# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Opinions on "The"

## toabetterworld

Hi all,

Is putting "The" on your headstock classic or conceited?
I would love to hear your opinions.

How many out there put "The" on their headstocks? If so why?

Thanks,
Michael

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## Dan Margolis

Do it.  Just don't do it in conversations when referring to yourself.  "The Dan".

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## DougC

I think Gibson went through a period where they wanted more status. It's probably a social trend back then. Nowadays, it seems conceited. 
I wonder at the naming of instruments. Just saw a guitar with the makers FIRST and last name on the headstock. Personally, I prefer naming the instrument after a little girl as the MayFlower mandolins did. The little girl was the maker's daughter and their name was Fowler, similar enough to Flower. A clever and charming idea.

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## AlanN

Isn't there a The Loar floating around  :Laughing:

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## crazymandolinist

Quite a few actually.

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## Spruce



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## Dave Cohen

It has always been my opinion that the "The" with an upper case T is completely pretentious.  Please note that I said 'opinion'.  Opinions are like bellybuttons; everyone has at least one, in some form or another.

I have always admired Rolfe Gerhardt for his complete lack of pretense.  He named his mandolins after a mythical creature, instead of after himself.  Inlays a phoenix on the headstock instead of a name in script.  I asked him once how he came up with the name.  He humbly replied that it was happenstance, after a day or so visiting the library.  Of course, the Phoenix name/logo does have a connection for him.  Phoenix mandolins was a new venture, starting after he had gotten out of the lutherie business for a while and had sold his original "Unicorn" name to another luthier.  So it was logical that "Phoenix" would rise out of the ashes of "Unicorn".  Anyway, Rolfe's humility is completely antithetical to someone like Bob Taylor, who calls his products "Taylors" and doesn't even bother to include the "guitar".

http://www.Cohenmando.com

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## Tavy

Let's not forget the '80 indie band "The The" - I never could get to grips with that name.

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## sunburst

I never understood "The" on the old Gibsons. It doesn't look pretentious, or conceited to me, it just looks confusing. Why "The"?
When I see "The" on an instrument other than a "The Gibson", it looks like someone is imitating "The Gibson".
No, I don't put "The" on my pegheads. It just seems superfluous, imitative, and unnecessary.

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## Charley wild

I agree with Dave. It seems pretentious. I could never figure it, really. I can deal with it on Gibsons, I guess, as it seems kind of quaint. On others I think it takes away from the instrument. it. It seems as mentioned, imitative. "The Loar" is the biggest culprit. It seems kind of silly. If I bought one I'd have to break the scroll knob off and gouge out the inlay! LOL

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## MikeEdgerton

Personally, I dig the concept of "The Gibson". I see it as nothing more than the marketing that was in play at the time, and honestly, it was used across many business lines, it wasn't unique to Gibson or to musical instruments. Not unlike the current advertising "green products" mantra that shows up on everything or "Low Fat" or the dozens of other advertising gems that have popped up over the years. When it went out of vogue Gibson dropped "The" from the instruments and only reintroduced it as a nod to the popularity of the Loar era mandolins.

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## JEStanek

It is The Traditional way to do it.  If you're out to build an instrument with that sound then maybe you could include the The.  If it doesn't feel like you don't do it.  None of my Instruments have a The on them. Only one has more than one letter on the headstock. Several don't have any words or letters.

Jamie

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## Gail Hester

When I was contemplating using "The" before my name Roger Siminoff explained to me the history of using "The" on instruments.  While his explaination will have to wait until he gets back from IBMA, as I understand it it has something to do with Antonio Stradivari and Stradivarius meaning/translating to "of The man" or "the work of The man".  Since this will not fit on a headstock it was shortened or translated into "The" and the name of the builder.  While it may seem pretentious or conceited I think that view is a misunderstanding of its origin/history in instrument making.

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## sunburst

> ...If you're out to build an instrument with that sound then maybe you could include the The...


Oh yeah, I didn't even think about the sound! I'll have to try a "The" and see how it sounds! :Wink:

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## Gail Hester

It's true John.  As soon as I started putting "The" on my mandolins they started sounding just like old Gibson's.  :Laughing:

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## MikeEdgerton

There you go, the reason to put "The" on your products.

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## David Newton

Well, I am "one and only" so why am I not "The Dave"?
No, really, take my wife, please.
On a more serious note, we who build look at each other and say "how pretentious", but I think that customers love this stuff. Back when I put nothing up there, customers always would ask for my name or something in pearl.

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## sunburst

Yep, that's how my name got there. I started out with no logo, but when I got my first actual order, one of the things the customer asked for was my name inlaid in the peghead. If it hadn't been for that, I think I would have chosen a business name, something like what Rolfe did, but either way I never understood "The" until now, and now that I know it's all about _sound_, well...

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## Jim Garber

> When I was contemplating using "The" before my name Roger Siminoff explained to me the history of using "The" on instruments.  While his explaination will have to wait until he gets back from IBMA, as I understand it it has something to do with Antonio Stradivari and Stradivarius meaning/translating to "of The man" or "the work of The man".  Since this will not fit on a headstock it was shortened or translated into "The" and the name of the builder.  While it may seem pretentious or conceited I think that view is a misunderstanding of its origin/history in instrument making.


I read this about three or four times... and ... huh?? Stradivari never put his name on his headstock and never worried about finding the room to do so. AFAIK Stradivarius is a Latinization of his name which, I suppose, was the pretentiousness of that time. I don't think it means "of The Stradivari".

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## Gail Hester

Jim, maybe I didn't explain it well but it's what I remembered from what Roger said.  It is the "us" as I understand that translates from Latin somehow to "of The man" or "the work of The man" that had something to do with Orville's use of "The".  Of course there's no name on the headstock of a Stradivarius :Smile:   My point was to try to pass on that according to Roger there was some historical connection to the use of "The" by Orville and others and that it was not just used to be pretentious, or conceited.

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## JEStanek

... or depending upon your desired sound, a reason not to add the _The_.  I don't get rattlesnake rattles or mojo (other than describing an old wood/finish odor).  If it were up to me, I would say pop a chili pepper and a bay leaf in the sound holes for spice and good seasoning instead.

Jamie

PS. What I poorly was trying to convey, is if you're attempting to replicate that traditional Gibson sound, why not include the traditional Gibson _The_. However, many folks feel that depending upon the name on the headstock (with or without the _The_ the sound is better.  Who knows!

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## Spruce

> Stradivari never put his name on his headstock....


Uhhh....

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## journeybear

I always thought Gibson's use of "The" wasn't conceited as much as it was a conceit - a way of saying it was "the authentic Gibson, accept no substitutes or lesser quality instrument." I don't know whether back then Gibson was regarded with the same reverence it is now, whether it was considered the best, the standard by which all others are measured, the way Martin guitars are. Or if the company used this as a ploy to get people to believe that.

But I do wish my 1917 A had that - the headstock looks pretty darn plain without it. Even just "Gibson" would be fine, as on my 1935 A-00 and ~1950 EM-150. I have no problem with the "The Gibson" on my 1916 H-2, nor did I on my 1966 F-12. And if The The had ever gone into luthiery, I would hope they would have had the noive to put "The The The" on their headstocks.  :Grin: 

 PS: Pretty sure -us is just a Latin masculine suffix, as in Claudius, Julius, Augustus, Romulus, Remus, etc.

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## Spruce

> I always thought Gibsons use of "The" wasnt conceited as much as it was a conceit - a way of saying it was the authentic Gibson, accept no substitutes or lesser quality instrument.


I'm doing a copy of the Loar A5 as we speak....

I think I'll go with "The The Gibson" in the usual spot....

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## MikeEdgerton

I've always wondered why somebody making a copy didn't do a "Not Gibson" on the headstock.

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## Steve Ostrander

I figured it was shorthand for *The Gibson Mandolin Guitar Manufacturing Company, Limited*, which was way too long to put on a peghead.

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## Steve Davis

I think it is redundant.

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## AlanN

Now, where did I put that pocketknife?  :Laughing:

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## Dave Cohen

To decide whether or not something is conceited or pretentious, one has to figure in contemporary usage.  I'd say that unless a mandolin made in the late 20th or early 21st centuries with  a "The Gibson" logo on it comes with a disclaimer or explanation, it is possible to view that logo as conceited or pretentious now, even if that might not have been the case in 1903.

At the time Gibson started using the "The Gibson" logo, things like that were common in advertising.  If you look at Richard Johnston's articles in _American Lutherie_ on the history of mandolin orchestras in America, you will find that Gibson's advertising was extremely aggressive.  They scurrilously attacked the Neapolitan or bowlback mandolin as "a dinosaur in a scientific age", and they were probably (not completely sure about it though) responsible for the derisive term "Tater bug" for Neapolitan mandolins, referring to the similarity of the bowls (with alternating strips of light and dark woods) to the striped carapace of the potato beetle.  Gibson got away with that without any flack back then, and the tradition of it in their product gives them an out to this day.  Had they started doing that that for the first time during the latter part of the 20th century, it might be a different story.  Something about Gail's/Siminoff's explanation is gnawing at me.  I'm not sure that the usage at the time was _that_ different from today's usage with regard to "The".

http://www.Cohenmando.com

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## Jim Garber

> Uhhh....


Well, technically it is the _back_ of the headstock and it isn't really his name, just translated into Latin.  Besides he didn't inlay it in pearl as "The Stradivari"   :Smile: 

Hieronymous Garberus

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## journeybear

> I've always wondered why somebody making a copy didn't do a "Not Gibson" on the headstock.


 :Laughing:  Really! Also all those fake F-9s  ... Well, I suppose whoever made them had a different motivation.  :Wink:

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## HoGo

> I've always wondered why somebody making a copy didn't do a "Not Gibson" on the headstock.


Like this? I drew this few years back when the flowerpot logo protection was the theme of day but actuaslly I was inspired by pic of real headstock with Not Gibson on the headstock.
I'm still thinking about using it some day...

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## sunburst

A little "The" potty humor here on The Cafe! Ha!  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

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## Mandolin Mick

I've always looked at "The" as schtick; Gibson schtick. None of my Gibsons have "The" on them ... but I wish they did.  :Wink:

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## djweiss

Bill Bussmann has previously done a "Not Gibson"...

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## JEStanek

Your wish has been granted by the great Bill Bussman in Old Wave Holler.


Jamie

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## MikeEdgerton

> Like this? I drew this few years back when the flowerpot logo protection was the theme of day but actuaslly I was inspired by pic of real headstock with Not Gibson on the headstock.
> I'm still thinking about using it some day...


If I look hard enough I might be able to find that picture. In the back of my mind I remember doing one.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Your wish has been granted by the great Bill Bussman in Old Wave Holler.


I take it back, it was Bill. I remember cutting and pasting a headstock to change what it said, I can't remember what it ended up saying.

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## bmac

The followed by a surname is certainly found in Scotland where the head of the clan is often referred to as "The (surname)". For instance in my own case the head of the clan can be properly referred to as "the McNeil". or in another case "The Munro". It is certainly no longer in common usage but most likely still carries a vestige of prestige for some.

I would assume that is the origin and meaning of the term "The Gibson" as a trade name. The adverb "The " give the name additional punch and status.

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## John Adrihan

To me, a beginner in mandolin, bluegrass and all things incorporated.... "the Gibson" is cool. anything else after llike "the hester" not so much. And that is not to pick on Hester specifically.  However just the last name would be Fine. After all there is only one "THE"

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## Spruce

> The adverb "The " give the name additional punch and status.


Ohhh, I get it now....  

The folks at Gibson back then were Scotch drinkers....   :Wink:

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## theCOOP

I just want to go on record as stating that I've been using "theCOOP" on the internet since the early 90s, long before I ever heard of a The Gibson, The Epiphone, The Loar or The The.

So if I happen to ever build a mandolin and put theCOOP on it, it's jusy coincidence  :Wink:

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## JEStanek

I would take a new The Hester over an old The Gibson (with mmmaaaybe 200 or so exceptions only so I could sell it to get a The Hester and afford my kids' college) any day.  :Smile: 

Jamie

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## John Gardinsky

Dang Spruce, I got a chuckle out of that bottle and the "master" model scroll. Thanks, John

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## Mike Snyder

Believe me, I've played one. If any mandolin deserves the "The", it's a Hester. They have "The" sound.

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## John Soper

Yup, some things, even with a "The" in front are not meant for the macro lens...

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## journeybear

> The adverb "The " give the name additional punch and status.


For the record, "the" is not an adverb (modifier of verbs, adverbs, and adjectives) but an adjective (modifier of nouns), actually a special case of adjective - an article, of which there are but three: a, an, and the. OK, class dismissed.  :Wink: 

I like the Scottish and Scotch observations. I think Glenlivet is also called "The Glenlivet" on the label. There are probably others. I think it is meant to convey a level of pride by the makers in their product.

Yeah, as I suspected: The Balvenie, The Dalmore, The Famous Grouse, The Singleton. As far as I'm concerned, there are surely more better Scotches without the "The" than with. But don't draw an analogy from that - I'm still a Gibson guy.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Rick Turner

"a gibson guy", not "The Gibson Guy"?

"Only a Gibson is Good Enough..."

'nuff said?

"The" is rugged, individualistic!  Like "the Marlboro Man"!   Oh, he died of lung cancer...

No, "the lung cancer"!  Like "the plague".  Or "the clap".  Now there's a p'head logo...

p...un, intended...

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## journeybear

> "a gibson guy", not "The Gibson Guy"?


Yes, indeed! That is correct, kind sir. I would _never_ be so presumptuous as to utilize the definite article in reference to myself.  :Wink:  I am one of many, not the one and only.  :Mandosmiley:  Though I believe I _would_ be correct in calling myself "The Southernmost Mandolinist," as far as I know a statement of verifiable fact. But humility does not permit me to refer to myself thusly, as I have not earned this; it is mere happenstance.

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## JEStanek

You can't get one at The Wall-Mart as we say around here....

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## dang

I thought they threw "The" in front of gibson so when you carve out "gibson" with a pocket knife it still had some letters up there...

I hope my luthier is pretentious enough to think he/she is the best and put "The" in front of their name!

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## Rroyd

Bill Bussman also made a mandolin with the peghead inlaid with "The One."  I don't know if there was only one "The One," or if he made several that said they were "The One."  Hopefully he made only one "The One."

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## journeybear

Presumably the second "One" would have been "The Two". Or "The Second One." Or "The One #2." Eh, just a big ol' can o' worms.

Jamie - Do you take The 422 to get to The Wal-Mart?  :Smile:  Boy, I'll tell ya - I feel something was lost when people on the East Coast started referring to highways that way; that's a West Coast custom. I-95 is I-95, not "The 95" or "The I-95." Sorry, that's just the way I feel. When Buffalo Springfield said, in "Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing," "Who's coming home on old 95?" I could relate, having done that myself hundreds of times. Never could figure why they would say that, being a California band, but Neil Young may have been living in Toronto at the time. Not that I-95 goes there, but maybe vaguely in the vicinity. Or maybe New York. I dunno. Oh, I guess it's just one of those unexplained mysteries of the unexplained.  :Confused:

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## Duc Vu

> Presumably the second "One" would have been "The Two". Or "The Second One." Or "The One #2."


"The Other."

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## Rick Turner

Journeybear, my Hobart, Tasmania students and mandolin playing friends would laugh at the thought that you claim to be "the Southernmost Mandolinist" without a modifier...  And I'll bet I could find a mandolin player on Antarctica via my pal Henry Kaiser who took one of my guitars literally to the South Pole.  It gets no Southerner than that!

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## Steve Sorensen

This is "The Best" string ever.  Love it ! ! !
Steve

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## journeybear

I apologize.  :Redface:  So many things around here are called "Southernmost" it becomes a nearly meaningless designation and a kind of in-joke. Of course I meant "Southernmost Mandolinist In The Continental United States." That is rather a mouthful, though, isn't it? But SMITCUS doesn"t really cut it.

Henry Kaiser would count - if he played mandolin! The _real_ Southernmost mandolinist would be our own man dough nollij, next time he goes to work in Antarctica.

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## Mark Franzke

When I started building, I used "The Flinthills" as my logo, having grown up on the eastern edge of the flinthills in Kansas, and it is where I plan to be scattered some day. After several requests from customers and some confusion with the Flint Hill instrument from Saga, I started putting my name on the headstock and now just build under my own name. I just use my last name without the "The." I have a drawer full (maybe 8) "The"s left over if someone wants them.

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## Stephanie Reiser

I much prefer just using my last name.
But a couple of years ago I built for myself an F-4 copy complete with full flowerpot,
and for some reason I was moved to inlay 'The' before my name. I do not regret it,
and would not do it again unless someone asked for it. With the added word the overall
font size needs to be smaller, thus less detailed.

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## zookster

This is one comical thread, y'all.

I am at the other extreme.  I have never put my name on a headstock, but chose instead to use a specific inlay as my trademark.  If I did use my name, I certainly would not put a "The" with it, although I think it was just marketing on Gibson's part as a way to distinguish their product.  

However, I do own an old italian violin with "The Loaravarious" on the label......

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## Spruce

> This is one comical thread, y'all.


Yeah, it's amazing what you can read at The Mandolin Cafe...

Like _The_ David Grisman Interview...   :Wink: 

Let's face it, we've all got The The Virus....

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## Jim MacDaniel

> Oh yeah, I didn't even think about the sound! I'll have to try a "The" and see how it sounds!


lol --  but make sure you call it "The Hamlett", since "The John" might yield an entirely different sound than you are looking for.

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## journeybear

Oh no, you didn't just say that!  :Laughing:   :Crying:   :Laughing:   :Crying:  I'm sure you've seen them, and I'm not about to post _any_ of them, but if you google image toilet guitar you will see a ton of items along those lines.  :Whistling:

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## JonZ

I say kick it up a notch: _"The Amazing...", "The Incredible..."_
Or try false humility: _"Just a..."_

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## Ed Goist

> I say kick it up a notch: _"The Amazing...", "The Incredible..."_
> Or try false humility: _"Just a..."_


 :Laughing:  _"Yet another..."_ would be funny.

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## DougC

I still think naming an instrument after your little daughter is very cool. But for humor's sake she might have had a nick name like 'potato bug'. Or maybe a pony tail logo like a Nike 'swoop'.  I know of a mandolin called a V8. Name them after cars, what a great idea...

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## ellisppi

:Grin: I'm going to come out with a line of Loar copies that say just "The" After all that's my initials.

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## man dough nollij

> I'm going to come out with a line of Loar copies that say just "The" After all that's my initials.


Maybe your great-great-grandfather worked with Lloyd, so he got his initials above the "Gibson". Now we know the answer.

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## Andrew DeMarco

Wouldn't it be more accurate if the headstock used the indefinite article, "A GIBSON" as opposed to "THE GIBSON".... I mean, heck, it is a Gibson, it's not the Gibson, because there isn't just one. Sheesh.  :Confused:  :Sleepy:

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## Mandolin Mick

I take that back ... my Gibsons do say "The Gibson" ... on the tail piece ...  :Smile:

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## mando_steve

> Is putting "The" on your headstock classic or conceited?


The worst example of the "The" has to go to when Ohio State changed their name to The Ohio State University. Now that's arrogant if you ask me, but then again I'm a Hoosier. The Gibson (and The Fonz for that matter) just sounds right to me. The Ohio State University...not so much.

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## dwhite

I'm not exactly a role model, but if I ever build a mandolin from scratch, I'll inlay "The Juan" on the headstock.

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## journeybear

Perhaps that should be "_El_ Juan," or "El Uno."  :Wink: 

mando_steve - I agree. That is weird, and in Amish parlance, prideful. It seems every year more and more NFL players add the "The" to their college names in their introductory bits at the start of games, presumably to emulate OSU. I think the worst is University Of Miami, which players refer to as just "The U." As if everyone is supposed to know what that means. Apparently not Utah.

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## DougC

I just learned that 'the' is usually used instead of 'my' in Germanic languages. So one would say 'the hand' and not 'my hand'. I think they would also say 'the Gibson' instead of just 'Gibson'.  A lot of folks were recent immigrants back in the 1920's.

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## Michael Nelson

I'd like to have one that says "The Point", so whenever someone mutters "What's the point?"  I could just point at it.

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## AlanN

You go to a restaurant.
You look at the menu.
You tell the waiter: "I'll have the steak."

I rest my (ugh) case.

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## Timbofood

OK, had to add one little piece of sillyness to this pot (so to speak).
There is somewhere in this great land a piece of construction so close to an F-5 that the builder did indeed inlay,
Wait for it...
"A Gibson"  I know, I saw it, long ago.
PS- Note the hanging dot on my inlay, people still do a double take then, snicker

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## Jim MacDaniel

Personally, I think it would be cool to have "The Dude" on my headstock...

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## woodwizard

The "The" was not unique to the times back then when Gibson started doing this. I'm sure a lot of other businesses were using a "The" to sort highlight their original product. It was not uncommon. Gibson just sort of carried it on and it became a tradition with Gibson. IMHO

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## JEStanek

You can already point to points on your mandolin (assuming you're not playing an A style or bowlback)

Jamie

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## siminoff

Wow... hard to believe that such a tiny article as "the" gets so much good press. To clarify what Gail said I said: "Stradivari" was the man's name. "Stradivarius" is a Latin declension (fourth, genitive) that means "of the man" or "the..." according to how it is used in the sentence structure. So, when Stradivari put his name on his label, and wrote it as "Stradivarius" it meant "The Stradivari" or "Of [the man] Stradivari." The popular violin magazine _The Strad_ echos this naming convention. The use of this declension was somewhat common in the day and occasionally used by jewelers, artisans, and furniture makers both abroad and here in the US. It appears that Orville was putting himself on the cutting edge with Antonio. He could have been really bold and called his instruments "Gibsonius" - then where would we have been???

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## Rick Turner

Roger, how about "Loarius"?

Or, as Dr. Seuss might write, "The Lorius Uproarious"...  

Just don't look it up in your Thesaurius...

For which I'll be cursed hard and censorious

But I'll wake soon quite glorious.

With an instrument most stentorious...

The Gibson Mandoloarious

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## oldwave maker

Before the original owner got crazy and carved out the words. He should have left the "Not". Evidently autographed by Earl 'THE Pearl' Monroe, a distant relative of Bill, who played for a few years with a quintet out of Winston-Salem. When the peghead scroll  broke off it was reattached slightly off kilter with duct tape and a rusty horseshoe nail.
After the body scroll was amputated and covered with bloody bandages, it became the first "disturbed" master model. Hope to get pics up by halloween. The scroll now resides in a glass jar in the shop with a blue Rigel scroll....

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## Mandoviol

Well, in some foreign languages, the article "the" precedes proper nouns, even if it seems unnecessary.  In colloquial German, for instance, the article is regularly applied to names (i.e. _der Klaus_ or _die Sarah_), so perhaps "The Gibson" isn't terribly outlandish.

In Ancient Greek, you have 24 ways to say "the" based on noun case, number, and gender; these are also applied to proper nouns (thus ο̒ Χαιρεας when referring to a gent named Chaireas, η for a woman in the nominative--the articles change based on the case of the noun, but I think "The Gibson" is nominative).  Thus, we could have ο̒ Γιβσωνος if the ancient Athenians were mandolinists, and it wouldn't seem weird at all.

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## Dan Hoover

you guy's are sounding like all old and stuff... "The" is old school..now day's it's "Da" i'd go wit dat..know what i'm sayin?  :Grin:

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## journeybear

True dat ... but wuzzup wit dat? You sayin' it oughta be "Da Gibson," like "Da Bears?"  :Confused: 

I don' t'ink so!  :Laughing:

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## red7flag

I went to a school outside of Philadelphia called "The (pronounced Thee) Haverford School" and they were very emphatic of that pronunciation.  To say pretentious goes with out saying.  Haverford was right next to Haverford College which by all rights was THEE Haverford school.  (Tongue in cheek)

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## Andy Fielding

We did a whole thread on this earlier this year. 

As far as I remember, research eventually revealed that "The Gibson" was just Gibson's way of shortening "_The_ Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Mfg. Co, Ltd." People were still pretty formal back in the 19th century. (They even included periods on signs, e.g. "Smith's Bank.") So including "The" doesn't seem like such a stretch, given the time period. It's also clear that Gibson's subsequent use of "The" was random (rather than, for example, reserving it for its higher-end models).

What cracks me up is how other, modern-day mandolin makers have fallen in with the "The". Clearly silly, IMHO, unless they mean it as a joke. 

I'd also apply the "silly" label to how other makers, large and small, feel compelled to copy Gibson's inlay patterns, producing their own "Fern" models, etc. This might make sense if they were trying to imply that their instruments sounded as good as, or similar to, Gibsons---but why on earth do this with instruments that command _more_ than Gibsons? If you make (or have enough dough to buy) something even _better_ than a Gibson, why slavishly copy a Gibson inlay? Wouldn't that be like Rolls Royce putting Mercedes hood ornaments on their cars (lawsuits not withstanding)?

If we were talking about office workers buying staplers, it'd be different... But don't you think we musicians have a bit more imagination than to go around being the stringed-instrument equivalent of Elvis impersonators?   :Laughing:

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## MikeEdgerton

> We did a whole thread on this earlier this year. 
> 
> As far as I remember, research eventually revealed that "The Gibson" was just Gibson's way of shortening "_The_ Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Mfg. Co, Ltd."....


I looked at that thread when this one was started. I don't see anyone other than you coming to that conclusion and really don't see any research backing that up.

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## journeybear

Hmmm? Actually, that factoid was submitted by Darryl Wolfe, who seems to me a reliable source. Admittedly, he was talking about the shortening of the company name and only inferred by coincidence the dropping of the "The" on the logo around the same time, but still ...

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## MikeEdgerton

That's not research or proof. Other companies referred to their products as "The" in that era.

Here's something to take a look at. It's a 1903 Gibson catalog. Note the "The Gibson" all over it on almost every page. Note the heading that says "The Gibson Mandolins". Note the headings that say "The Gibson Guitars". It's pretty apparent that they are using "The Gibson" as a means of making their instruments stand out in the market, not simply as a shortening of the corporate name. Not just another mandolin, "The Gibson" mandolin.

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## Martin Stevens

What's funny is that "The" never bugged me until I read this thread... and now I can't stand it :P

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## journeybear

Thanks for posting that, Mike. You sure are the searching-est guy hereabouts. (Is your middle name "Google?") Yesirree, the "The" is all over that catalog, though for some reason they left off "The Gibson" on the mandola and mando-cello pages, and at the top of the first guitar page (#20), where the Style L is just called "The Guitar," having left off "Gibson."  :Disbelief: 

Anyway, it is nice to have something real to look at, rather than surmise or speculate. I don't know what Darryl was using to back up his assertion concerning the dropping of the "The" three decades later; I just assumed it was reliable.

And mstevens - you are so right. Now it has become "The" elephant in the room!  :Wink:

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...though for some reason they left off "The Gibson" on the mandola and mando-cello pages, and at the top of the first guitar page (#20), where the Style L is just called "The Guitar," having left off "Gibson."...


Probably a typo.  :Wink:

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## Darryl Wolfe

The usage of "The" before nouns generally refers to a singular and finite object that may be a singular element from a group.  In this case "The" one and only Gibson Guitar and Mandolin Company.  In the case of a singular mandolin with The Gibson on the peghead...."The one and only genuine Gibson mandolin.  A quick study shows this strain of grammar to be more prevalent around the turn of the century (100 years ago)  Such as I went to "The" J. C. Penny store instead of I went to J. C. Penny's

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## MikeEdgerton

Singer also advertised their sewing machines as The Singer sewing machine. White advertised their iceboxes as The White icebox. It was common to denote your product as special. Gibson just went the extra step and put it on the peghead. Gibson built a great product but marketing is what kept them alive.

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## Bernie Daniel

> The worst example of the "The" has to go to when Ohio State changed their name to The Ohio State University. Now that's arrogant if you ask me, but then again I'm a Hoosier. The Gibson (and The Fonz for that matter) just sounds right to me. The Ohio State University...not so much.


But that one makes sense!  I was going to mention that also -- because The Ohio State University IS a "The" -- i.e., the only one?

You will feel better after the football season. 

OTOH considering last weekend's debacle I think this is The Michigan State's year. (<:   Something that will make my wife happy -- her being a Spartan (Spartanesa?)

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## AlanN

The Master Mandolin 1923 advertisement re-print

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## MikeEdgerton

"The" Master Mandolin from (no "The") Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Company.

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## AlanN

I love the 'Try it for free' checkbox.

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## MikeEdgerton

Perhaps we should print it out and send it in with the box checked....

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## Bill Snyder

If you have any luck with that let us know.  :Smile:

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## MikeEdgerton

They'd probably just send me a new one, not a Loar.  :Wink:

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## banjoboy

Sure lot's of opinions, speculation, and the such on this thread. Maybe we should just move on and call this "The End"

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## MikeEdgerton

Threads never end when people suggest that they end.

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## Dale Ludewig

Yeah, that suggestion is just another part of the thread.

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## AlanN

In the key of B natchul:

Threading alone in the moonlight
Hoping this thing goes away.
Wondrin about the 'The' uhhhh 
as wrote on the Mandolin Cafe.

- with utmost apols to Big Mon....

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## D.E.Williams

Great thread.  I think someone should start a mando company with the words "The Gibbon" instead....and I'm not monkeying around.
 :Grin:

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## MikeEdgerton

Not quite The Gibbon

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## man dough nollij

That's rich-- Givson says to "beware of imitation"...

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## MikeEdgerton

You've gotta love the Givson logo too.

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## nobullmando74

Reminds me of the Hammacher catalog. Example : The best nose hair trimmer.  :Laughing:

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## Andy Fielding

> Singer also advertised their sewing machines as The Singer sewing machine. White advertised their iceboxes as The White icebox. It was common to denote your product as special. Gibson just went the extra step and put it on the peghead.


That's not research or proof. Other companies referred to their products as "The" in that era.

Okay, I couldn't resist quoting you back at yourself---but my point is, what you said was just as speculative as the speculative stuff I say (that is, the stuff I said that inspired you to say it was speculative). 

Indeed, there's a whole lot of speculation going on here. Of course, it was speculative of me to say _that_, too. I just presented it in a more assertive, less speculative way, so it may not have seemed quite as speculative as everything else. As far as the final, unequivocal determination goes of whether it was speculative or not, I'll leave that your speculation.




> The Gibson (and The Fonz for that matter) just sounds right to me. The Ohio State University...not so much.


Yeah, it's not the same at all.

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## journeybear

Well, I heard it on "Jeopardy" so it must be so. In today's episode, in the middle of the annual college championship, Johnny Gilbert announced the name of one contestant as being from "The Ohio State University." Owing to the game show's reputation for accuracy and diligent fact-checking, I assume this reflects not just a marketing scheme or point of pride among its athletes, but the actual name of the institution. A brief glance at the school's website bears this out, though I am just a little mystified at its url being http://www.osu.edu/ and not http://www.tosu.edu/  :Grin: 

Yeah, I know, FWIW ... Still, it's one thing to hear a football player say it and another to hear Johnny Gilbert say it. Seems more real somehow, with his assured speaking voice.

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## Big Joe

We build using the middle name of my middle son.  We like the name and think it sounds good on instruments.  "Clayton" is a good name meaning "of the earth" and kind of fits our thoughts.  We also like a bit of anonymity is a small way.  We really did not want to use our last name.  We have been building under that name since the early 90's.  We have not used "The" yet...there is only so much headstock space.  Besides, "The Big Joe" on the headstock would not be so "conceited" as just plain weird! :0 .

"Just don't do it in conversations when referring to yourself. "The Dan". 

My grandson, whom we are raising, is named Marshall.  He referred to himself as "The Marshall" or "The Marshy" for several years until about 6th grade.  We always thought it was a bit humorous.  Great kid with great sense of humor.

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## Dale Ludewig

But there is "The Donald".  I don't know if he has a sense of humor.  He likes to fire people evidently, although I've never watched the show.

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## journeybear

Pretty sure he doesn't call himself that; more of a tabloid tag. At any rate, he ain't MY role model!  :Laughing:

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## MikeEdgerton

Actually the tag "The Donald" came from his former spouse. That's what she referred to him as.

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## JEStanek

Don't forget The Dude.
"Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm The Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing."

Apologies to Lynn, El Duderino -enbostel.

Jamie

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## journeybear

> Actually the tag "The Donald" came from his former spouse. That's what she referred to him as.


OK, if you say so. No mention in The Article in The Wiki, but if that is The Case, I give it The Thumbs Up.  :Wink:  Never have understood why he has generated so much interest and tabloid fodder.  :Confused:  He may be fabulously wealthy and noticeable, but if he played mandolin he would be more interesting. To me, anyway.  :Grin:

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## MikeEdgerton

The link was just to her information. She always referred to him as The Donald in interviews. 

Check this link under Personal Life.

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## journeybear

Oh no, please! I believe you. I have no need to know the origin of The Moniker. Regardless, the tabloids sure picked it up and ran with it, and it is now part of the culture. Perhaps I should say "the culture."  :Wink:

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## Big Joe

Maybe it's just "THE" thing to do  :Smile:  .

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## Rick Cadger

You guys must be _soooo_ busy...

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## Dale Ludewig

Actually, I think it should be 'the guys'.  Now, I must be back to The Work at hand.  For now.  Or if you prefer, The Business at hand.

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## Shelagh Moore

Think I'll just put "The" on the headstock next time I build one!

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## BBK

I believe "The" was a part of Gibson's history and not anyone else's.  Therefore, I believe unless it's a Gibson, leave "The" off the instrument.  My Newson looks just fine without it.

Bryce

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## brianf

It depends on when they started to use the, the.  I always thought that it was used to distinguish between the models they had made up until the one they considered to be the pinnacle of their quality.  So, of all the models, it became "The Gibson", meaning that there was none better.

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## MikeEdgerton

They must have reached that pinnacle quickly.

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