# Music by Genre > Jazz/Blues Variants, Bossa, Choro, Klezmer >  Good Blues Mandolin?

## shiloh

Hi all,
Any recommendations for a good blues mandolin? What mandolin do you blues players play?
I have an F4, an F5, a Weber Aspen (A with oval hole), and a 1925 Lyon & Healy. Obviously any of these would work - they are all mandolins -  but how do I get "that" sound? A National?

Hire Rich DelGrosso? :-)

(and of course listen practice listen practice....)

Thanks,

Jill
San Diego

----------

cayuga red

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

Jill, Rich used to play a Gibson A4.  He currently plays a National RM-1 and a Gibson H1 Mandola.  I think any of the Teens tubby Gibsons have a great Blues sound.

----------


## fatt-dad

I'd also suggest a paddlehead Gibson or National.

f-d

----------


## hank

It's been a while back but in an email Rich commented that my paddlehead A-4 was his favorite mandolin.  In some of his videos though he makes comments about how old and cantankerous the old tuners can be.  The National RM-1 mandolin and Takamine acoustic guitars seem to be the go to stage workhorses of a lot of pros.

----------


## hank

A once had someone comment that my 1913 A-4 sounded more banjo like than my 23 F-4. It's a strange way to describe the difference but after some thought, I think I understand where she was coming from.  Different strings can tweak the kind of sound you want as well.  I've tried EXP 75s, Sam Bush Monel and ghs LBS250s on my A-4 all very different but great in different ways.

----------


## liestman

I would go with a 1913 or 1914 Gibson A (Fiddlers Green in Austin, Texas has one of each) or a National RM1. Really different beasts but both types are really great for blues to my ear.

----------


## shiloh

Well, you all confirmed what I suspected. I had a fantastic sounding Gibson A paddle head years ago but I never got used to the "fat" feeling of the neck (the neck profile). Based on what I've read I bet the National feels a lot like the paddle head. Have any of you played a National?  (Eddie, I don't suppose you have one?) I was looking for a Gibson A snakehead just to get the thinner neck profile - still saving my pennies. If I delve into playing the blues more, would it be best to just wait until I find the right National?

Jill

----------


## liestman

I have a paddlehead and an RM1. The RM1 has a slightly wider neck (1 1/4" nut) that is thinner, with a C shaped profile. It is less beefy in feel for sure. If you get one, be sure someone sets it up properly, as they are sent from the factory with a super high action. The bridge will need to be lowered and it also helps to have a strip of hard leather glued to the bottom of the tailpiece, to provide some break angle over the bridge.

----------


## Londy

My Collings A MTO has a mean sound for blues.

----------

cayuga red

----------


## fatt-dad

truss rod snakehead Gibsons have thinner nuts. They do have a bit different sound though.  (I do know where there's a blacksnake mandolin for sale, sfi.)

f-d

----------


## hank

If the snakeheads sound similar to the F-4 of those years it's a more refined, balanced, less in your face kinda sound.  You can make any instrument sound blue but resonators and paddleheads are more commonly used.

----------


## Spruce

Jill, if you happen to be driving north, go check out the new Recording King resonator mando at Kirk Sand's shop in Laguna Beach--I think it's called the Guitar Shoppe?
I picked it up awhile back for a strum, and wound up playing it for a 1/2 hour...
Great sound and playability, and it would really compliment the other mandos in your quiver...
I think it had a 550 pricetag on it or so, so pretty reasonable too...
Luck!

----------

cayuga red

----------


## hank

I have/had similar feelings about the old Gibson neck size and fretboard string spacing.  I've brought this up in a couple other threads but I resolved most of the problem on mine by replacing the nut with one that string spacing was more modern F5 like.  Amazingly the extra width of the neck and board are not very noticeable visually or when playing.  I kept everything else stock so it still gets a little frisky in the upper positions but still much easier for me to play now.  I have the original nut stashed in the case in case the next caretaker prefers the original layout.  Mine is a Blackface collector original condition with a great finger rest and bridge setup so I didn't want to go all out with a modern bridge but a players version could be made even more playable.  This is just another option if you know where an old Gibson in rough shape needs a home. That Recording King Spruce recommended sounds worth a little road trip fun though.

----------


## k0k0peli

I almost feel inspired to buy another Rogue RM-100A for US$46 shipped and convert it to a bluesy resophonic axe. I gargled *how to build a resonator mandolin* and found some usable projects. Cut an 8-inch circle from the front (bye-bye, f-holes!) and insert a resonator. Strip the finish from the remaining body and stain it black. Yeah, Rogues can be good test-beds for franken-mando experiments.

----------


## Spruce

> I gargled...


I'm stealing that...    :Wink:

----------


## sgarrity

The cool thing about the blues is that the instrument really doesn't matter very much. That being said, I like my RM-1  :Mandosmiley:

----------


## ald

Funny some people complain about the old Gibson necks being too thick. That is one of the things I love about the instrument. Prior to my old Gibson I had a Japanese copy of the peardrop-style Gibson. The thin neck always felt uncomfortable to me and the sound was very thin. The old Gibson has a lovely neck and a fulsome sound. The action is really great as well. When I first had it, the instrument's playability was a bit difficult compared with the Japanese copy one but I had someone work very carefully on the nut, used lighter strings and now it plays like a a dream.

----------


## journeybear

I'm with the proponents of old Gibson A models. I would have chimed in earlier but it seemed plenty of others were already extolling their virtues. But there are a couple of things I wanted to add. 

First, I don't understand the criticism of their necks. I've played them a lot - my first and my current two, with a thirty year gap filled by my late lamented F-12 - and I've never had any problem with any of them on that score. Maybe I'm just used to them, maybe my hands are big enough it's not an issue, maybe I'm too busy thinking about any number of other, more pressing matters while playing  :Wink:  - I dunno, this just doesn't seem to make a difference to me.

More importantly, I like the fuller low-end response and overall resonance or these vintage instruments. The mandolin is pitched a bit high for what most people are used to hearing in the blues, so having a good strong push in the lower end of the instrument's spectrum is important. This is even more so if you're playing solo, as it's only so low you can go.  :Cool:

----------


## k0k0peli

> More importantly, I like the fuller low-end response and overall resonance or these vintage instruments. The mandolin is pitched a bit high for what most people are used to hearing in the blues, so having a good strong push in the lower end of the instrument's spectrum is important. This is even more so if you're playing solo, as it's only so low you can go.


 Two things. 1) If more low-end is desired, why not restring a 4th or 5th lower? 2) A thread on Ukulele Underground on instruments "opening up" led me to gargle for answers. I found this great comment:




> *Re: Wooden Instruments opening up over time?*
> 
> It is a real phenomenon. Its down to tensions in the the wood of the soundboard relaxing. As the tensions relax the resonant frequencies of the soundboard drop, very like the pitch of a string dropping as the string stretches. It happens quite fast in the first few months, but countinues at an ever decreasing rate through the life of the instrument.
> 
> Whether it is a good thing or not depends on the instrument - with bowed strings, as the soundboard resonance drops you get more of the fundamental, and a warmer tone. At the same time you start to lose the high frequencies but the string is energized with a saw tooth waveform by the bow so you never lose them completely, and the sound keeps improving with age. With plucked strings there is a marked improvement over the first few months, as the bass kicks in, but from there on they get worse as you lose high frequencies and the sound gets duller. Classical guitarists often consider their instruments to be at their peak between one and five years old, and played out after 10 years. Some go to the extent of getting the soundboard taked off a good guitar and re-barred to put tension back and freshen it up.
> 
> There was an interesting experiment that someone on Maestronet suggested a few years ago and I tried. If you take a cheap new student violin and very carefully press firmly all over the soundboard with your thumbs - listening and pressing just hard enough to hear a scrunchy sound as the wood fibres start to part (dont press hard enough to break it!) the sound instantly opens up and it sounds like a very much better fiddle - the difference it made absolutely astounded me.


 So another way to get improved low-end response would be to squish your mandos. Gently, now...

----------


## journeybear

Well, sure, one could mess around with detuning. Or one could get a mandola, or octave mandolin, or tenor guitar, or some other such like instrument. The question was about a mandolin, though. And though it doesn't hurt to consider alternatives and thinking outside the box, it's also well to stick within the parameters of the original consideration.

When I got my mandola, one of the reasons was to have access to a low E rather than just suggest it. That note shows up a lot in the blues, especially when guitars are involved. What I hadn't thought through was that playing in E on mandola means using what looks like the B scale on the mandolin. I'ts not a very flexible scale and has no open strings. Unless you want to count the minor third G (I don't).

----------


## k0k0peli

> Well, sure, one could mess around with detuning. Or one could get a mandola, or octave mandolin, or tenor guitar, or some other such like instrument. The question was about a mandolin, though. And though it doesn't hurt to consider alternatives and thinking outside the box, it's also well to stick within the parameters of the original consideration.


I did not suggest other instruments -- just adapt a mando. I don't think we'll get much 'depth' playing in E with *GDAE* tuning in a mandolin's soprano voice. Detuned three semitones puts it in a better range -- and if Yank Rachell could do it, so can anyone! Yes, that's a blues mandolin tradition, like retuning a guitar for bottleneck playing. I should buy some heavy gauge strings, tune my old Kay down, and dedicate it as a blues machine.

----------

DavidKOS, 

Nick Gellie

----------


## mandroid

I have a 1922 A with an aluminum upper bridge piece, apparently Mr DelGrosso did also. 

 mandolin banjos  are useful in this genre too..

 cigar box bodied ones  will  be close to the roots of the music.  :Whistling:

----------


## John Soper

Ry Cooder used an F2 for most of his early mandolin work, I believe.  Steve James used a black snakehead A.  And Journeybear, Yank Rachell tuned down a minor third, so his "G" chord was an "E"... and I think some of the other Chicago blues mandolin players did also.

----------


## bluesmandolinman

That was a F-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdHXqAvOfXg




> Ry Cooder used an F2 for most of his early mandolin work, I believe.


@Scott, something changed so I don´t succeed to embed the videos instead of just copying the link....hmm

----------

Bob A

----------


## journeybear

OK. I stand corrected. Slouched, actually, but no matter. I didn't know that about Yank and probably should have - and would have, if I ever thought to check what key he was in or played along with his recordings. 

But the OP is still looking for an answer as to what mandolin might be best suited for the blues, regardless of how it's tuned. I've already stated my preference, as have others. I would like to point out that Yank Rachell, one of the all-time greats, used a mandolin that wasn't of exceptionally high quality. It may well be more important *how* you play than *what* you play.

----------

hank, 

k0k0peli, 

Nick Gellie

----------


## darrylicshon

Nice sound on that video

----------


## journeybear

Speaking of which ...



It's only the best.  :Mandosmiley: 

There's a thread in Software Support that includes clear instructions on how to embed videos.

PS: If you use the "Reply With Quote" option to this post, and compare the embed code with the actual youtube code, you'll see what's needed for it to work.

----------

Richard J

----------


## JeffD

> The cool thing about the blues is that the instrument really doesn't matter very much. That being said, I like my RM-1


I think that is true. The RM-1 really does add some magic to blues and ragtime that is not added by any other mandolin.

Setting aside the resonator, I am not sure an arch top is really needed, be it A or F oval holes or ff holes. The arch top sound doesn't detract, certainly, but its not a requirement, and may just add cost. What blues I have messed around with seemed to sound really nice on my Weber Aspen II.

----------


## k0k0peli

> But the OP is still looking for an answer as to what mandolin might be best suited for the blues, regardless of how it's tuned. I've already stated my preference, as have others. I would like to point out that Yank Rachell, one of the all-time greats, used a mandolin that wasn't of exceptionally high quality. It may well be more important *how* you play than *what* you play.


 And that's the answer! Or a big part of it, anyhow. Vintage blasters, or old cheap boxes detuned, or Nationals and other resonators, or banjo-mandolins, or cigar-box and other fretted or fretless electric variants, or a custom job with a neck length between mandolin and mandola, or any decent mando in standard or deviant tuning -- played well. 

Are any of those tools *best* for the blues? I guess that depends on skill, ears, and attitude -- the type of blues desired. Are we channeling Country Henry Thomas or Mississippi John Hurt or Robert Johnson or Yank Rachell or Libby Cotton or Muddy Waters or BB King or JB Renoir or whom? Are all sorts of different blues sounds in the tradition.

----------


## JimRichter

Any good mandolin works.  Do not get confused and think that the pawn shop special or a National has to be the one.  It sort of works with electric guitars due to pickups but a good acoustic instrument can be made to sound like almost anything.  A cheap pawnshop toy is a one trick pony.

----------

chasray, 

DavidKOS, 

John Soper, 

Nick Gellie

----------


## Matt

Hi Jill! 

I've spent most of my limited mandolin time and effort teaching myself blues tunes. We've conversed before and it seems you've attended Rich DelGrasso seminars. That's hard to add to, but one "bluesy" tip to try is down tuning 3 half-tones on each string as has been mentioned already (low to high...E, B F#, C#). Your Bridger would sound really good set up like this. I've also tried nickel plated strings like emando sells. So far I have not gone to heavier gauge strings.

I've gone a little crazy with electric mando's too. A Harmony Batwing, a Red Diamond electric from the '80's and an Old Town EM200 that I purchased from Martin Stillion. This in a quest for good bluesy tone!

Anyone with tips on sheet or tabbed mando blues tunes aside from Steve James and Mr. DelGrosso would be welcome.

Thank you,
Matt

----------


## WW52

I once had an old Strad-o-lin that I thought of as a good blues mandolin.  Easy playing mandolin with a big, loud, dry tone.  It sounded to me like something out of an old recording.

----------

DavidKOS

----------


## Marc Woodward

I usually use my 1920 F2 for blues. I prefer that fatter ringing sound of a round hole. Whether slide is preferable too is arguable lol!




Marc

----------

hank, 

Richard J

----------


## Gan Ainm

I've recently been having fun with an old "Bruno" mando banjo with only one string per course for getting down and dirty. Also my old Kalamazoo Army Navy style seems to have pretty good Mojo in a "thunky" vein...
But is does seem to be 50% technique, 50% attitude and 15% the instrument...

----------


## allenhopkins

1.  I'd recommend an oval-hole instrument, either a flat-top or a carved-top.  Old Gibson oval-holes are great, also a bit pricey.  There are a wide variety of older flat or canted-top instruments that would work.

2.  Resonator mandolins have a really distinctive sound; I think some of the interest in them, is that many old blues musicians used resonator _guitars_ -- Nationals, spider-bridge Regals, etc.  I have an old National Triolian steel-body mandolin that's great for blues, but these are pretty rare and really pricey now.

3.  Some older blues mandolinists used inexpensive instruments -- Kay, Harmony, etc. -- perhaps from choice, perhaps because they could afford them.  Whether to emulate them or not, in order to get a similar sound, is _our_ choice.

----------

DavidKOS

----------


## Bert Deivert

When Rich DelGrosso and I did some gigs in Sweden together, we both played our National RM-1s with hotplate pickups. They are great workhorses for stage, have a special sound, and look great!  I would love to have some of my other mandos with me, instead, at times, however, the RM-1 is not delicate, and it stands up to bad treatment by airport bag handlers and I have even had the endpin come unscrewed and dropped it on a tile floor without serious damage. I think that is why we both prefer using them on the road. I have taken a few of my older mandos on gigs, like F-2s, like Marc Woodward uses, 1910's Gibson oval holes, and so forth, but the one I play at home now, is the Giacomel J5. If I find a way to mike it up without feedback with an internal pickup without modification to the instrument, I will start using it sometimes for nearby gigs. Any mandolin is great for blues, it is all about the technique and notes you use.

----------


## Nick Gellie

_My Collings A MTO has a mean sound for blues._ 

Londy, Couldn't agree more.  I have a Collings MT2-O.  I love playing blues on it.

----------


## Matt

> I usually use my 1920 F2 for blues. I prefer that fatter ringing sound of a round hole. Whether slide is preferable too is arguable lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc


Hi Marc! 
Fabulous all the way around. Is that standard tuning or is everything dropped down a bit? Really nice.
Matt

----------


## Marc Woodward

sorry, not been around the café for a few weeks!
Thanks Matt  :Smile: 

Just standard tuning should be concert pitch or thereabouts. 

best wishes,

Marc

----------

WW52

----------


## Rush Burkhardt

:Popcorn:

----------

WW52

----------


## WW52

Check your local pawn shops for a Strad-o-lin.

----------


## Bob A

Thanks for the Ry Cooder clip. His first album was the impetus for my getting my F4. There's nothing I don't love about that mandolin, fits me like a glove.

Any instrument you have can play the blues, if you got the blues.

----------

