# Music by Genre > Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk >  Mandola vs. Mandolin?

## dmcginnis

Does anyone prefer a mandola (18" scale tuned DAEB) over a mandolin for Irish Trad music?  Why or why not?

Thanks,
Dave

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## ptritz

Yes, I use both the mandola and the tenor banjo in that tuning for Irish music.   I play the mandolin as well, but normally use either the mandola or the banjo in sessions.   IN a session with more than two-three players, the mandolin's pitch gets lost behind the fiddles and accordions, and its percussiveness gets lost behind the guitars and bodhrans and banjos.  Becuase it's an octave lower, the mandola is more readily heard.  It works for accompaniment as well.  Of course there are some drawbacks to that tuning too - some tunes for which it would be really nice to have that bottom G string.  

Pete

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## raulb

A mandola s not tuned an octave lower than a mandolin.  That would be an octave mandolin or bouzouki.  A mandola (like a viola) is tuned a fifth lower than a mandolin (or violin).

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## mrmando

> A mandola s not tuned an octave lower than a mandolin.


 Depends on where you live.

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## dmcginnis

I did not want to start the debate over mandola or octave mandolin as terminology - that is why I specified a scale length and tuning....sorry for any confusion.

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## Bertram Henze

DAEB ist a rare tuning for ITM. I have played a CGDA-tuned banjo for a few years, and even that was exotic, but I could get along.
Today I play an octave mandola (GDAE) which I like better than the mandolin for its longer sustain, larger fretboard and versatility for song accompaniment (if you can't decide to take a mandolin or a guitar, the OM is both in one).

To escape the frequency spectrum of a session in order to be heard, you'd have to go either higher than a mandolin (fiddle/whistle range) or below an OM (guitar range), so there is no way around a loud instrument with projection to cut through.

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## Ptarmi

Of course, the best advice would be to avoid those huge sessions, full of musicians trying to play louder than each other, then you can play what you want!  :Whistling: 

Of course, I know, back in the real World, many folks just don't have a choice. 

I must say though, from my own experience, I tend to disagree with what has already been said. 
I had both a fine quality *Mandolin* & an excellent *Octave Mandolin* which I tried out at our local Sessions & I found that the Mandolin was much easier for me to hear. I found that the muddy sounds of the Octave Mandolin just got lost amongst the boomy sounds from the Guitar & Bodhran especially.  :Frown: 

Now to qualify this, I must say that I don't play chords, so I was only playing melody on both. 

Something else to bear in mind is, when playing something a little on the quiet side like a Mandolin, you do have to be careful where you sit & who you sit next to, at a session. In one of our local sessions, I have a great spot with a wall & window to my right, which actually bounces the sound of my Mandolin straight back at me!  :Cool: 

Another thought is that the quality of the instrument will also make a difference. I started on a cheap little Japanese round back, over 30 years ago & in a session it was very quiet, but back then, I hadn't learned a lot of the sessions skills, like finding the best place to sit & who *NOT* to sit next to!  :Wink: 

Of course, if your talking about a *Mandola*, rather than an *OM*, then I suppose that falls between the two, for volume & sound quality, but I must confess I have rarely seen Mandolas being used to play melody in Irish Sessions.

On the other hand, if your going to bang & thrash your OM or Mandola simply for backing, then I guess your going to hear yourself anyway.

Like a lot of things though, I guess it comes down to trial & error & personal preference, so what works for me, might not work for you!  :Whistling: 

Good Luck.

Cheers
Dick

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## Michael Wolf

I played a Davy Stuart mandola for some time that had 18" scale. I played it in DAEB and DAEA. I wanted a instrument on which I could play melody and accompaniment equally good. I was inspired by Brian McDonnagh of Dervish at that time.
It worked quite good to a certain extent, but there were some drawbacks that made me switch back to mandolin tuning. 
When playing melody the most action took place on the relative heavy bass strings, using DAE like octave mando, plus the A-strings for the higher notes. But this is not where the instrument sounds best for melody, that would be on the high strings. But the A-string didn´t get much use for melody. 
Ok, you can avoid stretches or position changes in DAEA/B, because all the notes needed for the tunes are available in first position. But I personally don´t want to avoid these playing techniques. So I felt that it wouldn´t be very desirable for me to play a instrument that keeps me from practising the stretches and changes that lead you to the dusty end of the fretboard. But that´s a minor matter that might be relevant only for me.
All in all things seemed to be more in the right place in mandolin tuning, playing the typical keys for irish tunes and other styles.
Accompaniment worked very good with mandola (see Dervish), but I like bouzouki somewhat better for this. Plus I can capo my bouzouki at 5th or 7th fret when I want to play in this range (and it sounds great there).
What I play most in sessions now is the mandolin and the tenor guitar. I also like the fact that my brain is not stressed to much when I switch between instruments that have the same tuning.

Funny enough I still play together with my mandola, because I gave it to the guitar player of my band and it was a revelation for him. The mandola in DAEA became his main instrument.

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## Bertram Henze

> ...But I personally don´t want to avoid these playing techniques. So I felt that it wouldn´t be very desirable for me to play a instrument that keeps me from practising the stretches and changes that lead you to the dusty end of the fretboard.


I feel much the same - afraid to paint myself in a corner by adapting the instrument to my skills until I can only play a strumstick.
"dusty end of the fretboard" - hilarious!  :Laughing: 




> Accompaniment worked very good with mandola (see Dervish), but I like bouzouki somewhat better for this. Plus I can capo my bouzouki at 5th or 7th fret when I want to play in this range (and it sounds great there).


Sounds like a mandocello would be even better for that, one octave below the mandola (and being alone on the bottom end of the spectrum, audible at last, too)?




> Funny enough I still play together with my mandola, because I gave it to the guitar player of my band and it was a revelation for him. The mandola in DAEA became his main instrument.


Now that's what I call a happy ending  :Smile:

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## dmcginnis

Great comments - my initial thoughts on using a mandola instead of a mandolin come from some intensive listening to Dervish and Brian McDonnagh's fine playing.  But, this will be a melody instrument for me, not a backing/chordal instrument - that will be for my guitar.  It sounds like the wisdom of this fine forum is to stay with the mandolin....thanks

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## whistler

> A mandola s not tuned an octave lower than a mandolin.  That would be an octave mandolin or bouzouki.  A mandola (like a viola) is tuned a fifth lower than a mandolin (or violin).


True, although the term _mandola_ is often used in Britain to refer to an octave mandolin.   But, be that as it may, if you are playing tunes in a session on a (CGDA-tuned) mandola, you will, at least some of the time, be an octave lower than a mandolin or fiddle.  The _tuning_ may be a 5th lower, but if you were to _play_ the thing a 5th lower, you'd get some very odd looks indeed.

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## ptritz

> A mandola s not tuned an octave lower than a mandolin.  That would be an octave mandolin or bouzouki.  A mandola (like a viola) is tuned a fifth lower than a mandolin (or violin).


The question was about using a mandola that's tuned DAEB; i.e., a step higher than the normal CGDA mandola tuning.  If you play irish tunes on a mandola tuned DAEB, the notes you'll be playing will be an octave below the notes that the mandolin and the fiddle are playing.  

Pete

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## allenhopkins

What it sounds like, is that you are in fact playing octave mandolin, in a sense: the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings of your long-scale mandola, are an octave below the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings of a mandolin or fiddle.  So what the fiddlers/mandolinists are playing on their 1st strings, you're playing on your 2nd string, an octave lower, and so forth.

For this (admittedly unusual) approach, a good mandola would make a lot of sense.  The smaller body and shorter scale would avoid what some see as the "muddier" sound of a regular OM.  The octave-doubled melody would give an interesting texture, and you could do most of the fast-finger stuff the mandolins/fiddles are doing, since the finger stretches wouldn't be that much longer.

The question, to me, is why you'd want to sacrifice the *difference* between mandolin and mandola.  What I like about using mandola at a seisun, is playing counter-melodies, harmonies, little chord patterns behind the melody.  Jeez, there are always plenty of people playing melody, usually better than I can play it.  I like having the CGDA tuning so that I'm not working out of the same chord positions as the melody players (they're in "D," I'm in "A" positions, etc.), so I'm not making the exact same runs and duples and whatever.

Basically, you're using mandola as a short-scale OM, with the added notes on the 1st string to keep you in first position when the melody gets to "B" and above.  Works for you, then go for it.  I'd just suggest that you put the 'dola in CGDA tuning, try it that way sometimes, and slap a capo on the 2nd fret when you want to go back to DAEB.

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## catmandu2

> What I like about using mandola at a seisun, is playing counter-melodies, harmonies, little chord patterns behind the melody.


Me too.  And although I enjoy the timbre of dola and CBOMs, in ensembles I usually play tenor banjo as everything can be accomplished with it--and what I particularly enjoy about TB is its potency relative to the amount of energy necessary to make it "hum."

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## whistler

I've come across DGDA as a tuning for mandola.  Whilst it might make tune playing a little confusing, it provides a more useful bass string for chording, at least for tunes in D, G and A.  But, in general, the more 'open' the tuning, the less versatile it is in terms of keys.

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## montana

Dave get off the Internet and start learning some tunes!!!!

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## dmcginnis

Hi Ed - I AM working on them...but I do need a better mando than the one you sold me eventually!

Cheers,
Dave

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## montana

Dave, are you guys still meeting to play music on Sundays?

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## Simen Kjaersdalen

I don't play much Irish trad. music, but much Norwegian. In two weeks I will have some solo-gigs in the heart of folk-music Norway (the mountains of Telemark) and I'm trying out just the same: Mandolin or mandola. (I tune the mandola with a 4-D) 

My conclusion so far is: Mandolin for the bit "rougher" playing, mandola for the more "spirutual" tunes. For me I think the mandola "lifts" the music more, maybe because of the bigger sound. Or to put it another way: When I play in churches, I almost always prefer the mandola. The sound is richer, deeper, more calming.

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