# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  How do I get that clean jazz sound

## shortcircuit

OK, I have this Gold Tone GM-110 (Rigel want to be) that I have dropped down to four string.  It has a piezo pickup in it now.  I have tried all the settings on my little Digiteck RP-50 and still have a twangy mandolin sound.  I know it's a mandolin!!!  I'm thinking that maybe a mag pickup might do the trick along with some flatwound strings. Can it be done to get a clean smooth jazz sound out of a mandolin?  I know it can I heard it come out of a old solid body mando.  My thought was I could get a cleaner sound with more color from the hollow body over the solid body. How many solid body guitars can be called jazz boxes?

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## Jim Bevan

Your twangy mandolin sound might be due to your pick, if you are using a pointed thin one instead of a rounded thick one...

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## shortcircuit

Been using Dunlop stubby 2.0 mm . Just didn't know if everyone was using a special effects box.  And so, which one.

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## Dfyngravity

Truly you need a mag. p/u. But also you might need to work on dialing in your amp settings too. Backing some treble and even a bit of mid out and adding in a little bass.

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## Christian McKee

You're on the right path by choosing a hollow bodied instrument.  You'll eventually want a magnetic pickup (jazz guitars like 335's tend to have humbuckers rather than single coils) but right now you can start playing with tone controls.  Like Dfyngravity said, back down on your treble - in fact, you can back it down to zero on a lot of amps/instruments and most of "that sound" is right there.  On the *very* rare occasions when I want to use a sound like this, I just dial my instrument's tone pot back nearly to zero.  There, done.  That's also a good illustration of why I don't like to use this sound too much - it feels too undefined to me.  But taste is personal...

I don't have any experience with your amp, so if its tone controls don't offer a lot of variation, you might consider some kind of EQ pedal.  Are you using a preamp between the mando and amp?  That might have the EQ you need.  The other thing I might consider doing is tuning way down, maybe as far down as mandola voicing (CGDA) to lower the string tension, and thereby "plinky" or "twangy" attack.  

Good luck!

Christian

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## shortcircuit

The amp I'm using for this is my Fender Blues Delux tweed mid 90's model.  I have tried the bass all the way up and the treble all the way down, reverb at mid about midway.  Did not know if it's the peizo pickup that might be doing it and just installing a humbucker pickup and doing away with the peizo might solve the problem.  Or maybe the right stomp box. I purchased this mando just to modify to do this.

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## Pete Martin

I believe you will have a hard time getting a traditional Jazz sound with a piezo pickup.

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## shortcircuit

Pete- I think your right.  Now I need to find a pickup that is less the 3/4 high

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## rico mando

you need a humbucker mag pickup ,then does your amp have tubes? a friend of mine has had great success using suspended jazz humbucker mini. i think a kent armstrong suspended jazz humbucker would work
Pickup dimensions 2-23/32" x 1-1/8" x 1/2" (69.06mm x 28.58mm x 12.70mm)
Bracket spacing 2-1/4" (57.15mm)

you should be able to bend the brackets enough to attach it to the neck
the benedetto Dimensions are 3-1/8" x 1-1/2" x 3/4". This pickup includes a flat-bottom 4" x 1-15/16" x 3/8" mounting ring.
both available from stew mac

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## MANNDOLINS

If you install a humbucker you should probably whack some of that fret board length off or pickup will be in the "bridge position". For a warm sound you want the magnetic pickup as close to the center of string vibration (12th fret) as possible.

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## shortcircuit

Yes the Fender blues delux is a tube amp.  I also have solid state amps but like the old tube sound. Thanks I will look into those pickups.  I have a birthday coming up soon so maybe my better half won't mind me buying myself a birthday present.

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## shortcircuit

I was thinking about cutting off some of the fretboard ext. to mount the pickup against the neck. Might even be able to mount it to the neck, but at that point it won't matter if the mando has a few holes in it.

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## rico mando

you may want to dabble in the five string electric territory as well ,very jazzy sound i find.i recommend something with a 14.5 in scale, though the fender fm60e can be found for an inexpensive amount from time to time if you keep your eyes peeled.i recommend putting the heavy c string(.48 or .50) and tuning cgda  if you want to get a feel for what that c string will sound like

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## shortcircuit

I'm a guitar player for about forty years now.  Just dabbeling my way with the mando.  Have not found too much info on chords for five string mandos.  I can make this one five if I need to.

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## rico mando

you would be amazed at how simple it is too expand the chords. i can go into further detail but if you do not have a 5 string then it would be all mental exercise .

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## shortcircuit

Do you know of any web sites for info on playing the five string?

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## rico mando

no i do not but maybe i will email ted at jazzmando.com and see if we can put together some pdf files as i found the five has helped in understanding the four and i am sure he is all ways looking for more content

hey ted are you out there?

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## Ted Eschliman

JazzCittern.com

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## shortcircuit

Ted, thanks.  Hope they didn't put the pressure on you.  I"ll look into this.  thanks again Ted.  And thank you Rico for dragging Ted into this.

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## mandroid

I find the 4 string mandola, CGDA tuning, and a humbucking pickup , will be a suitable sound, 
Means pretty much a shopping opportunity , 
but rare to be anything  on the shelf, as such ..   Breedlove has one made as such, 
 I have a EM 150 like conversion where a Luthier fitted a stacked humbucking pickup 
into a Gibson A50 .. 

think of what funds you have to devote to acquiring another instrument ..

some 4 string solid body instruments have worked when restrung, too ..

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## shortcircuit

I am going to install a humbucker on this mando and see what happens.  Can't be too bad.
 This mando was purchased just to make a jazz/blues mando out of, so will not be purchasing another instrument for this project anytime soon.  Thanks for everyones input and I will put most of it to good use. (I hope)

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## jlsmandolin1952

Don Julin (well known Jazz Player) has put a sound clip of one of my electric solid body models on the jazzmando website: www.jazzmando.com if you're interested in what a solid body can produce? Click on Builders, and look for the review for (J.L. Smith), then click on the sound clip link. Just thought you might be interested?
                                               John
www.jlsmithmandolins.com

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## shortcircuit

John- thanks will do that...

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## mandroid

In the archives of this section is a few pictures of someone router-ing a shelf in the end of the fingerboard.
and getting a kent armstrong mini floating type pickup  and fitting that. eliminating a few of the highest frets in the process,
But, you probably won't go above the 15th anyhow ..

one setup, as I recall, rewired the two knobs to be a volume  for each type of pickup, put a stereo jack in,
 and plugged a Y cable into that jack, and processed the 2 signals separately .. each in its own loop.

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## Sergio Lara

My favorite clean jazz tone is using flat wound strings on my old Fender mandocaster thru my Roland cube 60, cutting the treble on the mando and the amp and boosting the mids with some reverb and a short delay. I have been using that set up for years and I got my flat wound strings from Ted at jazzmando.com  Thanks again, Ted!

Serge

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## shortcircuit

Been looking at the Kent Armstrong mini pickup.  That's about as close as one can get to "it will bolt right up"
I was thinking about trimming the end of the fretboad anyway.  So I think the mini is the way to go.

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## shortcircuit

Thanks for the input. Didn't think about using some delay.  Will have to try that.

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## Dfyngravity

the Kent Armstrong minis are great. Steve Holst had one custom made for my mando he just built me.

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## shortcircuit

It's the Kent Armstrong pickup I'm going to put on it.  Everybody seems to rave about the pickups.

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## Ted Eschliman

Add me to the list of Kent Armstrong p/u fans.

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## mandroid

Yea probably best to  get the pickup, then it will tell you how much wood has to go to get it to fit.
to make it look like it was always sposda be a 4 stringer
you can add a layer of veneer to the front and back of the peg head face to cover up plugging 
 4 surplus  tuner holes rather than 8 that there are now.

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## shortcircuit

Well I was sold before you chimed in.  Now I'm opening my wallet. If it makes me sound like you I"ll buy all they have in stock.  What a deal..

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## shortcircuit

Have a fancy inlay peg head veneer that I got off of egay.  If it works out that will happen along with some new tuners.

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## shortcircuit

Ted do you know if the pickup come with a warranty to make me sound like you?  What marketing for a pickup. One won't be found for the next twenty years with everybody wanting to sound like you.

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## rico mando

i may be wrong but i think they do custom orders so you will have a pick up that is meant for mando size. might have to wait and pay more for that

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## shortcircuit

I will look into that on Monday.  thanks

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## rico mando

i like helping others spend their money,gives my wallet a break :Laughing:  
man i am jonesing for a boss rc-50 so bad :Mandosmiley:

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## shortcircuit

rico-  you and me both!!!  I see the rc-20 on craigslist every couple weeks or so for about $100.  But I also want the rc-50.  Just might happen.  My wife introduced me the the looper.  She wanted one for her electric violin.  She was showing me a few guys using it with the violin.  Since then I have seen guitar and mandolin players using it.  I think we all need one.

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## rico mando

i am sure those guys selling their rc-20 have already upgraded to the 50

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## shortcircuit

I'm going to hold off until a RC-50 shows up.  I'm not quite ready for it yet, but will be soon.

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## Tom Wright

I find the Boss GE-7 EQ essential, even for my solid-body. It has a twangy setup naturally, with single-coil pickups, but a sharp rolloff after 1.6K, mainly dropping the 3.2K band, makes for a fat, dark, tone. Not possible to get that different tone response with only the amp tone controls. Even the different pickup won;t automatically give you the tone you want.

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## shortcircuit

Tom- thanks for the input and also which EQ that you are using.  Gives me something to play with at the store.  At least I can go direct to the Boss and play with it first and not waste too much time on the lesser channel EQ's  I" check it out.

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## Tom Wright

I think you'll find that the range between 2K and 4K is what to cut. On the Boss it's 3.2K. Cut it all the way to start. I like a bit of boost below it, pushing the 1.6K up somewhat, and adding in a bit of the next two down, 800 and 400, makes it rather humbuckerish.

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## shortcircuit

Tom- found a EQ-7 on craigslist for $25 this morning.  Of course I picked it up for $20.  Now playing with it.  I think you are right.  This just may fix my problem.  So far I like the sound that I can get from this.  May not install my Kent Armstrong pickup for awhile.  Or may use it for another project down the road.  thanks for the input.  It seems to work.  Still need to play with it a little more to get the hang of it.

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## Verne Andru

You're on the right track playing with a separate EQ.

I use a Tech21 SansAmp Para Driver DI and can tailor the sound to just about anything I need. I mounted a piezo mic under the soundboard of my POS F-style and run it through the SansAmp, into a delay then out an old, 1960's Takt tube amp. Sounds great and I always get a ton of compliments.

The parametric EQ on the mids is particularly important to get rid of the piezo squawk and dial-out any feedback issues. A lot of acoustic guitar players swear by the L.R. Baggs Para DI and Radial makes a PZ Pre that John Jorgenson uses in his gypsy jazz rig. Piezos can sound great, but they need some outobard help.

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## shortcircuit

I pretty much have the sound I want now by installing the flatwound strings that I purchased from Ted and using the Boss EQ-7.  thanks for everyones help.

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## hotclub

Here is a Goldtone with the Kent Armstrong installed in the routed out end of the fretboard. It also has a stereo output jack for both the mag and piezo signals.

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## Verne Andru

^^ That's pretty sweet. Which Kent Armstrong pickup?

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## hotclub

I can't remember if it has a name or number, but here's a better photo of one I put on a fender earlier. I like the individual adjustable posts, only way I've found to get all string volumes the same. E posts are high, A posts are low, and D and G posts are flush. Both mandos are with only four strings.

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## Verne Andru

That looks like one of Kent's personal custom wounds. He's made me a 6 and a 7 string floating humbuckers and that looks like the same build. I will have to give him a call.

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## shortcircuit

That's what I was thinking about doing to my goldtone .  I have the Kent Armstrong mini pickup but, I think I'm getting the smooth sound by using the EQ.  We will see maybe in a few months I may use the Armstrong pickup anyway.  It does look like it belongs with your installation.  Nice job!

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## i-vibe

plenty of good advice and ideas offered up along the way...but i'm kinda suprised no one has mentioned using a proplerly dialed in compressor.

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## Soundfarmer Pete

> I find the Boss GE-7 EQ essential, even for my solid-body. It has a twangy setup naturally, with single-coil pickups, but a sharp rolloff after 1.6K, mainly dropping the 3.2K band, makes for a fat, dark, tone. Not possible to get that different tone response with only the amp tone controls. Even the different pickup won;t automatically give you the tone you want.


Spooky - I thought it was a flaw with my generator software :-)

Mine look to be also down around 3.2 - how odd!
My guess would be a neck humbucker around 7.5k with mild magnets.

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## Tom Wright

Partly it's my Celestion neodynium speaker, which is rather bright, showing a drop after 2K but a peak at 3K. But I also have found that piezo violin pickups sound much sweeter and more natural after killing that 3K band. 4K and up is fine for sizzle, 2K good for edge, but that 3K sounds like trash. I think it's that the wood of acoustic instruments doesn't respond much above 2K, and you only hear the twang straight off the string.

Humbuckers drop off rapidly, so rolling off the tone makes them nicely dark. Single coil pickups go up farther, so they don't easily yield the dark but focused tone. And piezos need lots of help.

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## michaell

I think that it's easier to get the clean jazz sound with a good amp and a nice pickup-in the neck position.  I have used Duncans  and I thought they were fine.  I currently have Bartolinis on my mandolins, and they are very nice, but there are other pickup manufacturers that are excellent as well.  Flatwounds and heavy strings matter less than one would imagine.  I use very light strings and I think that they sound OK and -they are much easier to use when one slips and slides, bends and uses vibrato.

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## mando.player

Michael, any amp suggestions?

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## michaell

Well...I use either a Roland Cube 30 (clean channel), or my Polytone Megabrute for larger gigs.  I play very softly, in small places so I don't need all that much firepower.  Any clean amp can do-didn't Wes use a Standel?

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## Tom Wright

I have a Roland 30, which has some useful presets and amp models. Nice little amp but it's kind of feeble if you want to work loud.

I get great results from an inexpensive amp, the Crate PowerBlock, and a separate speaker cab. After schlepping tube amps I've quit forever, and would upgrade to Euphonic Audio's tiny 2.5 lb. 300W head, but the Crate is 4.5 lbs, so it's good enough for now.

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## FOF

I an the delighted owner of a '59 Fender, a Godin A8, and a J L Smith 5 string now being upgraded to dual humbuckers.  The Godin though a much needed preamp with a notch filter to control resonance and a Peavey keyboard amp gives a great acoustic sort of sound - amplified; the Fender rocks though multiple effects into dual Voxs heads and cabs; but my truly gorgeous jazz tone comes form the J L Smith sans effects direct into a Fender Champ.  Sweet, simple and, I believe, unbeatable.  Should be great with you Blues Deluxe, and far too inexpensive for the quality you get.

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