# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  Electric Mandolins? Do you like it? or Hate it?

## empire

I dont dislike them...but I very much prefer an acoustic Mandolin. It sounds more.... Mandolin!

An Electric Mandolin sounds like a normal Electric Guitar played pm the high frets. Not enough to impress me.

What about you? Do you like it or hate it? and why? :Grin:

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## Mandobart

I love them both.  I have a Mandobird VIII, so with the 8 strings on a clean amp setting it sounds like a mandolin, vs a little guitar.  I also have added pickups to my acoustics so I can play out more.  The electric 'bird does the trick when I'm playing with a large band with drums, electric guitar, bass, etc.  I can't crank up the AE's enough without feedback (depending on the sound system/sound person) to be heard well.  So if I'm playing rock or blues, I bring out the solid body 8 string.  We have a whole forum devoted to electric mandolins here, and a social group.  You ought to listen to some Gerry Hundt to get a different perspective:

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HurricaneHarrison

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## rico mando

Big Like for electrics but i do consider myself to be a musician as opposed to a mandolin player

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## Ed Goist

I love electric mandolins for three reasons:
1. As a blues/rock guy, I think the electric mandolin expands the tonal palate of the instrument, broading it's musical creative power and relevence.
2. Jeff Bird
3. Did I mention Jeff Bird?!

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## Mike Bunting

Tiny Moore, Johnny Gimble.

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## Chip Booth

I am a better electric guitarist than I am a mandolin player, and I have tried hard to love the electric mandolin, but can't quite get there.  I have owned a couple including a Fender Mandocaster and a Gibson EM200.  While I completely appreciate the music other people have played on them, for myself an electric guitar is far better suited to make that music.  If I didn't play play guitar already I would almost certainly feel differently.  That said, I am sure another EM will come my way, I can't help but love all things mandolin.

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## delsbrother

Why? Because _Guitar_ Srinivas would be utterly pretentious.  :Whistling:

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## Elliot Luber

I have both and play both and love both. I play them differently and typically with different types of music. Each has their own beauty, but at the end of the day I'm partial to a rich acoustic sound.

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## Flattpicker

Tiny Moore, Paul Glasse, U. Shrinivas--what's not to like?

I heard Paul with Mitch Watkins and a bassist a couple of months back and it was just stellar music-making.  I heard him with Cindy Cashdollar and Redd Volkaert last year and it was an embarrassment of riches.  Some years back I heard group "Remember Shakti" with Shrinivas and John McLaughlin.

How you gonna hang with the other people who plug in if you don't do the same?

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## 250sc

I have no dislike for electric mandolin but can't think of anything a single course electric mando can do that an electric guitar can't do just as successfully but guitar has a wider range of notes. I've never heard an electric mando that didn't sound the same as an electric guitar.

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## mandelect

To the OP: I noticed you stated in another thread that; "I do not like F or A style mandolins. I like only the bowl Back 'classical' tone when it comes to Mandolins."

If you do not like F and A style mandolins, and are unimpressed by electric mandolins, then why do you feel the need to talk about them here? Seems like by even bothering to reply to this thread, that I may be feeding the troll.

Me, I luv 'em - they can sound similar to guitars (not better or worse), and they can sound totally different. Apologies to the OP if he does have a genuine interest in this subject.

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## Treblemaker

Here (IMHO) are some worthwhile examples of Emando that are right for the context of the music and expertly delivered.

Back up and push
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbA4_5Wba2U&NR=1

Dixie HoeDown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKNe...eature=related

Cherokee Shuffle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYND9..._order&list=UL 

I don't know who this guy is, but I'd like to be able to play like him...

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## Big Joe

I want to like electric mandolins for personal playing, but have never really gotten into it.  I mess around with it from time to time, but have not really given it a real chance... especially playing out live.  I may do so in the near future.  I do enjoy building them.  We have not done one in a couple years and should do a couple this year for the fun of it.  It would be a fun project and we have never had a problem selling them.  Actually, one of the reasons I've never messed with it enough is that we sell them before I can really get to play one very much.  I do play quite a bit of electric guitar and bass so the electric mandolin would fit nicely in some of what I do.  Thanks for the suggestion  :Smile:  .

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## mandelect

> 3. Did I mention Jeff Bird?!


Hey Ed, don't know how that clip passed me by, thanks for posting it. Nice emando solo and what a wonderful sound!!!

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## bobby bill

I like an electric mandolin that is not conflicted about its identity.  That is, not an electric mandolin that is trying to sound like an acoustic mandolin (only louder), but one that is fully at peace with its electricness and proud of it.  That's a great clip Treblemaker posted (couldn't access the other two).  And the mention, above, of Paul Glasse bears repeating.  In a city full of musical treasures, he ranks at the top in my book.

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## empire

> I love electric mandolins for three reasons:
> 1. As a blues/rock guy, I think the electric mandolin expands the tonal palate of the instrument, broading it's musical creative power and relevence.
> 2. Jeff Bird
> 3. Did I mention Jeff Bird?!


This sounds exactly like a regular Electric Guitar! There is no mandolin tone at all.

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## mandelect

> This sounds exactly like a regular Electric Guitar! There is no mandolin tone at all.


Does it matter? I'd hate to think that just because I play the mandolin, I'm obliged to sound like somebody else's idea of what "traditional" mandolin should sound like - acoustic, electric or otherwise.

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## rico mando

i have found that talented guitar players/musicians get a real kick out of my electric mandolin and enjoy it .where as less talented and insecure guitar players /musicians tend to get put out that i would play something that looks like a small guitar . I'm not saying- i'm just saying

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## abuteague

I like to mix in playing 4 string electric mandolin for my mandolin practice. It reminds me to lighten up my left hand. If I have a whole lot of rehearsals, I'll favor the electric because I forget to take breaks. 

That, and every so often I get the urge to play the star spangled banner with a lot of distortion.

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## Dan Hulse

It's just a different tool. It depends on the job at hand and what you want to say. Viva le differance!

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## Jim Bevan

Played tastefully, often just adding a nice high drone (similar to a keyboard player holding an above-middle-C root/fifth/root while everything else moves around), an electric mando along with two electric guitars sounds better to my ears than three electric guitars. Sounds like someone has a 12-string Ric. It creates a beautifully-blended tone. 

So ya, I love 'em, they're great fun, they have a cool sound (if one spends as much effort as guitarists do chasing the "tone dragon"), riffs are possible that aren't possible on a guitar, audiences love 'em, and they definitely have a respectable niche.

But...
I don't think you  should compare acoustic & electric mandos anyways, as far as what constitutes mandolininess.  :Smile:  A four-string solid-body mando is really a soprano guitar. It's like comparing a piano with a Rhodes -- which one sounds more pianistic? Duh?

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## delsbrother

> This sounds exactly like a regular Electric Guitar! There is no mandolin tone at all.


All kidding aside, I would agree in _timbre_ it sounds similar to an electric guitar, especially with effects/distortion, etc. But there are subtle differences (IMO, of course) in how the two instruments are played - and thus how they _sound_ - it's all in the phrasing. I believe there is much more range in the fifths tuning as well, though maybe I'm wrong.. To my ears, Tiny doesn't sound like Eldon.. Srinivas doesn't sound like McLaughlin..

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## tonyvt

I like electric mandolins when they are in the hands of Michael Kang.

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## Treblemaker

Q: Do you know the difference between a violinist and a fiddler?
A: About 50 bucks an hour.

This whole argument boils down to a few factors:
The talent of the player.  The context in which the instrument is used and the perception of the listener....

But after all is said and done I agree with Mandelect:
"Does it matter? I'd hate to think that just because I play the mandolin, I'm obliged to sound like somebody else's idea of what "traditional" mandolin should sound like - acoustic, electric or otherwise."

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## Charlieshafer

Tiny Moore, for sure, and Paul Buskirk, too! Love them.

I'll try to embed the video, but I'm not sure I can do anything but link to a video...

http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/26585917

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## Perry

Lots of good points. I'm in the camp that an electric guitar can do MOST of what an electric mandolin can do and a whole lot more. But that's easy for me to say because I play guitar if I didn't and wanted to make some hellacious noise then an electric mandolin is what I'd want!

But there are certain ringing drones and chord inversions that are unique to the fifths tuning as pointed out above. 

One of my favorite aspects of an acoustic mandolin is how powerful a percussive rhythmic instrument it can be. All this is lost on an electric mandolin. Also I never heard string bending on an electric mandolin that I liked with the exception of Richard Thompson (who can bend any string into goodness) on Niles' Electric Mandolin instruction tapes.

Johnny Gimble played an electric mandolin tuned like a mandola didn't he?
Michael Kang plays a five string. Both of these fellows veering even more towards guitar-like range.

I think Michael Lampert makes great use of a four string in a jazz context.

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## Mike Bunting

Johnny Gimble and Randy Elmore.

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## journeybear

Electric mandolins and acoustic mandolins are different instruments. Electric guitars and acoustic guitars are different instruments. Electric fretted string instruments tend to sound similar, since however the instrument is configured, the sound comes from magnetic pickups. Piezoelectric pickups provide a more accurate acoustic sound, but I don't think that is what the OP is talking about here. 

I love a lot of different kinds of music, but the instrument I play is mandolin. So I have to adapt the music to the instrument, or the instrument to the music. If I am going to play rock, blues, reggae, and some country, this means I will be playing electric, or amplified acoustic, and it will be through some effects and with a wah-wah. Maybe it's just me and I have been doing this for so long that I don't even think about it much any more, but it makes perfect sense to me. Obvious, in fact. So I'm with you, rico mando - I'm a musician whose instrument is mandolin.


250sc - pretty sure guitars and mandolins have roughly the same range, just offset by about an octave.

Jim Bevan - I get your point, and am going to quibble just a bit - A four-string solid body mando is NOT a soprano guitar, since there actually are soprano guitars, though I think they are called octave guitars. I have seen these half-length electric twelve strings, which enable a guitarist to get a mandolin sound without having to learn the instrument (similar to the banjolin and the guitarjo hybrid approaches).

Ed - Yes, you mentioned Jeff Bird - and you beat me to it! And empire - when a player has really dialed in his sound, that is what a monstrously well-played electric mandolin sounds like. In the rock style, anyway. Worth noting - listen to the applause for a _solo_ at the end of the second solo. I cannot think of another time I have heard this in a talk show appearance. Something really, really good happened there, and the audience got it. And I bet most of them didn't know what a mandolin is or what it is supposed to sound like.

Bottom line - play your instrument well, and people will appreciate it. Hopefully.  :Wink: 

Darn - didn't really answer the question. Um, ignoring the grammar, neither - LOVE it!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Perry

> 250sc - pretty sure guitars and mandolins have roughly the same range, just offset by about an octave.


That octave (along with the different tuning interval) sets them a world apart.

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## Tom Wright

Electric mandolin is a different axe, as Journeybear says. I don't expect a Strat to sound like or do the same job as a Martin dreadnought. I certainly love my Ryder, for its sound as well as its comfortable feel.

Guitarists usually solo up in mandolin range. While the guitar's low strings are way below the mandolin G, mando players get to play in low position to solo in the comfortable melodic range. And for us 5-string players, there is plenty of bottom available for chording as well as solo. But the tuning leads us to different ideas and riffs, which we hope are way cool and worth letting the mandolin player onstage. A 5-string has a wider range of open strings than does a 6-string guitar. I have 4 octaves of total range, and two octaves plus a major third between the highest and lowest open strings.

I love guitars but am better at mandolin, from having played violin and viola forever. Still, I want to do the guitar's job of being the band as well as the solo line. There's a reason most bands don't have a purely solo axe, like sax or trumpet, anymore. The smaller bands have fewer players sharing that door, so a mandolin that can be the main harmony instrument could get more work. I've worked out a bunch of fully solo versions of various kinds of music, mainly to explore the possibilities if I am lucky enough to join a band in my golden years.

I much prefer the 5- or 10-string setups because I have both the speed of the convenient short scale as well as a way to handle bass lines and counterpoint along with chords. I will use my electric in a loud band, and my acoustic in a quiet one or for small-room solo playing.

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## journeybear

> That octave (along with the different tuning interval) sets them a world apart.


Absotively & posilutely. Guitars have a low end growl mandolins don't; mandolins have a high end wail guitars don't. I will grant that low end will get worked a lot more than that high end, but it's nice to have.

Ever notice how many rock guitarists start their solos low and build higher and higher to the climax, up around the join, an octave or higher up? Well, consider that mandolinists can _start_ their solos there.  :Mandosmiley:

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## F-2 Dave

Mike, I really liked the Johnny Gimble clip. Was that Paul Anastasio on fiddle?

I have to say that I love electric mandolin. Although 95% of what I play is acoustic, I enjoy having my fender electric around. It's a cool piece of fender history. I'm just not a gearhead. Lugging amps and plugging wires just doesn't do it for me. But, for the few electric gigs I do do (snicker) it's kinda fun. 

Even if most, if not all of what I play on electric mando can be replicated by an electric guitar, the fact remains, I don't play guitar.

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## Mike Bunting

> Mike, I really liked the Johnny Gimble clip. Was that Paul Anastasio on fiddle?


Yes, it was.

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## empire

If an electric mandolin sounds so much like an Electric Guitar...why bother using electric mandolin? Might as well play an ELectric GUitar that has a wider range overall and is more versatile.

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## mandelect

> If an electric mandolin sounds so much like an Electric Guitar...why bother using electric mandolin? Might as well play an ELectric GUitar that has a wider range overall and is more versatile.


Electric mandolin does *not* always sound like electric guitar - have a listen to U Srinivas and U Rajesh!

I bother because I choose to ...and it really is no bother to me at all. Why does it bother you so much?

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## 250sc

> If an electric mandolin sounds so much like an Electric Guitar...why bother using electric mandolin? Might as well play an ELectric GUitar that has a wider range overall and is more versatile.


That is pretty much how I feel about it. If you know how to play mando and not guitar, electric mando is fine but it will sound like an electric guitar even with the different voicings due to tuning. This isn't meant as a negitive statement just my oppinion from observation.

Bottom line for me is all music is good. Use the instrument that is the best vehicle for you.

"Electric mandolin does not always sound like electric guitar - have a listen to U Srinivas and U Rajesh!"

Sorry, I've never hear these people but do they sound like they're playing mandolin or an electric instrument tuned like one? With effects and synth pickups for guitar, guitar doesn't even sound like electric guitar.

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## Ben Milne

I tend to think most electric guitars just sound like electric mandolins with different voicings and a lower register...  I don't know why so many people bother with them...

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## 250sc

Lol

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## journeybear

Dang, Ben! *I* was going to say just that!  :Laughing: 

There is a certain amount of familiarity and perspective one has to sort out to see things that way. Since electric guitar has been such a big part of our cultural background music for so long, any other electric fretted string instrument will tend to be compared to it. If Leo Fender had built the electric F-5 instead of the Stratocaster, things might have been the other way around.  :Wink:

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## journeybear

> ... Even if most, if not all of what I play on electric mando can be replicated by an electric guitar, the fact remains, I don't play guitar.





> ... I bother because I choose to ...and it really is no bother to me at all. Why does it bother you so much?


I am a rocker who plays mandolin, so it is natural to express this part of my musicality with the electric mandolin. Basically, an electric mandolin enables people who play mandolin to play an electric instrument with all its characteristic qualities and capabilities. An electric violin does the same for violinists, an electric cello does the same for cellists, an electric bass does the same for bassists, and so on. Bela Fleck plays acoustic and electric banjo, and produces extraordinary music on both, but they are very different instruments with unique characteristics. _Vive la difference_!

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## thistle3585

> If an electric mandolin sounds so much like an Electric Guitar...why bother using electric mandolin? Might as well play an ELectric GUitar that has a wider range overall and is more versatile.


If you take  a straight up electric mandolin and electric guitar, no effects or anything, they aren't going to sound the same.  Whats more attractive than anything else about electric instruments are the amount of effects that are available to get whatever sound that you are after and probably fuels more musical creativity than a standard acoustic instrument. I feel sorry for all those players that limit themselves by only using acoustic instruments.

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## Dobe

Not a big fan, but that's just me. Might just need more time with one & a good amp. Not enough time right now for everything else. I think I'm pretty much full with my current addictions. If I did get one it would have to be an 8-string. Just don't seem like a mando to me with single strings. It's all good though !   :Mandosmiley:

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## JeffD

> If you take  a straight up electric mandolin and electric guitar, no effects or anything, they aren't going to sound the same.  Whats more attractive than anything else about electric instruments are the amount of effects that are available to get whatever sound that you are after and probably fuels more musical creativity than a standard acoustic instrument. I feel sorry for all those players that limit themselves by only using acoustic instruments.


I am limited by time and genetics much more than by a limited number of effects!!

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## mandroid

I see a range, Acoustic played into a Mic,> pickup on a acoustic soundboard,> 
magnetic pickup on a hollow bodied one,>and a solid body with a magnetic pickup, .. 

so it's a How much electric, as well as the 4, 5, 8 or 10 string? questions.

 :Whistling:

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## JeffD

> If an electric mandolin sounds so much like an Electric Guitar...why bother using electric mandolin? Might as well play an ELectric GUitar that has a wider range overall and is more versatile.


Because of how much sense an instrument makes when tuned in fifths, one might ask, if the electric mandolin sounds so much like the electric guitar, why bother using an electric guitar?

I think the problem really is that the electric mandolin sounds (very often) closer to the electric guitar than it does to the accoustic mandolin. The electric violin does not have a similar problem, and is a natural expressive progression of the violin. The mandolin tries the same thing and bumps into the space held by the electric guitar.

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## JeffD

> Does it matter? I'd hate to think that just because I play the mandolin, I'm obliged to sound like somebody else's idea of what "traditional" mandolin should sound like - acoustic, electric or otherwise.


I agree with the general sentiment, we should do what ever we like - there is no obligation to conform to anyone's idea of anything. There is a great Frank Zappa quote about music: "I consider that the building materials are exactly the same as what anybody else makes the thing out of. ... Time and those waves are at the disposal of anyone who wants to use them." 

That being said I have a preference for the things an electric mandolin does better (ok perhaps differently) than the electric guitar. Doesn't have to emulate an accoustic, but there must be some advantage in not being a guitar.

Because the next time someone says, "Wow, I like your little guitar." it would be cool to have something better to say than: "Its not a guitar its a mandolin, very different from a guitar, except, of course, for how it looks, how it sounds, and how its played."

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## 250sc

JeffD,

The tuning for me is a non issue since I don't have issues with either tuning and spent years playing pedal steel where the tuning is changing every time you hit a pedal or knee lever or both. When you know how music works the instrument is secondary. None of them sound any good unless they're played.

"I think the problem really is that the electric mandolin sounds (very often) closer to the electric guitar than it does to the accoustic mandolin. The electric violin does not have a similar problem, and is a natural expressive progression of the violin. The mandolin tries the same thing and bumps into the space held by the electric guitar."

Agreed. 100%

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## JeffD

> When you know how music works the instrument is secondary. None of them sound any good unless they're played.


Ultimately that is correct. But musical ideas and expressive don't come (for most people) out of some musical muse, that then gets translated into the instrument we happen to be playing. It comes from how playing the instrument(s) we have for so long has changed our brain. Our individual conceptions of what music is and what is possible in music is gigantically biased by the instrument we spend most of our time playing. (Which is why learning a second or third instrument often makes us more creative and better at the first.) 

A guitarist thinks like a guitarist and composes like a guitarist. A pianist like a pianist. A clarinet player... etc. A serious multi-intrumentalist, I suppose, can get to that place you describe, where its all music, but even then its really not all music, its the interesting amalgam of all the instruments played.

Your pedal steel experience breaks the hold a fixed tuning might have, my mandolin breaks the hold that a woodwinds single note melody line had on me, and freed me from the black and white key thinking of the piano.

I guess I am looking for of the mandolin conception of music, oh what those fifths can do, in the electric mandolin music I listen to.

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## rico mando

I think the real question is do new electric mandolins open up when they get played in  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Grin:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

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## journeybear

> ...The mandolin tries the same thing and bumps into the space held by the electric guitar.


Yep - but only because the guitar got there first. To my line of thinking. And, if I may paraphrase Jimi Hendrix (mize well borrow from the best): "Move over, Rover, and let Journey take over!"  :Grin:   :Mandosmiley:   :Cool:

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## journeybear

Interesting that the pedal steel got mentioned, but for two different reasons. One is that I have always been a little puzzled as to how it got its name, as it has a whole lot more strings than a guitar. Not that I am advocating it be called a "pedal steel _lute_," mind you, nor that I am oblivious to its evolving from the slack key or steel guitar, which was state-of-the-art in Hank Williams' day; just that it really isn't that similar to a guitar. But then again, common parlance for fretted string instruments with wooden bodies seems to be "guitar-of-some-sort," and I don't feel like tilting at that windmill. Today.  :Wink: 

The other is: Monday night, I ran into a ridiculous level of equipment malfunction, and one by one unplugged my gizmos to isolate which was giving me fits, until I realized it was the wah-wah. By then I was down to just the EQ/preamp, which I turned all the way up and pulled down the gain on the board to get a bit of distortion, and turned the reverb way up on the board for sustain, thus fairly well replicating what I get from my main effects unit. This was in the middle of a set, so I was making changes between songs, and once or twice even during a verse when I had to play a riff between verses. This was so much fun - not! I even had to finish the second set playing acoustic through my vocal mike. Once I had isolated the problem, I plugged back through the other effects unit, which has a wah-wah function, though not as groovy as the Morley volume/wah. The point I am (belatedly) getting to, is that even in this new setting, I was able to get some familiar sounds, and also discover new territory, in which I found myself getting some very pedal-steel-like tones. In fact, a lot of times I was getting something like what pedal steel harmonics sound like, since I was in that register. I'm not saying that pedal steel, or guitar for that matter, couldn't do what I was doing there, but because I was doing this on my cheap little MandoBird, this was living proof of what I often say, and have said earlier - this is the instrument I play in order to make the music I hear in my mind, and it is my ability more than the instrument that is the key factor in achieving this. For the last half hour of our set, I felt like I was in a state of grace, even more sweet because I was rising out of a deep morass of frustration to reach this. It's moments like this - more than when everything is going smoothly - when I feel most like a professional, as I am able to use all the technique and experience I have accumulated topull a rabbit out of a hat, or make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am going to spend some time sorting out my gear to see if I can't get it to create this sound again reliably, and at will.

OK, thanks for letting me bend your ears. As you were ...  :Mandosmiley:

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## Dan Hoover

you gotta plug in once in awhile..

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## Polecat

I love my electric mandoline, a solidbody 8 string I had custom built about 15 years ago - the main problem with electric mandolines is that more or less everything, except the wood and the frets is borrowed from the electric guitar world, be it the amps we use, the effects or whatever. After trying out a Vox AC30, a Fender super sixty and a Boogie studio 22, I came to the fairly obvious conclusion that a mandoline will never sound truly like itself if you plug it into a guitar amp, and the thing to do is to modify the amp so it "bends" the signal mandolinistically. After talking to amp techs I realized that getting the job done professionally was going to be prohibitively expensive and came to the conclusion that the only thing to do was build an amp to do the job. I duly procured literature and started researching, only to discover that the whole theory of what goes on in a guitar amplifier is neither clear nor comprehensible. After talking the matter over with my father (an electronic engineer who started his career in the age of valves), who made it clear to me that the part of the amp mainly responsible for the sound is (surprise surprise!) the tone control circuit, and suggested I change the values of the capacitors in this part of the design and "suck it and see", I built a 15 Watt amp that sounds more like a mandoline than anything (I found) commercially available. That solved the problem for me - I´ve used my electric mandoline in swing, rock and punk settings, and apart from swing music (where the electric solved the purely physical problem of being loud enough without feedback issues), the timbre of an electric mandoline through a suitable amplifier is very different from both accoustic mandoline and electric guitar, and allows me to play music that would be impossible any other way. 

Yours

The Polecat

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## Alex Orr

It seems that a lot of folks who don't like 'em say the problem is they don't sound like a mandolin but instead like a less dynamic electric guitar, so why not just play electric guitar?  Well, some of us feel far more comfortable on a mandolin, but like to have the option of having that mandolin sound like an electric guitar, which is why I enjoy my e-mando (a Rono 5-string).  If I had enough time to devote to learning both electric guitar and mandolin, I'd do it, and probably not care about the e-mando, but as it is, like most adult hobbyist musicians, I don't even have enough time in my life to spend with the one instrument, let alone give quality time to two different instruments.  So, I enjoy being able to take my acoustic mandolin to bluegrass jams and sometimes sit in with my electric guitar and drum playing friends and crank up my e-mando.

Now, if I win the lottery, quit working entirely and have all that time to learning instruments and playing music...well...that would be adiferent story.

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## Mandolin Mick

Every electric mandolin that I've seen or heard played, sounded like a low-rent guitar, or at best just like an electric guitar.

I have nothing against them at all, I just don't have any desire to play one. I'm a guitarist and I don't like electric guitars either ...  :Wink: 

However, I'm a bassist as well and only like to play electric bass ... go figure ...  :Laughing:

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## Mike Bunting

Tiny Moore, Johnny Gimble, Paul Glasse all sound great on the electric and doesn't sound like a guitar to me at all.

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## Glassweb

yes, but the 4 and 5 string electrics definitely _don't_ sound like a mandolin either.

for me, if it ain't got 8 strings... it's some other thing...

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## Ed Goist

Did I mention Jeff Bird?  :Grin:

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## rico mando

> yes, but the 4 and 5 string electrics definitely _don't_ sound like a mandolin either.
> 
> for me, if it ain't got 8 strings... it's some other thing...


i will agree to that . i do not really feel that they are a mandolin either and i have no problem with that statement

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## Jerry Turberville

Geez, I thoiught it was just me!!  I've noticed the same thing Rico mentioned.  Accomplished guitarist aren't threatened in any way by the electric mandolin, whereas the negative "you're just a wanna be guitar player" comments are usually coming from someone who feels up staged in some way.  I'd also agree there's some things that can't be (easily) done on the guitar that can on the mandolin and some things that aren't (easily) done on the mandolin that are staraight forward on the guitar.  
I also hear a definate tonal difference on some electric mandolins vs an electric guitar.  I'm specifically refering to 4 & 5 stringed instruments.   Granted those tones can probably be closely duplicated on a guitar, but I still hear a difference in the tone.  
There's times a beautiful acoustic sound is just right, and other times the emando is perect (for me).  I think there's room for all of it.   If there were rules about what instrument could be used for each gnere of music we'd be a pretty dull lot.

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## Ed Goist

If you don't find in this clip an exciting, interesting, intelligent, entertaining and refreshing use of our wonderful little instrument, then our personal perspectives on this question are so different, incompatible and non-aligned that further discussion will lead not to edification.

What I'm saying here is that taste is a huge part of this equation. We can debate about this all night, but it's an argument that will never be won by either side on the merits...

Rock On Rico!

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## Mike Bunting

> Did I mention Jeff Bird?


When don't you mention Jeff Bird.  :Smile:

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## thistle3585

It could be worse. I had a friend bring me a solid body electric banjo for some electronic repair work.  I asked him how I was supposed to tell whether I got it sounding good or not.

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## mrmando

> for me, if it ain't got 8 strings... it's some other thing...


If we surveyed the history of the _mandolino_ in Italy, we'd find instruments with 12 strings (Lombardian, Genovese), 10 strings (Venetian), 4 strings (Cremonese), and 6 strings (Brescian) ... but you're telling us only the Neapolitan (and, later, Roman) is fit to be called a mandolin.

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## i-vibe

> yes, but the 4 and 5 string electrics definitely _don't_ sound like a mandolin either.
> 
> for me, if it ain't got 8 strings... it's some other thing...



that.

well, i'm gonna soft peddle that some. i'm not saying it's NOT a mandolin.....but for me the double courses are a huge part of the picture. and i must say that all the comparisons of elec mando to elec gtr....well, they're not as viable when the mando has double courses.

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## i-vibe

...and i LOVE playing my old KAY hollowbody w that funky ass lipstick tube p/u. just wish i could get more than HALF the volume of the G's and D's on my treble strings! aaaaaargh.

i've got the pickup height slanted as far as it will go and i swear....on sunday's gig i was really getting frustrated and was ready to drop in something w adjustable pole pieces! thankfully cooler heads prevailed the next day and i guess i'm gonna live w it...for now.

hmmmm, maybe yet another use for duct tape? cover the bass side of the p/u ????? hmmmmm.

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## Travis Wilson

There are technical, aural, pragmatic, and other such answers on this thread.  For me, the answer is really very simple and nothing about which I need to feel agitated or slighted.

Playing a musical instrument is fun. I have fun playing my acoustic, and I have fun playing my electric.  I like them both.

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## rico mando

> ...and i LOVE playing my old KAY hollowbody w that funky ass lipstick tube p/u. just wish i could get more than HALF the volume of the G's and D's on my treble strings! aaaaaargh.
> 
> i've got the pickup height slanted as far as it will go and i swear....on sunday's gig i was really getting frustrated and was ready to drop in something w adjustable pole pieces! thankfully cooler heads prevailed the next day and i guess i'm gonna live w it...for now.
> 
> hmmmm, maybe yet another use for duct tape? cover the bass side of the p/u ????? hmmmmm.


Maybe the pup was wired to be used with phosphor bronze or bronze strings ? that is assuming your using nickel or steel . you could also try silk wound  or heavier A & E strings .

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## Perry

> If you don't find in this clip an exciting, interesting, intelligent, entertaining and refreshing use of our wonderful little instrument, then our personal perspectives on this question are so different, incompatible and non-aligned that further discussion will lead not to edification.


Still despite the apparent futility of my response to your post I'd rather hear Rico play this on an electric guitar and I bet he could. An electric mandolin is not the best tool for this type of music. No offense intended. Heck even Johnny Gimble tuned his electric like a mandola. I think a five string makes a lot more sense. 

There's just a tonality and response of an electric mandolin through and amp and effects that just don't sit right with me anymore. The tension on the strings...a slight bend while fretting can be awkward...the effects don't respond well.

That said as mentioned in my earlier post on this thread everybody needs to hear Richard Thompson play a four string electric as on the Niles electric mandolin course.

Also Michael Lampert plays some nice jazz stuff on his four string.

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## delsbrother

> That said as mentioned in my earlier post on this thread everybody needs to hear Richard Thompson play a four string electric as on the Niles electric mandolin course.


OK, how would we go about doing that? The course is long out of print, impossible to find, and apparently never going to be reissued. Are there any tracks on RT albums that showcase a similar style of playing?

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## Elliot Luber

I have tickets for Richard Sunday Night on Long Island, but it's a solo acoustic show. Not much chance of him playing four-string electric.

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## Perry

> OK, how would we go about doing that? The course is long out of print, impossible to find, and apparently never going to be reissued. Are there any tracks on RT albums that showcase a similar style of playing?


Sorry...I don't know the answer.

To my knowledge it's the only recorded RT electric mandolin. To hear him bend strings on an electric mandolin is a revelation.I had the course with accompanying cassette(s) and sold it many moons ago. 

Maybe Niles could post a few MP3's for us? Maybe someone else?

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## thistle3585

> OK, how would we go about doing that? The course is long out of print, impossible to find, and apparently never going to be reissued. Are there any tracks on RT albums that showcase a similar style of playing?



I have it.  I also have an old album of Niles' and I think it might have Richard on it too.  

You really don't have to go far to find very fine emando recordings.  There are a lot of people that think emandos are novelty instruments, but there are some fine examples of electric mandolin playing that you couldn't make work with a guitar or another instrument and there are also a lot of recordings where anything but a mandolin should have been used.  When all is said and done, I don't really see why I need to justify why I play what I play.

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## Glassweb

> If we surveyed the history of the _mandolino_ in Italy, we'd find instruments with 12 strings (Lombardian, Genovese), 10 strings (Venetian), 4 strings (Cremonese), and 6 strings (Brescian) ... but you're telling us only the Neapolitan (and, later, Roman) is fit to be called a mandolin.


Yes.

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## doc holiday

"our personal perspectives on this question are so different, incompatible and non-aligned that further discussion"... would be futile.
Tiny Moore, the great Johnny Gimble & our own Paul Glasse.....now that's another story  ....:-)

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## journeybear

> There are a lot of people that think emandos are novelty instruments, but there are some fine examples of electric mandolin playing that you couldn't make work with a guitar or another instrument and there are also a lot of recordings where anything but a mandolin should have been used.  When all is said and done, I don't really see why I need to justify why I play what I play.


I don't either. I like a lot of different types of music, and I like playing a lot of different types of music, but the only instrument I can play reasonably well is mandolin, so I will play what I want on the instrument I can play. It's really not much more complicated than that. Suggesting I not do so because that music isn't right for the instrument or the instrument isn't right for that music is pretty close-minded, and actually insulting. Suggesting I not do so because I'm not talented is a valid opinion, though, which I tend to disagree with - though every now and then I feel is justified.  :Wink: 

Now, an electric solid body single string mandolin doesn't sound like an acoustic mandolin, but then again, an electric solid body single string guitar doesn't sound like an acoustic twelve string guitar. Some songs and genres call for the use of one or the other, and at a gig I have both and swap out often. I have to be ready to do this quickly because my guitarist/singer calls the tunes and flies by the seat of his pants. Sometimes I play songs on the instrument I would rather not, and have to make it work somehow. I don't recommend playing a burning rock lead on an acoustic or bluegrass on an electric, but it can be done. Musicians are limited by their abilities and imaginations, but also empowered by them.

In other words, an electric solid body single string mandolin doesn't sound like an acoustic mandolin, but then again, an electric solid body single string guitar doesn't sound like an acoustic twelve string guitar. So?

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## mrmando

> you're telling us only the Neapolitan (and, later, Roman) is fit to be called a mandolin.





> Yes.


Well, Adam, I really don't know what to tell you, then ... apparently you want to pretend the first 200 years of the instrument's development didn't happen. Stradivari made a 10-string instrument and called it a mandolin. What _should_ he have called it, according to you?

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## i-vibe

> Maybe the pup was wired to be used with phosphor bronze or bronze strings ? that is assuming your using nickel or steel . you could also try silk wound  or heavier A & E strings .


thanks for the words rico. 

i've tried just about every string possible. nickel, stainless steel, bronze, and for quite a while i've been using TI's w swapped out heavier .011's and .016's. 

i do like the tone of this p/u...just wish it was little more evenly balanced. compression helps a little but i guess it's probably just the nature of the beast as i've heard similar complaints from other el mando players.

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## hhold

Emandos like a lot of electric instruments are fun toys to play with. Single course emandos are better than guitars cause less cumbersome and you don't have to relearn the fretboard again.

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## Avi Ziv

> I have tickets for Richard Sunday Night on Long Island, but it's a solo acoustic show. Not much chance of him playing four-string electric.


I saw RT's solo show in Princeton this past spring. Superb on all levels but no electric instruments. He did however generate huge and deep sound with his amplified acoustic guitar and a great sound engineer.

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## journeybear

> Emandos like a lot of electric instruments are fun toys to play with. Single course emandos are better than guitars cause less cumbersome and you don't have to relearn the fretboard again.


Exactly. Starting out on acoustic mandolin as most of us do and wanting to rock out like some of us do, electric mandolin was the obvious means to that end. Suppose the situation were reversed, and we lived in a world in which emandos were the basic instrument of rock (ahhh!), and someone grew up playing guitar but wanted to rock out. For him an electric guitar would enable him doing this without him having to learn to play another instrument.

What's the big deal? Seems like such a non-issue to me.

I just wish emandos had gotten as much R & D as electric guitars, so they would sound as full and strong. I wish my MandoBird sounded as monstrous as rico mando's axe in post #61. A kid should be able to buy something like that off the rack and not have to do all the refitting and tweaking I see so many have done to get their emandos to sound right.

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## JeffD

> If you don't find in this clip an exciting, interesting, intelligent, entertaining and refreshing use of our wonderful little instrument, then our personal perspectives on this question are so different, incompatible and non-aligned that further discussion will lead not to edification.


Well let me try.  :Smile: 

Whether what was done in the video is to my taste or not, whether I have familiarity with the particular piece or not, I didn't see anything there that required an electric mandolin. An electric guitar might not have been as much fun to play, but it would have perhaps been better at getting done what he was trying to do. 

What could he have done on that emando that only an emando could do well.

Its not an electric thing with m either. For example, I don't care for hard strummed chord banging on an accoustic mandolin, when a fine vintage Guild guitar would do the job better.

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## JeffD

> Exactly. Starting out on acoustic mandolin as most of us do and wanting to rock out like some of us do, electric mandolin was the obvious means to that end. .


Avoiding those who had a tendancy to "rock out" was what drew me to the mandolin.   Oh... ummm...  well I'm just sayin...   :Smile:

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## journeybear

For me the question isn't whether a guitar could better express the musician's intent, but how an emando can. If I want to play rock or blues (or country or pop or R&B or swing or (if I ever) jazz), it is more likely to be on an electric than an acoustic, even an amplified acoustic. There are tonal and stylistic considerations that are more satisfyingly addressed through playing a solid body single string instrument with magnetic pickups. If I could play guitar I would. But I play mandolin, so that is the logical choice.

And I should point out, this is not an exclusive choice. A good example is "Copperhead Road," which I do on the acoustic. And believe me, when we reach the point in the song, after the second refrain, when those loud hits come in before the instrumental, that is consistently one of the best parts of a gig for me. It is really satisfying to get that much power out of an amplified acoustic instrument. And the solo after that, while often challenging, can be a real thrill - finding a way to build on that set-up takes some doing, but it almost always takes me exactly where I want to go, which is showing people what a great instrument the mandolin is. I don't care whether it is with an acoustic or electric, if I am able to demonstrate what a mandolin can do to my satisfaction and the audience's enjoyment, then I have done what I have set out to do - for a little while, anyway.  :Wink:

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## JeffD

Best tool for the job. And for what job is the emando the best tool?

Western Swing of course!!!

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## Ed Goist

> Well let me try. 
> ...snip...
> What could he have done on that emando that only an emando could do well.
> ...snip...


Jeff; I don't understand for the life of me why this question matters.

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## rico mando

There is nothing wrong with JEFFD 's opinion . i appreciate him sharing and respect his right to have his own thoughts on the matter . But what i would really love to see is a video/audio of him showing us how its done . or any one else for or against willing to back up their own opinion with their own music . its not a competition , he who has the most fun wins

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## MANDOHIO

> Best tool for the job. And for what job is the emando the best tool?
> 
> Western Swing of course!!!


I agree...and remember, _Western Swing Ain't Dead_, it's *ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL*.

Although Jason Roberts does play a Gibson EM-150, not a 4-string Mando...

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## JeffD

> There is nothing wrong with JEFFD 's opinion . i appreciate him sharing and respect his right to have his own thoughts on the matter . But what i would really love to see is a video/audio of him showing us how its done .


Oh well umm...   :Smile: 

No I of course couldn't do that. Can't claim that skill. 

But even more to the point, I am not commenting at all at how well it was played or how good it sounded or how much I like it. I am only commenting on the narrowly defined subject of "does the artist achieve what he or she has set out to achieve". And within that school of opinion I am addressing the specific idea of "would another tool have made the job easier or done the job better".

That being said, I get your point.   :Smile: 

What I could perhaps do (another thread on this topic this might be something interesting) is offer up videos and examples of mandolin playing that is not just good, but is particularly mandolinny.

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## JeffD

> Jeff; I don't understand for the life of me why this question matters.


Well let me take a stab at a splanation.

Two things. One: I have a lot of friends who are really into movies. Much more than I am. And the range of tastes in movies out there is amazing. I am often finding myself in discussion (over coffee or adult beverages) about the merits of movies that are not my cup of tea at all. Given the range of movies out there, and the narrow range of my specific interest in movies, I had to come up with a way to talk about these things intelligently.  So I adopted something I read from the movie critic Roger Ebert (I think), which is to try and figure out what the movie is trying to do, and then you can comment on whether it was effective doing it.  Regardless if I would personally like or dislike a movie that would do have done it well.

So while my tastes in music are much (much) wider than my taste in movies, I kind of look at it the same way.

Second: I am particularly sensitive to the integrity of the mandolin. Maybe this is a non issue to most folks but for some reason I am stuck on it. I got the idea from something Dave Grisman said, many years ago, I think it was in responding to playing fiddle tunes on a mandolin as single note melody, trying hard to be a fiddle.

The idea is that there is so much about the mandolin that is unique and wonderful. It is its own instrument, has its own integrity. It erks me when the mandolin is being used as a substitute for something else, or a pale imitation of another instrument, either deliberately, by accident, or even for fun. I dunno it just bugs me. The mandolin is not ever going to be as good at being a fiddle as a fiddle is. It is never going to be as good a guitar as a guitar is. And I like mandolin best when the playing is doing stuff that the mandolin is particularly suited for. 

So I would not say the question matters. But it matters to me.

Here is an example. I have a friend of mine who is a pretty good guitar player. He recently bought a six string banjo (banjotar?) and he tunes it like a guitar and plays it like a guitar and does all his guitar things on it. But now he calls himself a banjo player. Huh?

So I just ask the question. Of all of us. When we play. What could we be doing on our mandolins that is more mandolinny, that is something the mandolin does best, not an almost something else. Our instrument is wonderful, not just because its more portable than a guitar, and not just because its frets make intonation easier than on fiddle. The mandolin is wonderful because its the only instrument that can play like a mandolin. Its wonderful in its own way, not in comparison to some other way.

Of course, everybody can and should do whatever they want. I would never say otherwise. Enjoy stuff the way you want to enjoy stuff. But if someone asks me what I think about what they are doing, I am going to look at things through my lense and comment. 

Not in a mean way, I hope, but in an honest way. I hope.

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## Jim Nollman

> I didn't see anything there that required an electric mandolin.


I own wonderful examples of acoustic and electric mandolin. I reach for the electric in three specific situations. The first two are mostly occasional for me, although certainly many electric players deal with such situations all the time. The third example is something i do all the time.

1. Playing blues or rock or jazz onstage when everybody else is amplified. To play an acoustic instrument in such a situation would assure that the other players will get annoyed enough to drown me out, because I'm by far the weakest link in the volume/tone chain. 

2. Playing at a contra dance in a hall with a minimal, or even no PA. The bass, the fiddle, and electric piano are louder than me. In that case, I'll bring my A8 and plug it into my Fishman Loudbox. Nice balance. 

3. For recording, I plug the electric's 1/4 inch cord straight into the 1/4 input on the board. The result is a clean signal with none of the complex overtones of an acoustic. Once i have it recorded, I use plugin software called Melodyne to convert the mandolin performance to MIDI. Then I assign a sample to it. Melodyne doesn't grab the notes of an acoustic nearly as well. You can hear one example of this, below in my signature. The piano in the recording was actually played on a Godin A8, then converted to MIDI, and assigned to a dedicated piano sampler. When you hear chords in that performance, it's not because i played those dense piano clusters on the mandolin, (not sure anybody could do that, live) but because a MIDI track is a digital staff that lets me compose harmonies using a mouse. 

I'm curious if other electric mandolin players are doing #3.

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## rico mando

> (not sure anybody could do that, live)  
> 
> I'm curious if other electric mandolin players are doing #3.


Hey jim pm me and give me your  email and i will send you a mp3 of straight piano chords from my electric 5 string mandolin recorded live in real time if you like . 

here is a video of me doing full chord organ on my mandolin . not one of our better shows but in our defense we only practiced the song 4 times and probably should not have put it in the set . it is just me playing at first 



PS  the effect is called hitchcock and that is not latency but auto swell .

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## Denny Gies

I would not use the word hate to describe the electric mandolin sound.....but I much prefer the acoustic sounds that come out of a good mandolin.

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## rico mando

That is funny .electric  guitar players actually think i am trying to sound like a electric guitar LMAO . the hubris of it all ." electrified strings belong to us and all the effects that go with it . its our territory and any thing else is a pale copy ." here i thought i was exploring new sonic territory on a seldom seen instrument . the ego of some musicians  to have such a mind set . i thought everyone borrowed licks from each other regardless of the instrument being played. 

Having said this after posting a video of me trying to sound like an organ is quite hypocritical of me don't you think ?

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## mrmando

> Second: I am particularly sensitive to the integrity of the mandolin. Maybe this is a non issue to most folks but for some reason I am stuck on it. I got the idea from something Dave Grisman said, many years ago, I think it was in responding to playing fiddle tunes on a mandolin as single note melody, trying hard to be a fiddle.


Pshaw. As if fiddlers never used double stops ... 

So, when Joe Venuti used the loosened hair of his bow to play four-note chord melody, what was that? Fiddle trying hard to be a mandolin?

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## Beanzy

This question is like asking if you like your eggs boiled, fried, poached or scrambled. 
You may hate one, but it's still a valid food from the same source, some people may prefer it different. 
You could do it with ducks eggs too and they may be more to your taste.

Maybe electric mandolin is just the scrambled ducks eggs of the music world, and effects are just whatever sauce you put on them.
They're still eggs / mandolins. (in fact I'm sure I've seen a few e-mandos which look like they came out of a...... no, not going there)

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## Ed Goist

Very well articulated Jeff. I can see why it matters to you.

Now, since I completely agree with what Beanzy says above (_...and I'll have mine over-easy with rye toast, BTW_), I bid this thread adieu.

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## CES

Electric guitar is better at being an electric guitar than a Mandobird.  Now that that's settled, I think I'll go play my Mandobird, because I like the way the little sucker feels and sounds.  Very different voice than my Tele, as well.

To those of you who think emandos are pointless given the existence of electric guitar, I would ask that you consider that that logic makes all of our instruments irrelevant...you can produce almost anything digitally these days without actually playing an instrument.  So why should any of us bother?  Which brings us to the question of why we play in the first place...answer that, and attempt to understand that, for some, playing an emando is their answer to that question, and you'll understand why some of us "bother."

Rico, nice job, btw!

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## JeffD

> Pshaw. As if fiddlers never used double stops ... 
> 
> So, when Joe Venuti used the loosened hair of his bow to play four-note chord melody, what was that? Fiddle trying hard to be a mandolin?


Its a matter of degree. Certainly we all get inspiration from each other and each other's sound. (I like to emulate the phrasing of vocals in my playing).

But, for example, there was a fellow a little bit ago who took up the mandolin as a new instrument, tuned it in forths so that he could easily transfer his guitar riffs over to mandolin. To my taste that just erks me.

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## JeffD

> This question is like asking if you like your eggs boiled, fried, poached or scrambled. 
> You may hate one, but it's still a valid food from the same source, some people may prefer it different. 
> You could do it with ducks eggs too and they may be more to your taste.


There it is.

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## JeffD

[QUOTE]


> here i thought i was exploring new sonic territory on a seldom seen instrument .


Well, like all pioneers, you have to put up with the slings and arrows.  :Smile: 






> i thought everyone borrowed licks from each other regardless of the instrument being played.


Thats true, and a good thing. Borrowing licks is different from emulation.

I think one doesn't have to "try" to make an electric mandolin sound enough like a guitar as to be confusing. To many (most?) it does it on its own. And for some, thats what they like about it. 

Its like one almost has to push back to avoid it sounding like an electric guitar.

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## JeffD

> Having said this after posting a video of me trying to sound like an organ is quite hypocritical of me don't you think ?


 :Laughing:   Its a cool effect.

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## JeffD

> So why should any of us bother?  Which brings us to the question of why we play in the first place...answer that, and attempt to understand that, for some, playing an emando is their answer to that question, and you'll understand why some of us "bother."


Well said!

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## bobby bill

> Borrowing licks is different from emulation.


Unless you are borrowing licks from Jimi Hendrix.  Oh, wait, that's immolation.

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## CES

> Having said this after posting a video of me trying to sound like an organ is quite hypocritical of me don't you think ?


 :Laughing: 

I would say that your "hypocrisy only goes so far..."  (love me some Tombstone!)

Cool effect...

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## Jim Nollman

my only problem with MANY electric mandolins is the very unnatural envelope produced; specifically pick click which adds a sharp transient to the attack of every note. It is the result of several things working together, including the highs being boosted by an amp that is most often made for amplifying guitar sound, the strings being so much tighter on mandolin than on a guitar, magnetic pickups that over-accentuate the sound of a pick banging against double strings so forcefully. The Godin mostly solved this problem for me by not using magnetic pickups, and giving me onboard EQ to constantly tweak the highs. 

I've often wondered if the premier emando builders are winding their own pickups to confront the issues of mandolin tone, rather than simply installing commercial pickups which have a 100% chance of being engineered for guitar tone.

The limits and excesses of Purism are being argued, debated, discussed in hundreds of threads on this forum. Read half a hundred of them, and you may agree that it's mostly a religious issue.

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## Steve Ostrander

I like Michael Kang's playing with String Cheese Incident.

I've never played an emando, and know practically nothing about them. Do they have a lack of sustain, as their acoustic cousins do? Maybe lack is the wrong term, but less than a guitar, because of the string length?

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## rico mando

Thanks to all who liked my video's , i am not worthy . in regards to the first video posted by ED . to be honest i am using a  multi-effects unit  that sucks tone and the distortion effect is functional at best . but the spirit is there . here is a recording i did using nothing more than an my 5-string mandolin jacked into a mesa boogie 5:25 express amp . recorded into a tascam DP-02 porta-studio through a SM-57 . this was my first attempt at recording an amp and only had the amp for a few days. here is true tube distortion . feel free to like or not like the sound but at least this will either be the mandolin or the amp your not into and not just the poor effects generated by the Boss GT-10.http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10479138 .this link will bring you to a site that hosts my mp3s it will play the song no down loading required

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## mrmando

> But, for example, there was a fellow a little bit ago who took up the mandolin as a new instrument, tuned it in forths so that he could easily transfer his guitar riffs over to mandolin. To my taste that just erks me.


On the other hand, if Vivaldi were here, he'd be scratching his head over people playing his concerti on mandolins tuned in fifths, since the instrument he wrote them for was tuned primarily in fourths.

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## JeffD

> Originally Posted by JeffD  
> But, for example, there was a fellow a little bit ago who took up the mandolin as a new instrument, tuned it in forths so that he could easily transfer his guitar riffs over to mandolin. To my taste that just erks me.






> On the other hand, if Vivaldi were here, he'd be scratching his head over people playing his concerti on mandolins tuned in fifths, since the instrument he wrote them for was tuned primarily in fourths.


Its not the fifths or fourths that bothers me, it was the fellow saying, to himself, and to others, "well now I am a mandolin player".

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## mrmando

> Its not the fifths or fourths that bothers me, it was the fellow saying, to himself, and to others, "well now I am a mandolin player".


Well, maybe you should get even by taking up the tenor guitar.

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## journeybear

> The idea is that there is so much about the mandolin that is unique and wonderful. It is its own instrument, has its own integrity. It erks me when the mandolin is being used as a substitute for something else ...


I don't think the emando is being used as a substitute. It is its own instrument and has its own integrity. My experience with it leads me to believe it is different from yet similar to an acoustic mandolin, and I play each in a way that corresponds to the unique capabilities of each. Both serve as a means for self-expression, for realizing the musical ideas I produce in my imagination, which vary for each piece I am playing. To my line of thinking, the relation between the two is comparable to that between a 12-string and an electric guitar. I just wish that more R & D would go into creating pickups, amps, and effects specifically designed for electric mandolins so they would sound better, and playing them wouldn't involve so much tweaking and compromising in order to get them to sound as good as they could, to have the same range of possibilities that are available to electric guitars.

I _would_ like to have an electric mandolin that incorporates the same jangly shimmering sound that attracted me to mandolin in the first place and held my interest long enough to figure out how to play it well enough that I can use it as I described above. I have had problems in the past with an 8-string, mostly keeping the pairs in tune on my EM-150. I ended up going single-string with it, but it lost some punch, and I still had feedback problems. My 4-string MandoBird has renewed my interest in electrics, and part of this is being able to bend strings 2-3 frets and get a fluidity I can't get from an amplified acoustic 8-string. My next step is to see how these strings work on the EM-150, whether they will bend to my liking, whether I still have the problem with tuning, whether those 60-year-old pickups produce a sound in keeping with my current tastes. If not, I am probably going to start shopping around for a good 8-string. As much as I enjoy the MandoBird - and believe me, I am having  a ball with it - I do miss the double-string sound. But right now, given a choice between the two, I would probably stick with the single-string. It suits the kind of music I am playing so well that for the time being I don't feel a great urgency to make any changes. Except maybe to have a better-sounding one, or one with two pickups, or a whammy bar, or a mandolin-mandola double-neck, or ... or ... damn that MAS!

PS: BTW, your friend is _not_ a banjo player; he is a _banjitar_ player.  :Wink: 

PPS: You know what really irks me? People who misspell simple words. At least you are consistent!  :Grin:

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## Dave Greenspoon

Maybe I missed it I suggest that this entire thread had been answered in advance with the release of _Back to Back_. Jethro's A-5 had its place while Tiney's 5-string had its.  Their voices interplay at that point where art intersects with magic on that CD.  Clearly a classic statement of the value that both players bring with their musical partners...their instruments.

I know that in my world, the acoustic/electric sound of my Rigel has its occasions when being miked isn't enough.  The solid body four string Jerman (going to a new home in Boulder soon!) had its uses when a different sound was needed.  Frankly, Dick Dale's _Hava Nagila_ comes off much better on the cranked solid body.  :-)  _Going to California_ likes the Rigel more. 

To those who only see e-mando as a lesser 6 string, think again.  Let's go beyond the five-string. Add the low C, and a high B; you have the next range of 6 string but in perfect fifths.  Hey, the next thing you know there will be capos flyin', pedals stomping, and midi's in the breeze.  Bring it on.

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## journeybear

That's kind of what Maestro Alex Gregory plays, right? But his has _seven_ strings, right?

I can't go there, though. I can't even play a 6-string. Heck, I can barely even play my 5-string Mandocaster. A major reason I can play mandolin (and bass too, for that matter) is it has four courses, a one-to-one correspondence with my four fingers. More strings than that, I get discombobulated.

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## mrmando

> That's kind of what Maestro Alex Gregory plays, right? But his has _seven_ strings, right?


 No, Alex's 7-string guitar is tuned EADGBEA ... a standard guitar with a high A string. I don't think he made any 5ths-tuned instruments with more than 5 strings, unless you count the sympathetic strings on the PentaSitar.

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## journeybear

Oh - _guitar_. OK, thanks for setting me straight. As long as he doesn't play it like a mandolin.  :Wink:

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## Beanzy

> I _would_ like to have an electric mandolin that incorporates the same jangly shimmering sound that attracted me to mandolin ........


Has anyone ever produced a hollow-bodied electric without sound holes to get the tone without so much chance of feedback? I'm just thinking something with a carved 1 piece front and sides with a solid back would get you some of the 'chunky' sound back' for the pick-up to work with. or even monting an internal mic such as the ECM77 in the enclosed chamber under the bridge position could get more of the acoustic qualities with less danger of feed-back.




> I have had problems in the past with an 8-string, mostly keeping the pairs in tune on my EM-150.


 Could this be alleviated by using a single long string doubled around a roller?

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## mrmando

> Has anyone ever produced a hollow-bodied electric without sound holes to get the tone without so much chance of feedback?


There are lots of electric mandolins with tone chambers: Godin, Stevens, Wendler, etc.



> Could this be alleviated by using a single long string doubled around a roller?


That has been discussed here before, and I believe one fellow actually made a prototype to see what would happen. IIRC he discovered that if there's anything harder than keeping two separate strings at the same amount of tension, it's keeping both halves of a single string at the same amount of tension.

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## retroman

> OK, how would we go about doing that? The course is long out of print, impossible to find, and apparently never going to be reissued. Are there any tracks on RT albums that showcase a similar style of playing?


I'm fairly new to mandolin (have an old cheap, but surprisingly good sounding acoustic with a single coil) as well as a recently acquired 1965 Kent 744 solid body 8-string, so I am find all this discussion pretty interesting.  I play them both in a band, when I'm not playing guitar, but tend to prefer the (amplified) acoustic, although the Kent is way cool looking....

As for Richard Thompson, I am a huge fan, but actually did not know that he ever played mandolin.  Coincidentally, I just learned today about the upcoming re-release of his 1981(?) instrumental album "Strict Tempo" on which he plays guitar of course, but also mandolin, mandocello, banjo, bass, and other things (along with Dave Mattacks  percussion)

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## JeffD

> I don't think the emando is being used as a substitute. It is its own instrument and has its own integrity. My experience with it leads me to believe it is different from yet similar to an acoustic mandolin, and I play each in a way that corresponds to the unique capabilities of each. :


Now that is an interesting thought. Hmmmm.

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## journeybear

Well, thanks, I reckon, but as the wise man (or wise guy - Martin Mull, I think) once said, ‎"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."  :Grin:  All I really am doing while playing is try to do my level best at playing as well as I can, what I think is suitable for the song, and not screw up while I'm doing it, or at least not noticeably, or barring that, not too badly. If I can create through the PA what I hear in my head, I am happy, and feel I have accomplished even more than what I described above. But all this analysis of intent and meaning and whatnot is rather after-the-fact, I am way too busy at the moment.  :Wink:  It's just that the one is better than the other in different situations and contexts, and I enjoy playing both. Maybe one day I will have that one instrument on which I can play everything I want - but I keep seeing a lot of people averring this is unlikely, and the solution is to have at least two instruments. That's pretty much where I'm at now in my personal development. And two is really enough, for now ... (Down, MAS! Down!)

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## hellindc

The Godin A8 doesn't give me the same woody sound as my acoustic, but it's not a small guitar either. (Except my band mate likes to joke that I'm saving for a real guitar when I grow up.)  For bluegrass I'd rather play the acoustic into an instrument mike, but for blues and country, the Godin is just right, and different enough from the guitar to stand out.

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## Dave Wendler

> There are lots of electric mandolins with tone chambers: Godin, Stevens, Wendler, etc.


Actually, my mandolins are NOT hollow, and do not have "tone chambers". They are solid lumber, carved from WR cedar. The body is actually only about 1/2" thick under the center of the instrument, allowing for a highly resonant, yet evenly distributed tonal response. Listen to Scott Tichenor play one....

http://www.electrocoustic.com/audio/...f%20Meando.mp3

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## rico mando

I still love my emando

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Lock

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## tmsweeney

wow can't believe this thread -I thought it would get a few -" yeah electrics are great " and that would be that
but it's like when Dylan came out electric and got booed ( where ever and when ever that was)
i have what is really a Frankenstein electric - it was a prototype 10 string cittern ( octave plus low c or mandocello plus high e )
GD Armstrong sold it as just that - a prototype
the neck and electronics were stock guitar and I recently had a guy replace the neck and we wound up going 8 string (octave) as I never could get the low c to balance with high E
does it sound like an acoustic octave mandolin? - no way
does it sound like a 12 string electric guitar? - no way 
I can do things ( make sounds) with it that I can not on any other instrument I own
so I enjoy having it as an electric instrument
when I play it - I don't try to sound like a guitar or even a mando
I try to play it like an electric octave mandolin - cause that's what it sounds like - to me

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## mandroid

The Basics:  Electric means I got more gear to haul around, and set up, Acoustic, I don't.

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## Lock

Rico, thanks for reviving this thread. I really enjoyed watching/listening to your video. 

I am new to trying to play/read music and can only hope to some day be able to perform with some semblance of skill. Bought my first instrument, a The Loar 520 in November. After getting started and seeing & hearing the emandos I had to have one since my musical tastes are more Rock, Blues, & Jazz, than bluegrass. Now I have a J. Bovier EMC 4 string, I love it. I have a long way to go though.

To others here:
Ed Goist, I do not do Facebook, and pardon my ignorance, who is Jeff Bird? Is there another way I can see and hear this?

JeffD, I agree with your statement, this says it all for me, "we should do what ever we like - there is no obligation to conform to anyone's idea of anything".

thistle3585, Perry, & anyone else, where can one find this Niles & RT book/cassette?
I saw one listed on Amazon for $500 - yikes!

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rico mando

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## Mike Bunting

I like real electric mandolins a la Tiny Moore i.e. solid body 4 or 5 strings. Don't like the so-called acoustic electric mandos (acoustic mandos with a pickup of some sort added) even though they might be necessary once in a while.

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...but it's like when Dylan came out electric and got booed ( where ever and when ever that was)...snip...


1965 Newport Folk Festival...

And, by the way, electric instruments rule! (Though for full disclosure, I should admit that I strongly prefer the electric voice of a longer scale instrument...23" scale electric tenor guitar tuned GDAE..._Now that's the ticket!_  :Grin: )

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...
> To others here:
> Ed Goist, I do not do Facebook, and pardon my ignorance, who is Jeff Bird? Is there another way I can see and hear this?
> ...snip...


Hi Lock:
Jeff Bird is the long-time touring mandolin player for the band Cowboy Junkies. Here's the mandolin page from Jeff's website, and some of Jeff's Great work:

on electric (should be watchable for anyone, whether a Facebook member or not):




and on acoustic:

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