# Technique, Theory, Playing Tips and Tricks > Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks >  Name the top three things that have made you a better Mandolinist

## Cosmic Graffiti

Hi, 
What would you consider the top three things that have made you better mandolin player ? 

Then next what are the top three things that have made you a better musician? 

Everybody learns and takes in information so differently and there are so many diverse musical back grounds here I am curious what people have noticed really improved the above two questions. 

I know that mine change every few months and this is what I feel is making the biggest difference at this time of my study: 

Here are mine: 
Mandolin
1. Getting a teacher 
2. Moveable scale patterns 
3. Fiddle tunes

Musician 
1. Learning to play by ear 
2. Learning a little music theory 
3. Listening to a very diverse selection of music. 

Steve

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MrYikes, 

Toycona

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## Mark Wilson

I agree with your list(s).  

For myself - I might change musician #3 to 'obtaining the best sounding/playing instrument I could afford at the time'

Once I had a better sounding and playing instrument - I was inspired to play more and that pushed me to towards the rest

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Chris Newland, 

Eldon Dennis

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## Denny Gies

1. Listening to others in jams
2. Fiddle tunes
3. Stretching my abilities to play in different keys
   I must add that I'm still no Dawg.

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## Nate Lee

Great topic! It's hard for me to choose which are the three most important, so I'll just choose three that come to mind.

Mandolin:
1) The realization that practicing with a metronome is about more than just not speeding up or slowing down. When I started practicing making every note land in time, I started getting the results I was looking for.

2) Letting go of the idea that some people naturally make good tone. For years I thought that there were the "tone players" and the "everyone else". When I realized that I could make good tone through practice it opened up a whole new world for me. This may seem obvious, but we all have blind spots, and that was one of mine.

3) Like Mark said, getting a better sounding and playing instrument. For me it wasn't just getting a good mandolin, but getting the right good mandolin, that matches my playing style. My Pava mandolin has evolved my playing style in ways that wouldn't have happened with a mandolin that has a different type of tone. For me, this turned out to be a great thing.

As a musician:
1) The realization that others are not as concerned with my solo as much as I am, and that the quality of my solo doesn't determine how good the entire song sounds.

2) Learning to play with others instead of just being a "mando chop bully" and expecting others to fall in with the way I hear the groove. I'm still working on this one.

3) Learning to listen to the other musicians instead of just focusing on what I'm playing the entire song. Also still working on this one.

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guitarua, 

JimY, 

mcgroup53, 

Scot Thayer

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## T.D.Nydn

Mandolin: 1. The right mandolin, strings and pick 2. Building a strong right forearm 3. Understanding and using the entire fingerboard.   
Musician: 1. Getting inspired by others 2. Keeping up with contemporary sounds,styles and bands,never date yourself 3.my attitude, dedication and natural drive.

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Toycona

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## Steve Ostrander

1) Practice
2) Practice
3) Practice

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Chris Newland, 

DavidKOS, 

Frankdolin, 

Johnny60, 

Mark Wilson, 

Trav'linmando

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## Relio

1) learning to play by ear
2) focusing on the tone I'm producing
3) listening to how my mandolin blends with the other instruments
4) realized that vocals are the most important part of vocal songs, so began vocal lessons.
5) Playing with people better than myself
6) when building a break for a vocal tune, learn the melody so it's burned in brain, simplify it and then slowly use different techniques to make it more interesting. The key for me has been building the breaks very slowly and really listening to what I'm playing to see if I like it. 
7) realizing that you can play rhythm more than one way, and that there are different methods to chop
8) the Flatpicking Essentials (guitar book series) was a turning point for me on how I understood playing rhythm and lead.
9) joining a band as a mandolin player has forced me to stop focusing so much on just what I'm doing with my mandolin and more on how good we can make a song sound.

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Cecily_Mandoliner, 

stevedenver

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## farmerjones

Mandolin/Musician, the whole point (personally) is to play with other folks. So that's what I do, as often as I can.
It sounds contrary to logic, but I've gotten better by playing with others, and not waiting until I got better. 

2. Drill scales 
3. Drill chord changes
4. Make the nome your friend

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Cecily_Mandoliner, 

Jen88

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## Barry Wilson

As a musician I'd add learning to read the crowd and playing the appropriate music to suit them

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Cecily_Mandoliner, 

KyleG_MandolinMuse

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## Beanzy

Mandolin
1. Practice
2. Research
3. Asking 'why?' & not just accepting consensus views.

Musician 
1. Listening
2. Playing with others 
3. Studying

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DavidKOS

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## Freddyfingers

1. Realize it's not a frustrating backwards little guitar 
2. Give into the instrument, don't force my ways on it, do what it leads me to
3. Play play play, with a bit of practice in between

Better musician, that's all in perception

1. Open mind
2  it's not a competition
3. All music is good music, dont close doors to other types or styles, you never know what you missed out on.

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## BrianWilliam

> 1) Practice
> 2) Practice
> 3) Practice


Steve beat me to it  :Smile:

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Iron

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## Nate Lee

> It sounds contrary to logic, but I've gotten better by playing with others, and not waiting until I got better.


This! 

Also, I have a list of books I've read that helped me a lot. Here's a link: http://thenatelee.com/books.html

I'll be adding more as I discover them.

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## Cosmic Graffiti

Practice, practice, practice does not count for an answer I feel because if you are practicing wrong or the wrong materiel for where you are in your musical journey the all the practice in the world will not help you much. I feel that is the easy answer and would ask that you re consider and give us some more feedback. Steve are you by any chance from Richmond Michigan? 

Great responses. A lot of them I can see in my future. Specifically the playing with other people! Very interesting that the metronome and scales come up a few times in this. I love both and use both.

Steve

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## Mark Wilson

> It sounds contrary to logic, but I've gotten better by playing with others, and not waiting until I got better.


Ya know, that might be the thing that has made the most difference in my playing and progress.  Thanks for listing it!

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## Tom Sanderson

Mandolinist:
   1. A divorce
   2. A great mandolin (My first Nugget)
   3. studying/practice

Musician:
   1. A divorce
   2. Finding a great group of local musicians to play with
   3. Playing in a contra dance band

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Sevelos

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## Mandobart

For mandolin:
1.  Joining several local acoustic music associations and attending weekly (or more often) jams.
2.  Getting some great instruments to play
3.  Learning from and participation in this forum

General musician:
1.  Started young with classical training (violin), learning to read and playing in orchestra and jazz band.  Ok maybe that's three things but there's more
2.  Started playing out in public with a lots of different players/genres
3.  Getting into music theory.  Turns out you need it a lot more for improv than for classcal read-notes-off-the-page.

When I started playing mandolin and worked toward specific goals, my fiddle and guitar playing also improved.  So really, playing mandolin helped me improve as a musician overall.

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DavidKOS

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## Bertram Henze

Mando:
1. discovering doublestops
2. playing OM, TB, TG in between
3. exploring right hand attitude

Music:
1.getting a metronome
2. recording myself
3. accepting mistakes as music

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Jen88, 

stevedenver

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## Ivan Kelsall

From Beanzy - _"Asking 'why?' & not just accepting consensus views"_. It takes nerve to do that Eoin. Maybe you're gettin' to be a grumpy old Git like me ?? (not really) :Grin: 

Re. the actual question :- I have a 'certain amount' of talent to play mandolin & it will never increase. However,practice enables me to make the most of the talent that i have & i've made a lot of progress in close to 11 years & in 15,000 + hours of practice.

   Playing a variety of what could be called 'sub-genres' of Bluegrass music has helped me extend my profficiency & kept my interest up,& it's helped me to realise why such bands as The Infamous Stringdusters / Greensky Bluegrass & Punch Bros. arose in the first place.

    The other thing which has helped me, is making the most of my mandolins. Ensuring that they're set up correctly 'for me'. Trying different string sets & picks in order to achieve the 'sound' that i want in my playing,which gives me great satisfaction every time i play - i sound like i want to sound,i'm not still 'searching'.

     I've also come to understand how much effort other players put into their playing & it really is nice to know that ''you're not alone'' & that if others can do it,with the same effort _maybe_ i can as well,
                                                                                                           Ivan :Wink:

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MrYikes, 

Trav'linmando

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## Ausdoerrt

> 1) Practice
> 2) Practice
> 3) Practice


Beat me to it  :Smile: 


For the musician part I'd probably say learning 1) music theory 2) music history 3) listening to a lot of music.

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## jshane

> 3. Asking 'why?' & not just accepting consensus views.


Really true.

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## JeffD

> It sounds contrary to logic, but I've gotten better by playing with others, and not waiting until I got better.





> This! .





> Ya know, that might be the thing that has made the most difference in my playing and progress.  Thanks for listing it!


Playing regularly with others. IMO the single most important, impactful, thing I have done. All the other learning activities, practice, instruction, books, listening to recordings, are given a context. It is gigantic the number of things I worked on in order to be ready for next Tuesday night. And the Tuesday after that. ... It adds gasoline to the fire of your desire. And it adds retention, it keeps the desire burning.

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Cecily_Mandoliner, 

Eldon Dennis

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## Steve Ostrander

[QUOTEI feel that is the easy answer and would ask that you re consider and give us some more feedback. ][/QUOTE]

As a mandolinist: (not necessarily in order of importance)
1) Not playing the mandolin like guitar, and not using a guitar pick.
2) Listening to the best players and teachers on Youtube.
3) Owning a quality instrument and having it set up correctly

As a musician:
1) Having music instruction in school.
2) Having exposure to music through friends, family and mentors.
3) Practicing and gigging with other musicians.

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## REH1966

I am to new and green to give a "personal" answer as I haven't really improved yet. Any way here are my thoughts as to what will help me improve over time based on feedback from my instructor.

Mandolin:
1. Learn first, practice second. Makes sense to me.
2. Come with an empty cup. No preconceived notions and willing to take it all in.
3. Have fun and enjoy what your doing.

AS to the musician component I have nothing to add.

Rex

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Nate Lee

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## DavidKOS

Well for me, I'd have been able to get along musically with most other mandolinists better if I'd have spent more time learning Bluegrass and Old-time music rather than playing the stuff I played.

For example, I subbed at a gig the other day, English Country Dance and some contras and Irish tunes.

I had no idea in the contra world "4 potatoes" is the term used for the beats counting the band in!

Also, I would have focused on mandolin as my "classical instrument" a lot earlier in life.

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## Nate Lee

> Come with an empty cup. No preconceived notions and willing to take it all in.


As a professional teacher, I can tell you that this attitude is priceless. Coming in with an empty cup is a fairly reliable indicator of success in students. When this is combined with organizational skills (like list making), a good practice ethic, and fire in the belly, students really thrive. I'm really enjoying reading everyone's responses!

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## BrianWilliam

> Practice, practice, practice does not count for an answer I feel because if you are practicing wrong or the wrong materiel for where you are in your musical journey the all the practice in the world will not help you much. I feel that is the easy answer and would ask that you re consider and give us some more feedback. Steve are you by any chance from Richmond Michigan? 
> 
> Great responses. A lot of them I can see in my future. Specifically the playing with other people! Very interesting that the metronome and scales come up a few times in this. I love both and use both.
> 
> Steve


It's easy to type for sure!  And yes, a bit generic. But, it's reality. You've got to put in the hours. 

Playing with others and getting out of the house are definitely critical - for me, it motivation to practice more so I fumble less when I'm in front of a mic.

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## David Beavers

I tend to give credit to the same things on both sides of the mandolin/musician question.  

1. The guy behind the Steel Guitar in this video (my dad). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvDtkU7qL_4

2. Playing with others:  Playing with others brings life to what you're doing as a musician.  You get ideas, inspiration, musical context, teaching and practice with one fell swoop.

3. Discipline: This is kinda broad, but being regular with practice and playing and actively learning something you didn't know before.

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## David L

Mandolinist:

1. Sight-reading fiddle tunes.
2. Arranging non-mandolin music (classical, ragtime, etc.) for mandolin.
3. Double-stops

Musician:
1. Playing with others (school music groups, dance bands)
2. Bachelor Degree in music performance
3. Learning to play for the song, not yourself

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DavidKOS

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## Mandobar

> Mandolinist:
>    1. A divorce
>    2. A great mandolin (My first Nugget)
>    3. studying/practice
> 
> Musician:
>    1. A divorce
>    2. Finding a great group of local musicians to play with
>    3. Playing in a contra dance band


Tom, you made me spit out my coffee .......... :Laughing:

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## Bill Foss

1. Metronome
2. Nugget
3. Mike Compton workshops

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## Tom Sanderson

Forgot to quote , see next post below

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## Tom Sanderson

> Tom, you made me spit out my coffee ..........


I said it to be funny, but it really is the truth.

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Sevelos

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## Gary Leonard

Mandolinist
1. Nice instrument, well made and setup.
2. Instruction
3. Practice.

Musician
1. Realizing I am not a musician
2. Hearing the music, not just listening to it while you play along
3. Music theory/Reading standard notation

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## Pete Martin

1) Transcribing 
2) Practicing those transcriptions until I could play them
3) Listening to find more stuff to transcribe  :Mandosmiley:

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Bob Clark

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## Mandobar

> I said it to be funny, but it really is the truth.


I can totally identify, which is what made it even funnier.


I believe, after more than 30 years in playing music that there are two schools of approaching playing music.  There are those of us who work at playing cleaner and in tune.  We strive to learn from other people (teachers, other players, etc.) and embrace all the qualities of good musicianship, which include actively listening to the other people we are playing with.  

And then there are those who feel whatever comes out is just good enough.  I say this having been to local concerts, open mics, festivals, etc. where people are just so obviously off key, off tempo, and their playing never changes, no matter how much time passes (years in some cases) it's the same thing, over and over.  It never dawned on me that there was an actual ideology behind this, or that it was an approach to playing and performing, but recently I had someone defend their playing to me as "not being a purist".  While it was probably rude of me, I laughed out loud at this response.

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DavidKOS, 

paulspafford, 

Tom Sanderson

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## terzinator

Some great responses... I work on fiddle tunes constantly (because I love to), and technique, and clean tone, and practice practice practice. But these three really resonate with me:

1) a good instrument (keeps me playing, and inspires me)
2) playing regularly with others (I prefer jams to performances, for sure.)
3) focusing on MELODY.

It might sound weird, but #3 really is a big one for me. Specifically in jams, where you don't really have the chance to "work out a break." 

I'd find myself in the midst of a break, pecking out the notes in the key/scale, and thinking, really, is this music? Sometimes I'd land on something cool, but more often than not, I'd forget where I was, and at the end of the break, I'd just stop playing, and that would be that. No story to tell, no beginning and ending. Just noodling. 

But once I really started listening for the melody (I really like it if I'm NOT the first player to take a break), things got more focused, and meaningful, and fun. 

The one thing I REALLY wish I could have in my list, though, is "Learning beyond-basic chords." The augmenteds, and diminisheds, and 6ths and 9ths and whatnot. Occasionally I'll play with some jazz/swing guys, and the chords can be strange, locked rooms I do not yet have the key to open. Usually there are enough other players to cover my inadequacies, but it'd be nice to know what I'm doing.

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## lflngpicker

Hi JeffD and all else, In thinking about this, I would say, Practice, primarily.  But, then, it is important to have something to practice.  Instruction in the form of books, CD's, Free Online video lessons, and Tab made available on the cafe and other places are the keys.  Thirdly, the Mandolin Cafe has been a great instructional tool and has taught me the bit I know about mandolins-- meaning all of you-- and thanks!  Finally, finding funds through the sale of instruments and other means to buy better instruments.  The better an instrument plays, tunes, and sounds (even appearance can help) the faster you are able to progress and improve.  Great thread!

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## Randi Gormley

Better mandolinist:
1. Playing with other people
2. practicing consistently
3. hand/arm position

better musician
1. Listening to great players
2. playing music slightly harder than I'm able to
3. teaching/playing with others

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## JeffD

> Practice, practice, practice does not count for an answer I feel because if you are practicing wrong or the wrong materiel for where you are in your musical journey the all the practice in the world will not help you much.


My experience - yes and no. Just getting behind that instrument every day is a gigantic thing. Almost magical in its effect. So while the content of my practice is important, the real important thing is that it happens. That practice happens. 

But I do agree that working diligently on the wrong things will not get you the progress you seek in the right things. If playing specific runs, or string crossing, or chord transitions, or playing "Floppy Eared Mule", or a chord backup to "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" is what I want to see progress on, I need to work on those things.

So getting behind that instrument and practicing every day that I can, would be the second in the top three. What I specifically practiced and how has changed and, while important, is not a top three.

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## Joel Glassman

Is 4 OK?
1. Lowering the height of the strings and using thinner strings.
2. Learning the arpeggio patterns in all keys. The patterns formed by
all the C E and G notes in the key of C [for example].
3. Learning to sing all the notes I play as I'm playing them. I don't do this performing,
but it helps to find the notes I'm thinking of. Also keeping the sound of a chord's
3rd or 7th in my head as I'm improvising on a chord. 
4. Using a metronome.

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## Cosmic Graffiti

Maybe its better to say: 

Practice and time are obvious answers.  :Mandosmiley: 

Steve

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## pglasse

Good question.

Here's what comes to mind right now.

1) Consistently playing music with the best musicians who will allow me to play with them.

2) Learning to listen to the whole band and more while also playing my instrument.

3) Practicing and gigging on both acoustic 8-string mandolin and 5-string electric mandolin.

Bonus #4) Continuing to enjoy and find inspiration in the life-long musical journey.

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## Mark Marino

1.  Finally giving in and learning a couple Bill Monroe instrumentals
2.  Learning to play with, and stick with a golden gate pick
3.  Understand that picking style and force can contribute to good sound as much as the instrument, maybe more- and applying it (I still struggle doing this at jams)

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## mandocrucian

Addressing the_ musician_ part: (in an ironic and somewhat depressingly comedic manner)

*1) Listen to a wide variety of music and genres* (blues, rock, jazz, C&W, old-time, Celtic, cajun, classical, tex-mex, ethnic and pop music from the other 5 continents...etc.) and a wide variety of instruments. How can you decide what you _really_ like unless you expose yourself to it?   How can you decide what's _really good_ unless you have many frames of references?

And *never apologize* to *ANYONE* for what you do like! (i.e. so-called "guilty pleasures")  It's irrelevant whether Joe Blow or I think it's garbage...neither of us have to live inside your head (and vice versa).

*2) Learn from, and dissect,* (to understand "why") *the stuff that really grabs you,* regardless of what the original source instrument (or genre) may have been. Fiddle, electric guitar, bagpipes, sax, clawhammer banjo, accordion....whatever....it should make no difference.  If it really grabs you, *Terpischore* and *Euterpe* are sending you this message, _"You should study it."_  

This should/will lead you to mando specific issues of finding exercises and technique builders* to practice which will allow you to pull off that stuff convincingly. (*shifting, slurring/bowing hammer-on/pull-off patters, bending, vibrato, double-triplestops, muting etc. etc. etc.)

*3)* at some point you may realize that the "real instrument" in not whatever is in your hands, but *is your brain and ear*. So tapping out drum patterns with your feet, or playing harmonica in a rack, or singing with the mando is only an extension of your "instrument". Actually it's whatever you pick up and try to play as extension of your ear/mind ("real instrument").

- - - - - (for maximum effect, the following should be read in your head hearing the voice of John Oliver, which is how he telepathically transmitted to following to me.)

At some point you can finally put on a record, and just vocally scat out solos along with Charlie Parker, Robin Trower, Peter Green,  (or whoever's CDs). Get ready! Here it comes:
*Be-dee diddle-doo - ska-bah-di-dah  sooooo-weeee so-what....... diddley-diddley doo neighbor!  * 

And* NOW* you come to the realization: *This* is the *wonder* that 30 or 40 years of work and dedication *has wroth!* 

*Let this really, really sink in!*

Now, depending on your personality and the fragility (or strength) of your psyche, you can either:

*A) jump off a bridge or in front of a moving bus*

    or

B) *start cackling and laughing like a lunatic in The Treasure of The Sierra Madre and start doing the "Old prospector dance."* 



*AND NOW......THIS!*

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MrYikes, 

stevedenver

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## Jill McAuley

1) Spending the money to get a good instrument - I've been a musician all my life and for me having a nice instrument facilitates me wanting to play it all the time.

2) Lucky enough to be in close proximity of great teachers (Angelina Carberry & Marla Fibish) I list Angelina here because even though she was my tenor banjo teacher, not mandolin, I learnt so much from her regarding playing with the right feel and that translated directly to my mandolin playing as well.

3) Playing every single day.

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## jshane

> *3)* at some point you may realize that the "real instrument" in not whatever is in your hands, but *is your brain and ear*.


bingo!

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## Bob Clark

> 1) Transcribing 
> 2) Practicing those transcriptions until I could play them
> 3) Listening to find more stuff to transcribe


The desire to do this is what brought me to the mandolin in the first place.  Doing this has improved my musicianship on my other (now secondary) instrument, the piano.  Transcription teaches on many levels.

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Narayan Kersak

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## Narayan Kersak

1) *Playing with a metronome*...
2) *Recording myself playing.*  Making videos for youtube, forcing myself to hear how I played and then adjusting.
3) *Playing other fretted instruments*, like taking a week or so and only playing my electric guitar or tenor banjo, then coming back to the mandolin with fresh ears and fingers.  I feel that made me a better player by breaking up brain ruts...

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## JeffD

> *AND NOW......THIS!*


What is funny about that video is that the subtitles are of absolutely no help to me.

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## JeffD

> 1) Transcribing 
>  2) Practicing those transcriptions until I could play them
>  3) Listening to find more stuff to transcribe


 I saw a video of yours, (but I cannot find it anymore), talking about learning the "language", the riffs and phrases and clichés that characterize the style of the music being learned. I thought that was gigantic. I had somehow never thought of deliberately going after those things, that they were "evidence" of having learned the genre, not something you seek to learn in the genre. Screwy, but there it is.

 And learning transcriptions of the greats, I can see, does a lot of this.

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## Jess L.

> ... the top three things that have made you better *mandolin* player...


Having a *teacher* (my dad, here's an old home recording of us on mandola and banjo). Having a teacher was immensely helpful when I was first learning mandolin, mainly to remind me to hold the *pick* correctly. He was the first person I ever heard say: 




> "Hold the pick so loose that if you turn your hand sideways the pick almost falls out."


As a kid I thought, "Huh? That can't be right, it's not logical," but I tried it, and it works. The tighter you hold the pick, the more it wants to slip away; whereas the looser you hold the pick, the more it stays in place because (if necessary) you can make sort of subconscious micro-adjustments as you're playing. But I never did get into his tremolo stuff, he was good at it (for old cowboy songs, Strauss waltzes, and folk versions of Chopin tunes), I just wasn't very interested in tremolo at the time, would rather pick fiddle tunes  :Whistling:  (see next item). 
I *already played fiddle* (oldtime fiddle tunes). So, for starters anyway, to me the mandolin was just a fretted fiddle,  :Whistling:  and the only thing different about mandolin was learning how to use a flatpick (see #1 above) instead of the fiddle bow. I disliked mandolin at first because I couldn't get a good bouncy rhythm out of the thing, like I could fairly easily with fiddle. Bowing seemed a lot easier than flatpicking, although it's hard to learn how to make bowing sound non-screechy,  :Disbelief:   :Wink:  whereas mandolin can be made to sound a lot sweeter as long as a person isn't thrashing the strings. But as far as the rhythm, I thought that mandolin took more work to make the music sound at least somewhat lively. Compared to fiddle, that is.  
*Setting the mandolin aside for 30+ years* while I did other stuff. When I finally came back to it, I had: (a) more experience on other instruments, each instrument you learn makes the next one that much easier, and (b) new musical ideas and tunes I wanted to try to play. Whereas before, I'd kind of run out of steam, didn't have any new ideas to try out. However I'm still extremely rusty and not even close to being back in the saddle yet, as far as playing ability. 




> ... top three things that have made you a better *musician*...


*Disassembling dance tunes* (fiddle tunes) one note at a time, to see how they're put together. I have a bad memory so I learned how to write them down, as a quick reminder for later. Not sitting there reading sheet music, that's not what I mean, just one quick glance at the notes I've written, then look away and play the tune. 
*Learning to play backup* (backing) behind other musicians (not bluegrass, don't know anything about that), listening to the music to try to figure out what it needed to make it sound better. Or, at least, to not get in the way of or distract from what the melody players are playing (fantastically good MandolinCafe thread called *Love for Guitars*  :Mandosmiley:  reminds us all to "use our powers for good, not for evil"  :Wink:  when it comes to accompaniment, some folk genres don't need much or any chordal-type accompaniment). Anyway this was the result of first *hearing* good backup musicians, and there really weren't any in my household as a kid, most everyone just played melody (or sometimes bare-bones basic chords) which one would expect in those genres of music. But later, I spent several years going to a once-a-week oldtime (no bluegrass) jam at a friend's house, where they often had some pretty good musicians. I learned a lot of good musical stuff from listening to how other people approached the tunes. Finally learned my first three chords on guitar (bit of a late bloomer there  :Chicken:  lol, had only played melody before that, on other instruments). Also learned some new tunes as well, which is also nice. 
Oldtime festival *jams*, lightweight *contests*, *dances*, and informal *folk-music concerts*. Provided a focus and a *reason* to try to play better, because lotsa people would be listening! And judges! I might win something! Lol. And it's great when the audience claps. I'd never been a "people-pleaser" (too ornery  :Laughing:  for that), but playing music is different. But I never got into the fancy "contest STYLE" of music, I didn't like the sound of it, too many notes getting in the way of the music itself, so no Weiser or any of that. Just local stuff. 
Oops this is four things:  :Cool:  *Going electric*,  :Grin:  after eons of shunning instruments that required electricity to operate. A whole new world of possibilities and amazing sounds to explore, and lots of neat new ways to express things, sounds that were fleeting (or non-existent) in acoustic-only instruments. I experimented briefly with a fretless electric bass (no frets, no worries, I already played fretless banjo lol and of course fiddle), then a few years plunking around on a big Korg keyboard (synthesizer), then finally an electric guitar. Woo-hoo! What a rush, love the sounds you can get from some of those things.  :Mandosmiley:  Hard to believe all the years' worth of music I missed out on because of my formerly-stubborn opposition to electric music. Although I'll admit that it took me a few years to get over how electric instruments *look*, they seem so... common... that was when I realized I'd unwittingly been somewhat narrow-minded and even a little snobbish (eek) all those earlier years. Wasn't aware of it at the time though, I just thought electric players weren't talented enough to play a 'real' (acoustic) instrument, boy did I have *that* wrong!  :Laughing:  The other great thing about electric stringed instruments, for aging *arthritic fingers* like mine, is the option to use *super-lightweight strings*. So I don't have to give up music,  :Mandosmiley:  I can keep on playing even with arthritis, but without the joint damage and pain that I got from heavy-string acoustic instruments. While I would *not* take an electric instrument to an acoustic jam because people generally don't cotton to stuff like that, but at home nearly all of my practicing is done on electric instruments, saves wear-and-tear on my finger joints.  :Smile:

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MrYikes

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## zedmando

Mandolin:
Practice
Listening
Asking questions, especially here

Musician:
Practice
Listening
Asking questions

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## mcgroup53

Love this thread.

Mandolin

1. Freeing my right hand from being planted
2. Going back to the basics of Monroe, which I neglected when I first started
3. Concentrating on generating proper tone and chop, getting the best out of my mandolin

Musician
1. Practicing slowly, quietly and deliberately. Play everything perfectly at a slow pace; speed will come
2. Like others, listening and knowing when NOT to play or intrude on the group sound
3. Learning my stuff, knowing my parts before rehearsal, expanding my influences to new sources to grow and evolve

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## MediumMando5722

Mandolin:

1. Learning to hold the pick properly. I spent 20+ years with a goofy grip that made my forearm tense.
2. Playing something new every day instead of noodling the same old stuff.
3. Listening to every great mandolin player I can find.

Musician:

1. Playing through mistakes rather than stopping and starting again.
2. Listening to many different styles of music.
3. Playing with others as often as I can, especially people who are better than I am.

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## Bertram Henze

> 3. Playing with others as often as I can, especially people who are better than I am.


That's what I forgot on my list.

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## Tate Ferguson

1) Metronome
2) Metronome
3) Metronome

Your friends may lie to you about how great you play.  Your bandmates may lie to you.  Your own gosh-darn ears may lie to you.

The metronome will never lie to you.

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Scot Thayer, 

stevedenver

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## mobi

I'd reply from a different angle - things which are NOT helping me to become better mandolinist  :Smile: 

1. Lack of time for practice
2. Confusion about genres/styles etc. i.e. not having a very clear goal
3. Not being able to play with other mandolin players 
4. Moving to new tunes without mastering previous tunes (often get bored playing same tune over & over again)

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## Bertram Henze

> The metronome will never lie to you.

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## jim_n_virginia

1. Listen to the old masters 
2. Learning and understanding that to pull tone out of an instrument is not playing louder.
3. Your right hand technique if just as important as your left hand technique... maybe MORE important!

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## grizzerbear

Thank you so much for writing down your perspective - very helpful and insightful.

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## Lou Scuderi

By and large, the things that have made me a better mandolinist have also made me a better musician in general. However, I think I can come up with separate lists:

*Mandolinist:
*Obsessively practicing and drilling my right hand technique.
Playing every genre of music I can possibly conceive of; celtic, classical, bluegrass, jazz, what have you.
Seeking out, playing with, and learning from some really great mandolinists.

*Musician:
*Years of consistent and frequent gigs and live performance (this is by far the quickest and best way to get better, at least in my experience).
Studying music theory.
Listening to everything I can get my hands on (or, rather, get my ears on).

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## Nevin

1) Practicing
2) Listening to music
3) Trying to play music that was not written for the mandolin.  

The first two are self explanatory.  Playing music that is not written for the mandolin presents challenges that make me explorer the instrument in ways I wouldn't otherwise do.  This makes me know the instrument better and pushes my personal limits.

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## Cosmic Graffiti

So many good tips here!! You all are very inspiring to me! 
Steve

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## Iron

#1 Practice and an Ellis F5
#2 Playing Pandora for hours and figuring out the key and jamming along
#3 Playing with folks better'n me weekly and stick one more in here fiddle tunes, lots of fiddle tunes.

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## Bill Slovin

For the Mandolin it's....
1.  The realization that it doesn't matter how much of the fingerboard you know if your right hand technique isn't solid nothing will sound good.  Picking excercises are crucial. 
2.  Thinking about getting good tone all of the time.  
3.  Scales and arpeggios

Musician
1.  Being a very good listener to the other players.  Playing music is about 80% listening and 20% playing. 
2.  Slowing down great recordings and learning them note for note with every little detail. 
3.  Learning how my heros phrase melodies and how they approach improv and knowing that good rhythm playing beats hot soloing any day.

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## Michael H Geimer

Three things:

1) Pick gripchanging over the curled index grip

2) Imagining the flat courses of strings _as if they had a radius like a Violin_, so the pickstroke is moving slightly towards the top on the high strings, and slightly away from the top on the lower strings. This was advice from another players at a festival, but it has helped me immensely.

3) Go to festivals and jams, where you can meet other players, try new things, and learn.

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## Elliot Luber

1. Feedback from the best players (even if it's just one lesson).  2. Practicing the right ways. 3. Ideas from Youtube.

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## NewKid

1. Practicing slow, clean notes
2. Metronome on most of the time
3. Cross picking to improve right hand accuracy and speed

Almost one year in with the mandolin.

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## jessimanj

Most of the above but also to play the damned thing as opposed to "footering about" with the bridge, action, excessive tuning, changing picks and strings etc.  

All of the above can be important but I'm very guilty of over focusing on these when there is often no need and wasting valuable playing and practice time. Quite often, I even make the "issues" seem worse!  :Mad:

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## Chris Newland

> 1) Practice
> 2) Practice
> 3) Practice


Soccer coaches often call it "training" rather than practice.  Baseball games start with the ump saying "play ball."  I know that practice or training would help me improve more quickly.  But I really like to play the mandolin.  Every day.  And every day I'm just a little bit better.  Just a little bit. And it brings me joy.

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## David L

> Soccer coaches often call it "training" rather than practice.  Baseball games start with the ump saying "play ball."  I know that practice or training would help me improve more quickly.  But I really like to play the mandolin.  Every day.  And every day I'm just a little bit better.  Just a little bit. And it brings me joy.


Yes, for years as a gigging musician, if I said that I was "working" next weekend, my wife would quickly say "You mean PLAYING?" I think it is wonderful that what we get to do as musicians is PLAY! 

It is interesting that doctors and lawyers "practice" for a living. You'd think that with all that practice, they'd be ready to perform.

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## BluesPreacher

I go along with "practice" x 3.  I would have posted that if I hadn't been beaten to it.  

Honorable mention:  playing softer, with a lighter touch.

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## Phil Goodson

I guess this is for at least early intermediate players:

After forming an *infrastructure* of learning and picking some tunes just to get your fingers trained and learning the basic movable chord patterns for major, minor, and seventh chords, and learning the fingerboard (if you don't know where every note is on the board, you're being a little lazy, IMO), THEN:

*1.* Learning how to use the *Nashville Numbering System* for chord Patterns and learn (almost) *every* song in terms of the NNS chord pattern (rather than in a particular key).

*2.*  Learning to play melodies with your index finger starting on the 'key note'  (e.g. G if you're playing in the key of G) as a base and *THINKING of the notes in terms of the scale note number* (e.g. if playing in key of C,  every F note is thought of as '4'). 
(Later you can change the index finger thing to each of the other fingers.)

*3.*  Learning EVERYTHING in '*Pickloser's Guide to Doublestops*'

And practice *thoughtfully* every day. :Smile:

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## Cosmic Graffiti

Hi Phil, this is not for any level in particular. It what has made YOU and better Mandolin Player/Musician.

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## Phil Goodson

> Hi Phil, this is not for any level in particular. It what has made YOU and better Mandolin Player/Musician.


I know.   I was just indicating that some of my comments might be better utilized if  you've already gotten beyond the "how to hold a pick" level.

I will say the the "Pickloser's...." article that I referenced above probably gave me the biggest boost of ANY other teaching information that I've used. :Smile:

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## Mark Wilson

If you zoom out far enough - for me it's been money, time, & desire   :Mandosmiley:

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