# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  Tenor Guitar tuning GDAE - correct string gauze.

## Taylor and Tenor

I know this question has been asked any number of times in the past but I would appreciate your input.  I have a small six string guitar that I converted to a four string tenor that is currently tuned to CGDA which plays quite well.

I want to tune it GDAE for Irish tunes without transposing from tenor guitar tuning or the use of a capo to DAEB which I do now.  The instrument has a 22 inch scale.

What gauze strings would you suggest to attain GDAE tuning.  I have made several attempts and end up with a floppy G string that doesn't sound quite right.

Thank you for your input.

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## acousticphd

One approach is to estimate based on the gauges you would have used on the 6-string guitar, then probably edge a little heavier.

Ie, you would probably use at least medium, and maybe heavy gauge strings on this guitar.  A heavy set is 0.014 (high E), 0.027 (G), 0.039 (D), and 0.049 (A).  I would start there for the E/D strings.  You would probably want to go lighter than 0.027 for the A string.  I use a wound 0.023 A string (which is the lightest easily available wound guage) on my OM, which works well.  

Then you would want to go somewhat heavier than 0.049 for the low G string, maybe .054 (which is a medium low E guitar guage).

I might suggest going into a guitar shop that sells bulk strings out of sleeves, and buy/try one 4-string combination, then make adjustments as needed.  At 22 inches, I think you could afford to err on the heavy side.

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## John Kelly

My octave and tenor guitar both have 540mm scales (21.25 inches approx) and I use D'Addario J80s on both instruments.  The strings are .012, .022, .032 and .046.  I get 2 sets of tenor strings out of the J80 set!  I find them fine and do not find the low G too floppy - it is Scottish and Irish music I play mainly. Here is a link to the tenor being played on one of my tracks on SoundCloud.  The backing instruments are my bouzouki and octave mandolin:

http://snd.sc/YD1Ir7

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Tara Linhardt, 

Tobin

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## zoukboy

I recently picked up a used Blueridge tenor and have been experimenting with string gauges, and have settled (for now) on .013/,020PB/.030PB/,045PB.  Sound is well balanced. This instrument seems to want slightly higher tension than a standard tuning set would yield.  So far, so good!

len 22.875"

E4   .013" PL == 22.06#
A3   .020" PB == 21.27#
D3   .030" PB == 21.81#
G2   .045" PB == 21.74#
total == 86.88#

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## acousticphd

Good recommendations above, which are lighter than what I suggested but closer to what I use on a double-course instrument, or a genuine, made-to-be-a-tenor flattop guitar.  My thinking though is that Cape's guitar is a 6-string, strung as a four string, which might do better with heavier strings.

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## Taylor and Tenor

From various sets of saved ball end guitar strings, I was able to come up with a set the same size as the J80's (0.014 - 0.046) that was suggested by John Kelly.  I detune the half size four string guitar a full step and capo at the second fret in order to shorten the scale length and bring it back up to GDAE.  The set works just fine.

When I did the conversion of the Oscar Schidmt half size six string guitar to a four string, I reduced the width of the neck, made a new narrower bone nut, removed two of the tuners and replaced all four with new min Grovers so the instrument appears to be a normal tenor.  Now I have nice sounding guitar shaped four string octave mandolin for under a $100.00 that I can take to sessions without a care and leave my nice Aria AF tenor at home.

Thanks again for your help!

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## Taylor and Tenor

I thought someone might like to see a photo of my conversion of a six string guitar to a four string OM/tenor.

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Dolamon, 

Ed Goist, 

GKWilson

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## Eddie Sheehy

I'd look at D'addario J76 or FT...

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## Ben Vierra

For my 22.8 inch scale tenor I've been using:

E = 0.014
A = 0.022 or 0.023
D = 0.034
G = 0.049

These gauges seem to fit my playing and instrument pretty well, and are equivalent to the D'Addario J72 set.  I've briefly tried the J76 set that Eddie mentions.  Those were too much for me to handle, but maybe you'd have luck with the slightly shorter scale.

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## Tobin

> I recently picked up a used Blueridge tenor and have been experimenting with string gauges, and have settled (for now) on .013/,020PB/.030PB/,045PB.  Sound is well balanced. This instrument seems to want slightly higher tension than a standard tuning set would yield.  So far, so good!
> 
> len 22.875"
> 
> E4   .013" PL == 22.06#
> A3   .020" PB == 21.27#
> D3   .030" PB == 21.81#
> G2   .045" PB == 21.74#
> total == 86.88#


This is good information, as I'm sort of in the same boat.  My friend just purchased a Blueridge tenor guitar, same as yours, with 22.875" scale length.  And we will be tuning it to GDAE so I can teach him to play it as an octave mandolin.

But I'll admit, I'm confused as heck about the dynamics of string gauge, tension, and scale length for desired tunings.  This is my first foray into tuning an instrument in something other than its "standard" tuning.  Up to this point, I've always chosen standard strings based on the way they feel, sound, etc.  I've never had to experiment like this.

So what I'd like to do is perhaps buy a couple of different gauge sets and work our way through them to find out what plays best.  I'm definitely going to pick up the D'Addario J80s that John Kelly mentioned.  But as for these gauges that you showed in the post I quoted, where do you get them?  Are you buying custom strings on a per-string basis, or are these available as a set?

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*edited to add:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but if the D'Addario J80s are made for an octave mandolin, I assume they will come with looped ends.  How would I make that work on a tenor guitar that takes strings with a ball end?  One part of my brain is telling me that I could just snip the balls off of some used guitar strings, place them in the loop, and twist until it's snug.  The other part of my brain says that this will cause the string to possibly break when it's brought up to tension, if I don't do it just right.

So I'm curious how this is supposed to be done.

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## John Kelly

My two tenors, which are both built by myself, have tailpieces which take loop ends; one has a standard mandolin 2-piece Gibson type and the other has a custom tailpiece I made myself.  See photo - it is cut from aluminium and has 4 bolts tapped and inserted to hold the loop ends.



I have used ball ends at times on other instruments which were built for loop ends and the big thing to watch for is that when you are cutting off the ball end you do not snag the string itself and cut it through.  I use a small pair of end cutters and work them carefully around the ball, checking that the cutters have not nipped the ball.  I did not have to tighten the loop as it just tightened itself when the string came under tension during tuning.

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## zoukboy

> This is good information, as I'm sort of in the same boat.  My friend just purchased a Blueridge tenor guitar, same as yours, with 22.875" scale length.  And we will be tuning it to GDAE so I can teach him to play it as an octave mandolin.
> 
> But I'll admit, I'm confused as heck about the dynamics of string gauge, tension, and scale length for desired tunings.  This is my first foray into tuning an instrument in something other than its "standard" tuning.  Up to this point, I've always chosen standard strings based on the way they feel, sound, etc.  I've never had to experiment like this.
> 
> So what I'd like to do is perhaps buy a couple of different gauge sets and work our way through them to find out what plays best.  I'm definitely going to pick up the D'Addario J80s that John Kelly mentioned.  But as for these gauges that you showed in the post I quoted, where do you get them?  Are you buying custom strings on a per-string basis, or are these available as a set?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *edited to add:
> ...


I get them as single gauges. I buy almost all my strings that way since I prefer to make up my own custom sets.

I wouldn't recommend the J80 set for this particular instrument because the wound strings are too heavy and the plain E string seems too light.

One way to proceed when changing an instrument's tuning/string gauges is to figure the tensions on the strings that are on it before you make the change and then try to reproduce those tensions with the new tuning by choosing string gauges accordingly. An online string tension calculator like this one http://www.bangzero.org/stringtension/ is essential.

When I need to use a loop end string for an instrument that requires ball end I just put the ball off a used string into the loop. They usually fit nice and snug and once it's under tension it won't go anywhere.

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Tobin

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## Brad Weiss

I've found this handy - ymmv
http://rycooder.nl/pages/tenor_gauges.htm

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Tobin

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## Tobin

Awesome information, thanks!  I've been playing with this stuff and learning a lot about it, and it's pretty interesting to compare tunings with scale lengths and string gauges.  It seems that the information on Brad Weiss's tenor guitar link agrees perfectly with what I come up with using the tension calculator provided by zoukboy for GDAE tuning.  Using 013-019-029-045, I get a nice even distribution across the width of the neck, and it is roughly comparable tension to what I see for the regular tenor guitar strings at CGDA tuning.  

The only problem is, I can't find 0.019, 0.029, or 0.045 strings.  Those are oddball numbers and I can only get them in even-numbered gauges from my usual supplier (Juststrings).  So, it looks like I'll probably need to step up a bit to even sizes.  Virtually the same tension numbers that zoukboy posted above, but the G string would be 0.046 instead of 0.045.

So the tension profile should look like this.  

len 22.875"
E   .013" PL == 22.06#
A,  .020" PB == 21.27#
D,  .030 PB == 21.81#
G,, .046" PB == 22.66#
total == 87.8#

This seems significantly little heavier (i.e. more total tension) than most pre-packaged strings for tenor guitar at CGDA tuning (although it's only about 3.2 lbs more total tension than the GHS CU-BBTG strings).  Think there will be any issues?  These will be put on a brand-new Blueridge BR-40T tenor guitar, so I needn't worry about age or vintage design being a factor.  But this guitar does not have a truss rod, so if it starts to bend the neck and raise the action, there's not a lot I can do about it.

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## zoukboy

> Awesome information, thanks!  I've been playing with this stuff and learning a lot about it, and it's pretty interesting to compare tunings with scale lengths and string gauges.  It seems that the information on Brad Weiss's tenor guitar link agrees perfectly with what I come up with using the tension calculator provided by zoukboy for GDAE tuning.  Using 013-019-029-045, I get a nice even distribution across the width of the neck, and it is roughly comparable tension to what I see for the regular tenor guitar strings at CGDA tuning.  
> 
> The only problem is, I can't find 0.019, 0.029, or 0.045 strings.  Those are oddball numbers and I can only get them in even-numbered gauges from my usual supplier (Juststrings).  So, it looks like I'll probably need to step up a bit to even sizes.  Virtually the same tension numbers that zoukboy posted above, but the G string would be 0.046 instead of 0.045.
> 
> So the tension profile should look like this.  
> 
> len 22.875"
> E   .013" PL == 22.06#
> A,  .020" PB == 21.27#
> ...


I doubt you'll have any neck issues with only 87# tension.  My Blueridge has a truss rod - it's accessed through the soundhole.  It's also probably a good idea to keep and eye on the bridge and make sure the back of it does not lift off the top. 

Juststrings has all the gauges you need here:

http://www.juststrings.com/acousticp...lestrings.html

Also, it's not essential that each of the four strings have the same tension, only that you try and keep the *overall* tension close to what it would be for standard tenor C3G3D4A4 tuning. You can mix and match strings within the custom set to get what you want from each string. I settled on a .045 for the low G (at 21.74#) because I like the sound of it better than a .046 (AT 22.66#).  I tried heavier gauges on the D and A strings but thought they felt too tight and prefer the feel and sound of the .020 and .030.  YMMV.

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mmcadory

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## Tobin

Thanks again.  Yeah, it's not my guitar - I'm just trying to help a friend.  Didn't know it had a truss rod, and just assumed from the photos (i.e. no cover plate at the headstock) that it didn't have one.

Yikes, those D'Addarios are a bit pricy for single strings compared to the bulk 12-packs they sell that are "Juststrings" brand.  Is it worth buying the D'Addarios over their house brand?

As for tension, I was trying to keep it fairly balanced so that the G and D strings had roughly the same tension as the A and E strings.  I've seen guitar necks warp or twist over the years, and have always wondered if this was the result of imbalanced string tension on each side of the neck.  I'm probably just over-thinking it.

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## Rvl

Do you have any diagrams or plans for your bridge?
I am looking for making 4 and 5 string and 10 strings bridges like that




> My two tenors, which are both built by myself, have tailpieces which take loop ends; one has a standard mandolin 2-piece Gibson type and the other has a custom tailpiece I made myself.  See photo - it is cut from aluminium and has 4 bolts tapped and inserted to hold the loop ends.
> 
> 
> 
> I have used ball ends at times on other instruments which were built for loop ends and the big thing to watch for is that when you are cutting off the ball end you do not snag the string itself and cut it through.  I use a small pair of end cutters and work them carefully around the ball, checking that the cutters have not nipped the ball.  I did not have to tighten the loop as it just tightened itself when the string came under tension during tuning.

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## John Kelly

Have no plans as such but do have a template I made from thin aeromodelling plywood which I can copy for you with dimensions.  The tailpiece (I assume this is what you are asking about rather than a bridge?) is made from a plate of sheet aluminium (or aluminum if you are in the US of A) and cut out by jeweller's saw with a fairly heavy blade.  All the holes are marked and drilled before the tailpiece is bent.

I drilled the 4 corners of the cut-out then threaded the saw blade in to one of the holes then cut the shape out.  I drilled 4  holes tapping size for the bolts/machine screws and then screwed them in and put some epoxy on the threads before tightening them.   The threads give the loop ends of the strings a good grip. I filed most of the heads of the screws down after fitting them so that they would not dig into the instrument's top after the tailpiece was fitted. Before bending the metal I put a very shallow saw-cut across the bending line, on the underside when it is bent, and heated the metal to prevent it fracturing along the bend.  Fine files were used then a fibreglass burnisher to get a good finish on the metal and all edges were cleaned up in the same way.

The decoration around the edges is mahogany strips epoxied on just to make the thing look better.

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## Rvl

Yes the tailpiece
Sorry my mistake

What is the thickness of the aluminium?
And what size machine screws did you use?




> Have no plans as such but do have a template I made from thin aeromodelling plywood which I can copy for you with dimensions.  The tailpiece (I assume this is what you are asking about rather than a bridge?) is made from a plate of sheet aluminium (or aluminum if you are in the US of A) and cut out by jeweller's saw with a fairly heavy blade.  All the holes are marked and drilled before the tailpiece is bent.
> 
> I drilled the 4 corners of the cut-out then threaded the saw blade in to one of the holes then cut the shape out.  I drilled 4  holes tapping size for the bolts/machine screws and then screwed them in and put some epoxy on the threads before tightening them.   The threads give the loop ends of the strings a good grip. I filed most of the heads of the screws down after fitting them so that they would not dig into the instrument's top after the tailpiece was fitted. Before bending the metal I put a very shallow saw-cut across the bending line, on the underside when it is bent, and heated the metal to prevent it fracturing along the bend.  Fine files were used then a fibreglass burnisher to get a good finish on the metal and all edges were cleaned up in the same way.
> 
> The decoration around the edges is mahogany strips epoxied on just to make the thing look better.

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## John Kelly

The aluminium is 3mm and I think the screws are M3.  If you can get ones with the countersunk heads rather than cheese or round heads then you won't have to file down the heads as I mentioned above.  Just countersink the holes when you drill them.

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Rvl

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## chasray

> I recently picked up a used Blueridge tenor and have been experimenting with string gauges, and have settled (for now) on .013/,020PB/.030PB/,045PB.  Sound is well balanced. This instrument seems to want slightly higher tension than a standard tuning set would yield.  So far, so good!
> 
> len 22.875"
> 
> E4   .013" PL == 22.06#
> A3   .020" PB == 21.27#
> D3   .030" PB == 21.81#
> G2   .045" PB == 21.74#
> total == 86.88#


Thanks for this. Just went to GDAE tuning on a Blueridge using these strings sizes. Works great!

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