# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  "Amazing" Antoniotsai

## Petrus

That's one word for it ... yowza!  :Disbelief: 



http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-Anto...-/131610600830

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Jacqke

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## RichM

That's truly one of a kind. Thank goodness.

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Dobe, 

Flame Maple, 

Jacqke

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## MikeEdgerton

Nothing that Antonio Tsai sells is one of a kind. Unfortunately there will be others.

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DavidKOS

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## Jeff Hildreth

There is a local music store with three of these novelties; hideous.

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## k0k0peli

That will really grab eyeballs at the next jam. Should elicit a few comments too.

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## EdHanrahan

> ... hideous.


Yeah but...  When the wood dries and it starts falling apart, does it get a) more hideous or b) less hideous?

Several years ago, The Kennedys played a concert in Montclair, NJ.  Maura played a stunning "F-style" full-size guitar that had to be retired in the middle of the show.  Being several years old (see their 2008 "Better Dreams" album cover), it had reached its expiration date.

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## George R. Lane

Lipstick on a pig.

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Flame Maple

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## Explorer

Is it really more profitable for antoniotsai and brucewei to inlay the heck out of lower teir instruments, as opposed to investing that energy into making great instruments?

I do like my Eastmans....

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## MikeEdgerton

Those instruments come from Vietnam. If they ever figure out how to make a normal copy of an A with a snakehead headstock that isn't blinged up they will probably own the low end market. Same if they can ever do a real F style. Until then they impress some people enough to buy them.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Yeah but...  When the wood dries and it starts falling apart, does it get a) more hideous or b) less hideous?
> 
> Several years ago, The Kennedys played a concert in Montclair, NJ.  Maura played a stunning "F-style" full-size guitar that had to be retired in the middle of the show.  Being several years old (see their 2008 "Better Dreams" album cover), it had reached its expiration date.


I just looked at that cover. Two Tsai Guitars and two Tsai mandolins. Really??????

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## Mark Wilson

I dunno - more inlay maybe

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## allenhopkins

Betcha that tailpiece won't last six months.

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## Timbofood

Maybe it just needs.......
More cowbell?

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## mrmando

I kinda wish someone would build a real mandolin in that shape so we could see whether it has any interesting acoustic properties.

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## Jeff Mando

I think what keeps 'em going is that eBay buyers think, "how bad can it be for $250?" (or whatever--this one is being sold by a guy in Texas for $450)  I've heard most of them implode before they make it to the buyer or shortly after, although Antoniotsai's feedback is 99% and he has done over 31,000 transactions, so......somebody likes 'em.  I saw some in person at a guitar show and although inlaid, the quality is very poor, IMHO

Also, it might appeal to those wanting a heavily inlaid instrument for about 1% of what Martin might charge you.....of course, you've got to really be into dragons.............. :Laughing:  :Crying:  :Laughing:  :Crying:  :Laughing:

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## Beanzy

> Lipstick on a pig.


Maybe we should buy one for our Prime Minister.  :Whistling:

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k0k0peli

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## Tobin

You'd think that with all that inlay work and fancy body binding, that they would put some binding on the edges of the fingerboard and at the peg head.  Kinda strange that they didn't.  Maybe they thought that would be too much, LOL.

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## barney 59

The thing may implode and in short order as mine basically did and before that the fret layout was off and was unplayable up the neck. The finish is poorly done as well with lots of little blemishes. The inlay is not to everyone's taste to be sure but there was nothing wrong with the inlay--that's done rather well! It is the instrument that is bunk! The tailpiece will not fail though as someone suggested --the thing is about a pound and a half of solid brass! That's a post Vietnam War benefit from millions of shell casings littering the country side!  I was just over that way and I see the problem --the humidity is about 95% and most likely these instruments are not produced in any kind of climate controlled environment nor is the wood, no matter what the source, likely to be stored in such a way  as to not come up to equilibrium with the relative humidity. Maybe they would work pretty good if you live in a jungle!

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Jess L.

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## Petrus

> I just looked at that cover. Two Tsai Guitars and two Tsai mandolins. Really??????


Maybe they got a good deal if they agreed to show them on the cover.

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## almeriastrings

If Liberace had played mandolin it would have been a match made in heaven.

Since he didn't (as far as I know) I can think of a different kind of match that would be useful.

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DataNick, 

Flame Maple

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## Petrus

> The thing may implode and in short order as mine basically did and before that the fret layout was off and was unplayable up the neck. The finish is poorly done as well with lots of little blemishes.


_"Sold as-is with no warranty or returns."_  Forget about any 48-hour approval with these guys.  :Frown:

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## DavidKOS

> Those instruments come from *Vietnam*. If they ever figure out how to make a normal copy of an A with a snakehead headstock that isn't blinged up they will probably own the low end market. Same if they can ever do a real F style.





> The thing may implode and in short order as mine basically did and before that the fret layout was off and was unplayable up the neck. The finish is poorly done as well with lots of little blemishes. The inlay is not to everyone's taste to be sure but there was nothing wrong with the inlay--that's done rather well! It is the instrument that is bunk!


Although I've seen Tsai's instruments and am not a big fan of somewhat sketchy instruments with overdone inlay, I will say that the 2 Vietnamese made mandolins I own (from Duc Ngan)  have been in fine working condition now for a number of years, the wood has not split, the inlays are intact, the tone is fine.

Evidently not all of these instruments are made alike.



The one in the picture is a much more normal shape, has the special side soundholes and inner rim resonator - and and doesn't have the plastic look of the Tsai instruments.

http://www.chionline.com/Antoniotsai/

Lots of complaints about Tsai's instruments

http://www.chionline.com/Antoniotsai/positive.html

Some positive comments

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261529993186...MakeTrack=true

One similar to mine for sale

http://www.saigonstrings.com/mandolin.htm

Like mine




http://www.thanhcammusic.com/guitar.htm

They make an F sort of mandolin, no idea if it's any good

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## DavidKOS

http://www.vietstrings.com/mandolins

Another seller of the ones like mine - more expensive

Attachment 138789

and I never have seen one like this - F holes and the side sound holes!

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Jacqke

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## Explorer

I'm near a Vietnamese Buddhist temple, and know quite a few Vietnamese musicians. i was surprised to play at least two of the mandolins, and to find them to be very lively.

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DavidKOS, 

Jacqke

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## DavidKOS

They are pretty lively sounding indeed!

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## barney 59

I bought mine several years ago when they first started flooding ebay. Mine is Bruce Wei I believe. There was not much in the way of reviews at the time and none on the ground that I had come across. One showed up on a no reserve auction that had fallen through the cracks and I grabbed it for $60! The shipping cost another $80 and was the best packaging job I have ever seen. Spruce top and a rosewood box --super over blinged inlay and as I mentioned above pretty nicely done whether or not you like that sort of thing or not. That type of inlay work is done on a lot of stuff in Vietnam(like furniture) and other parts of Asia as well and so there seems to be a healthy labor supply of skilled inlay people. Tuning machines,strings, case all of very poor quality and forgivable given that it's something they would have to buy and one wouldn't expect a set of Waverly's on there. The materials(wood)on the instrument are very nice. Maybe the builder of DavidKOS's mandolin is better made,you would think that at least one of the builders would concentrate on the instrument quality rather than the presentation . I have thought all along that if these builders could ever really get their act together and produce a good reliable and consistently good sounding and playing mandolin we would all be buying them. The example given above by DavidKOS is someone having already imported these mandolins to the US and then reselling here. The price we are seeing might not really be a proper idea of what the price is from a direct sale-or rather semi direct sale---most of those Vietnamese instruments seem to be handled by Taiwanese middlemen. I am hoping now that I have a situation where I will be traveling to Thailand every few months that I can go to Vietnam and see where and how these instruments are produced. I have thought that someone would eventually go there and maybe make an investment to make a proper exportable good instrument-- like people are already doing with inlay work. It occurred to me that now that I am travelling to that part of the world that maybe that person could be me!

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## DavidKOS

> ...Maybe the builder of DavidKOS's mandolin is better made,you would think that at least one of the builders would concentrate on the instrument quality rather than the presentation . I have thought all along that if these builders could ever really get their act together and produce a good reliable and consistently good sounding and playing mandolin we would all be buying them. The example given above by DavidKOS is *someone having already imported these mandolins to the US* and then reselling here......that I *can go to Vietnam and see where and how these instruments are produced*.!


Best of luck! Perhaps you will be the guy that upgrades the Vietnamese mandolin scene.

I worked for a company that used to sell these mandolins, and we got them from a jobber that went to Vietnam and purchased them. 

Indeed, my better Vietnamese mandolin could stand better tuners, but they do work. One day I'll replace them with better ones.

BTW, do any of you know what model French mandolin the Vietnamese makers copied?

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## Verne Andru

> I think what keeps 'em going is that eBay buyers think, "how bad can it be for $250?" (or whatever--this one is being sold by a guy in Texas for $450)  I've heard most of them implode before they make it to the buyer or shortly after, although Antoniotsai's feedback is 99% and he has done over 31,000 transactions, so......somebody likes 'em.


I suffered a 7-string guitar neck from those bandits. The fret work was horrible - wacky, wrong places, etc. - so he agreed to accept a return. Cost me almost as much as the neck to send it back. It took a couple months for Vietnam post office to send it back unclaimed. By then the time to file an eBay complaint had lapsed. If you look seriously at his "feedback" you'll find it is almost exclusively for things like beads, inlays, and nick-nacks, not actual finished instruments.

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## Jeff Mando

Good point, I guess the other way of looking at feedback is that 1 percent of buyers felt screwed or approximately 310 people over his eBay "career".

In that case, even though he agreed to accept a return, it is better to file a complaint with eBay to get the return documented and dated.  (Also, it sort of serves to light a fire under their keister)  That being said, I have contacted Paypal by phone and actually explained situations like this to a person and was able to get refunded PAST the 90 day limit (or at least that was the limit at the time).

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## StuartE

> super over blinged inlay and as I mentioned above pretty nicely done whether or not you like that sort of thing or not. That type of inlay work is done on a lot of stuff in Vietnam(like furniture) and other parts of Asia as well and so there seems to be a healthy labor supply of skilled inlay people.


 Not only furniture, but traditional Vietnamese plucked instruments are typically made with elaborate inlays.

However, there does seem to be a US niche for inlaids as well.

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DavidKOS

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## JeffD

I have wondered about the US market for mandolins inlayed to the limits of ostentatious and often exceeding those limits. I recall it was mostly bowlbacks at first, or it seemed anyway that all I saw from AntonionTsai and Bruce Wei were over the top decorated bowlbacks. Now its every style imaginable.

I was very attracted at first, because that eye-catching bling is something that non musician friends and family are immediately impressed by, and the mandolin music I could make at the time was ummm.... not.

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Steve VandeWater

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## JeffD

> However, there does seem to be a US niche for inlaids as well.


It is hard to understand. My thoughts early on were that most of the sales were not to players, but decorators looking for mantle pieces.

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## DavidKOS

Mine has limited inlay...no big picture on the back, just a few inlays on the peghead and pickguard.

My personal opinion would be that too much inlay may inhibit the top and back from vibrating.

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## Verne Andru

Jeff: I didn't use PayPal and by the time I realized he was a scammer it was an exercise of throwing good money after bad. I just cut my losses and moved on.

When looked at even moderately closely you'll see those inlays are very poorly done and very cheesy looking. I had considered "fixing" the bad fretwork, but given all the inlay on the fretboard, it would have been a horribly tedious job that would still look like crap regardless what one did.

BTW - I sent a money order that was cashed by a fellow by the name of Paul in Philadelphia. My gut told me this is a US based scam that's taking advantage of the cheap VN labour and distance to suck in the unsuspecting.

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## DavidKOS

> ... but given all the inlay on the fretboard, it would have been a horribly tedious job that would still look like crap regardless what one did.


The problem with those fancy designs that are not just fret markers but extend under and beyond frets, it's not a stable solid fingerboard. Those fancy inlay art work designs are pretty but certainly not as practical as a basic wooden fingerboard with fret marker inlay.

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## Chris Daniels

NFI but I just had to report the sighting of an unusual (though not necessarily for this builder) Antoniotsai mandola in the wild, and instead of creating a new thread figured I would use this as the most recent one I could find instead of one from 2004. 

Anyway, behold this oval and round-holed marvel:

 

The rest of the pics can be seen here: https://charleston.craigslist.org/ms...497518168.html

It has all the standard hallmarks of a top-of-the-line 'Tsai: Elaborate inlays front, fretboard, and back (Oooh, a saucy lady!). Dubious claims that it 'looks and plays beautifully'. Neck like a Louisville Slugger. Glossy finish over cheap wood. Large crack.

Have at it folks. It's all yours.  :Wink: 

C.

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MikeEdgerton

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## Jeff Mando

Double soundholes!!!!

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## Timbofood

The “Esther Williams”!?

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## Russ Donahue

Imagine it in conjunction with a Nudie Suit and a set of high lonesome yodels...

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## Jess L.

If my dad were still alive, he'd be a total sucker for buying these types of things. He always liked anything odd or unusual, if the price was right. That's how he ended up with a number of sub-par tremoloas and ukelins and other weird items, he just couldn't tell the difference between "unusual and awful" vs "rare and wonderful". Of course his collecting also netted him some valuable old Gibsons and other good-quality items but it was mostly just by pure chance and volume of purchases that he got some good stuff mixed in with the bad.  :Whistling:

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## lidosailing

Antoniotasi guitars .
Had a few 
Had one dry out and back cracks mostly find them. Beautiful good value  and with some TLc and some know how turn into nice instruments.

New real strings , some interior scalloping, and up graded hardware.

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