# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Gibson Post Mortem

## kvk

(Checking on online after many years absence although I still play.)

I recall years ago some scuttlebutt about Gibson -- being pricier than other brands of equivalent quality and some policy regarding in-person vs. internet sales that alienated many of their retailers (most of which are now "click-and-mortar" which is almost standard in today's economy).

From what I can tell, Gibson isn't making mandolins anymore (except maybe a couple low-end imports under the Epiphone badge).

Can anyone who knows what's up comment on whether Gibson has given up the mandolin world or just taking a break during their restructuring?  And maybe provide a summary of what has gone on?

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## Pete Braccio

They're not dead yet.

https://themandolinstore.com

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## MikeEdgerton

They are still making mandolins. *Dave Harvey* is in charge of production.

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## rcc56

What we know:

The Mandolin Store has 3 new Gibson mandolins in stock, and one that is used.
Morgan Music is listing a new F-5G in stock.
Guitar Center/Musicians' Friend is listing several models on their website, but the only models that are in stock are the F-9 and F-5GEM electric mandolin.
Sam Ash is listing the F-9 and the F-5G as in stock, limited quantity available.
Sweetwater is not listing any Gibson mandolins.

Gibson is not listing mandolins on their website.

By the way, Guitar Center is listing a 1913 blonde F-4 that appears to be in original condition for 5K.  No connection, NFI.

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## allenhopkins

Modifying OP post to _"Gibson isn't making many mandolins any more."_  Fair summary of the situation.

I hear the new ones are first-rate -- when and if you can find one.

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## Br1ck

The good news is that Gibson has bigger fish to overcook, so seems to have left the Mandolin guys alone and they are building pretty good mandolins from what I can tell from the two Harvey era mandolins I've played. The premium paid for the name is no more than a company like Collings is getting. The deal in small shop builds is Northfield, but as their reputation continues to build, I expect them to close the gap. This is somewhat evident as they produce more high end mandolins. But Gibsons are few and far between in these parts.

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lflngpicker

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## f5loar

Gibson is very much still building and selling mandolins.  I have toured factory recently and I was most impressed by the process still being done as it was under the supervision of Charlie Derrington (of which I toured the factory numerous times in the 80's and 90's). IMO Dave Harvey carries on that tradition and has a keen eye and ear for quality. He's also a pretty good picker which helps in knowing what is right and wrong with production.   I have played many of the newer ones coming off recently and can say they are still a good value for the money.  When comparing the higher end models to comparable other leading F5 makers, Gibson still floats to the top for me.  I would rather they underproduce a quality mandolin than overproduce a crappy one, aka 1970's.

----------

Bill Kammerzell, 

Bob Clark, 

cayuga red, 

KMaynard, 

LadysSolo, 

Northwest Steve, 

oliverkollar, 

Timbofood, 

William Smith, 

yankees1

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## kvk

Thanks for the responses.  I haven't seen any in shops lately so I thought that they had completely stopped.

Where is the mando factory?

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## dhergert

Nashville, Tennessee.

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## Mandolin Cafe

Good grief...

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Dave Kirkpatrick, 

dhergert, 

f5joe, 

Timbofood

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## Br1ck

If I did not come here, and were to go into every quality stringed instrument shop in the SF Bay Area, I would also wonder if Gibson were still producing mandolins. So the question is not so far fetched. TMS is soon to move, but it is the only Gibson dealer I know of, a good 400 miles away.

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Bill Kammerzell

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## Timbofood

> Good grief...


Yeah, really? This comes up a lot more than I ever had expected it would. Just because there is not a huge roll out every year of “new and improved” products a Death knell idea comes up, weird!

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Bill Kammerzell, 

jesserules

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## Jeff Mando

If you look at some of Gibson's production records for the past 100 years or so, it is fairly common to see that it has always been a supply and demand type of thing -- the demand determining what was being produced.  Certain high-end jazz guitars for example were in the catalog throughout the 60's even though some years they didn't even sell a single one of a certain model -- but it was available if somebody wanted one.  Another example is the "futuristic" series electrics of the late 1950's -- the Flying V and the Explorer -- those sold so poorly even with limited production that still new, made in the 50's examples were available at Gibson dealers as late as 1965.  I would say even more so with mandolin production which is more or less an in-house custom shop and at those prices you can't expect every dealer in the country to carry a wall full of them, IMHO.

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## Br1ck

I remember when Gryphon was a Gibson dealer. They moved quite a few high end Gibson instruments, arch top guitars, mandolins, banjos, and they would carry a Les Paul or two, perhaps a 335. Then one day Gibson told them they were going to carry Epiphone and buy x dollars worth of cheaper stuff for the privilege. Gryphon told them no thank you, our clientele is not Guitar Center’s.

At the time Collings was coming on strong, SCGC and Huss &Daulton we’re getting started. They have been doing quite well without Gibson for a great many years. Sorry I can’t go compare Gibson mandolins there. They really did sell some Gibson Archtops though.

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## rcc56

> By the way, Guitar Center is listing a 1913 blonde F-4 that appears to be in original condition for 5K.  No connection, NFI.


Looks like someone grabbed it up.

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## Mandolin Cafe

Here, let me Google that for you.

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f5joe, 

oliverkollar, 

Rick Jones

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## Timbofood

> Here, let me Google that for you.


Scott, you’re killin’ me!

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## rcc56

I don't see any reason for any attitudes.

Gibson does not list mandolins in their on-line catalog, and hasn't listed them for at least a couple of years.

Only one or two brick and mortar stores have any in stock.  And most of the listings that come up are "out of stock," or "on order" with a future delivery date.

If you go to Google and type "new Gibson mandolins," the first "people also ask" question that comes up is "Does Gibson still make mandolins?," and the answer that comes up states [wrongly, because the info is from a 2008 article] that the instruments are being made in Bozeman.

It was a legitimate question worthy of a civil answer.  The answer is not so obvious if you don't already know where to look for it.

Especially considering the absence of current information from the Gibson company itself, and the number of "out-of-stock" or "limited availability" listings that appear on the websites of Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and yes, TMS.

----------

allenhopkins, 

Bernie Daniel, 

Bill Kammerzell, 

j-hill, 

MANNDOLINS, 

Rush Burkhardt, 

Sevelos, 

WaxwellHaus, 

yankees1

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## rcc56

> Can anyone who knows what's up comment on whether Gibson has given up the mandolin world or just taking a break during their restructuring?  And maybe provide a summary of what has gone on?


No, they haven't completely given up mandolin production.  They are still producing mandolins in very small quantities.

So far, their restructuring has consisted of closing the Memphis plant and moving those operations to Nashville.  The Bozeman plant is still in operation.  There have been some personnel changes in Nashville, and a couple of operations have been moved from one building to another.  They are building a new corporate headquarters in the downtown area.  They have introduced a few new budget-priced guitar models.

Other than that, I don't think anyone knows what is going on at Gibson.  I do know a Gibson employee, and they don't provide him with much information about the company's plans.  He goes in, does his job, and collects his pay check.  The checks have always cleared.

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Rush Burkhardt

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## AgentKooper

I had the same question when I first started getting interested in mandolins.  I didn't know about the Mandolin Cafe then.  As I recall, it was a little confusing trying to figure out whether Gibson was in fact still producing new mandolins.  

I actually did find a Gibson website that mentions mandolins:

http://legacy.gibson.com/Products/Ac...yle&ModelYear=

But you apparently can't access this page from the main Gibson website.  It seems crazy that mandolins don't feature prominently alongside guitars on the company's main site.  It's a totally cool part of the company's history.  Even if they produce relatively few new mandolins, what's the downside of showcasing them?

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## allenhopkins

Not all of us -- even long-time Cafe members who, as they say, have "many years of absence" from this forum -- are as _au courant_ with the current mandolin market, and G's role in it, as those who go on the Cafe daily.  

They can be understandably puzzled as to why the company's profile, which looms so large in American mandolin history, is so limited in the current market.  I go into my local dealers, and see ranks of Gibson mandolins on the wall -- every one of them used (or, as they say, "vintage").

Which is both an indication that there's still a substantial market for Gibson mandolins -- and an indication that that market can be filled, in large part, by the thousands of still-playable Gibson mandolins the company made in the last century-plus.

I would venture to state that Gibson hasn't been noted for its brilliant production decisions or marketing strategies over the past few decades.  Hence the firm's somewhat precarious financial position in recent years.  It may or may not make sense, from their point of view, to emphasize guitar production, acoustic and electric, almost exclusively, and to de-emphasize other instruments such as banjo and mandolin (does Gibson even make banjos any more, or put their name on instruments made for them by others?  And what about resonator [Dobro] guitars?).

So there's reason to question Gibson's present -- and future -- in the admittedly "niche" mandolin market.  But still, thousands of mandolins are sold in the US every year, and very few now are new Gibsons.  That's how things seem to stand, and discussion of the situation is not just an over-worked "popcorn" topic.

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addamr

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## Mandolin Cafe

> It was a legitimate question worthy of a civil answer.  The answer is not so obvious if you don't already know where to look for it.


Worthy question, but an exceptionally poor title, that regardless of intent, inflicts potential harm into a company. That's not what the Mandolin Cafe is about. I'm not a particular fan of the company's management, and I'm not beyond calling them out when they do something wrong, which they've openly acknowledged, but the people working there have always been decent and deserved our respect. The mandolin division has always been present here on this forum, David Harvey included. 

Pronouncing a company dead, ie., "post morten," in the water when you don't know the answer is simply inappropriate. Better wording and acceptable would have been "is Gibson still manufacturing mandolins?" I stand by my criticism of the opening title, not the question.

Being "current" would only take a cursory look at the Classifieds and home page where new Gibsons show up frequently. A new one was posted yesterday and immediately sold, ad removed. Two were actually posted yesterday. How current someone needs to be may be an opinion. How difficult it is to find the truth in an appropriate fashion is not.

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f5joe, 

jesserules, 

Pjones3, 

yankees1

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## rcc56

> Does Gibson even make banjos any more, or put their name on instruments made for them by others?  And what about resonator [Dobro] guitars?).
> .


Gibson banjos were discontinued in 2009 or 2010.  American made Dobros have also been out of production for a long time.

Imported Dobros are still available.  Epiphone still offered a banjo last year.  Neither appear to be catalogued on the Epiphone website.  The only Epi mandolin model I can find in the catalog is the MM30S A model.

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## Br1ck

I'm just happy that all the bad managers at Gibson have paid so little attention to mandolins that they are still around building good ones. They sure have screwed up every other facet of their business. I say let them be ignored to do their thing.

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## J.Albert

allenhopkins asks:
_"does Gibson even make banjos any more, or put their name on instruments made for them by others?"_

No banjos since 2009. Production was essentially ended and banjo-area employees were let go _BEFORE_ "the flood" came a-washin' through...

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allenhopkins, 

Bernie Daniel

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## David Lewis

This leads me to epiphone. I take it the higher end epiphone arent being made? (Mm50e and mm40L? 

Or have they just taken them offline?

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## rcc56

Who knows?  I could look it up on Guitar Center's website, but I'm not going to take the time.
I shouldn't have to hunt for a company's products.
There are other alternatives that are easier to find.

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Bernie Daniel, 

Bill Kammerzell

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## kvk

> I don't see any reason for any attitudes.
> 
> Gibson does not list mandolins in their on-line catalog, and hasn't listed them for at least a couple of years.
> 
> Only one or two brick and mortar stores have any in stock.  And most of the listings that come up are "out of stock," or "on order" with a future delivery date.
> 
> If you go to Google and type "new Gibson mandolins," the first "people also ask" question that comes up is "Does Gibson still make mandolins?," and the answer that comes up states [wrongly, because the info is from a 2008 article] that the instruments are being made in Bozeman.
> 
> It was a legitimate question worthy of a civil answer.  The answer is not so obvious if you don't already know where to look for it.
> ...


Thanks for the response, rcc56.  The first thing I did check was the Gibson website.  Then a few stores that I know used to sell Gibson and they listed none.  Did some searching and did find conflicting information.  I have not been after on this forum for many years and came back to ask this question.  Based on some of the responses, including those from the admin, I think I will take another five year absence.

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1Yooper, 

Bill Kammerzell, 

CBFrench, 

f5joe, 

Mark Wilson

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## f5loar

It should be noted that since the Gibson F5 was introduced in 1922 it has always been a "custom" ordered model.  A dealer would have to order one based on someone putting a deposit down at the dealer.  In the 50's and 60's even the F12 was custom ordered.  In 1966 in my seeking out a new F5 I went to our local dealer and was told there was a 2 year "delivery" date, so I decided to not put the deposit down (I think it was 25%) and look for a used one.  Later I would find out that Gibson only produced 26 in 1964, 15 in 1965 and only 11 in 1966.  No wonder they had a long wait list.  They were the only people making an F5 style mandolin.   I look at buying a new mandolin like buying a new car.  You need to drive it around the block a few times before buying it.  And like cars today, you have several dozens of makers to choose from.

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addamr, 

Bernie Daniel, 

Bob Clark, 

brunello97, 

cayuga red, 

chasray, 

David Lewis, 

dhergert, 

Glassweb, 

Hendrik Ahrend, 

j-hill, 

jesserules, 

LadysSolo, 

oliverkollar, 

T.D.Nydn, 

Timbofood

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## Bob Clark

> It should be noted that since the Gibson F5 was introduced in 1922 it has always been a "custom" ordered model.  A dealer would have to order one based on someone putting a deposit down at the dealer.  In the 50's and 60's even the F12 was custom ordered.  In 1966 in my seeking out a new F5 I went to our local dealer and was told there was a 2 year "delivery" date, so I decided to not put the deposit down (I think it was 25%) and look for a used one.  Later I would find out that Gibson only produced 26 in 1964, 15 in 1965 and only 11 in 1966.  No wonder they had a long wait list.  They were the only people making an F5 style mandolin.   I look at buying a new mandolin like buying a new car.  You need to drive it around the block a few times before buying it.  And like cars today, you have several dozens of makers to choose from.


This really puts their current output into perspective.  Thanks for posting this insightful information.

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dhergert

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## 1Yooper

_<violates forum posting guidelines. Welcome to take your time elsewhere.>_

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## Bernie Daniel

> It should be noted that since the Gibson F5 was introduced in 1922 it has always been a "custom" ordered model.  A dealer would have to order one based on someone putting a deposit down at the dealer.  In the 50's and 60's even the F12 was custom ordered.  In 1966 in my seeking out a new F5 I went to our local dealer and was told there was a 2 year "delivery" date, so I decided to not put the deposit down (I think it was 25%) and look for a used one.  Later I would find out that Gibson only produced 26 in 1964, 15 in 1965 and only 11 in 1966.  No wonder they had a long wait list.  They were the only people making an F5 style mandolin.   I look at buying a new mandolin like buying a new car.  You need to drive it around the block a few times before buying it.  And like cars today, you have several dozens of makers to choose from.


IMO, that is one of the best posts here in many a coon's age -- that's some good perspective. I came into this Gibson mandolin story in about 1972 so that is good info to me. Too bad Gibson apparently did not have a clue about the demand for their F-5 mandolin product?

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Timbofood

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## AlanN

Try before you buy...that was their credo and encouraged. The well-known ad for the 20's catalog had a slip one could fill out, send in and receive an F-5 to try. What a deal.

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Bernie Daniel

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## rcc56

While F-5's may have been special order instruments in the old days, at least they were in the catalogs.

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## MikeEdgerton

> ... Too bad Gibson apparently did not have a clue about the demand for their F-5 mandolin product?


To be totally honest, the demand for the F5 didn't really come until decades after the primary production. It was a specialty product for decades as Tom's numbers above show.

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brunello97, 

Timbofood

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## brunello97

> I look at buying a new mandolin like buying a new car.  You need to drive it around the block a few times before buying it.


That's what I know.

Mick

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## mingusb1

> I'm just happy that all the bad managers at Gibson have paid so little attention to mandolins that they are still around building good ones. They sure have screwed up every other facet of their business. I say let them be ignored to do their thing.


Disagree. I've played and owned numerous Gibson flattops over the last 15 years and they have been good. I consider the Advanced Jumbo to be the most guitar for the money out there that I know of.

Cheers,
Z

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## yankees1

> Worthy question, but an exceptionally poor title, that regardless of intent, inflicts potential harm into a company. That's not what the Mandolin Cafe is about. I'm not a particular fan of the company's management, and I'm not beyond calling them out when they do something wrong, which they've openly acknowledged, but the people working there have always been decent and deserved our respect. The mandolin division has always been present here on this forum, David Harvey included. 
> 
> Pronouncing a company dead, ie., "post morten," in the water when you don't know the answer is simply inappropriate. Better wording and acceptable would have been "is Gibson still manufacturing mandolins?" I stand by my criticism of the opening title, not the question.
> 
> Being "current" would only take a cursory look at the Classifieds and home page where new Gibsons show up frequently. A new one was posted yesterday and immediately sold, ad removed. Two were actually posted yesterday. How current someone needs to be may be an opinion. How difficult it is to find the truth in an appropriate fashion is not.


I would like to find a reason to disagree with you for once ---but I can't !  :Smile:

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Timbofood

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## Br1ck

> Disagree. I've played and owned numerous Gibson flattops over the last 15 years and they have been good. I consider the Advanced Jumbo to be the most guitar for the money out there that I know of.
> 
> Cheers,
> Z


Ill agree as to consistency, but the only guitar Id want to own would be the J45 vintage. All the others were good but not great, with one nice exception being one Sheryl Crow. But on two or three visits to a dealer that was supposed to be special, I forget the marketing term they are using, they never once had a J 45 or a J45 vintage. They had a wall of artist models and special editions. Ever see the Donovan J 45, or a rosewood J45? When I asked why no plain J 45s, I was told the store owner said they had to sell what they had in stock before they could order any more Gibsons. What they had was guitars that were forced down their throats by Gibson, including a $10,000 Bob Dylan J200. Did they have a regular one? No.

What you wont find these days is a 50% dog rate. So I really do think the mandolin shop is so insignificant that the corporate guys leave them alone. This is a good thing.IMHO

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## MikeEdgerton

I had a Southern Jumbo that I loved the way it looked. That's all I'm going to say about that.   :Cool:

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## Roger Adams

Seem to be alive and well..... :Smile: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NY6mgm21Bo

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## mingusb1

> IÂll agree as to consistency, but the only guitar IÂd want to own would be the J45 vintage. All the others were good but not great, with one nice exception being one Sheryl Crow. But on two or three visits to a dealer that was supposed to be special, I forget the marketing term they are using, they never once had a J 45 or a J45 vintage. They had a wall of artist models and special editions. Ever see the Donovan J 45, or a rosewood J45? When I asked why no plain J 45s, I was told the store owner said they had to sell what they had in stock before they could order any more GibsonÂs. What they had was guitars that were forced down their throats by Gibson, including a $10,000 Bob Dylan J200. Did they have a regular one? No.
> 
> What you wonÂt find these days is a 50% dog rate. So I really do think the mandolin shop is so insignificant that the corporate guys leave them alone. This is a good thing.IMHO


I haven't been shopping at brick-and-mortar for a new Gibson in a long time but that sounds like a bummer. The Guitar Center by my old office (Raleigh) used to keep a 45 in stock most of the time, but that was years ago. You can regularly see used AJs and 45s here on the classifieds and at umgf, and a quick check of reverb shows about a dozen used AJs coming in at about 2k or less. And there are many more 45s on there, even a few True Vintage models. But then you have to buy (or at least hold) without playing and have it sent to you. I'm not crazy about that but have done it. I have a great 1946 J-45 and the new Gibsons I've had, while different of course, compare pretty favorably. 

Cheers,
Z

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## Dillon

> Worthy question, but an exceptionally poor title, that regardless of intent, inflicts potential harm into a company.


That's hilarious  :Laughing:

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## Br1ck

I want to clarify my previous post. Gibson guitars give most folks what they want. A warmer lush tone, just like the post 2012 D 18. But what I want is an earlier dry thumpy clear vintage tone, and the J45 vintage does just that very well. But that might not be the tone you are after. I’d say from the business of running a company, Gibson is more likely to be right than I. So is Martin.

A friend has two 39 D 18 authentics, both really wonderful guitars, but I’d probably take a ‘57 or ‘65 if I found the right one.

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## Frankdolin

I'm waiting for them to register "Authentic". They've changed the way we interpret the word forever.

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Timbofood

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## Br1ck

I was a torrification skeptic until playing the J 45 vintage. But still, it wasn’t a banner but closer than I’d have expected.

I ended up with a ‘65 Epiphone Texan. IMHO, something good happens to wood thirty to forty years on.

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## Bob A

If what you want a Gibson for is that old vintage sound, why not just get a nice old one? All the Boomers are dying like flies, or selling off their collections, so it's not like they can't be had. Who cares if new Gibsons that you like are not available? It's not like the world is running out of good old guitars.

Plenty of good mandolins out there in the wild, by a bunch of talented makers, as well. Even some nice used Gibsons.

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## Bill McCall

> ............All the Boomers are dying like flies, or selling off their collections, so it's not like they can't be had.................


Many of us geezers maintain our good health just to infuriate the younger working stiffs :Whistling:

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brunello97, 

hank, 

jesserules, 

Timbofood

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## rcc56

. . . and do not plan on dropping any time soon.  Some of us can even still play pretty good, and if we decide to let a good old instrument go, we might add a 20% surcharge when we smell contempt, depending on our mood.   Or maybe even 30%, if you want the instrument bad enough.

And some of us can even tell you why the modern "vintages" and "authentics" will never sound like the old ones.  And no, it ain't magic wood, and it ain't magic glue.  It's not decades of vibration, either.
Huh??   :Disbelief: 

If you're nice we might drop you a hint.
Here's one:  It's not rocket science either.
Here's another:  An ancient three word saying that sounds like an oxymoron but is not.

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## Br1ck

Ain’t nothin’ like geezer rage is there? I for one plan to go out drinking the last of the twenty year old scotch, not floating belly up in someone’s soup.

- - - Updated - - -

Aint nothin like geezer rage is there? I for one plan to go out drinking the last of the twenty year old scotch, not floating belly up in someones soup.

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## rcc56

I was hoping this thread had finally died.
We older folks don't take to contempt any more kindly than younger people do.

I'm unofficially shooting this thread right between the eyes.  Exhume at your own risk.

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Timbofood

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## kvk

> I was hoping this thread had finally died.
> We older folks don't take to contempt any more kindly than younger people do.
> 
> I'm unofficially shooting this thread right between the eyes.  Exhume at your own risk.


I'd say "OK boomer" except I'm a boomer, old enough by three months to buy my groceries an hour early tomorrow morning.

-k

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## Jeff Mando

I've worked at vintage guitar stores, guitar shows, and have done repairs forever and have heard a bunch in all price ranges......bottom line, a good guitar is one that sounds good.  Sure, if money is no object, buy an $8,000 banner logo Gibson -- you won't be disappointed.  If you don't have $8K, think outside the box....last week I played a used USA Larrivee dread for $600 that would have made anybody happy for a long time.  Lotsa good stuff out there, both vintage and recent, IMHO.

As far as age goes, yep, I'm even grumpier than I used to be.  And, I'd give my left you know what to be 40 again, not that 40 is young, but sure....  The weird thing about age is that everything in life repeats, but only old people get this ('cause younger people are going through it for the first time)......

So what good is all this experience and wisdom if nobody believes you??????????? (joking, of course......) well, half-joking.....

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Bob Clark, 

Hubs

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## Bob Clark

> I've worked at vintage guitar stores, guitar shows, and have done repairs forever and have heard a bunch in all price ranges......bottom line, a good guitar is one that sounds good.  Sure, if money is no object, buy an $8,000 banner logo Gibson -- you won't be disappointed.  If you don't have $8K, think outside the box....last week I played a used USA Larrivee dread for $600 that would have made anybody happy for a long time.  Lotsa good stuff out there, both vintage and recent, IMHO.
> 
> As far as age goes, yep, I'm even grumpier than I used to be.  And, I'd give my left you know what to be 40 again, not that 40 is young, but sure....  The weird thing about age is that everything in life repeats, but only old people get this ('cause younger people are going through it for the first time)......
> 
> So what good is all this experience and wisdom if nobody believes you??????????? (joking, of course......) well, half-joking.....


Amen, brother. . .amen to it all.

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Jeff Mando

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## allenhopkins

If I'd known how much fun it was to be in my 70's and retired, I'd have retired in my 20's...

Every musical instrument manufacturer's had ups and downs: Fender guitars when CBS owned the company, over-braced Martin dreadnoughts from the '50's and '60's (remember "voicing" Martins?  And "careful, that voids the warranty?"), Gibson's ill-conceived "Kasha"-braced guitars, Vega bluegrass banjos, "Reso-Glass" fiberglas National guitars, etc., etc.  (Actually, "Scruggs Model" Vega banjos were decent instruments; just not so decent that Scruggs would actually play one, off-camera.)

What worries me more about Gibson's current status, is that there seems to be a permanent abdication from manufacture of instruments where the company (or its recent acquisitions) were once pre-eminent: Mastertone banjos, Dobro resonator guitars are good examples.  Gibson acoustic guitars have always been a particular taste, not for everyone.  My first good guitar, after a Harmony "brown box" and a Stella-by-Harmony 12-string, was a mid''60's "slope shoulder" J-50,  and I have a soft spot in my heart for it.  I bought it from Harry Tuft at the Denver Folklore Center, as a Sp4 who'd saved up a bunch of pay checks; my sister owns it now, and I doubt it gets played much.  

But I found most modern Gibson acoustics, like the '60's J-200 my singing partner Bonnie owns, somewhat dead sounding.  I've heard the Montana-made ones are better, but not enough interested to investigate -- especially at G's current prices.

As to mandolins, you can't mass-produce them in the US any more -- not the way companies like Lyon & Healy, Regal -- and Gibson -- did a century ago.  The market's too small, and Asian competition too established.  So what G is doing is becoming a small-scale shop, competing with individual luthiers and a couple other smaller-scale builders like Collings and Weber.  They've got their name, and a century-plus reputation, on their side, and that's enough to keep them going at that level of production.  I think we complain in vain that Gibson doesn't seek a higher profile; after all, how much higher could they go?  I'll bet they sell every mandolin they build without having to work real hard at advertising, increasing dealer inventories, or other marketing strategies -- and at damn good prices, too!

You never know -- really -- when another wave of mandolin popularity might come along.  I cite the ukulele as an example.  When I started playing stringed instruments -- and Henry VIII was on the English throne -- there might have been a single uke in a well-stocked dealer's showroom.  Now, you trip over dozens of them on your way to buy octave mandolin strings.  Why?  I dunno.  But I'm glad enough to teach ukulele classes here, mostly to retirement-age women who "always wanted to play an instrument" and find ukulele accessible, reasonably-priced, and you can play _You Are My Sunshine_ after two lessons.

Of course, _none_ of the ukuleles are made by Gibson; none are made in the US, for that matter.  Someone missed the boat here -- though Martin was smart enough to build a uke factory in Mexico.  Absent a mandolin craze, and the construction of a Mexican factory to make Gibson A-50's, guess we're stuck with what we've got.

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Scot63

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## dhergert

Regarding the banjo market, Gibson made so many of the 1986 to 2010 '34-style re-issues that the market is really still flooded (no pun intended).  As such I don't think demand has caught up yet.  It's probably smart for Gibson to wait until they know they can successfully sell banjos again, and can at least compete with the domestic boutique market.  

Similarly, the domestic boutique market for resonator instruments has been strong for a long time, and even before the Nashville flood Gibson's later Dobro models were having trouble competing.  There again, it's probably smart for Gibson to wait until they can compete.

I think Gibson is making the right budgetary decisions about banjos and Dobros, considering their recovery.

Having watched the flooding of the banjo market, one thing I'd hate to see is Gibson similarly flooding the mandolin market.  With a mildly limited supply, their mandolins are still sort of special.

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allenhopkins

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## double E

Im not quite old enough yet to get in to the grocery store early yet, not to far off, lol. As I've said on here before, I have only been learning mandolin about 2 years. I bought a used 2015 Gibson F-9 Dave Harvey from the Mandolin Store maybe a year ago. I have a couple of prewar Gibson conversion banjos that are the best of all the banjos I have had over the years. Thought about selling the F-9, just to try one of the Northfields. Maybe I should just hang on to the F9 and add to the mandolin collection when we get out of this pandemic. I do like the F9 by the way, I thinks its a great mandolin for the price.

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## Timbofood

I would not bother trying to sell anything for a while. A global disaster is a tough time to sell much aside from toilet paper.
And now, my last bastion to avoid doom and gloom I have destroyed myself!
Im going to stand in the corner in the basement, apologies to all.

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## Br1ck

It seems a lot of people with nice mandolins want a Gibson, and lots of people with Gibsons want a nice something else. Is this the latest trend? Multiple mandolins?

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## pheffernan

> It seems a lot of people with nice mandolins want a Gibson, and lots of people with Gibsons want a nice something else. Is this the latest trend? Multiple mandolins?


Br1ck, I’m what you call a social media influencer.  :Laughing:

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## Br1ck

You set a fine example for us all. But you only have one subspecies,  gibsonus mandolinus viperallis. You need gibsonus mandolinus scrollidoscious too.

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## pheffernan

> You set a fine example for us all. But you only have one subspecies,  gibsonus mandolinus viperallis. You need gibsonus mandolinus scrollidoscious too.


Well, if we are being strict in our classifications, the gibsonus genus has evolved over the last century, with several subspecies apparently going extinct though their DNA continues to be expressed in new ones. No one is denying the elegance of this fossil from the Kalamazoic Era:



Our records indicate that they stopped breeding in 1947:

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/99856

But we do find modern mandolini that, though lacking the distinctive head markings, have a strong family resemblance. Take, for instance, the statmanus:

 

And notice its familiar call:



We see a similar pattern with the flattitopicus, whose cousins proliferated through the 1930s though their forebears were seemingly snuffed out in the teens. But is there not a stunning likeness in the Andes poescoutus?



The griffithificus is, of course, the stuff of legend, with only one confirmed sighting in the wild back in 1923. However, experts have found that its unique asymmetry is mirrored in todays Gallic hesteri:



Beyond that point, we move into the realm of mystery, particularly with the slightly larger mandolus. Now, the fossil record indicates at least one example of the mandolus viperallis:



But there has only been conjecture on whether there might have been one with the modified violini rather than the cloaca ovalus. If so, researchers believe it would have looked an awful lot like todays testore:

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Don Grieser, 

oliverkollar, 

Timbofood

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## pheffernan

As for the scrollidocious, its flamboyant display is found on a range of modern mandolini. My personal favorite it the stefani:



Now, unlike our earlier examples, there is significant evidence in opposition to this threads title that the gibsonus mandolinus scrollidocious is still extant in the wild, even the apex predator of its kind:

http://www.mandomutt.com/products-pa...n-master-model

But here too, interestingly, we find dissent, as many experts believe that a greater likeness is found outside the gibsonus line:

https://wiensmandolins.com/wiens-f5-45/

Truly, these are fascinating times for those of us engaged in the field work.

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Don Grieser, 

Timbofood

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## Br1ck

Has there been a Smergeliticus sighting lately?

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## pheffernan

> Has there been a Smergeliticus sighting lately?


Your question speaks to the the paradox at the heart of all attempts to investigate the shmergeliticus, for how can there ever be a sighting when it is impossible to look directly at one?

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## kvk

> Your question speaks to the the paradox at the heart of all attempts to investigate the shmergeliticus, for how can there ever be a sighting when it is impossible to look directly at one?


Simple.  Polish up your National and use it to look at a reflection.  Just like Perseus   slayed Medusa.

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## pheffernan

> Simple.  Polish up your National and use it to look at a reflection.  Just like Perseus   slayed Medusa.


Alas, I am no demigod. Although that might explain . . .

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