# Music by Genre > Jazz/Blues Variants, Bossa, Choro, Klezmer >  Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

## SincereCorgi

A brief survey:

I've been playing in a little string jazz combo, the guitarist of which sometimes likes to plug in. Now...

Seeing as how the mandolin's place in jazz is already barely justifiable, and how most electric mandolins sound like electric guitars capo'd halfway up the neck, should I feel enticed by, say, a Phoenix jazz mandolin, or is it just going to sound like a higher and less satisfying extra guitar voice? Is the sound of a mic'd acoustic mandolin preferable to maintain its identity?

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## Pete Martin

Because of what the mandolin is (fretted stringed instrument played with a pick), it will always have some "guitar like" qualities in an ensemble.

I play about 50-50 electric and acoustic with various instrumentation. When I play electric, I shoot for a sound like Wes Montgomery, so I use a Mann EM4 and appropriate amps.  What I don't like is the acoustic 8 string to sound "electricified" so I mic it and use a Shertler dyn pickup and Unico amp if needed.  Both work fine.

Most of the time I like to know what instrumentation I'm playing with, then decide which sound will go with that best.  Lets say the other instruments are bass (upright amplified), piano, horn, drums, I almost always pick the 4 Mann and use the amp that will give me the desired sound and volume.  The "electric guitar" sound fits in fine with that.

If I'm playing with acoustic guitar, violin and unamplified upright bass, I'll always go to the 8 string, as its sound fits that ensemble better.

Try to determine what you want to sound like and find gear that does that for you.

I like the sound of an oval hole instrument more for Jazz, so I use a Gibson A2.  My Gil is for when I play fiddle tunes and Bluegrass.

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Elliot Luber, 

hank, 

Jim Nollman, 

mandrian

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## delsbrother

> Seeing as how the mandolin's place in jazz is already barely justifiable


Wow.

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David Lewis, 

LKN2MYIS, 

Mike Bunting

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## SincereCorgi

> Wow.


Hey, I'm just saying: you show up to play jazz with a mandolin or an oboe, you're going to get funny looks.

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## Pete Martin

It's the musician, not the instrument...

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bohemianbiker, 

hank, 

LKN2MYIS, 

Mandolinian, 

Mike Bunting

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## Bob Kirkland

I have to say since jumping into the jazz idiom four years ago I have encountered only one person who expressed anything but complete acceptance and enthusiasm.  The very best sax player in town (who teaches jazz at the local university) once said "It's so refreshing to hear the mandolin."  Maybe I've been lucky - the most talented players have been the most encouraging.  Playing now with a young trombonist from the university; he digs it and so do I.

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## Charlieshafer

All I can say is listen to Jason Anick. We just had him at our series for a show with his brand new quartet, and while he spent half the time on violin (he's exceptional there, being John Jorgenson's violinist) the other half was on his new, electric Paul Lestock Arrow Jazzbo. It's a hollow-bodied instrument, just like, gosh, most all jazz guitars. The voice is decidedly different than a guitar. The chord voicings are different. It's different, and a great sound. After hearing it in a virtuoso's hands, you'll wonder why more players don't use it. You'll also wonder why more players don't play jazz. His new cd, Sleepless, is great, but doesn't do justice to his live performances. We filmed the heck out of that show, so as soon as we do a little editing, I'll get some youtubes up. 

It really is a "great leap forward" for the instrument in jazz. But, think hollow-bodied instead of solid-bodied. The jazzbo is essentially a little Gibson jazz box, with it's own humbucker-type pickup, just plug and play. With proper tone control, it has that great round 3-dimensional tone. Waaaaaay cool.

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## Dobe

> Hey, I'm just saying: you show up to play jazz with a mandolin or an oboe, you're going to get funny looks.


Unless your name is Jethro, or Grisman, or... :Popcorn:

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## stevejay

It would be more odd to show up at an old time picking circle with a trumpet. But it could certainly work. Dixieland jazz  seems to accept a whole range of instruments, except the poor hurdy-gurdy. I don't think Charlie Parker ever jammed with a hurdy-gurdy, but who knows, he might have had an open mind to it. I'll bet Coltrane would have. I think it comes down to open mindedness. :Grin:

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## SincereCorgi

> All I can say is listen to Jason Anick...


I'd be eager to hear that Jason.

(As a side note: please, don't let's nobody think that I am against mandolin as a jazz instrument- I think the fact that it isn't is basically an accident of history. My problem is to figure out how to approach playing alongside an electric guitar without sounding like I'm doing the same thing, just smaller.)

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## Charlieshafer

> (As a side note: please, don't let's nobody think that I am against mandolin as a jazz instrument- I think the fact that it isn't is basically an accident of history. My problem is to figure out how to approach playing alongside an electric guitar without sounding like I'm doing the same thing, just smaller.)


Very true about the history/accident thing. Just die to the timing of jazz, the banjo, of all things, was a major contributor to the early Preservation Hall sound, as well as most all the early jazz orchestras and speakeasy shows. 

Anyway, back to playing... what Jason, and other mandolin jazz players, do really well is to exploit the tuning in fifths thing. Chord arpeggios can sound different just due to the nature of the way the chords are fingered, and the obvious tone of the shorter string length. I'd love to see more arch-top 8-strings, just so one could take advantage of the tremolo potential.

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Elliot Luber

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## Perry

> My problem is to figure out how to approach playing alongside an electric guitar without sounding like I'm doing the same thing, just smaller.)


I suppose listening to "two-guitar" jazz records would shed some light. It could only be easier to stay out of each other's way with a mandolin and guitar. Bill Frisell and John Hall had a recent duo record. I'm sure there are others examples as well.

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SincereCorgi

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## Mandobart

I suggest listening to Jethro Burns or Tiny Moore.  I think you'll get the point.

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DavidKOS, 

Tom Morse

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## SincereCorgi

> I suggest listening to Jethro Burns or Tiny Moore.  I think you'll get the point.


I've heard that one... hopefully I 'got the point'. This is all sort of getting away from my original idea, which was to ask in particular about the tone of electrified mandolin and whether it gets lost beside an electric guitar. (The Tiny Moore and Jethro duets record, for example, would sound pretty different if they were both playing electrics, and I think casual listeners would have no idea which electric sounds were Moore and which were Shamblin.) There's been some very good suggestions, though. That Jason Anick guy's got _monster_ technique, Jason.

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## catmandu2

> Very true about the history/accident thing. Just die to the timing of jazz, the banjo, of all things, was a major contributor to the early Preservation Hall sound, as well as most all the early jazz orchestras and speakeasy shows.


I love Danny Barker--when I first heard PHJB do Mood Indigo I was hooked (on tenor banjo) as serious as anything





The guy I'm most familiar with is John Abercrombie.  if you want to explore a modernist approach like this--an e-mando (like John's) is evocative

I presume you're talking about post be-bop, sincerecorgi?  Like Charlie says, there's been a lot of (trad) "jazz" been played on banjos, tenor guitars (and a mandolin or two)...I play some Jelly Roll Morton tunes--and of course Duke, and all the other standards--on TB (and mando, when I have to)

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## SincereCorgi

> I presume you're talking about post be-bop, sincerecorgi?  Like Charlie says, there's been a lot of (trad) "jazz" been played on banjos, tenor guitars (and a mandolin or two)...I play some Jelly Roll Morton tunes--and of course Duke, and all the other standards--on TB (and mando, when I have to)


Yeah, the main stuff we're doing is '10s-'30s, but we've been branching out to some later period things... out came that big guitar amp and it got me to thinking about electric mandolins and their place.

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## rico mando

no less point than 2 guitars playing together . If you want to sound very different from guitar then stay acoustic with 8 strings and use lots of tremolo . otherwise just do not worry about it and consider yourself to be playing a very similar instrument as the guitarist .

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## DSDarr

Check out the second half of this Austin City Limits from 1980 with Johnny Gimble, Tiny Moore, and Jethro Burns for various combinations of electric and acoustic mando jazz.



-David

p.s.

Check out the first half of this show for an early incarnation of the DGQ with Mark O'Connor on guitar.

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lukmanohnz, 

Ryk Loske

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## bobby bill

I got two words for you:  Paul.  Glasse.

Seriously, if the real question is why have an electric mandolin if there is an electric guitar, listen to Paul Glasse and Mitch Watkins.  There's your point.

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Mark Seale, 

Mike Bunting

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## mrmando

Glad Jason got an instrument he likes! I brought him a Bacorn and an Earnest Swamp Cat to try out a while back, but I guess they weren't quite up to his expectations.

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## catmandu2

Can't wait to look (listen) to that clip David

Maybe in addition to Martin's, Bobby's and all the other suggestions...perhaps it's been suggested already.  if you DON'T hear space for you, then, don't play.  It possible the other guitar isn't leaving space, or context, for your mando.  If.nothing else, listen and see if you can't add an embellishment, a harmony line, a weird extension to a chord.  Remember a blues feeling (lyrical), or a Latin feel (rhythmic...it worked for jelly and Danny B).  The acoustic mandolin will always be able to create a rhythmic/percussive element; the 'lectrik--a lyrical or harmonic, inherently

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## Don Stiernberg

I agree the mandolin's place in jazz music is not assumed as it is in other styles. I always point out that there are well established traditions of jazz violin and jazz guitar. The mandolin being a mashup of sorts of those two points to it being a perfect instrument for jazz, just as it's all fifths tuning and symmettry make it easier to access improvisational ideas..

 One of the first things I saw at the Jazz History Museum in New Orleans was Freddie Keppard's mandolin. The great Wild Bill Davison of Milwaukee/Chicago/NYC also allegedly played mandolin. The Charlie McCoy sides now thought of as "blues" mandolin are in large part early jazz records.

 Johnny Gimble himself refers to Western Swing as "Dixieland played on string instruments"..

 The more I listen to Tiny and Johnny on their electrics, the more mandolinistic it sounds. This in spite of both of them being influenced by electric guitarists such as Charlie Christian, Junior Barnard, and Django Reinhardt..Maybe it's the fifths tuning always allows for note sequences unique to our instrument.

 Jethro recorded every which way--acoustic round hole, F-hole, Fender electric, Gibson eight string electric(solid body and hollow body with floating pickup)He liked them all, liked being heard. You always knew it was him. When I got into five string electric playing I remember him saying "if I need to sound like that I'd just play guitar". I remember thinking "yeah, Jethro I would too if I could play guitar like you!" He was great on guitar and again you always knew it was him.

 One legend has Glen Campbell learning to play guitar by transcribing Tiny Moore solos off Bob Wills records(thinking they had been done on a guitar), then blowing peoples' minds by being able to play stuff that seemed barely possible on the guitar..

 I like Pete's comments above, as usual. All these instruments have a place. Jazz is about individual expression so the instrument and sound that allows you to react to the tune and the ensemble in your own way should work fine. But sure enough don't expect everybody(even fellow musicians) to "get it". Favorite humorous or poignant memories here include the man who came to the stage and asked about my five string electric. "It's an electric five string mandolin" I said. "Like a mandola and mandolin together in range, with a kind of electric guitar timbre". "OH NO IT ISN'T!" he said. Then the jazz DJ to whom I handed my CD...when I asked if he might play it, he said "I gave it to the folk DJ".  Hmmmm...Stella by Starlight and You Stepped Out of a Dream, folk favorites I guess...

 Volume is a factor. If there's a drummer you'll almost certainly need to amplify. Same with horns. The amplification can come from a mic, pickup, board, amp, whatever..

 Rhythm role to play? Can you play rhythm on a single-string? Sure, it's just different. If there's a guitar or piano or drums or horns around you're probably already lightening up on rhythm..

 Do guitar players play(chunk-chunk) rhythm guitar anymore? Not too many, save the gypsy guys..

 I wish I had more opportunity to play electric five string. When those chances come I set mine with a warm tone and embrace the similarity to guitar tone..single notes with the thumb a lot, four note chords behind the guitar solos..

 Truth be told though I usually play an amplified or mic'd eight string, since that's what most folks recognize as a mandolin.

 Listen to Paul Glasse for sure! That will answer a lot of questions. Also not to be missed is Jason Roberts with Asleep at the Wheel (!) and Doug Dalton, the unsung swing-jazz hero with The Whipporwills(Roy Lanham on guitar). The aforementioned Jason Anick is terrific. I love his mandolin playing because it is mandolin playing. Sure he bends strings, but he doesn't sound like he's just doing his fiddle stuff on another axe, he meets it where it is. Bryce Milano is another who speaks the jazz language on both eight string acoustic and five string string electric..Oh hey Michael Lampert too on the solid five string. Great! And Barry Mitterhoff uses his electric a fair amount with Hot Tuna..different style there but more evidence that the mando doesn't necessarily lose it's identity in the company of guitars...

 Mandolin. Greatest. Instrument...any style, any band..right?

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Amy Burcham, 

Bob Bass, 

bobby bill, 

Charlieshafer, 

CHASAX, 

guidoStow, 

Jim Garber, 

Mike Bunting, 

Paul Kotapish, 

Rick Jones, 

Ryk Loske, 

SincereCorgi, 

Tom Morse

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## Charlieshafer

> Glad Jason got an instrument he likes! I brought him a Bacorn and an Earnest Swamp Cat to try out a while back, but I guess they weren't quite up to his expectations.


Yeah, not sure what the issue was with anything else. He said he'd been looking for a while, but I'm thinking he was shooting for that fat hollow archtop sound, as we spent a bit of time on the check getting the tone just right...

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## Dale Ludewig

Don,
That's pretty funny about the DJ stuff.  Your point about volume speaks volumes.  Last night we saw the NIU jazz ensemble, which is a world class group.  Amazing musicians.  Mostly brass: saxes, trombones, trumpets.  Great bass player, drummer, pianist, and archtop guitar player (electrified).  And I mentioned to my wife that "the guitar player can't be heard when doing rhythm at all, and even when he gets the rare solo you can still barely hear him".  I guess a lot of it has to do with who's in charge of the group.

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## Paul Kotapish

> I suppose listening to "two-guitar" jazz records would shed some light. It could only be easier to stay out of each other's way with a mandolin and guitar. Bill Frisell and John Hall had a recent duo record. I'm sure there are others examples as well.


I think you mean Bill Frisell and _JIM_ Hall. Jim Hall was one of Frisell's mentors, and they have recorded a CD (_Hemispheres_) and a few other sides over the years.

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## Pete Martin

> I suppose listening to "two-guitar" jazz records would shed some light. 
> I'm sure there are others examples as well.


The Joe Pass - Herb Ellis records are wonderful for this.

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## lukmanohnz

> Check out the second half of this Austin City Limits from 1980 with Johnny Gimble, Tiny Moore, and Jethro Burns for various combinations of electric and acoustic mando jazz.
> 
> 
> 
> -David
> 
> p.s.
> 
> Check out the first half of this show for an early incarnation of the DGQ with Mark O'Connor on guitar.


Can you people please stop posting videos like this?  I need to practice, and this is NOT HELPING!!!  :Crying:

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George R. Lane, 

Rick Jones

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## lukmanohnz

Just finished watching that ACLU episode (and NOT PRACTICING....  :Mad: ).  That performance belongs in the National Archives!  Wow!!!

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## DougC

Should I feel enticed?  Only you can tell.

Most electric mandolins sound like electric guitars. Yes.

Is it less satisfying? Only you can tell.

Is the sound of a miked acoustic mandolin preferable? Only you can tell.


Do electric guitars have a different voice and identity than acoustic guitars?  yes

Is this different sound for a mandolin justifiable? Only you can tell.

Hrumpf!  :Wink:

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## Perry

> I think you mean Bill Frisell and _JIM_ Hall. Jim Hall was one of Frisell's mentors, and they have recorded a CD (_Hemispheres_) and a few other sides over the years.


Thanks yes of course......Jim...I don't know why I typed John.....Hemispheres is an interesting CD. Disc 1 is just Bill and Jim so you can really hear the two guitar interaction.

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## journeybear

> Can you people please stop posting videos like this?  I need to practice, and this is NOT HELPING!!!





> That performance belongs in the National Archives!  Wow!!!


No kidding. I got barely more than a minute into the second half (where I started) when I realized I was going to put this in the archives. That way i can dial it up any time  want to listen to (not watch) while doing other things on my computer. How to devote time to practice is another issue, but "thought practice" is always useful.  :Wink: 

Oh - astonishing this has less than 2000 hits. Well, perhaps after more thought, not surprising at all, given several much-mentioned factors affecting public tastes, perceptions, appropriate roles,  and popularity where mandolins are concerned. 

Pretty sure that all that was meant in the OP by the phrase "barely justifiable" is that mandolins have not shown up in jazz much historically, and bringing one into a jazz setting even now is bound to bring some odd glances, vebiage, and otrher reactions. Not that it can't hold its own, but it is bound to be regarded with some skepticism and perceived as a novelty. I get a lot of that when playing mandolin in a rock context, another genre where the instrument is not commonly used historically nor considered appropriate by the general population (evidence of hundreds of uses on the listings of rock songs w/ mando thread to the contrary). I have taken great pains to find ways to make it sound right for the songs and styles I play; jazz mandolinists should too. And if you can work some quintessentially mandolinistic characteristics into what you are doing and these work well with the ensemble sound, i would call that successful, worthy of a big ta-da!  :Mandosmiley: 

As to what is the point - that's always hard to determine. We're devoted to an area of human endeavor many (particularly non-musicians (the vast majority) and even a lot of music lovers) consider pointless, so there may not be much point in wondering about this at all. But aside from playing jazz on an A model, there is bound to be _some_ point, IMHO.  :Grin:  Even on an A model, if you're playing it right.  :Cool:

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Ryk Loske

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## journeybear

BTW, while this should indeed be added to the National Archives, it will not be added to my personal archives.  :Frown:  After several unsuccessful download attempts, I have concluded that downoading has been disabled. I have also concluded that I am indeed crazy, as I did the same thing repeatedly, hoping for a different result. That's how much I wanted it - I was willing to risk my sanity. What's left of it, anyway.  :Wink: 

Gotta say - nice to hear the old theme music again. And I don't remember shows beginning with a live scene taped inside a bar (presuming this was at Armadillo World Headquarters). This was an extra treat, hearing in the background Willie Nelson covering Bob Wills' classic, "Stay All Night." Now _that's_ Texas!

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## Pete Martin

I take my electric mando to many Jazz jams in the Seattle area.  The first time I show up, I do get some funny looks.  Now folks are happy to see me.

As said by someone, somewhere: "Just do it!"

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## delsbrother

Do you think Mike still has the tunic?

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## paul dirac

Loved the tunic and really dug the video!  Sure this has been covered, but is that a 2-pt. oval hole Monteleone that Tiny is playing?  Is this instrument well-associated with him, and has it been discussed a bunch on The Cafe?  Also, what F is Jethro playing?
Thanks!

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## mandroid

Anyhow , notice the different sound on the Tiny, Johnny and Jethro  of how the choice of the amplification
 type used <> i expect Jethro Had a sound board pickup in there, 
 Tiny used magnetic pickups on a solid body and Johnny had a magnetic pickup on a hollow body.

Even with 2  Viola tuned 4 strings the body cavity under the bridge adds something [1 of each , here]

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## Dave Gumbart

Today I came across a recording of an old John Hartford, Vassar Clements show from October 1974, from the University of Florida (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=560743) .  In and of itself, a cool set of music.  In checking out the set list, it makes note of Vassar on e-mando on My Rag.  No way!  You can hear some tasty playing from Vassar all throughout, but hang in there until the 1:30 mark, and he gets to open it up a bit.  Good fun, and I thought worth sharing on this thread.

Dave

p.s. go with the 2.23 mb version.  Not sure why the first attempt to create an mp3 file was only 30 seconds, and I'm not sure if I can delete that original upload.  The larger file is the whole tune.

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Charlieshafer

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## Tom Wright

Guitar is a versatile instrument and I love it but, probably because I grew up playing violin, I only found true freedom to find notes and improvise after I committed to 5- and 10-string mandolin. While tone has some import, having something to say and the capacity to deliver it justifies using any instrument. So I don't try to avoid sounding like a guitar, because I can do things on the mandolin that I can't on guitar. 

When I sit in with guitar players I do separate myself tonally, but there are many ways to do that. When the jazz guys are using the neck pickup on their guitars, I use the treble pickup on the 5-string with tone rolled back, a la funky John Scofield, or I use my Buchanan with magnetic pickup and deliver a rich 10-string tone. The main separation, though, is playing differently, and commenting on, improving on, or contrasting with what the others did.

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Charlieshafer, 

John McCoy, 

John Soper

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## MandoSquirrel

> BTW, while this should indeed be added to the National Archives, it will not be added to my personal archives.  After several unsuccessful download attempts, I have concluded that downoading has been disabled. I have also concluded that I am indeed crazy, as I did the same thing repeatedly, hoping for a different result. That's how much I wanted it - I was willing to risk my sanity. What's left of it, anyway. 
> 
> Gotta say - nice to hear the old theme music again. And I don't remember shows beginning with a live scene taped inside a bar (presuming this was at Armadillo World Headquarters). This was an extra treat, hearing in the background Willie Nelson covering Bob Wills' classic, "Stay All Night." Now _that's_ Texas!


I downloaded it successfully using Mozilla Firefox with Download Helper. Very few, if any, UTubs I can't download if I want them.
It is a great show, and I'm one who prefers mando to sound like mando, but I always love Tiny Moore's playing, regardless.

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## Barry Mando

I see that I am a tad late on this topic but I have to say there is a point. The mando, preferably the Baritone Mandolin for me, is my voice, my extension, and the best way for me to express my art. I play quite a few instruments, guitar included, and have just never found as much joy with those as I do with the baritone mando. One of the things I like about it the most is that its in the range of a guitar and it being a single string instrument I can do all the bends and "tricks" that one can on guitar. If you like this video then, please, check out my trio, The Barry Mando Project. Its a more modern approach in the jazz world with a variety of influences coming from around the world. Enjoy.

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## mandrian

Danny,

I really enjoyed that, but what exactly is a baritone mandolin in terms of scale, tuning, number of strings, etc?

Thanks.

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## catmandu2

Really Nice Danny!

I'm with you and need a longer scale length (than mando) for comfort

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## Barry Mando

Thanks, guys! Baritone is in reference to the register that the instrument is in. The baritone Mando is tuned an octave lower than an acoustic but has a fifth string which is a high b to put it out of an octave Mando range and into a baritone. Low to high its tuned GDAEb. Not exactly sure of the scale length but I believe it's around 18" or so. It's a unique instrument for sure and a lot of fun to play, especially jazz music. 

Best

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mandrian

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## 250sc

First off, Danny, great playing and great tone.

I think there is as much point to electric jazz mandolin as there is any other instrument. The instrument is just a conduit used to express the musicians ideas.

Since the OP stated this is a survey of sorts I'll give my opinions.

8 string acoustic mando: I love it in a jazz setting. A couple of my favorite jazz recordings are by Don Stiernberg.

5 or 4 string electric mando: Sure they work fine for jazz but I don't see them bringing anything to the party that electric guitar can't.

Bottom line, in my opinion, it's all about the player.

Full Disclosure: I sold my mandolin 5 years ago due to repetitive movement injurys and used the money to buy a nice hand carved archtop guitar, which I find less stressful on my left hand but as I said, it's just a conduit (tool) to convey ideas.

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## JeffD

> My problem is to figure out how to approach playing alongside an electric guitar without sounding like I'm doing the same thing, just smaller.


My thoughts run towards an eight string emando. Then you have the chorus effect of unison strings, and killer tremolo opportunities. It keeps it mandolinny.

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Ryk Loske

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## Mandobar

> Hey, I'm just saying: you show up to play jazz with a mandolin or an oboe, you're going to get funny looks.


Or you are Paul McCandless

Jazz is not about boundaries.  It's probably the most innovative form of music there is

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## jasonanick

Since my name seems to keep popping up (thanks for the kind words by the way!), I figured I would post my thoughts on the topic. The first thing I would like to point out is that there really is no difference between a guitarist going between playing an acoustic guitar and electric guitar and a mandolin player going between acoustic and electric mandolin. One of the reasons that the electric mandolin is often thought of as less then an electric guitar is because a lot of mandolin players either started on guitar or double on guitar so they feel that if they had to choose between the electric guitar and emando, the guitar would be their first chose since yes, comparatively it has a larger range of notes and potential for chords. That being said though, if mandolin is your primary instrument or you are more comfortable soloing on the mandolin, there is no reason that your shouldn't be like every guitar player and own/play both an acoustic and electric mandolin and switch depending on the setting your playing in. I personally enjoying playing both acoustic and electric mandolin and switch between them depending on the group I am playing with and the overall sound I want. 

My new axe as Charlie mentioned is a 5 strings acoustic/electric "jazzbo" made by Paul Lestock. The low C string opens up more potential for chords along with an extended range for soloing. Because of the larger scale length, the C string really rings out and doesn't sound too flabby or loose like other ones I have tried. The scale length isn't too drastic though, so it doesn't feel too different from playing a four string or regular 5-string. The semi-hollow body aspect gives it a little more acoustic sound and warmth which works great for swing and jazz. It doesn't however make my SAGA emando obsolete, I see it more as owning a Gibson arch-top and a telecaster (to bring it back to guitars) so each works better in different settings. I have been using the SAGA solid body more for playing with rock/country bands since it can gets more volume and cuts.

For my closing argument, I would like to say that I think the most important thing we can all do as mandolin fans is to start changing the attitude and stigma of electric mandolin so it's seen as a legit instrument and tool for great music making just like any instrument! 

Jason

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David Lewis, 

Rick Jones

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## Rick Jones

Great post, Jason. I watched the vids with the Jazzbo, and it (and you) sound great together. Any new projects in the works? If "Sleepless" was an analog disc, I'd have worn out the grooves by now.

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## Mischievous Swing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ0P9z3WtSM

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## Mischievous Swing



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alfie, 

BHart, 

DSDarr, 

Jim Nollman, 

lowtone2, 

mandrian, 

Mike Bunting, 

Will Patton

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## John Rosett

Mighty fine, Shelby!

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## lowtone2

John Abercrombie used an Fender electric solid body quite a bit back a few decades. He said that thought of it as his version of Coltrane's soprano.

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## CHASAX

I never buy electric guitar jazz. Can not stand the tone.  May as well be a computer tone.
Like Jazz Mandolin Project, but I think that was miked mandolin.
Don't think I have heard electric mandolin jazz.

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## Shelby Eicher

Here's a clip of Isaac playing the Jazz mandola. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tix9WeND5Y[/VIDEO]

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DSDarr, 

lowtone2

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## Shelby Eicher

Here's another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYFNOG-i8_U

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mandrian

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## Petrus

So you can do stuff like this (replace bass with mando, obviously.)  :Grin:

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## David Lewis

The problem with jazz is that someone bought in the rule book and is enforcing it. Just the opposite of what the great jazzers, from ragtime guys like Joplin, then through Bix, Bechet, Armstrong, Basie, Ellington, Goodman, Christian, Lang, Johnson, Venuti, Parker, Gillespie, Jethro, Miles, Pastorius, Clarke, Montgomery, Hendrix, Corea, Fleck and many others did. I play a 4 string Jbovier: it sounds great in jazz (as it does in everything I use it for). The one who we need to thank is Ted eschliman, who showed many of us it was possible.

You want to play a 10-string? Go for it! Play as many 'outside' notes as you can! You want to play a four string, and distort it. And play all pentatonics? Do so. See what happens. You want it to be acoustic? Great! Let's go to town! Play, play, play. Play till you can't move your fingers. Then keep playing. 

That's all you need.

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DSDarr, 

Jim Nollman, 

lowtone2, 

Magnus Geijer, 

Mandobart

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## Petrus

And to accompany stuff like this.  This guy's got the bottom end taken care of, but the emando would be perfect for the top.  :Cool:

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## mandopops

Jethro played Electric Mandolin Jazz, quite a bit. Good examples are the Venuti Album , 4 Giants of Swing-S'Wonderful, packed with Ellington, Gershwin & other standards. Also, Jethro's own "Live" album is a good example. On both, I think he plays great & sounds great on his Electric Gibson Mandolin.

Joe B

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## Mark Seale

Western Swing, but, well, it just doesn't get better...

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sgarrity

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## Shelby Eicher

Let's see if this works. It's a sound cloud link to bebop western swing. https://soundcloud.com/isaac_eicher/...aces-the-south
Cheers,
Shelby

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## Joel Glassman

Mighty fine Shelby!

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## Joel Glassman

Tell you what... :^)
I hate reading this statement every time I stop by this part of the forum:
 "Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?"
Yes. The point is self expression. Even if it sounds somewhat like 
an electric guitar.

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DSDarr

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## SincereCorgi

> Tell you what... :^)
> I hate reading this statement every time I stop by this part of the forum:
>  "Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?"
> Yes. The point is self expression. Even if it sounds somewhat like 
> an electric guitar.


If you read the original post, you'll see that I'm talking about the sound of an electric mandolin in a jazz combo _alongside_ an electric guitar. There aren't a lot of rhythm sections with two electric guitars.

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## Joel Glassman

I did read the original post and don't have a problem with the content.
Just the title, which is there every time I stop by.
Sorry. I shouldn't have commented on it.

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## Shelby Eicher

We don't need no stinking guitar!

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lowtone2

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## lowtone2

I'm really getting to be a huge fan of Michael Lampert on eMando.  He's recorded several albums, all excellent, and most of the tunes are originals. 

A sample. 







And some standards:

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lenf12, 

Rick Jones

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## Pittsburgh Bill

> A brief survey:
> 
> Seeing as how the mandolin's place in jazz is already barely justifiable, and how most electric mandolins sound like electric guitars capo'd halfway up the neck, should I feel enticed by, say, a Phoenix jazz mandolin, or is it just going to sound like a higher and less satisfying extra guitar voice? Is the sound of a mic'd acoustic mandolin preferable to maintain its identity?


Wow! Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But for me, I rarely like hearing most types of Jazz minus a mandolin. Just wish that my playing be more proficient at playing the jazz that I like listening to. Is your post in reference to eight string mandolins or those four and five string mandolins used in jazz? 
Peace

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## lenf12

> Is your post in reference to eight string mandolins or those four and five string mandolins used in jazz? Peace


Shouldn't we have one of each? Jus' sayin'  :Wink: 

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## mbruno

I'd agree with Pete's note about "whatever instrument sounds good with the band".  

Aaron Weinstein is one of my favorite mandolin players - he does a lot with both electric and acoustic (as well as being an amazing jazz violinist).  I'd check out a few of his videos.  Then there's folks like Tiny Moore

Here's Aaron on an electric 8 string - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IMOuAHlvQ
Here's another with Aaron backing himself up - https://www.pegheadnation.com/featur...hing-but-love/
Here's Aaron playing acoustic solo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v__MDt1ePAA
Here's Tiny Moore on a 5 string - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se9k...rv=EaSwEACYCmM

Personally, I'm not a fan of 8 string amplified - I like my 5 string better (that high B is a great add!) but to each their own on that.  IMO a 4 or 5 string sounds a lot like a 6 string guitar.  An 8 string sounds more like a 12 string guitar - which has it's place, but isn't as universal to my ears.

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## Tom Wright

Here is an example of how I find electric mandolin useful, as a jazz instrument. 10-string electric in a bass/drums trio. This is a preview of a video concert that will post Sunday, May 1. Set was about an hour, mostly original material. This tune is one I used to play in the 70s in a rock group, Grits.

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DSDarr, 

James Vwaal, 

L50EF15

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## Tom Wright

Another preview of upcoming video concert, my jazz blues., "Blue Iz Mir".

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Bill McCall, 

DSDarr, 

James Vwaal, 

L50EF15

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## Tom Wright

Here is the YouTube link for the show on Sunday, 7:30 pm.

https://youtu.be/UuKWWvfPVKU

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Kenny, 

L50EF15

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## Tom Wright

Facebook link

https://www.facebook.com/events/2974...e%22%3Anull%7D

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L50EF15

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## L50EF15

OMG! I love Grits! Also The Muffins, the Montgomery County “food bands” (I grew up in P.G.).

This is a wonderful arrangement of a great tune, swings more straight ahead than the version on Rare Birds. Brilliant demonstration of the possibilities.

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## L50EF15

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. Now I have to figure out what I can do to mount a mic or pickup on one of my mandolins, or start saving up for an electric

Tom Wright, I am listening to your trio on YouTube as I write. Phenomenal stuff.

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## Tom Wright

Here's a remix of the opener from the video show.

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DSDarr, 

James Vwaal, 

L50EF15

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## Harmon Gladding

When we heard Rickie Lee Jones at the Kent Stage a few years ago, in her ensemble was a woman playing a 4-string electric mandolin which had an excellent real mandolin sound.  And the concert was fabulous.

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## JeffD

> My thoughts run towards an eight string emando. Then you have the chorus effect of unison strings, and killer tremolo opportunities. It keeps it mandolinny.


I have grown wiser in the last 9 years. I now go the other way, single string electrics. I find them much easier to control.

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## Perry

Couple of weeks ago I dusted off my Ryder 4 string (looks like a Telecaster). I sat in with some friends and did an entire show of Grateful Dead stuff. Prior to the show I did a fair mount of translating my Dead guitar  knowledge to mando. It was a lot of fun and it perked my interest again in electric mandolin and mandolin in general. I have been on a deep dive of solo jazz guitar. I am now enjoying translating some of that jazz guitar stuff to mando.

So yeah they are similar especially if you play both guitar and mandolin but there are some definite mandolinistic sounds that only come out on the fifths tuning.

Abercrombie tuned his electric mandolin like a guitar so that doesn’t count  :Smile: 

Don’t know if this Facebook post will work….it’s a clip from the show mentioned above. Many of those runs in the beginning is the Ryder as is the beginning of the big jam.

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## JeffD

Going back to the original posters question so many years ago...

The electric mandolin will add to an ensemble things an electric guitar will not. Especially in something improvisatory, like jazz or rock or swing. The electric mandolin will be played differently than the electric guitar. The intervals, the harmonies, which choices of progressions are easy and which are harder for a mandolinner, versus those of a guitar, the mandolinners intuitions developed with things tuned in fifths, all of that is going to be unique to the mandolin. Unless one went after emulating  guitar solos note for note, the mandolin voice is going to be unique to the mandolin, even if the specific tonal qualities of the instrument. weren't

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lowtone2

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## lowtone2



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