# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > CBOM >  Where did all the mandocello guys go ?

## Mandomonte

Not many posts lately. Maybe still sorting thru Bernie' s video postings.

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## NotMelloCello

I was wondering the same thing.

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## Eddie Sheehy

They were all at the Mandolin Symposium and still recovering from lack of sleep...

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## Martin Jonas

I blame the World Cup eating into my practice time...

For what it's worth, I'm still enjoying my Suzuki 'cello.  The D'Addario strings have nicely settled down and I found an old tortoiseshell pick I'd never liked with mandolins but which works really nicely with the mandocello.  Just need to get better at reading bass clef now.

It's nice being able to play the low parts in orchestral arrangements.  Here's a recording I made last weekend of an old mandolin orchestra arrangement of the theme from East Of Eden (the James Dean movie), with double-tracked mandocello. The original mandocello part is mostly on the D and A strings and gives a nice growly tremolo, and I've also played the contra bass part on mandocello, mostly on the C and G strings.



Martin

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## Mandobart

I've been out on a road trip.  I just posted a few more pics of my 10 string mandocello in progress.

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## NotMelloCello

Kewlish!

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## Marcus CA

Maybe there haven't been many posts lately because there is nothing new to post.  That sounds like a challenge!  We need a great new mandocello album to discuss, a mandocellist's tour schedule, new videos for Bernie's thread.  The mandolin world constantly gets those "What's the best mandolin to buy at a certain price point?"  and "I can't decide whether to buy a Collings or a Weber" and "I just saw Chris Thile's show last night" threads to keep the action going.  Not much of that around here.

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## Mandomonte

O.K. , I'll start. How many of you actually own, or play a'cello ? What brand and for how long ? Whst would you different, if you were to buy another ? Maybe we are a real minority.. qualify for assistance from the Feds ? Eastman 805-3 months. I love it !

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## NotMelloCello

I currently have a solidbody mandocello I converted from a cheap electric Washburn to see if I liked it.
Ready to build one for real, and hope to find a cutaway Eastman jazz box to convert for some acoustic archtop action.

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## Martin Jonas

> O.K. , I'll start. How many of you actually own, or play a'cello ? What brand and for how long ? Whst would you different, if you were to buy another ? Maybe we are a real minority.. qualify for assistance from the Feds ? Eastman 805-3 months. I love it !


Not very many mandocellos around -- it's a rather specialised taste.

Mine is a Suzuki MC-815, which I bought about four months ago.

Martin

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## Bernie Daniel

I agree quite on the mandocello front. I've been on Prince Edward Island the last three weeks so no mandocello -- only took along a mandolin.  But while I was gone the solder on the tail piece I made for my Gibson conversion let go.  There is a thread on it called "When mandocellos go bang" in the Builder & Repair section if you want to read about the saga.  

Also I finished the The Loar archtop to 5-course mandocello (cittern? lutio?) project and will probably post a video of that after I can get Will Kimble to take a quick look to make sure my set up is OK.  He can tell more in 30 secs than I can in three weeks so I value his input.

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## Beanzy

Have had an Oakwood mandoloncello for 2.5 months. Not mine, it belongs to the orchestra MOoD. 
Playing three pieces on that at the Sidmouth folk festival where the orchestra will be performing; 
Vivaldi Dmajor Concerto
Dill Pickles Rag
River Ockment

also performing on the '22 Calace;
Henry Atkinson #187
Tom's Dance  (our very own Mark Woodward's tune arranged by Matt Norman) . 

I'm actually quite stoked that we're playing there because it's a fairly big Folk date on the UK calendar, it puts mandolin orchestras in front of a folk audience who may be players, it does it in a way that makes it look accessible and very much 'of the people' so should generate much interest from people who amy want to do similar if it looks accessible and relaxed.

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## violmando

I'm still playing my Larson Brothers mandocello that I've posted pics of before....my quartet just had its last rehearsal today as our first mandolinist is moving to WA next week. I wish I had more opportunities to play my lovely instrument,

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## jesserules

> The mandolin world constantly gets those "*What's the best* mandolin to buy at a certain price point?"  and "I can't d*ecide whether to buy* a Collings or a Weber" and "I just saw *Chris Thile*'s show last night" threads to keep the action going. .


"action"? ....

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## Bernie Daniel

> "action"? ....



I think Marcus was wanting topics beyond the "routine"?  

Ok I'll throw this one out there -- hopefully it does do seem too self-serving...

I recently converted a new The Loar LH-300 arch top guitar into a 5 course mandocello (or maybe the correct name is lutio or cittern)  --in any case after I play through a set of strings to make sure it is a solid instrument I intend to offer it of sale with the new Guardian case shown in the pic below.  My question is how to come up with a reasonable asking price?

To break even obviously one would ask for the cost of the guitar plus the cost of the conversion (parts supplies  possibly labor) -- but my question is more basic.  

I don't want to discuss just this specific instrument as that might violate posting rules.  

But I am wondering, in theory, for a conversion like this what is the resulting mandocello worth compared to the arch top guitar that it came from? What factors market/supply-demand etc would drive this ratio?

For example assuming the conversion work is good quality-- so essentially the quality of the instrument is equal the original arch top guitar.  Give that how does its value change?

Certainly a mandocello is more rare than an arch top guitar -- but the demand is less as well.  Obviously, the reason I am asking these question is would converting more guitars to mandocello make any sense?

A bit of historical information the first 1951 Epiphone I converted is now in the hands of what I am told is a happy customer and I would say the price obtained for it was a bit better than a break even situation.

Just curious how others might see this situation and different views on how the question might be evaluated.  Turning this question over to the CBOM jury.

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Barry Wilson

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## Eddie Sheehy

Interesting topic, Bernie.  And, similarly, I have a guitar-bodied Octave Mandolin that was built as an octave mandolin, but the same builder also builds Arch-top guitars using the same body, AND the same body for a mandocello.  So, according to the maker, reslotting the nut and bridge for bigger string gauges and adjusting the relief in the neck now makes this same instrument a Mandocello - see Rozawood website and compare MC-5 and OM-5 - and check out his guitars.  I have to wonder, given the rarity of MC's but also the smaller market, which configuration would yield the higher resale value?

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## Marcus CA

> I think Marcus was wanting topics beyond the "routine"?


That's always nice!  However, I was trying to say that there doesn't seem to be as much to write about --- the "action" --- in the mandocello realm.  Unless you are ordering a custom 'cello, there aren't too many options to discuss.  You're looking at either an Eastman or a flat-bodied Weber.  If you are ordering a custom 'cello, then no matter what your price point is, you probably will only find a builder or two at it, and there won't as many people who can speak about his mandocellos as there will be those who can speak about his OM's and/or bouzoukis.  As for players, I was saying that in the mandolin world, there is excitement when one of the greats releases a new cd or goes on tour.  In the mandocello world, after you talk about what Mike Marshall is doing, the conversation doesn't go much further.  So, the challenge is to somehow change that, with more instruments and recordings released into the world.






> I recently converted a new The Loar LH-300 arch top guitar into a 5 course mandocello (or maybe the correct name is lutio or cittern)  --in any case after I play through a set of strings to make sure it is a solid instrument I intend to offer it of sale with the new Guardian case shown in the pic below.  My question is how to come up with a reasonable asking price? ...
> 
> Certainly a mandocello is more rare than an arch top guitar -- but the demand is less as well.  Obviously, the reason I am asking these question is would converting more guitars to mandocello make any sense?
> 
> Turning this question over to the CBOM jury.


Good luck finding twelve people for that jury!   :Disbelief: 

In the flattop world, Santa Cruz Guitar Co. has made a few mandocellos out of dreadnought guitar bodies.  I don't know how the 'cello price compared with the price of the comparable guitar, though.  It might be interesting to check into.  

Lacking much business sense (full disclosure there), I can see putting the Loar up for sale at a price that you would be very happy to get, and then see what happens.  Since you're talking about a cittern here, though, that may not give an accurate picture of the world's interest in a converted mandocello.  Still, you might get a sense of interest.  If there is none, you can lower the price a bit to see whether that makes a difference.  I dunno.  However, you might have a lot of fun seeing what happens.

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## Gerry Cassidy

> Interesting topic, Bernie.  And, similarly, I have a guitar-bodied Octave Mandolin that was built as an octave mandolin, but the same builder also builds Arch-top guitars using the same body, AND the same body for a mandocello.  So, according to the maker, reslotting the nut and bridge for bigger string gauges and adjusting the relief in the neck now makes this same instrument a Mandocello - see Rozawood website and compare MC-5 and OM-5 - and check out his guitars.  I have to wonder, given the rarity of MC's but also the smaller market, which configuration would yield the higher resale value?


I saw your Rozawood on the classified, Eddie. I was SOOO close to taking it. I have one of Roman's ROM2's (2-point OM) and, of the couple hundred, or so instruments I've owned over the years, it's unquestionably in my top 5. I don't doubt your OM5 would sound/play superbly as an OM, or MC. Roman is highly regarded as one of the best guitar builders in Europe. I've had the chance to meet him a couple times. He is a MAJOR Larson Brothers officianado.

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## Mandobart

> O.K. , I'll start. How many of you actually own, or play a'cello ? What brand and for how long ? Whst would you different, if you were to buy another ? Maybe we are a real minority.. qualify for assistance from the Feds ? Eastman 805-3 months. I love it !


I currently play an Eastman MDC805.  I've had and played it for about four years.  I've asked a friend to build an F4 style mandocello for me recently, mainly as his instruments are the best I've ever played in terms of sound, playability and fun factor.  Also so I'll have matching F4 mandolin, OM and 'cello.  I've always guesstimated there are about 1000 guitar players for every mandolin player (including the overlap from those of us that play both), about 100 mandolin players for every OM player, and probably 100 mandolin players for every mandocello player.  There are currently 53.7 mandobass players in captivity worldwide.

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## Charlieshafer

Been playing a Weber custom vintage F 'cello for about 4 years now, and have to say it has taken over the bulk of my playing time (other than classical stuff). The voice it has just makes people's heads spin when they hear that thing in the mix with a bunch of fiddles and mandolins. 

I did the switch to the Thomastik Infeld strings a few months back, and absolutely love them. The standard D'Addarios certainly had the volume and tone, but for me they just had a slightly metallic tone and were a little noisy when sliding around. The T.I.'s are a little softer, so I had to raise the bridge a little, but it's just as easy to play with the slightly higher action.

As far as music, it's an old-time beast. I've found that the best sound comes when you really get moving on it, and the sustain of the notes played a few seconds ago blend with the notes you're playing now, and it just sounds like an orchestra. I just tell anyone who is giving it a try to make sure they hit lots of open drone strings if possible (and if they work, of course) just to see how much sound they can build up inside the box. Once they get to that tipping point, it's a whole new ballgame.

Play 'em hard and loud and then they can really sound like something else. That'll get more players..

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## Mandomonte

A local Luther recently converted a brand new Godin ( Pretty sure) archtop to a mandocello. Has built a lot of nice classical guitars and one awesome deadnaught ( first guitar he ever made). He did a very credible job. I tried to buy it, but he wasn't selling, yet. I ended up scoring my used Eastman for $1500. He was thinking of making a few of these priced well below the Eastmans and consequently much less than a Weber. If if had the bucks, I'd go with a Weber f-octave , like Sierra plays. I love my Eastman and am wearing it out, so probably would not sell it. Can't seem to appreciate the flat tops. There just seems to something more awesome bout saying & trying playing a ,"mandocello" We may be few in number, but special and dedicated to our muse.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Been playing a Weber custom vintage F 'cello for about 4 years now, and have to say it has taken over the bulk of my playing time (other than classical stuff). The voice it has just makes people's heads spin when they hear that thing in the mix with a bunch of fiddles and mandolins. 
> 
> I did the switch to the Thomastik Infeld strings a few months back, and absolutely love them. The standard D'Addarios certainly had the volume and tone, but for me they just had a slightly metallic tone and were a little noisy when sliding around. The T.I.'s are a little softer, so I had to raise the bridge a little, but it's just as easy to play with the slightly higher action.
> 
> As far as music, it's an old-time beast. I've found that the best sound comes when you really get moving on it, and the sustain of the notes played a few seconds ago blend with the notes you're playing now, and it just sounds like an orchestra. I just tell anyone who is giving it a try to make sure they hit lots of open drone strings if possible (and if they work, of course) just to see how much sound they can build up inside the box. Once they get to that tipping point, it's a whole new ballgame.
> 
> Play 'em hard and loud and then they can really sound like something else. That'll get more players..


Excellent information!!   So do you happen to have any YouTube videos of your group?  Love to hear your Weber in action as you describe.   I am always looking for good tips on how to play the mandocello and it sounds like you have a great groove going.

As what I have for mandocellos.  Well, for starters I am now down to only 3 mandocellos and one cittern (5-course mandocello).

Te first conversion I made a 1951 Epiphone Zenith arch top is now in the hands now of a player in PA and I have heard (from Mike at Bedford Banjos) that he likes it so that is good.  

I still have a 1940 17" Vega arch top conversion that is just sitting there in its case -- too bad too because it is a monster growler!  I will either sell it or add a pick-up to it for a e-mandocello it has the original vintage HS case with it still!  

I am restoring my 1936 Gibson K-1 -- weak top --so it is mostly in the case now.  

My main mandocello is a 1942 Gibson L-50 conversion did last winter (time flies) that  I now call a K-50!   :Smile:   I try to play it every day but have a lot of degenerative arthritis in my hands and it is by far the hardest instrument to play - and the worst in terms of hand pain!! Bummer.

Finally I have the new The Loar LH-300 that I made into a 5-course mandocello -- CGDAE.  It is a lot of fun to play because you can use your mandolin fingerings to play fiddle tunes on it.  Also it plays a little "easier" than a standard mandocello because with 5-courses spread over a guitar fret board the inter-course separations are a little bit less -- and so it seems like you can play faster.  I do have little "start up trouble" going directly from mandocello to citten -- takes 30 minutes for me to really adapt to the closer spacings.

The citten will be on the classifieds one of these days soon with a new case to boot.  :Cool:

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## jesserules

So ... what do you mandocello guys think of blue chip picks?

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## Bernie Daniel

> So ... what do you mandocello guys think of blue chip picks?


I don't -- I use the "thin" Wegen TF-100's for mandocello -- with those heavy unforgiving strings I like a pick that gives a bit to make sliding from course to course easier and smoother.  I have used a BC (TP 60) on mandolin from time to time but I don't find it particularly useful for mandocello.

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## Mandobart

I use the same picks for all - mandolin, mandola, OM and 'cello.  A couple blue chips, assorted Wegens, old JD tortex and gators (at least 2.0 mm).  My favorite pick these days are by Papa's.

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## NotMelloCello

Depending on how I am feeling that day, I use either yellow or green Tortex picks - modified by using an Exacto blade to crosshatch both sides of the pick. Makes it easier to hold onto, so it doesn't rotate while I strum.

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## Charlieshafer

Real mandocello players don't give a hoot about wimpy things like picks. We have thick strings, long fretboard reaches and strong fingers. Our cases are big and heavy. We can use rocks for picks if we want. Some will even use tombstones if nothing else is available. 

That some here have even mentioned their pick is somewhat embarrassing. Do not, under any circumstances, discuss what smaller people call a "warm-up." If you're not ready to play, you're not ready to play...

Bernie, I'll see about doing a youtube thing. The whole huge fiddle group is playing at an antiques fair in a week or two, and maybe I can talk one of the family members into filming it, and then, of course, editing out all the bad parts, leaving you with perhaps a8 seconds out of a one hour show..

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Barry Wilson

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## Bernie Daniel

> Real mandocello players don't give a hoot about wimpy things like picks. We have thick strings, long fretboard reaches and strong fingers. Our cases are big and heavy. We can use rocks for picks if we want. Some will even use tombstones if nothing else is available. 
> 
> That some here have even mentioned their pick is somewhat embarrassing. Do not, under any circumstances, discuss what smaller people call a "warm-up." If you're not ready to play, you're not ready to play...
> 
> Bernie, I'll see about doing a youtube thing. The whole huge fiddle group is playing at an antiques fair in a week or two, and maybe I can talk one of the family members into filming it, and then, of course, editing out all the bad parts, leaving you with perhaps a8 seconds out of a one hour show..


Great idea and these days you can post 1 hour video to YouTube!  :Smile:

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## Barry Wilson

I am not much of a player but I own one.... so busy the last while I haven't played mine much though am using it on an original song I am recording... it has taken over a few songs for the bass... I joined a band friday. gonna be a tough weekend. I have a solo gig east of here saturday night then sunday morning playing the street festival with completely different equipment... when they asked if I knew a keyboard player I said me... stupid stupid lol.. I got up with them for a set this friday and played mandolin blues. never get to be the solo guy. too fun

well there's my weekly ramble... now to find me a tombstone (still giggling over that post haha)

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Charlieshafer

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## Colin Lindsay

> Great idea and these days you can post 1 hour video to YouTube!


Handy for a Japanese traditional tune I once heard the second note was at about 59 minutes  :Smile:

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Charlieshafer

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## Patrick Melly

Here's a simple but elegant Gypsy mandocello by Walt Kuhlman.


I bought it secondhand from Cafe member Jeff, aka jjh, who ordered it from Walt.

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Walt Kuhlman

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## Ken Olmstead

Have not spent much time on my Eastman since getting it properly set-up. Great sounding instrument. I don't know how much effort it will get but I do need to find some time to bond with it more!!

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## clobflute

Just passing through, but I'm sure this needs some revision/updating to reflect what is in the market for 2014. 

What would you consider a good starter mandocello? 

For us in the UK, the only real quality investment seems to start with Paul Hathway mandocellos (A style).  The Flyde and Ashbury mid-price ones are so so. 
In the USA, there seems to be a huge choice, but the cost of a decent Weber A style is still double that of a Hathway.  
In Europe, the Carvahlo and Portuguese ones seem to abound, but sound very much like the Ashburys.

I guess it's hard to compare UK and USA luthier based mandocellos, and perhaps the cost of mandocellos make it impossible, other than fix us regionally into which ever luthiers live where. 

The Weber Gallatin F mandocello seems to be a work of art to me: I have the baby Gallatin A mandolin, and although I don't particularly like F mandolines, the F mandocello with its massive size seems to make the F look appropriate?   Optical illusion perhaps.    In the meantime, I guess I'm just in the fantasising stage.  I need another year on the mandolin to work out my pick-up rate, before thinking about owning every single mando-body I come across  :Smile:

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## Phil Vinyard

I got my Freshwater Mandocello from the Cafe Classifieds about 9 months ago.

Totally cool instrument. But I'm a little stumped about what to play on it. 

Does anybody just play these in a jam? Playing on the beat as opposed to chop chords? 

I played the regular 'cello for years, but most 'cello music is boring even on a mandocello. Except for the Bach unaccompanied suites. But that takes you just so far. 

Any suggestions for good solo literature?

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## Charlieshafer

Phil, if you're looking for written material, I got nuthin. I do play mine in jams all the time, and probably half the time take the equivalent of fast bass runs, and then jump in on the melody when it's a pace where the fiddlers aren't burning. Essentially, I treat it as a low-voiced old time fiddle, where I'll hit open strings frequently (assuming they fit with the key and the tune, of course) and build up lots of sustain and noise. You can come up with a lot of interesting counter-melodies this way.

It's one of those instruments where you really need to experiment. Just to get an idea of what it can do, I recommend you play along with Ru. That makes no sense, I know, but Rushad Eggleston is one of the real innovators in the way a cello is played, and his early recordings with Crooked Still (he was on only the first two cd's) are a real eye-opener if you want to experiment. Download two songs to get an idea: Lulu Gal from the first album, Hop High, and Ain't No Grave from the "Shaken By A Low Sound" cd. Keep up with the pace, hit open strings, and have at it. You'll soon see what the possibilities for the instrument are, even as a solo instrument. Both cd's are worth having, being a former cellist, as these are the two that really launched the revival for the cello in old-time or "alternative" strings music. Walking around the halls at the New England Conservatory a few years back, all the cellists wanted to play just like Rushad. Now, many of them do. 

One thing I rarely do is use it for chords and chordal accompaniment. Every now and then, sure, but not often. I don't try to chop with it. There's just way too much resonance and sustain to get a true hard chop; they always sort of end with an echo, and that ain't right. Anyway, get used to experimenting, as there are too few great mandocello-specific pieces out there. Well, there's always Mike Marshall and Darol Anger's "Borealis", but there aren't many at all that are that good.

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## Phil Vinyard

Wow! Ru is something else! http://youtu.be/XpJNWNgtsuE?list=PL3C95FD59017BE7E8

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Marcus CA

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## bratsche

I never heard of this guy Ru before, but he's downright crazy!  His "Bach vs. Eggleston" has me absolutely ROFL cracking up, here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mv3eFcGK-A

bratsche

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## Charlieshafer

Here, play this on your mandocello. It's fun and a great exercise in strangeness. Rushad had all our kids playing this and his number one hit, "I Peed On A Bird" where they had to sing also. Pretty hysterical.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Wow! Ru is something else! http://youtu.be/XpJNWNgtsuE?list=PL3C95FD59017BE7E8


Yes he is a character - -he has a lot of videos on YT - find some or them where he plays the cello standing up -- he has a sling that goes around his neck -- usually he wears a medieval sock cap though.

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## GKWilson

Rushad is a nice guy. You can find him with his Cello strapped over his shoulder wandering through Wintergrass talking
and jamming with everyone. Then several bands will have him join in on their sets.

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## GKWilson

More Cello fun.
Mando content: Darol on Octave, Sharon Gilchrist on Bass.
There are at least a dozen Furies. You never know who you'll
see. But, they're always a great show.

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## GKWilson

And finally.
I guess what I'm trying to say is if and when I get a Mandocello I would be
watching these three [Ru, Mila, and Nat] for ideas and inspiration.
Right now I'd like to play Octave like Sarah.
Here's Ole Smitty on Cello.

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## Mandomonte

Saw Rushed a few years ago at Grey Fox. He was in the Jam tent with another cellist, a mandolin player and Mike Bibb, on bass. Blew me away. One cello bowed, one plucked. Rhythms, sounds I had never heard Things I had never imagined. I love that throaty sound. Then later on the Midway, saw an Eastman mandocello in the Eastman tent. Took me several years, but ,I finally got one three months ago. Have Bradley let a day go by without spending several hours on it. Left it in a shop for a few tweaks today and am in deep withdrawal. Not very many places where I jam with and still need lots of work on my playing, but.....?

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## Mandomonte

Saw Rushed a few years ago at Grey Fox. He was in the Jam tent with another cellist, a mandolin player and Mike Bubb, on bass. Blew me away. One cello bowed, one plucked. Rhythms, sounds I had never heard Things I had never imagined. I love that throaty sound. Then later on the Midway, saw an Eastman mandocello in the Eastman tent. Took me several years, but ,I finally got one three months ago. Have Bradley let a day go by without spending several hours on it. Left it in a shop for a few tweaks today and am in deep withdrawal. Not very many places where I jam with and still need lots of work on my playing, but.....?

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## Bernie Daniel

> And finally.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is if and when I get a Mandocello I would be
> watching these three [Ru, Mila, and Nat] for ideas and inspiration.
> Right now I'd like to play Octave like Sarah.
> Here's Ole Smitty on Cello.


Good thoughts. One thing though in playing a mandocello like a cello, you run into the same problems that you have trying to play a mandolin like a fiddle.  There are a lot of things you can do when the duration and volume of the sustain is totally under your control with the bow.  

That last video was a good thought provoking piece because he played cello mostly pizzicato style.  
The Gawler Sisters from Maine use a cello a lot too.  I've seen them several times and always paid special attention to the cello work but most of it would be tricky to do with the mandocello IMO -- you'd have to find a different way to accomplish it perhaps?

Here is one example of the Gawlers.  (fast forward a minute if you do not want to hear talk as they often talk a minute or so between numbers)

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## Patrick Melly

Natalie Haas is an inspiring  cello player, IMHO, here with her sister Brittany:




Here with her frequent partner, Alasdair Fraser:

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## NotMelloCello

I guess all the mandocello guys left because the cello guys took over.

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## Charlieshafer

Ha! You might think so, but looking to alternative cello players fuels the imagination for the mandocello. As everyone is very aware, there's not much written at all for the mandocello, save for a few obscure arrangements for mandolin orchestra. So, for the mandocello, and only the mandocello, you'd better have a great imagination to work out your own parts and arrangements! Zouk and octave players have it luckier that way, they're a common instrument comparatively.

I routinely run workshops where the cello players are the leaders, as it forces everyone to step up their game, even the fiddlers. You can't just learn a few tunes or a snappy little technique, you have to think how everything fits in. Our cellist workshop leaders have been guys like Rushad (both general and youth symphony workshops, a few times), electric cellist Dana Leong (Grammy-winner, also does a few Hyundai commercial soundtracks), Natalie Haas, above (Britt stops by all the time, too, as she's in Boston now), Mike Block, and a few others. If you're in  Connecticut this fall, you can sit down with Ben Sollee for a couple of hours before his show. 

Cello rocks, and if you follow those guys, all of a sudden the mandocello takes on a lot of potential. 

http://fireinthekitchen.org
http://thefretlessfringes.com

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GKWilson, 

Patrick Melly

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## GKWilson

Sorry I wasn't trying to chase off the mandocello guy's.
Phil had asked how or what he could play on his.
I tried to show three very talented cellists playing runs, fills and solo's.
Using different finger styles. No bows. Like Charlie says, we can learn
a lot from these cousins of the bow.
Gary

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## Bernie Daniel

> Sorry I wasn't trying to chase off the mandocello guy's.
> Phil had asked how or what he could play on his.
> I tried to show three very talented cellists playing runs, fills and solo's.
> Using different finger styles. No bows. Like Charlie says, we can learn
> a lot from these cousins of the bow.
> Gary


It would be wonderful if one Mike Marshall would happen to weight in on this string.......... :Smile:

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## Beanzy

I have to agree that coming from a cello playing perspective really opens up your mind as to what is possible.
I started with my m/cello playing by working through my old cello tutor books and stuff like "100 Cello Solos" "The Cellist's Collection" and "Naughty Bits" for cello. It's a kind of quick and fast way to work though a whole load of styles and begin to find where the instrument may fit in best.

Working up fingerings is way easier if you come at it as a cellist rather than as a mandolinist, you gain great fluidity with the left hand by using cello aproach. However the mandoloncello is a different beast to control, with a real need to develop subtlety in your right hand damping techniques. It's quite easy just to wash-out a beautiful phrase if you don't get to grips with sustain and silently damping. Also quiet fretting of the double courses with heavy or round-wound strings is a real job of work to get on top of. I'm still really working on this, using the 3rd finget to support the little finger more than I would need on cello.

One of the big plusses of the mandoloncello I've liked is the rythmic and percussive pulse you can get to a line. That in turn has made me try to get more of this in my violoncello playing.

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## Bernie Daniel

> I have to agree that coming from a cello playing perspective really opens up your mind as to what is possible.
> I started with my m/cello playing by working through my old cello tutor books and stuff like "100 Cello Solos" "The Cellist's Collection" and "Naughty Bits" for cello. It's a kind of quick and fast way to work though a whole load of styles and begin to find where the instrument may fit in best.
> 
> Working up fingerings is way easier if you come at it as a cellist rather than as a mandolinist, you gain great fluidity with the left hand by using cello approach. However the mandoloncello is a different beast to control, with a real need to develop subtlety in your right hand damping techniques. It's quite easy just to wash-out a beautiful phrase if you don't get to grips with sustain and silently damping. Also quiet fretting of the double courses with heavy or round-wound strings is a real job of work to get on top of. I'm still really working on this, using the 3rd finget to support the little finger more than I would need on cello.
> 
> One of the big plusses of the mandoloncello I've liked is the rythmic and percussive pulse you can get to a line. That in turn has made me try to get more of this in my violoncello playing.


Interesting perspectives for sure!  I was wondering what kind of music you are playing on the mandocello and if you might have any of your efforts captured in audio or (even better) accessible video formats?

You mentioned sustain but in the opposite way than I think of "sustain issues" with the mandocello versus cello comparison! 

My thinking is rudimentary here to be sure, but I tend to think of the comparison between cello and mandocello in a manner like that of violin versus mandolin.  In the violin family instruments it sees to me the sustain or the length of the sound pulse is almost totally under the control of the bow?  That is on a cello you can sustain a note as long as you move the bow?  

But on a mandocello, with a pick you can create a sound pulse, but it soon decays, and to sustain the note you have to strike again in the extreme do something like a tremolo?

But I can see what you are saying about the other side of it too.  I'm not sure this is exactly correct but it seems to me that a cello has almost no sustain and the sound stops almost the instant you stop moving the bow?  So I see your point about needing to actually damp the mandocello too.

If you think about it the sound production in two instruments is so different that I suppose you could ask is trying to use one in the place of the other even reasonable to think about?  LOL  :Smile:

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## Beanzy

That's what I've found Bernie. On the cello I get to control how long, as well as the point(s) of decay and speed that it happens, or I can swell it mid decline. On the mandoloncello I so far I've been working on just getting a smooth decline, rolling the pad of my hand over the bridge which avoids rattle that I get when damping further up the strings. The other thing I need it to develop something like the piano damper pedal for longer passages or it just gets too boomy and becomes a bit of a wash, a great effect if that's needed, but horrible and muddy if you want clarity.

I'm playing an Oakwood which has a slight induced curve but had masses of sustain. 
I think I'd actually prefer less from a control point of view.

Vivaldi and baroque cello lines seem to be really fun as they really appreciated plenty of movement in their bass lines. We can get stuck with some pretty basic parts especially as you head into the Romantic era. Having said that I reckon Mendelssohn is excellent Mandoloncello fodder. I'd love to tackle his Octet with a plucked string ensemble. But for me the piano repertoire is the biggest revelation as the left hand lines can be  a really great work-out but they allow for that plucked decay but also the mandoloncello type sustain.

As for recordings, I have that as one of my new year resolutions..... only we are in July already  :Frown:  My problem is it's a bit too similar to my normal job so I keep putting off setting up a YT channel and anyway I'm more focussed on getting to a decent level first. I must do some, but don't expect anything more than a workmanlike amateur performance  or you'd be disappointed.  :Chicken: 

While I'm on for anyone wanting a more modern approach to cello you could see what comes of checking out the New Directions website https://newdirectionscello.org/  and there are loads of clips get posted on their Facebook page. I find some people's approaches really inspiring.

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## Phil Vinyard

I took the advice of several of you (that's why I LOVE the 'Cafe...) and brought my mandocello to my monthly old-time jam/square dance last night. I used a more flexible pic and that helped a lot. I mostly figured out a handful of chords with lots of open strings and wailed away on the thing. It was a lot of fun! Felt like it filled in the sound of the band, had a nice sound that was different than the guitars. Played melody here and there, but mostly played lots of chords. 

Definitely going to break it out a lot earlier in the evening next time.

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## Mandobart

So there is a trend here on "what can I play on the mandocello?"  I say, "what can't I play on the mandocello?"  Here are a few ideas using chords, melodies, etc.

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Bernie Daniel

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## Bernie Daniel

Well I don't play as well as you do but I so far have tried similar things on the mandocello....

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Mandobart

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## NotMelloCello

Still looking for inspiration here... 

There aren't a half-dozen videos on YouTube of mandocello music I want to learn. Don't give a hoot about Bach. Folk (in all its many varieties) and bluegrass leave me cold. Cart that baroque/renaissance stuff away. I could tolerate some classic country or gospel, but pop tunes, jazz and rock are where my heart lies.

Guess I'm breaking out and establishing a new trend once I get my basics down. Give me the future...

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## Beanzy

http://www.mauropalmas.com/ 

Just stumbled on that guy this morning which got me thinking how anglo-centric we are on here calling it "Mandocello"; So thought I'd pop in a reminder when you search to include "Mandoloncello" and "Liuto Cantabile"

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## Bernie Daniel

> http://www.mauropalmas.com/ 
> 
> Just stumbled on that guy this morning which got me thinking how anglo-centric we are on here calling it "Mandocello"; So thought I'd pop in a reminder when you search to include "Mandoloncello" and "Liuto Cantabile"


Here is one of his videos -- great stuff!

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## Eddie Sheehy

I find that chording on an MC isn't so good since I like my C's to be .074 gauge and the heavy strings muddy chords.  I guess those of you with Octave string pairs or lighter gauge C strings don't have that problem  Just about anything I play on an MC except Classical and Blues, sounds better on an OM.  Anyway, just for OP, I created a few vids of Rock, Blues, Pop, Jazz, and a Lullaby...  there ain't nuthin that you can't play on an MC, just some tunes that are better played on something else - the lullaby was written for the bagpipes... Any buzzing or strange sounds are me, not the MC...something about a camera erasing my mind...

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Bernie Daniel, 

Charlieshafer

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## Charlieshafer

As far as heavy strings go, about a year ago I switched to the Thomastik Infelds. Crazy expensive, but so easy to play and great tone. I didn't like them on my mandolin, too little volume and punch, but on the 'cello, I find a can do a lot more with chords and slides than before. I can also play a little faster, so I can keep up with the turtle down the street now..

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## Eddie Sheehy

I've used Thomastiks on my old K2.  I really liked them, but as you say crazy expensive.  I have a set of Dogal Calaces that I'm going to try, and possibly a mix and match set of D'Addario Chrome Flatwounds.

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## Bernie Daniel

> As far as heavy strings go, about a year ago I switched to the Thomastik Infelds. Crazy expensive, but so easy to play and great tone. I didn't like them on my mandolin, too little volume and punch, but on the 'cello, I find a can do a lot more with chords and slides than before. I can also play a little faster, so I can keep up with the turtle down the street now..


What have you observed about their longevity compared to D'Addario for example?  Do we know what is different about TI versus D'Addario?  Metals used?  wire type?  winding?

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## Charlieshafer

Honestly, I don't really care about the metals, and don't pay much attention to any of that. They sound good or they don't. These sound superb and have a great soft feel in the fingertips. Longevity is fine. D'Addario's may last a little longer, but again, I don't pay too much attention to that, either. The problem is one of brightness, and that usually fades a little faster than you're aware of, just because you're playing them over time as they're decaying, so little subtle changes get lost. I'm not addicted to having the freshest strings possible, and as we play outside a lot, I'm sure humidity has an adverse affect on the strings, so I should be changing more frequently, I'm sure, but again, it's not an obsession.

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## Barry Wilson

> Still looking for inspiration here... 
> 
> There aren't a half-dozen videos on YouTube of mandocello music I want to learn. Don't give a hoot about Bach. Folk (in all its many varieties) and bluegrass leave me cold. Cart that baroque/renaissance stuff away. I could tolerate some classic country or gospel, but pop tunes, jazz and rock are where my heart lies.
> 
> Guess I'm breaking out and establishing a new trend once I get my basics down. Give me the future...


I don't play anything standard... I am a rock/pop folk, country/rock kinda guy for the most part. First 2 songs I figured out on mine were rush and ozzy LOL... mind you I toss tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree into my first set, among other wierd tunes so...

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## Holger

Hi folks, 

here is a Gibson Mandocello, K-4 (1924) for sale!

www.vintage-instruments.com

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## Eddie Sheehy

> Hi folks, 
> 
> here is a Gibson Mandocello, K-4 (1924) for sale!
> 
> www.vintage-instruments.com


They're closed for the Summer... probably just as well, it'll take me a few years to come up with $11K...

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## Claudia Amslinger

Seen any other Gibson MC for sale?

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## Mandomonte

I recently changed my Mc strings to one I got from Emando that were listed as Eastmans. The C string was heavier and I feel my chords are muddied and it often sounds out of tune. The old set (whatever they were) sounded better with open chords, but needed returning ever time I used  a CAPO. I have a tune , that I wrote (posted) that started with open c-g-d in which the c does not sound as nice with the heavier strings.

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## Mandomonte

Nice to see all the recent post recently. Thanks to all. Sad to hear Tim sold the collection. I looked for other videos of his but  seems like they are mostly guitar and mandolin.

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