# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Vivitone Mandolin Registry

## Benjamin T

This is the beginning of what will likely be a short Registry of Vivitone Mandolins.
Mandolin #338

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## Benjamin T

#39 Electric Mandola from University of South Dakota

http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/ElectricInst...arMandola.html

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## bmac

Those are nifty instruments!!!

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## Bertram Henze

Whhhh???  :Disbelief: 

Scotty, you better take another look into these transporter issues before beaming again.
F-holes in the back, tailpiece halfway up the top - can we have a pickguard on the headstock, please?

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Paul Statman

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## Bill Snyder

Those are Mr. Lloyd Loar's creations.

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## Jim Garber

Benjamin: 

Here are a few I found online -- these should keep you busy.

*Vivi-Tone Electric Tenor Guitar , c. 1933* - RetroFret

*Vivi-Tone Electric Lute-Body Tenor Guitar , c. 1933* - RetroFret

*Vivitone Mandolin* (from Lowell Levinger's museum pages)

*Group Shot* from Lowell -- Impressive!!

*ViviTone Guitar* from Folkway Music museum page

*Vivitone Acoustic Guitar* at Spruce Tree Music

Check out this guy playing a tenor guitar:

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## Benjamin T

Thank you, Jim. The first one I played was the electric lute at retrofret, then I played a guitar in a guitar shop on Woodward Ave. in Berkley, Michigan. I look forward to keeping you all in the loop on some more of my research.

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## Jim Garber

I just realized that this is the Vivitone *mandolin* registry. So, no guitars, keyboards or stringed instruments?

*Siminoff info* - scroll down for ViViTone.

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## jaycat

> Check out this guy playing a tenor guitar:


Sounds like rubber bands on a cigar box.

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## Jim Garber

> Sounds like rubber bands on a cigar box.


You do realize that this is one of the earliest electric instruments, pre-dating Gibson by a few years.

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## jaycat

> You do realize that this is one of the earliest electric instruments, pre-dating Gibson by a few years.


No, I had no idea. Thank God for Les Paul.

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## David Houchens

I like the tail piece on #338. Looks more suited to a banjo though.

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## Bernie Daniel

> No, I had no idea. Thank God for Les Paul.


I wonder if that wood bar on the back that runs in the longitudinal plane of the instrument is for structure or is actually the world's first hummbucker!   

Whatever dismissive comments can made about Loyd Loar's idiosyncrasies no one can deny that he was not a brilliant, imaginative, and insightful man.  

I well expect that Les Paul, who also a brilliant man and also "ahead of his time", knew and learned from the earlier work of Loyd Loar.  

Every long journey to a prize starts with a single step -- but to even start each journey someone has to have the imagination and, yes the clairvoyance, that allows them to take that first step.

I think the efforts of pioneering geniuses should be lauded not derided - but that is just me.

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## Jim Garber

I believe that in this patent he explains some of these electric, structural and acoustic designs.

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## pfox14

There's a lot of debate about who really came out with the first electric instruments. Most give credit to Adolf Rickenbacker for his "frying pan" electric lap steel, some give credit to Loar, but Gibson did introduce their first electric archtop in 1933, which pre-dates their lap steels by a few years. Here's an ad from Metronome for this guitar. Les Paul was certainly an innovator, but did NOT invent the electric guitar, contrary to popular believe.

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## Jim Garber

Paul: I think you are referring to electric stringed instruments. There were *electrified keyboards and synthesizers* back even in the 19th century.

BTW has anyone actually seen the guitar and amp in that ad? Does it exist or was it just an artist's rendition.

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## Bertram Henze

> I believe that in this patent he explains some of these electric, structural and acoustic designs.


This seems to be the missing link between the virzi and the piezo pickup.

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## Jim Garber

This one by LL has something similar to a Virzi. Also attached is the actual Virzi patent.

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## goaty76

> Les Paul was certainly an innovator, but did NOT invent the electric guitar, contrary to popular believe.


I think what most people credit Les Paul with is aiding in the invention of the *Solidbody* electric guitar.  

Phil

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## pfox14

> BTW has anyone actually seen the guitar and amp in that ad? Does it exist or was it just an artist's rendition.


I believe a Gibson L-4 with a crude pickup surfaced at one time.

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## Benjamin T

> I just realized that this is the Vivitone *mandolin* registry. So, no guitars, keyboards or stringed instruments?
> 
> *Siminoff info* - scroll down for ViViTone.


I am interested in all the instruments created under the Vivitone name. I just thought I'd keep it "mandocentric" in this preliminary stage. Let's open it up!

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## Benjamin T

Jim's post #6 is Vivitone #31 , 1933, Electrified Tenor Guitar. 

On a side note, I went looking for 6321 Gratiot, Detroit, MI today and found an empty lot where the Vivitone Corporate Headquarters were. Any one have a metal detector?

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## Benjamin T

From Jim's post #6. Acoustic Guitar. "small body (13" lower bout), spruce top with TWO small soundholes beneath bridge, carved spruce back with f holes, back set 1/2" into sides, 3 piece mahogany neck, bound ebony freboard. Two repaired back cracks, no top cracks, some cosmetic repairs to back of peghead, peghead overlay replaced, tailpiece is WW II era replacement, old refret."

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## Benjamin T

I found this in another thread,http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...on-a-bowl-back, but here is one of the other ViViTone partners, Lewis A. Williams.

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## Benjamin T

Attachment 109192

Acoustic Guitar #47
http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2180/lots/14

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## Benjamin T

Attachment 109194 
Acoustic Guitar #?
http://reverb.com/item/949-vivitone-...-reduced-price

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## Benjamin T

Acoustic Guitar #444
No image, but here is some information accompanying the instrument from the owner.

"On or before the 7th. day of Jan. 1936. This Acousti-Guitar #444 if kept in good condition
may be exchanged at full prevailing price at time of exchange on a Acousti Lectric guitar
for either acoustic or lectric playing selling for not that $99.00 retail."
ViVi Tone Company Kalamazoo, Michigan"

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## Benjamin T

Mandocello #9

http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/ElectricInst...andocello.html

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## Benjamin T

ViViTone Registry to date:
#3 Electric Guitar
#4 Clavier- USD Museum (images)
#9 Mandocello- USD Museum (images)
#39 Electric Mandola- USD Museum (images)
#47 Acoustic Guitar- Skinner (images)
#57 Electric Violin- USD (images)
#67 Acoustic Guitar
#93 Acoustic Electric Guitar- Retro fret (images)
#300 Electric Guitar- USD Museum (images)
#338 Acoustic Mandolin- Intermountain and personal (images)
#383 Acoustic Guitar- Players Vintage Instruments (images)
#444 Acoustic Guitar
#484 Acoustic Guitar- Chicago Music Exchange #580 2014 (images)
#485 Acoustic Guitar- Elderly Instruments (images)
#491 Acoustic/ Electric Guitar- Folkway Music (images)
#508- Acoustic Guitar- Elderly Instruments (images)
#511 Acoustic Guitar- Ebay (images)
#623 Electric Guitar- USD (images)
#625- Acoustic Guitar- Spruce Tree/ Fretboard Journal (images)

six instruments with no serial number information

Please note Serial #67 was stolen years ago: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho....php?t=1217627

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## Benjamin T

I received an email from Lowell Levinger stating that his two Mandolins at Player Vintage Instruments do not have serial numbers.

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## Benjamin T

A new addition to the registry: Acoustic Guitar #564 with images from dealer on Ebay. Note the image of the Label:"On or before 30th day of Nov 1936 this Acousti-Guitar No 564 if kept in good condition, may be exchanged at full prevailing price at the time of exchange on the Acousti-Lectric Guitar for either acoustic or electric playing selling for not less than $99.00 retail. VIVI-TONE COMPANY- Kalamazoo, Michigan

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## Timbofood

Nice detective work, Ben! I am happy to see more of the ideas Mr. Loar put forth so far ahead of his time. What would he think of what we have at our fingertips now!?

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Benjamin T

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## Benjamin T

I noticed after my most recent post something interesting regarding the exchange of the acoustic version for an electric version: On or before the 7th. day of Jan. 1936 vs. On or before 30th day of Nov 1936. What could this mean... a year after purchase perhaps? 
I have not seen this or heard about this exchange for mandolins, but there is this electric/acoustic mandolin from Grandpa Banana.http://www.vintageinstruments.com/mu...dofulpage.html

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## mrmando

There was a ViViTone electric tenor guitar on eBay some years back. Wish I knew what happened to it.

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Benjamin T

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## Benjamin T

> A new addition to the registry: Acoustic Guitar #564 with images from dealer on Ebay. Note the image of the Label:"On or before 30th day of Nov 1936 this Acousti-Guitar No 564 if kept in good condition, may be exchanged at full prevailing price at the time of exchange on the Acousti-Lectric Guitar for either acoustic or electric playing selling for not less than $99.00 retail. VIVI-TONE COMPANY- Kalamazoo, Michigan


As it turns out, I just received Guitar #564. I was examining the guitar and found that the instrument has "fairy frets" and the bridge (made in two part) has a compensated wooden on one side of the upper half and a steel notched saddle on the other. What are your thoughts on this option? Could it be for setting up the guitar as a lap steel, hawaiian guitar, or dobro. When talking with a woman who used to play on the radio in Michigan in the 30s, she mentioned the Hawaiian craze and how she was under the same spell.

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## Benjamin T

A new addition to the registry: Acoustic Guitar #663 with images from dealer, Huber Breese on Reverb. This instrument has a Grover tailpiece, a different logo design on the headstock, and a two sound holes that would be beneath the bridge (an interesting variation.)

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## Benjamin T

#625 and #663 both have the Two sound hole feature on their tops.

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## Timbofood

This is an interesting thread to say the least!

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## Charlieshafer

And this just showed up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332137715019?ul_noapp=true

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Benjamin T

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## Benjamin T

Here is the instrument Charlieshafer mentioned above- #283-"Rare Vintage 1935 Lloyd Loar Vivitone Acoustic Guitar! w/ HSC"

This guitar has "chrome" hardware. The two piece bridge is simliar to design seen on Gibson L-5s from the early 20s.

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## travellerbytrade

> A new addition to the registry: Acoustic Guitar #564 with images from dealer on Ebay. Note the image of the Label:"On or before 30th day of Nov 1936 this Acousti-Guitar No 564 if kept in good condition, may be exchanged at full prevailing price at the time of exchange on the Acousti-Lectric Guitar for either acoustic or electric playing selling for not less than $99.00 retail. VIVI-TONE COMPANY- Kalamazoo, Michigan


I don't know what this might mean to this thread, I'll let you collectors and builders tell me. I think what they are offering is the exchange of this Vivi-Tone brand acoustic guitar for an Acousti-Lectric brand guitar (either acoustic or electric model). Vivi-Tone acquired and absorbed the Acousti-Lectric Company of Detroit in January 1934 and then moved the Vivi-Tone company to Detroit in 1935. So this label was probably printed after Jan. 1934, but before Vivi-tone moved their operations to Detroit in mid to late 1935.

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Benjamin T

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## travellerbytrade

For what it's worth, I just found a Kalamazoo newspaper article dated February 21, 1936 entitled "Vivi-Tone plant moves to Detroit." It appears they moved their operations at the beginning of 1936.

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Benjamin T

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## Benjamin T

> For what it's worth, I just found a Kalamazoo newspaper article dated February 21, 1936 entitled "Vivi-Tone plant moves to Detroit." It appears they moved their operations at the beginning of 1936.


travellerbytrade is that a hard copy that you found or an online source? Is an image available?

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## travellerbytrade

> travellerbytrade is that a hard copy that you found or an online source? Is an image available?


It's from the online index of the Gazette at the Kalamazoo Public Library here http://kzpl.ent.sirsi.net/client/en_US/KPL/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fSD_ILS$002f0$002fSD_ILS:393511/one?qu=vivitone+detroit&lm=LOCAL_INDX

Dang, that's quite a link. On the KPL website, click "catalog" then choose "local indexes" with search terms "vivitone + Detroit." This edition of the Gazette is on microfilm at the library. They have copy services.

Maybe I can get down there this week and make a copy for you. They also have a biography-type file on Vivitone, but I've seen it. It's quite thin and there isn't anything earth shattering in it.

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## Benjamin T

#312 Acoustic Guitar, Japan

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## Neidhardt

Hi,
here is my contribution to the registry :
1935 Vivitone guitar
France 
The pickup and the tailpiece were lacking, I rebuilt them.
The tailpiece were cut in an old pressure cooker.
No serial number, neither label.













Best regards

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Benjamin T

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## Benjamin T

Neidhardt, Incredible!!! Beautiful work! Is that a painted white stripe down the back of the neck? What was the issue with the back? Loose braces? What type of music do you enjoy playing on it?

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## Neidhardt

> Neidhardt, Incredible!!! Beautiful work! Is that a painted white stripe down the back of the neck? What was the issue with the back? Loose braces? What type of music do you enjoy playing on it?


Thank you for your comment. The white stripe is an inlay, in the same material as the headstock veneer, a kind of ivoroid. The neck shape is quite big, not easy to play. I fixed and glued the braces on the back. This guitar sounds great in open tuning for slide playing, but I'm not specialized in this music (I most play acoustic and electric jazz, from swing to bop). But friends of mine like to play it with fingerpicking style.

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## Neidhardt

Benjamin, have you any idea how many guitars were built (vivitone & acousti-lectric) ?

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## Benjamin T

> Benjamin, have you any idea how many guitars were built (vivitone & acousti-lectric) ?


The registry contains instruments with numerical designations from #3 to #663.
27 instruments are registered with serial numbers

31 instruments are in the registry
22 guitars (Electric and Acoustic)
1 Clavier
1 Mandocello
1 Tenor Guitar
1 Electric Mandola
2 Electric Violin
3 Mandolin

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## Timbofood

Benjamin, this is so cool. The group of people here and the widespread generosity in knowledge sharing is so refreshing.
Nice work on the registry!

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Benjamin T

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## Neidhardt

> Benjamin, this is so cool. The group of people here and the widespread generosity in knowledge sharing is so refreshing.
> Nice work on the registry!


Nice work indeed ! I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm proud to bring my contribution.

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Benjamin T

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## Neidhardt

The guitar is now presented in the folk music museum of Montluçon (France) MuPop.

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## 1894Orville

This is great work. Wondering where the link to the pictures are and is there a description of #3 Electric guitar?

Thanks
Lynn

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## Benjamin T

@1894Orville- here is what I have regarding #3 (I've removed a couple of names for anonymity sake) Spanish/Hawaiian/Acoustic/Electric guitar for a while. It's a 1933, maybe the third (the pickup assembly has a hand written in pencil "3" on it) of the ViviTone guitars. I got it from a CC to whom it was given by the estimable Mr. Loar in 1933. CC put an RCA jack in it, and the inventor of the Gibson humbucking pickup, gave me a couple of early 1930s 1/4" jacks as probably appropriate restoration bits and pieces.

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## church mouse

I just found this one hanging on a laundry room wall. It's been there for the last 50 years. Other than a couple small cracks in the headstock under the machine head screws and a crack in the pick guard at the mounting screw, it was in great condition. A new set of strings and it played like a dream. Could not believe that the body didn't warp or crack. It is serial number 549.

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Benjamin T, 

Timbofood

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## Benjamin T

Church Mouse that is awesome. Binding front and back! Found in a laundry room?!?!?!

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## Jim Garber

“Laundry room wall”? More details for this story?

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## church mouse

> Laundry room wall? More details for this story?


It belonged to my mother-in-law. She played the mandolin, banjo and the Hawaiian guitar
and in the early 1940's she won many music awards at various events. I dated her daughter all through high school and married her daughter in 1966. I knew that my mother-in-law played these instruments but never paid much attention to this Vivi Tone hanging on the wall. Her "good" mandolin was always in it's case so I just assumed that the wall hanger was not much more than that, a wall hanger. At the age of 93, she passed away last week, as did my wife of 52 1/2 years. They both died within 3 weeks of each other. In cleaning out the mother-in-laws house, the family never gave that old wall hanger a second glance. They were too focused on the "good" mandolin and other musical instruments. They knew that I played guitar and was asked if I would like to have that old wall hanger. I told them I would be thrilled to have something of hers, even if it was old and possibly junk. As it turned out, I guess I ended up with the better part of the deal.

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## Jim Garber

I am so sorry for your multiple losses. I am sure that many of the folks here (myself included) would be very interested in other aspects of your MIL’s musical history. What kind of music did she play on mandolin? And what was her main playing mandolin?

This is also just another example the ViVitone instruments were not very well known or successful as mainstream mandolins.

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## Benjamin T

I, too am sorry for your losses. It would be interesting to hear more about your mother in law. In case you missed it, it looks like a few ViViTone guitars were built with reversible top saddles on the bridge for a "Spanish" set up. I've always wondered about the Hawaiian music craze here in the first half of the 20th century and the influence of slack key on bluegrass dobro. Lastly, after taking a look at the images of #549, it looks like it was pretty heavily played due to wear on the neck, bass side near the cloud tailpiece, and spruce back. Coooooool!

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## church mouse

> I am so sorry for your multiple losses. I am sure that many of the folks here (myself included) would be very interested in other aspects of your MILs musical history. What kind of music did she play on mandolin? And what was her main playing mandolin?
> 
> This is also just another example the ViVitone instruments were not very well known or successful as mainstream mandolins.


Thanks Jim, The only song that I can remember off hand that she played was Under the Double Eagle, so I guess it would be safe to assume that her style would be blue grass or country. I believe that her main mandolin was a Gibson F4 style. Her Hawaiian guitar was a Gibson EH-150 Lap Steel Electric. Her banjo was a Gibson TB-11 Tenor - 1935.

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## church mouse

> I, too am sorry for your losses. It would be interesting to hear more about your mother in law. In case you missed it, it looks like a few ViViTone guitars were built with reversible top saddles on the bridge for a "Spanish" set up. I've always wondered about the Hawaiian music craze here in the first half of the 20th century and the influence of slack key on bluegrass dobro. Lastly, after taking a look at the images of #549, it looks like it was pretty heavily played due to wear on the neck, bass side near the cloud tailpiece, and spruce back. Coooooool!


Thanks Benjamin, The MIL won several awards in her early years. The pictures posted here are the only items that I could find that showed her awards. Both came from The American Guild of Banjoists, Mandolinists and Guitarists. The blue ribbon was given at the 39th Annual Convention in Cincinnati, Ohio June 30 - July 3, 1940. She was born April 6, 1926 so that would make her only 14 years old when winning the blue ribbon. The red ribbon was for 2nd place for the same guild of AG&B that took place in 1938 and it was for solo contest on the Hawaiian guitar. She would have only been 12 years old then. Not sure how long that she competed after that time. I would guess that she played that Vivi Tone when she won those awards.  I can remember her playing her instruments at the Nazarene church where she was a member of. I'm not a mandolin player, I play guitar in my church's praise team. But we do have mandolins and violins in our group, so maybe this will become a quest for me to learn something new.

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## Timbofood

Sorry she has gone to the larger life. Boy, it sounds like she had a pretty interesting musical life before that! Very interesting collection of instruments to say the least. 
Have any of the rest of her instruments stayed in the family?
What a fascinating story, heading out the door right now,but will re read all of this last addition when I get home!

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## church mouse

> Sorry she has gone to the larger life. Boy, it sounds like she had a pretty interesting musical life before that! Very interesting collection of instruments to say the least. 
> Have any of the rest of her instruments stayed in the family?
> What a fascinating story, heading out the door right now,but will re read all of this last addition when I get home!


Thanks Timbofood,  All of the remaining instruments went to my MIL's youngest daughter, my sister in law, who only wanted them to sell and get the money out of them. She didn't play any instruments, in fact, I'm pretty sure that she couldn't even play the radio.  I'm sure they are gone by now. I was fortunate to have received the Vivi Tone. And I think the only reason was that nobody gave that old ratty looking wall hanger a second look was because they all thought it was junk. So it was decided that if I wanted it, then take it because they didn't want to deal with that old piece of junk. It was almost like they were doing me a favor by throwing me a bone while they all were feasting on the rest of the spoils. I am excited to get it on several levels, one being it was my MIL's and second, I want to learn how to play it. I've played guitar most of my life so I'm hoping that the transition won't be that bad. I did try the 5 string banjo but was struggling with the fact that the top string wasn't the bass string. It messed with my mind. I think if I would have stayed with it I probably would have over come the issues I was having but unfortunately, the banjo I was using was borrowed and the owner wanted it back and I didn't think that I was doing well enough to invest into one of my own. But now,,,, I have my own mandolin that has some history and I'm looking forward to learning it. Our praise team leader at my church where I play guitar, plays the mandolin, violin, cello and harmonica, he looked the Vivi Tone over and told me if I ever wanted to sell it, he would like to buy it. The repair shop that worked on it says in their humble opinion, it would be worth somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500.

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## grassrootphilosopher

> Thanks Timbofood,  All of the remaining instruments went to my MIL's youngest daughter, my sister in law, who only wanted them to sell and get the money out of them. She didn't play any instruments, in fact, I'm pretty sure that she couldn't even play the radio.  I'm sure they are gone by now. I was fortunate to have received the Vivi Tone. And I think the only reason was that nobody gave that old ratty looking wall hanger a second look was because they all thought it was junk. So it was decided that if I wanted it, then take it because they didn't want to deal with that old piece of junk. It was almost like they were doing me a favor by throwing me a bone while they all were feasting on the rest of the spoils. I am excited to get it on several levels, one being it was my MIL's and second, I want to learn how to play it. I've played guitar most of my life so I'm hoping that the transition won't be that bad. I did try the 5 string banjo but was struggling with the fact that the top string wasn't the bass string. It messed with my mind. I think if I would have stayed with it I probably would have over come the issues I was having but unfortunately, the banjo I was using was borrowed and the owner wanted it back and I didn't think that I was doing well enough to invest into one of my own. But now,,,, I have my own mandolin that has some history and I'm looking forward to learning it. Our praise team leader at my church where I play guitar, plays the mandolin, violin, cello and harmonica, he looked the Vivi Tone over and told me if I ever wanted to sell it, he would like to buy it. The repair shop that worked on it says in their humble opinion, it would be worth somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500.


Play it im memory of your wife.

May your path be as beautiful as the sound that may come from the instrument that you have received.

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church mouse, 

Timbofood

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## church mouse

Thank you so much for the beautiful words.

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## Timbofood

What you have inherited is most valuable because it’s important to you. Maybe the inheritance isn’t best directed but, of this is yours, treat it as I’m pretty sure you will! 
Hoping for some “Wow, this little pearl is fun to play!”pictures! 
Love it Mouse, it is family.

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church mouse

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## church mouse

Thanks Timbofood. I may not ever be any good at playing it but as long as it gives me pleasure, I'm good with that. It's like my old 1906 Ellington Upright grand piano I rescued. A local church was going to haul it to the dump, so I said I'd take it. Didn't know the first thing about a piano, only that it had black and white keys and was heavier than all get out. But I did know what notes make up a chord on a guitar, so I made up my own chord sheet for piano. And I know that how I play is not how one is suppose to play it, but you know what, it gives me pleasure to sit down and play it my way. I'll be able to get lots of help with the group I play with at church, since we have a couple mandolin players.

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Timbofood

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