# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  I am having Zimmermann Autoharp problems, perhaps you can help?

## ins0mniac

Hi there, I was simply doing some internet research for Zimmermann Autoharps and I came across this forum where someone had posted a question about these Autoharps so I thought perhaps someone may be able to help me. 
I purchased 2 of these at a garage sale for $15 each, I thought they looked very interesting and the price seamed to be reasonable, to me at least. I unfortunately know nothing about these at all but would like to learn. I am hoping someone could look at my pictures and tell me if any parts look missing/broken or damaged? Do you know if these are rare and the possible ages? I realize this is a lot to ask, and I am very sorry if this message is a bother. I do really appreciate any help you may be able to provide. Thank you for your time.
Nicole

The forum only allows for 10 pictures and I have a handful more than that to show so I included the link to the photobucket library of all images.
http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/mo...?sort=3&page=1

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## allenhopkins

The one labeled "The Favorite" is a Style #2 3/4, originally a five-bar, made 1896-99 in Dolgeville NY, which is where the Autoharp Co. relocated after Alfred Dolge bought it from Charles Zimmermann of Philadelphia, the original manufacturer.  The reddish-looking one appears to be a Style #3, originally a four-bar, also from Dolgeville in the late 1890's.

Both of them are in rough shape, missing several chord bars.  The #2 3/4 has a severe case of pin block rotation; the string tension pulls on the block to which the strings are fastened, causing it to rotate and pry the back off.  It can be repaired and re-glued, so it's not fatal.

I couldn't access your Photobucket page, so couldn't look at the other pics.  Yes, the instruments are rare, since not too many of the Dolgeville products have survived over a century.  Unfortunately, in their condition, there not worth a whole lot.  You'd need to get replacement chord bars, which could be difficult, since these instruments haven't been made for a long time.  You have most of the strings; if you do decide to fix them, *save the wound strings,* since no one's making strings with the windings that short to fit the smaller-bodied Autoharps.  The unwound strings can be replaced with modern ones, or just with music wire of the proper gauges.

I've picked up small Zimmermanns, five-bar and eight-bar, for well less than $100.  I use them for historical programs.  So what you have is interesting, not very valuable -- especially in present condition -- and repairable; the repairs, however, would almost certainly cost more than the market value of the Autoharps.

My reference, by the way, is Becky Blackley's _The Autoharp Book,_ (i.a.d. Publications, Brisbane CA, 1983), which remains the "bible" on the subject.

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## EdHanrahan

Just some observations from a "casual dabbler" ...

Compare to more modern (if that term can be applied!) autoharps that can have 15 or 21 chord bars _and_ that can play in maybe four or five major keys plus some minors (not actually looking at one right now), these seem to be a lot more limited.

- The second one has only seven notes (plus octaves), one of them being F#.  With the three chord bars that it appears to have space for, it seems designed to play only in the key of G major, the chords being G, C, and D, or optionally D7.

- "The Favorite" has all the notes of the C scale _plus_ A#.  Considering that A# is also Bb, this should allow it to play in the keys of C major and F major, assuming that four chord bars were set for C, F, G, and Bb.

That's my 2 cents!  Any comment from folks who actually know these things??

PS: I'd loosen the string tension on "The Favorite" before it pulls itself apart any further.  And I _definitely_ would've spent $15 each on them!

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## Jim Garber

I actually have one in pretty good condition in my house right now. It belongs to a friend and I promised to tune it up and check it out for playability. Allen's assessment is accurate and thorough as usual.

There is an *Autoharp Forum* where you may be able to find even more info.

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## allenhopkins

> ...- The second one has only seven notes (plus octaves), one of them being F#.  With the three chord bars that it appears to have space for, it seems designed to play only in the key of G major, the chords being G, C, and D, or optionally D7.


Since I can't access the Photobucket link, I'm limited to the Cafe photos, but Ed's comments are leading me to revise my diagnoses of the displayed instruments.  I think they're both 5-bars, model 2 3/4, from slightly different eras.  The size and spacing of the chord bar holders seems to indicate room for five chord bars.  I also think that the reddish one has a non-original printed note guide, and has been retuned to play in G, by tuning the F notes up to F#.

All of the early Zimmermann (and Dolge) Autoharps were set up to play in the key of C.  The Style #1, with its three bars, would play C, F, G7.  When the fourth and fifth bars were added, they supplied B♭ and C7 chords, enabling playing in the key of F.  The smaller models did *not* have a full chromatic scale; they usually had a C-major scale, with B♭strings added for C7 and B♭chords.  An Autoharpist who wanted to play in the key of G would have to [1] recut one or more of his chord bars, to get a G major (rather than a G7) and a D7 chord, and [2] retune his F strings up to F# to provide a note lacking in the "factory" tuning.




> - "The Favorite" has all the notes of the C scale _plus_ A#.  Considering that A# is also Bb, this should allow it to play in the keys of C major and F major, assuming that four chord bars were set for C, F, G, and Bb.


That's the original tuning and chord set-up.  I have a Philadelphia (pre-Dolge) Style #2 3/4 5-bar, and it's set up that way.




> ..That's my 2 cents!  Any comment from folks who actually know these things??
> 
> PS: I'd loosen the string tension on "The Favorite" before it pulls itself apart any further.  And I _definitely_ would've spent $15 each on them!


Pretty much spot-on analysis, and keen eyes picking up the F-F# substitution.  Definitely take string tension off the one with the "rotated" pin block.  And while "the price was right," I stick to my opinion that repair costs will exceed market value, at least on "The Favorite."  (By the way, the Style #2 3/4 was labeled "The Favorite" starting in 1898, per Ms. Blackley's book.)

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## ins0mniac

Thank you for your wonderful information. I have included more pictures of the other autoharp below.

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## booseyflute

In the years since this post shorter wound strings must have become available because the ancient Zimmerman The Favorite I just bought has a new wound string (second lowest) With a flattened bead end that perfectly fits over the tiny metal peg for the string—see photo. Where to buy a full set of strings for The Favorite with such wound strings?

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## Jim Garber

Do the type A Oscar Schmidt strings work? https://www.elderly.com/collections/...del-string-set




> Oscar Schmidt set of 36 strings with large grommet ends (a 1/4" diameter "ball-end" with large hole in the center). Grommets fit over stringposts (pins) at the end of the harp. 
> - For OS73B & OS73C. Also for autoharps built before 1967.

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## MikeEdgerton

Unfortunately old doesn't always equate to valuable financially.




> The Favorite I just bought has a new wound string (second lowest) With a flattened bead end that perfectly fits over the tiny metal peg for the string


That looks like a guitar string.

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## Jim Garber

> Unfortunately old doesn't always equate to valuable financially.


That is what my wife tells me.  :Smile:

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## allenhopkins

> In the years since this post shorter wound strings must have become available because the ancient Zimmerman The Favorite I just bought has a new wound string (second lowest) With a flattened bead end that perfectly fits over the tiny metal peg for the stringsee photo. Where to buy a full set of strings for The Favorite with such wound strings?[/ATTACH]


You're looking for "Model A" (loop end) strings, and you can buy a full set *here* (for $70, marked down from $112), and individual strings from the same source as needed.  You can also make the unwound strings out of suitable diameter music wire, including guitar, banjo or mandolin strings, crushing ball ends to get loops, or twisting loops into the wire as needed.

Wound strings on original Autoharps (and other zithers) had a winding that only covered part of the string, leaving the portions at either end that went over the top and bottom bridges unwound.  I've replaced wound Autoharp strings with fully wound strings, with the over-the-bridge portions wound, and noticed no sonic difference.

For nearly the past century, Autoharps have been of a pretty standard size.  When you get back into the original Philadelphia and Dolgeville instruments, there were a lot of smaller models, and finding partially wound strings of the right lengths for them would be difficult.  Which is why I still have the original wound strings on my little Model 2 3/4, made in C F Zimmerman's shop in Philly in the 1880's.  Proves that some strings can last 135+ years...

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## Jim Garber

Allen: see my post #8. Great minds run in the same gutter.

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allenhopkins

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