# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  Picks

## vtpicker

Greetings all. I'm a newbie with a pick question. I will be focusing my playing on Celtic and Classical. I have an Oval hole A style mando. I have a wide array of picks and am intrigued by the different sounds they can produce. My question is this. I love the sound I get from rounded edge Dawg style picks, but as a beginner I am finding it much easier to move around the strings with a more traditional shaped pick. I am best off staying with the rounded off pick and allowing my learning to progress with that style pick, or would anyone recommend coming back to that style after I have become more proficient in my playing abilities?
Thanks for any advice!!

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## Tailspin

I like these. Hated them at first but now I love them. 
www.dawgnet.com/dawgpicks.htm

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## dang

Since no one else has commented I will venture to say that it really doesn't matter what you pick with as long as you like it. I mostly like the rounded edges, but I sometimes like a regular point on my picks, usually for a specific tone or for picking clean on a song with a lot of notes.
Try using your guitar style picks and using the back 2 rounded corners. If you want to switch it around, it is not that hard before playing a specific section...experimenting on your own is what will be the best for YOU and YOUR playing.

Anyway WELCOME to the cafe vtpicker!
The best use of the cafe for a newbie would be to learn how to use the search function very well! You can find the answer to almost any question -- just try several combinations of words for searching for what you are interested in. (though pick is a common word in many different types of threads...)
Here is my pick collection

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I had the same problem when I started. I finally figured out that if I bought the Golden Gate Dawg style picks and used my sander to make them about a third thinner. Then I buff them out so they are smooth. That they worked for me. I tried modifying the points and always ended up going back to the rounded corners. I also drill a hole in the middle and bevel that edge down to make them easier for me to hold. In other words, don't feel compelled to stick with stock picks. A block of wood with a piece of double sided carpet tape will hold the pick while you sand it. Experiment.

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## hellindc

I use the Golden Gates. On one of the other threads, someone said they found it easier to do tremelo with thinner, more flexible picks. I've found just the opposite -- but that's probably something else that varies from player to player.

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## alespa

My advice . . . get all the picks you like and don't worry about developing "bad habits" due to the pick size.They are cheap compared to mando's. As long as you hold the pick correctly, I think you will find that by having different shapes and thicknesses (within reason) that you will enjoy the variety of sound, depending on what you are playing. I wondered the same thing you are asking when I first started. The picks I have now are the Dawg (my favorite), Jazz Mando (both shapes) and Claytons. I like them all for different reasons. I would like to try out Golden Gate and Wegens at some point.

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## Eugene

I would wager that most players of "Dawg"-style plectra are looking for chop and a bluegrassy (or at least Dawg-like) tone that comes of relatively heavily strung, f-holed archtops. They are almost entirely unknown amongst classical players. "Dawg"-style plectra just sound plain goofy with my technique on my prefered instruments. I tend to like a traditional "Neapolitan" shape (i.e., like the small teardrops common in the US, but a good bit longer). Even though this was the most popular shape 100 years ago, you can't buy any in that shape in the US. I cut my own and buff and bevel the edges. Try everything you can and stick with whatever you like.

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## AlanN

I found my pick of choice on the ground at the old Delaware bluegrass festival, maybe 9 years ago. Made for one GLAD mandolin picker (and probably made for one SAD mandolin picker!)

Use whatever you like and like whatever you use.

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## glauber

Euugene, you can buy Pettine picks on eBay sometimes. I try different picks from time to time, but i'm stuck on the F1.

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## DryBones

I am using Dunlop Gator Grips 1.14mm now. I didn't like them at first but for now they are my favorites, followed closely by D'Andreas Pro-Plec 1.5mm's.

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## Strange1

Seems everyone but me uses heavy picks. I'll have to get some and try them.  I still use .46mm nylon Dunlops. Same as on the guitar. Gotta a feeling that is why my sound is very peculiar.

Jack

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## judith

Hey - I do not use heavy picks and, depending on the season, (or maybe its just my hearing), I change picks. Right now, I am using the Dava control pick (bought from Elderly). I actually find it a bit slippery, but I really like the sound...I'm going to experiment and sand it a little. Sometimes I use the lightest "Big Stubby" (Dunlop, I believe), and sometimes I use the lightest (for bluegrass) Wegen. As someone said, since picks don't cost as much as mandolins, feel free to experiment. I have SO MANY picks, its ridiculous. And BTW, I play a mix of music - Celtic, Scandanavian, Appalachian. Have fun experimenting!! J

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## SternART

Hey Alan....I lost one at the old Delaware BG festival, it was 8 years ago.....you mighta nabbed my TS pick!!!

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## AlanN

Ok buddy, describe and it's yours!

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## chuck.naill

Anybody use, like, or dislike the horn picks. I got two and after sanding them a bit I smelled like I had been dehorning cattle all day.

chuck

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## glauber

I tried a horn pick once but thought it was too clicky.

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## jim_n_virginia

Personally I think people just get used to whatever they use a lot. I mean if all you ever had was a Dawg pick you would get used to it and it would be your favorite.

I would tell a beginner to try all kinds and just pick (pun intended!) one.

And also I USED to try out all these picks and I kinda find it limiting myself. I mean if you ONLY play Daddy's TS pick he left to you and you can't find it right before playing then it sorta messes you up.

Partly through training and partly due to the fact I can't seem to keep a pick longer than a week I can now just use any ole pick as long as it is heavy.

I do have my favorites but if I don't have one around handy it's no big deal and it doesn't affect my playing or my mind.

Besides I heard that Big Mon used any pick laying around and if HE didn't take much stock in what pick he used thats good enough for me.

The BEST pool shark I ever saw when I lived in New Orleans used to use the old beat up sticks on the wall.

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## glauber

Jim, i think you're on to something. I've tried several picks and liked some of them, just i haven't liked them enough to make me change from what i use.

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## epicentre

Started on slide guitar before playing mandolin, so I like the "Herco" heavy thumb/flat pick. You can hold it like a flat pick, or just flail away as in thumb.

or:

Sometimes use a "Brain" 1.60 heavy flat pick.

I tried drilling the hole thing to stop slippage, but found what really worked was to file off some violin rosin in a fine powder, dampen your finger and thumb and hold on. Sticks like glue but washes off with soap and water. Sooner or later ya gotta clean off the pick. 
 Yuck. But it works. Just don't get any in your mouth. Blah!!

Was that an original idea? Should I have taken out a patent? Too late now.......ah well.

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## runofthemill

I just switched to using a heavier, thick pick like the Dawg picks...you'll get a more traditional sound out of a mandolin with thoses...usually a more powerful chop...I used a normal guitar pick before, it took about a week and then I got used to the Dawg Pick...I am thankful for it too. people have been saying that my tone is better.

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## glauber

> Jim, i think you're on to something. I've tried several picks and liked some of them, just i haven't liked them enough to make me change from what i use.


By the way, this morning i noticed that the playing had worn out the point of my favourite pick to the point  that it lost some of its clarity of sound. So i just took a pair of scissors and cut a new point for it. Polished it on my jeans and its good as new. Works for nylon picks, probably not for some of the harder materials.

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## Perry

If you like DAWG's but want a traditional guitar shaped pick
I think the D'Andrea Pro Plecs 1.5 will fit the ticket

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## vtpicker

Thanks for all the insight folks!! It appears I touched upon a topic near to many a pickers heart. My wife wondered where I was going with that sandpaper in my pocket last night. "Mums the word"

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## Tom C

I switched from rounded to a point. You hear the tone of the string, the crispness so much more. With the thick rounded picks (GoldedGate, Dawg)I hear the brushing of the pick going over the string. For quick tunes, it easier to miss the string with a rounded pick. From an old post for the top 10 reasons why I like a pointed pick...

10)Cleaner tone. 
9)Less plectrum noise
8)Easier to attack string. 
7)Less brushing or missing a string. 
6)Feels like I have a shorter stroke over a string.
5)I can pick just as quick (timed)
4)They are easy to find
3)My rounded ones wore down to a point
2)Gibson says that's the way it should be.
and ...1) I'm Chris Thile

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## glauber

I always wondered what alias Chris was using on the board.

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## Bob DeVellis

I've zeroed in on the Ultex 1mm pick. It glides nicely over the strings when polished (either intentionally or just by use), I hear the string instead of the pick, the tone has the right balance of brightness and "smokiness," the thickness feels comfortable in my hand, with a bit of moisture applied it stays positioned nicely, and the point is just about what I like for sound and playing feel. I suggest that people who haven't yet developed a pick preference develop a list of criteria they like in a pick (either mine or a completely new set) and consider which picks give them the best trade-off. It may or may not be anything like what I prefer. 

I used to get an uncomfortable feeling that there was a perfect pick out there that I hadn't discovered. The Ultex isn't a perfect pick but it feels good and sounds good to me and I've decided not to sweat finding the holy grail. At the same time, if I don't have one, I can use pretty much whatever is at hand and not feel too awkward. Like Eugene, I find the Dawg-style picks the least satisfactory, but then I don't chop chords.

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## Paul Hostetter

Make your own from scratch, or rework other picks. It is not rocket science. It's actually fun. 

Fat picks may be the flavor of the month, but they're not for everyone. Here's my pick page.

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## Randy King

I'm trying genuine tortis, so far I like them, however they are stiff, but I'm adapting. no pick slap![QUOTE]
If it ain't Blurgrass, Is it really music!

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## Wolfmanbob

I still like the old grisman picks the best.

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## Paul Hostetter

Various blocks of plastic can vary a bit, but the "old Grisman" picks (as above) are made by the same people who make the Golden Gate picks, jobbed by Pickboy. Same picks, different stamp. How much ya wanta pay?

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## Wolfmanbob

The one depicted is not even an old "grisman" pick. This is the newer generation. The original ones said "grisman", not "dawg". While they may all have been manufactured by the same company, the original ones feel different. Maybe the material, maybe the finish, I don't really know why. I just know I feel the difference. The cost is not an issue as I've been using the same one for years and I still have a few more in my case. I seldom lose them. I think I have a lifetime supply. At any rate, the tone comes from the player more than the pick.

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## powermanj

More often than not, I use the Golden Gate picks for bluegrass. #I have the "Dawg" picks but, to me anyway, they don't have the same "feel". #I like the heavier jazz-type picks for playing Celtic stuff. :Smile:

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## DryBones

My Favorite Pick! #

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## Jim Broyles

Jason, Is that either a Clayton Ultem or a Dunlop Ultex with FOTW's loggo imprinted?

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## DryBones

naw, its just a cheapo nylon 3 pointer they sent along with my first mando back before I knew better. I got a bunch of them...want to buy a few?

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## Paul Hostetter

RB, if you look a little farther up the page you'll see one of the old ones. I thought I'd made the provenance of the variants pretty clear. 



I got a box of these many years ago, from Saga. David made off with most of them himself, as it was an odd batch in a different color he hadn't seen.

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## Wolfmanbob

Very interesting, Paul. Thanks for the pics. Pick use is very personal and has a lot to do with feel. Sometimes I use a Wrgen pick in a grisman shape that has micro groves and a very nice bevel. It's especially good in the summer when you're perspiring. I was also curious about the "tortis" picks advertised on the net, made of some kind of natural compound. Has anyone used them?

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## skippy

Not to be the guy who plays something just cause Thile plays it... so I tried these Wegen picks cause Thile plays them.

Well, not really. I was using a pick of, say a nebulaous organic nature and liked it a lot, but it kept flying out of my hands. (terrible sweater). At the first symposium, the big thing was Wegen cause that's what Thile played. I didn't go that route cause I hate being the bandwagon type. So instead, I drilled holes in my, um, unamed organic material and it helped.. A LOT! This was fine and dandy until I noticed the edge kept changing. i.e. it wore pretty heaviliy. This ticked me off cause I like a certain point, little bevel, but I want it to stay the same. That's when a master class with Chris jumped into my head. He said he loved the sound of the Wegens, and he didn't have to replace it after every show. (What type of mando monster replaces a pick after every show?) That told me that it would keep it's edge better for an ametuer like myself. So I decided to try it.  

I love it. I got the triangle guitar pic, the 1.2 mm thick one and it's great. The holes help stability and I have had it now over 2 months and there is no noticible wear on it. The Bevel is really nice for both fast picking AND tremelo. 

Lord help me, I just jumped on the bandwagon.

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## siren_20

I will say this about the Wegens... they absolutely force you to have better right-hand technique. I wasn't really big on their sound when I first tried them, but as my technique has improved, they sound better to me for some reason.
And you're right, they do last forever. I'm using the same one going on two years now... lucky I haven't lost it yet!

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## LBMando

I heard that there was a person or company that makes genuine tortoise shell picks out of old lamp shades and other items...Is this an urban legend? How can I find a genuine TS pick w/o killing a tortoise in the present (I know the lampshade guy's picks are dead turles too, but my conscious is a little better with that situation {;-(...

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## cooper4205

i found some awesome picks today but i don't know who makes them. they look like fender picks, but are thick (.96-1.14 maybe)and a synthetic tortise shell. they have a cork ring on the bottom side so they don't move around on ya. does anyone who makes these

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## Hal Loflin

I started out with Golden Gate picks only because the person I was taking lessons from gave me one. I later tried the Dawg picks and liked the size better than the GG. I then bought some of the large tri corner Proplec after reading about them on the Cafe. I loved the sound but did not like the size and sharp corners. So...I laid a Dawg pick on them and marked the size, cut them down and then sanded the edges and they work great. I also did it to a Dunlop tri corner as well.

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## dang

Hey smyrnagc, I do the same thing with my dunlop tricorners (here, 1/2 way down on the 2nd page)but had not thought of shaping the proplec....maybe that will get me to use them more!

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## Michael H Geimer

I have one of the 'old' David Grisman picks. It is not pictured anywhere above. I bought it new back around '92.

It is a golden, swirly brown rounded triangle similiar to, but different than the Golden Gate shown above, and with the 'David Grisman' signature stamp like the 'Clown Barf' version.

I bought it long ago, long before I played mandolin. I bought it becuse even as a guitarist, I couldn't really hold onto a typical teardrop pick, too small. Plus, I liked the mellow, fat tone of the really thick Grisman pick.

Order of preferences:
#1 = The One True Pick (OTP)
#2 = Tortis, w/ pointed speed bevel, sanded down a bit by hand.
#3 = Wegen M150 (these get used often)
#4 = Cow Horn sanded and beveled to taste.
#5 = Dunlop Unlex 1.14 Large Tri sanded down.
#6 = Clayton Ultem 1.14 Large Tri sanded down.
#7 = Dawg ... which I don't even really use anymore.

 - Benig

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## Michael H Geimer

" How can I find a genuine TS pick w/o killing a tortoise in the present ... "

I'm not sure you can. There is a lot of truth to the idea that demand of any sort (new or vintage) increases the attraction to poach, kill, and further threaten the species.

I'm being a bit hypocritical, since the OTP (One True Pick) is certainly the best sound I've ever heard from a plectrum, and "yes" there are people making these out of recovered, vintage material ... that is where I was told mine came from (an old pickguard), and I trust the source completely.

I did not seek out the OTP. It was a random gift, and I am happy to have it, but should it get lost or damaged ... I do not think I would go in search of a replacement.

Should you choose to go shopping for one, festivals are a common place to find those who traffic in the stuff.

 - Benig

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## Sarge

I started using a large dunlop jazzpick recently, switching over from a Dawg pick. It has a point....but very rounded.

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## Wolfmanbob

Benignus, Which pick are you referring to as the OTP?

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## AlanN

Sarge, that is one 'manly' pick. It's like playing with a coffee table.

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## mythicfish

I tried the 207 and found it noisy, even when polished.
The Proplecs that Ted E. sells are OK. You can round the business end, re-bevel & re-polish
I make my own from 1.5 mm Lexan and use Soft-Scrub to polish the bevel.

Curt

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## John Rosett

paul-
that clown barf grisman pick is the coolest! i've been a big fan of the white grisman/saga picks for years-mostly because they're easy to find if you drop them. after saga discontinued the white ones, i would search every music store i happened across, and i think i now have a lifetime supply. you don't have an extra one of those you want to trade for something, do you?

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## LBMando

Okay, after spending way too much money on picks and trying all my friends picks...I finally narrowed my favorite picks down to 2... First Place) 1.11 genuine TS pick and Second Place) 1.14 Dunlop Ultex, the one with the Rhino on it...I have a bunch of Dawgs in case anyone needs some?

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## dabowsa

LB - I've been wanting to try out those Dawgs, but couldn't justify the $20+ tag. Perhaps I could paypal you a few bucks for 1 or 2 and a $.37 postage stamp?

-Ben.

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## LBMando

Ben...PM sent...No problem

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## dabowsa

Thanks to an exchange with LBMando, I have a few new picks that I've been playing with.

I have a really hard time with the Dawg/Golden Gate styles - my attack just isn't "perpendicular" enough to the strings, and I end up sliding across instead of getting a clean "pick."

Since I'm a beginner, does this mean I have to work on my technique? Or does it mean I should avoid roundish picks?

I do fine with a more pronounced point - I've done a bunch of reading, listening, watching, and studying to convert my 15-year guitar stroke over to mandolin. I think I'm on the right track, but I was wonder if this means I have farther to go? Or just pick a pick that works?

-Ben.

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## Paul Hostetter

I think you should let your playing evolve around the pick that actually works for you, rather than feeling compelled to play with the 'flavor of the month" pick everyone else insists you use. I spent decades playing with old Italian guys who could play circles around most mandolinists of any style, and they ordinarily used tiny extra-light picks which they would trim to a point with a pair of scissors. They were really loud, they had clarity of attack and tremolo and speed to die for, and they were playing with a pick diametrically opposed to the hunky Grisman-esque picks that everyone thinks they need to use. Like most people, you'll find your taste in picks constantly changes as your right hand technique matures. After more than forty years of experimentation, I am now using something about as thick as the Grisman thing (but slightly bigger) for guitar:

 (and I use the upper, fatter corners, not the point)

...but something more like a Fender or Nick Lucas Deluxe medium for mandolin. I also use the upper corners, not the point as well. 



Different instruments sound better with different picks. Different hands work in unique ways. Don't let people shoehorn you into one certain pick just becasue one of their idols uses it; try different things and see what works for you. And keep trying. Above all, don't throw away the ones that don't work, because they might be just the ticket in a year or five. Worry more about your music, and figure out the kind of pick along the way.

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## Slim Pickins

Every man has his woman, but the mandolin player has his pick

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## keithd

Paul - that is one sexy pick; does it really slurp?

To address the original post, I've been playing about 4 years or so, and I'm still migrate occasionally from pick to pick, but much less frequently than before. These days, I'm using a Wegen tri-corner that is 1.2mm thick. I'm completely addicted to the assymetrical bevel of the Wegen, which mimics the natural wear of a hard played pick. Of course, you can do this for yourself on any pick with a nail file and very fine sandpaper.

I know a great player who uses a tiny worn piece of real tortoise shell. It doesn't produce great tone to my ear, but he swears by it. Every year it gets smaller and smaller...

Keith

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## Paul Hostetter

Hi Keith - 

The pick rasps more than it slurps, I'm afraid. Jim Larsen is Girl Brand, and his instruments are some of the most imaginative art guitars I have ever seen. Cruise his website for a sense of it. The actual items are, on close inspection, immaculate, which you won't get from the site. Neither are they all just Teles with different decorations, thay're much more varied. Some of his designs are out of his own head, some are collaborations with graphic artist Janet K. Miller (Janet Planet). http://www.girlbrand.com/ He's some kind of mad genius. 

I used to hand-make Wegen-style picks with that assymetrical bevel (you can see it on mine, above, but they just get that way from playing) for some of the Django-heads in my clientele until Wegen stormed the world. His were originally completely handmade too, but he eventually tooled up and they're only semi-handmade now. I still handmake certain picks with various bevels for certain players, but the options on the market are so huge now compared to ten years ago that it's not very necessary. I have always advocated that people make their own. As you say, you just need a file and appropriate abrasives. It's fun!

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## otterly2k

wow-- those guitars are wild!

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## mandroid

Love the Clown Barf ones, not many around eh? 
 Benefit, as I see it, the likelyhood of the floor you drop the pick onto being that color is pretty small.. 

{unless purgatory is formica lined}

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## keithd

Wow - they really are sexy; not always (ahem) politically correct, but sexy. The neck inlay on the Shopgirl is wonderful! Thanks for the link. He certainly is the Rauschenberg of guitar making.

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## kww

It's shame he doesn't know Japanese well enough to rotate the characters properly when he writes "rock and roll" across the neck of the kanjigirl series, though.

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## keithd

P.S. - the food series (Wafflegirl, etc.) reminds me of when an artist friend and I (during the workday at an art supplies store) decided to test the limits of the postal service with a post card that was a fitted box with clear plastic top built around a slice of pizza - it was successfully mailed from SF to a friend in New York. I don't think they ate it though...

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## Paul Hostetter

A friend in Berkeley has a couple of his guitars, including one with a clear top full of display sushi, it's really hip. He has another based on a Stradivari (baroque) guitar, with a fold-out cutaway. Rauschenberg is a very apt comparison. 

If he gets his Japanese characters misaligned, he's in lots of company with the throngs of young Americans who've had mystery or gibberish Chinese or Japanese characters tattooed on themselves. Perhaps he laid the characters out as he did for their aesthetic feel rather than their literal message. 

I don't think I'd have eaten a mailed piece of pizza, even from across town!

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## kww

t's probably just a typo: I e-mailed him. The one character that is just a single bar is supposed to be rotated 90 degrees from how he has it: it should be written down the center of the neck, not parallel to the frets. Or, he can the rest of the text 90 degrees and reverse the character order. Either way is right.

When I lived in San Jose, there was a guy at the gym that had the Japanese characters for "horse" and "deer" tattooed on his bicep. He was told by the tattoo artist that it symbolized his love for the outdoors. I didn't have the heart to tell him it actually said "baka", the Japanese word for "fool."

The two correct ways are shown in the picture:

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## Paul Hostetter

Ha! This reminds me of when my friends Heath Curdts and Jody Stecher and I went to China to play music. We called ourselves the Blue Mountain Ramblers. The first summer, we went to Beijing, and we had a lot of free time so we explored. One of our normal daytrips was to the Forbidden City, a magnificent place which includes a little tourist souvenir neighborhood. In that place was a stall that made chops, the little carved stamps that you usually ink with red ink to use as a signature of sorts. Jody had the big idea: let's get a Blue Mountain Ramblers chop! OK! 

Unfortunately the guy at the stall spoke no English, but he was a really sweet and earnest fellow and soon engaged a bunch of his neighbors and a dictionary to get the idea of what we wanted. The hitch was: what is a rambler?? We tried and tried, and thought we got it. So he went ahead and made the chop, and it was lovely. Later that day we went back to the hotel where we were playing and showed the results to some Chinese friends who spoke good English, and asked them what it said. 

Blue Mountain Tourists!

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## keithd

Ha ha! It's beautiful though - and at least it's not tatooed on your biceps (or worse, on your intruments)! 

Yeah, the Sushigirl guitar is very Pacific Rim! Was the Stradiveriusgirl on the website too?

That's some beautiful looking caligraphy kww.

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## kww

If my handwriting was that neat, I would be very proud. It's just the MS Mincho font, run through Word and screen captured so I can post it on the cafe. I tried posting Japanese text directly, and the message board software did not cope very well.

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## cam

Clayton Gold is my fav, louder and clearer than any other pick I've tried - cuts through in Irish sessions. #

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## dabowsa

After scouring the web, I placed an order last week with BigCityString.com.

The website is a little dated, but it has just about all the picks discussed in this thread, and they let you buy 1 or 2 of each, instead of having to get the 6- or 12-pack (except for Wegen).

I got 20 picks and 2 sets of strings in 2 days for $20.

The catch? You just have to spend enough money to justify the $3.95 shipping charge.

Recommended!

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## TeleMark

> Unfortunately the guy at the stall spoke no English, but he was a really sweet and earnest fellow and soon engaged a bunch of his neighbors and a dictionary to get the idea of what we wanted. The hitch was: what is a rambler?? We tried and tried, and thought we got it. So he went ahead and made the chop, and it was lovely. Later that day we went back to the hotel where we were playing and showed the results to some Chinese friends who spoke good English, and asked them what it said. 
> 
> Blue Mountain Tourists!


Love the story... I guess it makes sense, as tourists and ramblers tend to move form place to place, seeing new things... I picked up a T-shirt in Asakusa in Tokyo ( the last remaining "Old Edo" section of Tokyo; temples and such). It is in Kanji, and the vendor told me that the translation was "Spirit of Japan," But I tell people that it says:

STUPID TOURIST.

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## lkb3rd

I prefer real turtle shell around 1-1.5 mm, in either the classic fender shape or the large triangles like a wegen TF. #I also like wegens in the same shapes, but in a pinch nearly any pick will do, the heavier/stiffer the better. #I have a bunch of different picks i occasionally break out from bone 3 mm gypsy jazzers, to fender xtra heavy, dunlop super heavy dark purple ones (2mm?).. #o yea, i have a few wegen "dawg" shaped picks that i like but find hard to get clean speed with, and some golden gate dawg picks on order should be here in a few days.
Picks are fun!

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## glauber

The only thing i can't do without right now in a pick, is a nice sharp point. In this i see i'm different from most mandolin players in the Cafe, except the Classical folks. I think shape is more important than material, and rigidity is important (i don't like picks that bend). I don't change picks from song to song either, i use the same pick for everything. Currently i'm using an F1 with slightly sharped point.

All this is only personal preference.

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## Jim Broyles

I like these. Not a real sharp point, but not really round.

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## lawdawg

This weekend I watched a guy a/b picks. #He was playing a nice mando with elixer strings. #He used real tortoise, golden gate, dawg, martin. #You would not believe the difference in the real tortoise and all others. The tortoise was much much brighter, louder, clearer.

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## Ted Eschliman

Discussion of distribution of tortoise products is prohibited on the Cafe site by forum rules. Commerce of these is illegal. Any such posts will be deleted, with participants risking loss of posting privileges.

Best not go there.

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## cooper4205

i use those ultex pics, too. i also use pics-by-the-pound 1.10's and pro-plec pic shaped like the ultex but it's a 1.5

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## Doug Edwards

I like the Red Bear Tortis picks, although a little pricy. They seem to be the closest I've found to the real thing. Usual discliamers apply on the picking on the mp3's & NFI.

Tortis B style

Tortis E style

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## Paul Hostetter

> This weekend I watched a guy a/b picks...You would not believe the difference in the real tortoise and all others. The tortoise was much much brighter, louder, clearer.


There's way more to how a pick sounds than the material it's made of: thickness, the shape and thickness of the edge, the flexibility of the material itself. Not all tortoise is the same. And there's the attitude of the player as well.

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## Doug Edwards

Paul is absolutely correct. Some guys can use a quarter and sound good.

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## lawdawg

I know there are so many variables - I just was blown away by the difference with same guy, same mandolin, same strings, same licks but different picks. #I thought I would share my experience with you guys. #I personally like the golden gate. #However, if I stumble across a genuine ts on the ground, I will take the time to pick it up.

BTW - Doug, great site and you guys sound really good. What a great ministry.

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## DryBones

> Paul is absolutely correct. Some guys can use a quarter and sound #good.


so if I use a 50 cent piece will I sound twice as good?

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## AlanN

> #However, if I stumble across a genuine ts on the ground, I will take the time to pick it up.


Just what happened to me. Walking along festival grounds at the Delaware BG fest in 1997, I spied a pick on the ground. Turned out to be ts, and I still use it to this day. That day, there was one unhappy camper (dropper) and one happy camper (droppee).

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## Bertram Henze

Since real tortoise is illegal, the question worth discussing is what artificial stuff comes nearest? I used .60 Dunlop Tortex up to now, but they seem to be too light lately (slow down my speed) and quickly wear down their crisp response. I have ordered a pack of Clayton Ultems to see what they can do. Never tried real tortoise, and probably never will. Coins or bottle caps won't do for me.

Bertram

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## JEStanek

I just ordered some Golden Gates and a horn pick from Janet Davis. The Golden gates for me aren't as nice as either the fat JazzMando pro-plec or the Dawg pick. The horn pick looks like it was cookie cutter made (i.e., I need to smooth/shape the edges) and maybe it will sound better. Attitude and grip seem to make a tremendouse difference with the same pick. If I hold one very loosely I get more click than if I have a firmer grip and use the same attach strength. Also, my angle into the strings (firm 90 degrees to string or a less than 45 degree brushing stroke or angling the pick to slanting across the strings). I may have found my pics (ProPlec Jazz-mando both sizes or the Dawg are very comfortable to me).

Jamie

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## Smyers

I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Below is a photo showing a couple of "classical" style picks I use along side a standard Tortex, which I also use. #Someone posted a couple months back describing the pointed picks. #As you can see, they are just modified standard picks.

The big one in the middle is a modified Dunlop which was given to me. #I really don't like this pick, as it is too hard to hold onto with those narrow little wings. #The one on the right is a Tortex that I modified. #It gives the same kind of sound that the one in the middle one does, but I have much better control of the pick itself. #It still takes some good plectrum control practice to ues this kind of pick to keep it from walking all over.

What I like most about this kind of pick is that the sound produced is highly articulated and pick noise is much lower than a standard pick. #The tremelo sound with this type of pick if fabulous... smooth and buttery. #It sounds great on the old time mountain stuff. #For the heavy woody chop of bluegrass, the standard type pick still rules.

I make these picks while holding them with my fingers with a dremel with sanding wheel and then sand the edges with 400 grit sandpaper. Takes me about 2 minutes per pick.

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## RI-Grass

Hard thick picks seem to provide the best tone.
I like the Buffalo Horn 2mm picks, but they wear funny and aren't as fast after just a little playing.
The D'andrea ProPlecs are too round at the points and not thick enough at 1.5mm. Although they do provide a mellow, muted tone that can be good under the right conditions.
I've tried the Clayton Ultex at the 1mm maximum. While they're as hard as ts, they are also to "clicky" and don't provide enough muscle for a good tone.
Forget the Dunlop stubbies. Sure, they're fat and stiff, but  the instrument sounds kind of tinny bouncing off of these babies.
I like the Red Bear Heavy tortis picks, and am tempted to try the even heavier Gypsy Jazz, but $30....yikes.
A friend gave me some Delrin disks at 2mm and I carved out a pick that is very, very close to the Red Bear in smoothness and tone. Actually, it may sound better. It's just that close.
In looking up Delrin on the web, I see it referred to as Acetal in many places. Clayton has some 1.9mm Acetal picks so I ordered some and expect them this week. It would be nice to find a fat, toney, pick that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and doesn't require half an hour of sanding and polishing.
Just my $.02
Sal

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## Jim Broyles

RI - I think the stubbies sound pretty good. They would be my favorite pick if they were bigger. The Clayton Ultex comes in 1.2 which feels about the same as the Dunlop Ultem 1.14, which I like a lot. To me, the Tortis picks mute the tone about like the Dawgs, D'Andrea ProPlecs and Golden Gates. To me, they all sound muffled compared to the Dunlops. My ts pick is okay, but even it it muted, to my ears. I have some fake Wegens I bought from ebay and they sound nice, but again, muted. I can get the best tremolo with the 3.0 mm stubbies, but all around, I like the Ultem 1.14's the best.

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## RI-Grass

JB,

You're right. My Ultex are 1.2. Still too thin, though. I wish they'd make these at 2mm.
It is amazing that you have the exact opposite results with the Tortis and the stubbies.
Which Tortis picks did you try? I'm using the "C" (large tri-corner) style in Heavy.

Sal

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## Smyers

I am curious about something. #I know that tortoise is illegal and for excellent reason. #Is a turtle shell the same stuff? #We've got lots of those around here and it's not illegal to catch turtles. #We've got box, paints and snappers. #I just threw a big snapper back in the pond that was walking down the street in front of my house the other day. #He must have been a 10 pounder. #If it is the same, I might just go fishin' here soon.

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## Cheryl Watson

I play a lot of bluegrass but also a hybrid syle of newgrass with celtic and classical elements. I use a custom quite heavy gauge style C Tortis pick with rounded edge. I use it a Monroe grip for bluegrass: the pick is quite heavy and moves back and forth in the loose grip (the pick looks like rubber bending from the side if you watch someone correctly use this grip). 

For more celtic/classical playing I use the same pick but with a slightly modified grip (with a bit less curl in my pointing finger) for the celtic/classical material. I can't keep changing picks all the time so I've learned to use the same pick for all styles but with a slightly different hold on the pick-and it is a very loose grip. 

That said, for celtic/classical, the classic teardrop shape works great for a lot of players keeping in mind that different players like different picks. 

It really is whatever works for you, but for a cheaper tryout, you might buy a few Dunlop Delvins in 1.14 gauge--they are hot pink (easy to find) and may not be to your liking color-wise but they have a nice beveled edge and a crisp, full tone. You can use one of the rounded shoulders or the pointed end. 

If you like those, but not the color, Red Bear Trading Company makes a Tortis pick in this shape -- I think it would be a style B with a rounded edge but they also have a few variations on the classic teardrop that are very nice.

Tortis hardly wears at all, unlike plastic, though you need to wipe them off after you play because they do not like moisture over time. The points are very easily modified to get the exact shape that works best for you, they come in tortoise shell color, and sometimes clownbarf, you can get them with the little tiny lasered holes that help your grip (I don't need these) and they sound the best of ANY pick I have ever used-even the genuine tortise shell which wears more and has more pickclick. I have heard of a few players whose body chemistry can soften Tortis (which is a natural material) but this is quite rare. The only downside is the cost but plastic wears fast and in this case you get what you pay for...

C

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## DryBones

I still keep going back to my Dunlop Gator Grips in the 1.14 size unless I want a real soft,mellow sound then its the D'Adrea Proplec 1.5

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## Paul Hostetter

Scott - what we think of as a turtle's shell is actually mostly bone (an extension of vertebrae and ribs) covered with a membrane of living tissue in plates called scutes, which are made of keratin, the primary substance in hair, nails and hooves of other animals. Those plates are the stuff picks are made of. The thickest scale of shell you'll get from any domestic freshwater turtle will be about the thickness of a shrimp shell, and will be similarly brittle. 

Box turtles are inedibly toxic, and their shells are very curved. Snappers are even more topographically impossible from the get-go. Painted turtles might be the only likely candidate - for a Barbie-size pick. 

 .

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## Bluegrass Boy

It's actually the shell of the Hawksbill turtle that has been used to make many kinds of items, including picks. The hawksbill is listed as an endangered species by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources. It is also listed as endangered throughout its range by the Endangered Species Act of 1973 and distribution is restricted under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES).

It's actually not illegal to own or buy old tortoise shell products in the US. You can go into any antique store and buy the stuff legally (if they have any). There's a bit of hysteria surrounding the subject. I've heard people talking about undercover Federal agents at bluegrass festivals looking to bust people with TS picks. Couldn't be further from the truth. Those Feds are looking for Saddams WMDs.

Moderator - If I've violated the forum rules, I appologize, and you can delete this post. I just felt the need to try to interject some facts into a discussion where clearly there has been some lack of information.

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## Ted Eschliman

No problem talking about them, what part of the critter they are extracted from, or even why one would prefer them over current synthetic substitutes. No "hysteria" here, either. We just aren't allowing people to buy or trade them publicly on the message board or in the classifieds. Even isn't specifically illegal, it puts us on a slippery slope of illegal (plus it gets us off on distracting flame-worthy tangents, defending or attacking Endangered Species policies).

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## Bob Denton

Just a word of caution, US Customs takes CITES very seriously. On a recent trip from South Africa, they g uy in front of me had bought a souvenir safari hat which had ahat band that turned out to be made from either leopard or cheeta. His hat turned into a $2500 on the spot fine and was confiscated. He also missed his connections.

In the carribean, you can often see a lot of what appears to be tortoise products for sale, supposedly legal. Be careful!

Cya!

Bob

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## Bluegrass Boy

It actually is illegal to distribute TS picks via the internet so the Cafe's policy is a good one. You can distribute old TS intrastate but not interstate, which the internet is considered to be. When I started making picks from old items from antique stores I called up a U.S. Fish and Wildlife enforcement agent to find out where I stood regarding US law. Very friendly and helpful guy.

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## AlanN

Funny, everybody who claims to have ts claims it's from old combs from antique shops. Just an observation.

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## Lefty&French

> Funny, everybody who claims to have ts claims it's from old combs from antique shops. Just an observation.


... or found a pick on the ground! #

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## AlanN

Touche, mon frere!

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## Lane Pryce

I love my TS pick. It plays like nothing I've had before. Wished I had purchased two. Lp

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## Lefty&French

Hi AlanN,
for me, I'll stick to my lefty Wegens!

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## AlanN

So, there are lefty and righty picks? I thought picks were like forks

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## Lefty&French

There are even righties who think lefties just have to flip the bridge...
(lefties Wegen : lefty beveled pick , believe it or not.

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## DryBones

just picked up some righty Wegen TF100's to see if I like the sound before ordering some lefties. These thing are great!
Lefty&French, what size/model are you using? I am thinking of the M100's or TF120's.

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## lawdawg

Got a TS shaped exactly like a Golden Gate last week. "Found it on the ground at a festival?" Exceeds all my expectations. The Dawgs and GGs are are on the bench.

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## bush-man

lol! Glad I found this thread, it is quite informative.../me looks on the ground.....

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## JeffD

Picks are like sunglasses - you will lose the expensive ones in a week, and the cheapies you can't get rid of.

I got an expensive Dugain horn pick, and enjoyed it until I lost it. Took about a month. I lost a Tortis C style too, can't find it anywhere, and I have only had it two weeks. But I have Gibson triangular heavies with the logo so warn off that you can't read them.

I will bet you dollars to donuts if you lost a Fender medium teardrop basic black pick down a sewer grate some sanitation worker would find it and mail it back to you. 

But there is someone, somewhere, in some parallel universe, sitting on a pile of high end flatpicks, stacks of special amber polarized fishing sunglasses, and a mountain of left socks from the laundry.

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## bush-man

lol!

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## Soupy1957

I wanna go back to Tailspin and the post near the beginning of this thread........concerning the "Dawg" picks: $18.00 a dozen???!!!!
  Gimme cheap "medium" no-name music store picks any day!!
  -Soupy1957

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## DryBones

$18 a dozen is cheap. Wegens TF's are 2 for $15. the M100's are a bargain at 3 for $15.

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## Lefty&French

> just picked up some righty Wegen TF100's to see if I like the sound before ordering some lefties. These thing are great!
> Lefty&French, what size/model are you using? I am thinking of the M100's or TF120's.


black M150 and custom white 125 (1,25mm).

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## JeffD

The Tortis are something like $20.00. I am going to drill a hole in it and wear the damned thing around my neck

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## anchorman86

I didn't realize how much of a difference the pick makes. I was using an .88mm teardrop Dunlop Tortex, but they're so small I had to hang on for dear life, and couldn't get the nice loose grip I wanted. I started using a regular Fender Medium that I had lying around with my guitar, and the grip was improved but there was too much pick noise. Switched to the same pick in Heavy - the pick noise was reduced, the volume came up and the tone was improved. Not the best, but we're getting there. I just ordered some 1.07mm Clayton rounded triangles, we'll see how it goes.

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## Paul Hostetter

On <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/15-PREMIUM-CELLULOID-346-GUITAR-PICKS-MOSAIC-HEAVY_W0QQitemZ330039448213QQihZ014QQcategory
Z20831QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">eBay every day</a>, 15 heavies for $11.45 ppd:



That works out to 76 cents apiece. Cheaper if you buy more.

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## JeffD

Just got some Wegen TF140. Woo hoo. They sure sound great. They won't replace my Tortis C, but they will find use. Especially in a jam session.

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I bought "Dawg picks" (well golden gates actually) and I convinced myself that they were great due to the price but actually I have drawn the conclusion that they are quite awful and they suck (literaly, and the volume from the mando also).
Tortex (purple) are better, especially when playing with the back corners I personally think and Dava controll picks are magnificent for the Chris thile type rythm thing.

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## Paul Hostetter

Wow, that was, um, really incoherent!

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## Mike Bunting

Uh?

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## mandroid

... like the Clown Barf stuff, the likelyhood that they would be the same color 
as the floor you drop them on, is extremely remote.

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## Paul Hostetter

Yah, you rite.

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"Dawg picks" (well golden gates actually) and I convinced myself that they were great due to the price.&gt;&gt;

This is regarding the common human condition of not admitting you have been easily led by others to pay a #nonsensical ammount of money for something you dont find to be worth the price.
----------------------------------------------------------

 but actually I have drawn the conclusion that they are quite awful.&gt;&gt;

This would be regarded as the moment of self realisation.
---------------------------------------------------------

and they suck (literaly, and the volume from the mando also).&gt;&gt;

I find that the picks do not bring out the best in my mando tone/ they are cumbersome and they decrease the volume of my instrument. I used the term 'suck' with this been an American site (I should perhaps stick to my native terminoligy)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Tortex (purple) are better,

I find the Tortex picks that are coloured purple (1.something mm)much better in all aspects of a mandolin related nature ie:volume / tone /speed /clarity.
-----------------------------------------------------------

 especially when playing with the back corners.&gt;&gt;

These would be the two more rounded corners you would normally find at opposing points on the rear edge of the pick. (standard shape pick)
------------------------------------------------------

 I personally think that controll picks are magnificent for the Chris thile type rythm thing.&gt;&gt;

I find these picks are particually good for the fast, rythmic style playing Mr Thile uses to accompany songs or when other instruments are soloing.
This is due to the flexible nature of the pick.
Eg:With a loose pressure on the pick they become quite flexible and the tighter you grip between thumb and forefinger the more rigid the pick becomes due to the cunning design.

I do hope this explanation is satisfactory,

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## mikeyes

vtpicker,

Now you have gone and done it, started a classic (and never-ending) thread on picks. #So I will put in my two cents.

Since you are intrested in both classical and "Celtic" (by which I assume you mean Irish traditional music and not Manx or Galician) your pick requirements will probably be different from those of bluegrass. #The techniques required to play each of these styles of music are different from one another and bluegrass and you will find that pick styles are usually different too. #Since you have not actually taken the journey (of playing these kinds of music for a long time) you will have a lot of experimenting to do.

Pick choice is dependent on a number of things including your choice of instrument and setup, your style, and your ear. #Classical mandolins are traditionally bowl backs (go to the Classical section for more information) but Gibson mandolins were originally made to play music similar to classical. #They usually are oval hole instruments (not always) with lighter strings. #The Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra used semi-flatwound strings the last time I talked to one of the members in order to have a similar sound. #Using very heavy Dawg type picks will not bring out that sound.

Irish mandolin, while in its infancy, is evolving towards a less than banjo, much less than bluegrass style that emphasizes the right hand to drive the music with its typical "lilt" and uses triplets along with other ornaments to make a sound that is not like bluegrass (either.) #The instruments used tend to be oval hole (mostly because that was what was available) but F hole instruments show up all the time. #In my last class with Roger Landes he suggested a pick in the .80 mm range - since that is what he uses - but I found that if you are careful about your technique, you can use a heavier pick as long as it had a point like the Proplecs that will glide through the strings while bringing out the tone of the instrument.

Very light picks don't do that because the string tension on a mandolin is fairly heavy and you have to drive through the strings in order to drive the top. #Most of this drive is provided by the hand and not the pick, but your pick has to be stiff enough to transmit the force of the hand. #Very heavy picks (above 1.5 mm) are harder to use technically (it can be done, however) and they impart a fatter tone that you may not want in the context of your playing.

I have also found that it is hard to play Irish music in a session (which usually has fast tempos) with the Irish rythmn playing certain picks which otherwise sound great on stage. #Mostly it is a matter of learning what you need and what you want. #This all takes time.

The pick is important because you want the best tone you can get from an instrument. #Tone is dependent on your technique and the pick adds a little more to it. #If you have bad tone, it is most likely not the pick but your poor technique causing it unless you are using a very thin pick. 

I am always looking for the perfect pick. #I found that I need several types of picks because I play several types of music. #I have also found that different mandolins do better with different picks and if I change string types, I sometimes need a different pick than the one I was using. # It is not a simple matter of choosing one pick and going with it.

That being said, Bill Monroe is supposed to have used whatever pick was available, but then he was never a tone monster and he played an action so high that people would scream in pain when they tried to play his Loar &lt;G&gt;.

Picks are cheap, even at $20 apiece, so try a lot of them. #I've settled on (maybe) 5 choices that I use when things change, but I have hundreds of pick choices if none of my favorites fit the bill.

Mel Bay Banjosessions

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Picks are cheap, even at $20 apiece

Do you mean $20 or $2.0?
(just out of interest)

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## mikeyes

It's like fish hooks. 

You pay $600 for a rod, $300 for a reel, $$125 for line (these are all fly fishing analogies) and then balk at paying a quarter for a fish hook. The point where the rubber meets the road should have the best equipment. $20 for a Tortis pick when your mandolin is $2000 and your string budget is probably at least $60 a year for ? 10+ years. If you are careful, your picks will outlast you. Why skimp?

Besides, if you have a $20 tortis pick and don't like it, you can sell it for at least half that if not more.

So I meant $20. 1% of the cost of your mandolin (or less) to assure that your mandolin sounds the best it can.

Mel Bay Banjosessions

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## Paul Hostetter

$20 for a hand-made pick is a good deal. I love to make picks, but I'd die of boredom doing it day in and day out for a living. If I had no choice though, I don't think I could sell one for less than $20, and I'm fast. That's why I keep telling people to buy an oversized ready-made, like those clownbarf jobs above, and work it to the right shape. It's not rocket science, it's a cheap education and a good way to get a good pick.

----------

I agree,
The cost of a pick has absolutely no effect whatsoever on the sound of your mandolin wether it be a $2000 dollar mandolin or a £350 one as mine is (eastman 505 if your interested). You find your favourite type of pick constantly (depending on the day of the week or hour of the day sometimes)
And Yes, of course you should be able to spend $20 on whatever pick you like, I would love to have the funds . But what I am trying to say is that most picks follow a similar basic formula, I know there are many variations on thickness and material but the formula is pretty much along the same lines and produced for very little money.
A few holes drilled here, a bevel filed on a edge there but same as same as.
Its when 'names' come into it and it becomes expensive for a pretty basic product that it bugs me.
Fashion accessories???

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## Paul Hostetter



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## Lane Pryce

Paul that is some purty clown barf --- I've never seen the pearlescent CB. Lp

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## Paul Hostetter

Jeez, I thought someone would comment first on the covergirl from the new Elderly catalog, speaking of picks as a fashion statement. The 1-15/32" wide abaloneyoid pick is actually just a regular Fender Heavy 346 which I reshaped a bit. This is a smaller 351 of the same material:



It's more the shape I like, but it's too small, so I make or rework ones of this shape, but larger. Like a lot of folks, I use the stubbier upper corners, not the usual pointy tip.

The one at the left here is my current fave. The other two are the Fender 346, before and after.

----------

Fantastic use of picks. In fact that gives me an idea!, I could make my wife a pair of earrings and a nice necklace with the golden gates. Perfect with christmas around the corner.

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## mangorockfish

That cover girl sure looks a lot better than a bunch of picks taped to a mike stand.

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## JeffD

> It's like fish hooks. #
> 
> You pay $600 for a rod, $300 for a reel, $$125 for line (these are all fly fishing analogies) and then balk at paying a quarter for a fish hook. #The point where the rubber meets the road should have the best equipment. #$20 for a Tortis pick when your mandolin is $2000 and your string budget is probably at least $60 a year for ? 10+ years. #If you are careful, your picks will outlast you. #Why skimp?
> 
> Besides, if you have a $20 tortis pick and don't like it, you can sell it for at least half that if not more.
> 
> So I meant $20. #1% of the cost of your mandolin (or less) to assure that your mandolin sounds the best it can.
> 
> Mel Bay Banjosessions


Yes exactly!

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## RI-Grass

(mikeyes @ Nov. 15 2006, 17:21)
It's like fish hooks. 

You pay $600 for a rod, $300 for a reel, $$125 for line (these are all fly fishing analogies) and then balk at paying a quarter for a fish hook. The point where the rubber meets the road should have the best equipment. $20 for a Tortis pick when your mandolin is $2000 and your string budget is probably at least $60 a year for ? 10+ years. If you are careful, your picks will outlast you. Why skimp?

....

It's not the cost of a single pick. These things are small and light and easily misplaced or lost. Not to mention having extras around just in case.

After hunting around for a while, I finally found a pick manufacturer that'll make tri-corner delrin picks in a 2mm thickness. They come with rounded, textured edges, so I file a bevel with a nail file and buff out the bevel with a nail-polish brush. Delrin is a very "slick" hard plastic. The sound and feel are outstanding and comparable to tortis at less than a dollar a pick. They're at In Tune Guitar Picks
They will send a sample on request, but then have the picks printed with the logo or phrase of your choice. The down side: Minimum order is a gross.

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## jgoldsney

Hmmmmm no one has mentioned my favorite pick.....Jim Dunlop Big Stubbies 2mm thick

http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.p....ks

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