# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  secular songs of praise

## billkilpatrick

louis armstrong's version of "what a wonderful world" was brought to my attention recently but can you think of any other songs of joy and gladness which are devoid of specific religious references?  nat king cole's "nature boy" has a nice metaphysical flavor to it but is still secular.  can you think of any songs which herald man's scientific or engineering achievements? ... breakthroughs in medicine perhaps? ... woody guthrie was commissioned to write a song about the great coolie dam but has anyone ever written a song about jonas salk, for example - the man who discovered a cure for polio?

how about songs written about the majesty, wonder, etc., etc. of nature?

armstrong's version seems to enjoying a break from youtube ... but herrre's joey!

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Beanzy, 

Dave Kirkpatrick

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## OldSausage

Well, there's this:

http://www.symphonyofscience.com/

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billkilpatrick, 

Dave Kirkpatrick

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## Darren Bailey

What's the context for their use? Why the need to avoid religious content?

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## mrmando

Well, there's always Dr. Stephen Baird and his "scientific gospel music." Sat through a live set of his once ... I can't remember if my band was on right after him or he was after us ... kind of a one-joke act that got tiresome after three songs or so. YMMV.

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## JeffD

Who are we praising, then?

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Marty Henrickson

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## catmandu2

I was thinking..."Lush Lfe" 




add:  it _is_ my favorite tune of all time (these days)

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## billkilpatrick

> Who are we praising, then?


exactly ...

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Jimdalf

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## billkilpatrick

> Well, there's this:
> 
> http://www.symphonyofscience.com/


thanks david - that's wonderful - going to share this

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## Andrew Roberts

I never thought I would see Symphony of Science pop up on the Mandolin Cafe, but I'm pretty pumped that it did!  My personal favorites are Onward to the Edge and The Case for Mars.  First person to upload some mandolin covers gets a big Mandolin Cafe thank you from your's truly.  There is also a really nice remix of some Mr. Rogers clips by the same person behind SoS that might fit the bill, Bill.



A secular song of praise from an ordained Presbyterian minister... something for everyone!

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albeham, 

Alyx Hanson, 

Bill Stokes, 

billkilpatrick, 

Cindy, 

ComMANDOmatt, 

craig.collas, 

OldSausage

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## allenhopkins

Well, "secular..."  I immediately thought of the late Dave Carter's _Gentle Arms of Eden,_ but there's a "goddess" in there, which takes it out of the secular realm.  However, if you listen to the words, seems that the "goddess" is really a flesh-and-blood person, since Carter sings:

_I will lay my burden in the cradle of your grace
And the shining beaches of your love and the sea of your embrace_

which seems pretty immediate and not at all supernatural.

In any case, a great song:



I've heard Tracy Grammer do quite a bit of Carter's music, and his untimely death in 2002 deprived us of a really distinctive voice.

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ComMANDOmatt

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## billkilpatrick

lovely song.  "this is my home - this is the only home i know" sounds pretty secular and at a stretch, "goddess" might refer to an age of reason metaphor for "mom nature" but the garden of eden reference, alas, puts it squarely in a biblical context.

i googled dave carter - thanks for the reference

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## billkilpatrick

someone suggested this - george almost solo:

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## Alex Orr

"Redwood Hill" is an old Country Gentlemen tune.  Our banjo player refers to it as a gospel song for tree huggers and Wiccans  :Laughing:   I think the lyrics are ridiculous, but our guitarist/singer likes it, so we play it, and FWIW, the chord progression and melody are cool.

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Timbofood

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## adgefan

You might like "Here Comes Science" by They Might Be Giants with its songs about the scientific method, the elements, DNA, evolution and electric cars (amongst other things). All the tracks can be found on YouTube.

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## mandocrucian

*secular song of praise:* 

_"Boobs A Lot"_ by The Holy Modal Rounders  (or The Fugs)

= = = = = = = = 
or, more seriously:

_"Crown Of Creation"_ - Jefferson Airplane

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Mike Bunting

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## Mike Bunting

How many here have that first Fugs album. We actually had them at the New Penelope Coffeehouse in Montreal. Ah, Sunflower, Weary of Time, Swinburne Stomp

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## Laird

> Well, "secular..."  I immediately thought of the late Dave Carter's _Gentle Arms of Eden,_ . . .
> I've heard Tracy Grammer do quite a bit of Carter's music, and his untimely death in 2002 deprived us of a really distinctive voice.


Gosh, I miss Dave. What a sad, untimely passing--and what a beautiful song. 

There seems to be more in that vein coming out of my native Pacific Northwest than in other places. I'll have to put my mind to it, but Laura Love, Michael Franti, and even Hot Buttered Rum come to mind.

Hey, how about "Best Feeling," by Keller Williams (performed here with the String Cheese Incident)?

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## Laird

One I've been enjoying performing a lot lately (our band tends toward eco-conscious, peace-loving songs) is "Old Man and the Land," by Railroad Earth:

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## Laird

Couldn't find a video, but here's Hot Buttered Rum's "Return Someday": 
http://www.myspace.com/hotbutteredru...meday-41999579

And here's one of many relevant songs by Elephant Revival:

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albeham, 

billkilpatrick

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## billkilpatrick

number one on the list:

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## Laird

> Who are we praising, then?


I'm thinking "what" might be a more useful word here, in the spirit of Bill's post, since "who" encourages personification (with all of its attendant problems).

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## billkilpatrick

my answer to both is "us."

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## Pete Counter

> I'm thinking "what" might be a more useful word here, in the spirit of Bill's post, since "who" encourages personification (with all of its attendant problems).


Its an offhanded way of publicly proclaiming a distaste for religion. The same people if god is mentioned will start yelling about thier rights being violated. Seems like a thread with high potential for being locked.

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## farmerjones

i'll add Three Dog Night's, Joy to the World and Travis Tritt's, It's a Great Day to be Alive.

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billkilpatrick

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## Jesse Harmon

Well one of my favorite's in this vein is James Taylor's  "Up from your life",  also on the same  "Hourglass " album I think "Gaia" and also one called "Up Er Mei" seems to put me in a place that somehow doesn't seem to insult my life experience.  Probably a little off the mark from "secular" I suppose.

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billkilpatrick

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## billkilpatrick

> Its an offhanded way of publicly proclaiming a distaste for religion. The same people if god is mentioned will start yelling about thier rights being violated. Seems like a thread with high potential for being locked.


gee - i hope not - i'm genuinely interested to find songs which reflect wonder and spirituality and talk about life in general, our relation to the natural world, etc. without any religious association.  

i didn't post this in the "gospel" section of the forum for the very reason you mention.

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Cindy, 

Mo Soar

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## tree

Technically a tune (not a song), but . . .  _Europa (Earth's Cry Heaven's Smile)_, by Santana.

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## Dave Gumbart

Rare Earth, I Just Want to Celebrate, perhaps?

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## Tavy

This is such a matter of interpretation... personally I like the Wailing Jenny's One Voice:




I also like Glory Bound, which they describe as a "non denominational Gospel song", but I guess that doesn't count ?  :Wink:

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Astro

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## Jack Roberts

> Who are we praising, then?



There is a good secularized version of "How Can I Keep From Singing" that Pete Seeger used to do. Not quite as moving as the original Baptist version.

Enya does the secularized version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdRSRTqOyi4

BTW:

Whaddya get when you cross a Unitarian with a Jehovah's Witness?




Somebody who knocks on your door for no reason.


(I hope I'm not pushing the thread shutdown button, Scott!)

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bookmn, 

Marty Henrickson

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## Marty Henrickson

Maybe the title should be "Secular Songs of Joy", 'cause I don't really see what most of these songs are "praising".  "Here Comes The Sun"? - great song, but simply talking about a new day, or the change of seasons....

Okay, I'm getting off this thread, before I precipitate a lockdown.  'Bye.  :Wink:

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## multidon

How about "You've Got a Friend" (Carole King/James Taylor), "Wind Beneath My Wings" (Bette Midler), "The Greatest Love" (Whitney Houston). These songs praise, respectively, friendship, a hero/role model, and inner strength. While I am a big fan of "praise music" praising God, and am a member of a praise band and play a lot of that, there are things about human beings that deserve praise too. After all, we are created in His image! Given enough time I'm sure i can think of many more, but these are the three that popped into my head right away.

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## mugbucket

With tongue planted firmly in cheek...




Cheers,

Ski

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Andrew Roberts, 

billhay4, 

sgrexa

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## Andrew Roberts

Great call on The Wailin' Jennys, Tavy.  I had briefly forgotten about them, but I think "Heaven When We're Home" is another good one from them that might fit the bill as far as the type of music Bill was refering to.

And Ski, you win for giving me my loudest chuckle of the day.

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## mandocrucian

> how about songs written about the majesty, wonder, etc., etc. of nature?





> Maybe the title should be "Secular Songs of Joy", 'cause I don't really see what most of these songs are "praising".


For those unfamiliar with my 1st place selection...........




_Do you like boobs a lot?
(Yes, I like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Really like boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.) 

Down in the locker room,
Just we boys,
Beatin' down the locker room
With all that noise,

Singin' do you like boobs a lot?
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.) 

Do you wear your jock a lot?
(Yes, I wear my jock a lot.)
Got to wear your jock a lot.
(Got to wear your jock a lot.)
Jock a lot, jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.)
Got to wear your jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.) 

'Cause, down on the football,
Football field,
You never can tell
What a heel can wield, 

So you gotta wear your jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.)
Jock a lot, jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.) 

If I had a flag-a-long,
(If I had a flag-a-long.)
If I had a long flag-a-long,
If I had a long flag-a-long,
If you like boobs a lot, tag along 

Bee beep, bop, de boob a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.) 

They're big and round,
They're all around.
They're big and round,
They're all around. 

(MUSICAL BREAK)

Do you like boobs a lot?
(Yes, I like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Do you like boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.) 

Down in the locker room,
Just we boys,
Beatin' down the locker room
With all that noise,

Singin' do you like boobs a lot?
(Yes I like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.) 

Do you wear your jock a lot?
(Yes, I wear my jock a lot.)
Got to wear your jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.)
Got to wear your jock a lot
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.)
Got to wear your jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.) 

'Cause, down on the football,
Football field,
You never can tell
What a heel can wield, 

So you gotta wear your jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.)
Jock a lot, jock a lot.
(You gotta wear your jock a lot.) 

If I had a flag-a-long,
(If I had a flag-a-long.)
If I had a long flag-a-long,
If I had a long flag-a-long,
If you like boobs a lot, tag along 

Bee beep, bop, de boob a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.)
Boobs a lot, boobs a lot.
(You gotta like boobs a lot.) 

They're big and round,
They're all around.
They're big and round,
They're all around._

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Beanzy, 

billkilpatrick, 

hank

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## Astro

oops

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## Astro

Great thread. I don't see how it could possibly be offensive to anyone.

Great songs. Keep them coming.

And don't forget, likely some "religious" songs were secular tunes first and probably some visa versa.

My favorite religious song ?

Jeremiah Was a Bull Frog by Three Dog Night, of course.

I am quite sure it was originally a sacred gregorian chant from the middle ages adopted to modern spiritual sensitivities.

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## KEB

It's probably technically a bit agnostic, but the Dead's Box of Rain has always been a bit of an ode to wonder in the world for me.

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## mrmando

I think we've left out the most obvious one of all:

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## Astro

OOPs again. I see Joy To The World by 3 dog night was already given. Sorry.

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## TEE

One of my favorite videos of all time. He had a lot of friends all the way to the end.

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## Bill Stokes

Great thread.  Here's one from 1966.  I love this song.

Stevie Wonder was a voice of the civil rights movement.  Not a strident voice; more melodic.

And this song also qualifies I think.  Praise of life and love.

I just found this thread.
Those are off the top of my head.
Beg pardon in advance
If I keep 'em coming 'til it's dead.

Bill

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## brunello97

When we were little kids in Texas we heard Jim Pepper's "Witchi Tai To" and just flipped.  Time hasn't diminished that feeling at all.




Oregon's many versions have the same power of praise for me.




Thanks, Bill K, this is yet another one of your more inspired moments.

Mick

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billkilpatrick

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## Bill Stokes

Check this out.  Vive la praise.  Tres secular.  Subtitles if you don't speak French.  Je veux means "I want:" love, joy, good humor, etc.

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billkilpatrick, 

Mike Snyder

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## billkilpatrick

great choice - i remember the brewer and shipley version but hadn't heard it in years ... until about 30 seconds ago - fabulous!

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## billkilpatrick

bil - oui-oui! - great song - fabulous voice

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## billhay4

Almost anything Kate Wolf did.
This is a great thread. Let it be.
Bill

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billkilpatrick

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## Laird

> It's probably technically a bit agnostic, but the Dead's Box of Rain has always been a bit of an ode to wonder in the world for me.


Might as well add "Ripple" to the list.

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## Astro

And Don't forget the great epic spiritual, Moma's Got A Squeeze Box,  by The Who

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## Astro

Morning Has Broken-- Cat Stevens (Well its generic enough to be close)

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## Bill Stokes

Two numbers from the original cast of _La Cage_.  I saw the revival on Broadway a couple of years ago.  Hilarious, heartwarming; great theater.


In praise of individuality, and being true to one's self.  Or whatever...


The Grand Finale.  A secular song of celebration.

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## Mike Snyder

GREAT thread. A list is running in my head and I think it has no end. There is something, and I haven't put my finger on it yet, that has to do with what music really means to me in this. Thanks billkilpatrick.

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## Astro

The Sound Of Music

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## Bill Stokes

Can't bring myself to paste in a video.  This song needs another few years to be heard again with fresh ears.

It was written by one of the greatest jazz guitarists: George Benson.
And the song is _The Greatest Love Of All_

A couple of decades more, it may be up there with _What A Wonderful World_ in the classic category.
At present, a lot of people heard it too many times and think it's too corny.
Actually, _I_ heard it too many times.

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## Bill Stokes

I keep thinking of shows I've played in.  There are just so many great songs.
I'll knock off for the night, after this one.




> how about songs written about the majesty, wonder, etc., etc. of nature?

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JLewis

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## Bill Stokes

Can't stop myself.  Here's a jazzified Rainbow Connection.

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## hank

I like to Imagine like John Lennon did so long ago now.

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## billkilpatrick

i'll never be able to play some of these on mandolin ...

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## Tavy

+1 million on the Kate Wolf suggestion.

Let's also not forget "The Joy of Living" by Ewan McCall, always thought I would have this one as my epitaph:

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## Wastafair

"i'm genuinely interested to find songs which reflect wonder and spirituality and talk about life in general, our relation to the natural world, etc."
Bill, I think of "Short Grass" by Ian Tyson (Ian & Sylvia). Beautiful song.

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## Bill Stokes

Composed as a trombone ensemble piece and dedicated to the people of Japan, shortly after the tsunami.
The music starts at 0:36  Main theme at 1:50  From there it builds, adding more musicians.  Some of the best brass players in the world are in this.


This should have been the first song I thought of.  My high school band, with community members, played it in May.  It has been arranged for every kind of ensemble.  Music freely available here.

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## brunello97

Here's "Aguas de Marco" which I have always heard in the terms of which Bill describes, with it's emphasis on the smaller details of life.  I've been playing this on the mandolin for some time.  Since we've been living up north March has taken on a whole new meaning.




Mick

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Bill Stokes, 

billkilpatrick

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## Larry S Sherman

> Here's "Aguas de Marco" which I have always heard in the terms of which Bill describes, with it's emphasis on the smaller details of life.  I've been playing this on the mandolin for some time.  Since we've been living up north March has taken on a whole new meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mick


Sometimes I think this is the most beautiful piece of music ever written, and this version is my favorite. Especially when the laughing nearly takes over.

Larry

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## Daniel Nestlerode

Dylan's "Forever Young" and Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land" come immediately to mind.

I like the idea of grouping thankful songs into a "secular praise" category.  We can think of them as non-denominational/lacking a particular religious identification but expressing gratefulness anyway.  

And now that I use the word "thankful" Elton John's "Thankful" comes to mind.  But that's a horrid little tune.  :D

Thanks for the thread Bill!

Daniel

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## joshtree

I love that this is being discussed.  Music is supposed to bring all emotions to a higher level.  And it is inpiring to  be reminded that religion doesnt have the monopoly on prase.  
Of course not to slight religion but as a secular person I too enjoy celebrating the finer things in life.

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## hank

This is certainly thought provoking Bill, reminds me of Leon Russells Tight Rope.  John Prines Fish and a Whistle comes to mind and finally my cranium snapped to the fact that this song says it perfectly.

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## Jack Roberts

Let's not overlook Friedrich Schiller's "Ode to Joy", immortalized by Beethoven's 9th symphony.

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## Bill Stokes

Here is one that is basically secular, though there is a hint of Theistic reference in verse 3.  SONG STARTS AT 4:10


I'm enjoying this thread as a fun challenge, to find songs that "praise the good," without reference to any particular faith tradition.
Out of respect for forum guidelines and fellow members, I won't say anything about my own beliefs except that I've resigned from the debating society.  Here's hoping we can keep a positive discussion going by just talking about the music.  Perhaps axe-grinding could be done through the personal message function.
Sorry if I sound preachy.  That's the last thing I want to be.

peace,
Bill

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## billkilpatrick

> Maybe the title should be "Secular Songs of Joy", 'cause I don't really see what most of these songs are "praising".  "Here Comes The Sun"? - great song, but simply talking about a new day, or the change of seasons....
> 
> Okay, I'm getting off this thread, before I precipitate a lockdown.  'Bye.


i've been thinking about this and i'd say that if the lyrics went something like this: 

"here comes the ____ (insert deity of your choice)" 

... the song would be considered a song of praise, no?  as a force nature i think it's pretty praiseworthy - even if it was once worshiped as a god.

here's a video from the "beatles" social group here at the cafe:




"songs of praise for redundant gods" might make an interesting list as well

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## Jesse Harmon

Appalachian Dreams by John Duarte is especially meaningful for me.  It is on an album by Sharon Isbin among others.

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## Marty Henrickson

> i've been thinking about this and i'd say that if the lyrics went something like this: 
> 
> "here comes the ____ (insert deity of your choice)" 
> 
> ... the song would be considered a song of praise, no?  as a force nature i think it's pretty praiseworthy - even if it was once worshiped as a god.  
> 
> "songs of praise for redundant gods" might make an interesting list as well


I see your point, Bill, and I'm sure my idea of a song of praise is highly influenced by my personal beliefs, which is why I'm opting to (mostly) avoid posting in this very interesting thread.

However, in the spirit (notice lowercase "s"  :Wink: ) of the thread, it did just occur to me that ELO's "Mr. Blue Sky" would make a perfect companion piece to "Here Comes The Sun" in a secular praise medley:

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billkilpatrick

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## JH Murray

Phil Madeira is a well known Nashville musician and producer. His day job is playing guitar for Emmylou Harris. He has put together an interesting project where he co-wrote an album's worth of songs with artists like Emmylou, Civil Wars, John Scofield, Buddy Miller, Dan Tyminski, all based on the premise that 'God is love'. He calls the album Mercyland - Hymns for the Rest of Us. They are uplifting and beautiful. And Scofield is clear that he is no 'believer'. 




I saw Madeira perform the album at a Christian festival in North Carolina last month. These songs are not the propaganda I often associate with Christian music, but are heartfelt struggles for the transcendent glimpse of the divine, like many of the other great songs which have been nominated in this discussion.

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## Bill Stokes

> Phil Madeira is a well known


 etc.

I really liked both of those songs.  I wouldn't classify either as secular, though.

Just my $.02

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## bratsche

Three good ones, all completely different - the venue and presentation for each contrasts markedly, as well.

bratsche

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## TEE

Another one I like.....

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## mandocrucian

To qualify, in my mind, the song must also have some sort of anthemic quality.  And I can't think of too many that have that in addition to the other "qualifiers".  


_"Salt Of The Earth"_ - Rolling Stones

_"Crown Of Creation"_ - Jefferson Airplane (best sci-fi themed - evolution/natural selection - song ever written; actually most of the lyrics were lifted/adapted by Kantner from Brit sci-fi writer John Wyndham.) 

_"White Rabbit"_ - Jefferson Airplane  (ode to chemistry)

_"Everyday People"_ - Sly & The Family Stone

_"Respect"_ - Aretha Franklin

_"A Change Is Gonna Come"_ - Sam Cooke

_"Get Together"_ - The Youngbloods

and if you want to include "show tunes" (which are *not* of the _"Born Free", "The Impossible Dream"_ kitsch ilk)
_"Always Look On The Bright Side"_ - Monty Python (or..._"The Lumberjack Song"_ - Monty Python)

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billkilpatrick

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## billkilpatrick

anthems ... right.  i think most of the what has been suggested so far have been particular songs relating to personal situations, specific to the artists.  of course, if one of these were to suddenly become widely played, that would change.  tavy's suggestion of the "one voice" song comes pretty close

another "qualifier" - i think - should be its playability.  do religious hymns have a recognized formula?

not likely to be played on mandolin but this gives me goose bumps still:

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aphillips

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## OldSausage

Here's a new and rather good one from John D Boswell for PBS Digital Studios, this time featuring Bob Ross:

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## Bill Stokes

> and if you want to include "show tunes" (which are not of the "Born Free", "The Impossible Dream" kitsch ilk)


I almost nominated "The Impossible Dream."  I guess kitsch is in the ear of the beholder.  The song may have been played to death two or three _decades_ ago, but it is a secular song of praise.  I recently heard it sung beautifully by a 10th grader, so that influenced my attitude here.  I love that song.

So now we're adding new criteria.  Qualifiers.  I can't see the word "anthemic" without thinking of this bit:


Totally off-topic.  Like I care.

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billkilpatrick, 

Jesse Harmon

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## billkilpatrick

> Here's a new and rather good one from John D Boswell for PBS Digital Studios, this time featuring Bob Ross:


had to watch that all the way to the end - fab' - i thought all those paintings came from hong kong and were done by machines

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## Gerry Hastie

> Here's a new and rather good one from John D Boswell for PBS Digital Studios, this time featuring Bob Ross:


I've been hypnotised several by Bob Ross...

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## billkilpatrick



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## John L

Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rVVnNMsDP0

http://www.youtube.com/embed/0QFxlp59sEY

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## Astro

To qualify, in my mind, is easy.

Its just qualifying in everyone else's that keeps stumping me !

Old Sausage, as usual, you nailed it (no pun intended).

We all were hypnotized by this guy as a kid. Art aside, you can tell he had a good heart. Happy Clouds and thinking like water, I'd say he's either on to something or on something.

I think the former.


Big grandiose anthems make me yawn.

Spirituality, amazement at the wonder, appreciation of the beauty, I relate more on a smaller scale...at least in my mind (pun intended).

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## CelticDude

> _"White Rabbit"_ - Jefferson Airplane  (ode to chemistry)


LOL.  I never thought of it that way.  More of a "better living thru chemistry" in my mind.

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## Bill Stokes

> Big grandiose anthems make me yawn.


Yeah, well.  You and my friend the oboe player.  She recently rattled off a list of the reasons she hates musicals.  It was all the same reasons that I love 'em:  They're corny and sentimental, people just randomly start singing in the middle of a sentence, they always include some epic grandiose bellow-fest, etc.

I'm surprised that there aren't more love songs being suggested.  Praise of the sacred other, or whatever.

And if your list includes old chestnuts by the Byrds and Jefferson Hair Pie, why not throw in Stairway To Free Bird?  (Or wait, wasn't that the title?  My memory of that era seems a bit inexact, for some reason.)

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## Paul Cowham

I really like this song, and for me it is quite spiritual albeit in a secular way

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## billkilpatrick

selections tend to be subjective.  hard to say what i'd call a "secular" song of praise but i expect it has a lot to do with tone.  "oh what a wonderful world" is the closest - it's big, it's comprehensive, it's upbeat.  oddly enough, if only the first verse were taken into account, "amazing grace" could be secular - grace through humanism.

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## Astro

Rocky Mountain High  ?sort of?

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## shortymack

> selections tend to be subjective.  hard to say what i'd call a "secular" song of praise but i expect it has a lot to do with tone.  "oh what a wonderful world" is the closest - it's big, it's comprehensive, it's upbeat.  oddly enough, if only the first verse were taken into account, "amazing grace" could be secular - grace through humanism.



Been watching from the sidelines but I have to throw the instant replay flag here. No part of Amazing Grace is secular. Grace through humanism?  :Disbelief:  Huh? 

Call me old fashioned but I think secular and praise really don't belong in the same sentence describing music/songs. Total oxymoron IMO. Why not say 'feel good songs' or 'songs that make you happy'?

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jso

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## CelticDude

I don't think anyone's mentioned Dick Gaughan yet.  Something like "Different Kind of Love Song", or his songs celebrating workers and the "common man", might fit the Bill.

Thanks for this thread, BTW, it's introduced me to all kinds of stuff I wouldn't find on my own.

----------


## allenhopkins

Secularized Quaker hymn, _How Can I Keep From Singing:_



Does still have the word "hymn" in the first verse, but you could put "song" in there instead.

Notice how many pages threads go to, when we're all posting YouTube vids?

----------


## Beanzy

This one always gets me smiling...

Today Is A Good Day - The Carrivick Sisters



I always thought this Dianne Reeves song with a similar name was 'secular' in Gospel style, but listening back it's not really.
Still a cracker though...


And the Ozark Mountain Daredevils were great for knocking out songs celebrating anything at all.

----------

Bill Stokes

----------


## Bill Stokes

My wife and I just got home from a concert at Meadowmount.  It's 20 minutes from here.  We saw a performance of Mendelssohn's Octet, with Joseph Silverstein on 1st violin and students on the other parts.
Mendelssohn wrote this at age 16.  It is secular; no religious dedication or programatic agenda.  Is it a song of praise?  I don't know.  Hearing it performed by an 80-year-old master and seven teenagers caused my heart to fill up with joy.

Here is a sample of the 3rd movement.  I don't know who these guys are, but the sound and skill level are comparable to what I just saw.

----------


## Bill Stokes

Re-reading this thread, I see that I suggested a song which had already been mentioned.  (Greatest Love Of All.)  Sorry about that.

Just wanted to add an "Amen" to _It'll Shine When It Shines_ and _Today Is A Good Day._  Those Carrivick Sisters are dynamite.  What a pair of pickers!

----------


## Bill Stokes

> Call me old fashioned but I think secular and praise really don't belong in the same sentence describing music/songs. Total oxymoron...


Tsk, tsk.  No name-calling.  Perhaps "paradox" would be the thing to call it.

----------


## OldSausage

I don't know if this really belongs here, but 42 years later boy does it sound good:

----------


## CES

Supper's coming. so no time to really elaborate or read the thread, but. regarding medical advancements. Keller Williams' "Kidney in a Cooler" comes to mind  :Wink:

----------


## Astro

I'll sing a song of praise that fashion has changed since Mungo Jerry.

That doo, sideburns, fishnet shirt and pink scarf ...well I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Great song though.

----------


## OldSausage

I think Ray Dorset is still sporting the same look today.

----------


## Laird

> Rocky Mountain High  ?sort of?


Oh, HECK YEAH!!!

Definitely confirmed that I wasn't alone, back in the 70s, in finding more signs of the numinous in the mountains than in a church.

----------


## Laird

How could I forget Poi Dog Pondering! Most of their second album, _Living Like a Mountain, Thinking Like the Sea_, would qualify.

----------


## Laird

This version misses the emotional uplift that comes through in the production of the studio version, but the lyrics are still transcendent.

----------


## Wesley

Ever seen the english lyrics to Guantanamera? 

I am a truthful man
From where the palm tree grows
And before dying I want
To let out the verses of my soul

My verse is light green
And it is flaming red
My verse is a wounded stag
Who seeks refuge on the mountain

I grow a white rose
In July just as in January
For the honest friend
Who gives me his open hand

With the poor people of the earth
I want to cast my lot
The brook of the mountains
Gives me more pleasure than the sea

----------


## billkilpatrick

when that brass line kicks in around 1:45 i just have to get up and move:

----------


## Astro

Now there's a great one, billKP

Here's what I'd qualify for this thread on my list so far. 

1. Wonderful World

2. Joy To The World

3. Ode To Joy

4. Rocky Mountain High

5. Sound Of Music

6. I Can See Clearly Now

----------


## Astro

What about Bob Marley's

Every Little Thing's Gonna Be Alright ?

Its short, not really a grand scale, but it sure is sweet.



"Don't worry, about a thing,
'Cause every little things, gonna be all right.
Singin': "Don't worry, about a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right!"

Rise up this mornin',
Smiled with the risin' sun,
Three little birds
Pitch by my doorstep
Singin' sweet songs
Of melodies pure and true,
Sayin', ("This is my message to you-ou-ou:")

Singin': "Don't worry 'bout a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right."
Singin': "Don't worry (don't worry) 'bout a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right!"

Rise up this mornin', ....( Repeat x 20 or 30 or until the white girls can't dance anymore)

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick

ha!

----------


## granite

"What about Bob Marley's

Every Little Thing's Gonna Be Alright ?"

- Astro

Or what about "Three Little Birds"...Couldn't find a adequate video on this one.





> Who are we praising, then?


Or what...G. Love and Special Sauce and their ode to the Blues....

----------


## Laird

> "What about Bob Marley's
> 
> Every Little Thing's Gonna Be Alright ?"
> 
> - Astro
> 
> Or what about "Three Little Birds"...Couldn't find a adequate video on this one.


Those are the same song.

----------


## Laird

> Hey, how about "Best Feeling," by Keller Williams (performed here with the String Cheese Incident)?


Just realized the lyrics are hard to make out:


I woke to the world one morning
I did not really know what was going on
I didn't care about tomorrow
I worry when tomorrow comes
I went outside that night
Set the ole imagination a flight
For one second I, I felt like a kid on Christmas day
Feeling stops all if said in a word
I will explain if I may
I climbed up a tree that night
I sat up in the branches and I felt like a bird
It was the best feeling in the world
I felt so good that night that my soul, it seemed to fly around that night
As I flew that night
For one second I felt like a bird
Hangin' up in the air
Feelin' stops all
If I said in a word
The feeling to be without a care
Swam in the sea that night
Dove through the waves and I felt like a fish
It was the best feeling in the world
Felt so good that night
My soul it seemed to swim around that night
As I swam that night
For one second I
Felt like a fish
Cruising around in the sea,
The feeling stops all
If I said in a word
The feeling to be free


More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/k/k...illiams/#share

----------

Beanzy

----------


## billkilpatrick

here's a goodie




If all the days that come to pass
Are behind these walls
I’ll be left at the end of things
In a world kept small

Travel far from what i know
I’ll be swept away
I need to know
I can be lost and not afraid

We’re gonna trip the light
We’re gonna break the night
And we’ll see with new eyes
When we trip the light

Remember we’re lost together
Remember we’re the same
We hold the burning rhythm in our hearts
We hold the flame

We’re gonna trip the light
We’re gonna break the night
And we’ll see with new eyes
When we trip the light

We’re gonna trip the light
We’re gonna break the night
And we’ll see with new eyes
When we trip the light

I’ll find my way home
On the Western wind
To a place that was once my world
Back from where I’ve been

And in the morning light I’ll remember
As the sun will rise
We are all the glowing embers
Of a distant fire

We’re gonna trip the light
We’re gonna break the night
And we’ll see with new eyes
When we trip the light

Come on and trip the light
We’re gonna break the night
And we’ll see with new eyes
We’re gonna trip the light

We’re gonna trip the light
We’re gonna break the night
And we’ll see with new eyes
When we trip the light

Music: Garry Schyman ©
Lyrics: Alicia Lemke and Matt Harding ©

----------


## brunello97

A bit of praise for this thread for both its inspirational music and ability to shrug off the occasional theist critique.  

I hope this effort sustains itself alongside all the "I wonder what Bill Monroe had for lunch on March 18th, 1938?" threads.

Mick

----------

billkilpatrick, 

bookmn, 

John Lloyd, 

Mo Soar

----------


## hank

Paul McCartney said it well, what's the matter with silly Love songs? No matter it's circumstance or form Love in all it's manifestations brings out the best in mankind and is well worth singing  and writing songs about. Can there be a more powerful praise for anyone or anything than to love that person or thing.

----------


## billkilpatrick

songs of praise should be transcendental, i think - metaphysical.  a "love song" can be a song of praise as well but it's very much a case of "not what you say but the way that you say it."  i also think songs of praise should have grace - secular, humanistic grace - yes! - with simple lyrics, expressing deeper meaning in very few words.

(... and uncomplicated chord progressions and melodies so i can play 'em ...)

----------


## hank

True Love is the most transcendental phenomenon I am aware of in this metaphysical world.  Physical infatuation and desire are often confused with love but genuine love has the power to transform this world and it's inhabitants in a way most can only dream of.

----------


## billkilpatrick

true ... providing the chords aren't too complicated and i can play it ... (wriinkled smiley symbol)

----------


## hank

I think you hit the target squarely with it's not unfamiliar words or chord progressions but how we sing it/play it. Isn't that our challenge to not just sing and play the notes but to sing and play them in a way that touches our listeners ability to love and find beauty in the world around us?

----------


## hank

I guess that's a pretty tall order and why it only occurs to us occasionally.  I'm glad most songs are about having fun and laughing at ourselves and the world around us.

----------


## Randi Gormley

Has anyone mentioned Seals and Crofts  "Summer Breeze" yet?

----------


## Laird

> Paul McCartney said it well, what's the matter with silly Love songs? No matter it's circumstance or form Love in all it's manifestations brings out the best in mankind and is well worth singing  and writing songs about. Can there be a more powerful praise for anyone or anything than to love that person or thing.


Point well taken--but now I've got that darned song stuck in my head for the first time in thirty years!

----------


## hank

Oh no!  I sincerely apologize for that.  I'm not crazy about the song and not sure why it came to mind. Most of what I'm trying to verbalize has already been said in countless ways.  This thread also reminds me of how different we all are and makes me wonder if there is one universal way for musical transcendence at all.  What gives goose bumps to some here has me running for cover.

----------


## Laird

> Oh no!  I sincerely apologize for that.  I'm not crazy about the song and not sure why it came to mind.


No problem. Based on my last experience trying to get that song out of my head, I should be "Silly Love Songs"-free by about 2038.

----------


## Astro

Summer Breeze Works For Me:

Summer Breeze lyrics

See the curtains hangin' in the window 
in the evenin' on a Friday night
A little light a-shinin' through the window 
lets me know everything is alright

(chorus)
Summer breeze 
makes me feel fine 
blowing through the jasmine in my mind
Summer breeze 
makes me feel fine 
blowing through the jasmine in my mind

See the paper layin' on the sidewalk 
a little music from the house next door
So I walked on up to the doorstep 
through the screen and across the floor
[- From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/s/seals-...ze-lyrics.html -]

(chorus)

Sweet days of summer 
the jasmine's in bloom 
July is dressed up 
and playing her tune

And I come home 
from a hard day's work 
and you're waiting there 
not a care in the world

See the smile a-waitin' in the kitchen 
food cookin' and the plates for two
Feel the arms that reach out to hold me 
in the evening when the day is through

(chorus)

----------


## Astro

Here's is what makes my list so far:

Here's what I'd qualify for this thread on my list so far. 

1. Wonderful World

2. Joy To The World

3. Ode To Joy

4. Rocky Mountain High

5. Sound Of Music

6. I Can See Clearly Now

7. Morning Has Broken (despite mild religious reference, its generic enough for me)

8. Three Little Birds

9. Summer Breeze

10. We Are Stardust (see See Old Sausage link--I think it qualifies and is a great tune. Ewwwy...Link's of old sausage ?)

----------


## billkilpatrick

> No problem. Based on my last experience trying to get that song out of my head, I should be "Silly Love Songs"-free by about 2038.


i'm still trying to flush out remnants of "si-im-ply-ee ha-a-ving a wonderful christmas time."

----------


## hank

I wish I could get the circle of fifths and complete mandolin fretboard stuck in my thick head instead of old obnoxious song lyrics.

----------


## Beanzy

From my formative years; The Waterboys. 
They were all about positive celebratory anthems


and Mandolin content!


 :Mandosmiley:

----------


## Dave Hicks

I assume the "garden" is metaphorical, but perhaps not secular enough?

D.H.

----------


## Laird

> i'm still trying to flush out remnants of "si-im-ply-ee ha-a-ving a wonderful christmas time."


Gee, thanks. That one is bad enough to dislodge "Silly Love Songs," but no more preferable.

----------


## fatt-dad

"Turn, Turn, Turn" whose lyrics are taken from the bible have no direct reference to any deity.

There are quite a few praise songs for the members of the opposite sex - ha!

f-d

----------


## billkilpatrick

> "Turn, Turn, Turn" whose lyrics are taken from the bible have no direct reference to any deity. There are quite a few praise songs for the members of the opposite sex - ha! f-d


ha! - yes indeed!

i thought of "turn x 3" but it mentions heaven ... "unto heaven," even.  great song but a decidedly theistic notion, me thinks

----------


## jackmalonis

I think MUSIC in and of itself and more specifically harmony are the most potent secular songs of praise to both nature and human perception. 

The fact that all harmony is simply perfectly dividing ratios between tones is amazing.  The fact that the human ear finds those rational tones pleasing is even more amazing. 

Music in itself is worship. Whether its worship of the God who gave it to us, or worship of the science mind/body connection that allows us to respond emotionally to something.

----------

hank

----------


## jackmalonis

I think MUSIC in and of itself and more specifically harmony are the most potent secular songs of praise to both nature and human perception. 

The fact that all harmony is simply perfectly dividing ratios between tones is amazing.  The fact that the human ear finds those rational tones pleasing is even more amazing. 

Music in itself is worship. Whether its worship of the God who gave it to us, or worship of the science of the mind/body connection that allows us to respond emotionally to something that is so evolutionarily useless.

----------

hank

----------


## brunello97

Hard to leave this guy out of the conversation. Some Jacobs wrestle with angels (or gods), others take on more beneficial struggles: Paolo Conte's "Alle prese con una verde milonga".  I've read them, many times. The Psalms have nothing on PC.




Io sono qui, sono venuto a suonare,
sono venuto ad amare e di nascosto a danzare.

Mick

----------

Bill Stokes, 

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick

translation with foot notes here:

http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/it...e-milonga.html

----------

hank

----------


## Bill Stokes

That Paolo Conte is a soulful guy.  Voice and lyrics remind me of Leonard Cohen, a bit.

----------


## Bill Stokes

A former student was raving about Snarky Puppy.  I have to admit they're amazing.  No mandolin content; sorry.  They have everything else, except vocals.  Pretty sure I saw a kitchen sink in here:


P.S. It's anthemic, innit.  Bit of an anthem, tha'.

----------

hank, 

Laird

----------


## fatt-dad

"Man gave names to all the animals"
"I believe in you"

Both from the less-than-secular "Slow Train a Coming"

f-d

----------


## redietz

> "unto heaven," e


That's "under heaven" and just sounds better that "under the sky".  I don't read any theistic notion into it at all.

----------


## Beanzy

Josh Ritter 
- The Lark  - (His paean to the emotional accepting the rational.)



Change of Time


And a bit of Randy Newman
Friendaship:


Relax Enjoy Yourself


There may be adulation, praise or devotion but there is no worship in the secular; though music is often used as a tool for all of them.

----------


## Andrew DeMarco

hey, awesome, a thread on nonreligious songs! i'm so proud of the cafe keeping this thread alive for as long as it has been alive! huzzah! :Smile:

----------


## billkilpatrick

here's the dilemma in a nut-shell.  it would be wonderful if it were true and very hard to give up:




link to chords - eminently do-able:

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/f/fr...ver_me_crd.htm

----------


## Johnny60

"I feel fine today" by Kevin Welch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhwaiPJMuls

----------


## billkilpatrick



----------


## Bill Stokes

Left-handed bouzouki content:

----------

Astro, 

billkilpatrick, 

hank

----------


## Dagger Gordon

Auld Lang Syne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3sXVxqDbFk

----------


## Mandolin Mick

In all seriousness, how do you praise an inanimate object?

----------


## brunello97

> In all seriousness, how do you praise an inanimate object?


Off the top of my head, there's John Keats: "Ode to a Grecian Urn".   

Avoiding comparisons between "inanimate objects" and "imaginary gods" is the kind of rhetorical head-butting that this thread has successfully navigated past.  Let's try to keep that going.

Mick

----------


## baptist mando55

Edit it out if you please but  _<Done.  Please follow the guidelines.  This thread has refrained from antagonism, let's keep it so.>_

----------


## brunello97

> Edit it out if you please but  <removed by moderator>


Easy big fellow, there is a place for that type of thinking, but this isn't it.  Please take that argument elsewhere.




Mick

----------


## baptist mando55

I have to stand firm in my conviction. I AM NOT ASHAMED!!!

----------


## Bill Stokes

Thanks and praise to the excellent Mandolin Cafe for providing a forum.
Kudos to Bill Kilpatrick for an interesting thread.  Thanks to all for comments and music.  (Well, almost all.  See above.)
Just wanted to get that in before this thing goes way south.

----------

Mo Soar

----------


## mandocrucian

<removed.  This doesn't help keep us on topic or lessen the heat now starting.>

----------


## billkilpatrick

soooo ... good - sounds great on mandolin:

http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/ge...steryBe.chopro

----------


## chriss

_Please review the posting guidelines.




			
				Topics started for or end up being used to discuss religion, politics or sex as well as other hot button issues meant to create discord are prohibited. Posts or threads deemed inappropriate or unrelated to our subject matter are subject to immediate removal at the discretion of the forum owner and/or lead moderator.
			
		

The original intent of the thread is being met and does not discuss religion, please refrain from injecting it here.  Since the membership comprises a wide range of beliefs the rules mark that topic as out of bounds to maintain a level of congeniality lacking elsewhere.  There are plenty of other places to discuss your beliefs on the web, this is not one of them._

----------


## mandocrucian

PRAZE TO THE "HAZE"!




IT'S SO KRAZY

----------


## Douglas McMullin

I thought the thread was called "secular songs of praise."

Great content prior to recent injection of religion though, so please keep the suggestions coming!

----------


## billkilpatrick



----------


## brunello97

I didn't realize there was a live version of this song around, but should have known better:  Van Morrison's "The Eternal Kansas City".  A bit slower than the original (and missing the choir) but check out Dr. John on the electric piano.

----------

bookmn

----------


## Mo Soar

Not wild about the video, but I've always liked the song by Chrissy Hinds. It's pretty much a tribute to the power of love (lol, cue Huey Lewis). Didn't we have "Stand By Me" earlier in the thread?

----------


## Andrew DeMarco

Self-proclamation of faith in this thread seem a bit inappropriate. It's great that you have such a strong faith, but this thread isn't about you or your faith. On quite the contrary it's about secular songs of praise! And luckily, secularists or non-religious folks don't need your understanding or permission to 1. write, 2. enjoy, or 3. share their favorite music. And no, it's not offensive to you or anyone else! I love lots of songs that mention gods and love songs that don't mention these things too!

I praise my parents for all their sacrifices for my success. I praise our Forefathers for founding such a lovely country. I praise our military members for protecting my freedom. I praise Scott for creating such an awesome website! I praise Bill Monroe, Sam Bush, Chris Thile, and many other mandolinists for creating such wonderful stimulating and inspiring music. Etc... 

Thank you again for such an awesome forum for discussion, and it's so interesting to see the great videos being posted!

Here's a song by the Punch Bros praising one's dynamic, Patchwork Girlfriend:

----------


## Dagger Gordon

FWIW, it's worth remembering that a non-religious person such as myself can greatly enjoy quite a lot of religious music. I greatly enjoy (for example) The Blind Boys Of Alabama, Gaelic Psalm singing and the Pakistani singer Faiz Ali Faiz.  I respect their beliefs and appreciate the musicality.

But this is an interesting thread and deserves to be debated on its own terms.

----------

Beanzy, 

brunello97, 

jackmalonis, 

John Lloyd, 

stevedenver

----------


## jackmalonis

> FWIW, it's worth remembering that a non-religious person such as myself can greatly enjoy quite a lot of religious music. I greatly enjoy (for example) The Blind Boys Of Alabama, Gaelic Psalm singing and the Pakistani singer Faiz Ali Faiz.  I respect their beliefs and appreciate the musicality.
> 
> But this is an interesting thread and deserves to be debated on its own terms.



Good point, I was just about to say myself that IMO no music should be thrown out because of a religious (or non-religious) connotation. When songwriters write a song, they write based on their own experiences, biases, and beliefs, and while their lyrics are reflective of themselves, they do not have to reflect upon the listener's "self" for one to appreciate the song musically.

If we're talking about _secular songs of praise_, I think that musicality should be praised above all, wherever one can find it. Music doesn't have to please you lyrically for it to be rewarding tonally. 

But as you said, it's for another thread. Sorry to interrupt the heaps of great music!

----------


## hank

Not a simple song that we can play on mandolin but none the less awe inspiring is Alan Hovhaness's Mysterious Mountain. No words are sung or spoken to divide us with conceptual bigotry only manipulation of the harmonies on the grandest of scales.  The Mountain takes an investment of your time and full attention with a system capable of it's reproduction but if your willing to stop all other activities relax and truly listen with all you are transcendence may be found there.  To find it stop all internal dialog the same way we do when playing musical instruments at our best and just listen as deeply as you can.

----------


## billkilpatrick

that ... is way beyond my mandolin ability - "symphonies of secular praise" might be a good follow-on thread for those who can!

----------


## brunello97

> that ... is way beyond my mandolin ability - "symphonies of secular praise" might be a good follow-on thread for those who can!


Years ago when I was working in Paris I used to have to ride a (very) crowded Metro line in the AM.  Before the doors would close the PA would sound the first three notes from Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man".  It never failed to put a smile on my face in the morning.

Mick

----------

billkilpatrick, 

hank, 

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

there was a tv show with walter cronkite that used the "fanfare" - might make an interesting mandolin adaption:

----------


## Bill Stokes

> "symphonies of secular praise" might be a good follow-on thread...


If we go there: Carl Nielsen's symphony #4, Titled "The Inextinguishable," by which he refers to the human spirit.

Thanks and praise to the Sheriff!

----------


## Astro

How about, America The Beautiful ?

Its a pretty tune, mandolinable, and certainly a song of praise. And at least the first verse is poetic on a grand scale. Some parts after that get pretty dated. Its a long one.

I'd consider it acceptable as secular even with the "God shed his light on thee".

I think the deity reference becomes part of the vernacular for believers and non believers and therefore works both ways.

----------


## brunello97

Close, but no cigar for me, Astro.  I like the song (and prefer singing it to the SSB or the woeful GBA) but I'm hoping the thread can continue to shrug off the non-secular encroachments.  No disrespect meant to your proposition, but these days I'm more appreciative of "James Brown shedding his grace on thee".




Mick

----------


## Astro

Well, James Brown does reference Noah and the arc in this song which could be considered "non secular encroachments".

Plus its pretty ironic hearing his soulful rendition of what I guess you would call a song in praise of women in that he was repeatedly arrested for domestic violence, assault on women including bashing his last wife in the head with a lead pipe and shooting a gun at her, rape(a former manager), and so many infidelities that all 4 wives (3 officially) pretty much learned to live(in fear) with it. He fathered 9 kids with the 4 known partners, rarely saw any of them as he toured the world as the hardest (literally) man in music and "fathered" at least 3 other children outside of marriage (proven and settled in court after DNA testing). In addition to being arrested for theft at an early age, he was arrested in later years for assaulting a police officer and numerous drug possessions and illegal firearms possessions. He preferred angel dust (pcp) but was happy to abuse most anything he could get his hands on.

He could be an explosive performer too, but I'll pass on him as exemplifying a song of praise.

----------


## bratsche

> there was a tv show with walter cronkite that used the "fanfare" - might make an interesting mandolin adaption:


I doubt it, but it works pretty well for violas, don't you think?   :Laughing: 

bratsche

----------


## billkilpatrick

[QUOTE=bratsche;1076776]I doubt it, but it works pretty well for violas, don't you think?   :Laughing: bratsche 

... very coplandesque - reminds me of "the new world symphony" - i'm at 2:40 and i have goosebumps - beautiful

----------


## billkilpatrick

arto - "america the beautiful" was the first song i thought of - i also made the mistake of thinking it was an irving berlin song.  it would be perfect if it weren't for the celestial shedding and crowning.  it's got an interesting history, albeit very "churchy:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_the_Beautiful

i did a mandolin rendition of "man's world" - i guess it is a song of praise.  just a tad chauvinistic, though ("isn't that right, dear?") -

----------


## Ron McMillan

I'm enjoying the content of the thread, and appreciative of the sensitive moderation that is keeping it alive despite attempts to take it off on an unwelcome and irrelevant tangent.

ron

----------


## billkilpatrick

me too - i'm very appreciative of everyone here at "the daily planet" - mostly you, lois - i knew this would raise a few eyebrows but i assure you, my interest is genuine.  if i were a real musician, a collection of "secular songs of praise" - cd and book - might be pretty successful ... a brand new niche, uniquely american in flavor.

----------


## Dagger Gordon

> ... a brand new niche, uniquely american in flavor.


Not necessarily.

----------


## Ron McMillan

> Not necessarily.


A name like Kilpatrick, and he thinks America might have a monopoly here?  :Smile:

----------


## billkilpatrick

let's just see how the independence referendum pans-out in 2014, lad-o-roos ... viz-a-viz official state religion.

----------


## Dagger Gordon

Well we certainly don't want to turn the thread on to state religion - in Scotland or anywhere else.

The question of a referendum on Scottish Independence, however, is fair enough but that would surely warrant a thread unto itself rather than here.

----------


## billkilpatrick

nyet!  i checked after posting and it seems the usa is not the only country to have instituted a separation of church and state.  i thought america was the only one, hence my use of the word "unique" - mega "pardon me."

----------


## billkilpatrick

A day once dawned, and it was beautiful
A day once dawned from the ground
Then the night she fell
And the air was beautiful
The night she fell all around.

So look see the days
The endless coloured ways
And go play the game that you learnt
From the morning.

And now we rise
And we are everywhere
And now we rise from the ground
And see she flies
And she is everywhere
See she flies all around

So look see the sights
The endless summer nights
And go play the game that you learnt
From the morning.

----------


## Ted Eschliman

> The question of a referendum on Scottish Independence, however, is fair enough but that would surely warrant a thread unto itself rather than here.


Not in this forum, please.

----------


## brunello97

> Well, James Brown does reference Noah and the arc in this song which could be considered "non secular encroachments".
> 
> Plus its pretty ironic hearing his soulful rendition of what I guess you would call a song in praise of women in that he was repeatedly arrested for domestic violence, assault on women including bashing his last wife in the head with a lead pipe and shooting a gun at her, rape(a former manager), and so many infidelities that all 4 wives (3 officially) pretty much learned to live(in fear) with it. He fathered 9 kids with the 4 known partners, rarely saw any of them as he toured the world as the hardest (literally) man in music and "fathered" at least 3 other children outside of marriage (proven and settled in court after DNA testing). In addition to being arrested for theft at an early age, he was arrested in later years for assaulting a police officer and numerous drug possessions and illegal firearms possessions. He preferred angel dust (pcp) but was happy to abuse most anything he could get his hands on.
> 
> He could be an explosive performer too, but I'll pass on him as exemplifying a song of praise.


I didn't realize we were proposing individuals for consideration here but rather 'songs'.  

But perhaps you are right.  After reading your selected recounting of Mr. Brown's life, I withdraw my suggestion that he be included as representative as 'secular'. The man himself sounds downright biblical.

Mick

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## Dagger Gordon

I take your point Ted.  I was just responding to Bill's comment about an independence referendum. It may not have been obvious to many of your US and other readers that it was Scotland he was talking about.

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## mandocrucian

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

----------


## Beanzy

The Streams Of Nantsian 

O the streams of Nantsian
In two parts divide,
Where the young men in dancin
Meet sweetheart and bride.
They will take no denial,
We must frolic and sing.
And the sound of the viol
O it makes my heart ring.

On the rocky cliff yonder
A castle upstands;
To the seamen a wonder
Above the black sands.
Tis of ivory builded
With diamonds glazed bright,
And with gold it it guilded,
To shine in the night.

Over Yonder high mountain
The wild fowl do fly;
And in oceans deep fountain,
The fairest pearls lie.
On eagles wings soaring,
Ill speed as the wind;
Oceans fountain exploring,
My true love Ill find.

O the streams of Nantsian
Divide in two parts,
And rejoin as in dancing
Do lads their sweethearts.
So the streams, bright and shining
Thoparted in twain,
Re-unite, intertwining,
Once thenceforth remain.


This I learend from a book "Songs Of The West" by Baring-Gould he also provides the melody by Cecil Sharp which I manged to get to work well on both the mandolin and tenor guitar.

However it's listening to Kate Rusby's version "The Streams Of Nancy" that really gets to the heart of this one musically.

----------


## Astro

> I didn't realize we were proposing individuals for consideration here but rather 'songs'.  
> 
> But perhaps you are right.  After reading your selected recounting of Mr. Brown's life, I withdraw my suggestion that he be included as representative as 'secular'. The man himself sounds downright biblical.
> 
> Mick



I agree with you. Should be about the music. I just found his praise ironic given his lifestyle and my personal interpretation of his songs is always tainted by that, not that it should be for everyone. You don't have to be a good person to make good music and as you said this thread is not about the person. I think someone might could use that as a song of praise,despite the biblical reference, just that I couldn't.

Great thread. Lets keep looking. It would be nice to have a master list as its getting hard to keep track of what has already been proposed.

----------


## Dave Gumbart

Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers, Beautiful Day, from Spirit of Music.

----------


## billkilpatrick

nils make a salient point ...

----------


## billkilpatrick

i think this is sort of metaphysical:

----------


## billkilpatrick

here's a song of praise for a machine - a model-T ford - by uncle dave macon:  (from a suggestion posted to the fiddlehangout site)

http://honkingduck.com/mc/listen/unc...dixie-bee-line

----------


## Mo Soar

Speaking of which, I am looking for chords and/or tabs to "Optimistic Voices" from Wizard of Oz. I see piano sheet music for it, but Ebdim and G7sus4 don't translate into mandolin chords that I know how to play....

Here it is on uke:

----------

billkilpatrick, 

bookmn

----------


## billkilpatrick

fabulous!

----------


## billkilpatrick

song of praise - certainly.  american - yep'

----------


## RoyO

Ian Tyson: Magpie
Connie Kaldor: I Love That Dog; Spring On The Prairies; Sky With Nothing To Get In The Way
John Denver: Sunshine On My Shoulders; What One Man Can Do (written about Buckminster Fuller); Seasons Suite
Sly & Family Stone: Hot Fun In The Summertime
Beach Boys: Warmth Of The Sun

Probably more out there but it's time to practise my mando.

----------


## TEE



----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## RoyO

Susan Christie: I Love Onions

----------


## Mo Soar

This was actually hard - looked up the song, but which version to pick? I had to pass up Ella Fitzgerald's version to post this one, which probably counts as a black mark against my very _soul_.

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## TEE



----------


## billkilpatrick

a secular fire and brimstone type song:

----------


## hedgehog

Lets try this.  I love these guys, there are two remarkable things in this video: First the banjo actually plays a melodee, which is not unusual for Eric Gibson and Joe Walsh is great on the mandolin, which is also nothing unusual for Joe.  The Gibson Brothers, "Ring the Bell"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZjxTen0jOAY

----------


## billkilpatrick

nice tune - wish it was a secular bell they were ringing - try the "gospel" section of the forum.

----------


## hedgehog

Oh so very sorry, In my understanding secular was more open minded, with this song not being of any one religion in particular it felt like it would fit.  I sometimes forget that we are now living in a society that is striving to become more and more godless.

----------


## billkilpatrick

that's ok.

----------


## RoyO

What a great thread you started, Bill! Amazing tunes from all the contributors!

 Here are just a couple of tunes from the many written in praise of ships: Stan Rogers: Mary Ellen Carter; John Denver: Calypso

Two life affirming songs: The Rankin Family: Rise Again; James Keelaghan: Dance As You Go (sorry, couldn't find a web link for this one).

Lastly, two songs from Gordon Lightfoot: One about spring: Pussywillows, Cat-tails and a hopeful song of peace; Peaceful Waters

----------

billkilpatrick, 

Mo Soar

----------


## Astro

Anyone as yet mention JT's Carolina In My Mind ?

(Too many posts to dig back through so sorry if it was mentioned already)

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick

agreed - though it's more a song of refuge, me thinks:

----------

jackmalonis

----------


## billkilpatrick

someone @ fiddlehangout suggested anything by robert burns - i have to agree.  here's a goofy video:

----------


## billkilpatrick

nice song/pretentiousness video from r.e.m. - with mandolin content, no less:

----------


## hank

Technical difficulties, pay no attention to the man behind that curtain

----------


## hank

works for me

----------


## billkilpatrick



----------


## neil argonaut

Just seen this thread, some nice tunes;

Haven't seen any Van yet though maybe I've overlooked, but this song I think fits the bill prefectly, both lyrically and moodwise:




This one too:

----------


## aphillips

Red Solo Cup? Hee Hee - definitely a praise song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZqGJONH68

----------

Astro

----------


## flatpickle

Woody Guthrie--Remember the Mountain Bed (from the Mermaid Avenue album)

Patty Griffin--Heavenly Day

And a ditto on Bob Dylan--Forever Young

----------


## neil argonaut

> And a ditto on Bob Dylan--Forever Young


first line: "May *God* bless and keep you always"

 :Smile:

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## neil argonaut

As well as church-sounding bells, ecstatic sounding lyrics/mood etc, this one's even got a bearded man in white with light streaming from him in the video, but no mention of religion:

----------


## billkilpatrick

(whew - in the weird video category, that's right up there) - good song though - thanks.

----------


## neil argonaut

> (whew - in the weird video category, that's right up there) - good song though - thanks.


What's so weird about human sized rabbits holding mirror balls? :Wink:

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## Astro

Well if it takes bunny suites to get girls to jump out of the bushes and sling their tops off..I mean a mans got to do what a mans got to do...not sure its a song of praise though I can't argue with the results.

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick



----------


## azflyman

> nice tune - wish it was a secular bell they were ringing - try the "gospel" section of the forum.


Saw that coming a mile off.  I have always wondered why folks who appreciate Gospel music are tolerant of secular music but the opposite does not seen to be true.   :Whistling:

----------


## ComMANDOmatt

> someone suggested this - george almost solo:


One of my favorite songs... need to learn this on the mando. I've seen other mandolin players performing it on youtube. I guess it's time I get to it. George was the best. Thanks for posting!

----------


## billkilpatrick



----------

Pete Jenner

----------


## belbein

> 


I must have gone to college with these guys--but who are they?

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick

> I must have gone to college with these guys--but who are they?


ha! ... haven't a clue but they sure take you back, don't they ...

----------


## CelticDude

Doing a search for the lyrics, I came upon Andy Corwin's Agnostic Gospel Song mp3 on Amazon.  Found the lyrics here.

----------

billkilpatrick, 

OldSausage

----------


## billkilpatrick

here's a nice one with joseph brent on mandolin:

----------


## rb3868

> Who are we praising, then?


How about the glory and beauty of this blue marble and all its varied inhabitants

----------

John Lloyd, 

Mike Bunting

----------


## Mike Bunting



----------


## FLATROCK HILL

> How about the glory and beauty of this blue marble and all its varied inhabitants


Yup. The whole kit-n-kaboodle just showed up one day, all by itself....out of nowhere. A trick like that deserves praise.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> 


that's "secular" songs of praise ... not "circular" ...

----------


## billkilpatrick

cutsie, secular alternative to "silent night:"

http://open.salon.com/blog/surazeus/...winkling_stars

----------


## Jeff Richards

How about**:
Stand by Me, Ben E. King
This is It (Your Soul), Hothouse Flowers
Stand Beside Me, Hothouse Flowers

This is a great thread!

Thanks Bill

----------


## billkilpatrick

beautiful rendition of this - secular song of love and death:

----------


## billkilpatrick

Your hands lie open in the long fresh grass, --
The finger-points look through like rosy blooms:
Your eyes smile peace. The pasture gleams and glooms
'Neath billowing skies that scatter and amass.
All round our nest, far as the eye can pass,
Are golden kingcup-fields with silver edge
Where the cow-parsley skirts the hawthorn-hedge.
'Tis visible silence, still as the hour-glass.

Deep in the sun-searched growths the dragon-fly
Hangs like a blue thread loosened from the sky: --
So this wing'd hour is dropt to us from above.
Oh! clasp we to our hearts, for deathless dower,
This close-companioned inarticulate hour
When twofold silence was the song of love.

- Dante Gabriel Rosetti

----------


## mandroid

"Red Solo Cup" By Toby Keith sounds like  one to me..  :Whistling: 


Now red solo cup is the best receptacle
From barbecues, tailgates, fairs and festivals
And you sir do not have a pair of testicles
If you prefer drinkin' from glass

Hey red solo cup is cheap and disposable
In fourteen years they are decomposable
And unlike my home they are not foreclosable
Freddie Mac can kiss my a**, woo! ...   [ Nixonian Explitive ]

Red solo cup, I fill you up
Let's have a party, let's have a party
I love you red solo cup, I lift you up,
Proceed to party, proceed to party

Now I really love how you're easy to stack
But I really hate how you're easy to crack
Cause when beer runs down, in front of my back
Well, that, my friends, is quite yucky

But I have to admit that the ladies get smitten
Admirin' at how sharply my first name is written
On you with a Sharpie when I get to hittin'
On them, to help me get lucky

Red solo cup, I fill you up
Let's have a party, let's have a party
I love you red solo cup, I lift you up,
Proceed to party, proceed to party

Now I've seen you in blue and I've seen you in yellow
But only you red will do for this fellow
Cause you are the Abbott into my Costello
And you are the Fruit to my Loom

Red solo cup, you're more than just plastic
More than amazing, you're more than fantastic
And believe me that I'm not the least bit sarcastic
When I look at you and say:
"Red solo cup, you're not just a cup (No, no, God no)
You're my friend, yea (Lifelong)
Thank you for being my friend"

Red solo cup, I fill you up
Let's have a party, let's have a party
I love you red solo cup, I lift you up,
Proceed to party, proceed to party
[repeat]

----------


## stevedenver

<comment deleted by Moderator>

----------


## stevedenver

> <comment deleted by Moderator>


wow, im really disappointed that a real song title, by a real group, in praise of womens 'parts', and not a vulgar or base term, but rather one ive actually heard used on network tv, by interviewers, women,  and even doctors  

which in a very human and physical way actually was relevant, 

and clearly posted as tongue in cheek merited censorship

when i think of the many rock and pop songs with suggestive titles, im a little concerned about this

would you have deleted a reference to Honeysuckle Rose?
Squeeze Box by the Who?

post 35 wasnt deleted, yet it refers to the same song
(which i had apparently overlooked in skipping around these many pages)
and as there were some prior posts referred to 'circular', referenced , again, tongue in cheek

----------


## OldGus

You may hear a doctor say it but they will not say it 50 times in a row with the maturity of a middle schooler, repeatedly asking if you like them. It's not the same or close to the same thing. It is not moral to excuse inappropriate behavior on the basis of "they did it too, why didn't you go after them". That is also a middle school tactic. Empty minded song, IMO, and if you ask me there is no praise in it but it is rather disrespectful.

----------


## stevedenver

> You may hear a doctor say it but they will not say it 50 times in a row with the maturity of a middle schooler, repeatedly asking if you like them. It's not the same or close to the same thing. It is not moral to excuse inappropriate behavior on the basis of "they did it too, why didn't you go after them". That is also a middle school tactic. Empty minded song, IMO, and if you ask me there is no praise in it but it is rather disrespectful.


to each his own
i didnt think 'morality', within reason was the issue, 
im over 50, knew this song when it first came out, and now , as then, i find it amusing, in a silly way
 im not understanding how mentioning a song is disrespectful-ideas are ok with me, not to be limited so that i cant make my own judgment about that idea



the thread topic was secular songs of praise
it is a song of praise, imho, but not yours

you are free to dislike the song, for whatever reason
as i presume others are free to mention songs that neither you or i like
with or without our judgment

i think the reason this song was mentioned, is that is a song of praise, juvenile or otherwise (many rock songs are more visceral and emotional-many more acknowleding sexuality, sometimes far more graphically and in sexist fashion)

this song is , indeed, so immature, designed to be outrageous, 
it is funny, imho, and tongue in cheek, not immoral in any way



as for empty minded, there are so many empty minded lyrics i cant say-hot corn cold corn ......or songs of praise like white lightening, again appealing to, and most imprtantly, acknowledging , human foibles and base instincts-

what i do find, is that in this thread, there seems to be perceived an overlay between the topic, apart from any religous or moral considerations, which is what secular means, and  others feeling that songs of praise, as a term, somehow is elevated or literally, sacred.

Perhaps to some songs of praise can only be related to the spiritual or religion, because others associate them in this context.


which is making this a touchy subject obviously

----------


## OldGus

> to each his own
> i didnt think 'morality', within reason was the issue,


 O.K., exchange the references of morality with those of 'maturity'. Does that make sense? It is in praise of a thing rather than a person, persons are not 'things'.

----------


## stevedenver

i dunno 
i like "little deuce coupe"
LOL

i understand your point,
i just think its a little priggish

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## OldGus

Pretty much everyone I've been around at length has demonstrated hypocrisy in some form, myself included. I say things that are immature sometimes and will try to correct myself rather that saying it's O.K. because others do it too. That why in religion we look to Gods example and not mans for comparison. Half of what I am saying may sound pompous to you but when I admit my wrong there is balance. We strive for perfection amd come up short. Life is for learning and improving and people are allowed to change their minds. That being said I think there are a ton of songs more perverted than the one you referenced and it is commonplace along with other things I think you would agree are immoral in popular music these days. It's a real problem, your ear canal goes straight to your brain.

----------


## stevedenver

gus 
in utmost sincerity and respect for you and your post, 
i do not beleive that the lowest common denominator should always be accepted
otoh, i do acknowledge that societally, things do change, 
and i do not try to push them away, but rather , try to take them in stride, and without too much concern, for the most part

i find humor, and honesty, in acknowledgment of human "foiblels", which, in no small way, is exactly what you , i think, are pointing out

theres another song, "hell on heels", which might well objectify men as wallets with legs, or, alternatively may praise the guile and beauty of women, who understand and manipulate men's baser sides-it doesnt offend me, its part of the world, 

in any case, i appreciate and understand your point

----------


## billkilpatrick

in praise of secular values without (i trust) addling those who find similar values elsewhere:

----------

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

in terms of criteria, what i had in mind when initiating this thread was to find a list of songs composed and written in praise of the natural world - the nature of things - without a reference to one or other of the many, many, many religions we've devised throughout the history of mankind.   "gospel" has its own table here at the cafe and i thought the existentialists might like to gather 'round a table to have a hearty sing-a-long of their own as well.

having said that, "little deuce coup" by the beach boys definitely qualifies as a song of praise:

----------

stevedenver

----------


## jaycat

> How many here have that first Fugs album. We actually had them at the New Penelope Coffeehouse in Montreal. Ah, Sunflower, Weary of Time, Swinburne Stomp


Oh of course I still have all their stuff. The song referred to is one of the great sing-a-longs ever.

Never saw the group but I did see Ed Sanders solo in the 70s. Unfortunately he had Allen Ginsberg in tow, who took over the show with a 45-minute rendition of "Om."

----------

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

i saw the "fugs" at the "dom" once in the east village.  once was enough - attitude: ten out of ten ... music: zippety-do-dah.

----------


## billkilpatrick

ripe for a mandolin version:

----------


## M.Marmot

Home Grown Tomatoes _ Guy Clarke

----------


## M.Marmot

In many ways - i find this thread bizarre.

I don't have a problem with it, as such, i suppose i'm just trying to understand the idea of 'praise' here in particular.

If it boils down to songs about stuff people appreciate - i dont know - that don't really seem enough for me... after all if thats all it is a good ninety per cent of songs are 'praise' songs. It'd be harder to find songs non-praisey 

I was going to post 'The Mountain' by Steve Earle, but it mentions God in passing and ghosts - not really secular then even if i 'believe' the theme of the song is in praise of secular, something lost - some sort of lost nobility. 

I suppose you could probably substitute 'My Old Friend the Blues' if you had to... thats about as straight up as it gets. 

(And are praise songs always happy songs - surely plaintif songs are praise songs too? Otherwise i'm well out of order)




Heres another one of Mr Clarkes while i'm mulling it over

----------

Marty Henrickson

----------


## M.Marmot

Always trust your Cape - Guy Clarke

'A leap of fate'? 

Heck - is this secular or not?

Now i'm confused

----------

Beanzy

----------


## M.Marmot

Caravan of Love - The Housemartins

Could'nt resist.

----------


## billkilpatrick

what i had in mind at the start were songs which could be considered as hymns in praise of nature as it is - the true nature of things - rather than a gift from some patrimonial figure in the sky ... "something out there." 

having said that - as long as we don't say anything to antagonize someone's religious beliefs or go against the cafe's guidelines ... have a ball!

----------


## M.Marmot

I suppose that those were mostly rhetorical mullings on my part

'Have a ball' - that i will do.

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick

great choice ... 

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/m/ma...street_crd.htm

----------


## OldSausage

Oh, well, check this out - from Hai-Ting Chin via Phil Plait:



Phil's article is here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...ratically.html

----------

billkilpatrick, 

stevedenver

----------


## Beanzy

:Smile:

----------


## David Lewis

Skating away on the thin ice of a new day. Jethro Tull.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> Skating away on the thin ice of a new day. Jethro Tull.

----------


## stevedenver

heres one for Gus

Zippidy Do Da

indeed a song of secular praise, and guaranteed not to offend....well almost.......give it time .......

----------


## billkilpatrick

> heres one for Gus
> 
> Zippidy Do Da
> 
> indeed a song of secular praise, and guaranteed not to offend....well almost.......give it time .......

----------


## stevedenver

that was a great version you posted Bill!

59th street bridge song (Feeling Groovy) simon and garfunkle

----------


## OldGus

> heres one for Gus
> 
> Zippidy Do Da
> 
> indeed a song of secular praise, and guaranteed not to offend....well almost.......give it time .......


 You trolling me, Steve? Let's not forget it was a moderator that deleted your post and called it inappropriate before I had anything to say about it. Trolling is against the forums guidelines along with other inappropriate behavior. I said I agreed with him and thought your post was childish. I can say the same thing about this one as you are not being forthright or honest. They say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. If you weren't intending to offend you wouldn't be name dropping and exaggerating the matter in this mocking way. I'd just say let it go, it's last weeks sewage, but it's in your hands, lol.

----------


## stevedenver

wow gus, I wasn't trolling at all, 
I thought this was indeed a very pure form of secular praise
and you made that abundantly clear as your point of view

don't you like the song?

----------


## OldGus

I'm fine with the song, it seemed to me you were implying it would take something extreme(sarcasm) not to offend me but it still probably would, which is trolling, or baiting, a response. The "well almost..give it time..." remark is what I take to indicate trolling and that you expected to cause discourse with your statement. Why would you include that remark if you are not trolling?

----------


## bookmn

Boz Scaggs, _I'll Be Long Gone_ seems affirmative and inspirational..

I'll send you my best 
Of regards and the rest
I'll leave up to your own sense of time

Yes I'm gonna get up and make my life shine
I'm gonna get up and make my life shine
I've made up my mind... to make my life shine

----------


## stevedenver

Around here, it seems to me, everything offends somebody at some point. That was the point of the comment.  Not aimed at you, or so I believed when I wrote it.  Just was waiting for some comment from someone about the Uncle Remus association or something.

I thought it was as much of a secular, neutral a tune, right on the money with the topic,  praising a sunny outlook on life as I could think of. 

A happy thought, that's all! And one I thought would even pass your high moral standards, maturity and judgment, and that solely was the point of using your name. You take things entirely too seriously and without humor or perspective, imho. 

Again no offense was meant.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> Boz Scaggs, _I'll Be Long Gone_ seems affirmative and inspirational..
> 
> I'll send you my best 
> Of regards and the rest
> I'll leave up to your own sense of time
> 
> Yes I'm gonna get up and make my life shine
> I'm gonna get up and make my life shine
> I've made up my mind... to make my life shine


thanks - haven't heard that in ages - good song:

----------


## jaycat

That whole Boz Scaggs album (his first) is a revelation; one that I listen to often, 40 years on. I never would have thought of I'll Be Long Gone as a song of praise (it's really a goodbye song), but I definitely see your point, bookie. I guess Look What I Got from the same album might meet the same criteria.

----------


## OldGus

_<post removed. baiting>_

Best the two of you take your argument private. Use the PM function as we're going to host this further from the two of you.

----------


## stevedenver

_<post removed. baiting>_

Best the two of you take your argument private. Use the PM function as we're going to host this further from the two of you.

----------


## bookmn

> I never would have thought of I'll Be Long Gone as a song of praise (it's really a goodbye song), but I definitely see your point, bookie.


You're right, of course, but I've started to think of it as a "goodbye" to not just a bad relationship, but to any of the choices, regrets, bad habits or general darkness that keeps us from 'letting our light shine!'

----------


## billkilpatrick

> You're right, of course, but I've started to think of it as a "goodbye" to not just a bad relationship, but to any of the choices, regrets, bad habits or general darkness that keeps us from 'letting our light shine!'


plus it has choir (secular) potential.

----------


## jaycat

> You're right, of course, but I've started to think of it as a "goodbye" to not just a bad relationship, but to any of the choices, regrets, bad habits or general darkness that keeps us from 'letting our light shine!'


Yeah, I like that.

I wonder what happened to old Boz. He started out so promising and then got swept away by the then-rising tides of Disco.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> Yeah, I like that.
> 
> I wonder what happened to old Boz. He started out so promising and then got swept away by the then-rising tides of Disco.


he still has hair ...

http://www.bozscaggs.com/

----------


## jaycat

> he still has hair ...


So do I, and I never sold my soul to disco. Not that disco ever came knocking on my door.

----------


## PJ Doland

OK. It mentions Jesus...but it's really praising beer.

----------


## Sterling

> Composed as a trombone ensemble piece and dedicated to the people of Japan, shortly after the tsunami.
> The music starts at 0:36  Main theme at 1:50  From there it builds, adding more musicians.  Some of the best brass players in the world are in this.
> 
> 
> This should have been the first song I thought of.  My high school band, with community members, played it in May.  It has been arranged for every kind of ensemble.  Music freely available here.


Wow! If that doesn't bring tears to your eyes, nothing will. Trombone ensembles are incredibly beautiful.  Trumpet ensembles, not so much( it pains me to say that, being a trumpet player!).

----------

billkilpatrick, 

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

what rhymes with "chocolate" and "wristwatch?"

http://www.examiner.com/article/swit...ational-anthem

----------


## TheBlindBard

If you want to get technical, "Religion," isn't only Christianity. When I first read the post, the poster asking for songs praising nature almost reminded me of some Pagan bands who sing about such things.
I also think that some of the Romantic era of poetry put to mandolin could sound rather nice, or even put into a song

----------


## TheBlindBard

Sorry about that, I didn't know this thread was 12 pages long. I was trying to reply to a certain person's message with my last post, but haven't done that before and it didn't quite work out. A contribution to the music:
The Eagles: The Last Resort
There is a little bit of questioning of Christianity in this one, but the lyrics are nice and the way the song is presented is very nice, very soft and kind of relaxed, almost a durge, lamenting what is lost.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> If you want to get technical, "Religion," isn't only Christianity. When I first read the post, the poster asking for songs praising nature almost reminded me of some Pagan bands who sing about such things.
> I also think that some of the Romantic era of poetry put to mandolin could sound rather nice, or even put into a song


i meant secular in the broadest sense - dryads, dakini and imaginary beings of every kind to be excluded.

don't know if dante rossetti can be classified as a romantic poet or not - with a capital "R" - but i posted this earlier and it's always a pleasure to hear kathleen ferrier:

----------


## M.Marmot

[QUOTE=billkilpatrick;1190287]

don't know if dante rossetti can be classified as a romantic poet or not - with a capital "R".

I'm no expert on poetry but i'd say he is very much a romantic poet... those pre-raphaelites could a peculiarly British type of romanticism but one i figure is wrung through with a very spiritual/christian sentiment - which makes him an unusual choice for inclusion here.

----------


## billkilpatrick

don't know if he was a believer or not but the poem, i think, is secular.

----------


## M.Marmot

It's certainly ambiguous enough to be read as a secular lyric... i'd not argue against it.

----------


## billkilpatrick

could be a secular hymn to nature:

----------


## Tommcgtx

How about Jethro Tull's album "Songs From the Wood"? Although some of the songs on that album are quite pagan (Cup of Wonder; Ring Out, Solstice Bells), so I don't know if that disqualifies them from being "secular". Personally, I happen to like non-secular "songs of praise", just my opinion.

----------

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

this is quintessential secular praise for whatever it is governing the universe - wikipedia is working overtime.  "string theory" is mando related, right?:

----------

Beanzy, 

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

stop! we have a winner!

----------


## Astabeth

Okay, I just read through 12 pages of this thread.  I like the They Might Be Giants and Grateful Dead ones mentioned.  And someone beat me to posting the Bob Ross one (I make my high school art students watch that each year).  What about Share the Land by the Guess Who?  And some more recent ones - Beautiful Day by U2 and this one:


It's been kind of overplayed on TV, but I think it fits.

----------

stevedenver

----------


## mlinkins

Just seeing this thread for the first time. I love it! (I have to say I am surprised to see that some challenge the idea of praise in a secular context. Why is that such a difficult concept?) I read many, but not all posts, so if this has been mentioned, I apologize...the Beatles' song Because (not my favorite song, but certainly fits the category). While I may be going beyond the scope of this thread, I wanted to mention that...for me...instrumental music generally seems to elicit a deeper, more profound response from me (than does music with lyrics). I know this is very subjective territory. One piece that strikes me as a very deep expression of praise is the Theme from Cinema Paradiso...a profoundly beautiful melody and harmonic structure from Ennio Morricone. It may sound strange to say that a wordless melody evokes a sense of praise, but for me it certainly does. here is a beautiful mandolin (bandolim) version by Hamilton de Holanda. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sw1qNf0G4g

----------

Astro

----------


## mlinkins

I meant to embed the clip. Here it is.

----------

billkilpatrick, 

Petrus

----------


## Petrus

I presume Leonard Cohen's _Hallelujah_ has been mentioned here ... I haven't gone through all twelve pages.  There's about umpteen versions of it going around. I have about a dozen collected (Cohen, John Cale, Jeff Buckley, Bono, Rufus Wainwright, KD Lang, Willie Nelson, et al.)

----------


## Jeff Richards

How about this one, ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r5Sl6WouLU

----------


## billkilpatrick

> How about this one, ...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r5Sl6WouLU


almost.  apparently it's a baha'i song - lots of heavenly references, "atmosphere of abha" being the main give away:

http://glossary.bahaiq.com/words/allah-u-abha

----------


## Astro

> stop! we have a winner!


That was by far and away the scariest music video I have ever seen. It needs a warning not to view late at night as it for sure will creep you out and you wont get to sleep. I made that mistake and I'm still trying to shake it. I dont know what he is on but I'm staying away from it.

BTW, it was brilliant to include the subtitles for the lyrics.

Now, erasing all memories and going off to my happy place...

----------

billkilpatrick, 

M.Marmot

----------


## billkilpatrick

nothing ... (i repeat) - nothing will make me watch that video again.

i think it prudent to return to basics - love the "bright 'blessed' day and dark 'sacred' night" - mamma mia ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMocxKC1b3M

----------


## billkilpatrick

more to the point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R761V-SBGWE

----------


## Ellen T

I can't watch or grab videos on my POS 666, so I hope I am not duplicating any suggestions.  I copied these from various lyric sites, so the grammatical formats vary quite a bit -- I'm too lazy to tidy them.

Home on the Range

Oh, give me a home where the buffalo roam, 
Where the deer and the antelope play, 
Where seldom is heard a discouraging word 
And the skies are not cloudy all day. 

CHORUS Home, home on the range, 
Where the deer and the antelope play; 
Where seldom is heard a discouraging word 
And the skies are not cloudy all day. 

Where the air is so pure, the zephyrs so free, 
The breezes so balmy and light, 
That I would not exchange my home on the range 
For all of the cities so bright. 

The red man was pressed from this part of the West 
He's likely no more to return, 
To the banks of Red River where seldom if ever 
Their flickering camp-fires burn. 

How often at night when the heavens are bright 
With the light from the glittering stars 
Have I stood here amazed and asked as I gazed 
If their glory exceeds that of ours. 

Oh, I love these wild flowers in this dear land of ours 
The curlew I love to hear scream, 
And I love the white rocks and the antelope flocks 
That graze on the mountain-tops green. 

Oh, give me a land where the bright diamond sand 
Flows leisurely down the stream; 
Where the graceful white swan goes gliding along 
Like a maid in a heavenly dream. 


Shenandoah

Oh Shenandoah,
I long to see you,
Away you rolling river.
Oh Shenandoah,
I long to hear you,
Away, I'm bound away,
'cross the wide Missouri.

Oh Shenandoah,
I love your daughter,
Away, you rolling river.
For her I'd cross,
Your roaming waters,
Away, I'm bound away,
'Cross the wide Missouri.

'Tis seven years,
since last I've seen you,
Away, you rolling river.
'Tis seven years,
since last I've seen you,
Away, we're bound away,
'cross the wide Missouri.

Oh Shenandoah,
I long to hear you,
Away, you rolling river.
Oh Shenandoah,
I long to hear you,
Away, we're bound away,
'cross the wide Missouri.


Breezin' Along With the Breeze

I have been a rover since I was a child
No one to love or care for me
Knocked around all over, kinda grew up wild
My home's wherever I may be

Ain't no someone yearnin', wonderin' where I be
I'm gone, but no one's missin' me
Ain't no light a-burnin' ev'ry night for me
I'm like a bird that's flyin' free

I'm just breezin' along with the breeze
Trailin' the rails, roamin' the seas
Like the birdies that sing in the trees
Pleasin' to live, livin' to please

The sky is the only roof I have over my head
And when I'm weary, Mother Nature makes me a bed
I'm just goin' along as I please
Breezin' along with the breeze

I'm just breezin' along with the breeze
I'm trailin' the rails, roamin' the seas
Like the birdies that sing in the trees
I'm pleasin' to live and livin' to please

The sky is the only roof I have over my head
And when I'm weary, Mother Nature makes me a bed
I'm just goin' along as I please
Breezin' along with the breeze.



John Denver wrote this for one of the UN agencies in the mid-70s, so it is very anthemic and I think fits the category.

I Want to Live

There are children raised in sorrow
on a scorched and barren plain
there are children raised beneath the golden sun
There are children of the water, 
children of the sand 
and they cry out through the universe 
their voices raised as one 

I want to live, I want to grow 
I want to see, I want to know 
I want to share what I can give
I want to be, I want to live 

Have you gazed out on the ocean 
seen the breaching of a whale? 
Have you watched the dolphins frolic in the foam?
Have you heard the song the humpback hears 
five hundred miles away 
Telling tales of ancient history 
of passages and home

I want to live, I want to grow
I want to see, I want to know
I want to share what I can give
I want to be, I want to live 

For the worker and warrior, the lover and the liar
For the native and the wanderer in kind 
For the maker and the user and the mother and her son
I am looking for my family and all of you are mine 

We are standing all together 
face to face and arm in arm
We are standing on the treshold of a dream 
No more hunger, no more killing
no more wasting life away 
It is simply an idea 
and I know its time has come

I want to live, I want to grow
I want to see, I want to know
I want to share what I can give 
I want to be, 
I want to live, I want to grow
I want to see, I want to know
I want to share what I can give 
I want to be, I want to live
I want to live, I want to grow 
I want to see, I want to know 
I want to share what I can give 
I want to be, I want to live 
I want to live, I want to live


Switching to classical mode, has anyone listed Sibeliuis' Finlandia, Smetena's Ma Vlast, or Respighi's Pines of Rome?

This is such a great thread.

----------

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

perfect ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KlZuk5N2co

... and i like "the pines of rome" a lot - respighi was an interesting person - i especially like his arrangement of medieval songs.

----------

Ellen T

----------


## Russ Donahue

This has been a fun thread...thanks for starting it...

----------


## M.Marmot

> That was by far and away the scariest music video I have ever seen. It needs a warning not to view late at night as it for sure will creep you out and you wont get to sleep. I made that mistake and I'm still trying to shake it. I dont know what he is on but I'm staying away from it.
> 
> BTW, it was brilliant to include the subtitles for the lyrics.
> 
> Now, erasing all memories and going off to my happy place...


Bravo ... just, bravo.  :Disbelief:  :Coffee:

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## stevedenver

That trololo video was sort of a non-sequitur for me. Perhaps the Russian in the intro puts it into a weird context, but, I was not moved. 

Everything Eva Cassidy did was full of life and uplifting, with soul .

I too have loved the Respighi tune, and the Fountains of Rome as welljust a wonderful fanfare and sparkle to it (not to be confused with the fountains of wayne stacys mom-another song of praise LOL).  

I like Willis Alan Ramsey's Watermelon Man a great deal.
celebrates the joy, praise and anticipation of .....

youll have to find it yourself......

I also love Harvest Moon by Neil Young, also a wonderful song of love of being in the moment in the great moonlight with one you love.

----------

billkilpatrick, 

Ellen T

----------


## billkilpatrick

fair dues ... i suppose any love song that doesn't mention an imaginary friend or allude to some third party in the sky or wherever, is a song of praise:

----------

stevedenver

----------


## stevedenver

great post, love his D45-




I couldn't resist
this is Michael Hedges doing a great version of Willis Alan Ramsey's songs-both of these players are heros to me

.

----------


## High Lonesome Valley

Amazing that god-lessing humanism holding nature, called gaia in some circles, up as a persona to be praised is not considered religious, for the purposes of this thread and forum.

----------


## LongBlackVeil

> Amazing that god-lessing humanism holding nature, called gaia in some circles, up as a persona to be praised is not considered religious, for the purposes of this thread and forum.


I think it would be unfair to shut down this thread as there is a gospel section of the forum. If it was going to be shutdown it would have already been done

However, this seems like just a random grouping of songs, they don't really have anything in common. Could someone explain what a "secular song of praise", is? I don't get it, some of these songs don't even have words. How do you know they are praising anything? Not offended, just confused

----------


## billkilpatrick

reference the video at the start of the thread - a song expressing the joy and wonder of it all without alluding to "something up there" or attempting to proselytize for one of many organized religions.

i know this might be considered a hot potato for some but it's all done in good humor. 

... or as iris says:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80

----------


## TommyK

One of my favorites, "Seeing Nellie Home".  If you're from Alabama you may know it as "Quilting Party."
It's about love discovered, kept and grown.

My fave weddin' song, "Jambalaya".

----------


## stevedenver

> Amazing that god-lessing humanism holding nature, called gaia in some circles, up as a persona to be praised is not considered religious, for the purposes of this thread and forum.


well the distinction, if i understand your post, 
is that no one is holding up nature, and its praise,  as a deity (Gaia was a greek god of nature and earth as I recollect) , but simply as a part of joyful human existence.

----------

billkilpatrick, 

Ellen T

----------


## High Lonesome Valley

> well the distinction, if i understand your post, 
> is that no one is holding up nature, and its praise,  as a deity (Gaia was a greek god of nature and earth as I recollect) , but simply as a part of joyful human existence.


Really?  More like an intent to bait we who know of a much higher existence, according to the OP'er.  




> reference the video at the start of the thread - a song expressing the joy and wonder of it all without alluding to "something up there" or attempting to proselytize for one of many organized religions.
> 
> i know this might be considered a hot potato for some but it's all done in good humor.


With no apologies regarding my "organized religion", why don't you just ask the moderator to start an atheist forum so that you can feel free to pat each other on the back regarding your shallow efforts to proselytize to your own null atheology, without you forcibly heating my potato?

----------

FLATROCK HILL, 

Perry Babasin, 

Tommcgtx

----------


## Astro

> Really?  More like an intent to bait we who know of a much higher existence, according to the OP'er.  
> 
> 
> 
> With no apologies regarding my "organized religion", why don't you just ask the moderator to start an atheist forum so that you can feel free to pat each other on the back regarding your shallow efforts to proselytize to your own null atheology, without you forcibly heating my potato?



No need to bash the thread or anyone just because they believe in something different from you. Why go there ? I know a few atheists who are not shallow, that do not proselytize, and do not pat themselves on the back for their beliefs. Why generalize and slam a whole group of people? Your obvious assumption is that atheists are bad for some reason(for being atheists). Just like religious people, there are good ones and bad ones and everything in between. Far from "proselytizing", many atheists live in fear from being bashed for their beliefs so they often just keep quiet. 

I haven't seen anything held up as a persona in this thread that would nullify the intended premise.  None of the songs or posts slam religion. No one is forcing heating your potato. I can understand that this thread may not interest you. There are many threads that do not interest me and that I just skip.

I think one can be in an organized religion and contribute positively to this thread. And if one can't, why not just ignore the thread ?

----------

Beanzy, 

billkilpatrick, 

Ellen T, 

Mike Bunting, 

stevedenver, 

Tom Smart

----------


## billkilpatrick

high lonesome valley - i get the impression you would rather see this thread shut down - and if you continue to express your annoyance with it i expect the moderators will have no choice but to do so.   i'd ask you to please stop, however as i'd never heard of a song in praise of home grown tomatoes before and i'm sure there are more secular musical delights out there which await us in the future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWwyhCVBDg 

if you would care to contact me privately and just tell me all about it, please do.

----------


## Astro



----------

Marty Jacobson

----------


## John Garcia

"This land is your land" by Woody G. I'm surprised it hasnt been mentioned...


This Land Is Your Land
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island; 
From the redwood forest to the Gulf Stream waters 
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway, 
I saw above me that endless skyway: 
I saw below me that golden valley: 
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps 
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts; 
And all around me a voice was sounding: 
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling, 
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling, 
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting: 
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there 
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing." 
But on the other side it didn't say nothing, 
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people, 
By the relief office I seen my people; 
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking 
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me, 
As I go walking that freedom highway; 
Nobody living can ever make me turn back 
This land was made for you and me.

----------

Ellen T

----------


## stevedenver

[QUOTE=billkilpatrick;1073759]louis armstrong's version of "what a wonderful world" was brought to my attention recently but can you think of any other songs of joy and gladness which are devoid of specific religious references?  nat king cole's "nature boy" has a nice metaphysical flavor to it but is still secular.  can you think of any songs which herald man's scientific or engineering achievements? ... breakthroughs in medicine perhaps? ... woody guthrie was commissioned to write a song about the great coolie dam but has anyone ever written a song about jonas salk, for example - the man who discovered a cure for polio?

how about songs written about the majesty, wonder, etc., etc. of nature?





I thought it relevant to post the OP, to clarify the scope of this thread.

The world is not black and white, nor are one's beliefs necessarily at odds with those of or excluding other's,  nor are the areas of life and existence that make humans joyful and grateful to be alive, in love, or simply enjoying simple daily pleasures.

I like this Shaker dancing song, Simple Gifts.  It epitomizes my thoughts on secular songs of praise, on compromise and open mindedness and acceptance, but was not written as a secular tune by the last line, I would venture.  




'Tis the gift to be simple, 'tis the gift to be free
 'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,
 And when we find ourselves in the place just right, 
   'Twill be in the valley of love and delight.

 When true simplicity is gain'd, 
   To bow and to bend we shan't be asham'd,
 To turn, turn will be our delight, 
   Till by turning, turning we come 'round right.

Later, additional or alternative verses:

'Tis the gift to be loved and that love to return,
 'Tis the gift to be taught and a richer gift to learn,
 And when we expect of others what we try to live each day,
 Then we'll all live together and we'll all learn to say,


'Tis the gift to have friends and a true friend to be,
 'Tis the gift to think of others not to only think of "me",
 And when we hear what others really think and really feel,
 Then we'll all live together with a love that is real.[

The Earth is our mother and the fullness thereof,
Her streets, her slums, as well as stars above.
Salvation is here where we laugh, where we cry,
Where we seek and love, where we live and die.

When true liberty is found,
 By fear and by hate we will no more be bound.
 In love and in light we will find our new birth
 And in peace and freedom, redeem the Earth.


Yet another alternative verse:

'Tis a gift to be simple, 'tis a gift to be fair,
 'Tis a gift to wake and breathe the morning air.
 And each day we walk on the path that we choose,
 'Tis a gift we pray we never shall lose.

----------

aphillips, 

billkilpatrick, 

Ellen T

----------


## billkilpatrick



----------


## High Lonesome Valley

> high lonesome valley - i get the impression you would rather see this thread shut down - and if you continue to express your annoyance with it i expect the moderators will have no choice but to do so.   i'd ask you to please stop, however as i'd never heard of a song in praise of home grown tomatoes before and i'm sure there are more secular musical delights out there which await us in the future:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWwyhCVBDg 
> 
> if you would care to contact me privately and just tell me all about it, please do.


Seems like your ilk doesn't mind throwing a hot potato, but when someone throws it back you becoming very pharisaical and FB-like.

----------

stevedenver

----------


## billkilpatrick

bob dylan recorded a song of praise about jonas salk ... not so much a song as in "tra-la-la-la" but more a musical tribute:

http://grooveshark.com/#!/search/son...lan+Jonas+Salk

----------


## billkilpatrick

great secular song and some not-so-great 70's survivalist attire from "kansas:"

----------


## Beanzy

Never mind the clothes look at that bad hair!... which reminded me of this Oliver one with daft lyrics from Hair


Good morning starshine
The earth says, "Hello"
You twinkle above us
We twinkle below

Good morning starshine
You lead us along
My love and me as we sing
Our early morning singing song

Gliddy glup gloopy
Nibby nabby noopy la la la lo lo
Sabba sibby sabba

Nooby abba nabba le le lo lo
Tooby ooby walla nooby abba nabba
Early morning singing song

Good morning starshine
You lead us along
My love and me as we sing
Our early morning singing song

Gliddy glup gloopy
Nibby nabby noopy la la la lo lo
Sabba sibby sabba

Nooby abba nabba le le lo lo
Tooby ooby walla nooby abba nabba
Early morning singing song

Singing a song, humming a song
Singing a song, loving a song
Laughing a song

Sing the song, sing the song
Song the sing
Song, song, song, sing
Sing, sing, sing, song

----------

billkilpatrick, 

Ellen T, 

stevedenver

----------


## Beanzy

and while still in that realm of camp daftness that is the musical Hair;


I got life, mother
I got laughs, sister
I got freedom, brother
I got good times, man

I got crazy ways, daughter
I got million-dollar charm, cousin
I got headaches and toothaches
And bad times too
Like you

I got my hair
I got my head
I got my brains
I got my ears
I got my eyes
I got my nose
I got my mouth
I got my teeth
I got my tongue
I got my chin
I got my neck
I got my tits
I got my heart
I got my soul
I got my back
I got my ass
I got my arms
I got my hands
I got my fingers
Got my legs
I got my feet
I got my toes
I got my liver
Got my blood

I got my guts (--I got my guts--)
I got my muscles (--muscles--)
I got life (--life--)
Life (--life--)
Life (--life--)
LIFE!

----------


## Ted Eschliman

We've given this thread an unarguably long leash. For the most part it's been cordial. However, we have strict guidelines about not talking religion and politics, and although most of the participants have been good to keep within that framework, it's virtually impossible to skirt about an issue by "not talking about an issue."

Time to move on. Gaia, agnosticism, atheism, secular humanism--there are plenty of other places on the internet to participate in these sorts of deep discussions outside of a forum focused on playing mandolin.

----------

Bill Snyder, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

High Lonesome Valley, 

Scott Tichenor, 

stevedenver, 

Timbofood, 

Tommcgtx

----------

