# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Loar alert

## JAK

1924 Lloyd Loar with virzi, #75701, at Grypon Stringed Instruments in Palo Alto, CA, $175,000. Looks like only two owners. No financial interest, just interest. Good description, history, and pictures at the Gryphon website.

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## carleshicks

here is a Link #This is the first Loar I have seen that has a sunburst that matches my '02 Master Model almost exactly. most of the Loars have a sunburst that is about an inch above the tailpiece but this one is lower. The back sunburst even matches, all this time I was wondering why Gibson was making a sunburst that didn't match the Loars that I have seen. I guess I just didn't see the right one.

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## Glassweb

Looks tasty to me... somebody out there go play it and let us know how it sounds!

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## f5loar

And at a bargin price! Well below market value for such beauty and power. Last Loar went for $200,000.

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## Jonathan James

Betcha this one doesn't last too long on the market...

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## Chris Baird

Its got some nice lines. Nice photography too (for a builder; lots of orthographically perpedicular shots).

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## Bill Snyder

> ...lots of orthographically perpedicular shots).


Hey be careful with that talk. This is a family friendly forum.

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## Darryl Wolfe

> Its got some nice lines. Nice photography too (for a builder; lots of orthographically perpedicular shots).


That mandolin has some features that are hard to describe, but typical of the 757xx group of mandos. This is 75701. I owned the 75709 Rybka/Williamson Loar at one time. It too had distinctive and graceful lines. Crisp scroll line, sharp, deep recurve, slightly "loose" scroll cutout

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## Darryl Wolfe

75709 (by Dan)

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## jasona

Man, that's a great looking mandolin!

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## OregonMike

> It too had distinctive and graceful lines. #Crisp scroll line, sharp, deep recurve, slightly "loose" scroll cutout


Hi Darryl - I'm always learning here, can you tell me how the old Master Models ended up with various scroll lines and cutouts?

I've seen the old F5 templates and assumed that dimensions would match within an 1/8" or so... (unless the patterns wear over time).

Do the scroll cutouts vary greatly based on who cut them, etc. and could that explain the consistency within batches?

Do factors in the binding work really affect the scroll line as well?

Thanks,

Mike
1916 A-0 Pumpkintop Paddlehead
1924 A-1 Blackface Snakehead
www.MusicMoose.org

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## Darryl Wolfe

In my opinion certain aspects of the scroll ridge and recurve area were hand done. A carving machine can only get you so close. The scroll cutout seem to vary only withing the width of the sawblade or two..say one person cuts on the inside the other on the inside

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## OregonMike

Thanks Darryl that makes more sense...

So, I've been thinking hard about this Loar and I've decided to save $20,000 and buy both of these instead so that I have a back-up Loar for the beach and campfires:

Gruhn Loar 1

Gruhn Loar 2

 Just kidding - but wow - these prices seem really good unless the links are from the early 90's. Amazing how much these depreciate once the label is scratched out. And who would do that - to 2 Loars?

Mike
1916 A-0 Pumpkintop Paddlehead
1924 A-1 Blackface Snakehead
www.MusicMoose.org

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## f5loar

Hey Dan, Do you have these 2 Gruhn photos in the archives?
Which ones are they?

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## danb

They both are "Scratchy", was Charlie's old "Shoplifted" Loar, which is #79833. I didn't have Gruhn's shots for that though, thanks for pointing them out. Darryl tells me Gruhn had it twice

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## OregonMike

Thanks Dan, Does Gruhn Loar #1 above also have a similar story?

Mike
1916 A-0 Pumpkintop Paddlehead
1924 A-1 Blackface Snakehead
www.MusicMoose.org

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## Fretbear

Mmmmm....Scratchy....

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## f5loar

What is confusing in these 2 Gruhn listings is in the first one he says it is like a March 31, 1924 Loar and in the 2nd one he says it is like a Dec. 1, 1924 Loar but when you compare grain patterns,etc you see they are indeed one and the same. Bottom line to be learned from this lesson: Don't believe everything you see and read from Gruhn's as the gospel in vintage instruments. Like others he can mistakes in speculations on 80 year old instruments.

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## danb

Yes, just to clarify again, those are two different listings of the same instrument. I believe it was Charlie Derrington that bought it the first time it was there!

Since then (this actually played out on the cafe) another owner solved the mystery of the serial number, you'll find a photo at the archive showing the defaced label removed to reveal the original serial number in pencil below

Many of us have had a chance to meet this mandolin in the last few years.. I played it at Gruhn's at the time of the second listing there, as well as at a festival. It has a virzi, but oddly enough sounds much more like one without. A very fine bluegrass machine.

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## chris

Dan. I bought scratchy the first time from Gruhns,then sold it to Charlie a while later. Scratchy did a whole lot of opening up and is great sounding.

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## Steven Stone

I played Scratchy while it was with Nick Forster on approval.

I loved its sound up the neck.

I never found out whether he bought it or not.

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## Darryl Wolfe

If my memory serves me correctly the first listing at Gruhns was sometime in the April to Oct 2002 timeframe. #That was while I was on assignment in Tennessee, working out of a hotel room and joined the Mandolincafe community making my first post on Loar anomolies. #

I thought $65K was a grand price as Loars were around $90-$100 at the time. #I do not know where Gruhn dreamed up the March 31 batch for it, because it was always obvious that it was a Dec 1 mando in the 798xx batch..even before the labels were carefully removed.

edit, well it says I joined in Feb 2003, Scott must have allowed non-member posts or something back then.

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## pjlama

I found two bargan Loars', a 23' and a 24' both good deals check it out http://www.wexerguitars.com/ one is a refin and the other all there for only 90 and 140. Anyone grabs either of these my finders fee is getting to play it. I can't believe the value of these. I was working in a music store nine years ago and got one and sold it for $1200, I had no idea, didn't play mando at the time. It's actually a good story and deserves it's own thread someday when I feel like beating myself up.

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## thallenbeck

I went to Gryphon a couple of Saturdays ago and they were kind enough to let me play the Loar for a few minutes. It was a real pleasure. Lots of clarity.

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## sgarrity

You sold a Loar F5 for $1200? You gotta tell that story....

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## Scotti Adams

My father and I are on the trail of a supposed Loar that a little ol lady owns...yea..weve all heard that story before...anyway....She says its just like the one Bill Monroe played...and shes the one that mentioned the name Lloyd Loar....she also has a '36 shaded top Martin herringbone.....time will tell.

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## Glassweb

May the force be with you...

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## Rroyd

I remember that little old lady! #As I recall, she sold Barney Fife a car some years ago. #

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## f5loar

I remember her. I was in Mandolin Bros in 1980 when this sweet little old lady walked in the store and left with a brand new Gibson F5L mandolin and a Mandolin Bros. Custom exclusive Martin Vintage Series 1936 Shade Top Herringbone guitar. Set here back about 6 grand at the time.

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