# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Soundboard Woods

## Max Girouard

Hi, I am putting together a list of all the tonewoods I have seen used for soundboards on mandolins.  What others am I missing or have you seen used elsewhere?  This will help me research other woods I will be using for a future experiment.  Here is my list so far:

Sitka Spruce 
Engleman Spruce
Red Spruce
Carpathian spruce
Western Red Cedar
Port Orford Cedar
Alaskan yellow Cedar
Douglas Fir
Redwood

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## banJoe

I have heard of Lutz being used as a top wood.

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## Paul Hostetter

I think it's best to stick to scientific, binomial names as a point of departure for a list like this. We know and accept that Sitka is Picea sitchenensis, for example, so common names will do most of the time. 

Lutz is not really a separate species of spruce, it's a hybrid of Picea sitchensis (Sitka) and Picea glauca (white spruce) from a specific area in BC. And possibly Picea engelmannii. Check this: http://www.metla.fi/archive/forest/1.../msg00113.html All the operative European spruces, whether they're from the Carpathians, France, Italy or Sweden are of one species: Picea abies. North America has much more variety. But it's wise to check think species before rattling off too many different spruces, when they're all just site-specific variants of one spruce.

There is a right way to spell Engelmann:


Schmidt and Harmony made millions of mandolins with birch tops.

Martin made many with koa tops.

Mahogany has been used extensively.

White pine (Pinus strobus) can be used. And so can White Fir (Abies concolor), when you can find it.

Likewise Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii), which quite a few folks have good success with. 

I just finished setting up a rather nice Regal the other day that had an aluminum cone. Um...not quite a tonewood.

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## JeffD

> I just finished setting up a rather nice Regal the other day that had an aluminum cone. Um...not quite a tonewood.


 :Laughing:  I splorted my coffee on that one.

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## Spruce

I'd add:

White Fir (Abies concolor)
European Silver Fir (Abies alba)
White Spruce (Picea glauca)
Noble Fir (Abies procera)

...and it's "Engelmann".

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## Max Girouard

Engelmann......got it!

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## Steve Sorensen

Anyone tried Deodar Cedar (Cedrus deodara)?
Steve

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## Paul Hostetter

Someone was asking about deodar cedar recently because they said they had some. It's extremely hard to find, so whether it works or not is rather difficult to say. As with any tonewood, the species is but a small fraction of the picture. Wood is not a homogenous substance. Only a small percentage of what looks to be OK is actually good enough to make a good sounding instrument.

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## Spruce

> It's extremely hard to find....


There are a _lot_ of unexploited conifers that I think would make excellent tops, but you just can't find the stuff unless you go get it yourself...

_Abies magnifica_ (California Red Fir) comes to mind...
I split one up about 25 years ago, and it was _stunning_...

Pure white wood, with a nice weight and look...

Plus, it grows large, which makes it a candidate for cellos and basses....

The aforementioned Noble and true White Firs are two others that would be fun to see come on the market...

All three could be very useful woods for mando makers....

If I was 25 again I'd jump all over those 3...    :Wink:

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## Paul Hostetter

OK, in your dotage perhaps you could jump on just one? Maybe two, then?

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## Spruce

If they grew (and blew over in a windstorm) in my back yard...   :Wink:

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## Rick Turner

What's with seeing it "albies" as well as "abies"?

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## Paul Hostetter

We live in a post-literate world. You say albies, I say abies—let's call the whole thing off.

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## Dave Hanson

Plywood ?

Dave H

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## whistler

Lime _Tilia spp_ (known as basswood in US) is used extensively as a soundboard wood in Portugal, for various instruments, including _cavaquinho_, _guitarra Portuguesa__viola Braguesa_ and _bandolim_ (mandolin).

Fylde's 'Single Malt' mandolins use reclaimed Oregon pine for their soundboards - but according to various online dictionaries, Oregon pine is just an alternative name for Douglas Fir _Pseudotsuga menziesii_.

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## Paul Hostetter

European lime, T. cordata, is really different stuff than basswood in the US, T. americana. The American iteration was a standard component in cheap Chicago things, necks and plywood mostly, but is a weak, mushy wood, and dreadfully dead tonally.

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## John Arnold

Ted Davis cut some Eastern Hemlock (Tsuga canadensis) mandolin tops that should make outstanding instruments. Martin built a few guitars with Western Larch (Larix occidentalis) tops, but I haven't seen it used for mandolins.



> The American iteration was a standard component in cheap Chicago things, necks and plywood mostly, but is a weak, mushy wood, and dreadfully dead tonally.


Probably why Gibson used it for kerfings. :Smile:

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## Paul Hostetter

> Probably why Gibson used it for kerfings.


We're probably in the upper stratosphere of what's possibly important to tone, but I think there's something to be said for kerfing that's soft and sonically out of the way. It also bends more reliably than other woods cut the same way, such as mahogany and cedar and willow.

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## Rick Turner

Indian sitar tops are usually made of "Tun"...cedrela toona, very closely related to "Spanish cedar"...cedrela odorata, used almost interchangeably with mahogany by Martin for guitar necks.   I've made uke backs and sides with it, and it's fine, and I'll try it as a uke top soon.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Quote -_"Plywood ? "_ . You beat me to it Dave,but which species would you recomend ie. interior / exterior / marine / birch faced etc. ?,
          Ivan :Laughing:

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## Ivan Kelsall

May i ask what 'future experiment' you are planning ?,
                                                                        Ivan :Chicken:

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## Max Girouard

I am going to be building a handful of mandolins.  Each one will have a different soundboard wood while the backs, sides and neck will be maple.  I am going to try to build them as exact as possible so I can see what difference I will get in sound.  I know that there are so many variables within each piece of wood not just from species to species but within a species itself.  So far I have only built using Sitka and WRC and they sound very different from each other so I would like to check out some other woods.  I am just having trouble deciding which woods to use at this point.  I think I might try all different types of spruce or different types of cedar.  Not sure yet though.

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## resophil

Such a proposed exercise would have limited use and would certainly hold no interest for me at all! When you are finished, you will have x number of instruments representing x number of rim assemblies, x backs, x tops, x necks (and the fastening to body therof) and x number of variables (to the umpteenth power) 

The only constant will be the hands, eyes, and ears that built them. Why not concentrate there...?

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## DougC

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned American Walnut or Cherry. Don't know the species names.

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## sunburst

Go ahead, Max. Despite resophil's warnings you'll learn a lot about the characteristic sound of various wood species used as tops.
I once built two mandos as identically as I could, same woods from the same sources, same measurements, same everything as nearly as I could. They sounded the same.
Later, I did the same thing only one had a red spruce top and the other had sitka. They sounded _almost_ the same with subtle differences. In that situation I feel like I can attribute some, if not most of the sound difference to the top wood. If you control all the other variables as closely as you can the differences you hear will teach you about different top woods... at least the ones you use, but generalizations about species will still be questionable because of the natural variation in wood.

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## Eric Foulke

I remember reading an article a while ago about Martin building some guitars using Larch (Larix) for the soundboards, they seemed to be quite happy with the results. Nothing seems to have come of it.

Of course this reminds me of the Monty Python skit-  "And now, number 4, the Larch.....the...Larch."

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## Paul Hostetter

> Indian sitar tops are usually made of "Tun"...cedrela toona,


I would love to get my hands on a bunch of this. It's like super-premium Spanish cdar: harder, stronger, more resonant.




> ...very closely related to "Spanish cedar"...cedrela odorata, used almost interchangeably with mahogany by Martin for guitar necks.   I've made uke backs and sides with it, and it's fine, and I'll try it as a uke top soon.


Interestingly, a classic wood combination for guitars, vihuelas, arpas and guitarrónes is sides back and neck of Cedrela odorata, with a top of tacote, Verbesina fastigiata. Tacote kind of looks like balsa, but it has fantastic tone.

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## Paul Hostetter

> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned American Walnut or Cherry. Don't know the species names.


Cherry is Prunus avium, walnut is Juglans spp, usually J. nigra. But we don't have a lot of confusion between common names and scientific identity. 

I wish there were more instruments using these woods as top material (that is what we're discussing, right?)  :Confused: 

The few cherry-topped guitars I've seen have been basically equivalent to the birch Schmidt and Harmony/Stella things, i.e., rather uninspiring. By contrast, I've played several guitars, flattops and archtops, with tops of walnut that were really terrific. But echoing Phil's comment above, you don't really know a lot until you build dozens if not hundreds of instruments using a wood. Just one example tells you more about that instrument than about the type of wood used for the top.

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## steve V. johnson

Paul, you mention that mahogany has been used "extensively" for mandolin tops, but I can't think of any I've seen in quite a while (tho that may not be much of a metric...).

Could you (et al wood mavens) tell us more about mahogany topped mandolin (-family) instruments, and maybe why there don't seem to be many around now?

When I run across all-mahogany guitars I'm always pleased with the sounds.

Thanks,

stv

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## sunburst

I scanned through the whole thread and didn't see a mention of koa (_Acacia koa_). Perhaps I missed where it was mentioned before, but if not add it to the list of woods that have been used for mandolin tops.

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## Paul Hostetter

> I scanned through the whole thread and didn't see a mention of koa (_Acacia koa_).


Post #3.

I am realizing, in response to Steve's post, that most of the mahogany tops I've seen are, like the Stradolin, 3-ply laminated:

 

There are a few solid ones, though:

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## Max Girouard

> Go ahead, Max. Despite resophil's warnings you'll learn a lot about the characteristic sound of various wood species used as tops.
> I once built two mandos as identically as I could, same woods from the same sources, same measurements, same everything as nearly as I could. They sounded the same.
> Later, I did the same thing only one had a red spruce top and the other had sitka. They sounded _almost_ the same with subtle differences. In that situation I feel like I can attribute some, if not most of the sound difference to the top wood. If you control all the other variables as closely as you can the differences you hear will teach you about different top woods... at least the ones you use, but generalizations about species will still be questionable because of the natural variation in wood.


Thanks John, that is exactly what I am doing.  I know that making generalizations about different top woods would be questionable due to the variations.  My plan is to learn from this exercise and seeing the subtle differences in the woods used.  I have used the same sitka on two mandolins and they sound very close.  I have also used WRC together and they sound very close to each other but the WRC compared to the sitka sound different to me.  This is even though I have tried to build them all exactly the same.

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## John Arnold

> Cherry is Prunus avium


Black cherry (Prunus serotina) is the primary source for cherry lumber in the US.



> the WRC compared to the sitka sound different to me.


That is a big difference in density and stiffness. You may discover just as much difference when using the denser softwoods....Douglas fir, red spruce, larch, etc.
I'll throw out a couple more.....lodgepole pine and Ponderosa pine.

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## Ivan Kelsall

That's a whole new career you've got there Max regarding the amount of work you're intending to put in. I'm with John Hamlett - go for it !. You'll have to closely measure all the parameters that you want to be 'constant'. I'm not a luthier,but one thing i'd explore before you make 'x' number of instruments as a whole,is to figure out if you could produce an instrument on which you could 'interchange' the tops. I know that you couldn't have them all 'side by side',but it would give you an insight as to which sounded
the 'best'. The 'variables' in doing as you suggest are so many that i'm not sure that they would ulitmately give you the information that your require,purely for the Mandolin tops. I'm sure that JH & many other luthiers will shoot me down in flames for this suggestion - but could it be done ?. At least you would have an absolute 'constant' body & neck (well,apart from the glue - as constant as you'll ever get) on which to install the various tops. I think that you'd also need to explore the possibility of a good 'bolt on neck' for ease of removal,
                                             Ivan  :Chicken:

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## whistler

> European lime, T. cordata, is really different stuff than basswood in the US, T. americana. The American iteration was a standard component in cheap Chicago things, necks and plywood mostly, but is a weak, mushy wood, and dreadfully dead tonally.


I was aware that they were different, but perhaps not _that_ different.  Interesting, as the trees are quite hard to tell apart from the outside (_T. Americana_ is sometimes planted as an ornamental in the UK).  As far as I know all three of the European species - Small leaved lime _T. cordata_, Large leaved lime _T. platyphyllos_ and Common lime _T. x europaea_ (probably arising as a hybrid of the other two) yield similar wood.

Another interesting point: The flowers of the European limes make a good tea, which calms the nerves and eases digestion, whilst the flowers of the American species are mildly poisonous, causing nausea and headaches.

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## sunburst

> ...one thing i'd explore before you make 'x' number of instruments as a whole,is to figure out if you could produce an instrument on which you could 'interchange' the tops... I'm sure that JH & many other luthiers will shoot me down in flames for this suggestion - but could it be done ?


It could be done. Dave Cohen, the person I know who has done the most truly scientific study on mandolin sound, built a mandolin with a removable back so he could test different bracing patterns and so forth in the same mandolin.
It would be a little different in that there would not be the direct listening comparison and so some way to measure differences would help. 
As we build more and more instruments we start to learn what it is we are hearing in them. In my own mandolins, I'm beginning to think I can differentiate what sounds I'm hearing that are more influenced by the top or the back, and by building more of them I might be able to more reliably do that. If Max uses similar materials and measurements (including stiffness and mass measurements) for everything but the tops he'll be able to directly compare the sounds of the tops with minimal 'noise' from the rest of the instrument. The 'experiment' will be a learning experience for him but may not be something he can report on and educate the rest of us. It doesn't matter though, as I've said before, we have to figure most of this stuff out for ourselves.

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## sunburst

> ...Interesting, as the trees are quite hard to tell apart from the outside (_T. Americana_ is sometimes planted as an ornamental in the UK).


What is it about human nature that makes us 'need' to import a tree as an ornamental to a place where there are already three species that look the same? One of the courses I took en-rout to my rather superfluous biology degree was plant pathology. A lot of the worst plant diseases in many places are the result of human meddling; bringing in something from somewhere else as though what's already there is not good enough.

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## Paul Hostetter

> Black cherry (Prunus serotina) is the primary source for cherry lumber in the US.


Whoa, you’re right. I was on the wrong continent!




> I'll throw out a couple more.....lodgepole pine and Ponderosa pine.


I've been looking at Ponderosa for years and have never seen a trace that passed muster as a tonewood. Have you really used it, or even seen it used for tops? Where did it come from?

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## Rick Turner

The Aussies have cedrela toona also, and they call it red cedar.   I don't know if the characteristics are exactly like the Indian stuff or not.

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## Rick Turner

Ahhh, one of the issues for the pro builders here is "Can I sell it?", and believe me, it's really hard to sell what people haven't been used to seeing as so many listen with their eyes, not their ears.

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## Paul Hostetter

> The Aussies have cedrela toona also, and they call it red cedar. I don't know if the characteristics are exactly like the Indian stuff or not.


Here's our own Rob Grant, with a blown down Ozzian red cedar, now properly listed as Toona ciliata. Unfortunately it was on state forest land and had to be left to rot. Wah!



It's exactly the same stuff. Here's the range of this species:

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## sunburst

Blown down? From the looks of the picture, whatever blew that tree down was using a chain saw(?).

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## Jim Nollman

See someone mentioning white fir. I have several big specimens (2 to 3 feet diameter) growing wild on my property. The tree has one trait that makes me think it may not be very good for a mandolin top.  I sometimes use it for firewood. Whereas Doug Fir and red cedar splits cleanly into boards, the grain of White Fir is not straight, and it takes a monumental effort  to split it with a maul and wedge.

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## Paul Hostetter

> Blown down? From the looks of the picture, whatever blew that tree down was using a chain saw(?).


Here's Rob's comment accompanying the photo (2006):




> Recently (three weeks ago) we experienced the effects of a severe cat.4 cyclone named "Larry." Larry left all sorts of surprises exposed around the place. Here's a photo of one of those "surprises" that was knocked over alongside of our main access roads to the coast...


There are the remains of a spectacular blow-down near my house, one big doug fir went across one road and another growing right next to it went down across another road that my road tees into, but if you saw them now, it would look like a chainsaw was, ahem, at the root of it. It was all wind.

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## John Arnold

> I've been looking at Ponderosa for years and have never seen a trace that passed muster as a tonewood. Have you really used it, or even seen it used for tops? Where did it come from?


I used Ponderosa on some of my first guitars, cut from shelving boards. Here is one of those tops:



I also used PP for bracewood. 

Here is a shot of the Ted Davis hemlock mandolin top:



Another wood I have tried is incense cedar. I built this OM in 1985, and until a couple of years ago, I thought I had the only guitars with incense cedar tops.






> Fir is not straight, and it takes a monumental effort to split it with a maul and wedge.


Here is some nice white fir that I cut from construction lumber:

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## j. condino

John:

I've got some of that exact same hemlock from Ted; it rings like crazy. Have you actually built a mandolin out of it yet? Do you know where he cut it from? I've been really curious, but have't given it a try yet because I have so much of his red spruce right now that I've been sticking with a known result.  As much as I don't always like it, Rick made a good point. I can build a nice guitar out of a lot of nice sounding and looking rather obscure woods, but the market will usually pay double or more if it is built out of red spruce and Brazilian rosewood.... 

I've got about a dozen  eastern hemlocks in my back yard here in Asheville that all appear to have the white fuzzy bug blight (technical term???)  and have been told by an arborist that they won't last a decade.


j.
www.condino.com

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## Bill Snyder

The first mandolin I built (a flat top) has a longleaf, yellow pine top. Sounds pretty good and it has held up fine for 6 years.

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## steve V. johnson

> Ahhh, one of the issues for the pro builders here is "Can I sell it?", and believe me, it's really hard to sell what people haven't been used to seeing as so many listen with their eyes, not their ears.


I was offered, and accepted, a nice discount on an instrument to be built with tonewoods that the luthier said his fancier clients wouldn't accept because it wasn't pretty enough.   I told him I'd called him because of the sound of his instruments and I didn't care for the figure in the wood as long as I got the sound.  He built two instruments from the batch, kept one for himself and I got the other.  I'm happy.

stv

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## steve V. johnson

> Post #3.
> 
> I am realizing, in response to Steve's post, that most of the mahogany tops I've seen are, like the Stradolin, 3-ply laminated:
> 
>  
> 
> There are a few solid ones, though:


Thanks, Paul.  It never occurred to me that those older ones were laminates.   I have a vague memory of the Canadian co., Garrison offering an all-mahogany mandolin-family instrument...

stv

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## tree

I've got about a dozen eastern hemlocks in my back yard here in Asheville that all appear to have the white fuzzy bug blight (technical term???) 

*hemlock woolly adelgid*

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/pe...lock/hwa05.htm

Because of their habitat, dead/dying hemlocks are going to be a thorn in the side of trout anglers for the foreseeable future . . .

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## Ben Milne

Going to stick King Billy's hand up here for a mention. King William "Pine" is another quality Australian tonewood. In addition to my own acoustic mando, king billy has been utilised by several builders including Rob Grant, Peter Coombes etc.

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## whistler

I've been offered some local (Welsh) douglas fir.  It seems to be received wisdom that lutherie-grade softwoods just don't grow in the British Isles (with the exception of yew, which is only _technically_ a softwood).  I haven't seen the wood yet - I don' think it's been felled yet.

Anyway, I think this might be fodder for a new thread.

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## Eric Hanson

Clark, 
 What would be the reason for the hemlock being a nuisance to the trout fishermen?

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## Spruce

> See someone mentioning white fir. I have several big specimens (2 to 3 feet diameter) growing wild on my property. The tree has one trait that makes me think it may not be very good for a mandolin top.  I sometimes use it for firewood. Whereas Doug Fir and red cedar splits cleanly into boards, the grain of White Fir is not straight, and it takes a monumental effort  to split it with a maul and wedge.


Well, _true_ white fir (_Abies concolor_) doesn't grow in the San Juan islands....
So, you're looking at something else...
Maybe Grand Fir?

_Abies concolor_ is a fine looking candidate for tops in old-growth form, with nice white wood and (usually) a nicely defined graining....

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## sunburst

Eric, I'm not Clark, but I used to trout fish a lot, and I am familiar with the habitat of eastern hemlock.
The trees are very shade-tolerant and grow well in the dark, moist hollows on mountainsides where cold, clear trout streams cascade down the mountainside. They grow tall and keep a lot of lower limbs compared to spruces and such in comparably dense stands. As they die and loose their graceful, lacy foliage, the gray hulks will fall and lie crosswise across the streams for years, with dead branches intertwining into an impenetrable mass.
You may have noticed the somewhat colorful language in this post. It is to try to help convey the profound sadness I feel at the prospect of loosing yet another of my favorite trees of the eastern forest to an introduced pest. (chestnut, fraser fir, elm, ash, hemlock, ...)

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## Rick Turner

Ben mentioned King Billy pine...which is not really pine, but looks and feels very much like Engelmann spruce (picea engelmanni).  My pal Ned Trewartha builds beautiful wooden boats...and uke tops...with King Billy.

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## big smiley guy

> You may have noticed the somewhat colorful language in this post. It is to try to help convey the profound sadness I feel at the prospect of loosing yet another of my favorite trees of the eastern forest to an introduced pest. (chestnut, fraser fir, elm, ash, hemlock, ...)


I've watched a number of the hemlocks in this area die in recent years.  They usually follow a pattern where the top dies first and it works its way down the trunk until all of it is dead.

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## Eric Hanson

John, Thanks for the info. When I lived in Western NC I had the in-opportunity to come across a few of those snags in the river. Great for the fish to be covered under. A real drag for us and our fly tackle. I Always seemed to loose a few more flies on those days.

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## tree

Sorry, didn't really intend to hijack the thread.  There are just so many dying hemlocks standing in the NC mountains right now, it really is sad.  I remember in Forestry school we had a 2 week segment of summer camp in the mountains, and one of the things we did was to core a big hemlock down in Linville Gorge.  The trunk was so big we had to interpolate the age from the DBH measurement and the pattern of latewood on the core, and it was in the neighborhood of 350 years.  There are lots of locations in the mountains where the trees were just too difficult to get to with the small gauge rail that they laid to log the mountains.  I find it supremely ironic that the trees survived the logging to be exterminated a century later by a tiny exotic insect.

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## John Arnold

> There are lots of locations in the mountains where the trees were just too difficult to get to with the small gauge rail that they laid to log the mountains. I find it supremely ironic that the trees survived the logging to be exterminated a century later by a tiny exotic insect.


That may have been true in a few instances, but the main reason many of the old hemlocks were not cut is because they made poor lumber. Frequently, the old trees were 'ring shook'...the oldimers term for growth ring separations. Logs like that were dangerous to mill, because they could fall apart on the sawmill.

Pet peeve of the day:
"Loose" is an adjective that rhymes with "goose".
"Lose" is a verb that rhymes with "booze".

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## Max Girouard

Thanks to all whom have contributed to this thread.  It has helped me start to learn a bunch about other tonewoods used as tops.  Below I have compiled a list of all the woods mentioned in this tread.  I had no idea that there were so many.  As far as my 'experiment' goes, I am no longer going to call it an experiment as there are too many variables as pointed out before.  Rather, I will call it an 'experience'!

Sitka Spruce / Picea sitchenensis
Engleman Spruce /	Picea engelmannii
White Spruce / Picea glauca
Red Spruce / Picea rubens
Carpathian spruce	/P icea abies
Lutz / Picea sitchensis (Sitka) and Picea glauca (white spruce) hybird
German spruce / Picea excelsa
Western Red Cedar	 / Thuja plicata
Port Orford Cedar / Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
Alaskan yellow Cedar / Callitropsis nootkatensis
Spanish Cedar / Cedrela odorata
Incence Cedar / Calocedrus
Douglas Fir / Pseudotsuga menziesii
European Silver Fir / Abies alba
Noble Fir 	/ Abies procera
California Red Fir / Abies magnifica 
White Fir / Abies concolor
Redwood / ?????
White Pine / Pinus strobus
Lodgepole pine / Pinus contorta
Ponderosa Pine / Pinus ponderosa
King William Pine / Athrotaxis selaginoides
Eastern Hemlock / 	Tsuga canadensis
Western Larch / Larix occidentalis
Tun / Cedrela toona
European Lime / Tilia cordata
Tacote / 	Verbesina fastigiata
Basswood / Tilia
Koa / Acacia koa
Mahogany / Swietenia humilis
Cherry / 	Prunus avium / Prunus serotina
Walnut / 	Juglans

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## Rob Grant

This would be a rather rare wood for all the Yanks, but one which is as close to me heart as me dear 'ol mum... King Billy Pine. Last time I looked its scientific title was Athrotaxis selaginoides. I love the stuff; I just wish it wasn't so scarce!

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## Dave Cohen

Redwood is _Sequoia Sempervirens_.

http://www.Cohenmando.com

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## Rob Grant

I just straighten my act out on this thread and realized that there was more then one page!<g>

Reading through, I realized that Paul kindly posted my red cedar photo taken after cyclone Larry. In regards to that photo and Johns comment on the chainsaw cut: The massive crown of the tree was sheared off by the cyclonic winds that the cat. 4 storm produced and dropped across one of our main roads to the Coral Sea coast. The Queensland Main Roads Department cleanup crew knocked over the remaining trunk with a cut to the base. This very valuable chunk of "red gold" was legally "untouchable" because of its location in a protected reserve. Three weeks after being cut the trunk "mysteriously" disappeared. No, I don't have it sliced and neatly stacked in my bottom shed... damn!<G>

I did make a mandolin top with the timber, but I've never used it on a complete instrument. A mate in Kuranda used this same timber as a top plate for a violin. I haven't heard the instrument played, but FWIW the comment is that it has a "dark" tone.

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## Mario Proulx

A little late to the dance, but, no mention of black spruce? A most excellent tonewood....

I also built a flat top mandolin this winter, with a red pine top. Won't be the last one, either. 

May as well add these to the list...

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## whyner

Newbie here, first post, yea!  Been lurking for about a month, great place MC is!

Incense Cedar (Pencil Cedar) is: Libocedrus decurrens, currently Calocedrus decurrens 
Genus was changed a few years back, most folks around here still refer to it as L. decurrens.   

Coast Redwood is: Sequoia sempervirens 
Grows along the coast in Calif. and So. Ore.  This is likely the usual sp. for tonewood.  

Giant Sequoia is: Sequoiadendron giganteum 
Grows in the Sierra's in Calif.  No significant commericial harvest of this sp.  Probably would work though, hard (for softwoods) and brittle.  

As an aside, most true firs (Abies sp.) have another attribute besides being stringy at times.  A mill I worked for cut it in 5/4in x 6in x 8ft and sold it as corral boards.  Sold a lot of it.  Evidently horses don't chew on it due to the odor.  Which is more evident when wet or slobbered on, luckily.  Locally we call it p!$$ - fir.

Steve
Oregon

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## Larry Simonson

Another way look at this is to ask, what species in the hands of the most talented luthiers, can not be carved into a great mandolin soundboard?  Balsa?

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## Paul Hostetter

> Another way look at this is to ask, what species in the hands of the most talented luthiers, can not be carved into a great mandolin soundboard?  Balsa?


Your point is a really good one though, believe it or not, there are some very interesting violins being made with carbon-fiber braced balsa tops! Carved? Not really, but someone's using balsa, which illustrates what you're saying. 

A couple of woods I'd never bother with (or seriously submit for a list) are incense cedar and giant sequoia, the Sierra stuff, which never found a commercial use because it is so weak. Drop a tree and it simply shatters into little pieces. They couldn't even make pencils out of it. Calocedrus decurrens, our western incense cedar, is not much better, though it does host a wasp, the larvae of which burrow easily in the heartwood and leave very large holes all through it. You see it as rustic decorative wall paneling, but that's about it. Sequoiadendron giganteum does make a spectacular ornamental though. You could park your butt under one and play some mandolin.

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