# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  USB interface recommendations

## jasona

A couple of audio engineer types have strongly advised against a USB mic and instead get an interface/preamp and a Sure KM-57 or 58. I would like to entertain recommendations for which interface you all recommend. Looking for a sweet spot in terms of cost and quality, as I will not be recording masters or anything, but I would like better sound quality than the built in mic on my laptop

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## mandroid

Shure makes one, as I said,  (in Perry's thread),  you can get them in a package 
with the popular SM57 & 58 dynamic  mic.

http://www.shure.com/americas/produc...digital-bundle

 the  adapter  http://www.shure.com/americas/produc...signal-adapter 

Though there are, also  some  mixers that include a USB output in them too..

[no KM, there are KSM mics, a different line]

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## BeginnerMandolinistTyler

I have the Focusrite Scarlett Studio bundle which includes the Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, condenser mic, cable, and headphones. The only extra thing you need is a mic stand. I got it for Christmas and I love it so far. I use it to record guitar and mandolin. It's $212"ish" not including the stand. It's produces a really decent sound for a relatively cheap( in price, not quality) product. I unfortunately don't have a sample recording on my laptop(I'm away at college) but I'm a huge stickler for audio quality so if I'm happy with it I'm sure you would be as well. It was actually recommended to me by some members on the forums. I asked a similar question before Christmas. The set up is relatively easy. Just activate it online and install a driver. The recording software it comes with is a lite version of cubase 6/7.  I happened to have another program (fl studios, $200) which I prefer more. So yeah, I would recommend this if you want simple.  Hope this helps and sorry if I made a type, I'm typing this from phone!

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## almeriastrings

A detailed breakdown of the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...recommendation

I have subsequently used the 18i18 and 18i20 versions, and they are also really very good indeed. I'm fairly familiar with some quite "high end" interfaces (Apogee, Metric Halo, Lynx Aurora and RME) and have to say that subjectively, these new Scarlett interfaces sound so good that any differences are in hair-splitting territory. The mic preamps in particular are first class. The more I've played with them, the more impressed I've become.

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## jasona

Yeah meant SM57. Surely I'd be better off with a full input deck than that little thing in the bundle?

Thanks almeria. I read a few of your previous posts on the Focusrite Scarlett. Do you have any experience with the ART Tube MP?

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## almeriastrings

How many inputs you require will entirely depend on what you aim to record, and how... for many 'home studio' setups a 2-input interface could be all you ever need. You can track instruments in stereo (provided you have a suitable pair of matched mics, of course), and you can build up songs by multi-tracking. You only really need more inputs if you are tracking multiple performers and whole bands, then, certainly, anything from 8 simultaneous inputs up to 32 may be required. Drum kits eat up tracks as you may be using a separate mic for each drum and cymbal, plus a stereo overhead for ambiance.  Generally, though, for home studios you do not need a vast array of simultaneous inputs. I hardly ever use more than 4 inputs simultaneously when tracking at home, most often, just a stereo pair or single vocal mic. If doing live multi-track recordings of performances, then, yes - you will need quite a bit of capacity, normally a minimum of 16 simultaneous tracks.  I use either an Allen & Heath Zed R16 or an 8 input interface + 8 channel ADAT expander for that kind of thing (the Focusrite Octopre, RME Octamic and Presonus Digimax are good examples).

The ART Tube MP.... I don't use one myself, but have encountered them. They are quite noisy and frankly, not much to write home about. Some people seem to like them. Some of the ART stuff is very good value for money. I still have a first generation ART PRO VLA (compressor) that is surprisingly decent, and it has stayed in the rack long after a lot of other things have left... even living alongside some things at many, many times the price. The PRO MPA dual channel preamp is also very good value. I don't much like starved plate (low voltage), wall-wart driven stuff, to be honest.

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## davidtoc

Another vote for the Scarlett 2i2 or 2i4.  I got a 2i4 for Christmas and I've been using it with a Shure SM81 and a RØDE NT1-A and been very happy.


dave

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## mandroid

whats the cost on those ?   ( i see $2K, stuff, used, so, discounted on other stuff,  in their site.)

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## Nevin

I have a Scarlett 2i2 that I got used for $50.  The setup was a bit cludgy but is very easy to use after that.  The sound quality is good.

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## jasona

New they appear to list in Canada for around $150. On eBay it is also about this price, but then add in an extra $30 for shipping.

Man, the days of good deals on eBay are long gone  :Frown:

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## jasona

I assume a Shure sm57 is a decent starter mic?

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## foldedpath

> I assume a Shure sm57 is a decent starter mic?


If you already own a 57, then it's not a bad mic to start with, but if you're buying your first recording mic, then I'd recommend a small diaphragm condenser like the Audio Technica Pro 37. 

That's only $30 more than a typical price for a SM57 (a real one, not one of the many fakes on Ebay), and it will do a better job of capturing the upper "air" frequencies of acoustic instruments, compared to a dynamic mic like the SM57. If you have a larger budget, the sky's the limit.

Whatever the budget, I think learning how to use a small diaphragm condenser (ideally a pair, for stereo) is a good step in learning how to record acoustic instruments. From there, you can branch out to other types of mics like ribbon mics, large diaphragm tube mics, or whatever. I've self-recorded and recorded other musicians for many years now, and I keep coming back to small diaphragm condenser mics as the mainstay for acoustic instruments.

---

Regarding the OP question on USB interfaces... my favorite brand for non-ridiculously-high-end interfaces is RME, both for converter/preamp quality and the quality of their drivers and accessory software ("TotalMix" is very cool for signal routing). But they don't have anything in the inexpensive range, unfortunately. I think their cheapest interface is the BabyFace at around $750 USD. Ouch! The German build and Euro/Dollar conversion keeps them out of the lower price range, I guess.

If you have the money and need a multi-input interface, the RME Fireface UFX is terrific. That's what I'm currently using, with outboard mic preamps (and the four built-in preamps if I need extras). Aside from being a generally great interface, it has the killer feature of being able to act as a standalone recorder, direct to a USB thumbdrive (or USB hard drive) without even being hooked up to a computer. That makes it amazingly versatile compared to most other interfaces. I use it in my home studio as a silent way to record groups of musicians in a good acoustic space, then I just transfer the USB stick to my main editing computer for editing. If I need to multitrack something, I just hook it up to a laptop to manage the overdubs while recording. Best of both worlds. 

The UFX is expensive and probably overkill for what many folks are doing here, but I'm mentioning it because the OP didn't specify a price range for USB interfaces. Someone might pull up this thread later on, looking for a more high-end solution. 

At the budget entry-level, something like the Focusrite series is getting good reviews. I used to recommend M-Audio gear in this range, but I'm not sure they've been keeping up lately.

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## almeriastrings

Would not be my first choice for recording in that price range.  Quite low output, for one thing. I would look instead at a condenser microphone. Many choices...  a basic small diaphragm matched pair is a good place to start. Well suited to stringed instruments. Will allow for experimentation with various mic setups and recording in stereo. For example:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tereo_Set.html

We were posting at the same time there... :Smile: 

I would say this regarding the RME's. Yes, they are good with very solid drivers. However.. I have run a Babyface side by side with a Focusrite 18i18 and in terms of sound, could not tell one from the other, even when trying hard to. This technology is moving fast, and the quality is going up, and the price down. Even running an 18i18 next to an Apogee ($2K) any audible differences are really hard to pin down. Certainly not obvious, to me, at least. You're down to trying to hear small differences in spatial imaging, etc. Nothing really jumps right out at you, and in a mix....

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## jasona

was wondering about the M-Audio box. It seems a good price

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## oldwave

> was wondering about the M-Audio box. It seems a good price


by far the best bang for the buck are the Scarlett series, like ameriastrings, i have ab the  better interfaces and find them very close, I own a babyface and a firface ucx.  The RMe does have the advantage of new class compliant modes and their drivers are second to none, but we are looking at a lot more money.

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## mtm

I'm a novice, and picked up a ART TubeMP for $40 used, and I got a new SM57.  For someone of my skill level (or lack-thereof) and with GarageBand, it's plenty.  The SM57 was a compromise since it serves double duty mic'ing my nephew's amp.  

So, the ART might not be great, but until my skills warrant something of higher quality, not knowing any better doesn't seem to be hurting me.  I also got the nephew a small mixer (Behringer XENYX x1202) to begin educating him about recording, and because it only has 4 XLR inputs, the ART serves as a mic preamp that goes 'line in' to a mixer TRS slot ... I guess any interface would do that, though....

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## almeriastrings

> was wondering about the M-Audio box. It seems a good price


The older models are USB 1.1 only.

The new 'Fast Track' versions are USB 2.0.

M-Audio have a bit of history with some flaky drivers in the past. I have no personal experience of the more recent models.

It is worth noting (for Mac users) that there are a number of issues with recent Macs that can impact on all USB (and some Firewire and Thunderbolt) interfaces to do with recent chipset changes. As always, for audio work, once you get a nice stable system, best not to 'upgrade' or mess with it too much.....

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## John L

Alesis i03 - 4 channels in and USB out

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## jasona

> I'm a novice, and picked up a ART TubeMP for $40 used, and I got a new SM57.  For someone of my skill level (or lack-thereof) and with GarageBand, it's plenty.  The SM57 was a compromise since it serves double duty mic'ing my nephew's amp.  
> 
> So, the ART might not be great, but until my skills warrant something of higher quality, not knowing any better doesn't seem to be hurting me.  I also got the nephew a small mixer (Behringer XENYX x1202) to begin educating him about recording, and because it only has 4 XLR inputs, the ART serves as a mic preamp that goes 'line in' to a mixer TRS slot ... I guess any interface would do that, though....


OK that is good to know. My only hesitation with just going with the good bargain is my ear. I can hear a lot of tonal differences of top woods (for example) and if I didn't spend that extra $30 or whatever and got a less sensitive system...ok it really sounds #firstworldproblems but I'm trying to decide where my personal sweet spot is going to be cash vs. sound quality. Really appreciate your input however (pun not intended) because that is an excellent price point.

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## jasona

How is the AKG 170 for a budget small diaphragm condenser mic?

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## foldedpath

> How is the AKG 170 for a budget small diaphragm condenser mic?


I haven't heard this mic, but AKG is one of the older and respected companies in audio, so I imagine that while the build quality won't be Neumann level, the capsule design and electronics are the best they can pull off at the price point and with overseas manufacture. In other words... probably a decent starter mic. FWIW, the user reviews on the Sweetwater site are good, but I don't know how much they edit for positive vs. negative reviews. 

One nice thing about that low price, is it would make a pair more affordable for stereo recording.  :Smile: 

You're not going to get "matched" capsules at that price, or for most mics in the sub-$500 category, but they're probably close enough for the way most people mic instruments in stereo (i.e. often in spaced pair, and not needing critical stereo imaging).

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## jasona

Yeah the reviews are really encouraging, and at that price I think I will go for it and try it out. If I like, I'll get another down the road for stereo recording as you suggest.

Anything I should be aware of WRT mic cables?

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## jasona

I found this side by side comparison pretty interesting. AKG P170 vs. Shure SM57

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## jasona

Then there is the stupidly inexpensive audio-technica at2021, although I haven't heard a clip on YouTube that has the clarity of the AKG P170

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## almeriastrings

> Anything I should be aware of WRT mic cables?


Avoid really cheap ones. Tend to have bad 'copy cat' connectors, sometimes incorrect wiring, poor joints and capacitance issues.

You do not need 'Monster' cables or anything like that (hyped consumer grade stuff) - just good, professional, workhorse cables with genuine Neutrik or Rean (part of Neutrik) connectors.  If you want something really good, even better than standard pro grade, then the Mogami Neglex Quad is superb. 

There is all sorts of hype regarding cables... you can pay $200 a yard if you feel like it... Sommer Epilogue and Vovox. 

Some say they can hear differences.... some can't. You pays your money and you makes your choice, as they say.

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## AW Meyer

Hi Jason, making some of these decisions can be tricky. Finding good deals can also be tricky. LA Music is a mail order company in Mississauga with a large inventory. I have dealt with them a few times and I don't hesitate to recommend their service (nfi). For me, a big plus is that they are in Canada, so you don't have to worry about your items being held up at Canada Customs. I've had some of the most innocuous items ordered from the US held up at Customs for over six weeks. I believe that LA Music offers free shipping on orders over $100. I hope this is helpful information for you.
http://www.lamusic.ca/AKG-Perception...one-p/p170.htm

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## foldedpath

Agreeing with Almeriastrings here about cables: don't get the cheapest (Hosa) or the most expensive (Monster et al), just buy a good intermediate grade, and look for things like Neutrik brand connectors as a sign of good quality. Electrons don't care what they're moving over, as long as the cable is minimum spec with good shielding, so the connectors are the main failure points. Don't use anything with cheap or molded connectors that can't be taken apart. You can save money by making your own cables from bulk Mogami wire and Neutrik connectors if you know how to solder. 

I used to do that, but now I just buy ProCo pre-made cables at Sweetwater (here's a sample ProCo 20-foot mic cable). I think most of my cables are now ProCo and they've held up well, both in the studio and out on gigs.

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## jasona

> Hi Jason, making some of these decisions can be tricky. Finding good deals can also be tricky. LA Music is a mail order company in Mississauga with a large inventory. I have dealt with them a few times and I don't hesitate to recommend their service (nfi). For me, a big plus is that they are in Canada, so you don't have to worry about your items being held up at Canada Customs. I've had some of the most innocuous items ordered from the US held up at Customs for over six weeks. I believe that LA Music offers free shipping on orders over $100. I hope this is helpful information for you.
> http://www.lamusic.ca/AKG-Perception...one-p/p170.htm


Awesome thanks for this! Best local price I could find is $117 but at a store with a sketchy reputation.

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## jasona

Thanks also for the information about mic cables. I really appreciate you all sharing your knowledge with a newb--first getting into things you can make so many different sorts of mistakes. This helps keep me from throwing good money after bad. I do know how to solder but have no equipment on hand and life is short, etc.

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## TonyP

I don't mean to horn in on this, but I just want to say thank you Almeriastrings and foldedpath. I learn a bunch whenever you guys post. It's funny my M-audio Delta 1010 quit on me(needs a set of power supply caps, a known problem) about the time Almeriastrings was coaching somebody to get the Scarlett 2i2. Just what I needed and it's so much better than my m-audio mobilepre it's not funny.

 I did run into one weird install problem when I installed the Scarlett. The software installed great....but all audio through it was weirdly distorted and slow. I tried all different things and helpdesk was stumped. I thought the only thing left was I'd disconnected the  pci internal board from the outboard box of the 1010. It didn't even show on the control panel. But since I'd probably not be putting it back in for a while and I needed to blow out the dust bunnies anyway, I uninstalled the board. That did the trick, no more weirdness. whodathunk? Probably nobody else would run into this, but you never know. I am a very happy camper now.

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## jasona

Not horning in at all Tony. I learn a lot from every post on the subject!

Bummed, right now the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is listed for $108 on B&H, and the AKG P170 for $79, but they will ship neither to Canada  :Frown:

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## Mike Bunting

> Not horning in at all Tony. I learn a lot from every post on the subject!
> 
> Bummed, right now the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is listed for $108 on B&H, and the AKG P170 for $79, but they will ship neither to Canada


US$108 = C$118 today. Add shipping and compare to C$120 at Long and McQuade in Calgary.

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## Mike Bunting

> Not horning in at all Tony. I learn a lot from every post on the subject!
> 
> Bummed, right now the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is listed for $108 on B&H, and the AKG P170 for $79, but they will ship neither to Canada


US$108 = C$118 today. Add shipping and compare to C$120 at Long and McQuade in Calgary.

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## jasona

> US$108 = C$118 today. Add shipping and compare to C$120 at Long and McQuade in Calgary.


Last time I checked Long and McQuade it was $160. Still is on line at least. It only $120 in store? I'll be in Edmonton tomorrow if it is on sale  :Smile:

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## Mike Bunting

> Last time I checked Long and McQuade it was $160. Still is on line at least. It only $120 in store? I'll be in Edmonton tomorrow if it is on sale


I saw it on A Calgary store search. Says $160 on Edmonton search.

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## jasona

huh. I can't get that deal. will keep trying.

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## TonyP

You guys are makin' me feel bad, I paid $150+ with shipping etc here in the states. I made myself feel better with the fact that all the reviewers said the plugins' that came with it were worth more than $100......it is a way nicer unit than either M-audio's. For the very fact that the mic inputs, and all the switches and monitor output/headphone output knobs are all on the front! What a concept. Plus a real aluminum case instead of plastic. I've not been able to record yet but all the reviews rave. $$$ is tight, but I feel like we're getting our money's worth here at least.

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## almeriastrings

> $$$ is tight, but I feel like we're getting our money's worth here at least.


I think so... there were $500+ interfaces just a couple of years ago that had preamps and converters that didn't sound as good as these do.

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## AW Meyer

Somewhere in the middle:
http://www.lamusic.ca/Focusrite-Scar...carlett2i2.htm

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## Justus True Waldron

I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Presonus's stuff yet. I mean I know they're not quite in the same league sonically as stuff by Focusrite, etc, but for the money they've served as really good workhorse type equipment for me. I bought their big 1818vsl usb interface last year to do a recording project with my bluegrass band, and it served that purpose great. As an added benefit it also works as a very low latency digital mixer with fx and ipod control, a feature we used at the last few shows with very good results.

For someone looking to start out doing home recording that's probably more channels than you need, but even their 2 preamp models are basically the same, just smaller (and cheaper). A friend of mine scored their Audiobox 2x2 with an AKG condenser, mic stand, and an akai 25 key usb controller for $200 on craigslist basically new in box. It's been working as well for him on his mac as mine works for me  on my Win 7 box. 

As far as mics go I'd also second the condenser motion. A 57 is a great mic, especially for live work, but for recording I'd get something that pics up more "air" and nuance. Fortunately you don't have to look very far these days for a decent cheap condenser. I've become a fan of Audio Technica for budget level gear that does a good job of reproducing exactly what you put into it - in fact for my basement level budget the AT2035 has pretty much become my workhorse mic of choice these days. Combine one of those with one of the many inexpensive small diaphragm condensers out there these days and you have yourself a very versatile setup IMO.

The other benefit of the Presonus setup for me is I actually really like their DAW Studio One. Over the years I've used Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Cubase, and Audition to various extents, and while Studio One may not be as all out powerful as Pro Tools, it gives me everything I use in a straightforward and friendly package. For someone just getting into recording I feel like it could make things really pretty easy. Of course you can use their stuff with any other DAW if you want as well...

This is the album I finished a couple months ago. It may not be Nashville studio quality, but considering I recorded it in a basement on a presonus interface with a few sub $200 condensers I'm pretty happy with it. Next time around I'd like to invest in a high quality front end channel and some form of high end LDC for a little more warmth and depth in the vocals (and maybe spend more than a day mixing it!), but for doing a whole album at the budget I had I think things worked pretty well. I've since had several friends go with the Presonus audiobox and Audio Technica condenser route, and they've all been happy with it. At this price point there are a lot of good choices, but I think this setup deserves at least a look!

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## foldedpath

> I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Presonus's stuff yet. I mean I know they're not quite in the same league sonically as stuff by Focusrite, etc, but for the money they've served as really good workhorse type equipment for me. I bought their big 1818vsl usb interface last year to do a recording project with my bluegrass band, and it served that purpose great. As an added benefit it also works as a very low latency digital mixer with fx and ipod control, a feature we used at the last few shows with very good results.


That Presonus 1818vsl is interesting. It looks like they're leveraging the channel components (including effects) in their digital PA mixers, and re-purposing them in a recording interface. 

The reason I'd be hesitant about recommending that particular series of Presonus interfaces, at least to a beginner to recording, is that you're paying for a lot of FX processing that's irrelevant to many of us who do home or semi-pro recording. It can be dangerous, for a beginner, if the effects are used to print tracks and you don't know what you're doing with things like compression. 

Some recording engineers do use FX when printing tracks, but that's usually done through zero latency analog gear of a higher quality, or with something like the Universal Audio Apollo interface with higher-end plugin effects. Once you print effects to a track while recording, you can't go back.

The quality of modern computer plugin effects for things like EQ, compression, and reverb is so high now, and so varied, that it just doesn't make sense to me to have lower-grade effects inside the recording interface. It's astonishing how good the best current VST plugins are. And of course you can "un-do" any effects added in the computer during mixdown.

I know the effects in the 1818vsl can be used only for monitoring while recording and not printing, but I'm not convinced that's an important feature in a recording interface. If I'm working with a singer who absolutely _insists_ on hearing some reverb in the cans when recording, it's easy enough to split a monitor feed through a small mixer with built-in reverb. Although, that's a situation I try to avoid. I record most groups "live," playing together in the same room without headphones or overdubs.

Leaving aside all those gripes about the built-in effects, the Presonus 18188vsl looks like a decent contender for an 8-preamp interface in that price range. Another preamp I'd be looking at is the MOTU 8pre USB, about the same price. MOTU gear has a pretty good reputation for mid-level gear like this.

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## jasona

> Somewhere in the middle:
> http://www.lamusic.ca/Focusrite-Scar...carlett2i2.htm


Yeah that is the best price I can find in Canada at the moment.

ETA: Tony sorry, not trying to make you feel bad mate. Just trying to get the best deal possible. As a consumer its our only weapon!  :Mandosmiley:

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## jasona

> I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Presonus's stuff yet. I mean I know they're not quite in the same league sonically as stuff by Focusrite, etc, but for the money they've served as really good workhorse type equipment for me. I bought their big 1818vsl usb interface last year to do a recording project with my bluegrass band, and it served that purpose great. As an added benefit it also works as a very low latency digital mixer with fx and ipod control, a feature we used at the last few shows with very good results.
> 
> For someone looking to start out doing home recording that's probably more channels than you need, but even their 2 preamp models are basically the same, just smaller (and cheaper). A friend of mine scored their Audiobox 2x2 with an AKG condenser, mic stand, and an akai 25 key usb controller for $200 on craigslist basically new in box. It's been working as well for him on his mac as mine works for me  on my Win 7 box. 
> 
> As far as mics go I'd also second the condenser motion. A 57 is a great mic, especially for live work, but for recording I'd get something that pics up more "air" and nuance. Fortunately you don't have to look very far these days for a decent cheap condenser. I've become a fan of Audio Technica for budget level gear that does a good job of reproducing exactly what you put into it - in fact for my basement level budget the AT2035 has pretty much become my workhorse mic of choice these days. Combine one of those with one of the many inexpensive small diaphragm condensers out there these days and you have yourself a very versatile setup IMO.
> 
> The other benefit of the Presonus setup for me is I actually really like their DAW Studio One. Over the years I've used Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Cubase, and Audition to various extents, and while Studio One may not be as all out powerful as Pro Tools, it gives me everything I use in a straightforward and friendly package. For someone just getting into recording I feel like it could make things really pretty easy. Of course you can use their stuff with any other DAW if you want as well...
> 
> This is the album I finished a couple months ago. It may not be Nashville studio quality, but considering I recorded it in a basement on a presonus interface with a few sub $200 condensers I'm pretty happy with it. Next time around I'd like to invest in a high quality front end channel and some form of high end LDC for a little more warmth and depth in the vocals (and maybe spend more than a day mixing it!), but for doing a whole album at the budget I had I think things worked pretty well. I've since had several friends go with the Presonus audiobox and Audio Technica condenser route, and they've all been happy with it. At this price point there are a lot of good choices, but I think this setup deserves at least a look!


That sounds pretty nice to me, especially the overall mix. Have you had any experience with the AT2021 SDC?

I am planning on getting the Focusrite 2i2 and the AKG P170 at this point but I think this is a good discussion to continue for others in my position.

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## almeriastrings

The 1818VSL is a very good interface, generally. It is also up and running on OSX Mavericks, though there are some "popping and clicking" issues on some systems. Other good points are ADAT in and out, so you can use it for 'out of the box' mixes (with a suitable hardware mixer of course), or you can add on an extra 8 inputs via an ADAT equipped pre like the Digimax D8 or Focusrite Octopre. I have one here right now, in fact. The audio quality is very good - nothing to complain about at all in that respect. A couple of things I don't like much... main gripe is that you have to run even line inputs through the front panel XLR's which is a real pain in a typical studio rack, and I don't like the fact that there is absolutely no input metering on the XLR inputs (apart from a very small and rather dull clip LED located right off to the side by the gain knobs). That means you have to keep going back to the DAW screen to check levels - not ideal. So, although it_ sounds_ absolutely fine, it has some "handling" drawbacks in my opinion. I get the impression it is mainly aimed at modern bands and drummers, who often do demand all kinds of different monitor mixes with FX thrown in, whereas most acoustic musicians are happy without. The VSL software and 'Fat Channel' FX are very good for creating complex multiple monitor mixes (you can throw in EQ, compression and reverb), but that is not something I'd use much (if at all) myself. 

It is rather awkward in use with that metering deficiency if you are trying to pick and record at the same time and may be some distance from the DAW... a visible 'hardware' input meter on each mic input is not exactly a luxury! For some reason, the Digimax D8 manages to offer this... but the 1818VSL leaves it out. The 'traffic light' illuminated surrounds on the Focusrite Scarlett range works really well.. simple... very obvious... and accurate. Just what you need. 

To second what Foldedpath says on the FX aspect - the compressor function in the VSL is pretty basic. Not something I'd wish to track with (again, I suspect it is mainly aimed at supplying drummers with some compression in their monitors). The EQ and reverbs, although adequate, are nothing too special, and nowhere near what can be achieved elsewhere. I do frequently track vocals with some modest compression, but via some really nice analog stuff which is very predictable, easy to use, and sounds great (mainly Universal Audio LA-610 Mk.II or 6176's). I would not want to rely on the compressor function of the 1818VSL...

I totally concur about the Studio One (V2) DAW software. It really is very nice indeed (though you need the full 'pro' version to take full advantage). Logic has been getting more and more 'bloated' and midi/loop oriented, while Studio One is very pleasant to use for 'real' audio work. There's a bit of a learning curve (as with all DAW's) but it is quite intuitive and the supplied plugins are excellent. You do get a somewhat cut-down version 'free' with Presonus interfaces.

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## Justus True Waldron

> Have you had any experience with the AT2021 SDC


Not directly, a friend of mine just picked one up to go with his AT2050. I haven't heard it yet but I'd imagine it's pretty similar to most of the other budget km84 clone SDCs out there. 




> I am planning on getting the Focusrite 2i2 and the AKG P170 at this point but I think this is a good discussion to continue for others in my position.


I think you're making a solid choice, quality gear that leaves a lot more flexibility to the future when compared to one USB mic with built in A/D converter and preamp... Lots of good choices at this level, enjoy! I've been looking at that P170 for a little while myself.




> The reason I'd be hesitant about recommending that particular series of Presonus interfaces, at least to a beginner to recording, is that you're paying for a lot of FX processing that's irrelevant to many of us who do home or semi-pro recording. It can be dangerous, for a beginner, if the effects are used to print tracks and you don't know what you're doing with things like compression.


Yeah I agree with you there about not needing to print fx to tracks, as Almeriastrings points out I believe that feature was really designed with monitors(especially drum monitors) in mind. It's something I could really care less about, but fortunately the price isn't much affected by the addition of it. It's also something you have to manually turn on (I spent a month of recording with it before I even bothered to learn how to use those features), so you can pretty much plug it in and use it as a normal interface and not even worry about that stuff if you want. That said our bluegrass band had a pretty simple setup with a LDC and a couple of SDC satellites for live shows, and I did use the live monitoring portion to run FOH for a few smaller shows with really nice results. I have it in a rack bag with a laptop and a wireless router, it was pretty nice to just show up, plug in, load up a view, tweak, and then hand off the ipod to a trusted friend in the audience. Some folks said it was the best sound we ever had... pretty cool and powerful stuff for $500 (but yeah also beyond the scope of the OP's use). For around $150 new though the 2x2 makes a pretty handy starter interface, though with stiff competition from Focusrite etc.




> A couple of things I don't like much... main gripe is that you have to run even line inputs through the front panel XLR's which is a real pain in a typical studio rack, and I don't like the fact that there is absolutely no input metering on the XLR inputs (apart from a very small and rather dull clip LED located right off to the side by the gain knobs). That means you have to keep going back to the DAW screen to check levels - not ideal.


I agree - that's one of my main gripes so far. Fortunately for us, we were never that far from the laptop where I couldn't keep an eye on levels, but it definitely made things trickier than they needed to be (especially with playing/recording at the same time). Another funny thing I've noticed with presonus is their preamps seem to be more exponential then linear... there is a definite point around 3/4 of the way up where they seem to suddenly get a lot hotter... combined with the lack of clear monitoring this doesn't help the situation. Once you get it dialed in though it does sound and work pretty well IMO so I've been able to overlook it for my uses. The line input on the front thing would annoy me in a real studio as well, but given my laptop setup it's not too much of a pain. I'm excited about the ADAT input, thinking about getting an Octopre at some point to increase the channels if I ever want to do a jazz band recording with drums. 




> I totally concur about the Studio One (V2) DAW software. It really is very nice indeed (though you need the full 'pro' version to take full advantage).


Yeah, after using the free version for a while I decided I liked it enough to upgrade so I could get VST plugins, etc. I've been pretty happy with it. It's amazing how much value  you can get these days for the amount of money...

----------


## TonyP

> It's amazing how much value you can get these days for the amount of money...


yeah, like free!  Because of you're post I went and checked out the Studio One and I'll be, but they have a free version that's functional and doesn't time out. Wow, that's one way to get folks to notice you in this thick crowd of DAWs! Another good tip from this thread. Thanks Justus.

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## Justus True Waldron

Glad to be of service to somebody! (Other than simply typing long rambling post of gobledegook)  :Grin:  

I have the free version running on an old laptop in case I need to open up a project there... it will open projects from the paid versions and works smoothly, although it does limit you to using only 2 channels of recording at a time as well as the built in channel strip. Still, for basic get your feet wet multitrack recording it can be really handy - and you can't beat free! Much nicer UI than something like Audacity, and it will be the same if you ever upgrade to a paid version.

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## foldedpath

One note about that free version of Studio One... unless I'm mistaken, it only uses built-in effects and doesn't support external VST plugins. That may be all you ever need, but it looks like you have to upgrade to at least the $99 USD artist version to get VST support if you want to experiment with other plugins. So it's free software, but also a come-on to buy into the Presonus upgrade line. At the point where you need VST support or more simultaneous recorded tracks, it would be a good idea to look around at what else is available. 

For example, Reaper -- which is what I'd recommend as a good mid-level DAW for Windows, Mac, or Linux -- is only $60 USD and you get the full version. 

After that point, the choices diverge based on more advanced considerations, like whether you need to swap projects with other studios (where ProTools is still king of the hill), or heavy editing and mastering functions (which is how I ended up with Samplitude Pro X). Samplitude and its big brother Sequoia version are Windows-only, and overkill for a beginner, but boy is it nice if you ever get into heavy slice 'n dice editing. 
 :Wink:

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## jasona

Just picked up the Focusrite at Long and McQuade for $150 (box was listed as $10 less than the online price) and while there I saw this mic. I have to say that is quite a nice price. Sounds decent too from the clip below. Anyone have experience with one of these before?

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## almeriastrings

Apex are another "brand" based mostly (from what I can see) on Alctron-sourced products:

http://www.alctron-audio.com/enindex.asp

http://www.alctron-audio.com/Products_show.asp?sele=47

I have not encountered one of those (under that name) but have seen them under other names... they are silly cheap for what they are. QC can be somewhat variable... but they are an acceptable sounding mic at peanuts prices. In most of the Youtube videos you see people using them in totally untreated rooms, which adds a huge amount of coloration.. and the compression on youtube is hardly much use for judging microphones either. In reality, you can get good recordings from them. Are they as nice and refined as a Neumann, Beyer, top line AKG or whatever? No - of course not, but then you are looking at anything from 10X to 20X the price. The law of diminishing returns kicks in big time with microphones... just as with mandolins. For most "home studios" they are likely good enough. I did test out one of these (discontinued Apex 471) last year (in another guise), an end-fire tube condenser:

http://apexelectronics.com/discontin...oduct/apex471/

Surprisingly good. Very usable and great on fiddle/dobro/acoustic guitar.

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## jasona

> For most "home studios" they are likely good enough.


And thus my dilemma. I was planning to just pick up the AKG tomorrow but now, for half the price, can I get near the quality? With an infinite amount of money I'd be able to test them all, then sell them back?

This low end SDC market really needs a full blog workup. Sadly, I'm not the one to do it.

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## almeriastrings

The QC and consistency on the Perception 170's is quite a lot better. 

Worth bearing in mind if you later want to add in another for stereo miking.

I'd go with the AKG. It is a very good microphone indeed for the money. They also work quite well in live applications too.

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## TonyP

Jason I don't want to clutter your already hard decision but did you look/listen to the other shootout by that same u2oob guy you posted? With the AKG perception 120 and AT 2020? 

I happen to love this guys shootouts because of the stuff he's using for audio material. Those big flutes and that drum, for me, on my headphones are very revealing. And he demonstrates so well what you see on the response curves. The 2020 has much better bottom end and (to me) a better overall sound. He ultimately goes with the 120 because of the switches that the 2020 has. But in my experience because I don't mic amps I never need the pad or roll off. I've seen a bunch of "shootouts" with all kinds of mics, but what sets this guy apart is his source material. 

good luck.

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## foldedpath

> And thus my dilemma. I was planning to just pick up the AKG tomorrow but now, for half the price, can I get near the quality?


Something to keep in mind, is that if you want to pick up a second mic of the same model for use as a stereo pair, then consistency and quality control is important. Generally speaking, the cheaper the mic, the more variable the sound will be for any two mics off the production line. 

It isn't essential to have _perfectly_ matched capsules when using two mics for stereo, unless you're doing critical orchestra recording where the stereo image is important. But it does help to have the mics reasonably close, even for something like recording your mandolin in stereo. The variability can be quite high with some of these cheap, off-brand mics. I haven't heard the mic in question (Apex? Alctron?), but I think you'd have a better chance of picking up a reasonably matched second mic later on, if you go with an entry-level AKG or Audio-Technica small diaphragm mic.

If you never want to fool with stereo, then ignore this.  :Smile: 

There is also at least one stereo technique (Mid-Side) that uses just a single cardioid mic with a figure-8 mic for the sides, but that's getting into some of the more advanced techniques.

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## jasona

> Jason I don't want to clutter your already hard decision but did you look/listen to the other shootout by that same u2oob guy you posted? With the AKG perception 120 and AT 2020? 
> 
> I happen to love this guys shootouts because of the stuff he's using for audio material. Those big flutes and that drum, for me, on my headphones are very revealing. And he demonstrates so well what you see on the response curves. The 2020 has much better bottom end and (to me) a better overall sound. He ultimately goes with the 120 because of the switches that the 2020 has. But in my experience because I don't mic amps I never need the pad or roll off. I've seen a bunch of "shootouts" with all kinds of mics, but what sets this guy apart is his source material. 
> 
> good luck.


I have actually really enjoyed all of the videos testing various microphones, and the search has been fun. Of course, I don't believe I can judge a mic from a utoob because of compression etc., but the videos do give a general sense for sound quality. The flute guy is great, but my favourite so far was one 3 part test of the P170 in Spanish. Dude peels AND EATS A BANANA into the mic!  :Laughing: 

It is exactly the rabbit hole I suspected, home recording. Now that I have made my selection its time to learn how to use this stuff. I assume aim the mic where the neck meets the body? I seem to recall from one of Spruce's threads that for stereo recording mic it there and the treble f-hole.

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## jasona

> Something to keep in mind, is that if you want to pick up a second mic of the same model for use as a stereo pair, then consistency and quality control is important. Generally speaking, the cheaper the mic, the more variable the sound will be for any two mics off the production line. 
> 
> It isn't essential to have _perfectly_ matched capsules when using two mics for stereo, unless you're doing critical orchestra recording where the stereo image is important. But it does help to have the mics reasonably close, even for something like recording your mandolin in stereo. The variability can be quite high with some of these cheap, off-brand mics. I haven't heard the mic in question (Apex? Alctron?), but I think you'd have a better chance of picking up a reasonably matched second mic later on, if you go with an entry-level AKG or Audio-Technica small diaphragm mic.
> 
> If you never want to fool with stereo, then ignore this. 
> 
> There is also at least one stereo technique (Mid-Side) that uses just a single cardioid mic with a figure-8 mic for the sides, but that's getting into some of the more advanced techniques.


I've seen a lot of folks using a large diaphragm condenser for this as well during my video watching. First things first though  :Smile:

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## almeriastrings

> I've seen a lot of folks using a large diaphragm condenser for this as well during my video watching. First things first though


You can certainly use a variable pattern LD condenser for M/S. You just dial in the pattern to figure-of-8. You can use another one set to cardiod... some even have infinitely variable patterns.

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## TonyP

"rabbit hole" indeed! LOL. Wait till you get the other MAS, microphone acquisition syndrome! I've had it come and go now for years. I have to be very careful reading almeriastrings and foldedpath's posts, lest I have to hunt up a meeting to put it at bay again  :Smile:

----------

Mike Bunting

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## jasona

As you can probably tell by now, I research before I try. I was wondering what program to use for recording. I have Audacity because, well, its free. My interface came with a lite version of Live, but it also says proudly it is "Protools Ready!" So which to use?

In my study I found this guy's video, posted below. I dig his message, which boils down to, "stop worrying, they all work, take what you have and learn it. Now go make music!" 



It also speaks to all of the other quandaries I have had to date (which mic? which interface?). So, right. Got mic (the P170), interface, software that came with the interface, computer, and headphones. Guess its time to start recording!

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## almeriastrings

Yes  :Grin: 

There are quite a few good DAW programs around these days. Many of them are very reasonably priced or even free. For most basic purposes 90% of them will deliver the goods. It is only when you want to use external hardware controllers, or send audio out and back via a loop with time compensation (as when routing to external rack gear), run sophisticated pitch correction (e.g. Melodyne) or use specific plugins that the "extra" 10% functions begin to matter.

Another one you can try out is TRACKTION. This is a nice program that is pretty much all on one screen with a left-right workflow. Quite different. It was purchased (and badly messed up) by Mackie for a while, but is now independent again. 

http://www.tracktion.com

Version 5.0 is due out in just a few days time, at NAMM (should be on their site 23 Jan).

Reaper... Tracktion... Studio One... all have their strengths/weaknesses, but bottom line is you can make great recordings on any of them. 

The only one I really don't like much is Cubase. Never could get on with its "look and feel". Not a fan of Ableton Live, either.

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## WrapAround

I use Apogee Duet2 on Mac and Edirol/Roland UA101 on Windows. They are not fancy but sound relatively "colorless", which is what I want. I stopped using MAudio interfaces a few years ago since they are noisy and the driver support/update was terrible.

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## jasona

I have not tried to do anything with Ableton Live yet but it is a clunky interface and it seems to have an annoying tendency to lag out my system when launched. I have it installed on a relatively high end 3D modeling work station with scads of RAM and processing power too so IDK. I did spend some time with tutorials last night and should be able to figure it out, but annoyingly the version 9 it prompted me to download after installing version 8.5 which came with my interface didn't overwrite the previous version. Didn't even install it to the same folder! So when I launched the application to register it BOTH versions started. I have tracked with Audacity in the past and it was ok enough but seemed a bit unintuitive. Thanks for the other suggestions. Since I am basically coming at this with no preconceptions for how it SHOULD work so this left to right approach might be just the ticket

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## TonyP

yup, I agree. I've learned my lesson with M-audio too. I thought it was my speakers(Hafler) but it turns out since going to the Focusrite, it was the darned 1010. And they don't support the mobilepre anymore so no drivers. The 2i2 is way better than either one of the M-audio's. Expensive lesson as all this stuff is.

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## Don Grieser

Reaper has a fully working demo, a great forum, a very fair price, no stupid copy protection schemes, and developers who listen to their users for fixes/new features. Plus, the devs write efficient code--you can run it off a USB stick drive. No gobs of loops either that you will probably never need. Worth a look.

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## foldedpath

Regarding DAW software choices, I've been recommending Audacity as a free introduction, then Reaper as the best inexpensive ($60 USD) DAW that will do probably 90% of what most people here will need.

After that, I think you need some experience under your belt to choose the "best" DAW if something like Reaper isn't doing what you need. 

I like Samplitude Pro X (a little expensive) or Sequoia (ridiculously expensive) because I'm sometimes called to do classical projects with tons of micro edits. The "object oriented" and four-point editing features are't found in other programs, but you don't need that if you don't do heavy editing. Other folks might work more heavily with Midi and soft synths, and there are other packages probably better suited for that. I don't like Protools, for more reasons than are worth going into here, but I'd grit my teeth and use it, if Ihad to transfer projects frequently back and forth to other studios. 

Plenty of good choices out there, but I don't think you can go wrong with Reaper as a first step up from Audacity or other free/introductory software.

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## jasona

Awesome, thanks. Reaper was the first DAW that a sound engineer buddy on another forum didn't turn his nose up at, so this sounds like an excellent option for me for now. Heck, Audacity can probably do most of what I want at this point. Once I get more experience maybe I'll try the Abelton Live package, but it really seems geared to DJs/Dance music from what I have learned.

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## almeriastrings

Yes - that's Ableton's strength. Don't get me started on its weaknesses  :Wink: 

Most of what I do is 'straight' audio recording and editing. I don't need much in the way of MIDI, or score editing, or looping, or built-in synths and drum machines. I like to mix on a real console, 'out of the box' - so need that functionality.  I like a clear, uncluttered interface and good waveform editing facilities. I don't like 'bloated' programs. I run everything on Macs, so that rules some things out (and others in).

Lots of good DAW systems out there these days.

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## jasona

ok so gave things an initial set up. Was able to directly monitor the mic--mandolin sounds not unlike a mandolin, a bit of the lower end is missing but I expect that is a matter of mic placement. Get best results slightly below the treble f hole; at the neck body join there is too much pick click for my liking even if the tone is fuller.

Cannot get Reaper (or Audacity for that matter) to accept the mic as input nor can I hear the click track. I am obviously doing something wrong in the set up, but didn't really mess with it for long.

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## almeriastrings

Not sure if you are on a Mac or PC?

But, in general, initial setup is a two stage process.

First - configure the audio device. This means selecting the interface as the device in use. Most systems default to the internal sound card. You need to change that so they 'see' the external interface and use that instead. Often, you have to specify the exact inputs and outputs to use. This depends somewhat on the operating system. Usually this is found under a 'Preferences' tab.

Second - within the DAW program you again need to specify which inputs to use for each channel. Often, there is a little button or tab you can click on each channel header... to say, "Channel One" use mic input one, or two, or whatever.

Look at your DAW instructions for AUDIO SETUP. Here's a walkthough for Reaper.

http://app.sliderocket.com/app/FullP...4-457C1E1D20D7

Slide one is strangely blank... go to slide 2 to start.

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## jasona

PC. Thanks for this, it was just a quick test (work is sadly piled high at the moment) and I hadn't read the manual. All 400 pages  :Frown:  I hadn't changed the sound card in the OS but had done in the DAW so that is probably it.

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## jasona

Got everything working today but do not have an acceptable recording to share yet. Its interesting hearing my mandolin through this system. Might be my really low end clam shell headphones but my mandolin records with a much more...I don't know, crystaline, sound than the high overtone and woofy bass I think it sounds live. Not unpleasant mind, just different than I was expecting. Could it be the voicing of this mic? We'll see once I get something to share.

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## foldedpath

Your mandolin will never sound in a recording like it does live, when playing it in a room. Never. 

Part of it is just the different location of your ears when playing, compared to microphone placement in front of the instrument. Get used to that. You can place mics at your ear level (there is a whole sub-branch of recording called "binaural recording" if you want to Google it), but that may not be the best way to record your mandolin, and few recordings are actually done this way.

The art of recording isn't so much about capturing exactly what your ears hear in a room, as it is in creating the _impression_ that it sounds something like that. And there are all sorts of tricks we use, that can make it sound _better_ than it actually does in the room. You also have to cope with the fact that whoever listens to your recording, will be using wildly different playback gear -- anything from cheap earbuds, to computer speakers, to high-end audio systems.

Keep experimenting, because that's the only way to get there! If it's any consolation, this revelation that recordings don't sound at all like what you imagine you hear when performing, is much, much worse for singers than it is for instrumentalists.
 :Wink:

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## jasona

Oh I will for sure. The one hugely positive thing I have learned from this quick session (work has been hammering me of late so I have had precious little time with my mandolin in past weeks) is that if anything it is *easier* to play monitoring the mandolin. It is much more responsive than I usually hear from above and behind. And I find that oddly relaxing, despite the fact I might have pressed "play"

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## Mike Bunting

And don't forget to experiment with mic placement.

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## Denman John

Loving this thread ~ thanks everyone for sharing your insight.

If you want to do stereo recording with 2 mics, would you get 2 small condensers (AKG Perception 170), or a small condenser and a large condenser? 

One question regarding the Focusrite 2i4 ~ can you run a line into it using a piezo pickup along with the microphones?

I am totally new to this and am starting to look into recording and buying some gear.  Great recommendations here!

Thanks
John

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## almeriastrings

... and know you also realise why there is  that old saying never to judge a book by its cover, and even more to the point, never judge a mandolin by just a recording!

For stereo, to start I'd get a pair of SDC's. You can play with different setups, X/Y, spaced pairs, etc., and they are very versatile. Also good quality ones around at very good prices these days. Check the new Rode M5's.... looking very attractive at that price point. Just got a very good review in Sound on Sound. 

The 2i4 has a pair of dual Jack/XLR inputs on the front. Beneath each is little switch that you can slide from 'Line' to 'Instrument'. The 'Instrument' position is really intended for electric guitars, but it does have a 1M input impedance which is (just about) enough for some passive piezo transducers, and the gain is adequate. In other words, it should work, but you might get better performance by using a separate very high impedance external preamp (>5M+) and going in with the input set to 'Line'. Obviously, if you have an 'active' transducer it would be fine anyway. Prime caveat is that recording from transducers is not generally going to produce very natural sounding results, but can be used as an "effect".

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## shortymack

IMO a DAW/XLR setup is the way to go for a number of reasons. It does depend however what you will be using it for and how its used. Just like playing there is an art to recording as well and YMMV. Personally I have gotten by with the dreaded USB mic and adobe audition but would like to have a 'real' setup sometime but it gets the job done for me and what I need so far. Have never had any negative comments or criticism on my recordings, as a matter of fact a couple years ago a couple people on the UMGF (unoffical martin guitar forum) said one of my tracks was one of the best sounding representation of an adi topped guitar they ever heard on a soundbite. {bearclawed is the title of it if you are interested in listening on my link}

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## jasona

> And don't forget to experiment with mic placement.


I have done some placement experimentation, using the information here as a general first guide. Of course I am open to additional suggestions! Right now I have the slightly below and pointing at the lower F hole about 6-8 inches away.

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## foldedpath

> If you want to do stereo recording with 2 mics, would you get 2 small condensers (AKG Perception 170), or a small condenser and a large condenser?


Ditto what Almeriastrings said: I'd get two small diaphragm condensers, of the same make and model. 

Ideally, they should be bought as a "matched pair" (tested and certified as such by the manufacturer), but you won't find low cost mics sold this way. When you're starting out, it's enough to just buy from a reputable brand that sells a low-cost line, like AKG and Audio-Technica. I would avoid cheap Chinese off-brand mics when you're looking for a stereo pair, because those are liable to be more inconsistent in sound off the assembly line. 

A pair of small diaphragm condenser mics will let you experiment with two of the classic stereo techniques used to mic solo instruments -- "X/Y"and "Spaced Pair" (which is sometimes called "A-B"). You can also try "ORTF," but that's usually used for more distant recording of larger sources like quartets, choirs, and orchestras. 

If you branch out later to other types of mics like ribbon mics, large diaphragm mics, or vacuum tube varieties of any of these types, it's still nice to have a pair of small condensers handy for things like room mics for capturing ambient sound. It's a good basic starter set of mics in your tool kit.

I would only recommend getting a large diaphragm mic as your second purchase if you'll be recording vocals, as well as acoustic instruments. You can certainly record great vocals with a small diaphragm condenser. It's actually one of the classic mics used for opera singers. But generally speaking, people use large diaphragm mics for recording vocals in most Pop music and related genres, That's because some of the drawbacks for recording acoustic instruments, like slightly smeared transients and less accurate off-axis response, are actually what people like to hear for vocals. Large diaphragm mics are also often tuned for a "big" sound for vocals, which may not be appropriate for instruments. 

A large diaphragm mic can work well in Spaced Pair stereo recording with a small diaphragm condenser, because the mics are capturing different parts of the instrument's response (this can be especially helpful with guitars). But it's not so great for coincident techniques like X/Y, due to the tone mismatch between the two mics. So, you _can_ use it as one side of a stereo pair, it's just more limiting than starting out with two small diaphragm mics.

There is another technique where large diaphragm mics are used for stereo called M/S (Mid-Side), but that's getting into more advanced stuff, and more expensive mics, because it has to be a multi-pattern design. Don't worry about M/S for now.

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## mandroid

FWIW, Rode has NT5 packaged matched  SD condensers , sequential serial numbers .. 

http://www.rodemic.com/mics/nt5-mp   and in singles 

Only have those as the  'decent' Mic ..  

since then their line has really expanded 

I see now those   M5 a lower priced paired   ones, I suppose ..

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## jasona

OK so for various reasons I have been away from this project. but today I started creating podcasts to replace in class lectures. However, despite making the OS changes and good sounding direct monitoring I could get no playback sound other than a terrible crackling hiss. Check site for updated drivers, download the latest packaged software, install, no go. So I put a call into tech support and made my pod cast with a cheap headset mic.

Get a call back and apparently the two software updates I have done since installing the interface did not include the correct file. Correct file (a USB driver of all things) installation later, and it is working like a dream. I literally cannot believe how good the sound quality this combination of hardware is providing!

And then I broke my clamshell headset.  :Grin:  Any recommendations for a reasonably inexpensive yet high audio sound set?

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## almeriastrings

> And then I broke my clamshell headset.  Any recommendations for a reasonably inexpensive yet high audio sound set?


For a semi-open design at a silly cheap price the Superlux HD-681 are outstanding:

http://www.amazon.com/Superlux-681-D.../dp/B002GHIPYI

Being-semi open you will get a bit of leakage if using for over-dubbing, however. For that, look instead at a closed design.

The HD-662 is more suitable for that. Worth shopping around as prices vary a lot.

Of the 'cheap' headphones, these are certainly among the best in my experience. If you up the budget to $100-$300 there are certainly superior headphones, but I have seen both of these for at low as $25 each - and for that money, they are actually pretty incredible.

----------

jasona

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## AW Meyer

Jason, a few years ago I picked up a set of Sennheiser HD 477 phones. I got them at Future Shop for around $100. They are excellent phones for not a lot of money. The 477's don't seem to be around anymore, but I would check Future Shop for some comparably-priced Sennheiser phones, like these, perhaps:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...f094d840a1en02

----------

jasona

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## jasona

Thanks for these suggestions. I checked out the Superlux link and saw that with shipping to Canada I was in the $50-70 range. On a lark over lunch I stopped in at the new Long and McQuade near my morning work site just to see what they had. I was very pleased to see they have a podium set up with 30-40 different headsets plugged into an MP3 player. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats trying everything on and testing them out. Some models just do not fit my head. Others I was able to reject on one listen for lacking either top or bottom end. I tried to restrict myself to models between $33 and $175 and whereas there is generally an increase in quality of sound the more you spend, there were a few models in the midrange that really shone for me. All brands were well represented here except for Sony which uses their own distribution system here. All were tested listening to Rufus Wainwright's Jericho which has great dynamic range.



Biggest surprise was how well their house brand Apex performed. Their base level hard clam shell headset was perfectly acceptable to my ear, until I listened to some of the more expensive models. I almost walked out with a M100 (a Sony rip off) which had outstanding tone separation and thus the music was very up front and present, but in the end I decided the bottom end was just a shade lacking giving a tinny sound.

In the end I decided on the audio-technica ATH-M35. Whereas they lacked the top end crispness of more expensive headset monitors, they really performed well all around I thought, and at $70 seemed the best bang for the buck of the lot.

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## almeriastrings

Yes, those will be fine. A good solid little headset.

For tracking purposes you do not need deadly accuracy, just good isolation and resistance to leaking. Mixing on 'phones is a whole different ballgame. Often the most 'impressive' sounding models turn out to be the worst for that. You don't want anything over-emphasizing or suppressing. Just as much neutrality as possible. Open and semi-open designs tend to score well here. 

For tracking, my own preference is the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro (closed). Very comfortable, and sound fine. For mixing (monitors are still preferable), I like the Sennheiser HD600's (open).

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## jasona

Giving this headset some listening time, and the DGQ 20 year retrospective sounds outstanding!

I have read that headsets need a "burn in" time before they sound their best. Is this real?

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## wildpikr

> A couple of audio engineer types have strongly advised against a USB mic and instead get an interface/preamp and a Sure KM-57 or 58. I would like to entertain recommendations for which interface you all recommend. Looking for a sweet spot in terms of cost and quality, as I will not be recording masters or anything, but I would like better sound quality than the built in mic on my laptop


Just curious, why did they advise against a USB mic?

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## jasona

Sound quality, bang per buck, future expandability based on what I saw myself doing. Probably a bit of snobbishness too considering they both recommended a $400 mic for a "starter"

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wildpikr

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## bayAreaDude

I see you got the Focusrite, but if anyone else is still in the market, I really recommend the Roland Quad Capture.  What sets it apart in this class is the quality of the preamps.  They're the same models as they use in their pro level mixers that cost a couple g's.  It does some other cool things most alternatives in this price range don't such as regenerate it's own power, high Z, has a handy feature to help you set levels, and a very mature ASIO driver for windows, but the preamps just rock.  Loud and QUIET.  Case is metal and it feels like a real piece of studio equipment.  Oh, and it's got a compressor/limiter built into the driver which works really well and can be really convenient.  It's big brother (just more inputs) got a great review in TapeOp - http://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/82/oc...dio-interface/ .

A really good affordable small diaphragm condenser I like is an AKG C1000s.  Common to find these used for around $100.  I have a drawer full of mics, some more expensive than these, but the 2 of this model I have get the most use.

Another vote for Reaper.  I run it on an ancient laptop with 1G of ram and it's never slow.

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## jasona

Been away from the mandolin for various reasons (a concussion being a major one) but I am starting my practice routine again and will be posting some sound files in the next week or two as I get my coordination back. I'm particularly interested in your thoughts about mic placement and how it affects tone--specifically how to punch up the woody tones I hear live but can't seem to get quite to my liking.

This set up is continuing to work gangbusters for podcasts, although I need to experiment with mixing a pseudo stereo sound for voice overs.

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## mandroid

Further surfing, I see This one  .. http://www.rodemic.com/microphones/nt-usb

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## almeriastrings

Like most USB mics, it has limitations:

"A/D converter 16bit 48kHz"

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## John L

> Alesis i03 - 4 channels in and USB out


Make that Alesis i04 - sorry - I think this interface works great

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