# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  eBay sales tax

## mandolinstew

Why is ebay charging sales tax on out of state purchases?You can go to reverb and make the same purchase from the same seller and no sales tax.Ebay claims they are collecting on behalf of the seller.I contacted the seller and they do not collect sales tax and eBay is not notifying the seller of any sales tax.

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## HonketyHank

I don't know if Reverb is, right now, adding sales tax. But I know they will be if they aren't already. I listed something there and I got notified that it would happen if the buyer had a mailing address in certain states.

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Bill Kammerzell

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## mandolinstew

> I don't know if Reverb is, right now, adding sales tax. But I know they will be if they aren't already. I listed something there and I got notified that it would happen if the buyer had a mailing address in certain states.


Im gonna call eBay tomorrow.I see that amazon is charging sales tax on some sales now.

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## Marty Jacobson

Etsy is also collecting sales tax on some, if not all, sales. May depend on the state. 

Not sure if any of them are actually paying sales tax, that's a whole other question...

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## Jeff Mando

FWIW, I recently bought some strings on eBay from Musician's Friend.  I really didn't care who the seller was, I just sorted by the best price with free shipping and clicked.  Even though the seller address on the item page didn't say my state, I was charged sales tax by MF because they claimed to have a store in my state????  Needless to say I wasn't happy.  Granted it was just a few cents on strings, but it turned out to no longer being the best price, when the sales tax was considered -- which was the whole point....

Something to consider, if you are making a larger purchase from MF.  In fact, I considered it downright UNfriendly.......

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## Explorer

Yup, if your home state collects sales tax, then websites which allow selling to those states are required to collect and deliver such tax to your state. Being more precise, you also are supposed to do it if your state collects sales tax and a website doesn't do it for you

Amazon and eBay been doing it a while. Reverb does it occasionally.

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Timbofood

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## mandolinstew

I’m lucky to have some great stores nearby (Not the three guitar centers)and have bought great mandolins and guitars that I played.I wish I knew this was coming I would have stocked up on string.I had to close my bank account to close my PayPal account and am going back to cash at local stores.Money orders if I need to.Good thing I have my mandolins and don’t need to buy any more.

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## MikeZito

Here in Connecticut the state taxes you on just about anything that you can imagine - including out-of-state and internet purchases.  Being a relatively honest guy, I used to keep a tally on my internet purchases and add them to my state income tax every year . . . but now that the websites are collecting the taxes for me, I can save time on that reporting hassle, next April 15th.

However, on the other side of the coin - it's starting to look like George Orwell, more and more every day . . . .

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## pops1

For decades if you bought something from another state and didn't pay sales tax you are legally supposed to pay use tax, which is the same thing. It has never been enforced, so this is a way to collect what states are missing out on I guess.

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John Van Zandt

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## Doug Brock

> For decades if you bought something from another state and didn't pay sales tax you are legally supposed to pay use tax, which is the same thing. It has never been enforced, so this is a way to collect what states are missing out on I guess.


If everybody has to pay sales tax on Internet sales, it will also help level the playing field for local stores.

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Greg P. Stone, 

jim simpson, 

John Van Zandt, 

THart

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## slimt

> If everybody has to pay sales tax on Internet sales, it will also help level the playing field for local stores.


True.   But most local stores dont have the goods that people want. And most wont go out of there way to get those certain goods. So  that being said.  The internet shopping is not bad ,theres a wide assortment of stuff to be had. And ebay collects sales tax on Canadas provinces behalf .

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## DaveGinNJ

> If everybody has to pay sales tax on Internet sales, it will also help level the playing field for local stores.


Agree.  I dont want to pay more but not collecting sales tax for out of state purchases puts brick and mortar stores at a disadvantage.

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Doug Brock

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## Doug Brock

> True.   But most local stores dont have the goods that people want. And most wont go out of there way to get those certain goods. So  that being said.  The internet shopping is not bad ,theres a wide assortment of stuff to be had. And ebay collects sales tax on Canadas provinces behalf .


The selection available from Internet shopping is tough to beat, but I know folks who go to Best Buy to try out camera gear, then order from B&H or Adorama to save the taxes. I'm sure the same thing has put some music stores out of business.

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## Marty Jacobson

> The selection available from Internet shopping is tough to beat, but I know folks who go to Best Buy to try out camera gear, then order from B&H or Adorama to save the taxes. I'm sure the same thing has put some music stores out of business.


Speaking of B&H, they have a new credit card which credits you for the sales tax which you now have to pay in any state when ordering from them. So if you run a production company or something, you could potentially save thousands each year. Me, I just bought a new camera - an A7 II, lol, and a bunch of used Zeiss glass, not so lol - so I'm set for the next ten years.

(Oh, it has a 30% APR, so don't carry a balance on that one...)

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## Louise NM

Sales taxes fund parks, police and fire departments, roads, museums, and everything else in our cities and states. I want a bargain as much as anyone else, but . . .

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40bpm

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## Greg P. Stone

I'm a CPA. For the longest time whether a business selling into another state had to collect sales tax was a function of their presence in that state. If Guitar Center had a store in your state then they were held to be directly benefiting from that state's sales tax and thus any store shipping into that state had to collect it. Since B&H was only in New York they had an advantage. The legal term for this presence is "nexus" and the term began to stretch, particularly when the Weekly Reader case a half century ago concluded that the elementary school teachers collecting payments from the children for book orders were agents of Weekly Reader despite not getting any remuneration.

The big trend in the last few decades is states getting together and passing laws to require sales tax collection in every state in the agreement. 

Actually, everyone who buys something out of state is required to pay the sales tax directly to their state by filing a Use Tax return. Politically it was apparently decided that this would not be enforced along with making garage sales collect sales tax.

At any rate, it's just a matter of time before all states mandate collecting sales tax for all other states. I've been retired for 13 years and so haven't kept up with the latest developments but presume them to be a continuation of a very long-term trend.

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John Van Zandt

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## mandolin tony

the little guy all ways gets screwed.  the big fat cats have offshore banking, pay little or no income tax. why does this surprise anyone this is just another way to squeeze the last dollar out of the little folk. so just open up your wallets & let them dip into it & take what they want. plus what I would like to know is what are they doing with all this extra tax dollars ?, fixing the highways, schools ?, maybe feeding the hunger ?.

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## Mandobar

The advent of Internet sales, and the expansion of these resources have brought the collection of state sales tax to the forefront.  

Each state will provide you with how they use the dollars collected from each of their revenue streams.  It is a matter of public record.  Look on their individual treasury department websites for this data.

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## mandolin tony

Mary I would really like to believe you. but it is really hard when your going east on the grand central parkway & you cross over into Nassau county, one of the highest taxing county's in the country & you hit nothing but pot holes. its almost like being in a 3rd world country. there is no more bargains on eBay anymore if you have to pay taxes on mandolin strings & things.

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## MikeEdgerton

There's an easy answer to this quandary. Buy only from companies and individuals in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon. Then it will be a non-issue for you.

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Bill Kammerzell

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## jim simpson

I just paid tax on my recent purchase. I guess for WV and other states, this recently went into effect. My paypal is tied to my credit card. I like to make purchases when I have the cash to pay off my balance. This tax surprise had me carrying a balance. I guess the shoe was going to fall sooner or later.

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## Mandobar

> There's an easy answer to this quandary. Buy only from companies and individuals in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon. Then it will be a non-issue for you.


Mike, if you live in N.J. and buy from a company in NH, you are required to pay N.J. sales tax.  Thats always been the law, but the seller was never required to collect the tax when they collected payment for the sale.  You were supposed to voluntarily pay the sales tax to N.J.  Now, since Amazon wanted to set up warehouses everywhere they set the precedence in agreeing to collect sales tax across the board.  They unwittingly dragged all retailers and sellers with them regardless where the transaction initiates from.  

I once bought two Caltons from a dealer in Canada, shipped to me in N.J., where I was living at the time.  Two years later I got a letter from the State of N.J. stating that I owed them not only the sales tax on that sale, but a penalties and interest.  Then Governor Corzine had the treasury dept in N.J. tracking these transactions through customs records and assessing the tax, interest and penalties.

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## Mandobar

> Mary I would really like to believe you. but it is really hard when your going east on the grand central parkway & you cross over into Nassau county, one of the highest taxing county's in the country & you hit nothing but pot holes. its almost like being in a 3rd world country. there is no more bargains on eBay anymore if you have to pay taxes on mandolin strings & things.



Tony, every state has a budget, and must declare where their monies are collected and spent, and report these through their financial statements.  They follow somewhat the same accounting rules that companies do.  If you dig through their reports you will see where the money is spent.  

I gave up on eBay years ago.  As for potholes, I grew up in one of the wealthiest counties in the country.  On my last trip back I have to admit, the roads were in terrible shape, like something out of World of Warcraft.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Mike, if you live in N.J. and buy from a company in NH, you are required to pay N.J. sales tax...


You mean that question they have on the state tax returns? I always answer that question truthfully. This is New Jersey, who would ever think of not paying their taxes.

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## Bill Kammerzell

*Reverb is only collecting based on where the buyer lives and in certain states. Here's an email I received in early July.*

Reminder About US Sales Tax Collection
Reverb will soon collect sales tax from buyers in all *Marketplace Facilitator* states. When you sell to Marketplace Facilitator states, Reverb is responsible for collecting and remitting sales taxes on your behalf. No action is required on your part. Reverb will start collecting sales tax from buyers in Marketplace Facilitator states on the following dates:

Washington 	Now
Minnesota 	Now
Pennsylvania 	7/17/2019
New Jersey 	7/17/2019
Arizona 	7/17/2019
South Carolina 	7/17/2019
Connecticut 	7/17/2019
Alabama 	7/17/2019
Oklahoma 	7/17/2019
Iowa 	7/17/2019
Washington DC 	7/17/2019
South Dakota 	7/17/2019
Wyoming 	7/17/2019
Additional Information
To learn more about how this affects you as a Reverb Seller, please read this article or visit the taxes section of our Help Center.

This information is intended to inform you of upcoming tax changes. For tax advice, you should contact a tax professional.
*From what I have read, in most states, the seller has to have a brick and mortar facility. But not in these so called "Marketplace Facilitator" states.*  :Confused:

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## William Smith

Yep all true, I recently made a hefty purchase about two weeks ago from Elderly-Michigan and I live in Pennsylvania, I had to pay sales tax on my buy, over 3G in tax! Can I right that off-LoL! I wasn't impressed as never heard of that before and the guys at Elderly said its across the board now and all states will be doing this! Nuts for sure on a vintage instrument I personally think but hey every time one buys and sells an old/new car its the same-tax on what the blue book value is even if the car is gifted!

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## Marty Jacobson

> even if the car is gifted!


Don't give them any ideas...

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## mandolin tony

I think the next time I want to buy a mandolin. I will just have to take a road trip to a store like the mandolin store, & just pay all cash in small bills.

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## MikeEdgerton

> I think the next time I want to buy a mandolin. I will just have to take a road trip to a store like the mandolin store, & just pay all cash in small bills.


Arizona has a sales tax. You need to go to Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, or Oregon. Then you won't be charged the tax up front.

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## Mandobar

It’s sad, because there are so few stores in New Hampshire that sell mandolins, especially high end stores.  In fact, I believe only Northern Lights in Littleton sustains any kind of inventory, and it is mostly guitars.

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## julyboy

> Why is ebay charging sales tax on out of state purchases?You can go to reverb and make the same purchase from the same seller and no sales tax.Ebay claims they are collecting on behalf of the seller.I contacted the seller and they do not collect sales tax and eBay is not notifying the seller of any sales tax.


I noticed that also just recently. It also appears Musician's Friend is doing that also in certain states. _<Redacted for political content out of bounds of the posting guidelines.>_

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## DougC

Do you pay tax on Amazon purchases? It is just a matter of time before the whole internet commerce gets organized. It has nothing to do with politics. (Or do you want a flaming war about greedy Republicans vs Tax and Spend Democrats?) That is not allowed on this discussion board...back to mandolin topics everyone.

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## pops1

By law if you get something from out of state and don't pay sales tax you are supposed to pay use tax (which is the same) and submit it with your tax return. Few people do it and it has not been enforced in the past. This is just enforcing existing laws that have been on the books for decades.

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## Marty Jacobson

> By law if you get something from out of state and don't pay sales tax you are supposed to pay use tax (which is the same) and submit it with your tax return. Few people do it and it has not been enforced in the past. This is just enforcing existing laws that have been on the books for decades.


It's a result of a 2018 Supreme Court ruling (S Dakota vs Wayfair) overturning the original 1992 decision which said that stores had to have a physical presence in the state for it to be mandatory that the retailer collect tax on online purchases. Now the state gets to decide if they are going to require the retailer to collect it or not.

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## HonketyHank

It's a rant.

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DougC

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## JEStanek

Lets tread carefully folks.  I have the keys ready for this one.

Jamie

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MikeEdgerton

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## William Smith

Reverb is doing the tax thing as well as a friend recently bought an old pedal steel and had to pay sales tax?

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## JEStanek

From E-Bay. 
Why.

Jamie

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Bob Clark

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## DougC

If I understand that notice from EBay _customers_ from Pennsylvania, Washington and Oklahoma have to pay tax and EBay will do the collections. That's a total 'flip' from requiring SELLERS to collect tax, based on where they are located. Is this correct?

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## pops1

> It's a result of a 2018 Supreme Court ruling (S Dakota vs Wayfair) overturning the original 1992 decision which said that stores had to have a physical presence in the state for it to be mandatory that the retailer collect tax on online purchases. Now the state gets to decide if they are going to require the retailer to collect it or not.


The new law may decide who should collect sales tax. I am talking about USE tax. If you don't pay sales tax you are supposed to pay use tax, which is at the same rate. You send it in at the end of the year with your income tax and calculate for all purchases you didn't play sales tax. Just that most folks don't even know about it, and don't do it. It also wasn't enforced.

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DougC

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## yankees1

Eventually will happen !

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## julyboy

I agree with you William but we know where and from whom these taxes are coming. I just can not say it on this forum or my post will be redacted like the last one.

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## Scott Rucker

I work for a state taxing agency, so I will be careful about what I say and how I say it here.  I AM NOT speaking as a representative of my employer here.  Always check with your state or local taxing agency if you have a question or concern.

I decided to delete the rest of the comment as it probably isn't a good idea for me to be publicly commenting on this subject.

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## Bill Kammerzell

Recently Reverb sent me an updated list of states that will now charge buyers sales tax on purchases and Reverb will be collecting it for them.

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## Bill McCall

> Recently Reverb sent me an updated list of states that will now charge buyers sales tax on purchases and Reverb will be collecting it for them.


That's nice.  What are they?

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## Bill Kammerzell

> That's nice.  What are they?


Alabama, Arizona, Connecticut, Iowa, Kentucky, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Washington DC, West Virginia, and Wyoming. That was as of March 8th 2019. They just added a few more. Can't find that info but when I do I'll update this. Found it. Add in Arkansas, New Mexico, Rhode Island, and Indiana. Ohio will soon be added. Anytime you want to find an updated list, I believe you can Google, "Marketplace Facilitator States."

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Bill McCall

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## Bob Clark

> Anytime you want to find an updated list, I believe you can Google, "Marketplace Facilitator States."


Now that's funny.  "Marketplace _Facilitator_ States"?  Talk about spin.  Sounds like they are doing something to help the marketplace.

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## Bill Kammerzell

> Now that's funny.  "Marketplace _Facilitator_ States"?  Talk about spin.  Sounds like they are doing something to help the marketplace.


Correct. That's how they list themselves. It is funny, I guess until someone pays the tax.

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## Bill Kammerzell

Back in 2016 I was buying a pretty expensive mandolin in Nashville. They had a sales tax there on the North side of 10% IIRC. We settled on a price. We we're leaving the next morning. The following day we drove to Virginia and stayed the night outside of Blacksburg. I called, spoke with the same salesperson and the mandolin was still there and he said he'd stick by the agreed price. There was no sales tax involved as I wasn't in the store. Because I purchased it over the phone I likely save around $700.00 in sales tax. It did cost $50.00 to ship.  :Laughing:  :Cool:

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## Bill Kammerzell

Living in Maryland I'm kind of glad they only charge tax on items purchased where the seller has a brick and mortar presence in the state.

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## Bill Kammerzell

As I have been reading this stuff, the way I see it. You must be a buyer and have a mailing address in one of these states. Other than that, I don't know that I would have to pay the sales tax unless the seller had a brick and mortar presence in my state.

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## timmandolin

Most of these companies have to start charging sales tax on certain transactions because of the Supreme Court's ruling in the WayFair Nexus case. 

"On June 21, 2018, the US Supreme Court decided what is arguably the most important state tax case of the last 25 years in Wayfair et. al.1 In a 54 split decision, the majority overruled the brightest of state tax bright-line rules in overturning the sales/use tax nexus standard of physical presence previously established in National Bellas Hess (1967) and later upheld in Quill (1992)."

There's a lot to break down in this, but basically it invalidates the old out-of-state rules and requires companies to charge sales tax for where the products are being delivered. Obviously, it's much more complicated than that, but that's the gist. Look up South Dakota v. Wayfair if you want more info. I assure you, it's a boring read.  :Smile:

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## sonnyjammer

Well I read all of this, perhaps a bit off topic, but my question now, Are we supposed to pay sales tax on mandolins we buy here on the cafe from Individual sellers ?

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## Arkstone

_Moderator Edit: Suspicious post deleted. Please contact Administrator. _

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