# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  L.R. BAGGS RADIUS PICKUP - Your Thoughts

## Mercantiller

Anyone have any thoughts about the LR Baggs Radius pick-up? Looks interesting. I've read a few positive reviews, but looking for more info.

Any other suggestions for a pick-up?

Thanks.

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## mandroid

N.B. .. if you need more feedback on pickups in general and the Radius in particular, 
you are not the first to ask that Question, 
archives  of prior posts abound ... 

I've had a Schertler Dyn M for some years,  a nice balanced signal  to my Amp 
[A Roland AC-60]  into its built in Microphone preamp.
recent acquisition included a mandolin with the installed variant,
the C-Dyn-S from the same Swiss Company.

 :Popcorn:

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## herbsandspices

What Mandroid said:

L.r. baggs radius
L.r. baggs radius pick-up
Radius or schertler
Lr baggs mando pickup

-john

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## Barb Friedland

Hi there,
I have been using a Radius and am happy with it. I'm running it through a Baggs Para Acoustic DI. While the Schertler may be a better pick-up in some ways it is also much more expensive. I play amplified now and then so for me, the Radius was the intelligent choice.

Let us now what you wind up with.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Big Joe

We have installed several of the Baggs Radius pickup.  I like them better than anything else I've seen.  They seem to have a much better tone.  That is just our opinion, but we have experimented with nearly every brand.  We will use whichever the end user wants, but we have begun to recommend the Radius for many (not all) applications.

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## Buffalo Sam

How does the lr baggs radius pickup compare to the AKG C411 stick-on condensor mic?

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## Tim2723

Remember that the Baggs Radius, Schertler Dyn family, and condenser mics like the AKG are all different technologies.  Not always as straight-forward a comparison as one might expect.

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## Folkmusician.com

The LR Baggs Radius is my current favorite. I have been installing a lot of these.  I highly recomend it be pared to a good preamp, such as the Para DI (or any quailty Acoustic preamp), but it can be used without one with fair results dpending on the amp/PA you run it into.

That AKG looks interesting. I would like to give that a test.   :Smile:

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## Amandalyn

I've had good results with the Radius, you need to find the sweet spot on your mandolin, it can be installed externally or internally. I like the external setup so you can remove it. This pickup also works great on ukes.

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## foldedpath

> How does the lr baggs radius pickup compare to the AKG C411 stick-on condensor mic?


Disclaimer: I haven't used either one, but don't be misled by the word "mic" for the AKG product. Anything stuck directly to the surface of a mandolin is going to sound more like a pickup than what we usually think a microphone sounds like. Any contact location can only hear a very small part of the total instrument sound, and it completely misses the sound of the air mass resonating inside the body cavity. 

Pickups are a great solution if you play on a loud stage and need maximum feedback rejection. If you're looking for a more natural, microphone-like sound, and the stage isn't roaring loud, then there are several good mini condenser mics with little gooseneck mounts that can clip onto different parts of the instrument. I've used the Audio Technica ATM350 in the past, and currently use a DPA 4099. Some other Cafe members are using the K&K Silver Bullet, or the Audio Technica Pro 35, a less expensive alternative to the ATM350. Search the threads here with those keywords and you'll find a bunch of information about the pros and cons, but to summarize...

Clip-on mics can be a little more complicated than a pickup. Most will need phantom power, and they're a little more prone to feedback, although that can be controlled if you know the basics of running a PA system. They're still better in feedback rejection than using an external mic on a stand. In most cases they have to be attached and removed, which is less convenient than an installed pickup, but this applies to the stick-on pickups also. Clip-on mics also work very well with wireless systems.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention the actual mic option. Discussion of how to amplify a mandolin here on the Cafe often focus exclusively on pickups, and that's not the only way to solve the problem. Especially if you're looking for the most realistic, natural sound. Check out videos of the Punch Brothers on YouTube for a band that uses this approach on all the instruments (except for maybe the bass).

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## mandroid

Shertler Basik, and AKG C411 are both in a electaret condenser type mech category, Both active ,
ie as there is power source needed to charge the plates in there..
so they may be comparable.. 

Bags radius is ultra high impedance like a piezo type, a passive source, shaken it makes a tiny electric current.  like a Piezoelectric wafer, the stuf generates a signal when moves or flexed.
 Like a passive piezo, seems they all buy a preamp too, you need to run those signal types thru a buffer circuit , and a preamp offers that  + some tone and a local volume control 
.. one also from Baggs perhaps?

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## jnosler

I have a question on internal installation for a Baggs Radius. I have it on the outside, exactly as suggested on the box, going north-south by the E strings below the bridge. The questions for you all who have installed these; should I try to match the location if I stick it to the inside in the exact spot or turn in 90 and center between all the strings? Will the pads that came with it be the best way to adhere it to the wood? How tricky is it to do and mount the end pin?  I am about a 6 on a 10 scale of competence with tools, and would never undertake fret work or anything too crafty. Should I find a local pro to install it? I am in Austin, TX. Thank you!

My instrument is a Mid Mo A Style. 

jn

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## mandotim1955

I have both the Baggs Radius and the AKG C411 for use on a Fern that I don't want to drill for internal installation. I have a K&K mandolin twin on another mando, and a Rigel with their proprietary pickup. Of these four, the Baggs comes last in terms of gigging use. It has a 'boxy' tone, and is extremely prone to handling noise and feedback when using floor wedge monitors. The technology is very clever, and I was hoping for much better results. I use the C411 through a Headway EDB1 preamp for gigging; when EQ'd properly, this gives a pretty good tone, without the 'piezo quack' that many pickups suffer from. The C411 works in much the same way as a boundary mic placed on a vibrating surface. It is a mic, but not in the conventional sense. The K&K is marginally better than the C411 (although installed internally with a jack output through the end pin), and for sheer tone, the Rigel is the best of all. I wouldn't dream of using any of them for recording; that's best left to a good condenser mic. All of this depends on the tone you are looking for; I'm looking for a fairly dry, woody bluegrass sound, but requirements may be different if you want that ringing, bell-like sound. Anybody in the UK want to buy a used Baggs Radius?
Tim

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## Amandalyn

The L.R. Baggs rep told me at IBMA a few years back, that a well known player turned the radius at a 90 degree angle than what is recommended, he got a much better tone. Don't know much about internal installation, but you can call the company and see what they suggest, they are easy to talk to.

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## Timothy S

Guess I'll throw my 2 cents in the mix.

I haven't had any firsthand experience with the L.R. Baggs Radius, though I just finished my own search for a reasonably priced pickup. I went with the K&K Twin internal based on the recommendation of my tech. He seemed convinced that if offered more volume, better tone, and less feedback problems than the Baggs. 

So far I've been happy with it. It's of course no replacement for a killer condenser mic in a studio setting sound wise, but at the end of the day, when I'm playing with a large, loud group, and after the mix goes through the board and all the hoopla, I'd say it sounds just fine. A small investment for reducing the hassle of playing out. 

I hope your search goes well. Always trust _your_ ears!

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## Folkmusician.com

> Will the pads that came with it be the best way to adhere it to the wood? How tricky is it to do and mount the end pin? I am about a 6 on a 10 scale of competence with tools, and would never undertake fret work or anything too crafty. Should I find a local pro to install it?


The adhesive that comes with it is good stuff. As long as you do not have a lot of dust on the top and you get stick it on with one try, it will hold well.

The endpin can be a little tricky if you have never done it. I use a reamer.  It is dangerous with a normal drill bit as the drill bit will want to catch and tear through the end block. This can crack the endblock.  Also be careful of your bracing. On a flat top, there may be bracing in the path that you drill/ream. Once the whole is drilled, there is some trial and error to get the correct endpin just right to tighten it up with the correct amount of threads exposed.  You will also want to shorten the cable so the excess is not flapping around inside the mandolin.  The good news is that this is much easier on an oval hole than an F-hole.   :Smile: 

The big downside to the LR Baggs radius, is the installation (if installed internally).  In a standard F-hole mandolin, you have to make a tool to install it in the correct position.  I have seen quite a few get stuck on near the F hole, which is not correct.  This is true of any single head pickup.

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## mandopete

> I went with the K&K Twin internal based on the recommendation of my tech. He seemed convinced that if offered more volume, better tone, and less feedback problems than the Baggs.


Is that a pickup than can be installed yourself or does it require a tech to do it?  Just scanning through these threads trying to sort out options for installing a pickup.  I have recently come into a situation that will require a pickup for a mandolin and I'm looking for something quick and easy and it seems like the Baggs would be the answer.

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## Timothy S

You can install it yourself. K&K has instructions in the box and online. I, however, am not very comfortable doing installations so I decided to pony up the extra cash and have my tech install it and rework the setup at the same time (which he offered to do for free. What a swell guy!)

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## mandroid

FWIW the pickup on my Mix [another brand] is installed against the tone bar , under the bridge foot, 
just inside the F hole on the treble  side ,
  so a  place  it there with your fingers, install,  is pretty convenient , 
 Run the cord out to a Carpenter jack ,Tapastring jack, or a reamed to fit a 1/4" jack is an open option.

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## mandopete

> FWIW the pickup on my Mix [another brand] is installed against the tone bar , under the bridge foot, 
> just inside the F hole on the treble  side ,
>   so a  place  it there with your fingers, install,  is pretty convenient , 
>  Run the cord out to a Carpenter jack ,Tapastring jack, or a reamed to fit a 1/4" jack is an open option.


Any chance of a photo of that, I'm having a hard time visualizing it.  For me I think I'll end up with something simple that attaches to the top of the instrument like the Baggs.  I'm curious if others have played around with the placement or just gone with what's in their photo.

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## mandroid

Here is a picture of a Mix A5, not mine, but thats what they look like

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/63539 black inside and out so hard to show inside of one. 

that one doesnt have the pickup so the button on the end * does not have the 1/4" jack.
but you can see where the bridge is.
* and from that angle  picture, it wouldnt matter .

 yea putting it on the outside  is fine, in fact shifting it around until the part of the top
 that has the sound you like is a good 1st step , before having it fixed to the underside of that spot.

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## mandopete

Okay, I pulled the trigger and purchased the Radius pickup along with the Para Acoustic DI box.  The installation of the pickup and carpenter jack could not be any easier.  That was probably my #1 reason for chosing this setup due to the need to have it together for a gig in 3 days.

I have been playing this rig through my Fender Super Champ XD and trying to a dial in a relatively natural sound.  I have noticed that the pickup is very sensitive and picks up a lot noise from the pick, fingers sliding up and down the strings and anything relating to mandolin body itself.  I'm not sure if this is normal and not something to worry about once it's in a live band situation.  I'll get to test that out in rehearsal tommorow.

I saw the band Della Mae at Wintergrass a couple of weeks ago and their mandolin player Jenni Lyn Gardner had a Baggs radius installed and it sounded really good.  Not sure what she was using along with it, she had some sort of a switch to boost the volume on solos.  One of the nicest amplified mandolin sounds I heard all weekend.

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## mandopete

Here's a picture of the installation.  Perhaps not the prettiest,  but certainly the easiest to be sure.  I haven't yet tried fooling around with the placement.  I choose this location based upon the manufacturer's reccomendation.  I tried to move the pickup as close to the center of the bridge without touching the strings as they pass over it.

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## Markus

I have internal k+k's and found that a tone guard helped diminish some of the handling noise, as did spending time playing plugged in to alter technique to avoid that.

As for boost, I saw someone using a mxr eq pedal for that purpose (on for boost, off for rhythm) which isn't the cheapest option but I like the idea of more eq/shaping on my lead tone.

How do you like the Para?

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## Mike Bunting

> Okay, I pulled the trigger and purchased the Radius pickup along with the Para Acoustic DI box.  The installation of the pickup and carpenter jack could not be any easier.  That was probably my #1 reason for chosing this setup due to the need to have it together for a gig in 3 days.
> 
> I have been playing this rig through my Fender Super Champ XD and trying to a dial in a relatively natural sound.  I have noticed that the pickup is very sensitive and picks up a lot noise from the pick, fingers sliding up and down the strings and anything relating to mandolin body itself.  I'm not sure if this is normal and not something to worry about once it's in a live band situation.  I'll get to test that out in rehearsal tommorow.
> 
> I saw the band Della Mae at Wintergrass a couple of weeks ago and their mandolin player Jenni Lyn Gardner had a Baggs radius installed and it sounded really good.  Not sure what she was using along with it, she had some sort of a switch to boost the volume on solos.  One of the nicest amplified mandolin sounds I heard all weekend.


The parametric eq on my Headway preamp allows me to tune out that body thump etc from a K&K. I'm sure that the para eq on the PADI would do the same.

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## mandopete

I like the Baggs PADI just fine and it seems to work well.  I have not yet had a chance to use it in a band or live situation yet, so I'm still in the learning phase.  I might try re-attaching the tone guard as I had not thought about that as a way to reduce the "surface" noise that comes along with a contact mic.

I did play around last night running the rig through a Digitech 255 effects pedal.   :Smile:

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## dwilken

for a little boost i've always used a little mxr micro amp.  i found mine on ebay for 20 bucks.  works fine on my acoustic guitar.  i'm reading all these threads trying to decide what to do on my mando.  i have a f style kilburn.

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## dwilken

hey mandopete.  all told what do you have tied up money wise in your pickup????

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## mandopete

The LR Baggs Radius pickup was $139 and the Para Acoustic DI was $169 from a local music store.  I got a good chance to use it all last night at rehearsal and it worked very well.  I have a gig tonight and that will be the real stress-test.  It's a large venue and I may have to haul out a larger amp.

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## chip

I've gone back and forth about getting a pickup. At Wintergrass I talked specifically about pickup vs. microphone, etc. with Ronnie McCoury and his opinion is #1 play into a mic, #2 have a mic on the Mandolin(dpa) and #3 a pickup.
If your going to have a pickup then you might as well have an electric mandolin? You don't really have any volume control with a pickup unless you have a pedal, etc.... right?

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## Don Julin

For the last few months I have been playing in a bluegrass duo that plays anything from house concerts to rock clubs. I need my mandolin to sound acoustic and at times, need an incredible amount of volume. I have a full compliment of electric mandolins including Godin, Eastwood, Fender, Harmony, and others but we are playing bluegrass, so I need to be playing an acoustic mandolin. More precise, an F5 style mandolin. I started out with a DPA 4099 which is a great mic but could not get it loud enough for rowdy rooms. I then added a K&K twin pickup and blended the signals together with a Rane AP-13 2 channel blender/preamp. This worked quite well but the pickup still had a bit of that nasal quack sound that we all hate so much. So I recently tried a pick-up-the-world ribbon transducer. This pickup sounds great and if anything it is a little soft on the top end, so I tried running all three sources: 4099, K&K, PUTW and now I have to say I can get very loud and it still sound like a mandolin. 

I know this seems like overkill but venues these days sometime do expect the music to cut over the top of a talking (yelling) audience. I have included a link shot live in a very crowded, noisy indoor festival. These clips features the 4099 mic and the K&K twin. It does sound better (thicker) now with the PUTW. I know many of you will not want to spend this much on amplification. It is far easier to just get an electric mandolin but it won't sound acoustic. Sorry for the long ramblin' post.

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craig.collas, 

Ed Goist, 

mandopete

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## chip

Nice videos!

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## foldedpath

> I've gone back and forth about getting a pickup. At Wintergrass I talked specifically about pickup vs. microphone, etc. with Ronnie McCoury and his opinion is #1 play into a mic, #2 have a mic on the Mandolin(dpa) and #3 a pickup.
> If your going to have a pickup then you might as well have an electric mandolin? You don't really have any volume control with a pickup unless you have a pedal, etc.... right?


Yes, pickups and clip-on mics both share that disadvantage compared to a mic on a stand. However, it's not that difficult to add a boost pedal or volume pedal if you really need it. It's easier with a pickup, but there are ways to do it with a clip-on mic and the right setup (patch cable from mixer channel insert, or a local mic preamp, or a wireless rig with the receiver on the floor next to a boost pedal). 

The first question to ask yourself, is whether you really need that kind of external volume control. It comes down to two things, basically: your own ability to play within a full dynamic range, and the ability of the band you're playing with, to lay back and give space to whoever is taking a solo. Watch a tight, interactive band like Punch Brothers (who use clip-on mics), and listen for how they give each other space to solo, without using floor pedals or an external mic to control volume. Or watch the YouTube videos of the Mike Marshall and Chris Thile duo concerts. They're both seated in chairs with external mics, where it's not that easy to "work" the mic for volume. They give each other room to breathe, musically. 

For me anyway, that's the best way to handle this, and it's why I use a clip-on mic without any added boost features. It forces me to play with dynamics, and it leads me to find people to play with who know how to handle band dynamics. There is nothing worse than playing music with people who play at a constant volume, regardless of what anyone else is doing.

P.S. All of this is assuming a stage setup that isn't the traditional "everyone play around one microphone" approach, which is another kettle of fish and involves stagecraft and presentation as much as it does sound quality. If you're considering a pickup, I'm assuming that's not the kind of band you're talking about.
 :Wink:

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## mandopete

Hey there Don - thanks for the "long rambling post" !

I'm curious as to how you attached the microphone to the mandolin.  I looked into the Audio Technica "clip on" mic, but since I don't even have a pickguard I could not figure out a way to attach it.

FWIW I don't think it's overkill to have all of these separate devices working at the same time.   Like you said, the sound of the mandolin is very natural and whatever works!

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## hubble

i use one with a baggs para di, i like it ok. i don't have anything to compare to, but i have gone straight into a PA/mixer with the radius and noticed the para really makes a difference. i don't play with the settings on the para much but im sure i could tweak it a bit.

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## Don Julin

Mandopete, the dpa maic has a few mounting options. I bought the violin version of the 4099. It comes with a rubber clamp that fastens to the rim in a similar way that a chin-rest is attached to the violin. The clamp is made of soft rubber so it does not mar the finish at all. I think it is clearly demonstrated at the DPA website. It works very well.

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## mandopete

Hey Don,

Thanks for the info on the DPA 4099, looks like a great set up.  I checked out the Rane AP-13 and it appears that hey don't make those anymore.  Seems like the combination of the K&K and the mic you could get exactly what you want for sound.  I'm not 100% convinced that I will stay with the Baggs Radius, but for now it will have to do.

BTW - I loved your duet with Billy Strings.  I put a note over on the Wintergrass Facebook page that they should bring you two out here for 2014!

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## Don Julin

Pete we will be in your general neck of the woods briefly in June. Not sure how far Bellingham is from you but we will be at The Green Frog on June 19. Thanks for putting in a good word for us at Wintergrass.

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## mandopete

Oh, then I will definately be in Bellingham on June 19th.  I would love to check out your rig!

Thanks Don!

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