# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Flatirons - festival, performer, artist, signature

## Sheryl McDonald

I've had a hard time figuring out the Flatiron line -- I know there are Performers, Festivals, Artists, Signatures, A-5 etc.

Which one is the starter model, and then what's next?

Are some model names only from the Montana Flatirons?

Thanks.

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## bradeinhorn

i think that festival-performer-artist is the general rank low to high.

a-5 is the body shape and can be any of those. contrast it with f-5. signatures came out sometime after gibson bought them. i think in 96, around the time of the move east. also the performer changed shape around this time to include a detached fretboard with exension....

fd?

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## pickinNgrinnin

The Montana Flatiron (Gibson era) carved top Mandolins were in order, the Performer, Festival, Artist, Special and Master. Performer and Festival models were considered their entry level models since they had the integrated fretboards - not the elevated fretboards. 

When they moved to Nashville, the F styles were the Festival and the Artist. A styles were the Performer and Artist.

Pre Gibson A styles were the A5 and A5-1.

Don't forget about the Flatiron Pancakes!

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## Ken Berner

The Flatiron Signature Series (built in Montana) included the F5 Master, F5 Artist, A5 Artist and A5. All of these models were X-braced; for some reason the F5 was not.

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## AlanN

Wasn't there a Custom at one time?

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## cooper4205

there was also the A5-jr. from back in the Montana days, it wasn't x-braced (they did keep making this model after the Gibson purchase, but I don't know for how long)

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## Ken Berner

AlanN, I also recall "Custom" model(s); the one sticking in my mind had a fretboard like the Gibson Bush model and was also an F style mandolin. These would have been special order instruments and not a specified model. My previous post info was taken from http://www.gibson.com/products/flati...6/f5mast.html.

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## AlanN

When I bought my Flatiron F-5 Artist in 1985, I remember Mandolin Bros catalog listing that one, the Master and the Custom, from low to high. The Artist, new, set me back $1,995. Ah, the good old days

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## Bill Van Liere

Yup, the good ole daze. I purchased my JR for $384.00 less the case. Still got it (camping/travel mando), might have the biggest chop in the house, if you're into that.

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## Ken Berner

AlanN, I'm getting a little long in the tooth and can hardly remember '85. However, that would have been a fine year for Flatiron, not that all of the Montana years were not. I was not able to purchase my '92 F5 Artist until 2002 and had been shopping for a Master Model, which eventually started showing up. Mass Music had a couple Fs and an A at one time and Joe Martin (NC) sold his, but my $$$ were gone by then. A friend here on the Gulf Coast has an '84 A2 which is the same as the later Artist and it is one fine-sounding mandolin. I am sure that yours is a precious jewel.

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## pickinNgrinnin

There was a guy who used to post to the cafe as JDARTGOD. He bought a Flatiron F5 that was either a custom or a special. It had block style inlays on the fretboard. It was the only one I'd seen like that.

Ken, that 1996 Gibson link has not worked for awhile. I wish they would put it back up as it was a good source of info.

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## AlanN

Hi Ken,

I know Joe and remember that mandolin he had, it was special. And alas, my F-5 Artist #85100106 is long gone. It was a dandy factory-made instrument.

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## Bill Van Liere

pickinN

If I remember correctly the block inlays were on the standard F5 model which had tonebars. Help me here with the lineup Flatheads. I think it went Pancakes, JR, A-1, A-Artist, F5, F5-Artist and the F5-Master. The Jr and the F5 have tonebars, all others are X-braced. Then there was some sort of Vine of Life Model that I remember seeing pictures of. It is easy to forget this stuff, I don't recall the Custom model. Alan, I am thinking you said one time you had some old Elderly catalogs, maybe you could clear this up for sure.

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## fatt-dad

Bill (and others):

Not sure about an A-1. During the years 1983 (late) and 1984 (not sure thereafter), there were A5-1 (plain) and A5-2 (fancy) mandolins. These were the first carved top mandolins made by Flatiron. When they inttroduced the F-series, I think they went to the performer/artist designations. I'm just not sure that there was ever an F5-1 or F5-2 made by Flatiron. Then again. . . .

f-d

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## Russ Jordan

I had a Flatiron Custom F5 a years back that I got in trade fron Danny Clark. Nice mando with block inlays. The Weber folks said less than 10 were made.

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## pickinNgrinnin

The Montana Flatiron F5 had tone bar bracing - only F5 with tone bars in the line as far as I know. They had the traditional dot MOP inlay on the fretboard. Only the specials/custom had the block inlay. Not many of them around indeed!

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## AlanN

> old Elderly catalogs, maybe you could clear this up for sure.


Bill, I'll look. Not sure I have one from the 80's, but maybe. I know I have one from 1994 or so, the one with a minty '24 Loar on the cover they were selling for **gasp** a mere 40K.

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## Ken Berner

Here is the Flatiron A5 Master Model sold at Mass Music a few years back. The only visible difference seems to be the fretboard inlay. At one time I was in contact with a few of the F5 Master Model owners, in attempt to make a purchase. They were very kind in their responses, but not kind enough to part with their mandolins!

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## Bill Van Liere

f-d

Yup, A5-1, thanks for the correction. What I called A-Artist is the A5-2.

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## Ken Berner

Oops, the headstock has the more ornate, "Custom Fern" also. 

I can only give you the lineup for the Signature Series carved-top instruments, from top to bottom: F5 Master, F5 Artist, F5, A5 Master, A5 Artist, A5, A5 Junior, M5 Junior. The only two of these with tone bars are F5 and A5 Junior. This info is from their '96 specs.

There were three other lines at the time; Signature Series Flat Top Mandolins, Signature Series Flat Top Mandolas/Octave Mandolins, and Performer Series Instruments. I have no printed material for any of these.

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## MikeEdgerton

On the low end of the scale my 94 Festival A has no binding, no inlay (other than the dots on the fretboard and the side markers) and has tone bars.

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## Ken Berner

Let show and tell . . . . here is the backside of my 1992 F5 Artist.

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## Bill Van Liere

Interesting, some good info here. Nice to here about the Custom Model, after reading this info my guess is that I saw a Custom with block inlays and assumed that to be an F-5 because it did not look like an Artist Model. When were these Customs made, where and by whom? Bracing?

Couple other questions? My 84 JR has a coffee color finish, I believe at some point this was changed to black finish. Anyone know when.

And, does anyone recall the Flatiron Cadat? That was black top pancake as I remember.

I remember the Festival and Performer Series came out after the Signature Series to create a less expensive (integrated neck joint) Flatiron line.

Now I wish I had not dumped all my old Elderly Catalogs.

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## Bill Van Liere

Nice pic Ken. My first thought was how did he get a picture of my F5-Master. The back curl and finish look about the same.

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## cooper4205

Here's my Carlson signed A5-Jr. from 1987, so they were doing the coffee color at least until right before the Gibson purchase. Most of the A5-Jr.'s I have seen have a 'The Flatiron' decal on the headstock, but this one is MOP. anyone know when they changed that?

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## Ken Berner

Thank you, Bill; I am glad to know there is some resemblance to your Master Model. I had a real lusting for those mandolins!

The only "Custom" F style I saw was here on Mandolin Cafe and I believe that it was made in Montana. 

I like Cooper's picture, too. His mandolin has the same stain as is on my friend's '84; it has a rather rustic look to it. It would be nice to have one of those pre-Gibson Flatirons with that stain and tortoise binding!

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## Sheryl McDonald

This is all good info, much better than what my googling could discover. 

When did the black top Flatirons come out? I'm assuming this was a Gibson Feature.

Also, I've seen a couple of threads here stating the year they were made is y.......y, or yy......

Did this rule of y...y or yy.... change from the original Flatiron factory to when gibson took over?

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## Ken Berner

Sheryl, I am not sure of the first black-top Flatiron, but I know of a '87 Festival F model with gorgeous flame on the back and sides. The Gruhn asking price in '00 was $2,250 which included a hardshell case.

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## mandowood

Here's another question- At what point did the designations start? Are there some Flatirons out there without the designations?

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## pickinNgrinnin

Ken-

I had a chance to play that A5 Master at Mass Street Music before it sold. They had a matching F5 Master too but I thought the A5 sounded better. Have not seen one since. If I remember correctly, the necks were pretty slim on both of the Flatiron Masters. 

cooper4205 - nice looking Jr. I remember you got a great deal on this one. Does it have an elevated fretboard?

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## pickinNgrinnin

mcH-

The Montana made Flatirons dated yy.......

Nashville Flatirons were dated y.......y

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## pickinNgrinnin

I'd like to have a coffee table book on the Flatiron history with pictures of the Mandos, early shots of the workers, pictures of the shops, etc. etc. up to and including the Nashville Flatirons. Too bad one does not exist.

That would be cool

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## fatt-dad

Ha. I got some photos - lots of 'em. Getting them assembled is another thing. We're STILL working on the pre-Gibson Flatiron archive project. Sometimes life gets in the way; however. To any body posting on this thread, I remain interested in any information and photos of your pre-Gibson Flatirons (I'll take through 1987 vintage).

f-d

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## fatt-dad

circa 1983 (November or so)

f-d

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## Bill Van Liere

[QUOTE]I wish there was a coffee table book. #(I screwed up my quote thing)

Well here is a big "YEA BUDDY" to that! I recognize some of you guys as regular contributors to Flatiron threads around here. Keep the info coming. I really enjoyed hearing about the Custom Model and seeing a picture of the A5 Master. The fretboard inlays and headstock look just like my 88 F5 Master and now I know this creature is not just a rumor. Is what make this fun is the fact that there are a few rare Flatirons out there. When I purchased my Master from Elderly in 88 I was told that probabaly less than twenty of this model had been produced at that point. I have heard that Bruce Weber has signed some which would have been built after mine. Who knows how many are around?

Cooper: nice lookin mando laying in the walkway there. My Jr. has a decal and nickle hardware.

pickinN- I think all the Montana JRs. have elevated fretboards.

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## Sheryl McDonald

> mcH-
> 
> The Montana made Flatirons dated yy.......
> 
> Nashville Flatirons were dated y.......y


So if I have a serial like this: 93021569 how do I interpret where it's made if the only info I have is the serial?

It could be either a '99 or a '93.. right?

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## no tyme flat

I have an 85 a5jr, carlson very plain, coffe stain loud as all get out, but alas, the chunkey neck. Where have all those flatiron tailpices covers gone?

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## Ken Berner

pickinNgrinnin, this is the F5 Master Model at Mass Music; I had a heck of a time getting the picture on here.

Bill, does this look rather like yours?

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## pickinNgrinnin

mcH-

What type of Flatiron do you have? A style? F style? No label on the inside that says where the Mando was made? 

If we know the style, peghead inlay, we can probably narrow this down for you. Or, if you take out the endpin and look straight up to the neck block you will be able to tell if this is a Montana made or Nashville made. The Montana Made Flatirons used a Mortise and Tenon joint to attach the neck to the body. They also used a _very_ small bolt to secure the joint during the gluing process. As a result, you will see a very small bolt head at this joint.

The Nashville Made Flatirons have a Dovetail neck joint and you will not see a bolt there. You might be able to see this neck area by looking in through the F holes. 

Ken- yea that was the one! It was very unusual to see and play an A5 and F5 Master in the same afternoon. I doubt I will have that opportunity again. Both instruments were in great condition and both were set up with fairly low action.

I love these Flatiron Mandolins - Montana and Nashville versions. I'm down to just 2 at this time - my 84 Pancake 2MW and a Nashville A5 Performer. I've owned many others along the MAS trail.

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## jim_n_virginia

When I bought my Flatiron Performer from Vern Brekke (it sat in his closet for 9 years!) he told me that the Performer series was one set up from the Festival series because the Performer series had the fancier Fern on the headstock and binding on the headstock. In addition some had gold hardware 9as mine did) when the Festival series only had silver hardware.

I don't care what they say about the integrated neck that Flatiron I had played and sounded pretty pretty good to my ears after I broke in in good by playing the heck out of it for 3 years.

Sold that thing to Markelberry, hope he got some good picking out of that old Flatiron as I did.

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## Sheryl McDonald

I don't have a Flatiron [yet] :-). I've seen one that the label reads Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Co. Serial # is 93021569, and it's a black top, curly maple back.
I'm assuming it's Montana made.

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## AlanN

> So if I have a serial like this: 93021569 how do I interpret where it's #made if the only info I have is the serial?
> 
> It could be either a '99 or a '93.. right?


that looks like February, 1993; 1569th one made

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## Ken Berner

pickinNgrinnin, I was going through my Flatiron file and found some notes from my search. The Master Models that Mass Music had were interesting; 1990 F5 Master Model and A5 Master Model signed by Dennis Balian, both one owner (same?). The asking price for the F5 was $5,500.00 and $3,200.00 for the A5.

I also see note where a 1986 Blonde F5 Custom (Carlson signed) was offered for $5,500.00.

Another note says that approximately 20 Master Models were built and 3 Elite. Sorry to muddy up the water here, but this is good history. Elite?

I also see where a Master Model was built as early as 1987.

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## pickinNgrinnin

mcH-

If that label said Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Co. it is definitely made in Montana. The serial number of 93021569 indicates it was made on February 15th, 1993 and it was the 69th made in this carved series. I think I have that right  

Ken-

Yes, the Flatiron Masters at Mass Street were one owners and I believe the same person owned both. What a set! I was in the store that day playing them back and forth for a good part of the afternoon. Like I said, it would be unlikely to have that experience again.

I recall seeing a blonde, Carlson signed, F5 for sale awhile back. Had great flame on the back. Now I've not heard of the "Elite" Flatirons. Very interesting!

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## Ken Berner

Flatiron Owners and Lovers, is it time for us to try to persuade Paula Jean Lewis to collaborate with us in producing a Flatiron pictorial history book? fatt-dad has a huge project going already and I imagine that we can get enough input from others for a book.

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## pickinNgrinnin

It might take some serious persuading to get Paula Jean out of retirement  

Ken - that's a picture of a happy picker!

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## Ken Berner

Anytime I can pick, I am happy! There is so much joy in music that I guess I grin a lot; maybe 'cause I just learned a little something new. That alone will make me happy, for sure.

 I would hope that by now, Paula might need a little hobby to keep her mind sharp; Ha, Ha! If we get enough comment here, showing interest, I'll contact her. She had been so gracious while at STE about taking the time to either answer a question, or find someone who could. I have no doubt that she took on the role of Flatiron historian long before I even knew what one was.

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## fatt-dad

Ask her how many carved-top mandolins were made prior to Gibson ownership. Then I'll have a goal.

f-d

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## Bill Van Liere

PickinN-Elite: I have never heard that name used. Same here.

I really apologize for my lack of accurate recall here but. My understanding is that about two or three Flatirons were produced with an elaborate vine on the finger board. This is what I refered to in a earlier post as the Vine of Life Model. This is the ultimate Flatiron offering. I am not in a good position (lack of time) to follow through with the Elderly folks who I believe had a picture of one on an instrument cataloge probabaly back in the late 80s. I think the price was about twice that of the Master Model F5.

Ken-my Master has much lighter burst than the Mass St. Master

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## Bill Van Liere

Well I spent some time yesterday at Elderly and we tried to find out the name of this elusive Flatiron model. We remembered the instrument but not the actual name of it. We did not take the time to locate every old catalog though, and nothing came up under Elite, Tree or Vine etc. We even ran across names like the the Flatiron Sweetgrass. Does anyone remember thier banjo line?

A better source of infomation than my twenty year old memory is needed here.

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## Ken Berner

Bill, I have only seen a couple of Flatiron banjos offered for sale over the last several years. I assume that they were pretty nice instruments and that owners just won't let go.

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## wayfaringstranger

My first good mandolin was a Flatiron Performer F. It's long since moved on to a new owner, but I took a few pictures of it when it was still mine.

http://flickr.com/photos/shibaku/set...62810698/show/

Great little mando.

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## A9cp

I saw this thread and wanted to ask a question. I have a Flatiron Festival serial number 10625080. I do know it's made in Nashville but I don't know the year.  If my old memory serves me I think its a 2001.

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## fatt-dad

it's from 2001.  Just take the last number and the first number and you have the last two digits of the year made.  This is the case for the Nashville Flatirons.

Fun reading this old thread!

Yes, I still love my Flatiron and have sold most all the others (well except my pancake and A3).

f-d

f-d

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## A9cp

Thanks fatt-dad. I will be selling this little jewel that's the reson for the request on the year.. My playing days are about numbered.  I have acquired Basel Arthritis at the base of my left thumb and it's getting to painful to play.

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## CTH Man

Heres a couple pics of my  A5-2  Carlson # 83060030 
I was told it was an '83 , is that correct? The tailpiece cover in this pic is off my old Mann F5 ... I developed a rash from the original cover but have since put it back on.

Kevin

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## Bill Van Liere

Yes that is an 83 and an early one at that. 

Very nice

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## pickinNgrinnin

That's a beautiful Flatiron.  Nice to see this thread resurface!

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## wannabethile

heck yeah!!  it really is good to see this thread back up again.  im trading my current mandolin for a 1993 performer A right now.  hopefully the trade will happen sometime this next week.  i really cant wait!!

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## Russ Jordan

Does anyone remember seeing an A5 Artist (Bruce Weber era, early 90's) with a pickguard?  I am getting one, wondered if the pickguard would have been original.

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## Ken Berner

Kevin, That is some outrageous flame on the backside of your '83; absolutely gorgeous. I really like the finish work on the pre-Gibson Flatirons!

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## Ken Berner

Here is the quilted rear end of my former 1993 A5 Artist, now residing in Florida.

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## CTH Man

Thanks Ken, I get lots of compliments on my A5..both the looks and the sound...just not many on my playing. :Grin: 

Kevin

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## Russ Jordan

Here are pics of a dandy 1992 A5 Artist signed by Bruce Weber.  Even has an original pickguard.

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## fatt-dad

I just can't believe I've never submitted a photo of my A5-1 to this thread.  Here goes!  With any luck, you'll see the original photo from Gruhn (i.e., when I bought it), a shot of the back, a shot of the front (in my Superior case) and a shot against my son's way-too-big bass amp - ha.

f-d

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## man dough nollij

Wow! F-D, that is just about perfect.

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## fatt-dad

Ha!  I've sold off a lot of mandolins and kept this one over them all. That includes a Stanley, Stiver and Muth - all great mandolins too.  I'm not even sure my Flatiron is that much "better" or unique, it's just what I like to play and it suites me just fine.  So, on the mandolin front, I'm at peace.  Guitars, however, are a different story.  I have four players and I'm just not settled on any one as my "favorite".  Matter of fact, I may even buy another guitar if my mutual funds ever recover - ha!

f-d

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## Bill Van Liere

FD- I swear that mandolin shrunk from the time you got it from George, it just looks tiny in that last picture. Does you son play music with that or is it just for de-dampening? Maybe you could turn a few bucks just hanging mandos in front of those speakers.

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## fatt-dad

Bill - Ha!  De-damping, what a hoot!  One thing for sure, teenagers never know what to spend their money on and for some reason, he went out and bought that big bass amp!  He's since sold it, but I thought it so crazy that I just had to immortalilze it in a photo.  Mandolin for scale.  He does play music (if you can call it that).  It seems to be thrashing head-banging punk rock stuff.  I think he just makes up the vocals as he goes and the rest of the band makes enough noise to get the audience thrashing around (is the term "mosh" still current?).

f-d

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## AeroJoe

There was one Flatiron Model F-Style that was above the Flatiron Master Model (Signature Series) and that was the Flatrion F5 Elite. I first saw this advertised in a back issue of Mandolin Brother's catalog, one where there are five or six string musicians of some importances I think, and then Stan Jay and staff "replicating" the photo on the back cover. This would have been '93-'96, somewhere in that time period. I know Mr. Jay and his staff do this alot on thier catalogs, but there is no mistaking this particular issue...it was a large black & white photo issue only, no other colors. If I'm not mistaken, there's a photo of the F5 Elite in it, on the Flatiron page. The Flatiron F5 Master that I had was purchased from Mandolin Brothers. I simply asked Larry Wexer, who worked there at the time, to show me the best sounding NEW mandolin they had in the store and he took it off the wall and I purchased it about an hour later. I had no intentions of buying it for collector purposes or vaulting it for later re-sale. It was simply the best sounding new mandolin they had in the store that particular day. Period. Stan Jay said he had one just like it for his own personal use at home. The one I had came with "options" then that are rather commonplace among makers now...radiused board, large frets, x-bracing, triple binding, bolt-on neck and so forth. You can see a photo of it on STE on "players" page two...that's me playing "Kilroy" and the Master F5 is on the right. I did later sell mine at a decent profit, but not a triple-my-money kind of thing. I did take some good-natured ribbing from FattDadd (He's the best at pre-meditated mandolin mischief...) for selling what since has become a very limited collectible. But as I mentioned above, it was purchased simply because it was the best sounding new mandolin they had in the store that particular day. Just how many F5 Elite models were made I have no earthly idea, but I did call STE one time and was told that since the Flatiron F5 Master Model required so much time and handwork, especially with those abalone inlays and triple bindings and such, there may have been only a couple of dozen that were made. They didn't just crank these out. I do recall mine sounded on the bassy side of the spectrum, Loar fans may not have particularly liked it. It was loud as a cannon, but the neck was very thin to my tastes, both at the nut and along the back, which had a very pronounced "V" shape to it. I don't regret selling it because Bruce Weber and staff kept and still keep raising the bar on their instruments, so when something else better sounding came along, I did sell it. I know it's not the wisest thing to just hand your high-dollar instrument to just anyone, but I did have a lot of requests to play that mandolin and I did let anyone that asked me if they could play it, to do just that. I do remember Alan Neiderland playing it at a jam near Raleigh one time because he played it so well. I took it to Galax that same year and a fellow had one like mine except his was tone-bar braced and mine was X-braced. The tones were about the same, mine was just louder. But his had the most beautiful abalone inlay work I have ever seen...I had no idea the stuff came in so many shades/colors. Mine was a great sounding mandolin but I cannot honestly say it would be better or worse sounding than whatever you might want to compare it to today. In the photo on STE, that Yellowstone on my couch actually sounded better to my ears and had a much beefier neck, which I like. But those F5 Masters are nice instruments and if you are fortunate enough to come across one, by all means try it out.

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## John Rosett

I've been looking for a Flatiron, and I was contacted by someone who said they had a 1991 Performer A. It says Nashville on the label and the serial number is 91xxxx9. Am I correct in thinking that it's really a 1999?

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## cooper4205

There looks to be a good deal on a pre-Gibson A5-Jr in the classifieds right now. Those older Flatiron A styles, especially the tone-bar braced Jr's (a little biased here), are great mandolins.

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## Bill Van Liere

I see the listing is already gone, somebody got a good deal. 

What an undervalued instrument group.

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## Dave Hulse

> Here's my Carlson signed A5-Jr. from 1987, so they were doing the coffee color at least until right before the Gibson purchase. Most of the A5-Jr.'s I have seen have a 'The Flatiron' decal on the headstock, but this one is MOP. anyone know when they changed that?


I have a 1991 Weber signed A5-JR with The Flatiron in MOP.

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## RBM

I have a couple of questions.  Some of the Montana Flatirons are signed by Carlson and some by Weber.  Were there any other Flatiron people signing their instruments?  Was there any difference in the build out specs based upon who signed them?

I have a Flatiron Banjo catalog ( and a Flatiron Sweetgrass banjo '86) sent to my by Bruce Weber. The label on my A5-1 mandolin '83 says " Flatiron Mandolin Company"  The Banjo label says " Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Co."  Do we know when the label was changed to include the Banjos?. I would be happy to provide the catalog to anyone who committs to doing a history of the Flatiron company ( although I think they are not particularly rare.)

The Master A pictures have got my juices flowing - I think I want one.

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## mandolirius

> I have a couple of questions.  Some of the Montana Flatirons are signed by Carlson and some by Weber.  Were there any other Flatiron people signing their instruments?  Was there any difference in the build out specs based upon who signed them?
> 
> I have a Flatiron Banjo catalog ( and a Flatiron Sweetgrass banjo '86) sent to my by Bruce Weber. The label on my A5-1 mandolin '83 says " Flatiron Mandolin Company"  The Banjo label says " Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Co."  Do we know when the label was changed to include the Banjos?. I would be happy to provide the catalog to anyone who committs to doing a history of the Flatiron company ( although I think they are not particularly rare.)
> 
> The Master A pictures have got my juices flowing - I think I want one.



You will also find some signed by Dennis Ballian. My old '89 Artist was.

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## Matt Hutchinson

> You will also find some signed by Dennis Ballian. My old '89 Artist was.


...and my 88 Artist A is too

Matt

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## brianf

Question for all you Flatiron users:  What is your opinion on the integrated neck/fingerboard as compared to the non-integrated versions?  Tone, playability, pop and volume?

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## Dave Hulse

I just picked up a '93 Performer A from CL to go with my '91 A5 JR.  They really sound similar.  The A5 JR may have a slight edge on volume but it has a slightly higher action.  They feel the same and both have quite a bark on chop chords.  The neck/fingerboard joint of the Performer is on the left and the A5 JR on the right.

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## NoTabGirl

_<removed by site owner>_

- Refrain from using the message board as a point of selling items to others or for the purpose of discussing or linking to items you are selling. Please limit selling activities to the Classifieds section of this web site or other external locations.

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## MikeEdgerton

This really belongs in the Classifieds section. The ads are free. You can find them here.

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## NoTabGirl

Whoops, I see that now,... thanks!

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## Gina Le Faux

I have a chocolate brown 93 Signature F5 signed by Bruce Webber made in Bozeman, Montana and it's a fantastic mandolin. It should have a label inside with a health warning on it - I can't stop playing it!

I've only just joined the forum and found this thread, great to see all the information about Flatiron mandolins. Has anyone done the history of Flatiron mandolins book yet?? If so,where can I get a copy??

Thanks,
Gina

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## Fliss

Hi Gina, sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but just wanted to say welcome to the Cafe  :Smile:   I saw you at Middlewich Folk And Boat Festival last year and really enjoyed your set.

Fliss

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## re simmers

Gina
I have a '91 signed by Bruce.   Love it.
Welcome!
Bob

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## Gina Le Faux

Thanks Fliss, I'm back in Middlewich on the 30th of this month with Dave Swarbrick and I'll have my Flatiron with me!

Thank you for your welcome re simmers. The old Flatirons are stunning! I want another one........

Gina

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## Eldon Dennis

I just discovered this thread and I am pleased to see folks are still interested in Flatiron mandolins.  I was forunate enough to order a Master Model F5 through a small music store in Juneau, Alaska.  It was delivered December 1992 (serial #9212731) and it's been my pleasure to play and own it since that time.  I just wish I was good enough to do it justice - it has lots of volume, tone and a deep responsive chop and is the easiest mandolin to play that I've ever had in my hands.

Other instruments:
1926 Gibson F4
2010 Weber Fern A
Bellmaster F5, made by Carl Cates of Berea, KY

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## Ken Berner

Here is a 1987 Flatiron Festival F (w/hsc) that was offered by Gruhn's in 2000. I lusted after this instrument but the $2,250 asking price was more than I could bear. I hope you can click on the photo to better appreciate the backside.

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## Buttonwood Bob

Take a quick look at my Avatar, por favor.  That's _ my pre Gibson Flat Iron_ Mandola.  The sticker inside the oval is missing...but the glue imprint remains, revealing nothing.  :Frown:   It is not X braced, and it was purchased between '80 and '85.  Can anyone add anything to what little I know?  I inherited it from my mother who taught violin and mandolin for ~40 years, as did my grandmother.

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## Rick Albertson

In the 1994 Flatiron catalog the following carved instruments are featured:

Performer Series
A5 Jr
M5 Jr
Festival A
Performer A
Festival F
Performer F

Signature Series
A5
A5 Artist
F5 Chocolate Brown
F5 Sunburst
F5 Artist
F5 Master

See specs on attached catalog pages.

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## scssmith

Rick, thanks so much for posting this info.  I have been confused about my Flatiron.  When I bought it,  the guy said it was a Flatiron F5 Signature...which it is...but I thought the Signatures were a model like the Festival and Artist. Now I realize mine is a F5 from the Signature series.  This is very help full.

Now the question of serial #.  My has a serial number 9406973.  Am I correct is stating this is a 1994 model built in June and the 973rd one carved?

Thanks in advanced!
SmityMax

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## Mandoleon

Hi, 

the following Flatiron model lineup might be useful for owners of Flatiron Mandolins of the early Gibson era beginning 1987 (Flatiron became a division of Gibson in May, 1987. At this time carved models were mostly signed by Steve Carlson). It shows some differences compared to the line-up of 1994. 

In 1987 Flatiron introduced less expensive all solid wood mandolins with one year warranties, called the Performer Series. These instruments used plainer woods and therefore were to be offered at lower prices.

Performer Series, carved models (last number indicates suggested list price w. hardshell case as of 1989):
- Festival A: Plain, no binding (819)
- Performer A, Top binding (919)
- Festival F: White top and peghead binding, fern head inlay (1719)
- Performer F: White head and body binding, fancy fern inlay (2019).

The Signature Series featured highest quality quarter-sawn sitka spruce, flame maple woods and a lifetime warranty.

Signature Series, A-Model Mandolins (sugg. list $ as of 1989):
- A5-Junior: Tone bar bracing, bound top (1119)
- A5: X-bracing, bound body (1319)
- A5-Artist: X-bracing, highly flamed maple back and sides, multy-ply binding (1519)

Signature Series, F-Model Mandolins (sugg. list $ as of 1989):
- F5: Tone bar bracing, flame maple back and sides, bound body, sunburst (2719)
- F5-Artist: X-bracing, highly flamed maple back and sides, multy-ply binding (3019)
- F5-Custom: Tone bar bracing, highly flamed maple back and sides, multy-ply binding, rectangular block fretboard markers, flower-pot headstock inlay (3319)
- F5-Master: X-bracing, highly flamed maple back and sides, multy-ply binding, fern headstock inlay, ferny fretboard inlays (3519).

The following letter from Steve Carlson was sent to Flatiron dealers in Jan. 1986 and bears lots of interesting internal details of the early Flatiron years – including an interpretation of the serial number code used at Flatiron at this point of time:

“The Flatiron story began about 10 years ago when I owned a bluegrass-oriented music store here in Bozeman. At that time, a fellow named Chuck Morrison was hand-building some fine instruments in Colorado. I first met him at the 1976 Colorado bluegrass festival where he was displaying, along with his guitars, some mandolins patterned after the old Gibson Army-Navy model. They had a flat top and back, round soundhole, teardrop shaped body, and a surprisingly good sound. I brought two back to Bozeman, sold them right away, and ordered a couple more. Over the next year I developed a good trade in these painlessly affordable instruments, selling about one a month – in a town with a population of 30,000.
I had always dreamed of building instruments, and as I got to know Morrison, we began to talk about that possibility. When the retail store he was working through went out of business, it seemed like the time had arrived. It was now or never. At Thanksgiving of 1978 we made final plans and Chuck moved to Bozeman shortly after Christmas of that year. 
At this point I had to make a final decision on a name for our mandolin. Chuck had used the name Flatiron after a prominent rock formation in Boulder, CO, where both he and I came from. The name held a double meaning since our mandolin also looks like (kind of) the old flatiron skillets (with no sides) once used for cooking over an open fire in the days of wagon trains and Indians. Other names considered were Bridger, Montana and Bitterroot, but Flatiron seemed so appropriate. It’s almost funny now – when I visit my folks in Boulder I always find myself wondering, why everybody is using OUR name. 
In June 1979 we proudly shipped the first Flatiron: Model 1 Shaded/ Serial No. 7906001 (year, month, no.). To date, we have built 3,248 flat mandolins! It’s hard to believe – but I had a dream.
Steve Carlson
Flatiron Mandolin Co.” (Jan. 1986).

Hope, this information was useful for some of you.
Best regards from Germany,
Peter
(My mandolins: 1987 Steve Carlson signed Flatiron F5-Artist, 1988 Steve Carlson signed Gibson F-5L).

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## AlanN

Thanks for sharing that letter, very interesting read.

Funny about the numbering. Per Steve Carlson, the scheme was

7906001 (year, month, no.)

A few years later, mine was 85100106. So, the company expanded the (number) part from 3 chars to 4, as they ran into a Y2K-type deal.

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## fatt-dad

Thanks!  That's an interesting read! To think, I was living in Boulder at that very time.

f-d

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## CTH Man

My  Carlson A5-2 #83060030 is a great mandolin. I'd like to know what brand of tuners it has. Does anyone know ?

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## pickinNgrinnin

Without seeing them, I'd guess they are Schallers. My 84 Flatiron has them.

Good to see this thread resurfacing!

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## tbar

Hello. I'm new here but think you all are the people to ask.  I have a Flatiron Festival F 1996 Weber signed made in belgrade, MT.  I was wondering what that would be worth.  It has some marks on it from playin' it a whole bunch. I'm the original owner.  I may be upgrading soon and am curious to see what ya'all think it would be worth.

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## 300win

I've only played one Flatiron in my life, and it was a integrated fingerboard/neck. It was very weak, almost the weakest mandolin I've ever played. But another guy I used to play with told me about one just like it that was the real deal ! Just goes to show once again that all mandolins no matter the make have differances.

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## mccartjt

I have a couple of questions that are related to Flatirons mandolins, that I am hoping some knowledgeable experts can offer an opinion.

On  a question of construction were the Flatirons all made with bolt on necks or were the pre-Gibson era the ones with dovetail construction? Are the Webers now all dovetailed neck construction too?

Since Bruce Weber now produces his own mandolins in MT, can anyone offer me an explanation as to why a used Weber Yellowstone F5 typically sells for $2-2400 (list $4300) and a Flatiron F5 (with a bolt on neck) sells for north of $2000? 

What I am trying to figure out is which of the two makes more sense to go and buy?

Thanks...

JM

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## Gina Le Faux

Here's a pic of my 93 Flatiron Signature F5 signed by Bruce Webber. It's chocolate brown and has a brilliant sound and I love it :-)

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## flatpickr

Fatt Dad, I own an '83 1n.  Amazing chop and volume. Still don't know what makes these pancakes sing but man they are monsters.  I am new to the cafe and cant figure out how to upload pictures I have saved on my computer.  If you send me your email I can get them to you that way or will happily accept guidance from forum members to get me down the cafe learning curve.  I am mainly a flatpicker that can easily navigate the UMGF site.  The cafe is still a mystery to me. Much like the mandolin itself.

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## lespaul_79

> Question for all you Flatiron users:  What is your opinion on the integrated neck/fingerboard as compared to the non-integrated versions?  Tone, playability, pop and volume?


Zombie thread bump for this question. Thanks y'all.

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## fatt-dad

I don't think it's as big of a deal as folks want it to be.  Talking Flatiron Arch-top, they did the integrated fretboard on their Festival models - maybe Performer, not sure.  My buddy has played a A5 Festival for decades and gets great sound/tone out of that mandolin.  No problem hearing what he has to say in a large jam.

Let's think of old Gibsons.  Other than their F-5 models they all had integrated fretboards.  The A4 with Virzi, the A2Z, etc. all had the integrated fretboard.  The mandolin I'll carry to my grave (my 1920 A3) has an integrated fretboard and I love it!

Folks now make all sorts of hybrids in the oval-hole a-model design.  Neck joints at the 15th and elevated fretboards.  Are they better?  Not to me!  I don't like them actually!

I have both and disparage neither.

f-d

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## Mike Arakelian

I have a 1991 Flatiron Performer A with an integrated fretboard.  As far as tone and playability are concerned, the mandolin is awesome with a nice warm, woody tone and a nice chop.  Compared to my ‘07 Sumi F5 Deluxe, it is not as loud, but that doesn’t hold me back in any of the jams I play in. The Sumi has been called a “banjo killer” more than once, so take that into consideration. If you find a “Flattie” with the integrated board and like the sound, neck, etc. you don’t need to overly concern yourself if it is loud enough.  It will do just fine in most instances IMO.

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## Saxon Moreno

This is a fascinating thread. I've read it through because a 1998 (I think, if I'm interpreting the serial number correctly) Flatiron F-5 "The Gibson Master Model" Style Artist has come up for sale near me. Where does this model stand in the pecking order of quality? The label states "Gibson Inc, Nashville" but how can I tell whether it's an import or actually Nashville made?

I haven't been to look at this mandolin yet, I've only seen a photo.

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## CES

I’m pretty sure they didn’t move to China until after 2003 (and maybe closer to 2007?), so the one you’re looking at should be the real deal. Anyone sign the label?

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## Saxon Moreno

Thanks Chuck. There's no signature as far as I know (like I say, I've only seen a photo). 

Interestingly though, the label says "Style A-5 Artist" and this is visible from the photo, even though it's an F style. An honest mistake by someone at Gibson I hope, and not an horrendous fake!

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## lenf12

> An honest mistake by someone at Gibson I hope, and not an horrendous fake!


I hope you're right Saxon, but please post pictures if they become available including pix of the label(s). Lots of experts here 
to help guide a purchasing decision.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## Saxon Moreno

Thanks Len. I'm hoping to go and see it on Friday, so will take photos. 

I was half-joking really, but are there fakes knocking around? Is that something we have to be wary of? I know it's a problem in the guitar world, but it's so much bigger.

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## Saxon Moreno



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## Saxon Moreno



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## ricklmf

:Wink: 


> 


I think it is hard to go by the descriptions, at least in my case it is.  My label says performer series, the headstock says Festival, so it is a festival in the performer series.  the adds and descriptions show the Festival as having no binding, but the higher series the Performer has white binding.  Mine clearly says Festival on the headstock but has the white binding.

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