# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Why cant they just leave us alone?

## Scotti Adams

http://vimeo.com/23396322

----------


## mandopete

Dude, she just read Chris Pandolfi's blog and decided that since there's so much money and fame in playing bluegrass she couldn't resist!

 :Smile:

----------


## Mike Bunting

Pathetic.

----------


## Scotti Adams

Id rather stick pins in my eyes than to watch that.

----------


## tkdboyd

Makes me want to run away from bullies to a big city where I'll never experience harassment ever again...

----------


## Jeff Budz

I think it's impressive that TS can pull of a traditional bluegrass number like that....   //joke

----------


## Fretbear

"There's been too many four-wheel drive soundtracks and Yee-Haws yelled......"
Norman Blake

----------


## Theo W.

A guitar-banjo?.. Really?

----------


## CES

So don't watch...she's got millions of others who are...

Now, if we could just work out a collaboration with Taylor, Chris Thile, and Jack White, well, then we could really lay down some type  :Laughing: 

EDIT:  Betcha wouldn't make fun of Doc Watson for playing his Guitar-Banjo  :Smile:

----------


## Theo W.

> Betcha wouldn't make fun of Doc Watson for playing his Guitar-Banjo


Are you kidding? Of course I would!  :Wink:

----------


## Mike Bunting

> So don't watch...she's got millions of others who are...


Of course she does, lowest common denominator and all.

----------


## cstewart

Has she claimed that song is a bluegrass song?  Is modern country not allowed to use "bluegrass" instruments?

----------


## Dennis Ladd

New iteration of the Kingston Trio?

----------


## sgarrity

I won't be buying her record or even the single but I liked it for what it is, country tinged pop music.  At least it's got a positive message.

----------

Bluejay

----------


## JEStanek

> Has she claimed that song is a bluegrass song?  Is modern country not allowed to use "bluegrass" instruments?


That's what I was thinking.  Sounded like a straight up pop country tune to me.  Hardly my taste but more so than some other things.  Her lowest common denominator = *¢*a*$*h.

Old Crow Medicine Show utilizes a 6 string Banjo as well... I like OCMS much better than Taylor Swift but you can't argue her sucess.

Jamie

PS Along with Shaun's point, it is a positive message.  You gotta remember a large part of her target demographic is young girls.  Primary schools (k-12) are way more brutal than they were in my time (late 70s - late 80s).

----------

Bluejay

----------


## CES

> Are you kidding? Of course I would!


As well you should!  She probably got the idea from Keith Urban or Old Crow Medicine Show or something...

EDIT:  Jamie beat me to the OCMS reference...stupid slow fingers...

----------


## 250sc

I'm not overly impressed but I'm also not sure what you're having problems with. The 1920s dustbelt outfits or the songs message or the playing or the too many strings on the banjo. I don't thinks it's being marketed as bluegrass or to a bluegrass audience.

Please inlighten me.

----------


## RichM

Seems like a reasonable enough country pop song. Never understood why fans of one kind of music seem to feel a need to denigrate other kinds of music. If it ain't your thing, move on to something that is.

----------


## CES

> Of course she does, lowest common denominator and all.


At least they've got someone who's actually writing their own music, playing instruments (ok, ok, you might have me there...but at least she doesn't just hold it like some do), and putting out, for the most part, a positive image and message.  I'd much rather my 14 yr old listen to her than Lady Gaga or Rhianna, for example.  Of course, I'd much rather my 14 yr old listen to Sarah Jarosz, Sierra Hull, the Lovells, Biscuit Burners, Tripping Lilly, or, heck, even Kathleen Battle, but you can't win them all...

Of course, my daughter's more into alt rock here lately (rather than the "old boring" music), and she actually likes the Avetts and Mumford, so maybe there's hope for her yet  :Smile: 

BTW, RichM, that's a sweet looking Avatar!

----------


## John Flynn

I think she's being pretty nasty to mean people...we need love and understanding too!

----------


## JeffD

The worst I can say is that it is not my cup of tea. But it certainly is tea.

----------


## 250sc

"Why can't they just leave us alone?"

I still don't understand. Are you a bully and feel picked on?

----------


## woodwizard

> The worst I can say is that it is not my cup of tea. But it certainly is tea.


Feel the same way

----------


## mandolino maximus

That's how a mando player feels about the rest of the world.  Eveyone keeps calling it a ukelele.  Someday it will grow up and then they'll see.

Thinking of the video in terms of the target audience, maybe it's a good thing that bluegrass instrumentation can be considered appealing to the yute of America.  In a way, it's a bit like a children's version of adult country star Dierks Bentley's latest bluegrassish crossover Up On The Ridge (with Ronnie McCoury, et. al.).  Love the comment above about going off to the big city where you'll never get hassled again, though.

But seriously, can Scotty really win American Idol?

P.S.  My introduction to bluegrass was The Battle of New Orleans, a huge crossover back in the days.  It was the first 45 my mother let me put on the player by myself.  She was ready to kill me.

----------


## JonZ

1. Good message.
2. The goat's a nice touch.

----------


## Theo W.

> 2. The goats a nice touch.


I laughed so hard.

Also, was Taylor Swift picked on in school? I would picture a pretty woman/future pop-star like her to be popular in high school. (She didn't grow up to be that big anyway..)

----------


## mandolino maximus

Here's a quick thought.  There is no criticism meant by the original post beyond paraphrasing the jist of the song.  The thread title is a lot like me telling a joke to my wife and then having to expla ....  Oh, just never mind then.

Whoops guess not.

----------


## 250sc

can't delete this mistaken post

----------


## Peter Kurtze

Who's "they?"  Who's "us?"

There are two kinds of people in the world:
Those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world,
And those who don't.

----------


## Mike Bunting

It's just trivial.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> P.S.  My introduction to bluegrass was The Battle of New Orleans, a huge crossover back in the days.  It was the first 45 my mother let me put on the player by myself.  She was ready to kill me.


 I don't recall that song being a bluegrass tune, a big country hit for Johnny Horton.

----------


## Charlieshafer

I have no problem with that at all. Good message for sure, and if 1/100% of her audience thinks that playing acoustic instruments is cool, then she will have introduced far more kids to mandolins and banjos than a forum of this size ever will. I like the vintage vibe; again, if it opens a few doors to the old-time aesthetic, then props to her. If you catch your youngster liking this, it's a very easy jump to introduce her some old Nickel Creek, and from there, some acoustic Grateful Dead, on to Old And In The Way, and back onward. This is a great teaching moment, folks.

----------


## mandolirius

It kinda went on too long but I liked it. I thought the mandolin playing was pretty good.

----------


## Peter Kurtze

It's harmless, it's no threat to any established genre, and if its positive message helps one "tween" girl survive Middle School, so much the better.  I say that as the father of a daughter who nearly didn't.

----------


## journeybear

Why you gotta be so mean?

People take Taylor to task for being more pop or rock than country, and then here's this, a nice catchy tune with a good message and country/bluegrass colorings, and she still gets chided. Guess some people would rather put people down than see the positive aspects of what they are doing. Just no pleasing some people.

Verbal bullying is still bullying, and it's still hurtful. What do get from making snide remarks about this? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Can you do better? If so, let's hear it.

I'm surprised at some of you. I've come to expect more consideration and better manners around here, even accounting for personal tastes. In fact, this whole thread pretty much stinks.

Why you gotta be so mean?

----------


## Mike Bunting

I think Scotti was trolling. -)





0




0

----------


## MikeEdgerton

I think she might have gotten the idea to use the 6-string banjo from me, I've played one out for years. I have no problem with the song, it's a Taylor Swift song. It's no different than all the rest of them. I mean, is there anyone in this thread that's making a living playing music? If so, how are you doing in relation to how she's doing? It's OK to not like the song, to not like the artist, the despise the video, but hey, she is what she is and she's making a living doing it. I'll give her credit for that.

----------


## Jim Ferguson

Alright.........how many of us commenting are under 40?????  Her music fan demographic is far from our generation.....:-)
The teenie boppers love her and her music and she sells millions of records & has more $$$ than any of us will ever see.
Not a bad song for the audience it was meant for and some nice mando thrown in will maybe inspire some youngsters to pick up the instrument.
Peace,
Jim

----------


## Brian Harris

I got nothing against a catchy tune.  It's the synthetic, over-produced, auto-tuned, hyper-compressed production values I can't stand.

Sheryl Crowe's Tuesday Night Music Club is a delicious example of wonderful engineering.

----------


## John Flynn

> Who's "they?"  Who's "us?"
> 
> There are two kinds of people in the world:
> Those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world,
> And those who don't.


I heard there are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary and those who don't.

----------


## MikeEdgerton

> I heard there are 10 kinds of people in the world:
> Those who understand binary and those who don't.


And there are 10 kinds of people that will read this message. Those of us that understand it and those that don't.

----------


## journeybear

> I think Scotti was trolling. -)


Ya think? But it was the piling on I didn't like.

I don't care how young or old a songwriter is if he or she has something worth saying and produces a well-crafted song, musically and lyrically. Lennon and McCartney turned 21 in 1961 and 1963 respectively, and a lot of their early songs' subject matter skews a little young. I'm not saying Taylor Swift is in the same league - but look at how many people our age still listen to those songs and idolize those young men - but I do believe she has a pretty good way with a lyric, and has written some catchy songs, and has a way of putting them over that rivals many other country artists, most more than twice her age. So I am more than willing to let her career grow, and expect in a few years that her voice will catch up to the rest of her burgeoning talents.

I don't understand complaints about auto-tuning (which I don't hear) and compression (so prevalent in the industry as to be a non-issue). I wish musical efforts would be judged on musical merit. And I think this has a nice sound, I like the instrumentation, and like the song even a bit more than some of her other songs, which rock just a bit too hard for what belongs (more or less) on the country charts. As to the video, some of the production design leans heavily on cliche, which seems par for the course for music videos. All in all, it's a decent song with a timely message fairly well presented. Got no problems with it. And she features mandolin more often than a lot of her chart mates, so that is always a plus with me.  :Mandosmiley: 

Thanks for being willing to take the bullet for the guitarjo (or is it a banjar?), Mike, but she could just as easily (if not more so) have been influenced by Shakira's use of it in last year's "Gypsy."  :Wink:

----------


## MikeEdgerton

> Thanks for being willing to take the bullet for the guitarjo (or is it a banjar?), Mike, but she could just as easily (if not more so) have been influenced by Shakira's use of it in last year's "Gypsy."


Where do you think Shakira got the idea? For crying out loud, I'm so tired of being a trend setter.

----------


## Clement Barrera-Ng

I like it - it's catchy, and I dig the message. Will I go out and buy it tomorrow? Probably not. But more power to TS

----------


## Mike Bunting

[QUOTE=journeybear;927105I don't care how young or old a songwriter is if he or she has something worth saying and produces a well-crafted song, musically and lyrically. , [/QUOTE]
 That's a big if. I find both the musicality and the message to be trite in that song.

----------


## mandopete

> 2. The goat's a nice touch.


I was just thinking the same thing!

----------


## Mike Snyder

You cannot have too much goat in a music video. I liked it, for what it is. I play sometimes with a brother/sister duo out of Missouri. She does alot of Swift amd Twain, he does alot of cowboyhat neo countrywestern. Not my choice in music, but done acoustic in a trio, not awful, either. Gives me a chance to stretch out a little. She likes odd keys.

----------


## journeybear

> That's a big if.


I know. My standards are ridiculously high. On the other hand, I am also a big softie.  :Smile: 




> Where do you think Shakira got the idea? For crying out loud, I'm so tired of being a trend setter.


 :Laughing: 

OK, thanks for popularizing the guitarjo. Now, how about doing something for the *MANDOLIN!*  :Grin:

----------


## Ivan Kelsall

I took one look at her & the 'music' just seemed to fade away. She was on a UK TV chat show a couple of months back - what a stunner, & very pleasant person as well,
                                                     Ivan :Disbelief:

----------


## swampstomper

I don't care for pop tunes like this, and I did resent the implication (or even directly said in the song and shown in the final scenes) that country people / hillbillies are ignorant bullies but we will show them all when we move to the city and become more sophisticated than "them". Rather than saying the bullies are just ignorant and pathetic (well, she says that too) and "we" the bullied will go our own ways, maybe to the city and maybe not. But all in all a positive message.

All pop music aimed at the mass market dumbs down production and emphasizes hooks and style over soul. I'm not looking for Thile and Daves to hit it big with the 14-year old girls singing a raw "You're Running Wild" anytime soon...

----------


## barney 59

I don't see what the problem is. Did you notice that there was a mandolin being played there. That means that Taylor Swift(or her handlers) hired a mandolin player-- that means he got PAYED to play the mandolin. What's the problem? I think all the pop acts should have a mandolin in their performances,in fact it should be a requirement. Maybe a law. Anyone that pays someone to play the mandolin is golden in my book!      Besides she's kind of hot.
 Ever seen Taylor's dazzling Taylor 12 string?  Taylor on the headstock and Taylor in layed into the fretboard. Talk about product placement! Too bad her name isn't Dudenbostel!

----------


## Mike Snyder

She's a talented pop songwriter, singer, musician, flavor of the week. Folks will always line up to take shots at such an easy target. She featured acoustic instruments (and musicians) in a popular video. She can chord that big Taylor, I've seen her do it. She won't have the long career of say, Emmylou or AK, but she's got a bigger niche and a huge audience. Pick a tougher target guys, she's a piece of fluff.

----------


## 250sc

_<removed - violates forum posting guidelines>

- Avoid flaming or trolling – posts intended to create discord, antagonize others or create general mayhem. Be polite and courteous at all times. We expect spirited discussions and widely varying opinions that some may even find offensive, but exercise caution. A good rule of thumb is don't say anything on the message board that you wouldn’t say to someone in person._

----------


## Scotti Adams

_<removed - violates forum posting guidelines>

- Avoid flaming or trolling – posts intended to create discord, antagonize others or create general mayhem. Be polite and courteous at all times. We expect spirited discussions and widely varying opinions that some may even find offensive, but exercise caution. A good rule of thumb is don't say anything on the message board that you wouldn’t say to someone in person._

----------


## H.P.

Thanks to the OP for posting the link to the video. I probably would never have seen it otherwise, and I enjoyed it.

----------


## Nick Triesch

Swift is not the the flavor of the week.  She has been around for years.  Started when she was about 14 and now she is 21.   She has already won all the top Country awards and Forbes magazine listed her as one of the top 10 enertainment earners in the world at something like 55 million for just last year. She has sold millions of records.  You can hate her but most people by far love her.   Also,  just maybe she will help taKe away the terrible stigma the banjo has along with bluegrass music.  She is helping us.     Nick

----------


## Willie Poole

BLUEGRASS?  I  THINK  NOT.....Thats what I have been talking about all these years, she might be rich and talented but please don`t refer to her music as bluegrass....Beauty promotes shows and sells a lot of CD`s, or so it seems.....Something I don`t have....

----------


## Nick Triesch

Her video has a very much bluegrass setting.  So,  I think it can only help bluegrass overall.  I have been to our local bluegrass meetings and jams at local resturants and passer by folks   (young people)  have made a ton of fun of us.  That was years past.  Some of this could change.  And that is a good thing.   Kids are playing more acouistic guitar because of Taylor Swift.    James Taylor got me playing.  Whatever it takes.    Nick

----------


## Earl Gamage

It's not bad and I think her mandolin player "Banjo Ben" is on the video.  Can't be sure cause it flashed by the players too quick for me.  Banjo Ben is a sure enough bluegrasser and has lots of great videos on utube worth checking out.

----------


## Ed Goist

> It's not bad and I think her mandolin player "Banjo Ben" is on the video.  Can't be sure cause it flashed by the players too quick for me.  Banjo Ben is a sure enough bluegrasser and has lots of great videos on utube worth checking out.


Earl, I think you're correct that it is Banjo Ben Clark, and I am pretty sure he is playing a JBovier Blackface F5Z. Here is a pic from the performance at the ACMAs last month.

----------


## mandolino maximus

> I don't recall that song being a bluegrass tune, a big country hit for Johnny Horton.


Sorry, I was in a crossover "bluegrassish" state of mind thinking of the fiddle tune that predates Battle of New Orleans and sometimes gets played in bluegrass style.  At any rate, it got a five-year old's attention as an introduction to music with some root to it.

Have to admit that this video ended up with the winners living in the city and the "mean" ones sleeping with the goats.

----------


## johnny

I'm most concerned about the probability that Taylor and her band will try to get people to clap in unison at her concerts with potentially catastrophic results.  never a good idea to try to make people clap.

----------


## Ed Goist

> Earl, I think you're correct that it is Banjo Ben Clark, and I am pretty sure he is playing a JBovier Blackface F5Z. Here is a pic from the performance at the ACMAs last month.


*Correction.* The mandolin player here is *Mike Meadows*.
After I saw the JBovier F5Z in the video, I fired off a quick congratulatory note to Jeff Cowherd of JBovier Mandolins.
Here is part of a reply I got back from Jeff:
_"...Yep, Good eye. That "F5Z" actually belongs to Brian Nutter (Keith Urban). Mike Meadows (Taylor Swift) now has a JBovier "F5-Tradition". Brian & Mike are friends and Mike borrowed the "F5Z" before his "F5-Tradition" arrived (I think)...I know he also used it in their ACM awards performance."_

----------


## Mandolin Mick

Yeah, I was going to say that's *not* Banjo Ben ... :Wink:

----------


## mandolino maximus

> I'm most concerned about the probability that Taylor and her band will try to get people to clap in unison at her concerts with potentially catastrophic results.  never a good idea to try to make people clap.


Thanks.  Now I'm getting this image of Steve Martin clapping on the porch in The Jerk.  Oh, the humanity.  But maybe her crowd won't consist entirely of banjo players.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Sorry, I was in a crossover "bluegrassish" state of mind thinking of the fiddle tune that predates Battle of New Orleans and sometimes gets played in bluegrass style.  At any rate, it got a five-year old's attention as an introduction to music with some root to it.
> 
> Have to admit that this video ended up with the winners living in the city and the "mean" ones sleeping with the goats.


Ah yes The Eighth of January. Thought maybe you were referring to that one.

----------


## JeffD

Wierd wierd. Nobody thought, or thinks, the music is bluegrass. Nobody says, or hints that the music is bluegrass. Nobody who knows bluegrass would be in the slightest confused. Nobody, as in nobody. Nobody who doesn't know bluegrass matters to this discussion. They are confused by anything that looks vaguely banjo like.

The only folks that would confuse this with any kind of bluegrass are pulling your leg or trying to get a rise.

A mandolin and a banjo hybrid show up in a pop country tune. So?

----------


## Ed Goist

Jeff, I really don't have a horse in this race, but this fellow say that Taylor Swift is "using a bluegrass theme" in this song/video. Moreover, he thinks it applicable enough to write about it on something called _The Bluegrass Blog_. So, does this fellow not matter?

As a relative outsider to the genre (Bluegrass is not, and never will be my favorite genre), I am trying to understand the negative reaction to this song and video. This song will be heard by millions and millions of people, and it features a mandolin way out front in the mix. This is obviously a hugely positive thing for the mandolin.

----------


## Paul Kotapish

My seven-year-old daughter adores Taylor Swift. She also likes the Del McCoury band. I don't think she gets them the least bit confused, and I can't imagine why anyone else would get worked up about that song or video, either. 

Seems like Taylor Swift is just having some fun with this, and it all seems pretty innocuous to me. I agree with Ed above that the worst that could happen is that a few more preteens might get interested in hearing of that music with the funny instruments and might learn to like the real thing. My bet is that seeing Taylor strumming on a banjo (OK, banjo-guitar) will inspire my girl to pick on a five string more than listening to Rob McCoury (or any real bluegrass banjo player) would.

Many of folks found their way to true-vine bluegrass by way of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, the Grateful Dead, the latter-day Byrds, Goose Creek Symphony, the Earl Scruggs Review, and any number of other rock or country-rock bands that incorporated bluegrass elements into their sound in a way that left purists at the time scratching their heads. I think it's a sign that bluegrass is healthy and interesting--even if generally misunderstood by the general public.

As for the hokum, hardcore bluegrass has always had an ample share of country corn over the years.

----------


## Bill Foss

All's I know is we sit in front of our computers and argue this and that while Taylor Swift laughs all the way to the bank.

----------


## JeffD

Hey we have long known that bluegrass is far more important than making money!

----------


## JeffD

> Jeff, I really don't have a horse in this race, but this fellow say that Taylor Swift is "using a bluegrass theme" in this song/video. Moreover, he thinks it applicable enough to write about it on something called _The Bluegrass Blog_. So, does this fellow not matter?


Ummm.... no.

----------


## JeffD

> As a relative outsider to the genre (Bluegrass is not, and never will be my favorite genre), I am trying to understand the negative reaction to this song and video. This song will be heard by millions and millions of people, and it features a mandolin way out front in the mix. This is obviously a hugely positive thing for the mandolin.


One thing at a time. There is a lot of stuff out there heard by millions and millions of people, that I wouldn't walk across the street to listen to.

Secondly, I think it will have exactly no effect, neither positive nor negative, on the mandolin or bluegrass. Yea it features a mandolin, but of the many millions who will hear this or see it, how many could even identify what that instrument is. You might get a few right answers if you asked which of those instruments is a mandolin, and allowed one wrong guess.

Taylor Swift is a real talented musician. I keep hoping to like her more.

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

This video says it all -- we need less oversensitivity to others' perceived interloping in or co-opting of our favorite genres and/or instruments, and more goat.

----------


## Rob Brown

Come on now. This is a mando forum and promoting the mando is good.We really can't criticize the 80's hair bands for using a cow bell. Can we?

----------


## swampstomper

> As for the hokum, hardcore bluegrass has always had an ample share of country corn over the years.


Yeah, but that feller could really frail the cowhide off the 5-string!

----------


## Ivan Kelsall

*Quote* - _" ....this image of Steve Martin clapping on the porch in The Jerk."_. I know the one,the part where he couldn't clap 'in time with the tune'. Well,in real life he's layed that devil to rest. Was that on the porch of the 'old ramshackle shack' or the 're-built ramshackle shack' ?,
                                      Ivan :Cool:  :Mandosmiley:

----------


## mandolino maximus

Yeah, Ol' Steve and the Steep Canyon Rangers put on a darned good concert - complete with a capella "I Can't Sit Down" and encore "Orange Blossom Speicial" which are smoking.  Anyone here hear the bluegrass standard, "King Tut" at his concerts?  (If I have to insert a smiley face here, well ... .)

So was Grandpa Jones bluegrass or was he the Taylor Swift of his generation?

----------


## allenhopkins

> Come on now. This is a mando forum and promoting the mando is good.We really can't criticize the 80's hair bands for using a cow bell. Can we?


Not on the Cowbell Cafe, anyway...

With regard to the forum title: whaddaya mean, "leave us alone"?  Only *real* bluegrass people (whoever they may be) are allowed to have banjos (of whatever variety), mandolins, acoustic bass and guitar etc. in their bands and on their videos?  I remember oceans of ink (or pixels, or whatever) being spilled on the Cafe because Paul McCartney strummed a mandolin on _Dance Tonight,_ with some actually resenting it because he didn't play it like a virtuoso or in the same way that most of us do.

I got interested in mandolin because I liked bluegrass, I liked bluegrass because I liked folk music and went to see a variety of "folk" acts (including bluegrass), I liked folk music because I heard the Kingston Trio sing Frank Proffitt's _Tom Dooley_ on the AM radio.  If some kid likes Taylor Swift's song, and then listens to Alison Krause or Rhonda Vincent, and picks up a mandolin or banjo and learns to play and enjoy bluegrass music, how exactly is that bad?

Loving and enjoying bluegrass *does not and should not* mean becoming the initiate of some obscure and dogmatic musical religion, with the main purpose of ID'ing and excluding heretics and keeping everything as "pure" as possible.  _Mean_ may be lousy bluegrass, but so what?  We don't own the genre, or control access to "bluegrass" instruments and styles, and if there are "bluegrassy" songs around the edges, that get popular and attract people to the more "authentic" stuff, that's good, IMHO.

----------


## journeybear

> Loving and enjoying bluegrass *does not and should not* mean becoming the initiate of some obscure and dogmatic musical religion, with the main purpose of ID'ing and excluding heretics and keeping everything as "pure" as possible.


+1 No, make that +10 No, make that +1,000,000! And if you don't mind, consider the effect of replacing "bluegrass" with "the mandolin," because the insrument is capable of playing so man styles that protection from the purism to which some wish to inflict upon it should not be limited to just one genre.




> _Mean_ may be lousy bluegrass, but so what?  We don't own the genre, or control access to "bluegrass" instruments and styles, and if there are "bluegrassy" songs around the edges, that get popular and attract people to the more "authentic" stuff, that's good, IMHO.


Again I agree, except for just one aspect - I don't think this is or was meant to be bluegrass. I think Ms Swift or her bandmates or her producer - someone in the room - thought this would sound nice with this kind of instrumentation. I seriously doubt it went further nor deeper than that. In the post-Unplugged era, it is very common for bands whose usual sound is very electric to include one or two acoustic numbers on an album and a few in their show, for the sake of diversity and dynamics.

Or maybe this is a subtle way of addressing those who have taken her to task for not being "country" enough. (That's a whole 'nother gang of purists.) This sure is a step in that direction, intentionaly or not. BTW, those who quibble about hay bales, goats, the country-to-the-city theme in the lyrics ... I believe the imagery is just an attempt to have a setting (however cliched) in keeping with the instrumentation, and the lyrics utilize those terms to indicate the protagonist's evolution toward worldliness and sophistication, as contrasted with her tormentor's stagnant small-mindedness. That is, she is embracing the whole wide world beyond her home town's imitations, while the bully is left behind to strut in futile domination over his little dominion. Something like that.  :Wink:

----------


## JeffD

> You can hate her but most people by far love her.


Most people do not play mandolin, and if they play anything, its guitar. So I am left out of "most people" right from the start.




> She is helping us.


That is something I have been thinking about. I am leaning towards the idea that this video will have no effect at all.

----------


## JeffD

What is the BIG FEAR? Well, it is that those who might be interested in the real thing, will be turned off if their first exposures to something called bluegrass (a.k.a. something with a banjo in it), is Taylor Swift. Or, probably more likely, someone newly exposed to this stuff will claim to love bluegrass, especially Taylor Swift.

Well the former is not likely; those with real interest will not be destracted, and the latter is irrelevant.

What this video indicates to me is that "Big Country" is trying to court some of the fans of more traditional music, and naively thinks you can do it by sticking in a pseudo banjo and a mandoln. Well, notwithstanding a poor execution, the attempt indicates we (fans of more traditional music) have pehaps more infuence than we think.

----------


## Andrew DeMarco

musically vapid imho...

----------


## johnny

I don't like Taylor Swift, but how do you suggest people get in to bluegrass music?  Trampled by Turtles was my first exposure to any bluegrass-like music, then I found out Jerry played in Old and in the Way, then I watched Grateful Dawg and the next thing I know I'm at bluegrass bandcamp learning actual bluegrass.  Very few people are going to hear Bill Monroe on the radio or TV or from their friends.  How do you expect people to find out about the music?  You've got to start somewhere.  And if one less person at the airport asks me 'is that a ukelele?', I might personally thank Taylor Swift.

----------


## Mike Bunting

Oops, double post.

----------


## Mike Bunting

Johnny, I suppose you won't be pleased with me when I tell you that I don't really care if more people get into bluegrass.

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

> ...And if one less person at the airport asks me 'is that a ukelele?', I might personally thank Taylor Swift.


I'm not sure it will have that effect; if anything, you might hear instead _"Oh look, there's one of those neat ukuleles like in that Taylor Swift video"_

----------


## AlanN

> Johnny, I suppose you won't be pleased with me when I tell you that I don't really care if more people get into bluegrass.


You may not, but you can bet your broken E string that Adam Steffey, Del McCoury, 3TO and all the rest care (read: record buying public).

----------


## Mike Bunting

So?

----------


## catmandu2

> musically vapid imho...


I don't think they were going so much for musical content, as much as for image.

Isn't "music" in so many different categories these days?  I mean, with all the media (consumption)...  Isn't this actually the vast bulk of "pop" music? (veneer with apparently little serious regard for content) -- regardless what instruments are shown and market being targeted?  She seems like a cute girl, though.

----------


## barney 59

I don't know if Taylor Swift will last or not, (of course I don't). I do think she has talent and stage presence. As a child star she most certainly has been handled and marketed and is probably the cash cow for a small army of people who probably try and control her image and her for their own gain. She is pretty much, like Brittany, an industry all to herself and has had that responsibility all through her teenage life. The themes of her music are to me really immature but so what, so is she(or was) and she has been playing for an adolescent audience. Songs about school yard bullies and being "15".  If, as she ages and her fan base ages, she adapts and matures she has the possibility of a very long career. She is marketed as a "Country" artist, country music doesn't tend to discard their artists when they get older like other pop styles of music, in fact reveres them and many become more popular ex-potentially as time goes by. If she blows up in scandal, being as she missed the prom and makes the mistakes as a young adult she should have made as a teenager all she has to do is sing a Gospel song and all will be forgiven ---Why? 'cause it's Country Music! We all make mistakes and we take turns,the devil tempts us and is powerful but we can find redemption and forgiveness when we screw up---That is the theme of country music--  People go to a George Jones or Loretta Lynn concert as if they were going for an audience with the Dalai Lama.  Many "pop" artists have gravitated to country music when their careers begin to fade and find new life there. They are able to continue their careers pretty much forever by switching from London or LA to Nashville. She has a shot at having a long, long career if she wants it.

----------


## Andrew DeMarco

Yea, I agree that most of pop music these days is unchallenging from a sonic standpoint (maybe that's why it is accepted as pop (?), but that's another discussion).

I was highlighting that I don't like this song because it's just boring, not because she is encroaching on our bluegrass tradition by "abusing bluegrass instrumentation" as others may have alluded to.

----------


## smokyt81

finally got the link to work, and now I feel clued in on this thread.  Problem is, not only is that four minutes I'm never gonna get back, this migraine just popped up out of nowhere...

----------


## Chris Willingham

Most of us may not like it, but it's hard to deny that Taylor Swift is, almost single handedly, turning younger kids onto playing instruments and writing songs.  

Our banjo player, who teaches guitar and banjo, said about two years ago the number of girls taking lessons suddenly drastically outnumbered boys. Guess why? I suspect that would be the case elsewhere, too. 

Granted, the majority might fumble through "white horse" and lose interest, but if Swift gets more kids playing actual music instead of standing in front of the TV playing Rock Band, isn't that a victory on some level?

----------


## Charlieshafer

> Most of us may not like it, but it's hard to deny that Taylor Swift is, almost single handedly, turning younger kids onto playing instruments and writing songs.  
> 
> Our banjo player, who teaches guitar and banjo, said about two years ago the number of girls taking lessons suddenly drastically outnumbered boys. Guess why? I suspect that would be the case elsewhere, too. 
> 
> Granted, the majority might fumble through "white horse" and lose interest, but if Swift gets more kids playing actual music instead of standing in front of the TV playing Rock Band, isn't that a victory on some level?


This is a victory on a major level! I'm sort of surprised at some of the criticism here. On one hand, the hard-core trad folks want a slower instrumental speed than the modern barn-burners, and more emphasis on the song. Isn't that exactly what Swift is doing? Whether or not you like the song is irrelevant; she's using traditional instruments in a true "song" context. There's nothing but good things that can come out of her video here.

----------


## catmandu2

> ... if Swift gets more kids playing actual music instead of standing in front of the TV playing Rock Band, isn't that a victory on some level?


This is one of the points I brought forth in the infamous Jack White thread (albeit...to not great reception   :Wink:  ).  I think too many folks are invested in the "_music_*** as it should be" attachment than to value this particular point of view.


*whatever _that_ is...like I said, I personally see this type of media--benign as it is--not particularly as strong in the "music" categpry as in the "child multi-media star" catgeories...justin beiber, jonus brothers, what have you...I wouldn't get one's panties in a bunch over Taylor Swift _invading_ bluegrass, or whatever the criticism is/was..

----------


## catmandu2

> ...she's using traditional instruments in a true "song" context.


To be more clear above, of course this is music--only meant that, in all the categories of music, I presume this is not intended for a serious folk/blues/bluegrass/whatever audience, but for the school-age cohort--which among other things is generally more disposed to image-machinery/marketing, etc..

If those serious about folk/blues/bluegrass/whatever are looking to this for content, PM me for advice..  :Wink: 

See it for what it is.

----------


## Dan Johnson

http://www.cmt.com/videos/alan-jacks...hern-man.jhtml

reminds me of this one... AJ's such a faker with that washboard!  :Smile:

----------


## Ed Goist

_"I was watching the coverage of the tornadoes backstage at rehearsals, and I wanted to do something for the families affected by the damage," says Taylor. "I've never opened a rehearsal to the public before, but I felt that inviting my fans to the last rehearsal for the Speak Now tour would be a great way to raise money."_

In my book, this gives her a handful of trump cards.

Play on young lady, play on!

----------


## Willie Poole

If some of you had your way there would only be "MUSIC" No definitions or anything like that, just music....

    The younger crowd can get their feet wet into bluegrass by tuning in on satallite radio 24 hours a day, but some of what they play ain`t bluegrass....

    I played on a festival one year and Grand Pa Jones was on the program and when he came on the stage most of the audience got up and left, he was an entertainer but certainly not bluegrass....

----------


## allenhopkins

> ...I played on a festival one year and Grand Pa Jones was on the program and when he came on the stage most of the audience got up and left, he was an entertainer but certainly not bluegrass....


And Willie, I love ya, man, but this is what drives me *nuts* about some bluegrass fans -- and jazz fans, classical music fans, rock fans, whatever.  Grandpa Jones was a legendary hillbilly musician, with a career of over 60 years.  He started as a teenager, became "Grandpa" at the age of 22 with the aid of make-up, and grew into the part over the decades.  He was a helluva clawhammer banjo player, a natural comedian, a dynamo onstage, and a link to the earliest years of commercial country music.  He also was a nationally-known TV "star" from his ongoing role on _Hee Haw,_ whatever you may think of that cornpone show.  I would have *loved* to have caught him live, before his death in 1998.

But because he wasn't "bluegrass" -- though his music strongly linked to the pre-bluegrass string band music of J E Mainer, Dave "Stringbean" Akeman, Snuffy Jenkins, "Uncle Dave" Macon,  _et. al._ -- "most of the audience got up and left."  Well, too bad for them, IMHO; they missed a chance to see one of the legends of country music.

When Bill Monroe was starting his Blue Grass Boys band, and touring with his country music show, he included comedians, African-American harmonica from DeFord Bailey, girl singers -- a "variety show," if you will.  Did his audiences get up and walk out when Monroe stopped and another act started?

Anyway, Jones was apparently "bluegrass" enough to play for Pres. and Mrs. Reagan, along with Monroe, Ricky Skaggs, Roy Acuff and Sen. Robert Byrd, at the CMA silver anniversary:



Wonder how many of the audience left when he walked out on stage...?

----------


## HddnKat

> Primary schools (k-12) are way more brutal than they were in my time (late 70s - late 80s).


I beg to differ - I was in middle school/high school back in the 70s- if you gave me the choice,  I'd rather take my chances swimming in a tank of hungry sharks  or be forced to listen to hours of the Back Street Boys then to ever go back to being in with a bunch of middle school girls - some scars never heal. :Frown:

----------


## Kevin Stevens

"If some of you had your way there would only be "MUSIC" No definitions or anything like that, just music...."

If some of us have our way there will ALWAYS be music. Why does there have to be anything excluded? Everyone has different tastes and preferences. I have seen TS make my 2 year old grand-daughter dance every time she hears one of her  songs. Like it or not popular music doesn't have to be defined, and if it infringes upon bluegrass it will only expose bluegrass to new listeners. 

There always seems to be a 'bluegrass/not bluegrass argument going on on this site, which is a mandolin site, not bluegrass. The mandolin has been around much longer than bluegrass.

----------


## Ivan Kelsall

Quote from *Kevin* - _"The Mandolin has been around much longer than bluegrass."_. That's very true,but ask yourself *honestly*,where do you think Mandolin would be right now if it weren't for Bluegrass ?. I accept that there are other styles beiong played ie. Jazz-Grass, Jazz,Blues (i'll leave the 'Classical' Mandolin players out of this),but i see those styles as riding on the back of the upsurge in Mandolin popularity as engendered by Bluegrass,specifically,Bill Monroe & his Boys.
   I think that the ''Bluegrass / not Bluegrass'' arguments which you refer to as being par for the course,since i think the majority of us on here are Bluegrass players,although some might play more than one style. Yes,it IS a Mandolin site,but since Mandolins are there for us to play music upon,then arguments 'pro & con' (i prefer to call them enlivened discussions) will always be on here,that's what keeps this site on it's toes - there's alway a new 'enlivened discussion',
                                                                                                      Ivan :Wink:

----------


## swampstomper

"Anyway, Jones was apparently "bluegrass" enough to play for Pres. and Mrs. Reagan, along with Monroe, Ricky Skaggs, Roy Acuff and Sen. Robert Byrd, at the CMA silver anniversary"

Wow what a fun clip! Mr Monroe obviously has no problem standing up there with Grandpa, Roy Acuff, the Fiddlin' Senator, or even Ricky with that amazing hairdo (I might have walked out when I saw that....). He gets in a "powerful" solo, good choice of song. Look at Mon's right hand, he never "chops", it's all the loping rhythm driving that piece along.

----------


## catmandu2

> If some of you had your way there would only be "MUSIC" No definitions or anything like that, just music....


Yes, that would be very healthy.  This is kind of how a lot of "art music" is regarded -- for lack of better descriptors.  Of course, this music won't sell, because retailers don't know which bin to put it in...and most folks don't know _what_ to call it, (*or how to feel about it*), etc.  "Labels and definitions" are helpful in these matters.





> "...Ricky with that amazing hairdo


That is one immaculately groomed pelt!

----------


## 250sc

"If some of you had your way there would only be "MUSIC" No definitions or anything like that, just music...."

Yes, that would work for me too. Then I can decide for myself if it speaks to me. Even if it doesn't speak to me it is good to know that other things are happening and if you never look outside of your comfort zone you'll be less likely to grow. I can equate it to someone who won't eat anything that they've never had before. You can live comfortably like that but personally, I feel my life is enriched by sampling the things that are being offered. You can't gain perspective with blinders on.

----------


## stratman62

Thanks Allen, as always you are articulate and well researched!

----------


## mandolino maximus

That was some exciting bluegrass mandolin in that clip.  Gotta have a reference point and that mando's right there.  But as far as what defines bluegrass, it's gotta be the hair.  A couple of years ago, the wind blew down Delfest.  But Del's hair was reportedly perfect.  I personally think - based on her fine hair - that Taylor Swift will mature into a fine bluegrass singer.

Speaking of Grandpa Jones - again - stop by Mountain View Arkansas where he and his family made their home and where all kinds of mountain, gospel and bluegrass gets played on the sqaure and at the nearby state park.  They like mandolins there.  But if you're so into bluegrass that you want no part of the roots of bluegrass, just stay away.  You may also want to stay away from concerts by Mike Compton since he will often do bluegrass standards in their original style.

----------


## Willie Poole

I wasn`t say anything against Grand Pa Jones, I was just stating that at a bluegrass festival he wasn`t considered bluegrass, I watch him every chance I get and I think he has the knack of being funny when he isn`t even trying, his act would have come under the title of "Hillbilly " music which is what country and bluegrass was back when I was a kid...I`ve seen some great entertaiers being walked out on at festivals because they were either "plugged in" or playing with non standard bluegrass instruments or as in one case started preaching his religion....That don`t mean I didn`t listen...AHEM....

   Just yesterday my band played a herb show at a huge park where there two stages are set up, far enough apart that one didn`t bother the other, on one of our breaks I walked around to the other stage and listened to the band and they were very good and played mostly the more modern "country" sound, but like I said, they were good....There was a listening audience of three people sitting listening to them....At no time at our stage was there ever less tha 40-50 people sitting at a given time, I even mentioned to the crowd that there was a good band playing down on the other end of the park and they should give a listen to them...Some of the people came up and said they liked bluegrass so much more than the new country that they shy away from end of the park....I bring this up because some you say in your opinion that if it was just called music it would be alright with you, maybe so from a listening point of view if you are into buying CD`s and such but believe you me from my travels, which are many, I have been performing for over 50 years, people like to have their music placed into a catagory all by itself, that why bluegrass broke away from Hillbilly/country  and now they are defined seperatly....I don`t expect to change anyones mind set on this, just telling it like I see it at my shows and travels...I love a lot of forms of music and listen to much more than just bluegrass, as soon as I leave the festival grounds I don`t want to hear any more bluegrass for a few days so my cd player is playing other forms of music as I drive to my next destination....

    Sorry to be so long winded but sometimes a lot of people take shots at us and we need the space to answer them....

   There is some great discussions on here and most of you, just like me, have their likes and dislikes and I guess just want to express their feelings, I am the same way, I like to let you know what I think and feel and don`t really care if you agree or disagree with my opinions, I just want you to know why I say certain things....Please if you disagree say so but don`t try to bury me.....

    Thanks.....Willie

----------


## catmandu2

Willie, at the herb shows out here -- both trads and neos all enjoy!

----------


## Jim Broyles

> If some of you had your way there would only be "MUSIC" No definitions or anything like that, just music....


And this wrong....how??? There are only two kinds of music anyway. Good music and bad music. Are you saying you don't like anything but bluegrass?  If so, cool, I guess, but there's a lot of good music out there that isn't bluegrass, and this Taylor Swift song is one of them to a lot of people, including me.

----------


## Jim Broyles

> *Look at Mon's right hand, he never "chops", it's all the loping rhythm driving that piece along.*


This is what I have been telling this board for years. Bluegrass does not require a chop and especially not a particularly fingered chop chord.

----------


## Jim Nollman

i've never been  a fan of "pure" bluegrass. But the performances you hear at just about any bona fide bluegrass festival is among the most creative music to be heard anywhere these days. What people are doing with fiddles, banjos, mandolins, bass, etc is quite wonderful. For just one example, one of the most improbable and eye-opening things I heard at Wintergrass a few years back was nearly a whole set of Charlie Mingus material, played by a very young band fronted by a very talented woman on bass. Can't recall their name.

----------


## Willie Poole

I`m waiting for the day when a rap band shows up with a mandolin and a banjo and gets booked on a bluegrass festival....You want creative styles and expanding the bluegrass music out then that would just about take the cake for me....

     BTW, my grandson is into rap and has his own show, do I go and watch it?  It seems that I am always busy doing something else that I can`t seem to make it to his shows (said with a tongue (sp) in cheek)

----------


## JEStanek

I wish I could find the link, but a few years back, someone had posted a video of a Parliament Funkadelic show (from WV I believe) with e-Mando in it.  I would watch that again, it was fantastic.

Jamie

----------


## Larry S Sherman

> I`m waiting for the day when a rap band shows up with a mandolin and a banjo and gets booked on a bluegrass festival....You want creative styles and expanding the bluegrass music out then that would just about take the cake for me....


It's been done. The Deadly Gentlemen have been doing it for a few years now.



Larry

----------


## allenhopkins

> Thanks Allen, as always you are articulate and well researched!


Thank *you,* Dwight.  Notice that Jones had his banjo tuned two frets high, to open "A"?  The band jumped up a key when he joined in.  And I think it's fascinating that the "CMA Silver Anniversary 'Bluegrass' Band" didn't have Scruggs-style banjo, just Jones' pre-bluegrass clawhammer style.

----------


## 250sc

> I`m waiting for the day when a rap band shows up with a mandolin and a banjo and gets booked on a bluegrass festival....You want creative styles and expanding the bluegrass music out then that would just about take the cake for me....
> 
>      BTW, my grandson is into rap and has his own show, do I go and watch it?  It seems that I am always busy doing something else that I can`t seem to make it to his shows (said with a tongue (sp) in cheek)


Willie,

I have grandkids into music too but unlike your approach of not participating I listen to their music when I'm with them and ask them what is in it that attracts them. I don't try to change their tastes but I'm in a position to make then think and not just consume what their friends and pop culture find marketable. 

If you shut them out, they'll shut you out which is a loose loose situation.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Willie,
> 
> I have grandkids into music too but unlike your approach of not participating I listen to their music when I'm with them and ask them what is in it that attracts them. I don't try to change their tastes but I'm in a position to make then think and not just consume what their friends and pop culture find marketable. 
> If you shut them out, they'll shut you out which is a loose loose situation.


That is so true. My oldest daughter, now 26, had to grow up in house with a hardcore music fan (me) and having to listen to a wide variety of music, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Dead, Hendix to Van Zandt, Guy Clark, George Jones , Haggard  and very heavy focus on trad country like Monroe and the Stanleys and the like, all of which she digs. When she was 15 she went off to Milan to work as a model for 7 years, we were always in contact and when she was home she'd go with me to concerts, she came home early one time just so she could see a George Jones show. Of course she has her own favourite styles too and turned me onto stuff like System of a Down and Rage Against the Machine, Michael Franti and K'naan. I figured that if she had the good taste to like what I liked then the music that she liked must be worthwhile. :Smile:  And it is. Now she has taken up frailing banjo, inspired by the likes of Gillian Welch and Sarah Jarosz and just last weekend we got together to play some mando and banjo stuff. Great time.
  Like you say, to not share with your kids is a losing situation, for them and for you. Obviously, I'm very happy with my win-win situation.

----------


## catmandu2

Yes Willie, as others have pointed out--rigid boundaries serve to limit communication.  When you're dead and gone, your grandson might say, "yeah, grampa Willie hated my music...I wasn't too inclined to accomodate his preferences either..."

Or, he might say, "grandpa Willie was cool--he liked this old-fogey stuff...but he gave my music a chance too...here's a song he used to do..."

----------


## Willie Poole

First off you don`t know me or my gradnson, I am very supportive of things that he does, I go to his football games, his track meets, his Lacross matches and I take him fishing in my boat and he tells everyone that his "Pap-Pap" is cool so not sharing his music is OK with him, he is smart enough to uhderstand that his rap music is not enjoyed by everyone...He is a straight A honor student and is probably a lot smarter at 17 than most of you people on here....

    I understand your responses but we are a lot closer than I made it sound on here...I support him in everything he does except for the rap and like I said he understands and also doesn`t like bluegrass so we are even, he does want me to teach him to play guitar, he already plays keyboard so it shouldn`t be too hard to get him up and going on the guitar...When I play a gig close to home the rest of his family comes to listen but he don`t and that is OK with me as long as we understand each other....

   Think hard, do you support your kin in everything they do?

----------


## catmandu2

Willie, no doubt you are a most capable parent and of course understand your family better than we--not meant to offend.  Of course your relationship with BG and music is your unique experience and I should not have presumed--a good Memorial Day to you.

I was thinking of the time when the Middle School band/orchestra teacher poo-pooed the Led Zepplin album we were all into.  Sure, it wasn't Prokofiev.  Still, we thought he was an ### for being arrogant.  The point is, the teacher's POV--and interest in comparing the musical genres--was totally beside the point...

----------


## journeybear

In case anyone still cares about, or even remembers, the OT, Taylor and band just performed "Mean" on the Ellen DeGeneres show - live, no hay bales, goats, or auto-tuning (whoever said that in the first place was off base, BTW) - and a right nice job she did, too. So what if she plays a banjar on this. I have played a banjolin on occasion, when that sound was needed and the learning curve for banjo was not, and no long-lasting ill effects were noticed. 

All right, that's all. We now return you to your previously scheduled programming, already (bewilderingly, still) in progress.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Think hard, do you support your kin in everything they do?


 Absolutely, support does not necessarily mean agreeing with them or liking their hobbies.

----------


## catmandu2

> I figured that if she had the good taste...


You know, this is a point I normally would mention from the start, but thanks to Mike for pointing it out:

There is some good hip-hop and other modern sounds "out there."  And I don't mean to pick on Willie, but it's our loss to miss it because we can't relate.


Mea culpa: I _am_ losing the whole of hair/glam rock, shred/death/metal...and 95% of commercial pop music (country, rock, whatever..)

----------


## Mike Bunting

> In case anyone still cares about, or even remembers, the OT, Taylor and band just performed "Mean" on the Ellen DeGeneres show - live, no hay bales, goats, or auto-tuning (whoever said that in the first place was off base, BTW) - and a right nice job she did, too. So what if she plays a banjar on this. I have played a banjolin on occasion, when that sound was needed and the learning curve for banjo was not, and no long-lasting ill effects were noticed. 
> 
> All right, that's all. We now return you to your previously scheduled programming, already (bewilderingly, still) in progress.


Banjolin! Well now, that's a whole other thing! Just because you didn't notice any long-lasting ill effects doesn't mean that there were no deep permanent scars left in your audience's impressionable minds!  :Smile:

----------


## journeybear

I also meant to myself!  :Grin:  After all, I was closest to it for the longest time ...  :Disbelief:

----------


## journeybear

OK, here is a clip of Taylor Swift and band doing "Mean" on _Ellen_ Monday. I think it's pretty darned good. I particularly like the harmony work at the end. Those three girls clearly have studied the old bluegrass and gospel one-mike approach. There is a nice bit of mandolin early on, too. Her voice is still a little young, but improving all the time, and on this rendition it is right in her comfort zone. I rather like this. I can't fault her for using her cuteness and body language to help put the song over. These are time-honored techniques, and if you haven't noticed them before you haven't been paying attention. If this is what happens when someone from outside the trad area ventures into it - never really got what Scotti's objection was - with taste and a sense of what works within this area, I welcome it.  :Mandosmiley:

----------


## Mike Bunting

> OK, here is a clip of Taylor Swift and band doing "Mean" on _Ellen_ Monday. I think it's pretty darned good. I particularly like the harmony work at the end. Those three girls clearly have studied the old bluegrass and gospel one-mike approach. There is a nice bit of mandolin early on, too. Her voice is still a little young, but improving all the time, and on this rendition it is right in her comfort zone. I rather like this. I can't fault her for using her cuteness and body language to help put the song over. These are time-honored techniques, and if you haven't noticed them before you haven't been paying attention. If this is what happens when someone from outside the trad area ventures into it - never really got what Scotti's objection was - with taste and a sense of what works within this area, I welcome it.


Still can't get behind that song or performance. The song is sophomoric, has no serious melody. The trio vocals have nothing to do with bluegrass or gospel trios, just because they are singing towards one mic means nothing, the overhead mics are probably doing most of the work anyhow. The instrumentation means nothing, it's just a typical Nashville pop arrangement. Mediocrity does not interest me in the least.

----------


## catmandu2

> OK, here is a clip of Taylor Swift and band doing "Mean" on _Ellen_ Monday. I think it's pretty darned good. I particularly like the harmony work at the end. Those three girls clearly have studied the old bluegrass and gospel one-mike approach. There is a nice bit of mandolin early on, too. Her voice is still a little young, but improving all the time, and on this rendition it is right in her comfort zone. I rather like this. I can't fault her for using her cuteness and body language to help put the song over. These are time-honored techniques, and if you haven't noticed them before you haven't been paying attention. If this is what happens when someone from outside the trad area ventures into it - never really got what Scotti's objection was - with taste and a sense of what works within this area, I welcome it.


see post #97  (If those serious about folk/blues/bluegrass/whatever are looking to this for content, PM me for advice..   :Wink:  )

----------


## Nick Triesch

I think that song is great!  Her back up singers are very good also.  Mandolin work was tight.  It all sounded like it had a bluegrass flair but cleaned up a bit.  Is happy music so bad?    Nick

----------


## Ed Goist

To avoid further flamage, I'll just congratulate Mike Meadows for his tight performance on mandolin, and thank him for exposing our wonderful instrument to the millions of people in Ellen's audience. I am sure that for many it was the first time they ever saw a mandolin.

Congratulations also to Jeff Cowherd of JBovier for having one of his JBovier Blackface F5Z mandolins showcased in such a high visibility way!

----------


## barney 59

I don't get what the deal is? Someone mentioned that they thought the song sounded sophomoric. It doesn't sound sophomoric, it is sophomoric and intentionally so! TS is singing and writing songs for teenagers and teen issues..bullying,first boyfriends-- by someone that is also a teenager,or practically so. This particular song happens to be being played with acoustic instrumentation with a bit of country twang to it and is a little catchy, otherwise for most here it would have completely fallen under our radar. The fact that doing what she does has made her one of the most successful recording artists of all time ...well, what can I say, maybe some of us geezers need to start buying more records than our children do.

----------


## Steve-o

It still is country Kool-aid, but my hat's off to Taylor for her magnanimous gesture to the tornado victims.

----------


## allenhopkins

Does anyone know if bands on _Ellen_ play live or synch to recorded tracks?  I thought I kept hearing a finger-picked banjo somewhere down in the mix, but Swift was flat-picking her Deering (think it's a Deering), so definitely wasn't her, and no other banjo onstage...

There are some discussions on *the Ellen website* as to whether other acts like Willow Smith lip-synched, no definitive answer...

----------


## Charlieshafer

Here's a non-answer, unfortunately. I don't know about ELLEN specifically, but I know on other talk shows it can be either live or lip-synched, and sometimes a blend. Backing track in the background helping to give it a richer sound, with the band on stage playing live. So, the answer is each performance is different, but the producers do make sure that if it's live, it's tightly-controlled on the technical and performance end for timing reasons (got to fit those sponsors in), as well as any language gaffes.

----------


## journeybear

I think that, generally speaking, performances on these shows are recorded live and broadcast later. This is how the producers are able to tease upcoming segments with clips of footage. Sometimes, as on the current Friday morning concert series on Today and GMA, they are broadcast live, probably with a five second delay to permit language censorship. I believe the networks are sensitive about this after the Ashlee Simpson oopsie on SNL a few years back. But sometimes these performances do contain backing tracks, as some performers and bands want to recreate their studio recordings, or for some such reasons. This seems live to me. I don't hear any fingerpicked banjo; perhaps what you heard was some mandolin crosspicking or the flatpicked figure around 3:00? It kind of replicates simple fingerpicking.

BTW, this song has more melody than some - make that a lot - of Hank Williams' songs. FWIW. (Not much.)

----------


## allenhopkins

> ...I don't hear any fingerpicked banjo; perhaps what you heard was some mandolin crosspicking or the flatpicked figure around 3:00? It kind of replicates simple fingerpicking...


Listening again, I think you may be right; the *patterns* sound like banjo, but the *timbre* doesn't.  The song still seems pretty disposable to me, but I'm not a middle-school girl being bullied by "Heathers."  And I sure don't feel any *resentment* that Swift is using bluegrass instruments on a teeny-bopper country song.  Someone mentioned in the Steve Earle thread, that instrumentalists who play fairly simple, accessible "hooks," are more likely to attract young musicians to take up their particular instruments, than instrumentalists who play with complex virtuosity.  If a new generation of musicians disproportionately takes up the guitar-banjo, we'll know whom to blame...

----------


## catmandu2

Banjos have been becoming ever more popular -- and 6-string banjos part of that, and probably not because Neil Young's iconic application on the Harvest sessions 40 years ago, but likely from more contemporary influences: bluegrass/Americana, and the ubiquitous jam band.  I've long theorized that young folks (in college towns) are more often than not turned on to mandolins and folk music via Jerry Garcia (et al.).  Like Gold Tone and their large assortment of banjo offerings, Lanakai is now offering a couple of banjo-ukes.

And now we are a generation removed from "Deliverance."

----------


## mandolino maximus

> Banjos have been becoming ever more popular -- and 6-string banjos part of that, and probably not because Neil Young's iconic application on the Harvest sessions 40 years ago, but likely from more contemporary influences: bluegrass/Americana, and the ubiquitous jam band.  I've long theorized that young folks (in college towns) are more often than not turned on to mandolins and folk music via Jerry Garcia (et al.).  Like Gold Tone and their large assortment of banjo offerings, Lanakai is now offering a couple of banjo-ukes.
> 
> And now we are a generation removed from "Deliverance."


Speaking of generations removed, Garcia's been gone for 16 years on 8/9.  Longer than Bill.  

I'd say Steve Martin could take some credit for the banjo.  He's certainly been on Letterman numerous times with numerous players.  Then again, when I say I went to see Steve Martin, people don't seem to realize he plays banjo.  BTW, Steve's best line is introducing a song that his wife named for him.  The name:  "Don't You Know Any Other Songs Besides That One."  The wife laughed a little too hard at that one.

----------


## MikeEdgerton

> ...If a new generation of musicians disproportionately takes up the guitar-banjo, we'll know whom to blame...


As a 6-string banjo player I'm still looking for an original Gibson neck that somebody took off to make it a 5-string.... Oh wait, you have one of those necks!  :Cool:

----------


## allenhopkins

> As a 6-string banjo player I'm still looking for an original Gibson neck that somebody took off to make it a 5-string.... Oh wait, you have one of those necks!


Yas, I do -- off a ball-bearing GB-3 Mastertone.

----------


## Ed Goist

Ricky Skaggs as quoted in USA TODAY by Robert Deutsch, as part of their coverage of the 40th CMA Music Festival:

_"When I saw the way that Taylor Swift handled Kanye West, God changed my heart for her and I knew something in her was really good,"_ said bluegrass icon Ricky Skaggs, pictured here with his mandolin "PeeWee."

----------


## Marty Henrickson

I think we should all give Ricky and PeeWee some privacy!  :Laughing:   :Wink:

----------


## allenhopkins

Hey, Ricky, get a room, OK?

----------


## Pete Summers

I can't believe this thread has run on for six pages over this young woman's work. Amazing.

I'm not trying to compare TS to the following, but it might be worth remembering that Mozart, Chopin, Beethoven, Scott Joplin, Louis Armstrong, Elvis Presley, Hank Williams, Bill Monroe, the Beatles, Jim Hendrix, et al, faced blistering cynicism of their work in their own time. As usual, it was all blowin' in the wind, amounting to exactly nothing (to paraphrase Bob Dylan, another often criticized musician).

Frankly, I think ALL criticism of any Art is absolute BS. It expresses nothing about the art and everything about the limitations of the critic. You either like this young woman's music, or you don't. So what?

----------


## catmandu2

> ...Mozart, Chopin, Beethoven, Scott Joplin, Louis Armstrong, Elvis Presley, Hank Williams, Bill Monroe, the Beatles, Jim Hendrix...


...Taylor Swift

(erhem, er em, cough* ... jack white  :Redface:  :Wink:  )

Look, in this crazy wolrd, Jack and Taylor could get togther, have a baby named Amadeus or Dweezil, and play trad Monroe...what it be that surprising?  They've landed folks on the moon, I mean...

----------


## Willie Poole

I watched that clip that Allen sent and just have to comment, as a bluegrass fan I enjoyed it but I have found that when playing bluegrass for a lot of people that travel in those high society circles that they like your music but don`t spend one dime on CD`s or tapes and such....I used to have a weekly gig at a fancy place on the Caheapeake Bay where the people would come in their yachts and have dinner and then come into the bar area and listen to my band play bluegrass for about three hours, I played ther about 20 weeks and sold not one CD or tape...I don`t know how to explain it and I wonder if those people in the audience of that clip actually knew who all of those pickers were, you know some of those places flash an "Applause" sign and that gets the crowd stirred up....I`m sure Reagan loved it because he was a country/bluegrass lover...I wonder what other kind of bands they had there also...

----------


## Jim Broyles

> I watched that clip that Allen sent and just have to comment, as a bluegrass fan I enjoyed it but I have found that when playing bluegrass for a lot of people that travel in those high society circles that they like your music but don`t spend one dime on CD`s or tapes and such....I used to have a weekly gig at a fancy place on the Caheapeake Bay where the people would come in their yachts and have dinner and then come into the bar area and listen to my band play bluegrass for about three hours, I played ther about 20 weeks and sold not one CD or tape...I don`t know how to explain it and I wonder if those people in the audience of that clip actually knew who all of those pickers were, you know some of those places flash an "Applause" sign and that gets the crowd stirred up....I`m sure Reagan loved it because he was a country/bluegrass lover...I wonder what other kind of bands they had there also...


Hey Willie, don't take this the wrong way, but maybe they didn't really like your band that much.  Possible, no? I mean I like the music we play at our jam but I'd never buy a CD of one of them.

BTW, where is Caheapeake Bay?

----------


## catmandu2

> BTW, where is Caheapeake Bay?


Possibly, he means "Cheapskate Bay"... a place back East well known for its scallops, but also for bluegrass leeches..

----------


## mandolino maximus

Maybe those yachters enjoy buegrass, but are afraid to personally own some.  Peer pressure and all that.  Steve Martin (now he draws a lot of closet grassers) has a line about it just being easier than telling the truth to tell people in LA that he met the Steep Canyon Rangers in rehab.

Bluegrass, Newgrass, and now ... Closetgrass.

----------


## mando-red

I haven't been on this thing for a long time.  Just watched Taylor Swifts "Mean" video and I think it's great!  And I'm no kid!  I think she's a good role model for young people and it's good for them to see that bluegrass instruments played in whatever style can be "cool" instead of old fashioned and lame.  I hope she does more songs using this kind of back up.  (my $.02 worth)

----------


## allenhopkins

> I watched that clip that Allen sent and just have to comment, as a bluegrass fan I enjoyed it but I have found that when playing bluegrass for a lot of people that travel in those high society circles that they like your music but don`t spend one dime on CD`s or tapes and such....I`m sure Reagan loved it because he was a country/bluegrass lover...I wonder what other kind of bands they had there also...


I think Willie's referring to the clip of Monroe, Skaggs, Acuff, Sen. Byrd and Grandpa Jones performing as the "CMA Silver Anniversary Bluegrass Band" at the 25th anniversary of the Country Music Assoc. back in the 1980's.  I'd be surprised, looking at all the audience in tuxes and evening gowns, if they let anyone set up a table in the lobby to sell CD's, T-shirts, and trucker hats.

A lot of people who go out to hear a mixture of music varieties -- jazz, classical, rock, folk, country, bluegrass etc. -- aren't as used to the "merchandise table" phenomenon that's so common at BG festivals and concerts.  When I (infrequently) attend a Rochester Philharmonic concert, the conductor and first violinist aren't out at a table during intermission, signing CD's and shmoozing with the fans.  Just a different approach.  Willie's "yacht club" audience probably wasn't used to purchasing "product" at a concert or club.

Probably the CMA-related people in the audience knew who all the musicians were, and the political people didn't know (other than Sen. Byrd) and didn't care.  I've found most politicians with whom I've dealt, have been interested in politics, period.  You could have Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs and Doc Watson playing 30 feet away and they'd be oblivious, talking politics with other politicians.

End of hijack.  Taylor Swift's OK by me, bluegrass is a broad and inclusive genre, Deering makes a good quality guitar-banjo, Grandpa Jones is an iconic figure who will be missed, very few BG bands will add _Mean_ to their repertoire.  IMHO.

----------


## journeybear

I can see yachters being oblivious to the presence of a merch table if it were a one-time gig. But 20 weeks at the same place and not one sale? That kind of obtuseness is hard to swallow.

BTW, even if no bluegrass band covers "Mean" - doubtful supposition that, considering how many songs much more dissimilar from bluegrass stylistically have been successfully bluegrassized - I find it has just the right balance of melodic and lyrical content to lend itself to a variety of interpretations. I am working up a rocked-out version that really smokes. I am thinking of also doing it in a style that is an amalgam of industrial and house, with an instrumental passage that is pretty close to death metal.

----------


## Charlieshafer

It's tough when you're not in a venue dedicated to music. I agree that the vast majority of them didn't even know a merch table existed, and they weren't there for the music, anyway. It was all about the boats. And probably golf.

----------


## barney 59

After the yacht and the dinner maybe there wasn't anymore money left. Or maybe it's "trickle down"--- was a great theory but it seems that in practice that it's rarely done. "Oh Honey see the poor man selling his cds. Maybe we should go over and trickle down." Everyone at the table says in unison--"No way!"

----------


## Marty Henrickson

They were probably Steve Earle fans and Willie's music wasn't obscene enough. :Wink:

----------


## journeybear

The yacht crowd will have plenty of money left over after dinner. Just no cash on hand.  :Wink:

----------


## JeffD

> The yacht crowd will have plenty of money left over after dinner. Just no cash on hand.


 :Laughing:

----------


## Jack Roberts

well, I finally got around to watching the video and I loved it.  Thanks for posting it.  We don't have a TV so we never saw her in her rise to fame, but I can see now why she is so popular.  Great voice and I loved the message.  I would have loved that song when I was growing up.

----------


## Willie Poole

OK, I have been away for a few days so let me kinda straighten out what I meant, and Jim I hope you never make a mistake spelling a word....If I catch you mis-typing a word I won`t say a thing....And to think I passed typing in high school, but that was 100 years ago, at least it seems like it....My avatar says I am from Maryland so what other bay could I have meant? Remember geography from school?

   About the rich folks not buying CD`s, I should have phrased it a bit different, the crowds always seem to love the music and clapped and danced etc, what I meant by not selling any CD`s was that they like to go out and have a good time but don`t do anything to support or promote bluegrass...It isn`t about money because they were pretty generous putting bills in the tip jar, it`s just that away from a live band they just don`t care about the music....I didn`t post it as a complaint, just an observation on my part at that one place...As far as the band not being very good well I had some top pickers with me on that gig and we did a pretty darned good job....The audiences always told the management that they enjoyed themselves, thats why we stayed there all summer and fall...

     I know that some of you just nit pick on here so I`ll just let it pass....

     Willie

----------


## Jim Broyles

Willie, I was serious. I figured that Bay was somewhere and I just never heard of it. "Cahea" never occurred to me to be a typo of "Chesa," especially when it comes to those Indian names of bodies of water in the US. Plus, nobody said anything about the band not being very good. I said, maybe they didn't like it. Quite a difference.  Taylor Swift is still pretty good. As far as the patrons saying they enjoyed it - I enjoyed a Barry Manilow concert my ex-wife dragged me to, but I wouldn't buy any of his recordings.

----------


## Kevin Stevens

Hey Willie I would like to buy one of your CD's. How can I get one?

----------


## Willie Poole

Kevin, I sent you a PM so use it to get intouch with me....Thanks for the offer....Willie

----------


## Tom Smart

Why can't they just leave us alone?

And while they're at it, why don't they buy more of our CDs?

----------


## mandopete

"Yo Taylor I'm really happy for you and  ima let you finish an all, but Bill Monroe was best mannalin player of all time, of all time!"

----------


## journeybear

I know it can be dangerous to bump an old thread (especially the long and winding kind), but I learned something about the song "Mean" in last night's "60 Minutes" feature - the original inspiration for it. Seems it was written in response to the bashing she got from critics after her duet with Stevie Nicks at The Grammys show last year, in which she was badly off-pitch. She was, true enough, but some were writing her off as a has-been on the basis of one bad performance (As she said, "Why you gotta be so mean?") So this began as a classic example of songwriter's revenge - put your response in a song, and if it becomes a hit, that person gets tweaked repeatedly, like the death of a thousand cuts.  :Grin:  To her credit, she didn't just leave it there, but turned it into a stance against bullying, and people have picked up on this aspect of it and run with it - which is a good thing.

----------


## Barry Wilson

I liked the song. All the hate in this thread though kinda blows me away.

----------


## journeybear

You summed it up quite well. Glad you read through the thread (a lot of people don't before jumping in), but sorry for that effect. It was pretty surprising, but I think we got through it.

I really hope we don't rehash all that. No need. I just wanted to share with people how the song got started in the first place.

----------


## allenhopkins

Swift won "Entertainer of the Year" at the American Music Awards last night.  That _60 Minutes_ profile made me really respect her, even though I won't be listening to her music much.  One of the great things about the musical diversity in our country, is that no style of music ever gets "left alone," with musicians experimenting with hybrids and blends, adding elements of different genres to produce hyphenated musics that can be great, passable/perishable, or god-awful.

I'm glad Bill Monroe didn't "leave string band music, blues, and hillbilly pop alone" when he was working his way toward bluegrass.

----------


## barney 59

She's a pretty smart clever girl and from that interview on 60 minutes you get that she isn't some industry creation but her own creation. Dumped a contract with Mercury Records when she was 14 and unknown to go with a small start up label that would let her do her own songs. She has no management,she runs that herself. I was surprised to find out that she is the biggest grossing recording artist of all time. I probably didn't think this when I was younger but now that I'm old I see it much differently--cute gets a pass!

----------


## DrEugeneStrickland

The power of the pre teen and teenage girl in the commercial market place should never be underestimated ... glad she writes her own songs,that alone is a skill worthy of the term "role model"!!!

----------


## jim simpson

> Hey, Ricky, get a room, OK?


I don't know how I missed this thread before but the above quote made reading it worthwhile!

----------


## Spruce

.......

----------


## Rosemary Philips

Seems to me this thread is precisely what the song is about--putting people down because they don't conform to your idea of what they should be. It's a pop song. Why so threatened by it?

----------


## journeybear

Why bring it back? Five months later!  :Disbelief:  Why couldn't _you_  just leave _it_ alone?  :Confused:  Why???  :Crying:

----------


## Rosemary Philips

Oops, guess I was a little late to the dance... :Redface:

----------


## mandolino maximus

Taylor Swift is one of those Mandolin Cafe buzzwords .. like Thile and Loar.

Speaking of high and lonesome, has anybody heard whether Justin Bieber will be at Bean Blossom again this year? With Taylor joining him on mando, it would be just like ...  

Newgrass, but with money.  :Whistling:

----------


## billkilpatrick

who is "they?" - who is "us?" - have we met?  girls are fun - you don't have to be afraid of 'em

----------


## Rosemary Philips

> Taylor Swift is one of those Mandolin Cafe buzzwords .. like Thile and Loar.
> 
> Speaking of high and lonesome, has anybody heard whether Justin Bieber will be at Bean Blossom again this year? With Taylor joining him on mando, it would be just like ...  
> 
> Newgrass, but with money.


Damn! I knew Bean Blossom was the place to be...

----------


## benbonewilly

I really like the song and the instrumentation.

----------


## Jim Yates

I like it.  I wouldn't buy it, but I don't think it's supposed to be bluegrass and for what it is, country pop, I enjoyed it.  I listened till the end.

----------


## homejame

duh - sorry folks - I just got my head out a the sand - and Im a limey to - so who is Taylor Swift- or should I ask

----------


## Mike Bunting

> duh - sorry folks - I just got my head out a the sand - and Im a limey to - so who is Taylor Swift- or should I ask


Don't ask. Just another pop tart.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> duh - sorry folks - I just got my head out a the sand - and Im a limey to - so who is Taylor Swift- or should I ask


i was mystified as well.  appears she's a girl who sings about a bully and plays an instrument that looks and sounds a bit like a banjo ... and for some reason unbeknownst to me she seems to have aggrieved the op in this thread unmercifully by suggesting - in some way, manner or form - that "she" is in no way to be considered as one of "us."

it's ... it's chinatown, homejame

----------


## Mike Bunting

> duh - sorry folks - I just got my head out a the sand - and Im a limey to - so who is Taylor Swift- or should I ask


Don't ask. She is certainly no Imelda May.

----------


## JEStanek

Here.  She's an American po/country artist who has mass appeal to the younger kids, primarily.  While i'm not much of a fan the song she did for the Hunger Games soundtrack was pretty good.

Jamie

----------

jackmalonis

----------


## Ed Goist

> duh - sorry folks - I just got my head out a the sand - and Im a limey to - so who is Taylor Swift- or should I ask


Taylor Swift is an American singer-songwriter. She has sold over 22 million albums and 50 million song downloads worldwide.
Here is her very comprehensive wikipedia page.
I'm amazed you haven't heard of her (even considering you are European). I would estimate that for every person who has heard of either Chris Thile or David Grisman 1,000+ people have heard of Taylor Swift.
She seems to be a very admirable and talented person.
YMMV.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> - that "she" is in no way to be considered as one of "us."


Who implied that?

----------


## billkilpatrick

> Who implied that?


gee, mike - just cast your eyes up a bit to the title line of your post - according to scotti adams, the op, "she" (taylor swift) appears to be a "they" (whosoever they are) who just can't leave "us" (have we met?) alone.

----------


## brunello97

> gee, mike - just cast your eyes up a bit to the title line of your post - according to scotti adams, the op, "she" (taylor swift) appears to be a "they" (whosoever they are) who just can't leave "us" (have we met?) alone.


"Perché non possono lasciarci soli?"

Probably some Italian guys thinking the same thing when Bill Monroe starting making that infernal racket with his "Florentine" mandolin. "Quello e non fa parte di niente!"

Mick

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## billkilpatrick

[QUOTE=brunello97;1075712"Quello e non fa parte di niente!"Mick[/QUOTE]

... you read it here first, folks.  

"cose fare guglielmo?"

----------


## Mike Bunting

> gee, mike - just cast your eyes up a bit to the title line of your post - according to scotti adams, the op, "she" (taylor swift) appears to be a "they" (whosoever they are) who just can't leave "us" (have we met?) alone.


Gee, bill, did you listen to the song. Why can't they leave us alone is the theme of the song, "
Mean". It would appear to be her who is discriminating between her and us.

----------


## brunello97

> ... you read it here first, folks.  
> 
> "cose fare guglielmo?"


That's Sig. Guglielmo to you, pilgrim.

----------


## billkilpatrick

> Gee, bill, did you listen to the song. Why can't they leave us alone is the theme of the song, "
> Mean". It would appear to be her who is discriminating between her and us.


gee (II) - you've really gone into this - tell all

----------


## billkilpatrick

> That's Sig. Guglielmo to you, pilgrim.


it's about thirteen hun'ert and fourty-four in the morning here in not-nashville and i'm going to sleep

----------


## sarai

> Id rather stick pins in my eyes than to watch that.


 agreed first time I saw this.



> A guitar-banjo?.. Really?


 I can't believe I just realized that was actually a guitar, didn't pay much attention the first time, just didn't think she was really playing a banjo (just for looks purposes)... but being that it's a guitar - that almost makes it an even worse fake.

----------


## sarai

> Probably some Italian guys thinking the same thing when Bill Monroe starting making that infernal racket with his "Florentine" mandolin. "Quello e non fa parte di niente!"


 Envisioning that is kinda funny...

----------


## Mandolin Mick

OK, I finally watched this. Yeah, whoever was behind this video was using a Bluegrass angle for the instrumentation. I really only like Classic Bluegrass, but I don't feel threatened by this. It's just another attempt by the Nashville money machine to cash-in. Harmless tune that's better than most of the garbage on the radio these days.

----------


## journeybear

Well, the recording existed before the video, so the video director and/or producer had nothing to do with the instrumentation. The _mise en scene,_ OK, though Taylor surely had some input there. My understanding is she has tremendous clout in Nashviklle these days owing to her immense sales figures and numerous awards (testaments to her popularity within the industry as well as the public), and she hardly needs to cash in on the vast bluegrass market and the untold dozens of albums she could sell to those consumers. I think this is more just an example of her imaginative approach to songwriting, arranging, and producing. She wanted a bluegrass feel for this song, so she went for it. Using a banjitar or guitarjo (never can remember what it's called; someone in Shakira's band played one on a song, too) enabled her to contribute that sound to the mix without having to learn the banjo. (I think there would be a majority here wishing there be no increase in the number of banjo pickers, anyway.) She played this on live appearances on talk shows, too, so it wasn't just for the recording. That leads me to think that is how she heard the song in her head. It's all good, as far as I'm concerned, or as much as I care.  (Just a bit.)

----------


## Mandolin Mick

Well, I guess it came across as a backhanded compliment, I'll give you that. However, I'll tell you who wades into Bluegrass waters occasionally, and I wish would just come over to our side is Patty Loveless!  :Smile:

----------


## sarai

> and I wish would just come over to our side is Patty Loveless!


 AGREED.  Love her voice in the bluegrass genre - and her ability to sing harmonies.  I don't care for her as a country artist per se.

----------


## Mike Bunting

Agree for sure on Patty Loveless, she can sing.

----------


## journeybear

I thought she did venture into bluegrass now and then, or worked bluegrass into her music sometimes. Hasn't she worked with Tim O'Brien some? Maybe that's Kathy Mattea. Martina McBride is also one of the good ones, far better than standard Nashville fare.

----------


## Marty Henrickson

> I thought she did venture into bluegrass now and then, or worked bluegrass into her music sometimes. Hasn't she worked with Tim O'Brien some? Maybe that's Kathy Mattea. Martina McBride is also one of the good ones, far better than standard Nashville fare.


 


> However, I'll tell you who wades into Bluegrass waters occasionally, and I wish would just come over to our side is Patty Loveless!


Read, JB.  They want her to come over to the bluegrass side and STAY.  :Wink:

----------


## billkilpatrick

sorry guys ... music is bigger and better and much more funner than what any of those nasty ol' bg nazis would have us believe:

----------

Ed Goist, 

jackmalonis, 

JEStanek, 

jmkatcher

----------


## Pete Summers

> sorry guys ... music is bigger and better and much more funner than what any of those nasty ol' bg nazis would have us believe:


Thanks for that charming and delightful video. What a little doll.

----------


## journeybear

> Read, JB.  They want her to come over to the bluegrass side and STAY.


Hmmm ... mebbe them country folks want the bluegrass folks to just leave THEM alone!  :Whistling: 

Can't we all just ... get along?  :Confused:

----------


## catmandu2

Bill is that your girl?--very well!  My kids say they don't know the song but they are obviously impressed...but they say "It looks more like a banjo than a mandolin"... Typical Americans I guess

----------


## Marty Henrickson

> Hmmm ... mebbe them country folks want the bluegrass folks to just leave THEM alone! 
> 
> Can't we all just ... get along?


LOL.

My nine-year-old daughter, a big Taylor Swift fan (well, I think she's more of a Carrie Underwood fan now, but she was on a big TS kick a while back), will sometimes get on me and her older sister's case for teasing her.  She'll say, "Why have you two got to be so mean?", at which time the older sister and I will instantaneously launch into _"Why you gotta be so mean?"_ (in perfect two-part harmony), and the 9-year-old says "STOP!"  Good times.  :Wink:   :Grin:

----------

billkilpatrick, 

journeybear

----------


## journeybear

Ya see? This stuff really DOES bring people together. Even people with as little in common as two sisters. And their dad.  :Wink:  I like to think the song's ability to provide emotional support and healing outweighs the divisiveness of the title and theme of this thread. But then, I'm a hopeless idealist.  :Smile:

----------

billkilpatrick

----------


## Marty Henrickson

> Ya see? This stuff really DOES bring people together. Even people with as little in common as two sisters. And their dad.  I like to think the song's ability to provide emotional support and healing outweighs the divisiveness of the title and theme of this thread. But then, I'm a hopeless idealist.


That's what we like about you, man - the sparkling idealism.  But I must refute one minor point - my wife says my daughters are just like me - much to her consternation!

----------

billkilpatrick, 

JEStanek

----------


## mandolino maximus

Congratulations to OP.  Looking back through the last 10 pages of bluegrass threads, this seems to be easily the most viewed thread unless I missed something.  You might say it's downright emblematic.  Not many chords, but a lot of picking.

----------


## journeybear

OH!!! You mean _this_ kind of picking!  :Laughing:

----------

billkilpatrick, 

jim farmer, 

MANNDOLINS

----------


## billkilpatrick

" ... ballll-zac!"

----------

jim farmer

----------


## sarai

> Martina McBride is also one of the good ones, far better than standard Nashville fare.


  I have never really heard Martina sing harmonies - don't get me wrong, I love her a ton I used to listen to her constantly.  But I like Patty because of her ability to blend in and sing harmonies too as part of the group.  NOnetheless it would be interesting to hear Martina sing some bluegrass style music ind more of a group setting.

The little girl is a doll! And how great that she is coordinated to sing and play with great timing - not easy for everyone so she is quite mature to do this so young.

----------


## jim farmer

Mizer Madison....pickin' mando for Miss Swift??

----------


## Jim Yates

I like this a lot better than most of the new country stuff.  I won't buy a CD, since it's not my type of music, but it's fine for what it is, better than *How Do You Like Me Now ?* or *Achy Breaky Heart*.
I just can't figure out why some folks think she's trying to play bluegrass.  She hasn't called it bluegrass.  Acoustic instruments doesn't mean "bluegrass".
Some folks called *Oh Brother* a bluegrass movie.  It also had very little bluegrass.

----------


## JeffD

Anything with a round instrument resembling a banjo is "bluegrass" to the general music consuming audience. The distinctions we all make are important, but only to us, inside what Niles calls the "bluegrass bubble".

----------


## Mike Bunting

> I like this a lot better than most of the new country stuff.  I won't buy a CD, since it's not my type of music, but it's fine for what it is, better than *How Do You Like Me Now ?* or *Achy Breaky Heart*.
> I just can't figure out why some folks think she's trying to play bluegrass.  She hasn't called it bluegrass.  Acoustic instruments doesn't mean "bluegrass".
> Some folks called *Oh Brother* a bluegrass movie.  It also had very little bluegrass.


Not everyone has said that she was attempting to play bluegrass, I, for one, just said it was lousy music.

----------


## JEStanek

The Squirrel Nut Zippers (and Catherine Whalen on banjo) certainly kicked off a hot jazz revival in the late 90s were never called bluegrass.

Jamie

----------


## mahoganyfolk.com

ohhh i really don't like taylor swift.. I really don't.

----------


## Nick Triesch

Because of Taylor Swift more young people are picking up acoustic instruments than ever before and learning to play and write songs.   That is a very good thing.  The same thing happened to me in 1964 when the Beatles came out.  Everyone was buying guitars.  She is one of the most successful singer songwriters in pop/country history....and she is only 22.

----------


## JEStanek

Now, she's gone punk (kind of).  Good fer her.



Jamie

----------

Ed Goist

----------


## Marty Henrickson

Catchy.  But here's my current favorite breakup song:

----------

JEStanek, 

Mike Bunting

----------


## Mandolin Mick

With all due respect ... being a popular songwriter in 2012 is not a plus ...  :Wink:

----------


## Charlieshafer

Aw, popular songwriters are just easier targets as everyone knows who they are. It's much harder to attack the unpopular ones, as no one is listening to their stuff.

----------


## Londy

> A guitar-banjo?.. Really?


Yeah, a fake banjo.  Can she even play guitar anyhow?

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Catchy.  But here's my current favorite breakup song:


Now you're talkin'!

----------

