# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  The new hippie bluegrass

## Uath

OK, I'm getting old. I'm 48, but I still have the beard (gray) and the pony tail (balding) of my youth. I've also been playing banjo and have been a HUGE bluegrass fan all of my life. I know there are others like mo out there...all you hippies.
Do you feel like the new "hippie" bands are being shortchanged? 
I listen to Bluegrass Junction all the time, but it's gotten so traditional, and gospel. The new bands they seem to pump so hard all seem to be the Nashville Country-type bands. You hear more and more songs that don't even have a banjo, just some sappy singer and a country riff. They never play Nickel Creek, Leftover Salmon, Hot Buttered Rum, Mountain Earth, Dred Clampetts, Yonder Mountain. Please don't tell me they're "not really bluegrass." That's just plain foolish. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Give some room to the jam bands.
I've heard that music is being divided politically now. Rock and Rap go to the Democrats, the Left, and the Pagans. Country, Bluegrass, and Gospel, go to the Republicans, the Right, and the Conservative Christians. I don't want it to be like that! Music should be fun. There shold still be room for Chris Thile to stand next to Jimmy Martin. XM shold broaden their bluegrass horizons.

----------


## Bigtuna

I second that, you could have an entire XM station devoted to "new grass" or just have a show on for a hour or so that plays nothing but progressive bluegrass.

----------


## lgc

I'll agree to that when the jam stations start playing a heavy rotation of Monroe and Jimmy Martin and when the jam bands start playing more gospel.

----------


## rekx

XM's bluegrass station is horrible compared to Sirius'. I had XM in my car for 2 years and I eventually canceled it because I never listened to their stations. I now have a Sirius and I love it. Not to mention the Grateful Dead channel on Sirius.

----------


## Jkf_Alone

i dont hear ANY bluegrass, or good acoustic music on country stations for the most part. i hear some pretty good 90's rock with a southern accent though, and with occasional mandolin and banjo seasoning to boot. actually christian stations are playing form pretty decent stuff from the new glory revealed album, the mando player is good and the songs are well written. jam bands arent played on bigger stations because they dont fit into format, also they have limited appeal. 

 if your asking why stations dont play long winded instrumental tunes, its because there is a VERY limited market for them. 1 word says a lot more than 100 notes. i enjoy instrumental music as much as the next guy, but all music ultimately comes from the voice and language. instruments all imitate what the human voice can do. and it is their limitations that make them sound so interesting. i would rather hear a well crafted vocal song than the best instrumental jam ever recorded.

finally, why not dump xm, buy an mp3 player and download your CD collection onto it. you can buy 12 to 24 cds a year or 1000's of songs online and still be cheaper than XM. that way you can listen to whatever you feel like at the time. 
*radio is dead*

----------


## lovethemf5s

Uath,
I've been a pagan liberal Democrat for over 40 years and have been playing and listening to bluegrass for just as long. Could be that living on the west coast has something to do with it. I'm not sure.

----------


## Sonomabob

This won't work for the car, but if you are on the net, go to pandora.com. You can make your own station(s) with the artists you like. Lots of Chris Thiele, Grisman, whoever etc.

You can also grab stations that other people have developed.

It works great for me.

Bob

----------


## Kevin Briggs

I agree, the music I enjoy most is never played on the radio, even the bluegrass stations. Sometimes I hear a Yonder Mountain song on the bluegrass station on digital cable, but usually never. I understand the marketing thing and needing only 3-4 minutes for each song, but I don't even listen to radio because the music generally stinks. maybe they would gain some new listeners if they played something other than Toby Keith or whatever.

----------


## poymando

Interesting question. Perhaps a check of the postings here:
http://lists.psu.edu/archives/folkdj-l.html
might give you an idea of where/who is playing jamgrass on the radio.

----------


## Steve Davis

Live365.com has mandozine radio and mandolin radio. I listen to both during the day. Unfortunately can't get them except online.

----------


## Uath

I think what we're seeing is XM radio excluding hippie bands on purpose. It's true that jam bands don't play much gospel, or Jimmy Martin, but gospel is being played continually on XM, and so is Jimmy. XM also hosts the BG music channel on Direct TV. They are a huge national station. Why would they exclude a large section of music that they claim to love?
I think the answer is the Nashvilleization of Bluegrass. Jam bands just don't fit in with the Christian/blue collar song machine that is the country music industry. Can you believe that something billed as folk music is put together by a computer? A mandolin player e-mailing his solo in to a studio? Is that "back to the country?" NO, it's big corporate music. 
I do believe it's a political statement also. The movers in country music (include Bluegrass) really are pushing a conservative Christian agenda. Jam bands are hippies, and hippies are hated enemies of the neoconservatives. We can't let our music be hijacked by politicians of either stripe.
I think the defining moment for me was that Kenny and Amanda Smith song about a boy who's family didn't take him to church. Naturally, he turned to drugs and crime. How can a statement like that make it to the national airwaves?
I made sure my own two kids never went to church. They're both honor students at state universities.

----------


## tkdboyd

I like Grass, Blue, New, and Jam. By that admission it doesn't mean that I am a Bible Beating Baptist, or an Atheistic promoter of any Darwinian Bulldogs. I like Grisman, that doesn't make me hate "neocons". I like Doyle Lawson and Ricky Skaggs, doesn't mean that I want liberals to swim the River Styx. Music doesn't need any more polarization than it already has. If you dig something good for you, if you don't, don't listen to it. There are plenty of Independent Bluegrassers out there. Secular and sectarian.

----------


## Big Joe

Utah...my kids (4) always went to church and were honor graduates. I don't think that has much to do with either of our kids and thier educational abilities. My daughter carried a 4.0 average through high school, college, and graduate school. I think it has to do more with teaching and encouraging them to read and think that helps them develop the need to learn and excel educationally. Church can be a part of that...or not. Depends, just like everything else, the particular church they go to.

Hippy music cetainly is not dead in Nashville, and the Nashville record community is certainly not a conservative or Christian base. Listen to the songs and you will see they are pretty liberal and far out when it comes to the values many hold quite important. Bluegrass musicians may chose a more conservative song list because that fits their particular beliefs. Many of the artists are conservative and many are christian. That influences the song choice far more than any thing else. Still, there are lots of killing, drinking, cheating songs in Bluegrass. Just look at the old song "Knoxville Girl". Not much conservative or Christian about that song. While it is quite morbid, it is interesting.

Music is the expression of the soul no matter what political or religious veiwpoint we may come from. I don't believe there is any particular slant to the extreme right in music in the last few decades. If anything, it has become as secular as anything else in our world. Just my observations. Oh...my ponytial has long gone away. More from lack of ability to keep one than any political or philosophical expression. Baldness happens  .

----------


## Philip Halcomb

I like the old gospel stuff like Bill's gospel stuff, Red Allen's stuff. Jimmy Martin has great stuff too, not necessarily gospel but great music and lyrics. But the new country/bluegrass hybrid gospel stuff is just a little too cheesy and corny sounding for me. Oh boy, when you get into the Evangelical Christian rock/folk/country, then I really feel like doing myself in. But hey, if someone else gets their kicks off that stuff then fine... I like the jam band stuff too (I'm a long time fan of the Grateful Dead), but I also really like real bluegrass harmony singing and pickin'. The scratchy ol' rural voices singing high up into the stratosphere, really moves my soul that stuff. 

A lot of new gospel stuff is just flat-out missing soul and feeling, it doesn't move me. Unless a good established band is performing it like Del McCoury or something. 

Bill's old stuff on the other hand send shivers down my spine, "Voice on high" and so fourth. If you can ever get a hold of some old live Bill Monroe recordings, you'll probably find the origin of jam band music right there. Some of the old live recordings really show just how far out Bill used to be able to get sometimes. 

The bottom line is that music is a very personal and subjective thing. What pleases one is most likely not going to please another. I don't buy the arguement that there is a very small market for live instrumental music. The last Grateful Dead show I was at had over 100,000 people there. Whenever I go see Grisman the house is pretty much full. He might sing on one tune mind you. Doc Watson packs em' in too. He used to have a 50/50 singing to instrumental ratio. So there's plenty of room for everybody.

----------


## blawson

> if you are on the net, go to pandora.com.


Thanks for that great link, Bob! One that will be playing for me for a while...

----------


## entau

I think the term is Left coast hippy dippy jazz - but 
for simplicity's sake - I am a card carrying died in the wool born and raised- hippie( did not send my kids to church either - not out of high school yet - but both not in any wheres near the trouble I was in as an every Sunday Catholic at catholic school)

but -with all the jam bands and artists , film makers - dancers, farmers, doctors, lawyers, clergy , parents, children, politicians ( wait that might be a parodox) who acknowledeg themselves to be hippies-
hippies are still an extreme minority -
yeah the working class and grass roots folks and artsy types don't mind rubbing elbows - but in the end - main stream white bread Judeo-Christian- red white and blue orthodoxy - is still the majority.
I think it is no more complex than marketing - long instrumental improvised music that focuses on goove and articulation - no matter how beautiful or inspiring - will not sell like a 3 minute tune with catchy phrase and memorable (hummable)chorus.
nor will the larger majority really comprehend, or even try to dig it.
Now I know I will be in trouble with this next statement - but I firmly believe it is true-
the majority of consumers - ( doesn't matter if it is food, music,clothes, ideology) do not know what they want - they want to make a simple choice of what is offered them-
they will choose whatever is on the shelf - and be satisfied with it.
so I think if you dig jam band music - seek it out and surround yourself with it - don't wait for mass media to bring it to you.

----------


## tkdboyd

Existentialism and Mandolin Cafe: doomed to this eternal freedom(choice) or as stated above "they want to make a simple choice of what is offered them" 

The depth of Bluegrass and the Mandolin as an instrument continues to astound!

----------


## lgc

First of all, hippies are not the enimies of the neocons-neocons find hippies amusing and annoyong at best. Second where are you getting this conspiracy stuff? What bands or producers, by name, in bluegrass are pushing a conservative agenda? If BG today sounds conservative to you, how is that different than it was 40 years ago. The reason gospel and traditioal themed BG is popular is because most people in this country subscribe to those belief systems and have for generations. Why not start an internet radio station focusing on jamgrass if it is that important and underrepresented? I've found BG relatively apolitical. It makes observations about people realities-it doesn't create them.
I've also read a lot of neocon stuff and none have ever mentioned BG. I thought this was suposed to be an apolitical forum about music.

----------


## cooper4205

> Bill's old stuff on the other hand send shivers down my spine, "Voice on high" and so fourth. If you can ever get a hold of some old live Bill Monroe recordings, you'll probably find the origin of jam band music right there. Some of the old live recordings really show just how far out Bill used to be able to get sometimes.


Amen. I got into bluegrass after seeing Del at Bonnaroo a few years back, now I'm completely obsessed with first generation bluegrass (and Bill is my favorite). There's something about that old style of bluegrass that gets me like nothing else can.

----------


## Ted Lehmann

Great thread. Bluegrass will die if it continues to be polarized the way much of this discussion indicates. The demographics say that the generation which grew up on the first generation originators is growing older and will too soon die off. New groups like The Infamous Stringdusters and Cadillac Sky are able to honor the traditions while forging new ground. Every day Sam Bush pays his debt to Bill Monroe and stays creative and engaging. I'd prefer XM to play less Osborne brothers, less Bradley Walker, less countrified accoustic music and more LRB, New Grass Revival, Kruger Brothers, and Dry Branch Fire Squad because I want bluegrass music to be more eclectic. Helping the audience become more open to variety in our music can only give it increase vitality. One afternoon of listening to Josh Pinkham or Chris Thile forge new directions for the mandolin helps people learn how versatile and instrument it is. Alan Bibey takes the mandolin to new and exciting places every time he picks it up. - Ted

----------


## Uath

I guess I do sound like a conspiracy nut...however. There is no jam grass on XM. You can say what you want, but the gospel is there, the progressive stuff isn't. What about all those great "picking on" albums. I really like picking on Clapton, and Moody Bluegrass. Why don't they play those. Also, how tightly are the songwriting themes controlled. Would the country music industry permit a overtly Pagan song to make it to the airwaves? (Thor had a hammer..He's about to smash Pat Roberson) No, I don't think so.
The problem is I'm kind of locked into XM. I have all the equipment, and listen to it in my studio constantly. Last week I paid attention for an hour. They played 7 gospel songs. That's over one every ten minutes. The next hour, they played 5. Most of the rest were mostly from the 50's. Oh yes, let's not forget the Nashville clean-cut-boy-songwriters, Bradley Walker, Jerry Salley. They were there. No soul, just clean-cut Grand Ol' Oprey hokey dump.
Big Music has taken over, and they have labeled us as Nascar Dads, low educated, god-fearing, moral motor heads, who can't get past the G run.
I feel like so many of the new BG musicians don't even smoke hooey (and it shows, believe me, it shows).

----------


## cooper4205

I don't think you have to be a true-blue Christian to enjoy the emotion displayed in some of those old Gospel tunes, I know that is what does it for me. 

Cold Jordan

----------


## Philip Halcomb

> I don't think you have to be a true-blue Christian to enjoy the emotion displayed in some of those old Gospel tunes, I know that is what does it for me. #
> 
> Cold Jordan


Definitely not, I don't fit into the god-fearing, hard-core christian category but I do enjoy soulfully done gospel tune. I usually can't find a recording of one I like done in the past 30 years though. 

The Osborne Brothers are great. Bobby Osborne is one of the best improvisational mandolin players on the planet in my opinion. I think the gent who mentioned them above is just listening to the wrong Osborne Brothers recordings. Try to find some live stuff recorded back in the 60s and 70s, I think it will knock your socks off. Furthermore, bands like the Infamous Stringdusters who are great by the way, have mostly gained their influences from or from artists who had been influenced by the Osborne Brothers, Frank Wakefield, Jimmy Martin, Bill Monroe, etc...etc... I truly feel that it pays off to listen to those old records sometimes to gain a sense of what bluegrass really sounds like. Dawg, Sam Bush and others are great for my generation too.

Also, there's a difference in just being a fan and being a musician too. As a musician I want to learn how those ol' cogers got their sound and how to implement it in my own way. They got a ton of sound out of those lil' mandolins. Chris Thile as great as he is, doesn't pull the tone and the power out of the instrument that I associate with hard-core bluegrass. But he has amazing phrasing and incredible technical prowess. So it's all a matter of what moves you. But to discredit one or the other for being better or worse I think is missing the point of it all.

----------


## AlanN

The Kentucky Colonels were good at putting across a gospel tune. He Said If I Be Lifted Up off the old Sierra Brier Lp is a lesson in phrasing, vocals and overall feel, there is even some falsetto in there.

----------


## cooper4205

those Stanley gospel tunes really get me too, I mean if "I've Just Seen the Rock of Ages" or "I am the Man, Thomas" doesn't make the hair on the back of your neck stand up, I don't know what will.

----------


## lgc

I'm just wondering when Toby Keith is gonna get to host the Jammies(jam music awards) or how many of the Phish renion shows Brooks and Dunn are gonna get an offer to cobill with them. I mean it's only fair. I looked at the Bonaroo line up for the pat few years and they didin't have a rightwing Christian Rock group or a huge name Nashville band on the bill at all. It's a left wing conspiracy.

----------


## Yellowmandolin

Could it be that XM and the Bluegrass Junction bases their programing choices off what people request? #I'm not trying to defend the lack of "jamgrass" bands that get play time, just trying to find a reason on their end... #

I certainly do not fall into the Red, God-fearing conservative group, but absolutely LOVE gospel music. #Aside from my personal views, gospel music was a huge part of bluegrass when it was getting started, so why not include it at a 1:5 ratio to secular bluegrass? #And I guess I have to dissagree, Uath, about the industry putting us all in the classic redneck sterotype. #I think there is a great deal of respect in the bluegrass community between artists and fans.


Are you being scarcastic lgc?

----------


## Walter Newton

If you think XM is pushing a political agenda, playing music you don't want to hear, and NOT playing music you DO want to hear, why on earth are you paying them every month to do so - voting with your dollars for more of the same? Paying "The Man" to "Stick It To You" doesn't seem like the hippie thing to do!

----------


## Tighthead

Gospel's not my first choice, but a well-done song can be enjoyable (i.e., Dry Branch). But I do not like the countrified bluegrass music at all. Modern (popular) country music is all about the lowest common denominator, and bluegrass (IMHO) is anything but.

After awhile, I DO get tired of listening to all the gospel bluegrass on XM.

----------


## SternART

I always thought BG came of age & was moved ahead when the folk boom, brought new blood into the fold. 
The original Masters of first generation BG were rediscovered & found a new audience on college campuses. 
College kids, even those New York liberal types started pickin', because BG had a pureness, a heartfelt
rawness, it was the real deal and of course had all that hot pickin. And Bill Monroe was no fool, he ended 
up with guys like Richard Greene, Peter Rowan, and Bill (Brad since there can only be on Bill in my band) 
Keith playing as BG Boys. Just look at a band like Old and In The Way and who was in that band, from Vassar-
a mainstream BG fiddler,to Jerry-the original acid inspired jam band guy, to David, a New Jersey Jew...the 
original hippie BG band crossed the cultural barriers in a new way that brought a huge new audience to BG. 
Sam Bush was a "that ain't no part of nuthin'" guy in Bill's eyes.....and now he & Dawg are like the old Dad's,
of hippie BG.....doesn't matter if you are conservative or liberal, religious or not, even well educated or
grew up in some holler in da woods.....like it or not BG is a melting pot & like anything else, there is both
great and not so great art being made in the genre. Where to hear it on the radio is another question, and I agree
I'd like to hear a more diverse play list from XM, even if it was just a weekly show on the branches of the BG tree.

----------


## Philip Halcomb

Well said SternART, and I guess that just reaffirms my position of not listening to the radio period. There is little on the radio XM, FM, or AM that is going to appeal to my taste. With the exception of NPR talk shows. Anyhow, I think the answer to Uath's problem would be how I solved my problem which was to purchase an iPod and take the money spent on XM radio and purchase music that suited my taste. When I have all my favorites on record in the iPod then I have complete control over what I listen too. To find out about new music I visit the MandolinCafe and other music orientated sites to see what's new.

----------


## Jkf_Alone

What is the deal with saying conservative christians are against jam bands, or even hippie type bands for that matter? thats like saying democrats are aginst bluegrass. both are silly comments. people like what they like and dont like what they dont like. i like rage against the machine,james taylor, black sabbath,ben haper, Phish, dave matthews band, blues traveller, alison krauss,wilco, hank williams, josh turner, jimi hendrix, santana, miles davis, thelonious monk, tori amos, jars of clay , casting crowns, van halen, bon jovi, the lemon heads, matthew sweet, led zepplin, doc watson, bill monroe, ralph stanley, mike compton, ricky skaggs, old string gospel bands, U2 and many other bands as well. its idiotic to say a christian, republican, libertarian doesnt like this or that music. the reason music that i like isnt being played is because it has limited commercial appeal. which to some extant thats why i enjoy it. it is MY music, it is what speaks to ME. ask yourself, if the music you enjoy listening to was in regular rotation on a top 40 station, would you still enjoy it as much? probably not. 

this has happened to me several times, i find a band, they get overplayed, people copy their sound, then i cant listen to them anymore, because there are too many others like them, making me enjoy their music less. when you hear your favorite song in the background while you are buying toilet paper at WAL MART it just doesnt sound the same after that.

the only groups i can think of that i stopped listening to because of their views are green day and the dixie chicks. reason being when they got too political their songwriting went down hill. some people simply arent smart enough to write good solid cultural commentary. stick to pop.

----------


## Tighthead

I like to catch Witchita Rutherford's show on XM. He plays good music.

----------


## Big Joe

I think all music is good and is a gift from God. I am the epitomy of the right wing Christian. Still, I love nearly every genre of music with the possible exceptions of mosts modern country and rap. I love good latin rhythms. I love a good blues song and BB King is one of my favorite musicians. I love Stevie Ray and what his three piece band did. I also like Luciano Pavrotti. What a voice! I love Doug Jernigan on steel guitar. Mr. Jazz as many call him. Wow, can he play. I like most forms of Bluegrass and older country music. I love big band, swing, jazz standards. All of these are gifts given by God in my opinion and help us express the innermost part of our souls. 

I don't think politics or religion has as much to do with musical expression and I don't know too many musicians who are willing to sell out just to get radio play. There have been a few, but they don't last long. One song wonders. If the music is not speaking through them they can't last in that business.

Our personal tastes will vary greatly. I always loved the joke about the Grateful Dead. What did the deadhead say when he woke up and was not buzzed? "Who is that band and howcome they suck so bad?"

While I am not a big Dead fan, that is not my sentiment, but it does make a good joke. Not eveyone loves Johnny Cash, but I certainly did. He is the reason I got into music to begin with. I still love his music, but I've certainly grown beyond it. I am not a great fan of Chris Thile's work, but I certainly do respect his talent and what he can do. Music keeps me going and it really does not matter much what it is. I've found few CD's I can't jam with if I want to. If you want to listen to jam music, put on your favorite CD or go to a jam and let loose. What could be better! I play guitar in our church and our music is as much a jam session as anything else. We players love it and the audience realizes how much we enjoy it and they also enjoy it. That is what music is about to me.

----------


## Uath

Well, Blugrass Junction, might be radio in a satallite kind of way. However, it also has the potential to bring lots of new listeners to Bluegrass. As I mentioned before, they also control Direct TV's music stations. IMHO this kind of obligates them to play a wide variety of BG and try to bring in a wide variety of people. They can stick to mostly tradional if they want, just sweeten the pot once in awhile. I don't hate gospel. There are a lot of gospel songs I like (especially the old standards). However they just don't play the old standards. Some of the songs are so "born again" they would sufficate the pope.
Y'all are right. I ought to cancel my subscription and just listen to my own tunes, but I like not having to worry about it. It just irkes me that they NEVER play anything progressive, never. I think it would solve a lot of problems if they had a progressive hour once a week. I don't think they will.

----------


## Philip Halcomb

This has been a great thread, because it's nice to see folks that have all different kinds of musical tastes respectfully agree and disagree with each other. Rather than get all fired up because someone else's opinion doesn't match their own. 

* Uath Quote: Y'all are right. I ought to cancel my subscription and just listen to my own tunes, but I like not having to worry about it. It just irkes me that they NEVER play anything progressive, never. I think it would solve a lot of problems if they had a progressive hour once a week. I don't think they will.* 

Uath, I think that's a good route to take. I don't know if you own an iPod or know much about them, but you should try it out if your having problems with radio. They're very easy to use and once you get all your favorite music on it I guarantee you'll never look back. Good luck with whatever you do. Take care.

----------


## fiddler59

Carlton Haney used to refer to bands like The Newgrass Revival as "college music".

David Blackmon

----------


## sgarrity

This is why I don't listen to the radio at all, ever, for any reason. There is an agenda behind what is being broadcast and it's usually $$$. And it's for this reason that my cd collection is outta control!!

----------


## Uath

The Grateful Dead had to be seen live to be appreciated. Hearing their music on the radio just never cut it. They always sounded kind ot tinny to me. But live was a different story. Yes, I did inhale, however it went beyond that. The way they improvised and then came right back to a song. The way they fed off of each other and the crowd. I saw them probably a dozen times, or so, and they weren't always "on," but those boys always put on a show. They had a touring schedule that would kill an elephant, and yet they never seemed to burn out. On a bad night they were good. On a good night, they were the best band in the world.
That's what you miss when you only let one voice be heard. It's not always technical skill, it has a lot to do with heart.
That's what a lot of the new bands are missing INHO. Their songs are uninspired. Locked into country's endless "say something cute about love" script. Great music, like all art, should rise above its own mortality. Unfortunately, that's why so many great artists have had substance problems. Sometimes you have to transcend your bubble of perception. XM is doing nothing to broaden any horizon.

----------


## lgc

Uath, should there be a place for people who like traditional BG to be able to listen to that exclusively or should all formats be completely inclusive to all genres of music? What does the Grateful Dead being drug addicts have to do with XM radio?

----------


## SternART

Uath.....I got into BG, by being a Deadhead.....their music was steeped in roots music. 
But it was the improvising you mention that I enjoyed most about their style. They never
played the tune exactly the same from show to show. They let the music grow & the way 
they morphed medleys together, kept my interest for many years.......at least till the 
mandolin caught my ear big time.

----------


## Uath

The Grateful Dead were shamans. They used drugs to transcend thier mortality. They paid a terrible price for that. XM Bluegrass Junction doesn't have much to do with them in that sence. The point I was making is that Bluegrass Junction is family-friendly. It's safe, in the worst sence of the word. They stretch no boundries. They excite no exploration. It seems all they're concerned with are keeping things static. If you don't play your break the exact way Jimmy did, you're not invited.
I love tradition. Hey, I play the banjo and mandolin. I'm on a bluegrass message board. But let's have some new with the old. This music doesn't deserve to be pigeonholed into a Nashville rut.

----------


## rekx

I'll say it again guys...XM's radio programming sucks! It's like they have a book of songs and artists on a hard drive, and the computer just selects songs at random. You want progressive?...heck Sam freaking Bush is a DJ on Sirius this week. Not to mention Sirius has a station of all Grateful Dead, 24x7.

Sorry to get excited about this, but I put up with XM for 2 years and I am Soooo much happier now that I have Sirius.

----------


## GVD

> Uath Quote: Y'all are right. I ought to cancel my subscription and just listen to my own tunes, but I like not having to worry about it.


That's exactly why most modern media outlets keep putting out the music they do. The masses won't expend the effort to change what they're being fed. The only real vote you have is with your pocketbook so use it or lose it. Change to Sirius, buy lot's of CD's or an mp3 player. If you're not willing to do that then you deserve exactly what you're getting.

GVD

----------


## Mandodan12

Utah, I completely agree with you. I have the same problem with merlefest. obviosally, they still have sam bush and douglas and the infamous string dusters and all types of good, progresseive blue/new grass and also some jam bands, but slowly the whole festival is becoming more and more conservative, choosing more country and gospel over good bluegrass like nickel creek/thile-esk style. One sunday morning they had a black bluegrass/rock band with lots of lap steel guitar that was AMAZING it was a great, great band. IT was sunday morning and it was a really loud show, and so many people complained that it was interupting thier expierience at the stage where they were having a musical type church service...i can completely see where they were coming from, but it also showed that gospel church services were more important then cool progressive fresh bluegrass rock.
As to what XM plays on thier bluegrass channel, don't get me started. i think all radio (satalite, FM, ect.) is way too comercial and 99% of all the good rock/bluegrass/newgrass/folk/acoustic instrumentas are NEVER on the radio. 
I reccomend visiting slacker.com, it is similar to pandora but i think it is better. plus, they are coming out with a portable player where it streams the music over the internet to an ipod like device. it is really good personal radio and you can create great personal stations that really are good. everyone who is interested in listing to good music should check it out...slacker.com. thanks for bringing this point up on mandocafe, utah. 
-D

----------


## rekx

All I gotta say is you guys need to get into bootlegs. Legal, lossless, live recordings of your favorite bands.

----------


## Jkf_Alone

uath, 

while the first live music i heard was traditional gospel, bluegrass and country, i have only recently (3 years ago) been exposed to bill monroe, ralph stanley and others. on the other hand, i have been listening to jam type music for years. to me these first generation bluegrassers ARE the innovation. they are whats different and new. because i havent heard them before. when the average person tunes in to a bluegrass station on satillite radio, i imagine they are hearing something RADICALLY DIFFERENT than what they have heard before. i know i did. and thats why i enjoyed it. clean melodies played with passion. simple chord changes. nothing unnessasary added. bluegrass to me appealed to my #minimalist side. if hemingway was a musician he would have played (old style) blugrass.

maybe by only including the more formulaic bands, they are offering something different to people than what they hear on other stations. music started influencing me in the mid 90's. during that period a LOT of jam bands and were around. it got old and tired for me the same way that older style bluegrass may be old and tired for you.

----------


## Brady Smith

Well this idea goes both ways. I've had sirius for two years and am somewhat happy with it. Uath, I have to disagree that some of the music you mentioned in the opening post is bluegrass...it may be some kind of branch off of bluegrass I'll give you that. Just my opinion of it. I listen to sirius Bluegrass channel for 8-10 hrs a day. I seldomly ever have any other channel on. When Sirius Newgrass is being played, it either goes to another channel or I play Cd's. When the gospel show comes on Sundays..it goes off or to another channel. When Sam Bush or David Grisman come on, I have many times looked up to find out what in the world they're playing on my bluegrass channel, thinking my station had been changed or something of that nature. It's not that I find it terribly bad to listen too, the grateful dead would be terribly bad for me to listen too but, I just loose interest in it very quickly and find myself thinking about other things anyhow rather than thinking about the music. My point I suppose is that I'm not going to drop sirius yet because there are other channels to listen too...(although the opry broadcasts aren't there anymore and I did enjoy those) and they haven't overloaded the radio with Grisman yet. They aren't going to make everybody happy all the time. If they started loading up programming with alot of the newgrass/and other grasses, I'd drop them pretty quick and probably end up over at XM.

----------


## Wesley

Hi - My name is Wesley S and I'm a recovering hippie.

Now that I've got that out of the way - what really attracts me to some of the modern bluegrass bands is the lyric content. There's just so many songs I can hear about "the teardrops I've shed for you" and "you made me a fool" and "I wish I'd never left the girl/cabin/parents I left behind in Kentucky/Tennessee/Georgia". After two or three CD's of those kind of lyrics I just want to slap the singer and tell him to grow a pair. 

But you had to go there to get where we are now. There are some choices to be made and some variety to choose from.Yes it's a shame it's not heard on the radio but I doubt the radio stations are in the business of preserving or promoting bluegrass. They want to make money - and there is nothing wrong with that really. And if enough people send them e-mails and phone calls they'll have a 24 hour station that plays jamgrass. They have to be convinced that there money in those jamgrass bands.

----------


## Wesley

One other thought. I'll bet there's some folks out there that think these radio stations are just too dang progressive. And they need to get back to the traditional bluegrass bands.

----------


## Patrick Sylvest

I'll never pay for radio, ever. Schmattelite!

----------


## Kevin Briggs

Dang, yins are postin' the heck out of this one. I can't keep up. Too much to read.

I like the progressive stuff today too. I'm 30, and most of it is being made by people right around my age. I think that's a big factor in what we like. I love Doc Watson, and he's why I love roots music. However, my favorite band right now is Yonder Mountain, and I love that they are contemporaries of mine. It's our music, in a way.

Now, I recently saw the Avett Brothers and was not thrilled. They had some beautiful songs, but some of it seemed a little too theatrical. It was music, but it was something selfish and ego-driven, unabashedly. I saw some good freinds of mine loving it, but they mostly loved things like stopping the song to tune up, in unison, and screaming at deliberate times in the song. They also liked switching instruments, which is something that never did much for me. It's just a matter of likes and dislikes, and they weren't doing it for me. I certainly can see how people stay interested in what they are doing.

----------


## GTison

I'm one of those conservative-Republican-etc. type. But I miss going out to the local festival to the hippie bus and pickin w/ the hippies. I sure had a great time. Just good music and good times. No harm. ... got a good friend in the Dred Clampet band.

----------


## JeffD

Even when a piece of music is expressing opinions with which I differ, I can appreciate how musical it is, and how much talent is being displayed, and even how much heart is involved.

That being said there is a lot of stuff out there that is more political than musical, and I find that all pretty grating. Just because it rhymes doesn't mean its profound.


But what keeps my going is that I play mandolin - I make my own music - I don't need anyone to make music for me.

----------


## mandocrucian

Re: XM. You'll hear some of those newer bands on the other channels such a X-country, and sometimes of XM Cafe and The Loft.

I tend to listen to Deep Tracks the most, except on Saturday morning when I record "Sidran On Record" (good interviews) and "In The Swing Seat w/Wynton Marsalis" (Jazz Appreciation 102) on XM Real Jazz.

Polarization? Are you kidding? All you have to do is mention the Dixie Chicks and watch the posts fly.

----------


## mandofiddle

LOL, been reading the different opinions on the Dixie Chicks, etc, and their "political" viewpoints and whatnot making people either really like them or really not.

I laugh because I've been listening to a lot of Michael Franti and Spearhad lately. Completely not even close to bluegrass, but I've really been enjoying the lyrics. Definitely political, but moreso on a human and humanity level and less on a politician level. Good stuff, but definitely not for everybody. One of my favorite lyrics of his...

"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace."

Very thought provoking stuff, but like I said... definitely not for everybody taste-wise.

-Dave

----------


## Sheryl McDonald

> I've heard that music is being divided politically now. Rock and Rap go to the Democrats, the Left, and the Pagans. Country, Bluegrass, and Gospel, go to the Republicans, the Right, and the Conservative Christians.


So which side are we on if we play rock & roll bluegrass? ('')

----------


## Philip Halcomb

> All I gotta say is you guys need to get into bootlegs. #Legal, lossless, live recordings of your favorite bands.


Amen to that... cheesy pun intended. 

Also, SternArt said above that the Grateful Dead never played a song the same way. That's also why they capitivated my interest as well. It was like a new treat everytime you heard a familiar song. 

Well, I'm not old enough to have experienced Bill Monroe in concert unfortunately, but judging by most of the bootlegs I have and live recordings I own, it doesn't appear that he and the bluegrass boys ever played a song the same way twice either. Same licks in Blue Moon of Kentucky and so on, but Bill always threw in something different, from what I can hear. Some of the more knowledgeable Bill historians can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong too.

Here's a clip from one of my favorite Bill Monroe improv moments. Just listen to his solo. That definitely is not clean-cut straight melody pickin'. Here's the clip, enjoy...

http://www.macayuga.com/download/xcumberland.mp3

----------


## cooper4205

> but Bill always threw in something different, from what I can hear.


good stuff flip, here's Big Mon and the Seldom Scene doing an extended I Know You Rider jam from 1982. 

I Know You Rider

----------


## Dagger Gordon

Dan Crary has some good comments on politics and music (go to his site and look at Dan rant). www.dancrary.com

He doesn't reveal his politics because for him one of the great things about music (and indeed bluegrass music in particular) is that people from quite different viewpoints can happily jam together. Worth reading, and pretty wise.

Re Gospel music. I am not religious at all, but one of my favourite groups is The Blind Boys of Alabama. I just love them. #It's certainly possible to respect a point of view that's not your own.
I could go further, and say that I like some Islamic music. It doesn't make me a Moslem. (Please don't use this last remark as a starting point for any anti Moslem tirades). 
I like Jewish music. I can see that Andy Statman's music is overwhelmingly driven by his faith, and I don't have to share his viewpoint to get something out of his playing. #Some pretty serious improvisation there, incidentally. Would you include him in 'jamgrass'?

----------


## Klaus Wutscher

> Re Gospel music. I am not religious at all, but one of my favourite groups is The Blind Boys of Alabama. I just love them. #It's certainly possible to respect a point of view that's not your own.
> I could go further, and say that I like some Islamic music. It doesn't make me a Moslem. (Please don't use this last remark as a starting point for any anti Moslem tirades). 
> I like Jewish music. I can see that Andy Statman's music is overwhelmingly driven by his faith, and I don't have to share his viewpoint to get something out of his playing. #Some pretty serious improvisation there, incidentally. Would you include him in 'jamgrass'?


A few words of wisdom there...

personally, I can enjoy gospel quite a bit (and I´m not even a christian anymore)as well as many other styles of religious music. However, gospel seem easier to connect with for me as it is closest to my roots (except for maybe European classical religious music). I don´t have any issue with religious music at all. However, I can get easily offended if I get the impression that an artist (political leader, bandmate,...) tries to impose his religious/moral standards on me. What worries me is that I see a trend in bluegrass mainstream to get all bands sound the same, look the same and sing songs that exclusively deliver a conservative, almost neocon message. I pretty much gave up on mainstream bluegrass and, as a result, have been very pleased with what I found off the beaten path.

For the above reasons, "Songs of our fathers" moves me much more than any of the current gospel offerings from any of the mainstream BG bands (except maybe Del).

----------


## Nick Triesch

Far Out!!!!!.................Nick

----------


## Dave Dearnley

You've convinced me to put a "KILL YOUR RADIO" sticker on the ol' Calton, right next to my "KILL YOUR TELEVISION".

----------


## GVD

> *The Grateful Dead were shamans. They used drugs to transcend thier [sic] mortality.*


Thanks for clearing that up. I always thought it was because they liked getting high. # 

GVD

----------


## Bigtuna

What ever happend to XM and Sirus joining forces? I've got XM, but I don't listen to it as much as I should for the cost. My mom has Sirus, and I do agree that it's better. I was really excited to hear that there was a chance the two would be one. But, I never heard anything else after the intial rumor. In XM's defence, they did air Merelefest and the IBMA award show (although it was a little boaring to listen to all the speeches).

As far as hippies playing bluegrass goes (when hippies were hippies not yuppies or yippies) what about**: Old and in the Way (single handly made me want to play bluegrass), David Grisman, and John Hartford, I never hear them on XM. How about you Sirus guys?

----------


## northfolk

Wow, politics and music; what a sad day?

----------


## sgarrity

I believe they've gone together for quite some time.

----------


## Uath

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines.&gt;_

· Topics started for or end up being used to discuss religion, politics or sex are prohibited. Posts or threads deemed inappropriate or unrelated to our subject matter are subject to immediate removal at the discretion of the board owner.

----------


## Chris Biorkman

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines.&gt;_

· Topics started for or end up being used to discuss religion, politics or sex are prohibited. Posts or threads deemed inappropriate or unrelated to our subject matter are subject to immediate removal at the discretion of the board owner.

----------


## lgc

I think Bill Monroe was the one who talked about pulling his music for some kind of ethereal place(a paraphrase). Many of the first generation BG probably agreed with the shaman sentiment if not the launguage. 
I find it kind of amazinging that there are some many people on this forum ready to call Nashville player and many modern BGers soulless. These are, by and large, people who spend, in one year, more time playing music that most people on this forum play in a decade. I just question where people get that right to judge like that. If you can't see the good in someone else's art it is probably mre of a self reflective comment than a true reflection of the work. 
If we want to talk about the spirituality of music then my question is, "What can you say in a 3 minute mandolin solo that can't be said in 12 bars of the same progression. It is the volume of the great religious texts that makes them great but the consice, yet profound knowledge they impart. Monroe could say more in one note than most jam bands say in a fifteen minute song because his one note had a complete purpose.

----------


## Chris Biorkman

Monroe didn't "smoke hooey" so he wasn't truly in touch with his creativity.

----------


## Uath

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines.&gt;_

· Topics started for or end up being used to discuss religion, politics or sex are prohibited. Posts or threads deemed inappropriate or unrelated to our subject matter are subject to immediate removal at the discretion of the board owner.

----------


## mythicfish

"I'm a schoolteacher in the South"

Don't tell me ... English composition?

Curt

----------


## Chris Biorkman

Political agenda? That is so ridiculous. So basically your implication is that bluegrass and gospel music going hand in hand is a new phenomenon? Are you familiar with the history of the music at all?

Also, I fail to make the connection between prayer in schools and Sirius' programming. You said that this discussion is appropriate and relevant. Am I missing something?

----------


## Bradley

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines.&gt;_

· Topics started for or end up being used to discuss religion, politics or sex are prohibited. Posts or threads deemed inappropriate or unrelated to our subject matter are subject to immediate removal at the discretion of the board owner.

----------


## sgarrity

I don't think anyone is suggesting that good 'ol Gospel songs be thrown out. Let's just hear a little more balance in the programming.

----------


## Klaus Wutscher

> The definition of a shaman (according to Carlos Castaneda) is someone who's task is to bridge the chasm between the spirit world and the material world.


Sorry, but calling Jerry or the Dead a) shaman(s) is a disservice to the band and "real" shamans because

1) castaneda is hardly a trustworthy source when it comes to shamanism (or anything else) and

2) I had the good fortune to meet shamans/healers and there is so much more to their art/gift/talent than music. Music is essential, but not the whole story. And, yes, their abilities come with a price, a high one actually, that many of them did not pay voluntarily. The price Jerry chose to pay was a bargain compared to that.


Other than that, I never "got" the dead but I hear what you are describing in other artists music, and it is a very important aspect of music that is largely underrepresented in most genres (and definitely western society in general) these days. Most people confuse this with plain hedonism. Wrong! What could be more boring than that?

As far as my criticism of Nashville BG and Country, I stand by my assesment. If there is something I cannot play, does it make it great music? I cannot play Yngwie malmsteen´s electric guitar version of paganninis music for solo violin
either but it still sucks (to me anyway).

Nothing against perfection. I´m trying hard to become a better player each day. But a song with sappy lyrics and an uninspired melody is still a bad song, no matter the execution. Am I happy that the level of musicianship in bluegrass is at an unpreceeded high? Sure! Do I wish that these talents would be used to more varied, interesting and MUSICAL results? You bet!

Of course, any judgement reveals more about the judge than the subject of his judgement. But I honestly believe that it is impossible to judge music objectively. We simply can´t.

As to soloing, well, sometimes a short, concise solo is best, sometimes it takes time to let a story unfold. Neither is better.But in some circumstances, one works better than the other and some players are better at one thing than the other.

----------


## Uath

Castaneda never admitted that his books were fiction. However, they probably were. Did you know that when he died, two of his female admirers/followers disappeared with him? They found the body of one. They never found any trace or the other...weird.

----------


## Jkf_Alone

> LOL, been reading the different opinions on the Dixie Chicks, etc, and their "political" viewpoints and whatnot making people either really like them or really not.


i dont care about their political views. what i care about is the quality of music. mr. fiddle, if you are responding to my post it would do well for you to READ the whole post.

to be honest i dont really care about ANY artists political views. they are artists. not political scientists, not historians, and most times not even up to date on world conditions. if anyone makes a political descision based on a clever turn of phrase in a song, that is just foolishness. 

ive been to the third world. ive seen suffering there and in my own backyard as well. when you see a 4 year old and an 80 year old with one hand (because he lost it when reaching into a car window for a donation, lights changed, bang no more hand) begging for 1/10th of a cent, you wonder why we are writing songs about legalizing pot or some govt officials lies. 

if you want to write about politics, write songs aboout loving others. write songs about treating your neighbor as yourself. write about something important and eternal, that is the politics i want to hear. if we want to change whats happening in the world, we have to start by changing ourselves.

it's easier to be against everything than FOR anything. when you are for something, people have a handhold to pull you down. when you are against something, it's like coating your logic with oil.

----------


## Scott Tichenor

Take the politics and religion elsewhere folks. The comments removed above are clearly out of bounds and in violation of the board posting guidelines.

----------


## Jkf_Alone

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines.&gt;_

----------

