# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  DIY Mandolin Kits: Worth it? Best one?

## Phil1580

Hello all.....I have decided that perhaps I would like to be a hobbyist luthier of sorts upon retirement. Retirement does not come for me for about 22 years or so, but starting early!

Are the build-it-yourself kits worth it, especially for someone with no experience in woodworking/instrument building? If so, what are the good ones? "Kit" was too short to search the forum.  :Smile:  I guess I'm wondering if this would be over my head, and (provided I did everything right) would I finish with a worthwhile mandolin....

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## Hokurai

I've read some around here that the kits are a good way to get your feet wet and the saga kits were recommended.

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## Bill Snyder

The two best kits (in terms of quality) are probably the StewMac kits and the Siminoff kits. The kits sold by International Violin are probably the best for the price paid. There is an f-style kit on page 2 of the Int. Violin link I included.
In the hands of a good builder any of them have the potential to produce a very good instrument. In the hands of someone with no experience but lots of patience and a quality first attitude you can still come out with a very decent instrument.
The kits I linked to are all carved top and back mandolins made from solid spruce tops and solid maple necks, backs and sides.

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## Barry Wilson

let's not forget Don Kawalek's kits. I love my OM and he's putting together a mandocello kit for me now

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johnn0hj

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## narrick

i'm thinking about buying one of the international violin kits... the km7 is the cheapest and the only one that has no f holes cut, so i think i will decide on that because i want an oval hole

all the hard work is already done, so i think it won't be too hard to build a decent instrument.

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## bmac

I have built a couple of Saga kits sold by International Violin and would highly recommend doing one. It is partially completed so you can probably complete it with few problems but the main thing is that you will gain an understanding of the basic working of a carved mandolin. If you are serious though, it is recommended that you get Seminoffs book on building a bluegrass mandolin. It answers just about every question you can ask about a build, whether kit or from scratch..... With the book you can either build the next one from scratch or Seminoff sells a materials package  with all the wood components I believe. So you can, if you want move gradually into mandolin building,

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## Phil1580

Is the A kit sold by International Violin the same as the Saga AM-10, just with the book? Leaning toward the AM-10, seems like the cheapest way to get my feet wet while still yielding a solid mandolin....seen some beauties made by other Cafe members.

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## belbein

Let me say first that according to International Violin, Saga and IV are separate and distinct entities.  I got the sense that IV wanted nothing to do with Saga.  But they were very definite:  "NO, WE DO NOT BUILD THE SAGA KITS."  They were quite incensed that I would think that IV and S had anything to do with one another.  Well excuse the hell out of me.  Anyway, moving on: 

I'm in the middle of a Saga AM-10 build.  I recommend it as a beginning step.  I've never built another mandolin kit, so I don't have a lot of room for comparison other than what I've learned here.  Here's my take on what I've learned so far.  

The main thing is that the Saga kits are cheap cheap cheap.  That's both in price and in quality of the materials.  That's good news and bad news:  cheap is good in case you f*** it up.  The bad news is that the wood--at least in my case--sucks.  It's ugly.  Mine had a big old flaw--bigger than a silver dollar--right smack in the middle of the back and an ugly whitish stripe right down the middle of the soundboard (top).  (The former became an excuse to learn inlay; the latter will be a finishing challenge.)  

Nevertheless, ugly or not, the Saga is partially assembled--the top and sides are joined, so no messy bending--and that takes some of the complexity away.  It lets you concentrate on understanding how the thing gets put together.  It will also give you a finishing challenge.  I'm learning lessons every day, as you can see from my multiple cries for help here.  To move on in my building, I need to understand basic construction, as well as gluing techniques and finishing.  This is different than anything I've ever built.  I'm learning every day, and I'm glad I'm learning on a $100 mandolin rather than a $600.  

After the Saga, I will move up to either an International Violin or Kawalek kit.  If I ever finish this thing.  I'm confident that the Saga will give me plenty of skills to make the next, more expensive kit easier.  Just in one lesson alone--preparing hide glue and avoiding old Titebond I--this thing is worth its weight in aggravation, I mean gold.  

One other thing about Saga.  They don't always come with instructions.  And Saga will not respond to your request for instructions.  While the other books and instructions are useful and interesting, they don't give you a step-by-step guide.  This wasn't a problem for me (um, not much, anyway) because I'm pretty confident in my ability to mis-construct anything from Legos to boats.  It also gave me a chance to puzzle out some things that will be useful later, and that I wouldn't have had to learn if I'd had instructions.  (If the instructions tell you to put Tab A into Slot B, it doesn't force you to learn anything about why Tab A and Slot B exist in the first place.)  

Finally, the last great thing about the Saga: so many people have built them that there is advice and even step-by-step instructions on how to do it.  Feel free to ask questions here, and you can always contact me directly.  (Well, finally finally: I'd buy direct from Saga, not from Amazon or whatever.)

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## Jim Garber

> One other thing about Saga.  They don't always come with instructions.  And Saga will not respond to your request for instructions.  <snip>  
> 
> Well, finally finally: I'd buy direct from Saga, not from Amazon or whatever.


Why would it matter if you buy directly from Saga or not since they have no customer service?

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## Bill Snyder

Yep, the Saga kit (I got mine from Int. Violin over 7 years ago and it is most definitely a Saga kit) have some ugly wood like this in their kits.

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## bigskygirl

I recently finished a Saga kit and had fun while learning alot.  I am currently working on a Saga Les Paul style kit and have a Telecaster style in the queue as well.  They seem to be the most basic of kits, as Belbein mentioned the top and sides are already joined so that took alot of work out of the mix.  I think for a first time builder that is a good thing.

I am still looking for my instructions - I didn't toss them so I will come across them eventually and will post them when I find them.  I built mine without the book mentioned and just a few basic tools.  A coping saw is handy for shaping the headstock but you could do it with a hacksaw and some patience.

The wood grain on mine was good - the only thing was it had a dark line running down the middle of the soundboard and the stain soaked up a bit more there but I'm probably the only one who would notice that.  I got mine from Amazon and it didn't have instructions.  If that happened again I would send it back and get another.  I can't remember if Amazon or Saga sent me the instructions as I emailed them both about it and a few days later had the instructions.

The nice thing about the Saga is if you mess it up you are only out $100.  At one point as we were clamping the back there was a very LOUD 'crack' when we clamped a bit too hard on the top of the back piece and it split slightly at the seam - no sweat a little glue took care of that.

All in all I think the Saga is ideal for a first build.  It looks good - has a few shall we say....."shop worn" features I inadvertently added during the build, and sounds nice.  I still need to adjust the nut as it's a bit high but I play with it and have fun learning about the mandolin.  My guitar teacher thought it was a decent build - although he's a nice guy and very supportive (great instructor) and has taught me a few songs on it.  I'm certain I will do more in the future.

Here's my build thread:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...aga-build-saga

Oh yeah - a search of this site using "saga kit" will yield some of the other threads.  Also there is a blog of a build at:

http://www.alingham.com/blog/2011/10...ld-a-mandolin/

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## belbein

Wow!  That SURE don't look like what I got.  Beautiful.  Maybe I ended up buying a factory second without knowing it?

If that's everyone else's experience then I owe Saga an apology for my comments about their quality ... but they still didn't answer my customer service inquiries, for which they get many demerits. 

The reason I'd buy directly from Saga is that I think you're more likely to get a complete kit.  You might even get instructions, if you're lucky.  And if what Bill Snyder got is standard, then you get better quality than what I got, too.

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## bigskygirl

> Yep, the Saga kit (I got mine from Int. Violin over 7 years ago and it is most definitely a Saga kit) have some ugly wood like this in their kits.


Wow, that is some nice flame.  Mine had quite a bit and I think I may have sanded some of it off but when held a certain way it looks pretty darn flamey (tho' not near as nice as yours).  I think the kits are a bit of a crap shoot - the Telecaster kit I got has a few dark spots on the front but the Les Paul kit had a very nice flame top on it that I should have just clear coated but no....had to paint it white....arghhhhhh!!!!

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## kkmm

I share the same goal as the OP, although I am much closer to retirement.
I also start with a kit, but a very very easy kit (SFM-1 kit, costing me 125$, everything included except paint/varnish) and end up with an F-style mandolin that plays very well for me. It appears to me that this kit is selling quite well (from the same vendor, on eBay). The vendor got 10, selling them out, then get another 10, selling them, etc.... the last few of every batch seem to cost more (150$ to 1754 !!!)
This kit has laminated top, but it does sound loud and good.

Now that I have gone thru it, I do recommend the AM-10 kit as the starting point because the one above is way too easy (one simple glue job, apply finish, install hardware, and go thru the setup).

Just one month after this mandolin kit, I built a tenor ukulele from nearly scratch (sides were bent, fretboard was slotted and that's it), I have to measure, cut and do everything else. It's really worth the experience. Although ukulele is not the same as mandolin, they both share many common building techniques (and some are quite different, got to learn more). Although I was very careful and have known every details of every single building step, I still made about 3 mistakes on this build (just cosmetic, all reversible, lucky me).

Many have said it will take about 3 to 5 builds to really have a good grasp at instrument building and produce a decent one. Maybe more or less depending on individuals. I also found it depends on the tools that we have. Better tools (and the skills to use them) product better results.

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## bmac

I think the ugly wood mentioned in the Saga kit (sold ny International Violin) is in part the reason why they can sell them so cheaply. I was lucky. One of mine had no visual flaws that I sould see, and the other had a small black spot on the front which is really barely visible, unless you look for it. Some of the components, like tuners, tailpiece, etc, might be cheap but mine work just fine. and if I want to hot rod it I will do so and use the Saga supplied tuners on another instrument. Regarding service after purchase... There are some threads on this site stating that after purchase service from International Violin on the Saga kits they sell was excellent.

If I wanted to build another kit I would not hesitate to build an International Violin purchased Saga kit.

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## belbein

So, BMAC raises the question that's been on my mind, now that I might actually be making progress again.  What's my next step?  I'd like to move up one step in difficulty, without going whole hog.  What do you folks with experience in multiple kits suggest?

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## Dobe

[QUOTE=bigskygirl;1051797]Wow, that is some nice flame.  Mine had quite a bit and I think I may have sanded some of it off ...

That's pretty hard to do !

Yeah Bill ,take that pic down, we want to see some purty wood   :Wink:

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## bigskygirl

[QUOTE=Dobe;1051952]


> Wow, that is some nice flame.  Mine had quite a bit and I think I may have sanded some of it off ...
> 
> That's pretty hard to do !
> 
> Yeah Bill ,take that pic down, we want to see some purty wood


Yeah, I guess that's not actually the case that I sanded it off but you have to hold the mando certain ways to actually see the flame.  Maybe it was my staining method......that didn't allow it to come thru.

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## Chris Baird

Planning to provide kits as well. Check my website below.

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## bmac

"The reason I'd buy directly from Saga is that I think you're more likely to get a complete kit." 

International Violin has supported the kit for at least one dissatisfied customer and replaced what the customer thought (mistakenly) that a part was cut wrong. In fact it was cut right but the builder did not quite understand the instructions or the instructins were not quite clear on that point. In fact I believe that International Violin has a few kits which they use for replacement parts if a buyer finds a defective part, or a part is missing, They apparently support their mandolin kits very well, from what I've learned on this site.

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## belbein

I wasn't saying that I'd buy from Saga as opposed to IV--I was saying that I'd buy from Saga as opposed to (as I did) from e-bay or amazon or something similar.  IV was very helpful when I was looking for directions.

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## kkmm

> Planning to provide kits as well. Check my website below


I go to your website but the price is not listed.
How much your F5-kit cost ?

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## Chris Baird

kkmm, 

Prices aren't set yet, but, please use the "enquiry" form on my website to contact me and I'll give you more info.

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## fatt-dad

I got a great "beach" mandolin out of my IV kit. Ken's a good guy running a business and I was happy with my purchase.  My kit had a back that was just a touch too narrow (i.e., not wide enough) and Ken was there to send me another back.  Not problems.

I love my IV kit and know nothing about Saga (well other than their legacy in making a wide variety of Asian imports) - I just don't know about their kits.

If I were to build another kit, I'd seriously consider the Stew-mac kit.  I bet that mandolin kit has some horsepower.

f-d

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## Steve Roberts

For my first mando family instrument I built one of Siminoff's mandola kits.  Took 14 months and damned near killed me, but the final instrument sounds great.  I made every mistake in the book, but am very happy with the end result.  

I am now working on an A5 from Siminoff.  I have been very pleased with both kits.  Fine wood, everything as advertised.  Roger is not cheap, but as long as you are going to be spending all that time making the kit I think you should have a fine instrument when you are done.

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William Smith

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## belbein

Stever: I was thinking about one of those Siminoff mandola kits to follow up my Saga AM-10 (if I ever finish).  Do you think it would have been easier if you'd built something else first, or is it just a difficult build?

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## Steve Roberts

> Stever: I was thinking about one of those Siminoff mandola kits to follow up my Saga AM-10 (if I ever finish).  Do you think it would have been easier if you'd built something else first, or is it just a difficult build?



I don't think that it's a difficult build, but cutting the binding channels took me forever, as did trying to tap tune the tone bars.  And I spent a lot of time cutting and engraving the inlays which of course was my own damned fault.  I say go for it!

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## macjansson

Anyone have any experience of the IV f-mandolin kit? I'm working my way up to a Siminoff kit slowly.

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