# Song and Tune Projects > Song and Tune Projects >  Red-haired boy

## Bluegrasstjej

So, Red-haired boy won the poll for July. This time I've decided to try to learn a more complicated version (or possibly a fast version), since I've played this tune a whole lot. Y'all know how my patience is when my picking doesn't come out right..so wish me luck and give me a kick in the *** if I complain!

There are loads of nice and easy versions out there. One is on the MP main page (but taken from co-mando), it's very close to the Bert Casey version I've played.

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## Bluegrasstjej

It's an old Irish tune and there are lyrics to it, "The little beggarman" or something like that, it would be cool to use that somehow.

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## MartinD_GibsonA

The melody for "Red Haired Boy" does, in fact, come from an old Irish tune called "The Little Beggarman", although a friend of mine who grew up near Dublin insists that it's actually called "The Jolly Beggarman". #"The (fill in the blank) Beggarman" is different from "Red Haired Boy" not only in its title, but also in the fact that it has lyrics and is usually played in D, unlike "Red Haired Boy" which is solely an instrumental and is usually played in A. #If you want to hear it, look for an old Ian and Sylvia recording; that was my first -- and still only -- exposure to it.

Don Smith

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## Bluegrasstjej

The jolly beggarman is actually a completely different song. Nice, but not the same one as The little beggarman.
I'd say The little beggarman and Redhaired boy are the same. If you play Redhaired boy to an Irishman he will tell you "that's The little beggarman". At least that happened to me when I was in Ireland..
Btw isn't it the player who decides in what key to play a certain tune? I play Spancil Hill in Gm (it suits my voice best), but even if it's in Bm in the book, it's still Spancil Hill. Of course, it's different with instrumental tunes in which you don't need to adjust to how you can sing it.

Enough of that, back to Redhaired boy. It'll be fun to start working with it. I've always just played the version I'm used to, because I know it well, but it'll be fun to play a different version.

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## Michael H Geimer

With all this haggling on about jolly, little beggar-headed men, it's easy to forget just how few of these old, traditional fiddle tunes actually travelled as far as the carribean isles, there to be infused with the culture and flavors of tropical Jamaica.

The version I posted is not one of them.

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## cam

Great version Benignus, that brought a smile to my face . Now tell the truth, do you actually have dreadlocks or not?

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## Michael H Geimer

"Now tell the truth ..."

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## cam

lol (Hey what happened to your nose man?)

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## Michael H Geimer

Man oh' man, I don't know what I was thinking yesterday. 

Today the grass is much Bluer, and the Little Beggarman's head is much more red.

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## Mark Normand

Yep, this should be a bit easier on me, since I already know a simple version, will have to clean it up and garnish a bit before I post it.
Since I just bought an alarm w/CD, I'll now wake up to RHB every morning, much to my wife's dismay!

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## Dan Adams

Nice, creative version on the mandolin Benignus. #I would like to be more versatile with the rhythm and timing of basic fiddle tunes. #I've also listened to your guitar version and have always liked the tune on the guitar. #I learned RHB on the guitar long before learning it on the mandolin. My version (farmerf5)is the straight up, bluegrass jam version. #Like every tune I know, nothing fancy. #I actually recorded this version when I first saw the tune show up on the prospective tune list and forgot about it until the new 'Tune of the Month,' nomination was posted. #Dan

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## Michael H Geimer

Plinker8,
RHB was one of the first songs I learned on mandolin. Up until this month, I had always played RHB almost note for note the way you do. Sure, I had joked about jamming it as reggae, but hadn't actually tried until it came up as this month's tune. I figured since I've been playing ti for long time, that I'd rework it to a minor (Aeolian) key and call it, The Little Rastafarian. It's weird how you can still hear the source melody in there, even bent so far out of shape.

That's also when I discovered files from a previous attempt at recording RHB. I didn't use any tracks from that old session, but having all the guides and folders in place was a good enough reason to try RHB again. I think exercising my creative juices on The Little Rastafarian must have put me in good shape, because this cool 'Grassy mandolin thing just sort of spat itself out all at once. It only took a couple more (dozen) repititions to make sure I really had it, then ... roll.

I sure didn't plan on making two recordings. Hope nobody thinks I'm being a pig ... going back for seconds and all. 

 - Benig

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## Martin Jonas

Compared with Benignus' two innovative versions, I've been very boring -- this is just a simple version of the tune, played straight. One possible point of interest might be that I played it on an old Neapolitan bowlback, not on the Washburn F-style like my previous recordings. As a result, not a very bluegrassy mood, but maybe a bit more of the Irish roots of the tune.

Martin

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## mandoanon

I checked out all the versions posted so far. Martin, I like the sound of that on the bowlback. The song sounds good with the Irish roots brought out; not boring at all!

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## ira

hey benig- oink, oink! 
just joshing. i really liked both versions, but as a fan of newgassy more than trad. bg stuff, i really loved your rasta version (had that funky ole bluesy feelin that made you want to move). ya got style!

i really love this project thing in general, i broke out rhb tab i had and never learned, and am gonna give it a try myself. not much of a picker, but everyone here seems welcoming. thanks for the inspiration.

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## Dave Hicks

Now that I've posted my version to Yahoo, I checked out the previous ones - what wide ranging interpretations!

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## craig

dave,

very nice groove to your version of RHB! i only need a glass of bushmills to go along with that one and the moment would be perfect. thanks!

craig

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## carolynbeth

Speaking of wide-ranging interpretations.....  That's the first "jazz version" I've heard of this tune; nice!

It's great that everyone is taking such a unique approach to this tune -- a little bluegrass, a little rasta, a little Celtic...all good stuff!

Carolyn

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## cam

Just checked your second version of RHB there Benignus. Very cool - have you got a record deal yet?

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## kvk

Hey, can I ask a stupid question? Where are the MP3s? I found them a month or two ago. I didn't find them on http://www.mandolinproject.150m.com/ or on the yahoo group site.

-Ken

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## Martin Jonas

Scroll down on the MP site to where it says "MP3 recordings" and click on the song titles there. This leads you to a separate page for each tune (and a further page for the Miscellaneous Musings), listing each MP3.

Martin

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## kvk

Hi I like that jazz version. Planteco, any chance you could write out the chord substitutions for us?

-Ken

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## Dave Hicks

Chord subs:

A part
&#124; A7 A13 &#124; Eb9 D9 &#124; A7 A13 &#124; Ab13 G13 &#124;
&#124; A7 A13 &#124; Eb9 D9 &#124; A7 Bm7 &#124; E7 A &#124;
B part
&#124; G13 &#124; D13 &#124; A7 A13 &#124; Ab13 G13 &#124;
&#124; A7 A13 &#124; Eb9 D9 &#124; A7 #Bm7 &#124; E7 A7 &#124;

At least, I think that's what I used. #Rhythm mando uses 7ths instead of 9ths, 6ths in place of 13ths.

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## Tim Saxton

I just up loaded my version with mandolin only. I was a little nervous since I have only played for a little over 2 years.

I made a rythym track but cant figure out how to merge them in time.

Thanks
Tim Saxton

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## Bluegrasstjej

That jazz version is just great!!!!
And I love your improvised thing, Benignus, not much my style but it was cool. (when it comes to bluegrass and folk music I'm extremely conservative)

Tim, the only thing you have to do with Audacity is to have patience..if you have the newest version there is some fancy thing you can do to move tracks forward and back just by clicking and dragging, you'll have six little buttons on the upper left just below the menu, and if you click on the one on last one on the lower line, you can then move the track..I've tried it but I'm not very satisfied with it, I have to say. 
What I do is to first record a melody track (or if it's a song, I sing it with some basic back-up). Then I listen to that one in head phones and record a second melody track. Next step, I mute the second melody track and record a back-up track, that suits with the first melody track. Since both new tracks are recorded to suit the first one, they usually synchronize.
It's takes time but it's the only way I can do it....
I talked to a guy in a music shop yesterday and he said it's probably the soundcard that isn't good, so maybe that's the case for you too.
It's quite annoying since I can't afford a new soundcard, I'm paying my new bike and I want to save for my trip to Ireland too. So maybe much later, and until then I'll just have to do this hard work just to do a decent recording.
There is a better software named N-track studio, but it seems to require a good deal of memory on the computer, when I tried to save files as wav, the computer sort of just died and I got an error message saying I was out of memory. Very annoying since I was so satisfied with that software!!

By the way, Tim, I like your picking. I love those basic versions played well. The versions posted so far are really nice.

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## mandoanon

That jazz version is really nice, Planetcology - it really swings. So many different versions that sound nice.

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## Michael H Geimer

capnastrokate, I really like the note choices going on in your versions. It has an'old' sound to the meldoy.

Plantecology ... LOL! Brilliant!

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## Dave Hicks

Capnastrokate - Nice modal version of the melody.

Benignus - I enjoyed both versions. There really is a connection between Ireland and the Caribbean, by the way: http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/pages.../story0058.htm

Tim (farmerf5?) - Your lead part sounds great, but the rhythm part seems to drift in tempo. Maybe recording to a metronome would keep things together?

Martin - Good old-country version. The bowlback gives a really different tone from the other posts, really fits your interpretation well.

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## cam

So my shot at RHB is posted - hope you like it.

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## Michael H Geimer

Camaroonski ... buddy,
Wow! I am such a fan of your note choices, rhythyms, articulation, tone, recording prowess ... you name it. Way to go!

Folks, I'm off to NYC for a week. My first time there, so I'll likely have too much to do than check up on the Cafe. Read you and hear you all when I get back. 

 - Benig

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## CapnScarlett

Wow, there are some amazing recordings up there. Good job everyone! I might even post another one with more to it; I've been inspired.

Kate

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## craig

great job everyone! this is great stuff! so far, this is one of the best tunes we've (you've) done. there is great variation here!

benignus, once again you've done some amazing things with this song. i especially like your traditional version. you've captured that mandolin tone that i love. just perfect!

timsax, very clean playing pal! nice subtle control of volume and good syncopation. couldn't ask for much more.

cam, it's unbelievable how you have just taken to the mando in such a short time. cool selection of triplets throughout your version. and, of course, love the guitar back-up you have added, too. thanks for your contributinos to this project so far.

keep em comin' y'all! harwilli? harrmob? where you guys?

my mando is 333 miles away. will get back to pickin' and recording soon. in the meantime, i'll try to stay on top of the new posts and enjoy the new tunes.

thanks!

craig

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## tuddenham

hi i think i need a bit of jelp i´m very new to the mandolin and this site .you´r all talking about tracks redhaired boy etc.how can i get to listen to these? and i downloaded some arpeggio exercises by tom obrian bit they are a bit hard and i´m very unsure of the fingering as it´s not written. any help would be a big help for me thanks.Tony

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## CapnScarlett

Tony,
There are two sites. #The site that you upload to (if you upload) is http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/mandolinproject. #The site where you can hear other members' recordings is http://www.mandolinproject.150m.com.

Welcome to the board!

Kate

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## cam

Thanks a lot for the encouraging comments guys - I really appreciate it. This place is my only outlet at the moment for the playing, learning and sharing of this kind of stuff, seeing as I don't seem to be able to find any players to jam with in my local, or even wider area (I live in Germany).

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## mandoanon

Cam, I just listened to the RHB verison you posted. That is so nice to listen too. You have such a great style and good sound that comes out in all your playing. I really enjoy your stuff.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Great job, Cam! A wonderful and impressing sound quality too as you always have on your recordings.

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## cam

thanks again. I'm lucky to have the help of some decent recording gear - an older Roland VS880 digital workstation and a couple of reasonable mics. (Tip: recording mando and guitar in stereo really helps fatten out the sound) There are other cheap or even free (demo) home studio software packages that do a very good job too. I have a prog called Magix Audio Studio which is really inexpensive and is easy to operate. I think ProTools even do a free downloadable version but I don't know how easy it is to use.

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## Bluegrasstjej

There is hope for my recordings, maybe. An old friend I met at the bluegrass festival yesterday is going to give me the programs he uses, don't remember the names of them. I hope that can add something good to my recordings.
I took a look at ProTools, but it doesn't run on Windows XP. That's just too stupid. XP is one of the most used systems these days, how can they not make it run on XP!!!!!

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## CapnScarlett

So I recorded "The Kesh Jig" and uploaded it. It's not showing up under files, and it's not showing up on the project site. Should I upload it again?

Kate

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## craig

kate,

hey! your "Kesh Jig" is under "Miscellaneous Musings". i didn't get a chance to listen to it, yet. however, i presumed it wasn't a recording of RHB or any of the other monthly tunes, so i put it there. let me know if you have any trouble with the link.

craig

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## CapnScarlett

Thanks Craig, it wasn't showing up there either so I was like "Oh no!!"

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## craig

kate,

i just checked. your recording is under Miscellaneous Musings on the MP site (not Yahoo!Groups), and the link works. nice tune!

craig

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## CapnScarlett

It's working for me now. Thanks a lot!

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## CapnScarlett

One question. How do you get both your Mandolin Cafe name and your Yahoo! ID onto the Mandolin Project site with your file? #I've tried a few different things and it only shows up as capnastrokate. #I guess it's not [/I]really[I] necessary at this point, but it's kind of annoying.

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## craig

kate,

i usually put those in. i've just been a bit lazy about that. soon you'll be able to do all that yourself. in the process of revamping things on the MP site. eventually we won't need Yahoo!Groups anymore. until then, i'll try to keep up with putting the stuff in manually.

again, thanks for participating. i see you just uploaded a new RHB version. i'll get that moved over to the MP site, too.

cheers,

craig

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## CapnScarlett

Oh, ok. I thought I was missing something! 

Thanks,
Kate

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## SiFi

OK, I've put my version up. Totally unremarkable melody or speed wise I'm afraid, although the guitar backing is my first stab at using an alternate tuning (in this case DADGAD).

I had a couple of nasty "pops" appear in the recording which I have done my best to remove, so if the mando drops out for a split second that's what it is.

After listening to some of the other recordings, I have got to try to get better sound from my mando...

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## SiFi

Some *fantastic* work happening out there folks! I've loved all the versions so far. 

Dgsignal, great version; love the rhythm work, and a great intro.

Cam, sensational.

Benignus, great as ever.

Timsax, beautiful version; lovely clean picking and some great ornamentation.

Dave, I have but one thing to say about your version: coooooooooooooooooooooool.

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## Tim Saxton

> Timsax, beautiful version; lovely clean picking and some great ornamentation.


Why Thank You!  

Tim Saxton

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## dgillespie

> Dgsignal, great version; love the rhythm work, and a great intro.


Thanks for the kind words.

Camaroonski, #I really like how crisp and clear your recording is. #What kind of setup do you use?

Dustin (dgsignal)

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## cam

Check page 2 of this thread dgillespie

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## Dave Hicks

Hey, nice batch of new recordings! Cam, I particularly liked how your version veered from side to side of the Atlantic.

D.H.

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## levin4now

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion. I have been gone two of the last three weeks with not much time to spare in teh middle week either. I am just downloading some RHBoy versions and they are greaet. The jazz version sounds awesome (and I"m not a fan of jazz!).

I haven't really picked the mando over the last two weeks, but made a quick recording of Fisher's and will post it soon.

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## Mark Normand

Well, been out of town for a bunch of July, but hacked away till I got something going tonight. Just a simple version, after much pick swapping and testing. 

Boy that's some great versions posted.
Those like me that record it straight up with no backup, I wish you would post. I would love to hear more like that. I'm determined not to edit anything except trim the start and end. I hope other lurkers aren't misled into believing editing is necessary or expected, because its not. I feel this group is a great resource, beginners unite!

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## carolynbeth

no fear, mnormand, I'll be posting my Authentic Beginner No Frills version with extra clams soon....  #

I don't edit my versions either -- mainly because I don't know how.....I just keep erasing and starting over. Very time-consuming, but I guess it counts as extra practice.... 
 
Couldn't find your recording on the site BTW....tho'I'm sure Craig will have it up soon. Really like this last bunch of recordings -- great stuff.

Carolyn

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## Bluegrasstjej

Don't worry, Normand, the beginner recordings always drop in one after another at the end of the month. I don't really like that all the advanced post the first week of the month - it doesn't really feel like a learning project then. (they're great to listen to, though) Anyway, the beginner versions will be there. I'm not a beginner on RHB but when I do recordings it doesn't matter how long I've played a tune, it will sound like a beginner version anyway because I always screw things up when I record.

Also, I've tried a recording software called N-Track Studio that takes a bit too much memory so I can't save the files, which means I can't use it to this project. The thing with it is that it synchs much much better than Audacity, it synchs perfectly, and after having tried that I'm not very fond of the idea of starting over with Audacity again and all these complex rounds just to make the timing right. I'm going to do simple recordings with no back-up until I get either another sound card or another recording software (a friend is going to give me two that I can try).
So, conclusion, my recordings will also be without back-up and fancy stuff, the only thing is that I may cut and paste to edit mistakes.

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## CapnScarlett

Mnormand- my first version is just the mandolin...it's pretty basic!

Kate

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## Bluegrasstjej

Maybe I shouldn't have said that..or maybe I should have..because I did a recording and it's the first time ever that I don't do a dozen mistake on the first take. I could also play it a bit faster than usual. I don't think I'll be able to do it better, I'm actually quite satisfied with it, for the first time on this project.
And it's just the 15th of July, so....sorry to all who read what I said about those who post early. I'm a sinner too.

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## chirorehab

Well, after slacking for the last two months (I only learned the A parts to the last 2 songs!), I finally posted a song! 

This is my first recording with my Tonegard and Sam Bush strings.

Eric

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## craig

c3hammer,

very nice use of doublestops!! really enjoy listening to your version of RHB. i'll have to work on that. it brings a whole new dimension to the song.

thanks!

craig

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## carolynbeth

Great job Susanne! I like your version a lot, very clean, good speed and nice, sweet tone. Really, really nice. A cool version from c3hammer too, very original... Chiro, do you always play so fast?  

Still working on mine....

Carolyn

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## chirorehab

Carolyn,

Too fast... Hmm... I usually play with some pretty experienced pickers, so I am usually trying to catch up to them... I guess I learned it a little faster? Does it sound bad?

Eric

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## carolynbeth

Not at all, chiro....actually, I meant that comment for mnormand, who did a pretty speedy version for a "beginner"...  I just got my names mixed up, after listening to several in a row -- sorry!

I thought yours sounded great -- nice chopping too. That's one thing I can't seem to get the hang of....

Carolyn

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## chirorehab

Carolyn,

Okay! Because I was thinking that I was actually playing it slower than normal!

As for chopping... thanks!......I don't really have any advice, though...I just kind of figured it out... The hardest part for me, at first, was making the chord. But chopping really helps me out at jams...As long as you can keep the count, you can pretty much play any song!

Eric

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## Mark Normand

Thx CarolynBeth. I actually played RHB many times slow trying to get a good cut, had trouble, and cranked it for for fun, and made one pass ok. Good luck with yours!

Suzi and Chiro, those are nice versions, just flows along pretty.

That other thread about "basic melody" was great. Made me finally do that simple Joe Clark version. This is great, I now know about 4-5 simple tunes within a month strictly because of this forum. I probably would still be plinking along othewise, mostly goofing off.

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## c3hammer

This was one of the very first songs that I learned and actually liked from the Burt Casey Mando Primer. That was a couple of years ago. I've never really learned any other version, but just started letting my pick hit the adjacent strings.

It's not really double stops, but sympathetics or what ever you call being sloppy. I do the same basic thing on Soldiers Joy and Old Joe Clark. For some reason they are really easy versions to play at speed in a jam like that.

The extra little ringing seems to work pretty well for playing by yourself too.

Thanks for putting this thing together Craig. It's a pretty fun thing to work on recording a good cut in only one try. I find it fairly difficult to do. I think it took me three tries to get that one. How many cuts does it take everyone else to get one they find acceptable?

Cheers,
Pete

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## levin4now

bluegrasstjej! I just listened to your RHBoy recording. This can't be a recording from the same girl who was berating herself recently for poor playing b/c that recording is fantastic! What a great job - and a different version (or at least changes made)

Great job. Keep it up.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Thank you!!!
This is the first recording to this project that I'm really pleased with. And, I recorded it in one take, as well. Porbably because I first didn't think of using it to the project, I just wanted to try my new microphone. I had planned to do a completely different version, singing it too (probably will do that too), but this version just came to me. I'm not sure where I've got it from. I think it's from the mandolin picker's fakebook, or it may be partly improvised by myself too, I don't remember. But I'm very glad I got a good recording so soon. It increased my failing confidence...
I've played this tune a lot, but Bert Casey's version, and one of these tunes that i've played too much, so that I'm completely fed up with it, but playing this new version made it fresh again.
Thanks for your comments, it made my day!

It's been great to listen to everyone's recordings. And I'm really looking forward to the last days of the month when the recordings usually drop in one by one every day.

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## Bluegrasstjej

There is a new recording by someone named Bart Nash! Great job indeed!! I love this version!

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## cam

Yo Bluegrasstjej! Great work! Nurses!

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## Dru Lee Parsec

OK guys, you inspired me. I went down to Radio Shack and bought a $39 microphone and a 1/4" to mini plug adapter and plugged it into my sound card. I downloaded Audacity and started playing with it a bit. I even recorded a quick 2 track practice track to make sure I know how it works.

So you've corrupted me.  I'm joining the ranks of Song Project Mandolin players. I hope to have an MP3 up in a couple of days.

Dru. AKA Greg

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## picksnbits

Thanks Bluegrasstjej,

I've been watching this project for a while and finally got up the nerve to join in. I think I'm hooked now. I can see that this is going to be a great motivator.

Does everyone else use the "noise removal" effect of audacity? After combining the 3 tracks I had a noticeable whine bleeding through. Noise removal took the whine out, but I think it dulled the recording a bit.  Anyone got any tips for keeping it clean and crisp?

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## craig

bart (picksnbits),

you've got quite a country feel to your version. a real pleasure to listen to! thanks for posting!

craig

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## craig

> So you've corrupted me.  #I'm joining the ranks


awesome!!

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## Dru Lee Parsec

Well, I hope I did it right. I signed up to Yahoo groups and joined the mandolin project group. I went to the files section and saw that there was a "Red Haired Boy" folder so I uploaded my song to that folder.

If that wasn't right let me know and I'll try it again.

If that was right and it shows up on the project page soon then I should say that it was recorded with a Breedlove KO mando and a Wegan M150 pick. I've been playing mando since last September but I've been playing guitar for many many years. When I play RHB I tend to toss in a lot of blue notes so I did that here. Hope you like it.


Thanks
Dru Lee Parsec A.K.A. Greg B

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## craig

Dru Lee Parsec,

you did it correctly. thanks for signing up and posting. i'll get you moved over to the mainpage as soon as i get a moment.

craig

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## Dru Lee Parsec

Great. Now that I know I'm posting them correctly (I've never done anything with Yahoo groups before) I can work on catching up with all those other tunes I need to learn.

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## picksnbits

Greg, I pulled your song down off Yahoo before Craig moved it.  

It sounds really good.  I'm having too much fun doing multiple tracks in Audacity (look Ma, I'm a band!), but I like the sound of the mando-only posts that most people are doing.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Greg, your version is just awesome!!! I love those little bluesy extra notes!!!!

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## Dru Lee Parsec

Thank you guys. It's nice to get positive feedback. Makes me want to go play some more!

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## David Horovitz

I've been lurking for a while and enjoying the variety of song interpretations. Now I've finally added my own contribution for RHB today. 

It's very instructive to hear oneself playing. I think I need to work on my tone and timing a bit. I recorded this in two takes with nothing but mando and a laptop, no external mic or audio interface.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Wow, David, it sounds good!! It sounds great! Very well done! 
I agree that recording oneself is a great way to learn about what you need to improve on. The recordings are your best teacher.

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## jimini_pickit

I've hesitated, but decided to do a quick recording and throw one up there, warts and all.  

 Happy Pickin'
  Jim

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## Mark Normand

Thats 3 new very nice mando-only versions posted. Very well done guys!

Keep 'em coming! Too bad I have to work or I'd be sitting around trying to copy lots of those licks!

Mark

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## fiddlegit

Firstly I'd like to say how much I enjoy listening to all your music. I've been lurking on the Mandolin Project site for a couple of months, now I've posted my first tune, I don't actually play mando (yet) so I done it on the fiddle. I'd like to know if my post was successful, so if anyone has been unfortunate enough to hear it, please would you let me know.

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## davestem

I'd like to heartily second all you who mentioned what a cool idea this is. I'm wowed, and I plan to post a Fisher's Hornpipe soon. I surely do love the Cafe, where else does awesome stuff like this happen?
A question on recording--I have a fine digital multitracker, but when I try to record using the mic input on my laptop, I get a warbly sound quality. (I use MS sound recorder.) Is it a software problem? I have a smoking laptop...

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## CapnScarlett

"I have a smoking laptop... "

That could be your problem...
 :Wink: 

Kate

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## davestem

After more listening:

Benignus, what type of mandolin, pick, and equalization did you use when recording Fisher's Hornpipe?
That's a wonderfully warm mandolin sound. (and fine playing, too.)

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## Michael H Geimer

Susanne,
You are getting better and better with each month! I think craig's Master Plan must be working. I know that I have personally improved as a result of this project, but you're progress is clear and true and wonderful to witness. Keep it up!

Rob,
I love hearing versions like yours. Your playing is steady, clean, and your working well within your limits. That is, it sounds to me like you _could_ play RHB faster, but instead you choose instead to play it _better_.

Greg, love that bluesy stuff.

Davestem,
Thanks for the nice words. I'm playing a Spruce/Maple Bitterroot strung up with Sam Bush strings, and picked with a Dawg. I record using an SM-57. So, nothing out of the oridinary, but I've started to realize that my particular mandolin has a distict sound. I really like the warm full tone, and its long sustain. Eventhough it's not that 'classic' Bluegrass sound, its tone is a great fit to my playing style.

Your issus RE: recording on your laptop ... sounds like that little mic on your laptop just can't handle the high frequencies, so its breaking up and causing that 'wobble'. Your microphone is anagous to a cameras lens in that it defines the quality of _everything_ you record. So your 'screaming laptop' recorded a perfect image of a lousy source signal.

For a laptop, you might try using a USB soundcard, and a decent microphone that is designed for music, rather than just speaking - which is what your laptop mic is designed to record.

Happy Friday everyone!

 - Benig

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## davestem

Re-reading my earlier post, I see that I wasn't very clear about my problem. #I've been using my multitracker to record on, and then routing the output of the mastered, final tracks to the 1/8" microphone jack on my laptop. #

I have a finished, line-level signal going to the laptop (I lower the level out of the multitracker to get it down to more appropriate mic-level signal strength), which I record using Microsoft Sound Recorder. #Though the sound quality is very good coming out of the multitracker, and sounds very good through the computer speakers during recording, when I play back the recording, I get a warbly, junky-sounding mess. #

I don't know if this is due to the "integrated sound card" of the laptop, or a poor quality recording program (which MS Sound Recorder most assuredly is). #The laptop (which I recently bought, a HP Pavilion vz5160, I think) is multi-media oriented, so I'm hoping that this is not due to inferior sound card processing. #In fact, I'm pretty sure that's not the case, since I can hear the music through the computer speakers, sounding fine. #I strongly suspect it's due to the recording program. #

Do you folks know of any freeware or shareware recording and/or mp3 conversion software that may give better results?

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## Martin Jonas

Dave --

Does you laptop have a line-in port as well as a mic-in port? #If yes, I'd suggest using that one. #If no, that's par for the course for many laptops (including mine), but a multi-media one should have both. #The normal problem with noisy recordings is that people are trying to plug microphones directly into computers and try to get the recording level fixed in software. #This rarely works -- some sort of hardware pre-amp between mic and soundcard is usually needed. #But from your description of your hardware, this doesn't seem to be your problem -- your multitracker presumably includes a pre-amp. #As far as software is concerned, I use Audacity and so do most of the people in the project. #Try it; it's free and may work better than Sound Recorder.

For what it's worth, I have in the past used the integrated soundcard of a bog-standard Dell laptop to transfer tapes and vinyl to CD, with very decent results, so I'd be surprised if your laptop isn't capable of doing the digitising with better results than you're describing.

Martin

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## Michael H Geimer

" I'm hoping that this is not due to inferior sound card processing. #In fact, I'm pretty sure that's not the case, since I can hear the music through the computer speakers, sounding fine. "

Try what Martin says first ... that is, use a Line Level input to the laptop. If you can do that, it will probably solve the 'warbling' issue.

I suspect the 'good signal' you're hearing out of the speakers when you record is not actually a true monitoring of the input signal, but rather just a re-direct of the input. So, you're not hearing how the built-in mic-preamp is distorting the signal until playback time.

Once again, I would suggest a USB soundcard that is better suited for musical work.

Good luck ... Audio recording on computers is always difficult to troubleshoot, because there are so many conflicting issues and few people really understand all the subtle points ... myself included!

 - Benig

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## davestem

Much thanks, Benig and MJ. I will give Audacity a shake, and if I have no luck there, then I will resort to buying new hardware. Sadly (and inexplicably) my laptop does not have a line-level input...hopefully your suggestions will do the trick. Thanks!

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## rmcintos

Benig,

Thanks for the feedback. 

You hit the completely hit the nail on the head. I always want to play faster (too much Anthrax I guess), but in the end I usually come back to the three Ts.

--Rob

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## fiddlegit

As I haven't had any response to my previous post I am wondering whether my post of Red Haired Boy wasn't successful, or I'm just being ignored because I don't play mandolin.

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## Michael H Geimer

I don't think you're being ignored. But,perhaps you've made yourself harder to find by putting your file in its own folder, rather than within the prescibed Red Haired Boy folder. At least I certainly missed it yesterday.

But ... it sounds awesome. I really love the tone of a fiddle. You're a brave man to tackle that fretless, bow-driven beast!

 - Benig

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## fiddlegit

Thanks for the response Benignus, I had a feeling I'd put it in the wrong place from something I read in another post. But I'm not sure how that happened. (I find instructions confusing)  Maybe I'll have more luck with the next one.

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## fiddlegit

I just worked out what I did wrong. When I first tried uploading my file I got a message saying "file with that name already exists" and the only way I could find round it was to make a seperate folder for it. I think I know what I'm doing now.  It should now be in the right place.  

I apologise for accusing anyone of ignoring me, must be my paranoia.

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## levin4now

Very nice jimbobebob! Don't be so modest. Very nice ending too. Can you teach me that?

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## jimini_pickit

Alan,
 I'll try to attach a tab template for 'Endings'...hope it works!
 JP

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## sjusk

> As I haven't had any response to my previous post I am wondering whether my post of Red Haired Boy wasn't successful, or I'm just being ignored because I don't play mandolin.


Roger, I have also just completed my first 2 uploads. A couple of days ago it was Clinch Mountain Backstep in the Miscellaneous folder, and today Red Haired Boy. 
I clicked your version of RHB, but it wouldn´t play - too bad - I love fiddle music, and would like hear how you did it.
Maybe it´ll work once Craig transfers the file to the Mandolin Project site. (I tested the others in the RHB folder, they worked fine).

Sound quality is rather poor in my recordings. I use a PC-mic, and have to remove noise, and it seems to take away some of the authentic mandolin sound aswell. Never the less, it exposes one´s weeknesses, and I know I have to work with my timing and keeping a steady tempo.

I play a KM-20 Kalamazoo, 1940. It´s warm and rich, but I don´t think it shows 100% due to the lousy recording standard I produce.

Craig: Great project!! I hope to catch up on Cattle in the Cane and then start working with Cold Frosty Morning.

Søren - sjusk

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## sjusk

Allright, Cattle in the Cane is up!

Fry me, folks!!

sjusk / ssndergaard

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## fiddlegit

Søren, I don't know why my file of RHB won't play for you, I think others have listened to it ok. Anyway it's not up to the standard of your playing on Clinch Mountain or Cattle, which I enjoyed listening to. I played along to your Clinch Mountain on fiddle which I also enjoyed doing.

I hope to upload more recordings soon. I've just learned Cold Frosty Morning which I'll upload when I've got it up to a decent tempo.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Sjusk, you're awesome on that recording. Cattle in the cane, that is. Very well done.

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## sjusk

Susanne and Roger, thanks a lot! 
I believe many of us in this forum do several recordings before we upload, and still we´re not 100% content with the result. But this is what it´s all about, isn´t it? Showing one another where we are standing right now.

I don´t know why I can´t get to hear your contribution, Roger, it keep saying that it can´t find the file, or the URL isn´t right.
Fiddling along on Clinch Mountain? WOW! I´M HONOURED!

Susanne, great website you got. Did you do it yourself?

Enchouraged, Søren / sjusk

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## Bluegrasstjej

> Susanne, great website you got. Did you do it yourself?
> 
> Enchouraged, Søren / sjusk


Yeah, I did. I love playing around with HTML. The English version isn't ready yet, but it will be soon.........I hope.

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## fiddlegit

> I don´t know why I can´t get to hear your contribution, Roger, it keep saying that it can´t find the file, or the URL isn´t right.
> Enchouraged, Søren / sjusk


I've just realized that I can't get any of the mp3 files to play without downloading them to my hard disc first.

If you really want to hear my file  maybe this will work for you Søren. If it hurts your ears too much you can just delete it so you won't risk hearing it again by accident.

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## sjusk

Roger, downloading your RHB worked.

And you are being much too modest - nothing in your file hurts my ears!
I actually picked along and enjoyed it.

You keep a nice steady tempo, and I wonder which part you record first: The tune or the back-up? Or do you have a friend to play the guitar?
I´ve tried to do the rhythme-part first, but it didn´t really work for me, so I have to try and keep a steady beat while doing the tune. At least it´s good training and makes me focus on tempo and timing.

Søren / sjusk

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## fiddlegit

Glad you got to hear it Søren. And thanks for your kind words.

I recorded the guitar first (using a click track, my timing isn't usually that good # )then fiddled over the top.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Roger, what media player are you using as default? I've noticed that when I use any other media player than Windows media player, I have to download the files to my hard drive to be able to listen to them. At the moment I use iTunes, which I'm quite satisfied with, but when I click on a link to a file, it asks me if I want to save it or open it, and I choose open it. In windows media player, it just opens the file when I click on it, which is very handy.

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## fiddlegit

I am using Windows media player Susanne, when I click to just open the file the Windows media player comes up but it won't play the file  .

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## Bluegrasstjej

Maybe you can try going to Tools, then Options, and choose the thing that says "file types" and then check all the file types, than Ok. It never hurts doing it. It actually worked for me when I had tried some other programs even if I still had WMP as default player.

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## fiddlegit

> Maybe you can try going to Tools, then Options, and choose the thing that says "file types" and then check all the file types, than Ok.


Thanks Susanne but I can't find "the thing that says 'file types'" anywhere.

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## craig

try accessing the files from the MP mainpage, now. you shouldn't have any trouble. yahoo is just a pain in the butt. let me know if you're still struggling.

craig

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## craig

sjusk,

nothing to fry! sweet job on CITC! wish i could dance cuz i'd be cutting a rug with this one!

thanks!

craig

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## Bluegrasstjej

> Originally Posted by  (Bluegrasstjej @ Aug. 04 2004, 11:56)
> 
> Maybe you can try going to Tools, then Options, and choose the thing that says "file types" and then check all the file types, than Ok.
> 
> 
> Thanks Susanne but I can't find "the thing that says 'file types'" anywhere.


Maybe it isn't file types in English. Just go to options (or it may be called settings, maybe), and go through all the menus, on one of them there should be a list of different file types (mp3, wav, WMA etc) and you can check or uncheck them. so, if you find it, click in all the check boxes for all types and then ok.

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## craig

ken,

looks like you're all caught up now. some strong work getting all these tunes recorded in such a short time.

thanks for playing along!

cheers,

craig

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## uncle ken

I've been meaning to do it for a while now but it takes some time and effort to get the recording thing going but once you get it set up it's lots of fun to record these fiddle tunes. I'm looking forward to learning Frosty Morning.

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## Bluegrasstjej

Ken, that's awesome!!! I really hope you recorded those harmony in different tracks or did you do double stops??? Sounds really nice anyway!!!!

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## uncle ken

I recorded 3 tracks, first the melody line then a harmony and then guitar chords. It would be impossible to play a harmony at the same time using double stops. I worked out the harmony after recording the melody so I had something to practice it with. Audacity is good for multi tracking except for the timing realignment that you have to do each time.

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## cam

Nice harmonies uncle ken. Does audacity only allow mono recordings? It would sound even nicer with a little stereo seperation of the parts imho.

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## Bluegrasstjej

> I recorded 3 tracks, first the melody line then a harmony and then guitar chords. It would be impossible to play a harmony at the same time using double stops. I worked out the harmony after recording the melody so I had something to practice it with. Audacity is good for multi tracking except for the timing realignment that you have to do each time.


I actually don't like Audacity just because of the timing realignments, I don't like having to adjust the timing after each track, it never gets perfect. I wish I could use N-track that records new tracks with perfect timing. But I have to wait until I can get more memory for my computer.

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## uncle ken

There is no mixer in the program so you have to record each track in stereo from the start. That means you have to use a stereo mixer with your microphone and set the pan position before you record. I have been doing it that way on all of my recordings so far but you can't always hear it unless I pan it way over.

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## uncle ken

Is anyone else using N-track? I went to their website and it's $50 but it looks like a more developed program. Another problem I have with audacity is when I export to mp3 there is a big drop in sound quality. I changed the mp3 setting to 256 bits per second and it helped but I can still hear a difference.

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## sjusk

Uncle Ken, I use n-track, and yes, it has more features than Audacity. The problem of timing tracks is non-existing in n-track, and mixing offers a good deal more, I guess. Not that I am an expert on these matters (which definitely shows in my recordings, ha! I use a PC-mic, and have to remove noise in Audacity, which n-track by the way doesn´t offer!).
I think n-track has a version for free download, but you know how that is: some of the important features may be turned off, and message boxes tend to pop up when you don´t need them.

And this: I like your way of picking, and I always enjoy your uploads, so please just let them keep coming, whether you want to use Audacity, n-track or a deaf goat.

Happy pickin´
sjusk

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## Flatpick

Piece of cake......

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