# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  Getting into Jazz Tenor Guitar?

## Ted Eschliman

As my personal pursuits and interests have markedly shift from mandolin to tenor guitar, I'm contemplating tackling another project very similar to my "*Getting Into Jazz Mandolin*" book published 9/2008, but for the tenor. Those familiar with this book know my approach, taking closed position fingerings (FFcP) and developing the ability to move up, down, and across the fretboard so as to be comfortable in all 12 keys. 

I'm curious if my market for such a book is too narrow. At this stage, I've already found success with the approach myself, but I don't know if others would pay $14.99 to go down the same path. 

I'd include some helpful basic music theory ('ii V7 I' & turnarounds), stock chord fingerings, and scale exercises derivative of FFcP.

Any thoughts?

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bruce.b, 

GKWilson, 

John Lloyd, 

MdJ, 

ondrej, 

Simon DS, 

StuartE

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## Adam Tracksler

a thousand yeses (from me at least)

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## MC16

Given the total lack of instructional material for tenor guitar I could see it being useful, but niche.

Advertising it as Jazz for Tenor Guitar and _Tenor Banjo_ would probably help the appeal.

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Ted Eschliman

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## derbex

Would there be any 'applied' Jazz TG, for example a bunch of tunes showing how you would use  FFCP and the chord fingerings you show?

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## Sweetpea44

I would be interested in such a book.

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## Seonachan

I'd buy it for sure.

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## crisscross

I'd be also interested. I'd be especially keen to learn some chord-melody playing.

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GKWilson

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## bigbendhiker

I would purchase your book. I too would be interested in learning chord-melody playing.




> I'd be also interested. I'd be especially keen to learn some chord-melody playing.

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GKWilson

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## fox

I am not really into jazz but I would buy the book as I buy anything tenor guitar related.

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## Beanzy

Well due to the nature of the fingering it's not going to be just a rework of FFcP so you'll capture many of the GIJM purchasers again.
If it's going to encourage the best out of the TG then it won't just be a rehash of the various tenor banjo books that so many of us relied on initially for learning & chord melody.
I would assume you'll just go for reading from transposed treble clef with the tab underneath? 
Instruction books on chording and fingerboard exercises are about the only place where I find the interlaced notation and tablature helpful rather than a distraction; it works really well in extercises. 
I would avoid putting many tune examples in there, those can be accessed on line, leaving the book pages as a more densely useful stand alone resource.

While we can all muddle by combining the various banjo & mandolin bits out there, there's a need for something pulling it together for the TG.
Being Jazz oriented the only thing that would kill it for me is if it were anything but CGDA as the main tuning, or did that mash up you get in the chord bible. If you're in one tuning you don't want to be wading through interleaved info for another. 
I always feel cheated if I'm buying 1/2 a book of information on something I'll never use. 
How you satisfy all tunings without making 1/2 the book useless or offering multiple editions is beyond me. 
Possibly simpler with modern publishing methods enabling alternate editions to be put out once the CGDA one has been done?

Special requests,
1, make it available as digital download version so we can use it on our iPads on the move. 
2, make it spiral bound in the book version. 
3- offer combined hard copy & PDF purchase price (makes it more attractive as a package, and you can boost revenues from early sales too).

 :Popcorn:

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Christine Robins, 

fox

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## nkforster

> As my personal pursuits and interests have markedly shift from mandolin to tenor guitar, I'm contemplating tackling another project very similar to my "*Getting Into Jazz Mandolin*" book published 9/2008, but for the tenor. Those familiar with this book know my approach, taking closed position fingerings (FFcP) and developing the ability to move up, down, and across the fretboard so as to be comfortable in all 12 keys. 
> 
> I'm curious if my market for such a book is too narrow. At this stage, I've already found success with the approach myself, but I don't know if others would pay $14.99 to go down the same path. 
> 
> I'd include some helpful basic music theory ('ii V7 I' & turnarounds), stock chord fingerings, and scale exercises derivative of FFcP.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Having gone self published both print and ebook versions of niche books myself I can say the ebooks are the way to go for me. But if you're working with a publisher for a fee that's not so relevant. A combination of ebook and download video works well too.

Nigel
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/inst.../tenor-guitar/

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## Mandocarver

I'd actually put in a plea for GDAE tuning because people who tune CGDA can already access a lot of tenor banjo material whereas, to my knowledge, there's nothing jazz-oriented out there for the GDAE-tuned TG.

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GKWilson, 

Gotterdamerung, 

Lord of the Badgers

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## Freddyfingers

I would spend that.

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## Al Haley

Put me down for one, please.

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Larry321

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## Jeff Hildreth

I'd be interested if it were directed at the original tuning of CGDA  as it is a tenor guitar, not an octave mandolin.  There is a boatload of GDAE material, far more than CGDA.

And please... spiral binding.

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bigbendhiker, 

Christine Robins

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## Ryk Loske

All ten thumbs up from here.  And what Jeff said times two:  CGDA and SPIRAL BINDING !!!
Did i mention SPIRAL BINDING would be great.

Ryk

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## willdrum

Great idea, I'll have one.

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## Larry321

You write the jazz tenor guitar book and I will buy it!

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## bacchettadavid

I will buy it if you write it.

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## GKWilson

Have you sent mine yet?
It would be nice to have a Section for GDAE.
Also, Jazz players use other tunings. It would
be interesting to have a short discussion of
what these are and why they may use them.

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## ajh

I'd be in for one.  Standard tenor tuning (CGDA) please.

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## Steve Zawacki

Would love such a book, and hopefully a video series would follow....

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## Rick Purcell

I would buy this. Spiral bound would be a plus, and CGDA tuning would be preferred; although, I transpose everything I learn from CGDA to GDAE and vice versa. BTW, I do like your Getting into Jazz book, thanks.

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## mandroid

Tenor Guitar Gathering  in June , in Astoria, again..(I expect)  you could do a  class..




 :Whistling:

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fox

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## JeffD

Would you use single fret per finger FFcP or, like mandolin, two frets per finger?

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## Ted Eschliman

Two frets per finger and up the neck. FFcP patterns would start and center around the 5th fret for better spacing and movability up (and down) the neck. Also, a little more emphasis on 3-note accompaniment chord blocks that can be easily transposed to other keys.

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CHASAX

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## ajh

Thanks for the clarification Ted.  But centering everything around the 5th fret would kill it for me.  The reason I went from mandolin to tenor based tunings was to get the lower voicing.

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## DavidKOS

> Would you use single fret per finger FFcP or, like mandolin, two frets per finger?


 That depends on the scale length. Often though I mix fingerings on larger instruments in the mando/tenor banjo family.

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## Beanzy

I'm interested in why 2 frets. 
I use cello fingering on the TG (incorporates shifting and 1/2 positions as standard parts of most scales) for fluidity and speed.
I'm missing what might be the advantage in locking things in to something like 2 fingers per fret on anything over about 16".

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DavidKOS, 

John Lloyd

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## Ted Eschliman

This will be controversial, but understand the approach is coming from mandolin (not cello or guitar) and the bulk of this is to develop closed finger playing. This is a jazz approach, very little (if nothing) in open string playing. The goal is to play in the "horn" keys and be able to move quickly into the rapidly shifting tonal centers of jazz. 

Admittedly, it won't be everybody's cup of tea, especially if you're only interested in folk or Celtic music on the tenor. It won't be a comprehensive approach to the instrument. I'll leave that to another author to tackle drones and alternate tunings.

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DavidKOS, 

John Lloyd

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## Verne Andru

> I'd actually put in a plea for GDAE tuning because people who tune CGDA can already access a lot of tenor banjo material whereas, to my knowledge, there's nothing jazz-oriented out there for the GDAE-tuned TG.


I have a copy of "Beginning Jazz Method for Tenor (Banjo, Guitar & Mandola) published by the California Banjo Institute. It covers jazz basics and includes samples in both CGDA and DGBE tunings. GDAE could be the same as CGDA but in a different key I would think.

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## Beanzy

I get the closed position playing, that's why I uses cello fingering which includes shifts and extensions as standard. 
But two per fret seems to be limiting for longer scale instruments in 5ths. 
I hope it works out ok for you, I know the commitment that goes into pulling a book together & wouldn't like to see you cut off too many potential buyers by offering a niche technique within an already small niche on 5th strung instruments. 
Should you try to pitch it at the Chicago tuning then so it makes more guitar type sense?

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## Verne Andru

The two "traditional" tenor books (Blues and Jazz) I own both have a strong focus on FFCP chording but the positions are all up around the 7th and higher frets where the spacing is close enough for that to happen on a 23" scale instrument.

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## Frankweir

Count me in...ready to buy!

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## dcav

I'm a huge Jazz fan, and I'm a relative newcomer to tenor guitar...8 yrs into it now. What does FFcP mean?....and what is the logic behind two frets per finger mandolin playing? I'm trying to internalize all things fifths tuning, being a bluegrass five string banjo player for many a year. Please tell me your individual thinking on your fretboard. 

David

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## Ted Eschliman

FFcP for mandolin.

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Charles E.

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## dcav

Thank You Ted, I'm going to work on these position transitions. Very Cool.

David

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## Ted Eschliman

One of my first projects is transposing my 4 part "Vamps" series from the mandolin fretboard to tenor. The positions are all here in the free Cafe Lessons Page, albeit a 5th higher than on tenor. If you can make the GDAE transposition to CGDA (think down a 5th), all the chord relationships are the same. You could print the PDFs off and cross out the mandolin chord and replace with tenor for the time being.



In other words, the above example would transpose to G, Am, Bm, C on tenor.

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derbex, 

Simon DS

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## Capt. E

I just recently acquired a beautiful old tenor guitar...a Stromberg-Voisonet from the late 20's early 30's and would love to have a book as you describe.  I know they play identically to a Mandola when tuned CGDA, which is where I plan to begin.

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## Florida

Any updates on this?  You are a huge resource for me.  I started your FFcP on mandolin and have apparently followed in your footsteps playing mostly tenor guitar.  Id definitely pay $15 to learn your approach to the TG.  Im currently working through your jazz mandolin book on my BR40T tuned GDAE dont even have to transpose, Just stretch ;-)

Thank you for all you do! 






> Two frets per finger and up the neck. FFcP patterns would start and center around the 5th fret for better spacing and movability up (and down) the neck. Also, a little more emphasis on 3-note accompaniment chord blocks that can be easily transposed to other keys.

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## JIMGDAE

I'm also working at the Getting into Jazz Mandolin Book.
Something similar for Tenor Guitar would be a great resource.
Would definitely buy a copy.
Spiral bound would be good.

cheers

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## Ryk Loske

Are there any developments with this idea Ted?  There certainly seemed to be a fair amount of interest in the book.

Ryk

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## Lord of the Badgers

If you can make me play this https://youtu.be/aTjm60tm2WY
Then take my money already

(Safari on my iPad seems incompatible with embedding videos on the forum - something to check)

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## Simon DS

Here’s the text that you could write to get it to work (it’s just memorizing the format that’s not so easy, good luck)

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## Scotter

> If you can make me play this https://youtu.be/aTjm60tm2WY
> Then take my money already
> 
> (Safari on my iPad seems incompatible with embedding videos on the forum - something to check)


Wow, I now have a new hero!  And, check out that vintage kitchen!

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## Bill McCall

> If you can make me play this https://youtu.be/aTjm60tm2WY
> Then take my money ....


I’ll sign up for that program too

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## fox

The John Lawlors, nephew has posted on these pages in the past, I was sure he said there would be more videos but that was years ago!
Yes the video linking doesn’t work for me either ... it used to work but something changed about a year back.

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## twinfinn

I would be interested if you are still considering this project (jazz tenor guitar).

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## mandroid

Trad Jazz Bands  had tenor banjo players,   Then came Eddie Lang .. .. .. & Bandleaders then wanted Guitar players , 
so Buying the Tenor Guitar allowed all those guys to keep their job in the bands .. 

Or soi the story is told ..      Ought to be old Jazz band Scores out there.. 




 :Whistling:

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> Trad Jazz Bands  had tenor banjo players,   Then came Eddie Lang .. .. .. & Bandleaders then wanted Guitar players , 
> so Buying the Tenor Guitar allowed all those guys to keep their job in the bands .. 
> 
> Or soi the story is told ..      Ought to be old Jazz band Scores out there..


There are old dance band and jazz scores, stock arrangements, etc., but they usually just name the chords, no diagrams.

BTW, in the New Orleans days of early jazz, the guitar was often used before the 4 (or 6) string banjo, which came a little later:

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lowtone2

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## lowtone2

Are you interested in teaching tenor banjo style chord melody, or more like just picking up tenor guitar as a modern melodic jazz instrument?  As in Tiny Grimes, but in 5ths? Either way, I'm in. 

Just throwing this in, Tiny didn't seem to be very limited by his tenor in 4ths ( and a 3rd).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mS4jjjSml4

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DavidKOS

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## lowtone2

> There are old dance band and jazz scores, stock arrangements, etc., but they usually just name the chords, no diagrams.
> 
> BTW, in the New Orleans days of early jazz, the guitar was often used before the 4 (or 6) string banjo, which came a little later:


Not saying you're wrong, but I've always heard that the tenor was first, and people started moving to guitar in the 30s. I guess pictures don't lie.

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## DavidKOS

> Not saying you're wrong, but I've always heard that the tenor was first, and people started moving to guitar in the 30s. I guess pictures don't lie.


https://syncopatedtimes.com/eddie-la...%20the%201890s.

"While it is tempting to say that the jazz guitar began with Eddie Lang, the instrument had been used in jazz since the 1890s. "

https://www.vjm.biz/167-eddie-lang-web-layout-1.pdf

Another issue - recording. After the first jazz recordings in 1917, most band were using banjos as they recorded much better than guitars did in the pre-electric days of acoustic disc cutting.

What you heard is the most common story, but it is just the 2nd and 3rd chapter of the story of guitar and banjo in jazz.

prelude - the 5 string banjo in minstrel show music and ragtime, mid to late 1800's; guitar growing in popularity

Chapter 1 - turn-of-the century (1900) acoustic flat-top guitars

Chapter 2 - circa WWI - the tenor, plectrum and 6-string banjo 

Chapter 3 - from mid 20-s to early 30's - return to use of the guitar, now typically an archtop f hole model; this is when the tenor guitar was used by tenor banjo players.

interlude 1 - the metal resonator guitar

interlude 2 - Django and the Selmer guitar....

Chapter 4 - mid to late 30's - the electric guitar in jazz, a la Charlie Christian

Chapter 5 - post WWII, lots of variety in electric guitars, guitar becomes popular jazz lead instrument

Chapter 6 - 70's jazz-rock fusion and so on...

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CHASAX, 

Denis Kearns, 

lowtone2

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## s11141827

> I'd actually put in a plea for GDAE tuning because people who tune CGDA can already access a lot of tenor banjo material whereas, to my knowledge, there's nothing jazz-oriented out there for the GDAE-tuned TG.


Actually any Jazz Mandolin methods will apply to GDAE Tuned Tenor Guitar cause it's the same tuning. You can use GDAE Tuning in Jazz cause it gives the Tenor Guitar a deeper mellower sound:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgJ1_6hN8x4

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## s11141827

The Nitty Gritty Jazz Band's Guitarist Nikolas Kiselov uses GDAE Tuning on his Tenor Banjo & Tenor Guitar (using John Pearse Tenor Guitar Strings)

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## Denis Kearns

> Given the total lack of instructional material for tenor guitar I could see it being useful, but niche.
> 
> Advertising it as Jazz for Tenor Guitar and _Tenor Banjo_ would probably help the appeal.


It could also be useful for other CGDA instruments like the Mandola and Mandocello.

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## Denis Kearns

Sorry for this last comment - I was trying to respond to another thread. Guess I need an additional cup of coffee.

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## Denis Kearns

I would be interested as well, since there is less material available for the CGDA instruments (tenor guitar and banjo, mandola, mandocello).  I know that a lot of folks really like the spiral binding since it is easy to lay flat, but as a bibliophile and amateur bookbinder, I consider spiral bindings to be an abomination. A properly constructed book will lay flat; unfortunately too many music books are perfect bound, which is standard for paperbacks and a misnomer since these quickly self destruct.  I would probably buy the ebook and construct my own.   

Will have to check out your Getting into Jazz Mandolin book (not that I really need another instruction book, but..one can dream!)  

Thanks for the thread, Ted!

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## Denis Kearns

GaaaH!  Maybe I just need to go back to bed………..

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s11141827

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## Denis Kearns

Never mind,  I just realized that this thread is longer than I thought.  I had not read the 3rd page, so maybe I really do need to go back to bed!!!

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s11141827

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## s11141827

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snoCfde-sRE GDAE Tuning on the Tenor Guitar sounds quite Jazzy because it mellows out the Guitar's sound.

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## s11141827

> As my personal pursuits and interests have markedly shift from mandolin to tenor guitar, I'm contemplating tackling another project very similar to my "*Getting Into Jazz Mandolin*" book published 9/2008, but for the tenor. Those familiar with this book know my approach, taking closed position fingerings (FFcP) and developing the ability to move up, down, and across the fretboard so as to be comfortable in all 12 keys. 
> 
> I'm curious if my market for such a book is too narrow. At this stage, I've already found success with the approach myself, but I don't know if others would pay $14.99 to go down the same path. 
> 
> I'd include some helpful basic music theory ('ii V7 I' & turnarounds), stock chord fingerings, and scale exercises derivative of FFcP.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Actually GDAE Tuning gives you a mellower sound that's Ideal for Jazz so any Jazz Mandolin book will work

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## malarz

Has this book been published?

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## maxr

I've been having an initial look at applying mandolin books to tenor guitar. What I'd really like is a book you can apply to anything in CGDA or GDAE tuning in either octave, from standard mandolin to popular tenor/mandola/octave mandolin scale length. The reason is that some comfortable tenor chords are a bit tight on mandolin, and a number of popular mandolin chord shapes are too long to be comfortable for most on tenor (eg 'chop G'). I don't mind transposing to GDAE tenor tuning (say if the book is basically CGDA). It seems to me that GDAE tenor sounds quite good with gypsy jazz styles, from trying a few (easy!) licks from Grapelli etc fiddle books.

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## Verne Andru

> I've been having an initial look at applying mandolin books to tenor guitar. What I'd really like is a book you can apply to anything in CGDA or GDAE tuning in either octave, from standard mandolin to popular tenor/mandola/octave mandolin scale length. The reason is that some comfortable tenor chords are a bit tight on mandolin, and a number of popular mandolin chord shapes are too long to be comfortable for most on tenor (eg 'chop G'). I don't mind transposing to GDAE tenor tuning (say if the book is basically CGDA). It seems to me that GDAE tenor sounds quite good with gypsy jazz styles, from trying a few (easy!) licks from Grapelli etc fiddle books.


That's largely why I think 5-string mandolin is a good fit. You get compatibility with fiddle tuning but also have the lower CGDA tenor tuning for comps etc.

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maxr

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