# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Palisander wood

## red7flag

I bought a recorder made of palisander wood. I looked on the web and found that in one place it is french for Brazilian rosewood, in another for violet wood. I was wondering if one of you wood wizards could help me understand what the wood is. It is beautifully figured and reddish in tint. The Moeck catalogue says dalbergie stevensonii (as opposed to dalbergia variabilis which they call rosewood) from the rainforests of Middle America, Belize and Guatemala. Thanks for any information. 
Tony

----------


## red7flag

Being the curious fellow I am, I did a search for dalbergia and found the following information from the world famous Wikipedia, with no idea how accurate.
dalbergia baroni = palisander rosewood
dalbergia nigra = Brazilian rosewood
dalbergia stevensonii = Honduran rosewood
This would contradict the information from the Moeck catalogue. Imagine that. Oh what fun.
Tony

----------


## buddyellis

I always thought it was indian rosewood (that's how it's labeled on LMII anyway) but I guess not. Evidently used alot to make perfume, and similar to Brazilian.

----------


## red7flag

Indian Rosewood or sonokeling = dalbergia latifolia
There is another Indian Rosewood = dalbergia sissoo 
I am not clear whether these are the same. Any clarification would be appreciated.
Tony

----------


## whistler

In German, I believe 'Palisander' is used to mean 'rosewood'.

Thus: 
Indischer Palisander = Indian rosewood
Brasilienischer Palisander = Brazilian rosewood
etc.

But I could be wrong about that.


Tony (redflag),

Indian/East Indian rosewood = _Dalbergia latifolia_
I'm not sure about 'sonokeling' - it sounds like an underwater sport. It could well just be another common name for _D. latifolia_.

Sisso/sissoo is a separate species, _Dalbergia sisso_, which resembles _D. latifolia_ but is generally less richly coloured (with less purple and more brown) and is often sold as a cheap substitute.

----------


## Greenmando

I have found many rainforest woods being renamed as they get banned.

----------


## HoGo

> I have found many rainforest woods being renamed as they get banned.


This is not the case. Palisander is word for rosewood in more than one European language. It is also Slovak and Czech name for rosewood (dalbergia sp).

----------


## Martin Jonas

Indeed, Palisander is simply the German (and French, and Czech...) word for rosewood, same as it has always been. Other relevant German woods: 

spruce = Tanne
maple = Ahorn
ebony = Ebenholz
beech = Buche
birch = Birke

Martin

----------


## red7flag

So for stringed instruments, most we see will be Brazilian (nigra), E. Indian (latifolia), and Cocobola (retusa). Are there mandos or guitars made from Honduran (stevensonii) and Palisander (baroni)? I am just curious. Thanks for the information.
Tony

----------


## whistler

Honduras rosewood is favoured for xylophone bars. Don't know about stringed instruments.

----------


## Paul Hostetter

Dalbergia stevensonii, AKA , is not much to look at compared to other Dalbergias, but makes very nice guitars and so on on.



If Moeck says it makes recorders out of this wood, I believe them. They also make one out of tulipwood, Dalbergia variabilis.

The main lesson here is to not expect a common name for a wood to denote a species. Palisander, like jacaranda, just means rosewood, in broad terms. It doesn't necessarily even connote the genus Dalbergia, much less a species.

----------


## HoGo

What Paul said is true for english, but not for all languages. For instance cedar means a lot of different trees in the US, but our word 'ceder' is name just for the "true" cedar (himalayan or lebanese) the other 'cedars' have their own mames red cedar (thuja plicata) is 'tuja riasnata' and yellow cedar (juniperus virginiana) is 'borievka virzinska' and so on. Woodworkers often use the names of exotic woods like you do in US (mostly ebony and mahogany), but that is just their folklore.

----------


## Paul Hostetter

Adrian - what you've just said makes almost no sense. I don't think you understood what I said at all.

----------


## MarkG

As both Paul and Adrian point out, common names can be really confusing because different people often apply the same common name to totally different botanical taxa.  

A classic example which often crops up here on the cafe is sycamore. Im my part of the world (England) what I know as sycamore is _Acer pseudoplatanus_ - this is usually known as "European maple" in North America. What North American's know as sycamore is _Platanus_ spp. I know as "plane".  

Confused? This link might help.

-mark

----------


## Siklopz

what you need to understand about plants and the products made from them is that common names are almost useless and even scientific names change as new things are discovered about genetic relationships between plants.  the worst part is that even if a scientific name changes due to new genetic knowledge, the old one may still be used by those who've been doing so for years (scientists just like anyone else fear change).  common names change depending on the year, the person, the company selling, the region...they're relatively useless except as a starting point.  products are often labeled similarly just because they look alike.  even worse, someone in a warehouse might see two pieces of similar looking product next to each other, one unlabelled, and assume they're the same because they look the same even if they're different species, possily not even related.  wood and other plant products can be a crap shoot and sometimes you have to take a chance.  best to know your sources.

----------


## resophil

> Indeed, Palisander is simply the German (and French, and Czech...) word for rosewood, same as it has always been. Other relevant German woods: 
> 
> spruce = Tanne


Well, the debate isn't helped by sloppy translations like this one. The German "Tanne" is usually translated to fir as in "O Christmas Tree, O Christmas Tree" = "O Tannenbaum, O Tannenbaum..."

The German for spruce wood is most often translated as "Fichte" i.e. spruce wood is Fichtenholz, fir wood is Tannenholz.

As far as trees are concerned, I HAVE heard the word "Tannen" used to refer to a general stand of evergreens, but that's only for trees, not wood!

----------


## Neodymium

I worked a lot with Rosewood from Brasil. It has a very distinctive sweetish smell unlike any other hardwood. Very pleasant.

----------


## PATINA ANTIQUES LTD

> I bought a recorder made of palisander wood. I looked on the web and found that in one place it is french for Brazilian rosewood, in another for violet wood. I was wondering if one of you wood wizards could help me understand what the wood is. It is beautifully figured and reddish in tint. The Moeck catalogue says dalbergie stevensonii (as opposed to dalbergia variabilis which they call rosewood) from the rainforests of Middle America, Belize and Guatemala. Thanks for any information. 
> Tony


Tony,
Nomenclature of the rosewoods a confusing topic. Trade & scientific names bear often little relationship to eachother given that timber merchants may apply a common, or alternate nomen conservorandum name to their stock, either to make the species appear more attractive to buyers, or as is often the case in an attempt to circumvent regulation.Certainly there is a French, or more accurately Huguenot carpenters guild element to the word, but traditionally the term Palisander not a reference to Dalbergia nigra, or Brazillian rosewood. Dalbergia nigra among the more strictly CITES regulated species, ie trade in this species 100% illegal, & I assume the latter of the two reasons for naming it such would be applicable in this case. Palisander is a 17th/18thC European term for one of the species traded along the coromandel coast by the Dutch East India & the East India trading co's. Bearing in mind that during this period botany was Linnean, and that there is considerable overlap between Asian rosewood species characteristics, confining the term to a post 20thC botanists nomenclature largely academic, however - that said, traditionally the term relates to a rare Asian species called Dalbergia benthamii, otherwise known as huanghuali, or more precisely among the species referred to as huanghuali, a precious Chinese hardwood, that in certain rare cases is known to be referred to as Zitan, the Chinese emperor's furniture wood, but again, largely academic, and not related to the species more widely accepted to relate to the emperors furniture, being Pterocarpus santalinus, or Red sandalwood.
I hope this in fact answers your question and does not only serve to confuse you further.

----------


## brunello97

> I hope this in fact answers your question and does not only serve to confuse you further.


Tony (as well as each of us) is in fact five years older than when he first asked the question so hopefully his knowledge and experience with the topic has grown over time.  :Wink: 

Mick

----------

