# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  Got me a Tone Guard

## Steve Ostrander

I put the TG on my md615 and took it to practice last night. After the first song our guitar player asked "what did you do to that thing?"  I showed him the TG and he said he could definetly hear the difference. He plays a D28, which is one reason why I needed more volume!

Of the 3 that I own, the md615 was the most sensitive to holding the back agaisnt my chest. Haven't tried the TG it on any of the others yet.

It definetly makes the mandolin heavier. Not a problem, just noticably heavier.

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## MikeEdgerton

I've been a convert for years. The Tone Gard is a wonderful thing.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Thinking about getting me one as well...

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## Brent Hutto

Fortunately I don't play "out" at all. Because I'd almost have to use my Tone Gard whether I like it or not as it adds hugely to the projection of my instrument. But for some reason I just can not stand the way it feels on there so I never use it. Between the feel of metal instead of wood touching me and the way it make the mandolin balance I just can't abide it no matter how good it sounds (and it does sound good).

I wonder if maybe an F5-style mandolin with a heavy headstock balanced better with a Tone-Gard than my A5-style...

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## mandobassman

I think it's just a matter of getting used to it.  I have one on my A5 style Breedlove and it certainly felt awkward at first but it wasn't long before I didn't even know it was there.  I was out playing last weekend and someone asked "What's that thing on your mandolin"? It took me a while before I even knew what he was talking about because I been so accustomed to it being there.  I have heard people talk about their mandolin being unbalanced after installing a Tone Gard but I never noticed a difference.

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## Rick Cadger

Tone-Gards rock. I wouldn't be without one.

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## Gary Watkins

I have two of them

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## Avi Ziv

I've been using one on my Flatiron A5-Artist for about 3 years now and very happy with it. It also fist in the case without having to remove it from the mandolin

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## Jeff Oxley

I have a TG on my Washburn, but can't bring myself to put one on my Stiver--wouldn't be able to lovingly caress the gorgeously figured maple back with one 'o them thangs on there... :Redface:

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## Doug Edwards

I have two, wonderful device.  Plus they reduce belly sweat by 25%.

The D-gard works great on drednought guitars as well.

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## billkilpatrick

i held out for ages as well - ordered one from TG's distributor in germany - hopefully it'll be here end of next week

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

I do have a quick question about them.  Are all tone-gards made by the same company/person? From a quick google search I did, I was only able to find one main site about them, not counting all the different retailers who stock them.  

Also, are there any special consideration regarding dimensions when one orders one? Any differentiation between A and F style mandolins? 

Thanks

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## Martin Stevens

> It definetly makes the mandolin heavier. Not a problem, just noticably heavier.


Now that I'm used to it, I kind of like the added weight.

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## Tom F

I tried to hold the mando away from me but just play better with the TG.   It makes a diff.

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## MikeEdgerton

> I do have a quick question about them.  Are all tone-gards made by the same company/person? From a quick google search I did, I was only able to find one main site about them, not counting all the different retailers who stock them.  
> 
> Also, are there any special consideration regarding dimensions when one orders one? Any differentiation between A and F style mandolins? 
> 
> Thanks


Made by one man, Cafe member TonyP. The A and F are the same. I have two and move them between 4 mandolins.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

> Made by one man, Cafe member TonyP. The A and F are the same. I have two and move them between 4 mandolins.


Excellent. Thanks Mike.

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## 300win

I guess I have a natural 'tone gaurd'. I always sit the back edge of my mando against the hump I have above my belt, and push out with my left hand slightly to get the least amount of contact . I weigh roughly 250, but have been doing this since I weighed less than a 100, so I don't guess I need one. Although I have noticed a lot of bluejean purchases over the years have grown in waist size in leaps and bounds. Hey I live in 'the South', fried chicken, gravy, grits, deep dish fruit pies, they do have a tendency to grow your own tone-gaurd.

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## Jeff Oxley

> Also, are there any special consideration regarding dimensions when one orders one? Any differentiation between A and F style mandolins?


I know Tony makes at least 2 different TG models suitable to the dimensions of the back of your particular mandolin, as measured from the widest part of the back (from bass side to treble side, obviously, not from tailpiece to heel!).  I measured mine with tailor's measuring tape (softer that a metal tape line!) and had to go with Tony's Vintage model TG, as mine was a wee bit too wide for the his standard model.

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Eldon Dennis

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Jeff - thanks. I think no matter what I'll take the measurement of my mandolin and send it to Tony when I'm ready to order one.

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## Bob Bronow

I see another acquisition on the horizon! 

Has anyone used one of these on a mando with an arm rest. I've got one of Steve Bell's on my Kentucky-A and am wondering if it would get in the way.

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## Gary Watkins

Mine works just fine. Here are a few pictures of the Tone-Gard and the arm rest.

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## George R. Lane

Bob 
I have one on my Weber Vintage A and use a McClung armrest. There is a gap of about an 1/8 inch between the ToneGard and the body. No problems encounter in the 2 1/2 years it has been on.

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## GRW3

I use a Tone Gard with a McClung armrest. I feel like I'm decked out to jam. Besides keeping the back from being damped it also keeps me from having to worry about what I'm wearing. Lately I have found another use - I 'know more songs than I remember I know' so I keep a song list with me for jams. For convenience I just tuck it into the gap between the Gard and the back.

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## billkilpatrick

> ... I keep a song list with me for jams. For convenience I just tuck it into the gap between the Gard and the back.


v-e-r-y g-o-o-d ... !

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## Paul Busman

> I have two of them


Does that make your mandolin TWICE as loud? :D

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## Gary Watkins

> Does that make your mandolin TWICE as loud? :D


It sure does. I'm surprised that you didn't know that. :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Whistling:  :Grin:

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## Bob Bronow

> Mine works just fine. Here are a few pictures of the Tone-Gard and the arm rest.


Thanks Gary and George. Looks like a Tone-Gard has just risen to the top of my list!

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## backwoodsborn10

we spend  thousands to get a mando with great tone and VOLUME. put off buyin a toneguard for years cause 75$ was too high?? finally broke down and got one...should have spent less on mando and bought tone guard earlier..... you might see my mando up for sale......but not my toneguard. :Wink:

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## Paul Busman

I took my TG equipped mandolin to a session last night for the first time and it was amazing how well it stood up to the other instruments.  I'm a very happy camper.

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## Michael Cameron

I have two TGs for mandolin;and,one each for a soprano and concert ukes.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Well,i'm naturally sceptical of things like 'Tone Gards' & 'Blue Chip' picks & the claims made for them - or maybe i'm just 'cheap minded' (yeah ! that's it). However, a fellow 'Cafe member in Scotland,has recently bought a new Mandolin & is awaiting the delivery of one of each of the aforesaid items. Now i know the principle behind the tone guard ie. moving the back of the Mandolin away from our bodies to allow it to vibrate properly,so,yesterday whilst _sitting_ noodling around,i pushed the Mandolin away from my body & was somewhat amazed at the difference in volume. Now i normally play,holding the Mandolin at 45 degs.to my body,this keeps _most_ of the back well away from me,but holding the back 'totally' away from my body, did produce a _significant_ increase in volume, much to my amazement,& much more so than i'd have thought.
 So,the bottom line is do i buy a tone guard or not ?. The one thing that puts me off, is that the only time i fitted anything to a Mandolin of mine,namely an armrest,caused some damage. Also,i know for certain that my Lebeda which is a really snug fit in my Travelite,due to it's being a bit larger than average,wouldn't fit in the case with a Tone Gard fitted unless i crammed it in - not a good thing. My Weber Fern,which now resides in my TKL case would take one for sure,with no problems.I just need to know more about the way the things clamp on.
   So,it looks as if you Tone Gard users hit on something that's taken me a while to realise,& truthfully,i _was_ amazed. I think i'll wait until our Scottish colleague gets his & then ask a few questions -mmmmmmm !!??. Maybe it'll be a Blue Chip pick next !!, :Confused: 
                                                                                                                                                                 Ivan :Mandosmiley:

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## Malcolm G.

Just bought my third - a used Sunrise from Cafe Member Don C. 
I have ordered two from G.Ruben Audio in the past - great fellow to deal with by the way.
Would not be without one on any of my mandolins.
Probably the most significant single upgrade you can do.
Yea Tony!

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## Gerry Hastie

> I think i'll wait until our Scottish colleague gets his & then ask a few questions -mmmmmmm !!??. Maybe it'll be a Blue Chip pick next !!,
>                                                                                                                                                                  Ivan



I'll let you know about the TG Ivan.  The Bluechip pick is here and it's got the thumbs up! I'll be able to drown out the Bagpipes soon!

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## Brent Hutto

If my house caught fire and I could only grab one thing on the way out the door (i.e., because my right hand was already taken with my mandolin) I'd grab one of my two Blue Chip picks and leave the Tone-Gard behind. Or maybe the Wegen pick. But I'd return for the Tone-Gard sooner than I would that table with the wobbly leg that sits in the back corner...

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## Tom C

I took mine off.

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## Douglas McMullin

I have one and I use it from time to time.  I find I can achieve the best effect by just playing with the mandolin at an angle from my body without a TG.  It is harder for me to maintain that when standing, so those are the occasional times I pop mine on.  Even though I don't use mine all that often, I like having it and consider it a useful accessory.

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## AlanN

> I keep a song list with me for jams. For convenience I just tuck it into the gap between the Gard and the back.


And presto, a Tune Guard!

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## Ivan Kelsall

*Douglas* - That's how i normally play & i thought (still do), that it works _well enough_. But,when i did push the whole instrument away from my body,the increase in volume was most certainly there. I did the same again this morning when practicing & sure enough,the same thing. The stupid part about it is, that usually we hear the instrument best from the front,so if we push it further forward so we're _even more_ behind it, it sounds louder ??. It seems a contradiction in terms until you understand why.I never thought that the small area of the back resting aginst my body could have such a damping effect on the whole - but it does !,
                                                                                                                                                                         Ivan

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## Ryan Zerby

I'm considering one simply because I have so much belly to deaden the sound. I'm losing weight, but it will be a while before I'll be able to pull the mandolin from my tummy without getting a hunchback. My mandolin only cost $350, so it seems kind of strange to get a $75 addition for it... on the other hand, $75 is much cheaper than a mandolin upgrade  :Smile:

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## Brent Hutto

Mandolin bodies are so tiny they probably need every square centimeter of vibrating wood they can get.

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## billkilpatrick

my toneguard arrived yesterday.  it's like xmas around here:  new strings (j-75's - jury's still out about those), cumberland acoustic bridge and toneguard - all of which make for better tone.  another goody - one i hadn't counted on - is improved posture.  w/o the toneguard i had to suspend the mandolin away from my paunch to get full tone quality - causing strain on neck and shoulders.

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## Gerry Hastie

Got me my Tone Gard! Fantastic! C'mon ya bagpipes; I'll tak on the lot o yees!

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

> My mandolin only cost $350, so it seems kind of strange to get a $75 addition for it... on the other hand, $75 is much cheaper than a mandolin upgrade


I know what you mean. Mine isn't much more than yours and I'm on the fence as to whether to get one. The one good thing though, is that if I do get one and end up not liking it or finding it not making much difference in my set up, then you can always sell it and recoup some if not most of your costs.

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## Paul Busman

> I know what you mean. Mine isn't much more than yours and I'm on the fence as to whether to get one. The one good thing though, is that if I do get one and end up not liking it or finding it not making much difference in my set up, then you can always sell it and recoup some if not most of your costs.


 Play your mandolin for a few minutes, then try playing it again, but holding it a bit away from your body.  Hear any difference?  If you find that it sounds louder and fuller, then a Tone-Gard will be a big improvement, allowing you to hear that louder and fuller tone while holding the mandolin normally.

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## SteffeyGibson

will the tg damage the finish? thats my only concern

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## billkilpatrick

> will the tg damage the finish? thats my only concern


no - it's padded on all the contact points.  there are three flexible arms - right, left and bottom center - which will bend and expand as you slip the tg onto your mandolin.  go slow and you'll get a nice, even fit.

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## Bob Bronow

Mine came today. 

The verdict: A 75.00 Tone Gard makes my 350.00 mandolin sound like a million bucks!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Brad Maestas

> will the tg damage the finish? thats my only concern


The contact points are not known to cause reactions with most finishes. However, use on French polished instruments is not recommended. That finish reacts with just about everything so a few contact points might be the least of your worries.

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## Brad Maestas

> Mine works just fine. Here are a few pictures of the Tone-Gard and the arm rest.


Nice looking armrest, Gary. Who made it?

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## Gary Watkins

I got the arm rest from Steve Bell, here on the cafe: http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval

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## Brad Maestas

I was glad to see this thread and the mention of the Tone Gard + armrest as I will soon be buying a McClung armrest. It looks like there's plenty of clearance back there, even with an old one like mine. I have been using one on my Summit for 10 years. Before I got it I was finding myself hunching over a lot on gigs and any length of time in that horrible posture is just torture so I started looking for a solution. I had seen ads for them so I knew they existed but I hadn't yet seen one in person. Then Mando Fest came around and I met Radim Zenkl and Don Stiernberg and when we got around to the subject they had nothing but great things to say about them. I ordered one the next day and never looked back.

I studied classical guitar for many years. The issue is well known and pretty much from day one, it is confronted. Some classical musicians wonder why this has not been more of a priority for other musicians (namely folk musicians) and I think the first glaring issue is that many folk musicians do not exclusively play sitting down. I would posit that most play sitting down at home and stand on gigs. It's the standing part that is troublesome. Thanks to the Tone Gard it is no longer an issue.

Mine has shed some of its paint over the years but I like the way it has worn. I got used to it pretty quickly and now I don't even notice it. One of the pads has a tendency to come off every so often but I manage to realize it and put it back before it gets lost forever. The new ones are glued on which is nice if you never need to move them. It seems that the new ones also sit a bit more toward the headstock, giving slightly more clearance around the bottom edge which pretty much negates any need to move the pads so I think it's a great improvement on an already great design. TG FTW!

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## Brad Maestas

> I got the arm rest from Steve Bell, here on the cafe: http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/...uery=retrieval


Many thanks, Gary.

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## Yandy

Just got me a 'VintageGard' - same's a ToneGard but a whisker bigger to fit an ol' Gibson (available from Tony Pires directly).

Was willing to be unconvinced, but holding the instrument away from the body tests suggested it could work. It does, dammit, and amazingly well too. Once you've saved up the price, I can't imagine any instrument not benefiting. It's easily a saving on an immediate upgrade, and would still be around to upgrade your upgrade further when it happens.

Looks good too - almost invisible on the dark stain of an A-Jr. No case worries either - fits in a fitted Calton - just.

Recommended.

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## greg_tsam

Ordering one for me as we speak to complete my mandolin accessory trifecta.  This week I've also ordered a Blue Chip CT55 and a McClung armrest with a Texas lonestar inlay.  haha.  Never had anything but the necessities (a tuner, an internal pick up and a strap)  but after I've tried these products, and loved them, they are worthwhile investments to my musical journey.  But after this I'm pretty much done.  I think.

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## Fran

Well, I can see lots of enthusiasm and good comments about the Tone Gard (not Guard!) but I am not convinced it really makes a difference! (I can hear a huge rumour coming up...).

The main thing is, the sound of a mandolin is produced from the *top* of the instrument causing the air to vibrate in the body and outside. Unlike a violin, which has a soundpost to transmit the vibrations of the top to the back, there is no such thing in a mandolin (not the ones I have seen and used anyways). The back may vibrate and resonate as a result of the air being excited, but this would rather dampen the sound instead of amplifying it, since the wood will absorb the vibrations, unless both the top and back are in perfect synch and enter in oscillation (same thing that broke the Tacoma Bridge, or make a glass shatter), which is very unlikely to happen except for a very narrow frequency band and/or both top and back have the exact same mass and produce the same note and frequency when we tap on them.

I can understand using this device as a convenience gizmo to improve the playing position, or protect the back from wear and sweat, etc, but I doubt that it would make such a difference to the sound.

Besides, the vibrations of the mandolin will travel from its body to your belly through the Tone Gard, which is made of metal and carries vibrations better than wood!

Comparing the sound "before" and "after" the installation of such a device is extremely subjective, since most players are already convinced that the sound will be better based on the manufacturer's claims, and also because it's impossible to play the exact same thing the exact same way twice.

If it works for you, fine, but I would rather save my money and spend time in improving my sound through my playing. And this is free!

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## 250sc

Fran, 

Play your mando with the back against your stomach then move it away from your stomach. Can you hear a difference?

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## disguiseglasses

This has probably been asked already, but I wonder if the mandolin with the Tone Guard on it can still fit in the case? The case in question is a TKL A-style case.

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## SincereCorgi

> This has probably been asked already, but I wonder if the mandolin with the Tone Guard on it can still fit in the case? The case in question is a TKL A-style case.


Fits in mine, and I've got an MT too (I assume you mean the case TKL does for Collings). It's snug, but it fits.

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## disguiseglasses

Thanks!

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## George R. Lane

Fran,
I have one on my Weber Vintage A and it works great. I tried it on my Yellowstone F and couldn't really tell any difference. Now the Yellowstone is just a year old and the A is three years old. The A is X braced and tone bars on the F. Do the age and bracing make a difference, I don't know. I guess I will have to give the F a few more years of playing time and then try the Tone Gard again.

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## Fran

> Fran, 
> Play your mando with the back against your stomach then move it away from your stomach. Can you hear a difference?


Yes.  I tried that with the Irish zouk too. 

The difference is that with the instrument away from the belly, sound goes from the back of the instrument to my stomach and I can hear it. With the instrument against, more sound seems to get from the F or A holes! Different sounds... A bit like the open back banjo and resonator banjo.

Like I said, if it works for you, go for it! 

But when I play sitting or standing up I do not hold my mandolin with its back flat against my stomach anyways. The tailpin end is against my stomach and the mando is almost 45 degrees from my 'stomach plane', my left arm is put forward. So the Tone Gard would not make a noticeable difference.

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## 250sc

Understood. That type of stance makes the gard un-necessary but if you had the back against you rather than the tailpin there would be a difference in most instruments.

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## SternART

> Like I said, if it works for you, go for it! .


Worked for them:

# 1 David Grisman # 2 Ricky Skaggs # 3 John Reischman # 4 Chris Hillman 
# 5 Roland White # 6 Radim Zenkl# 7 Andy Statman # 8 Mike Marshall # 9 Joe Craven 
# 10 Don Stiernberg # 11 Paul Glasse # 12 Wayne Benson # 13 Will Patton 
# 14 Tom Rozum # 15 Eric Thompson # 16 Dix Bruce # 17 Dana Rath 
# 18 John Paul Jones # 19 Jason Dennie # 20 Emory Lester # 21 Alan Bibey

Might be something to this Gard thing?!    :Wink:

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## greg_tsam

Using the tone gard is the same thing as playing the mando without it touching your body which I find hard to do when standing or even sitting b/c I hug it between my belly and forearm.  Have you hugged your mandolin today?

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## Loretta Callahan

My Tone Gard arrived today.  It went on my F5 easy as pie and ..... wow!  The difference in sound took me aback, in a good way.  My flat top Big Muddy doesn't need any help with the tone, but my Washburn just wasn't projecting.

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## jschall84

Here is a question: does a Tone Gard make any difference to an amplified tone with a pickup? I wouldn't imagine it would since the piezo picks up vibrations from the bridge or top. Anybody have any experience with this?

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## Brandon Johnson

> Worked for them:
> 
> # 1 David Grisman # 2 Ricky Skaggs # 3 John Reischman # 4 Chris Hillman 
> # 5 Roland White # 6 Radim Zenkl# 7 Andy Statman # 8 Mike Marshall # 9 Joe Craven 
> # 10 Don Stiernberg # 11 Paul Glasse # 12 Wayne Benson # 13 Will Patton 
> # 14 Tom Rozum # 15 Eric Thompson # 16 Dix Bruce # 17 Dana Rath 
> # 18 John Paul Jones # 19 Jason Dennie # 20 Emory Lester # 21 Alan Bibey
> 
> Might be something to this Gard thing?!


Where does the dude named Chris Thile fit into this equation???

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## Barry Canada

I am thinking of purchasing a tone guard for my Collings MT2 V. There is one for sale on in the classified from Canada. Any one know if this would fit from the picture? It seems to be an odd shape or distorted from the picture angle.
It is more convenient  to purchas in Canada so we don't have to deal with customs.

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## Dave Cowles

They are made to fit universally, Barry. It should be fine, and you'll love it.

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## Barry Canada

Do I have to be concerned about harming the varnish finish on collings?

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## MikeEdgerton

If you're worried about the finish don't install it. Tony has a disclaimer that some varnish mandolins may be marred. Beyond that there will be a few dozen folks that jump in an say they have tonegards on their varnished instruments with no problems. I will say this. For the few points that may be dulled by the tonegard contact points the rest of the back will be protected from buttons and such.

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## Barry Canada

Will this guard also fit a 1917 gibson A2?

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## TonyP

That is an older v4, and only has 2 of it's 7 pads,

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## Andrew B. Carlson

I ended up buying the tone gard that Barry Canada was asking about. 

TonyP, should I look into getting a few more pads for it? Or can I fashion something myself?

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## Markus

> Here is a question: does a Tone Gard make any difference to an amplified tone with a pickup? I wouldn't imagine it would since the piezo picks up vibrations from the bridge or top. Anybody have any experience with this?


A side benefit to a tonegard with my K+K is that I get less `handling noise' from the mandolin rubbing my belly or leg [if sitting]. Or so it sure seems to me.

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## yankees1

I suppose it's the way I hold my mandolin but I can detect no difference in sound with or without the tone guard. I don't hold the back flat against my belly however. I wrapped the prongs with microfiber which is hot glued to the prongs and this has eliminated any marks from the prongs that grasp the mandolin.

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## Andrew B. Carlson

I wonder if mole skin would work. It's that stuff that's like suede cloth with an adhesive backing. I've used it on my feet when I'm hiking to prevent blisters.

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## TonyP

Mole skin is an interesting idea. The problem with the v4 round wire Tone-Gard was finding a good way to hold on the rim pads as round wire doesn't present much to stick to. As long as you pay attention to if you loose one, and replace it right away, I don't see why they won't be an ok fix. Might be a tad ugly, oh well  :Smile: 

 I used 7/64" vacuum hose(which is on the spring arms), slit on one side, and felt glued with super glue gel. Then clipped onto the rim of the Gard. Some folks seem to shed these. It seemed the right shoulder strap folks had more of a problem with this for whatever reason. I recommend with that setup, you place the hose/pad in the place you want it, and then pry the slit open and take a drop of super glue and put it in the slit. That will hold the pad in place, forever. 

Early on I tried hot glue and found it a total mess, with a poor adhesion. And with the new powdercoat finish it would be even worse. I also found out that the felt over time would compress, and the fibers that had gotten stiff from the glue, would poke through, and cause scuffing. Leather is far superior to any cloth or fiber/felt IMHO.  So, I went to the thickest leather I could find, and that seems to be the ticket. Also with the v5 square wire, I now have a good surface to glue to and don't have to use the hose anymore. 

As to the marking of clothing, this is because of the rubber on the arms, NOT the paint. I've found taking some 303 Aerospace Protectant(most auto parts stores and WallyWorld and I suspect others) and put it on a paper towel, and rub it into the rubber. let it dry before putting back on the mando.  I do this once a year. But in places with high humidity, or smog, it wouldn't hurt to do it every time you change strings, as part of your regular maintenance. If the rubber is too far gone, you can get it at any auto parts store, 7/64" vacuum hose. Then treat it with the 303 before install. Everybody should have some 303 as it's wonderful stuff, and non toxic. If you are using ArmorAll, toss it. It softens and eats whatever you put it on, where 303 preserves it. I use it in the car, and on my wife's convertible top. It's great stuff. 

hope this helps,

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## Andrew B. Carlson

I got the tone gard yesterday. It really makes the mandolin sound much better! One thing I notice though, is that there is no way I can leave it on in the case. It adds almost 2 inches to the back of the mando so it lifts the whole instrument up so it makes it scary to try to close the case. I thought I read that most people leave it on in the case?

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## MikeEdgerton

I'll note that all of my Tonegards are the new ones but they all fit in the case with no problems, Gibson, Flatiron, TKL and Calton.

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## mandobassman

> I got the tone gard yesterday. It really makes the mandolin sound much better! One thing I notice though, is that there is no way I can leave it on in the case. It adds almost 2 inches to the back of the mando so it lifts the whole instrument up so it makes it scary to try to close the case. I thought I read that most people leave it on in the case?


That seems a bit excessive to me.  Two inches???   I have a Breedlove OF and a Golden Gate shaped case.  With the ToneGard on it adds a total of 1/2' at it's highest point.  When I first bought the Breedlove it didn't fit in the Travelite case I had at the time, but that was *without* the ToneGard.  I got the Golden Gate case and it has plenty of clearance.  I keep it on the mandolin all the time.

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## Andrew B. Carlson

I thought it seemed a bit excessive as well. But I'd never used a tone gard before. I got it to fit in my other case. But it's pretty darn snug. For posterity, here's what it looks like. Keep in mind this is a used tone gard.



My new Red Bear for measurement reference. 



If you can't tell, the bottom of the gard by the strap peg is about 1cm off the mando. I can pivot it towards the top or bottom, but this was a good angle to use with the Red Bear.

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## TonyP

wow, that's been totally tweeked! That's not how they fit from the factory. Typical arch is between 1/4" and 3/8".

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## Andrew B. Carlson

So maybe some bending is in order. Or maybe my mando will be 4 times more resonant than everyone elses. Makes me wonder what the previous owners belly looked like.

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## mandobassman

WOW!!!   I've never seen one like that.  Was he trying to fit it on a bowlback or what?  I'm not sure how you would bend that to make it work.  All of the pads on the underside of the frame are supposed to be touching the bottom rim of the mandolin.  I would have to question the seller about that.  If I had received one like that I would have sent it back.

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## TonyP

I would wager this has nothing to do with a belly. By the amount of distortion of the Tone-Gard I think somebody sat on it, and smashed it. Then they tried to get it back in shape and had no idea what they were doing. Most times if it's smashed really bad, it's trash. The way you can tell(besides the arch being 4x what it should be) is the rim doesn't fit flush with the back. And when it's stretched, you can't shrink it back right. 

After you have 3/8" clearance, you have no gain in "resonance". Only the assurance it won't fit in the case, will feel like you're playing a bowl back and because it won't fit in the case, it will either get lost or sat on again. 

Good luck.

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## SternART

The Tonemeister speaks!
Andrew...buy a new one......save up if you have to.
ToneGards are the best bang for the buck in improving tone, 
best mando accessory of the last decade.

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## Mike Bunting

Support a local business, go into town, Myhre's Music sells them.

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## Malcolm G.

Andrew,

I have 4 ToneGards (3 mando, 1 Baritone Uke), and that's just WRONG! It must be hard to even play with that on in that shape.

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## Andrew B. Carlson

Thanks for all the help guys. I gave er a little love and she's pretty close to the way she's supposed to fit. 



Not perfect, but just over a 1/2" clearance now.

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## mandobassman

Does it fit in the case now?

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## Andrew B. Carlson

Yupp. It's a formed case so I had to push in the foam molded sides a little bit where the 3 arms of the tone gard are. We're good now. Still sounds great.

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## mandobassman

Mine's the same way.  I have plenty of clearance over the bridge, but the sides are a little snug where the ToneGard grip arms are.  I've been using it like that for two years now with no problems.  It actually helps, because without the TG it might be a little loose.  Glad you got that issue resolved.

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## Malcolm G.

"Not perfect, but just over a 1/2" clearance now."

Whew, that's a TON better!

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## neil argonaut

I've been considering getting a tonegard; however, when holding my mandolin away from my body, it seems to sound worse (and this isn't down to hearing it from behind, as I tried recording it with a microphone on front). What happens is a bassy thudding sound starts to appear somewhere in the region below 300 Hz. This is possibly caused by bad plectrum technique and if it is then it would be an advantage for a tonegard to make my playing sound worse for a bit in order for me to improve (if you know what i mean); It does seem to make the higher frequencies ring out more, but the bassy sound being produced more than cancels out this improvement. Has anyone else had this problem?
It's a reasonably cheap pancake i e army navy style mandolin, don't know if this would affect things.

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## Paul Busman

> I wonder if mole skin would work. It's that stuff that's like suede cloth with an adhesive backing. I've used it on my feet when I'm hiking to prevent blisters.


Replying to an old post, but I just gotta...
I wouldn't recommend moleskin.  The latex adhesive on the felt would eventually leach through and mar your instrument's finish.  I was a practicing podiatrist for 30 years, so I know all about moleskin!  Terrific stuff to prevent blisters as noted, but not for this purpose.

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## Steve Ostrander

But then you could play Moleskinner Blues... :Smile:

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aphillips

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## SincereCorgi

> I've been considering getting a tonegard; however, when holding my mandolin away from my body, it seems to sound worse (and this isn't down to hearing it from behind, as I tried recording it with a microphone on front). What happens is a bassy thudding sound starts to appear somewhere in the region below 300 Hz. This is possibly caused by bad plectrum technique and if it is then it would be an advantage for a tonegard to make my playing sound worse for a bit in order for me to improve (if you know what i mean); It does seem to make the higher frequencies ring out more, but the bassy sound being produced more than cancels out this improvement. Has anyone else had this problem?
> It's a reasonably cheap pancake i e army navy style mandolin, don't know if this would affect things.


That's an interesting question Neil. I've never heard of anybody's experiences using a tonegard for a flatback. In my experience, flatbacks are louder in general- know that my Big Muddy is plenty loud without assistance, but my carved-back mando definitely benefits from a tonegard.

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## TonyP

For this very reason, the first thing on the Tone-Gard website is the "test". Some people don't like the sound of that particular mandolin with the back freed up. And you can find this out before you buy. 

Flat back and oval is a recipe for lots of bass IMHO, and maybe it could be cured with a different pick or maybe technique. But in Neil's particular case, a standard Tone-Gard is NOT made to fit that mandolin as it's a different shape than a Gibson based instrument. So it would have to be a custom made Gard, which entails making a tracing of the body of the inst. and fabricating a Gard specifically for that instrument. 

With all that's been said, I would definitely advise against going down this path with this particular mandolin. I think it would be a waste of your hard earned $$.

How's that for a sales pitch  :Smile:

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## neil argonaut

> For this very reason, the first thing on the Tone-Gard website is the "test". Some people don't like the sound of that particular mandolin with the back freed up. And you can find this out before you buy. 
> 
> Flat back and oval is a recipe for lots of bass IMHO, and maybe it could be cured with a different pick or maybe technique. But in Neil's particular case, a standard Tone-Gard is NOT made to fit that mandolin as it's a different shape than a Gibson based instrument. So it would have to be a custom made Gard, which entails making a tracing of the body of the inst. and fabricating a Gard specifically for that instrument. 
> 
> With all that's been said, I would definitely advise against going down this path with this particular mandolin. I think it would be a waste of your hard earned $$.
> 
> How's that for a sales pitch


Thanks a lot; I appreciate your honesty, and will save my money for when I upgrade my mandolin, at which time a tonegard will be my first purchase  :Smile:

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## disguiseglasses

I purchased a used Tonegard from a gentleman via the classifieds last week. Consider me converted. I'll even sing in the choir!

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## MikeEdgerton

> I purchased a used Tonegard from a gentleman via the classifieds last week. Consider me converted. I'll even sing in the choir!


It's one of those things that you buy that actually works.

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## Kip Carter

Really?  They work?  I never would have thought they would be much of a difference. So, in what way do they work? Louder or do they actually do something beneficial to the actual tone?  To me it just looked like yet another gimmick that cost money and made the back side of the instrument look like trash. 

But I've been wrong before could be here as well.  If all it does is produce more volume then I'll stick to a good mic for that.
Kip...

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## MikeEdgerton

They won't work for you Kip, save your money.

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## MikeEdgerton

Anyone looking to see what a Tone-gard will do can find out without buying one. Stand facing a corner with your mandolin ready to play. Play something as you would normally. Next pivot the mandolin out away from your body and allow the back to vibrate unimpeded. Play the same song. Chances are you'll hear a difference. What the Tone-gard does is allow you to play normally and get that same effect. This isn't something that might happen, this is something that will happen. The only question will be do you like the sound of the more muffled back or not? Personally, I prefer the sound of the mandolin without the back damped. The next question is one that only you can answer. There is a small chance that the rubber feet of the Tone-gard "might" mar the finish in the three spots that it touches the mandolin. Tony has a warning for varnish instruments on his website. There are also dozens of testimonials on the Cafe from folks with varnished mandolin that say they've had them on for years without problems. I have small dull spots on my Gibson F5G (not varnished) where the feet sit. I could probably buff them out but really don't care. I bought the Tone-gard because it adds a dimension to the sound and I see it as a tool, as I see the instrument. if you're a person that needs to keep the instrument showroom pristine then you have a decision to make. The Tone-gard isn't something that might cause a change in the sound of your mandolin, it will. It is portable. I keep mine on all the time and it fits in my Calton case and the one on my Flatiron A fits in it's original case as well. There have been a few reports of people having problems with tight cases. I haven't seen that. A lot of pro players use them. A lot of people here use them. They work.

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## Doug Edwards

What Mike said. 
Pretty much sums up all the ToneGard threads.

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## Markus

Mike put it well.

Mine is not on all the time, as my family does not need to hear me practice any better than they do already.  :Grin:  When I'm playing with others it goes on.

I've found it useful when plugged in, without it sometimes I get clothes-rustling noise through my piezos. I've spent more money on a preamp to make my signal sound good than the tonegard, both do something for my signal plugged in.

I play a gig sitting. I can hold my mandolin in my lap so that the back is free to vibrate .. if I had extra brain power to do much beyond playing and trying to keep a stupid look off my face.

While ol' Bill never needed one [I do see him holding his mandolin out to let the back vibrate, not mashed against his tummy], I sure find it handy when all clustered around a mic trying to let the mandolin project instead of trying to force it with my right hand.

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## samlyman

Jeff: One reason to consider a tone guard for your Stiver is that the TG will hold the mando away from your belt buckle and protect the back from damage. Something to think about...

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## Miked

I went to a Mike Compton workshop a few months ago and this guy asks Mike what he thought of those "thingies" that people use, and he points to my F-9.  I've been using a Tone Gard for a few years and was sold on it from day one.  Anyway, I was surprised that Mike referred to it as a gimmick.  Well, I didn't pay for the workshop to debate Mike on the virtues of the Tone Gard, but his response seemed a little off-track.

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## disguiseglasses

Having played my mandolin with the Tonegard attached for several days and gigs now, I'll say this- it is indeed a gimmick, but not in the way that the word might most often be used. That is to say, that I don't mean "gimmick" as a pejorative term.

Before having the Gard, I would commonly hold the neck of the mandolin out and away from me, giving the back of the instrument the freedom to vibrate that it needs. This, however correct and "purist" it many be, created an odd posture for me- not to mention fatigue after a several hour gig (work those triceps, baby!). What the Tonegard does that I appreciate the most is to provide an easy, ergonomic way to play and get that extra volume, tone, resonance (which manifests itself as a sort of ineffable "that's it!" sound) without having to contort myself, etc.

Could I get what the Tonegard gets me without the Tonegard itself? Yes, mostly. Can an incredible guitar player get volume swells (tremolo) without a tremolo pedal? Of course- simply by rolling up the volume knob with one's pinky while also playing chords. It's the "tried and true" way of getting the effect and has been used by Page, Hendrix, et al. It takes work and a lot of practice to be able to do it and the guys that can are in a special club of "I Can!". They believe the pedal is "gimmicky" because it takes away the fine motor skill associated with that pinky maneuver- while also making their club obsolete.

Either way, it's been a fun experiment to have the Tonegard around and I always know that, if push comes to shove, I can get a similar tone to what the 'gard gives me without having one. But there is one more piece that doesn't get talked about in these discussions- the 'gard adds a really satisfying weight to the mandolin that I've been liking a lot. Don't ask me why, but I do. 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and carry that weight (Beatles reference, yeah!) and get back to playing.  :Wink:

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## rico mando

After much hassle I managed to get my tone-gard on ( hard making it fit over the bridge ).  the metal bars get in the way of my picking and strumming is impossible  and makes the strings buzz . does not sound better at at all ,what gives ?

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Paul Statman

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## Scotti Adams

> After much hassle I managed to get my tone-gard on ( hard making it fit over the bridge ).  the metal bars get in the way of my picking and strumming is impossible  and makes the strings buzz . does not sound better at at all ,what gives ?


Please tell me your kidding....please.

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## Malcolm G.

> After much hassle I managed to get my tone-gard on ( hard making it fit over the bridge ).  the metal bars get in the way of my picking and strumming is impossible  and makes the strings buzz . does not sound better at at all ,what gives ?


Oh that Canadian sense of humor!

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## Kip Carter

hmmmm Okay think you need to turn over the mandolin. That should help.

Kip...

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## rico mando

Well the gard protects from the stomach touching the back but I need an attachment to keep the moob from hanging down over the top

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## Kip Carter

> Well the gard protects from the stomach touching the back but I need an attachment to keep the moob from hanging down over the top


LOL!!!!! ohhh that hurts soooo bad!!  

Kip...

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## Barry Wilson

I think some of us need a tone guard on the front to protect listeners hehe... (my hand went up involuntarily for some reason)

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## Bill Baldridge

A tonegard will not do you any good if you hold your mandolin like a machine gun or the back of your mandolin is made of cement; otherwise, buy one.

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## rico mando

> A tonegard will not do you any good if you hold your mandolin like a machine gun


I do that a lot at jams if I need volume over the 6  guitars . with a tone-gard I will not have to

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## greg_tsam

My tonegard has found a happy home and I really like it.  I can play with my mando extended and have for years but the TG makes it so much easier.  Now I can hug it all I want and still get the sound and volume of an extended posture.  Definitely makes it easier and more convenient.  The only drawback is with my K&K pup, McKlung armrest and my ToneGard installed my mando is easily double it's original weight.   :Frown:   Still, it's not that heavy and I can always use my strap.

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## Brutus1999

@ ricomando --

You obviously put the ToneGard on incorrectly.  You are supposed to put it over your face when you are crouched behind the batter so if the batter foul tips the ball, you don't get hurt !  And the sound you make when the ball hits the ToneGard on your face resonates longer and with more vibrato than the sound you would make if the ball hit you directly on the nose.  

Personally, I don't play baseball much anymore, so I just hang it from the top of the headstock and let it resonate in the air when I'm playing.

I did try it once on the back of my 1917 Gibson A but all it did was make it sound louder and richer with more sustain.  For real -- in other words, "what most everyone else said...."

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## lazydog

Yup, the Tone Guard works. The sustain of my Yellowstone is even more amazing and the tone is so much clearer and richer with bonus points for keeping the back of my Yellowstone dry on those hot sweaty days. Was worried about an ungainly increase in profile which would make it awkward to play and the need for a new mando stand... but the profile is very slim and easy to adapt to and no need for a new mando stand. In all a great product!

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## fatt-dad

for the record. I thought it'd likely be an unnecessary accessory at best.  I was wrong.  I love it.  A lot!

f-d

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rico mando

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## mandograndad

I, too, now have a McClung armrest and a Tone-Gard.    The additional weight doesn't seem to have any affect on me, and the TG does have an additional benefit that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.    I sometimes have an upset stomach, and - without the TG - may mando amplifies some pretty embarrassing sounds.    My only question is: "Has anyone experienced any finish damage due to the TG?"     So, far, I haven't, but I just don't like the looks of a hunk of metal sitting on top that gorgeous flamed maple back.   'Course, I worry 'bout EVERTRHING.

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## Drew Egerton

After reading this and the many other ToneGard threads, I decided I am going to give it a try on my Flatbush V4. I feel like I can really tell a difference in holding it away, but I typically play with it pressed pretty close against me and find holding it out to be awkward.
Tony put it in the mail today so I hope to report back good things next week!


Drew

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## Paul Statman

> I have two of them


 :Disbelief:  How did you get the second one on there?

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## shortymack

Maybe one is for BBQ'ing fish.

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## Drew Egerton

Just to follow up on my previous post, I received my ToneGard on Tuesday and the Vintage fits like a glove on the Flatbush V4. I have spent a few hours playing with it and can definitely tell a difference in the overall sound. This mandolin had plenty of volume before, but I think it has a touch more now so I can play a little lighter. The biggest difference to me is in the sustain of the notes, as well as additional bark in the chop. The bass end is especially noticeable, presumably because I held that side tighter against me before. I also enjoy the extra weight on the body.

For the relative price of about 1.5% of the cost of the mandolin, I think there is definitely more than that percentage improvement in overall sound.

Thanks to the Cafe for all the great input I found in searches.

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## AnitaM

I've been considering purchasing a TG, but I have an Eastman MD305 which has a delicate finish and am wondering if it would mar the finish.  Anyone out there using a TG on an Eastman with the satin finish?

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## fatt-dad

I just don't quite think the satin finish is "delicate."  Rather I think the non-polished look a touch basic.  Don't get me wrong, I spend my money on sound, so, basic is fine by me.  I mean if you had a high-gloss varnish, I'd consider that delicate.  That said, I use a Tonegard on my Cohen (varnish) and also my old 1920 Gibson A3.  I love them and could care less if they leave a mark. They don't though. . .

f-d

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## Mike Bunting

Eastman finishes are no more delicate than many others. I've used a TG on a varnished finish with no problem for a number of years now and for what it's worth I recently removed an armrest that has been on that same mandolin for three years straight and there are no signs of it marring the finish.

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## AnitaM

Thanks for the replies; however, I get the feeling that you're not familiar with the satin finish that Eastman uses.  I've already inadvertently scratched it as well as my luthier - who said that he's never scratched a finish before.  There is no varnish on this mandolin and even Eastman themselves have told me that the finish is very delicate.  I haven't yet decided if I will keep this mandolin or use it to trade up at some time in the future, so would like to know if I should expect a TG to potentially mar the finish.

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