# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

## Mandolin Cafe

Gibson Style H-5 Mandola, 1924, serial no. 74871, Virzi Tone no. 10025, the label dated January 7, 1924, and signed by Lloyd Loar, with original case.

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Charlieshafer, 

dchernack, 

Hendrik Ahrend

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## danb

Undocumented, and a new signature date..

It has an h4-style pickguard and tailpiece, though the bracket is a screw-in type like a typical loar (triple binding style).. This H5 appears to be single-bound too.

Rybka is a well-known name (see F5 75709.. last seen by me with Tony Williamson who might have a bit of insight on this H5?

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William Smith

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## danb

That's 299 Loars. I feel we need to find another  :Smile:

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Bernie Daniel, 

Glassweb, 

Timbofood

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## Lynn Dudenbostel

Dan... does it look like it only has a single layer of cream colored binding (no black and white line)?  Also the only other flowerpot mandola I've seen is Dawgs.  His has the single layer of binding as well and is a 1923.

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## CWRoyds

The original owner of the instrument picture seated on the left. 
Photo from www.realgroovemusic.org  (cleaned up slightly by me).

"Pictured right: The Rybka Imperial Mandolin Orchestra, Portland, OR circa 1925. #Seated, left, with the round glasses holding the K-4 Mandocello is Joseph F. Rybka; seated, center, #Charles Kruger, holding the Rybka Gibson F-5 signed Feb. 18, 1924"

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## danb

I think that this picture shows that the H5 had an H4 pickguard as early as 1925..

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## danb

> Dan... does it look like it only has a single layer of cream colored binding (no black and white line)?  Also the only other flowerpot mandola I've seen is Dawgs.  His has the single layer of binding as well and is a 1923.


Yes- it does look that way to me.. but I'm just going on the same pictures linked above.

72663 (no pictures) is the only one earlier than this one- that must be the one you mean

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## William Smith

I'm no Loar expert but Know some things and have a passion for 30's Gibson mandolins, for all the oddities that exist with them.  I seen this H-5 a few days ago through the auction house email I receive and Gbase. I seen what Dan remarked with the style 4 guard and cover but didn't notice the binding. Also the flowerpot and date hit me right away as different most all H-5's are fern's. Also I knew the name of the Mandola's owner/orchestra cause of the archive and of course what was mentioned about Tony W. recently having the F-5 up for sale. "I sure looked at the F-5 enough" Looks like a well loved played in H-5 to me that someone lucky will buy!
  So the count is 299 now? Has there been pix and info on that almost unbelievable 20 dollar Loar F-5 yet from the San Jose flea market? I seen the serial # was mentioned.
 I was talking with David Harvey the other day on the phone and just saying to each other there are still missing Loar and 30's F-5's and such out there also some known F-4's that matched 1 Loar F-5 for sure with a double case that a well known builder could've bought but declined years ago and hasn't surfaced yet. Also that nice 38 F-5 that surfaced at Retofret that he just did a neck set on.
 They are still out there and being found and that's just a great preservation of musical history. It's a wonder how many have been lost to fire etc...I know one 1925 F-5 that suffered the dreaded house fire tragedy recently so that one should be mentioned in the archive as "gone" Terrible! Thanks always to the mandolin café/ Dan B. and other forum individuals for the work they do here on the preservation of knowledge on these instruments we all love and enjoy playing.

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Hendrik Ahrend

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## Spruce

> Has there been pix and info on that almost unbelievable 20 dollar Loar F-5 yet from the San Jose flea market?


Yes, here tis'....
No pics as of yet, but I've seen some...




> Looks like a well loved played in H-5 to me that someone lucky will buy!


I _love_ seeing honest wear like that...what a cool looking instrument...

_"Estimate:
$35,000 - $55,000"_

Can someone school me on Loar mandola prices??
I thought they were indeed changing hands for 50K or so, but I've seen several lately in the 100K range...?
Just curious what they go for in relationship to the F5s...
Thanks!

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RichieK

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## mrmando

Speaking of instruments from Portland, is Ken Culver's Loar documented among the 299?

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## mrmando

> Yes, here tis'....
> No pics as of yet, but I've seen some...
> 
> 
> 
> I _love_ seeing honest wear like that...what a cool looking instrument...
> 
> _"Estimate:
> $35,000 - $55,000"_
> ...


Well, here's one on sale for $75K 
http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Gibs...1924-1924/3431

And this one's still at $105K 
https://cartervintage.com/products/1...nt=20352287363

Skinner's premium is 23% on the first $100K, so if the gavel price meets the top estimate of $55K, the buyer will pay $67.65K — still a bargain.

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...Also the only other flowerpot mandola I've seen is Dawgs...


Funny you should mention that mandola, I do believe I was with the gentleman that sold that mandola to David tonight.

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## Dawg

> Funny you should mention that mandola, I do believe I was with the gentleman that sold that mandola to David tonight.


Methinks not friend. That gentlemen passed away years ago.

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carleshicks, 

Jess L., 

Mandophile

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## goaty76

> That's 299 Loars. I feel we need to find another


I could give you 300 if you want. It's a pretty interesting one too. 

Phil

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carleshicks, 

RichieK

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## f5loar

There are quite a few Loar numbers that were sold to owners before the start of the F5Journal and those owners either don't know about the F5Journal or they simply don't want anyone to know what it is they own.  This new number, signed on a date not found on a Loar before, does open up a possible new batch of Loars, but it's likely just a one off and sure shows signs of being a proto-type H5.

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Timbofood, 

William Smith

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## carleshicks

> Methinks not friend. That gentlemen passed away years ago.


How cool is that, Mr. Grisman called you Friend.

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fentonjames, 

MikeEdgerton

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## danb

> I could give you 300 if you want. It's a pretty interesting one too. 
> 
> Phil


nice, please send me a message

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## MikeEdgerton

> Methinks not friend. That gentlemen passed away years ago.


OK, must have been another instrument you bought many years ago. I hadn't seen this gentleman in many years. I believe this sale was arranged by Charlie D.

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## dang

Dawg keeps up with the cafe on the road!!!

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## William Smith

> There are quite a few Loar numbers that were sold to owners before the start of the F5Journal and those owners either don't know about the F5Journal or they simply don't want anyone to know what it is they own.  This new number, signed on a date not found on a Loar before, does open up a possible new batch of Loars, but it's likely just a one off and sure shows signs of being a proto-type H5.


 Very true, I told my Uncle Gene Johnson who has the first known # F-5 of the feb 18th 24 batch that his was in the archive-he said he didn't know about the Loar archive. His Loar came from Rochester and was from a Mandolin Orchestra player, his name still graces the nickel truss rod cover, my point is I for sure agree that some don't know or don't want them to be known! Also there may be a Loar F-5 that matches this date on the H-5 that went to that orchestra? Strange it would be a one off date but Gibson anything was possible. also I know of 2 for sure F-5's from the 30's that are not in the archive.
  I just think all this is KOOL after almost 100 years these almost mythical instruments are coming out of the woodwork-And I'm a gambling man and there will be more to come! Hey I have a 24 tenor lute that's not listed in the archive, Also some prewar F-7's and a rare 1935 F-12 that's not listed in the archive. And that's just little ole me, there are others!

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## Jeff Mando

I agree, people have been hoarding instruments long before the internet.......I'm sure there are more out there.

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## MikeEdgerton

Perhaps we could count the one discussed *here* as two  :Smile:

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## Spruce

> Hey I have a 24 tenor lute that's not listed in the archive....


Have Mr. Vessel convert it, and you'll have yourself one fine mandola....   :Disbelief:

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RichieK

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## William Smith

Already spoke with him, may keep original and get one from buddy Ken Waltham that's done already. I've spoke about getting one of his "Loar Tribute's" like the last one I drooled and frothed at the mouth, chomped at the bit etc... Just been on the wait to see if a deal goes through so I can send him some $$$.

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RichieK

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## MikeEdgerton

I think Bill Halsey did Ken's if I recall.

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## mandotool

Anybody got a link etc.. to sound or video of Ken's Lute conversion?..

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## Timbofood

> I think Bill Halsey did Ken's if I recall.


And you would be correct, pal.


I called him pal! :Grin:

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## MikeEdgerton

I'm getting a lot of love these days  :Cool:

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RichieK

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## MikeEdgerton

Another question regarding the total number of Loar's documented, is *this* one included?

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## RichieK

Definitely 2 killer Tenor Lute to mandola conversions on Reverb.com...

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## MikeEdgerton

> Definitely 2 killer Tenor Lute to mandola conversions on Reverb.com...


Both apparently owned by the gentleman mentioned above. It appears Ken had a second one done.

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## Timbofood

Yo, buddy...
I can’t get to the tenor lute!
Never mind, I sorted it out, looks like several pieces are moving on to another owner...
Time marches on.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Yo, buddy...


What have you done with the real Timbofood?

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## Spruce

> Anybody got a link etc.. to sound or video of Ken's Lute conversion?..


_<Using the Forum to link to an individual that has been permanently banned from the Cafe for unethical dealing violates our posting guidelines. There will be no further warning in regard to this. It would be wise to get the discussion back on track.>_

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## Jess L.

> 


The label *ink didn't fade?*  :Confused:  Is that normal? 

Or has the photo been Photoshop-enhanced to bring out detail/contrast so people can read the label better? 

I have no clue,  :Whistling:  I've only seen (and played for a few minutes) one real Loar in person, back when they were selling for only a few thousand bucks, don't recall what the label looked like. 

I did used to own a bunch of other old instruments from the late 1800s and early 1900s, usually anything regarding a label was faded and/or dusty, not fresh looking. 

But I suppose a Loar kept in a case away from UV light and whatever else makes inks and pigments fade, could result in labels that appear newer for longer than usual?

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## William Smith

Posted above regarding the Loar Label and looking like a new signature/enhanced by man or computer, maybe? It does look brilliant  for the H-5's wear, I'm sure the experts on them could chime in but it's a for sure different looking substance used on the Loars/ other Master Model 20's Gibson's than the stamped serial # ink that was used during and after that were used. That stamped ink really fades over time. I've had a few with the serial # completely gone and lost to history. Bummer. It has to be a different kind of pigment?

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Jess L.

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## Timbofood

> What have you done with the real Timbofood?


He sleeps with the fishes! But, will return in My Corner, My View....

The variation in the ink can (may) be attributes to storage, ink of the period was more fugitive than most modern inks, if the label has been in a closed case, it may well not have faded as much as some others.  
Not claiming this is the case here but, it might just be normal irregularities in the pigment or uneven light fade.  I still use a fountain pen from time to time and I have seen pigment variability first hand, this seems a little radical but, that doesnt raise any flags for me.
Stamped inks are very different from pen inks this is most likely a dipped desk pen, not even a fountain pen. Ink load in a dipped style pen will often start out much heavier due to initial pressure on the nib.

(What can I say, I sold art materials for twenty some years!)

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Jess L.

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## Hendrik Ahrend

> The label *ink didn't fade?*  Is that normal?


It may be quite normal: 
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/image..._signature.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/image...signature2.jpg

Is this a different fountain pen?
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/image..._signature.jpg

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Jess L., 

William Smith

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## Timbofood

I think the pen used in the last label that Henry just posted IS a different one from the first two examples he shared.
Keep in mind, fountain pen points can, and do, wear.

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Jess L.

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## dhergert

Yes, and while ballpoint pens were available as early as the late 19th century, they weren't really reliable or popular until around WW2 (Briome/Brio)...  I could imagine Loar may have tried one out at some time or another, but I'd be surprised if he used them on F-5 labels.

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Jess L., 

William Smith

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## Jess L.

To: bluegrasser78, Timbofood, Henry Eagle, and dhergert: 

*Thank you* for the label/*ink* info!  :Mandosmiley: 

(I'm thanking you all here in this post, in addition to the usual "Thanks" buttons, because it seems like a lot of people nowadays view this site using "Mobile view" which doesn't show who's been thanked. At least that's how it is here, which is one of the reasons I seldom use the Mobile view but that's another topic.)

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## William Smith

Wow, no clue what Mobile view is-Not even 40 and I still feel like I'm in a time warp! Tech has passed me by or I've just don't care for it that's the truth of the matter! But thanks. Pencil was used a lot for serial#'s pre-Loar right, I've had some but no longer, I recall an F-2 from 1914 I had but can't remember if it was pen or pencil? I could look in the archives I guess. 
  I figured roller ball pens were 50's vintage, guess I was wrong, I'd imagine the first ones were rather sloppy.
  Thanks Henry for showing the Loar sigs. with obviously different ink, the certain day's he signed labels he just used what was there!
 Love history speculation or just to speculate back on the future :Cool:

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## Timbofood

You know Henry, I think they are all different pens. The line weight is different in the first two and the nib shape on the third is much more reubenesque.  In the first two the line edge is very crisp, possibly a dipped pen with a very new crow quill style pen.
The third looks, to me, much more like a fountain pen.

Roller ball pens came along with the advent of gel type ink. Late 60s if memory has not left the building...

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Hendrik Ahrend, 

William Smith

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## goaty76

I think we can now officially stop discussing Loar. We are down to "What pen did he use?".

I say this in jest...keep on with the conversation.  

Phil

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## goaty76

In a past thread I referenced that some very early (prototype?) examples of style 5 instruments seemed to have been photographed with unbound pickguards. https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...guard-Anomaly&

With the unbound guard and single binding what are thoughts this might be an earlier instrument than it says on the dated label. Perhaps one that was made then a label added later when it was finally sold. These were super expensive instruments of the day and mandolas of this quality were probably not too high in demand. It could help explain why no others with this date have popped up. 

Phil

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William Smith

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## Jeff Mando

> I think we can now officially stop discussing Loar. We are down to "What pen did he use?".
> 
> I say this in jest...keep on with the conversation.  
> 
> Phil


 :Wink:  Actually, it is pretty good detective work!  These techniques are used in the autograph collecting world all the time.  Let's say you have a autographed photo of Rudolph Valentino signed in Sharpie.......well, you can be certain that it is fake! (since Valentino died in 1926 and the Sharpie was invented in 1964 --thanks Wikipedia!)

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Jess L., 

William Smith

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## William Smith

I believe that all aspects no matter how small they seem to some are of major importance when discussing Loar signed instruments! Each one is different in many ways. I'd think the type of ink would qualify but that's me. Just like the FON#'s. Loar sat down on certain dates and well signed labels that went into the finished product AKA "batches" that's what I've been led to believe from reading.

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Jess L.

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## OlDanTucker

Waiting for someone to list "Lloyd Loar's Fountain Pen" in the classifieds.

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## MikeEdgerton

Loar was a renaissance man and an early adopter of technology like ball point pens. I still have the one he gave me the last time we met. I could never sell it. He used it to sign the menu where we had dinner that night. He did however stick me with the bill. He had the frogs legs, I had the veal.  :Cool: 

Unfortunately the Loar mystery gives rise to the ability to manufacture Loar memorabilia and questionable instruments and events. Such is life.

I imagine that the first ball point pens (like the first LED watches) were sought after and expensive before they became mass produced. The first LED watch (Red LED, gold bracelet and bezel) I ever saw was several thousand dollars and on the cutting edge. Within 2 years you could get one free when you bought a cooler.

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dhergert

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## Timbofood

Your comment about the old LED red display watches is fun for me because I’m a bit of a watch nut, pen nut, paper nut, art material in general, grilling aficionado, smoking devotee, all that kind of stuff.
I used to work with a guy who was selling that (Bulova, if memory serves) LED watch when first introduced, it had a specially fitted magnet which was needed to set the time! What a monster. I had two customers that had them.
The new throwaway LCD models are just fine but, I have an analog mind in a digital world!

How was the veal?

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## James Rybka

*NOTE  -  THIS WRITER IS THE CONSIGNOR OF THE GIBSON H-5 MANDOLA, SIGNED BY LLOYD LOAR (LOT 327) & THE GIBSON H-2 MANDOLA (LOT 328), BOTH OF WHICH ARE BEING AUCTIONED BY SKINNER THIS COMING SUN., NOV. 19 AT NOON.
*
Good day, everyone.  In reviewing this thread, I noted several instances in which the writers were, as danb put it, “looking for a bit of insight on this H5.”  All things considered, I thought that such inquiries were not unreasonable.  Accordingly, let’s see what I can to alleviate some of your anxiety about the provenance of these instruments.

Joseph Rybka was my paternal grandfather’s brother, making him my Great Uncle Joseph.  He was born in Blazown, Poland, on March 4, 1893, emigrated to the United States, arriving in the port of New York on June 25, 1913.  He moved to L.A., and at some point moved to Portland, Oregon.  In 1922, Joseph began organizing his orchestra, whose correct name is the “Rybka Imperial Plectrum Orchestra.”  I have two wanted ads from 1922 issues of The Oregon Daily Journal.  One ad indicated: “Mandolin and guitar players, join Prof. Rybka’s orchestra now organizing.  No expense to you.”  The other said: “HIGH class mandolin orchestra wants more mandolia and guitar players, no expense, instruments furnished.”  According to a 1923 issue of Music Trades, “This orchestra, which is the only one of its kind on the Pacific Coast, uses the finest of Gibson instruments,…”  Another interesting fact about Joseph’s orchestra is that Rudy Cipolla (who, as I’m sure you know, was a prominent mandolin player) was also a member.

My understanding is that upon Joseph’s passing, all his instruments were distributed among Rybka family members.  Ultimately, my Dad ended up with the two mandolas, and I inherited them from him.  In other words, I literally grew up with the mandolas.  There wasn’t a time in my life that I can remember, when the mandolas were not in my home, and I am 60 years of age.

I will try to provide some additional information over the next day or two.  Thank you.  Jim Rybka

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40bpm, 

Bernie Daniel, 

billhay4, 

Billy Packard, 

Bob Bass, 

Bob Clark, 

BradKlein, 

Brian Shaw, 

Clement Barrera-Ng, 

danb, 

dang, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

Glassweb, 

Jess L., 

John Lloyd, 

mandoblues, 

Mandolin Cafe, 

MikeEdgerton, 

mrmando, 

Randolph, 

RichieK, 

Rush Burkhardt, 

Scott Rucker, 

Timbofood, 

William Smith

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## Timbofood

This is one of the best reasons to be associated with this forum! 
Thank you Mr. Rybka for so kindly offering this information.

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## Bob Clark

Hello Mr. Rybka,

Fascinating history of your family and these instruments.  Thank you for sharing this with us.

Have you considered writing this up and placing it in the case of each instrument?  I am sure the purchasers will want to know this history, and I believe the written history should stay with the instruments for the benefit of future generations.

What a wonderful family legacy.  Do you play, or have you considered learning?  As you can see, it is something that many of us enjoy immensely.

Best wishes,

Bob

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## mrmando

Yes, I hope you'll make copies of this info available to whoever buys the instruments. 

There were various mandolin clubs and orchestras in Seattle in the early 20th century, so the claim about Great-Uncle Joe's orchestra being "the only one of its kind on the Pacific Coast" shouldn't be taken too literally. Gibson had contracts with music teachers all over the country: Gibson provided the sheet music and the teachers recruited orchestra members and sold them the instruments. 

In the 1980s and 1990s Ken Culver directed Portland's Mandophonic Orchestra; after Ken left town the group went dormant for a few years. Now it's back as the Oregon Mandolin Orchestra and going strong.

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## Timbofood

But, there was ONLY one bearing the name Rybka! 

Way to steal thunder there Marty!

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## mrmando

> But, there was ONLY one bearing the name Rybka!


Oh, well if THAT's what he meant ... then sure.

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## danb

Thank you James, very interesting to hear from you and thanks for sharing.

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Elliot Luber, 

Mandolin Cafe, 

MikeEdgerton, 

Scott Rucker, 

Timbofood, 

William Smith

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## William Smith

I have a feeling there will be more Loars to surface in the future. Even Post Loar F-5's up to the 40's. seems like every year for awhile now there is a handful or so that come out of the woodwork. Loars and F-5's. It's so Kool that they are found and integrated "with some $$" back into playing again. That's when History comes to life once again.

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## BradKlein

Sold! For $43,050.

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## mrmando

I think the listed sale price includes the premium, right? Divide that amount by 123% and you get a nice even $35,000. Quite a bargain.

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## William Smith

Wow that is a bargain 35G for a Loar H-5 that was in a known orchestra! Did anyone see the 24 Virzi F-4 in the same auction, In a rectangular green Loar case! I saw it too late or I would've bid, It went for around 7G? Case alone can go for that!

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## JFDilmando

The estimate was 35-55k, for whatever that is worth...throughout most of the auction, the guitars were going for more than their estimates.... some for considerably more.  The very pristine (cept for one errant pick mark) Loar H5 that is at Carters, has sat there for a couple of years at 105k.... H5's have a very limited playing public, so pretty much have to rely on collector market to realize their value.  That said, I would have thought this Rybka would have fetched more than it did.   The historical connection is so significant.  There are so few Loars that we know really who the original owner was... and in this case not only do we know who it was, but he was a significant historical mando guy.

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## Timbofood

I tend to agree, the provenance is pretty cool but, it does not seem to have a huge impact on value all the time. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don’t.

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## BradKlein

Buyer paid $43,050, not $35K, for what it’s worth.

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## mrmando

> Buyer paid $43,050, not $35K, for what its worth.


Right, I'm guessing that means a $35K gavel price plus the 23% commission.

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## dilmando

James Rybka had two mandolins from his uncle. This H5 Loar and an H2

Both sold in the Skinner auction.  This H5 is the gem of course, and now is the big brother of the “rybka” F 5 mandolin.  Nice to see that we have great documentation to accompany these two Loars

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Timbofood

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## Timbofood

It was always big sibling, does this mean they have been reunited under the same roof?
If so, that is really delightful! 
Group shot of the meet?  If it was a homecoming Im just minutes from the old homestead but, that old house aint what she used to be. But, theyre working on the chimney!

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## f5loar

It had to be most beat up H5 I've seen and I've seen a lot of them.  Odd that it would show this much wear from only being in classical hands, assuming it's not really been played that much since original owner died.  That should have had some effect on the price.  And face it, a mandola is a very limited market.  It was certaintly not in collector condition. Carter's H5 is his personal one and he really doesn't need to sell it.  One on consignment would go for less. He had a pristine one with no Virzi a few years ago with last price around $90K if I remember.  It did not sell and consignor took it back .  Gruhn also had Bernie Leadon's H5 for sale a few years back in the $100K range and it did sell.  It was the 2nd most beat up H5 I've seen.

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## dilmando

With ref to a recent thread concerning tortoise binding on a Loar war F2, I had mentioned that this Rybka mandola has similar binding , top and back.  I fully expect that when ordered, a Virzi was requested. As this is an early Loar mandola, there was no Virzi originally installed.  Therefore, the back was removed in the factory, the Virzi installed, the Jan7, Loar signature applied, and tortoise shell binding installed top and back.  
This would account for early build date from Spann, later signature, binding, which also shows in 25 photo, and evidence of Post build, preschool Virzi

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RichieK

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## goaty76

Nice detective work!

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## dilmando

Gaaaa. 
I HATE auto spellcheck.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Gaaaa. 
> I HATE auto spellcheck.


I believe I fixed it for you assuming that's really what you wanted to say.

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## Hendrik Ahrend

> With ref to a recent thread concerning tortoise binding on a Loar war F2, I had mentioned that this Rybka mandola has similar binding , top and back.  I fully expect that when ordered, a Virzi was requested. As this is an early Loar mandola, there was no Virzi originally installed.  Therefore, the back was removed in the factory, the Virzi installed, the Jan7, Loar signature applied, and tortoise shell binding installed top and back.  
> This would account for early build date from Spann, later signature, binding, which also shows in 25 photo, and evidence of Post build, preschool Virzi


I agree that Gibson took the back off to install the Virzi - and quite possibly the label. But since we have a flower pot, an early FON and a three-piece neck, I believe this H5 is probably just a very early example with 2-ply binding and unique (for style 5) pick guard, much like the the proto F5 #70281. Tortoise binding? Don't see any.

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## carleshicks

> With ref to a recent thread concerning tortoise binding on a Loar war F2, I had mentioned that this Rybka mandola has similar binding , top and back.  I fully expect that when ordered, a Virzi was requested. As this is an early Loar mandola, there was no Virzi originally installed.  Therefore, the back was removed in the factory, the Virzi installed, the Jan7, Loar signature applied, and tortoise shell binding installed top and back.  
> This would account for early build date from Spann, later signature, binding, which also shows in 25 photo, and evidence of Post build, preschool Virzi


I don’t see tortoise binding on this H5. I’m not sure what you mean.

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## JFDilmando

I am traveling at the moment but will see the Rybka Mandola after the holidays...I will get some pics of the binding a post when I see it again

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Hendrik Ahrend

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## James Rybka

Hello again, all - I just wanted to jump in briefly to follow up on my previous posting.

First, the purchaser of the Loar instrument has already been kind enough to reach out for me, and I will, in fact, be providing them with whatever information and documents I have relating to my "Great Uncle Joe" (man, how I wish I could have known my Grandfather and his brother - from everything I've heard, they were real hoots - kind of the "hipsters" of their era, if you will - oh, well).

Second, I've enjoyed reading all your posts.  The amount of detailed knowledge that you all have regarding these fine instruments is astounding. As you might imagine, I had very mixed feelings about selling these instruments.  The older I got, though, the more I realized that the best way to TRULY honor my Great Uncle and these instruments, was to get the instruments into the hands of individuals who have the knowledge and skill to really appreciate them and bring them back to life.  And the more I read your posts, the more I realized that I had made the right decision.  Thank you for that.

Lastly, to answer Bob Clark's question, yes, I have considered learning how to play a mandolin.  I've plunked around with guitars most of my life, and my son has also shown an interest in stringed instruments, so perhaps little bits of Great Uncle Joe are still floating around somewhere.  Who knows?  And after all, aren't we approaching the 100th birthdays of the Rybka Mandolin and the Rybka Mandola?  Hmmm..... something for me to ponder, I suppose.

Take care, and happy holidays to all.  Jim Rybka

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BradKlein, 

JimY, 

Timbofood

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## JFDilmando

As per promise I will try to post some pics of the binding which to me appears very tortoise ish.... judge for your self

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Hendrik Ahrend

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## William Smith

Very Nice, Real strange looking binding, very unlike the "tortoise type binding seen on some of the F-2's?" Can't believe how cheap that baby sold for, someone got a deal! NICE!
Also how about the 24 F-4 with virzi with a Loar F-5 green lined case that was in the same auction and practically given away :Disbelief:

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## HoGo

> As per promise I will try to post some pics of the binding which to me appears very tortoise ish.... judge for your self


That looks like oxidized finish (interaction with case) or starting binding rot. Or someone put some kind ofo wax or polish that reacted with the finish.

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Hendrik Ahrend, 

Timbofood, 

William Smith

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## Timbofood

Looks to me like it just needs a little TLC, it’s not tortoise binding, that makes no sense to me at all. Just discolored.

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## gh_mando

The binding on the "First Loar" June 1 1922 has the same discoloration. Gilchrist told me he felt it was caused by some type of solvent used to "clean the mandolin". The discoloration is not just on the surface, but is all the way through the binding.

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## William Smith

Back to the Virzi F-4 in Cremona with a Loar F-5 case-I believe this one was part of the Rybka collection! The quality and wood selection was topps! And being a 1924 it falls in line and well was sold with the other Rybka instruments! Vey interesting-I about had that F-4 bought but cancelled at the last second-Bummer!

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