# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Is this a Reputable Seller? Safetywoman67

## OkiePicker88

There's a seller on eBay by the name of safetywoman67 she claims in the description of the mandolin I'm looking at buying she's a Loar dealer and I'm wanting to know if anyone on the forum has done business with her and can vouch for her products. She has a nice Loar LM-700vs for $777 and I'm thinking about jumping on it but I wanted to make sure she is legit before I buy. She also says she has a store in Arkansas that specializes in mandolins if anyone has been here and can tell a little about it that would be great.

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## Scott Tichenor

That's a long-time well known authorized dealer of Music Inc. products, ie., The Loar, etc. 2642 transactions with a 100% perfect record.

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## Jim Garber

Whoops! wrong posting... sorry.

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## OkiePicker88

Has anyone personally done business with her though? I'm looking for a personal testimonial.

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## GreenMTBoy

I believe that is the person I bought a 700vs from a few months ago.
She treated me well ,her set up was pretty good ,she gave me a free set of strings ,good communications ,answered all my questions ,very friendly .
Hope this helps

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## OkiePicker88

it does that's just what I'm looking for looking for thank you GreenMTBoy!!

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## Perry Babasin

I have bought two mandolins from her. The first was one of the first Loar 500's, and the second was the derelict Loar 600 that I recently refinished. She is communicative and helpful. First mandolin was setup well and I actually liked it a lot. The second had no tuners, bridge or tailpiece, but it came out pretty well. That's it in my avatar! I would definitely buy from her again. I think she actually does understand and like mandolins like she states in her ebay info

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## houseworker

Clarinda also has a website for direct sales.  She uses PayPal so you get the same protection you would on eBay.

I've not bought from her myself but seen plenty of good reports.  It's important to realise that the majority of her eBay Loar listings are for seconds, which means that there'll be no manufacturer's warranty, just her own.  If I was planning on buying from her, I'd be more inclined to do so via her website, or by giving her a call.  Her website is quite clear on which instruments come with the manufacturer's warranty.

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## OkiePicker88

What's a 2nd? Would someone kindly explain this to me are they the same quality as The Loar's that come out of the factory? Will I get the same sound?

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## Jacob

*2nd*

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## houseworker

Buying a 'second' is generally a good way of picking up an instrument in pretty much as new condition for well under the normal new price where the instrument concerned has no more than a cosmetic blemish.  However, this isn't always the case and it's as well to recognise the potential pitfalls before making a purchase.

An instrument may get sold on as a 'second' because it suffered damage that has required repair, or because it was a prototype.  This recent thread involves a different seller, but also a The Loar being sold as a second that was almost certainly a prototype from several years ago, and the far from standard spec meant a distinctly unhappy buyer.

I can't see Clarinda listing a 700vs at the moment, although she did sell one earlier in the month that atypically attracted neutral feedback from a rather unreasonable buyer.

If you are specifically wanting a cut price The Loar, Clarinda is probably the best seller to go with, in that she does provide a pretty decent set-up.  But as you've come to realise, there are other options when it comes to cheap mandolins.  If you haven't already done so, make sure that you sign up for the Mandolin Store newsletter and you may pick up something in their next sale.

If you're not happy, don't rush to buy.  There's a steady supply of The Loar seconds making their way onto the market, and another one will be along soon enough.  Or buy one of the lower spec models like the LM520VS new, which would give you the full warranty and save you some money into the bargain just for forgoing some of the bling.

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## EdHanrahan

"Blem", for blemished item, is often a synonym for "2nd".  Per Jacob's link above, sometimes "a factory second will have failed quality inspection for cosmetic, rather than functional, reasons."  Especially true for fretted instruments.

Since you'll probably put pick to instrument in real life anyway (not to mention mike stands, beer, chips, and little kids), 2nds are not a bad way to go.

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## mrmando

I'm just gobsmacked at the thought that Clarinda can compile an eBay rating of 2647 with no negative feedback and someone still feels the need to ask whether she's a reputable seller.

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Bernie Daniel, 

Perry Babasin

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## Bluejay

Not everyone knows about ebay. Many on this site profess to never prowling there. Ebay is a great place to shop and you really can't beat PayPal buyer protection.

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## mrmando

> Not everyone knows about ebay. Many on this site profess to never prowling there.


That doesn't apply to the OP, obviously.

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## OkiePicker88

Well I just wanted an opinion from fellow mandolin players on her products/services. I'm not questioning her reputation per say but you never can be too careful and for $777 for a Loar LM-700vs I wanted to make sure this mandolin was top of the line in build/quality/and sound.

Should anyone be curious and want to check out the mando I bought (I don't even know if you can look at closed auctions) the ebay item or sale number whatever it is is: 161246352721

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## allenhopkins

> ... Ebay is a great place to shop...


_If_ you know what you're doing.  OP was new to the site and wanted some experienced viewpoints, which were duly provided.

Seems like a wise move to me.

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## OkiePicker88

Ok so here's an update: I bought the mandolin last Tuesday or Wednesday off ebay from Clarinda. She created the shipping label Friday and sent me the tracking information with USPS here it is Monday and I haven't received an email update saying it's left her place. Should I be worried here?

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## houseworker

No.  Just check the USPS tracking info.  It may not have even been picked up yet.

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## Eddie Sheehy

USPS usually don't update their tracking with any regularity.  It may well arrive before the tracking shows it's shipped...

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## OkiePicker88

I checked it. That must be what's happened I'm hoping I'll see something on it later this afternoon.

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## GreenMTBoy

USPS does not update their tracking info for some reason . Even on their 2 day Priority mail they will tell you there is still no guarantee that it will arrive in two days .This is why I like to use UPS or FedEx ,they scan the package in  and report it at every step of the journey.
Hang in there ,she's a good dealer ,it's on its way !
Tom

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## OkiePicker88

That's exactly what it was Tom 2 day priority I spoke with Clarinda just awhile ago and she said it has been sent so hopefully I'll get it by Thursday.

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## GreenMTBoy

Just look at the bright side in a few days your going to have a new mandolin !

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Violingirl

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## OkiePicker88

I have some great news it arrived this morning and it is an absolutely beautiful instrument in both look and sound!! if you want to take a look at it head on over to the picture section of the forum and you'll see it!!

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## PiccoloPrincipe

Fwiw, if you are requesting additional information on this seller or "personal testimonial" after what has been restated above from the actual  *site owner* "Scott Tichenor" :

"That's a long-time well known authorized dealer of Music Inc. products, ie., The Loar, etc. 2642 transactions with a 100% perfect record."

....then you obviously have little experience with online purchasing, and have no business buying online.

One could not want for more..You should purchase locally.

As someone who does sell valuable items via online methods, (not instruments) you seem exactly they type I wish to avoid.

Save yourself and this seller some trouble and purchase locally.

Purchasing online is very convenient, but it does require experience, and it isn't for everyone.

Actually, online sellers are often held to far higher standards and often are forced to deal with unrealistic expectations which your local shop does not, but I digress..


Regards

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mrmando

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## allenhopkins

> Fwiw, if you are requesting additional information on this seller....then you obviously have little experience with online purchasing, and have no business buying online...You should purchase locally...Save yourself and this seller some trouble and purchase locally...Purchasing online is very convenient, but it does require experience, and it isn't for everyone.


Unwarranted, IMHO.  OkiePicker bought the mandolin, and seems very satisfied with the transaction.  Had a bit of anxiety, wanted some reassurance, but after some advice from the "old hands," went through with it.  Good results.

I agree that local purchase has many advantages -- but it's not feasible for many people, who don't have dealers with a selection of mandolins in their area.  We all made our first eBay purchase at some time, perhaps with some trepidation that we were sending hundreds of dollars to a stranger doing business out of his/her house in a distant location.  Mostly these deals work out; most people are honest (really!), but there are exceptions.  Don't fault OP for asking for advice.

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bhahn, 

Charlieshafer, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

journeybear, 

kenikas, 

Loretta Callahan, 

Perry Babasin, 

stevedenver, 

Susan H., 

vegas, 

Zissou Intern

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## Paul South

I just purchased from this seller. Bought a the Loar LM 600. It was in very good condition and the set up was very good. I did make a few changes more to my liking on the set up, but she did a great job. She also included a new set of strings.

I bought it on the make an offer option. I sent her an offer that was kinda  low, I was afraid I might offend her. She counter offered $15 more than the price I had in my head and I accepted it. My money was kinda tight and I really wanted a 600. So I actually got the mandolin for over $300 less than any other dealer. 

She sent it very quickly and I still can't find a mark on it to make it a second. I'd buy from her again, but I'm gonna be happy for a long time with this 600. Hope this helps if any others are considering buying from her,

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## OldGus

She seems to play both sides, telling the customer how great they are but tell the company it's not good enough and has to be discounted, but hey, at those prices...

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## Paul South

As long as the buyer and seller are ok with the deal, guess I'm not too worried how she plays the company side.

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## OldGus

Yeah, I'm not really worried about it either, just saying you can only expect so much in quality and craftsmanship for a couple hundred bucks to begin with. The LM220 is one of the better 'The Loars' I've tried and they have nice Grover tuners.

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## Paul South

The LM 600 I got from her was flawless to me, I'd buy from her again if I had to. Don't see the need to buy for a good long time now tho

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## Petrus

> _per say_


Aaaargh!!  :Crying:

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## Petrus

> Buying a 'second' is generally a good way of picking up an instrument in pretty much as new condition for well under the normal new price where the instrument concerned has no more than a cosmetic blemish.  However, this isn't always the case and it's as well to recognise the potential pitfalls before making a purchase.



Unknown seller taking extreme liberties with the definition of "second" and "blemished."  :Grin:

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## mrmando

> She seems to play both sides, telling the customer how great they are but tell the company it's not good enough and has to be discounted, but hey, at those prices...


Not how it works. Most "seconds" are so deemed when they fail to pass a quality inspection by the manufacturer. (I suppose a few more could be sent back by dealers who find something wrong with them, but still, the dealers would have to send them back -- not keep them and try to negotiate a lower price with the manufacturer. 

Manufacturers will typically let seconds go in lots to a merchandiser that specializes in reselling seconds, and the dealers get them from this merchandiser. I suppose it's possible that some manufacturers handle distribution of seconds themselves, but I don't think it's typical.

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houseworker, 

stevedenver

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## OldGus

> Not how it works. Most "seconds" are so deemed when they fail to pass a quality inspection by the manufacturer. (I suppose a few more could be sent back by dealers who find something wrong with them, but still, the dealers would have to send them back -- not keep them and try to negotiate a lower price with the manufacturer. 
> 
> Manufacturers will typically let seconds go in lots to a merchandiser that specializes in reselling seconds, and the dealers get them from this merchandiser. I suppose it's possible that some manufacturers handle distribution of seconds themselves, but I don't think it's typical.


 She is obviously playing both sides, I don't feel the need to argue the obvious. Whether or not it is dishonest or where the mandolins are declared as seconds, or even if they officially are, has not really been proven but only speculated on. I had a LM500 I bought from another dealer on Ebay and it was called a second but wasn't marked as a second. I have talked with a guitar dealer who have told me they sent back a bunch of Gibsons for quality issues over the years but never one Martin. Anyone who has worked on an assembly line knows mistakes can get by potentially at any point so it is very reasonable to think a mistake could be caught on either end. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if a low end manufacturer in China wrote some mandolins off as seconds at a discount instead of taking them back,fixing,redistributing them. I admit I may be wrong but how would you know if I'm wrong and how they conduct business?

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## PaulBills

Our (my) local music shops, if they deem something a 'second', it's usually because there's a minor blemish in the finish of an instrument, perhaps a wee ding on its way to them, and they mark it as such, describe the blemish and cut the price...if you're not bothered about a wee stain or mark, it's well worth the money they ask

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OldGus

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## Petrus

> I had a LM500 I bought from another dealer on Ebay and it was called a second but wasn't marked as a second.


That would be to the advantage of the buyer. If it is called and sold as a second, you may get a good deal on something not otherwise marked as such. Might even be a mistaken attribution and not actually a second at all.  Certainly helpful when it comes time to resell.

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## mrmando

> Whether or not it is dishonest or where the mandolins are declared as seconds, or even if they officially are, has not really been proven but only speculated on.


You are the one who is speculating. 

You might want to spend a few minutes checking out MIRC: 
http://www.mircweb.com/

This is where many of the instruments sold as "seconds" on eBay are coming from. Notice that they're reconditioned before being sold to dealers, so if an instrument had a problem, that problem might no longer be evident after reconditioning.




> I have talked with a guitar dealer who have told me they sent back a bunch of Gibsons for quality issues over the years but never one Martin.


"Sent back" being the operative phrase here. Did that dealer claim that he or she "played both sides" as you accuse this dealer of doing? 



> I admit I may be wrong


Good.



> but how would you know if I'm wrong and how they conduct business?


The burden of proof here is on the one making the assertion, namely you.

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houseworker, 

stevedenver

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## OldGus

I was speculating from the start but based in facts pointing to a reasonable conclusion. At least I admit it, you asserted how they run things in your 'how it works' post, did you forget? This has nothing to do with MIRC, she does her own refurbishing as stated in her ads as factory direct. I admitted I may be wrong about her calling it a second for the first time once in the dealers hands but as the post following mine explained from another point of view, this does happen and I think it is happening. Not everyone thinks and does business the way it is on MIRC FYI...

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## mrmando

Ah, indeed, here's an ad for an LM520 that came directly from The Loar as a factory second, and for which Clarinda did indeed perform the repair work: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Loar-LM520-V...item2592ba64b4

It's still the factory declaring which instruments are seconds and setting the price for them. There's no evidence that the dealer has any control over those steps in the process.

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houseworker

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## MikeEdgerton

That is correct, the dealer has no say in what is or isn't a 2nd or blem model. The factory or in this case importer makes that distinction and to think differently is to think wrongly. You don't see any Martin 2nd's because Martin cuts them up at the factory with the exception of a very few they leave laying around for the employees to play in the factory. By that point there isn't a label or serial number on it. What Gibson does with American made seconds I do not know but I would assume they would keep them from hitting the market if for no other reason than to keep from diluting the brand. Gibson does allow their imported Epiphone models to be sold as seconds or at least they have in the past. I don't see how this eBay seller is doing anything wrong, she's simply selling a product that people are willing to buy. I'd buy from her if she had something I was looking for and wouldn't think twice about it.

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FLATROCK HILL, 

OldGus

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## Barry Wilson

My The Loar 600 came from her. It was a 2nd. The stock nut was toast and she carved a bone one and put it in. She was great to talk to about different models, friendly, gave good advice and I still have that mando... I just stripped the finish and it sounds even better now.

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## OldGus

I would buy off her also if she had what I wanted. I am not too worried whether I am right or wrong on this one because this is not the strongest point to be made or the biggest deal to me. It would be nice if she pictured the actual mandolin she is selling instead of a random select photos she uses. I just played another LM220 at the store and they are a great value, it had a couple of scratches and was only $200 with the good Grover tuners. We can call it a second but you really can't beat it for the price...

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## stevedenver

well, let me say, if anyone actually bothers to read the sellers individualized descriptions of each mando for sale, 
imho, 
if accurate 
she is forthright and ethical, disclosing in detail exactly what youre buying, what repairs or alterations have been done, and doing a damned fine job of informing a purchaser not only what they are getting, but what they are not-

In reading her ads I don't see where she is playing both sides.  She consistently praises the Loar.  And being seconds, they should sell for less.
And she's clear if the item is damaged, she'll replace it. Hard to beat that.



I have on several occasions, had USPS tracking indicate and item was delivered when in fact it was not. 

I understand this often occurs if certain receiving info is incorrectly entered either by the sender or the post office personnel.  

It's disconcerting because its difficult to explain this to a seller who only read the tracking info, when you have the first hand knowledge that its wrong.  On the bright side, not only can you call USPS and let them know of the screw up, and supposedly the investigate, but out of about six or so screw ups, only one never arrived.

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## Paul South

I stated in an earlier post that this is a great seller on ebay. I was kind of worried buying a mandolin online, but by reading her 100% feedback remarks and folks who said they would buy from her again gave me the confidence to do so.

She also has a return policy if something is wrong. But as she stated to me in an email I should have no worries because she doesn't send out mandolins that are not in great shape. The Loar LM 600 I bought from her at $310 less than what I saw at stores is in perfect condition as far I'm concerned. 

I also would buy from he againr for the savings.

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## Frank Russell

Good to see all the positive comments about this seller.  I just paid $320 for one of her 520 models, after a few rounds of "best offer" haggling.  Glad to hear her set ups are good, as there isn't a luthier within a hour of my town, and having recently moved, I have no idea where my old mando-fixing tools are.  Hoping for the best now, haven't bought a mandolin under the $1K range for years, spoiled by Givens and Collings level instruments.  Two boys under 3 years old means I need a "cheaper to replace" instrument that still sounds great to leave out to pick up when the mood strikes.  Hopefully this fits the bill.  Frank

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## Paul South

Last week I received my 2nd mandolin from her. The first was LM 600 the 2nd is a LM 220. For $225 on a brand new (I can't find any defects ) mandolin with a great set up, I can't complain. She is a very friendly, helpful person to deal with.

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## Gary Hedrick

> I'm just gobsmacked at the thought that Clarinda can compile an eBay rating of 2647 with no negative feedback and someone still feels the need to ask whether she's a reputable seller.


I have a positive 758 rating ....had one jerk from Italy that rated me negative even after I refunded his money and let him keep the merchandise ......I complained to Ebay and they fixed the issue for me.....so she likely has done the same thing if someone was a horse's *** to her.  with that number of ratings the old adage that there are more horse's *** in the world than horses would surely catch up with her....

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## Bernie Daniel

> I have a positive 758 rating ....had one jerk from Italy that rated me negative even after I refunded his money and let him keep the merchandise ......I complained to Ebay and they fixed the issue for me.....so she likely has done the same thing if someone was a horse's *** to her.  with that number of ratings the old adage that there are more horse's *** in the world than horses would surely catch up with her....


I'm surprised they even bothered to help you - - the only interest eBay seems to have in their sellers is to get their fee for advertizing and money transactions.  I realize that both sellers and eBay wants buyers so the environment should be buyer friendly -- but I think they have gone too far.  I used to sell on eBay but have lost interest in it -- I do buy a lot on it though.

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## Bruce Cech

I noticed in looking at her store that she has a couple of Revival Mandolins.  I've never heard of this brand.  Anybody know anything about them?

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## Frank Russell

My experience with this seller was pretty positive.  I wasn't thrilled with the unit I purchased (nothing too major, just some minor setup stuff, and I don't live anywhere near a good mando tech), so she called me at home, offered to take it back and send me a "better one," at her cost.  Replacement arrived today, she kept her end of the deal.  My only question, and it's really a little nit picky, is whether it's kosher to relist the first one as "never been sold," when it was in fact sold to me?  Other than that, I'd say she went all out to provide excellent customer service, at a decent price.  Frank

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Montana Mando

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## Jeff Mando

Frank, eBay has category for New as well as New (other), I believe to differentiate something from being Used.  I would say a return in mint condition might qualify for the New (other) category.  Possibly an item that was opened and removed from packaging and never used or a New Old Stock item, as well.  At least that is how I would interpret the category.

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## Frank Russell

Thanks Jeff, but I'm talking about her description, not the eBay category.  To be fair, I'm sure she just forgot to change "it has never been sold" when she relisted  it.  Looks like it's ending in a few minutes, and for a little bit more than I paid, so at least she will get a little of her postage $$ back from our exchange.  She definitely did right by me, I'd recommend her as a seller/dealer.  Frank

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