# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  4-string advice

## Bill Stokes

Hi y'all.  I'm new here, and somewhat timid to ask questions.  I've been looking around this wonderful site for the past couple of days, and have seen some terrific players.

I believe I've _finally_ arrived at the parameters for my ideal instrument: mandolin size, 4 strings, mandola tuning.

I know, this involves certain problems, or at least compromises.  But I want the thing to sound like a jazz guitar; hence the tuning.  I want to be able to play it very comfortably, hence the size.  (I'm a violin player.)  -sigh-  I already sound high-maintenance, and this is my _first #######' post._

Here is a video from this morning on my new mandobird.  It has intonation issues.  More about that anon...

http://youtu.be/PFfMyF9KMsE

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## mandroid

I have 2 CGDA tuned electrics 1 a hollow body , and the other solid..  Fun..

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## Bill Stokes

> I have 2 CGDA tuned electrics 1 a hollow body , and the other solid..  Fun..


Perfect.  What brands?  Do they play well in tune?  Do you order 5-string sets and toss out the E, or get custom sets?

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## thistle3585

I'd look at a 14.5" scale.  It gives you the capability of tuning it CGDA or GDAE with ease.  You will need to adjust the saddles accordingly but it isn't that big of a deal.  You shouldn't notice too much of a difference in playing it except that you'll need to use two and three finger chords unless you have very large hands.  Some builders may be able to shorten the scale a bit but then the C string becomes too sloppy to play.

Andrew

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## Ed Goist

Hi Bil:
Welcome! I am sure you will be able to find some great examples of what you're looking for.
Be sure to check-out the builders' page at emando.com.
Be sure to let us know what you decide on.

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## Bill Stokes

> I'd look at a 14.5" scale.  It gives you the capability of tuning it CGDA...


I definitely will.  Would you recommend a particular brand?
I should have mentioned price range.  I want to get something that sounds good for under $600 USD if possible.

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## Shelby Eicher

Hey Bil,
I'm in that world and here's a clip of my mando. 16 3/4 scale length which really helps with intonation. Since this video I have a new pickup which has improved it dramatically. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ0P9z3WtSM 
Shelby

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## thistle3585

> I definitely will.  Would you recommend a particular brand?
> I should have mentioned price range.  I want to get something that sounds good for under $600 USD if possible.


I only know of two, myself and John Smith, that build 14.5" scale instruments but that isn't to say that there aren't others.  I'd highly recommend emailing Martin Stillion at emando.com and he can track something down for you.  He has a pretty extensive inventory.

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## Soundfarmer Pete

Here`s a jazzy clip from Tom Sailor (hope you don`t mind Tom)!!!


14 1/2" scale but tuned FCGD...not far out.

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## Bill Stokes

This is so cool.  Thanks for the help, everyone.  I've exchanged emails with Martin at eMando, and Tom at Moongazer.
I may have to adjust my scale-length preferences a bit.  Shelby, that Rosetta chord melody is just delightful!

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## Bill Stokes

> 14 1/2" scale but tuned FCGD...not far out.


Would heavier gauge strings enable a 13.75" mandolin to play in tune with CGDA tuning?

I'm sure somebody has tried this.

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## Tom Wright

Many 5-strings have a 14" scale, as does my Ryder. C string works pretty well for me with .056. I use the bottom four (CGDA) for almost all chording and most melody. My 10-string is 14.25" (more exactly, 360mm), and the C's are strong enough for me with .047.

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## thistle3585

Ah yes, I forgot about Pete.  I didn't know he made a 14.5" scale instrument.  If you're talking to Tom at moongazer, ask him if he'll build you one.  He built this 14.5" scale for me.  Incredible instrument.

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## mandroid

> Perfect. What brands?


 1 is a 1off, made on demand, but not a continuing builder, A shaped standard 14" scale  ,
 the other was a Gibson A50, 
 I got already modified, a hole cut for a  3/4 \ 4pole stacked humbucker 'strat' format.

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## Bill Stokes

Shelby:



> ...Since this video I have a new pickup which has improved it dramatically.


Which pickup is that?

Bill

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## mrmando

Johnny Gimble somehow makes the CGDA tuning work at standard scale. Maybe that has to do with playing an archtop instrument and having some break angle across the bridge. With the exception of the Gregory Pentalin and its compound headstock, I've never seen a standard-scale solidbody that didn't have a floppy C. So I concur with the 14.5" advice. It'll be like playing a small viola.

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## Bill Stokes

Everything I've read on this site, plus some correspondence with Tom Morici, has me looking at the 15" mandola kit.  Maybe I can stretch out the fingers a little in exchange for the sound I want.

I'm very grateful for all of the advice and assistance here.  No doubt I'll be asking for more help...

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## Jacob

"Would heavier gauge strings enable a 13.75" mandolin to play in tune with CGDA tuning? 
I'm sure somebody has tried this."

Yes, I have, with mixed results. 
Heavier strings can reduce the "floppiness" of the low C.
However, if there is not adequate compensation at the bridge for the heavier string, it will not play in tune up the fingerboard.
The heavier string needs to have a longer vibrating length and may require bridge modification for this additional compensation.



Springs removed from C and G strings.

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## mandroid

Have an .050" C on mine, as I read, Mr Gimble did similar on his EM 150.

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## JonK331

I recently purchased a 5 string from Jonathan Mann tuned CGDAE in 14.7" scale.  I could not be happier with the instrument.  Jon is great to work with and I'm sure he'd be willing to make you anything you want.  http://manndolins.com/

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## mrmando

Mr. Gimble's mandolin is not an EM150...and is C gauge is surprisingly light ... .046 IIRC. I could look it up.

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## jlsmandolin1952

Andrew has hit the nail on the head. You really need that extra scale length, to be successful. 14.5 works out quite well, along with a few other little tidbits. This is just my opinion, but I agree with Andrew.
                                                         Thanks, John
www.jlsmithmandolins.com

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## thistle3585

John,
Good to see you back in these parts.  Hope all is well with you.

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## Bill Stokes

Hey y'all.  I'm butting in here to say I just received my 15" mandola kit from Tom Morici at Moongazer.  Been sanding on it for about an hour.  (NOW I remember the first rule of sanding: Get somebody else to do it!)

I'm very excited about this instrument.  Been practicing with the mandobird strung up CGDA.  I did some amateur adjustments (guided by information from Tom) and the bird is just about tolerable, but as everybody told me, that C string won't really tune right.

Back to sanding...

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## mandroid

A fan fret is a good thing .. the scale is longer on the low end , shorter on the high end .. 
 adding that 5th string it  really has a benefit ..

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## jlsmandolin1952

Yea, finally back at it Andrew. I'll be in touch soon. Hope all is well with you as well.
            Bill, LOL on the sanding. Patience Patience Patience!
                                              John

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## Bill Stokes

Here is my new 15" Moongazer Mandola.  Tom shipped it exactly when he said he would; it got here 2 days later.  That was last Thursday, and I got right on it.  I just love this thing.  Although, I'm heavy-handed with it; tend to push it out of tune.



Also there's something weird going on with the pots or pickup; akin to what Chinn mentioned in his thread.  (I saw a mention of reverse-wound Almuse pickups somewhere...)  Will sort that out later.  I'm having too much fun with this to get back into the wiring just yet.

This was the ideal choice for me.  The instrument plays real easy, feels good.

Thanks to Tom Morici!

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## Soundfarmer Pete

What kind of problems are you having with the pots or pickup please?.....
Also, what pickup?(can`t see because your hand is in the way)........sounds pretty nice to me!

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## Shelby Eicher

Bil,
It is a Seymour Duncan 'lil' 57 Strat pickup with a tele top (pole spacing) not using the 2 outside poles. It also has an Alnico mag wound to 7.5 ohms.
Cheers,
Shelby

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## Bill Stokes

> What kind of problems are you having with the pots or pickup please?.....
> Also, what pickup?(can`t see because your hand is in the way)


I ordered the "Classic" on Tom's recommendation for the best clean jazz pickup.  The sticker on it said Almuse MG4HC.

The pots dial backwards, compared to standard pots.  What would normally be all the way up, is off.  So, resting my thumb on top of the volume knob, with it set at the middle of its sweep: rolling my thumb to my left it goes quiet.  Roll thumb to my right (like I would normally do to back off the volume) cranks it up louder.  Tone pot works the same.

The 3-way switch works, but I'll never use it.  I'd sooner wire this thing to use both coils at full output, all the time.

I have looked around on this site, but cannot find where I saw something about a pickup with reverse wiring.  No slight intended!  The pickup is terrific.  Balance is amazingly even; I noticed how the magnets vary in size.

Possible that I screwed up the wiring (but I don't think so.)

It's a quirk, and not detracting from my playing enjoyment.  Like I said, I love this Mandola.

Side note: what to name it?  Briefly considered "Nelson Mandola," but that's too flippant.
I found out about the term "Mandoliola" recently!  Love it.
But since this is a solid-body electric, made in USA (except for pickup) I decided to call it a Mandoliana-dana.

Back to practicing...

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## Tom Wright

It is easy to reverse the volume and tone control direction. You move the wire on the outer tab to the opposite side, leaving the center tab wire alone. The diagram on the "Jerman Wiring Diagram" thread will be useful to compare with. The one on Chinn's thread looked reversed.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...wiring-diagram

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## Bill Stokes

> It is easy to reverse the volume and tone control direction.


Thanks.  I'll probably do that today.
Also, I ordered the "Moongazer" pickup; not the "Classic."
It would be fun to try them all...

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## Mandolyst

Hi Bil,

Your new Moongazer Mandola looks and sounds great!  I have been thinking about getting one like yours but I could not find any video on the web showing the finished product and what it would sound like.  Your video is the first I have found.

I was wondering if you are  using flat wound strings or round wound strings in your video?  Also, what approach did you take to put a finish on the body ( paint, stain, steps involved, etc.)?  Did you have to solder the wiring together?  Other than the Moongazer pickup, did you get any other optional features?

Any suggestions for someone just starting this project?

Thanks so much for posting your video...it was exactly what I was searching for.  Great job!

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## Bill Stokes

Thanks very much.  All I did was assemble the kit, so if it looks and sounds great the credit goes to Tom at Moongazer.

Funny you ask about flat-wounds.  I just put some on yesterday.  For that video, it has the round wound strings that came with the kit: C .050, G .038, D .020, and A .014.

My finish work is amateur to say the least.  I tried a walnut stain, but didn't like how it looked.  Black paint was plan B, because I had just finished a headboard with good results.  It's spray-can acrylic lacquer, topped with clear polyurethane.  The nitrocellulose purists can feel free to tell me I did it wrong, but my headboard came out looking like a grand piano.  Possibly due to the 75% humidity on the day I finished the mando, it isn't as glossy.  Oh well, I'm more interested in how it sounds than how it looks.

I did the soldering, but Tom has a pre-soldered pickguard option.  Only twenty-some dollars, and he will do it for you.  That's what I'll choose next time.

Like you, I looked around on this website, and saw nothing but favorable comments on the Moongazer kits.  When I got in touch with Tom, he answered all my questions, and patiently explained some elementary physics for me.  (I'm still pretty ignorant about how these things work.)  If you're thinking about one of these kits, just email Tom from his website.

While I really liked some of the other builders' mandolas, I had a skinny budget.  Seems to me this was the best value option, with what I could afford.  It doesn't look as beautiful as a real builder's job, because I'm not a skilled finisher.  But I'm very happy with it.

Cheers.  Keep us posted...
Bill

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