# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Who could restore country music?

## Ken Berner

If you had to pick worthy country music artists to restore "country music" to what in once was, what names would you add to this list:

Don Williams
Alan Jackson
George Jones
Clint Black
Tom T. Hall
Mel Tillis
Dolly Parton
George Strait
Loretta Lynn
Vince Gill

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## EggerRidgeBoy

Well it depends upon what period "once" refers to - I'm sure that to many older fans in the 1950's "once" meant the 20's and 30's, and acts like the Carter Family, Jimmie Rodgers, the Blue Sky Boys, etc., acts that had been replaced by those young, new, loud singers like Hank and Lefty and Webb. #

But I know what you mean, and to your list I would add Dale Watson and Susannah Van Tassel. They'll never sell enough CDs or get enough airplay to acutally have much of an effect on the industry, but that's what country music would sound like if I were in charge.

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## RevRichard

Ricky Skaggs
Merle Haggard

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## EggerRidgeBoy

Marty Stuart
Jim Lauderdale

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## Joel Glassman

I don't understand "restoring country music to what in once was"
What was it? Better music? There has been good and bad country 
music in every era. I like the traditional stuff, but it doesn't sell. 
IMO the good songwriting in Nashville today is on the fringes, it doesn't 
make the charts.

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## Jim MacDaniel

Hank III

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## Ken Berner

I became a listener of country music radio in '47 and I guess I was thinking along the lines of the '50s era of country music. Marty Robbins, Ray Price, Carl Smith, Hank Snow, Ernest Tubb, Hank Williams, Johnny & Jack, Kitty Wells, Grandpa Jones, Stringbean, Brother Oswald, Roy Acuff, Webb Pierce and others were the artists I was listening to. Kindly tell me some names of that era that were providing "bad country music".

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## bones12

Gid Tanner, Riley Puckett, Earl Johnson, John Dilleshaw, Ted Hawkins........... 

           Doug in Vermont

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## MrSunshine

In my opinion, it's not only the sound that makes a great 'era' for a musical style but also the integrity of the artists producing that music...that's what today's country 'artists' (using that term rather loosely) are lacking - integrity. 

You know who's the decision maker in most musical forms today? George Washington!

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## Leevon DeCourley

Dwight Yoakum

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## newbreedbrian

Fred Eaglesmith, Hank III, Wayne Hancock.....

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## Big Joe

I certainly don't want country music from today's genre in my CD player! I'm tired of poor song writing with poor melodies and monotonous rhythms. At least ole Hank Sr. and Johnny Cash brought something new and musical to the plate. And, they were less concerned about radio than they were the song. It was like poetry in motion.

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## mandolirius

&lt;restore "country music" to what in once was&gt;

Without making any judgement, I really do find this baffling. How would you "restore" a genre of music. and why? music is made by people living in societies, which have this habit of not remaining the same. music has to continue to move forward, not back. it's more a matter of what road it's taking, wouldn't you think?

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## John Flynn

IMHO, the so-called "country" genre is unsavable. I think once the money gets really huge in any artistic medium, the quality goes away. People get motivated more by the money than the music. Also the "star-maker machinery" kicks in and artists, songs and arrangements get manufactured, packaged and force fed to the public. Yes, there are a few good singer-songwriters left in country, just like there are in rock, but they just get drowned out by the bad. 

I like the saying, "There's tens of dollars to be made in old-time music." It is the real country music, and always has been.

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## Chris Biorkman

Rascal Flatts and Emerson Drive. Just kidding.

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## AlanN

I love that look, the low cowboy hat and mic-around-the-head, I just love it. Kind of like Mick Jagger meets The Midnight Cowboy.

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## JeffD

I don't know about this "love or money" thing. We could argue that all day. But it seems to me a large part of the problem is that the gate keepers / decision makers in country music don't have a feel for the music, and are focused on a certain sound that many would agree has strayed a bit from what made country music great.

I would hope with all the new ways to get music out to people, that the gatekeepers will become more and more irrelevant.

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## lgc

With an increasingly urban population and a generally homoginized society there is little in the way of a social framework to supprt traditional country. Musical movements reflect the culture that creates them. The best that one can hope for is to preserve country music because it is not a given that the values and aesthetics that created country will ever be hold a prominent place in American society again. We don't value three chords or the truth.

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## Gutbucket

With the dismal state that it's in, how bout Rob Zombie? Some of these so called Country bands are only a small step away.

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## AlanN

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

- The old homeplace is too expensive to buy
- If I murder my girlfriend, O.J.'s lawyer will get me off
- Banjos and mandolins don't sell Chevy trucks

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## Dan Margolis

We now accept huge, mass-market music as the norm--why? Add the Derailers and the Spurs to the names of great regional country bands with a national (possibly international) presence. You won't hear them at huge auditoriums, but you might hear them in a cool club or small theater. By the way, even "back in the day" our heroes sometimes recorded cruddy songs.

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## mandopete

Don't worry, American Idol has it covered!

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## Peter Hackman

Isn't it enough to just play your own music as well as you can?

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## hoffmannia2k7

I sort of like SOME of the new country stuff, country still tells a story that the common guy can relate to and also can go out and drink down some troubles with. You definitely can't argue with the flashiness in country music, its not like that wasn't ever there before even when the carters donned their sunday best to record and when all those nudie suits were around. So now the look is no shirt, tight jeans and a low riding cap. It is actually less flashy! Also, Country begat rock and roll and now people complain that country has too much rock and roll in it. discuss. Hank Thompson and Porter wagoner died in the last week. music changes over time. If you don't like something don't listen to it. That is why I only polka for one hour on sunday when it is on the radio.

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## claytonstewart

Steve Earle, or maybe if BlackHawk was still together, they could help...

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## claytonstewart

> Isn't it enough to just play your own music as well as you can?


[QUOTE]
Isn't it enough to just play your own music as well as you can?

Not really! IMO you cannot play music without listening to and caring about other people's music...Listening provides the first draw to want to play. Continuing to care about other peoples music is fundamental in musical growth. In my opinion

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## jimbob

Willie Nelson
Jerry Jeff Walker

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## testore

There are just too many factors involved in the decline of the genre. Mostly it's the money. The song writing is bad, but every once in awhile something stands out as being almost good enough. Dwight Yokam, if anyone would give Merle Haggard a chance he'd change it, Alan Jackson has enough money not to worry about acceptance, but the work that it would take is enormous. It comes down to the buyer. If the average buyer likes what they hear then nothing will change. Unfortunately this club we belong to is too small to make much of a difference. Play and buy what you like and the evolution that takes place can't be stopped.

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## mboucher

"Who can restore country music?"

The country music radio stations. If traditional country would get the air play. These 'pop country stars' would fall over themselves trying to sound like the Jones', Haggards', and Frizells

Mark

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## woodwizard

I don't know who if anybody can save it at this point and time. I think not. Can't stand today's country music. I'm sticking to tradtional/bluegrass/celtic/almost anything acoustic.

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## cooper4205

> Rascal Flatts and Emerson Drive. Just kidding.


I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit

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## mandolooter

Jim Lauderdale gets my vote for sure but I think we would first need some new recording engineers who go for that "old" country sound for the artists of today to work with. Lots of the popular artists seem to name there hero's as the same folks Im thinking about and having someone help them reach that in the studio might help some. I heard the Eagles were the big stars on at the CMA's.....hummmm, whats up with that??? Hotel Alabama?

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## mandopete

How many country musicians does it take a screw in a lightbulb?

Two. One to screw in the lightbulb and one to complain about how much better the old lightbulb was.

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## earthsave

I 2nd Dwight Yoakam
Hank Williams
Bill Monroe
Lester Flatt

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## lgc

The way it's headed I think the right question is who can we find to put it out of our misery the fastest.

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## hoffmannia2k7

there is already TONS of traditional country recorded. If you like it so much put it on your ipod. i liked what mandopete said about the lightbulb. It happened, it was cool, what is going on now is obviously different and that is what makes the old stuff so cool. but it is there on record so enjoy it!

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## midmando

Country music's been where it is now before - think of the whole "urban cowboy" nonsense of the late 70's, early 80's. Then guys like Randy Travis came along sounding like George Jones and things went back for awhile. I imagine the cycle will revert again. Just takes the right guy with the right sound at the right time.

That said, I don't really care that much - I'm too solidly into acoustic music at this point. I think the best thing would be a resurgence of family music, where we all make our own instead of thinking it's just for the pros to do and for us to listen.

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## Jonathan Peck

Well at the very least, perhaps they can bring back rhinestones. I especially like them on guitar pegheads spelling out 'DUDE'

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## swampy

Gillian Welch AND David Rawlings

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## laddy jota

If you are not content with Carrie Underwood as the new Queen of Country music, wait till next year and maybe Jewell will rock your world.

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## Bernie Daniel

> lgc: With an increasingly urban population and a generally homoginized society there is little in the way of a social framework to supprt traditional country. Musical movements reflect the culture that creates them. .... We don't value three chords or the truth.


Just in case no one noticed that statement was a succinct answer to the original question posed. Well done!

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## MrSunshine

It's as simple as this: The music industry will only produce what they think will sell...pre-teens/teens with an allowance and/or part-time income wield the most power today because they spend all their dollars on music and it's by products (t-shirts, etc). Mature adults have house payments, car payments, insurance, braces, etc...their hard earned dollars do not generally go for CDs, etc. It's just another example of supply and demand...

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## micall5

I second Gillian Welch as well as Steve Earl.

"Mature adults have house payments, car payments, insurance, braces, etc...their hard earned dollars do not generally go for CDs, etc."

I agree many people do not spend money on music but I feel it's due to the lack of interest as they get older and pull away from music. Many people who keep up with music still buy new cd's. I also think "mature" does not is not defined by their spending. I have most of those "living costs" and still spend my hard earned dollar on new music. Not to argue.. just a statement. 
thanks

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## MrSunshine

> ...Many people who keep up with music still buy new cd's. I also think "mature" does not is not defined by their spending. I have most of those "living costs" and still spend my hard earned dollar on new music. Not to argue.. just a statement...


...yes I understand. I also buy new music, but you'll have to admit if you visited any typical high school most of the population has probably bought multiple CDs and Band t-shirts within the last month...it's how they communicate they're individuality ("have you heard the new CD by ")...

Now in comparison, if you visit the nearest adult workplace your probably not going to hear "hey dude, have you checked out the new CD by _"! Most folks just don't keep up with the music business unless your somehow involved in it (like most of us here)...

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## Timbofood

I think I have to go along with the "radio station" answer. #The music IS out there just buried under the new stuff. #If there were more shows like "Grassroots" on the free airways the average guy could find the "good stuff." #The crew at Grassroots are friends of long standing and they work very hard for the end result. #This show has been on for years(almost 30, I think)and is pretty much the only place I hear things I want to listen to.
Strong work Mark!

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## Hans

My wife, who sings some of the "old timeyest" C & W in our part of the world...

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## Hans

Am I prejudiced? You bet!

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## re simmers

"One to screw in the lightbulb and one to complain about how much better the old lightbulb was." 
Hey, mandopete, I'm the second one! 
The ones who could restore country music are those that you and I will never hear. Jones, Haggard, and Cash would never get their chance today. Neither would Tammy, Loretta or Skeeter. But.........if I had to pick a few that should be front and center; Junior Brown (where is he?), Kathy Mattea, Emmylou Harris, Clint Black, Larry Cordle for starters. 
Bob, lover of the old bulbs!

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## mboucher

I still go back to my radio station answer. Kathy Mattea is still out there she just released a new album. I just heard an interview with her by Bill Cody on WSM. But once again she won't get the airplay. Emmylou was interviewed the two weeks ago about her new album.

You can hear the greats on wsmonline.com, they will throw in a few contempory artist from time to time. That is when you really hear the differences. Just how tight the greats and their bands were.

Mark

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## John Flynn

How many country musicians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

I don't know, I flipped the channel at the first commercial.

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## Dan Margolis

James Hand, Junior Brown, the Spurs, Dale Watson, the Derailers, I've heard them all live and they are the real deal. #There are many other great country musicians with integrity. #They don't all try to sound "old" however,if that's what you're looking for. #Another good example is Buddy Miller who is a tremendous musician putting out good CD's.

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## Ken Berner

Some great suggestions for "who to restore country music", if at all possible. Hans had the great idea of suggesting his bride; perhaps the answer is in all of the day-to-day, unheard-of folks who are more than capable to carry on the type of music we grew up with.

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## hoffmannia2k7

I like Josh Turner, that Long Black Train song reminds me of the little black train by the Carter Family.

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## Jim MacDaniel

We also mustn't forget BR549.

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## K3NTUCKI8oy

_&lt;Comment removed. Violates board posting guidelines&gt;_

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## Jim Cariello

WE could sure use Gram Parsons about now.

"Just because we wear sequined suits doesn't mean we think we're great, it means we think sequins are great." GRAM PARSONS

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## Ted Lehmann

If you haven't heard Sean Camp and Verlon Thompson, either together or separately you haven't heard really good contemporary country music. Camp is the real deal as writer, musician, and performer. So's Thompson.

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## lgc

I hear a lot of people saying that all these people who exist on the fringes of country music could save it. 

A:They've all been around for a while and haven't done t.
B:Have always beenn the fringes and would ahve always been there because their music doens't speak to the broader audience. Steve Earl, like amny of the alt country stars, is too overtly political. Gillian Welch, and similar artists, has an aesthetic that is too unique. 
C: The bands playing "traditional country" are imitations at best and don't represent the contemporary needs of the mainstream market. Only the listening tastes of the audience could restore country-whatever that means anyways. I can't wait for Garth to unretire.  

Country music for the past 65 years has been pop music. It follows our culture. Do you tthink that if Steve Earl and Gillian Welch became uber famous that they's make better music? Probably the opposite. We all know where to find music we like so why not leave it there. 

The correct answer without any question, however, is the Wilders from Kansas City. There ARE country music.

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## lgc

_&lt;Inappropriate quote from another user removed. Original quote violates board posting guidelines&gt;._

This is awful by the way and more people should post that homophobia or ignorant bigoty has no place on a mandolin message board.

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## sgarrity

What lgc said, on all accounts!

Now The Wilders.....that girl can flat out play a fiddle. And they so some of those old cryin' in yer beer songs. I saw them about a month ago. Mighty fine!

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## John Rosett

KINKY FRIEDMAN !!!!!!!
Seriously, country music (and all forms of popular music) is an industry, not an art form. I have a good friend who is in charge of a big annual country music festival in Oregon. A few years ago, when Oh Brother was boosting sales and awarness of "traditional" country music, I tried to get him to book my band, which was playing 40's and 50's-style country. This wasn't really a retro band, but more of an original band in that style. I said "C'mon, the old style country is popular enough now to put a few acts like us in with thw "hat" acts. He responded by showing me a country music industry magazine. In it was an article showing the all-time best money makers in country. They were ALL the Shania Twains and Toby Keiths. Even at it's most popular, Oh Brother and the music it promoted wasn't even a blip on the screen to the country music industry.
So who can restore good country music? The record buying public, and no one else.

Don't hold your breath...

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## hoffmannia2k7

LGC, quit speaking the truth!

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## mandobrando

Big and Rich...

seriously though, I was talking to an old school claw-hammer banjo picker yesterday and he made the comment to me, "music is powerful, if its got emotion, soul, spirit, you know the kind that makes you feel something; then it's good music. I like this kind, but if it didnt make me happy, i'd play something else..." I'd say that sums it up right there, I'm with many of you in that a lot of this new stuff is uninspiring at best, however there still are beautifully written songs, especially lyrically, produced everyday. I say appreciate what you enjoy, but why hate on what brings these emotions to other people; if someone cries when they hear a Rascal Flatts song, or laughs with a Chesney, to me that's what it's all about...

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## hoffmannia2k7

Yeah mandobrando! Speak it!

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## Michael H Geimer

> The music industry will only produce what they think will sell...
>  - MrSunshine





> With an increasingly urban population and a generally homoginized society there is little in the way of a social framework to supprt traditional country.
>  - lgc





> Who could restore country music?
>  - Ken Berner





> My wife
>  - Hans





> ... the answer is in all of the day-to-day, unheard-of folks who are more than capable to carry on ...
>  - Ken Berner





> Isn't it enough to just play your own music as well as you can?
>  - Peter Hackman


Willie Nelson had the answer back in the '60. He gave up working in Nashville and went home to play music with his sister again.

These days ... maybe Rick Rubin "gets it". We'll see.

Everyone I quoted above "gets it" for sure, and that's probably enough.

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## GVD

I agree with lgc too on everything but Garth Brooks unretiring. IMO Garth Brooks did more to ruin country music than anyone else. I'm not saying the man couldn't play some good music because he clearly could. Unfortunately he generated so much income that the suits in the record industry decided that everyone had to be the _next_ Garth Brooks. Traditional sounding bands haven't had a chance since.

GVD

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## John Rosett

[QUOTE= (Benignus @ Nov. 12 2007, 14:00)]


> Everyone I quoted above "gets it" for sure, and that's probably enough.


So, the rest of us that added to this don't?

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## Hans

Actually you as consumers are the ones to "save" country music. Keep buying that record company slop you are being fed (by some crooner backed up by studio musicians) and they will just feed you more. Michael is right, C & W is alive and well. Look for it at your small local venues, and support your local musicians no matter what the genre. That's where you will find the real music.

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## Jim MacDaniel

> Actually you as consumers are the ones to "save" country music. Keep buying that record company slop you are being fed (by some crooner backed up by studio musicians) and they will just feed you more. Michael is right, C & W is alive and well. Look for it at your small local venues, and support your local musicians no matter what the genre. That's where you will find the real music.


You mean we as consumers _and_ players.

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## mandolirius

The original poster asked "who could restore country music to what it once was". Obviously this is rhetorical. No one is going to "restore" commercial country music to anything. It's an industry not an art form, as someone said, and is going to do whatever it needs to do to generate profit. Most people don't really listen to music. It's just background, and so the smooth, slick stuff works for them. The biggest question for country radio in the last 10 years or so is how to capture the aging baby boomers (some of whom are finally tiring of classic rock). It's all pretty calculated.

Nashville-style country music doesn't want restoring. It's not profitable. There are alternatives to the Nashville sound - many have been mentioned here. So exactly what is it that needs restoring? Is the point that Nashville should get back to doing what it used to? Should country radio start playing George Jones again? Would you expect pop radio to start playing The Beatles? Radio may be a wasteland but the good stuff is out there and it's not that hard to find. So what's the problem again?

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## epicentre

Alison Krauss, Emmylou Harris, Cox Family.

Gerry Douglas.

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## sgarrity

The problem is the junk is thrown in our faces all the time while the good stuff requires searching through the weeds to find it. I dont' mind hunting for the good stuff. But it's a shame it doesn't reach a broader audience

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## luckylarue

Listen to bootliquor radio.com

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## Jim MacDaniel

...as well as to XM Radio channel 12/X-Country, which features many of the artists referenced elsewhere in this thread, as well as many others not getting much, if any, mainstream airtime.

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## Michael H Geimer

> So, the rest of us that added to this don't?


 I didn't mean to imply that at all.

I just think the amateur and semi-pro players must "carry the torch" because those were the folk playing this music in the first place. I saw a bunch of comments I liked, all in roughly the same spirit. So, I quoted 'em.

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## mandolirius

&lt;But it's a shame it doesn't reach a broader audience&gt; 

But what makes you think the broader audience would care or even pay attention? I used to have this type of discussion a lot when I was a bluegrass radio host. People had ideas on how to make it more popular. I usually didn't say so, but I thought none of them would make any difference. I'm thinking about the comment about how "Oh Brother" was a mere blip on the country music radar. It's true. Only a certain few people are going to find their way to something outside the mainstream, outside of what they are told is good and popular. If you only hang out with similarly-minded people to yourself, it's easy to think otherwise. But if not, and you look around (like at the CD collections in people's living rooms) you'll see that most people appear to be content with what's "thrown in their faces". At least, that's how it seems to me. 

Most people will buy and eat process cheese slices. Anyone who was a real cheese-lover wouldn't even have them in their house. The cheese slice eaters know there are better-tasting alternatives but they don't care. The slices are ok and what's most important is that they are convenient. Music for the majority is like that. What pop culture throws at them is easy. They don't have to think about it. They don't want to search throught the weeds for the "good stuff". Popular music, be it country or whatever, is convenient and comfortable.

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## Jim MacDaniel

I like your analogy, and to take it a bit further, Steve Earle is a nice raw-milk _Reblochon_ to Toby Keith's processed Velveeta.

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## lgc

Jim
I'm am actaully curious. Why, specifically is TK so bad? He is an independant artist who writes his own material and while I don't like his subject matter AT ALL(I find it reprehensible) he is a skilled writer. Very effective.

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## Ken Berner

Years ago, a well-known songwriter friend told me that artist's agents keep music files, chock full of good songs that never saw "the light of day". These songs didn't meet the at-the-present-time-criteria for country music, therefore didn't get recorded. Can you imagine what a treasure some of this material would bring if it could be reviewed by someone with an ear for quality music?

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## croonerexpress

ann frank was wrong, and popular music proves this.

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## GVD

> mandolirius Posted
> 
> ...Only a certain few people are going to find their way to something outside the mainstream, outside of what they are told is good and popular. If you only hang out with similarly-minded people to yourself, it's easy to think otherwise. But if not, and you look around (like at the CD collections in people's living rooms) you'll see that most people appear to be content with what's "thrown in their faces"At least, that's how it seems to me. 
> 
> Most people will buy and eat process cheese slices. Anyone who was a real cheese-lover wouldn't even have them in their house. The cheese slice eaters know there are better-tasting alternatives but they don't care. The slices are ok and what's most important is that they are convenient. Music for the majority is like that. What pop culture throws at them is easy. They don't have to think about it. They don't want to search throught the weeds for the "good stuff". Popular music, be it country or whatever, is convenient and comfortable.


Excellent analysis mandolirius. The majority want to be _told_ what to listen to and/or watch these days. It amazes me that anyone outside of the movie studios would give a rip about the _Weekend Box Office_ numbers that are #reported by every form of media like it's important news. If I want to go watch a film it's going to be because I've done a little research about it and have determined that based on some combination of the subject matter, director and cast that *I* might actually enjoy the movie not because it had _good_ box office numbers. But then again that does require a little bit of work on my end and it would be so much easier to just have things spoon fed to me. 

GVD

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## sgarrity

They would care or pay attention if they had any appreciation for "good" music. Are you going to make Tim O'Brien or Mike Compton or The Derailers into superstars? Absolutely not! But if their music reached a broader audience, more people might be able to enjoy their individual talents. 

There will always be those that listen and watch what they are told to. And there will always be those of us that seek out good music, tasty cheese and great single malt scotches. It's the folks in the middle that would benefit from getting to hear a little "real" country next to their Big and Rich and Cowboy Troy.

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## mandolirius

&lt;These songs didn't meet the at-the-present-time-criteria for country music, therefore didn't get recorded. Can you imagine what a treasure some of this material would bring if it could be reviewed by someone with an ear for quality music? &gt;

But those songs were submitted with the intent of selling them. If the writer had simpler goals in mind, like just recording them, those songs could have seen the light of day. But they wanted to turn them into commericially-viable items and willingly participated in that process. When you do something with music that only has the goal of generating revenue, you're already in bed with the devil and can't really complain if it didn't work out the way you hoped. 

You seem to be making some assumptions, like the songs were never heard by anyone who knew anything about "quality" music. Who defines quality? And how do you know these songs were any good to begin with. Honestly, I think you're just saying commercial country music sucks for the most part, and I agree with you. But I don't see any action needing to be taken, or any great wrong being done. I once interviewed David Grisman around the time he had been dropped by a major label, prior to starting Acoustic Disc. I asked him why he thought his kind of music wasn't more popular and this was the answer he gave: "the thing is, most people dig sh*t." That response wasn't much use to me for broadcast purposes and I of course edited it out. But I've thought a lot about in the ensuing twenty or so years and I believe it to be the simple truth. Musically, most people are satisfied with what's commercially available and I'm sure that includes most fans of country music. Hey, let's face it - we're not the mainstream. The mainstream has barely heard of a mandolin, let alone Mandolin Cafe.

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## JeffS

Gentlemen, I don't think this is a country music problem. I think it is an industry wide problem. I like some of this new country because it sounds like rock and roll. In my opinion too much rock sounds like rap or Sesame Street on steroids (why does everyone have to sing like cookie monster now?) I find myself listening to this new country because new rock and roll is ####. 

Something I noticed about 3 weeks ago... I watch a lot of VH-1 Classic Rock. A few Friday nights ago I noticed on VH-1 Classic Rock they were playing R&B and Soul concerts where they normally had rock concerts. The next channel over on my cable dial is VH-1 Soul so I thought I had messed up. But I hadn't. I guess some executive must looked at some numbers and saw they were missing the 35-45 black male demographic or something and decided to throw in programming to boost it but just damn, that isn't what the channel is for. I think the same thing is probably happening everywhere. Bean counters are calling the shots and trying to sign and play what will get them the quick buck. In my opinion they've totally destroyed pop and rock doing this which is probably why country is seeing so much crossover. The good news is it isn't just happening to country. The bad news is it is only going to get a lot worse.

I think the solution is independent artists getting their stuff out for sale via other channels than terrestrial radio and big record labels and being able to promote and sustain a major tour. Does anyone think that is possible? I think the technology is available but I don't see anyone turning down a record deal to do it all on their own.

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## Soupy1957

At the risk of being redundant:

Marty Stuart (already doing it)
Ricky Skaggs (already doing it)
Dolly Parton (already doing it)
Vince Gill (already doing it)

There are others who are gradually realizing that a "return to the roots of Country" is important, and shifting gears, as well.

Todays "Country" is just like 60's "Rock" and the first "electrification" of the instruments in "Old Country" was where we went wrong (IMHO). Nothing wrong with having a microphone or two, but amplifying the instruments themselves was the lead-in to Rock-a-billy. 

Hollywoods desire to map "Cowboy music" (i.e.:"Riders In The Sky" and "Gene Autry" et al), was another nick in the gears in the wrong direction.



-Soupy1957

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## Klaus Wutscher

> Todays "Country" is just like 60's "Rock" and the first "electrification" of the instruments in "Old Country" was where we went wrong (IMHO). Nothing wrong with having a microphone or two, but amplifying the instruments themselves was the lead-in to Rock-a-billy.


So rockabilly was a step in the wrong direction?

The classic Johnny Cash records for Sun were when "we went wrong"? Can anyone say that and actually keep a straight face?

Fact is, we can´t step back in time. Anyone who creates music in the style of yesteryear, no matter how good and how well intentioned, cannot be the future of a style IN THE LONG RUN.

Let´s face it. Maybe Country (as an evolving, creative genre) has run its course, as have Swing, Blues, Soul, arguably "modern" Jazz, Doo-Wop, European classical music...
That doesn´t mean the music is dead or has no listeners- it just means that it doesn´t reflect peoples lives and themes any more and becomes part of our cultural heritage - nothing wrong with that, but nobody wonders who will save Opera. You can´t. It´s dead. Lots of money is spent where I live to keep it running. That´s ok with me, it is something our culture can be very proud of, and it should be around.

But it´s not where our society´s at in 2007.

"Country is not dead it just smells funny" to paraphrase Zappa (and he knew....)

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## luckylarue

The ubiquitous tv/video is to blame. It's all about the image and if you ain't a super-model, forget about getting any kind of exposure in the corporate/mainstream music world.

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## Yonkle

Save country music?! #How about save music in general! I was never into country or bluegrass or old time or any of the music associated with the mandolin until only a few years ago.
 I used to listen to rock, rock and roll,pop, folk whatever was on the radio and enjoyed most of it up until about the 1980's "New wave" thing, then later the "grunge" thing both which are very tollerable to me now compared to todays standard of music.
 I hear a lot about Britney Spears who I know nothing about so I watched a few of her videos and "if this is what kids call music I feel sorry for todays youth" missing out on The Beatles, The Stones, Johnny Cash, Johnny Horton ect. ect.
 I agree todays country music is garbage all about $$$ fake just like synthosized music.
 I turn on the radio nowadays and hear these girl bands, fake country music stars, hip hop, and the worst so called "music" of the century "RAP" and I kringe!
 Whatever happened to songwriting and playing like from the likes of Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Paul McCartney, Lennon, Ian Anderson,Johnny Cash, Hank Williams great guitar playing like from Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, George Harrison, Roy Harper, Steve Howe, BB King, ect. ect.
 Save Country Music.... Yes it needs it, but what about all the other genres? Seems like todays artists have no soul, no talent.
 The only real music today is in classical Philharmonics, the bluegrass thing, and thanks God for David Grisman for keeping things acoustic, these are the only source of real talent left! Radio is dead! I wish it would come back I miss the old AM radio days. #IMHO #Jd
PS: And whoever above who wrote :Why does everybody sing like the Cookie Monster"? Ha Ha LOl great analogy YES&lt; WHY IS THAT?? Rock bands sing or "yell" I should say and stick the mic down thier throat and try to sound like "Satan" yelling into the mic mixed with the guitar with so much distortion the two combined is just a bunch of fuzzy muffeled trash. Bring back melody and songwriting.
 I do nothice a lot more kids these days are digging out Mom and Dads old LPs and listening to Hank, Beatles ect. so maybe thier is hope for a Renaissance of real talent!

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## mandolirius

&lt;Save country music?! How about save music in general!&gt;

What does this mean? Save music? From what? Look, much of what is popular is #### to many of us. Why? Because we are among a select group of people who determine their own tastes and preferences, to borrow the old phrase from the first year economics text. We critically evaluate what we listen to. Most people are not like that. They don't have that big a need for music in their lives. They need some background noise and pop music fills that bill. 

As for the rest of it, as we all know, there's lots of good stuff available for those who care to seek it out. People I know who are really into music generally tend to drift away from pop music in favour of pursuing their own musical preferences. When I was an impressionable teenager, playing electric bass in a rock band and trying to emulate the rock stars, I fell in with a bad crowd - jazz fans! And not only jazz fans, but major record collectors. Once I started hanging out with them, I realized that jazz was only the begining. They were into vintage country, rockabilly, bluegrass, blues, gospel, balkan and arabic, classical and on and on. 

These guys had on the order of 20,000 pieces (vinyl, of course) in their homes. Entire rooms required to house their collections. I felt like I could move in with any of them, quit working, cut back on my sleep and I'd still never get to the end of it. For me, it was a wakeup call. I'd only been seeing one slice, and missing
the whole pie. I knew something had to go, and I started down the road away from pop culture and into the wild, wonderful, mystical world of the rest of music. I'm so grateful for having had these experiences and having my eyes opened early on in life. I didn't have to waste a lot of it on that one narrow slice of pie, I got the whole enchilada. And now I've made myself hungry and have to go eat.

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## lgc

There are people in Hip Hop today who write lyrics as deep and poetic as any icon from the 1960's. If you can't relate to a culture isn't that your shortcoming? You are saying word for word what parents in the 1950's said about Rock and Roll. At least half of the musicians you named have made some very bad music for money. If you don't know about all the amazing music being made in this country and around the world then maybe you should educate yourself instead of berateing things you dont understand.

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## mandocrucian

All this is symptomatic of media consolidation and the concentration of control in the hands of fewer and fewer mega-corporations. #And it's gonna get worse if the current Republican head of the FCC gets his way in trying to rush through new regulations allowing ever further consolidation. Clear Channel only owned something like 50 stations before the first wave of "deregulation" - a year later, they owned 1200 stations. #Right now 5 megacorporations control 80% or more of all US media. #Eventually it will all be essentially the voice of _Pravda_ - everything the megarich think you should think.

So what does this have to do with quality of music?

Regional radio, once a driving force in the development and exposure of regional acts, is long dead, replaced by fiats coming out of corporate headquarters as to what or what doesn't get on the playlists. Back in the 60's, there was a "Philly sound". Detroit had it's own stars - Bob Seger System, The Rationals, The Frost. New Orleans had it's local stars who were all getting airplay - in fact the N.O. scene was so good, many of these guys never bothered to play much outside of Louisiana because they made a good living right there at home.

Not that local music is dead, but it's harder and harder to get a foothold into the "mainstream" without having the suits and accountants telling you what to play etc. #It's the same thing with the big record labels - who may be running a chain of TV and radio outlets as well.

Why is there this move to stamp out internet radio? Why does Time-Warner and the others continually oppose low-power FM stations whose signals can only cover part of a city or a county? Could it be that they want to control or limit what you are exposed to musically?

What was the payola scandal of the 80s all about? It _became_ mobsters extorting the labels for airplay, but that was something which backfired on the labels. It was originally cooked as up a scheme to deprive independent labels of any possibility of having a radio hit...the big labels have big pockets, so they decided that if (reasonable, for them) payola was brought back, the indies could not afford to get their stuff on the airwaves Having the mobsters act as independent (promotional) contractors, they could claim deniability about corporate involvement. However, once mob guys bought off the program directors, they decided to go after the big money by extorting the big labels. It's all in the Frederic Dannen book *Hit Men*. #There were congressional investigations, but it never went further than the mob guys. Al Gore was on the committee. #But guess what...Tipper was on her PMRC explicit lyric labels crusade. #And wasn't it amazing....the big labels went along with that stuff, and presto.... the payola investigations never extended into the corporate involvment.  

I bet you there's a bunch of you that thought that bumping The Dixie Chicks off the airwaves was great. _(Yeah...ban em forever...send 'em off to Russia_) One corporation deciding they are not politically appropriate for their 1000 stations. _Get in line sister if you want your careers,_ which was supposed to be the chilling message. But that much concentrated power means that maybe your favorite kind of music never gets any real airplay because some CEO doesn't think it deserves it...not enough money playing that "fringe music" when the formula will do.

It's not that people naturally opt for garbage..... it's what they are programmed to do. Limit the listener choices, don't let them even become aware of the other stuff...they might actually prefer it. And if it ain't on big radio, it's not in WalMart or KMart. It's similar to musical propaganda - repeat the official apporved spin - or spin the approved "product" - over and over, and the masses will buy into as reality. The same forces that are determining what you are allowed to (conveniently) hear musically, are the same ones which determing what sort of "news" you will hear and which viewpoints are not in their $$$-interest for you to become aware of. 

Every once in a while a fluke breaks through. Notable was *O Brother*. The Nashville CW establishment would have like to have crushed that...no airplay. BUT, it was a MOVIE, and they couldn't control the movie screens. #And that's how the music got to the public...from seeing the movie and then getting the soundtrack. Radio didn't have anything to do with it. #

Or how about Billy Ray Cyrus? Yeah, I know, everyone got sick of _"Achy Breaky"_, but the real deal was that Nashville was out to get him because of his success because he was a fluke that came from outside (WV) their system.

The music mags get a lot of ad money from the big labels...so they "play ball" coverage-wise if they want to keep that money flowing. No airplay...no magazine coverage. No press....no airplay. It's a big vicious circle of parasites with the people that actually produce the music at the very bottom of the food chain. The average musician as the equivalent of migrant workers in agribusiness.

Tom Petty's *The Last DJ* has plenty of commentary about the music _biz_. I thought it was one of the best albums he ever did, but the AMG reviewer only gave it 1-1/2 out of 5 stars. Boy, that guy's nose really got brown with that review. #Maybe he was afraid that his flow of promo review copies might slow to a trickle if he gave it a good review. _Get in line brother!..._

You want to save country music? Then you need to think about saving the first amendment. #Otherwise, don't complain about the garbage and proganda you're limited to.

Niles H

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## mandopete

> Regional radio, once a driving force in the development and exposure of regional acts, is long dead, replaced by fiats coming out of corporate headquarters as to what or what doesn't get on the playlists.


Good reason to support public radio!

We got bluegrass on Sunday from 12 to 3 at KBCS

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## mandolirius

&lt;You want to save country music? Then you need to think about saving the first amendment. Otherwise, don't complain about the garbage and proganda you're limited to.&gt;

Nice post, lots of very good points. But, here's the rub:

No one is limited to anything. First step is to "just say no" to pop culture. That's right, all of it. Chuck your cable service, listen only to NPR, campus or other alternative radio (including satellite). Pass on the (mostly) lame-o movies put out by Hollywood. Support independent films instead. Here's a big one - turn your back on pro sports. That's pop culture at it's most pervasive. 

People are gasping right now and maybe with good reason. I do partly have tongue-in-cheek. I mean, I did all of that but that doesn't mean it's for everyone or that it's the only way to go. My point is, if you want to be less exposed to and influenced by the juggernaut that is pop culture, you have to make some kind of effort to get out from under that. This being Mandolin Cafe, I'm sure there's quite a few who have done that, in one form or another.

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## Michael H Geimer

Blame the Carter's. Blame boarder radio. Fix the blame on whomever you want, but The Truth (as I see it from here) is that Country Music didn't come from the radio, and it didn't come from the records. It came out of country culture. Radio and records made this music popular, and that is nothing compared to the years of local, personal song sharing that built the foundation of this music.

Listen to the songs! People didn't fare so well when they left their homes for the city (the girl runs off, the old folks pass on, there's no light in the window). I say give country music back to real people, let the music slip quietly back into the hills, and it might do just fine. 

Shipping it off to market by the millions of units for retail sale, and ... well, that's what we have now.

JMO, of course.

( Can you tell I'm finally packed up, and ready for the hills? )

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## lgc

Maybe country songs are just a metaphor for the genre itself.

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## mandocrucian

> Nice post, lots of very good points. But, here's the rub:
> No one is limited to anything.


In my post....



> The same forces that are determining what you are allowed to *(conveniently)* hear musically,


No you aren't "limited" to anything, but roadblocks are continually thrown up to make it harder and harder to get plugged into "alternatives". Look at all the politico panel and talk programs....same old pundits and guests over and over. When was the last time you ever saw Chomsky on any of those? Or even Nader? Maybe if you watch LinkTV on Dish or DirecTV. Or maybe Moyers will have them on. But as far as goes....those people are non-existent unless you really search it out.

Likewise...a lot of _real_ music. But if not many people can find it, it's always going to existing in an alleyway. The corporations don't care about that .5% that are "collectors" - that's just the lunatic fringe as far as they are concerned. But they don't want to make it easy for anyone to join the fringe either.

NH

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## Mike Bunting

Niles and Mke, right on. Why do we even want the musics we love on "mainstream". What is wrong with our local musical communities, we are joined by the internet after all? Anything that becomes mainstream is aimed at the lowest common denominator to make the most $.

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## lgc

I don't know if I agree with the road blocks thing. Between Honking Duck, Juneberry, and Red Hot Jazz, everyone has access to the foundations of American music for free and where. Myspace alows one to find most current acts. I guess I'd say that there is an amazingly larger amount of music that is readily accessible than there was 20 or 40 or 60 years ago.  Pandora, internet radio, and all music make it easier to discover what is out there. It IS harder for fringe musicians to make a living. I'll give you that.

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## Michael H Geimer

> It IS harder for fringe musicians to make a living.


Same can be said of any industry. The mainstream is where the waters flow swiftly to market.

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## A9cp

It's whatever sells like in any business.

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## Nick Triesch

Josh Tuner, A/K and Union Station, Miranda Lampert, Taylor Swift, George Strait, Brad Paisley who is the best guitar player in country today. And 3 girls from Texas who I just better not name . Nick

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## humblemex

Red Knuckles and the Trailblazers, Laurie Lewis, and Kathy Kallick.

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## EggerRidgeBoy

Lurleen Lumpkin

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## lgc

Redd Volkaert is the best guitar player in country without a question.

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## Jim Broyles

> Redd Volkaert is the best guitar player in country without a question.


Is Brent Mason deceased?

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## Bill James

_"Why do we even want the musics we love on "mainstream"._ 

Bingo! Let the masses have Country music and the Superdome fireworks shows. What could be better than seeing Thile, Del McCoury, Fred Eaglesmith, etc.,etc. at small venues and festivals. PLEASE DO NOT tell the masses what they're missing! 

They real fun has always been under the bleachers while those in them are distracted by the "show"!

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## AlanN

Amen.

There's a local Sunday night bg radio show that sits on the Monday-Saturday Country yuck station. The music is, of course, great (with a slant to the modern sounds...so be it), but it's almost embarrassing to listen to the standard format announcing it, repleat with canned announements of the show and things like "...Get Ready For 3 hours of Picking and Grinning with the Music That Made America Famous...", in a Garry Owens-type DJ voice, etc., etc.

I cringe.

----------


## Donbanjovi

> There are people in Hip Hop today who write lyrics as deep and poetic as any icon from the 1960's. #If you can't relate to a culture isn't that your shortcoming? #You are saying word for word what parents in the 1950's said about Rock and Roll. #At least half of the musicians you named have made some very bad music for money. #If you don't know about all the amazing music being made in this country and around the world then maybe you should educate yourself instead of berateing things you dont understand.


Please dont bring that simple minded, hateful, woman hating, urban white-kid wanting to be a gansta genra into this. Its IS what is wrong with music today.

I hate new rock, new metal, new country. It all sounds the same. I dont want to see Toby Keith on stage or even Garth for that matter. 

Give me sequins and rhinestones.

Who still does this stuff? Dwight Yoakam, George Jones, Merle Haggard, Dale Watson to name a few, there are others. I love Hank III's country based-hellbilly stuff but I dont care for Superjoint Ritual at all. 

At least newgrass musicians can play their instruments somewhat. I dont know of any hip hop idiots who can play a simple chord.

And for the record, rhyming does not equal poetry so I cant accept that there are hip hop artists who are writing poetry.

----------


## Donbanjovi

> All this is symptomatic of media consolidation and the concentration of control in the hands of fewer and fewer mega-corporations. #And it's gonna get worse if the current Republican head of the FCC gets his way in trying to rush through new regulations allowing ever further consolidation. Clear Channel only owned something like 50 stations before the first wave of "deregulation" - a year later, they owned 1200 stations. #Right now 5 megacorporations control 80% or more of all US media. #Eventually it will all be essentially the voice of _Pravda_ - everything the megarich think you should think.
> 
> So what does this have to do with quality of music?
> 
> Regional radio, once a driving force in the development and exposure of regional acts, is long dead, replaced by fiats coming out of corporate headquarters as to what or what doesn't get on the playlists. Back in the 60's, there was a "Philly sound". Detroit had it's own stars - Bob Seger System, The Rationals, The Frost. New Orleans had it's local stars who were all getting airplay - in fact the N.O. scene was so good, many of these guys never bothered to play much outside of Louisiana because they made a good living right there at home.
> 
> Not that local music is dead, but it's harder and harder to get a foothold into the "mainstream" without having the suits and accountants telling you what to play etc. #It's the same thing with the big record labels - who may be running a chain of TV and radio outlets as well.
> 
> Why is there this move to stamp out internet radio? Why does Time-Warner and the others continually oppose low-power FM stations whose signals can only cover part of a city or a county? Could it be that they want to control or limit what you are exposed to musically?
> ...


Good post with some excellent points. 
I played music for many years and worked in a record store during that time. I can tell you that you can sell ANYTHING that people can hear IF THEY CAN HEAR IT.

I pimped a lot of bands/music with great sucess within the store. However, the local indy radio station was bought up, another popped up and the same thing happened.

The conglomerates don't want you to form an independent opinion. Just like theme parks and museums.......this is how it is, here is the interpretation...no no thinking allowed. 

Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto.

I blame it on soccer moms.

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## jim simpson

Shawn Camp - good songwriter

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...I hate new rock, new metal, new country. It all sounds the same. I dont want to see Toby Keith on stage or even Garth for that matter....


Don't sugarcoat it, tell us how you really feel.

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## Shalebot

The problem with mainstream country is it has become what I will just call 'Mainstream'. Meaning pop-rock, pop, country, etc.

They've all molded into one big clusterfu**, and are all equally indistinguishable and terrible. There's nothing wrong with collaboration, but when it's bad music to begin with, well... Basically, country is just rock now, and rock is just pop, with a little more distortion, and rap and rock have already mixed, and etc. It wouldn't surprise me if Timbaland started producing country singers. Anything for a buck.

Nashville radio is a significant obstacle (far more so than perhaps, radio in rock).

Country is headed down a pretty depressing road, as is a lot of music. Luckily, there will always be good music, you'll just have to look harder for it.

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## mandroid

The major labels A&R committees , unfortunately, are not elected positions.

Though starting a new label is, perhaps, like a vote of No Confidence.

And adding to the community listener supported non commercial radio stations on the air.



AND names I'll add Charley Pride and Martin Bogen and Armstrong 
 Howard Armstrong was a damn fine mandolin player and fiddler.

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## Nick Triesch

There is nothing that anyone can do about modern country today. It happened to rock over 50 years ago. Right after the true rockers like Carl Perkins came out with fantastic songs like " Blue Suede Shoes" , " itsy bitsy teenie weenie yellow pokeadotted bikini" came out! All pop music over time is filled with junk. Thats just the way it is. Do what I do....just listen to what you like!!!!!!  Nick

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## mando bandage

> But.........if I had to pick a few that should be front and center; Junior Brown (where is he?), Kathy Mattea, Emmylou Harris, Clint Black, Larry Cordle for starters.


Speaking of Kathy Mattea, I just bought her 2008 release entitled "Coal". Concept album of mostly old time songs about coal miners, dedicated to the memory of her grandfathers, both miners. Produced by Marty Stuart who also plays some nice mandolin throughout. Session musicians are top drawer, (Byron House, Stuart Duncan, etc.) I highly recommend it for fans of Appalachian roots music. Heartfelt music that still matters.

R

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## Mike Bunting

I'd throw Charlie Robison into the mix.

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## Chris Wofford

There is no doubt that good music is defined by the notes the instruments play. But it is also by the words. Maybe a lot of the young acts don't have the road rash on them that the older country stars did. That makes a difference. But when you listen to lyrics you know these folks are singing songs that hit people right where they live. I listen to a Taylor Swift song and remember the angst of teenage love. Man, I felt those feelings deep back then. And I believe you can't beat the simplicity of Don Williams. 

There is still great music today. The reason some folks here won't give new country and new music a chance is the same reason some people won't give old, good country and bluegrass a chance. It doesn't sound right and we decide in the first 5 seconds whether it is junk or not. Sometimes we have to listen again.

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## mandopete

Restore country music? I'm waiting for the distressed version!

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## 250sc

Only the buying public and their not interested.

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## Sean Greer

> The ubiquitous tv/video is to blame. It's all about the image and if you ain't a super-model, forget about getting any kind of exposure in the corporate/mainstream music world.


I think as far as country goes, you hit this spot on. I choose to ignore mainstream country and focus on the smaller artists/groups that make the rounds on the festival circuit. I like to buy my CDs directly from the source, which hopefully means they get the full $15 bucks.

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## steadypluckinaway

I thought Leftover Salmon had a great start with "The Nashville Sessions". Waylon really made that album special, as did Del. Anyone familiar with that one? 

If not, you should check it out.

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## Ken Olmstead

Forgive my ignorance but what is a "Nudie" suit? Vince Gill has a new song called "Take This Country Back." The chorus goes:

"We got to take this country back
We need a few more matchin' Nudie suits
and silver dollar Cadillacs
There's one too many dime store cowboys
muscled up in a cowboy hat
we got to take this country back"

I quoted the whole chorus as it seems to echo the thread.

----------


## mboucher

Dwight Yoakom

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## kyblue

Chris Stapleton.

I love that guy.

Of course, there would be a lot more killin' songs.

Paula

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## mandopete

> Forgive my ignorance but what is a "Nudie" suit?


The undisputed king of the Nudie Suit - the late Porter Waggoner

----------


## Rick Schmidlin

Gillian Welch and David Rawlings
The Avett Brothers

...and hopefully some hot new pickers under the age of twenty five and a few over the age of sixty.

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## Ken Olmstead

> Originally Posted by  (tenorbanjoguy @ April 11 2008, 10:40)
> 
> Forgive my ignorance but what is a "Nudie" suit?
> 
> 
> The undisputed king of the Nudie Suit - the late Porter Waggoner


Whoa, I don't know what I was expecting but not that!!!

----------


## EdSherry

Tenorbanjoguy -- The late "Nudie" Cohn was a Hollywood tailor who specialized in ornate rhinestone-studded clothing. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudie_Cohn

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## Ken Olmstead

> Tenorbanjoguy -- The late "Nudie" Cohn was a Hollywood tailor who specialized in ornate rhinestone-studded clothing. #See
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudie_Cohn


Thanks Ed. Apprears Nudie was a mandolin player.

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

The Kentucky Headhunters!

----------


## Fred Keller

Corb Lund makes think there's hope in country music:

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## mandolooter

That Reckless Kelly Band from Idaho ain't too bad...but yea what exactly are we restoring it too? Theirs been a lot of great songs, singers and bands doing country thru the decades...lots of good ones never got discovered, some of the great ones did.

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## mandozilla

The re-incarnation of Hank Williams.  :Grin: 

 :Coffee:  :Mandosmiley:

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## Jim MacDaniel

Hank III?

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## Jim Murton

I would say Hank III.When he does country it sounds like real country..

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## mandopete

> Corb Lund makes think there's hope in country music:


That's a great song, thanks for posting it.

5 Stars!

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## mandopete

> I would say Hank III.When he does country it sounds like real country..


Hey, if you dig III, you might want to check out Wayne "The Train" Hancock - some serious honky-tonk...

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## journeybear

I WILL! I've written a bunch of songs that will make it happen - the perfect combination of tradition and innovation. Get me a major label contract with total creative control and unlimited funds and my pick of backing musicians and singers and I will singlehandedly restore country music to its former glory.

No problem!  :Mandosmiley:  :Mandosmiley:  :Mandosmiley:

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## mandopete

Okay, slight diversion, but this guitar break was too much to be ignored.  Here's Eddie Biebel playing with Wayne Hancock on Johnny Law.

Gotta learn how to do this on a mandolin!

----------


## Dan-0

Wow, what an interesting topic, and what great comments on it. I think there's still a lot of great country music being recorded and released these days, the problem is it doesn't get played on country radio or CMT/GAC. I've noticed the deterioration in the last five year to the point that I can hardly listen to country radio, it's intolerable. It's really just bad Southern rock, and that ain't good.  :Laughing: 

Country radio was revitalized in the 80's, IMHO, by a few folk artists, like NGDB, CDB, and Michael Martin Murphy, who made the natural transition into country music. But, where will artists like those come from these days? There were some very good young artists who got airplay through the 90's like Dixie Chicks, Alison Krauss, and Mary Chapin Carpenter. Those are just some artists I liked. But, the landscape looks bleak these days. I'm afraid we're in for a serious dry spell in country radio, full of Toby Keiths, Kenny Chesneys, and other Southern rockers who sing songs written by hacks and whose music is marketed toward folks who have a Wal-Mart taste in music. I don't mean to sound arrogant or elitist, that's just my opinion. There are still a lot of great artists out there who could revitalize country music, they just can't get airplay for some reason.

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## Jim Gallaher

Chris Stapleton of The Steeldrivers.

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## mandopete

> Chris Stapleton of The Steeldrivers.


I think he's busy trying to restore bluegrass music.

<grins>

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## journeybear

> ... I think there's still a lot of great country music being recorded and released these days, the problem is it doesn't get played on country radio or CMT/GAC. I've noticed the deterioration in the last five year to the point that I can hardly listen to country radio, it's intolerable. It's really just bad Southern rock, and that ain't good. ...  I'm afraid we're in for a serious dry spell in country radio ... songs written by hacks and whose music is marketed toward folks who have a Wal-Mart taste in music. I don't mean to sound arrogant or elitist, that's just my opinion. There are still a lot of great artists out there who could revitalize country music, they just can't get airplay for some reason.


I don't think you're being either arrogant or elitist, you're just showing some good taste - that is, it agrees with mine!  :Grin:  But yes, a lot of what country stations play these days, and what shows up on the tube as country, sounds to me more like recycled and slightly softened 80s rock. I'm expecting to see the return of the mullet any day now, especially with the return of Billy Ray Cyrus. I don't understand why Kenny Chesney keeps racking up entertainer of the year awards and monstrous CD and ticket sales. He's pretty good, but he ain't all that! It could just be an indication of the lowering of the bar.

There was a glorious time not too long ago, mid-90s to the first couple of years of this century, when American or alt-country was getting some play, with the likes of Lucinda Williams, The Jayhawks, Uncle Tupelo, even Michelle Shocked, and later Kathleen Edwards, Kasey Chambers, and Neko Case. It seemed like things were getting better and the music was changing and evolving. Now it seems like it was just another passing fad and the latest version of the Nashville Sound has taken over, singers and songs with interchangeable parts. There are still a few good 'uns out there, whom I will give a listen to and benefit of the doubt - Vince Gill, Brad Paisley, Alison Kraus, Martina McBride, Keith Urban, Kathy Mattea, maybe a few others - but much of the rest do little or nothing for me, and some of them make me run quick for the volume or tuning knob or clicker. What I like about the three guys I mentioned is they're also good pickers - Alison too, when she does break out the fiddle, all too seldom these days.

If you can, look for a show on either CMT or GAC called "Wide Open Country." They play off-the-beaten-track stuff, and you're much more likely to hear something to your liking there - including veteran musicans who can't get played on Top 40 any more but are still producing good music. That's where I heard Kathleen Edwards first, for instance, and her "Back To You" still gives me the chills just thinking about it. Check your local listings or go to http://www.zap2it.com to search for broadcast times in your area. It's only a half hour but it's worth the effort. A few years ago when I was playing country music regularly and was thus more into it, I filled a couple of VHS tapes with this stuff, both to learn songs and so I wouldn't be stuck with the regular rotation fare. Now that I think about it, I oughta throw those tapes in and have some fun, and thumb my nose at the radio for a while!

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## Jim MacDaniel

> ...There was a glorious time not too long ago, mid-90s to the first couple of years of this century, when American or alt-country was getting some play, with the likes of Lucinda Williams, The Jayhawks, Uncle Tupelo, even Michelle Shocked, and later Kathleen Edwards, Kasey Chambers, and Neko Case...


Those days still exist on Satellite Radio, although its lightly doesn't shine as brightly as it did prior to the XM/Sirius merger. However, even though XM/Sirius made the terrible decision to dump XM's X-Country in favor of Sirius' Outlaw Country, the latter is still offers up far better fare than what the Nashville marketing machine pumps out -- including the artists you reference above, as well as several others noted in this thread.

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## coletrickle

Wayne "The Train" Hancock...love that guy. Reincarnation of Hank Williams, I swear. I'm looking forward to seeing him as one of our headliners at the free Black Swamp Arts Festival in Downtown Bowling Green Ohio this year.

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## Mike Bunting

I'm a big fan of Charlie Robison.

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## journeybear

> Those days still exist on Satellite Radio, although its lightly doesn't shine as brightly as it did prior to the XM/Sirius merger. However, even though XM/Sirius made the terrible decision to dump XM's X-Country in favor of Sirius' Outlaw Country, the latter is still offers up far better fare than what the Nashville marketing machine pumps out -- including the artists you reference above, as well as several others noted in this thread.


That's true - though not being a satellite subscriber I don't notice what's going on there much. I'm a bit of a dinosaur, but I still think of musicians' impact and influence being centered on the play they get on broadcast radio and TV, whether broadcast or cable. I'm not all that crazy about outlaw country - though it's kept me from going insane  :Grin:  - as it tends toward posturing, and sure got coöpted by Nashville once they saw there was money to be made there. But you are right, and so is Dan-O - there is good stuff out there, you just have to look for it. 'Twas ever thus, methinks, sometimes more so than others, like nowadays.  :Frown: 

And you - always with the avatar and sig line changes ... took me a minute or two but I figured out the connection! Now, can we have that in Latin, please?  :Laughing:

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## Mike Snyder

Probably better to ignore country music, as a genre, as it has morphed into something I no longer recognise as being connected to it's roots. I don't understand how artists like Mattea, Emmylou and Tim O'Brien are not top selling stars. My tastes are obviously not mainstream in this respect. My big gripe is how a lot of "new country" songs have acoustic instrumentation in the first few bars, and somewhere after the first verse the drums and Fenders fire up. Drives me bonkers.
The listenable stuff is being marketed as alternative country, roots, or Americana. That's OK with me, as I try to ignore most marketing anyway.

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## barney 59

For as long as I can remember country music, particularly what plays on the radio has had an incredible number of really bad music and all the while sprinkled with a few really great artists. So while you had your ever popular Mack Davis's and Engleberts you also had Waylon and Willie and George Strait. I don't think it's any different now. We tend to remember the good stuff which goes on to become country classics and forget about the other, alot of which in it's time was #1 on the charts. If you consider that right now mixed up with the garbage, none of whom I can name because I try to not listen, you have Steve Earle ,Ryan Wickham, Buddy Miller, Robert Earl Keen,Adrienne Young & not to mention the bluegrass crossovers like Union Station and an endless list of others.Some will make the charts and some won't. How many radio hits did Bob Dylan ever have? One, two? Did he ever top the charts? Tommy James and The Shondells had a dozen #1's maybe. Radio sucks and except for a brief moment when local FM first became popular (before they were bought up by the networks)always has. I think Country music is just as good and just as bad as it ever was.

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## Mike Bunting

Barney, I think that's a pretty good analysis.

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## farmerjones

No, there is no more Country. There's top 40 Country. There's Outlaw Country. There's Roadhouse Country. There's the Bakersfield Beat. There's at least five different kinds of Rap? And what is Emo? There's Grunge, but don't confuse that with Garage. Is there really five different kinds of Punk? Is there a Top 40 anymore? Who decided to slice it all up? Why? Just when i can produce CDs in my basement, they make too hard to distribute to more than ten people. Remember when a magazine rack had twelve magazines? How does a magazine like "Minature Steam Powered Tamborines sell?"

whoops. . . the wheels are off the wagon. . . . 

im gonna go listen to some Boxmasters

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## Jim Murton

Wayne Hancock is great too.It is too bad radio will not play Hank 3 or wayne Hancocks music.I call most of todays counrty"Nashville Pop".Imo that is all it is,pop music produced from Nashville.I like some of it,I just don't like calling it Country.

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## Shelby Eicher

The industry and the fans are the only ones that can change Country Music. When the fans decide they won't listen to that trash we'll get some better offerings. As long as we keep buying it, they'll sell it and we'll get more of the same. What's next, Rap or Hip Hop country. Will that push enough people over the edge or will that be the next McDonald's hamburger of music that they'll sell us because they can make money at it? Sorry for the rant, but for me, I won't listen to modern pop trash. I will buy the next Blue Highway, Ricky Skaggs, David Grisman, Chris Thile, etc. project and support what I believe to be real music.

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## brown akers

We sometimes forget that country music historically is a fairly small segment of the overall music industry as a whole - and as such has had to ride along on Pop's coattails particularly in times of transition without the megastar to carry it - recall the Chet Atkins/ Owen Bradley country goes pop period, urban cowboy era, and now rock/country: country had had to basically evolve or die in poor sales. But the next Acoustic/ Oh Brother Where Art Thou/ Nickel Creek is out there to take fans back to more of the roots of the music - then they discover Ernest Tubb or Jimmie Rogers or Steve Earle or Bill or Ralph or Hank or whoever that says country to them. All artists have the chance to honor their influences and show their fans "the path" - Compton with Bill, The Grascals nod to Jimmy Martin, the list goes on and on. There's so much more to "country" and "Nashville" then just the huge mega acts but it's hard to discover them at times.

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## laddy jota

Recorded music has been around less than 100 years. Folk music was one of the first genres to make it to recordings. Country people playing folk music made up a style of music that they called Country Music. "Country" and "Music" are both words that have definitions. I am often guilty of saying, "XXX is not country music". The apologists of modern country music usually say something like, "Just because you don't like doesn't mean it's not country." I say, "No. It's because of the definition of country that I say it's not country. I like it just fine, but it's not country." I like the Clash but they are not country. Nickel Creek - same story. Country life does not really exist like it did in the 1920's. It is time to rename the Nashville Sound and let Country Music rest in peace.

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## jmarshall58

I have taken to calling myself "just an old folk singer" since the country that I do goes to Riley Puckett, Charlie Poole, Uncle Dave, Roy Acuff and such.  My fiddle often goes back even further.  What is being sold as country now doesn't even qualify.

Keep in mind though that I am 62 years old and grew up in Appalachia.  I also played coffee houses in an old time string band through the late 60's.  You might call me musically prejudiced.

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## Dan-0

> I don't think you're being either arrogant or elitist, you're just showing some good taste - that is, it agrees with mine!  But yes, a lot of what country stations play these days, and what shows up on the tube as country, sounds to me more like recycled and slightly softened 80s rock. I'm expecting to see the return of the mullet any day now, especially with the return of Billy Ray Cyrus. I don't understand why Kenny Chesney keeps racking up entertainer of the year awards and monstrous CD and ticket sales. He's pretty good, but he ain't all that! It could just be an indication of the lowering of the bar.


I couldn't agree more about Kenny Chesney; his music is one of the major polluters of country radio these days. He has had a couple of good songs, but, again, his music is just mediocre Southern rock, IMHO. He changed his image a few years ago and his marketing tactic, whatever it is, worked well for him. I'll give him that.




> There was a glorious time not too long ago, mid-90s to the first couple of years of this century, when American or alt-country was getting some play, with the likes of Lucinda Williams, The Jayhawks, Uncle Tupelo, even Michelle Shocked, and later Kathleen Edwards, Kasey Chambers, and Neko Case. It seemed like things were getting better and the music was changing and evolving. Now it seems like it was just another passing fad and the latest version of the Nashville Sound has taken over, singers and songs with interchangeable parts. There are still a few good 'uns out there, whom I will give a listen to and benefit of the doubt - Vince Gill, Brad Paisley, Alison Kraus, Martina McBride, Keith Urban, Kathy Mattea, maybe a few others - but much of the rest do little or nothing for me, and some of them make me run quick for the volume or tuning knob or clicker. What I like about the three guys I mentioned is they're also good pickers - Alison too, when she does break out the fiddle, all too seldom these days.


Compared to what's on country radio now, I think the 90's, Garth Brooks and all, was a golden age in country music. The Southern rock element was in the music during that time as well, with artists like Travis Tritt, but that sound didn't dominate to the point that it does now. Like you, I think what's missing in today's country is the "folk sound" on which most modern country's based. I guess I'm just getting old, but I don't see any female artists out there who could hold a candle to someone like Mary Chapin Carpenter, but that's just me. They look great, but so did the Dixie Chicks, but they could play and sing and look great too.




> If you can, look for a show on either CMT or GAC called "Wide Open Country." They play off-the-beaten-track stuff, and you're much more likely to hear something to your liking there - including veteran musicans who can't get played on Top 40 any more but are still producing good music. That's where I heard Kathleen Edwards first, for instance, and her "Back To You" still gives me the chills just thinking about it. Check your local listings or go to http://www.zap2it.com to search for broadcast times in your area. It's only a half hour but it's worth the effort. A few years ago when I was playing country music regularly and was thus more into it, I filled a couple of VHS tapes with this stuff, both to learn songs and so I wouldn't be stuck with the regular rotation fare. Now that I think about it, I oughta throw those tapes in and have some fun, and thumb my nose at the radio for a while!


 Funny you mention it, I was watching that show yesterday. It's one of the better shows on that channel, but there's still a lot of newer artists on there whose songs just don't hold up as well as some of the classic stuff. I guess that's always been the case. A show that I really miss, from the now-defunct Nash. Network, is the old "American Music Shoppe". They had all kinds of artists on that show, including a lot of bluegrass and folk artists. Watching CMT for five minutes, I really miss the days when that show was on and the music they had on there.

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## mandolirius

It's all about understanding the radio market. The "classic rock" format has crashed, for the most part. Country radio decided it could get those listeners who were sick of the Who and Aerosmith if they just "rocked up" the sound a bit. So they did.

Personally, I think there's lots of good country music out there. I just wouldn't look for it in Nashville.

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## Mike Bunting

> Personally, I think there's lots of good country music out there. I just wouldn't look for it in Nashville.


Me, I go to Austin.

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## brown akers

Dawn Sears singing "Sweet Memories" with Paul Franklin on Pedal Steel, Aubrey Haney on fiddle, Dennis Crouch on Bass, all The Timejumpers at the Station Inn every Monday night in Nashville TN. is exactly what country music is all about - she will rip your heart out and throw it into Lower Broad I can assure you - noone plays stone cold three chords and the truth country music like in Nashville Tennessee Music City USA ever seen Buddy Emmons on Steel live?

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## EasyEd

Hey All,

Who would restore Traditional Country?

Well first we have to figure out just what traditional country is! I don't know the answer. To some it's ole timey, to others it's acoustic, to others it's bluegrass (which begs the question - if bluegrass is country what's bluegrass?), to others it's cowboy, to others it's what they heard as a kid. At the end of the day everyone defines country differently. To me country is like Porn I know it when I hear it! (Ok so the analogy breaks down a tiny bit  :Laughing:  - but you know what I mean!) To me most everything I hear on Country Music radio - IS country. The more relevant question is - Does Country as played on popular radio express the breadth and depth of country? My answer is simple - NO absolutely not! Should it? YES absolutely Yes! But the perception of what sells best is everything in a capitalist market based economy. This to me is at the root of virtually every argument on what's wrong with country on the radio - the influence of money over art. This is and likely always will be a fundamental property of capitalism.

Nobody in terms of one act is going to restore Traditional Country because nobody expresses the full breadth and depth of country in their music. Nobody. That said country is alive and well. George(s) (Strait and Canyon and Jones), Alan, Brad, Kieth, Kenny (yes Kenny (his best Country isn't on the radio)), Reba, Allison, Gretchen, Jennifer (Sugarland), and so many more will carry the torch and we will witch with a capital B over what's not being played - so what else is new?  

One example however of the truely amazing power of song to define a career. There is an artist - dead now tragically who's tapes I bought from his mom and dad outta the back of a pickup at dusty rodeos in Oregon and I know many others bought his tapes under the same circumstances all over the Western USA and Canada. Then one day...

Garth recorded a song called "Much too young to feel this dam old" and there was some lines in a verse that went 

"...Tougher broncs, you know I can't recall
The worn out tape of Chris LeDoux, lonely women and bad booze
Seem to be the only friends I've left at all..." 

One line rocketed the career of Chris to stardom. Periodically it happens somebody on the fringe "makes it" Chris did - Thanks to Garth - they were good friends. So no matter what you sing it can happen - simply be true to yourself and the music. 

So enough of the heavy stuff a lot of names have been suggested but I'll add a few youtubes just for entertainment.

The first artist has been mentioned already - Corb Lund but I thought some might enjoy a Corb Lund with Mando! I love this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1V3J...eature=related

Here's a girl who sings country like Loretta did - she writes most of her own stuff. I'm going to put up a mild one and one more "hardcore" since many won't be able to handle the voice (unless you like Sugarland). This girl knows how to eenunseeiate!

This one is live so excuse the background "noise".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR84j7tdu9Y

This one "gets down" - other songs even more so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JLIqtNrV0o 

Ashton spent last year touring with Sugarland so she is getting exposure. I'll be curious to see how she is received. I'll buy everything she puts out.

In memory of Chris - My Favorite Chris song. His best never made the radio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8iiPCaI_nw

RIP Chris.

-Ed-

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## OKMike

I'm kinda partial to Jamey Johnson right now. Pretty traditional.

Mike

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## GRW3

Pop Culture tastes are continually in flux and the lament about the demise of a particular format is common to all music genres. The good thing is that with the demise of the power of the major record companies to control what you can listen too there is refuge for every taste.

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## Jim MacDaniel

<bump>

Hayes Carll continues to impress with each new recording -- definitely the antithesis of the pop-music-with-an-accent that continues to be churned out of the hit-factories in Nashville.

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## 300win

In my opinion... nobody... they're all dead.

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## John Hill

> Gillian Welch AND David Rawlings


That's kinda like Country AND Western.

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## ism2011

Brad Paisley

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## doc holiday

Mike B   "It don't matter who's in Austin,
             Bob Wills is still the King!"
             ;-)

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## chip

Scott Tichenor could...

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## Mike Bunting

> Mike B   "It don't matter who's in Austin,
>              Bob Wills is still the King!"
>              ;-)


 Ah-haa
Yessir!

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## Ed Goist

*Ryan Bingham*


_(pictured here performing with Corby Schaub on mandolin)_

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## JeffD

> Compared to what's on country radio now, I think the 90's, Garth Brooks and all, was a golden age in country music. ...   I guess I'm just getting old, but I don't see any female artists out there who could hold a candle to someone like Mary Chapin Carpenter, but that's just me. .


OMG do I feel old. Certainly Garth was great, and I kind of like Mary Chapin Carpenter, but when I think of a golden age of country music, or the female artist to whom nobody can hold a candle I go back further. Before I was born.

Garth was great, but Hank Williams is the one. George Jones perhaps is the two. Mary Chapin Carpenter is good, but there is only one Patsy Cline. Loretta Lynn a possible second. You have to go way down the list before you get to Garth, and down a lot further to get to Mary.

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## catmandu2

I could be mistaken, but didn't I at one time see a video of Garth suspended on a wire at one of his performances?

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## mandolirius

BTW, restore it to what? All the way back to the Fruit Jar Drinkers and the Bogtrotters?

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## Mike Bunting

> BTW, restore it to what? All the way back to the Fruit Jar Drinkers and the Bogtrotters?


 Now yer talking, that was country music!

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## Bernie Daniel

> Only the buying public and their not interested.


What he said.  
The musicians can only put the music out there - -the fans vote with their wallets and feet.  

Marty Stuart is trying as hard as anyone -- even his 30 min show every week is formatted kind of like the opry....

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## bmac

"worthy or not"

Wow!! What makes any of us capable of determining what is "worthy" country music.... That is determined by history and it chages all the time. "Worthy" today may be not worthy tomorrow and in the future, who knows?

If any of us could in fact determine "worthy" that would turn a dynamic art form into static text book history.

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## mrbook

Everything comes back around, although even I think country music might be too far gone at this stage. The lush "Nashville Sound" was not for me, and even Chet Atkins voiced some regret for helping create it years later. Marty Stuart is among those who play the kind of music I like.

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## GRW3

What some call restore others would call stifle and choke. Music evolves and tastes en mass change. You can't force it to validate you preferences. I don't understand why so many are bitter about this. For some it's that they thought that they would be the next big thing in a genre that is now passe but there are too many complainers for that to be realisitc. Even then I don't mind so much the harkening 'back to the day' (even if last week) but I do object to people ragging on entertainers riding the current wave just because they got the brass ring (and the complainer did not, I'm guessing). 

The real situation is that the PC and the internet have freed us from the mavens of musical monotony. Used to be the powers that be in Los Angeles, Nashville and New York could just force us to live with a limited selection. If you loved Bluegrass but lived in wrong place you were SOL. Now I have acess to more new, good Bluegrass music than I can afford to buy even though an appearance by anybody I like on the CMA or ACM stage only happens when a mainstream artist makes their 'Bluegrass' album. 

Don't live with the regret of what you don't have. Enjoy the new freedom to customize the experience.

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