# Music by Genre > Jazz/Blues Variants, Bossa, Choro, Klezmer >  Então, chora bandolim! - A choro thread

## AndyC

I have seen endless threads of fantastic information on this forum about mandolins, but seemingly little about _choro_ music. Hopefully I can share some of my passion for _choro_ and enthuse some mandolin players to branch out into it a little!

The bandolim is often used to play choro music in Brazil. It has 4 or 5 courses, and is similar in appearance to an A-style mandolin. The main differences seem to be a flatter fingerboard, and a wider lower bout (typically 30cm). You can read a lot more about the history of choro elsewhere, but for me the style I prefer is with an all-strings and percussion arrangement of Jacob do Bandolim. His ensemble consisted of 2-3 violoes (nylon strung six or seven string guitars), a cavaquinho (a steel strung ukulele for rhythm playing) and pandeiro (a single head hand held drum with jingles). The small number of players gives lots of opportunity for melodic, harmonic and rhythmic invention, which gives the style its fascination. In Jacob’s music, the bandolim has the exclusive lead role, playing the written melody and improvising. The harmony and form is typically simple, but the melodies can be extremely chromatic and taxing for the soloist.



*Brazilian bandolistas*
Jacob do Bandolim


Ronaldo do Bandolim


Hamilton de Holanda


Danilo Brito


Dudu Maia


Luis Barcellos


Deo Rian


I'm going to hopefully write a bunch more:
- sources for written music
- famous composers
- modern choro interpreters
- recorded backing tracks
- some basic harmonic analysis

Let's get things started with a few videos of choro being played in the traditional style of a soloist with a 'regional' accompanying group.

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billhay4, 

DavidKOS, 

Patrick Melly, 

Steve Davis, 

Will Patton

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## Jim Garber

> I have seen endless threads of fantastic information on this forum about mandolins, but seemingly little about _choro_ music.


Yes, _seemingly_ little... In actuality quite a bit. Try searching for the term "choro" or any of the artists you mention. Of course, it is nice to put it all in one thread but there is a vibrant interest in choro here. And we always appreciate new discoveries for videos and players.

Here are a couple of threads with sources for written music:
*Choro Instructional Material: Recommendations*
*Choro Sources*

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## Amy Burcham

Andy - yes you will find a LOT of choro love and opining here! Also if you are looking for a real-world choro watering hole - check out the Mandolin Symposium. Previous year choro faculty has included Hamilton, Danilo, Dudu, Almir Cortes, and Choro das 3 - don't know yet which Brazilian bandolinista will come to teach along with Tim Connell in late June this year, but you can bet it will be wonderful. Centrum, up in Port Townshend also has a great choro workshop in April.

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## AndyC

> Yes, _seemingly_ little... In actuality quite a bit.


Hi Jim, I didn't mean to imply there was no _information_ on this board about choro, sorry! I've discovered lots through reading threads on here, and it's an invaluable resource for book and album reviews etc. In hindsight, _discussion_ would have been a better choice of word!

Amy - I live in the UK so the chances of my visiting for Centrum are small! I usually get across for Brazil Camp and had the fortune to study with Rogerio Souza and Alessandro Penezzi this year. Maybe some day in the future.

Don't know if you are aware but Dudu has a regular Youtube slot called _Casa do Som_ where he invites guests to play on a track with him. Fabio Peron has the same arrangement as well (_Fabio Peron convida_). They are both worth checking out, although they do veer away from choro frequently. It's a great opportunity to check out close ups for technique. 

*Dudu Maia - Casa do Som
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKL...GFSW-_W5PrpxOw*

A beautiful version of Vibracoes at 20min



*Fabio Peron Convida
https://www.youtube.com/user/fabioperonconvida*

Fabio tears up Jacob's Assanhado with Gian Correa

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Amy Burcham, 

DSDarr, 

Jim Garber

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## Jim Garber

Thanks for posting those wonderful videos. Dudu is great! A fantastic musician and a real nice guy as well.  I contacted him a few years ago about when he might be in New York City and we were able to set up a two-day workshop which we repeated the following year as well. I love any version I have heard for Dudu playing Vibracoes. Fabio is one bandolimist I was not aware of.

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## Amy Burcham

Dudu is a treasure. I didn't know about these channels nor about Fabio. WOW. Thanks!

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## AndyC

One more for 2014 - looks like Danilo Brito might have a new album coming down the line. This track is absurd!




Last thing is a version of Vibracoes I recorded with cavaquinho, sete cordas and percussion, I've removed the bandolim so you can play over it like a backing track. I've followed the harmony in the Chediak white book vol.1. It's not perfect but let me know if you find it useful as I have a few more I can share.

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## Justin Carvitto

[QUOTE=AndyC;1357554]One more for 2014 - looks like Danilo Brito might have a new album coming down the line. This track is absurd!

He has a new release on iTunes dated November 2014. I haven't checked to see if the video is a track on the album.

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## DavidKOS

Great stuff...keep it coming, muito obrigado.

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## Al Bergstein

I've also created a Choro North America on Facebook. Listing jams and upcoming performances. Request membership and I'll approve it. Over 100 tracking it currently.

You aren't from Reading are you Andy?

Al

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## Amy Burcham

Danilo had advance copies at the Symposium last year. Pega Ratâo is on it and so are 8 other fantastic tracks.
Thanks for the backing tracks, Andy!

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## DSDarr

Also keep in mind that the great bandolimist/guitarist Almir Cortes will be here (Seattle -- Portland as well) in mid-April most likely, along with João Paulo Amaral. This is about a week and a half prior to the Centrum Choro workshop. A workshop is in the planning and probably a house concert as well.

David

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## AndyC

Any thoughts on right hand technique for choro, particularly pick grip? As a guitarist, my go to grip is pinched between thumb and index finger tip, rather than the finger side grip which most people seem to demonstrate for bluegrass playing. I'm experimenting still, any opinions though?

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## Al Bergstein

try looking at :56 1:28 and 3:09 of this segment from the longer video you reference. Has a lot of close ups throughout the video.  I never tire of listening to this. 1973. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xask...7678C10FDBECF7

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## Al Bergstein

Just stumbled on this beautifully done version of Jacob's Ternura.  Vitor Casagrande seems to do a wonderful job of dynamics on this.

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Amy Burcham, 

DSDarr

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## AndyC

I've been meaning to study some more of his playing, he has a superb command of dynamics and phrasing! His group Agua De Vintem have plenty of videos on Youtube.

Fresh off the press, Grant Ziolkowski with Heitor Garcia and John Beard. I met John a few years ago and I have always enjoyed jamming with him, he's encouraged me to dig into choro a lot this year, so thanks John! Here's two sets from the Whiskey Lounge a week ago, lots of Jacob tunes.

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## AndyC

Another 2 accompaniments from the Chediak No.1 Book - Jacob's _Implicante_ and _Bole-bole_.

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Al Bergstein, 

des

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## Mishkyn

Muito Legal!

Keep goin'on

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## Nick Royal

Choro Das 3 will be performing in Santa Cruz Sunday June 21st, so I would imagine they will make a visit to the Symposium the 
following week too. Their mandolinist is Elisa Meyer, who not only plays that instrument, but others as well!

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Amy Burcham

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## AndyC

Anyone have special string choices for their bandolims? 

When purchased mine had some heavy flatwounds which I kept on there for a year or so (I wasn't seriously into playing it then). Last September when I started taking it more seriously, I put on a set of J74s and the sound blossomed instantly. Unfortunately, the beautiful ring on the G and D didn't last long; they sounded dead after a couple of weeks or 1-2 hours per day.

Christmas brought me a set of Elixir Nanoweb lights. As many have suggested the original tone for the wound strings is not quite as bright as the D'Addarios in a straight side by side, but the longevity is there. I wouldn't be changing them yet were it not for taking it in for a proper set up. The gauges match well with the sets sold by Rouxinol so must be fairly close to a 'traditional' bandolim to my thinking at least. I imagine the heavier gauges are more appropriate for bluegrass playing?

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## Jim Garber

I got some Rouxinols but they didn't sound in tune for some reason esp on the g course. It might not be the strings tho -- might be the mandolin. I switched to Elixir Nanoweb lights and that worked out better. I think the gauge is similar to the Rouxinols.

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## Al Bergstein

I had a friend bring back a box of Rouxinols from Brazil. Dudu told me that they are not very well made, that from batch to batch they can have flaws or break easier, though I've never experienced it. I believe that he has changed to J's as well, though he may be on something else now. I'll ask him in April at the workshop. I have really liked the Rouxinols, they give my bandolim a very good sound. Jim, I would have the course of your G checked. I was having similar problems on my Collings F5, and my friend/luthier found a flaw in the depth of the groove at the bridge. Once fixed the problem vanished. Your problem with the G might be because the Roxs are smaller diameter than regular us strings, they may be bringing out the issue.

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## Jim Garber

> Jim, I would have the course of your G checked. I was having similar problems on my Collings F5, and my friend/luthier found a flaw in the depth of the groove at the bridge. Once fixed the problem vanished. Your problem with the G might be because the Roxs are smaller diameter than regular us strings, they may be bringing out the issue.


I still have that batch of Rouxinols from that order that (I think) you were part of. I will check the bridge. It is maddening and I find that now with the Elixirs I have similar problem, so you may be right. I did have a luthier look at it a few years ago. I wonder if a new compensated bridge would be the final solution.

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## AndyC

Enjoying string chat, more to say soon.

Epoca de ouro (what remains of Jacob's original backing band) do a live streaming event every Monday, starts in a little over an hour from now. Portuguese language but tghg the music is universal!

http://radios.ebc.com.br/epoca-de-ou...va-da-carreira

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## Al Bergstein

Jim, my luthier had to look very very closely as Elmer Fudd would say.

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## Jim Garber

> Epoca de ouro (what remains of Jacob's original backing band) do a live streaming event every Monday, starts in a little over an hour from now. Portuguese language but tghg the music is universal!
> 
> http://radios.ebc.com.br/epoca-de-ou...va-da-carreira


Andy: the link you put there says it is on Saturday (I think). What time on Monday do you hear it and what time zone are you in?

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## AndyC

Jim - the show has been on the last couple weeks at 7pm GMT on Mondays, but there's a break this week because it's carnaval in Brazil! This week's show is on Saturday. 

The video streaming and live playing happens on Mondays, and then the show is aired on the radio on Saturdays, if my pigeon portuguese serves me correctly.

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## AndyC

One more because it's been a while.

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## timfowler

Great thread!    Did I see reference to some Choro Backing tracks?    I'd love to get a hold of those!    I made one recently, but a lot of work!.

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## AndyC

https://www.soundcloud.com/andrewmichaelcarter

Go easy on me   :Smile:

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Al Bergstein

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## Jim Garber

> One more because it's been a while.


I could not see the video... Maybe this works?

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## Jim Garber

Hey, Andy... I love the tone you are getting from your bandolim -- I assume it is a Brazilian-made instrument? Who made yours? Nice playing as well.

I mostly play a maple one built in 1998 by Manoel Andrade, who I believe passed away a few years ago.

A few of us who live north of New York City are getting together to play tomorrow evening. I have been listening to choro for many years but never have anyone local to play with. I am hoping this will work out. Everyone is an accomplished musician in other genres but this will be initially a slow jam to see how it all works out. We have a small handful of tunes to start with.

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AndyC

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## AndyC

Hi Jim, that's very kind of you to say so! I'm working on my technique all the time, both with the instrument and in the home studio so any suggestions gratefully received.

My bandolim has an unusual story, and it is in the workshop right now so is a good a time as any to tell it!

I started really digging in to choro around 2 years ago after my experiences at California Brazil Camp. I have played cavaquinho for around five years, and enjoyed accompanying samba/pagode. But the choro melodies just got stuck in my head! Trying to play the melodies on a cavaquinho was a frustrating experience, so I stayed on the look out for a bandolim. Having not seen one in the UK for about six months, I was resigned to purchasing unseen from a Brazilian luthier and suffering the accompanying taxes.

By a chance Google search I found a bandolim for sale at New Acoustic Gallery (NAG) in Germany. They sell instruments by Collings, Ellis and the like. This bandolim had been made by Hermann Graefe, a German luthier. Hermann opens his instrument workshop for people to make their own instruments, and he had two people approach him to make bandolins. Not knowing all that much, he did some research and built a prototype, which is the instrument I eventually bought. So there are three in existence as far as I know! I paid around 1000 EUR which really is a steal considering the quality of the instrument. It comes highly recommended by Tim Connell who played it in NAG on a visit to Germany, and basically sold me on it via email.



More photos here, click pictures and click right about ten times to get there:
http://www.sailing-strings.de/

I have had a few emails back and forth with Hermann, and he's a fantastic guy! I would highly recommend him to anyone in Europe trying to source a bandolim and running out of luck.

*Jim* - hope your roda went well, which tunes did you choose to play?

For anyone who read all of that, have a couple new backing tracks as a reward! Lamentos, Brejeiro and Sonoroso.

https://soundcloud.com/andrewmichaelcarter

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Mishkyn

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## Justin Carvitto

[QUOTE

I mostly play a maple one built in 1998 by Manoel Andrade, who I believe passed away a few years ago.
[/QUOTE]

What do you think of your bandolim? I'm having Pedro Santos build me one now with maple upon his recommendation. I was going to go with beech but I'm going to listen to the luthier on this one. I'm sure I'll be happy with anything that doesn't sound like an F-5. 

great thread.

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## AndyC

Justin - FYI mine is spruce top with maple back and sides. Or the other way around, I forget...but no beech in sight.

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## Jim Garber

Never heard of beech for back and sides. Maple is generally the preferred wood for the back and sides AFAIK, mainly for the more cutting sound. Rosewood is prob a bit mellower but to compete with other instruments not as good.

I do see that "faia" translates to beech but I do wonder if that is the same beech that we in the US know. Woods are sometimes called different things -- I suppose the best would be to find out the Latin name. Then again, if Mr. Santos recommends maple, I would go with that.

The 10 string I have seen Dudu Maia play with was made by *Pedro Santos*. If I were buying one right now, I would consider one of his.

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## Jim Garber

> *Jim* - hope your roda went well, which tunes did you choose to play?


We are meeting this afternoon. Andy, do you have other musicians to play with where you are?

Initial list is culled from potential players and what they were working on:
AssanhadoBenzinhoBrejeiroCochichandoDiabinho MalucoNao Me Toques (Am)*Receita de SambaTico Tico

*It is interesting... most of the tunes are generally played in one standard key but Nao Me Toques seems to be played in D minor (by Jacob) but in A minor also. I guess the A minor version is a bit easier on the mandolin. I have sheet music in both keys. 

I generally go with the Chediak white books for most tunes (NMT is D minor in those) but players in this group are playing in A minor.

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## Justin Carvitto

Andy and Jim,

Yeah, my order is with maple back and sides with european spruce with the 10 string model. I'm going basic with no pearl inlay to save cost.

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## DSDarr

Justin,

Looking forward to checking our bandolim one of these days! 

see ya, David

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## AndyC

A nice mix of tunes there! I think Pixinguinha is easily neglected by bandolinistas, glad to see him included. Acerta o passo is another fine one of his.

 If you are ever near Brooklyn go to check out Regional de NY if you haven't already. A fine bunch of choroes if there ever was one.

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## Mishkyn

I began yesterday to find out the guitar part to make myself a backing track for "lamentos".
Don't need it anymore! 

Thank you for sharing :o)

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## AndyC

De nada! Let me know if you have any requests.

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## AndyC

Epoca de Ouro live streaming tonight:

http://radios.ebc.com.br/epoca-de-ou...atros-cariocas

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## Al Bergstein

> https://www.soundcloud.com/andrewmichaelcarter
> 
> Go easy on me


WOW thanks ever so much! Is there a reason that some of the songs can't be downloaded? Or did you just forget?

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## AndyC

I only put the backing tracks (sans bandolim) available for download, figured no one wanted a downloadable recording of my patchy bandolim playing!

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## mportinari



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Al Bergstein, 

t.drexel

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## Jim Garber

mportinari: Thanks for that video. Hamilton has a nice be-bopized playing style here. I love him with the piano. Excellent. They seem to quote a few standard repertoire tunes as well.

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## AndyC

A couple more tracks if you like to play along. These are taken from Chediak Book 1. I've been meaning to learn Doce de Coco properly for a long time, so here it is. Lingua de preto is a flute tune really so takes a little adapting for bandolim in standard tuning.

I'm half way through recording Ingenuo, but it's taxing my 7 string playing to the limit so little by little on that one I feel.

Let me know if you use/enjoy these tracks.

https://soundcloud.com/andrewmichaelcarter/doce-de-coco

https://soundcloud.com/andrewmichael...-preto-backing

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Gary Leonard

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## DSDarr

I was unfamiliar with "Lingua de Preto" until yesterday -- but Almir Côrtes and João Paulo Amaral played this at a workshop yesterday and then again at a house concert last night at my house. Interesting tune -- a lot of notes!

David

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## Al Bergstein

I think I'll save Lingua de Preto for some future life...and that was an amazing piece of choro by Hamilton and Stefano Bollani. Wow. Had to listen to it twice... just really fun to listen to. I see that Bollani has played with Chick Corea. Ok. Now I get it

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## AndyC

A couple more, because it's still the holidays.  :Smile:  Some Nazareth for a change of pace.

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Al Bergstein, 

Flame Maple, 

Mishkyn

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## Jim Garber

Thanks a lot, Andy! Any chance you can make those files downloadable like the other backing ones?

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## AndyC

Seeing as you asked so nicely Jim...

I'd like to hear your take on one of these tunes, maybe post a recording?

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## Jim Garber

Thanks once again for creating these files. I can try but playing up to Brazilian speed is an uphill battle for me. My best tune, played daily, is Diabinho Maluco, but I could not keep up with your backup. I will have to slow it down. It might take me some time to get this done. Patience...

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## AndyC

> Thanks once again for creating these files. I can try but playing up to Brazilian speed is an uphill battle for me. My best tune, played daily, is Diabinho Maluco, but I could not keep up with your backup. I will have to slow it down. It might take me some time to get this done. Patience...


Keep it a secret... I speeded up my recording because my seven string playing isn't good enough yet. I'll send you the original.

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## Jim Garber

Your seven string playing sounds wonderful. It is great that you can play  the other instruments as well. I figure I slow the backup tracks down with ASD.

Your secret is safe with me...  :Smile:

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## AndyC

Jim - is there a track you'd like some backing for? If it were me I would just play Jacob tunes all day, but I should branch out a little!

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## AndyC

I've been away from choro for a little while, but now holidays are here, time for more backing tracks. A little Pixinguinha to start things off: *Os cinco companheiros.*



And as a bonus, Elias Barboza plays Gnattali's Suite Retratos with orchestra.

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## Justin Carvitto

Does anyone have the sheet music for Araponga and the chart for Ciumento?

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Flame Maple

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## Mishkyn

I have the sheet for araponga, give me your mail in private message and I'll send it.
For Ciumento, I'll have to look deeper!

- - - Updated - - -

I have the sheet for araponga, give me your mail in private message and I'll send it.
For Ciumento, I'll have to look deeper!

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## Mishkyn

Here are the chords for Ciumento? :
A
||: G | % | F#7 | % | B7 | %| Em | % |
Bb° | C#° | G | % | A7 | % | D7 | % |
G | % | F#7 | % | B7 | %| F7 | E7 |
Am | F7 | G | E7 | A7 | D7 | G | G :||
B
||: B7/Eb Em | B7/F# | Em/G | E7/G#  Am | E7 | Am E7/B | Am/C |
% | D7 | G | G7 | C7 | % | B7 | % |
B7/Eb Em | B7/F# | Em/G | E7/G#  Am | E7 | Am E7/B | Am/C |
% | D7 | G | C7 | F7 | B7 | Em |1 % :||2 D7 to A

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