# Technique, Theory, Playing Tips and Tricks > Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks >  Double Stops for newer players

## pickloser

While recuperating from an injury, I began working on a sort of primer on double stops.  If you have successfully incorporated double stops into your playing, then none of this will be new to you.  If you have not been using double stops, then I hope you will find it helpful.  

I have posted some of this before in another thread.  I have made a lot of corrections and added several new sections, and I thought it would be best to repost the first parts with the new parts.  I have outlined sections on minor chord double stops and dominant 7 double stops, but those will have to wait until after mandolin kamp.  

I would appreciate corrections and suggestions.  Happy pickin'!

----------

BarlyG

----------


## pickloser

and here's the last part:

----------

BarlyG

----------


## TNT

Very cool!.. I just took a quick look at the files but it all seems wery well done..  and a lot of information. Thank you!

----------


## Dave Weiss

Thank you very much  :Smile:

----------


## Marty Henrickson

Thanks!

----------


## Mandophyte

PickL,

Many thanks!

John

----------


## Phil Goodson

Laura,

You've done a great job!!
I guess people eventually find these things if they play long enough and seek out the relationships.
But you have given the mando world a way to communicate about doublestops that I've never heard anyone else have a good substitute for.

I can imagine 20 years from now, a teacher telling the student to go from the G uptent to the C stretchy.  Makes sense.  Easy to talk about.  
Stick a cover page on and you've got a valuable book for the ages.

Thanks for all your work.  Can't wait to discuss all this with you in more detail at KK.

----------


## Alex Orr

Funny.  I actually started a mandolin related blog a week or two back for a class I'm taking on basic types of web-publishing.  I did a video showing some of the same things but never got around to making an accompanying document.  If I had, it would have looked a LOT like what you did Laura.  That makes me feel good for a couple of reasons.  First off, it shows me that my observations on movable double stop shapes weren't wacko.  :Laughing:   But more importantly, it puts out a really well-done set of charts for folks to reference and work from.  Good work!  :Cool: 

P.S. - The video I made showing a basic outline of double stop shapes is at: 

http://basicmandolinlessons.blogspot.com/

Once again, great work.

----------


## pickloser

Thanks y'all for the kind words.  I know I didn't discover anything new; I think my only contributions were deciding to name double stops (along with my friend Jason) and writing up what I learned.  I know the write up is repetitive, but that's how I get things best.  

I do think names for double stops is the way to go.  We found it so much more easy to share discoveries--runs and licks starting and/or ending with double stops and moves between double stops--after we had named the stops.  

And Phil, if in 20 years I hear somebody use any of these names, I will be tickled (hopefully not to death).

----------


## Alex Orr

Ooops.  The blog I mentioned is at 

http://meandmymandolin.blogspot.com/

For some reason I can't edit my old post.  I thought there was supposed to be an edit button in this forum  :Confused:   Seems to me like I've been allowed to edit all my other posts for the least couple of years.  Did they get rid of the edit option?  :Frown:

----------


## pickloser

I got a request for a hard copy of this guide and was surprised to see my scale tone numbers just floating on the page without a grid.  It's fine as it is, if you don't want a hard copy.  If you do want to print any of it, you will need to insert the grid.  (I have no idea how I ended up with blue grids that don't print.)  Open it in Word.  Click on "Table" at the top and click on "Draw Table" on the drop down menu.  A floating box will appear, titled "Tables and Borders."  On the right side of the table, the icon next to the very end will show a little box.  Click on that, and choose the fully filled in with grid lines box.  Highlight any fret board grid you want to print and click on the gridded box in the Tables and Borders box.  The fretboard grid will fill in with the appropriate lines.  The Tables and Borders box will remain, letting you fill in the grids for all the boxes by highlighting the blue non-gridded fretboard and clicking on the filled in grid icon.  There's probably an easier way to do this, but I don't know it.  

Sorry about that.  :Redface:

----------


## mandroid

Given : 3 note chords are a combination of 2 double stops 
 if Major, the interval between the 1st 2 are Major ,
the 2nd 2 are minor , with a minor chord it's the opposite . 

so as the  notes of  a scale  are harmonized naturally , stacking 1-3-5 on each,
 my one theory  class told me they are ...  [M]or major [m] for minor 
MmmMMm, (diminished for the 7th).

so, you should know by now,
  2 notes on 2 strings at the same fret , side by side 
the higher one is a 5th up
the lower one is a 4th down . 

your open GMaj chord is dgbg, 1531
 shifting the B down a fret makes it a minor chord 

play around with just the major minor sound of neighboring  strings as you go up the scale .

Hope that may be useful for those [Macs]with out the ability to use a MS word document.

----------


## Pete Braccio

You can open a MS Word document in Word for Mac, the free TextEdit program that comes with Mac OSX, and various other programs on a Mac.

Pete

----------


## pickloser

Thanks Pete.  I'm gonna try and get somebody to turn my Word doc into a PDF file.  I don't have the software.  (And even if I did, I'm not sure I could do it with my very limited skills.)

----------


## Rick Albertson

You can easily make PDFs with Word (at least on a Mac). Simply access the Print Dialogue box, as if you are going to print the given document. At the bottom of the Dialogue box will be a PDF button. Clicking on that will create a PDF of the document.

Rick

----------


## pickloser

I don't have a MAC.  

(I feel like I'm in a commercial, and I'm the klutzy inept PC guy.)

I would welcome it, if somebody wants to fill in those grid lines and convert the thing to pdf or whatever works for whomever.

----------


## Marc Berman

Here you go. I wasn't sure if you wanted the original separate doc's or one new pdf so I stuck with the separate ones.

----------


## Marc Berman

Here's the last one.

----------


## pickloser

Thanks Marc!

There's still no fretboard grid under a lot of the examples, but I think folks can still get the idea.  If you want the grids filled in with lines, you'll have to use the original word documents and fill those in.  I noted one way to do that a couple of posts up.

----------


## Phil Goodson

Here's a pdf as a single file.  I think all the fretboard grids are visible.

----------


## Chris Keth

> Here's a pdf as a single file.  I think all the fretboard grids are visible.



It checks out on my machine. Thanks Philphool for compiling it and thank you Pickloser for writing. I'm looking forward to diving in when I have a chance.

----------


## lespaul_79

Nice work  on the PDF. Here is a lesson I made for my students on G double stops. I'm sure there are some things that could be tweaked. But here ya go.
http://www.mandomedia.net/Assets/oth...leStops101.pdf

----------


## LarryMando

most discussion re doubles stops revolve around the fretting hand - my question is re the pick hand - - I assume a DS is picking two strings simultaneously (as compared to picking one string and finger plucking the other)

Any tips on how to perfect right hand?

(is the right hand DS guitar flatpicking also picking two strings at same time?)

----------


## Phil Goodson

> most discussion re doubles stops ...re the pick hand - - I assume a DS is picking two strings simultaneously ...
> Any tips on how to perfect right hand?
> ...


I usually treat a double stop the same as a single string.  A single down stroke hitting both strings, or multiple downstrokes or down & up strokes.  Or even more commonly, using tremolo.

----------


## JeffD

> I usually treat a double stop the same as a single string.  A single down stroke hitting both strings, or multiple downstrokes or down & up strokes.  Or even more commonly, using tremolo.


Yes, tremolo'ed double stops can sound fantastic, and are something other instrument really can't do, so it sounds very "mandolinny".

----------


## Alex Orr

> Yes, tremolo'ed double stops can sound fantastic, and are something other instrument really can't do, so it sounds very "mandolinny".


Agreed.  I've been working really hard at double string tremolo for the last couple of months and I love how much I've been able to use it to add to my playing.

----------


## Capt. E

What a very nice method you have built to understand double stops. So far I find it a very fresh look at the subject. Thanks so much.

----------


## Frank Johnson

Thank you! I downloaded it so's I can study it later, but it looks like it's just what the doctor ordered!

----------


## Mandolincelli

Hi Pickloser:

This is my first posting on Mandolincafe although I've been visiting the site for about a year. I just wanted to say thank you for such a creative and user-friendly articulation of double stops. Your visual metaphors really work for me and this really fills the gaps in my understanding of double stops. Thank you thank you thank you!

Mandolincelli

----------


## EggyToast

This is a great resource... but did you have to use ComicSans?  Ugh!  ;D

----------


## Rick Cadger

I missed this before.

What a great job, PickL, and generously shared

I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people.

----------


## pickloser

> This is a great resource... but did you have to use ComicSans? Ugh! ;D


To each his own, Uggy.  You can download the Word documents (please don't tell me you have a Mac) and put it in whatever font you prefer.  I'm glad you like it, otherwise.  

Thanks Rick!  

I'm gonna try and get more written up after Kaufman mando camp, but if you want to do more with the double stops, pay particular attention to where the 1s, 3s, and 5s fall in each stop.  For example, flat 3 to natural 3 in a two-spacer stop is lots of fun and very useful.  Try sliding from the 3b to the 3 and then catching the 1 right after.  Sounds cool.  With Uptent, try 5 to flat 5 and vice versa.  Make any double stop with a 1 note a dom7th double stop by taking the 1 note down two frets.  Tiny, slid (is that a verb?) one fret toward the nut and then another fret toward the nut, also makes a nice major to dom7th transition.  

Notice also that the 1/5 stops sound good with the relative minor, since there's no 3 note to conflict.  And, if you start associating, for example, A major's two-spacer with a tab of 4 on the A string and 7 on the D string, and B's two-spacer with 6 and 9, you automatically go to the correct spot on the fretboard without a lot of counting.  I don't much like tab anyway, but I really disliked reading tab that had doublestops.

I'm not trying to make out like I'm an expert.  I most certainly am not.
Laura

----------


## Jim Nollman

It was interesting to read your double stop notes, PickL. Very nice work. And for your information, it opened easy as pie on my mac. 

Yesterday, I received, in the mail from Amazon.com, the first mandolin technique book I've ever bought: a Mel Bay publication about cross picking. I think what you are writing about here, is every bit as valuable as that book, and just as well laid out. Actually the two themes of cross picking and double stops, would make ideal companions for any serious mando player looking for new ideas. After a cursory reading of the pages you posted, I also think that your language flows better than in the cross picking book. I say that as the author of several published books.

I do encourage you keep writing about double stops, and maybe include a bit more info about odd double stops in odd modes, (for example, mixolydian double stops, and maybe even something about moving double stops for us chromatic scale players). When you get it just right, and complete in your own mind, you might even consider submitting it to Mel Bay. It is that good.

----------


## hattio

Jim,
    Can you let folks know what you think of the cross-picking book, and tell me whether it comes with an audio CD?  Thanks.

----------


## JeffW

Just wanted to say thanks to pickloser for creating and posting the doublestop primer!  I started reading the material last night, and although I haven't made it all the way to the end, I already know that the information has "stuck".

A very creative approach that is very helpful for me.

Thanks again,
Jeff

----------


## Matt DeBlass

Kudos to both LesPaul and Pickloser for helping us poor beginners out!

----------


## jackslad

Excellent thread. Thank you for the info and the PDF

----------


## mug

I am using it for the fiddle also. Thanks alot for makeing it in bite size peices thats easy to digest and apply.

----------


## nhanduti

Thanks!!!

----------


## Ivan Kelsall

Here's a 'practice sheet' that i posted in a previous thread. Nothing like having more than one
visual aid,
            Ivan

----------


## Michael Gowell

Thanks Ivan.  I had previously worked out personalized 4 x 6 charts for each key w/ diff. chord forms & sequences, favorite slides & double stops, tho' I used the number notation - G is 7523.  When someone in a jam called for a seldom-used key I could flick to that card & remind myself of fingerings.  With your chord charts I printed them out & superimposed some alt. fingerings in different colored pencil - a visual impression rather than the longer process of "thinking it through."  A good "aha" moment for me.

You're right - another aid can't hurt.  I can't believe the thick stacks of material I've printed off this site & keep by subject folders under my coffee table (bachelor giveaway!)

"Give a boy a bird dog and a fiddle and he's ruint, Just Ruint."  - New England

----------


## dhuttonsr

It's going to take me some time to absorb all of this as I am just starting to read tab and play more bluegrass songs as the guy who helped me get started done a lot of gospel (Most of which i already knew) which made it easy to play them. Knew how the song sounded but had no idea how to play them till I found Jack Tuttle's two books full of bluegrass and tabs. Sure is a lot to learn how to do, but I am having a time of my life learning all of this music. Wish I started at a younger age but I am still learning at age 59 while working 63-70 hrs a week driving a big truck(semi) and getting some practice time while waiting to get unloaded...   dhuttonsr@gmail.com

----------


## Kay Kirkpatrick

PickL, the 2 members who PDFd her work, LesPaul, and Ivan: thanks so much for your contributions. And to dhut - thanks for resurrecting this thread. I missed it the first time through.

----------


## Jesse Harmon

Thanks to all-----what an amazing contribution, esp for us getting started on this instrument.

----------


## Loretta Callahan

> PickL, the 2 members who PDFd her work, LesPaul, and Ivan: thanks so much for your contributions. And to dhut - thanks for resurrecting this thread. I missed it the first time through.


What Kay said!  Thanks so much to you all!!

----------


## Ronbob

The quality and the amount of work that went into this is amazing!  For a newer player like myself,  this is really helpful.
What is also amazing is  you started this thread and other added to it and made the whole thing functional regardless of the  computer hardware and geek skills.hardware
Thanks, Ronbob

----------


## Phil Goodson

> PickL, the 2 members who PDFd her work, LesPaul, and Ivan: thanks so much for your contributions. And to dhut - thanks for resurrecting this thread. I missed it the first time through.


You're welcome! :Grin: 

Seriously, my thanks go to Pickloser, who revolutionized my way of remembering and using double stops on the fly.   Her clever naming system just stuck in my head immediately and I could see the patterns on the fingerboard like I never could before going through her explanations.  This was several years ago now, and I still find myself thinking of "moving from a 2 spacer to a stretchy" or just playing a lead riff out of a "stretchy" position.  "Downtents" are a special group to themselves in my mind.  They took a while to "see" and I still find myself making new discoveries about these patterns.

Thanks again Pickloser! :Mandosmiley:

----------

