# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Ellis vs. collings mf5v

## pjlama

Hi folks I know asking opinions on sound is silly but here goes. I was getting serious about the MF5VD but than got an MM. I still want something a little different. After speaking to someone very knowledgable I've been really thinking the Ellis would be the ticket. I'd like feedback from owners on both plus folks who've played them both.

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## mandopete

Describe "different". #We've had quite a few threads here on the cafe that compare the Gibson and Collings sound and I think they really compliment each other. #That's why I've opted to keep my Flatiron (sounds Gibsony to me) along with my Collings. #I can't speak for the sound of an Ellis, but the pictures I've seen make them look pretty nice. #Hard to imagine that they wouldn't sound just as nice too.

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## Jonathan Peck

Dunno, but if you're looking at the smoky mountain guitar website, they have my vote for the most creative and misleading add copy on the internet. Looks like every mandolin they sell is the greatest on the planet. Me thinks they've kissed the Blarney Stone, but then again, if you read it on the internet....it must be true 

chop that can be felt in the soles of your shoes

a pure cannon that will take charge in a jam session.

Make one G chop and all your questions will be answered as you will hear and feel the domineering power because this baby will set grass fires and split 2x8s. 

This is a very limited edition with this special wood and one like this is indeed a rare find.

exploding volume, go thru you chop, great balance, melted butter playability,

The chop is such that can be heard over the loudest guitars & banjos and when warming it up it takes over.

Outstanding sounding mandolin with tremendous power and a G chop that will knock leaves from a tree.

if total power is what you want in a jam session then this is the answer as it is extremely hard to stand in front of this Bad Boy for any length of time.

STAND BACK!!! This is an ICBM with total domineering power and when striking an A chop will boil water

Make a G chop and it can be heard in the next county. The midrange that you want to make those pesky banjos self destruct is in here along with those piercing highs and sustain that will get you noticed very quickly with people asking you Man what kind of mandolin is that? 

Remember Mount St. Helens when it erupted? You will re-live that moment as soon as you make a G chop on this incredible instrument. Awesome power with an E string that rings so strong it will crack concrete and a D string that will singe hair so we looked for a volume control but there is none. 

This one will measure 9.5 on the Richter scale when you make the G chop as you will experience The Quake move thru you because this is one of the most powerful instruments we have ever picked up and played. 

Before you play this one make sure you are strapped in because the power of this baby is going to move something.

Then there is the G chop once this is struck its pretty much over but move up to the A chop then it will defrost a roast.

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9lbShellhamer, 

CHASAX

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## Doug Edwards

I got to hold and play Earl's Ellis at the Argyle festival. Flawless fit and finish. The mandolin was only a few months old so I do not think its tone had fully developed. A nice mandolin to say the least.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....l+ellis

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## SternART

Crunch.....those Smoky Mountain guys obviously learned from the best.....the way Mandolin Bros. does their descriptions......

PJ......I'd go with the Ellis.......I played VERY nice examples the past two years at Loarfest. Tom is a great
guy to boot......YMMV but since you asked for opinions......there is mine!

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## soapycows

I have a Collings and I have played quite a few Ellis mandolins (he lives here in Austin and I see him at jams, sometimes with a spanking new mandolin).
I love my Collings and it sounds great, don't get me wrong, but those Ellis mandolins are something truly special. You would be happy with either, but every Ellis I have seen is incredible.

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## testore

You can't compare the two. Toms work is off the charts and he's not a factory. He's a great guy also. Buy the Ellis and never look back.

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## Jonathan Peck

> Crunch.....those Smoky Mountain guys obviously learned from the best.....the way Mandolin Bros. does their descriptions......


Aye...the Captain of Crunch says...MB copy is just stupid in an I'm trying to be funny kind of way, SMG copy is bordeline misleading and questionable IMHO.

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## Jonathan Peck

Hmmm, maybe I should take that back..I submit for your opinion two add copies from two separate vendors.

"Collings MF-5 Mandolin
Description: Collings MF5 Mandolin  New  Adirondack spruce top, highly flamed Maple back, sides and neck. This instrument is truly one that is outstanding in regards to volume, tone, sheer power and appearance. The chop is such that can be heard over the loudest guitars & banjos and when warming it up it takes over. The flame is simply beautiful and as always the craftsmanship is impeccable. This instrument is the total package and will inspire you when you hit the first string. Priced with hard case."


"Collings (new) MF-5 Varnish mandolin #F437, with hard shell case. 
At the highest level of production luthiery is situated the Collings Mandolin Factory, a subdivision of the Collings acoustic and electric guitar factory. Manned by actual human beings wearing white lab coats with gold-plated stethoscopes around their necks, Collings mandolins are made in a rarified atmosphere of 21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen in fully controlled humidity mixed with a small amount of carbon dioxide, argon and, yes, well, trace methane from the adjacent cattle farm. The woods chosen by Mr. Collings for this one-model-under-the-top-of-the-line are highly figured maple for the two-piece back, the ivoroid-black-ivoroid bordered sides and the one-piece likewise bound deep-U shaped neck. Tuners are so fancy, deeply engraved and gold-plated with ivoroid buttons and gold screws that most of the guys on our staff have been buying them to wear as a neck ornament. The carved spruce top is so closely grained that there is a veritable eddy of cross-silking (a medullary whirlpool) at the center below the bridge, that, while having no effect on the staff has sucked two of our white mice (we train them to sing first tenor in the bluegrass quartet) into the maelstrom. The black, ivoroid-bordered, headplate hosts the script Collings logo and the intertwined flourish of festivity inlaid below, with the spearpoint ebony adjustable truss rod cover there under. The ebony fingerboard with its asymmetrical south end is inlaid with 6 mother of pearl dots of decreasing size. The bridge is two-piece, ebony, adjustable with gold-plated elevators. The tailpiece is likewise gold-plated and quick-change, the elevated ebony pickguard is ivoroid bordered and the tailpin is ebony. This mandolin enunciates each note and chord with dense, woody, acoustic jubilation  it makes everything you can play on it sound the way that other, older F-5 mandolin sounded in the hands of the Father of Bluegrass. It accomplishes, in a way that few other new mandolins can, the recreation of the auditory satisfaction last felt when Lloyd Loar took his Christmas turkey and set out into the night, jobless, but with kaleidoscopic dreams of continued artful acoustic engineering reflecting off of his eyeglasses into the crisp winter evening on Christmas Day in 1924 Kalamazoo."

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## lawdawg

By far the best sounding, playing and looking mandolin I've ever played was a used Ellis @ Smoky Mtn Guitars. He also had a Gilchrist, several Collings, Gibsons, Flatbush-s and a Chek mando ??. Ellis blew them all away. I wish I could afford one right now.

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## mandomick

I think the descriptions on the SMG site are refreshingly different and entertaining. I haven't bought a mandolin from them (yet) but from what I understand they have a fair return policy. It's not like a used car "There's an ### for every seat" deal.

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## 64lusso

I have Ellis #89, I bought it after playing a friends (#81??) off in corner at a noisy jam, it is a well put together mandolin and looks wonderful, the neck is slightly wider/larger than normal and with the arched fingerboard and perhaps one of the better set-up jobs I have seen on a new mandolin it is second only to my Monty B in ease of playability. It has a wonderful balanced sound from new and I am looking forward to it as it ages as I am sure it will only get better. I bought mine from Gruhn's and hadn't seen those adds the Cap'n is referring too, their claims are way over the top IMHO but you can be sure of getting a fine instrument with the Ellis. On the other hand the only Collings I have played was an A and it was a few years ago but I remember being very impressed with it so if you are not able to compare the two in the same room it makes it a tough decision but you will most likely have a fine axe either way.

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## SternART

64lusso......been meaning to ask, is your cafe name your ride?

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## woodysny

Well, I played an Ellis right next to my Collings Varnish Deluxe and the Collings was far superior in tone to my taste. The Ellis was beautifully crafted and certainly a fine mandolin. The one I had was from SMG, but I played another at Gruhn's and it sounded pretty much the same. I did not like the rounded neck on the Ellis either. The Ellis is a pretty good value (if $10,500 can be considered a value) but my preference from head-to-head testing is for Gilchrist, Heiden, and Collings MF5-VD.

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## jaco

These guys are in this buisness to SELL. They also have overhead, rent, morigage, insurance, electric etc. etc. Do you expect them to say" a so so mandolin that is way overpriced, may want to think about this one, but if you want it, it's yours!" Come on, if an instrument is good I have no problem with somebody trying to sell it. When those descriptions apply to an obvious piece of junk then we have a problem.

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## Crowder

I've spoken with Dan at Smoky Mtn. Guitars about the Ellis mandolins, and he's convinced they are the top of the heap right now. Not to say he doesn't have a financial interest, but he knows good when he sees it. His descriptions of the Passernig mandolins are glowing as well, yet the one I got from him exceeded my expectations. 

Being a financial advisor and recognizing that $10,000 is a lot of money for almost anyone to spend on an instrument, I would point out that Collings seem to drift down in value while you might expect an Ellis to move up. There will never be a shortage of Collings mandolins, that's for sure.

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## Don Grieser

Anybody remember the picture of that quilted mando back in the old Frets magazine? That was an Ellis. Based on the memory of that picture alone, I'd go for the Ellis. I've only played one and it was a keeper.

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## Chris Biorkman

Nice, Captain. Finally there are words to express my love for my MF-5. That was hilarious. I thought I was the only one wearing a mother of pearl tuning knob as a necklace. By the way, what exactly is a medullary whirlpool?

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## Monte37

Hey soapycow. Howard, where you been?
Whoa, a comparison between a Collings and an Ellis..? Collings has provided to the increased market for mando's by offering product range and costs to meet what we'all got while providing a great mando...and if my info is current, you also buy into some of Tom's handicraft with the inlay.

Tom's mando's give me the urge to believe I have the do ri me to own one of his. His are individual pieces of art, gawd those quilt backs are somethin. 

I have to take a high road here a bit and say "what a fun problem to have in deciding between a Collings and an Ellis" if you have the opportunity. Along with all the other great buiders, there is so much more offered now than when I bought mine. Personally, the Ellis mando gives me, what is that...MAS? makes me write bad checks. Now is the time to get them before they go through the roof.

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## ninevah

Without a doubt, I'd go for the Ellis.
These could possibly be the best all around buy today.
The very finest workmanship, flawless. Excellent wood, outrageous figure in the maple. The inlay is the very best, he's the man who does the inlay for most of the biggy guitar companies. Most of all Tom knows what he is doing to bring out the tone. He works on only a few instruments at a time, and knows what he does to make the sound/tone he is creating. In a bigger shop there is more time, and many instruments in between the carving of the top/back and finished instrument. How can the maker keep any of what he did initially to carve the top and back in mind when he plays the final instrument? Keeping good records of measurements maybe, but I'd be skeptical. What the larger shop falls back on is precise measurement and repeatable procedures, or in other words good engineering control. What Tom does is art, and therefore has the potential to produce a really outstanding instrument over and over.

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## pjlama

Thanks guys, I knew it was a tough question. Captain you had me cracking up LOL! Seems most folks favor the Ellis, I'm kinda leaning that way but I could get sidetracked. Don I may need to wait until you come to ABQ to try your Gil that might put me into another direction. Is the Ellis in the Gibson sound dept? I know the Collings is different. Anyway at least I got to laugh and hear some good opinions.

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## Chris Biorkman

So are you getting rid of the MM? Don't you have a RSMM on order too? I don't think you can go wrong with a Collings or an Ellis. If you are looking for a different sound than the Gibson, then the Collings might be the way to go. I've never played an Ellis, but it sounds like they are pretty close to the best out there (and that quilted maple he uses is ridiculous). I feel sorry for the terrible dilemma you have yourself in.

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## pjlama

Definetly keeping the MM it's soooo good. No this would be something a little different, something on the super clean build side with a more modern sound. I don't think the RSDMM will be in until next year at least that's the quoted time but I could get surprised. Either way since I have the Gibson thing covered I'm going for a different flavor, newer style, amazing woods, radiused, etc...

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## Rick Schmidlin

Play side by side, first you then a friend,record playback decide.

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## B. T. Walker

Ellis. #You'll never regret it. #Simply the finest mandos I've ever had in my hands.

Go Spurs Go!

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## Scotty

Let me begin by simply saying that the Ellis I have (#83-06) is just superb;craftsmanship, playability, and sound! #I have owned two Collings A models, one a special order birdseye blond, and they were very fine
instruments with a good generic mandolin sound. #The Ellis is from my perspective a definite cut above,
with that classey top tier presence. #The sound is devine! #As noted above, Tom is a master builder!

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## Jonathan Peck

It's great to hear so many 'real' positive comments from so many 'real' people. The Ellis sounds like a very good mandolin. I'm still waiting for one of my picking budies to show up with one so I can hear it up close...hope I'm not permanantly disfigured by a 'G' chop though

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## 64lusso

Not to worry Cap'n no lives or eardums--human or animal--will be hurt in the playing of an Ellis mando, was picking mine on the porch this morning before leaving for work, saw a few hawks successfully going about their hunting routines and while our African Grey parrot ruffles his feathers and sometimes tries to drown me out while I play it doesn't seem to hurt him.

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## woodysny

If you are looking for a Gil, then the '82 at Gruhn's may be the one for you. Incredible tone - best mando I have ever played (including Loars). Also played the Ellis at Gruhn's on same day. It was not close. Of course, the Gil costs a lot more. I was really tempted.............

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## pjlama

woodysny, that's what I'm looking to hear honest feedback based on playing these things back to back. Based on your little collection I think you have a feel for tone. I'm just hearing folks comparing the Ellis to a Gil and want as many opinions as possible but unless I fly to Nashville I'm just pissing in the wind. Hmmmm..... Well I'll call Gruhn's tomorrow. Anybody got a recommendation on who to speak to at Gruhn's?

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## woodysny

I don't remember the guy's name but he sat at the front counter near the mandolins. He handed me the Ellis and '82 Gil. He said the Ellis was "good", which it was; he said the Gil was "great", and it really was. As of yesterday, they were both still at Gruhn's. Probably worth a trip to Nashville to see what suits you.

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## Bill James

_"Probably worth a trip to Nashville to see what suits you."_


Just jump on that new 1098S, you'll be there in no time! #

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## pjlama

I can't keep the 1098's I need to sell them to finance mandos

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## Bradley

I was in Nashville about 4-5 weeks back picking up a MM and while in town I made my usual rounds to all of the stores in town that I know how to get to.

I went into Gruhns and they had just received the Ellis with the Fern Inlay. That thing is without a doubt one of the best Mandolins I have ever played in any price range.
I hate to say it, but if I would have seen it before I picked up the MM who knows what would have happenned. They also have 2004 MF5 that is a beast as well.

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## pjlama

Bradley, Did you play either of the Gils? I talked to Glen at Gruhn's and am going to wait until I get to try a Gil before pulling the trigger on an Ellis.

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## ninevah

You can hear an Ellis if you have the CD Mandolin Extravaganza, and hear it played in a duet with a Loar. Disc #2 cut #6 "Sassyfrass" is Buck White and Ricky Skaggs. It's a great tune. The first time I heard it I looked in the book to see what year Loar/Fern Buck's playing. Well, he's playing an Ellis, and it sounds sooooo good.

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## Bradley

When I was there the Gilchrist was upstairs and the place was really busy so I didnt bother to ask to see it.

I know we have some very loyal Gil fans, and I am not trying to start a Flame, but the Ellis that is at Gruhns is as nice as any of the 5-6 Gilchrists I have played in the last couple of years.
And its brand spankin new at $10K....heck if you dont get it I might have to make a trip back down there  

If it had a flowerpot inlay I probably would have been back already....

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## pjlama

I spoke at length to Tom Ellis today. Super nice guy. He was able to help me understand his mandolins by giving me his history and philosophy. I have an idea of where he's coming from and we share some similar ideas. I'd say I'm getting pretty darn close to an Ellis. I'm gonna try a couple Gils on Monday and than am heading up to Teluride for the festival where there's a good chance I'll run across an Ellis for the final push. If I go for an Ellis I can keep the MM if it's a Gil it's gone but I'd really prefer two different mandos. I do appreciate everyone's input it's been helpful and a chance to indulge in speculation, hearsay, subjectivity and mandolin rhetoric or just Cafe.

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## ninevah

Just checked, and the Ellis at Gruhn's is gone...someone made a good decision.

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## pjlama

Well I know I started this thread looking for a comparison between the Collings varnish and the Ellis and then somehow got sidetracked into Gils. Anywho got to play a couple Gils today an F5 and an oval... They were amazing but I realized that my MM is pretty amazing too and what I don't have is an oval and how sweet they sound for certain stuff. Long story short Ellis is still on my radar but until I can lay hands on one the MM's my main squeeze but now I'm in the market for an oval. There's a guy around here that makes a pretty nice oval and I like keeping it local so...

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## Bradley

I have had my MM for about a 4-5 weeks now and it just keeps getting better and better. I personally think that if you have a good MM that it just doesnt get any better than that. The $20K group of Gilchrist and Dudenbostal are nice but I cant see how they are any nicer than a Master Model...just my opinion and not meant to upset any Gil,or Dude owners...

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## pjlama

You're right, a good MM will hold it's own and my MM is very good. At this level it's just little things and you can't go wrong with any of the finer mandos out there. A good one is a good one no matter what's on the headstock, when you start getting into big bucks they're mostly good ones. I'm looking forward to hearing and playing more of these top tier instruments but like I said my MM is pretty fine. I am still wanting to try an Ellis though, Tom if there's any undesireables that need tossing my address is ######

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## Don Grieser

Once you get to a certain level of mandolins, you start paying more for ever smaller perceived differences/increases in tone/playability/workmanship/what-have-you. The law of diminishing returns. Mandolins all have different voices and that's what makes it so much fun! Once you find a mandolin with a voice that speaks to you, grab it and don't let it get away. You've got a great MM--that midrange punch is awesome.

Glad to hear you caught the oval bug, PJ. It's a different voice and one I really enjoy.

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## pjlama

OK, here's the end of this story for me;
I started asking this question because I heard these two mandos were very well made and sounded great. I could also deal with the price and I didn't want to wait a year or more on a list. I have a Master model that is very good but wanted another sound, something more even with impeccible build quality. Two weekends ago I got to play a couple varnish finish Collings. They were very good and certainly would make me happy sight unseen, the Collings reputation is justified, tone and quality in spades. In the mean time I started talking to Tom Ellis about his stuff and learned that he had just finished his #100, it was bound for Smoky Montain Guitars but had a couple folks lined up for it. When #100 got to Dan's I gambled and told him if the other people weren't ready that day I'd take it. I got it last Tuesday. I tried to take time in evaluating it and went back and forth on it some. It is the cleanest built mandolin I have seen and the frequency response is very even but has good 'pop' and is deceptivly loud. I played it for several hours each day and got to use it for recording a demo. I was also able to a/b wih some really nice mandos and hear a good player play if for me. After all this the verdict is that it's a keeper and an exceptional mandolin at that, certainly one of the best I've layed eyes or hands on. So more info on #100; Red spruce top, Silver maple back and sides, flamed neck and headstock, triple bound top and back, mitered corner protectors, Bella inlay and redburst finish. Everything asbout it is unique as this is a special, milestone instrument. I may have screwed up some of the description but I think I got it. Here's some pics.

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## pjlama

another.

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## pjlama

front.

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## pjlama

headstock.

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## pjlama

ok last one.

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## Don Grieser

I got to play #100 and it's a lifetime mandolin. Very even everywhere, very responsive and exquisite craftsmanship in every detail. When that thing opens up, you aren't going to want to play anything else. Congratulations!!!

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## Chris Biorkman

That's beautiful. Is that a bird's eye back?

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## mandolooter

looks like ya made a fine choice...I'd take a Ellis over a Collings anyday...I don't like those V-necks.

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## Spruce

_"You can't compare the two. Toms work is off the charts and he's not a factory"_

Well, how do you define "factory", Gary....?

Because both the Ellis and the Collings F5 have a lot in common--namely the marriage of fine F5 design and knowledge combined with CNC technology....
You can smell it from 50 feet away...

And I think that's a _good_ smell.
The difficulty of the F5 design to build (especially around the scroll area) just _screams_ for the use of CNCs, and both Tom and Bill have really dialed in their tools...

Flip a coin...

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## sgarrity

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Tom isn't a one man shop. Doesn't he have a few people working for him? Makes absolutely no difference to me. It's obvious he's making an extremely good mandolin.

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## Jonathan James

yeah, I recall reading something about a couple of folks working with Tom on finishing, inlays, assembly, etc.

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## testore

Bruce,
When I see several hundred Ellis mandolins offered for sale at any one time then I'll consider Ellis to be a factory.

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## ellisppi

To answer a couple of questions, the back & sides of 100 are silver maple, not quite birds eye, not quite quilt. The mandolins are built by Pava Knezevic and me. I graduate the tops & backs & install tone bars, she does all the assembly and binding and she & I both do final sanding. I do the fret job, and final setup and Josh Luttrell does the stain & varnish. Nathan Arrison is the programmer & jig maker. heres a couple more pics of PJ's new mandolin

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## ellisppi

and the back

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## sgarrity

Yessir....that is mighty fine! You obviously have a very talented crew.

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## Spruce

Hi Tom....

Was that Silver Maple really light in weight??
That's a real throwback to the wood in the 30-40's Gibsons...
Beautiful stuff....

_"When I see several hundred Ellis mandolins offered for sale at any one time then I'll consider Ellis to be a factory. "_

Hmmm...
_Do_ you see several hundred Collings F5s "offered for sale at any one time"?
I'm kinda out of the loop living on an island an all..... #

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## testore

They're everywhere.They are a great product.Don't get me wrong. They are great mandolins.

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## JAK

The Ellis is a great mandolin, I've had the opportunity to play one. As the topic is, "Ellis vs. Collings MF5V," a consideration is the price. As the Ellis has gained in popularity, the price seems to have gone up. The last two I saw at Smoky Mountain Guitars were listed at $12,500, and there is currently one at Carmel Music for $11,600 (this is the selling price, not the list - I checked with Dexter). There are a number of Collings MF5V mandos listed for $9,000 (not the deluxe model). So, a comparison in sound, etc. should also compare what it costs to obtain one.

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## fredfrank

I'd have to agree with John that the only mandolin Collings has that compares price-wise would be the Deluxe. However, I have found, after having owned a few Collings mandolins, that the degree to which one is decorated has little to do with the quality of the sound they produce. In other words, they all sound great!

It would appear that Ellis only produces one model, and that is a top of the line one at that. Now I've never played one, but they no doubt sound great or he wouldn't be able to sell them at that price.

I think that my point is that you could buy a great sounding mandolin from either builder, but if you are looking to stay within a certain budget, you will no doubt have to go with the Collings.

This is not intended to be any kind of buying advice for the originator of the thread, as I see he has already bought an Ellis. But it's kinda like comparing apples to oranges - just my 2.5 cents worth.

By the way, I have to say that I have never seen any mandolins that compare to the pure stunning beauty of an Ellis.

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## pjlama

Had I gone for he Collings it would have been a Deluxe and the Ellis deluxe and Collings are now the same price about 11 1/2. #100 was a bit more but because of the binding work and and special stuff, I was ok with paying more 12500 that's how much specials are. Until this batch Tom's deluxe was 10500 a bit less than Collings. So for all intents and purposes they're about the same price. As I said earlier I would have been very happy with a Collings but got something special Ellis #100. So I was comparing mandos right around the same price, apples to apples.

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## mandoforme

That is one BEAUTIFUL mandolin! #PJ, you are one lucky guy! #

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## mandopete

Holy smokes - that's an eye popper!

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## Wesley

One thing I've noticed is that I don't ever remember seeing a used Ellis for sale in the classified ads. It would appear that the owners aren't letting go of them once they have one. I'd also be interested in hearing what folks think of the first batch of Ellis's compared to when he started building again.

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## pjlama

I can tell you why no one sells them. An istrument is a tool, the better the tool the more transparent it is and the Ellis is damn near invisible. The thought to sound gap is nearly closed, everyday I become more impressed with it. The sad part is my MAS will need to be focused on ovals, a's and mandolas the F is done. I'm also interesed in how thw 80's stuff compares to the new ones. I'd like to hear opinions too.

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## ninevah

Tom's instruments have always been looked upon favorably (Ricky Skaggs and Buck White). Like other great builders he keeps trying to improve with every instrument. He wants to get mine back so he can see what it sounds like after ~2 years of playing. I can't let it go, but just so you know Tom, it's getting better and better. Last week in a recording session the sound guy turned to me and said "That's the finest sounding mandolin I've ever heard". (He was not referring to my playing, lol).

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## msh_mando

Does anyone know how many mandos Tom Ellis has made? I remember him saying something about the number ("100" in the case of the mando discussed above) indicating total number of instruments he has made, not just mandos. Does anyone have an idea of how many total mandolins there are, and how many were made "earlier" and in the "current" period?

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## pjlama

Somebody (Tom) please correct me but he made roughly 70 in the eighties stopped and picked up the numbering where he left off so my #100 in his 100th which is was finished in early June 07'. So early ones say 70 new ones a little more than thirty in the last two years. And if anyone cares #100 is getting sweeter everyday, this is as good as it gets.

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## Tim W

Old thread but wanted to share my lament anyway. Back over 20 years ago when I first met Tom I think he was selling his mandolins for about $2500.00 or right around there. 

Since then I've played Buck's, both of Ricky's and a few others. I was a 2 striper in the Air Force back then and now I wish I'd have hocked off my 67' Camaro and bought one when I had the chance.

Hindsight right? :Disbelief: 

To me, the only mandolins ever made; for my ear anyway are some old Gibson's, one Sargent I played, a few Gilchrists I've had in my hands and all of the Ellis' I was ever lucky enough to play. His new ones sound like old Gibsons to me, and in particular his personal one. Now, wonder what I can get outta this Powerstroke F-250... :Whistling:

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## Capt. E

It would be fairly easy for someone to compare the Ellis and Collings manufacturing set-up by visiting them. Collings began building guitars sitting next to Tom Ellis in Tom's workshop. Both are still very good friends and still located in Austin. Their paths have been quite different. Collings is new to building mandolins. Tom Ellis is a small luthier who has never made anything else and produces among the best mandolins in the world. Collings' instruments are excellent, but I would say does not come up to Ellis' standard. 
Tom Ellis also owns Precision Pearl. He does all of Collings pearl inlay as well as that for Taylor, Gibson acoustic division, and many others. He saves the best shell for his own instruments.

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## citycountryguy

Hello--
I'd like to revive this thread and see if opinions have changed, expanded, and how the experience has been with Ellis and Collings in the last couple of years.  I've talked to a couple of people, own a Collings MF5, and have lusted after an Ellis for a while now...anything new to add?

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## frankenstein

Flip a coin is a good answer. But if it's an Ellis you want that's what you should get.. I don't think you'll look back.

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## frankenstein

:Mandosmiley:  :Mandosmiley:

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## red7flag

PJ that is a beautiful instrument.  A few months after bying an MF5 and found that Gruhn got a F5 in.  Just for fun, I went in to check it out.  I walked out with it and sold the MF%.  The MF5 is s wonderful instrument as is the MF5 v, but with not problem I would side with the Ellis.  Both are great builders and fine gentlemen.  There is just something special about the tone of the Ellises that do something special for me.

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## sgarrity

> Hello--
> I'd like to revive this thread and see if opinions have changed, expanded, and how the experience has been with Ellis and Collings in the last couple of years.  I've talked to a couple of people, own a Collings MF5, and have lusted after an Ellis for a while now...anything new to add?


Have you played one yet?  If not, try to do so ASAP.  We can talk all we want but how it plays, feels, and sounds to you is what makes the difference.  That being said, I think Ellis mandos are an extreme value.  They're every bit as good as mandolins costing twice as much.  But they do have their own sound and the ones I've played have been a little darker sounding.  I've liked every one I've played.

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## citycountryguy

Yes, I've played a Colllings MF5 (I own a very good one), and have played two Ellis mandolins--both incredible, and listened to several from out front, and I loved the sound (ergo, the jones for one).  I have never played a varnish Collings MF5, but I will in a few days.  The difficult challenge, of course, is that the "regular" MF5 is a very good instrument, and it's difficult to justify the financial differential--but, the Ellis sound gets under your skin--or mine, and I know that if I'm ever going to go there, this is pretty much the season to do that....

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## sgarrity

FWIW, I've had the chance to A/B several Collings varnish mandos along with the same model in lacquer and noticed very little difference.  I wouldn't pay the extra $$$ to get a Collings varnish.  My roommate at the recent Symposium had an Ellis F5 that was just spectacular in every way.

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## Chris Biorkman

Just do it!

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## citycountryguy

Yes, I know.  On the way.

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## doc holiday

I was in Missoula last week & had a chance to hear the 06 Ellis at greg Boyd's.  It's in pristine condition (doesn't look like it was played much) but has that sweet Ellis tone.  
In answer to the OP's original question....and I'm a big Collings guitar fan.....I'd choose the Ellis A or F.....every time.  The few I've heard have all been great sounding mandolins.

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## Mike Bunting

> Just do it!


 You say that all the time!!  :Laughing: 
Remember the same 3 word post when I was pondering the purchase of my Stanley?  I followed that advice and I'm glad I did.
By the way, I also have an MF5, another good one.

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## Mark Rauch

I have an MF5 (#4) that I found on the Cafe about a year ago and couldn't pass up. Seemed interesting to get one of the first batch--and it is just a super mandolin. At the time I had just bought a new Mowry F5, also a great mandolin. I wanted a nice A instead of two F's, and recently found a slightly used Ellis A (#162-09) on the Cafe and worked out a trade for the Mowry. So I have been enjoying the heck out of these two super-fine mandolins (Collings MF5 and Ellis A). I have only been playing about four years so not much experience on which to base an opinion of which is "better", but I have to say the more I play the Ellis the more I am loving it. I had first thought I might some day try to trade it for a vintage Gibson A oval, just for something different and collectible (I like old stuff) . Now, I doubt I'll turn loose of the Ellis. Also, as fine as the Collings instruments are, I agree with the comments that Ellis probably has more investment value. The nice thing about quality mandolins is that they DO seem hold their value, and even have some potential to increase over time--at least that's my rationale for having so much "invested" in this growing obsession. 
Mark

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## Chris Biorkman

> You say that all the time!! 
> Remember the same 3 word post when I was pondering the purchase of my Stanley?  I followed that advice and I'm glad I did.
> By the way, I also have an MF5, another good one.


I'm what you would call an enabler.

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## frankenstein

Michael, The Ellis A's are every bit as good as the F's so the options are there..Although  i think that Waverly's are a good option for an A, those MOP buttons feel so good..Here's a pic to help keep you " enabled " it looks like the embers in a camp fire .. happy hunt'n.

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## Capt. E

I also live in Austin and know Tom Ellis and think he makes one of the finest mandolins on the planet. The only reason he doesn't sell them for 20K or more is Tom just doesn't think that would be right. Believe me, he could command that price if he wanted.   If you have the money, go with the Ellis. I know I wish I had the money...maybe someday...I'm saving my pennies.

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## eightstringsaweek

> One thing I've noticed is that I don't ever remember seeing a used Ellis for sale in the classified ads.


Ad #41657 is a mighty fine looking Ellis A5, in the classifieds right now.  Still, it is true that they don't come up very often.

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## Capt. E

> Ad #41657 is a mighty fine looking Ellis A5, in the classifieds right now.  Still, it is true that they don't come up very often.


Tom has not been making his Deluxe A (ff holes with a 15 fret neck) for very long, I believe he made the first one only last year. They hold their own quite well with his very well known F's. This year he has made a couple of A5 oval holes that are just flat wonderful. I'm lucky to be in Austin and be able to drop by and see them being made.

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## fscotte

I dunno, I just can't bring myself to pay $4000+ for an 'A' style mandolin - regardless how good it sounds.

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## yankees1

> I dunno, I just can't bring myself to pay $4000+ for an 'A' style mandolin - regardless how good it sounds.


   I would suggest you check out Old Wave ! Fantastic A style and a lot less money!

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## sgarrity

> I dunno, I just can't bring myself to pay $4000+ for an 'A' style mandolin - regardless how good it sounds.


I've never understood this logic, or lack thereof.  I guess there are still some people that think an A-style is a "beginners" instrument.  I'd still love to add an Ellis to the herd one of these days.  And it'll be an A-style!

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## Bradley

> I've never understood this logic, or lack thereof.  I guess there are still some people that think an A-style is a "beginners" instrument.  I'd still love to add an Ellis to the herd one of these days.  And it'll be an A-style!



Thats a very true comment...I had to downsize to a Collings Mt2V from a Ellis and Gibby MM a few months back...I have been playing for 20+ years and can hold my own pretty good in my area..But when you walk up to a strange Jam people almost give you that look of "do you know how to chop a G chord yet"...

I will say that I spoke to Mr. Ellis when he was building his first A models and he said he feels that the tone is just as good if not better with his A models...and the MT2V is a fine piece as well. You will not fine a finer buider in both...But Ellis is a sweet sweet Mandolin.

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## George R. Lane

I guess if an A style is for beginners, then Tim O'Brien must be a hack.

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## Mark Rauch

A vs F? When you look at the price difference, it seems scroll envy is a pretty expensive affliction.  With Ellis the scroll adds about $5,000 and with Collings, about $4,000 (more than doubling the cost in each case). With Mowry, it doesn't double the price but does add about $2,600. Pretty pricey strap hangers. I'm not saying the price difference isn't justified. I'm not a luthier but I've done enough woodworking to know the scrolls and points add a helluva lot of labor. But as much as I love the look of the scroll and points, and see that look as an icon of bluegrass music, I've yet to see or hear much to suggest a scroll makes an F sound better or different than an A. (As you suggest Mandominium, Tim O'Brien apparently agrees.) I'm starting to think A's make a whole lot of sense.

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## frankenstein

Consider this, If you worked really hard for 11 days drawing on years of learning your craft utilising the best possible materials available ( which ain't cheap ) and made say $1000-00 a day you would think that was fair.. Pretty much what these mando's are worth.. Sounds reasonable to me.. You could also consider that by the time you have bought and sold say 3-4 instruments that is pretty much the same price of say a Collings,Ellis, or other of your choice.. so take Capt E's advice and save your pennies. Patience is a virtue.. p.s. A'S ain't got a strap hanger..

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## Fretbear

Tim also has a beautiful Nugget F-5........

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## fscotte

> I've never understood this logic, or lack thereof.  I guess there are still some people that think an A-style is a "beginners" instrument.  I'd still love to add an Ellis to the herd one of these days.  And it'll be an A-style!


Whoa, hang on horsey.  I didn't suggest an 'A' style is a beginner's mandolin.  I said I cannot bring MYSELF to pay $4000 for a non scroll mandolin, let alone $4800 for a new Ellis 'A' to be exact. 

And this is true for anyone who hasn't paid at least $4800 for an 'A' style mandolin.  Whether you have the cash or not is irrelevant.  The point is that you don't have one because you haven't brought yourself to paying that much for an A style.

There are several places right now that have Ellis A style mandolins for $4800 - as well as a used one in the classifieds.

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## sgarrity

> The point is that you don't have one because you haven't brought yourself to paying that much for an A style.


The reason I don't have an Ellis A5 is because I have 10 instruments already.  I want one but I certainly don't need it.  My primary mando is an A5 and it cost a lot more than $4800.   :Mandosmiley: 

And no, you didn't say that A-styles were beginner's instruments.  But that is a somewhat common belief among some players.  I think the F5 and F4 designs are stunning works of art.  I own a Kentucky KM1000 that satisfied my F5 itch.  But when it comes to high end mandolins, if I can get the same tone at half the price, I'm going for the A-style every time.  That way I can have more of them!    :Grin:

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## fscotte

> The reason I don't have an Ellis A5 is because I have 10 instruments already.  I want one but I certainly don't need it.  My primary mando is an A5 and it cost a lot more than $4800.


Then you're one of the exclusive folk who do what they say, you put your money where your mouth is, and laid down $4800+ for an A style.  

I'd like to know why Gibson stopped making the A5L.  I have one but I didn't pay $4800 for it.  It was $2100 in 1999.  There's a reason why me thinks, and that is there isn't a demand for the A style, REGARDLESS how good they could sound.  I think Gibson recognized that and put their effort into the F5.

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## eightstringsaweek

> I'd like to know why Gibson stopped making the A5L.  I have one but I didn't pay $4800 for it.  It was $2100 in 1999.  There's a reason why me thinks, and that is there isn't a demand for the A style, REGARDLESS how good they could sound.  I think Gibson recognized that and put their effort into the F5.


Sorry, but Gibson still makes the A-5, and it's about half the price of their high-end F-5 models, just like the Ellis A5 is about half the price of his F5 models.  Like it or not fscotte, A-5's are the way to go if you want the tone without the fancy trimmings, or if (like me) you think a snakehead A-5 is the best-looking mandolin ever made.  I'd be all over that Ellis A5 in the classifieds...if I didn't already own one!

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## Chris Biorkman

Not to be rude, but A vs. F isn't really what the OP was asking about.

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## eightstringsaweek

> Not to be rude, but A vs. F isn't really what the OP was asking about.


The OP posted his original post in 2007.  How many mandolins has PJ owned since then?  Only PJ knows...

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## sgarrity

Since when do we stay on topic around here??    :Laughing:

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## Chris Biorkman

> Since when do we stay on topic around here??


Personally, I'd rather discuss reality television.

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## sgarrity

There was an Ellis A5 spotted on American Idol this year.  So there!    :Grin:

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## pjlama

So anyway.... Since I started this thread 600 years ago I've owned Ellis #100 an Ellis A, a MF5VD, MT2 and a TOB plus a few others but from other builders. I preferred the Ellis F to the Collings, the Ellis had a bit more bark and complexity. The MF5VD left me little cold but served me well for about the same length of time as #100. Although I liked the Ellis A more I felt the MT2 was a better value, a good bit less dough for a nearly equal instrument. Maybe 5% off the Ellis tone but 30% less money. I know we go on about A vs. F and am not sure that this is the case here but that's what I found after living with all these mandos. You do need to take value into account, at least I do these days so fire away but that's my humble opinion.

PS, I much prefer F's to A's  :Mandosmiley:

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## frankenstein

Congratulations PJ, after 600 years you've answered your own question.

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## fscotte

> Sorry, but Gibson still makes the A-5, and it's about half the price of their high-end F-5 models, just like the Ellis A5 is about half the price of his F5 models.  Like it or not fscotte, A-5's are the way to go if you want the tone without the fancy trimmings, or if (like me) you think a snakehead A-5 is the best-looking mandolin ever made.  I'd be all over that Ellis A5 in the classifieds...if I didn't already own one!


OK that's not an A5L.  It's missing a few appointments from the earlier A5L.  And as you pointed out, it's half the price of the F.

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## pjlama

> Congratulations PJ, after 600 years you've answered your own question.


Yeah, I'm a slow learner :D

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## eightstringsaweek

> Although I liked the Ellis A more I felt the MT2 was a better value, a good bit less dough for a nearly equal instrument. Maybe 5% off the Ellis tone but 30% less money.


Interesting - at the time I bought mine I was comparing a Collings/Nugget TOB, a Collings MT2V, and the Ellis A5, and I went with the Ellis based on tone and value (a bit more than the MT2V, much less than the TOB).  To each their own, and happy picking to all!

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## pjlama

I was comparing an MT2 not an MT2V so that's where I was coming from. As for the TOB I was not blown away for the money but enjoyed it for a few months, catch and release...

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## blindboy

I have an Ellis A5 and a Stanley F5.  Both great, love my Ellis though.  No doubt you would as well.

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## Life Is Good

I think Eliis is one example where I prefer the A5 to the F5. The Passernigs sound just as good in my opinion and more to my preference. He worked for Collings.

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## Paul Statman

> "You can't compare the two. Toms work is off the charts and he's not a factory"


Didn't those Lloyd Loar-signed mandolins come out of a factory?  :Whistling:

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## red7flag

PJ, great to see you back on.  We often have been in the same journeys over the years.  I am a fan of both.  Will give you a little history.  I bought an MF from Gruhns that people who had played it at Gruhns raved about.  I went into Nashville and went home with that sucker.  Was a very strong instrument.  The MF was an early model that had matted finish and did not have white binding on the top.  "It's shiney!"  I get enamored by the great looks of an MF5 and assumed it would have a more sophisticated sound.  Sold my MF to a friend (he still owns it) and bought the MF5.  It was more sophiticated than the MF, but lacked that raw power and complexity.  I traded up and went down.  I was never satisfied.  I sold it and bought my first Ellis.  I loved that instrument, but for some reason thought that what I really wanted was a Gibson MM.  I was persuaded to look at a used RSDMM and bought it.  It had that Loar sound I thought I was looking for.  I put the Ellis up for sale.  After a couple of months I realized that as good as the RSDMM was the Ellis was really my instrument.  I called Walter and found that he just had sold my Ellis.  I was heart broken.  I called Tom Ellis and I ordered my current Ellis F5 with broad leaf back and sides.  The RSDMM is sold.  I told that whole story to answer your question.  For me the the Colling MF5-V is a great instrument, but for me, the Ellis and I have a special relationship that no other instrument has taken away.  I did make that choice and went with Tom.  I do have an MT-O that I really love, though.  The Ellis is my main axe.

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## yankees1

<I have an Ellis A5 and a F5 ! Love both but the F% has a little more pop on the upper register as ordered from Tom.

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## ccravens

A 9 year old thread?

This has got to be some kind of a record!

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## doc holiday

"PJ, great to see you back on. "
Sadly,  that last post was 6 years ago...

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## yankees1

[QUOTE=Chris Biorkman;817853]Personally, I'd rather discuss reality television.[/QUOTE  Donald Trump was seen playing an Ellis F5-----------------at least that was what I was told !

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## red7flag

I was so happy to see PJ on, or so I thought, I did not bother to look at the date.  My bad.  I think a really good topic.  Fairly close in price and workmanship.  Main difference is the tone.  You know where I sit there, but I really like the Collings too.  Last Friday I drove past Austin and thought about both builder and how much they have effected me.  I also had a Collings D1, that I gave to my cousin.  Great instrument.

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