# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  what does a oval hole mandolin do different than an F hole style?

## darylcrisp

i was browsing this site(awesome site with great soundclips) and found this Breedlove(i dig the BL look and sound from these clips):
http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=8719

to me, and keep in mind i'm brand new to all this, the oval hole soundclip sounds more full and has sustain that the F style doesn't:
http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=9071

So do you use an oval hole mando for the same type of music as an F style?

Either way, i like them both, but prefer-based on these soundclips-the oval hole for myself.

thanks
daryl

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## mandroid

Well the notes are all the same..  the F holes seem to Project outward, 
Oval can be heard a little better by the player .
20s  with bridge further in the middle versus shifted to allow a longer neck
 do have differential characteristics, 

But the many nuances of sound are somewhat up to the builder, and the individual instrument,
so I'll leave what each sound like to the Adjective and Adverb  talkers.

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## Rob Gerety

If you prefer the tone of the oval hole definitely get it!  I love oval hole mandolins.

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## Douglas McMullin

I finally have both, and I hope I never have to go back to just one or the other.

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## wreded

i have both and the oval hole seems to be a little quieter to me.  *i* can hear it better than any of my F-hole mandos, but i'm not convinced that it carries as far.  My oval seems to have a bit more sweetness to the notes rather than the "bark" that's associated with F-hole mandos.

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## JEStanek

Ted wrote a great article on this.  I see it similarly as an ff hole is like a prow of a boat cutting through the water and an oval hole's sound is like water flowing around a rock in the stream.

They are very different from each other.  I wouldn't recommend an ff hole model for bluegrass.  I'm not into playing bluegrass and I play alone so I really prefer the oval hole sound.

Jamie

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## David Rambo

Thanks for that answer, Jamie.  That's a great example, and after thinking a little, it's very appropriate.  Personally, I like the toneality of the oval hole better.  I have both, and they each have their place in the music I play, but if I had to pick only one, it would be an oval hole model.

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## Ed Goist

I agree with Mandroid that most of the sound nuances of a mandolin are determined by the builder (and his/her choice of tone woods, sound chamber shape and size, soundboard carving and thickness, bracing style and material, etc). 

That said, here are some words I would use to describe the basic sound profiles (always tricky business!) of my two mandolins (one is an oval hole A-style, while the other is an ff-hole A-style), both made by the same builder:

ff hole = bark, ring, projected, bright, clean, focused, intense, fundamental tones
oval hole = warm, hum, round, purr, sustained, growl, overtones  

I, too, like the sound of both. However, I find an ff-hole mandolin with tone bars to be the most versatile design in terms of tonal variety, while the oval hole (transverse or X braced) is great for its characteristic, specific sound.

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## mandolirius

> But the many nuances of sound are somewhat up to the builder, and the individual instrument,
> so I'll leave what each sound like to the Adjective and Adverb  talkers.


The nuances may be up to the builder but they can't make an oval hole sound like and f-hole mandolin. They are fundamentally different in the method of sound projection. Oval hole vs. f-hole is the biggest question a person has to answer when it comes to deciding what type of mandolin they want.

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## Murphy Slaw

Larger spiders can't get in F holes.

Just sayin'......

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## Rob Gerety

The comparison often seems to be between Oval and F holes instruments - but my experience is that there are two major categories of ovals that are very different from one another - perhaps even more different from one another than the common modern oval and f hole mandolins.  Short neck oval v. Long neck oval is a big to ask yourself if you end up going down the oval path. There is a major difference between the two.  All ovals are not cut from the same cloth.

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## John Ritchhart

To me oval holes have a much longer sustain and wider band (maybe overtone) than an f hole. For that reason they are better on slower tunes like waltzes and aires. Once you get up into higher speeds that sustain becomes a liability as the notes begin to muddy into each other. The punchy, projected notes of the f hole are better for faster playing and therefor better for bluegrass rips like Rawhide, et al.

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rwhitney

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## Brent Hutto

Does anyone beside me hear more of that phasey two-strings-in-unison sound when listening to an ff-hole mandolin than an oval? That's one of the most important elements that makes the mandolin tone unique (although that's not a very good way of describing it, admittedly) and oval-hole instruments seem to obscure it by some of that sustain and overtones that _jbrwky_ mentions.

The thing that I really don't care for in most oval hole mandolins is that boxy sound that my ear tends to identify as "compressed". It's not really there to the same extent in every oval-hole instrument but the ones that people say have the best "oval sound" tend to be the ones that sound most compressed to me.

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## Ed Goist

> Does anyone beside me hear more of that phasey two-strings-in-unison sound when listening to an ff-hole mandolin than an oval? ...snip...


I agree with this. I think this is what I'm describing as _'ring'_ or _'chime'_, and I'd call it an essential tonal characteristic of an ff-hole mandolin.




> ...The thing that I really don't care for in most oval hole mandolins is that boxy sound that my ear tends to identify as "compressed"...snip...


I agree with this evaluation as well, though I often like this type of sound in a mandolin, and think it's quite appropriate for Old-Time, Blues, and Rock...I think this is what I'm describing as _'hum'_, _'purr'_, or _'growl'_ (those sounds are _boxy_ and _compressed_), and I'd call this an essential tonal characteristic of an oval hole mandolin.

Of course, describing sounds with words is very subjective, YMMV.

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## ColdBeerGoCubs

HI Daryl, 

I have a Breedlove oval, almost went with the FF version, but the oval was almost just as loud but I just liked the sweeter, more rounded sound. Something about it just called me. I even brought it to a bluegrass a large bluegrass fest over the summer, and while I did get some odd looks and questions, everyone who played it liked and it did start some interesting conversations and it did disappear into a few jam circles as others took it and passed it around. I was at another jam this past weekend with 2 guitars, a bass, a keyboard, percussion and a harmonica. All experienced musicians, except me. I figured if I just followed along that no one would be able to hear what I was doing, I was wrong. After the jam a couple of the guys said they were glad to hear me join in and that was one sweet sounding little instrument.

Go for what you like, all the generalizations and opinions you'll find out there will drive you insane if you let them, find something you like and run with it. Once you start playing music nothing else really matters.

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dmeyreles

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## Steve Ostrander

It's harder to drop your pick into an f hole  :Smile:

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## JEStanek

> It's harder to drop your pick into an f hole


 ... but easier to get one out of an oval hole.

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B381

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## lenf12

I agree with what the other respondants say about the differences between ovals and f holes. To me, it's not really an either/or consideration. You should resign yourself to the fact that you will want one of each and perhaps a mandola too. (see my avatar: 1916 F-4 and 1956 F-12).

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## Markus

> ... but easier to get one out of an oval hole.


It's even easier to get one out of a guitar, if that's your standard.

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## tnt2002

> Larger spiders can't get in F holes.
> 
> Just sayin'......


Best response yet!  But I still want an oval hole mando too.

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## albeham

My Wash Burn seems to be louder then my F hole. 

  Spiders...I get snakes in mine..

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