# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Tru-oil gun stock finish

## DENNY7P

Does anybody have any good information on using this on finishing a guitar :Whistling:

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## talbotpat

Hey, if it makes that mando group better at 200 yards I say go for it!  :Mandosmiley: 

Pat

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## Dan Gunderson

I rubbed it on a guitar neck and headstock as a finish....8 or 9 thin coats sanded w/ 000 steel wool in between. Worked great. I french polished the body of that guitar, but I've heard of folks using the tru-oil on the whole thing.

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## PJ Doland

I used it for a solidbody electric I built a few years ago. The stuff was absolutely amazing. Silky finish, easy to apply, and very forgiving.

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## Mattg

I use it on guitar necks and it works fairly well. It will wear off of maple in a few years. It penetrates mahogony pretty well. Go the the mimf forum and search on this there. I know there were some discussions about it several years ago. I think you can search on it.

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## sunburst

A well applied Truoil finish can be an excellent instrument finish. I've seen mandolins finished in 100% Truoil that looked great. I've used it for a top coat over oil varnish with good results. It can be done with anything from a "rubbed" sheen to a high gloss, it seems very durable, it requires no spray equipment, is not ridiculously toxic, and it's not too expensive. It is, however, rather time consuming and it's not automatic; you have to learn how to build a quality film with a good appearance.

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CarlT, 

Rob Zamites

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## Magnus Geijer

I'm a big fan of Tru-oil, and finished my #1, #2 and #4 mandolins with nothing but it, and the same thing for a guitar. It's ridiculously easy to work with. 

Of the below, the guitar, the brown, off-white and red mandolins are all Tru-oil, (although top coat only on the off-white). I'm happy with them.

/Magnus

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## Earl Gamage

I make walking sticks and other wood work, no lutherie.  Tru oil is easy, pretty fast, you can choose how many coats you want and it's durable.  In short, it's an excellent finish anyone can apply and get great results.

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## John Ely

I used it on a mountain dulcimer I made. I have also used it on gun stocks. It is pretty easy to apply, and gives a good appearance. It isn't quick, especially if you want many coats, but I like it.

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## Red Henry

I learned about Tru-Oil finish in the 1970s from Winslow King, a gunsmith near Blairsville, Ga. who had begun regraduating fiddles (very successfully, too). Since then I've gotten excellent results myself refinishing several fiddles and mandolins (obtaining a very "dry" sound there), and when I was building banjos I even used it for the necks and resonators. It's easy to apply and looks good AND sounds good too.

Red

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## Patrick Hanna

Two points no one has mentioned yet, and they are both important:

1.  Tru Oil is almost infinitely repairable.  You do a little spot sanding (extremely fine abrasive), you rub on another coat, you let it harden up, and you polish it.  Presto!

2.  If you let Tru Oil cure and harden for a while, it gets progressively harder.  I waited about a month on a guitar tailpiece that I finished with Tru Oil.  Then I worked through all the grits in my
Micro mesh pad set.  I rubbed with dry pads.  I got a watery, glass-clear result.  Fabulous.  But you've GOT to let it harden up before you do that.

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## SGraham

I put down a coat of shellac first when using it on backs, sides, and soundboards.

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## Patrick Hanna

Steve makes a good point there.  The shellac is an excellent sealer, and Tru Oil applied over it will begin building immediately.  Another nice thing about it is that you can stop polishing at any point where you achieve your desired luster.  Many people prefer a soft, eggshell sort of a sheen.
In my case, I was going for a very shiny finish that would match the lacquer on my guitar.  It's very versatile stuff.

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## sebastiaan56

Im waiting for someone to post something bad about TruOil, its not gonna be me, I think its terrific stuff. OK, the price here in Aus.

One tip I got was to keep adding marbles or clean rocks to your bottle as you work through it. ie keep the liquid level close or at the top of the bottle. It will skin over if you dont do this and you will need to get rid of the skin before you apply it. I can also endorse the shellac approach but I put down a single layer of Boiled Linseed Oil first to help pop the grain. Then after the shellac I use some 400 grit to get rid of the nap. Then 5 or so coats of TruOil. Works a treat!

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## Red Henry

> If you let Tru Oil cure and harden for a while, it gets progressively harder.


Very true, though there is the other side to that. I refinished a quality mandolin in Tru-Oil in about 1990, and that varnish didn't really dry out, and the mandolin sound its best, until about ten years later! -- but now it's a monster mandolin with plenty of sound and an extremely dry, satisfying bluegrass tone. My son Chris plays it, in case you've heard him with any of the bands he's worked with.

Red

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## alanz

I recently used Tru-Oil to finish an octave mandolin built in Don Kawalek's 4 day workshop.

Luthier's Mercantile has a good page about using Tru-Oil for finishing instruments

Take a look at  http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/TruOil.htm

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## 300win

I've used it on several gunstocks. It always gave excellant results, and yes I agree it gets really hard, and is easy to touch up, and besides that it smells good.

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## CES

So why don't more luthiers use it?  I'm assuming it's the time factor, though I haven't priced it, and possibly the tradition factor, too (or at least their experience/comfort with other finishes)...

Not being snarky at all...as a guy who's been considering a kit build for a while but who doesn't have the spray set-up or much finishing experience, the quality and reparability of this stuff is intriguing...

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## F-2 Dave

Is tru oil clear? or does it get progressively darker with each application? I was thinking about refinishing a viola in tru oil.

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## Red Henry

> Is tru oil clear? or does it get progressively darker with each application? I was thinking about refinishing a viola in tru oil.


Tru-Oil is clear, or nearly so. Underlying color can generally be your choice of stain-- the Birchwood-Casey walnut gunstock stain has been used, but I prefer other conventional water-based stains, myself.

I have obtained good results refinishing fiddles with Tru-Oil. Usually it yields a semi-gloss appearance and a full, rich tone-- subject, of course, to what the instrument itself is capable of.

I suppose that Tru-Oil is not in common use because of the time involved in applying the finish and letting the coats dry, which of course is far in excess of the time required for lacquer. But if you do not have a finish-spray setup, you might experiment on some disposable wood with Tru-Oil and see if it works for you.

Red

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## CES

Red,

I'm thinking I might...limited time is the main reason I haven't jumped into anything yet, but a finish that I have to actually let sit for a while may not be such a bad thing...

Thanks--

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## Patrick Hanna

I think there are a few reasons it isn't used more widely on instruments.  First, it isn't traditional.  Second, many luthiers feel that it isn't as hard a finish as nitrocellulose lacquer, and this is probably true.  Third, many people perceive that it won't polish as well as nitro, but I believe polishing Tru Oil is largely a matter of patience and technique.  Fourth, I believe there's a misperception about the curing time.  It ought be hard enough to polish in two to four weeks--about the same as nitro lacquer.  But curing times will vary due to lots of factors, as with any finish.  Thickness of the applications, humidity, contaminants, and a host of other factors will affect it.  I believe a lot of people simply assume it cures more slowly than lacquer.  Just think of it as a varnish, because that's essentially what it is.  I think it's safe to say that most (not all) guitars, mandos, etc. are lacquered these days, and I think that's what most buyers expect to see on a factory instrument.  Hand built instruments are a different matter.  Quite a few a French polished.  Some are varnished.  But even there, I think most builders opt for lacquers.

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## Avi Ziv

I am only a beginner and just completed my first IV kit - finished with Tru-Oil. You can see a separate thread here in the Builders section. The experts can confirm/refute but it seems to me that the  Tru-Oil is so very thin, that we may have to spend more time in surface preparation and sanding. I don't think we can expect Tru-Oil to fill "build up" and be leveled as can be done with, say, lacquer.  Having said that, I enjoyed the process and like the results.

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## sunburst

> So why don't more luthiers use it?  I'm assuming it's the time factor, though I haven't priced it, and possibly the tradition factor, too (or at least their experience/comfort with other finishes)...


There was a post by Bill Bussman that I wish I could remember better, it was about Deft, I believe. He said something like:
"I like to suffer for my art, and it doesn't require the requisite amount of suffering". 
In other words, it's just too easy for highly trained and skilled luthier types the likes of us.  :Whistling:

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## Earl Gamage

improvziv, as a couple of other posts noted you can seal with shellac before using the tru oil if you want the grain filled more.  It is usual to cut the shellac with some alcohol first if you do it that way or make a light mix if you use flakes.

You can also get that kind of golden color that way.

Keep in mind, I've never sealed an instrument, just a lot of other wood work.  

Another really easy finish that looks great is Watco danish oil.  Again, just wipe it on and keep putting on coats until you like the finish.  Seems like that would be another good finish for kits, which is why I am interested in this thread.

I was just thinking, the one Big Muddy mandolin I've played seemed to be oil finished, but I'm just guessing.

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## Avi Ziv

> improvziv, as a couple of other posts noted you can seal with shellac before using the tru oil if you want the grain filled more.  It is usual to cut the shellac with some alcohol first if you do it that way or make a light mix if you use flakes.


Actually I did seal with shellac (and it helped reduce blotchiness) but the Tru-Oil does not build up much at all which is good on one hand because we want a thin finish but it also means that in order to get a smooth instrument, the wood has to be exceptionally smooth so start with; or so it seems to me

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## alanz

Following the LMII guidelines, I filled the walnut grain with brown filler, then sealed with Tru-Oil Sealer, then multiple coats of Tru-Oil finish.

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## Avi Ziv

Alan - that's a good reference for me since I hope to build an instrument with walnut back/sides in the future. I'll hunt you down when the time comes. Thanks

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## Red Henry

> ...the Tru-Oil does not build up much at all ... in order to get a smooth instrument, the wood has to be exceptionally smooth so start with; or so it seems to me


Right, the surface has to be quite well-prepared. But that doesn't take as long as earning the cash to buy a spray booth...

Red

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## oldwave maker

I've finished most of my personal instruments with tru-oil over shellac, Tom Ellis told me at ASIA a while back his varnish virtuoso did tru-oil fp over behlens rockhard tabletop varnish, the oil might give more 3D pop than shellac on the bare stained wood. Makes a great after shave lotion when applied thin.....

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## Avi Ziv

> his varnish virtuoso did tru-oil fp over behlens rockhard tabletop varnish,


Bill - can you please explain a little what is meant by Tru-Oil french polish?

Thanks

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## SternART

Yeah Bill....explain how thin it needs to be if used for after shave while you're at it too.  :Disbelief:

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## Bill Snyder

French polish is the technique used to apply a finish, not the material.

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## Steevarino

So, this is an interesting thread to me because I am building a resophonic guitar for a custom order, and the customer has requested tung oil.  On my first reso. build I used Waterlox, which is a mixture of tung oil and a couple of other ingredients.  It came out fine, but would have been better had I grain filled the wood, which happened to be mahogany.

I asked a few of my more seasoned builder/friends, and they seemed to prefer the idea of Tru-oil over tung oil.  I ran this by the customer, and he is pretty much set on the idea of tung oil.

Any ideas here?   Anyone have experience (and an opinion) with both of these finishes?  Also, the customer has requested a bit of a sunburst.  It's a one color stain, so I was going to spray it.  I would usually do this with lacquer.  The base wood (mahogany) is now grain filled.  Could I spray the burst in a shellac mix, and then apply tung or Tru-oil over that?

I hate new stuff.  I barely know what I already know....

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## Kyle Baker

The other day I noticed tru-oil gun stock finish in an aerosol spray can in the hunting section at Wal-mart... has anyone used spray on tru-oil on an instrument? I assumed it was typically rubbed on with rags.

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## Rick Turner

Waterlox is a wonderful tung oil product.  It's got resins in it, so technically it's a long oil varnish.  You can build it up on the surface, and it may be more moisture resistant that linseed oil formulas.  I use it as a pre-sealer under a wide variety of finishes, and I like how it promotes top coat finish adhesion to wood.  In the paint biz, when you use it for that it's called a "tie coat".  

Another nice simple finish is to seal the wood with one or two coats of WEST epoxy, sand really smooth with 220 or 320 and then do three or four coats of Waterlox on top of that.  You don't get a pore filled look, but it's the best open pored "oil finish" I've yet achieved on anything, and it's really tough.

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## 45ACP-GDLF5

I've always said that mandolins, guitars and gun related stuff go together like a racing team of buggy-mules!!!   :Wink:

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## Red Henry

I stand corrected.

Red

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## Rick Turner

TruOil is a modified linseed oil formula...no tung oil in it.

Tung oil seems to have greater moisture resistance properties than other drying oils like linseed, walnut, or spike oil (lavender), and the Chinese were reported to have used it on their massive sailing junks hundreds of years ago.

Japan drier is the popular name for a cobalt solution that promotes the processes of oxidation and polymerization.  My understanding is that it helps draw oxygen into the finish medium.  It's commonly used with oil based paints and varnishes.   It's also used to help cure polyester along with either MEKP or a UV initiator.

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## Bill Snyder

Steve Smith, does your customer want a pure tung oil finish or one of the finishes labeled tung oil that  only contain tung oil as one of many ingredients? 
I ask because finishes like Formby's Tung Oil Finish contain very little tung oil although the name suggests it IS tung oil. I actually have used the Formby's finish several times on none instrument projects and like the results, but it is misleading to call it Tung Oil Finish.

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## Steevarino

Bill and all --

I'm not sure how deep my customer's knowledge of tung oil products go, but I have noticed that, in the end, he does a pretty good job of deferring to what I might think is the best way to go.

At this point, I think I might stick with the Waterlox, for a couple of reasons.  First, I have at least some familiarity with it, and second, it is my understanding that Waterlox is primarily a tung oil product, with maybe some mineral spirits and something else tossed in the mix.  (Not sure about this, as the can of the stuff is at my shop right now,and I am at home).

Not really part of this thread, but I'm too lazy to start a new one, so....  My next concern is how to apply the stain for the sunburst.  The wood (mahogany) is currently grain filled.  I plan on putting a one-color burst around the edges, and a bit in the waist and both ends of the sides.  Is it anything close to common practice to burst with the shellac coat?  I have had good luck with the Zinzer SealCoat, which seems to be very close to, if not a bonafide shellac product.  I was thinking I could introduce the color in the first coat, and then put another two coats of SealCoat on top of it, so I could sand a bit withougt cutting into the color.

I guess my current plan is to get the burst with the SealCoat, and then hand-apply the Waterlox over it.  Good idea?  Bad Idea?  I'm just glad that while making a reso. guitar, you get this handy 10" disk on which you can experiment these options!

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## Mario Proulx

I shoot my bursts with the colors mixed in a thin shellac binder, then topcoat as usual. Only caveat is to seal the burst by shooting the first few topcoats "dry" so as to not make the colors run into each other, which can happen if you shoot wet coats over the shellac.

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## Rick Turner

I've done quite a few bursts using MEK dyes airbrushed directly on bare wood with several coats of Waterlox sealing in the color.   You cannot get the kind of opaque dark that you get with sprayed 'bursts, but the results are much like hand padding water stains...a real old-time look.   You can then shoot, brush, or pad whatever over the Waterlox if you want.  I often shoot McFadden's rosewood sealer on, and then go to polyester.  It's a nice blend of an old fashioned 'burst look with a modern catalyzed finish.   But I could as easily go with anything else over the Waterlox...shellac, varnish, lacquer, or TruOil.  I've not tried building up enough coats of the Original Waterlox to do a rubbed out, pore filled finish, but I'd guess it would be possible.  I did do the beech hardwood floors in my old house with Waterlox satin floor finish, and it came out pretty nice.

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## Magnus Geijer

I have applied my Tru-Oil onto unsealed, stained wood, and can't see that it has blurred the bursts at all. I'm assuming this will depend on what stains you use. I've used the alcohol solubles from LMII, and they don't appear to be impacted by the Tru-Oil in any way. 

/Magnus

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