# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Upgrade time?

## OneChordTrick

I know the answer will be upgrade but Id appreciate some objective advice. 

Ive got an Ozark mandolin like this https://www.gak.co.uk/en/ozark-2001-...iABEgLD7fD_BwE and Ive done a setup on it, added new strings but Im disappointed with the tone.

Compared with my Octave played at the same pitch it sounds tinny and quite shrill.

Is it a case of a bad workman blaming his tool or would I be likely to notice an improvement with an upgrade? 

Havent played any but I like the look of the Eastman 304, also considering the Ashbury E style or if I stretch my budget perhaps a Paul Hathway.

Or should I persevere and work on my technique?

----------


## Mandoplumb

I’m not familiar with  ozark or Paul Hathaway, what iv3seen of asbury may not be an upgrade. I’m not a fan of taking baby steps when upgrading, it winds up costing so much generally. There may be inexpensive ways of improving your Ozark until. You can afford a real upgrade. Is there a mandolin player in your area that could look listen and give advice? It’s hard to tell with out the mandolin in hand and listening to tell why it sounds thin.  Maybe different strings. If there is a jam or open mic that you could take the mandolin to hav3 a player look at it believe me most would be happy to give you a minute and advice. I have done so many times. Oh yea, if you must up grade now the Eastment is a decent instrument if you like the tone, my preference is The Loar or Kentucky. The thing is you don’t know enough to know what you want yet not being smart just stating facts, thats why I say stick with what you have now if it plays reasonably well and will tune. In time you will know what sound you want for what music you will play and you can make a giant step to a really good mandolin and not thrown a lot of money away up grading

----------

OneChordTrick, 

Sherry Cadenhead

----------


## mandroid

you did not spend much, so that is not surprising a 120 quid mandolin is not that resonant..

Know little about the British Mandolin market, other than the guy in Brighton 
who posts here, sells the very best mandolins at the expected high costs,
 gets them , I suppose,  US ones from over in the states.. think  thousands not hundreds


I got a Czech made Lebeda,  They're good,   long tradition in Violin Making
  has Eastern Europe ...   with the Skills 

and their Forests the materials , (OK not Ebony that has to come from Africa)

look at the Builders link, above, for more names..




 :Wink: 





...

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## Bill Cameron

I always suggest  making your way up the Eastman line to a number that starts with 5. Like f'rinstance 504. At that point you have something that you won't immediately want to start putting better hardware on... no doubt the 304 is a decent step up from your current ride but its true, part of a successful instrument upgrade tends to involve stepping a little out of your pricing comfort zone-- and the 500s are still pretty reasonable, even of they are a lot more than a hundred pounds.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

> I always suggest  making your way up the Eastman line to a number that starts with 5. Like f'rinstance 504. At that point you have something that you won't immediately want to start putting better hardware on... no doubt the 304 is a decent step up from your current ride but its true, part of a successful instrument upgrade tends to involve stepping a little out of your pricing comfort zone-- and the 500s are still pretty reasonable, even of they are a lot more than a hundred pounds.


I may have misunderstood but I thought I read somewhere that the difference between the 3 and 5 series was the finish and fittings and that the woods were the same. Is that the case?

----------


## almeriastrings

'Ashbury' and 'Ozark' frequently originate in the self-same factory.... they are just 'names' that the respective importers (Hobgoblin and  Stentor, in this case) have stuck on them...'Pilgrim' is another from the same sources, as are the Barnes & Mullins models, mostly either Romania (Hora) as per yours, or one of a couple of major producers in Asia. 

Some of them are not bad... none are 'great'... and a common feature tends to be that they look very 'pretty' but lack volume, power and refinement (compared to a higher end instrument).

Both Eastman and Kentucky do much better in the all-important sound stakes.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## almeriastrings

In the UK, I'd try to take a look at a Jimmy Moon instrument.. he's been building for years and they are very good value at not-extortionate prices:

https://www.promenademusic.co.uk/jim...ndard-mandolin

In a different league from the cheap imports.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

Thanks, the Moon looks great but probably a bit above what I’m prepared to spend. I’m a self taught “bedroom” player with little aspiration to perform except for myself.

----------


## almeriastrings

If you are in no rush, keep an eye on the classifieds here and on Ebay UK. Stuff does come up and you'd be looking at saving 40-50% in many cases...

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## Kalasinar

I agree with previous replies that an Ashbury wouldn’t be a significant enough upgrade from the Ozark you currently own. I’ve noticed and held some Paul Hathway mandolins in Canterbury Hobgoblin but didn’t have time to sit down and try them out. They seem well built but personally I wasn’t that drawn to the aesthetics. On the whole though, as others have stated, an Eastman or Kentucky would be a good upgrade from what you have. Bill has a good point about the Eastman 300s and 500s - my upgrade from my beginner Tanglewood mandolin was an Eastman MD504 and I love it. I briefly considered the MD304 for a time but the better hardware on the MD504 convinced me to spend a little more. It was worth it for me, but to others it might not matter so much.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## Johnny60

As others have previously said, Ozark, Ashbury, Blue Moon etc are all less than impressive.  A decent Kentucky or Eastman will give you a significant improvement in tone and build quality.  Whatever you buy, make sure that it's fully set up. Can't speak for all their stores, but some of the Hobgoblin stores do very little in the way of proper set-up.  I used to own an Eastman 505 and it served me well for a number of years.  

Trevor at TAMCO in Brighton stocks Eastman and, although I've personally never bought from him, he has a very good reputation for great customer service and set-up.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## Randi Gormley

If you feel that your current mandolin sounds tinny and thin, then, yes, it's time for an upgrade. A 300 level Eastman is a perfectly fine upgrade from what you have. If you have the chance to try it out, so much the better. It has a thin modern neck, which I don't think has been mentioned. not sure of the size/width of the neck of your current instrument, but just thought I'd throw that out there. My Eastman is certainly a well-crafted and beautiful looking and sounding instrument for all it has non-upgraded hardware. fwiw

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

> If you feel that your current mandolin sounds tinny and thin, then, yes, it's time for an upgrade. A 300 level Eastman is a perfectly fine upgrade from what you have. If you have the chance to try it out, so much the better. It has a thin modern neck, which I don't think has been mentioned. not sure of the size/width of the neck of your current instrument, but just thought I'd throw that out there. My Eastman is certainly a well-crafted and beautiful looking and sounding instrument for all it has non-upgraded hardware. fwiw


Thanks definitely plan to play a few before I buy, it might come down to my ability to get a decent sound out of any mandolin!

Regarding nut width mine is 30mm or about 2mm approx 1/12" wider, am I likely to notice much difference?

----------


## Randi Gormley

You'll probably find your fingers aren't exactly where you're used to them being for a bit -- it shouldn't be that much of a reset, though.   My main mandolin has a 1-inch nut  (considered too narrow for some people) and it takes me no time at all to adjust to the Eastman (which I use with a bridge pickup for when I'm plugged in) or vice versa. You should be good. The neck difference also may mean the profile of the neck within your hand will change. My Strad-o-Lin, f'rinstance, feels like a baseball bat where my Eastman is a sleeker, more oval-feeling neck. It's all good, just things you may not realize until you've played it for a bit and wonder why your hand feels different, or more tired, or less tired, and why chords are either suddenly easier or suddenly harder.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## Bill Cameron

> I may have misunderstood but I thought I read somewhere that the difference between the 3 and 5 series was the finish and fittings and that the woods were the same. Is that the case?


I would say from subjective observation, no, (particularly like the 500 series "classic" reddish top, not so hep on the sunburst) but what if it was? You want the better hardware, it makes a big difference both in sound and utility. You want the better finish, it looks great, sounds great, makes a more valuable instrument. 

A friend/student bought a 404 when it first came out btw, immediately found a desire for better tuners. (She bought it before the price increased about $200 Cdn, it was a good buy at that price.) I'm not all that crazy on the materials, black top and mahogany body is the 404 standard. That is why I recommend going straight to the 500s (although they have the same tuners as 404, both better than the 304's.)  Also as a matter of supply and demand, I dont know if this is so true in terms of UK availability, but there is a good supply of used 500-series because they were originally the lowest number in the Eastman line, the 300s were introduced a few years later--as a cheaper alternative, obviously. So we see used 500s going at very reasonable prices, while people are asking imho unreasonably high numbers for used 300s (maybe because they have put a lot of $ into upgrades).

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## derbex

FWIW I have a Hathway mandolin, it's old now but sounds great, you see them come up for £300 - £350 on ebay every now and then. I sometimes think of upgrading it but it would  be for the cosmetics not the tone. I would try a few mandolins to see if you can find one you like the sound of, if you are in London at all Hobgoblin usually have some Hathways, plus various others.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

> FWIW I have a Hathway mandolin, it's old now but sounds great, you see them come up for £300 - £350 on ebay every now and then. I sometimes think of upgrading it but it would  be for the cosmetics not the tone. I would try a few mandolins to see if you can find one you like the sound of, if you are in London at all Hobgoblin usually have some Hathways, plus various others.


That’s the plan  :Smile:  plus the guys just down the road (whose name I forget but I’ve been on the road since 3am) who appear to Stott Eastman.

----------


## OneChordTrick

A quick update, managed to play a few instruments this afternoon. Of those that I liked the best:

Eastman 504, felt right immediately but realistic my budget will only stretch to a 304. Is the sound of the 504 that much better?

A second hand Paul Hathway, was strung in Octave pairs which I don’t like but had a great tone once I ignored the “extra” string. But at £450 perhaps overpriced?

It’s a personal decision I know but what would you do?

----------


## pheffernan

> A second hand Paul Hathway, was strung in Octave pairs which I dont like but had a great tone once I ignored the extra string. But at £450 perhaps overpriced? Its a personal decision I know but what would you do?


Which model was it? Perhaps you could use Paul's price list to determine fair depreciation and make an offer: http://www.paulhathway.com/mandolins/

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

Thanks, the closest model retails at £595, this one is in Good but not perfect condition, just a couple of dings but not enough to dissuade me.

----------


## pheffernan

> Thanks, the closest model retails at £595, this one is in Good but not perfect condition, just a couple of dings but not enough to dissuade me.


I generally look for a depreciated price that correlates to 70% of replacement cost, so maybe an offer of £415 would be acceptable on both sides.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## colorado_al

> A quick update, managed to play a few instruments this afternoon. Of those that I liked the best:
> 
> Eastman 504, felt right immediately but realistic my budget will only stretch to a 304. Is the sound of the 504 that much better?
> 
> A second hand Paul Hathway, was strung in Octave pairs which I don’t like but had a great tone once I ignored the “extra” string. But at £450 perhaps overpriced?
> 
> It’s a personal decision I know but what would you do?


I think the sound of the Eastman 300 series is quite good, especially for the price. The one thing I don't love about the Eastman 300 series are the tuners. They are the "economy" model and are not as good as I'd like.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## allenhopkins

Main differences that I've seen among the different levels of Eastman, have been [a] less figured wood in the "300" series than in the higher series, [b] satin finish on the "300's," rather than the gloss finish on the higher models, and a uniform brown stain rather than sunburst, [c] as mentioned above, "economy" hardware, tuners and tailpiece, which I find fully functional but not as nice.

Among the Eastman instruments I've played, which have ranged from "300's" to "800's," I've not heard a major difference in sound.  But of course my individual experiences constitute a small comparative sampling.

You're doing the right thing, making hands-on comparisons.  The one caution I'd suggest, is to stick to playing instruments you can realistically afford to purchase.  Doesn't do a lot of good to play top-line instruments, if you end up dissatisfied with the ones you can actually buy; like test driving a Jaguar on a Morris budget.  The Hathaway, Eastman and Moon instruments you may be considering all appear to be a cut above the Ozark, Ashbury, etc. mandolins that are widely available.

Get the best one you can afford -- and "best" is purely subjective: the one _you_ like best.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

Thanks Allen, my rationale behind trying the 504 was twofold: the Eastman Gas a thinner, radiused fretboard  whereas the others have a wider flat fretboard and it gave me a chance to do a more direct comparison of f vs. oval hole. To that end it achieved my aim, I kicked the feel of the instrument and it confirmed my preference for an oval hole. The f holes that I’d played before were from different brands. 

Plus the store was the only Eastman dealer that I can reasonably get too!

----------


## derbex

I had a quick look on ebay a  Hathway mandolin went for around £400 recently.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

Thanks! your eBay skills are superior to mine! I couldn't work out how to do that. I'll see if I can get any movement on the price

----------


## Davey

What strings have you got on your existing Mandolin ?

----------


## OneChordTrick

> What strings have you got on your existing Mandolin ?


They're EJ74's, new strings was the first thing that I did to improve the after I'd sorted the action and intonation.

----------


## Mando Mort

The most important thing is to go with your own ear and get the one you feel sounds best.

This post has been educational to me as a new owner of an Eastman 615.  In reading through this post I have learned a lot about the various models and that overall people seem satisfied with the brand, particularly at the 500 level and above.

----------


## Davey

They're the best strings for the job in my opinion. They sound better after a few hours of play though. Have you listened to someone else playing your instrument ? They all sound better from the other side.

You could try a different kind of bridge if you have some free time. Bridges make a lot of difference in my opinion. My favourite has a bone top.

----------


## OneChordTrick

Thanks Davey, I've also tried a different bridge as well but it sounds as good as a $100 instrument ever will, time for me to move on. As we say over here any changes are simply "Putting lipstick on a bulldog".

----------


## OneChordTrick

Well Im sitting on the train home, the Hathway is in its bag beside me  :Smile:

----------

almeriastrings, 

colorado_al, 

derbex, 

Jill McAuley

----------


## Jill McAuley

Congratulations! Let us know your thoughts on it once you've had a chance to get to know it a wee bit!

----------


## Charlie Bernstein

> I may have misunderstood but I thought I read somewhere that the difference between the 3 and 5 series was the finish and fittings and that the woods were the same. Is that the case?


And I thought it was usually about where the neck joins the body - 3's at the twelfth fret and 5's at the fourteenth fret.

But I don't know anything, either.

----------


## Charlie Bernstein

> I know the answer will be upgrade  . . . .


You got that right!

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

A quick picture

IMG_2464 by paulfulford, on Flickr

----------

colorado_al, 

Jill McAuley

----------


## Cliff Seruntine

> Im not a fan of taking baby steps when upgrading, it winds up costing so much generally. There may be inexpensive ways of improving your Ozark until.


I with Mandoplumb on this. I'm new to the mandolin, but not to music.  I've been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I've built instruments and owned a music store.  I learned a long time back that upgrading is a great sales pitch for musical instrument sellers, but for the buyer it's a sham.  You'll lose money every time you sell an old instrument. If you keep the old instrument, you'll lose even more.  Once you get past the cheap junk intro stuff (which I wouldn't even recommend to a complete novice--it'll be so much harder to discover your potential playing a difficult instrument that sounds bad), the differences between the moderate to very good stuff are marginal.  For the most part, you can modify parts on good equipment to make it better.  And then there is the simple fact that there are musicians and there are gear heads, and gear heads like to tinker and buy instruments and equipment.  If you just want to sound good, get a decent instrument, set it up well, and focus on your playing skill.  Do it from the outset and you'll be happier and save a pile of money.  In fact, in many cases, the only really difference between an instrument and its more expensive kin is the setup and parts.

It's funny, only a couple days ago I was talking with a friend who is a pro musician.  He was telling me that he is always amused by the people looking for the gadgets and upgrades that'll make them sound good when what they should really do is focus on their practicing.  In that vein, have you ever watched a pro pick up a cheap instrument and make it sound awesome. 99.99% of good music is in the musician.

----------


## Cliff Seruntine

I completely missed that you had already bought your new instrument.  Looks like a beauty.  I really like the tailpiece. Do you know who made the tailpiece?

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## Caleb

> A quick picture
> 
> IMG_2464 by paulfulford, on Flickr


Nice mandolin!

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

> I completely missed that you had already bought your new instrument.  Looks like a beauty.  I really like the tailpiece. Do you know who made the tailpiece?


Well I only got it yesterday  :Smile: 

Paul designed the tailpiece himself and I assume has them made for him. A bit more info here http://www.paulhathway.com/about-the-instuments/

----------


## OneChordTrick

> I with Mandoplumb on this. I'm new to the mandolin, but not to music.  I've been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I've built instruments and owned a music store.  I learned a long time back that upgrading is a great sales pitch for musical instrument sellers, but for the buyer it's a sham.  You'll lose money every time you sell an old instrument. If you keep the old instrument, you'll lose even more.  Once you get past the cheap junk intro stuff (which I wouldn't even recommend to a complete novice--it'll be so much harder to discover your potential playing a difficult instrument that sounds bad), the differences between the moderate to very good stuff are marginal.  For the most part, you can modify parts on good equipment to make it better.  And then there is the simple fact that there are musicians and there are gear heads, and gear heads like to tinker and buy instruments and equipment.  If you just want to sound good, get a decent instrument, set it up well, and focus on your playing skill.  Do it from the outset and you'll be happier and save a pile of money.  In fact, in many cases, the only really difference between an instrument and its more expensive kin is the setup and parts.
> 
> It's funny, only a couple days ago I was talking with a friend who is a pro musician.  He was telling me that he is always amused by the people looking for the gadgets and upgrades that'll make them sound good when what they should really do is focus on their practicing.  In that vein, have you ever watched a pro pick up a cheap instrument and make it sound awesome. 99.99% of good music is in the musician.


If I’d started with a decent instrument I doubt that I would have started at all. I fancied seeing if I enjoyed playing the mandolin so I bought the Ozark as a cheap way to start. Not sure I would have risked the cash on some of the models that are recommended as a starter. 

The cheap starter does have a downside: the Ozark was badly set up and I gave up for a while, persevered with it then discovered this place and realised that set up was key, got a copy of Rob Meldrum’s eBook and finally made some progress. I think the Hathway will see me out a fair few years.

----------


## Johnny60

Congrats on the new Mandolin.  I reckon a Hathway should give you a lot more in the tone department than an Ozark.  Let us know what you think of it once you've had a chance to bond.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## derbex

Well done, as I have said I am very happy with mine, and yours has a few upgrades (including that tailpiece) that have come along since mine was made.

FWIW I have Savarez Argentine strings on mine, having had Newtone's on it for quite a while, and I like the sound of those.

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

@Johnny60 I can already say that it sounds far nicer. I almost bought it the first day that I played it but common sense cut in  :Smile:  and I slept on it for a while. Played it too much today and my fingers are sore. 

@derbex according to his website the tailpiece is standard now. Just ordered a set of Newtones, how do the Savarez differ?

----------

Johnny60

----------


## derbex

The Newtones are good, the Savarez are lighter gauge and seem brighter and louder, I will probably put a set of Newtones on next string change and see if I still think the same. I have been playing around with strings a bit, it's cheaper than buying a new mandolin every few months  :Smile:  Picks/plectrums are even cheaper!

One thing the Savarez have shown up is my dodgy fretting, it's easier to push the pairs out of tune with each other.

----------


## LadysSolo

> I with Mandoplumb on this. I'm new to the mandolin, but not to music.  I've been playing ever since I was a little kid, and I've built instruments and owned a music store.  I learned a long time back that upgrading is a great sales pitch for musical instrument sellers, but for the buyer it's a sham.  You'll lose money every time you sell an old instrument. If you keep the old instrument, you'll lose even more.  Once you get past the cheap junk intro stuff (which I wouldn't even recommend to a complete novice--it'll be so much harder to discover your potential playing a difficult instrument that sounds bad), the differences between the moderate to very good stuff are marginal.  For the most part, you can modify parts on good equipment to make it better.  And then there is the simple fact that there are musicians and there are gear heads, and gear heads like to tinker and buy instruments and equipment.  If you just want to sound good, get a decent instrument, set it up well, and focus on your playing skill.  Do it from the outset and you'll be happier and save a pile of money.  In fact, in many cases, the only really difference between an instrument and its more expensive kin is the setup and parts.
> 
> It's funny, only a couple days ago I was talking with a friend who is a pro musician.  He was telling me that he is always amused by the people looking for the gadgets and upgrades that'll make them sound good when what they should really do is focus on their practicing.  In that vein, have you ever watched a pro pick up a cheap instrument and make it sound awesome. 99.99% of good music is in the musician.


Yes and no - I bought a "beginner mandolin" to see if I liked it (been playing music for 52 years on other instruments) but when I decided to upgrade I went from a The Loar LM220 to a Pava Player and a Weber Bitterroot and a Collings MT. I quickly decided I liked it and I would not be satisfied with something without excellent tone, so I skipped the in-between instruments and basically bought my lifetime keepers. So if you're saying don't go for "piddly" upgrades, I totally agree. If you're telling people to go for expensive from the outset, I disagree.

----------


## Mandoplumb

> Yes and no - I bought a "beginner mandolin" to see if I liked it (been playing music for 52 years on other instruments) but when I decided to upgrade I went from a The Loar LM220 to a Pava Player and a Weber Bitterroot and a Collings MT. I quickly decided I liked it and I would not be satisfied with something without excellent tone, so I skipped the in-between instruments and basically bought my lifetime keepers. So if you're saying don't go for "piddly" upgrades, I totally agree. If you're telling people to go for expensive from the outset, I disagree.


That's exactly what I was recommending, although the OP had bought the upgrade and I hope he enjoys it. My point was make do with what you have until you can afford a real upgrade, lateral moves just cost you money that you could be saving and using to buy that top of the line upgrade.

----------


## Cliff Seruntine

> So if you're saying don't go for "piddly" upgrades, I totally agree. If you're telling people to go for expensive from the outset, I disagree.


What I mean is it's best to get at least a decent instrument from the outset.  In the mando world, one doesn't have to spend a fortune to get a decent instrument.  A cheapo will likely lead to a lot of frustration but a good instrument from the outset will be a joy to play and one might upgrade its components so well that there never needs to be an "upgrade".  If one does choose to upgrade an instrument, then save up and get a really good upgrade.  It'll save a lot of money in the long run.

Though, and I am saying this as a former musical instrument store owner, spending more does not always equal better.  I've bought plenty of violins and reconditioned them and ended up with much superior instruments.  The real art in buying a good instrument is in knowing what it is you are holding.  You never know, you might just pick up a "starter" instrument that was crafted by a brilliant young craftsman that has the quality of a much higher grade instrument.

----------


## OneChordTrick

> And I thought it was usually about where the neck joins the body - 3's at the twelfth fret and 5's at the fourteenth fret.
> 
> But I don't know anything, either.


I think that’s the difference between f and oval holes. On the A style oval hole (x04) it joins at the 12th fret on the f hole (x05) at the 14th. Can’t speak for the F style as I’ve probably already spent too much time “geeking out”  :Smile:  on mandolin specs.

----------


## OneChordTrick

> That's exactly what I was recommending, although the OP had bought the upgrade and I hope he enjoys it. My point was make do with what you have until you can afford a real upgrade, lateral moves just cost you money that you could be saving and using to buy that top of the line upgrade.


For me this is the “real upgrade”, hand made by a local luthier, can’t see myself changing soon. Certainly haven’t made a lateral move!

For a beginner the ideal situation would be to buy or rent a decent instrument before committing but that’s not always possible. Here in the UK stores that hold a stock of mandolins are few and far between and whilst most will order one in they don’t have any expertise to be able to recommend an instrument. Plus over here they seem to be at least 30% more expensive than in the US. and because they’re not that popular they rarely appear in thrift stores.

----------


## pheffernan

> For me this is the real upgrade, hand made by a local luthier, cant see myself changing soon. Certainly havent made a lateral move!

----------

OneChordTrick

----------


## OneChordTrick

> Congratulations! Let us know your thoughts on it once you've had a chance to get to know it a wee bit!


Well I've had it a few days and it's exactly what I was looking for, lovely warm tone, perfectly setup and, now that I've got more familiar with it easy to play!

Can't really ask for more!

----------


## derbex

Looks in great condition -I envy you the tuners and tail piece.

----------


## OneChordTrick

Thanks, there are a couple of minor "dings", you can see them on the back. But I knew about them before I bought it and it saves me the worry of putting the first dent in it  :Smile: 

The tailpiece is a thing of beauty I thing - I'm assuming that Paul drew on his experience as jeweler when he designed it?

----------


## LadysSolo

That's what I was thinking - I LOVE the tailpiece!

----------

