# Music by Genre > Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex >  Tunes like Shady Grove?

## sbhikes

Can you name any other sad tunes similar to Shady Grove and Scarborough Fair? Are there any in the old-time genre?

----------


## bingoccc

St. James Infirmary?

----------


## Tobin

Old Time is chock full of minor, sad, eerie tunes.  Try Elzic's Farewell, Elk River Blues, and if you really want a dark tune, Blackwater Flood.  That last one may not really be Old Time, but I love the haunting sound of it.

----------


## mandocrucian

SF psychedelic take on "Shady Grove" by Quicksilver (Messenger Service)

----------

George R. Lane, 

jhowell, 

Marty Jacobson

----------


## MikeEdgerton

I want he had. I don't know how I missed that. I was a fan.

----------


## Bertram Henze

Didn't know Shady Grove, which seems to be an OT take on the Irish/British Matty Groves or Little Musgrave. Another interesting transatlantic cooperation.

P.S. if you want really sad, you'll find plenty this side the Atlantic, e.g....

----------


## Jacob

*Omie Wise* (17891808) was an American murder victim, who is remembered by a popular murder ballad about her death.

----------

Marty Jacobson

----------


## Tom C

I like playing Little Sadie

----------

Dan Co1e

----------


## allowishish

Not old time, but my favorite sad/depressing song  is  Townes Van Zandt's "Marie".
That song just gets more depressing the further into it you go.

----------

citeog

----------


## foldedpath

This one's a classic -- "Waterbound" with Dirk Powell and a bunch of A-list musicians from Nashville and the UK:

----------


## sbhikes

> *Omie Wise* (1789–1808) was an American murder victim, who is remembered by a popular murder ballad about her death.


That's a pretty one.

----------


## Sleet

To me, "Come all ye fair and tender ladies" or "The water is wide" seem to have a similar old songs vibe.

----------


## Fretless

A couple of my favorites are _Sally in the Garden"_ and _Rain and Snow."_

----------


## Mark Wilson

Wayfaring Stranger up tempo as an instrumental is a pretty cool 'sad' tune.

----------


## patty6363

I've started playing with "My Flower, My Companion, & Me" - I know it seems very similar to the June carter Cash song, "Faded Flowers".  Working on trying to pick more & strum the chords a bit less.  Taking it slow, tryin to get it right.   Not on anyone's timetable but my own....

----------


## WJC4

Sure, just google "modal" tunes.  Fiddle players and old time banjo players (especially) love them.  Banjo players like them because they can tune into odd tunings like "Sawmill" and play a lot of open strings - the tunes almost play themselves in sawmill and double c, old g, etc. There are really a lot of them.  They all have that melancholy, Ralph Stanly mountain sound.

----------


## Tobin

> Sure, just google "modal" tunes.  Fiddle players and old time banjo players (especially) love them.  Banjo players like them because they can tune into odd tunings like "Sawmill" and play a lot of open strings - the tunes almost play themselves in sawmill and double c, old g, etc. There are really a lot of them.  They all have that melancholy, Ralph Stanly mountain sound.


I loves me some modal tunes!  And I agree, one of the beautiful things about modal tunes is that they can take several different moods or characters or flavors, depending on the tuning choices.  I've been playing clawhammer banjo in sawmill tuning the last few days just for experimentation purposes, and I'm loving the sound.  The old description of "mountain minor" is pretty accurate for capturing the feel.  It's not truly a minor sound because it's not using a flat third (it's a suspended 4 actually), but has an eerie old-world haunting mood.

One good example that springs to mind is a fiddle tune I love playing on the fiddle, _Brushy Fork of John's Creek_.  It's modal, and it can have either a happy stomp-your-foot groove or a more melancholy sound.  And a lot of it depends on the banjo, as to whether that one string is tuned to B or C.  (For those who don't know, "open G" tuning on a banjo is gDGbd, making a major chord, while "sawmill" is gDGcd, making a sus4 chord.)

Here's an example of _Brushy Fork_ with the banjo in open G tuning (well, open A, actually).  It has a rather happy groovy sound.




And here's an example of the same tune with the banjo in sawmill tuning.  They're playing it in the key of G rather than the usual A, but listen to the difference in the way the banjo sounds.  Rather a darker mood with sawmill tuning.  I love this sound.

----------


## WJC4

Tobin, man that is awesome!  Yet another reason why, when I ask a girl out, one of my first questions is "Do you play fiddle?"!  Seriously, great version!

----------


## WJC4

Here is my favorite - Dock Boggs "Bright Sunny South"

----------


## allenhopkins

Some sad "modal" tunes that I've played:

Pete Seeger's version of _Lady Margaret_



Doc Watson's take on Dock Boggs' _Country Blues_



_Wild Bill Jones;_ many versions of this -- I took mine from Mike Seeger, and this field recording seems the closest to Mike's version.  There are, of course, many more verses.

----------


## RobinAronson

Down in the Willow Garden in G. Not modal, but has E-minor chords in it.  There's a nice version on YouTube by Dan Tyminski - not much mandolin in it but nice to jam along with.

----------


## Bertram Henze

The word modal is being used in different meanings, very misleading:

- scales other than the popular Ionian and Aeolian (Major and Minor)
- tunings or chords without a third

Both can sound sad and lonely, but for different reasons.

----------


## Mark Wilson

> Down in the Willow Garden in G. Not modal, but has E-minor chords in it.  There's a nice version on YouTube by Dan Tyminski - not much mandolin in it but nice to jam along with.

----------


## Tobin

> The word modal is being used in different meanings, very misleading:
> 
> - scales other than the popular Ionian and Aeolian (Major and Minor)
> - tunings or chords without a third
> 
> Both can sound sad and lonely, but for different reasons.


Unfortunately, that particular Pandora's Box was opened a long time before any of us were born.  One can be a stickler about which particular mode is being used, but the common lexicon allows (even encourages) the generic use of "modal" as you described.  Trying to explain the difference to people who haven't studied music theory can be an exercise in futility.  At this point, I think everyone pretty well understands what is meant by the term as a catch-all.

----------

Mark Gunter

----------

