# Technique, Theory, Playing Tips and Tricks > Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks >  Finding chord shapes in same area of fretboard

## joni24

I'm trying to learn some closed position chord shapes for basic progressions such as I-IV-V and III-VI-II-V where your hand doesn't have to jump around a lot on the fretboard.  For example, through trial and error I stumbled upon this I-IV-V progression in the key of E where your 1st finger stays around the 4th fret:  4-6-7-x,  6-7-7-x, 4-4-6-7 for the E, A and B chords, respectively.  Does anyone know of a source where this kind of information may already be spelled out?  Thanks!

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## Rob Beck

Have you tried the FFcP approach on the JazzMando site?

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## Phil Goodson

Joni,

Just consider the GENERAL rule that you can take ANY 4 finger chord and move the entire shape bassward by one string to go to the 4 chord, or trebleward (is that a word?) by one string to get to the 5 chord.

For your E example above, I tend to like 9-6-7-0 for the E, 6-7-0-0 or 6770 FOR THE A, AND 899x or 11-9-6-7 for the B.  (this particular key example allows open strings, but the principle holds for other keys.)

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## joni24

> Have you tried the FFcP approach on the JazzMando site?


I actually have Ted's Getting into Jazz Mandolin book but am still working on the first set of FFcP scale exercises in all 4 positions.  (Good stuff, it's helped me already in being able to take simple breaks in difficult keys...) Looking ahead in the book I haven't been able to find the simple chord change progressions I'm looking for at this point, but they may very well be hiding somewhere in the material.  What I've found encorporates lots of 7ths, 9ths, flat 5's etc in the chord shapes.

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## joni24

> Joni,
> 
> Just consider the GENERAL rule that you can take ANY 4 finger chord and move the entire shape bassward by one string to go to the 4 chord, or trebleward (is that a word?) by one string to get to the 5 chord.
> 
> For your E example above, I tend to like 9-6-7-0 for the E, 6-7-0-0 or 6770 FOR THE A, AND 899x or 11-9-6-7 for the B.  (this particular key example allows open strings, but the principle holds for other keys.)


Yes, your E example is exactly what I'm looking for (starting with that particular chord shape)!  Your GENERAL rule makes a lot of sense, I never thought of the chord relationships that way.  Let's try a different case now, say in the key of B where the B chord is made 4-4-6-7.  The easiest E (IV) chord going along with that would be 4-6-7-x, but what would be the best F# (V) chord?

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## SincereCorgi

Hi Joni- what worked for me was a multi-step process:

1) learn a closed major chord and all its 3-string inversions, and be particular about which note (1st, 3rd, 5th) is in its bass and (because it ends up being more useful) what note is at the top of the stack, too

2) practice your inversions thoroughly up and down the first octave of fretboard, building it both the bottom three and top three strings

3) learn to do the same thing with all 12 major chords; it will be much easier if you've learned that first chord very thoroughly and the inversions are automatic

4) now, pick a progression, like I-V-I at first, and practice doing it with all three chord inversions as I and, naturally, the most convenient V. Once you can do this all over the neck and in all keys, expand it to I-IV-V-I, etc 

...then go back and learn how to alter all your chords to make minors, and then you can start doing progressions with a more interesting chord mixture like I-vi-ii-V-I. Then add dominant 7th chords, then maybe 145 suspensions or diminished chords, etc. the Mike Marshall chord DVD is a great foundation for this, and I've heard the Hokannen chord booklet is supposed to have a good explanation, too.

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joni24, 

kohaylan

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## Beanzy

> The easiest E (IV) chord going along with that would be 4-6-7-x, but what would be the best F# (V) chord?


2 frets up the neck from the E will be F# simple slide.

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Phil Goodson

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## Mandobart

> For example, through trial and error I stumbled upon this I-IV-V progression in the key of E where your 1st finger stays around the 4th fret:  4-6-7-x,  6-7-7-x, 4-4-6-7 for the E, A and B chords, respectively.  Does anyone know of a source where this kind of information may already be spelled out?  Thanks!


Don't know of a written source, but these are shapes I use frequently, especially on the OM and mandocello where these shapes help on the longer scale, and barres are easier to do on the wider fingerboard.  I do them a little different by using the barre with my index finger laying flat; every 4 fret is the index finger.  The 6 fret is my ring finger and 7th is the pinkie.  Where used, the 5th fret is played with the middle finger.  So E is 4-6-7-4,  A is 6-7-4-5 and B is 4-4-6-7.  These are very versatile shapes.  In these chord shapes, the pinky is always the root.  A 7th chord can be played in any of these shapes by lifting the pinky and placing the middle finger down two frets below.  Similarly, the minor form is done by lifting the ring finger (which is the 3rd of the chord triad) and placing the middle finger 1 fret below (this flats the 3rd, making the major chord into a minor chord).  You'll notice that in this example it sounds fine on the Bm chord (4-4-5-7), but on the E and A (if you want to play all 4 courses) you need to make some changes.  One way is to flatten the pinky across the higher string 7th fret.  So Em is 4-5-7-7. I play Am in this shape as 5-7-7-8 and move the index barre up from the 4th to 5th fret.  Keeping with the original shape and not moving the left hand up nor down though, I would omit the E string and play it as 5-7-7-x.

Another useful moveable shape is a Bb in the first position 3-3-1-1, C as 5-5-3-3, etc.  A couple neat things about this shape are:  The root is the lowest note played, like typical guitar chords.  It consists of two pairs of notes, spaced an octave apart, the 1st and the 5th of the triad; that is the C example is actually played C-G-C-G.  Cool droning sound.  Lastly, because the 3rd of the triad is not played, this becomes a power chord, and can be used as a major or minor depending on the musical context.  A form of this many of us play without realizing it is A as 2-2-0-0.

Another good moveable shape is E played as 4-2-2-4, noted B-E-B-G#.  This has all three notes of the triad, and is an easy switch between the chord described above as Bb.  So in the key of E, the I is played 4-2-2-4, the IV (A) is 1-1-4-5 and the V (B) is 4-4-2-2.  I, IV, V all without moving the index finger off the 2nd fret.  Like the first example this one also works all the way up the neck.

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Gelsenbury, 

joni24, 

kohaylan

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## Phil Goodson

Joni,

Is your head spinning yet?   
That's why I gave a General rule and one example.  So you could work it out in simple fashion.

If you're just playing along with people and not getting too complicated and you're just starting to learn this stuff, you don't need to spend hours of time practicing 45 inversions of C#.   Just find a couple shapes for each chord and you'll find that a usable chord is seldom far from where you are.

Most of all, have fun, and expect things to get easier and even more fun as you go. :Smile:

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## JonZ

Two resources to consider are Mike Marshall's "The Chord Book", and the PDF available on Pete Martins website. I don't know how directly they answer your questions, but they do address how "real musicians" voice their chords.

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## mandocrucian

You may find this helpful: *Niles Hokkanen's Guide To Mandolin Chords*

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## joni24

Wow, folks, thanks for all the good ideas and suggestions!  I have to admit that I'm somewhat of a music theory nut, so while my head is in a spin from all this information, it's just what I've been looking for.  I find that I can learn and retain faster when I understand the big picture as well as the foundation upon which the information is based.  So my next step is to try and digest some of the ideas above to see what works best.  You guys (and gals) are awesome!

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## BMilam

You might want to check out http://fretboard-toolbox.com/ as well.  They have some pretty nifty printed books (and PDFs).  I have no financial interest in their products, just passing along the info.

Sort of a strange first post for me, but what the heck!

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## joni24

> Don't know of a written source, but these are shapes I use frequently, especially on the OM and mandocello where these shapes help on the longer scale, and barres are easier to do on the wider fingerboard.  I do them a little different by using the barre with my index finger laying flat; every 4 fret is the index finger.  The 6 fret is my ring finger and 7th is the pinkie.  Where used, the 5th fret is played with the middle finger.  So E is 4-6-7-4,  A is 6-7-4-5 and B is 4-4-6-7.  These are very versatile shapes.  In these chord shapes, the pinky is always the root.  A 7th chord can be played in any of these shapes by lifting the pinky and placing the middle finger down two frets below.  Similarly, the minor form is done by lifting the ring finger (which is the 3rd of the chord triad) and placing the middle finger 1 fret below (this flats the 3rd, making the major chord into a minor chord).  You'll notice that in this example it sounds fine on the Bm chord (4-4-5-7), but on the E and A (if you want to play all 4 courses) you need to make some changes.  One way is to flatten the pinky across the higher string 7th fret.  So Em is 4-5-7-7. I play Am in this shape as 5-7-7-8 and move the index barre up from the 4th to 5th fret.  Keeping with the original shape and not moving the left hand up nor down though, I would omit the E string and play it as 5-7-7-x.



This really makes sense and I love the fact that you can easily and consistently switch to the minor or 7th by switching one finger.  Am having a problem making the barre but am happy just using 3 courses and leaving out the E-string. 




> Another useful moveable shape is a Bb in the first position 3-3-1-1, C as 5-5-3-3, etc.  A couple neat things about this shape are:  The root is the lowest note played, like typical guitar chords.  It consists of two pairs of notes, spaced an octave apart, the 1st and the 5th of the triad; that is the C example is actually played C-G-C-G.  Cool droning sound.  Lastly, because the 3rd of the triad is not played, this becomes a power chord, and can be used as a major or minor depending on the musical context.  A form of this many of us play without realizing it is A as 2-2-0-0.
> 
> Another good moveable shape is E played as 4-2-2-4, noted B-E-B-G#.  This has all three notes of the triad, and is an easy switch between the chord described above as Bb.  So in the key of E, the I is played 4-2-2-4, the IV (A) is 1-1-4-5 and the V (B) is 4-4-2-2.  I, IV, V all without moving the index finger off the 2nd fret.  Like the first example this one also works all the way up the neck.


Am having a problem getting each individual note to ring clearly when making the barre chords:  4-2-2-4 and 4-4-2-2. What fingering are you using for the other 2 strings for each of these?  Would love to be able to add them to my growing arsenal of go-to chords.

One more question for all:  What are your preferred ways to make closed position chords in a progression such as vi-ii-V-I?

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## Phil Goodson

Joni,

Since you mention that you're a music theory nut, you should also check out pickloser's blog that has a great explanation of how to use doublestops.   This will give you another way to get the fretboard map solidly into your brain and adding practical info that will help your playing.   Here's the link.

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## Phil Goodson

> ...
> One more question for all:  What are your preferred ways to make closed position chords in a progression such as vi-ii-V-I?


Honestly, I usually just use the 3 or 4 finger bluegrass chop chord shapes for most of these type progressions.

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## Phil Vinyard

You might try these (attached). I give this chord chart to my mandolin and jam class students. These chords all stay pretty close together, and can easily go up the neck or over a string to cover more territory.  

I've posted this before, but this version has some minor changes based on feedback from Cafe members.

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Geordie, 

joni24, 

kohaylan

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## joni24

> You might try these (attached). I give this chord chart to my mandolin and jam class students. These chords all stay pretty close together, and can easily go up the neck or over a string to cover more territory.


Hey Phil, I do remember seeing this chart back when you first posted it on MC.  At that time I wasn't far enough along to be thinking about quick chord changes and portability but now it really fits in.  With the exception of the Em, all the other chords on your chart are moveable and the layout is very much what I was looking for.  Now I'd like to add the ii and iii chords to it and I believe my initial query will be answered.  Thanks!

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## John Gardinsky

> Yes, your E example is exactly what I'm looking for (starting with that particular chord shape)! Your GENERAL rule makes a lot of sense, I never thought of the chord relationships that way. Let's try a different case now, say in the key of B where the B chord is made 4-4-6-7. The easiest E (IV) chord going along with that would be 4-6-7-x, but what would be the best F# (V) chord?


If you are not fond of 6-4-4-6 for F# then you might try 6-4-7-6 which is F#7.  It functions as the V7 in your Key of B example.

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## JeffD

I personally don't do many barre chords. I do a lot of chords that could be barred, but I do a finger for each note. I find that to do a barre chord puts my hand at an angle that I have to recover from when I go on to something else. The thumb seems to want to be more towards the center line of the neck, or something like that.  Unless I played all barre chords, (which I have tried) its awkward to change keep changing back and forth. 

Everyone is different and many folks use them to good effect.

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## Mandobart

> Am having a problem getting each individual note to ring clearly when making the barre chords:  4-2-2-4 and 4-4-2-2. What fingering are you using for the other 2 strings for each of these?  Would love to be able to add them to my growing arsenal of go-to chords.


Joni - Not sure what you mean by "the other 2 strings."  Do you mean the courses not being barred?  I play 4-2-2-4 with ring (on the G course)-index (on the D course)-index (on the A course)-pinky (on the E course).  ring-index-middle-pinky also works (no barre).  I admit it is easier to get a clean sound by placing the index just across the D and A strings rather than across the whole fretboard like a standard barre.  I finger 4-4-2-2 as ring-pinky-index-index.  Again it may be easier to get a clean sound by just placing the index across the A and E courses and not barre completely across the fretboard.

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## Mandobart

> One more question for all:  What are your preferred ways to make closed position chords in a progression such as vi-ii-V-I?


So this doesn't directly answer your question, as I sometimes/often use a combo of open and closed chord shapes.  Example, in the key of C, vi-ii-V-I is Am, Dm, G, C.  Am = 5-7-7-8.  Dm is 7-7-8-10 (or x-0-8-10).  G is 7-5-5-7 (or 0-5-5-7).  C is 5-5-7-8.

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## joni24

OK, based upon everyone's feedback above plus a little more noodling on my own, I think I've started to unlock what I'm looking for.  My goal is to start with various chord shapes as the root and find the commonly used chords (IV, V, vi, ii) that can be used with minimum jumping around on the fretboard.  (I'm ignoring open strings for this exercise, since my goal in this effort is to be able to have portable progressions that I can use when my friends want to sing in their favorite keys such as F#, C#, etc.)  Here's what I have so far for the 3 chord shapes that I use most often:

Sample key of E:  I - IV - vi - ii - V is E, A, C#m, F#m, B
Chord shapes: 4-6-7-x,  6-7-7-x,  6-6-7-9,  6-7-9-x,  4-4-6-7

Sample key of C:  I - IV - vi - ii - V is C, F, Am, Dm, G
Chord shapes (using closed positions): 5-5-7-8,  5-7-8-x,  5-7-7-8,  7-7-8-10,  7-9-10-x

Sample key of F#:  I - IV - vi - ii - V is F#, B, D#m, G#m, C#
Chord shapes:  3-4-4-x,  4-4-6-x,  3-4-6-6,  4-6-6-7,  6-3-4-x

My goal is to get familiar enough with these various shapes and relative positions that I don''t need to stop and think what the chord name is in the middle of a song.  Make sense to anyone?

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## Champ49

> You might try these (attached). I give this chord chart to my mandolin and jam class students. These chords all stay pretty close together, and can easily go up the neck or over a string to cover more territory.  
> 
> I've posted this before, but this version has some minor changes based on feedback from Cafe members.


Phil, have been trying to find the chord chard for Tenor Guitar, and found your nifty chart for Mandolin.  You wouldn't have one for Tenor, would you?  That would be GDBE. Thanks, Champ49

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## Phil Vinyard

> Phil, have been trying to find the chord chard for Tenor Guitar, and found your nifty chart for Mandolin.  You wouldn't have one for Tenor, would you?  That would be GDBE. Thanks, Champ49


No, I'm a Mando player and can't claim any expertise in Tenor Guitar. I did use QwikChord  http://www.qwikchord.com/portal/index.php to make the diagrams. Might try it out to see if it helps you document some good chords.

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## "Umm, fish?"

Since you say you are a music theory nut, try Googling "voice leading." The basic idea is to try to connect the chord changes as much as possible in order to make the changes smooth, so that they sound less like a bunch of disjointed and disconnected chords. Then, you have the control to throw in a big leap on occasion so it comes across as a surprise. You'll find most of the theory is applied to piano or guitar but it all works for mandolin, too. 

You haven't told us what your playing situation is. That is, is this for solo playing? Or are you playing with a group where you don't necessarily need to play the bass notes?

So, if you have a bass player they are probably playing the root and the 5th of the chords. Is there any need for you to play those notes? Not really. So what's necessary for you to play to get across the harmonic information? I tend to play blues and jazz, so for me I need to play 3rds and 7ths. If you are playing bluegrass then I'd probably stay away from 7ths. I guess you could probably play root and 3rds or 3rds and 5ths. (Or, alternate between the root and 5th to make it more interesting for yourself.) 

But by whittling down the chord to the minimum number of tones you need to express the harmony, you can work out easily fingered "chordlettes" that are quite close to each other. It also makes it nice to throw in passing tones as you are moving from one chord to the next that lead the ear to the next chord. They might get you some nasty looks since they'll be non-diatonic, but they'll sound really good in, say, a blues context. Or maybe no one in the bluegrass group will notice since everyone's ears are really trained to accept the bluesy sound anyway.

At any rate, that's the road that I'm traveling these days. I'm trying to break away from a bunch of memorized, static chord shapes so I can play moving lines of harmony that flow. Your mileage may vary.  :Smile:

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## Champ49

Thanks Phil.  I'll check that out.  I have an old one that I made up but it's hard to read and doesn't include those odd ball chords like D2, etc.

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## joni24

> Since you say you are a music theory nut, try Googling "voice leading." The basic idea is to try to connect the chord changes as much as possible in order to make the changes smooth, so that they sound less like a bunch of disjointed and disconnected chords. Then, you have the control to throw in a big leap on occasion so it comes across as a surprise. You'll find most of the theory is applied to piano or guitar but it all works for mandolin, too. 
> 
> You haven't told us what your playing situation is. That is, is this for solo playing? Or are you playing with a group where you don't necessarily need to play the bass notes?


Hmmm, voice leading, very interesting.  I hadn't heard this term before but in reading about it, it is along the lines that I'd like to pursue down the road a bit.  I'm still pretty new to the mandolin, only been playing for a little over a year.  My focus right now is a better understanding of the fretboard and the various chords available to me whatever hand position I may be in.  I try to play with others every chance I can, mostly at jams, parties and festival campsites. The mix of the jam can vary from just one other person (guitar) to a dozen or more, including bass.  Right now I'm focused on bluegrass, fiddle tunes, folk & soft rock.  Next year, with a little more experience under my belt, I'd like to move on to blues & swing.  I'm guessing that voice leading would fit in real well at that time...   Thanks for your comments.

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## Don Julin

The odds are pretty good that if we asked 3 mandolin players how to play an A chord, we would get three different answers. That is because specific styles of music require specific chord forms. Bluegrass, swing, old-time, rock, choro and others all have there own chording style that helps identify the style. 

All of that aside, chords are real just a combination of three notes. In it's most simple form on the mandolin, we can play three different forms (shapes) for each chord based on how we arrange the notes, with the only rule being that all three notes must be used and no notes are doubled. Here is a video that demonstrates these three major chord forms on the mandolin.

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Geordie, 

kohaylan, 

robert.najlis

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## Rosemary Philips

Once again, really helpful explanation, Don!

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## joni24

> In it's most simple form on the mandolin, we can play three different forms (shapes) for each chord based on how we arrange the notes, with the only rule being that all three notes must be used and no notes are doubled. Here is a video that demonstrates these three major chord forms on the mandolin.


Hey, Don, thanks so much for your reply and for directing me to this video.  The linking of the I-IV-V chords together towards the end of the video is part of what I was looking for.  Do you by chance have any follow-on videos showing other common progressions such as I-vi-ii-V,  III-vi-II-V, etc. (perhaps more common in swing/jazz than in bluegrass)?  

BTW, your Mandolin for Dummies book is great!  I can't believe the amount of work it must have taken to put all that together... amazing.

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## Capt. E

The book "Fretboard Roadmaps - Mandolin" will give you a very good description of the various movable chord shapes. It made everything much clearer for me, at least.

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## joni24

> The book "Fretboard Roadmaps - Mandolin" will give you a very good description of the various movable chord shapes. It made everything much clearer for me, at least.


Thanks for the recommendation, I went ahead and ordered it.  For the price, it's worth a gamble.  Even if it doesn't have exactly what I'm looking for in the way of chord progressions, the content should still really help me in my mandolin journey.

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## pickloser

In the most recent issue of Mandolin Magazine, Don Stiernberg presents an excellent tutorial on movable chord shapes.  That alone was worth the price of my subscription for the year.  (Plenty more to love about the mag.  NFI.)

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## Don Julin

Not sure if this is considered marketing or spamming but chapter 7 of "Mandolin for Dummies" is dedicated to to three note "Jethro" style chording.

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## Ted Eschliman

Might find something useful here:


Streams of 7th chords

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## Turnip Mountain Picker

This is movable all over the fretboardChords.doc

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## Danny Thomasson

In Mandolin for Dummies there is a chapter devoted to Jethro Burns.  He has chords developed in the fashion you are describing.

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## bobby bill

> In the most recent issue of Mandolin Magazine, Don Stiernberg presents an excellent tutorial on movable chord shapes. That alone was worth the price of my subscription for the year. (Plenty more to love about the mag. NFI.)


Don't you think that in that article, where he is listing 6-8 examples, there are supposed to be illustrations to go with that and the magazine just forgot to put them in?  I love the magazine but there seemed to be some sloppiness this month.  In Marilyn Mair's article, there are two different composers listed for the same piece.  A few of the articles could have used some editing.

Still, an excellent article by Don Stiernberg . . . . as always.

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## joni24

> Don't you think that in that article, where he is listing 6-8 examples, there are supposed to be illustrations to go with that and the magazine just forgot to put them in?  I love the magazine but there seemed to be some sloppiness this month.  In Marilyn Mair's article, there are two different composers listed for the same piece.  A few of the articles could have used some editing.
> 
> Still, an excellent article by Don Stiernberg . . . . as always.


I agree that Donny Stiernberg is a phenomenal player and excellent teacher. (I was fortunate to attend a couple of his classes at this year's mandolin symposium in Santa Cruz).  As far as Mandolin Magazine goes, I find myself being frustrated that there are no mp3 examples or accompanying CD for each issue like there is for Flatpicking Guitar magazine.  Am I missing something?  It would really be a valuable add-on to the material presented in the magazine.

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## pickloser

> Don't you think that in that article, where he is listing 6-8 examples, there are supposed to be illustrations to go with that and the magazine just forgot to put them in?  I love the magazine but there seemed to be some sloppiness this month.  In Marilyn Mair's article, there are two different composers listed for the same piece.  A few of the articles could have used some editing.
> 
> Still, an excellent article by Don Stiernberg . . . . as always.


You may be right.  I had just gotten my issue a day or two before I posted, and I had only read Don's article on the quick, said "cool" to myself and planned to study it later.  mp3s would be great with MM, but even without those I'm happy to get some new pieces to learn.  I have to admit too that, except for what Don writes, I generally just skip the articles and go straight to the tunes.

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## mandroid

2 string 'chords' C in the middle 2..  the IV is on the lower 2, the V  is the high 2.. 
 5 string ..  3 note chords are usable.

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## groveland

Over at jazzcittern.com find ModeExplorer web apps online. Free.  One that might illustrate chord-building and inversions (and more) would be the Expedition Pack:



http://jazzcittern.com

Gotta keep your Firefox, Safari or Chrome browsers reasonably up to date.  Have fun!

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## Jean-Pierre WOOS

I use a "private" way about that question.
With a few words: everybody knows the fingering of a diminished chords. Move that chord 3 frets up or down, and you have… the same chord.
Now: move only one finger one fret down (regardless of the finger): you are now playing a seventh chord and the root is on the finger you have moved. You can play now 4 different seventh chords on each dim grip.
That chord contain root, 3th, 5th and flat 7. You can move fingers to play chords with b3, sus4, and b5 or#5  and 6 or maj7.
Thus, you can play almost anything using a fingering that moves one minor third (three frets) maximum, and most often in jazz, one or two fingers only move one or two frets.

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## groveland

> ...everybody knows the fingering of a diminished chords. Move that chord 3 frets up or down, and you have… the same chord.
> Now: move only one finger one fret down (regardless of the finger): you are now playing a seventh chord and the root is on the finger you have moved. You can play now 4 different seventh chords on each dim grip.


That's a great answer...  I recommend giving it a shot.

I was visiting the Journal of the Society of Music Theory and ran across a good article on Pat Martino's approach.

He sees the chromatic scale like the face of a clock.

A "diminished" (o7) chord is a square, perhaps corners at 12, 3, 6, and 9. Move any single corner of the square (diminished) back one, you get a dom7 chord.  That's what M. Woos describes above, which is particularly easy to see in fifths tuning, and is handy for better voice leading. Not as handy, but in a similar way, if you raise a note of an aug chord, you get a minor chord; lower one, you have major.

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## joni24

> A "diminished" (o7) chord is a square, perhaps corners at 12, 3, 6, and 9. Move any single corner of the square (diminished) back one, you get a dom7 chord.  That's what M. Woos describes above, which is particularly easy to see in fifths tuning, and is handy for better voice leading. Not as handy, but in a similar way, if you raise a note of an aug chord, you get a minor chord; lower one, you have major.


I find this interesting in understanding a little more of the fretboard.  However, I'm not seeing how this could be applied in very many tunes or chord progressions.  For example, in the key of C, one Cdim chord would be 5-4-6-5 (C-F#-D#-A).  By moving one finger down a fret, you could make each of the following dominant 7th chords: B, F, D or G#.  Thinking in terms of chord progressions, what would be some songs or tunes that would go from the diminished to one of these related dominant chords?  Or am I totally missing the point on this concept?  (Sorry for being so dense!)

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## "Umm, fish?"

Diminished chords are often used as passing chords that resolve either up a half-step or down a half-step. What they resolve _to_ is really just where ever you need to go.

I did a Google search on "how diminished chords resolve" and came across a Bach chorale that uses a diminished chord as a prep to resolve to a V (dominant) chord. Also, there's a Haydn piece that resolves one into a minor II chord. There are sound samples:

http://www.tonalityguide.com/xxdim7.php

And, of course, they often resolve up or down to the tonic major.

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## Jean-Pierre WOOS

That is the way I do it:
(Sorry for my bad english... I, normally, speak french... 
For example: "It had to be you". The chords change I use is:  
⎟G6 ⎟ % ⎟ E7 ⎟ %  ⎟ A9 ⎟ % ⎟ A7 ⎟% ⎢D7 ⎢D#o ⎢G6 ⎢ % ⎢  A9 ⎢% ⎢ D7 ⎢D7#5 ⎢G6 ⎢.../...
Building *G6*: I search a fingering of a dim chord with a G#. For example: 7687 (G# is on the 3th string; 6th fret). Then i move that finger 1 fret lower: 7587, this is a G7. I don't need a 7th but a 6th: then i play 7577. That is my G6 I play at the beginning of that tune.
Now, I need to build a *E7*: I use the same G#dim chord 7687 but, i move my finger on the 2d string: 7677. That is E7.
G6 --> E7: only one finger move 1 fret:  7577 --> 7677
Now, i build a *A9* i search a dim chord with an A# near the 7th fret: 6576. I move the finger from A# to A: 6575. That's a A7. To play a A9, I raise the same finger 1 tone higher: 6577.
Now, I need a *D7*: I have a dim chord with a D# here: 5465, the D7 is: 5455..., then D#dim.
Now we have all the needed chords: 7577 - % - 7677 - % - 6577 - % - 6575 - 5455 - 5465 - 7577 - % - 6577 - % - 5455 - 5456 - 7577.../...
Lowest fret: 4: highest: 7 = a minor 3th...

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## joni24

Thanks, Jean-Pierre, that totally makes sense, although I must admit that my playing ability is still well below the level of a song with that many chord changes!  But that's my goal for the upcoming year or two: start playing some jazz & swing songs. I guess one big point that I've learned from your post is how to search for effective chords when you're working out a song ahead of time.  In my original post I was focusing on a couple of the most common chord progressions and how to develop a sort of "motor memory" so that you can instinctively find the chords from wherever you are on the fretboard. By piecing together tips from many of the great posts in this thread I think I'm on my way.  Thanks to all who have responded.

Ps.  Jean-Pierre, your English is just fine!

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## stevejay

The Joe Carr book on Rhythm is pretty good as well. Actually the advice given to learn a couple of chord shapes for a chord was good. In 1st and second position by knowing 2 we're in pretty good shape for starters. That's my plan at least. Sometime there are little passing shapes between 2 inversions, find them by ear. 

It's fun, and you are really just focusing on 2 inversions with a little  segway between. If you can name it, cool, if not I just remember the shape. Less clutter for the head.

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## "Umm, fish?"

With four-note chords, when making the all important V to I chord change the first inversion (root in the bass) and third inversion (5th in the bass) work really well together going either way. 

Second inversion (3rd in the bass) and fourth inversion (7th in the bass) also work really well together going either way. (The fourth inversion doesn't sound incredibly satisfying as an endpoint I chord because of the 7th in the bass. As a transition, though, it's still nice.)

It's harder when you want to mix the inversions in other ways (but hard can be fun, too). But I definitely practice those inversion pairings in all sorts of different ways so that they are quite hard-wired.

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## Pasha Alden

Love that quote and when I have my mando in hand I will surely be able to put what you have just told us to use.  Regards 
Vanillamandolin

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## Pasha Alden

Thanks for this - my head is spinning She is an apprentice, I am a new beginner and am just trying to learn and now for that drink to calm that spinning head 
Best Vanillamandolin

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