# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Bacon mandolin

## Charles E.

This looks pretty sweet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Baco...item35bec9a67c

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## brunello97

You betcha.

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## Jim Garber

I believe that that is the professional model. I have an Artist (4point) and an Amateur (no points).

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## F-2 Dave

I like it. But then, who doesn't like bacon?

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## f5loar

Looks like the middle model and from the 30's.   I'd like to find a nice 30's Walter K. Bauer signature artist model.

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## delsbrother

Any guess on the over/under? Price vs. similar Gibson A models?

Obviously a "real" Bacon Artist is worth more on the open market than the Eastman copy, but where do the "lesser" models rank?

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## Jim Garber

Rather than start a new thread...

Scott noted this *Bacon Artist* on the MC homepage. The color of this one is unusual. I can't quite tell if the original finish faded or it was made with this yellowish look originally. For comparison, I posted mine which is #204. The current eBay one is missing its tailpiece but other than that looks all right. I have never seen one with that finish. Every one I have seen has had that reddish-brown sunburst.

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## ajr

> Rather than start a new thread...
> 
> Scott noted this *Bacon Artist* on the MC homepage. The color of this one is unusual. I can't quite tell if the original finish faded or it was made with this yellowish look originally. For comparison, I posted mine which is #204. The current eBay one is missing its tailpiece but other than that looks all right. I have never seen one with that finish. Every one I have seen has had that reddish-brown sunburst.


Jim,
I have what I thought was a Professional. It's a 2 Pointer. I thought all of the 4 Pointers were Artist Models. I'm pretty sure I got that idea from a previous thread on the Cafe. Not certain though. 
All the best

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## Jim Garber

Alex: I am not sure what your question is. That one currently on eBay is an Artist model with 4 points. I was just questioning the finish color.

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## Darryl Wolfe

> Looks like the middle model and from the 30's.   I'd like to find a nice 30's Walter K. Bauer signature artist model.


Wm. Place Jr.  and it is the signed artist model, just unusual as Jim says.

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## Capt. E

> Alex: I am not sure what your question is. That one currently on eBay is an Artist model with 4 points. I was just questioning the finish color.


I wouldn't try to determine anything about the color from an Ebay ad. There are so many factors that can make it look different than it does in person including the color adjustments, gamma settings etc, on your particular computer screen. I would expect it to look somewhat different in person than on the ad.

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## ajr

> Alex: I am not sure what your question is. That one currently on eBay is an Artist model with 4 points. I was just questioning the finish color.


Jim,

I was responding to your earlier post on this one where you said:
"I believe that that is the professional model. I have an Artist (4point) and an Amateur (no points)"

I was a bit confused because I thought mine with 2 points was the Professional and the 4 point was the Artist. Mine doesn't have a label unfortunately, so no means of identification other than any info from those much more qualified than me.

I was just trying to clarify and didn't want to continue believing what I have been if I was under a misapprehension. 

Thanks and all the best

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## Jim Garber

> This looks pretty sweet.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Baco...item35bec9a67c





> I believe that that is the professional model. I have an Artist (4point) and an Amateur (no points).


Alex: bear in mind that this was a thread that started last August. We were talking about a 2 point Professional (linked above) and pictures below.

I revived this thread in order to talk about the faded (I think) Artist 4 point currently on eBay and linked above on my post.

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## Jim Garber

> I wouldn't try to determine anything about the color from an Ebay ad. There are so many factors that can make it look different than it does in person including the color adjustments, gamma settings etc, on your particular computer screen. I would expect it to look somewhat different in person than on the ad.


Sure, somewhat different, but not radically so. That one looks very different with very little variation on the top. I even tried to adjust it in Photoshop and it looks pretty close to correct exposure showing the right details as-is. I tried darkening overall and it looks, well, dark. Either this was sitting in bright sun for years or was a custom factory finish -- maybe it was for someone to match their Gibson pumpkin - or else it was an old refinish.

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## ajr

> Alex: bear in mind that this was a thread that started last August. We were talking about a 2 point Professional (linked above) and pictures below.
> 
> I revived this thread in order to talk about the faded (I think) Artist 4 point currently on eBay and linked above on my post.


Sorry about that Jim. Now it makes a bit more sense. That one in the case looks just like mine. 

Thanks and once again sorry for that.

All the best

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## Jim Garber

No problem. I often get confused when people resurrect an old thread.

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## Capt. E

I once owned a Bacon "Amateur" with a serial number under 1000 that I sold to David Grisman (it is still my avatar) which stimulated me to research Bacon's rather convoluted history. I understand the quality went from Amateur to Professional to Artist. The Artist for sale right now on ebay has a pretty high serial number as far as Bacon's go. I suppose it could have been made in the 1930's, but not sure anyone has locked down the Bacon history in regards to serial numbers. Still seems to be an instrument made before the company ran into hard times and sold. Nice looking machine in original case etc.  Regardless of the date, it is a very rare instrument. The Amateur is heavily built and is pretty much a collector's rather than player's instrument. The Professional and Artist are another story. My understanding is they are equal to the Lyon and Healy carved top models. It will be interesting to see what price it sells for.

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## Jim Garber

I actually like my Bacon Artist a lot and it is built at that same level as the L&H carved series. I always felt that the tone was somewhat between a good oval Gibson and an L&H.

Bacon and B&D are convoluted. I am actually not even sure which is what tho I know from the banjos that up until early 1920s Bacon banjos existed and B&D was later 1920s into 1930s. Later in the 1930s B&D banjos were made by Gretsch and guitars by Regal.

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## manjitsu

I've owned a Bacon Artist and a Bacon Professional (two point) in the past, both of which had a gorgeous dark sunburst finish in the same style as Jim's. When I zoom in and look at the pictures on the ebay instrument, it certainly looks like a later refinish to my eyes. Shame it's missing the tailpiece, too - the original tailpiece is a thing of beauty, right up there with the L&H design!

-Chris

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## Darryl Wolfe

Woops...looks like I got confused too.... :Grin:

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## Jim Garber

So, the off-color Bacon went for $1,775. That is pretty respectable IMHO.

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## Jim Garber

> Shame it's missing the tailpiece, too - the original tailpiece is a thing of beauty, right up there with the L&H design!


Yes!!

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## Capt. E

Went for $1775...top refinished!?  What might it have gone for with the tailpiece cover and original finish?

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## ajr

It's Back!

Got an email this morning to say that The Artist has been relisted.

From the new eBay ad:    THE ORIGINAL BUYER COULDN'T GO THROUGH WITH THE TRANSACTION. It's back!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....tchlink:top:en

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## Russ Donahue

And now its gone?

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## vegas

> And now its gone?


I'm wondering why this one ended up in a pawn shop? I know it's possible, but for an instrument of this quality, not the usual course of things.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

I saw it today also and was thinking about dropping by the pawn shop to check it out.  Interesting that it's gone so quickly.. probably snatched up by one of the bidders from the last go around?

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## Jim Garber

> I'm wondering why this one ended up in a pawn shop? I know it's possible, but for an instrument of this quality, not the usual course of things.


Don't you watch Pawn Stars? They have had a few quality instruments there. I bought a Vinaccia mandolin from Good Will and my best Gibson guitar at a flea market.

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## vegas

> Don't you watch Pawn Stars? They have had a few quality instruments there. I bought a Vinaccia mandolin from Good Will and my best Gibson guitar at a flea market.


I LIVE in the town with the Pawn Stars shop. I went there on a regular basis prior to the show which changed everything. It was once a good shop. Now it's just another tourist attraction. Every single show is scripted and contrived. Tourists line up to visit the place now and there is a velvet rope with security to supervise. Drunks stumble back and forth on Las Vegas Blvd to visit and they now make something like $15K a month just selling T-shirts.

Occasionally, good deals can be had at pawn shops or flea markets which is why I sometimes visit them but better instruments usually end up in the hands of knowledgeable dealers of musical instruments. The uncharacteristic finish on this Bacon and all the drama with the prior auction winner "not completing the transaction" make me question what is going on here. I suspect this instrument has serious issues.

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## Jim Garber

I used to live in Brooklyn in the bad old days when it wasn't as cool as it is now. Some of my friends had their nice instruments ripped off and there were always a few pawn shops they ended up in. 

BTW I did hear from the guy who won that Bacon and you are correct that it had some real issues incuding structural ones that made him question whether it was worth it and he realized that he paid way too much for it to be a wallhanger.

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## bmac

Good deals can be had a pawn shops but the dealer has the same access to information that you do...  So normally he offers stuff at pretty close to (used) retail value. of course it is always possible for a dealer not to do his research and sell something below value. I guess that is what we all are looking for. I enjoy working on old wrecks so instruments in damaged condition get me interested because those looking for perfect have already lost interest.

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## vegas

> I used to live in Brooklyn in the bad old days when it wasn't as cool as it is now. Some of my friends had their nice instruments ripped off and there were always a few pawn shops they ended up in. 
> 
> BTW I did hear from the guy who won that Bacon and you are correct that it had some real issues incuding structural ones that made him question whether it was worth it and he realized that he paid way too much for it to be a wallhanger.


I'm always a little suspicious of those stories about how wonderful Brooklyn is these days. It's not like drugs suddenly became uncool. I never lived there myself but had friends over the years who grew up there and watched the changes. It really was at the center of the "melting pot" for so many newly arriving immigrants going all the way back to the beginning but when crack hit, people tell me it turned into a war zone. That's pretty much the story in many inner cities.

Thank you for letting me know the story on the Bacon. My experience is the scores in pawn shops are few and far between these days with respect to high end most things. I have the Eastman copy of this model and it is a wonderful instrument to play.

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## vegas

> Good deals can be had a pawn shops but the dealer has the same access to information that you do...  So normally he offers stuff at pretty close to (used) retail value. of course it is always possible for a dealer not to do his research and sell something below value. I guess that is what we all are looking for. I enjoy working on old wrecks so instruments in damaged condition get me interested because those looking for perfect have already lost interest.


A good rule of thumb used to be whatever they had, they paid 10 cents on the dollar for so you had some idea of what they had into it and of course the longer it sits on a shelf, the more motivated they become to move it. One of the shops here even has price tags which indicate what the price will be in the future if it doesn't move by a certain deadline. Maybe that's the industry standard these days.

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## CanadianBacon

I'm having our 1921 Bacon Artist repaired but I'm missing the tail piece. It was my Grandfather's instrument and somewhere along the way, the original was replaced with a non original. Do you know if there is any chance of finding one? We're spending a fair amount of money fixing it but this instrument has a huge sentimental value to the family and it would be awesome to get it back as close to original as possible.

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## Jim Garber

Nice alias, CanadianBacon! Good luck on finding that. Lyon & Healy tailpiece covers are quite hard to find but Bacon mandolins are even rarer. Most of the tp covers are on the original instruments and unless you can find one in poor condition with the tp cover. You never know tho -- one may turn up. There is always a chance. 

I have an amateur model but it does not have the ornate tp cover. I have a catalog page on this thread showing a professional model and that one does not have the cover either. So you can see how truly rare this might be. Perhaps you could have a metal artisan recreate one for you?

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## CanadianBacon

The place doing the repairs said the same thing, may have to have one made. Oh well, I'll keep my eyes peeled as well, never know! Thanks for the help

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## Jim Garber

Sorry, I meant to link to *this thread* for the catalog picture as well as one of the tailpiece on my Bacon. BTW if you need a larger pic to copy the tailpiece I can post or send it.

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## Marty Jacobson

> The place doing the repairs said the same thing, may have to have one made. Oh well, I'll keep my eyes peeled as well, never know! Thanks for the help


Having one made to exactly duplicate the original will be prohibitively expensive. One could be machined with the details in the right place by a good CNC-equipped metal shop, though.

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## bluesmandolinman

> I'm having our 1921 Bacon Artist repaired but I'm missing the tail piece. It was my Grandfather's instrument and somewhere along the way, the original was replaced with a non original. Do you know if there is any chance of finding one? We're spending a fair amount of money fixing it but this instrument has a huge sentimental value to the family and it would be awesome to get it back as close to original as possible.



I do have a Bacon Artist tailpiece cover which I would consider selling for the right price. These are extremely rare so don´t expect it to be cheap.
If you are interested send me a PM ...

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## Jim Garber

> I do have a Bacon Artist tailpiece cover which I would consider selling for the right price.


Yikes, Rene! Did you have a Bacon that imploded or just came across the tp cover?

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## bluesmandolinman

> Yikes, Rene! Did you have a Bacon that imploded or just came across the tp cover?


Hey Jim, no imploded Artist... that would be horror !

No the tailpiece cover came on a Mandolin Banjo. Was kind of overdressed on that MB so I put it aside and put a clamshell tp on it. Looks better to me.

Will take photos of the Artist TP at the weekend and place it here. It´s a beauty in EXC+++ condition.

Cheers, René

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## Jim Garber

That is the way I got my L&H tp for my first one. Ebay seller had a Martin 2-15 with an L&H tp cover. I bought that mandolin, replaced the tp cover with the proper scallop one and sold the mandolin for a little more than what I paid. I was lucky there.

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## bluesmandolinman

here it is, the tp is in unusual good condition as is the mandolinbanjo with ohsc, looks unplayed , 

looks almost like new nice shiny plating ( if you see anything else it´s a reflection when taking the photo )

this is in the same league as the L&H tailpieces but much rarer !

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## CanadianBacon

That's the one.

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## CanadianBacon

I just heard choirs singing and a collective gasp...

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## Marty Jacobson

No, that was your wallet crying... :-)

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Dobe, 

Jim Garber

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## Gibson John

Does anyone know what years Bacon produced their three mandolin models? 
Also certain Bacon mandolins have a label with a serial number & the signature of William Place, Jr. on it, did he sign all models or just certain ones or certain years?  Did all Bacon mandolins have a labels?
If you have a Bacon mandolin or know someone who might be interested in selling one please post it.

Thanks,
John

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## Jim Garber

Most I have seen have been labelled 1921. I am not 100% sure but I know the Pro and the Artist models had labels signed by Place. I am not so sure about the Amateur. The one I have does not have any label but I am not sure if it never did.

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## Gibson John

Jim,

Thanks, a while ago I was looking at a Bacon Professional model that I didn't purchase but it didn't have a label or serial number.  Maybe it was produced after 1921??
I'm looking to purchase either a Professional or Artist model & trying to locate as much information on Bacon as possible.
If anyone has any type of info on the Bacon please post it.

John

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## pheffernan

A Professional model just turned up at Elderly: http://elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-6486.htm

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## Jim Garber

Hmmmm.... missing some important parts, like case, brace, pickguard and bridge... At least it has the tailpiece cover. I wish they would post some photos.




> VG-EC, dark natural finish with some light overspray and finish touch up, unique 2-point body, white-bound body and fingerboard, spruce top (one brace missing but top seems fine), birch back and sides, mahogany neck, 22 fret ebony fingerboard with dot inlays, Bacon logo on headstock, 4-on-a-plate tuners with white plastic buttons, non-original pickguard, fancy tailpiece cover reads "The Bacon", label signed by William Place Jr., 1-3/16" nut, ~13-7/8" scale, very rare model with a good sound, on consignment, no case (SN:182)

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## pheffernan

> Hmmmm.... missing some important parts, like case, brace, pickguard and bridge... At least it has the tailpiece cover. I wish they would post some photos.


The photos are now posted. Pretty back: http://elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-6486.htm

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## Jim Garber

I just received a 1922-23 catalog from Sherman, Clay & Co. from San Francisco and., lo and behold there is the first catalog photo I have seen (at least that I can remember) of a Bacon Artist. It looks tho that the catalog photo does not have the fancy tailpiece cover, for some reason -- just an engraved clamshell.

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## mrmando

> Most I have seen have been labelled 1921. I am not 100% sure but I know the Pro and the Artist models had labels signed by Place. I am not so sure about the Amateur. The one I have does not have any label but I am not sure if it never did.


Just got in an Amateur, #156 -- the label does indeed have the Place signature.

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## Jim Garber

Thanks, Martin! How is the neck on your amateur?

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## Petrus

Dang. I was thinking of something totally different.  :Grin: 

Maybe this little guitar could be converted without putting too much tension on the neck.

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## mrmando

Wow! I bet that guitar really cooks!

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