# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Tuning a mandola to gdae like a mandolin

## wmferg

Folks,

Quick queestion. I just bought a mandola and would like to tune it like my mandolin in GDAE. Question is, do I go up or down from the standard mandola tuning of CGDA&gt; I tried going up first and snapped two of the G strings trying to get them up to D...so I assume I must go down, but wanted top check. I am new to this and not sure is there are some "tricks or tips" that I should be using......anybody?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

----------


## allenhopkins

I think what you really want is an octave mandolin, tuned GDAE an octave below the standard mandolin. The mandola is tuned CGDA, as you state. You can put mandolin strings on it and tune it like a mandolin, but what's the use? You just get a large mandolin with a stiffer top that's playing in a register for which it wasn't designed. It probably won't sound all that much different from your mandolin. If you put heavier strings on it, and tune it an octave below your mandolin (GDAE), you'll get a small-bodied octave mandolin that probably won't sound so special, either. Don't know what type of instrument you bought, but it will probably give you the most satisfaction if you string it in the range for which it was designed. You do have to do a lot of transposition to apply what you know of the mandolin, to the mandola, but once you get the hang of it, it's a great instrument in its own CGDA tuning.

----------


## kudzugypsy

it's already tuned just like your mandolin - just with the low C
you have already found out that you cant just tune the strings up to pitch, they arent designed for that, and will break and if you go an octave lower, it will probably sound like a gourd. you *could* tune it up a whole step and then use a capo on the 2nd or 3rd fret, but i dont see the use of going thru that trouble
not really that hard to transpose, as allen said.
try it!

----------


## tiltman

or if you capo the second fret the upper three strings will be DAE but an octave below the mandolin.
Kirk

----------


## EdSherry

If you want to tune a mandola UP to normal mandolin GDAE, you need lighter strings than even a normal mandolin set (far less a mandola set), because of the longer scale length on the mandola relative to the mandolin. #(The top E string would probably be an .008 or .009.)

If you want to tune a mandola DOWN to (low) GDAE (like an octave mandolin), you will need significantly heavier gauges, again because the mandola scale length is much shorter than most octave mandolins.

I echo the suggestion to keep it at CGDA. #That's what they're made for.

----------


## DLester

I realize that this is an old thread but I'm facing the same situation.  What I'm getting is a European made mandola tuned GDAE, which from what I have read, is pretty standard for European instruments.  The instrument has a ~400mm scale length.  Now I can see the point that a mandola that is designed to play with a CGDA tuning should probably stay that way but the instrument that I have on order is built for the GDAE tuning so doesn't that make a difference?  Also isn't saying that mandolas are tuned either CGAE _or_ GDAE very inaccurate?  I've run into more tunings than that just doing research on the web.

Also isn't one of the issues between a tenor tuned mandola and an octave mandola not just tone but ease of playing which might to to a shorter scale length?  From what I've read the tone issue isn't a settled thing.  I've read comments both ways as to the tonal quality of the two instruments.  To me there seems to be a trade-off between the two.

----------


## f5loar

If I remember correctly Peter Rowan when he was playing his 1924 H5 Loar Mandola (since stolen) he tuned it to regular mandolin tuning.  Anybody remember him doing this?

----------


## mandroid

I like the voice of my Mandola for its own sake  as it's 25%  not a mandolin.. 
 I play the mandolin for that voice..

----------


## jesserules

> I realize that this is an old thread but I'm facing the same situation.  What I'm getting is a European made mandola tuned GDAE, which from what I have read, is pretty standard for European instruments.  The instrument has a ~400mm scale length.  Now I can see the point that a mandola that is designed to play with a CGDA tuning should probably stay that way but the instrument that I have on order is built for the GDAE tuning so doesn't that make a difference?  Also isn't saying that mandolas are tuned either CGAE _or_ GDAE very inaccurate?  I've run into more tunings than that just doing research on the web.
> 
> Also isn't one of the issues between a tenor tuned mandola and an octave mandola not just tone but ease of playing which might to to a shorter scale length?  From what I've read the tone issue isn't a settled thing.  I've read comments both ways as to the tonal quality of the two instruments.  To me there seems to be a trade-off between the two.


In Europe the word mandola is used to denote what we call an octave mandolin - that is, an instrument tuned GDAE one octave below a mandolin.

In the US, the word mandola is used to denote the mandolin equivalent of a viola - that is, an instrument tuned CGDA (the bottom three strings of standard mandolin tuning plus the C below that G).

----------


## CHASAX

Play music written for the tenor banjo or learn the bass clef and play cello music.

----------


## Jim Yates

Jesserules is right about the word "mandola".  I've also seen it called "octave mandola" in Britain.

In North America, The mandolin and violin are tuned GDAE,  the mandola and viola are tuned CGDA, The violin-cello and the mando-cello are tuned CGDA, an octave below the mandola/viola and the mando-bass and double bass are tuned EADG.  I have listed the strings from low to high.

Do mando-cellos exist in Europe?  What do they call an instrument tuned CGDA in Europe?

----------


## Petrus

I've got the reverse situation: An S.S. Stewart bowlback mandolin, but I only had J-67 nickel strings which are somewhat too heavy for an old bowlback tension-wise, so I detuned it to CGDA and it actually sounds pretty good.  It creates an onboard quasi-reverb and makes for easy vibrato.

Not sure about the original mandola problem postulated in the OP (eight years ago!) but my intuition is that it's always safer to tune lower rather than higher. Worst case, it'll sound too floppy and you can try a different gauge. If you tune up, you'll break strings regularly which is bad enough but worst case is doing damage to a vintage instrument.  So I would always make an effort to find a gauge that can take detuning without going totally spaghetti.

It can sometimes pay off to experiment with different instruments' strings too although they may require modification for loop-end versus ball-end.

----------


## David L

Thomastik-Infeld sells "Octave Mandola" (American Mando-cello) strings. They are flatwounds. I use Thomastik flatwounds on my mandolin (1906 Gibson F2), mandola (1927 Gibson H2), and mando-cello (1908 Gibson K2). I love the sound, no finger noise, and they last WAY longer than other strings.

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

Use mandolin strings and tune it up to DDAAEEBB - I've found that quite pleasant.

----------


## Petrus

Not to confuse things too much, but another suggestion if anyone is into experimentation is putting on an octave course or even two. These generally work better on the low strings, specifically the G and D.  I.e. gG-dD-AA-EE.

----------


## bratsche

> Thomastik-Infeld sells "Octave Mandola" (American Mando-cello) strings. They are flatwounds. I use Thomastik flatwounds on my mandolin (1906 Gibson F2), mandola (1927 Gibson H2), and mando-cello (1908 Gibson K2). I love the sound, no finger noise, and they last WAY longer than other strings.


If you're talking about the 174 set, I think they're intended for GDAE tuning (American octave mandolin, or octave mandola in Europe), but it's interesting that they work on your mandocello (tuned CGDA, I presume), if those are the ones you're using.  I'm curious to know if they are?  And if so, what's the scale on your mandocello?

bratsche

----------


## trevor

I believe the confusion stems from the use of the term mandola for an instrument tuned GDAE in German orchestral music, I don't know the scale length, someone please correct me if I am wrong. As others have said in the UK folk instrument world (flat top) its very confusing, octave mandola, tenor mandola or mandola can mean many things...

When I first started out I built up a chart with names, scale length and tuning..

----------


## DavidKOS

> In Europe the word mandola is used to denote what we call an octave mandolin - that is, an instrument tuned GDAE one octave below a mandolin.
> 
> In the US, the word mandola is used to denote the mandolin equivalent of a viola - that is, an instrument tuned CGDA (the bottom three strings of standard mandolin tuning plus the C below that G).


I think the Europeans call it "tenor mandola" since they do use the CGDA amndola too.

----------


## jimmy powells

I have a scroll model H5 style mandola (scale length as per Gibson approx 400mm) and today strung it up as an octave mandolin one poctave BELOW mandolin) using the D'Addario heavy guage mandolin strings 11.5  16  26  and 41. I discarded the 11.15s and put the 16s guage as 1st  26 guage as 2nds  41 guage as thirds and put on 58s as bottom G although I reckon they'd take 60 guage.. It works and works well but we just did this as an experiment as the mandola wasn't getting used as a mandola and it's a great instrument (Classic name on headstock as I had some made in China for me).

So if anyone wonders on string guages then this works on this scale length.

Jimmy Powells
UK

----------


## mandroid

single 60 is the low (8va)G on my P5  pentaula Electric 5 string   GDAEB   :Mandosmiley: 

Wonder what  the Best Flat wound substitute set would be   it's a 15" scale ..

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

You don't mention the scale length of the Mandola.  The Mandola range is usually 15" (Vega), 16" (Gibson), 17" (Weber), 18" (McDonald).  The shorter scale lengths can be tuned to mandolin with lighter strings, the longer scale lengths would tune to Octave Mandolin with heavier strings...

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

@Mandroid, I have TI Starks on my Vega 5 course with .009 from a GHS Ultralite set as the B pair.

----------


## John Flynn

I have done this kind of thing before and I have also accidentally ruined a cheap mandola by getting string tensions wrong. I can tell you that hearing a neck block crack in the middle of the night will turn your stomach.

Find a string tension calculator (there are multiple ones online), or you can calculate it yourself with formulas available online. Find the string tension you have now at CGDA and make sure it matches what the string package says, so you know your calculating it right. Then input the notes for GDAE and see what gauges you need. Then order those gauges as single strings. This solution will not be perfect, but it will work and you will not hurt your instrument. Then, after you've  played it a while, you might realize you prefer a little heavier strings here, or lighter strings there.

Alternatively, there are some string companies you can call that will put sets together for you to the spec you give them. I think GHS is one. But please, don't guess at it!

----------


## Bill Snyder

> You don't mention the scale length of the Mandola.  The Mandola range is usually 15" (Vega), 16" (Gibson), 17" (Weber), 18" (McDonald).  The shorter scale lengths can be tuned to mandolin with lighter strings, the longer scale lengths would tune to Octave Mandolin with heavier strings...


Eddie, he says it is 400mm (approx. 15 3/4").

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

Well since it's a 2006 thread he must have got it sorted by now...

----------


## k0k0peli

I'm currently in the process of restringing and re-purposing various instruments. These are tools I am finding VERY useful:

    # Micrometer, to measure the current string gauges
    # Ruler, to measure the scale length (nut to bridge)
    # Knowing what pitch the stings are actually tuned to
    # https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_string.htm to find the current tension
    # http://stringtensionpro.com/ to calculate string sets

I'm restringing old axes for the first time in too long. I don't have notes about the strings, so I use the micrometer. I use digital tuners and a frequency app on my tablet to measure the pitch, but a pitchpipe or tuning fork would work too. I enter the length and note data in the wahiduddin.net site and plug in a beginning guess about tension, then punch CALC and fiddle with the tension input until the reported diameter matches reality -- this is like calculating a square root by hand, iteratively. The calculator reports the tension, which is what I want. It might be in the neighborhood of 25 pounds on a 14-inch scale mandolin. The 21.5-inch scale Cümbüs I'm working on takes about 20 pounds per string.

Now I jump over to D'Addario's stringtensionpro.com calculator and tell it the instrument type, scale length, tuning, and string properties. It eventually displays a screen suggesting string diameters and tensions. I play with those until I get some usable results: the right tensions and appropriate gauges. Voila! A custom string set!

    Hey, I can get my Cümbüs down to C2 with a 0.072-inch wound string! Or I can dial-down the tension a couple pounds and hit D2 with a 0.060-inch string, or so the screen tells me. Or I can go to E2 with a 0.054-inch string -- which is what is on the Cümbüs now. Yes, the calculations matched my current reality, like predicting the past. I'm reassured that the other suggested strings won't wreck the axe.

    The parameters I work with there are 1) tension (nope, don't wanna break or warp the instrument), 2) the tuning I want, and 3) available or on-hand strings. My nearest string supplier is 40 minutes away on mountain roads so I have to plan things out a bit. I keep lots of strings on hand for my guitars, banjos, ukes, mandos, dulcimers, etc. Life would be easier if the music store were closer. But I'd probably go broke then.  :Laughing:

----------

Petrus

----------


## GraBro

Hi everyone. I'm a guitarist who lives in Sydney, Australia and new to this forum. Occasionally when playing a theatre show or studio call I've been required to play mandolin and have bought a Fender one and tuned to DGBE so I can read the music.

For sometime I've pondered the idea of buying a mandola and tuning it to standard mandolin tuning as I believe it would be more comfortable for me to play the longer scale.

I've read some of the responses in this forum regarding string gauge. As the G, D & A strings of both the mandola and mandolin are of the same pitch, I'm wondering if just removing the mandola C string, moving the G, D & A strings down one course and adding an E string of suitable gauge would be a viable option.

Any thoughts on that idea?

----------


## GraBro

Hi everyone. I'm a guitarist who lives in Sydney, Australia and new to this forum. Occasionally when playing a theatre show or studio call I've been required to play mandolin and have bought a Fender one and tuned to DGBE so I can read the music.

For sometime I've pondered the idea of buying a mandola and tuning it to standard mandolin tuning as I believe it would be more comfortable for me to play the longer scale.

I've read some of the responses in this forum regarding string gauge. As the G, D & A strings of both the mandola and mandolin are of the same pitch, I'm wondering if just removing the mandola C string, moving the G, D & A strings down one course and adding an E string of suitable gauge would be a viable option.

Any thoughts on that idea?

----------


## trevor

Depending on the scale length of the mandola you may find that you need a very thin gauge E, so thin that it breaks easily and doesn't sound good.

----------


## Jim Garber

Boy, this thread is a real patchwork of elderly posts! Why not tune your mandola to what we call the Chicago tuning, like you have on your mandolin? I think you should be able to use your std Mandola strings. Is there a reason you want to tune to fifths? The Mandola will prob sound better than the mandolin in that tuning.

----------


## Explorer

> For sometime I've pondered the idea of buying a mandola and tuning it to standard mandolin tuning as I believe it would be more comfortable for me to play the longer scale.
> 
> I've read some of the responses in this forum regarding string gauge. As the G, D & A strings of both the mandola and mandolin are of the same pitch, I'm wondering if just removing the mandola C string, moving the G, D & A strings down one course and adding an E string of suitable gauge would be a viable option.
> 
> Any thoughts on that idea?


You may or may not know this, but a string on a guitar with a 25.5" scale length will break when tuned up to around G#4. If the string is thinner, it's weaker. If the string is thicker, it's stronger, but requires more tension to get to G#4. G#4 is the pitch where those factors converge.

So, if all strings break around G#4 at 25.5", then they would break at G#5 with a scale length of 12.25".

Then, lowering the pitch by half steps as you add frets, a string would break at F at 15".

So your maximum best scale length to get to a mandolin's E5 without constant breakage would be 15".

There's someone on the Cafe who has commented about his custom built 10-string mandolin/mandola combo, and that the scale length, which isn't much longer, results in the top course breaking quite a bit. 

However, if you decide to go this course and disagree with the physics, be sure to keep us up to date on how things are going.

----------


## mandroid

I'd say Octave, 8va, down, is where you have to go ..  

or learn to love CGDA..    D chord fingering is your new G chord..

----------


## Mandoplumb

As long has it's tuned in fifths transposing would just be moving one string in most cases and the relative position would be the same in all cases wouldn't it. I don't see any advantage to tuning it up a fifth and a lot of disadvantages.

----------

