# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  Siminoff's Straight Up Strings

## Jim Garber

I just saw these listed on *Roger's site* as well as in the classified. I am not quite so sure what his description means or how he controls the downward pressure and what the theory is for doing this. Some of you physics and acoustics majors might chime in. I have a feeling that this could be yet another Blue Chip-style thread.

Also... Roger doesn't tell us what the composition of these strings are. The price for a single pack is not on that page but if you put it into the cart it comes up as $8.95.




> Straight Up Strings is an exciting new development in mandolin string technology that features compensated download pressures for the strings that rest on the saddle near the post (E and G) compared to those that rest in the middle of the saddle (A and D) on conventional two-post adjustable bridges. Balanced lateral loading provides excellent string-to-string balance, clarity, and sustain. Wound strings feature phosphor bronze wrap wire. The ideal solution for a balanced-sounding mandolin. Gauges are: E . 0115˝, A .016˝, D .024˝, G .039˝. Down pressures: E 5.5 lbs., A4 lbs., D 4 lbs., and G 6.5 lbs. Currently available in "medium" with "light" and "heavy" gauged sets to follow in near future.

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gtani7

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## Stok

Interesting, thanks for pointing these out. I think I'll be checking them out. I'm sort of a string freak, I love trying out different strings and hearing the major differences they have to offer. 

I have to say I found any strings that sound better than exp77s though so they're gonna have to be pretty good to become my main strings.

Thanks for letting us know about the price too

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## Bertram Henze

This is an attempt to put in clearer words what is happening here:
The gauges of the outer courses E and G are slightly heavier than they'd be compared to the inner course gauges in a normal set of strings. Thus, the outer strings have a higher tension, yielding a higher down pressure at the saddle than the inner strings.

Two things remain unclear to me: what problem this is supposed to solve, and how one can quote explicit down pressure values in lbs without knowing the exact scale length and the string angle at the saddle.

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Hendrik Ahrend, 

Jim Garber, 

Nevin

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## JeffJones

Not sure if you guys saw this thread over in the News Forum but there is quite a bit more information here:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...58#post1294558

and in the linked article here:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/pub...s_001640.shtml

Bertram, I think both your questions are covered, at least in part, in the article.

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Alan Lackey, 

gtani7, 

Jim Garber

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## Jim Garber

Thanks, Jeff. I should have read that thread and the article. It makes a bunch more sense now.

I also read too quickly... he does say that these are phosphor bronze and now I do see the price on his site. I will prob order some to try for sure.

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## Bertram Henze

Yep Jeff, that clears it up considerably. What's more, I suddenly unterstand the weird shape of the violin bridge - 45 years after playing the violin, figure that...

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## Hendrik Ahrend

I've been observing and mostly admiring Roger's science since the days of Frets. But sometimes he loses me, and I dare say the emporer is naked in this case. He talks about "string-to-string balance, clarity, and sustain", which may or may not be desirable. But what if I had a mandolin with an outstanding e-string and all other strings average? Would the a-string all of a sudden sound just as great, as soon as I chose 0.011.5 for e and 0.016 for a? Or the other way around, what if my e-string was weak, lacking "clarity" and "sustain". Would the new Siminoff set do away with that or even touch the issue? 
I actually fooled around with various gauges of e and a-strings, and I finally settled with 0.011 and 0.016, feeling that not only the tension is quite similar, but also the "timbre". (And my mando is a pretty regular F5 BTW.) 
Nothing is as practical as a good theory.

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## DHopkins

On a scale of 1 to 10, I would give a 6 to my understanding of Roger's article.  I read it twice and that helped. The parts that I understood sort of made sense.  

I "pre-ordered" some.  It's worth a try.  I pretty happy with my J74s, though.

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## Phil Goodson

I just re-read the interview.
I'd love to see the data and results that ended up with conclusions like:

"... For fixed-bridge guitars, the string-to-string *tensions should be* either very similar  or linear ...., or mapped in a somewhat parabolic curve...."

_I'd think that "similar" or "linear" or "parabolic" would be very different things_.   How does the data help us pick???  :Confused:

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## fscotte

I think the idea is that this may be similar to the floor joists in your home.  Some joists may be taking a lot of weight while one next to it may be barely touch the subfloor, thus having less weight on it.   The joist under more stress would "react" with greater energy versus the one with less energy.

I dunno though.  Perhaps having less tension on one string, like the A and D strings actually sounds better than more tension.  I think the end result is the same as trying a new set of strings, or a new pick - that tone is subjective and it may or may not sound better.

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## Amandalyn

I ordered a set and am anxious to try them. Will report back.

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## Bertram Henze

> I dunno though.  Perhaps having less tension on one string, like the A and D strings actually sounds better than more tension.  I think the end result is the same as trying a new set of strings, or a new pick - that tone is subjective and it may or may not sound better.


If I understand the article correctly, it hints at buying and combining single strings to optimize the load distribution being better than buying ready sets. So I guess everybody is being invited to make their own experimental sets. 
Since I was forced to use single strings from the beginning with my ball-end-tailpieced OM, that phase lies behind me, and it took quite some time. I also guess that Siminoff's set is a valid shortcut if you have the kind of mandolin and bridge it is optimized for.

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## HoGo

> I've been observing and mostly admiring Roger's science since the days of Frets. But sometimes he loses me, and I dare say the emporer is naked in this case.


Agree. I didn't want to be the first one to say that...
Not everything that "makes sense" is really true. I've been doing exact sciences for 15 years now and I know that physics of forces and vibrations can be very misleading to laymen. I've seen all kinds of "sound bouncing" etc. theories over the years that may sound logical to common folks but are pure BS otherwise.
Every mandolin is different and may require different combination of strings to please given player. So I guess Mr. Siminoff is offering solution to nonexistent problem. Or at least problem that exists on few mandolins he tested and with few players he tested...
If there were such huge problem with strings someone would shout it loud years ago. I know more than few players who buy single strings and made up their own sets of strings and more or less they either ended close to typical sets or they changed a string or two to solve some anomaly of their favorite instrument.
I'd love to hear Dave Cohen or other acoustics guys' opinion.

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choctaw61

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## wildpikr

Currently I use D'Addario J75's:
G .041
D .026
A .016
E .0115

Mr. Siminoff's Straight-Up Mediums:
G .039
D .024
A .016
E .0115

It's worth a try... :Coffee:

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## DougC

If anything Roger 'has got our number'. We love to try out strings at Mandolin Cafe. I have a lot of respect for him however. And if he thinks this is a good idea, I'm willing to listen. But all string 'sets' are designed to address a number of issues, including the tension issue.

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## Bertram Henze

> So I guess Mr. Siminoff is offering solution to nonexistent problem. Or at least problem that exists on few mandolins he tested and with few players he tested...


I'd not say nonexistent, but the effect will doubtless be a subtle one, nothing that knocks your socks off. I would probably not even hear it (I couldn't tell a Strad from any old cigar box, come to that), but that does not mean others can't hear it either. Let's wait for those double blind tests to commence.

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## ourgang

This is copied and pasted from his order page.....Are the +14.00 and +35.00 the shipping costs??  If so, I can afford the strings but not the shipping

Single Pak

Tri-Pak $22.95 (Save $3.90!) (+ $14.00)

Six-Pak $43.95 (Save $9.75!) (+ $35.00)

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## fatt-dad

I don't need to understand 100 percent of something that doesn't make sense.

f-d

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## Jim Garber

> This is copied and pasted from his order page.....Are the +14.00 and +35.00 the shipping costs??  If so, I can afford the strings but not the shipping
> 
> Single Pak
> 
> Tri-Pak $22.95 (Save $3.90!) (+ $14.00)
> 
> Six-Pak $43.95 (Save $9.75!) (+ $35.00)


The numbers following the plus sign are what you add to the single pack price of $8.95 to make a "pak". I think the shipping is around $8 on top of that.

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## mandotrout777

I just skimmed Roger's article, so I don't know if there is some new construction method for these strings or not. If not, then these should be similar to the GHS Bobby Osborne set. That set goes 0.011, 0.016, 0.024, 0.038. 

Also, back last winter I saw a youtube of Chris Thile talking about his string gauges. He uses the heavy treble strings from a J75 set and the medium gauge G and D from a J74 set. Kind of a similar concept, perhaps?

I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to criticize Roger's theory without trying it out first. But I don't expect I'd hear a big difference. Maybe Chris Thile would though. Who knows?

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## fscotte

I think it works for Thile, cause man, he sounds TERRIBLE when he's not using his custom string gauges...

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## Phil Goodson

> I think it works for Thile, cause man, he sounds TERRIBLE when he's not using his custom string gauges...


 :Wink:  :Whistling:

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## mandroid

...So G's have a bit thicker core wire, the steel part ,  and the winding wire can be thinner? 

 got core wire winding wire size  data? Gibson's are  .041", over all,  too ..
 how do they differ ?

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## siminoff

*Jim G:* Regarding the composition of our the strings, the material is  "mandolin wire" for both the plain string and hex cores, and phosphor bronze alloy for the wrap wire.

*Bertram H:* Thx for explanation. Only thing I can add is that our .016˝ has a different wrap/core than most other strings for a mandolin D string. And, we do report on the scale length and bridge height (expressed as "string break angle"), and as you suggest, both of these are critically important. Although loads can be calculated mathematically, we did actual measurements of all strings using a special fixture and a certified Dillon Force Gauge. All of the specifications and data can be found in our product bulletin which can be found at:  http://siminoff.net/cms/wp-content/u...up_strings.pdf 

*Henry E:* Yes, our goal is to provide a set of strings whose interaction with the bridge makes each string produce similar timbre. In the example you gave, having an A (or other) string be more prominent than its neighboring strings is not an ideal situation, which is probably what led you to decide on the .011˝ and .016˝ for your mandolin.

*Philiphool:* Thanks for picking up on the "similar" or "linear" or "parabolic" issue. I didn't go into more detail in that article because it was just a supporting note and not the theme of that article. Speaking about "tension" (the longitudinal load of the strings), based on the bridge design and construction, and based on the soundboard's design and construction - specifically the size, shape, composition, and location of the bridge plate, bracing, tone bars, and soundboard itself, some guitars lend themselves to string sets with similar tensions (i.e. each string within about 1 to 1.5 pounds of each other), or linear tensions (i.e. each string being about 1 to 1.5 pounds heavier than its neighbor either going up or down the string set), or a parabolic curve where the outer strings might have similar tension, and the next inner strings are slightly higher, and the two inner-most strings are slightly higher (or the reverse). (I'm currently consulting with a guitar company who is testing "similar" loads on one bracing design, and  "linear" loads on another for both the strings they will install on new guitars as well as for some of their private label strings in a future announcement.)

*Fscotte:* Interesting. I actually used the example of a trampoline the other day when speaking to someone about these new strings. I pointed to the difference between jumping in the center and near the frame of the trampoline, and suggested that a heavier person would need to jump near the frame and a lighter person near the center to reach the same height.

*HoGo:* Actually, this is a very real problem. You are right that each mandolin has its own particular signature that needs tailoring when selecting strings, but this is typically impractical. For the masses, the industry provides an array of light, medium, and heavy gauge strings (without clearly defining what fits in those categories). For those of us who use the Gibson-style adjustable two-footed bridge, we can't escape the fact that the outer pair of strings have a very different relationship with the soundboard than do the two pair that hang in the middle of the saddle. In 1982, we proved to an audience of the world's most prominent string manufacturers that string tension made a difference, and from that day on, calculating and reporting string loads became an industry standard.

*Wildpikr:* Thanks for showing the relative gauges. Please bear in mind that there are many ways to arrive at the same wound string gauges, i.e. different core to wrap ratios (see my response to @Mandroid below).

*Ourgang:* Good call. The "+ $14.00" refers to how much more the Tri-Pak is than the single string price. It's confusing, but something out of our control (our on-line store software calculates this automatically when we show something as an option). We've added some text above it to clarify. Thx!

*Mandroid:* Regarding core and wrap wire, there are several ways to prepare a wound string. For example, we can make the .026˝ as a .014˝ core (the steel center wire) with a .006˝ wrap wire (the phosphor bronze wire) - .014 + .006 + .006 = .026˝, or .016 + .005 + .005˝ = .026˝ and so on. Each of these will yield a .026˝ finished thickness but the tensions will be very different when the string is at pitch. Of course, there are only a small range of variations you can make before the string is unplayably too light or too heavy.

Best,
Roger

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Billgrass, 

bruce.b, 

carleshicks, 

choctaw61, 

Doug Heinold, 

hank, 

Randolph, 

Rick Schneider, 

Ryk Loske

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## Nick Triesch

OK,  I have been playing mandolin for a long time and I always thought that the D strings and the A strings sound  fine.   I have never noticed them lacking compared to the G and E strings.   In fact I remember years ago at a bluegrass club night there was this old guy with a Nuggett and he saw my new mandolin.  He told me to pick the D strings for him.  He said the way to tell how a good mandolin sounds is by picking the D strings.  And I think he is right.  On all the mandolins I have owned the D strings always sound the best to me.  They just pop out. So to me that kind of takes away from Mr Siminoff's idea.   I don't think I will pay $17.00 just to hear how they sound.  But good luck to Mr Siminoff.

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## Phil Goodson

I'm still somewhat confused about which strings are considered the "good" strings and which are the "underachievers" when we just use J74 strings or something similar.   Do the new strings improve the "underachievers" or mute the "good" strings to achieve the "balance" that seems to be the holy grail of string/bridge interaction?   What are the download pressures of each string of J74s (just to compare the most popular string)?

What are the parameters being measured to achieve "balance"?   Volume?  Some other measure??  Subjective human ear perceptions???

Can we use well defined language to understand the concepts and support the theory that the  new strings offer "improvement"?

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## Bob Bass

Roger-

Is it possible that there is a typo in the PDF link you provided in your post #24 in this thread where the gauge of the wound G appears to read .029" w. Is this meant to read .039" w in the bottom left of the page under specifications?

Thank you.

Bob

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## siminoff

Bob thanks for pointing out the error. Yes, we have egg on our chin - it was a typo and the _G_ string is a .039˝ (not .029˝) and it has already been fixed in the web site. (I had a few folks email and call this morning about it). THANKS! R

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## Michael Lewis

Hi folks, I am nearly recovered from the CBA Grass Valley Bluegrass Festival where I organize the Luthiers Pavilion.  Roger and his delightful crew were there offering mandolin centric parts and tools, and his new Straight Up strings which I have now tried.  I didn't measure anything, just put them on a few mandolins and can honestly say they are nice strings and produce an even volume and tone on the few instruments I installed them.  As previously noted they are in the same vane as the GHS A260 Bobby Osborne strings but with a bit more heft.

I read in FRETS those years ago the string comparisons, and was impressed by the GHS Bobby Osborne set with approximately 2# difference in tension across the neck, which is much less than most string sets.  These are probably not gonna blow your sox off but they are really very nice strings with an evenness you don't often get from other sets.

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carleshicks, 

hank, 

Tommcgtx

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## DHopkins

Mine have arrived and, coincidentally, I'm due for a string change.  I'll see what happens. I'm optimistic.

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## LongBlackVeil

> OK,  I have been playing mandolin for a long time and I always thought that the D strings and the A strings sound  fine.   I have never noticed them lacking compared to the G and E strings.   In fact I remember years ago at a bluegrass club night there was this old guy with a Nuggett and he saw my new mandolin.  He told me to pick the D strings for him.  He said the way to tell how a good mandolin sounds is by picking the D strings.  And I think he is right.  On all the mandolins I have owned the D strings always sound the best to me.  They just pop out. So to me that kind of takes away from Mr Siminoff's idea.   I don't think I will pay $17.00 just to hear how they sound.  But good luck to Mr Siminoff.


well your in luck, you only have to pay 8.95 to hear what they sound like

anyone got a set of these on yet?

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lloving

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## Perry Babasin

Yesterday I got an email that it shipped. I think it will come before the weekend!

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## JAK

If Michael Lewis likes them, that's good enough for me....

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## Jeff Hildreth

"They are probably not gonna blow your sox off but they are really very nice strings with an evenness you don't often get from other sets."

I do not see where he said "he liked them"


"you only have to pay 8.95 to hear what they sound like"

Plus shipping.


"Can we use well defined language to understand the concepts and support the theory that the new strings offer "improvement"? 

I second the motion.

Anxious to hear reports.

Since all of the tension and pressure , compression, force etc  of  the combines eight strings still bears on the two feet (and tailpiece and nut)...   I would like more of an explanation as to why a variance in the gauges of 2 pairs of strings matter for a "problem" that I have not, heretofore, seen voiced or experienced.

I  may be the odd man out because I prefer lower tension and low string height  as did Jethro Burns and others.).. and "bluegrass" is not my chosen music.. if that is a consideration.

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## LongBlackVeil

> "you only have to pay 8.95 to hear what they sound like"
> 
> Plus shipping


Ah your right, I'm stupid, Ha I was wondering why he said it costs so much.

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## JAK

OK then, what brand of strings do "knock our socks off?"

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## DHopkins

OK, I've given the strings a couple of weeks.  It's an ongoing test but I think I like them.  I'm not going into a lot of detail but they sound great and seem (maybe) a little easier to play than the EXP74s and J74s I've used in the past.  Having said that, I've also got to say there was nothing wrong with the D'Addario strings.  My only dilemma is, if it ain't broke, do I want to fix it?  

I'm gonna keep playing 'em for a while and see what happens.

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## Bertram Henze

> OK then, what brand of strings do "knock our socks off?"


There hasn't been any groundbreaking new paradigm shifts in decades. Nothing but tiny little steps nearer to an optimum that has been practically reached long ago.
I am still waiting for those WonderWound Strings that break the rigid relation of gauge/pitch/scale length/tension. For instance, short thick strings of these would sound like longer/thinner ones at the same pitch and tension. There would have to be a heavier, harder core material than steel - probably some nanotech titanium/plutonium alloy is the way to go... :Grin:

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## lloving

Ok...FWIW
I have a new set of Straight Up Strings on my Weber Yellowstone HT. My first impression was that on this instrument the sustain is improved. That impression must be tempered by the fact that they are replacing a set of Flat Tops. 
All other impressions I have are subtle but I generally like the strings on this instrument and plan to stay with them for a while.
I will be testing them on a Bighorn soon. More after that.

LL

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## Ryk Loske

Given the difference in the design of bridges on a Weber .... is this difference in string gauges necessary or warranted?  Roger?  Bruce?  Vern?

Thanks,

Ryk

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## dan in va

This idea may be destined for the same circular file as some other interesting ideas that haven't panned out....following in Lloyd Loar's footsteps.  While there may be some mandolins that sound alright with these gauges, it may be in spite of the theory than because of it.  Strings with more tension take more pick energy to drive, so heavier individual strings don't always result in more volume, while lighter individual gauge strings can be much louder on certain mandolins.  

For example, some mandolins may need heavier strings to balance out a louder D course, and a lighter string for a quieter G course.  i've put together such string sets as Roger, but with totally the opposite result.  So each mandolin is an individual.  For example, the gauges that balances my A5 are G .038 bright bronze, D .026 Flat Top, A .015 and E .011.  

There are so many other factors where the right strings can make a difference.  Among them are neck angle and top thickness.  Gibson made Equa strings for electric guitars (yes, electrics are another kettle of fish) back in the 1970's, which had pretty even string tension across the set, and they were very popular with the semi-pro crowd i knew then.  If an instrument has even tone and volume across all the strings, then a set with even tension is often good.  Others that are on the bright or dark side may respond well to sets with uneven tension.

At the end of the day, many mandolins are unique and have special string needs.  With all due respect, the Straight Up Strings might belong in the Vivi-Tone camp.

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## Doug Edwards

Just put them on yesterday. I didn't know what to think at first.  The G & D courses sounded different. After they settled in I thought they sounded fine. I really like the finer windings and the A & E courses sounded great.  We'll have see how the hold up.

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## wildpikr

I put them on last week and so far I like them.  Like Doug said, "We'll have to see how they hold up."

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## Amandalyn

Put mine on yesterday, they sound very even, have great sustain and feel good under the fingers. The G & D strings, being a slight lighter guage, than most medium sets, still have plenty of power, and I like the fact that they don't feel as big. Now, to see how they last. I would like to try them on my 2 other mandolins for comparision. Roger- I hope you make an octave set !

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## sgrexa

> Given the difference in the design of bridges on a Weber .... is this difference in string gauges necessary or warranted?  Roger?  Bruce?  Vern?
> 
> Thanks, Ryk


I am neither Bruce or Roger but the Brekke bridge didn't revolutionize string compensation but did address a few problems like the leaning you see on just about every two post adj. bridge. That personally drives me nuts and I am surprised that the Brekke isn't more popular for that reason alone. You still need to have the saddle properly compensated and placed for the strings you intend to use.  I have a couple different inserts for my original Brekke that I can swap out for different strings and the mandolin is pretty close to perfectly intontated which is important to me.

One "new" development in strings that I am curious about is the Ernie Ball Aluminum / Bronze strings. I have yet to try them on guitar and am curious to hear from others who have. It sounds to me that this would be an interesting sound for a mandolin, so if Mr. D'Addario or whoever is listening, please do some R&D for us mando fanatics! Thanks.

Sean

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## Jim Garber

Sean: why wouldn't Ernie Ball make mandolin sets of the aluminum bronze strings? From their promo video at AG site:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/News/A...Bronze-Strings

BTW take a look at the bridge that Bill James designed. It is meant to counteract that leaning over:

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## spufman

The Weber bridges also differ from most in the way the saddle is supported: the Original via wooden wedges and the Traditional with a metal beam. I think Ryk may have been getting at a diminished need for tension differences between the two inner and two outer courses, with Weber bridges.

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Ryk Loske

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## Bill Foss

I put a pair on a Heiden A model that already had a lot of sustain. It also was a very loud instrument that was on the bright side. The strings have a great evenness about them which is very nice for this mandolin. It also mellowed out some of the brightness without sacrificing any volume. So far it's thumbs up on these strings.

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## terzinator

Thought I'd revive this, rather than start up a new thread.

I've had these on for a few days now, and I do like these strings. I wouldn't say they're life-changing, but the tone is even and strong and clear. Best of all, so far, is that the finicky A course stays in tune! 

Not coated, but they're much smoother to fret/slide than a recent set of EXP's I had on.

Anyone else giving these a try?

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## Perry Babasin

Back when this thread was active I got a set and put them on my ff hole mandolin. Originally I bought one set, and just last week I ordered and received a three pack. I like them very much especially on my ff hole instrument, very even tone and feel across the strings and they are loud and play easy. I have been using J74s for 10 years and still love them but these are a great option, and he's practically a Northern California neighbor, ha,ha,ha.

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## SGraham

I've been playing a set now for a couple of weeks on my '99 Flatiron Festival. I've been using J75s for years. These Straight Up strings have wonderful clarity and sustain. I'll be ordering more.

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## lloving

I have had them on my Weber Yellowstone HT for a while.  They are now my string of choice. 
I have just installed a set of heavy gauge Straight Ups on my Weber Bighorne. I'll post my impressions after they settle in.

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## Stephen Cagle

You all have made we want to order some of these strings. Guess I'll order some and see what all the magic is about. Let me rephrase that, hear what all the magic is about. :Popcorn:

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## terzinator

Just heard that Elderly will be carrying them.

http://elderly.com/search/elderly?te...P+EVEN&x=0&y=0

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## TonyP

I finally got to install a set of SU heavies on my old war horse Newson f5 and I'm impressed. Impressed enough that I won't be putting it up for sale like I'd been planing. I'd been trying unsuccessfuly for years now to find the right combo of strings and pick to find that sweet spot for the mandolin that was my one and only for over 25yrs, but had somehow slipped out of favor.

I guess it's human nature to want this radical silver bullet that will transform when in this case it was really about just changing the overall balance. I had tried after years of only using J74's, then EXP74's, then EXP75's, then Bush Monels, back to 75's and finally Tomastik Stark. Seemed like the further I went the worse it got and was the worst with the Starks. I'm pretty sure old barbed wire would sound the same on this particular instrument. And every change I immediately knew I'd missed the mark but decided to hang in there to see if it was just new strings syndrome. But there would always be that niggler of "oh the A course is too light and buzzy" or one course sounded different as I brushed across all the strings or something. Not so with these. My old friend is back. I even tried something that I usually don't do and that's taking fresh strings to practice. Never had to tune after the initial tuneup. The old volume and warm mid's were back. And the thing this mandolin always used to do for me, sit in it's own sonic space with a band is back.

It's hard to get all gushy about even and balanced but it reminds me of when a headache is gone. I only know I feel better. And for the first time in a long time I don't feel like I've tossed my hard earned $$ into another experiment that's just going to the landfill.

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goose 2, 

hank, 

Paul Statman

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## terzinator

Awesome news, Tony. I'm still really liking them on my MT, as well.

I think I agree with you on the Thomastik Starks. That was an expensive failure, for sure!

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## Sevelos

Just my 2 cents: when comparing how the mandolin sounds with different strings, setups, etc., it's important to compare actual recordings. 
Some time ago I got a new mandolin and for several weeks I went back and forth raising and lowering the saddle, sometimes tearing strings (E) in the process, choosing between "cleaner sound and longer sustain" vs. "low action", and really couldn't decide. 
So finally, after breaking another string, I took the bridge all the way down and recorded how each string sounded when free, when played on the 5'th fret and on the 12'th fret. Then I raised the saddle way up and did the same recordings. 
I listened carefully, comparing each note, and... they sounded practically identical in both bridge heights. Finally the experiments ended! I took the saddle all the way down (and went to sleep).

BTW, couldn't hold myself and had to interject - Thomastiks are great flatwound strings which I use on all my mandolins. While people may prefer other brands, I wouldn't call Thomastiks "barbed wire"  :Wink:

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## TonyP

For what its worth and while I totally respect your viewpoint Sevelos I don't trust any electronic signal chain to reproduce what my ears hear directly. Room, mic, mic placement, pre amp, recorder, monitors...just too many variables.  I'm much lower tech when it comes to that. I use a wall to reflect back to me the direct sound that I can't hear from my playing position. 

I've learned it's the kiss 'o death with me when I get unsatisfied with something and I hunt the cure. And in the case of the Tomastiks it was a expensive experiment/fail. I guess I should have been more PC and just said they didn't work for my particular application. I let my disappointment get away from me, my bad.

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## Amandalyn

Just heard that Santa Cruz is making these types of strings for guitar with the same technology and influence from Siminoff. I've been very pleased with the Straight Ups on my mandolin, and would like to try the SC Guitar strings, but they're not cheap! $18. Set.

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## siminoff

Well, for you guitar players, all I can say is: "stay tuned!"

Roger

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## GTison

Michael Lewis: "new Straight Up strings which I have now tried. I didn't measure anything, just put them on a few mandolins and can honestly say they are nice strings and produce an even volume and tone..."    ...' won't knock your socks off..'

This is a good quote.
I've been using Gibson Monroes and J75s on my '02 Gibson Fern model.  I put my new Straight up strings on a few days ago.  They do have an even sound, I'm not used to that really.  I am used to my D string really singing out.  Not so on these strings.  They do feel easier on the fingers.   I was thinking that they might help the E string a bit.  But it is kinda like asking the sound man to 'turn me up', everyone ask for it until he turns the whole thing down and balances it out.  These strings are like the soundman, turned down and balanced out.  Good for some applications.  Maybe I'll like them better after another week.

 I'm going to leave them on for a gig next week but after that.  I expect to take them off and go back to what I had before.

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## sgarrity

I've got mediums and heavies here ready to try. Plan on putting the heavies on today. Will report back.

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## lloving

After a long stint with these strings installed on my Weber Yellowstone I am very impressed. They outlast most strings and retain their tone. Mine have begun to look a little crusty but they sound great. Replacing with more of the same.

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## billy_v

I like them a lot. I like the tone of phosphor bronze, and I've been playing those coated D'Addarios. I've always been wary of, and have had no luck with, "the next big thing in strings," except for Elixir acoustic guitar strings, love 'em. But this is Siminoff! Lucky for me, a used mandolin I bought had them installed, and it was love at first bark. They seem much smoother to play than the D'As, too. I'm sold.

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## billy_v

Hmm.  Just put a set on a friend's MD305, and it doesn't seem to like them so well. Seems to have had a better tone and response with the nameless 80/20s that'd been on it. May well just be a wrap alloy thing, tho. They'll probably sound better in a day or two. They're still fabulous on my F5.

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## George R. Lane

I just order a set of the mediums for my Weber Yellowstone. I emailed Roger to see if he thought the Weber traditional bridge would work with them. There is a brass bar solder to the posts and it fits into a groove in the bridge. He said it would make no difference. I will report back with my impressions in a week or two, once they settle in.

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## Mandoplumb

I put a set on my Flatiron about 4 months ago still love them. I alternate between this and a Dearstone so 4months is  about adveridge for me, and they are about to need changing, so no real change with longevity. The Dearstone likes steel strings so I matched string size as much as possible, ordering single strings and they sounded good on it.
   I had discussed, at some length, the logic of Siminoff's concerning the balance and referring to a fiddle bridge having no string going directly to the base, still don't see the connection but the strings sound more balanced on both my mandolins now. What really surprised me was that pesty A string. I had been putting on a heavier A that helped some but still wasn't right, with this set the A sounds better than it ever has and it is not heavier. If, as someone posted, you don't want balance, and I understand different things for different people, then this string is not for you. But if you are trying for a more balanced sound try Straight-Ups, I did and I'm glad. NFI

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## GTison

As to my above post, I may be WRONG.  I am probably comparing apples to oranges.  I usually use Gibson Monroes which may be  closer to the Straight Up Heavys.  I have Medium Straightupstrings.  It is understandable that these would not be as loud or comparable in many ways.  I think I must have been scared of the 17s on the A string or something.  I'll have to give them a second chance some time.

I wonder what the DOWN PRESSURE is on DAddario J75 strings or Monroes are? Daddario does list tension and it is a bit more (if I'm reading correctly.)  Seems Siminoff has done his research on these.

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## George R. Lane

I put the set of mediums on my Yellowstone last night and my first impression are the D string is quieter than the D string from my normal GHS A270's. Volume s not a priority with me as I play at home by myself. I will say they are very even tone wise across all the strings and the sustain is nice. I usually use a BC TAD 50 1R pick and I found the tone to sound slightly muted. I also tried a Primetone 1.4 large triangle and that did give is a little brighter sound. I also like the feel of my finger on these the wraps seem to be much smother than the GHS's. I will keep them on for 2 to 3 weeks and see if they change for the better or worse. I can always go back to the GHS's.

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## sgarrity

I've had the heavies on for 4 days now and I like them.  Like someone else mentioned, they're not earth shattering...just really good quality, playable, balanced strings.  The 17s on the A course kind of scared me but they're actually very playable.  The only thing that is very difficult is bending the strings.  Once these wear out I'll try a set of J-75's and see how they compare.

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## George R. Lane

Shaun,
Did you notice a difference between the mediums and heavies on volume? How did the D strings sound?

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## bbaker2050

> OK,  I have been playing mandolin for a long time and I always thought that the D strings and the A strings sound  fine.   I have never noticed them lacking compared to the G and E strings.   In fact I remember years ago at a bluegrass club night there was this old guy with a Nuggett and he saw my new mandolin.  He told me to pick the D strings for him.  He said the way to tell how a good mandolin sounds is by picking the D strings.  And I think he is right.  On all the mandolins I have owned the D strings always sound the best to me.  They just pop out. So to me that kind of takes away from Mr Siminoff's idea.   I don't think I will pay $17.00 just to hear how they sound.  But good luck to Mr Siminoff.


I too have always thought the D string sounded best on my mandolins.

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## George R. Lane

I have had the SUS on for about 2 weeks and they have their own sound, of which I neither hate or love. My only complaint is that they sound sort of blah, no life or soul to them. I have used GHS 270's and they were loud and had a driving presence. I will put a set of 270's back on. I will say they give each string equal clarity and no string overpowers another.

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## Drew Egerton

> I have had the SUS on for about 2 weeks and they have their own sound, of which I neither hate or love. My only complaint is that they sound sort of blah, no life or soul to them. I have used GHS 270's and they were loud and had a driving presence. I will put a set of 270's back on. I will say they give each string equal clarity and no string overpowers another.


That's interesting George, because I put a set of 270s on my Flatbush and felt the same way about them that you do about the SUS, just blah. I've been using various D'addarios for years and will probably go back for a while. May have to try some of these SUS though, but not sure about the price based on the comments here.

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## George R. Lane

Drew,
That is the one strange thing about mandolins, how one set of strings works on one mandolin will sound terrible on another. I guess we will continue on our string and pick journeys.

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## hank

Correct me if I'm wrong but we have choices with the Curt Mangan Irv Pearman set and the D'Addario EXP 74 CM set. Both these sets are similarly tensioned in an attempt to tweak the tonal balance of moving between string sets.  I think the Siminoff work is valid and a great contribution to our community with the new string set selections we are seeing.  Is their anyone that have tried these sets on the same instrument and can comment.  I bought a couple SUS med. sets but haven't tried them yet.  Anyone tried them on their F4's?

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## BrianWilliam

> I don't need to understand 100 percent of something that doesn't make sense.
> 
> f-d


I can't say whether this quote is accurate related to the OP but it was funny.  That said, I have been drinking. Happy early thanksgiving!

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## ThompsonII

> Michael Lewis: "new Straight Up strings which I have now tried. I didn't measure anything, just put them on a few mandolins and can honestly say they are nice strings and produce an even volume and tone..."    ...' won't knock your socks off..'
> 
> This is a good quote.
> I've been using Gibson Monroes and J75s on my '02 Gibson Fern model.  I put my new Straight up strings on a few days ago.  They do have an even sound, I'm not used to that really.  I am used to my D string really singing out.  Not so on these strings.  They do feel easier on the fingers.   I was thinking that they might help the E string a bit.  But it is kinda like asking the sound man to 'turn me up', everyone ask for it until he turns the whole thing down and balances it out.  These strings are like the soundman, turned down and balanced out.  Good for some applications.  Maybe I'll like them better after another week.
> 
>  I'm going to leave them on for a gig next week but after that.  I expect to take them off and go back to what I had before.


Totally agree. I replaced my last set of Firewires on my Girouard F5 with SUs and two weeks later took them back off again. They produced an even tone across all strings but lacked the overall punch. Have now put on J74s and am barking again (I still miss the Firewires). I'm going to try the SUs on my Rigel which is usually played through the pickup so volume won't be an issue and from the way they changed the F5 sound, I anticipate I will like what I hear. I wouldn't say the SUs are 'good' or 'bad', but they are different and as a new entry with fresh thinking in the strings market, I welcome them. 

Question for Roger - The single piece bridge (eg Red Henry style) is an alternative way to address the uneven vibrations of the 3 piece bridge. What are your views on the merits of one against the other?

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## lloving

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", "Your results may vary", etc. etc. etc. 
My Weber Yellowstone and the SUS medium strings are a great match for me. On the other hand D'Addario strings have been less so. My point is if you are interested give them a try. They might work for you where they don't for others.

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## George R. Lane

My Isabella has her voice back. I gave the SUS two weeks, they sounded fine, not great but, fine. Nice sustain I might add. I just felt she sounded muffled, like she was being held back. So I just put the GHS A270's back on and a big difference, she sings sweetly and can growl when I ask her too. I did communicate my impressions to Roger. So, I think I will stick with these strings. I see that *lloving*, (see above post) loves the tone on his particular Yellowstone. I am glad they are working for him.

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Vincent Capostagno

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## siminoff

Thompson II…

Ooops, really sorry for the delay in responding - my bad. (I've been on the site, but missed your add to this post.) 

So, regarding one-piece bridges vs adjustable bridges; yes, you are correct that the one piece bridge "addresses the uneven" energy distribution problem. However, the one piece bridge is typically heavier than the adjustable (two-piece) bridge and as such robs amplitude a bit. Also, the resilience of the saddle on the two-piece bridge gives that bridge a bit more sustain - especially on the inner two courses of strings. And while I know this is obvious, I just want to add that the two-piece bridge has the advantage of easier set-up and adjustability of action. Another important aspect of the "traditional" (i.e., Gibson style) one-piece bridge is that is is a single-footed bridge. The single foot lends itself to an oval-hole instrument where there are no tone bars and the bridge can straddle an unbraced (or un-tone-bar'd) soundboard. The two-piece adjustable bridge has two feet with each foot sitting over a bass tone bar or treble tone bar respectively, very much like the violin's bridge having one foot over the bass bar. (Like everything else on the F5 mandolin, this two-foot feature was borrowed from the great violin makers, which Loar was very influenced by. Loar was a witness on the Gibson's two-piece adjustable bridge Patent that awarded to Ted McHugh and Lewis Williams.) Very early violins also had one-footed bridges until the design transitions from Amati to Stradavari to Guaneri where the bridge had two feet. So as it relates to SUS they are specifically designed for two-piece bridges to compensate for where the four courses of strings sit on the saddle - there is not as great an advantage when using SUS strings on one-piece bridges.

(Again, sorry for missing your post and commenting earlier!)
R

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## FilmGuy

New guy here- but regards to this issue I may have a different solution.  Looking at classical mandolins typically you have a solid compensated bone top on a fixed sold wood base.  I don't see any with this typical adjustable bridge where you load up all the strings and expect the stop part not to flex, and yet transmit all the vibration down two support pins into the base part.

My solution was to determine the best height setting on my adjustable bridge.  Bought a bone guitar saddle which came closest to the opening dimensions and sanded it to fit.  Raised the bride up to insert the bone, and then lowered it to rest completely on the bone which basically fills the gap L to R and is wider than the width of the outside strings.  The bone saddle is also as wide as the top compensated support.  The adjusters do not support the bridge, but are screwed down and tightened to the base.

There is zero sag this way - fully supported upper bridge - and no need to worry about mixing strings.  The sound is much improved in tonality across all the strings, and it is louder with the increase in vibration to the top.  I did this to a previously owned Bovier F mandolin and got it to break in faster with this method as well.  Sold that to get the Eastman Grisman DGM2 and this model has a thicker soundboard.  I played around with various strings, but once I put the bone saddle insert it fixed the issue and really gave the E & A strings a much improved tone - less tinny and more mellow.  Also a better sound right up the fretboard.  Took me about 30 minutes to fit the bone saddle.  Strings tune up and hold tune better.  FYI

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hank, 

Jim Garber, 

SGraham

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## fscotte

So now that the fad and novelty of new strings have perhaps faded, are those that tried Straight Up Strings still using them?  Thinking about stringing up new builds with these sets.  Been using J75's for a long time.

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## Mandobart

I tried them on my hybrid F4.  I like the sound better with J74's so I went back to them on the next change.

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## Caleb

I keep seeing Caleb Klauder posting pics of his string changes on Instagram and he uses these.  It almost has me curious enough to buy a set.

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## Phil Goodson

I could see no significant difference in sound in spite of about twice the cost.  With no convincing data given supporting the theory in any case, I have abandoned them.

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