# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  $500,000 gibson a-50

## morristownmando

The reserve price on this mandolin is $500,000 This mandolin was supposedly owned by some u.s senator that i have never heard of.And the add says someone else gave $649,000 for it. WHAT GIVES ? # Here it is <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERIDAN-DOWNEYS-A-50-GIBSON-MANDOLIN-SERIAL-423B_W0QQitemZ330254841913QQihZ014QQcategoryZ

10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERIDA....iewItem</a>

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## morristownmando

I must be the only one who thinks this is a little overpriced.

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## mandocaster

I think he should have free shipping on a $500,000 mandolin.

It is unusual to find something 500 times over valued.

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## mrmando

Yes, you are. The rest of us think it's astronomically overpriced. 

I want to talk to the estate sale folks who sold this mandolin for $649K. I want them to handle MY estate sale when the time comes.

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## F5GRun

Id say thats a little high  Maybe due to the shipping from the netherlands...just kidding. Im not really sure why the seller would think he could get this for it. I think they may have added an extra zero or two. But well see. IT looks like it is in great shape and has not been played much, even though it "toured" the USA for a few years. I will def be keeping an eye on it to see how igh it goes.

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## Joel Spaulding

No, I just checked the auction. I was actually having trouble getting on the cafe messageboard...

I came very close to asking the seller the following question:

"Are you high?"  

If it had been a Jul 9, 1923 Loar owned by PRESIDENT Calvin Coolidge it still would not likely be worth $500K.....unless someone is willing to pay it.

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## Tim Peter

As much as I hate to part with it since I just got it and absolutely love it... however, for the Mandolin Cafe community I will offer a fantastic deal. I will let my 1949 A-50 go for the bargain basement price of half of what they are asking for that A-50: $ 250,000. USD price firm, I'm taking a big hit here. Would consider a trade for a Lloyd Loar, a Stradivarius or a late model Ferrari. Serious inquiries only please.

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## mrmando

What politician did your A-50 belong to?

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## Tim Peter

My mandolin was never touched by a politician. Price now: $ 275,000!

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## Jordan Ramsey

[/QUOTE jpeter July 21 2008, 00:56]As much as I hate to part with it since I just got it and absolutely love it... however, for the Mandolin Cafe community I will offer a fantastic deal. I will let my 1949 A-50 go for the bargain basement price of half of what they are asking for that A-50: $ 250,000. USD price firm, I'm taking a big hit here. Would consider a trade for a Lloyd Loar, a Stradivarius or a late model Ferrari. Serious inquiries only please.  


Ha Ha.....here's the best part, a quote from the guy who paid 649k....


       "One of the finest mandolins you will ever hear, and the pickup is hot!" - Eric Stroeve.


Not a description I would use in trying to sell a vintage instrument.:laugh:


Jordan Ramsey
myspace.com/crosspicker

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## mrmando

> My mandolin was never touched by a politician.


Wow, your mandolin might just be the last object in the country that was never ... 

Hm. Better not complete that thought.

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## Martin Jonas

Well, the only way I can imagine this to be a genuine mistake is if the seller is using the standard continental European way of denoting the decimal marker by a _comma_ rather than by a dot. After all, the seller is based in the Netherlands, where one would write "$649,00" to indicate "$649.00". However, that explanation fails to account for the third zero in the listing's "$500,000" and "$649,000".

I do wonder about the seller's fees: I've never sold anything with a reserve price, but my understanding is that Ebay charge fees according to the reserve, meaning that he'll have to pay more to Ebay for this listing than the instrument is worth.

Martin

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## John Rosett

And it's not even an A-50, it's an A-1.

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## MikeEdgerton

At this price it has my nomination for the auction that won't get a single bid this week. Now, if it had been Senator Wayne Morse's mandolin I might reconsider it.

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## TomTyrrell

The seller has been an ebay member since May-04-02 in *United States* , the mandolin is in *Lisse, Netherlands*. Even if the reserve was $50US I still wouldn't bid on it.

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## allenhopkins

Ludicrous. Simply ludicrous. Even if you wanted to consider it some sort of "museum piece," it's had the tuners and bridge replaced, the pickguard's missing, and there's a recently-installed pickup. And despite the worthy history of Sen. Downey, he's not exactly a household word other than in the Downey household. I might want to pay that much for Thomas Jefferson's violin, or Harry Truman's piano, but this is, well, ludicrous.

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## TeleMark

I made the mistake of asking him the source of his pharmaceuticals... #Here is the reply:

The best thing in life, is that you get to share your story. 
There will someday, be a book written about this mandolin. 
Other than the Wright brothers mandolin that is in the Smithsonian, 
there is no mandolin in the United States with more history. 

I dunno, I gotta think that there is one or two other mandolins with a _bit_ more history...

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## MikeEdgerton

Now that's funny.

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## F5GRun

The Wright brothers played Mandolin? Did they share one or did they each have one? If this guy has the most famous mandolin in american history I wonder if hes a member of the most famous mandolin website in mandolin history? I would love to hear him chime in on this. 


Still no bids?!?!?! wha wha what? Be surprise.

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## Jim Garber

Sheridan Downey bio - not a word about mandolins, tho.



First thing I did think was what Martin said about the decimals vs. commas. OTOH the seller may just be insane.

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## ilovemyF9

I made an offer for $233.52, CASH Baby! Oh yeah, I told this joker that my offer INCLUDES s/h WITH insurance OK! You got to be tough when doing business folks. I am still waiting for a response- I hope he/she gets back to me soon because I will spend the 52 cents any minute now.........

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## sgarrity

He surely can't be serious? And if he is, I bet he'd be an awfully interesting fella to meet!  LOL

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## mandocaster

The mandolin would be worth a million dollars if the senator hadn't owned it.

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## Zigeuner

In the listing on eBay under Comments from other members, someone mentioned that the mandolin couldn't be an A-50 since the A-50's were bound on both top and back. The seller then corrected the listing to reflect that the mandolin is, in fact, an A-40. 

That's nice, except it spoils the seller's nice story about the mandolin having been used by the good senator in the 1930's. Since the A-40 was not intruduced until 1948, that doesn't match the story. I mean, you can't play a mandolin that wasn't yet in existence, can you? 

I guess the seller needs to bolster his retirement fund. It does seem a little over-priced don't you all think though? 

By the way, the listing says that the "item location" is in the Netherlands. OTOH, the seller says that the mandolin would be shipped from California. 

I'm frankly thrilled. As a Californian, I'm truly honored to be the home base for such a valuable and interesting piece of....piece of.....ahhhh, historical lore.

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## morristownmando

This is so outrageous i can't even think of anything to say about it.I guess she is trying to be like the piece of toast with that image of jesus or mary on it.You know the one that sold for something crazy.

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## Tim Peter

Ok, folks here it goes, one more offer. The price being radically discounted for my 1949 A-50. Just for the Mandolin Cafe community: $ 150,000.00. This mandolin genuine bona-fide polly-tishun free. It's a dandy. Might consider trading for a modest acreage, a Ford GT-40, or a Lloyd Loar.

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## markishandsome

Maybe it's a joke? Is there some european mando forum community laughing it up right now? I certainly don't get it.

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## Zigeuner

> And it's not even an A-50, it's an A-1.


Yeah, it does resemble an A-1 except the A-1 had back binding, at least in 1934. Gruhn's website has a 1934 A-1 in his Mandolin inventory but he only wants $2,000! Gosh, if Gruhn really knew what his was worth! Wow! LOL 

The problem with the $500,000 one on eBay is that the poor seller doesn't even know what year it is.

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## Daniel Wheeler

Wow..that's all I got.

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## Chris Biorkman

There are no words...

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## mrmando

If you think what the dude says about this mandolin is far out, just read what he says about himself in one of his other auctions:

"Eric picked up the guitar at the age of 17, and he never looked back. Within a years playing time he could emulate every great guitar player, note for note. From Page to Hendrix, Knopfler to Clapton, there was nothing that he could not play."

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## F5GRun

Wow, thats quite a statement. Has anyone downloaded any of his tunes from iTunes yet?

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## John Rosett

> Originally Posted by  (mandorose @ July 21 2008, 03:27)
> 
> And it's not even an A-50, it's an A-1.
> 
> 
> Yeah, it does resemble an A-1 except the A-1 had back binding, at least in 1934.


Yeah, I didn't notice that. Maybe it's an A-OO. I sent him a question asking if the back were arched or flat.

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## Zigeuner

> Originally Posted by  (Zigeuner @ July 21 2008, 23:23)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by  (mandorose @ July 21 2008, 03:27)
> 
> ...


Yes, that's another possibility. The point is that the seller doesn't even know what model he has, he also doesn't even know the serial number and therefore, the year, and now, after the comments from viewers, he's really not sure about the story with the senator and he still hasn't pulled the listing with its absurd price. 

He might be able to get $2,000 max. if he had all of the facts. He would have to drop the story and go for a straight sale. It's insultng to think that he expects us to believe that his "senator" story amounts to "provenance". #

I see this sort of pricing on eBay from time to time and it's getting to be annoying. Even a nice Loar F5 isn't going to bring that kind of money....yet. 

Then, to top it all off, the location is the Netherlands, the instrument is supposedly in California and then we hear the stuff about his musical ability. Phew!

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## MikeEdgerton

> He might be able to get $2,000 max


That's very charitable. I don't think it would get anywhere near that even if it had been owned by a real celebrity.

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## Tom C

If I ever put my mando up for sale, wait til you hear it's story. It will put that one on ebay to shame.

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## Joel Spaulding

Allright guys, time to fess up: Which one of us really put this on @bay simply to provide fodder for the Cafe, but slyly avoid violating the Cafe's Guidlines Re: trolling. ? #  

Reserve ONLY $225,000 : G#bs*n A40? , A50?... whatever- once played by a famous #message board moderator based in NJ.#

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## Denny Gies

I love this thread. Great comments.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Reserve ONLY $225,000 : G#bs*n A40? , A50?... whatever- once played by a famous #message board moderator based in NJ.#


Whoa.... I think it would be worth a little more than that.

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## markishandsome

> Eric picked up the guitar at the age of 17, and he never looked back. Within a years playing time he could emulate every great guitar player, note for note. From Page to Hendrix, Knopfler to Clapton, there was nothing that he could not play.


It all makes sense now. He's insane.

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## squidbrain

Has any mandolin ever sold for 500,000?

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## MikeEdgerton

Yes, Bill Monroe's.

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## ilovemyF9

Man I am now down to $231.63 and I still have no response. #Hey everybody, can you all help me out if he/she accepts my first offer for $233.52. It would mean someone(s) need(s) to loan me $1.89. #Hey people you know what MAS is right? Can someone help a Mando Nut out here please, please? A buck and 89 little ones needed here man, like PLEASE... #Hold everything, I'm gettin an email as I type this to you beautiful lovely people here maybe it's my new Dutch friend accepting my generous offer for that Mando which was once in the bosom of some Politician dude.... Oh no, I dropped my chocolate milk on the keyboard and boy is it cold. Oh the dripping and waiting for the response of my lifeLife can have some wicked pressure here folks. #I will check back to see who is the gorgeous person whom will help a MAS addict out, MAN.............

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## F5GRun

Pull yourself together man! hang in there, the seller is probably practicing his guitar skills in Netherland, California...note for note

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## F5GRun

Its a Flat Back...seller just posted answer to mandorose's question

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## Ken Olmstead

All the A-50 owners should be this guys cheering section. If it sells, you folks just bolstered your net worth by a bunch!! I would bid on it but I will have to wait until he can accurately date its manufacture and purchase!  Somebody should post theirs for $250k and really make this guy look like a loser!! What entertainment!!

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## mrmando

I did listen to a couple of the guy's songs over at CD Baby. Now that he's mastered the difficult art of playing the guitar, I humbly recommend to him a new endeavor: he can learn to TUNE the guitar.

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## MikeEdgerton

> I did listen to a couple of the guy's songs over at CD Baby. Now that he's mastered the difficult art of playing the guitar, I humbly recommend to him a new endeavor: he can learn to TUNE the guitar.

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## Jim Broyles

You guys recognize our former member mythicfish's commentary? It is classic mythicfish and very funny.

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## mandocaster

I don't get it.

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## Jim Broyles

> Given the current "zeitgeist", nothing surprises me any more. A mediocre instrument, owned by an obscure legislator, for sale at an excessive price. Kind of like the tulip bulb frenzy. Curt

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## JHo

The Q&A at the bottom of the page is hysterical. My favorite is...

Q: "Is there a mistake in your price? Maybe you mean reserve of 500 usd? Surely this is not worth more than 2000 USD."
A: "I think you are underestimating the power of this particular mandolin, no pun intended. Feel free to bid away!".

That's a close second to the guy or gal who asked the seller where they obtain their pharmaceuticals.

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## TomTyrrell

If the reserve really is $500,000 it would have cost over $50 just for the listing fee. Expensive joke! He could have bought a pick and a gallon of gas for that.

Another nail in the "insanity" coffin.

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## Zigeuner

> All the A-50 owners should be this guys cheering section. If it sells, you folks just bolstered your net worth by a bunch!! I would bid on it but I will have to wait until he can accurately date its manufacture and purchase!  Somebody should post theirs for $250k and really make this guy look like a loser!! What entertainment!!


I think we agreed that it is an A-40 due to the lack of binding on the back....or maybe it could be an A-1 ftom a later period. In any case, his senator story is now debunked.

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## F5GRun

im still curious about the flat back. Im thinking it is carved but the seller may not understand the differnce. Someone brought up about an A-00 or A-0?? can someone enlighten me?

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## laddy jota

Model: A-0 Mandolin
Available: 1927 to 1934 

1927 A-0 specs: 
Replaced the A-Jr model, symmetrical body, oval sound hole, no binding or soundhole ornamentation, clamshell tailpiece cover, dot inlays, brown finish. 
A-0 discontinued 1934. 

Model: A-00 Mandolin
Available: 1933 to 1943 

1933 A-00 specs: 
Symmetrical body, oval sound hole, carved top, flat black, non-adjustable ebony bridge, pickguard glued to top, bound top, ebony fingerboard, dot inlays, "The Gibson" peghead logo, brown sunburst finish. 
1934 A-00 specs: 
"F" holes, elevated pickguard, clamshell tailpiece, "Gibson" peghead logo. 
1936 A-00 specs: 
Carved back. 
1939 A-00 specs: 
Adjustable bridge, single bound top and back, sunburst finish. 
A-00 discontinued 1943. 

I am thinking that this mandolin is an A-1 from about 1934. I believe the owner said the back was flat as compared to a bowlback mandolin, meaning that it is carved but not a taterbug. There are other hints that he is not up on his mandolin schooling. This ad is even better than the Nigerians could post.

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## F5GRun

Great...Thanks for the info!

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## woodwizard

Geeeeezzzz I let my '42 A50 go for a fraction of his price. I got took I guess and it was a real A50 too.

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## D Sears

I think I'd just buy three or four Gibson Loars.

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## mrmando

If I could buy four Loars for $500K I'd do it. Then I'd sell three of them for $170K apiece, keep the fourth and pocket the extra $10K.

Our pal Eric has answered some more questions -- including one from me. His answer refers to one of his other eBay items -- a signed pardon from President Andrew Johnson for a mere $16K: 



> Q: 	Hey Eric -- can you post a copy of your receipt showing you paid $649,000 for this mandolin at an estate sale? And maybe you could let us know who handled that estate sale. I have some mandolins I want them to sell for me. 	
> A: 	First you should buy our historic President Sealed pardon, then we will sell you the bill of sale.


And here's the only appropriate response:



> Keep the pardon, bud -- you're going to need it more than I will.

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## Zigeuner

> Model: A-0 Mandolin
> Available: 1927 to 1934 
> 
> 1927 A-0 specs: 
> Replaced the A-Jr model, symmetrical body, oval sound hole, no binding or soundhole ornamentation, clamshell tailpiece cover, dot inlays, brown finish. 
> A-0 discontinued 1934. 
> 
> Model: A-00 Mandolin
> Available: 1933 to 1943 
> ...


Could be, except if you are correct, that means the seller's story about the good senator could be true and then the mandolin could be worth....worth.....wel, heck. maybe even $250 bucks.

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## Charles Johnson

I just sent the seller this question:

"I am interested in buying your mandolin. A business associate of mine, the widow of the former oil minister of Nigeria, has sent me a chasiers check for 525,000 Euros. Would you be willing to deposit this check to your account and send me the mandolin and the 25,000 Euros difference?"

I hope he posts an answer!

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## f5loar

I thought you guys knew more about vintage Gibsons then this. The A1 by 1934 and then it gets the wide body. It is bound on the back does not have the back brace. You can see the back brace in the photo and it's flat. The B in the FON means 1936. Simple, it is a 1936 A-00.
How the Senator bought it new in early 30's remains the mystery. How the seller couldn't find $35 to get someone like Gruhn's to appraise it properly another mystery. Why Eric choose non-Gibson parts to repair it still another mystery and tailpiece likely replaced too since it should have a clamshell TP. But the big mystery is the appreciation in price because a Senator had it. Usually Lawyers or Politicians devalue anything they owned. Bottom line is this was a waste of ebay fees for the seller.

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## Zigeuner

> I thought you guys knew more about vintage Gibsons then this. The A1 by 1934 and then it gets the wide body. It is bound on the back does not have the back brace. You can see the back brace in the photo and it's flat. The B in the FON means 1936. Simple, it is a 1936 A-00.
> How the Senator bought it new in early 30's remains the mystery. How the seller couldn't find $35 to get someone like Gruhn's to appraise it properly another mystery. Why Eric choose non-Gibson parts to repair it still another mystery and tailpiece likely replaced too since it should have a clamshell TP. #But the big mystery is the appreciation in price because a Senator had it. Usually Lawyers or Politicians devalue anything they owned. Bottom line is this was a waste of ebay fees for the seller.


I think you've probably solved the mystery. If, as you say, the mandolin is almost certainly a 1936 model, then the story fails. 

Somewhere, the ghost of the late senator cries out for justice....and an expert appraisal.

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...and an expert appraisal.


There's a famous owner of a musical instrument shop in Tennessee that is famous for appraising instruments yards beyond what they will sell for. I'm guessing his appraisal on this wouldn't even hit $2000.00, a small percentage of what the seller thinks it's worth

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## Eric Hanson

In one of his answers he says that he made the mistake and it should be in Euros. Would that not translate to about a cool million US?

Eric

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## Bill Snyder

Right this minute (look at time stamp on post) half a million Euros would be $789,184.29.
The thing is they put commas in Euros instead of decimal points, so how much does he want for it? And if you read his bio he has spent 20 or so years in the USA so why would he make a mistake like that? 
The second to last line of the discription says _
"Reserve price for this instrument set at $500,000 US."_

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## Roger Wheeler

Yeah boy, I remember sitting by the radio listening to Pres. Roosevelt's fireside chat and ol' Senator Downey would break out the ol' Gibson mando and play some serious chops!!!!!! #You could hear Franklin clapping in the background. # A half a million bucks because a senator you've never heard of took it on some trips!?!?!? # Sheesh

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## Tim Peter

> All the A-50 owners should be this guys cheering section. If it sells, you folks just bolstered your net worth by a bunch!! I would bid on it but I will have to wait until he can accurately date its manufacture and purchase!  Somebody should post theirs for $250k and really make this guy look like a loser!! What entertainment!!


c'mon! you're killing me! I posted my 1949 A-50 first for 250k. no takers. Then I offered it up for 150k. still no takers. I can't believe I'm going to do this but I'm going to an all time low. You can have my A-50 for 75k! 


will consider trading for this: just another Gibson

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## Tim Peter

> I just sent the seller this question:
> 
> "I am interested in buying your mandolin. A business associate of mine, the widow of the former oil minister of Nigeria, has sent me a chasiers check for 525,000 Euros. Would you be willing to deposit this check to your account and send me the mandolin and the 25,000 Euros difference?"
> 
> I hope he posts an answer!


best. post. ever.   [B]

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## mandocaster

[quote=tpeter,July 22 2008, 23:34
c'mon! you're killing me! #I posted my 1949 A-50 first for 250k. #no takers. #Then I offered it up for 150k. #still no takers. #I can't believe I'm going to do this but I'm going to an all time low. #You can have my A-50 for 75k! #
[/quote]


I think this just confirms the softness of the vintage market.

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## John Hill

Just for giggles, here's the Q&A for world famous Downey mandolin:

Q: 	Some things you should know: The A40 first came out in 1948. Before that an unbound back F hole A model was Model A-00. The A-50 always both prewar and postwar had a bound back and fingerboard. This one does not. The number you give is easy to date as it has the "B" in it which meant made in 1936. It has the catalog specs(minus tuners,bridge and maybe tailpiece)of a 1936 A-00. In the US a fine all original condition 1936 A-00 would bring around $1000. Hard to say the historical price added to it. Some would say "priceless". 	Jul-22-08
A: 	This is awesome!! We have been trying to track the original date manufactured. Some said that the style that the "Gibson" is written put it in the 1930's. Other than the slides, a TIME magazine, and family stories, there was no other information available. Obvoiusly the only value it has, over any other mandolin of the era, is the history. Which the family was very reluctant to give up.

Q: 	Bwaahaahaaa... Only Bill Monroe's Lloyd Loar is worth anywhere near your starting bid...maybe. Good luck... 	Jul-22-08
A: 	I have seen the Orville Wright's mandolin when I was in Washington DC. I did not research the story that much. He used to play it for hours a day. The mandolin looked like it was in very mint condition(don't know if it was refurbished?). There are pictures of it online. From what I know of the Downey's, they bought a ton of stuff, and they took very good care of it. This mandolin is still in very good shape, and with a little work, could be restored to look mint. It has been played, by 2 very dedicated mandolin players.

Q: 	Dear Sir/Madam, surly you mean $500,000 Zimbabwean Dollars, right??? James 	Jul-22-08
A: 	Sorry, we meant $500,000 Euros! Which country is this auction in ?

Q: 	Hey Eric -- can you post a copy of your receipt showing you paid $649,000 for this mandolin at an estate sale? And maybe you could let us know who handled that estate sale. I have some mandolins I want them to sell for me. 	Jul-22-08
A: 	First you should buy our historic President Sealed pardon, then we will sell you the bill of sale.

Q: 	You have said there are photos of Downey playing this instrument. I have searched the web with no luck. Can you post some? 	Jul-22-08
A: 	We have the original slide film.

Q: 	Is the back of the mandolin flat, or is it arched like the top? 	Jul-22-08
A: 	Flat

Q: 	Where do you obtain your pharmaceuticals? I can't see how the odometer on this instrument will impact the value a whit. 	Jul-21-08
A: 	The best thing in life, is that you get to share your story. There will someday, be a book written about this mandolin. Other than the Wright brothers mandolin that is in the Smithsonian, there is no mandolin in the United States with more history.

Q: 	Given the current "zeigeist", nothing surprises me any more. A mediocre instrument, owned by an obscure legislator, for sale at an excessive price. Kind of like the tulip bulb frenzy. Curt 	Jul-21-08
A: 	This mandolin has traveled more than any other instrument in the world I think. The Downey's were travel freaks. There are pictures of this instrument in various parts of the world. We also have the original copy of the TIME magazine article. When was the last time a mandolin playing Senator made news? This mandolin was played before the US Senate.

Q: 	Sorry, But it appears to me what you have there is an A40 not an A50. The A50's have binding on both the top and the back of the instrument. The A40's have binding only on the top. Thought I'd let you know. Pencilpuss 	Jul-21-08
A: 	Hey cool. An A40 it is. There is very little information available on Gibsons produced during that time. The binding has shrunk with age. Elizabeth "Winnie" Downey had no information on this mandolin.

Q: 	Is there a mistake in your price? Maybe you mean reserve of 500 usd? Surely this is not worth more than 2000 USD. 	Jul-21-08
A: 	I think you are underestimating the power of this particular mandolin, no pun intended. Feel free to bid away!

Q: 	Is shipping to Ontario Canada L0B 1J0 about the same as to the USA? 	Jul-21-08
A: 	Yes. When the auction ends, if there is a winning bidder, the mandolin will be shipped from California.

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## TeleMark

> The Q&A at the bottom of the page is hysterical. #My favorite is...
> 
> That's a close second to the guy or gal who asked the seller where they obtain their pharmaceuticals.


Yeah, that would be me...

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## f5loar

Quote"Obvoiusly the only value it has, over any other mandolin of the era, is the history. Which the family was very reluctant to give up."
yeah probably because the family didn't know he played such a piece of #### mandolin either. So much so they let it rot in the attic. 
I am a bit concerned about sending the money to Neitherlands and the mandolin being shipped out of Calif.
SCAM! And if it is not a scam..... it should be.

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## F5GRun

I just asked the guy if I can play it in california. since it seems like thats where it will be. Lets see if this rattles his cage.

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## Jonathan Reinhardt

funny, in the odd sense.
the sad part is that this kind of sale and the discussion that ensues place a few models of Gibson from that era in a less than favorable light. 
there are nice A-50's, and possibly A-00's, that in their time helped many a mandolin player afford something worthwhile.
they are their own piece of history, and still give pleasure to those who appreciate them for what they are.
rasa
Jonathan Reinhardt.

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## Zigeuner

> funny, #in the odd sense.
> the sad part is that this kind of sale and the discussion that ensues place a few models of Gibson from that era in a less than favorable light. 
> there are nice A-50's, and possibly A-00's, that in their time helped many a mandolin player afford something worthwhile.
> they are their own piece of history, and still give pleasure to those who appreciate them for what they are.
> rasa
> Jonathan Reinhardt.


After reading all of these posts and a couple of e-mails to and from the seller, which he didn't post on the listing, I've come to the conclusion that this is a scam. 

He can't be thinking that anyone will pay his inflated price. There are few people who have that much cash and would want to withstand the IRS and FBI investigation that would ensue for such a post 9-11 money transfer in the first place. 

The mention of the item location in the Netherlands, the registration location in the U.S. and the statement that the mandolin, if sold, would be shipped from California, would raise my suspicions if the first bid were $100, let alone $500,000. 

There is the fact that the seller won't tell us the serial number. He pretends not to know the model of the mandolin and sticks by the fairy tale about the wandering minsrtel senator. The picture is complete.

There is another "seller" on eBay from time to time who lists vintage guitars in the one to two million dollar region. I surmise that this is done to use eBay as some sort of a worldwide low-cost advertising method. 

These listings are fun to read but I won't be bidding.

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## f5loar

He has posted 11 questions/answers concerning the mandolin and seems to be up front about learning more about it. Just scroll to the bottom and you will see them. Also he stated the serial no. in the listing. While it is really the factory order number as the low end models did not carry a serial number this is the only number you will find on the mandolin and that seems to be legit since that number dates it to 1936 and it fits the catalog specs of the A00. I would suspect he got the A50/A40 from those not in the know which raises the question why he would not seek out a pro appraisal for $35 or so. While discussing this one is entertaining to us it really has no merit since it is in all respects just a joke from someone you probably would not want to do business with if the starting bid was $100.

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## MikeEdgerton

I'm waiting to snipe it at the end.

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## ilovemyF9

The guy is playing with us all! I asked about Zimbabwean Dollars AND he answered back, as well as posted it, Pure Joke, IMHO.
Oh by the way I am now down to $189.22.

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## mrmando

Yes, I think Eric is having as much fun with this as we are. If he's willing to lose $149K on the mandolin, then what's another $50 for a listing fee?

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## Zigeuner

> Yes, I think Eric is having as much fun with this as we are. If he's willing to lose $149K on the mandolin, then what's another $50 for a listing fee?


Hmmmm, does that mean that Eric Stroeve is the present owner? That is, the seller...is that Eric Stroeve? I know we were told that Eric Stroeve paid a lot of money for it at one time (obsiously, if true, without seeking expert advice) but I wasn't aware that he was still involved.

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## mrmando

Yep, that's my conclusion. Like Elmo and Bob Dole, Eric likes to refer to himself in the third person.

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## f5loar

Mr. Monroe did that too. If I were Eric and I paid that much for it way back and was trying to sell it for less today I would not feel like listing it on ebay. I would have dug a hole and crawled in it.

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## Loki

I have been enjoying this thread #immensely. Its taken me through an otherwise boring work week. Based on his history on ebay, I can assume that this is his website: http://cdbaby.com/cd/flyingdutchman

So maybe a slight chance of confusing euros and decimal points with an excuse of being from the Netherlands...but really, I think the excuse is the pharmaceutical angle that explains it all.

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## Bill Snyder

How many of you have looked at his other listings? This mandolin listing will get seen by several people and a lot of them will do the same thing I did and take a look at his other listings. I never would have seen them otherwise. Maybe this was a cheap way to get all of his auctions seen by a large number of people.

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## Zigeuner

> How many of you have looked at his other listings? This mandolin listing will get seen by several people and a lot of them will do the same thing I did and take a look at his other listings. I never would have seen them otherwise. Maybe this was a cheap way to get all of his auctions seen by a large number of people.



That's exactly the point that I made a few posts back. Some people do use eBay for low-cost advertising. One in particular is MOMI (Museum of Musical Instruments). The owner is an instrument collector and seller who periodically will list a high-end vintage Martin or Gibson guitar or mandolin at an unbelievable price. He knows it won't sell and the apparent purpose is to get people to look at his instrument website and also to make some collateral sales. #

One of his listings within the past year or so was a 1930's Martin OM 42 or 45 grade for something like 1.5 million dollars. I don't know whether it sold or not. There's nothing wrong with that. eBay gets their listing fee, the lister gets his exposure and that's the end of it. 

So, yes, it is a cheap way to get things seen by a lot of people. 

Here's his link. 

http://www.themomi.org/museum/index.html

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## Bill Snyder

Yeah, he has been discussed along with his $675,000.00 mandolin in several threads here at the Mandolin Cafe.

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## markishandsome

That might work if he had lots of other mando-related things for sale, but all he's got is a $40 guitar and that presidential pardon. He comes across as a lunatic who doesn't know apples from mandolins, which does NOT make me want to download his songs from itunes. It does either look like a joke or cheap advertising, but either way, he's a dufus.

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## F5GRun

"Dufus"...agreed

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## MikeEdgerton

OK, now I understand. He's hawking his music. That's what this is all about.

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## mrmando

> OK, now I understand. He's hawking his music. ...


Which is about as unbearable as his ad copy.

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## Jim Broyles

> OK, now I understand. He's hawking his music. That's what this is all about.


Which is bad. Really bad.

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## MikeEdgerton

Well, yeah.

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## Eddie Sheehy

> This is so outrageous i can't even think of anything to say about it.I guess she is trying to be like the piece of toast with that image of jesus or mary on it.You know the one that sold for something crazy.


I had apiece of toast just like that this morning. Why, oh why, did I have to be HUNGRY?

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## JHo

> Originally Posted by  (MikeEdgerton @ July 24 2008, 10:03)
> 
> OK, now I understand. He's hawking his music. That's what this is all about.
> 
> 
> Which is bad. Really bad.


I wasn't impressed either. For someone who touts himself, in the third person no less, as having mastered the playing styles of many historically great players, I'm struggling to figure out which one he's emulating on those recordings.

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## F5GRun

is there a place I can hear his tunes for free?

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## Jim Broyles

CD Baby. Search Flying Dutchman.

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## TomTyrrell

Four pages of discussion and quite a few people went to the trouble of listening to his "music". That would be what is called "success" in the advertising world...

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## JHo

> Four pages of discussion and quite a few people went to the trouble of listening to his "music". That would be what is called "success" in the advertising world...


Yes and no. Folks seem to agree that his music is nothing to write home about, so yes he got his name out there a bit more, but no it's not in a flattering light in this case. I don't get the impression anyone is running off to buy his CD or anything. Is it still good advertising if it begets much ridicule and no praise?

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## Dragonflyeye

Under the Q & A, it clarifies that it's $500,000 euros. #Oh, that's only $319,000! Much better!

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## jefflester

> Under the Q & A, it clarifies that it's $500,000 euros. #Oh, that's only $319,000! #Much better!


He's not being serious. Of course the whole auction is not serious either.

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## mclaugh

> Under the Q & A, it clarifies that it's $500,000 euros. Oh, that's only $319,000! Much better!


Euros go the other way. It's more like $785,000.

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## mrmando

Yes. Somewhere, be it Hawaii, the Netherlands, or California, Eric Stroeve is laughing his head off. And I'll bet Senator Sheridan Downey is too.

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## Zigeuner

> Originally Posted by  (MikeEdgerton @ July 24 2008, 10:03)
> 
> OK, now I understand. He's hawking his music. ...
> 
> 
> Which is about as unbearable as his ad copy.


That reminds me of a quote from the great 12 string guitar man, Leo Kottke. The way I heard it, someone asked him once why he didn't do vocals, rather than instrumentals. Leo was quoted as saying somethng to the effect that...."Well, I'd sing more except my voice sounds kinda like goose f***s on a muggy day". #

I listened to one of Mr. Stroeve's CD's. He could take a hint from Leo Kottke. 

And before anyone attacks me, I freely admit that I don't sing very well.......but it's probably OK because I'm not trying to sell records. #

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## markishandsome

His music is described on CDbaby as

"California Acoustic Folk Fusion with lyrics inspired by Kitesurfing and Snowkiting."

It also says his cd is "permanently out of stock"

To me it's looking less like cheap advertising. A LOT of people would have to download his mp3s for him to make any profit, and that's only if he gets ANY royalties at all from itunes. He only mentions his music once in passing but goes on and on about Downey and the Wright Bros etc. It just seems too subtle for a guy who promotes himself as a latter-day Hendrix and says things like "His music was pushing boundaries, and his live performances are legendary."

I think he just fell off his snow-kite a few too many times and genuinely believes his mandolin is worth 50k. Some people are so deluded they can convince themselves of almost anything, for example, thinking you sound just like Mark Knopfler when really...

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## f5loar

You would have thought a well respected and paid US Senator of the 1930's that was such a "hot" mandolin picker of the time would have bought one of those fancy F5 Gibsons instead of a low end cheap student model.

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## mrmando

> You would have thought a well respected and paid US Senator of the 1930's that was such a "hot" mandolin picker of the time would have bought one of those fancy F5 Gibsons instead of a low end cheap student model.


You can bet he requisitioned the F5, but after the check came he got the cheaper mandolin and spent the rest of the money on hooch.

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## mrmando

> I think he just fell off his snow-kite a few too many times and genuinely believes his mandolin is worth 50k. Some people are so deluded they can convince themselves of almost anything, for example, thinking you sound just like Mark Knopfler when really...


I'm reminded of a feller whose picture I still have up at emando.com. The guy had ordered a custom electric mandolin from a certain builder, which probably cost about $3-4K at the time. He had somebody take a few photos and started up a Web site. I never heard samples of his music, but it was supposed to combine his passion for martial arts with his mando and ocarina playing. After, apparently, some fruitless months trying to convince people to give him a gig, the guy finally gave up and tried to sell the e-mando on eBay. Only he was somehow persuaded that his epithelials had ennobled this instrument to the point of its being worth five times what he'd paid for it -- hence he listed it for $20K.


Then there was the guy who'd been a roadie at a Led Zeppelin show in the '70s, and picked up one of the cheap bows that Jimmy Page used to use on his guitar. (Looked like a 3/4 size student cello bow.) After 20 years of keeping the bow around, the dude decided it was time to sell. His asking price on eBay was $35,000, which included him flying to the home of the lucky winner to present the bow.

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## MikeEdgerton

> That reminds me of a quote from the great 12 string guitar man, Leo Kottke. The way I heard it, someone asked him once why he didn't do vocals, rather than instrumentals. Leo was quoted as saying somethng to the effect that...."Well, I'd sing more except my voice sounds kinda like goose f***s on a muggy day".


Listen to the first two or three Leo Kottke recordings, he does sing and it isn't all that bad. His recording of Louise is probably the best in my mind as it actually portrays the right emotion for the song.

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## MikeEdgerton

> ....His asking price on eBay was $35,000, which included him flying to the home of the lucky winner to present the bow.


But of course, I would not have expected any less.

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## TomTyrrell

> Is it still good advertising if it begets much ridicule and no praise?


Oddly enough, yes. Good or bad attention is attention and that is the goal. If people aren't talking about you people aren't hearing about you.

If 99.9% of people don't like your stuff that means for every thousand people who listen you'll get one new fan. If you could get _every_ person on earth to listen to your stuff you would have more than 6,000,000 fans.

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## laddy jota

His description has now changed to a 1936 A-00, which I believe is the group-thinking on this model. Eric is probably enjoying reading the Mandolin Cafe posts as much as the rest of us are. How much is a good joke worth? The punchline will be when one of his straight-man makes a last minute bid which wins the auction. The laugh might be worth 50 bucks on a hot summer with $4 gasoline.

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## phiddlepicker

I've got one of those I'd be willing to sell for half price. lol

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## phiddlepicker

Ok ok, I'm a reasonable guy, I'll trade ya mine outright for a Ricky Skaggs DMM...you pay shipping.

Anyone? Anyone?

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## Aran

Most entertaining thread for a quiet Friday afternoon in the office 

So it's seems conclusive.

1. This bloke is nut job and is as mad as a box of frogs.

2. His music is rubbish.

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## mrmando

Or I could say I don't care for his music and he seems sadly misinformed about the vintage instrument market. Or he just might be trying to jerk somebody's chain.

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## eadg145

I wonder if he's not just laundering money? Let's see if someone bids.

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## Zigeuner

> I wonder if he's not just laundering money? #Let's see if someone bids.


Assuming for the sake of argument, that the instrument were to sell at $500K. The buyer would have to explain where all of that money came from and the happy seller would have to explain as well. 

I think it would be extremely difficult for money laundering to be carried out under such circumsances. 

Furthermore, if anyone out there were to want to hide that much money, almost anyone on this list could make better suggestions. Say, for example, a couple of signed F-5's from the 20's and a 1940's Martin D-28 or two.

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## mrmando

Or 1,000 Michael Kellys.

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## EdH

Uh, I have a Fender signed by Rhonda Vincent and the Rage.. Not a politician, but it's not a Gibson either.. How about $150,000 or will take your July 1923 in trade.

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## mrmando

> Uh, I have a Fender signed by Rhonda Vincent and the Rage.. Not a politician,...


Too bad -- I might vote for her!

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## jefflester

Dang, I forgot when the auction closed, didn't get my bid in on time.

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## Bill Snyder

What? The auction ended and no one bid? I am shocked. I thought for sure a consortium of foreign businessmen would pick this jewel up and lock it away to be sold later at a huge profit.

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## Zigeuner

> What? The auction ended and no one bid? I am shocked. I thought for sure a consortium of foreign businessmen would pick this jewel up and lock it away to be sold later at a huge profit.


If I were the ghost of the good senator, I'd be extremely upset. Maybe next time.

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## morristownmando

He might cut the price down a few 100,000 like about 5 of them and relist it.

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## MikeEdgerton

I was out of town and missed my chance to snipe it at the end.

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## F5GRun

This guy now is specializing in Roman Perfume Flasks...located in Hawaii.

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