# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  collings vs northfield resale value.

## varmonter

hi all
 I may be coming into some money as vw may be buying back my car(which i don't use) i currently play a rigel a+f..
  I was looking at and playing several mandolins at a local shop. It came down to  a northfield "big Mon" or  a collings  mf deluxe. Both are great playing/sounding mandolins 
  the collings being a bit more spendy. I think I would be happy with either. 
   My question is about resale value and how much money may be lost over time. 
  I have a martin guitar that i could resell for what i paid for it..I have a nice taylor
that i can't seem to sell for 1/2 of what i paid for it...?? :Crying: 
    So I know if i bought a gibson f5 i probably would not have to ask this question.
  But used f5's are pretty non existent in my area  and i know (as in my martin) it is brand not necessarily quality i am buying with gibson. And I just can't seem to bring 
myself to buy a mandolin i haven't played...So which mandolin do you think has a better resale value the northfield or the collings??

  Thanks for reading my first post.

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## DataNick

Offhand I would say Collings...it appears that used MF mandos still fetch in the $3k range while used Northfields are more in the $2.5k-$2.8k range based on my recollection of what I've seen in the Classifieds...YMMV

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## almeriastrings

Buy a used one (of whatever brand) then you are not likely to lose much, if anything, as long as you take care of it.

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Jeff Mando, 

lflngpicker, 

Mark Wilson

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## Ron McMillan

> Buy a used one (of whatever brand) then you are not likely to lose much, if anything, as long as you take care of it.


Exactly. I've been watching Northfield prices, and it appears that an F5S in near-new condition can be found at between $2200 to $2500 (having depreciated $400 to $600 from new). That's a LOT of mandolin for the money - *and* it is unlikely to drop much, if at all, over the next few years. If I lived in the USA, I would have one by now.

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lflngpicker

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## Dagger Gordon

> Exactly. I've been watching Northfield prices, and it appears that an F5S in near-new condition can be found at between $2200 to $2500 (having depreciated $400 to $600 from new). That's a LOT of mandolin for the money - *and* it is unlikely to drop much, if at all, over the next few years. If I lived in the USA, I would have one by now.


I understand your point, but are you not therefore saying that the Collings is more likely to hold its value than the Northfield if Northfields can be found at such a depreciated price? Are Collings being offered at similar depreciated prices - or indeed do as many turn up for sale?

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lflngpicker

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## Mandoplumb

Buy the one you like the best then maybe you won't be selling it. I never think of resell when I buy anything. Most things I wear plumb out so they have no resell value, mandolins I rarely sell just keep buying more.

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Francis J, 

G7MOF, 

lflngpicker

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## Ron McMillan

> I understand your point, but are you not therefore saying that the Collings is more likely to hold its value than the Northfield if Northfields can be found at such a depreciated price? Are Collings being offered at similar depreciated prices - or indeed do as many turn up for sale?


I haven't watched Collings prices because I'm not very interested in Collings mandolins (fine instruments though they are). The initial fall in second hand value of used Northfields is not at all extreme - it's similar to all new instruments. 

But *after* that drop in value, they seem to hold their prices very well. Like Mandoplumb I don't really understand obsessing over future values. You seem worried about which mandolin might hold a couple of hundred dollars more value over the course of several years, indeed so worried that it will affect your choice of brand. That, I don't understand, but my reading of the market for used Northfields makes me think they are great value.

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## Upis Land

Varm,

I understand your perspective. I think one reason you aren't getting a more direct answer is that both Northfield and Collings will hold the value similarly in proportion to their initial price. Both are highly regarded brands. The suggestion to by used is a good one for eliminating depreciation. 

In the end though, I would recommend you spend a little more time playing both, and then get the one you find yourself having the most trouble putting down.

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## Austin Bob

It's always hard to predict what a used instrument will sell for 5 or more years from now.

Some things are pretty constant. For instance, if you buy a used upper end Les Paul or Stat, you can pretty much bet you'll get a large chunk of your money back if you decide to sell it in a few years. They are extremely popular instruments, therefore there's always a good market for them and they hold their value.

Mandolins are a different breed. Even marquee brands sometimes have a hard time selling simply because there's such a limited number of players. I've sometimes seen high end used mandolins in the classifieds sit there for months. It's not that they were overpriced, it's more of the demand side of the equation.

Both Collings and Northfield are respected brands, but only to mandolin community. A guitar player looking for a mandolin would likely pass them by simply because the're not familiar names.

As of right now, I think Collings may hold the slight edge, partially due to name recognition because they also make guitars, but Northfield is making huge headways. Who knows what will happen 5 years from now.

But I also strongly feel you should buy the one you like, and not base it on resale value. If you like the instrument, you will play it and enjoy it. Even if you end up selling it and losing money someday, you won't feel bad because you will have enjoyed having it.

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Paul Statman

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## 9lbShellhamer

First, I'll say I have owned all of the above mandolins...  :Grin: 

The Northfield used is a great bargain. The market is soft right now and an F5S that's only a year old can be found for only $2200-$2400. My mint F5s was a Dec '15 build and it sold for only $2200. 

The Northfields sound absolutely outstanding if you like their tone. They are top notch tonally. Right up with the top dogs. 
AS FOR RESALE though.... Their finish is a little soft and delicate. I had to ship mine back for touch up work and I baby my instruments. A lot of people say the same thing... The gang at Northfield was OUTSTANDING in getting it back, touching up the finish chips, etc. All I had to pay was shipping... but I knew if I kept it for long even babying it that it might not look new forever.. This will hurt resale. 

The Collings market is steady and strong, and the finish is indestructible, bombproof. If you like the Collings tone, I'd get the Collings. If you like the Northfield tone and don't ever plan on selling, get a Northfield. I miss mine, but I don't regret selling it to get my Gibson.

So, all that being said... Call up The Mandolin Store and ask about deals on Gibson F5's as well if you like that sort of thing... I got a crazy good deal on my Gibson. They'll be honest and are great to work with. 

the Collings will cut the best in a jam. The Gibson will do great in the cut dept also. The northfield has a great open tone and sweet buttery wet top end but doesn't cut as well. They're all great and gorgeous and you can't go wrong, but I would get the Collings if you think about resale.

the Northfield and Collings are VERY different tonally. I preferred playing my northfield at home the best compared to my gibson and collings, but it didn't cut well with other loud instruments. 

Good luck!

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Paul Statman

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## sblock

Unless you are buying for speculation purposes, the difference in resale value between these instruments does not amount to much. So I would not worry one way or another.  After an initial drop (around $500), they will both tend to hold their value pretty well. If you are really worried about the small difference, you can nullify that (to a large extent) by buying something used, not new.

For what it's worth, I bought a Northfield (new) a few years back, and sold it last year at a profit, because the prices for new instruments had gone up substantially. But that was certainly not my plan, or in my mind, when I bought it! Perhaps the same could be said of Collings, though? (I can't say). 

Really, you should _buy the mandolin you like the best_, not the one whose value you think will hold the best.

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Paul Statman

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## Ancient

I think American made instruments hold their value better than import instruments.

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## Eddie Sheehy

Buy USED and get that depreciation out of the way.  Personally I'd go with the Collings MF5.  There's a 'bargain' in the Classifieds right now:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/102189#102189

MFI.

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DataNick

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## almeriastrings

> I think American made instruments hold their value better than import instruments.


OK.

1. Gilchrist (import to the US)
2. Heiden (import to the US)

Sure about that?

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DataNick, 

ebeja, 

JKA, 

michaelcj, 

NewKid, 

Paul Statman, 

sgarrity, 

Spencer

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## Br1ck

> Buy the one you like the best then maybe you won't be selling it. I never think of resell when I buy anything. Most things I wear plumb out so they have no resell value, mandolins I rarely sell just keep buying more.


This opinion has saved me money. If I'm thinking resale before buying, I don't buy. If I think I can't possibly live without it, I buy.

Used is the way to go anyway. You pay a lot to get that new and shiny you will ding up anyway. To me an instrument needs about ten dents and a few scratches just to alleviate the worry. Why have a mandolin you can't take out?

I put an ugly four inch gash in my 65 Epiphone Texan. It would have been heartbreaking if I had bought the Gibson J45 vintage which was the runner up. Instead, I took it to my luthier and asked if he could match the other five equally horrible gashes in the top. A little olive oil and dirt and I was good to go.

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## Folkmusician.com

It is going to be more about economics than makers in a case like this.

What is the US economy going to do and how will this come into play with a domestically produced product?
Will China's economy continue to climb and how much will a new Northfield cost in 5-10 years?

Both are great instruments and will always be desirable, so it will most likely come down to the street price of new instruments at the time you attempt to sell.

Oh, and the popularity of mandolins as a whole!

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## Mark Wilson

> If I'm thinking resale before buying, I don't buy. If I think I can't possibly live without it, I buy.


Sometimes you have to go thru a keeper or two to know for sure what makes a keeper a keeper.   :Smile:

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Jeff Mando, 

jmkatcher, 

Paul Statman

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## sblock

> I think American made instruments hold their value better than import instruments.


This statement smacks of prejudice, and besides, it's complete nonsense, because it's not based on the available data.  Nearly all high-end, quality instruments tend to hold their value!  Period. This goes for violins (Italian, German, French violins are among the best) and mandolins (Australian mandolins by Duff and Gilchrist do exceptionally well, and Giacomels from Italy do well, too), and just about any other kind of instrument. And the higher-end Northfields have been GAINING in resale price ever since the company began selling these.  With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.

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## samlyman

I disagree with sblock when it comes to Pac-Rim instruments. Yes, Giacomel, Gilchrist and Duff's tend to hold their value but there must be 10,000 Kentucky/Loar/Eastman's sold for every Gilchrist. The Pac-Rim instruments do not hold their value as well. Take a Kentucy KM 1000 or 900 for example. It is common to see these go for half to 2/3s of what they cost new. I am not not knocking these instruments and even believe that some of them can be very good-sounding instruments. I personally am familiar with some very expensive Gilchrists and Heiden's that are not as strong as the best Kentucky mandolins I have played. Perhaps the pricing of used Pac Rim mandolins is a function of market size and also some form of Asian discrimination...

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Paul Statman, 

PiginaPen

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## Folkmusician.com

> Take a Kentucy KM 1000 or 900 for example. It is common to see these go for half to 2/3s of what they cost new.


We have to factor in what was paid for these originally.  New prices of good Chinese made instruments have climbed at a much higher rate than domestic instruments, so it is entirely possible that someone selling A KM-900 or KM-1000 is getting back 100% of their purchase price.  Some of these mandolins have doubled in price in the last decade.

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## samlyman

Thanks for giving us the long-term perspective on this Robert!

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

It sounds like the OP had already narrowed down to two specific mandolins that are available in his area, and is not looking to buy used (or new) from outside his area.  In that scenario, the only deciding factor really should be which one he likes more. If he doesn't like the Collings as much as the Northfield, for example, why would he choose to buy it even if it holds more resale value down the road?

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Francis J, 

sblock

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## Folkmusician.com

I still have a few of these burned into memory.  The best example was receiving the new 2012 Kentucky price list and some models went up 50% overnight!  

This always hurts, because no-one will initially pay the new price, so it pretty much wipes out sales for a while until people get used to seeing it. So every year (or sometimes twice a year), I get the anxiety of waiting to see the price increases.  :Smile:

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lflngpicker

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## sblock

> I disagree with sblock when it comes to Pac-Rim instruments. Yes, Giacomel, Gilchrist and Duff's tend to hold their value but there must be 10,000 Kentucky/Loar/Eastman's sold for every Gilchrist. The Pac-Rim instruments do not hold their value as well. Take a Kentucy KM 1000 or 900 for example. It is common to see these go for half to 2/3s of what they cost new. I am not not knocking these instruments and even believe that some of them can be very good-sounding instruments. I personally am familiar with some very expensive Gilchrists and Heiden's that are not as strong as the best Kentucky mandolins I have played. Perhaps the pricing of used Pac Rim mandolins is a function of market size and also some form of Asian discrimination...


I think you may have missed the point about what I wrote. I tried to be clear that my comment applied to *high-end* mandolins. The Pac-Rim mandolin brands you mentioned, like Kentucky, Eastman, and The Loar are _not_ high-end. They are lower- and middle-range instruments when it comes to prices. And among the lower-priced options, and as you wrote, there must be 10,000 sold for every truly high-end instrument.  

Just as you wrote, the market for these is larger and they do not hold their value as much.  This is to be expected in nearly any economic model, and I very much doubt that it relates to Asian discrimination of any kind.  So I think we are in complete agreement about this.

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## varmonter

> It sounds like the OP had already narrowed down to two specific mandolins that are available in his area, and is not looking to buy used (or new) from outside his area.  In that scenario, the only deciding factor really should be which one he likes more. If he doesn't like the Collings as much as the Northfield, for example, why would he choose to buy it even if it holds more resale value down the road?


Thank you.
This is basically where i am at.in my op i stated i had played a bunch and settled on two..my search is far from over and i would really like an f5 if i could find one to play.gibsons tend to be inconsistant
So sight unplayed is out of the question.
The collings mf delux And the nf big mon were the nicest sounding/playing inst they had.the mf delux is a step down from the mf5. But i liked it bettef.
Thus spurring my original post question. Thanks for all the great points.
All great fodder to help me think.

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## JeffD

> This opinion has saved me money. If I'm thinking resale before buying, I don't buy. If I think I can't possibly live without it, I buy.
> .


This.

A Northfield, or a Collings, likely will be a joy to own, making you happy for the rest of your life. The tone, volume, playability, overall look and feel, are not improved by an increase value in the future, and cannot be diminished by a decrease in value. What somebody would offer you to purchase something you are not selling is not relevant, and has no impact. Well IMO anyway.

To sell my instruments would require circumstances so dire as to make the profit or loss irrelevant, and certainly circumstances that dire are not planned for in a mandolin purchase.

IMO, YMMV etc.

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## Austin Bob

> Thank you.
> This is basically where i am at.in my op i stated i had played a bunch and settled on two..my search is far from over and i would really like an f5 if i could find one to play.gibsons tend to be inconsistant


In the past this was true. But almost everyone who has tried the current crop of Gibsons seem to think they are of excellent quality.

If you really are interested, you might try giving The Mandolin Store a call. Worse case scenario is that you buy one and end up eating the return shipping, they do have a trial period. And it's much longer than just playing it an hour or so in the store. This way you get to try it out in your home without worrying about anyone else watching or listening.

I was in the same boat as you a few years back, and ended up buying online. Never thought I'd do so either, but if you don't, you severely limit your choices.

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9lbShellhamer

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## Jeff Mando

> To sell my instruments would require circumstances so dire as to make the profit or loss irrelevant, and certainly circumstances that dire are not planned for in a mandolin purchase.
> 
> IMO, YMMV etc.


I think this point is well-stated.  And, unfortunately, I have been in that situation before.  When you are selling a favorite instrument to pay a bill, it is hard to think in terms of "did I come out OK, profit-wise?"

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Austin Bob

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## JeffD

> And, unfortunately, I have been in that situation before.  When you are selling a favorite instrument to pay a bill, it is hard to think in terms of "did I come out OK, profit-wise?"


I have been through some very scratchy times, though thankfully not dire times.

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## AlpineDave

This is a great thread for anyone, especially anyone new, who's thinking of buying a high-end mandolin.

FWIW, the same conversation takes place over on the saxophone forum. Resale value can be a tricky thing, and as pointed out, is often unpredictable, being based on shifting demand (change of brand's status; sudden popularity or loss of popularity for the instrument; sudden shortage of raw materials; etc), as well as the general movement of an inflationary economy and, for imports, changing currency values.  About six years ago I bought a new Yanagisawa high end tenor saxophone sight unseen, and it was pricey then. It played (plays) like a dream and it's my most prized possession. Unbelievably, a new one now costs about $1,000 more than I paid for mine--which I attribute in part to currency issues that occurred before the dollar rose. However, perfectly fine vintage American horns could and can be had for a fraction of that Yani's cost, and with the advent of the internet and forums like these (another factor effecting resale), their resale value also continues to go up.

So future value of instruments is highly unpredictable. I think, therefore, if you are overly concerned about resale value, you should buy used. If determined to buy new, I think resale value is an imponderable.

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Jeff Mando

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## darrylicshon

I wouldn't worry about resale, buy the one you like the best , if you can afford it.

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## paul dirac

I'm finding it a bit frustrating all these respondents chiming in with their advice to "not worry about resale". Do you all feel that others should not worry about "Loar prices by decade"? Or "what's my XX worth?" Or "Tell me about your XX"? 

I can see that the original solicitation for opinions violates your own personal approach to purchasing mandolins, but if you feel the inquiry is within forum guidelines, why not keep your comments that don't directly respond to the prompt, to yourself? Or at least "Thank" the first respondent who expressed that sentiment?

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## AlpineDave

> I'm finding it a bit frustrating all these respondents chiming in with their advice to "not worry about resale". Do you all feel that others should not worry about "Loar prices by decade"? Or "what's my XX worth?" Or "Tell me about your XX"? 
> 
> I can see that the original solicitation for opinions violates your own personal approach to purchasing mandolins, but if you feel the inquiry is within forum guidelines, why not keep your comments that don't directly respond to the prompt, to yourself? Or at least "Thank" the first respondent who expressed that sentiment?


Sometimes, not necessarily in this thread, the question itself may indicate a wrong-headed approach. Doesn't that at least bear pointing out?

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## varmonter

> Sometimes, not necessarily in this thread, the question itself may indicate a wrong-headed approach. Doesn't that at least bear pointing out?


Ok
For the sake of trolling let me rephrase my question.
  I have about 5k i want to spend.
I played A new collings mf delux
And a used f5l fern.the sound volume
Playabity and overAll bling factor of each to my eyez ears and pocket are
Equal.which one should i buy.??(/bait)

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## 9lbShellhamer

> Ok
> For the sake of trolling let me rephrase my question.
>   I have about 5k i want to spend.
> I played A new collings mf delux
> And a used f5l fern.the sound volume
> Playabity and overAll bling factor of each to my eyez ears and pocket are
> Equal.which one should i buy.??(/bait)


Collings Vs Used Gibson. Which tone do you like? That's the one you should get.  :Grin: 

Also, which one is the most comfortable? The neck on the collings and the radiused fretboard probably make a big difference? Which one do you like? Which one has a tone you prefer?

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## varmonter

> Collings Vs Used Gibson. Which tone do you like? That's the one you should get. 
> 
> Also, which one is the most comfortable? The neck on the collings and the radiused fretboard probably make a big difference? Which one do you like? Which one has a tone you prefer?


  :Popcorn:

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## bigskygirl

> Ok
> For the sake of trolling let me rephrase my question.
>   I have about 5k i want to spend.
> I played A new collings mf delux
> And a used f5l fern.the sound volume
> Playabity and overAll bling factor of each to my eyez ears and pocket are
> Equal.which one should i buy.??(/bait)


The Northfield...

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Assuming you like the Collings and the Gibson equally, and each one is priced reasonably based on its new/ used value, then I would go for used Gibson, since it's already used and you can expect pretty much the same resale value (give and take) going forward.

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## sblock

Now I'm confused.  The title of this thread is about "Collings vs. Northfield," and yet the OP now writes (hard to tell with all the mis-spelling and strange capitalization, though) that he's comparing a new Collings MF Deluxe with a used Gibson F5L Fern for possible purchase!  So which is it? And what happened to the Northfield?!

Anyway, I'm with the school of thought that says that any difference in possible resale value between two used mandolins is not likely to be significant enough to worry about, and also subject to large variation.  Therefore, buy the mandolin you like playing the most.  But don't confuse new and used.  A new mandolin will likely depreciate to ~1/3rd of its new value simply for becoming used.  A used instrument will tend to hold more of its value, and might even go up a bit.

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DataNick

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## Eddie Sheehy

You can chew popcorn or get off the pot and fish...

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DataNick

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## paul dirac

> Sometimes, not necessarily in this thread, the question itself may indicate a wrong-headed approach. Doesn't that at least bear pointing out?


Last I'll say on this here, as any further highjack would simply be indulgent: alot of presumption and a bit of sanctimony in this statement. Again, if it's within forum guidelines, let conversations that don't pertain to you, continue without you. Or at most limit yourself to using "Thanks" as a +1 to show approval.

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## CES

Sight unseen, with consideration for resale, I'd personally buy the Collings. If, however, in playing both side by side I preferred the Northfield, I'd not hesitate to buy it instead. I pretty much have a personal ban on Gibson (Loar era instruments excluded, but well outside of my means) given their treatment of both customers with warranty claims (OK, perhaps custom shop folk instruments excluded from their larger corporate approach, though not always) and sometimes irrational (IMO) requirements from their dealers, as there's no reason to beat that horse (and it's not going got dissuade the "nothing beats a Gibson" crowd, anyway). 

I've been suffering from MAS of late, but refuse to buy something that's not significantly better than my Silverangel Econo model, and within my budget. I simply haven't found that mandolin yet. When I do, it'll be on again  :Wink:

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## varmonter

> Now I'm confused.  The title of this thread is about "Collings vs. Northfield," and yet the OP now writes (hard to tell with all the mis-spelling and strange capitalization, though) that he's comparing a new Collings MF Deluxe with a used Gibson F5L Fern for possible purchase!  So which is it? And what happened to the Northfield?!
> 
> Anyway, I'm with the school of thought that says that any difference in possible resale value between two used mandolins is not likely to be significant enough to worry about, and also subject to large variation.  Therefore, buy the mandolin you like playing the most.  But don't confuse new and used.  A new mandolin will likely depreciate to ~1/3rd of its new value simply for becoming used.  A used instrument will tend to hold more of its value, and might even go up a bit.


Sometimes I use my cell phone to respond...thus the odd formatting and misspelled  words..my apologies.
Let me try to clarify again for those thoughts of mine that may seem cloudy. 
  My decision to buy a higher end mandolin comes with much thought. I am not one to spend my hard earned or in this case windfall money emotionally. Being there were so many responses saying I should not buy an instrument on resale value,
I thought if I reworded my question hypothetically injecting a used Gibson fern perhaps folks would understand my reasoning.
Guess not.
  If one is faced with a decision ..one must try to weigh in all factors..I *understand* "buying the one that sounds the best to me"
and I *get* "buy the one that feels right to me"..But if narrowing the choice down to 2 instruments that "to me" sound equally
good and "feel" equally good  ...I feel the question of resale value valid in my mind and would like to consider it in my quest.
  I put the hypothetical Gibson in there to try and see if the resale value response would rear it's head (clement thanks)..sorry if it confused some.  (bigskygirl Great response...i see you caught my intent...ha) Eddie i am still considering yours.. patience while i make my decision... :Smile: 

  So if folks need more clarification just ask.....thanks

  Given a new northfield big mon $4499.00 and a new collings mf deluxe $5400.00 which do you suppose has a better resale value?

  And after all this i may just buy a used fern ...given i can get one for around the same price... :Popcorn:

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## Mandobar

I cannot imagine buying something that isn't quite what you want just because you might get an extra few bucks on resale.  The market is fickle right now, so who knows what resale will be like in 6 months, a year, or even five years.  

I will say this, not everyone or every dealer will take a Northfield in trade, but I have yet to meet one that would not take a Collings.

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DataNick

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## 9lbShellhamer

I really think you should call The Mandolin Store as well. Some of us have mentioned that they can work with you and you might be surprised what you could afford.  :Mandosmiley: 

Hmmnnnn... HOWEVER, Since you seem to be concerned with the resale option, and with the most logical decision, I might add to the talk. (Even though we all agree used is obviously the best option, since you automatically lose about 20%-30% with new _usually_. Buying a new mandolin you'll _probably_ take a 25% hit unless you buy smart. I bought my Northfield a week before the 500$ price jump to offset the depreciation. But now we're getting into speculation...) 

You should get a new Kentucky Km1050. Invest the rest of your $5k in the Fidelity 500 index fund. Then you are hedging your bet to the best of your ability. If it's all about function over form, and logic, the most logical decision is to buy a USED Northfield *F5S*, OR a Kentucky KM1050. That's the most "logical." 

Wait. I mispoke... If we're really talking LOGICAL, we shouldn't be talking F's at ALL. You should get the KM950. Definitely need to get an A style, as F styles are pretty much the picture of illogical. I love my A just as much as my F.

So, that's it. Get a KM950. Definitely the most logical. Or maybe check out a Morris A. I've heard good things about them too.

Or THIS. All tone, no frills. A really good mandolin. Perfectly logical.

(  :Popcorn:  )

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Mandoplumb

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## Mandobar

I believe I played both the instruments that the OP played side by side a few weeks back.  The Collings actually has a stronger voice, despite the Big Mon body being a bit larger.  That is, if these are the same two instruments that I played.

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## AlpineDave

> Last I'll say on this here, as any further highjack would simply be indulgent: alot of presumption and a bit of sanctimony in this statement. Again, if it's within forum guidelines, let conversations that don't pertain to you, continue without you. Or at most limit yourself to using "Thanks" as a +1 to show approval.


"Sometimes . . . not necessarily in this thread . . .  may indicate."

Any more qualifiers would have approached satire. The post was meant to ask a courteous question while making, I think, a valid point. No presumption or sanctimony that I'm aware of, and I apologize to the OP if such was perceived. In any case, with respect, why try to control third-hand the direction and flow of a forum thread, whose meanderings may be of some value to other members (I've asked myself the same type of question in general form as the OP is asking) as well as to the OP?

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Jill McAuley

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## pops1

I think the OP said he/she likes the sound and feel of each equally, therefore trying to help him/her make up his/her mind. All things being equal looking for something that might make one rise above the other.

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## Ancient

Buy what you like and want and enjoy it.

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## Eddie Sheehy

> Sometimes I use my cell phone to respond...thus the odd formatting and misspelled  words..my apologies.
> Let me try to clarify again for those thoughts of mine that may seem cloudy. 
>   My decision to buy a higher end mandolin comes with much thought. I am not one to spend my hard earned or in this case windfall money emotionally. Being there were so many responses saying I should not buy an instrument on resale value,
> I thought if I reworded my question hypothetically injecting a used Gibson fern perhaps folks would understand my reasoning.
> Guess not.
>   If one is faced with a decision ..one must try to weigh in all factors..I *understand* "buying the one that sounds the best to me"
> and I *get* "buy the one that feels right to me"..But if narrowing the choice down to 2 instruments that "to me" sound equally
> good and "feel" equally good  ...I feel the question of resale value valid in my mind and would like to consider it in my quest.
>   I put the hypothetical Gibson in there to try and see if the resale value response would rear it's head (clement thanks)..sorry if it confused some.  (bigskygirl Great response...i see you caught my intent...ha) Eddie i am still considering yours.. patience while i make my decision...
> ...


At those prices if I were buying "new" I'd have Steve Sorensen build me a Sprite or a Pacifica...

----------

Ron McMillan

----------


## Br1ck

I think this thread points out a fundamental difference in personality that I've noticed over the years. On one hand you have the person who buys an instrument hoping to keep it for a lifetime, and on the other the person who wants to enjoy the variety of many instruments over a number of years. For the second type, resale is important, as that dictates when the next instrument can be purchased.

The middle ground here is the individual upgrading incrementally with that goal in mind. If you plan on trading instruments for whichever reason, buying used is the best advice, providing you can live with buying what is available in terms of color, etc.

I can certainly understand falling for a new instrument because of a particular piece of wood though.

----------


## JKA

> Ok
> For the sake of trolling let me rephrase my question.
>   I have about 5k i want to spend.
> I played A new collings mf delux
> And a used f5l fern.the sound volume
> Playabity and overAll bling factor of each to my eyez ears and pocket are
> Equal.which one should i buy.??(/bait)


Mmm...the one you like best?

----------


## dwc

I think the fundamental problem isn't so much with wording or misunderstanding, but rather people simply don't know the answer to your question.  There are so many variables at work; it makes prediction of future value (and by extension depreciation) difficult, if not impossible.  

Some of the factors involved include projecting the perceived value of each brand an indeterminate number of years into the future, the future mandolin market including taste and perceptions, and the fact that Northfield is a different sort of company; something that we haven't seen in the mandolin market maybe ever, but at least since the early 1980's Kentucky Dawg mandolins.  

Let me explain.  Asian built mandolins are perceived as entry level, beginner or at best intermediate instrument by the majority of the mandolincafe community, Loars, Eastman, Kentucky, may not be exactly interchangeable, but they are certainly fungible.

Northfield mandolins are viewed (rightly or wrongly) as higher quality instruments, somewhat separate, and dare I say higher quality mandolins relative to other Asian made mandolins.  This is a new phenomenon.  Of course there are high end imports (Duff, Gilchrist, etc) but there haven't been high end Asian built mandolins that are viewed by the majority of the mandolin community as "on par" with American built mandolins since the early 1980's, so there is no model for how the Northfields will retain value.  There just isn't any data.  I suppose Sumi mandolins built under his own name would be an exception to my blanket statement, but that is one builder.  The vast majority of Asian built mandolins are in the sub $2k range.

If Northfield continues to be perceived as "on par" with American made mandolins, you could expect that they will hold value equal to American mandolins.  But we just can't know right now.  They are too new to have a tract record, and there are too many variables; any projections are essentially guesses.

----------

DataNick, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

Folkmusician.com, 

red7flag

----------


## Jeff Mando

Similarly, a former employer would ask the question:  Would you rather have one $5K instrument or several instruments adding up the that (approximate) amount?  (or whatever amount is being discussed)

There is no correct answer, but the answer you give says a lot about your decision making process.

----------


## JeffD

> I think this thread points out a fundamental difference in personality that I've noticed over the years. On one hand you have the person who buys an instrument hoping to keep it for a lifetime, and on the other the person who wants to enjoy the variety of many instruments over a number of years. For the second type, resale is important, as that dictates when the next instrument can be purchased..


Also there are many who boot strap up to some really decent instruments by buying and selling at a profit and buying again... I am not savvy enough for this strategy.

----------


## paul dirac

> "Sometimes . . . not necessarily in this thread . . .  may indicate."
> 
> Any more qualifiers would have approached satire. The post was meant to ask a courteous question while making, I think, a valid point. No presumption or sanctimony that I'm aware of, and I apologize to the OP if such was perceived. In any case, with respect, why try to control third-hand the direction and flow of a forum thread, whose meanderings may be of some value to other members (I've asked myself the same type of question in general form as the OP is asking) as well as to the OP?


Last I'll say on this here, as any further highjack would simply be indulgent

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## DataNick

Somebody say Northfield mandolins?

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

There's a lot of Gibsons out there signed by Danny Roberts... and Danny just got a Sorensen...

----------

DataNick

----------


## varmonter

> I think the OP said he/she likes the sound and feel of each equally, therefore trying to help him/her make up his/her mind. All things being equal looking for something that might make one rise above the other.


BINGO!!
  Not sure why this seem so difficult.
Thanks

----------


## varmonter

> I think the fundamental problem isn't so much with wording or misunderstanding, but rather people simply don't know the answer to your question.  There are so many variables at work; it makes prediction of future value (and by extension depreciation) difficult, if not impossible.  
> 
> Some of the factors involved include projecting the perceived value of each brand an indeterminate number of years into the future, the future mandolin market including taste and perceptions, and the fact that Northfield is a different sort of company; something that we haven't seen in the mandolin market maybe ever, but at least since the early 1980's Kentucky Dawg mandolins.  
> 
> Let me explain.  Asian built mandolins are perceived as entry level, beginner or at best intermediate instrument by the majority of the mandolincafe community, Loars, Eastman, Kentucky, may not be exactly interchangeable, but they are certainly fungible.
> 
> Northfield mandolins are viewed (rightly or wrongly) as higher quality instruments, somewhat separate, and dare I say higher quality mandolins relative to other Asian made mandolins.  This is a new phenomenon.  Of course there are high end imports (Duff, Gilchrist, etc) but there haven't been high end Asian built mandolins that are viewed by the majority of the mandolin community as "on par" with American built mandolins since the early 1980's, so there is no model for how the Northfields will retain value.  There just isn't any data.  I suppose Sumi mandolins built under his own name would be an exception to my blanket statement, but that is one builder.  The vast majority of Asian built mandolins are in the sub $2k range.
> 
> If Northfield continues to be perceived as "on par" with American made mandolins, you could expect that they will hold value equal to American mandolins.  But we just can't know right now.  They are too new to have a tract record, and there are too many variables; any projections are essentially guesses.


Thanks very well written explaination.
I am looking for owner opinions and thoughts on this to try and help my desicion process.certainly no litigeous attempt on my part.one must take all forum responses with a salt grain.
Usually averaging out a general feeling of the topic.

----------


## dwc

> Thanks very well written explaination.
> I am looking for owner opinions and thoughts on this to try and help my desicion process.certainly no litigeous attempt on my part.one must take all forum responses with a salt grain.
> Usually averaging out a general feeling of the topic.


I predict that the general feeling will be, to the extent that a consensus emerges at all, the Collings will hold its value better.  Should such a consensus develop, it will be based largely on the premise that American mandolins hold their value better than Asian mandolins.  

In addition, Collings have a very large lead on Northfield in terms of data.  Many more Collings have been sold, both new and used, and so we have a lot of data over a fairly long time frame that we can use to project the value of a Collings going forward.  Northfield has only been building since about 2009, so in the very small world of mandolins, there isn't as much data.  

People are more familiar with the Collings name; it has a very good track record for producing very good instruments, and historically Asian factory built mandolins have been inconsistent in quality.

Given all of that, the Collings certainly looks like a safer bet.  That being said, Northfield at least looks like it has a very different business model, building small shop mandolins overseas and then importing them.  So far, the reports have been pretty positive, and Northfield continues to produce more expensive mandolins and continues to try to compete with more well-known brands/luthiers.  If this trend continues, Northfields could conceivably appreciate.  This would, of course, require a very specific set of circumstances as most instruments depreciate immediately and continue to do so until eventually leveling off.

----------

DataNick

----------


## Mandobar

Has VW begun their buyback yet? I ask this as if you need to wait for these monies, your choice might be subject to the availability of these models.

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## MandoAblyss

Perhaps if you analyze and categorize your question, you can solve your dilemma. What are your priorities, from highest to lowest?

If tone is most important and they both sound great and equal, lower price wins.

Or maybe brand and reputation? Depending on the evaluator, Collings would have an edge because they make essentially perfect instruments and have stellar customer service for the rare outlier. BUT, I'd also be happy to own every Northfield I've ever seen and played and after hours of discussion with Adrian I believe the company has integrity and passion and stands 100% behind their product.

Ergonomics? That is up to you, but you will obviously notice every time you play so if one has an edge, there is your instrument.

"Value?" = (merits, subjectively yours)/price, if after much reflection you believe you couldn't tell the difference between them with eyes closed, lower price wins.

Resale? (Your original question, I've just rambled on above in case there were some unspoken factors...) A good starting point is each will lose 30% in transit to first owner. So, again, the lower priced instrument will lose less money.

"Build & bling?" Well, tone bars in Collings are tapered and smooth, Northfield not so much if you inspect with mirror. Does the interior matter to you? Can you find flaws in finish in one but not the other? Are binding and purfling styles important to you? Hardware matters to some more than others--I, for instance, prefer nickel with ebony buttons, and don't care about James vs. Allen tailpiece.

I'm just going to speculate that you will never know in  advance whether any instrument new or used will find its forever home with you, just isn't human nature given our fickleness. And you may not learn that in the first week or month or longer. Most folks who love wood and artisanship and tone and playing develop an addiction to instruments and searching for them; I don't mind mine, I believe better than money lost on gambling or substance abuse.

In my opinion you cannot go wrong with either Northfield or Collings (or Ellis or Kimble or Altman or Mowry or...). Buy the one you love and think will grow on you, which could come down to something as trivial yet profound as the headstock inlay.

If resale truly is your #1 priority, then you must wait until a used instrument that meets your desire becomes available. Both these makers show up all the time on this forum, Collings forum, Reverb, various dealers such as AMW, TME, Artisan, Elderly, Gryphon. If that 500-1000 bucks is essential, buy used.

Good luck! Hope your instrument finds you soon and you start playing.

----------


## varmonter

> Has VW begun their buyback yet? I ask this as if you need to wait for these monies, your choice might be subject to the availability of these models.


  I was told by vw to expect payment as early as october.yes my search will continue if these mandolins are sold.

----------


## McIrish

> I think American made instruments hold their value better than import instruments.


That may be true only because of bias based on the flood of inexpensive Asian made instruments. I don't view Northfield in that category at all. I own one and have played many others as well. Every single one that I played was fantastic. I also played a lot of Collings mandolins but none of them sounded like what I hear in my head. The Northfield Big Mon is an amazing instrument and the two Artist series I played were actually better, which I found hard to believe. I'm a believer. I don't care where they were made. Those guys making them know exactly what they are doing. Great instruments from Northfield are not a fluke; it's the norm. BTW, I have nothing against Collings. I have a 002H and an MT mandola. They are both great and see no need to ever look for anything to replace them. I do really like the MTO mandolins. For an oval hole sound, they are the best I've heard.

----------

almeriastrings, 

Johnny60

----------


## sblock

Has everyone -- included the OP -- failed to see the irony here?  He seems to be waiting on a windfall rebate from VW in order to buy a high-end mandolin, and he worries about the _resale value_ of the mandolin. But that windfall from VW is likely related to rebates associated with their emissions cheating scandal, which, of course, has now ruined the _resale value_ of their cars!!

Resale value for most things is easy to estimate crudely, but it's hard to predict accurately.  It seems silly, to me anyway, to base a mandolin purchase on the anticipated difference in resale value between a Collings and a Northfield (which is going to be small, and highly variable) unless you're a dealer trying to make money off mandolin sales, and have no intention of playing the instrument. Resale value also matters to some collectors who buy extremely rare, expensive instruments, like a Loar-signed F5.  But to players? Not so much.  

The best advice I've seen in this thread, if you're worrying about possibly selling down the line, is to buy a good instrument that's used.  Most of the depreciation occurs in going from new to used, as well all know.  After that, any differences in depreciation from one brand to the next are usually too minor -- and also too volatile! -- to be seriously concerned about.  So once again, the advice is to stop sweating the small stuff and *buy the mandolin that gives you the greatest joy to play*, and which you can manage to afford.  That's often the best sounding one, but ergonomic and some other considerations also come into play.  But resale value is near the bottom of that list for most players, and for good reason.

----------

DataNick

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## Jeff Mando

If you keep it a while, it probably won't matter, awhile being 20-30 years or more.  Then you're thinking like a musician rather than somebody pricing a used car.  Using vintage guitars as a good example, if you bought 10 name brand guitars (Martin, Fender, Gibson, etc.) in 1970 and sold them when the market peaked in 2007 -- you came out great!  If you bought the same guitars in 2007 and sold them today -- you would lose money, if you could even find buyers for them.  OTOH, if you bought the same guitars in 1970 and didn't sell them until now, you would still come out great!  Again, the irony...........

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## varmonter

> Has everyone -- included the OP -- failed to see the irony here?  He seems to be waiting on a windfall rebate from VW in order to buy a high-end mandolin, and he worries about the _resale value_ of the mandolin. But that windfall from VW is likely related to rebates associated with their emissions cheating scandal, which, of course, has now ruined the _resale value_ of their cars!!


Ha funny I had not looked at it that way..  good one..




> The best advice I've seen in this thread, if you're worrying about possibly selling down the line, is to buy a good instrument that's used. Most of the depreciation occurs in going from new to used, as well all know. After that, any differences in depreciation from one brand to the next are usually too minor -- and also too volatile! -- to be seriously concerned about. So once again, the advice is to stop sweating the small stuff and buy the mandolin that gives you the greatest joy to play, and which you can manage to afford. That's often the best sounding one, but ergonomic and some other considerations also come into play. But resale value is near the bottom of that list for most players, and for good reason.


   well this seems to be the norm of advise i am getting on this thread...
  Not to worry about it so much..as i doubt i will be alive in 30 yrs keeping it that long is just
 not on my mind. I have a 5k plus or minus  budget on this so I am thinking i may look for a used
 mandolin. more bang for the buck ..Maybe i can find a nice Gibson  fern for that price?? 
   I have some time yet to look around.

----------


## lflngpicker

I certainly don't think one could go wrong by purchasing either in great condition, used. It is apparent that Collings has a fairly consistently high resale value, particularly for the F models.  The Northfields come so highly recommended.  I would be pleased to purchase either.

----------


## Mandobar

Add some more $$ and buy this one:

http://themusicemporium.com/mandolin...ter-model-2002

probably the nicest MM I have played, and it came by the distressing naturally, and it sounds like it.

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## sblock

> Add some more $$ and buy this one:
> 
> http://themusicemporium.com/mandolin...ter-model-2002
> 
> probably the nicest MM I have played, and it came by the distressing naturally, and it sounds like it.


But that mandolin is $10,300, which is _beyond double_ the OP's budget of $5k!  So I don't think the advice to "add some more money" is very realistic.  Besides, if you're looking at the $10k+ pricepoint (and not $5k), then you can also consider an Ellis, a Wiens, a Red Diamond, or even an A-model from Nugget or Gilchrist.  

Among the F-models at the $5k pricepoint, the OP might want to consider any of these "factory" mandolins:

Northfield 
Collings
Weber
Gibson

but also a used F5 mandolin by one these smaller outfits, which can often be found for around $5000:

Duff
Daley
Mowry
Pomeroy
Elkhorn
BRW
Arches
Triggs
Randy Wood
Newsom
Ratliff


_There is so much to choose from in that price range!_

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## Eddie Sheehy

Gonna be hard to ignore Sorensen at the current reasoning...Sprite, Pacifica, FX

----------

DataNick

----------


## Mandobar

All of the mandolins you mention have different tonal qualities, despite their price points.  Some have better resale than others, and if that is a concern, then he will need to think twice about the choice.  There are so many choices, but only as many as are for sale (in terms of availability).  

As for the Gibson at TME, I think it's going to go fast.  I am quite tempted by it, and I generally don't care for that dry woody tone.  I threw it out there, because you never know.

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## Rex Hart

Collings...see how easy that was? A direct answer to a direct question.

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## varmonter

> Add some more $$ and buy this one:
> 
> http://themusicemporium.com/mandolin...ter-model-2002
> 
> probably the nicest MM I have played, and it came by the distressing naturally, and it sounds like it.


Sure...go ahead ...and tease ... :Frown:   ..I do this to myself...originally looked at 3k mandos and said for 5k i can do better..well for 7 k 
i could get a new mf5 ...well for 10 k i can buy this MM...well for 165k  i can buy a Loar...gees my wife is going to kill me.. :Smile:

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

Your wife is going to have to take a ticket...  :Wink:

----------


## JeffD

If you are thinking of resale value you have to think about what you would be selling it to buy? And then ask yourself why you would not be buying that now?

----------

Jeff Mando

----------


## Jeff Mando

Yep, the add more $$$ is a common response on this forum!   :Smile:  

Like cars in the old days, you chose from options you wanted to add.....nowadays every car seems to come "loaded" more or less.....nice to have, for sure, but often a $16K car "comes with" another $7K worth of stuff  -- making it a $23K car........ :Disbelief: 

Of course, we are used to it now, but I distinctly remember my father in the 60's arguing with the salesman about not needing power steering and being automatically charged for it..............at the time I think it was a $35 option! Those were the days!  :Cool:

----------


## A-board

Northfield was onsite at Swannanoa mando week in August. They received a good reception from those who played them and apparently sold all the instruments they brought. I know this doesn't speak to the resale value, but would the pros be willing to demo them if the instruments didn't make the grade?

----------

Jeff Mando

----------


## jlsmando

If we are really talking resale or investment .. then the USA builders - who actually make the instruments in house - have a clear advantage.   "Currently" it is agreed that Northfield are delivering very good mandos .. but they don't actually make them .. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? ) .. now if something were to happen with that team , then their reputation/consistancy could take a BIG hit .. i.e. for example perhaps that team could quit on Northfield and start their own brand .. or another builder could make them a better offer .. OR some of their top luthiers could quit .. you get my drift.  

Consistancy comes from having 100 % control (over the LONG TERM) of your workers/builders and your building supplies (i.e. tone woods).   The USA builders have that .. whereas the Northfields of the world have "less" of that .

----------


## Mandobar

Some endorsers are being compensated either monetarily or with instruments, so take that into consideration.

----------

DataNick

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## Folkmusician.com

> If we are really talking resale or investment .. then the USA builders


This makes perfect sense and would be my first thought as well,  but there is another factor at play.  Resale is almost always based on current street price of the same or similar model.   What has skewed things is that many of the imports (such as Northfield) have seen more dramatic price increases than US made instruments have. So even if your domestic mando is worth 20% less than the current new price, and your import is worth 30% less, you could easily sell your import for the price you paid for it new a few years back. There is a good chance that you can not do this with the Domestic mando because the price increases have been more inline with inflation.

This is why I believe it isn't easy to predict what is going to happen with values a few years down the Road.  Too many factors involved that have little to do with the desirability/quality/name recognition.

If we are talking about resale value a few months after purchase, I would be inclined to bet on the US made instrument, all else being equal.




> Consistancy comes from having 100 % control (over the LONG TERM) of your workers/builders and your building supplies (i.e. tone woods). The USA builders have that .. whereas the Northfields of the world have "less" of that .


We have plenty of history of US based company's changing for the worse.  Everything from Car and Motorcycle companies, to Instrument makers.  We have had plenty of examples of instrument makers here dropping the ball (for decades even). This can (and does) happen anywhere.

----------

9lbShellhamer

----------


## bigskygirl

> If we are really talking resale or investment .. then the USA builders - who actually make the instruments in house - have a clear advantage.   "Currently" it is agreed that Northfield are delivering very good mandos .. but they don't actually make them .. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? ) .. now if something were to happen with that team , then their reputation/consistancy could take a BIG hit .. i.e. for example perhaps that team could quit on Northfield and start their own brand .. or another builder could make them a better offer .. OR some of their top luthiers could quit .. you get my drift.  
> 
> Consistancy comes from having 100 % control (over the LONG TERM) of your workers/builders and your building supplies (i.e. tone woods).   The USA builders have that .. whereas the Northfields of the world have "less" of that .


I'm curious...how many in this "team" of contracted luthiers under exclusive contract....?

----------


## Folkmusician.com

> I'm curious...how many in this "team" of contracted luthiers under exclusive contract....?



http://www.northfieldinstruments.com/about-us/our-story

"Our team is made up of 5 people, each with his own strength and contribution to the finished instrument. 3 of us are craftsman and 2 of us specialize in set-up, design work and the other day-to-day business dealings. "

----------


## bigskygirl

> http://www.northfieldinstruments.com/about-us/our-story
> 
> "Our team is made up of 5 people, each with his own strength and contribution to the finished instrument. 3 of us are craftsman and 2 of us specialize in set-up, design work and the other day-to-day business dealings. "


So this team is 5 people...pretty sure at least 2 or 3 are in Michigan...doesn't seem very risky...heck many independent luthiers are a team of one.

----------


## Folkmusician.com

And many of our most desirable mandolins (currently in production), are made by said independent luthiers.   :Smile:

----------


## bigskygirl

> And many of our most desirable mandolins (currently in production), are made by said independent luthiers.


And lots of Gibson, Weber, and Collings made in factories by more than 5 people...

----------


## almeriastrings

> "Currently" it is agreed that Northfield are delivering very good mandos ._. but they don't actually make them ._. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? ) ..


That is not agreed at all. It in no way reflects the reality of the situation.

US Workshop:

http://www.northfieldinstruments.com...round-the-shop

Workshop in China:

http://www.northfieldinstruments.com/about-us/our-story

Note this, too "_Our company is owned together as a group, with each member investing and each member sharing in the rewards._"

They are a very small company... they build the mandolins themselves in two workshops... there seems to be some suggestion they are merely "outsourcing" the building to various independent luthiers. They are not.

----------

bigskygirl, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

sblock

----------


## sblock

> If we are really talking resale or investment .. then the USA builders - who actually make the instruments in house - have a clear advantage.   "Currently" it is agreed that Northfield are delivering very good mandos .. but they don't actually make them .. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? ) .. now if something were to happen with that team , then their reputation/consistancy could take a BIG hit .. i.e. for example perhaps that team could quit on Northfield and start their own brand .. or another builder could make them a better offer .. OR some of their top luthiers could quit .. you get my drift.  
> 
> Consistancy comes from having 100 % control (over the LONG TERM) of your workers/builders and your building supplies (i.e. tone woods).   The USA builders have that .. whereas the Northfields of the world have "less" of that .


This kind of jingoistic post is characterized by a very unwelcome level of prejudice and ignorance.  Ignorance, because (as others have pointed out), it is simply NOT TRUE that Northfield does not make its own mandolins.  And prejudice, because it assumes that all US builders are somehow endowed with building "consistancy" (it's spelled '_consistency_', by the way!) that comes from their supposedly having "100%" and "long term" control.  That's complete and utter nonsense, when you think about it, and it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.  Furthermore, no US manufacturer has ever had "complete control" over all the building supplies used for making a high-end mandolin.  The ebony used for fingerboards and bridges is imported.  The steel used for tuner and tailpieces is usually imported.  The shellac used for varnish finishes is imported.  And so on.

As for the possibility of top-end luthiers quitting (for example, to form their own companies), there are probably more examples of that happening here in the US than there are abroad!  Bruce Weber and Steve Carlson are good examples, having formerly worked for Gibson. Many of the great luthiers we know and respect used to work for other companies, in fact. 

Finally, the price of Northfields has been going up significantly faster over the last 5 years than Collings.  And that could change in the next five years.  It is simply not reasonable speculate about resale prices based solely on the country of manufacture.  There are too many other factors that make a bigger difference. 

Let's keep it real, and please stop 'dissing' off-shore companies that make an excellent product simply because they are not entirely American.   That smacks of politics, and these have no place on the Mandolin Cafe.  Judge an instrument on its sound quality.

----------

bigskygirl

----------


## George R. Lane

[QUOTE=sblock;1524406]As for the possibility of top-end luthiers quitting (for example, to form their own companies), there are probably more examples of that happening here in the US than there are abroad!  Bruce Weber and Steve Carlson are good examples, having formerly worked for Gibson. Many of the great luthiers we know and respect used to work for other companies, in fact. [QUOTE]


Steve and Bruce were building Flatirons in their shop, long before Gibson bought Flatiron.

----------


## Mandobar

OP, I saw a used 2016 Gibson F5 Custom on Mandolin Market (a new Facebook page) around your price range, and it's located in Peterborough, NH.  Dave Harvey signed.  NFI

----------


## sblock

> Steve and Bruce were building Flatirons in their shop, long before Gibson bought Flatiron.


Yes, but this observation does not alter the fact that they eventually quit Gibson to form their own competing company. Many of us have nice Weber mandolins, as a result! Jlsmando had been concerned about turnover in luthiers occurring in off-shore firms, leading to inconsistency.  My point is that it happens in US companies as well, and probably no less often.    And a certain inconsistency in instrument manufacture has certainly plagued Gibson over the years, as we all know here on the MC.  Otherwise, they'd have kept up the quality of the Lloyd Loar era (1922-1924), which they very obviously did not.

----------


## Mandobar

and while we were discussing both the Big Mon and MF deluxe the OP was considering have flown the coop.  I was at TME last week, and their mandolin inventory continues to dwindle down.  I played this MT and having owned quite a few of these, I have to say, this one was something special:

http://themusicemporium.com/mandolin...sheraton-brown

sometimes big things come with smaller price tags.

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

Apparently not an isolated incident and will have a bearing on resale value...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-finish-issues

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## 9lbShellhamer

> OP, I saw a used 2016 Gibson F5 Custom on Mandolin Market (a new Facebook page) around your price range, and it's located in Peterborough, NH.  Dave Harvey signed.  NFI


TMS has a brand new one _listed_ for only $500 more.

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## Scott Tichenor

> If we are really talking resale or investment .. then the USA builders - who actually make the instruments in house - have a clear advantage.   "Currently" it is agreed that Northfield are delivering very good mandos .. but they don't actually make them .. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? ) .. now if something were to happen with that team , then their reputation/consistancy could take a BIG hit .. i.e. for example perhaps that team could quit on Northfield and start their own brand .. or another builder could make them a better offer .. OR some of their top luthiers could quit .. you get my drift.  
> 
> Consistancy comes from having 100 % control (over the LONG TERM) of your workers/builders and your building supplies (i.e. tone woods).   The USA builders have that .. whereas the Northfields of the world have "less" of that .


The statement "Northfield don't actually make them .. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? )" and much of the rest of your post begs a description grounded in fact. 

It is not a "contracted" team. They are co-owners of the company, long-term career builders who have partnered together. The owner of Northfield speaks their language, the people in China actually play these instruments. The processing from start to finish involves both the Michigan and Chinese locations. The rest of this statement sort of melts down into a heap of nation chest-beating that is simply offensive, untrue or has no basis in fact.

The true details about the company are easy enough to find here and elsewhere on the internet.

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FLATROCK HILL, 

John Soper, 

NewKid, 

sblock

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## FLATROCK HILL

> The statement "Northfield don't actually make them .. they have a team of luthiers that do that overseas ( under exclusive contract ? )" and much of the rest of your post begs a description grounded in fact. 
> 
> It is not a "contracted" team. They are co-owners of the company, long-term career builders who have partnered together. The owner of Northfield speaks their language, the people in China actually play these instruments. The processing from start to finish involves both the Michigan and Chinese locations. The rest of this statement sort of melts down into a heap of nation chest-beating that is simply offensive, untrue or has no basis in fact.




Thanks once again Scott for laying out the Northfield business model. Although it can be easily found and is perfectly explained on the Northfield website, the facts are often overlooked or ignored. 

I believe it is a great company...wonderful people and a very high-quality line of products. I speak from the personal experience of Northfield ownership and several very pleasant dealings with Adrian and the boys. 
This praise comes from a nation chest-beater. :Smile:

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## Mandobar

> TMS has a brand new one _listed_ for only $500 more.


Asking and selling are two different things.  It also might be possible for the OP to play the mandolin before purchasing it.

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## varmonter

> OP, I saw a used 2016 Gibson F5 Custom on Mandolin Market (a new Facebook page) around your price range, and it's located in Peterborough, NH.  Dave Harvey signed.  NFI


yes thanks 
i contacted him but like posted above i can get a brand new one even cheaper...color doesn't matter as much to me. 
I still may drive down and play it if he's willing to drop his price...but i think he's firm on his profit margin... :Smile:

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## varmonter

> and while we were discussing both the Big Mon and MF deluxe the OP was considering have flown the coop.  I was at TME last week, and their mandolin inventory continues to dwindle down.  I played this MT and having owned quite a few of these, I have to say, this one was something special:
> 
> http://themusicemporium.com/mandolin...sheraton-brown
> 
> 
> sometimes big things come with smaller price tags.


Yes i noticed that as well...they will have more...collings is apparently pretty consistent in quality. Not sure about northfield..
still looking for a gibson in my area for around 5 k...Vw pays out sometime after the 18th of oct..Can't buy until then.
  I do think i want an f5 though...the mt is nice i am sure but not an f5.

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## JeffD

> Yes i noticed that as well...they will have more...collings is apparently pretty consistent in quality. Not sure about northfield...


Following the various praises for Northfields I have read I have not detected any reason to suspect the consistency of Northfields.

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## varmonter

i have read and heard good things about collings consistency...I have read only good reports on quality for northfield.
Not saying they are not consistent from inst to inst. Just havn't heard or read as much about that aspect.

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## almeriastrings

There are a lot more Collings mandolin than Northfield's out there, so that is possibly one reason you might not see as many comments... there are only a few hundred, in fact.

From what I have seen, the overall build quality and tonal properties are very good indeed on Northfield's. They do not match the "super precise" almost clinical fit and finish you see on Collings, however.

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DataNick

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## varmonter

I would have to agree.of the 2 i a/bd in boston the
Collings mf deluxe fit and finish was superior to
The big mon northfield.both tonally were great.
Different but great.

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## Paul Statman

Unless you're buying for the investment/resale turnaround, I say, "Just trust your own ears". You are the one who will be living with it. From what I have heard myself, and read here,they are very different tonally, so it's really down to your preference. Vanilla or chocolate, as it were.

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## Darren Bailey

If I'm buying either of them I'm looking to keep.  Maybe the resale value might be important to my kids.

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George R. Lane

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## barney 59

If I were a gypsy and could predict the future then I could buy an instrument based on it's future resale value and on that alone. I don't have any particular talent in that area and have marveled at how often things seem to have so much value up until the point that I actually have them! Mostly I find I'm the end of the food chain on most things I own and tend to keep things until I drive them into the ground and I figure I get my best value that way.  I'm going to make a prediction never the less. I foresee in the not to distant future the very real possibility that there will be some pretty hefty duties on foreign goods into the US and particularly from China (or was that Jina?). The stated numbers I have heard is 45%! That would bring the new Northfield purchase price pretty close to the price of a new equivalent Collins. If that were to come to pass and you were to purchase a Northfield now ------

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## varmonter

> If I were a gypsy and could predict the future then I could buy an instrument based on it's future resale value and on that alone. I don't have any particular talent in that area and have marveled at how often things seem to have so much value up until the point that I actually have them! Mostly I find I'm the end of the food chain on most things I own and tend to keep things until I drive them into the ground and I figure I get my best value that way.  I'm going to make a prediction never the less. I foresee in the not to distant future the very real possibility that there will be some pretty hefty duties on foreign goods into the US and particularly from China (or was that Jina?). The stated numbers I have heard is 45%! That would bring the new Northfield purchase price pretty close to the price of a new equivalent Collins. If that were to come to pass and you were to purchase a Northfield now ------


  great point...Carnac the magnificent i am not..Buying on speculation is why i stay out of the market.  But if that was to happen..hmm

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## Mandobar

If that were to happen as a five man shop they could easily move production to another location. The impact of those changes will be on the larger manufacturers who have large setups and numerous employees.

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