# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Epiphone MM-50E Professional acoustic/electric

## John Rosett

This looks interesting:
http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?...ollectionID=11

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## johnl

More info: http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=1806

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## Capt. E

"accurate in every detail to its historic ancestor" (the 1922 Loyd Loar F5) ?

I have yet to be impressed in the least by the Epi MM-50s, but the electronics look interesting and they may have a pretty good instrument when amplified. Same headstock inlay as they put on the "Masterbilt" guitars; the vintage Epiphone torch.

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## Folkmusician.com

That is a cool looking pickup system.  I wonder if Shadow will make something similar available for retail? 

I was not aware of Lloyd Loar using laminated back and sides on his mandolins.  :Smile:

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## MandoNicity

Interesting electronics yes, but how does that floating pickup stick to the top board?  One of the anchors for the electronic pick gurad looks to be anchored on the bridge also.  I forsee problems with that, but interesting, yes.

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## jefflester

Seems like it would have been worth a new model #/name.

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## jefflester

> Interesting electronics yes, but how does that floating pickup stick to the top board?


It doesn't, that's why it's floating, and why it can slide. It's attached to the pickguard. Against the soundboard it looks like it rests with a felt pad or similar.

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## Folkmusician.com

Here it is:
http://www.shadow-electronics.com/we...tml?lang_id=2)

Apparently they are making a mando version now.   :Smile: 
I don't see any mention of adjustable output per string on the guitar versions.

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## mandroid

The whole  elevated pick guard and coin battery preamp, powered assembly, is interesting ,
 If only to add to a different   mandolin...  + if only the whole electronics package is not ca-ca. 
 looks are fleeting..  hands on testers wanted to take one for the team ... 

one of those Maple front back and side jobs would be fine as its a magnetic pickup,
 but an acoustic mix combination may want a proper resonant top, 
then you can blend in out in front mini-mic   ,  and/or perhaps, a soundboard attached transducer 
and have a decent sound-color palette to blend.

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## Big Joe

The pickup may or may not be cool...I've not heard one.  However, the MM50 Epiphone may be many things, but professional it is not.  Not a bad mandolin for entry level F models, but not great mandolins and does not compare to the better brands in the same price range.  Just my opinion.

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## allenhopkins

> ...one of those Maple front back and side jobs would be fine as its a magnetic pickup,
>  but an acoustic mix combination may want a proper resonant top...


The blurb says it has a "solid Spruce top," apparently laminated maple back & sides.  Doesn't say the top's carved, so I imagine it's pressed.  IMHO the pickup's the whole deal with this one; otherwise you have another medium-low-end Asian import of no great interest.  If you're playing high-volume-amplified, but want to look like Bill Monroe's rockin' distant great-nephew or something, an F-style with a decent magnetic pickup may be just the prescription.  Again, I wish Gibson would stop invoking their long heritage of great mandolins, to push the latest brainchild of their mass marketing geniuses.  From a fair distance, the MM-50E has the same silhouette as a "real" Gibson F-5.  But its "historic ancestor" didn't have a pressed top, plywood back and sides, and a pickup stuck to its pickguard.  If that's being "accurate in every detail," I'm sorely confused.

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## Tim2723

I am always a little suspicious of any product advertised as 'professional'.  Professionals seldom need to be told what they should buy to be professionals.

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## Capt. E

You are right that the electronics is the only thing new here. Gibson has serious problems with its Epiphone brand. They would be better off producing a "Masterbilt" version with carved top and all solid back and sides. I personally don't know why anyone would buy a new Epiphone mandolin except for the name when so many superior instruments are available at the same price or lower.

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## mandroid

Maybe on something  with a squared off  straight fretboard end ,,  a better integrated location , 
don't need the Mozzy pitch notes anyhow.

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## devilsbox

I don't know much of anything about electric instruments. Is this supposed to be used with a regular amp and speakers? It isn't a stand alone system is it? Someone explain what we have here please. I don't want one, just trying to understand what it is. Thanks!

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## Folkmusician.com

This is a magnetic pickup with a preamp integrated into the pickguard. It should put out a line level signal to input into an amp, mixer, etc. There must be a 1/4" jack on the mando somewhere.

 I don't know about this paticular system, but manetic pickups do have a lot of potential.  I have used a Sunrise magnetic for guitar for somewhere around 15 years. It sounds suprisingly good. I hunted one down after repeatedly seeing them in use by major touring artists that were not endorsing them.

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## jefflester

> The blurb says it has a "solid Spruce top," apparently laminated maple back & sides.  Doesn't say the top's carved, so I imagine it's pressed....  But its "historic ancestor" didn't have a pressed top, plywood back and sides, and a pickup stuck to its pickguard.  If that's being "accurate in every detail," I'm sorely confused.


It does say the top is carved. 

"The MM-50E Professional features classic "F" style specifications including a carved, solid Spruce top with traditional flame maple back, sides and neck. "

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## rico mando

any body know the price?

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## John Rosett

> This is a magnetic pickup with a preamp integrated into the pickguard. It should put out a line level signal to input into an amp, mixer, etc. There must be a 1/4" jack on the mando somewhere.
> 
>  I don't know about this paticular system, but manetic pickups do have a lot of potential.  I have used a Sunrise magnetic for guitar for somewhere around 15 years. It sounds suprisingly good. I hunted one down after repeatedly seeing them in use by major touring artists that were not endorsing them.


I'm really interested in the Shadow system on this Epiphone mandolin for the same reason. After trying some piezo pickups on my archtop guitar that just didn't work very well, I got a floating magnetic pickup and mounted it on the end of the fingerboard, and it sounds great. I hope they do make this pickup system available.

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## Earl Gamage

> It does say the top is carved. 
> 
> "The MM-50E Professional features classic "F" style specifications including a carved, solid Spruce top with traditional flame maple back, sides and neck. "


That would lead me to believe it's wood.  If it's laminate they should say so.  My guess is the marketing person on the project got over enthused.

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## Tim2723

Somebody chime in on this please, but I'm very sure I've seen a pickup system with the controls in the pick guard somewhere.  Where was that?  I'm absolutely certain I've seen volume and tone controls on the edge of the guard.

I've played a number of acoustic mandolins with magnetic pickups added in one way or another.  They all sounded like electric mandolins (not a bad thing), but none of them were acoustic electrics to me.  This kind of set up might as well be incorporated into a solid body.

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## Big Joe

The MM50 is a solid wood, but not necessarily carved.  Just because it is solid does not mean it is any good.  They are a step below the Flatiron that was made in China, but I don't think they are building the MM50 in thier own factory anymore.  I believe they are built under contract by the lowest bidder.  Lots of pacrim mandos are made that way.

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## mrmando

> That would lead me to believe it's wood.  If it's laminate they should say so.


The key phrase here is "lead me to believe." This is puffery, adspeak, marketing copy. Rather than letting yourself be led to believe, you should assume the worst. If it doesn't say "carved," assume it's pressed. If it doesn't say "solid," assume it's laminated. That way, if it does turn out to be solid, you'll be pleasantly surprised. 

The Weber Maverick e-mando has controls built into the pickguard, and so do some of Paul Lestock's Arrow jazz mandolins. I would not buy the MM50E just because it has a cool pickup system, but I will try one out if I come across it. I know this is wishful thinking, but it would be nice to see this pickup arrangement on the MandoBird. If there's a mandolin that needs a built-in EQ for individual pickup poles, the MandoBird is it.

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## allenhopkins

> It does say the top is carved. 
> 
> "The MM-50E Professional features classic "F" style specifications including a carved, solid Spruce top with traditional flame maple back, sides and neck. "


You're right, Jeff; I didn't click on the "more information" link, was going by what was on the first page, where it just said "solid Sitka spruce."  _Mea culpa._

On the other hand, looking at the second page language, how does _"a Rosewood fingerboard and bridge pay tribute to Lloyd Loar's original "F" style design"_?  First, the "F-style design" was Orville Gibson's, not Loar's; second, I think Loar's instruments used ebony, not rosewood. Of course, Loar did lengthen and raise the fingerboard, but ---

Probably hopeless, and close to "Gibson bashing," to sharpshoot some advertising copywriter for misstating F-5 history, but I do get a bit peeved when the flacks keep evoking the admirable history of Gibson F-style mandolins, to gild the latest product of a quasi-anonymous Asian factory with "Epiphone" on the headstock.* Giving credit where it's due, the recent Epiphone "Masterbilt" guitar "reissues" have gotten general praise, and one keeps hoping for a similar effort in the mandolin area.  A reissue of some of the great old *Epiphone* mandolins would really be interesting --- as opposed to another iteration of the F-style silhouette, this time with a jazzy new pickup.  Just a bit grouchy today, that's all...

* Later: I should clarify that it's the *product* (mandolin), not the *factory,* that has "Epiphone on the headstock."  Jeez, how'd it get to be 2 a.m.?

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## billkilpatrick

i so want them to do right on this model - "e" or otherwise.  i own a loar 600 and from what i've gathered here, the comparable loar and kentucky models are streets ahead in every way.  why ... how is it ... who do they give the contract to ... that causes gibson to keep missing the mark?

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## Big Joe

The Master Built series guitars were excellent guitars when they were first introduced,and if you have one they are still good guitars.  They were built in factories controlled by Epiphone in conjunction with the Chinese government allowed them to produce a product of great quality for the money.  I understand they no longer have their own factories so are having to bid the production out to companies like Samick.  These instruments are built to the specifications of the importing company, but the control and quality are not subject to the contractor not the importer.  While the instruments are usually quite solid, they are not the same as the ones built under Epiphone's direct control.  Had the mandolins been built with the same oversight and control as the Masterbuilt guitars they would have been much better. 

 The Flatiron was built that way but was not much of a step above the Epiphone MM50.  Not bad, but not near the product that Eastman, Kentucky, or the Loar have been able to do.  A lot of this has to do with the amount of hand carving, size of the shop doing the work, who is overseeing production, and the kind of finish used.  The Epiphone and Flatiron used a poly finish.  That is equivalent to dipping the instrument in plastic before shipping.  Buffs great, looks great, can be used as a coaster when not playing....oh...maybe I've gone a bit far, but not much  :Smile:  .

Economic times will cause some companies to move forward and try to become great.  It is a very risky move, but can help them to become established properly and can make them really move forward when the market improves.  Other companies may have to retreat and do what they have to for survival.  Often the real important part of that companies product will be revealed in these times.  I do applaud both Kentucky and the Loar for moving forward in spite of the tough times for instrument builders.  On the other hand, the Big G and its subsidiaries had to back up and focus on where their money comes from.  Who will win in the long run?  Who knows, but it certainly allows competition to become established rather than swallowed up.  It makes for an interesting time in history.

We cannot separate the economic times or political upheavals from the past or future history of our instruments.  In these times some will prosper and some will fade.  That has always been the case.  How will things wash out?  Who knows.  Grab some popcorn and keep an eye on the future.  At the very least it will be interesting.  There are always lots of rumors about some of the larger companies and they are fun for speculation, but only time will tell what the future of any of us may be.

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## allenhopkins

Joe, I *love* your take-the-long-view perspective on the instrument market.  Our trade relationship with China is going to be one of the most crucial and and difficult areas in the next few decades, I believe.  And now a great deal of mandolin production is tied up with that relationship.  There have been amazing changes in the location of instrument manufacturing over the 40+ years I've been playing -- US to Japan to Korea to China --  and the fact is now that we have almost no alternative to purchasing a Chinese-made instrument in the low- to mid-range.  The Chinese government is extremely controlling of China's industrial production, as well as of China's currency values, and will administer them in the best interests of China's overall foreign policy.  We, on the other hand, tend to let individual firms make decisions about where and how they produce and market their products; a better, more flexible system, probably, but as Google is finding out, even a large American company is at a disadvantage dealing with a massive government that has a strong ideological bias.

I have worried a bit about how so many of our larger instrument firms, have put a huge portion of their eggs in the Chinese basket.  We may well be extremely thankful for companies like Weber, Collings, Breedlove, Big Muddy etc., who have retained manufacturing in the US.  On the other hand, it's economically untenable, apparently, to produce a mandolin like the low-end Kentuckies or Rovers, in America -- at least not at an affordable price.

I may not be around to see the next iteration of instrument manufacturing and marketing changes.  Wouldn't surprise me if Eastern Europe got more prominent as a location for student-grade instrument production.  And we also have to remember that, as important as mandolin making and marketing is to us, it's a minor segment of the entire instrument market, which in turn is a minor segment of the entire world trade picture.  Look at what's going on with Toyota, and how it affects the economies of two of the major industrialized countries.  A recall of Epiphone MM-50's would hardly have the same impact.

I really do wish Gibson the best of luck, and it does concern me that they're contracting out for Chinese production, rather than retaining their own facilities.  I have had great recent experiences with Eastman and Gold Tone instruments, and I think that there is wonderful workmanship available in China.  There's also a whole lot of generic mass production, some good, some not.  Gibson has a great history of high-quality manufacturing, and I hope they remember that and make the right quality decisions.

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## wsugai

> If it doesn't say "carved," assume it's pressed. If it doesn't say "solid," assume it's laminated. That way, if it does turn out to be solid, you'll be pleasantly surprised.


Yes, I agree with Martin. When writing ad copy, you emphasize the positive ("carved spruce top", "solid maple back and sides") and be vague on the shortcomings ("solid spruce top", when it's pressed rather than carved, "maple back and sides", when they're laminated rather than solid). Remember, ad copy is meant to sell things, so it's important to be wary.

I have a soft spot for Epiphones (related to my vintage archtop days), but I think one of the most unforgiveable things that Gibson ever did was to appropriate the name for their imported stuff.  Better to have just discontinued the line.  Norlin and Rockwell, what good can you say about companies like these?

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## rico mando

they should just sell the pick up/pick guard separately so you can put them on a better instrument or at least one you already own.

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## mrmando

Well, if you can get hold of Paul Lestock, who uses a very similar pickup arrangement, you can ask who his supplier is.

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## mandroid

That may be a challenge , Arrow Guitars domain name is open,( i got a redirect) and the builders list on this site has nothing under his name..

so It may be a direct with Shadow company  path  of acquisition, assuming the production is not an exclusive  as the parts run is spoken for to put on those Epi Fs for a while..  size matters,  OEM palette of cases sales usually get priority over one single item.

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## mrmando

Well, I know how to reach Paul. I'll ask him.

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## Garyinboston

i have tried to check this Mando out on Epiphone's site but can't seem to get on.

Is there any place else I can see this Mando?

Gay

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## Roger Kunkel

> they should just sell the pick up/pick guard separately so you can put them on a better instrument or at least one you already own.


And here it is..

http://www.shadow-electronics.com/ca...g=32&lang_id=1

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## Ben Milne

Based on Lloyd Roar's original design.

Since they are invoking 100 years of mandolin building, you would have thought that the "traditional flamed maple back and sides" could be traditionally solid/carved.

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## Capt. E

> Joe, I *love* your take-the-long-view perspective on the instrument market.  Our trade relationship with China is going to be one of the most crucial and and difficult areas in the next few decades... the fact is now that we have almost no alternative to purchasing a Chinese-made instrument in the low- to mid-range...
> 
> I have worried a bit about how so many of our larger instrument firms, have put a huge portion of their eggs in the Chinese basket.  We may well be extremely thankful for companies like Weber, Collings, Breedlove, Big Muddy etc., who have retained manufacturing in the US.  On the other hand, it's economically untenable, apparently, to produce a mandolin like the low-end Kentuckies or Rovers, in America -- at least not at an affordable price....


There is a very interesting article in a recent issue of "Wired" magazine about the changes in Chinese manufacturing.  Apparently, if you do not have the ability to utilize the entire production capacity of a single factory, you are not going to get the quality control and production efficiency that is needed. This has resulted in many smaller manufacturer leaving China and returning to the US. One company had so many problems with defective product, slow shipping, and increased shipping cost they were able to produce domestically at a 50% higher per unit cost and make MORE money than they did manufacturing in China.  I do not accept that it is economically untenable to produce in the US and compete with Chinese made products. Weber, Collings, etc does it every day. If Gibson really wanted to, they could produce everything domestically and do quite well. It would require a change in the mind-set of their executives. Last year's flood is an opportunity to build a new production facility and move it ALL home.

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## Lukas J

For what it's worth, I picked one up unplugged in a music store and was really impressed with its playability and sound. As a college musician of small means, I play what I can afford at the present time, so my main experience with mandolin is my Epiphone MM-30 and my dad's MM-50. with that being said, this new model, compared to the original MM-50, sounds like a different instrument. Had it been sold for the original price and without any electronics, I would have bought it. As it is, I'm still in the market for a $500-700 more playable, dependable instrument, but an acoustic one.

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## CES

> The key phrase here is "lead me to believe." This is puffery, adspeak, marketing copy. Rather than letting yourself be led to believe, you should assume the worst. If it doesn't say "carved," assume it's pressed. If it doesn't say "solid," assume it's laminated. That way, if it does turn out to be solid, you'll be pleasantly surprised. 
> 
> The Weber Maverick e-mando has controls built into the pickguard, and so do some of Paul Lestock's Arrow jazz mandolins. I would not buy the MM50E just because it has a cool pickup system, but I will try one out if I come across it. I know this is wishful thinking, but it would be nice to see this pickup arrangement on the MandoBird. If there's a mandolin that needs a built-in EQ for individual pickup poles, the MandoBird is it.


Here, here!!  (on both paragraphs)

I love my Mandobird for what it is, but even I want to gut/replace the electronics...and I'm just playing it for fun and not because I need it to perform professionally...

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## Fran

Very possibly a Samick instrument:
http://www.gregbennettguitars.com/mf1.html

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