# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Ukuleles in Blue Grass ????

## Taylor and Tenor

I know this is a mandolin message board and the website is devoted to mandolins and similar instruments as I have posted a number of messages here.

However, I have a question.  Have you ever seen a ukulele (baritone) being played in a Blue Grass or Old Time music setting or venues?

My reason for asking is quite simple.  I am having a hell of a time with my thumb where holding a pick and playing mandolin tunes has become quite painful.  

So I bought a ukulele which I play with my index finger which allows me to continue to play and eliminates most of the finger discomfort.  

Would a ukulele be welcome at your session?

Look forward to your input.

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## Bruce Evans

A baritone ukulele is tuned exactly the same as the top four strings of a guitar, so if you strumming on the after beat -the way a guitar player would on the "chuck' of the "boom-chuck" - you are in the same rhythmic pattern and range. 

Would the bluegrass police get on you for playing your bari uke?
Probably.

Would I or most of the people in the jams I go to care?
Not a bit.

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## AlanN

I agree with Bruce. Honestly, I can't ever recall jamming with a uke present. I would think it would be tough to hear.

If you love to play, but are having physical difficulties holding onto a pick, go for it. And if someone requests that Tiny Tim tune, beat them over the head with the uke.

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## Jim Garber

> However, I have a question.  Have you ever seen a ukulele (baritone) being played in a Blue Grass or Old Time music setting or venues?


Bluegrass, no. Old time would be possible. There have been a number of folks who have played banjo ukes in old time music. With wooden ukes you might have a hard time hearing yourself but it would not be a problem if you showed up at a jam with one.

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## Oggy

We actually have a banjo uke instead of a mandolin in our bluegrass band, works just fine, keeps the backbeat (but of course, we're not a traditional kind of bluegrass band). 

Why? The uke player, started out with a wooden ukulele, couldn't be heard, so he upgraded to a banjo uke. When we've tried the banjo uke and a mandolin together they kind of fight over each other too much and they fill the same purpose... so I've chosen to play the fiddle instead and it gives a better overall sound.

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## catmandu2

> I know this is a mandolin message board and the website is devoted to mandolins...


Ya know, we _do_ have a uke group here too.. :Wink:  
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117

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## foldedpath

A uke and harmonica player sometimes shows up at local OldTime/Folk jams. I can hear his uke if I'm sitting right next to him, or if it's a very small circle of players. Once the fiddlers show up though, and the usual wall-of-guitars and/or a banjo, it gets quickly buried in the mix. The main problem isn't backup though, it's that the uke is too quiet for kicking off a tune. Especially if it's a tune the group isn't very familiar with (which is most of what this guy knows; obscure Civil War-era stuff). So he pulls out his harmonica when his turn comes around to kick off a tune. Harmonica for leading tunes, uke for backup. Not a bad combination, especially since it means he's not playing harmonica on every tune.  :Wink:  A little bit of harmonica goes a long way, I think.

The uke is such an innocuous instrument that I think it would be welcome, if not contributing all that much, at most OldTime and Folk jams. I don't know about Bluegrass. In addition to the volume problem, you're fighting some cultural issues there with accepted vs. non-accepted instruments in the tradition.

P.S. I second the suggestion of looking into a banjo uke. Or how about a metal body resonator uke? Those look cool, and they're louder.

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## Taylor and Tenor

Thank you for your replies.

If anyone requests "Tip-toe through the tulips" or asks me if I am still married to "Miss Vicki", I promise to beat them senseless with my solid body 4 string octave mandolin - just kidding.

A banjo ukulele sounds like a viable option or perhaps use an external mic pick-up and a small amplifier at certain sessions.

BTW, check out Brittina Pavia on YouTube sometime - she is an amazing ukulele player.

Thanks again.

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## mandroid

I'd think it a bit tougher to do much in the way of  melody lines , without having a pick to move ..  up and down stroke, 
have you tried any thumb-flatpicks, like Herco, they are useful,  then your grip against the index finger is steadying the pick, but the loop around your thumb is holding it in position.

alternatively  using perhaps index and middle fingers, to get the 1,2,3,4 ,5,6,7,8 to the measure that is common to lots of melodies, fiddle tunes, and such.

of course if your Index fingernail is strong enough you can always substitute it, an 'alaska pick' is essentially a fingernail like pick you slip on a finger , the opposite side of the finger  than the normal fingerpick, [which is useful just for upstrokes].

but we are an welcoming gang..   :Smile: 

At our get together, one who comes regularly, is an elderly Woman ..
 who walks with a short shuffle , and brings her guitar , though her ability to change chord fingerings , is slow, and she brushes her index finger over just a couple strings ,  But is welcome .. 
has 2~ or so, songs out of a stack of songbooks she always brings, that she opens onto a music stand  brought for the purpose  ,
 so I gave her a trolley backpack to tow the books in with out needing to lift  and carry them..

Moosically,  :Wink:  needless to say, It's not a high powered Jam.

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## Bruce Evans

The Tiptoe thing always happens sooner or later in ukulele threads. I am a "more often and better" ukulele player than I am a mandolin player. If you ask me to play Tiptoe Through the Tulips, ya know what you are going to get?



Tiptoe Through the Tulips. It's a very nice song. It is only Tiny Tim's legacy that has cast it in a bad light.

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## acousticphd

> Have you ever seen a ukulele (baritone) being played in a Blue Grass or Old Time music setting or venues?


At Old Time gatherings, definitely.  And by OT, I would include those genres of old-time songs (jazz, blues, ragtime).  There is a accomplished uke player I have heard at a TN OT gathering (Breaking up Winter, 1st weekend in March near Lebanon, TN).  He plays soprano ukes.  In a smaller jam of 4-5 players, here is something about the uke's timbre that makes it easily heard as a rhythm instrument.

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## Tripp Johnson

I think a uke, esp. a banjo uke with the added volume can work fine in Old Time.

Every once in a while I'll bring an old Harmony uke to our OT jam and plunk on it for fun. Our jam is usually about 10 - 15 folks with at least 4 and usually more like 6 or more fiddles, so I don't play it too often there. 

I jammed at Clifftop with a banjo uke player who was a monster!!!  Every year I would see him strolling around jamming with any and everybody and when I finallly picked with him it was loads of fun. 

John Herrmann sometimes plays uke and I certainly wouldn't tell him that he shouldn't!

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## John Rosett

Benny Martin played some fine clawhammer style uke on John Hartford's "Slumberin' on the Cumberland" album.

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## Jim MacDaniel

> ...If anyone requests "Tip-toe through the tulips" or asks me if I am still married to "Miss Vicki", I promise to beat them senseless with my solid body 4 string octave mandolin...


Why don't you use their banjo instead?  :Wink:

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## Pete Hicks

I wouldn't dive into a bluegrass jam with the uke unless I had a death wish.  The uke fits in very nicely with cowboy music, though. We use a baritone uke in our cowboy band. I wonder if mandos, fiddles and banjos are welcome at uke jams.

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## Elliot Luber

Tiny Tim is (was) to Ukelele as Bob Dylan is to Harmonica.

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## CES

Please read beyond the coming "not funny" joke in poor taste:

Anybody seen the "Ain't no part of Nuthin'" thread...

Just sayin'...

Unfortunately, there are places where you'd get that response.  The Uke, though, is hot right now.  I have tremendous respect for anyone who can play (or at least their ability), and stink myself, and so certainly wouldn't tell a Uke player to leave my campfire even if they weren't that good.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a bluegrass "traditionalist" who would accept a Uke in a FORMAL BG setting without at least a little protestation, but I also think that, for the most part, musicians are a reasonably accepting bunch.  If your usual jamming buddies understand your thumb issue they may be perfectly accepting.  You may need a resonator or banjo-uke to be heard above the din, but that's a problem with mando sometimes, too.  And, there's no reason you can't pick leads on a uke just as easily...there's just maybe the volume issue.

Anyway, I say play what you want, and if you can't play what you want play what you can...there are plenty of folks out there who'll be willing to make music with you either way.  To heck with the rest of 'em.

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## des mando

no actualy as strange as tiny tim was he was quite a virtuoso on uke. dylan is  simple at best on harp while tim could cover hendrix and about anything else

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## allenhopkins

From extended discussions on the *Flea Market Music bulletin board,* I've found the consensus seems to be that Herbert Khaury was a very accomplished musician who found that his best chance to make money with his ukelele was as a novelty act, hence the mincing, falsetto-singing "Tiny Tim" persona.  Later in his career he made some recordings with Brave Combo that included his "normal" baritone voice (still kinda weird, though).  Ukulele players are understandably ambivalent about him, admiring his skill but uncomfortable with the non-serious stereotype that he gave to the instrument.  They tend to prefer Jake Shimabukuro...

Re: orginal question -- really depends on the jam.  Baritone ukulele can be a very respectable rhythm and vocal-accompaniment instrument.  It sounds more like a nylon-string guitar than like a soprano uke.  But some bluegrass get-togethers expect (and may enforce!) a stylistic orthodoxy that excludes any instruments outside the IBMA guidelines: mandolin, acoustic guitar, 5-string banjo, fiddle, Dobro and bass.  Those walking in with another instruments may get the ol' fish-eye; "Jim n Virginia" mentions non-conforming instruments being (politely?) asked to leave a BG jam he frequents.  So, as they say, it depends...

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## ron4strings

hi cape cod struggler, i play ukulele's of all types and play with northern nevada bluegrass asso. club in reno, nevada. i play mostly bluegrass and western on my baritone uke. you can get book of bluegrass for ukulele's from Fred Sokollow, at jumpin jim's ukulele song books. 1 also converted my  4 string banjo with tenor guitar strings,(same tunning as baritone), sounds great! good luck.  ron4strings

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## journeybear

Every bluegrass festival I have ever gone to in Hawaii was filled with ukulele-playing enthusiasts. The fact that I have never actually gone to one should not deter you in the least.

The low volume might pose a problem for you. As was mentioned before, ''innocuous'' is a pretty fair adjective. If you can't be heard, you can't bother anyone. But this begs the question, why bother? You are probably not going to be able to take a lead on a fast song, and you will probably be drowned out as a rhythm instrument, or just blend into the din at best. So you have an uphill climb, but perhaps a challenge is just what you need to succeed. I think working out a few things at home, trying to find ways to make it work, would be a good idea before just jumping in.

And if anyone makes snide remarks, remind them that Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and even Jimi Hendrix started out on baritone uke. OK, None of them are bluegrassers, but all accomplished musicians.

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## mandroid

OR .. George Harrison, apparently was a Ukelele evangelist..
 in his post Beatles life ..

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## mandroid

Any how You are welcome to join the next Tenor Guitar Gathering out here. in 013. 

I showed up with my pocket Mandolin, and hung out..

 seems the Pub jams in Ireland , were less OCD, than the  replica sessions in the states..
 but I was well west of Dublin or Belfast..

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## Ivan Kelsall

I love Uke & can still play one,although i currently don't own one.To put a Uke in a Bluegrass setting would surely be stretching it's credibility !.Ultimately,there's no reason why you can't put any instrument in a Bluegrass line-up,but would a Trombone really look the part ?. On the other hand would a Banjo really fit into a 'proper' orchestral setting as part of the string section ?. It could be done,but _should_ one do it ?,
                                             Ivan :Cool:

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## Michael H Geimer

I have a loud, warm uke with lots of projection, a Kanile'a C-1K. I used it in a couple of jams, and do not think it can replace the mandolin's role, or the guitarist role. What I could do quite effectively was find a small space between the guitar and mando where the uke could slide into chords or syncopate the rhythms to create more swing to the otherwise straight Boom-Chuck.

The low volume helped keep me from creating a complete mess of things, and the overall effect was to warm up the mid-range area of the whole circle. I took a couple of short breaks using double stops to help me project.


Aside #1:
FWIW: The very first thing I plucked out on the uke was a finger-style arrangement of Wildwood Flower. It's really a great instrument, cursed to live in the shadow of a short, freaky hippie.

Aside #2:



> Tiny Tim is (was) to Ukelele as Bob Dylan is to Harmonica.


Jake Shimabukuro is to the ukulele what Toots Thielsman is to the harmonica.

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## Tim2723

> The Tiptoe thing always happens sooner or later in ukulele threads. I am a "more often and better" ukulele player than I am a mandolin player. If you ask me to play Tiptoe Through the Tulips, ya know what you are going to get?
> 
> 
> 
> Tiptoe Through the Tulips. It's a very nice song. It is only Tiny Tim's legacy that has cast it in a bad light.


Bravo, Bruce!  Herbert Khaury did more to damage the reputation of that tune than anyone in history.  He was actually a brilliant player and music historian specializing in tunes of that period, but was only recognized for his novelty act.

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## journeybear

> It's really a great instrument, cursed to live in the shadow of a short, freaky hippie.


Somehow it behooves me to point out Tim was hardly tiny. He was 6'1"!  :Disbelief:  Living proof (if any is needed) of the old saw, "It takes a big man to play a small instrument."




> Jake Shimabukuro is to the ukulele what Toots Thielsman is to the harmonica.


 :Smile:  

Like it or not, Dylan has produced some of the most memorable, emblematic harmonica lines in rock history. I am well aware there are those who contend the whole notion of rack harp is abhorrent and proponents should be [ ___________fill in the blank with your preferred punishment___________ ], and some of his output is in Exhibit A. To them I reply, it is what it is, but check out John Hammond. he has mastered the technique to where it sounds like a hand-held harp.

But, um, this is a thread about ukes, so ... I just wanted to set the record straight. A tiny bit. As you were ...  :Grin: 

God bless us, everyone!  :Whistling:

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Michael H Geimer

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## Tim2723

Yes, Herbie was a tall drink of water.  I'm also impressed by Shimabukuro, but to be frank, if he played on a six-string would we think him soooo much better than any other fine finger-style guitarist, or would he be just another of the thousands of impressive players?  The fact that he does it on a uke is cool.  That he does it on a low-G tuned tenor, well....it's just a four-string guitar in the wrong key.

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## Jim Yates

> Like it or not, Dylan has produced some of the most memorable, emblematic harmonica lines in rock history. I am well aware there are those who contend the whole notion of rack harp is abhorrent and proponents should be [ ___________fill in the blank with your preferred punishment___________ ], and some of his output is in Exhibit A. To them I reply, it is what it is, but check out John Hammond. he has mastered the technique to where it sounds like a hand-held harp.


As did the late Willie P. Bennett.

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## allenhopkins

> ...John Hammond.,,has mastered the technique to where it sounds like a hand-held harp...


Continuing the hijack, the best "rack harp" player I've heard in the past few years is (surprise!), Jonathan Edwards, he of _Sunshine_ fame:

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## Bill Baldridge

There are bluegrass police and there are nice people never say no police.  I often find that neither has much tolerance for anyone who doesn't agree with them.  My own policy at a bluegrass jam is to leave when either the third banjo or the bagpipe shows up.

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## Rodney Riley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YHnMFo0G1A8

 :Smile:  'nuff said  :Smile: 

a little newer vid  :Smile: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zdOmEfjvxyo

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## Mike Bunting

Wrong post

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## Jim Yates



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allenhopkins, 

mandopete

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## Beanzy

We've got a ukelele player in our community orchestra and I'm moving over from cello to mandolin to support her in some pieces.
There's a wee sub-section of the OT community over here who bring their ukes and do really well in jams, especially later on when people mellow a bit and the logs burn a bit lower. I've seen a few banjo ukes pop up, but then the George Formby comments are never too far away.
However the use of a uke by a BG band would be a novelty item. 
In a Bluegrass jam I feel it would be a misunderstanding of what a Bluegrass specific jam is about.

As the pick holding issue is your thumb, you could experiment with a thumbpick but wear it on the index finger curled in as if it were holding a normal pick.

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## stevejay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvbGAKpUP88


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LValCUqCILU


Somehow I can deal with the trance quality they get, it could get boring, but I'm a fan anyway from years ago. Not Bluegrass, more oldtime modal

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## Cue Zephyr

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to take a mandolin where a uke is expected than a uke to where a mandolin is expected.

But the uke never became a serious instrument for me, even after watching some Jake Shimabukuro videos.

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## Alex Orr

At the risk of being accused of close mindedness, I'll say, "No, ukes just don't work in bluegrass."  At a couple of our local jams we have people bring ukes every now and then and it's basically pointless.  Even in a circle of 4-5 people the instrument gets drowned out - it never functions successfully as a lead or rhythm instrument in a legit bluegrass jam.  Now, if you and say, a guitarist wanted to play tunes in the traditional bluegrass repertoire in a lower volume and more mellow reconfiguration, then, yeah, you could do that.  If the jam was just folks with acoustic instruments who wanted to play folksy style music with no real emphasis on it sounding like traditional bluegrass, then maybe it could work there.  However, take a uke to a serious bluegrass jam and try to really participate musically in a circle that has, say, a bass, two guitars, a mando, a dobro, a fiddle, and a banjo or two.  See how well it fits in when running through "Gold Rush" at 200 BPM or cranking through "The Old Home Place" and then tell me if it works out nicely.  There are a number of instruments that fall into the folk music realm that some folks seem to think should work just fine in bluegrass (I've seen more people lug dulcimers to jams than I can count) but that in reality make no sense in the style of music because bluegrass does sort've have some stylistic rules that, in general, preclude the effectiveness and desirability of certain instruments in the mix.

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Cue Zephyr, 

Mike Bunting

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## Willie Poole

Well said Alex, To me the uke is not a bluegrass instrument and I have heard many good uke players in my travels, in fact my first stringed instrument was a uke and it was a good stepping stone to better and bigger things like lead guitar in a country band and a mandolin player in my bluegrass band...They have their place in a few other kinds of music but not for me in bluegrass...EVEN  IF  ONE  WAS  AMPLIFIED  it wouldn`t fit in....But then again I did see a fellow playing a wooden box a few days ago in a bluegrass (The Isaacs) band, yes a wooded box, he was sitting on top of it and banging on it like it was a bongo drum, wonders never cease, maybe he just wanted to get into the show without paying admission, I don`t know....

    Willie

   Willie

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## mandopete

Nope

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## SincereCorgi

Yeah, not for traditional bluegrass. But definitely in old time- Jere Canote has made a couple albums that show how nicely ukulele and violin get along on old time tunes. My father plays banjo uke at old time jams and it works pretty well. The main difficulty is that a uke in high G tuning requires a lot of jumping around up the neck for melodies, so fiddle tunes at speed are tough.

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## JeffD

Banjo ukes and resonator ukes are great in old time. I love the sound.

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## Willie Poole

I`m talking "true bluegrass, not this stuff that is being played and called "Bluegrass" now days...That's my story and I`m sticking to it...

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Mike Bunting

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## allenhopkins

Surprisingly, though, there seems to be a "bluegrass ukulele" genre or sub-genre emerging; there's a Fred Sokolow book for _Bluegrass Ukulele_, and a quick search on YouTube yielded a bunch of vids claiming to show uke-ists playing in that style.

Concur with Willie, none of it sounded much like bluegrass to me.  Some licks and repertoire taken from bluegrass, but not the kinda thing I'd expect from BG bands.

In old-time, a vigorously strummed ukulele or ukulele banjo is a great rhythm instrument.  Check out the Horseflies, the neo-punk-old-timey string band.

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Mike Bunting

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## CES

Saw a video on YouTube a while back with Chris Thile sitting in with Sometymes Why, playing a Uke on "Too Repressed."  I recall some of the comments being that he was playing the Uke "like a mandolin."  I guess there are "Uke police," too. Not posting the link given the "adult content" of the song (which is actually pretty hilarious, and easy enough to find if you're inclined). But, he wasn't playing bluegrass music  :Wink: ...

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## jesserules

> I did see a fellow playing a wooden box a few days ago in a bluegrass (The Isaacs) band, yes a wooded box, he was sitting on top of it and banging on it like it was a bongo drum, wonders never cease, maybe he just wanted to get into the show without paying admission, I don`t know....
> 
>     Willie


That would be a cajon (pronounced ka-HOAN), rhythm instrument used in flamenco music.  Actually it is a wooden box, used to be scavenged packing crates that people would beat on, now they've been "instrumentified" & you can buy custom made, concert tuned, walnut with exotic hardwood trim, etc. cajons.  If you wanted to.

But no, they aren't a bluegrass instrument.  Heck, some _aficionados_ say they're not even a flamenco instrument.  (Anybody who thinks the Bluegrass Police are strict, go check out the Flamenco Police.  Whew!)

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## catmandu2

> (Anybody who thinks the Bluegrass Police are strict, go check out the Flamenco Police.  Whew!)


That's right--trad bluegrass "arguments" are softball compared to that of flamenco _puro_--basically, eschewing all but the gitano

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