# Instruments and Equipment > Videos, Pictures & Sound Files >  1902 Gibson Mandolin Model A , 6th one built by Gibson

## Bmaverick

Not sure what to do with this newly acquired Gibson. I believe it was their 6th one made as the serial number is 2506.  The bottom shell has a piece out of it where it is very thin and probably dropped at one time.
    Are they worth more as they are or repaired and restored?  Does anyone know if these are mahogany or redwood?  
    There are 2 tabs missing at the bottom for the 2 larger strings, should I try to  make a new one?  I believe this one may be missing a Gibson plate that covers the strings at the bottom also.
    Anyone have an idea on the value?    Thanks, Bart

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Burk

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## Goodin

Wow.  This is the earliest Gibson mandolin known to still exist based on records at The Mandolin Archive.  Definitely get that cracked fixed and an overall check up.  In the meantime de-tune the strings if you see any top sinkage.  This is a historically significant instrument.  Thanks for sharing!

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Bmaverick

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## mrmando

Hi Bart, 

This is a historically significant mandolin. 2526 was the earliest known Gibson factory mandolin until yours turned up: 
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/2526

The top of your instrument is most likely spruce. I don't know about the back. Most later Gibsons have birch backs, but 2526 almost looks like oak to me (I'm not a wood expert). It isn't mahogany. 

Where are you located? Yours needs a lot of repair and should be handled by a Gibson specialist to maximize its resale value. Correctly restored, it could be worth several thousand dollars, but if poorly restored it could be worth next to nothing. 

I wouldn't try to make a new tailpiece for it. It's probably worth having a couple of new tabs soldered onto the existing tailpiece. It is missing the cover, but a new cover can be bought or fabricated.

There are just a handful of restoration specialists in the USA to whom I would entrust a rare Gibson like this. Seriously. Don't try to fix it yourself; let us know where you're located and we'll help you figure out where to take it.

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## Dave Reiner

There are older ones whose photos are not in the Archive.  This one from 1901 was signed by Orville Gibson.  It plays ok, although the action is a bit high.  I concur with the advice to be very cautious about restoration.

Dave

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## sunburst

Except for the damage to the back, it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Personally (my opinions, here) I'd have it repaired by an experienced repair person who understands proper materials and techniques, and how to minimize the amount of work and come up with good results. A good repair should end up minimally visible and involve no more of the instrument and it's finish than necessary.
I'd add another tailpiece with matching screw holes and keep that one (if it is original to the mandolin) as is. An added, serviceable tailpiece that requires no modification to the instrument for installation can be swapped back to original at any time and would have no effect on value.

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Bmaverick

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## mrmando

> There are older ones whose photos are not in the Archive.  This one from 1901 was signed by Orville Gibson.


Righto, but I think the point here is that Bart's mandolin is the earliest known _post-_Orville mandolin from what was then the brand-spankin' newly organized Gibson Company.

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## Bmaverick

I am in Kalamazoo, Michigan.  I do have a friend in the UP who plays violin professionally.  She knows an older man that is a expert luthier (I think that is how you spell it). The wood on these does have the grain texture of spruce but this is much darker color.  Is that because of the age?  
    I picked up this unit yesterday at a garage sale from an older deaf mute family.  I think the old man died and so they were clearing out everything.  I suppose that being close to the original factory here in Kalamazoo, that is how they may have acquired it.  
    I am surprised at how thin the wood is on the back.
I have known several people that worked at Gibson, including my uncle.  In fact, Floyd Newton just died, he was the father of a guy I work with everyday.  He did much of the custom painting and finishing of Gibson guitars and Heritage guitars.  One was in the Prince movie, "Purple Rain".   
I agree that the tailpiece could be silver soldered.

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## Bmaverick

Thanks for the info.
I do understand the workings of wood as I have worked with some friends who build and restore old antique wood boats.  
When looking at the tail piece cover with the words " The Gibson".  Were those pieces simply chromed steel?  And could not one be made and have a professional engraver duplicate the writing?

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## Bmaverick

I have noticed on this Gibson mandolin that on the tail piece there is no button for a strap.  Was it intended to be held like a uke back then with out a strap?

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## mrmando

Bart, you should take this to Elderly Instruments in East Lansing: 
http://elderly.com/

Elderly is one of the top three or four dealers/repair shops of vintage Gibsons in the country, and it's within driving distance of Kalamazoo. They'll be able to do a minimally invasive repair, make a reliable appraisal of value, and even sell it on consignment for you. I'd recommend calling them and asking to speak to Stan Werbin. I'm sure he'll be interested.

General woodworking knowledge isn't quite sufficient here ... one needs to be familiar with the specific materials and techniques that were used to build the instruments originally. Things changed a lot at Gibson over the years ... the way your uncle's generation did things was a lot different than the way they were done in 1902. 

I'm not sure if your tailpiece is steel or brass. There are lots of vintage tailpiece covers floating around ... it might be cheaper to acquire one than to fabricate one from scratch.

And yes, it was meant to be played sitting down. Most Gibsons do have endpins, but those weren't meant to be strap buttons. Playing mandolin with a strap didn't really become popular until the 1940s.

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Bmaverick

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## William Smith

Found at Garage sale don'tever give up on them kind of sales fellas!!,,Something sweet is bound to surface from time to time!,if ya go  by certain known serial #'s there's many missing high end instruments just waiting to be found,,,Reminds me of an estate sale pretty close to my home about 10-12 years ago when a Loar F-5 was found in a guncabinet and sold for a woppin 800 Bucks,yep 800 bucks!!!!!!!!! In my backyard! Some lucky fella was at the right place right time! :Grin:

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## danb

Nice one Bart- that is indeed the earliest (factory) Gibson Mandolin we've seen.. We reckon they started their serials at 2500 or 2501. I'd appreciate if you could take a few more photos in high res, we'd love to add them to the mandolin archive.

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## woodwizard

> Except for the damage to the back, it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Personally (my opinions, here) I'd have it repaired by an experienced repair person who understands proper materials and techniques, and how to minimize the amount of work and come up with good results. A good repair should end up minimally visible and involve no more of the instrument and it's finish than necessary.
> I'd add another tailpiece with matching screw holes and keep that one (if it is original to the mandolin) as is. An added, serviceable tailpiece that requires no modification to the instrument for installation can be swapped back to original at any time and would have no effect on value.


If anyone could fix this right for you it would be sunburst from what I've seen and heard here on the cafe'... Seriously he knows what he's doing. He understands proper materials and techniques, and how to minimize the amount of work and come up with good results.

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## Jim Garber

Very cool... I was about to ask about the tailpiece and if that was original and then I looked at 2526 in the archives. Phew!!

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## mrmando

Looks like the 2526 tailpiece is missing a tab too.

Maybe from a conservator's standpoint, John's idea makes the most sense: craft a new tailpiece that matches the existing screw holes and don't do anything to the old one ... just keep it with the mandolin.

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## danb

5 screws and no endpin hole on the earliest ones- and also no tailblock!

The tailpiece cover on 2526 is not typicaly- it was likely filed smooth by the owner. Sometimes those pineapple tailpiece covers stab your forearm! I've seen a number that were either filed or bent to blunt the sharp parts.

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## Jim Garber

It looks to me that these tailpieces were hand crafted and not manufactured by machine at this early point.

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## Bmaverick

From what I have learned from my friends that play violin professionally, come to find out there is an expert viola repair person right here in Kalamazoo.  I suppose that is convenient as we have Western Michigan University here with a school of music.

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## Bmaverick

You are right, there is no tailblock inside   So how did they hold it, either on their lap or like a uke? Most spruce that I know is very light in color, yet this is so redish brown.  I did also find a crack in the wood at the tail piece mount.

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## Bmaverick

Great info, thanks for sharing your knowledge.  I have been to Elderly music years ago in Lansing so I do know where they are at. 
It still puzzles me how this wood (apparently spruce) is so dark in color compared to what I am familiar with. Perhaps the aging of the wood.  Looks a lot like rosewood.
If I take it to be repaired, shouldn't I remove the valuable oval serial number/ name paper logo.  Best way to do so?  Steam or getting under it with flat razor blade?  Sounds risky since it is such an important part of the instrument and its history.

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## Bmaverick

Tailpiece is plated brass, perhaps nickel plated, with steel screws.  Unique cuts in it between the string openings, like they first bent it over, then took a round rotary cutter tool and cut the spaces between the string tangs.

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## Bmaverick

Here are some hi res photos for you.
Hey Bluegrasser78, yes garage sales are great.  These old timers that had tons of antique stuff, much of which I do not know the demand or value of.  Including old theater lighting, lead fabricating tools, scales, butter churns etc.  When I first saw this sitting on the top shelf with lots of other junk outside, I thought it might be an interesting art piece to hang on the wall.  Then I looked at it and saw the trade mark label and got excited.  I missed this same sale the week previous that they also had and no one bought it then.  I couldn't turn it down for $15.

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## Steve Davis

No neck block either? How different.

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## BradKlein

Hey BMav, 

Thanks for sharing the photos. You're going to give everyone around here heart trouble if you keep talking about working on this instrument yourself.  Take it to Elderly. And keep us informed if you're willing.  It's valuable monetarily, but it's also of great historical interest to those who love the American mandolin. Congratulations.

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## Jake Wildwood

> It still puzzles me how this wood (apparently spruce) is so dark in color compared to what I am familiar with. Perhaps the aging of the wood.  Looks a lot like rosewood.


It's called oxidation.

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## Bmaverick

Now it is de-stringed, no sinkage on the top but since the bottom is off, the tail area is pulled outward about 1/8".
In you recommendation to get the cracked area fixed, does that mean to leave all the old finish on it as is? Or strip and refinish it?

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## nobullmando74

> Hey BMav, 
> 
> Thanks for sharing the photos. You're going to give everyone around here heart trouble if you keep talking about working on this instrument yourself.  Take it to Elderly. And keep us informed if you're willing.  It's valuable monetarily, but it's also of great historical interest to those who love the American mandolin. Congratulations.


Seriously, my heart sank to my stomach when I read dremil and tailpiece in that post.  :Crying:

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## nobullmando74

Maverick do yourself a favor and have an expert repair this instrument. It will be worth a lot more. Working with wood is one thing. Working with antique instruments is another. Leave it to the professionals. If your not willing to do that perhaps you should consider selling it here for someone to do the right thing.

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## Bmaverick

Obviously, when they repair the bottom, they will have to cut out the bad area, shape a new piece of wood to match it, then glue that piece in place. And obviously the color will be different. Does that matter, or not because when the whole unit is refinished, that area can be stained to match first before refinishing the complete unit.

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## PJ Doland

You probably do *not* want to have the whole thing refinished. Doing so would negatively affect the value of the instrument.

Give John Hamlett a call. His handle on here is "sunburst" and he does AMAZING repair work.

He's done a number of threads showing repairs he has done for me in the past, on Loar era instruments (1923 F2, 1923 A Snakehead)

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Bmaverick

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## BradKlein

Since you're not hearing anything that's been said up to now, let me take a different tack.  

What you want to do is get some chemical stripper.  Peel that label off with a pocket knife, then get rid of all the old finish.  Don't bother shaping a new piece of wood. Auto body filler works fine.  Then just spray it with Krylon, glue the label back in, and that baby'll be better than new. 

Best of luck from all your new friends here at Mandolin Cafe!

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Spruce

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## Bmaverick

Well gentlemen, your advice is taken to heart.  I think for now, I will simply admire it and not do nothing till I get time to show it to the folks at Elderly and the professional wooden instrument repair man that I am now told operates out of a house across from the Kalamazoo Institute of Arts building to get some opinions on it.  People travel very far to let him repair their antique violins. 
     I am a boat mechanic by trade, and have been given many gifts by God to fix things.  I have restored player pianos with all their complicated pneumatics,  as well as carpentry and most things around the house.  My love for music goes way back primarily with acoustic guitars.  And sharing the good news of Jesus Christ through that music.   History, especially musical instrument history is fascinating to me and especially living near Kalamazoo where Orville Gibson started his business.  Over the years, I have known many people who have worked at Gibson including my uncle who worked on the final clear coating back in the early 60's. The fairly new Kalamazoo Valley Museum, in downtown Kalamazoo, has a string festival every year and a great display of the old Gibson factory and instruments. The factory,(now Heritage Guitar company), is still here, and only the prices have changed over the years.  Thanks for all of you sharing info on this mandolin and steering me which way to go.  Bart Weststrate

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## BradKlein

Hey Bart.  Glad the messages got through. 

You'll find that the Cafe is a friendly space on the internet, and my earlier post is about as mean as things ever get around here - and I really don't mean to be unkind.  Sounds like you know what you're doing, and I'm glad that mandolin fell into the hands of someone who can appreciate how special it is.  

Best wishes,  Brad

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## mrmando

$15? Man oh man. 

I'd give you 10 times what you paid for it, as is ... 

But if you get it restored properly, it could be worth 300 times what you paid for it. Or at least that's my wild guess. 

There's absolutely no reason to remove the label. The closer the label is to original condition, the more valuable the instrument. Best not to touch it. If a luthier is doing something that might affect the label, he/she can tape a temporary patch over the label to protect it. 

It looks like the crack is actually in the side, not the back. A good repair will not cut away any original wood, or at least not any more than is necessary to fit patches. Filling in the missing pieces in your crack is probably a matter of cutting patches and cleating them in from behind, but I'm not a luthier so I don't know for sure. 

There's also no reason to strip any of the finish. That will kill the collector value for sure. 

Drilling any new holes in it or altering it in any way also reduces the value. 

Since the back is already detached, you will save some money on repairs. Removing and reattaching the back is a big hit in the labor department. 

Your local violin repair guy can give you an idea of the kind of work it needs. But Elderly is where you need to go in order to get an appraisal of value. Elderly will also have connections to collectors, many of whom might be very interested in owning the earliest known Gibson factory mandolin, provided that it's restored by a shop with a good reputation for handling vintage Gibsons. Like Elderly. 

I am so glad you shared this with us.

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Bmaverick

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## danb

Hello Bart- I'll give you the historical perspective on this great find.

We think that Gibson Factory instruments (those with serial numbers to indicate a factory warranty!) started coming out around 1902/1903, with that particular label like yours.. and with the earliest known serial sitting at 2502. So really, there's nothing even saying yours wasn't done first, the serial number is something that happened when it went in a shipping ledger and got noted with a warranty.

Orville Gibson gave his name and designs to the factory- and his earliest designs and techniques all appear in this instrument of yours. It's a very modest version (many were extremely elaborate and decorated), but of great historical and collector value. Repairs, restoration, etc.. should only go to a well-known shop that specifically works on these instruments. Elderly is a great suggestion, there are many others too- but I'd advise strongly that you should start with Elderly and take advice there over a personal contact violin luthier.. (unless you mean Bill Halsey!).

When Orville designed his mandolins a few years earlier, there were pretty much just these "potato bug" style instruments, ones that look like a lute and have a big watermelon-sized curved bowl-back. This was a radical change to have a "pancake" or "Skillet" shape to it. The idea caught on, and it would change things permanently for this instrument. There have been bowl-backs since (And some very nice!), but something like 95% of the mandolins made from about 1910 onwards would be this new style.

So picture Gibson as a start-up company at the time yours was made. Brand new- craftsmen working with Orville perhaps to learn how to make them like he did. The very first ones made (yours certainly deserves this label!) were almost identical to Orville's own. The pictures are great- they show all kinds of things that *aren't* present.

In the inside shot of the top, you can see.. no lateral brace.. no kerfed linings.. no head or tailblocks, and a curious color to the wood. The braces, blocks, kerfing- all that was a later construction technique that evolved. You can see the marks of some locating brads/pins in the sides for the back (near the neck/body join and tailpiece area) too.

The very early ones like yours don't have a block at the tailpiece to hold things together. Later ones use a bent piece of wood glued to some blocks at the top and bottom- you'll see if you look closely that the sides on yours is actually not bent, but carved from a huge piece of wood like a toilet seat in a way. This didn't last- seemed wasteful of wood I suppose, they'd use bent strips only a few short years later.

The peghead and tuners are very cool too- the bulging forehead look up there- this would become much more svelte soon after.

I'm quite intrigued by the neck / body area too.. there should actually be a hollow cavity up there under the fingerboard! The next A model mandolin with serial 2526 that we have documented has this, and we had assumed that was a hallmark of the very earliest builds. See the photo below for the comparison/contrast

On repairs/restoration/etc:
I'd assume your goal is to make very good on your garage sale find, and I say well done! It's especially nice that you found this forum and posted pictures, very generous of you to share with us and much appreciated. You'll probably find that it holds about the most value it will right now in current as-found condition- just about any changes you could make would be negative.

This one won't likely get played again- that would be an unnecessary risk. Its historical importance outweighs that completely. If you're looking to sell, you'll probably get lots of advice here (much of it from potential buyers too!)- a dealer could do a very good job of marketing it for you, but then you could also do pretty well here on the cafe. Listing a classified ad here with a pointer to ebay would be a good way to let the market find the price.

SO in summary- it's very cool & historical. Be conservative, dont' change/repair anything for now.. you'll wreck the value! It's great if you could shoot us more angles and photos if you've got the time and inclination, it's something special to have the "earliest known Gibson factory mandolin" show up!

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Bmaverick, 

JGWoods

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## houseworker

This lovely instrument will best find a buyer if it is sold unrestored, exactly as it is now.  Let the buyer arrange the restoration and foot the bill.  You'll take more out of the deal that way too.

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Bmaverick

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## Andy Morton

Thanks for sharing this wonderful find with us....as you can see in the mandolin world, this is like finding a very early Stradivarious in a closet.  Sorry for the drama...it appears that you understand why people got so excited about this.  

Glad to hear that you are taking it to Elderly.... they have dealt with  many vintage instruments like this before.    If you can, please let us know how it turns out.

Andy

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## houseworker

> Elderly is a great suggestion....since they have handled many vintage instruments like this before (some valued at $200 K)


It is most unfair to the OP to start quoting Loar prices, since it leads to unrealistic expectations and subsequent disappointment.

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## danb

Oh my yes, this isn't in the realm of a Loar. I popped a private suggestion at pricing range.. it's a great garage sale buy no doubt, but I would be surprised to see this one sell for more than a little above the value of an equivalent A model of the period..
I

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## BradKlein

Or in simple language, 'thousands of dollars', not 'tens of thousands of dollars'.

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## Bmaverick

Some have requested more pics of this historical instrument so here are some more closeups.  After looking at it closely and feeling the weight of the neck, I do not believe it is hollow or carved out like the later models with a hole in the body entering the hollowed out space of the neck.  Enjoy.

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## sunburst

When do flat fingerboards show up on Gibson mandolins (and become the standard)? I see that one has an arched 'board and bridge.

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## BradKlein

Looks like Red Murphy influenced the design of the bridge!
Also interesting is a higher ratio of the tuner gears than i'd expect.

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## Bmaverick

Dave Reiner, Your picture is interesting. It looks like the paper trademark serial number is on a square tag.  I thought they were all oval back then????

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## danb

Nice shots- yes at least some (not sure if "all of them") of the very early ones have a subtle radius on both bridge and fingerboard. it's interesting that that feature would not come back into regular use on mandolins for nearly 80 years.

Bart- the earliest ones that were hand-made & signed by Orville Gibson pre-Gibson company have a square label with Orville's signature (like Dave's example). Some just have a signature on the wood inside too, some have nothing (or missing labels).

On the label- The oval ones like yours with the lyre & Orville's face were in use from ~1902 to around 1911.. when they changed to the "Guaranteed" label style that is seen through for 25 years or so when they made some slight changes again.

I love those bridges- 4 scrolls! Such delicate cuts too.

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Bmaverick

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## Andy Morton

Hey folks--I apologize to Bart and everyone else concerning any misinformation associated with my original post mentioning Loar mandolins and those values.   I guess maybe I exaggerated a wee bit about the Stradivarious analogy too---oops.  I didn't intend to imply that this mandolin would have that kind of value or the value of a Loar Master Model.  But what a find at a garage sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for pointing this out....I agree that it might lead to false expectations---and I don't want to do that.

This hot weather in Wisconsin is getting to me!!!!

Andy

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## BradKlein

One thing I love about this period, is the sheer exuberant optimism of Gilded Age America. That an old world tradition like the small ensemble string group could be reinvented in myriad ways.  The parlor banjo, the mandolin orchestra.  And that the instruments themselves can be reinvented! patented! marketed! 

Orville's conviction that he could bandsaw most of the instrument out of a single thick slab of walnut, ignoring 200+ years of violin and lute making.  And let's not forget Vega's cylinder-back mando-lutes.  And Lyon & Healy's scrolls, and extendable leg-rest pegs!  And of course it culminates in that most unlikely and perfect design, the F-model mandolin.  Not to be matched for inventiveness or perfection until the early Fender and Gibson electrics, half a century later.

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## Bmaverick

After a conversation with Dan at the mandolin archive, and examining the wood back, I would have to agree that the back piece is made of walnut, not spruce like I first thought. Spruce has lines in the grain that are very clear but the walnut does not.  I have also noticed that the back is made up of 2 pieces of wood glued together side by side, before it is carved out.  The bottom corner where it has some material missing was very fragile and only about 1/16" thick on the side, and could be why it broke so easy.  I also noticed that on # 2526 in the mandolin archives, his has the serial number stamped in the wood on the side of the head.  This one has no other markings anywhere that I can find.

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## Jim Garber

> 


That volute is really something -- yet another feature that was dropped soon after this -- looks like it went to 2651 but not too much after that.

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## Goodin

I'm having a hard time visualizing how the neck is joined to the body.  There should be a joinery of some sorts, like a dove tail.  Is the neck and sides cut from the same block of wood?

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## Raggle Taggle

Wouldn't Gibson be interested in this mandolin?  Perhaps they would accept a "donation" of this instrument (as is) for their archives and gift you an honorarium in return.

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## Bmaverick

Goodin,  The main body in between the top and bottom, extends about 1.5" up the neck.  The neck is glued to the top of that, and against the flat on the upper piece, plus the fretboard is also glued to the top of the top body piece. No visable dove tail.  Main center body is carved out of a single piece of wood. Not sure what kind.   The neck looks like walnut.

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## Bmaverick

Raggle Taggle, I had thought about that but closer to home in the Kalamazoo Museum, which has a Gibson display.  But I am told they already have a pre-factory model like this one, from before the factory started in 1902.   I was thinking more of an on loan basis.

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## Goodin

> Goodin,  The main body in between the top and bottom, extends about 1.5" up the neck.  The neck is glued to the top of that, and against the flat on the upper piece, plus the fretboard is also glued to the top of the top body piece. No visable dove tail.  Main center body is carved out of a single piece of wood. Not sure what kind.   The neck looks like walnut.


Thanks.  Would you care to take a picture of this area and post, if you have time?

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## JeffD

> And yes, it was meant to be played sitting down. Most Gibsons do have endpins, but those weren't meant to be strap buttons. Playing mandolin with a strap didn't really become popular until the 1940s.


OK. I give up. What were they for, before the 1940s?  On a fiddle they hold the tension of the strings by holding the tailpiece. This function on the mandolin is done by the attachement of tailpiece itself, often with screws. So was this not always the case? Was the original purpose of the mandolin end pin similar to the fiddle's?

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## JeffD

> So really, there's nothing even saying yours wasn't done first, !


This is an amazing thought actually. Is there any information that can be acquired, either from the instrument itself or from external records, that could determine the actual order? Probably not but it is a fascinating thought.

I would love to see a comprehensive article (or column) on this wonderful instrument and its place in Gibson and indeed all of mandolin history.

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## Jim Garber

I guess one interesting point was when did Orville stop making instruments and the Gibson consortium start? Also, did OG serve as a consultant in the interim process. It seems that this mandolin has definite characteristics of the earlier Orville-built ones but seems to be changing slightly toward the more modern methods of even a few years later.

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## woodwizard

That's just what I was thinking Jim. Also I thought on OG's mandolins the neck and back were carved out of one piece of wood. Am I wrong on that asumption? This is really a great find for sure.

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## brunello97

I am so loving this thread. This is one of the best ones that has rolled through here in a long time.

Mick

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## mrmando

> Was the original purpose of the mandolin end pin similar to the fiddle's?


AFAIK, Gibson mandolins had endpins because violins had them. 

As we can see from the changes in design during the first four years of the Gibson Company, the folks who bought Orville out soon discovered that a lot of his ideas weren't suitable for mass production. Many of the changes they made were borrowed from violin design: tailblocks, neck joints, bent rather than carved sides, kerfing, etc. I'm not prepared to say endpins were added for no other reason than to look purty ... but since they're held in place mostly by friction, they're clearly not intended to be strap buttons. Before Bill Monroe made straps popular, mandolinist either played sitting down or just cradled the instrument in their arms when they stood up, the way Dave Apollon did and Carlo Aonzo still does.

As for the idea of donating this instrument to Gibson, I'm not sure Gibson has any "archives" per se, or any appropriate place to display such a thing.

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## Bmaverick

Ok, gentlemen, here is the pics to settle your questions about neck to body construction.  Also, I removed the metal string holder at the tail, no evidence of anything else under there like a pin.  Talked to Bill Halsey and we had a great conversation about his roll trying to get Gibson to start producing mandolins and banjo's again in the 70's, but they kept the focus on the guitar scene.  Hope to meet him the end of the month.  He really like the repair department at Elderly of Lansing.

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## brunello97

> Ok, gentlemen, here is the pics to settle your questions about neck to body construction.  Also, I removed the metal string holder at the tail, no evidence of anything else under there like a pin.  Talked to Bill Halsey and we had a great conversation about his roll trying to get Gibson to start producing mandolins and banjo's again in the 70's, but they kept the focus on the guitar scene.  Hope to meet him the end of the month.  He really like the repair department at Elderly of Lansing.


Stretch Reinsmith, at Elderly, just completed a repair on my '16 Gibson A this winter.  Seamless, flawless, you name it.  Great craftwork and the mandolin plays like a dream.  Count me as a recommender.

Mick

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## danb

Look at the left-most photo folks- a great illustration of construction on the early ones. The top is huge. Look at it, it's the same thickness as the neck after the join!

The sides incorporate the heel- same piece!




> Ok, gentlemen, here is the pics to settle your questions about neck to body construction.

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## Goodin

> Look at the left-most photo folks- a great illustration of construction on the early ones. The top is huge. Look at it, it's the same thickness as the neck after the join!
> 
> The sides incorporate the heel- same piece!


Whoa, interesting build method.  I'm still unclear how the top and neck join up.  Are they one piece?  Maybe another side pic which shows more of the side would help.  It would be great to see what the join looks like under the fretboard if the fretboard should need to be removed.  

There is so much wood on these early ones, I bet they are quite heavy and don't have much tone or volume.

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## Bmaverick

I received this interesting article of the evolution of the mandolin and banjo.  Thought I would share it.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/d/rdevelli...mbs%20text.htm

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## Bmaverick

I also received this article that was very interesting.
Musical Maidens of Kalamazoo Charm Audiences with Merry Melodies That Help Sell Small Goods

KALAMAZOO, MICH., Nov. 13. 1922.. a number of Kalamazoo young women organized the Gibson lelody Maids, one purpose was to provide good instrumental programs which would be popular at meetings of clubs. But they have done more than that. In fact, they have stimulated an interest in small goods wherever they have appeared, or wherever they have been heard, to be exact, for one of their recent successes was in a radio concert given at the Detroit "News" broadcasting station.

The Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Co. of this city has found that these musical maidens are an aid to dealers who wish to stimulate the sale of small goods.

And the Gibson Melody Maids are filling engagements in various towns and cities near here.

Manufacturer Ties Up Ads with Radio Concert

During a recent month the major portion of the Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Co.'s advertisements in national magazines featured a picture of the Gibson Melody Maids Orchestra and announced the radio concert at Detroit. Previous to the concert the news service bureau released three news articles and mats of the halftone picture of the Melody Maids orchestra.

These releases were sent to hundreds of newspapers within "listening" range of Detroit, many of which published the interesting announcement at the request of local music dealers. Also, all Gibson representatives on the continent were notified of the concert so that there were hundreds of audiences prepared to listen in and hear the music of the Gibson string orchestra as it was carried through the air.

Although general conditions were not particularly favorable for broadcasting on the evening of the concert, and there was apparently an unusual amount of interference, reports have been received from various parts of the United States and Canada and from Cuba, complimenting the Gibson Melody Maids on the excellence of their program and commenting particularly on the unusual tonal quality of the orchestra. The ■solidity of tone produced by the complete Gibson in


The Gibson Melody Maids

strumentation, which includes mando-bass, mando-'cellos, mandolas and mandolins, was quite surprising to the persons who had not had an opportunity to hear the full balanced mandolin orchestra and who had formed their opinions from hearing amateur mandolin clubs. The latter, while effective in their way, are far from complete, inasmuch as they consist mostly of treble instruments, usually first and second mandolins and guitar accompaniments.

The modern mandolin orchestra, as exemplified by the Gibson Melody Maids, provided a most satisfactory ensemble for the performance of chamber music and popular and classical orchestrations, all of which were exemplified on the Detroit "News" radio program. In addition, the orchestra furnished accompaniments for vocal solos by Miss Doris Oliver, soprano, and supplied a most satisfactory foundation and background, not only for the solos but for the chorus and quartet singing.

An interesting part of the program was provided by Leonard Grinnell and Lincoln Gibson, who demonstrated tenor banjos in several duets and arrangements of popular numbers. The banjos carried very well over the radio and the remarkable playing of Mr. Grinnell and Mr. Gibson occasioned much favorable comment from radio fans. Mr. Grinnell is the only son of Elmer Grinnell, one of the members of the Grinnell Bros, firm.





In Kalamazoo, Michigan, a guitarist named  Orville Gibson created a revolutionary new style of

mandolin built on the principles of violin construction. He believed that wood produced the best

tone when it was in an unstressed state. To avoid the stress inherent in bowlback construction,

Gibson carved the top of his instrument into an arched shape, similar to that of the violin. Ideally, as

he stated in his patent, the back, sides, and neck should be carved out of a single piece of wood, but

he admitted that this was impractical. He did carve the back in a shallow bowl shape, using walnut

rather than the rosewood of the typical bowlback. He applied his new concepts to two new designs.

His A-style had a symmetrical pear-shaped body, considerably wider than a bowlback. His F-style

represented a more radical departure from tradition, with a scrolled upper bass bout and three body

points. 

Orville Gibson’s instruments were bigger, stronger and louder than any bowlback, and both the Astyle and the F-style were immediately successful. He became a full-time instrument maker in 1896;

within six years he could no longer meet the demand by himself, so in 1902 he sold his patent to five

3individuals who formed the Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Mfg.  Co.,  Ltd.  The  Gibson  company

proceeded to become the strongest force in raising the mandolin to new heights of popularity, and

both of Orville Gibson’s designs—the A-style and the F-style—remain the standards for American

mandolin makers today.

Gibson’s first general manager was a music-store owner, Sylvo Reams, and the first sales manager

(later general manager) was a former mandolin teacher, Lewis Williams. Reams foresaw the difficulty

a new company would have in convincing instrument dealers to accept a radical new product, so he

found a more direct route to the player—through teachers. Williams could not only communicate

with teachers based on his own  experience,  he could also promote Gibson mandolins with

evangelical fervor. He went on the road recruiting “teacher-agents” who received a commission on

every Gibson they sold—effectively bypassing music stores. Williams took a leading role in the

American Guild of Banjoists, Mandolinists and  Guitarists (which  held its first convention,

appropriately, in 1902, the year the Gibson company was founded). He championed standardized

notation and promoted those publishing companies who supported it. He encouraged the formation

of mandolin groups, and if they all played Gibsons, he printed their photograph in Gibson catalogs

and advertisements under the caption “Every One a Gibson-ite.” He also contributed to Gibson’s

ongoing improvements to Orville’s original design, improvements that included maple back and

sides (or birch in the lower models), compensating bridges for better intonation, and eventually

height-adjustable bridges.

The mandolin permeated American musical culture in the early twentieth century. On the serious

side, Providence, Rhode Island, became a center of study. Giuseppe Pettine, a native of Italy, was

the most famous teacher, and his students included William Place Jr., who would later be billed as

“America’s Greatest Mandolin Virtuoso.”  On the entertainment side, James H. Johnstone, a.k.a. The

Musical Johnstone or Jumping Jimmie  Johnstone, entertained vaudeville crowds with his

performance of “Yankee Doodle Backwards,” in which he played the tune “frontwards” but turned

his back to the audience and put his mandolin behind his head. Other vaudeville acts, such as the

Noss Jollity Company or the Masqueria Sisters, adopted the foppish attire of the Spanish Students

and moved about the stage as they performed.

Throughout the country, in towns and  in  colleges, mandolin enthusiasts formed amateur “club”

groups, typically ranging in size from quartets and quintets to larger ensembles of a dozen or more.

Teachers organized their students into groups. For special events, promoters would put together

huge groups of 100 players or more; in 1910 the Wurlitzer music company of Chicago signed up 500

players (including some violinists and wind instrumentalists) for a “Mammoth Mandolin Orchestra,”

and the company announced plans to go for a 1,000-piece group. The Gibson company sponsored

The Gibsonians, which at one time included employees Lloyd Loar (a well-known soloist before his

employment with Gibson) and the ex-vaudevillian Jimmie Johnstone. Gibson also sponsored The

Gibson Melody Maids, a group of female employees. Many groups included women or were made

up entirely of women, and judging by photographs from the period, the mandolin era had the widest

participation by women of any popular music movement in history.

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## Bernie Daniel

In some ways that top board reminds me of a the grain on some western red cedar shingles I had on a house years ago -- did Gibson ever use cedar back then?

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## Bmaverick

> Hi Bart, 
> 
> This is a historically significant mandolin. 2526 was the earliest known Gibson factory mandolin until yours turned up: 
> http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/2526
> 
> The top of your instrument is most likely spruce. I don't know about the back. Most later Gibsons have birch backs, but 2526 almost looks like oak to me (I'm not a wood expert). It isn't mahogany. 
> 
> Where are you located? Yours needs a lot of repair and should be handled by a Gibson specialist to maximize its resale value. Correctly restored, it could be worth several thousand dollars, but if poorly restored it could be worth next to nothing. 
> 
> ...


After showing it to Bill H., it is determined that both the back and main side shell is walnut.  Similar back design as the 1902 U harp on Mandolin Archives, referring to the way the edges are carved out.

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## MyName1sMud

Wow! Nice Mandolin!

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## Burk

That is so cool! Thanks for sharing!

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