# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Comparing Northfield with Kentucky KM 1500

## cayuga red

I believe both are among the most respected (and priciest) of the Asian-made mandolins.  Has anyone had the chance to compare them as to sound and fit/finish?

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## f5loar

Are they that close in price?  I thought the NorthFields were several hundred more and harder to find.  The more the price generally relates to better materials and workmanship.  Sound comparsion is so objective.

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## dcoventry

Just for a starting point, go with MSRP's and go from there when comparing models. Sound is subjective, but if you do this you are not comparing a $500 mando with a $3k mando. Sound is so very subjective, but you will get into the ballpark of what apples and oranges sound like at least.  It's not perfect, but it's a mostly basic place to start.

OK, get on it and get to it.

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## cayuga red

> Just for a starting point, go with MSRP's and go from there when comparing models. Sound is subjective, but if you do this you are not comparing a $500 mando with a $3k mando. Sound is so very subjective, but you will get into the ballpark of what apples and oranges sound like at least.  It's not perfect, but it's a mostly basic place to start.
> 
> OK, get on it and get to it.


Thanks for your response.  I'm not sure I understand the $500 reference.  KM 1500's are at least 2k.  My original question was to anyone who's had the opportunity to play both models.  I haven't but was hoping to hear from someone who has.

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## dcoventry

> Thanks for your response.  I'm not sure I understand the $500 reference.  KM 1500's are at least 2k.  My original question was to anyone who's had the opportunity to play both models.  I haven't but was hoping to hear from someone who has.


Red,

I was just saying try to compare like with like in terms of cost to quality ratio. 

Folks occasionally do the LM700 vs. KM1000 or 1500 comparison and that's not fair. 

Folks also do the  A vs. F, which has been covered ad nauseum. A's are a bette deal, F's make some folks warm and fuzzy.

What needs to be MADE CLEAR is that you need to spend money to get something worthwhile. BUY USED, but DO NOT BE CHEAP. For God's sake, don't cut corner's on an instrument that you are trying to get joy and success out of. Even if you are just beggininning, a cheap instrument should be avoided if you have the means to reach higher.

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Flame Maple

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## almeriastrings

I have only ever seen one Northfield, so hardly a fair sample, and I did not have a KM-1500 there to compare it to directly, either. I am very familiar with the KM-1000's, however, and have played a few KM-1500's over the years. My impression was that in terms of fit/finish and materials used, the KM-1000's and KM-1500's are very good indeed. Impressively good. Two of the Kentucky's (one of them my own) had materials that were visibly superior to the Northfield - but the Northfield I examined was not, I believe, an 'upgraded' one with "Premium" materials. It was a standard model. The finish on the Northfield was not quite up to the same standard, in my opinion, as the KM's, but it was still very acceptable. To specify: not quite as clean inside the scroll and under the fingerboard extension. The finish also felt somewhat softer and - possibly - more vulnerable. That was really just an impression. The Northfield was quite new, however, and the Kentucky's all quite a bit older, also they were lacquer models. I have unfortunately not seen a Kentucky 'varnish' model so again, a direct comparison is not possible. General craftsmanship on the Northfield and KM-1000's and KM-1500's was pretty much equivalent, I would say. The Kentucky's were possibly a bit more "precise", but the Northfield was certainly very good. There were no faults anywhere on any of them. 

Tone... sound... unfortunately, very subjective. Also, I did not have them in the same room at the same time.... and I only got to play the Northfield for about 20 minutes. So, take this with a "pinch of salt". It was a very nice mandolin, that you could pick on stage or record with and do so without compromising anything. I would say the sound was a tad "warmer" with a bit more low end and 'resonance' than a KM-1000, though not quite as "dry & woody". I believe the KM-1500 was possibly a bit louder. You (or at least I) could not honestly pick a "winner" or "best" out of this bunch (2X KM-1000, 1 X KM-1500, 1 X Northfield). They each had their own characters and they were all truly nice mandolins - especially at the price. The KM-1500's you can get for just under $2K (The Mandolin Store is listing one at $1,999), the KM-1000's are just over $1500, and the Northfield to the spec I saw is around $2,500? I have played many a worse $4K+ instrument than _any_ of these. There is variability, and I only played one sample... two KM-1000's or KM-1500's will not sound identical, neither would two Northfield's... also the time they have been played/aged, choice of strings, and even the room you hear them in or the relative humidity at the time can make a difference. So, those are just my impressions, hardly a "definitive shoot-out". My over-riding impression was that the KM-1000, KM-1500 and the Northfield are all _serious_ mandolins at a bargain price for what you get. Like I said, I have played instruments at an awful lot more than any of these that were nowhere near as good. They are all the best sounding mandolins from that part of the world I've heard so far, without a doubt.

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Flame Maple

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## red7flag

I had a chance to play a number of Northfields at the Elderly Booth during 2011 Fanfest.  Very impressive.  The tone, fit and finish, and playability was very strong.  Over the years I have played a few Kentucky 1000s, the younger brother of the 1000 but here at the Cafe usually highly regarded, at Gruhn Guitar.  I would give the same evaluation that I gave the Northfields.  Were they the same price which would I prefer?  The Kentucky 1000s I have played have that Gibson sound, while the Northfields I played have a more modern sound.  Which is better?  That would depend on what music I am playing.  Traditional bluegrass: nod to Kentucky.  Most everything else a very slight nod to Northfield.  If I could only have one...Northfield, but a nod, but not by much.  Both are very impressive instruments.

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## Nick Gellie

Almeria,
How well do the KM1000 or KM1500 compare in tone and volume to your more dear Gibsons and Silverangels? Are the up there with your more expensive mandolins?

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## cayuga red

Thank you and and Almeria for your replies to my question.  I guess there are still too few Northfields to make the kind of comparison I was hoping for.  I'm considering purchasing a Northfield (sight and sound unseen) but wanted some more information before I placed the order.  The mandolins on the videos on the Northfield site (played by great mandolinists) sound wonderful.

Thanks again to all who've responded.    
Red

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## almeriastrings

> Almeria,
> How well do the KM1000 or KM1500 compare in tone and volume to your more dear Gibsons and Silverangels? Are the up there with your more expensive mandolins?


Straight answer: they're all different.

It is not a simple thing to say one "blows away" another... these are all_ very good_ instruments. But... they are different. If you had some things, it would be a clear no-contest, but with these, they all have something going for them. Unique voices.

The Silverangels have their own sound. It is not a "Gibson" sound (anymore than a Collings or Weber sounds like a Gibson). Mine are X-braced, so that really changes things quite a bit. Very good low end. Great mandolins in their own right.

I pretty much echo what Tony Huber (above) says re: Kentucky vs. Northfield. That is what I concluded also.

If you are going onto compare, say, a KM-1500 or Northfield with a Gibson Fern, well, there's roughly $4.5K difference there, obviously..... it does show in certain areas. Only you could decide if the difference is "worth it", however. To me, it is worth it, but that does not mean I'd class the Kentucky or Northfield as an poor quality instrument, because they're not, they are a very fine mandolin indeed. The only way to decide on that kind of point is to play as many as you can.

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Flame Maple

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## Steve Sorensen

When you start looking in the $2000 to $3000 price range for new mandolins, you have clearly decided that it is important to have a quality instrument.  The good thing about the global market place (in this case, for mandolins) is that the demand for acceptable quality at low prices has created a lot of options . . . which adds to the complexity of the decision.

The Chinese-made instruments like Kentucky, Northfield, Eastman, The Loar each offer carefully copied and well-made version of traditional mandolin designs.  

At the same time, American-made production instruments, like Weber, Collings, Gibson are also providing excellent quality, carefully made versions of the traditional mandolins and decades of team experience at making quality instruments.  

And there are also a host of us smaller builders scattered through-out the US who know we are competing with both Chinese and American production instruments and are pushed to provide extraordinary quality and customer service to play on the same field.

As is the case with many high-end products produced in China, when you buy a top-of-the-line Kentucky or Northfield, you know you will get a lot of bang for your buck . . . and you also know that you are buying from a company that is carefully implementing use of low-wage workers and CNC technology to squeeze the price as low as possible to build consistent, moderately high-end production instruments.  Of course, American production companies AND small American builders are wrestling with the same challenge of providing the most instrument at a competitive price. 

The result of this global-mando building boom is a lot of choice for players!

So, for the mandolin player, the choice is now more complicated than it ever was.  Where do you ultimately want your hard-earned money to go?  Do you buy a production instrument - sight-unseen - based upon what other folks are saying?  Do you go to stores with a wide range of instruments and play a large sample to find the one(s) that fit your hands, ears and wallet?  Do you order a production instruments with "Feature upgrades"? Do you buy a used instrument that has been out in the world for a while? Do you work with a custom builder to get an individually made instrument?

My hope, as a small hands-on mandolin builder, is that your love of the mandolin makes ALL these choices a possibility.  That is, that if you love playing the mandolin enough to pony-up for a high-end Chinese mando, you will eventually get the urge to "aim even higher" and take the next step -- where your decision is driven by an irrepressible need for responsiveness, tone, playability and collaboration with the builder in addition to price-point.

In fact, I love the current reality of global choices because I know that means there is also a whole world-full of players out there who can't stop themselves from getting the urge to play something different, something better, something special.  The sooner you start working over that Kentucky or Northfield, the sooner your playing skills and needs will grow to the point where the quest must resume!

Bon voyage!  I can't wait to hear what you decide to do . . . and see where the journey leads from there!

Steve

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hank, 

Jim Nollman, 

Sid Simpson

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## Willie Poole

So many people are caught into that trap that they need a "Big" name on the peg head of their mandolins, I have found the Kentuckys to be a good mandolin and not just to save money, they have a sound good enough to be used by a professional but also so do the Northfields, I believe some of the pros that play Northfields have been given those mandolins as sort of an advertisment ploy just to get the public to see and hear them...Maybe some of those can chime in and offer their advice....It`s hard to compare two mandolins unless you have them right side by side and do it your self so good luck with your findings...

     Willie

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## cayuga red

> When you start looking in the $2000 to $3000 price range for new mandolins, you have clearly decided that it is important to have a quality instrument.  The good thing about the global market place (in this case, for mandolins) is that the demand for acceptable quality at low prices has created a lot of options . . . which adds to the complexity of the decision.
> 
> The Chinese-made instruments like Kentucky, Northfield, Eastman, The Loar each offer carefully copied and well-made version of traditional mandolin designs.  
> 
> At the same time, American-made production instruments, like Weber, Collings, Gibson are also providing excellent quality, carefully made versions of the traditional mandolins and decades of team experience at making quality instruments.  
> 
> And there are also a host of us smaller builders scattered through-out the US who know we are competing with both Chinese and American production instruments and are pushed to provide extraordinary quality and customer service to play on the same field.
> 
> As is the case with many high-end products produced in China, when you buy a top-of-the-line Kentucky or Northfield, you know you will get a lot of bang for your buck . . . and you also know that you are buying from a company that is carefully implementing use of low-wage workers and CNC technology to squeeze the price as low as possible to build consistent, moderately high-end production instruments.  Of course, American production companies AND small American builders are wrestling with the same challenge of providing the most instrument at a competitive price. 
> ...


Thank you Steve for your very thoughtful comments.   In fact, I do support the individual builders and currently own beautiful (appearance and sound) instruments from the likes of Nyberg and Poe.

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hank

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## Jim Nollman

I recall, five years ago, these kind of comparison threads, often rated the Eastman as number one for Asian built instruments. At that time, the consensus seemed to be that you had better play one before buying, because a 515 could just as easily sound as good as a 915. In this thread, there's hardly a mention of Eastmans. Yes i am aware that the original post was comparing Northfield with high end Kentucky. But still, are Eastmans no longer in the running?

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## f5loar

5 years ago Kentucky was not making the 1500/900 nor was there a Northfield so Eastman was rated high on the best of the imports at that time.  Time changes and these newer models have surpassed the Eastmans of yesteryear.  If you can get a good price on the Eastmans they are still good on the models above the 515.  
If the Northfields are running $500 more than the KM1500 then I would buy the KM1000 and a KM900 and take my wife out to one of them fancy eatin' places where a good steak will set you back $50 without the salad and baked potato with the left over $$$. She will be more forgiving after learning you bought two mandolins at one time.

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George R. Lane

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## John Adrihan

Well you can get a 1500 right now for $2000. That puts it $1000 less than the NF. I have played them both and was more impressed with the 1500 than the NF as brand new intruments. As the NF got a little older it did improve; however, I never did play the 1500 again. I have found myself not really caring for "new" instruments anymore and not ever wanting to buy any intrument without playing it first again. "free advice" with that said.... I am not a Northfield fan I will say that to qualify my answer, but for $1000 less on the 1500 and $1500 or more less for a km1000 or km900, I would look there and then take f5loars advice and go have a big steak. All I am saying is for $3000 there are a lot of used instruments out there that need a new home.

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Jim Nollman

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Here's my take on Eastman, and it's just one person's experience and perspective:  I've played a number of Eastman over the years, and they all have a sound of their own that's neither here nor there.  They don't sound like a Gibson (or has the traditional bluegrass sound), and they don't sound like some of the other modern sounding mandolins like Collings.  I also find them to be a bit 'thin' or treble-sounding.  They may be good sounding mandolins with really nice workmanship, but I just haven't fallen in love with any of them.

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## f5loar

A $1000 difference?  Well that changes my senero.  So instead of the NF buy the KM1000 and a KM900 and take the wife on a 4 day Carnival cruise.  You enter the hairy legs and belly flop contest and win it, she will forget you bought 2 mandolins at one time.  And PS: on a Carnival cruise for $30 more you can upgrade for the big steak on the ship in their fancy upscale resturant and that includes the salad and baked "loaded" potato with appetizer and desert.

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## Glassweb

Tom, where would we be without ya?  :Laughing:

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## sgarrity

Apparently we'd be on a cruise!   :Grin:

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## Nick Gellie

I think that is a very useful discussion being had here.  Given that mandolins in the price range of a KM-1500 are well constructed and to my mind look pretty attractive as well, it really comes down to how much are we willing to pay for the tone we want and  how much time and access to mandolins in this price range do we have to try the range of mandolins on the market today.

So it seems that the more we pay for a mandolin, we are likely to get closer to the ideal tone and projection that the F5 Lloyd Loar mandolins supposedly have.  I would suggest that if can get access to a Steve Gilchrist or one of the other top mandolins, we can then determine if that they have the sound we like and want.  If we then work back down towards the top of the line modern Gibson F5s, and then down to a Kentucky KM1000 or KM 1500, we can see how close we are getting to the ideal tone and character we are looking for while paying much less than the top of the line instruments.  I think that the ideal tone, character, and projection characteristics we want can only come from playing lots of mandolins in different settings.  That way we have done lots of comparisons with the very best down to the pretty darn good mandolins such as the Kentucky KM1000 or KM1500.

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## Tom Haywood

Not exactly on subject, but after a Boxcars show last week I played the Northfield that Adam Steffy is using. He told me before the show that it is the newer less expensive one and he prefers it right now to the more expensive one he was playing. It seemed to be a very well made mandolin and easy to play. Very balanced sound and decent projection. In my hands the sound was a bit thin, but in his hands it was a perfect bluegrass mandolin, especially through the SM 57 beta mic.

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## Jim Nollman

Truly, are the ± $4-6k Gibson's any better than the ones being discussed here? I've always been of the opinion that unless you spring for a master model, a Gibson's price reflects American wages more than better mandolin quality when compared to the best Asian models. I'd expect that all at this level are built with about the same care and quality. 

Plus, if you played ten Gibson's, and then ten each of these other two, wouldn't it be a crapshoot predicting which would be your top five?

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## f5loar

There is a tremendous difference between say the KM1500 and a new Gibson F5L Fern.  The question would be is it a $4000 difference and that's just something only you the buyer/picker can determine.   I can feel a better quality in the high end Gibsons especially the MM/DMM models.  Is a decked out Cadillac DTS better than a decked out Lexus 460?  I think so but the price difference is not that much different.

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## almeriastrings

> Truly, are the ± $4-6k Gibson's any better than the ones being discussed here? I've always been of the opinion that unless you spring for a master model, a Gibson's price reflects American wages more than better mandolin quality when compared to the best Asian models.


There is a real, tangible difference.

Some of it is in detail that is not immediately obvious, unless you know where to look. For example, if you compare the pearl work on the Kentucky headstock to that on the Gibsons, they are completely different in how they are done, and the materials used. On the surface they look the same - but they're not. There are a lot of other small but important details that are done one way on the Gibsons and another on the Kentucky's (I can't comment on the Northfield's in this regard as I have not seen enough of them, I have never done any work on them, or even examined them in that kind of detail. I've only seen one). 

Gibson have had their "ups and downs" over the years, as we all know. There have been times when you would be better off with a good KM-1000 or 1500. Right now, though, they are turning out some really stunning, fine instruments. You can feel the quality the moment you take them out the case. That is confirmed when you go over them with your eye, looking for those little details. It is all those little things being done right, that come together to make a great instrument. 

You can't just go by specs on paper, either. On that basis, a KM-1000 should "blow away" say, an F-5G... but if you have played any recent F-5G's, you'll know they don't. I got to play a friend's recent F-5G not long back, and that was one impressive mandolin. The _sound_ was all there. Incidentally, the factory setups lately have been very, very good indeed too. Fine components (custom Grovers and top-class bridges) all factory supplied too. No 'upgrading' required. Even the traditional tailpieces have much heavier plating than you'll see on cheaper instruments, and the metalwork is very high quality. Little details again.

A big difference is that Gibson are drawing on a long line of top class people overseeing things, people who have been very dedicated to making the best mandolins possible, people like the late Charlie Derrington and of course, now, Dave Harvey. I think it shows, because the results speak for themselves. 

It is very important not to get too side-tracked by specs on paper... if it was that easy you could throw together a mandolin with red spruce and varnish and it would kill every lacquer/sitka instrument out there. That's not how it is, though. There is more going on 'under the hood' than that. It is the sum total of all the little details and how the top is carved and finished... the materials...the back... everything. The experience and skill of the builders involved is right at the top of the list.

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Flame Maple

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## Nick Gellie

Ok, let's hear these mandolins being played in the flesh.  I challenge the supporters of the higher end instruments to play something on their Lloyd Loar or Gibsons or whatever and play exactly the same tune on a Kentucky or a Northfield mandolin.  Anyone out there done that already or prepared to do it.  Otherwise it is just more talk and no action.

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## almeriastrings

No problem. I'll do a few comparative tracks for you: Gibson Fern vs. KM-1000 vs Jim Triggs '23 F-5.

See if you can call them correctly.

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## shortymack

Didn't you sort of do that already in a LM700 thread a while back?  KM1000, LM700, Silver Angel and a Gibson. I could definitely hear a difference in the higher ranged instruments in that comparison.

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## Jim Nollman

There's another issue that possibly muddies the waters of this discussion. I know that some of you chiming in here are primarily looking for an F5 that nails the classic bluegrass sound. So every f5 mandolin gets compared to the classic Loar tone. I suspect that the Gibsons being praised here best epitomize that sound. This is not a judgment, but an observation. Personally, if I was looking for a bluegrass mandolin and had $5000 to burn, I'd strongly consider gathering 4 or 5 Goldrush F5s into one room, and then choose the "best" among them. Why? because it has the Gibson mystique and sound, and personally, because I think it's one beautiful looking bluegrass machine.

I think we can all agree that build quality is a more objective criteria. On that level, for example, I've never seen any Eastman that  can compare to a good Gibson. I've never seen a Northfield at all, so I'll keep quiet about them. 

I sometimes play a KM1000 and a KM1500. With all due respect to the Gibson lovers among us, I do think the KM1500 is in the same ballpark in terms of build quality as any Gibson below the MM. The KM1000 was not quite there, but I have to add that I only play one instrument.

Personally, I like the bluegrass sound as much as anybody. But despite my fantasy rave about the Goldrush, I would never make it the defining factor in purchasing an F5 mandolin. 

Problem is, I can't really tell you my own defining factor, other than to say nebulous things such as: I prefer a mandolin that projects with great clarity when I barely stroke the strings. Or one that displays a pecussive "overdrive" that always surprises me with its power whenever I dig in.  :Smile:

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## John Duncan

I'd be psyched to hear those different mandos. Triple blind tasting! Yum.

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## almeriastrings

> Didn't you sort of do that already in a LM700 thread a while back?  KM1000, LM700, Silver Angel and a Gibson. I could definitely hear a difference in the higher ranged instruments in that comparison.


Yes, I did. But I'll do another with some different ones. I have a pair of Gibson Ferns here now, plus a pair of KM-1000's so can so a blind "mix and match". No two of them sound _identical,_ but you can certainly hear a "family resemblance".

PS: KM-1000's do vary quite a bit in detail work. I have one which is superb, a real knock-out mandolin. The other is not quite as impressive, but still sounds good.

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## f5loar

I was impressed with the new Gary Fern test on their website.  Two of them didn't even have the finish on them which raises the question does final finish really matter?   The late luthier CE Ward would bring me over his newest F5 copies in the green and they sounded great.  I know many luthiers string them up before finish but does that sound change that much after finish is applied?

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## Capt. E

How does the fretboard figure in to this discussion? Some of the above have flat fingerboards, some radius'd and even different nut widths etc.

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## almeriastrings

I have not forgotten I promised to cut a few comparative tracks. Been down with a bad case of the 'flu the last week or so, though, so thought you'd prefer hearing them minus the coughs and sneezes. Getting over it a bit now, so should get this done soon.

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hank, 

John Duncan

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## Nick Triesch

I find it interesting that "sound is subjective"  only applies  to ordinary mandolin players.   But the sound is not subjective when it comes to guys like Adam Steffey.

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## John Duncan

> I find it interesting that "sound is subjective"  only applies  to ordinary mandolin players.   But the sound is not subjective when it comes to guys like Adam Steffey.


I agree with you. I still _sound_ like me whether its on my A style that I built or my F style " The Glenn". But, when I am playing those mandolins in similar situations, whether its a jam, or a show in a large noisy bar or an outdoor gig, they both affect my playing differently. 

For me, it is a totally mental thing. I "think" one sounds louder and has more presence than the other and is "easier" to play in the sense that I do not have to struggle for volume. But, when I go back and listen to recordings of both mandolins on a lot of the same songs, the tone is the absolute same.

I think other people have similar experiences.

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## almeriastrings

> I find it interesting that "sound is subjective"  only applies  to ordinary mandolin players.   But the sound is not subjective when it comes to guys like Adam Steffey.


Not totally sure I understand what you are saying... quite a lot of pickers even at that level, go though a heck of a lot of different instruments... Monroe, Scruggs, Tony Rice and Sam Bush (for example) are strongly identified with specific instruments, but they are outnumbered by people who 'chop and change' pretty regularly, for various reasons. Anything from sponsorship, to plain old MAS, to just liking a change now and again.  Those instruments do not sound identical to _them_ (at least the folk I have asked about this have all said they hear/feel the differences ). Though you or I may not hear it on stage, or on recordings. Sometimes you certainly CAN hear it. Norman Blake, for example...he has been though a store load of instruments, and his "tone" has changed very frequently as a result.

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## John Duncan

> Tony Rice .... strongly identified with specific instruments...


I think Tony Rice is an example of what Nick is talking about. Take for example that Tony has used several guitars on his different solo albums including an ovation on Manzanita. Many, many people do not hear the difference between Rice's "Antique", his Santa Cruz, or an Ovation because of who is driving them.  :Grin: 

But, I'd be willing to bet that Tony Rice can tell a _very huge significant_ difference.

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## f5loar

Don't forget the Grisman "Tone Poems" project.  Rice was in on that too.  I have yet to figure who these special pickers like Rice, Monroe, Watson, Scruggs,Reno, Grisman, etc.  seem to always be able to pull a certain tone out of whatever they are playing .  Remember the Grisman Quintet when they were all using Kentucky instruments in the early 80's.

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## tburcham

> There is a real, tangible difference.
> 
> Some of it is in detail that is not immediately obvious, unless you know where to look. For example, if you compare the pearl work on the Kentucky headstock to that on the Gibsons, they are completely different in how they are done, and the materials used. On the surface they look the same - but they're not. There are a lot of other small but important details that are done one way on the Gibsons and another on the Kentucky's (I can't comment on the Northfield's in this regard as I have not seen enough of them, I have never done any work on them, or even examined them in that kind of detail. I've only seen one). 
> 
> Gibson have had their "ups and downs" over the years, as we all know. There have been times when you would be better off with a good KM-1000 or 1500. Right now, though, they are turning out some really stunning, fine instruments. You can feel the quality the moment you take them out the case. That is confirmed when you go over them with your eye, looking for those little details. It is all those little things being done right, that come together to make a great instrument. 
> 
> You can't just go by specs on paper, either. On that basis, a KM-1000 should "blow away" say, an F-5G... but if you have played any recent F-5G's, you'll know they don't. I got to play a friend's recent F-5G not long back, and that was one impressive mandolin. The _sound_ was all there. Incidentally, the factory setups lately have been very, very good indeed too. Fine components (custom Grovers and top-class bridges) all factory supplied too. No 'upgrading' required. Even the traditional tailpieces have much heavier plating than you'll see on cheaper instruments, and the metalwork is very high quality. Little details again.
> 
> A big difference is that Gibson are drawing on a long line of top class people overseeing things, people who have been very dedicated to making the best mandolins possible, people like the late Charlie Derrington and of course, now, Dave Harvey. I think it shows, because the results speak for themselves. 
> ...


I agree completely with Almeria's post.  As many of you know, Almeria and I share similar mandolin tastes, i,e., we both love David Harvey Gibsons and Ken Ratcliff's Silverangel mandolins.  He's right on the money about the small details and what's under the hood, particularly with recent Gibsons.  Like Almeria, I believe the Kentucky KM 1000 is an absolutely fabulous mandolin for the money and multiples of the money.  Used models selling for $,1000 to $1,200 represent an astonishing bang for the buck ratio!

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## almeriastrings

The contenders...







Recorded straight to a Tascam DR-100 Mk. II using the internal mics set to unidirectional. Both mandolins with J-74's and played with the same pick (Bluechip) one after the other, from exactly the same position. Tried to play pretty much identically (as far as possible)....not easy.

http://soundcloud.com/almeria-strings/mandolintest

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Astro, 

ebeja, 

hank, 

John Duncan, 

Scot Thayer, 

shortymack, 

Tiderider

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## shortymack

The first one has got to be the fern. Thats one beautiful KM1000.

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## John Duncan

I think they both sound awesome. My guess is that the first one is the Kentucky and the second is the Gibson. I only listened twice but, I am going with my gut.

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## George R. Lane

I believe the first one has to be the Gibson, it sounded great. The second one didn't seem to have the depth of the first one.
Am I right?
Do I get a prize??

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## ebeja

I too would say the first track is the Fern, however both are played and sound fantastic!!

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## tburcham

I'm going with the Kentucky first followed by The Gibson.  I agree with the other posts, both sound very nice and great picking there!

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## Scot Thayer

I'd say first is the Gibson, second is the Kentucky.

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## FLATROCK HILL

Excellent playing and thanks for taking the time and effort to follow through with this project. 
I'm guessing the Kentucky first, Gibson Fern second. I don't really care if I'm right or not though. They both sound great and either way, I'm proud to own a MM Kentucky. All I need now is someone who can play it like that!

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## bluenote23

Played by almeriastrings, both of these instruments just sound terrific!
The first is a little warmer. The second is brighter but the tone is a little thinner. First is the Gibson. But if I could make a mandolin sound like either one of these, I would be a very happy player.

Oh, I listened using a pair of fairly high quality headphones.

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## pefjr

:Laughing: This reminds me of the Stradivarius test with four experts. IIRC they all chose the wrong Violin. I predict half of you guys will be right and half wrong. I could flip a coin and get the same results. I think almeriastrings played only one mandolin and is trying to trick us. I say they sound the same. Just kidding. I thought the first one had more volume, therefore it's the Gibson.

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## Tiderider

Thank you very much for putting up this comparison, you've produced a fine tone from both contenders.  To my ears the second has a more dry focused sound so I'm calling it the Gibson.

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## Don Grieser

Fine job on Scrooge!! Perfect for the season. 

They do sound very close. I don't have much experience with recent Gibsons, but I'd say the first one sounds most like my KM900.

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## texaspaul

I guess we do hear differently, based on many factors many which are subjective.  To me the first mandolin had a bit more bite in the treble and the second seemed fuller in the bass (woody) thus I would have guessed the 1st to be the Ky and the 2nd the Fern.

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## lgibjones

I used to own a KM900, and I'm guessing the second is the KM1500.  Very curious to hear the result, and thank you for the comparison.

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## Bradley

Kentucky first ....Then the Gibson second is my vote. Great Post by the way

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## almeriastrings

I'll post the answer a bit later... keep the guesses coming! They are both very, very good mandolins..... 

This was the very first time I'd used the Tascam DR-100 Mk.II with its internal mics, by the way, so this was a double test in that respect. Normally, I'd use a pair of Neumann KM-184's or Rode M3's for something like this. I was very impressed by how the supplied mics sounded. Amazing considering the whole recorder package is available now for well under $300.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Really appreciate you doing the comparative samples almeriastrings.  I went back and forth a couple times, esp to listen to the higher notes, and to my ears, the first mandolin has more 'meat' in the higher notes, and a bit more depth (or complexity) in the bass. As such I'm going with the first being the Gibson, and the second the Kentucky.   Can't wait to find out what the result is.

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## f5loar

Wait a minute.....  did one mandolin have the toneguard on the other no toneguard or did you take it off and put it on the other one?

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## almeriastrings

I removed it for the recording. I was waiting for someone to notice that  :Smile:

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## FLATROCK HILL

Another consideration, referring to some theories being discussed on a concurrent thread...

Did you put the first mandolin into service without giving it a chance to wake up? Rude treatment like that would surely put it at a disadvantage. 

Was the second mandolin allowed to listen to the first, and thereby subjected to ambient vibrations and molecular movement, ie heat? It probably should have been put in an isolation booth so as not to have unfairly raised its level of consciousness. :Smile:

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## CES

Will guess Kentucky 1st, Gibson 2nd, but I think I liked the tone of the first one a little bit better regardless.  I was able to pick out the Silverangel in the other test you did without any hesitation (because I play one as well), but this is tough, and I won't be surprised if I'm totally wrong.

Great picking, btw!  Thanks for posting the comparison, am interested to hear the results...

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## Willie Poole

Boy, How we all hear differently...Myself, I won`t say which I thought was which but for my taste I like the sound of the second one best, not by much and a little tweaking on the EQ if I was playing #1 on stage it could be made to sound exactly the same...I have made sound tests on all five of the mandolins that I own and they seem to be almost identical when playing back the tapes but I do know they all sound a little different when listened to straight out without going through a sound system....

   I am waiting to see which was which...Great picking by the way....

    Willie

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## guitarpath

I just listened once, and I immediately thought:

1st: Gibson
2nd: Kentucky

They both sound very nice. I imagine that the differences are more obvious to the player rather than the audience. Still, the first one to me had more depth than the second (which is also a fine-sounding mandolin).

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John Duncan

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## almeriastrings

It is very interesting to see how the guesses panned out. Doing this from recordings is _very_ challenging. The differences are indeed somewhat more obvious when you have them in your hands, but the recordings do fairly accurately convey the major 'trends' each mandolin displays in real life. 

No. 1 is the Gibson. This is a Harvey signed, post flood example, now one year old. This mandolin has a lot of volume. It also has a 'rich' and complex tone that both cuts through, and does not sacrifice clarity to get that complexity. It has a good low end without muddiness, and beautifully defined highs. It is a delight to play. You hit a few notes and find yourself grinning. It sounds like you want a mandolin to sound like.  It is a _wonderful_ mandolin. 

No. 2 is the Kentucky. This is a 2008 model. It is a particularly 'dry' example, tone-wise. It is not (quite) as loud in dB as the Gibson, but cuts very well. It is definitely well into in the 'Loar-tinged' camp in terms of voicing. It is really well made, with spectacular materials. Fit and finish are phenomenal when you consider the price... it is a very fine mandolin in its own right, and anyone could use this on stage or in the studio and get great results. It is most categorically a 'professional' grade instrument. I have played some individual luthier-built and well-known brands in the $4K+ bracket I liked a lot less than this Kentucky. I found this one on Ebay a couple of years back for $850...... best $850 I spent in a long while. 

I'll do a couple more tracks, with guitar backup, as that gives an idea of how they 'mesh' and 'cut' in a different context. It is always fun doing comparisons, they're very informative. Thanks for all the comments!

----------

ebeja, 

hank, 

John Duncan, 

Nick Gellie, 

Scot Thayer, 

Tiderider

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## John Duncan

Thanks for doing that almeria. It was very interesting! I guessed (wrongly) based off my preferences and I really liked the Kentucky!

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## CES

> Thanks for doing that almeria. It was very interesting! I guessed (wrongly) based off my preferences and I really liked the Kentucky!


As did I, but it shouldn't surprise me that I liked the Gibson's tone better...my ears seem to be leading me to instruments with more dollar signs of late...stupid ears...

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## grassrootphilosopher

> It is very interesting to see how the guesses panned out. Doing this from recordings is _very_ challenging. The differences are indeed somewhat more obvious when you have them in your hands, but the recordings do fairly accurately convey the major 'trends' each mandolin displays in real life. 
> 
> No. 1 is the Gibson. This is a Harvey signed, post flood example, now one year old. This mandolin has a lot of volume. It also has a 'rich' and complex tone that both cuts through, and does not sacrifice clarity to get that complexity. It has a good low end without muddiness, and beautifully defined highs. It is a delight to play. You hit a few notes and find yourself grinning. It sounds like you want a mandolin to sound like.  It is a _wonderful_ mandolin. 
> 
> No. 2 is the Kentucky. This is a 2008 model. It is a particularly 'dry' example, tone-wise. It is not (quite) as loud in dB as the Gibson, but cuts very well. It is definitely well into in the 'Loar-tinged' camp in terms of voicing. It is really well made, with spectacular materials. Fit and finish are phenomenal when you consider the price... it is a very fine mandolin in its own right, and anyone could use this on stage or in the studio and get great results. It is most categorically a 'professional' grade instrument. I have played some individual luthier-built and well-known brands in the $4K+ bracket I liked a lot less than this Kentucky. I found this one on Ebay a couple of years back for $850...... best $850 I spent in a long while. 
> 
> I'll do a couple more tracks, with guitar backup, as that gives an idea of how they 'mesh' and 'cut' in a different context. It is always fun doing comparisons, they're very informative. Thanks for all the comments!



I have liked this comparison and your "other" comparison (was it "The Loar" thing?) I thought that No.1 was the Gibson (yeah, sure...) but was ashamed to be wrong if I didn´t figure the recording and its variables right?

I have yet a request that results from a simple critique. The tonal characteristics of an instrument are revealed by using as many of the possible diverse playing techniques.

For once, I found both - the previous "The Loar" soundclouds and this here soundbyte - recordings too fast. The notes merged, bled into each other. May it be playing style or other factors (I noticed the same with  pjlama´s Stanley review), I think that the mandolin does not show it´s proper potential.

I would therefore like a recording that shows singlestring fiddletune style picking (think "My Sweet Blueeyed Darling" in a late 80ies Monroe version), blues style licks (think "Bluegrass Stomp" or better the intro to tunes like "Sally Joe"), maybe throwing in a crosspicking lick or two... I do not think that it´s necessary to play faster than 80 beats per minute, think Foggy Mountain Special (or Foggy Mountain Rock). 

Whatever you do, Ebenezer Scrooge lends itself to that kind of playing also. And you can do it nicely.

I would also be very interested to listen to your 39er as a rythm backup. All without reverb and other enhancements.

And I think that Tascam makes a great product for bluegrass musicians. I´ve got an older one that I can only burn CD-s with (from around 2000; no USB or whatever). Got to figure out how to load tracks from the Tascam to the Computer...)

I´ll be looking forward to your response towards my criticism and to your soundbytes.

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## greg_tsam

Aww, I got here too late to guess.  Mando #1 is obviously louder and and has more treble where Mando #2 seemed to lack this clarity and seemed slightly muddled.  My first knee jerk guess was Kentucky/Gibson and then almost immediately flip flopped to Gibson/Kentucky.  Reason being is it was loud, clear and clean which a lot of folks might classify as tinny or cheap and the second sounded a little "older", open and mellow.  Personally, I hate the way mandolins sound when amplified or electrified in these situations.  They sound so much more awesome in real life.

Everyone expects the Gibson's to be more refined and have that "sound" but it's always so difficult to tell.  How about you find a nice Breedlove FF and throw it in there for comparison?  My sounds really nice but I hate running it through a PA or amplifier.

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## almeriastrings

> I would therefore like a recording that shows singlestring fiddletune style picking (think "My Sweet Blueeyed Darling" in a late 80ies Monroe version), blues style licks (think "Bluegrass Stomp" or better the intro to tunes like "Sally Joe"), maybe throwing in a crosspicking lick or two... I do not think that it´s necessary to play faster than 80 beats per minute, think Foggy Mountain Special (or Foggy Mountain Rock)..


I take your point that it does help to hear an instrument do different things... certainly in future I'll throw in a few slow bluesy licks and a bit of crosspicking. You're right. Blue Grass Stomp is a good one for putting a mando through its paces. Not sure about "My Sweet Blue Eyed Darling" being at less that 80 BPM, though, I have not measured it, but Monroe used to move along pretty quick on that one! Of course, you could add in chops and tremolo.. but there's only so much you can do in a short clip. 

There were no artificial FX or added reverb, by the way. I just recorded that in a very nice sounding room. It has a hard tile floor and hard walls, and lots of heavy wooden furniture. It always records instruments like mando, banjo and fiddle well. I used a broadband absorber behind me, and another to the side, not enough to kill the reflections, just enough to tame them a bit.

Greg, unfortunately, I don't have a Breedlove mandolin! I do have a guitar (a prototype 'dread personally voiced by Kim which is great), but unless someone sends me an unexpected present later this month... nothing with 8 strings....

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## roberto

Nº1 sounds so beautiful!!

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## yankees1

> I believe the first one has to be the Gibson, it sounded great. The second one didn't seem to have the depth of the first one.
> Am I right?
> Do I get a prize??


 I agree ! The second one sounded pretty thin compared to the Gibson !

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## yankees1

OP was difference between the Northfield and Kentucky but I would like to hear the sound differences between the Gibson and Northfield.

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## Jim Nollman

Both sound great, and also, somewhat different. As the responses hint, neither is "better" sounding than the other. These responses are all over the woodwork, and seem to verify that you can't judge a mandolin by looking at the cover.

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## Bernie Daniel

Awesome test -- very well conducted.  Great playing too.

I also got here too late -- but I read the string from the first post through to the last so I made my guess before saw the right answer.  

As it happens I guessed correctly: Gibson first then Kentucky.  I made my choice in a manner much like what others have noted  -- the first mandolin had slightly louder, albeit richer and more complex sound - 100 years of tradition and breeding shows through.  

If it were a taste test the first "wine" produced a more "rounded pallet", i.e. , a more satisfying sensation in the mouth.   :Smile:

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## John Kinn

> Awesome test -- very well conducted.  Great playing too.
> 
> I also got here too late -- but I read the string from the first post through to the last so I made my guess before saw the right answer.  
> 
> As it happens I guessed correctly: Gibson first then Kentucky.  I made my choice in a manner much like what others have noted  -- the first mandolin had slightly louder, albeit richer and more complex sound - 100 years of tradition and breeding shows through.  
> 
> If it were a taste test the first "wine" produced a more "rounded pallet", i.e. , a more satisfying sensation in the mouth.


+1. The Gibson sounded "fatter", in lack of a better word.

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## almeriastrings

Yes, that does have a 'meatier', richer voice..in addition to quite a bit more volume,  but.... I'd add that my _other_ Fern (March 29, 2000) signed by Charlie Derrinton, is kind of mid-way between that and 'drier' voice of the KM-1000, though it too has lots of volume.... so, you definitely get quite a bit of variation, even between "identical" models.... put 5 side-by-side and they all have their own characters, newer mandos or original Loars. I'd very much like to try a Northfield for an extended period - only ever seen one, and that was not under ideal conditions. My initial impression was that it was a fine mandolin.

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## grassrootphilosopher

> I take your point that it does help to hear an instrument do different things... certainly in future I'll throw in a few slow bluesy licks and a bit of crosspicking. You're right. Blue Grass Stomp is a good one for putting a mando through its paces. Not sure about "My Sweet Blue Eyed Darling" being at less that 80 BPM, though, I have not measured it, but Monroe used to move along pretty quick on that one! Of course, you could add in chops and tremolo.. but there's only so much you can do in a short clip.


Sweet Blue Eyed Darling is played pretty quickly by Bill Monroe, definately a lot faster than 80 bpms. I just named that tune because it is quite nice for fiddle technique on the mandolin, you could throw in a tremolo here and there, a bluesy intro or outro, some chop licks... It´s not a blues powerhouse tune like BG Stomp but it has its qualities if you do not want to get really slow (like maybe Smoky Mt Schottische, Evening Prayer Blues, Slow And Easy Blues etc.)

I would still like to hear your clips (or maybe part of them) with the addition of one of your guitars (recorded under the same conditions.

A good effort to show the differences in two mandolins anyhow.

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## Mock Schimock

Come see my band, Larry Keel and Natural Bridge, on the Mountain Song at Sea cruise with my newly endorsed, master model F5 by James Bernabe!!!! .... If I get a flight case by the, maybe I can bring the Brazilian rosewood '76 Tennessee A as well!!

www.bernabemandolins.com

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## Keith Witty

I want to bump this. Almeria, now that you own a Northfield, what are your thoughts?

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## almeriastrings

I have been enormously impressed by the Northfield. I find myself playing it a lot. It's very well made, using great materials (this one has the 'upgraded' wood option),great 'fit and finish'  and I really cannot fault it. It sounds powerful, complex, and I've played some mandolins at three times the price I like less. It's a really high class instrument, by any standards. Most certainly a serious contender in the mandolin market. Now, as always, there will be some variability, and not everyone's preferences run the same way, but I'd say that anyone looking for a really fine mandolin should at least check these out (if they can find one). 

I see you have #121!

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## cayuga red

> I have been enormously impressed by the Northfield. I find myself playing it a lot. It's very well made, using great materials (this one has the 'upgraded' wood option),great 'fit and finish'  and I really cannot fault it. It sounds powerful, complex, and I've played some mandolins at three times the price I like less. It's a really high class instrument, by any standards. Most certainly a serious contender in the mandolin market. Now, as always, there will be some variability, and not everyone's preferences run the same way, but I'd say that anyone looking for a really fine mandolin should at least check these out (if they can find one). 
> 
> I see you have #121!



Almeria Strings  My original question was based on a comparison of Ky 1500 and Northfield.  Now that you have a Northfield, I'd love to hear how it compares with your Ky 1000 (and the post-flood Gibson).  Thanks again for your willingness to  provide us with very good comparisons.  Your playing is superb!

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