# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Radiused vs. flat fingerboard on mandolin?

## polkat

Put simply, what are the advantages of a radiused fingerboard over a flat one on a mandolin? Or disadvantages for that matter?

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## sunburst

Personal preference, pure and simple. It's an advantage if you like it, it's a disadvantage if you don't.

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## RichM

Exactly. I like radiused on guitar, flat on a mandolin. Just feels better. You'll find as many people who disagree with me as agree.

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## Jim Baker

I just build an octave mandolin with a 12" radius. It's nice to play but, without a comparison It's hard to tell if it's any nicer than flat. In theory it should be easier to pick I'd say.

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## rico mando

makes a big difference on string bending.

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## MikeEdgerton

You might want to scan through these threads.

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## woodwizard

> Personal preference, pure and simple. It's an advantage if you like it, it's a disadvantage if you don't.


I gotta be with John on this one ... personal preference, pure and simple.

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## Rob Gerety

I've got one flat and one with a radius and I like them both - go figure.

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## polkat

Okay, I read all the posts and the general concenses is that there's usually no perceptable difference, or at least that each type can be equally played by folks here. So that begs the next question. How did radiused boards get started? Who first thought it would be a better idea and why? 

Here's what I'm aiming at; I'm a fairly new mandolin player (ex-fiddler) with shortish, fat fingers, and I have a heck of a time fretting, particularly with chords. I was just wondering of a radiused board would help me?

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## Mandocarver

I'm sure other's will disagree, but I was told that radiussed fingerboards are more helpful to people with large hands and long fingers. This at least fits my experience -I have small hands and have found chords easier on a flat board. I should think that the difficulties with fretting chords comes from the fact that as an ex-fiddler, it is simply such a new activity for the OP.

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## polkat

Well, I gave the wrong impression somehow. My fingers are short, stubby and fat, but my hands are big! If I try to play a chord where two fingers sit next to each other on side by side strings, it feels like there's no room for both, and the resulting sound is, well, not yet worth mentioning. I was thinking that perhaps a radiused (and maybe slightly wider?) fingerboard might help. I also played guitar, and had no problem with this.

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## Phil Goodson

> ... If I try to play a chord where two fingers sit next to each other on side by side strings, it feels like there's no room for both, ....


Lots of us use a single fingertip to cover 4 strings in this situation.  Conditions vary.
Time is also likely to help.  I started out liking a wider fingerboard because of this.  Now, after a few years, the narrow board is okay too.  (I do like a little radius on my boards.)

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## Shelagh Moore

I have one with a very narrow neck and flat fingerboard and another with a wider neck and radiused fingerboard and happily use both although I find the wider, radiused one more comfortable for extended periods of playing. I have large hands and wide longish fingers. So I think like others it's down more to personal preference than anything else.

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## Rob Gerety

I'm basically the same as the OP.  Came from acoustic guitar.  Perceived the same issues - still do to some extent.  I think this is all about technique, not so much equipment.  Over time I have adapted and the problems/issues have diminished. You develop little tricks to deal with the issues.  I am reminded of the excellent local fiddler, Rodney Miller, who has huge hands and plays a tiny little fiddle board with great skill, and Muriel Anderson who has tiny hands and plays a two inch wide flat classical guitar board.

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## Mike Snyder

My mandolin has a very narrow nut and fingerboard. I had it radiused when the original frets were replaced with ones of medium width.
The radius is 10 1/2 inch. All of this incidental info on us and our instruments isn't going to be much use to the OP. Play as many mandolins as is possible. Determine what works for you and what does not. That is what I did. I like a radius. Seems to play better for me.

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## EdHanrahan

FWIW, there's a bit of interplay between radius and fingerboard width.  A radiused board seems to be wider because the non-fretted strings are in a slightly lower plane and are "ducking out of the way" of the fretting fingers; thus, the radiused board acts as if it's wider than it measures.

And since "a straight line is the shortest distance between two points", the surface of a radiused board really IS "wider" (as in: NOT the shortest distance) than a flat board with the same measurement across.  That may be detailed in Frank Ford's Frets.com site - well worth looking up.

What I like about radiused boards is that the extra space that you feel when fretting a single pair of strings does NOT translate to extra space when you fret 2 pairs with one finger; those strings now feel as if they're in the same plane!  (Guess I should get me one, someday!)

Of course, this says nothing about what feels best for *your* hand and technique.  Enjoy the search!

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## mandotrout777

I came to mandolin from guitar and until recently had never owned a mandolin that had a flat fretboard.  I just bought a Kentucky with a flat board and frankly, even when I play them back to back, I can't tell much difference.  My hands are a little on the small side; dont' know if that makes any difference or not.

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Hendrik Luurtsema

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## DerTiefster

I had comments like Ed's but wasn't quite confident adding them here.  But I'll go ahead anyway....

I have a flat fretboard mandolin and one with a radiused fretboard.  I observed during my learning about the differences that the flat fretboard required more care in plucking the desired string than the radiused board.  I decided this was because on the flat board, the fretted string was in a deeper well and my pick had to go down into the hole to pluck the string.  On the radiused board, each string is "above" its pair of neighbors, and when fretted it is not recessed as much.  Therefore I didn't have to take as much care to pluck it without also plucking its neighbors.  That is the lesson -I- took away from playing both of these instruments.  I had wondered what the attraction was for radiused frets, and now I have one idea of why they are attractive.  I do not have a similar idea of why the flat board is desirable to those who favor it.  It would be nice to know whether it is because of a "left-hand" fretting hand issue which runs counter to the "right-hand" picking hand issue I was able to identify with.

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## JeffD

> I was just wondering of a radiused board would help me?


Give both a try next time you are out mandolin tasting at a shop or a festival or a jam. 

For me the radiused feels a little easier to play, but not so much more that I would pay a lot extra to get one. Other criteria make more difference to me.

Given the choice between two mandolins, one radiused and one not, I would pick the one that sounded better.  :Grin:

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## Lefty Luthier

My customers tend to prefer radius about 2:1. Personally, I see no merit in a radius board but it is such a personal issue that I never offer any advice.

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Hendrik Luurtsema

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## Nelson Peddycoart

I am a radius guy, but I have one of each.  I find the radius one exposes more of the fingerboard to my sight, if that makes any sense.

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## polkat

Well, again, what I'm hearing here is that while most of you don't see a major difference in playing flat or radiused, given two mandolins with equal sound but one flat and the other radiused, most of you would go for the radiused. Must be _some_ kind of appeal there!

Playing violin (which of course has a radiused board much smaller then a mandolin) I never had this problem. But then of course you rarely play more then two note chords on a fiddle.

Mike Snyder has it right I think. I need to get out there and try a number of mandos.

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## Michael Lewis

For a given width of fingerboard a radiused one will have slightly more room between strings.  The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so a curved line is obviously longer.

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## John Kinn

I think it's mostly about habit. When you play an instrument over time, you adapt to it, so this particular instrument will feel "right". This is not to say that you can't change.We humans are quite adaptable.I'm playing about 50/50 guitar and mandolin.A lot greater difference than flat/radiused..but I wouldn't play an unknown mandolin for the first time in front of a live audience. That would be uncomfortable, so I would feel much better with something I had played for a while.

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## John Bertotti

Personally I don't really know. I do however find that width of fret board and shape of meck makes the biggst difference to me.

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## bobby bill

> On the radiused board, each string is "above" its pair of neighbors, and when fretted it is not recessed as much.


It seems like any picking advantage you would get by having each string above its neighbor on a radiused board would be lost when strumming.  Unless you could figure out how to strum in an arc (and who knows, maybe you could) you would be giving louder voice to some strings than others because the pick would be digging in deeper on those "above" strings.

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## 45ACP-GDLF5

I was reared on the flatboard (radiused didn't exist yet) but have owned both.  There is of course, a difference, but neither one is better than the other.  It's a personal preference.

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## EdHanrahan

> ... Unless you could figure out how to strum in an arc (and who knows, maybe you could) you would be giving louder voice to some strings than others because the pick would be digging in deeper on those "above" strings.


Conceptually, that's true.  But the radius is so slight that in practice, I suspect, any string-to-string difference in volume is negligible.  Otherwise, the opposite should also be true: that a flat board will cause a lower volume on middle-string only chords, such as a 2-finger C or 1-finger Em, and I don't think we've noticed that.

And hey, just 'cause I've liked the feel of radiused boards doesn't mean that I actually play one; I don't!  Maybe when I save up for THAT ideal mando...

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## Kerry Krishna

I find radiused boards to be very comfortable. That said, after playing on one for about 15 years, I sure do enjoy playing a non radiused mando whenever I get a chance.

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## Eddie Sheehy

I have both types.  I can't say one is better or worse than the other, I don't think there's much of a difference because if you asked me which of my mandos were radiused and which were flat I'd have to actually go and  look at them...and yet when I'm selling a mando whether or not it's radiused becomes a deal-breaker...

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## John Bertotti

When I ordered form Oldwave i don't think I specified one way or the otehr but like I said above I think the neck shape and baord width make the biggest difference in playability. Am I the only one who thinks like this?

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## woodwizard

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned John Monteleone and David Grisman. To me when Monteleone made a radiused fingerboard for David Grisman to ease his tendonnitis/tennis elbow was when the radiused fingerboard came to my attention and the rest of the mandolin world. I'm sure others were probably doing it but those two guys I think made a lot of people aware of that option. I may be wrong but that's what I'm thinking.

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## fishtownmike

To me I prefer a flat finger board. I guess its because of years of playing them and probably nothing more then that. I kinda hate that many builders are automatically including radiused boards on their instruments without a flat option. I have noticed that all the Eastmans and Kentucky mandolins I have seen are radiused...Mike

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## Glassweb

Flat board. If Loar thought a radiused board was appropriate for a mandolin no doubt he would have introduced it, given all his other nods to the violin. Lyon and Healy used a radiused board though...

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## mandolirius

At the suggestion of David Grisman (talking with him after a show in Vancouver in the early 80's) I spent what was a lot of money for me at the time, about $300, to have my Givens A-stye board changed to radiused. I did notice a difference, mostly because I was trying to play Grisman's music and learning new types of chords. A lot of them seemed to involve barring the middle two strings and that was a lot easier with a radius board. I played that mandolin for about 25 years. Now I have one of each and don't notice that much of a difference. Given a choice I'd go with radiused but the way I feel now I wouldn't pay to have my flatboard converted.

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