# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  1923 Fern Loar F5

## Darryl Wolfe

Dan has posted some new photos of this mandolin on the Archive

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/73755

This thing is really a unique find

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## Gary Hedrick

So this is one that had not been known before?

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## Darryl Wolfe

Correct

George just sent me this:

"Adam Steffey was in yesterday and played several of our mandolins including the 23 Fern which he said is one of the finest F-5s he has ever heard."

George

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## Scotti Adams

Adam posted his views in the General Discussion area.

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## HoGo

Do I see some repair under the nut on neck? It looks like there's new wood inserted at an angle visible on bass side and perhaps even more of that on treble side of neck. Hard to tell exactly from tha small pics in the archive.

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## Gary Hedrick

I find it a little amazing that these keep showing up.....be it not frequently but still showing up. I was part of such a find back in the late 90's when a lady walked into a music store in Clovis, CA and sold her "wall hanging" to them......then to my brother and then to Charlie Derrington.....

So there is hope for all of us to  find that special gem......

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## Fretbear

Where has this beauty been hiding?

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## f5loar

Not too amazing as the remaining 2 dozen or so unfound Loars turn up in today's times.  You consider the original owners were in their 20's when they bought them new in 1922,1923 and 1924.  They are all dead now which means the mandolin was passed down to their children which is a generation that generally held onto their family heirlooms.  It is the children or grandchildren of the original owner that are selling them out due to the current economic times and the internet.  They find out what grandpa's old mandolin is worth on the net and off it goes to the highest buyer.  This is how this Fern turned up at Gruhns.

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## Scotti Adams

> Do I see some repair under the nut on neck? It looks like there's new wood inserted at an angle visible on bass side and perhaps even more of that on treble side of neck. Hard to tell exactly from tha small pics in the archive.


I noticed that as well

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## Gary Hedrick

Well Tom I suppose that make sense.......the farther away from the sanctity given to the original owner the less family value and the greater willingness to cash in on Grandpa's or Great Grandpa's heirloom 

So when are one of you big three here on the list going to find one.........or perhaps you already have.....

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## MikeEdgerton

I totally understand the situation Tom is describing. I have instrument I inherited from the 20's (not a mandolin, a Martin uke) that was the first instrument I learned to play. It has meaning to me but I'm going to guess that the instruments my kids grew up looking at and listening to will mean more to them than this one does. I only wish that my step-father had been a mandolin player.

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## Darryl Wolfe

I do not know the story yet, but this is no longer on the inventory list.  Waiting to here the scoop

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## f5loar

If it sold at $225K then one can assume the recession is now over!

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## Spruce

> If it sold at $225K then one can assume the recession is now over!


The recession never occurred for a good percentage of the folks who can afford to pony up 225K for a mandolin...   :Wink:

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## imleath

> The recession never occurred for a good percentage of the folks who can afford to pony up 225K for a mandolin...


I'd imagine it's around 0%.

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## f5loar

don't forget those 1% folks.  They spend $225K on home security.

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## Utility Picker

> don't forget those 1% folks.  They spend $225K on home security.


Their money.  With $225K (discretional cash), I'd opt for the Fern.

UP

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## Andrew B. Carlson

Money well spent these days.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

> The recession never occurred for a good percentage of the folks who can afford to pony up 225K for a mandolin...


So true. I imagine for those folks, recessions are like Christmas sale where they can pick up everything from properties and vintage mandolins for cheap.

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## Darryl Wolfe

The deal on this mandolin fell through.  Back on market

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## Ken Waltham

Wow. I have some thoughts on that....

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## Darryl Wolfe

I am not at liberty to say much, but the deal was firm and valid and still may go through.  The purchasers funding via another totally different situation abruptly did not materialize

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## f5loar

that seems to be the norm these days.  You got it but you ain't got it.  I hear that all the time.

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## Andrew B. Carlson

I hope a player gets it. Maybe unlikely though. Who's got Loars for sale right now? I know Elderly has 3, Mandolin Bros has 1 and Gruhn has this one. I always make sure I have one picked out (by photos anyway), in case I win the lottery. Which reminds me, I better start buying lottery tickets.

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## William Smith

> I hope a player gets it. Maybe unlikely though. Who's got Loars for sale right now? I know Elderly has 3, Mandolin Bros has 1 and Gruhn has this one. I always make sure I have one picked out (by photos anyway), in case I win the lottery. Which reminds me, I better start buying lottery tickets.


I'm with ya on the lottery thing,heck if I win I'll buy 2 and maybe burn one at a festival..or spray paint it Blue? Yeh right but didn't someone do that back in the day or is that just more "Loar",,Buzzzzzz?,,yep they should be played and loved!,I know of one that hasn't left a safe in years,,,,,,
 If I ever win the lottery I'd honestly give one away! :Grin:

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## tree

Bump.

It's baaack.

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## Darryl Wolfe

Sam Bush thinks this is the best sounding Loar he has played.  Others have had similar comments about it.  No financial interest here, just passing info along.  This apparently is a very special sounding Loar, and it is extremely unique.

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## walter carter

The areas under the nut that look like cracks or wood splices are not. They are just unusual grain lines.

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## Jonathan James

Hopefully this Fern will end up in the hands of a pro, so we can see it out and about and getting played, as opposed to a collector...

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## John Duncan

Not many players can afford that.

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## f5loar

Maybe you can get one of those "car deals" to buy it.  Like 0% interest for 10 years would make the payments about $1740.00 per month.  While that sounds like a lot many make that kind of a payment on a house or a fancy car.  I have yet to find a house or car I could pick and sound that good.

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## Hallmark498

> Sam Bush thinks this is the best sounding Loar he has played.  Others have had similar comments about it.  No financial interest here, just passing info along.  This apparently is a very special sounding Loar, and it is extremely unique.


Im no Sam Bush  :Mandosmiley: , but was able to play this mando at SPBGMA....The action was a little higher than I liked.  The sound was KILLER!  Best mandolin Ive ever played. (think this was my 8th Loar to play)

It had some little things going on, (repairs or such on the binding, something funky with the scroll) but in really great condition.  Note...Im not a repair guy or pro player, just a guy that likes mandos and guitars, these are only observations.

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## Tom C

> Maybe you can get one of those "car deals" to buy it.  Like 0% interest for 10 years would make the payments about $1740.00 per month.  While that sounds like a lot many make that kind of a payment on a house or a fancy car.  I have yet to find a house or car I could pick and sound that good.


....And I've yet to find a mando I could live in or drive. But that one looks like it oozes mojo.

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## Hallmark498

Mojo yes sir!  It had the feel, sound and smell.

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## JFDilmando

From some of these pics, it looks like this might have an overspray of lacquer..... yes... no .... ?

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## mandophil(e)

It sure looks right to me.

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## Darryl Wolfe

> From some of these pics, it looks like this might have an overspray of lacquer..... yes... no .... ?


No...that's a slightly unique look that July 9 mandolins have, including mine.  It is an overcoat of some sort, but appears more like a sprayed or french polished shellac that is harder than the varnish.  I think (just an opinion) they may have been experimenting with a few techniques to speed the time from finish to ship.  The May and June mandolins preceeding the July 9 all have dead soft type of finish that wears easily and has that gummy sticky look.

Just to add to the speculation, I believe somebody other that Gibson (contract shop, or a person brought in) did the finish on the earlier light colored ones...and that they went throught the lengthy violin style varnishing

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## JFDilmando

Darryl;
When you say the earlier ones, how much earlier are you talking... all the way back to '22 ?  There seems to be quite a change in color happening in '23...  and then of course the continuation through to the dark '24's....
Given the passage of years, and your observations, how do you think the various finish experiments, or treatments have held up compared to one another...?  We all know how the later Ferns have held up.... with significant shrinkage cracks, and checking... not so great....

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## Darryl Wolfe

Darryl;
When you say the earlier ones, how much earlier are you talking... all the way back to '22 ? 

No.  I am basically referring to the 72205-72210ish ones. Mostly in Feb 23.  There is something very different going on with these

Also, most, but not all of the '22's look fairly typical and not like the aforementioned.  There are some light colored individual one, but most look normal

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## Brian Aldridge

Darryl, your knowledge of detail never ceases to amaze me. I am reminded of the time you told me the year of my D18 from a picture you saw of me holding it. I am very familiar with 72210, and play it with some regularity. Only after you mentioned it, but yes the finish is different than the usual Loar. I once played 72211. It is very different than 72210 in terms of color, finish, wood selection and sound. I bet they have different FONs, even though consecutive serial numbers. It also is a very light color, like a couple of 1922s that reside in California.

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## f5loar

Consecutive numbers don't mean they were finished by the same master craftsman.  Could just be two different guys putting it on.
That Feb. '23 batch is really light but some light finishes show up in other dates too. The lightest Loar I ever saw was 75848 and it's a March 31, 1924.

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## Brian Aldridge

> No...that's a slightly unique look that July 9 mandolins have, including mine.  It is an overcoat of some sort, but appears more like a sprayed or french polished shellac that is harder than the varnish.  I think (just an opinion) they may have been experimenting with a few techniques to speed the time from finish to ship.  The May and June mandolins preceeding the July 9 all have dead soft type of finish that wears easily and has that gummy sticky look.
> 
> Just to add to the speculation, I believe somebody other that Gibson (contract shop, or a person brought in) did the finish on the earlier light colored ones...and that they went throught the lengthy violin style varnishing


Didn't I read once wher David McLaughlin was telling about removing a gummy top coat from the finish on his Loar?

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## HoGo

> Didn't I read once wher David McLaughlin was telling about removing a gummy top coat from the finish on his Loar?


That was likely just old wax/polish that previous owner applied too thickly and it weathered. The finish which was under that mess looks authentic.

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## Darryl Wolfe

> Didn't I read once wher David McLaughlin was telling about removing a gummy top coat from the finish on his Loar?


Yes...David's was one of the gummy sticky looking ones..and it still has a slightly matte and textured look to it

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## JFDilmando

In another thread, Ken W. made the provocative (his words) statement that he believed that this mandolin went back to the factory for the Fern inlay in '26.  That would of course place this in a nonfern category.... I looked through the archives as closely as the photos would allow, and could only find one possible piece of evidence for this... a small fern tip difference, which Darryl could explain by the black paint on the peghead obscuring the MOP.  From my examination then, I cannot support Kens contention... at all.  I believe that this "question" that Ken raises is an important one, if anyone else in the world takes it seriously.  This is an historical instrument.  Has anyone else critically looked at this inlay with regards to Ken's assertions ?  Or for the most part, has this community dismissed Ken's suggestions as baseless...
It would be great if Ken would offer his evidence... for such an important provocation.

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## danb

It seems to me that some other possible explanations are a bit more probable, but then none of us were there so it's hard to really be sure.

Stamp numbers (under the loar signature label!) would sure help untangle the mysteries a bit more. Joe's book makes a pretty good case that the stamp number is indicitive of the BUILD date, and the serial is indicitive of the shipping date.. then again, the dates that are signed onto the Loars could very well not match *either* of those..

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## Darryl Wolfe

George gave me a call last night to let me/us know the price has been lowered.  $190,000

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## Justus True Waldron

Great, now I only need to come up with the other $186k... or if I trade in my mando $181k... actually I just put an offer on an old house out here for less than half of what that mando costs! Still I think it would be worth it...

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## Jonathan James

Hey, maybe we can talk Steve Martin into buying it and then letting each of us borrow it!

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## JFDilmando

I seem to remember F5 saying something like.... the first $175 k will walk home with this instrument.... getting close to his prognostication... just get to the seller, who was indeed the guy that had the "advert" on ebay, they confirmed that to me...dodge the commission, and make the sale at F5's asking price... this really opens the eyes to the economy and the state of vintage instruments... this is a significant Loar, in really nice shape, with perhaps one of the best voices around, according to those in the know.... and there is sits.

JohnD

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## Ben Milne

Interesting to note that the F5 in the 1922 N catalogue was a fern...
(I gather this one is interesting as it is the earliest known fern, and chronologically out of place compared to other ferns?)

Hmm, the current eBay listing says 1922 (22-23 in the description, it seems Fox guitars lists catalog N as 1923. Fox also states that F5s can fetch up o half a million dollars in the vintage market. 
It seems the original intent was fern inlay for the F5, perhaps someone's personal choice or an abundance of flowerpots influenced this.

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## pjlama

I was talking to Chris Stanley about Loars. I was stressed out owning a Gilchrist, and he was telling me that owning a Loar is very stressful. I'd love one if I could afford but I think I'd be flipping out all the time. It would be like a cartoon when they get hungry and see the other character as a giant drum stick. The Loar would look like cars, private school, vacations, second home, etc.. Bless those who own them, you're much stronger than I am.

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## Tim W

I played that one upstairs at Gruhn's and thought it sounded fine, I don't think it was the best I ever played though and that is just comparing Loars to Loars, not compared to the Ellis on the wall that blew every other mandolin in the place away. 

That was one of the better sounding Ellis' I've played incidentally but heck it's my ears and they are different than your ears so it's all subjective anyway. There wasn't a bad instrument in the place, unfortunately they were closing or I'd still be there "trying them out".

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## RCarrier73988

> Hopefully this Fern will end up in the hands of a pro, so we can see it out and about and getting played, as opposed to a collector...


Speaking of Collectors, I visited Benny Cain in Falls Church, Virginia, in September 1972.  He had three Loars,  I tried to get him to sell me one, and he said as long as he played, he would need them all.  I told him that even if he could play with his feet, he could only use two of them.  He had one that came from out in Kansas, that was gem mint.  That was the finest mandolin that I ever had in my hands.  Have no idea where it is today.

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## pjlama

> Speaking of Collectors, I visited Benny Cain in Falls Church, Virginia, in September 1972.  He had three Loars,  I tried to get him to sell me one, and he said as long as he played, he would need them all.  I told him that even if he could play with his feet, he could only use two of them.  He had one that came from out in Kansas, that was gem mint.  That was the finest mandolin that I ever had in my hands.  Have no idea where it is today.


What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
1920's - $?
1930's - $?
1940's - $?
1950's - $?
1960's - $?
1970's - $?
1980's - $?
1990's - $?
2000's - $?
2010's - $?

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## f5loar

[QUOTE=pjlama;1072189]What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
1920's - $250
1930's - $250
1940's - $150
1950's - $500
1960's - $1000
1970's - $2000
1980's - $8000
1990's - $25000
2000's - $150000
2010's - $200000
That's my guess from memory.  Darryl Wolfe may have more exact figures

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## D C Blood

I was offered a choice of two, one w/Virzi one w/o, back in '69, for $1200.  At the time I had a mando that sounded better than either of them (Duffey's '34? F-7) so I respectfully declined, even though I did have the money at the time.  I don't remember the particulars, such as year, date, 'pot or fern...What the heck, if I had bought one of 'em I probably would have sold it when the price went up to $5000....

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## pjlama

Well, I better get working on my time machine. There are not many investments with that type of return, most notably from the 90's to the 2000's. Thanks for the info, very interesting.

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## William Smith

> I was offered a choice of two, one w/Virzi one w/o, back in '69, for $1200.  At the time I had a mando that sounded better than either of them (Duffey's '34? F-7) so I respectfully declined, even though I did have the money at the time.  I don't remember the particulars, such as year, date, 'pot or fern...What the heck, if I had bought one of 'em I probably would have sold it when the price went up to $5000....


Yep your still kickin your own butt for swapin that to uncle Dick,,It is one heck of a mandolin for being a mutt! :Grin:

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## Jim Hilburn

When I first became "aware" in about 72-73 I heard $4000. For some reason I remember seeing an ad for a Pontiac Lemans at about that time for $3800 so a Loar was still totally out of reach, especially for me.

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## AlanN

1990's - $25000

I recall 40K as the standard going price back then for a not-messed-with Loar F-5.

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## f5loar

You have to give an average for that decade.  The range of prices within that decade could be pretty wide.   I gave averages for that particular decade.   What you remember for a particular year is probably correct justp notbthevaverage for that decade.   Maybe a 5year breakdown would be better.   I'll let Darryl do that!

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## pjlama

> You have to give an average for that decade.  The range of prices within that decade could be pretty wide.   I gave averages for that particular decade.   What you remember for a particular year is probably correct justp notbthevaverage for that decade.   Maybe a 5year breakdown would be better.   I'll let Darryl do that!


I appreciate what you've done already. You give and inch and they take a mile  :Laughing:

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## sgarrity

I started paying attention to these things in the mid-late '90s.  I remember $50k-ish then.  During the boom years I understand that there were a few that sold for $200k.  But now.......Elderly has been sitting on 4, count 'em 4, Loar F5s for how long now?  I'm sure there have been many Loars sold privately in the past few years.  But the open market is SOFT on all instruments.  It would be interesting to know what the actual selling price is on Loars that are moving.  I'd speculate no more that $150k.

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## evanreilly

Just in case anyone is interested in a concrete, rather than theoretical.....

http://http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/57996

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## Glassweb

> I started paying attention to these things in the mid-late '90s.  I remember $50k-ish then.  During the boom years I understand that there were a few that sold for $200k.  But now.......Elderly has been sitting on 4, count 'em 4, Loar F5s for how long now?  I'm sure there have been many Loars sold privately in the past few years.  But the open market is SOFT on all instruments.  It would be interesting to know what the actual selling price is on Loars that are moving.  I'd speculate no more that $150k.


Way over $150K actually... and at least 3 or 4 that I'm aware of...

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## Ken Waltham

Me too.

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## sgarrity

Well you guys are certainly more in tune to the Loar market than I am.  I'm assuming those were private sales?  Still makes me wonder why the ones on the open market don't seem to be moving.

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## f5loar

I think we discussed this many months ago about why so many for sale and none being sold.  Well they are being sold you just don't hear about it.  Many are private sells.  Others sell for much less than the asking price.   The big reason the dealers are not selling is all the buyers that can afford one already have one and all the buyers that want one can't afford one.   Many of these for sale are on consignment and the cosignors don't need to sell at a loss just yet.  Many big spenders are just waiting until Nov. to see which way things may go with the economy.  There could be a big sell off in the stock market come mid Nov.  and then investors will put their cash into hard assets like Loars and Beanie Babies.

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## brunello97

> ... Many big spenders are just waiting until Nov. to see which way things may go with the economy.  There could be a big sell off in the stock market come mid Nov.  and then investors will put their cash into hard assets like Loars and Beanie Babies.


A wise person would trust your Gibson evaluation skills far more than your economic ones.  Stock market is up 43% (Dow) since Nov 4, 2008.  Only a very naive (or jaded) person would suggest that the sky is preparing to fall.  You can't clean up a big big structural economic mess in a few years or with a few slogans or a few tax breaks. To suggest otherwise is to misunderstand the issues at a very very fundamental level.  Better to keep an eye on the banks and keep playing your mandolins rather than who's president if you want to know which way the wind blows.

Mick

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## RCarrier73988

> What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
> Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
> 1920's - $?
> 1930's - $?
> 1940's - $?
> 1950's - $?
> 1960's - $?
> 1970's - $?
> 1980's - $?
> ...


At the time I spoke with Benny Cain, the going price was $2,500.00.  I can remember
a few years earlier seeing one listed in BU for $ 1,600.00.  I figure that around 1970-
1972, that a dollar would be worth ten times what it is today.  A small coca-cola could be bought for 6-10 cents.  Today, they're probably around a dollar.  At that ratio, a twenty five hundred mandolin, would sell for 25,000 to 30,000.  Yet a Loar
will bring that several times over.  It all seems to go by to that age old law of "supply vs. demand."

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## Glassweb

> Well you guys are certainly more in tune to the Loar market than I am.  I'm assuming those were private sales?  Still makes me wonder why the ones on the open market don't seem to be moving.


Lots of reasons I guess. Firstly, a number of these Loars were priced way too high for the market. And a number of them are still priced too high! The pricing of the Loars on Elderly's list (for example) just does not make a lot of sense to me (and other dealers/collectors I have spoken with).

Also, people who are looking for a Loar F5 are usually looking for something "special"... the cleaner and "less circulated" the better so far as I can tell. Yes, there have been (and continue to be) some private sales, but Mandolin Central, Mandolin Bros and Gruhn are not private dealers and they seem to keep them moving. Lloyd Loar F5's are not bringing the $200K+ that some of them brought before the banks were "saved", but they are indeed selling.

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## Links

> Lots of reasons I guess. Firstly, a number of these Loars were priced way too high for the market. And a number of them are still priced too high! The pricing of the Loars on Elderly's list (for example) just does not make a lot of sense to me (and other dealers/collectors I have spoken with).
> 
> Also, people who are looking for a Loar F5 are usually looking for something "special"... the cleaner and "less circulated" the better so far as I can tell. Yes, there have been (and continue to be) some private sales, but Mandolin Central, Mandolin Bros and Gruhn are not private dealers and they seem to keep them moving. Lloyd Loar F5's are not bringing the $200K+ that some of them brought before the banks were "saved", but they are indeed selling.


Wow  -  a Loar owner who is realistic about pricing  -  but then again Glassweb always seems to have a realistic view of these things even though he is an owner.  Hopefully I am that way regarding some of my nicer collectible instruments  -  although difficult.  I don't need to tell anyone here how supply and demand works, but if there are a lot of these instruments on the market and they are sitting there, then there are a lot of folks that think they are overpriced.  I guess it is natural for owners to look at pricing differently than perspective buyers!

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## JFDilmando

rather interesting to note that this mandolin has "reversed labels" with signature on base side with serial number on treble....
Is this seen on many other July 9's ???

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## Mandolin Mick

Tom,

Thanx for posting the approximate values of Loar Gibsons over the decades! Wow!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Darryl Wolfe

Reversed labels...Yes...quite a few July 9's.  Also that way on the June 1, 22

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## Darryl Wolfe

[QUOTE=f5loar;1072235]


> What was the going price for a Loar in 72'? I was one but am just curious. I thought there was a thread about Loar values over years somewhere but am too lazy too find it. If there isn't I'd love to see something like this;
> Median Loar values by decade from 1920's to 2010's
> 1920's - $250
> 1930's - $250
> 1940's - $150
> 1950's - $500
> 1960's - $1000
> 1970's - $2000
> 1980's - $8000
> ...


Thats close for say the exact year next to the number listed, but the decades had a large range.  For example 1500-2000 is correct in 1970, but 6000-7500 was correct for 1976 to 1979.   I sold 2 for 13,000 each in 1989.  The price was into the 40K range before the 1990's were over

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## JeffD

I purchased my 1923 A2 snakehead for a thousand bucks in 1985. I have a memory of an F5 of the same year, that I looked at but turned down. 

Now memory is really a funny thing. I seem to remember that it was sheridan brown, which now seems very unlikely. It was a very dark instrument. I also seem to remember that it as selling for something under $2000, but I couldn't swing the difference. That price seems low considering what we see in this thread.

And to show you how naive I was, the scroll and points seemed kind of garish to me at the time. I remember looking at pictures in Mandolin World News, which is the first place I ever really looked at an F style, and thinking "who would want to play something as squirrely looking as that".

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## pfox14

The Loar F-5 that very recently sold at Skinner's auctions went for only $100K, so the prices of these rare mandos has certainly dropped relative to the prices they were going for prior to 2008 when they were fetching $250K or more.

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## JFDilmando

lets make that $126k with tax and fees... but  who is counting...
for sure Loars have been selling for in the 100's rather than the 200's, but as others have noted, they are still selling... we know that Theile dropped $200k on his first Feb 18 and $180k on his second, just weeks ago... I personally know of three that have sold recently for $140 - $190 range... 

Apple was selling for $720/sh a bit a go, and today is $600/share.... things go up, things go down... and then up... and then down...
I love the idea of owning something like this and playing it !!!  I can't get much of a rush playing an Apple share...

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hank

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## kudzugypsy

> lets make that $126k with tax and fees... but  who is counting...
> for sure Loars have been selling for in the 100's rather than the 200's, but as others have noted, they are still selling... we know that Theile dropped $200k on his first Feb 18 and $180k on his second, just weeks ago... I personally know of three that have sold recently for $140 - $190 range... 
> 
> Apple was selling for $720/sh a bit a go, and today is $600/share.... things go up, things go down... and then up... and then down...
> I love the idea of owning something like this and playing it !!!  I can't get much of a rush playing an Apple share...


dont forget though, Theile gets to write that off on taxes, i'm sure he is set up to take advantage of that just like someone in the lawncare business pays $20k for a lawnmower and depreciates it off / or as a bus expense against earnings. i'm just pointing out its different to compare a hobby picker with what a pro buys for his career.

i was somehow "at the right place and time" to pick up AAPL back in the '90's when Jobs came back - sunk my entire $1800 savings in it to the absolute hysteria of my dads stockbroker who said i was crazy and throwing my money away. i could by quite a few Loars now! - thats just how it goes, you get in when no one wants in and you get out when everyone wants in - i see this with ANY speculation - be it stocks, RE or Loar mandolins. back when they were going up 15%+ a year, it was a no-brainer, they would last online as quickly as it took your home equity credit line to wire the funds. i personally think that we will settle in the low $100K range for a long time, as this last auction points to.

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## Glassweb

Sorry to disagree, but all this auction price points to is this particular auction day... nothing more. Several Loar F5s have changed hands this past year for over $180K so it's those prices that truly reflect the current market. I will say that buyers are being very particular as to which Loars they'll drop the big money on, (as they should be) but in general the cleaner, better-sounding examples will always seem to bring the highest prices.

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## JFDilmando

Does anyone know the history of this instrument before it was "incovered" by the "treasure" outfit in NC?  I heard that it was a one owner deal. I know that it was originally wa sold out of a store in Maryland I believe. 

Love to know what info on this instrument might be floating around in our Cafe community.

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## Links

> dont forget though, Theile gets to write that off on taxes, i'm sure he is set up to take advantage of that just like someone in the lawncare business pays $20k for a lawnmower and depreciates it off / or as a bus expense against earnings. i'm just pointing out its different to compare a hobby picker with what a pro buys for his career.
> 
> i was somehow "at the right place and time" to pick up AAPL back in the '90's when Jobs came back - sunk my entire $1800 savings in it to the absolute hysteria of my dads stockbroker who said i was crazy and throwing my money away. i could by quite a few Loars now! - thats just how it goes, you get in when no one wants in and you get out when everyone wants in - i see this with ANY speculation - be it stocks, RE or Loar mandolins. back when they were going up 15%+ a year, it was a no-brainer, they would last online as quickly as it took your home equity credit line to wire the funds. i personally think that we will settle in the low $100K range for a long time, as this last auction points to.


Thta's all true Kudzu    -  but Thile still had to shell out the cash for the Loar and after he depreciates it over ten years (or how many you can depreciate it over) and then sells it for 400K, he will have quite a tax bill come due. As you may know, any great tax advantage that seems good at the time eventually comes back to bite you on the hiney!

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## Darryl Wolfe

The actual mando in question, the 23 Fern Loar has been returned to the consignee and sold.

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## JFDilmando

I have been snooping about and have found some bit of background on this particular mandolin:
The consignee that Darryl mentions, was "We Buy Treasure" out of North Carolina.  Back in 2011 they got a call in response to one of their advertisements in Delaware.  Apparently there was an individual that claimed to have a mandolin that looked just like their picture in the ad.

After contacting by phone, and traveling to see the instrument, pictures were sent off to George Gruhn who confirmed the unique nature of the '23 June 9 Loar.  After negotiations that lasted a couple of weeks a deal was made.

The mandolin was purchased by the fellow's Mom, early in the 50's, so that he might learn to play.  She was apparently into antiques, and was aware that this was a "good" mandolin at the time.  The gentleman did not really get into playing at all, and the Loar found a place behind the sofa, for the next sixty years.

It probably never left Delaware, as the dealer's sticker inside the case reads from a store in Wilmington, Delaware.

It is interesting that according to Gruhn, and Darryl, Sam Bush, and Adam Steffey remarked about the remarkable sound from this Load as it has been "sleeping" for 60 years.

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## JFDilmando

Attachment 94643I'll put up this photo of this particular mandolin, 73755, as well as placing it the Loar pics for enjoyment.
The framed picture is a photo of the Gruhn article published in "Vintage Guitar".... F5 thanks for turning me onto the article

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving !

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## Andrew B. Carlson

> Attachment 94643I'll put up this photo of this particular mandolin, 73755, as well as placing it the Loar pics for enjoyment.
> The framed picture is a photo of the Gruhn article published in "Vintage Guitar".... F5 thanks for turning me onto the article
> 
> Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving !


Am I right in my assumption that your post in the Loar pic of the day thread means that this beautiful Fern is now in your possession? If so, a video is in order I do believe.

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## JFDilmando

It is in my household and a video would be a great idea.... I will try and get on that and will post in the Holidays !!  just add to the festivities, and joyous times....

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## JFDilmando

This is a snap of the mitre in the scroll of this 9 July, 23 Fern.... I will post in Loar pics with comparison with a Feb 18

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## Mike Romkey

Yikes! Low blow. You talking about Chris?

Later: Dang. This didn't go where it was supposed to go in the above. Never mind.

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## Mike Romkey

> don't forget those 1% folks.  They spend $225K on home security.


Note my comment above, incompetently posted as it was. 

With all due respect to the more learned and distinguished person who posted this, I don't think class warfare is at all the point. Owning an "expensive" mandolin is beyond comprehension for the typical person (or his wife). The owner of a Master Model or Duff, or a Gilchrist, would be shipped off to re-education camp, along with the Loar owners, after the revolution. 

But as I hope you agree, it's about mandolins, not money. 

I love all mandolins, and all mandolin owners, rich or poor.

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## JFDilmando

where did this come from and to what does it refer ??   class warfare ??  re-educatioin camps ??  after the revolution ??  are we talking about this thread, or is this a total misdirected post from some other thread in some other dimension ??

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## Mike Romkey

My apologies, JFDilmando. I read this thread today and reacted to how it veered away from the instrument and onto so-called 1 percenters (of which I am not one), who "spend more on home security" than it would cost to buy an upper-end Loar, Chris Thile's taxes, etc. If you'd like to continue this discussion, please PM me.

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## JFDilmando

Ok I see.  Yeah it was quite a digression for sure and that tends to happen in threads. Yields some interesting commentary from time to time.   Other times.  Hmmmm. Not so much.

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## Hallmark498

Lets get this back on track!

How about some more pictures of the Fern and a video with smell "ah" vision... :Wink:

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## JFDilmando

just another pic of the tailpiece cover of this mandolin...
Enjoy...

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