# Technique, Theory, Playing Tips and Tricks > Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks >  Pros/Teachers - What is the most important tip you can give?

## Eegajo

EDIT: Don't necessarily have to be a "pro". I realize now that would really limit this post, especially considering modesty. All are welcome to contribute that have been playing for a long time.  :Smile: 


Hey guys, I just posted a more specific question about a problem with my own playing, but it got me thinking. It would be great if we could get some of the pros/teachers on this board to post either the most valuable technique you might practice daily, a technique/drill you once used and was very important to your current ability level, or just a general tip that maybe you wish you had done more of as you were learning that could greatly accelerate the playing of others not at that high of a level. I got some great replies from my other thread http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-Need-remedies and that's what gave me the idea. I might be duplicating a thread here (don't think so), but even so, it might be worth revisiting if it is a dupe.

Thanks to anyone who contributes. When you're a beginner or intermediate player, it's really helpful to hear stuff like this and learn from people better. Also, even if it's not directly answering my questions, and you feel it's important knowledge, please, by all means, share. I want to get a wealth of information here. Thanks everybody!

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## dwc

I am not sure I could be considered "pro" but these were two tips from pros that really elevated my playing:

1) "Tunes man, tunes.  You every met a guy who knew a hundred tunes but couldn't play?"  If you learn an etude, you may have improved your playing, but all you know is that etude.  If you can find a tune that uses something you are trying to learn, then once you master it, you have the skill, plus another tune in your repertoire.  For instance, when I was working scales, I learned Blackberry Blossom, because the A section is really just running scales.  Once I had it down, I knew my scales and a tune in lots of keys, even if I only ever play it in G.

2) Use a metronome, but use it intelligently.  Most mandolinists like to play fast, and why not?  But you can't just play arbitrarily faster.  If the tune is in 8th notes, you just can't arbitrarily speed it up.  If you want to go faster, you have to play exactly twice as fast and play a stream of 16th notes.  So put on your metronome app, play quarter notes, then 8th notes, then 16ths, etc.  That way when you are chopping along at quarter note pulse and it is your time for a break, you can easily transition to 8ths or (maybe) 16ths, although, truth be told, there aren't many bluegrass/old time tunes with streams of 16ths.

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Consecon, 

Eegajo, 

jazzjune18, 

Jess L., 

LadysSolo, 

noah finn

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## Eegajo

Cool point about finding a tune with "double value" dwc. Thanks

I'm still kind of curious how musicians use the metronome. What you're saying makes sense dwc and is similar to what I do. I've always heard start slow and work up, but with variations on what that means.
Sometimes I hear play VERY slowly ... I'm talking one note per second, so you're fingers know the correct way to play. I'm curious to know more about how people use their metronomes. When I hear play slow and speed up, I usually play a song at a very comfortable pace, then work up to the point where it gets slightly difficult. I back down a bit from there. Practice that tempo until I feel completely comfortable then slowly work my way up.
Does anyone else use the SLOOOOW as possible technique or another method they want to share. If so, at what speed, and at what point do you try to speed it up? At some point we want to grip it and rip it, am I right? When do we know the super slow is done and done and we can play it with some gusto.

Don't want to make this a thread only about metronome use though, so please share anything unrelated to metronomes as well!

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## Tailgate

Great question... just posting to follow along.

Although, when learning a new tune i will typically listen to many different versions online and try to learn the basic version (using a simple tab if one is available) then i will try to learn my favorite variatons by ear.  Once I have a good handle on it, I will then begin to practice with a metronome at a speed that is just slow enough so I dont make any mistakes.  Increase speed gradually and try to jam with others if you can.  There's no substitute for jamming with other folks, especially if they are better than you.

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## Pete Martin

Most valuable IMHO:  learn good ergonomics.   Then you wont spend the rest of your life trying to "fix" your mechanics.

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Christine Robins, 

Consecon, 

Dave Martin, 

DavidKOS, 

jasona, 

Jess L., 

John MacPhee, 

Kevin Stueve, 

Mark Gunter, 

Tailgate, 

tangleweeds

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## LadysSolo

Love the idea of learning a tune/piece that has within it something (technique) you are trying to learn!

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## John Flynn

> Love the idea of learning a tune/piece that has within it something (technique) you are trying to learn!


This^^^^ I have generally had a hard time learning a technique that some pro or teacher wanted me to learn. But I will work 'til my fingers are sore to make a certain sound in an arrangement of a tune that I find really attractive. That's how I learned tremolo, cross picking, double-stop melody/harmony, chops, etc.

The best tip: Figure out your own tips to work on.

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## Kevin Stueve

> Most valuable IMHO:  learn good ergonomics.   Then you wont spend the rest of your life trying to "fix" your mechanics.


Pete's video were invaluable when I started.  Thanks

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## UsuallyPickin

This is what I post when new to music players ask new to music questions. R/ 

1. Learn both open and closed position chords and scales and arpeggios.
2. Take lessons from a mandolin player / teacher not someone that just teaches mandolin. Saves time and trouble getting rid of bad habits.
3. Get a 1.2mm or thicker pick. 
4. Keep a loose wrist and fingers. If you don't drop the pick occasionally you are gripping it too tight. Watch a video of Tim O'Brien. 
5. Hold your pick at 90' to the side of your thumb.
6. Do a lot of active ,with mandolin in hand, and passive, while doing other things , listening to mandolin players. 
7. Learn fiddle tunes. Then learn to play them in odd keys. Not to befuddle your picking buds but to really learn the fingerboard.
8. Find a jam to play with folks. It's the best way to dive in to playing.
9. Start practicing tremolo and crosspicking early on. Right hand control is crucial to tone production as well as keeping your play interesting.
10. If you don't already know basic music theory then learn it. It will help you evolve as a mandolinist and as a musician. Know what keys and chords work together arpeggios and scale construction etc.

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DavidKOS, 

Eldon Dennis, 

Pick&Grin, 

tangleweeds

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## Mark Miller

I'm still a beginner on mandolin but I want to pass along a thought about speed and metronome use from my guitar learning days that has helped me here too. Steve Kaufman makes the point that picking up speed involves two almost opposite principles:  1) Play slow, don't fake it, don't practice mistakes; 2) You won't get there just by incremental steps; you have to play fast to learn to play fast. In my experience both are true, but how do you jump to playing fast without practicing mistakes?  Dan Miller and company from flatpick.com helped me figure out how to reconcile those two ideas. First, play very slow--60 bpm-- every day, including whatever tune or break you are working on. They say do the 60 bpm thing for ten minutes a day. It's excruciating at first, but it sets things in muscle memory and it lets you attend to both left and right hands at the same time in ways you can't at faster speeds.  Second, work on incremental steps up in speed from there. Some days for me that means 20 bpm increments. Some days it means working 60, then 120, then 150, 180, 200, 208...experiment with what works for you, but the point is that getting really comfortable at a variety of speeds helps a lot. Third, play along with the metronome, or recordings, or one of the many play-along resources (like Brad Davis' flatpick jam DVDs) at fast speeds.  At first this might mean chording along, but even this really helps you get used to faster tempos. But even for leads, if you've gotten a tune up to say 180 bpm, don't just try to settle in at 190, also crank it up to 240 or something like that. The key here is to stay relaxed and don't worry about screwing up. If it makes you tense all up, stop and just chord along. Also simplify at those speeds. Take out some notes. The point is that if you get comfortable moving your hand at 240, even if it's just playing one note the whole time, you can then gradually add in more of the tune. That's why early Bill Monroe has been helpful for me. Much simpler arrangements than later Monroe or fiddle tunes or contemporary bluegrass players. Once you can settle into a groove fast, the fancier playing will come. But if you never force yourself to catch up to that groove, you'll never get there.

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gtani7

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## David L

> I am not sure I could be considered "pro" but these were two tips from pros that really elevated my playing:
> 
> 
> 2) Use a metronome, but use it intelligently.  Most mandolinists like to play fast, and why not?  But you can't just play arbitrarily faster.  If the tune is in 8th notes, you just can't arbitrarily speed it up.  If you want to go faster, you have to play exactly twice as fast and play a stream of 16th notes.  So put on your metronome app, play quarter notes, then 8th notes, then 16ths, etc.  That way when you are chopping along at quarter note pulse and it is your time for a break, you can easily transition to 8ths or (maybe) 16ths, although, truth be told, there aren't many bluegrass/old time tunes with streams of 16ths.


You don't have to play twice as fast to go faster! This makes no sense. It isn't "arbitrary" to speed the metronome up just a little at a time. 8th notes and 16th notes can be played at any speed, they just have to be consistent.

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## Chip Stewart

> 2) Use a metronome, but use it intelligently.


My primary instrument is bass, so I work with a metronome every time I practice.  What's important is using a metronome to teach yourself how to keep time.  I play a walking 12 bar blues bass line with the metronome set at 160 bpm with each note corresponding to the metronome.  THEN I play the same bass line with the metronome set at 40 bpm with only every fourth note corresponding with the metronome.  This is the same speed, but not nearly as easy to land with the metronome.  If you can master this, then you have a pretty good sense of timing.

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gtani7, 

JLewis

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## dwc

> You don't have to play twice as fast to go faster! This makes no sense. It isn't "arbitrary" to speed the metronome up just a little at a time. 8th notes and 16th notes can be played at any speed, they just have to be consistent.


You misunderstand the point.  Sure, when you are practicing by yourself, you can set the metronome wherever you please and ratchet it up as you like; however, when you play with others, you are playing (hopefully) at a consistent tempo.  When playing with others, you have to maintain that tempo.  You cannot simply ratchet up the pace, you have to stay in time, and to play faster in time, you cannot play arbitrarily faster.  If you want to go faster "in time" then quarters must become 8ths, 8ths must become 16ths, etc.  

It has been my experience that subdividing the beat like this and staying in time is difficult to do.  Therefore, when I practice with a metronome, I set a quarter note pace, say 150 bpm and play quarters.  Then I double that and play 8ths with the metronome still counting quarters.  Then I (try to) double that and play 16ths.  At speed, that is usually quite fast.  I am practicing to stay in time with others.

The point of the tip was not really to learn to play faster so much as it is to learn to subdivide the beat and stay in time.

Maybe an example will help:

You and I are playing Blackberry Blossom at 200 bpm.  I am playing guitar, and I have the quarter note rhythm, boom-chuck; boom-chuck.  You are going to play the melody.  You cannot just play that melody arbitrarily faster than my quarter note time.  Those melody notes are 8ths, so they have to perfectly subdivide the beat in half, or to put it another way, go by twice as fast relative to my accompaniment.  What the melody notes cannot be is just somewhat faster.  the subdivision must be exact, and lots of people I have played with miss that point.

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## Tom Wright

Following the metronome suggestion from Chip, I remember Mike Arnopol, a fine jazz bassist in Chicago, telling me he regularly practiced being on time, but also a hair on the backside, keeping consistently just that far back, and also just a hint on the front side. He felt it increased his choice of time, giving him the capability of pushing with fine control or pulling the band back for time control, and also for just that hint of either energy or repose.

But this sort of exercise is only useful late in the learning process, when you can tell the difference and have enough chops to deliver it. 

I find the main tip is to see players perform, in person, (not on youtube), at close range. This teaches you what is possible, and what it sounds like in a real context. Stephane Grappelli said he learned how to play by watching the gypsy fiddlers in restaurants and on the street. I learned tremendously by seeing players like Don Stiernberg at close range, and two Mandolin Symposiums taught me a huge amount, again by hearing the luminaries in the same room, not on a CD or video. 

It is about getting the sound in your ears, so you will always be trying to make that sound as a goal. All technique leads to the performance, and you will see different techniques that are good for different sounds. Then you can find your sound.

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## Pete Martin

> Pete's video were invaluable when I started.  Thanks


My ergonomic videos are here

http://www.petimarpress.com/mandolin...%20videos.html

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Charles Andre, 

JDaley3, 

wooq

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## Pete Martin

> I'm still a beginner on mandolin but I want to pass along a thought about speed and metronome use from my guitar learning days that has helped me here too. Steve Kaufman makes the point that picking up speed involves two almost opposite principles:  1) Play slow, don't fake it, don't practice mistakes; 2) You won't get there just by incremental steps; you have to play fast to learn to play fast. In my experience both are true, but how do you jump to playing fast without practicing mistakes?


For every time you play fast once, play once VERY SLOW and in total control.  If you don't, you just train your hands how to play unsynchronized with each other.

Actually, you really need to play at all speeds in between as well (use the metronome for this).  For folks with limited practice time however, fast and very slow works as well as anything I've seen.

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bohemianbiker, 

DavidKOS, 

Mark Wilson

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## yankees1

> For every time you play fast once, play once VERY SLOW and in total control.  If you don't, you just train your hands how to play unsynchronized with each other.
> 
> Actually, you really need to play at all speeds in between as well (use the metronome for this).  For folks with limited practice time however, fast and very slow works as well as anything I've seen.


Great advice teacher !  :Smile:

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## Eegajo

Thank guys! Great responses.... I was hoping to get away from the metronome a little bit, but oh well. :Smile:  I guess the metronome is just that important. To try to derail this metronome thread though, does anyone have any non metronome related drills they do, or just general tips, etc? Thanks to those that followed up my metronome question, and great replies, but I think we've got a few varying ideologies on the metronome now, and maybe we can lure a few more wise men in if we start talking non-metronome again). Thanks again everybody!

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## DavidKOS

> This is what I post when new to music players ask new to music questions. R/ 
> 
> 3. Get a _1.2mm or thicker_ pick. 
> 
> 9. Start practicing tremolo and _crosspicking_ early on. Right hand control is crucial to tone production as well as keeping your play interesting.
> .


Basically a fine list of things to do learning mandolin.

Assuming you want to play Bluegrass, then the thick pick and crosspicking are also good advice. I'm not sure of the OP's preferred style of playing mandolin, so this is a safe bet.
Some of the advice may be different if learning Italian or classical mandolin, such as spending time sight-reading and working from the traditional method books.

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## jshane

I am not a pro.       The one thing I have adopted (can't say learned cause I am very much still learning) is to play what I hear in my head. This transforms everything, from learning new tunes to improvising.

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## yankees1

Not an instructor or pro but what I learned from Pete Martin was to play with correct ergonomics only as fast as you can correctly. Speed will come ! Learn to play the piece correctly the first time and you won't have to unlearn to re-learn !

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## farmerjones

There's no sense in reinventing the wheel. Pete's site is great. Secondly, it takes about ten years of playing to sound like you've been playing for a decade.

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## Kevin Stueve

> There's no sense in reinventing the wheel. Pete's site is great. Secondly, it takes about ten years of playing to sound like you've been playing for a decade.


Even if I spent 7 hours on the Bach Cello Suite I prelude yesterday?
Don't tell my wife,  I think there are days she contemplates burning my mando. 

I'm not a pro I've only been playing 9 months,  so I am only on this thread to provide comedic relief.   (and hopefully to pick up a non metronome tip).

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## yankees1

> There's no sense in reinventing the wheel. Pete's site is great. Secondly, it takes about ten years of playing to sound like you've been playing for a decade.


 I second the Pete Martin suggestion !!

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## Eegajo

Hey thanks everyone for contributing. To answer a question, my desired playing style is really everything. I love bluegrass,  but I'm more interested in playing jazz than bluegrass at the moment. On the other hand, I also love classical pieces.  To sum up...  I just love music and I love the mandolin! I just really want to get better and get some advice from a great community with a wealth of information and collective years and years of experience!  :Smile:  

As for the comment don't reinvent the wheel. I totally get what you're saying,  but I'm just looking for that one thing that a teacher or pro might do every day (or did do every day) that was really important to then.  Their warm up or the drill they play every day.  The most crucial exercise or technique they practice. I know it takes a lot more than practicing one particular drill to become a great mandolin player.  You need all the pieces. I just wanted to see if there was one exercise that they did everyday that they valued highly (hoping for some variance). I know that narrows down my question a little bit though,  and I wanted to keep it broad,  and in doing so I've gotten some great responses already,  so thanks to everyone. I appreciate all the input and great answers!

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## catmandu2

> I just wanted to see if there was one exercise that they did everyday that they valued highly...


Scale studies

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CavScout, 

DavidKOS, 

Eegajo

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## DavidKOS

> I'm more interested in playing jazz than bluegrass at the moment. On the other hand, I also love classical pieces.  .........
> 
> As for the comment don't reinvent the wheel. I totally get what you're saying,  but I'm just looking for that one thing that a teacher or pro might do every day (or did do every day) that was really important to then.  Their warm up or the drill they play every day.


Well, if you are serious about jazz AND classical music for mandolin, there is a lot to learn! and to practice. I know - I'm behind on my practice lately.

First, much of the equipment advice is for Bluegrass style playing. You do NOT need a certain mandolin, pick, etc. 

You do need to spend a lot of time with scales, picking exercises, technical studies, etc. for the classical side, along with sight-reading practice. For the jazz side you can apply all that but now need to know your jazz theory, chords, scales to play over the chords, and then learn tunes.

For the jazz you can search the web for any of several sites where you can get jazz fake books like the original Real Books, the Django fakebook, etc. Then learn the heads (melodies) and chords and have fun (of course there's more to jazz than that....but it's a start)

For classical studies, including daily drills, I'd start with these books available for free on the web:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Scuola_del_Man...Munier,_Carlo)

6 books from Carlo Munier - each book has exercises suitable for learning classical mandolin, which ones to practice will depend on your development at any specific time.

http://www.mandoisland.de/eng_schulen.html#.VohzwMArI3g

A whole page of traditional method books.

http://www.federmandolino.it/listing...per_mandolino/

Raffaele Calace's method books, which are another great series of classical mandolin tutors.

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Eegajo, 

gtani7, 

Sweetpea44

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## Mandobart

Its only been mentioned once so far, but for me the single best thing I did (and still do) is play music regularly with others.  I grew up playing violin in orchestra, playing with others every day for many years.  When I taught myself guitar I played mostly alone.  Many years later (about seven years ago) I started mandolin.  Certainly the violin and guitar background helped, but I progressed much faster on mandolin than I ever did on guitar, even though my fingers and mind are nowhere near as flexible and trainable as they were 40 years ago.  Practice and woodsheding are certainly important, but nothing will do you more good than frequent (weekly) regular playing with other players that challenge and support you.

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Jess L.

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## Jess L.

> ... *play what I hear in my head*. This transforms everything, from learning new tunes to improvising.


Yes. Extremely important. 




> ... the most valuable technique you might practice daily... even if it's not directly answering my questions, and you feel it's important knowledge, please, by all means, share. I want to get a wealth of information here. Thanks everybody!


One of the most valuable techniques: *Listening*. And lots of immersion in the genre/style that you wish to learn. 

Becoming comfortable/fluent in music is sort of like learning to become fluent in a spoken language. Listen first, just let the sound soak in. 

The *rest of the process* is technique and *physical dexterity*, which of course *does* require dedicated *practice* to build up coordination etc. A good teacher can help with the physical-technique stuff, and help you steer clear of pitfalls and bad habits so you have a good foundation and the right tools (techniques) to create the sounds that you like. 

Probably already been mentioned somewhere, but I'd say the #1 physical-technique suggestion, is do **not** use your *fretting hand* to *support the instrument's neck*, because that will eventually cramp your style and limit what you can do. Use whatever type of support system that works for you (strap, etc) so that the fretting hand doesn't have to hold up the instrument.

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Eegajo

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## DavidKOS

> Probably already been mentioned somewhere, but I'd say the #1 physical-technique suggestion, is do **not** use your *fretting hand* to *support the instrument's neck*, because that will eventually cramp your style and limit what you can do. Use whatever type of support system that works for you (strap, etc) so that the fretting hand doesn't have to hold up the instrument.


Most classical players do this on bowlbacks with no strap - it's all in how you hold the instrument. And at this point I'm perilously close to breaking a New Year's Resolution.

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Jess L.

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## fatt-dad

echoing the thought of learning to play the melodies in your head.

f-d

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Jess L.

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## JeffD

> but I'm just looking for that one thing that a teacher or pro might do every day (or did do every day) that was really important to then.  Their warm up or the drill they play every day.  The most crucial exercise or technique they practice.!


I get what you are saying, and will let others' answers suffice, but I wonder how you, or anyone, would know whether what "the golden mando-boy" does every day applies to you in your situation? There is a proscriptive element sure, but also a very individual custom element. For example, scales are important, but it might be more important for me to work on holding the pick right, at least for the present.

Without a formal teacher, my guidance is to practice most what I struggle with. Not a bullet proof tactic, but it works. And it tends to avoid fool myself into mediocrity getting good at stuff that I read some prodigy does every day, while neglecting what I need to work on.

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## Jess L.

> Most classical players do this on bowlbacks with no strap - it's all in how you hold the instrument. And at this point I'm perilously close to breaking a New Year's Resolution.


Ah, I see, Resolutions  :Cool:  , sorry didn't mean to tempt!  :Smile:

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DavidKOS, 

Eegajo

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## DavidKOS

For general warm-up and technical maintenance, I play scales, chord arpeggios (3 octaves at least), chromatic scales, but begin slowly and carefully working on tone, accuracy and co-ordination of both hands.

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## foldedpath

> 2) Use a metronome, but use it intelligently.  Most mandolinists like to play fast, and why not?  But you can't just play arbitrarily faster.  If the tune is in 8th notes, you just can't arbitrarily speed it up.  If you want to go faster, you have to play exactly twice as fast and play a stream of 16th notes.  So put on your metronome app, play quarter notes, then 8th notes, then 16ths, etc.  That way when you are chopping along at quarter note pulse and it is your time for a break, you can easily transition to 8ths or (maybe) 16ths, although, truth be told, there aren't many bluegrass/old time tunes with streams of 16ths.


That's an interesting point about being able to suddenly double your speed when needed. I don't play Bluegrass, but that's something I frequently encounter in Scottish strathspey fiddle tunes. You'll get these sudden little bursts of 16th notes in the middle of an 8th note melody line (with dotted note "snaps" in the rhythm pulse to complicate things). I think it's probably more difficult than shifting to a fast speed in a Bluegrass solo, because you have to speed up and slow down again in a very short space within the tune. 

I can handle a quick run of four 16th notes, but there are a few tunes with a longer run of eight 16th notes in a row with string crossings, where I tend to stumble. Like the "King George the Fourth" strathspey. The Cape Breton fiddlers play that thing brutally fast and incredibly smooth on the runs. It's tough to duplicate on a mandolin at that tempo. I need to practice that more, or just give up playing it at full dance speed.

FWIW, I don't use a metronome for this. I can't say if that's a good idea or not, it just works better for me to practice the actual tunes and work out whatever needs to be done there, in context.

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## Randi Gormley

My playing improved tremendously when I practiced 30 to 45 minutes every day -- just putting in the time made a difference. Woodshedding really is necessary to learn to play at any skill level. Then there were workshops -- and playing with people much better than myself. Playing next to other people who had different skills added things I didn't even know existed to my repertoire and having good players demonstrate stuff first-hand was invaluable. Stuff you do in isolation is good, but stuff you learn from other people gives you a whole other level.

I had a student who had terrible posture and problems holding the instrument at a good angle. I made her stand up to play. It's not a bad idea to mix up occasionally so you won't be thrown for a loop in an unexpected situation. just a thought.

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## JeffD

Really basic.  Yes it is important what you do every day. Of course it is. But even more important: doing something every day.

I would rather that you do something great and effective every day, of course, but if you are only gonna pick it up now and then, it doesn't matter what you do when you pick it up.

Get behind your instrument every single day you are sucking wind on this planet.


After that we can talk about what is best for you to be doing every day and for how long.

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## Mandobart

> Stuff you do in isolation is good, but stuff you learn from other people gives you a whole other level.
> 
> It's not a bad idea to mix up occasionally so you won't be thrown for a loop in an unexpected situation. just a thought.


Two very good points. Especially the second, if you ever play onstage with one or more others.  Most of us pick together sitting facing each other.  Then we go to a stage performance, all standing in a line.  If you've never practiced like that you'll really wish you had.

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## farmerjones

> echoing the thought of learning to play the melodies in your head.


The wonderful fiddler Johnny Gimble once revealed in an interview, "a fella once told me, you wanna get so you can play what you hum."

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## JonZ

There are much better ways to impress women.

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## Eegajo

Wow! Thanks for all the great suggestions. There is some really valuable info in this thread. Everyone keep unloading! To answer one person who questioned why I asked this because it's different for everyone. I do realize that, and that is a great point. I asked inspite of the fact though because the idea of this was just to get a wide array of responses, suggestions, tools, tips, approaches, states of mind from some great players. I'm not expecting to find the "golden ticket" for myself personally, but this could be a great wealth of information for, not just me, but everyone new to the instrument, all the way up to intermediate level just looking for some direction, ways to improve, and ways to change their perception or approach when they pick up the instrument tomorrow. This has been more than helpful for me. I actually decided (partly because of this thread) to get lessons with Pete Martin, and I've been using some of the suggestions and tips people have posted here, and they've been great! I just think it's a great way for people to share with the world some things that most people would never think of, especially newcomers who are just getting into the mandolin, and maybe they won't just hang it on the shelf after a month, because they received some good direction and tips from the get go. So again, KEEP IT COMING GUYS! THIS IS AWESOME!

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## Eegajo

> Scale studies


Hey thanks! This is always a good suggestion! If you have any time, is there any way you can be more specific for me. I always know I have to "practice skills", but honestly, when I start looking into it, it's overwhelming. Are there any links, or resources you can point me to for say jazz or bluegrasss, or whatever really! I know scales don't truly pertain to one type of genre, but they're usually pegged that way... I'm thinking of jazz in particular. Anyway, I just want to learn! I'm curious about the term scale STUDIES. I usually just hear, "practice your scales", and then I get lost in the scales sea. What exactly does scale study entail? Thanks a lot!

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## J Mangio

I don't let a day go by, that I at least pick it up, look at it, feel it, and play it, for at least 15 minutes.

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Eegajo

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## catmandu2

> Hey thanks! This is always a good suggestion! If you have any time, is there any way you can be more specific for me. I always know I have to "practice skills", but honestly, when I start looking into it, it's overwhelming. Are there any links, or resources you can point me to for say jazz or bluegrasss, or whatever really! I know scales don't truly pertain to one type of genre, but they're usually pegged that way... I'm thinking of *jazz in particular*. Anyway, I just want to learn! I'm curious about the term scale STUDIES. I usually just hear, "practice your scales", and then I get lost in the scales sea. What exactly does scale study entail? Thanks a lot!


Start with memorizing all your two octave maj/min scales in various positions; after that you can learn more scales, but once you know your basic diatonic scales you can alter these for any scale you need/want - (as with memorizing your 12 basic chord forms on mandolin, enabling you to alter these for any chord extension, partial, specialty, etc..)

Later you can learn/memorize more scales relevant to the idiom you're playing, but start with the basics.  Once you know your basics (scales) you can form all manner of exercises from these - interval studies, arpeggios, slurs, trills, ornaments, chromatics, etc..

The most fundamental aspect for me has been/is _interval recognition_ - for everything in music, but particularly for jazz/improvisation.  Develop your ear.

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Eegajo

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## mmuussiiccaall

If it came down to one skill IMO it would be to play by ear because if you can do that you can play any song in any style that is not above your technique. Playing by ear is kind of a trump card that can get the job done without thought of what you are doing. Most of the heros of the mandolin world play by ear and hopefully also apply theory to get them in the ballpark and seemingly effortlessly "Hit it out of the park". This skill is gotten by the study of EAR TRAINING thru books, software, videos, etc. Here's a post of mine on the subject over on the BANJO HANGOUT "]"http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/310544"] There is a mando chart there and the pertinent theory applies to all instruments. I personally played totally by ear as a teenager and eventually got into situations that were over my head and so I have learned to rely on a heavy dose of theory to get to a state of knowing why I'm playing what I'm playing.

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## Joel Glassman

There is a trap in studying scales. Most people practice scales do re mi etc. up to the octave and then back down. No music sounds like this.  If do=1 re=2 mi=3 then practice scales 321432543 etc or 132243354 etc. This is treating scale patterns in an evolving way. Much more like real music. There are a million possibilities which will allow you to learn the mandolin fretboard really well. Singing them as you play them will help you improvise and transpose the music in your head to the mandolin. This is "musicianship."

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## CavScout

My biggest challenge is in memorizing chord progressions for the tunes I play. I can learn a melody and recall it even if I haven't played that tune in a few weeks.  I learned Arkansas Traveler last week and recorded a rhythm track (so I knew the chords then). But I find a week later its really difficult recall them. Its just a jumble of Ds and As and some G in my head but remembering the progression is tough. I don't get the feeling this is a problem for most folks but it drives me crazy.  One thing I do know is that for  songs with lyrics, that I learn to sing, the chords stick better. Like Walls of Time. But fiddle tunes are confounding.  Thanks for any tips.

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## farmerjones

> My biggest challenge is in memorizing chord progressions for the tunes I play. I can learn a melody and recall it even if I haven't played that tune in a few weeks.  I learned Arkansas Traveler last week and recorded a rhythm track (so I knew the chords then). But I find a week later its really difficult recall them. . . . . . But fiddle tunes are confounding.  Thanks for any tips.


Well, Arkansas Traveler is a "changey" tune, like Blackberry Blossom.  They only get better the more you play them and "print" them into memory. Some fiddle tunes you can chop on the A nearly all the way through with a quick D change towards the end. 
If you don't understand what I, IV, V means, Google "Nashville Numbering."  But several thousand tunes can be played with those three chords. There's a 50/50 chance of going correctly to the first change, even if you're just guessing. In fact, I find it important to be able to hear the bad/wrong chord change as much as the correct.  Some tunes it seems, either the IV, or the V sound like they fit. Another thing to train your ear to hear is that minor chord, either the ii or the vi. Then you can work on the hundreds of tunes that progress in the ii, V, I motif.  Or 4 chords tunes, like the I, vi, IV, V motif. (Unchained Melody, Mr. Postman, Piano Man)
If you can chord along and accompany your own singing, You'll find it matters less what kind of instrument is in your hands, and the world opens up. Picking a melodic solo break out can be a parallel effort, or something that comes later.

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CavScout

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## Relio

> My biggest challenge is in memorizing chord progressions for the tunes I play. I can learn a melody and recall it even if I haven't played that tune in a few weeks.  I learned Arkansas Traveler last week and recorded a rhythm track (so I knew the chords then). But I find a week later its really difficult recall them. Its just a jumble of Ds and As and some G in my head but remembering the progression is tough. I don't get the feeling this is a problem for most folks but it drives me crazy.  One thing I do know is that for  songs with lyrics, that I learn to sing, the chords stick better. Like Walls of Time. But fiddle tunes are confounding.  Thanks for any tips.


A lot of people have this problem. These people also have something in common, when they practice instrumentals they rarely every practice playing the rhythm. Next instrumental you learn, practice playing the chord progression 50% of the time and I think you'll see a big difference in your ability to remember it!

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CavScout

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## CavScout

Thanks both to FarmerJones and Relio. Both of your responses are really helpful. I will admit Relio that when I learn a tune I focus playing the melody much more than rhythm so I need to even that out. I like FJ's suggestion and I am aware of chord numbering but my approach has been rote memorization rather than learning a process that will help me figure out the changes even if I don't have them memorized.  I need to learn some more theory I think but thanks both for your time and suggestions.  Brian

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## David L

Part of the problem with learning the chords to simple 3 chord tunes is the ambiguous nature of the progression-(where exactly does that IV chord happen?, are we playing a V here?) Non-diatonic chords are obvious and easy to hear when they happen, but diatonic notes sometimes have a choice of harmony that sounds good.

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## farmerjones

> Part of the problem with learning the chords to simple 3 chord tunes is the ambiguous nature of the progression-(where exactly does that IV chord happen?, are we playing a V here?) Non-diatonic chords are obvious and easy to hear when they happen, but diatonic notes sometimes have a choice of harmony that sounds good.


Oh yes. Michael Martin Murphy's Carolina in the Pines. The first change sounds good either way. Its only when one gets to the second (or is it 3rd?) change does the correct choice reveal itself. The point is good one. Use your ears and if the change doesn't sound obvious, the correct change may reveal itself later. Then one must remember. 

A note on remembering; Seems like I only remember what I "have to" remember. If I make a lyric sheet, I get tied to it. If I make a lyric and chord sheet, I get tied to it. If I make a lyric sheet with the chords only marked on the first verse and chorus, unless the chords are very simple, a train wreck will happen. Call it rehearsing or practice, if you want to be able to work without a net (cheat sheets) practice/rehearse without a net.

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## Jess L.

> ... the most valuable technique you might practice daily, a technique/drill you once used and was very important to your current ability level, or just a general tip... that could greatly accelerate the playing of others...


Backing tracks, for practice. Either variable speed (via software or internet links) for people who are comfortable with and have access to computer stuff, or else a regular plain ol' easy-to-use CD-r or other recording media, that has the tune & backing track recorded in at least two speeds: slow and regular.

For my own learning, I prefer to create backing tracks that *also* include a light unobtrusive *melody for the tune itself*, it helps me to not lose my place in the tune if I stumble on a difficult passage and try to recover gracefully (that is VERY important, if you make a goof just keep on pickin' & try to jump back into the tune as smoothly as possible, not where you left off, but where the tune is now). Also, having the melody present helps the learner to come up with their own variations that fit in ok with the 'normal' way of playing the tune, useful practice for playing with other people later.

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## jshane

I just thought of another thing:

Avoid practicing "wrong". It is tempting to practice a tune at a quick tempo-- but if one does so and reaches a tough phrase that causes one to stumble or insert a "spare" beat for two, the error is actually reinforced(practiced). It becomes incorporated into how one plays the tune.

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## Don Julin

Learn to play downbeats with downstrokes and the &'s with upstrokes. It's all pretty easy after that.

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chasray, 

J Walsh

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## Will Patton

What a cornucopia of helpful tips!  Pete's advice to relax behind the instrument is basic, up and down picking, learning tunes, all invaluable.  I pretty much play every day and I start by playing scales/arps in Ab, Eb and Db just to stretch the old fingers.  Then I'll learn a tune,these days either Bach, be-bop or a French-Canadian tune.  I keep a notebook of what I'm working on and revisit every day for about 2 weeks, adding some new ones and letting others marinate. One thing that works for me, and I haven't seen addressed specifically here, is to think of the tune as phrases - - not just notes following notes.  It's easier to learn and more organic. And then sing along as you play the phrase - connecting that singing part of the brain to the finger brain.  If there's a passage that always stumps you, it is usually the right hand picking mechanics - - see Don's post above.

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chasray, 

mandrian

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## Brian Evans

What fun to read this thread and all the really excellent advice.  I clicked on it wondering if my personal best advice would be there, lo and behold the first reply had what I thought was the best advice I could offer a beginning player just nailed!  In short, play songs and play with rhythm.  Play songs so that you learn something you can play again and again, and gain great pleasure from.  Play with rhythm so other people like what you play as well as you do.  Good foundation stones for a beginning player I think.

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farmerjones

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## pops1

I have told my students " If you practice an hour a day for eight years you will be X good. If you practice eight hours a day for one year you will far exceed that and be so much better." In other words you get out what you put in, and it is exponential. The more you put in the more you get out, the more you get out the more fun you have and the more fun you have the more you put in. And it is all about the fun, isn't it.

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farmerjones, 

Randolph

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## Nate Lee

Someone may have already said this, but one change made a huge difference for me. For many years, my focus was strictly on notes. I played lots of notes, and I learned tons of songs and licks. I was doing all the "stuff", but it never sounded that great. When I started using most of my practice time to work on tone and timing, everything changed very rapidly. Suddenly all the old tired licks that I thought were boring, or juvenile, started to sound great. Even simple licks that I thought were for beginners started to sound musically interesting to me. Complex licks and tunes only sound as good as the tone and timing they are being played with. If you can learn to play simple things with great timing and tone, you will sound like a pro. After that you can learn the complex stuff, which will sound that much better because of the time put into mastering the basics.

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Al Trujillo

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