# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Frank Benko F5 copy

## mrmando

Interesting mandolin here: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-20s-...item234ca5cc13

The seller's wrong about the age of the instrument. Frank Benko wasn't born until 1925, and emigrated from Croatia in the '40s. He set up shop as a luthier first in Montreal and later in Toronto: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-20s-...item234ca5cc13

----------


## Timbofood

Would it be too much to ask for ONE picture to be in focus?

----------

Dobe

----------


## mrmando

ONE picture IS in focus.

----------


## Jim Garber

Fuzzy focus or not... we need to document before the listing disappears...

Martin... are you actually familiar with this maker? Have you seen others? Was he from Pittsburgh? Where did you get your info?




> *Item description*
> Inside markings are as follows "Radiona" "Tambura Mandolina Gitara" Frank Benko " Cant make out bottom words but center word appears to be dominione.

----------


## Timbofood

Which one Martin? They are pretty bad, the peghead one is almost in focus, at the tip.
Maybe one of us needs better glasses :Grin: 
Sorry but, they aren't worth much in my opinion.
Too bad, it is kind of interesting. I second Jim, what can you tell us about this guy?

----------


## Dobe

20's-30's ?  Riiight. " Flat back is solid looks really nice no cracks. Best looking part of the instrument."  Would be surprised if it is flat.  Too bad he didn't take a blurry pic of it ! Looks pretty interesting though.

----------

Timbofood

----------


## Jim Garber

Aha! I can't wait for Martin to return -- he prob is at some rehearsal, really playing music, or something.

This *article about Frank Benko* is where he got his info. Interesting. He is also famous for his handmade cases.

----------

Timbofood

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

Hello, I a the guy selling the Frank Benko Mandolin on Ebay

I will be uploading new and better pictures within the next hour or so.

Look at my other listings, this was found with the Wurlitzer Saxophone which I was able to precisely date in the late 19 teens.

My wife inherited these from her grandfather when he passed away. All I know is what google taught me and a few people who were asking questions about it. I deal in sports cards and sports memorabilia not antique instruments. 

Here and on Ebay Ill do my best to answer any and all questions that Im able to. I understand on here you try to document these things for historys sake and I respect and will gladly support that in anyway I can.

Please any questions do not hesitate to ask me. You can reach me here, on ebay or email, Joestutz@rocketmail.com
            Thanks, Joey

----------


## jim simpson

Nice A model in the Benko article, much more refined looking than the F-5 model. I thought the headstock of the F-5 would have "Gibson" on it like so many early 70's examples by various makers.

----------


## Timbofood

Very cool Jim!
Joe, after seeing the article I am very much looking forward to seeing better pictures.  Most of the folks here have far more in depth knowledge than I, if someone asks a question you can't answer, put it to the folks here, you will get answers by the page!
I apologize for my crack about picture quality, it's just kind of a pet peeve of mine. The better the picture, the more interest you might generate.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

No problem on the crack lol. I deal in sports card,I get crystal clear pics of them by scanning them but I cant scan a mnadolin. To be honest I had no clue what this mandolin would be worth. I started it at 169 more as a fishing expedition, if it sells it sells if it didnt id put it in a closet till I learned more. Now with all the interest and ovious value I am getting more and better pictures. My oldest niece has one of them fancy ipones and is coming by when the snow stops to take more and clearer pics of both the mandolin and the saxophone for me.

In the mandolin case was also a wired thing that when i googled it I beleive it to be a guitar pick up. It says The Turner co cedar rapids model nxc 1957 , would yous happen to know what thats about? I dont think it goes to the mandolin but was in the case with it.

----------


## Jim Garber

Welcome, Joe. I am looking fwd to seeing the new and better photos. While you are at it, take pics of that pickup. I never heard of that brand but it could possibly be a mandolin pick up. Martin who started this thread hosts an electric mandolin site and he might know what that is. 

Even from the fuzzy pics it looks like your grandfather-in-law played this one a lot. It does look like it has a bit of wear. A potential buyer would also be concerned about any cracks, sinkage of the top or warpage of the neck.

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

Check out the 12th Fret in Ontario. - www.12fret.com - .   Frank Benko made his instruments there.  There's an interesting article there about him.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards



----------

William Smith

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

Hope these help, the bottom pic of the hole , i have the white thing that goes in it, just took it out for pic

----------


## mrmando

Sorry, I meant to link to that 12th Fret article in my original post, and instead posted the eBay link twice. 

Looks like it's in rough shape. Heel crack: Ouch. Needs a lot of cleaning up and repair. At one point someone played the snot out of it, but it has been neglected for quite some time.

A photo of the label might help determine when it was made. Tailpiece suggests pre-1967.

Still an interesting curiosity, since prior to 1980 very few indie builders made F5s that weren't Gibson copies.

Not likely to go much higher than the current bid price, given all the work it needs. The thing to do would be to call the 12th Fret and ask if they're interested in it.

----------


## jim simpson

The pictures help - a crack at heel of the neck is always a concern plus the one close to the end pin. Could be a project for someone to fix up. Thanks for the photos.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

Thank you for your feedback. Any bidders not happy with it are welcome to back out and I will still honor whatever the ending sale price is. Its of no use to me and I would for someone to get it who is gonna use it and love it.

----------


## Jim Garber

> Check out the 12th Fret in Ontario. - www.12fret.com - .   Frank Benko made his instruments there.  There's an interesting article there about him.


Yes, Martin meant to link to that article and I linked to it *above*.

----------


## Jim Garber

Joe: Is there a label? If so, if you can photograph it, that would be great, otherwise let us know what is says on it or even if there is any writing inside the body.

Also, does your wife or her family have any photos of her grandfather playing it or does any family member remember him playing? It is always nice when you find out tidbits of provenance like that.

Also, any photos of that Turner co cedar rapids model nxc 1957 pickup? Know of that one, Martin?

BTW photo #10 seems to show a patch of Bondo or plastic wood on the lower point. 

I agree that this looks like a fixer-upper. Interesting tho.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

> Joe: Is there a label? If so, if you can photograph it, that would be great, otherwise let us know what is says on it or even if there is any writing inside the body.
> 
> Also, does your wife or her family have any photos of her grandfather playing it or does any family member remember him playing? It is always nice when you find out tidbits of provenance like that.
> 
> Also, any photos of that Turner co cedar rapids model nxc 1957 pickup? Know of that one, Martin?
> 
> BTW photo #10 seems to show a patch of Bondo or plastic wood on the lower point. 
> 
> I agree that this looks like a fixer-upper. Interesting tho.


Photo 10 is where the small piece came off but i have that piece in the case.

Cant get a clear photo of the inside label. Heres best I can describe it.  "Radiona" "Tambura Mandolina Gitara" Frank Benko " Cant make out bottom words but center word appears to be dominione and the numbers 359 to the left of what i think is dominione , its hard to read label is dirty, ive tried to wipe some dirt away with a Qtip but not much luck.

Here is a pic for the "pickup" thing i was talking about.

----------

John Eischen

----------


## Jim Garber

Not sure what the label means esp "Radiona" and "dominione" unless those were Croatian words -- maybe he sold radios and dominione means dominion?

As for the pickup... I found a Turner Microphone Company catalog online and it had this pickup. Yours may be missing one knob.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

> Not sure what the label means esp "Radiona" and "dominione" unless those were Croatian words -- maybe he sold radios and dominione means dominion?
> 
> As for the pickup... I found a Turner Microphone Company catalog online and it had this pickup. Yours may be missing one knob.


Your absolutely right it looks like there should be another knob there. Thank you

----------


## mrmando

I've seen pickups like that, although the brand name doesn't ring a bell. 

_Radiona_ means "workshop" in Croatian.

359 Rue Dominion could have been Benko's address in Montreal, before he moved to Toronto: https://www.google.com/maps/place/35...625895dd1c2f93

----------

phillysphinestsportscards

----------


## Jim Garber

Ah.... now we are getting somewhere. I didn't know you spoke Croatian, Martin.

Turner was a big microphone maker. Attached is the whole catalog.

----------

phillysphinestsportscards

----------


## mrmando

If this was indeed built in Montreal, that means it's from 1952 or earlier. 

We know of only one other handmade non-Gibson-copy F5-style mandolin made that early: the 1934 Joe Wilson F5.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

Ive done some more cleaning of the label inside this is what i see

Label is oval in design












Top in largest letters is Radiona
Middle in same size letters is Frank Benko
Bottom 359? Dominione  ?????  Que.


Outside the label design but still on the label is pencil markings which i previously did not see. Dont make no sense to me

6
X11
42

----------


## mrmando

Well, Que. could be Quebec, supporting the notion of its being a Montreal-made instrument.

----------


## Jim Garber

> Ive done some more cleaning of the label inside this is what i see
> 
> Label is oval in design
> 
> Top in largest letters is Radiona
> Middle in same size letters is Frank Benko
> Bottom 359? Dominione  ?????  Que.
> 
> Outside the label design but still on the label is pencil markings which i previously did not see. Dont make no sense to me
> ...


Yes! Sounds like Martin is right. Address would be 359 Rue Dominion, Montreal, Quebec. Those numbers could very we'll be the date he completed it. I would guess it, given the fact that he was European, that it was  6/11/42 -- November 6, 1942. 

So IIRC he arrived in Canada two years before. This could be an early commission which might explain workmanship that looks less impeccable than the A model on 12th Fret's blog. 

Joe: did your grandfather-in-law live in Montreal? Possibly he bought this second hand.

----------


## Timbofood

Joe, it needs some serious love to be put right but, the right person will get things sorted out.
Yeah, I know what you mean about not having all the electronic chops, when I get fouled up I call my twelve year old grand daughter!
Good luck and thanks,for the improved pictures.

----------


## mrmando

Has anyone tried to get in touch with Grant at the 12th Fret? Since he knew Frank personally, and claims they've had 30 or 40 Benko instruments through the shop over the years, he's got to know a thing or two.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

> Has anyone tried to get in touch with Grant at the 12th Fret? Since he knew Frank personally, and claims they've had 30 or 40 Benko instruments through the shop over the years, he's got to know a thing or two.


I emailed them a good day before I listed it. Never heard back.

----------


## ollaimh

i have a musical acquaintance who found a frank benko A 4 Gibson copy in a montreal junk store--ah the old days when everything showed up in montreal junk stores(they are almost all gone now).   it was very well made and a cannon of a player. a truly great mandolin.(had been hard played and needed a refrett)   this f 5 looks like it will need a lot of repair but I bet it is worth it.   I might bid if I was looking for an f but I have too many mandolins right now judging by the a I have heard(by benko)  I would gamble that f will come out of a top repair man's shop sounding like a great mandolin.

I also saw a benko laouto-a greek bass bouzouki, made in Chicago--if I remember.  it was beautiful but had had very poor repair and I wasn't as flush at the time.

I am tempted but it's probably too much for me.

contacting grant at the 12th fret , or dave wren, who now makes his own instruments but was at the 12th fret, would likely yield a lot of information.

benko also made a number of Balkan instruments that are very sought after by Balkan players.  there was a set of tamburitiza instruments of his that were played by a Vancouver bassed Croatian band. all top quality.

----------


## allenhopkins

Currently at $625.

----------


## JH Murray

Rue Dominion is in the Little Burgundy district of Montreal. The great jazz pianist Oscar Peterson grew up in that neighbourhood. A lot of immigrants settled there.

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

Thank you all for the great information, Ive learned alot from you all. The auction is ending in 3 hrs and had surpassed what I had hoped for ( starting bid lol) I now know mandolins can be quite valuable and will be keeping my eye open for them in the future  :Smile:

----------


## houseworker

Finished at $930 + shipping.  Might well have drawn more bidders if it had been a 10 day auction rather than 3.  Did anyone here win it?

The seller's Wurlitzer Lyric saxophone would also have benefited from a longer listing and (critically) some decent pictures.  Providing it was low pitch (no way of telling from the listing) the buyer got a bargain.

----------


## Cary Fagan

I was just in the 12th Fret last week. sorry I didn't know about this.  Love to see one of his mandolins.   It would be interesting to compile a list or information on early Canadian luthiers.  I've posted about Peter Porayko who built mandolins and other instruments in Hamilton, Ontario, from the 1930s.  Also an immigrant from Eastern Europe (Eukraine).

----------


## allenhopkins

Went for $930 with 20 bids.  If what's been said about Benko's work here holds up, someone got a bargain.

By the way, it seems weird to me that eBay sellers often think that throwing in a couple of old packages of strings found in the case, enhances the value of an instrument.  So what if they're "Gibson strings" -- other than listing "Gibson" will get hits from those potential bidders searching on "Gibson mandolin"? 

There's a certain amount of anecdotal interest in old strings, picks, and other ephemera that sellers throw in, but that fact wouldn't make me raise my bid $1.00.

----------


## Jeff Mando

Curious how it might compare with a 50's Gibson F-5?

Reminds me, somewhat, of a luthier in Nashville in the 50's & 60's, JW Gower, who made a living making Martin copy guitars.  His gimmick was he charged about half of what a Martin would cost.  Pretty nice guitars.

----------


## OldGus

> ...it seems weird to me that eBay sellers often think that throwing in a couple of old packages of strings found in the case, enhances the value of an instrument...


It doesn't enhance the instruments value but it doesn't hurt the auction and is kind of thoughtful... it says they are new strings in vintage style so they probably bought them new...

----------

allenhopkins

----------


## ollaimh

if the buyer is willing to put another $930 into it, I bet he got a deal.   benko was a great maker,  thus was probably an early one so maybe not quite up to the level of the fifties but still looks great

----------


## barney 59

> Curious how it might compare with a 50's Gibson F-5?
> 
> Reminds me, somewhat, of a luthier in Nashville in the 50's & 60's, JW Gower, who made a living making Martin copy guitars.  His gimmick was he charged about half of what a Martin would cost.  Pretty nice guitars.


 J.W. Gower was the nuts and bolts man behind Grammer guitars--they were his design. There are some Gower Guitars that are dead ringers to The Grammer and built a decade before Grammer began. Billy Grammer was a well liked Opry member that seemed to have managed to get most of his friends to buy Grammer Guitars. Porter, Dolly, Wilburn Bros. Bobby Bare,JR  etc. Check out those old 60's -70's shows and you'll see that there are an astonishing number of Nashville cats playing Grammers. They say that they never gave them away as endorsements(but those Wilburn Bros certainly would have wanted a deal!).  I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure Billy Grammer did not make guitars himself.
   Benko being a good maker or not them heal cracks --that's a game changer and effects the value of any mandolin.

----------


## Jim Garber

I hope that someone here did win this one or that Joe can direct the new owner (after the transaction is complete) to this thread so we can have a report as to how it is in person, construction details, and how they intend to restore it and how it plays and sounds after the work is done.

----------

houseworker

----------


## phillysphinestsportscards

> I hope that someone here did win this one or that Joe can direct the new owner (after the transaction is complete) to this thread so we can have a report as to how it is in person, construction details, and how they intend to restore it and how it plays and sounds after the work is done.


Yes I would be glad to. The buyer has told me he plans on restoring it. Unfortunately I can not disclose who the buyer is. All I can say is its well on its way to Texas and I will direct the buyer to this thread and this website. 

To the person commenting about the gibson strings. I do not deal in instruments at all. In fact I tripled my knowledge on them just from reading all the responses here. The strings were simply in the case already when I got it. I just happened to read the thread about putting the word gibson in the title long after i had listed it. Glad I did though lol . Im into yard sales and flea markets alot and in the future I will be keeping an eye out for mandolins in particular especialy anything Gibson, branded or F5. 

Thank you once again everyone for your help.

----------

allenhopkins

----------


## allenhopkins

Coupla Benkos turned up at Bernunzio's today, an A-model with bound f-holes and a short-scale mandocello or possibly an OM -- John has it cello-strung CGDA.

Very nice instruments, reasonable prices.  *Here's* the A and *here's* the 'cello.  I played both of them -- briefly -- and they seemed good value for the money.

----------

Cary Fagan

----------


## ollaimh

> Coupla Benkos turned up at Bernunzio's today, an A-model with bound f-holes and a short-scale mandocello or possibly an OM -- John has it cello-strung CGDA.
> 
> Very nice instruments, reasonable prices.  *Here's* the A and *here's* the 'cello.  I played both of them -- briefly -- and they seemed good value for the money.


mega cool instruments.   of course as a cannuck i remember people finding these in junk stores for a couple hundred bucks so its hard to shell out those prices.   however the junk store finds are probably over.

the A  looks a lot like my friends, but his was round sound hole. a really nice instrument.  this one is in much nicer shape.

i recently was told that the chicago benko instruments were probably made by franks youger cousin, who he taught for a while.

----------


## William Smith

I have the 34 Joe Wilson getting restored/modernized, I'd like this Benko F-5 to restore! Has whoever got this had her fixed? Let me know as I would love to make this one playable-its rough but I see the potential! PM me if interested as I will get it done!

----------


## CarlM

> In the mandolin case was also a wired thing that when i googled it I beleive it to be a guitar pick up. It says The Turner co cedar rapids model nxc 1957 , would yous happen to know what thats about? I dont think it goes to the mandolin but was in the case with it.


I enjoyed the comments about the Turner microphone/pickup.  My wife's grandmother and aunts worked for Turner Microphone for many years, one of them till it closed in the late 1970s.  Most of their microphones were for public address systems and ham radio.  John B. Turner was a prominent mortician.  He or his son started the company to produce microphones because they could not find a decent microphone  to use in their funeral homes.  

A lot of them were used by the military during WWII and on aircraft radios because a major avionics manufacturer is still located here.

They also produced embalming machines for many years.

----------


## atetone

I have a Benko A style with F holes.
I think it was a Centenial model or something like that.
I can't really remember right now but I think he built an F hole and an oval hole of this model.
I have the F hole one and I know that at one time Twelfth Fret in Toronto had the oval hole.
I would love to get the oval hole one for a matching set.
Now I might be wrong in stating that there was only one of each built in this model.
I can't remember but I do know that they are pretty unique.
Anyone have the oval in their closet?

----------

William Smith

----------


## William Smith

Any photos of the A model-or any other pix? I love these old odd balls!

----------


## William Smith

I think these are great photos of an obscure quality mandolin, I'd love to get my hands on her to restore to playable condition! Looks likw a neck set is also in order! I'd love to give this one some justice!

----------


## ollaimh

> Well, Que. could be Quebec, supporting the notion of its being a Montreal-made instrument.


yes definately quebec.  frank benko had a shop in little burgundy in montreal before he moved to toronto.  but it was in the forties

----------


## ollaimh

i remember two different friends finding frank benko mandolins in flea markets in the good old days. they were a couple of hundred dollars and fantastic finds.  benko was an excellent lutheir.   i believe he had a cousin who made instruments in chicago as well, which were mostly balkan instruments.  i saw a set of tamburitza rchestra instruments made by another benko and the label said chicago.  also to quality lutheiry.    i'd snap up any benko instruments if cheap and restore them.

----------


## atetone

> Any photos of the A model-or any other pix? I love these old odd balls!


I will try to get some decent pictures as soon as I get a chance.

----------


## AndyV

Wow! Bernunzio had a handsome Benko "mandocello".  Or is it an OM? 21" scale

----------


## oldplinker

I sold the mandolin and mandocello to Bernunzio in the original cases. They were flawless. Made on Kingston rd. in Toronto The tailpiece covers  were all dated 1967 the centennial year. His son made the pickguards and tailpieces and the beauty cases.He worked out of a shop shared by a maker named Lado. Steve Martinko (still alive) worked for Benko. Most of this info can be had by contacting Grant at 12fret.com. I think he owns some personally.The original cello was ordered by the Schevchenko orchestra and passed to the Welland mando orch. The mando was bought new by Joe Perkell and passed to Syd Dolgay when the neck glue came loose. The cello could be strung as an octive mando or cello. A one piece mahogany back similar in size to a Gibson cello. Mahogany sides, neck and Gibson tuners(kluson ) I think.Somewhere I have pictures both.Blonde tops, if you ask me to I will try to find them on the new computer. yours, oldplinker@gmail.com

----------


## oldplinker

Here are some shots of a Benko mandocello:

----------

ollaimh, 

William Smith

----------


## atetone

Wow!  That is a beauty.
Looks pristine and that is a great colour.

----------


## William Smith

I like the fact it has a long scale neck! It still blows my mind that most all old Gibson's and such have short necks, all beside the style 5 instruments! The longer scale saying the neck joint meets body at 15th fret is so much more beneficial IMHO anyway for playability and tone?

----------


## ollaimh

he also invented the benko gambit in chess

----------


## oldplinker

Here are some photos of a 1967 I used to own:     

Pick guard is not original. Hope you enjoy them.  (Old Plinker)

----------

William Smith

----------


## William Smith

That is one gorgeous A style! Love the bound F holes and the Pearl? blocks! I love old F-5's with pearl blocks, I think it just has that neat factor granted this is A-5 style but awesome!

----------


## Jim Garber

> Here are some shots of a Benko mandocello:


I love the period Dymo label tape!

----------


## atetone

Here are some pictures of my Benko Model B6    serial # 26-38
I might have the pickguard hiding around here somewhere.i

Lightly flamed back, mop block inlays  1967 Centenial tailpiece

----------

Bruce Clausen, 

William Smith

----------


## William Smith

That's another very nice A model, love the whole look! What a great little package with the blocks, and bound F-holes! Is this a early 0's model? I ask because of the tuners?

----------


## atetone

I am not sure of the age but the Centenial tailpiece ensures that it was 1967 or newer.
Canada's Centenial was in 1967.

----------


## William Smith

I meant to say those enclosed Kluson tuners! But stil very nice mandolin! I'd add one of those baby's to my herd! NICE! I'd still rather have the beat old F-5 style shown earlier because I love well worn examples but that me!

----------


## atetone

I am not sure what Benko was usually using for tuners.
Might be that he used whatever he could get his hands on?
He might not have been stuck on any one brand.

----------

William Smith

----------


## William Smith

That's true I've seen many Gibson mandolins, say cheap 1923-24 A-1's with the expensive Loar style silver plated, engraved pearl button arrowhead or bump end tuners! Well bump end 25 onward!

----------


## Cary Fagan

Reviving this thread because a Benko archtop guitar has just appeared on Kijiji in Montreal and I thought people might want to see it.  Certainly is different. Clearly carved top and back.

Here's the listing:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/winni...peg/1546785832

----------

