# Music by Genre > Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk >  The Slow Air

## M.Marmot

Listening to Tony Mac Mahon playing some slow airs on accordion has got me wondering, again, how to approach playing a slow air on mandolin? 

In many ways i can see the mandolin as being both difficult, and yet perhaps because of it's intimacy, a very suitable instrument to play slow airs on.

If anyone is willing to share their views or experiences on playing slow airs on mandolin i'd be interested to read them.

Likewise if anyone has favorite slow airs, on any instrument, on youtube or elsewhere that they would like to share, maybe we could post them here, for a little reference collection?

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## Jesse Harmon

You might pick up "Slow Airs and Set Dances"  Eugene O'Donnell.  These are really lovely fiddle airs so I suppose it might be of some help for mandolin.  The "Celtic Lament" must have had some kind of influence on the Ashokan Farewell.  This some great listening whether they help the approach to mandolin or not.  Too many sweet ones to list but "Planxty O'Donnell'"
 is a standout.

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M.Marmot

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## Bertram Henze

Does a lament count? You need some cheating with that.
What helps most is an instrument with a long sustain and a flute  :Wink:

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## M.Marmot

> You might pick up "Slow Airs and Set Dances"  Eugene O'Donnell.  These are really lovely fiddle airs so I suppose it might be of some help for mandolin.  The "Celtic Lament" must have had some kind of influence on the Ashokan Farewell.  This some great listening whether they help the approach to mandolin or not.  Too many sweet ones to list but "Planxty O'Donnell'"
>  is a standout.


Just done googling that - plays with Mick Maloney, no less. 
I think i might be tracking that one down.

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## M.Marmot

> Does a lament count? You need some cheating with that.
> What helps most is an instrument with a long sustain and a flute


Very nice - i suppose a lament does count at that, as long as it's an instrumental.

The problem i am trying to figure is how best to approach slow airs, without the 'cheating'  :Laughing:

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## Eddie Sheehy

For Slow Airs like Marbhna Luimni, My Lagan Love, Mna na h-Eireann, I use a lot of tremolo on single courses and double-stops.  Just playing single notes is too sparse to hold the tune...

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## John Kelly

As Bertram says, you get a better slow air with an instrument with longer sustain.  Most of the slow airs I play are written for fiddle or in fact for the bagpipes and I tend to use my octave or bouzouki to play them, but here is an example I recorded some time back which was written by Nigel Gatherer as a tribute to the late Alison Stephens, the classical mandolinist who died so tragically young about two years ago.  I used my mandolin on this one, with added synthed sounds from keyboard, but you can decide whether the mandolin can handle a slow air - I used it as this was Alison's chosen instrument.

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## donaidh

Dagger Gordon plays some slow airs beautifully on the mandolin on his recent cd Like Father Like Son. Lots of tremelo and double stops to fill out the sound. I'm thinking of two tunes in particular - Sitting in the Stern of A Boat and MacKenzie's Farewell. The first of these is in his Scottish Mandolin tutor book and the second is on this Youtube clip:

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## donaidh

And these Scottish waltzes by Kevin MacLeod show very nicely that these types of tune can sound great on the mandolin!

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## M.Marmot

There are some lovely airs here - and some fine playing too - certainly have to add them to my learning list.

I am beginning to think that the key to the airs is trying to keep the impulse of movement without speeding up - in a way i find these types of tune very close to the Baroque sound.

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## Bertram Henze

> ...very close to the Baroque sound.


Indeed - I remember some flute player saying that the modern dance tunes are just a disco beat version of baroque dances, so the analogy works the other way round, too. From slow airs, there is a way back to Bach; when you pass that gateway, give my regards to Mr. T. O'Carolan whom you'll meet there.

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## harper

Eric Allan has a number of free downloads of Scottish tunes he has arranged for three instruments.  Many are slow airs.  My friends and I have played many of them on mandolins and guitar and they are lovely.  I know this link has been given somewhere else in this forum but I couldn't locate it, so here it is again. http://www.ericallanscottishmusic.co...?pageid=375185

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John Kelly, 

Martin Jonas

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## M.Marmot

> Indeed - I remember some flute player saying that the modern dance tunes are just a disco beat version of baroque dances, so the analogy works the other way round, too. From slow airs, there is a way back to Bach; when you pass that gateway, give my regards to Mr. T. O'Carolan whom you'll meet there.


Ahh... yes, that gate was passed a while back -

I was living in Lyon and i spotted a poster for a Baroque music festival to be held in the city - and right up there with the likes of JS Bach and Scarlatti was the local lad 'O Carolan' - sure now, the fella done good.




The concert, which i did not get to see, was for a baroque ensemble and for a group who played Irish traditional music... at the least an interesting experiment.

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Bertram Henze

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## M.Marmot

> Eric Allan has a number of free downloads of Scottish tunes he has arranged for three instruments.  Many are slow airs.  My friends and I have played many of them on mandolins and guitar and they are lovely.  I know this link has been given somewhere else in this forum but I couldn't locate it, so here it is again. http://www.ericallanscottishmusic.co...?pageid=375185


Thank you for the link - i had not seen that one before - i was a bit giddy going through the list.

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## Bertram Henze

> I know this link has been given somewhere else in this forum but I couldn't locate it, so here it is again. http://www.ericallanscottishmusic.co...?pageid=375185


Nice to see _Archibald MacDonald of Keppoch_ on top of the list - a favourite of mine (my version is full of cheating, again, but David Hansen's is pure and honest like a dram).

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## JeffD

I love Archibald MacDonald of Keppoch. I learned it off of a Johnny Cunningham record.

I agree about the sustain - a mandolin with a good amount of sustain really helps. 

But more important to me is dynamic range. For a slow air I need a mandolin to sound wonderful without a change in tone at every volume level. If I have that, I can really do some expressive playing.

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## harper

Here are arrangements I just made of two settings of the Irish slow air Katty Nowlan.  These are different tunes than the one in D Major attributed to O'Carolan.  I hope you like them.

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Martin Jonas

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## Dagger Gordon

> Dagger Gordon plays some slow airs beautifully on the mandolin on his recent cd Like Father Like Son. Lots of tremelo and double stops to fill out the sound. I'm thinking of two tunes in particular - Sitting in the Stern of A Boat and MacKenzie's Farewell. The first of these is in his Scottish Mandolin tutor book and the second is on this Youtube clip:


Thanks Donaidh,

I'll play some airs for you at the weekend! I'm told you'll be in Achiltibuie.

Incidentally, I recorded Archibald MacDonald of Keppoch on my CD (actually cassette at the time) 'Highland Mandolin' (1988). It had Katie Harrigan on harp and Malcolm Robertson on low whistle.

I know Eric Allen. He lives in Inverness and has done a huge amount for Scottish music over many years. Very nice man.  A retired solicitor, I believe.

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## donaidh

> I'll play some airs for you at the weekend! I'm told you'll be in Achiltibuie.


Yes, I'll be there and it'll be great to meet you. I'll put my request in now for you to give us your excellent rendition of Sitting In the Stern of A Boat!

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## Dagger Gordon

Cheers,

How are you getting there BTW?  Are you needing a lift on Friday to Achiltibuie from Ullapool?

I think I'm right in saying you are in Lewis so I imagine you are taking a ferry to Ullapool on Friday?

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## John Kelly

I'm going to be arriving in Ullapool at some time in the afternoon of Friday, Donaidh - just noting what Mr Gordon has said above, and will drive through to Achiltibuie to get to Kevin's for the evening session if this is of use to you or to anyone else who might be travelling there.  Will return to Ullapool after the session (hope the hotel gives a late key!) and then will be around all day on the Saturday to sample whatever is on offer.  I am staying there Saturday night as well before heading back to Dunoon on the Sunday.
if you need transport PM me and I'll give you my mobile number.

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## donaidh

Cheers Dagger & John! I will be coming over on the ferry but I'll have my own car so transport will be fine.

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## Eddie Sheehy

Roisin Dubh... On a Baritone Resonator Mandola



and Crested Hens...

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## Marty Jacobson

Wrong account.  :Wink:

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## MonicaJacobson

Oops, accidentally posted on Marty's... 

As I was saying...

I'm glad someone started this thread. While I am growing to enjoy all mandolin music more and more, when I want to play, I play slow celtic airs. I say celtic because I don't really know whether they are Irish or Scottish, I just like them. Unfortunately, it does indeed seem to be really hard to get a slow air to sound good on a mandolin and to make matters worse, my tremolo is terrible. 

Here's what I've come up with meanwhile:



I've actually started playing around with a Waldzither and I have great hopes for the extra string and the longer sustain once I get better at playing it.

With this one, I was trying to do a more Andy Irvine continuous flow of play. Not like Andy Irvine, don't mistake me, just with his style in mind. Heh.



I'm really excited for my husband to get his GBOM prototype going. It sounds like it could be the best of both worlds.

I love the Archibald MacDonald of Keppoch -- I'll definitely be learning that one next.

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## M.Marmot

> Roisin Dubh... On a Baritone Resonator Mandola
> 
> and Crested Hens.


They're two great tunes - i listened to the hens first and was not too surprised to find that it was of French composition but the Roisin Dubh! 

Well done sir - that caught my breath.

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## John Kelly

Had a listen to your Soundcloud tunes, Monica.  You play with feeling and it is interesting to hear the air totally unaccompanied.  This is where the sustain of a longer scaled instrument comes into its own, I think.  Love the Waldzither sound - it really suits the tune.
I posted a version of MacDonald of Keppoch some time back and cheated in a different way - I added in a synthed cello to my mandolin sounds.  Here it is:

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## MonicaJacobson

Thanks John. I've got a long way to go, but at least I'm entertained, meanwhile! Great idea about the cello -- when Marty gets our newly acquired cello back together, maybe we can do something similar!

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## Bertram Henze

> I've actually started playing around with a Waldzither and I have great hopes for the extra string and the longer sustain once I get better at playing it.
> 
> With this one, I was trying to do a more Andy Irvine continuous flow of play. Not like Andy Irvine, don't mistake me, just with his style in mind. Heh.


Very good approach. Reminds me of Aut tace aut loquere meliora silencio (I will speak only when the words outperform silence).
Like a speaker should not fill the gaps between sentences with "Ehrrr...", "Like" and other such trash, a player should fill the silence with interesting things (Andy's recipe, and well interpreted here). 

If we must fill the silence at all,  that is. I have noticed that a speaker's silent pause of a few seconds can serve three purposes:
- to give him time to think of what to say next
- to give his audience time to digest what he just said
- to increase his audience's expectant attention (very important but often underestimated).
I wonder if short-sustain instruments could exploit those effects, too?

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## M.Marmot

In my opinion the use of silence and pauses could be advantageous - it can add emphasis and help push or imply movement forward, but, as with public speaking, the player would have to really be confident with their use.

Rather than trying to fill the space, or leaving last notes to dwindle for want of sustain, the melodic phrasing can be re-emphasized, bracketed, by pauses - or energised by coming in a little ahead of the beat... i'm not sure - really i'm just thinking out in text here.  

In a way, i think the use of pauses can help to draw out the mandolin's strengths - i am not too sure on this but would such techniques, the use of pauses and silences be common in classical mandolin composition?

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## DougC

> In my opinion the use of silence and pauses could be advantageous - it can add emphasis and help push or imply movement forward, but, as with public speaking, the player would have to really be confident with their use.
> 
> Rather than trying to fill the space, or leaving last notes to dwindle for want of sustain, the melodic phrasing can be re-emphasized, bracketed, by pauses - or energised by coming in a little ahead of the beat... i'm not sure - really i'm just thinking out in text here.  
> 
> In a way, i think the use of pauses can help to draw out the mandolin's strengths - i am not too sure on this but would such techniques, the use of pauses and silences be common in classical mandolin composition?


This technique is done in Baroque music. It works very well for harpsichord which has no sustain either. Harpsichord music was, and is full of long trills and ornaments that 'fill in' the longer notes. The other reason is that acoustic music in echo -y churches needs a pause between notes so the sound does not turn into 'mush'. 
 Mandolin can take advantage of the same properties and even taylor them to the sonic properties of mandolins.

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Bertram Henze, 

M.Marmot

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## M.Marmot

> This technique is done in Baroque music. It works very well for harpsichord which has no sustain either. Harpsichord music was, and is full of long trills and ornaments that 'fill in' the longer notes. *The other reason is that acoustic music in echo -y churches needs a pause between notes so the sound does not turn into 'mush'.* 
>  Mandolin can take advantage of the same properties and even taylor them to the sonic properties of mandolins.


Aha! Thats one of those things that make so much sense yet i never thought of it - of course a lot of those pieces would have been composed with a specific space in mind - and likewise a lot of churches were built to maximise their acoustic properties - its pretty neat to think of these classical composers factoring in the performance space into their compositions.

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## MonicaJacobson

Thank you, Bertram. I agree, and I think celtic music could be played a lot like David Grisman and Tony Rice play Mill Valley Waltz. Some tremolo, a lot of feeling, hammer-ons and slides, and an appealing simplicity. Marty did a solo recording of it, and I don't really miss the accompaniment, and it's definitely a slow tune. Not Celtic, of course, but it seems like you could apply some of the style to most slow celtic tunes. 

It makes me realize how important good tone is, and how difficult it is to achieve it.

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M.Marmot

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## DougC

> Thank you, Bertram. I agree, and I think celtic music could be played a lot like David Grisman and Tony Rice play Mill Valley Waltz. Some tremolo, a lot of feeling, hammer-ons and slides, and an appealing simplicity. Marty did a solo recording of it, and I don't really miss the accompaniment, and it's definitely a slow tune. Not Celtic, of course, but it seems like you could apply some of the style to most slow celtic tunes. 
> 
> It makes me realize how important good tone is, and how difficult it is to achieve it.


Marty does a real nice job there and he captures the bluegrass phrasing well. Irish music has it's own 'accent' (as I like to call it). And like language, music has it's own way of sounding 'right'. If you are learning a language, sounding fluent takes some close study and good listening.

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M.Marmot, 

MonicaJacobson

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## Bertram Henze

> It makes me realize how important good tone is, and how difficult it is to achieve it.


In a setting like that, indeed. Using the metaphor of speaking again: if you allow for silence between the sentences, the sentences had better have something important to say.

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MonicaJacobson

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## Dave Hanson

Of course The Dubliners recorded Roisin Dubh on 2 mandolins over 40 years ago, check it out on youtube, it's sublime.

Dave H

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## M.Marmot

> Irish music has it's own 'accent' (as I like to call it).


... and when played in a pub setting it often has a pronounced slur  :Coffee:

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## JCook

Very nice playing, Monica. I think slow airs work very well on the mandolin, despite the relatively short sustain of the instrument. Tremolo is a good technique for playing longer notes, but I'm not one who insists on it for longer notes always. I think a single note, dying away, can be very effective. I often will play a tune using single notes the first time through, then maybe use some tremolo the second time through,  but maybe not even on all the longer notes. It's an expressive tool, and you can use it to your own discretion. Tremolo does take a bit of practice to get it to be good, but it shouldn't be too hard to get there. Certain styles of music, though, like some of the Italian music I've heard for mandolin, seem to use it quite extensively.

Jack

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## MonicaJacobson

Thank you, Jack. I guess I should get to work on my tremolo! But I agree -- I like it best when it's used conservatively. 

Speaking of Italian sounding tremolo... I saw this somewhere else on the Cafe a month or so ago. You might have already seen it.

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## Dagger Gordon

I didn't really expect to see that clip in this thread, but the Melonious Quartet are - to my mind anyway - one of the greatest groups in the world.

Here is quite an old interview with their leader Patrick Vaillant. He has some very interesting observations on mandolins and music in general, plus some comments about Provencal and Occitaine cultures.  Worth reading.

Here is a quote which gives you an idea what he's trying to do.

" I felt when I started to play the mandolin that I had to create a way that was different from the existing ones : the mandolin I wanted to play was neither classical nor american. It was a third type mandolin, closer to my state of mind and musical culture... An alternative in many aspects : another technique, another style, another repertory, another scope of experience, another mood..."

http://www.mandozine.com/resources/CGOW/vaillant.php

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MonicaJacobson

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## Bertram Henze

The difficult part is whose turn it is to bang on the table, apparently...  :Grin:

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## M.Marmot

> The difficult part is whose turn it is to bang on the table, apparently...


If you think thats difficult part just wait until you try and find whose turn it is to buy the next round of drinks!

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## M.Marmot

Its funny that the Meloniousos have been posted here - for the last while i have been listening to Fado music as i thought that i could hear something in the way the portugese guitar is used to support songs that could prove useful to a few of the threads current in this section.

I'd hazard a guess that M. Vaillant might have dipped into that well to in his quest to fashion a more European mandolin sound.

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## DougC

I said earlier that a mandolin ensemble would be a great sound for Irish music. The Melonious quartet is just the sound I was thinking of. Now only if they would play Irish airs!  I remember Peter O. had a mandolin group. I wonder if they did some Irish stuff? Any other examples out there?

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## MonicaJacobson

Right, like the "Modern Mandolin Quartet" video you posted in "The State of Irish Traditional Playing" thread. That was some of the most impressive playing I've heard for a long time. I've never participated in an Irish session, and I suppose people go, not for the musicality as much (not that it's not good music), but for the tunes and the energy of playing together. It seems like a small group is definitely the way to go if you're interested in having a sound that is worth recording, at least. 

It seems like you could treat it almost like vocal parts and do three part harmony with mandolins.

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## DougC

> Right, like the "Modern Mandolin Quartet" video you posted in "The State of Irish Traditional Playing" thread. That was some of the most impressive playing I've heard for a long time. I've never participated in an Irish session, and I suppose people go, not for the musicality as much (not that it's not good music), but for the tunes and the energy of playing together. It seems like a small group is definitely the way to go if you're interested in having a sound that is worth recording, at least. 
> 
> It seems like you could treat it almost like vocal parts and do three part harmony with mandolins.


Here lies the crux of the matter. Irish music, traditional Irish sessiun tunes music, does not have harmony in the usual sense like vocal music as you said.  Musicians of all sorts have had huge disagreements about how to add to the melody.  My personal theory is that any addition to the melody should be similar to what an Irish pipe music would have. Drones, odd accents, odd slides in pitch.  There is a very specific regimen if you think on it.  The good news is that we in the mandolin family can mimic most of it.


Just found this old video and had to share it. Not Irish but look what sounds they pull from the instruments!

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## JCook

Great clips, loved them both! They really show the amazing versatility of the mandolin.

Jack

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## M.Marmot

Taímse Im’ Chodhladh



http://thesession.org/tunes/6944

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## M.Marmot

An Paistín Fionn

http://thesession.org/tunes/2387




How odd... but there be ideas there

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## M.Marmot

An Raibh Tú Ag An GCarraig




http://thesession.org/tunes/9695

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## M.Marmot

Sliabh Geal GCua




http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/sen...e_aidan_oneill

http://thesession.org/tunes/6628

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