# Technique, Theory, Playing Tips and Tricks > Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks >  finger tip~tips?

## mandomansuetude

Just wondering if any one out there has a suggestion for nursing sore finger tips...a balm ...an ointment ...a solution...anything that might ease the pain and promote some toughness.
                                                                Bill

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## pglasse

Well yes, actually. I use and recommend this: Climb On Bar

https://climbonp.accountsupport.com/...cgi?p_id=00002

Rub some on your fingertips after you're done playing. I keep the mini bar in the car and apply it on my way home from the gig (at stop lights) or at night before sleeping. The product was developed for rock climbers -- who, like mandolinists, want to keep their callouses but need them to be conditioned and strong. Anyway, the product is all natural and really works -- used by the top rock climbers in the world.

Disclosure: my sweetheart invented the product, so I am biased but I'm sure not the only musician (or rock climber) that swears by the stuff. Choro wizard Danilo Brito said it helped his finger tips too.

All the best,

Paul Glasse
Austin, Texas

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## mandozilla

I have excellent callouses. Never the less, right now they hurt like H**L because I jammed for 8 hours on Sunday. :Crying: 

Sorry, I have no tips (no pun intended) for you...I've always been a 'grin and bear it' kind of guy.  :Grin: 

I might give some of that 'Climb On Bar' stuff a try...does it soften the callouses? Deaden the pain? Or?... 

Can it be purchased at places like REI or Sport Chalet or ? 

DOH!  :Redface:  I didn't notice the link.  :Popcorn: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Bertram Henze

> ...I've always been a 'grin and bear it' kind of guy.


Same for me. If my calluses are not scarred and blackened, how do I know I've been to a session?

8 hours (OP) seem to be a lot, though. Snake oils will carry you only up to a point; go beyond that point, and you'll need a new hand like Luke Skywalker.

Bertram

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## greg_tsam

Dip your tips in rubbing alcohol, once a day, until they are hard.  Shortcut to building callouses.

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Mandonube

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## pglasse

> ...I might give some of that 'Climb On Bar' stuff a try...does it soften the callouses? Deaden the pain? Or?... 
> 
> ...Can it be purchased at places like REI or Sport Chalet or ? ...


There is a pain relief component to the Climb On Bar, helped along by the proprietary essential oils. It doesn't degrade the callouses like drugstore hand creams. It conditions the callouses so that, in my experience, you'll see a real reduction in flaking off of the outer layer (or layers) of callous. Again, it was developed originally for rock climbers -- who also need strong callouses. Acoustic bass player friends of mine love the stuff. I use it and it works for me.

Actually, REI does stock the Climb On bar, as do many serious climbing stores -- currently sold in 13 countries...no goofy parabens or other scary stuff. 

Paul Glasse
Austin, Texas

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## earthsave

Play more often for shorter periods of time.  If they really hurt, quit playing and give em a rest.

Similiar to physical exertion/exercise.  Gotta give them muscles/body parts a rest when you work them hard otherwise you could be headed for chronic pain.

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## mandomansuetude

Thanks guys...Paul  I'll check out"Climb on Bar"...also liked the rubbing alcohol finger dip idea..Greg...how long a soak? I guess drinking it afterwords would be  ill advised ..though it might ease the pain some. Bertram... I really don't want scarred and blackened fingertips...there must be a better way...sound advice earthsave  Thanks again guys! Bill

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## mandozilla

*Paul* 
Thanks for the info on the Climb On Bar...I'll order from REI in the morning.  :Grin: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Mike Snyder

This can become kinda like research into folk remedies. Stuff I've heard includes Absorbene Jr. (active ingredient is menthol), fingernail polish (crumbles and falls off rapidly), super glue (same), rubbing the tips on a hot frying pan dusted with flour (no kidding, I know a woman six-stringer who actually DOES this), various veteranary concoctions for toughening the pads of hunting dogs. I bought some of the latter, as I had a pheasant dog who could not tolerate Mexican sand burrs.
If you don't know about them, consider yourself lucky. When I put that stuff on my dog, my nose told me that the active ingredient was coal tar. I threw it away and bought dog boots. Thought I had the answer to sore fingers. Nope. Coal tar is a known carcinogen. The answer to soreness:
A good set up and lots and lots of playing time. At the Winfield festival 8 hrs is not unusual. If you wanted to, you could play 24. That doesn't leave much time for libations,barbecue, seeing the stages, or flirting with pretty fiddlers. Whip it like a rented mule, son!

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## Donnie Lang

When needed I use White iodine

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## Schlegel

I use _Dit Da Jow_. it's a chinese liniment that a lot of martial artists use on pressure or impact injuries. Lots of MA suppliers or traditional chinese medicine stores have it on-line. I frankly do not believe in most TCM "theory" or practice, but this stuff works.  Put it before and after a heavy session, and you will be sore for less time.

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## barney 59

I like the alcohol suggestion.  Pioneers and klondikers and such saved half of their alcohol for their feet! The other half they drank and late in winter for a treat they ate their boots--sort of like a spiked watermelon.

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## mandroid

Alum, I have been told by an older generation guitar player, is what she used to toughen up her left hand finger tips .

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## John Flynn

I used to get really pronounced, hard callouses on my finger tips from playing, so pronounced that they would sometimes catch on the E string! I would actually have to run an emery board over them occasionally to smooth them out. I also used to get a lot of fret wear. I play now just as much as I did then, but I no longer get the pronounced callouses or as much fret wear. I came to realize that I was using too much hand tension, too much pressure on the strings. I started a concerted effort to lighten up and it has paid off. Now my callouses are there, but they are pretty soft, yet playing even for long times doesn't bother me.

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## mandomansuetude

Many interesting posts...I took the rubbing alcohol (ethyl 70%)approach...dipping the fingers in  .. for about a 3 minute soak ..twice a day. although it's only been about a week and a half ..I can report that my finger tips are much improved....I've only been playing for 6 mos. but because I'm retired ..I've been putting in 3 to 6 hours a day..and my fingers were getting raw...the alcohol has done something ,,thats for sure ..tips are harder ...soreness is gone and they feel firm and the strings don't seem to cut in as much...I'm very pleased with the result. Thanks to everyone who offered help.  Wm.

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## Rhinestone

I've been playing fretted instruments for around 45 years and all I ever did was play a lot and keep the fingertips smooth with an emory board.
This seems like a good place to tell this story. A friend of mine actually witnessed this. The late great blues/rock guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughn used to use heavy strings and a high action on his Strat so his fingertips were often in pretty rough shape. One night before a show after gluing and re-gluing the callous on his ring finger with super glue,it simply sloughed off and was unsavable - leaving his fingertip exposed down to the raw quick. So he took off his cowboy boot and sock in the dressing room and with a razor blade he cut a piece of callous off the heel of his foot and after shaping it with the razor blade,super glued it into place on his fingertip. After a little more manicuring and detailing with an emory board,a shot of bourbon and a bandaid on his foot,he was ready to take the stage. Apparently he had done this before.

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## mandozilla

DANG!  :Disbelief:  Now that's what I call Hard Core!  :Cool:  If my callouses ever fell (sloughed) off, I might use some of that liquid bandage stuff...I think it's called "New Skin" but I don't think I do the self-surgury thing...ouch!  :Grin: ...BTW, I miss Stevie Ray.  :Crying: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## gregjones

You gotta remember Stevie Ray was from Texas.

You know, where they use fresh cow patties for chapped lips.  No medical reason--it just stops 'ya from lickin' 'em.

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## Ken Olmstead

My callouses are virtually invisable, but respectable non the less. However, If I cut my left index finger nail too short, it is like I lose some sort of flesh support and let the pain begin! Stange, after all these years and I am still going through growing pains!

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## Tobin

> I might give some of that 'Climb On Bar' stuff a try...does it soften the callouses? Deaden the pain? Or?...


After reading this thread a couple of weeks ago, I ordered the mini-bar (.5 oz).  I've been using it for about a week now.  I just figured I'd post my observations.

Before using it, my calluses were hard and dry, and would peel off over time as new skin grew from underneath (and I admit, I tend to peel the skin off; it's almost as much fun as peeling off scabs from recent cuts).  I could tap my fingertips on a table top and it sounded like I was using my fingernails because my calluses were so hard and dry.  

After using Climb On for a few days, I noticed my calluses getting softer.  They still provide protection from the strings, so the thick padding is still there.  But they are more pliable, for lack of a better word.  But most importantly, as new skin grows from underneath, the old skin doesn't flake and peel.  My fingertips *almost* look like a normal person's fingertips again!

I've been using it 3-4 times a day, or whenever I feel like they're drying out.  And it really seems to be working.  I love the stuff!

The mini bar cost me $5.75 but the shipping pretty much doubled the cost.  I didn't care for that much, but hey, it was more convenient than driving to a store and buying it.  They also sent me a small trial-size can of Climb On cream.

All in all, I think this is good stuff.  I don't think you'd want to over-use it because it could make your calluses too soft to offer the protection you need while playing.  But when used to simply maintain calluses, it's great.

(And no, I'm not affiliated with them, heh.)

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## onassis

Flatwound strings. The decrease in  soreness is really remarkable.

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## pglasse

Tobin,

I'm glad you tried the Climb On bar. I've been using Climb On for about a year and a half now. Your positive experience is identical to mine. The product really works -- conditions my existing callouses so they stay on without cracking or peeling -- feels good too.

Regarding your other concern:




> All in all, I think this is good stuff.  I don't think you'd want to over-use it because it could make your calluses too soft to offer the protection you need while playing.


Frankly, this is not a risk. Climb On is just feeding your own skin, not degrading your callouses like regular hand creams. Again, the top competitive rock climbers in the world rely on Climb On on to repair and maintain the callouses they need for what they do. Compared to what climbers do to their hands a bit of mandolin playing is minor stuff.

All the best,

Paul Glasse
Austin, Texas

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## Nox

Hi guys,
i have started playng about a month ago. I already developed callouses on my fingertips. I don't feel any pain, but i'm worried by the fact that on the fingertips  i can see the strings marks, i mean, i have the callous and on it there is the shape of the string (hope this make sense).
My question is, it's normal? or i should i have only callouses without the string marks? Maybe i press too much with my fingers on the strings?

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## mandozilla

Hey Nox (oxides of nitrogen?)!

My callouses are thick as mulehide but whenever I play for a long time...more than an hour, I get the string grooves in those tough callouses...it's 'Normal' IMHO...I guess maybe I grip too tight...I dunno...maybe we both need to lighten up a bit?  :Laughing: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Bertram Henze

> Hi guys,
> i have started playng about a month ago. I already developed callouses on my fingertips. I don't feel any pain, but i'm worried by the fact that on the fingertips  i can see the strings marks, i mean, i have the callous and on it there is the shape of the string (hope this make sense).
> My question is, it's normal? or i should i have only callouses without the string marks? Maybe i press too much with my fingers on the strings?


Like mandozilla said, this is normal. Callouses are not as elastic as normal skin, it takes much longer for them to regain their original shape after playing.

Bertram

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## Chris Keth

WHen I started playing guitar I had the same problem. Nothing really made them feel better but I put rubbing alcohol on my fingertips twice daily and it helps the callouses develop faster and harder.

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## Nox

OK guys, thanks for the reply.
@PanaDP
I don't have any pain, the only problem for me is that the calllous doesn't strech, so on each fingertips i have two carved oblique strings.

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## Chris Keth

> OK guys, thanks for the reply.
> @PanaDP
> I don't have any pain, the only problem for me is that the calllous doesn't strech, so on each fingertips i have two carved oblique strings.


Permanently or for a little bit after you play?

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## Nox

> Permanently or for a little bit after you play?


Permanently  :Frown: 
I think that that callous was not still very hard, and pushing on the strings with a semi-hard callous caused theese marks. I have tried rubbing the fingertips on a solid surface, masaging it, but nothing, now the callous is hard and has that shape  :Frown:

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## Mike Bunting

Perhaps you are sqeezing too hard.

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## dochardee

I had to quit playing for a couple months due to an injury and lost my calluses. Normally I would only be able to play for 30-45 minutes a day until I built the calluses up again. I got some Rock-Tips, a superglue that you brush on, and can play as long as I want to without pain. Great product that performs as advertised.

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## Peggy Cabe

> Well yes, actually. I use and recommend this: Climb On Bar
> 
> https://climbonp.accountsupport.com/...cgi?p_id=00002
> 
> Rub some on your fingertips after you're done playing. I keep the mini bar in the car and apply it on my way home from the gig (at stop lights) or at night before sleeping. The product was developed for rock climbers -- who, like mandolinists, want to keep their callouses but need them to be conditioned and strong. Anyway, the product is all natural and really works -- used by the top rock climbers in the world.
> 
> Disclosure: my sweetheart invented the product, so I am biased but I'm sure not the only musician (or rock climber) that swears by the stuff. Choro wizard Danilo Brito said it helped his finger tips too.
> 
> All the best,
> ...


Thanks for the info! Just ordered some through Amazon. I've got the newbie habit of pressing too hard, play 4 hour gigs each week at a hospital plus practice, and Florida winters are very dry. Will also try the rubbing alky, but I still won't be able to pick up a dime with my left hand will I?

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## Kip Carter

As far as building callous I think based on what I've experienced and read that you want to avoid anything that moisturizes your finger tips.  Most callous building concepts involve using something that drys the skin. So promotion of moisture while it will not remove the built up skin it will soften it.  

I keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol on my desk and do a brief rub down of my left finger tips periodicity to make sure that there isn't any collection of oils building up and my callous is building nicely.  As for the pain you're experiencing... Sorry, this too shall pass.
Kip...

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## greg_tsam

When I used the rubbing alcohol I just put some in the cap and dipped each tip for a sec or two then let them air dry.  Repeat.  Did that once or twice a day for a week and didn't need it after that.  I've been played constantly for years now.   :Mandosmiley: 

After 4 hours of playing my tips feel like I've been playing but they don't hurt.  Aspercreme or any of those other cremes would most likely help.  I like the feeling though.   :Smile:   I have square tips.

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## greg_tsam

> You gotta remember Stevie Ray was from Texas.
> 
> You know, where they use fresh cow patties for chapped lips.  No medical reason--it just stops 'ya from lickin' 'em.


Having grown up in a East Texas cow town of 250 people and about 100,000 cows on a small ranch, we used dry cow patties for frisbees and chunking them out each other while laughing an evil and joyful laugh of youthful mischievousness.  :Whistling:

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## Kip Carter

> Having grown up in a East Texas cow town of 250 people and about 100,000 cows on a small ranch, we used dry cow patties for frisbees and chunking them out each other while laughing an evil and joyful laugh of youthful mischievousness.


And when questioned about the practice by strangers you likely responded "Hurts but its funnnnnnn!"  Yes????
Kip...

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## JeffD

I love this stuff: http://guitar-hands.com/  I discovered it at Clifftop this last year.

The video is cheesy, but the product is real good. Just a touch on each finger tip (fretting hand only of course) about five minutes before playing. If its a festival situation, you only need to use it once, just before the first time you pick up the instrument for the day.

I use it regularly. No Financial Interest, just something I use and like. I keep it in my gig bag.

Try not to get it on your picking hand fingers because it seems to last long and makes it hard to grip the pick.

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## Kip Carter

Interesting... so it does what? numb the fingers? build callous? ???

Kip...

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## JeffD

Seems to keep the callouses hard, first of all, and while it doesn't really numb the fingers, you don't feel the strings as much. Also its slick-ish, and slide stuff are easier.

One thing I notice though, is this. If I put it on just after washing up, I can immediately start playing. For example, say I come back from a morning of fishing (my other passion) just in time to play with a fiddler who is on the front porch waiting for me. Well I gotta get cleaned up, and usually that softens my fingers enough that I its uncomfortable to play right away. Fingers got to dry, and the natural oils or whatever got washed off need be restored. A dab of this stuff and I am ready to go in a few minutes. Without it seems to take half an hour or more.

I know its not so likely, but it happened and I thought I should report it.

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## Rodney Riley

> Having grown up in a East Texas cow town of 250 people and about 100,000 cows on a small ranch, we used dry cow patties for frisbees and chunking them out each other while laughing an evil and joyful laugh of youthful mischievousness.


A nieghborhood boy and I got to throwing chips at each other. He started it laughing like crazy. 20 minutes or so later I finished it with one that wasn't dry in the middle.  :Smile:  Me laughing like crazy, him crying to his mom that was visiting with my mom. Cool Lady, she laughed as harder than me. Telling him if didn't like what happened he shouldn't have been playin the game.  :Laughing:  

What's kind of neat is the cows are in the city limits. City put it in the books banning farm animals inside the city limits. But since dad had them before the ban, he grandfathered in. As long as he continually has cows on his 5 acres he can keep them. Yep, he still has 5 or 6 he's feeding.  :Smile:  No mando content but thanks for the smile.

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## greg_tsam

> And when questioned about the practice by strangers you likely responded "Hurts but its funnnnnnn!"  Yes????
> Kip...


Strangers?  You mean city slickers?  We used our "secret weapons" on them.  See below for an explanation.




> ... with one that wasn't dry in the middle.  Me laughing like crazy, him crying to his mom...


There was nothing more satisfying than seeing those kids get their clean clothes dirty and whine about it except knowing that we were the ones that got 'em that way.  We were tough little kids that could take it and dish it out.

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## Ivan Kelsall

From *Bertram* - ".....scarred and blackened,......". Well,that's at least 2 of us Bertram. I get grooves like train tracks when i've been playing for a few hours,but after playing banjo for so many years,my finger-tip skin,whilst not calloused, was pretty thick to begin with.The Mandolin strings simply added the 'crust',
                                                                           Ivan

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## Werner Jaekel

I have strong callouses with "rails", two deep permanent grooves from the strings. Sometimes strings get hooked and the fingertips go much further down to the board.   Right now, after playing for hours, they hurt badly. Do you accept these string grooves or would you do something about it ? And what sort of remedy would you recommend ?

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## greg_tsam

My "rails" go away shortly (<30mins) after playing even if it's been 4 hours.  Sometimes I'll massage them to loosen 'em up and get the blood flowing, squeeze the fingertips, roll them and file them if they start to crack.  Definitely.

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## onassis

Strangely, I've noticed that the "rails" seem to hang around forever now. Like, 24 hours or more. Not really playing a ton more than ever before, so I'm not really sure why that is.

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## JeffD

Nobody said we would get away from the mandolin unscathed.

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## Werner Jaekel

JeffD
guess you are right. Directly after posting this I took up my mandolin again and continued.  :Smile: 

greg_tsam, onassis
I do this massaging, and it helps. My rails are permanent, even if I havn't played for a full day.  

I thought of building more and even callouses by running the tips over fine grade sandpaper occasionally.

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## Bertram Henze

Those 'rails' are a typical feature of phase 1 callus. Play on and look forward to phase 2 callus (after 1 or 2 years) - no more disfigurement and blackness, no more pain (in fact, no more feeling at all)...

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## Barry Wilson

I went and played bass a short while ago. hadn't touched it in a while. turns out I use the front of the finger more than mandolin and my fingers actually got sore. to keep the calous, you have to play and practice whatever instruments... I'm going to try the alcohol some. now that I am not detailing cars anymore, I don't use harsh chemicals.

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## Bertram Henze

> I'm going to try the alcohol some. now that I am not detailing cars anymore...


Don't drink and drive  :Cool:  :Grin:

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## hokelore

I remember being told once that tea toughens the skin. Tea contains tannin, and supposedly soaking your fingertips in tea will tan then like leather. I've dipped my fingers in tea, but I couldn't tell if that helped or not, or if it required a longer soaking time.

Another thing I heard to try came from a list for Filipino martial arts, and that is using urine to toughen skin. I haven't tried that, or at least I won't admit to it.

Tim

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## greg_tsam

Those crazy Filipinos.

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## Calv

> I used to get really pronounced, hard callouses on my finger tips from playing, so pronounced that they would sometimes catch on the E string! I would actually have to run an emery board over them occasionally to smooth them out. I also used to get a lot of fret wear. I play now just as much as I did then, but I no longer get the pronounced callouses or as much fret wear. I came to realize that I was using too much hand tension, too much pressure on the strings. I started a concerted effort to lighten up and it has paid off. Now my callouses are there, but they are pretty soft, yet playing even for long times doesn't bother me.


This is exactly the position i found myself in.....after a year it is really frustrating that i am still getting them, but i have concentrated on less pressure and it seems to be helping.

Calv.

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## Bertram Henze

> I remember being told once that tea toughens the skin. Tea contains tannin, and supposedly soaking your fingertips in tea will tan then like leather. I've dipped my fingers in tea, but I couldn't tell if that helped or not, or if it required a longer soaking time.


I am drinking tea for 30+ years now. Wonder what the inside of my throat must be like....




> Another thing I heard to try came from a list for Filipino martial arts, and that is using urine to toughen skin.


Contravenes the proven fact that urine softenes leather (e.g. in boots). It might be different, of course, if you drink tea first  :Laughing:

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## greg_tsam

If urine toughen skin wouldn't we all be walking around kinda funny, men?

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## Mike Bunting

Climb-on is great, I use it all the time, both for callus's and general conditioning in my dry climate.

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## Bertram Henze

> If urine toughen skin wouldn't we all be walking around kinda funny, men?


Hadn't thought of that - the mere existence of blue pills busts the myth.

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## Mandonube

> Dip your tips in rubbing alcohol, once a day, until they are hard.  Shortcut to building callouses.


Great tip, greg_tsam! Mine kept peeling until I started doing this. Of course, this is probably because I was not willing to have a break for a day or two and let them heal... But my fingertips look almost normal again  :Smile: Yay!

Jody

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## jazzman13

I overheard a classical mando player saying that if you rub your fingers on your hair/scalp just above your ear for a few seconds, the natural oils in your hair will build up on your fingertips and moisturise the callous - making it tougher and also making it last longer before it flakes off... 
It also makes your fingers glide along the strings nicely.

Admittedly, I haven't really tried it that much. Interesting though...

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## Bertram Henze

> the natural oils in your hair


here's the energy crisis solution we've been waiting for. Now where do I have my fracking shampoo...

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## Dobes2TBK

Hand quilters would use turpentine instead of the rubbin alcohol.  There was an actual product I remember hearing about umpteen years ago for helping build that quilter's callous, but I'll be darned if I can remember what it was.

ok, it *was* the New-Skin.

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## sbellina

I have to scrub my hands thoroughly several time a day for work.  Additionally, my fingers start flaking in the fall as the weather turns cooler.  My instructor told me about derma gear and it has fixed the callus and flaking issues.

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## bmac

i don't think there is any majic cure for callouses except playing consistantly, but not too much... You of course need good callouses and they will come with effort. but as suggesed above, learning to fret with only enough pressure but not too much will do much to help.... However by the time you are playing well enough to lighten up on the fretting you already have good callouses.

Callouses are God's way of asking you "Do you really want to play mandolin?"

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## bmac

i don't think there is any majic cure for callouses except playing consistantly, but not too much... You of course need good callouses and they will come with effort. but as suggesed above, learning to fret with only enough pressure but not too much will do much to help.... However by the time you are playing well enough to lighten up on the fretting you already have good callouses.

Sore finger tips are God's way of asking you "Do you really want to play mandolin?"

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## pimsbigboy

I work at a stone and tile company moving slabs of rock around all day.  It's like sanding your hands all day long. I found this stuff at the local guitar shop and it works like a charm.  They make this stuff in my home town not sure how big they are but it works.  http://www.dermagear.com

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## pglasse

I'm posted here before that I use and love the climbOn bar for treating, soothing, repairing and conditioning the callouses on my fretting fingers.

Some of you have posted (and told me) that the climbOn Bar works for them too.

I want to pass along to my fellow mandolinists that the manufacturer is having a 30% off sale on everything on their web site until 1/31/16 using Coupon Code: NewYear

The link for the climbOn Bar is here.

The link for the crossFIXE Tube is here.This is a slightly softer formulation, in a compostable tube, with a bit of pain relief in the formula.

From either of these links you can get to the main web site where right now, again, everything is 30% off with the code.

Disclaimer: my wife invented all of these products, so I'm probably biased. That said, I use these products and believe in them. This is food-grade skin-repair, used by the top rock climbers in the world (who need their callouses too) -- safe for you, children, animals, the environment. This started as a home-grown business and now the products are distributed in 37 countries, because they work and people have spread the word.

Thanks for listening.

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