# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  I told you so!  Jackson is after those IBMA awards!

## f5loar

The News broke today:  Alan Jackson's new Bluegrass band to open MerleFest this year. Next will come RedFox, Bean Blossom, Summersville, WVA, Rosine, Denton.
So for those you who said it was a one off at the Station Inn , I knew better.  He has recorded an all Bluegrass CD.  He is now touring with a Bluegrass Band.  Next comes the wins in guitar,singer,band, and the big entertainer of the year 2014 at IBMA in Raleigh next Sept.  He's got almost a full year to make it known he is in it to win it.  Steve Martin did it last year, now it's Jackson's turn. Has anyone forgotten Bruce Hornesby big Grammy Bluegrass win?  Anybody but those that make a living at Bluegrass music.
I bet the next announcement for MerleFest is for Janie Frickie's new bluegrass tour to be included.  Then will come senior Gibb brother Barry out on his "BeeGees do Monroe" tour.  Skaggs has already got that one started.

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bjewell, 

DataNick, 

shawnbrock, 

William Smith

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## mandopete

You're kidding, right?

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## Timmando

I'm expecting to see the Rolling Stones do The Lester Flatt Remembrance Tour eventually the way things are going! It was good to meet you at IBMA f5loar. I thought I would see you again someplace, maybe learn a bit from you. Sorry I missed you at your gig. So much going on I got lost in it all. I was in search of an A-style when we met, and I think you mentioned a 50's Gibson A, considering I wanted a wider neck. I was looking, couldn't find one there,  but I think I got one real close to what I wanted in the KM950. Maybe next year we can pick some.

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## Dale Ludewig

Pray tell, is there twerking involved in all this?

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## f5loar

> You're kidding, right?


 Nope, I awoke this morning with the email direct from MerleFest.org. You can check it out yourself.

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## f5loar

> I'm expecting to see the Rolling Stones do The Lester Flatt Remembrance Tour eventually the way things are going! It was good to meet you at IBMA f5loar. I thought I would see you again someplace, maybe learn a bit from you. Sorry I missed you at your gig. So much going on I got lost in it all. I was in search of an A-style when we met, and I think you mentioned a 50's Gibson A, considering I wanted a wider neck. I was looking, couldn't find one there,  but I think I got one real close to what I wanted in the KM950. Maybe next year we can pick some.


  Saga had some killer Kentucky mandolins there.  The only one I didn't like was the most expensive, the Monroe model.  The others were all top flight Fs and As.  It is hard to find someone among 20,000 people in one area.  Lots going on in Raleigh.  I expect next year to be even bigger.

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## Russ Jordan

Why shouldn't Alan Jackson be booked at MerleFest?   Makes good sense to me, and I would not be surprised if Merlefest has tried to book him before. I would not necessarily think that means appearances at all the bluegrass festivals Tom mentioned, though.

Not sure about IBMA awards, but would not be surprised to see a bluegrass grammy for Alan Jackson.

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## Timbofood

Ahh, marketing, the all American way!
Thanks Tom, you are more tuned in than the average guy!
Good for you!

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## Bradley

Sad to see the drifting of Bluegrass.....Where will it be in 20 years. Alan Jackson is a GREAT GREAT GREAT Country singer
and I think there is no one any better, but who are we kidding. The country scene is way to Rocky for Alan we know that, but what happens when Bluegrass is too "Hollywood or too Nashville", do we burn our Monroe and Stanley Brothers records?   

I just hope that we aren't trading our Bluegrass souls for a deal with the Devil at the Crossroad near Music Row..............

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## Russ Jordan

No need to worry--I bet this will be the only bluegrass album AJ makes.  He makes too much $ with his country gigs.

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## f5loar

Jackson has the $$$ to take this bluegrass train as far as he wants to or stop it when he feels like it. I say watch him roll all the way to Raleigh next year.

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DataNick, 

Timbofood

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## Charles E.

Do you know who the band line up is? I guess he could pick and choose the best.

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## padawan

Let us not forget that Alan Jackson has somewhere in the close proximity of a _BAJILLION_ fans.  He'll probably bring bluegrass into the homes of a *huge* number of people who wouldn't normally listen to it. 

 We could be looking at the "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" effect all over again and end up with a big influx of new BG fans.  You'd be hard pressed to pick a person more likely to succeed at bringing in new blood.

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Perry Babasin

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## William Smith

All we can do is not buy Alans "Bluegrass???" cd. don't contribute to it. Save the grammy for the REAL+TRUE bluegrass players! I could see it if a country star got their start in bluegrass and wanted to go back to their roots later in life because once the grass is in your blood its like a bad disease it don't go away, it may hibernate but its always there! Plus they paid their dues with talent and pretty much no pay! Whats next big name actors who want to go bluegrass and rob real pickers out of the prizes?? Maybe my thought process is whacked!!!!

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## mandopete

> I say watch him roll all the way to Raleigh next year.


You're on - $5 says it will never happen.

 :Smile:

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## roysboy

> Let us not forget that Alan Jackson has somewhere in the close proximity of a _BAJILLION_ fans.  He'll probably bring bluegrass into the homes of a *huge* number of people who wouldn't normally listen to it. 
> We could be looking at the "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" effect all over again and end up with a big influx of new BG fans.  You'd be hard pressed to pick a person more likely to succeed at bringing in new blood.



Couldn't agree more with the quote above . I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding why there is so much animosity here about Alan Jackson singing bluegrass . With all due respect to the Cafe , it borders on a snobbery of sorts doesn't it ? He's putting a GREAT bunch of bluegrass pickers to work recording and touring with him while showcasing their amazing talents , he's raising the general public's awareness of the genre and he's doing it in a bluegrass arena ....not a hockey arena . If his music makes people smile , sing along and appreciate the power of a song , a solo , harmonies ....isn't THAT the ultimate goal all of us , as players and singers , shoot for when entertaining ? We don't have to LIKE AJ's interpretation of the genre -I'm sure we all know bluegrass bands we aren't all that fond of for whatever reasons - but it seems to me its a win-win for AJ AND the genre and its current and prospective followers.

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Alan Lackey, 

lorrainehornig, 

Mandosummers, 

MANNDOLINS, 

Mark Wilson, 

padawan

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## f5loar

Was going to a gig tonight listening to SiriusXM Bluegrass Junction and wouldn't you know it here comes Alan's new hit bluegrass song "Blue Ridge Mountain Song" on it.  And on the way back another song from Jackson.  He's already bought radio play time for his bluegrass CD on SiriusXM.  Just another cog in the wheel of the Jackson Bluegrass Express rolling into Raleigh 2014.  Look for Jackson to grace the cover of BU in a few months, then watch his bluegrass songs rise up the charts in BU. This train cannot be stopped. Here is the email sent to me from MerleFest this morning:  ""We are very pleased that Alan Jackson will be joining us for MerleFest 2014. With his new bluegrass album, he will be sure to please both the diehard country and bluegrass fans at MerleFest," says Ted Hagaman, festival director. "His accomplishments in the music industry are huge and have left their mark on country music history. Jackson's songs are timeless and will be recognizable to the MerleFest crowds. We know his performance on Thursday night will offer a MerleFest moment as he focuses his set toward his bluegrass project. It is sure to kick off a very successful festival in April." Alan Jackson is one of the most successful and respected singer-songwriters in music. He is in the elite company of Paul McCartney and John Lennon among songwriters who have written more than 20 songs that they have recorded and taken to the top of the charts. Jackson has sold nearly 60 million albums worldwide, topped the country singles charts 35 times, and scored more than 50 Top 10 hits. He has written or co-written 24 of his 35 No. 1 hit singles. Jackson is an 18-time ACM Award winner, a 16-time CMA Award recipient, and a two-time Grammy-winning artist whose songwriting has earned him the prestigious ASCAP Founders Award and an induction into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame as a 2011 Songwriter/Artist inductee. Jackson's The Bluegrass Album, released September 24 on ACR (Alan's Country Records)/EMI Records Nashville and produced by Keith Stegall and Jackson's nephew, Adam Wright, has garnered rave reviews in its first week of release. The new album boasts the talents of such bluegrass greats as Sammy Shelor (banjo), Adam Steffey (mandolin), Tim Crouch (fiddle), Tim Dishman (bass), Rob Ickes (dobro) and Ronnie Bowman and Don Rigsby (vocals) and Scott Coney (acoustic guitar), also a member of Jackson's touring band."  
It would be hard not to go to the top awards with that band behind you.  Heck I could put Ronnie Stoneman singing in that band and she would win at IBMA.   Let's hope MerleFest does not "jump" in and book David Lee Roth this year!  For those of you who missed this epic performance of the Bluegrass version of "Jump" on David Letterman here is another version for your viewing pleasure.  Be sure and see the dancing at the end:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Tx4FyPf7s

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DataNick

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## DataNick

f5loar,

Can I please die now!

I know everybody has a right to self expression, but good night!

And the way the 2 hostesses say "Bluegrass!"...please gag me with the proverbial spoon; enough already!

If he really wants to play bluegrass then, okaaaay, but I don't really think so. I'd jam with him in the context of a real bluegrass jam, but this seems waaaay over the top! Somewhere I hear Mr. Monroe saying "What's he trying to do up there?"

Goodnite! Going to take my medication and get comfortably numb...

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## M.Marmot

> Was going to a gig tonight listening to SiriusXM Bluegrass Junction and wouldn't you know it here comes Alan's new hit bluegrass song "Blue Ridge Mountain Song" on it.  And on the way back another song from Jackson.  He's already bought radio play time for his bluegrass CD on SiriusXM.  Just another cog in the wheel of the Jackson Bluegrass Express rolling into Raleigh 2014.  Look for Jackson to grace the cover of BU in a few months, then watch his bluegrass songs rise up the charts in BU. This train cannot be stopped. Here is the email sent to me from MerleFest this morning:  ""We are very pleased that Alan Jackson will be joining us for MerleFest 2014. With his new bluegrass album, he will be sure to please both the diehard country and bluegrass fans at MerleFest," says Ted Hagaman, festival director. "His accomplishments in the music industry are huge and have left their mark on country music history. Jackson's songs are timeless and will be recognizable to the MerleFest crowds. We know his performance on Thursday night will offer a MerleFest moment as he focuses his set toward his bluegrass project. It is sure to kick off a very successful festival in April." Alan Jackson is one of the most successful and respected singer-songwriters in music. He is in the elite company of Paul McCartney and John Lennon among songwriters who have written more than 20 songs that they have recorded and taken to the top of the charts. Jackson has sold nearly 60 million albums worldwide, topped the country singles charts 35 times, and scored more than 50 Top 10 hits. He has written or co-written 24 of his 35 No. 1 hit singles. Jackson is an 18-time ACM Award winner, a 16-time CMA Award recipient, and a two-time Grammy-winning artist whose songwriting has earned him the prestigious ASCAP Founders Award and an induction into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame as a 2011 Songwriter/Artist inductee. Jackson's The Bluegrass Album, released September 24 on ACR (Alan's Country Records)/EMI Records Nashville and produced by Keith Stegall and Jackson's nephew, Adam Wright, has garnered rave reviews in its first week of release. The new album boasts the talents of such bluegrass greats as Sammy Shelor (banjo), Adam Steffey (mandolin), Tim Crouch (fiddle), Tim Dishman (bass), Rob Ickes (dobro) and Ronnie Bowman and Don Rigsby (vocals) and Scott Coney (acoustic guitar), also a member of Jackson's touring band."  
> It would be hard not to go to the top awards with that band behind you.  Heck I could put Ronnie Stoneman singing in that band and she would win at IBMA.   Let's hope MerleFest does not "jump" in and book David Lee Roth this year!  For those of you who missed this epic performance of the Bluegrass version of "Jump" on David Letterman here is another version for your viewing pleasure.  Be sure and see the dancing at the end:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Tx4FyPf7s


All of that and i still would never have heard of Alan Jackson if it was not for these threads complaining about his incursion on rather exclusive sward of bluegrass.

and what a rather odd exclusion policy - the door is open to one and all - except, of course, for those folks who have already proven themselves talented musicians elsewhere.

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padawan

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## padawan

Jackson's roots aren't in bluegrass, they are in gospel ...so he's _certainly_ the kind of person we need to keep out of bluegrass.  (Yes, that's sarcasm)

 Why the hatred guys?  Jackson paid his dues writing and singing in his spare time while working at Wal-Mart. If not for his wife bumping into Glen Campbell in an airport and handing him a demo tape A.J. might *still* be driving a forklift.  (I looked it up)

 I don't hate the guy for wanting to play something different after 20 some odd years of the same thing day after day.  For what it's worth, that's the same reason I bought a mandolin.

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pickloser, 

Tobin

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## P Josey

I'm another who likes seeing Jackson in bluegrass. Look at Rhonda Vincent, Patty Loveless, Ricky Scaggs, Marty Stewart.....and let's not forget Dixie and Tom T Hall, all with a past steeped in country music. I grew up with classic country and bluegrass and really enjoyed the country till the past number of years when it turned to what they call country today. Now I focus on bluegrass mainly. I have a lot of friends who were diehard country fans and have turned to bluegrass because there is no more country as we knew it. The same may apply to Alan Jackson.  We as players and fans have the option to turn to bluegrass for a music outlet so why not afford Jackson and others the same option. Jackson is full of creativity and can (and probably will) write some classic bluegrass tunes. Now, back to the shop where I'm working on my new design for a wawa petal for electric banjo and mandolin. :Smile:  (Just joking)

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## AlanN

I am unfamiliar with Alan Jackson, as I don't listen to today's country music. If he wants to go down the the grass highway, it's a big enough road to handle his caravan. Just hope he can 'jump' a little better than DLR (not really a fair comparison...)

Speaking of which, learned at IBMA that David Parmley is now the Transportation Manager for Rascal Flatts, handling the band's touring vehicle fleet..."I'll Be On That Good Road Someday..."

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## Tobin

> Jackson's roots aren't in bluegrass, they are in gospel ...so he's _certainly_ the kind of person we need to keep out of bluegrass.  (Yes, that's sarcasm)
> 
>  Why the hatred guys?  Jackson paid his dues writing and singing in his spare time while working at Wal-Mart. If not for his wife bumping into Glen Campbell in an airport and handing him a demo tape A.J. might *still* be driving a forklift.  (I looked it up)
> 
>  I don't hate the guy for wanting to play something different after 20 some odd years of the same thing day after day.  For what it's worth, that's the same reason I bought a mandolin.


That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it.  Alan Jackson is not the prototypical modern country music star.  It seems that many of them are hand-picked at a young age and preened to be pop sensations, mostly for their looks and not for their talent.  But Alan Jackson comes from more honest roots and has proven himself.  I've always thought he didn't fit the modern C&W mold.

I don't understand why folks would automatically reject his crossing over into bluegrass without even giving him a chance.  OK, it would be one thing if he drags a bunch of C&W style garbage into bluegrass.  But if he makes an honest effort to bring his talent to the bluegrass scene because it calls to him, and he wants to stay true to the bluegrass sound and spirit?  Why would anyone fault him for that?  Is there some sort of unwritten rule that once you're successful in one genre, you are not allowed to horn in on others?  Well, maybe there is.  Chris Thile is certainly experiencing that with some of the negativity surrounding his Bach project.  (Sorry for "polluting" this thread with the CT reference, but I see many parallels there.)

As for me, I'll take a wait-and-see approach.  I want to hear Alan Jackson's bluegrass works and see how he approaches it before getting all judgy-judgy about it.  I would hope that with the group he's putting together (including Adam Steffey!), he will get off on the right foot.  Unfortunately, because he's already rich and famous, no matter how he approaches it, lots of people will accuse him of trying to grandstand and buy his way into a bunch of awards.

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## padawan

Taken from Alan Jackson’s website:

  They say that timing’s everything in bluegrass music. If that’s so, Alan Jackson’s is just right. “I probably started thinking about the bluegrass album sometime in the mid-‘90s,” the iconic country singer and songwriter explains. “But O Brother, Where Art Thou? came along, a couple of other country artists were doing some bluegrass stuff, and I didn’t want to seem like I was jumping on the bandwagon. Then, when Alison Krauss and I started working together, we ended up going in a different direction—it was a very cool album, and I’m proud of it. I think things happen when they’re supposed to, though, and when I finally got to it this winter, it just seemed like the right time in my life, in my head—in everything.”

 You can read the rest of it here: http://www.alanjackson.com/about.html

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## Steve Ostrander

Well, he's got some heavy hitters in his band.

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## dang

> Alan Jackson is one of the most successful and respected singer-songwriters in music. He is in the elite company of Paul McCartney and John Lennon among songwriters who have written more than 20 songs that they have recorded and taken to the top of the charts. Jackson has sold nearly 60 million albums worldwide, topped the country singles charts 35 times, and scored more than 50 Top 10 hits. He has written or co-written 24 of his 35 No. 1 hit singles. Jackson is an 18-time ACM Award winner, a 16-time CMA Award recipient, and a two-time Grammy-winning artist whose songwriting has earned him the prestigious ASCAP Founders Award and an induction into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame as a 2011 Songwriter/Artist inductee. Jackson's The Bluegrass Album, released September 24 on ACR (Alan's Country Records)/EMI Records Nashville and produced by Keith Stegall and Jackson's nephew, Adam Wright, has garnered rave reviews in its first week of release. The new album boasts the talents of such bluegrass greats as Sammy Shelor (banjo), Adam Steffey (mandolin), Tim Crouch (fiddle), Tim Dishman (bass), Rob Ickes (dobro) and Ronnie Bowman and Don Rigsby (vocals) and Scott Coney (acoustic guitar), also a member of Jackson's touring band."  
> It would be hard not to go to the top awards with that band behind you.  Heck I could put Ronnie Stoneman singing in that band and she would win at IBMA.


I don't think f5Loar is specifically commenting on the quality of a Jackson Bluegrass album, but rather a disappointment that he sees the political "wheels" behind the way the IBMA chooses the "best in bluegrass".

Lets face it, someone with popularity like this will prevent any of the bluegrass bands that we currently know and love from gaining the recognition they deserve.

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DataNick

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## William Smith

Do ya wonder why these "country music" people go to Bluegrass? For some it was their first love and profession. Just yesterday My wife and I were taking our little girl to a farm/little park and we had the radio on, we had on the country music station and I was disgusted! Almost everything that we heard was what "pop" music is/used to be before it turned to that rap/hip hop crap. Long Gone are the true blue Country stars such as Buck Owens, Merle Haggard, Cash, Willie, Alabama etc....Now that's Country music! Most all of it now is pop, Heck Toby Kieth had a few tunes with a rap flavor didn't he.

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Perry Babasin

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## Tobin

> Lets face it, a heavy hitter like this will prevent any of the bluegrass bands that we currently know and love from gaining the recognition they deserve.


Whether intentional on his part or not, that's probably true.  But does it mean he should stay away because of that?

Maybe the best compromise would be for him to state up front that while he is indeed 'crossing over', he is removing himself from any eligibility for awards.  And what he will do as a gesture of goodwill is to promote and encourage some of these smaller-name bands alongside him.  But I'd bet that his legal team and marketing folks would have a cow if he did that.

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## AlanN

Or maybe the IBMA needs to come up with a new award category:

Best Bluegrass Album By A Guy Who The Mandolin Cafe Argues Over Incessantly

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Jessbusenitz, 

Justus True Waldron, 

padawan, 

sgarrity

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## mandopete

Just like when David Lee Roth went bluegrass - it's a stunt.

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## re simmers

I can't name one Alan Jackson hit.   But, I've heard him sing and he's good.    He has performed 'live' before millions.    I'm sure he puts on a good show, has good musicians and good material.    I'll check out youtube; if he sounds good I'll see him perform if he's in the area.   He will be good for bluegrass; will bring in more fans who will be more willing to come to hear you play at the ruritan club because "Alan Jackson plays bluegrass.   I like 'that' bluegrass."

Many, many people who don't care for bluegrass will say, "you play bluegrass?  I don't like that singing through your nose.   And the banjo is always so loud.   I can't even tell what they're singing about.     They spend half the night getting the sound system to work right."

Typically, 'not so good' bluegrass bands are able to get gigs.  They are willing to play for a meal.   They can't sing, play or relate to an audience, and they give bluegrass a bad name.    These bands are what most people think of as bluegrass.    Alison came along and many millions now say they like bluegrass.    Picky Ricky Skaggs came back to bluegrass with his high standards and a few million now say they like bluegrass.    Marty Raybon plays a limited schedule, he has done the same.    If Alan Jackson plays quality bluegrass and can relate to the audience he will bring more millions to bluegrass.     And more of the general public will say they like 'that.'      And if that causes the 'not so good' bluegrass bands to work on their show and have some pride in their work.....or stay in the basement....so be it.

I absolutely love bluegrass.   I listen to nothing else and I play nothing else.   I attend as many shows as possible.    But why the standards for a typical bluegrass band who plays for an audience are so low is a mystery to me.    If Alan Jackson comes to do a show I am sure it will be a very good show with very good music.  He will draw more people.     Hopefully, the standards will continue to trickle down to the 'typical band.'

***All of this is assuming he's playing bluegrass and not country.   I have not heard anything off of his CD.

Bob

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## randygwatkins

I'll be curious to hear what some have to say after actually listening to his new album.  I have it, and I like it.  I like his country music, and I like the current album.  I honestly have no clue why so many are so dead-set on classifying each genre of music as "this or that", instead of just enjoying the music.  Our local bluegrass club is slowly but surely dying away (literally) because the hard-liners actively discourage younger members, so many come once or twice and are never seen again.  I had a teenager who really liked the mandolin and the music, but much preferred The Infamous Stringdusters, Cadillac Sky etc to the Stanley Brothers, F&S and the like, and as a result he no longer has any interest in bluegrass.  

I also believe that Jackson may bring many, many fans to bluegrass who would have otherwise never given it a chance, purely because they love to hear whatever he chooses to sing, be it gospel, Christmas music, country, bluegrass etc.

Give the new album a listen and see what you think before condemning him for playing it.

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## Bill Baldridge

As long as there are people who like how they feel when they hear Monroe, Stanley, Flatt and Scruggs, Martin, (Insert your new or old favorite.), there will be people playing and singing that style of music.  They will play the music because of how it makes them feel.  Old hippies find each other, old bluegrasser will too.

I have no problem with the IMBA.  It is a trade organization designed to make money for vendors and people in show business.  Nothing wrong with that line of work.  It beats working in a coal mine for money.  Nobody can control the music, they can only control the music business.  If they are taking money from your bluegrass business, you might want to revise you business model.

Bluegrass is only a name.  Let the money have the name.  If they want it they will buy it anyway.

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## Big Joe

I don't think a man with the awards and money AJ has is concerned about winning an IBMA award.  Compared to the awards he's already won, the IBMA are kind of an understatement.  I'm not saying they are not important to the Bluegrass genre, but no one is going to give up a recording opportunity that will make far more money and acclaim to do a bluegrass album just for the money and awards.  I love bluegrass and the musicians, but assuming someone from a successful career like AJ's is going to move there for the fame and awards is pretty short sighted.  There comes a point in some peoples lives when money and awards are no longer all that important.  He does not need any more awards for fame and having an IBMA award is not that important outside of bluegrass music.  Again, I'm not trying to diminish an award from IBMA, but if he earns one, then he should have one.  If he does not, then he would not likely get one.  I don't believe the awards are for sale to the highest bidder.  Maybe some are jealous because they are afraid they or their friends cannot compete in the open with someone as talented as AJ.  On the other hand, I know a lot of grassers who are very talented and capable of holding their own.  Certainly my first choice for awards is not always those that win, but I don't cry about it.  Are there politics involved?  Certainly.  However, I don't think AJ is in the middle of the bluegrass political elite.

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bjewell, 

Gary Hedrick, 

Jessbusenitz, 

Justus True Waldron, 

Timbofood

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## bjewell

Lots of sour pusses in here.  As the gentleman in "Oh Brother" said after he was baptised, "Come on in boys, the water's fine!'

The more the merrier in my book.

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Gary Hedrick

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## DataNick

> Lots of sour pusses in here.  As the gentleman in "Oh Brother" said after he was baptised, "Come on in boys, the water's fine!'
> 
> The more the merrier in my book.


I think there's a general misunderstanding of the OP's intent.

For the record my reaction was to the David Lee Roth "The View" Bluegrass video...I don't watch network TV and had never seen it; and it was pretty ugh! to me.

If I'm reading f5loar's intent, I think (and I stand to be corrected) he was comparing what he sees as an outcome of this with a scenario for example of Ben Affleck doing a R&R record, and it winning a Grammy. We all know that Mr. Affleck is not a "dedicated" musician, so in that scenario, an award of that type would be a slap in the face of the other hard working rock n rollers doin it 365 days a year, and his award could be argued was largely a result of his power/prestige that would allow him to hire the best songwriters, best session guys(you know kind of what NBC did with The Monkees).
And no, *I am not comparing Alan Jackson with The Monkees!*

I believe the OP was drawing on a similar type parallel (power/prestige) to Alan Jackson. I've got no personal beef or steak in what anybody does...I just find the whole David Lee Roth thing blatently distasteful, and if that's what the "industry" of bluegrass music is becoming, then well...

But no sour puss here bjewell...to each his own...

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## Timmando

I imagine Alan is doing a bluegrass album because he heard from the pros that there are tens and tens of dollars to be made...

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Jessbusenitz, 

padawan

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## Gary Hedrick

Well I will likely be proven wrong on one or two of these BUT many folks that were are or were in today's rock and country have bluegrass roots.....Vince Gill, Emmy Lou Harris, Patty Loveless, Travis Tritt, Steve Wariner, John Hartford, Glen Campbell, Gene Johnson and so on and so on......I'll bet  this group on the Café  could come up with a blue million folks ......point is that bluegrass for many is one start into the world of music......no damn money in it except for perhaps the very very few but it is a starting place. 

So what if Alan Jackson does some bluegrass....it doesn't get my panties in a bunch....you can buy it....listen to it or choose not to.  I'll bet that Jackson is doing a more traditional bluegrass than the Punch Brothers....

Hey it's all good......the more the merrier and it will only strengthen bluegrass in the long run.....and likely improve the options for the mandolin world.....


ps The Whites....Skaggs had his country pinnacle as did Keith Whitley....and Dolly....and Linda Ronstadt......and Dan Fogleburg....

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randygwatkins

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## DataNick

As I stated earlier, I think there's a general misunderstanding of the OP's intent.

The point here to be debated I thought was whether or not the "advantage" that someone like Alan Jackson has inherently by virtue of his power/prestige should be rewarded with an artistic award. Put that band and whatever songwriters behind Joe Blow from Chatanoogie and I believe folks would cry that he's only under consideration for the award due to who's backing him.

*Example:* Chris Cross won 5 Grammys in 1979 and record of the year for "Ride Like The Wind", which featured a prominent background/bridge vocal by Michael McDonald. Everybody knows that at that time everything Michael McDonald touched turned to gold.
That vocal, it could be argued, was what helped get Chris Cross airplay as an unknown. His producer at Warner Bros. was responsible for getting Michael McDonald to sing on the track. So it could be argued that the advantage of having Michael McDonald's vocals got him the airplay that dozens of other really talented artists trying to break through, never got. I want to emphasize, I'm not begrudging Chris Cross anything he's accomplished. I'm just sayin, by the saavy of his producer, he did have an advantage as an unknown that got him airplay.

I don't believe that the OP was taking issue with Mr. Jackson's right to make any kind of record in any genre that he wants to; just whether or not, given the circumstances, it should be rewarded artistically.

And that at the end of the day is a matter of opinion, nothing more, nothing less!

----------


## DataNick

Not to beat the horse, but check out the personnel on Chris Cross's debut album produced by Michael Omartian.

Again, smart recruiting by his producer Michael Omartian.

Personnel
*Larry Carlton - guitar*
Valerie Carter - vocals, background vocals
*Lenny Castro - percussion*
Christopher Cross - guitar, vocals
Assa Drori - concert master
*Victor Feldman - percussion
Chuck Findley - trumpet*
Jay Graydon - guitar
*Don Henley - vocals, background vocals*
Jim Horn - saxophone
Eric Johnson - guitar
Jackie Kelso - saxophone
*Nicolette Larson - vocals, background vocals*
Myrna Matthews - vocals, background vocals
Marty McCall - vocals
Lew McCreary - trombone
*Michael McDonald - vocals, background vocals*
Rob Meurer - Synthesizer, keyboards
Michael Omartian - synthesizer, keyboards, vocals, background vocals
Stormie Omartian - vocals, background vocals
Tomás Ramírez - saxophone
Don Roberts - saxophone
Andy Salmon - bass
*J.D. Souther - vocals, background vocals*
Tommy Taylor - drums

And Chris is a talented guy, as evidenced by his rockin guitar break at the end of Ride Like The Wind.

----------

Perry Babasin

----------


## Timbofood

If there is something which spurs on some interest in this genre, we should not be irritated by this.  Face it, there are a lot of pickers out there who's first exposure to BG was "Bonnie and Clyde" the next generation saw "Deliverance" last one was "Oh, brother".
So, why pillory AJ for his paragraph of the page of trying to popularize this form of music? This will pass like a kidney stone for some but, rolls off me like water off Bill's Stetson. 
The cocktail hour is upon some of us now, see you tomorrow!

----------


## Gary Hedrick

Heck I know that Darryl Wolfe played all sorts of rock tinged Bluegrass in past years as I bet Tom did.....

Heck my brother and I even played Beatles songs in the mid 60's....cross over....cross back....go here....go there....venture here and venture there.....

Stay with Rank Stranger as your base and things do get a bit mundane.....

----------

Timbofood

----------


## DataNick

> As I stated earlier, I think there's a general misunderstanding of the OP's intent.
> 
> The point here to be debated I thought was whether or not the "advantage" that someone like Alan Jackson has inherently by virtue of his power/prestige should be rewarded with an artistic award. Put that band and whatever songwriters behind Joe Blow from Chatanoogie and I believe folks would cry that he's only under consideration for the award due to who's backing him...


Again for the umpteenth time, *it's not (I believe) whether or not Alan Jackson makes a bluegrass record that the OP was putting for consideration. It was the merits of bestowing on someone like him an artistic award when the playing field is rigged...*

Everybody keeps going on and on about the merits of him playing Bluegrass. I could care less what he plays...but do you believe that the power of prestige and money should garner consideration for an award?

Cause if you do, consider your reaction if Joe Blow from Chatanoogie had the same talent pool behind him. How many of us would decry his accomplishment because of the sentiment: "Well look at who was backin him up, and the stable of songwriters behind him".

That's the point I'm interested in discussing; I could really care less if Alan Jackson put out a Bluegrass record than if he put out a 1940's Big Band jazz record or sang Tibetan Monestary songs!

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## Gary Hedrick

Well now that you have been that forceful.....and apparently irritated 

Hell no he shouldn't be able to "buy" an award....use his mojo to do it......BUT get serious ...as Big Joe said....do you really think he could give a poop about winning an IBMA award????

BUT if he plays the music well......folks like it....then give him an award based upon his performance....

----------


## DataNick

> Well now that you have been that forceful.....and apparently irritated 
> 
> Hell no he shouldn't be able to "buy" an award....use his mojo to do it......BUT get serious ...as Big Joe said....do you really think he could give a poop about winning an IBMA award????
> 
> BUT if he plays the music well......folks like it....then give him an award based upon his performance....


Gary,

Not irritated, just trying to stay on point with this.

I'm not concerned with discussing his motives, just the outcome, and if he gets the award, then it should be OK for Joe Blow from Chatanoogie who hasn't paid one dime of Bluegrass dues to garner the same award if he has the same resources behind him?

I'm OK with that, but I suspect a lot of us are predjudiced one way & not the other! (Yeah give it to Alan, but this Joe Blow blow guy, he just bought the award with connections, etc.)

I wonder if Alan Jackson did a Bluegrass record with unknown but hot pickers from around the USA, how it would be received?

I honestly have no clue...just food for thought!


Late!

----------


## padawan

> Well now that you have been that forceful.....and apparently irritated 
> 
> Hell no he shouldn't be able to "buy" an award....use his mojo to do it......BUT get serious ...as Big Joe said....do you really think he could give a poop about winning an IBMA award????
> 
> BUT if he plays the music well......folks like it....then give him an award based upon his performance....


 I did a quick check and he has 31 major awards already from the AMA, ACM and CMA plus two Grammys so *I* don't think he is likely to be in it for the trophies.  But either way, I'll judge his efforts the same way I judge any other (and sure, I'll complain if he wins awards for a lame effort).

 I've got my fingers crossed that its some pretty awesome stuff though (I haven't heard any of it yet).  I'm not _counting_ on it being any good... but I'm hoping.

----------

Gary Hedrick

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## bjewell

Heard that "John Lennon Plays and Sings Blugrass" will be coming out very early next April.  If what I've read about the band is true, he's gonna be backed up by some real heavyweights...

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## mandopete

> The point here to be debated I thought was whether or not the "advantage" that someone like Alan Jackson has inherently by virtue of his power/prestige should be rewarded with an artistic award.


Like I said, I got $5 says it won't happen.

----------

DataNick

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## DataNick

> Heard that "John Lennon Plays and Sings Blugrass" will be coming out very early next April.  If what I've read about the band is true, he's gonna be backed up by some real heavyweights...




That Ringo sure keeps a good bottom end!

----------


## shawnbrock

> The News broke today:  Alan Jackson's new Bluegrass band to open MerleFest this year. Next will come RedFox, Bean Blossom, Summersville, WVA, Rosine, Denton.
> So for those you who said it was a one off at the Station Inn , I knew better.  He has recorded an all Bluegrass CD.  He is now touring with a Bluegrass Band.  Next comes the wins in guitar,singer,band, and the big entertainer of the year 2014 at IBMA in Raleigh next Sept.  He's got almost a full year to make it known he is in it to win it.  Steve Martin did it last year, now it's Jackson's turn. Has anyone forgotten Bruce Hornesby big Grammy Bluegrass win?  Anybody but those that make a living at Bluegrass music.
> I bet the next announcement for MerleFest is for Janie Frickie's new bluegrass tour to be included.  Then will come senior Gibb brother Barry out on his "BeeGees do Monroe" tour.  Skaggs has already got that one started.


You're completely wrong about one part of your statement.  He won't have to go after the IBMA awards, they are already creaming to give them to him.  He don't have to do any touring, he'll get them anyhow...  According to some of the pickers in this "band", only a few dates have been booked, in clueing Letterman.  I just don't see him playing many festivals, because they can't afford him, and at his lowest price they can't afford him, plus he wouldn't make nearly as much as his Country gigs.

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## DataNick

> You're completely wrong about one part of your statement.  He won't have to go after the IBMA awards, they are already creaming to give them to him.  He don't have to do any touring, he'll get them anyhow....


And I'm irritated? or even worse cynical?

Hmmm...this will be interesting on how it plays out, if you find this kind of thing interesting that is!...

Late!

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## Gary Hedrick

You do have a point in that if a small town Georgia boy were to cut a record with the same fellows......and appear under the moniker of Billy Bob Johnson would he meet with success.....unlikely....I just did an internet search and the "third estate" fellows are just falling all over themselves about this album.....just like Dolly......just like The Trio......a throw back to a more simple time as one of them said.......horse pucky....but hey it's all good if George Clooney can mouth the words and bluegrass gets a shot in the pant then great.....

Strikes me like the "Do It For Bill" T shirts.......do what for Bill......really....  the $   the $   the $....he may be having fun doing it but someone is going to make the $'s ......it makes the world go round...

----------

DataNick

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## DataNick

It's all good Gary!

I look at this thing like a Johnny Cash Bluegrass Album. Johnny Cash apparently had jams at his pad that Bill Monroe attended; they even hung out together going to horse races and such. So Johhny comes out with a "Bluegrass" album featuring Mr. Monroe Kenny Baker, Earl Scruggs, Jimmy Martin, etc.

Would I mind? Heck no!

But you couldn't get me to take Johnny Cash seriously as a bluegrass artist either...and certainly not deserving of Bluegrass Artist or Album of the year by the IBMA...maybe the Grammy folks cause they always muck it up anyway, but not the IBMA.

Just my 2 cents...

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## roysboy

AJ is recording an album of music by Tibetan Monks ? Surely he's only doing it to win the _Silver Chime_  next fall .

----------

DataNick

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## f5loar

I see some of you think this AJ Bluegrass Award thing is all a joke.  For those of you who know me know I don't joke when it comes to all things Bluegrass.  Where I am getting my suspect about this AJ Bluegrass train to Raleigh is pretty simple to figure out.  A few years back AJ came out with an all gospel album.  Even had an hour TV special on it that ran continue on CMT for a year.  AJ told everyone he only did it for his mother who loved these gospel songs so the album was dedicated to her.  It didn't get squat on Country Radio play yet it landed him 4 top awards in the Gospel Music genre including the coveted "Dove" award.  AJ doesn't joke around either when it comes to his career.  From his official website he says this about his new venture into all things bluegrass: "Jackson says he wanted to make an album that didn’t disappoint the bluegrass world. “I didn’t want them to think I was just another country act wanting to make a bluegrass album. I wanted it to be as true as I knew how to make it—to be something I could be proud of.” And where the rubber meets the road—with the soulful, genuine, dyed-in-the-wool music of The Bluegrass Album—he’s done exactly that. - See more at: http://www.alanjackson.com/about.htm....qDbiusWO.dpuf
I could be wrong about this but not according to AJ's past track record.  If he is after the IBMA awards he will take no prisoners on his way to the red carpet in Raleigh to accept his top awards.  I really don't care one way or the other as he is not knocking me out of an award.  It's Del McCoury, Doyle Lawson, Vincent & Dailey , Grasscals, Rhonda Vincent, James King Band, Karl Shifflet, David Petterson, Ricky Skaggs, Darrell Webb, Nashville Bluegrass Band, Cedar Hill, Peter Rowan, Bobby Osborne, Jesse McReynolds, Boxcars, Ronnie Reno and all the other real bluegrass artists that stay with it day after day, year after year, mile after mile that I feel for.

----------

dang, 

DataNick, 

Timbofood, 

William Smith

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## Gary Hedrick

Oh it is likely no joke......marketing....name recognition....and star power as was said earlier....will make the powers that be all gushy and happy faced......if he pursues it further than the album it will likely happen

and I too have read the reviews but haven't plunked down my money but it sounds like he has recorded the real deal....

I will pay for McCoury....Skaggs....etc not likely Alan....but my wife has a ton of his country cd's!!!

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## f5loar

Gary, I'm on the fence about actually buying this CD.  He only does 2 songs I know as real "bluegrass", the Dillards, "There Is A Time" and Monroe's "Blue Moon of KY" and from what I heard of Blue Moon he mucks it up by thanking the band in the middle of the song like he is doing a live stage show on a studio recording.  Kinda odd even for Jackson.  The other songs I gather are written for Jackson to sing in the "bluegrass" style by his dozens of Nashville songwriters.  If I want to hear a bluegrass song about a Blue Ridge Mountain home, I'll stick with Flatt&Scruggs and the Stanleys.  Which to mean translates into giving it a one time listen and file it with my David Lee Roth bluegrass CD never to be heard by me again.  Maxwell Jump!

----------

DataNick, 

Timbofood

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## Tom Coletti

I really don't care for Alan Jackson's music in the first place, but at the end of the day, we're arguing about whether or not a person gets his name read off on a glowing rectangle and gets a clear plastic obelisk glued to a wooden block with his name on it. Worse things can happen than a person becoming interested in a different genre than the one that they're normally associated with, like a thread creating grandiose conspiracies about a person becoming interested in a different genre than the one that they're normally associated with.

That, and the whole "REAL and TRUE" bluegrass drivel gets old really quickly...

--Tom

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## Tom Coletti

UPDATE: I've just returned from iTunes, having listened to the 90-second previews of each track, and here's what I have to say about it:

It doesn't really matter if he's doing this because he can make another eleven dollars in revenue, it doesn't really matter if he's commandeering festival shows and award shows alike. Alan Jackson's Bluegrass Album is, upon first impression and at risk of being the victim of the next bluegrass murder ballad, a good album. Great vocals and harmonies, great yet subtle licks by well-renowned players like Rob Ickes, and at a somewhat laid-back and easy-going pace that can be enjoyed casually rather than at a brisk sprint out of an exploding building.

Even if the round of "special thanks" seemed out of place in the middle of Blue Moon and could have waited until the end, it didn't affect my interest in everything before it, and it shows that he is, contrary to public belief here, an actual person and not a clear-plastic-obelisk hoarding phony. He found the right people, did his homework, and got the general feel of bluegrass instrumentation down along with some nice harmonies, and while his country background does seep through the percussive chops and the forward rolls and the growly slides every now and then, it's just a reminder that he is still a country artist in his roots, but now a country artist who has taken a promising first step into the bluegrass world. 

Some may find the album to be "too safe" or "too generic" or "too clean" or, quite simply, "any quality that you may not like or expect in this genre of music due to your prior exposure to other artists that you may prefer," but it's not overtly objectionable or just a country album without drums or whatever else people may have thought this album to be. I actually quite like it, and if he wants to continue this with either the album's players or a new batch of bluegrass musicians, then I'm all for it.

--Tom

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## padawan

> Gary, I'm on the fence about actually buying this CD.  He only does 2 songs I know as real "bluegrass", the Dillards, "There Is A Time" and Monroe's "Blue Moon of KY" and from what I heard of Blue Moon he mucks it up by thanking the band in the middle of the song like he is doing a live stage show on a studio recording.  Kinda odd even for Jackson.  The other songs I gather are written for Jackson to sing in the "bluegrass" style by his dozens of Nashville songwriters.  If I want to hear a bluegrass song about a Blue Ridge Mountain home, I'll stick with Flatt&Scruggs and the Stanleys.  Which to mean translates into giving it a one time listen and file it with my David Lee Roth bluegrass CD never to be heard by me again.  Maxwell Jump!


  Actually, AJ didn't use "dozens of Nashville songwriters".  He wrote most of the songs on the album himself.  From what I've read since this thread started it appears that he really loves writing his own songs (and with all of his hits over the years he seems to be VERY good at it).  In fact his first job in Nashville was as a songwriter. He did that for 3 years before he got to record an album of his own.

  I am dreading hearing what you mention about "Blue Moon of KY" but I will still be picking up this album, if only to hear the backup band and see what all the hubub is about with Mr. Jackson's attempt at BG.

----------


## dang

> I really don't care one way or the other as he is not knocking me out of an award.  It's Del McCoury, Doyle Lawson, Vincent & Dailey , Grasscals, Rhonda Vincent, James King Band, Karl Shifflet, David Petterson, Ricky Skaggs, Darrell Webb, Nashville Bluegrass Band, Cedar Hill, Peter Rowan, Bobby Osborne, Jesse McReynolds, Boxcars, Ronnie Reno and all the other real bluegrass artists that stay with it day after day, year after year, mile after mile that I feel for.


Exactly.

To put it in another context:
The new Del McCoury Band album came out sept 17th and has been rated by 7 people in the iTunes store.  
AJ's album came out Sept 24th and has been rated by 147 people.  

Funny thing is both ratings are for over 4 1/2 stars...  If IBMA wants to sell out even more and go for the popular act, keep following the money, and leave tradition out in the cold then so be it.  But watch out, f5loar is onto you!

----------

DataNick, 

Gary Hedrick

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## AlanN

Too wise.

I too say 'Go for it, AJ'. But, there is only one award. The Doyles, Dels, etc. surely are more deserving.

And to hear that AJ thanks the band...on a recording...well, I don't know what to say here.

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## Alan Lackey

jeebus...this almost feels so purist that it borders on obsessive.  While I might understand if someone like Dirks Bentley or Jason Aldean suddenly went on some big BG push...AJ is by far about as close to traditional country as many in the industry.  I thought that was the beauty of music, it drew people to it...to explore what could be done with it.

One of my all time favorite singers/songwriters/musicians was Dan Fogelberg...he put out a BG themed album in 1985 and had the likes of Grisman, Doc Watson, Skaggs, Jim Buchanan, Vince Gill, Charlie McCoy, Al Perkins, Chris Hillman...etc. playing on it and it was not traditional but had some great music and playing on it.  I guess all those guys are just heathens now for playing on an album like that.

I just dont get this fear that Jackson might actually be successful in this project.

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## AlanN

I've got wide open ears, and when it comes to bluegrass, I like it pure as mother's milk. Not to say it has to be all F&S, Monroe...not at all. But it needs to be true.

I recall the Seldom Scene, when they hooked up with Jonathan Edwards. He surely boosted their rep, into outside the bluegrass world, and one or two tunes on that album were good. But, for me, it got old.

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## Alan Lackey

Yeah, I want to follow up on my comments so they are maybe a bit more in perspective.  I have a huge amount of respect for the posters on this board, especially those with the long history in bluegrass and on this fine instrument.  I love this place because I feel I learn something every time I come here, including from f5loar.  It's clear he has forgotten more than I will probably take in going forward.

However I am not sure I understand the definition of what makes someone eligible to perform bluegrass on stage, because that is what this discussion seems to feel like.  I think anyone who brings more people into the bluegrass genre while trying to stay true to the music itself is a huge thing.  Again, its not like Daft Punk is sampling Monroe or Scruggs and leeching off that to sell music in another genre.

Just confused by all this I guess.

----------


## Tobin

> However I am not sure I understand the definition of what makes someone eligible to perform bluegrass on stage, because that is what this discussion seems to feel like.  I think anyone who brings more people into the bluegrass genre while trying to stay true to the music itself is a huge thing.


I'm betting that the main point of objection to AJ's entry into bluegrass can be summed up in the following sentence:

"He hasn't paid his dues."

Lots and lots of other fine artists are in the process of paying their dues in this genre, trying to build names for themselves.  It's a bit of a slap in the face to them for someone like Alan Jackson to come strolling in with his celebrity status and take the spotlight off of all of them.  Even if AJ's bluegrass project ends up being good for everyone in the end, it's still a bitter pill for many of the up-and-coming artists to swallow.  I can certainly see why these smaller-name artists (and those who support them) would object to AJ crashing in and stealing their thunder, so to speak.  He simply hasn't earned it in the bluegrass world yet, but he's going to get all the attention he wants based on his other successes.

But I can also see AJ's side.  The man likes gospel and bluegrass, and wants to be involved in music that's a little more "true" than the modern C&W industry.  But how can he possibly make that crossover without accidentally stepping on other peoples' toes?  Should he have an obligation to NOT perform a style of music that he likes, just for fear of upsetting others?  Personally, from what I've read, I think he has taken a measured approach to it by enlisting several bluegrass insiders to be involved in his project.  At least that way he is trying to come into it with some guidance.  But he would do very well to stay humble in this transition.

----------

Alan Lackey, 

DataNick, 

f5loar

----------


## randygwatkins

Hopefully come awards time, those issues will not be the overriding factor in who wins, until then we are just arguing about something that is pure speculation.  In the meantime I suggest we welcome AJ to the genre and appreciate what he can bring to it.  I suspect just his name on the Merlefest bill will bring many, many people who otherwise not hear the fine music there.
Interestingly, to my knowledge there was no outcry amongst country music fans when Darius Rucker made the switch from "Hootie" to just plain ol' Darius, and more recently when Sheryl Crow announced she was pursuing country music.  Darius has won many awards since the switch, but it's not because of his reputation, it's because of his talent and work.

----------


## Tom Coletti

The qualifications for being somehow legitimate in becoming a respectable bluegrass musician seem more loopholed and contorted than voting poll "literacy tests"... "paying one's dues" can be interpreted as "not having already been a bluegrass player since before we were born" or "not being raised in some part of a country under certain living conditions" in an almost xenophobic way, essentially shutting out anyone that people just don't want to hear. "Real and true" is then used as a snobbish measure of how much of a carbon copy are you of everything that has already happened, and the "everyone should be encouraged to play bluegrass, because if you play bluegrass, you can play anything" claim is really a cover for "anyone can play bluegrass except for the people that we deem unworthy" because they fail the "real and true" test or some other nonsense. I really want to believe that bluegrass is an encouraging and accepting genre of allowing people to follow tradition if they want to or do their own thing if they want to, but it comes off as so stubborn, closed-minded, fearful and neophobic that I sometimes get genuinely concerned for its future. 

--Tom

----------

randygwatkins

----------


## dang

> "He hasn't paid his dues."


I wouldn't say it is that he hasn't paid his dues.  More like:

"Don't apply some formula to an already successful act with a HUGE following and think that makes you 'the best' in an adjacent genre."

In a way all of bluegrass wins with more exposure to the larger audience, and in a way something is lost in that great homogenizer that is pop culture.

----------

Gary Hedrick

----------


## Gary Hedrick

Now this is the posting that really hits home to me......Nicely said....nicely said indeed!!!


you are from the Alan Hopkins school of well thought out postings!

----------

allenhopkins

----------


## mandopete

> "He hasn't paid his dues."


Well, let's send him a bill!

Now I really want to hear this recording - thanks for the heads-up!

----------


## f5loar

Oh he has paid his dues............. IBMA dues that is.  You have to be an IBMA member to be nominated.  Welcome to IBMA Mr. Jackson!
The names of people who have done this would be along list.  One mentioned Dirks Bentley.  He's already been there, done that and didn't create a ruckus.  No Bluegrass Festival gigs.  Just a one time bluegrass album that gets minor radio play on Bluegrass Sirius and a gig or two in Nashville at the Station Inn.  Some say he even comes by there to see other acts in bluegrass. Oh and his picture on the cover of BU which is not quite the same as on the cover of Rolling Stone.   But putting Dirks up against Alan Jackson is like putting Paul McCartney up against Herman's Hermits (both of which are still touring).  The mention of the reviews on ITunes of Del and Alan is what it boils down to, a popularity contest and the winner is the one with the most votes.  I saw on Facebook from my good ole pickin' buddy, ex JDCrowe guy Tony King that he is upset about the AJ bluegrass album reviews not mention two other guys in the band that are not bluegrass guys but country guys that helped out just as much on the project.  And speaking of the title "Bluegrass Album" really?  Why not add the "Band" name to it and really stir up the die-hards!   AJ's producers couldn't come up with something anymore original than that?

----------

DataNick

----------


## Mandosummers

I have a copy of the AJ album.  I've been listening for about a week. Its as "bluegrass" (whatever that is) as anything I have, and I have a bunch all the way back to the JD Crowe and the New South landmark album and beyond.  Is it my favorite bluegrass album of all time.. no, but its a fun listen, for me at least.  Adam's mandolin is worth the price of the album.  As far as paying dues, AJ didn't do the album by himself.  If he gets an award nod then (to some debatable extent) so do Adam, Rob, Ronnie, Tim, Don et. al.  I think those guys have paid a few.

----------

Tom Coletti

----------


## randygwatkins

Comparing Del and AJ on Itunes reviews is apples to oranges.  I'd bet AJ will have a 50 or 100:1 ratio of views on Itunes, simply because he has a fan base of "a BAZILLION" as mentioned earlier.  Itunes comments only reflect two things, 1) how many people visit the page to listen to the music, and 2) how they like it.  It is very clear from the popularity meters on each individual track how it is resonating with listeners, I don't believe I've ever seen another album with each song so highly rated.  The comments are uniformly extremely positive and supportive.  

I don't see this translating to an IBMA award, and as mentioned, I doubt he cares much.  The point is that people seem to like the more traditional sound of bluegrass/traditional country, and I think that's a good thing for everyone involved.  Maybe a few of those newcomers he's dragging to Merlefest will start listening to Del, LRB etc.

----------

Tom Coletti

----------


## Tom Coletti

> I saw on Facebook from my good ole pickin' buddy, ex JDCrowe guy Tony King that he is upset about the AJ bluegrass album reviews not mention two other guys in the band that are not bluegrass guys but country guys that helped out just as much on the project.


So a person on the internet read a post by another person on the internet expressing his contempt for other people on the internet expressing their opinions on an album... Might be a bit more efficient and a bit less biased to just listen to album directly and decide objectively if you like it or not.




> The mention of the reviews on ITunes of Del and Alan is what it boils down to, a popularity contest and the winner is the one with the most votes.


iTunes ratings are in fact somewhat unrelated in the matter. People who listen to more popular music more frequently tend to be more active in their iTunes accounts and therefore more likely to use the rating and review systems as well as other additional features. The difference in number of ratings could be influenced by traffic, but more likely by the demographic, and since they both received good reviews, regardless of quantity, then we can assume that they were both well-received albums. If the IBMA does come down to a popularity contest, then it wouldn't be any different than any other music award ceremony. Bluegrass isn't exempt from the detriments of the modern entertainment industry.




> And speaking of the title "Bluegrass Album" really?  Why not add the "Band" name to it and really stir up the die-hards!   AJ's producers couldn't come up with something anymore original than that?


This is just petty... Considering that he primarily had and still has a huge country following, if the album was under any other title, his regular listeners who didn't know the background of the project before it came out may have been surprised as to why this sounded so different from his other albums, both instrumentally and rhythmically. This could be a good title to give it, actually. A great one. Make the album title a clear advertisement for the bluegrass name, and sooner or later some of his fans will look up 'bluegrass" to see what other results pop up, and before you know it, they may very well be searching through the material that you claim has so much more merit. "The Bluegrass Album" is a functional title. That's it.

And how do you know that his producers chose the name and not him? It has already been suggested that he tends to be much more involved personally in his work than other popular artists, so he could have chosen that name himself for the aforementioned reason above: letting his fans know that this is off of his beaten path and into another genre.

For anyone reading this thread who has yet to hear anything off of the album directly, here you go:





--Tom

----------


## Alan Lackey

> I'm betting that the main point of objection to AJ's entry into bluegrass can be summed up in the following sentence:
> 
> "He hasn't paid his dues."
> 
> Lots and lots of other fine artists are in the process of paying their dues in this genre, trying to build names for themselves.  It's a bit of a slap in the face to them for someone like Alan Jackson to come strolling in with his celebrity status and take the spotlight off of all of them.  Even if AJ's bluegrass project ends up being good for everyone in the end, it's still a bitter pill for many of the up-and-coming artists to swallow.  I can certainly see why these smaller-name artists (and those who support them) would object to AJ crashing in and stealing their thunder, so to speak.  He simply hasn't earned it in the bluegrass world yet, but he's going to get all the attention he wants based on his other successes.


I understand that point, but isn't that more an indictment of the awards themselves?  Should Thile be criticized because he may, deservingly so, steal some thunder in the classical genre over his recent works?  He hardly has spent his career sidled up next to Yo-Yo Ma for the last 10+ years working his way through that scene.

If AJ's bluegrass "experiment" is worthy on its own merits...who cares if it hasn't been his primary focus over his career?  

Those are more questions to the subject than a critical response to you so please don't take them otherwise.

----------


## Tobin

Alan, I completely understand your point, and agree with it.  I guess it's just human nature, though, that a perceived "Johnny-Come-Lately" is going to stir things up when he comes into a new group of people, especially if he does it with too much fanfare.  We see it in every aspect of human interaction.  People who reach the top of their fields are more respected when they have worked for it through many years of dedication, and have built their fan base in that field over time.  

Alan Jackson certainly earned his spot in C&W, but bluegrass is a different ball of wax.  He hasn't spent the years in bluegrass that many other players have, but he will likely get the recognition anyway, just because he's a celebrity.  I don't have a problem with him winning awards if his music is good enough on its own, but I can certainly understand how others might.

----------

Alan Lackey

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## DataNick

> Alan, I completely understand your point, and agree with it.  I guess it's just human nature, though, that a perceived "Johnny-Come-Lately" is going to stir things up when he comes into a new group of people, especially if he does it with too much fanfare.  We see it in every aspect of human interaction.  People who reach the top of their fields are more respected when they have worked for it through many years of dedication, and have built their fan base in that field over time.  
> 
> Alan Jackson certainly earned his spot in C&W, but bluegrass is a different ball of wax.  He hasn't spent the years in bluegrass that many other players have, but he will likely get the recognition anyway, just because he's a celebrity.  I don't have a problem with him winning awards if his music is good enough on its own, but I can certainly understand how others might.


+1...He's comin in as a "ringer" with a rigged playing field behind him.

When Michael Jordan decided to become a Major League Baseball player, though his owner owned both the NBA Bulls and MLB WhiteSox, he didn't just show up at Comiskey park with uniform in tow. To his credit/character he went to the Minor Leagues to pay his dues...where he figured out he could never hit a major league curveball, and gave the whole thing up. But to his credit, MJ rode the bus with the other minor league players, didn't ask for or accept special treatment, and Earned those guys respect...Nice lesson there from arguably the Greatest basketball player to ever play the game...Mr. Jackson would do well to emulate MJ on that one!

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> +1...He's comin in as a "ringer" with a rigged playing field behind him.
> 
> When Michael Jordan decided to become a Major League Baseball player, though his owner owned both the NBA Bulls and MLB WhiteSox, he didn't just show up at Comiskey park with uniform in tow. To his credit/character he went to the Minor Leagues to pay his dues...where he figured out he could never hit a major league curveball, and gave the whole thing up. But to his credit, MJ rode the bus with the other minor league players, didn't ask for or accept special treatment, and Earned those guys respect...Nice lesson there from arguably the Greatest basketball player to ever play the game...Mr. Jackson would do well to emulate MJ on that one!


That's a pretty solid analogy I'd say.  

Does anyone know why Jackson wants to do this in the first place?  It can't be for the money.   

I'm most likely not a typical BG fan (not sure who is) but I have followed the music pretty close since about 1973.  

For the record,  I have no particular desire to hear Alan Jackson's BG project.  I imagine it will pop up on Sirius-XM one of these days when I'm on channel 61 in the Jeep and I'll surely listen to it but I won't make any special effort whatsoever to hear it.

----------


## f5loar

It's already on Sirius so get use to it until next late Sept. when AJ walks the red carpet in Raleigh to get the big one.  Listened to the Long Hard Road clip there and that has to be the longest hard road I've been on.  A good 6 1/2 minutes worth of that hard road.  Got kinda boring after hearing about that long hard road over and over and over again.  3 minutes would have been a gracious plenty of that hard road.  Can't knock the band behind him and the vocals are spot on Jackson style.  Doing it for the money?  If he was doing it for the money he would have pitched the Long Hard Road he wrote to Del McCoury and wait for the royalty checks to come rolling in.  But that won't get him the Blue Ribbon he seeks for his trophy case in his 60 million dollar home.

----------

DataNick, 

Stephen Porter

----------


## DataNick

> ... But that won't get him the Blue Ribbon he seeks for his trophy case in his 60 million dollar home.


Makes you wonder why is he doin it?

If he really"believed" in being what Mr. Monroe would have called "100% Bluegrass" he'd get out there and hump it with the likes of Johhny Campbelll and The Blugrass Drifters; playin 30 dates this month from KY to NC to TN, sometimes in the same day and all for gas, food, rent and a little extra!

Nah, he's got some other motivation and I'm inclined to agree with f5loar...

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> Makes you wonder why is he doin it?.....


Bored with what he is doing now?

----------

DataNick

----------


## padawan

Anybody bother to read this yet?
https://ibma.org/node/619

----------

Stephen Porter

----------


## padawan

> +1...He's comin in as a "ringer" with a rigged playing field behind him.
> 
> When Michael Jordan decided to become a Major League Baseball player, though his owner owned both the NBA Bulls and MLB WhiteSox, he didn't just show up at Comiskey park with uniform in tow. To his credit/character he went to the Minor Leagues to pay his dues...where he figured out he could never hit a major league curveball, and gave the whole thing up. But to his credit, MJ rode the bus with the other minor league players, didn't ask for or accept special treatment, and Earned those guys respect...Nice lesson there from arguably the Greatest basketball player to ever play the game...Mr. Jackson would do well to emulate MJ on that one!



 Well, if *I* wanted to put out a bluegrass album I'd write up some songs, pick some covers I could handle, hire the best pickers I could afford for the sessions and after a bit of practice I'd hit the record button. 

 Isn't that exactly what A.J. did?  Would any of you do it differently?  :Confused: 

 The guy has talent enough to write the songs, and play his part on the guitar and sing the vocals (because he's been doing exactly that since he was a child) so I think he's paid his musical dues.  He has the money to hire the best, so he did.  What on earth is wrong with that?  

 I don't get why he is being nailed to a cross for trying new things.  Did anybody ever hear him *say* that he was doing it just for an award?   

 For what its worth:  Now that I've done some reading about the guy, thanks to this thread, he's gone way up on my list of role models and I must admit that I'm now officially an Alan Jackson fan, to some degree at least (even if I _didn't_ really like the music video posted earlier in this thread).   :Smile:

----------


## DataNick

> ...I don't get why he is being nailed to a cross for trying new things.  Did anybody ever hear him *say* that he was doing it just for an award?...


You're way behind on this thread; that argument was put to bed waaaaaay back. It's NOT the act of doing the album; it's the instant push to the awards carpet in front of the line of the hard-working BG artists that I, f5loar and others are having an issue with. And he doesn't have to say he's in it for the awards, it seems obvious per f5loar's gospel project/dove awards recounting. Anyone care to refute that one...

No one has also bothered to refute my MJ analogy as well...

If he wasn't in it for the awards,..he could have done what the Eagles did when they won the grammy for Hotel California...not show up and refuse the award!

I'm waiting for an example, not emotion...

----------


## randygwatkins

> Anybody bother to read this yet?
> https://ibma.org/node/619


Thanks for the link Padawan, this is another one:  
http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/al...try-stuff-left
There is a big movement of late among some commercial country artists who are publicly stating they don't like the country/pop being played on the radio, and Jackson is one of them.  Many of them would prefer to play more acoustic, "bluegrassy" type material but commercial radio will not play it, because that's not what the audience/advertisers want.  

Here's more commentary from Jackson in an NPR interview about the bluegrass album. 
http://www.alanjackson.com/news.html?n_id=4587

and just one more for good measure  :Smile: 
http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/vi...lly-in-country

----------


## DataNick

> Thanks for the link Padawan, this is another one:  
> http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/al...try-stuff-left
> There is a big movement of late among some commercial country artists who are publicly stating they don't like the country/pop being played on the radio, and Jackson is one of them.  Many of them would prefer to play more acoustic, "bluegrassy" type material but commercial radio will not play it, because that's not what the audience/advertisers want.  
> 
> Here's more commentary from Jackson in an NPR interview about the bluegrass album. 
> http://www.alanjackson.com/news.html?n_id=4587


And for the record, I have no problem with any of that! I applaud the fact that they don't like the "Country-Pop-Rock" of these times.

Again my whole hestitation is in awards ahead of those who are doin it day in and day out...cause Bluegrass at it's core is not about makin a record; it's a lifestyle, and it's a real special symbiotic relationship with fans and the genre itself which is heavily rooted in jamming, particularily at festivals. There is no other musical genre where the headline act can be found rubbing shoulders with the common man by playing music together in a jam, because of the Love for the music!

If he shows that kind of geniuine heart for Bluegrass, then I'm all for awards...but you gotta walk that walk first in my book before you talk that awards stuff....cause anybody can make a kick-butt record these days...just my opinion...

----------


## Alan Lackey

I guess time will tell.  There seems to be some sense of conspiracy in this as though he has locked up all the awards before the album has even been out for any real length of time.  If the IBMA awards are that shallow then the argument has lost some if it's bite.

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## Jessbusenitz

What about Doyle Lawson's "I'm That Country"? http://www.amazon.com/Roads-Traveled...s=doyle+lawson   I'm a big fan of Doyle Lawson and Alan Jackson, and if they want to branch out a little who am I to complain!

----------


## roysboy

Hmmmm....  If Tony Rice decided after playing acoustic music ( jazz-a-billy , bluegrass , acoustic whatever -we-want-to-label-it ) for a lifetime and proving himself supremely capable project after project , that he wanted to release a mainstream country -pop album featuring Vince , Paul Franklin ,a host of other respected country session singers an pickers ......maybe Tony Brown or Keith Steigall producing,maybe do a couple of 'Alabama' or Waylon covers because he's always loved the country music greats who inspired him AND because he wanted to do something musically very different to , perhaps , challenge himself, would anyone be saying "Tony just wants to win a CMA award " ?

----------

Timbofood

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## padawan

> And for the record, I have no problem with any of that! I applaud the fact that they don't like the "Country-Pop-Rock" of these times.
> 
> Again my whole hestitation is in awards ahead of those who are doin it day in and day out...cause Bluegrass at it's core is not about makin a record; it's a lifestyle, and it's a real special symbiotic relationship with fans and the genre itself which is heavily rooted in jamming, particularily at festivals. There is no other musical genre where the headline act can be found rubbing shoulders with the common man by playing music together in a jam, because of the Love for the music!
> 
> If he shows that kind of geniuine heart for Bluegrass, then I'm all for awards...but you gotta walk that walk first in my book before you talk that awards stuff....cause anybody can make a kick-butt record these days...just my opinion...


 Ok, now I think I get it. Maybe.

 In my opinion bluegrass is a style of music like rock, jazz, funk, country... and whoever makes the best music should get the award (though "best" will always be open for debate I suppose).  These are music awards, not lifestyle awards.  

  If you want to play good bluegrass you don't have to wear a hat like Monroe's or like the same beer as Steffey, you don't have to kiss babies or carry amps. You just have to be able to play the songs. Though it would be really cool if you could do it like Monroe or Steffey. 

 I'll grant you that I certainly love the way so many of the bluegrass greats treat their fans like old friends and seem to actually enjoy spending time among them but I just don't see how that relates to an award for best album.  

 I guess we just see the world differently.

----------

randygwatkins

----------


## f5loar

> Anybody bother to read this yet?
> https://ibma.org/node/619


  Sure did and it pretty much confirms my thoughts he's not doing a one timer to forget it.  Even the last line says this " But like a lot of good stories, it doesn’t sound like this one is over yet."  The comment above about him being bored sorta nails it too.  Jackson is dried up in the Country media.  He is the last of those biggies that haven't had a hit in decades like Clint Black, George Straight, Garth Brooks, Clay Walker, and the dozen other "hat" guys I forget their names.  Jackson knew if he didn't go after the bluegrass media (the bottom of the barrel for any big time country artists) he would wind up doing a dinner show in Branson.  Ask Roy Clark and Buck Trent how that is going! HeeHaw!  So he's going out riding the charts at IBMA so he can retire and say he's done it all.  Hey did you guys know Country artist Clinton Gregory also went bluegrass?  We still love Marty Rabon who did like Skaggs by starting out bluegrass, then country, then back to bluegrass.  No harm in that.  Show me Jackson's old bluegrass LPs with Ralph Stanley.  NOT!  Just remember I told you so!

----------

DataNick, 

Timbofood

----------


## randygwatkins

Did you seriously just say George Strait hasn't had a hit in decades??   Bahahaha!!   Establishing your credibility?  And if you think Garth Brooks is a washed up old-timer, check out his concert deal in Vegas for the past few years...Steve Wynn seems to believe otherwise.

This thread has derailed from the OP's (yours, F5) point about potential unfairness and bias in the IBMA awards due to AJ's popularity.  I get that, and fully support your position, as does everyone else as far as I can tell.  Castigating AJ's name for wanting to make a bluegrass album and play the music he likes does not address that.  Until we see Del, Doyle etc passed over in favor of a "newcomer" we are really speculating on the future and I see no need until it happens.  Until then, I, for one, am enjoying his album and glad to welcome him to the genre.  He brings attention and fans which could do wonders for the artists and industry, and he's a pretty fair singer too  :Smile:  

Peace

----------

Tom Coletti

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## eadg145

From the article referred by Padawan:




> Ive always been a fan of Bill Monroes songwriting, Jackson said. A lot of songs he wrote were really cool.


and




> I really wanted the cream of the crop in bluegrass because I wanted to make something that would make bluegrass fans proud.


Gee, I dunno.  I don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm certainly no member of the bluegrass police.  Still, when an excited country fan colleague got the album, I got to hear a random cut.  The cut I chose was "Blue Moon of Kentucky", in which Mr. Jackson talks all over the tune thanking everyone who worked on the album.  Uh, this is a studio album, right?  I think I'd save that banter for the tour, but what do I know.  All I can say is that as a middle of the road bluegrass fan, this kinda rubbed me the wrong way.  (Maybe its a Country thing that I don't understand?)

----------


## Tom Coletti

A blasphemous post from the satirical depths of Hades would go something like this:

"Boy, that Monroe fella sure was a phony. He spent his entire early career playing old-timey tunes in a guitar-mandolin duo called the Monroe Brothers. Then he just showed up with a bluegrass band at the Grand Ole Opry in 1939 without ever having played bluegrass before.  Surely he was just trying to do it for the awards and the fame because his old career wasn't anything too spectacular and his popularity was running dry by that point. And then everybody was falling head over heels for him! His stuff was playing nonstop and we all had to listen to it everywhere! Never once paid his dues in associating with any other great respected pickers for decades before that. And so he had some boys playing bluegrass, and he decided to name his band the 'Bluegrass Boys?' What an unoriginal name! Surely his record label could have though of something better. This truly is a dark day for our beloved genre and its assimilation into the bland and generic popular culture!"

But of course, we would never say that, would we? I would have been crucified on an upright bass after the word "phony."

And yet we have somehow applied some or all of that logical fallacy to any other artist that we dismiss as "no part a nuthin'," in this case, Alan Jackson with every offense listed, because bluegrass is a scary world where the only "real and true" thing is hypocrisy in the eyes of anyone too miserably bitter to just let people play what they want without holding a full criminal trial as to whether or not it can then be called bluegrass.

--Tom

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## f5loar

Garth Brooks down to a Vegas act !  I rest my case on that one. Would you like a list of the has-beens that finished their final fling in Vegas? Even long timer Wayne Newton threw in the towel.  Did you see George Straight's last come back on CMA awards show?  He can't sing anymore. Simon would have buzzed him on American Idol.  No hit from that last effort.  Have you noticed the flood of has-been aging rockers teaming up with the new breed in Nashville?  Rock does it too.  Again, I'm not knocking Jackson at all for this nice all acoustic bluegrass sounding CD.  He could sing the yellow pages and his fans would buy it.  I've been a long time fan of Jackson since "Drive" took the charts.  Love that video with the vintage truck.  But I also like to see the real bluegrass artists get their due.  Maybe I've still got a bad taste in my mouth from back when they gave the bluegrass grammy to Bruce Hornsby. This was before the IBMA award show. Since then I waited for Hornsby to drag his Baldwin grand piano up on the stage at Bean Blossom, Summersville, Denton and it never happened.  He got that Bluegrass grammy and disappeared.  He bumped out Nashville BG Band, Doc Watson and several other deserving hard working bluegrassers all because he sang one song with Ricky Skaggs.  Now if you people here think this is okay then so be it.  I've said what I said because I care about our industry and it's future.

----------

Bill Findley, 

dang, 

DataNick, 

Mike Bunting

----------


## Michael Bridges

Been following this thread with interest, finally feel like throwing in. One obvious piece that seems to have been overlooked (to me, anyway),is, we're talking about Alan Jackson. He's had a hugely successful career in country for decades. Stayed true to that honky-tonk country style that got him there, and by all accounts I've heard and read, is still a genuine, decent guy.
If he decides to do a bluegrass-style record, he's not going to come back to Georgia, go to the Music Barn in Ball Ground, and pick out a bunch of pickers to back him up, then start "paying dues" in bars and festivals. Just not a realistic scenario. I'd be interested to find out who, if any, of his all-star band have maybe worked with him before? May be some history there.
I do agree that 6 1/2 minutes is a LOT of Long Hard Road, but I'm gonna have to listen to more before I pass judgement on this project.
I guess my main point is, if he DOES wind up winning any awards from the BG community, the critical eye should perhaps be looking at IBMA itself, instead of the artist.

----------


## padawan

> ...I guess my main point is, if he DOES wind up winning any awards from the BG community, the critical eye should perhaps be looking at IBMA itself, instead of the artist.


 And there you have it.

----------


## padawan

> ...Jackson is dried up in the Country media.  He is the last of those biggies that haven't had a hit in decades....



  Alan Jackson is far from dried up.  He recieved a Grammy in *2002* _and another one_ in *2011*.  

 Feel free to hate the guy but tell it like it is.

----------


## Gary Hedrick

Says Tom (F5Loar) "I've said what I said because I care about our industry and it's future. "

Tom, I really don't agree with you on the totally negative impact of Jackson's or any of these others that have or will sally forth into the world of bluegrass. 
1. They will bring people into the festivals that likely would not have come otherwise. Those folks will be exposed to other bluegrass acts and there will be some residual effect on those groups.   
2. They will bring bluegrass air time to main stream country radio and in some cases the Jay Lenos and David Lettermans of the world. Again attention brought to bluegrass that wouldn't have happened if they weren't there. 
3. I am sure that banjo sales and bluegrass have benefitted greatly by Steve Martin sitting down with his banjo and talking to Leno about it. 
4. Sure these folks will "steal" IBMA or Grammy awards from the hard working, fully dedicated bluegrassers of the world. Those hardworking, living out of busses  folks deserve all the credit and appreciation we can give them BUT awards in all practicality don't put food on the table....shows do....records sales do.  Alan Jackson is bringing what is bluegrass to further attention of the world that wouldn't pay any attention to it if he or the others hadn't done a bluegrass THANG......the spill over from all their feeding at the through will feed a bunch of small bands. There will be further interest in the music......small shows will be created....it will be stylish to have a "country night" party at some doctor's house or some social fundraiser. Some young person may be turned on to play the banjo or (God forbid) the mandolin.....lessons will be given....instruments sold.....cd's or downloads sold...

and some will discover the roots of the music....Monroe CD's will be sold.....the names of Flatt and Scruggs learned...and so on. 

The IBMA honors will be grabbed in a way that is less than "fair" but Del has enough awards and I'm sure would like the increased sales of his music and the fact that more shows will likely come of these "big ships" ploughing through the waters and towing some deserving folk in their wakes.  

Is it fair?    Nah.....even if he does the most outstanding bluegrass music ever...he isn't slogging through the mud that the other folks have to ......I can remember trying to sleep in the back of a 1964 Ford Galaxy station wagon after playing a show in the middle of nowhere in Illinois and thinking "oh isn't this fun" and looking at the $10 bill I made and thinking I have to find a better way to make a buck.....(off to Rose Hulman and the engineering degree)   Now I can afford an over 10k mandolin but don't play worth a sh**.

The great ironies of life!!!!

----------


## DataNick

> ...If he decides to do a bluegrass-style record, he's not going to come back to Georgia, go to the Music Barn in Ball Ground, and pick out a bunch of pickers to back him up, then start "paying dues" in bars and festivals. Just not a realistic scenario...


Hate to disagree with you Mike, but that's precisely what Michael Jordan did!...He paid his dues in Minor league baseball when he didn't have to!...I rest my case on that one!

----------


## Alan Lackey

> Did you see George Straight's last come back on CMA awards show?  He can't sing anymore. Simon would have buzzed him on American Idol.


There are a LOT of folks out there performing, bluegrass included, that don't carry a tune live worth a dang.  But maybe that is all in the ear of the beholder.

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## AlanN

> Hate to disagree with you Mike, but that's precisely what Michael Jordan did!...He paid his dues in Minor league baseball when he didn't have to!...I rest my case on that one!


Yeah, but can AJ hit the fallaway jumper from 25 with Kobe in his face?  :Laughing:

----------


## Tobin

Having now listened to the _Long Hard Road_ example, I think I'm going to give AJ's album a pass.  It is good music and has a nice sound, but it just doesn't "do it" for me.  Maybe I just can't mentally separate his voice from country music enough to appreciate it in bluegrass.  It sounds a little too polished and generic to me.  I find nothing 'incorrect' about the execution, but it just lacks ... I dunno ... character?  Soul?  The timing on the vocals sounds a little too regimented; I think he missed the opportunity to inject some flavor into the vocals and performed it a little too close to perfect, if that makes any sense.  It sounds like he was reading the lyrics from a piece of sheet music, not singing from the heart.  

Like I said, it's good music.  But I don't find it particularly worthy of awards, when I put it side-by-side with what I've heard from a bunch of other talented bluegrass up-and-comers.

----------


## f5loar

> There are a LOT of folks out there performing, bluegrass included, that don't carry a tune live worth a dang.  But maybe that is all in the ear of the beholder.


You got that right.  I like seeing these talent shows and when someone comes on there with a built up story of how good they are and how others tell them they can really sing and then stage lights hit them with 50,000 people looking at them and they loose it real quick on singing on key.  Most of the top tier pro bluegrassers are great singers.  It's that bottom non-pro tier that is out there giving the good ones the bad rap.  And getting old is not kind to your hearing or voice.  I think back of the old Opry guys (some still living and performing) like Porter W. , Bill Anderson, Grandpa Jones, Little Jimmy Dickens, Jean Shepard, even ole George Jones just couldn't cut it anymore like they use to but the fans stood by them.  Heck even Bill Monroe got pretty bad his last 5 years.  So much so his long time label MCA/Decca dropped him without telling him to keep from hurting his feelings.  They said he can still pick and maybe sing tenor but his lead singing has got to go.  And that showed in many of his final years live shows.

----------

Timbofood

----------


## DataNick

> Yeah, but can AJ hit the fallaway jumper from 25 with Kobe in his face?


Alan,

You know white men can't jump...LOL!

Seriously, MJ set the bar high re: one of the most powerful, richest men in the world when crossing over to another genre.

He didn't short-cut it; he had RESPECT for the genre and did it the old-fashioned way...!
*when he didn't have to!*

That is why to this day, who MJ is can get him into ANY MLB clubhouse; but how he went to the minor leagues and humped it with those guys, respecting their craft & the genre, working his butt off (read about it sometime!), will always garner him RESPECT with MLB players when he walks out of that clubhouse!

Case closed on that one!...Next point...

----------


## f5loar

> Having now listened to the _Long Hard Road_ example, I think I'm going to give AJ's album a pass.  It is good music and has a nice sound, but it just doesn't "do it" for me.  Maybe I just can't mentally separate his voice from country music enough to appreciate it in bluegrass.  It sounds a little too polished and generic to me.  I find nothing 'incorrect' about the execution, but it just lacks ... I dunno ... character?  Soul?  The timing on the vocals sounds a little too regimented; I think he missed the opportunity to inject some flavor into the vocals and performed it a little too close to perfect, if that makes any sense.  It sounds like he was reading the lyrics from a piece of sheet music, not singing from the heart.  
> 
> Like I said, it's good music.  But I don't find it particularly worthy of awards, when I put it side-by-side with what I've heard from a bunch of other talented bluegrass up-and-comers.


I'm feeling that way too.  Too many original songs that just aren't bluegrass enough to be bluegrass even with the right band. I would much rather have heard 2 or 3 originals and the rest old bluegrass standards with those guys really shining on the breaks.
I'd like to hear AJ belt out the Salty Dog Blues, Dooley, Doin' My Time, Don't Give Your Heart to a Rambler, Widow Maker, Chulk Up another One, Blue Night, How Mountain Girls Can Love, Love Come Home, etc than that original stuff.

----------


## M.Marmot

> Having now listened to the _Long Hard Road_ example, I think I'm going to give AJ's album a pass.  It is good music and has a nice sound, but it just doesn't "do it" for me.  Maybe I just can't mentally separate his voice from country music enough to appreciate it in bluegrass.  It sounds a little too polished and generic to me.  I find nothing 'incorrect' about the execution, but it just lacks ... I dunno ... character?  Soul?  The timing on the vocals sounds a little too regimented; I think he missed the opportunity to inject some flavor into the vocals and performed it a little too close to perfect, if that makes any sense.  It sounds like he was reading the lyrics from a piece of sheet music, not singing from the heart.  
> 
> Like I said, it's good music.  But I don't find it particularly worthy of awards, when I put it side-by-side with what I've heard from a bunch of other talented bluegrass up-and-comers.


Have you any idea who was the producer on the album?
Would it be someone who understands the best way to record bluegrass?

If the player list is anything to go by, the producer/sound engineer should be top drawer too, but i wonder if they come from a country or bluegrass background? It might effect the overall sound,no?

----------


## bobby bill

> Hate to disagree with you Mike, but that's precisely what Michael Jordan did!...He paid his dues in Minor league baseball when he didn't have to!...I rest my case on that one!


In order to rest your case, I think you need to tell us a little about the major league contract MJ turned down so he could humbly pay his dues in the minors.  Hitting a major league curve ball is a little different than changing musical genres.

This whole dues-paying business seems a little silly to me.  You either play good music or you don't.  You would think people on this forum would know that what is popular and wins awards on TV is seldom good music.  It is just good business.

----------


## DataNick

> In order to rest your case, I think you need to tell us a little about the major league contract MJ turned down so he could humbly pay his dues in the minors.  Hitting a major league curve ball is a little different than changing musical genres.


It was a multi-million dollar NBA contract with the associated endorsements that MJ "walked away" from at the peak of his career!

The changing of genres was going from being an NBA player to try and be a MLB player! If you think that there is considerable more degree of dificulty in crossing musical genres than that, then we're on a different page my friend!

In the history of sports there are a HANDFUL of guys who have been able to do that. The music industry is littered with people "crossing-over" to make different genre records (Gospel, ad-nauseum, etc.)

Out!

----------


## Tobin

> Have you any idea who was the producer on the album?
> Would it be someone who understands the best way to record bluegrass?
> 
> If the player list is anything to go by, the producer/sound engineer should be top drawer too, but i wonder if they come from a country or bluegrass background? It might effect the overall sound,no?


I've no clue on who produced it or what their background is.  Just going by what I hear.  But again, it's not really that I find anything "wrong" with it.  From a production standpoint, it sounds fine to me.  But from an artistic standpoint, it just lacks a certain depth.  It's hard to put into words.

----------


## randygwatkins

I actually prefer a few of the others, like this one:

----------


## bobby bill

> It was a multi-million dollar NBA contract with the associated endorsements that MJ "walked away" from at the peak of his career!


So MJ was in the minors not because he was humbly paying his dues but because he was not offered a major league contract.  That was my point.  It would be silly for AJ to gratuitously "pay his dues" when he, in fact, has been offered a "major league contract."




> The changing of genres was going from being an NBA player to try and be a MLB player! If think that there is considerable more degree of dificulty in crossing musical genres than that, then we're on a different page my friend!


Let's just say I must not have expressed myself clearly.  I think there are are very few things in the world more difficult than hitting a major league curve ball.  My point was that MJ wasn't in the minors because he was humbly paying his dues in honor and respect for the grand history of baseball - he was in the minors because it takes some folks half a career to really figure out how to hit.




> In the history of sports there are a HANDFUL of guys who have been able to do that. The music industry is littered with people "crossing-over" to make different genre records (Gospel, ad-nauseum, etc.)


And . . . so?  (and I never heard of the ad-nauseum genre, but it sounds interesting)  I do not really see how this relates to your dues-paying requirement unless you are just stretching to find something you can call a third strike.  If Willie wants to make a reggae record (and I love Willie, but not so much reggae Willie) does he really need to start on the streets of Jamaica?  To serve what point?

Now appealing balls and strikes will get me tossed, so I'll just walk back to the dugout.

----------

padawan

----------


## DataNick

Dues paying per crossing over was in relation to the awards/recognition, NOT making a record...which a lot of folks in this thread are continually transfixed on...not arguing a right to record whatever you want to.

In re: to MJ being in the minors, no in his position, he didn't have to (could've hired private hitting & fielding gurus, played in exhibitions at his convience, etc)

We'll just say we disagree, but there's no way that anyone can convince me otherwise, unless I heard it straight from the MLB players mouths, that MJ EARNED their respect cause he did it the RIGHT WAY.

I'm tired of this argument...no animosity on my part...

And if AJ isn't in it for the awards...if/when the IBMA bestows upon him their crowns, let him follow the Eagles example...not show up and refuse em'

Late!

----------

Gary Hedrick

----------


## Mike Bunting

> 3. I am sure that banjo sales and bluegrass have benefitted greatly by Steve Martin sitting down with his banjo and talking to Leno about it.


He presents his yearly banjo award on the Letterman show. I've never seen him on Leno's show who seldom has any relevant music.

----------


## padawan

> Hate to disagree with you Mike, but that's precisely what Michael Jordan did!...He paid his dues in Minor league baseball when he didn't have to!...I rest my case on that one!


  I respect MJ for doing that but can you imagine what would happen if Alan Jackson tried playing small venues?   There's not really a good way for someone with his fan base to downgrade without plastic surgery and even then, as soon as he opened his mouth to sing he'd give himself away and folks would start calling everyone they knew, guess who's here and in about 30 minutes the fire marshal would have to shut the place down.  (ok, maybe I'm exaggerating, but not by much)

  Besides, MJ changed jobs completely. Alan just changed the style of his current job. 
I think its Apples and oranges.

  ...now maybe if AJ had suddenly taken up harpsichord or percussion it would be a fair comparison.

----------


## padawan

> I'm feeling that way too.  Too many original songs that just aren't bluegrass enough to be bluegrass even with the right band. I would much rather have heard 2 or 3 originals and the rest old bluegrass standards with those guys really shining on the breaks.
> I'd like to hear AJ belt out the Salty Dog Blues, Dooley, Doin' My Time, Don't Give Your Heart to a Rambler, Widow Maker, Chulk Up another One, Blue Night, How Mountain Girls Can Love, Love Come Home, etc than that original stuff.


 I'm starting to think that all AJ had to do was put a bluegrass song or two (here and there) on some of his albums over the last 20 some odd years and we wouldn't be having this conversation.  He wouldn't be "new" to the genre.

 For what its worth I would also like to hear him do Salty Dog and Mountain Girls etc.

----------


## DataNick

> I respect MJ for doing that but can you imagine what would happen if Alan Jackson tried playing small venues?   There's not really a good way for someone with his fan base to downgrade without plastic surgery and even then, as soon as he opened his mouth to sing he'd give himself away and folks would start calling everyone they knew, guess who's here and in about 30 minutes the fire marshal would have to shut the place down.  (ok, maybe I'm exaggerating, but not by much)
> 
>   Besides, MJ changed jobs completely. Alan just changed the style of his current job. 
> I think its Apples and oranges.
> 
>   ...now maybe if AJ had suddenly taken up harpsichord or percussion it would be a fair comparison.


I think what would happen is what happens everytime Ricky Scaggs plays out, or when MJ played in the minors (sold out stadiums, standing room only, etc)...I think AJ could handle it, and THAT would be good for bluegrass...BTW, thank you for keeping civility in your tone...sometimes I get a little worked up; don't mean to come off heavy handed, but I think (and that's the operative word) that the example of MJ closes the lid on this one...AGAIN for AWARDS, NOT making a record!

He can make all the "Bluegrass" records he wants to, but until he gets in with the rank and file like everybody else, I don't think he'll be respected; because a shortcut to awards fame in their genre is disrespecting them...Your own post states that point of view: You Respect MJ "for doing that"...touche my friend!

----------


## Mike Bunting

Well, after listening to some tunes off this cd I have to say that songs like Blue Ridge Mountain Song sound like songs from the Nashville song mill with "bluegrass" instrumentation. nothing in it for me at all. all the good country music is coming from Austin anyhow.

----------


## randygwatkins

> Well, after listening to some tunes off this cd I have to say that songs like Blue Ridge Mountain Song sound like songs from the Nashville song mill with "bluegrass" instrumentation. nothing in it for me at all. all the good country music is coming from Austin anyhow.


Perfect, then we can quit worrying about him winning an award and move along!   :Smile: 

p.s. don't forget about Stillwater in addition to Austin!

----------

Mike Bunting

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Perfect, then we can quit worrying about him winning an award and move along!  
> 
> p.s. don't forget about Stillwater in addition to Austin!


Yes, if only  :Frown: 
What's coming out of Stllwater?

----------


## randygwatkins

Check out the Turnpike Troubadours...red dirt/TX/cajun etc, all mixed into one!

----------


## Ivan Kelsall

While we're discussing Alan Jackson's (possible) assault on the Bluegrass world,have you heard J.D.Crowe's CD 'My Home Ain't In The Hall Of Fame',complete with pedal steel guitar & drums etc.. I've seen no adverse comments re.J.D's excursion into what i can only think of as semi-Bluegrass 'pop' music,so why should we really care what Alan Jackson does ?. He won't persuade lovers of trad. Bluegrass music to travel his path,but as has been said,he might just bring new folk to Bluegrass festivals that otherwise might not have come, & expose them to the 'real stuff'. Re. awards - if you don't like it,don't vote for it !,
                                                                                                                               Ivan :Wink:

----------

Timbofood

----------


## Wolfboy

> There is no other musical genre where the headline act can be found rubbing shoulders with the common man by playing music together in a jam, because of the Love for the music!


Whoa, hold it. Two words: Irish trad.

That's all...back to the topic at hand...

----------


## AlanN

> While we're discussing Alan Jackson's (possible) assault on the Bluegrass world,have you heard J.D.Crowe's CD 'My Home Ain't In The Hall Of Fame',complete with pedal steel guitar & drums etc.. I've seen no adverse comments re.J.D's excursion into what i can only think of as semi-Bluegrass 'pop' music,so why should we really care what Alan Jackson does ?.


Invalid comparison, buddy, apples to oranges. Crowe has always been grass, sometimes with embellishments.

----------


## DataNick

> Whoa, hold it. Two words: Irish trad.
> 
> That's all...back to the topic at hand...


My Bad Wolfboy!

That's great if Irish Trad is that way!

Carry On My Brother, I stand corrected!

----------


## f5loar

> Invalid comparison, buddy, apples to oranges. Crowe has always been grass, sometimes with embellishments.


 Yeah no comparsions to anything Crowe may have done in his long career.  He started out bluegrass and then went Country for a few albums/songs but sure came back with solid Bluegrass.  AJ is the opposite.  Never sang the Salty Dog Blues his whole life and dabs in Bluegrass and will go back to Country.  No need to point out all the experimentation in to bluegrass music.  If you do you have to bring up the electric guitar, drums and organ in Monroe's mid 50's recordings.  And then there was Jim & Jesse riding high into Berry Country and who can forget The Charles River Valley Boys with Joe Val doing an bang up job beating out an all Beatles songs album in the mid60's.  And who would have guessed Flatt & Scruggs doing Dylan songs in the late 60's.  My favorite is when Jim & Jesse and the Va. boys helped out rocker Jim Morrision in the Doors LP Soft Parade.  And don't add in Jerry Garcia who remained a certified DeadHead until the day he died even though he found time to record and tour and all bluegrass band with Old&In the Way in mid 70's. These guys didn't get any awards for their strays.

----------

Timbofood

----------


## DataNick

> ...These guys didn't get any awards for their strays.


+1: Thank You f5loar!

No rush to the red carpet awards!...That's the thrust of this whole thread, *not making a record in a different genre but accepting/going for the awards in that genre!* and I repeat, AJ can prove us all wrong by taking a cue from The Eagles when they won the grammy for "Hotel California"...No call/no show, refuse the award!

Late!

----------


## J.Albert

Let Mr. Jackson go to work for Doyle Lawson for a year as his lead singer. If he can hack that, he's "paid his bluegrass dues"!

Alternative scenario:
Mr. Jackson should make himself available to a dozen or so "medium-sized" bluegrass festivals next season. Places like Joe Val, etc., at "the going rate of pay" for a nationally-touring BG band. Again, pay the dues by working the shows.

Aside:
I don't think I'd ever actually heard Alan perform until the topic came up here he had released a bluegrass album. If [a couple of years ago] Mr. Jackson had walked up to me at a festival and said, "Hi, I'm Alan Jackson", my greeting would have been, "hello, what kind of music do you play?"    :Smile:

----------

DataNick

----------


## Wolfboy

> My Bad Wolfboy!
> 
> That's great if Irish Trad is that way!
> 
> Carry On My Brother, I stand corrected!


No worries - just thought you might not know, and I agree, that direct contact is one of the magical things about both bluegrass and ITM. (There may be other genres like that too, for all I know - Cajun? Blues? Gypsy jazz? - others can comment there; bluegrass and ITM are the two genres I have personal experience with in that regard.)

The first time I met Martin Hayes, who was already a major headliner in the Irish trad world, was when he wandered into the regular Monday night session at Nanny O'Brien's Pub in Washington DC after finishing a concert elsewhere in town. He played with us the rest of the night, just another fiddler in the session, politely declining the inevitable shouts of "Ah, come on, Martin, give us a tune on your own there," until the very end of the night when he finally gave in and silenced the pub with an amazingly beautiful solo.

OK, end of digression, back on topic...tell me again who Alan Jackson is? 

(*lol* - just kidding)

----------

DataNick

----------


## padawan

> ...tell me again who Alan Jackson is?


  From what I've hear he's some bluegrass picker/singer/songwriter with a really good band behind him.

----------


## Tom Coletti

At this point, I honesty hope with every fiber in my being that Alan Jackson wins the award, because Rob Ickes and Adam Steffey and all of the other guys on this record can smile and be happy knowing that they were invited to work on this project and that they played fantastically on an album that climbed to the top despite all of the disdain of sad people with wifi.

And enough of this "due paying" bullschmergel!

If Alan, recognizing the skill and talent of the players that backed him, took the time to personally thank each and every one of them in the last track of the album, then you know that he will surely pay all of them THEIR dues in the end.

--Tom

----------


## Ivan Kelsall

Alan / F5 - I don't think my comparison was at all invalid re.the musical instrument line up on the JD CRowe CD. Bill Monroe didn't think Dobro's were a valid Bluegrass instrument & i don't think that Pedal Steel guitars & drums are valid - my personal opinion of course. JD's always been a great favourite of mine ever since the New South days,but adding non-Bluegrass instruments doesn't do his 'main brand' of music any favours. In fact the cover of the CD shows the band dressed in Cowboy gear,maybe a nod in the direction that the music takes. Maybe it was made in an effort to appeal to non-Bluegrass traditionalists,a sort of reverse to what Alan Jackson might be attempting ?,
                                                Ivan

----------


## AlanN

We know JD did drums and steel on occasion. Heck, he used piano on the seminal ROU-0044, an LP often cited as THE album/group. My Home Ain't In...was with Keith Whitley, already full-blown country leaning at that point. And that was done during the era of Willie, Waylon, David Allen Coe, the outlaw period.

What JD's forays did not do was override the bluegrass, was still there in force. And as banjo man, he could remain somewhat behind the scene, directing his lead singer to do what he wanted. 

Comparing what JD did back then to what AJ is doing today has little merit, imo.

----------


## f5loar

[QUOTE=TheMandolineer;1210694]At this point, I honesty hope with every fiber in my being that Alan Jackson wins the award, because Rob Ickes and Adam Steffey and all of the other guys on this record can smile and be happy knowing that they were invited to work on this project and that they played fantastically on an album that climbed to the top despite all of the disdain of sad people with wifi.
And I bet Blue Highway and Boxcars, Lonesome River Band and Don Rigsby band plus others will appreciated being bumped out of a voting slot to make room for Alan Jackson so one member from each of those bands does not get the recognition they deserve.  It's Alan that get's the trophy, not the backing band members.  But hey, Alan already thanking them in the middle of "Blue Moon of KY" on the CD and I'm sure all of them got paid their standard union studio wages for their hard earned efforts for Mr. Jackson.

----------


## M.Marmot

Where do you pay these dues that everyone is talking about?

Is it more than the $75 that the IBMA is asking for for a year - i'm sure Mr. Jackson could afford that, maybe he could possibly even scrape together the $1000 for a lifetime membership - would that make you happy?

Or are these dues some sort of rite of passage - 'sorry Mr. Jackson but if you want to be accepted as one of us you'll have to have the official scars - have you seen "A Man Called Horse? Much the same idea but you'll be hung up with banjo strings'

And what about those 'blackleg' bluegrass musicians who played on his album - how did they manage to sneak pass the picket lines? 
There are picket lines, right? Lines of honest due paying bluegrass players, who were brought up on the less than a hundred year old 'tradition' of listening and learning from mass produced records?
Or is it that these blackleg session musicians have well paid their dues and are excused their trespass? 

Which side are you on boys - which side are you on?

I mean if they just refused to take part and manned the line like everyone else then there would be no album... but no, they buckled, took the dirty dollar and now they might miss out on a plastic trophy... for shame, we all know that collecting plastic trophies is what it's all about. 

I mean, that's where all those dues go, no? To make plastic trophies and mutual back scratchers?

Or is it that Mr. Jackson has every right to make a Bluegrass album, for any reason, even cynical money making ones?
Is it that if he wins an award or two from the IBMA then its a problem that should be taken up with the IBMA via participating in and paying for its membership?
Is it also that any musician appearing on that album will more than likely have more exposure as a professional session player than if they had not taken part? A move that can be judged as cynical as anything else if they don't believe in the project.
Is it that the Bluegrass community pick more needless quarrels than the number of ants on a Tennessee anthill? 

I don't know if the sort of needless but impassioned ire expressed in this thread (and in a surprising amount like it in the archives) can be described as nerd rage - Damn it Jim, i'm no doctor - but it certainly come close.

I admire your passion fellas but i can't say i understand your fight here - anger is a power and all that - time to renew your dues with the IBMA and start some grass roots campaigning for an overhaul of their awards structures.

----------

Tom Coletti

----------


## padawan

> ...and I'm sure all of them got paid their standard union studio wages for their hard earned efforts for Mr. Jackson.


 Each of them could have said no to Alan and hung up the phone.  You are digging for something to be unhappy about on that one.

 Adam has a way to contact him on his website *and* he sells Skype lessons from there too.  Sign up for a lesson and at the end, ask him what he thought of Alan.  Then you'll know.

  ...*and* Adam will make a bit of scratch, which it sounds like you think he needs.
http://www.adamsteffey.com/ 

 :Mandosmiley:

----------

Tom Coletti

----------


## Mike Bunting

:Sleepy:

----------


## greg_tsam

What makes you guys think he even cares about awards, anyway?   :Chicken:

----------


## Mike Bunting

> What makes you guys think he even cares about awards, anyway?


The question is, why do any of us care about awards?

----------


## Russ Jordan

If interested to read Adam's feelings (very positive) on the Alan Jackson project: 

http://bluegrasstoday.com/adam-steff...-alan-jackson/

----------

padawan, 

Tom Coletti

----------


## Tom Coletti

> If interested to read Adam's feelings (very positive) on the Alan Jackson project: 
> 
> http://bluegrasstoday.com/adam-steff...-alan-jackson/


Finally, some more actual information! Thank you, Russ, for proving that first-hand accounts are much more reliable than gossip and thread feuds. 


Especially on-point from Adam Steffey:

    “I know that we have people in our music who are superstars at being annoyed by anything different, but I think bluegrass fans will really like it.

    If any of the songs can break onto country radio, it can only help everybody.

    I’m sort of like the Archie Bunker of bluegrass myself – old, jaded, and cynical about everything. But it was neat to be genuinely surprised by someone as real as Alan Jackson – there’s no cheese about him, nothing fake at all.”


So there you go. Have enough courage to just say that you don't like his music if you must. Any more criticisms aimed at his legitimacy are pretty much unsupportable at this point.

--Tom

----------


## f5loar

> What makes you guys think he even cares about awards, anyway?


Oh I don't know.......... maybe a guy who has already gotten 41 Platinum record awards plus 219 other awards just might want one more to make it an even 220.  You think?

----------


## Tom Coletti

> Oh I don't know.......... maybe a guy who has already gotten 41 Platinum record awards plus 219 other awards just might want one more to make it an even 220.  You think?


...

A new low, but that's not the biggest issue at this point.



I'm sensing a lot of mindless irrational spite and I don't see us staying afloat much longer. You have nothing in the way of an argument, nothing in the form of evidence, and--in such a long continuation of the same drivel over and over despite the multiple first-hand accounts that say otherwise--no further reason to keep butting heads with the reality that you are so determined to ignore... 

You almost seem hell-bent on painting Jackson as a cartoonishly evil character and I need to tell you that you are not only wrong but also making bluegrass and its patrons look extremely bad as a whole.

Those are big words coming from me, given my imprudent creation of what essentially became another "Monroe Sucks" thread, but the difference is that I learned from that experience to be a bit more open and accepting of different music and different tastes without tainting my own first impressions with distorted predispositions.

Sometimes you need to accept defeat before you end up like me: forever cynical and on half of the cafe's ignore lists.

--Tom

----------


## Mike Bunting

You are the one making all the noise, give it a rest.

----------


## f5loar

You seem to imply I can't prove Alan Jackson has 41 Platinum recordings and 219 other awards.  Ain't me boosting about it, it's Alan himself doing it on his on website under the "Awards". It's also his website that boost about how proud he is of taking the bluegrass road and intends to promote it.  Check his tour section and see what comes up.   I don't make up what I say here.  Others seem to do that just fine.  As far as Adam S. comments to the public about his involvement, I'm sure he is tickled pink to have been chosen by the chosen one to pick mandolin on this project.  I doubt seriously he has thought about his personal impact this will have on his band a year from now.  I'm just scared to death that David Lee Roth is going to "jump" back on the bluegrass train and head to Raleigh along with Jackson, Janie Frick, D. Bently and XXX.  Hummm......  Did I hear Cher was teaming up the Flamekeeper Band?

----------

dang, 

DataNick, 

Mike Bunting, 

William Smith

----------


## William Smith

Maybe Ice T, Ice Cube, Vanilla Ice, Eminem, Kayne West, etc.... Could break into bluegrass next? Throw some Hannah Montana twerkin all over the mandolin neck wouldn't that be great! That'll introduce a whole lot of new people into the music that we love and respect and will help it grow faster? The youngins sure would like it and the new artists on the scene can take the awards from all the current grass bands/individuals. The possibilities are endless.

----------

DataNick, 

f5loar, 

Mike Bunting

----------


## f5loar

I welcome 50 cents to the muleskinner blues and high lonesome sounds......... oh wait is he the one that got shot?  or is he the one in prison?  Which brings us to the question "If Elvis were alive today would he have done an all bluegrass album?"  Me thinks so! But Paul McCartney did have a hit playing a mandolin a few years ago and he has recorded an all acoustic version of "Blue Moon of Ky" so maybe (I'm keeping my fingers crossed) he will be our next emerging bluegrass artist. YEAH,YEAH,YEAH!

----------


## Tom Coletti

10... 9... 8...

----------


## Mike Bunting

Elvis Costello probably should have won something at IBMA a couple of years ago. He had some pretty good bluegrass cats with him then.

----------


## f5loar

Unlike AJ, Elvis failed to feature a banjo on his all acoustic unplugged Americania tour so he was not a serious contender for IBMA plus he didn't pay his IBMA membership dues.    Hey, don't blame me for this sinking ship.  I thought it sunk 5 pages ago.  I'm just trying to keep you and others from "drowning" in a "sea of heartaches" as Jimmy Gauderau would say!

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Unlike AJ, Elvis failed to feature a banjo on his all acoustic unplugged Americania tour so he was not a serious contender for IBMA plus he didn't pay his IBMA membership dues.    Hey, don't blame me for this sinking ship.  I thought it sunk 5 pages ago.  I'm just trying to keep you and others from "drowning" in a "sea of heartaches" as Jimmy Gauderau would say!


I wasn't nominating him or anything, don't think that it is grass any more than  that AJ fellow plays grass, but the band kills it. Compton plays a pure Monroe solo and Duncan fiddles up a storm. The whole band has gumption.

----------


## M.Marmot

> I wasn't nominating him or anything, don't think that it is grass any more than  that AJ fellow plays grass, but the band kills it. Compton plays a pure Monroe solo and Duncan fiddles up a storm. The whole band has gumption.


That was a solid line-up for Mr. Costello - what i liked about those two (?) albums of his is that it attempted to work with the bluegrass sound rather than trying to be bluegrass proper -if that makes sense. The songs and instrumentation were definitely tinged with southern flavour but it seems to me that there was no overt attempt to write 'bluegrass' material - they were Elvis Costello songs with an Americana setting.

(I can say the same thing for a recent album 'Honky Tonk' from French musician Sanseverino who kept to his own songwriting identity but again backed by instruments more readily associated with Bluegrass.)

While these albums do boast some sterling moments - they also highlighted for me the difficulty of working with Bluegrass instrumentation.

----------


## FLATROCK HILL

> While these albums do boast some sterling moments - they also highlighted for me the difficulty of working with Bluegrass instrumentation.


I think the difficulty comes from trying to force the square peg into the round hole.

----------


## M.Marmot

> I think the difficulty comes from trying to force the square peg into the round hole.


True, bluegrass players can't really play anything outside that patch of grass - no, hold back on the lynch- mob fellas i'm just kidding.

I think you're right to a degree - but mostly i think it is an underestimation on the part of the songwriters/arrangers of the difficulties of  working with the Bluegrass sound. 

But still i like that they try - square pegs into round holes? that's why we have nine pound hammers.

----------


## Tobin

> "If Elvis were alive today would he have done an all bluegrass album?"


I'm sure that if he did, he would name it _The Blue Suede Shoe Grass Album_.

----------


## greg_tsam

> .... oh wait is he the one that got shot?  or is he the one in prison?


That narrows it down, doesn't it.   :Grin: 




> True, bluegrass players can't really play anything outside that patch of grass - no, hold back on the lynch- mob fellas i'm just kidding.


I was already loading up the truck..

----------


## AlanN

Well, what Elvis does have is the recording of BMOK, which resulted in them powerful checks for the composer.

----------


## greg_tsam

I can't figure out if you're serious or pulling our legs, f5, but maybe a little of both.  Alan jackson is a great singer and successful but when I listened to that track/video posted I just heard Alan Jackson singing as always with bluegrass instrumentation.  What was the difference bet. his country songs and that except for the banjo?

I like AJ, think it's fine for him to crossover (like I really care anyway) but I need to hear my tracks b/c I'm not convinced it's really bluegrass but more appropriately "hardly bluegrass" country.

----------


## M.Marmot

> I was already loading up the truck..


Thats the one good thing about upsetting a bluegrass mob you'll always be assured of some good chase music

----------

greg_tsam

----------


## Tobin

> I can't figure out if you're serious or pulling our legs, f5, but maybe a little of both.  Alan jackson is a great singer and successful but when I listened to that track/video posted I just heard Alan Jackson singing as always with bluegrass instrumentation.  What was the difference bet. his country songs and that except for the banjo?


A buddy of mine was playing some more of this album for me over the weekend (he downloaded it from iTunes).  That was my impression exactly.  It sounded like typical Alan Jackson music, but with a dobro in place of the usual electric steel guitar and the addition of a banjo and mandolin.  The harmony singing was all "behind" his voice, not equal with it.  As if they were just singing backup on the Alan Jackson Show, instead of giving full weight to the harmony singing (I actually do blame the producer for that one, not Alan).  While it all had a nice sound, it just didn't sound like bluegrass to me.

It's weird, because I really respect Alan Jackson for many reasons, including his singing ability and his songwriting skill.  But you can't just change the words to something about the mountains, add a banjo, and call it bluegrass.

----------

DataNick, 

f5loar, 

Mike Bunting

----------


## padawan

> Thats the one good thing about upsetting a bluegrass mob you'll always be assured of some good chase music


  :Laughing: 
 Now that there is funny. 
 I don't care who you are.

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## randygwatkins

It has crossed my mind that if Ronnie Bowman had been singing lead on these songs, with this band, there would not be a peep from the Bluegrass Police about how it's "not bluegrass".  Perhaps part of the problem with this specific example is AJ's distinctive voice which immediately brings to mind his country songs.

I thought in recent years the genre was accepting of a broader spectrum of music that can be called "bluegrass".  Perhaps I need to have it explicitly defined, as does Lou Reid, Alison Krauss, the Greencards, Crooked Still, Cadillac Sky, Blue Highway, the Stringdusters, Nickel Creek, perhaps Della Mae and so on.  I've seen and enjoyed almost all of these bands at "bluegrass only" events and have to say everyone there enjoyed them.

As we've already proven in this thread, people have different ideas of what "bluegrass" is, according to their own personal tastes, and I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else to be swayed to their side, just wanted to throw out some more food for thought.  




> A buddy of mine was playing some more of this album for me over the weekend (he downloaded it from iTunes).  That was my impression exactly.  It sounded like typical Alan Jackson music, but with a dobro in place of the usual electric steel guitar and the addition of a banjo and mandolin.  The harmony singing was all "behind" his voice, not equal with it.  As if they were just singing backup on the Alan Jackson Show, instead of giving full weight to the harmony singing (I actually do blame the producer for that one, not Alan).  While it all had a nice sound, it just didn't sound like bluegrass to me.
> 
> It's weird, because I really respect Alan Jackson for many reasons, including his singing ability and his songwriting skill.  But you can't just change the words to something about the mountains, add a banjo, and call it bluegrass.

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## f5loar

Had AJ thought to record this in the normal bluegrass traditional 3 part harmony with all 3 parts equal in volume, vs just being background Opry singers it would get more bluegrass praise.  Personally I'd like to here those 3 guys do some Osborne songs but had you asked AJ to do that he would gently respond with "sorry I'm not doing no Donnie and Marie songs".   :Laughing:

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## AlanN

> Had AJ thought to record this in the normal bluegrass traditional 3 part harmony with all 3 parts equal in volume, vs just being background Opry singers it would get more bluegrass praise.  Personally I'd like to here those 3 guys do some Osborne songs but had you asked AJ to do that he would gently respond with "sorry I'm not doing no Donnie and Marie songs".


Too wise  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

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## randygwatkins

I guess The Dillards (There Is A Time) isn't "bluegrassy" enough for you F5.  Clearly the audience hates it too  :Smile: 








> Had AJ thought to record this in the normal bluegrass traditional 3 part harmony with all 3 parts equal in volume, vs just being background Opry singers it would get more bluegrass praise.  Personally I'd like to here those 3 guys do some Osborne songs but had you asked AJ to do that he would gently respond with "sorry I'm not doing no Donnie and Marie songs".

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## f5loar

That video only showed me that if you got a really good bluegrass band you don't need a guitar player.  Notice how Jackson continues to stop playing. Even stopped cold during Sammy's banjo break.  As far as blending the vocal harmonies that can be heard here, that would be because the sound man at the Station Inn is use to normal bluegrass harmony singing and did not adjust to match the studio blend.  And audience liking it? Really?  I think you put up the wrong video for that answer.  On this one after Jackson tells Opry announcer Eddie Stubbs that he hopes he recorded an album the bluegrass people will like, Eddie quickly says "I think these people just like to hear Alan Jackson music! "  Kinda hard for a room filled with 80% Jackson diehard fans to not like anything he does.  They were behind him for the gospel train, they will stand by their man for the Bluegrass Express and ride with him all the way to Raleigh next Sept.  Play this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...euB4Lmpg#t=157

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## f5loar

_post removed. violates forum posting guidelines._

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## randygwatkins

I'm not sure what his daughter's arrest has to do with the subject but as the "approver of all bluegrass music" I bow to your judgement.  If he comes to Texas and you want to check him out I'll buy you a ticket and we'll go together  :Wink: 






> _comment removed. violates forum posting guidelines_

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## f5loar

No need for me to travel that far.  He's already booked for Merlefest only a short ride from me and I'll get to see him again in Raleigh next Sept. at IBMA FANFAIR SHOWCASE RAMBLE at the RedHat Ampitheater.

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## randygwatkins

Sweet, maybe I'll make it out there and we can sit together  :Smile:

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## Herbm55

> _comment removed. violates forum posting guidelines_


I'm not sure what point you are trying to validate, except that you are grumpy.   :Smile:

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randygwatkins

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## mandolirius

> _comment removed. violates forum posting guidelines_


I cannot believe the latitude you are being given with this thread. You're not only toeing the line, you're surfing on it. Impressive.

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## Scott Tichenor

This topic has now moved into an unacceptable area we will not host. If it moves into other discussions be warned, membership privileges will be immediately removed without warning if you are unable to adhere to forum posting guidelines.

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