# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Horrendous Spelling  No Mando content  But Cafe content

## nickster60

I am frequently corrected for my spelling errors which I take in stride. I know that spelling and grammar aren't my strong suit. This may come as a shock but I am a college graduate and squeaked through in the English department(not shocking). I am now in my 50's and have decided I would like to remedy the situation. I have re-enrolled in college for an additional degree. The course I am taking  requires  30 essays and each test is also an essay. I think that ought to learn me or at least force me to work on my grammar and spelling.

Thank You for the gentle jabs over the years.

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## Bob Clark

Congratulations on making that big step.  Learning at any age is really beneficial.  I hope you find it highly satisfying on a number of different levels.

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## DHopkins

Let me know if you need some help 'cause English was my goodest subject.

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## stevedenver

Well, I don't know about you, but I have become lazy regarding typing accuracy.
I simply dash things off.  No capitalization, minimal punctuation. A self created type of shorthand conversation, if you will.

My spelling is usually great, but my level of care, in proof reading, abysmal. Perhaps worse still, I don't see errors as readily on screen as I otherwise would on paper.

There's something about these forum boards as well as non business emails that brings this out in me.

This post took more effort!!! LOL

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## montana

One thing about using an ipad it try's to anticipate your spelling and if you don't check it spells something you didn't want.

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Cecily_Mandoliner, 

hank

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## JeffD

Nickster that is great. Another adventure begins!

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## billhay4

I hope the spelling and grammar lead you to the joys of expressing yourself through writing and reading.
Have fun.
Bill

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## jso

Ironically, there are already three spelling or grammatical errors in this thread! They might have been deliberate, of course. :Smile:

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## journeybear

I resemble that remark.  :Redface:  It's my years as an editor and decades as a songwriter - I'm very detail-oriented regarding speeling, punc'tuation, and grammar (wish I could have figured out a way to insert a concise grammatical error into that sentence, but since I'm trying to stay on point (something I really try to do (and I do mean try, because sometimes I tend to lose focus (and when I mean sometimes, I really mean more often than I care to admit (which is not to say that I won't admit it when called on the floor about an error (though I think most of the time I catch errors before posting (but I have no problem with going back and editing if I see I have mistyped something or later realize I have posted something altogether erroneous (after all, these posts aereup here for a really long time (and by that, I mean forever, or until we run out of electricity and have to go back to talking to each other in person))))))))). I've actually dialed back my willingness to take people to task on such matters, since I feel meaning and content are more important than style points - that is, what one is saying is more than how he or she is saying it - but when errors impede clarity and accuracy, I might still pipe up. Or if, as in yesterday's example, someone has erred in a humorous way, I find it nearly irresistible to make a joke. I just can't resist a good set-up. I do try to keep it lighthearted - respecting other's feelings is paramount to me - but if I overdid it, I apologize. On the other hand, if my offhand remark inspired you to go on your quest of learning and self-improvement, I take all the credit.  :Wink: 

That said, I think what we run into a lot is related to what stevedenver said - many people just dash things off. I think it's natural to want to type and send as fast as we speak, even though that is darned near impossible. Most people can't type that fast, and also, one's thoughts reformulate during the time it takes to type so that what one has originally want to say transforms by the time one has finished typing it. (Ever notice how hard it is to go back and retype a post that has somehow been deleted? Boy, it's tough! And it will come out differently every time.) I swear, if I had known in 7th Grade how much time I would be spending merrily, madly typing, I would have applied myself more in typing class. (Yes, you young'uns, we had such awful things back in the day ...)

I think that what it comes down to is checking posts before sending. Most of the time this form of communication is not time-critical, but since it is more or less permanent, it's wise to make sure what you're saying is what you meant to say, and that the basic rules that apply are being followed.




> One thing about using an ipad it try's to anticipate your spelling and if you don't check it spells something you didn't want.


Same with smart phones, as I have recently discovered. I always try to check before sending.




> Ironically, there are already three spelling or grammatical errors in this thread! They might have been deliberate, of course.


Ironically, hell! Predictably!  :Laughing:

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billhay4, 

David Watson, 

stevedenver

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## bratsche

JB, I think you closed your parentheses one too many times, or else it was intentional, or I'm going blind.  (Well, that last bit is true  enough, unfortunately!)  LOL

bratsche

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## jesserules

One especially annoying mistake is the misuse of apostrophe's.

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AubreyK, 

Austin Bob, 

Mike Bunting

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## mandolinlee

journeybear -
I once quit reading a book about Bluegrass music because I found one sentence that contained over 90 words.
Your post exceeded that amount by 50+ words and I read every one of them.
Congratulations!
Lee

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Jim

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## DPrager

I used to couldnt' spell enjineer and now I are won.

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## bigskygirl

Good for you, I'm not sure I could go back to school at this point.

I've always been very good at spelling, grammar was what always got me all through school....but that don't make me no never mind.

However, iPad's anticipating my spelling/meaning has led to some pretty funny, sometimes bizarre results when I'm typing something.  

I has to make sure I go back a retread it carefully and sometimes I'm throw off andnap even sure what's was trying today.....

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## journeybear

> JB, I think you closed your parentheses one too many times, or else it was intentional, or I'm going blind.  (Well, that last bit is true  enough, unfortunately!)  LOL


Darn! I wanted to get my error just right!  :Laughing:

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## Mark Wilson

> One especially annoying mistake is the misuse of apostrophe's.


Ouch's

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Jim

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## Ellen T

I've always been a bit of a nitpicker about spelling and grammar, but I notice that as I have gotten older, words that I could spell automatically all my life I now must think about as I spell them.  This happens more on the computer than in long-hand, so part of it must be deteriorating brain-eye-hand coordination.  I assume I concentrate a little more when I write in long-hand.

These types of annoying little brain quality-control issues are what made me re-start the mandolin after many years; I thought it might help with memory and physical dexterity.  Unfortunately, I can't remember if it's working...

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## stevedenver

pawf p;.[-o9ijd opi,
out .oij poij  
pon poncph!

don't you agree

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## bratsche

> I've always been a bit of a nitpicker about spelling and grammar, but I notice that as I have gotten older, words that I could spell automatically all my life I now must think about as I spell them.  This happens more on the computer than in long-hand, so part of it must be deteriorating brain-eye-hand coordination.


I have the smae issue, except for me, it's always been liek that on teh computer, despite havinmg computers since 1987 or so, and I've never been able to learn to touch-type.  Even when I look at hte keyboard, unless I really slow down, I will fat finger keys left and right and cmoe up with a lot of sdylexic spellings because my fingres get out of sync.  But that's ironically only wehn typing, not when playing instruments.

(The above is the kind of stuff I routinely have to preview and correct before hitting the "post" button.)

bratsche

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Ellen T, 

Jim, 

stevedenver

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## journeybear

At least here the program lets you know when you've typed a word not in its dictionary, and right-clicking on the underlined error gives a few suggestions for correct spelling. This is a very useful feature, albeit incomplete. And of course, as with any spell check function, there is no context check. That is, a correctly spelled but incorrectly used word will not send up any red flags. As with car accidents, the part that causes the most problems is the nut behind the wheel.  :Wink:

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## Mike Bunting

Good on you, Nickster, it is always good to challenge oneself. Always good to remember this one.



P.S.   Advise is a verb, advice is the noun. I think that this the most common error I see on this list.

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## Randi Gormley

I remember when I applied for my current job, I had to take a spelling test. Who does that any more? 

Congrats on going back to college -- my youngest just graduated with a degree in English and she had massive essays and other papers due and she used to shoot them my way to give them a second read-through. Sometimes you need a fresh set of eyes to find stuff you overlook, especially when you're typing on a computer. I'd recommend turning off the spellcheck on your word (or whatever) program for a first draft if you're brave enough. Consider it like riding a bike without training wheels. it's a leap of faith, but I find it worth it in the end. Just a suggestion.

(Addendum: if you're looking for short cuts, there's "a rat" in separate and accommodate has enough space to accommodate two c's and two m's)

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## GKWilson

I say turn 'ON' the spell check, just start typing, and don't proof read.
Of course you might find later that you were discussing 'mangos' as
I did last week. :Redface: 

Good luck nickster and have fun.
Gary

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## nickster60

I have been enjoying my journey back to college. I have always had very little trouble expressing myself, as some on the Cafe could readily attest too. It would nice to not make so many mistakes. I wasn't offended by any corrections that have been made over the years. Thanks for the well wishes.

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## journeybear

Oh good! Whew!  :Whistling:  Because I have a big mouth, about the same size as my foot, if you know what I mean.  :Wink:

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## jso

> At least here the program lets you know when you've typed a word not in its dictionary, and right-clicking on the underlined error gives a few suggestions for correct spelling. This is a very useful feature, albeit incomplete.


Of course, those of us who write _English_ English have to teach the spellchecker new words from time to time...   :Smile:

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Mike Bunting

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## Jeff Hildreth

Observation:

If you turn on "spellcheck", you cannot learn from your mistakes.

I am guilty of thinking fast and typing poorly.

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## David Watson

Great attitude! I am constantly reminded that the language we call "English" is constantly evolving and so should we. Good luck.

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## David Watson

Great job!! I am in awe of your prowess in writing (?) that reply. a great job of knowing your enemy. I salute you.

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## kenny boy

Good luck. I try not to post I can think what i have in my mind . But after 2 strokes in 10 yrs  my fingers can keep up with the mind. So try not brother all you nice folks.

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## Ellen T

> Good luck. I try not to post I can think what i have in my mind . But after 2 strokes in 10 yrs  my fingers can keep up with the mind. So try not brother all you nice folks.


Oh, kenny boy, please post more.  Many of us are dealing with some sort of mental/physical glitches, please don't let that stop you.

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## DHopkins

"A lot" is two words but "allot" is one.

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## Larry Simonson

I was wanting to be a biologist but couldn't spell DNA.

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## Pete Jenner

I don't know what the big deal is - English is such an easy language.

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bratsche, 

Timbofood

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## Denny Gies

All the bestest to yu Nickster.

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## DHopkins

I believe we speak "American," not because I'm patriotic but because it's somewhat different than that spoken in England.  "Bonnets," "lifts, "loos" and "torches," for example, are all different between the countries.   Presentation, inflections and slang are also different.

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## tangleweeds

> Observation:
> 
> If you turn on "spellcheck", you cannot learn from your mistakes.
> 
> I am guilty of thinking fast and typing poorly.


I don't see this at all. In the age before computers, many years at top tier private schools failed to teach me to spell. 

Spellcheck only took a few years to teach me to spell just about everything. The real-time feedback worked miracles for me.

ETA: Kudos to the OP. If you're in a position to cover the tuition, going back to school as an adult is an excellent way to re-sharpen your brain. And one's priorities are ever so much straighter in one's head than at, say, 19...

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## 45ACP-GDLF5

Huked on fonics werked fer me!!!

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Jim, 

Susan H.

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## nickster60

Just a update I have received my first grades back, I an a A student so far.

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## journeybear

Good to hear. And good to see such an improvement.  :Wink:

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## fatt-dad

be guided by the Gunning Fog Index.  When you use pronouns, make sure they relate exclusively to the subject of the prior sentence.  Never use a pronoun in the opening sentence of a paragraph (the exception being, "This essay summarizes. . ."

Keep track of your use of the verb, "to be," which often (usually) reflect writing in the passive voice.

Reconsider beginning a sentence thusly:  "Based on my playing ability, I really should get a better instrument."  Just say, "I really should get a better instrument, based on my playing ability."  Trivial?  Well, maybe, but you want the reader to grasp the thought first, then what the thought is based on. (Did I mention not ending a sentence in a preposition?)

And, it's o.k. to start a sentence with, "And."

There's my brain dump.  But, no kidding, google the Gunning Fog Index and clip some text into it to get your score(s).

f-d

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## FLATROCK HILL

> Never use a pronoun in the opening sentence of a paragraph (the exception being, "This essay summarizes. . ."


Gotta admit, I've never heard that rule. AND, I guess I just broke it. 
For curiosity sake I took a quick glance at some earlier posts by fatt-dad... Never say "Never". :Smile:

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fatt-dad

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## journeybear

> Never use a pronoun in the opening sentence of a paragraph


Huh? So then, Dickens would fail this test? One of the best-known opening paragraphs in English literature:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way ... "

And also, Snoopy's favorite: "It was a dark and stormy night."

Or am I reading your post wrong?  :Confused:

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## mrmando

Well, Snoopy's favorite comes from Bulwer-Lytton, widely regarded as one of the worst English novelists of all time. As for Dickens, he was paid by the word and it shows. Yes, the opening of_ A Tale of Two Cities_ is highly memorable, but there are also the howlingly bad opening paragraphs of _Oliver Twist:_ 



> Among other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born; on a day and date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all events; the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this chapter.
> 
> For a long time after it was ushered into this world of sorrow and trouble, by the parish surgeon, it remained a matter of considerable doubt whether the child would survive to bear any name at all; in which case it is somewhat more than probable that these memoirs would never have appeared; or, if they had, that being comprised within a couple of pages, they would have possessed the inestimable merit of being the most concise and faithful specimen of biography, extant in the literature of any age or country.

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## fatt-dad

This is the problem with pronouns.

(I get the literary references.  You got me right.  I am an engineer and know nothing about literary style.  Just making geek reports.  James Joyce would certainly have an unmeasurable Fog Index.  Doesn't hurt to know the rules to clear writing in advance of breaking the rule.)

All in fun that is.  Really, I'm just a field geologist and geotechnical engineer. I do review a lot of unclear reports/contracts/proposals,etc. though.

I also know to dish it out you got to take it yourself, sigh. . .

f-d

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Cecily_Mandoliner

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## journeybear

> howlingly bad opening paragraphs ...


Yeah, buddy! And I had been thinking of starting a reading project to fill the slow time (there is much) at my day job, my thoughts leaning toward Dickens, of whose works I have read little (the exception being, as one might surmise, "A Tale Of Two Cities"  :Wink:  ). Now I'm not so sure, and am considering Mark Twain instead. Probably a lot more fun, anyway. Though I must point out that, since I first hatched this plan, I have gotten a laptop and rediscovered the wonders of the interweb, and all my friends thereto interconnected ....  :Whistling: 

To be perfectly honest. f-d, I haven't looked at the GFI. That just sounded so off, I had to pipe up. And as a matter of fact, I was a science major in college (physics, though my favorite classes were the two terms of geology taught by a former oil man) - science-art double major actually, till I flunked electronics.  :Frown:  The point is, I avoided disciplines such as history and literature, which involved a lot of reading and writing. Look at me now!  :Laughing:  It is to laugh.  :Laughing:  And so I do.  :Laughing:  But I came to this by trial and error and ultimately, thanks to a passion I discovered later on my own. Songwriting had been there all along, but then I got involved with journalism, first writing and then editing, so I developed an eye for locution and, of course, also malapropism. (Then there's that darn internal thesaurus ...  :Smile:  ) And, as I often aver, I'll take a passionate amateur over an indifferent professional any day.  :Cool: 

I'm looking forward to further reports of nickster's development. I wouldn't be surprised if soon enough he begins writing circles around all of us.  :Grin: 

Forgot to mention, Martin: it was the best of examples, it was the worst of examples ...  :Smile:

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fatt-dad

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## lflngpicker

Nickster60:  That is outstanding and I commend you for your desire to grow further and add to your already distinguished resume.  Good luck with your studies and keep us abreast of your progress.

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## bratsche

> And also, Snoopy's favorite: "It was a dark and stormy night."


Where the heck is the pronoun in that?   :Confused: 

bratsche

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## SincereCorgi

> Well, Snoopy's favorite comes from Bulwer-Lytton, widely regarded as one of the worst English novelists of all time.


That seems a bit unfair. Bulwer-Lytton was an enormously popular novelist in his era, he just isn't read much anymore. A 19th century Briton might very likely have mentioned him in the same breath as Dickens.

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## jesserules

> Huh? So then, Dickens would fail this test? One of the best-known opening paragraphs in English literature:
> 
> "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way ... "
> 
> And also, Snoopy's favorite: "It was a dark and stormy night."
> 
> Or am I reading your post wrong?


Those are not real pronouns.  They are _pleonastic pronouns_, required by Engish syntax.  Example: "It was raining."

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## journeybear

GAHHH!!! And I thought a pronoun is a pronoun is a pronoun is a pronoun. Thanks for the update, and here's the wiki:

_A dummy pronoun, also called an expletive pronoun or pleonastic pronoun, is a type of pronoun that adds no meaning but is required by syntax. An example is the "it" in "it is raining".

Dummy pronouns are used in most European languages such as English. Pronoun-dropping languages such as Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, and Turkish do not require dummy pronouns.

A dummy pronoun is used when a particular verb argument (or preposition) is nonexistent (it could also be unknown, irrelevant, already understood, or otherwise "not to be spoken of directly"), but when a reference to the argument (a pronoun) is nevertheless syntactically required. For instance, in the phrase, It is obvious that the violence will continue, it is a dummy pronoun, not referring to any agent. Unlike a regular pronoun of English, it cannot be replaced by any noun phrase (except for, rhetorically permitting, something like 'the state of affairs' or 'the fact of the matter'.)

The term dummy pronoun refers to the function of a word in a particular sentence, not a property of individual words. For example, it in the example from the previous paragraph is a dummy pronoun, but it in the sentence I bought a sandwich and ate it is a referential pronoun (referring to the sandwich).
_
And it goes on from there. There's more at "pronoun." It's safe to say these little words are more complex than I thought. It may be time to delve a little deeper into grammar and usage. That is, it may be, it may not. Who can say with certainty what it is that should be done?  :Confused:

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## bratsche

Ahh..  I thought the pronouns referred to in the Dickens were the we (x4).  I never thought of "it" in that context as a pronoun (of any real or dummy sort), hence my confusion...

bratsche

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## journeybear

"It" is a third person singular pronoun, as are "he" and "she." I had no idea there was more to "it" than that.

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## Bertram Henze

You can do without pleonastic (which dinosaur age was that?) pronouns if you must, though, without losing poetic beauty, as in "the night was dark and rainy" or "rain is falling thick and fast".  :Grin:

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## Petrus

Helpful tip: Sometimes you can make an interesting catch on eBay if you search for "manolin" instead of mandolin.  :Cool:

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## Pete Jenner

That's genius Petrus! These will look great on my workshop wall next to my Hogo plans.

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## journeybear

The man prolem with using those plans is once it's bilt, you'll have to larn how to ply a manolin. It's a lil difrent.  :Wink:

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## nickster60

It is ironic I have found many great deals on Ebay and Craigslist using the misspelling trick. Some I intentionally misspelled other were just me.

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tangleweeds

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## Misty Stanley-Jones

> Doesn't hurt to know the rules to clear writing in advance of breaking the rule.)
> 
> f-d


Works for music too, I guess.  :Smile:

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## Cecily_Mandoliner

> I have the smae issue, except for me, it's always been liek that on teh computer, despite havinmg computers since 1987 or so, and I've never been able to learn to touch-type.  Even when I look at hte keyboard, unless I really slow down, I will fat finger keys left and right and cmoe up with a lot of sdylexic spellings because my fingres get out of sync.  But that's ironically only wehn typing, not when playing instruments.
> 
> (The above is the kind of stuff I routinely have to preview and correct before hitting the "post" button.)
> 
> bratsche


I am relieved to know I am not the only one. I am a writer for my day job (technical stuff), and I find that my fingers get ahead of each other. All the right letters are there, but not in the right order... My high school typing teacher would be aghast!
In this day of instant communication, so rarely do people check their work. When you intend to text your friend, "Let of know..." but your text actually says "Let of know..." it gets confusing...

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## Tom C

My Collage learned me good English.

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## Petrus

> That's genius Petrus! These will look great on my workshop wall next to my Hogo plans.


I'm going to try to use them at some point. I actually just got them in the post today.  :Cool:

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Pete Jenner

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## FLATROCK HILL

> When you intend to text your friend, "Let of know..." but your text actually says "Let of know..." it gets confusing...


I know I'm confused. :Confused:

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## bratsche

> I know I'm confused.


You beat me to it...  

bratsche

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FLATROCK HILL

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## Pasha Alden

I am certainly confused!

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## journeybear

Oh, come on now! It's only English grammar. Couldn't be more straightforward, logical, and consistent!

 :Wink:

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## Pasha Alden

Yep. One house many houses One Mouse many mice. A few other examples? <big smile>

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## journeybear

Any? Too many! We could be here all day!!!  :Laughing:

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## Timbofood

Many folk try to write in the same manner they speak, which kin open a hyooge bukkit a wurmz.
My parents were both school teachers, I am certain they are both rolling in their graves over some of the things I have written.
With respect to iPad self correction, I sent a note to my wife about taking the trash to the curb and,it "corrected" that to Tracy! Curiouser and curiouser!

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