# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > CBOM >  18" Scale Eastwood Airline Electric Mandola - GDAE or DGBE?

## pekoe1111

I want one of these bad but many people say the 18"scale is too short for GDAE. Anyone try this?  Also wondering if the scale is too short for DGBE.  I'm just not interested in learning chords for the CGDA tuning. 

Thanks. BB

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## Mandobart

Too Short?  Maybe too long for standard mandolin strings tuned GDAE.  I have two OM's with a longer scale tuned GDAE no problems, but using OM strings tuned an octave below mandolin.  It's meant for standard CGDA mandola tuning, but I'd bet you could get nickel wound OM gage strings and tune it up GDAE.

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## mrmando

No, you'd need very heavy strings for the low G, and I bet they'd sound floppy no matter what. CGDA is the way.

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## allenhopkins

> ...I'm just not interested in learning chords for the CGDA tuning...


They're the same chord *fingerings,* they just have different values: _e.g._ the "D" chord on your mandolin is a "G" chord on the mandola.  So you start out doing a lot of "head transposition," but after you get used to playing mandola *and* mandolin, you don't have to think about it any more -- just comes automatically.  If you're considering "guitar" (DGBE) tuning anyway, you're already making it more complicated than CGDA tuning would be.

Or, go heavy, make an octave mandolin out of it; pretty short scale for an OM, but with beefy strings, might work.  Or, _get_ an octave mandolin (there's a couple solid-bodies in the classifieds now, including a Valdez for $750 that looks cool), and avoid dealing with a different tuning altogether.

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## rico mando

i think i tried it with single strings at .050/.040/.026/.015  but i did not like the tone .

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## mrmando

> i think i tried it with single strings at .050/.040/.026/.015  but i did not like the tone .


.050 isn't close to being heavy enough. I have an OM with a scale of about 20" ... for GDAE tuning I string it .056/.038/.024/.013. To get the right tension at 18" you'd have to go even heavier, probably .060/.042/.028/.016 or thereabouts. I just don't think it will work. There's another thread with a guy asking whether 480 mm is long enough for a mandocello. (It isn't.)

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## pekoe1111

Mine will get here on Monday and I'm wondering what strings come on it - round or flat?  I do want to try the GDAE tuning at least once, so I guess I'll do that with round bronze because that is least expensive - right?  Then I'll likely go to flat wounds when I find something I like z(they are more expensive, correct?

Thanks,

BB

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## rico mando

> I guess I'll do that with round bronze because that is least expensive - right?


Wrong . bronze is not magnetic. use inexpensive electric guitar strings

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## pekoe1111

What do you think of this tuning?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdQoH...e_gdata_player

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## rico mando

i did not make it past 2 seconds into the video beforte i had to turn it off

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## pekoe1111

Oh, c'mon. What's not to love about Banjo Bill?

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## pekoe1111

Ok, so I'm pretty clueless and can't even read music, so here's a basic question.  Someone said playing the same chord shapes just make different chords. So on my mandolin tuned GDAE, here are the shapes I play.  Can you tell me what these shapes make in CGDA?

2002 (D)

0023 (G)

0230 (C)

2200 (A)

1220 (E)

0220 (Em)

4002 (Am)

2001 (Dm)

2301 (F)

4022 (B7?)

Thanks!

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## pekoe1111

Oops...

5200 (Am)

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## allenhopkins

On a mandola tuned CGDA:
2002 = G
0023 = C
0230 = F
2200 = D

and so on.  I'm not going to continue with all the chords, because by now you're recognizing the pattern: it's the "4 chord" of whatever the mandolin fingering produces.  In other words: your making a "mandolin D" chord on your mandola.  Count up four -- D, E, F (or on the D scale, F#), G.  The D chord fingering on the mandolin produces a G chord on the mandola.

So, "A is D, Am is Dm, F is Bb," so on and so forth.  When playing the mandola along with mandolin players, you just have to be aware of the relationship.  They're playing a tune in D, you play along using "A" mandolin fingerings, and you're in D too.

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## pekoe1111

Thanks, Allen!

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## delsbrother

> i did not make it past 2 seconds into the video beforte i had to turn it off


Dude, you have to get one of them hats.

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## Chief

That Banjo Bill is one funky dude. The hat was uber cool.

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## rico mando

i do not have the ears for that hat .

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## pekoe1111

Got the Airline the other day and love it so far (my first electric instrument!).  Getting used to the new chords (not much of a picker yet). Build quality is nice, action is good out of the box.  Bought a Fender Mustang 1 practice amp and am having a ball with the modeling.  

One thing I am finding is the C string is so low that it sounds pretty muddy (obviously when played electric).  I find myself staying away from it for some chords because it overwhelms the sound.  I figure I just have to mess around with the amp settings.

This Saturday is its first "public" event - should be fun to see everyone's face when I take it out of the case.  Thanks to all for the advice.  

BB

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## mrmando

What's the gauge on that C string?

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## pekoe1111

No clue on the gauge as it came on the instrument. Wondering if intonation is off.  Tuner jumps around a bit when testing at 12th fret, but tuning shows a flat note when fretting the C strings on the second fret.

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## Ed Goist

Does anyone know if the Eastwood Airline Mandola has a radiused fretboard? (The Eastwood website doesn't say).
BTW, I'm thinking the string gauges recommended to make this a short scale OM would be something like 14-26-38-52. I'd also probably go single strings for the OM (strung like Jeff Bird's EM-200).

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## ambrosepottie

I have one. It looks like the fretboard is radiused. Nice instrument and lefty too. The string tension in C tuning using the factory strings, whatever they are is not at all tight, so I don't know if a lower tuning would be optimal.

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## Ed Goist

Mike Robinson of Eastwood Guitars has confirmed for me that the fretboard on the Eastwood Airline Electric Mandola is flat.
I was very impressed to get such a prompt reply to my query.
Unfortunately, the flat board takes the instrument out of consideration for me.

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## rico mando

Have you tried a tenor guitar ed?  i love mine .i have a goldtone acoustic and a eastwood electric . the fret board is flat on these and the eastwood has a wide neck .

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## Ed Goist

Hi Rico; I'm thinking a short-scale (less than 20") electric octave might really appeal to me. I was hoping the Eastwood Airline would be a fairly inexpensive way for me to find this out. [My plan was to restring it to 4 strings: G(52)-D(38)-A(26)-E(14)]. Then, if I liked this instrument as much as I suspect I will, I'd custom order a short-scale octave and sell the Eastwood when the new one was delivered. That's all moot now, as the flat board is a deal-breaker for me.

Too bad...It's hard enough to find mandolins to try before buying...Imagine walking into a music shop..._"Excuse me, do you have any short-scale, electric, octave mandolins with radiused fretboards?"_. Actually, I might ask this the next time I'm in Guitar Center just to see the look on the poor clerk's face!  :Grin:

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## rico mando

Well you could give Tom a try at moongazer . his 16.5 scale electric dola starts just past 300 and you should be able to have him send you a longer neck and a few other upgrades for a decent price . that is if you don't mind getting a little saw dust under your nails

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...that is if you don't mind getting a little saw dust under your nails


I might not mind, but the poor instrument would! That kind of stuff is outside my skill sets...Way outside  :Smile:

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## Ed Goist

> Mike Robinson of Eastwood Guitars has confirmed for me that the fretboard on the Eastwood Airline Electric Mandola is flat.
> ...snip...


*The plot thickens...*
From Peter McCracken of Eastwood Guitars after I informed him that Mike Robinson had informed me that the EA Mandola had a flat fretboard:

_Hi Ed:
Just double checked one right out of stock. All though very difficult to tell on such a small neck, it does appear to have a radius & measures closest at 10 on or template here.
-Peter_

10" is just about the sweet-spot radius-wise for me...
More to come?  :Smile:

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## delsbrother

Hmm. In that case, why don't you just imagine it has a radius, whether it has one or not?  :Smile:

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## ambrosepottie

Told you so.

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## Ed Goist

I have a question for those who have owned/played an Eastwood Airline Electric Mandola: What size are the frets?
Would you categorize them as large, medium or small? Thanks.

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## rico mando

they were not small like gibson mandolin more like banjo frets if i remember correctly

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## FaceOnMars

I've visited mandolincafe.com many times over the years, but this thread prompted me to register ... since I'm very close to purchasing the Airline Electric Mandola and had a similar question about tuning to GDAE.    It's not really a deal breaker for me, but was curious.  Sounds as if the scale length might be "in between gears" in so far as having it go too floppy ... especially on the low G ... but seems others have had some success on other instruments of a comparable scale length.

Haven't played my acoustic mandolin (and mandola [actually unloading a midmo m-16] or acoustic guitar) in 3-4 years due to health issues ... mainly a peripheral neuropathy which causes my finger tips to get pretty bad stabbing pain.   So, have been playing an electric hollow body jazz guitar with flat wound strings ... which is a lot more gentle to the touch vs. either an acoustic guitar or what seems to be the higher tensioned double string config of a mandolin.   Have also gravitated away from playing constant rhythmic chord fingerings/progressions to more of a sequential note melodic approach (over loops or with others) ... and really getting into electric effects.

I have a mando bird 8 - which I stripped down to four flatwound strings and found my fingers could tolerate playing it fairly well for a decent amount of time ... although it was still on the cusp of being a bit too much.  I was REALLY hoping the Airline Mandola might be a great inexpensive way to at least test the waters again in this instrument family.  So, in addition to the mando tuning question, I was curious if any of you might point me in the right direction or share your experiences with:

1.)  Stripping down to four (or five) strings.   This would definitely be easier on my fingers.   When I did this to my mandobird 8, the set of four strings weren't "centered" but rather shifted up (or could have been down) to the low G edge of the fretboard ... and likewise there was a slight gap between the high E and the other edge of the fretboard.    I imagine it will be a similar situation with the Airline Mandola, but wondering if anyone has actually performed a more permanent retrofit to either 4 or 5 strings which corrected this issue of the set of strings not being centered?   Can the whole bridge assembly could be unmounted and redrilled into proper position (use existing saddles)?  Or, perhaps replacement saddles?   I saw that every other string goes through the body, so was thinking that could be an issue.

2.)  Flatwound strings.   I'm assuming this takes a ball end, so was wondering if one could simply purchase the desired guages of flatwound strings which are sold/marketed for guitar?  Was thinking of getting some singles of the guages which worked best and possibly allowed a viable GDAE tuning (or standard CGDA).   Any site/strings you'd recommend?

Getting back to the GDAE tuning:   not sure if when some say it'll be too floppy, whether it'll be unplayable in terms of the sheer lack of a decent tone or unavoidable fret buzzing ... or if it would be something which worked, but rather just a tension at which most people are not used to playing and thus having a very weird feel to it?

Any help is much appreciated.

BTW, apparently the Airline Mandola was backordered for at least a couple few months, but they've recently just received shipment.  Probably quicker to go direct vs. a retailer.

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## Ed Goist

Hi FaceOnMars:

I spoke to a fellow who owns a small, independent music shop here in town who happens to be both an Eastwood dealer and well respected for his guitar set-up work. Of course the moded Airline Mandola would not be a guitar, but I'm thinking the set-up on a solid-bodied, fixed-bridge, electric OM would be quite similar to the set-up on an electric guitar.

He is fairly sure that all we would need is a new nut (he recommended bone), and that maybe the existing string-through holes would work on the new string spacing (this would be ideal). If the existing bridge position did not work, he is confident he could retrofit with either the existing or a new bridge at minimal cost. For the entire conversion to 4-strings [nut, bridge, new strings & set-up] he estimated a cost of from $100 to $200. He is confirming the fretboard radius and the fret size for me. If I move forward I will post here.

Regarding the loosey-goosey tension of a 52 gauge G-string on an 18" scale OM, I have checked with a handful of owners of short scale Mann OMs and they all say this isn't a problem in terms of action, playability or buzz.

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## FaceOnMars

Hey Ed, thank you for your reply!

If you do go through with the proposed mod from the music shop you had explained, I would definitely be interested in knowing how it works out for you!   Yeah, I figured it would need a new nut & was thinking somewhere in the cost neighborhood you relayed.   Still, that $200 high end makes me wonder whether it's worth it to try and totally retrofit the instrument to a 5 string?

I suppose my plan is to first see how it goes re: finger pain as an 8 string and then compare with 4 strings by just pulling four off (while ignoring the off centering/spacing of the strings) ... just to get an idea.   Ideally, I'd like to see if I can make it work as an 8 string & then perhaps invest in a higher end 4 or 5 string.

Yeah, I've been digging around here a bit and noticed a couple posts about some Mann's with an 18.25 scale length working out with GDAE tuning ... so that's hopeful, but also aware that sometimes there's not a lot of wiggle room on setup parameters & every instrument is different.

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## rico mando

> makes me wonder whether it's worth it to try and totally retrofit the instrument to a 5 string?
> .


You would need a new neck to make it a 5-string .but the body is nice so worth doing it would make a nice 5- string . i had one and played it with just 4 strings and was no big deal . would look nicer with a new nut but you do not need to change the bridge though nicer saddles would not hurt .i did not like it tuned gdae and kept it cgda which matched my 5-string 14.5 in the low c octave .

Oh and reselling these seem to be really easy . i sold mine after 6 months of ownership and made one dollar profit . free shipping from direct retailer . really what would you pay to rent one for 6 months . just knock that off your resale price .

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## FaceOnMars

> You would need a new neck to make it a 5-string


It seems your saying the neck width is too small to allow for minimum spacing for five strings even with a new nut & adjusted saddle/bridge.   ... was thinking the removal of the second set of strings would "buy enough" space for that fifth string, but apparently not.

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## rico mando

> It seems your saying the neck width is too small to allow for minimum spacing for five strings even with a new nut & adjusted saddle/bridge.   ... was thinking the removal of the second set of strings would "buy enough" space for that fifth string, but apparently not.


Think longer standard mandolin neck .

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## Ed Goist

By the way, the nut width on this instrument is 1.19" or 1 3/16", so it is just slightly wider than a "standard" width regular scale mandolin. Also, with the short scale, the 5th string would need to be B above E.

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## rico mando

> By the way, the nut width on this instrument is 1.19" or 1 3/16", so it is just slightly wider than a "standard" width regular scale mandolin.


Sure ,but remember these are the guys who told you it was a flat fret board at first also . you may want to verify that measurement yourself . it could be that the neck is supposed to be 1 3/16ths but it might not be that way leaving the korean factory

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## Ed Goist

> ...it could be that the neck is supposed to be 1 3/16ths but it might not be that way leaving the korean factory


Good point. Though I am fairly confident in the nut width spec.
I am getting it from Eastwood's German dealer (Thomann), and Germans tend to be exacting on such matters.  :Grin:

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## pekoe1111

Love this Eastwood Airline Mandola, by am just a frustrated mandolin player!  Let me know if you are interested in buying it.

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## Eddie Sheehy

I put FT76 strings on a 17" scale Mandola and tuned it GGDDAAEE and it wasn't sloppy...  I also had good results with TI 174's (this option would significantly increase the value of an Airline).   I imagine J76's would have been good too

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## pekoe1111

Clueless here about these strings you mention.  Also, I don't get the tuning where letters are caps instead of lower case - lower octave?  So many people have said the G is too loose when GDAE is tuned an octave lower than mando.  Was your setup an octave lower or the same as a mando?  My first choice is to keep the Airline and somehow tune it to GDAE either the same or lower octave than a mando.

By the way, where in heck do you buy strings for an electric mandola?  I have a couple of cigar box guitars, so I am familiar with buying them one at a time, but I'm hoping there are applicable sets out there...

BB

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## Ed Goist

BB, I think you should try single strings, tuned one octave lower than a mandolin, with gauges: G(52)-D(38)-A(26)-E(14), and strung through the treble notch of each course.

If you try this, please report back regarding the tension/floppiness of that 52 gauge G string.

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## pekoe1111

One of the reasons I love these instruments is the full sound of the paired strings, but I'm sure a pair of loose strings will flap against each other and sound terrible.

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## pekoe1111

What tuning is it with a capo on the 5th fret?

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## ambrosepottie

Nut is 1  and 1/8". Frets are smallish, smaller and flatter than the brass frets on my Regal tenor guitar.

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## MandoSquirrel

Anybody know if they have a hard case to fit the Eastwood Airline Mandola, or only bags? I'm considering ordering one, or a mandocaster, & I'm a firm believer in hard cases.

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## rico mando

> Anybody know if they have a hard case to fit the Eastwood Airline Mandola, or only bags? I'm considering ordering one, or a mandocaster, & I'm a firm believer in hard cases.


 they do have them but they may or may not  be out of stock . they  should have a regular case for it but not the deluxe .

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## ambrosepottie

The hard case is a rectangular case retrofitted for the mandola. It's quite a bit longer than the instrument. Probably made for electric guitar. It works though.

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## Don Julin

I have had my Eastwood Mandola for about six months now. I am getting a pretty decent jazz guitar type of sound with only 4 strings. I still tune it CGDA but I put light strings on so it feels slinky, like an electric guitar. Here is a video clip from a gig at a winery a few weeks ago. Sorry about the poor lighting.

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## pekoe1111

Yeah, the Airline has a very cool mysterious sound to it.  Playing alone it sounds eerie, but when I play with others (mainly a strummer here), it sounds almost a bit out of tune - something I, the novice, attribute to the low C string.  It seems to blend better when I stay away from the C string.

I capo'd at the 7th fret to play like a mando and it sounds "happier?"  Maybe that's just because the notes are higher.  

Sorry to those that responded to my classified ad for the Airline.  I'm still playing around to see if the Airline stays or gets replaced by an electric mando.  On the plus side, I love the unique shape and vibe, the ability to easily play power chords on the two low strings, and the ability to just capo up to play GDAE.

I did try capo at the 5th fret, but not all those chords I want are easily reached (or faked) by my stubby fingers.  Am I missing something (other than natural abillity)?

BB

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## rico mando

> Have you tried a tenor guitar ed?  i love mine .i have a goldtone acoustic and a eastwood electric . the fret board is flat on these and the eastwood has a wide neck .


I just wanted to take this moment to say " I told you so ED "

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## Ed Goist

Indeed you did Rico, and you were spot on!
I love my Eastwood Warren Ellis. I play it everyday, and always have a big smile on my face after the playing session (especially since getting my Earthquaker Devices Fuzz pedal!  :Mandosmiley:   :Grin:  )

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## MandoSquirrel

> Anybody know if they have a hard case to fit the Eastwood Airline Mandola, or only bags? I'm considering ordering one, or a mandocaster, & I'm a firm believer in hard cases.


Since the Kay guitar I decided to sell was only getting low ball offers, I contacted Mike at Eastwood about his trade in deal, & today received my new Airline Mandola, with hard case. It looks as good as or better than it does online, & I'm thinking it may turn out to be fun. Tuning it, though, it felt like it might could go to mandolin tuning with the strings on it, which look, as someone noted on the cafe, to be bronze(ball ends). It seems to sound okay,but I think the strings will need to be switched for something else before long.

Addendum: I just ordered 2 sets of e'dola strings from Martin(emando). I'd rather try flatwounds, but piecing together the right gauges looks like an expensive process.

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Ed Goist

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