# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Gibson L-Jr. Tailpiece Question

## BradKlein

Can anyone help me with a photo of the trapeze tailpiece on a Loar era L-Jr guitar? (I have also posted on UMGF, but the Junior models are perhaps more appreciated by the mandolin crowd, than most guitarists.)

I am repairing an example from 1923, in very good condition, but the cross bar of the tailpiece appears to be a replacement. I think that many of these had the odd crosspiece that takes pins, like the much fancier L-0, but quite unlike the L-5 of that era which had the wrap-over metal crosspiece. 

Measurements would be ideal, but a good photo would be of great help. Compounding the problem, is the fact that some (all?) of this style tailpiece were made of celluloid and that may be why this one didn't last. 

A side note: This guitar seems to have shipped as a hawaiian model, with a metal nut raiser, and a maple bridge, typical of the Jr models, but seemingly made for hawaiian height. It's fretted, but shows NO sign of ever being played spanish style. Carries a dealer tag inside from Roy Killgore of Grand Rapids, Michigan. A teacher of Hawaiian guitar, AND tenor banjo, ukulele, and mandolin!

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## PseudoCelt

There are some L-jr photos in The Mandolin Archive. 
Some more (of the same instrument) in the "Groupings" thread here, here and here.

Patrick

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## BradKlein

Hey Patrick.  Thanks for sending me to pictures of Dan B's Jr.  That instrument has the under-over tail piece like that used on the L-5 of the period. (see photo below)

I'm pretty sure that mine had something else originally, since the ends of the U shaped "trapeze" are threaded for capped bolts that held on some kind of cross piece.  And they are not bent back in a u-turn at the end as they would be to hold on the old style under-over trapeze.

But I'm pretty sure, not the cross piece that's on there now is not original.  Any other L-Jr's out there?

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## danb

I wish I could help more. I've got that Ljr, it was happenstance on ebay more than anything else.. and the only one of those I've documented so far!

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## danb

> Carries a dealer tag inside from Roy Killgore of Grand Rapids, Michigan. A teacher of Hawaiian guitar, AND tenor banjo, ukulele, and mandolin!


I have a few more instruments in the archive with his tag actually.. 79841 & 79840 (Both style O guitars/virzi!)

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## PseudoCelt

You probably saw it, but on the second of the pages from the Groupings thread I linked to, the L-jr ad posted by Dan (post #497) shows a tailpiece similar to what you describe, with a dark crosspiece that could be celluloid.

These all have slightly different celluloid tailpieces:
1912 L-1
1918 L-3
1919 GY

The one on the GY looks most similar to the L-jr in the ad. 

Patrick

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## danb



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## Michael Lewis

The tailpiece in the ad just above looks like some from the teens, with the block of celluloid drilled for shortened bridge pins.  You could use any of many materials for the block.

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## BradKlein

Thanks for the responses, all.  I think that I'll make a pin block out rosewood to start with, and maybe experiment with celluloid when I have an original in hand to model from.

It's a strange design, eh?  Considering that it lasted in some form at Gibson for at least 10 years.  All the disadvantages of a pin bridge... with none of the advantages!   :Smile:

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## RoyEKillgore

> Can anyone help me with a photo of the trapeze tailpiece on a Loar era L-Jr guitar? (I have also posted on UMGF, but the Junior models are perhaps more appreciated by the mandolin crowd, than most guitarists.)
> 
> I am repairing an example from 1923, in very good condition, but the cross bar of the tailpiece appears to be a replacement. I think that many of these had the odd crosspiece that takes pins, like the much fancier L-0, but quite unlike the L-5 of that era which had the wrap-over metal crosspiece. 
> 
> Measurements would be ideal, but a good photo would be of great help. Compounding the problem, is the fact that some (all?) of this style tailpiece were made of celluloid and that may be why this one didn't last. 
> 
> A side note: This guitar seems to have shipped as a hawaiian model, with a metal nut raiser, and a maple bridge, typical of the Jr models, but seemingly made for hawaiian height. It's fretted, but shows NO sign of ever being played spanish style. Carries a dealer tag inside from Roy Killgore of Grand Rapids, Michigan. A teacher of Hawaiian guitar, AND tenor banjo, ukulele, and mandolin!


Are you aware of other instruments that carry the Roy Killgore dealer tag inside? Roy E. Killgore

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## goaty76

Roy,
Was this perhaps your father or grandfather?

Phil

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## danb

> Are you aware of other instruments that carry the Roy Killgore dealer tag inside? Roy E. Killgore


Yes, I have a few more documented on the archive. My guess would be that there are several more out there too.. Gibson agents tended to have fairly large territories.

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