# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  Suggest a tenor guitar to string as octave mandolin please

## colorado_al

I just sold one of my mandolins and I'm looking to buy a tenor guitar to string as a 4 string octave mandolin. I'd like to keep it under $500 if I could. I was trying to buy a Gold Tone TG-10 that someone listed on CL for $75 near me, but seller has been flaky and it doesn't look like that is going to work out. So I'm open to suggestions. Or if you have other suggestions on an actual OM to buy, I could check that out too.
Thanks!
Al

----------


## Mike Barber

The Blueridge BR-40T sounds good tuned that way. I had an octave but sold it and kept the tenor because to my ear it sounded better.

----------


## colorado_al

Cool. I'll check it out. What guage strings do you use? Also, can you suggest a case? Will  any O size case work? 
Thanks!

----------


## Mike Barber

0.12, 0.20, 0.30, 0.45 work well for me. This case is a perfect fit:
http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Gate-C-.../dp/B003YOT0BY

It looks back ordered on amazon (and that price is a steal!), but you may find it other places.

----------


## Mike Barber

I'll add that though I am a beginner and don't spend a lot of time on the tenor, I think it sounds really good playing chords tuned GDAD. You may want to make the smallest string an 0.13 or 0.14 for that tuning. Check out Baron's site here:
http://www.tenorguitarlessons.com/lessons/gdad-lessons/

----------


## pheffernan

Would it be possible, with Al's permission, to extend this conversation above the $500 price point as well? I have had similar wonderings lately of a tenor in octave tuning and wouldn't mind spending a bit more to pick up an instrument built in the U.S. entirely of solid woods.

----------


## Steve Zawacki

An alternative to using a tenor guitar is to try a baritone ukulele (scale length 19 inches) for that tuning.  I have my tenor guitar (Blueridge 40T) @ CGDA and the baritone uke goes back-and-forth GDAE-CGDA depending on the mood when new strings are needed.  

The tradeoff is the uke requires nylon strings, however at that price point the potential of getting a solid-wood uke is better than finding a solid-wood tenor guitar.

----------

fox

----------


## Steve Ostrander

I have a GG c-1511 case on back-order from MF and they gave me a great deal. I can tell you that the Gator GWE 3/4 acoustic case does NOT fit the br40.

----------


## Freddyfingers

I have the blue ridge.  I didn't think the neck and sound board could hold the tension.  Or at least that's what someone explained to me a while back.  On the other hand, I like the tenor as is and would not want to alter it.   I am keeping an eye on the uke store in Hawaii that's putting out the octave mandolin guitar     It's over the the budget posted here, but for me it was built that way and there is no chance of ruining the original tenor if the conversion doesn't work.   

There are also quite a few conversions on eBay.  But whenever I try and get a good look at the action from the pictures , it's usually high.

----------


## fox

You can safely use any popular tuning on the Blueridge.
Generally speaking, most tenor guitars work well with around 80lb of pull from the four strings it doesn't matter what the tuning is.
In fact to me, the Blueridge looks well over braced. The only issue I have had with mine, which is about 5 years old, is some fret wear on the first few frets.

----------


## Mike Barber

As fox said, GDAE is fine on the blueridge - or any tenor. The tension is not higher than standard tuning and is actually more balanced across the strings. This because while the gauge is thicker, the note is lower. You can use http://www.stringtensionpro.com/ to calculate the differences between the tunings.

----------


## Chip Stewart

> You can safely use any popular tuning on the Blueridge.
> Generally speaking, most tenor guitars work well with around 80lb of pull from the four strings it doesn't matter what the tuning is.
> In fact to me, the Blueridge looks well over braced. The only issue I have had with mine, which is about 5 years old, is some fret wear on the first few frets.


I calculated the total tension of CGDA tuning with standard tenor guitar strings to be 88 pounds.  Using the John Pearse bluegrass string set in DGBE tuning results in a total tension of 92 pounds.  I contacted Saga Music before I put the John Pearse strings on and they confirmed that the Blueridge BR-60T is fine at 92 pounds.  They wouldn't say what the maximum tension allowed was but did confirm that 92 pounds was no problem.

----------


## PiousDevil

nevermind, I can't read

----------


## Charles E.

I have never tried octave tuning on a tenor guitar with a pin bridge, that was setup to use CGDA tuning. In order to use the thicker guage strings was it necessary to make the nut slots wider? Also, did it affect the intonation?

----------


## Charles E.

This.........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1965...IAAOSwjMJXC1r-

----------


## colorado_al

> This.........
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1965...IAAOSwjMJXC1r-


Thanks Charley.
I saw that one on ebay. Looks cool.

----------


## colorado_al

Thanks everybody!
I found a Blueridge BR-40TCE for $289. Mint, according to seller.
I think I will buy a set of flatwound OM strings from emando.com. Their suggested gauge for a 23" octave mandolin in flatwound strings is .042 032 .022 .012. That's for a double course OM. I checked the string tension with http://www.stringtensionpro.com and it came out to about 84 lbs for GDAE tuning. The standard tenor string set in CGDA is 82 lbs. So string tension seems about right overall. 
Has anyone used flatwound strings in GDAE on one of these?

----------


## colorado_al

It seems that the Golden Gate C-1511 case is out of stock everywhere. Does anyone know if other cases will fit it.
I've found these 2 that are made for Size-O guitars. Anyone know if they will fit? 
http://smile.amazon.com/Guardian-CG-.../dp/B004WDQ5NM
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DQ5NRA6

----------


## Seonachan

I got the Guardian vintage case (044) for an 0-sized 6-string I once had, and it fit great, but didn't fit an 0-sized tenor. The upper bout & waist don't match. Can't speak to the cheaper Guardian case, but I'd imagine it's the same story.

----------

colorado_al

----------


## Chip Stewart

> It seems that the Golden Gate C-1511 case is out of stock everywhere. Does anyone know if other cases will fit it.
> I've found these 2 that are made for Size-O guitars. Anyone know if they will fit? 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Guardian-CG-.../dp/B004WDQ5NM
> http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DQ5NRA6


Mountain View Music has one in stock and the price is pretty good ( www.mountainviewmusic.com/product-p/c-1511.htm ).  Haight Asbury Music also has one with a little higher price ( haightashburymusic.com/goldengate-gate-c1511-premier-hardshell-tenor-guitar-case-for-blueridge-br41 ).  Check the shipping cost though because sometimes the total price is lower on the more expensive item.  Good luck in your quest.  The Golden Gate C-1511 case is what you want for your Blueridge BR-40T.  It fits perfectly.

----------

colorado_al

----------


## Steve Ostrander

I ordered the GG c-1511 case from MF for $75 and some change. They said about 4 weeks on BO.

----------

colorado_al

----------


## Steve Ostrander

> I found a Blueridge BR-40TCE for $289. Mint, according to seller.


That's a good deal, if it really is mint.

----------


## colorado_al

> That's a good deal, if it really is mint.


I'm guessing that it is not mint, but won't know until I see it. Should be here Friday.





> Mountain View Music has one in stock and the price is pretty good ( www.mountainviewmusic.com/product-p/c-1511.htm ).  Haight Asbury Music also has one with a little higher price ( haightashburymusic.com/goldengate-gate-c1511-premier-hardshell-tenor-guitar-case-for-blueridge-br41 ).  Check the shipping cost though because sometimes the total price is lower on the more expensive item.  Good luck in your quest.  The Golden Gate C-1511 case is what you want for your Blueridge BR-40T.  It fits perfectly.


Thanks for the heads up on cases

----------


## Grommet

That is a smokin' deal! May it serve you long and well. My new BR-40T and CG-1511 case arrived on the 12th from Amazon.  I have been having a ball with it!

Scott

----------

colorado_al

----------


## colorado_al

I contacted Musicians Friend and they placed a special order for me on the case for $79.99, free shipping. 4-6 weeks. Willing to wait and save $75 compared to the 2 places that have it in stock.

In the meantime, I'm ordering a 3/4 size guitar gig bag for $25. Hope it fits.
http://smile.amazon.com/Gator-GBE-MI.../dp/B000MXJIL2
Thanks!

----------


## Freddyfingers

> I have the blue ridge.  I didn't think the neck and sound board could hold the tension.  Or at least that's what someone explained to me a while back.  On the other hand, I like the tenor as is and would not want to alter it.   I am keeping an eye on the uke store in Hawaii that's putting out the octave mandolin guitar     It's over the the budget posted here, but for me it was built that way and there is no chance of ruining the original tenor if the conversion doesn't work.   
> 
> There are also quite a few conversions on eBay.  But whenever I try and get a good look at the action from the pictures , it's usually high.


Whoops!  The OP said nothing about adding four more strings to make it an octave mandolin, just rest ringing the four to gdae.  My mistake for glancing through the first post.  Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

----------


## colorado_al

> Whoops!  The OP said nothing about adding four more strings to make it an octave mandolin, just rest ringing the four to gdae.


Though I hadn't mentioned it, I had thought of modifying a tenor to an 8 string octave mandolin. I don't think that would really work out so well, since it would have double the tension on the neck and soundboard. I might try it someday, but probably not on this instrument.

----------


## fox

You could use nylon strings, 8 x nylon  works out at a very similar string tension to 4 x steel strings.
 I have been really surprised about how good nylon can sound in GDAE!

----------

colorado_al

----------


## KR Strings

Hi all,

      Not sure how many of you have heard of the Pono Guitar Co. I am a mandolin player living in Hawaii and for years I worked for the Ko'olau & Pono Guitar and Ukulele Co. We make a full line of all solid wood ukes and guitars with many many tonewood combinations, real bone nuts and saddles, fully adjustable two way truss rods, real wood bindings, radiused fingerboards and deluxe hardshell cases as well. I recently came up with an instrument that we are going to be making, an octave mandolin with a small parlor size guitar body: https://vimeo.com/162012592

We also make a tenor guitar with a 23" scale that we are going to offer as a double chorused Octave mandolin. Either of these instruments with a slight change in strings can be tuned DGBE, or CGDA. 

  If you would like more information, please feel free to contact me at krstrings@gmail.com. I have many instruments for sale and am working on a website dedicated to strings and tuning possibilities of hybrid mando-ukulele-guitar instruments. 

Thanks, -Kilin Reece

www.krstrings.com

----------


## colorado_al

> I recently came up with an instrument that we are going to be making, an octave mandolin with a small parlor size guitar body


Hey Kilin, 
I saw your video last week. Looks and sounds like a great instrument! I'm interested, but not sure if I'd be able to afford it. Any word on pricing yet? 
Thanks! Al

----------


## KR Strings

Hi Al, 

    Thanks for the feedback! I am trying to keep the cost for the satin finish, Mahogany back and sides, Englemann spruce top model at under $900, thats including a full set up and deluxe hardshell case. As a player myself its my goal to make these affordable-and great sounding, so that working musicians can add them to their lineup without taking out a second mortgage. Because I'm designing this with a pin bridge and drop in saddle, most of the guitar style undersaddle pickups on the market can be easily installed. 

Thanks and let me know if you would like to be added to my email list notifying people when they are available.

Cheers -Ki

www.krstrings.com

808-387-4583

----------

fox

----------


## Barry Wilson

All you guys talking tenors has me looking now... I am curious if anyone has played one of these? I like having local and warranty

https://www.long-mcquade.com/16546/G...nor_Guitar.htm

----------


## fox

Not really my thing but EZMarc makes them sound good on YouTube.

----------


## colorado_al

The Blueridge BR-40TCE arrived today! 
It is not quite in mint condition, however the pick guard did it's duty and otherwise, the instrument is in excellent shape!
Tomorrow, I'm going to string it up with the D'Addario flatwound octave mandolin strings that I bought. Tonight I played it with the tenor strings that are on it, and it sounds super nice!
I am curious about what Freddyfingers wrote above. I might consider converting it to an 8 string. I'm pretty sure that there is not enough room in the headstock for 4 more open back butterbean tuning machines, so I'd either have to replace the ones there and install minis, plus 4 more, or plug the headstock and drill for 4-on-a-plate mandolin tuning machines. There looks to be plenty of room at the nut for paired courses, and room in the bridge for more string holes. Only real question is whether the neck and top can handle the tension. The X bracing looks pretty substantial, so I'm thinking I might go for it. 
Anyhow, while I'm waiting on the backordered hard case, I purchased a Gator gig bag for 3/4 guitars and it fits great!
http://smile.amazon.com/Gator-GBE-MI.../dp/B000MXJIL2

----------


## fox

I would of thought it a short scale six string would make a much better candidate for a 8 string conversion?

----------


## Bertram Henze

> I would of thought it a short scale six string would make a much better candidate for a 8 string conversion?


Six-string-fretboards are awfully wide for an OM, I think.

----------


## fox

Yes of course but Al suggest he is a practical sort so the fret board would have be cut down.
I have converted quite a few & I have a method that is relatively straight forward!
The benefit is the bracing and soundboard is designed for around 170lb the same as a 8 string would be, the dubious bit it the narrowed neck. I cant say how long a narrowed neck will last but the first ones I converted are around 3 years old and still good.

----------


## fox

Here is a 25" scale six string conversion I did only a few days ago, took around two hours or work.
I cut down the fret board using a mini grinder with a 2mm thick metal cutting disc just leaving the 12th fret markers in place on the edge. I clamp a steel straight edge on the fret board as a guide as just whizz down the edges being carful over the soundboard.
I use 2.7mm brass rod to separate the strings and 36mm nut.
Quick & dirty but fantastic fun to play.

----------

colorado_al, 

Mike Barber

----------


## colorado_al

I spoke with someone at Saga today and they told me that the body of the BR-40T and the BR-41 (3/4 6 string) are the same. The only difference in the 2 models is the neck, head, and bridge. If that is the case, I see no difference structurally in modifying a 4 string or 6 string to an 8 string. Seems a lot simpler to me to convert a 4 string than slim down the neck on a 6 string. I may need to swap out all of the tuning machines to something like Grover Mini or something else that will fit on the smaller headstock, but otherwise, it looks pretty straightforward to me. I did some calculations and the 3/4 size 6 string would have 147# when strung with medium gauge EJ17 (as comes stock on the Blueridge BR-41). The 8 string OM set would be 169#. I'm guessing it will handle it. I'll let you know what I find out.

----------


## fox

That is interesting about the body although not totally surprising! Having said that, it is surprising that the BR40t sounds so good considering it is braced for 160lb!
That now opens up the opportunity to reduce the bracing if I can pluck up the courage to do it.
If Blueridge would produce a lighter braced version it might sound even better.
I also notice that on amazon UK the BR41 sells for £289 and the BR40T sells for £483, that is a lot of extra money for two less strings!,

----------


## fox

Al, have you had any more thoughts about using 8 strings on you BR40?
I can see the appeal but wouldn't the 32mm nut be pretty narrow, my octaves are all around the 35-37mm.
Since you have pointed out that the 41 & 40 have the same body and bracing I have now scalloped all the soundboard bracing on my BR40T ;0

----------


## colorado_al

> Al, have you had any more thoughts about using 8 strings on you BR40?
> I can see the appeal but wouldn't the 32mm nut be pretty narrow, my octaves are all around the 35-37mm.
> Since you have pointed out that the 41 & 40 have the same body and bracing I have now scalloped all the soundboard bracing on my BR40T ;0


I think I'm going to go for it. I ordered 4 more matching chinese tuning machines and a set of bridge pins. I'm going to have to cut down the backs of the tuning machines so that all 8 will fit, but I don't think it will be a big deal. I also don't think the nut width is an issue. I've played the Trinity TM-325 Octave for a while and it has a 32mm nut. I'll let you know how it goes.

How does the BR40 sound with scalloped bracing?

----------

fox

----------


## fox

I noticed an instant difference in the sound, I can't say it is dramatic but there seems to be a little more sustain and volume.
However from what I have read, it could take a few weeks or months of playing to loosens up the soundboard for any potential improments to develop.
I have a friend with a BR40T so it will be interesting to compare the two side by side....

----------


## mandroid

Only 4 strings ?   truss rod neck?   & ITB   string set should work..

----------


## colorado_al

I'm having second thoughts about turning the Blueridge BR40TCE into an 8 string. It looks like I would have to replace the tuning pegs with something like Grover minis and drill out the post holes from 8mm to 10mm. Not sure I'm interested in that. Just not enough space on the back of the peghead for 4 extra open back tuners.

Edit-
I have bought 4 additional open back tuning pegs and I'm going to see if I can modify the mounting plate on them to give me enough room to mount them.

----------


## colorado_al

OK. Can't modify the open back tuning pegs enough to fit 8 on the headstock.
I'm going with some mini sealed tuning machines. Mediums - Grover or Gotoh. 
Looking to reinforce the bridgeplate with some laminate "formica" as suggested elsewhere in the forum, and keeping 4 bridge pins only.
I'll post some pictures when I get started.

----------

fox

----------


## colorado_al

> I contacted Musicians Friend and they placed a special order for me on the case for $79.99, free shipping. 4-6 weeks. Willing to wait and save $75 compared to the 2 places that have it in stock.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm ordering a 3/4 size guitar gig bag for $25. Hope it fits.
> http://smile.amazon.com/Gator-GBE-MI.../dp/B000MXJIL2
> Thanks!


Quoting myself here, but the Golden Gate case never did show up from Musician's Friend. After 10 weeks, they cancelled the special order. I see the Golden Gate case available on Amazon now for $100. Musician's Friend said they have another case by Gator that would fit it and they gave me $25 off for the failed special order, and free 2 day shipping. It should be here by Wed. I'll let you know if it fits OK.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acces...ic-guitar-case

Also, I did modify the tenor to 8 string OM. See here:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-OM-conversion

Thanks for everyone's help & input!
Al

----------


## s11141827

The John Pearse String company actually makes a set of Tenor Guitar strings built for that tuning. Meet the John Pearse Tenor Guitar String Set #450, they're 80/20 Bronze Wound Custom Gauge, & are designed to tune your Tenor Guitar like a Mandolin/Violin but down an Octave which puts it in the same register as the Octave Mandolin aka Tenor Mandolin. I prefer tuning a 4 String Tenor Guitar this way because Tenor Guitars tend to be tuned quite high at CGDA Tuning (which is more of an Alto Voice rather than the True Tenor Voice at GDAE) & tuning them down a perfect fourth really mellows it out so that it won't overpower your voice when you're singing & strumming:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdoTyJIiRhs

----------


## s11141827

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgJ1_6hN8x4 You can actually use GDAE Tuning on a Tenor Guitar in Jazz because the sound is much mellower & deeper & Nikolas Kiselov is proving it.

----------


## s11141827

The Nitty Gritty Jazz Band

----------


## Jill McAuley

You do know that this is a six year old thread?

----------

