# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  How Many Really Like BLACK Top and BLACK Mandolins??

## Nalapombu

Hey all,

The last several days I have been nosing through mando stores and pics to see what kind of mandos are out there and popular and the prices they are going for.  After seeing a lot of mandolins I realized that some of the prettiest mandos I had seen are the BLACK faced and all BLACK mandolins.  The LOAR makes a really nice F and an A, I think.  Eastman also makes a nice example.
I am noticing that even in the lower priced mandolins there are many more finish options available than what there used to be back when I got involved.  Back then it was pretty much the standard burst style finish that was the overwhelming majority of mandolin finishes unless you got a custom finish.  Now it seems that Black is just one of the choices we can have.  So many mandolins are really beautiful.  I also really like the violin type of finish.

I'd like to know what you all think of the BLACK finish on mandolins.  Do you like it, hate it or are indifferent?

If you were going to get a BLACK finished mandolin, either just the face or the entire instrument, and you had say $700 to spend, what would you get?  A or F doesn't matter in this one.

If you have a Black finished mando, how about posting some pics of it so the rest of us can enjoy it too..

Thanks all.

nalajr

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## Joey Anchors

I would love to see more colors used. Like candy apple red, or a gold top.

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## Michael Bridges

I'm a Big fan of a cool looking black-top! The Weber Black Ice is just striking in every way. A bit more in my price range, I really like the J Bovier black tops http://www.themandoshop.net/jbovier-...-BG-12414.html Jeff also does the A5T in a black topand it looks eqally nice.

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## roysboy

Ditto ...love the J Bovier  blacktop A style

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## bart mcneil

I like a nice black mando but black tends to show its imperfections, scratches, wear and dirt more than any other color. That  said, I would still like to own one. My butler can keep it clean and pretty, after he irons my underwear.

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## Jonathan James

I've always been a sucker for a black-topped mando.  The Collings MT in that shade always look great to me, and remind me of a poor man's Tim O'Brien Nugget mandolin...You see some older Flatiron's in that stain as well.

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## Jonathan James

As an aside, you should avoid the term "black top" as it has negative connotations dating back to the minstrel shows that started in the South in the 1830's...

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spufman

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## Bertram Henze

> minstrel shows


So different is language. Blackface are Scottish sheep.

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## LongBlackVeil

> As an aside, you should avoid the term "black top" as it has negative connotations dating back to the minstrel shows that started in the South in the 1830's...


disagreed, lots of words have old negative connotations that are irrelevant these days and we still use them.

Ive never heard about anyone who was offended by the term blacktop as it applies to old fender amps. 

Lets not be silly here, its a color, nothing more. 

I do like the old gibsons and i think it looks better on an a style, i especially like the a5s with blacktop and natural back and sides

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stevedenver

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## John Adrihan

I do not care for black f5's - But I love black top A5's like MT2's and Tim O's. Nugget.

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## Tobin

> I like a nice black mando but black tends to show its imperfections, scratches, wear and dirt more than any other color. That  said, I would still like to own one. My butler can keep it clean and pretty, after he irons my underwear.


Yep, a black-faced (black-top) mandolin will indeed show scratches and dust/lint more easily than one with color variations.  Also, tiny spots are obvious on the finish, such as sweat, spittle (that's a fun word), etc.  Fortunately, a simple wipe-down every so often with a microfiber cloth will keep the dust at bay, as well as the little bits of dead skin and Lord-knows-what-else that tends to accumulate near the bridge and tailpiece.  It's usually only obvious to the player, and a black-face mandolin still looks very good to others who are more than a couple of feet away, as long as it's kept clean and shiny.

IMHO, an armrest is a 'must-have' on a black-face mandolin unless you don't mind the wood color showing through over time at the edge.  And I wouldn't advise a black-face mandolin for pinky-planters unless they use a pickguard/finger-rest.  They really do require some extra care and attention to keep looking good.  But they can be very striking in their simplicity, even if they don't get the same general attention as colored finishes/sunbursts.

I don't have a decent photo of my black-faced Pava by itself, but here it is lurking in the shadows with some of my others.  Understated beauty, in my opinion, and the white binding really accentuates the outline of it.

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hank

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## Bertram Henze

> IMHO, an armrest is a 'must-have' on a black-face mandolin unless you don't mind the wood color showing through over time at the edge.


You mean black *isn't* the color of the wood?  :Disbelief:  :Whistling:  :Grin:

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## Barry Wilson

I have a few black instruments and they show the fingerprints and such the worst. I used to love the black instruments but moving back to seeing the wood grains is preferable now. Black also shows the scratches and dings easier

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## Timbofood

If I ever get enough gumption to build my "duck" I will make 2, one black with a solid mop bar at neck joint (Daffy) and one white with an abalone "bow tie" (Donald) then wait to see if anyone gets the joke.
Barry makes an extremely good point though, scratches, dings, those dreaded fingerprints!

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## FLATROCK HILL

> So different is language. Blackface are Scottish sheep.


And truthfully, none of the ones I've encountered have been offended by the term.

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Jonathan James

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## Cheryl Watson

I prefer sunbursts, but if I can ever afford a nice Loar period snakehead Gibson, black would not deter me if the tone was exceptional.

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## bratsche

Black would be my color of choice, if I were in the market for a carbon fiber instrument.  With wood, though, I have to be able to see the grain.  Covering it up is masking its natural beauty (yes, in general, I've always loved to look at wood grain.)  The exception would be for really ugly wood.  But I wooden be interested in that, anyway.  ;}

bratsche

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Violingirl

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## Tobin

> With wood, though, I have to be able to see the grain.  Covering it up is masking its natural beauty (yes, in general, I've always loved to look at wood grain.)


I've gone back and forth on that issue.  I do love the look of natural wood, and certain dye/stain techniques can be a true artform.  But on the other hand, mandolin tops are generally spruce, which doesn't have much to look at in the way of beautiful wood grain.  Spruce is actually pretty visibly boring, compared to the other woods typically used for sides and backs.  So making a black-face mandolin isn't sacrificing too terribly much in that regard, especially if other figured woods are used on the sides and back.

That said, I certainly wouldn't want all my mandolins to have black tops.  I'm a sucker for a well-done sunburst or even a plain color, like Sheraton brown.  That's what makes the black-face mandolins kind of special in their simplicity: they're the exception, not the rule.

And too, a black top is a good use of wood that may be sonically great, but not so perfect visually.  Discoloration, waviness in the grain, or other issues might not be the best choice for a blonde or lighter-finished top.  But they can be well disguised on a black-face mandolin and still sound great.  In fact, I would even venture to say that sound is more important on a black-face mandolin, since it doesn't benefit from "eye candy" status.

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## Jim Garber

The favorite of my Gibsons is my '23 black-faced A2 but I like it for the sound. Frankly, I believe that Gibson made black topped instruments in order to cover up problems with the wood.  I went from a whitefaced Gibson A3 to this black topped one but the tone was the final decision-inducer.

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## terzinator

> If you have a Black finished mando, how about posting some pics of it so the rest of us can enjoy it too..


I can comply with that.

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hank

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## yankees1

As they say, once you go black you will never go back ! But, black doesn't appeal to me. Marks and scratches will be  seen easier . Just like a black car that is a daily driver.

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stevedenver

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## bratsche

> I've gone back and forth on that issue.  I do love the look of natural wood, and certain dye/stain techniques can be a true artform.  But on the other hand, mandolin tops are generally spruce, which doesn't have much to look at in the way of beautiful wood grain.  Spruce is actually pretty visibly boring, compared to the other woods typically used for sides and backs.  So making a black-face mandolin isn't sacrificing too terribly much in that regard, especially if other figured woods are used on the sides and back.


On several of my flat-top instruments that have very interesting spruce grains, filled with beautiful shimmering medullary rays, it would be a crime to cover them up.  (One has a sunburst finish, the others have a natural and a slightly darker stain, which let the effect show evenly all over.)   I don't think even the nice plain spruce grains are boring at all.  But that's just me.  Plus I don't tend to like it when a top is a darker color than the back and sides - that just seems somehow backwards, aesthetically.

bratsche

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## lflngpicker

I have admired these black top mandolins.  Since I have three natural or sunburst tops, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a black top mandolin that had the sound I was looking for-- either the Kentucky KM-1500 black or an oval hole A style with the sound I was looking for would both be of interest.  

Yes, I do like them!

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## Eddie Sheehy

I had an all black (top, back, sides) with white binding Gibson F5L.  I used to joke that if Johnny Cash had had a mandolin this would have been it.  When I was releasing it there wasn't a lot of interest in it - mainly because of the Black back - it seem that a Black top is OK.  A week after I sold it the person who sold it to my tried to buy it back...

A friend half-jokingly said to me that 'it must have been the ugliest Spruce and Maple that Gibson had so they covered it up...

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lflngpicker

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## Eddie Sheehy

I currently have a Mike Black A4 Black-top...

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## allenhopkins

My three-point pre-1910 F-2 has a black top.  That was pretty common for the model at the time, I understand.

The finish is a bit worn, which might be expected over a century's use, but I like the "different" look.  Don't own a modern black-top.

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## foldedpath

> Black would be my color of choice, if I were in the market for a carbon fiber instrument.  With wood, though, I have to be able to see the grain.  Covering it up is masking its natural beauty (yes, in general, I've always loved to look at wood grain.)  The exception would be for really ugly wood.  But I wooden be interested in that, anyway.  ;}


One compromise between "grain vs. solid color" is a dark color that's semi-transparent, so at least a small amount of grain shows through. I don't know how successful that would be with a black top, but it works pretty well with a solid brown color. This is my Lebeda with a redwood top, chocolate brown stain:



The flash lighting in the photo makes it look lighter than it actually is. In normal room lighting it's a very dark brown top, but you can still see the grain lines and cells in the wood if you look real close, and the photo shows that if you zoom right in on it. Like a black top, it does show lint and finger smudges much more than a natural wood or sunburst, especially with a gloss finish like this. I still like it though... it's something different, and I've always been drawn to unusual instruments. The tuners now have black ebony buttons, which looks even better on a dark instrument like this (IMO).

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Jonathan James

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## pheffernan

> I currently have a Mike Black A4 Black-top...


Is that #14 Eddie? Please let me know should you ever intend to release it back into the wild.

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## mandroid

I bought a Carbon Fiber  Mix A5, I like it for what it is, and Being Black
 is part of the package.

Were I to order a New  one  rather than get it passed thru 2 hands before Me , 
I have considered 
an almost opaque black for the top and peg head face, as a good look.. 

 the woven cloth just on the player's side.
As Is, when made, it got some black shading around the edges .. 

as I understand,  in the Orchestral string instruments, the Luis and Clark company
 that also  sells Carbon Fiber Violins,Violas, Cello's and Basses  
 there is an Optional finish  so you are not the only one  with a black instrument.

even Peter  gets  bodies  made using a Kevlar thread woven in to the Carbon cloth.
 the Kevlar(Modified-Nylon), takes Dyes  so can be colored , 
where the Carbon Fibers will be Black..

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## Eddie Sheehy

A Black, Black...

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GKWilson, 

hank, 

lflngpicker, 

Mike Black, 

pheffernan

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## Robert Smyth

I love the look of the old Gibson F-4s in blacktop.

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## Gregory Tidwell

> A Black, Black...


A true beaut, she is.

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## jim simpson

I've owned a number of black topped instruments, love em'. Here's a picture that includes a couple of black tops. The Collings is on it's way to a new home.

Also a photo I took of Tim O's from a visit to his home town of Wheeling.

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hank, 

lflngpicker

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## LongBlackVeil

> I've owned a number of black topped instruments, love em'. Here's a picture that includes a couple of black tops. The Collings is on it's way to a new home.
> 
> Also a photo I took of Tim O's from a visit to his home town of Wheeling.


WOW! cool, tell me Tim doesnt carry it in that gig bag behind it ?!

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lflngpicker

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## Eddie Sheehy

The Gibsons - A couple of black A4's, a black H1 (refinished by Chris Standridge, Carver Mandolins)), a black K2...

Black is the color of my true love's hair,
Her lips are like two roses fair
She has the sweetest smile and the gentlest hand
I love the ground whereon she stands...

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## Eddie Sheehy

And some don't like plain black... A Mix Carbon F4 -refinished by Peter Cree, Artist.

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hank

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## Jonathan James

i believe i saw Tim carrying that very bag at Grey Fox in July...

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## ninevah



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hank

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## Jonathan James



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hank, 

lflngpicker

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## terzinator

Even though I love mine, my next mandolin (whatever it may be) will have a top that's either a blonde or a burst.

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## Nalapombu

beautiful stuff everyone....thanks for posting the pics.  lets see more of them.

i think i like the mandos that have the black top with the standard back.  the contrast in the face and the back really sets the mandolin off in my eyes.

nalajr

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## Annette Siegel

Love my darling "Black-Face"

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hank

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## stevedenver

I like black with natural back and side, the contrast is striking
but like others, wood, is simply beautiful, especially when properly stained and /or finished

as mentioned above and as one with a black LP, 
black IS really bad for showing every fingerprint 

I have passed on several mandos I have oggled because to me, black is more often than not, imho boring, even on a Rigel and its Ferrari like shape.

IMHO on a F2, it looks right and superb.

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## fatt-dad

Never thought much about it until I got my 1925 A1. I just love that mandolin. Here it is against my 1920 A3.  The yin and the yang!



f-d

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hank

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## Tom C

I like black top. Not all black.

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## eadg145

I am really attracted to Mike Black's mandolins, and I hope to have one of his A4s someday.   :Smile: 

  But no black top for me.  I'm a wood grain type of guy.  The only black top mandolin that I've liked is Tim O'Brien's Nugget.  I think that is a VERY nice instrument.

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## Bill Baldridge

I'm happy with mine.

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hank

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## Nick Gellie

Simply prefer wood stain to black,  slightly dyed wood looks great too.

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## Ken

Have always liked the look of black topped a models, at least going back to the late 1970's. I do prefer stained wood on back and sides tho.  I also agree with some here that black topped f models are not as attractive.  Here's my main mando.

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## bigskygirl

I like the black tops on mandos and guitars.  They take a bit of extra wiping off but I just saw George Strait and he had a black top guiitar and of course the Man in Black himself used a nice Martin black top.

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## Alan Lackey

The black topped Weber Fs with the deep blue sides and backs are just beautiful.  But to be honest I love blonde and deep red mandos as well....

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## journeybear

Glad to see you are so decisive.   :Wink:  But what about brown ones?  :Confused: 

Black tops are _de rigeur_ for formal occasions. But you had better be wearing a tuxedo as well.  :Cool: 

BTW, as I take note of what I have, black is about all I *don't* have. Just when I thought I had gotten MAS out of my system ... Thank you all *so* much!  :Mad:

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Timbofood

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## bart mcneil

Like bratsche I find the various wood grain patterns used on the fronts of mandos quite interesting and normally study the grain on the top of any mando I am holding. I don't object to sunbursts but they, like black, can hide the flaws or seams in wood tops when lesser grade or narrower boards are used in top construction.

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## Zissou Intern

I like mine and a lot of yours, too!

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## kkmm

I only like black instruments if they are CF ones.

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## Bertram Henze

> Black tops are _de rigeur_ for formal occasions. But you had better be wearing a tuxedo as well.


The same applies for all-metal resonator instruments.

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## Petrus

It's not easy being green.

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## DylanH

I just saw this on the Northfield Facebook page, says it has a birdseye maple pickguard.

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## dreadhead

Here's my 2013 Collings MT2.

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## Russ Jordan

> Have always liked the look of black topped a models, at least going back to the late 1970's. I do prefer stained wood on back and sides tho.  I also agree with some here that black topped f models are not as attractive.  Here's my main mando.


Nice, Ken!  Who is the builder?  Would love to see shots  of side, back

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## Randi Gormley

coming late to the parade ... I have two black instruments, my Rogue (now on loan) and my snakehead. I have three blondes and two browns. And no bursts. Both the black topped instruments are also black back and sides; both browns are brown faces, sides and backs, one of the blondes is blonde all over and the others are blonde faces but dark/variegated sides (where they have sides) and backs. I like the variety, I guess!

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## Mark Marino

I really like the look of a black top contrasted by reddish brown sides and back.  Maybe I've spent too much time looking at old gibson a but ultimately had to have one so made this simian of kit in that combination and get lots of compliments when I take it out.

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LongBlackVeil, 

Zissou Intern

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## Nalapombu

That's beautiful!!  CONGRATS on building it.  In fact that finish on yours is exactly what I want in my next mandolin, or at least something close to it.

Haw hard was it to make that kit  I'd like to try one that has the body already put together though.  You know, all the heavy lifting already done where all I had to do was getting the body and neck nice and ready for finishing, attaching the neck, all the hardware and finishing it of course with something similar to yours.

Lets see more pics!!

Nalajr

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## GKWilson

I have a few Black mandolins. They're great. I think Mike builds some of the best A's out there.
That said, I wouldn't care what color a mandolin was if it knocked my socks off when I played it.
One of my favorite mandolins is Jenny Lynn's [from Della Mae] black topped Daley. It's an
awesome instrument.
Gary
That F4 'IS' real purrdy Mark.

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## pheffernan

> I have a few Black mandolins. They're great. I think Mike builds some of the best A's out there.


 :Disbelief:  And here I only want one . . . an oval . . . preferably with a Virzi.  :Wink:

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## Rush Burkhardt

I had Pete Langdell build an all black G5 for me in '05. It was a wonderful looking, all black w gold hardware and a sylized eagle, drawn many years ago by my Dad, inlaid in the headstock. It looked way better than this photo depicts. Oh, MAS, why did you take her from me! :Disbelief:

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## Cary Fagan

Since we're on this, does anyone know what builders use for black dye? Do they use the black version of whatever dye they usually use or something else?

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## Michael Wolf

Here´s a black top A5 by Paul Duff:

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Jonathan James

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## Jim Garber

> ultimately had to have one so made this simian of kit in that combination


I have a feeling your auto-correct did not like Roger's name.  :Smile: 



Here's my A2 from 23.

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## Timbofood

That's exactly what I thought too Jim!

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## Jim Garber

> Since we're on this, does anyone know what builders use for black dye? Do they use the black version of whatever dye they usually use or something else?


Some answers on *this thread*, Cary.

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Cary Fagan

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## Ken

> Nice, Ken!  Who is the builder?  Would love to see shots  of side, back


Hey Russ, sorry for not keeping up here on the Cafe.  The mandolin is one of mine, finished in 2009, glad you like it.  Here are pics of the back and side.

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LongBlackVeil, 

Zissou Intern

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## 9lbShellhamer

I like the way the stain on the sides contrasts with the black top...

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LongBlackVeil

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## Jeff Budz

I'm so tired and done with sunburst mandolins.  I have no idea why everyone wants to have mandolins that look the same.  People post pictures of wonderful $10k mandolins on this site and I say to myself, looks like another boring sunburst mandolin, meh.  

I love the look of these blacktop mandolins posted on this thread, especially the Duff with contrasting sides in post #68.  

Me?  I'm dreaming of a mandolin with a transparent tangerine top, something that will really stick out from 99.9% of the mandolins out there.

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## Bertram Henze

> ...meh.


That's exactly the sound blacktop sheep make  :Grin: 




> transparent tangerine top


 :Redface:

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## Pjones3

If you want to try one out see the classifieds for a nice black top Flatiron Festival A.  It's a beauty :Mandosmiley: !

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## Nalapombu

VERY NICE stuff guys and gals!!  Thanks for posting the pics.

I know what you mean JBudz, I too like "different" looks than the norm.  The other day I came across a BLUE Eastman 615 on Ebay and thought it was very nice, but I know that most wouldn't want it in their house.
I like to see all different colors and finishes on mandolins.  It makes things more interesting, I think.  I have pics of an F style on my hard drive that is maybe one of the most beautiful mandolins ever, it is a black top and the sides and back are highly flamed with a natural gloss type finish, no staining on it, just the color mother nature gave it.  Oh boy, what a beauty.  That Duff that is posted is also a very nice mandolin and I too like the contrast between the top and the sides.
If everyone drove the exact same car or motorcycle, things would get pretty darn boring pretty quick.  Variety is the spice of life...isn't that how the saying goes?

Nalajr

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