# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  "That ain't no part of nothin' "

## Carlo Carr

This phrase pops up from time to time on the Cafe website and I'm wondering about the exact attribution. As I recall, it was Bill Monroe's assessement of some act which he didn't consider to be "Bluegrass". Is that correct? Who was it? (Something tells me it was his rejection of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's invitation to take part in "Will the Circle Be Unbroken".

Please help me out here!!

Regards,

Charlie Carr
New Orleans, LA

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## Mike Bunting

I don't know, but the question reminds me of Mark Twain's admonishment that we should never let the truth interfere with a good story.  :Grin:

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## mandozilla

I believe Bill made that statement when asked what he thought about using dobro's in bluegrass music.  :Disbelief: 

Bill replied something to the effect of: "A dobro? Why, that ain't no part of nothin'."   :Laughing: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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DavidKOS

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## Ivan Kelsall

Well,you can't argue with that !,
                                           Saska  :Whistling:

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## MikeEdgerton

It was part of Mr. Monroe's everyday language. He probably said it thousands of times about thousands of things. Peter Rowan even memorialized it in one of his songs about Bill.

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## Daijoki

Between this quote and the infamous butchered headstock, one must ask... Who had "a case of the Mondays?"  :Wink:

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## Jim MacDaniel

I can't speak to the phrase's history, but if you get rid of the triple-negative, it is still seems consistent with his original intent -- but it lacks the gruff charm of the original: _ "That is no part of anything"._

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## Greg H.

I believe Mike is correct, in that it was a common phrase from Bill. That said, the first time I heard of it was in reading about Bill's response to Newgrass, and specifically the Newgrass Revival.

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## Spruce

> It was part of Mr. Monroe's everyday language. He probably said it thousands of times about thousands of things.


Maybe true...
But I listened to 40-50 interviews with Mr. Bill trying to find him saying it, and never heard him utter the phrase even _once_....

If anyone has it on tape anywhere, I'd _love_ to hear it...

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## Mike Bunting

As far as most of us know, the only witness to that statement was Sam Bush. More and more, I find that the statement applies to more and more things in modern life  :Smile:

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lowtone2

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## big smiley guy

I've heard it attributed to his thoughts on the Newgrass movement.

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## Earl Gamage

I have heard it was about dobro and I have heard it was about Elvis doing Blue Moon of Kentucky.  Who knows :Smile:

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DavidKOS

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## Gary Hedrick

The statement comes from the book " Can't You Hear Me Callin'" by Richard Smith.

As for having a recording of I don't have one but I do recall him speaking in those terms about new grass.....

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## Mandolin Mick

The way I've heard it told ... Mr. Bill asked Sam Bush, "What do you call that music you play?" Bush, "Newgrass?" Mr. Bill, "Yeah, I hate that!" or "That ain't no part of nuthin." I forget, but he apparently used it as a figure of speech frequently.

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## OldSausage

He said it to me when I showed him the space where the cuckoo I hadn't made to fit into a cuckoo clock that I didn't have was.

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Rush Burkhardt, 

Tony S

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## MoBob

Monroe's standard response to  playing he thought in bad taste, according to Kenny Baker.

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## Ed Goist

In a wonderful example of irony, I believe Monroe used this phrase to refer to the phrase itself, and it's association with the English language.

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## Pete Hicks

He once said' "If you can't play twin fiddle you ain't no part of nuthin,"  discussing fiddlers with Eddie Ducomun.

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## Rex Hart

Wonder if any one makes a tee shirt with that phrase on it?

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## Paul 64

When referring to New Grass revival, Mr. Bill said at least once, "They're really wonderful", and "they can really sing and play"

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## Mike Bunting

> Wonder if any one makes a tee shirt with that phrase on it?


 Yes, and he's a member of the 'cafe. Jim?

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## Gary Hedrick

I got taken to the "woodshed" a few times by Mr. Monroe as a young teenager.  He woudl show you how he wanted it and expected you to do it. ....period......he could get frustrated with you very quickly.   But I was so awed that he took the time to work with my brother and me that I can't complain......it just caused my knees to knock together.....

But he would express his displeasure in terse terms....."That ain't it"     etc  so using the double negatives and being terse fits right in with the man of few words.

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## AlanN

> it was about Elvis doing Blue Moon of Kentucky.


Them was some powerful checks... :Mandosmiley:

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## Perry Babasin

I have a documentary DVD about Bill, and on the topic of Elvis doing "Blue Moon of Kentucky" he says that "If it helped him get his start, it was fine by him"... Perhaps the residual checks that rolled in as writer of the afore mentioned tune tempered his opinion a bit... Great documentary BTW, I highly recommend it... Bill Monroe - Father of Bluegrass Music, not one cranky comment and a bunch of cool people reminiscing, including interviews with Bill by John Hartford and others...

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## Jethrob

Good thing Big Mon' never heard the Kentucky Headhunters version of "Walk Softly".

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## Mike Bunting

> Good thing Big Mon' never heard the Kentucky Headhunters version of "Walk Softly".


You might be surprised.

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## ralph johansson

> Good thing Big Mon' never heard the Kentucky Headhunters version of "Walk Softly".



There's a video of Monroe and the Headhunters performing the song together. Check their myspace!

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## ralph johansson

> I have a documentary DVD about Bill, and on the topic of Elvis doing "Blue Moon of Kentucky" he says that "If it helped him get his start, it was fine by him"... Perhaps the residual checks that rolled in as writer of the afore mentioned tune tempered his opinion a bit... Great documentary BTW, I highly recommend it... Bill Monroe - Father of Bluegrass Music, not one cranky comment and a bunch of cool people reminiscing, including interviews with Bill by John Hartford and others...


Monroe dug Presley much because of his roots in gospel music. He encouraged the Stanley Brothers to cover Presley's version.

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## M.Marmot

> I have a documentary DVD about Bill, and on the topic of Elvis doing "Blue Moon of Kentucky" he says that "If it helped him get his start, it was fine by him"... Perhaps the residual checks that rolled in as writer of the afore mentioned tune tempered his opinion a bit... Great documentary BTW, I highly recommend it... Bill Monroe - Father of Bluegrass Music, not one cranky comment and a bunch of cool people reminiscing, including interviews with Bill by John Hartford and others...


I do believe that very documentary, amongst others, is free to stream on Folkstreams.net

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## Lachlan

> Monroe dug Presley much because of his roots in gospel music. He encouraged the Stanley Brothers to cover Presley's version.


True enough.  As a matter of fact, Bill told Carter and Ralph to record it right away, even before he recorded the up-tempo version.  He said something along the lines of, "You boys should record that song as soon as you can.  I'm going to record it myself next week."

That there's some part of somethin'.   <-- (You can quote ME on that one.)   :Mandosmiley:

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## Steven Simpson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq5KHbrUr8g

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## Spruce

> 


"That ain't no part of nothin'"...    :Wink:

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## f5loar

Monroe was so impressed with those Kentucy Headhunters he invited them to play his Beanblossom Festival and they did!

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## billkilpatrick

> He said it to me when I showed him the space where the cuckoo I hadn't made to fit into a cuckoo clock that I didn't have was.


i'm going to have to go with o.s. here.  when mr. monroe repeated his legendary bon mot in my presence, discussion - at times heated, i must confess - seemed to revolve around the proper use of english.

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## brunello97

> i'm going to have to go with o.s. here.  when mr. monroe repeated his legendary bon mot in my presence, discussion - at times heated, i must confess - seemed to revolve around the proper use of english.


For various reasons, my mother couldn't tolerate the man.  "Bad grammar and bad manners" she used to say. I think it had something to do with wearing that dopey hat indoors.  I don't remember her having an opinion on his mandolin playing.

Mick

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## billkilpatrick

i think your mom and i would get along ... his music is marvelous - no doubt about it - but i think he was just a big bully.  

i remember seeing a b/w photo a huge hall filled with couples sitting down to dinner.  all the men had their western hats on - looked like a room full of ladies setting beside giant, peculiarly shaped mushrooms

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## Laird

> The way I've heard it told ... Mr. Bill asked Sam Bush, "What do you call that music you play?" Bush, "Newgrass?" Mr. Bill, [. . .] "That ain't no part of nuthin."


This is the version I've always heard.

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## norm351

Re: "That ain't no part of nothin' "
Good thing Big Mon' never heard the Kentucky Headhunters version of "Walk Softly".

maybe he did, he was still alive when they did it, and I liked it, and I really believe he might have to, I've read that when early members of the Bluegrass Boys moved on like Lester & Earl, and others Mr Monroe wasn't to flattered with them playing his music, but as years went on and he realized what he had started, well they say he seemed to mellow on a lot of things...Except Dobros, I understand he never did like them...LOL.

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## Mike Bunting

> Re: "That ain't no part of nothin' "
> Good thing Big Mon' never heard the Kentucky Headhunters version of "Walk Softly".
> 
> maybe he did, he was still alive when they did it, and I liked it, and I really believe he might have to, I've read that when early members of the Bluegrass Boys moved on like Lester & Earl, and others Mr Monroe wasn't to flattered with them playing his music, but as years went on and he realized what he had started, well they say he seemed to mellow on a lot of things...Except Dobros, I understand he never did like them...LOL.


See post #32

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norm351

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## Ivan Kelsall

I believe that he got the phrase from this Tee-shirt , :Grin: 
                                                                       Ivan :Wink:

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## norm351

Thanks Mike, I saw that after I had posted mine, great video, I had never seen it be for...

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## journeybear

> There's a video of Monroe and the Headhunters performing the song together. Check their myspace!





> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq5KHbrUr8g





> "That ain't no part of nothin'"...


Thank you, gentlemen, for this interchange. Pretty wild! And yes, if I understand my grammar correctly - that is part of something, all right, yes indeedy!

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## Hendrik Ahrend

Peter Rowan repeatedly told this story on stage as an introduction to "The Walls of Time". In the early '60s, when Pete was a B. G. Boy, they were approaching Bean Blossom. There was this big sign saying (something like): "Welcome to Bean Blossom Indiana, home of Bill Mambo and his Bluegrass Boys." Later on stage, Bill introduced Pete as "Pete Rowns" and asked what song Peter had picked out that day, whereupon Pete made up something and started singing (with mambo guitar rythm): "Bill Mambo attha bluegrass festival …" Bill: "Pete, what have you done, that ain't no part o' bluegrass music, that ain't no part o' nothin'! You better listen to this and don't you ever forget it." And they went straight into "The Walls of Time". 
Funny story, I find. We should ask Pete, if there is any truth to it or if he just sets great store by Mark Twain.

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## billkilpatrick

> ... if I understand my grammar correctly - that is part of something, all right, yes indeedy!


this is the problem.  as was pointed out earlier, it's a triple negative: "ain't ... no part ... nothing."  if changed to the positive, the sentence reads "that is a part of something" - which is clear, concise and to the point.  if mr. monroe's intention was negative; to dictate an expression of displeasure and disdain - something along the lines of "we are not amused" - he would have said "that ain't a part of this thing" - or "our thing."  to indicate that something is "no part" of "nothing" would perforce make it a part of something.

right?

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## OldSausage

Not quite. There are two ways to parse it:

That is not (not a part) of nothing = That is a part of nothing

Or

That is  not (not (a part of nothing)) . Because its ambiguous what something is if it is not a part of nothing, it's impossible to parse without making an assumption. If we assume that means it's a part of something, then the sentence reads "that is not a part of something."

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## journeybear

Dang persnickety mandolin pickers! Always pick-pick-pickin' apart thangs till there ain't no thang no more!  :Mad:  That there clip of Bill Monroe jammin' with them Kaintuck Head Cases *is* part of something, all right, and that's all I gotta say 'bout that!  :Mad:

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## billkilpatrick

> Not quite. There are two ways to parse it: That is not (not a part) of nothing = That is a part of nothing Or That is  not (not (a part of nothing)) . Because its ambiguous what something is if it is not a part of nothing, it's impossible to parse without making an assumption. If we assume that means it's a part of something, then the sentence reads "that is not a part of something."


ok - let me get this straight: if i understand correctly, what mr. monroe is saying is this (allowing for the fact that "ain't" ain't a word):

that is - is not a no part - of no thing

it's the part where he says "is not a no part" that's causing me to gnash my teeth and wrinkle my brow - sounds vaguely french and lefty

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## multidon

You know, I love that quote. I'm no expert on bluegrass or Monroe but the story I heard was that Bill and some of his guys were jamming with some younger players (Newgrass? Not sure). One of the younger players took a solo that pretty wild and "out there". After the solo, Bill supposedly said "Son, that ain't no part of nothin!", which I took to mean (my interpretation) that the solo was very far removed from the original song. I seemed to me that, when I heard the story (and I have no idea whether it was told to me straight or not) Bill was trying to say that, if you take a solo, even an improvised one, there should be at least some of the song in there somewhere. To me it was very much the same sentiment expressed by another fine musician in a completely different genre, Les Paul, who said something like (don't know if I have the exact phrasing here) "If you're going get away from the original melody, make sure what you come up with is better!".

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## Marty Henrickson

I can state for a fact that Monroe was NOT 


> vaguely french and lefty


!

I'm also pretty sure we all know what he meant by "That ain't no part of nothin'", whether our English teachers would approve of his use of language or not.  "We are not amused" pretty much nails it, but sounds more like some "vaguely lefty and french" monarch might say, rather than a musician from Kentucky, born in the early 20th Century.  The man was a great songwriter, he certainly knew how to get his point across.

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## Joe Mendel

Peter Rowan told the same story when he toured with the Nashville Bluegrass Band in the late 1980s. It was very funny. I always thought the Peter made up the story just so he could use the quote attributed to Bill.

[QUOTE=Henry Eagle;1067684]Peter Rowan repeatedly told this story on stage as an introduction to "The Walls of Time". In the early '60s, when Pete was a B. G. Boy, they were approaching Bean Blossom. There was this big sign saying (something like): "Welcome to Bean Blossom Indiana, home of Bill Mambo and his Bluegrass Boys." Later on stage, Bill introduced Pete as "Pete Rowns" and asked what song Peter had picked out that day, whereupon Pete made up something and started singing (with mambo guitar rythm): "Bill Mambo attha bluegrass festival …" Bill: "Pete, what have you done, that ain't no part o' bluegrass music, that ain't no part o' nothin'! You better listen to this and don't you ever forget it." And they went straight into "The Walls of Time".

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## OldSausage

Ceci n'est pas une part o' nuthin'

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## journeybear

Mais non, monsieur, c'est pres mais pas de cigare: Ceci n'est pas un part de rien.  :Wink:  

Calling all fans of PhotoShop and Magritte - have at it!  :Grin:

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## AlanN

This thread ANPON  :Mandosmiley:

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journeybear

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## Spruce

> This thread ANPON


My next bluegrass band...
The Infamous Anpons...




> Peter Rowan repeatedly told this story on stage as an introduction to "The Walls of Time". In the early '60s, when Pete was a B. G. Boy, they were approaching Bean Blossom. There was this big sign saying (something like): "Welcome to Bean Blossom Indiana, home of Bill Mambo and his Bluegrass Boys." Later on stage, Bill introduced Pete as "Pete Rowns" and asked what song Peter had picked out that day, whereupon Pete made up something and started singing (with mambo guitar rythm): "Bill Mambo attha bluegrass festival " Bill: "Pete, what have you done, that ain't no part o' bluegrass music, that ain't no part o' nothin'! You better listen to this and don't you ever forget it." And they went straight into "The Walls of Time". 
> Funny story, I find. We should ask Pete, if there is any truth to it or if he just sets great store by Mark Twain.


Ya know, _all_ those Bean Blossom shows are on multiple tapes, and are all out there...

I for one, would _kill_ to hear Mr. Bill utter those infamous words...

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## jaycat

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I grew up in the South and have heard this expression many times in my younger days. It's not like Bill Monroe coined it.

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Marty Henrickson

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## journeybear

No kidding! The saying, the attribution, who said this about whom and why this particular time, this thread about that - all of that ain't no part of nothin'. But that ain't enough to keep this from being somethin' - even if it really ain't nothin', and no part of it, neither.  :Wink:  Like I said - Dang persnickety mandolin pickers! Always pick-pick-pickin' apart thangs till there ain't no thang no more!  :Laughing: 

I think it's really pretty clear this saying will not survive strict grammatical scrutiny. However, as I think many if not most or even all those who have lived in the South will attest, using negatives in this fashion, even in multiples, is a regional idiomatic custom, used to place emphasis on the speaker's negative opinion regarding whatever matter is at hand. The more negatives included, the more emphasis being expressed. One could add "nohow," or "no way," or both, or more, to the end of the saying. But ain't necessary, nohow - Bill made his point mighty clear with three negatives.  :Wink:

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## billkilpatrick

quella non è una parte di niente ... que no es una parte de la nada ... Ist dies nicht ein Teil nichts ... że nie jest częścią nic nie jest ... and here it is hatian creole: ki pa yon pati nan pa gen anyen - how about croatian?

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## multidon

How about Atthay Yaintway Onay Artpay Yofway Othingnay?

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## billkilpatrick

"there's much in what you say that pleaseth me - speak on, man!"

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## Hendrik Ahrend

That should sum it up: "Das Nichts nichtet." (Heidegger) Too bad it wasn't ol' Bill, who said that. Now it's back to listening to (and playing) his music for me.

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## billkilpatrick

heidegger in the cafe - got to be a first - does henry get a prize or anything?

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## Beanzy

Non, Rien De Rien, Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien
Ni Le Bien Qu'on M'a Fait, Ni Le Mal

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## catmandu2

> heidegger in the cafe - got to be a first - does henry get a prize or anything?


Well, my sig line DOES come from the forward to Heidegger's "Poetry, Language, Thought"

(just sayin)

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## catmandu2

But what the hey, I think I'll change it now to H proper-

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## billkilpatrick

sorry cat ... henry quoted him in doytitch - you just got to be impressed!

"non, je ne regrette rien" - edith piaf must have been a robot haiku

shouldn't have said that
would have done it different
photo-less wallet

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## brunello97

> heidegger in the cafe - got to be a first - does henry get a prize or anything?


This got me thinking. Just did a search of sorts, Bill, and turned this up.  

Never been much of a Bill Monroe fan but this album looks phenomenol(ogical.)

Mick

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## billkilpatrick

an existentialist! ... i knew it!!

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## brunello97

> an existentialist! ... i knew it!!


I heard he did enjoy a morning cup of Kafka.

Mick

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## billkilpatrick

"being and time" - mamma-mia ... it was the '60's ...

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## journeybear

> This got me thinking. Just did a search of sorts, Bill, and turned this up.  
> 
> Never been much of a Bill Monroe fan but this album looks phenomenol(ogical.)


Uh huh. Did a search - where? Your PhotoShop files?  :Grin: 



Nice job, though. And nice hat. Almost surreal, right there.

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## billkilpatrick

... the image of which brings us back nicely to the title of this thread ...

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## catmandu2

> an existentialist! ... i knew it!!


No no...a nihlist   :Wink:

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## journeybear

Estragon: Well, shall we go?
Vladimir: Yes, let's go.

_They do not move._

[Curtain, or fade to black]

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## billkilpatrick

times like these, i reach for my mandolin ...

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## Hendrik Ahrend

[QUOTE=billkilpatrick;1068104]sorry cat ... henry quoted him in doytitch - you just got to be impressed!

You crack me up, billkilpatrick! I fooled you, didn't I? German quotes are relatively easy for a German. And heck, I couldn't quote more Heidegger to save my life. (Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.)

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## brunello97

> No no...a nihlist


To quote another important 20th c philosopher "That must be exhausting."

Mick

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## billkilpatrick

you're lucky - if i stay silent my wife thinks i'm in a mood

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## journeybear

I hope you realize how lucky YOU are. Work that to your advantage.  :Wink:  You know ... "Try as I may, I could never explain what I hear when you don't say a thing" and "you say it best when you say nothing at all." (Warning: actual MC coming ...)

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## journeybear

Nothing covers a lot of ground ... nothing contains everything ... nothing IS everything ... 

From the sacred to the profane, from the sublime to the ridiculous ... from a coupla bunches of hippies, who surely know nothing, and have nothing to say ...







I know, nothing ain't no part of nothin' .. well, nothing ain't worth nothing, but it's free.  :Wink:

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## Beanzy

So he said it about newgrass? or a rubbish solo?, or something?. 
But it weren't "no part of nothing". 
Presumably because it was something which was part of the nothing?

Does all this give you a headache?
Nothing works faster than Anadin. 
Could newgrass be the active ingredient in hedache cures?

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## journeybear

Not for nothin', but ...

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## lowtone2

It was Bill's response to a hot dog vendor asking if he wanted ketchup.

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