# Music by Genre > Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex >  Old Time song accompaniment style

## misterstormalong

I bought a mandolin a few years ago but have only just started to focus on it. It's an Eastman MD504 (A-style with oval hole). It wasn't my original intention, but I'd now like to use it for Old Time song accompaniment. When I mention this to people they usually raise their eyebrows and tell me to get a guitar. Using open chords, however, this model has quite a ring and a lot of sustain and I think it sounds good.

From what I've been told and from what I've seen on Youtube, however, I get the impression that singers using mandolin accompaniment tend to favour closed chords or dampen the strings to create a more rhythmic style of accompaniment.

So which way should I go?

Richard

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## Jim Garber

Go with your ears! I would think that open chords, assuming you are the only accompaniment to your singing, make the most sense. Bluegrass players use the chop and closed chords but that is usually as part of a band -- the mandolin is almost a percussion instrument. In a solo situation it would wear thin pretty quickly.

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## Jim Nollman

didn't mean to respond here. please delete this.

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## JeffD

Old time gives you lots of options. As long as its not a bluegrass chop I think its probably fine. Listen a lot and work to fit in.

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## Charles E.

The Blue Sky Boys are an example of the best Old Time mandolin work on a song.

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Jim Nollman, 

Ryk Loske

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## John Flynn

This is repeat of a post I made on another thread. I think it has some great advice in it, none of which I take credit for:

The following is part of a description of John Hartford's concept of a "window" rhythm approach for old-time published on the liner notes of his album "The Speed of the Old Long Bow." Basically, "window" means you can change up these possibilities every eight measures. I don't count the measures, I usually change up as a part ends and another begins. But here are the options Hartford talks about**:

"Everybody has a bunch of things they can do on their instruments - you can 1) play rhythm on the down beat, 2) play rhythm on the off beat, 3) play a figure, like boogie woogie, 4) play a figure, like high or low bass runs, 5) play unison lead, 6) play harmony, 7) deaden your strings and play rhythm things, 8) play 4/4 chromatic runs, 9) play straight open chord rhythm, 10) play closed chords, 11) always play just one note like the tonic or 12) you can just lay out."

Also, some good advice I got independently from two very good OT mandolin players was that when playing rhythm to accentuate the bass strings and go really light on the treble with a mandolin. Otherwise, your chords can sound shrill.

Finally, I'll recommend that if you are inclined at some point to obtain an octave mandolin, you will get some strange looks when you first join a jam, but after a tune or two, everyone seems pretty happy with how the OM's unique sound blends in.

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k0k0peli, 

Mark Miller, 

red7flag

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## JeffD

> The Blue Sky Boys are an example of the best Old Time mandolin work on a song.


I agree. One could do well to emulate them.

I recently got a box set of the Blue Sky Boys and its in my eternal mp3 Old Time rotation.

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Charles E.

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## A 4

There is a lot of good information in this thread from the Spring; I was asking pretty similar questions: 
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...Strum-Patterns
As I said, the information was very helpful, and I had no experience playing with anybody.  Helpful, because it gave me some ideas, and some level of comfort.  

Now, on the other hand...One thing I didn't take to heart, but a bunch of the replies at least hinted at, was "don't worry too much about it."   There are lots of ways to play that work well.  John Flynn's description of "windows" was great, because you can rotate through several playing methods in the course of one song.  In this group, each song would be repeated an indeterminate number of times, chosen by the person who picked the song, so there were lots of "windows" to work with.  

As far as your actual question, mandolin is a fine instrument for this.  I didn't play chop chord patterns at first, because it was really hard not to chop them if my hands were in that position.  Sometimes ringing chords were good, and sometimes muting them was good, and sometimes, on the real barn burners, chopping was OK, too.  

In my case, when the jam was small, the only guitar player would switch to banjo when I got there, because I could play the chords and rhythm, and he preferred learning banjo.  In those times, I could try and be really solid, but when there were a guitar or two, there was more room for experimentation. I suppose my "go to" patterns were bass-strum if there was not a guitar player.  If there was, I would start with that or a one two-and three four-and, which sounded to me sort of like a shuffle rhythm, and then other things.  

I only got to play with that group 6 or 7 times, and I've moved away.  I'll miss that.  I learned so much.

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## misterstormalong

Thanks for all the responses. There are some really helpful leads here. It's the sort of thing you just can't get from books!

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## Greg Stec

[QUOTE=The Blue Sky Boys are an example of the best Old Time mandolin work on a song.[/QUOTE]

Another group I like for OT music is the Stoneman Family.  Their repertoire was a mixed bag of country music, performing OT to bluegrass.  The leader was Ernest "Pop" Stoneman (d. 1968).  What I liked about them was their "philosophy" of not pigeon-holing themselves into one style of country music.  If the song worked for the band, and they like it, they performed it.
Here's a link to a recording Pop did in 1924 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skSUX7pNmSU

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## misterstormalong

Pop Stoneman's 'Sinking of the Titanic' is actually one of the songs in the repertoire I'm developing. I'm also doing Roscoe Holcomb's 'John Hardy'. The others I've drawn from more recent artists.





> Another group I like for OT music is the Stoneman Family.  Their repertoire was a mixed bag of country music, performing OT to bluegrass.  The leader was Ernest "Pop" Stoneman (d. 1968).  What I liked about them was their "philosophy" of not pigeon-holing themselves into one style of country music.  If the song worked for the band, and they like it, they performed it.
> Here's a link to a recording Pop did in 1924 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skSUX7pNmSU

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## Greg Stec

> Pop Stoneman's 'Sinking of the Titanic' is actually one of the songs in the repertoire I'm developing. I'm also doing Roscoe Holcomb's 'John Hardy'. The others I've drawn from more recent artists.


Another duo similar to The Blue Sky Boys were McFarland and Gardner. Sometimes called Mac and Bob or even The Miller Brothers.  They were blind performers.  Research them at your leisure.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9CGZ1Px-ao

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## wildpikr

FWIW another good example is Mike Compton's playing on John Hartford's "Wild Hog in the Red Brush".

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## misterstormalong

Thanks Greg and Mike - I've ordered some CDs!

Rik

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## Maunus

I tend to go for a very rhythmical approach myself, basically using the mandolin almost as a percussion instrument. I also tend to take inspiration from clawhammer playing.

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## dan@kins

Long - Long - Short.

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## misterstormalong

Since starting this thread I've joined a local session/workshop that plays upbeat 'Americana'. I don't want to get involved in a demarcation dispute between Old Time and Bluegrass, but I suppose this group is somewhere in the middle – skiffle perhaps. The group definitely doesn't conform to a strict Bluegrass style, but they are very keen on an upbeat, boom-chick approach, and are not interested in slow 'folky' stuff.

In an effort to fit in I switched from 'brushed open chords' to a guitar-style 'bass note, open chord'. This seems like a reasonable compromise for the time being. I've also started to attempt chop chords, but I think they're going to take a long time to master.

I hope I don't cause offence by crossing any Old Time/Bluegrass boundaries, but this is where I find myself…

I think I will probably need a variety of styles for different situations and songs. When I'm performing on my own I do tend to do the slower, folkier stuff, but it's also a great experience to play in a group.

Rik

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## Beanzy

Here's some inspiration with just fiddle, bowl back mandolin, guitar and voice.

Floyd Ming and his pepsteppers.

http://youtu.be/8sw16IQxTbk

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## k0k0peli

Hallmarks of old-time playing, whether dulcimer, fiddle, or mandolin, include open or sawmill tunings and ringing drones. I mostly play solo and I prefer the 'Irish' GDAD tuning, with most of my fingering on the lower 3 courses. This works well in C, D, F, G, and A, and not-so-well in E, B, or accidental keys. But who plays old-timey in Ab?  :Wink:

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## Jack Roberts

I play a lot of old hymns and revival tunes with both closed and open chords.  On occasion I'll chop if the tune sounds more grassy than oldie-timey, but for the most part it is full chords.  I'm at the mercy of the singers in our band as to what key they want to sing in, so I use more closed chords than open ones.  

Very recently I have taken up playing the melody and singing along.  It is not so easy, but it is a very good sound, as I can play double stops and create close harmony without having another singer as well as put in an ornamentation here and there while I take a breath. There is a lot of precedent for singing along while playing the melody among OT fiddle players.

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## JeffD

There is some good stuff on how to fit a mandolin into old time in this interview:

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## Andy B

I also recommend listening to and watching (lots of You Tube videos) Caleb Klauder's mandolin playing with the Foghorn String Band.  He does many different things for backup, including melodic fills, but he also uses kind of a fiddle shuffle on the high strings in place of a bluegrass style chop on uptempo songs like Columbus Stockade Blues.  His playing is very interesting to watch and a lot of fun to listen to.

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## JeffD

Earlier in the thread the Blue Sky Boys were mentioned. I recently attended a mandolin workshop strongly recommending listening to and emulating the Blue Sky Boys.

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## Tobin

> I also recommend listening to and watching (lots of You Tube videos) Caleb Klauder's mandolin playing with the Foghorn String Band.  He does many different things for backup, including melodic fills, but he also uses kind of a fiddle shuffle on the high strings in place of a bluegrass style chop on uptempo songs like Columbus Stockade Blues.  His playing is very interesting to watch and a lot of fun to listen to.


It seems like every time I hear Caleb Klauder's playing, I hear something new he's doing.  A good example of what you're talking about, I think, can be heard in _Stagger Lee_.  Those high mandolin notes as fill notes behind the fiddle really sound great.

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## misterstormalong

As the OP I was interested to see this thread revived. A year or so down the line I've developed a basic style that seems to work for me:

https://youtu.be/UNJf5EfTHPw
https://youtu.be/a0jh5B-iMPA
https://youtu.be/LTWKjUyqP4c

My next step is to start adding melody as I raised here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ming&p=1427572

Rik

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