# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  tenor ukulele tuned in fifth ?

## kkmm

I have a tenor ukulele, very good sounding (all solid wood). Since I did not play ukulele that much, yesterday, I tune it as F C G D (two half steps lower than mandolin), using the D/G/B/E  nylon strings of a guitar. From this point, I can play all the mandolin tunes I used to play (with or without a cape at fret#2).

I am wondering if there are better (nylon) string set for 17-inch scale and what notes they should be tuned to ?

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## Marty Jacobson

Aquila makes a GDAE nylon mandolin set that works on a 15 inch scale uke-telecaster-thing I built for my kids. I believe each set comes with eight strings, so you effectively get two sets in each pack. You could try tuning it up to GDAE, but you'll probably need to tune it to CGDA (mandola) on a 17" scale tenor.

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## Jacob

I use AQUILA 31U CONCERT UKE SET - NYLGUT, FIFTHS TUNING - Tuned to CGDA, bass to treb, two wound strings for (tenor) mandola tuning on 17 inch scale ukuleles. My four & eight string tenors sound really nice with these. (nfi)

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## kkmm

Thanks for the info, that's exactly what I am looking for.
Now, I figure that the soprano ukulele's scale length is much closer to the mandolin's.

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## jmp

I'd also like to try Uke tuned in fifths. I just can't get my head around standard Uke tuning because it is too weird for me not to have all the notes go from low to high as you move across the strings. My musical brain is just too linear I guess.

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## fox

Just surf back through the threads, there are more post about tuning ukes than you can shake a stick at!

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## kkmm

I could not play a whole lot of songs with ukulele tuning (high G) !!! With tuning in fifth (like mandolin / mandola), I can play my entire mandolin repertoire (and virtually any tune I know of, including tremolo). The sound is warmer due to nylon strings and louder due to the larger body of the tenor ukulele (compared to mandolins which I have two).

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## Steve Zawacki

I have all five of my ukes (one a tenor) tuned GDAE.  The easiest way to do it is one of two ways, both starting with a standard ukulele GCEA set of strings already packaged for that size ukulele.  Recommend getting a string set which has a low-G string (rather than the reentrant high-G string).

1.  Leave the low-G as-is, up-tune the C to D, swap the E and A strings around.  This will give you G3-D4-A4-E4 which will allow you to use your "regular" GDAE chording.  The E will be an octave lower than you are used to, but sounds good on the smaller-bodied uke.

2.  All of the above, except replace the E with 20-lb monofilament nylon fishing line.  This will tune to E5 rather than E4 if you want true "fifths" tuning.   The 20-lb line has the tensile strength to handle the stress without popping.

Would recommend using the wound low-G string, as it will be a narrower diameter than an unwound low-G string.  The uke nut will most likely be sized for a high-G (very thin) string, and you'll find it necessary to re-size the G slot to accommodate the wider low-G.  

If you decide to leave a high-G string in place instead of using a low-G, the sound will be different, somewhat higher overall in pitch.  It's an "ear" thing and no right or wrong way to set it up, but I prefer the low-G sound.

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cunparis

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## kkmm

I am glad that many folks tune ukes in fifth for various reason, I only though about it two days ago. Intend to bring it (and one guitar) to this Sunday picnic as my mandolins will not sound loud enough near the beach.




> The uke nut will most likely be sized for a high-G (very thin) string, and you'll find it necessary to re-size the G slot to accommodate the wider low-G.


My tenor uke has the zero fret as I intentionally built it this way, to avoid all kind of nut issues. So the nut slots are simply to seperate the strings, the slots are filed wide to handle low-G and high-G of course is OK.
If the E string is one octave lower than intended than playing melody would sound weird for most songs.

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## Steve Zawacki

> I am glad that many folks tune ukes in fifth for various reason, I only though about it two days ago. Intend to bring it (and one guitar) to this Sunday picnic as my mandolins will not sound loud enough near the beach.
> 
> 
> My tenor uke has the zero fret as I intentionally built it this way, to avoid all kind of nut issues. So the nut slots are simply to seperate the strings, the slots are filed wide to handle low-G and high-G of course is OK.
> *If the E string is one octave lower than intended than playing melody would sound weird for most songs*.


Not at all.  It's sound is basically no different than a uke with the standard uke GCEA tuning, the exception being the C had been slightly upped to D.  Otherwise, how the song sounds when played by a uke using low-G GCEA is pretty much the same.  Think of it as "GDEA" instead of GCEA and the A and E strings transposed.  

The real difference on a uke is when the E4 string has been swapped put to the E5 that a mandolin uses. To me, on a uke the sound is a little tinny and thin.  Keeping the E4 string in a smaller-resonator instrument takes advantage of what the instrument was designed to project.  E5 is a very high note and can come out really weak and screechy on a uke.  The G4 high-G string is about as high as most ukes can project well - E5 is really pushing the envelope, except maybe with a baritone uke.

I have tried E5 on all of my ukes and discarded it on all of them in favor of the E4.  Three of these ukes also are amplified (a RISA Solid Soprano, a Lanikai Concert and a Lanikai Tenor), and the difference really comes out through the amp.

Also, if you decide to try the Aquila 5ths GDAE uke string package, take care in installing the E string as it's meant for smaller-scaled ukes than tenor.   That Aquila E string is mighty thin.  Have had a couple snap during installation which had me go to the 20-lb test alternative which works through tenor scale.  The Aquila compound doesn't take rapid stretching well, so taking it to B or at most C for a day, letting it stabilize there, and then g e n t l y bringing into E5 gives the best hope of not having it snap.  Once it settles in at E5 it seems to endure well on smaller-scaled ukes.

Don't get me wrong - I like the E5 sound.  My only grief is that there are really few reliable uke E5 alternatives out there, and none for tenor except the 20-lb test alternative that I've found.  Am always interested in trying something which won't snap easily and give a half-decent spund representation.

One more thing.  Aquila's GDAE package is for Soprano-scaled ukes.  Aquila's fifths package for the larger Concert ukes is CGDA.  The CGDA package may stretch to tenor, and maybe not.  That's why I tried adapting strings already cut for tenor-scale.

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## kkmm

> Not at all. It's sound is basically no different than a uke with the standard uke GCEA tuning


I agree on this when playing chord, as long as the same notes ring, regardless which strings they came from. What I meant is the melody part.
For example when one tries to play C5 D5 E5 , but hears C5 D5 E4 instead. That's a different melody.

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## Steve Zawacki

> I agree on this when playing chord, as long as the same notes ring, regardless which strings they came from. What I meant is the melody part.
> For example when one tries to play C5 D5 E5 , but hears C5 D5 E4 instead. That's a different melody.


Agree.  I hope you find a better solution to the E5 string selection problem on a tenor uke than I have. The 20-lb test has an "okay" sound, but that's about all.

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## kkmm

I indicated in my first post that I simply use the D G B E strings of a nylon guitar, and after a few trial/error I found that tuning them as D A E B  produce the best sounding for my tenor ukulele: all 4 strings have balanced sound.
I believe the string set posted in post#3 link will produce a better alternative, I have to order one set later.

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## Steve Zawacki

I've had the Aquila 31U CGDA Concert set.   Did not try it on a tenor uke.  Did use the GDA from that set on a concert uke with the 20-lb E and it was okay.

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## kkmm

Hmm... I am looking at 8 strings (4 courses, double string each) tenor ukulele. If tuned in fifth with proper string set, it will play like a mandola / mandolin with nylon strings. I need to sell off some from my collection to buy one of these (and mainly to keep my instrument collection small).

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## Jacob

I have an *Oscar Schmidt OU28T* tuned CGDA with 2 of the Aquila 31U sets. I am quite pleased by the sound of this inexpensive ukulele turned mandola. Available from around $100 online. (nfi)

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fox

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## Steve Zawacki

> I have an *Oscar Schmidt OU28T* tuned CGDA with 2 of the Aquila 31U sets. I am quite pleased by the sound of this inexpensive ukulele turned mandola. Available from around $100 online. (nfi)


Very interesting...... Do you happen to have a sound sample?

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## Jacob

Sorry, I don't have one. It sounds the best to me when played with a medium guitar flat pick.

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## Steve Zawacki

Well, all this discussion got me to rip my ukes apart.  After a morning of experimentation, stringing/restringing, tuning/retuning and such, the following totally unscientific conclusions have resulted:

1.  Tenor Ukulele - retuned my tenor to G3-D4-A4-E5.  The strings are a set of standard tenor GCEA (low-G) with the G used as-is, the C tuned up to D, the E tossed out and the A used as-is, and the 20-lb test E5 installed.  It sounds fine and I'll keep this set-up for a while.  Strung this way, it's true Fifths and has the physical comfort to play like a small tenor guitar.

2.  Concert Ukukele - took my remaining Aquila 30U GDAE for soprano ukes and installed them on a Concert Uke.  The E was brought into tune v e r y  g e n t l y to keep it from snapping (paranoia from past bad experiences here).  Even with the increased scale length over soprano ukes the Aquilas have held (fingers crossed, but it does look okay).  So, here's an even smaller tenor guitar-like instrument.

3.  Soprano Ukulele - try as I may, I can not get an E5 string to sound worth a darn.  Tried it on two different sopranos (a Flea pineapple and a RISA Solid).  The E5 is tinny, harsh and just painful to me.  Went back to an E4 string and the soprano sounds pleasant to the ears as G3-D4-A4-E4.

Conclusions - The Tenor and Concert Ukuleles can be comfortably adapted to G3-D4-A4-E5 and played similar to tenor guitars (or mandolins).  The sound is "higher" due to the smaller resonator size and scale, but quite acceptable.  

- For travel purposes, the Concert Ukulele can become a half-decent travel instrument where hauling a full-sized tenor guitar may not be possible.  If the Concert Ukulele is something like the Lanikai LQA-CCA which is an acoustic-electric equipped with a Fishman pickup/preamp, traveling with it may have its advantages.

- The Soprano Ukuleles are not willing "sound-quality" partners to an E5 string.  The E4 is the natural partner to the small size and scale Soprano.  Whichever string is chosen and for whatever reasons it's chosen, the Soprano Ukulele at GDAE (E4 or E5) can be an ultra-small travel instrument which fits into any carryon bag (very true about the RISA).

- The Aquila 30U (GDAE Soprano) and 31U (CGDA Concert) are more adaptable than marketed, but installation takes a gentle hand. Once stabilized, they can be treated as any nylon strings are.  There are also ways to use low-G GCEA Tenor, Concert and Soprano strings coupled with an E5 using 20lb test monofilament/fluorocarbon/other fishing line, and the availability of these strings/line over special-order Aquilas has its advantages.

I need to stop reading this board, as it always gets me inso some kind of project........

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Jacob

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## kkmm

Hi Jacob,
I am glad knowing that this has been done (8 string ukulele tuned as mandola).

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## FatBear

How are you picking the strings?  Fingers, fingernails, flat picks, ...?

I have a baritone ukulele strung with the 31U set and tuned GDAE and the strings are really bouncy.  I use a pick, just like when I play the mandolin, but I have a hard time keeping the strings from buzzing against the pick.  I'm sure there is some problem with my technique, but I don't have this problem with my steel stringed instruments.

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## darrylicshon

I have a harmony soprano ukulele that i never play.i will have to change the tuning maybe i will play it more

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## Steve Zawacki

> How are you picking the strings?  Fingers, fingernails, flat picks, ...?
> 
> I have a baritone ukulele strung with the 31U set and tuned GDAE and the strings are really bouncy.  I use a pick, just like when I play the mandolin, but I have a hard time keeping the strings from buzzing against the pick.  I'm sure there is some problem with my technique, but I don't have this problem with my steel stringed instruments.


i thumb-strum/pick and use a flat medium pick.  

Are you using all four strings from the Aquila 31U set and tuned up to GDAE, or are you using just the GDA strings(throwing the C away) and a substitute E5 from some other source (e.g., a low-G classical guitar string uptuned)?  The second arrangement should eliminate the bounce.

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## FatBear

I have been using all four of the 31U strings.  I'll see about swapping out that low one.  They are all a bit bouncy for me, but that G is like a bungie cord.  Thanks.

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## Steve Zawacki

> I have been using all four of the 31U strings.  I'll see about swapping out that low one.  They are all a bit bouncy for me, but that G is like a bungie cord.  Thanks.


Well, the Aquila 31U is a CGDA set, not a GDAE.  If you are tuning this set GDAE, then the C is most likely being tuned 4 full notes low (as are the other strings) and that would make them bouncy.  If you are tuning them on the high side, then the A string would be extremely tight and at the edge of snapping.

The GDA of the CGDA set should tune taut for their respective keys.  That's why I toss out the C, shift everything over one slot and add an E5.

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## FatBear

They are GDAE on a baritone ukulele with 20" scale.  Or they're supposed to be, anyway.  But they _are_ all pretty bouncy.  I usually use a capo on the second fret to control it.  Since that puts me off of the tuning by a couple of steps maybe I should just try tuning them all a couple of steps higher to begin with.

I've ordered an actual tenor guitar with real steel strings and will probably sell the ukulele when it is finished.  But there are certain really mellow songs that sound really nice on it and your description of the elec/accoust concert ukulele is intriguing.  Or maybe I should try adding a pickup to mine.  That could be a fun project.

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## Steve Zawacki

> They are GDAE on a baritone ukulele with 20" scale.  Or they're supposed to be, anyway.  But they _are_ all pretty bouncy.  I usually use a capo on the second fret to control it.  Since that puts me off of the tuning by a couple of steps maybe I should just try tuning them all a couple of steps higher to begin with.
> 
> I've ordered an actual tenor guitar with real steel strings and will probably sell the ukulele when it is finished.  But there are certain really mellow songs that sound really nice on it and your description of the elec/accoust concert ukulele is intriguing.  Or maybe I should try adding a pickup to mine.  That could be a fun project.


I have a Fishman Isys+ preamp/tuner/pickup on my tenor uke and love it.  There's a different Fishman unit (no tuner) on the concert uke, but it works well. 

I've thought about getting a baritone uke, but decided against it.  The jump from tenor guitar to tenor uke is comfortable, and both the tenor uke and concert uke are great for travel when I'm too lazy (happens a lot!) to haul the guitar or banjo.  This past weekend swapped off the steel strings on my Blueridge BR-40T for nylon just for a change of pace.

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## FatBear

> I have a Fishman Isys+ preamp/tuner/pickup on my tenor uke and love it.  There's a different Fishman unit (no tuner) on the concert uke, but it works well.


Thanks, I will check into them.

[quote]I've thought about getting a baritone uke, but decided against it.  The jump from tenor guitar to tenor uke is comfortable/QUOTE]
It's always fascinating how people end up where they are.  I could never find a tenor guitar to play, so I actually got the baritone ukulele as an affordable way of "trying out" a tenor guitar (longer scale than my mandolin, etc.) before I bought one.  It turns out I can play the longer scale OK and the things I don't like about the baritone will probably be remedied by the steel strings.  But it is very mellow and songs like The Very Thought Of You sure sound nice on it.  Hall of the Mountain King does carry a bit more authority than on the mandolin, too.   :Smile:

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## Steve Zawacki

[QUOTE=FatBear;1316859]Thanks, I will check into them.




> I've thought about getting a baritone uke, but decided against it.  The jump from tenor guitar to tenor uke is comfortable/QUOTE]
> It's always fascinating how people end up where they are.  I could never find a tenor guitar to play, so I actually got the baritone ukulele as an affordable way of "trying out" a tenor guitar (longer scale than my mandolin, etc.) before I bought one.  It turns out I can play the longer scale OK and the things I don't like about the baritone will probably be remedied by the steel strings.  But it is very mellow and songs like The Very Thought Of You sure sound nice on it.  Hall of the Mountain King does carry a bit more authority than on the mandolin, too.


I know what you mean.  I got my tenor guitar on a trade for one of my mandolins.  The ukuleles came later as I was trying to come up with a comfortable travel instrument for the tenor guitar and the mandolin.  What kind of TG have you ordered?

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## FatBear

G.D. Armstrong is making me a 5 string tenor guitar.  I met him at the Tenor Guitar Gathering and he answered an avalanche of questions without losing patience.  He had his own personal guitar there and I've since seen and played an octave mandolin that he made and both sounded really nice, so I figured he'd be a good guy to do it.  Turns out it is surprisingly affordable for a custom instrument, too.

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## Steve Zawacki

> G.D. Armstrong is making me a 5 string tenor guitar.  I met him at the Tenor Guitar Gathering and he answered an avalanche of questions without losing patience.  He had his own personal guitar there and I've since seen and played an octave mandolin that he made and both sounded really nice, so I figured he'd be a good guy to do it.  Turns out it is surprisingly affordable for a custom instrument, too.


Would loved to have been there.  Got the tee-shirt (blue) but no trip.  Hope to make the next one.

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## bea

The question might sound crazy - but what about using violin or viola strings on quint tuned ukes (violin on soprano)? 

AFAIK Thomastik makes a violin E with a synthetic core - so the bridge correction should not be a problem.

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## Steve Zawacki

> The question might sound crazy - but what about using violin or viola strings on quint tuned ukes (violin on soprano)? 
> 
> AFAIK Thomastik makes a violin E with a synthetic core - so the bridge correction should not be a problem.


Good question and have no answer.  Would be worth the experiment.

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## bea

What about the string tension? Ukes have a pretty low one, haven't they?

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## Steve Zawacki

> What about the string tension? Ukes have a pretty low one, haven't they?


Most do, depending on the maker, size and such.  A number of them have glued-on saddles which hold the strings instead of screwed-in tailpieces.  Too much tension and "pop" goes the saddle.

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## kkmm

Different strings (and tensions) would create intonation issues for ukulele tuned in fifth. I had to re-compensate the saddle to address this issue, the compensation is for F/C/G/D tuning, then put a capo at fret#2 on my tenor uke to have G/D/A/E tuning as a mandolin.

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## Steve Zawacki

> Different strings (and tensions) would create intonation issues for ukulele tuned in fifth. I had to re-compensate the saddle to address this issue, the compensation is for F/C/G/D tuning, then put a capo at fret#2 on my tenor uke to have G/D/A/E tuning as a mandolin.


Have had no intonation issues at all going fifths with nine different ukuleles, sopranino through tenor.  Don't have a baritone, so that one is still in the who-knows category.

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## Shelby Eicher

Nice to see this thread emerge. I've been using a tenor ukulele as a nylon string mandola for years. For a 17" scale length, the best string set that I've found is: D'Addarrio - for the 1st or A string I use a Pro-Arte guitar B hard tension, for the 2nd string or D string I use a Pro-Arte guitar G extra hard tension, for the 3rd or G string I use a Pro-Arte lightly polished guitar A normal tension, for the 4th or C string I use a Pro-Arte lightly polished guitar E hard tension. These are all available on Just Strings as singles. Here is a short clip of my son Isaac Eicher playing it warming up for a gig. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffj0aSyTUx8 
Regards,
Shelby

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bea, 

Doug Freeman, 

Jacob

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## Steve Zawacki

> Nice to see this thread emerge. I've been using a tenor ukulele as a nylon string mandola for years. For a 17" scale length, the best string set that I've found is: D'Addarrio - for the 1st or A string I use a Pro-Arte guitar B hard tension, for the 2nd string or D string I use a Pro-Arte guitar G extra hard tension, for the 3rd or G string I use a Pro-Arte lightly polished guitar A normal tension, for the 4th or C string I use a Pro-Arte lightly polished guitar E hard tension. These are all available on Just Strings as singles. Here is a short clip of my son Isaac Eicher playing it warming up for a gig. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffj0aSyTUx8 
> Regards,
> Shelby


Have to try that combination.  Just got another tenor uke in a trade and will need to restring it.  There are days I think I may as well set up direct deposit with JustStrings for all the experiments I've tried.  Am still trying to come up with a decent nylon combination for a tenor banjo.

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## mandroid

Elderly says  No More 8 string Aquila GDAE sets ..

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## wistah

I do CGDA on tenor ukuleles by using the Aquila Nylgut Guilele string set.  I use the D string and down tune to C, I use the G string as is, I tune the C string up to D, and I use the A string as is.  You can also use the E string tuned down to D, but I like the higher tension.

I do CGDA on baritone ukuleles by mixing a DGBE set with a GCEA set.  I down tune the D from the DGBE set to C, G as is, E down to D from the GCEA set, and A as is.

On concerts I use the Aquila 31U set mentioned above for CGDA.

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Doug Freeman

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## Steve Zawacki

Got to tryng CGDA on the ukes as well and found I like it better than GDAE.  Recently retuned the tenor guitar and banjo back to CGDA, so thought I'd try a clean sweep. The E5 on a GDAE uke gets a bit screechy (to me, anyway), so have been looking at other options and CGDA isn't too bad.

Am interested on what is being used to get a decent low-C on a uke.  Everything I tried came out somewhat "tubby." I gave up and took the easy way out - using a standard low-G GCEA uke pack for whatever sized uke, swapped the G and C strings and used at their regular tuning (C4-G4), detuned the E to D and left the A as-is.  The result is a "reentrant" CGDA, but it sounds pretty good since it takes advantage of the uke's acoustic design and can be played cleanly with CGDA chords.  Picking isn't bad, since the bottom three strings are tuned in the correct line and I don't normally pick the C anyway (that's just me, others do different).

Have this set-up right now on tenor, concert, soprano and sopranino ukes and like it. Who knows what I may try next week, but for now the modified CGDA is the overall uke tuning.  With the sopranino (16 inch length, 11 inch scale) it makes a great suitcase carryon addition and car behind-the-drivers-seat buddy.  Also, using standard uke low-G string packs this way make for inexpensive and readily available replacement strings.

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## Steve Zawacki

Well, got a bunch of Aquila Nygut 31U CGDA uke string sets.  Advertised for concert ukes, but I ran up two tenor ukes with them and they sound really fine.  One the tenor ukes is a Pono Pro Classic and with the Aquila CGDA strings I think it gives Pono's new nylon string tenor guitar a run for its money.  Spent the afternoon trying three old Eagles tunes (Heart of the matter, Get over it, Heartache tonight) on several instruments (Blueridge 40T, Gooding 17 fret tenor banjo, both tenor ukes and a bajolele, all tuned CGDA) just to hear the sound differences.  The tenor ukes held their own and are very convenient when laziness keeps me from hauling out the larger stuff.

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