# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Are beaters better?

## Andy Fielding

Hey guys,

Okay—we've all seen the photos and read the discussions about how fabulous-sounding, gorgeous, and expensive higher-end mandolins can be. It's an art form, for sure. There are endless ways that talented, patient luthiers can express themselves, and they fully deserve what they can get for their difficult, impressive work.

That said, some of us are just musicians. And while we appreciate the physical beauty of fine instruments—after all, we're artists—we're primarily here to get a good sound and say what we want to say.

Those few of us with deep pockets may think nothing about taking a $5K or $10K mandolin out on a gig, and damn the torpedoes. But I reckon most of us would find it more practical to have a couple of decent-sounding sub-$1000 mandos we could just take out there and, you know, play.

So when you get right down to it, are beaters better? Is it _that_ important to you to pull out an obviously expensive, famous-name mando so everyone can see how "serious" you are—then spend half your time worrying about getting it scratched or dinged or someone sitting on it or spilling beer on it or making off with it? If status wasn't an issue, would you rather turn up with your good-sounding beater, not worry what anyone thought of it, and give your entire attention to the music?

Sure, most of us are likely to get more pleasure from the sound of a $5K mando than a $1K one. But I suspect the people listening to us—you know, the people we're actually there to play _for_—are focusing on the ideas and feelings we're expressing, not how close our instruments sound to $200K Loars.

So what's really important? Do you think marketing and status-seeking have distracted us from who we really are? Instrument-wise, do you think we've ended up in a situation reminiscent of The Emperor's New Clothes? 

If I'm making any sense here, I'd appreciate your comments. Okay, even if I'm not making any sense.

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## Chip Booth

An audience may not appreciate the difference in mandolins but as the player I can. If I am happier and enjoying the instrument I am playing that is reflected in my music, and the audience can appreciate that.

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## Jeffff

Most of what we buy or add or change on any instrument is mostly for us. The  majority of listeners couldn't tell the difference between a Rogue and a genuine Loar in a performance setting. However, how we feel about the instrument we play can make a big difference in our playing.

If you you add it all up I think everyone has a better experience.

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## OldSausage

It's better to hear a good quality player on a good quality instrument.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Possibly from the point of view of 'practicality & lower expense',a 'beater' is a good idea,especially as there are quite a few VERY good sounding ones to be had for less than $1,000 US,a Kentucky KM -900 for instance,currently on sale at The Mandolin Store for $999.00 US.That model has been receiving some serious praise on here in the last few weeks. Personally,i wouldn't call a $1,000 Mandolin a 'beater',just less expensive. I'd call a $5.00 Mandolin bought at a boot sale a 'beater',
                                                                                                                                 Ivan :Cool:

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## almeriastrings

Ivan has hit the nail on the head in my opinion. While a true 'beater' low-end plywood mando might be OK to take camping, it is not going to be a very happy experience if you are used to playing fine instruments. However... there are certainly instruments in that 1K range that are both good enough to play 'seriously' and at the same time, not so incredibly valuable or irreplaceable that you have to worry continually about theft or damage. These are a great compromise. Nice to have. You can also pick them up used for even less sometimes. I paid €600 for one of my KM-1000's and €800 for the other! Can't beat that - and that's the only connection with 'beat' I'd use for either of them!

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## Beanzy

They're tools. A pro will use good quality tools but won't fall for the faddish additions which some manufacturers may try to add. 
I think of them like cars I loath spending money on them for the sake of it, but if my job involved taking people around in one, then I'd spend the money on quality & style.

Posted by an amateur KM160 player who drives an 11 year old Skoda.  :Wink:

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## Barry Wilson

I believe a lower costing instrument can do just fine. I just jammed with a band, playing bass. I took a squire bass along in a gig bag and it plays great. I don't really feel any difference to the 71 jazz I used to own.. I dunno. 

as far as mandolins, I like my sub $1000 mando a lot. but I just bought a mandocaster to play in the band. I certainly notice more of a difference in the epiphone to "the loar", so maybe acoustic instruments the differences become much more pronounced.

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## Dagger Gordon

I have a cheap Encore mandolin which I lend to kids if I am doing groupwork in schools.  I have also taken it on a sailing holiday.
It plays quite well and for what it is it has been quite useful to have around.

It is certainly better than most of the stuff I have seen in the cheap price range, but that is about all you could say.  It is definitely not good enough for professional use.

Still, when you go further up the ladder and play a Collings MT for instance (which is the cheapest one Collings make) it is certainly good enough for most people - although not exactly a beater - but a lot less expensive than many top end mandolins, and quite easy to replace if need be.

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## Bertram Henze

> ...But I reckon most of us would find it more practical to have a couple of decent-sounding sub-$1000 mandos we could just take out there and, you know, play.
> 
> So when you get right down to it, are beaters better? Is it _that_ important to you to pull out an obviously expensive, famous-name mando so everyone can see how "serious" you arethen spend half your time worrying about getting it scratched or dinged or someone sitting on it or spilling beer on it or making off with it? If status wasn't an issue, would you rather turn up with your good-sounding beater, not worry what anyone thought of it, and give your entire attention to the music?


The solution is obvious: you need a decent-sounding sub-$1000 mando, that is looking obviously expensive and famous-named  :Grin: 

Seriously, though, it is possible. My instrument has often been marveled at for its tone, and it is from a decent and well-known builder. And, yes, your price projection about hits the mark.

Let's face it: if we care more what others say about the looks of our instruments (*) than what others say about our playing  - then it's not the instrument that's part of the problem.

* "that a little guitar?" vs. "that's a very nice little guitar!"

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## Markus

Why even have a nice mandolin then? I would never buy an instrument for any other purpose but playing it.

For me, the relationship and 'touch' I have with my primary instrument is what I want on stage ... I would hate playing out with an instrument that wasn't the one I played daily.

I guess I would likely not buy an instrument that I couldn't take anywhere. I am a musician, not a museum. 

To me, an instrument is a tool. I am not taking a highly valuable instrument to a dive bar ... but I don't go to dive bars either.

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## Paul Edwards

My girlfriend was able to hear the difference after I had my mandolin properly set up... I was proud.  :Grin:

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## Alex Orr

I didn't buy my Brentrup because of the name on it or because it's super fancy.  I bought it because it's loud and sounds great.  Why would I want to keep it at home and take out my Kentucky 380, which is a fine "beater", but is vastly inferior in terms of volume and tone?  And yes, I can easily tell the difference.  I enjoy playing my Brentrup a LOT more, so why not play the instrument I enjoy playing more?

I think the OP's argument seems to be based on the idea that expensive instruments don't sound all that great but look nice and thus have to be treated as museum pieces.  That line of reasoning is simply wrong.  Also, as others have pointed out, once you're talking $1k, you're not really talking beater.  Heck even my 380, which was $300 new, could sort've be seen as pushing the envelope of "beater" when compared to an epi, a lower-end Kentucky, or a Rover.

Also, in terms of acoustic quality versus electric, it's my experience that the differences between cheap mandolins and expensive mandolins are far greater than cheap electric guitars versus expensive electrics.  Plus, it's more than the guitar with electrics; an expensive electric guitar run through a bad amp will sound poor and you can swap out better PUs for cheap ones in electrics.

For more info on this topic, there must be at least a thousand threads started by people asking if expensive instruments really sound any different at all from mandolins that cost a couple hundred bucks...or from people ranting that all expensive mandolins sound no different than cheap mandolins and it's all a matter of shallow status symbol acquisition.  Come to think of it, that thread is also similarly popular on just about any guitar forum out there as well.

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## Paul Edwards

But that poor girl has the sad old job of listening to me play all the time.. even when she leaves the room.  :Smile:

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## Rosemary Philips

I'm sure there are people who buy high-end mandolins because they want to "impress" people, but I think the majority of people just want to have a mandolin that they love and enjoy playing and they aren't really concerned with what other people think of it. When I first got a more expensive mandolin, I was afraid to take it to festivals, etc., because I was worried about it getting dinged but I got over that pretty quickly and I just play it because that's what it's for. If a person's gets a mandolin they're afraid to play, then perhaps that's not the mandolin for him/her. Same with getting a mandolin because people will be impressed. I think people should play whatever mandolin makes them happy and not worry about what anybody thinks.

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## Cary Fagan

As has been suggested, I don't think most of us use the term "beater" for a mandolin that costs $1k.  We think of a beater as that old Strad, or Harmony, or whatever instrument we throw in the car because we might have a few minutes to wait to pick up the kids, or take on our bikes to the park, or go camping with.  And I think many people, like me, love their beater instrument as well as the "good one."  Because it's always there, we don't have to worry about it, and we associate with picking under the trees, by the ocean, anywhere we happen to be.

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## William Smith

Personally,,I don't believe in the term beater mandolin,,I see not the point of haveing a really expensive  or cheaper model mando and not hauling it around and playin it all the time at gigs/festivals etc.....They're made to be played all of em no matter what the cost of em is,"high or low end",,Why would ya play an inferior instrument when ya got the goods at home?!?,,I started off on low end models like all of us out here in mandoland and slowly moved up to some real high end stuff that of course sounds and does everything better than what I started out with..I also usually get mando's with minor work/playwear "Don't like breakin em in",,,if ya want pristine well don't play em and leave it in the case..

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## Bob Clark

Isn't 'better' simply a subjective assessment?  What is 'better' for one person won't be for another.  Shouldn't we all just buy the instrument that most suits our budget, style, purpose, aesthetic sense and so on, at that time?  And even that may change over time.  So even for an individual, the 'better' mandolin is a moving target.  I think you should buy what you like, play it as long as you like it, and then buy one you like 'better' if one comes along.  Play what you enjoy and enjoy what you play! :Grin:

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## John Flynn

> It's better to hear a good quality player on a good quality instrument.


Well, the "good quality player" just isn't gonna happen in my case, so all I can do is save up my pennies for the "good quality instrument!"  :Crying: 

Seriously, while I have two decent instruments, a Rigel A+ Deluxe and an Old Wave Oval A, my beater gets more playing time than either of them. It's a Parsons flat-top that I got used for $250. I honestly think it sounds better than my other two, and better than some way more expensive instruments I've played. It's just very weak on volume. So it sits next to my desk at home and it is what I grab anytime I want to practice and play. I don't care if it gets dinged and it's what I will throw in a gig bag and put in the car if I am going to someone's house to just play with one or two people. 

Not to compare myself with the great Norman Blake, but I read that while he owned a Loar and a lot of other great mandolins, he said his mandolin that gets the most playing is a beat-up Martin bent-top that he keeps on the couch in his living room. Anytime he just wants to pick on his own, that's what he grabs.

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## catmandu2

I'm with Norman...if an instrument is "too nice" for me to play it, I'll trade it for stuff more utilitarian

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## Justus True Waldron

I'm with the people on here that feel like an instrument is meant to be played, and that the benefit of a great instrument is first and foremost for the musician. Music is a huge part of my life, and I have no problem investing in it. I realise not everybody can do that, so I count myself blessed that I've been able to... I got my first "real" job last year and spent the better part of the year saving up until I could afford the instrument I connected with. Now I have an instrument that (used) approaches the 5k mark once all the accessories are added in. I consider that a steal for what I got. I am certainly not the person to spend that kind of money on anything. My own car isn't worth nearly that much. To me, with music being the part of my life that it is, it's worth it to have an instrument with "soul" for lack of a better word... a personality, depth, something that makes me want to pick it up and never put it down. I play a 3k clarinet (although it was lent to me). When I have to return it, I'm going to have to buy a clarinet of similar quality. I can't go back! I went down to Tennessee last year, to visit with some people and play some music. I stayed with the Gallaghers of Gallagher guitar and got in some jams and met a lot of people who make music a huge part of their life. The common "theme" down their it seems was that everyone's instrument was worth more than their car. You could tell with these people it wasn't a bragging thing, it was just the sacrifice it took to get the instrument that made their life better... I've made some sacrifices to get my instrument, and I can tell you, once you've done that, you don't leave it at home in a case. You play it, anywhere and everywhere you can. To me, that's part of the fun of this all. Do I get worried about my mando? Sometimes, and I definitely try to be a good steward of what I have. Does that keep me from bringing it everywhere? No, I can't stop playing it, how could I leave it home!!!

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## almeriastrings

A lot of this seems to assume that the most expensive, desirable, collectable instrument is  always the only "good one", and that somehow any others you might have are "inferior". Often, that is not the case. They might just be different, and you might enjoy playing them just as much. If you can find a great instrument that does not cost a fortune, that you like a lot, why not play it, and why risk taking something worth ten or even a hundred times as much into situations where it is at real risk, such as international travel? I certainly don't travel with vintage instruments any more - just not worth the hassle (CITES for example) or the risk.

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## Tim2723

For myself, I hesitate to take a very valuable (expensive?) instrument on stage.  I have a certain reputation for limiting the useful life of an instrument.  That said, I did succumb to the idea of using sub-$1000 mandolin on stage because I couldn't justify damaging a valuable one.  I went through two MK electrics in three years.  They just don't hold up to hard-core use.  I've come to believe that you need a certain minimum quality level as a working pro.  Even though they sounded OK through the amps, there's a reliability issue to consider.  I've always believed that a $1000 instrument sounds just as good as a $10,000 one through a piezo pickup anyway.

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## mugbucket

My "beater" is a $75 Johnson ebay special, and my "nice" one is an Eastman 615..., I treat them both with respect as far as storage, travel, and whom I'll lend.  I want them both to last forever, but am practical with the amount of risk I'll subject them to based on how much I paid my hard earned dollars for.  YMMV

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...
> So what's really important?
> ...snip...


This is a question that can only be answered by the individual player for himself or herself.
Whatever characteristics he or she wants in his or her instrument makes it _"better"_ for him or her. 
This is an area of absolute subjectivity.
So, what I think is really important is true only for me, and what you think is really important is true only for you.
We're talking Art, Music, and personal values here. Each person is the sole qualified judge regarding what is _"better"_ for them.

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## foldedpath

I agree with Chip's sentiment in the very first reply. There's a feedback loop between player and instrument. I play better on instruments that inspire me; that sound great and don't present any obstacles to playing. That's not a feeling I get with cheap instruments. When I've played better, and owned better, I know what's missing and I feel like I'm fighting to get the results I want. 

As a side note, quality instruments are easier to amplify at a gig, especially if you use mics instead of pickups. If it sounds great to begin with, then just put it in front of a mic (or use a clip-on mic) and you're good to go. No endless fussing with EQ settings on a preamp or the PA mixer. On most gigs I have a clip-on DPA 4099 mic on my Lebeda, and it goes into the board flat (unless I've just changed strings, in which case the highs might be rolled off just a wee bit). The old programming phrase "garbage in = garbage out" applies equally well to PA systems. Get a good sound on the front end, and everything else is so much easier.

P.S. I do have a beater guitar that I sometimes take to Irish sessions because they're often in bars, and in cramped spaces where it's hard to protect a larger instrument. I'm not getting paid to present a performance there, though. If I'm getting paid on a gig, then the gig gets my best instruments.

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## Perry

I suppose I consider myself a musician. To be honest 99% of the audience has no idea how much my mandolin cost nor do they or should they care. So it's not so obvious to anybody but me. And I don't worry about getting it scratched or banged up ..heck my Kimble A from June 2011 already has loads of road wear on it.

*A really big factor to me is playability.* How it feels; how it intonates. I've yet to play a $1,000 mandolin that plays even nearly as nice as my Kimble A.

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## Alex Orr

Something that's often lost in these debates is that the idea of impressing someone with an expensive mandolin is darn near impossible outside of the community of mando-obsessives on these boards.  Think about it...many people don't even know what a mandolin is!  Is it really going to impress the average person, or even the average musician, if you have a Red Diamond, Duff, Nugget, etc...?  They have no idea what that means, nor what it equates to in terms of cost.  Even among hobbyist mandolin players, it's a small subsect that can look at the name on a headstock and be impressed.  Just as an example, Brentrups are well-known and highly-regarded on these boards.  I've probably played mine around at least a couple dozen or more mandolin players in the last year.  Many folks have asked what I was playing, but only two had ever heard of Brentrup, for everyone else it was a good sounding mando that for all they knew (or cared about) could have come out of a factory and cost a couple hundred bucks.  I really don't care because I bought it for the sound and because it was in my price range, and quite frankly, because they don't show up used too often and I thought it would be interesting to spend some time with one.  

My guess is that the only name on a headstock that folks would recognize is Gibson, all the others (no matter how desirable) usually mean nothing to most anyone, including other mandolin players.  Again, the idea that a boutique mandolin signifies anything to 99.9% of the world is just crazy IMO.

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## pefjr

> Hey guys,
> 
> Okaywe've all seen the photos and read the discussions about how fabulous-sounding, gorgeous, and expensive higher-end mandolins can be. It's an art form, for sure. There are endless ways that talented, patient luthiers can express themselves, and they fully deserve what they can get for their difficult, impressive work.
> 
> That said, some of us are just musicians. And while we appreciate the physical beauty of fine instrumentsafter all, we're artistswe're primarily here to get a good sound and say what we want to say.
> 
> Those few of us with deep pockets may think nothing about taking a $5K or $10K mandolin out on a gig, and damn the torpedoes. But I reckon most of us would find it more practical to have a couple of decent-sounding sub-$1000 mandos we could just take out there and, you know, play.
> 
> So when you get right down to it, are beaters better? Is it _that_ important to you to pull out an obviously expensive, famous-name mando so everyone can see how "serious" you arethen spend half your time worrying about getting it scratched or dinged or someone sitting on it or spilling beer on it or making off with it? If status wasn't an issue, would you rather turn up with your good-sounding beater, not worry what anyone thought of it, and give your entire attention to the music?
> ...


Yes, we have gone overboard. Did you see the Lin rookie card that sold on Ebay for $21,000? A damn plastic card, 17 of them. Excess has permeated our society. You see it everywhere. You don't have to have a new car to drive to work, and we could have rapid transit instead of a passenger car for each of us. Might as well play the most expensive mandolin you can afford, and do it with diamond rings on your fingers, and a red ribbon in your hair too, like Liberace. The music will sound somewhat better because of a positive attitude projected through the fog of it all. Then we start competing with each other over material objects, and it becomes a pp contest. Human nature...,  not at it's worst though, just sort of the bottom half of the Totem pole. American's are the worst.  I think it's OK if one can recognize this, and then laugh at the humor of it. I hope you don't go so far as to dress up like Porter Wagoner did though. :Mandosmiley:

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## catmandu2

:Popcorn:

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## Mike Bunting

> I've always believed that a $1000 instrument sounds just as good as a $10,000 one through a piezo pickup anyway.


I agree in the opposite, a piezo makes the expensive one sound as bad as the low priced one. Actually, it makes them all sound worse than they really are.

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## Paul Kotapish

> I've always believed that a $1000 instrument sounds just as good as a $10,000 one through a piezo pickup anyway.


You are right about that, Tim, which is why tone-obsessed players with splendid instruments (think Grisman, Marshall, Thile, McCoury, Reischman, Rozum, et al) rarely--if ever--play through a piezo. 

This debate is endless--and apparently endlessly fascinating--and there is no one-size-fits-all answer for the several schools of thought. 

Some of us believe we can truly hear the differences between a range of instruments, and the ones we tend to prefer are often at the higher end of the scale. Appreciation for a beautifully made instrument (perfect miters, elegant carving, etc.) is part of the allure, certainly. So-called status may factor into it for a small fraction of the folks, but I think most of the high-end market is actually driven by players on the lifetime quest for an instrument that speaks to them--and one that expresses their own music most satisfactorily.

Others of us don't hear the differences as keenly or don't find the differences significant enough to justify the sacrifice that buying a top tier instrument requires. So it goes. 

As for the worry factor, I don't think it's much of an issue for most folks. The guys I know who play Loar-era Gibsons and prewar Martins take good care of their instruments and tend not to leave them unattended in the trunks of their cars on hot days, but otherwise treat their investments as well-valued tools, and play them most any place and any time they are serious about making music.

And if your serious music making always takes place in a bar where the band needs chicken wire to fend off flying bottles and you are playing through an amp with the volume set at 11, there's probably no point in having a high-end instrument. In that case, a beater probably is better.

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## Jeff Budz

My preference is for a higher end mandolin that has been beat up a little, so you don't have to worry about keeping it "pristine".  

I hear a huge difference in sound between my import and domestic mandolins, if I found an import under than $1k that sounded as good as my domestic I could be happy with it, or want to take it to festivals.

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## Jill McAuley

> Something that's often lost in these debates is that the idea of impressing someone with an expensive mandolin is darn near impossible outside of the community of mando-obsessives on these boards.  Think about it...many people don't even know what a mandolin is!  Is it really going to impress the average person, or even the average musician, if you have a Red Diamond, Duff, Nugget, etc...?  They have no idea what that means, nor what it equates to in terms of cost.  Even among hobbyist mandolin players, it's a small subsect that can look at the name on a headstock and be impressed.  Just as an example, Brentrups are well-known and highly-regarded on these boards.  I've probably played mine around at least a couple dozen or more mandolin players in the last year.  Many folks have asked what I was playing, but only two had ever heard of Brentrup, for everyone else it was a good sounding mando that for all they knew (or cared about) could have come out of a factory and cost a couple hundred bucks.  I really don't care because I bought it for the sound and because it was in my price range, and quite frankly, because they don't show up used too often and I thought it would be interesting to spend some time with one.  
> 
> My guess is that the only name on a headstock that folks would recognize is Gibson, all the others (no matter how desirable) usually mean nothing to most anyone, including other mandolin players.  Again, the idea that a boutique mandolin signifies anything to 99.9% of the world is just crazy IMO.


Alex has hit the nail on the head here - I mean, folks barely know WHAT instrument I'm playing when they see my mandolins, so forget about them being "impressed" by the name on the headstock etc etc. I have nice gear, and always have had and make no apologies for it. I'm also a working class person who's had to work my butt off to get that nice gear. I don't give a monkey's about whether someone is "impressed" by my instruments - I've chosen them for ME because they suit ME, how they sound and how they play.

Cheers,
Jill

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## rockies

I  guess I feel differently about this than a lot of persons, I purchased my mandolin because it sounds great and plays well. If I had looked at it as something to protect against wear and occasional dings I wouldn't have bought it. The thought of leaving it home and playing a beater just doesn't make sense to me. If I was a boater and bought a new boat would I leave it home so I wouldn't ding it and use a beater because I spent $15,000 on it ? Would I leave my new car home because I spent $25, 00 on it, and drive a beater? Would I not take a $10,000 skidoo or a seadoo out in the snow or on the water (if those were my hobbies) and use a beater ? Find the best mandolin inside your budget that talks to you and makes you heart beat faster when you play and play it everywhere.
Dave

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## Randi Gormley

Well, there's impressed and there's impressed. I may be impressed by seeing a specific name on a headstock (at least to the extend that I'm impressed by anything), but people who play a bunch of instruments usually make a point to check out my strad when I'm playing out (like at a session) just because they find it kind of funky. I had a well-known fiddler take it and explain to another well-known musician that "these things can't be destroyed. You can drive your car over it and it'll still play!" which I guess makes it both a beater and something that impresses people ...

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## 250sc

A really good mandolin is like an effecient machine. It takes little energy to pull tone and volume from them. I used to compare my Collings to one of my better bikes which took very little energy to "get up and jump".

PS. Is a Nuggett that has been scratched and beat up still considered a "beater"? It might look like it but ..........

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## Paul Busman

I'm in the "inexpensive" camp.  My "good" mandolin is a Fullerton Gloucester for which I paid something like $175 NEW.  I've since had it tweaked with a Red Henry bridge, had the fingerboard radiused and refretted, bone nut.  I added an inexpensive cast tailpiece (cosmetic, but pretty), arm rest, and Tone Gard.  Total is probably still under $450 and the thing plays and sounds like a champ. I'd be hard pressed to want to spend any more on a "better" mandolin, although I love looking at them and greatly appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into them.
My "beater" is an IV kit that I built and customized.  That ran me probably a total of $150.  I knock this one around playing in my band and IMO it sounds pretty darned good.  If it gets some Guinness spilled on/in it at a gig, no biggie  :Grin: 
For me, good enough is plenty good enough.  Like cars... mine is a Mazda 3.  Not the cheapest beater on the market, but VERY much cheaper than the "really good" cars.  Guess what?  It gets me where I need to go at the same speed limit as everyone else, mileage is quite respectable, and it has enough of the comforts and toys that it's a lot of fun to drive.  I see no need to spend more.

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## fatt-dad

(from the perspective of an amateur)

There was a time in my life when the majority of my daily practice was on the instruments that I KEPT in my car.  Winter and summer they were with me as I waited for my kids' practices to get out.  The "beater" mandolin never had a case and spent about 2 weeks a year on the sandy beach too.  The guitar was a Martin LXM (i.e., primarily formica-like "wood"), which now resides in Mwitikira, Tanzania (separate story).

Now there is little place in my life for a "beater."  I do enjoy having a few mandolins that are inexpensive and suited for camping, the backyard fire pit or the sandy beach.  My IV kit is my new "beater" and I take it to the beach.  All my other mandolins are too nice to take to the beach. I think everybody needs a mandolin that can lay in the sand!

What I don't get is somebody that buys a $8,000.00 mandolin and worries not about the beach, but whether to bring it to a jam or a festival or such.  So, they buy a $2,000.00 mandolin for that purpose.  They end up having all their memorable experiences on the "beater" and the good axe is what the practice on.  I'd think hard use on the deluxe axe would never add up to the cost of the jam-axe and you'd be better in the long run.

Not to ramble on that is. . .

f-d

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## allenhopkins

> ...most of us would find it more practical to have a couple of decent-sounding sub-$1000 mandos we could just take out there and, you know, play....Is it _that_ important to you to pull out an obviously expensive, famous-name mando so everyone can see how "serious" you arethen spend half your time worrying about getting it scratched or dinged or someone sitting on it or spilling beer on it or making off with it? If status wasn't an issue, would you rather turn up with your good-sounding beater, not worry what anyone thought of it, and give your entire attention to the music?...


1.  IMHO a $1K mandolin is not a "beater."  Nor is a $800 mandolin.  Once you get into all solid woods, a hand-carved top, and good workmanship, you have an instrument that you could play in performance without embarrassment.  Would it sound "just as good" as a $5K mandolin?  That, honestly, is a matter of listeners' individual ears, and the preferences and proclivities of the performer him/herself.

2.  What's "important to you" as a performer is also a matter of individual attitudes and tastes.  As wisely pointed out above, to nearly the entire audience, the make and model of instrument is near-irrelevant.  _I_ notice what guitar Gillian Welch is playing (sometimes, I've seen, an old Guild D-25, which we used to sell for $179 at the store where I worked), but to .999 of listeners, that's not an issue, not even a point of interest.

3.  Some musicians get a "boost" from having a "great" mandolin to play onstage.  Others get the same charge from familiarity -- the ol' "axe" they've played for 30 years -- or from getting good music out of an instrument that's just as "plebeian" as the one that their musical hero, Blind Lemon Pledge, played back in the 1930's.  It sounds, well, _authentic,_ ya know...

4.  If you take an instrument out to play -- perform, jam, whatever -- it's a *tool* with which you're making music, not a collector's showpiece that you need to keep behind glass.  Not that you should abuse it, or use it carelessly, but you should wield it without worrying whether it picks up a scratch or a ding along the way.  Do you drive your car, or keep it under a cover in your garage?  Do you wear your shoes, or keep them on shoe-trees and polish them daily?  So if you think your mandolin is "too good" to take out and play, what is its purpose?  Investment, collector's item, potential heirloom, Gollum's "Precious?"

I have some fairly valuable instruments, and I take them out and play them.  I have some cheapo "beaters," and I take them out and play them too.  Whatever the occasion calls for.  I wouldn't take the most expensive ones camping, or out on a boat, or on a trip where they'd mostly been in a car trunk.  But I'd play them in a club, or at a jam, if they had the sound I wanted for that event.  After all, instruments are meant to be played, and if "playing out" is what you do, then "play out" with your "good stuff."

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## Ivan Kelsall

While i haven't personally played a KM-900,all the good press they've had on here by folk 'who have',many of those folk with far more ''Mando.under their belt'' than me,i'd go straight for a KM-900 (if i had the cash),but it's little sister the *KM-505*,one of which i have played,sounded very good indeed to me.They're pretty inexpensive in the USA & if the one that i played was 'typical',then it's another thumbs up for yet another Kentucky model.Not a 'beater' by far,but inexpensive & VERY good.
    From *Allen Hopkins* - _"...then "play out" with your "good stuff."_ . Well said Allen.If the circumstances are right & there's no _danger of loss or breakage_,if you want to sound your best,then play your best. Honestly,if i had a Lloyd Loar or any of the 'premium' maker's Mandolins,it would be out & about with me. I mention 'loss or breakage',because nobody with any sense would deliberately place a very expensive instrument in danger - normal circumstances prevailing,i'd take my Lloyd Loar / Dude./ Gil./Ellis & simply revel in the experience - i wish !!!,
                                                                                                                                                               Ivan

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## Bertram Henze

> Something that's often lost in these debates is that the idea of impressing someone with an expensive mandolin is darn near impossible outside of the community of mando-obsessives on these boards.  Think about it...many people don't even know what a mandolin is!


I experience that effect every time I hear/see someone play a violin, despite the fact that I learned to play it very long ago:
- all violins look the same
- all violins sound like violins, only players make a big difference
I could never tell from afar if someone plays a Stradivarius or a piece of plastic.

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## drbluegrass

> I'm with the people on here that feel like an instrument is meant to be played, and that the benefit of a great instrument is first and foremost for the musician. Music is a huge part of my life, and I have no problem investing in it. I realise not everybody can do that, so I count myself blessed that I've been able to... I got my first "real" job last year and spent the better part of the year saving up until I could afford the instrument I connected with. Now I have an instrument that (used) approaches the 5k mark once all the accessories are added in. I consider that a steal for what I got. I am certainly not the person to spend that kind of money on anything. My own car isn't worth nearly that much. To me, with music being the part of my life that it is, it's worth it to have an instrument with "soul" for lack of a better word... a personality, depth, something that makes me want to pick it up and never put it down. I play a 3k clarinet (although it was lent to me). When I have to return it, I'm going to have to buy a clarinet of similar quality. I can't go back! I went down to Tennessee last year, to visit with some people and play some music. I stayed with the Gallaghers of Gallagher guitar and got in some jams and met a lot of people who make music a huge part of their life. The common "theme" down their it seems was that everyone's instrument was worth more than their car. You could tell with these people it wasn't a bragging thing, it was just the sacrifice it took to get the instrument that made their life better... I've made some sacrifices to get my instrument, and I can tell you, once you've done that, you don't leave it at home in a case. You play it, anywhere and everywhere you can. To me, that's part of the fun of this all. Do I get worried about my mando? Sometimes, and I definitely try to be a good steward of what I have. Does that keep me from bringing it everywhere? No, I can't stop playing it, how could I leave it home!!!



Perfectly stated. I'm in 100% agreement with everything you said. Today, I'll be picking up a Red Diamond Vintage F "Crusher" voiced mandolin that I've had laid away. Although I certainly do admire fine workmanship, fit, finish, and exemplary tone, you can bet this mandolin is going to be played...at home, at festivals, whatever. Oh yeah, almost forgot...I couldn't give a rip about status. But I admire fine instruments of any kind, especially acoustic ones.
I might add, I recently played a couple $1000 (+/- $200) Stonebridge mandolins that I'd be VERY proud to own. Superb tone and workmanship. Same with some Eastmans I've played. If you're not set on an American made mandolin you can get a lot of bang for the buck out of some of the $800-$1200 mandolins. I certainly wouldn't include them in the "beater" category. 


Tom

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## clarksavage

I'm with Eoin, but just learning it ... ever so slowly (I'm 58 now).

I've mostly struggled with money and when I was 18, I was given (for free and all) a 1926 Gibson A4.  I took it everywhere (in the rain, snow, up to mountains to camp overnight and play to some bright moon, stuff like that).  I never considered it "valuable" or "special."  (I do now, and it is actually still in pretty good shape, I credit that to the now very beaten original wooden case I've kept it in through all that.)

However, I had to struggle mightily, later, to buy the instrument I really wanted (well, I have a few now) and had some real fears about it losing value if I needed money (a regular feature of my life is reeling one in but then having to release it again in order to eat...)  So a "beater" - instrument of lower value in the larger sense - became the one I carried around and played the most.

I'm in a somewhat better position today so the fear of money / selling value is lower.  I'm also much more interested in playing the instrument I like whatever the circumstances.  So now, a "beater" is only an instrument I might take real risks with.  My favorite (more expensive, etc) instruments now go with me many more places, but I still take some care if conditions might go extreme.  I do love the instruments.

So, overall I don't really have any "beaters" any more.  I do have an instrument or two I'll take more risk with (physically) - but since the instruments are tools, I do want to use them where they work the best whenever I can.  My Martin D-18GE and my Sobell cittern go with me to the "lawn" for my University office hours in San Luis and I just love playing them there.  

FWIW

Clark

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## Bill Baldridge

I have a "beater" wife I take to the chicken wire bars and and an expensive one I take to the opera.  Hard to say which is better.  I take my best mandolin to the places I want to play my best music and my "beater" if I think no one is going to be there to play their best music.  I have found that people who place a high value on music tend to take good care of their instruments, and look out for mine as well.

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## Eliot Greenspan

it's pretty much all been said already and lots of different points of view on this. I much prefer playing my Phoenix to any other instrument I own. And I use it in most jam and gig situations. However, if I know I'm gonna be doing hard traveling or going to real inclimate places, I bring my backup, a very nice Breedlove. It's not a beater, although that's what I call it. Pros I know use Colling's MTs or other such options as their "beaters" when the Nugget, Dude or Loar's are in the shop or the road is too hard...

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## mandroid

as he says, Peter Mix's Carbon Fiber A mandolins will cover the beater 
and good instrument, nicely with just one.

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## Eliot Greenspan

> as he says, Peter Mix's Carbon Fiber A mandolins will cover the beater 
> and good instrument, nicely with just one.


Yes, I kinda covet one... plenty MAS but no $

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## Paul Kotapish

> as he says, Peter Mix's Carbon Fiber A mandolins will cover the beater 
> and good instrument, nicely with just one.


Alan Bond has a wonderful Mix F for sale in the classifieds right now. Had the chance to play it the other night and it is very nice, indeed. It's not anywhere near beater price, but you'll get a lot of mandolin for your money and you won't have to worry about leaving it in a hot car or freezing cabin.

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## Barry Wilson

I myself want one of everything so buying a $5k instrument will likely never be in the cards for me. I'm sure some people here would say all my instruments are beaters but most play and sound really good to me. that said, I find I don't play the old epiphone much anymore when I can grab the loar. when the mandobird arrives I doubt the epi a will do much more than look pretty on my wall. my fender sonoran acoustic was $320 cdn new and I adore that guitar

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## catmandu2

Me three...I love nice instruments but have too much fun just playing music--I just like playing and have a pile of amps and sound gear that, while it's just a bunch of gear, I couldn't live without as it enables me to play.  The pile just keeps getting bigger....while my resources for a good instrument remain the same (or shrinks)

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## pefjr

I have been all over this rock, to three World Fairs, two goat ropings', judged 17 county pie making contests , several 7 ring Circuses, once saw a monkey F$%^ a football, ....but..... I have never seen anything like you guys, and your beater mandolins...... I have a beater pick ...and my pride and joy heavy fender pick for special occasions. I was going to suggest this pick.... for some of you boys  that do not have the best pick for their beater mandolins but unfortunately it sold. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stevie-Ray-V...#ht_500wt_1115

An this guy had the nerve to charge another 5 bucks for shipping. :Disbelief:

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## J.Albert

Hoss,
or
Gibson F-5 "Bush"

If you're Sam, which one becomes the "beater"?

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## Lee

Some of us have a "sense of taste" that has to be solved with the most expensive mandolin we can afford. Whatever that level of expense is isn't really part of this discussion. When I practice, I generally use something less expensive/rare. When the time is right, I play the special one(s).

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## Buck

I don't generally believe in the "beater" concept, whether it's mandolins, or guitars, or whatever.  I play whatever instrument I'm enjoying at the time.  I feel like I play better, and I certainly enjoy it more.  It may or may not be the most expensive that I own.  Business travel, festivals, camping, gigs, etc.  If the conditions are too rough for a decent instrument, they're probably too rough for me.   :Smile:

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## Andy Fielding

I'm glad to see this thread got so much interest. Thanks for the thought-provoking replies.




> Personally,i wouldn't call a $1,000 Mandolin a 'beater',just less expensive.


Sure, $1000, or even $500, is serious dough in many people's books. But I couldn't resist saying "beater" because (a.) it was fun to use with "better", and (b.) I thought it might get more attention than something wordier.

By "beater", I meant "a less expensive mandolin whose value you're not worried about lowering by playing it a lot and taking it places."

I'll use myself as an example. I have two F's: a Gibson and an Eastman. I bought the Gibby new and it's what you'd call pristine. It sounds wonderful—but when I play it, I can't relax the way I can with the Eastman. I'm worried I'll bump it on the chair, or scratch it with a fingernail, or do any of the other 100 things you can to damage a perfect finish or a fragile peghead. And that's just at home.

By contrast, I can grab the Eastman, wail on it with abandon, and take it anywhere—and if it gets bumped or scratched, so what? It has no "collector's value". (Of course they said that about the Japanese Kentuckys, too [smile].) It doesn't have the Gibson's coveted sultry sound, but I play it more often and have more _fun_ with it. (And ironically, because I _have_ played it so much more, it's matured into a very good-sounding—and loud!—instrument... The one-piece bridge I made really helped, too.)

And frankly, at a jam with a dozen other people, I've found that volume can be more important than tone—and that it's hard to appreciate, or even hear, the difference between an expensive mando and a loud, cheaper one.

At times, the cheaper mando's tone may even be an _advantage_. I've been in places where my import mando's bright, "un-authentic" tone actually made it easier to hear, where a boutique-y mando's more subtle qualities would've been wasted. There are always lots of acoustic factors, of course; I don't claim to be able to generalize about something like that.




> I didn't buy my Brentrup because of the name on it or because it's super fancy. I bought it because it's loud and sounds great. Why would I want to keep it at home and take out my Kentucky 380, which is a fine "beater", but is vastly inferior...?


Well, again, I'm not talking about preferring a lower-quality instrument for no apparent reason. I doubt any of us would mind having a Brentrup we didn't worry over. (Maybe the solution is to buy 'em by the six-pack—_after_ you win the lottery? Heh.)




> When I first got a more expensive mandolin, I was afraid to take it to festivals, etc., because I was worried about it getting dinged but I got over that pretty quickly and I just play it because that's what it's for. If a person's gets a mandolin they're afraid to play, then perhaps that's not the mandolin for him/her.


That's a healthy non-materialistic attitude. I suppose I could feel that way if I knew I'd be keeping my "nice" mandolin the rest of my life, _and_ I didn't care if it was worth less than it could've been once my kids inherited it.




> Isn't 'better' simply a subjective assessment? What is 'better' for one person won't be for another.


True... But again, by "better" I don't necessarily mean "higher quality". I mean "more practical", or "more enjoyable, including comfort".




> I agree with Chip's sentiment in the very first reply. There's a feedback loop between player and instrument. I play better on instruments that inspire me; that sound great and don't present any obstacles to playing. That's not a feeling I get with cheap instruments. When I've played better, and owned better, I know what's missing and I feel like I'm fighting to get the results I want.


Well sure, but I suggest that has a lot to do with:

_ How well you can hear yourself. Onstage with mics, in a recording studio, or sitting around the coffee table with friends, sure. Elsewhere, for me it's not so important, and the comfort factor enters the equasion.

_ Your playing level. If you're David Grisman, you'll get considerably more out of a high-end instrument than a sub-$1K one. But for many of us here, it may not be such a profound limitation.

There's the initial pleasure with a finer instrument's tone. But I, at least, eventually get used to that. In fact, when I play an instrument that's _not_ inherently fabulous-sounding, I often find myself playing with more subtlety and imagination to compensate for it—if that makes any sense.




> Something that's often lost in these debates is that the idea of impressing someone with an expensive mandolin is darn near impossible outside of the community of mando-obsessives on these boards... My guess is that the only name on a headstock that folks would recognize is Gibson, all the others (no matter how desirable) usually mean nothing to most anyone, including other mandolin players. Again, the idea that a boutique mandolin signifies anything to 99.9% of the world is just crazy IMO.


LOL! How true! (BTW, I never intended this as a "debate", just a stimulating talk.)




> Yes, we have gone overboard. Did you see the Lin rookie card that sold on Ebay for $21,000? A damn plastic card, 17 of them.


On the plus side, isn't it good to know that collector hysteria isn't limited to the instrument world?  :?)




> As for the worry factor, I don't think it's much of an issue for most folks. The guys I know who play Loar-era Gibsons and prewar Martins take good care of their instruments and tend not to leave them unattended in the trunks of their cars on hot days, but otherwise treat their investments as well-valued tools, and play them most any place and any time they are serious about making music.


Yes, I'm all for Chris Thile's "C'mon, people, play your Loars!" attitude. Anyone who has a Loar—or "even" a Nugget, Gil, etc.—and doesn't mind taking it out on gigs, and then can actually relax enough to _play_ it, is a courageous soul IMHO. (Of course they may also have a few more at home and this one's their "beater".)

Vintage instruments are likely to already have imperfections, too. (In addition to the effects of pure age, their earlier owners may have played them harder because they weren't as insanely valuable as they are now. Bill Munroe always comes to mind, too...) So in that respect, it could be actually be less stressful to play a fine vintage instrument than a perfect new one that wasn't worth as much.




> And if your serious music making always takes place in a bar where the band needs chicken wire to fend off flying bottles and you are playing through an amp with the volume set at 11, there's probably no point in having a high-end instrument. In that case, a beater probably is better.


Or one with the Taser option.




> My preference is for a higher end mandolin that has been beat up a little, so you don't have to worry about keeping it "pristine".


That's ideal, but isn't your broken-in "working axe" still likely to be worth considerably more than your "nice" one? If you're grabbing your $5K Weber and heading for the parking lot, it may be because you're leaving your $20K Dudenbostel at home. It's all relative.

But now that you mention it, maybe these "distressed" new mandolins actually make sense! I've always laughed at the idea of people paying extra for instruments that'd been deliberately roughed up. But gee, do you think this may be their real purpose—not to look older and rarer, but so you don't have to worry about them getting banged around? I'd be the first to admit I was wrong about 'em.

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## geeterpicker

I never did understand the purpose of "beater" instruments. I'm rarely around campfires or situations where, if I want to play, I should be concerned about having a good instrument.  I can't afford the ultra high end or vintage mandos, but to me, if you are serious about playing, investing in a very good quality instrument is necessary. There are so many things that are disappointing about low end mandos - construction, tone, intonation, playability. There's not as much middle ground in mandolins, like there are with guitars, so you may as well spend a few hundred extra to get something decent. And I don't view someone taking out a high quality instrument as showing off, but rather as someone with good taste.

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## John L

I am lucky to have a couple of beater instruments that I would play anywhere. I have a handbuilt F-5 that I paid way under $1000 for, and I would put up against anything up to $3,000, and many well above that including some that have been mentioned in this thread. My 1970s Gibson Heritage would not be worth a lot in pristine condition, and mine has a repaired top crack. It is great player that I don't mind taking anywhere. Both instruments have been to a lot of campfires and beaches.

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## Bertram Henze

If you let them use it, it's a beater.

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## Chip Booth

Andy Fielding, it sounds to me like you are too worried about the condition of your Gibson to fully enjoy it, and that perhaps some gap exists that doesn't allow you to appreciate the difference between it and your Eastman.  I am not trying to bust on you, just making an observation after reading your long post.  I have never been in a situation where a "beater" mandolin would perform better or be heard louder or more clearly than my Gil.  If that ever happens I will sell it.  Again, I am not making a judgement, just suggesting that if you are worried about your mandolin and can't relax with it even in your own home then that probably isn't the instrument for you.  Perhaps you should consider getting rid of your Gibson and looking for something used and already broken in that will serve you better both in terms of volume and tone, and that allows you the freedom to not worry about it so much so that you can enjoy it in many more situations.

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## Jim

Mine are all beaters by price definition, However I am more comfortable with some in certain situations than others. A very important part of this is that all of mine have great action & intonation. When I travel I take a Bestler that cost me $19 , I seldom use it otherwise but when I'm sittin in that Hotel room or airport and play it I always think "wow this thing is fun to play". It's plywood and has a very thick finish so for a mandolin it's quiet and for playing in hotel rooms that's better. I have some 20s regals and a washburn, these are inexpensive and sound great but I don't take them out because I feel temp changes could be a problem with the old glue and no trus rod. Love to play them around the house though and have recorded with them for their individual tones. From my best to my worst I would not hesitate to perform with any of them.... I kept what I have because I liked it. I usually perform with a Rover RM75, I love the way it sounds and get lots of compliments on its tone from players. It is firmly in the low end of what many consider a beater but it's my best  and can hold its own in a loud jam. When I play it I also think "wow, this thing is fun to play". If I didn't think it was fun to play I'd have either fixed it or gotten rid of it. So all my beaters have their place and in there own way can be "better" for that purpose.

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## Scott Tichenor

By sheer chance we'll be publishing an extensive article/interview on this very subject a week from today. In it we're interviewing some of the most experienced musicians, retailers, vintage experts, writers and long-time mandolin enthusiasts on the planet. The article is probably 80% done and now all I'm doing is adding the last remaining content as it trickles in from the contributors. The emphasis is on vintage instruments in the less than $1K market, what they offer, and why these folks think they're a sound option for a musician. Should be very, very interesting. I really like what I've read so far and think it'll be an eye opener for a lot of readers.




> Hey guys,
> 
> Okay—we've all seen the photos and read the discussions about how fabulous-sounding, gorgeous, and expensive higher-end mandolins can be. It's an art form, for sure. There are endless ways that talented, patient luthiers can express themselves, and they fully deserve what they can get for their difficult, impressive work.
> 
> That said, some of us are just musicians. And while we appreciate the physical beauty of fine instruments—after all, we're artists—we're primarily here to get a good sound and say what we want to say.
> 
> Those few of us with deep pockets may think nothing about taking a $5K or $10K mandolin out on a gig, and damn the torpedoes. But I reckon most of us would find it more practical to have a couple of decent-sounding sub-$1000 mandos we could just take out there and, you know, play.
> 
> So when you get right down to it, are beaters better? Is it _that_ important to you to pull out an obviously expensive, famous-name mando so everyone can see how "serious" you are—then spend half your time worrying about getting it scratched or dinged or someone sitting on it or spilling beer on it or making off with it? If status wasn't an issue, would you rather turn up with your good-sounding beater, not worry what anyone thought of it, and give your entire attention to the music?
> ...

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## Cary Fagan

It's possible to have a 'good' instrument and a 'beater' and still play the good instrument out a lot. I take my Passernig to jams here and everywhere I travel, to festivals and back yards, on planes, trains, automobiles and bike. But no, I don't want to get sand in it at the beach and sometimes when I'm going out on my bike for a good ride I just want something on my back to play when I take a break.  That's beater time.

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## jstout

I dont own a Mandolin yet, but will when I find the right one and it will go anywhere and every where I go to play, just like my Martins do, they are D18 authentic,00018-Authentic and D28 museum Edition, eveyone of them is my beater, looking forward to finding my mando beater too.
One thing that I do is keep an all risk policy with Heritage and then just enjoy, have no one to leave my instruments to and Im just a caretaker for them for awhile, take reasonably good care of them and let anyone that wants to play one at a jam play them, that's why I have them making music and having fun.
jstout

PS  On the hunt for my "beater" Mandolin.

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## Keith Erickson

I don't know what more to add than what has been said already.  This is a great thread. 

 I play my Ludewig in our church choir and I have to say this mandolin fits me perfectly. It sounds perfect, great tone, very attractive to the eyes and addresses my mid-life musical needs.

My Michael Kelly A+ Plus is a decent mandolin. It's definitely not a Ludewig but if it decides to grow a pair of legs at a bluegrass festival, it won't be as painful to live through. Just my 2 ¢ .........

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## scapier

A good instrument is by definition an instrument that allows you to do what you hear in your head.  Strads and Loars have a certain sound that lets players do a certain thing.  Guareri and Heiden's let you do another, and it's the astute studied player that can feel the difference.  I've ordered a new instrument (another Heiden) that's setting me back a huge chunk of dough because after long years of playing I know what I need to excel as a player. I can either live with the great instrument I have or push for one that will help me get to the next level.  

Fact is, we fretted instrument players are small potatoes!  I have a good friend who is a classical cellist who has been horse trading 40 to 80k instruments over the past few years to find the cello that is just right for him.  He'd really like the 200k cello he played at a shop in New York this winter,and thinks of his second cello (a mere 40k) as a bit of a "beater."  And BTW he ain't rich, he's a classical musician!  So all this talk of 1k vs 5k is a tempest in a teapot by comparison.  

If you can't tell the difference between a $15 bottle of wine and a $50 bottle, lucky you, your wallet is not as light!  Sadly, I'm cursed with OCDMAS, a good palate, and a lower middle class income.

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## chip

Personally I can't really cope with the sound of cheap instruments. In my most recent band there was a fellow who insisted on bringing/playing an electrified Martin that's made out of some kind of composite material. Now here's a guy that owns a guitar shop and has some of the best guitars around. He found humor in playing this as he thought it was cool to fool the audience into thinking that this "Martin" was really the bomb...which should have been used on it. For me...tone is too important to be sacrificed in music. Life is short, be proud to play a fine instrument instead of "beaters". If ya need something to take to the beach thar's a different matter...

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## Paul Busman

Guy in my band has some great guitars, but he too plays one of those electrified Martin composites.  He's in several bands, and does some gigging solo and that thing takes a lot of abuse.  To my ear, it sounds perfectly fine-- certainly for the typical bar, K of C type of gig.  The composite will even hold up if it starts raining during an outdoor gig.
He also plays a Rondomusic  Sx 6 string banjotar which costs all of $160 and sounds pretty darned good. Again, no worries about taking that puppy to less than sedate venues.
http://www.rondomusic.com/country6vs.html

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## chip

Those whistles sound good!

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## JeffD

The more time in the saddle, the more one appriates a nice saddle. 

I am very much a materialist. In the sense that I like nice things and am willing to spend what I can to acquire them. Without shame. There is nothing to be ashamed of (or proud of for that matter) in having a superlative instrument. Its just great fun to have one and to enjoy all its advantages. There is similarly nothing to be ashamed of (or proud of for that matter) in a less expensive instrument.

I do very little for an audience, so I what the audience perceives or doesn't perceive has no effect on my purchase decisions. I like nice well made things that do well what they are designed an built to do.

Get the best mandolins you can afford and play the potatoes ouf of them. Thats my view.

There is no beater-mojo in madolins like there is in some circles around guitars. Some blues folks like to "boast" about their beat up old carpenter guitar, found in the men's room of a Greyhoud station in St. Louis with a pillow case for a case and a jute chord for a strap.

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## Jim

> Some blues folks like to "boast" about their beat up old carpenter guitar, found in the men's room of a Greyhoud station in St. Louis with a pillow case for a case and a jute chord for a strap.


Dude, I'm pretty sure that's my guitar :-)

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## dmamlep

I have a 1996 F5L Gibson and then I have a kentucky 260 that I would take anywhere, its cheap but great bark and tone.

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## Jeffff

I buy my instruments to play. If I was afraid to take one out, I would sell it.

It would break my heart to play someplace knowing I had a better sound at home hiding under the bed.

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## chip

Amen!

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## Goodin

I've played $300 mandolins that sound better than some $3000 mandolins.  Price is irrelevant in many cases.   There are excellent mandolins to be had under $1000, particularly Gibson teen A's and Big Muddy/Mid Missouri.  Can't go wrong with these mandolins.

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## Bertram Henze

> It would break my heart to play someplace knowing I had a better sound at home hiding under the bed.


Well put. 
Any minute without your best instrument is a waste of time for you.
Any minute without you is a waste of money for your instrument.

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## fatt-dad

the beach is a hostle place for a mandolin.  I love playing my mandolin at the beach.  That's why I have a beach mandolin.  I have a better sounding mandolin at home for sure, just not one that I'd take to the beach.  I mean on the beach.

It used to be a real lousy mandolin, but now my IV a-model kit is my new beach mandolin and I love it!

f-d

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## Bertram Henze

Hey Mr. Sandmandolin, bring me a dream...
Anyway, you're hereby excused  :Wink:

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## Cary Fagan

Can't wait to read the article that Scott has announced.

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## Terry Allan Hall

One of my all-time favorite mandolinists was the late bluesman Yank Rachell...who played the heck out of a Harmony H35 "Batwing" for quite a bit of his career. Many would consider that to be a "beater", but that was his preferred gigging/recording axe, even though he owned others, as well, including a early '30s F5.




Check this video out, btw...Rachell recounts how he acquired his first mandolin...pretty funny!  :Cool:

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## Caleb

I went to a Celtic-flavored show last night where one of the band members pulled out an electric Fender A-style for a couple songs. To me it sounded ok, but a little thin. But to everyone else there, who probably didn't even know what it was anyway, I'm sure it sounded fine. He gave the thing a pretty heavy workout, and for a gig like that, that instrument makes sense. I shudder at the thought of plugged in acoustic instruments anyway, and find even the best of them ruined by such a setting. But this guy made it all work. For people who only use a mandolin on a few songs, something that costs a lot of money is likely out of the question. And I constantly need reminding that the rest of the world doesn't care anyway. It's only the handful of musicians in any given setting that even notice. 

Side note: I'm an absolute tone junky when it comes to acoustic guitars. But many years ago an acoustic, be it an Ovation or a Martin, all sounded the same. I listen to songs from years ago now and pick apart the tone. But once upon a time I didn't notice. Didn't even know there was anything TO notice. This is the majority of people who have or ever will listen to music.

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## Andy Fielding

Hey guys,

I've let this thread stew for a while, and your posts have been very thought-provoking... Thanks for that!

I'm still not sure I've clearly expressed what I meant when I started this thread. I'll take one more shot:

"Do you ever take a cheaper, but still good-sounding instrument out for a jam, finding that the comfort you experiencenot worrying quite so much about its physical safety as you would a more valuable instrumentcompensated for its less-than-ideal sound?"




> Andy... it sounds to me like you are too worried about the condition of your Gibson to fully enjoy it, and that perhaps some gap exists that doesn't allow you to appreciate the difference between it and your Eastman.


Believe me, dude, as a life-long player, I certainly do appreciate high-end instruments. I assumed most of us could when I started this topic.




> I have never been in a situation where a "beater" mandolin would perform better or be heard louder or more clearly than my Gil. If that ever happens I will sell it.


I'm not sure I know what you mean by "perform better", but I've certainly had less-expensive instruments that were quite, quite loud. For example, while my Eastman doesn't have my Gibbie's lovely woodiness, it's unquestionably louderit's the loudest mandolin I've heard. (Of course the one-piece bridge I made for it probably has something to do with that, heh.)

And I must admit: When I'm in a jam with 20 other people, and it's my turn to solo, I'm quite happy just to be _heard_. I don't know what kinds of jams you participate inbut frankly, there's no way even _I_ can appreciate the subtle complexities of a high-end instrument under those conditions. I know; I've tried it. (That's something else that occurred to me after I started this thread: Sure, everyone at a jam can _see_ you playing a status-brand mando, but can theyor even youpossibly _hear_ it clearly enough for that to make a musical difference? So, what's important? But I suppose that's another topic...)

Also, while I don't mean to theorize about anyone's affluence here, I can see how _some_ people who could afford something like a Gil might, by virtue of their bank balances, also be able to take it out to jam and not worry a bit about it, or let the fact that they're holding a mandolin that cost as much as a new car inhibit their playing.

God knows I can't afford a Gil. But if I saved up for years and somehow managed to get one, you sure as heck wouldn't find _me_ taking it out of the house. Say what you wish about my attitude as a musician or whatever, but that kind of investment would be about more than me; it'd be about my family, too.

On the other hand, let's say you're flush enough to buy a Gil the way you'd buy some new socks. Maybe you even buy them by the six-pack. Are you likely to worry about taking them out? I doubt it. So while I don't presume to know how loaded any of you are, this topic probably wouldn't be relevant to the Mr. Monopoly types among you.  :?)




> Again, I am not making a judgement, just suggesting that if you are worried about your mandolin and can't relax with it even in your own home then that probably isn't the instrument for you.


It _is_ the instrument for me to take out now and then and play and savour and appreciate as an example of beautiful craftsmanship. But no, it's not the instrument for me to whack on every day, or to haul out to parking lots. 

Fortunately, I can still enjoy myself, and keep growing as a player, by playing something much less valuable, and which I also feel a lot less protective about. I thought there might be a connection therefor some of us, at leastand that's what I thought I'd explore here.

That said, when I started this I didn't intend for it to have a purely financial focus. Was I being naive? Stuff's complicated, ain't it?

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## mandolirius

Doesn't seem complicated to me. I'll admit you seem to be doing your best to make it so, however.

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## Michael H Geimer

I have a dedicated beater mandolin, a Mid-mo M-0. So many good times with that little guy! It goes to the beach, camping, and as a carry-on item.

It was clean-as-a-whistle when it came to me ten years ago. Today it is quite weathered, but it sounds excellent and plays wonderfully. The tuning machine are beginning to suffer, but as F-D points out, those are easily replaced. I have several times been asked up on stage to jam—not sure why folks keep asking _me_—and never felt drowned out or disappointed to have the Mid-mo.

*That said, whenever practical I take along the higher quality instruments, and do so because they are the better instruments.* This accounts for 99.9% of my playing.

LOL. I recall a certain cafe member used to shudder reading my posts about this Mid-Mo, as she believed it was worthy of so much more than to be some dude's trail-beater, hanging from a tree limb out in the harsh elements.

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## Jim Yates

I know of a few young players who can play tunes that make many of us Martin and Gibson owners' jaws drop in the festival parking lots while playing their $300 Yamaha and Ibanez instruments.  I recall seeing a fellow in his 20s with an Ibanez A model waiting for his turn to solo at a parking lot jam.  The older players with expensive instruments would put up with his chording along, but never gave him a solo.  I heard him later in a more open minded jam and he could have blown away any of the guys in the first jam.
There's a 22 year old who has been playing around southern Ontario on his Harmony Sovereign since he was 15, who would not be out of place trading solos with Tony Rice.

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## Mike Bunting

I have admired players like this too, but this doesn't really deal with the original question.

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## Rob Meldrum

I have a 150th anniversary Martin D-35 that doesn't leave my house.  All it takes is one drunk at one gig to destroy an instrument.  The instruments that I take out camping, boating, or jamming are all replaceable for under $300.  If I had ten times the money I have, I might change my price point.  Rob

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## Virginian

Uh.... yeah, I usually strap my mandolin to my back when I go hiking in the mountains (North Carolina, that is).  Call it schtick, but you can't beat the experience of sitting right on the edge of Hanging Rock playing Sweet Afton.  But then again, that's why I picked up mandolin.  Could you imagine some ---hole walking up a narrow mountain path with a Guild Dreadnought strapped to their back?  What a jerk.

So... anything I buy is subject to near-criminal amounts of abuse.  I don't own any $5000 mandolins yet, but for where I am in life right now, $1000 might as well be $5000.  I have my "nice" mandolin coming shortly and I don't suspect my habits will change anytime soon.

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## Mike Bunting

> Uh.... yeah, I usually strap my mandolin to my back when I go hiking in the mountains (North Carolina, that is).  Call it schtick, but you can't beat the experience of sitting right on the edge of Hanging Rock playing Sweet Afton.  But then again, that's why I picked up mandolin.  Could you imagine some ---hole walking up a narrow mountain path with a Guild Dreadnought strapped to their back?  What a jerk.
> 
> So... anything I buy is subject to near-criminal amounts of abuse.  I don't own any $5000 mandolins yet, but for where I am in life right now, $1000 might as well be $5000.  I have my "nice" mandolin coming shortly and I don't suspect my habits will change anytime soon.


Good on you. You have to live life and not obsess with every little thing that could go wrong.

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## Andy Fielding

> Doesn't seem complicated to me. I'll admit you seem to be doing your best to make it so, however.


If I am, I'd be glad to know about it... That's probably one of the reasons I started this thread.

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## Jim Garber

Yes, they are better...

----------

Loretta Callahan

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## brunello97

> Yes, they are better...


Better? Or Beater?

Mick

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## nobullmando74

I don't worry about taking my Campanella out. That's why I have musical instrument insurance. All instruments to me are meant to be played. Wheres the fun of owning a 5000 and up mandolin and being paranoid that you're going to scratch or ding it? That reminds me of playing a Collings MF5 I owned at a party. I was really getting into the jam we had going and scratched the scroll several times in row. I did end up selling that mandolin but the scratches always reminded me of that good time. I can't be the only musician that looks at the dings and reminisces about when the happened. They remind of us of our journey through life and the good and the bad things that we've experienced. Sorry to be rambling but to answer the question, Beaters are not better to me.  :Cool:

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## Kerry Krishna

Andy convinced me this afternoon to put this post up here instead of keeping it a Private Message that I sent this morning


 I just saw your thread for the first time today, and wanted to tell you here instead on on the Forum. 
 I bought a Monteleone Grand Artist back in '89 when they were a relatively cheap 6k. I started playing it out almost immediately. I played in a touring machine called Acoustically Inclined for 5 years up Canada way for 5 solid years, and my axe has a lot of battle scars.  They were well fought for though, and I don't particularly mind them. Mine is the most used G.A. that I have ever seen photographed. It is a pretty great sounding axe too. Tony Rice once borrowed it for a gig in Winnipeg, and said it was the best sounding one he had yet heard, so you know I was doing something right.  These days it sits and waits to get played at a  jam session every week,as I am no longer playing out. Right from the start of owning this world class axe, at all the Folk fests and other festivals, I would hand it to anyone who asked to play it. None of it really mattered, as it was no longer  a pristine instrument after the 1st year of ownership . 
 Here is a short story tha sums it up. 
Two years ago I was in Winnipeg at one of my best friends house's showing him my new Collings D1A Varnish that I had them  build .Mark was talking to his 14 year old son and explaining things.   The Monteleone was being handed around, as was the D1A and my older Collings D2H. 
Mark explained that the new  D1A had cost almost 10k with case,  the old D2H was 3k , and the Monty was worth about 24k.
Mark's 14 year old son was trying playing all three and was totally blown away that  I did not care at all if the Monty got dinged or bumped or banged, and that he did not have to be super careful with it, while I wanted him to be super careful with the D1A.

Daniel was at a totals loss as to why .
 I had to explain that it did not have anything to do with value, but rather, to do with which instrument was newer, and needing to be kept that way (for the time being) .

 So, to end off,  my Monty is my beater. I don't take any better care of it than my other axes. 

 The reason that I did not want to post this on your thread, is that I have suffered backlash several times on the Forum for owning this axe.  Lets see what happens this time. Time will tell if posting this here was a good idea Andy.


I hope my message here adds to your answer about this..

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## JeffD

I see no advantage to owning less of a mandolin than you can afford.

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## Kheath

Both of mine are beaters I guess, by price. I have my first, an A style savannah, that I spent 65 bucks on. I fairly recently "upgraded" to a Morgan Monroe. The Savannah is now my "beater" which is perfect for throwing on my pack horse when I disappear in the woods for 2 weeks at a time, I daresay most of you who own a 5K mandolin would not be comfortable with your instruments subjected to that kind of abuse......Kevin

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## UncleDave

Just got home from 3 weeks in semi-primitive conditions and shared housing in the Tetons.  I had labored over taking my prime Weber over my Kentucky 360 (not quite a $5 beater but lots of scars over the miles), choosing the KY and glad I did.  No worries about where I stored it, temp/humidity fluctuations, or bumping around in crowded jams.  It performed adequately.  Highlights that convinced me I had made the right choice:  several occasions of folks commenting, "Oh I've always wanted to learn to play mando!"  I immediately thrust it into their hands, taught open G,C, and D along with a simple strum and left them alone with only comment..."Here's the case when you're done."  They were ecstatic, later commenting, "I'm gonna get me one of these."  I hope they enjoy the ride as much as I have.  I never would have given such opportunity with The Weber.    Upon my return home, she welcomed me home with her sweet voice as she melted into my arms.  Aaaahh.

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## Kerry Krishna

There are sure some terrific responses to this thread. Both Kieth and Uncles comments make me think.

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## Kheath

I also realize that my situation is unusual, but when you are dealing with the stress of horses, mules, pack string, and a couple of dudes who usually have limited (at best) experience in the saddle, why add to it? I will give you a prime example, many years ago I was a lowly wrangler working for a dude ranch, I mean guest ranch, and we took a group of dudes...er.. guests on a 2 day trail ride/camping trip, and part of the trail driving experience was campfire music/ sing-a-long kind of thing. One of our wranglers was a top notch musician, and he had a beautiful Martin M-36 ( I still remember the model #)that cost more than my first truck. We couldnt believe he brought it along but he did. Insisting, like many here, that the point of owning it was playing it. Well long story short, (too late I know) an axle on the wagon snapped causing the wagon to roll over on its side and a cast iron dutch oven to land right on top off the guitars case and breaking off the headstock. Thats why I carry a 65.00 mandolin into the back country...........Kevin

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## JeffD

I fell in love with my "beater" mandolin. I have told this story eslewhere I guess but its not irrelevent here. 

Normally I don't subscribe to the beater concept. I love and take care of all my instruments, and don't want to see any of them get more abuse than they would get being played hard. But years ago I got to wondering about the value of my A2. After talking with folks at Elderly I keenly felt some risk taking it out all the time. It's not irreplaceable, but pretty close. Certainly they are not making '23 Gibson A2 snakeheads anymore. 

So I went and got something being made today that I would be less worried about. I got a brand new Aspen II by Weber. That instrument turned into my other number one instrument. For a long time it was the only one I played. I love the sound. I love how light it is, and yet it can be authoritative. I especially like how it is not a Gibson sound. I went so far as to get cowboy art applied to it. The thing is now so dern cool I am afraid to take it out. It is irreplaceable.

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## journeybear

Are beaters better? Some beaters are better than other beaters, and these are the better beaters. Some of them play like butter - the better butter beaters. Even if they are just a little better, they are a little bit better beaters than other beaters. Like popcorn - a little bit better with a little bit of butter. My Aunt Betty Bettinson had an old piccolo mandolin, forget the make, nothing well-known, but it was old, even older than her, nice action, nice old wood, played real easy. Aunt Betty Bettinson's little bitty beater was a better beater, cause it played like  butter, better than a lot of other beaters. You better believe it! 

Just sayin' ...  :Whistling: 

Personally, most of my life I have only had one instrument, usually a Gibson, so it went with me everywhere - camping, hiking, to the beach, to festivals, jams, and parties - and for the most part I was just real careful with it. My basic philosophy concerning this is you always want to sound your best, so bring your best. Just treat it like it's your best.

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## jonwints

95% of my playing is done by myself. Even at 67 years old, this is not quite true of my sex life! 
Seriously though, it's important to me that I am pleased with the sound my mandolin makes since I am the main listener. My Duff F5 gets most attention and for dessert, I play my Gibson F5G or my 1913 A Gibson Teardrop. 
When I am up for something really old-time, I play my 1895 Bruno Brothers NY bowlback. 
I cant play fast, so I try to play mellow and cool. I love my mandolins. They keep me young at heart.

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## Wolfmanbob

I'm amazed how many resposes thier are to this thread. That being the case, I'll say this. Good instruments actually do sound and play better...duh?! Better instruments tend to cost more. Once in a while there are good sounding instruments to be found that cost less, and it's not necessarily required to spend 5 - 10 thousand to have a good instrument. However, the better you get, the more discerning you become, and it pleases you and inspires you to have a great instrument. On the other hand, as we know, a great player can often make a piece of junk sound good.

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## Nick Triesch

I think a great player can make firewood sound good.   A few years back in San Diego I went to a John Moore workshop.  He was playing an old Kentucky F5.  When asked how often he changed his strings he replied "I don't remember the last time I changed my strings."   He could make that mandolin sing!

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## jstout

I got one mandolin, its my beater it goes where I go and gets played by anyone that plays it respectfully, dont think I would own a mandolin that was not my "beater" even if it costs $10K.

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## DerTiefster

I see a lot of interesting perspectives here.  I liked Allan's back in #40, JeffD's in the #60s, and a few others that were particularly well-reasoned.  Amateur that I am in music, I am a professional in my own field.  I use tools that are appropriate.  My automotive hobby, though, provides a better example.  Good tools cost more money, break less often, and you get fewer knuckle-busters with them.  There are both performance and safety aspects.  You buy those good tools to use, not look at.

Musical instruments are tools, too.  For some they are tools to play out for hire.  For some they are home entertainment toys, or facilitate personal expression.  For all of these, playability is important.  For most purposes, tone is important (piezos aside).  For a smaller set, volume is important.  Playability, tone, and volume in the same instrument generally means it is in-demand.  It will be scarce, cost many dollars and carrying it around risks loss much greater than that for (readily replaceable) wrenches and hammers.

What is a beater and what is irreplaceably precious depends upon the beholder.  There is a cost for taking an instrument to a gig.  You may not normally think of an instrument as a consumable, but if there is a finite chance of theft or destruction, the risk can be monetized.  If the cost is acceptable in view of the benefit, you take the risk.  If not, then you do something else.  If you don't get the pleasure from an instrument that its price merits, you sell it.  A high volume (loud) instrument won't require the work to get volume, so your effort as a musician can go to other things and make for a better performance.  Or you can enjoy the tone of your home instrument that can't provide the volume your regular gig instrument puts out, possibly even doing your composition and arrangements with it at low volume so your spouse can get some sleep.  Or like fatt-dad you take your already depreciated and zero-value to anyone else mando to the beach, and enjoy the heck out of it.

I believe that our O.P. expressed his recognition that beater-ness is in the eye of the beholder.  This seems to me the key observation in answering "the beater question."  Beaters are better for some things in some places.  High-grade (expensive) tools are called for at some times in some places, but if all you have is a beater, you use it.  If you left your good tools home for fear of using them in their appropriate venue (and you decide where that is), then you didn't really need them.  If the proper role for your good/expensive tools is for composition and practice, not performance, and then they're right at home when at home.  Decide what you want to do with your tools and then do that.  Then do justice, love mercy and walk humbly, and you'll be set.

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## Austin Bob

Instruments are made to be played. Whenever I see an old guitar or mandolin, it's not hard to imagine how all those wear marks, dings and scratches got there. You wonder how many people owned it, what kind of music they played, what inspired them to play some more. You can keep a new mandolin inside a case and never play it except in your living room, or you can take it everywhere and let your music flow through it. 
So I don't have any beaters. I treat all my instruments with care and respect, but I bought them to play. I have no problem taking my new mando out to play live, that's why I bought it. If it gets a ding, such is life.

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## oneeyeross

So, living on my "soldier's shilling" as I do, a $1000 mando wouldn't be considered a "beater"...it'd be the most expensive instrument in the house....I have to put Kentucky mandos on layaway to get a new one....

Having said that, yes, there is a difference between cheap and expensive mandolins, fit, finish, quality of craftsmanship, and materials SHOULD all be better with the higher priced instrument.  There are obviously exceptions, this being life and all.  I've had the luxury of holding and playing an older Gibson oval hole A style mandolin in my younger years, and the difference between that and a cheaper mandolin is obvious, the way they sound and play is incredible.  Maybe one day, when I win the mega-millions....

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## mandroid

... Any how .. If the mandolin you can afford is _well set up_ ,
frets leveled,    the fingerboard fretting accurately spaced, so it notes OK.

[friend got a nice old 'G' A4, but the fret slotting was off, so there is that,
 individual instrument , brand names aside, not all are identical, even same brand]

so if it plays well, mechanically, you have all the same notes
 as the premium priced ones,   to play the music  ... 

 upgrade peer pressure aside..   :Whistling:

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## Paul Kotapish

It all depends on the beater -- and who's doing the beating.

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## Caleb

> So, living on my "soldier's shilling" as I do, a $1000 mando wouldn't be considered a "beater"...it'd be the most expensive instrument in the house....


Though I have a good job and make a nice salary, I also have a large family and we've opted for my wife to be a stay-at-home mother.  So a $2-3k mandolin has never been much of a priority in my house.  But what always gets me is when I run into people who blow thousands on laptops, flatscreen TVs, etc. (something that will be thrown in the trash in a few short years and replaced by something that costs thousands) but will not even consider spending a few hundred on a quality instrument when they become interested in playing.  I guess everyone has their own priorities.  

Having said that, I do plan on getting one "high end" mandolin in the next couple years which will (hopefully) end up being a life-long musical partner.

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## Paul Kotapish

> . . . But what always gets me is when I run into people who blow thousands on laptops, flatscreen TVs, etc. (something that will be thrown in the trash in a few short years and replaced by something that costs thousands) but will not even consider spending a few hundred on a quality instrument . . . I guess everyone has their own priorities.


Yep. It's about priorities. It's a lot easier to afford a really nice mandolin when you drive an old beater of a car, skip the club memberships, forget the boat, throw out your TV(s), wear a plastic watch, shop at the thrift store, forget the vacations, live in a cheap house, dine on rice and beans, and otherwise maintain a low-consumption lifestyle. 

A lot of folks I know with world-class instruments live fairly close to the bone in other regards.

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## Mike Bunting

> Yep. It's about priorities. It's a lot easier to afford a really nice mandolin when you drive an old beater of a car, skip the club memberships, forget the boat, throw out your TV(s), wear a plastic watch, shop at the thrift store, forget the vacations, live in a cheap house, dine on rice and beans, and otherwise maintain a low-consumption lifestyle. 
> 
> A lot of folks I know with world-class instruments live fairly close to the bone in other regards.


And they should be commended for avoiding the crass consumer lifestyle.

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## Bigtuna

Beaters are better for the beach, BBQs/oyster roasts, festivals, late night drunken jams, etc. Its always good to have a back up too. My beater was my main mandolin until I got my "heirloom".

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## Clockwork John

It all depends on how you define beater, and also how you define value... I have 3 mandolins. One is a beater in every sense of the word. It was under $100 when it was new, but I paid $40 for it used, off craigslist. It needed some work and it has some scuffs and scratches. This is a mandolin I will take anywhere without hesitation. The beach, camping, a music festival where people will be drunk and rowdy- doesn't matter, because the mandolin isn't worth worrying about. Another mandolin I have is a Kentucky KM-140S that I picked up used. Has some wear marks, including some belt buckle rash. This is my "nicest" mandolin, in that it is the best made and most expensive of the 3, and has the best tone and the best setup of the 3. I won't take it absolutely anywhere like I will my craigslist beater, but darn close. As for mandolin #3, it is a cheap laminate pac-rim instrument I picked up at a pawn shop. But I consider it my most valuable mando. Why? Because it is special to ME. It was my first mandolin, the one I learned to play on, and I picked it up on a trip with my wife, visiting her family in Colorado. It has sentimental value. So I take care of it. I don't take it many places, partially because I don't want anything catastrophic to happen to it, but mostly because I have a nicer, better sounding "beater" to take. Beater instruments defintely have their place, but one man's beater is another man's valuable. It's all a matter of perspective.

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## joshtree

Well, I can tell you that if somebody handed me a $30K mandolin I could make it sound everybit as good as my KM160 but probably not much better.  I reciently picked up the Kentucky because I was terrified taking my Breedlove out (Scottish heritage so that feels like an expencive thing to carry around) and since then the KM has seem more action both in and out of the house.  Hopefully I will grow into the Breedlove and feel that I can in good concience subject others to my playing.  then Perhaps it will be worth the risk.
But the question is like asking which of my children I love more;  one will likely make enough money to pay for my convalescent home but the other one will probably visit me more there.  
Short answer:  it is  a highly personal issue so buy as many mandolins as you can and see for yourself.   :Smile:

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## mandogoshen

> *They're tools. A pro will use good quality tools but won't fall for the faddish additions which some manufacturers may try to add.* 
> I think of them like cars I loath spending money on them for the sake of it, but if my job involved taking people around in one, then I'd spend the money on quality & style.
> 
> Posted by an amateur KM160 player who drives an 11 year old Skoda.


Couldn't agree more.  I play in a 'tourist repertoire' ensemble and triple on guitar, mando and bass.  Our instrument sound is acoustic 'plugged in'.  Mando is a production Washburn M3SW w/a K&K dual transducer.  Guitar is an '87 Alvarez DY-39 w/a solid top and HPL sides and back w/a Baggs system taken from a Seagull.  Bass is a '76 Gibson Grabber 3 w/Emg Select in reverse P-bass configuration.  Run the guit/mando through a Baggs Para Acoustic D.I.  The bass through a Crate 50w B12.

Over the years I've had and sold guitars, mandolins, etc. that would be worth a rather large fortune in today's market.  While I respect the amount of artistry, craftmanship, creativity, et al that goes into making some of these works of art it would be ludicris for me to invest thousands of dollars to present to a largely indifferent audience.  They don't know and they dont care.

That being said it's always a pleasure when another player compliments me on my 'sound' and 'taste' in between sets.  That usually leads to a 'tech talk' and me bringing them onstage and showing them my rig.  The only thing I really splurged on is the Trace Elliot amp I use as a stage monitor.  They're worth every dime.

Btw, I'm a utility cyclist who commutes 30+ miles rt to work and back by bicycle.  Own 6 high quality bikes as each is for a different discipline.  I go top shelf where my bikes are concerned.   :Smile:

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## Big Ed

After reading the post about beater mandolins being better for playing out I took a beater to a jam sesion. Had a good time but sure missed my main mandolin. If you got it play it.

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## JeffD

Most of my playing is playing out. At home I practice, but I go to two jams and a contra dance a week and various other parties and what not, so if I were to follow the beater better dictum, I would be playing the beater most of the time.

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