# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  Ron Oates Lack of Customer Service

## mandoaz

I ordered a 5 string electric mando from Ron Oates back in March of 2003 at which time he told me it would take 2 months to complete...After he cashed my money order, I have not been able to make consistent contact with him whatsoever. He has not returned my phone calls/e-mails at all!

I'm just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience. Has anyone been able to contact him recently? If so, how were you able to reach him? Any details you can share would be extremely helpful!

Thanks,
Mike

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## mrmando

Last time I called Ron he picked the phone up right away, but he said he likes to spend a week at a time in his shop -- during which a lot of phone messages will pile up, which he feels like he doesn't have time to return.

Ron is so backed up with work that he has stopped taking orders and removed his phone number from his Web site (however, it's still at MY Web site, emando.com). My advice would be to keep dialing and try to catch him on a day when he's at home and not holed up in his shop. Figure out how many rings you get before the voice mail picks up, and hang up in the middle of the last ring -- that way, you don't get charged for a phone call that isn't returned.

Is this the ideal way to do customer service? No, but it's the way things are. I'm hoping Ron succeeds in working through his backlog. Maybe he needs to hire somebody to help him -- I think he and his customers are both suffering from the popularity of his instruments.

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## mandoaz

I guess I'm at the point where I'm done giving Ron the benefit of the doubt....This is the same Ron Oates who literally fell off the face of the earth for 3 months this past summer and now again for the past month+....i.e. did not return a single phone call or e-mail...To me, that is _flagrantly_ unprofessional....As a luthier, if you fall behind schedule, you owe your paying customers the courtesy of informing them of where you are in the process....

I would rhetorically ask, "How hard would it be for Ron to compose an e-mail update which he could carbon copy to his 40+ backed-up customers?" My main beef is NOT that it's taken 5 times longer than he said it would take to complete my mando. It is his lack of COMMUNICATION. What else is a customer to assume except, "I gave this man over $1000 of my money, and he doesn't even respect me enough to take 5 minutes out of his day to write a 3 sentence e-mail response..."

Unfortunately, yet completely justifiably, it will be Ron Oates' popularity as a luthier that will suffer as a result of all this....

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## mandolooter

I sympathize with you and your last line sums it up in a nutshell!

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## mandroid

I am not dissuaded about the depositlooting yet, until my$1250 is worth talking to me. 
AFofM have any kneecappers in Denver?

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## Lee

I believe what Ron's done is mail fraud, a federal offense. Contact his local police department and file a complaint. If this becomes your intention, send a certified letter to him stating your intention. It sounds rather inexcusable at this point.

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## thistle3585

Well, have you heard anything yet?

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## mandroid

I have heard nothing but #talk and that was a year ago, I am forced to mail via registered return reciept, a) change of my adress notification, and notice that If I hear no reply still, I MUST consider all previous statements to be fraudulent, #(only talk)and take it from there.
Mail fraud #is one count.

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## mandolooter

Still no response...I'd be checking into legal options at this point in time. Keep us updated and keep this thread active, who knows it might save someone a heartache. Good luck my friend!

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## mandoaz

All right--here's the latest from my end...I contacted the Boulder Police Department who referred me to the District Attorney's office. I have been working with a lady by the name of Claire Hunter in the Consumer Division who has dealt with Ron Oates' victims before. I would encourage anyone and everyone who has outstanding issues with this unethical luthier to contact her. I know there are quite a few Cafe members in the same boat as me and who knows how many other casual board viewers out there who have or will see this thread. If we can demonstrate to the DA's office that there is a pattern of unethical business practices, they can act on our behalf to right these wrongs.

Again, her name is Claire Hunter and her phone# is (303) 441-1664.

Thanks,
Mike

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## mandofiddle

FYI, I just got off the phone with RonO. Obviously I won't be able to put out these fires, but I'll tell you what I know. I'm just the messenger here though, so don't shoot me... He's down to 11 orders left to fill, with me being last on his list. He told me he has 3 ready to go out the door, and that he's just waiting on the hardware to arrive. He's expecting to get them out by the end of this week or the beginning of next week. He said Mike above is one of them, and that he's sending the mando COD. He also said that the other fella on here complaining has a bit of a different story. That he tried to get his deposiot back because he didn't have the money to pay the 2nd half when it would be due (upon completion). From what RonO told me, is that he said he wouldn't give the deposit back because he had started the mandolin (acceptable in my book) and ceased communication due to threats (i.e. the DA in Boulder). He is still planning to deliver that mandolin COD when it is finished. Whether it is accepted and paid for is another story. I wouldn't expect to get your deposit back if you don't accept the mandolin, as thats why they call it a deposit... He told me he turned out 35 instruments last year, and that he's expecting to have his list wiped out by summer. Then he told me he's quitting the mandolin-making business and going back to working construction. Said its a lot easier to work only 60 hour weeks instead of 80, and to not be broke all the time.

Again, I'm only telling you what he told me on the phone. Do whatever you guys feel you have to do, but I thought I'd communicate our conversation...

Dave

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## Tom C

I would think the buyer who is bowing out is entitled to get their deposit back once the maker sells the so called mando to another buyer.

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## mandofiddle

I have no idea how that works in the luthier world. I know that in the graphic design world, I get a signed contract that says once the work has started and the deposit is paid and the contract is signed, that the deposit is non-refundable. I also have this in writing though, so there is no question...

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## Tom C

Yeah, but that business is different. Just a small example. If you make a logo for somebody's company and then they decide they do not want it. You can not re-sell it
unless that company has the same name and doesn't mind having a scull with cross bones for a logo. A mando you could re-sell even with all custom appointments. They're are pretty static.

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This might be one of those ethics versus legal issues. #If the item producted has no value to anyone else (custom graphics) then I can see giving no refund. #If the items still has value I can see giving the refund but only after the item is sold to someone else.

Of course, since most custom builders give a 48 hours approval, it is really in the best interest of the builder to give the refund otherwise the build will have a mandolin that has been shipped twice and "didn't sound right".

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## mrmando

Thanks for doing that, Dave.

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## mandoaz

First off, thanks for sharing the details of your conversation, Dave.

Now let me explain why I'm not very convinced of how truthful Ron was being with you. Since September, that's right SEPTEMBER, Ron has told me that my mando would be ready in 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. I guess after about the fifth or sixth time I heard this line was when I stopped believing Ron. So when he tells you that he expects to be finished this week or early next week, I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.

Furthermore, I know none of you know me personally, but I am not one to complain over a small matter. So let's face it, when I've reached the point where I am contacting the DA's office and the Boulder Police Department, it is because I believe that I have been SERIOUSLY wronged.

Before I let my anger get the best of me, I'll stop typing...for now. :Frown:  

Again, thanks for the update Dave.

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## Mandobar

i do a lot of business consulting for small businesses. #i was a corporate vice president before that at a fortune 100 company where we were taught basic old fashioned business skills as well as the new-fangled stuff. #(in addition my family has also run the same successful business for over 100 years. so i grew up around this stuff too.)

here is something that i have learned over the years-
if you are going to miss a deadline, then you need to be up front and honest about where you are in your schedule. #hiding from the truth just hurts business. #all you need is one person bad mouthing you at a party (or a jam in this case) and your reputation is damaged to the point where you are going to feel it financially. 

as for the deposit, if the luthier has a policy not to return, then that's fair. #if he is making up the rules as he goes along, well, that's another story.

enough preaching, time for some pickin'

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## mandoaz

Today marks the ONE YEAR anniversary of the day Ron Oates cashed my check...Over the course of this year, I have received ONE returned e-mail and ZERO returned phone calls. That is an absolute JOKE! Words cannot describe how insulted/angry I feel...  # #

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## jmcgann

Yesterday I took delivery of an Aylward Master model (like a Selmer Django guitar). I paid me deposit in Sept. 02 for a June 03 delivery, so it was 9 months late of schedule.

However, we kept in touch and there were a number of good reasons that I was made aware of. It's easier to grin and bear it when there is communication with the luthier. The guitar is totally awesome and was well worth the wait- I asked for a few custom touches (maple back, sides and neck, plain fingerboard, etc.) which set it apart from his usual. But one man shops are up against a lot- one thing goes wrong, and the whole endeavor grinds to a halt, and the domino effect takes place. Small consolation but a fact none the less!

It sounds like yer man is getting out of the business and going back to construction, and so that'll be that. I hope your new axe is worth waiting for in any event!

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## mandoaz

Hmmm....Let's see....Today is March 25....The last word we heard from Ron (thanks to Dave's post) was on March 9 at which point he said that he expected to have the instruments shipped in approx a week or so....

Maybe the hardware hasn't arrived...Maybe the shipping company botched an order...Maybe Ron's dog ate my mandolin and my money...Maybe my mandolin still has roots and leaves...Maybe--oh, wait, I mean DEFINITELY Ron is running a dishonest, uncommunicative, and utterly unethical business.

Anyone who has outstanding issues with Ron Oates, please contact Claire Hunter at the DA's office at the number in my previous post above.

Thanks,
Mike

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## mandolabra

i, too, ordered a mandolin at the same time you did, mandoaz. same troubles with communication. haven't heard anything for awhile...reaching a level of supreme frustration. think I'll contact the DA...this sucks.

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## mandolabra

has anyone heard anything recently? i've contacted the DA and am filling out an official complaint form...

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## mandofiddle

Nothing new from my end unfortunately...

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## mandoaz

I have heard nada, nothing, zip....I'll say it again...This is the worst purchase experience I have had...EVER! When I think of all the other quality luthiers I could have given my hard earned money to, it makes me sick...

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## berkeleymando

Interestingly, there are no fewer than 3 separate rono emandos for sale in the MC classifieds right now.

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## mandolabra

okay, I've been racking my brain as to what we might do to collectively (and thus effectively?) influence Rono to get going. Claire Hunter says there are 3 outstanding complaints along the same vein-- mine will make 4. One has received his/ her mandolin; complaint satisfied. She says Rono will not return her calls but may respond to heavier pressure of a legal sort(this sounds like a slow process, how appropriate...) Besides this, it may be that Ron won't care about his reputation as a luthier because he's leaving the business. Does anyone know someone in Boulder that could make a physical visit and assess what's really going on over there? Half the pain is not knowing--

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## mandofiddle

For what its worth...

I live 15 minutes North of Boulder. I've known RonO for about 4 or 5 years now, since having him build my electric mandolin. This was before he was really known. About 3+ years ago, I traded my electric mandolin, an amp, an old computer, and a little cash back to RonO to have him build me an F5 mandolin. He told me it would be finished in 6 months or so... It took a year and a half. I'm sure it would have taken longer had I not been able to go and bug him on occasions. And through the entire extra year, I got the "It'll be done in a month" or "It'll be done in 3 weeks" story over and over again. I was at his shop a few months ago, and there were works in progress there. Now who those were going to, I have no idea. I really don't know what to tell you folks that are in the same boat that I've been in before. It sucks plain and simple... I'm in the same boat again as I'm waiting on him to build me an octave mandolin, which he has some of my cash for as a down payment. I also know that, upon talking to him last, that if I push or nudge him, I'm liable to never get it. Simply because he has everyone pushing and nudging him. He told me he even had someone come to his door and threaten him with physical violence. Sure I could take the legal route, but 95% chance I still wouldn't recover my money, and I'd only end up making an enemy of someone in the local music circle. Something I never do is purposefully make enemies. So, it looks like I'll be waiting for a while, as I'm the last person on the list, and then when I receive my mandolin I'll not do business with him again. Plain and simple, for me at least. I honestly don't think he's trying to jip people out of their money. But I do think he has horrible customer service and people skills, which he'll admit, and shouldn't have gotten this deep into a list without giving people a realistic expectation. Since I've dealt with him in the past, I knew to take his timeframe estimate with a grain of salt...

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## Tom C

He sounds like the typical bad contractor who get a down payment from customer A,
pays off some of his debts, then can't do the work for customer A without more resources. Thi$ ha$ to be the only rea$on.

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## Mandobar

mandofiddle,

he needs to contact everyone and ask them to be patient. right now he does not need to get wound up in a deep legal tangle. 

tom c,

ever notice that many a contractor has had several wives? (most ex-wives who wish them ill) speaking from experience even the wife gets the "two more weeks" blah blah..... but at least he had to come home.......no choices there, which is why his truck was registered to me......in many states contractors are required to post bonds and deposit funds in excrow. if things continue to deteriorate with instrument builders i can see the "escrow" trend moving over there too.

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## mandoaz

I think that is my biggest concern--is RonO still actually working on our mandos...Or has he skipped town with our money? When a business neglects even the most basic form of communication with customers, what else are we left to do but assume that money has been stolen? Mandofiddle--I'm glad to hear that you've actually been to the shop somewhat recently and saw works in progress. At least to the best of everyone's knowledge, it sounds like he's still working...maybe...

A phone call, Ron...Give your paying customers one lousy PHONE CALL...This is not that hard...Take care of your unfinished business and then all of us will go away, and we'll gladly never have to talk to each other ever again...

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## 250sc

In a previous post someone mentioned that he is getting out of the busness. If he declares bankrupcy do you loose your deposit?

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## mandofiddle

I just got off the phone with RonO. He called me to let me know the status of my mando, which he said he'd have done by Rockygrass. He said he's getting ready to send out a few mandos, and has a total of 9 left before his list is gone. I asked him to call me and let me know after he sends out the mandos, and to who they're going to so that I can post it here. So hopefully good news will be coming shortly for a few folks here...

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## mandoaz

Thanks for the efforts Dave...I really appreciate it...If only RonO had one tenth of your integrity/concern...

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## krishna

This is one of the more interesting threads on the site right now.I am sorry that this is being done to you guys. I'm wondering,how many Luthiers take the entire amount up front? The last custom that I ordered,I paid a third down,a third when half finished,and a third when it was done.If the 3 of you think you are having a hard time(not to deminish this) ,think what Ron must be going through right now, not even able to answer his phone.I can't make excuses for him. The last story I heard about this ended in a bankrupcy.I truly hope things work out for you three,and I'll pray for that Ron guy.

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## krishna

PS  Can you put yourself in his shoes after reading this thread? If it was me ,I think I'd just curl up and die.

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## mandoaz

Believe it or not, I finally took delivery of my RonO emando today...1 year and 2 months later, I'm relieved the whole ordeal is finally over and a resolution has been reached.

I still can't believe that law enforcement had to be involved--you'd think Ron would've just returned a simple phone call and let his customers know that he was still working but had fallen behind schedule: A little communication goes a long way...

My heart goes out to my fellow cafe brethren who are still waiting...

Dave--Thanks again for all of your efforts and concern...Next time I'm in the area, I'll be sure to check out Heartwood Hollow.

Mike

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## AlanN

Thank goodness that's over.

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## acumando

so.... how's the mando? ... what is worth the time and tsouris?

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## berkeleymando

Yes, I'd enjoy hearing a review of your new emando.

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## harmon

regarding deposits on a custom instrument and customer relations I would like to add that Jack Spira is building an octave mandolin for me and my experience has been very different. Jack asked for NO deposit, has contacted me with suggestions sent wood samples and photos all along. I wish that all people having an instrument made could deal with someone like Jack.

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## mandoaz

I'd like to keep the review brief:

Quality instrument? Yes
Quality buying experience? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Sorry for the extreme brevity, but this whole process has fatigued me to the point that I'd rather not speak of it anymore...I'm just glad it's finally over, and I'd like to get back to more important things like playing mandolin! However, if I can be of help to any others who are still waiting, let me know...

Mike

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## delsbrother

Could you at least tell us what kind of Rono you got? Each one on the classifieds is different, as is the one for sale at Mando Bros..

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## mandoaz

delsbrother--5 String "Working Man's Special" w/ 1 humbucker & a piezo

One last thing--If you still owe him money, have him ship the mando COD....That way he doesn't get your money until you receive the mandolin...and, from his perspective, if you don't have the dough, you can't take delivery of the mando--In other words, both parties are equally protected by shipping COD...That was the ONLY method of completion that I felt comfortable with after everything that had gone down...

Hope that helps...
Mike

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## cbrooks07

Hey everyone, I'm new to the mando discussion board. I just wanted to share my story for everyone else's knowledge. I too am waiting for a mandolin from Ron. I ordered mine January 10, 2003, and he said it would be done in 7 weeks. I have only spoken or had communication with him a couple of times since then. The most recent communication I had was 2 weeks ago, and its the same story everytiem, he says that it will be done and shipped out next week. So, I happily hung up thinking that I was going to get my great custom made mandolin in a week. Of course, that didn't happen. Unfortunately for me, I got an email from him about a month and a half ago saying that it was almost done, and to please send him the rest of my money so I did. So now he has no financial reason to work on it. I hope he does make it, because I know he can make great instruments and I have been looking forward to this instrument for a long time. 
I have not called any authorities and I don't think that I will for another month or so, because based on the stories I've heard, I dont think he is trying to rip me off. I am a little upset that another person posted that he ordered his mandolin later than I did, and received it before me.

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## frankseanez

Hey now, folks! #Add another name to the listing of buyers. #I've had a similar experience starting in March 2003. #I wish the best for all of us.

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## Steven Stone

I live in Boulder. On monday I ran into Ron O. at the UPS drop-off. He was shipping a mandolin. He said to me, as he has said to many folks before. I ship one mandolin each week. 

Ron is building mandos. He is a good builder, but, as he freely admits, not a great people person or customer support person. If you ordred a mando from him, it will come, but don't expect it to come quickly, and don't expect any amount of harrassment to speed it up.

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## mandofiddle

I think Steven nailed it on the head. From my experience with RonO, any amount of harrassment will likely slow it down...

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## frankseanez

It's good to hear that Ron is still getting his orders out, albeit slowly. #While the money is a consideration, of course, the mando is the goal. #I am very leery of trying to force either speed or response by legal means. #I don't think that Ron is a fraud, and many contractors of many sorts fall behind in their work schedules. #Having known other players who have ordered from other luthiers, I knew that Ron's original six month projection was way too ambitious. #However, being a March 2003 vintage order, I am looking forward to that day in the hopefully not to distant future when I will get to jam on my Homer (five string, double humbucker,inlaid with an image of Homer Simpson). #When I get it, I'll post to let you know.

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## cbrooks07

Still waiting for that mando, Ron... just thinking about how good i would be at playin' it right now if I had gotten it when you said i would!

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## michaell

I went to Mandolin Brothers last week (for the first time) with a friend, and there was the infamous Ron-O 5-string hanging on the wall. I thought that it was a very fine instrument-lovely to look at, great-sounding, easy to play, and with a C string that stayed in tune... Fortunately, my electric mandolin requirements are well-taken care of 
elsewhere.

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## horatio hellborn

Chalk me up as another Rono customer who hasn't heard from him in weeks. At least I know that it's not just me! It is pretty relieving to hear that he is still sending them out/building them. Other than actually recieving the mandolin, has noone heard from Ron since May?

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## mandroid

I'm going to send another letter , this time spend $5 for the return reciept, seems though a SASE required a tiny effort,even it was not expended from that end.
If that won't get any reply ,perhaps one may hope, Rocky Flats Nuke factory must have mutated a Godzilla Avenger Monster to come to my aid, ( though I've,absolutely, no resembelence to (the late)Fay Ray }

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## Old Man Knipes

I am totally new to this posting but my son has been waiting for a Rono mandolin since June 2003 when he paid his last $1,250. He has had no communication with Rono since last year. Does anyone know if Ron is still in business as of today. We have sent all the certified letters which came back "refused" and am now considering legal action. Having sent e-mails to Ron concerning this and getting no response at all is very, very frustrating. I have also left a message for the lady at the consumer division in Boulder but have not heard from her. If anyone has any news to post, I would greatly appreciate it. Ron told my son the mando would be done absolutely by the end of last August....2003!! We also have an e-mail from him that said this. He also talked about how beautiful the instrument was going to be and that he was putting two pickups on it because of the delay in getting it done....yeah, right! Anyway, I'm done venting and glad theat there is a place where others share in the same frustration. Thanks.......Old Man Knipes

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## Old Man Knipes

For all of you out there that are still waiting for a mandolin or you $$$ from Ron Oates.....I spoke this AM with Claire Hunter at the DA's office in Boulder. They have only received 4 (counting mine)complaints concerning Ron andsaid they would like to hear from anyone who has ordered and paid for a mandolin or any other instrument from Mr. Oates and had not received anything from him. Please contact her at : (303)441-1664. She sent me forms to fill out so that they can issue a subpoena. So far, two people have gotten their insturment from him after the DA's office did their deal. If you have been wronged by Ron Oates, it would be to all our advantage if you got in touch with the DA's office. Thanks....Old Man Knipes

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## Lee

Well Ron, if you're reading this, I am very sorry to hear about your plight and I hope you're able to make a complete recovery. I want to send a big Get Well!
When I first joined the Mandolin Cafe I quickly made good friends with a fellow we called Mikey2. He was deathly ill and used some of his last strength to send us his always cheerful thoughts and advice. He never gave up communicating with the people who were meaningful to him although each keystroke must have been a herculean effort.
Ron, if you're out there, please extend us just a fraction of the same effort and I'll venture to say that the good members of the cafe will stand by and support you.

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## mandroid

Boulder DA sent me complaint forms , worth a try,,, ronno ,,, karma is a bitch !

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## Lee

Check out the Ron Oates F model in the Classifieds. 
Looks wonderful, and the stereo output jack is an interesting idea. 
Anyone had any luck, or news about Ron?

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## frankseanez

I've reached my personal point of no return with Rono, and will be proceeding with the DA's Office and civil courts this week. I ordered my mando in March 2003 and have received repeated claims that it would be done, this week, in two weeks, since June 2004. Enough is enough.

Frank

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## mtnrose

Ron had a booth at Rocky Grass. He had a dandy 5 string OM there that I really liked. After reading these posts Im glad I didnt fall for his "better buy it now or itll be gone & Ill knock off x$ untill 3pm." sales pitch.

Becky

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## mandocaster

hmmm...

doesn't sound like a guy trying to get out of the business. Was this recently?

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## mtnrose

Fairly recent. July 25, 2004, Lyons, CO

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## JeffS

Anyone have any pictures of his mandolins? I've been curious as to what they looked like after reading all these posts over the past months.

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## Moose

Don't know the guy.. ; but, I wouldn't buy a used car from him. I've been following this thread intermittently(!?) for the past many months(!!!##) - Evidently he isn't afraid to "be seen"...!?? - pretty "brazen" don't ya' think! - I agree, most of his customers - those whom I've read about on this CAFE - have been more than fair with him. Enough!!## - Keep us posted guys... & Good Luck.

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## mandofiddle

Here's one of his electrics...
http://www.mandoweb.com/43-0135.jpg

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## frankseanez

Hey now, Comanders! Hoopy Halloween. In the ghost sighting area, I heard from Ron on Friday. He told me that he lost his shop and has moved from his old digs. He also said that he was going to mail out my mando next Friday, which made me check my calendar to see if it was actually April 1st, instead.

Frank

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## mandroid

So did he disclose what the current location and phone # is, the rabble is ready to gather with torches and pikes.
PM ME if you have data and want off post communication, instead.

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## frankseanez

Nawman. No new location or phone.

Frank

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## Moose

Don't sound too good to me - Good luck!! - we'll watch for updates - (AND, if your mando arrives).

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## frankseanez

I'll sure post if I get it. But don't hold your breath and DO get out to vote today!!!

Frank

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## thistle3585

Frank,
Do you think the reason that he is moving forward on it is because you filed paperwork with the DA? That seems to have been the case for a couple others.

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## frankseanez

Hey now! Friday came and went with no mando from Rono. I am moving forward with the DA's Office and will let you know how that progresses.

Frank

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## neal

Now, he said he was going to MAIL it on Friday, right?  Good luck though.

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## mandroid

Mr Oates could be president of the US , same ethical standards.

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## Moose

hee... hee... (remember., the PC "police" are lurking!!)

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## Old Man Knipes

Haven't been here in a while but I want to report that my son, (Langston), received his mandolin from Ron Oates just last week. He ordered it in January 2003. He has reported to me and to the DA in Boulder that the mandolin is not the way Ron promised it. That is to say Ron hurried with finishing the piece and there are problems with the pickups and the finish. Nonetheless, it was the DA who got this thing to it's conclusion, so far. To all of you still out there waiting on an instrument from Ron O: hang in there, get in touch with the Boulder DA's office and keep pushing for a resolution. It can happen! Good luck!

Oldmanknipes

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## Lee

Ron would probably enjoy some time-out at that infamous "undisclosed location".

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## frankseanez

I'm also working through the DA's Office. My order was placed in March 2003. I'm glad to hear that another mando was produced, albeit with birth defects. What is the extent of the deficiencies? Are they Bill Lawrence pickups? What is wrong with the finish? Did you order bindings? Did you order an inlay? Were these OK or are there problems?

Frank

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## cbrooks07

Hey everyone! 
Well, I posted on this site a few times, and I finally received my 5 string e-mando from Rono about 2 weeks ago. I ordered it January 2003. Throughout this long and arduous process, I remained relatively polite and understanding with Ron, despite multiple promises months and months ago that it would "be there in a week". I don't know if the DA's office is a good way to go. I had considered taking that route, but realized that Ron was not ripping anybody off. Everyone who had paid had either gotten their instrument, or was waiting for it. No one was convinced they had been conned. I came to the conclusion that he was honestly back-logged with orders, was a terrible customer service guy, and was probably not working on them with the diligence he should have been. I was worried that if I went the DA way, this might cause him to turn out a poorly made instrument. After all, the quality of the instrument he makes is totally up to him. I had already been waiting for a year and a half, so I decided to hang in there and keep it cool. From the sound of what happened to Old Man Knipes, my strategy may have been the best one to follow, except the optimal route, which is to ask Ron for the second payment cash on delivery of the instrument. Unfortunately I had already send all my money to Ron before I thought of doing that. After playing it for a week now, I can honestly say this instrument is INCREDIBLE. The tone is amazing, pickups are a great range of warm and mellow to bright and piercing depending on pickup selection. The mando's sustain is also ridiculous! Craftsmanship is perfect, no flaws, everything is as it should be or better. I had a custom inlay done -- a phoenix design. I dont know how he did it, but the design is exactly what I sent, and it looks beautiful. 
Wow, this is a long post, but I figure there are still some people out there who are interested. I am pleased that the whole saga has finally come to a close, without having to involve the law. I am extremely pleased with the instrument, however, I can say that if I had known it would take one and a half years, I would have definitely ordered from a different luthier. To those who are still waiting -- have patience. Ron will come through, without a doubt. He is not scamming anyone. Take my advice, you have already been waiting so long, it is better to wait another month or even two, than to get him angry and force him to produce a "defective" mandolin by going through the DA. Feel free to contact me with any questions about my experiences with Rono. cab@gwu.edu 
As Rono would say, "keep on pickin'!"

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## frankseanez

Dude. It wasn't a year and a half for you. It was 21 months. Do you know why you finally got your mando? Cause other folks are making it an issue that Ron can no longer ignore. I'm happy you got your mando, as I will when I get mine, ordered in March 2003. But don't delude yourself or others that this was a good or acceptable commercial experience. My patience now is with the DA's office. I ran out of patience with Ron months ago.

Frank

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## cbrooks07

I definitely don't think it was a good commercial experience, but then again, its not some kind of usual purchasing deal like going to Wal-Mart to buy a new TV. Of course he is running his business very very poorly. If he was making mandolins based on who was filing with the DA, you certainly would have gotten yours before I got mine. 

The advice I posted last to other Ron customers about waiting instead of going through the DA was because I was successful (granted after 21 months as you say), without doing that. And with such an expensive investment in an instrument whose quality is completely dependent on Ron's care and diligence, I would try and keep from pissing Ron off. Yes, i was pissed and frustrated and angry, but never really thought he wasn't going to deliver in the end. 

He didn't deliver my instrument because of the stink everyone has been making with the DA, cause if that was the case, why would he have delivered mine? Besides, he has made and delivered many many instruments to people who never took it to the DA. 
I'm sure you will get your awesome homer! (great idea by the way!!) I am sure we can both agree we won't make the mistake of buying again from Ron..... :-)

best of luck!
chris

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## frankseanez

Nawman! I tried to be mellow and not piss Ron off. It's been 21 months for me, since 2003. I had the same idea as you prior to about the 6th time I was lied to by Ron. If it takes 21 months or 22 months, he should just say so. I'd still be waiting patiently. It's the delays, and the lies, and the frustration generated by both of these that generate this reaction. The only reason he is responding now is that folks got sick of it and started lighting a fire underneath him through the Boulder DA's Office. I'm absolutely not buying into any posts which attempt to characterize Ron as a well-meaning luthier who should be granted a wide berth. My view is that my mando ought to be the most excellent custom job there ever was, based on the outrageous amount of time, delays and lies that I've had to endure. If that is the case, then maybe I'LL post a review here saying it was worth it too. But until that time, I've gotta wish all the rest of the defrauded customers the best of luck.

Frank

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## mandroid

frankseanez, as last sucessful contact
do you have a physical address that I can mail a signed for letter to,? My address is different , 3 years having lapsed, and I never get a reply to an email since my deposit check was cashed. address notification from my end may help.
 &gt;  &gt; 

PM would do in this case.

----------

HA HA HA YOU SUCKERS! 
No, I'm just trying to laugh on the outside because I'm crying on the inside. #*Sigh*. #Me too. #No returned phone calls, no returned emails, past promised date, etc. #I've only sent him half the dough, so I guess I may hear back from him someday. #I am SOOOO glad I found this thread. #I mean, What am I supposed to think? #I don't know if the guy's alive or dead, much less if he's actually working on my mandolin. #I seriously was thinking of heading to Boulder to try to find the guy. #So I'm glad that he treats everyone like poop, not just me, and I would like to send my heartfelt condolences out to my fellow sufferers. #And the address I last had was a PO Box, but I do have a number that I talked to Ron on in the recent past (maybe 2 1/2 months ago). #However, it has a computer voicemail greeting and picks up on the 2nd ring, so you're not likely to do anything but leave a message, which hasn't done me a whole heck of a lot of good. At the moment I'm feeling rather restrained, but I really wish I had found this thread before I ordered my axe from the guy. #I have no problem paying for and waiting for quality, but part of me feels like every time I pick up my mando (if it comes), I will feel acid reflux thinking about my ordeal with the guy. #I feel bad for anyone who is waiting for an instrument from him who hasn't found this thread. #Man. #I, too, will post here if I hear anything from Ron. #I'm an acoustic guy now, but playing jazz, and I may need to go get a Mandobird in the meantime. #If only I knew what the meantime was...

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## frankseanez

Sorry for taking so long, Mandroid. The last known address:

Ron Oates
Rono Instruments
4500 19th Street, Lot #411
Boulder, Colorado 80304

But this information is old. Unless you are worried about making Ron mad, I suggest that you contact the Boulder DA's office.

Frank Seanez

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## mandroid

News Flash! an Update: use flame supressor, boys, actually had Mr. Oates call me , tonight.
 So,yes, I have been missing a couple years of communication while in the queue.
Quite found wanting for any reasuring feedback, and allowing plenty of time to exercise my worry muscle, [with some influence from my vast, cavernous, self doubt reserves.] (Apply cathedral reverb setting) perhaps things for the Bari are reaching concusion.
says he's sorting thru 7 remaining items of special orders.
Stated his plan thereafter, shift to premade, stock inventory of as is product.
 ... the bird is still in the shrubbery, in the meanwhile...
 &gt;  &gt;

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## Lee

Interesting "thereafter plan"; an earlier post reported Ron was leaving the mando-building world once these obligations were completed. He told me the "Workingman's Special" was going to be the standard item for him too. The problem with "stock" is you need to build stock before receiving a penny in return.

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## Kekule

What made all of ya'll chose Ron Oates to make your electric mandolin? Is it because Michael Kang of string cheese plays one? Just curious. I wouldve gone with something like a Glaser.

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## Lee

I never heard heard of a Glaser and can't find anything about it on Google. Please do tell.

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## Scott Tichenor

Glaser

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## mrmando

Ricky Skaggs and Casey Driessen have both played Glasers. Photos at emando.com.

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## jmcgann

I played Casey's Glaser and it is a really great axe!

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## mandroid

The baritone 18" 5 string of Kang was my spark, conversation was 2 way before cash in hand, design was a jazzy style.
the turkey is still in the corn.

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## frankseanez

Yep, Kekule! As a longtime Cheeser, my interest in a Rono was ignited by hearing hours and hours of Michael Kang's shredding his Rono Dragon. But I relied on Rono's factual representations relative to the mando he would build for me in paying out the cash for a custom Rono 5 string. If I would have known how incredibly unreliable and untruthful he was, I would've double bagged it.

Frank

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## mandroid

Waiting for Rondot as revised from the original Beckett, Estragon says to Vladimir....

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## delsbrother

I want to party with Mandroid.

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## frankseanez

I'll just feel Lucky when I finally get .... a CARROT!

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## Brian Aldridge

Why don't you look into Old Town mandolins? They're built by Doug O'Dell who builds e- mandos and also builds really good F5s and guitars- I am soon taking delivery on the 3rd F5 I have had him build for me. He is in Lakewood Ohio near Cleveland. Here's a link to his website. NFI
http://www.oldtown-mandolins.com/

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## mandroid

Oldtown wouldn't build off the deposit in RonnO's bank account,though, will he? 

Usefull advise for the ones yet to cough up the deposit, though, If they want an 8 string..

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## frankseanez

Hey now! Yesterday, I finally got delivery of my Rono. I haven't gotten a chance to take it out and look it over real well, so later on that. Thank you, Claire Hunter!!!

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## frankseanez

I've had a couple of days to check out my Rono. I'm pleased with both the look and the sound. If only it hadn't taken so long and required the intervention of the DA's Office in order to actually receive the same, I'd be overjoyed. As it is, I'm merely relieved to have obtained an acceptable outcome.

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## frankseanez

Like I said last December, if it was the most outrageous custom job I'd make a post saying that it was worth it. Well, this is that post. The finish, the Homer Simpson inlay, the bindings, the dual Bill Lawrence humbucker, the balance and heft of the instrument, the thickness and feel of the neck, the curvature of the frets, the feel of the fingerboard, and of course, timbre and sustain of the sound, are all exquisite. Thank you, Rono!

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## berkeleymando

I'd like to see the 'Homer' inlay. Could you post a pic?

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## frankseanez

Doh! I've tried a number of times, but the file is too big. E-mail me privately and I'll try again!

Frank

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## Tom C

I want to see it also.

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## delsbrother

Mmmmm... Cheese.

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## Baron Collins-Hill

ooh, they have the internet on _computers_ now...

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## Don Grieser

Hey Frank,

Bring it out some Tuesday night. Not tonight--we're not getting together tonight. I want to see that thang.

Mandroid--there's one less partridge in the pear tree.

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## mrmando

Frank, send the photo to martin@stillion.com and I'll resize it for you.

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## eastcarterman

I have got to see this homer inlay, I cannot believe this guy is such a terrible person. I truly feel for each order left that has not been filled.

Peace, carter

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## Pete Braccio

Hi all,

I hope you all finally get your mandos. I've been reading this thread for a year. It's been like watching a slow motion car wreck. (Don't want to look, can't look away, and can't believe that it's still going on.)

Pete

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## frankseanez

I took Homer to the Coffeehouse last night to see some of his new friends, but just ended up playing a couple of fiddle tunes and leaving since there were no Summer Wages to be earned. Homer was disappointed, but I bought him a donut with sprinkles (Mmmmmm ... Sprinkles!) and he was OK with it real quick like. Origato, Mr. Mando. I'll send those pix along to you for resizing. I was going to take some more at a different size, but this might just be easier. It has been a slow mo bus wreck, more like a bus ride in Constantine than a bullet limbo in the Matrix. Whoa! Since I got a fine mando at the end of the ride, I'm more willing to look at the whole experience as a study in human nature, but I strongly caution folks to expect a two year wait, no matter what you're told about projected completion periods. Are there other folks in the seats behind me who are still waiting for Rondot? What's next? Check out the Rono website to see the new standard a five-string hollowbody single humbucker job with an F-hole, binding and mother of pearl trim and hooper inlay. Only $2500 in 2005 dollars. Cheap!! The sickest Stockholm Syndrome thang of all is not at their shows, but in the fact that I'm seriously contemplating getting back on the Rono bus, Gus! Mmmmm, the power of Cheese!

Frank:D   :Cool:

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## frankseanez

Zizwork?

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## frankseanez

Whaddyaknow? They DO have the internet on computers!

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## frankseanez

But you can only add one image at a time. DOH!

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## jmkatcher

That's an intensely cool instrument!

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## eastcarterman

That homer is priceless, a true one of a kind. #I really want a RonO now, but I dont know if I can put up with that guy. #What kind of amp are you using, is the sound everything that you thought it might be? #Do you highly recommend against ordering the new standard? #How should I start this process, it seems so shady to have to send a guy money at the beginning of a project that wont materialize for 2 years. #Was it truly worth the wait? Anyone have any very strong feelings, If I am being dumb just tell me people.

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## Christian McKee

Have you read this thread?!? There are plenty of quick, reputable, non-slapped-with-legal-action luthiers out there. Not to mention inlay artists, if that's the part that really trips your trigger. The good folks at www.breedloveguitars.com do lots of custom work, and it's *exceptional* as well as reliable (I have no personal interest there...) I'm not in the market these days, but I personally wouldn't even *consider* ordering from someone as slippery as Ron Oates seems to be. 

Christian

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## Moose

Yeah!.. - Welcome home Ron ; all is forgiven - caaa-caa happens'. hee.. hee...

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## Ted Eschliman

Yikes, I'll confess morbid curiosity myself, tracking the now 5 pages of development on this "Reality" show. (The only thing missing is pictures of some shirtless, tousel-haired confused drunk, face blurred by the camera, being cuffed and hauled away.)
Now the thought of someone going back to the scene of the accident, I'm hearing in the background a low string bass bowing the motif from the movie "Jaws." I want to get up and scream at the screen, "NO. NO!!! Don't go into the water!!!"

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## mrmando

I thought the tale was that Ron was going to cease accepting orders and go back to building boats or something.

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## frankseanez

It is an intensely cool instrument, thanks! I run it into a A/B switch (so that I can accomodate my electric fiddle, Zeta 5-string or Fender 4-string), into an Ernie Ball volume pedal, into a Digitech GX2 sound processor, and sometimes a Qtron, into a Fender Twin Amp.

If I was interested in obtaining a 5-string standard electric in two years, I'd consider getting it from Rono. But I sure wouldn't believe anything about a 6 month delivery of any Rono instrument. Like many artists, Rono really needs a business manager to handle his contracting and communications matters while he works solely on design and manufacturing.

Frank

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## delsbrother

Well, if:

a) you MUST have one NOW and
b) you can deal with the fact it's used (by a known emando player) and
c) it's still in stock and
d) you don't mind dealing with Mandolin Brothers, then

e) 

LINK - It's _only_ $1750.

A bird in the hand...


Darrell

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## frankseanez

Shucks! I'm cutting the check right now!

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## mandoaz

OK--I'll quit lurking and chime in on this thread that I began over a year ago...

First let me say this...Frank, I'm glad you got your mando...I'm glad Rono didn't ship you a lemon and I'm sure that you're relieved that the whole nightmare is over...

But I feel the need to refresh everyone's memory about the fact that this was literally a _nightmare_...Just click back to a couple of your (and my) very own posts a mere few months ago...Your/my frustration-turned-anger-turned-disgust is quite well documented and, I would argue, extremely well justified...

Somehow, throughout the ordeal, I always managed to treat Rono in a professional manner. I'd just like to note that this courtesy was not returned by any stretch of the imagination. Rono's attitude was not only unapologetic, but smacked of flippant arrogance and utter lack of concern...

Am I glad that my instrument displays quality craftsmanship? Yes...But there are many, many other luthiers out there that not only build high quality instruments, but also give their paying customers the respect they deserve...

But hey, if you want to pay good money to be insulted and lied to, by all means make that check out to Ron Oates...Frank, the notion of you (or anyone) giving more of your money to this dishonest and flagrantly unprofessional builder makes me want to vomit... :Frown:  

Mike

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## frankseanez

Touche, mon frere! #I've been plenty jacqued off at Rono throughout the last year, that is true. #I've got to thank you for spinning this thread, and to Board member, Don Grieser, for bringing it to my attention last year. #I continue to believe that the information which I received from you, and all the other mandos-of-war on the list, led me to the actions which ultimately led to my receipt of my Homer.

I assure you all that what you read here was only the tip of the iceberg. #I tried to keep my contacts with Rono personal, rather than professional, but through the last four months of the ordeal the professionals had to be brought to bear on the problem.

Likewise, I'm glad that your own Rono displays quality craftsmanship. #I've read reports of flawed instruments in this thread and will readily admit that if Homer had arrived with deficiencies that I would have gone all the way professional. #But at this point, to give the devil his due, I've got to say that I'm very glad to have finally received what I consider an exceptional instrument from same the luthier who has outfitted Michael Kang. #For those of you who are Friends of Cheesus, or who stray into the String Cheese Incident listserve, the subjective value of this aspect of the transaction to me will be no surprise.

With regards to the check, please be advised that it is in the mail, and should arrive in 2 weeks.  (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more.) But maybe I sent it to the wrong address. #I thought that No. 430135 was in the inventory of the Mandolin Brothers.

What I'm interested in at this point is why these Ronos are appearing in the secondary market. #Is it a matter of supply and demand, with mandowners taking advantage of the market to reap capital gains? #Or is it a matter of dissatisfaction with the instrument received, presumably after a similar experience to those so well documented in this thread? #Did they pitch their Workingmen's Special over the side and decide instead to Schwab the deck? #Did they trade up to the products of the other luthiers out there that build high quality instruments, in a quest for better sound or a little respect? Have you made your Rono walk the plank? #Is the appearance of No. 430135 in the Mandolin Brothers inventory a result of some dissatisfaction with the double dual humbuckers, the lie of the strap against those devilishly curved shoulders, the straightness of the neck, or some other perceived flaw? While I will cop to my own full measure of flippancy and arrogance, I am concerned, and I really would like to know!

By the way, Mike, I'm sorry to have made you vomit, even if it was just a little bit. #Your chunks are well documented, and beyond a reasonable doubt, extremely well justified.

Frank

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## delsbrother

> With regards to the check, please be advised that it is in the mail, and should arrive in 2 weeks.  (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more.) But maybe I sent it to the wrong address. I thought that No. 430135 was in the inventory of the Mandolin Brothers.


Uh, don't know what you're trying to say there, Frank. Of course it's at Mando Bros (at least it was the last time they updated their site). That's why I posted the link. 

As to the Mike Orlando thing, I think we covered that on this board when the mando first popped up for sale, but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC he stopped playing entirely..

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## thistle3585

Frank,
Does the pickup get in the way? It seems to be located right at the sweet spot.

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## mrmando

> As to the Mike Orlando thing, I think we covered that on this board when the mando first popped up for sale, but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC he stopped playing entirely..


Methinks you have him confused with Matt Mundy.

Mike Orlando has gone through a LOT of mandolins; I think he ended up with a Loar. He's taking a break from Cast Iron Filter and doing a solo project in Nashville.

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## delsbrother

Oops. Damn memory.

Dial "M" for "Mandolin"

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## frankseanez

Sorry for being so obtuse, dels (and my) brother. What I meant is that I was kidding about sending anybody a check for a second Rono in this same month, but that the money wouldn't go to Rono in any case, since it was in the Mandolin Brothers inventory. Presumably, Mike Orlando either sold it or consigned in to Mandolin Brothers, so Rono would not get any further direct economic benefit from the sale of No. 430135. The "check's in the mail" and "2 weeks" references were relative to the repeated failure of Rono to deliver the mando, in spite of repeated claims that it was coming "in 2 weeks." The "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more" is a reference to a Monty Python skit, but that's something completely different.

I am interested in the reason for Mike Orlando's jettisoning of that instrument from his collection. I know a number of folks who are collectors, buying and selling instruments like most other people change their socks, but is that the reason for the sale here? A Loar is not the same kind of socks as an electric mando. In fact, it might be more like a pair of leggings, or even lederhosen. I'll look up the Matt Mundy posts to check out why he got rid of his Rono. Thanks for the direction!

I haven't found the placement of the pickup on Homer to be a hindrance. In those instances wherein I've hit the face of the pickup, I haven't even heard a click out of the amp. I tend to stay pretty close to the strings with the pick and move up or down depending on the sound I'm trying to obtain, so I rarely encounter the pickup with any degree of force, unless I'm playing Won't Get Fooled Again, or other Who material and my windmill gets out of hand.

Frank:O

----------

In case anyone is out there who gets a wild hair and decides to order a Rono, I'd just like to proffer the fact that Rono is still selling his brand of snake oil to his customers. #
 # # His promised date to me was Christmas. #He called me last week. #Was he calling me to tell me my mando was ready? #NO, no no! #He was calling to ask if I could send him the rest of the money I owed (after putting half up for my deposit when I ordered the thing). #He claimed that he was moving to a new shop and if I got the money to him to help him facilitate this move, he was sure to have my instrument ready within a month. #
 # # It's hard to figure what to do with him- again, if he just told me the bloody thing would take 18 months I would still be waiting patiently. #Instead, he has now missed 3 promised delivery dates. #I am sure that I'll get a great axe out of this in the end, but I still feel taken hostage in the sense that I don't want to piss him off miserably and either compromise the integrity of my mando or at least make him take even longer. #So, potential Rono buyers, you should still beware! #I will report back upon reception of instrument, which should be by the end of May. #Keep your fingers crossed for me, if you would.

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## mandofiddle

Anybody hear from RonO lately? Any new news?

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## wmr

I have e-mailed Rono several times and never got a response. This is all within the last 2 months or so.

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## wmr

I just read some to the previous posts. I bought the old Mike Orlando Rono. It is a little beat up thats why I got it cheap. It plays amazingly wonderful. It has a big ding on the top behind the bridge near the edge where the strap pin is located. Also a nick on the top of the neck at the 12 fret. Looks like someone used a razor knife on it. Other than that it looks good. I love the dual humbuckers with the phase in&#92;out for both. Gives me lots of sounds. If anyone wants more info. E-mail me.

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## Kirby161

Ive worked in politics for a while and I know the DA works but that wont get ron to improve his service. It will make him angry and unlikely to want to continue with such customers.

If you want to have the quality mandolins that you crave and have them in a timely manner, start a petition or a form letter. It is vey effective for somebody to see the number of people that are irritated or want a change.

It works in politics, it might work in bussiness.

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## Moose

I mean no "harm/bad feelings" ; but... surely-to-goodness there are OTHERS(builders) out there who are building QUALITY instruments(i.e. mandolins...etc.) - I've been seeing/lurking this Ron Oates" thing for 12-18!??# months now! - Based on all I've read here..., why would anyone order/buy from this character..!!## - Are his instruments THAT GOOD! - Are they worth ulcers..., tempers..., lost deposits$$ - Thank's for letting me "vent" = just my .02 - Moose.

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## frankseanez

I don't claim to know whether RonO will be doing anything other than making mandos and consigning them to music stores in the Boulder area. My resolution of this matter is a matter of record in this thread. But having played my RonO since around Valentine's Day 2005, I've gotta say once again that it is BY FAR the best electric mandolin that I've ever played. The sustain, the tone, the workmanship, it's all there!

Frank

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## wmr

I must agree with Frank. My Rono is so hard to put down. It is the best electric mandolin I have ever played. (Have not played a schwab yet) I also have a Mann 5 string which I do love and is a fantastic instrument and for the price cannot be beat. I got my rono used from the classifieds here so I did not have to deal with Ron Oates and his fine customer service.

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## Kirby161

i gotta know, how does the manndolin compare with the rono? the schwab?

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## wmr

Kirby,

The Rono and the Mann both great 5 string electrics. Although they are very different. First my Rono has a fixed bridge with Graphite saddles like a strat or tele. THe Mann has a movable bridge and ebony tailpiece.
THe Rono play's more like a guitar due to the wide string spacing. Bends are eaiser but tremelo picking acroos 2 or more strings is more difficult. My Mann is super easy for tremelo picking but with the smaller string spacing bends are harder due to the fact the you are basically bending 2 strings to get to a 1-2 step bend.

My Mann has a cool rails singlespace humbucker init with a push pull on the tone knob for series/paraell switch. The Rono has 2 bill lawarence humbuckers in it with each having a phase switch for both pickups. I get more sounds with my rono due to the extra pickup. I really have a hard time putting down the rono. It is my favorite instrument period. Basically I use the Rono when i want to rip like a guitar and I use the mann when I am tring to still get that traditional mandolin sound with the 5 string.

Sorry this was so long.

WMR

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## mandroid

Actually got 2 phone calls from Ron, now another  further revised delivery promised date has passed, Talk IS cheap. as is well known...

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## Tom C

But at least he called you instead of you having to chase him around. When I ordered a custom mando, I did not order it to have for a specific event so if it was 1 month or 6 months late, I could have dealt with it. As long as the builder maintains contact. Just like if I loan a friend money, I do not expect to have to ask them for it.

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## mandroid

I'm talking several years, by now, 3 at least.

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## Moose

Outta' be a good one - when/if you EVER get it. I must admit I could/would not take the aggrevation - Good luck & keep us "posted".

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## Don Grieser

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a Rono instrument booth at RockyGrass. I didn't go in--don't know if he was actually there or not. There were instruments hanging up in there, though.

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## frankseanez

Golly! If one could be picked off the rack, that would be a real bonus!!

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## mangolin

thank you, thank you, thank you to the brave souls who started this thread, without which I would have traveled to Colorado and would now be a fugitive, if you catch my drift. #I haven't posted here, and I'm posting anonymously, because I still hope that somehow Ron will remember me and make my instrument, and I guess I'm afraid that he'll look here and see my name and get resentful and never finish it. #I am over 15 months past delivery date (NOT order date, delivery date) and while some delay is understandable, I could have planted my mandolin in the back yard and had a baby mandolin tree with some ripe ones ready to pick by now, so I'm getting a bit sore. #Like everyone else, I ordered before I saw this thread, and Ron was courteous and warm and such before he had my money. #So, if there are a few other people out there in Rono limbo, I'd be willing to go to the DA, as others have done, in a group. #That way Ron won't have just one bad apple he can focus his spite on, and we might get some instruments before we're pushing up daisies.

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## mandroid

Sent to the last known address, registered mail was returned undelivered.
guess I get to send it to go in the Boulder D.A.s folder.

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## Moose

FYI: I thought I saw where Chas. Johnson(Mandolin World Hqtrs.) has a RONO for sale in CAFE classified. (NO "reflection" on Charles - he's OK in my book - AND!?, it could be a great mando!?) - Just thought I'd mention this info. Moose.

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## mangolin

yeah, i guess he's moved a couple of times. #i do have a phone number, but he doesn't answer his phone, so that may not be much help. #i'd like to ask any of the other rono owners out there if they feel like they got bum mandos after going through the DA's office. #old man knipes mentioned problems, and i'm wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

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## frankseanez

My satisfaction with Homer is a matter of record on this thread. I'm still satisfied.

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## Moose

Hey! - THAT'S what matters! - If, in fact it is a "keeper"..,it's YOUR investment, to you & your ears it's "pleasing", who's to throw the stones!? - Would you "order" another mando from him...!?? - If I have/buy/bought a mando (or other instrument) that I - personaly - am pleased with but the builder was proven/shown to be "shady", a crook(illegal "person.., etc.) - or "other", I probably would have "second thoughts re: "ordering/buying from him AGAIN! - the/my mandolin: love it!(a very subjective opinion ; but it should be...) - The business practices/habits of the luthier in question..? Who cares! Enjoy your mandolin - and the music you create with it. PHEW!! - OK, I'm outta' here.. Moose.

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## mangolin

Thanks Frank. The old man knipes thing still gives me the heebie-jeebies, but based on the amount and the quality of contact I've had with Ron, I'm sort of afraid that if I don't go legal on him that I will never ever hear from him ever again. He has not ever initiated any contact with me. Grumble, grumble.

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## Kid Charlemagne

> Originally Posted by  (delsbrother @ Feb. 24 2005, 16:01)
> 
> As to the Mike Orlando thing, I think we covered that on this board when the mando first popped up for sale, but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC he stopped playing entirely..
> 
> 
> Methinks you have him confused with Matt Mundy.
> 
> Mike Orlando has gone through a LOT of mandolins; I think he ended up with a Loar. He's taking a break from Cast Iron Filter and doing a solo project in Nashville.


He's got a Montoleone Grand Artist, but no Loar. At least, not that I'm aware.

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## frankseanez

Oh, and by the way, Homer can play a mean Pennsylvania Polka (aka The Old School Steeler Fight Song)!

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## mandodave5

mangolin,
  I currently have a file open (ie complaint) with Claire Hunter at the Boulder County DA's office. I'm 13 months past due

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## mangolin

thanks mandodave-
how long ago did you file? #has filing had any impact at all? #have you heard from ron, or has claire hunter said she heard from him? #did she mention to you what the consequences for ron were if he just ignored her? #i think if i decided to file i might just have a lawyer do it for me, just to add some teeth to the thing.

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## Moose

But..., I understand he builds a great mandolin! -

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## mangolin

Thanks moose. #I'll report on that when i get one, if i haven't got arthritis by then. #if i am too old to play it, i guess i'll just post it in the classifieds. #if his instruments really are as good as rumored to be, i should be able to get a good price for a ron oates mando without the usual half decade in delivery time.

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## Moose

Jus' josh'n ya' mangolin ; I really hope you get your mando quick-like AND it's a "keeper" . It just amazes me that what with all the "problems" with RONO, folks still order..., wait.., seek legal recourse..., etc. As I stated in a long-ago post here, I have no doubt that there are OTHER luthiers building just-as-good OR perhaps better instruments than RONO..., with better "delivery-time". I - seriously - would like to know how you make out w. Ron and his mandolins. I see that Chas. Johnson(MandoWorldHqters) has a RONO for sale - AND it ain't goi'n CHEAP - AND Charles knows his mandos! - Thanks for posting. Moose.

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## mangolin

no worries, moose. #i agree completely that if i had seen this thread before i ordered, i wouldn't have ordered from ron. #i'm sure there are a lot of builders who are just as good technically and an awful lot better personalitywise. #i'm just glad i saw it when i did or else i'd have gone insane by now. #i'm not sure if people are still ordering from him- my belief is that they are, because it seems that ron's m.o. is to schmooze money out of people and wait as long as possible before he has to do any work for that money. #all i can hope is that new buyers have found this thread and either passed on rono or gone into this knowing what to expect- ulcers. #full disclosure and ratings as soon as i get my mando- i promise. and thanks for the good karma.

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## Lee

I wish ya luck too.
I'm amazed no one's actually tracked the man down physically, and seen his workshop. The guy can't be making a living doing this. What's up with him?

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## mandodave5

Manjolin,
  I filed with the Boulder County DA in September after Rono stopped returning and/or acknowledging my calls. As per my last conversation with him, his landlord had "sold his building" and he was having to move. He seemed really pissed off that I was calling (bad timing understandablly), but I his customer...a fact that seems to allude him. Since Rono's "forced" relocation in September/October, there has been no correspondence and it was at that point that I summoned Claire Hunter. Rono is gone...for all intents and purposes. The post office has no forwarding address and all subpoenas from Claire Hunter are undelivered, E-mails aren't being returned and his phone (which is useless anyhow)is always answered by the machine. Claire says he is now working a full-time job and living in a trailer park across the street from her office...(at least I think she said it was across the street). NOt that there is anything wrong with a trailer park , but it is painting a picture of the person to whom I entrusted with over $2000 at this point. I wish I had seen this thread before hand...but what can I do.

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## Lee

Post removed by moderator

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## wmr

Posted removed by moderator

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## Scott Tichenor

I've removed the previous two posts and will remind everyone that any suggestion that involves "showing up" at someone's residence to resolve a dispute is against the posting guidelines of this community. Specifically:

· Any threat or suggestion of physical violence in a disagreement is grounds for immediate suspension of membership.

These comments may have been made in jest, but this guideline still applies. No one's posting privileges are being removed here but I think the line of what is appropriate was crossed.

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## delsbrother

So... What's the story with this one?

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## Moose

Wellll, allow me to say THIS about THAT! - discounting the "flak" re: Ron O..., it IS a good "looker"(interesting "color" ; nice inlay - 'least so in the pic!!) I suggest : CALL/ TALK with Chas. Johnson @ MWQ's ; I have had many "dealings" with Charles - as buyer/seller/swapper!! - Charles is a "straight-up" person/dealer AND he KNOWS mandolins! - It MAY be worth every penny asked(i.e tone, workmanship...etc.) BUT..., if you would need to contact Mssr. OATES for workmanship "correction", background history.., a need(ed) repair(s)....etc.. now THAT(!) may prove difficult!?# - based on RONO's "track record". BUTTT, if it's built as it should be -in the beginning - there ARE other excellent, reputable and qualified luthiers around that could/would ($$$$) repair any serious "problems" - I - personaly - WOULD buy THAT mando - at a "best price" from Charles(but my MAS is in temporary remission!#). If Charles say's it's a GOOD mando, discounting RONO's "customer relation" quirks - GO for it. Hope this helps - Keep us posted on your decision(s) - Moose.

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## Lee

Yep, that one's a looker for sure. The close-ups really show off some consistent fret dressings. 
He's truly a mystery.

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## jefflester

"Ron Oats is a small builder out of Colorado that has successfully eluded the bluegrass police." #

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## Moose

He's also eluded several others - name-ly costomers who give him....MONEY-FOR-MANDO! -

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## mandodave5

To those interested, I just recieved an E-mail from Claire Hunter at the Boulder County DA's Office. She confirms that he is "gone" and that she will let me know as soon as he resurfaces. The letter stated that his landlord has not recieved any rent payments from him, his house/trailer is empty (though furnished) and his mailing address does not "accept" the mail sent there. I don't know, I'm fed up and nearly out of options. I can't afford a REAL lawyer right now, and all other avenues are dead ends. Rono should be sentenced to an internment camp that would operate like Santa's workshot. Quota, quota, quota...you dick.

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## manjitsu

How (or why) does an individual who is supposedly "gone" and no longer building manage to keep a website up advertising his services?

The sad fact is that he is not by any means gone, and he remains to this day perfectly willing to take money from anyone who is unfortunate enough to send it his way, with the promise of a mandolin to follow. 

It's really a bummer to read all of these unfortunate experiences... I think the best thing to come of this thread is that when one does a google search on "Ron Oates mandolins", this thread surfaces very quickly.

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## wmr

I would suggest everyone who has been ripped off or is being ignored by Mr Oates get together and pitch in to hire a private investigator and find out where he is and then give the information to the DA and see where it goes. Doubtful they would do anything anyway. However since you either mailed him a check and or paypal or some kind of credit card transaction this possibly makes this a federal fraud case. Unless you all live in CO. I had posted previously (Removed by the admin) that someone should pay him a visit. I was not suggesting any kind of violent confrontation or actions and I agree you should let the law do its job and not take matters into your own hands. I would like to apologize to Scott T for my previous post, since it did cause a problem. I love this site and do not want to be removed from being able to post.

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## mandodave5

WMR,
 I think that is a good idea. All Rono customers involved should pull funds to hire someone to get this thing taken care of. We can start a union...maybe the National Coalition of Pissed-Off Rono Customers (NCPORC). Do some picketing outside of his trailer home...it could be an interesting event. Seriously though, I think those of us who have percievably been taken advantage of should group together to get some kind of closure from this frustrating situation. I JUST WANT ME MANDO!

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## berkeleymando

I'm shocked that this thread still persists! Tragic.

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## Ted Eschliman

Just a polite reminder that Scott has made it very clear that even the _suggestion_, whether in jest or not, of gathering and physically showing up at somebody's place risks cross-litigation and threatens the existence of the Discussion Board.

We can sympathize with the animosity and ill will, but let's not make this dreadful situation even worse.

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## mangolin

Here's the real deal- It's mangolin, AKA Karl Mueller of San Francisco, CA. #I actually never heard String Cheese until after I ordered this instrument- I talked to a number of makers about baritone instruments, octave instruments, etc., and decided that Ron was the best bet. #Also, he promised the instrument the second quickest. #Ha ha. #Anyway, I found Rono's address- I'm too nice to put his contact info up here, but Claire Hunter at the DA's office has it as well. #I've taken some of the personal info out of here, but here is the cover letter and blow by blow account that I am filing with the 20th district court in Boulder tomorrow. #I'm putting this up because I'm not angry anymore, just in a state of disbelief that Ron has managed to keep treating his customers in this fashion, and it needs to stop. #


This letter is to express my intent to file a lawsuit against Ron Oates of Boulder, Colorado. #The attached excel spreadsheet lists the particulars of my relationship with Mr. Oates and the dates on which certain transactions occurred. #My telephone company did not have access to some of the monthly bills on which interaction occurred, but the third column on the spreadsheet lists those dates for which I have enclosed verification of telephone contact. #In addition, my banking company has supplied verification of the dates when I sent Mr. Oates checks and the dates on which he cashed those checks. #

My intent is to pursue recovery of the money I sent Mr. Oates, plus interest compounded at 6% per annum, as well as any money I have to spend on legal fees and (if necessary) travel to Boulder to appear in court. #

Mr. Oates promised me when I ordered the instrument in September of 2004 that it would be completed by Christmas of that year. #I am not upset by the temporal delay, but by Mr. Oates utter lack of effort to communicate his status and the status of my instrument. #On the times that I have had brief contact with him, he has been arrogant and unapologetic for having now taken over 19 months to complete a job he promised me would take 2 months. #

Since part of my income is performing, I have had to purchase a replacement instrument to continue to pursue my livelihood, so my first choice would be to have Mr. Oates simply compensate me monetarily. #I am anxious as to the quality of an instrument Mr. Oates will produce if he does so under legal duress. # # 

My recent contact with Claire Hunter, the Boulder County DA, has been upsetting. #She explained that she now has 4 people who have filed similar complaints with her, but she is unable to locate Mr. Oates to deliver these complaints and mail delivered to his previously known address has been returned as undeliverable. #I have no choice at this point but to believe that Ron Oates does not have any intention of completing my instrument and has stolen my money. #As I recently was able to find an address for Mr. Oates, I have given this information to Claire Hunter and am now going forward with my suit, as the Sheriffs Office will now know where to find Mr. Oates to serve him his papers. #If you need any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me. #


DATE 	 ACTION
9/?/2004 I contacted Ron Oates in Bolder, CO. and left him a message about making me a custom mandolin.

9/?/2004 Ron Oates called me and I spoke with him about the particular appointments and specifications of the instrument. #We entered into a verbal contract whereby he would build me a mandolin for the price of $3000 which would be done by Christmas. #Half of the agreed upon price of $3000 would be paid up front and the other half would be payable upon delivery. #

10/4/2004 Ron Oates called me and said that he needed the money as soon as possible to buy parts for my mandolin. #I express mailed him a check for $1500.

10/12/2004 Ron Oates cashed my check.

10/?/2004 I called Ron Oates to discuss the particular custom appointments for my mandolin and left a message on his answering machine.

12/?/2004 I called Ron Oates and explained that I was upset at his complete lack of communication since he cashed my check, and told him that if he was unable to fulfill our contract, he should return the $1500 I sent him. #

12/?/2004 I found a discussion board at Mandolincafe.com, in which several people discussed having similar problems with Ron Oates, to the point where they had contacted the Boulder County DA to resolve their situation. #One poster mentioned that after he had gone this legal route, Ron Oates sent him an inferior instrument.

12/?/2004 Not wanting to make Ron angry, I sent him an email explaining that I was not trying to pressure him or rush his work, but I would appreciate it if he would contact me to discuss the status of my instrument. #

12/27/2004 Ron Oates called me and told me that he would have my mandolin completed by January 31, 2005.

2/24/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

4/3/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

4/10/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

4/24/2005 I called Ron Oates and got a busy signal. #I called back and got Ron Oates live. #He told me that my mandolin was almost complete, but he needed me to send him half of the remaining balance so he could set up a spray booth and complete the instrument, which would be complete within one month of his receipt of the money.

4/25/2005 I mailed Ron Oates a check for $750, and left him a message that the money was on the way.

5/2/2005 Ron Oates cashed my check.

5/12/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding receipt of the check I sent him.

6/13/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

6/24/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

6/29/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

7/2/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

7/9/2005 I called Ron Oates and left a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

9/5/2005 I called Ron Oates, who answered. #He explained that he was finally up and running after a break and would have my mandolin finished by the end of September.

11/6/2005 I called Ron Oates and left him a message that I had a big performance at New Year's and wanted to know if my instrument would be ready or if I needed to find another one to use for this performance.

11/13/2005 I called Ron Oates and left him a message assuring him that it would be ok if my instrument would not be done by my concert date, but that I just wanted to know for sure or not if I needed to find a replacement instrument, and again asked him to contact me.

11/15/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/16/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/17/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/18/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/19/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/21/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/22/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/23/2005 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show.

11/24/2005 I called Ron Oates regarding the status of my instrument, as I was concerned about my upcoming show. #I got a busy signal, so figuring that he was home, I tried to call back three times. #The fourth time his machine answered, and I again left him a message asking him to contact me regarding the status of my instrument.

11/25/2005 I called Ron Oates and again received a busy signal. #I called back and received another busy signal. #On my third attempt Ron Oates answered the phone. #He was angry and told me I was pestering him. #He told me that when someone pesters him it makes him want to stop working and go skiing for a week. #I explained that I needed to know whether my instrument would be ready for NewYear's Eve or if I needed to find another one. #He laughed and said, "You think you can find another Ron Oates Mandolin?" #I said that I just needed an instrument to play the gig. #He asked me when I needed it by. #I told him within 2 weeks, so I could get a feel for it before the performance. #He told me he could get it done by then and said he would call me when he was ready to ship it. #

11/26/2005 Not wanting to seem combatitive, I left Ron a message explaining that I was excited about the mandolin and looked forward to playing it and wasn't angry, just concerned with trying to get everything in line for the show.

2/26/2006 I left Ron Oates a message asking him to please contact me regarding the status of my instrument. 

3/8/2006 I left Ron Oates a message explaining that I could send him the rest of the money if that would help, but that I needed his address.

3/9/2006 Ron Oates left me a message, saying that lately he obviously hadn't been "too into making instruments," but that he was now "more into it," and was back in business.

3/8/2006 I called Claire Hunter at the Boulder County D.A.'s office and appraised her of the situation. #She told me that she had 3 other people in the same situation, but that she was unable to take any action against Ron Oates, because she was unable to locate him. #

3/12/2006 I called Ron Oates and asked him to contact me so we could discuss how to move forward. 

3/16/2006 Claire Hunter called me and informed me that she had located Ron Oates and was going to send him a letter explaining that if he did not contact all of his overdue clients by Friday, March 24, she was going to advise them to take him to small claims court.

3/26/2006 I prepared my papers to sue Ron Oates and posted them in hopes of alerting any of my mandolin swinging brethren and sistren against making the same mistake. #I'll keep y'all posted.
Peace, Karl

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## Jason Kessler

What a shame. I keep reading this thread assuming that I'll eventually come upon a message that explains that there was a miscommunication, that the writer had indeed received the contracted-for instrument, and that he/she loves it. Happily, this is an isolated story, and all of the other small manufacturers are people of their word.

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## Scott Tichenor

Karl, thanks for the detailed information. This is one of the longest and most troubling stories. I removed all of the contact information I had in the builder database as it probably wasn't good anyway, and removed any links to his site in the Eye Candy section some time back. 

I would encourage those of you with pending orders to communicate collectively amongst yourselves and find a solution using the legal system. Appears the D.A.'s office is listening so that's a real positive step.

This is also a reminder that we should all pay close attention to our communications in any business dealing--not just with builders, but also in buying and selling instruments ourselves--and keep detailed records including dates and what transpired and what the specific agreemnets were. You may rarely need this information, but when you do, you'll certainly be glad you have it.

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## mangolin

Thanks Scott. I think that taking him off the list is probably the right thing to do. 

And, like others have mentioned when they've posted, I'm not a vindictive or angry person. The people concerned here are mandolin players- folkies, grassers, jazzheads- it's not like he's not delivering contraband to convicted felons with guns and chips on their shoulders to begin with- we're probably all pretty mellow people who would have been glad to come to some sort of compromise. What a huge bummer, for a number of reasons. 

I've talked to a lawyer and he said that lawyers weren't necessary in small claims court, when the facts of the case were generally a he said/she said sort of thing, and legalese was generally not the issue. 

I'm glad to be the guinea pig and let everyone know how this turns out. If it turns out well and is relatively painless, I'll let you know where to eat dinner when you get to Boulder for your day in court.

Karl

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## mrmando

If steaks and game are your thing, try Red Lion Inn.

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## Steven Stone

I live just down the road from the Red Lion Inn. Not in the running as my favorite. Best thing about it is the drive. 

Try Dolans, Full Moon Grill, The Sunflower Cafe, The Mediteranian, or The Boulder Cork. All are fine places for a victory dinner.

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## Moose

....but where's Ron Oates!?? -

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## Jason Kessler

Only a Moose, or maybe a Hoss, would bring up the subject of Oates when we're talking about putting on the feedbag...

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## johnrhaupert

So, does anybody know of any builders who are just as good as or better than rono at building 5-string electrics?

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## Ted Eschliman

Earnest Instruments

Jonathan Mann

From what I understand mortgage payments on their trailers are current...
But seriously Joel and Jon are the best! Great craftsmen and terrific to work with. Personal experience, they do what they say they will do.

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## mandofiddle

Does anybody know about these instruments?

http://www.sjryder.com/

They sure look pretty hot and tempting. Especially that EM-55...

http://www.sjryder.com/EM-54.htm

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## johnrhaupert

I really prefer the way that rono's look (well not the standard, but the one that Kang currently plays and the Dragon). Are luthiers like this willing to model after other luthier's designs?

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## delsbrother

> I really prefer the way that rono's look (well not the standard, but the one that Kang currently plays and the Dragon). Are luthiers like this willing to model after other luthier's designs?


What, and risk prosecution??

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## johnrhaupert

Well Ibanez and other guitar companies always rip off strat and les paul designs.

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## Ted Eschliman

Darrell, your subtle humor never fails to slay me...
But you forget, some prison facilities include an extensive law library. Perhaps the subject of the thread _could_ sue from behind bars, all that time on his hands. Beats making license plates, and they're not likely to allow any mandolin-making tools.

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## jmcgann

Two big thumbs up for the work of Earnest Instruments and SJRyder- I can vouch for both of these excellent builders from the State O' Maine in terms of quality and reliability; they are also great human beings and two people that I consider to be friends. Please tell them I said hello if you contact either of them!

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## sam b

There's Michael Stevens. His mandolins are great. Paul Glasse plays one (it's not called the Paul Glasse Model for nuthin'). I think Don Stiernberg, Tom Rozum and Barry Mitterhoff also own them. Stevens has quite a history in the electric guitar biz also.

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## wmr

Let us not forget that Rono does build a great electric 5 string mando even though his business dealings maybe shady.
I love my Rono!!!!

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## mangolin

wmr, you know as well as I, there is another place on this website where you can say NICE things about Mr. Oates. #Never once have i disputed his luthiership(?) THIS thread is regarding his lack of customer service. #

After I posted on here I actually called him (a week ago) and said that I didn't want to go legal on him, but he had been inattentive, unprofessional and irresponsible and I was tired of it, so he had a week to refund my money. #He called me back at 6:30am (a time that I refer to as "still nighttime") the next day and said he'd call me that evening. #That was 8 days ago. #Nothing since. #And, y'all may be surprised, I have not received a check in the mail from him. #So, today, my entire package went in the mail. #Unfortunately, however, I am unable to sue for travel money, so the Boulder County Clerk just asked me to add a note to my papers saying that I wanted to attend via telephone. #Therefore, I will not be able to sample any of Boulder's finest culinary delights on Mr. Oates' tab. #So I will have to stick to eating what all San Franciscans enjoy... burritos. #This website is an awesome place to look for a burrito in the bay area. I wish it was my idea.
http://www.burritoeater.com/
Further details as events warrant.
Karl

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## Jason Kessler

Wishing you the best of luck, Karl.

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## wmr

Karl,

I am with you 110 percent. I was just responding to the posts after for other builders. I was looking to have Rono build me a new 5 string but since I have read this thread I am looking for a used one. Doubt I'll ever get that lucky again. Good Luck Mon Frere!!!!

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## mangolin

Jason, wmr, thanks. Appreciate it. And you're probably right, wmr, I'm sure he builds a great instrument. But even if he built on a molecule-by-molecule basis, he should have been done with it by now. The biggest bummer is that I only have an acoustic mandolin and an electric guitar, so if I wanted to pracice to learn the position of notes or scale fingerings I've had to take the lowest string off my electric and capo it at the 6th fret to simulate the scale length, etc. But now it seems that may not pan out. I have tendonitis and relatively small hands, which was my whole reason for looking for an alternative to the larger scale of a guitar. Maybe I'll just grow a mullet and get one of those synthesizer-thingy-that-wants-to-be-shaped-like-a-guitar instruments from the '80's. I heard retro is in.
Karl

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## mrmando

We need a "Givens Legacy"-type situation here: Rono sells the rights to his designs, etc. to someone who can produce the instruments on a consistent basis. Maybe you should've sued him for THAT, Karl. Lesson to be learned here, for luthiers who are victims of their own success: You can either stop taking orders for a while (Gilchrist, Dudenbostel, Kimble); hire more production staff and build a bigger shop (Rigel); or completely flake out (you know who).

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## alsouissi

Post removed by moderator.

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## Jerry Byers

Does "lion's den" mean anything to you? It's your first post and you want to get in the middle of this unfortunate mess!?

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## Moose

That RONO - what a guy! -

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## mandodave5

If anyone is thinking of hiring a REAL lawyer (Boulder DA Claire Hunter can only do so much of course)to either get money back from RONO (unlikely) or get the mandolins we have paid for (also unlikely), I would be interested in going in to file a joint-claim. I have been waiting for 1.5 years now and have heard very little...in fact, nothing in 12months. I can't afford a lawyer on my own, but some of you in the same situation have expressed interest in the past of going after this collectively. I live in New York, but can always be reached if someone is willing to take more steadfast action. Email me by my handle @yahoo.com.

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## Tom C

It's hard to sue somebody for something they do not have. $$. You may have more luck trying to get the mando you ordered compared to your money back. How about small claims court where you do not need a laywer?

It sounds like he got into the typical "contractor" dilemer where he relied on somebody else's down payment to complete another persons mando. Then ran out of money.

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## FlawLaw

It will probably be hard to collect even if you get a judgment - particularly if the guy has no money or has a ton of judgments against him already.

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## mangolin

the latest from my end:

small claims courts do not allow legal representation. #that's why i'm going that route. #and yes, collection could be tough, but as i've already purchased a replacement instrument, so as not to forfeit any more gigs than i did in the first 15 or so months of waiting for an instrument, i no longer need a mandolin. #in addition, in any interactions i've had with ron oates where i even hinted at being the least little tiny itsy bitsy bit less than overjoyed with his schedule, etc., he has gotten angry and said that if i didn't like the way things were going he would just stop working on my instrument all together. #hence, i am somewhat concerned about the quality of an instrument he would produce if done so under legal duress. #

so, the likelihood of getting all of my money back in a timely manner is small. #the likelihood of getting most of my money back in an untimely manner is pretty good, according to the members of the boulder county district court system with whom i have conferred. #it's what i feel is the best choice out of a collection of bad choices. #and again, i'm not angry or attempting to financially ruin someone, i just want to move on while having to pay as little as possible for the lesson i have learned here. #

i'll keep y'all posted when i have a definite court date. #

karl

oh, and i think tom c is correct. i think ron's m.o. was to pay april's bills with may's money, and he was able to do that for a while because he made some instruments for some famous people. i think that as word got out about his service difficulties, the flow of money coming in ebbed, so he wasn't able to keep going in this fashion. a bummer for those of us who sent him some money, but probably a good thing for the mandolin world overall, and certainly a great thing for other electric luthiers who simply keep in touch with their clients and make realistic schedules for themselves.

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## Moose

mangolin: Thanks for keeping us "posted" - Regards and good luck. Moose.

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## FlawLaw

> small claims courts do not allow legal representation. #


That's really odd. I represent people in New York in small claims court all the time. I appeared in one a few weeks ago and have seven more scheduled in May and June. Granted it one is more likely to find pro se claimants, but at least in New York it is becoming more common to find attorneys.

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## jim simpson

FlawLaw,
Are the settlement limits sufficient to make it worthwhile to hire a lawyer for small claims court?
mangolin,
Thanks also for keeping us up on this - very interesting!
Good luck!
Jim

----------


## FlawLaw

> FlawLaw,
> Are the settlement limits sufficient to make it worthwhile to hire a lawyer for small claims court?
> mangolin,
> Thanks also for keeping us up on this - very interesting!
> Good luck!
> Jim


I will answer via PM.

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## mangolin

sorry- for the record, i meant that lawyers were not required in small claims court, not not allowed. #just my bad verbage during hasty typing.

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## Cetecea

All prices include instrument, case and delivery within the continental USA. If you have any questions regarding any of our products, do not hesitate to email Rono. He enjoys working one-to-one with his customers.


From his website. I couldn't get past the irony of it...

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## Moose

ah!..., that RONO, what a guy!! -

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## mangolin

the latest from my end-

i just got off the phone with the boulder county sheriff's dept, and they have been to ron's apparent abode many times over the last month, but either he is not home or doesn't answer the door, so they have not yet been able to serve him for our court date next month. my next step is to hire a private server, which will be more effective but eat into the money that ron owes me. eeeek. the saga continues....

go ahead moose. it's your turn. we're all waiting for it. 

karl

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## Moose

Yeah buddy!! - That RONO! - What a guy!! (seriously...,good luck!) -

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## mandroid

As another aggrieved customer , I am willing to be part of some class action suit, and share some costs to get some of my$1250 back. enough of us chorus in 'me too' and maybe its pushing past the limits of small claims court. for good or additional complication..

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## mangolin

ok mandroid- that's two of us. #i'm not sure how many more there are. #i think that one potential difficulty could be the length of time we've waited for our instruments- that is, could the judge say that six months is a reasonable delay for a handcrafted instrument, but more than that is not, etc? #in addition, since some people are in the hole for more than others, how would compensation work? #if we all got the same amount of money, some of us would get 100% of their investment back, some perhaps 50%. i also have no idea how much legal representation will cost, etc. so, i think there are some unpressed shirts that need starching before we decide to go in as a group. #however, given the difficulty that the court is having in finding ron and serving him with my suit, it may be that the only way for us all to get anywhere is to sacrifice some of our money and do it as a group. 

if there is anyone else out there in this uncomfortable boat, you can let me know via pm or whatever. #being almost two years into this and having enough self knowledge to know that ulcers on ron's behalf do not serve me, i have sort of passed through the fire of pain and the chill of agony part and gotten to bemused curiosity, kind of like gandalf. #but i do feel badly for anyone who is earlier in the process, who is still holding out against hope. #it stinks. #we could have all taken up the electric kazoo and become virtuosos in all that time that we spent playing our capoed guitars with one string taken off or whatever in eager anticipation of our rono. #

karl

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## Ken Sager

Joke, or real? Ron Oates posted an ad:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin....trieval

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## mrmando

Wow, that's ugly. 

But if you buy it, then Rono will have enough $ to pay off mangolin, mandroid, and two or three other angry cats...

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## Tom C

Ugly yes, 5 pickups -pretty cool.
He says $7500 or Best offer. Offer $300.

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## dang

mangolin-maybe you could have the boulder county sheriff's dept check Michael Kang's mando out for you! 

edit: I do mean this sarcastically!...a lot of communication to leave up to a little winking smiley face...

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## Scott Tichenor

The IP address matches his area of the country. I say it's likely legit. Let's keep it civil folks. I don't endorse his business practices and wait list issues, but that doesn't give anyone the right the hassle someone making a sale as long as they're honest on that end. I've given him a window in which to respond to me to check if it's legit. If not, it'll be gone at some point soon.

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## Lee

If I was playng a Rono in public, I'd put black masking tape over the headstock so no one out in the crowd who's still waiting for theirs would get upset.

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## mandroid

Heads Up , He's got stuff to sell listed in the Classifieds, buyers beware the $7000 could just disapear and you get nothing but empty promises.

I checked back...Its gone , I may not have been the only "wheres my money" reply.. 

now its there again  ad# 19068
listed (303) 545 2623 phone

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## Lee

Maybe Scott deleted it. 
That F-hole looked monstrously large and ditorted.

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## dang

Like mandroid posted above, IT'S BACK

Add Number: # 19068
Date Posted: #06/10/2006 

Makes me wonder if Scott really did delete it or not!

edit: I had questioned if indeed it was Michael Kang's mandolin (I imagine he will hold on to the dragon for life) that is being sold in the classifides to which mrmando responded in the next post. I did some searching and my apologies because Kang did play it!

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## mrmando

Hey, the Kangster has owned several e-mandos. I have no reason to doubt that he actually used this instrument.

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## alsouissi

Just because Knag owned it I don't think that it is worth 7,500 Dollars, and besides it wont play or sound better just because he played it.

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## mrmando

What? Next you'll be telling me that the $79.99 vial of KANG® Mojo-Sweat I've been wearing around my neck for three years is worthless!

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## alsouissi

No i am not saying that the mando is worthless. I just think that it is not worth 7,500. I believe the ony reason he is selling it for that much is to pay back some of the people that he did dirty, but it is not mine to sell so my opinion realy does not matter i was just saying.You never know one day some crazy that would pay $79.99 for a vial of some man sweat migh be stupid enough to pay that much for a rono, but some people call me crazy for paying 2500 for a rono custom.

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## mrmando

Maybe I need to throw in a few more of these    when I make a joke.

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## mikeomando

I got it the first time, mrmando, FWIW.

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## mangolin

I dont know. #My aunt in Teaneck accidentally spilled a couple of drops of KANG® Mojo-Sweat in her onion and pineapple soup at our Arbor Day reunion last year and my cousin Georges wart fell off, Uncle Sylvesters transmission fixed itself, my sister won the lottery and our kitten, Snuggles, grew to 500 times her previous size and is now featured as Pongo, the Siamese Tiger by Ringling Brothers.

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## Moose

We're having WAAAAY too much fun here!!

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## mangolin

well, it happened. the sheriff's dept tracked ron down and served him. i now have a court date in a couple of weeks. whether or not mr. oates will appear is anyone's guess, and should i win, actually collecting my money could be an entirely different can of worms. so we'll see in a couple of weeks what happens. 

in addition, i spoke with claire hunter and she has some good ideas for people who are in the same position, so anyone waiting for money or mandolins from ron should give her a call.

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## Moose

Hey, thanks mangolin!! - I have no $$$$ invested but have been following this "caper" since way back; best 'o luck - pls. keep us posted - I'm sure MANY folks here on the CAFE are with you.., perhaps not in-person but certainly in "kindred" spirit AND support!! - Moose.

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## Matthew Welles

I am the proud owner of a brand new Ron Oates electric mandolin. I commissioned over a year ago, and waited patiently while Ron-O worked on it. I am completely happy with the finish product, and the time it took to finish it. 

It is true that RonO is not the greatest communicator, as he is not computer-tech/e-mail saavy, nor is he especially prompt in returning phone calls.

It is true that my mandolin is phenomenal, and that I think he is a creative genius.

My electric mando is one of the LAST that he will ever make. 

Because of the imaptience of people in our "fast-food nation", people that must think that Ron works on a factory floor cranking out new instruments daily, Ron no longer wishes to provide the music community with his greatest gift, the ability to craft a beatiful instrument.

I am greatly saddened for all of you that will never get to play one of his instruments. And I pity those of you that put him in this position. You are sad, and unworthy of his gifts.

For all of you creative people out there, you may understand that if you are going to create something, the LAST thing you want is someone yelling at you to hurry up, get it done. Ever write a song? Ever make an instrument? Ever be creative? If you try to rush it, you will only force the creative process, and result may be something less than what you expected.

Ron has NEVER failed to deliver a promised instrument.

It may have taken longer than he promised, true. 

Did you help, or hinder, him in the process?

For all of you who helped and supported Ron in his career as a builder, I salute you. As a result, I have a beatiful sounding and looking electric jazz mando. 

For all of you who rushed Ron, who made him despise creating objects of visual and auditory beauty, who made him question his career choice

We have lost a valuable asset to the eMando community.

Peace,

Guy Welles

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## Scott Tichenor

You're opinion is welcome, but some of the language used in your post is unacceptable and has been removed.

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## Ken Sager

> &lt;snip&gt;
> Because of the imaptience of people in our "fast-food nation", people that must think that Ron works on a factory floor cranking out new instruments daily, Ron no longer wishes to provide the music community with his greatest gift, the ability to craft a beatiful instrument.
> 
> I am greatly saddened for all of you that will never get to play one of his instruments. #And I pity those of you that put him in this position. #You are sad, and unworthy of his gifts.
> 
> &lt;snip&gt;
> 
> Ron has NEVER failed to deliver a promised instrument.
> 
> ...


What a pant-load.

Ron made his bed. He made promises he hasn't kept. HE chose these things, not those to whom he made promises.

He sounds like a complete boob who shouldn't be in business.

Oh well.

Love to all,
Ken

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## Matthew Welles

Nice reply. Thank you for your opinion. I like your comment by your name. "Don't Think". Seems appropriate.

I took the time to go meet Ron in person. I researched the comments and debates about him on-line. I knew exactly what to expect when I gave him my deposit. And what I recieved in return has far exceeded my expectations. 

Guy

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## Matthew Welles

Ken, 

Sorry - I shouldn't have lashed out at you personally. My humble apologies.

You are indeed correct. Ron made promises with regard to times to complete the instruments, which he did not live up to. There is absolutely no denying this.

It is simply my opinion that calling the police, involving the court, etc, is not the best way to get the best possible instrument. That was my goal. The means to that end, in my opinion, is to nurture the creative spirit.

If it is simply your goal to get your deposit back, then, by all means, do whatever you like. 

All I am saying is that my method WORKED.

Guy

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## Ken Sager

Apology accepted. I can hardly take offense, but thank you.

My point was that taking Ron at his word hasn't worked, so others have resorted to ASKING him. To which he gives promises that he doesn't keep.

It really sounds like he has problems, and not problems SIMPLY MEETING HIS OWN DEADLINES. I was serious that maybe he shouldn't be in the instrument building business. He's created an atmosphere of mistrust. That isn't created by those to whom he made promises, those whose money he took. That's Ron's doing.

Congrats on getting your instrument Matthew, or Guy, or whatever your name is. If Ron had done for others what he did for you there wouldn't be a need for this type of thread.

He has made a bad name for himself and one instrument delivered on time hardly does anything to fix that. He could clear up a lot of this by simply contacting the people who are owed instruments.

Why can't he do that?

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## Matthew Welles

I think its the same reason bands have managers.

There are so many creative people out there that can't, and shouldn't, run a business. There are painters that shouldn't sell their own work, and need reps, for example. 

There are very few people, relatively, in the world that can do both.

I make no apologies for Ron. 

I just wanted to share my positive experience with people. It was positive because of the way that I dealt with it.

Don't get mad at the storm, just deal with it.

Peace,

Guy

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## Brian Aldridge

I don't know Guy, but if I were you, I would feel a bit bad that I got my mandolin when there were others who had ordered first and gave money to the guy before you, and just because you sweet talked him, or as you put it, it was positive because the way you dealt with it, and other people are out their deposits. I might feel like you got MY mandolin. I don't know that I would be bragging in a public forum that I kissed the guy's rear end while he was putting the shaft to some good people. I know if he had stolen my money, I wouldn't want to be hearing your message that it was all my fault because I didn't handle him right because I am not as smart as you, and you telling me not to get mad at the storm, just deal with it. I guess it will be decided in court, but it appears the guy has stolen some folk's money. That's what they call it when you take someone's money, and do not deliver the goods. I guess I do understand you being happy you got your mandolin, when there no doubt were times you probably thought you wouldn't.

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## JimW

Seems to me the logical solution would be for Ron to build instruments and sell them ONLY when they are completed. This way, he would not take peoples money up front or have to meet deadlines, just build and sell when he gets one finished. However, I think it's far to late for this approach now.

If everything that has been said about him here is true, I personally think this guy belongs in jail. You know, speaking of his "creative genius", maybe he could use that to help design license plates.

Jim Watts

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## Matthew Welles

He was finishing up a 4 string electric when I was there this past weekend. I assume that belongs to one of you.

I should feel bad? What? What planet are you from?

As I mentioned, I read this forum before I contacted Ron initially. 

I knew how long it might take before I got my mando.

I went very long periods of time without hearing from, or hearing back from Ron.

It took 1 year 4 months to get it.

I didn't over-react, freak out, or call the cops when it passed the deadline, and I hadn't heard from him.

For those of you waiting, be patient!

I was, and it made for a better experience.

The guy didn't steal any money. He took a deposit, and is building it. He is taking longer than he said, but he was there working when I was there last weekend.

Like I said, I make no apologies for the guy. And I certainly am not apologizing for myself, Brian. 

I am just advising you to be patient. The guy is a great builder. You'll be happy with your product. Just take a deep breath.

I feel very, very bad for those of you that had to suffer as a result of, as the subject says, Ron Oates' lack of customer service. It is true, and happens, apparently, to everyone that buys one of his instruments. It did to me, though for not as long as some.

Take solace in the fact that when you do finally get it, it will probably be the last one he ever builds. And as Kangs is selling for $7K (we'll see if that sells), and Kangs band is getting bigger, it is likely that it will appreciate in value, just as Trey's builder, Paul Languedoc's instruments have.

I, personally, don't think that someone should be in jail for this. 

Actually, I think the DA would have a hard time putting a man in jail for this, when he would show up in court with a near-completed mandolin.

Anyway, try to be patient. I know its hard. 

Peace,

Guy

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## Moose

Yeah..., right, what's the "big deal", anyhow!!?? - many of - us - probably just don't understand th' guy! - That RONO..., what a guy! - Moose -

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## dang

I think Rono just doesn't have a concept of "The time value of money "

sorry-I just took an accounting class

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## mangolin

as perhaps the current poster child for the disgruntled ron oates customers at this point, i figured i'd just weigh in. #

congratulations on your new instrument, guy. #any musician knows that the receipt of a new instrument of high quality is perhaps the coolest experience any of us can have. #i don't begrudge you your mandolin at all. #there are many reasons why yours might have been completed quicker than mine- shorter scale length, less custom appointments, fewer pickups. #

i have been patient. #had my mandolin arrived in the same temporal schedule as yours i would have received it 9 months ago. #i have not had any hostile interactions with ron, and did not begin to pursue legal action until my instrument was 19 months overdue. #if you had to wait another 5 months for your instrument, and still had no returned phone calls or interaction of any sort, would you have still been as patient? #i don't know, and you don't either. #Perhaps. #perhaps not. #so i simply ask that you attempt to reserve judgment when you are unable to, as the trite old saying goes, stand in my shoes. #you have had a positive experience with ron. #i have not. #that is all. #and, as posted before, i am quite certain that if i received a rono it is quite likely i would become a member of the converted. #that, however, seems unlikely in my case. #

is the course of action i decided upon the correct one? #i don't know. #but i do not feel at fault for simply asking someone to act in a semiprofessional manner, and for taking steps to recoup my investment when that person does not live up to that reasonable request. #i certainly wish i was not a frequent poster on this board, but, for me, at some point, enough was enough. #

again, i'm sure your instrument is of the highest quality, and i wish you happy pickin'. 

karl

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## Tom C

It seems the biggest mistake he made that caused most of the grief was not returning calls. Many folks who wait a year for an instrument can surely wait another 6 months or even a year longer -Even if they are unhappy. But avoiding contact from people who paid you money is bad business and plain wrong. The least he could have done is contact his customers. Most would be very understanding.

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## mangolin

well, it's done. #ron did not show up for court, and after hearing from me, the DA and the officer that served him to appear, the judge found in my favor, and decided that ron owes me a bunch of money. #i was sort of hoping that ron would show up with my mandolin and say that he was on the way to ups to send it out. but this decision is the next best thing for me.

collecting this money will be another matter entirely. #i will keep you updated as events warrant.
karl

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## mandroid

Did you have to travel to Boulder for personal court appearance?

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## mangolin

no, mandroid, i did not. i just called the boulder county court and they transferred me in to the courtroom, and i "appeared" by phone.

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## Moose

Yup!! That RONO! - What a guy!! - must'a bought Rev. Jim Baker's book - keep the faith AND keep those "contributions" roll'n IN! - (mangolin: thanks for the "update" - hope you get at least some $$$$ - AND satisfaction.) - Moose.

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## delsbrother

Isn't this at some point just considered "theft"?

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## mrmando

I have a Rono Workingman's Special 5-string on the way. Been wheelin' and dealin'. I'll try it out but I don't intend keeping it, so look for it in the Classifieds soon. Along with that vial of KANG Mojo-Sweat.

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## jmkatcher

Wouldn't that be a "Rono Runningman Special"?

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## Michael_M

Wow! I have spent the last 3 hours reading this entire thread. I truly feel for all parties involved. I hope everything is resolved peacefully.

I found Moose's interjection of "That RONO! - What a guy!!" to be funnier and funnier everytime I read it.   I'm sure it has nothing to do with it being 2:30 in the morning my time... It was just plain funny!

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## mangolin

well, moose, answering your query:

the latest is that the court issued another subpoena for ron, this time to appear in court and disclose his financial records, so the court could go about deciding on a plan to reimburse me. #i just got the return of service today, and the officer who served it stated:
"I certify I have served the within documents, by leaving it with the individual named (ron oates). #this officer asked the party in question if he was ron oates. #the individual replied that he could be ron oates. #this officer then handed the papers to the individual, whereupon the individual threw the papers to the ground."

this next court date is in a couple of weeks. #i will, of course, let everyone know what happens.

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## 250sc

Mangolin,

Congratulations, sounds like a breakthrough.

I don't buy the "don't bother the genius" argument. The fact that he wont even admit who he is tells me something about his integrity.

Good luck.

And now a word from Moose?

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## Moose

aaahhhh! - That RONO - what a guy!!?# -

----------


## mandroid

Claire Hunter - chunter@co.boulder.co.us of the District attorneys office said there is an online form to submit to add to the complaint to the "pattern of business practices' statute. 
He is pretending he is above the law and aint in the White house.

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## eastcarterman

i've been following this saga for quite a while. and i will stay with it.

it makes me laugh out loud that he threw the papers to the ground.

it sounds like he got served and is still in shock about it!

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## jim simpson

"..the individual replied that he could be ron oates" 
That is funny, it reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Bart was asked it he knew algebra. Bart responded that he knew "of algebra"!

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## FlawLaw

Some people believe that if they don't hold on to the papers they haven't really been served.

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## dang

mangolin - another subpoena! I'm glad you have the patience to go through all of this process and I hope that you get your money back (plus interest)!

I also hope all RONO mandolin owners are gouging his name out of the headstock in protest to his business practices (this goes beyond black electrical tape). I promise it won't affect the sound

----------


## clem

As a Rono owner and player (I got mine 2nd hand, luckily) I have followed this thread with interest and dismay. I have been very lucky working with luthiers on commissioned instruments. Not one has been a great businessman; most have left something to be desired in communication or outreach skills, but all of them have been honorable and, happily, very talented.

As for Ron(o), I am no longer surprised that my attempts to get information about the mandolin I bought have gone unanswered. Its a really messed up situation and I feel for all of the victims here on the board.

Rather than gouge out my headstock, I have taken to placing a piece of tape over the "R". Yes, I play an ono (pronounced "Oh No!"). I have told the sad tale to a few audience members who have asked (and probably wished they hadn't).

Keep fighting the good fight. 

Clem

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## Moose

ONO!!!## - it's a RONO! (seriously,.. enjoy your mando ; as you inferred, RONO'S luthier abilities surely far outweigh his "people"/business attributes/qualities). Moose.

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## mangolin

yet another update in this long and winding thread:
the boulder county court held a hearing on the 22nd called an interrogatory, which is a thing where ron comes to court and has to provide financial records so the court can figure out how to best recover my money from him, and the boulder county da (claire hunter) had ron served to come to a separate meeting with her to address the issue of renumeration to other customers. #the da showed up, the court clerk showed up, the magistrate showed up, and the baliff showed up. #one person did not show up either time. #would anyone care to guess who did not show up at either hearing? #your possible choices are:
1. #mike tyson
2. #george washington
3. #ron oates
4. none of the above

i have two courses of action i've been advised to now pursue. #when one or both pans out, i will, of course, let you all know the gory details. #and i will again state that this is the first time i've ever gone through any kind of court thing like this, and it is not something i'm doing out of spite or hatred, and it could all have been avoided by ron returning a couple of phone calls over the last couple of years. #at this point, though, i am wishing i gave the check to the old woman i saw on the way to the post office a couple of years ago who offered me three magic mandolin tree beans. #darn darn darn.
karl

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## mrmando

> 1. mike tyson
> 2. george washington
> 3. ron oates


My guess is that NONE of those guys showed up...

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## mangolin

ok, mr. mando pointed out the fact that all 3 of my choices would have been correct choices, so i added none of the above, which has become the only correct answer. glad to have the help of the non-guitar string instrument community, which has always had a reputation for grammaticably good english.

----------


## frankseanez

One thing to remember, Rono's mandos ROCK to the utmost!! I have heard claims that other electrics by other names play just as sweet, but I have found those claims to be unfounded. Suffice it to say that Homer and I are VERY happy together. While I was extremely bothered by the length of time it took to get my mando, I now heartily regret the manner by which I finally obtained my mandolin. It's like telling Michelango to hurry up painting the church ceiling! Flame on, brothers and sisters!!

Frank Seanez

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## EdSherry

Frank, the complaint has not been about the quality of Ron's mandolins. #The complaint has been about the fact that he takes money from people, does not honor his delivery commitments, and refuses to work with them (or, apparently, anyone else, including the Colorado courts) to resolve their concerns.

His instruments may well be great (I don't have first-hand experience), but that does not either explain or justify his behavior.

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## frankseanez

D'Oh! #Believe me, I know. #However, if anyone made arrangements with Ron after reading any portion of this thread, I would posit that such person entered into a business relationship wherein they knew, or should have known, that the projected delivery date would pass without completion of the mandolin, that at least one year, and perhaps two or three would pass before the mando would be delivered, and that Ron would not return phone calls or e-mails. #Hear me now, and believe me later. #When you get the mandolin, it will, in my opinion, exceed your expectations by a quantum measure. #You will soon be sorry, as a musician and a person, that you took legal measures to rush the production of what will be a truly magnificent custom instrument. #Believe me. #I know.

Frank Seanez

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## jmkatcher

This sub-thread is like someone talking about the great contracting job done for them by John Wayne Gacy. Yes, it's a great patio and barbecue, but there are bodies buried underneath.

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## EdSherry

Frank, you seem to be assuming that the people who are complaining about Ron WERE aware of the problems ahead of time and nevertheless decided to order an instrument from him. #That strikes me as an unwarranted assumption.

In any case, it doesn't justify Ron ignoring the courts, or refusing to refund the money of people who are NOT willing to wait indefinitely.

----------


## jmcgann

If he continues to ignore court orders, I'd say the wait will be...quite a good deal longer....

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## frankseanez

Why no, Ed! However, if folks ordered after reading this thread, they most certainly took such action with foreknowledge of the likely obstacles to be encountered. What I find more interesting at this juncture is why folks are taking the long and winding road to Rono, instead of the superhighway to Mandoburgh, or the State of Schwab, or some other, more accessible destination. Could it be that the Rono is worth the wait, however maddening? You can only know the answer if you have taken the journey yourself, mon Sherry!

Frank

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## glauber

Yes, go for it... the unecessary suffering that you will bring upon yourself may help make a bluesman out of you.

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## EdSherry

Frank, I've deal;t in the past with people who had previously had problems with customer service, but who swore that they had gotten their act together and asked me to trust them. #On occasion, I've succumbed to that blandishment, only to discover that the problems had NOT been solved. #
 #
Am I at fault for taking someone at his word that he has turned over a new leaf? #Is it inappropriate for me to complain because (despite his promises that he has reformed his ways) he still has the same problems as before? #

In particular, is it inappropriate for me to try to hold him to his promises?

Again, the people who are complaining are the ones who ordered from Ron (rather than someone else). #If they wanted to continue to wait (and wait, and wait ...) for their instruments, they obviously could choose to do so. #

But if someone is tired of waiting, and tired of being put off, and tired of the lack of communication, and concerned that he/she may never get the instrument for which he/she paid a deposit, I for one don't see anything wrong in complaining loud and hard both to Ron and (when Ron fails to respond) to the courts. # 

YMMV.

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## frankseanez

Oh! I don't doubt you Mon Sherry! But if you see the pie in the road, and you insist on stepping in it, should you complain that you got some on your shoe? You must have really wanted to get some on you. No?

Frank

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## EdSherry

Frank -- so you're telling me that people "insisted" on Ron not honoring his delivery promises, refusing to communicate with them, refusing to refund their money, and refusing to respond to the Colorado courts? Somehow I doubt it.

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## frankseanez

Mais non, Sherry! But haven't they insisted on following a course of action wherein they knew the reported and likely consequences, and, intent on their acquisition of a Rono, continued beyond the point of no return? Will such obvious afficionados be truly satisfied with anything less than their receipt of the item, the res, the illusive 5 string electric mandolin, hand-crafted by the artisan himself? I know that they won't.

Frank

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## AlanN

...On and on, I'll follow my darlin,and I wonder where she will be...

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## EdSherry

Frank, this thread started in January 2004. #People (like you) who ordered before then could not have read the thread and thus presumably could not have "insisted on following a course of action where they knew the reported and likely consequences ..."

I'd be interested in knowing of ANYONE who ordered from Ron AFTER knowing what we know now AND who is complaining. Any takers?

I quote from your own post of 10/12/04:

"I've reached my personal point of no return with Rono, and will be proceeding with the DA's Office and civil courts this week. #I ordered my mando in March 2003 and have received repeated claims that it would be done, this week, in two weeks, since June 2004. Enough is enough."

And from your post of 2/05:

"If only it hadn't taken so long and required the intervention of the DA's Office in order to actually receive the same, I'd be overjoyed [with the instrument]. #As it is, I'm merely relieved to have obtained an acceptable outcome." 

Obviously, you're happy now. Some people who have ordered from Ron are presumably still willing to hang in there in the hopes of getting what they ordered. Others are no longer willing to do so. I for one don't blame them.

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## ricardo

Ah!!! -that RONO! - what a guy!## # #

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## mandroid

Last weeks email Claire Hunter referred me to: (303) 441 3333 the Boulder police department , and so lack of his response has it being shifted to a theft complaint, from a consumer affairs issue . now that I unearthed the stubs for the postal money orders [ not very organized ],, think Ill file a claim with the postmaster, track his cashing them history , fraud thru the mail may apply, then mail the reciepts to Boulder PD..

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## frankseanez

I don't blame them either, but I don't think they'll be happy with an outcome that doesn't involve their receipt of the obscure object of desire. And if they get it, they'll be sorry that they went that way. By the way, when did you make your order, Mon Sherry?

Frank

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## EdSherry

Frank -- I didn't hear about Ron's instruments until after this thread started. #I never ordered one because of concerns about not receiving what I paid for. #(I acknowledge that I don't speak from first-hand experience dealing with Ron, but I don't see why that is relevant to any of the points I've made.)

I fully agree that people who order one of Ron's instruments want one, but presumably they also want to get it within a reasonable period of time. #(If I order dinner at 8 PM, I'm not going to be happy if it doesn't show up until 11 PM.) #What would make them happy is to have him deliver an instrument (as Ron finally did for you), but also to deliver as promised (which, as you acknowledged in your earlier postings, didn't happen for you).

The problem is that Ron doesn't appear to be delivering, and (moreover) he does not appear to be communicating with people as to WHY he is not, or refunding their money if they get fed up and don't want to be put off any longer with promises that he doesn't honor.

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## mangolin

haven't been here in a while, having moved recently. #i sure wouldn't have ordered if i saw this thread ahead of time. #i think that the thing is that the people who are in the worried camp are those who have no assurance from ron that their money has been well spent, and those in the "it will be ok camp" are those who have received their instrument. #and in most cases, those in the second camp only got there after spending a long time in the first, and the only thing that moved them was receipt of their instrument. #if i had received my instrument, i'd believe that ron was just a slow worker, but i haven't, so i'm not mentally there.

and i will again state that i have no vengeance mentality or anything like that. #it's just like any other business agreement. #when it comes to a point when the work is 600% overdue, the contractor needs to either get working or let me know that it's not possible to finish the work and refund my money, so i have the means to find someone else to do the work. #it ain't personal, it's just business. #

i realize that ron has gotten himself into hot water before, but claire (the boulder da) told me that before she could meet with him and talk to him, and this time he's stopped coming by to see her when she sends him a subpoena or the like. #did my legal attempts to recover my money make him angry or make him stop working on my instrument? #quite possibly. #was it the right thing to do? #i still think so, and i will again state that i waited longer than any of the others on this thread who instigated a legal process before starting mine. i teach music lessons to developmentally challenged kids. #i have the patience of TWO saints. ##

i guess it's like being in line at dmv. #we see the clock ticking, and it's close to closing time, and we need our license, and we all have a terrible suspicion that someone's gonna get left out in the cold. #when someone at the front of their line gets their license, they are relieved and joyful, but that doesn't get me my license, and the clock is still ticking, and i'm not entirely certain that just because someone else got theirs i'm guaranteed of getting mine, and all the well-meaning reassurance in the world from other neophyte license-holders is fine, but it still doesn't get me my license.

i'd just like to see this thread as rancor-free as possible. #i realize there are people who feel taken advantage of by ron and are angry. #and i realize there are people who are rono owners and feel as though a great craftsman is being attacked. #my motive is quite simple. #to move my two-year-old-plus money from ron's wallet back into mine. #if that seems unreasonable or deceitful or just plain rotten to someone, they are welcome to say so. #i retain the right, however, to respectfully disagree, and i continue to wish everyone happy pickin'.
karl

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## ricardo

Noww!!!! - here we have a "reasonable" & understanding individual person on-board - after all..., it's only money(!!), only been a few weeks..., just give RONO a little more time!! - maybe he's been sick..., maybe depressed - family problems... - he's probably a decent christian fellow! - # what's a few dollars among friends! - Guess some folks just ain't got no patience -no sense o' humor -that RONO...WHAT A GUY!?? - Ricardo.

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## mandroid

Someone else want to donate the $1250.oo, ill change my mind, 
 and drop the refund.
being shined on for over 4 years is rather over the top. 
MO purchase dated for March '02.

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## mangolin

mandroid-
i'm not saying that your (or my, or anyone's) displeasure isn't expected or understandable. #and i'm doing the best i can to resolve the situation using all the tools at my disposal i can. #it's just not worth ulcers, i guess. #i had ulcers at the ripe age of 21 and realized that nothing was worth more ulcers, including this. #i just mean that the two sides here (rono owners and rono waiters) are coming from different points of view, and no quantity of exclamation points at the end of a post will change anyone's mind. #i feel for you, bro, and i'm sorry we're both on this thread, along with everyone else here. #continuing to wish all happy pickin'.

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## frankseanez

D'oh K, let me get this straight. Cafe patrons who have actually ordered mandos from Ron Oates (as opposed to mere kibbitzers, who are here only to ogle the trainwreck) have succeeded in pressing the legal option to the point that the artist has gone underground. Good folks, acting completely within their rights, have not received either their money back, or their coveted RonO mandolins. Aside from temporarily assuaging your outrage, what is the upside? Certainly, the shadowboxing in this forum is entertaining, but how is it getting anyone closer to what they really want, or deserve? Has the prize gotten lost in the game? Remember, legal tools are only that, tools. And you can ruin your work with a good tool, just by pressing on it a bit too firmly at the wrong time. While I'm sure the kibbitzers have their theoretical ideas, I'm more interested in hearing from the Rono Waiters as to their ideas, now that the legal tool is apparently no longer working.

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## EdSherry

Frank -- Like it or not, the legal system is the primary mechanism we as a society have to resolve disputes when people are unwilling/unable to work out their differences. # 

You say "the legal tool is no longer working," but why is that? #Because Ron is (apparently) refusing to cooperate. #Unfortunately, it takes time for the legal process to work, especially when what is at issue is a contract dispute (over non-delivery) that the legal system does not treat as a "crime" unless and until Ron disregards the legal system (as he apparently has).

If Ron is "underground," that's his choice -- but IMHO he's not entitled to ignore the legal system, or to refuse to refund people's money if they're fed up.

Sure, it would be nice if Ron honored his commitments, delivered instruments on time as promised, and communicated with disgruntled customers. #Sure, it would be nice if it were not necessary to use the "tool" (limited as it is) that society provides for dealing with those who do not honor their promises. # But that's within Ron's control, not his customers' control.

If Ron were stepping up production and reducing the backlog of orders, that would be one thing. Is there any evidence that that is the case? #

In your 10/20 post, you said: #"When you get the mandolin, it will, in my opinion, exceed your expectations by a quantum measure." #The problem as I see it is that disgruntled customers have no faith, and no assurance, that they WILL get their mandolins -- and certainly not on time. 

If Ron is refusing to cooperate with the courts, what makes you think that he is EVER going to deliver the instruments that people have ordered and paid for? 

I wonder -- if you already didn't have yours, would you still be suggesting that using the legal process was counterproductive? #(Calling Ron to try to work things out clearly isn't working. #Do you have any constructive suggestions for alternative things that disgruntled customers can do?)

On the "kibitzer" issue: #I fully acknowledge that I am not personally affected. #But given that you already have yours, IMHO you would seem to be as much a "kibitzer" as anyone else on this thread who is not currently adversely affected by Ron's behavior.

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## frankseanez

Mon Sherry! Every tool to its proper use. Yourself as well. For all your sound and apparent fury, what do you have to add to the resolution of this matter? Nothing. Instead you appear to want to continue to press your chisel to wood that is already splintered. To what end? None.

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## frankseanez

Mon Kibittzer! #Since you have never ordered, or owned, or sought to own a RonO, I find it guffaw-worthy for you to masquerade as anything but exactly what you are ... a rubber-necker at the disaster site. #As I have ordered, have waited, have acted, to own and to play a RonO, and seeking further RonOs, I am exactly what you are not ... an interested participant in the market.

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## EdSherry

Frank -- you are mistaken when you say I have never "sought to own a RonO." #I'd like to buy one, given the good things I've heard about the instruments themselves. #I just don't want to order one (and haven't ordered one) from Ron, given what I now know.

You now say you are "seeking further RonOs." #Have you ordered one from Ron since you had your problems with him? #Or are you talking about trying to buy them second hand? #

If the former, more power to you. #But then you would appear to fall into the category that you previously described (10/20) as someone who "entered into a business relationship wherein they knew, or should have known, that the projected delivery date would pass without completion of the mandolin, that at least one year, and perhaps two or three would pass before the mando would be delivered, and that Ron would not return phone calls or e-mails." #If so, you do not have my sympathy, which I save for those who did NOT agree to such behavior.

If the latter, what the @#$% does that have to do with Ron's customer service problems? #Buying second-hand eliminates all of those problems.

You ask what I have to add to the resolution of this matter. #Unfortunately, not much, given Ron's behavior. #I didn't "splinter the wood." #Ron did. #I didn't initiate legal action. #Ron's customers did (as did you). #All I've done is comment on what I thought were some pretty strange comments on your part, which struck me as along the "blame the victims" line. #But I confess I don't see your suggestions to date as doing anything to "help" either. #And contrary to your suggestion, I have never "masqueraded" as anything.

I DO have a suggestion for you, however. #If (as you say) you are interested in buying more of Ron's instruments, I'm sure that there are plenty of dissatisfied people who have ordered from him and given him a deposit [Mangolin and Mandroid come to mind] who would be happy to sell you their "place in line" in exchage for YOU (not Ron) paying them back their deposits. 

That way, everybody is happy (aren't they?). #Ron gets out of trouble with the law; the dissatisfied customers get their money back; and you get more RonO instruments (like you say you want). #Obviously, Ron will honor their deposits and deliver the instruments you say you want to buy (won't he?). #And obviously you'll be happy to get them if and when Ron gets around to delivering (won't you?)

Whaddya say? #Huh? #

D'oh indeed.

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## Lee

Shortly before this thread began I was very close to sending RonO a deposit check for his Workingman's Special. #Stuff happened (AAS; Amp Acquisition Syndrome) and I didn't. #I read this thread from the beginning and have thanked my lucky stars. #
Personally, I would not even buy a used RonO at this point. #Though, for those who treasure RonO instruments in spite of his obvious lack of ethics, I say "Go for it". #And for those who wish they hadn't, EdSherry's suggestion to sell their place in line provides a win-win-win situation for all three parties.
Go for it.

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## fatt-dad

Welcome back "ricardo" (wink, wink. . . )

f-d

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## frankseanez

I would certainly consider purchasing a used RonO. Anyone who owns one and wants to offer it for sale, please send me a private post. Ed's endless churning of facts already well known from the now 13 pages of this thread, without suggesting any viable resolutions does nothing for those who are still waiting on Rondot. If his beating of the dead horse gives you comfort, I am happy for you. But even then, aren't you really looking for an acceptable conclusion to your quandry? You aren't going to get that from Ed's cheerleading of a course of action that has already been apparently done to death. Now, I understand that Ed is now attempting to masquerade as a solution-maker by suggesting that I buy up all the outstanding deposits. Well, we all know that is not going to happen. I would only consider the bird in hand, not the one in the bush. What else do you have, Ed? Anything that makes sense within reality, as we know it?

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## kww

I don't know what people are suggesting that doesn't make sense, Frank. The only reasonable outcome at this stage is to seek a solution that gets everybody their money back and ensures that Ron never again leaves a jail cell before he dies. His defiance of the legal system may handle the second part, and getting everybody on the waiting list together in a joint civil lawsuit may handle the first. So what's your problem?

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## EdSherry

Frank -- Again, you seem to want to have it both ways. #You originally said (10/19) that you "heartily regretted" resorting to the legal system, and then said (10/20) that people who pursued the legal system in order to get their instruments (which apparently worked for you, but clearly has not worked for others) would regret having done so. You now say that using the legal system won't work. #What alternative do YOU propose? #Waiting until Ron delivers? #When will that be? #Indeed, I'm sure that many are concerned that he may NEVER deliver as promised. #

You said (and still say) that you want more RonO instruments. #But you're not willing to put yourself in the position that others (involuntarily) find themselves in. #I proposed what (on your own logic) would have been a "win-win-win" solution. #You say "We all know that's not going to happen." #But WHY not? #Because you "would only consider a bird in the hand, not one in the bush." #Exactly my point; you want more RonO mandolins, but aren't willing to run the risk of non-delivery. #Unfortunately, others aren't so lucky to have a choice.

To the extent that I'm "cheerleading" for anything, it's that Ron's disgruntled customers let the Colorado DA know of the extent of the problem. #The Colorado courts are unlikely to take action if there's only one disgruntled customer. #The more customers who complain, the greater the chance they'll take action. #Will that ultimately result in people getting the instruments they ordered? #Probably not. #But maybe people can get at least some of their money back (e.g., if Ron has assets that the court can attach). #But waiting for Ron to resolve the outstanding complaints clearly isn't working.

I agree that everyone is looking for an "acceptable solution to [the] quandary," but Ron isn't cooperating, and none of us can make him (though maybe the Colorado legal system ultimately can). #I wish I had a solution. #I don't. #You don't either. #At least I acknowledge that I don't.

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## frankseanez

Thanks, Ed! You finally owned up to the fact that you don't have anything constructive to add to this matter. At least I am willing to consider purchasing the RonOs that folks don't want, because of their outrage over Ron's customer service. You can keep up with your campaign to imprison Ron Oates, or at least drive him out of business, due to what he did to you. Oh, yeah, I forgot. He never did anything to you. EdSherry, kibitzer-extraordinaire, non-player and non-owner and non-purchaser of RonOs. Thanks for your insights into the nothing you know of this matter!

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## EdSherry

Frank -- I have never "campaign[ed] to imprison Ron Oates." #You can only be imprisoned for a crime. #Failure to honor contractual agreements is not a crime. #Failure to respond to the legal process IS (it's called "contempt of court"). #Ron can avoid being found in contempt by cooperating with the Colorado courts. #He apparently has chosen not to do so. #

Nor have I "campaigned to "drive [Ron] out of business." #I'd like nothing better than to see Ron fix the problems that he seems to have created, honor his commitments, communicate with his customers, and continue to make mandolins. #I'm sure many of his customers feel the same. #Again, that's in his control, not mine. 

I never said that Ron ever did anything to me personally; I acknowledged that fact openly. #(Are you suggesting that the only people that should post to this thread are people who Ron HAS harmed?)

If you don't like my pointing out what appear to me to be inconsistencies in your position, that's your prerogative. #But please don't try to tell me that you have offered any constructive advice or solutions. #Being "willing to consider purchasing the [used] RonOs that folks don't want" (which I have already said I am also willing to do) is NOT a solution to the problem at hand -- namely, Ron's failure to deliver the NEW mandolins that people have ordered and paid deposits on.

I started contributing to this thread to make what I thought were reasonable comments on an issue of general interest to the mandolin community. #As a result, I've been dragged into something that has degenerated into name-calling. #Frank, to quote one of your earlier posts (about Ron's behavior), "Enough is enough." #Continue the thread without me.

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## frankseanez

Contributing? Contributing what? Nothing you have said has done anything but rehash other people's issues. I am glad that you have ceased to post to this thread. Maybe someone needs you to lionize the virtues of the Godin A-8, or the ...urk ... Fender electric mandolins. Excuse me, the thought of the Fenders you have recommended made me puke just a little bit.

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## EdSherry

Frank -- given that you've changed the topic (to your reaction to my opinions on other electric mandos) -- if you want to debate those issues, why not post to those threads? #I agree that the import Fenders are not nearly as nice as a handmade instrument, but they're a lot less money.

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## AlanN

Maybe this Ed and Frank are the same person, kind of like the devil and angel on each shoulder. Maybe this is Rono himself being schizo. And maybe not, but it's rapidly approaching the "Who gives a toot" stage, if not already there.

Carry on, whoever you are.

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## EdSherry

Alan -- No, I'm not Frank. I agree that we have long since passed the "who gives a toot" stage. That's why I'm out of here.

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## frankseanez

Promises, promises. May I suggest Immodium for your infirmity.

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## CharlieKnuth

Frank,

I for one, do not appreciate your personal attacks. Sure you have a difference of opinion, but your personal attacks are not appreciated. Sure you got your Ron Oates mandolin and think that it is a great instrument. The are others who wish to receive theirs and sometimes taking things to court is how things actually get resolved. The fact that Mr. Oates has failed to respond to nothing would have me demanding either he deliver the promised mandolin now or I get the money back. I don't care how great it sounds and how much it could be worth in the future. People have to be treated with respect, especially if they have paid for something that is not delivered on time and there is no communication from the person who has promised it. This smacks of taking the money and running. In today's world there are a lot of alternatives for mandolins, it may not be the exact mandolin one is looking for, but it is easier to play something than nothing at all. Most people work hard for their money and giving it away for a dreamed about mandolin and then finding no mandolin and no money returned is intolerable.

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## frankseanez

Thank you so much for the continued rehashing of posts made one pages 1 through 3 of this thread.

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## Scott Tichenor

This discussion has moved from exchange into flaming, which is against our posting guidelines. It's clear there is disagreement and that it won't be resolved. That's fine. But for those that still have a financial interest in this matter and need to communicate, it should be their right to post as need be. Everyone else that doesn't have a stake in this needs to move on. At this point I'm only willing to let this thread continue with that in mind.

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## EdSherry

Scott -- Sorry, no flaming intended. That's why I bailed.

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## mangolin

hope everyone's holiday season has started well. #haven't posted in a while, just wanted to let everyone know that using the court judgement against him i have placed a property lien on ron's trailer and he cannot sell, rent or transfer it until he settles up with me. #obviously, that does me no good if he doesn't plan to do any of these things, but at least it's something. #it's not been too tedious a process, and at least i feel as though i have a tiny bit of hope that at some point he'll come up against this again and have to settle it. #

i know there are some people on this forum who think that ron is a divine spirit or a railroaded craftsman or something similar, so i will again repeat that i am not witch hunting (or mandolin builder hunting), and this is the first time i've ever been in a legal process like this (except for a speeding ticket when i was 19), and i wish completely that ron had finished the mando in 2 or 4 or even 6 times the amount of time he originally told me it would be finished, or just called to say he was caught in a riptide swimming back from hawaii with the koa in tow and it would take a bit longer than expected. i'm just posting here so that anyone else in this unfortunate situation has the benefit of my experience with this whole mess. #i will continue to update as the situation develops. 
karl
and yes (regarding the post below) claire contacted me too and i plan to go that route also.

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## mandroid

Boulder DA staff Claire Hunter consumer division, this morning sent Email criminal individual cases report refer to Assigned case # PO6-16600, call (303) 441 3333, case officer Craig Beckjord.
Ron is ducking and dodging at present .

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## gophertone

Does anybody know if Ron is actually doing any work on mandolins at this time? It sounds like he's in an ever growing amount of trouble for noncommunication with people who have placed orders with him.

Count me among those waiting for a Working Man's special (ordered on 12/18/2004, before I had any knowledge of the difficulties dealing with him). I've avoided legal action, but I confess I've moved on to the stage of wondering if I'll ever see an instrument or my money.

It seems to me that judgements (civil or criminal) against him combined with a poor financial situation could easily lead to him filing for bankruptcy, forcing him out of business altogether. People waiting for instruments could end up with no legal recourse, no money and no instrument. I hope that doesn't happen. I'm not trying to ruin Ron, but I fear his own actions may have done just that.

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## Rob Zamites

Thank heavens I don't do electric CBOM's. Oh, and Frank, the correct terminology is "Mon cheri". 

Cheers!

Rob

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## eastcarterman

any updates?

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## don richards

I keep check'n for any updates... I'm SURE the fires are still smoldering.... That RONO...what a guy!! #hee.. hee..  #

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## mandroid

Guess he must have gone underground, Cayman Islands?

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## mangolin

Been a while since I posted here, because I haven't had anything to say. #I am, something, I don't know, relieved, perhaps, to report that my saga with Ron is over. #The scoop is here- The Last Chapter in My Ron Oates Saga. #I want to thank the members of this community for the kindness and support you've all given me through this ordeal. #It's made it a lot easier. #I hope that this thread finds no new posters, and everyone else here can find some resolution. #
Kind Regards, Mangolin/Karl/The Frogster

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## don richards

Thank you for the UPDATE - and for exposing the evidently REAL RONO. My sympathies - and if I were a rich "picker" () hee...hee..)- I would at least #offer some compensation$$ for your dedication - and certainly your patience -though of course "misplaced" to an obvious C.R.O.O.K!!### - Again, thanks for sharing ....your loss. Good pick'n times.., and future happiness to ya' - MOOSE. # #

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## mangolin

thanks moose. your comic interjections on this thread were one of the things that helped make the burden easier. 
karl

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## frankseanez

Hey now, all y'all bloggers, floggers and goggers, and of course, Mon Sherry! Anybody outraged enough to sell me their RonO? No? I'm not surprised. They are just too sweet, aint they? But remember, when you get all revved up with indignation about old Ron Oates, you can still sell them to other folks, and get back that cleansed feeling that you had before you first held that bad, bad RonO mando!! Buy yourself a nice Fender!!

Frank Seanez

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## Dan Cole

This has to be about one of the longest and oldest threads ont his site!

What does a Rono look like?

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## mandroid

Boulder PD didn't send me a police report , so I can' take the loss off my tax return, guess the loss is still there, un compensated , I'll have to ask directly.

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## EdSherry

A RonO just showed up on the SF Bay Area Craig's list, described as "brand new." #Interesting ...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/323004459.html

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## John Rosett

Or the Denver craigslist.. http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/304855113.html.

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## mandowood

That SF Bay area post made it on to the classifieds for at least 10 minutes late last night. Pretty bold move, I'd say.

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## 250sc

Was it sold in 10 minutes or did it get pulled for another reason?

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## Scott Tichenor

There were no replies to the ad, and I didn't see it until early this morning. It was my decision to remove it and I emailed him and said I wasn't willing to deal with the headaches that would come with hosting ads for him now or in the future, and that he may want to go the eBay or another site that offers these services. And trust me, had that ad been allowed to remain there, I'd be dealing with those headaches right now.

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## 250sc

Scot,

I thought it was on craigs list??? Was it also in your classified?

I understand about the headaches. He should make good on previous contracts or refund deposits before pocketing some money for himself.

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## EdSherry

RonO is at it again on the SF Craig's List. 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/326302063.html

Interestingly, this time the ad does not mention the RonO name.

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## otterly2k

hey, at least he's selling this one C.O.D.... so the buyer gets the instrument first!

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## mandroid

Should open the box first, then hand over the check, after you know its not an empty carton .

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## Steve Cantrell

On the other hand...this could be the chance to get that mando some of you guys are owed. Just a thought.

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## mrmando

How ... pay the COD charges with a bad check?

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## mandroid

can COD checks be run back thru the D.A, ? to get paid is to receive a summons..

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## thistle3585

If you pay with a bad check what is he going to do? Take you to court? The moment he shows up in court he gets arrested. 

Mandroid, you should contact the DA and tell her you'll take the mandolin as payment. Maybe she can negotiate that.

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## Lee

If Craig's List sells RonO's mandolin, knowing he's got an outstanding summon's for reneging on a previous mandolin transaction, would Craig'sList be aiding and abetting a criminal?

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## EdSherry

The listing says COD with a money order, not a check. #In my experience, delivery services are pretty literal about only accepting the form of COD payment specified by the shipper. (If the seller specifies that the buyer must pay with a money order and UPS accepts a check that bounces, UPS is in trouble.)#

In any case, I would NOT recommend paying for it with a bad check. #That will get YOU in trouble.

Lee -- Craig's List does not "sell" anything, and I doubt that the folks who run Craig's List "know" that RonO "has an outstanding summons ..." #

In any case, as a legal matter, I would doubt that a case could be made for "aiding and abetting." #Craig's List did not "aid and abet" RonO's earlier failures to deliver. #And absent some court order, RonO is legally free to sell newly-made instruments to willing buyers. #(Whether he SHOULD do so, given that he owes instruments to people who already paid him their hard-earned money, is of course another matter entirely.)

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## mrmando

Well, if I had a list of Ron's creditors in hand, and he'd build some mandolins at cost, I would be happy to sell them on Craig's List or emando.com and use the profits to pay off the debts and help Ron repair some of the damage to his reputation. (That's what *I* think he should be doing.)

Obviously, Ron wants to build what he wants to build, whether or not it corresponds to the orders he's taken. He's entitled to his artistic freedom, but he should be paying back deposits on the instruments he isn't building. (The suggestion that Bob take the present mandolin as payment is a clever solution, but it isn't anything like what Bob ordered.)

And no, I wasn't seriously suggesting that anyone try to pay Ron with a bad check. (If you need a bad money order, I have some pals in Nigeria who can help you out ... )

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## mandroid

Having the history, I wasn't surprised that I wouldn't get a a reply when I used the Craig's list email address, CC'd Clair Hunter at Boulder DA on it , all the same .

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## EdSherry

Looks like RonO is at it again:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/335717715.html

At least this time, he acknowledges it's in Boulder, not (as with the previous listings) supposedly in San Francisco.

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## frankseanez

Kibbitzing again, Mon Sherry? To the same end, I see.

Frank

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## jmcgann

Why shouldn't a contractor (or anyone else) who takes your money and doesn't do the job go to jail ?

If I got paid in advance for a bunch of gigs (yeah, right!) and didn't show up, I believe I'd be up to my elbows in alligators...

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## Tebbie bear

> Kibbitzing again, Mon Sherry? #To the same end, I see.
> 
> Frank


How do you justify making fun of people who are being screwed over for large amounts of money?

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## Jason Kessler

Really, gents.

WAAAY too much personal attacks, both unwelcome and irrelevant, including some from people who have no vested interest whatsoever in the outcome of this issue.

Take it outside, fellas.

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## Scott Tichenor

Agreed. 

I've said this before and will say it again. If you don't have a vested financial interest in this discussion, stay out of it. A couple of recent posts are in violation of our posting guidelines and will not be tolerated further.

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## mangolin

Hi everyone-
No, I haven't REALLY given up yet.

Ron Oates is still in Boulder making mandolins, and (as pointed out earlier in this thread) selling them on craigslist. #Ron also has a court appearance on August 13th, since he was just served again yesterday.

Claire Hunter now has good addresses for him at home AND at his shop. #If Ron owes you money (or a mandolin) give her a call. #If he shows on the 13th you can have him served there while he's settling my case. #If he doesn't show, well, none of us are that much worse off than we were on August 12th. # #

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## theoud

Wow!! I did not know that Ron had so many issues with customers. Have they been resolved? 

I sent Ron money over 2 month ago for an oud, listed on craigslist.org, and I have not received my oud. I have left messages on his phone. He returned one call about a month ago which was pleasant and reassuring but I have not talked to him since.

I called the Better Business Bureau in Denver. They show a Rono Strings with an address and phone number in Boulder. The same place I sent my USPS Money Order via the Postal Service overnight with the same number I have been calling.They told me that no one has filed a complaint against Ron with them.

Will he eventually deliver? 

Other than filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, is there any thing I can do to either get my oud or my money?

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## MikeEdgerton

Sure, contact the police in the town he lives or does business in and file a complaint. Talk to your local police department as well. Read back a few messages I believe you'll find a police contact that is familiar with the man.

Folks, Please take the time to read the last message that Scott posted on this thread before before joining this discussion.

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## mandroid

Given the deposit that was paid  :Mad:   [and nothing received] , and the lack of response from anywhere in the Boulder  Colorado PD & DA, I noted some one selling a Brand new Ronno, so I just Had to as them if they knew where he was  these days , I guess it's not Bolivia?    :Confused:

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## Kid Charlemagne

I ran across a Rono advertised on Craigslist a couple months ago, and emailed the seller about it because I was curious.  Turned out to be Ron, who told me that he had several more for sale as well.

This makes me quite glad that I didn't bite for that one.  It wasn't all that nice looking anyway - one of his real basic models - but sounds like I probably would have been out a few hundred from it, anyway.

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## mangolin

so, about a year or so ago i moved across the country.  i'm finally organizing my office and i just came across my old rono stuff.  i figured i'd call claire hunter and see if she had heard anything from ron lately.  turns out that he no longer has his shop and he moved out of his trailer and currently owes his landlord over ten grand.  

i still have a bench warrant for him which i had never executed because i just didn't see the point of having him tossed in the slammer for a day or two.  i mean, he can't build me a mandolin in the joint.  claire said that she would see if the warrant was still good, but obviously if he doesn't have an address there's no way they can go pick him up.  

just wanted to let my fellow sufferers know that at this point ron not only owes people mandolins, but also lots and lots of money.  i played two of his instruments a few years ago and they were great.  it's too bad.  i mean, it's too bad what happened to my money, but i had to let that go a couple of years ago.  it's too bad what happened to ron.  if he had just delivered instruments to people he could have made a great living for himself.

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## irielivin

I met Ron Oates at the NW String Summit 2009 and purchased a mandolin from him.  I had no idea he had this kind of reputation.  

I think he had plans of coming back next year if anybody wants to catch up with him.

This is a killer venue and event anyway, well worth the trip to Oregon!

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## Larry S Sherman

> Quote removed by Moderator?


Sounds like you posted in the wrong forum...

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