# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Yet another loar

## Bob A

George G has listed another Loar F5 on his site; this one was signed the same day as Monroe's, and is offered at only 210K.

Since he's apparently overstocked, he cut the price on the other one to 190K. 

Looks like the bubbles are rising to the surface . . . better get off the Loar bandwagon before it's too late. Remember, you read it here first.

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## mrmando

I'm waiting for the Loar market to crash ... I'll move in and pick them all up when they're back down to 140K.

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## danb

The July 9 for sale at Gruhn is exceptional. Unbelievable condition and tone, I've met it in person

July 9 # 73994

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## Bernie Daniel

Oh for Pete's sake - and I had just saved up $194K for a 2003 Ferrari 360 SPIDER -- now I'll have to make another decision. Not.

I notice that the headstock binding is very thin on that mandolin -- from the thumbnails it looked unbound -- isn't that unusual?

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## danb

It's side-bound, which is indeed unusual (though not for this particular date)

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## Kevin K

If only we had bought it 5+ years ago, look at the return we could have now. Wow.

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## fatt-dad

So having a Virzi is a $20,000 liability? Just wondering. . . .

f-d

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## sgarrity

The Virzi isn't a liability. But the fact that it's side bound and signed on July 9th are probably a $20k premium.

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## kudzugypsy

i think its been said here many times that the side-bound July 9's are the top of the top as far as collectibility (collectibility..not *best ones*)...and the 24 Virzi's are sort of the "bottom" of the collectibiltiy range - so you have the spread here - and Gruhn is usually up on all this.
that July 9 is just in AMAZING condition - i'm thinking some big collector is dumping his stash right now and taking the money - if you follow these things, you will also see FOUR pre-war FLATHEAD banjos - one an original 5- these all came in the same week, so...thats my guess.

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## dryseptember

i was just wondering, why the difference in price between the one at larry Wexers 145K and these at Gruhns? I would think the lower priced one would get snatched up right away at such an appariant "bargin".

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## sgarrity

What does an original 5 string flathead sell for? I've never followed the banjo market much and am just curious.

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## cooper4205

> What does an original 5 string flathead sell for? I've never followed the banjo market much and am just curious.


the Vintage Guitar price guide has the Gibson RB-4 (33-37, Flathead) priced from $75,000 to $125,000. heck the TB-3's from 33-39 are priced $50,000 to $70,000 according to them.

the 1933-39 Flathead Granada's go from $135k-$200k and the Tenor Banjo Granada of same vintage is priced in the $100,000 to $150,000 range. that's alot of money for an old banjo

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## earthsave

I'll take two or none.

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## 64lusso

The one at Larry's has a virzi and has a good bit of finish wear and I think Larry tends to be very fair in his pricing. I visited with him last week while in NYC and got to play that one as well as his personal favorite which I think is '12/1/24 never had a virzi' and the June 13/23 with a Gilchrist refin, the latter is priced at 90,000 and sounds great, might be the best deal out there for someone with a few extra $ wanting to get into Loar ownership to play one and not let it sit in the closet

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## dryseptember

If I had an extra 90K I think i would have a hard time choosing between the refin loar or the original 26fern on ebay. Oh, for an extra 100K!! or for and extra 1K for that matter.

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## cooper4205

who said you can't find Loar on eBay?

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## mrmando

Try this link. This one's from Ken Waltham. 

Of course, Hank Risan's is worth three times that much ...

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## f5loar

Add $15,000 to that $210,000 and you can get a July 9th '23 Loar played by Ricky Skaggs at Gruhn's. It's not what you know but WHO you know! Personally I think these rare July 9th reverse binding Loars are way underpriced at $225,000.
It only takes one engine detail in a vintage car to boost the price considerably.

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## Glassweb

There seem to be only 16 or so side-bound July 9th Loar F5s from what I can tell. So to Bob A at the beginning of this thread... I think you may be underestimating the staying power of "The Stradivarius of Mandolins". If anything I expect Loar F5s are about to take another jump in value. There are very few clean, original Loars out there... way too many have been booger'd, batter'd and bondo'd! I expect clean 20s Ferns will soon move up as well.

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## kudzugypsy

WOW - loar shoppers have never had it so good (at least supply wise) - we have at least 6 fine loars up for sale now from a refins $100K #all the way up to a pair of side-bounds at $225K each - plus as many ferns.

what is so interesting for those that follow pre-war instruments, is that there are now about ten 20's F-5s for sale (loars & ferns), nearly the same number of original 30's flathead banjos...and not a single 30's Martin D-28 to be found for sale... and these were far more common than either f5's or flatheads. just my opinion is that the market for the F5s has jumped up too fast (they are doubling every 3-4 years) and so folks are considering selling, while the market for pre-war martins has not yet peaked.

- so the question has really always been - and what better place to discuss this - will the next generation of mandolin players ever get one of these instruments, or will they from here on be held in private equity funds for investors who dont care what the money is invested in as long as they can get a 25% return. there seems to be A LOT of press lately, even from the Wall St journal that most, if not all of these $100K+++ instruments are going to money managers of private equity funds, much the way the high end art market has been for the last 25 years.

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## mrmando

Last week I had to go to the emergency room because I thought I had broken my toe. On the coffee table in the waiting area was a catalog for some high-end auction house in Atlanta that I've forgotten the name of. IIRC, a 1943 D-45 and a D-28 of similar vintage were listed. "During the war" still counts as "prewar," don't it?

I dunno how many people in the ER waiting area at midnight in a Seattle suburb are going to bid on expensive estate items in Atlanta, but there you have it. 

My toe wasn't really broken.

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## markishandsome

Has anyone else ever noticed how Loar owners always talk about how undervalued their instruments are and non-Loar-owners always say they're about to crash? Everyone sees what they want to see I guess

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## f5loar

Depends on if you are a bull or a bear on how you feel about the market. Bulls have got it to get it while bears ain't got it they are sleeping!
Generally if a collector type person is selling he has another one in the works that they want better then the one they are selling.

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## fwoompf

> The July 9 for sale at Gruhn is exceptional. Unbelievable condition and tone, I've met it in person
> 
> July 9 # 73994


Is that the original finish on that?  Holy cow!

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## Glassweb

The finish is original and quite clean...

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## ellisppi

In the archive, 73994 has a tailpiece with a special engraved border, where'd that tailpiece go?

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## Darryl Wolfe

> In the archive, 73994 has a tailpiece with a special engraved border, where'd that tailpiece go?

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## 12 fret

To illustrate the extreme, Go to Ebay, enter the search term "Loar", and you will find one offered in the Stores section from Museum of Musical Instruments (??) for a mere $675,000 ( or best offer). He's turned down 4 offers . I'd love to know what they were

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## Mike Herlihy

Interesting interview with Stan and George on NPR about guitar/mandolin prices

Stan & George Interview

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## danb

> Interesting interview with Stan and George on NPR about guitar/mandolin prices
> 
> Stan & George Interview


Thanks, an interesting listen.

George & Stan both make a salient point in that audio clip about the price of Loars. 

There were only a couple hundred, and they sound nice.

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## dryseptember

the interview with george and stan was cool, can't quite tell if the opinion is the market is moving up or if it has started to dip though. good points were made. 
I count six Loars and two ferns. are there any other ferns out there for sale?

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## kudzugypsy

i think if your in the market for a Loar and have the $$$$ - that now may be the only time that you have this kind of selection - others can add if this has happened before, but in the 20 years i've been watching, i have never seen so many for sale at one time - and the range of conditions & features gives an interesting price spread...nearly $125K from the lowest to highest.

that July 23 batch IS really special - they all sound great from that batch, you cant go wrong with one of them sound wise and collectibility/investment wise.

there is an old saying in the vintage market that is 99% true (up til this point at least) - "you can pay too much TOO SOON, but never too much over time"

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## Darryl Wolfe

Dan and I count eight for sale at the moment. There are probably a few in the hands of individuals that are not being advertised also.

The price range is indeed interesting as the refins are $90-$110, the basic and average Loars with some honest wear ringing in at $145-$165K, and the somewhat special ones (July 9, Fern Loars ect) at $190-$225K

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## f5loar

Decisions, decisions, decisions!!! What must one do!
Get a nice picker's dream for mere 90,000 or go after the big one for 225,000. Buyers market out there today which ever route you go.

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## kudzugypsy

OK WHO DID IT???

BOTH JULY 9's at Gruhn are GONE...there yesterday - ricky's didnt last long at $225K

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## ellisppi

They still got the one I want

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## f5loar



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## Darryl Wolfe

My sources say Ricky sold his top bound July 9 to buy the side bound one. That means he has two side bound July 9's now. It also means that two july 9's just went for over $210K

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## carleshicks

boy am I glad i have a Derrington Because At this rate I will never be able to save up enough for a Loar.

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## Darryl Wolfe

Well, my source did not prove out correct, or something happened later. Ricky's is simply off the market.

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## dryseptember

Did the fern sell? I just looked at Gruhns and i didn't see it. I was really wishing it would be there for 20 years so i would have the time to save up.

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## 12 fret

This is a little above my raisin', but when I see notes like the July 9th are great and July 23rd's are special, it sounds like the intervening 80 years don't matter. Can two instruments stored, played and maintained differently for 80 years still be judged by their sign date? Didn't Loar use the same criteria for all he signed?

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## Darryl Wolfe

Certain groups of mandos simply are different for what ever reason. #The particular wood they had that month or some other nuance that comes into play.

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## markishandsome

I don't think anyone knows what "criteria" Lloyd used. We don't even know at what stage of construction the labels were signed. Even if he did use some set of minimum standards before he let the F5s out the door, the batches collectors consider special today would have met them.

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## Glassweb

The Fern Loar that was on Gruhn's list has indeed been sold.

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