# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Gibson (Bozeman '92) A-5G

## Brent Hutto

I'm buying the A-5G that was listed today in the classifieds. Didn't do a lot of "due diligence" so all I really knew was A-5 is my favorite type of mandolin, a Gibson A-5 will be fun to complement my Mike Black A-5 and the Gibsons made in Bozeman during the late 80's and early 90's are well regarded. Mine's from 1992 and it has a Carlson signature, considered desirable I gather.

So I'll see it in a few days but in the meanwhile I'd love to read any comments someone might like to share about that model. Doubt I'm going to love the mean, tiny frets. Expect I will love the sound. And it'll be very different all around from my year-old Mike Black A-5, don't you think?  :Cool:

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

When I saw the A5G popped up today I thought to myself 'this will go fast'. I just didn't know how fast  :Smile:  

A Carlson signed A5 is always well regarded and I think this will be no exception. I think you got yourself a good deal there Brent. Looking forward to pics and vids and the whole nine yard. 

Congrats

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## Brent Hutto

Yeah, I had the same thought when I saw the ad. I'd recently sold a guitar, an octave mandolin and a couple of small knick-knacks so the timing was great. In my limited experience, stuff in the Classifieds seems to either sell really quick or really slow without much in between. No way this was going to be a slow one.

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## northfolk

I had a 1998 Gibson A5 a while back;  several years now I guess?  You are correct that it will have the very thin frets;  not really a problem for me?  The biggest adjustment for me was the very narrow nut/fretboard.  The sound however was fantastic;  makes me wonder why I sold it?????  It must have been MAS, again?   :Mandosmiley:  :Coffee:

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## dcoventry

Hey Brent,

Good grab on that one, fo' sure. NOW, there is a guy in the Classifieds that wants to trade an A5 for a Weber Yellowstone. Get on that one dude and triple your money. THEN, play the stock market becuase you will be on a roll!

Your Pal,

Dave C.

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## rico mando

i have a April 22  1991 carlson singed a-5g . its great but mine does have the thick coat finish they experimented with for a short time . seems to bring out the bottom end . already had a refret and it was changed to a larger fret size . and i scooped the florida . i bought mine new back in 93 ish its my favorite and my first real mando . if you have any questions pm me . can not see me ever selling mine . i do have a sawchyn and an 02 F-9

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## fatt-dad

After having my Flatiron for a year or so (1984 model, work done about 7 years ago), I sent it to Lou Stiver and he did a compound radius and wider frets for me.  Great work, quick and priced easy on the pocket.

I look forward to seeing photos and know that you'll love it for sure!

f-d

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## Brent Hutto

f-d,

While I'm waiting here's a teaser, courtesy of the seller.

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## birdman98

I think you got a REALLY great deal, Brent!  Every Carlson-signed mando I have played has been very strong.

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## Brent Hutto

Anyone have links to a photo or description of the best angle for a strap button (on the treble-side of the neck heel) so as to miss running into that bolt that's inside the joint? 

I had a guitar with a bolt-on neck once but fortunately there was just enough depth of wood to get the screw in there without hitting metal.

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## fatt-dad

I always tie to the peghead.  No clue about strap pins.

f-d

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## Mike Black

> Anyone have links to a photo or description of the best angle for a strap button (on the treble-side of the neck heel) so as to miss running into that bolt that's inside the joint? 
> 
> I had a guitar with a bolt-on neck once but fortunately there was just enough depth of wood to get the screw in there without hitting metal.


Check out this thread...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-strap-on-an-A

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## Brent Hutto

I did find these pictures in Trevor's archives...




Indicating that at or just above the 12th fret seems an OK spot on that '96 Bozeman A-5G. Of course he may have still had to use a shorty screw.

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## rico mando

i tie my strap in at the neck heel . goes right underneath the bridge extension

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## Brent Hutto

I didn't necessarily put it together when I saw the ad for this A-5G but there's a sort-of connection between it and my favorite guitar, the one I like so well I got rid of all my other guitars...

In 1992 when this A-5G was made and Steve Carlson was running the Bozeman mandolin operation, John Walker was just up the road at the Gibson acoustic guitar shop. John is the maker of my "Lolo Creek #008" which was built many years later in 2006 at the current J. Walker shop in Petty Creek, MT.

There's some kind of Montana Mojo that keeps sending instruments my way. I'll say if the A-5G is half as good a mandolin as my "Lolo Creek" is a guitar it will be with me a long time.

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...
> While I'm waiting here's a teaser, courtesy of the seller.


Brent;
What a beauty! Congratulations.
Glad I found this thread.
I can wait to hear a clip, and maybe an A/B comparison of the Gibson & your Black?
Again, congratulations.

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## Brett Byers

> In 1992 when this A-5G was made and Steve Carlson was running the Bozeman mandolin operation, John Walker was just up the road at the Gibson acoustic guitar shop. John is the maker of my "Lolo Creek #008" which was built many years later in 2006 at the current J. Walker shop in Petty Creek, MT.
> 
> There's some kind of Montana Mojo that keeps sending instruments my way. I'll say if the A-5G is half as good a mandolin as my "Lolo Creek" is a guitar it will be with me a long time.


John builds some fantastic guitars.  I'd hold on to that one forever!

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## Brent Hutto

> John builds some fantastic guitars.  I'd hold on to that one forever!


Yeah, Brett. If was a sure sign I was hooked when I quit playing my classical-guitar stuff on the nylon-stringer because I liked it better on the Lolo Creek. And it sounds marvelous with a flat pick which is what I bought it for in the first place.

Darndest instrument. It was't quite the body shape I was looking for, the neck shape was different than I wanted, the width and string spacing weren't to my favorite specs...yet after 30 minutes with it I totally quit playing my other guitars and haven't looked back. It's when I learned you don't play a spec sheet, you play the actual instrument.

I've gotta find my way out west one of these summers and see where all of these great instruments come from. Must be something in the air or water out there.

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## ccravens

Hey Brent,

Thanks again for the tailpiece. Glad I could help fund your new mando purchase.

I have a Carlson '84 Flatiron A-Jr. that I think has great sound. Even with light-gauged strings it has a mighty chop, clear highs, and sounds awesome. I'm thinking of putting the tailpiece on it (or my 'zouk)

I'm not sure how to post soundclips, or I would.

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## Brent Hutto

That's cool, Chris. The small-world effect continues! So if my Gibson-speak is correct an A-Jr. is an oval hole, short necked one right?

The soundclip thing is kind of weird. You have to reply to a topic, click the <Go Advanced> box under the reply and then go through a process from there that lets you upload a sound file from your computer. Etc., etc. Took me forever to figure out how to navigate it.

Mine's on the UPS truck at the moment which means it'll get here some time between noon and maybe 8PM. I'm hoping sooner rather than later.

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## Markus

I saw that one and felt a strong desire for more spending money, Brent ... glad you got it!

I hope you have many enjoyable years together.

Regarding the strap button, I had one put into my Breedlove's neck [bolt on] and had them follow the directions for the button location provided by the maker [http://breedlovemusic.com/resources/...-install.html]. 

That all said, not sure if they are located in the same location on a Gibson ... but it's a start.

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## Brent Hutto

Markus,

Thanks for that link. It may be that Breedlove's neck area has a bit more wood than my Gibsons but when it comes I'll see if those measurements lead me into a likely-looking spot. 

I had a button installed for me on my first guitar and we knew there was some hardware in there. The guitar tech just drilled the pilot hole real slowly and as it turned out we just touched metal at the same depth as need for the screw. He said if the metal had been shallower we could have just used a slightly shorter screw. But still, best to dodge it all together if possible.

I'm also going to use a magnet to feel around a bit and see if I can detect the bolt(s).

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## fatt-dad

> <snip>So if my Gibson-speak is correct an A-Jr. is an oval hole, short necked one right?
> <bigger snip>


The A5-jr is a typical 15 fret neck, f-hole, a-model mandolin with parallel tone bars. In the same year they also had the A5-1 and fancier A5-2, which were identical (mostly) but with x-braced tone bars.

f-d

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## birdman98

> Hey Brent,
> 
> Thanks again for the tailpiece. Glad I could help fund your new mando purchase.
> 
> I have a Carlson '84 Flatiron A-Jr. that I think has great sound. Even with light-gauged strings it has a mighty chop, clear highs, and sounds awesome. I'm thinking of putting the tailpiece on it (or my 'zouk)
> 
> I'm not sure how to post soundclips, or I would.


Hey Chris....I sold that mandolin to you.  How's it treating ya?  Sounds like the top stabilized?  I REALLY miss that little monster!

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## Bill Van Liere

f-d speaks the truth as always, love those A-Jrs. I use lighter strings on mine also (GHS A250) with chop o'plenty, but I usually use it for Celtic stuff.

good luck with the A-5G Brent, I have seen a few good'uns over at Elderly.

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## fatt-dad

I use the EXP-74s on my A5-1.  Love the A250s on my pancake though!

f-d

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## Chuck Naill

> I'm buying the A-5G that was listed today in the classifieds.:


Just saw this Brent, sorry to be late in sending my congratulations.

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## Brent Hutto

Well, everyone, it's here! Arrived in good shape and I unboxed and opened it up out on the front porch since it had been riding around in a hot UPS truck for 12 hours today.

Too early to tell much about the sound until it acclimates but I do know I like it. Hopefully tomorrow evening I can do a quick recording or video clip to show it off. Bill said I could send it back if I didn't like it but that ain't a-gonna happen. Especially since I went ahead and put a shiny new strap button on the neck.

P.S. to Chuck: In the end, the idea of an oval-hole couldn't win out over the fact I just love me some ff-hole A-5's.  :Grin: 

P.P.S. Just a quickie snapshot of it hanging around in its new home (with its new strap).

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## Chuck Naill

Beautiful, Brent. Enjoy!! :Wink:

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## Brent Hutto

Looks like my enjoyment will be put off for a while. I just did some that in retrospect must have been stupid. I noticed the bridge was leaning slightly forward. So without letting off the string tension I gave it a little push to see if it would straighten up. Not exactly.

Saddle portion of the bridge snapped in two right under the D strings. And of course these things always happen with a holiday coming up. I'll bet it's at least two or three weeks before I play another note on it. Kind of ruined my day, to be honest.

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## fatt-dad

this has happened to me too.  Bummer. . .

f-d

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## Chuck Naill

> Looks like my enjoyment will be put off for a while. I just did some that in retrospect must have been stupid. I noticed the bridge was leaning slightly forward. So without letting off the string tension I gave it a little push to see if it would straighten up. Not exactly.
> 
> Saddle portion of the bridge snapped in two right under the D strings. And of course these things always happen with a holiday coming up. I'll bet it's at least two or three weeks before I play another note on it. Kind of ruined my day, to be honest.


Turn this into an opportunity to learn how to set up the mandolin yourself. Order a Cumberland Accoustic bridge that matches the fretboard in case your's is curved. Get some on line advice or tutorials, take your time, and you will be proud you did.

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## Brent Hutto

My buddy Lou fitted a Cumberland bridge to his "The Loar" and tells me it's a matter of patience as much as skill. I'll get hold of the bridge and then get Lou to come over and explain how he does it. 

Since I can't get a bridge until next week some time I'm also thinking about trying to fabricate just the saddle half that's broken and temporarily put it on top of the existing bridge bottom. The hard part would be drilling those two 0.110" holes absolutely square in each end for the adjustment screws.

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## Chuck Naill

> My buddy Lou fitted a Cumberland bridge to his "The Loar" and tells me it's a matter of patience as much as skill. I'll get hold of the bridge and then get Lou to come over and explain how he does it. 
> 
> Since I can't get a bridge until next week some time I'm also thinking about trying to fabricate just the saddle half that's broken and temporarily put it on top of the existing bridge bottom. The hard part would be drilling those two 0.110" holes absolutely square in each end for the adjustment screws.


I know you are eagar to play, but just be careful. I learned a trick of just tighening the two othermost strings to set the string height you prefer and set intoneation. You will do just fine. It is good that you have someone you know near by to watch the first time. I just Googled and went from there. 

While you are waiting you might also consider slicking up those f holes. :Whistling:

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## Brent Hutto

Ah, the old port-and-polish job! Vrroom, vrroom...

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## Stephen Perry

> Since I can't get a bridge until next week some time I'm also thinking about trying to fabricate just the saddle half that's broken and temporarily put it on top of the existing bridge bottom. The hard part would be drilling those two 0.110" holes absolutely square in each end for the adjustment screws.


An easy method is to glue the old one back together and use it as a guide for drilling the holes in the new stock.  Square and size the blank, clamp both up at once in the drill press vice, then run the bit through the holes on the original to drill the new.  If everything is square the fit ends up perfect.  Then shape the remaining parts in the usual manner, keeping everything square.  Doesn't take long - there's not much wood in a bridge!

Enjoy!!

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## Brent Hutto

> Then shape the remaining parts in the usual manner, keeping everything square.  Doesn't take long - there's not much wood in a bridge!


Yeah, that's the problem. If it had about twice as much wood it probably wouldn't have broken in the first place.

Thanks for the procedure, Steve. That sounds doable if I need to fabricate one. Hopefully the one my friend brings over today will be the right size for a drop-in replacement.

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## Chuck Naill

> Ah, the old port-and-polish job! Vrroom, vrroom...


I think Steve at Cumbland will sell you direct. Might want to call. He has a nice web site.

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## fatt-dad

If the bridge is fine, just buy a new bridge and swap out the saddle.  No need to fit anything to the existing arch - you already have it from the original.

f-d

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## Brent Hutto

Yep, I'm hoping for a saddle swap and avoid a couple hours of tedious fit-work. 

Lou G. is bringing a saddle from his "The Loar" around later today and I just had a Cumberland Acoustics bridge FedEx'd from Elderly for Saturday delivery. So surely (???) one of those two saddles with fit. But the original one that's on there seems to have an unusual spacing on the posts so we'll see...

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## Brent Hutto

An update for those of you keeping score at home...

Sure enough the post spacing on my A-5G's bridge is non-standard. Different than the 2.250" used by Randy Wood, different than the 2.275" used by Steve Smith, different from the 2.28-something on the old bridge Lou found in his spare-parts drawer.

FedEx just brough my CA bridge but man, oh man it's going to need a bunch of wood removed. The the middle isn't nearly nigh enough for the large arch on my soundboard. And the overall height is quite a bit higher than what's needed for my neck angle. So I'd need to do some heavy carving/sanding/whatever to shape the bridge base and probably shave down the underside of the saddle a bit as well.

Second choice, which is really what I did first. With help from Lou I think we've salvaged the rosewood saddle from that came on his LM-600. We elongated the post holes about 0.025"-0.030" each so the saddle now slides on and off my post nicely without too much "slop" once it is on. Then I shaved down (with a Frank Ford-esque Case knife) the ends of the saddle that sit atop the adjusters to get the action low enough. Also tried to square them up with sandpaper on a hardwood block but they aren't quite square yet.

So I strung it up with the original bridge, whose feet fit my top admirably. And then the bodged saddle on top. Got it intonated and adjusted to about 0.050" action on each side. It sounds marvelous now, even with the strings that were on it when I recieved it which have been tuned and detuned half a dozen times now. I'm inclined to use it as is and just hold onto my CA bridge. I wouldn't be surprised if the much-abused saddle eventually cracks somewhere but in the mean while it fits perfectly, adjusts easily and sounds good. I think I ought to play the heck out of it as long as it lasts.

Lou is on his way over to give his approval (or not) to the final result...

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## Brent Hutto

All's well that ends. Here's a video clip of it with the original bridge-base, bodged rosewood LM-600 saddle and some harsh-sounding new Elixir light-gauge strings.

There's a companion video of the same tune excerpt on my Mike Black A-5 #10 and strangely enough they both sound like me playing.

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## Jeff Budz

Glad you got the bridge situation resolved, sounds very nice.  I agree that it sounds similar to the Mike Black clip, I was curious, were you expecting a different sound?  Were you just looking for something older and Gibson?  My collecting (as limited as it is so far) has been to experiment with different sounds (Oval, F-Hole, Mandola, Octave), not sure I would want 2 mandolins of similar style and quality range.  

I like the look of the A5G, and the F5G, I'm a sucker for an unbound fingerboard.  I'm drawn to the less fancy aesthetics, although I do like some nice figured maple.  How do the back and sides look?

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## Brent Hutto

Jeff,

I'll grab a couple of photos and post as soon as I get a chance. The figure on the back is pretty nice as far as I can tell but this lot of Bozeman Gibsons had a two-layer finish (something like a poly sealer than nitro on top) and a rather dark stain which really obscures the grain. They could have used plain wood and it wouldn't have mattered but looks likes there's actually some pretty maple under all that stuff. I also like unbound fingerboards, not sure why. My guitar and my other mandolin are both bound and that's cool but if it were me building one I'd leave it off.

About your other question, it's a quirky thing. I'd come thiiiiiis close to getting a short-neck oval hole A4-type to complement my main squeeze A-5. But when it came time to pull the trigger it was like "Hey wait a minute, I like the ff-hole sound way better". What I wanted out of a second instrument was something less delicate and less expensive to have along when I travel and something with a smaller neck (the Mike Black one is 1-1/4" and moderately chunky) just for a different feel. Then this one came along and I couldn't resist overshooting the mark a bit. It's nicer than what I had in mind.

Other than the bad-luck saddle problem it's perfect. The narrow neck makes playing tricky melody parts cleanly pretty tought. But it makes chording so much easier, especially involving the G strings. And the sound really is somewhat different although it's kind of subtle. Plus it is extremely small and light. And the original hard case is scuffed up just enough to make it unattractive to strangers when I'm out and about!

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## vates

What is the regular nut width on these?

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## allenhopkins

> What is the regular nut width on these?


You are aware that this is a four-year-old thread...?

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## vates

Sure. However, it is the first thread that appears in google search re. this model. And this question was not disclosed herein previously. So maybe it will be useful not only for me but also for other players. Cheers!

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## allenhopkins

> ...this question was not disclosed herein previously. So maybe it will be useful not only for me but also for other players. Cheers!


Also useful would be a Google search that led to *this Reverb listing,* which mentions a "1 1/16 inch nut."

Cheers, back at ya.

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## vates

Thanks, Allen. The almighty Google gave me all over the place results. Ranging from 1 1/16" through 1 3/32" to 1 1/8".
I guess depending on the quality of the calipers used  :Smile: 
So maybe here the truth will be finally revealed.

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