# Music by Genre > Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance >  Wee reference list

## Eugene

I gave a little lecture demonstration yesterday as part of the University of Cincinnati, College-Conservatory of Music's 30th annual Classical Guitar Workshop.  It's a popular event that attracts faculty from all over the Americas and both avid amateurs and undergraduate students as attendees.  My ulterior motive was to interest more guitarists in actually pursuing mandolin and the "classical" repertoire for the instrument.  I distributed the attached as a handout, am likely to continue to distribute it as the opportunity arises, and would appreciate any editorial commentary you fine folk would care to provide.




If any of you happen to be in the Cincinnati, OH area at the time, my duo partner Karl and I will be opening Saturday night's concert at 8 pm with a very brief set of two pieces of romantic-era chamber fluff (by Aperte and Cannas, which I suspect many of you play as well).

----------

Bill Clements, 

Bob Clark, 

Chris Berardi, 

DougC, 

John McCoy, 

Marty Jacobson

----------


## Eugene

One obvious and unfortunate oversight among methods is Lichtenberg's (relatively) new DVD.  I will amend immediately.

----------

Jim Garber

----------


## Jim Garber

Hey Eugene: That is some "wee" reference. I would say more than that, pretty exhaustive. Thanks for posting it.

----------


## Eugene

Thanks, Jim.  The ever-generous Dave Cohen took the time to point out some linguistic carelessness in the original.  A slightly edited version is here attached.  Obviously, from post-2:30 yesterday, the header material no longer applies.

----------

Bob Clark, 

Jacob

----------


## Martin Jonas

Very nice list -- thanks, Eugene.  It made me have a quick look online for the mandolin works by Arrigoni.  I drew a blank at the usual music score sites, but stumbled upon the Eminor Sonata at a French lute site that I had not previously encountered.  I attach it here for future reference.

Mind you, the editor of that score doesn't share your opinion of Arrigoni, saying: "_In his surviving music Arrigoni is revealed as a composer of modest ability. His instrumental music is saturated with conventional figuration and organized into shortwinded periods of sequences, voice-exchanges, frequent cadences and literal repetitions of small units. His arias often seem to be constructed of brief, unrelated phrases, which awkwardly return to a few pitches and thus lack directional flow. Perhaps his relative success as a composer was due to his mastery of fashionable stylistic conventions rather than to the real worth of his music._"

Martin

----------

Bob Clark, 

Eugene

----------


## Eugene

Well, when we're talking mandolin, it's all relative, eh?  Certainly, Arrigoni's mandolin works are no more trite than Vivaldi's and certainly not as sophisticated as the one sonata left us by Sammartini . . . but they sound good.  Look for the performance of the E minor sonata by Paul O'Dette on the album Capritio by the band Tragicomedia.

----------


## Eugene

The "other" E minor sonata, that is.  Looking over this one, it's not one with which I'm familiar.

----------


## Martin Jonas

Oh, I see -- I was just checking the time signature to see whether it's the D or the E minor sonata, these being the ones I could find referenced.  Looking closer, I think this one is actually in G major, not E minor.

Martin

----------


## margora

Hi Eugene,

A very nice and carefully done list that will prove very useful for its main purpose.   I would suggest adding Marga Wilden-Husgen's, Technical Studies for Mandolin, which are (in my opinion) very important (and widely used).   You might also consider adding more contemporary composers as well.

----------


## Eugene

Thanks, Bob.  Which contemporary composers do you feel have a substantial enough body of mandolin repertoire to reference?  There are plenty of some obscurity or with a piece or two.

. . . and some pretty serious oversights on my part were Mahler (jheesh!); Cafe's own regular, the most excellent Mr. John Craton (jheesh!); and Crumb.  By way of excuse, this was compiled pretty hastily.

----------


## Eugene

I wish I could delete previous versions to reduce clutter (feel free to do so yourself if you'd like, Scott or moderator du jour).  I can't, so here's the latest:

----------


## margora

"Thanks, Bob. Which contemporary composers do you feel have a substantial enough body of mandolin repertoire to reference?"

On the non-specialist side, I would say Boulez, Carter, Henze (especially), and Krenek.  On the specialist side, the list is potentially longer and I shall give it more thought.

One other general comment: unless I missed it, your handout does not mention the use of the classical guitar in mandolin orchestras.   In the contemporary (post-1945) literature for mandolin orchestra, there are many substantial, well written parts for classical guitar, especially by Australian and German composers.   This is not the case in the "Golden Age" literature, which used to be the standard repertoire among American groups (the Providence Mandolin Orchestra being an exception), or else guitar wasn't used -- but this is very much changing in the US, and outside of the US, classical guitar plays an integral role in mandolin ensemble music.  I am sure you would agree that classical guitarists generally get very little experience playing with a conductor; guitar orchestras help a bit with this but, in my experience,no where near to the extent as is the case with a mandolin orchestra.

----------


## Eugene

Good points, all.  I think those composers you list certainly could be considered to qualify as "major."  I only know of one work each for mandolin by Carter and Henze, two by Boulez, and three by Krenek.  Am I missing any?

Regarding specialist composers, the field is potentially so large for so marginal an instrument, it's hard to have a good sense for what will persist.  One I was tempted to include was Mandonico, but I just don't know the kind of staying power his music will have.

The little handout made very little mention of mandolin orchestras at all, certainly not of instrumentation from the orchestral perspective.  Where mandolin orchestras were mentioned, it was only from the perspective of the role of mandolin-related instruments.  Still, your point of guitar having a role in such ensembles may be relevant if the goal is to remain outreach to guitarists.

A personal aside: I've tried to get close to Henze, but have never managed to understand the appeal . . . and I actually like long, atonal works.  The three-movement work with mandolin--Carillon, etc.--probably constitute my favorite work of those I've heard by Henze, and I'm pretty indifferent about it.  Listening to his Royal Winter Music sonatas, it's really hard for me to understand why I should want to hear them.  To me, they are overly long and smack of excessive compositional self indulgence.

----------


## margora

"Listening to his Royal Winter Music sonatas, it's really hard for me to understand why I should want to hear them. To me, they are overly long and smack of excessive compositional self indulgence."

LOL.  There you go.   IMHO, the Royal Winter Music sonatas are the most important modern works, by far, for the classical guitar (the 1st sonata more than the second).  More important than the Nocturnal, and I think the Nocturnal is a very great, very deep work, one of Britten's best in any medium.

Regarding Henze's use of the mandolin, I think there are at least nine of his works that use the mandolin (there is a partial list in Sparks).  Boulez, at least two, possibly more.  Not sure about Carter, but the relevant piece is superb. 

"The little handout made very little mention of mandolin orchestras at all, certainly not of instrumentation from the orchestral perspective. Where mandolin orchestras were mentioned, it was only from the perspective of the role of mandolin-related instruments. Still, your point of guitar having a role in such ensembles may be relevant if the goal is to remain outreach to guitarists."

Your Ohio-area colleague makes this very point in an interview that he gave in the Mandolin Quarterly some years ago.

"Regarding specialist composers, the field is potentially so large for so marginal an instrument, it's hard to have a good sense for what will persist. One I was tempted to include was Mandonico, but I just don't know the kind of staying power his music will have."

True enough, but your list includes Leonardi, Marucelli, Pace, and Pettine and it is hard, IMHO, to argue their music has staying power.  Mandonico was not whom I had in mind, either.

----------


## Eugene

Perhaps too far afield, but I share your opinion of Nocturnal.  I think Maw's music of memory is up there too . . . or should be.  I'm also quite fond of many of Dyens works, but more for their technical interest than musical.

I think I might remove Leonardi, Marucelli, and Pace.  I debated including them and only did because they are either oft recorded (and thus likely to be encountered) or had some prominence in the mainstream in their day.  While I appreciate Pettine's prolific contributions, I don't tend to think of his music as particularly substantive.  Even the concerto strikes me mostly as a simple stream of romantic-era aesthetic notions.

----------


## margora

"Perhaps too far afield, but I share your opinion of Nocturnal. I think Maw's music of memory is up there too . . . or should be. I'm also quite fond of many of Dyens works, but more for their technical interest than musical."

"Music of Memory" would be very (very) high on my list too.   Roland, btw, has written for the mandolin, and since most contemporary classical guitarists will be very familiar with him, I think you might consider adding him.

"I think I might remove Leonardi, Marucelli, and Pace. I debated including them and only did because they are either oft recorded (and thus likely to be encountered) or had some prominence in the mainstream in their day. While I appreciate Pettine's prolific contributions, I don't tend to think of his music as particularly substantive. Even the concerto strikes me mostly as a simple stream of romantic-era aesthetic notions."

The fundamental musical problem with almost all music for mandolin written in the first half of the twentieth century (or ca. 1900) is that it was 50-100 years out of date when it was written (the obvious exceptions being Schoenberg and a few others).  Music can be written "out of period" and survive (Calace is a good example in the mandolin world), but it is the exception rather than the rule.   Contemporary music for mandolin makes use of modern composition idioms -- it is "of period" -- and for that reason, IMHO, the best of it is more likely to survive.

Among the many relevant contemporary composers, I would lobby for adding Yoshinao Kobayashi to your list (his music is certainly among the most frequently performed by the best young players in Europe).  His music has the same overall quality and structural integrity of Neil Gladd's (whose pieces I like a great deal and have performed) but there is more of it. Also of the same quality is Pedro Chamorro.  For historical reasons, you might list Gal and Sprongl.

----------


## Eugene

. . . and the Tansman passacaglia in spite of its unabashedly retro approach.

----------


## margora

Addenum: to the above I would add that the great problem of the mandolin during the first half of the twentieth century was that it had no Segovia to champion it.  Segovia brought the classical guitar into the 20th century, initiating its transition into the musical mainstream.  In the United States, classical mandolinists kept playing the same music, year after year (a good example is Munier, "Capriccio Spagnulo".  It is astonishing how frequently this piece was played.  It is the mandolin's version of "Asturias" or "Recuerdos"); there was little interest in engaging the wider musical world, certainly not composers.

Also: Anton Webern is a possible addition to non-specialist composers.

----------


## Chris Berardi

Forgive my ignorance, but what are specialist composers and non-specialist composers?

----------


## margora

A non-specialist composer would be someone from outside the mandolin world (typically well outside), like Mahler or Henze, or Benjamin Britten in the case of the guitar, who included the mandolin in a composition.  A specialist composer would be a composer-performer, like Kuwahara or Calace.  The distinction is more of a continuum than a sharp divide.  An example from the guitar world would be Manuel Ponce, who is known today mostly for his works for classical guitar, but who wrote much other non-guitar music.

----------

Chris Berardi

----------


## Eugene

> The fundamental musical problem with almost all music for mandolin written in the first half of the twentieth century (or ca. 1900) is that it was 50-100 years out of date when it was written (the obvious exceptions being Schoenberg and a few others).  Music can be written "out of period" and survive (Calace is a good example in the mandolin world), but it is the exception rather than the rule.   Contemporary music for mandolin makes use of modern composition idioms -- it is "of period" -- and for that reason, IMHO, the best of it is more likely to survive.


Frankly, Barrios (not to mention so many other early 20th-c. guitar specialist composers) is of the same cloth, and guitarists eat that stuff up like it's the candy that it figuratively is.  I don't think mandolin is so different.





> Among the many relevant contemporary composers, I would lobby for adding Yoshinao Kobayashi to your list (his music is certainly among the most frequently performed by the best young players in Europe).  His music has the same overall quality and structural integrity of Neil Gladd's (whose pieces I like a great deal and have performed) but there is more of it. Also of the same quality is Pedro Chamorro.  For historical reasons, you might list Gal and Sprongl.


Good additions.  Gal and Sprongl are some of those I debated, but there is just so little of it for mandolin that I'm aware to have been recorded.  I believe both were pretty prolific, but you don't come across their names with as much frequency as I'd expect for the volume of output.  I suppose regarding them, I'm still feeling of the wait-and-see camp.

----------


## Eugene

> Addenum: to the above I would add that the great problem of the mandolin during the first half of the twentieth century was that it had no Segovia to champion it.  Segovia brought the classical guitar into the 20th century, initiating its transition into the musical mainstream.  In the United States, classical mandolinists kept playing the same music, year after year (a good example is Munier, "Capriccio Spagnulo".  It is astonishing how frequently this piece was played.  It is the mandolin's version of "Asturias" or "Recuerdos"); there was little interest in engaging the wider musical world, certainly not composers.


I have a love-hate relationship with the memory of Segovia.  There is no denying that his campaign of self-promotion rewrote the history of the guitar, and nobody can blame the guy for the public's idolization.  However, the repertoire for guitar was dictated by his taste for a generation to follow to the utter neglect of everything else.  He disliked baroque music for guitar (or didn't want to swim through its alien notation systems and techniques), denied romantic-era music for guitar even existed, so he invented bodies of repertoire from entire compositional eras through transcription.  Composers who should have held a prominent position in guitar history (like Bartolotti), who were nicely representative of an era's idioms (like Mertz), or who generated repertoire of some quality (like Regondi) were lost to collective memory until only very recently because Segovia didn't like it or couldn't play it . . . or perhaps because it wasn't overtly Spanish.  His tastes were also pretty solidly old-fashioned.  Even new compositions that he commissioned and/or elected to champion were nothing like the cutting edge being pushed forward by the serialism movement, etc.

Bringing it back home to "Mandolin" Cafe, there were guitarists and mandolinists who overlapped with Segovia, of course, but who again were forgotten in the wake of Segovia's popularity . . . and as you've pointed out, if anything, the tastes of that era's professional mandolinists were even more retro than Segovia's.

By the way, I enjoyed some social beverage with Stanley Yates and a number of other fine folk after a concert he gave in Cincinnati last night.  After a long discussion about the sorry state or classical guitar and the inability of professional guitarists to engage in outreach to students and the masses, he did profess his love for Royal Winter Music (ironic, eh?).  I don't think that's the work I would choose to introduce my grandmother to guitar.

----------


## Eugene

> Roland, btw, has written for the mandolin, and since most contemporary classical guitarists will be very familiar with him, I think you might consider adding him.


I'm not familiar with Dyens' mandolin music, and I've actually spent a fair amount of time discussing music (and a little discussing mandolin) with him.  Can you reference specifics?  Is it published?  If Bogdanovic is included, there would be no reason to not include Dyens.

----------


## mandopops

I'm enjoying eavesdropping in on this conversation.

 Please continue, don't let me interrupt.

----------


## margora

"Frankly, Barrios (not to mention so many other early 20th-c. guitar specialist composers) is of the same cloth, and guitarists eat that stuff up like it's the candy that it figuratively is. I don't think mandolin is so different."

LOL.  Again, a difference of opinion, we can agree to disagree.     Over the past year I have spent a lot of time studying all of the Calace preludes, with the aim of having one or more in my performance repertoire (at the moment, I have #2 in my fingers).  The Calace preludes are, IMHO, VASTLY superior musically to virtually anything else composed for mandolin at the time.  Nothing in Munier compares remotely in quality.  Furthermore, I have played a great deal of the extant American literature for mandolin -- Abt, Siegel, and so on.  Not only does none of it compare with the Calace preludes, none of it, sadly, is worth learning.  There are pieces that do compare, but only a small number -- Rocco's "Serenade" and Milanesi's "Sarabande e Fuga".

Back when I played only classical guitar, I kept a number of Barrios pieces in my performance repertoire -- La Catedral, Mazurka Appasionata, Waltz #3.  Barrios, IMHO, is far superior to the other early 20th century guitarist-composers (or, for that matter, the 19th).  There have always been detractors going back to the late 1970s when John Williams made his famous LP (preceded by many years of concerts in which he played only Barrios, something he never did with any other composer, guitarist or otherwise), among them Duarte.  But at the end of the day Barrios continues to figure prominently.   You can argue that this reflects the parochialism of the guitar world -- the failure to notice other, allegedly equally compelling composers from the actual 19th century (Mertz, Regondi, whomever) -- but the alternative hypothesis is that market test (I am, after all, an economist).  The same can be said for Calace among mandolinists.

----------


## Eugene

I actually agree with all you've posted re: Barrios, Calace, et al.  I actually love Barrios, I think it's music of tremendous quality, but the sound and style is a definite look backwards in time compared to the cutting edge of the classical-music world in his day.  I don't know that plucked strings have managed to be revolutionary since the days when they began modulating at will, likely because of early application of equal temperament.

I'm liking how this list is shaping up and sincerely appreciate the thoughtful comments provided by Drs. Margo, Cohen, and Dalton.  Here is where it stands now.  I'm still open to revisitation of previous discussions and suggestions as they come.  Keep in mind, this was only intended for my informal distribution to the mandocurious, not as anything like a peer-reviewed publication.

----------


## margora

"Bringing it back home to "Mandolin" Cafe, there were guitarists and mandolinists who overlapped with Segovia, of course, but who again were forgotten in the wake of Segovia's popularity . . . and as you've pointed out, if anything, the tastes of that era's professional mandolinists were even more retro than Segovia's."

I certainly agree with your criticisms of Segovia (to which I would add that he detested the lute).  And yes, his tastes were very conservative and the guitar world would be better off today if he had solicited works from a wider variety of composers than he did.  My point is very simple -- Segovia did get non-guitarist composers to write for the guitar.  Julian Bream and others picked up where he left off and today the guitar has a vibrant contemporary literature.  

None of this happened in the mandolin world.  On the American side, the leading performers of, say, the 1920s and 1930s basically ran their music stores, taught their students, directed their local mandolin ensembles, and then went to the annual conventions of the American Guild where they played Munier and Pettine, plus selected transcriptions from the violin repertoire, year in and year out.  AFAIK, there was literally no attempt to actively engage composers to write for the mandolin.  In Europe, the situation was scarcely better.  Hugo D'Alton managed to get a few things written but I know of no pieces, for example, that were written for, say Kurt Jensen (doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't know of any).  The major exception, an important one, is Hladky, who encouraged the local composers in his circle in Vienna to write for the mandolin, among whom were Sprongl and Gal (which is why I think you should list them, among other reasons, see below).

So, bottom line, I would say the mandolin history here is qualitatively different from the guitar history.  Fortunately, the situation is beginning to change, although the lag between the mandolin and the guitar is significant.  If anyone is likely to make a difference in this regard, it is probably going to be Avi Avital, who is succeeding in getting quite a few non-specialist composers to write for him.

----------


## margora

"I'm not familiar with Dyens' mandolin music, and I've actually spent a fair amount of time discussing music (and a little discussing mandolin) with him. Can you reference specifics? Is it published? If Bogdanovic is included, there would be no reason to not include Dyens."

I should have been more precise.  Roland has arranged music for mandolin and guitar, so perhaps this does not qualify (but perhaps it does, since the arrangements are excellent, typical Dyens).  They are published by Les Productions d'Oz.

----------


## Eugene

Aye!  Well stated [re: the 3:04 post].

----------


## Eugene

> I should have been more precise.  Roland has arranged music for mandolin and guitar, so perhaps this does not qualify (but perhaps it does, since the arrangements are excellent, typical Dyens).  They are published by Les Productions d'Oz.


I found the publication and included reference.

----------


## margora

"By the way, I enjoyed some social beverage with Stanley Yates and a number of other fine folk after a concert he gave in Cincinnati last night. After a long discussion about the sorry state or classical guitar and the inability of professional guitarists to engage in outreach to students and the masses, he did profess his love for Royal Winter Music (ironic, eh?). I don't think that's the work I would choose to introduce my grandmother to guitar."

Brings back good memories when I lived in Nashville and Stanley and I were good friends.  Clearly, his opinions about the guitar world have not changed!  Please give him my regards when you see him.

----------


## margora

On Sprongl and Gal: 

The Sprongl duo for guitar and mandolin is really standard lit for such duos, at least the ones who concentrate on the 20th century.  There are at least three recordings readily available today (one more than, say, the Santorsola duo, which is a fine piece too).  Similarly, Gal is standard rep for mandolin duos, or mandolin and piano.

Two other names to think about**: Kaufman (who wrote superb pieces for mandolin, and also a superb guitar duo, not often played) and, especially, Siegfried Behrend.

----------


## Eugene

As always, Bob, you make well-argued and logical points.  I think I have all those Sprongl recordings, and you state plain fact regarding both Sprongl and Gal, of course.  My initial reluctance was that they each have such vast and diverse compositional outputs, but I don't know that anything but the one mandolin work in one case and a handful in the other ever receives much attention.  That's a similar reason, e.g., that I excluded Halvorsen and others (although, in contrast, Halvorsen's one piece to involve mandolin isn't well known or often played).  So, Gal and Srongl, while standard to mandolinists aren't really "specialist" composers and I'm not quite certain they're really so "major" (unless you happen to be a mandolinist).  Still, you make a good case regarding the status of those works among mandolinists.

I actually included Santorsola, not for the frequency his mandolin sonata is recorded or played, but because he simply wrote one and so many of his guitar works are widely known and recorded.

----------


## Eugene

I thought about Kaufmann too, and on similar terms.  He also wrote a concerto for mandolin, but I don't know that it ever saw the public light of day.

----------


## Eugene

. . . in recording that is.

----------


## Eugene

So, if segregating between "specialist" and "major" where to list Sprongl, Gal, and Kaufmann.  I suppose I made the same kind of exception for Arrigoni in listing him among the majors . . . or I could concoct another list of "marginally well-remembered general composers who happen to have contributed some standard repertoire to mandolin."

----------


## margora

I think the argument to include Santorsola is a good one. On Kaufmann I think you are correct that there is no recording but I believe it was first performed by Keith Harris.

----------


## Eugene

I'm feeling this is about wrapped.  Thanks for your thoughts, all.  I'll continue to distribute this in an effort to recruit pluckers.  I invite readers here to do similarly.

----------


## barbaram

Have a look at the Sydney Mandolins website:
www.sydneymandolins.com 

There are many examples of respected non-specialist mandolin composers adding to the repertoire - and the works frequently being released on CD. The pieces are from solo to orchestral; often written for the mandolin virtuoso Paul Hooper.

----------


## Alex Timmerman

What's in a name...

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Mandolino-ant...1ac4f35&_uhb=1

----------


## Eugene

The seller's description doesn't offer much.  I wonder how the seller came to the "Toscano" designation.  If the date is accurate, I wouldn't attach any regional descriptors to the piece unless it was labeled as such by the maker.  In any event, as discussed elsewhere, this is of a substantially different era and type than the pieces of ca. 1900.

----------

