# Music by Genre > Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk >  Understanding 9/8 Time- Rocky Road to Dublin

## 9lbShellhamer

I'm trying to wrap my head around 9/8 time. 

In the following example it seems clear:


However, this is the song I am actually trying to learn: 


The first example is clear because the 3 triplets equals nine, but I keep getting hung with the Rocky Road to Dublin. 

I understand that quarter notes get two beats in 9/8 time, but why?

I find doing this easiest counting to a full 9 on each measure, 123456789. so I can let my quarter note ring two beats, then a 16th just gets one beat, and then the tuplets get tricky...I guess I'm starting on a rather tricky intro to 9/8 ? 

Any recomendations for playing in 9/8 or other songs I should check out?

Thanks,

Troy

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## Tom Coletti

Think about it as three predominant notes per measure, with each of those notes subdivided into three smaller notes (so you really count it as 1-and-a 2-and-a 3-and-a 1-and-a 2-and-a 3-and-a... Another way to feel the rhythm is to tap your hand on a table/knee/whatever at a constant tempo, then stomp a foot every third beat you tap out with your hand, again counting in threes when you stomp.) Rocky Road to Dublin kinda has a bouncy, syncopated rhythm to it, so as unsophisticated as it sounds, just listening to it and humming/singing along to a youtube vid can give you a feel for it.
"And/ off - to reap - the corn and/ leave - where I - was born - -/ cut - a stout - black thorn - to/ ba - nish ghosts - and gob l ins/ ..."

9/8 is a bit of a tricky rhythm to be starting with, but it's essentially just 6/8 time with an extra group of notes, so perhaps a standard jig or two can help you acclimatize to compound time before you tackle the slip jigs. Hopefully this was was helpful.

Best of luck,

--Tom

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9lbShellhamer

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## Jim Garber

9/8 means 9 eighth notes per measure. A quarter note is still equal to 2 eighth notes. There are no tuplets. 3 eighths are three eighths. A triplet (if indicated) would mean three eighths = 1 quarter. That is not the case in these tunes AFAIK. Mayne someone else can explain this better.

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9lbShellhamer

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## Jim Bevan

Any time signature with an 8 at the bottom almost always means the tune has a triplet feel.
6/8 is the triplet version of 2/4.
9/8 is the triplet version of 3/4.
Jigs are in 6/8 time, and they have two beats to the bar.
Slip jigs are in 9/8 time, and they have three beats to the bar.
All those '50s doo-wop songs are in 12/8, and they have four beats to the bar, with the backbeat (the snare drum) on beats two and four.

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9lbShellhamer

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## 9lbShellhamer

Thanks everyone. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuplet That link says that a triplet is the most common Tuplet. 

So a triplet is a tuplet right?

Kind of like "All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon". All triplets are tuplets but not all tuplets are triplets.

Right?

So the first full measure makes sense to me... There are two quarter notes, two sixteenths, and a dotted quarter. That equals nine beats. All is well.

*However*, In the second measure, there are two quarter notes, (4 beats), two 16th notes, (2 beats), and a triplet. In 4/4 time a "triplet" equals a quarter note, but in 9/8 aren't triplets equal to three full beats? A quarter note is two, and a triplet must be three. That would give the second measure its 9 full beats.

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## Keith Newell

down /up/down down/up/down down/up/down next measure

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## Tom Wright

> Thanks everyone. 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuplet That link says that a triplet is the most common Tuplet. 
> 
> So a triplet is a tuplet right?
> 
> Kind of like "All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon". All triplets are tuplets but not all tuplets are triplets.
> 
> Right?
> ...


I need to correct your description of the printed rhythm. The notes are 1/4 and 1/8---the 1/4 is twice the duration of the 1/8, so the feel is 1 (2) 3--1 (2) 3. In the 2rd bar, the printing is a bit misleading in that they "barred" the three 1/8 notes across a strong beat, against convention. Beats me why they did not notate like in the 4th bar. I've re--notated it:



"Tuplet" includes "quintuplets" and "sextuplets", where that number of notes is fit into one beat. But that mainly means when it is not in the time signature, like three 1/8 notes fitting into a 1/4 note, which should only equal two. In 9/8, 6/8, 3/8, the triplets are inherent. When out of signature there would be a bracket above the group identifying it as a tuplet of whatever value indicated. Converting 4/4 to all-triplet feel would be 12/8, or stay in 4/4 with triplet brackets above each group.

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9lbShellhamer, 

Jim Garber

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## JeffD

I don't see any tuplets or triplets. Its all quarter notes, dotted quarter notes, and eighth notes. Its 9/8, so there are 9 beats in a measure and an eighth gets one beat. 

That little connecting line is a slur, which means for a fiddle to bow both notes in the same direction and means for a woodwind only tongue the first note not both, and means for mandolin not much in this case. 

Best not to even think of triplets at all because that is a specific rhythmic thing not being used here. You can count 123456789 / 123456789, or what works for me is 123 223 323 / 123 223 323.

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## 9lbShellhamer

> I need to correct your description of the printed rhythm. The notes are 1/4 and 1/8---the 1/4 is twice the duration of the 1/8, so the feel is 1 (2) 3--1 (2) 3. In the 2rd bar, the printing is a bit misleading in that they "barred" the three 1/8 notes across a strong beat, against convention. Beats me why they did not notate like in the 4th bar. I've re--notated it:
> 
> 
> 
> "Tuplet" includes "quintuplets" and "sextuplets", where that number of notes is fit into one beat. But that mainly means when it is not in the time signature, like three 1/8 notes fitting into a 1/4 note, which should only equal two. In 9/8, 6/8, 3/8, the triplets are inherent. When out of signature there would be a bracket above the group identifying it as a tuplet of whatever value indicated. Converting 4/4 to all-triplet feel would be 12/8, or stay in 4/4 with triplet brackets above each group.


Tom,

This really clears it up. Thanks for taking the time to explain! (and for the corrected arrangement!)

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## Steve L

This is a perfect example for the viewpoint of learning this music by ear and not from the dots.  I think the best thing the OP can do is to type "slipjigs" into Youtube and listen to a bunch of them over a period of time.

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## Eddie Sheehy

That's not a great arrangement of The Rocky Road.  Try some of teh arrangements on THESESSION.ORG
The Rocky Road - in addition to being a traditional Slip Jig is also a SONG and some arrangements are written to suit the way it might be sung as opposed to danced...
For other Slip Jigs try:
The Butterfly, Fig For a Kiss, Foxhunter's Jig, Kid on the Mountain...

As for triplet/tuplet - In a jig or slip jig triplets as written are exactly that 3 1/8 notes... A triplet becomes a tuplet when the three notes are crammed into a two note space (1/4 note) which is in fact an ORNAMENTAL TRIPLET and rarely written since it's optional and can be used for any quarter note (sometimes dropping or raising the center note a half-step)

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9lbShellhamer

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## JeffD

> This is a perfect example for the viewpoint of learning this music by ear and not from the dots.  I think the best thing the OP can do is to type "slipjigs" into Youtube and listen to a bunch of them over a period of time.


Once you get familiar with the 9/8 rhythm, and play a few of these to get it into your muscle memory, you can take sheet music and just about read the tune from the page.

That's why I like tune books arranged by type of tune. Be it a slip jig or a reel or a hornpipe, once you have the rhythm down, you can just go to town on the rest of the tunes on the page.

Best is both. Get familiar with the music and how it is played from youtube or recordings or best of all playing with other people regularly. Then dive into a good tune book and sus out the thousands and thousands of tunes out there to enjoy.

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## zoukboy

Not to quibble or split hairs here but "The Rocky Road to Dublin" is a type of slip jig called a Hop Jig. These are distinguished from normal slip jigs by a predominance of quarter note/eighth note combinations as opposed to the three eighth notes that are familiar from tunes like "The Kid on the Mountain," etc.

Hop Jigs bear a similar relationship to slip jigs as single jigs do to double jigs (i.e., double jigs have predominantly running eighth notes three on a beat while single jigs, "Off She Goes" for instance, have many quarter note/eighth note combinations and some have dotted quarters at phrase beginnings or ends). Other Hop Jigs are "The Butterfly" and "Fig for a Kiss" (mentioned by Eddie).

This quarter note/eighth note rhythm can be confusing in regards to picking pattern because those two notes, since they are in the same position as the 1st and 3rd notes in a running triplet rhythm in double jigs, correspond to the two downstrokes in the DUD pattern -- that is one way to pick them: D-D, but depending on the tempo I sometimes use D-U for the quarter/eighth note groups and DUD for when the tune has three eighths on a beat.

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## Eddie Sheehy

Not to split hairs either... But Off She Goes is a Single Jig in 6/8...

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## zoukboy

> Not to split hairs either... But Off She Goes is a Single Jig in 6/8...


How right you are! Thanks for catching that typo, Eddie. :-)  I meant to list it as an example of a single jig (which I usually write out in 12/8 rather than 6/8).

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