# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Ebay: Copy of a Lloyd Lane!

## jim simpson

"This is a copy of a Lloyd Lane 5 point Gibson":

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mandolin-Mad...item3cef4c488a

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## Londy

Ooooh.... but its made from a guy in Ohio and there is a mandolin in a random museum.  Starting bid at $1500 what a deal, better get bidding.  :Laughing:

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## Marty Jacobson

Yeah, well, it's getting hard to find a good five-point these days.

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## George R. Lane

My uncle Llloyd was well ahead of his time.  :Wink:

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bigskygirl, 

Charlieshafer, 

Eddie Sheehy

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## Londy

la la la la Lloyd

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## mrmando

I sort of like the look of this thing, and the workmanship looks all right as far as I can tell from the not-so-great photos. But there's gotta be a reason that (a) I've never heard of this guy; and (b) four of his other mandolins are stuck in a museum somewhere. (Why would the museum need more than one, unless no one else wants them?)

Here's a blog by an Ohio mandolinist named John Whitacre. No idea if it's the same dude; I didn't find any mention of luthiery. 
http://rampantmandolin.blogspot.com/

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## Londy

exactly...  :Popcorn:

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## Jeff Mando

Not sure what I'm missing here?  Looks like a well-made instrument by somebody with enough talent and skill to try something different from your "normal" F-5 copy....

What's it sound like?  Don't know. 

What's it worth?  Don't know.

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## Petrus

Ditto that that looks like a fairly decent luthier made instrument. I like the giant squid inlay in the headstock and the vertical oval sound hole. Seems journeymanlike at least.

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## mrmando

Where are the other 2 points?

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## darrylicshon

I really like the look of a 3 point just can't afford one

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## barney 59

First of all this is an ebay seller who's information is likely to be incorrect. I find that to be pretty normal. The museum story may be just as correct as this is a Loar copy! The builder knows it's not!  Second this mandolin does not appear to be too bad and actually it's pretty nice and if there is no reserve at $1500 it could be a good purchase. The builder has some skills and I don't think it means anything that maybe he's unheard of. It's a tough business to crack and if you don't make the NBA cut you will probably starve. I think the odds for someone to make it into the NBA is probably a little higher than making it(as in making a living) as a luthier. I personally don't see how someone building by hand a mandolin(F) and doesn't get $5,000 is making a living...and it's hard to get that much if you haven't established a name! Besides this guy is already a musician --how many professions can you have that you don't get paid?

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## mrmando

I might take a chance at about half the listed price.

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## Jeff Mando

> First of all this is an ebay seller who's information is likely to be incorrect. I find that to be pretty normal. The museum story may be just as correct as this is a Loar copy! The builder knows it's not!  Second this mandolin does not appear to be too bad and actually it's pretty nice and if there is no reserve at $1500 it could be a good purchase. The builder has some skills and I don't think it means anything that maybe he's unheard of. It's a tough business to crack and if you don't make the NBA cut you will probably starve. I think the odds for someone to make it into the NBA is probably a little higher than making it(as in making a living) as a luthier. I personally don't see how someone building by hand a mandolin(F) and doesn't get $5,000 is making a living...and it's hard to get that much if you haven't established a name! Besides this guy is already a musician --how many professions can you have that you don't get paid?


Good points, Barney 59!  I think it is hard to make a living being self-employed--AT ANYTHING!  We all have different requirements for income.  You would think it impossible, but it appears there are luthiers building mandolins and doing their thing, who have never heard of Mandolin Cafe, and we have never heard of them.  And some, like this guy, seem to know what they are doing.  If you would add up the hours required to make an F-style, at $1500, he would probably be making about $3 an hour.  If that.  I would guess local cabinetmakers probably make 5 times that.  I know when Gibson opened in Memphis about 15 years ago, a lot of guys who refinish furniture applied, but passed on the job because the top painters at Gibson were making $15 an hour and guys could make more doing furniture.  I think there are a lot more builders we have never heard of out there.  They keep popping up on eBay!  Thank goodness.  Where they fit into the "marketplace" is anyone's guess.

As far as making a living playing music......don't get me started.  I tried for the last 40 years, I say I probably made a living as a musician three of those years.  And that was only because my standards were so low!   I would say, if you're young, have a cheap apartment, a cheap car, and your wife has a good job--you might be able to be a professional musician, but just barely!  My observation is that there is no middle class in being a professional musician.  There are plenty of starving artists and we see some superstars on TV, but where are the guys (and gals) making $62,000 a year and raising a family and paying a mortgage?  I haven't seen any in my neighborhood.  Usually you have to work several other jobs to supplement your music income.

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## journeybear

Huh? Looks like he corrected the copy to say "Lloyd Loar." Too bad; I was interested until then, as I used to live on Lloyd Lane. Or was it Love Lane?   :Confused:  I'm so confused.  :Confused:  What was in that rum punch?   :Confused:  Oh, yeah - rum, and lots of it.  :Wink:  Anyway, the seller seems to have problems with spelling, giving the maker as both "Witacer" and "Wittaker," neither of which fit the "Whitacre" mrmando found. That squid gives me the willies, though. And this is the first I've seen of a Loar copy with that sort of headstock inlay.  :Confused:  And I, too, wonder where are the other two points. And also wonder, pretty much, what *is* the point?  :Whistling:

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## Bernie Daniel

> I sort of like the look of this thing, and the workmanship looks all right as far as I can tell from the not-so-great photos. But there's gotta be a reason that (a) I've never heard of this guy; and (b) four of his other mandolins are stuck in a museum somewhere. (Why would the museum need more than one, unless no one else wants them?)
> 
> Here's a blog by an Ohio mandolinist named John Whitacre. No idea if it's the same dude; I didn't find any mention of luthiery. 
> http://rampantmandolin.blogspot.com/


I agree probably not the same guy?  That John G. Whitacre lives in Winona, Ohio which is in the NE part of the state -- nice country.  The rare 5-point mandolin is in Florida.   Gee, I wonder if there is a mandolin museum in Ohio?   :Confused: 

The carving, finish and the detail work seem very good on the mandolin -- is the scroll intended to be a nod toward the Monteleone GA?   However, the squid on the headstock leaves me cold and clammy -- so to speak.  Nothing else on the mandolin speaks to a sea invertebrate theme -- just noting that.

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## mrmando

> Nothing else on the mandolin speaks to a sea invertebrate theme -- just noting that.


Well, parts of the squid are made from some kind of bivalve. I don't know green abalone from white abalone from MOP, but somehow I have a craving for calamari.

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## jim simpson

The sound-hole looks a bit like the Paris Swing Nuages mandolin just a bit smaller. There was a cool mandolin that I was lusting after a while back that had a sound hole orientation like this. One of those times where visuals alone almost had me. The squid could be de-squidded with an overlay of some sort. The looks of this one is kinda growing on me but mando fund is deflated.

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## journeybear

What the -? First the description was gone ... now it's back, with some amplification. Maybe the seller has been paying attention to our palaver. Anyway, he says he's selling it for a friend, the widow of the owner, and neither of them knows a whole lot about these things.

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## rubydubyr

> Well, parts of the squid are made from some kind of bivalve. I don't know green abalone from white abalone from MOP, but somehow I have a craving for calamari.


 :Laughing:

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## Bernie Daniel

> What the -? First the description was gone ... now it's back, with some amplification. Maybe the seller has been paying attention to our palaver. Anyway, he says he's selling it for a friend, the widow of the owner, and neither of them knows a whole lot about these things.


It DOES look like the seller is reading this string and addressing the questions -- which is good.  I do see however that after expanding the description the 5-point mandolin (3 point for all the rest of us) that it is now called an *Andolin*.    Maybe that will be corrected in the next round of edits?

If I were to offer any advice to this seller I would suggest some additional better quality pictures.  I would include pictures of the entire front and back, and close ups of the bridge, tail piece, fret board, sound hole, and other features.  

The standard allotment of pics allowed on eBay is at least 12 now isn't it?  More pictures help a buyer decide whether a bid is in order.  A picture of the case would be good too.

I assume the fret board is ebony but the add does not say.

If it does not sell on eBay I would offer it for sale on the Mandolin Cafe classifieds.  The add does have a best offer feature also.

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## mrmando

> Ooooh.... but its made from a guy in Ohio


That would be intriguing ... but I hope not. I don't think it would be legal to sell on eBay if that were the case.

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## mrmando

I don't know if he's reading the thread but I sent him some questions. 

If he IS reading the thread ... it's NOT a copy of a Lloyd Loar design. Loar never built anything like this. It is a copy of an Orville Gibson design with an altered soundhole.

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## journeybear

> That would be intriguing ... but I hope not. I don't think it would be legal to sell on eBay if that were the case.


Hmmm .. Missed that. Thanks, Mr. Eagle Eye. Yep, gotta watch those prepositions.  :Whistling: 

And it's a 3-point design.

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## mrmando

Well, reportedly the luthier was from Bowling Green, Ohio, and the other four mandolins are in the Black Swamp Museum. 

But there is no Black Swamp Museum in Ohio.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Well, reportedly the luthier was from Bowling Green, Ohio, and the other four mandolins are in the Black Swamp Museum. 
> 
> But there is no Black Swamp Museum in Ohio.


Maybe he meant they just are in the Great Black Swamp...of course that is gone now too...pretty much drained by the 1890's.  There is a Black Swamp Conservatory and they do great work BTW, including funding original research, but as far as know they do not get into mandolins.  The founders (who do not seem to be on the Board any more?) do like old time music though!   :Smile:   Maybe I'll give them a shout later today to find out if they have been stashing mandolins up there!

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## darrylicshon

> Maybe he meant they just are in the Great Black Swamp...of course that is gone now too..Maybe I'll give them a shout later today to find out if they have been stashing mandolins up there!


If you do ask them about some of that nice old swamp wood, i bet we could make some nice mandos out of some, hey i started playing mando in Cincinnati

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## Bernie Daniel

> ....hey i started playing mando in Cincinnati


Details?  :Mandosmiley:

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## journeybear

I get the impression that much of what the seller is saying in the description is repeated hearsay, and he has not done due diligence, or researched the instrument's history and attributes beyond what he has been told. His main source for information is an elderly woman who was married to the now deceased owner, and this consists of what she recalls of what he may have said to her over the years. Then there are numerous misspellings and awkward phrasings in the description of this "andolin," which currently (subject to change, as we have seen) reads thusly:

2003 High end, very rare, only 6 made!!! Hand made by John Witacker from Ohio. This is a copy of a Lloyd Loar. gibson design. 5 point Gibson.  Made out of Tiger Maple.   with spalted maple ring around the sound hole.  a giant  sqid carved into the headstock.  all 6 of these made were a little different,so this is a one of a kind. 6 made, 4 of which are in the black swamp museum in Ohio. One other, John Wittaker's daughter has. I have the 6th one here up for auction!!! Comes with foam fitted/molded case.  (HI, ALL LOOKERS,IVE RECEIVED LOTS OF COMMENTS ABOUT MY POST.)  i wished i had more info,im selling this for an elderly friend here in fla. it was her husbands instrument and hes deceased.  she gave me the info she knows.  she doesnt know the correct spelling of the last name  whittaker,whitaker,whitacer,or maybe witacer, i dont know.  i do know its a fine instrument. by like a few people said, if its an unknown maker,its like an unknown musician,name means nothing,HOWEVER!,im getting my education about this.  when i took on the task of listing this i thought,wow what a highend piece it should sell itself,i thought this guy was a well known builder,and id find out all sorts of info after listing it.  as an ebay seller and lister,we always bare the issues,and questions of the item..  im ue info,boom they sell themselvessed to selling highend guitars,gibson,martin,fender etc. boom they sell themselves.

If I lived near the seller, I might offer to take a look at the instrument, and help neaten up the prose. But I do not, and so cannot. It seems he could benefit from some assistance.

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## mrmando

Well, you live a lot closer to him than I do...

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## mrmando

> hey i started playing mando in Cincinnati


Me too...and I didn't stop until we got to Columbus.

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## mrmando

Now I'm being told the other mandolins are in the Andrew L. Tuttle Memorial Museum in Defiance... 
http://www.cityofdefiance.com/main/i...le-museum-home

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## journeybear

Hmmm ...



Should I have searched for "andolin?"  :Confused:

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## rubydubyr

> Hmmm ...
> 
> Should I have searched for "andolin?"


 :Laughing:

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## Denny Gies

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Hmmm ...
> 
> 
> 
> Should I have searched for "andolin?"


OK J-Bear -- please refer to post #21 for your advanced warning! LOL

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## Bernie Daniel

> Now I'm being told the other mandolins are in the Andrew L. Tuttle Memorial Museum in Defiance... 
> http://www.cityofdefiance.com/main/i...le-museum-home


 Adding to Journey Bear's post........

Andrew L. Tuttle, a lifelong resident of Defiance, Ohio, bequeathed his extensive collection of Native American artifacts, coins, documents, stamps, military memorabilia, and other artifacts, to the city of Defiance with the stipulation a museum would be established in his name. The City accepted the entire collection in 2003 and steps were taken to catalog and stabilize the collection. The Tuttle, as the museum has been nicknamed, officially opened to the public in May 2013.

The museum is open on Thursdays from 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm and on the first  Sunday of the month 1:00 pm. to 4:00 pm -- in case you are passing though Defiance, Ohio. Or you can arrange a private viewing of the mandolins by calling 419-782-0746!   :Laughing:

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## MikeEdgerton

> Now I'm being told the other mandolins are in the Andrew L. Tuttle Memorial Museum in Defiance... 
> http://www.cityofdefiance.com/main/i...le-museum-home


Searching the museum site returns zero listings with the  search word mandolin and zero listings with the search words musical instruments. I guess it could be that there's nothing on their web site about what is in the museum.

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## mrmando

Well, it sounds like just the sort of oddball museum that would have four mandolins serving no particular purpose. The Web site nowhere purports to be a complete catalog of the museum's collection ... but it does have an exhibit related to a local music store in Defiance, which includes a pump organ formerly belonging to the owner of said music store ... so we know there's at least one musical instrument there.

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## Larry S Sherman

Thought it looked familiar. Found a reference to it here, but the linked photo doesn't exist anymore.

Wayfaring Stranger said _"A friend of mine just built this one (played it the other night; it's killer)_"

Larry

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## Bernie Daniel

> Thought it looked familiar. Found a reference to it here, but the linked photo doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> Wayfaring Stranger said _"A friend of mine just built this one (played it the other night; it's killer)_"  Larry


Good memory Larry!   Now that you point me to the string I think I remember it too.  

So maybe Wayfaring Stranger knows if (he/she) is still on the forum.  The last post from Wayfaring Stranger was August 17, 2011.  He/she lived in Potomac, MD at that time.

Also before the eBay add was revised (and changed from 5-point mandolin to 5-point andolin) I thought it had a "make an offer" option?  In any case, it doesn't now.

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## Charles E.

That squid inlay has been nagging me. I am sure I have seen it posted on the Cafe in the past but I can't locate it.
To me it looks like a pretty good mandolin, is there not a label in this mandolin?

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## journeybear

> OK J-Bear -- please refer to post #21 for your advanced warning! LOL


 :Confused:  I don't follow, but it don't matter. If the seller IS scanning this thread, he is surely learning a lot about all kinds of stuff. And that's just fine!  :Wink: 

Martin's right - this is exactly the sort of oddball museum that would four mandolins from the same unknown maker, as it is comprised of the collected artifacts of one person. What gets me is the part where the collection was donated in 2003 and the museum opened in 2013. One would like to assume that in the intervening decade, as the collection was being catalogued, those doing the job would have done what needed to be done for the catalogue to be available online. I believe that is pretty much SOP these days. Perhaps someone would like to give the curator a ringy-dingy? Or if someone lives near Defiance they could take a swing by and have a look-see? I'm mostly curious if each mandolin has a different nautical creature on its headstock. *That* would be something to behold!

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## Londy

So, what's up with the squid thing?  Of all things, it's weird.

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## Bernie Daniel

> I don't follow, but it don't matter. If the seller IS scanning this thread, he is surely learning a lot about all kinds of stuff. And that's just fine! ...



I don't blame you  -- I almost can't follow it myself and I wrote it!  LOL

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atbuckner21, 

journeybear

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## darrylicshon

> Details?


I went to SCPA my major was violin, found a mandolin on a wall at a party in college hill from then on i was hooked

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## jim simpson

"WE LISTED THIS IN HOPES THAT SOMEONE OUT THERE KNEW THE QUALITY AND VALUE OF IT.  LOOKS LIKE NOONE WILL END UP WITH THIS FINE INSTRUMENT. 4 DAYS LEFT"

Hmm, perhaps a lowering the minimum...

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## JEStanek

I think the other two points they are referring to are at the base of the headstock.

Jamie

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## Bernie Daniel

> "WE LISTED THIS IN HOPES THAT SOMEONE OUT THERE KNEW THE QUALITY AND VALUE OF IT.  LOOKS LIKE NOONE WILL END UP WITH THIS FINE INSTRUMENT. 4 DAYS LEFT"  Hmm, perhaps a lowering the minimum...


Well I suggested that the seller add some better pictures it he/she wants buyers to appreciate it --but so far nothing.  The four photos and the description provided are not the greatest IMO.

Also I don't think that is a large group of mandolin pickers out there clamoring to have an axe with a squid on the head stock -- but I could be wrong.

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## Eddie Sheehy

That guy Noone ends up with a lot of instruments like these... then he relists them...

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atbuckner21, 

JEStanek

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## mrmando

If the dude really wants to sell this, he can make it a true auction: start it at a dollar and let the bidding determine its value. Or list it with a "best offer" option and see what happens.

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## rfloyd

If looking for a mandolin on ebay the first thing I would do is type "mandolin" in the search bar.  I don't know if this "andolin" would show up....

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## JEStanek

Paraphrasing the great Frank Zappa, Is that a real andolin or a Sear's andolin?

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## Michael Bridges

> If you do ask them about some of that nice old swamp wood, i bet we could make some nice mandos out of some, hey i started playing mando in Cincinnati


Where did you finish?

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## Larry S Sherman

> I don't think that is a large group of mandolin pickers out there clamoring to have an axe with a squid on the head stock -- but I could be wrong.


It's my favorite feature!

Larry

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## journeybear

Got to admit, I'm baffled that the seller would add more text to the ad but not correct the title.  :Confused:  BTW, I remember when I started my internet participation and spellcheck informed me "noone" was not a word. I fought it for awhile but finally surrendered to convention and spelled it "no one." Seems sad, somehow ...




> hey i started playing mando in Cincinnati





> Where did you finish?


Reminds me of the old routine, which I find myself in every now and then:

Q: You lived here all your life?
A: Nope, not yet.  :Wink:

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darrylicshon, 

Michael Bridges

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## Bernie Daniel

> It's my favorite feature!
> 
> Larry


OK so maybe you are an inveterate biologist? Or at least always wanted to be one but got hijacked by a mandolin?  

Warning OT:  The one thing I most remember about the giant squid from my developmental anatomy course (circa 1962) is that the eye of the squid is largest in the animal kingdom (size of a dinner plate) and it is anatomically very similar to the mammalian eye and is often sighted as an example of *convergent* evolution -- that is starting from two different points and emerging at the same place.  

(P.S. not to offend --so if you are not a follower of Darwin that is just fine with me I am not taking a stand on evolution just communicating an interesting fact about squid eyes.)  :Smile:

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## Bernie Daniel

> If looking for a mandolin on ebay the first thing I would do is type "mandolin" in the search bar.  I don't know if this "andolin" would show up....


I did send the seller a note yesterday.  I  suggested more, better pics and also suggested that the "M" be added back to mandolin.  

And it looks like that part was well-received. It now says "Mandolin" again.

But the reply was accompanied by a a lot of unfriendly push back as well -- including chiding me for not bidding even after changed it was changed back to mandolin! LOL!!!

The seller apparently HAS followed the MC discussion and seems to feel that as a instrument seller he knows best  -- in his view we are "tire kickers"!   LOL

Keep in mind that he has assured us that it sounds better than a Gibson.  

So let's get to bidding folks!!!   :Laughing:

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## FLATROCK HILL

> (P.S. not to offend --so if you are not a follower of Darwin that is just fine with me I am not taking a stand just communicating an interesting fact about squid eyes.)


You added that little disclaimer in the nick of time Bernie. My blood was nearing the boiling point but thankfully it began to cool when I reached the end of your post. 
For a moment, I feared you might be going into your 'attack-mode' again. :Wink:

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Bernie Daniel

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## Bernie Daniel

> You added that little disclaimer in the nick of time Bernie. My blood was nearing the boiling point but thankfully it began to cool when I reached the end of your post. 
> For a moment, I feared you might be going into your 'attack-mode' again.


Thank goodness!  I would not want anyone to overheat their radiator!  And HNY!   :Smile:

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FLATROCK HILL

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## journeybear

> Keep in mind that he has assured us that it sounds better than a Gibson.


Oh, so now he knows something about mandolins?  :Confused:  I've been willing to give him some benefit of the doubt, out of a sense of charity, but if he's gonna get huffy with folks giving him a bit of good-natured ribbing, considering how it's well-deserved and he's earned it, and how much education he ought to have picked up through this process, all bets are off and he's on his own, AFAIC.  :Mad: 




> So let's get to bidding folks!!!


I don't think so! Too rich for my blood. I'd rather get an A model Gibson for $1000 or less.  :Wink: 

Now, if another mandolin from this maker shows up with a whale or a marlin on the headstock, I might have to think about it  :Whistling:  ... as long as it doesn't come with clams _built in!_  :Laughing:

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## Bernie Daniel

> Oh, so now he knows something about mandolins?  I've been willing to give him some benefit of the doubt, out of a sense of charity, but if he's gonna get huffy with folks giving him a bit of good-natured ribbing, considering how it's well-deserved and he's earned it, and how much education he ought to have picked up through this process, all bets are off and he's on his own, AFAIC. 
> 
> 
> I don't think so! Too rich for my blood. I'd rather get an A model Gibson for $1000 or less.


I think that the seller is very frustrated with all the comments and does not see them as "helpful".  

He'll just have to do it his way like Frank Sinatra and maybe someone like Larry who is attracted to squids on a mandolin  :Wink:   will come along and just HAVE to have it!!

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## journeybear

Well, it's true that we have been having some sport at his expense, but there has been a good amount of advice mixed in with that. People are funny critters, full of foibles, and if we can't laugh at ourselves, we are doomed. One of my pet peeves is the odd mixture of ignorance and arrogance some people display when confronted with an error they have made, however obvious it is or how deeply in denial they are. Think I'd better stop there, because I think the seller has been raked over the coals enough.  :Whistling:

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## Jeff Mando

> If the dude really wants to sell this, he can make it a true auction: start it at a dollar and let the bidding determine its value. Or list it with a "best offer" option and see what happens.


I agree in a perfect world, with millions of bidders, a dollar auction would seek its actual value.  I think it would, still, if you had a mint condition vintage Martin or pre-CBS strat---let's say a $30,000 guitar, starting at a dollar will still bring close to that--if the demand is there and enough people are watching.

I've seen eBay change over the years, I don't think it is the economy, seems more like apathy, to me.  Nobody cares, anymore.  When eBay first started it was like the Gold Rush of '49--a person could sell anything for almost any price.  I can't tell ya how many vintage belt buckles, sunglasses, etc., I sold for $500 back then, and the buyers were happy to get them.  I worked at a guitar store when eBay first started and guitars that had lingered for a year on the rack for $300, sold it a week on eBay for sometimes $450 or more!  It was crazy, back then.  Today, unfortunately, eBay is "old news" to a lot of people.  A high starting bid is about the only way for a seller to protect themselves.  I'm guessing if this mandolin started at a dollar it would peter out at $300-400, if that, based on the current climate.  Same could be said of real estate.  If houses were offered at absolute auction, in many areas, a $200,000 home would only bring $60,000 or so, to an investor, and most people are not willing to take such a loss or have more than that in the home.  This is also happening with vintage car auctions--stuff that should be $125,000--goes for $60 or 70K.  It is a buyers market, these days.  And, as a buyer, my only motivation to spend money is if the price is right, because, like a lot of people, I don't need anything, instrument-wise.

Just got back from visiting my Mother for the holidays.  It is an 800 mile trip, I drive, taking two or three days, stopping at 30-40 music stores, pawn shops, flea markets along the way.  Places I've been doing business with for years.  I always see a bunch of nice stuff--if you want to pay retail--I don't because I don't need anything--but if something is a great deal, I'll peel open the ole wallet!  No mandos this trip, but picked up four guitars--no museum pieces, but good deals are still out there if you apply yourself.

So just saying, I see both sides of the high starting bid approach.  Basically, the seller is saying they will take $1500 for it, or the first bidder wins it.  I still do a fair amount of eBay, some items I will run for years until sold, using eBay's list until sold feature, which actually only costs you about 20 cents a month or $2.40 a year.  You still have to pay a final value fee of approx 11 percent, when and if the item sells, but you can run it for years at $2.40 a year and get worldwide advertising.  (and be subjected to worldwide ridicule on forums, such as MC, and many others, I might add---Ibanez, Electra, Univox, and Alembic all have forums whose members would make our friends here at MC seems quite mild-mannered and polite, by comparison!)  LOL  :Laughing:  In the old days, a good item would sell in a week for my price.  These days, sales are slow.  Much more like a hobby, than an actual business.

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rfloyd

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## Jeff Mando

> I did send the seller a note yesterday. 
> 
> But the reply was accompanied by a a lot of unfriendly push back as well -- including chiding me for not bidding even after changed it was changed back to mandolin! LOL!!!
> 
> The seller apparently HAS followed the MC discussion and seems to feel that as a instrument seller he knows best  -- in his view we are "tire kickers"!   LOL



I know where a lot of sellers are coming from.  Many are retired folks who did the flea market thing and started doing eBay to supplement their income, but find it is too frustrating and requires too much attention to detail.  (imagine putting them in charge of shipping your prized mandolin!)  They are used to simply putting something on a flea market table and having someone hand them some money, usually after some haggling.  They are interested in one thing, making money.  They are not interested in your hobby or being a penpal.  A lot of them seem gruff or blunt to this forum, because they do not speak the "language".  We have also seen this type of seller in the MC Classifieds, from time to time.

----------


## mrmando

Yes, eBay has a culture of its own, and so do mandolin players, and so does the Cafe, and this seller doesn't seem quite at home in any of them. 



> I agree in a perfect world, with millions of bidders, a dollar auction would seek its actual value.


I don't know about "actual value," but it would certainly find its current eBay market value. He's getting more eyeballs thanks to this thread than he would otherwise, but that might not translate into extra dollars if people get the impression that the seller is poorly informed or unreasonable. There's always the option of setting a reserve in an auction with a low starting bid. 

There's an F4 by Ithaca Strings in South Carolina, with a seller even more hapless than this one, that has been kicking around CraigsList for a while. It was on the Cafe for a bit and also on eBay:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msg/4826818063.html

(Eric Aceto and Dan Hoffman made some well-regarded instruments when they were working together as Ithaca Strings, but they never quite achieved a national reputation for their guitars and mandolinsthey were always better known for their electric violins. The partnership broke up a while ago; last I heard Dan was in Spain and Eric is still in Ithaca, and both are now doing more traditional violin work.) 

Anyhow, this seller wants $6K for this Ithaca F4 but doesn't have the first clue about how to get anyone to pay that much. She listed it in a no-reserve eBay auction, which I won for about $700, but of course she refused to send it to me for that amount. I think a seller who understood the market, and realized that Eric and Dan's mandolins, as good as they might be, are not in high demand, might be able to get $34K from the right buyer ... but that's never going to happen with the current seller. 

When you have something like the Whitaker Squidolin, by a builder with no reputation at all, you have to sell the mandolin based on its own merits, and this seller doesn't appear to understand how to do that.

----------


## rubydubyr

> When you have something like the Whitaker Squidolin,

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## journeybear

> When you have something like the Whitaker Squidolin, by a builder with no reputation at all, you have to sell the mandolin based on its own merits, and this seller doesn't appear to understand how to do that.


Nor interested in learning. Another approach would be to lower the opening bid but set a reserve price. At least if people start bidding, there can be a snowballing effect. But you have to get people started, somehow. A high opening bid on an odd duck instrument by an unknown builder isn't going to get it done.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> I agree in a perfect world, with millions of bidders, a dollar auction would seek its actual value...So just saying, I see both sides of the high starting bid approach.... I'm guessing if this mandolin started at a dollar it would peter out at $300-400, if that, based on the current climate.... and most people are not willing to take such a loss or have more than that in the home.  Basically, the seller is saying they will take $1500 for it, or the first bidder wins it.


But doesn't eBay still have the "Reserve" option?  I'm sure it does because I still see "reserve not met" warning on some auctions. So he could offer it at starting bid $20, have a reserve of $1500, and offer BIN also -- then maybe he could move it.  But no one but a totally uninformed buyer would plunk down $1500 for that item with no case.  To his credit the seller accepts returns.

Personally I think $750 - 800 is right considering how essentially nothing is known about it, & the pics are pretty uninformative -- how many are  out there looking for modern 3-point F-2's anyway?

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## Jeff Mando

> But doesn't eBay still have the "Reserve" option?  I'm sure it does because I still see "reserve not met" warning on some auctions. So he could offer it at starting bid $20, have a reserve of $1500, and offer BIN also -- then maybe he could move it.  But no one but a totally uninformed buyer would plunk down $1500 for that item with no case.  To his credit the seller accepts returns.
> 
> Personally I think $750 - 800 is right considering how essentially nothing is known about it, & the pics are pretty uninformative -- how many are  out there looking for modern 3-point F-2's anyway?


Yes, eBay still offers a reserve option, but many bidders, including myself, don't like to feel they are bidding against somebody's reserve.  They prefer to bid against another actual bidder who wants it.  So, a lot of times I won't even bother bidding if the reserve is not already met--then it is fair game.  If the seller ran a reserve auction and the reserve was not met, at least it would give them some indication of where the bidding would stop and therefore a selling price.

I wanted to add that we should separate the mandolin's virtue from the seller.  Unfortunately, you have to go through the seller if you wish to purchase it.

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## Bernie Daniel

> ....I wanted to add that we should separate the mandolin's virtue from the seller.  Unfortunately, you have to go through the seller if you wish to purchase it.


Yes this seller is his own worst enemy.  The add is a bit of a mess --  starting with "5-point mandolin", and a "no name" builder listed in the title (for what reason?) and so forth and so on.............

But then who knows?   There might be someone out there secretly watching this auction and ready to bid $1500 in the last few seconds!!   LOL!

----------


## Larry S Sherman

> ...maybe someone like Larry who is attracted to squids on a mandolin   will come along and just HAVE to have it!!


It seems like a perfect convergence of my interests in 3-point mandolins, giant squids, and gypsy jazz petite-bouche soundholes. 

Yes, I would buy it, but not at that price. I would certainly lose my shirt on any future resale, as the Django-Squid market is quite small.

Larry

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## Cheryl Watson

Well, the seller seems to have a good sense of humor-- "Andolin" only for women who do want the word "man" in it--or something like that--haha!

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## journeybear

> It seems like a perfect convergence of my interests in 3-point mandolins, giant squids, and gypsy jazz petite-bouche soundholes. 
> 
> Yes, I would buy it, but not at that price. I would certainly lose my shirt on any future resale, as the Django-Squid market is quite small.


Huh?  :Confused:  What do you mean - resale?  :Confused:  Sounds to me, given these factors, you are the perfect end consumer/lifetime owner for this unique artifact. Except for the price, I guess ...  :Whistling:

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## journeybear

Tell you what. This is one of the strangest episodes I've encountered on eBay. Not that I've been that active there, but still ... 

I don't understand why the seller doesn't just rewrite the description. Instead, he keeps adding to it, creating a running dialogue between himself and whomever may be keeping an eye on the developments. That doesn't matter a bit - all that matters is having a description that will make the instrument sound desirable. All this play-by-play blather is much more likely to send anyone curious running far and fast.

Seriously - is this kind of yammering going to make anyone want anything to do with him or the item?

 ATTENTION.... ive been scolded about my listing heading saying ANDOLIN instead of MANDOLIN.   in the heading they only allow so many letters,i used too many and it chopped off the M.  but i didnt know until i was told,that noone would know what it was  so i corrected for those who might mistake it as a different instrument called an ANDOLIN.            AN ANDOLIN IS ONLY MADE FOR WOMEN  WHO DONT WANT THE WORD MAN IN IT.   AND IT WAS MADE BY A WOMEN ONLY FOR WOMEN.  MADE BY  ANN  DOLIN.  LOL       I FIGURED ID EXPLAIN THIS AFTER BEING BEAT UP OVER IT.

Please - just correct the copy. Trim it way down, keep it to the point, *no caps*, maybe you'll sell the blessed thing. It's a *description,* not a rant. And for goodness' sake, change it to "3-point," remove "Gibson," and find out how to spell the builder's name!  :Laughing:

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## Petrus

I'm still going to be fair to the seller in this case, knowing nothing of him other than what I've read here. Just judging by the ad itself, it is actually a fine looking instrument.  The squid inlay is really well executed.  I like the elongated soundhole.  It seems like a fairly well-built one-off.  The photos are adequate compared to some placements I've seen.  If the written description were more professionally done and it had a more reasonable opening bid (say $500), I'd give the item a good shot at getting sold at a good price, maybe $700-900, who knows.

I do a lot of business on eBay, buying and selling (I just reviewed my 2014 activity ... sheesh, did I really buy over 100 picks in about 7 separate transactions?)  I spend the majority of my time as a seller on two things: _item description_ and _photography_.  On eBay, as opposed to old fashioned flea markets, you have to be your own copywriter.  Spend a little time learning how its done; it's not that hard to write solid copy that sells the sizzle without being dishonest or confusing to the reader. Respect the prospective bidders and they'll be more likely to bid.

Take the most professional photographs you know how (if you don't know how, do some research on how to do it.)  Black foam board makes great backdrop to make the item stand out; no one wants to see your living room or kids' toys lying around the item in question.  Take the full amount of photos allowed (12), make a good mixture of up-close and full-item shots in focus. Highlight and call attention to problem areas (nicks, dings, etc.)

Don't play bidders for fools.  I don't like reserve prices and have never used them.  If you want to start an item at a floor price for your own protection, do so (as was done, correctly, in the ad under discussion, even if it is a little bit high in some folks' opinions.)  I don't like having to guess or to keep making bid after bid to find out if I've hit the magic number.

I don't mind "Buy It Now" only items; some times they're preferable for items you think might work with impulse purchasers. No muss, no fuss. IMO, they seem to work better with lower priced items.  For a bunch of picks or some fittings, I'd rather grab them up quick with a BIN for $20-50 than fool around with a low level auction. (Same thing when selling.)  But putting a five-figure instrument on a BIN seems pointless, imo; be prepared to have it sit there a long time unless the price is amazingly good or it's a really high-demand collectible, like an original Gibson.

BTW: "No returns" policy is sort of pointless on eBay.  You are more or less required to accept any return if the buyer claims it was "not as described."  I've been bit by this policy a few times as a seller, and it hurts; but as a buyer, it's favorable, so it evens out.  Still, maybe it makes returns too easy for some folks.  I had one item (a cheapo $100 fiddle) come back as "not as described" and when I asked the buyer what exactly was "not as described" about it, he wasn't interested in providing details, he just wanted his money back.  Still, better to take the loss than get a negative feedback.

----------


## rubydubyr

> I don't understand why the seller doesn't just rewrite the description. Instead, he keeps adding to it, creating a running dialogue between himself and whomever may be keeping an eye on the developments.
>  ATTENTION.... ive been scolded about my listing heading saying ANDOLIN instead of MANDOLIN.   in the heading they only allow so many letters,i used too many and it chopped off the M.  but i didnt know until i was told,that noone would know what it was  so i corrected for those who might mistake it as a different instrument called an ANDOLIN.            AN ANDOLIN IS ONLY MADE FOR WOMEN  WHO DONT WANT THE WORD MAN IN IT.   AND IT WAS MADE BY A WOMEN ONLY FOR WOMEN.  MADE BY  ANN  DOLIN.  LOL       I FIGURED ID EXPLAIN THIS AFTER BEING BEAT UP OVER IT.
> 
> Please - just correct the copy. Trim it way down, keep it to the point, *no caps*, maybe you'll sell the blessed thing. It's a *description,* not a rant. And for goodness' sake, change it to "3-point," remove "Gibson," and find out how to spell the builder's name!


OMG...... Seriously, this is just too funny!!!!!!

----------


## Petrus

P.S.  The "make an offer" option is a mixed blessing.  Sometimes it can be a waste of time and you end up with a bunch of lowballers.  As a buyer, it's usually pretty obvious what sort of best offer a seller is looking for.  I.e., an item listing for $450 will often go on a best offer of $425.  Low enough to cancel out the shipping, basically.  Note that eBay tells you how many other people are watching an item.  If you see an item with 20 watchers, don't waste time; I wouldn't even use the Best Offer button because the seller has probably already gotten a bunch of them.  If there are no other watchers and the auction is nearing its end, you could get a good offer in there.

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## mrmando

Or, a lowball offer can be a way of letting a seller know he's asking too much. But I suppose most sellers who ask too much are too thickheaded to realize it. 

I'm thinking of a particular instrument in Texas that has been offered at $1,500 for the past 18 months. It's another idionsyncratic instrument by an unknown builder, and looks like it would be fun to mess around with, play if it turns out to be playable, or hang on the wall if it isn't ... but I ain't spending $1,500 on an instrument with so many question marks. Neither is anyone else, and the only person who seems unable to grasp that concept is the seller, who threatened to "report [me] to eBay" if I made any more $300 offers. 

Or, there's the famous Eric Lange Flatiron mandolin, whose seller started it at $2,750 and has come all the way down to $1,340 over multiple listings, and seems to want to find out the hard way that no one will bid until he reduces the price another $1,040. Both of these guys are going to take it on the chin in listing fees before all is said and done, but in the end, you can't fix stupid.

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## journeybear

> OMG...... Seriously, this is just too funny!!!!!!


Actually, it's pretty sad ...  :Frown:  Maybe I'm being funny, but I'm also serious - and it's sad. I mean, I don't like having to talk to or about someone who can't or won't figure out something so painfully obvious.

Oh well!  :Whistling:

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## Petrus

> Neither is anyone else, and the only person who seems unable to grasp that concept is the seller, who threatened to "report [me] to eBay" if I made any more $300 offers.


Why would you make the same offer more than once if it gets turned down once?

Anyway, there is an easy option for sellers on the Best Offer selection; you can enter in a floor price below which any offer is automatically rejected. On a $1500 item the seller can put in a floor of, say, $1000; any lower offers get rejected, anything higher passes through for seller acceptance or decline.

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## Colin Lindsay

> First of all this is an ebay seller who's information is likely to be incorrect. I find that to be pretty normal.


What on earth do you buy??  :Smile: 
Most of the guys I deal with are totally honest. Having said that, in 12 years of eBay buying and selling I’ve only ever had three problems, one of which led to a formal dispute - and out of all the things I buy, two of these problem purchases were musical instruments that I bought and were found to be misdescribed and damaged….   :Smile: 

Another point re Petrus’ post; the last instrument I tried to sell - my Fylde OM - had 78 watchers… but not one bid. So the number of watchers doesn’t always tally with the number of potential bidders. Left me a bit miffed, that did…  :Frown:

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## mrmando

> Why would you make the same offer more than once if it gets turned down once?


Because I'd like to think that a seller who lists something at the same price for 18 months with no bidders might eventually develop the capacity to take a hint. But I guess that's wishful thinking.



> Anyway, there is an easy option for sellers on the Best Offer selection; you can enter in a floor price below which any offer is automatically rejected.


Yes, but a seller who's too thick to realize that his instrument isn't worth $1,500 on eBay is evidently also too thick to know about the floor price option.

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## Bernie Daniel

I've had several exchanges with this seller.  He/she resists and is resentful of any advice. 

The seller even *complains* about people who "insisted" that the title line contain "mandolin" instead of "andolin".   This seller does not understand the concept of eBay searches and that his instrument might not even come up with "andolin" in the title?  

I think the selller is honest (100% feedback) but just doesn't get mandolins at all.  And even with 98 transactions under the belt, does not understand eBay very well either.

The seller can't see that listing John Whitaker (or whomever) in the title is not a draw, that calling it a 5-point mandolin (instead of a 3-point F-2 copy) just adds confusion, that asking for a $1500 opening bid for a no name mandolin makes no sense, that his/her assurance that it sounds like a "high quality" mandolin is a run-of-the-mill assertion and that providing four not-so-great quality pics does little to convince a buyer that it is a quality mandolin and so on. 

Too bad because  if he/she had listed it in a normal eBay auction I am sure the would have been bids at least.  I spent some time communicating with the seller because I thought I could help and increases the interest.  I think you can see from some of the comments that there is a little genuine interest on the part of some of our members.  It MIGHT be a nice mandolin actually.

I doubt that this is a *$1500 mandolin* -- but even if it was, the seller has little chance of getting that price with such a sorry looking add.  Just *editing* the description with some spelling, punctuation, and complete sentences would be a big plus and a blessing!

You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink........................

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## Bernie Daniel

> Because I'd like to think that a seller who lists something at the same price for 18 months with no bidders might eventually develop the capacity to take a hint. But I guess that's wishful thinking.


Indeed!   But there is the virtue of stubbornness in this world.............

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## journeybear

> The seller even *complains* about people who "insisted" that the title line contain "mandolin" instead of "andolin".   This seller does not understand the concept of eBay searches and that his instrument might not even come up with "andolin" in the title?


Nor that it is a really good idea to spell correctly the name of the item you are trying to sell.  :Disbelief:  Guess that's too obvious.  :Confused: 




> I think the seller is honest (100% feedback)


I believe so, too. Not trying to be deceptive at all. Just clueless.  :Frown: 




> The seller can't see that listing John Whitaker (or whomever) in the title is not a draw, that calling it a 5-point mandolin (instead of a 3-point F-2 copy) just adds confusion, that asking for a $1500 opening bid for a no name mandolin makes no sense, that his/her assurance that it sounds like a "high quality" mandolin is a run-of-the-mill assertion and that providing four not-so-great quality pics does little to convince a buyer that it is a quality mandolin and so on.


True, true, true, true, and - OK, but I don't think the pictures are all *that* bad. I mean, I've got a pretty good idea of what it looks like. And the picture of the headstock is a classic.  :Wink: 



I am particularly fond of the careful consideration that went into the selection of the background. The lighting is pretty cool, too. That said, I do think this shows *exactly* what it looks like. FWIW!  :Disbelief: 




> I doubt that this is a *$1500 mandolin* -- but even if it was, the seller has little chance of getting that price with such a sorry looking add.  Just *editing* the description with some spelling, punctuation, and complete sentences would be a big plus and a blessing!


Between what you've said and what I've said before, if he doesn't get the message, he never will.  :Crying: 




> You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink


Yah. And you can lead a stubborn mule to a stream of thought but you can't make him think.  :Wink:

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## jaycat

What irks me is the description of the squid as being a "giant" one. It's actually the smallest one I've ever seen.

----------

Petrus, 

Timbofood

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## Jeff Mando

> Because I'd like to think that a seller who lists something at the same price for 18 months with no bidders might eventually develop the capacity to take a hint. But I guess that's wishful thinking.


I've run across three types of sellers on eBay:

1. People who are actually trying to sell, like me.  I have bills to pay every month, so I like when somebody makes an offer.  And I often will take an offer that is a little lower than I hoped for.

2. People who are selling consigned items that they have no emotional attachment to and often don't know much about the item.  Also, they have no interest in discounting the item, because the owner has set the price.

3. People who don't need to sell.  They get a check every month or have a wife with a good job or are independently wealthy.  Technically, they are not actually in "business".  They will list an item until they get their price.  Maybe for the sport of it or bragging rights.

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## Bernie Daniel

> ...Yah. And you can lead a stubborn mule to a stream of thought but you can't make him think.


Oh I love that variation -- I know just the person I am going to spring it on!!!!!

----------

journeybear

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## Bernie Daniel

> I've run across three types of sellers on eBay:
> 
> 1. People who are actually trying to sell, like me.  I have bills to pay every month, so I like when somebody makes an offer.  And I often will take an offer that is a little lower than I hoped for.
> 
> 2. People who are selling consigned items that they have no emotional attachment to and often don't know much about the item.  Also, they have no interest in discounting the item, because the owner has set the price.
> 
> 3. People who don't need to sell.  They get a check every month or have a wife with a good job or are independently wealthy.  Technically, they are not actually in "business".  They will list an item until they get their price.  Maybe for the sport of it or bragging rights.


Interesting break down -- sounds exactly right to me.  This fellow is a classic #2 seller!   :Smile:

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## Bernie Daniel

> What irks me is the description of the squid as being a "giant" one. It's actually the smallest one I've ever seen.


Picky picky...but no matter how big they get they are all just s p e r m whale burgers in the end.

Started to say hard to believe this string is over 90 posts... then I stopped and realized that we are lucky it isn't over 190 -- this being an important topic and all................

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## Jim Nollman

1. No evidence anywhere that this is a giant squid. It is, however, a squid. And absolutely the most unique mando inlay I have ever laid eyes on. Like Larry Sherman, I feel that the combination of 3 points, squid inlay, and long oval sound hole conspire to make this instrument almost impossible to resist. But I'm holding back until I get some better pictures of what looks like very funky binding. As is, I still have to secure my hands behind my back with duct tape when I view it on EBay. 

2. If this rather seductive mandolin had a sound file attached to it, and it sounded half as good as it looks, then it would certainly be worth half the postured (sincerely, this is the word my sound checker chose after I wrote "poste") price. After reading through 4 pages of this entertaining thread, I'm wondering who among the many posters here  would then be rendered incapable of resisting its charms. Mrmando, that includes you.

3 Don't knock EBay. It's  a great place to find bargains for lots of things, even though not quite as great a thrift store as it was years ago when in its "wild west" phase. With over a hundred purchases,  I have only ever had a problem with one EBay seller, and wouldn't you know, it was for a mandolin received with a cracked neck joint. I complained to EBay about it, and when my photo of very old grime inside the joint rebutted the sellers flabby claim that UPS broke it,  they threatened to revoke his EBay license. He repaid me exactly what it cost me to get a luthier to fix the joint. All for an ancient  Kay wavy-top.

----------

Petrus

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## mrmando

Well, Jim, you know more about marine life than I do. If I do end up with it somehow, I'll be sure to let you play it.

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## Pete Summers

> Actually, it's pretty sad ...  Maybe I'm being funny, but I'm also serious - and it's sad. I mean, I don't like having to talk to or about someone who can't or won't figure out something so painfully obvious.
> 
> Oh well!


Maybe this guy doesn't actually want to sell it. Maybe he took it on consignment, found out he liked to play it and wants to hang on to it until the "elderly" lady he got it from croaks and he gets it?? Hard to otherwise explain why he makes purchasing it such a task. Also, it doesn't sound like English is his native language.

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## barney 59

> What on earth do you buy?? 
> Most of the guys I deal with are totally honest. Having said that, in 12 years of eBay buying and selling I’ve only ever had three problems, one of which led to a formal dispute - and out of all the things I buy, two of these problem purchases were musical instruments that I bought and were found to be misdescribed and damaged….  
> 
> Another point re Petrus’ post; the last instrument I tried to sell - my Fylde OM - had 78 watchers… but not one bid. So the number of watchers doesn’t always tally with the number of potential bidders. Left me a bit miffed, that did…


I didn't say "dishonest" who said dishonest? I said that it is not uncommon for people to be selling an item such as an instrument that they don't have the proper facts about. Often they are just repeating hearsay in their description.I think there was a bunch of that in this listing being discussed. But-- Gibson mandolins with incorrect dates of manufacture--or seeing the patent numbers on hardware and dating the instrument to that year, I can't tell you how many times I've seen that..,the name Lloyd Loar being thrown around in listings some claim to provenience that is either worthless or unprovable . It goes on and on... There are a lot of people that know quite a bit about mandolins on Mandolin Cafe and we correct each other back and forth often. I kind of expect that many sellers on ebay are not "experts"!  
I also have bought quite a bit via ebay and have for years and years and haven't hardly had any problems but mostly because I study the item and bring what I know to the transaction over and above anything that the seller claims!--- and actually the number of watchers doesn't mean anything at all---let's say for example an item gets discussed on Mandolin Cafe---people reading this post will probably go to the original listing to be able to follow the thread-I hit my "watch" button on this one and I won't be buying it --how many watchers do you think could be generated by a thread like this?
I have every Gibson mandolin presently on ebay on my watch list and always do I don't buy very many!

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## Russ Donahue

Wow.

There's another thread running that asks about "Things this forum has done for you in ways you didn't expect!"  

This thread is a perfect example of why I live in this community.  It's lively. It's interesting. It's informative.  And, its entertaining.  Can't believe I just read 95 posts about a mandolin with a squid on it. But I did, got some insights into ebay sales techniques, learned about some of my fellow Cafe goers' pet peeves and a whole lot about people.

Yee haw!

None of which I ever expected when I began reading this thread...

----------

Jim Nollman, 

Steve VandeWater

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## Russ Donahue

Can we take this to five pages?

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## rfloyd

I don't see why not.....

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## barney 59

It's pretty common on Mandolin Cafe that someone will bring up a mandolin by an "unknown maker" and it turns out that actually they are known at least to some Cafe member or members who will endorse or pan the instrument . It doesn't seem to be happening in this case,which is too bad, because  at $1500  that is not a bad price or conversely is a good price for a handmade mandolin,squid or no squid. The squid meant something to the maker and I can't see anything from the pictures that suggests that it is poorly made. The seller is a doofus of sorts and claims that it is "Better than ANY Gibson" doesn't help his case here!

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## mrmando

I'd want better photos to be able to judge the binding work. Either the headstock binding is loose or there's a little gap between the binding and the headplate that has been filled with some kind of dark material ... or at least that's how the grainy headstock photo looks to me. There was a photo of the back on which the binding looked pretty clean.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Wow.
> 
> There's another thread running that asks about "Things this forum has done for you in ways you didn't expect!"  
> 
> This thread is a perfect example of why I live in this community.  It's lively. It's interesting. It's informative.  And, its entertaining.  Can't believe I just read 95 posts about a mandolin with a squid on it. But I did, got some insights into ebay sales techniques, learned about some of my fellow Cafe goers' pet peeves and a whole lot about people.
> 
> Yee haw!
> 
> None of which I ever expected when I began reading this thread...


Yes it is even better than sleeping at a Holiday Inn  Express!!!!!!

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## barney 59

Also: To the seller, if you are in fact following this thread --- &--not to toot our own horn but then, why the heck not! I wouldn't want to venture a guess at how many ebay instruments have realized sales and possibly much higher prices than maybe would have happened after being discussed and endorsed on Mandolin Cafe.  I feel safe to say "lots"! Advise and corrections that you receive from Cafe members should not be dismissed out of hand. Members and readers of these forums buy mandolins!  and Boy do we! A Google search for "mandolin and squid" will probably bring someone right here now that we've discussed it and anyone can follow these threads. My personal suggestion ? "Would you PLEASE drop the reference to Lloyd Loar from your description?!" That reference is a little insulting to those of us that know that the "Squidbilly" mandolin has nothing in common with an actual Loar signed instrument and I doubt that your intentions are dishonest but unfounded references can make it seem that way!

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## Jim Nollman

I wrote the seller an email:

Love the squid, hate your pics. By the way, this shape mandolin is called a three-point. One tip, you do yourself a real disservice by falsely linking this instrument to Lloyd Loar. If you are OK fibbing about this,  any potential buyer is going to be wary believing  anything else you say about this instrument. Anyway, for me to become serious about buying this $1500 instrument, I  really need some CLEAR pictures of the binding, the fingerboard, and a side view of the bridge, nut and strings, just to judge if there's any warping. Your fuzzy photo of the head looks like the binding is separating.

----------


## journeybear

So ... Are you expecting a favorable response? One in which he embraces his shortcomings and promises to take your suggestions to heart and improve his ad? Best of luck with that!  :Laughing: 

It's more likely he will see you as one of the guys he complains about "being beat up over it." Some people - make that, lots of people - can't take criticism because they can't accept even the possibility they may have made a mistake. They get really defensive, and rather than admit to their error, will lash out at the person making even the slightest suggestion of an error - no matter how obvious - and the more you continue, the more they dig in their heels. It's a losing game, an exercise in futility. And a waste of a good man's time.  :Frown: 

Personally, if I were of a buying frame of mind (thank goodness I am not), I might take a run at this one. This seller ought to take a look at it, and use it as an example of how to present an item. Lots of pictures, of virtually every aspect of the instrument, a brief, focused description - and this vintage instrument of reliable quality is sitting at an opening bid at less than half of the price of his oddball item of dubious quality.   :Disbelief:  I'll grant that the Gibson is offered with a reserve price, so no idea where that is at, but still this is something he could learn from. If he were of a mind to learn, which it seems pretty clear he is not. So it goes ...  :Whistling:

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## Jeff Mando

> It's more likely he will see you as one of the guys he complains about "being beat up over it." Some people - make that, lots of people - can't take criticism because they can't accept even the possibility they may have made a mistake. They get really defensive, and rather than admit to their error, will lash out at the person making even the slightest suggestion of an error - no matter how obvious - and the more you continue, the more they dig in their heels. It's a losing game, an exercise in futility. And a waste of a good man's time.


I ask myself similar questions when I sell on eBay--namely, why do two very similar items bring different prices on eBay?  It should be obvious (but isn't to most people) that one ad is better---better pics, better detail, more informative, more fair starting price--than the other.  Take a common guitar like a used Fender made in Mexico Stratocaster--granted Fender guitars are in demand, but there are a flood of them out there.  But again, some sell for $150 and some can bring $400 or more.  I'm trying to figure out how to be the guy that gets the $400 for mine.  A lot of eBay is following up--when someone emails, they expect a quick, polite answer--not a complaint from the seller.  Sure, a lot of it is a nuisance to the seller, but keep in mind with mail order, there is bound to be more "hand holding" involved when walking the buyer through the process.  I used to think if a buyer sent more than two or three questions about an item, that they were potentially trouble and I would "nuke" them. (block them from bidding)  But now I think it is just part of a process.  And let's face it, if you are trying to get $1500 from somebody you don't know, you have to do a little work, don't you?  Another thing that should be obvious (but isn't sometimes) is that as the price goes up, the customer demands go up accordingly.  There is an art to good selling.  And, I've said this before, but I like to think a "good deal" is a good deal for both parties involved.

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## journeybear

I agree with all that, pretty much. And that is pretty much all good common sense. So much so, in fact, that I am baffled why this seller isn't doing most of it!  :Confused:  He just seems clueless and contrary, almost combative, but most of all, self-destructive. He is doing so many things wrong it would be laughable if it weren't so ... sad.  :Frown: 

Note to seller (and anyone else interested, I suppose): This is what a Gibson F-2 *3-point* mandolin looks like. This is available on eBay for one more day, and at $500 more than the Squidolin, is a much better value, as far as I can tell, because it is a known quantity, a quality mandolin with a proven reputation. Compare, contrast, and revise your preconceived notions. Live and learn.

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## Petrus

> A lot of eBay is following up--when someone emails, they expect a quick, polite answer--not a complaint from the seller.  Sure, a lot of it is a nuisance to the seller, but keep in mind with mail order, there is bound to be more "hand holding" involved when walking the buyer through the process.  I used to think if a buyer sent more than two or three questions about an item, that they were potentially trouble and I would "nuke" them. (block them from bidding)  But now I think it is just part of a process.  And let's face it, if you are trying to get $1500 from somebody you don't know, you have to do a little work, don't you?


Very correct. Also, in sales they have what are known as "buying questions."  One quickly learns to spot buying questions and distinguish them from time-wasting questions.  Generally if you do several back and forth Q&As with positive responses, you have a good chance of having the person hooked.  It's really not that much work to send a few emails back and forth unless you're a huge operation with hundreds of items up, which most of us aren't.

Ebay also has a handy "best practices" guide on their site which few people apparently bother to read!

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...practices.html

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## Bernie Daniel

> I agree with all that, pretty much. And that is pretty much all good common sense. So much so, in fact, that I am baffled why this seller isn't doing most of it!  He just seems clueless and contrary, almost combative, but most of all, self-destructive. He is doing so many things wrong it would be laughable if it weren't so ... sad. 
> 
> Note to seller (and anyone else interested, I suppose): This is what a Gibson F-2 *3-point* mandolin looks like. This is available on eBay for one more day, and at $500 more than the Squidolin, is a much better value, as far as I can tell, because it is a known quantity, a quality mandolin with a proven reputation. Compare, contrast, and revise your preconceived notions. Live and learn.


Exactly!  This seller had a very nonbusiness-like attitude and he (actually it might well be a she) was resentful of all suggestions  -- even the suggestion to make the title of the add *accurate*.  

I made several informative and (*I thought*) helpful suggestions  -- I never dissed the mandolin at all.  In fact, I sensed there was a bit of genuine interest in the instrument in the MC community and maybe the seller could actually move it if she cleaned up her add.

For sure, this seller was totally ignorant about mandolins yet was still hostile to information about them.  

I noted (as a point of information) that what she was selling was really a copy of an early Gibson F-2 three point and that this description would be understood by potential buyers.   This suggestion was considered to be a put down of her and of the mandolin.  Go figure.

In my experience, this individual was not typical of the eBay seller community.  

For example one reply from her started with -- "you might have mistaken me for someone who gives a sh*t whether this sells or not"  -- this from the person who OFFERS an item for sale?  Brilliant. 

Another comment (paraphrasing here)  "if this does not sell it will never be posted again after the way I have been "beat up" on this auction".  Beat up?

She implied we all had had our "chance" to buy it - so it was the buyer's loss.  Silly.

A seller who seems to be misguided at least.   End of rant.

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## Larry S Sherman

> This is available on eBay for one more day, and at $500 more than the Squidolin, is a much better value, as far as I can tell, because it is a known quantity, a quality mandolin with a proven reputation.


Yes, and the Gibson 3-point you referenced has a truss rod too. The Squidolin does not.

Larry

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## mrmando

Er, but the Gibson F2 should NOT have a truss rod, and in fact it looks like the headstock was spliced on. There are plenty of questions about that mandolin that the seller has not addressed. So, although he/she is not complaining or being openly hostile, he/she isn't going to sell that mandolin for that starting bid. Not quite as clueless as our friend with the Squidolin, but still not getting the job done. I can at least tell that the Squidolin hasn't suffered the attentions of Dr. Frankenstein, so I would probably take it over that particular F2.

----------

journeybear

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## Petrus

> For example one reply from her started with -- "you might have mistaken me for someone who gives a sh*t whether this sells or not"  -- this from the person who OFFERS an item for sale?  Brilliant.


The only answer to that is "I guess so."   :Frown:

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## journeybear

> Er, but the Gibson F2 ...


Hmmm ... I shall defer to your (and anyone's) greater knowledge in this and plenty other areas. My point was more that the seller of the Squidolin should take a little time and learn about these things before jumping in and making unfounded, unsubstantiated, unreasonable claims. And in so doing understand the difference(s) between what he's got and what his description says. And he should really pay more attention to what people much more knowledgeable about these things have to say, instead of being defensive and dismissive. 

That said, I'd be curious to hear what the new owner (if someone takes a chance on it) has to say about it. Or if someone living nearby (I believe lenf12 lives in Clearwater, even) would take it upon him/herself to visit the seller and post some impressions.

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## Jim Nollman

The sellers cogent point to me was that she is struggling to get by.  She has previously sold a few guitars on EBay, which prompted a friend to ask her to put this up for sale. It's a beautifully designed and rather unique instrument, so although she knows nothing about mandolins, she did it expecting a quick sale. 

When the questions started, she didn't know enough to answer them properly. Plus she has no stake in it, so she's not willing to do any more work such as taking better photos. As some here have experienced, she hasn't been forthcoming with her questioners, mostly because she's so annoyed at having taken it on in the first place. Not only doesn't she care if it sells, she is counting the hours until the sale is over and she can be finished  with it.  

I personally hope someone else will re-list it. If they read this thread, they're bound to provide better info and pics.

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## Larry S Sherman

> When the questions started, she didn't know enough to answer them properly. Plus she has no stake in it, so she's not willing to do any more work such as taking better photos. As some here have experienced, she hasn't been forthcoming with her questioners, mostly because she's so annoyed at having taken it on in the first place. Not only doesn't she care if it sells, she is counting the hours until the sale is over and she can be finished  with it.


FWIW, the seller replied to my questions promptly and courteously.

Larry

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## F-2 Dave

It's amazing to me how quickly the word 'squidolin' has found it's way into the Cafe's vernacular, to be used as easily and commonly as mandola, violin, etc.

----------

Marty Jacobson

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## journeybear

It's_ "The Squidolin."_  :Wink:

----------

Petrus

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## journeybear

All right, kidding aside, I hope we haven't been too harsh on the seller. I think a lot of the observations made and advice and suggestions offered in this thread were pretty much on target, though some of the invective got a bit heated, mine included. I hope the seller understands we bear her no ill will. We just are more familiar than she with how eBay works, and how best to use it to one's advantage. And when a seller offers an item for bid with so many aspects of the item and the ad so far from the norm, it's a nearly irresistible temptation to have some fun with it. Nothing personal, not really, just a bit of sport.

I wish her well on her next try at selling this. But I sincerely hope she takes our advice to heart, and makes an effort to present the instrument fittingly, and price it accordingly, so it will sell. It wouldn't hurt to have it appraised by a music store or luthier in her area, and get a description written by someone who has some experience with mandolins. This would go a long way toward succeeding in this venture.

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## Marty Jacobson

Let's see... how many of us can say we own a genuine squidolin?

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## F-2 Dave

> It's_ "The Squidolin."_


Apologies. No offense to squid or squid fans intended.

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## journeybear

Tread lightly. It's a slippery slope.  :Wink:  And remember - if you should own one. don't throw it onto the ice at a Detroit Red Wings playoff game. That's for an octopus.  :Whistling:

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## mrmando

I offered $600. Seller told me someone else had offered $750, but the owner's widow won't take less than $1500. 

I dunno ... maybe the widow should look for a more capable seller rather than hoping this one will turn over a new leaf.

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## Bernie Daniel

> All right, kidding aside, I hope we haven't been too harsh on the seller. I think a lot of the observations made and advice and suggestions offered in this thread were pretty much on target, though some of the invective got a bit heated, mine included. I hope the seller understands we bear her no ill will. We just are more familiar than she with how eBay works, and how best to use it to one's advantage. And when a seller offers an item for bid with so many aspects of the item and the ad so far from the norm, it's a nearly irresistible temptation to have some fun with it. Nothing personal, not really, just a bit of sport.
> 
> I wish her well on her next try at selling this. But I sincerely hope she takes our advice to heart, and makes an effort to present the instrument fittingly, and price it accordingly, so it will sell. It wouldn't hurt to have it appraised by a music store or luthier in her area, and get a description written by someone who has some experience with mandolins. This would go a long way toward succeeding in this venture.


Exactly.  The help offered was just that and it was not appreciated.  ANY disparaging or unfriendly invectives that were in my email exchanges (all thorough eBay messaging) were ALL from the seller herself.  

This seller was needlessly defensive and apparently either paid almost no attention to suggestions offered, or did not understand them.  

It appears to me that the seller perhaps got a bunch of hype and/or mis-information from the owner as well. And perhaps the owner was merely passing on what she knew of her spouse's hobby.  If he built it and told her it was a good as a Gibson --- well what's she gonna  say?   :Wink: 

So info from the add such as, "it sounds as good as a Gibson"  (and obviously the seller does not play mandolin) and that there were six made of which "...four are in a museum in Ohio" had to be from the owner.

So the seller was in a box, and I can sympathize with that -- but most folks respond the offers of help more tactfully.

As to the offer of $750. Perhaps that is a reference to my suggestion that the mandolin be offered in a real auction (with bidding) and my guess was it would sell for about half of what was asked.   This comment was a mistake on my part because I think it made the seller think I was actually a potential buyer and was just trying to work a lower price. I tried to correct that by assuring I had no interest in it but the damage was done!  :Smile:

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## Jeff Mando

Regardless of the seller's poor people skills, if the owner wants $1500, the seller's hands are tied.  All she can really do, is report any offers back to the owner and see if the owner wants to lower the price and entertain an offer.  

I avoid consignments for this reason, but once in a while I will try to help a friend market an instrument and I've been in this situation before.  The seller is probably thinking her husband paid "x amount" for it and $1500 sounds like a good price, but really doesn't know the market.  The owner might be afraid of being taken advantage of.  My mother was in a similar situation when dad died and a lot of "vultures" swooped in and tried to buy his stuff cheap, but she was savvy enough to be suspicious.  Usually the seller is working for a tiny percentage or maybe working free, if it is for a friend.  I have told consignors, that eBay and Paypal basically take 14 percent off the top, then I would like 20 percent for my time (also explaining that Paypal reports my sales to the IRS and I have to pay taxes) well, usually by then the consignor decides that they would not be happy with 66 percent and decides not to consign it with me.  But that is OK, because it usually isn't worth the hassle unless I'm making a couple hundred dollars.  I'm guessing that is the case here, that the seller's hope of quick money has passed the point of diminishing returns.

----------

journeybear

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## mrmando

I sort of got the impression that the seller was attempting to do a quick favor for the owner's widow and hadn't asked for any percentage. 

I have to report that I had several email exchanges with the seller and there wasn't any belligerence in them ... s/he did try (albeit feebly) to answer my questions. Apart from not knowing what makes a good eBay ad, the seller is not a detail-oriented person, not familiar with mandolins, and has below-average written English skills ... and poured his/her frustration into the item description and some of his/her interactions with other folks.

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## Bernie Daniel

> I sort of got the impression that the seller was attempting to do a quick favor for the owner's widow and hadn't asked for any percentage. 
> 
> I have to report that I had several email exchanges with the seller and there wasn't any belligerence in them ... s/he did try (albeit feebly) to answer my questions. Apart from not knowing what makes a good eBay ad, the seller is not a detail-oriented person, not familiar with mandolins, and has below-average written English skills ... and poured his/her frustration into the item description and some of his/her interactions with other folks.



Well I wish her luck.  I did suggest selling it in the MCC but she might not be up for that. I do plan to run down the four mandolins in a museum story though but I was too busy today.  Maybe Wednesday.....

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## mrmando

If not the Tuttle museum, it may be the Wood County Historical Museum in Bowling Green. Seller wasn't real clear on this point, probably because the owner's widow wasn't real clear on it either.

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## Larry S Sherman

The seller reports that they found a buyer at the asking price. 

My interest wouldn't have extended beyond $800ish, and I certainly don't _need_ a 3-point Squidolin. If it actually did sell I'm quite happy for both the sellers and new owner.

Larry

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## mrmando

> I'm quite happy for both the sellers and new owner.


I'm happy for the new owner, anyway. 

We know that threads like these translate into more eyeballs on the thing being discussed, whether we are praising it or dissing it. So now I wonder if the buyer is someone who saw the thread and became more interested in the Squidolin itself than in slapping the seller around.

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## journeybear

> I have told consignors, that eBay and Paypal basically take 14 percent off the top, then I would like 20 percent for my time (also explaining that Paypal reports my sales to the IRS and I have to pay taxes) well, usually by then the consignor decides that they would not be happy with 66 percent and decides not to consign it with me.  But that is OK, because it usually isn't worth the hassle unless I'm making a couple hundred dollars.


That's what is called a "nuisance fee," and worth every penny. One doesn't want to bother with this sort of mishegoss unless it's worth one's while.

Well, I'm glad this story has had a happy ending - depending on the new owner's appraisal of the quality of the The Squidolin. Personally, I wouldn't care to own an instrument with something so eccentric on the headstock - and I mean, not only odd, but off-center - but that just may be my personal taste. I prefer something more symmetrical and less representational - though I daresay I could get accustomed to something like a flower pot.  :Wink:

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## pfox14

I once knew a Lloyd Lane and he had a sister named Lois.

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## Jeff Mando

<Removed by Moderator. This is a family forum. Please refrain from this sort of inappropriate attempts at humor.>

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## barney 59

<Removed by Moderator. This is a family forum. Please refrain from this sort of inappropriate attempts at humor.> 
 So did the AUCTION close with a buyer? Ya know after all of the weird back and forth and good natured ribbing that this person had a very thin skin about it could be that they are just saying that to look good in front of a bunch of strangers. She might not "give a *%#" about it ever selling but might about not looking wrong or foolish in front of a bunch of internet no ones! We got six pages out of this thing and we'll see that mandolin again!!

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## Bill Snyder

It ended with no biids.

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## journeybear

Yes, but:



> The seller reports that they found a buyer at the asking price.


Apparently this was arranged privately.

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## Bernie Daniel

> ..... Ya know after all of the weird back and forth and good natured ribbing that this person had a very thin skin about it could be that they are just saying that to look good in front of a bunch of strangers..... We got six pages out of this thing and we'll see that mandolin again!!


I agree no way of knowing if that is what actually happened -- a "buyer" who does not bid $1500 on auction and then calls up afterward to offer $1500 anyway?  Possible but certainly not typical.   Or likely?  

And yes I'll second that thought -- we'll see that mandolin again.  

In fact, I see it a LOT!   

It has taken over as my main nightmare now. I used to wake up screaming that I had overslept on the morning of the oral exams for my doctorate back in '74!  Now I wake up realizing that all my mandolins have gone cold and slimy and have squids on the head stocks!  :Disbelief:

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journeybear

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## Jim Nollman

Let's all agree that this has been one of the all time great Cafe threads. So let's all offer a hearty toast to the seller. Bernie, I'm sure you're happy to supply the champagne.

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## Tobin

> It has taken over as my main nightmare now. I used to wake up screaming that I had overslept on the morning of the oral exams for my doctorate back in '74!  Now I wake up realizing that all my mandolins have gone cold and slimy and have squids on the head stocks!


Just keep chanting this over and over: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!"

It will all be over soon, I promise.

----------

Chip Booth, 

Rob Zamites

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## Bernie Daniel

> Let's all agree that this has been one of the all time great Cafe threads. So let's all offer a hearty toast to the seller. Bernie, I'm sure you're happy to supply the champagne.


I heartily concur! The champagne will have to be virtual though!  :Wink:

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## Bernie Daniel

> Just keep chanting this over and over: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!"
> 
> It will all be over soon, I promise.


Even if I could I would be wary of that one -- sounds like something you might use to move the tectonic plates?

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## Tobin

> Even if I could I would be wary of that one -- sounds like something you might use to move the tectonic plates?


It was a reference to HP Lovecraft and the Cthulhu mythos.  The motif on this mandolin, coupled with your dreams, is a sure sign that we are all about to be eaten.  That's how it starts!

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## Russ Donahue

> I heartily concur! The champagne will have to be virtual though!


cheers!

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## Timbofood

Bernie, that was a dandy vintage! Thanks for sharing! :Grin:

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## Jeff L

Been reading and absorbing everything I can on MC for several months and can't resist finally posting on this one.  I'm a total noob to music in general, but I actually like the look of that mandolin.  I don't $1500-like it, but I do like it quite a bit.  But I also find that I tend to like the odd/unique.  I'm one of those folks who tends toward A-style/non-sunburst look/wood grain on the front of an instrument.   

Anyway, for you folks who didn't like the squid, don't look at this, but for those that do, here's one that I randomly came across last week while searching for US luthiers http://www.outlierworkshop.com/f-model/.  Hopefully I don't make anyone's invertebrate dreams/nightmares worse.  But these creatures don't seem to bother me as much as some I guess.  :Grin:  

As someone who has done a fair bit of selling and buying on eBay (non-musical items) I wonder if this person would have been responsive to a helpful rewrite of the listing.  Perhaps if couched in terms of "I'm not in the market for this particular instrument, but would like to help you get it sold because it's a cool looking instrument.  Here's some text that would help answer questions for those in the market..."  Basically, kill 'em with kindness.  Perhaps encouragement would have helped since the person probably got overwhelmed with emails from others who knew more then they did.  While the folks on here were probably nice in their contacting the seller, I bet the seller got some really not-so-nice people emailing as well.  

Hopefully the person who bought it will post a sound clip/youtube video so we can all hear it.  It would be awesome if it turned out to be a total gem!

----------

Jackgaryk

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## FLATROCK HILL

Welcome to the Cafe! It's not many that show up here for the first time offering up such an elegant example of a Squidolin for persusal.  :Smile:

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## Jeff Mando

> As someone who has done a fair bit of selling and buying on eBay (non-musical items) I wonder if this person would have been responsive to a helpful rewrite of the listing.  Perhaps if couched in terms of "I'm not in the market for this particular instrument, but would like to help you get it sold because it's a cool looking instrument.  Here's some text that would help answer questions for those in the market..."  Basically, kill 'em with kindness.  Perhaps encouragement would have helped since the person probably got overwhelmed with emails from others who knew more then they did.  While the folks on here were probably nice in their contacting the seller, I bet the seller got some really not-so-nice people emailing as well.


I sell a lot on eBay, too.  I'm pretty good at identifying old guitar parts and what they originally went on.  Knowing what the part fits is the difference between getting 99 cents for something and sometimes getting $100, or more.  So, I often email a seller when they have misidentified something, in hopes of helping them out.  The reaction is mixed and sometimes I get a cold response--like being accused of being the "eBay Police" and basically telling me to mind my own business.  I think sometimes the seller feels their knowledge is being critiqued.  But, nobody can know it all, can they?  Other times, the seller is very grateful.  I recently saw a 70's Aria Les Paul copy in old brown case on eBay.  The seller claimed, "all original with original hard case".  He wanted $399 Buy It Now for the guitar.  It was very obvious to me that the case and guitar were from two different eras.  I emailed the seller and told him the case was from a 50's USA Magnatone guitar that sells for $5000-7500.  I told him a collector would gladly pay $500 for just the case and I suggested he list the guitar and case separately.  He thanked me and took my advice and did sell the case for $500.  I guess if I had more of a "Wall Street" mentality, I could have bought it and made a nice profit for myself, but instead decided to do him a favor.  However, I did get nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, as a result of "paying it forward"!  So, it all works out.  :Laughing:

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## Steve VandeWater

Jeff L, now _that_ is a Squidolin I would buy.  Very nice looking instrument!

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## Bernie Daniel

> Been reading and absorbing everything I can on MC for several months and can't resist finally posting on this one.  I'm a total noob to music in general, but I actually like the look of that mandolin.  I don't $1500-like it, but I do like it quite a bit.  But I also find that I tend to like the odd/unique.  I'm one of those folks who tends toward A-style/non-sunburst look/wood grain on the front of an instrument.   
> 
> Anyway, for you folks who didn't like the squid, don't look at this, but for those that do, here's one that I randomly came across last week while searching for US luthiers http://www.outlierworkshop.com/f-model/.  Hopefully I don't make anyone's invertebrate dreams/nightmares worse.  But these creatures don't seem to bother me as much as some I guess.  
> 
> As someone who has done a fair bit of selling and buying on eBay (non-musical items) I wonder if this person would have been responsive to a helpful rewrite of the listing.  Perhaps if couched in terms of "I'm not in the market for this particular instrument, but would like to help you get it sold because it's a cool looking instrument.  Here's some text that would help answer questions for those in the market..."  Basically, kill 'em with kindness.  Perhaps encouragement would have helped since the person probably got overwhelmed with emails from others who knew more then they did.  While the folks on here were probably nice in their contacting the seller, I bet the seller got some really not-so-nice people emailing as well.  
> 
> Hopefully the person who bought it will post a sound clip/youtube video so we can all hear it.  It would be awesome if it turned out to be a total gem!


Welcome to the  Mandolin Cafe -- what a timely bit of information!   Could there be a link?  Maybe that mandolin was inspired by the first one?  Nice looking mandolin too if you are into squids.

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## darrylicshon

I like that squid better Jeff L but it's still not for me

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## jaycat

> . . . Anyway, for you folks who didn't like the squid, don't look at this, but for those that do, here's one that I randomly came across last week while searching for US luthiers http://www.outlierworkshop.com/f-model/.  Hopefully I don't make anyone's invertebrate dreams/nightmares worse.  But these creatures don't seem to bother me as much as some I guess.


Ben Pearce is a nice kid. I still don't want a Squidolin, however.

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## journeybear

Welcome to the Café!  :Mandosmiley:  I'm not keeping track of these things, but that is probably one of the best first posts here in a while. Almost a shame it's about this topic ...  :Whistling: 

That is indeed some very nice inlay. A lot of work went into that. Why, I have no idea. But the use of the space available is very clever, particularly the tentacle going into the headstock scroll.  :Disbelief:  I'm sure this would be just the thing for just the right person. Not me, mind you ... but someone, perhaps a captain or avid fisherman, or Mrs. Paul herself, might find it's just the sort of thing that would float his/her boat.  :Grin: 

Man! Just when I thought we were out, someone reels us back in!  :Crying:

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## Jeff L

Thanks for the welcome everyone.  What can I say, I guess fate held me off from posting until now so I could make a big slash with my first post.  Or since this involves a squid, a big splat is probably more like it.  :Laughing: 

I don't fish or have any other connection to the ocean, but I really like it one for some reason.  Seemed like a work of art when I saw it.  Much better than the ebay one imo.  I understand that everyone has different tastes.  Would love to have one, but I'd be afraid to ask how much it costs.  I'm sure it's well outside my budget given that all I have at this point is an Eastman 305.  Now if anyone wants to get me a welcome-to-the-board-gift...  :Whistling: 

Maybe we need to start a favorite and/or oddest headstock thread?  I haven't come across such a thing in my time here so far, but I can't say that I've looked.  Perhaps it exists already.  I've looked through the scroll-related one.

----------


## Jeff L

To those who don't like these squidolins, I just don't understand how they don't... float your boat.  I'd... ink my signature on the dotted line to buy one if I had the $.  But it's probably out of my league.  I'll have to ride the tide of this mandolin thing and see where it takes me.  Maybe someday I'll take the plunge and buy something like this.  Hopefully the buyer of that other, lesser squidolin didn't take the ad hook, line and sinker.   :Grin: 

Okay it's been a long week.  On a more serious note, I'm curious for folks who don't like these, is it that you don't feel a squid belongs on a mandolin, the ornateness, a childhood run-in at the beach, something else?  Would a man-o-war work?  Perhaps it's a plant vs animal thing, squid vs fern?  Just curious.  Nothing wrong with not liking these.

----------


## journeybear

Well, besides it being just ... weird, it becomes a rather narrow conversation starter. People are going to ask what it's about, and if you don't have a good story ready, or really love squid, or even if you do, this is going to come up an awful lot. So that's distracting, and quite possibly, even probably, annoying. It's also bound to be distracting to audience members, too, who won't be able to take their eyes off it, and will spend time and thought wondering about it. I like calamari as much as the next guy, but still ... I'd much rather the thoughts and conversation be about music, mandolins, or even whether it's a ukulele.  :Wink:

----------


## Jeff L

Interesting point, journeybear.  Since I'm a long way from playing in front of any audiences, the idea of it being a distraction to them or getting a lot of questions about it's significance didn't really occur to me.

Perhaps a "No, this isn't a ukulele" headstock inlay could be the next million-dollar idea.  :Wink:

----------

journeybear

----------


## rubydubyr

> Been reading and absorbing everything I can on MC for several months and can't resist finally posting on this one.  I'm a total noob to music in general, but I actually like the look of that mandolin.  I don't $1500-like it, but I do like it quite a bit.  But I also find that I tend to like the odd/unique.  I'm one of those folks who tends toward A-style/non-sunburst look/wood grain on the front of an instrument.   
> 
> Anyway, for you folks who didn't like the squid, don't look at this, but for those that do, here's one that I randomly came across last week while searching for US luthiers http://www.outlierworkshop.com/f-model/.  Hopefully I don't make anyone's invertebrate dreams/nightmares worse.  But these creatures don't seem to bother me as much as some I guess.  
> 
> As someone who has done a fair bit of selling and buying on eBay (non-musical items) I wonder if this person would have been responsive to a helpful rewrite of the listing.  Perhaps if couched in terms of "I'm not in the market for this particular instrument, but would like to help you get it sold because it's a cool looking instrument.  Here's some text that would help answer questions for those in the market..."  Basically, kill 'em with kindness.  Perhaps encouragement would have helped since the person probably got overwhelmed with emails from others who knew more then they did.  While the folks on here were probably nice in their contacting the seller, I bet the seller got some really not-so-nice people emailing as well.  
> 
> Hopefully the person who bought it will post a sound clip/youtube video so we can all hear it.  It would be awesome if it turned out to be a total gem!


goodness, the squidolins abound unbounded  :Laughing:

----------


## Tobin

> Well, besides it being just ... weird, it becomes a rather narrow conversation starter. People are going to ask what it's about, and if you don't have a good story ready, or really love squid, or even if you do, this is going to come up an awful lot.


True, but with some good B.S., it could actually be a good conversation starter.  But on that subject, I've never had anybody ask about the significance of a flowerpot or fern.  Those aren't much of a conversation starter either.

----------


## Russ Donahue

> True, but with some good B.S., it could actually be a good conversation starter.  But on that subject, I've never had anybody ask about the significance of a flowerpot or fern.  Those aren't much of a conversation starter either.


Seven pages full of squid informed fun. Can it hit eight? 

What say you J Bear?

----------


## F-2 Dave

> True, but with some good B.S., it could actually be a good conversation starter.  But on that subject, I've never had anybody ask about the significance of a flowerpot or fern.  Those aren't much of a conversation starter either.


You mean, 'is that a squid on your mandolin, or are you just glad to see me?'.

----------


## Jeff L

How about an octopus (since the aversion to squid) made to look like its climbing into or out if an oval sound hole? Now that would start conversation... And nightmares. 

Seriously though I'm going to keep this luthier in mind if I get to the point of wanting something custom. I love the idea of giving the work to a US builder. And the more local the better though not required if a quality product. I'd be proud/happy to have an instrument like that.

----------


## Petrus

I don't get the squid aversion.  I find them fascinating creatures.  I find most undersea life pretty interesting, especially those critters that light up by themselves.  Jellyfish are neat too ... probably very difficult to cut an inlay of, though.

Now, spiders, OTOH, keep far away from me if you please.  I used to be an extreme arachnophobe -- I couldn't even bear to look at a picture of one in a book without getting the heebie-jeebies.  I've forced myself over the years to get somewhat tolerant of them to the point where I actually managed to collect several large plastic tarantulas, and I can actually touch them without freaking out.  So yes, we can learn and change if we try! You could even learn to love a squidolin.

----------


## journeybear

> True, but with some good B.S., it could actually be a good conversation starter.  But on that subject, I've never had anybody ask about the significance of a flowerpot or fern.  Those aren't much of a conversation starter either.


Spiders and octopi make sense - eight strings = eight legs or tentacles.  :Wink:  But still ... pretty ookie. My point is just that *I* wouldn't personally want to spend *any* time talking about whatever unusual inlay is on my instrument unless it is something that means something to me. If squid is your thing, go for it! Just not what  *I*  would want to spend time talking about.




> Seven pages full of squid informed fun. Can it hit eight? 
> 
> What say you J Bear?


Well, I don't want to go off on a rant here, but I have never thought comments like this are very useful. I don't see the point in them, nor in wondering how long or how many pages a thread will go. I don't mind discussing a subject until every aspect has been examined and everyone interested has chipped in. But I don't see what is to be gained by posting counts of posts and pages, especially since they just pad the count without really adding anything to the discussion.

I don't like running the risk of putting anyone's nose out of joint. And I'm sorry if I did. I don't mean anything personal, this is my general opinion on the subject. But you asked.

----------


## mrmando

> Now, spiders, OTOH, keep far away from me if you please.


Oh, you just gotta see this. 


There was a Rigel G110 decorated with a black widow motif ... I had it one year when I ran the Rigel booth at Wintergrass. Can't seem to find any photos of it, though.

----------

journeybear, 

Steve VandeWater

----------


## journeybear

Yeesh! That is a LOT of work put into something VERY creepy! It brings to mind some tattoos I've seen which made me wonder ... why?  :Disbelief:  Parts of this are way cool, though, especially the 3-D spider crawling onto the cover plate. Not my taste, but I'm impressed by the craftsmanship.

----------


## barney 59

Taken from the UMC (Universal Mandolin Code):
Article 17  - Bottom feeding undersea creatures of all types shall not be depicted on any part of any mandolin. This is to include,but not limited to, crabs,lobsters,bivalves of any kind,squid and members of the octopus family,starfish,urchins or rock fish of any type.

There are other statutes banning spiders or webs and Star Wars characters. (Siting in both cases that they are "just to creepy!")
It's my understanding that the permits for these two mandolins have been rescinded and if located will be impounded by the Enforcement Division of the Planning Department of the UMC .

----------

Russ Donahue

----------


## Bill Snyder

Well Barney, that begs the question, can parts of any of these creatures be used in decorating mandolins? I seem to have seen bivalve parts on a few mandolins in the form of inlay.  :Smile:

----------


## rubydubyr

> Oh, you just gotta see this. 
> 
> 
> There was a Rigel G110 decorated with a black widow motif ... I had it one year when I ran the Rigel booth at Wintergrass. Can't seem to find any photos of it, though.


ok, the squid didn't really bother me, in fact, it was kinda cool in a diff kind of way, but this?  absolutely YUCK

----------


## Timbofood

I have nothing against squid, calamari is a very nice use for it. I bet this will get to eight pages no problem!

----------


## journeybear

> I seem to have seen bivalve parts on a few mandolins in the form of inlay.


And I have *heard* many, many more bivalve parts on many mandolins - a few of them owned by myself - in the form of clams. Far too many to be counted, ever, and more being produced _all the time!_  :Laughing:

----------


## Jeff L

I'd wonder how long it takes to do these kinds of ornate inlays.  It's got to take a lot of patience, not to mention skill.  I assume the cost in time and materials is fairly prohibitive hence lots being fairly plain.

----------


## barney 59

Ever since the Pro-Degradation Wing of the Conservative Mandolin Party took control of the UMC they encourage the use of bivalve parts and particularly from endangered species  in the construction of mandolins as long as they are used in such a way so as to not depict the bivalve that they came from. Noting that " because of the nature of mandolin construction they do not do their fair share in the destruction of the environment." They also are recommending (from Article 23) "that all mandolins and specifically cases should be kept in a non- smoke free environment." Stating that to do otherwise "Ain't no part of nothin".
 The owners of these Squidolins can avoid permanent impoundment by agreeing to change the offending violation if and when the mandolins pass the required Tone Test.

----------

Russ Donahue

----------


## Jeff Mando

> I'd wonder how long it takes to do these kinds of ornate inlays.  It's got to take a lot of patience, not to mention skill.  I assume the cost in time and materials is fairly prohibitive hence lots being fairly plain.


UNLESS--you live in Viet Nam.  Then, ornate inlays are standard equipment!

----------


## barney 59

I think maybe that the Spider is not inlay or any type of marquetry but some other type of graphic process. Is this true? If it is inlay I am very impressed!  
My son recently acquired a  lazer cutter. He does techie stuff and is constructing some kind of drone. He demonstrated the machine to me making a pretty complicated piece.  Angles and perfectly placed holes and etched lines for placement of other parts.Total duration to manufacture the piece---21 seconds!--- to do something that would take me probably all day to do and I would be extremely lucky to do it as accurately! Using a machine like that to do inlay work I can imagine all types of extremely complicated and clever designs never seen before being possible and cost effective!

The UMC is in the process right now of addressing the use of such machines in the construction of mandolins.

----------


## jim simpson

I wanted to buy squid but instead I got scrod!

----------


## journeybear

I've heard that joke before, but never when it used the pluperfect subjunctive case.  :Wink:

----------

Timbofood

----------


## Mike Floorstand

Sorry to lower the tone with pedantry, but I think someone used the word "inveterate" earlier, when they meant "invertebrate".

Also for anyone who enjoys seeing threads running for many pages, note that you can change your settings so the site only displays 10 or even 5 posts per page. 

Great thread!

----------

Russ Donahue

----------


## Bill Snyder

> Sorry to lower the tone with pedantry, but I think someone used the word "inveterate" earlier, when they meant "invertebrate".
> 
> Also for anyone who enjoys seeing threads running for many pages, note that you can change your settings so the site only displays 10 or even 5 posts per page. 
> 
> Great thread!


Well if you want to get pedantic I guess I can too. In searching through the last few pages of this thread I found invertebrate used but I could not find inveterate used.

----------


## journeybear

Putting "inveterate" into the Search Thread function is all it takes: Post #57, in response to Post #55.




> OK so maybe you are an inveterate biologist? Or at least always wanted to be one but got hijacked by a mandolin?


Now, it's _possible_ Bernie meant what he said, implying that Larry could be a biologist who is unable to break his habit of studying life forms. However, I sense the unreasoning heavy hand of SpellCheck.  :Wink: 

In future, please don't leave something like that out where unreformed editors can see them. We are just the worst when it comes to trivial details.  :Whistling:

----------

Russ Donahue

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## Jeff Mando

8 pages and not even a mention of a Blue Chip!

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## journeybear

Well, you got one in. Whoop-de-doo.  :Sleepy:

----------


## Jeff L

Not sure there's been mention of the evils of banjo either.  :Popcorn:

----------


## Bill Snyder

I did not not look back far enough. I am hanging my head down low.

----------


## journeybear

And you missed *so* much.  :Frown:  Then again, you surely gained *so* much insight in the process of scanning through those posts.  :Wink:

----------


## Russ Donahue

I was thinking of trying out my blue chip pick on banjo today and was wondering if anyone had ever done this before?  I am currently working on this amazing Maritimes' song and thought that my blue chip pick and banjo would be an awesome combination. I am an inveterate singer, so I'll be "a-hoying" right along as well!

Squid-Jiggin Ground

Oh this is the place where the fishermen gather
In oilskins and boots and cape anns battened down
All sizes of figures with squid lines and jiggers
They congregate here on the squid-jiggin ground

Some are working their jiggers while others are yarning
There's some standing up and there's more lying down
While all kinds of fun, jokes and tricks are begun
As they wait for the squid on the squid-jiggin ground

There's men of all ages and boys in the bargain
There's old Billy Cave and there's young Raymond Brown
There's a red ranting Tory out here in a dory
A-running down squires in the squid-jiggin ground

There's men from the harbour; there's men from the tickle
In all kinds of motor boats, green, grey and brown
Right yonder is Bobby and with him is Nobby
He's chawin hard tack on the squid-jiggin ground

God bless my sou'wester, there's skipper John Chaffey
He's the best hand at squid-jiggin here I'll be bound
Hello! What's the row? Why he's jiggin one now
The very first squid on the squid-jiggin ground

The man with the whiskers is old Jacob Steele
He's getting well up, but he's still pretty sound
While Uncle Bob Hawkins wears six pairs of stockings
Whenever he's out on the squid-jiggin ground

Holy smoke, what a scuffle, all hands are excited
'Tis a wonder to me that there's nobody drowned
There's a bustle, confusion, a wonderful hustle
They're all jiggin squids on the squid-jiggin ground

Says Bobby "The squids are on top of the water
I just got me jiggers about one fathom down
But a squid in the boat squirted right down his throat
And he's swearing like mad on the squid-jiggin ground

There's poor Uncle Billy, his whiskers are splattered
With spots of the squid juice that's flying around
One poor little boy got it right in the eye
But they don't give a darn on the squid-jiggin ground

Now if ever you feel inclined to go squiddin
Leave your white shirts and collars behind in the town
And if you get cranky without your silk hanky
You'd better steer clear of the squid-jiggin ground

(The squid is a cuttlefish used as bait. It moves in along the Newfoundland coast from August
to October and fishermen head out with their jiggers - fish hooks, to catch them in dorys)

----------

journeybear, 

Steve VandeWater

----------


## Russ Donahue

Good Gawd! Did I just do that?

I am sooooo sorry.

----------


## journeybear

OMG!  :Disbelief:  Is that a real song?  :Confused:  Wow!  :Disbelief:  Well, maybe it makes sense. You live in  a state where in the 1800s its citizens looked down on lobsters and considered them food fit for poor folks and prisoners.

----------


## rubydubyr

Then old Jacob Steele got mad at The Tory
Who sang in his boat out on the sound
Praising King Georgie back over the sea
And trouble's a brewing in squid jigging ground!

Old Jacob grabbed up his trusty sharp steel
And Skipper John Chaffey jumped into the fray
Bobby and Nobby dropped their tack on the ground
And poor Uncle Billy just got in the way.

Old Jacob shouted out at poor Bill,
"You move out the way, for I'll be bound
No harm's meant for you, it's that Tory I'll kill!"
And bad trouble's brewing on squid jiggin ground.

But poor Uncle Bill'd left his ear horn
Back up the beach it lay on the ground,
And old Jacob ran poor Bill through and through,
There's bad trouble now on squid jiggin ground.

Now old Jacob Steele is surely to hang
He waits in the jail upon his sure fate
Skipper John Chaffey says that hanging's too good
"We should all take him out to become lobster bait!"

----------


## Russ Donahue

Yee-haw! Or should I dance a "jig" at the extra verses?

----------


## Mike Floorstand

> Now, it's _possible_ Bernie meant what he said, implying that Larry could be a biologist who is unable to break his habit of studying life forms. However, I sense the unreasoning heavy hand of SpellCheck.


I'm fairly sure Bernie intended to say "invertebrate", but not at all sure if he meant a "scientist dedicated to the study of invertebrate organisms", or alternatively a "biologist (without, or regardless of, any particular specialism) who is himself spineless"?

I experience a similar confusion when reading about "short film directors"...

 :Grin:

----------


## rubydubyr

> Yee-haw! Or should I dance a "jig" at the extra verses?


no, write the next part   :Grin:

----------


## journeybear

> I experience a similar confusion when reading about "short film directors"...


I may be remembering this wrong, but I think Cecil B. DeMille was somewhat diminutive. And he made some BIG movies.

There's a sign over the CT Turnpike at one point for "Four Mile River Road." I've always wondered: Is the river or road four miles long?  :Confused:  If it's the former, does the road go to the river or along it?  :Confused:  I know that now, with a click of a button or two, I could find the answer to this perplexing question. But that would just take all the fun out of it.  :Whistling:

----------


## rubydubyr

Hmmm, more does not seem to be forthcoming, so i'll add just a bit more.......

Then Bobby and Nooby said "We will not!
We're not lawless bandits here in our new land!
We came here a searchin our freedom to find,
And we'll not have Jake's blood on our squid jigging sand!"

"Aye", said the skipper now hangin his head,
"Not thinkin was I that I'd bear that shame,
And my bairns that come after would shoulder it too,
I'll not bring that sorrow upon their good name!"

And in days to come the Judge passed his rule,
And Jacob Steel hung for his crime on the sand,
And as the years passed forgotten was he,
As peace came again to squid jigging land.

And now banjos play and boxes are squeezed
And teenagers dance on that squid jigging ground,
And mandolins play and sometimes there's a shout
When young Billy does play "The Squidolin's Found"!

----------


## Russ Donahue

Very wonderful stuff Rubydubyr.

Well done!

----------


## rubydubyr

tyty  :Smile:

----------


## journeybear

I think I was thinking of Erich von Stroheim, who played the part of "Mr. DeMille" in "Sunset Blvd." He wasn't really that short at 5'7", slightly less than average (perhaps short by Hollywood standards), it's just that the movies got bigger.  :Wink:   :Grin:   :Whistling:

----------


## Jeff Mando

> I experience a similar confusion when reading about "short film directors"...


The one that confuses me is "miniseries" VS "ministries"

----------


## barney 59

> I think I was thinking of Erich von Stroheim, who played the part of "Mr. DeMille" in "Sunset Blvd." He wasn't really that short at 5'7", slightly less than average (perhaps short by Hollywood standards), it's just that the movies got bigger.


Not so short by Hollywood standards,  quite a few actors are shorter than they appear on screen. Tom Cruise,Stallone and Arnold particularly. I once was someplace where Arnold was and was surprised at how small he actually is compared to the giant he usually portrays on screen.  "There are no small parts, just small actors!" is a famous saying. I always thought that it meant something else but maybe it was more literal.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> ...Now, it's _possible_ Bernie meant what he said, implying that Larry could be a biologist who is unable to break his habit of studying life forms. However, I sense the unreasoning heavy hand of SpellCheck. 
> 
> In future, please don't leave something like that out where unreformed editors can see them. We are just the worst when it comes to trivial details.






> I'm fairly sure Bernie intended to say "invertebrate", but not at all sure if he meant a "scientist dedicated to the study of invertebrate organisms", or alternatively a "biologist (without, or regardless of, any particular specialism) who is himself spineless"?
> 
> I experience a similar confusion when reading about "short film directors"...


Hmmmmm as a person with a bachelors in biology and a PhD in biochemistry albeit from a previous century -- that was without doubt a genuine  :Redface:  moment in my spotted MC posting "career".   Yes I expect the old spell check did me in on that one but rest assured I have enough *backbone* live it down!!  And thank you for bring that blunder to everyone's attention!  LOL!   :Smile:

----------

journeybear

----------


## Russ Donahue

That was very graciously put Bernie.

----------


## Jim Nollman

I seem to recall that one of the jigs I play regularly, which i usually refer to as: "larry O'Gaff" also has an alternate name of "The squid-jigging jig". Ruby, would that be of the same melody as the tune you quote above?

----------


## rubydubyr

Actually, Russ did the quoting, the verses I posted were my own creation and not part of the actual song lyrics.  I am not familiar with the tune, and never saw the lyrics before today.  So sorry, and sorry for any confusion my "fun" might have caused.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> That was very graciously put Bernie.


Thanks!
ANYTHING to keep the thread alive is my pleasure.

----------


## journeybear

> quite a few actors are shorter than they appear on screen.


Yes, yes, but the subject was *directors'* heights. I had a deuce of a time finding anything, and of course, using the phrase "short film directors" returned many more hits for short films than short directors.  :Grin:  Other than Martin Scorsese at 5'4", I didn't find others that qualified in the time I allotted for this oh-so-important task. Unless you want to count Danny DeVito, which I don't. Though technically ...  :Whistling:

----------


## Bernie Daniel

The search for extra-terrestrial life pales in comparison to our efforts to find the connection between squids, mandolins, and short movie directors.  We are now over 200 posts, exceeding expectations!  Congratulations to all of the contributing writers and artists.  So proud to be a small part of this epic effort.   Enjoy!

----------


## Timbofood

JB, Eric Von Stroheim didn't play DeMille, he played the butler who had been Gloria Swansons (Norma Desmond) husband and director with the walls of his office covered in black patent leather.
DeMille played DeMille in the scene where she visits the set.
I'm Jurevis Jaycat can double check this if he is so inclined, it's not a Bogart film but surely a classic anyway.

----------


## journeybear

Yes, that's why I said "'Mr. DeMille,"' as in, "I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille." But thanks for the opportunity to use that particular punctuation combination.  :Wink: 

BTW, the real DeMille was 5'7". 

PS: No need to bother jaycat. This is all provided by imdb.com, one of my favorite web sites.

----------


## Timbofood

Love spellcheck? "Jurevis"???
That started out in life as "surely"! JB, I have a feeling that this may just start another "line from movie"  facet to add to the "Bogart quotes"
All over  a Lloyd Lane thread?

----------


## jaycat

> . . .
> PS: No need to bother jaycat. . . .


Thank God.

Hey wasn't there a WC Fields movie where he kept calling someone "My Little Squidgelum (sp?)?"

----------


## Timbofood

No idea, worth a minute of searching.

----------


## jaycat

Couldn't find much on that topic. However . . .

 "Whilst traveling through Afghanistan, we lost our corkscrew. Had to live on food and water for several days."

----------


## Timbofood

I never drink water, I think of all the disgusting things fish do in it!

----------


## journeybear

I understand W. C. Fields had something similar to say on the subject, though he was more specific about the aforementioned fishes' activity.  :Wink:  Thank you for cleaning up the language and making it more palatable for delicate sensibilities.  :Smile:

----------


## Timbofood

JB, now I realize I forgot the "quotes" 
That is the "clean" version which was posted at a W.C. Fields quote site. I had always heard the more "colorful" version before, but, this may be from a film not common conversation.
I suppose one could substitute squid for fish for the porpoises of this thread....
Sorry, I am going to me corner now.

----------


## journeybear

I think it's more likely from a conversation. A bit too risqué for movie dialogue at the time, I reckon.  :Wink: 

But yes - to your corner!  :Laughing:

----------


## FLATROCK HILL

> Love spellcheck? "Jurevis"???
> That started out in life as "surely"! JB, I have a feeling that this may just start another "line from movie"  facet to add to the "Bogart quotes"...


"Well if jurevis police, where are your badges?"

And now I'll retire to my own corner.

----------


## Timbofood

Badges? We don't need no badges!

----------


## Russ Donahue

This thread is like one of the best bar-room conversations I've ever had with a bunch of great friends while pleasantly tipsy heading towards drunk and careening all over the place in terms of topics!  Mandolins! Squids! Cecile B. DeMille! Arachnids! W.C. Fields! Martimes Music! Blue Chip Picks! Banjos! More Squid! Biologists! Extraterrestrials!

Thank you my friends for all this great fun....

----------

rfloyd

----------


## rubydubyr

I've nevvvvvvvvvver had a tipsy conversation.......  :Whistling:

----------


## journeybear

It's true - we meander with the best of 'em!  :Laughing: 

But this is unlike a barroom bull session, where what is said recedes into hazy, besotted memory, while what is said here may be preserved for posterior - uh, posterity  :Redface:  - so it behooves us to get things right:




> BTW, the real DeMille was 5'7".


I don't know how  :Disbelief:  but I messed up. That's Von Stroheim's height. DeMille was 5'11".

As you were ...  :Whistling:

----------


## Timbofood

Huh, wha...? I forget what he said.

----------


## journeybear

All right! Time for another round!  :Grin:   <hic!>

----------


## Jeff L

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but we might need to come up with a different name.  Looks like squidolin is already taken by the supposedly self-teaching violin: http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/sq...f-violins.html  But mandosquin just doesn't role off the tongue the same way.  :Crying:

----------


## journeybear

Mmm ... Well, if that's a trademarked name, he can have it. I mean, if he *really* wants it, and he *really* thinks he's going to sell them with that name, it's all his. Especially if it's trademarked, copyrighted, patented, branded, whatever it takes. Fine. Good luck to you. 

  

But what we have here is actually a The Squidolin, AFAIC. Not that it's in the same league as The Gibson, The Weber, The Loar, or The Ohio State University.  :Cool:  But it's a one-of-a kind instrument (AFAWK, not having seen the other five known products of luthierie from Mr. Whittaker, Whitaker, Whitacer,or Witacer - however it's spelled), and though it may not have that official moniker, that's what is meant in these pages by that term. 

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  :Wink: 

PS: Looks like squidolin.com is a dead link. That article is from 2009, after all. Too bad for him. But I think we're good to go.  :Wink:

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## Jeff L

Yeah, I noticed that squidolin.com was taken as well, but not working.  :Frown:   But lots of the other domain suffixes are still available if someone is inclined to put up a site honoring all the unholy offspring of mandolins and invertebrate sea-dwellers.

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## Timbofood

Squidolin.ink?
Back to the bar :Wink:

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journeybear, 

Steve VandeWater

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## Jeff L

I was thinking squidol.in   :Grin:

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Steve VandeWater

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## jim simpson

I was hoping by now that some cafe member might have shown up as the owner of the squidolin. I wonder if anyone near the museum that houses one or so of these mandolin might have visited to confirm the existence of the creatures.

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## Capt. E

I really don't know what is better, the giant squid carved into the headstock or that it's brothers are in the Black Swamp Museum. I think this is fodder for a low budget horror movie..."Ohio Mandolin Massacre".

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jim simpson

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## Russ Donahue

I'm just thankful to see this thread hasn't been abandoned. It has been such a source of wonder and enjoyment.

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jim simpson

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## jim simpson

> Been reading and absorbing everything I can on MC for several months and can't resist finally posting on this one.  I'm a total noob to music in general, but I actually like the look of that mandolin.  I don't $1500-like it, but I do like it quite a bit.  But I also find that I tend to like the odd/unique.  I'm one of those folks who tends toward A-style/non-sunburst look/wood grain on the front of an instrument.   
> 
> Anyway, for you folks who didn't like the squid, don't look at this, but for those that do, here's one that I randomly came across last week while searching for US luthiers http://www.outlierworkshop.com/f-model/.  Hopefully I don't make anyone's invertebrate dreams/nightmares worse.  But these creatures don't seem to bother me as much as some I guess.  
> 
> As someone who has done a fair bit of selling and buying on eBay (non-musical items) I wonder if this person would have been responsive to a helpful rewrite of the listing.  Perhaps if couched in terms of "I'm not in the market for this particular instrument, but would like to help you get it sold because it's a cool looking instrument.  Here's some text that would help answer questions for those in the market..."  Basically, kill 'em with kindness.  Perhaps encouragement would have helped since the person probably got overwhelmed with emails from others who knew more then they did.  While the folks on here were probably nice in their contacting the seller, I bet the seller got some really not-so-nice people emailing as well.  
> 
> Hopefully the person who bought it will post a sound clip/youtube video so we can all hear it.  It would be awesome if it turned out to be a total gem!


As noted in this thread, Ben Pearce made a ""squidolin", lol! Ben is featured in the current issue (March, 2017) of Bluegrass Unlimited's Annual Instrument Issue. Here is the threads original squid headstock and Ben's more refined squid headstock.

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## Jeff L

I have to say, I like the old one better.  But I always liked that one, whereas many folks didn't.  I guess I'm weird.   :Grin:

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## Jeff L

Thanks for sharing that though!  That's really cool to see the evolution and to hear that his work is getting exposure.

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## jim simpson

Feeling nostalgic for sea life themed mandolins, I found this Mermaid headstock on a Sorensen (Reverb):

Still sorry I let the squidolin slip away, lol!

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## Vernon Hughes

Here's one I did, not exactly sea life but water life just the same.

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## jim simpson

> Here's one I did, not exactly sea life but water life just the same.


Very nice Vernon!

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Vernon Hughes

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## jim simpson

The squid (thread) must not die! I found this Franzke headstock shot while looking for something else this morning.  I felt it belonged in this hall of greats. I realize this may not be a squid but close enough, lol!  I still wonder what became of the original Squid mandolin from Ohio.  :Smile:

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## Dave Hanson

Looks like an octopus to me.

Dave H

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## journeybear

I concur. It even has the requisite eight tentacles.

But I am grateful for the revival of this fascinating thread. Quite an amusing one it is! I just spent the better part of an hour re-reading it; I'd quite forgotten about it. Perfect hangover medicine.  :Wink:  And it is indeed a shame we never heard the outcome of it, whatever happened to the cause of it all and who bought it, and whether it sounded all right or just a little fishy.  :Whistling: 

I do wish someone had taken the time to post the pictures from the ad for posterior. I guess this slipped under Jim Garber's sonar.  :Frown:  Glad I thought to post a picture of the headstock that started all this ruckus - at post #86!  :Disbelief: 




> Started to say hard to believe this string is over 90 posts... then I stopped and realized that we are lucky it isn't over 190 -- this being an important topic and all................


Well, we left that assessment in the dust!  :Laughing:

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## Richard500

I do wish someone had taken the time to post the pictures from the ad for posterior.

Have the feeling that’s the fate of a lot of stuff I write.

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## journeybear

We have the headstock; that's the most important part. But yeah, several people mentioned the low quality and lacking utility of the photos. Wish I could see what they meant. Oh well!

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## jim simpson

> I do wish someone had taken the time to post the pictures from the ad for posterior.
> 
> Have the feeling thats the fate of a lot of stuff I write.


I have since learned to upload photos from any Ebay ad I'm posting about for this reason. I too regret having not posted the photos from the ad. Here is the headstock with background removed. I can't remember what the body looked like other than a vague memory of a non-trad oval sound hole.

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