# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > CBOM >  Just received my first bouzouki - Help :)

## Sound Chaser

Hi everyone!

I'm new here, well, I'm an old reader of the board but it's the first time that I post, thanks for activating my account  :Smile: 

I received my first bouzouki last week and as it's a new instrument for me (I own a mandolin but it's not the same, and I'm mainly a guitar player), I'm not sure about tuning and the choice of strings. I read some topics here about it and it seems to be a common question asked...

My bouzouki is a Concert Irish Bouzouki by Hora:
http://www.hora.ro/concert_bouzouki.html

As soon as I received it, I tuned it in GDAD. It sounds great but I wonder if it's tuned in the right octave as the strings are not very tight. But again it sounds great to me so maybe it's just a question of gauge and strings?

I was surprised to have octave bass pairs (G and D) because I thought octave bass pairs was for Greek bouzouki, that's why I'm a bit confused...

Anyway, if I change the strings and change for unisson strings, I'm a bit concerned about the bridge because the slots on the bridge are made for octave strings. Can I change for unisson strings all the same?

It's be great to know more about all this, your help would be very appreciated  :Smile: 

Thank you  :Mandosmiley:

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## Lord of the Badgers

Hi there
G2 D3 A3 D4 (unison) I believe

If the bridge is compensated for octave pairs, I guess you could find a friendly luthier to make you a unison one. I have the opposite, i took the hit of using octaves on a unison bridge. 

My forster will be unison, so be interesting to compare!

and... congrats  :Smile:

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## DavidKOS

> Hi everyone!
> 
> 
> My bouzouki is a Concert Irish Bouzouki by Hora:
> 
> 
> As soon as I received it, I tuned it in GDAD. It sounds great but I wonder if it's tuned in the right octave as the strings are not very tight. But again it sounds great to me so maybe it's just a question of gauge and strings?
> 
> I was surprised to have octave bass pairs (G and D) because I thought octave bass pairs was for Greek bouzouki, that's why I'm a bit confused...


I used to sell those Romanian made flat back bouzoukis at LITM, and in spite of the "Irish" name they do come string for Greek Bouzouki tuning, CFAD; thus your bass string are in octaves and will be too loose tension at G and D pitches.

Nice basic instruments, they are a good value. They didn't call them "Irish" in previous years, either.

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## Lord of the Badgers

also it depends - playing more tunes I guess you would have to have unisons. Many find the jump in tone from Octave pairs to the A / D higher strings in unison to be not nice. 

I've gotten by with octave pairs as I use it for backing or for songs I'm writing, i like the shimmery sound

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## DavidKOS

> also it depends - playing more tunes I guess you would have to have unisons. Many find the jump in tone from Octave pairs to the A / D higher strings in unison to be not nice. 
> 
> I've gotten by with octave pairs as I use it for backing or for songs I'm writing, i like the shimmery sound


Greek bouzouki players *expect* the octaves in the low D or C and F strings, depending on if it is a 3 or 4 course bouzouki.

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## DavidKOS

> If the bridge is compensated for octave pairs, I guess you could find a friendly luthier to make you a unison one. )


If they have not changed the design, the bridge is uncompensated.

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## Sound Chaser

> I used to sell those Romanian made flat back bouzoukis at LITM, and in spite of the "Irish" name they do come string for Greek Bouzouki tuning, CFAD; thus your bass string are in octaves and will be too loose tension at G and D pitches.
> 
> Nice basic instruments, they are a good value. They didn't call them "Irish" in previous years, either.


It's a bit weird... But then I'm wondering if I can replace the strings by strings of higher gauge?





> also it depends - playing more tunes I guess you would have to have unisons. Many find the jump in tone from Octave pairs to the A / D higher strings in unison to be not nice. 
> 
> I've gotten by with octave pairs as I use it for backing or for songs I'm writing, i like the shimmery sound


I love the actual sound but the fact that the strings are a bit too loose in GDAD surprised me so I wanted to understand  :Smile: 




> If they have not changed the design, the bridge is uncompensated.


I'm not sure but the slot of the higher string looks smaller than the one for the lowest string which seems quite logical to me...

Thank you for your help 👍

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## DavidKOS

> It's a bit weird... But then I'm wondering if I can replace the strings by strings of higher gauge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the actual sound but the fact that the strings are a bit too loose in GDAD surprised me so I wanted to understand 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes you can replace the strings with thicker ones to tune them to a higher tension, but I wouldn't go too heavy as those are not heavily built instrument (that's OK, I like lighter weight ones).

The strings are just a bit off - the low C is only tuned down a 4th, the C only a minor 3rd, so the strings would work, but not quite as well as if they were correctly gauged for GDAD.

As for the bridge - and nut - if correctly slotted the maker will use thinner slots for the thinner strings and thicker slots for the bigger strings.

You may need to slightly enlarge the two pairs of low string slots if you use thicker strings and/or go to unison stringing.

Enjoy playing!

and nice Les Paul in your avatar.

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## Sound Chaser

Thanks for your help David!

It's quite playable actually but I think it could be a bit tighter. I asked Hora to tell me what gauge is used on this model.

I did a small video to show how it sounds but forget the awkward playing  :Wink:  : 



What do you think?

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## derbex

If it's any use I found the hora tuning guide.

I like the sound -very different from my Buchanan OM, much 'brighter' for want of a better term.

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## Sound Chaser

Yes Derbex, very useful guide. I was searching for information to know if I was well tuned and found it and using the frequencies, I could tell that I was in the right octave.

I really like the sound as well, it's very bright and very powerful with a lot of sustain. I admit I was surprised because I know this is definitely not a high end instrument but it's a very nice surprise. I'm not sure that I will change for the unisson strings as I like the sound, it's just that the strings are a bit loose but it's quite comfortable to play.

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## Sound Chaser

Hora replied to me about the strings gauge but I'm not ssure to get it...




> The gauges of our octave strings are 0.30 0.30 0.40 0.40 0.60 0.30 0.85 0.35 mm
> If you wish to replace with unison strings, the gauges are 0.30 0.40 0.65 0.90 mm

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> If it's any use I found the hora tuning guide.
> 
> I like the sound -very different from my Buchanan OM, much 'brighter' for want of a better term.


They show the right tuning for an octave mandolin but .....




> Hora replied to me about the strings gauge but I'm not sure to get it...


The strings that are on the instrument are for Greek tuning, hence the unison tuning at GDAD would require 2 .65mm and 2 .90mm strings. 

Notice that the original thicker low strings are a bit lighter, .60mm and .85mm.

You should be set with those extra strings and a tiny bit of adjusting the slots.

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## Martin Jonas

> Thanks for your help David!
> 
> It's quite playable actually but I think it could be a bit tighter. I asked Hora to tell me what gauge is used on this model.
> 
> I did a small video to show how it sounds but forget the awkward playing  : 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?


That sounds nice.  This appears to be a new Hora model, rather fancier than their standard bouzouki.  It looks to me that it's based on the same underlying design, but with a nicer stain, a soundhole rose instead of the (ugly, in my opinion) scratchplate inlay, and a much nicer-looking chunky ebony bridge with a slanted saddle for compensation rather than their flimsy standard bridge.  As the bridge was always the weak point of their setup, that's likely to be a big improvement.

I have one of their standard zouks, but fortunately a custom model (through Troubadour) without any inlay or stain, and have replaced the bridge myself.  Mine sounds fairly similar to yours.

As for string gauges, the scale length is 660mm, almost exactly twice standard mandolin scale.  So, using standard mandolin string gauges for GDAE tuning will give you the same string tensions as for a mandolin.  I think my string gauges are medium-light mandolin gauges, 11-37 or something like that.  Unfortunately, while most mandolin string sets (e.g. d'Addario) are far longer than needed for mandolins, they aren't quite long enough for the zouk, so you'll need to either buy a pre-made set for bouzouki in those gauges or buy single strings.

Martin

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DavidKOS

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## Sound Chaser

> They show the right tuning for an octave mandolin but .....
> 
> 
> 
> The strings that are on the instrument are for Greek tuning, hence the unison tuning at GDAD would require 2 .65mm and 2 .90mm strings. 
> 
> Notice that the original thicker low strings are a bit lighter, .60mm and .85mm.
> 
> You should be set with those extra strings and a tiny bit of adjusting the slots.


I understand but I don't find any model of strings with this gauge, but only this kind of strings : http://www.thomann.de/fr/daddario_j9..._greek_set.htm




> That sounds nice.  This appears to be a new Hora model, rather fancier than their standard bouzouki.  It looks to me that it's based on the same underlying design, but with a nicer stain, a soundhole rose instead of the (ugly, in my opinion) scratchplate inlay, and a much nicer-looking chunky ebony bridge with a slanted saddle for compensation rather than their flimsy standard bridge.  As the bridge was always the weak point of their setup, that's likely to be a big improvement.
> 
> I have one of their standard zouks, but fortunately a custom model (through Troubadour) without any inlay or stain, and have replaced the bridge myself.  Mine sounds fairly similar to yours.
> 
> As for string gauges, the scale length is 660mm, almost exactly twice standard mandolin scale.  So, using standard mandolin string gauges for GDAE tuning will give you the same string tensions as for a mandolin.  I think my string gauges are medium-light mandolin gauges, 11-37 or something like that.  Unfortunately, while most mandolin string sets (e.g. d'Addario) are far longer than needed for mandolins, they aren't quite long enough for the zouk, so you'll need to either buy a pre-made set for bouzouki in those gauges or buy single strings.
> 
> Martin


Thank you Martin  :Wink:  It's not the first model in their range, it's the Concert version which seems to be a bit more well made  :Smile: 

It's a bit weird not to find easily strings for this particular model, I probably don't look where I should...

By the way, sorry for my awkward english  :Wink:

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## DavidKOS

> I understand but I don't find any model of strings with this gauge, but only this kind of strings : http://www.thomann.de/fr/daddario_j9..._greek_set.htm


No, those are for Greek tuning CFAD.

perhaps

http://www.juststrings.com/dad-js81....FZFefgod1YYA_A

D'Addario Irish Bouzouki Phosphor Bronze, J81

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## Martin Jonas

> http://www.juststrings.com/dad-js81....FZFefgod1YYA_A


Which makes my point: the gauges on these J81 zouk strings are almost identical to J74 mandolin gauges (.016 on the A instead of .015, but otherwise the same), so that the main difference is the length.

From my experience with these Hora zouks, I would go slightly lighter.  These are very lightweight instruments that don't respond well to being overstrung.

Martin

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## Sound Chaser

But I don't understand the gauge numbers that Hora gave me (sorry) : 0.30 0.40 0.65 0.90 mm

Most of the time, it's something like 10-40 so what do they mean by 0.90mm?

There's something I'm missing  :Redface:

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## DavidKOS

> Which makes my point: the gauges on these J81 zouk strings are almost identical to J74 mandolin gauges (.016 on the A instead of .015, but otherwise the same), so that the main difference is the length.
> 
> From my experience with these Hora zouks, I would go slightly lighter.  These are very lightweight instruments that don't respond well to being overstrung.
> 
> Martin


Martin's right, these are not heavily built instruments. Do not overstring!




> But I don't understand the gauge numbers that Hora gave me (sorry) : 0.30 0.40 0.65 0.90 mm
> 
> Most of the time, it's something like 10-40 so what do they mean by 0.90mm?
> 
> There's something I'm missing


They are giving mm sizes instead of inches.

http://www.metric-conversions.org/le...-to-inches.htm

convert measurements

.65mm is app.  .026"

.90mm is app. .034"

I don't want to make an error, and there's a big difference between .034 and .40, so maybe this is not the best set for your instrument.

Thanks, Martin.

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## scifi

Do the new Horas have a trussrod? That could maybe allow a wider range of string gauges.
Referring to your video they sound much better than the old ones :-)
And it looks like the body is deeper. Very nice.

Can you mount ballend strings or only loopend?

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## Sound Chaser

> Martin's right, these are not heavily built instruments. Do not overstring!
> 
> 
> 
> They are giving mm sizes instead of inches.
> 
> http://www.metric-conversions.org/le...-to-inches.htm
> 
> convert measurements
> ...


Oh yes, of course, stupid question!! It's clearer for me now  :Smile:  Thanks  :Smile: 




> Do the new Horas have a trussrod? That could maybe allow a wider range of string gauges.
> Referring to your video they sound much better than the old ones :-)
> And it looks like the body is deeper. Very nice.
> 
> Can you mount ballend strings or only loopend?


Thanks  :Smile: 

I don't know it it's a new model actually, it's just not the first model in their range.
http://www.hora.ro/concert_bouzouki.html

It seems like there is a trussrod, I'm quite surprised but I can see it through the hole of the body.

About the loopend, I'd like to tell you but I don't succeed in removing the "plate" protecting the end of the strings  :Redface:

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## DavidKOS

> About the loopend, I'd like to tell you but I don't succeed in removing the "plate" protecting the end of the strings


Those covers may be very tight - gently and firmly keep pulling up.

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## Sound Chaser

Indeed, very tight, because it's I guess... I'm scare to break something  :Laughing: 

So now I know (according to Hora specifications) that I need a set of strings of these gauges :

D 11
D 11
A 15
A 15
D 23
d 11
G 33
g 13

But it's hard to find! The closest set I found is this one : http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/strin...s-11-30w-p7644

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## garryireland

> Those covers may be very tight - gently and firmly keep pulling up.


I had one of the cheaper models when i started playing and i really think gently softly is the way to go with these zouks.  I used to use unison. 34, . 24,. 16,. 11 i think although i now use. 40,.30,.18,.12 but wouldn't use those on the Hora

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## Sound Chaser

Do you remember which brand of strings it was Garry?

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## garryireland

> Do you remember which brand of strings it was Garry?


Yeah sure check out Eagle Music in th UK.  They have the set in their bouzouki string section

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## Steve L

> Those covers may be very tight - gently and firmly keep pulling up.


Are you guys talking about pulling up on the tailpiece cover?  From what I can see in the video, those covers slide, not lift.  You should apply pressure on the end facing the soundhole and the cover is supposed to slide off away from the body.

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## garryireland

> Are you guys talking about pulling up on the tailpiece cover?  From what I can see in the video, those covers slide, not lift.  You should apply pressure on the end facing the soundhole and the cover is supposed to slide off away from the body.


From what i recall yeah thats the way to do it! But gently!

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## DavidKOS

Some slid up, some slid back - either way go slow and gently.

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## James Rankine

It seems like this is a step up from their previous model. The truss rod should deal with the worries of using thicker string gauges. I'm glad they've ditched the scratch plate though not sure about the rosette (bit gimmicky I have one myself - see my avatar).
I'm just really surprised that Hora is not shipping these with unison octave strings. Missing a trick here on a zouk with "Irish" in the title. Not saying the octave stringing doesn't give a pleasant sound but it's not what I would want for unobtrusive counter melody Irish accompaniment.

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## Sound Chaser

> It seems like this is a step up from their previous model. The truss rod should deal with the worries of using thicker string gauges. I'm glad they've ditched the scratch plate though not sure about the rosette (bit gimmicky I have one myself - see my avatar).
> I'm just really surprised that Hora is not shipping these with unison octave strings. Missing a trick here on a zouk with "Irish" in the title. Not saying the octave stringing doesn't give a pleasant sound but it's not what I would want for unobtrusive counter melody Irish accompaniment.


I was surprised too and that's why I posted this thread. But as I was searching for strings, I saw Irish strings set with octave pairs so I suppose it's not so rare...

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## Sound Chaser

> Yeah sure check out Eagle Music in th UK.  They have the set in their bouzouki string section


Thanks, I found the closest set with the gauges I need there: http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/mandol...ble-strung.htm

But again, I'm not sure to change for unissons strings, if I have to modify the bridge etc...

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## garryireland

> Thanks, I found the closest set with the gauges I need there: http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/mandol...ble-strung.htm
> 
> But again, I'm not sure to change for unissons strings, if I have to modify the bridge etc...


I found on the octaves when i used a capo, those bottom courses sounded awful because the capo wasnt pinning the light strings properly so you end up with weird intonation up the neck.  Just my opinion

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## Sound Chaser

This is true, I noticed this as well...

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## garryireland

> This is true, I noticed this as well...


Interesting iv
e just got a Blue Moon bouzouki which i think is made in the same factory.  Will post more after i collect it tomorrow.  Its the bb 12 model

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## samantha99

Yep I was using MM to Inches i.e. Millimeters to Inches for that conversion

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