# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  Counterfeit D'Addario Strings from Amazon

## Russ Donahue

Well, this was interesting.  A few days ago I changed out all my strings - 2 mandolins, 2 guitars and a banjo.  Once I finish that, the next step is to order replacement strings so they are on hand in another 3 weeks when I want to change them out again. 

This time, I ordered through Amazon, and with my Prime membership had the strings arrive in 2 days.  

Life's good - sort of.  I had ordered a 3 pack of EJ16 guitar strings, and unlike the packaging from my last string order, this time it was three sets of EJ16s in three cardboard packages, within a shrink-wrapped envelope. And proudly on the front of the shrink wrap is a sticker proclaiming the strings as "Made In China."  And, in the lower right hand of the cardboard packaging, it states "USA MADE."  

An obvious contradiction, as the photo below shows.

Called Amazon, they're sending replacements. Spoke with George at D'Addario, and he was apologetic and frustrated. I am not the first person to have had this problem with Amazon selling counterfeit strings.  

The replacements that Amazon is sending should arrive tomorrow. It will be fascinating to see if they send me another batch of counterfeits. I promised George I'd let him know how the saga turns out.

I wonder if I can trust the rest of the strings...?

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gtani7, 

mee

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## Mandolin Cafe

Not the first time this has been discussed. Interestingly, its been going on a long time. There's a discussion from 2010 right here about the very same subject. 

amazon has a link where you can "Report incorrect product information." We should be all over that.

D'Addario usually keeps a document available on how to detect counterfeit strings. Here's the latest version below.

Lots of places to buy strings. I don't care where anyone gets theres and this is not a criticism of the OP but I can't imagine this happening at Elderly, JustStrings, Strings & Beyond, The Mandolin Store and lots of other retailers familiar to us.

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Billy Packard, 

Dave Kirkpatrick, 

Paul Statman

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## Russ Donahue

Point taken, Scott.

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## Mandolin Cafe

> Point taken, Scott.


No, no, not your fault. Lot of us buy from amazon but with the moniker of being the world's largest retailer online, some common sense responsibility comes with that. We shouldn't have to worry about something so clearly wrong.

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Denny Gies, 

Jess L., 

lloving, 

Russ Donahue

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## lloving

> No, no, not your fault. Lot of us buy from amazon but with the moniker of being the world's largest retailer online, some common sense responsibility comes with that. We shouldn't have to worry about something so clearly wrong.


I have heard it said, "the bigger the business the less responsible the business"

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## Andy Marshall

Always make sure that anything you buy from Amazon is shown as "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com." Amazon also acts as a portal for other sellers, and sometimes does shipping for other sellers. If it is sold by Amazon and shipped by Amazon, there is seldom any issue with counterfeit items.

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## Jeff Mando

Call me strange, but I'm curious as to how the "counterfeit" strings sound compared to the real ones.........

I guess we probably don't want to know, it might create a demand for the wrong ones!  :Crying:

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## rcc56

You _could_  support a local music store who is a D'Addario dealer . . .

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allenhopkins, 

Billy Packard, 

j. condino, 

Ryk Loske

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## OneChordTrick

> You _could_  support a local music store who is a D'Addario dealer . . .


Often easier said than done. My nearest music store is a 40 minute drive away and they don’t stock mandolins. So I doubt they’d keep sets of strings in stock

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Jess L., 

Russ Donahue

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## Louise NM

This has been a problem with violin strings for quite some time. Shar, one of the largest shops in the country, has this on their website: http://blog.sharmusic.com/are-your-strings-real-or-fake

With a decent set of violin strings going from $50–$100, I can see the potential for fraud. But for $7 guitar or $5 mandolin strings? It seems like the equivalent of counterfeiting $1 bills, just more time and trouble than it's worth. I guess it's a volume thing.

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## rcc56

> Often easier said than done. My nearest music store is a 40 minute drive away and they don’t stock mandolins. So I doubt they’d keep sets of strings in stock


You could ask them to order for you.  They might even give you a discount if you order several sets.

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allenhopkins

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## Jim Roberts

I received a counterfeit Timex watch directly from Amazon :-(

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## OneChordTrick

> You could ask them to order for you.  They might even give you a discount if you order several sets.


I could but by the time I've factored in the cost of petrol, parking etc. it really doesn't justify the cost to support a store that I would only use to buy strings from. Might be different if I also bought other stuff from them. Plus I don't use D'Addario strings.

My point is more that many people don't have a convenient local store that they can use.

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George R. Lane, 

Jess L., 

Jill McAuley

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## Ivan Kelsall

Why would anyone wishing to pull off a 'counterfeit' state in a very obvious manner, that the strings were'' Made in China'' ??. Most counterfeit items state the 'correct' country of manufacture,that's what makes it so hard to track them down - i don't quite understand what's happened here !. If the shrink wrap had said ''Made in the USA'' you'd maybe have suspected nothing & the counterfeiters would have got away with it.

  IMHO - it's always best to order from well known music stores. Very often,for multiple sets they'll offer a discount. Here's the D'Addario 'Play Real' string checker :- http://www.daddario.com/PlayReal.Pag...8-f5106fd0219b,
                  Ivan :Wink:

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Billy Packard

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## Ray(T)

My nearest half decent shop is similarly a 40 minute drive away (Richtone music in Sheffield) thefore I always order on line. Luckily, on the last few occasions, ordering via Amazon, the cheapest has been Richtone and the price has been the same whether I order via Amazon, from their website or calling into the shop.

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## Russ Donahue

> Always make sure that anything you buy from Amazon is shown as "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com." Amazon also acts as a portal for other sellers, and sometimes does shipping for other sellers. If it is sold by Amazon and shipped by Amazon, there is seldom any issue with counterfeit items.


Hi Andy.

Here's the interesting thing.  If you look at those on the Amazon web site, you will see that they were sold and shipped to me by Amazon - not a third party vendor.  I will say, the customer service rep at Amazon was concerned that they were directly selling counterfeit items, and said he was going to contact the buyer about this concern.

My family routinely buys from Amazon, and we (fortunately) have never had problems with the quality of what we buy. So, when I needed strings last week, I added them to a family order. Never thought twice that I might get junk.

It will be fascinating to see what I am shipped as replacements...should arrive today.

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Ivan Kelsall

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## Jess L.

> Always make sure that anything you buy from Amazon is shown as "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com." Amazon also acts as a portal for other sellers, and sometimes does shipping for other sellers. If it is sold by Amazon and shipped by Amazon, there is seldom any issue with counterfeit items.


Except that Amazon allegedly doesn't always keep the inventory separate, rather they may "commingle" products from various suppliers. Here's a quick quote from an article "Does Amazon's Inventory Commingling Help Fake Products Fly Under The Radar?"

_"Part of the problem is with Amazon's inventory system, critics say. Third-party sellers sign up to shill stuff through Amazon's order-fulfillment services. All those products often get pooled together by bar code, regardless of whether they come from the brands themselves or other distributors. That way, Amazon can grab whichever product that's ordered at the nearest warehouse to the customer.

"That means even if you buy something that is technically sold by Amazon under the brand's name, you might end up with a product supplied by a third-party merchant, which may or may not be the real thing. And that doesn't make brands happy, because it makes them look bad to consumers who receive counterfeit goods."_

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## Chris Daniels

Sure, Amazon is convenient and all and I buy plenty of stuff from them but folks need to realize that they are not the best source for everything, nor are they always cheapest. Case in point:

Just yesterday I placed an order with Strings & Beyond. I buy from them, JustStrings, or TMS depending on who has the best sale going on when I'm getting low (not when I'm out and desperate).

My order was:

3 D'Addario EXP74CM - On a buy 2 get 1 deal.

1 Aquila 30U fifths - Since I didn't have a backup set for the banjolele.

1 DR Rare Phosphor Bronze Light MD-10s - Compared to my usual GHS A250 (10-15-24-36), the gauges on the DR's (10-14-24-36) are slightly closer to the specs printed on the Flatiron's neck block (10-13-24-36) so figured I'd give them a shot.

1 Martin Darco Nickel Wound 9150 Custom Light electric guitar - 4 of them are the perfect gauges (11-14-28-38) for restringing the Mandobird for half the price of buying individual strings!

Add in a 10% discount still in effect for Valentine's and free shipping since the order was over $35, my total was $35.11.

The same exact order on Amazon totals $68.62!

Plus I'm supporting a small (internet) business where I know I'll be getting what I ordered as opposed to my local GC where I'd be lucky to find EJ74's and nothing else. 

C.

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Billy Packard, 

Drew Egerton, 

Jill McAuley, 

Paul Statman, 

Ryk Loske, 

Steve VandeWater

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## MikeEdgerton

> Why would anyone wishing to pull off a 'counterfeit' state in a very obvious manner, that the strings were'' Made in China'' ??....


Any item being shipped into the US has to have the country of origin on them to get past a customs inspection. Once the inspector sees the Made in China he or she doesn't look any farther. They aren't shipping in illegal drugs, they are shipping what looks like a legit consumer product. That's why they would have the Made in China label on the box.

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## ddawson2010

Don from D'Addario here - further to the question of how the strings sounded - not very good, would cover it. Some of the samples we've received started out fine much like any set of strings. Some died really quickly but the real point of note, is that the quality of the winding and lock-twists are rather questionable. Our concern is that if you purchased a set that says D'Addario and then have a poor experience with them, it's quite likely that you wouldn't purchase D'Addario again in the future. We're thankful for players who actually point this out and share their experience. It helps educate others to the issue. At one point in China, we were seeing 8 out of 10 sets sold there as counterfeit. We now have an office there in order to help us facilitate getting REAL products to the key retailers as well as fight the counterfeiting.

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Billy Packard, 

Buck, 

Chris Daniels, 

colorado_al, 

Drew Egerton, 

Eldon Dennis, 

Folkmusician.com, 

Jess L., 

Mandolin Cafe, 

Mark Gunter, 

Ryk Loske, 

Steve VandeWater

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## colorado_al

Stringsandbeyond.com is my go to for all of my instruments. Great prices and excellent customer service! I've bought from Amazon a few times if I needed something overnight.

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Billy Packard, 

David Lewis, 

Paul Statman

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## Zach Wilson

I've always had nothing but great experiences purchasing strings (Mandolin, Guitar, Electric and Bass) through juststrings.com. Good guys over there for sure.

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Steve VandeWater

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## TEvans

I just drive on down to Fiddler's Green every month or so and stock up!  I know they'll be legit D'addario products, and I'm supporting the good folks at that shop, too.  Win win!

AND I get to play a bunch of really cool mandolins, and especially this really killer Passernig mandola that blows my socks off every time. 

WIN WIN WIN.  Can't argue with that.

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Billy Packard

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## Zach Wilson

> I just drive on down to Fiddler's Green every month or so and stock up!  I know they'll be legit D'addario products, and I'm supporting the good folks at that shop, too.  Win win!
> 
> AND I get to play a bunch of really cool mandolins, and especially this really killer Passernig mandola that blows my socks off every time. 
> 
> WIN WIN WIN.  Can't argue with that.


That's a good point. When you go to a shop (if there is one reasonably close) you get to jam on sweet mandolins and dream. I do this at Dusty Strings were I buy strings too.

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## Russ Donahue

> Well, this was interesting.  A few days ago I changed out all my strings - 2 mandolins, 2 guitars and a banjo.  Once I finish that, the next step is to order replacement strings so they are on hand in another 3 weeks when I want to change them out again. 
> 
> This time, I ordered through Amazon, and with my Prime membership had the strings arrive in 2 days.  
> 
> Life's good - sort of.  I had ordered a 3 pack of EJ16 guitar strings, and unlike the packaging from my last string order, this time it was three sets of EJ16s in three cardboard packages, within a shrink-wrapped envelope. And proudly on the front of the shrink wrap is a sticker proclaiming the strings as "Made In China."  And, in the lower right hand of the cardboard packaging, it states "USA MADE."  
> 
> An obvious contradiction, as the photo below shows.
> 
> Called Amazon, they're sending replacements. Spoke with George at D'Addario, and he was apologetic and frustrated. I am not the first person to have had this problem with Amazon selling counterfeit strings.  
> ...


*UPDATE* - True to their word, Amazon shipped me a package overnight.  However, it only contained one set of mandolin strings, not two, and no guitar strings.  EPIC FAIL. I left a review warning people not to buy D'Addario Strings from Amazon due to the company selling counterfeit products, attached a photo of the package stating made in China, and asked for a refund.  Guess we'll have to see where this lands.  I am very frustrated with the entire experience.

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Eldon Dennis, 

Mark Gunter, 

mee

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## Loubrava

> I received a counterfeit Timex watch directly from Amazon :-(


Good one !

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Jeff Mando, 

Paul Statman

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## Russ Donahue

Second Update - Amazon just notified me that they will not allow me to post a review stating that the strings they sold me were counterfeit.  Probably shouldn't be surprised, eh? 

I hope Don Dawson and George from D'Addario are all over this...

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Paul Statman

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## Mandolin Cafe

> Second Update - Amazon just notified me that they will not allow me to post a review stating that the strings they sold me were counterfeit.  Probably shouldn't be surprised, eh? 
> 
> I hope Don Dawson and George from D'Addario are all over this...


I tagged amazon last night on Facebook and Twitter and called them out for selling counterfeit strings. Doubt it'll do any good but better than taking no action.

Really, the best thing that can be done short of forcing them into action is the proper titling of this thread. 

*Counterfeit D'Addario Strings from Amazon*

That's not a title you want in your Google search results.

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Astro, 

Jess L., 

Paul Statman, 

Russ Donahue

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## mandroid

its not any strings in the packet? or just not the brand it claims to be?

If all you got was the wrapper , then it would be ..Fraud?

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## Folkmusician.com

That tag on the front of the strings is used for third party FBA. Amazon doesn't add additional barcodes to the inventory. This should be from a third party seller. It does not have a unique "FNSKU". An FNSKU is used to track an individual sellers inventory.  This says it was most likely commingled inventory. Amazon does have some ability to track commingled as well, but it might take more than a few reports. I don't believe Amazon mixes their inventory with third party commingled.  If it did in fact come from Amazon themselves (note, third party FBA would be sold and shipped by Amazon and is Prime eligible), then they are purchasing from unauthorized suppliers.  I doubt that is the case though.

Amazon will act swiftly if it gets reports of counterfeit.  Anyone receiving something like this, should report the seller. It is a big problem. I have received several counterfeit things over the years. Never directly from Amazon though.

If someone were to publicly "out" the seller anytime they received counterfeit products, a few people could order and report the counterfeit and get them shutdown within a few days. Not just the one item, but their entire account.  :Smile:  

Granted, they are not always guilty, with commingled inventory and the fact that amazon sometimes replaces a seller's lost inventory with that from another seller. So it is not always that the seller did anything wrong.  Use Amazon with caution. 


Don,

Have you considered getting D'Addario added to the restricted brand list at Amazon?

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## JeffD

> Call me strange, but I'm curious as to how the "counterfeit" strings sound compared to the real ones.........


Well a while back when this was an issue, I got some bad packs. The A string on one set and the E string on another two sets, broke when first brought up to tension, or soon after.

On real close inspection with a loop I noticed small flattened out sections on the strings, like they had been hammered with a small screw driver.

My retailer (bricks and morter) replaced the strings, and mentioned about the counterfeit problem.

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Jeff Mando

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## Folkmusician.com

> My retailer (bricks and morter) replaced the strings, and mentioned about the counterfeit problem.


Now that is something I have been wondering about. How are US based brick and mortar shops ending up with counterfeits? Most shops would be ordering directly from D'Addario or maybe one of the large authorized wholesalers.

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## JeffD

> Now that is something I have been wondering about. How are US based brick and mortar shops ending up with counterfeits? Most shops would be ordering directly from D'Addario or maybe one of the large authorized wholesalers.


I don't know. I have had no problems since, so whatever it was has been corrected. It was a while back, and I still purchase most of my strings from him.

My view is that there will always be problems, so I don't use "lack of problems" as the most important criteria. More important to me is how they deal with me in resolving the problems

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## ddawson2010

> Well a while back when this was an issue, I got some bad packs. The A string on one set and the E string on another two sets, broke when first brought up to tension, or soon after.
> 
> On real close inspection with a loop I noticed small flattened out sections on the strings, like they had been hammered with a small screw driver.
> 
> My retailer (bricks and morter) replaced the strings, and mentioned about the counterfeit problem.


I've sent this thread over to our team that works with Amazon. I'm sure that there will more more internal discussion in this regard. Jeff - we've not heard of a US dealer selling Counterfeit product so far. We have heard from other countries where this has occurred but not in the States. Would you mind sharing the name of the dealer? You can email it to me if you'd prefer - don.dawson@daddario.com

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Dave Sheets, 

Folkmusician.com, 

George R. Lane, 

Jess L., 

Mandolin Cafe, 

Paul Statman, 

Russ Donahue, 

Ryk Loske

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## jnikora

> I tagged amazon last night on Facebook and Twitter and called them out for selling counterfeit strings. Doubt it'll do any good but better than taking no action.
> 
> Really, the best thing that can be done short of forcing them into action is the proper titling of this thread. 
> 
> *Counterfeit D'Addario Strings from Amazon*
> 
> That's not a title you want in your Google search results.


There are a number of hard working and dedicated online and brick and mortar retailers who sell mandolins, guitars and all kinds of accessories. They often take risks carrying arcane inventory and bend over backwards for their customers like you and me. Many, possibly most of them, offer competitive pricing. These retailers rely on us to support their niche businesses. 

Amazon is the Walmart of the Internet. In fact, they are challenging Walmart's very existence. When they have driven their competitors out of business they will make practical business decisions based on profitability that will include volume sales to determine what remains in their inventory. You may all find your choices reduced to taking what they send you or doing without.

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allenhopkins, 

jesserules, 

Paul Statman, 

Ryk Loske

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## Astro

They were doing it in 2010 and they are still doing it? If so, its not just an accident.

Its not just bad customer service. Its called fraud. And if its mailed by US postal, it might be a felony.

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## MandoAblyss

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.p...ngs-on-amazon/

This is what comes up on first page of Google search for "Counterfeit D'Addario strings."

As if there weren't already enough to worry about... Here the cellist thought the string was high quality but package printing left him doubtful about authenticity.

Did OP open the packs from China to examine the strings? Probably not, since was returning for replacement or refund.

Add "at Amazon" to your search and this thread at top, and also this product review from Feb 4 by Cody comes up:

https://www.amazon.com/DAddario-EJ16...S?pageNumber=2

He got burned on several 3-pack orders and has a tip about checking the Players Club number.

I too order from JustStrings or StringsandBeyond; I find their stock does not entirely overlap, GHS A270 or A275 for instance.

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## ddawson2010

A quick update - after speaking with our Amazon team, they asked if I could inform you that they are working with Amazon and are aggressively seeking a working solution. Please make sure you ask for a refund from Amazon should you encounter this. We now have EJ16 gated, which means that 3rd party sellers cannot come onto the platform and sell this item unrestricted. 

Someone else had posted this PDF which helps identify counterfeit strings. Another way is to use our Play Real site. Unfortunately, you have to open the package to get to the code to do this but it is can a simple way to verify if you've received fake strings - www.daddario.com/PLAYREAL - if i can be of any additional assistance, please don't hesitate.

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almeriastrings, 

Folkmusician.com, 

GeoMandoAlex, 

Ivan Kelsall, 

Jess L., 

jesserules, 

Mandolin Cafe

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## Ivan Kelsall

Hi Mike - Maybe i wasn't too clear in my post re. 'counterfeit' strings. D'Addario strings are made in the USA. So - if a Chinese counterfeiter wished to pass off the strings as 'genuine' D'Addario strings - why put 'made in China' on them,& how did they end up in what seems to be a genuine D'Addario packet.  I fully understand that items from 'abroad' have to state the country of origin on them,but as D'Addario strings are made in the USA - why put 'China' ?.

  Don -  I posted the the link to the ''play real'' string checker. I've had that on my PC for a few years now - invaluable !,
                                                                                             Ivan :Wink:

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## Stompbox

I didnt know fakes were out there.  I got 2 packs for Xmas 2 months ago as a gift and they got them from Amazon.

I will check them this weekend, too bad I will likely have zero recourse (if fake)as it was a gift.

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## MikeEdgerton

Re-gift them to someone you don't like.

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Jeff Mando

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## MikeEdgerton

> Hi Mike - Maybe i wasn't too clear in my post re. 'counterfeit' strings. D'Addario strings are made in the USA. So - if a Chinese counterfeiter wished to pass off the strings as 'genuine' D'Addario strings - why put 'made in China' on them,& how did they end up in what seems to be a genuine D'Addario packet.  I fully understand that items from 'abroad' have to state the country of origin on them,but as D'Addario strings are made in the USA - why put 'China' ?.


Ivan, that's what I was answering. Those fake strings are made in China. When they ship them in if they are checked they have to have Made in China on them. That's why it's there. If they weren't fearing a customs check they wouldn't put the country of origin there. These people aren't smuggling, they appear to the customs agent as a legit importer of a product. They are asked to open a case or two and show that the boxes are marked with the country of origin. Then they are allowed to go into the market. 

In other words, If a customs agent opens the box and it doesn't say Made in China on the inside packages US Customs just seizes the product. By having the Made in China there they at least get through that step.

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Jess L.

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## Willie Poole

Most products aren`t made by Amazon, they just act an agent between the buyers and the sellers so when they get an order for strings they just pass it on who ever they use as a supplier, most likely not directly from D`Addario or one of the other popular string suppliers...

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## Folkmusician.com

> We now have EJ16 gated, which means that 3rd party sellers cannot come onto the platform and sell this item unrestricted.


Here is what sellers now see when trying to list EJ16.



And the application:

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Jess L.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Mike - You seem to have missed my point again !. Why put *China* on something that you're trying to pass off as *American* ?. Genuine D'Addario strings are made in the USA - so why would they need to go through customs ?.  Why would a _Chinese import_ appear ''genuine'' if the _actual_ 'genuine' product is US made - or don't the US customs know that ?. I'm supposing here that the string packs do say ''D'Addario'' on them ?.

   The whole point in counterfeit 'anythings' is that they appear 100% 'genuine',& putting *China* on a supposedly *US made* product is ridiculous.

   Maybe we're at cross purposes here - but 'CHINA' should have rung the bells loud & clear for anyone inspecting the items - if they had any understanding of what they're looking for !,
                                                                            Ivan

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## Jess L.

> ... Amazon just notified me that they will *not allow* me to post a *review* stating that the strings they sold me were *counterfeit*. ...


One of my Amazon reviews a few years ago got deleted, same reason. 




> ... If someone were to *publicly "out" the seller* anytime they received counterfeit products, a few people could order and report the counterfeit and get them shutdown within a few days. ...


Good idea but hard to do when reviews sometimes (not always) disappear if they mention certain taboo subjects. 




> ... How are US based brick and mortar shops ending up with counterfeits? Most shops would be ordering directly from D'Addario or maybe one of the large authorized wholesalers.


Not sure but I can tell you of one small mom-n-pop local music store a few years back. 

They didn't have the item I wanted in stock, but they offered to order a brand-new one for me - from Amazon.  :Laughing:  I thought, well, why not, they're pro's, they know what they're doing, and the price was really good. I don't know which reseller it was, at the time I didn't think it necessary to ask. 

*Never did receive the item*, I waited patiently, 2 months went by, the store told me there had been a "problem" with the seller and that they'd had to reorder from someone else. Hmm. I wasn't in any hurry so the time factor didn't bother me, no problem, but I was a little mystified why an ordinary item could be so elusive. I know it wasn't anything personal because I'd been buying stuff at that store for years (off the shelf, stuff they had in stock) and they'd always treated me good. After a few more weeks we mutually agreed that it would be best to just cancel the order. It was *not* one of those things where someone's holding onto your money for interest  :Whistling:  or whatever, I hadn't paid them yet, the local store preferred to have the customer pay when the item was picked up, rather than when it was ordered.  

Point being, just because it's a brick-and-mortar store, doesn't automatically guarantee they don't buy stuff from Amazon or Amazon resellers or whatever.  :Laughing:  Thus, possible potential for counterfeits, commingled inventory etc. 




> ... Granted, they are not always guilty, with *commingled inventory* and the fact that amazon sometimes replaces a seller's lost inventory with that from another seller. So it is not always that the seller did anything wrong.  Use Amazon with caution. ...


The whole commingled inventory thing just boggles the mind.  :Confused:  Did some marketing 'genius' think, "What could possibly go wrong?"  :Whistling:   :Frown:  It certainly doesn't inspire my trust or confidence as a buyer, and while I've never _sold_ on Amazon I can only imagine that inventory commingling creates stress and worry for honest resellers as well. 

Wish Amazon would find some way to fix that, because there are many other things that _are_ good about Amazon - such as, larger selection of products to choose from.   




> ... *Amazon* is the Walmart of the Internet. In fact, they are *challenging Walmart's very existence*. ...


I think that started getting reversed  :Disbelief:  last year when Walmart stepped up its game in the online-sales arena. 

Walmart is now trying to challenge Amazon's very existence. Walmart online has lots more items available that what they used to have (I'm referring *only* to items shipped and sold by Walmart itself, *not* the 3rd-party resellers - I'd personally steer clear of those), free 2-day shipping on zillions of things (no 'prime' required), seems they're definitely making a play to lure away Amazon customers. Walmart still doesn't have very many mandolins though.  :Laughing:  

I've made a number of orders from Amazon over the years (things that are unavailable locally), and more recently starting seeing what Walmart has to offer as far as convenient order-online & ship-to-home items (again mostly stuff that none of the local stores carry). I do believe that if Walmart continues to play its cards right, Amazon could face some serious competition in online sales. 

I have not heard/read that Walmart commingles inventory, although they might and maybe I just am not aware of it. 




> ... Lots of places to buy strings. I don't care where anyone gets theres and this is not a criticism of the OP but I can't imagine this happening at Elderly, JustStrings, Strings & Beyond, The Mandolin Store and lots of other retailers familiar to us.


Thanks for the reminder especially about "JustStrings" and "Strings & Beyond", I'd actually never heard of either of those  :Redface:  until seeing them here at the Cafe. They seem to get good reviews so I might try them next time.  :Smile:  Of course I'd heard of Elderly but didn't realize they sold strings too. Good to have these options.  :Smile:

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## liestman

Ivan, the point is that the customs agents do not know that D'Addario strings are not made in China. There could be a factory in China making mandolins labeled as "Ellis" and the customs agents would only be checking for all the forms being filled out, no ivory or other banned materials, and that the product was properly labeled as being made in China. Absolutely true that the buyer of a fake set of strings or even a fake Ellis should be alarmed if the package says made in China, but at least the crooks can get the product into the country by getting it past customs inspectors. You made the right statement yourself about the customs inspectors- "if they had any understanding of what they're looking for" - they don't look for all they maybe should, only certain things, and they do not understand that D'Addario strings are not made in China.

----------

Jess L., 

MikeEdgerton

----------


## Jess L.

> ... Why would a _Chinese import_ appear ''genuine'' if the _actual_ 'genuine' product is US made - *or don't the US customs know that ?*. ...
> 
> The whole point in counterfeit 'anythings' is that they appear 100% 'genuine',& putting *China* on a supposedly *US made* product is ridiculous.
> 
> ... 'CHINA' should have rung the bells loud & clear for anyone inspecting the items - *if* they had any *understanding* of *what they're looking for* !, ...


Ivan, I think you've answered your own question there.  :Smile: 

My guess is, that whatever customs official happened to be opening boxes that day, probably didn't know/remember that that product is supposed to be U.S. made. 

In fact, I didn't even know that, until reading this thread. 

U.S.-made things seem to be so rare nowadays that who would even suspect a popular brand would be made in the U.S.? 'Everything' is made elsewhere these days, to be honest I'm quite frankly very surprised on the rare occasions when I see "Made in the USA" on some label (and I live in the U.S.). You just don't see that very much anymore. 

The customs employees are (maybe?? - purely unfounded speculation follows) not able to remember every little detail about every company, and maybe unless something jumps out at them as being 'odd' somehow, they wouldn't notice. I wonder how many hundreds or thousands of boxes they have to open on each day's work? It probably becomes a blur after a while. 

In this case, they *know* the item's coming from China, so it jolly well better have that "Made in China" sticker on it, right? Good enough. Who would suspect that an average-looking item was supposed to be made in the U.S. ....


*EDIT:* 
_Oops, I was writing this while liestman was posting._

----------

liestman, 

MikeEdgerton

----------


## MikeEdgerton

> Mike - You seem to have missed my point again !. Why put China on something that you're trying to pass off as American ?.


It's simple Ivan, as has been pointed out to you by me and others, if they don't put Made in China on them they will never clear US Customs. That's the third time I've said that. Yes they are counterfeit. The Customs agent won't know that. He or she is simply looking to make sure it meets the requirement of the law and any product imported into the US has to have the country of origin on it. If they don't put it on , and I'll say it again, Customs would seize them. You can't sell your counterfeit product if you can't get it into the country where you want to sell it. I have no idea if the UK or any other country has a similar law. I assume they do. I haven't missed what you were saying you've failed to understand the answer.

----------

Mandolin Cafe

----------


## Folkmusician.com

> Why put China on something that you're trying to pass off as American ?


As Mike said, it is required to get through customs.. These are being shipped to the Amazon warehouse, directly from China. This makes it easy to catch.  The bigger problem comes, when there is an intermediate warehouse/individual, etc. here in the USA to receive them. Once in the USA, the tiny made in China sticker is remover, or they were bulk packed and maybe just a sticker on the box of 12.  It is very common for Amazon sellers to send inventory to Amazon direct from China.   The fact that someone smart enough to setup the account and products, source or make the inventory and export it over, didn't even think the China sticker was an issue is crazy. Different culture, different values.




> Never did receive the item, I waited patiently, 2 months went by, the store told me there had been a "problem" with the seller and that they'd had to reorder from someone else.


Sounds like the product was being fulfilled directly from China. This was a major issue for a while. Amazon still allows it, but it is becoming less common due to upset customers. Not that the sellers care, but customers getting refunded and or the seller gets suspended from amazon, resulting in fewer sellers doing this.

Commingled isn't real common, and this is precisely why. Any legit seller learns their lesson real quick!  Honest sellers get counterfeit claims against them. Sellers doing commingled are typically new and don't realize, or not on the up and up. There wouldn't be many exceptions.

Now the Inventory replacement policy is where otherwise good sellers end up getting accused of counterfeit. This is rare and only has a particular circumstance. When a seller's inventory is lost, either at the warehouse or in shipping, the seller is reimbursed. If that inventory is later found, Amazon uses it to replace other sellers lost inventory. This appears to be the only time it happens. Unless watching all the reports daily, the sellers never know.  Since it only happens in the above situation, it is a small percentage. It does happen though

Walmart is a bit different. As of now, they are not warehousing or fulfilling third party orders for sellers. When you order from a third party on Walmart, it is shipped directly from the seller. This makes it ripe for the same problems Amazon is dealing with. Actually worse.


Here is the reality check. An honest seller will not be profitable item Amazon sells. The third party fees are massive, and the warehouse fees per sq. ft. of storage increase the longer the item is in the Amazon warehouse. Amazon's repricing is instant. If you lower your price to get sales, they will instantly lower theirs. Per amazon Policy, they do not even have to beat your price. They can run a small percentage above the third party and still retain the buy box.

Any seller than sends inventory into Amazon for items Amazon also sells, will most likely lose money (a lot). Sellers may be trying to liquidate inventory or just be testing the waters, but it is not sustainable. This alone is the HUGE red flag. If a seller is using this as a business model, selling something like strings via Amazon FBA (FBA means Amazon warehouses the inventory), and listing the same products Amazon is selling, use extreme caution. 

Believe me, if dealers could simply order D'Addario strings and send them to Amazon to be fulfilled at a profit, they would be doing it.  It isn't feasible.   :Smile: 

As of now, buying from third party sellers on Amazon, eBay, and any other platform that allows third party sellers, is not going to be the safest place to shop for these types of products. The fees are too high for legit sellers to succeed.

----------

almeriastrings, 

FrontRangeMando, 

Jess L., 

Mandolin Cafe, 

Russ Donahue

----------


## Mandolin Cafe

Slipped Disc, our favorite (and most diverse) music blog has picked up this story, is spreading it around social media, and has linked to us. Great readership there so this issue just got some serious new legs.

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MikeEdgerton

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## Billy Packard

Broken record here!

Ever since I made my acquaintance with Mapes Strings my string issues are handled.  I buy from the manufacturer only what I need. 

The fraud, deceit, malfeasance, lying and cheating that's attempted through amazon is shameful and would be best prosecuted in every venue available.

Thanks to everyone on that mission.

----------

George R. Lane

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## ghostdancer

dont they have an online portal or will they post them to you ?

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## whitzmusic

Wow, I regularly buy D'Addario strings from Amazon as well, though for my Ibanez Mikro short-scale electric guitar instead. I never looked at the packaging in detail like you did. Seems like I'll have to grab all sets in future either from the local stores or from dedicated musical instruments-specific e-commerce sites like Sweet Water or Musicians' Friend.

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## Caleb

I buy a ton of stuff off Amazon, including most of my strings, and generally have good luck.  But this thread has inspired me to go back to using my local shop[s] for strings.  Back before I was spoiled with buying everything online, this was just normal life.  It won't kill me to do it again.

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jesserules

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## Chris Daniels

> Wow, I regularly buy D'Addario strings from Amazon as well, though for my Ibanez Mikro short-scale electric guitar instead. I never looked at the packaging in detail like you did. Seems like I'll have to grab all sets in future either from the local stores or from dedicated musical instruments-specific e-commerce sites like Sweet Water or Musicians' Friend.


Man you guys like to spend money. My $35.11 from the first page of this thread becomes $54.45 at MF without the Aquila 30U, which they don't carry. I thought maybe I could find them at Sweetwater, where I have bought EJ74s as an add-on to an order, but they don't carry any of the strings that came in the mail yesterday. I may be at risk of sounding like a shill but the companies that advertise here on the Cafe are the real deal for more than just properly set-up mandos.

My only nearby source for strings is GC so I will send a hearty kudos to anyone shopping at local shops regardless of markup.

C.

----------

mzurer

----------


## mee

Anyone know if this is happening through other websites? I am expecting a couple packs of J74's from Musicians Friend. Are any other brand being counterfeited? I also ordered Martin Marquis guitar strings.

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## Jess L.

> ... Are any *other brand* being counterfeited?


I would think that just about any popular item that sells quickly, is theoretically subject to being counterfeited. 

I've even heard of counterfeit USB cables, counterfeit guitar cords, counterfeit vitamins/minerals, just everyday items, not even high-priced stuff, anything for scammers to make some quick cash.

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## V70416

Amazon raked in $5.6 Billion dollars last year;but,paid $0(zero) dollars in federal taxes. 
    I'm not smart enough to figure out how that can happen. You'd think they could at least pay tax like everybody else!?
   Adding insult to injury,Amazon is being offered ridiculous tax breaks in the areas where they are considering opening their next big location.
   I may be off on the fine details about all this tax stuff;but,if there is any way I can avoid doing business with Amazon(WallyWorld too) I will certainly do so.
   Over the years I have become a string snob when it comes to steel strings. I only use D'Addario's.
   Also,whenever possible(almost always)I get strings from Elderly. Have bought some great instruments from Elderly too(incl.1923 snakehead). Always great service and products from them for about 25 years personal experience.
   Thankfully,as mentioned in this thread,there are other reputable stores with which to do business as well. 
    Time for my mando-therapy session.
Happy pickin',everybody!

----------

Don Grieser

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## Mandolin Cafe

amazon is back in the news in a big way. One thing to have the relatively small Mandolin Cafe complaining about this but now its hitting massive sites like CNet. amazon's spokesman does a fine job of spinning a story that is ridiculously hard to believe.

Amazon's Jeff Bezos called out on counterfeit products problem

----------

Jess L.

----------


## MikeEdgerton

I was just coming to post this  :Cool: 

The problem is obviously bigger than just the string world.

----------


## Jess L.

> I tagged amazon last night on Facebook and Twitter and called them out for selling counterfeit strings. Doubt it'll do any good but better than taking no action.
> 
> Really, the best thing that can be done short of forcing them into action is the proper titling of this thread. 
> 
> *Counterfeit D'Addario Strings from Amazon*
> 
> That's not a title you want in your Google search results.


MandolinCafe admin is very brave to 'out' Amazon like that.  :Mandosmiley:  I hope the past week's server issues were not something like a DDoS attack, done for purposes of revenge by any of the numerous possible parties in the chain who stood to be adversely affected if the counterfeit scam was exposed... Although I suppose if it _was_ a DDoS, maybe best to not admit to it (not provide info that could be used for fine-tuning future attacks).

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## MikeEdgerton

Amazon wouldn't even bother with a DDoS attack, they don't work that way even in anyone's dreams. The Cafe issues were totally explainable and due in part to the previous weeks hardware issues. The fault lies plainly with the hosting company and an error they made that was silly but understandable when dealing with people in this business. The people importing counterfeit goods would never expose their operation with something this petty. They really want to fly beneath the radar and if they aren't selling counterfeit strings will find something else to import and sell. Amazon's part in this is simply offering a marketplace that can be exploited not unlike eBay or any other shared marketplace.
*
Scott's last message about the problem*

----------

OneChordTrick

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## Jess L.

> ... The Cafe issues were totally explainable and due in part to the previous weeks hardware issues. ...


Ok, good to know. Thanks.  :Smile:

----------


## FrontRangeMando

I was back in DC this past week and saw this story on the local news about a newly released GAO report on counterfeit online products.

https://www.today.com/video/amazon-a...-1172557379993

Not only is it a bigger problem than strings, it looks like it's a bigger problem than just Amazon.  The story calls out Walmart.com, eBay, and others as well.

----------


## Folkmusician.com

eBay is the biggest offender. Amazon, does seem to jump on it once they are aware...  Walmart is just starting to open the flood gates to third parties as is other big companies.

Any place that allows third party sellers (without heavy vetting) is going to have ongoing problems. There is just to much money at stake for the criminal element not to take advantage.

It will only get more chaotic. More and more businesses will have to jump on the third party bandwagon to compete. Kmart started now.

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## Russ Donahue

So to close out the story, Amazon did, sort of, make good on their promise to replace the items they originally sent.  If you recall, on 2/21, their customer service rep promised to overnight me a package of real EJ16 strings - which were what I needed at that time.  He also agreed to replace the two packages of J74 mandolin strings that I had ordered with the guitar strings. 

That was acceptable.

In the meantime, my original order (guitar and mandolin strings) were packaged up and shipped back to Amazon.

Next day - at end of day - a package arrives with one set of J74 mandolin strings. No guitar strings (counterfeit or otherwise) and one set short of mandolin strings. Remember, it was the need for guitar strings that set this adventure off to start with.

Another call to Amazon. Another very frustrating conversation. They assure me that all the items were shipped and don't understand why I am upset,and don't understand why I haven't received everything I was promised. In exasperation, the customer service rep removes the charge for the replacement items.

At this point I have one set of J74 strings in my possession.

Next day, at end of the day, another package arrives - this time with one set of J74 strings and another counterfeit package of EJ16s.

This morning I finally received word that the original order I had returned was received by Amazon and credited to my account.  Once my credit card is made whole for this entire bloody transaction, I intend to order EJ16s from Just Strings...

A painful and unnecessary lesson learned.

----------

bruce.b, 

Clement Barrera-Ng, 

Folkmusician.com, 

Mandolin Cafe, 

SincereCorgi, 

violmando

----------


## Glassweb

I have been purchasing strings through Just Strings for years now. PERFECT service each and every time. The CORRECT order each and every time. And if there is ever a backorder on single strings that I need from time to time, the strings arrive quickly and with no extra shipping charge. In other words PERFECT SERVICE and complete satisfaction every time I deal with them.

You can't get better than perfect...

----------

Jim Roberts, 

Mandolin Cafe, 

violmando

----------


## Seter

Just Strings is great, and I like that they go the extra mile to throw in some freebies like picks here and there. Not many companies do that.

----------

Glassweb, 

JEStanek, 

Mandolin Cafe, 

violmando

----------


## colorado_al

My string supplier of choice is stringsandbeyond.com. Pricing is better than Amazon, free shipping if you buy $35 or more. Excellent customer service.

----------

dshipp, 

Gerry Cassidy, 

Paul Statman

----------


## MediumMando5722

Thank god I have multiple local shops with all the guitar and mando strings I like. Crazy.

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## ccravens

> Just Strings is great, and I like that they go the extra mile to throw in some freebies like picks here and there. Not many companies do that.


Yes, but you pay for those "freebies" of cheap picks and a couple pieces of candy with higher prices:

3 sets of J74's at Strings & Beyond - $23.22 total (including shipping)
3 sets of J74's at Just Strings .com -  $26.54 total (including shipping)

Plus, with Strings and Beyond, orders over $35 are shipped free. Not so with JS. They offer no free shipping on anything that I have found. Which leaves you with:

6 sets of J74's at Strings & Beyond - $36.54 total (including shipping)
6 sets of J74's at Just Strings .com - $46.13 total (including shipping)

Which saves you almost $10 on your order. BTW, I've had good experiences with both companies.

Having said that, order from whom you like the most. Saving money isn't everything.

----------

colorado_al, 

Paul Statman

----------


## Jim Roberts

Yeah, but Just Strings is a sponsor of this wonderful website...I purchase my strings from them and also thank them for supporting the Cafe when I order.  




> Yes, but you pay for those "freebies" of cheap picks and a couple pieces of candy with higher prices:
> 
> 3 sets of J74's at Strings & Beyond - $23.22 total (including shipping)
> 3 sets of J74's at Just Strings .com -  $26.54 total (including shipping)
> 
> Plus, with Strings and Beyond, orders over $35 are shipped free. Not so with JS. They offer no free shipping on anything that I have found. Which leaves you with:
> 
> 6 sets of J74's at Strings & Beyond - $36.54 total (including shipping)
> 6 sets of J74's at Just Strings .com - $46.13 total (including shipping)
> ...

----------

Clement Barrera-Ng, 

Paul Statman, 

Rick Jones

----------


## Ryk Loske

Chris,
Good points and i too have used both.  Location is also an issue.  I'm in Vermont ... Just Strings is just over in New Hampshire.  If i order in the morning my order is here with the next day's mail.
Ryk

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## Ryk Loske

Another good point Jim ... Thanks,
Ryk

----------


## Mandolin Cafe

amazon's response to this is predictable, but we were discussing the same issue eight years ago, and I'm guessing this all started shortly after 1994 when they launched. It reeks of what a lot of companies like Twitter and Facebook are engaging in at this very moment: "yes, we acknowledge we have a problem but don't have a _scalable solution_, but we want you to know this is our highest priority." In other words, we'll leave you smiling with a good feeling but don't count on the problem getting solved--our profits are more important than your need to be effectively served as a consumer, and solving those problems would impact our bottom line.

As a business owner I find this kind of approach reprehensible. What a luxury, to create a brand so effective, eBay, Facebook, Twitter, etc. that they can essentially serve as fronts for criminal activity without ever really feeling the brunt of any kind of punishment. eBay even has its own little army of folks right here reporting all the scam ads. Whack-a-mole game with no end that will never be won. And guess why they continue? Because they work. What a mess, the internet. Makes us want to go here.

----------

Beanzy, 

Billy Packard, 

Folkmusician.com, 

Jess L., 

jesserules, 

Jill McAuley, 

O. Apitius, 

Paul Statman, 

Russ Donahue, 

Ryk Loske

----------


## HoGo

> What a mess, the internet. Makes us want to go here.


Internet is slowly morphing into something ugly and dangerous and these companies just take advantage of this mess. I remember back in '95-'95 when I first got regular access to internet it was much purer and safer place than these days....

----------


## MikeEdgerton

I've been involved managing the online world since the mid 80's, pre the world wide web. It was never really been that much purer or safer, it was just smaller. It has always been the wild west.

----------

Billy Packard, 

colorado_al, 

Folkmusician.com, 

Jess L., 

Paul Statman

----------


## colorado_al

> I've been involved managing the online world since the mid 80's, pre the world wide web. It was never really been that much purer or safer, it was just smaller. It has always been the wild west.


The BBS days were really quite something. Not very sophisticated compared to today, but quite eye opening for a teenage boy!
Then I remember getting to college and finding out that my department had a thing called e-mail and that I could use it on one of the department machines to contact my professors. It blew my mind when I found out I could also e-mail a friend at another college who was also in Physics. A while after that I played a MUD (Multi-User Dungeon) text game on a machine in the computer lab and found out I was playing against someone from Ireland! I just couldn't believe it.

----------

Eric Platt, 

Jess L.

----------


## Mark Gunter

I like that some of the members here prefer to use cafe sponsors partly _because_ they are cafe sponsors. I've never yet had a problem dealing with the cafe sponsors whom I've used.

So far, I haven't ordered anything from Just Strings or from Strings and Beyond - could be due to my specific order sizes, but each time I've ordered strings, I've bargain-shopped by comparing prices, even going so far as to filling the shopping cart at several vendors in order to make sure there would be no last minute surprises. So far, each and every time, the cafe sponsor Elderly Instruments has gotten my business. I like being able to save a few bucks and still use a cafe sponsor.

YMMV. NFI.

----------


## Beanzy

> It reeks of what a lot of companies like Twitter and Facebook are engaging in at this very moment: "yes, we acknowledge we have a problem but don't have a _scalable solution_, but we want you to know this is our highest priority." In other words, we'll leave you smiling with a good feeling but don't count on the problem getting solved--our profits are more important than your need to be effectively served as a consumer, and solving those problems would impact our bottom line


In fairness they’re just following the long established lead and example set by the credit card companies. Reimburse the individual account and spread the hit through the customer base. But above all do not allow the broad extent of the problem & vulnerability to be observable or quantifiable across the system, as that would undermine confidence in the system and damp user confidence & demand.
While the problem is not seen full scale, the cost of just taking the hits is less than the drop in revenue which could be caused by undermining user confidence. As long as there’s no wider cost, the edge of the corporate carpet will be lifted and the events swept under there. Things like this on here let us see just how lumpy that rug has become.

----------


## JH Murray

As a Canadian, we don't have a lot of choices, so Just Strings as well as Strings And Beyond have been very helpful in getting products to the Great White North. Always a pleasure to deal with both, and no hassles with customs.

----------


## vince f

> I have been purchasing strings through Just Strings for years now. PERFECT service each and every time. The CORRECT order each and every time. And if there is ever a backorder on single strings that I need from time to time, the strings arrive quickly and with no extra shipping charge. In other words PERFECT SERVICE and complete satisfaction every time I deal with them.
> 
> You can't get better than perfect...


Agree, Just Strings is the best

----------


## Caleb

Needed strings this past week.  Went to my local shop!  Felt great to do so.

----------

Eric Platt, 

Folkmusician.com

----------


## Sevelos

Speaking of counterfeits, in Russia there are counterfeit medicines and birth control pills, which obviously don't work. Imagine the moral level of someone who does that.

----------


## Ray(T)

Nothing's new. Back in 1912, my great aunt emigrated from the UK to the US and married a countfeit doctor.

----------

MediumMando5722

----------

