# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Loar Vs. Kentucky

## papabear075

So I am looking to upgrade from my first mandolin which was a Fender FM-100.  I am starting to play more and want something that sounds better.  I was looking and pretty much made up my mind between the Loar 600 (Because I think I like the black) or the Kentucky 1000 (Again in black).  What are the major differences between these?  I was listening to a you tube video of someone playing both and as far as the sound (on you tube and my crappy computer speakers) I didn't notice much of a difference.  Are there other mandolins I should consider?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Dave

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## Steve Ostrander

Depends on your budget, but between The Loar and the Kentucky, and without hearing them, I would pick the km1000. Others will sing the praises of The Loar, but I've always liked Kentucky. I have a km900 that I will match up with any km1000, and at half the price. But some folks prefer the f-style.

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## Fstpicker

The Kentucky KM-1000 has an Adirondack Spruce top, and perhaps the KM-900 does as well, or did at some point. None of the Loar mandolins have the "Addie" top. That doesn't mean the 600 is not a great sounding mandolin, however. I understand it will hold its own among more expensive company. 

Jeff

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

> The Kentucky KM-1000 has an Adirondack Spruce top, and perhaps the KM-900 does as well, or did at some point.


I believe the KM1000 still uses Adi Spruce, but only the very very early KM900 did.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

BTW my vote also goes to KM1000 as well. I've owned them both, and the KM1000 has more of a blue grass sound, and packs more punch. The LM600 I had was nice, has a pleasant sound, but it's just a bit subdued.

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## Jim Ferguson

Here's the specs:
The Loar LM600: $800(ish)

Top: 	
Solid Hand-Carved, Hand-Graduated Spruce
Back & Sides 	
Solid Hand-Carved, Hand-Graduated Flamed Maple Back, Solid Flamed Maple sides
Neck: 	
One-Piece Maple with Rounded V-Profile
Fretboard: 	
Bound Ebony
Headstock Inlay: 	
Abalone/M.O.P. Custom Flower Pot
Finish Type: 	
Hand-buffed Nitrocellulose
Finish Options: 	
Vintage Sunburst
Tuning Machines: 	
Gotoh, Nickel-Plated Brass
Scale Length: 	
13-29/32"
Truss Rod: 	
Adjustable
Frets: 	
29
Binding: 	
Ivory
Bridge: 	
Compensated Adjustable Ebony
Upper Bout: 	
6-3/4"
Lower Bout: 	
10"
Nut, Width: 	
Bone, 1-1/8"
Depth: 	
2-1/2"
Body Length: 	
12-3/4"
Total Length: 	
27-1/4"

Kentucky KM1000: $2K(ish)
Kentucky KM1000 All Solid Mandolin
Solid, hand-carved and graduated select red spruce top
Solid, flat-sawn, hand-carved select highly flamed maple back and sides from Northern Michigan
One-piece maple neck with dovetail neck/body joint at the 15th fret
Nitro-cellulose finish in a traditional 1920's sunburst
Ebony fingerboard with M.O.P. dot position markers and 29 fret extension over the body
Ivoroid binding on all edges
Rosewood peghead overlay with Kentucky script and original-design "Flower Pot" inlaid in pearl
Vintage-style bridge with small adjustment wheels
Traditional 2-screw truss rod cover plate
Perfectly shaped M.O.P. nut
Highly polished nickel-silver frets
Silver-plated, engraved tail-piece with leather insert
High-quality, nickel-plated Gotoh tuners with engraved plate and removable buttons

BOTTOM LINE: sound is in the ear of the beholder.........play both & pick the one that really grabs you!!!!
Also........thee is quite a price diff between the two as well. If you love the sound of the Loar..........why not save a grand or more for some other stuff... :Grin: 
Peace,

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papabear075

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## papabear075

Thanks for all the advice!  I'm still mulling it over. The big problem is I can't play either before I buy, no stores around here sell them. 

What about the tone bars?  Does that really matter? I thought I read The Loar doesn't have them and Kentucky does. 

Money isn't really an issue with this. My wife told me to get something ill be happy with or years to come. So I'm leaning toward the Kentucky because of the old saying,"you get what you pay for". I definitely see that with the Fender fm-100. I've just heard great things about both so I wanted to know the why the Kentucky was more money.

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## John Kinn

The Loar LM 600 has tone bars, the LM 700 not. Some say the 600 has more of a bluegrassy sound, while the 700 is more open sounding, and more versatile for some people. I'd get the 700, but that's just me. I play celtic, bluegrass and singer-songwriter stuff. Good luck with your purchase!

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## Fstpicker

If it is more of a "life-time keeper" mandolin, I'd go with the Kentucky 1000 for sure. Then, you won't be wondering later on "what if..." and wish you had gone that route in the beginning.'

Jeff

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## Dave Weiss

The Kentucky's have smaller necks and smaller frets. The necks on The Loar's tend to be a bit bigger and more rounded and they have the larger frets. Just something else to confuse you with  :Smile: .
Think I'd lean towards the Kentucky...

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## f5loar

I like my Krispy Kreme donuts "double" dipped in the glaze but I do not like my mandolins that way.  What I see in the "the Loar" models is a "double" dipped lacquer while the KM1000/1500/900 is closer to a true thin coat lacquer like Gibson uses.  That in itself makes a big difference in how it sounds.  For an unplayed before buying gamble I would put my money on the high end Kentucky being much better than any model The Loar.  I like the workmanship on the high end Kentucky better too.

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almeriastrings, 

Mike Bunting, 

Paul Statman, 

robert.najlis

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## fatt-dad

I'd love a KM-900.

f-d

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## GTison

F5loar, I'm with you on your comment.  I haven't played but one or two "Loars" but that is what I noticed, thick lacquer.  The KM1000s I have seen look really good and sound good too.  I don't see what the fuss is about with the "Loar",  maybe they are great and I have not seen enough of them.    
   I might also suggest an Old A model Gibson as an alternative.  While not an f hole model, they do have a great sound.  Some don't cut it in a jam though.  Great trade in value though.

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## almeriastrings

The KM-1000 (and 1500) are really very nice mandolins indeed. They're well put together, and general fit/finish is excellent. Where it really counts (sound) they cut it with the best of them. Certainly, I have never encountered a better mandolin in anything like that price range. Definitely a good long-term investment, as they improve even more with a few miles on them. The necks on the KM1000/1500 are also much closer to a Gibson neck, which is good if you own both. Easier to change back and forth. I keep a KM-1000 around for alternate tunings, like "Get up John" or "Last Days on Earth". I can play it on stage right after any of my others and not feel I'm short changing myself or the audience. It holds its own. A fine mandolin in its own right.

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robert.najlis

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## pjlama

Kentucky, game, set , match.

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## cayuga red

Contact Dennis Vance at the Mandolin Store.  He carries both lines and he will give you an honest assessment of the two models you reference.  Good luck.

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## tander

> Contact Dennis Vance at the Mandolin Store.  He carries both lines and he will give you an honest assessment of the two models you reference.  Good luck.


Last time I check his web site, he had a used KM1000 listed in excellent condition for a very good price. I bought my Kentucky 1000 from him this year and have no complaints.

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## guitarpath

I have played a few examples of both. 

To me, the sound is comparable. One is not clearly superior to the other in terms of tone or volume. 

In terms of fit- and finish, the Kentucky is superior. 

All things being equal, I would chose the Kentucky because of the cosmetics. However, all things are not equal. The Kentucky is about twice as expensive as The Loar. 

The Loar 600 is a great value. An F-5 style solid-wood, hand-carved, good-sounding mandolin for under $1k is tough to beat.

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## Dave Greenspoon

I also feel The Loar 700 is a better comparable for the KM1000.  I'd have to go in for the 1000 if limited to these two choices.  It's a fine instrument that can last you a lifetime.

But you're not limited, so good for you.  If you can buy an "intermediate" priced longtime/lifetime mandolin, then you want something with a lifetime warranty.  I'd consider the Eastman 915. Every last one I've heard or played sounded great once they opened up.  I love the slim necks (absent on the Loar), the radiused board (absent on the KM 1000), and the lifetime warranty.  A buddy got his Eastman 915 (with a finish blem) at festivals for $1500.  While that was an amazing deal, good deals can be had.

Finally, if you stick with any of the major brick-and-mortar vendor regularly recommended on the Cafe, you'll have great customer support backing up whatever purchase you make.  Have fun, and good luck!

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## shortymack

Kentucky's or the Loar's don't have warranties?

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## papabear075

I guess I should look at the Eastman's. I think I didn't originally beachside the black really caught my eye on the Kentucky and The Loar. I am not closed to other brands, which other ones have radiused boards?  Anyone want to comment on how big a difference they are?  Thanks everyone I really appreciate the feedback. Keep it coming... 😃

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## shortymack

Eastman makes a black top too, radiused board as well.......http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=9636

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## Steve Ostrander

Throw the Eastman into the mix, and I'll still take the km10000. The km900 is a better value, but the km1000 is very good.

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## papabear075

Holy cow I just pulled the trigger and went with the KM-1500.  I am super excited to get it here!  Thanks for all the input everyone!

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## Mike Bunting

> Holy cow I just pulled the trigger and went with the KM-1500.  I am super excited to get it here!  Thanks for all the input everyone!


You won't be disappointed, good choice.

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## shortymack

Awesome, congrats! Enjoy the beejeebers out of it.

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papabear075

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## Tiderider

Congrats on a fine acquisition, I know you'll love it.   I came back to this post to lead you to this varnish KM1000, no doubt it is also a killer.

KM1000 Varnish

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## Mike Scott

> Holy cow I just pulled the trigger and went with the KM-1500.  I am super excited to get it here!  Thanks for all the input everyone!


I bought a 1500 earlier this year-you will love it.  They are awesome (IMHO).

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papabear075

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## f5loar

If you went with the 1500 you won't be upgrading for a long time.  You should be well pleased provided it is set up properly.

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papabear075

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## almeriastrings

Great choice. You can't go wrong with these. They really are_ very_ good.

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papabear075

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## papabear075

I came back to this post to lead you to this varnish KM1000, no doubt it is also a killer.

KM1000 Varnish [/QUOTE]


Thanks!  I almost went with the 1000 but Dennis had a deal I could not pass up at The Mandolin Store.  He was even able to ship it yesterday as well!  

I was curious what the major differences were between the Varnish and the Lacquer aside from the obvious.  According to the people I talked with it doesn't seem to impact the tone or sound.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks everyone for all your help!

Dave

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## Dave Greenspoon

Last I saw, Saga only offers a year on the KY's.



> Kentucky's or the Loar's don't have warranties?

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## Dave Greenspoon

Dave, congrats!  It's a great axe and you should enjoy it for years to come!




> Holy cow I just pulled the trigger and went with the KM-1500.  I am super excited to get it here!  Thanks for all the input everyone!

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## almeriastrings

> Last I saw, Saga only offers a year on the KY's.


You have to read the 'fine print' on warranties carefully. Also (depending on where you are) local laws can give you far more protection, anyway. Often these are so-called 'limited lifetime' warranties specifically against manufacturing and materials defects. These are highly likely to be pretty obvious very quickly. Beyond that, there is a lot of wriggle room... humidity? temperature? your fault, and so on. Arguing a "materials or manufacturing" defect after 12 months can be difficult, anyway. 

In the EU a mandolin (any mandolin) would normally have a 3-year warranty, at least. The legal position is that it can be argued that this should be 7 years for goods expected to be a long-term investment. The exact position varies by country. How well any 'issue' gets dealt with also varies according to the attitude of the retailer or manufacturer. Want to buy a $22K Gibson DMM outside the US? No limited lifetime warranty!!!!  You get the same 'official' warranty as a Kentucky KM-150 or The Loar LM-220....

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## shortymack

> Want to buy a $22K Gibson DMM outside the US? No limited lifetime warranty!!!!  You get the same 'official' warranty as a Kentucky KM-150 or The Loar LM-220....


That doesnt seem right. Whats difference does it make where its purchased if there is a defect in the product? One company that I know has great customer service first hand is Eastman, they stand by their products 100%, at least from my dealings with them here in the US.

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## papabear075

Holy cow Fedex is killing me!!!!  LOL  :Mandosmiley:

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## Tiderider

Waiting on FedEx is like waiting for Christmas morning, it will never come soon enough.

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papabear075

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## UkuleleAl

Congrats! Upgrading is going to be pretty difficult  :Grin: 

-Alex

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papabear075

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## papabear075

Yeah upgrading from this and I am in the way too expensive for a hobby zone...   :Cool:   I just wish Fedex could show on GPS where the truck is that has it, my OCD is killing me and my browser is getting tired of being refreshed every 5 minutes...   :Laughing:

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UkuleleAl

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## almeriastrings

We feel your pain....

Let us know when you have it, and post a few pics too.... always interesting to see these.

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## mandroid

A friend went to the Eastman Warehouse.. auditioned a lot, that all looked the same ,
then picked the one that sounded best to His Ears.

 given wood is natural, sound is variable, within a production run.

 shopping over the Web , you don't get to hear and then buy.

.. so it Goes..

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## UkuleleAl

Wow the suspense!  :Cow: 

-Alex

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papabear075

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

> shopping over the Web , you don't get to hear and then buy.
> 
> .. so it Goes..


Absolutely true.  Even mandolins produce by individual builders will vary from year to year, and batch to batch.  That's why it's always good to buy from someone who has a trial period and stand behind all their merchandise, like Dennis and Robert F.

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papabear075

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## papabear075

> Wow the suspense! 
> 
> -Alex


Yeah it's killing me..  It's so close I can taste it!

Oct 26, 2012 2:42 PM
Arrived at FedEx location
CHICAGO, IL

Oct 24, 2012 5:15 PM
Departed FedEx locationPHOENIX, AZ

Im in the Chicago Burbs!

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## papabear075

> Absolutely true.  Even mandolins produce by individual builders will vary from year to year, and batch to batch.  That's why it's always good to buy from someone who has a trial period and stand behind all their merchandise, like Dennis and Robert F.


No shops around had any for me to play unfortunately.  Dennis and Robert have such great reputations around here I really have no worries.

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## papabear075

Woot woot! It has arrived!

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## papabear075

Here she is...  Thanks everyone, can't wait to play some stuff!

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## UkuleleAl

:Whistling:  She looks nice!

-Alex

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papabear075

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## Jim Ferguson

Gorgeous!!!!  I was just looking on the TMS website & they were selling the KM1500 (not the varnish) for $2,000.00 off the list price!!!!!  Is that the one you got or did you go for the varnish????
Peace,

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## papabear075

> Gorgeous!!!!  I was just looking on the TMS website & they were selling the KM1500 (not the varnish) for $2,000.00 off the list price!!!!!  Is that the one you got or did you go for the varnish????
> Peace,


Jim, that is the one I got.  I asked Dennis if the varnish made a $500 difference in sound and he said he didn't think so.  He also mentioned that some of the varnished models had some issues with case melt on the way to dealers and peoples homes.  In the end I figured getting it for $1000 less than everywhere else was too good a deal to pass up, especially when I was only planning on spending $1000-$1500.  :Mandosmiley: 

I'd hurry though, I think he only has one left...   :Whistling:   BTW, I am no expert and judging setups however from what I can tell, he did a fantastic job!!  I have no complaints, the thing plays like a dream and sounds soooo amazing!  Such and incredible upgrade from my Fender FM-100 which now belongs to my son who started playing violin about a year ago.

Cheers  :Coffee: 

Dave

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Jim Ferguson

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## Jim Ferguson

Well Dave.......that is fantastic. I have had excellent dealings with Dennis & the gang at TMS in the past........bought a lovely Eastman from them & it was a beauty. I've owned several mandolins over the years & have come to the conclusion that I do much better playing a wide nut mando. I came upon a The Loar LM 220VS several months ago & absolutely loved how it played. I read the specs on it at the TMS website & found out it has a 1 & 1/8" nut thus making the fretboard wider than the Eastman MD515 I was playing. Lesson learned for me...........any future mandos will be wide nut to accommodate my slightly larger hands...:-)
Peace,

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## Nick Gellie

The only issue with the current KM-1000 and KM-1500 models is that they come with a 11/16" nut.  According to Dennis, a new model is is in the wings - 1 3/16" nut with a radiused fingerboard.  They are going to let me know when one comes in.  I would be interested in this version of the KM-1500 lacquered model.  I have some reservations about the varnish models too.  I don't think that the varnish makes that much to the difference to the sound compared to the lacquered model.

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## FLATROCK HILL

> The only issue with the current KM-1000 and KM-1500 models is that they come with a 11/16" nut.


Not to point out the obvious, but I think there is a space missing between a couple of those '1's!

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## papabear075

Well it's been a few months and I have thoroughly been enjoying this fine axe.  I am having a minor issue, it appears the truss rod may need adjusting.  My G string intonation stopped at the 9th fret and is not that great at the 8th fret.  I think the action looks good so I am guessing truss rod but I have no clue how to adjust it.  Is this something I should take to a luthier or is it pretty easy to tackle on my own?  I'm a little nervous about messing with it.

Thanks,
Dave

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## Folkmusician.com

Hi Dave,  

This is something you can do yourself, but consider the truss rod adjustment independent of the action and intonation.

You want your neck somewhere between perfectly straight and a slight upbow.  Measure this by fretting the E string at the 1st and 14th fret( at the same time) look at the 7th fret for a small gap between the string and fret. If you see one, it is correct.  CHeck the G as well. You do not want a larger gap than the width of the E string.

More relief (upbow) can be added by turning the truss rod counterclockwise. Turn clockwise to remove relief.

Once this is set, correctly, move on to the action at the 12th fret.  You want it approx. 4/64ths at the 12th fret G string.  Lower on the E side.  Once this is set then move on to intonation.

To set intonation, play the 12th fret harmonic and the 12th fretted. These should be nearly identical. If the fretted not is sharp, the bridge is scooted rearward. If flat, it is moved forward. Set the E and G. It is ok if the bridge ends up twisted.  If you move the bridge very far, you may need to readjust the string height. Go back and forth until the height and intonation are correct.  Once you have the E and G correct, check the D and A and decide on a compromise. You will not get all 4 perfect.   :Smile:

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