# Instruments and Equipment > Videos, Pictures & Sound Files >  1936 mandolin w/ violin scroll head. ivory binding, ivory tuners

## Earl Kayoss

Howdy folks.

I went back and grabbed that other mandolin today.
Thx for helping me with the sunfish mandolin.

this one...
i hoped not to ask so many questions of you and attempted google searches on this mandolin but came up with absolute zero. not even a mention.

if you good folks could help me with this one, that'd be awesome, i am quite fond of i already.

of note:

1. says 'ramango' 'luthier" 1936, new york, e. 22nd st. on label inside
2. headstock is *not* cracked all around the back, its a compartment to the tuners.
3. ther pickguard was 'embossed' with a name i cant read now, i tried to photo it.
4. ivory tuners
5. ivory binding
6. pearl dots.
7. a 2 inch bit of binding is gone from the top side of the neck along the side, near neck joint
8. has a crack in the top but, wood is dry, that'll completely seal with moisturization, for now.
    i moistened the sunfish and  the cradck sealed.
9. the case is in such nice shape, green plush case.,, seems original.
10. violin carved headstock
11. nothing as far as a model # i can see anywhere
12. the scroll itself has "ramango" / "New York" embossed on the face of the head.
13. i like the wood on the back and sides, its purty.
14. i paid $50 total. is that a fair price or did I get ripped?
15. i literally can find no info at all anywhere onn this thing. can you help me?
      i have 20+ photos.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

photos....

----------


## Earl Kayoss

last....

----------


## sumibuilt

Holy Cow!!! I'd risk putting my career as a professional amateur mandolin dealer on the line and say "You done good". Everyone was trying to copy the Gibsons of the day, but this maker was obviously chasing after Lyon& Healy on this one, taking artistic liberties of course. It looks like they knew what they were doing for the most part. I like the trap door tuners. Can't say as I've seen another like it.

----------


## Ed Goist

*Fantastic looking mandolin! Congratulations.*
I love how from the side the peghead looks like a Viking ship, and the tuners look like it's oars in the water! Primo.
I think you'll want to do something fairly quickly about the top crack (?). I'd be afraid that the string tension combined with the crack could cause failure of the top. However, I'm no expert, and I'm hoping a luthier or qualified repair person will chime in.
Cool dog too.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

have you ever heard of this builder? Ramango. 1936. e. 22nd st. NY.
i couldnt find zilch, and i tried hard.
it, to me, looks like he thought it out before he built it and cared about the biuld.
if thats true, i find it hard to believe there's no info on "Ramango" out there.

thx.

is it worth more than $50?
No way in heck i'll ever sell it.
i am merely curious because i literally know nothing at this point.
i just figured i can get the 2 inch binding replaced rather easily, moisturize it and have a faiyly decent mandolin at that point for $50... + binding cost.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

thx gents.
it actually is much prettier than these photos indicate.
much much actually.

i have 2 english bulldogs, i rescued them both.

the crack aint so bad, altho it obviously sux but...
i have damp sponges inside it now and
i will leave it in there for 3 days in the case and when i open it,
the crack will be "gone"...
although we'll know its really still there but i did this with the sunfish mandolin and it fixed the hairline crack.

----------


## Charles E.

Another cool mandolin, wow. I looks like the builder was useing Lyon and Healy as an inspiration for this instrument. I like his take on the scroll, reminds me of Caspar de Salo.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

if i just post 2 photos, will they post larger?

----------


## Ed Goist

Hi Earl; yes - Folks can click the thumbnail to make it bigger, and then click it again to make it bigger still.
That back wood is gorgeous! Maybe Cherry?
Oh, and I'm far from an expert when it comes to determining instrument value, but I'd say it's worth WAY more than $50. I wouldn't accept any offers until hearing from the experts here.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

also of note:

the top is amazing.

it is extremely arched and 
extremely bowled at the same time and that is the design, not defect.

its really really arched up as it approaches the sound hole, then,
it bowls itself approaching the string saddle down there and flairs up again remarkably as it reaches the edge, all the way around down there in the lower poortion of the top.
its extremely dimensional this top.
its really neat to see.
its extreley contoured.
it feels nice to touch it.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

thx 4 the insight on the photo enlargement, Ed.
I didnt know but I am glad to know now. i wanna try it.

- e

----------


## MikeEdgerton

I need to hang out where you hang out. The case is worth about 2 bills. I haven' got this name anywhere in anything I have. It would appear that somebody admired the old L&H mandolins. By 1936 they weren't being made anymore by Lyon and Healy. I've going to guess the tuners probably are imprinted Waverly. The tailpiece is a standard Waverly cloud tailpiece. The headstock is a piece of work.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

it may very well be cherry, now that you metion it.
too bad my camera is lousy.
we're really not seeing the true beauty of this thing here.
it really looks 10x better in hand.
my camera rots.
and it was cloudy as heck outside.

----------


## MikeEdgerton

The tuners appear to be F style tuners reversed. Can you take a pictures with the cover off the back of the headstock?

----------


## MikeEdgerton

Here's the inspiration for this thing:

Frank Fords frets.com Museum Lyon and Healy mandocello

----------


## Earl Kayoss

thx 4 that photo link, Ed.
they look remarkably similar.
even the pickguard.
like i said, pickguard is embossed.
i think i'll do a pencil shading of the guard and see if i can read whats embossed  in the guard.

normally. i'd be real hesitant about removing the back wood on the back of the headstock because
i am so mechanically challenged but since you folks have been so kind to me,
when i get back from chinese food with my girl,
i'll try to pop a shot of that head stock w/ the back plate removed.
i promise i'll do it,
i just dont know how quickly i'll get to it.
i wil try to do it sometime today/this evening though.

*any estimate on value?
on the mandolin itself?*


p.s. - he has one more. it says "stadium" on the head and the head is shaped like the sunfish mandolin and the name is applied to the head much the same way as "washington" was applied to the head os the sunfish. it has black tuners tho.
thx.

- e

----------


## Bill Snyder

Earl, it seems that you think re-hydrating your mandolins will take of the cracks. IT DOES NOT! They are still there, just closed up. You need to get them fixed or they will become a problem.

----------


## BradKlein

Hi Earl, 

This instrument was made by R.A. Mango, a New York City luthier, who also made guitars.  This is an obscure and relatively valuable instrument.  By far the best source I know for an appraisal and possible sale of this instrument is the instrument shop that I have sometimes worked for here in Brooklyn, RetroFret/Musurgia.  They are honest brokers, and one of the few dealers who have handled Mango instruments before.

Here is their contact information:
Retrofret - New York String Service 
233 Butler Street | Brooklyn, New York, 11217 USA 
718 237 6092 Voice | 718 237 6092 Fax

----------


## Charles E.

What I find amazing is that the antique shop where he purchased them had two very obscure mandolins at the same time. Also, as a first time mandolin buyer, his first two instruments are rare, obscure instruments! He did not have to own a cheap Pac Rim or any such mandolin, he went streight to the cool stuff. And I might add for under $ 100.oo!

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Brad, you totally rock!!!

I feel pretty embarrassed now.
i thought it was "Ramango", no wonder why google truned up zilch.

I will 100% get in touch with the folks you gave me contact info for.
maybe i can send them this link.
i can certainly send them photos.
plus...
i am only 40 mins. west of Brooklyn.

(I ran into Brooklyn about 5 nights ago to pick up a guitar on Ave. U.
(a steal!!) an $800 guitar for $200. )

well its 6:15pm here in NY now.
maybe that shop is closed but i will try caLLIng there anyways.

Listen, all you guys rock, really and...

no, as I alluded to above,
i do not think moisture solves the crack.
i know to bring it to a luthier and  I will.
but, it does temporarily seal it and it just makes me feel better to see it seal.
'the sunfish sealed real nice from the moisture.
but i know this doent fix it in the slightest.
basically, its hairline cracked from being dry so, minimally,
i feel hydrating it will do it some good.

Ok, lemme try to call that shop and I will let you good folks know what they say.
I hope you dont mind i mention this forum told me to contact them.

also, there's one more mandolin there, the "stadium" I mentioned.
is it anything worthwhile?
I can probably nail ir for $25 but it has a &5 sticker on it.

thx so much guys.
its fun for me to learn this stuff. you guys are truly amazing.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

i called, i missed them by 20 mins. they close at 6pm on saturdAY.
when i reach them, i will tell you what they say.

*can anyone gimme a legit estimaTe on what one may expect to pay to have a hairline crack repaired caused by dryness?
i have no idea.
i am new to mandolins.*
i even paid $20 for someone to string up the sunfish for me. thats how little i know but,
i wanna learn how to string it up and do it myself from now on.
someone said it was difficult to do.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

they are closed on sunday so, looks like i cant reach them til monday.
i did leave a message on their machine.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

googling around for "r.a. mango" dont even turn up much...
about 4 links.
in one of them,

Mandolin Bros. in NY was asking $13k for an r.a. mango acoustic guitar. thats a chunk of change.
i think from the little i've seen that his mandolins are rarer than his guitars.
comparing a guitar to a mandolin is not apples to apples so...
now the curiosity is building.
i wonder what the mando is worth.
whoever owned it all these yrs. took pretty decent care of it.
its in nice shape. relatively.

----------


## bmac

Restringing the mando is not difficult to do.... but I would suggest doing it one string at a time... read frets.com on stringing instruments,,,, there is a right way and lots of  wrong ways. By "one string at a time" I mean remove one string, replace... Remove second string, replace, and down the line. People tend to get into trouble when they remove all the strings and then try to restring from scratch. It gets easier and faster and as you know it can be costly to have someone else do it.

You have majic eyeballs to find instruments of this quality at those prices. Amazing finds.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

thx bmac, thats exactly what i'' do then.
i have a friend who plays mandolin and i spoke w/him.
he says he will teach me how to srtring it.
whatever he says though, i'll mkake sure i do it one at a time.
he also says he'll teach me a few things as far as playing it.
so, those 2 things are pretty good and i am looking forward to both.

my experience lies with guitars.
i own apprx. 35 guitars... maybe 40.
and i have done very well with guitars.
i boguht one for $800 last september and sold it for $6k.
i could go on and on with buys like that.
not to that extreme but,
in general,
i have a good idea of the value and build qualities of guitars.

the sunfish and the mango mandolinns are the first 2 i've ever even held in my hands.
its because of you guys that i took the mango because....
someone here said the sunfish may be worth $160-$200 so..
when i looked at the build of the mango,
it seemed a no brainer to me
that it would be worth more than $200 because compared to the sunfish,
the mango looked fairly outrageous.
so, combining what i know about guitars and what you kind folks told me about the sunfish,
i felt pretty at ease buying the "RAMANGO: (i thought it was "Ramango."
but, still, at time of purchase... i was just completely in the dark, hoping i wasnt paying too much.

too bad that shop in Brooklyn is closed til Monday.
its gonna bug me til i speak with them.
i am 100% gonna have it spruced up.
Just for the sake of the instrument really.
i have no intention of ever selling it, i like it and
wanna learn how to play on it.

have you heard of the last mandolin still in the shop?

"stadium" it says on the head.
should i buy it?
its rather plain.
but still nice.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

here are the requested photos of the inside of the tuner cavity.
the wood looks pretty interesting  actually.
it might be some exotic wood.
i tried to get better shots of the back too because it really is rather "flamed" and
depending on the angle of view.... the back changes its look considerably.

now that you've seen the tuner cavity and tuners...
does it tell you anything?
are they decent tuners?

thx.

----------


## Jim Garber

Earl: You certainly did well by any standards. Even low budget instruments would sell on eBay for much more than you paid. 

Musurgia/Retrofret (mentioned above) had an R.A. Mango guitar which you can see here.

As for the $13k Mango guitar... I think you misread that link in your excitement. Here is the Mandolin Brothers listing. It was C.F. Martin guitar with a R.A. Mango repair label:




> On the back, over the central back brace, is a torn, once-rectangular, paper label from a repairperson that might have worked on it in the 30s or 40s, or he may have resold the guitar during that period.  This label reads R. A. (obliterated), Musical Instr (oblit), 335 E. 22nd St., New York City.    It is our belief that this label originally read R. A. Mango.   Mango was a New York-based guitar builder, who, some feel might have worked for the Cianni guitar-mandolin-violin shop on Kenmare Street, the company at which John DAngelico learned his craft.   Mango also produced guitars that resembled Galiano in their pulchritudinous style.


I have two examples of R.A. Mango mandolins in my files. The first sort of resembles Vega cylinder back.

----------


## Jim Garber

The second one resembles Earl's much closer.

----------


## Jim Garber

> have you heard of the last mandolin still in the shop?
> 
> "stadium" it says on the head.
> should i buy it?
> its rather plain.
> but still nice.


Stadium was a brand that was built by the same company that made Strad-O-Lins which were budget mandolins some of which are quite nice players. The better of those go for about $300-400. YMMV as far as that one goes but it could be ok -- nothing like the Mango tho. Given this shop is prob one of the few on this earth who haven't a clue of what the worth of instruments are or maybe have no internet connection, it is probably worth the few bucks that they will charge.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Jim, thx so much for the clarification.

and thx for those photos too.

i think they're rather attractive, don't you?
something about them like, ... they have nice lines to them.
and they all seem to have a nice patina to the woods. they've aged rather well.
mine needs some attention after 70 yrs. or so but...
even as it sits, it looks kinda neat to me.
i cant wait to hear it play and
i will be happy when a luthier takes care of it for me.

how much will it cost to have this spruced up?
does anyone have an estimate?

Jim, do u know how much your 2 mango's were purchased or sold for?
if its rude of me to ask, i apologize and dont mean to be rude.
i am just curious.   - e

----------


## Ed Goist

I love this thread!
Earl; keep her!

----------


## MikeEdgerton

Had I known it was R.A. Mango and not Ramango I could have pointed out that the guy is listed on the Mugwumps site. Punctuation really is your friend when you're looking for information. There's even a thread with the mandolin Jim posted above on it here on the site already.

*
R.A. Mango guitar on Youtube*

----------


## Earl Kayoss

the headstock on that 2nd one above is so sick.
that is so cool to see.

the first one appears to have something other than "r.a. mango" on the interior label.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

believe me , Mike...

i am pretty embarrassed.
i assure you.

but even now that I know its r.a. mango,
it dont look that way on the label.
it looks like ramango.

still... i accept and deserve the embarrassment.  :Smile:

----------


## MikeEdgerton

The tuners are the same tuners used on Gibson F models at the time. The ends have been cut off to fit the cavity.

----------


## Jim Garber

The label on the first says Globe Musical Instruments which may have been the store that it was sold in. I downloaded this from eBay so don't really have any additional info.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Thx Mike.
I assume they are fairly decent tuners then.
its amazingly clean back there, too.

and look how dark the wood is and how tight the grain is.
i wonder what that dark wood is?
That wood cover comes on and off like a breeze.
i was a bit afraid to muck with it but...
it was neat to do. i think he did a good job with that thing back there. its pretty neat.

and thx, Jim.

----------


## Ed Goist

> believe me , Mike...
> 
> i am pretty embarrassed.
> i assure you.
> 
> but even now that I know its r.a. mango,
> it dont look that way on the label.
> it looks like ramango.
> 
> still... i accept and deserve the embarrassment.


Earl; I can see the "RA" in the name between what I think are the two D-strings as seen in picture #6 of post #1.
Because of the font used and the letter spacing on that label, I'd say it would be very easy to mistake the R.A. for RA - Totally understandable, and no reason to be embarrassed.
P.S.: Keep her!  :Smile:

----------


## Earl Kayoss

i am starting to think that each mandolin this guy made may be a one of a kind (sorta).
there are drastic differences between the 3 in this thread yet, they also contain similar attributes.

yes?
no?
maybe?

----------


## Jim Garber

> Had I known it was R.A. Mango and not Ramango I could have pointed out that the guy is listed on the Mugwumps site. Punctuation really is your friend when you're looking for information. There's even a thread with the mandolin Jim posted above on it here on the site already.
> 
> *
> R.A. Mango guitar on Youtube*


Actually that guy in the video bought the guitar I posted that was sold prob to him by Retrofret. He named that tune 233 Butler which is Retrofret's address.

----------


## Jim Garber

> and look how dark the wood is and how tight the grain is.
> i wonder what that dark wood is?


I would say that it is mahogany stained dark, like the neck.




> Jim, do u know how much your 2 mango's were purchased or sold for?
> if its rude of me to ask, i apologize and dont mean to be rude.
> i am just curious. - e


you are not rude, but I never owned either of those mandolins, nor did I keep any records of what they sold for.

----------


## Jim Garber

Earl: I know you are asking for an estimate for repair but I can second Brad's reference and say that Retrofret has an excellent repair department and they will give you an idea of the cost of the restoration. I have dealt with them for many years.

----------


## BradKlein

Mike - Thanks so much for posting that youtube above (post 33) of Julian Lage playing the Mango guitar that was at RetroFret.  I had not heard that before. Julian is such a wonderful player!  It's really quite a privilege to have neighbors like that in the 'hood. Gotta love Brooklyn!

----------


## Earl Kayoss

i would *really really* like to have that one with the head on the headstock.
i would imagine that whatever musicians you sat down to play with,
 would really get a kick outta seeing that mandolin and hearing it play.
it bothers me that i cant have it,
which is completely unreasonable but, still...
seems like it would be a blast to have that one.
i just want it.

are figured heads on mandolins common? uncommon?
did the major manufacturers do them or just the boutique builders?
am i asking too many questions?
if so, please tell me.
bumping into these 2 mandolins was like bumping into a door accidently...
 and it opened up to reveal something interesting to me.
i have a million questions and everything you tell  me is brand new and interesting things to me.
i'll try to keep it to a minimum, that's all i can say.
thx for evrything so far.
you're a good bunch.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

sorry, Jim.
I am definitely only gonna let them touch the mandolin, as per Brad.
no matter what.

that was just my impatience for having to wait 2 days but...
in the end, its going to Brooklyn.

- e

----------


## Jim Garber

Probably more figured heads on violins than mandolins but I have seen a few.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

i wonder what happened to Mr. Mango?  :Smile: 


(that sounds silly somehow, doesn't it?)

but i do wonder what happened to him.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Julian Lage - 1934 R.A. Mango

was *totally awesome.*

----------


## Earl Kayoss

it was beyond totally awesome.

----------


## Frank Ford

That's a cool old mandolin, for sure - reminds me of Martin style 20, and Lyon&Healy "A"

Bits of binding should be no problem - like the tuner buttons, it's ivory-grained celluloid, or "ivoroid."  At fifty bucks, you got a good deal on the case, and the mandolin inside was a gift. . .

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Thx Frank.

you dunno how much i cant wait to see it all spruced up and hear it play.
i dont think the buttons are celluloid, the binding... maybe.
but, i am sure the shop in Brooklyn
will know all the components.

i am hoping that part of what they'll do for me is gimme a spec. sheet on this mandolin that
describes all the parts and the woods and the dimensions and all,
i'd love to know the minutia.

and i guess the best time to get an est. on its value is when its all spruced up.
this may take a few weeks but, i am looking forward to taking care of this instrument, it'll be fun to watch the process unfold.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

well, its Monday.
I'll call Retrofret today and let you know what they have to say about the Mango.

- e

----------


## BradKlein

Hey Earl,  I expect that they will ask you to make an appointment to bring it in for an estimate on condition and repairs.  Remember, they are a busy shop who work hard to pay the rent - they're not a public reference library or a charitable service  :Smile: . They do appraisals, repairs and sales for a living.  

But the good news is you're sure to enjoy a visit if you haven't been there before, and they've always been generous sharing their knowledge with me.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

*Understood, Brad and I cant thank you enuff, you, sir, were a tremendous, tremendous help to me here. Greatly appreciated.*

they open at 12 noon, close 7pm, maybe they can take it in tomorrow?
I'd shoot there straight from work, I get off at 3pm, they are apprx. 40  mins. west of me.

man, I'd give a limb to take a walk around that shop.
this is all pretty exciting to me. learning about mandolins from scratch.

I am 100% getting the Mango spruced up.
I need the 2 inches of binding and... the 5" crack looked after.
its not a contact wound, just from being dry so,
I have my fingers crossed that I can afford the work.
I work in a bait shop so...
I aint a rich man.
Just for the sake of the instrument, I hope my finances allow for the repairs and I need to get the sunfish done too.
Unfortunately, I caused the sunfish some damage just mucking about with it.

*does anyone care to wager a guess on value of the mango?*
i been lookin' on the web and ...
I see "boutique" old mando's going for $1500-$3k.
and none of those look as impressive as the Mango.

But, in the end, my own personal guess would be: $500 for the Mango + its oroginal case.
*Do you folks think $500 is in the ballpark?*

- e

----------


## Ed Goist

> [B]...snip...
> But, in the end, my own personal guess would be: $500 for the Mango + its oroginal case.
> *Do you folks think $500 is in the ballpark?*
> - e


No way. Do not sell it for that little.
If you posted that mandolin + case on the Cafe Classifieds for $500 it would not last 30 minutes.
I don't know how much it's worth, but I do know it's worth considerably more than $500.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Thx Ed.
Its my intention to fix/keep.
its the cost of repairs that'll decide what I do but so far,this forum has basically said repairs shouldnt cost an exorbitant amount of $$$. I sincerely hope thats true.
i will call retro in less than 1 hr. when they open.
i was hoping folks might have fun and just guess at what its worth.
i spent time searching the web for old/boutique mando's and this mango seems rather nice compared to some i saw that were asking for decent coin.

but then again,
there's noone on this planet that can be more in the dark on mandolins then myself so, i am at a loss here with this.

thats y i appreciate all you kind folks being of such great assistance to me here.

- e

----------


## MikeEdgerton

A guess at what it's worth would be just that, a guess. Without another example on the market there isn't a market value. Beyond that if you found someone that was collecting this builder they would obviously be interested in obtaining it. Unfortunately when it comes to mandolins being well built and rare doesn't always equate to a higher value. Basically it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. That being said put it on eBay with a low starting bid and a ridiculously high reserve. You'll find out what someone is willing to pay for it that way.

----------


## Ed Goist

No problem Earl. However, as I said, I really don't know much about the value of mandolins. I was speaking only from the ill-informed position of what I'd consider spending for any instrument like that one.

So, you should definitely have someone who knows their stuff look at the instrument before you either put money into fixing it, or selling it. I'd hate to have you put hundreds into it to repair it based on what I said, only to find out later it's worth much less than expected.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

THX GUYS , AGAIN...
SELLING IS FAR FROM MY INTENT AND DESIRE.
FIXING IS MY INTENT AND DESIRE.

BUT, AND CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG HERE...
MY CURIOSITY (OOOOPS, SORRY 'BOUT CAPS, i am at work and forget caps is on.)
correct me if i am wrong but...
i think my curiosity as to value is to be expected, nothing weird, just your avg. normal curiosity.
i'm not trying to ascertain value to sell it,
just to edify my knowledge in general, thats all.
i am quite fond of it and hope to fix her up,
just because i care about instruments in general, like little wayward children, they are to me.
i just think we should be kind to them.

ooooooooooooooh!!!! its 12 noon, lets call retrofret!
pretty exciting for me now.

- e

----------


## BradKlein

Some instruments are such oddballs, that even if they are wonderful oddballs, they are VERY hard to appraise.  Lot's of folks here at the Cafe, pros and amateurs can estimate a value on a Gibson or Martin or Epiphone, etc, because tens of thousands were made and hundreds are bought and sold each week. But the two instruments you've posted recently are VERY unusual and even a seasoned pro can only make a guess as to what they might sell for. They won't make you rich, but they would sell for somewhere between a few hundred and a couple thousand dollars.  You won't know for sure unless you try to sell them - but a pro appraisal from a top notch dealer will give you an idea.

----------


## mrmando

Provided that the Mango has the sound to compete with the instruments it's trying to copy (L&H Style A, Martin Style 20), I see no reason to think it shouldn't be worth $2–3K. But since it's by an obscure maker, it's all down to the sound. Someone would have to play this and fall in love with it in order to pay that much. 

There was another guy who worked for Raphael Ciani and then went on to make his own guitars & mandolins (some of which were also L&H-inspired) and did quite well for himself...

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Thx again Brad. You're a good man.

I did speak with George at Retro.
he was a very very nice man and a pleasure to speak to.

he said...
he is not the one to speak with at Retro in regard to the Mango.
He says his associate Peter is the man.
Peter will not be in til tomorrow.
And I gotta speak to Peter or another associate over there about arranging to have the mando brought in to them...
and repaired.
he said expect a 2 week turnaround time on repairs but, he said i cant hold him to that w/o them having the beast in hand.
he also said...
no way he's giving me an estimate on value w/o having it in hand.
*he did say its an incredibly rare mandolin* and
I emailed him and Peter a link to this thread
so that they can have an initial look at it that way... on the web.

all that said...
i gotta call back tomorrow at noon when Peter arrives and go from there.
Great!!! More suspense for me!!!
Oh well, its this stage of the game that makes it all fun and worthwhile in the end.

I agree ebay is one way to sorta get an idea of value.
However, I can already tell that Retro are top-notch guys and if they give me a figure, I'd be comfortable with what they say.

keep in mind tho, I've never once said I had any intention of selling,
its merely normal curiosity to wanna know the est. value of something you own and know little about...
i think its normal anyways.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Thx for your input there mrmando.
appreciated.
even in its current state, with 76 yr. old strings and some missing,
i can tell you that its loud and resonates really well.
one would think that new strings and a sprucing up will
amplify its admirable sound characteristics and playabilty.

- e

----------


## mrmando

Earl, if you can afford to keep it, play it and love it, that's likely to be the best way to go. I hope the repair doesn't set you back too much ... it could easily be more than you paid for the mandolin! Since you have two unusual mandolins there, and you've told us you have limited means, here's something to consider: Take both mandolins in and get an appraisal on the sunfish as well as a repair estimate on the Mango. If the repair turns out to be more than you can pay for, you can see if they'll take the sunfish in payment.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

I just got a call back from Retro.
I have an appointment to bring it in there
July 7th.
so that is a date i am really looking forward to.

I also now have an estimated value based on
what they have seen and know about the condition of the mandolin.
*keep in mind though,
it dont count until they have it in their hands.*
right now, estimated value: $5,000-$5,500.

what do you guys think about that?

-e

----------


## nobullmando74

:Disbelief:

----------


## Earl Kayoss

r.a. mango guitars evidently go for between $10k and $15k.
'twoud be nice to trip over one of those whilst wandering about a cluttered antique store.
'twould also be nice to trip over a Loar signature as well, evidently.

i think there's a bit more to this mango mando, in that,
its a little piece of NY history too.

-e

----------


## mrmando

Well, with an estimate like that, it should be worth the wait! 

I think you have "the touch," Earl. Between now and July 7 you should occupy yourself with more visits to out-of-the-way antique shops.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

i bought a guitar last september (i think) for $800.
I sold it for $6k less than a yr. later.
that was nice but...
i kinds know what i'm doing with guitars.
i do know a bit about them but i am certainly not an expert.
of the 6 billion folks on earth, i know the least about mandolins, i assure you.

these 3 mandolins have been complete happenstance.
but...
with the exception...
that you guys on this forum helped me.
it was this forums estimate of $160-$200 value on the sunfish that had me think...
"if the sunfish is worth $200, this "RAMANGO" (remember :Laughing: )
has got to be worth more than $200."

so, huge thx to Mandolin Cafe and all the kind folks here, you guys certainly contributed to the purchase of the mango and
certainly pointed me in the best direction possible when you suggested Rerofret.
the call back i got from Retro was not from george, it was from one of his associates there.
I was surprised to receive that call and they seem fairly excited about the mango, so, thats nice.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Retro tells me today 6.5.12 that i may have mis-heard the value estimate and it should be: $3500-$5000.
sorry. my bad, evidently.

- e

----------


## Rick Lindstrom

:Popcorn:  :Popcorn:  :Popcorn:

----------


## Earl Kayoss

<Post removed by moderator. Please confine selling to the classifieds>

----------


## Bill Snyder

Earl, selling is confined to the classifieds so when you get it back you will need to post your ad there. It is free.

----------


## MikeEdgerton

I'd also consider consigning that to the shop doing the repairs. I think their estimates of the value are pretty generous. They might have contact with somebody collecting this builder. I'd be surprised if it got that much here or on eBay.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

*i am so sorry folks, i didnt mean to go against forum rules, i would never purposely do that.*
i am new here, i hope you can forgive my accidental mis-step.
i will post in the proper area at the appropriate time.

as far as the shops value estimation...
it could change once they have it in hand and...
they did tell me other neat stuff about this mango thats unknown to you good folks at the moment because i forget most of what they told me. i have certainly researched other "boutique" mando's and i can tell you this for 100% sure...
 my mango, compared to what i saw selling for $3k is waaaaaay more intense than those mando's. it aint even close really.
this mango is "special" for several reasons and there's another "famous/known" guy involved with this mango, his name is also on the inner label.

i have interest from a few members here and i am not opposed to letting the shop sell the mango either.
i am at a loss here because i've never sold a mando before and dont know the best way to go about it.
i do appreciate your stellar advice, its a big big help to me.
you all know what i paid for it so believe me, i am prepared to be more than reasonable with the pricing when the time comes. probably way more than reasonable.
and, until i know what the work is gonna cost me, and what the final appraisal is, i am at a loss as well there... on pricing.

it really is a beautiful little mandolin though.
the back/sides wood is gorgeous and photos dont do it justice.
the scroll head is in perfect shape and real neat to see.
the way he made that cover for the machine heads is pretty neat and the machines are pristine back there, they've been protected all this time.
the case is in awesome shape.

after the work, hopefully i will have a written description from the shop that includes all the specs and nuances.
obtaining that is sorta critical to me.

you folks have been awesome.
any further help/insight would be greatly appreciated.

- e
6.26.12

----------


## MikeEdgerton

Mandolins that are from lesser known builders are obviously more valuable to someone collecting that builder. I've been buying and selling vintage instruments for years and I would have never valued that as high as the shop has, to be honest I wouldn't have valued it at half what they have. It's a nice mandolin but without the right brand name on it the resale value in the market suffers. Most guitar folks don't understand why Martin mandolins don't take a fraction of what a Gibson will. It's simply what people are willing to pay. The Martin's are well built instruments as one might expect but they just never achieved the market value that the Gibson models did. If it was me I'd look at what the shop could do before I sank any money into it.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Thx so much, Michael.
My own "appraisal" was based on other mando's that i looked into specifically to try to have something to judge mine against.

as far as guitars, i can tell you of a few extremely extremely unknown brands that certainly do command major bucks.'its just that so few people are "in the know" about them that they would never in a million years think they'd command the prices they do. But... they do, nonetheless.

when i compared the mango's build characteristics/qualities against the "comparable" mando's I found, the mango was so far ahead of the others as far as desirable characteristics. I mean, its pretty much inarguable in that regard.

and yet, something/anything is only worth what someone will pay.

evidently, the shop does/or may know folks who are interested in a mango and the shop knows members of the mango family actually.
so, there's a bit more to the mango than is currently known/in view here that will figure into its "value."

i paid $50 so.. whatever i get, i'll be thrilled and, i am in a position to give someone a real sweet deal because its all profit to me and i am not a bloodthirsty fellow. i'd rather see someone be thrilled with the deal they got than profit excessively from the sale.
i want someone to have it that will truly enjoy it and i want the little bugger to be happy and in the right hands.
i will keep the sunfish and have fun with that.
i actually care about this little mandolin and i think it deserves the right owner, not me.
i think it deserves some attention and sprucing up, just for the sake of the instrument.
if all that comes of this is the instrument is returned to the best condition it can be, and I keep it,
i will be way happy for the instrument and quite content to have a nice little mandolin.
but, i'd rather see it with the best owner/player possible, again, just for the sake of the instrument.

- e

----------


## Goodin

Wow, what a cool old mandolin!  I have enjoyed reading this thread and viewing the pictures.  Mr. Mango's build quality is top notch.  Just based on the pictures it doesn't appear it needs much repair work.  Maybe just a restring and set up.  Shouldn't cost too much.  Of course you can't know for sure until an in hand inspection.

----------


## Earl Kayoss

Goodin, thx so much for the kind words.

it needs 2 things....

1. a  piece of binding along the side of the neck, about 1/8" high and 2" long needs to be replaced and...
2. there's a 5" hairline "crack" (bad word, its not a crack really) needs to be addressed on the top of the mando.. its not from a contact wound, i think the bugger's been sittin' for quite some time and the wood was dry. i dampened a coupla pieces of sponge, dropped it in there and the thing seals itself but obviously that is not a solution. so, thats it.
two issues that everybody's tellin' me are no big deal.

otherwise, you should see it. its just in remarkable remarkable shape.
its over 75 yrs. old, that said, i think its in remarkable shape.
too bad my camera is crap. the wood is really really nice.
you cant see the flames and the grain pattern too well from my lousy photos/camera.
i think it may be cherry wood but i am not 100% sure.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

tomorrow is a big day for the little maNGO mando.
6 weeks is finally up and i can take it into brooklyn tomorrow.
i am pretty excited about it,
it's gonna be pretty neat gettin' as much additional info as i can on it.
its gonna be nice to have it attended to.
i am gonna ask for a "spec sheet" on it.
have them write down the build details, measurements, etc. etc.

i'm taking the sunfish mnandolin along with me.

- e

----------


## Earl Kayoss

took it to retrofret who previously told me it may be worth $3500-$5500 but....


that assessment may change when we have it in hand.

they looked at it, basically had nothing good to say about it at all...
offered me $600 which i took.

I actually wanted to keep it at that point but...
i asked them to put a set of strings on it for me, so i could play it when i got home but they said no to that. they wouldnt put strings on, which i woulda paid for. they said they didnt wanna take a chance damaging the mando by putting strings on it.

oh well.
i thought the case alone was worth $200.
so, to have to take $600 was pretty lousy, to say the least.
it was a crushing blow.

well, they say they'll fix it up and sell it for a few thousand dollars.
that's nice.

i had offers on the mango, nice offers, but after retrofret telling me it was basically garbage,
i couldnt in good conscience go thru with any of the offers tendered me.

- e

----------


## F-2 Dave

Bummer, Earl. Sorry to hear that you didn't get as much as you thought you might. What did they say about the sunfish?

----------


## MikeEdgerton

Ed, I'm pretty sure that everyone that offered here knew what they were buying. Your decision to sell it for $600.00 to Retrofret was your choice and yours alone, you owned the instrument. To be honest I think $600.00 wasn't a bad price, I wouldn't have paid that for it. They may make money on it when they resell it, they won't make anything near the percentage you did over what you paid for it. Look at it as a home run, I certainly would.

----------


## mrmando

Now for sale in the Classifieds at $2.4K...

----------


## Jim Garber

> Now for sale in the Classifieds at $2.4K...


*"This item is currently on hold."* Boy, that was quick. Did anyone here get it?

Frankly, I must have been trying to forget this incident. I was at Retrofret's Xmas party and could have taken a look at this mandolin. I completely forgot about it.

I had given the OP a bunch of information and suggested that he take it Retrofret for restoration but that if he was interested in selling it I was interested in buying. I was very annoyed when he sold it to them without even offering me a chance to buy it. Oh well. Those are the breaks.

----------


## JeffD

My antenna went up a bit when Retrofet offered $600 and then said they did not want to take a chance putting a new set of strings on, for fear of damaging it.   :Disbelief:  
Seems a contradiction, at least on the surface.

I entirely agree with Mike though, that selling it for that price would be a home run, all things considered. Its what you got for what you paid, as opposed to what you got compared to what you think you might could have got.


I tell you though, I would not have sold that thing. I would have played the potatoes out of it for the rest of my life.

----------


## MikeEdgerton

When I looked at the classifieds yesterday this was less than 2.4K. They must have modified the listing. I still wouldn't have paid $600.00 for it. I've owned too many neat mandolins that weren't worth what I hoped they'd be worth.

Jim, is it marked on hold on their site? It isn't marked that way here that I can see.

----------


## tmsweeney

I must have the Lyon and Healy mandocello
must resist urge of second mortgage on house......

actually I saw a Douglas Woodley Lyon and Healy style mandocello a few years back

probably out of my price range - still those are beautiful instruments

----------


## Jim Garber

> Jim, is it marked on hold on their site? It isn't marked that way here that I can see.


They either made a mistake earlier on *their page* on their site or else there was some potential buyer's remorse. It no longer say that any more.

----------


## Jim Garber

> I must have the Lyon and Healy mandocello
> must resist urge of second mortgage on house......
> 
> actually I saw a Douglas Woodley Lyon and Healy style mandocello a few years back
> 
> probably out of my price range - still those are beautiful instruments


I would get  L&H MC any day if I played MC. I think I would go for that over a Woodley, tho i really liked that black F2 he made -- I played it for quite some time at CMSA.

However, just because something looks like an L&H does not make it one. I am not sure about this Mangolin. I may have to visit it. I have a feeling that unless someone is a RA Mango fan, it will be there for awhile.

----------


## tmsweeney

I think Mandolin Bros or maybe Bernuzio had a black Lyon and Healy Mandola - don't remember the year- but I think they were asking 4K+ - still a very cool looking instrument
A friend of mine purchased Norman Blake's style c  L&H mandolin off of him  was probably 10 years ago- I thought it was great instrument- but I would be afraid to play it much for fear of scratching or something with my clumsy paws.
I do remember seeing Norman play it (before he sold it) up in Troy NY - I think they did Old Mother Flannigan's
he only used it for the one tune
had a very nice ring - not the low bark of a Gibson

----------


## Jim Garber

L&H mandolas are also fine instruments, no doubt and $4K is a good price but I assume that that was a few years back.

Just because this Mango has a headstock scroll does not mean it sounds like an L&H, tho it might be a nice mandolin in any case. If I can take a look at it in person, I will report back on this thread.

----------

Pete Jenner

----------


## brunello97

The RF site is listing it as "This item has been sold."

However Steinbeck-ian, esta historia es bastante caseoso.  

Mick

----------


## Jim Garber

As they say in Cyberia, WTF! I guess I won't be visiting it. I will ask again... anyone here bought it? Maybe I will call to find out the dirt.

----------


## Jim Garber

Well, i checked out Retrofret's FB page:




> Two exquisite mandolins have just finished their check-ups and are out looking for new homes. Both originally handmade in New York by Italian American craftsmen! Ciao bella! 
> 
> R. A. Mango Carved Top Mandolin (1936) and D'Angelico "Scroll" Headstock Carved Top Mandolin (1942)


Now we know... I also found out they outbid me on that amazing Gibson all girl band with the K-5. These guys are on  the warpath. Good they are my friends.

----------


## mrmando

> I must have the Lyon and Healy mandocello


Eh? What? Is somebody selling one?

----------


## ajr

G'Day From Australia,

I am a regular visitor to The Cafe, but to date haven't posted anything here. It's a great meeting place for all manner of Mandolin and Music lovers in general. Thanks for all of the interesting info and discussion.

I felt I must let you know, particularly you Jim, as you seemed interested in it, that I was the buyer of the Mango Mando from Retrofret. I just couldn't resist it. It is one beautiful looking instrument. I'm not sure how it plays yet, but it is probably better than my current level. I'm a relative newcomer.

Yes, I am suffering M A S. I call it Mandolinitis. I really thought I had it under control. But, alas, it got me again. I have managed to become the custodian of many Mandolins over the last year including a couple of quite rare Stahl/Larsons.

I would have to agree with Mike at one level about buying more obscure brands, if resale value was a strong driver. It's not for me and I have been fortunate enough to have available funds to acquire some wonderful instruments. I am so taken by aesthetic and the hope that the tonal qualities will at least match, that my heart has ruled my head right through this buying phase, which sadly, due to economic reasons, has basically come to an end. Well I thought it had until The Mango showed up.

Anyhow I'll get off now. Thanks again for all of the great stuff on this site. I'm not a great emailer so may not respond to anything that may arise from this post at great speed, but I will try to do so.

All The Best

----------


## Pete Jenner

Haha good on you Alex. If you manage to get down to Canberra at Easter for the National, I'm sure many of us would love to see the Mango.

----------


## Jim Garber

Alex: Congratulations. It sounds like it is in good hands. I am sure my friends at RetroFret surely know how to pack it well for its journey to the other side of the world. Please post here with your impressions of it when it arrives. *Graham McDonald* is in Canberra -- a mere 12 hours or so from where you are. I am sure he would be very interested in seeing and playing this one.

----------

JEStanek

----------


## Pete Jenner

> Alex: Congratulations. It sounds like it is in good hands. I am sure my friends at RetroFret surely know how to pack it well for its journey to the other side of the world. Please post here with your impressions of it when it arrives. *Graham McDonald* is in Canberra -- a mere 12 hours or so from where you are. I am sure he would be very interested in seeing and playing this one.




It's a very short plane ride and Graham is usually at the National too. As a mandolin historian and a big fan of the L&H models that inspired this one, I'm sure he would love to give it the once over.

BTW Jim if you can do Brisbane to Canberra in 12 hours by road you're a better man than me Gungadin.  :Wink: 
There is a little road block called Sydney to be negotiated. I've done Sydney to Brisbane in 10 hours but that was breaking all the rules in my Saab turbo.

----------


## Jim Garber

> BTW Jim if you can do Brisbane to Canberra in 12 hours by road you're a better man than me Gungadin. 
> There is a little road block called Sydney to be negotiated. I've done Sydney to Brisbane in 10 hours but that was breaking all the rules in my Saab turbo.


I never drove in Australia -- in fact, never been there...ah, one day. I just did a Google map direction to see how far one city is from the other.

----------


## Pete Jenner

Yeah those google map thingies are great but they don't take into account the endless roadworks or city gridlock.
I may be driving in America at the end of the year - starting in New York. This is a public safety announcement.  :Whistling:

----------


## Jim Garber

Peter: We had a nice visit from Graham when he was in New York a few years ago. It worked quite nicely since Ralf Leenen (Embergher expert and virtuoso classical player) was also in our town (north of  the city) to visit from Belgium.

----------

Pete Jenner

----------


## Pete Jenner

Fantastic Jim. That's a heck of a lot of mandolin knowledge in one place.

----------


## Jim Garber

> Fantastic Jim. That's a heck of a lot of mandolin knowledge in one place.


A bit of seredipity, I must say.

----------

Pete Jenner

----------


## JeffD

> I felt I must let you know... that I was the buyer of the Mango Mando from Retrofret. I just couldn't resist it. It is one beautiful looking instrument. I'm not sure how it plays yet, ...


Congratulations! I am happy it is in the hands of someone who will appreciate it and give it the attention it deserves. Its a unique beauty and will turn heads. 

When you have played it awhile please do check in and let us know what you think.

----------


## ajr

> Congratulations! I am happy it is in the hands of someone who will appreciate it and give it the attention it deserves. Its a unique beauty and will turn heads. 
> 
> When you have played it awhile please do check in and let us know what you think.


Thanks Jeff and you other well wishers. I can't wait til she arrives here. Will let you know what she's like. And Jim you'll have to come down here some time, as I will have to get up there.

It sounds a bit of a worry that Peter is issuing a Public warning that he intends driving in the US later in the year. Mind you Sydney to Brisbane in 10 hours is pretty quick.

Re the National. I am hoping to get down again this year. I missed last year altogether.
It's a great relaxed Festival. If so I will try to catch up with Graham, (I see he is into Lyon and Healy Mandos. I have a couple of C's and a B, but the A has still eluded me at this stage.)

Also Peter, are you going to the Nash? If so maybe we could catch up there.When is the Blue Mountains Festival? It's around then I think. It's meant to be very good as well.

Well thanks again and all the best to you all.

----------


## Pete Jenner

Hi Alex,

The Blue Mountains Music Festival is on the 15th, 16th and 17th of March. It's gone very bluesy these days.

I'll be working at the National (office duties apparently) not sure of my roster though - I'll PM you my mobile number.
Some good international acts this year with the likes of Mike Compton, Andy Irvine and Paul Brady.

Cheers,

----------


## mrmando

Well, Graham tells me he is making another U.S. trip ... at least to the West Coast. Hope to have a chance to sit down with him for a bit when he gets here. Maybe show him the Lyon & Healy mandola along with whatever electrics are around.

----------


## peterk

I recently acquired an old Italian bowlback mandolin which has a large paper label stuck inside: "Repaired by R.A. Mango, Guitar and Mandolin fabricator, etc..etc.." Sadly, even if there was a maker's label in there, the Mango's label would have covered it completely and solidly using carpenter's glue. :Laughing:  That's a real shame because I might never be able to confirm the maker's ID.

----------


## Jim Garber

I have the same thing -- a very ornate fluted mandolin (in bad shape) -- all sorts of verboten materials decorate it, too. It is obviously Italian tho there are two New York store(?) labels covering whatever original label there is. I am planning on getting this to a luthier someday and will ask him or her to see about carefully removing the label.

OTOH, Peterk: have you posted any photos of this one on any threads. This would be a *good thread* to put them.

----------


## peterk

Jim, yes, I should post some pictures of that one.....it's also a fluted bowl Italian which I think has some Vinaccia traits, but I need further research on that, and also some of your help.

----------

