# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Curious about Monteleone Grand Artist mandolins

## Bernie Daniel

A few weeks ago by chance I came across a short, albeit interesting bio on John Monteleone -- while the piece focused mostly on his guitars the Grand Artist mandolins were also mentioned in passing and were highly praised as well.  

But it got me to thinking that while I have had a chance to play many fine quality mandolins over the years, including a couple of Gibson Loar-signed  models, a few MM's, and a DMM, and also fine mandolins by such as Gilchrist,  Kemnitzer, and Dudenbostel I've never laid a pick on a Monteleone mandolin.

Typically, the Grand Artist mandolins are widely respected and highly acclaimed and they typically exchange hands in the high teens to low twenty thousand dollar (USD) range.

I'd say not so different in price then something like a new top line Gibson MM or Weber 10th Anniversary model for example.  They would typically sell in the same price range as a used Gilchrist and certainly more than an excellent new Kimble F-style, Weber Fern, or a Collings MF5 Deluxe V for example.

Which finally brings me to my question.  Have these Grand Artists mandolins ever been used seriously in a bluegrass setting?  If so by who and if not why not?

Thoughts?

----------


## Mandobar

Grisman. Phil Rosenthal of the Seldom Scene (I played his.  It was quite nice).

----------


## AlanN

This fella's been known to pick some grass on one.

----------


## Gary Hedrick

A comment on this............I have owned two of his mandolins........an early Grand Artist and one of the last F5's he built (the ones with his name on them) and have played several others.   No disrespect intended for the other Big Three makers but his instruments are in a different world when it comes to artistic expression.  He creates works of art that people play.

----------


## Jim Garber

Mike Marshall and the folks in the Modern Mandolin Quartet have played John's instruments. In fact, Mike's famous mandocello is a grand artist model.

I have played a good handful of John's mandolins belonging to friends of mine. I also own a GA mandola. My favorite mandolin is a Baby Grand (2-point model) from the 1980s which belongs to an excellent player near me. There was anumber simple A5 model I played at the 2004 CMSA convention that was amazing. I have also played other of John's mandolins at a few dealers and have yet to find one that didn't sing sweetly to me. he is an excellent maker with a real touch for creating excellent tone. it is not quite the tone that some bluegrass players want but nonetheless appeals to me.

----------

JGWoods

----------


## JFDilmando

I have owned four of John's mandolins over the years... an early Loar copy which was an incredible, powerful, cannon of an F5.... two GA's one of which he built for me in the 90's, and lately a very ornate, simply sweet sounding Baby Grand.... Monte builds remarkable instruments, that are at the top of the list of modern instruments....

In answer to the original post, and as stated in the replies above, David G, was a early proponent of John's instruments... as was Mike Marshall.... Monteleone made relatively few mandolins over his career relative to his guitar output.... and his guitars, as are his mandolins have a devoted following....

----------


## sunburst

John Monteleone is a builder for whom circumstances of timing, talent, vision, craftsmanship, market, and other factors came together to result in some of the most stylistically innovative stringed instruments of our time, that remain close enough to tradition to be recognized, respected and loved by players, builders, listeners and other of all types.
Many builders have abundant talent and great craftsmanship, some have good marketing skills, a few have vision and some of them have the focus to realize their vision, but even with multiples of those things going for them, they still need a certain amount of luck to be able to fulfill their vision and remain marketable in the process. John Monteleone is one of the relatively few who has been able to do that. While they are works of art in many cases, his instruments are built on a solid foundation of instrument construction fundamentals and sound production. They are not just pretty sculptures that make music, they are high quality musical instruments that represent the art and vision of the builder, and John has been able to build those and have them taken seriously by "the world at large". No small feat when a substantial portion of the market admires close adherence to factory instruments of the 1920s and 1930s.
The market is what determines prices of instruments, and whether high prices of some instruments are warranted is an endless discussion with no possible conclusion, but if there are instruments that deserve their position at the top of the market, those of John Monteleone are in that group.

----------

Gary Hedrick, 

Glassweb, 

j. condino, 

jasona, 

JGWoods, 

Mike Black, 

Rob Fowler, 

tburcham, 

Vernon Hughes

----------


## Skip Kelley

Listen to Buddy Merriam's early recording's when he used his Monteleone GA. The tone of this mandolin is incredible. 
A local picker( and an extrordinary picker at that) has one for sale at Mandomutt. I played that mandolin and it has to be if not the finest but, one of the finest mandolins I have ever played. As John said the instruments are not only works of art but, are also able to produce some beautiful music.

----------


## greg_tsam

> No small feat when a substantial portion of the market admires close adherence to factory instruments of the 1920s and 1930s.


This is a very telling statement.

----------


## Spruce

> Have these Grand Artists mandolins ever been used seriously in a bluegrass setting?


My GA was the finest bluegrass mandolin I've ever laid fingers on, period.
But I don't know how _serious_ I was....     :Wink:

----------


## SternART

John is a true artist!  He creates sculptures to make music.

----------

Gary Hedrick, 

tburcham

----------


## Glassweb

I've played a number of Montys over the years but never _quite_ pulled the trigger on one. The Radio Flyer A model above is one I played and just about wrote the check for. Played a similarly 2-toned GA at the time (at John's studio/home on Long Island) that was superb as well.

While I admire John as a craftsman and a builder I really can't get behind most of his mandolin designs. His grand visions of design seem to translate better to guitars than mandolins... at least to my eyes. A mandolin is such a small instrument... and to try and cram all these extremes onto such a small body... well, they often seem a bit "overwhelmed" by all that's going on. No doubt he's a master builder and a visionary though...

----------


## mrmando

Here's Grisman during his Monteleone years:

----------

Mike Bunting, 

Tristram

----------


## Spruce

> A mandolin is such a small instrument... and to try and cram all these extremes onto such a small body... well, they often seem a bit "overwhelmed" by all that's going on.


A valid point for some of his designs...
But I think the subject of this thread sports the finest take on the traditional F5 design of all of 'em...

----------

Paul Hostetter

----------


## Jim Garber

It is hard to tell since the visuals are a little fuzzy in these two videos, but there are at least a few Monteleones here.

----------

mandolinlee

----------


## SternART

I had never seen that Merv Griffin Show video before....... pretty cool.........but if I'm not mistaken that might be a Kentucky Dawg mandolin that David is playing.

----------


## mrmando

> I had never seen that Merv Griffin Show video before....... pretty cool.........but if I'm not mistaken that might be a Kentucky Dawg mandolin that David is playing.


You'd know better than I would! I wasn't certain ... but it's a Monteleone design, at any rate.

----------


## Jim Garber

I am not a huge fan of some of the the more radical designs that John has done, whether on guitars or mandolins. However, I do like the look of  the GA and the Baby Grands I have seen and played. I saw quite a bit at the Guitar Heroes show at the Metropolitan Museum.

----------


## Glassweb

> A valid point for some of his designs...
> But I think the subject of this thread sports the finest take on the traditional F5 design of all of 'em...


agreed!

----------


## mandolirius

> I had never seen that Merv Griffin Show video before....... pretty cool.........but if I'm not mistaken that might be a Kentucky Dawg mandolin that David is playing.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Regardless, what an incredible clip. The great playing was one thing but the camera work was fantastic as well. Some really good shots of Steve and David's right hands at work and the way they shot the bass solo was perfect!

----------


## Marty Jacobson

Don Stiernberg's Grand Artist sounds amazing. I spent an afternoon in a room with him once. There were several signed Loars in attendance as well, but Don's Monteleone had tone that stood out from the crowd to me. I was just a high school kid, and I didn't know what it was, but I still remember it being pretty striking.

----------


## sgarrity

I've played one of his F5 copies and it was a serious mandolin.  I'd love to play one of the GA's.  I've loved that design from the first day I saw it.

----------


## Glassweb

Larry Wexer (wexerguitars.com) currently has a striking and superb GA for sale.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

I certainly appreciate all the views and perspectives on the Monteleone mandolins -- they remain most intriguing to me.  I do agree with many others that the Grand Artist is a thing of striking beauty -- the influence of a design artist who just happens to be an outstanding luthier as well on a classic instrument design.

I understand he had access to Lora-signed Gibson F-5 when he started.  But since he was already a per-eminent builder (carver) of his own arch top guitars one has to wonder how much he was influenced by the Loar graduations and how much he felt compelled to strike out on his own in carving the tops and backs?

----------


## Jim Garber

Please correct me if I am wrong about any of this. I believe that he originally worked in the Mandolin Bros' repair department. When he left there, he mostly was making his mandolins which were Loar clones. I remember some flattop guitars -- i think one he called the Hexaphone -- but I don't think he was really doing many archtops back then. BION except for maybe D'Angelico appreciated in the jazz community, most archtops were not all that popular in the late 1970s, early 1980s. At least that is the way I remember it. 

When i picked up my mandola from him,I remember a wonderful little archtop guitar he made about the size of a Selmer Maccaferri with the same style of cutaway but with f-holes. That was a beautiful guitar and a friend of mine at that time bought it and prob still has it. That was prob around 1985.

----------


## Willie Poole

Bernie, most of the fellows on here are gentlemen and don`t want to say anything bad about well known builders instruments and also there are many different sounds of mandolins that have been played on bluegrass recordings, a good recording engineer can do wonders with todays electronic gizmos, that being said I have only heard and played one of Monty`s mandolins and it was an F-5 Loar copy and I didn`t really care for it as far as using it for bluegrass...Now it was owned by a young lady that probably had no idea about set ups or even changing strings...It was well crafted instrument and played real easy but for bluegrass I didn`t care for it, like I said that was only one mandolin and is not a fair judgement of his work...And like a lot of people have stated on here, all builders make a "lemon" now and then...I know my opinion won`t mean much compared to what the others have said and they are builders (mostly) and know far more about his mandolins than I do but I have been playing bluegrass for over 50 years and I think I know what a good mandolin should sound like when playing bluegrass...

    Sorry if stepped on any toes but all of us don`t look for the same tone or sound in an instrument....

    Willie

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> Bernie, most of the fellows on here are gentlemen and don`t want to say anything bad about well known builders instruments and also there are many different sounds of mandolins that have been played on bluegrass recordings, a good recording engineer can do wonders with todays electronic gizmos, that being said I have only heard and played one of Monty`s mandolins and it was an F-5 Loar copy and I didn`t really care for it as far as using it for bluegrass...Now it was owned by a young lady that probably had no idea about set ups or even changing strings...It was well crafted instrument and played real easy but for bluegrass I didn`t care for it, like I said that was only one mandolin and is not a fair judgement of his work...And like a lot of people have stated on here, all builders make a "lemon" now and then...I know my opinion won`t mean much compared to what the others have said and they are builders (mostly) and know far more about his mandolins than I do but I have been playing bluegrass for over 50 years and I think I know what a good mandolin should sound like when playing bluegrass...
> 
>     Sorry if stepped on any toes but all of us don`t look for the same tone or sound in an instrument....
> 
>     Willie


Hi Willie,  I appreciate your view.  But I would not consider it negative criticism if his mandolins were not used for bluegrass -- there are many other music forms that use mandolins!  :Smile: 

Maybe he had in mind they'd be used for classical music or jazz.

Rather, I was just curious about the fact that these don't generally turn up as bluegrass mandolins.  Not that they have to of course.  

Without a doubt John Monteleone is a huge name in arch top guitars so there is no question as to his skills as a builder.  But never having touched one of his mandos I was just curious as to why the BG crowd does not, with the two noted exceptions, use them.

But what you say is very true we don't all look for the same sound in a mandolin.  That's probably a good thing! And my toes are fine!   :Smile:

----------


## Gary Hedrick

He started out making mandolins with Gibson on the headstock......like many others from that time....then he switched to ones with his name and then on to the Grand Artist.... etc etc etc.

I can also undstand the comments about "too much" going on for such a small instrument but none the less I sure am tickled by what I see him build....that one that Larry has is "reeeeel purty" as we say in southern Indiana....

----------


## Glassweb

[QUOTE=Jim Garber;1114391]Please correct me if I am wrong about any of this. I believe that he originally worked in the Mandolin Bros' repair department. When he left there, he mostly was making his mandolins which were Loar clones. I remember some flattop guitars -- i think one he called the Hexaphone -- but I don't think he was really doing many archtops back then. BION except for maybe D'Angelico appreciated in the jazz community, most archtops were not all that popular in the late 1970s, early 1980s. At least that is the way I remember it.[QUOTE] 

That's right Jim... he did start out doing repairs and building mandolins. I believe back in the 1970's he made a new neck for a National mandolin body that I had traded for.

----------


## Andy B

The Monteleones I have played, one or two Grand Artists and a couple of A models (interestingly called "Style B" I think) and most recently a Radio Flyer at the Woodstock Luthier Expo a few years back were all excellent bluegrass instruments and I liked them as much as anything I've played.  His reputation is well earned.

----------


## SternART

I have owned several of the Monty's pictured above & still have the next to the last F5, which has a few GA details.........abbreviated pickguard & Monty tailpiece.  It was made in '82 and John had been building GA's for awhile, but some folks on his list had ordered the more traditional look. It is a fabulous mandolin, loud & expressive. Probably is graduated like the Ga's he built in the same era.  Mike Marshall took it into the studio and test drove it, said if I ever were to let it go, so he has first dibs........John Reischman borrowed it for a Freight gig when his Loar needed some work.........it sounds very Loar-like, and is like I said very loud, especially in a pro like John's hands. It can certainly be used as a BG instrument, or for any other kind of music for that matter.  Pretty cool being in the audience & hearing Reischman play it for an entire Jaybirds show.......or to sit next to Gator & hear him put it through it's paces playing Bach, New Acoustic etc.  Grisman has some fine Monteleone's and I've also heard him pull some great tone out of my mandolin.  I think John has probably still built considerably more mandolins than guitars....... when he focused on mandos that was about all he was building for many years, even though the archtops are primarily what he builds these days.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> I have owned several of the Monty's pictured above & still have the next to the last F5, which has a few GA details.........abbreviated pickguard & Monty tailpiece.  It was made in '82 and John had been building GA's for awhile, but some folks on his list had ordered the more traditional look. It is a fabulous mandolin, loud & expressive. Probably is graduated like the Ga's he built in the same era.  Mike Marshall took it into the studio and test drove it, said if I ever were to let it go, so he has first dibs........John Reischman borrowed it for a Freight gig when his Loar needed some work.........it sounds very Loar-like, and is like I said very loud, especially in a pro like John's hands. It can certainly be used as a BG instrument, or for any other kind of music for that matter.  Pretty cool being in the audience & hearing Reischman play it for an entire Jaybirds show.......or to sit next to Gator & hear him put it through it's paces playing Bach, New Acoustic etc.  Grisman has some fine Monteleone's and I've also heard him pull some great tone out of my mandolin.  I think John has probably still built considerably more mandolins than guitars....... when he focused on mandos that was about all he was building for many years, even though the archtops are primarily what he builds these days.


Good information.  Interesting that I had that backward then -- the mandolins came first.  For some reason I had in mine a guitar maker who switched to mandolins.  I've always been struck by the appearance of the Grand Artist models and hope I get a chance to play one sometime.

----------


## dcoventry

Maybe the Monty's are too good for bluegrass. Anyone thought of that?

Ready? Set? Go!

----------


## greg_tsam

> maybe the monty's are too good for bluegrass. Anyone thought of that?
> 
> Ready? Set? Go!


evil!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## ninevah

Jim Garber...Here is the 2-Point you talked about. I submit this post without opinion on the original question. Remember Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder, and to me this concert with Byron Berline was a thing of beauty. This group (Gold Rush) had never played before as a band. They were just winging it in order to give Byron a back up band at a Hudson Valley Bluegrass Association Concert. There are in all 23 separate videos of the songs done at the concert if anyone is interested in listening to more of this wonderful Monteleone 2-point Mandolin (and Byron of course).

----------

Bill Baldridge, 

Bluejay, 

Jim Garber, 

Jim Nollman, 

pickerdd, 

tburcham, 

Tristram

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> Jim Garber...Here is the 2-Point you talked about. I submit this post without opinion on the original question. Remember Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder, and to me this concert with Byron Berline was a thing of beauty. This group (Gold Rush) had never played before as a band. They were just winging it in order to give Byron a back up band at a Hudson Valley Bluegrass Association Concert. There are in all 23 separate videos of the songs done at the concert if anyone is interested in listening to more of this wonderful Monteleone 2-point Mandolin (and Byron of course).


I like it!   If you have more video from that session I encourage you to post them on your channel.  That mandolin sure sounds to me like it works great for bluegrass!  :Smile:

----------


## ninevah

Bernie, I think this will get you to all the video's from this HVBA concert with Byron Berline. If not they are on the U-Tube channel PVFlash.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF930E5FE3AF435AF

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> Bernie, I think this will get you to all the video's from this HVBA concert with Byron Berline. If not they are on the U-Tube channel PVFlash.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF930E5FE3AF435AF


Great link!  Byron Berlin and Goldrush playing Goldrush. For this tune he should have had a Goldrush mandolin too!  But really that mandolin sounds really fine

----------


## Gary Hedrick

> Maybe the Monty's are too good for bluegrass. Anyone thought of that?
> 
> Ready? Set? Go!


I'm sure that no one will pick that up and run with it...............well at least I hope so......

----------

Mike Bunting

----------


## Jim Garber

> Jim Garber...Here is the 2-Point you talked about. I submit this post without opinion on the original question. Remember Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder, and to me this concert with Byron Berline was a thing of beauty. This group (Gold Rush) had never played before as a band. They were just winging it in order to give Byron a back up band at a Hudson Valley Bluegrass Association Concert. There are in all 23 separate videos of the songs done at the concert if anyone is interested in listening to more of this wonderful Monteleone 2-point Mandolin (and Byron of course).


Mike Sassano is an excellent player. He let me try his Monteleone Baby Grand a few years back after a concert. In my estimation it is prob one of the top five mandolins I have ever played.

----------


## Dave Greenspoon

A couple years back I had a chance to stop in at Mandolin Bros on my way home to Baltimore from Flatbush.  After a while I was invited to go into "the other room" with mandos and had the chance to A-B a signed Loar with a GA.  The Loar was unimpressive, if not disappointing.  The GA made my heart sing--the tone was exquisite, the playability incredible, and the overall aesthetic was off the charts.  It was simply a phenomenal axe.

----------


## allenhopkins

> Mike Sassano is an excellent player...


Hah!  Thought so.  He plays or played with _Out To Lunch,_ correct?

----------


## Glassweb

> Mike Sassano is an excellent player.


Agreed!

----------


## fredfrank

I played an amazing Grand Artist many years ago which belonged to Don Stiernberg. We happened to be at a jam at The Mid-Winter festival in Colorado. I believe Don was playing mandolin for Special Concensus at the time. Anyway, I loved the sound of that mandolin so much, I ordered one. 

I got it after a two-year wait, and played it pretty hard for another two years. It never really seemed to open up, so I sold it. While I didn't really care for the Grand Artist that I owned, I have to admit, it was the first mandolin I ever sold in the used market that went for more than it did when it was new. A lot more, actually.

----------


## Steve Sorensen

For those of you who have played both the Montleone Grand Artist and the Sumi Kentucky Dawg -- how would you compare the Monteleone's hand crafted to those built by Sumi ?

Thanks,
Steve

----------


## ninevah

> Hah!  Thought so.  He plays or played with _Out To Lunch,_ correct?


Allen, Yes though "Out to Lunch" rarely plays anymore. He is mainly now playing in "Too Blue"

Another video. I apologize for using the same tune as above (Dangerfield), but do so because this video gives a good view of the mandolin. Lighting is good, sound decent. Look at the design Monteleone put on the fretboard. It's a kind of starburst or fireworks star that spans the length of the fretboard.

----------


## SternART

[QUOTE=StevenS;1116323]For those of you who have played both the Montleone Grand Artist and the Sumi Kentucky Dawg -- how would you compare the Monteleone's hand crafted to those built by Sumi ?"

About like you'd expect........"some" of the Kentucky Dawg's are pretty great mandolins, and I guess they do _look like_ a Monteleone.  Some of those KM-1500's from that era are nice too.  But they aren't a Monteleone.

Like the difference between a "The" Loar...... to a Gilchrist...... or to to a vintage Lloyd Loar.
They look similar too.

----------


## mtucker

> About like you'd expect........


You mean like this?

----------


## SternART

Sort of, but more like a stock car driven by Richard Petty, that looks like the one you'd drive on the street, but has it's own tweaked suspension and motor.  Petty is driving the Monteleone, it just handles better, has more finesse and power, etc.

----------


## Jim Garber

> Hah!  Thought so.  He plays or played with _Out To Lunch,_ correct?


You are quite correct. They are a two mandolin band -- the other excellent player is Wayne Fugate who used to have a Grand Artist but at last count AFAIK is playing a Lawrence Smart.

----------


## Steve Sorensen

> ...it just handles better, has more finesse and power, etc.


Well-phrased -- and interesting how many copies (as illustrated by MTucker) capture the overt appearance but not the real heart of the original.

Steve

----------


## SternART

Grisman can get great tone out of mandolins, even less expensive ones, as illustrated on the Tone Poems projects. He used to tour with the Kentucky Dawg models, and on the DVD "David Grisman Quartet Live" filmed at the Montreal Jazz Festival in 1983, the band is using a few of the Kentucky built instruments. David also used them in the studio too......on "Acousticity" and "The David Grisman Acoustic Christmas"  (BTW that live Quartet DVD is worth having)

I always thought he sounded a notch better on his original GA that John built for him. Both acoustically in the room, and also amplified through the PA.  I heard better dynamics and a smoother tone....seemed to my ears he could pull more nuance out of the Monteleone.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> You mean like this?


Actually your example comparing a Rolls Royce Phantom with a Chrysler 300 SRT Hemi may not be making the point you intended.  The Rolls has a 6.7L V12 making about 475 bhp and it will set you back a cool $350K.  That particular Chrysler you showed sits on 22" wheels and costs less than $100K, it has a 6.1L V8 that makes over 425 bhp and the American will handily out perform the Rolls that weighs nearly a half ton more.  :Smile:

----------


## Paul Hostetter

> Maybe the Monty's are too good for bluegrass. Anyone thought of that?


An excellent thought! The original Loar-era F-5s were certainly not built for bluegrass, a type of music which didn't even exist yet. I marvel at the persistence of some folks who still cling to the notion that bluegrass is somehow the ultimate expression for a carved-top mandolin, or even a standard by which it needs to be measured. Lloyd Loar would have been deeply appalled by it. I doubt John Monteleone gives a FF. I have worked on a lot of original Loar mandolins, and a lot of other mandolins made by fine and inspired makers, including many by John Monteleone. Because I view mandolins as I do do violins, I have a bit more open mind about what makes for a great mandolin. John's mandolins are among the very finest I've had the honor to touch. If someone plays great bluegrass on one, it's because they're a great player, not because the mandolin was born to play bluegrass.

----------

almeriastrings, 

blauserk

----------


## dcoventry

> An excellent thought! The original Loar-era F-5s were certainly not built for bluegrass, a type of music which didn't even exist yet. I marvel at the persistence of some folks who still cling to the notion that bluegrass is somehow the ultimate expression for a carved-top mandolin, or even a standard by which it needs to be measured. Lloyd Loar would have been deeply appalled by it. I doubt John Monteleone gives a FF. I have worked on a lot of original Loar mandolins, and a lot of other mandolins made by fine and inspired makers, including many by John Monteleone. Because I view mandolins as I do do violins, I have a bit more open mind about what makes for a great mandolin. John's mandolins are among the very finest I've had the honor to touch. If someone plays great bluegrass on one, it's because they're a great player, not because the mandolin was born to play bluegrass.


Thank you for that touch reason. I think we all appreciate it.....well, some appreciate it.

----------


## Bernie Daniel

> ...John's mandolins are among the very finest I've had the honor to touch. If someone plays great bluegrass on one, it's because they're a great player, not because the mandolin was born to play bluegrass.


Or because the mandolin is too good for bluegrass?  :Smile:

----------


## Gary Hedrick

I think that some (not all) of the folks in bluegrass measure the value of a mandolin by how much it projects in a jam setting. Frankly some of that is just plain silly. I play my mandolins the most when practising and in playing in small jams or in a show setting. I don't need to play that loud to fit in as part of the total band.  The Monteleones that I have owned were not the most "in your face" mandolins but had a complexity of tone that I really enjoyed.  As I have older I have developed an appreciation for "texture" in the sound of my instruments. I don't need the fast car...the loudest mandolin or the loudest stereo.....

----------


## AlanN

Yep, the whole thing about loud is pretty ridiculous. Many years ago, when I had just acquired an old F-5, a hack at a jam said 'My F-12 is louder than your F-5'. I just looked at him and smiled.

I read an interview with Monroe where he was talking about a new tune he had written (think it was My Last Days On Earth), where he said all you would need is a bass and a guitar, if "he was quiet with it". Direct quote. Pickers should take heed right there.

----------


## almeriastrings

You don't need _massive_ amounts of volume on stage either. You need enough, but just about every decent mandolin has enough. I do think it is mainly jam players that put so much stock into pure volume, often at the expense of more subtle tonal properties.

----------


## Justus True Waldron

Off topic to the Monte discussion but on topic with this current discussion... Last year I overheard Shaun Lane of Blue Highway talking with someone about what he looks for in a mandolin. He basically said he doesn't really jam so tone and a tight projection pattern towards where a microphone would be are much more important to him than volume. I think that's probably the case with a lot of touring musicians that spend most of their time on stage. Based on what I've heard Sierra Hull say I'd be willing to bet she's in the exact same boat as well.

As far as Monte's go I only have one real experience. I've always liked them and heard a lot about them from my luthier who has a lot of respect for him and his work. Marty apprenticed in violin making in NYC somewhere around the time Monteleone was getting into building, and he was always very aware of him and his work as they crossed paths occasionally. When Marty started building mandolins as well as violins he says it was the David Grisman Quintet '80 album cover with the GA "scroll" on it that inspired him to try his own "slant" on the classic Loar F5. I finally got to play an 80 (or 82?) GA at Rudy's guitars in SOHO last year and enjoyed it immensely. It had that "feel" that I've only ever received from truly craftsman/artisan built instruments. The tone was very nice as well, but I didn't find it either as loud or "complex" as my mandolin... it was a little more "pure" almost if that makes any sense. 

Since I've only played that one I can't speak for the GAs as a whole, but if they are all like that I would have to guess that might have something to do with their lack of widespread use in bluegrass. IMO I think a kind of almost "gritty" tone sounds really good in bluegrass, and certainly a lot of people are looking for maximum volume and deep "woofy" bass. The GA I played was a beautiful instrument with a great sound, but it wasn't that. It didn't feel like it had been played much though, perhaps that could have something to do with it.... Another theory I have about GAs in bluegrass has to do with price: Most working musicians can probably scrimp and save up the 5k for a collings or even 10k or so for a nice hand built... but with Montes around 20k+ it seems unlikely your average touring band is going to have one. If you win a genius grant or are backed by a famous comedian then maybe... but then you'll probably spend the extra bit and go for the Loar!

----------


## Jim Garber

> IMO I think a kind of almost "gritty" tone sounds really good in bluegrass, and certainly a lot of people are looking for maximum volume and deep "woofy" bass.


Not sure about the "woofy" bass but I would say in general a more Monroe-like sound, at least from the traditionalists, maybe a little more cutting.




> Another theory I have about GAs in bluegrass has to do with price: Most working musicians can probably scrimp and save up the 5k for a collings or even 10k or so for a nice hand built... but with Montes around 20k+ it seems unlikely your average touring band is going to have one. If you win a genius grant or are backed by a famous comedian then maybe... but then you'll probably spend the extra bit and go for the Loar!


Outside of Loars, it seems like the BG crowd does have its favorites even in the high-priced range: Gilchrist, Dudenbostel, Nugget to name a few. I have a feeling that the Monteleone GA mandolins and his other designs are a little too different from the classic Loar look for the trad BGer and would guess it is more the look than the tone.

----------

