# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  Bob Taylor disses Tenors!

## multidon

I recently read the latest copy of "Wood and Steel", Taylor's company magazine. In the "Ask Bob" column, someone asked "Have you ever considered producing a tenor guitar?". Bob answers "Steve, to be funny but also honest, that's a model we call a good idea until the 12 people who want one buy it. Now, don't be offended, or write the editor, because he works for me. But that's our inside way of saying we don't believe the market is big enough."  :Mad: 

I think Bob underestimates the potential market. The questioner even points out the resurgence of popularity of the tenor. He also states that he bought one of Taylor's GS Minis, strung it up with only 4 strings, tuned it GDAE, and "it sounds better than any of my other tenors".  :Disbelief:  I wonder how many tenors he has and what kinds?

Taylor makes a really nice guitar, no doubt. I have a 314 I really like. I would definitely consider buying one if they made it and the price was right. How many of you would buy one? They would sell more than 12 I'll wager! :Smile:

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## sunburst

Let's see here... so, you're second guessing _Bob Taylor's_ reading of his own guitar market?? Oooo kayyyyy...
I don't read that as "dissing" tenors guitars at all. I read that as: "the market is far too small to tool up to make tenor guitars because we can't sell enough to make any money on them". Keep in mind that Taylor Guitars is a big, automated factory. They run instrument models in large batches, new models require new stuff (like tooling, maybe, or software). Also keep in mind that Bob Taylor is one of the best _business men_ running a guitar company.

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Marty Jacobson

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## Ed Goist

Here is the full question & answer.

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## multidon

John-
Not second guessing at all. Taylor can make whatever they want. Bob is obviously successful and has great business sense. He built that company from literally nothing to what it is today. I do think the tenor market is bigger than "12". Otherwise, if the market is so tiny, why are Gold Tone, Blueridge, and Breedlove making them? I assume they are making money. Thank you Ed for posting the article in its entirety. One important thing I left out is that Bob left the door open just a crack for a special run of GS Mini tenors someday. Chances are low, but I played a GS Mini and for a small guitar they sound great! If they ever offer a tenor version for $499 I would be first in line.

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## SternART

Kinda like asking why doesn't Gibson currently make an F4?

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## martinedwards

Martin are making them again too....

theres a Seth Lakeman sig model.

My guess is that if Martin sell a bunch at thier price point, Taylor might just jump in too.

In the mean time, us hobby luthiers will just have to keen on gathering up the crumbs!!

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## mrmando

Bob alludes to making some custom guitars for Taylor's 35th anniversary ... anybody know if tenors were among them? 

I guess we just need more artists playing tenors. Neko Case, Seth Lakeman, Martyn Joseph, Ani DiFranco, Carrie Rodriguez, Warren Ellis ... fortunately, the list is growing!

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## Ed Goist

> Bob alludes to making some custom guitars for Taylor's 35th anniversary ... anybody know if tenors were among them? ...snip...


No tenor - Taylor's 35th (2009) Anniversary Collection

The 35th Anniversary Collection will include the following Acoustics: 
* Dreadnaught Cutaway with Electronics in Brazilian,  
* GS Armrest Model in Cocobolo, 
* Parlor, 
* GC-12 Fret, 
* GA Cutaway with Electronics 9-string, 
* GS Cutaway with Electronics Baritone.  
The 35th Anniversary Collection will include the following Electrics: 
* Solidbody Feathered Koa, 
* Solidbody Quilted Maple, 
* T3 Koa, 
* T3 Cocobolo, 
* T3/B Koa, 
* T3/B Cocobolo.

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## MikeEdgerton

I think Bob Taylor's number was in itself a joke. I read that and if you read the rest he explains why. I'm guessing that he doesn't feel he can make enough money to do the tooling up to build them. I don't think that's a dis, I think he's being realistic. We tend to think that we are a huge number of people here at the cafe but in the overall scheme of things we're a very small part of any market. Back during the folk music scare of the 60's there were inexpensive tenor guitars all over made by Harmony under the Harmony and Stella brand names and there were Kays around as well. You'd see the occasional Gibson or Martin. Why? Because one of the more popular Top 40 groups at the time had a tenor guitar player. They were on TV, they were on the radio. Every pawn shop and guitar shop had them hanging on the wall. I know, I bought several and wish I'd kept one. How many do you see these days? There really is a reason that they aren't all over and it has nothing to do with Bob Taylor not wanting to build them. You couldn't turn on the radio without hearing the Kingston Trio, you couldn't turn on TV without these guys popping up on a variety show.

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...Back during the folk music scare of the 60's ...snip...


Love that phrase! It conjures black & white documentary footage of 1960s school children be taught to take shelter under their desks upon hearing the first few notes of _"Kumbaya"_.  :Smile:

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## MikeEdgerton

> Love that phrase! It conjures black & white documentary footage of 1960s school children be taught to take shelter under their desks upon hearing the first few notes of _"Kumbaya"_.


I stole that line from Martin Mull.

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## sunburst

> How many do you see these days?


In my whole life I can definitely remember seeing a total of two people playing tenor guitars.

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## multidon

> In my whole life I can definitely remember seeing a total of two people playing tenor guitars


.




> Neko Case, Seth Lakeman, Martyn Joseph, Ani DiFranco, Carrie Rodriguez, Warren Ellis


John, here are six at least! But I really think there are a bunch of us in the "closet" who don't necessarily gig with the tenor but enjoy them at home!




> Back during the folk music scare of the 60's


Hey! Now you're dissing folk music in the sixties? I LOVE that stuff! I LOVE the Kingston Trio! In my opinion if that stuff had caught on better and stayed around we'd be better off. I'd rather listen to the Kingston Trio than 90 percent of what passes for popular music these days. My humble opinion anyway as a certified grumpy old man!

The tenor guitar is a surprising little instrument. It was originally invented to give out of work banjo players in the 20's and 30's a guitar they could play without having to learn new fingerings. The original purpose for them is long gone. But they had a Renaissance in the 60's due to what was pointed out above and I think there is another Renaissance going on now as mandolinists and other GDAE folks are looking to expand their tonal palette. I will be joining the new tenor social group. It will be interesting to see how many members eventually sign up.

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## Ed Goist

> Originally Posted by sunburst
> 
> 
> In my whole life I can definitely remember seeing a total of two people playing tenor guitars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One big omission to the list above...
The rocker in me grins widely when I think that the player who has performed on tenor guitar in front of the most people is almost certainly Wes Boland of Limp Bizkit. Borland has played his custom Ibanez long-scale tenor guitar (tuned FFBE) in front of millions during the band's many stadium performances of the song _Nookie_.

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## EdHanrahan

> ... really think there are a bunch of us in the "closet" ...


Yeah but...  I think the point is that, unlike individual luthiers, Bob Taylor can't afford to sell to a closetful of customers, and he recognizes that.  Try stuffing his _real_ customer base into a closet (those 30 to 50 million guitar players) and it'd be the size of Rhode Island, plus maybe the rest of New England!!

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## Ed Goist

Though I'd love to see Gibson, Martin, Guild, Taylor and (especially) Seagull and Takamine offer production acoustic tenor guitars, I don't see how it could possibly be feasible. It seems to me that the acoustic tenor guitar market is now pretty much completely covered. 

At the entry level there's Blueridge, Gold Tone and Aria, all offering fine starter instruments, while the vintage Kays, Harmonys, Regals, Gibsons, and Martins (in ascending price ranges?) cover the rest of the demand.

Combine this with that fact that such a large percentage of buyers on the high-end prefer to go vintage, and it's very hard to see how a production or even small shop instrument fits in.

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## KanMando

Let's not forget Jimmy Dodd:




Bob

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## Ed Goist

Bob, great addition! Thanks for sharing that.

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## bruce.b

My brother has a GS Mini and it's an excellent little guitar. Sounds great and the neck is wonderful. I'd buy a tenor GS Mini the day it was offered. Maybe someone should try and see how many people would. Only the neck needs to be altered as the body is perfect for this. Maybe if enough people ask for one they'll do a small run like Bob said is possible. The scale length is 23.5" and I've thought about getting one to set up GDAE just to see how it works and then converting it back to a 6 string to give to my daughter.

bruce b.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Though I'd love to see Gibson, Martin, Guild, Taylor and (especially) Seagull and Takamine offer production acoustic tenor guitars, I don't see how it could possibly be feasible. It seems to me that the acoustic tenor guitar market is now pretty much completely covered. 
> 
> At the entry level there's Blueridge, Gold Tone and Aria, all offering fine starter instruments, while the vintage Kays, Harmonys, Regals, Gibsons, and Martins (in ascending price ranges?) cover the rest of the demand.
> 
> Combine this with that fact that such a large percentage of buyers on the high-end prefer to go vintage, and it's very hard to see how a production or even small shop instrument fits in.


You'll know there's more room in the market when you see one with the Rogue brand on it.

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## delsbrother

> My brother has a GS Mini and it's an excellent little guitar. Sounds great and the neck is wonderful. I'd buy a tenor GS Mini the day it was offered. Maybe someone should try and see how many people would. Only the neck needs to be altered as the body is perfect for this. Maybe if enough people ask for one they'll do a small run like Bob said is possible. The scale length is 23.5" and I've thought about getting one to set up GDAE just to see how it works and then converting it back to a 6 string to give to my daughter.
> 
> bruce b.


Can you just unbolt the neck and make a tenor one?

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## sunburst

> Can you just unbolt the neck and make a tenor one?



Having seen unknown numbers of tenor banjos converted to 5-string by unbolting one neck and bolting on another, it seems a strange twist of fate that a guitar might be converted _to_ tenor by bolting on another neck...
I suppose it could be done, as long as the scale length stays the same. there may be a "scar" on the body to the sides of the narrower neck where it bolts on, and there would be two extra bridge pin holes in the bridge (assuming a pin bridge) and bridge plate. That would work fine, but a new bridge would complete the transition.

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## multidon

Man, NOW I want one of those "Mickey Mouse" tenors like Jimmy Dodd had! What are those? Was it something just custom for him or was it produced by someone? Now THAT would be cool! That way, if somebody called your playing "Mickey Mouse" it would actually be a compliment!

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## Charlieshafer

I love tenors, but I can't see anyone making any money producing an actual model. Strictly a custom thing at this point. For any guitar manufacturer to sell anything at a $499 price point, they'd have to sell literally thousands. Re-working tooling or molds, as mentioned before, is simply way to expensive. 

The other market size indicator is how long available merchandise stays on the shelves. In the case of tenors, there are a lot of really sweet used ones (mostly Martins) that have been available for a while at some of the more notable dealers. Why would someone want a Taylor when you can get great vintage ones at the same price Taylor would probably need to get. 

I have no financial interest in any of these places, but here are a couple of the instruments I've been lusting over when someone leaves an extra bag of money on my front porch:

Gibson

Kay

electric Gibson

Blonde Gibson

Mahtin (getting ready for the Patriots)

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## multidon

Well guess what? Googled "Mickey Mouse Tenor Guitar" and found this page with the whole story:
http://uniqueguitar.blogspot.com/200...hybecause.html
Not a production item but something that was luthier made especially for Jimmy! Verrrrry Interesting.

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## delsbrother

IIRC, member Joel Eckhaus sells bolt on tenor necks for solidbody guitars and I believe he adds two little filler strips to cover up the "scar" - perhaps one could do something like that for the Taylor. I would think if you just left off the two outside bridge pins you could convert back and forth from 4 to 6 strings fairly easily.

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## Gary Hedrick

Why should Taylor make a tenor when there are so many really good ones available at Bananna's and on Ebayfpr really reasonable  prices..... The profit margine just isn't there.......(spoken by an owner of a '29 Gibson TG1 and a '40 Martin 0-18T)

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## Bob DeVellis

Shawn Colvin, Rabon Delmore, Eddie Condon (from time to time), and Chuck Berry (his first guitar) are others.

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## JeffD

The mandolin market must be huge in comparison to to the tenor guitar market, and Taylor doesn't even make mandolins.

What it tells you is that the guitar market is incomprehensibly huge compared to all that we discuss here, and if you are geared up to make money selling those kinds of numbers, its hard to make money selling fewer.

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## Fretbear

No disrespect, but I wouldn't even want a Taylor that had six-strings.

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## Mike Snyder

Ouch! Wouldn't see how that might be construed as disrespect. It's a "modern" sound, and the builds seem a little soul-less and sterile in their perfection, but the buisness model works and they sound good. Not a D-28 sound, but not bad either.

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## mrmando

Jimmy Dodd plays an ordinary Regal tenor in some other Mickey Mouse Club clips. 

I checked out the deluxe edition of _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_ from the library recently, and in the bonus features there's a short B&W promo that includes a better look at Kirk Douglas' tenor guitar ... before he hands it off to the prop master. There's another feature about the music which includes a photo of what looks like the recording session for "Whale of a Tale," and the guitarist is playing a standard guitar. So the tenor was, in the end, just a prop. 

If the list of tenor players is to include dead people, then we should mention John Mills Jr., the original guitarist/bass vocalist with the Mills Bros. He died of pneumonia in 1936, eight years into the group's existence and before many of their big hits. There's also Ken Trietsch of the Hoosier Hot Shots. And Daryl Hall of Hall & Oates is known to collect and play tenors.

Anyway, all you tenor nuts should consider coming out to Astoria, Oregon, first weekend in June for the Tenor Guitar Gathering.

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## MikeEdgerton

> No disrespect, but I wouldn't even want a Taylor that had six-strings.


To each his own. I have a Taylor that I bought in the 80's that is going back to the factory for a neck reset. It's a wonderful instrument and my Martins and Breedlove will have to do while it's down but I will miss it.

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...the guitar market is incomprehensibly huge compared to all that we discuss here...snip...


So true. So true. 
Consider the following (and think about it in terms of some of the things we discuss here on the Cafe). 
If you live in the US (and you do not live out in the middle of nowhere), you are almost certainly within 120 miles or less of:
* A brick-and-mortar store that has several dozen guitars (acoustic and electric) you can demo.
* A very good guitar technician.
* A very good guitar instructor.
* Several fantastic guitar players...I mean folks that will just blow you away with their chops.
* Several regular jams and song circles that will welcome guitar players with open arms regardless of the style of music they play and their skill level.
Guitarist just take this stuff for granted.

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## Charles E.

I too think that the Taylor Mini would make a nice tenor guitar. Taylor produces an 8 string Baritone guitar, how many of those things are they selling? I will not hold my breath for a tenor from them.

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## SternART

I've seen Barry Mitterhoff playing one recently......with Hot Tuna.

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## MikeEdgerton

*Here's* your chance to get even with Bob. Buy a Martin instead. NFI.

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## Ed Goist

> *Here's* your chance to get even with Bob. Buy a Martin instead. NFI.


Of course, this ad kind of reinforces Bob Taylor's point...
How many tenor guitar buyers looking to spend $1,300 would choose a new tenor guitar (from any producer) over this one?
Very few methinks. (NFI)

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## Charles E.

Those old Martins are hard to beat.

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## Seonachan

> Having seen unknown numbers of tenor banjos converted to 5-string by unbolting one neck and bolting on another, it seems a strange twist of fate that a guitar might be converted _to_ tenor by bolting on another neck...
> I suppose it could be done, as long as the scale length stays the same. there may be a "scar" on the body to the sides of the narrower neck where it bolts on, and there would be two extra bridge pin holes in the bridge (assuming a pin bridge) and bridge plate. That would work fine, but a new bridge would complete the transition.


I have a hybrid tenor like this - a hollow electric body with a tenor banjo neck bolted on. The gap was filled in, with what I don't know.

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## mrmando

Let's go bark up the Collings tree ... they seem a little more willing to take some risks over there.

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## JeffD

> Jimmy Dodd plays an ordinary Regal tenor in some other Mickey Mouse Club clips. .


Would this be the Regal?

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## mrmando

That be the one. That is to say, it certainly looks like a Regal headstock decal to me. 

Cubby doesn't look too happy...

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## delsbrother

> Let's go bark up the Collings tree ... they seem a little more willing to take some risks over there.


Would seem like a good fit, what with the Texas Fiddle backup tradition of tenor guitar playing. Actually, come to think of it, I'd MUCH rather fantasize about a Collings O-18T vs. a tenor Taylor.

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## Steve L

I think every manufacturer you point to that's currently producing tenors is another reason Taylor thinks he should not.

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## JeffD

For Taylor its not a risk, its a loss leader pet project, or total charity. 

As for Collings: I recently read this in a review:

"Luthier Bill Collings began building guitars in the 1970s, and today, his Austin, Texas - based Collings Guitars is known all over the world for making high quality instruments. Although the company now has a large and diverse catalog that includes electric guitars, mandolins, and ukuleles, most player thik forst of the company's core line of falttop guitars."

The point is that mandolins are niche instrument, relegated to the "although they also make" and the "diverse catalog". Tenor guitars are to mandolins, what mandolins are to guitars. I can't see tenors being made by any large guitar manufacturer until Madonna plays one at the Super Bowl, which will be the Super Bowl the Bills win.

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## PJ Doland

Didn't Breedlove stop making their tenor model because it wasn't selling?

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## multidon

> I can't see tenors being made by any large guitar manufacturer until Madonna plays one at the Super Bowl,


This is a good point. The music industry is subject to fads and crazes. Look at ukuleles. They were all but dead and very difficult to find in mainstream music stores (stores like Elderly never abandoned them, and they still had their hard core fans) UNTIL Train hit it big with "Hey Soul Sister" and all these teen agers wanted to know what that funny little guitar was. Turned out it was a baritone uke and then everybody wanted one. Go to a Guitar Center or Sam Ash now. I just cant believe how much display space they devote to every conceivable type of uke now. Soprano, concert, tenor, pineapples, baritones, cheap ones, expensive ones, even one that looks like a Les Paul guitar. Even a uke bass, for pete's sake! You were lucky to find one or two ten years ago. Maybe the same thing will happen to tenors someday. If it does we will have choices beyond our wildest dreams!  :Grin:

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## Markus

> I've seen Barry Mitterhoff playing one recently......with Hot Tuna.


Barry had one as well during that Bromberg/Jorma tour they did a couple years ago.

He played a lot of instruments incredibly well that show, did a great job of changing the character of different songs when in duo/trio setting.

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## JeffD

Barry Mitterhoff is pretty amazing.

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## MikeEdgerton

> I can't see tenors being made by any large guitar manufacturer until Madonna plays one at the Super Bowl...


And that certainly ties in with post #9 above.

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## Martin Jonas

> I checked out the deluxe edition of _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_ from the library recently, and in the bonus features there's a short B&W promo that includes a better look at Kirk Douglas' tenor guitar ... before he hands it off to the prop master. There's another feature about the music which includes a photo of what looks like the recording session for "Whale of a Tale," and the guitarist is playing a standard guitar. So the tenor was, in the end, just a prop.


Possibly so, but I've just come across a nice photo of Kirk Douglas taking tenor guitar lessons on a Harmony archtop, from teacher Dick Roberts (a former sideman of Hank Penny and Spade Cooley):



Even if this is a publicity photo, it's still a nice one.

Martin

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## Joe Mendel

One thing to remember as well, is that the Taylor factory has more in common with an auto assembly factory than it does with a one or two man luthier shop. It is an assembly plant as much as anything else, to make a small change like a wider fingerboard (or different bumper) is very expensive in a large factory & the cost of the changes has to be absorbed over many units. For Bob to decide to make tenors part of his line would be akin to GM adding a truck to it's van assembly plant in Wenztville, MO, which they are doing, at the cost of multi-million dollars. It might not cost Bob that much, but the investment would likely never pay off. Bob and his accountants have to figure what the ROI would be (and that costs money too) then decide if it is worth the risk. If someone calls me or any other one man shop, we can think it over and say yes or no, we would have to make our money for new design, forms & jigs, on that one instrument, and we could decide on the basis of whether we think it would be interesting, fun, or in some other way rewarding. If Bob just started making things he thought was cool, he would probably run the company into the ground quickly. Having said that, Bob could probably have his custom shop build anything they wanted as a one off, but the price would reflect the investment. 
I intend no knock on Taylor, they are an amazing company and have always treated me exceptionally well in the dealings I've had with them, but the reality is, it is a factory.

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## JeffD

> That be the one. That is to say, it certainly looks like a Regal headstock decal to me. 
> ...


I have a Regal Rex tenor. The decal is warn away, but the shape of the headstock is the same.

In fact somone is coming over this afternoon to see about maybe buying it. If she does, it will jump start my MAS budget Irecently emptied. No wait I had to ding the new tires budget on that purchase , so no, this will replenish that budget.  Have to keep myself honest.

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## multidon

> One thing to remember as well, is that the Taylor factory has more in common with an auto assembly factory than it does with a one or two man luthier shop. It is an assembly plant as much as anything else, to make a small change like a wider fingerboard (or different bumper) is very expensive in a large factory & the cost of the changes has to be absorbed over many units.


Good point and I certainly understand that the projected units sold have to justify the cost of retooling an "assembly line". But how does Taylor, or any other company for that matter, determine the potential market for a new product? Take for example the introduction of their 8 string baritone in 2010. The way it was described in their press releases, it sounds like Bob and his team just brainstormed ideas, sort of like "Wouldn't it be cool if we made a 9 string?" and such. Bob describes the 8 string baritone in his publicity blurbs as "a peanut butter meets chocolate kind of serendipity" (very close to an exact quote I believe). Now, did the Taylor company actually do market research and ask people if they would buy such a guitar before they started making it? Or did they take more of a "this is a cool idea, build it and they will come" philosophy? I could certainly be wrong, but it seems to me the market for a baritone guitar is a niche market to start with, let alone an 8 string version. Of course that guitar costs $3,200, but I would be really curious to find out how many units they actually sold. So seriously, do they do market research to figure out what kind of products people want? Or do they (not just Taylor, but instrument companies in general) just make what they want? Has anybody following this thread ever been asked by a manufacturer "What kind of new instruments would you like to see us make?". I know I've never been asked that question.

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## Ed Goist

I have been on both the Fender and the Gibson 'marketing list' for a long time (probably because I meticulously and accurately fill out all of my warranty/marketing cards).  :Smile:  As a result I have frequently received questionnaires, both paper and electronic (especially from Fender) asking me about products I would like to see developed.

Finally, I think the real reason as to why the major manufacturer don't produce a tenor guitar is excessive supply...
* Blueridge/Gold Tone/Aria and modest vintage brands have the market covered up to $600  
* Vintage Gibson/Martin/Regal/Kay/Harmony/Stella, etc. have the $600 to $2,000 market covered.
* Private, small shop luthiers have the +$2,000 market covered.

This leaves very little room.

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Charles E.

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## MikeEdgerton

> * Vintage Gibson/Martin/Regal/Kay/Harmony/Stella, etc. have the $600 to $2,000 market covered.


If you can give me the names of those guys spending $600.00 to $2000.00 for the Regal, Kay, Harmony and Stella tenors I'd appreciate it.  :Cool:

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## Ed Goist

I thought I should include the "Non-Gibson-Non-Martin" vintage brands to fill the gap up to $750 (which seems to be about the low-end for finding a tenor from one of the two big guys).

Granted, these haven't yet sold, but here are a couple of examples of +$600 overachievers:
* $800 Harmony
* $700 Kay Kraft 

Mike, I do see what you mean, these brands can't push themselves into the "Gibson/Martin" price range...Interesting.

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## Ed Goist

I thought I should include the "Non-Gibson-Non-Martin" vintage brands to fill the gap up to $750 (which seems to be about the low-end for finding a tenor from one of the two big guys).

Granted, these haven't yet sold, but here are a couple of examples of +$600 overachievers:
* $800 Harmony
* $700 Kay Kraft 

Mike, I do see what you mean, these brands can't push themselves into the "Gibson/Martin" price range...Interesting.

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## MikeEdgerton

What things are listed for doesn't show you where the market is, it's the completed sales. I think we had a Martin in the classifieds a few weeks back that was offered for less than that Harmony. The vast majority of Harmony, Kay, Harmony built Stellas and Regal tenors are basic entry level instruments that won't be in that price range and honestly shouldn't be.

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## Ed Goist

Thanks very much Mike. Great to know.
H. Weissenborn seems to be another vintage tenor guitar producer whose instruments are listed in the Gibson/Martin range. Are these premium tenors?
Also, are there other premium vintage tenors worth seeking out?

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## mrmando

There's a Weissenborn tenor that's been on the L.A. Craig's List for_ever_ ... You aren't going to find enough of those to draw any conclusions. Weissenborn made mostly Hawaiian-style slide guitars.

I'm with Mike: Harmony, Stella, Maybell, Kay, et al. should be bought and sold for $300 or less. Not premium brands.

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## MikeEdgerton

If anyone is really hankering for an 800.00 tenor *here's* a Gibson (NFI).

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## MikeEdgerton

Or *this* Gibson for 750.00 (again, NFI). There seem to be several decent Harmony tenors that are a bit overpriced but under $400.00 Buy It Now as well. Beyond that the sky appears to be the limit, there are some open auctions that will go off below 300, maybe 200. There doesn't appear to be a lack of tenor guitars available.

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## Ed Goist

...and two vintage tenor guitars currently being offered in the Cafe Classifieds (also, NFI):
* 1927 Martin 5-21T Tenor Guitar
* 1937 Gibson TG-50 

So, as we can see...Lots of supply. Hard to argue with Bob Taylor.

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## MikeEdgerton

*This* arched top Kalamazoo (made by Gibson) caught my eye this morning during one of my normal searches. A little more (NFI). Maybe a little over-priced but it looks like its in good condition.

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## draino

> Take for example the introduction of their 8 string baritone in 2010. The way it was described in their press releases, it sounds like Bob and his team just brainstormed ideas, sort of like "Wouldn't it be cool if we made a 9 string?" and such. Bob describes the 8 string baritone in his publicity blurbs as "a peanut butter meets chocolate kind of serendipity" (very close to an exact quote I believe). Now, did the Taylor company actually do market research and ask people if they would buy such a guitar before they started making it? Or did they take more of a "this is a cool idea, build it and they will come" philosophy? I could certainly be wrong, but it seems to me the market for a baritone guitar is a niche market to start with, let alone an 8 string version. Of course that guitar costs $3,200, but I would be really curious to find out how many units they actually sold.


The 8-string baritone was likely not built or brought to market for the purpose of profit, or to address needs of the market. It was likely initially built in the custom shop based on a "wouldn't it be neat?" idea, and then brought to market for "let's show everyone that we continue to innovate and do interesting stuff that the market didn't even know they might or might not want" purposes.  So even if they lose money in selling that instrument, it still has value from a marketing point of view for establishing Taylor as a forward-thinking guitar company.  Comparing the 8-string baritone, a new and novel instrument, to a tenor guitar -- one that has been around for a long time -- isn't very useful.  

I don't see how building a tenor guitar is going to help Taylor in terms of reputation or in terms of broadening its customer base, so the only other goal would be profit...and that would be really tough to acheive.

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## Bob Borzelleri

> John-
> Not second guessing at all. Taylor can make whatever they want. Bob is obviously successful and has great business sense. He built that company from literally nothing to what it is today. I do think the tenor market is bigger than "12". Otherwise, if the market is so tiny, why are Gold Tone, Blueridge, and Breedlove making them? I assume they are making money. Thank you Ed for posting the article in its entirety. One important thing I left out is that Bob left the door open just a crack for a special run of GS Mini tenors someday. Chances are low, but I played a GS Mini and for a small guitar they sound great! If they ever offer a tenor version for $499 I would be first in line.


+1 on the GS Mini tenor possibility.  If Taylor made one, it would join my GS Mini in a heartbeat.

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## Bernie Daniel

And of course as everyone knows Ozzie Nelson played a tenor guitar back up track on some of son Ricky's early 45 records!

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## Tenor Chick

Sadly, they won't be making ukuleles any time soon either...I asked.

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## Charles E.

If I ever find a second hand Taylor GS mini or Big Baby for a low price, I will convert it to a tenor. Just because.

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## FL Dawg

Kind of interesting to read this and I agree with Taylor. There are already loads of tenor guitars in the world, plenty enough for us crazy guys who use them. I'm surprised you don't see more women or kids playing them as a sing-along learning tool.

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Ed Goist

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## Galimando

I'm loving this conversation, but was anyone besides me put off by the really long 24-1/16" scale length of the Breedlove tenor?  (I saw the Breedloves mentioned upthread, I thought I'd bring it up again.)

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## Ted Eschliman

My favorite kind of tenor playing:

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russintexas

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## BradKlein

What a great video, Ted.  And a sweet kitchen table performance.

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## Ed Goist

After spending several months playing the wonderful Blueridge BR-40T, I can tell you for sure that if I owned a guitar company I sure wouldn't try to enter the market knowing that there is an instrument with the Blueridge's quality out there for under $400...
Game over!

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## Charles E.

> My favorite kind of tenor playing:


That is awesome. Who is this guy?

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## Bruce D. Weber

Wow! I've wanted to build a few Tenors.  I think the above video just pushed me over the edge.  Thanks Ted!

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## lukmanohnz

This is precisely why I love the cafe forum so much.  Wowee zowee - phenomenal.  ** sigh **

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