# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  Emulating a bass guitar

## Huda

Hi all,

My band lacks a bassist, and I want to step in.

What effects would you use to emulate a bass guitar?

Here is my setup:

1. Acoustic mandolin stripped down to 4 strings
2. K&K floating bridge pickup (which also acts as a pre-amp)
3. Alesis GuitarFX multi-effect pedal
4. Ibanez Tone-Blaster amp

I did the obvious and set the multi-effect pedal to transpose the pitch down by two octaves. But what other effects should I add in to give my mandolin a funky bass sound?

Also, will this go against the rule that says, "Don't play a bass through a guitar amp"?

I am looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

Thanks,
Huda

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## jefflester

> Also, will this go against the rule that says, "Don't play a bass through a guitar amp"?


How about going against the rule "don't try to play bass on a mandolin"?  :Laughing:

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## Christian McKee

Huda, I think you've done most of what you can do with an acoustic mandolin.  If you had a midi-ready instrument, you could get closer.  In my experience playing electric mandolin through an octave effect, you can play notes as low as a bass player, but you'll never get that "funky bass sound."  There's a significant portion of that sound that has as much to do with the mass of the strings as anything.  That said, playing bass on the mandolin is fun, enjoy it!

Christian

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## foldedpath

Taboot's suggestion of a Midi pickup would be the best way to get that sound, although you'll need a synth or sampler module with a good bass patch. With your current rig, maybe try adding some compression? And be careful about volume levels with that guitar amp. You might get by with running it at low to medium volume, but high volume might blow the speakers. Do you have a PA system you can run the signal through instead?

If you want to stay with a small-bodied instrument for this, how about getting an Ashbory bass:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashbory_bass

They're fairly inexpensive, they sound good (if you can get used to the feel of the rubber strings), and the different intervals in the tuning might help you think more like a bass player. Since the Ashbory has a short scale, I suppose you could even tune it in 5ths like a mandolin if you wanted to. You'll still want an amp that can handle those low frequencies.

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## mandroid

Roland's guitar synths have a bass  patch ,  but the cost will be  up a ways ,.,

an electric mando ..  see the Mann retro Conversion done in the past.

maybe a lesser cost instrument will do. 
[wonder if Bluestar can build and  use the installed GK like fender's Roland ready 'Strats' used]

a Roland GK pickup, and a module  is about $600, 

and  a bass  or subwoofer amp.

I like RMC's pickups that are in - the- bridge pieces, 

and their 13 pin polydrive2  box. but there is installation charges .. 


Roland AC 60 plus a KCW-1 sub  moves the air around nicely.

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## mandolirius

Mandolin used as a bass?    :Disbelief: 

Why not just get a bass guitar? They're not terribly expensive. Better yet, find a bassist.

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## SternART

Or maybe an electric mandocello.......Mike Marshall plays really cool bass lines on his!  (acoustic of course) :Disbelief:

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## igowing

I run my 5 string mando through an MXR blue box to play a weird technoish distorted bassline while my band's bass player takes a trombone solo in one of our songs.  You might try to get a unique bass sound with your mandolin rather than to emulate the sound of a bass guitar.

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## mando.player

I went the Ashbory route and it's worked out well.  I play it in a bluegrass context and pretty much ride the root/5th train following the chord progression.  If you can find a flatpicking guitar book/resource that lists bass runs, you can spice things up a bit.

I ended up coming up with a system of using no open strings.  Then I just move the patterns around based on the capo position the guitar player is using.  It's effective, but not earth shattering.

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## violmando

That's what I was going to suggest--Ashbory basses are good for folks who are used to the shorter string lengths and as an upright AND electric bassist, I can honestly say they sound GREAT!  Those floor bass feet things aren't bad either, but I wouldn't do the mandolin as bass thing--ruins the whole sound, if I'm listening to a group.  A Ashbory bass TRULY sounds like an upright bass, which is why I love them for older jazz stuff rather than a newer elec. bass....a more authentic sound.  Not hard to play at all, except for getting used to the strange strings. And the aren't that expensive either nor hard to carry around! Fun little buggers!

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## Keith Erickson

> Or maybe an electric mandocello.......Mike Marshall plays really cool bass lines on his!  (acoustic of course)


I 2nd the mandocello recommendation...  :Coffee:

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## CLeRIK

I own a DigiTech Whammy-pedal, wich I use for my emando. I've been experimenting with the two octaves down setting, with the same purpose as you: to play bass on the mandolin.

First I tuned the mandolin down from GDAE to E B F# C#, to get the low E of the bass guitar. Then I used the two octaves down setting. It was very hard to get any attack when playing, the sound was pretty sloppy. I tried to run my overdrive pedal after the Whammy, and I liked it better. The clean sound gets dirtier ofcourse, which may not be what you desire, but there is more attack and bite to the sound. I guess it would be nice to add compression too, and running it through a bass amp, but I haven't tried that. Maybe some sort of auto wah may help with the attack too, to separate the tones, I like the DigiTech SynthWah (don't own it though) for some crazy sounds and people use it on bass.

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## Huda

Hi all,

Thank you for all of your input.

Your responses fall into two categories:

1. What a cool idea! Here is what I have tried...
2. What a loser! Go buy a bass guitar!

I acknowledge number 2, but to salve my wounded pride I will focus on number 1.  :Wink: 

I have experimented a little, and these options sound half-way decent:

1. Mando > Pickup > Compression >  Cabinet Simulator > Pitch Down 1 Ocatave

2. Mando > Pickup > Compression >  Cabinet Simulator > Acoustic Distortion > Pitch Down 1 Octave

3. Mando > Pickup > Compression >  Cabinet Simulator > Tube Clean > Pitch Down 1 Octave

Now I just have to learn to play like a bassist, and not a mandolinist!

Does anyone out there have any constructive criticism?

Thanks,
Huda

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## PhilGE

> Hi all,
> 
> Thank you for all of your input.
> 
> Your responses fall into two categories:
> 
> 1. What a cool idea! Here is what I have tried...
> 2. What a loser! Go buy a bass guitar!
> 
> ...


Sorry I'm late to this discussion.

I'd encourage you to "set aside the pride" and take a good look at an Ashbory Bass. I've heard one played regularly and the sound is very good. I've played around on one and enjoyed the experience. Then again, you'd probably feel more at home on a mandocello. Just think of the lows you could get if you pitched one of those down!

Sounds like you're having fun, regardless.  :Smile: 
Phil

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## steve V. johnson

I like your idea and it seems that you've found a pretty good path.  I thought that originally, the exercise was to use what you have without adding components...

It's interesting that you've changed from two octaves down to just one.   Octave shifters can get 
confused and flaky when asked to go too far.   

In my experiences with 'octavers' they've often restricted the range on the fretboard.  I'm sure you'll be able to discover where the 'edges' are, where not to go to those notes on the mando neck that scare the downstream processing into weirdness.

I think that I would have started with a different order in the signal chain (maybe you've tried this already...) I'd have the octave shift first, then applied any necessary EQ, then compression, then any distortion characteristics, then the cabinet simulation.   

Well done so far, and good luck chasing the rest of the tone.

stv

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## JMUSIC

Get yourself one of these:
http://www.largesound.com/
street price is $299 and they sound like an upright. Silicone strings so you can't bend but you can slide. Easy learning curve. We have a blast with ours.  John

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## JMUSIC

Get yourself one of these:
http://www.largesound.com/
street price is $299 and they sound like an upright. Silicone strings so you can't bend but you can slide. Easy learning curve. We have a blast with ours. They are made by Fender now.  John

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## crazymandolinist

> Also, will this go against the rule that says, "Don't play a bass through a guitar amp?


NOT SO! I play my bass through two different guitar amps and it works fabulously! On the EQ, just turn the mids and highs down all the way and the bass all the way up. Guitar distortion doesn't work that well on a bass though.

Mandolins have the ability to replace drummers, and basses have the ability to replace rythm guitars somewhat, but with the mando being two whole octaves higher it doesn't seem like this would really work. BOSS makes an octave pedal, maybe if you had an octave mando you could use that.....

If nothing else works, bass is a very easy instrument to learn, and a few bands don't even use bass and they get good results (ala la White Stripes). Basses aren't too expensive either, a hofner icon beatle bass can be found for less than $300 pretty easy, and some squiers can be found for less than $200.

Good luck

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## allenhopkins

Let me second (or third, or fourth) the Ashbory bass suggestions.  It really is like playing a bass mandolin.  The drawback is that it's tuned in fourths rather than fifths, so you can't play the same patterns you would on a "processed" mandolin.

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## Jean Fugal

>>>Now I just have to learn to play like a bassist, and not a mandolinist!
>>>Does anyone out there have any constructive criticism?
>>>Thanks,

The secret is KISS ....... (keep it simple stupid)  There is nothing wrong with 1,5,1,5 all night long.
Play what needs to be played and don't hot dog it. You are the time keeper not the lead. In my opinion the biggest problem with E Basses it the player plays too many notes just because he can.

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## mandolirius

2. What a loser! Go buy a bass guitar!

Not at all! I did suggest buying a bass. As for being a loser for wanting to do it on the mandolin, I don't think so. In fact, I'm pretty impressed with the lengths some posters have gone to create bass-like effects with mandos. I was recommending what seemed to me to be the easier route. 

I was going to suggest the Ashbory too, but I had a blankout and couldn't remember the name. In fact, now that I think about it and considering that electric bass was my first instrument, I'm having a case a BAS :-)  I might just have to pick up one of those little suckers.

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## John McGann

A few years ago, I played in Jimmy Ryan's Mandomania- lots of mandos and a drummer. One of the mando players played bass on an emando through an octave divider (maybe a Boss pedal)- it worked great and a good time was had by all...

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## Lee

What would happen if you played through two back-to-back octave pedals, each set for one octave?  Would that sound less sloppy?

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## mando.player

If the pedal route is the way you are going Electo_Harmonix has a few that might suit the bill.  Their POG pedals (poly octave generator) seem to be pretty nice.

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## Huda

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am surprised that this thread has lasted this long!

I have thought about getting an Ashbory, but I am concerned about the following:

1. I have read that the Ashbory is a "one trick pony".

2. I am in love with fifths-tuning and I don't want to change to fourths-tuning unless I absolutely have to. I know that people "say" that the Ashbory can be tuned in fifths. However, I haven't seen any reviews from people who actually play the Ashbory in fifths-tuning.

3. It looks kind of silly.

Can you dispel my concerns?

Thanks,
Huda

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## foldedpath

> 1. I have read that the Ashbory is a "one trick pony".


That's true I suppose, but it's a good tone for accompanying a wide range of music styles, especially traditional acoustic genres. Nothing too fancy required for that, and there's something to be said for bass players sticking to the role of a one trick pony.  :Wink:  What it can't do are things you mostly hear in more aggressive rock and pop styles, like string popping, ultra-deep 5-string or 6-string tunings, etc. But do you really need that? 




> 2. I am in love with fifths-tuning and I don't want to change to fourths-tuning unless I absolutely have to. I know that people "say" that the Ashbory can be tuned in fifths. However, I haven't seen any reviews from people who actually play the Ashbory in fifths-tuning.


Yeah, I'd want to hear from someone's actual experience before I'd believe it works as well in 5ths, since there is only one gauge of string set available. I can understand being in love with 5ths tuning coming from mandolin playing, but bass doesn't play melody. A 4ths tuning works really well for the basic root - 5th interval. If you learn to play bass in 4ths and get out of your mandolin comfort zone, it might might force you to play more like a bass and less like a melody instrument, which might be a good thing. 




> 3. It looks kind of silly.


It does, but it will also look a little silly if you stick with the original idea of using a mandolin and processing. I wish they had an alternative body shape like a mini P-bass or something. But it is what it is. You can either embrace the weirdness and make it part of your performance style, or go a different route with a full-size electric bass or standup electric for a more conventional stage appearance.

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## allenhopkins

> Hi all,
> 
> 1. I have read that the Ashbory is a "one trick pony".
> 
> *Not sure what that means; if the one trick is playing bass guitar, then isn't that what you want?  I don't use effects, so I don't know if the Ashbory works well with them or not -- whether you can get it to sound like a Fender P-Bass or a Rickenbacker or whatever.  Mine sounds reminiscent of an acoustic bass, more boomy than cutting.*
> 
> 2. I am in love with fifths-tuning and I don't want to change to fourths-tuning unless I absolutely have to. I know that people "say" that the Ashbory can be tuned in fifths. However, I haven't seen any reviews from people who actually play the Ashbory in fifths-tuning.
> 
> *Never tried mine in fifths tuning, so can't tell you.  I would say that the silicone/rubber strings can be a bit prone to breakage if over-stretched, and they're fairly pricey.  I broke a G string, and couldn't get a single-string replacement; finally complained to Fender, which is now the company selling Ashbories under the D'Armond nameplate, and they graciously sent me one that the service rep "found in his desk" or so he said.  So if you're thinking GDAE instead of EADG, you'd better think twice.*
> ...


..

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## CES

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 3. It looks kind of silly.
> 
> Huda


Can't get past the mental image of someone squatting with their mandolin standing up on the floor (a la upright bass style) thumping away on that little monster... :Laughing:

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## Patrick Killeen

> 1. I have read that the Ashbory is a "one trick pony".


The same could be said about upright bass or just about any acoustic instrument.  This is an issue if you are (say) playing with electric guitars and want to be able to dratically change your instrument's timbre like they do, but if you're playing with acoustic or electroacoustic instruments then one trick is all you need.




> 2. I am in love with fifths-tuning and I don't want to change to fourths-tuning unless I absolutely have to. I know that people "say" that the Ashbory can be tuned in fifths. However, I haven't seen any reviews from people who actually play the Ashbory in fifths-tuning.


I felt that way before getting my Ashbory and went as far as finding a source for alternative gauges of silocon rubber cord so that I could try to tune it in fifths.  However when I got my Ashbory I decided to try it in 4ths for a while and found that it works well like that so I'll be sticking with 4ths. 

The big change for me in learning bass has been learning to play bass lines instead of chords or melodies.   I've never felt like I've changed tuning because I've been learning a different approach to playing anyway.




> 3. It looks kind of silly.


You'll get used to it, and if you don't it's so small you can easily hide behind the guitar player.

Patrick

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## mando.player

4ths really does work well for riding the 1/5 train.  I pulled most of my bass runs out of a Steve Kaufman flatpicking guitar book.  There was a section that gave two bar runs based on the starting and ending chord.

I'll play my ashbory once and awhile with my father in-law's BG band.  The only comments I get are:
- What is that?
- Neat and/or Cool!

Since no one is saying my playing sounds horrible I just keep my hands covered in talc and keep playing.

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## David Miller

Just adding my 2 cents into this discussion:
While I am mainly a mandolinist these days, I have been (and still am at times) a bass player. My main bass is a 6 string electric. I had never heard of the Ashbory until I came across this thread a few weeks ago. After some quick research, I went out and ordered one, which arrived last week. I am IN LOVE! I play in an acoustic duo (mandolin / guitar) and while a bass part would be useful on some of our music, I always resisted dragging it out due to size, etc. Now, with the Ashbory, that will all change. For under $300 bucks, I cant imagine finding a more useful musical instrument to fill the low frequency gap. Right now I run it straight into a Bose PAS with no effects, and it sounds great! 
As far as the tuning in fifths, It is possible in theory. The issue is the top G string, which is already right at its maximum tension, so going to, say ADGC (top down) might be a problem. However, you could drop that a whole step to GCFBb might work. The strings have a lot of leeway on the low side, thought the Bb might be a bit sloppy. I used my G as a D in an emergency fix the other day, and it worked fine.
I know the desire to keep it simple by using one axe to do both, but having gone the route of adding the Ashbory, I can sure see the benefits. 
I am currently contemplating running the Ashbory through a loop pedal, so I could run a bass part the first time through a song, trigger the loop, then pick up the mando for the rest of the song...

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## Jim MacDaniel

I was going to offer another vote for the Ashbory -- but based upon Mr. McGann's first-hand experience, maybe you can get more utility out of an emando.

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## bonny

I'd like to toss an idea into the pot. 
A regular topic amongst electric bassists is "how to make an electric bass guitar sound like an acoustic upright?" Being a long time bassist on both upright and electric I've gotten lots of comments over the years on how much my electric playing sounds like an upright. Maybe some folks have been happy buying gear that might help one instrument emulate another but I never really thought about doing that or even consciously tried....and lets face it, soloed in the mix and A/B'ed with an upright an electric bass sounds waaaaaay different no matter what you process it through. But because the upright was my first love and what I sweated blood to learn I _think_ like an upright player and _articulate_ like an upright player even on the little bass. Pulling off covering the bass parts with a mandolin is going to be a whole heck of a lot tougher but maybe this gives some food for thought.....(and an octave pedal is not likely to hurt.) :Wink:

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## Huda

Hi all,

After much thought, I realized that I really needed an instrument with a longer  scale length. The octave pedal brought the tone down, but it didn't sound as good as long, heavy strings naturally vibrating with long wavelengths and low frequencies.

So what did I do?

I built an electric upright washtub bass. Total cost: $15.

It was easy and fun to build. For details, see Dennis Havlena and Tubtonia.

The scale length is 30 inches (which is a relatively short scale length for a bass). Hopefully, my little mandolin fingers can handle it.

I had to tune it in fourths (EADG from the bottom). Otherwise, the strings would break. However, I am banking on foldedpath's statement:




> I can understand being in love with 5ths tuning coming from mandolin playing, but bass doesn't play melody. A 4ths tuning works really well for the basic root - 5th interval. If you learn to play bass in 4ths and get out of your mandolin comfort zone, it might might force you to play more like a bass and less like a melody instrument, which might be a good thing.


It sounds great. Now I just have to learn to play it!

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## mandolirius

<3. It looks kind of silly.

Huda>

Just tell people it's a bass mandolin.

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## fred d

:Popcorn:   I"m a little late in this one and Yes I also play a Asbury Bass and I tuned it just like my Mandolin.   1 string (at the floor) Is a E not a tight G 2, A 3,D,an 4, g this is at lot looser than  bass EADG most if the time the tight G is the one that breaks I use baby podder on the strings (smells good) a:nd play as if any Mandolin not Bass clef.  The other day I was in the den playing walking bass runs and some other bass stuff and my wife came in to see what I had on the CD player with my bad health The weight and size really helps and I have played it thru a Wa Wa pedal ( as I also have my mandolin ) and with echo I sometimes play Bluegrass and now I"m studing Blues old southern slow Blues Best of luck and pkease let us know what you dicide and mayby a U tube copy thanks fred

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## Huda

OK, I'm back.

I tried to play in fourths. I really tried. But after playing in fifths, I just couldn't go back.

There is something magical and intuitive about fifths playing.

Bottom line: I retuned my washtub bass to fifths: CGDA (from the bottom).

So now I have an electric upright washtub mandobass!

For pictures, see my website: Yarkon

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## man dough nollij

Sorry if I'm recovering old ground from this old thread, but why not make an electric mando-bass? 

From what I understand, the main problem with the MB was that it just didn't put out any volume. That surely wouldn't be a problem with amplification. 

 :Chicken:  :Confused:  :Chicken:

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## crazymandolinist

After finding that this thread was going on I was about to ask if he wanted me to build him a solid body mandobass. But I'm glad you found a much cheaper solution. Hooray for inginuity!

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## mandroid

After wearing a P bass for just a couple songs, I wanted a peg out the bottom to hold it up.

there are already solid body stand-up style electric basses

don't know if they offer a second peg  to support them at an angle like fretted mando Bass offered.. 

tweaking a  guitar bass with a peg to support it would be a worthy project..

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## crazymandolinist

Yeah, but then the Fender Bass SWAT team would nab ya for sure!  :Cool: 

That would be like trying to use a mando as a bass. Now where have I heard of that being done?.......

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## allenhopkins

> Sorry if I'm recovering old ground from this old thread, but why not make an electric mando-bass?  From what I understand, the main problem with the MB was that it just didn't put out any volume. That surely wouldn't be a problem with amplification.


Wouldn't solve the 5ths/4ths controversy, though; mando-basses were tuned like "regular" basses, in 4ths, EADG.  Of course, that's not mandatory, and an electric mando-bass tuned in 5ths could definitely be made.

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## crazymandolinist

> Wouldn't solve the 5ths/4ths controversy, though; mando-basses were tuned like "regular" basses, in 4ths, EADG.  Of course, that's not mandatory, and an electric mando-bass tuned in 5ths could definitely be made.


Can you say "short scale"?  :Wink:

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## eadg145

> After wearing a P bass for just a couple songs, I wanted a peg out the bottom to hold it up.
> there are already solid body stand-up style electric basses
> don't know if they offer a second peg to support them at an angle like fretted mando Bass offered..
> tweaking a guitar bass with a peg to support it would be a worthy project..


  I will never forgive the unknown first owner of my wonderful fretless P-bass who drilled a hole in the end of the instrument so he could stick a broomstick in it and try to play it like an upright.   :Disbelief:   Oh, the HORROR!  I suppose as a result I got a very attractive deal on an otherwise pristine instrument, but that hole just haunts me.  Some day I will fill it with something wonderful and attractive.

  It's my own opinion, of course, but if you want an upright bass, get an upright bass.  If not get a nice W I D E strap and enjoy your P-bass.

cheers,

David

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## Daniel Nestlerode

David,
Gadzooks!  Is a PBass thick enough to support a broom stick?  The HORROR indeed!
Thanks for the giggle.  :Smile: 

Daniel

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## PT66

I know this thread is emando but I built an acoustic mandolin 2 octave below a regular mandolin with a 30" scale. I also saw a thread about tuning a gold tone banjo cello down to the same tuning. I would tink the same could be done with a short scale (like hofner) electric bass.

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