# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  RIP Pete Seeger

## mrmando

_Fretboard Journal_ is reporting that Pete Seeger has passed away. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/29/ar...t-94.html?_r=0

Pete might have been my first musical hero. I can't tell you how many times my sister and I listened to the _Children's Concert at Town Hall_ LP as kids. 

Thirty years later, when I had my own kid, naturally I bought him the same recording on CD. And it turned out there were many more levels to some of the songs, and to Pete himself, that I didn't fully appreciate as an innocent tyke. 

"Little Birdie," for example, is not just a happy-sounding tune about a bird. It is an exquisite yet simple statement of grief.

Little birdie, little birdie
Come sing to me a song 
For I've a short while to be here 
And a long time to be gone.

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catmandu2, 

CedarSlayer, 

JEStanek, 

Jim

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## Dagger Gordon

RIP.  A true inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=JVnHHaB-5oc

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## Bertram Henze

He was an ambassador of American Folk, conquering the world, armed with nothing but a long-scale banjo. His blue book was a starting point for many of my generation.

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## Pete Jenner

A great man who inspired generations around the world. Pete's songs started many people including me on a musical path. He will be sadly missed by hundreds of millions.

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albeham, 

Eldon Dennis, 

lorrainehornig, 

Petrus

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## Ian Rossiter

An Icon,
Thanks Pete.

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## journeybear

Sad news, indeed. One of the all-time greats and one of my all-time heroes. The first concert I ever went to was The Weavers, may or not have been at Carnegie Hall ( I was 7 or 8). One of my favorite musical encounters was an after-show parking lot impromptu performance by him at Clearwater several years back, as he and Country Joe waited for Toshi. (See below) His Rainbow Warrior TV show was a brief but brilliant contribution to folk music for the masses. A lot of those are up on youtube.

This would happen the night I finally got around to seeing "Inside Llewyn Davis." The Sixties folk music scene is surely fading away, even though it will always live in the hearts of so many. Thanks to Pete for all he did, and beyond the music scene as well.


Here's a piece I wrote to start a thread for his 90th birthday. There are plenty more clips from Rainbow Quest there and some more good reading.

+ x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x + x +

Pete Seeger, folk music's grand old man and worldwide ambassador, turns 90 today. Few have done more for acoustic music than this man, not only by playing it, but by his example of activism, both politically and musically. He has ruffled a few feathers in the process, which got him blacklisted twice for an unconsionably long time, but he was steadfast in his convictions, armed with the courage that comes from knowing he was right. When the second blacklist was lifted, in the mid-60s, he got a folk music show for about a year on local TV in New York, and clips from some of these broadcasts have turned up on youtube. They are now like a time capsule, and it is amazing to see some of these musicians in their heyday, including one of my personal favorites, Patrick Sky. Video of some of them just doesn't exist elsewhere. I'm very grateful that a musicologist was allowed to have a TV show at one point in broadcasting history.

His instruments are the banjo and guitar, but he has worked with many a mandolinist, and inspired many more. He has also written some important songs: "Turn! Turn! Turn!" "Where Have All The Flowers Gone," "Big Muddy," "Guantanamera." But just from his example of standing up for what he believed was right - standing up straight and tall too, with his head held high - mostly in human rights and the peace movement, he helped inspire thousands upon thousands, perhaps millions, to work toward making this world a better place in which to live, love, and yes, enjoy music.

Several years ago at the Clearwater Folk Festival I bumped into Pete Seeger after his set as he was walking with Country Joe McDonald to their car, and he welcomed me to walk and talk with them. While they were waiting for Toshi, Pete's wife, I got to talking with him about a wide range of subjects, including his vanishing singing voice, by this time reduced to a shout with some variation in pitch. I jokingly suggested he go into rap music. He unpacked his banjo and did what he called a rap - mostly it was just him playing banjo while he spoke verses someone had written about the foibles of the English language. I commented that reminded me of George Carlin's work. He didn't know who he was.  Too far from his frame of reference, I guess. But his willingness to share that bit of his gift with me, a total stranger, was a thrill I'll never forget.

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Even though I had been half expecting it after his wife's passing last year, it still came as a shock. We have lost one of the true giants in American music. RIP Pete, and thanks indeed.

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## almeriastrings

Yes... just saw that on the news here. A true pioneer and immensely influential.

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G7MOF

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## Ivan Kelsall

Truly a great man & an inspiration indeed. I did own & use Pete's 'handwritten' banjo tutor when i began trying to play banjo as i'm sure 1,000's of aspiring young players did back then. I was fortunate enough to see him when he visited the UK back in the '60's at the height of the Folk music boom. As with all great musicians,both Pete his legacy will never be forgotten,
                                                                                                                                              Ivan

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## Dave Hanson

What does ' Vale ' refer to ?

Pete was one of my all time folk heroes.

Dave H

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## Pete Jenner

Dave, 'Vale' is used commonly when someone dies to express farewell from this earthly life or this 'vale of tears'. I believe it is Latin for farewell. Pronounced Vah-lay or sometimes Wah-lay.

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## trevor

Hi Dave, I wondered too Wiki says its Latin for farewell.

A great loss.

Edit: Thanks Pete, you beat me to it, I haven't heard it used in the UK.

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## AlanN

Pete was one of the guys that even our parents liked. And everyone knew his songs. His Rainbow series was great, one episode featured a young Frank Wakefield and John Herald. The Lost & Found recorded Where Have All The Flowers Gone, very nicely.

I saw him one time, at the Clearwater festival in the 80's. RIP, Pete Seeger.

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## lorrainehornig

This was sad news, indeed. Pete's life was a life well lived!

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## Elliot Luber

New York Times obituary.
Champion of folk music and social change

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Pete Jenner

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## Fretbear

Let 'er RIP son;

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TonyP

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## Bertram Henze

> Hi Dave, I wondered too Wiki says its Latin for farewell.


Vocative of _valere_ = to have a value, to be healthy, to be strong

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## ald

I borrowed his folk guitar tutor and vinyl recording from the local library when I was about 14 and learned the claw hammer technique. Where have all the flowers gone was an early tune I learned to play. They used to play Little boxes on the radio very often when I was a youngster. We shall overcome, Guantanamero... I had quite forgotten how many tunes he is associated with. Good old Pete.

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## Wolfmanbob

One of my early inspirations as well. Met him several times, took time to speak with me, a sweet guy. Really a very significant life!

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lorrainehornig

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## Toni Schula

Thanks Pete, we will miss you.

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## Pete Jenner

One of my favourite Pete Seeger youtube videos.

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lorrainehornig

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## Folkmusician.com

Pete Seeger was a major influence for me and I believe that he did help shape who I am. 

I know your clothes are torn and ragged
And your hair is turning gray
Lift your head and smile at trouble
You'll find peace and rest some day

So long Pete

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lorrainehornig, 

Mike Arakelian, 

Pete Jenner, 

Steve Zawacki

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## Bertram Henze

I somehow figured him playing with Arlo Guthrie - it'd be exactly like him eating at Alice's Restaurant (or sitting with Group W)  :Cool:

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## Scott Tichenor

Sad day.

I'm merging the three existing threads on this. Seems it's best if it's all expressed in one location so hope the folks that started don't mind.

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lorrainehornig

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## Pete Jenner

Not at all Scott. It seems the sensible thing to do.

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## PJ Doland

He was a great songwriter.

_<political content, not appropriate for this discussion nor this forum and will not be tolerated further.>_

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## MikeEdgerton

Thanks Scott, I was editing as you were editing.

RIP Mr. Seeger.

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## Jim Garber

Pete lived about 20 minutes from me. I saw him quite a few times at the Great Hudson River Revival and local concerts. My wife and I played with him at a local concert a few years ago along with John Cohen who also lives up here. Pete was one of my true heroes and a man with true integrity who always stood by what he believed. He will be missed by many.

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Loretta Callahan, 

Pete Jenner

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## Shelagh Moore

An inspiration. Rest in Peace Pete.

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## JEStanek

From Arlo Guthrie's Facebook Page


> I usually do a little meditation and prayer every night before I go to sleep - Just part of the routine. Last night, I decided to go visit Pete Seeger for a while, just to spend a little time together, it was around 9 PM. So I was sitting in my home in Florida, having a lovely chat with Pete, who was in a hospital in New York City. That's the great thing about thoughts and prayers- Y...ou can go or be anywhere. 
> 
> I simply wanted him to know that I loved him dearly, like a father in some ways, a mentor in others and just as a dear friend a lot of the time. I'd grown up that way - loving the Seegers - Pete & Toshi and all their family. 
> 
> I let him know I was having trouble writing his obituary (as I'd been asked) but it seemed just so silly and I couldn't think of anything that didn't sound trite or plain stupid. "They'll say something appropriate in the news," we agreed. We laughed, we talked, and I took my leave about 9:30 last night. 
> 
> "Arlo" he said, sounding just like the man I've known all of my life, "I guess I'll see ya later." I've always loved the rising and falling inflections in his voice. "Pete," I said. "I guess we will."
> 
> I turned off the light and closed my eyes and fell asleep until very early this morning, about 3 AM when the texts and phone calls started coming in from friends telling me Pete had passed away. 
> ...

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Bertram Henze, 

farmerjones, 

Jim, 

Loretta Callahan, 

Pete Jenner, 

TonyP

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## Richard J

And let's not forget Pete also knew how to play a mandolin:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_V5KjWy4No

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## Pete Jenner

Nice one.

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swain

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## AlanN

That is great.

He fusses with tuning
He's on an F-5
He plays Ragtime Annie the right way (IV-I-V-I at the end)
He does a bit of take-off
He gets a kind of chop going at the end
There's a false stop

All the things we all do.

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## Dan Cohen

I gasped and teared at the airport tv monitor.

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## Jim Garber

Nice tribute and remembrance on *Andy Revkin's blog*.

And from Arlo Guthrie:



> "Well, of course he passed away!" I'm telling everyone this morning. "But that doesn't mean he's gone."

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## Jesse Harmon

I heard him at a union hall during a presentation on Labor Union history when I was 18 years old and had no clue about the significance of the moment and the significance of the values Pete based his life on.  Rest in Peace.  My life is better for him and the people who thought like him.

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Loretta Callahan

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## Mike Scott

Well said by Arlo...........................Pete will be missed by all who enjoy folk music.  RIP!

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## Spruce

I only got to see Pete once, at Bumbershoot in Seattle about a dozen years ago...
I went in thinking I'd pay respect to someone I've always admired, and came away feeling as though I had been in the presence of one of the greatest humans who has ever lived, period...
RIP Pete...

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DougC

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## Dan Cole

First memories of Pete Seeger and having no idea who he was, were listening to the Dillard's Live Almost album when I was a kid and Mitch Jayne saying "Rodney bit Pete Seeger on the leg".

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## Pete Jenner

Pete, despite his age, is/was forever young.




Magic.


Here's the story behind the recording.

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Loretta Callahan, 

mtm

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## Nick Royal

Peter certainly was a part of my music life, starting at Oberlin College, where I first heard him.  He must have come there each of the years I was there too.  I have always loved the way, in a concert setting, he got us all singing. 

The other things that always impressed me about Pete was his musicianship...what he could do with an instrument; and the creativity of his song writing.

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## Tavy

One of those rare people who made the world seem a better place just because he was in it... not many of those left.

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## JeffD

> And let's not forget Pete also knew how to play a mandolin:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_V5KjWy4No


Both my favorite Seegers in the same room.

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## JeffD

Pete playing with Frank Wakefield. Pete's bum-ditty style against bluegrass banjo. Its great. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsjUzXDYEBc

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## Elliot Luber

Sadly, efforts to award him the Nobel Peace Prize never came to fruition during his lifetime.

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## Eddie Sheehy

It's the end of an era, RIP Pete.

"Where have all the flowers gone..."

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## Dave Cohen

Not only are there not many left like Pete; there never were many like him.  One of the highest in my pantheon of heroes.  I am feeling lost knowing that he has passed.

http://www.Cohenmando.com/

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DougC

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## vegas

He was always working toward a better world, always lifting our spirits with his music. There is no replacement. RIP

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## Austin Bob

RIP Pete. I never got to see him perform, but he was one of the great ones.

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## DougC

We shall all be a little more like him now.
At least I will.  I can't think of anyone more important than Pete.


I had to come back and tell about this interview;
"We Shall Overcome": Remembering Folk Icon, Activist Pete Seeger in *His Own Words and Songs*  2004

The video is on DemocracyNow.org , and I thought that the topic would be 'all about politics'.
 BUT (?!) it was the most remarkable accounting of his song writing and stories of folk singers, I have ever seen. (And I think I have seen dozens of interviews.)

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## Don Grieser

A real gem of a human being. RIP Pete and thanks for everything you did. A true inspiration.

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## allenhopkins

No more important person in my musical life.  Last time I saw him was 24 years ago, my 25th Harvard reunion, Pete's 50th.  He was walking across the Yard with his banjo, on the way to give a children's concert for the grandkids of his classmates.

Joe Stead, English folkie, e-mailed out a little personal bio/essay on Pete Seeger, mentioning how unhappy he was at Harvard, where he had to wash dishes in a boarding house to pay his way.  Supposedly just as he was leaving, to become an itinerant barn-painter and song-chaser, he spotted classmate John F. Kennedy, walking to class with his own private secretary following him.  Interesting how contemporaries, so far apart in background and affluence, could end up with political and social attitudes that were at least within hollering distance of each other.

_How To Play the Five-String Banjo_ still sits on my bookshelf, and my LP cabinets have many of his recordings -- the first being a ten-inch Folkways album called _Darling Corey._  He really influenced me, and the course of folk and social-comment music in America.  No one else like him, IMHO.

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Loretta Callahan

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## Capt. E

> I somehow figured him playing with Arlo Guthrie - it'd be exactly like him eating at Alice's Restaurant (or sitting with Group W)


Heard Arlo talking about Pete this morning on public radio. He was one of the first to receive the news of Pete's death at 3 this morning.  Arlo said he had been dreaming of Pete last night.

I saw him live only once: at a political/protest rally here in Austin. Songwriter and musician, yes, but he was WAY more than that. <Removed by Moderator. Posting Guidelines.>

Inscribed on the skin of Pete's Banjo:  "This Machine Surrounds Hate and Forces it to Surrender"

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## Randi Gormley

Like Jim, I'm in Seeger country out here and when we heard he was in the hospital a couple weeks ago, we started gathering anecdotes just in case ... here's a link to local coverage.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20140128/NEWS/301280025

Right after lunch today, the three semi-professional musicans in the office did an impromptu Seeger concert -- the banjo player also plays mandolin but only brought the five-string -- and we stood around and sang some of the old favorites. The bosses were kind and asked if I'd brought my mandolin to the office (I hadn't) and invited me to join in, but I said I'd rather sing. RIP Pete.

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## brunello97

I recall about ten years ago or so and we found ourselves wondering whether he had already passed. To my delight I was wrong and have enjoyed his music over the last decade even more for that. I grew to think he was maybe eternal.

I'll refer the words on the head of his banjo to any of the unfortunate few who choose this moment to cast aspersions on his memory and his lifelong work to make this a better world.  RIP Pedrito.

Mick

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## bones12

A singular man who lived through amazing times, he held fast to values that have benefited all of us.  RIP        Doug in Vermont

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## Cecily_Mandoliner

I am sad to hear of his passing.
Pete was an inspiration to me all my life.
As a little girl, I would play the Weavers records with my friends. We memorized the songs, and sang into the cheap Holiday-brand tape recorder. No, I didn't play an instrument, yet.
Many years later, I told my mother my hubby gave me a guitar for Christmas. She asked if I had any music to play, or was there any I wanted to play. I told her, you know, I would love to play those songs we listened to when I was little, the Weavers and Pete Seeger. So, for our late Christmas gathering, she gave me the Pete Seeger Songbook, and a fingerstyle Folk Songs book. This was my last Christmas with her. 
I find it an amazing coincidence that, this weekend, when I was playing my ukelele (got a new book that inspired me), I played and sang a whole bunch of Weavers songs. 
Tonight, I'll try some songs on my banjo, in honor of Mr. Seeger.

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## texmax

I grew up listening to Pete Seeger and the Weavers back in the mid-50's, and never stopped listening to him. His influence on me is one of the reasons I bought a mandolin back in 1969, and he was a role model for any of the activist tendencies I have. 

In about 1970, I had the pleasure of briefly chatting with him in when he had just finished a concert at the Episcopal church in Chicago where my father was the priest. Being familiar with the layout of the church with its hidden doorways, I followed him back to a room after the concert. He was clearly tired but very gracious and friendly as he gave me his autograph. When I told him I played mandolin, he said "Listen to my brother Mike, he's a good player and much better at it than I am." So Pete turned me on to Mike, another great influence on me. 

RIP Pete, you will be missed. Thanks for everything.

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## chuck3

> No more important person in my musical life.  Last time I saw him was 24 years ago, my 25th Harvard reunion, Pete's 50th.  He was walking across the Yard with his banjo, on the way to give a children's concert for the grandkids of his classmates.
> 
> Joe Stead, English folkie, e-mailed out a little personal bio/essay on Pete Seeger, mentioning how unhappy he was at Harvard, where he had to wash dishes in a boarding house to pay his way.  Supposedly just as he was leaving, to become an itinerant barn-painter and song-chaser, he spotted classmate John F. Kennedy, walking to class with his own private secretary following him.  Interesting how contemporaries, so far apart in background and affluence, could end up with political and social attitudes that were at least within hollering distance of each other.
> 
> _How To Play the Five-String Banjo_ still sits on my bookshelf, and my LP cabinets have many of his recordings -- the first being a ten-inch Folkways album called _Darling Corey._  He really influenced me, and the course of folk and social-comment music in America.  No one else like him, IMHO.


great post.  Another of Pete's accomplishments:  the Hudson River would be nowhere near as (relatively) clean as it is without all of Pete's efforts as an environmentalist, which he often mixed with music.

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allenhopkins

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## notneils

> Not only are there not many left like Pete; there never were many like him.  One of the highest in my pantheon of heroes.  I am feeling lost knowing that he has passed.
> 
> http://www.Cohenmando.com/


I hear you.  At 94, healthy to the end (he was chopping wood until 10 days ago, apparently), you can't say "too soon gone" or anything, but I'll admit i'm terribly saddened.  I thought he would just sort of always be here.  But the world is not smaller for his having left us, rather infinitely larger for the life he lived.  So long Pete, say hi to Abiyoyo for me!

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JEStanek

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## John Radcliffe

I quote him when I encourage people to sing along, "The only wrong way to sing is not to sing at all".

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MikeEdgerton

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## JEStanek

This is pretty interesting/cool/amazing.  The story of a player who perhaps got the last letter Pete sent to a fan.  Article from the Fretboard Journal.

Jamie

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vegas

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## Andy B

Pete's "American Favorite Ballads, Vol. 4" has been in my collection since my parents gave it to me in 1965.  He was one of those who put those old lonesome songs and banjo sounds in my head where they've been ever since.  I think he is rightfully considered one of the giants of American music for his work in preserving and popularizing so much wonderful old music that otherwise would be mouldering in an archive somewhere.  He probably did more than anyone else (with the possible exception of Earl Scruggs) to bring the five string banjo to a large audience.  And that just scratches the surface.  I saw him once at a show on the Newburgh waterfront in 1994.  A great man, and an American original.

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## mandroid

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/1/2...ring_folk_icon

 a unique knack to set-up the lyrics in advance, so the audience would sing it with him, again,
relatively where it goes in the song  tempo..

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## Laird

> Dave, 'Vale' is used commonly when someone dies to express farewell from this earthly life or this 'vale of tears'. I believe it is Latin for farewell. Pronounced Vah-lay or sometimes Wah-lay.


I thought it was an archaic form of "valley."

Yep. Merriam-Webster has its synonyms as "dale" or "valley." Comes from the Middle English, from Anglo-French val, from Latin valles, vallis.

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## Laird

Pete was my hero--and not primarily for musical reasons, though I sure appreciated all he did to create an opening for music of the people, by the people, and for the people.  I'll share the link to a good video on his life and impact:
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v22469156Z...Power+Of+Song(

Every morning, as I drive my son the slow eight miles on backroads to his preschool, he asks me for a story. I begin, and pretty soon he's adding details, and so I've learned to give up control over the narrative direction. Anyhow, yesterday the story was about Pete singing "I Had a Hammer" down at a SNCC rally in Alabama. At a climactic moment in the story, Superman arrived to defuse the threat of violence--which came as quite a surprise, but it opened up a chance to talk about how it's not only superheroes who can change the world.

If I have another son, his name will be Seeger.

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## mrmando

In Latin, _vale_ has two syllables and means goodbye. 

In English, _vale_ has one syllable and means valley. It's pronounced "ski resort."

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## allenhopkins

> ...In English, _vale_ has one syllable and means valley. It's pronounced "ski resort."


If you're referring to the one in CO, it's *Vail.*

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## RB250

The first mandolin song I ever played was Woody's Rag form Pete's "Goofing Off Suite" Album (I believe) back in the 60's.  I'll bet many people can say the same thing.  Pete got me interested in mando, banjo and guitar.  After listening to Pete and the Kingston Trio...I graduated to the NLCR's, old timey and then bluegrass.  I still listen to Pete and recently bought his American Ballads 5 CD compilation.  I had owned many of those records back in the 60's.  Pete, RIP

Doug, RB250

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## Pete Jenner

> I thought it was an archaic form of "valley."
> 
> Yep. Merriam-Webster has its synonyms as "dale" or "valley." Comes from the Middle English, from Anglo-French val, from Latin valles, vallis.



The Oxford English dictionary definition #2.

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## notneils

> The first mandolin song I ever played was Woody's Rag form Pete's "Goofing Off Suite" Album (I believe) back in the 60's.  I'll bet many people can say the same thing.  Pete got me interested in mando, banjo and guitar.  After listening to Pete and the Kingston Trio...I graduated to the NLCR's, old timey and then bluegrass.  I still listen to Pete and recently bought his American Ballads 5 CD compilation.  I had owned many of those records back in the 60's.  Pete, RIP
> 
> Doug, RB250


"Woody's Rag" was one of the first I learned on, too!  The whole "Goofing Off Suite" album is a toe-tingling piece of art that still sounds great today, IMHO.

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## journeybear

Very nice _In Memoriam_ on CBS Sunday Morning. It was actually in two parts, rare for this fine show, and befitting the immense respect for and accomplishments and influence of this great man. 

God speed, Pete. The Angel Band is getting real good.

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## Petrus

> Very nice _In Memoriam_ on CBS Sunday Morning. It was actually in two parts, rare for this fine show, and befitting the immense respect for and accomplishments and influence of this great man.


<Removed by Moderator. If you don't want too read the posting guidelines please simply have a little respect>

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## jmagill

> ...I grew to think he was maybe eternal.


He is.

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## brunello97

> <Removed by Moderator>.


<Removed by Moderator>
Great program.  Two parts aren't enough to 'cover' the contributions of this wonderful American.  Let the accolades roll on.

Mick

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## MSalisbury

> <Removed by Moderator>
> 
> Great program.  Two parts aren't enough to 'cover' the contributions of this wonderful American.  Let the accolades roll on.
> 
> Mick


<Removed by Moderator>  I will be the first to admit that the man knew how to play and made immeasurable contributions to music.  Like most who have posted here I grew up listening to his albums.  I'll miss his music.  RIP Mr. Seeger.

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## MikeEdgerton

Let me try and be nice about this. A man died that most of the folks posting admired in one way or another. If you didn't fine. If you did, fine. If you want to discuss his politics please feel free to find someplace else to it. It's a big old Internet with lots of wonderful places to have these discussions. It's not going to happen here.

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allenhopkins, 

Beanzy, 

jesserules, 

JEStanek, 

Scott Tichenor

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## Petrus

No need to try to be nice about anything, thanks. If I gave the impression that I don't respect or appreciate Mr. Seeger's contribution to American music, then I f failed to communicate properly and I apologize for that error. I do respect his music and especially his teaching and renewal of interest in the banjo via his book and videos over the years. OTOH, I did not realize that an oblique reference to *not* getting into a person's political affiliations constituted an invitation to discuss politics. In any case, please don't lock this thread as there is much more good to be said about this man and his music.

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Bertram Henze, 

journeybear, 

Laird

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## Petrus

Incidentally, I would have loved to have met him when he was alive and I think we could have had an interesting & stimulating conversation about political matters in an intellectually respectful spirit. I enjoy a lot of music (& literature) by creators who I may differ with politically/religiously to some degree or other, like we all do I guess.

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## JEStanek

I did the cover FB with Fine Art instead of the Photos Peiople Like You Normally Post thing today.  I was given Mary Cassatt and chose her drawing Young Girl With Banjo.  I photoshopped in Pete's banjo head.  I think it works.

Jamie

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## ollaimh

a great man and great ambassador and not sad for his p0assing. he lived a lif worth celebration. what could be better.

I am a scotts gael and part acadien folkie from nova scotia. sometimes the Toooo anglo nature of his genre got to me. but unlike many of his contemporaries, he understood ethnic issues and didn't just marginalize people whose backgrounds and culture was different, and he stood up to the Nazis on the senate house committee un un-American activites with brabvery and courage and beat them in the end.  he risked major jailo time and went all the way to the supreme court to win freedon from such oppression for everyone.

what more can you say?

he transcended his upper class background to be a hero to everyone and defender of liberty and compassion. nothing sad about his life or his death.  if only we all could die like that

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catmandu2

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## mrmando

> If you're referring to the one in CO, it's *Vail.*


I have a friend you should get to know ... his name is Hugh Moore.

(Puns are generally about pronunciation, not spelling.)

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## Petrus

> a great man and great ambassador and not sad for his p0assing. he lived a lif worth celebration. what could be better. <removed political stuff>


Quite right.

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## Pete Jenner

I was getting worried about this thread so I started singing this song....

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## Jim Roberts

Pete was and always will be an angel for peace...

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Laird

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## allenhopkins

> I have a friend you should get to know ... his name is Hugh Moore.  (Puns are generally about pronunciation, not spelling.)


_But_ -- if you put puns into print, then spelling becomes a consideration…  Saying "vale" is a ski resort only works on the auditory level; written out it just looks "wrong."

Like a good pun as much as the next guy, and more than most, I fear.  Wouldn't want to engage in excessive punditry here -- not to puntificate -- but have always enjoyed some homes_pun_ wordplay.

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## Pasha Alden

R I P Pete.  Love your melodic lyrics!

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## journeybear

I see that PBS is rebroadacasting the American Masters episode entitled "Pete Seeger: The Power of Song," at least in my area. Check your local listings. It's 1 1/2 hours, and excellent.

S22, E01  (First Aired: Feb. 27, 2008)
Artists from Bob Dylan to the Dixie Chicks relay stories of the folk singer/activist, often misunderstood because of his views on peace, civil rights and ecology.

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Loretta Callahan

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## allenhopkins

> ...the folk singer/activist, often *misunderstood* because of his views on peace, civil rights and ecology.


Wouldn't call him "misunderstood"; *disagreed with* would be more accurate.  Pete Seeger was pretty crystal-clear on his views, and there are many who disagreed with them.

I get a periodic e-newsletter from Joe Stead, an English folkie and someone who worked with Seeger when Seeger visited the UK.  Stead points out that Seeger really separated himself from the commercial aspects of his musical career.  When he did concerts, he wanted his agent to receive and deposit all the checks, rather than handle them himself.  And when he found what concert fees the agent had negotiated, he asked him to lower the amounts, because he thought sponsors shouldn't have to pay that much.

Despite my quibble with the term "misunderstood," I do highly recommend the _American Masters_ bio.  PBS includes an epilogue of Seeger singing _To My Old Brown Earth,_ shown here on YouTube:

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## Petrus

I just watched the American Masters episode on Seeger the other night. It was great. It covered a lot of ground and actually did not gloss over his political activities as much as I had expected it to. But it did focus on the music, as is appropriate.

As a politically oriented person myself, as well as an amateur music guy, I often struggle with the art vs. commerce question, as well as the question of separating aesthetics from ideology. As I evolve, though, I find myself moving away from ideological issues and more toward pure aesthetics, which I have seen many professional musicians do, as well, over the years.

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## Bertram Henze

> As I evolve, though, I find myself moving away from ideological issues and more toward pure aesthetics, which I have seen many professional musicians do, as well, over the years.


Since music is stronger than words, this seems to be the more promising approach. Or as Ian Anderson put it in _Thick as a Brick_: "I may make you feel but I can't make you think".

Pete Seeger was one of those musicians who look at the good things and let others see them, too, rather than constantly stating the bad things (aka heckling).

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## pbla4024

> Pete was and always will be an angel for peace...


No, he wasn't. In fact he was a very evil person indeed. But apparently it is forbidden to say so here.

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## Franc Homier Lieu

EDIT: better to say nothing at all.

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## MikeEdgerton

> No, he wasn't. In fact he was a very evil person indeed. But apparently it is forbidden to say so here.


Take the time to read the posting guidelines. The messages that were edited were edited because they contained political discussion, something we don't allow here. We also don't like trolling. You don't like him? Fine with me. Take a few minutes to read the posting guidelines so you actually understand what is happening here. Beyond that it's pretty easy to say whatever you want when you aren't using your real name. Generally folks don't give it too much credence.

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Pete Jenner

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## Mark Wilson

Watching Pete perform on TV, I always thought of one thing.  The guy was zealous for his music.

Pete's passion for music was larger than life. Larger than his political views - larger than his raw talent even. I think that's something worthy of admiration and emulation.  If you enjoy something and want to share it, be a little passionate about it.

RIP Pete Seeger.  An american icon!

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Pete Jenner

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## allenhopkins

> ...he was a very evil person indeed...


Interestingly, Seeger wouldn't say this about those who disagreed with him.  "Foolish," "misguided," or something like that, but "evil"?  No.

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## FLATROCK HILL

> Interestingly, Seeger wouldn't say this about those who disagreed with him.  "Foolish," "misguided," or something like that, but "evil"?  No.


That pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I share little if any common ground (politically) with this man, the dear departed subject of this thread. Although I might be his polar opposite, I do not in any way consider him "evil" and would never refer to him as such. 

I agree 100% with Mike Edgerton when he wrote:
_"Let me try and be nice about this. A man died that most of the folks posting admired in one way or another. If you didn't fine. If you did, fine. If you want to discuss his politics please feel free to find someplace else to it. It's a big old Internet with lots of wonderful places to have these discussions. It's not going to happen here."_ 

My disagreements in this area do not detract from my respect and admiration of the man as a musician, writer or performer. It should be noted though, that in this particular case, because these two aspects were such intertwined parts of Mr. Seeger's life, it is difficult to separate them completely. 

I appreciate the fact that this thread has been allowed to continue. I'm sure that on a personal level, Mr. Seeger was a warm, wonderful human being. It would be a shame to see 'his' thread unravel.

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allenhopkins, 

Laird

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## Dagger Gordon

[QUOTE=FLATROCK HILL;1254707

My disagreements in this area do not detract from my respect and admiration of the man as a musician, writer or performer. It should be noted though, that in this particular case, because these two aspects were such intertwined parts of Mr. Seeger's life, it is difficult to separate them completely [/QUOTE]

Well said. 

It is undeniable that Seeger was an icon of American folk music. It is also the case that his music and his politics were completely intertwined, so any discussion about him will inevitably touch on his politics.  
If you didn't like his politics, that's up to you. It is maybe a time to 'agree to disagree' but at least respect the integrity of the man. 
Personally I find it somewhat offensive that he would be described as a 'very evil man indeed', but I guess throughout his long and eventful life there were plenty of people who thought that.

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## pbla4024

> Take the time to read the posting guidelines. The messages that were edited were edited because they contained political discussion, something we don't allow here. We also don't like trolling. You don't like him? Fine with me. Take a few minutes to read the posting guidelines so you actually understand what is happening here. Beyond that it's pretty easy to say whatever you want when you aren't using your real name. Generally folks don't give it too much credence.


Was what I wrote extremely provocative? Yes. But problem is that he was first political activist, then musician. You cannot talk about Seeger without taking in account politics.
Ps.: I takes few seconds to find my name.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Was what I wrote extremely provocative? Yes. But problem is that he was first political activist, then musician. You cannot talk about Seeger without taking in account politics.
> Ps.: I takes few seconds to find my name.


One more time. Read the Posting Guidelines. You've pretty much admitted that your message was a troll, that doesn't go here either. We aren't going to discuss his politics. Find someplace else to have that discussion.

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## Laird

> No, he wasn't. In fact he was a very evil person indeed. But apparently it is forbidden to say so here.


That is perhaps the most frightening post I've ever read on here.

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Loretta Callahan

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## Laird

> Interestingly, Seeger wouldn't say this about those who disagreed with him.  "Foolish," "misguided," or something like that, but "evil"?  No.


That echoes something Joseph Campbell once said: while some traditions seem to encourage us to divide people into categories of good and evil, others divide them into the enlightened and the ignorant--that is, those who _understand_ and those who don't. The first dualism suggests something about the inherent nature of people, which would be hard to change; the second suggests that there's always the possibility of helping others understand--even, perhaps, coming to a fuller understanding ourselves. 

It requires an astonishing degree of certainty in one's own understanding of the world to call another person "evil"; it requires compassion and humility to recognize the limitations of our understanding, to allow room for other ways of understanding, and to work together toward a better understanding.

While I didn't know Pete, I know folks who knew him. I've read his biographies and sung his songs. Pete's message and his life were always about peace and justice. That's the bottom line. What political label people stuck on him doesn't matter. As another famous peacemaker once said, ""No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit."

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brunello97, 

Randolph

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## Petrus

Now that I think of it, I never did get around to asking what connection Nelson Mandela had with the mandolin. As a newbie I didn't want to be disrespectful by butting into a long thread (esp. an obit thread) out of the blue. Oh well, bit late now. (And now I'm wondering if asking this question is off-limits. Sometimes I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around here. I try to be respectful but usually end up getting kicked in the teeth for it.)

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## Petrus

> That is perhaps the most frightening post I've ever read on here.


Yeah, I can't decide if the newbie (only 5 posts?) is being sarcastic or what.  I can see his point, but that came off as a drive-by troll for sure.

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## brunello97

Perhaps, Laird, somewhere on the internet is another type of musical 'cafe' where the folks gather to heap praise on those singers who write and perform songs that celebrate racism, or sing happily about the exploitation of workers, or promote the pollution of the Hudson River, or advocate war as a solution to our problems.  

Maybe they even play the banjo.  Maybe some folks here would like to sing along.

Maybe there are guys like you or me who might write in to try and spoil their pleasure and cause headaches for moderators trying to keep the thread civil in its tone.

Mick

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Laird, 

Randolph

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## allenhopkins

There are a myriad of political blogs and websites, where one can excoriate the political and social attitudes of those with whom one disagrees.  Let's take the discussion of Seeger's politics there.  Here we're talking about his influence on American folk music, which was profound, long-lasting, and -- at least IMHO -- almost entirely positive.

At a gig tonight, I mentioned Seeger's death, then played three songs with which I associate him: _This Land Is Your Land, The Hammer Song,_ and _Goodnight Irene_ to wind up the program.  Afterwards a couple members of the audience -- the gig was for a Knights of Columbus Auxiliary pot-luck supper, and almost everyone was aged sixty or older -- came up and mentioned that they hadn't known much about Seeger, but had viewed the PBS _American Masters_ documentary, and came away admiring him.

"I heard he was a Communist," one of them said to me.  "Yes, he was for a while, but lots of people were drawn toward radicalism in the 1930's," I said.

"Well, he was a good man," she said.  "Yes, he was," I replied.  "I probably owe him as much as anyone, for getting started in folk music, and staying with it."

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