# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Pava Mandolins: Are they as good as people say they are?

## timacn

Wondering if anybody else has had a chance to evaluate Pava mandolins versus Collings mandolins. (particularly the MT2)

I know some people did this a while back, but I thought perhaps there might be some newer reviewers out there with opinions.

As I'm sure many of you know, it's very difficult to find some of these mandolins without traveling great distances!  It's even harder to find two of them to A/B in the same place.

Any insights or evaluations would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

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## jshane

Pava mandolins are better than people say they are..... including me.

I have never played a mandolin that had a better range of response than my Pava. The only thing close was an Ellis. Pava and Ellis are essentially the same mandolins, but for some reason I like my Pava better... I have been told that it may be because of the red maple back, but that is hear-say since I really have no personal knowledge comparing red vs sugar maple, in general.

There is just no tone that I have asked for that this mandolin hasn't delivered, and the sustain has to be heard to be believed.

I have heard Collings played, but haven actually had one in my own hands, so feel free to discount everything I say.

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## renoyd

Love Collings build and quality. Scary perfect. And here comes the blasphemous part - sound wise, they they don't have the soul and depth of a Pava. Someone once mentioned an analogy to wine, with Collings being a nice crisp white and a Pava being nice red. I'll take it further - the Collings would be a Sauvignon Blanc of good quality, say $15-20, while the Pava would have the rich deep character of a bottle of a great Pinot Noir or Cabernet that you would normally only consider on an expense account - something akin to mandolins of the great luthiers.  This is after many A-B tastings at different places and the results have been constant. I'm going to duck and get out of the way, but you asked for opinions, so...

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## AlanN

I picked on a Pava A at IBMA last year, great sounding and playing. I walked by the Ellis booth and there was another guy playing one, running through East Tennessee Blues. I grabbed one sitting on a stand and we ran through chorus after chorus. We had a crowd form and we handed off each mandolin to the other, must have sat there 30 minutes or more. Hard to notice any difference between the two - they were both A models with F holes. Both played real easy, were bright and very responsive. I'm not much of an A guy, but I'd buy one were I in the market.

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## CelticDude

Wow, I hate to be the naysayer, but I have to disagree.  I've played the same Pava a couple times over the past few months, at a shop that also has at least one MT2 in stock at any given time (yesterday they had two). I consider the Pava I played to be on a par with my MT.  That's to say, pretty d@mn good.  However,the MT2's yesterday were wonderful, especially one that had just arrived (I was the first customer to play it.)  Both had perfect tone, and the new one was wonderfully responsive and warm. I'm not a BG player, but that MT2 was perfect for pretty much everything else.  I've been looking to upgrade to a fancy oval-hole, but I think these MT2's have convinced me otherwise.  Granted, it's based on a sample size of one Pava, and I don't recall which model it was. And as always, YMMV.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Being an admirer of Tom Ellis's mandolins,i've read every thread / post on here regarding Ellis & now,Pava mandolins. From what i _have_ read,the consensus of opinion,is that the Pavas are exceptional mandolins 'regardless of cost'. However,as in all things,they won't be to everybody's taste,
                                                         Ivan

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## Capt. E

> However,as in all things,they won't be to everybody's taste,
>                                                          Ivan


There is the key. Many people love Collings mandolins, but they have never been to my taste either. I have had many chances to play them side by side, and while I have found Collins mandolins that are very nice indeed, I prefer the Ellis and Pava mandolins' sound. An Ellis A will cost you near $6000. A top model Pava near $3000. Tom and Pava are a team, to say the least and the quality of both brands is high as a result. The appointments and finishing of the Ellis mandolins are of a higher level than the Pava instruments. The sound produced is virtually identical. Of course, there is the renown Ellis F mandolin. Pava makes only the A body.

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## desertnight

I have played many Collings mandolins and like them all but when I played the Pava mandolins I knew there was much more to the depth of tone, playability and another level of workmanship.  They've got all the power one could want for bluegrass and all the subtleties for lighter playing in classic, and celtic styles throughout the entire range of the instruments. Check out Nate Lee in Nashville if you get a chance. His is fantastic as is his playing! 

One of the most important things to remember about any mandolin is if it's capable of producing the tone with the right build and playability it will really sound the way you the individual plays and sounds him or herself.  Just hand your mandolin to someone else and see. 

Go Pava!

www.desertnight.com
www.hardroadtrio.com

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Tommcgtx

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## jclover

I have a Pava and an Ellis.  They are clearly "family", but they are not equivilent in tone.  Think cousins rather than brothers.  Of course, I am dealing with a sample size of one each, so YMMV.   Just to be clear, my Pava is excellent.  The Ellis is even better.

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## Capt. E

> I have a Pava and an Ellis.  They are clearly "family", but they are not equivilent in tone.  Think cousins rather than brothers.  Of course, I am dealing with a sample size of one each, so YMMV.   Just to be clear, my Pava is excellent.  The Ellis is even better.


Yes, I'll agree. Cousins, not siblings...nothing against either one.

I have always wondered how much "Ellis" there is in Collings' mandolins since Bill Collins and Tom Ellis had their work benches side by side for several years. That was before Collins ever attempted to make a mandolin, but was only making guitars. The two are friends and probably learned from each other. Their business models are quite different, however.

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## Josh Levine

The only time i played a Pava was about 2 years ago. It was at the Music Emporium. It stood out as a great sounding mandolin, somewhat similar to Collings, but with more depth. Although, I believe the MT2 may have a little more cut and volume in some cases. I've played some decent MT2s and some really nice MT2s. I currently have an MT2 and it cuts significantly more than an MT, more hard hitting. In my experience the Pavas are more refined. I do own an Ellis and it cuts, is loud, and has depth and complexity. I would be curious to play a Pava now to see how they sound having owned a few Collings and an Ellis.

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## Tobin

> Yes, I'll agree. Cousins, not siblings...nothing against either one.
> 
> I have always wondered how much "Ellis" there is in Collings' mandolins since Bill Collins and Tom Ellis had their work benches side by side for several years. That was before Collins ever attempted to make a mandolin, but was only making guitars. The two are friends and probably learned from each other. Their business models are quite different, however.


Tom has commented on this subject a couple of times, notably here and here.  Sounds like there wasn't much in the way of learning or sharing between the two, in terms of how their mandolin building specs evolved.  

I of course also own a Pava and an Ellis F5 Special.  Compared to other mandolin brands that I'm exposed to on a regular basis, the Pava and Ellis sound very similar; I'd still describe them as siblings, or half-siblings (given that siblings can still be very different even with the same parental DNA).  To me, they sound more alike than different, although they definitely do not sound the same.  Their differences have become more apparent the longer I've owned them.  And to be honest, their differences change with different strings and picks and such, to the point where it's difficult to accurately describe their similarities and differences except to just say they sound different from other brands.  Totally worthless description, I know.  Sorry.

One thing's for sure, though.  The Pava sounds fantastic.  The day we bought it, my wife and I actually went to the shop intending to purchase a Collings (not knowing they had a Pava there).  We played them both, along with some others, and it was the Pava that clearly spoke to both of us.  This was just personal preference, of course, as both the Pava and Collings A-styles are very good mandolins.  Ain't nothing wrong with the Collings MT2, but we just preferred the sound and some of the other appointments of the Pava.  

But to answer the original question, are the Pavas as good as everyone says?  Yes.  Absolutely.

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## TEvans

When I was in the market for an Ellis A5 - which I eventually ended up with - I was EXTREMELY tempted by a Pava Pro that Fiddler's Green had in stock.  It was....incredible.  The strings were old and looked like they had quite a bit of play on them, and this thing still barked as loud as I've heard any bluegrass mandolin.  Not only that, but the notes rolled out of that mandolin full and fat on quick fiddle tunes.

To me, that Pava Pro was an Ellis A5 with lacquer (instead of varnish) and a different name on the headstock.  I was going to buy it, then I found a great price on a used Ellis, and ended up with that.

But if I ever needed another mandolin, I would strongly consider the Pava.  
I've also been down to the Ellis shop and visited for a while with Tom and Pava.  Great crew, and really awesome people.  Pava was awesome.  Both her and Tom know how a mandolin should sound, so don't expect anything less coming out of their shop.  Their instruments are top notch.

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## Kroland

I've had a Pava for almost two years (and a Collings MTO, but that's a very different beast from an MT). I like my Pava more than any new MT I've found, but the couple broken-in MTs I've played have been at least on par with my Pava, if not slightly better sound-wise. From what I've read, the MT's englemann spruce top takes longer to really open up than the Pava's adirondack top. Playability, fit, and finish were basically equal. Though I'm definitely a fan, I do think the Pava mandolins are a little over-praised. They're excellent, but there's a lot of other excellent stuff out there as well.

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## Chunky But Funky

> From what I've read, the MT's englemann spruce top takes longer to really open up than the Pava's adirondack top.


It has always been explained to me the exact opposite.  Englemann is the top wood of choice for "immediate gratification" and adirondack tops open up over time after being "played in".  Anyone, anyone ... or is it just me?  FWIW, I've had both an MT and a few MT2's.  It has been my experience as well.  

Doug

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dan@kins

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## Kroland

> I've had both an MT and a few MT2's.  It has been my experience as well.  
> 
> Doug


Interesting; I may have remembered it backwards. So was your experience that the Collings took a while to really open up, or the opposite? As far as my Pava goes, I found that it seemed to continue opening up tone-wise for about 6 months, but I haven't noticed any difference this past year.

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## dcoventry

> I have a Pava and an Ellis.  They are clearly "family", but they are not equivilent in tone.  Think cousins rather than brothers.  Of course, I am dealing with a sample size of one each, so YMMV.   Just to be clear, my Pava is excellent.  The Ellis is even better.


Slightly off topic, But as a Rigel fanatic, I'd really like to know how your A+ fits into that crew.

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## Danny Clark

Pava Mandolins: Are they as good as people say they are?

Yes they are

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dan@kins, 

Frank Farley

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Like others, I can only speak to my own personal preferences: I have own a couple of MTs and a couple of Pava, and to me, I much prefer the Pava sound as well as the playability. The low end on a Pava really pops, and the high notes are also fat and full. The more rounded neck profile on a Pava suits my hand better than the sharper V on an MT.  However, as I have never played a MT2 I can't speak to how they compare.  

Also, I know others have touched on the subject, but having played just one Ellis A5 in my life, I'd say that my Pava sounds a lot like an Ellis, but the latter has a lot more going for it in terms of tone complexity and punch.  I think it is fair to think that when getting a Pava you're getting a piece of Ellis, but if you really want an Ellis, there's nothing else quite like it.

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## Russ Donahue

Yes. They are as good as people say. Played an MT and a Player the same day. The sound of the Pava was a dight warmer. Construction, fit and finish was superb on both. Loved both. Have two Collings, but no Pava. My sense is they are very similar instruments. YMMV.

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## Grommet

I am a huge fan of Collings mandolins and a MT was on my short list. I was able to a/b a Pava Satin model with a new MT and a mint used MT-2V at TMS last November. I chose the Pava over the MT as soon as I played it based on the resonance and depth of tone. The MT was great mandolin also, what I had always wanted, and perhaps had a bit more cut. I might also prefer the Collings neck profile a little over the Pava, at least in playing chop chords. I also was thinking I might want an MT for the availability of the1 3/16" nut width. But the darker tone and super responsiveness of the Pava Satin model appealed to me. 

The used MT-2v Tangerine burst sounded fantastic and was drop dead gorgeous, but even used, was a bit pricey. Since MT-2s can be ordered with custom woods it would really helpful if I could specify which woods were used in making that one, but alas I didn't find out. The MT-2V had great feel and great tone. The Pava seemed to have greater clarity on notes above the 12th fret. So, I re-tested the two Collings and that clinched it. Whichever brand you choose you are getting a fantastic instrument. I suggest skipping the satin models since you will rub shiny spots on them pronto. The gloss models could save you money by not needing buffing out or aftermarket pick guards (Doug at Hill Country Stringworks is making me one). Yes, the Pava mandolins have a remarkable sound. We are so lucky to have the great number of fine instruments to choose from today.  Cant wait to test drive some of the other great ones out there!

Scott

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## Nick Gellie

I have had a Collings MT and now have a Pava mandolin.  Tonewise, I found the tone of the Collings MT to be a more nasal and brash in tone at the treble end, pretty much the same as the Pava in the mids and bass.  I have some issues with the setup of the Collings.  I think that the neck went out of wack a bit - I did have to adjust the truss rod.  The Pava has had little need of adjustment.

The MT had more cut and projection a bit like a Northfield Model M.  It all depends on what one wants.  There is a simple recourse to play several if you are not sure and work out what you like.  From what MT2's sound clips that around, they can be a very nice mandolin.

Chad at the House of Fine Instruments playing a Collings MT2V:

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## almeriastrings

I have only encountered one Pava to date, and I was very impressed. Definitely in the Ellis camp in terms of voicing. Very good low end, with nice rich, but clear highs and plenty of volume. Beautifully built. A truly fine mandolin, in short. As for Collings, well, they are also very nice instruments, of course. Voicing is different than the Pava (or the Ellis). Collings make a lovely mandolin, but to date, although I have played a number none of them 'spoke to me' (as in "Buy Me Now - no excuses!") in the same way that Ellis grabbed me. If I was in the market for an 'A', I would certainly have Pava in my sights.

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## renoyd

To make this more interesting, I would like to bring up another choice, also from Austin and with connections to both Collings and Ellis - the Passernig! Costing between a Pava Pro and an MT2, Stefan Passernig's A5 is a beautiful thing that many who have heard it have the opinion (including me) that these go yet beyond all others mentioned this far, and  beyond even many higher end makers. While more obscure perhaps, well worth the effort of seeking out.

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## Ivan Kelsall

From Capt. E - _"Bill Collings and Tom Ellis had their work benches side by side for several years."_. So did Bruce Weber & Paul Schneider (Summit Mandolins),2 makes of mandolin that use the 'bolt on' neck adjustment prior to final glueing,& of the ones i've played,so incredibly similar in sound quality,
                                                          Ivan

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## jclover

> Slightly off topic, But as a Rigel fanatic, I'd really like to know how your A+ fits into that crew.


It is a great mandolin.  By far the most ergonomic with all those round edges.  Really nice "all around" tone, it sounds good playing almost anything.  My only issue is one of preference.  I like thinner nut widths and smaller profile on the neck.   I am at the point where I need to start thinning the herd.

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## 9lbShellhamer

I played all of the Pava models at Carter Vintage this winter. I was blown away by the volume on the Pava Pro. I played the other satin models and was pretty unimpressed, but that is after playing a lot of $20K mandolins, mind you. I declared on multiple occasions that the Pava Pro is one heck of a mandolin, and undoubtedly it could hang with a lot of mandolins that cost 2 and 3 times more in cost.

A month later I played a Collings MT2 that blew my mind and I bought it. 

I've played Collings MT's and Pava's satin models and I've not been too impressed. To me, I don't believe that the upgraded models are purely cosmetic, because they typically blow the lesser models out of the water in tone and volume. That's my humble opinion. The Pava Pro and the Collings MT2 are both incredible mandolins and you can't go wrong either way. The volume on that Pava Pro is something I'll never forget. The tone and volume combined on my Collings MT2 are also something I cherish hearing every day.

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## Nick Gellie

The Pava Pro could have been an exceptional one in the production line.  I have a Pava Player and I have played an Ellis F5 in Spain and I would class the Pava Player I have a close second to the Ellis F5 I played.  Not everyone hangs their hat on the volume aspect. It is important if you go to jams and want to be heard.  Otherwise if you are at home, sometimes a moderately loud mandolin is useful for playing by oneself.  Myself I go for the tone first and volume a close second.

My Arches FT-O (oval hole)  is the loudest mandolin I have but still has a nice ringing tone with lots of sustain.  The Pava and Black A2Z are a close equal second. I have found the Black and FT-O love being played in company - they sing out to the vibrations of other instruments being played.

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## Nick Gellie

I now have both a Collings MT and an early Pava.  I would say that the MT is stand warmer and darker in the mids and bass.  Surprisingly my Pava is overall brighter and clearer sounding yet both have plenty of cut and projection.  They have the same comfort and playability.  I hardly notice the difference in neck profiles.  They are both superbly built.  It is a pity that the Pava does not come out as a varnish model.

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## RhodyMando

I have never played a Collings mandolin. I do own a Pava A Style. It is actually the 2nd one produced.  It is a great mandolin. Every one who I have let play it is very impressed. Has a great tone. A joy to play.

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## pheffernan

> It is a pity that the Pava does not come out as a varnish model.


It does. It's just called an Ellis!   :Wink:

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## almeriastrings

> It does. It's just called an Ellis!


I have never played a Pava F-style, but.... there are differences between Pava and Ellis. They are both very, very nice mandolins, but as Tom Ellis himself has said, he does the critical graduation personally on the Ellis, although Pava will almost certainly also worked on other aspects.  So, although from the same shop - two different "masters" involved and each instrument does carry a certain 'signature tone and feel' as a result. They are not identical.

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DataNick

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## Capt. E

> I have never played a Pava F-style...


Are there any Pava F's? I haven't seen any. I believe Pava is working on building an F, but I don't think any have been shipped. Maybe I should stop by the shop on my way home and get a first-hand update.
 It is only a couple of miles away from my house.

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## Canoedad

> Are there any Pava F's? I haven't seen any. I believe Pava is working on building an F, but I don't think any have been shipped. Maybe I should stop by the shop on my way home and get a first-hand update.
>  It is only a couple of miles away from my house.


One just showed up at Fiddler's Green  http://www.fiddlersgreenmusicshop.co...nt/pava-f5-pro

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## Nick Gellie

> I have only encountered one Pava to date, and I was very impressed. Definitely in the Ellis camp in terms of voicing. Very good low end, with nice rich, but clear highs and plenty of volume. Beautifully built. A truly fine mandolin, in short. As for Collings, well, they are also very nice instruments, of course. Voicing is different than the Pava (or the Ellis). Collings make a lovely mandolin, but to date, although I have played a number none of them 'spoke to me' (as in "Buy Me Now - no excuses!") in the same way that Ellis grabbed me. If I was in the market for an 'A', I would certainly have Pava in my sights.



Surprisingly my Collings MT is closer to the Ellis A5 tone than the Pava.  Both the Collings MT and the Pava have more projection and punch than the Ellis A I had briefly.  That Ellis was a parlour instrument best played in a small setting than in a jam or perhaps played in a miked up setting.  It had Fantastic rich tones and was great to play.

A varnish Pava without the trappings of an Ellis A is what I mean.  I think that Tom should let Pava build a varnish A for the hell of it.

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## lonestar_shawn

I played the Pava F-5 that Pava had at Winfield, which I believe was headed for IBMA, and it was a great mandolin.  I also got to talk with Pava quite and bit and she was delightful.  The Pava F sounded pretty different from the Ellis F that Tom had there.  To generalize, the Pava was brighter (not in a bad way) and the Ellis had a richer bass.  The Pava was easier to hear in that loud environment.

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Charles E.

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## Nick Gellie

> I played the Pava F-5 that Pava had at Winfield, which I believe was headed for IBMA, and it was a great mandolin.  I also got to talk with Pava quite and bit and she was delightful.  The Pava F sounded pretty different from the Ellis F that Tom had there.  To generalize, the Pava was brighter (not in a bad way) and the Ellis had a richer bass.  The Pava was easier to hear in that loud environment.


Lonestar-Shawn,  that concurs with my experience the Pava is easier to hear in a loud environment. It is a brighter sounding instrument.  If you want a deeper sound that cuts in a loud environment the Collings MT will approximate an Ellis and yet have the cut to be heard in that setting.

That is why I am glad to have both instruments.

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## Capt. E

> One just showed up at Fiddler's Green  http://www.fiddlersgreenmusicshop.co...nt/pava-f5-pro


I almost went by there today...

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## LadysSolo

I love my Pava Player, that plus my Weber and my bowlbacks and I have all the mandolins I will ever need. The Pava sounds great and plays easily, and is very responsive. I have never regretted the purchase.

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## doc holiday

Nick, It's always interesting comparing individual instruments, and drawing conclusions. I've owned a Collings MT (and been around a bunch of them over time), and currently own an Ellis A5 (and play around 3 or 4 Ellis Fs). A very good friend of mine owns a Pava player.  My MT and all the ones I play with are brighter instruments than my Ellis A5  and brighter than the Pava player. ... I guess mileage may vary?

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## Nick Gellie

> One just showed up at Fiddler's Green  http://www.fiddlersgreenmusicshop.co...nt/pava-f5-pro



Yes I checked it out on the HD video setting. Great mandolin!  Beyond my price range though and I am not into F style mandolins even though I have made one.  When it is finished, it will be up for sale.

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## Charles E.

[QUOTE=  The Pava F sounded pretty different from the Ellis F that Tom had there.  To generalize, the Pava was brighter (not in a bad way) and the Ellis had a richer bass.  The Pava was easier to hear in that loud environment.[/QUOTE]

I stopped by the Ellis booth at this years IBMA and had the exact same impression. I actually thought that one of the Pava A models sounded better then almost everything on the table. The one the stood out for me  was the Ellis deluxe F-5 with the Hendal style tuner buttons. That mandolin was amazing.

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## Nick Gellie

If you want a mandolin that sounds amazing and you use it in a mike band situation, the Ellis will deliver the goods but if you want a mandolin that can project in a loud jam environment and you are willing to let go about the Ellis tone you go with a Pava.  It is about type of strings and what pick you use to get the best out of the tone of a Pava.  I used a Dawg Pick this morning to get more bass out of the Pava.  Still had plenty of treble though.

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## Josh Levine

I have a Ellis F5 and Pava A5. They both have about equal volume (loud). As others have said, the Pava cuts more because of it's brightness. The Ellis is dark and bassy. Both great.

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## Ron McMillan

The Pava F5 looks lovely, but the specs of the A5 are seemingly identical (according to the Pava and Ellis websites), meaning that the extra work in the scrolls and points adds about $3000 to the price. Much as I love the appearance of the F5, I'd balk at paying so much extra for decorations when the beautiful A5 Pro model is such a bargain.

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## Nick Gellie

> The Pava F5 looks lovely, but the specs of the A5 are seemingly identical (according to the Pava and Ellis websites), meaning that the extra work in the scrolls and points adds about $3000 to the price. Much as I love the appearance of the F5, I'd balk at paying so much extra for decorations when the beautiful A5 Pro model is such a bargain.


Well the earlier Pava A5s are pretty much like a Pava Pro.  Mine has triple binding front and back without the ivoroid trim on the fingerboard and headstock.  And it sounds pretty much the same to me as the Pava Pro.  I just aim for a darker sounding pick like a Wegen black mandolin pick and I am pretty sure that if play in a jam I will use a buffalo horn pick to get the cut and projection.  iI am still considering what strings to put on her when the E74s wear out.  I am thinking of getting some GHS A270s just to try out.

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## Nick Gellie

Well Doc,

I not sure what they did to my Collings MT, it is definitely darker sounding than the Pava across all strings and its chop is dark as the Ellis I had.  I have had it for three months now and it is definitely louder and darker than when I first got it.  I think it all depends if the Collings MTs you played had been played enough.  I have compared my Collings MT to Baron Collings Hill's Ellis A-5 and there is no much in it.  I could be just lucky of course and I welcome the difference in tone between the Pava and the Collings MT.

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## almeriastrings

Regarding both volume and 'cut' I must confess I have never had any problem at all with an Ellis. They can be so loud they peel paint, and at a music camp back in May where I was an instructor, I had the Ellis up against no less than ten banjos (no sound system in use) at a student concert and it was not even close to getting 'lost'. You do have to dig in a bit to bring out that ability.. but they can take the hard driving... and I use a BC TAD60. There is as much volume and 'cut' there as I could ever envisage needing, any more and I'd need hearing protection  :Mandosmiley:

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DataNick

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## Nick Gellie

Well Tony you must have a good one there.

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## Nick Gellie

This video done by Dennis at the Mandolin Store illustrates how it sounds even though the sound recording environment is not great:




I am not sure that dry woody tone really describes how it sounds. The Northfield Model M to my knowledge has much more of a dry woody tone.  I had one and had to let it go to put down a concrete slab in my shed where I hope to make instruments from time to time.

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Ron McMillan

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## Mandobar

The earlier Pavas had one piece backs, and came in one "flavor", lacquer finish.  These were much more like Collings MT2s, with adirondack tops.  To my eyes and ears, they were more similar to an Ellis than the few I have played recently.

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Nick Gellie

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## Nick Gellie

> The earlier Pavas had one piece backs, and came in one "flavor", lacquer finish.  These were much more like Collings MT2s, with adirondack tops.  To my eyes and ears, they were more similar to an Ellis than the few I have played recently.


I agree with your assessment.  Mine has a one piece back.  Where did yours sit?  I think it was on consignment with the Music Emporium not long back.

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## Mandobar

Yes, mine is on consignment at TME, along with some other instruments.  I had the chance to acquire a once in a lifetime instrument recently, and these instruments are now just sitting in their cases.  While they are all great instruments, someone should be enjoying them.  As I am playing four or five times a week now, playing has taken a precedence over buying these days.

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## JeffD

"Pava Mandolins: Are they as good as people say they are?"

Yes.

I have only played one, at a festival, and it wasn't an A/B comparison with anything else, and I have not played an Ellis. But I was really really impressed. 

I think maybe they have a public relations disadvantage in a way, being perceived by some as an "almost Ellis". No matter how good you are, you don't want to be an "almost" something else. It is unfortunate because they really are just really good mandolins.

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## Mark Wilson

I've had two.  A one piece back 2014 satin that is darker/sweeter in tone than the 2 piece back 2015 model.  The 2 piece back sounded more like a Collins MT imo.  Bright and lively.  Fit and finish on both were perfect.  Both were set up with lo action so they play remarkably easy for those that prefer lo action.

I kept #69 2014 and judge all mandolins I play by it.

The Elis A5's I've played are close to the Pava in tone but with a little something extra.  Maybe its the varnish finish?  There is a significant price difference(double) between Ellis and Pava, so to say the Pava is close to the Ellis is no slight to the Pava. imo  :Cool:

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## Josh Levine

I'll try to find some time to record sound clips of the Ellis and Pava and we can see if there is any discernible difference on my puny iphone recording device.

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## Nick Gellie

I will do a recording with my Collings MT and Pava.  The two are not dissimilar in tone.  I would also add that the Pava is not that dissimilar to a Collings MT2.  I think that the Pava just has more clarity.  Volume wise I would say the MT2 might be slightly ahead.

If the Pavas had a varnish finish they would have that extra Mojo. But still I am happy with the way mine is. I concur either above descriptions of their tonal characteristics.

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## almeriastrings

One important difference is that the Pava's are built using red maple (_Acer rubrum_), while most of the Ellis's (at least mine, and the others I have seen) employ sugar maple (_Acer saccharum_) these are different species, and the latter typically has a slightly higher density also. This alone would account for some consistent tonal differences (in addition to the fact that they are graduated by different people).

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DataNick

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## Josh Levine

Ok folks. These were recorded on my iphone, so grain of salt... You judge which you like more or if there are any major differences.

A.mp3
B.mp3

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## Josh Levine

Both have EXP75s that are about a week old and both were played with a TAD50. Pava has a tone guard on, Ellis does not, but I tried to hold it so that it wasn't touching my chest. I noticed a dead giveaway, but I'm not going to say what it is.

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## pheffernan

> I had the chance to acquire a once in a lifetime instrument recently, and these instruments are now just sitting in their cases.


I don't recall a NMD thread from you recently, Mary. Spill!  :Popcorn:

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## Nick Gellie

> One important difference is that the Pava's are built using red maple (_Acer rubrum_), while most of the Ellis's (at least mine, and the others I have seen) employ sugar maple (_Acer saccharum_) these are different species, and the latter typically has a slightly higher density also. This alone would account for some consistent tonal differences (in addition to the fact that they are graduated by different people).



According to Cathy at Ellis mandolins the early ones were sometimes made with Sugar Maple.  Mine might be on of those.

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## red7flag

Nick, my Ellis is broad leaf which from what I think Tom said is less dense than the sugar maple.  He offered me either, but not playing much grass, anymore, I opted for the broad leaf.  I really like the sustain that my F5 provides.  I have had no problems in any grass jam that I have been in, but then I play with a heavy right hand.
Now to Pava.  I was in Carter's the other day and played two Pava A models that he had.  The Pavas I played were no doubt in the same family tree as all the Ellises that I have played.  There just seems to be a common thread with all of them.  Personally, I did not hear the Collins lineage that I am also familiar with.  Again, that was only two Pavas and both were new.  I have no knowledge of the earlier models.  Tone and playability are just outstanding at that price point.  So yes, there are as good as people say they are.

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## Nick Gellie

Tony, your insights into the different species of Ellis mandolins are spot on.  I am pretty that Sugar Maple gives more projection and Broad Leafed Maple gives more depth and sustain.  I am now pretty sure mine was made with a Sugar Leaf Maple and hence the brighter tone.  There is a difference between my Collings MT and Pava - the Collings MT with its Englemann Spruce top had more depth and perhaps more overtones and is a tad darker in tone than my Pava.  As mine is an early model it cannot be said that it is typical of the newer instruments being made.  A mandolin maker has every right to tweak or change things after getting feedback to improve the tonal quality or response of of his or her instruments.

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