# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Steve Carlson

## salleyann

Anyone know how long he signed Gibsons?

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## UsuallyPickin

Good question .... I have an 88' and a 90'.. currently there is an ad on Ebay for a 96' F5V said to have his signature....I look forward to knowing this bit of Gibson history... R/

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## salleyann

I thought the 95's & 96's were signed bu Balian and Weber, maybe not.

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## MikeEdgerton

There's a thread around here with some dates but I can't seem to find it. *This* one was humorous though.

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hank

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## salleyann

I have a '91 A-5G with his signature and I thought this was about the time he left Gibson.

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## dwne

...and I have a Carlson-signed A-5G dated May 22 1992.

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## MikeEdgerton

Every thread with the word Carlson in the subject line can be found *here*.

Every thread with the words Steve and Carlson in the message body can be found *here*.

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## AlanN

I *had* a Flatiron F-5 Artist, signed by Carlson in October, 1985 (85100106)

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## dleaman

I have a 1987 Flatiron F-5 Artist that I bought new in May of 87.  I had Steve Carlson sign the label on the usual line, and I had Dennis Balian sign the same label on the lower edge.  I had Dennis sign it because we grew up together in West Chester PA and he was a good friend of my brother (also named) Steve.  Dennis was an incredible skier which is one of the reasons he moved from Pennsylvania to Montana.  My Artist is in near mint and sounds great.

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## fatt-dad

my 84 A5-1 Flatiron is signed by Steve Carlson. I think there are a few 83s with his signature.  I'm not aware of signed pancakes.

f-d

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## Steve Carlson

I left Gibson at the end of 1993. Hope that helps.

Steve Carlson

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bradlaird, 

David Rambo, 

hank

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## Josh Kaplan

Wow. Your work has many admirers here. Thank you for your innovative approaches to making mandolins.

Josh

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Eldon Dennis, 

hank

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## Andrew B. Carlson

> Every thread with the word Carlson in the subject line can be found *here*.
> 
> Every thread with the words Steve and Carlson in the message body can be found *here*.


  Gotta love that particular search.  :Wink:  Hi Steve. Nice to see us admired so much.

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## rico mando

> I left Gibson at the end of 1993. Hope that helps.
> 
> Steve Carlson


I have a 91 gibson A-5g Signed by you  . she is my baby and i love it . Thanks steve

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## Steve Carlson

What serial #? '91 was a great year for me. Myself, Bruce, and the core crew were able to take mandos back to the red shop, out of the guitar plant, and get back to business. A-5 and F-5G's always some of my favorites. Love the color and overall look. I'm surprised not to see more (or any) A-5L's pictured in these pages. My favorite pics here are of the H-5 mandola.

Best,
Steve

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## fatt-dad

Here's a photo of the A5-1 you signed in 1984.  It's the photo from when George Gruhn had it listed (and I bought it):



The back of this mandolin is truly spectacular (well the sound and playability too)!



I'm very happy with my Flatirons.  I have an '84 1N too:



f-d

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DaveBCC

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## Mike Black

Here is your January 13th 1992 F5 Classic with Virzi.

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## rico mando

> What serial #? '91 was a great year for me. 
> 
> Best,
> Steve


april , 22,91 # 1136049  I will try some pics . maybe we should start a group . owners of carlson signed mandos

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## Bernie Daniel

> What serial #? '91 was a great year for me. Myself, Bruce, and the core crew were able to take mandos back to the red shop, out of the guitar plant, and get back to business. A-5 and F-5G's always some of my favorites. Love the color and overall look. I'm surprised not to see more (or any) A-5L's pictured in these pages. My favorite pics here are of the H-5 mandola.  Best,
> Steve


Taken literally that means you only made one H-5?   I know I've e seen pics of several from that time period -- but perhaps only one was signed by yourself?  Or perhaps I'm reading it too literally? :Smile: 

In any case they are beautiful instruments for certain.  Were they built to the Loar H-5 plans or did you have to measure a 20's H-5 and develop your own plans?

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## Steve Carlson

Funny thing . . . I was just talking to Ren yesterday about Virzi's. I could be wrong but yours may be the only one out there. We might have made two, but I don't think so.

When I look at these pictures, especially the back grain, book-matching and color, it's like being there for me.

'83-84 were also memorable years (I guess they all were). Flatiron moved from making 16 'flats' a week to 10 flats and 6 carve tops/weekly.   

Best,
Steve

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## Steve Carlson

Too literal. We made more than one H-5 Mola for sure. Not related to early H-5 really at all. Scale length was the driving force.

Steve

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## rico mando



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## rico mando

How about a pic of Mr Carlson . so I can see who made my mandolin ?

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## Bill Van Liere

Love my 84 Jr. Steve. Bought it new and have played it since, never had any issues with it ever.

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## David Horovitz

I was the caretaker of an '89 A5-L for about 6 years. A great mandolin.

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## Charlie Ayers

Here is a Steve Carlson '84 Flatiron F5 I owned. Very amazing woods.

Charlie

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## Jim Hilburn

Hi, Steve. I had a chance to meet Chuck Morrison in Boulder when he contacted me about a presentation he was giving for the Boulder Guitar Society about the early days in luthiery in the Boulder area because I'm old enough to have gotten to know some of the players in those days. I was surprised to hear his story of how Flatirons started and finally understood the Boulder connection.

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## mandolinlee

Hi Steve Carlson.  
I have a 1987 Gibson F5L that you signed in September of that year. I bought it new through Mandolin Brothers, Staten Island, New York. Shortley after taking possession of it I phoned you in Montana and had a nice conversation with you about the instrument, plus you explained the significance of the serial number. Still playing it as my main mandolin and enjoy it very much. Thank you, good to hear from you via mandolincafe.
Regards,
Lee H. Bayliss

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## Steve Carlson

> How about a pic of Mr Carlson . so I can see who made my mandolin ?


OK, not sure what you want/hope to see in your 'mandolin maker'. So I oblige with a potpourri of the many faces . . . and you get to choose.  :Smile: 

 Flatiron 2MW I gave to my father. My niece seemed to enjoy my rendition of 'Golden Slippers'.

  'Christmas Times a-Comin' 

 Summer NAMM '87. Signing the 1st 4 Montana F-5L's at NAMM. Henry signed the 1st 4 also. Notice Jim Triggs and Greg Rich (background 1st photo).

 w/Jim Triggs . . . w/Greg Rich . . . Dennis Balian w/Roger Siminoff.

 Charlie Derrington and Dennis . . . Stan Jay and Ellen . . . Flatiron Booth as it appeared in the Gibson booth summer 1987.

 Henry and myself with the 1st walls of the Guitar plant going up.



Best,
Steve Carlson

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bradlaird, 

DaveBCC, 

hank

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## rico mando

Thanks for the pics steve . so many faceless names in the forum .nice to see we are all just folk .

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## Steve Carlson

> Hi, Steve. I had a chance to meet Chuck Morrison in Boulder when he contacted me about a presentation he was giving for the Boulder Guitar Society about the early days in luthiery in the Boulder area because I'm old enough to have gotten to know some of the players in those days. I was surprised to hear his story of how Flatirons started and finally understood the Boulder connection.


I haven't seen Chuck in years, no . . . decades. The 1986 Flatiron newsletter has fairly complete details of how I first met Chuck at the Colorado Bluegrass Festival . . . summer of 1977, maybe '76. I grew up in Boulder, so the name was a natural. Climbed up behind them many times.

Best,
Steve

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## fatt-dad

So Steve, can you explain why you all used X-bracing in your arched-top mandolins when you began making them?  I just think it's great and love my Flatiron.  Just wondered what led you all to use x-bracing.

(On a related, but unrelated note - I went to college in Fort Collins, B. S. Geology, 1977 and lived/worked in Boulder for a spell afterwards.  Your brand stuck with me from the onset.)

f-d

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## Hendrik Ahrend

> I left Gibson at the end of 1993. Hope that helps.
> 
> Steve Carlson


I used to own a Gibson F5 Custom, which was signed by Bruce Weber in November '93. Should be one of the earliest Webers, I assume.

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## Gary Watkins

> Funny thing . . . I was just talking to Ren yesterday about Virzi's. I could be wrong but yours may be the only one out there. We might have made two, but I don't think so.
> 
> When I look at these pictures, especially the back grain, book-matching and color, it's like being there for me.
> 
> '83-84 were also memorable years (I guess they all were). Flatiron moved from making 16 'flats' a week to 10 flats and 6 carve tops/weekly.   
> 
> Best,
> Steve


I’m in the process of purchasing a 1993 Gibson F5 Custom with a Carlson signed label and a factory Virzi. It has letter from Gruhn stating the value (as of August 8, 2000) and that is came from the factory with the Virzi as an option. I can hardly wait to get it!

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## atetone

Wow,,, Steve Carlson posting on the Cafe and posting old pictures.
That is pretty cool. Nice to be able to put a face to the signature.
I have a 1984 Flatiron A5-1 SERIAL # 84110434
I was sort of keeping my eye out for one for a couple of years and then stumbled upon this one.
I bought it from craigslist sight unseen and much to my suprise it arrived unplayed and as close to mint as you can get.
I guess if you buy enough mandolins online you have to get lucky sooner or later!
Great mandolin with a thump of a chop. 
I really like the finish on these mandolins.

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## Steve Carlson

> So Steve, can you explain why you all used X-bracing in your arched-top mandolins when you began making them?  I just think it's great and love my Flatiron.  Just wondered what led you all to use x-bracing.
> 
> f-d


Sorry for the delay f-d,

The answer to your question and every similar question is this . . . 'it is found in the doing'. I'll try to clarify. When you are doing something . . . say traveling down a path or on a journey, you come to junctures in that path that require a decision. And each decision made has (or should have***) the same objective. And that is to accomplish the goal. Which in the case of a journey, is to reach the final destination.

So how that (those) decision(s) are made along this path is what make:
Companies Uniquefor Successful Resultsfor Interesting StoriesColossal failuresLife Interesting

In the doing then . . . is a constant flow of 'needs' which generate questions/feedback/decisions/regrouping/redirection, and new decision, etc. A constant feedback loop exists which is responded to. And lessons learned are better not forgotten.

Create a picture in your mind now about Flatiron at that time. Think of all the things you can picture and parse them into the process of decision making.

A key logic stream:
You make mandolins, you ship them to dealers. If you ship a 'great sounding mandolin' to your best dealer (or any dealer), it is highly likely that the best player in town is going to buy it. [Maybe he/she gives lessons at the store, we'll call her Joan]. If it sells, the store is likely to re-order (which is the goal). Now if the 2nd mandolin arriving at this store for some reason is not up to snuff with Joan's . . . you're in trouble.

That whole thought process is summed up in the word consistency. And it is an example of only one of the many objectives of a project.

So any project has a myriad of objectives and every company has a protocol for reaching consensus along this path of decisions.

In this specific case, what you don't know (which is a lot) you learn by asking questions . . . and question asking is my forte!  Dealer feedback was important. And of course many dealers were quite knowledgeable. You talk with anybody who knows anything. You read everything you can find. I had a full library of 'Pickin' and 'Frets' magazines with many pertinent articles and interviews, etc. You become of depository of information you in the end will sieve through and . . . build something.

Prototypes start to 'make real' the information gathered. My first was pretty awful. What looked good on paper looked like an onion in person. If you're 'learning', it's just trial and error . . . and time. Time going by while doing something. In the doing is progress made.

In the end, after numerous prototypes, I personally liked the X-braced sound and I felt that X-bracing gave me the consistency I was looking for. So that dealers and their customers could look forward to opening the case.

So the process is always the same. Doesn't matter what you're working on. In my present manufacturing business Phil and I are always discussing the next project or problem. Only now, we have 32 years of applied experience in the field. 32 years of asking questions, applying and learning. The challenge is much more, not forgetting what we've already figured out. 

Right now we have a customer whose truss rod doesn't work exactly the way he wants. The customer wants to try 'ABC' and we think more like 'XYZ'. So we've discussed it, laid out the extremes, and we're building 4 necks with 2 approaches, both appoaches with quarter-sawn and flat-sawn samples. The goal is to 'get there' as efficiently as possible. Nothings changed. That's the process.   

Question for you. Don't you have an original 'Carved Top Brochure'? It does cover some of this and may be of interest. I don't know.

Best,
Steve

***(The project process is oft times thwarted in the Corporate environment where individuals tend to spend more time tending their resume, than making a decision their accountable for. Thankfully this was not a problem for me at Flatiron (which was me) or Gibson, where I was allowed to be me.)

Suggested Reading:
'Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!' by Richard Feynman
'Made in Japan' The autobiography of Akiro Morito (Sony)

My Favorite Book: 'The Man Who Loved Only Numbers' The story of Paul Erdos

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bradlaird, 

craig.collas, 

hank, 

Sola

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## fatt-dad

Thanks for the fascinating reply!  I have heard of Ed Demmings and total quality management, which is a customer and worker focused path to better product and process.  I didn't buy my Flatiron new so the background I have on the early days (I.e., when my a5 was made) is mostly from this site.  Along the way, I did collect some information on the pre-Gibson Flatirons, however.

So, you still make instruments?  The folklore seems to suggest you stopped making instruments, maybe building other stuff.  Not to pry, that is. . .

THanks again for your reply!

f-d

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## mandogato

Thank you for your illuminating and insightful posts. It's wonderful to attach your personality to my beloved '88 F5L.

I'm going to get it re-fretted soon and when that happens I will also have a bit of finish work done on the scroll where I have worn it down to bare wood. Can you tell me what kind of finish is on my mandolin? It's dated May 9, 1988, serial # 8114058 and signed by you.

Much thanks...

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## Tom Mullen

Hi Steve.
I remember the day in the Summer of 1978 when I made a business trip thru Bozeman and stopped by the store to meet you and pick a few tunes. Later on we played at Karl Marx Pizza and went to Livingston and played on Ken Boom's radio program. That is when I met Tom Fish and some other local pickers. Lotsa fun in those days.
It is good to see your posts here on the Cafe.

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## Steve Carlson

> Hi Steve.
> I remember the day in the Summer of 1978 when I made a business trip thru Bozeman and stopped by the store to meet you and pick a few tunes. Later on we played at Karl Marx Pizza and went to Livingston and played on Ken Boom's radio program. That is when I met Tom Fish and some other local pickers. Lotsa fun in those days.
> It is good to see your posts here on the Cafe.


Hey Tom,

Long time my friend!

Yes . . . those were the days. I had occasion a year ago or so, with Ron King visiting in town, where we sat down and listened to that radio show and other old tapes. There was even one with Alan Munde joining us at the Filling Station. It had been probably 20 years since I'd heard them.

But, do you remember me driving to Helena on Friday night's and playing with you and Mike Williams at your local pizza place, then spending the night with your family if there was a snow storm. I think we did that for several weeks.

Thanks for the howdy and the memories!

Best to you,
Steve

Flatiron beginnings . . .

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## Gary Watkins

It's new to me! Here are a few pictures of my Gibson F5 Custom. It is a 1993 Bozeman, MT. signed mandolin by Steve Carlson. It has a factory installed Virzi and I am really proud of it! It has a BOBELOCK case too!

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## Gary Watkins

> Im in the process of purchasing a 1993 Gibson F5 Custom with a Carlson signed label and a factory Virzi. It has letter from Gruhn stating the value (as of August 8, 2000) and that is came from the factory with the Virzi as an option. I can hardly wait to get it!


Here's a few pictures of it.

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## Jim Garber

Oh. man... however did I miss this thread? Fantastic. I was one of the first buyers of an A5-2 back in 1983 (see below). I bought mine that year from Mandolin Brothers and still have and play it. I also contacted Steve a year or so later to see if he would build me a mandola but at that time he hadn't built any any said that he would have to build a few prototypes first so it would prob take a couple of years to make sure it was right.

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## Ken Berner

> I left Gibson at the end of 1993. Hope that helps.
> 
> Steve Carlson


You signed my 1993 Flatiron A-5 Artist and an additional label was also signed by approximately 15 other craftsmen. Some of the signatures were not legible and Paula Jean helped me with a few of the names. This instrument is an absolute cannon. My 1992 F-5 Artist is as good or better than anything I've heard in person! Thank you so much.

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## f5loar

I missed it too.   Must have been on vacation in a foreign land where there was no WiFi to catch up on the cafe.   I remember sometime in 1986 being at the Station Inn when Charlie D and Steve and others from Gibson were at the Station Inn right after the deal went down or was about to go down between Gibson and Flatiron.  I remember CD told me they were having trouble keeping up with the F5L production and they had to farm out to other luthiers to build them partial and Gibson factory finished them.  They needed someone who could do the whole process and maitain quality control much better.  I would say the marriage was a sucess for quite a number of years.   They put out some super Monroe models in Bozeman. If Steve is still reading this I wonder if he could tell the story of the Bobby Osborne model and why it didn't get past the prototype stage.

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## Jester

1992 F-5L signed by Steve Carlson. 

Fabulous tone, best sounding Mandolin they had at Mandolin Bros. that day.
It spanks everything I've played anywhere around here for comparison.

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## lenf12

Here's a '92 Gibson F-5L signed by Steve Carlson. It's one of very few blonde mandolins ever produced by Gibson (or Flatiron). I was very privileged to have it living at my house for a few years and later sold it to a well known West Coast player. It is a great mandolin (thanks Steve, Jill, Peter and Chris for your involvement in my stewardship of this exquisite mandolin).  



Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## oneeyeross

My poor old beat up 2M flatiron is a factory second, so it doesn't have a signature in it....but it sure plays pretty.  I'm guessing that the first two numbers of the serial number are the year of manufacture, so it is an 81...

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## UsuallyPickin

I just want to say "Thank you" Mr. Carlson .... I have an 88' F5L and a 90' A5L each signed by you that I am pleased and proud to play anywhere in any company. R/

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## mando-tech

> april , 22,91 # 1136049  I will try some pics . maybe we should start a group . owners of carlson signed mandos


I'll go for that!  I have two Carlson signed,- a '92, and a '91 - (shown in profile pic),  they both say F5L,..lets understand that the L stands for LACQUER and not Loar.... that was sort of an 'understood misunderstanding'!  The mandolin shown at left can be heard on MAPLE VALLEY BOYS  you tube, its featured on the non-gospel songs, the gospel selections are heard using a gibson A-12.

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## fatt-dad

I love this thread!

f-d

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## Dave Hicks

> I'll go for that!  I have two Carlson signed,- a '92, and a '91 - (shown in profile pic),  they both say F5L,..lets understand that the L stands for LACQUER and not Loar.... that was sort of an 'understood misunderstanding'!  The mandolin shown at left can be heard on MAPLE VALLEY BOYS  you tube, its featured on the non-gospel songs, the gospel selections are heard using a gibson A-12.


85 A5Jr

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## Mike Romkey

Great thread about a great builder.

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## almeriastrings

> I'll go for that!  I have two Carlson signed,- a '92, and a '91 - (shown in profile pic),  they both say F5L,..lets understand that the L stands for LACQUER and not Loar.... that was sort of an 'understood misunderstanding'!


_
" I offered the idea that we could call this "new" instrument the "F-5L" - the "L" in honor of Master Lloyd Loar"_

Roger Siminoff in "The F-5L Mandolin"

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/pub...s_001217.shtml

There would in any event be no reason to refer to "Lacquer" as that was the only finish being used at the time (1978).

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DataNick

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## f5loar

Agree.  It's for Loar and to keep it apart from the regular late 70's F5 which they were still making.  And the Fern inlay was also a Loar thing and also set it apart from the F5 flowerpot being used at the time. From the first ad for the new F5L reads "The new instrument, named the F5L - "L" in honor of its creator."  From the first The Legendary Bluegrass Collection Gibson Catalog reads
"The F5-L designated "L" for Lloyd Loar, Gibson's acoustic engineer who inspected and signed each Master model instrument in 1923 and 1924." (well he did sign a few in 1922) Can't change history.

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## oldwest

While I grew up in the region, I only returned 12 years ago, and in any event I spent the 80s and 90s on things other than music (making a living can be a demanding taskmaster).  I learned about Bruce Weber and learned bits and pieces of the Gibson/Flatiron connection here in Montana, but didn't know anything about Steve Carlson.

I of course stop at Music Villa in Bozeman to sample their instruments anytime I'm passing through.  Earlier this year I bought the beautiful little 1962 Martin 5-16 Terz guitar that is listed in my signature block.  (My wife actually was the one who fell in love with its size and feel, but I have fallen just as much in love with it and probably play it more than she does!)

Anyway, I was passing through Bozeman a couple of weeks ago and was guitar shopping again, and Blaise, the acoustic manager dropped in to see how I was doing.  When I mentioned that I had bought that little Terz guitar on our last visit, he asked me if they had told me whose guitar it was (they were selling it on consignment).  They hadn't, so he told me that it was Steve Carlson who was the seller.  My blank look gave me away as the ignorant guy that I was, and he briefly explained that he was the guy who basically started it all for acoustic instrument making in Montana with Flatiron.

Which is what led me to this thread -- which has to be one of the best and most interesting threads I have read on Mandolin Cafe.  Steve, if you ever read this, know that your little 5-16 has about as appreciative a new home as it could possibly have!

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## Elb2000

I greatly enjoy playing my 1984 A5-1

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## pickinNgrinnin

Haven't been here in some time and just found this thread. Very cool! Love the info from Steve Carlson. Makes me miss my Flatirons.

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## BradleyCharles

> Haven't been here in some time and just found this thread. Very cool! Love the info from Steve Carlson. Makes me miss my Flatirons.



Hi Steve, I just bought an Octave Mandolin or 3M Irish Bouzouki. #8205093
It is not here yet hopefully next week. MIght you have signed this one? Looking to get my cowboy celtic on. Went to MSU in 1992, took the horseshoeing course with Tom Wolfe. What fun.
cheers,
Bradley Bischoff

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## bradlaird

> Question for you. Don't you have an original 'Carved Top Brochure'? It does cover some of this and may be of interest.


I recently found my copy. Here it is: http://www.bradleylaird.com/blog-art...tiron-bro.html

This thread is a good one and solves many puzzling mysteries. Thanks, Steve!

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BillG, 

fatt-dad, 

hank

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## Big Ed

Steve:  I have 1993 F5 Custom made in Custom shop with Verzi. Pretty sure you signed it.
Don't thing there are many later vintage Gibson mandolins with the Verzi.

Ed

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## Mandopickinbirder

Hi Atetone. I recently bought the 1984 Flatiron A-5 serial number 84110434. I bought it from a fella named Jim. Did you recently get rid of that mando? Were you the original owner? If not do you know who was? Any information about this mandolin would be very appreciated. Thanks!

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## Br1ck

> I left Gibson at the end of 1993. Hope that helps.
> 
> Steve Carlson


But can we trust this source? I can't remember back that far.

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## V70416

I can remember back that far;at least when it comes to the day I got my Steve P. Carlson-signed Gibson Monroe Model
#74 with varnish finish. Label dated March15,1993.(received by me March31,1993) Ordered it from Ciderville Music in Powell,Tenn. 
I still have the receipts and all the paperwork. 

I didn't get to play #74 very much the first year or so because I sent it back to Montana twice for finish problems. Little
bubbly,white fingerprints kept...surfacing from the first two finish applications. 3rd time finish was the charm.  No problems with finish
for 25 years or so.

Sensing my frustration when I sent it back the second time,I think it was The Bruce who asked me what could be done to
 make me a happy camper. At that time I was already used to an abbreviated,radiused 'board and fat frets;so,I asked for those 
features and got them! They kicked in a genuine pearl trussrod cover. 

Several nice mandos(Gilchrists,Nugget,Red Diamonds) have come and gone since then but #74 remains my main player and favorite mandolin of all.
Not that the other mandos weren't nice;the Monroe just fit me better and sounds best to me.

Not too long ago David Harvey leveled those Bush-sized frets,scooped the already abbreviated board at the 19th,and
installed silver Waverly machines. 

Thank you,Mr. Carlson, for a great mandolin.

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## allenhopkins

> ...I'm not aware of signed pancakes....


Catching up on a seven-year-old post, I own a Gibson A-N Custom "pancake" that Steve C signed in 1986.

A-3 type peghead inlay, gold hardware, highly figured maple back & sides, "tobacco sunburst" finish.  Supposedly made for NH Gibson dealer Lou Catello, who signed the back next to the label, with a felt-tip pen.

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## ccravens

Joining in the love for my A Jr.

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