# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  Indian mandolin

## Larry S Sherman

Okay...I know that there's controversy about if this is a child's guitar or mandolin (please, let's not go there). 

I may be heading to India in a couple of months and was wondering if anyone knows where I might track down one of these instruments to bring back.



It seems like it would be reasonable to convert it to five strings and tune it in fifths.

Anyone know the maker, or where in India to look? I'll be in the South, and might be staying a few weeks to a month.

Thanks!

Larry

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## delsbrother

In many photos Srinivas' has a stick-on logo (much like a car emblem) that reads, "Shamax." It was stuck on the upper treble "bout" - I call it the Rhino horn. But in many other photos, including the ones above, it is missing. I won one of these in an eBay auction awhile back, but it did not have the emblem, nor did it have any other markings. The pickup on mine was also a generic (six polepiece) humbucker. The mandolin arrived in several pieces, and I sent it back. It was NOT a well made instrument.

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## Larry S Sherman

I tried googling "Shamax" but came up empty. Thanks for the info!

Larry

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## glauber

I _was_ going to suggest eBay! 

There are small-sized electric guitars available in the US.

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## mrmando

Sapthaswara Musicals in Chennai (formerly Madras) makes a very similar instrument. Contact info:

Sapthaswara Musicals
165, R.H Road, Opp. Sanskrit College and Anjaneya Temple,
Mylapore, Madras - 600 004.
Tel/ Fax : 2499 32 94. Tel : 2499 64 98.
Email : veenai@sapthaswara.com 

Last time I went to see Srinivas play, there was an Indian fellow attending the show who had just gotten a similar instrument, but I don't know exactly where he got it. 

Singh (Mumbai) and Givson (Kolkata) are other Indian builders of e-mandos, although those are more conventional 8-string instruments. You could also try:

John Pereira
Peter Pereira Instruments
Near St. John the Baptist High School
Thane West 400 601
Mumbai, India
Phone: 91-22-5343314

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## delsbrother

I think Srinivas has a school there too. If you're in the area you should try to visit - I'm very curious to know how students are taught there.

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## Larry S Sherman

Wow...great info!

I'll try to find out exactly where I'll be and if any places mentioned are nearby. Maybe I can arrange something beforehand.

Glauber-I don't think that I'd be pursuing this if I wasn't going to be in India. But I like having some kind of mandolin mission to accomplish besides just business, although I'm sure there will be plenty to keep me busy there. 

And from what I've heard Southern India in April is really hot and humid...

Thanks everyone for the help. 

Larry

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## mrmando

The "Shrinivas Institute of World Musique" is in Chennai, where Srinivas lives. In my cursory Web search I couldn't find anything useful like an address or phone number. It would be cool to visit if you're allowed to. His students all appear to play copies of his instrument, so if they're not getting them from Sapthaswara there must be another source in Chennai. 

Other possibly useful sites:

http://www.rsjonline.com/music/musicstore.asp
This is a site focused mostly on rock and pop music, but it does list some more music stores.

http://www.indiamusicinfo.com/
Potentially useful, although so far I haven't found any actual listings for shops or builders.

Srinivas' brother, Rajesh, appears to be the more approachable of the pair. I was supposed to do an interview at the last concert I attended, but the promoter wouldn't let me. Srinivas does do interviews with the Western press (the Toronto and Houston papers both talked to him); I just got stuck with a promoter who didn't understand publicity.

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## mrmando

BTW, if you look very carefully at the first photo in this thread (hosted by me, thanks) you'll see that the nut is spaced for 5 strings and the lowest tuner on the bass side of the headstock just isn't being used. Maybe these are made with 3-on-a-strip guitar machines because the makers don't want to bother with individual tuners? I dunno. Point is that you don't have to "convert" the instrument to 5-string. Just drop some superglue in that unused tuner to keep it from rattling. Srinivas uses an open tuning (CGCGC) but you can certainly go straight 5ths if you want. 

I have actually sold Emando.com strings to a guy in Chennai (Suraj Kumar) who has taken up the Carnatic mandolin. I'm not sure if he is one of Srinivas' pupils or not, but he has an interesting blog on which he talks about his instrument and posts some recordings he has made. In fact, in this post he reveals that he bought his mandolin from a guy who used to build for Srinivas, and he gives the builder's phone number and e-mail address! 

According to Suraj, this builder takes about 4 weeks to fill an order. So if you find out that you'll be in Chennai, you could order a custom-built instrument in advance. Cool, eh?

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## glauber

> Glauber-I don't think that I'd be pursuing this if I wasn't going to be in India. But I like having some kind of mandolin mission to accomplish besides just business, although I'm sure there will be plenty to keep me busy there.


Larry, it sounds like a fun idea for a quest. Take some pictures, if you can!

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## Larry S Sherman

Yeah, it's an amazing out-of-the-blue opportunity. The camera is coming for sure. 

Now only if they would send me to Brasil....

Larry

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## glauber

If they send you to Brazil in 2 weeks, you'll meet me there!

I'm plotting getting one of the cheaper Giannini bandolins to play when i'm there. If my brother can't find one, it'll be flute time (which wouldn't be bad either, i need some flute time).

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## Larry S Sherman

I was wondering if you had taken your trip yet (I remember an earlier post). Have a great time! Maybe you can find a nice Caviquino?

I thought that Will Patton was going there too sometime soon with Estrela do Norte. I'd love to see him playing with the locals.

Also, Marilyn Mair is going in February for 3 months. Here's what she said in her latest email newsletter: "_BRASIL ~ I'm going soon & staying long. Here's a 
request for any of you who live in Brasil, have any 
contacts in Brasil that I could meet, know anything 
about Brasil that I should know, etc., to please 
email me. I'm leaving at the end of February, and 
will be based in Rio for 3 months so there'll be 
lots of opportunity to travel & meet people- the 
greatest joy of travel. I don't know nearly enough 
people there yet, so any help is truly appreciated- 
thanks!_

If you can find a source for "Vocabulário do Choro: Estudos & Composições" while your there please post it. It looks like an interesting book. Here's a description: "_Among the genres that make up the Brazilian instrumental tradition, choro, or chorinho, demonstrates the greatest strength for creative transformation. In Portuguese and English, the author highlights rhythmic, harmonic and melodic aspects of the choro. The approximately 200 exercises are melodic fragments, originated in scales, arpeggios,..._ 

It's okay to highjack my own thread...right?

Larry

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## glauber

We were going on July 2006 but had to postpone to January 2007. Do you know the publisher or author for the Vocabulário do Choro?

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## mandroid

I recall a classical indian string instrument with a smooth metal surface on the 'fretboard'.
it was a lot longer scale , but it, metal fretless neck face, would , perhaps be an interesting way to get at quarter tones  of non western scales .

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## Larry S Sherman

> Do you know the publisher or author for the Vocabulário do Choro?


The author is Mario Séve, who I have seen listed as both a choro sax and flute player, but seems most famous as a sax player. There is a bilingual edition (Portuguese/English). The book came out in 1999, published by Lumiar (Almir Chediak). He has written other books as well.



More info on his band here.

Larry

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## Larry S Sherman

Here he is on the flute...

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## glauber

Cool, that looks like a piccolo.

Almir Chediak published a buzillion good music books before dying tragically in 2003. He was a guitar player.

Mario Seve is a member of Nó em Pingo D'Água, one of the best instrumental bands in Brazil (i know this is saying a lot). Their mandolin player is Rodrigo Lessa. The name means "to tie a waterdrop in a knot"; in Brazil this means to have uncommon ability (or to over-complicate things).

I'll look for it.

Lumiar site shows the book but has Internet ordering in Portuguese only. The book costs R$44, so about US$20.

Found it here (Luso-Brazilian Books). I haven't bought from these guys yet, but they were well recommended. This is $26 but it's the English/Portuguese bilingual version. Go for it! *[Caveat: see below]*

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## Larry S Sherman

> Found it here (Luso-Brazilian Books). I haven't bought from these guys yet, but they were well recommended. This is $26 but it's the English/Portuguese bilingual version. Go for it!


They may have been highly recommended at one time, but I specifically have had a terrible time with them. My Choro book order (which included Vocabulário do Choro) still hasn't shipped, and I ordered it in July 2006.

After my first inquiry on my order they snapped at me that it takes time to get books from Brazil, so I was patient. Then upon later inquiries I got lines like "it will ship in the next 2 weeks", then "we cleared up an issue with the supplier", "will ship next week", ...blah blah blah.

It seems to me that they have a catalog of books but no inventory. Look at their inventory for the items and everything is "-5" or "-3". They no longer respond to my emails, order updates, and have never been there when I have called. I recommend that everyone stay away from them.

I'm placing an order soon with these guys, who seem to have a similar catalog but with real-time inventory.

Larry

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## glauber

OK, i'll take the Luso-Brazilian people out of my links... I've ordered from the other site you mention (Brasmus), and it took forever (6 weeks?), but arrived. I think they used surface mail.

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## Larry S Sherman

Ted made a funny comment about LusoBraz in an older thread...

"...I've picked them up from Lusobraz.com, but the wait from the latter is painfully slow. I think they come by rowboat or carrier pigeon."

Larry

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## mrmando

More Web-searching on U Srinivas turned up what purports to be contact information:

Padmashri U Shrinivas
Maruthi Nilayam
12-A Venkateswara Street
Dhanalakshmi Colony
Vadapalani, Chennai 600026
INDIA
Tel : +91 44 2362 2696, 2362 1421
Fax : +91 44 2362 1421
Email : ramanaa@mandolinshrinivas.org
Website:www.mandolinshrinivas.org

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## sreekrishnan

I am new to this forum and have been looking at threads to see if I can use the Gold Tone 5 string electric mandolin GME 5 to play the carnatic music ?

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## mrmando

It might work. The main issue is tuning. I don't know the correct Carnatic terms, but in Western terms the tuning is CGCGC. Srinivas uses a small bowl of vegetable oil to lubricate the fingertips on his left hand when he's playing ... it helps him execute the gamakas cleanly. 

It appears to me that the fretboard on Srinivas' instrument is just a little wider than usual. I don't know how the width of the GoldTone fretboard would compare. 

We have one Cafe member, Aravind Bhargav, who is a student of Srinivas and might be able to give you some more advice.

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## sreekrishnan

Thank You. I called the dealer in chennai India who makes the Tulsi mandolin that most of the carnatic musicians play with. Not sure about the quality of the instrument. It costs around $100 usd with an additional $100 for shipping.  I will wait for Aravind Bhargav to offer some advice.

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## mrmando

Try looking up Aravind's user profile and sending him a private message. If you can get a Tulsi sent to the United States for only $200, that seems like a pretty good deal to me. It's about the same price as the GoldTone, or a little less. 

I've heard of Carnatic singing teachers in the U.S.; is there anyone here teaching Carnatic mandolin? 

Srinivas is coming to Portland, Oregon in May, so watch out for other possible tour dates.

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## sreekrishnan

Sure thanks. I am not aware of anyone in US teaching carnatic mandolin, but did find out that I can get someone to teach me thru skype from India. One of my buddies is learning carnatic violin thru skype for past few years and have made significant progress

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## jmp

Srinivas pretty much invented carnatic mandolin not that long ago in the scheme of things, so I don't think there is critical mass out there for carnatic mandolin teachers yet.  However since it is basically a vocal tradition that can be transferred to musical instruments such as tabla, sitar, etc., and since there are a number of carnatic music schools and music teachers around, it is possible to learn the traditional musical vocabulary and realize it via mandolin, as indeed Srinivas did.  What is exciting is that the "how to" for carnatic mandolin is still being invented.

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## Larry S Sherman

Aravind is very active on Facebook...might be best to look for him there. He's a great guy.

Larry

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## Jim Nollman

I'm in India until march first, and I fly home out of chennai. And I made the mistake that I could live without a mandolin for six weeks, since there was no way I'd travel here with any of my own instruments. I should have bought a Kay or some such inexpensive instrument. I can feel my muscle memory dwindling along with my callouses.

I've stepped into every instrument store I've seen on my journey. Most of the shop keepers know what a mandolin is, and one even mentioned Srinavas, but I have not seen any mandolins for sale yet. If I find the school mentioned here, I'll report back.

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Spruce

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## mrmando

Hi Jim! I don't know about the rest of India; it seems Chennai would be the place to find a mandolin if you're going to find one. Maybe Aravind can help you out as well. Check here for contact info for Tulsi Venkobasha, who makes Carnatic 5-strings similar to the one Srinivas uses: 

http://www.emando.com/builders_active/Madras.htm

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## warh0rn

There is one like it on eBay. "Carnatic mandolin"

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## delsbrother

Weren't some of the pix in that ad taken directly from the Cafe discussions?

In any case, if it's similar to the one I purchased (and returned) off of eBay it really isn't anything special - and certainly not $500-special. YMMV

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## Jim Nollman

The most interesting instrument I've seen on my trip, so far, is a mandolin sized sitar.

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## vic-victor

I had one made by Lahore House. Fairly loud mandolin of average quality. It was a proper "Indian mandolin". Not just mandolin that was made in India, but a mandolin family instrument in between of mandolin and mandola in size. Tuned differently. I tried to tune it GDAE, but strings broke, so had to tune it lower.

http://www.lmhindia.com/str_instrument/index.htm

My mando was an old stock branded St. Louis in black paint on a soundoard. But it was also bearing Lahore House label inside. Now they brand their mandolins "Givson". Ha ha, smart marketing, they think. I've recently seen a pic of reasonably attractive emando under that brand, probably made by the same mob.

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## delsbrother

Considering the popularity of U. Srinivas in India (certainly on par with the best mandolin players in the US), it's surprising to me how few Indian mandolins there are - at judging by their scarcity online. Though I suppose you could say there aren't many US-made sitars around either.

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## Eddie Sheehy

I may be going to Chennai on business later this year... thanks for the info above.

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## sreekrishnan

I ordered the carnatic mandolin from Chennai from Sapthaswara Musicals. 

The address is 

Mylapore Showroom

No :165, R.H Road,
Opp. Sanskrit College and Anjaneya Temple,
Mylapore, Madras - 600 004.

Tel : +91-44-2499 64 98 / 4214 64 98.
Fax : +91-44-2498 64 98.

Email : saptaswaramusicals@gmail.com

website : http://www.saptaswara.in

Will get it by this week.

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## sreekrishnan

The maker is Tulsi. I called Tulsi's Madras Musicals and heard that they opened another showroom Crimson Musicals near Anna Flyover. Shipping was a problem for them and the only other place that was ready to ship was Sapthaswara Musicals. There was not much price difference between them

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## Jim Nollman

Just returned from India. I heard lots of carnatic music on fiddle and flute, but none on mandolin. In Mysore, I visited three music stores, one of which had two mandolins by the Givson company. They were nothing i wanted to buy, or even try out. 

In Chennai i visited a very large music store that stocked the same kind of gear you find in any store in the States, including keyboards, sound systems, and Fender and Gibson knockoffs. I saw one of those mandolins with the "rhino horn" upper bout. It had been there quite a while, was not in tune, and once again, it didn't interest me very much. 

I spent so much time in music stores, mostly trying to locate a Sarangi, which is an ancient north Indian bowed instrument with 26 strings. I was ready to buy. Surprisingly (for me at least), i couldn't find one anywhere, and some of the music store people didn't even know what i was talking about. It seemed a bit like visiting a large US store looking for a psaltery or a krumhorn. I was told that I'd do much better looking in a few classical instrument stores in Mumbai or Delhi. 

The Indian stringed instrument you see most often in the stores, even more often than sitars (which were low quality in all the stores i visited) , are veenas. They are generally gorgeous with double bowls, and a deep whiny tone.

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## mrmando

My friend Sue went to Chennai recently and took a lesson from Srinivas! 

I was hunting around recently and came up with some old LP covers that show the evolution of Srinivas' instrument: 


Here you can see he's playing a conventional 8-string electric mandolin that still has 8 tuners on it, although it appears that he's not using the top 2 tuners. 


A little older here -- same instrument but he's removed those top 2 tuners altogether. 


A little older still -- now with a Sahmax. It's a copy of the previous instrument except for the shortened headstock, with room for only 6 tuners. And he's used an instrument like this one more or less ever since.

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Larry S Sherman

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## Fretbear

Those are born musicians' fingers....

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