# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Glaring Void Of Bluegrass Music In Branson...

## drbluegrass

...Why is this? Yes, I know there is (very) occasional BG music at Silver Dollar City. For example, their Bluegrass And Barbeque event over Memorial Day weekend. But what about the other 95% of the year? Branson seems like the _perfect_ venue with the _perfect_ demographic for a LOT more BG music. You would think there would be a club/s offering BG music full time, year around. It just seems like such a glaring and obvious void. What say you?


Tom

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## Scott Tichenor

I can sum the correct answer up in one character:

$

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## Mike Snyder

Better look into the Peterson family band. One show is a quantum leap over what bluegrass in Branson used to be. Not that I'd spend a dime in the schock-glitz capital of the mid-west. Some shows play some quasi-bgrass, I'm told, but you can bet that it's be packaged in the same smarmy shobiz plastic way it has been for decades. Compton Ridge campground used to have a fiddlers convention, there's the bgrass and BBQ festival and Harrisonn Ar. is having a great fiddlers convention March 22,23,24 which I never miss.

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## Mike Bunting

Why would bluegrass want to be in Branson?

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## drbluegrass

> Why would bluegrass want to be in Branson?



 Well...why wouldn't it? Educate me...seriously, maybe I'm being naive? I live about 5 hours to the north, just across the Iowa line. To me, it seems like there is a huge need to be addressed. 
Glitz or no, Branson is a great place to vacation with all the outdoor activities, world class fishing, boating, hunting, hiking, etc. I don't care for a lot of the glitz theaters either, but a lot of the same people who enjoy the glitz also really like BG music.
And, Scott, I'm not sure what you mean by "$"? Do you mean there isn't money in it for BG bands? I'm talking about bringing in "big name" BG groups through an agency on a regular basis with a local opening act...perhaps once a month or even once a week in an appropriately sized venue. Like I said, maybe I'm naive, but it just seems like a no brainer to me. I think there would be room for both local and "name" acts. If not Branson (in the Midwest) on a regular basis, then where? The Southeast has BG venues  galore. Why not the (lower) Midwest? Seems like a natural fit to me. But then...I like liver and onions.


Tom

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## MikeEdgerton

I could see a few of the larger acts buying a theater and basing themselves in Branson but if they haven't done it by now, I doubt they are going to. I mean, if the late Boxcar Willie could make it in Branson then I would think Rhonda Vincent could make it in Branson. I'm thinking you have to want to be there.

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## journeybear

You do realize there is probably no one here who has what it takes to start up a theater devoted to bluegrass in Branson and keep it afloat long enough for it to catch on. So anything anyone says about this subject will be speculation. Including my opinion. But yes, I agree with you - I would think there is room and a market for a venue devoted to bluegrass in Branson, and it is a glaring and obvious void. Unless there is a an insurmountable gap between fans of country and bluegrass, it does seem reasonable that with all the people with all that money going there every day of the year, SOME of them would be interested in hearing some bluegrass. I think a venue that is not so glitzy would be a welcome alternative to all the razzle-dazzle. Seems like a no-brainer to me - but as I said, or implied, what do I know?  :Smile:   The only thing I can think of is there may not be any big name band willing to set up residency there - though I doubt that is required. I mean, as much as it is customary for bluegrass bands to tour the country to bring their music to their fans, one would think there would be enough willing to spend a week or two in the Country Music Capitol of the World (or however they call themselves) and let the fans come to  them. Heck, the notion of spending a week's vacation in beautiful Missouri and catching Rhonda Vincent of whomever a couple-few times while there sounds downright appealing. But if they have to be based there most of the year, that is probably going to be a deal-breaker. 

Well, I hope you find a backer and can turn this into a real happening place. And if you do, remember I was on your side and comp me.  :Smile:

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## drbluegrass

> Well, I hope you find a backer and can turn this into a real happening place.



Er, uh, well, uh...ANY BACKERS OUT THERE???  :Confused: 


Tom

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## Willie Poole

About three years ago I was talking to some of the "Boys" in the Bluegrass Band called "Gold Wing" and they said they had plans to build a theater and put on shows in Branson...As yet I haven`t seen anything that resembles that in Branson....I do know that some of the theaters that were in the process of being built were closed down due to no money to pay the builders....Most of the mainstays there are performers that don`t want to travel all over the country now days so they set up shop at a central location, also some of the performers that tried staying put in one place at Branson have changed their minds and are back to touring part of the year and leasing out there buildings....

   I believe that a lot of the theaters could offer bluegrass as a side line a few times just to see how it would go over, The TV channel RFD-TV has a theater there now and they have put on some bluegrass bands within the last 1-1/2 years, some were Ronnie Reno, Cumberland Highlanders....

    Maybe start a petition to get some brought in....

    Willie

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## TonyP

It does make you wonder. But around here the folks that like country HATE Bluegrass. I mean with a passion. But it's interesting that the folks who like classic country don't hate Bluegrass and for the most part don't care for what passes for country now. So I could see how it would be problem. And for me, I don't like Las Vegas so I'd probably not like Branson, it's all so confusing.

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## Mandobart

If you're ever in Branson you're close enough to somewhere that Big Smith is playing.  Check them out.  You'll be glad to be out of Branson and listening to the real thing.

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## Mike Bunting

Doesn't Branson have the reputation as a place where fading "country" bands go to die?

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## Ivan Kelsall

You guys in the US seem to go in for a multiplicity of places with the same name,so _which Branson_ did Bill Monroe compose his tune "Dancin' in Branson" about ?,
                                             Ivan

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## Mike Bunting

The album I have lists the tune as Dancin' in Brancin'. I thought that maybe it was a typo for Dancin' 'n' Prancin'.

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## journeybear

According to this site, there are plenty of acts appearing there as a limited engagement - as differentiated from a residency. So someone is booking touring performers. Stands to reason someone could be convinced it is worthwhile to do the same for bluegrass. Didn't see any, BTW.  :Frown:  Looking at what are the most popular shows I can see why this might be an uphill struggle of Sisyphean proportions. And according to this site, which features 169 entertainment possibilities - well, I'll just say it seems the emphasis here is on quantity, not quality. BTW, I got the billing wrong earlier - it's the "Live Music Show Capital of the World," so that ain't even just country. Looks like when you go to Branson you have to check your good taste with your gun before you enter.  :Wink: 

Ivan - I am reasonably certain Big Mon was NOT talking about this Branson.  :Smile:

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## Charlieshafer

Scott's observation of "$" was dead on, unfortunately. The costs required to run a venue are huge, even in profitable times, and it takes just one slip-up to wreck the cash flow. There aren't enough bluegrass fans to fund that kind of enterprise and keep it going on a night-in-night-out basis over the course of years. It's not a question of liking or not liking bluegrass, it's a question of how many busloads of folks will show up at the door every day, every night, 365 days a year. You need a lot of buses to make it work.

And yes, fading country stars work great for that. The casinos up here book roughly 80% of their shows with fading rock stars, fragments of bands, fragments of pop stars, nostalgic pop heroes from 30-50 years ago, as they're the big money makers. 

This doesn't bother me in the least; in fact I'm glad the music I enjoy is such a small niche that the money guys won't come around and mess with it.

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## drbluegrass

I'm not necessarily talking about big theaters as venues. Perhaps smaller venues that would provide for a less costly, more intimate setting, yet large enough to bring in enough numbers to pay the bills.
Obviously, I don't know squat about the business end of BG music, but it just seems to me that Branson and BG fans could benefit tremendously from a smaller-ish BG oriented venue sort of on the order of a Station Inn but maybe a little larger. I know, I know, The Station Inn is a well established, BG promoting, venue...arguably the most famous BG club in the world. But I do think most country folk/fans do like BG music. And I'm talking fans of real deal country music, not the country influenced rock and roll of today that is being passed off as "country music". Anyway, Branson (to me anyway), has the very real potential to be a true stronghold of BG music. Even if we're talking about a small venue with local acts and an occasional "big name".
I was in Branson over the Labor Day holiday last Fall and saw Cody Shuler and Pine Mountain Railroad and The Isaacs. Cody performed 2 shows and The Isaacs 1 show. They were all completely packed. Not sure, but I think The Isaacs sold out. This was in Silver Dollar City. Even the venues with small stages and local acts such as The Petersons were full up. Not sure if that's an indication of what other BG acts would bring in but I think it's safe to say there is a definite need that is not being met.
I guess I could see myself taking a week to go to Branson, do some fishing at Lake Taneycomo, Table Rock Lake, Bull Shoals, etc., do some shopping, eat out, and go see a/some BG acts. Too bad the first thing many people think of when you mention Branson are the "glitz theaters". The area has so much more than that to offer. Add some BG and you have a pretty darn nice vacation spot. My 2 cents anyway.


Tom

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## MikeEdgerton

I just Googled Bluegrass in Branson. It's kind of amazing what popped up. This is just one of them. 

*Bluegrass and BBQ*

Anybody looking for Bluegrass in Branson might want to just Google it. It appears that it is there already.

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## drbluegrass

Mike,


Respectfully, read my initial post. I mentioned the Bluegrass And Barbeque fest at Silver Dollar City. It only spans a very short time. If you want to see a "name" BG group any other time of the year you pretty much have to go to a BG fest somewhere else. Except for a very occasional local group at Silver Dollar City you won't find it in the Branson area. And, Branson being such a country music oriented environment, you would think BG might have a niche there. It doesn't. BG fans are basically thrown a bone. And that's about it. As a BG musician, there seems to me to be a tremendous amount of undeveloped potential for BG music in the Branson area. I'm being redundant but...I mean, am I the only one here to see this? Maybe there aren't that many BG musicians on this forum? I'm simply dumfounded by the Branson area being so devoid of BG music. But, what the heck do I know about it?


Tom

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## JeffD

> Well...why wouldn't it? Educate me...seriously, maybe I'm being naive?


Ohh man. How do I say this...

Bluegrass is a niche music which most people don't like. 

Branson is going after the the mainstream, (where most of the money is), without scaring folks with music perceived to be too esoteric.

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## drbluegrass

> Ohh man. How do I say this...
> 
> Bluegrass is a niche music which most people don't like. 
> 
> Branson is going after the the mainstream, (where most of the money is), without scaring folks with music perceived to be too esoteric.



Jeff, I think maybe I _am_ being naive, LOL. It just seems like Branson would be a "logical" place to promote BG music. I think I'm beginning to understand.


Tom

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## jamann

Tom, I'm with you regarding Bluegrass in Branson. I live in the surrounding Branson area and would love to see more bluegrass in our area. Maybe not right in Branson but in the surrounding area, say Branson West, Reeds Spring, Kimberling City. Most locals avoid Branson with all it's traffic, etc. and I think a venue that catered to the local community would be very positive. A small venue that has local acts along with big name acts. Something similar to Station Inn would be great. I have been seeing more interest in bluegrass the last few years. Every other Saturday night there's a free bluegrass show put on by the local businesses in Kimberling City (small Table Rock lakeside town near Branson). So far it's only been one local act Missouri Boatride (with Dean Webb, mandolin player from the original Dillards) playing there and it always draws a big crowd. In the warmer months they play outside on a old Chevy flat bed truck. I'd love to see this grow into something bigger. Not so sure it would be packed though if they charged admission. I'm sure money is the biggest issue as to why there isn't more bluegrass in our area. It's a tough one to crack. Anyway I've thought about it as you have and would love to see it catch on more.

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## Marty Henrickson

I woke up in the middle of the night a few years ago with what I thought was a brilliant idea to have a TV network that would equate to "Bluegrass TV" (though I was going to think of a much more clever name).  The network would feature coverage of major festivals around the country, along with some regionally popular (yet little-known) music events, traditional music-related movies and concert DVD's, occasional musician interview specials, and maybe even some type of instructional show.  I'm sure that my network would've had dozens of subscribers!

If there is any leftover cash from the Branson Bluegrass Theater project, this is a great opportunity for someone to get in on the ground floor of this potential goldmine!

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...  I'm sure that my network would've had dozens of subscribers!..


And that pretty much sums it up. I like bluegrass music. I go to bluegrass festivals but I go mainly to jam not to hear the acts on the stage.

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## Beanzy

From what I'm reading Branson has the BG&BBQ and if that were really successful the commercially astute promters surely wouldn't be long developing something off the back of that. So the first, least risk, option would be to promote the heck out of that to the extent where a small spin-off concert series became too good a chance to miss. Maybe run-up or follow-up concert evenings around the existing event.

If it's not happening it could indicate something about the BG&BBQ event needs tweaking first.

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## barney 59

John Mckuen was spending some time in Branson a few years back. Ronnie Reno does spend time there and is tied into Stan Hitchcock and the RFD-TV stuff that comes out of there. You would think that if someone thought that there was a buck to be made with a Bluegrass Venue it would be being done. Maybe the people that are behind this resort consider bluegrass people a "bad element" --I mean, we do consort with banjo players.

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## MikeEdgerton

It's also interesting that someone in Branson has owned the domain name www.bransonbluegrass.com for years.

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## JeffD

> It's also interesting that someone in Branson has owned the domain name www.bransonbluegrass.com for years.


Yea, and he makes money by threatening to do something with it.   :Smile:

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## allenhopkins

Excuse my general ignorance, but isn't the Branson "SOP" that artists build their own venues, which then feature each artist's performances, along with guests etc.?

Is there any bluegrass group that could afford to build its own theater, and then tie itself down to playing at that single venue for most of the year?  I mean, AKUS, Rhonda Vincent, Ricky Skaggs, McCoury, bands at that level probably do a whole lot better touring, playing the Opry, perhaps working out of Nashville.

Again, there may be a number of Branson venues which feature a schedule of touring groups, but my understanding is that Branson performers own most of the theaters.  Please set me straight if I'm in error.

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## LoneStarMandolin

> I'm not necessarily talking about big theaters as venues. Perhaps smaller venues that would provide for a less costly, more intimate setting, yet large enough to bring in enough numbers to pay the bills.
> Obviously, I don't know squat about the business end of BG music, but it just seems to me that Branson and BG fans could benefit tremendously from a smaller-ish BG oriented venue sort of on the *order of a Station Inn* but maybe a little larger. I know, I know, The Station Inn is a well established, BG promoting, venue...arguably the most famous BG club in the world.


maybe I'm just as "out of it" as the rest of you but I think it's a genius idea -- especially building a replica of the Station Inn - and I think it'd work.  It could become a "must stop" on any tour by any of the big bands and if you worked it right you could have a big name band most weeks out of the year (I'd think).  yes, you'd probably need to work in some old style country music and maybe let a fiddler in (!) but if you built a venue that promoted itself as "good old fashioned music" and "pickin' and grinnin'" I think it'd work and work big.  but I don't know "the biz" and sure don't know how to make money in bluegrass music.

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## Willie Poole

I think a lot of the theaters are owned by multiple people and use a stars name to draw attendance...Mo Bandy has a theater and he is touring quite a bit still....The last time I was there there was theater being built FOR Johnny cash and it fell through, Johnny didn`t put one penny into having it built or so I heard...The company building it went bankrupt....maybe someone else pick it up and finished it....

   Someone might get the idea to hold a whole week of bluegrass  in one of the theaters  and see if people respond to it....

    Those Stan Hitchcock shows are as old as I am, well not quite, but almost....

    Willie

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## Bernie Daniel

> Doesn't Branson have the reputation as a place where fading "country" bands go to die?


No, I don't certainly would not think that.  Some of the theaters there have been there for years and the fourth generation pickers are on stage.  The Presleys' are a good example.  They are not dying.  I might mention that the Presleys usually incorporate a little bluegrass into every show -- they can pick it!

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## Bernie Daniel

> Excuse my general ignorance, but isn't the Branson "SOP" that artists build their own venues, which then feature each artist's performances, along with guests etc.?
> 
> Is there any bluegrass group that could afford to build its own theater, and then tie itself down to playing at that single venue for most of the year?  I mean, AKUS, Rhonda Vincent, Ricky Skaggs, McCoury, bands at that level probably do a whole lot better touring, playing the Opry, perhaps working out of Nashville.
> 
> Again, there may be a number of Branson venues which feature a schedule of touring groups, but my understanding is that Branson performers own most of the theaters.  Please set me straight if I'm in error.


I think that is generally right.  But one might think that some organization acting with a broader vision might consider bringing together a number of major BG bands along with organizations like IBMA and the IBM and others to, in turn, attempt to corner some high rollers for funding and build a theater that uses bluegrass as its theme and where multiple bands could spend a few weeks each year?  Trading off to another band then another?   I could imagine many visitors willing to spend at least one night of their stay being entertained by a BG group even if their main focus is more on Branson-style country?

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## MikeEdgerton

I'm shocked that all those business type folks in Branson haven't figured out that there's a ton of money to be made here. Several years ago a friend of mine came into a large amount of money and decided that what the town he lived in needed was a 24 hour a day Star Trek station on cable. I was shocked when he lost every dime he had trying to make it happen. There really are a lot of Star Trek fans, heck they even have conventions every year. Maybe I wasn't really shocked.  :Cool:

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## JeffD

> I could imagine many visitors willing to spend at least one night of their stay being entertained by a BG group even if their main focus is more on Branson-style country?


Hundreds of them.

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## Bernie Daniel

> I'm shocked that all those business type folks in Branson haven't figured out that there's a ton of money to be made here. Several years ago a friend of mine came into a large amount of money and decided that what the town he lived in needed was a 24 hour a day Star Trek station on cable. I was shocked when he lost every dime he had trying to make it happen. There really are a lot of Star Trek fans, heck they even have conventions every year. Maybe I wasn't really shocked.


Yeah I could have told him that -- he should have started RFD TV instead.  

Maybe its been examined as an opportunity already and maybe not I don't know.  

We were there years ago when it was not as big as now --but none of the crowds in the theaters were as large as the crowd for the Dillards that we attended the next day at the theme park.  I can't even remember the name of it now.

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## journeybear

I would be really surprised if a money-making opportunity for Branson hadn't been examined, thoroughly. And if a venue devoted to bluegrass doesn't exist, the numbers must not be right - especially considering how many venues there are, and how many of which present, um, not exactly high quality entertainment. It does seem possible for theaters to operate there even without presenting big name acts. But as I said, we don't know why there isn't such a place, nor will we, not being privy to such number-crunching - but that won't stop us from speculating.  :Wink: 

Speaking of which ... the notion of a theater being started up around several top name bluegrass acts, each of which commits to spending  a few weeks a year there in some kind of rotation, with the rest of the slots assigned to lesser known acts but still with some drawing power, has a lot of appeal, and sounds like a logical premise. There must be more to this than we know, or else it would have been done. One would like to think so, anyway.  :Confused:

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## Charlieshafer

> Speaking of which ... the notion of a theater being started up around several top name bluegrass acts, each of which commits to spending  a few weeks a year there in some kind of rotation, with the rest of the slots assigned to lesser known acts but still with some drawing power, has a lot of appeal, and sounds like a logical premise. There must be more to this than we know, or else it would have been done. One would like to think so, anyway.


Outside of the size of the bluegrass fan base as opposed to the Tony Orlando fan base is that the numbers of top-flight musicians that would really draw is probably a big part of the problem. The top-line bands who tour heavily simply get tired and need a break, and having to spend time in Branson performing 8 shows a week may not be their idea of a little R&R. Branson seems like a place many musicians go to after they don't want to tour anymore, or simply can't book enough tours to make a go of it. Those who still tour extensively need the break from touring, especially as European and Asian tours are becoming big income producers for a lot of American music. That just tires out the musicians that much more. 

I think having a successful place in Branson means that that's all you're doing. Big tour buses rolling in don't want to see lesser-lights. Half-hearted won't cut it, and I bet the best musicians won't want to be pinned down to having to perform that frequently. What artist is going to give up the festival season and it's income to have to hang in Branson while everyone else is out having fun?

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## John Flynn

> Why would bluegrass want to be in Branson?


Good point. I would go further and ask, "Why would anyone want to go to Branson to hear it even if it was there?" I'm from Missouri. My family went to the Ozarks and all the area tourist attractions every summer for many years when I was growing up. It was nothing more than a tourist trap and black hole for culture back then. Now it's just a lot bigger...

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## Scott Tichenor

> Good point. I would go further and ask, "Why would anyone want to go to Branson to hear it even if it was there?" I'm from Missouri. My family went to the Ozarks and all the area tourist attractions every summer for many years when I was growing up. It was nothing more than a tourist trap and black hole for culture back then. Now it's just a lot bigger...


Or as I privately call it, Branson is Las Vegas for people with not as much money and fewer teeth, minus gambling, unless you consider driving in town that definition (I do). 

The fact is those shows in Branson are for tourists and big bus loads of old folks from all over the country that want some simple entertainment. They want to hear the songs on the radio. Bluegrass won't and can't provide that. My mom did one on those once when she was still with us and raved at Boxcar Willie's show. She'd heard of him and he played all the songs she'd heard on the radio and TV commercials. Ever hear of a bluegrass group? Nope, except for the one I played in. Country shows are all about _entertaining_ the audience, and if no one understands what that means then no need in discussing further. Bluegrass is not the same kind of entertainment, and Del McCoury every night in Branson isn't going to pull in enough folks to pay the electric bill. You have to understand the coverage a Loretta Lynn and some of those other shows have over bluegrass. It ain't even close, and it ain't never gonna happen (grammar!).

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## Mike Bunting

Scott and John nicely summed up both my comments. Thanks. I also believe that bluegrass is too good to achieve mass appeal.

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## Bernie Daniel

> ...The fact is those shows in Branson are for tourists and big bus loads of old folks from all over the country that want some simple entertainment. They want to hear the songs on the radio. Bluegrass won't and can't provide that. ....


So in your opinion most bluegrass festivals do not have a lot of "old people" in the crowd..........? 

Totally out of curiosity how much personal experience do you have with Branson?  Just aking.

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## Mike Bunting

> So in your opinion most bluegrass festivals do not have a lot of "old people" in the crowd..........? 
> 
> Totally out of curiosity how much personal experience do you have with Branson?  Just aking.


Read the rest of what you quoted. The term "old people" was quite well qualified. E.g. "They want to hear the songs on the radio."
The old folks who go to BG festivals obviously don't come to hear the music that they hear on the radio.

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## Bernie Daniel

> ...Thanks. I also believe that bluegrass is too good to achieve mass appeal.


Sounds kinda silly to me -- but what the heck.  Some guy called Monroe thought it was for the folks.

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## Pete Summers

> Or as I privately call it, Branson is Las Vegas for people with not as much money and fewer teeth, minus gambling, unless you consider driving in town that definition (I do).


You probably should have left that private.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Read the rest of what you quoted. The term "old people" was quite well qualified. E.g. "They want to hear the songs on the radio."
> The old folks who go to BG festivals obviously don't come to hear the music that they hear on the radio.


I don't see your point.  Old folks do go to bluegrass festivals to hear bluegrass -- whether they hear it on the radio or not I guess.   They don't come to Branson now for bluegrass because there is none now -- I say they would if it was there -- radio or no.

Of relevance,  cruise ships with "bluegrass themes" fill several thousand openings in a few weeks - - they have to go to Florida or Alaska to get on the ships.  Missouri seems possible.

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## Beanzy

Why serve champagne in a beer mug?

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## Mike Bunting

> Sounds kinda silly to me -- but what the heck.  Some guy called Monroe thought it was for the folks.


Mass appeal is not the "folks".

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## Mike Bunting

> Why serve champagne in a beer mug?


'Zackly.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Why serve champagne in a beer mug?


Well when you shell out your $2500 - 3200 for a 7-day Royal Caribbean cruise with Rhonda Vincent and the Rage -- you will get *beer* served in *champagne* glasses!  
Say what you wish these cruises fill up fast.   :Mandosmiley:

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## Mike Bunting

A friend of mine books a big country festival in Canada and gave me this info. Taylor Swift goes for $1,500,000.00 these days, think she'll be in Branson soon?

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## Mike Bunting

> Well when you shell out your $2500 - 3200 for a 7-day Royal Caribbean cruise with Rhonda Vincent and the Rage -- you will get *beer* served in *champagne* glasses!  
> Say what you wish these cruises fill up fast.


I don't believe that Monroe's "folks" go on these cruises.

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## Mike Snyder

Last time I was in Branson Rhonda was headlining at the Grand Palace.

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## Bernie Daniel

> Mass appeal is not the "folks".


Well the folks are part of the masses -- but whatever, maybe I just have more faith in my fellow human's ability to appreciate...

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## Mike Bunting

Maybe.

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## Bernie Daniel

> I don't believe that Monroe's "folks" go on these cruises.


Really, how many of them have you been on?  The video of her last one (shown on RFD-TV) taken from on the ship looked pretty much like a bluegrass crowd back home to me -- dressed up a bit because of the ship rules...

My only point was people will spend decent money to be entertained by a bluegrass band....

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## Bernie Daniel

> Last time I was in Branson Rhonda was headlining at the Grand Palace.


Did she draw a good crowd?

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## Rex Hart

Our band is scheduled to play the BG and BBQ festival at Silver Dollar City in May and I can tell you that it is the most attended festival that SDC has. I think a mid size venue would go over like gangbusters in Branson even though some may think only toothless hillbillies would attend. As a matter of fact, I think IBMA would do themselves a favor by moving from Nashville to Branson, but I digress....

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## Charlieshafer

I think the cruises are a different beast altogether. There are blues cruises, jazz cruises, and they all fill up in large part because the cruisers not only get to hear a bunch of great artists, but because they also get to mingle with them for an extended period of time. Plus, it's a cruise, whether the ship sinks or not. Branson musically represents comfort food for a lot of the busloads of tourists who go there, and bluegrass can be a little more challenging to listen to, sort of like Louis Armstrong vs. modern jazz. You simply need too many people to make a profit to be there. If the buses aren't lined up outside the front door, those venues can't survive.  I still don't think you'd have enough top-flight artists who would want to play there for extended periods to attract crowds every day of the year. It's a high-volume business there, much like a Wall-mart.

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## JeffD

A friend of mine hosts a quilting and sewing cruise. Cruises are a different animal.

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## JeffD

> Bluegrass is not the same kind of entertainment, .


There is something to that. I recently went to a country music show, Blake Shelton, Justin Moore. The venue was filled. Every one of those 16,641 seats had a person in it.

And even though I like a some of country music, and like of what these particular entertainers do, there was much more "entertainment" than there was music.


And I recently went to a bluegrass show. Sierra Hull, Tony Trishka, Gibson Brothers. A show that was much more musical, (and not nearly so LOUD), and yea the venue was packed. All 350 seats.


The second show left me inspired and excited and in love again with the music. The first show left me exhausted and almost deaf for half of the next day.

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## drbluegrass

People turn out for BG fests in droves. And they sit in the hot sun with the humidity and bugs and listen intently to the music. I really wonder if some of the posters here are aware of what is currently going on in BG music. It is really undergoing a bit of a renaissance/resurgence. And the fests I've been to, save for maybe one, have been packed. And even that one had a respectable turnout. The fans are there. If the fests are any indication that's a given. You just need to get them to the venue. I really think if someone would provide a decent venue in Branson you'd have more fans that you could accommodate. Especially if it was the only one in there. I'd even bet they would support local/"non-name" acts. They do at fests. As someone mentioned above, in between local acts you could catch some "name" acts coming through on tour just like the fests do, maybe once a month. And you wouldn't need a large theater, at least to start with...maybe 300-350 seats. Anyway, total speculation on my part. But it sure seems doable to me. Especially given the potential fan base. OK, I'll shut up.


Tom

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## Mike Snyder

> Did she draw a good crowd?


Sold out the Palace, which was the biggest venue on the strip back then. This was 7-8 years ago when she was really new and hot. Not that she's not hot now...............................................  .......

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## BradKlein

I don't see anything wrong with the original question, although I've never been to Branson and don't know much about it. Unlikelier things have succeeded.  

Why IS there a Madame Tussauds wax museum in Time Square? (I live in NYC)  And why ISN'T there a "branch" of the Grand Ole Opry in Time Square? BB Kings blues club seems to do well there. Planet Hollywood? I can't explain it.

Bluegrass means a lot of different things to different people (as has often been discussed here on the Cafe). Maybe someone will find a formula that works in Branson, creates a whole new set of fans and economic opportunities for musicians. It probably won't resemble the bluegrass that long time festival goers or Station Inn regulars expect.  It'll be something made to order for that place and opinions will differ over its value, I suppose.

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## JeffD

> People turn out for BG fests in droves.


I have been to a few festivals, but notably not some of the big ones. So I don't know. But I am guessing that at any one main stage concert you never get anything close to an audience of 16,000? I am pretty sure Blake Shelton gets that or more routinely.

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## JeffD

> Why IS there a Madame Tussauds wax museum in Time Square? .


Madame Tussauds in London attracts about 2.5 million visitors a year. I would think they see similar numbers at most of their museums.

I would guess that the new Justin Bieber wax figure in Tussauds in Hollywood, by itself, will attract more people in a year than the number who attend live bluegrass performances in the same year.

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...And the fests I've been to, save for maybe one, have been packed. And even that one had a respectable turnout...


I basically go to two fairly decent sized BG festivals a year (OK, to be honest I missed last year). If you take the entire seating area of both of them and combine them together in one place and count the seats, then double that you won't be close to filling a section in most of the venues the big country stars play. Every thing is relative.

If it was me and I was a betting man I'd bet a "small" venue might make it in Branson playing nothing but bluegrass but you'd have to have a heck of a house band to fill in when there wasn't a decent act passing through and you might want to have a restaurant attached with the cheapest food in town available to draw in the busses.

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## Rex Hart

[QUOTE)
If it was me and I was a betting man I'd bet a "small" venue might make it in Branson playing nothing but bluegrass but you'd have to have a heck of a house band to fill in when there wasn't a decent act passing through and you might want to have a restaurant attached with the cheapest food in town available to draw in the busses.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the above statement.I will say that almost every bluegrass event that is held (and promoted) here in Missouri is usually very well attended, whether it is a festival (Starvy Creek), or just a one off show that someone has booked a passing thru national act during a week day. Even the local and regional acts seem to be able to draw decent crowds.

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## mandolino maximus

The niche part and the most people don't like it part are true.      But

There are a whole lot of people who can like it and many do unless or until they are told what it is.  Most folks who saw Steve Martin in downtown Chicago were not bluegrassers, but got most excited when the band (SCR) let loose on their own with "full bluegrass" abandon.  Then there was the noticeable crowd (largely non-bluegrass) reaction to the fiddle tune played during the Goat Rodeo Sessions live simulcast.

OTOH, there's a lot of fans of persnicketygrass who wouldn't cross the street to see a band that played it differently and wouldn't cross if they played it the same as they'd already heard.  Not only are we often cheap, half of the guys I know rarely pay to see any band and only pick at festivals any way.

If I were dedicating a venue, I'd concentrate on great musicians and target a general audience.  (Like Bill did.  Sorry, couldn't help myself.)  Especially in Branson where folks come to see Andy Williams and non-country stuff as much as country.  Buddy, can you loan me $5 million til Thursday 2020?

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## journeybear

> ... you might want to have a restaurant attached with the cheapest food in town available to draw in the busses.


As long as it has possum on the menu, mebbe roadkill stew. Gotta maintain yer demographic.  :Wink: 

By the way, a big draw for festivals is the _participation_ - parking lot and campfire pickin'. There is no room for that in a Branson venue. Unless you can figure out a way to do it, which might indeed increase your business.

I _would_ like to see a bluegrass venue there - not that I'd ever go, but just knowing it was _there_ would make me smile. And just 'cause it ain't been done don't mean it can't be done. Just gotta figure out how.

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## drbluegrass

"[...You simply need too many people to make a profit to be there. If the buses aren't lined up outside the front door, those venues can't survive. I still don't think you'd have enough top-flight artists who would want to play there for extended periods to attract crowds every day of the year. It's a high-volume business there, much like a Wall-mart....]"


Once again, we're not talking a large theater. You wouldn't need "busloads of people" to make a BG venue work. Don't forget a major contingent of people come to Branson in their personal vehicles and not buses. And you certainly wouldn't need the expensive "theatrics" that the major theaters have either. We're talking a completely different venue vs a "Pressleys type" of theater. Maybe half that size. IMHO, it's erroneous thinking to equate a BG venue with a typical large Branson theater. You simply wouldn't need it. You could perhaps hire or "borrow" a comedian to MC the shows, perhaps provide some type of food...but not necessarily. 
If you couldn't succeed with this in Branson I'm not sure you could succeed with it anywhere else. They seem to have everything necessary for success in place...except, the venue.


Tom

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## JeffD

> The niche part and the most people don't like it part are true.      But
> 
> There are a whole lot of people who can like it and many do unless or until they are told what it is.  Most folks who saw Steve Martin in downtown Chicago were not bluegrassers, but got most excited when the band (SCR) let loose on their own with "full bluegrass" abandon. ?


That is a good point. There are lots of folks who would like bluegrass if it were more "allright" to be seen liking it. You can tell your friends you are going to see Steve Martin and that banjo thing show whatever. And once exposed a lot more folks are attracted to bluegrass than will admit it. The music itself has its own justification and integrity that is easy to embrace. But for many the hurdle is high.

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## JeffD

> Once again, we're not talking a large theater. You wouldn't need "busloads of people" to make a BG venue work. And you certainly wouldn't need the expensive "theatrics" that the major theaters have either. We're talking a completely different venue vs a "Pressleys type" of theater.


Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that tickets for shows in Branson are sold outside of Branson. Few people go to Branson without their entire weekend's entertainment all layed out, tickets purchased, perhaps even a printed itinirary. Not much room for a spontaneous decision to check out this or that small of the beaten track venue, except maybe a restaurant or a cuppa coffee. Nobody shows up and then looks around for stuff to do.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it. I would love to see more people appreciate bluegrass and all its variants. But its an uphill battle just to explain what bluegrass is to folks who can identify the banjo correctly given a couple of hints.

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## drbluegrass

> That is a good point. There are lots of folks who would like bluegrass if it were more "allright" to be seen liking it. You can tell your friends you are going to see Steve Martin and that banjo thing show whatever. And once exposed a lot more folks are attracted to bluegrass than will admit it. The music itself has its own justification and integrity that is easy to embrace. But for many the hurdle is high.



I think that there are enough BG fans that the "I don't want to be seen liking it" contingent aren't even a factor. Especially as it pertains to Branson. Like I stated above, the fans/numbers are there. Just provide the venue...and they will come. Especially if it's not my money, LOL!


Tom

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## JeffD

I don't know about Branson, but I do know that many places you don't have to have the cheapest dinner venue, you just have to buy dinner for the bus driver.

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## drbluegrass

"[Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that tickets for shows in Branson are sold outside of Branson. Few people go to Branson without their entire weekend's entertainment all layed out, tickets purchased, perhaps even a printed itinirary....]"


No. Not necessarily. Perhaps not even the majority. I've been down there many times and bought the necessary tickets there, onsite. You can purchase them at the venue, restaurants, motels, or online. Some people even obtain them through their employer. Trips are not necessarily mapped out. You can purchase "pre-itinerated" packages if you want. But you certainly don't have to. And many choose to wait until they get to Branson to purchase tickets. For many, perhaps even the majority, the trips are not "automated" and "jump on the bus". I think you'll find the more elderly demographic doing that more frequently as the buses often take them to the theater doors. But BG fests seem to survive quite well without any buses at all. Shouldn't be any different in Branson.


Tom

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## BradKlein

> ...just 'cause it ain't been done don't mean it can't be done. Just gotta figure out how.


True enough.

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## TonyP

I wonder if the rooms are cheap? We have something local that has turned into a huge deal, called 48hr Jam in Bakersfield. It plays to we who go to festivals not to see bands, but to pick with others. It has gotten so big you have to reserve a room, and the place is HUGE. I think it's now into it's 6th year and just keeps growing exponentially. They now are adding things like a band contest where the winner plays at the big festival, Grass Valley. I see it as one of the best ways to get Bluegrass enthusiasts together, then see what they want. BTW, I thin they are going to have to change the name the 72hr jam as folks have started showing up several days ahead just so they can get to pick with everybody.

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## greg_tsam

> Ohh man. How do I say this...
> 
> Bluegrass is a niche music which most people don't like.


OMG.  I can't believe you said that.

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## JeffD

> OMG.  I can't believe you said that.


I know. Believe me it wasn't easy. But my experience shows it to be true over and over again.  

When I say most people, of course, I am talking about most people. Not musicians, not folkies, not most people in Galax Virginia, or most people Mt. Airy North Carolina, or Owsensboro Kentucky, but most people. As in most people as enumerated in the census. 

Thats the population I am talking about.

And that doesn't mean they wouldn't like it if they could be exposed under their radar, or that they shouldn't like it (come on), just that as it is now, they don't.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/1...by-genre-2010/

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## Mike Bunting

> I know. Believe me it wasn't easy. But my experience shows it to be true over and over again.  
> 
> When I say most people, of course, I am talking about most people. Not musicians, not folkies, not most people in Galax Virginia, or most people Mt. Airy North Carolina, or Owsensboro Kentucky, but most people. As in most people as enumerated in the census. 
> 
> Thats the population I am talking about.
> 
> And that doesn't mean they wouldn't like it if they could be exposed under their radar, or that they shouldn't like it (come on), just that as it is now, they don't.
> 
> http://www.statista.com/statistics/1...by-genre-2010/


I believe you are correct. I don't want it watered down so as to appeal to the general population either.

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## JeffD

> I believe you are correct. I don't want it watered down so as to appeal to the general population either.


I agree.

I grew up with that contrarian streak that says if the general public likes it there must be something wrong with it.

But - I think a lot more people could like bluegrass, the way it is.

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## Charlieshafer

There are so many micro-genres of music where the musicians and fans say, essentially, "If you like it, that's great! If you don't like it, that's great, too! But the music is what it is, and that's the way it's going to stay." That's the attitude bluegrass needs to have, just present it, and if people come, wonderful. If they don't, well, no problem, it's a big tent out there.

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## Mike Bunting

> I agree.
> 
> I grew up with that contrarian streak that says if the general public likes it there must be something wrong with it.
> 
> But - I think a lot more people could like bluegrass, the way it is.


I agree with you too. When people come to something on their own, it means something and when the media tells people that it's cool to like something because everybody else does, it is just typical mindless mass behaviour.

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## Jeffff

I see nothing wrong with being popular. The Beatles were insanely popular and Dark Side of the Moon was on the billboard chart for 10 years. No matter how you feel about either of them they were hardly bands that pandered.

I have problem with someone that starts out trying to find the lowest common denominator in order to be popular.  I expect passion in my music. Others can have whatever they like. I can hear the passion in blue grass music.

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## barney 59

> Sold out the Palace, which was the biggest venue on the strip back then. This was 7-8 years ago when she was really new and hot. Not that she's not hot now...............................................  .......


Rhonda Vincent is a local of sorts. Her family is "The Sally Mountain Show" an old and popular Missouri band and she was a relatively well known child star there. She wasn't starting out at all. Maybe starting over but not out. You could fill a theater in Missouri with just friends and relatives of hers. 
It's hard to tell what people will go to see. I'm from back East but live on the West Coast now. Someone spotted a yellow bellied sap sucker right here,--my yard!. I had heard it when it first showed up,a new bird in my willow tree,a new sound in the morning.  I didn't realize it was a big deal but out here it is apparently. They were common back East.  Everyday for about 2 months now I have Branson type traffic. People coming from as far away as Arizona to see this dumb little bird. I've offered to buy it a ticket to send it back to Kentucky or at least as far as Branson. Trying to figure out how to make money out of this thing. "Bird Parking" or "Bird Tours". You need the right thing if you want to draw a crowd.
   What particular Bluegrass performer/band has a big enough name to draw the crowds? The Whites? Ralph Stanley? Marty Stuart could open a theater there and people would come and there would probably be a fair amount of bluegrass at at theater under his billing. Marty is a great bluegrass performer but look what he does to market himself. He's really brilliant at it and he gives people what the want and that seems to be a lot of country with a little bluegrass mixed in.  
Do the people that like Bluegrass even like places like Branson or are we more inclined toward and more comfortable in places like Owensboro or Telluride?  I doubt that even if there was a tremendous bluegrass venue in Branson or Vegas for that matter that I would go out of my way to visit. I'd much rather take a cruise,---shuffleboard and bluegrass and a pina colata with a shore day at Vera Cruz,sounds great. Most likely though I will find myself sleeping in a tent in the Sierras or the Appalachians or some such place like most of you all to hear bluegrass music.

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## Wesley

If you go to a large festival or street fair that is not devoted to Bluegrass you'll see what I call "Music that people love but won't buy". Dixieland falls under the same definition. Western Swing too. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a festival like Main Street in Ft Worth where people stop and listen to a good band, tap their feet, applaud like crazy - and then walk away without buying a CD. It's as if the thought process is "Why buy another bluegrass CD ? I already have one".

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## JeffD

Audience member 1 - "That was great, I wonder if they are any good."

Audience member 2 - "I dunno. They have a CD out."

Audience member 1 - "Yea, but you don't hear that kind of thing on the radio. I mean, how do you know."

Audience member 2 - "Well, you wanna get a CD?"

Audience member 1 - "Nah, I already bought a CD with a banjo on. I'm gonna get one of those hand tooled leather belts over there. Hey, you want a funnel cake?"

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## MikeEdgerton

Audience member 2 - "Nah, I think I'll get me one of them fried Snickers bars.""

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## TonyP

Lol!!!!!!

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## JeffD

> Audience member 2 - "Nah, I think I'll get me one of them fried Snickers bars.""


 :Laughing: 

I hate it when I am understood that completely.   :Smile:

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## Mike Snyder

I went through Branson last weekend. North to South, South to North on the flipside. No stoplights. THAT is an improvement and my idea of a perfect trip to Branson.

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## Willie Poole

Audience member #1..."How about a deep fried turkey leg?"

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## journeybear

Audience member 2 - "Nah, I ain't that hungry. Just gonna get me some deep fried butter."







BTW, not kidding; it exists. Maybe only at the Texas State Fair, but the guy who keeps coming up with the crazy deep fried this-or-that (even ice cream) every year hit the jackpot with this - little balls of frozen butter rolled in batter and deep-fried. Supposedly really good, and melts in your mouth.  :Smile:

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## Marty Henrickson

Is it at least rolled in powdered sugar or drizzled with frosting?

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