# Music by Genre > Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk >  3 Best Recordings of Irish Accompaniment

## Narayan Kersak

Ok.  I've been playing trad for a while, however, I have to be honest, I come from a rock back ground, and while I listen to trad, its not my go to, that I have in my playlists.  I enjoying playing tunes, but not really sitting around listening to tunes unless I'm just chilling on a Sunday, and then it's probably background music.

There.  I've confessed.

However, I'm an average rhythm player, and would like to get better.  Over the years its happened naturally, but I still can't do mind boggling accompaniment that just lifts the whole session. (Which I admire quite a bit and would like to be able to do.)

So, if there were three albums to listen to, study and play along with, what would they be?

I don't care if its guitar, or octave mandolin or bouzouki.  I play mainly octave mandolin for this purpose (or a guitar tuned to New Standard Tuning (5ths)) so I will adapt.

I thought about taking John Doyle's class at Celtic Week, but I've done that before, and while he's a great player, he's one of those teachers that burns through an idea and then says... OK... now you do it...so not interested in that again.

Thoughts?

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## foldedpath

Well, John Doyle has a very specific style, and while I've tried to learn all I can from him (including one workshop) and play accompaniment mostly on Drop-D guitar, I know what you mean. 
 :Wink: 

Anyway, if you're accompanying mainly on an OM in 5ths tuning, then I'd recommend the two albums by Aly Bain & Ale Möller -- "Fully Rigged" and "Beyond the Stacks." Ale Möller does a great job on latmandola (a 5-course, sort of cittern variant). 

I guess those are my favorites for accompaniment, aside from everything John Doyle has done (and I can't get close to, on guitar). Can't think of any others at the moment, but I'm sure others here will have some suggestions.

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## Jess L.

> ... I still can't do mind boggling accompaniment that just lifts the whole session. (Which I admire quite a bit and would like to be able to do.)
> 
> So, if there were three albums to *listen* to, *study* and *play along with*, what would they be?
> 
> I don't care if its guitar, or octave mandolin or bouzouki.  I play mainly octave mandolin for this purpose (or a guitar tuned to New Standard Tuning (5ths)) so I will adapt. ...


Well I don't know about albums exactly, but as to recordings in general, I like the kind of open haunting sounds that *Donal Lunny* gets in his backings. 

A super-quick perusal of YouTube brings up one of his tunes with some 'modern' instrumentation but still the classic ethereal sound - *awesome music starts at 0:48*:  :Mandosmiley:  



_(or direct link)_ 

The text at that YouTube page says it's from a 1998 album called "Coolfin". I don't know what's on the rest of that particular album. (By 1998 I was in my non-music phase so I wasn't keeping up with music at that time, and I still have a lot of catching up to do.) I'd say just trawl through YouTube until you find backings you like the sound of.  :Smile:

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

I'll suggest a trip back to the days of  Dónal Lunny, and Planxty...and the band Dé Danann

just random examples

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brunello97, 

Jess L., 

kmmando

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## DavidKOS



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Jess L.

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## DavidKOS

> Well I don't know about albums exactly, but as to recordings in general, I like the kind of open haunting sounds that *Donal Lunny* gets in his backings.


I'm glad you suggested him too. Great player.

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Jess L.

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## Jess L.

Here's another Donal Lunny backing example, with Paddy Glackin on fiddle, recorded in 2011 in Dublin: 



_(or direct link)_

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

And these guys too

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Jess L.

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## Bertram Henze

You may copy some harmonic ideas from German DADGAD player Jens Kommnick:

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Dave Sheets, 

DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> You may copy some harmonic ideas from German DADGAD player Jens Kommnick:


" DADGAD"

Of course the Irish bouzoukis were based on DAD; my fave tuning is GDAD.

Those guys seem to like D, A and G tuning notes.

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## mandocrucian

"Best"?  Depends on what the criteria is. Plenty of great playing, but with band recordings (Planxty, Bothy Band etc.) there may be too much going on to easily isolate the mando/OM part.

For clear isolation and ensemble sparseness. 

*1)* I would recommend the first eponymous *Matt Malloy* album. Just Matt on flute and *Donal Lunny* on guitar or bouzouki. Some solo flute tracks, the remainder are about equal as to guitar or bouzouki.  And because of the transparent/translucent sound of the flute, nothing interferes or obscures the backup.

*2)* Similarly, though a book with recording is *Fifty Irish Fiddle Tunes* by *Tommy Peoples,* published by Waltons. Originally this came with a cassette tape., but now it appears the it is available just as the tunebook, or the tunebook with CD at the double the price. (and "pricey"), so be forewarned and find out if which version you are contemplating to buy.  His ornamentation is notated, but no bowings.

About 18 tunes are solo fiddle, 21 feature bouzouki backup by *Manus Lunny* (complete stereo separation between fiddle and backup) with the remainder with Manus playing guitar backup.  

*3)* For a "walk through" of various baclup concepts/approaches which would probably be highly useful....in *The Mandocrucian's Digest* issue#24 - Dec. 1994 (and continued into #25) there was a lengthy instructional article I wrote about _"Backing a Fiddle or Other High Register Instrument in a Duo"_.  Only two tunes, "Gary Owen" (jig) and _"Swinging on the Gate"_ (reel) were used, with multiple approaches to (*non* bluegrassy) backing of each tune. I later recorded an instructional cassette, about 75 minutes long, demonstrating all the material in the article, and subsequently put it on CD.  With complete stereo separation between the melody and the backup.

I still have some back issues and can burn the CD, and if you are interested,.... _$16 postpaid for #24/#25/CD, but only for/within the US. Old school mode of payment (check/money order), no cc or paypal....sorry._  PM me if that price info gets removed .
(To the moderators, I'm really not really plugging my stuff, or I'd take out a classified ad... Just responding to the OP. And actually, I don't expect more than one ot two response, if that.)

Niles H

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Daniel Vance, 

DavidKOS, 

Eric Platt, 

Jess L.

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## Narayan Kersak

Mandocrucian:  Sounds interesting, but before committing is there anyway to hear maybe a clip of what you have going on?

Everyone else, wow... this is some great information.  Saved me lots of time of tralling through YouTube videos.  

All great information.  Thank you.

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## Dagger Gordon

The first two are easy to say.
'Promenade' and 'Portland' by the ex Bothy Band fiddle and guitarist Kevin Burke and Micheal o'Domhnaill.
Completely magical. I hardly listened to anything else for ages.



You should also check out Ross Martin of the Scottish band Diamh.

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DavidKOS, 

DougC, 

Jess L.

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## mandocrucian



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## DougC

Geeze, you guys are exhausting all of my favorites and best suggestions.

There is one gem not mentioned yet, and that is *Frank Kilkelly's* book, (and now 2 CD's), called _"Accompanying Irish Music on Guitar."_

He has a web page of about 15 world class Irish guitar videos, and his book and CD explain how to play like them. *http://irishtradguitar.com/leading-players/*

 I have had his book and CD for years and they are probably my most valued resource in my whole collection.

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Jess L.

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## DavidKOS

> *1)* I would recommend the first eponymous *Matt Malloy* album. Just Matt on flute and *Donal Lunny* on guitar or bouzouki.
>  melody and the backup.


Man, I forgot about that one!

One of my favorite flute players (one of everyones?) and Donal.

All other suggestions are well worth the listen!

thanks for the reminder.

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## Dagger Gordon

> The first two are easy to say.
> 'Promenade' and 'Portland' by the ex Bothy Band fiddle and guitarist Kevin Burke and Micheal o'Domhnaill.
> Completely magical. I hardly listened to anything else for ages.
> 
> You should also check out Ross Martin of the Scottish band Diamh.


Here are Diamh (pronounced 'Dive) . Ross Martin is terrific.
There is also good octave mandolin from Murdo 'Yogi' Cameron. Well, it's all pretty good actually.

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## Jess L.

> The first two are easy to say.
> 'Promenade' and 'Portland' by the ex Bothy Band fiddle and guitarist Kevin Burke and Micheal o'Domhnaill.
> Completely magical. I hardly listened to anything else for ages.


I'm always amazed at how Kevin Burke & co play so effortlessly, such efficiency of motion that they make it look easy... The music itself is so powerful that there's no need for theatrics or 'showmanship' to keep the audience's attention. Just pure music that stands on its own without flashy visuals. Great stuff.  :Mandosmiley:

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DavidKOS

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## seankeegan

always loved Frank Hogan's backing:




That's Sean Casey on banjo; son of famed fiddler Bobby Casey. Interestingly, Sean started on the mandolin before moving onto the banjo and then later the fiddle. There's a lovely father/son fiddle/mandolin duet on the CD "Spirit of West Clare", a compilation of recordings of Bobby brought out by Reg Hall.

There's a few commercial recordings of Frank, the most famous one being:

http://www.copperplatemailorder.com/...ic-of-ireland/

He's also on this album, with Charlie Lennon and Mick O'Connor:

https://www.discogs.com/Charlie-Lenn...elease/8240964

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DavidKOS, 

Jess L., 

Jill McAuley

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## JeffD

> The first two are easy to say.
> 'Promenade' and 'Portland' by the ex Bothy Band fiddle and guitarist Kevin Burke and Micheal o'Domhnaill.
> Completely magical. I hardly listened to anything else for ages.


The very definition of magical. I as well spent huge great truckloads of time listening to this stuff.

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## kmmando

Feadog Stain, Mary Bergin with Alec Finn & Johnny McDonagh
Noel Hill, Tony Linanne with Alec Finn. first album on Tara Records
Frankie |Gavin & Alec Finn - duet album on Shannachie USA

As good as accompaniment gets in my simple opinion.

Kevin

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DougC

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## kmmando



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DavidKOS, 

Jess L., 

Larry Ayers

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## Narayan Kersak

> Geeze, you guys are exhausting all of my favorites and best suggestions.
> 
> There is one gem not mentioned yet, and that is *Frank Kilkelly's* book, (and now 2 CD's), called _"Accompanying Irish Music on Guitar."_
> 
> He has a web page of about 15 world class Irish guitar videos, and his book and CD explain how to play like them. *http://irishtradguitar.com/leading-players/*
> 
>  I have had his book and CD for years and they are probably my most valued resource in my whole collection.


Think I could get away with just Volume 2? Volume 1 looks like general stuff I may already know.  Any thoughts?

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## lukmanohnz

Threads like this are one of the many things I love about the cafe.

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Jess L.

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## Narayan Kersak

AgReed

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## Bertram Henze

When using recordings for an inspiration, it must be observed that those accompanists had time to experiment with tunes they know. That is not too hard to do.

Where the challenge comes in is when sitting in at a session and hearing an unknown tune for the first time. Good accompanists can join in after the first time round because they recognize the harmonical pattern from other tunes they know. This way, you can slowly increase the rate of unknown tunes you can join, but you'll never reach 100% because there is always the odd tune you have no pattern for yet. I have heard totally seasoned accompanists harmonically trainwreck a tune outside their comfort zone without even noticing it - the knack is knowing when not to play.

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DavidKOS

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## Beanzy

Check out Dennis Cahill too. He’s a master at leaving space and making others sound good.

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## Dagger Gordon

> Check out Dennis Cahill too. Hes a master at leaving space and making others sound good.


Martin and Dennis are excellent indeed, no question, but I have always felt their combination owed a lot to those earlier Burke/ O Domhnaill recordings and they would no doubt have often seen them play, particularly in the States.

I guess not everyone reading this thread would necessarily know that Kevin and Michael both moved to the States after the Bothy Band, basing themselves in Portland, Oregon (hence the second album title) and Martin and Dennis also live in the States. It has always seemed to me, looking at it from Scotland, that their music became influenced by this American experience but in turn became very influential in the Celtic music scene in the States in a way that is perhaps subtly different from how it might have been if it was solely Irish-based. The same could be said for California-based Scottish fiddler Alasdair Fraser, I think.

But in turn again, all of this music has been hugely influential back in Ireland and Scotland

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Clement Barrera-Ng, 

Jill McAuley

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## Beanzy

Definitely, but Cahill has something like a harpists head working on a guitar.
I think his stuff with Hayes and even some of the stuff with The Gloaming is an attempt to recapture some of the space that so often gets driven out of the more modern session influenced music & the ceileidh band drilling from the ‘30s onwards.

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DavidKOS

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## DougC

> Think I could get away with just Volume 2? Volume 1 looks like general stuff I may already know. Any thoughts?



The first volume describes how to play like specific guitarists who represent different styles. For example DADGAD done by Daithi Sproule and Mark Kelly from Altan. There are chord charts and chord progressions that they use. He does this for about a dozen other players including, Arty McGlynn, Dennis Cahill and Johnny Doyle.  And there is a CD for the audio instruction. 

There also is instruction for very advanced players. Transposition, chord construction, chord voicings, some music theory, modal accompaniment, relative minors, knowing the notes on the fretboard for DADGAD, standard tuning, Dropped D, Double Dropped D tunings. Strumming and picking - right hand technique is also discussed. 

The second volume (that I don't have yet), does the same but with more current guitarists.

Kilkelly writes from a guitarist's perspective. He knows what you need at all levels of skill. There is stuff there for advanced players that will keep you challenged.

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## Blues Healer

I'm partial to Paul Brady & Andy Irvine. Paul Brady is a wonderful accompanist, whether solo or in an ensemble. Andy Irvine , rather than strum chords, plays a lot of melody and counterpoint lines, and weaves through other players in an intriguing way. And of course, on their watershed album, they had Donal Lunny driving the pace.

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## Bertram Henze

> Paul Brady is a wonderful accompanist, whether solo or in an ensemble.


Especially, he was able to follow Andy Irvine's wild time changes.

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## Dagger Gordon

I saw Andy perform in a small room with no amplification on Sunday night in the North of Scotland.
He's still pretty good. He performed for over two hours in a relaxed atmosphere where he did some songs he hadn't sung for a while.

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## Dagger Gordon

https://www.facebook.com/france3brei...5410954152591/

Breton musicians Sylvain Barou (flute) and Ronan Pellen (cittern) have made an album of Irish music. Sounds fabulous.
https://www.sylvainbarou.com/barou-pellen-cd

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## Perry

> Ok.  I've been playing trad for a while, however, I have to be honest, I come from a rock back ground, and while I listen to trad, its not my go to, that I have in my playlists.  I enjoying playing tunes, but not really sitting around listening to tunes unless I'm just chilling on a Sunday, and then it's probably background music.
> 
> There.  I've confessed.
> 
> However, I'm an average rhythm player, and would like to get better.  Over the years its happened naturally, but I still can't do mind boggling accompaniment that just lifts the whole session. (Which I admire quite a bit and would like to be able to do.)
> 
> So, if there were three albums to listen to, study and play along with, what would they be?
> 
> I don't care if its guitar, or octave mandolin or bouzouki.  I play mainly octave mandolin for this purpose (or a guitar tuned to New Standard Tuning (5ths)) so I will adapt.
> ...


This book has lots of great tips and ideas

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## foldedpath

> https://www.facebook.com/france3brei...5410954152591/
> 
> Breton musicians Sylvain Barou (flute) and Ronan Pellen (cittern) have made an album of Irish music. Sounds fabulous.
> https://www.sylvainbarou.com/barou-pellen-cd


Thanks for that heads-up! Sylvain Barou is one of my favorite flute players, and the backing on that clip from Ronan also sounds great. Just ordered the CD.

Edit to add: I couldn't quite place the jig in the video clip ahead of "Kid on the Mountain," but I just realized after another listening that it might be a setting of "Welcome Home Grannia," one of those tunes (with extended march/jig/reel settings) that's on my "have to learn soon" list. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that, but it sure sounds familiar but different.

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Dagger Gordon

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## Graham McDonald

Hunt out the Tommy Peoples & Paul Brady LP The High Part of the Road, Shanachie 1976. It was re-released on CD in the 90s

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## mrmando

> Anyway, if you're accompanying mainly on an OM in 5ths tuning, then I'd recommend the two albums by Aly Bain & Ale Möller -- "Fully Rigged" and "Beyond the Stacks." Ale Möller does a great job on latmandola (a 5-course, sort of cittern variant).


Second this. Just snagged a copy of _Fully Rigged_ and it's marvelous. 

Also, you absolutely must listen to Dennis Cahill backing Martin Hayes, particularly on _Live in Seattle._

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## Gerry Cassidy

Wow! Many, many great references in this thread! 

Alec Finn's pocket almost always sits well in whatever tune he's backing. That, as well as his note selection, has always put him at the top of my list. 

I'm a GDAD guy, influenced by his DAD. I also tune to DADGAD when accompanying on the guitar. I think his influence has a lot to do with that, as well. 

I can listen to him play just about anything, but his work with Mary Bergin is at the top of my list. Stuff like the Feadoga Stain recordings.

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## Shan Andy

> There is one gem not mentioned yet, and that is *Frank Kilkelly's* book, (and now 2 CD's), called _"Accompanying Irish Music on Guitar."_


For someone who is not a particularly skilled or technically knowledgeable musician, with no intention of using the guitar for this, how useful is the book & CD?

I ask because it seems exactly what I'm looking for.

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## mandocrucian

*Fully Rigged* is a great record and Möller's playing is tremendous.  I think of him along the lines as a Nordic Martin Carthy. He also did a 2nd one with Aly Bain, *Beyond The Stacks*

However, you should be aware the he is playing a rather unique 10-string: bass string has an extended scale, there are individual "pinpoint" capos so he can alter the tuning, plus some 1/4 tone frets for those in-between pitches.

Möller is also a member of the band *Frifot* with Lena Willemark with numerous albums out. There were two albums with Willemark and some jazz players under the *Nordan Project* moniker. This first on, *Nordan,* is excellent.  There were some older solo albums (_Bouzoukispellman_) but they are probably out of print.  (In fact, he no longer had a copy of that and asked me to run off of a copy if for him.)

There's also the *Ale Möller Band* which has a multi-ethnic lineup and is a fusion of various world roots music.

For a long (but not complete) discography, click on the Wikipedia link below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ale_Möller

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## Narayan Kersak

> Wow! Many, many great references in this thread! 
> 
> Alec Finn's pocket almost always sits well in whatever tune he's backing. That, as well as his note selection, has always put him at the top of my list. 
> 
> I'm a GDAD guy, influenced by his DAD. I also tune to DADGAD when accompanying on the guitar. I think his influence has a lot to do with that, as well. 
> 
> I can listen to him play just about anything, but his work with Mary Bergin is at the top of my list. Stuff like the Feadoga Stain recordings.


I agree, this has turned into a thread, that any devoted trad student could really grow from.  I think, I may start at the top, and go down and learn what I can from each recording.

Thanks everyone.

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Jess L.

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## Dagger Gordon

> [B][I]
> 
>   There were some older solo albums (_Bouzoukispellman_) but they are probably out of print.  (In fact, he no longer had a copy of that and asked me to run off of a copy if for him


I think Bouzoukispellman might have been reissued in 2015.

https://musikverket.se/capricerecord...elman/?lang=en

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mandocrucian

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## Reinhardt

How about Adam Rhodes of the bands IMAR and Barrule. very rhythmic player, top notch in my opinion.

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Jess L.

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## Narayan Kersak

> How about Adam Rhodes of the bands IMAR and Barrule. very rhythmic player, top notch in my opinion.


That in particular looks like fun to learn from.  I also began experimenting with playing my octave mando capoed up around that same area and really enjoyed that sound.

although is he playing and GBOM or GZouk?

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## Beanzy

Loving all these examples, they bring home the importance of how good backing in Irish music (perhaps not so much in the broader Celtic genres) is about making the melody sound out and giving space for the nuances of intonation of the melody instruments to come through.

A wee aside; 
Watching the Ímar video brought to mind something that’s been niggling me for a while about those newer style deep framed bodhráns.
They’re ok when playing around the edge or on the rim, but they get very bongo-like when the tipper hits towards the centre, giving a popping bubble effect which I find very distracting from the melody. The Ímar video makes it very obvious. Anyway that’s just a bit of an observation of a Celtic music trend I could do with seeing pass as a fad, rather than getting embedded in the traditional side of Irish music.

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DavidKOS

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## Reinhardt

> That in particular looks like fun to learn from.  I also began experimenting with playing my octave mando capoed up around that same area and really enjoyed that sound.
> 
> although is he playing and GBOM or GZouk?


It's a Guitar Bouzouki made by Nigel Forster. I bought Adam's original standard Forster bouzouki from him about 2 years ago. Lovely guy and great player. Some great Scandinavian players out there as well.

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## DavidKOS

> A wee aside; 
> Watching the Ímar video brought to mind something that’s been niggling me for a while about those newer style deep framed bodhráns.
> They’re ok when playing around the edge or on the rim, but they get very bongo-like when the tipper hits towards the centre, giving a popping bubble effect which I find very distracting from the melody. The Ímar video makes it very obvious. Anyway that’s just a bit of an observation of a Celtic music trend I could do with seeing pass as a fad, rather than getting embedded in the traditional side of Irish music.


I'm not the biggest fan of the bodhrán; 

http://www.ceolas.org/instruments/bodhran/history.shtml

"The bodhrán is an old drum but a young musical instrument. Although it has existed in Ireland for centuries, it was introduced into traditional music performance only in the 1960s, and became common only in the 1970s.

..........
Until the 1960s, it was uncommon outside southwestern Ireland; it was introduced to modern traditional music to Sean O Riada, who used it in his arrangements for Ceoltóirí Chualann and the Chieftains."

 Sean O Riada did not like the drumming in Céilí bands, so he pushed the use of the bodhrán.

https://leavingcertmusic.weebly.com/...ute-bands.html

To me it sounds like tennis shoes in a clothes dryer.

Enough so that Chris and Devon Caswell have taught beginner bodhrán classes using cardboard pizza boxes...and they sounded pretty good.

Let's adapt the saying about jazz drums to Irish sessions:

"It takes a really good bodhrán player to be better than no bodhrán player."

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## mandocrucian

> "It takes a really good bodhrán player to be better than no bodhrán player."


Hmmm .... Pretty snarky.  

Same could be said of _banjo_ or _mandolin_ (gasp!) or _accordion_ or _bagpipes_, depending on your personal biases.

Any good drummer/percussionist is going to be effective tapping on a desk, himself, a paper bag or cardboard box or shaking a bottle of vitamins, a bag of un-popped popcorn. or a bundle of goat hooves

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> Any* good drummer/percussionist* is going to be effective tapping on a desk, himself, a paper bag or cardboard box or shaking a bottle of vitamins, a bag of un-popped popcorn. or a bundle of goat hooves


I sold bodhrans for decades.  Perhaps I am jaded.

And your last sentence was pretty much my point. Any* good drummer/percussionist*

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## Bertram Henze

> Loving all these examples, they bring home the importance of how good backing in Irish music (perhaps not so much in the broader Celtic genres) is about making the melody sound out and giving space for the nuances of intonation of the melody instruments to come through.
> 
> A wee aside; 
> Watching the Ímar video brought to mind something that’s been niggling me for a while about those newer style deep framed bodhráns.
> They’re ok when playing around the edge or on the rim, but they get very bongo-like when the tipper hits towards the centre, giving a popping bubble effect which I find very distracting from the melody. The Ímar video makes it very obvious. Anyway that’s just a bit of an observation of a Celtic music trend I could do with seeing pass as a fad, rather than getting embedded in the traditional side of Irish music.


Neckless banjos have undergone a vast change in acceptance since they first appeared.

It is only me or does that resemble Deliverance in some way? Is there a session today calling itself traditional *and* accepting this?

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> Neckless banjos have undergone a vast change in acceptance since they first appeared.
> 
> It is only me or does that resemble Deliverance in some way? Is there a session today calling itself traditional *and* accepting this?


Oddly enough, I liked that performance. Old style whistle playing. 

Drumming didn't bother me.  That time.

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## Dagger Gordon

John Joe Kelly really is good on the bodhran.  In Flook Ed Boyd on guitar and John Joe were great.

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DavidKOS, 

mandocrucian

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## foldedpath

I don't mind a bodhran player showing up at a session, but they'd better know their stuff. And maybe not play on _every single tune_, including the slow ones. Part of the bad reputation is due to the clueless newbies who see it as an easy way to join in the fun, while ruining the fun of everyone else. No other instrument has the same session-wrecking potential, which is why you'll see people wince if a stranger walks up with one.

Performance is different, where a band might want some percussion. On the other hand, most of my favorite trad bands like Bothy Band, Lúnasa, and Altan have managed to get along fine without a drummer. Just sayin'...

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DavidKOS, 

Eric Platt

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## Narayan Kersak

Definitely true about good drummers keeping good time with anything.  That's the trick.

Not being a pure Irish Trad player, I am often wishing more musicians would pay attention to the "good" bodhran player.  We are blessed to have one in our area.  Since I mainly played rock earlier, I like locking into the drummer, and it makes sense if more people would, the whole session would stay together better! (At least the really big sessions where it can get kind of wonky).  Then again, I hear that's not really how it should be.  But you know what they say... you can should in one hand and ---- in the other and see which one fills up first!

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> I don't mind a bodhran player showing up at a session, but they'd better know their stuff. And maybe not play on _every single tune_, including the slow ones.* Part of the bad reputation is due to the clueless newbies who see it as an easy way to join in the fun, while ruining the fun of everyone else*. No other instrument has the same session-wrecking potential, which is why you'll see people wince if a stranger walks up with one.
> 
> Performance is different, where a band might want some percussion. On the other hand, most of my favorite trad bands like Bothy Band, Lúnasa, and Altan have managed to get along fine without a drummer. Just sayin'...


Well said!

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## mandocrucian

> John Joe Kelly really is good on the bodhran. In Flook Ed Boyd on guitar and John Joe were great.


They are terrific, one of my *favorite* bands. And you really want to listen to the CD on headphones.  BTW, Your youtubes didn't show up except for black rectangles.  *Really* like the guitar backup.  A sublime band!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwGEKCtbPco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtBvSAoS30

edit: WHAT GIVES with the MC and YouTubes? I loaded two videos in my post, and 4 black boxes show up instead.

PPS: went back and just put the urls for the two Flook videos

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Dagger Gordon, 

DavidKOS

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## Eric Platt

> I don't mind a bodhran player showing up at a session, but they'd better know their stuff. And maybe not play on _every single tune_, including the slow ones. Part of the bad reputation is due to the clueless newbies who see it as an easy way to join in the fun, while ruining the fun of everyone else. No other instrument has the same session-wrecking potential, which is why you'll see people wince if a stranger walks up with one.
> 
> Performance is different, where a band might want some percussion. On the other hand, most of my favorite trad bands like Bothy Band, Lúnasa, and Altan have managed to get along fine without a drummer. Just sayin'...


Heh. That's what I've been told the guitar is in the Twin Cities Irish scene. One reason I've never even tried to join that culture. As I was told 25 plus years ago - I better have 20 years of playing Irish music professionally before starting in on the beginner jams around here.

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DavidKOS

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## DavidKOS

> Heh. That's what I've been told the guitar is in the Twin Cities Irish scene. One reason I've never even tried to join that culture. As I was told 25 plus years ago - I better have 20 years of playing Irish music professionally before starting in on the beginner jams around here.


I spoke to a seasoned Irish musician yesterday...he reminded me that the bodhran situation is much the same as the non-DADGAD guitar in sessions; too many bad - or at least inappropriate style - players gave the instrument a bad rep.

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Eric Platt, 

Jess L., 

Jill McAuley

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## foldedpath

> Heh. That's what I've been told the guitar is in the Twin Cities Irish scene. One reason I've never even tried to join that culture. As I was told 25 plus years ago - I better have 20 years of playing Irish music professionally before starting in on the beginner jams around here.


Aw, it can't be _that_ bad.  :Smile: 

Most big cities have a mix of high-level and more intermediate and beginner-friendly sessions. Don't give up on it entirely, if you're interested in joining a session. The high level and intermediate level sessions in my area (Seattle and outskirts) are generally very welcoming to newcomers at their respective skill levels. Just find one that's appropriate to your familiarity with the music.

It *is* true that most Irish trad sessions can only handle a limited number of accompaniment players, and tend to be more open to newcomers if you're playing a melody instrument. It's because the accompaniment is basically improvised against a fixed melody line, so there just isn't room for too many improvisers playing clashing chords and rhythms at the same time. It's not like a Bluegrass or OldTime session where the rhythms and chords are more locked down and predictable. 

It's the reason for the "one guitar or bodhran player at a time" convention in many sessions. Especially here in the USA, where the Guitar Army is lurking around every corner, and can't wait to turn any acoustic jam into a Grateful Dead sing-along.
 :Wink:

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DavidKOS, 

Eric Platt

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## Eric Platt

Nope. No longer interested in even attempting to play Irish music. Went down different musical paths instead. And what I was told was true. The beginner sessions at the time were populated by the professional players who often had a night off on beginner night. That and a 10pm start time on a week night was good at weeding out the pretenders.

Plus, I don't want to spend the next 20 years trying to learn DADGAD guitar. That's a different discussion for a different time.

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DavidKOS

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## Eric Platt

BTW, for best accompaniment I'd add something along these lines -

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## mandocrucian

> No longer interested in even attempting to play Irish music. Went down different musical paths instead. And what I was told was true.


Well, as they say...
_Once you've gone viking
Nothing else is as exciting!_

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Eric Platt

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## Bertram Henze

> The beginner sessions at the time were populated by the professional players who often had a night off on beginner night. That and a 10pm start time on a week night was good at weeding out the pretenders.


Would be good at weeding out the early risers, even if they're good at playing. Looks like this is intended to mimick the Irish custom of starting past 9 pm (which I never understood either), leaving open the question who is pretending what.

But to anyone prepared to drive, say, for an hour to the session, there is always another, better session in city areas.

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DavidKOS, 

Eric Platt

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## Eric Platt

> Would be good at weeding out the early risers, even if they're good at playing. Looks like this is intended to mimick the Irish custom of starting past 9 pm (which I never understood either), leaving open the question who is pretending what.
> 
> But to anyone prepared to drive, say, for an hour to the session, there is always another, better session in city areas.


Very true. This was also many years ago and the jams have changed. There are real beginner jams out there which are welcoming to actual beginners to that particular style of music.  And those jams now start at more reasonable times. At least for those of us who are early risers.

Funny thing - while the Twin Cities is not necessarily small, an hour's drive will take me down to Northfield, MN where there is a beautiful Irish music jam which starts at a reasonable hour. It's also the same night and approximately same time as a Scandinavian music session just down the street. The latter is the one where I'm a semi regular.

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## seankeegan

Tommy Peoples - Waiting for a Call. Originally recorded with Donal Lunny on bouzouki, it was never released (for reasons not worth speculating online). Fast forward to 2003 and Shanachie release an album with some of the original tracks (quite a few from the original recording missing), and Lunny removed, Alec Finn added. If you listen to track 13 (unlucky for some), you can clearly hear the crossfade from Lunny's intro into Finn after the fiddle enters. And no credit on album notes for Lunny playing bouzouki. He is credited for playing bodhran on that track. 

The rest of the album is made up of more modern recordings of Peoples, backed by John Doyle on guitar. Apart from track 16 where he's playing bouzouki, but that's not credited either!  :Smile: 

Great album.

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Beanzy, 

DavidKOS, 

kmmando

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## Beanzy

> Looks like this is intended to mimick the Irish custom of starting past 9 pm (which I never understood either), leaving open the question who is pretending


This is normally because there’s the dinner to be had, kids put to bed etc. before you get the visa stamped to head out for some tunes. For a lot of the better players they’ll be coming along after doing a few evening lessons for any adults they teach, or they’ll be taking lessons from someone else etc.... it has to fit in around the rest of life, which normally means digging into the sleep. 
For me the late start normally indicates a decent session could be afoot & it’s probably not being done for anyone but the players benefit.

(Love that album Sean, never heard the back story on it before, thanks)

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Eric Platt

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## Gan Ainm

Did I miss it? No mention of John McGanns detailed octave mando/ zouk method book  with CD?  Especially good on the arpeggiated style.  Gerry McKee CD ROM from Mad for Trad is an excellent intro to the more strummed style, but don't know if still available. These are both geared to those of us who prefer to stay with GDAE tuning  as to not overly confuse our poor mando picking brains.

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## jobella

Found some Irish gem music today thanks to tis thread

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## Larry Ayers

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the fine recordings of Kevin Macleod, especially those with Alec Finn. Accompaniment and lead shifting back and forth, and with great respect for the melodies.

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Rob Meyer

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