# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Living on his fathers name

## Willie Poole

I vowed that I would cut down on my posting about bands and what I thought of them but this is something I just have to post....I am sorry if I step on some toes...BUT

  A few days ago I saw Bobby Osborne Jr and his band on TV...That young man cannot sing a lick, he seems like a decent bass player and has some pretty good pickers along with him but he just can`t carry a turn and hit the correct notes...I had saw him once before and thought that just maybe he was having a bad day or the sound system didn`t do him any justice  but he sounded the same both times....

   I know that is just my opinion and there may be others that think he does a good job and I hate to sound like I am bragging but I can sure sing better than that, if only my father had of been a famous bluegrass singer I would be rich now...YEAH, I know I can always turn the TV set off.....

     Willie

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Gary Hedrick, 

Mike Bunting

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## Gene Summers

Peter Brady couldn't sing either, until his voice suddenly changed... :Laughing:

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## mandopete

Don't be a hater.

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## Mandopotter

Saw him on Jubilee with Sonny. 
Thought they sounded pretty bad.
Oh well, I can't sing either.
wbw

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## George R. Lane

I don't think he is a hater, he is just expressing his opinion.

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albeham, 

almeriastrings, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

Mike Bunting, 

Susan H., 

swampstomper

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## George R. Lane

> Don't be a hater.


I do not believe Willie is being a 'hater'. He is just expressing his opinion, like it or not.

Sorry for the double post.

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Gary Hedrick, 

Mike Bunting

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## allenhopkins

Judge for yourselves:



Appears to have Bobby Sr.'s former physique, in any case.

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## Mike Bunting

Willie is right. The band has a few issues too.

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## JonZ

Technically, Bobby Osborne Jr. is _his_ name.

I didn't name any of my sons after me to maintain plausible deniability. :Wink:

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citeog, 

Gary Hedrick

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## Willie Poole

I don`t hate him, how can I hate someone I have never met....

   Thanks for the video Allen, to me it proves my point...a lot of us starving bluegrassers out there and he is taking up a lot of room...In more than one way....Lol

   I agree with Mandopotter, his being in Rockytop Express doesn`t help Bobby`s image any either now days...

   My great Uncle was Charlie Poole but I didn`t get any favors for being from his family....

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Gary Hedrick

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## Mike Bunting

> Technically, Bobby Osborne Jr. is _his_ name.


And his nickname is BOJ but that's not the point, how about living in the reflected glory of his father's name?

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## Gary Hedrick

Charlie Poole?   Really Willie......that makes you a part of early bluegrass royalty!!!!  Gid Tanner.....JE and Wade Mainer....if but for a few quirks of history we might be referring to one of them as the Father of The Bluegrass Music.


Like my new Avatar??    I think an outrageously flamed back from a '27 F4 is stunning!!

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Mike Bunting

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## Jim Ferguson

Willie........the video Allen posted makes your point perfectly.......give the young Bobby credit for trying but he & the band definitely have some issues. Just because he has a famous & talented dad doesn't mean the son will have the same talent......another great example is Julian Lennon.........looks like his old man......sounds a lot like his old man......but simply is not the talent his old man was........I'm sure we could come up with many more examples.
Peace,

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## Willie Poole

JIm...My point wasn`t that just because he is Bobby`s son means he can sing...My point was/is that I see a lot of non-talented people living off of their fathers/mothers name, my hat is off to him for trying, my beef is mostly is with the money hungry promoters that book these people just to draw a crowd to the shows using a famous name, Hank Jr wasn`t near what his father was either so he sort of went in a different direction than his dad....

   Gary, I guess I should have said that Charlie Poole was my "GREAT  UNCLE" but I don`t recall ever meeting or seeing him....

   Willie

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## Gary Hedrick

Well none the less the man was a giant from the day!

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## swampstomper

Surprised no one has yet mentioned James Monroe. No I am not a hater, he had the Voice from his father and when Bill did the arranging (as in Father and Son LP) the results were not bad at all -- "Tall Pines" for example. But on his own (and I heard the Midnight Ramblers many times at festivals) he just did not have the feel for the music (song selection, timing), nor the regal stage presence. He did carry some good musicians over the years but never was a headline act -- for good reason.

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Gary Hedrick

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## f5loar

I'm afraid Willie has it right.  The Bojo just ain't got that Osborne mojo.  He tries hard and he is dedicated but after his Dad dies it want be so easy to make a living playing the songs of the Osbornes on his name alone.  There are others out there that have tried and failed pretty quick.  Jimmy Martin,Jr. is another example.  He didn't get the voice or the ability to play guitar even using his Dad's famous Martin guitar.  Last time I saw him he was back on the snare drum singing lead (rather awkward to see in person).  He did play some on snare with his Dad but I don't recall Dad letting him sing a song or two like Bill did with James and Mellisa.  I will say there are other things he did inherit but music ability was not one of them.  I do not know how his "coon hunting" skills stack up to his Dads who was a Master at treeing a coon.  And then there are some sons of famous bluegrass legends that are good, yet seem to not be able to pull it together in quite the same fashion or style.

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Gary Hedrick

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## AlanN

Of course Willie is right. The man is off-pitch, big time. It must kill Dad. Didn't he have another son Wynn? Picked banjo real good as I recall.

The one family band which nailed it, at least at one time, was The Reno Brothers. Dad would have been proud (now, not so much).

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## Wolfboy

> The one family band which nailed it, at least at one time, was The Reno Brothers.


Hey now, hey now...what about Ronnie and Rob McCoury?

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FLATROCK HILL, 

Gary Hedrick, 

swampstomper

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## allenhopkins

> ...a lot of us starving bluegrassers out there and he is taking up a lot of room...In more than one way...


He's definitely _not_ starving.




> Gary, I guess I should have said that Charlie Poole was my "GREAT  UNCLE" but I don`t recall ever meeting or seeing him....


Charlie Poole died in 1931 -- could your paths have crossed at all?

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## mrmando

> My great Uncle was Charlie Poole but I didn`t get any favors for being from his family....


From what I understand of his biography, Uncle Charlie didn't perform any favors for anyone but himself. 



> I don't recall Dad letting him sing a song or two like Bill did with James and Mellisa.


I don't find Melissa's voice easy on the ear either, I must confess.

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## Gary Hedrick

Oh now Allen I am talking about jeans.....er rather genetic material......Willie has the mojo running through his veins.....

And I completely agree with the James posting above......and Wynn isn't a bad banjo player that's true......

and Ronnie McCoury is one of the best if not the best bluegrass mandolin players in the mix today in my little pea brain.  Got the Monroe tribute CD and he sure plays a Monroe style really well......good stuff

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## Mike Bunting

> and Ronnie McCoury is one of the best if not the best bluegrass mandolin players in the mix today in my little pea brain.  Got the Monroe tribute CD and he sure plays a Monroe style really well......good stuff


That solo on In Despair is astounding.

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## Gary Hedrick

Yes I would agree.......ah would Bill have played that clean but then I think some of the mojo would have been left behind.....Ronnie is like a Bill but oh so refined in his execution.....all the licks with such a miraculous control ....he is such a joy to listen to......not overdone.....not too slick....all the meat and potatoes of the Bill music but with a refinement ....

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almeriastrings, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

swampstomper

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## Gary Hedrick

Raw Hide.mp3

but I should not be too judgemental about Bill's clean picking.....here is one I really like from Bean Blossom.....with daddy Del and Brad Keith......think the Master might have been in high gear that day....

got that same power/speed as Ronnie or Ronnie has of Bill's ....

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## f5loar

Don't forget Red Allen's boys...... they had it going on!  And Earl's boys weren't too bad either.  Gary is still a good session guitar picker. Wynn still picks some with Bobby Osborne.  And Reno's boys may have gone to the dark side for a decade or more but they are back stronger than ever doing their Daddy's songs.  Saw them at IBMA and they were getting it on pretty strong.  The jury is still out on George Hamiliton the V.  He stands beside his father on the Opry every other Sat. night singing at least one verse.  And while not related to bluegrass or country you got to love Lisa Marie Presley for giving it a try.  Merle Travis's son is a pretty good sound alike of his father.  And while you might not like Hank, Jr., you gotta admit Hank, III has it.  Ernest Tubb was always proud of his son Justin.

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## mrmando

Bonnie Raitt, Natalie Cole, Liza Minnelli, Rosanne Cash, Whitney Houston, Gillian Welch ... all had parents who were pro musicians although some of them aren't household names.

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## almeriastrings

> Judge for yourselves:


I can see what Willie means.....

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## Bernie Daniel

Well how about Harold "Hawkshaw" Hawkins jr. he might have his father's name but he can sing too!

Here he is singing his father's most famous hit, 7-7203 (it became a huge hit, #1 for a month, after Hawkshaw sr. was killed in the 1963 plane along with Patsy Cline) -- of course Junior also has some good genes coming from his mother, Jean Shepard I suppose!  :Smile: 

But I think he is a great singer -- he sounds a lot like his father actually and his only problem holding him back is that he sings REAL country music like his parents not the watered down country folk rock shlock so popular today.

Of interest too is the 7-7203 was written by Justin Tubb (Ernest's son) who was mentioned earlier in the string.

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FLATROCK HILL

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## Eric Michael Pfeiffer

> Don't forget Red Allen's boys...... they had it going on!  And Earl's boys weren't too bad either.  Gary is still a good session guitar picker. Wynn still picks some with Bobby Osborne.  And Reno's boys may have gone to the dark side for a decade or more but they are back stronger than ever doing their Daddy's songs.  Saw them at IBMA and they were getting it on pretty strong.  The jury is still out on George Hamiliton the V.  He stands beside his father on the Opry every other Sat. night singing at least one verse.  And while not related to bluegrass or country you got to love Lisa Marie Presley for giving it a try.  Merle Travis's son is a pretty good sound alike of his father.  And while you might not like Hank, Jr., you gotta admit Hank, III has it.  Ernest Tubb was always proud of his son Justin.


Didn't Red lose a few of his boys tragically? I don't remember which one...and I don't remember the circumstances but one of them was pretty young when he died. I have the Smithsonian recording with Red Allen and Frank Wakefield....that's pure bluegrass gold right there.....I especially love the recording of "New Camptown Races" and "Groundhog" that they did...

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## Russ Jordan

Neal Allen died in his 20's.  Harley Allen died in the last year or two, I guess in his early 50's.  Some of my favorite memories of the Denton NC festivals are of the Harley Allen/Mike Lilly Band---it was some mighty powerful bluegrass!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpt4ybttmK4

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Eric Michael Pfeiffer

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## Phil Goodson

Well, I agree with all of the comments above, but put yourself in the place of these folks.  If you grew up with all of the expectations heaped on you that these folks had, wouldn't you feel like you HAD to give it a try?   And if people actually bought tickets to your show and you took home some money, wouldn't you keep doing it for a while? :Frown: 

I don't know.  Maybe I'd be objective enough to see my failings and go in a new direction.  But I'm not really sure that's what would happen after living with the superstar father  for 20 years or so.  Some would say that taking advantage of an opportunity is a smart thing. :Confused:

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Philippe Bony

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## f5loar

That video of Hawk, Jr. sure is nice.  A little deeper voice than his famous Opry dad but spot on for real country music.  Also, I knew our own café Darryl Wolfe played the electric bass, but had no idea he was that good on it!  :Laughing:

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## Gary Hedrick

and I sure hope that chewing gum is good 'cause that gal is really chomping on it......a real classic show......he's in bluejeans and an old shirt.....she is in a an evening gown with tons of bling and "Darryl" is hardly paying attention to much of anything....

I spent many an hour playing in the background for just such music in the 60's ....

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## Willie Poole

Allen...No I wasn`t around in 1931, not quite, didn`t miss it by much though, so no wonder I never met Charlie Poole...I wasn`t sure about the date of his death, all I really knew about him was what was passed down through the family members and some recordings that are still around....he was such a distant relative that I wonder if I have any of his picking talents...

    Willie

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## Bernie Daniel

> That video of Hawk, Jr. sure is nice.  A little deeper voice than his famous Opry dad but spot on for real country music.  Also, I knew our own café Darryl Wolfe played the electric bass, but had no idea he was that good on it!


Well I did not know that was the esteemed Mr. Wolfe on bass!!   :Smile:   Cool.  It looked like the fiddler was trying to ask him a question -- like who is taking the break next, or something?

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## Ivan Kelsall

While we're discussing the offspring of well know musicians,i heard Ralph Stanley II the other day,& while he can pick & sing ok (IMHO),his voice is nothing like what i wish to hear in Bluegrass :- http://youtu.be/IdKrqhNf1sA   He's a C & W singer (or whatever you wish to call it). It's not a Bluegrass voice,so what !.I just wish that RS II had some of his father's vocal attributes. Nevertheless,
what he does he does well & far from living on _his_ father's name,he's popular in his own niche - i just wish ................,
                                                                                                                                                                       Ivan :Frown:

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## Ivan Kelsall

Sorry guys - had a glitch - double post,
                                                    Ivan :Redface:

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## almeriastrings

> It's not a Bluegrass voice


No... but good in its own right. Sounds a bit like Merle Haggard, to me....

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## Bernie Daniel

> While we're discussing the offspring of well know musicians,i heard Ralph Stanley II the other day,& while he can pick & sing ok (IMHO),his voice is nothing like what i wish to hear in Bluegrass :- http://youtu.be/IdKrqhNf1sA   He's a C & W singer (or whatever you wish to call it). It's not a Bluegrass voice,so what !.I just wish that RS II had some of his father's vocal attributes. Nevertheless,
> what he does he does well & far from living on _his_ father's name,he's popular in his own niche - i just wish ................,
>                                                                                                                                                                        Ivan


Ivan, here he is on 40 minute set of some more typical BG songs with instruments -- definitely not like the original Ralph Carter but he is developing a following -- I guess he gave up trying to play mandolin  :Smile: 



BTW I often hear him refer to his "father's name" but he is Ralph Carter II and the "original" is his *grand*father I think?    They left a generation out I think.  :Smile: 

Some awesome mandolin work by John Rigsby starting around 8:30!!

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## re simmers

BOJ doesn't sound good at all.    But he's no worse than at least 1/2 the bands on stage at most bluegrass festivals.....with the exceptions of the more expensive big name festivals.    Bluegrass stages are filled with less than acceptable vocals.    Doesn't matter what their name is!

As for children, I saw Marty's son, Ronnie Robbins several years ago.    Ronnie can sing like a pro....extremely close to Marty; he's a studio quality picker, and a great showman.

Bob

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## Wolfboy

And let's not forget the late Merle Watson - he appeared perfectly content to remain in Doc's shadow all his life but he was a multifaceted and beautifully tasteful instrumentalist in his own right. One of my favorite musicians.

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Dagger Gordon, 

Timbofood

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## swampstomper

Great video of RSII doing a bluegrass thing. And Willie, the first song is a Charlie Poole composition re-arranged by the Stanley Bros.

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## AlanN

> BOJ doesn't sound good at all.    But he's no worse than at least 1/2 the bands on stage at most bluegrass festivals.....with the exceptions of the more expensive big name festivals.    Bluegrass stages are filled with less than acceptable vocals.    Doesn't matter what their name is!


Not sure about that, Bob. Even the regional/local bands at the festivals around here sound way better than he does. The man cannot carry a tune, so it seems.

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## re simmers

I need to come to North Carolina!

Thanks, Alan

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## Willie Poole

On RFD-TV every Sat. night they have a show called "Country`s Family Reunion" and one segment was with a lot of the off spring of famous country singers, I mean the real country singers...There were sons of Marty Robbins, Faron Young, George Hamiltom IV, and Roger Miller... Also some daughters of Hank Williams, Lynn Anderson and George Jones......Most of them were pretty good singers and did songs that their parents were famous for...They are now offering a bluegrass series for sale and will soon be putting it on TV as a showcase of what is in the package...

   RFD-TV is on Dish Network satellite  system as well as others....

   Willie

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## Cheryl Watson

Pitchy.  I've heard a LOT of pitchy singers and the poor quality audio of most You Tube videos really exaggerates it.





> Judge for yourselves:
> 
> 
> 
> Appears to have Bobby Sr.'s former physique, in any case.

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## Mike Bunting

It's not just pitchy, he can't phrase and can't breath properly.

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## Gary Hedrick

Just remember that George Morgan's daughter seems to have done ok .......in the singing and looks department. 

just had to fit that dirty old man comment in....

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## Gary Hedrick

Also there are a ton of sons of the Cincinnati to Columbus corridor that are great musicians......and yes I would clump the Allens and Osbornes in that definition but Dave Harvey.....Brian Aldridge are two that immediately come to mind...their fathers were top notch pickers of the day and their sons are too....

That area of the US has produced some of the best musicians .......and the festivals that I have attended over the years from that area have lots of folks that can outdo Bobby Jr.  period....

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## Cheryl Watson

I was trying to not be too critical, but you are correct, Mike.   :Grin: 




> It's not just pitchy, he can't phrase and can't breath properly.

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## allenhopkins

> Allen...No I wasn`t around in 1931, not quite, didn`t miss it by much though, so no wonder I never met Charlie Poole...I wasn`t sure about the date of his death, all I really knew about him was what was passed down through the family members and some recordings that are still around....he was such a distant relative that I wonder if I have any of his picking talents..


Well, Willie, you sure have _talent,_ regardless of where it came from.

If you want info on Charlie Poole, the two best sources I've seen are _Rambling Blues; The Life and Songs of Charlie Poole_ by Kinney Rorrer, published by Old Time Music in London UK in 1982 (Kinney Rorrer is the grand-nephew of Posey Rorrer, the club-footed fiddler who worked with Poole in the North Carolina Ramblers); and the liner notes to the multi-CD set _You Ain't Talkin' To Me: Charlie Poole and the Roots of Country Music,_ written by Henry "Hank" Sapoznik.  I believe those liner notes won a Grammy, though I'm not sure of it.

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## allenhopkins

Oh, and my favorite "two generations of talent": Billy Ray and Miley Cyrus.

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Charley wild, 

Gary Hedrick

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## onassis

> Oh, and my favorite "two generations of talent": Billy Ray and Miley Cyrus.


Aaah....so inspiring to see the next generation carry on the good work. :Smile:

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## FLATROCK HILL

> Well how about Harold "Hawkshaw" Hawkins jr. he might have his father's name but he can sing too!


Hawkins Jr. certainly inherited some talent as well as his dad's big voice. Sounds like he's doing Lonesome 77-203 a full step lower than the old man with no trouble at all. 




> Some awesome mandolin work by John Rigsby starting around 8:30!!


To my way of thinking, that mandolin work is fantastic! 'Bluesy' enough to give it some real 'feeling'...some crisp, clear fills and runs that don't detract from the melody. 
A great voice on a pretty tough song (The Old Old House) too. 

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, I agree with Willie 100%. Nothing mean or hateful, just the unfortunate truth. 
Not everyone is fortunate enough to inherit the 'talent' genes. I remember when John Carter Cash was born and I remember the first time I heard him sing. The experience was a bit anti-climatic.

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## Gary Hedrick

> Oh, and my favorite "two generations of talent": Billy Ray and Miley Cyrus.


Ah yes dear Miley.....I used to have a coon dog that would hang its tongue out like that ......very sexy indeed

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## Ivan Kelsall

Hi Bernie - I totally agree with your comments. Willie e-mailed me & told me that early in his career,RS II did have a more 'Grassy' tone to his voice. RS II is good in his own right for sure,but as i said,i wish that he did sound a lot more like his old man. When i listen to Ralph Stanley singing his version of 'Little Maggie' ('Hard Times' LP),i get goose bumps & i've always played the banjo on that song just like Ralph does. It's a great medium tempo song,with no mandolin part,so it's great to put your own break into,
                                                                                                                                                                    Ivan :Wink:

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## FLATROCK HILL

> When i listen to Ralph Stanley singing his version of 'Little Maggie' ('Hard Times' LP),i get goose bumps & i've always played the banjo on that song just like Ralph does. It's a great medium tempo song,with no mandolin part,so it's great to put your own break into, Ivan


I love that Ralph Stanley version too Ivan. Only problem is when I try to do it at a jam. I get as far as 'Over yonder staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnds.....and everyone else has moved on without me. :Frown:

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## AlanN

> I love that Ralph Stanley version too Ivan. Only problem is when I try to do it at a jam. I get as far as 'Over yonder staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnds.....and everyone else has moved on without me.


Yeah, with that tune and some others (Freeborn Man), it's key that the band members really listen and lock in to the singer, to follow where he/she is going. On the solos, the timing is usually straight, it's the sung verses where people can get fouled up.

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FLATROCK HILL

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## allenhopkins

And, when it's _your_ band, you can hold the note as long as you want.

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FLATROCK HILL

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## Ivan Kelsall

Hi Flatrock - That's one tune you really have to get 'into your head' to do it like RS. I've played it so many times on banjo that on mandolin,it's a breeze - well it is now i've played it dozens of times, :Grin: 
                                                                                         Ivan :Wink:

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FLATROCK HILL

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## Willie Poole

I know this sound backwards but when I used to smoke I had more breath and could hold those notes a tad longer than I could after I quit...Now I just go right to the short versions...

    Willie

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## tiltman

> I know this sound backwards but when I used to smoke I had more breath and could hold those notes a tad longer than I could after I quit...Now I just go right to the short versions...


...could it be that you were younger then?

 :Smile: 

Kirk

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