# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Swirly Ear Snapped Off - Normal Or...

## Twilo123

i open my case today and notice the swirly ear popped off of my Eastman MD315.  naturally i am freaking out.  i speak to my seller who says this is actually normal; that the swirly ears are too hard to make out of 1 piece of wood so they are 2 piece (glued on) with a piece of veneer over the top of the headstock to hold it all together basically.

can someone please confirm that this is true.  should i bother trying to ask about manufacturer warranty or should i just accept it as a normal occurance for people with swirly ear mandos...any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!




someone mentioned to me that bill monroe (i apologize as i am newbie and don't know him) also had the same issue.  looks like it here

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## mrmando

It's called a headstock scroll. Swirly ear sounds too much like something that happened in the boys' room in junior high.

You need to provide some more context. Did you buy this by post and open it for the first time to find the scroll broken off? If so, then that's shipping damage, and you and the seller should pursue an insurance claim with the shipper. If the seller failed to cushion the headstock during shipping, then he or she may be responsible to pay for the repair in the event that (a) the package wasn't insured or (b) an insurance claim is rejected. 

It's true that "wings" are often laminated onto headstocks before final carving, but that doesn't mean that breakage of a headstock scroll should be accepted as "normal." It's not. 

As for warranty, if you bought this new, Eastman may have a warranty that covers it. If you bought it secondhand, then warranty coverage is less likely.

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## Twilo123

> It's called a headstock scroll. Swirly ear sounds too much like something that happened in the boys' room in junior high.
> 
> You need to provide some more context. Did you buy this by post and open it for the first time to find the scroll broken off? If so, then that's shipping damage, and you and the seller should pursue an insurance claim with the shipper. If the seller failed to cushion the headstock during shipping, then he or she may be responsible to pay for the repair in the event that (a) the package wasn't insured or (b) an insurance claim is rejected. 
> 
> It's true that "wings" are often laminated onto headstocks before final carving, but that doesn't mean that breakage of a headstock scroll should be accepted as "normal." It's not. 
> 
> As for warranty, if you bought this new, Eastman may have a warranty that covers it. If you bought it secondhand, then warranty coverage is less likely.


thank you for providing me with the correct nomenclature.  i wasn't sure what to put hence the child description for lack of better terminology.  :Smile: 

i purchased this last December.  i have played the instrument about 40 times since i received it.  i keep it in a hard case and only play at home.  i purchased it new from a reputable online merchant who specializes in mandolins.  the person who answered the phone at the merchant when i called today told me the above.  i opened the hard case today and noticed the piece was off.  the only thing i can think of is when i put it back in the case and put the case away.  hardly a shocking jolt on the instrument i would think.  i have had acoustic guitars for 20 years and i have had plenty over that time with no issue.

as far as Eastman is concerned i went to their website and contact us only has a form; i could not find any phone number on the website which is strange to me.  i admit when i 1st purchased this mandolin i just went by reviews i saw online.  maybe i should have researched the manufacturer more.  it's just that there only seem to be a few mando manufacturers that i see people liking and Eastman always seems to be at or near the top of the list.  also for the amount of $ i spent on this for the headstock to snap off like that so easily i was shocked.  but again i am new to the mandolin world.  for all i know the more expensive a mandolin is the more fragile it is or something.

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## Rick Lindstrom

That's a common break in F-style mandolins, and is caused by what could be considered a shortcoming of the design- the grain of the wood in the headstock runs in the perfect direction to make that a weak area and liable to break when even a small impact happens there. All F mandos are vulnerable to that break unless the area has been explicitly reinforced to prevent it, and that is fairly rare, as evidenced by how often it happens.

Doubtful that the manufacturer would consider it a warranty item.

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## Twilo123

to top it off the break is totally clean.  i would think there might be some splintering.  nada.  totally clean break.

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## Twilo123

> That's a common break in F-style mandolins, and is caused by what could be considered a shortcoming of the design- the grain of the wood in the headstock runs in the perfect direction to make that a weak area and liable to break when even a small impact happens there. All F mandos are vulnerable to that break unless the area has been explicitly reinforced to prevent it, and that is fairly rare, as evidenced by how often it happens.
> 
> Doubtful that the manufacturer would consider it a warranty item.


Thanks Rick.  That's what the seller was saying.  I just wanted to confirm.  it is what it is.  i should have researched more before purchasing.

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## Timbofood

Common damage yes but, it does not just "happen".  These are almost always the result of an impact, maybe slight granted, but impact related usually.  I cannot speak for Eastman but many builders do reinforce that area for this very reason. Even PAC rim pieces from the '70's had some support. Sorry Rick, many companies DO consider this break, even as it does happen commonly.
Do not use "Gorilla glue" for repair, opinions of how to repair will doubtless follow within minutes.....

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## Marvino

I think a 1 5/8" drywall screw would do the trick. Of course dont forget to drill a pilot hole to avoid splitting.

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## journeybear

My Gibson F-12 sustained similar damage once, but it was the result of it dropping a few feet head first straight down onto bricks. It hit on the point, damaging the binding there, and nearly snapping the scroll off. My luthier was able to glue it together without much trouble. I would think this would be a job for glue as well, since its purpose is decorative, not structural, and shouldn't be under much physical stress. I don't understand why yours broke off, but it should be an easy repair.

Just so you know, Bill Monroe was about the most famous mandolin player in history, commonly referred to as The Father Of Bluegrass - may or may not have invented it all by himself, but surely popularized it - and is forever linked to bluegrass as its chief proponent. The instrument in the photo was damaged intentionally by himself in a dispute with Gibson over repairs done not to his liking. He broke off the headstock scroll and gouged the name "Gibson" out of the pegboard.

Good luck with it. Welcome to the Café!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Timbofood

Say, Marvino have you looked at the "Don't Do This" thread? :Laughing:

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## mrmando

The better cases will have extra cushioning in the headstock area to try to prevent this. A good luthier can fix this up almost like new.

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## Marvino

> Say, Marvino have you looked at the "Don't Do This" thread?



Yes, that is where I got the idea from.  :Grin:

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Dobe, 

Jerusalem Ridge, 

Michael Weaver, 

Timbofood

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## mrmando

> Bill Monroe yada yada The instrument in the photo was damaged intentionally by himself in a dispute with Gibson over repairs done not to his liking. He broke off the headstock scroll and gouged the name "Gibson" out of the pegboard.


Yes on the gouging, no on the scroll break. Separate incidents. Never heard anyone claim that the scroll break was intentional. 

The incidents did happen around the same time -- I don't know of a photo showing the break that does not also show the gouge. 

I don't know anything about Eastman's warranty policy, but if I were you I'd call your dealer back and try to press for some more details on that score. Dealers should have some information about warranties on products they sell.

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dang, 

Nevin

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## journeybear

Oh, OK. My bad.  :Redface:  The subject hasn't come up in so long, I forgot, if I ever knew, and I thought - well, I said what I thought.

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## journeybear

OK, good old Mandolin Café, mandolin info resource_ par excellence_. In a story written by Bill Graham, back when the headplate was coming up for auction:

_"About a year after the gouge, Siminoff said, Monroe fell with the mandolin and knocked the treble side scroll off the peghead."_

Later in the story, Graham says that in 1980, after Gibson reps had tried for quite a while to mend fences, Monroe let the company work on his mandolin again. They replaced the peghead veneer and restored the headstock scroll.

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## Julie M

I recently bought an Eastman 305 over another brand because I was told it had a lifetime warranty. Yours should have the same. If you can't find contact info for Eastman, contact your seller.

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## sblock

> thank you for providing me with the correct nomenclature.  i wasn't sure what to put hence the child description for lack of better terminology. 
> 
> ... i keep it in a hard case and only play at home.  i purchased it new from a reputable online merchant who specializes in mandolins.  the person who answered the phone at the merchant when i called today told me the above.  _i opened the hard case today and noticed the piece was off.  the only thing i can think of is when i put it back in the case and put the case away.  hardly a shocking jolt on the instrument i would think._  i have had acoustic guitars for 20 years and i have had plenty over that time with no issue.


Your characterization of the term "swirly ear" (!) as a "_child description_" leads me to offer a conjecture as to what might have happened.  Yes, headstock scrolls are fragile things, and they can certainly can be snapped off with enough force (even inside the case -- look at Pete Martin's avatar).  But they don't come off spontaneously! So -- _Do you have any children in your house_?  If so, I'd bet you that the headstock scroll came off when one of them picked up and dropped your case, or knocked into it accidentally but violently, or perhaps even removed the mandolin from its case.  Could that have happened?  Simply putting your mandolin away in its case, as you did, would not snap off the headstock scroll.  But those little gremlins are another thing altogether.  :Wink:

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## Timbofood

The guy who framed the original peghead veneer is the brother of my guitar player! I think there is a you tube story with Rendell Wall talking about the restoration project somewhere.
One of the interesting things about living in Kalamazoo! 
That break is so common, I would almost be surprised if it was covered by a warranty. Worth a shot but, they don't just break without some kind of impact.
BTW- I like the swirly ear nomenclature!

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## Rick Lindstrom

Twilo123- be sure to follow up this thread and let us know if the break gets handled by Eastman under the warranty.

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Timbofood

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## RichM

Many manufacturers do not work directly with customers, but expect their dealers to be the middleman in warranty claims-- so it is not unusual that Eastman is not easy to contact. Your dealer should really be the conduit between you and Eastman. That being said, whether this is a manufacturing flaw or due to impact, I wouldn't be surprised if Eastman won't cover it-- truth is, this almost always happens because of impact. As others have said, this would be a trivial repair for a competent luthier, and probably cost nearly nothing. You will probably have to stare at it to find the joint once repaired.

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## Michael Weaver

> Yes, that is where I got the idea from.


I love Dave Cohen's response:




> If you want to make an enemy out of every luthier on the planet, go ahead and use a drywall screw. If you want to make future repairs impossible, go ahead and use a drywall screw. And especially, if you want to greatly devalue your vintage mandolin, go ahead and use a drywall screw. If you want to make your headstock look terrible, go ahead and use a drywall screw.  I was gonna go on ranting, but I looked at what I said above and decided that I covered the subject.

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## Twilo123

so as i said earlier i don't even take the mando out of the house.  i basically take it out of the case and put it back in.  the only thing i can think of is sometimes i don't take it out of the case where it is laying.  in other words i may have the case on the ground and pick it up and put it on the couch to take out the mando, play it for a bit, pop it back in the case, and put the case back on the ground (or something similar).  this is the only time i can think of any chance for a hard contact but even then it shouldn't be that hard i would think (even so what is the hard case for if not to help brace on contact).  i didn't drop the case and i have no children or animals in my home.  as far as care i have 13 string instruments that i have taken care of over 20 years (pics here http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=358240) so i consider myself somewhat familiar with caring for string instruments.
i'm not throwing the mando around.  i love and deeply care for instruments as you can hopefully see from the pics in the url above.  for instance in the pics in the link above 2 people were standing just out of shot at all times in case any of the instruments moved.  it took me about 45 minutes just to setup enough that i was comfortable moving away from the instruments to take the pics.

as far as what happened i have no clue that is why i posted on here and called my dealer.  i don't have experience with mandolins specifically and while i could see it happening after the fact; i did not know that it could possibly break like this.  to top it off it was such a clean break that i felt suspect that this was 2 pieces to begin with and put together.  i see now that there is a veneer top on the headstock.  what need is there for a veneer top on a headstock? however again i am not a woodworker per se so i am asking.  i know enough to know i don't know anything in this case and am asking for people more knowledgable that myself to figure it out.

Based on the responses here i am wondering if i should call my dealer back and press for other options or even just keep googling Eastman until i can get a phone number and see what they say.

at the end of the day i was told that any luthier could easily put it back on but keep in mind that they are prone to breaking in this spot as it is a weak point and most likely will keep happening.  unless someone drills a dowl in to strengthen it (which we both agreed is ludicrous to do) i may want to just consider not reattaching it and calling it a day.  as was stated above it is cosmetic.  i just feel a little burned that i paid almost 4x my A style and have this kind of issue.

Thank you everyone for your replies.  Without replies here i would be totally lost as i have no experience in the mandolin arena...

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## Timbofood

Won't dispute your care taking, things happen. Maybe you should take it out for a ride now and then, a little fresh air can't hurt.

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## RichM

There is no reason not to keep pushing for a warranty repair; the worst they can do is say "no." As far a it being a weak point that will keep breaking, I heartily disagree. I have played F-style mandolins for 15 years now and never had one break. I don't doubt that your mandolin didn't suffer any trauma, but it's pretty rare for a peghead scroll just to drop off on its own accord. On the other hand, it doesn't take a whole lot of impact to break one off, which is why it's a common repair. If it's reglued, I sincerely doubt it would break again, unless subjected to impact.

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## Twilo123

> I recently bought an Eastman 305 over another brand because I was told it had a lifetime warranty. Yours should have the same. If you can't find contact info for Eastman, contact your seller.


i did contact my seller and they told me it is common damage and not warrantied.

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## Twilo123

> The better cases will have extra cushioning in the headstock area to try to prevent this. A good luthier can fix this up almost like new.


i think i got a good case.  anyone who sees pics of it says it looks like a good hard case.  i will post some pics

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## Twilo123

> Won't dispute your care taking, things happen. Maybe you should take it out for a ride now and then, a little fresh air can't hurt.


i have about 5 families worth of children to take out for rides. lol.  right now i do not have much experience with one and have not found anyone in my area to jam with for mandolin (not that i have looked extra hard either so it's my fault).  so basically i jam at home and learn on youtube videos.  and so my other children tend to get out more right now.  hopefully that will change as i meet other mandolin players in my area.  to tell u the truth i am really hot for an irish bouzouki right now.  i just found out about them about a month ago and have been going crazy wanting one since.  thing is wife kills me on shoes and purses every time i go instrument crazy so i have to be patient for now.  :Smile: 

videos like these really get me going for them.  jack spira (the guy in the 1st video) has a really nice bouzouki in the vid below.  i also like this luthier's work http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/bouzouki/
http://www.herbtaylor.com/instrument...i/gallery.html

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## Twilo123

here are a couple of pics of the case
Attachment 125037
Attachment 125038

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## Twilo123

also can i use the hard case for other mandolin?  this hard case came with the Eastman.  it looks like it is at least cutout for F style.  i did lay my MK A style and closed it up fine.  would it be ok to transport my A style in this case once i start going out.  The Eastman i would probably want to keep home more as it is more expensive and now i know i have possible breaking issue(s) to look out for.
Attachment 125039

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## Twilo123

> My Gibson F-12 sustained similar damage once, but it was the result of it dropping a few feet head first straight down onto bricks. It hit on the point, damaging the binding there, and nearly snapping the scroll off. My luthier was able to glue it together without much trouble. I would think this would be a job for glue as well, since its purpose is decorative, not structural, and shouldn't be under much physical stress. I don't understand why yours broke off, but it should be an easy repair.
> 
> Just so you know, Bill Monroe was about the most famous mandolin player in history, commonly referred to as The Father Of Bluegrass - may or may not have invented it all by himself, but surely popularized it - and is forever linked to bluegrass as its chief proponent. The instrument in the photo was damaged intentionally by himself in a dispute with Gibson over repairs done not to his liking. He broke off the headstock scroll and gouged the name "Gibson" out of the pegboard.
> 
> Good luck with it. Welcome to the Café!


Thanks for the welcome Journeybear!  again i don't doubt that some force broke it off.  most likely when i put it in the case and put the case on the ground or something similar.  i know this probably sounds sick but i am actually relieved that it is a normal thing and not some crazy bs i am going through.  good to know i am not alone lol.  as far as fixing i will definitely either leave it as is or get a proper luthier to fix.  i paid way to much money to try to diy quick fix it lol.

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## Twilo123

> Common damage yes but, it does not just "happen".  These are almost always the result of an impact, maybe slight granted, but impact related usually.  I cannot speak for Eastman but many builders do reinforce that area for this very reason. Even PAC rim pieces from the '70's had some support. Sorry Rick, many companies DO consider this break, even as it does happen commonly.
> Do not use "Gorilla glue" for repair, opinions of how to repair will doubtless follow within minutes.....


Agreed Timbo.  i don't believe for a second it fell off by ozmosis.  i just 1. was not expecting it to happen, 2. was shocked/saddened when something i paid a good amount of $ for broke like that, 3. wanted to know more about the damage and situation i have gotten myself into, 4. wanted to find some information on options i had to remedy it, 5. wanted a warm, fuzzy place i could come to where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came. You wanna be where you can see, our troubles are all the same, you wanna be where everyone knows your name  :Smile:

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## allenhopkins

1. Twilo, whether you can recall the incident, or whether you even noticed it, the kind of break you're showing is almost invariably the result of some kind of impact.  If it occurred when the mandolin was cased, the case may well fit too tightly around the headstock.  I had a Canadian-built shaped case for my Gibson F-2 three-point, which has a slightly longer body than later Gibson F-models, and the headstock rested against the side of the case.   As a result, the small scroll -- the one on the opposite side of the headstock from your broken one -- broke off twice, both times just from setting the case down a bit more forcefully than usual.  I moved on to a rectangular case with plenty of internal room.

2. Since these breaks are nearly always "damage," rather than "defective design or workmanship," getting them covered by warranty is problematical.  Balancing this is the fact that it's a simple, straightforward, often-done repair, and won't cost you very much.  I'd just get it done by a good repair shop; if you cost out your time dealing with an on-line dealer, Eastman Strings, _et.al.,_ you'll find that you're spending more time and effort than the cost of the repair.

3. A very high percentage of mid- to high-range mandolins have a headstock veneer, often ebony.  Basically this is cosmetic, since the dark veneer shows off the inlaid logo.  The veneer's not there to "hold it all together."  However, it's true that many headstocks are assembled from several pieces of wood, and it's _possible,_ though unlikely, that the scroll could have been insufficiently glued to the remainder of the headstock.  If you take it to a good repair tech, and he/she diagnosis a failed glue joint as the cause of the breakage, you would have a better warranty case.

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## EdHanrahan

Nobody has commented on this...




> to top it off the break is totally clean.  i would think there might be some splintering.  nada.  totally clean break.


... but that's an excellent condition to be in, ensuring that any proper repair will hold tight.  Do be aware that a _proper_ repair, with a good fit (check!), good glue, and adequate clamping, will be stronger than the surrounding wood.  So when it breaks the next time, it won't be the glue that let go.

Your case may be a good one but it's still possible that inadequate neck control / padding allows the scroll to contact the inside of the case wall. Heck, even a particularly narrow neck could allow that level of movement, where a wider-neck instrument might sit there fairly snug. Sadly, I know that one first hand!

Unfortunately, "properly" clamping the broken scroll into place (with its odd angles & curved surfaces) is close to impossible without some pretty good level of equipment & experience.  I'm pretty handy at most repairs but, for cosmetics, did take that one to a professional.

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## Bertram Henze

> ...thing is wife kills me on shoes...


You'll find the Cafe is full of advice on how to deal with that. Addicts find ways around any obstacle.  :Wink:

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## Bertram Henze

> to top it off the break is totally clean.  i would think there might be some splintering.


That's a break along the direction of wood fiber (as opposed to across). Takes much less force to break this way, so it happens easily and often.

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## journeybear

I don't know what you did wrong when you tried to post photos. Here's my method:

Click on the icon above the message pane, third from the right. When the "Insert Image" window pops up, select "From Computer," then "Basic Uploader." "Choose file" opens a window to browse through your computer to the image. And upload. Once the image code string is in your message pane you can move it around to suit your layout ideas. If for some reason you want to delete an image, you may have to do more than delete the code string, but also "Go Advanced" and delete it through "Manage Attachments."

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Hudmister

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## Paul Kotapish

Here's a fully illustrated essay on how Frank Ford, pretty much the master at these kinds of repairs, handles the restoration a peghead scroll break.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...kenscroll.html

Not for timid, but not impossible if you set up a jig with a Dremel or a have a customized router mill handy. Or you could just stop with the glue phase and hope for the best.

Good luck.

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## dang

Or you can just leave it off.  
Kinda makes you look like a road warrior or something.  

If it were me I would makeup a story like "I lost the small scroll in an epic naval battle involving no less then a dozen banjos, several penny whistles and a harpsichord..."

Check out Thile's Dude:

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## Ron McMillan

The new 'Swirly Ear' designation gets my vote.

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Timbofood

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## Pete Jenner

> jack spira (the guy in the 1st video) has a really nice bouzouki in the vid below.




If that's Jack Spira I'll eat my crown of thorns. Jack made the bouzouki.
I hope your caps key gets better soon.

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## dang

> If that's Jack Spira I'll eat my crown of thorns.


I think you are safe this time, but next time I would like to suggest a Mandolin Cafe baseball hat instead.

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Pete Jenner

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## Bernie Daniel

> I think a 1 5/8" drywall screw would do the trick. Of course dont forget to drill a pilot hole to avoid splitting.


Hey I assume that was meant as  joke but you are dealing with a self-admitted mandolin newbie here.  

Twilo123 I think what he meant was NEVER do this for the repair!   :Smile:

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## Pribar

> I think a 1 5/8" drywall screw would do the trick. Of course dont forget to drill a pilot hole to avoid splitting.


Noooooo, everyone knows for this type repair you must use gorilla glue backed up with a horseshoe nail. That way you don't need the pilot hole

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Dobe, 

Hudmister, 

Marvino, 

Timbofood

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## Timbofood

Good catch Ed, since the break is clean, the repair should be a little easier for a competent shopman(woman).
I understand the shock and awe when this kind of mysterious damage happens, it's happened to me before, will again I am sure. The thing is now, get it repaired because you will feel better about it and everyone wants their swirly ear to look right! Well, I do. :Grin: 
Hey Twilo, welcome to the cafe and all it's foibles. Sometimes things get pretty silly, occasionally a little heated but, we all play in at least similar pools though not always the same one. You will learn many things here, some may even help! :Laughing:

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## Kowboy

After watching the video of CT, I'm set to wondering. CT makes the broken mandolin look so very perfect while he is playing it. If I did not know better, I'd be wanting that very same mandolin. That headstock would be the one I'd crave. I'd change nothing about it. It just makes me wonder why some cutting edge luthier has not yet built an F model to commemorate this famous yet slightly altered beast. Take us back to The Master of all Bluegrass Music who played one of these models proudly. Yes even Bill Monroe, would approve.

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## Bertram Henze

> If that's Jack Spira I'll eat my crown of thorns.


You'll have to admit that whoever recorded that video gave it a misleading caption, in fact you have to read the whole description carefully to find out who did what and why.

But while you're at it, you could help the OP doing the repair with those three nails of yours.

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Pete Jenner

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## Rick Lindstrom

The trick is to eschew F style mandolins! Problem solved. All that frou-frou is just eyewash anyway. Nothing like the clean, beautiful lines of an A style! LOL

 :Laughing:

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Marvino, 

mrmando

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## journeybear

Rest assured, the F-Style Squad of the Bluegrass Police have learned of your subversive attitude and they will be knocking at your door right quick!

That said, it's true; the scroll is a lot to pay extra for if all you are getting is some fancy looks and a strap hanger.  :Wink:  The OP himself said something earlier about the price of this instrument compared to his A style. But he has what he has, and now has to deal with it.

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## Marvino

> Hey I assume that was meant as  joke but you are dealing with a self-admitted mandolin newbie here.  
> 
> Twilo123 I think what he meant was NEVER do this for the repair!


Sorry, I should have used an appropriate emoticon. It wasnt meant to take serious.  :Redface:

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## Willie Poole

The same thing happened to one of my f models and I just glued it back together with Elmers glue and it has been that way for about 12 years with no more breaks...I would guess that it was a bad glue joint to start with but there is no way to prove that and get free warranty work done on it....By all means get it fixed and keep playing it and I bet it will never happen again....

    Willie

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## AlanN

This is getting dangerously close to an A vs. F thing. Surely, next up to come into play is blue chip, soon to be followed by chop or no chop.

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## journeybear

Lawdy!  :Disbelief:  I hope not. That's one reason I mentioned the OP had already addressed that issue. Too subtle? Probably ...  :Whistling:

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## Timbofood

JB, who said you were subtle? Sure wasn't me! I don't think I really know the meenin' o'dat word!

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## journeybear

*I* did! Guess it's so - went right over your head!  :Laughing: 

BTW, Willie - Elmer's glue?  :Disbelief:  Wow! I'd have used some sort of wood glue. Might have done so on mine, but the break was uneven, and it was mostly hanging on the veneer. It was pretty weird, too, since the point of impact was the point, and the scroll broke as a result of the vibration/shock wave sent through the wood. My best guess, anyway.  :Confused:  My luthier charged me only about ten bucks. Man, I miss that guy.

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## Bill Snyder

Elmers makes a very good wood glue. It is comparable to Titebond.

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Dobe

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## journeybear

Right. That's what's sitting in my drawer - think it's called Carpenter's Wood Glue. I just thought if he said "Elmer's" he meant the usual stuff.

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## Bill Snyder

:Smile:

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## Rick Lindstrom

Actually, Elmer's white glue (Glue-All) isn't half bad for this type of repair. Maybe not as strong as Tite Bond, but probably stronger than the wood. Not that a lot of strength is needed in that particular location.

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## Timbofood

Isn't Elmer's "Glue-All" a simple casein milk based glue (made by Bordens?) consequently, a fairly benign adhesive? The yellow "Carpenter's" stuff is more like Titebond, yeah you're right. (Texas Fred on the music station!) 
JB, I am usually as subtle as a sledgehammer.  :Grin:

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## Rick Lindstrom

Elmer's white glue and TiteBond yellow wood glue are both polyvinyl acetate (PVA) glues. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate

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## Timbofood

Oh snot! I started something I did not intend! 
I think I had best run to my corner and hide!
I am not going to get into this!!! 
The arms of Morpheus are calling.... 
Truly I am not trying to start any sort of adhesive "twitch fest" 
Good night, all.

----------


## Twilo123

> 1. Twilo, whether you can recall the incident, or whether you even noticed it, the kind of break you're showing is almost invariably the result of some kind of impact.  If it occurred when the mandolin was cased, the case may well fit too tightly around the headstock.  I had a Canadian-built shaped case for my Gibson F-2 three-point, which has a slightly longer body than later Gibson F-models, and the headstock rested against the side of the case.   As a result, the small scroll -- the one on the opposite side of the headstock from your broken one -- broke off twice, both times just from setting the case down a bit more forcefully than usual.  I moved on to a rectangular case with plenty of internal room.
> 
> 2. Since these breaks are nearly always "damage," rather than "defective design or workmanship," getting them covered by warranty is problematical.  Balancing this is the fact that it's a simple, straightforward, often-done repair, and won't cost you very much.  I'd just get it done by a good repair shop; if you cost out your time dealing with an on-line dealer, Eastman Strings, _et.al.,_ you'll find that you're spending more time and effort than the cost of the repair.
> 
> 3. A very high percentage of mid- to high-range mandolins have a headstock veneer, often ebony.  Basically this is cosmetic, since the dark veneer shows off the inlaid logo.  The veneer's not there to "hold it all together."  However, it's true that many headstocks are assembled from several pieces of wood, and it's _possible,_ though unlikely, that the scroll could have been insufficiently glued to the remainder of the headstock.  If you take it to a good repair tech, and he/she diagnosis a failed glue joint as the cause of the breakage, you would have a better warranty case.


Thank you Allen.  Very informative.  For the case i don't see myself buying a new one as i just bought this one specifically with that case.  i wonder if there is some test i could do to see if it is stressing inside the case.  i guess i could try to put a small camera in there and videotape what is happening when i close the case and handle it.  for point #2 i suspect that will be stuck leaving it as is or getting a local luthier to fix it.  i did try to contact Eastman directly as my dealer just said it's not covered.  Who knows maybe Eastman will be gracious enough to remedy the situation.  fingers crossed right.  Not sure how they are as a company to deal with but i will find out soon enough.  and then i will know for the future.  not just about what they do with this situation but how they deal with it.  for #3 i didn't even realize it had a veneer until after this issue and i spoke to the dealer about it.  i'm not sure you need to veneer a whole headstock just to show off a logo but to each their own right.  the help to keep multiple pieces together made more sense to me but i need to research how often this is true now that i know.
anyways thanks for the reply man.  very informative and much appreciated!

----------


## Twilo123

> You'll find the Cafe is full of advice on how to deal with that. Addicts find ways around any obstacle.


yea i am seeing plenty of advice on this thread.  it's nice to know there are people willing to take the time out to educate a newbie and provide some sensible (and nonsensible) options!  as far as finding ways around any obstacle if nothing else i will take this situation as an inspired creation...like they did on family guy

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## Twilo123

> I don't know what you did wrong when you tried to post photos. Here's my method:
> 
> Click on the icon above the message pane, third from the right. When the "Insert Image" window pops up, select "From Computer," then "Basic Uploader." "Choose file" opens a window to browse through your computer to the image. And upload. Once the image code string is in your message pane you can move it around to suit your layout ideas. If for some reason you want to delete an image, you may have to do more than delete the code string, but also "Go Advanced" and delete it through "Manage Attachments."


i'm not sure i understand what you're saying this for.  can you not see my pictures?  i can see all of the pictures in my posts...

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## Twilo123

> Here's a fully illustrated essay on how Frank Ford, pretty much the master at these kinds of repairs, handles the restoration a peghead scroll break.
> 
> http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...kenscroll.html
> 
> Not for timid, but not impossible if you set up a jig with a Dremel or a have a customized router mill handy. Or you could just stop with the glue phase and hope for the best.
> 
> Good luck.


awesome thanks!  i am definitely not qualified to do that kind of work but great to know what a professional will have to go through to fix it.

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## Twilo123

> The new 'Swirly Ear' designation gets my vote.


guess i got a new one for the urban mandolin dictionary!  i knew people were gonna LMFAO but couldn't think of a better way to describe it at the time lol

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## Bill Snyder

After your first set of photos none of the others show up.
As far as this being a warranty repair it really should not be. It was most likely not the result of poor workmanship or materials.
Since you question the use of a veneer on the headstock you should know that MOST arch top mandolins and many guitars use a decorative headstock veneer. Not for strength but for the aesthetic appeal they offer.

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## journeybear

I was referring to posts # 28 and #29, which display links that go nowhere - eg., Attachment 125037 - rather than photos, on my computer, at least. 

This is a photo of the gouged-out veneer from Bill Monroe's mandolin, mentioned earlier. It's fair to assume the gouging went into the headstock as well; whether that was filled in or just covered over when the veneer was replaced, someone more knowledgeable than I can answer. It's pretty cool, though. I forget how much it fetched at auction nearly five years ago.



You could always leave your headstock as is, and tell people it's an homage to Bill Monroe. People who are new to the mandolin may give you puzzled looks, but those familiar with the stiry will nod knowingly, and think you are way cool.  :Cool: 

In the future, when you start a thread, please don't leave it alone too long. Left to our imaginations  long enough, we have a tendency to veer off into tangents, go around the bend, and over the edge into the deep end.  :Disbelief:  It can get pretty wacko pretty fast.  :Wink:  This is not to say you are in any way, shape, or form responsible for the way these things go, but a bit of guidance from the OP can go a long way toward reeling everyone else back from the edge of the abyss. Thanks!  :Cool:

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## Twilo123

> Good catch Ed, since the break is clean, the repair should be a little easier for a competent shopman(woman).
> I understand the shock and awe when this kind of mysterious damage happens, it's happened to me before, will again I am sure. The thing is now, get it repaired because you will feel better about it and everyone wants their swirly ear to look right! Well, I do.
> Hey Twilo, welcome to the cafe and all it's foibles. Sometimes things get pretty silly, occasionally a little heated but, we all play in at least similar pools though not always the same one. You will learn many things here, some may even help!


Tks Timbofood!  Looks like i will fit in fine (eventually).  never gonna live down this 'swirly ear' lol  :Laughing:

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## Twilo123

> The trick is to eschew F style mandolins! Problem solved. All that frou-frou is just eyewash anyway. Nothing like the clean, beautiful lines of an A style! LOL


lol, like many people i love the design of the F style but if i knew about this type of issue with the headstock i would have thought twice about getting one.  or at least researched more to see which manufacturers protect it more than others.  last thing i enjoy doing is purchasing something for a good chunk of dough only to see it break just from regular handling.  i could understand if i dropped it or through it against the wall or something but this situation makes me believe the unit is structurally weak.

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## journeybear

> i could understand if i dropped it or through it against the wall or something but this situation makes me believe the unit is structurally weak.


Yeah, it does seem odd, as if you got a lemon, but hopefully just where this is concerned. And this is just cosmetic, and doesn't affect the sound or functioning of the rest of the instrument. It may affect the resale value, though, if that ever becomes an issue, and that *would* be a drag.

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## Twilo123

> Rest assured, the F-Style Squad of the Bluegrass Police have learned of your subversive attitude and they will be knocking at your door right quick!
> 
> That said, it's true; the scroll is a lot to pay extra for if all you are getting is some fancy looks and a strap hanger.  The OP himself said something earlier about the price of this instrument compared to his A style. But he has what he has, and now has to deal with it.


yea i mean as far as sound (which is the main reason i purchase an instrument) i always understood in wood instruments it was most about the wood types (solid, lam, spruce, maple, rosewood, etc.), placement (top/back/sides/neck/etc.).  then other pieces like soundhole, nut types, bridge, strings, etc.  i mean the F style is definitely an eye catcher although the A style has a nice, clean look also.  The price of my particular instruments just happen to work out that way.  i would assume there are the same prices for both F and A style out there depending on what you want/get.

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## Twilo123

> The same thing happened to one of my f models and I just glued it back together with Elmers glue and it has been that way for about 12 years with no more breaks...I would guess that it was a bad glue joint to start with but there is no way to prove that and get free warranty work done on it....By all means get it fixed and keep playing it and I bet it will never happen again....
> 
>     Willie


bad glue joint?  so the manufacturer may have glue the piece on where mine broke?  is the swirly ear (lol) a common glue point on multiple piece headstocks?

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## Twilo123

> here are a couple of pics of the case
> Attachment 125037
> Attachment 125038

----------

journeybear

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## Twilo123

> also can i use the hard case for other mandolin?  this hard case came with the Eastman.  it looks like it is at least cutout for F style.  i did lay my MK A style and closed it up fine.  would it be ok to transport my A style in this case once i start going out.  The Eastman i would probably want to keep home more as it is more expensive and now i know i have possible breaking issue(s) to look out for.
> Attachment 125039

----------

journeybear

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## Twilo123

> After your first set of photos none of the others show up.
> As far as this being a warranty repair it really should not be. It was most likely not the result of poor workmanship or materials.
> Since you question the use of a veneer on the headstock you should know that MOST arch top mandolins and many guitars use a decorative headstock veneer. Not for strength but for the aesthetic appeal they offer.


1. photos uploaded again.  hopefully fixed.  last time i used tinypic url instead of directly upload. i am used to guitar forum where u can't directly upload so i use ############ in that case and reference url.  i can see the attachments myself as links but i guess for others it doesn't work.  i reuploaded directly now.
2. if there is no design defect then yes i totally agree.  if there is however then i have to respectfully disagree.  just because it's common doesn't excuse it as a design defect (if it indeed is).  that's like someone who is kidnapped and over time they come to love the kidnapper (happening because they become used to the the wrongness.  the wrongness becomes normal to them over time).  now should i have buyers beware - one could argue that.  but in that case the manufacturer should list that along with the nice, pretty specs they write to push a product (oh mine has solid top not lam, etc.).
3. again if this is just decorative then so be it.  i learn something new everyday and welcome the knowledge.  i am profoundly awed by what luthiers put into producing a product and constantly astounding as i learn new things about their methods.  in fact i was just posting the other day on the guitar forum how i was totally blown away by the luthier video below.  extremely well produced and a ton of knowledge into what goes into making these instruments (without going into too much detail to lose a layperson like me).

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## Twilo123

> I was referring to posts # 28 and #29, which display links that go nowhere - eg., Attachment 125037 - rather than photos, on my computer, at least. 
> 
> This is a photo of the gouged-out veneer from Bill Monroe's mandolin, mentioned earlier. It's fair to assume the gouging went into the headstock as well; whether that was filled in or just covered over when the veneer was replaced, someone more knowledgeable than I can answer. It's pretty cool, though. I forget how much it fetched at auction nearly five years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> You could always leave your headstock as is, and tell people it's an homage to Bill Monroe. People who are new to the mandolin may give you puzzled looks, but those familiar with the stiry will nod knowingly, and think you are way cool. 
> 
> In the future, when you start a thread, please don't leave it alone too long. Left to our imaginations  long enough, we have a tendency to veer off into tangents, go around the bend, and over the edge into the deep end.  It can get pretty wacko pretty fast.  This is not to say you are in any way, shape, or form responsible for the way these things go, but a bit of guidance from the OP can go a long way toward reeling everyone else back from the edge of the abyss. Thanks!


sorry journey i didn't realize the thread is going so long.  during the day i may be busy and not be able to get back to the post.  in fact i spent the day at a kids amusement farm with my nephews and nieces today.  long drive and didn't get back until late tonight.  to top if off wife defo wants me/her time on Sat night.  her going to sleep was really the 1st time i had to get back to this thread. i can see how things veer real fast around here though lol.  hey hopefully i brought some laughs to the community with my 'swirly ear' post.  i somehow get the feeling that i will be hearing that for some time as i stick around on here. haha  :Disbelief:

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## Twilo123

> Yeah, it does seem odd, as if you got a lemon, but hopefully just where this is concerned. And this is just cosmetic, and doesn't affect the sound or functioning of the rest of the instrument. It may affect the resale value, though, if that ever becomes an issue, and that *would* be a drag.


i try to stick away from reselling when possible so i hope to keep this mando a long time.  remember this is my 1st mandolin so it has sentimental value nevermind it is supposed to be a decent starter mando that can be kept well into intermediate status.

anyways i will post back my results with Eastman after i hear back from them.  i found their main website as opposed to the mandolin one and that one had a phone number in Cali.  They are closed on weekends so i will follow up Monday and see what they say.  i also filled in their form on their website so hopefully someone will see it Monday and contact me.  that would be ideal.  1. it would show that someone actually reads the forms that people spend time filling out on their websites (this was a support page form), 2. it would show they are really on top of their game in the support department.  i'm not sure about the mando market but in the guitar market customer service is what sets apart many manufacturers and 3rd party dealer/resellers as the market is mature and standarized for many of things that go into a general, decent instrument.

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## journeybear

As I said, our goofiness is not your responsibility. It just seems sometimes, that the OP is the only one who can reel folks back in to the sensible zone, owing to him/her being the only one who really knows what's going on. Everybody else's input is necessarily colored by varying degrees of conjecture, assumption, and guesswork. Eh, ain't no big thing. Most of the time, folks around here are good-natured and good-humored.

I mentioned the resale value just because it would be a lot easier to address the repair issue now, soon after it occurred and while it may still be under warranty, than some time further down the road. But you'd want to get it fixed promptly anyway, of course.  :Wink:

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## Bill Snyder

You want to get it fixed as soon as you can because the longer the break is exposed the dirtier and more oxidized the surfaces become and the harder it will be to get a good glue job.

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## Ron McMillan

are we really still talking about this?

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Pete Jenner

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## Jim Adwell

Little known fact: the famous Hawaiian musician and song writer Don Ho was also the creator and primary advocate of Hawaiian/Bluegrass fusion, which he invented in 1951 after performing with Bill Monroe in Codswallop, Missouri.  He wrote the eponymous (and only) H/B fusion tune "Swirly Ears" in honor of Bill Monroe's mandolin, or perhaps Bill himself; history is silent on this matter.  Unfortunately, the new genre failed to attract any followers, and was quickly abandoned after the first performance of "Swirly Ears" caused the entire town of Codswallop to disappear into a black hole.

True story.

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## Dobe

Sit down with some wood glue and hold it together for a good 30-45 minutes. You don't need any fancy jigs.  A little wet rag cleanup and your done; let dry overnight, now start picking and stop fretting ?
Oh yeah, love the swirly thing !

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## Pete Jenner

> now start picking and stop fretting...


That would limit him/her to four notes.

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## Rick Lindstrom

> Sit down with some wood glue and hold it together for a good 30-45 minutes. You don't need any fancy jigs.  A little wet rag cleanup and your done; let dry overnight, now start picking and stop fretting ?
> Oh yeah, love the swirly thing !


Yeah- like Dobe says, do this and get on with it. Put a small dab glue (white or yellow- your choice) on either side of the break, spread it a little with a finger tip, then fit it together carefully with a little pressure. Wipe off the squeeze-out with a damp paper towel, and then let it sit for a few hours. Good glue joints, which this should be since it's a clean break, tend to pull themselves together a little as they dry. You could use a little masking tape to hold everything together, but the piece is so light that there's little chance that it'll fall off while the glue cures. BTW- this is probably pretty much what a luthier would do if you took it somewhere for repair.

Ooops- I probably offended the traditionalists because I didn't mention hide glue. You could use that too, but it seems like a lot of trouble for such a small break if you're not already set up to do it. 

I'm surprised that John Hamlett and some of the other luthiery luminaries haven't chimed into this thread. Maybe they are sick of the subject of broken headstock scrolls since it seems to reappear about once a month.

And no, your mandolin isn't defective or deficient in any way. Broken headstock scrolls are a quirk of the design and a risk you assume if you want to fool with F-style mandolins.

 :Wink:

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## Dobe

> That would limit him/her to four notes.


He can get a few more than that with harmonics, those frets just confuse me !

----------

Pete Jenner

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## journeybear

I was thinking a rubber band or two - tight but not too tight - but, yeah, DIY.  :Wink:

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## sunburst

> ...I'm surprised that John Hamlett and some of the other luthiery luminaries haven't chimed into this thread. Maybe they are sick of the subject of broken headstock scrolls since it seems to reappear about once a month...


Maybe that, and maybe they see a thread that has stretched out to 4 pages, and they can't imaging reading all that to see what has and hasn't been said.
The reason for using hide glue, BTW is for the next time the scroll breaks off. It will be easier to once again get a good glue joint if some other kind of glue doesn't have to be cleaned off.

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## Rick Lindstrom

Hey John- good to see you. You popped in really quick. Is there some feature of the forum that alerts you when your name is posted?

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## sunburst

Yep, the search feature. Once in a while I search my own name just to see if there are any fires I need to put out, or anything I otherwise feel like I should attend to.

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## Pete Jenner

Occasionally I google my own name. There ...now my secret is out.

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## journeybear

Past: I think, therefore I am.
Present: I show up in a search engine, therefore I am.

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## Bertram Henze

> Past: I think, therefore I am.
> Present: I show up in a search engine, therefore I am.


Considering the infinite memory of the web, I'd put the latter "I show up in a search engine, therefore I have been." The same could be said about tombstones.

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## Twilo123

> are we really still talking about this?


it appears so Ron.  you're more than welcome to move on. thanks for your input though.  spot on as always.

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## Twilo123

> Little known fact: the famous Hawaiian musician and song writer Don Ho was also the creator and primary advocate of Hawaiian/Bluegrass fusion, which he invented in 1951 after performing with Bill Monroe in Codswallop, Missouri.  He wrote the eponymous (and only) H/B fusion tune "Swirly Ears" in honor of Bill Monroe's mandolin, or perhaps Bill himself; history is silent on this matter.  Unfortunately, the new genre failed to attract any followers, and was quickly abandoned after the first performance of "Swirly Ears" caused the entire town of Codswallop to disappear into a black hole.
> 
> True story.


haha loving it Jim.  i actually wish it was true so i wouldn't be stuck with this. lol

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## Twilo123

> Yeah- like Dobe says, do this and get on with it. Put a small dab glue (white or yellow- your choice) on either side of the break, spread it a little with a finger tip, then fit it together carefully with a little pressure. Wipe off the squeeze-out with a damp paper towel, and then let it sit for a few hours. Good glue joints, which this should be since it's a clean break, tend to pull themselves together a little as they dry. You could use a little masking tape to hold everything together, but the piece is so light that there's little chance that it'll fall off while the glue cures. BTW- this is probably pretty much what a luthier would do if you took it somewhere for repair.
> 
> Ooops- I probably offended the traditionalists because I didn't mention hide glue. You could use that too, but it seems like a lot of trouble for such a small break if you're not already set up to do it. 
> 
> I'm surprised that John Hamlett and some of the other luthiery luminaries haven't chimed into this thread. Maybe they are sick of the subject of broken headstock scrolls since it seems to reappear about once a month.
> 
> And no, your mandolin isn't defective or deficient in any way. Broken headstock scrolls are a quirk of the design and a risk you assume if you want to fool with F-style mandolins.


thanks Rick.  i see that it is common now.  just a risk of going with F style like you said.  F doesn't stand for design Fail does it?  i mean it looks great and all but if F style is just about the looks and not the sound per se couldn't people have come up with a sturdier design by now?  i mean how long has the F style been around?

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## Twilo123

> Maybe that, and maybe they see a thread that has stretched out to 4 pages, and they can't imaging reading all that to see what has and hasn't been said.
> The reason for using hide glue, BTW is for the next time the scroll breaks off. It will be easier to once again get a good glue joint if some other kind of glue doesn't have to be cleaned off.


i'm i am thinking it might come off again i may as well just leave it off to begin with and be done with it.  it actually broke pretty cleanly; so much so that i didn't realize it at first when i took it out.

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## Twilo123

just to show i'm not a poor sport i took a pic with my new Mando 'Swirly Ear'.  Looking forward to my 1st Halloween with her  :Mandosmiley:

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## Rick Lindstrom

> thanks Rick.  i see that it is common now.  just a risk of going with F style like you said.  F doesn't stand for design Fail does it?  i mean it looks great and all but if F style is just about the looks and not the sound per se couldn't people have come up with a sturdier design by now?  i mean how long has the F style been around?


The F style as we know it has been around since early in the 1900's. Had it not been made popular by Bill Monroe and Bluegrass, the F would probably just be a foot note to history by now, but who knows?

I don't make 'em or play 'em so I can't answer your question about why the design hasn't been remediated yet. That's a question for Gibson, who foisted the design off on the world originally, and the people who continue the tradition of building them today.

But it's really about the music, not the instrument, right?

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## Bertram Henze

> pic with my new Mando 'Swirly Ear'.


Now all you need is a cowboy hat and Bill is back...

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## Pete Jenner

> But it's really about the music, not the instrument, right?


Apparently.

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## MikeEdgerton

I hate it when the ear snaps off.

----------

journeybear

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## Jeff Mando

> I hate it when the ear snaps off.


It's a BG tradition!

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## Rick Lindstrom

> Apparently.


Pete-

Do I detect a sense of irony in your response? hehheh

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## Twilo123

> The F style as we know it has been around since early in the 1900's. Had it not been made popular by Bill Monroe and Bluegrass, the F would probably just be a foot note to history by now, but who knows?
> 
> I don't make 'em or play 'em so I can't answer your question about why the design hasn't been remediated yet. That's a question for Gibson, who foisted the design off on the world originally, and the people who continue the tradition of building them today.
> 
> But it's really about the music, not the instrument, right?


yea i am starting to read up on the history of mandolins in the last century and see how the F came about.  I mean i do really appreciate the aesthetics of the design; it's like art.  music and art together.  it's just that you would think as they started building these and people kept popping them off that manufacturers would say we need to fix this design flaw otherwise people will be breaking them all the time and complaining.

at the end of the day it is about the music.  i totally agree on that.  i have an F style and an A style now and i like both of them.  i think the A style is a little easier to play for me right now but that may just be something as simple as what strings are on it.  i picked about the mandolin because of the sound; not the sight.  i am tall with large fingers so i definitely did not pick it up for the sight.  playing on such small frets and holding the mandolin is a challenge all its own.  those things are playing a lot more into the sound i get out of it than say a full size acoustic guitar.

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## Twilo123

> Now all you need is a cowboy hat and Bill is back...


i don't have cowboy hats but i do have some hacienda type hats i could try lol.

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## Twilo123

> it's a bg tradition!


bg?

----------


## allenhopkins

> bg?


*Bluegrass. * Referring, I guess, to Bill Monroe's mutilated F-5 headstock.  Word is that Monroe carried around the broken-off scroll for years, always intending to get it re-attached or replaced.  Finally Gibson got hold of his mandolin and repaired the headstock, did a bit of work on the body; they re-inlayed their logo, which Monroe had gouged out due to dissatisfaction with an earlier Gibson factory repair.

----------


## Twilo123

ok, so i finally found the manufacturer's number.  i called and they basically said they do not deal with end users directly; that i would have to go through my dealer.  i asked how i would know if the dealer actually spoke to them and they said to ask who they spoke to and they could confirm on manufacturer end.  Long story short I didn't have to go that far into this. i called the dealer back and went into more detail about what happened.  They were gracious enough to provide a stipend to fix it for this 1 time.  They did not ask but i asked if i could relay who they were in this thread because i think that any dealer who would put themselves out for a customer and manufacturer like that definitely deservers a shout out.  it's the least i could possibly do.  

In my case the dealer was....'*The Mandolin Store*'

Again they did not have to offer to fix it however once i explained my situation in detail they immediately offered to fix it without any hesitation whatsoever.  They understood that I am new to Mandolins in general and took my word that I was not purposely damaging the instrument.  All in all a class act in my book.  Thank you 'The Mandolin Store'!!!
i will definitely keep them in mind for any future purchases; if for nothing else than the peace of mind knowing they back up their product line.  Honestly it's not about the money. I do feel a hell of a lot better knowing that this dealer backs up their product even for newbies like me.  You know everyone throws a warranty on things these days but most do knowing no one will ever call them out on it.  These guys backed it up without any hesitation and i respect that.  I will definitely look to them 1st on my future purchases.  I just hope that they don't blacklist me now for being a PITA lol (just kidding).  oh and i asked their permission to post this before doing so (in case anyone was interested).

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## journeybear

Good deal! Glad it worked out for you. Always good news when a company stands behind what they sell and honors their part of the transaction.




> ... they re-inlayed their logo, which Monroe had gouged out ...


Um, no, not exactly. They replaced the headstock plate. Monroe gave the original gouged-out one to one of the Gibson employees who got that ball rolling. It was sold at auction Dec. 3, 2009 for $37,500.

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## Timbofood

After years of careful pursuit it was Rendell Wall from the Gibson company who got Mr. Bill to allow the repairs and restore the peghead. At least that's the story Rendell tells.

----------


## Steve Ostrander

I would have it fixed by a competent luthier. Chances are you won't even be able to see the break when they are done.

----------

