# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  Eastman ERM El Rey

## jefflester

Happened to see this on the Mandolin Store site:

https://themandolinstore.com/product...stic-electric/

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Elliot Luber, 

Mandobart

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## Verne Andru

Very sweet. I like it a lot!

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## Pete Braccio

Damn. I just got my MAD under control.

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## CWRoyds

That is actually pretty cool looking. 
I like it.

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## jefflester

Scott's NAMM 2019 post says:
_And, introducing the Eastman ER-M El Ray Mandolin - Top wood solid Maple, Back/Sides solid one piece Mahogany, Finish nitrocellulose, pickup Lollar mandolin Humbucker._

Back and sides carved out of a single piece like a bathtub?

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## Dave Greenspoon

> Scott's NAMM 2019 post says:
> _And, introducing the Eastman ER-M El Ray Mandolin - Top wood solid Maple, Back/Sides solid one piece Mahogany, Finish nitrocellulose, pickup Lollar mandolin Humbucker._
> 
> Back and sides carved out of a single piece like a bathtub?


No. Like a RIGEL! And FWIW, I am certainly interested in this offering. Wonder when the first one hits the Classifieds!

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## Daniel Nestlerode

From the linked page:
– Back/Sides: Solid Mahogany with center Block

So a bit like a Gibson ES-335.  

It's an interesting offering.  I haven't seen anyone making something like this.  Most emandos seem to be either adapted acoustic (hollow with a pickup) or solid bodied like a mandocaster.

Daniel

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## thistle3585

It is a chambered body.  It has a block running down the center.  I've used this style of construction for years. Reduces weight but still gives you some support. Notice they don't have a control cavity access panel in the rendition?  I wonder where that is going to go?  Back or side?  Its a nice looking instrument.

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Dave Greenspoon, 

JEStanek, 

Mark Seale

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## JPS

> It is a chambered body.  It has a block running down the center.  I've used this style of construction for years. Reduces weight but still gives you some support. Notice they don't have a control cavity access panel in the rendition?  I wonder where that is going to go?  Back or side?  Its a nice looking instrument.


Is that it mounted on the side?

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## Verne Andru

Cutting chambers from a solid slab of wood has become popular with the widespread adoption of CNC technology. Load a board, flip the switch and the machine does the rest. It's far more cost effective than a traditional 335 or thinline build.

Epiphone has been doing it a lot - I had a Epi Wildkat built the same way and liked it. Makes for a solid instrument but takes off the excess weight.

My Fender FM60E is done as a traditional thinline whereas that last mandostrats Fender produced were solid alder. The latter was like a ton of bricks compared to the former.

It'll be interesting to hear how it sounds plugged in. While humbuckers have their advantages, they are not known for producing anything close to an "acoustic" tone.

I've always liked the El Ray guitar design and think it works very well on this mando as well.

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## thistle3585

Yes, its a 22 minute process on my CNC.  I see a lot, and I do mean a lot, of people be surprised when they get an 8 string emando and discover that it doesn't sound like an acoustic instrument.  There isn't any reason you can't put a decent piezo bridge on there, add a switch and wire it in.

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## Dave Greenspoon

> Yes, its a 22 minute process on my CNC.  I see a lot, and I do mean a lot, of people be surprised when they get an 8 string emando and discover that it doesn't sound like an acoustic instrument.  There isn't any reason you can't put a decent piezo bridge on there, add a switch and wire it in.


Are you saying have a blend/stereo-out available of the active and piezo pickups? That seems like a huge no-brainer, given the relatively cheap cost and the exponential increase in capability on stage or in studio. I'd likely be tempted to replace my Dillion with something like that, despite the excellent bridge upgrade.

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## Verne Andru

This one may be well worth figuring a way to get RMC saddles and pre-amp happening. RMC are standard on Godin and the best sounding I've heard so far. The El Rey appears optimized for electric playing with probably not much acoustic sound at all, but its solid build makes it ideal for RMC.

I found Ron McClish (RMC) to be very approachable and a great guy. He made me a custom preamp board for my Godin Multiac with a socketed op-amp so I could swap in a high-end Excalibur, so there's no harm in asking. This one may be worth the effort to compliment the humbucker, which no doubt sounds great in its own way.

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## thistle3585

[QUOTE=Dave Greenspoon;1697703]Are you saying have a blend/stereo-out available of the active and piezo pickups? That seems like a huge no-brainer, given the relatively cheap cost and the exponential increase in capability on stage or in studio. I'd likely be tempted to replace my Dillion with something like that, despite the excellent bridge upgrade.[/QUOTE

I don't think you can use a blend pot when mixing a passive and active circuit but I could be wrong.  I'd wire a pickup selector switch so you'd either be piezo or magnetic on the existing mono jack.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're looking for ways to hotrod another instrument.  Don't you have enough pedals that you could make a rubberband and a paperclip sound like Jimi Hendrix?  :Smile:

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## Dave Greenspoon

[QUOTE=thistle3585;1697901]


> Are you saying have a blend/stereo-out available of the active and piezo pickups? That seems like a huge no-brainer, given the relatively cheap cost and the exponential increase in capability on stage or in studio. I'd likely be tempted to replace my Dillion with something like that, despite the excellent bridge upgrade.[/QUOTE
> 
> I don't think you can use a blend pot when mixing a passive and active circuit but I could be wrong.  I'd wire a pickup selector switch so you'd either be piezo or magnetic on the existing mono jack.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're looking for ways to hotrod another instrument.  Don't you have enough pedals that you could make a rubberband and a paperclip sound like Jimi Hendrix?


I was thinking Rolfe had done something along those lines with the Phoenix Jazz models. I may be remembering the details incorrectly. Not really looking to hotrod anything right now, but just wondering. And ready for the funny thing? The new amp really has me disinclined to use much more than a tuner, phasor, light dirt, and delay.

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## thistle3585

If you put the pre-amp after the blending pot then I could see it working.  Otherwise, I think the active signal would overshadow the passive signal and/or could send a signal to the magnetic pickup and causing feedback.

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## Marty Jacobson

> No. Like a RIGEL!


A Rigel is pretty different. It's several pieces, and can be thinner than a typical electric build would be.

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## Daniel Nestlerode

> I see a lot, and I do mean a lot, of people be surprised when they get an 8 string emando and discover that it doesn't sound like an acoustic instrument.


Really? Wow.

D

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## mrmando

I had a chance to play one of these today at the Fretboard Journal HQ. I offered to write a review, so I'll have to be tight-lipped here until the review is posted.

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JEStanek

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## Daniel Nestlerode

Tease!

 :Smile: 
Daniel

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JEStanek

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## kurth83

I am thinking just add a K&K...

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## jefflester

> I am thinking just add a K&K...


Depends on how much center block there is. If it's under the bridge, you're not going to get much vibration where you would typically put a piezo disc (or two).

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## Daniel Nestlerode

Hey Martin, what's the scale length on the ERM?  Eastman isn't saying on their website.

Thanks!
Daniel

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## mrmando

> Hey Martin, what's the scale length on the ERM?  Eastman isn't saying on their website.
> 
> Thanks!
> Daniel


Pretty sure it was standard 13.875" although I didn't have a tape measure handy. I submitted the review and will post a link when it's live.

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Daniel Nestlerode

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## mrmando

All right, thanks for your patience, here are my remarks. 
https://www.fretboardjournal.com/col...-rey-mandolin/

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Bill McCall, 

Chris Daniels, 

Dave Greenspoon, 

Donal H, 

WaxwellHaus

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## mandolinstew

> All right, thanks for your patience, here are my remarks. 
> https://www.fretboardjournal.com/col...-rey-mandolin/


Thank you for that.

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## Verne Andru

Thanks Martin. Good review with a couple of notes.

While you say the El Rey deviates from other offerings that are of the "shrunken guitar" variety it is a shrunken Eastman El Rey guitar so it's on par with other offerings.

The pickup problem can be solved if Lollar used adjustable pole pieces. Easy fix.

Was there any acoustic sound to speak off or is it strictly electric?

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## mrmando

Well, perhaps I shoulda said "shrunken solidbody electric guitar" to be more precise. But I only learned about the El Rey guitar in the process of writing my review. It's not as though someone took the El Rey guitar measurements and reduced them all proportionally without any reference to Eastman's mandolin line.  Neck profile and neck angle are mandolin-specific, and the body can be read as a modified F-style mandolin   just as easily  as a little archtop guitar. 

I do hope the pole pieces are adjustable. Kudos for going to the trouble of having a custom pickup made for this axe ... but if you're gonna do that, you should make sure the thing works properly. I don't want to have to remember to hit the E string harder than other strings to avoid a volume drop. 

Yes, there is  some acoustic tone, since there are tone chambers directly under the F holes.  But given that both the top and the body are hardwoods,  the acoustic sound  is pretty quiet. Maybe slightly louder than an unplugged Godin.

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Donal H, 

Verne Andru

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## Daniel Nestlerode

Thanks very much for that review Martin and congrats on getting published by FJ.  (Did they pay you?)

Daniel

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## Verne Andru

If Duncan can do adjustable pole pieces I see no reason why Lollar can't, especially on a custom build. Thanks again for the review.

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## mrmando

Well, the Lollar pickup definitely does not have screw poles, so adjusting them won't be a simple matter of reaching for your screwdriver.  I should think Eastman needs to get the correct pole height dialed in before you buy the mandolin.

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## Verne Andru

It should be relatively simple for Lollar to put screw poles in these custom made pickups if Eastman asks.

The problem with getting "the correct pole height dialed in" at the factory is that it leads to problems in the field when users change string gauges. Electric mandolins need to allow adjustments to this sort of thing just like electric guitars. Especially at this price point.

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## mrmando

> Electric mandolins need to allow adjustments to this sort of thing just like electric guitars. Especially at this price point.


Agreed. Screw poles would be the most user-friendly solution, methinks. As noted in the review, it was strung with a 40–11 set. I guess you could go lighter on the other strings to try to balance the output; you certainly wouldn't want to go much heavier on the E.  But in that scenario you are choosing your string gauges to compensate for the attributes of the pickup, which most people would regard as a backward approach.

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## mandolinstew

I use 12-16-20-30 gauge on my 8 string electric,works for me .

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## mrmando

Light/heavy -- an unusual set to be sure. Did you choose that set in order to get a balanced response from your pickup, or for some other reason?

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## mandolinstew

> Light/heavy -- an unusual set to be sure. Did you choose that set in order to get a balanced response from your pickup, or for some other reason?



Balanced response,plays and sounds better.

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## Verne Andru

mrmando - How does it balance with a strap?

I love the El Rey guitars but the design makes them very neck-heavy and am curious if the problem persists on the mando.

You mention it would be nice to have a series/parallel option for the pickup to which I agree. I would add that coil-splitting will also be nice and both features can be easily implemented using push-pull pots. Easy enough after-market mods but coming like that out of the box would add significant value at very little cost to Eastman.

I met the president of Eastman a few years back. Very nice folks that really care about what they're doing.

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## mrmando

Yes, I expect people will tweak these in one way or another, especially if the pickup problem doesn't get fixed. I'm sure that Jason at Fretboard Journal has already shared my comments with Otto and the folks at Eastman, and we'll see if anything comes of it. 

I did not try it standing up with a strap. OF course it is heavier than a typical acoustic, but I suspect the extra weight is in the body, not the neck. 

One thing I forgot to take note of is the location of any access panel for the electronics. There might not be one — if one is going to work on this, one may have to remove the pickup ring and pull the pickup out, and/or work through the F holes, as with a Gibson EM150.

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## mrmando

Nice photos in this here Reverb ad. 
https://reverb.com/item/25350344-eas...brand-new-2019

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GrooverMcTube, 

Verne Andru

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## jefflester

"Inlay:Pearl El Rey Thumbnails"

I guess you're supposed to use your thumb on the G-string when making chords.

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## CWRoyds

It is a very cool instrument. 
I appreciate that they took the extra effort in the details, like the wooden pickup frame, and cool wooden knobs. 
I also like that it is an 8 string. 
I think I really need one.

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## Verne Andru

> Nice photos in this here Reverb ad. 
> https://reverb.com/item/25350344-eas...brand-new-2019


That went fast.

According to the photos there's no electronic access panel on the back so you're into fishing through f-holes if you want to make any changes. Be nice if there wasn't a need in the first place.

Sweet piece and definitely on the list.

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## Rick Jones

> That went fast.
> 
> According to the photos there's no electronic access panel on the back so you're into fishing through f-holes if you want to make any changes. Be nice if there wasn't a need in the first place.
> 
> Sweet piece and definitely on the list.


I have a friend who is a prodigious guitar player and top-notch guitar tech. He was on the road maintaining Nugent's Byrdlands for about five years (MANY years back), and spent a lot of time then and since crawling around inside archtop instruments. When I got ready to replace pickups and pots in a semi-hollow Guild guitar I've got, he described the process perfectly: "It's just like building a ship in a bottle." He was right.

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Verne Andru

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## Verne Andru

I do most of my own tech work including hot-wiring electronics, but stop at f-holes. I have a deal with my tech - I take a job as far as I can and he'll finish it off. When I got a really nice Hagstrom Viking (335-ish) I decided to put in a set of P-Rails that switch between humbucker, P-90 and single-coil but didn't want to cut the body. I drew out the wiring to switch off push-pulls, which got really complicated, and handed the job to my tech. When I went to get the guitar he almost killed me - he had to fish all those pots with a huge amount of wiring through the f-holes but once he got it in it didn't work properly. He says he was almost all day on it. Did a fantastic job though. That's why I don't do f-holes.

Here's a tip for anyone into wiring - when we wire a humbucker to coil-split (that is turning off one of the 2 single coils that are wired in series to form a humbucker) to get a single-coil sound we take the center pick-up leads [on a 4 lead pickup] to ground usually using a double-pole double-throw switch (dpdt that can be a switch or push-pull, etc). Humbuckers and single-coils are wired using different capacitor values for shaping the tone but in most cases we split the humbucker but don't change the capacitor so the sound isn't as good as it can be.

The tip here is that we can use the second half of that dpdt switch we're already using to split the bucker to switch to a different capacitor at the same time. All that's missing is a captacitor (pennies) and the time to wire it up. It makes a really big tonal difference as the single-coil setting with the right capacitor value gives us that nice ringing chime we want single-coils for in the first place.

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Michael H Geimer, 

Rick Jones

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## Rick Jones

Another helpful tip re: rewiring archtop instruments - surgical tubing is a great way to fish things into a hollow or semi-hollow instrument. 2-foot sections of surgical tube, one for each pot. The tubing, if you have the correct size, will slip right over the shaft of the pot and hold securely enough to pull it through the hole in the body. You can slip the washer/nut over the surgical tube, right onto the pot. Makes a difficult job slightly easier. I see we have wandered a long ways from the actual topic, so I'll shut up now. :D

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Verne Andru

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## mrmando

Oh, it's all good advice. These instruments are going to be out in the wild and techs will need to work on them. We might as well distribute as many tips as possible.

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## Daniel Nestlerode

> Oh, it's all good advice. These instruments are going to be out in the wild and techs will need to work on them. We might as well distribute as many tips as possible.


Might be a good idea to add these to a section of emando.com.   :Smile: 

Daniel

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Rick Jones

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## mrmando

Yeah, this and the new Andrew Hendryx record deserve writeups.

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## Mandolin Cafe

Seeing one store in Florida (Penny Lane) telling people on their social media they'll have one in stock tomorrow so I'd assume other retailers may be receiving them also, but no way to know for sure.

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## mrmando

Aaaaaaaaaand it just hit eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EASTMAN-ER-...MAAOSwBOxdJQ6q

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WaxwellHaus

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## outskiing

Aaaaaaaaand it's sold :-)

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## Daniel Nestlerode

And now it has been removed.   :Smile: 

D

PS, sorry, late the trigger and can't figure out how to delete the post.

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## mandroid

Martin,  have a sound comparison with Gibson's EM 150 ?

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## mandroid

Eastman is importing from a factory , so there must be mote than One..

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## Baron Collins-Hill

I really want a long scale 5 string version!

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Denman John, 

Verne Andru

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## mrmando

> Martin,  have a sound comparison with Gibson's EM 150 ?


Haven't played an EM150 all that recently (although I do have a cool A50 with the Johnny Gimble setup), but the biggest difference is going to be single coil (EM150) vs. humbucker (El Rey). You're likely to get less hum, and extraneous noise in general, out of the El Rey.

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## Daniel Nestlerode

> I really want a long scale 5 string version!


Me Too!

D

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## mrmando

And another one hits the bay ... 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastman-ERM...cAAOSwRSddMMls

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## mandroid

Gone : fetched "$1,039.00 "

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## Ben Milne

Got to play one of these today.  As of yet its the only one in Australia, and unfortunately it was at a guitar show in a trade hall full of stalls selling 6 stringed axes to shredders with amps set to stun.

First impressions are pretty good overall... somewhat impressive, and definitely a step above other mass-produced emandos that have come along over the years, as expected at a higher price, but it is certainly several steps up in price over much else that been offered of late ...
 It played nicely and was overall a nice neat and tidy build, the thumbnail fretboard inlays were a nice touch.
Played through a Vox ACsomething without much tone control (all they had handy, bass and treble control only) it was hard to find a nice tonal balance across the entire instrument with the A string followed by the E string being quite overpowering.  Hard to pass judgement on the pickup considering the conditions and because of this I didnt spend much time taking it for a strap (the noise floor coming from the shredders of adjoining stalls was lets face it pretty ridiculous).

As previously mentioned in the thread it would be nice to see adjustable poles. I think its all too easy for manufacturers to  grab whatever pickup is readily available without considering if it has  been specificity voiced for the instruments register... 
Given the RRP one should expect a decent performance out of the box without having to hotrod it with custom features... especially considering the somewhat sealed nature of the body an lack of access to the electronics. I feel like this simple feature would give the instrument more legs in terms of out of the box functionality before treating it as a shell on which to build a custom build.... it would be an expensive start for a project instrument.

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Daniel Nestlerode, 

Verne Andru

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## Ben Milne

> All right, thanks for your patience, here are my remarks. 
> https://www.fretboardjournal.com/col...-rey-mandolin/


Well summised Martin.

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## Dave Greenspoon

I saw one in a local store today; played it thru a Rivera Thirty Twelve. I have to say EL34 is not my choice circuit; I'm much more a 6V6 guy. That said, this little axe played wonderfully, and sounded amazing.

I did not really run the instrument through all the paces and nor take full advantage of the amp. Rhythm sounded great; note articulation for leads was clear and clean. The playing dynamics was pretty much like playing my Eastman 515; just add the custom Lollar for more even more fun. I did not sense a drop off in the signal strength of the E string. The mahogany gives gives the sound a lovely warmth.

Fit and finish felt superb all the way up and down the neck and fretboard. The visuals are impressive; the finish was nice as my 515 and the "thumbnail" inlaid fret markers work for me. I'm thinking of going back to get it this evening.

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Verne Andru

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## johnsoba

Well-written, thorough review, with an obviously great depth of knowledge. Thanks. It’ll be interesting to see if the weak “e” is addressed soon.

Bruce

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