# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  What do you think of Steve Earle?

## Dagger Gordon

Been listening to the new CD 'I'll never get out of this world alive'.  

Absolutely great in my view. Love his singing, the songs, the production by T Bone Burnett - it's just great.

There's quite a lot of mandolin on it, and it occurs to me that we don't hear much about Steve here.  He's not Chris Thile on the mandolin, but there is something about his playing which is very effective and I suspect more generally influential than he is probably given credit for.

I also think he is one of America's great songwriters.

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## Michael Eck

Love him! He's a great songwriter.

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## Dale Ludewig

I think his Guitar Town CD is one of the best songwriting achievements I've ever heard.  No mandolin content.

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## Steve Ostrander

Fabulous songwriter, one of my favorites. I especially like "Train a Comin" and "The Mountain" with Del McCoury. He is a very competent guitar and mandolin player. Our trio covers sevral of his songs, and you know what they say about imitation.

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## Ed Goist

> ...snip...we don't hear much about Steve here.  He's not Chris Thile on the mandolin, but there is something about his playing which is very effective and I suspect more generally influential than he is probably given credit for.
> I also think he is one of America's great songwriters.


*Huge +1!* I could not possibly agree with this more.
I have not heard his new album, but I have it on my summer "must get" list.
I'm even more stoked about it now that you say there is a decent amount of mandolin on it.

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## Ed Goist

A friend of mine who is a gifted guitarist once told me that guitarists with basic but "hooky" technique (guys whose songs/riffs one can learn in a few minutes) are always more influential that technical wizards on the instrument (guys whose technique is intimidating).
He would say that Kurt Cobain got a lot more kids to pick-up a guitar than Al DiMeola did.
I find this premise hard to refute.

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## MikeEdgerton

I've been a fan for years. If you like Steve you'll probably like Guy Clark as well.

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## Treblemaker

IMHO he's the best bluegrass songwriter to have come along who's lyrical focus has a deep, thoughtful undercurrent that is political, controversial and thought provoking.  Tim O'Brien is amazing too, but a close 2nd as concerns songs that stir up emotions, anger, ire, dissatisfaction and outrage.  

Sometimes I find SE a bit tooooo angry - and if you have ever read his biography a case could be made that he has successfully reformed himself from his junkie, addicted criminal past and become a very meaningful artist.

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## Fretbear

Huge fan; he has inspired me to "Just write songs, Dammit!" Saying you can't and then not doing so only proves that you are not a songwriter, and for some of us that is just not acceptable. He is an inspiration not only as a songwriter, but as a survivor. Anyone doubting his subtle mastery of guitar accompaniment should check out "Billy Austin" (pre-prison) and "Ellis Unit One" (54th St. Sessions, post-prison) on YouTube. Those two songs cut right down to the bone.

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## Denny Gies

Quirky and great.  I really like "Tennessee Blues" from the Washington Square Serenade CD.

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## onassis

One of the few artists I've seen who can play a one-man show, singing off-key all night, with an out of tune guitar, and keep an audience absolutely mesmerized. He's a great songwriter and performer, and a deceptively talented instrumentalist. Not a super technician, but very compelling. These days, though, I tend to listen more to his son, Justin Townes (who has a fair bit of MC, btw)

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## Mike Bunting

Your reference to Justin Townes Earle turned me on to him, can't thank you enough. He's a welcome antidote to the candy floss country music out there these days.

http://youtu.be/5LLqFF89UtU

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## Markus

I think he can have quite a foul mouth.

I have very much enjoyed quite a bit of his work, and have a huge respect for his songwriting skills most of all. He's one of the great living American songwriters in my book.

Very interested in this album, as this isn't the first person I've heard remark about how much they liked this new album.

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## cstewart

I went to see Steve Earle at the Egg in Albany a year or two ago and was a little perturbed that his son was opening for him.  Seemed like nepotism to me.  Then he performed and the next day I bought all 3 of the CDs he had out at the time.  He's put out another since then and it's just as good as the others.

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## Jim MacDaniel

> ...I also think he is one of America's great songwriters.


I couldn't agree more. Regardless of what phase he was in, his recordings have always resonated with me.

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## Jim MacDaniel

> I've been a fan for years. If you like Steve you'll probably like Guy Clark as well.


I love, love, _love_ this song: Picasso's Mandolin

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## Mike Bunting

> I love, love, _love_ this song: Picasso's Mandolin


That whole album is fantastic, but most of his work is.

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## Paul Kotapish

Steve Earle is great, and I really enjoyed his performance (as a singer-songwriter/mentor) in season one of the _Treme_ series, too--just one more reason (among many others) to rent and watch the whole thing.

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## Bernie Daniel

My one of my favorite songs of his is "Galway Girl" -- many Irish don't believe it was written by an American because Earle has played it over there with Sharon Shannon so many times.  Johnny Cash used to have to insist to Irish audiences that he wrote "Forty Shades of Green" also!  :Smile:

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## Jim MacDaniel

I forget the movie, but I remember a pub scene of someone playing Galway Girl on stage (on location somewhere in the west of Ireland IIRC), and I got a kick of the performer's introduction of a the song as "an American song about an Irish girl" -- but he failed to say who actually wrote it  :Wink:

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## Ed Goist

> I forget the movie, but I remember a pub scene of someone playing Galway Girl on stage (on location somewhere in the west of Ireland IIRC), and I got a kick of the performer's introduction of a the song as "an American song about an Irish girl" -- but he failed to say who actually wrote it


Maybe _P.S. I Love You_?
(What a great song, by the way!)

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## northfolk

I think he is great;  I have been listening to him for years.   I will be seeing him in person, for the first time I might add,  July 22nd at The Big Top Chautauqua, near the shores of Lake Superior.   :Coffee:  :Mandosmiley:

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## Fretbear

Besides his stint as the street singer in "Treme", which is about the recovery of the New Orleans music scene after Katrina, he also plays the recovered addict Waylon in "The Wire". David Simon is responsible for them and they are both fantastic.

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## trevor

I'm a huge fan too, I think I have more of Steve Earl's work than anyone else's.

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## Buddah

I'll take my place in line as one of SE's biggest fans.  The last time I saw him live, he was touring in support of the "Townes" album.  2+ hours of amazing, solo music.  At one point he grabbed his Weber Mandola, and told us that it was one of his favorite instruments that he owned.  Pretty cool (and went over quite well in Missoula, about 3 hrs. away from Belgrade, where Weber's are made).

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## LastMohican

One of my many musical therapies is, after a long, trying day at work, to blast out of the parking lot with Steve's "Harlan Man" (recorded with Del McCoury) fired up on the stereo.

This ALWAYS serves as a potent "mood lifter"!

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## Ed Goist

LastMohican, I've been doing the exact same thing with _Copperhead Road_ for over 20 years!..."Mood lifter" indeed!

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## j-hill

I would guess that a lot of people were brought into the Bluegrass fold when Steve Earle teamed up with the Del McCoury Band.  That was a great CD.  I'm not sure what caused that relationship to go south but it was a wonderful combination for that CD.

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## LastMohican

> LastMohican, I've been doing the exact same thing with _Copperhead Road_ for over 20 years!..."Mood lifter" indeed!


My bother has a band here in Louisville, "Fish that Kill", primarily an R&R cover band; and they are considering working up Copperhead Road over the summer with my playing the mando part.

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## Jim Broyles

I first heard of him with his decent (#28 peak) country hit, "Someday." I loved that song  and a couple others on the Guitar Town album. Didn't care for "Copperhead Road," or much else, other than some of the Mountain stuff. Earle is one of those guys I would tell, "Shut up and sing."  I would not classify him as a bluegrass writer.

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## SincereCorgi

> I would guess that a lot of people were brought into the Bluegrass fold when Steve Earle teamed up with the Del McCoury Band.  That was a great CD.  I'm not sure what caused that relationship to go south but it was a wonderful combination for that CD.


Was there a falling-out? That's too bad, I'd love another record... it's easily my favorite Del McCoury record.

I first heard of Steve Earl from a line in a Stephin Merritt song: "Acoustic Guitar, do you think I play hard? Well you coulda belonged to Steve Earl..."

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## Mandomax

Steve goes into detail in his autobiography, "Hardcore Troubador."  Steve's take on the falling out was that Del was getting mifffed that he (Steve) was getting all the PR.  Things came to a head at Merlefest, when Steve got to play on the main stage and Del & the boys only got to play on one of the side stages.  According to Steve, Del threatened to quit the rest of the entire tour if he didn't get the same amount of stage time with his band as Steve.  According to Del, Steve's constant use of vulgarity on stage was the driver for the split.  Probably a little from column a, a little from column B, imo.

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## GTison

I don't listen to him.  That's what I think of him.  I don't consider him a bluegrass artist but rather someone who does a little bluegrass with his show.  But what do I know I don't listen right?  I have heard some of his stuff w/ the Del Mc Band it was good.  

As to the deal between he and Del Mc,  I believe there was an interview in Bluegrass Unlimited where Del said his fans came to the concerts because of Del. And when they got there they were offended by Earle's cursing etc. on stage.  That embarrassed Del.  This would be counter productive to Del's interest in maintaining his fan base.  

  As to the side stage at MerleFest, sounds like Del was good enough to be on some recordings and give Steve Earle a new market to work in ( "bluegrass" ) but then when it came time to do a show the show didn't want Del. Amazing?    Bluegrass is just to constricting.   :Coffee:

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## Buddah

> I first heard of him with his decent (#28 peak) country hit, "Someday." I loved that song  and a couple others on the Guitar Town album. Didn't care for "Copperhead Road," or much else, other than some of the Mountain stuff. Earle is one of those guys I would tell, "Shut up and sing."  I would not classify him as a bluegrass writer.


I certainly wouldn't classify him as a "bluegrass writer" either; to the extent that he's classifiable, I'd place him in the "Hardcore Folk/Americana/Rock & Roll Acoustica category.  That said, when he decides to write a bluegrass type of tune, he comes up with some of the most compelling, melodic and flat-out interesting stuff out there (IMHO).

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## LastMohican

> Steve goes into detail in his autobiography, "Hardcore Troubador."  Steve's take on the falling out was that Del was getting mifffed that he (Steve) was getting all the PR.  Things came to a head at Merlefest, when Steve got to play on the main stage and Del & the boys only got to play on one of the side stages.  According to Steve, Del threatened to quit the rest of the entire tour if he didn't get the same amount of stage time with his band as Steve.  According to Del, Steve's constant use of vulgarity on stage was the driver for the split.  Probably a little from column a, a little from column B, imo.


I gotta tell you; as much as I like some of Steve's stuff, I'd been disappointed, too.

I'd be thinking, "Isn't there any place that we can go to get away from this?" If my son (who loves Bluegrass) was there with me; I'd go from being disappointed to being angry. Don't get me wrong; I realize my only "remedy" would be to just leave. It is a "free country", after all, and vulgarity (for the most part) is still protected speech.

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## Buddah

I'll admit to being somewhat bemused by the frequent references to Steve's live-show vulgarity.  I've seen him a bunch of times (including several different venues while he was touring with Del McCoury) and haven't found him to be over the top at all.  Of course, people have different levels of tolerance for that sort of thing...perhaps I'm to some degree desensitized to it?  
What he most certainly is is outspoken in his political views, which tend towards the left end of the spectrum (to put it mildly).  Again, I'm not put off by this in the least, but can easily understand how others might be.  'Course, it helps to be a Birkenstock-wearing, tree-hugging, pot-smoking peace-nik!   :Mandosmiley:

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## Jim Broyles

> I certainly wouldn't classify him as a "bluegrass writer" either; to the extent that he's classifiable, I'd place him in the "Hardcore Folk/Americana/Rock & Roll Acoustica category.  That said, when he decides to write a bluegrass type of tune, he comes up with some of the most compelling, melodic and flat-out interesting stuff out there (IMHO).


 This is why I used that term. From the first page of this thread:



> IMHO he's the best bluegrass songwriter to have come along who's lyrical focus has a deep, thoughtful undercurrent that is political, controversial and thought provoking.

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## Buddah

> This is why I used that term. From the first page of this thread:


Thanks Jim...without proper context, I assumed that you were making a statement (with which I would essentially agree), rather than a response to somebody else's post (a response with which I essentially agree).  Can you tell that I tend to "skim" through most posts...?

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## swampy

Loved him. Read his biography, can't listen to him now. Somewhat disappointed in myself for being so judgmental. The upmost respect for him as a songwriter.

Saw Justin Townes the summer before last. Loved him. Great entertainer with a great sound.

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## sgarrity

I think he's one of the best singer-songwriters in the business today.  I have pretty much every album he has put out and love the vast majority of it.  Anybody that goes to see Steve Earle and doesn't expect a few four letter words obviously hasn't done their homework.  That's actually one of the big turn offs to me about bluegrass.  Some of the performers and fans are so uptight they should be in church instead of a concert!

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## Buddah

> I think he's one of the best singer-songwriters in the business today.  I have pretty much every album he has put out and love the vast majority of it.  Anybody that goes to see Steve Earle and doesn't expect a few four letter words obviously hasn't done their homework.  That's actually one of the big turn offs to me about bluegrass.  Some of the performers and fans are so uptight they should be in church instead of a concert!


So well said Shaun...couldn't agree with you more!

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## LastMohican

> Some of the performers and fans are so uptight they should be in church instead of a concert!


I'm guessing there's quite a few of us that enjoy both!

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## Loretta Callahan

I've always enjoyed his music, and he's one of my favorite songwriters.  He seems like he could be somebody's neighbor, uncle, brother ... just folks.  A friend just did a phone interview with him for her radio show here in Portland.  I'm very anxious to hear it.  Mr. Earle must be on the PR route ... he was on Tavis Smiley a couple weeks ago.  I enjoyed his interview and song very much.  You might enjoy it too.

http://video.pbs.org/video/1945734115/

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## Jim Broyles

Uptight? Okay, if you say so. If you think it adds to the enjoyment of a live performance to listen to the headliner use profanity, vulgarity and obscenity, go for it. I don't. I'm not a prude and  I've used all the words in my life, but I realize that they are not necessary for communication, nor for expressing my opinion. Any fan of old movies knows that they got the idea across without all the language and what is left to the imagination is sufficient to sell the plot. We are who we are 24/7/365; there ought not be a "church" facet and a "world" facet of our personalities. My 2¢ worth.

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## Jim MacDaniel

> I'm guessing there's quite a few of us that enjoy both!


I'm with you there - I too enjoy good music and a colorful vocabulary.  :Wink:

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## LastMohican

> Uptight? Okay, if you say so. If you think it adds to the enjoyment of a live performance to listen to the headliner use profanity, vulgarity and obscenity, go for it. I don't. I'm not a prude and  I've used all the words in my life, but I realize that they are not necessary for communication, nor for expressing my opinion. Any fan of old movies knows that they got the idea across without all the language and what is left to the imagination is sufficient to get the plot. We are who we are 24/7/365; there ought not be a "church" facet and a "world" facet of our personalities. My 2¢ worth.


I think another way to say it is, it's not that I haven't failed in just about every way imaginable (including my use of language) but my failures do not serve an indictment of the "standard".

I'll even be more direct: in a world awash in "indecency"; it's the fundamental "decency" of roots music, particularly Bluegrass, that serves as one of the biggest draws for me. I like it that it's not as loud, as angry, as profane, as the larger world around it. I think, right along with the style of music itself, that this different "culture" is something that guys like McCoury, Skaggs; and even younger guys like Thile, are working hard to preserve and I applaud them for it. 

Now I know there are exceptions; bawdy songs and rowdy acts, but I still say that, at it's very core, this music that so many of us love so much is different. It's "heart" is different.

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## Fretbear

Write an entire LP's worth of bluegrass songs approved by Del and Ronny McCoury and then have their band, one of the best working in the bluegrass business, record, release and tour it with you. 
Oh, yeah, he already did.......

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## SincereCorgi

> I'll even be more direct: in a world awash in "indecency"; it's the fundamental "decency" of roots music, particularly Bluegrass, that serves as one of the biggest draws for me. I like it that it's not as loud, as angry, as profane, as the larger world around it. I think, right along with the style of music itself, that this different "culture" is something that guys like McCoury, Skaggs; and even younger guys like Thile, are working hard to preserve and I applaud them for it. 
> 
> Now I know there are exceptions; bawdy songs and rowdy acts, but I still say that, at it's very core, this music that so many of us love so much is different. It's "heart" is different.


Uh, you realize that most of the blues and at least half of bluegrass songs are about happy-go-lucky vagrancy and murder?

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## Fretbear

> Uh, you realize that most of the blues and at least half of bluegrass songs are about happy-go-lucky vagrancy and murder?


Without question, and not to mention that it's originator, while undoubtedly a good practitioner of gospel music, constantly went from woman to woman (like any good bluesman) and often neglected to pay (or adequately pay) his band, which is a type of theft. While I somewhat get behind this idea of roots and acoustic music's ability to lay claim to a kind of MUSICAL purity, let's keep our feet on the ground about it.

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## Ed Goist

I am neither a Bluegrass practitioner nor a fan. I am a neutral observer, who enjoys some music that is often categorized as Bluegrass (Nolan Faulkner, Marty Stuart & Peter Rowan, for example).

As an observer, it seems to me that many of the discussions here on the Cafe about what "is" or "isn't" Bluegrass often become extremely contentious, and sometimes down-right nasty.

If I were a Bluegrass practitioner nor a fan I'd be very concerned about this. This is the type of thing that can be a real turn-off for someone potentially interested in the music.

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## Buddah

> Uptight? Okay, if you say so. If you think it adds to the enjoyment of a live performance to listen to the headliner use profanity, vulgarity and obscenity, go for it. I don't. I'm not a prude and  I've used all the words in my life, but I realize that they are not necessary for communication, nor for expressing my opinion. Any fan of old movies knows that they got the idea across without all the language and what is left to the imagination is sufficient to sell the plot. We are who we are 24/7/365; there ought not be a "church" facet and a "world" facet of our personalities. My 2¢ worth.


I generally love (and agree) with your posts Jim, but the island that you're stepping out onto is a dangerous one, eh?

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## Dagger Gordon

'I certainly wouldn't classify him as a "bluegrass writer" either; to the extent that he's classifiable, I'd place him in the "Hardcore Folk/Americana/Rock & Roll Acoustica category. That said, when he decides to write a bluegrass type of tune, he comes up with some of the most compelling, melodic and flat-out interesting stuff out there (IMHO).'

(Originally Posted by Buddah )


I definitely agree with that.  

I realise that many folk here are out and out bluegrassers, but most of the work Steve has done is not bluegrass so it's maybe good not to concentrate too much on his album with McCoury.  It's not his only stab at that kind of thing though - Train A Comin' was done with Peter Rowan, Norman Blake and Roy Huskey Jr.

I think it's pretty obvious that he is politically fairly outspoken in a way that might put people off, but for me that is one of the things I like about him. I think people SHOULD be writing songs about events like the oil spill in the Gulf Of Mexico or the efforts of New Orleans to rebuild after Hurricane Katrina - both of which he tackles on the new CD.

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## LastMohican

> I am neither a Bluegrass practitioner nor a fan. I am a neutral observer, who enjoys some music that is often categorized as Bluegrass (Nolan Faulkner, Marty Stuart & Peter Rowan, for example).
> 
> As an observer, it seems to me that many of the discussions here on the Cafe about what "is" or "isn't" Bluegrass often become extremely contentious, and sometimes down-right nasty.
> 
> If I were a Bluegrass practitioner nor a fan I'd be very concerned about this. This is the type of thing that can be a real turn-off for someone potentially interested in the music.


Yeah...I've never had a "dog" in that fight. I just don't care about it. I mean, from my chair, there is a very strong effort to both preserve and grow traditional Bluegrass. And, some of my absolute favorite music is the new stuff with traditional instrumentation but that explores different styles and sounds. My IPOD is filled with that stuff.

I guess a simpler way to make my earlier point: Listening to Bill Monroe is different than listening to NWA! Insightful!  :Smile:

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## catmandu2

> Uh, you realize that most of the blues and at least half of bluegrass songs are about happy-go-lucky vagrancy and murder?


"...purity, let's keep our feet on the ground about it."

Quite.  The notion that "old-time" music is paragon of pure and "wholesome" values pops up often on these threads--not surprisingly--as many prefer nostalgic revision to historical accuracy.  (see adjacent "Monroe" thread, or jack white for that matter..)

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## LastMohican

> "...purity, let's keep our feet on the ground about it."
> 
> Quite.  The notion that "old-time" music is paragon of pure and "wholesome" values pops up often on these threads--not surprisingly--as many prefer nostalgic revision to historical accuracy.  (see adjacent "Monroe" thread, or jack white for that matter..)


Yeah, that's true. But there's a cultural balance that seems unique to me. I'm not aware of any other form of American music where so much of the foundational repetroire is made up of Gospel music. I mean; from Monroe foward, among all the higher profile acts, what's the percentage devoted to Gopsel music? 25%? 30%? I don't know for sure but it's significantly higher than any other "Roots" discipline. Blues; a smattering. Jazz; zero. Rock & Roll; same. Folk music also has a core repetroire devoted to Gospel but, based on my exposure to Folk (limited compared to Bluegrass) it's still not near what you find in Bluegrass.

This also points to another very significant differnce that speaks to the "culture" of Bluegrass music: for many fans (myself included) it was the strong Gospel component that drew me to the music orignally. Now I listen to all of it.

But there is no other form on American music I'm aware of where Gospel serves as a compelling "gateway" to the broader genre.

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## Jim Broyles

> I generally love (and agree) with your posts Jim, but the island that you're stepping out onto is a dangerous one, eh?


Look, someone upthread said that performers and fans of bluegrass are so uptight they ought to be at church instead of at a concert. My point is that I would no more want to hear  vulgar language  at a concert than I would at church, or at work, or at a ballgame or anywhere else and uptight has nothing to do with it. Why is this dangerous?

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## catmandu2

Yes, LastMo I can appreciate all that.  It's interesting (as a sociologist) to observe the dynamic of how folks handle "defending" their preferences--it often gets wacky indeed.  As Ed said--it often brings out unsavoriness in folks.

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## GTison

"Some of the performers and fans are so uptight they should be in church instead of a concert"
Not a very tolerant statement would you say?

Yes vulgarity in public is common these days.  We hear "Don't be judgmental." Well why not, what does that mean anyway.  Where does it come from?  
Freedom of speech may not include public vulgar speech.  Freedom of speech is about freedom of ideas and expression and practice of those.  However, there are laws against vulgar speech everywhere. Google it.  In addition, if you think curse words are OK, go ahead and type a string of curse words on this forum.  Do you think the Moderators will just say nothing or let it pass through?  

 I would HATE  to see the Bluegrass become like much of HipHop/Rap music, as far as cursing and base thoughts expressed.   I thought it deserved an honest dissension as to whether Steve Earle was bluegrass.  Indeed the title of the thread ask what we thought of Steve Earle.  I guess we've strayed off a bit uh?

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## LastMohican

> Yes, LastMo I can appreciate all that.  It's interesting (as a sociologist) to observe the dynamic of how folks handle "defending" their preferences--it often gets wacky indeed.  As Ed said--it often brings out unsavoriness in folks.


Look, I think you cats are great, I know this music we love is more than great, and, by and large; I think Steve's great.

Let's all just keep pickin', grinnin' and hoping for the best! :Grin:

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## sgarrity

"Some of the performers and fans are so uptight they should be in church instead of a concert"

That was my statement and I stand behind it.  Notice I said "some" and not "all."  My point was I find it bizarre that people would complain about Steve Earle and a few cuss words.  That's kind of like going to a Doyle Lawson concert and complaining there's too much gospel music, or going to a Grateful Dead or other jamband concert and wondering why all those cigarettes smell funny.  Or complaining that Ricky Skaggs preaches too much and plays too little.  All those situations are pretty much a given!  But you aren't going to change them.  Not to mention censorship has no place in art.

I like Steve Earle and his son Justin Townes Earle is every bit as good.  Steve has strong opinions and isn't afraid to share them and I admire that.  If he tosses in a few four letter words, I just don't care.  They are in our language for a reason and can be quite effective in conveying certain emotions.  This is 2011 not 1951.  I love to listen to the old music.  Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, etc.  But I have no desire to live in the past.

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## catmandu2

> Look, I think you cats are great, I know this music we love is more than great, and, by and large; I think Steve's great.
> 
> Let's all just keep pickin', grinnin' and hoping for the best!


LastMo- my comment was not directed toward you (nor even necessarily a criticism--what would cybernetting be without such IMO dialogue anyway!)...I'm but a skimmer myself, anyway..  And we are all wacky about something, anyway too (also)..   :Wink: 

Personally, I like cuss and abstainers a horseapiece.  Well, I generally like non-cussin...I like to be able to bring my kids with me when I play (half the time, I can't...for some of the reasons mentioned upthreds (love Jim's term   :Smile:

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## LastMohican

> If he tosses in a few four letter words, I just don't care.  They are in our language for a reason and can be quite effective in conveying certain emotions.  This is 2011 not 1951.  I love to listen to the old music.  Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, etc.  But I have no desire to live in the past.


Here's the quintessetial "agree to disagree" moment: If I'm reading this right, this is really not an endorsement of Steve Earle but this is more a defense of profanity?

The Earle endorsement: I'll agree with (with some qualifications)
The Profanity endorsement: Sorry-not down for than one.

And (only speaking for myself), whether its 2011, 1951 of AD 31; none of that has any bearing on what I think is right or wrong; what is profane and corrupts our condition and what is moral and right and lifts us all up. Each person makes those calls for himself.

As I said in an earlier post, I would never attempt to limt anyones right to free expression. I know what my remedy is-I just remove myslef from the environment. Maybe that's why I haven't turned a television on now for several months. I just got tired of the constant "messaging" that runs 180 degrees out of phase with what I personally believe. Then one day the "fix" hit me and I got up an turned the infernal contraption off. I've have been incrementally happier ever since! :Smile: 

On a lighter note: on my way to see Alison Krause and Union Station at the Louisville Palace tomorrow night and I'm STOKED! :Grin:

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## catmandu2

Best thing I ever did was kill my tv box a few years ago.  My wife is trying to teach me how to use her droid, but I refuse...I love that the old school is a basic cellphone with unlimited LD..  Other than music cafes, not very many other things on the netwebs interests me much.

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## Jim Broyles

> "Some of the performers and fans are so uptight they should be in church instead of a concert"
> 
> That was my statement and I stand behind it.  Notice I said "some" and not "all."  or going to a Grateful Dead or other jamband concert and wondering why all those cigarettes smell funny.  Or complaining that Ricky Skaggs preaches too much and plays too little.  All those situations are pretty much a given!  But you aren't going to change them.  Not to mention censorship has no place in art.
> 
> I like Steve Earle and his son Justin Townes Earle is every bit as good.  Steve has strong opinions and isn't afraid to share them and I admire that.  If he tosses in a few four letter words, I just don't care.  They are in our language for a reason and can be quite effective in conveying certain emotions.  This is 2011 not 1951.  I love to listen to the old music.  Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, etc.  But I have no desire to live in the past.


Shaun, I'm not going to turn this into a one-up contest, but this statement is a little strange, to me:


> My point was I find it bizarre that people would complain about Steve Earle and a few cuss words.  That's kind of like going to a Doyle Lawson concert and complaining there's too much gospel music...


 Why would a reasonable person who enjoys an artist's work be expected to know that if they attend a live performance by said artist, they will be subjected to foul language? I mean, fans of his know that Doyle Lawson features gospel in his recordings, so any fan would expect gospel at a DL concert. I do care if an artist feels that their status as a performer gives them a license to be crude or vulgar or even obscene. Like I said, shut up and sing. I realize that if I dislike enough of the content of your music, I don't have to support you, but you don't have to offend my ears  just because you get paid to play and I don't.

----------


## cstewart

"And always remember friends, there's no room in vulgarity for bluegrass." - Steve Earle

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## sgarrity

I'm going to assume that some of you guys probably didn't think George Carlin was funny???   LOL

I'm not advocating for people to use profanity.  But I'm certainly not going to let it turn me off of a gifted artist.  I was listening to the Mountain this morning at the gym.  And it is a spectacular recording.  Too bad there won't be a follow up to it.

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## Mandobart

I'll stand up on Bob Dylan's (AND anyone else's) coffee table in my dirty old biker boots and say that Steve Earle is the greatest songwriter living today.

(modified, without artisitc license, from a Steve Earle quote on the late great Townes Van Zandt.  But I really do believe it.)

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## Fretbear

Steve Earle is a protest singer, an outlaw poet, a reformed junkie, an ex-convict, and a proud American. When he was born in Fort Monroe, Virginia, his father first touched his feet to the red Texas dirt that he had kept in a tobacco can for the occasion. He has a big mouth and larger opinions, and he would rather die than live under any yoke that "normal society" prescribes, be they sexual or racial prejudice, state-sanctioned murder as punishment for crime, or telling him what he (or you) can or cannot say.

----------


## Mandobart

For those of us who do not like profanity, Steve Earle has written some great inspiring tunes as well, listen to this:



My favorite albums are The Mountain, I feel Alright, Transcendental Blues, Jerusalem, El Corazon

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## Jim Broyles

I thought George Carlin was funny forty years ago. I don't any longer and haven't for at least fifteen years.

----------


## Cheryl Watson

I think he's a really solid songwriter, brilliant at times.  Some of his songs and his delivery of them are too red-necky/blue collar/hard core/political for my taste but I realize that Steve is a man's man and I get that and I get his music. "My Old Friend the Blues" and "Someday" are two of my favorites.

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## Ed Goist

OMG, Mandobart: Has Neil Young passed away?!!!    :Grin:

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## Mandobart

> OMG, Mandobart: Has Neil Young passed away?!!!



Still love Neil; wouldn't have ever learned guitar without John Prine and Neil Young.  But Steve Earle is a better songwriter (to me)

----------


## Ed Goist

Of course, these guys are all great. I just couldn't pass on that one...Kind of a softball.  :Smile:

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## Chris Ferreira

Steve Earle is one of the best American singer-songwriters out there.  Definitely in my Top Ten.  His "Days are Never Long Enough" with his wife (Allison Moorer) is incredible.  The guy can play all styles and you believe him.  Check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPQgaNt2Ww

----------


## Fretbear

From a tribute to Gram Parsons:
"Vancouver might be just-a-my-kind of town.."
(including strangest mandolin content ever)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlN2a...eature=related

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## Dagger Gordon

Good video, Fretbear.

It was a slightly curious mandolin feature.  Who was the mandolin player?

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

> Steve Earle is a protest singer, an outlaw poet, a reformed junkie, an ex-convict, and a proud American. When he was born in Fort Monroe, Virginia, his father first touched his feet to the red Texas dirt that he had kept in a tobacco can for the occasion. He has a big mouth and larger opinions, and he would rather die than live under any yoke that "normal society" prescribes, be they sexual or racial prejudice, state-sanctioned murder as punishment for crime, or telling him what he (or you) can or cannot say.


Nicely said, FB. 




> "And always remember friends, there's no room in vulgarity for bluegrass." - Steve Earle


lol -- good one CS, but lest others take that line from Transcendental Blues out of context, they should know that it was said tongue in cheek _after_ Del's criticism of his on stage banter.

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## barney 59

Steve Earle is hands down the best topical songwriter going. I've talked with Steve Earle on several occasions and if I remember correctly he referred to himself as a "folksinger". I've heard him perform with his "Bluegrass Dukes" that includes Tim O'Brian and it sounds like bluegrass to me if and when he wants it to. He knows the difference and can perform it and in a historical context --single mic,  Monroe hat and all. I think "folksinger" gives him the greatest latitude and he can shift to any style of Americana the he feels like at will without the constraint of definitions and he's pretty good at all of them. His strong suit, beyond his great song writing, is his stage presence. He can really work a room! 
"It always amazes me the amount of pinko s**t that you can get away with in a bluegrass song." ---Steve Earle

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## AKmusic

I _really like_ some of his stuff, especially The Mountian w/DC.  But most of his other stuff (electric)?  naaaaaa...  don't care for it - *at all*. 

Just me.

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## Buddah

> Why would a reasonable person who enjoys an artist's work be expected to know that if they attend a live performance by said artist, they will be subjected to foul language?


A reasonable person who enjoys Steve Earle's work would likely know that he's recorded a tune called "F*** the FCC."  That same reasonable person might then reasonably expect to be "subjected" to foul language at a SE live performance, no?  If this is true, then Sgarrity's analogies would appear to hold some water.  
At any rate, I think many of us would agree that SE's dropping of the occasional F-bomb (or whatever) isn't done gratuitously, but rather to convey a genuinely passionate frustration for the weighty issues that he often writes about.  Are there other ways to articulate such a message?  I suppose so...

----------


## Buddah

> From a tribute to Gram Parsons:
> "Vancouver might be just-a-my-kind of town.."
> (including strangest mandolin content ever)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlN2a...eature=related


Ha!  That was a bit odd (in a recklessly cool kinda way).  Ira Glass meets Woody Allen and Elvis Costello and somehow they stumble upon the mandolin counterpart to Willie Nelson's "Trigger"...I love how Steve is cracking up by the end of that solo!

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## Jim Broyles

Well, I like a few of Earle's songs, but I didn't know that one. Whatever. I really don't care what Steve Earle thinks of weighty issues, nor would I deliberately attend any of his live performances. BTW I just looked up that song. The concept is flawed to put it nicely and if Lenny Bruce ODed so we can be free, God help us. Pretty gratuitous song right there. I'd say it's a vehicle for vulgarity and not much more. Edit: I just listened to the first verse and I am now done with Steve Earle. He officially does nothing for me.

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## Buddah

Perhaps one man's "flawed concept" is another's critique of a  (perceived) domination of the air/radio waves by one group at the expense of another?  Perhaps the reference to Lenny Bruce was a not-so-subtle tip of the hat to Lenny's groundbreaking (this need not be read as praise for Bruce's act) stand-up, and subsequent 1st-amendment legal struggles?
Obviously not your cup of tea, Jim...no biggie!

----------


## Fretbear

When I heard his remark about his boots and Bob Dylan's coffee table, I realized that he had an abrasive personality, no doubt.
Worshiping Townes doesn't require such an ungracious and aggressive statement, but on the other hand, SE has penned at least a dozen songs that grab me someplace that no other songwriter ever has. That is also a big statement but one I can easily make. I would make an exception for Townes "Pancho & Lefty", but the only reason I even know about that song or sing it is because SE turned me on to it.

"I don’t give a f**k about the labels going under one way or the other, but why it happened is as much the artist’s fault as it is the label’s. 
Trust me, there are some artists who don’t have a clue how they’d make a living without a record label. 
But me, I can busk, dude, and have and will."

Steve Earle

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## Buddah

Well said Fretbear...and great quote from SE!  Hadn't heard that one before...

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## journeybear

This is from a long time ago, but still a great performance, and the first minute of the interview segment is priceless. He sums up some basic aspects of the mandolin for those new to it succinctly and humorously.

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## Dagger Gordon

Good performance and a very good interview.

I think his fairly simple open chord type of mandolin sounds very effective in a band setting.  I could hear it clearly and it really drives the music.  It's not bluegrass, but I'm sure it must have inspired a lot of people to try playing the mandolin.  I'm sure he is quite an influential player.

I also thought his efforts to help homeless children were pretty laudable.  Good for him.

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## journeybear

My band does this, and I had been having a bit of a hard time keeping in synch with the guitarist/singer. He suggested I look this up, which he said he follows pretty exactly. Worked like a charm. I have always loved those big loud hits on the open D chord - one of the high points of our show for me. A chance to show how strong the instrument can sound. And it shows in this performance - great to hear a mandolin driving a full rock band, and, for that matter, mixed loud enough!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Fretbear

That "Copperhead Road" D riff works very nicely (and sounds good) as a D9, which is just the low G fretted at the second fret and the rest ringing open, as the open E (instead of the sometimes "odd" sounding F#) is the ninth of the D.
I updated a few of the lyrics for this one:

I done two tours of duty in El Salaam
I came home with a brand new plan

I learned a thing or two from Haaji, don't you know...
You better stay away from Copperhead Road....

----------


## Ron McMillan

I own most of Steve Earle's CD output from the last twenty years, and enjoy it all. I have seen him live several times, and loved him each time. I don't recall him emitting even one curse word, but if he had, I probably would have forgotten it - because the occasional use of such language certainly has a place in the modern world, never mind that some people can't abide it even in small doses.

One of Steve's great attractions is his openly politicised standpoint that deals with real issues. We need counterbalances to the sickly sweet and the narcissistic and the anodyne and the overtly faith-laden and the hypocritical and the blindly, unthinkingly, patriotic - and great singers and songwriters like Steve Earle provide a welcome counterbalance. I saw him at a concert in Scotland that was to benefit a human rights cause, and during which he shared the stage with other great, and similarly politicised singers/songwriters - Elvis Costello, John Prine and Emmylou Harris. Most artists pay lip service to issues of right and wrong - Steve Earle and others give up their time and use their names and reputations to highlight injustices.

All that *and* he's one of the greatest songwriters of our time.

ron

----------


## Fretbear

> We need counterbalances to the sickly sweet and the narcissistic and the anodyne and the overtly faith-laden and the blindly, unthinkingly, patriotic - and great singers and songwriters like Steve Earle provide a welcome counterbalance.
> All that *and* he's one of the greatest songwriters of our time.


Not to mention the simple-minded, sub-moronic popular taste evidenced by the latest winner of "American Idol." I couldn't agree more.

----------


## mandolirius

> From a tribute to Gram Parsons:
> "Vancouver might be just-a-my-kind of town.."
> (including strangest mandolin content ever)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlN2a...eature=related


I don't know. I see something like that and it's like the instrument is being ridiculed, as if that's all it's good for.

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## journeybear

Really. As Fretbear says, strangest mandolin content ever. I mean, you've got your eight bars of glory coming up, and that's what you've worked out?  :Disbelief:  I appreciate the gusto, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. Then there's the tuning ... Oh well, it's not the main attraction here. I am sorely tempted, though, to resurrect the mandolin misuse thread ...  :Whistling:

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## Ron McMillan

> I don't know. I see something like that and it's like the instrument is being ridiculed, as if that's all it's good for.


And wasn't the 'player' of the mandolin solo actually Bruce Springsteen wearing Elvis Costello's glasses??

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## LastMohican

I guess the biggest personal endorsement I could give to SE (and not that he, in any way, needs my endorsement!) is that he is an entertainer where my appreciation of his talent is (for the msot part) unaffected by the fact that I disagree with almost all of his espoused political views. I always felt the same way regarding Newman as an actor; didn't agree with him politically but view him as one of the greatest American actors of all time. I think in both cases too there is an inherent sincerity that's endearing. I mean, I've spent years running into Kroger to by a bottle of Newman's salad dressing a. because I like it and b. because, at the end of the day, I was always convinced that Newman will absolutely ensure that the proceeds from this will truly go to help kids.

On the other side of the coin; I can go the rest of my life an never see another movie with Sean Penn and that would be A-OK with me.  :Grin: 

And regarding blueron's previos post: You are obviously running into a lot more "faith-laden" messaging out in the world than I am! In my world; I could couter-balance these messages with the contents of a thimble!

----------


## goldtopper

I dunno.
He's a great songwriter, had a successful recovery and that's great.
He's one of those guys who can't keep his mouth shut and is passionate about many things with which I disagree.
That said, he gets heard because he has a public forum where he can crow- loudly.
His opinion is no more important, or right or wrong, than the lady at the McDonalds drive through.

----------


## Rex Hart

The lyrics to "Ben McCullough" literally blow me away, but it is hard for me to swallow the foul language in the chorus. But those verses....wow.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> I own most of Steve Earle's CD output from the last twenty years, and enjoy it all. I have seen him live several times, and loved him each time. I don't recall him emitting even one curse word, but if he had, I probably would have forgotten it - because the occasional use of such language certainly has a place in the modern world, never mind that some people can't abide it even in small doses.
> 
> One of Steve's great attractions is his openly politicised standpoint that deals with real issues. We need counterbalances to the sickly sweet and the narcissistic and the anodyne and the overtly faith-laden and the hypocritical and the blindly, unthinkingly, patriotic - and great singers and songwriters like Steve Earle provide a welcome counterbalance. I saw him at a concert in Scotland that was to benefit a human rights cause, and during which he shared the stage with other great, and similarly politicised singers/songwriters - Elvis Costello, John Prine and Emmylou Harris. Most artists pay lip service to issues of right and wrong - Steve Earle and others give up their time and use their names and reputations to highlight injustices.
> 
> All that *and* he's one of the greatest songwriters of our time.
> 
> ron


 Yes sir,to that.

----------


## journeybear

> ... His opinion is no more important, or right or wrong, than the lady at the McDonalds drive through.


Maybe so. Might be just a bit more considered and composed, though, from working on his craft for so long.

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## Fretbear

> I dunno.
> He's a great songwriter, had a successful recovery and that's great.
> He's one of those guys who can't keep his mouth shut and is passionate about many things with which I disagree.
> That said, he gets heard because he has a public forum where he can crow- loudly.
> His opinion is no more important, or right or wrong, than the lady at the McDonalds drive through.


He gets heard because he forcibly kicked down the door that prevented him being listened to by writing his songs, and putting in the time and effort required to perform and record them so that they could not easily be ignored. He also does it so that lady working at the drive-through as a minimum-wage drone for that bloodless corporation might also have a voice.

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## LastMohican

> He also does it so that lady working at the drive-through as a minimum-wage drone for that bloodless corporation might also have a voice.


One man's "bloodless corporation" and social villain is another man's "for-profit enterprise", just a business(nothing more-nothing less), and has no responsibility to be any type of social practitioner.  I guess the counter help in the fast food industry could all organize and then, like all unions, they'd have an "uber voice" that none of us could ignore. But then we'd all be paying $23 bucks for a cheeseburger, we'd all just eat somewhere else, the bloodless corporation (as is it's right), shuts its doors, and now the drone's "voice" is even further diminished and she becomes a true "ward of the state" and, suddenly, another person we are all responsible for. That just doesn't work for me.

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## journeybear

So, what do you think of Steve Earle?  :Confused:

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## goldtopper

> He gets heard because he forcibly kicked down the door that prevented him being listened to by writing his songs, and putting in the time and effort required to perform and record them so that they could not easily be ignored. He also does it so that lady working at the drive-through as a minimum-wage drone for that bloodless corporation might also have a voice.


That's really quite demeaning calling a corporation bloodless that provides jobs and benefits for hundreds of thousands of people. How big does a corporation have to be when they go from acceptable to bloodless?
And about the drive through attendant- maybe that's all they are qualified for and actually enjoy what they are doing? Calling them drones? What a bloodless thing to say.
I wonder what Steve's roadie's benefit package includes? 401K? Benefits? Yeah, right. I'd be willing to bet they aren't as good as what McDonalds offers it's fulltime employees.

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## Cheryl Watson

Anyone who likes homogenized, politically correct, cookie-cutter, perfectly in tune mainstream music with no rawness or profanity whatsoever, would certainly be put off by him and would not get him.  There is a side to me that is somewhat like him and my conservative family members are often put off by me and when they try to control what I say and think and feel, I fight back and stand up for myself.  I can't say that I care for all of Earle's music but I really get him.  He is quite the opposite of American Idol (which I have grown to intensely dislike) isn't he?

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## swampy

I did and still do think he is a great songwriter, but ever since reading his story, I find it hard to support him sometimes. During the process of becoming the greatest ever, he wronged a lot of people and left a lot of relationships shredded in his wake. But it's all OK because he fights against the death penalty and takes on "the man". It's the idolatry that gets to me. We are so easy to forget and forgive the junkies, adulterers and absentee fathers, as long as they can play a mean guitar or mando or shoot a basketball or star on a TV show, whatever. There is too much selfish behavior that gets rewarded IMHO. For the record, I'm not an uptight, prudish, bible-thumping, self-righteous person, I just have certain standards. I realize everyone is flawed, but I think you can get a point across without referring to your audience as "all you Motherf***ers" (see example below) I guess I'm just not capable of separating the man from the entertainer. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1pNQ...eature=related

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## LastMohican

> I did and still do think he is a great songwriter, but ever since reading his story, I find it hard to support him sometimes. During the process of becoming the greatest ever, he wronged a lot of people and left a lot of relationships shredded in his wake. But it's all OK because he fights against the death penalty and takes on "the man". It's the idolatry that gets to me. We are so easy to forget and forgive the junkies, adulterers and absentee fathers, as long as they can play a mean guitar or mando or shoot a basketball or star on a TV show, whatever. There is too much selfish behavior that gets rewarded IMHO. For the record, I'm not an uptight, prudish, bible-thumping, self-righteous person, I just have certain standards. I realize everyone is flawed, but I think you can get a point across without referring to your audience as "all you Motherf***ers" (see example below) I guess I'm just not capable of separating the man from the entertainer. 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1pNQ...eature=related


Doggone, Swamp, that's close to perfect! 

One of my favorite movie lines on all time:

"Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire" -Homer Bannon from the movie "Hud".

I'm moving on to another thread now but I couldn't add anymore to this over and above Swamp's post. 

I'll see you cats up the board where we can bet back to talking about how moving back and forth between chop chords has me contemplating suicide!

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## Mandobart

> ...during which he shared the stage with...Elvis Costello, John Prine and Emmylou Harris....


Wow!  That must have been one great show!

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## Fretbear

The Bluegrass Dukes featuring Tim O'Brien, Darrell Scott, Casey Driessen and Dennis Crouch; 
Too bad he can't get any good players to join him..... 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syHDY...eature=related

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## Fretbear

I wonder how many other guys Tim hands over his famous Nugget to.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jngBrzeu-4U&NR=1

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## sgarrity

Why I love Steve Earle:









I could go on and on.......the sunburst flatiron zouk is cool!

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## SincereCorgi

> I did and still do think he is a great songwriter, but ever since reading his story, I find it hard to support him sometimes. During the process of becoming the greatest ever, he wronged a lot of people and left a lot of relationships shredded in his wake. But it's all OK because he fights against the death penalty and takes on "the man". It's the idolatry that gets to me. We are so easy to forget and forgive the junkies, adulterers and absentee fathers, as long as they can play a mean guitar or mando or shoot a basketball or star on a TV show, whatever. There is too much selfish behavior that gets rewarded IMHO. For the record, I'm not an uptight, prudish, bible-thumping, self-righteous person, I just have certain standards. I realize everyone is flawed, but I think you can get a point across without referring to your audience as "all you Motherf***ers" (see example below) I guess I'm just not capable of separating the man from the entertainer. 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1pNQ...eature=related


I say this with all good humor, but if you're offended by a bit of profanity - clearly used as the punchline of a joke since he's a southerner addressing an audience in the capital of 'the north' - you might be a _little_ bit prudish. I sympathize with how you might feel about Earle after reading his bio, though, I've never read it and am blissfully ignorant of everything but the major details. I've had at least a couple musicians spoiled for me by weird encounters with their personalities. What I walked away from that video with was 'Wow, Steve Earle's kind of a Civil War nerd.'

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## Fretbear

MIC....KEY......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSK18...eature=related

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## Dagger Gordon

'We are so easy to forget and forgive the junkies, adulterers and absentee fathers, as long as they can play a mean guitar or mando or shoot a basketball'


Fair comment.  But at the same time there's been an awful lot of great music made by people guilty of much of that.  I love the jazz of Charlie Parker and Art Pepper, for example.  I know they had had drug problems, but it doesn't stop me wanting to hear their music, and I should think virtually every rock band that has ever existed would probably have to put their hands up to most of the above.  

This is Mandolin Cafe, and Steve Earle has done as much as anybody to put our instrument in the public eye.

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## mandolino maximus

I don't think little of him, I just think of him little.  

2 out of 5 pedestals -  I mean stars.

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## journeybear

> This is Mandolin Cafe, and Steve Earle has done as much as anybody to put our instrument in the public eye.


Hear hear! And it does also help that a lot of his music is pretty darned good. Most of the time I am interested in a musician's _music_, not his or her personal life - however it may be said that that influences his or her music. People in the public eye have private lives just like everyone else does, and private lives are not anybody else's concern, except perhaps gossips and gossip mongers.

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## mandolino maximus

Now would be the time to get his contributions to putting mandolin in the public eye out there.  Not being sarcastic. I don't know and there is not much mando content in this thread to make a determination.  Some of his stuff has no mando content, he often plays guitar.  He's just never got much of my attention.  I would be grateful for having my oversights cleared up.  It might be educational for others as well.  (Or contentious).

(I seem to cross musical tastes with TBone over time (starting with Warren Zevon), so I'm also not doubting that the new CD should be good.)

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## barney 59

I think Steve Earle did have a pretty screwed up past and he's the first to admit it.  He had to pay a price for it. Sex, drugs and rock and roll can get you into a great deal of trouble. I had my little moment there and it can be over whelming finding yourself surrounded by a crowd that never sleeps and drugs and alcohol served day and night.  We all are screw ups and we all take turns. I could care less about where someone has been, it's where they are or where they are going that matters. Seems like all the best artists have always been and continue to be a little crazy anyway. How totally messed up a person can make his personal life shouldn't be used to judge the quality of their work. I kind of like it when all I know about a musician is their music. Some personal things are really important like "How the hell did Lyle Lovett land Julia Roberts!?" but that's only because I was hoping for that spot.

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## Dagger Gordon

"Now would be the time to get his contributions to putting mandolin in the public eye out there."

He plays it quite a bit, but even if all he had done was 'Copperhead Road' and 'Galway Girl',  I would say - in terms of numbers of people seeing him playing a mandolin and wanting to learn those specific songs - that he had got more people started at the mandolin than just about anybody.  He also probably raised the profile of bluegrass to a wider audience through his association with Del McCoury.

There have been a few Youtubes put up already here. Check out his Letterman appearance with Copperhead Road and an interview about the mandolin and 'Galway Girl' with Sharon Shannon.

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## barney 59

That Moon mandolin that Steve is playing on "Galway Girl" is for sale by the way.

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## AKmusic

> "...in terms of numbers of people seeing him playing a mandolin and wanting to learn those specific songs - that he had got more people started at the mandolin than just about anybody.  He also probably raised the profile of bluegrass to a wider audience through his association with Del McCoury.


oh my... I have to say, you are being *VERY VERY GENEROUS!!!*
But I'm sure there might be a few others that may agree... 
I am more inclined to say that Del McCoury did more for raising the profile of SE and his desire to be identified or associated with BG than anything. SE has never been a bluegrass musician in my eyes. Still isn't. He is - at best - a musician that can play some songs on the mandolin and can play a few bluegrasss tunes well, when he has the right folks behind him. But he is (imo) a successful _opportunist_ - a capitalist disguised as a liberal protest songwriter - not much more. Like most of our politicians today - he has learned enough about popular liberal protest talking points to gain attention but if you listen close - he will sometimes reveal that he doesn't really know what he is talking about.

But - like I said earlier - he has written a few songs that I really like and I do play - but not very many. The rest of his work? ...I don't have any desire to listen again.

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## JeffD

> and Steve Earle has done as much as anybody to put our instrument in the public eye.


I agree.

The next step, (unless Steve has done it and I haven't heard it), is to do stuff on the mandolin that is mandolinny. To be specific, do stuff on the mandolin which no other instrument does better.

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## journeybear

Just wanted to point out that "to put our instrument in the public eye" is NOT the same as "to play it so well that people take notice as much as anybody." The above-mentioned two songs, particularly "Copperhead Road," have achieved a certain level of visibility and recognition that eludes the efforts of a great many other people playing mandolin outside of the bluegrass community - which as most people will agree is a pretty small one. And who could certainly play circles around Steve Earle - but that is not the point. For whatever reason, my band always gets a good response when we do "Copperhead Road;" that has to mean something. I don't think it's just the subject matter or attitude.

I think the way he plays it on that song - or maybe the way *I* play it, trying to replicate the way he plays it or the way I think he plays it (hard to pin this stuff down sometimes) - actually IS mandolinny, just in a bolder way than most people expect it to be played or are used to it being played. And again, since on that song (and others) I find it freeing to bash it out a bit, I look forward to when we play it. My style is subtle when subtlety is called for, but I enjoy being bold with the instrument, and believe the instrument can be used this way successfully. "Copperhead Road" gives me that opportunity, partly inherently, partly due to Steve Earle having accomplished something with it already in the public eye, and mind.

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## catmandu2

> ...do stuff on the mandolin which no other instrument does better.


viz. guitar

I've had requests for "Copperhead Road."  CR may become as de rigeuer for the mandolin performer as Dueling Banjos...   :Sleepy:  : We'll say, "but have a listen to this..." (playing Billy in the Lowground); the audience then says, "Nah, that ain't mando...THIS is mando! (air emulating a guitar) 

That part can be played by Taylor Swift on a six-string banjo

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## Fretbear

> I am more inclined to say that Del McCoury did more for raising the profile of SE and his desire to be identified or associated with BG than anything. SE has never been a bluegrass musician in my eyes. Still isn't.


He is not "associated" with Bluegrass music, he wrote an entire LP's worth of *original* kick-your-teeth-in bluegrass numbers and played them, sang them, recorded them and toured them *under his own name* along with The Del McCoury Band. I have listened to just about every important bluegrass recording that exists, and would put "The Mountain" amongst the top ten for it's drive, originality and bluesy edge. 
The members of (one of) his road bands "The Bluegrass Dukes" are amongst the best in the business.......

And he can stand alone on any stage in the world with just a guitar _or_ a mandolin and his voice and songs and leave them weeping or stomping in the aisles. 
One person's actions speak louder than another person's opinions.

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## AKmusic

*You are absolutely correct!* Steve Earl's actions - and his mouth - and his songs speak a whole lot louder about all things "Steve Earl" than my opinion ever could. I agree, and so does Del. And I don't think you will find very many "bluegrassers" sharing your opinion. No one I know personally feels the way you do. I respect your opinion, but I don't share it.

What's wrong with this picture?

I was born on this mountain a long time ago 
Before they knocked down the timber and strip-mined the coal 
When you rose in the mornin' before it was light 
To go down in that dark hole and come back up at night 
I was born on this mountain, this mountain's my home 
She holds me and keeps me from worry and woe 
Well, they took everything that she gave, now they're gone 
But I'll die on this mountain, this mountain's my home 

I was young on this mountain but now I am old 
And I knew every holler, every cool swimmin' hole 
Til one night I lay down and woke up to find 
That my childhood was over and I went down in the mine 

There's a hole in this mountain and it's dark and it's deep 
And God only knows all the secrets it keeps 
There's a chill in the air only miners can feel 
There're ghosts in the tunnels that the company sealed

I do agree that The Mountain is *his* best album - in my opinion - and it does have some great songs. Having Del and his band behind Steve went a long way in making it great. Steve was smart to get them - I don't think they sought out Steve. I've played and sang Texas Eagle and Long Lonseome Highway Blues with a band, and I've played Pilgrim as a solo. And Steve has recorded a few other songs on other albums that I also like - _but very few_. 

But as much as I might like them - I would be very quick to say - a few good songs does not make Steve Earl a star or a legend in the bluegrass history book. And again - as far as the rest of his work?  ...no thanks, I don't even want to hear it again.  No appeal to me whatsoever... And those feelings go way beyond any reference to bluegrass.

edit to add: I guess what I'm trying saying is that - I can see where Steve Earl fans could say "Oh, look, Steve can also play bluegrass. Cool." And the more dedicated bluegrass world would say "He was smart to get Del McCoury if he was going to try that. Good tunes, nice try. Bye Steve."

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## Jim Broyles

Well, AK, I'm with you on Earle, but don't forget, Jim and Jesse recorded John Prine's "Paradise," which pretty much says the same thing as this song. 

Funny thing, I just listened to "Guitar Town" and "Someday" and they are still great songs. Don't like much else by him though. I kind of prefer his country/rock tunes and for him to keep politics out of it.

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## AKmusic

> Well, AK, I'm with you on Earle, but don't forget, Jim and Jesse recorded John Prine's "Paradise," which pretty much says the same thing as this song. 
> 
> Funny thing, I just listened to "Guitar Town" and "Someday" and they are still great songs. Don't like much else by him though. I kind of prefer his country/rock tunes and for him to keep politics out of it.


And I like John Prine - and play several of his songs too.
My point in all of this is to say - I agree Steve Earl has written some good songs, and I can understand some saying they are great songs. But I will sound a different voice when he is proclaimed to be this great bluegrass singer, songwriter, musician. 

To me, he is just another successful folk songwriter/craftsman and recording artist - and good self promoter, and knows how to ride coat tails. Far from being sliced bread - jmo.

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## Jim Broyles

I hear ya, my point was that there are or at least _were_ bluegrassers who share Earle's opinion on environmental and capitalism issues which opinion I gather you find "wrong with th(e) picture" of the song "The Mountain."

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## AKmusic

Nope. Environmental impact statements are not what I find wrong with the the song "The Mountain".

There may be an explanation that I'm missing - but when you strip-mine coal, there are no tunnels that the company can seal. I find it curious that he speaks with a view that would include such inaccuracies. Hints at something about his knowledge of the facts.

BTW, I do believe in capitalism as an economic system. It made it possible for us to have this conversation. I also believe managing our environment so that can support life and a social fabric that is just, insures the safety of its citizens and makes it possible for everyone to participate with equal opportunity.

I realize this dsicussion is starting to wind around a dangerous curve here - I do not intend to help it drift any further.

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## Jim Broyles

Well, I admit, I failed to catch that incongruity. Sorry for drawing an erroneous conclusion. Not going to add to it either.

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## journeybear

I swear, I wish I had written a couple of songs that were so sloppily written that people were still talking about them decades later.

As to the impact of "Copperhead Road" on mandolin consciousness in the general public ... I present the following, the official video for the single. Not the greatest use of imagery, just wanted everyone to hear the studio version of the song. (Stick with it through the bagpipes ...  :Smile:  ) Note that the driving rhythmic force for the first two verses is provided by Steve playing mandolin - even after the visual introduction of him playing guitar in the second verse, it is still mandolin driving things until the band kicks in. Now, think of how many non-bluegrass songs there are of which this can be said, and how many of them cracked the Billboard Hot 100 (this made it to #56). Not that many. Even "Maggie May" and "Losing My Religion," the highest-charting songs that feature mandolin, use the instrument melodically, not rhythmically. In this sense, "Copperhead Road" represents a milestone in the evolution of the mandolin in popular music.



On the Letterman show, he sticks with mandolin all the way through.



Just so you know, my dream band will have no guitars in it. Mandolin, bass, and drums - that's all I want and need. The rhythm mandolin sound on this is just fine with me. As far as I'm concerned, for mandolin to take its rightful place in rock music, it has to be accepted as a rhythm instrument as well as lead, and Steve Earle's contribution with this song is worth crediting. I don't know how this slipped past me for so long, and I am grateful to this thread for bringing it to my attention.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Fretbear



----------


## barney 59

The company seals the tunnels, lays off 90% of their work force and knocks the mountain down by converting to strip mining. The song doesn't not make sense to me, I find it to be actually pretty factually accurate..

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## AKmusic

> The company seals the tunnels, lays off 90% of their work force and knocks the mountain down by converting to strip mining. The song doesn't not make sense to me, I find it to be actually pretty factually accurate..


Interesting. I may only show my ignorance here, but I have never heard of such a thing. Would you be kind enough to share any evidence that what you are suggesting is or ever has been true.

This is what I found, before I pointed to what I saw as an inaccuracy: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_mining
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00461/stripm.htm
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Strip_mining

And I'm finding it difficult to see anything that would support your contention.

If anything - I would think the opposite of what you are suggesting might be a little more plausable. Strip mine to a depth where it wouldn't be practical to go deeper with open pits and continue to follow the vein of mineral deeper with tunnels. But I don't read that either.

Perhaps your were only kidding. Perhaps Steve was only kidding.  :Confused:

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## SincereCorgi

Yes, that lyrical inconsistency is enough to reveal what a worthless songwriter Steve Earle is. Moreover, according to this wikipedia entry – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Eagle_(MP_train) – Mr. Earle should have rightly referred to the section of the Texas Eagle that served Palestine and San Antonio as the _South_ Texas Eagle. The man's a fraud, plain and simple.

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## Fretbear

"Texas Eagle": "Every single word of this song is true."

"Yours Forever Blue": "Every other word in this song is not.  My Jimmy Martin impression." 

Steve Earle

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## AKmusic

> Yes, that lyrical inconsistency is enough to reveal what a worthless songwriter Steve Earle is. Moreover, according to this wikipedia entry  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Eagle_(MP_train)  Mr. Earle should have rightly referred to the section of the Texas Eagle that served Palestine and San Antonio as the _South_ Texas Eagle. The man's a fraud, plain and simple.


*Those are your words - not mine!* I never said the error made him a worthless songwriter. In fact I said quiet the opposite. 

"_My point in all of this is to say - I agree Steve Earl has written some good songs, and I can understand some saying they are great songs. But I will sound a different voice when he is proclaimed to be this great bluegrass singer, songwriter, musician. 

To me, he is just another successful folk songwriter/craftsman and recording artist - and good self promoter, and knows how to ride coat tails. Far from being sliced bread - jmo._ "

I wanted to go back and add "commercially successful." IMO - he has learned how to make his living it in the "protest" market place. And he has done well for himself. I agree with journeybear "I swear, I wish I had written a couple of songs that were so sloppily written that people were still talking about them decades later."

My point was to suggest he would do better at convincing me that he was more genuine in his desire to be a "voice for the underdog" if he would spend some time getting *simple facts* like this straight on the title cut of his album. I mean what if Neil Young had written "Four dead in Illinois"? It only serves to re-enforce my perception that he is just one more songwriter - interested in making a name for himself and making money. Not much more.

The Steve Earl fan club will see no wrong in the man - and I understand that.

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## Fretbear

"Outlaw's Honeymoon":  "I wrote this tune a couple of years ago for a great film called "Niagara, Niagara." Then the producers said they would have to have the publishing on the song and I told them to kiss my Texas ass. I recorded a solo version of it for "El Corazón" which sucked. It's finally found a home here on "The Mountain"."

Steve Earle

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## Dagger Gordon

AKmusic,

You obviously don't like him and you've made that pretty clear.

I've just listened to the new album while I was having my lunch, and I just think it's great.  It's not a question of seeing no wrong in the man - it's simply enjoying what I think is one of the best albums anyone has made for a long time.

And has anyone written a more tender love song than 'Every part of me' ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1H4...eature=related

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## high_lonesome_sound

Disclaimer:  I had never heard of Steve Earle before this thread.

Now I've watched the YouTubes, and read the lyrics and I kind of like him.  It seems to me that the thing about him that both annoys and enamors people is that Steve Earle is an Artist creating Art.   He's operating in the emotional realm, and thus will offend some (perhaps many) people.  

The political stuff can incite passions, I believe it is intended to, as part of the Artistic persona that seeks to incite passions.   

I could spend sentences showing that the lyrics in "The Mountain" make sense at both the logical/factual level and the artistic level, but you either like it or you don't.  Try parsing some Grateful Dead/Robert Hunter lyrics if you want a challenge to your logical brain!

So what do I think of Steve Earle?  Interesting and entertaining musician, glad to have been exposed to him, and I don't care if he passes some bluegrass litmus test or not.

HLS

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## Jim MacDaniel

Good post HLS - although I think some of the passions incited by Earle in this thread, is the fact that he dared to interlope into BG in the first place. This discussion reminds me a lot of other threads here referencing Jack White, another trad interloper, which similarly excited the passions of the OT police as well. What many of either musician's detractors failed to recognize, is how their respective genres ignited the passion of these musicians, which speaks volumes about the power of these genres in the first place. The fact that we are having these particular  discussions about these particular musicians in the first place says far more about the music than it does the artists who were inspired by these genres, IMHO.

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## journeybear

Very true. Musicians are inspired by all kinds of influences, and music is obviously a major one. One way a musician may express such inspiration is to explore genres new to him or outside her usual realm, possibly even writing songs in that style - in this case, an entire album's worth of songs, which he then recorded with one of the best bands in bluegrass. If that doesn't show an interest in the genre, I don't know what will.

This doesn't seem to me to be some effort to interlope, co-opt, subvert, or otherwise interfere with what else may have been going on in bluegrass at the time. I think he was interested in bluegrass at the time and the songs he was writing were influenced by that interest, so he put together a bluegrass album. One artist who has embraced this approach is Neil Young, who writes songs in a variety of styles and seems to collect them in albums that are stylistically cohesive, whether they be romantic, rock, or techno. I applaud such efforts - they show not only diversity but thematic continuity. 

I love bluegrass too, but I have expressed this love by writing only two songs in the genre in 45 years. He wrote _an entire album_. Impressive.

By the way, people, musicians, songwriters, singers, and the like are _artists_, not historians. Looking to them for factual accounts of events is a fool's game, and taking them to task for inaccuracies is the next step down. They are using imagery to _make a point,_ not report the news. Was Dylan recounting the facts of the case in "Hurricane" or "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll" or any similar songs? Was he "only interested in making a name for himself and making money" or did he see something wrong and rail against it in this way? Who knows where songwriters get their information or how much fact-checking they do before writing a song? Perhaps Steve Earle heard some people talking about strip-mining, or even talked to some folks from the area, and it made sense to him and he put what he learned this way into a song. Who knows? Who cares? It's art, not journalism. Different standards.

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## Fretbear

> Very true. Musicians are inspired by all kinds of influences, and music is obviously a major one. One way a musician may express such inspiration is to explore genres new to him or outside her usual realm, possibly even writing songs in that style - in this case, an entire album's worth of songs, which he then recorded with one of the best bands in bluegrass. If that doesn't show an interest in the genre, I don't know what will.
> This doesn't seem to me to be some effort to interlope, co-opt, subvert, or otherwise interfere with what else may have been going on in bluegrass at the time. I think he was interested in bluegrass at the time and the songs he was writing were influenced by that interest, so he put together a bluegrass album.


And despite how people might want to feel, anybody can do anything they like in any kind of music. The rub is when they suck at it, and then leave themselves open to being accused by fans and purists of "having no business playing that kind of music." Steve Earle certainly doesn't need me or anyone else defending anything that he does, but the fact is, even though they had their differences later, The Del McCoury Band willingly and with obvious pleasure, welcomed, recorded and toured Steve's "The Mountain" project. 
Del, Ronny, & Rob McCoury's (and Jason Carter and Mike Bub's) opinion of his talent and chops is self-explanatory in that decision alone, and nobody is going to convince me that they were in any way coerced into it. "Want to sing and play and tour with The Del McCoury band?" Of course...could you? 
Well that would depend on your talent and how they perceived you and your ability to fit in.

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## journeybear

Yep. And that's good enough for me. Unless, of course, they were offered such a huge sum of money they could not refuse it.  :Wink:  (Unlikely, methinks.)

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## Mike Bunting

> Very true. Musicians are inspired by all kinds of influences, and music is obviously a major one. One way a musician may express such inspiration is to explore genres new to him or outside her usual realm, possibly even writing songs in that style - in this case, an entire album's worth of songs, which he then recorded with one of the best bands in bluegrass. If that doesn't show an interest in the genre, I don't know what will.
> 
> This doesn't seem to me to be some effort to interlope, co-opt, subvert, or otherwise interfere with what else may have been going on in bluegrass at the time. I think he was interested in bluegrass at the time and the songs he was writing were influenced by that interest, so he put together a bluegrass album. One artist who has embraced this approach is Neil Young, who writes songs in a variety of styles and seems to collect them in albums that are stylistically cohesive, whether they be romantic, rock, or techno. I applaud such efforts - they show not only diversity but thematic continuity. 
> 
> I love bluegrass too, but I have expressed this love by writing only two songs in the genre in 45 years. He wrote _an entire album_. Impressive.
> 
> By the way, people, musicians, songwriters, singers, and the like are _artists_, not historians. Looking to them for factual accounts of events is a fool's game, and taking them to task for inaccuracies is the next step down. They are using imagery to _make a point,_ not report the news. Was Dylan recounting the facts of the case in "Hurricane" or "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll" or any similar songs? Was he "only interested in making a name for himself and making money" or did he see something wrong and rail against it in this way? Who knows where songwriters get their information or how much fact-checking they do before writing a song? Perhaps Steve Earle heard some people talking about strip-mining, or even talked to some folks from the area, and it made sense to him and he put what he learned this way into a song. Who knows? Who cares? It's art, not journalism. Different standards.


That expresses my feelings on the subject quite nicely, thanks.

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## catmandu2

> By the way, people, musicians, songwriters, singers, and the like are _artists_, not historians.


This is debatable.  I can think of many folks whose musical craft is more artefact than artistic.  But of course it depends on the definition of Art.  This is not a criticism--as there is value in historical preservation, obviously.  One thing that was articulated in the jack white discussion was the spectrum of expression: hard to come to consensus about what "sucks" and what doesn't, but I think it's efficacious, when assessing musical or artistic value, to understand that music too can range from historical reenactment to "high" art.

But I'm glad to see other aspects from the jack white discussion applied.

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## mandotrout777

> Interesting. I may only show my ignorance here, but I have never heard of such a thing. Would you be kind enough to share any evidence that what you are suggesting is or ever has been true.
> 
> This is what I found, before I pointed to what I saw as an inaccuracy: 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_mining
> http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00461/stripm.htm
> http://www.eoearth.org/article/Strip_mining
> 
> And I'm finding it difficult to see anything that would support your contention.
> ...


Well, this is just based on my memories as a kid, but take a look at recent aerial photos of the area around Rawl, West Virginia; mountaintop removal/strip mining central these days.  Back in the 70's when I was a kid, my grandfather and my uncle (and thousands of others) made good livings working in the deep mines in that area.  I have no idea what the proportion is of deep mines to strip mines there now, but I think the general idea that strip mining came after the deep mines is fairly accurate.  And I don't ever remember anybody talking about strip mines back then.

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## MikeEdgerton

I guess the guy that wrote the line "They roamed that old white mountain, just a little southeast of Nome" should have been tarred and feathered as well. It's called poetic license.

I'm a Steve Earle fan and a John Prine fan as well.

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## Steve Roberts

Steve Earle had three songs on Treme last night- two on guitar (Come Out Ye Black and Tans, and Hank's I'll Never Get out of this World Alive) with the tin whistle player from the Pogues.  Then he played the Galway Girl on his old Gibson mando.

Won't give away what happened next, but I don't think we will be seeing Steve on Treme again.  Too bad- he was great on the show.

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## AKmusic

Where is everyone getting this Steve Earl ought to be "tarred and feathered" - Steve Earl is a "worthless songwriter" business from any of the things that I said? *Simply amazing!!!*  I don't hate Steve Earl! But it is true, I am not a Steve Earl fan.

I don't care for his arrogant sometimes obnoxious attitude, I don't have a lot of respect for his self promotion, and I don't like his "electric" music - at all. And that makes it hard for me to be more objective about his work. I don't consider him to be part of the Bluegrass community, any more than Robert Plant is part of the bluegrass community because he recorded an album with Alison Krauss.

But I do agree - he has written some good songs (how many times have I said that now?) Here - let me add this, I especially like Pilgrim. I first heard it at a time when we lost a good musican friend - and I could hear Ken singing that back to us at his memorial.

So quit putting words in my mouth. 

Mike, in a way, you kinda summed up my point though. I can see where you might equate Steve Earl's song writing with Johnny Horton. He wrote a few memoriable songs that were good. Now, I don't play any Johnny Horton songs, and I have played some of Steve Earl's songs. So maybe I like Steve's work a little better. 

Never said I didn't like John Prine. As I said earlier - I play some of his songs too. I'm not a huge fan, but I certainly like his work.

As a songwriter, an artist, and as a person - I admire Guy Clark much more than Steve.  And I play some of his songs too.

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## journeybear

I don't know what all the fuss and bother is about. I really don't. But please spell his name right. Thanks!

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## AKmusic

> I don't know what all the fuss and bother is about. I really don't. But please spell his name right. Thanks!


 :Disbelief:   :Laughing:   :Redface: 

_Priceless!!!_ Thank you! ...I will next time.

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## journeybear

Please! No next time! Make it stop!!! *AAAHHH!!!*  :Crying:   :Disbelief:   :Crying:   :Disbelief:   :Sleepy:

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## mandolirius

The CBC did a good, long-form interview with Steve recently. If you go to cbc.ca/q  it should be there.

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## Marty Henrickson

Not the beggest Steve Earle fan, but there's a pretty good interview in the current issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine.

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## Fretbear

http://www.acousticguitar.com/articl...rticleid=26842

On recording "I'll Never Get Out of of This World Alive" with T Bone Burnett and state-of-the-art digital sound quality (they didn't start re-pressing 18-gram vinyl lately just out of boredom, but because some people with ears had tired of the sonic rip-off that lots of digital music has become) :

How else was T Bone’s process different?
EARLE: T Bone’s process is an ongoing process. He’s there for the whole thing. He (mess)ed with the record a lot longer than I did. He kept mixing. We finished the mixes, and I thought we were done. A few weeks later, I suddenly got these new mixes that had been changed. It kind of freaked me out at first, but they were better. He even remastered it a couple of times. And then there’s the Code thing.

What’s that?
EARLE: T Bone is very much involved in the idea that we need a higher standard for digital reproduction. Code is a 24/96 format [24 bit/96 kHz]. In the deluxe version of I’ll Never Get Out of This World Alive, there’ll be the standard CD plus a DVD, which has a mini-documentary about the making of the record. On that DVD disc will also be the Code version—an optimally modulated, high-resolution, digital version of the record. It has to be played on a DVD player, but you will hear a difference.

I owned a recording studio for a long time, and I’ve produced a lot of records, but I didn’t get what T Bone was talking about at first. I thought, “Great that it sounds better, but what difference does it make if we’re going to CDs?” [CD standard format is 16 bit/44.1 kHz.] But when I heard the first playback, it was stunning. Now I know what they’re talking about. Their records sound better than everybody else’s—a whole ####load better than any of the records that I’ve made up to now.

Who do you mean when you say “their” records?
EARLE: T Bone—with engineers Mike Piersante and Jason Wormer.

You mentioned the record had been mastered more than once. Why?
EARLE: T Bone just wasn’t happy. I trust him. I learned a lot about who he is and what he does. A lot of stuff that I would’ve dismissed before, I don’t anymore. I drank the Kool-Aid.

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## northfolk

> I think he is great;  I have been listening to him for years.   I will be seeing him in person, for the first time I might add,  July 22nd at The Big Top Chautauqua, near the shores of Lake Superior.


Well as planned, I went to see Steve Earle.  What a fantastic performance!  Aside from an occasional 
f-bomb and some Liberal political babble, a great time was had from start to finish.  Great music, an impressive collection of instruments, the Dukes and Duchesses, the two encores, the three hour show, the meet and greet autograph session after the show, it was all good!  I can't wait to see him again.   :Coffee:  :Mandosmiley:

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## Mike Bunting

> some Liberal political babble,


/:-(

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## Paul Kotapish

JoAnn Mar did a nice, two-hour long interview with Steve Earle today on her _Folk Music & Beyond_ radio program on KALW in San Francisco.

The archived full show with songs, commentary, and more is available for streaming online at: http://www.kalw.org/music.html#

Just click on the _Folk Music & Beyond_ link and it should launch automatically. 

To see the full playlist from the show, go to: http://www.kalwfolk.org and follow the links to today's playlist.

KALW is a treasure. Trad music of all sorts--much of it live in the studio--all afternoon on Saturday, plus loads of original programming all week long.

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## Kbone

I love some of the clips of him w/ Del & the boys, great singer/songwriter IMO.

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## journeybear

Just saw him last night on a repeat of Austin City Limits, split between him and Kris Kristofferson. This was from his recent tour behind his album of all Tones Van Zandt songs. Spellbinding. I was going to watch something else, but I happened by and couldn't turn away, even though I have seen this before and it's in the archives. He really has got a way about him.

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## Levinbravo

No offense, AK...I certainly respect (but do not share) your opinion of Steve Earle.

But your obvious lack of knowledge on the current debates surrounding the coal industry's impacts on my beloved mountains SHOULD have prevented you from trying to use the lyrics of that song as evidence that Mr. Earle is "fulla s**t".

And let's call it what it is, shall we. It's not "surface mining" or "strip mining"...its "MOUNTAINTOP REMOVAL". 

Its greed-induced rape.

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## Levinbravo

I would suggest that anyone who's interested in educating themselves on this and other issues watch the PBS documentary "Appalachia: A History of Mountains and People".

And then Google "mountaintop removal".

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## mandopete

Thread lockdown in 3...2...1

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## journeybear

Yeah, bound to happen. Somehow Steve Earle gets people riled up, whether they agree or disagree with him. It has been pointed out before that he is a musician and songwriter, not necessarily a political or environmental or socioeconomic analyst, and as such his writing should not be held to the same standard. Nor should it be expected to. His predecessors in social commentary, such as Guthrie and Dylan, and if you want to include Shakespeare and Chaucer and Ovid feel free, were also more artists than analysts. People writing songs about issues such as these try to get the story right, but don't look to them for an in-depth analysis of all the interrelating factors of complex matters. They are probably more concerned with rhyme, meter, and an elegant turn of phrase.

But that's just them; what do they know? Shame on Earle, Dylan, Guthrie, and their ilk for being so lax and lackadaisical. They are mere mortals with petty concerns and limited skills, after all, and the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, is elusive and unknowable. Now, when *I* write a song, if it is issue-driven and thus about something real, tangible, and verifiable, you bet I research every aspect so I know everything about all facets and factors of it before I even set pen to paper or fingers to keyboard. When done, before I present it as finished and ready to be performed, you can be sure I have checked and double-checked and triple-checked every word and phrase for accuracy, using the most reliable reference resources available, so people listening to my song will understand what I'm talking about with no possibility of misunderstanding or misinterpretation. Of course I do. Doesn't every songwriter?

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## Steve Ostrander

It matters not one iota to me what Steve Earle's political views, personality, or BG authenticity is. I just like his music. Of course, I'm a shameless Philistine.

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## Jim MacDaniel

I'm with you there Steve, although I do appreciate his views and get a kick out of his personality. (Of course, I'm a recovering Philistine myself  :Wink:  )

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## AKmusic

Steve Earle, spelt with an "e".  _There, I said it._

Levinbravo - welcome to the group of those who ignore the points that I made, tell me (and others) that I said something - _that I didn't say_. Why? All because I don't share your infatuation with Steve Earle.

Yes, journeybear - that is correct. You would do well, for you and for your social "cause", if you were going to write and record the title cut of your album and have the subject matter be the exposure of such evil in this world - then it might make your "protest" a little more plausible to not confuse strip mining with underground mining. I don't think it would have required much (if any) research - and that is my point of view. You can continue to define his lack of knowledge or effort if you like, that's your privledge. I have moved on past this - Steve Earle's mistake isn't that important to me, and it surely is not the sole reason I don't care for Steve Earle. Why did you feel it was necessary to drag it back up?

And before anyone says that I must love and support the coal mining industry because I don't care for Steve Earle - let me put everyone on notice: This has nothing at all to do with any views I have about _any_ industry doing _any_ thing. (I will not take your bait.) I have merely attempted to answer the simple question that was asked: "What do you think of Steve Earle?"

And my answer to that question has nothing to do with "His predecessors in social commentary, such as Guthrie and Dylan, and if you want to include Shakespeare and Chaucer and Ovid feel free, were also more artists than analysts."

Goodness. Steve Earle should certainly be proud that he has such staunch defenders of his "honor". 

I'll say this *AGAIN*:

I don't hate Steve Earl! (never said I did) But it is true, I am not a Steve Earl fan.

I don't care for his arrogant sometimes obnoxious attitude, I don't have a lot of respect for his self promotion, and I don't like his "electric" music - at all. And that makes it hard for me to be more objective about his work. I don't consider him to be part of the Bluegrass community, 

But I do agree - he has written some good songs (*how many times have I said that now*?)

You guys are amazing!!! Why does my opinion bother you this much?

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## catmandu2

> Why does my opinion bother you this much?


Welcome to Cafe AKmusic!   :Wink:

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## Ed Goist

Steve Earle and Chris Thile walk into a bar...
Thile has his Loar, while Earle has a _The Loar_...
They toss their Blue Chip and Wegen picks on the bar, remove the ToneRite play-in devices from their mandolins, and ask bartender Jack White for a drink...
Discuss.

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## Jim MacDaniel

AK: speaking for myself, I have interpreted your posts as soley being influenced by your views on Steve Earle and his music, and have not inferred from your posts any position on the mining industry or big business in general, pro or con.

That said, I hope we can now move on and get the Steve Earle Apprectiation Society back on track without further dissenting opinions.  :Wink:

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## catmandu2

> Steve Earle and Chris Thile walk into a bar...
> Thile has his Loar, while Earle has a _The Loar_...
> They toss their Blue Chip and Wegen picks on the bar, remove the ToneRite play-in devices from their mandolins, and ask bartender Jack White for a drink...
> Discuss.


Too funny Ed!

But we just did this exercise: Del McCoury meets Preservation Hall Jazz Band

I'm sure a "scientific" screed will be forthcoming from JB in no time..

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## Jim MacDaniel

lol

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## journeybear

> ... Why did you feel it was necessary to drag it back up?


I wasn't. In fact, I was trying to get people to _stop_ revisiting old, belabored points.




> ... I have merely attempted to answer the simple question that was asked: "What do you think of Steve Earle?"


I totally get that.




> ... Why does my opinion bother you this much?


It doesn't. In fact, my post was not directed at you. I don't see why you think it was.  :Confused:  If anything, I was objecting to someone objecting to your postings, so ... huh?  :Disbelief:  But then again, as I have mentioned, again and again, repeatedly, in a repetitive way - misunderstanding or misinterpretation seems to come with the territory.

Which reminds me - I mentioned the authors I did not as Mr. Earle's _peers,_ but _predecessors._ I am not ready to rank him at anywhere near the same level, not until I have paid more attention to his work - except perhaps Ovid, but I would need to read more of him too. Nor would I characterize myself as a "staunch defender of his "honor.'" I like his music OK, a couple of songs in particular, and as I mentioned the other day I thought he did a great job on that ACL appearance, but I would not call myself a fan. My main objection all along is people getting all riled up about non-musical aspects of his persona or work.

Dang! Lighten up, people!

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## barney 59

Just to clear up a point. The old man from "The Mountain" spent years deep mining his mountain. Later the mountain was surfaced mined. This is not an uncommon event. Deep mining is labor intensive and economically costly,sometimes coal formations are too thin to be effectively mined by deep mining. In the areas where this happens there is a large reduction of work force(- 60% in some areas) and the environmental consequences are, well, controversial and probably a no go on this forum,but not in the song.

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## Paul Kotapish

AK,

I suspect some of the ire you are perceive from your fellow posters is the result of you suggesting (if I am reading your posts correctly) that you are more-or-less neutral on Steve Earle and then going on to give fairly detailed examples of his shortcomings as a musician, songwriter, and thinker. That suggests that you actually have a fairly strong negative opinion. That's how I read your posts, anyway. I'm not saying that's what you intended with your posts--just how they come across to this reader.

I have no dog in this fight. I like Steve Earle and his music, but I completely understand why other folks might not dig him for a variety of musical or philosophical reasons.

As for the seeming inconsistencies in the coal-mining song, it's worth noting that West Virginia coal mining includes both surface and subsurface mines, and that both have had some serious environmental, social, and economic impacts (both good and bad) on the state. The fact that the first verse references mountain-top removal doesn't obviate the validity of a reference to subsurface mining a few verses later. 



In respect to Earle's short-but-fruitful collaboration with Del McCoury and the boys, I don't think Earle was trying to convince anyone that he was a bluegrass musician and more than Paul Simon was trying to convince anyone that he was a master of Mbaqanga on _Graceland_ or Ry Cooder was pretending to be a Cuban musician on _Buena Vista Social Club_  or Johnny Cash had taken up the punk banner on _Hurt_ (despite the interesting argument that Cash was, in fact, the original Punk). Earle clearly loves the music and clearly loved the Del McCoury band, but I don't think he was trying to fool anyone. I was an editor at _Acoustic Guitar_ when Scott Nygaard wrote the cover story and did interviews with all the participants in _The Mountain_, and it was clear that everyone involved thought it was an interesting, honest experiment, not some attempt by Earle to jump on some kind of bandwagon. 

Looking forward to seeing the new season of _Treme_. Earle is one of many highlights for me in that extraordinary show.

Regards,
PK

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## journeybear

Thanks Paul. More than I ever thought I would need to know about the subject, but a nice bit of learning to brighten up my day. I don't think the illustration is meant to imply that all methods of mining would be used on the same mountain, but is rather a visual shorthand to demontrate how and where each method is used. Perhaps they can coexist - I don't know - but not, apparently, in the situation described in the song.

Now, if we're going to continue an analytical approach to this subject, let's look at the lyrics:

_I was born on this mountain a long time ago 
Before they knocked down the timber and strip-mined the coal 
When you rose in the mornin' before it was light 
To go down in that dark hole and come back up at night 

I was born on this mountain, this mountain's my home 
She holds me and keeps me from worry and woe 
Well, they took everything that she gave, now they're gone 
But I'll die on this mountain, this mountain's my home 

I was young on this mountain but now I am old 
And I knew every holler, every cool swimmin' hole 
‘Til one night I lay down and woke up to find 
That my childhood was over and I went down in the mine 

There's a hole in this mountain and it's dark and it's deep 
And God only knows all the secrets it keeps 
There's a chill in the air only miners can feel 
There're ghosts in the tunnels that the company sealed_ 

It looks like he is saying that everything was more or less fine while they were mining via the tunneling methods. But the company changed to strip-mining as mentioned in the first verse, and sealed the tunnels - the pre-existing tunnels, that is - as mentioned in the last verse - and then "took everything that she (the mountain) gave" and left, as mentioned in the second verse, leaving the miners, who presumably may have been working there for generations, without jobs nor, presumably, training for other jobs. This surely left a lot of resentment among these people, for whom the mountain was their home as well as livelihood.

Now, I hate to bring this up, because as I just explained, I did not have an issue with you, AK, but when I looked back to see how this whole discussion of mining started, I found this, from over a month ago:




> There may be an explanation that I'm missing - but when you strip-mine coal, there are no tunnels that the company can seal. I find it curious that he speaks with a view that would include such inaccuracies. Hints at something about his knowledge of the facts.
> .


So after looking at all that has been said since, and especially the last two posts, I think it's fair to say that you misread or misheard the lyrics. It's an honest mistake, and one that you don't deserve being - pardon the expression - raked over the coals for. The song ends with the line about the company sealing the tunnels, but that event happened earlier, even though it's mentioned in the last verse. That is, the time frames of the song and the events it describes are differerent. After all, the narrator's childhood is mentioned in the _third_ verse. Ending the song with that last line is poetry, not reportage. So is the whole song, really. In other words, based on my limited knowledge of the subject, I think he got the facts right, but I can see how a casual listen could be misleading.

BTW, this song should not be taken literally, even if it is written in the first person. After all, Steve Earle is from Texas, not the coal-mining country described. For that matter, I don't know how much of John Prine's "Paradise" was based on his personal memories. (Nor do I need to know, thanks all the same.) Writing songs in the first person is a device used to personalize the subject matter, and is a tradition among folksingers. A famous modern example is Joan Baez singing "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down," still in the male narrator's voice.

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## Paul Kotapish

[QUOTE=journeybear;951086]I don't think the illustration is meant to imply that all methods of mining would be used on the same mountain, but is rather a visual shorthand to demontrate how and where each method is used. Perhaps they can coexist - I don't know - but not, apparently, in the situation described in the song.QUOTE]

Yes--the illustration is just a compressed view of common methods. They almost certainly wouldn't be used adjacently in most circumstances, but who knows?

Earle's song was using some poetic license regarding circumstances in coal-mining country--an environment in which both both forms of mining would have impact. And at some level, all the imagery is metaphorical anyway, and doesn't necessarily need to be consistent.

It's a song, for Pete's sake, not a engineering journal article.

BTW, there's an interesting article on songwriting by Adam Levy called "Balancing Fact and Fiction" in the current _Acoustic Guitar_ in which he discusses the value of taking poetic license in compositions based on one's own life and personal experiences. In most cases, he argues, a bit of distortion or fantasy improves the universality of the song. Lyrics the hew too closely to one's personal life are often just plain tedious.

Check it out: http://www.acguitar.com/article/Defa...rticleID=26826

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## catmandu2

> Now, I hate to bring this up, because as I just explained, I did not have an issue with you, AK, but when I looked back to see how this whole discussion of mining started, I found this, from over a month ago:


journeybear, I don't think you want to go down that road (pointing out inconsistencies from old threads).





> Dang! Lighten up, people!


d'oh!

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## journeybear

> ...  the value of taking poetic license in compositions based on one's own life and personal experiences. In most cases, he argues, a bit of distortion or fantasy improves the universality of the song. Lyrics the hew too closely to one's personal life are often just plain tedious.


True enough. And also, some of the things that get written about in songs would be darn hard and even dangerous to live through. As Hank Jr. wrote in "Family Tradition," "Why must you live out the songs that you wrote?" So even going _that_ way in this area could well be inadvisable.  :Wink:

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## AKmusic

Jouneybear – Though, in fact, your reply was not directly addressed to me, your reply did speak in a way that addressed the opinions I had expressed which seemed to be an attempt to deride them. So, in that manner you were speaking to me. And in my reading of it, I only heard sarcasms that seemed to be heaped upon earlier remarks – it added nothing new, imo. BUT – if you are saying that I have misread your comments and misunderstood your intent, then I regret that I was not able to see those qualities. I agree – let’s lighten up… and go on. I am not your enemy – or anyone elses. 

The chart Paul offers only illustrates the different methods used for mining, and not that all these methods are used at the same mine site. But I do admit, it is entirely possible that there could have been an occasion where strip mining and underground mining were both employed at the same mine sight. I say that because I am not an expert on such matters, and I certainly don’t know the history behind every coal mine site. But I am a little familiar with strip mining (I worked at one for a little over a year). But I did look - and I did not find a single location with a search on the internet. I would appreciate knowing where that is the case, and I would love to hear Steve chastise me for my ignorance.

I would also submit – that the record does show that underground mining is a much more dangerous and costly method of mining and certainly does have a longer history. And, that strip mining is a cheaper, safer, more modern method – environmental issues aside (though certainly important). It seems unlikely that strip mining and underground would be employed at the same site. Especially if the order of mining methods meant strip mining and then underground – for very obvious reasons.

I intend for this to be _my last comment on this particular matter_. My opinion of Steve Earle and his work does not stand or fall on the words he has written in any one song. My opinion of Steve is not right - nor is it wrong, it is my opinion. I used this perceived inaccuracy as an example of why I discount some of what he does as a spokesperson on social issues. imo, he does want folks to recognize that about him. I don’t doubt that there is sincerity in what he does, but the focus of his life does not say Woody Guthrie. And then again, Bob Dylan denied that his wrote with a desire to be known as a social activist.

And still – I agree - Steve Earle has written some good songs. I play a few. I even listened to him on ASL the other night and thought he did well. He was more “tame” and sensible – seemed to me – than what I have seen in the past.

Now, let’s find a reason to lift our mugs together…

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## AKmusic

> So after looking at all that has been said since, and especially the last two posts, I think it's fair to say that you misread or misheard the lyrics. It's an honest mistake, .


...no mistake. It is what I read. Perhaps I read it with a different bias than you. ...that's ok. I see the good in your desire for Steve to be right. I'm saying - on the facts - I think Steve was wrong. You can excuse it as poetic license or not - but, imo, he wrote with an intent for it to be more than just poetry. imo, he was using poetry or songwriting as a tool to make a social statement. I can appreciate that - it is proper and completely acceptable. But how much weight should you be giving to the accuracy of your facts if that is what you are trying to do? 

Ok. Maybe - he wasn't trying to speak about a social or envirnonment issue... If not, then what?

added:
Paul said: _Earle's song was using some poetic license regarding circumstances in coal-mining country--an environment in which both both forms of mining would have impact. And at some level, all the imagery is metaphorical anyway, and doesn't necessarily need to be consistent.

It's a song, for Pete's sake, not a engineering journal article._

Paul you are absolutely correct. And much more has been made of this than was needed. I didn't really think it would become such an issue when I mentioned it. If you go back - you can read that I said it almost in passing - as a curious thing I had noticed. I was questioned and so I expounded on what I was pointing to and why. I'm not sure why I felt the need to defend my comments. I guess I kept thinking "well, this will settle the matter, this will make it ok" - My mistake.

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## journeybear

Sorry. My interpretation - or misinterpretation - of what you said. Should have been more specific. After all, that is at the heart of what I have been yakking about lately.  :Redface:  Should use phrases like "I think" or "I believe" or "it seems to me" more often. Anyway ... It seems to me that Mr. Earle didn't specify whether or not strip mining and tunnel mining were going on at the same time. But I think the way these things usually go is the company closes the tunnels when they change over to strip mining. This isn't necessarily the case, of course, but I believe what the song was intended was to portray the loss of a lifestyle due to a change in the company's mining practices, with disregard for the effect this had on the miners.

Whew!

BTW, what I meant by poetic license in this instance was the rearrangement of actual chronology to suit the song's chronology.

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## Jim MacDaniel

:Popcorn:  <standing by for more last comments  :Wink:  >

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## Dagger Gordon

Can we move on from talking about one song (The Mountain)?

Anyone else like the new album?

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## catmandu2

> <standing by for more last comments  >


 :Laughing:

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## journeybear

Is there a _new album?_  :Confused:  Have we been going on and on and on for _that_ long?  :Disbelief: 

Oh ...




> Been listening to the new CD 'I'll never get out of this world alive'.  
> 
> Absolutely great in my view. Love his singing, the songs, the production by T Bone Burnett - it's just great.


I see ... _that_ new album ... OK ...  :Whistling:

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## barney 59

That Steve Earle sure is bunk! The Galway Girls hair was gold and her eyes were green, I wish he could keep his facts straight!--- --or was that the Tennessee Stud?--ah never mind!

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## Fretbear

And with an interminable case of GAS........
Matt and him both paid a hundred and a half for their pre-war Martin Dreads....back in the day....

http://www.vintageguitar.com/3825/steve-earle/

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## catmandu2

> And with an interminable case of GAS........
> Matt and him both paid a hundred and a half for their pre-war Martin Dreads....back in the day....
> 
> http://www.vintageguitar.com/3825/steve-earle/


Wow, what a great guitar piece.  That 0-17 sounds like it must be really something.

I remember an interview with Laurindo Almeida who said he'd accumulated quite a number of guitars, but sold them all and simply posseses one Takamine E-9.  That inspired me to quit gassing.

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## Psyberbilly

> Steve Earle and Chris Thile walk into a bar...
> Thile has his Loar, while Earle has a _The Loar_...
> They toss their Blue Chip and Wegen picks on the bar, remove the ToneRite play-in devices from their mandolins, and ask bartender Jack White for a drink...
> Discuss.


Now THAT'S funny ! First time I have witnessed someone cast oil on the water and stir the pot in the same post. Good job!!

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## mandopete

Wow, I would have thought this thread would get locked down days ago - congratulations everyone!

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## Jim MacDaniel

> That Steve Earle sure is bunk! The Galway Girls hair was gold and her eyes were green, I wish he could keep his facts straight!...


Nicely done Barney: you've possibly opened this thread up to a lengthy debate on the origins of Galway's _Black Irish_.  :Wink:

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## Alex Orr

Wow!  This thread is massive  :Disbelief: 

Just to chip in...

I think the run of albums that Earle did from the time he got out of jail through _Transcendental Blues_ is one of the most remarkable strings of kick-ass albums in popular music history.  In some ways, that string of albums represents the exact music I would make if I had the talent and creativity.  It's a perfect blend of rock, country, and bluegrass combined with terrific songwriting.  I love the rock songs, I love the ballads, and I think his bluegrass songs are about the best original contemporary bluegrass songs I've heard in the last twenty years.  Earle saw no boundaries between the various "Americana" or "roots music" genres, and he worked them all so well, not caring if the rock fans hated the country stuff or if the country and bluegrass police denounced him for being a rocker intruding on their turf.  He beat them all at their own game by simply producing impeccable music.  As someone who grew up on punk and indie bands only to later fall under the sway of bluegrass and classic country, that totally appealed to me at the time and still does today.  Those albums are still some of my absolute favs, and there are very, very few weak songs to be found anywhere during that time.  In my mind, Earle was untouchable during the '90s.  

However, ever since _Jerusalem_, it's been a mix of unremarkable songs and just plain bad songs.  I'm probably not as far left as Earle, but we basically share the same political mindset, but even with that being said, his political songs have just been lousy IMO.  That's not too surprising though - I think most political songs just don't work very well, and the more contemporary, specific, and earnest they are, the worse they sound.  It's worth pointing out that during the '90s, his music was almost entirely devoid of overt political songs with the exception of "Christmas Time in Washington", which was something of a "pox on both their houses" song, though admittedly one that yearned for the return of reformers who are more lionized on the left.  Even when he's not writing lame political songs, his muse seems to have left him.  His non-political originals have sounded uninspired and his covers have come off as terribly flat.  I had high hopes for the Townes record, but I though his singing was overly-affected and I didn't care for the sound of the record.  There was something really cool about the sound of his '90s albums - the production really served that music well, but his stuff since then just doesn't seem to be the right sound for Earle.  The lowest point was when he did _Washington Square_ and attempted to add a bunch of hip-hop and electronic elements to his roots sound.  The songwriting on that album was particularly weak, and the electronic beats only made it sound worse.

About eight years ago a good friend of mine was out in Central Park and literally bumped into Earle.  They talked for about ten minutes and my buddy asked him if he was working on anything.  Earle told him he might be done recording, perhaps for good.  He said he felt that he'd run out of ideas for songs and was more interested in writing a novel and was more excited about the music his son was writing.  That was eight years ago and I can't help feeling like Earle was right about not having anything to say musically even if he ended up putting out several more albums since then.

In terms of the personal stuff, well, I really don't care.  I think he made a lot of mistakes for a long time and has been doing his best to live a different life for quite a while now.  Most of the musicians I like are hardly saints and I swear like a sailor myself.  I briefly played in a punk covers band in college and most of the songs we loved to cover were by people who we would probably have hated had we met them at the peak of their artistic and debauched prime.  I doubt Johnny Ramone, Kurt Cobain, Johnny Thunders, Iggy Pop, Mick Jones, or Paul Westerberg would have probably even liked us that much.  Heck even in the country world many of my favorite artists were somewhat deplorable people.  Hank Williams was a drunk, drug addled psychopath.  Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, George Jones, Ira Louvin, Carter Stanley, Scotty Stoneman, Bob Wills, and Lefty Frizell (just to name a few) all had reputations as boozers who could also be pretty horrible people if you caught them at the wrong time, but that doesn't mean I choose to denounce or stay away from the brilliant music they all created.

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## Fretbear

I was also unimpressed by listening to the "Townes" project until I watched him perform it on Austin City Limits. I immediately became intrigued enough by that performance to learn both "Pancho & Lefty" and "Colorado Girl" within the week. I got where he was coming from with them only after seeing him perform them live, and also understood better his well-known admiration for Townes Van Zandt, even if I still don't agree with him that TVZ was a better songwriter than Bob Dylan.

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## spaceyben

one of the greats.... I listen to him and his son both a lot.

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## Dave Greenspoon

I think that he and Alison have a warped sense of humor naming their son John Henry.  Townes I totally got.  John Henry?  Well, I hope the boy stays away from hammers and steeldriving!

Musically?  I love him, especially his lyrics. They're nearly always raw, powerful, and honest without a doubt.  He was amazing at Grey Fox at the last (or next-to-last) year at the old site in Ancramdale.

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## catmandu2

Hey, thanks for the sobering view Alex.  Kinda humorous.  I imagine being in a room with folks like Jim Morrison, John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Harry Nilsson, Brian Wilson, Lou Reed, James Brown, Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, Mingus, Miles...  I wonder if we would come to a consensus on, "what is the sound of classic bluegrass?"

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## cottonwolf

> A friend of mine who is a gifted guitarist once told me that guitarists with basic but "hooky" technique (guys whose songs/riffs one can learn in a few minutes) are always more influential that technical wizards on the instrument (guys whose technique is intimidating).
> He would say that Kurt Cobain got a lot more kids to pick-up a guitar than Al DiMeola did.
> I find this premise hard to refute.


Agree. John Fogerty has nowhere near the technical abilities of many of the technical wizards on guitar, but he has the hooks. Sometimes less is more.

Going to see Steve Earle in a couple weeks. Going to miss a NCSU football game for it, which I have never done!

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## Jeff Laster

Thats kewl. I like some Earle.

I did not know about the Weber Mandola.

Jeff laster
www.monticellodrive.com
Weber Outlaw Res
Weber Gallatin Mandolin
Weber YellowStone ArchTop Guitar
Weber Gallatin Mandocello

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## Mandolin-Tele

> Fabulous songwriter, one of my favorites. I especially like "Train a Comin" and "The Mountain" with Del McCoury. He is a very competent guitar and mandolin player. Our trio covers sevral of his songs, and you know what they say about imitation.


Thanks never heard this song 

The Mountain Steve Earle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kQ6mp_a5XA

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