# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  How to replace a songbook with an iPad, need to auto-scroll...

## Rob Meldrum

My band has a lot of songs we like to play, and I am looking for an iPad app that will display each song, and then scroll through it (think of "Sing Along With Mitch" if you're old enough...).  My detailed situation is listed below.  Does anyone know of an app that will do this?

1. Each song is written up in a text editor (NotePad on a MSFT computer).  Chords are embedded with square brackets.  Example: to have an A minor chord display over the word "crying", I would key in "cry[Am]ing".
2. Load the text file into this website: http://davetaflin.no-ip.org/chord2pdf.html  This creates a nice PDF file that can be printed and saved.  We save the completed PDF files in a shared DropBox folder for easy access.  Each song has the full lyrics with the chord changes above the lyrics in the appropriate places.
3. I would like to set up a playlist so that the songs play in that order on the iPad.  For songs that take up more than one screen I would like the screen to slowly scroll, like a teleprompter, through each song.  
4.  Ideally the app would provide the flexibility to set different scrolling speeds for each song.  

I've been trying to find an inexpensive app for this but I haven't had any luck.  Do you all have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Rob

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## foldedpath

I don't know if this will fit your needs, but I've been using the GigBook app:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/deepd...373676401?mt=8

My usage is a little different from yours. I mainly use it as a set list reference, with notes on key signature and arrangement details. Just a few tunes have full chord charts that I create myself using openoffice Writer's PDF export function, and I don't use it for lyrics. GigBook is designed mainly for direct PDF import, although you can make internal listings and notes for tunes without a PDF attached. It should import any PDF you create from another program.

GigBook works well for what it does. It has the essential feature of locking out the iPad's sleep function when the app is running, in case you forget to set that. Whatever app you use for this, make sure it has that feature. Nothing worse than having your screen go black in the middle of a song when you're reading a chart or lyrics!

GigBook doesn't auto-scroll, but I think it supports bluetooth pedals for page turning. That sounds more practical to use during a performance. I can imagine band trainwrecks if the iPad auto-scrolled too slow or too fast, and wasn't matching where the band was in the song.

There are other apps out there, and some may be more suited to what you want to do. You might want to check out this Songbook Chordbook Pro app (I haven't tried it):

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/songb...392888837?mt=8

You'll probably get other recommendations here. 

One final note about this, which you may have already considered. Like reading lyrics or chords off sheet music at a gig, this is something that can create a barrier between you and the audience. I try to keep my iPad on its mic stand mount off to the side, and at a fairly low level. I just glance at every now and then, more as a reminder than something I constantly stare at, during a gig. If this is just for band rehearsal, that's one thing. But for a performance, don't let cool technology like this get in the way of relating to your audience, or interacting with your other band members.

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## Mike Bunting

Setlist is another useful ipad app, although I'm using Gigbook a lot now since their latest upgrades. I wouldn't go on stage if I needed anything more than a setlist.

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## robertr

Take a good look at OnSong. It is an amazing and versatile program, that can easily replace all your notebooks of song lists, sets, lyrics and chords. I love it. Check it out, as it can even transpose your songs into any key on the fly, and display or share your songs however you like.

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## allenhopkins

> ...I wouldn't go on stage if I needed anything more than a setlist.


This is the question that popped immediately into my head when I read the first post.  I've been blessed (cursed?) with a freak memory for song lyrics, so much so that my fellow musicians sometimes act like I know _every_ song -- which I surely *don't.*

But I'd be a bit "underwhelmed" by a band which had to read lyrics and chords for its repertoire, off some variant of the Tele-Prompter.  One of my good friends plays in a quite competent bluegrass quartet, but nearly every one of their performances finds them grouped around a music stand, on which resides a big three-ring notebook of lyrics and chords.  I guess replacing that with an iBook would make for a somewhat "cleaner" onstage look, but it doesn't seem like a substitute for _learning_ the songs so that they can be performed without prompting.

Don't want to sound snobbish, but perhaps discarding this "musical crutch," might be better than searching for the ideal app to continue using it...?

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Gerard Dick, 

Mandoplumb, 

stevedenver

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## foldedpath

> Don't want to sound snobbish, but perhaps discarding this "musical crutch," might be better than searching for the ideal app to continue using it...?


Agreed, and that's why I added the cautionary note in the last paragraph of my post. I think something like this can substitute for the dog-eared, beer stained paper set list on the floor, but using it for lyrics or chords throughout the set isn't very professional. 

For me, the big advantage (vs. the dog-eared paper version) is being able to create a set list with annotations like this, as a quick-glance reference:

http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/083/...480x480-75.jpg

I did a few gigs last year where I was a temporary side man playing mandolin and Dobro for a guitarist/singer duo. They had a habit of throwing new songs at me with less than a week's notice and one rehearsal (if that), before the gig. For last-minute additions like that, having the info on GigPad was great. If you drop a song from the set list, and pull it back in for a later gig, all the info is right there. But yeah, don't abuse it.

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DougC

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## Rob Meldrum

Thanks for the great feedback, all.  Our band is a group of boat club members, and our public performances to date have been limited to club functions.  The three of us who do most of the singing have not memorized the lyrics to the songs we play, so we all rely on our notebooks.  I have noticed in our last two performances that staring at our notebooks does create an unwelcome barrier between us and the audience, so I will see if we can memorize our "ready for prime time" pieces.  Your comments in that area are spot-on.

We all have day jobs and play for love, not money.  In fact we have turned down opportunities to play real paying gigs because we value the time with our respective spouses more than the cash we would make.  Six of the seven of us are married and none of our spouses are in the band, so we have carved out three hours every Saturday morning to play together.  It's the highlight of the week for most of us.  Which is a long-winded excuse for not memorizing our songs... :-). 

Thanks again for the great feedback - this is a great site.

Rob

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## CES

> It's the highlight of the week for most of us.  Which is a long-winded excuse for not memorizing our songs... :-). 
> 
> Thanks again for the great feedback - this is a great site.
> 
> Rob


I hear ya, man...I agree with Alan and FP that your performance will suffer if you're focusing on the sheet music rather than interacting with the audience, but I suffer from CRCL disease, and the symptoms tend to be heightened in higher anxiety situations (ie, performance)..."Can't Remember Chords and Lyrics."  I tend to need the lead sheets as a prompt...once going I'm usually OK.

I have a friend who's an excellent guitar picker who does solo work around town a lot.  He puts on a great show, but he has CRCL disease as well, and used to have his wife sit on the front row with index cards with lyrics on them for the second/third verses of songs.  I doubt anyone noticed given the venues he was playing in.  I remember one night at a friend's house he and I were playing and there were maybe 10 other folks singing along...we made it through 2/3 of a bunch of songs.  Beverages were involved, but usually someone would be able to remember the next line, and after brief pauses we were off again.  Had an absolute blast, but it was all for fun and definitely not a performance situation.

Regardless, hope you find the program you need, as it sounds like you've got a good thing going.  The pedal turn function could be useful, will have to check that out...

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## Gerard Dick

Is there a USB port on the iPad?  I have a USB device foot pedal page turner / scrolling control. I am using a small lap top rather than iPad.  The best advice I ever got was from an old timer who said "Get past the paper and LEARN songs" I go to some open stage scenes and limit myself to doing stuff that I know by heart.  Having said that I also go to a weekly jam where the confidence / competence level is so low that 80% of the folks need the books.  It blows my mind how someone could still need chords and lyrics for Long Journey Home or New River Train, but they do.

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## montana

I teach in my jam classes you got to learn the words and chords. I went to a jam last weekend and a bunch of people had books of words and chords. It was outside and when a wind came up it was fun watching them running around chasing papers. Learn a half dozen songs cold and go to a jam if people are taking turns picking songs you'll probably have enough tunes for the jam. Then solwly add to your rep.

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## mandroid

A Friend, Flautist, sight reads , so she has the  music on her I Pad.. IDK about any Apps.

OLd Fart, my  failing eyesight would need a bigger screen.. 11 x 14 .. but I dont sight read anyhow..

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## Dan Hulse

I have a couple friends who use their ipads for praise & worship church music. I'm not sure which app. It's ideal for changing keys at a moments notice and for a large rotation of songs. I'm thinking about it myself, but I'm not an Apple fan.

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## foldedpath

> Is there a USB port on the iPad?  I have a USB device foot pedal page turner / scrolling control.


No USB port. There are USB adapters and the GigBook site says it supports USB for page turning, but I think most people are probably using a wireless Bluetooth pedal like the PageFlip Cicada or similar gadgets. If more than one iPad is being used for a group, you'd want to check that the pedals can be assigned to different channels. Otherwise it could get interesting.  :Smile: 




> OLd Fart, my  failing eyesight would need a bigger screen.. 11 x 14 .. but I dont sight read anyhow..


That's a consideration, for sure. The iPad isn't as large as a sheet of paper in a notebook, and you'd be scrolling or page turning for anything more than basic lyrics or an AA/BB fiddle tune in sheet music. 

There is a larger sheet music (and lyrics) display device that's been around for a while now, called the Freehand Musicpad Pro. The display is 12.1" diagonal vs. 9.7" for the iPad, so there's a little more real estate to work with. The Musicpad is used in some schools and orchestras, but with the high price compared to the iPad, I wonder if it will still be around in a few years. Still, it's something to consider if someone needs more display area. 

A laptop computer is the other way to get more screen area, but that's a bulky thing to manage on stage, and it can be even more distracting to the audience.

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## jake-mando

Myself and some of the other players I jam with have iPads. We all use Onsong. It is an excellant app. They make peddles that you can sink with bluetooth to the iPad. It will allow you to scroll and change song with a step pf your foot. I would highly recomend the iPad and Onsong!

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Dan Hulse

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## michaelpthompson

> I wouldn't go on stage if I needed anything more than a setlist.


The advice to LEARN your tunes is excellent, but keep in mind that each of us in our own unique situation. Our band, for instance, knows four or five hours worth of music by heart, but I also keep a giant three-ring binder full of material for requests and rabbit trails. My memory for lyrics is not as good as yours, so I do need the crutch from time to time.

I too have seen people out of touch with their audience with their noses in the sheet music, but if the alternative is that they can only play six or seven tunes over and over, one might want to make a compromise. We all have our own ways of doings things and need not feel superior to those who do it diffrently

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Gino

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## Mike Bunting

> We all have our own ways of doings things and need not feel superior to those who do it diffrently


Nor defensive about it

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DougC

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## Mark Seale

Does OnSong support melody charts like the RealBook?

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## Steve Ostrander

Our group knows about 80 songs. At my age I can't possibly remember the words to that many songs. I can't even remember my computer passwords.

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## jake-mando

I recieved a set of airturn peddles to use with the iPad and Onsong last week. Excellant invention. No more scolling back and forth by hand or trying to get the auto scoll timed just right. Just step on the peddle and and scoll down, need to repeat a line step on the other peddle and scoll up. Works good with sheet music that you have repeat a section that was on the first page.

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Dan Hulse

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## Ted Eschliman

I used the UnrealBook for many months. It worked very well, and you can organize into song lists.
Website: http://www.diystompboxes.com/unrealbook/

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## Rick E Vengeance

Rather late seeing this, but Linksoft SongBook is exactly what you need. There are versions for PC, Mac, Android, iPad etc. The trial version gives you full access to everything (the nag screen is, well, nagging).

The app uses the .chopro or chordpro system which Chordie supports. You can edit your own files on Notepad

http://linkesoft.com/songbook/

Check out youtube for demos.. Oh yes, it scrolls. Adjustable, saveable speed. For 20 bucks don't even bother looking at anything else.

I have no affiliation with these guys, just one very satisfied user

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Bob Bronow, 

Jim

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## Fred G

perform pro in the app store will do the adjustable, autoscroll etc. It is free or 1.99, can't remember. I was looking for something for setlists and ended up using gigbook... really works well.

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## lloving

MusicNotes works for me. The basic app is free. The PDF import feature is 9.95 I think. I use it to learn the song. Performing the song from a sheet is like walking and chewing gum, I can't do it.

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## UncleDave

I'll weigh in on the OnSong.  Been using it about a week and really impressed for the $8.  Scrolls with optional foot pedal or you can set scroll rate internally.  Super easy to change key, size of lyrics, chords, title.  Fast editing.  Easy to upload, transfer via compressed files via email from band mates.  I'm eager to try the feature that allows wireless exchange with another OnSonged iPad.  It even searches the "internet"; in true Apple fashion it doesn't tell where it's looking but it works.  A most annoying Apple feature...no USB.  Every other tablet manufacturer has USB. Good grief.  Can make set lists and add post-it notes.  It will be a wonderful memory assistant, if I remember to bring it.

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Dan Hulse

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## Gino

If reading music helps the quality of the music you play than use it by all means!
After all it's about the music right?  
Of course certain types of music frown on using music (pop, rock, country, blues) and certain types of music frown on NOT using music (classical, big band jazz) !
Isn't that strange.  It's hard to reconcile.  I know for sure I could play much better music with other musicians
if they all knew how to read music!  Problem is they don't, then they get all defensive when you try to use music,
and treat you like YOU are unprofessional.  Saying things like "dude, why do you need music!, my music is from the heart"
Stuff like that, that well is fine that they play from the heart, but when you have 60 songs that rotate all the time and you
play in different groups that all have 60 songs....well it gets hard to keep up with the different arrangements of the SAME song.
Even simple songs, people take liberty with.  I am coming from a rock perspective, but it applies to bluegrass and country also.
I don't know how many people actually think they can play "Sweet Home Alabama" and then forget half the lyrics, don't play any of the breaks,miss most of the guitar fills and parts or make up some lead that they "improvise" that sounds nothing like the spirit of the original song, sure they know D, C and G chords but I think they almost disrespect the song because they don't honor the work that it takes to get it right.  Don't get me wrong, I love to "jam" and improvise too, but when it comes down to it...I really want to have the music I play sound great.  And alot of times that requires writing stuff out so that everyone knows where the breaks and changes are EXACTLY and unless you are a professional traveling band on the road for 300 days a year playing almost every night...you are going to forget....so again...if reading music helps the quality of your music...that is what people want to hear...but they also demand quantity...so whats the answer....well maybe its an iPad scrolling the music.

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gbarnett, 

jaymichael

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## wsugai

Maybe, but the iBook route accomplishes the task so easily, which counts for a lot in my book.




> I guess replacing that with an iBook would make for a somewhat "cleaner" onstage look, but it doesn't seem like a substitute for _learning_ the songs so that they can be performed without prompting.

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allenhopkins

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## allenhopkins

> ...After all it's about the music right?...


Well, sorta kinda.  It's also about the *performance,* and what works in establishing contact/rapport with the audience.  If all the audience wants is a note-for-note "cover" of the original, well, then they can listen to the recording.  In live performance, musicians interact with the audience, hopefully in a positive way; it's a _mutual_ thing.

As a performer, you need to do what you can to maximize the quality of your performance -- to give the audience the entertainment they're expecting.  Obviously, playing badly and sloppily detracts from that, so if it's necessary to have the lyrics and chords displayed for your benefit, that's definitely better than playing the music in a substandard way.

But, in most popular and folk-based forms of music, one wants to remove whatever barriers exist between performer and audience.  We don't expect audience eye contact with the concertmeister of a symphony orchestra, or even with the conductor, but we do expect the lead singer of a rock or bluegrass band to look at us, recognize that we're there, perhaps respond to our reaction to the music.

Not that you _can't_ do that in the context of "reading" your music, but it is harder.  And, like it or not, it seems less professional than having the music -- chords, melody, lyrics, arrangements -- committed to memory, and well enough rehearsed so that the performance "works."

So I think it's more that just the "music"; it's the whole package -- music, stage presence, audience appeal.  Just my 2¢.

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DougC, 

Mandoplumb, 

Scot Thayer, 

stevedenver

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## tashook

I don't necessarily disagree Allen. But it did remind me that I saw Merle Haggard last year in a small venue and he couldn't sing without a TelePrompTer the size of an outdoor theatre screen. I guess the world is changing. 
P.S. I confess I use OnSong

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allenhopkins

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## Iron

I like onsong, it does everything the OP asked about and does it well

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## eadg145

Onsong is your item for this application.  Onsong (and songbook chordpro) will accept your files with the square brackets (Chordpro format), and you won't need to create .pdfs.  OnSong will take .pdfs, too, but you really want the native chordpro with the square brackets so you can do key changes, etc.

Now send me all your song files!   :Smile:

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## Chip Booth

I have been using Setlist Maker for a year or more now and it works pretty well. I think it can autoscroll, and can sync across multiple devices.  It is decent, but there is certainly room for improvement.  

I will have to check out Onsong, but at first glance it seems to be based around that horrid chart form where the chords are embedded above the lyrics.  I avoid that type of chart whenever possible, especially when dealing with amateur or inexperienced musicians, who are unfortunately the ones who seem to gravitate towards it the most.

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## roysboy

> The advice to LEARN your tunes is excellent, but keep in mind that each of us in our own unique situation. Our band, for instance, knows four or five hours worth of music by heart, but I also keep a giant three-ring binder full of material for requests and rabbit trails. My memory for lyrics is not as good as yours, so I do need the crutch from time to time.
> 
> I too have seen people out of touch with their audience with their noses in the sheet music, but if the alternative is that they can only play six or seven tunes over and over, one might want to make a compromise. We all have our own ways of doings things and need not feel superior to those who do it diffrently


I perform solo with backing tracks ( I know , I know ....backing tracks ?? ) at veterans clubs , seniors dances , various smaller private functions where full bands are often unaffordable options . Like you , I have over 300 songs "at the ready" for dancing or requests or sing-alongs , specialty nights ( St. Patty's , Xmas,... whatever ...). I have a terrible memory for lyrics but an ongoing passion for playing music . For years I have included the lyrics on my iPods and LOVE the freedom from packing song books , charts , music stands etc. Works wonderfully ...I enjoy the gigs so much more and , hopefully , that reflects in the performance .

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## randygwatkins

> I don't necessarily disagree Allen. But it did remind me that I saw Merle Haggard last year in a small venue and he couldn't sing without a TelePrompTer the size of an outdoor theatre screen. I guess the world is changing. 
> P.S. I confess I use OnSong


I saw Tom Petty a few years ago, and of course, he sang all his classics.  The interesting part was that my seats were on the extreme left side of the stage, about even with Petty.  From these seats, I noticed that two of the "monitors" on the front of the stage were in fact video screens, which displayed lyrics to every song.  From in front of the stage they looked like any other floor monitors.

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## rawdata01

I use unRealbook & Airturn pedal.
This is a solid combination.

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## stevedenver

what a great thread
I have known about onsong and the pedals but simply haven't made the change. Cool to see so many options.

I , like, Allen, think there is a factor regarding performance which makes books and the like a burden and distraction.  

My little band of BG nincompoops has a tendency to use the 3 ring as a crutch-new venue, last minute changes, requests, and the ever present 'deer in the headlight' phenom.

I don't know how memory works, but I can sing a song in my sleep and then, given the right circumstances, go blank.  I have  decent memory for tunes, but we also have about 200 in our repertoire, and often designated singers.  So, that means while I may know all the lyrics, only maybe half are "my baby".

I also find, there is this thing about either being in the moment, timing wise, phrasing , that sheet music interferes with-like driving a car or, 'reacting' to directions, processing the information just a bit 'late'.

I also find, as this thread reveals, it is pretty common for bands to use prompts, beyond the set list.  I don tknow if that's due to technology, due to old age (BG is Geezerdom, it seems) or, simply too little time to devote exclusively.

As for me, while a lover of tech, I try to do music from memory, " 'cos its good for me".  And yeah, I still blank on tunes from time to time, and have developed the ability to make up lyrics until the light goes back on.   Never have that blanking issue with actually playing the tune, even in a new key, (hey was that I-IV-V or just I-V??LOL) 

.....whatever.......

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allenhopkins

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## Dan Hulse

> I have a couple friends who use their ipads for praise & worship church music. I'm not sure which app. It's ideal for changing keys at a moments notice and for a large rotation of songs. I'm thinking about it myself, but I'm not an Apple fan.


It seems kind of weird to quote myself, but this is more of an update. I now have an iPad and Onsong, soon to get some air pedals. I use mine for church where there is a huge potential pool of songs AND key variations. I do not use it for our Irish folk band, but if I sang more I might consider it. Sort of a poor mans TelePrompTer.

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## wsugai

What are you talking about? Practically all chord charts I see have the chords placed above the lyric line.





> ... that horrid chart form where the chords are embedded above the lyrics.  I avoid that type of chart whenever possible, especially when dealing with amateur or inexperienced musicians, who are unfortunately the ones who seem to gravitate towards it the most.

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## fortwaldron

> Setlist is another useful ipad app, although I'm using Gigbook a lot now since their latest upgrades. I wouldn't go on stage if I needed anything more than a setlist.


Geez, Mike. You must be a god with a helluva memory.  If I decide to play
five songs from Blood on the Tracks, I am going to need a little lyric support.

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## Astro

I noticed at an Elton John concert 2 years ago, there were 2  ipads tilted up on his piano's music book shelf and the lyrics to the current song were scrolling. I dont think Elton had trouble engaging with his audience one bit. I think it is a learned skill and some can do it easier than others. When I have up to a one and a half hour gig (or less) and a known set list, I can go without the lyrics book being opened if I have time to review ahead of time. When we play for 3 hours straight, there is a book open in front of me and I refer to it for many of the songs. What I loose in eye contact I feel I more than gain by not flubbing the lyrics. I am playing with people less than half my age and often playing songs I hadnt heard of before one week prior. We gig out 2 , sometimes 3 times a week. I have a loose leaf note book. I'd switch to a tablet in a heartbeat if the display was the same size. We are very mobile and I dont want to have to worry about a pedal to scroll and I'd loose my place with an auto scroll. Old school works best for me so far for this.

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## TonyP

I love Onsong and it's done what I want. Keep track of words/chords. I use it for practice but not on stage yet. It's not that big a deal to poke the screen to start scrolling, just have to make sure the band is ready to go first  :Smile:  

What I wish they would come out with is a random set list generator and a practice list generator. The practice list generator would keep track of ones that have not been played and bring them up for us. When you get up around 40-50 songs/tunes it seems ones always fall through the cracks. And once through the cracks seems to get totally lost until we get a request....

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## Manfred Hacker

I have been using Mobile Sheets for Android, which is not available for iPad.
It lets me do setlists, collections etc. Automatic scrolling is also possible.

WHAT IS MORE: it works with a Bluetooth pedal to turn pages. I would not want to rely on the right scrolling tempo.
The pedal is a much niftier solution. 
Maybe you Apple guys find an App that has that pedal capability?

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## bobrem

I'll also vouch for Onsong. Works great.

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## mandotim1955

OnSong works with AirTurn pedals via bluetooth on the iPad, Manfred.

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## peeveen

The thing I find most annoying about these types of apps is that it's tough to get them to automatically scroll at the right speed. That sinking feeling as the screen races ahead or lags behind can be quite disheartening.
If you want something that is more tightly bound to the rhythm and tempo of the tune, check out BeatPrompter, only available for Android right now though.

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