# Music by Genre > Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance >  Vega roundback mandolins

## RSW

Here are some photos of my Vega Pettine :

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## Plamen Ivanov

I like the back shot! Those fine ribs... And the aesthetics as a whole. 
This is the Vega that you play in the "Golden Era Treasures" CD, right?

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## RSW

Yes, and here are a couple more pictures. The quality of the workmanship is outstanding. I've retired this instrument just after the recording was made in order to preserve it's condition. My Larson mandolin is inspired by this Vega. Unfortunately, the Vega didn't have the top A (29th fret) and in the recording there is one instance where this note was required. I played it anyway but without the fret.

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## RSW

Here, just for fun, is Giuseppe Pettine's last 'Pettine Special' from Vega. Oddly enough, it only has 24 frets. Notice the glued on rubber bath matt (aiieee!). Pettine played standing, and this sort of helped keep the mandolin from slipping about.


[I]

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## Plamen Ivanov

Thanks for posting these pics, Richard! Really interesting to see a piece of history like this and a common problem (even by sitting position) solved by Mr. Pettine in such ah... radical way. 
 

What's the approximate width at the nut of a Vega mandolin? Have they followed a certain italian bowlback model or developped their own?

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## RSW

The nut is about 28mm in width. Compare this to the 23mm width of many Emberghers. Personally, I find the Vega necks the most comfortable to play on of all the mandolins that I have tried to date (many). The Vega is very much influenced by Vinaccia instruments of the late 1800's and the sound is quite similar. The unusual aspect of the Vega design is that the bridge is on the other side of the top bend or cant.

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## Plamen Ivanov

Did i say Embergher?! No, but that's exactly what i had in mind! Thank you! Yesterday evening i had the chance to play two Emberghers and i was surprised how really narrow the neck is! I couldn't play even a simplest tune. Obviously it's a matter of getting used to it, but still not for me. Besides they were both strung with Thomastik strings and the sound was quite different than the sound produced by Ralf, Sebastiaan, Ali, etc. Anyway...

Do i remember well that it's the only (or if not the only, one of the few) bowlback mandolins with such unusual bridge position? (I mean Vega)

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## Jim Garber

Douglas Gifford has a Pettine model pictured on his site. It looks like the fretboard extension was lopped off altogether. I am not sure if the bridge is original either.

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## Jim Garber

Here is my style 3 Vega. It was in amazing condition and currently strung with Dogal Calace dolce strings and it is a wonderful instrument.

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DavidKOS

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## Jim Garber

> Did i say Embergher?! No, but that's exactly what i had in mind!


I don't see where the Vega copied Emberghers more than any other Italian maker. Possibly more Vinaccia than Embergher, if any. I think they put their own design elements into their mandolins as did Martin or Washburn for that matter.

Emberghers are less like any of the vintage American mandolins than any other Italian ones: narrow radiused fretboard; bridge tilted thicker on the bass side; and different curvature on the bowl-neck join.

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## Jim Garber

There are three Artist models in one of my vega catalog reprints: Pettine, Abt and Gregorio Scalzo. Has anyone ever seen a Scalzo model? Has anyone any further info on him as a player? Vega just mentions that Sr. Scalzo toured the Americas and Europe and his tours caused "great furore". He is not listed in my copy of Bone.

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## Plamen Ivanov

Hi Jim,

I don't see any recemblance too. I just wanted to compare the nut width of the Vega with the nut width (nut narrowness) of the Embergher mandolins which i played yesterday. And although i didn't ask explicitly about that, i was happy for the telepatic answer of Richard providing the comparison between both. That's all. Of course, it's not telepathy though, the Embergher nut width is just the extreme limit to which one would compare the width of the nut of other types of mandolins.

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## etbarbaric

Thanks for posting the pictures of your Pettine Special Richard, and especially for those of Guiseppe Pettine's own instrument. These instruments are as lovely as I remember them. I will be taking some better photos of the Abt special and will post them here later... probably later in the weekend or next week (work has me buried just now).

Eric

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## brunello97

Thanks, Richard for posting such great, clear photos. Plami, you are right, the craft is exceptional and the wood selection beautiful. It appears to be in mint condition. 

I enjoy the curved detail at the rear headstock/neck joint.  Is this a Vega feature, or is it employed by others as well?

Mick

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## Martin Jonas

> Yesterday evening i had the chance to play two Emberghers and i was surprised how really narrow the neck is! I couldn't play even a simplest tune. Obviously it's a matter of getting used to it, but still not for me. Besides they were both strung with Thomastik strings and the sound was quite different than the sound produced by Ralf, Sebastiaan, Ali, etc. Anyway...


Perhaps surprisingly, I've always felt playing my Embergher with its super-narrow nut to be most comfortable. I also have several mandolins with much wider nuts, including a Mid-Mo M-0W (wide nut option), and switch between them pretty easily. Maybe that's a reflection of my rather lowly technical standard in the first place -- my fingering technique isn't so fine-honed as to be overly sensitive to nut width changes.

One notable difference between the Embergher and the Mid-Mo is the approach to adjacent fifths. On the Embergher, I can stop two courses with one fingertip, whereas on the Mid-Mo I use two fingers.

It's a pity that the Emberghers you have played were strung with Thomastiks. It will rob them of their defining tonal characteristics. One thing that I find very striking with my Embergher is that even though it's a lowly Tipo A, and even though it's played by poor little me, there is an immediately obvious tonal resemblance to the much grander Emberghers. I have noticed this in person with the 5bis played by Ali and by Frances Taylor, and in Ralf's recordings.

Martin

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## Neil Gladd

> Has anyone ever seen a Scalzo model? Has anyone any further info on him as a player?


I've run across either sheet music or recordings by him, but I don't remember which off the top of my head. Will report back later.

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## David Newton

Great instruments, guys. The Vega Special with the fluer-de-leis inlays in the FB are very nice.

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## Bob A

It almost takes a magnifying glass to see the detail in the lyre inlay. Tiny bits of pearl, with even tinier engraving.

While the fleurs-de-lys are attractive, they lack the variety and surprise factor inherent in the regular Vega deco style inlays. 

But that's just cosmetic. These mandolins are super players' instruments, with a sound that has to be experienced to be believed.

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## CraigF

This is cool. Thanks Richard. 

I will try and get a better pic of my style 3 to post.

Does anyone have a serial number list, so I can tell what year mine was made?

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## Jim Garber

It is interesting that of all the pics I have of Pettine Specials the fretboard extension does not reach across to the other side of the soundhole, whereas in the catalog cut I have the Pettine model is the only one where that happens and which the fretboard has up to 29 frets. Was there a variation of the GP special that did that or was it only a Vega fantasy?

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## RSW

Haven't a clue, it would be nice to know if the companies business records exist somewhere... we have so much info on Gibson co. but the american bowlback manufacturers have left us really in the dark. I started this topic if only to unearth as many surviving examples as possible, perhaps we'll hit on one of these 'catalogue' gems.

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## John Bertotti

I've heard the Larson mandolin, a fine instrument, how did it's tone compare to the Vega?

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## Eugene

I'm keen to add a little to this, but don't know when I'll find the time for a few new photos and writing. It will be a 2- to 3-concert weekend for me depending upon my stamina.

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## RSW

> I've heard the #Larson mandolin, a fine instrument, how did it's tone compare to the Vega?


The Larson is a tad brighter and more forceful than the Vega. A bit like comparing a Vinaccia to a vintage Calace mandolin (the Vega more closely akin to the Vinaccia). I like them both but find the Larson more complete, more variety in tone production. Both are very desirable instruments and the workmanship for either instrument is as good as it gets.

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## Marc Woodward

Hi folks,
bit late to the party - I changed my email address and lost my password etc (muppetry) so haven't been contributing here for a couple of years.... anyway, fwiw
here is a link to a little vid of me playing my Pettine special. It's almost identical to Richard's though not in such good condition. I really need to have an expert do some work on it....

Cheers all,
Marc :Mandosmiley:

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## Marc Woodward

Whoops, not sure why that didn't work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URxh20xmSSg

try again!

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## Jim Garber

Here's a little help for you, Marc. You just go to advance, click on the youtube button and put in those letters after the equal sign in the youtube url

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## Marc Woodward

Thanks Jim, 
not classical I know but just thought it might be of interest to Vega nuts although I was just messing round and didn't make the vid specifically to show the instrument otherwise I'd do some close up shots etc. Still you get an idea of the sound,

Cheers,
Marc

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## Jim Garber

Bowlbacks don't have to be only for classical. I have been playing some choro on mine.

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## Schlegel

I've got 2 Vega mandolins these days and was really impressed by the quality.  The plain student model was no less well made than the fancier model.  Great sounding, every bit as good as the Martin student model.   I don't see the artist models too often for sale, but i'm looking, now.  Eventually one has to go through Ebay!

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## Marc Woodward

Yes, I've seen very few high end Vegas for sale. I'd naturally be interested to know what a Pettine or Abt Special was worth these days!

Marc

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## Jim Garber

How very strange and karmic... after Marc posted his video and revived this thread, a sort of real life thread revived itself for me. Back in March of this year a woman contacted me about a Vega mandolin. I IDed it for her as Pettine Special and gave her some info about the mandolin and about Pettine. I have been looking for one sometime. I told her I was interested in buying it but she thought that she might like to learn to play -- which I did encourage her to do. She said that if she did sell she would give me right of first refusal. I had not heard from her at all and then the other day, I got an email from her that she was interested in selling. There are some other odd circumstances in the interim but today I worked out an equitable deal with her for the mandolin.

It does need some work, some of it potentially costly, but in thought it a good enough instrument to take that chance. Anyone recommend a luthier to take this on?

I have posted pics on this Post a Picture of Your Bowlback thread.

Here are a couple:

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## Tavy

> Anyone recommend a luthier to take this on?


The only US based luthiers I know of that work on these much are Paul Hostetter and Jake Wildwood, but you probably know that already  :Wink:   Otherwise you could try asking on the builders forum if anyone can recomend someone closer to you.

HTH, John.

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## Alex Timmerman

Congrats Jim,

With this beatiful Vega mandolin! Take good care of her.


Best, Alex.

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## Mandolin Mick

Marc-

Nice playing!  :Smile:

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## Mandolin Mick

RSW & Jim-

Nice mandolins!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Marc Woodward

Thanks Mick! And John (Tavy) are you interested in looking at my Vega Pettine Special - it needs some work and as I live in Devon also might be worth meeting up?

Marc

http://www.myspace.com/marcwoodward

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## Jim Garber

> I have posted pics on this Post a Picture of Your Bowlback thread.


There are a few more (and much better) photos taken outside today at the thread linked above.

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## Bob A

As a merely informational aside, I note that Bernunzio has a Vega Lansing Special on his site. I understand Lansing to be a player of the era, not a town in Michigan; I also have heard that they in general do not come up to the admittedly very high standard of the other Vega named special models.

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## Jim Garber

The player was George Lansing. I have a method book published under his name. I think the Lansing Specials were still pretty nice instruments but there has been one at Lark Street Music for a number of years and I think the one at Bernunzio has been there for awhile also. Here is the one at Lark Street.

Looks to me to be (I don't have any reference here) a style 2 with a Lansing plate.

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## Jim Garber

You can see the one at Bernunzio's here.

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## Bob A

Bernunzio's example has the distinctive and very appealing engraved position markers that adorn Vega mandolins in general. The Lark Street instrument seems to have plain dots.

If the backplate is silver, could be worth a bit on its own. Genuine silver coins pre-1964 are trading at 25 times face value. Surprising how the dollar has tanked. Not that I'm suggesting you melt down your mandolins for the metal, but there's usually a bit of gold foil under the Italian tortoise pickguards. 

(Picture of Bob walking down the street behind an old cart pulled by a clapped-out nag, offering new mandolins for old. . . . There was an old man with just such a cart used to come thru my grandparents' neighborhood, collecting rags and paper. Also I remember a scissors-grinder, with his foot-powered device strapped to his back, working my neighborhood. Just a bit of the Old Country, came along with everyone else. I miss that neighborhood; it'll never reappear, I'm afraid).

Whoops. Slipped back thru the Chronosynclastic Infundibulum again. My mother told me to be careful I didn't get stuck there; now I wouldn't mind, at all.

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## Richard Walz

> The only US based luthiers I know of that work on these much are Paul Hostetter and Jake Wildwood, but you probably know that already   Otherwise you could try asking on the builders forum if anyone can recomend someone closer to you.
> 
> HTH, John.



Dan Larson and I developped a Vega model inspired by my own Vega "Pettine Special". I believe there is little significant difference between the Abt, Pettine or any other high end Vega mandolins. Even the mid range Vega's are for all tonal purposes of the same caliber.

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## Richard Walz

> You can see the one at Bernunzio's here.


This  is a bargain as long as the neck is straight...

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## brunello97

> Dan Larson and I developped a Vega model inspired by my own Vega "Pettine Special". I believe there is little significant difference between the Abt, Pettine or any other high end Vega mandolins. Even the mid range Vega's are for all tonal purposes of the same caliber.


Richard, that is a strong position statement, and given your experience with Dan Larsen, certainly to be taken seriously. Since this thread is expanding into a more thorough discussion of Vega bowlbacks, could you elaborate more on this?  What does separate a Pettine from a Lansing, in your estimate?  Or a 'mid-range' Vega from an 'Artist Model'?

thanks!

Mick

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## Jim Garber

I glanced at my Lansing Special jpegs and it looks to me that they took higher models of the regular line like style 2 and style 3 (the Bernunzio example) and put the gear plate on them. The Pettine is a redesigned model -- deeper and slightly longer bowl, maple neck, extended fretboard (24 frets  or even to 29), zero fret, unique inlays. 

Speaking in general of Vegas -- has anyone seen a style 5? This is the top of the line outside of the artist models.

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## Marc Woodward

It seems the general principle is that the higher the price the more ribs! The Vega Pettine special has somewhere in excess of 30 ribs if I recall correctly (haven't got it in front of me at the mo). Whether this makes any difference to the sound I doubt. 
I would think that Lansing special at $299 looks pretty cheap...though I don't like the look of the split in the back! 
Where else can you get that level of workmanship, tone and brazilian rosewood at the kind of price? Still ain't no good if ya wanna play bluegrass, hot dang!

Marc


www.myspace.com/marcwoodward

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## Jim Garber

Bernunzio (as well as Lark Street) has had this mandolin there for at least a year. It is currently on sale and the rpice is reduced. John seems to be trying to clear out some inventory and slashing prices at the moment. I have a feeling that this one needs some work to make it playable.

BTW I think this Lansing model is pretty close to a style 3. See my style 3.

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## Schlegel

By coincidence there is now a style 3 on consignment at Elderly:  http://elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-5727.htm  NFI

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## Jim Garber

I have to say that I was extremely lucky to acquire my style 3. I bought it on eBay and it is (and was) basically perfect, no cracks, repaired or otherwise and in exc to near mint condition. it is prob the only one i have ever bought that needed no work. The only thing I would do would be to somehow compensate the saddle.

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## Marc Woodward

Jim, instead of compensating the saddle could you not use a wound second string? I understand that the serious Embergher devotees use a straight bridge and strings designed this way which don't need a compensated bridge. I guess Richard would know better than me on this point.... just a thought,
Marc

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## Marc Woodward

Incidentally it looks like the style 3 is a more high end instrument than the Lansing Special. Certainly more ribs!
Marc

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## Jim Garber

Hi Marc... Actually  I know a few of the most serious Embergher devotees and AFAIK they prefer compensated saddles on their 5 bis's. The compensation is a lot subtler than on, say, Gibson instruments, but it is compensated nonetheless. I suppose wound A strings might work but I think those that need better intonation might prefer working the bridge.

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## Richard Walz

> Richard, that is a strong position statement, and given your experience with Dan Larsen, certainly to be taken seriously. Since this thread is expanding into a more thorough discussion of Vega bowlbacks, could you elaborate more on this?  What does separate a Pettine from a Lansing, in your estimate?  Or a 'mid-range' Vega from an 'Artist Model'?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> Mick


Well, this is my subjective opinion based on having played maybe a dozen Vega mandolins of different grades among which were  4 different 'Pettine Special' mandolins includning mine and the maestro's last instrument. The 'special' bit relates to materials, degree of finish and number of ribs, and length of fingerboard as opposed to their standard 'orchestral grade instruments'. I own one of the latter and it is every bit as good tonally as my "Pettine Special", it just has less frets and fewer ribs and more plain looking wood. My feeling with these instruments (as with the Embergher's  and Calace's as well) is that the model guarranties a certain tonal spectrum.

That strange compensated bridge looks really fussy for nothing. I wouldn't want to have to tweak it, probably impossible to do so. With most bridges I end up doing some tweaking and I find the standard Vega bridge very user friendly. With Embergher original bridges, I've yet to find a set of strings that intonate correctly. I do not use wound A strings.

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## Jim Garber

I agree with Richard for the most part. As noted, my style three Vega is a wonderful playing and sounding instrument and in some cases I would prefer it to most other bowlbacks except for a properly set up Embergher. BTW for a player as opposed to a collector, there is no real reason to play with the original bridge unless it is truly functional. Think about violin bridges -- how many pro violinists would insist on an original Guarneri or Stradivari bridge?

I want to replace the Pettine bridge with a sensible repro one for a number of reasons. For one, I prefer a bone saddle and would have it intonated properly. 2nd that is one odd bridge and I wonder if it even works.

BTW I may have found a relatively local excellent luthier --very busy, of course -- who is interested in working on this Pettine prob in the spring. I hope it works out. I will keep you posted and I can be patient.

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## brunello97

Thanks, Richard and Jim for the clarifications and additional information.  It is great to have a dedicated Vega bowlback thread.  I am coming around to seeing the Ditson Empire I just acquired as probably being a Vega--the beefy neck is the last sticking point.  Nonetheless, the quality seems to extend across quite a range of Vega models.  I think it is a positive thing in all respects that the discussion here contributes to the development of their reputation and a broader knowledge base about them.

And while I'm at it, I will say how pleased I am that the Vega thread has skunked out Bro' Eug from his silence down 'south.'  Always great to have you on hand, amigo.

Mick

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## Jim Garber

... nice to hear from Richard as well... it has been way too long. I hope good things are keeping you all from this site.

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## Marcelyn

Does anyone happen to know which model this Vega might be? 

Front
Back

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## Jim Garber

Looks like a style 4. Here's a catalog pic along with Jeff's pics.

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## Marcelyn

Thanks so much Jim. I'm considering my first bowlback. It was bound to happen eventually.

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## Richard Walz

It should be a wonderful instrument, try not to overstring it (modern high tension strings) and use a more pointed pick (the sound will already be on the dark tone side).

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## Jim Garber

Here is another style I have not seen in person or in photos. Called the Style 5 or Deluxe, aside from the artist models, the top of the line.

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## Scott6113

First Post. I've had a Lansing Special for going on 16 years. Got it as a gift, but I think it cost @$500 at The Music Emporium in Arlington, MA. I'm no expert, but I consider it to be in excellent condition. Just a few pick scratches from strumming. Frets indicate very little playing. The only reason, I think, that it didn't dry out, since around New England the dry winter air kills neglected instruments, the only reason is that the funny hard leather case it came in sacrificed its moisture to it. I had a case made and keep a violin dampit in it, as well as run a humidifier in the room. Let me see if I can show you. I'd love to know its age. Best I can tell from bits of info here and elsewhere, maybe 1905. The nickel silver tuning key cover says: Lansing Special Boston MA. The serial stamping says: 29834. The natural light picture is closest to the real color, which is a rich red that I think is rosewood. The flash pictures alter the color. The finish is that good. It will pass to my estate. Love playing it even if I just do the basics. Such sustain! I tried a new The Gibson at a shop, at almost 10k. Sounded tinny, no sustain compared to this instrument. F hole arched tops can't compare. Playing it for church Wednesday. It fills the sanctuary. So evocative played slow. expressively.
Scott

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## Ed Goist

Hi Scott; welcome! 
That is a magnificent looking mandolin. 
The back especially is just stunning.

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## brunello97

> First Post. I've had a Lansing Special for going on 16 years. ..... Such sustain! I tried a new The Gibson at a shop, at almost 10k. Sounded tinny, no sustain compared to this instrument. F hole arched tops can't compare. Playing it for church Wednesday. It fills the sanctuary. So evocative played slow. expressively.
> Scott


Are you trying to make some friends around here, Scott?  :Wink: 

Mick

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## etbarbaric

> Here is another style I have not seen in person or in photos. Called the Style 5 or Deluxe, aside from the artist models, the top of the line.


Hi Jim,

Interesting that you should mention the "Deluxe" model.  I haven't seen one exactly like the picture either.  However, I do have a rather interesting high-end Vega that has a rosewood back with fluted ribs and silver separators. It is a fine instrument and the only one I've ever seen with fluted ribs.  I let Dan Larson measure it years ago when he was coming up with his Vega-inspired model.

Best,

Eric

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## Schlegel

> Here is another style I have not seen in person or in photos. Called the Style 5 or Deluxe, aside from the artist models, the top of the line.


$275??   Big money back then!  Is that more than the Loar F5s cost?

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## bratsche

Hi and welcome, Scott!

My Vega does not say anything on the tuning cover plate, but is otherwise as close to a twin of yours as I've seen.  Well, except mine has a top that's a little more worn.  But it has a bowl that's virtually identical to your picture, as is the style of inlay and the engraved tailipiece cover.  Mine is numbered 27037, making it a little older than yours. Somewhere or other around here, I received information that placed mine around 1910.  



bratsche

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## Eugene

> There are three Artist models in one of my vega catalog reprints: Pettine, Abt and Gregorio Scalzo. Has anyone ever seen a Scalzo model? Has anyone any further info on him as a player? Vega just mentions that Sr. Scalzo toured the Americas and Europe and his tours caused "great furore". He is not listed in my copy of Bone.


Let's see . . . A decade has passed.  It seems about time to resurrect this old thread.  I picked up another Vega mandolin about 1.75 years ago, not knowing anything about it other than it was a nice looking Vega with an extended fingerboard.  In spite of corresponding quite a bit before the sale, the seller never directly answered my questions about functional condition, instead defaulting to discuss its cosmetic condition, volume, and quality of tone.  Still, I sprung for it (probably shouldn’t have).  It wasn't quite playable when it arrived: the cant has fallen and it fretted out in several positions.

I asked some friends about restoring the soundboard’s cant, but none were willing to take that on.  Finally, just a couple months ago, I took it to an altogether different luthier friend who was willing to “make it go” without a full-blown restoration.  He removed the frets, planed/sanded the fingerboard to accommodate for the loss of height of the soundboard, refretted, and fit the bridge.  It’s now with yet another local friend who may make time to restore the engraving in the position markers that was lost with the fingerboard work.  In spite of the fallen cant, I’m pretty happy with its state.  It’s now playable and is indeed *loud*.

That brought me to some correspondence with my trusted mandobuddies and Cafe regulars (or occasionals) Jim, Paul, and Eric.  After a little back-and-forth among us, Jim located a catalog image of Vega's Gregorio Scalzo artist model, and it fits!  (The description mostly does.)  Thus, voila, I appear to have inadvertently stumbled into the purchase of one of Vega's rarest professional models.  It can be difficult to differentiate between Vega's 3 and 8 stamps, but I believe mine is 30899, which (following the tables Paul compiled) would place mine around 1914 vintage.

We did quite a bit of probing following our correspondence and turned up quite a few articles and ads in the era's periodicals that mentioned Gregorio Scalzo.  Here's a summary.

. . . And pics:

Scratchplate profile is unique to the Scalzo special model.


The bridge is ebony, no saddle, and strongly compensated.  29-fret fingerboard.


35 ribs without clasp (pay no attention to the weirdo reflected in the bowl).


Maple neck with classic Vega volute.


Hopefully, the position markers will resemble this again soon.  There are no dots to mark position along the side of the fingerboard; the player is thus flying blind.

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brunello97, 

frankie, 

Jim Garber, 

Joe Bartl

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## brunello97

Wonderful, Martin.

Fair play to you.  That is truly a beauty. 

Thanks for sharing.

Mick

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Eugene

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## Eugene

> Wonderful, Martin.


Thanks, but ribbing on your assumed typo, Mick, this is one of my Vegas and I'm still Eugene.

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brunello97

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## brunello97

Doh.    Sorry, bro.

It did have me wondering how MJ would have scored a Vega over there in Wales.

Maybe I was confusing it with that "Wonderful Martin" mandolin you have?

Yeah, that must be it.   :Wink: 

Mick

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Eugene

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## Jim Garber

I call him wonderful Eugene!

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brunello97, 

Eugene

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## Eugene

Aw, shucks.

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brunello97

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## Martin Jonas

> Doh.    Sorry, bro.
> 
> It did have me wondering how MJ would have scored a Vega over there in Wales.
> 
> Maybe I was confusing it with that "Wonderful Martin" mandolin you have?
> 
> Yeah, that must be it.  
> 
> Mick


I have been called many things, but "wonderful" is rarely among them...

Martin aka "Wonderful"

(Congratulations on the Vega, Eugene)

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brunello97, 

Eugene

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