# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Makers getting Top Dollar

## dschonbrun

For many of us, a top level mandolin is something we spend years or even a lifetime saving and yearning for.  Here's a short list of the global individual luthiers, producing in small quantities, who are currently getting 10K or more for their new top level mandolins and who have established themselves as producing instruments of consistently high quality.  Please feel free to add any that I may have missed.

John Monteleone - $45,000
Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
Hans Brentrup (just stopped mfg.) - $15,000 - 20,000
Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
Tom Ellis - $12,000 - 14,000
Bill Collings (MF5V Custom) - $11,000 - 13,000
Corrado Giacomel J5 - $12,500
Jonathan McLanahan - $11,000 - 14,000

And here's a short list of maker's that are deceased, but continue to bring high prices.  Again, happy to get input here from others.

Lloyd Loar Signed Gibson F5 - $75,000 - 200,000
D'Angelico - $20,000 - 35,000
D'Aquisto - $15,000 - 25,000
John Zeidler (Carrara) - $18,000 - 25,000

Happy Picking,
D

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## Jeff Mando

Cool list!  The mention of D'Angelico makes me wonder what the market might have been had the bluegrassers embraced the D'Angelico mandolins.........

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## Bluetickhound

I can name (but won't...) at LEAST 10 builders who don't get that kind of scratch for their instruments but whose work is every bit as good as any of the above mentioned builders....

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DHopkins, 

Mandobart, 

Mandoplumb, 

Timbofood, 

yankees1

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## DataNick

A lot of that pricing is "ambitious"....I know Carter's for example is pushing Heiden prices but I dunno, are they really selling retail for those prices in today's market?

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## Mark Seale

I'd be curious to see the same list and what their instruments bring on the secondary market.  I think that is most telling for realized and retained value.  While Monteleone may publish (and get) a price of $45k for a new grand artist mandolin, there are several available now under $20k.  Seems almost a bargain... 

And, I'm familiar with instruments from everyone on that list except for McLanahan.  I had no idea his prices were in that market.  Where do Bill Halsey and Gail Hester's fall?

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## fscotte

McLanahan builds out of an actual shed, and Macrostie builds out of and old barn like structure.  So you're telling me there's a chance.....

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## Drew Streip

I'd suggest Bob Altman - $19,000 for a F5 Loar Series, and a 2008 is at Carter for $11.5K  

http://www.altmanguitars.com/mandframe.html 

And Jamie Wiens - Starting at $10,500 for an F5, as of January 2017 

http://wiensmandolins.com/acquiring-a-wiens-mandolin/ 

I have never played one by either builder, but I know (from a purely player's perspective) that they are highly regarded.

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9lbShellhamer

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## Bluetickhound

Is McClanahan still building out of that shed? I love watching his YouTube videos (Hey Everybody!!) and in his latest clips it looks like he has a much bigger shop now. He has posted here in the past, maybe he'll drop in and let us know.

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## Bill Snyder

Michael Lewis website lists his base price for an f-5 at $9,000 and his "Archive F model (Loar Style)" at $15,000. 
I think those have been at that price for several years now.

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## Clinton Johnson

All I can say is: WOW you're a blessed individual if you have the monetary resources to afford such a mandolin.

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## mrmando

What is Troy Harris asking these days? 

Sometimes people ask more than $10K for mandolins by deceased builders like Givens, Hutto, Paganoni. 

Stanley, Apitius, Clark, Mowry, Kimble, Miller, Duff ... all under $10K and looking like bargains.

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## dschonbrun

Although his prices don't hit 10K right now, One luthier who came to mind that I wanted to include is that Oliver Apitius.  His new Yorkville Jazz models are $7,800 without any customization, and about $8,500 with a Calton or Hoffee.

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Austin Bob

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## dschonbrun

Will Kimble should probably be added... there's a vintage F from 2002 at the Music Emporium for $8,500.  I'd imagine a new one would be right around 10-11 based on that.

A. Lawrence Smart was also missed in the list.  He's charging $9,900 for his F5 right now, and $15,000 for a Mandocello.

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9lbShellhamer

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## Denny Gies

Randy Wood should be on the list.

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## dschonbrun

Added Smart & Kimble based on recent sales

John Monteleone - $45,000
Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
Hans Brentrup (just stopped mfg.) - $15,000 - 20,000
Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
Tom Ellis - $12,000 - 14,000
Bill Collings (MF5V Custom) - $11,000 - 13,000
Corrado Giacomel J5 - $12,500
Jonathan McLanahan - $11,000 - 14,000
A. L. Smart - $9,500 - 15,000
Will Kimble $9,000 - 11,000

And here's a short list of maker's that are deceased, but continue to bring high prices. Again, happy to get input here from others.

Lloyd Loar Signed Gibson F5 - $75,000 - 200,000
D'Angelico - $20,000 - 35,000
D'Aquisto - $15,000 - 25,000
John Zeidler (Carrara) - $18,000 - 25,000

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## dschonbrun

> Randy Wood should be on the list.


Randy's new protoype is listed at $12,500 by Tony Williamson.  Have recent sales regularly eclipsed 10K?

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## Karl Hoyt

I am not sure where, but Jonathan McLanahan is now working out of a bigger shop.  He was very gracious to offer me some pointers on rebuilding a 1915 F2... so I've kept in contact with him.... very humble guy.

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## sliebers

I'd like to say reading this list is inspiring as a builder.  Instead, I find it depressing.  Knowing how many hours I put into a mandolin and getting a fraction of these prices lets the wind out of one's sails.  Perhaps one day?

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Karl Hoyt

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## Jeff Mando

> I'd like to say reading this list is inspiring as a builder.  Instead, I find it depressing.  Knowing how many hours I put into a mandolin and getting a fraction of these prices lets the wind out of one's sails.  Perhaps one day?


I look at it like the handful who make the big bucks are just now getting paid for all the years they worked for peanuts......

but sure, it would be cool to know that you've got 10 orders and the next two years income is already taken care of.

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## dschonbrun

> What is Troy Harris asking these days? 
> 
> Sometimes people ask more than $10K for mandolins by deceased builders like Givens, Hutto, Paganoni. 
> 
> Stanley, Apitius, Clark, Mowry, Kimble, Miller, Duff ... all under $10K and looking like bargains.


Good call on Paganoni... I can find records at the $11,500 and $12,000 level.  I'll include him in the deceased section.  

On RL Givens... I'm seeing only a few that are asking above 10K in the market, and don't see verifiable records of sales above 10K.  Most of what's available are A styles, and they are in the 2K-6K range.

Andrew Mowry is certainly on the bubble.  His F5 retails for $8,200, Mandola $9,200, Octave is $11,000... but those are recent increases.  For an F, he's not crossed the 10K threshold yet, where others on the list have with regularity.  I think he'll be there soon, given the artists that are using his instruments, and the records they are making.

I would also say Fletcher Brock is also on the bubble.  His prices are in line with Mowry.

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## Spruce

> W
> 
> Sometimes people ask more than $10K for mandolins by deceased builders like Givens, Hutto, Paganoni.


Add the late great John Sullivan to that list...
His F5s are going for 10K and up...

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## Bluetickhound

> I'd like to say reading this list is inspiring as a builder.  Instead, I find it depressing.  Knowing how many hours I put into a mandolin and getting a fraction of these prices lets the wind out of one's sails.  Perhaps one day?


It doesn't move me one way or the other. I'm of the opinion that what folks get for their instruments is their business and more power to them if they can get top dollar. If I concern myself with building the very best instrument I can possibly build, the rest will take care of itself.

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## mrmando

> Randy's new protoype is listed at $12,500 by Tony Williamson.


Really? Wow, I guess I'll hang on to mine, and maybe when the time comes I can afford to retire after all.

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## fscotte

No one is stopping anyone from asking a high price for their mando builds.  In fact, asking higher actually makes the thing seem more valuable.  There's a thing about asking too low too.  If you ask too little, people automatically think there must be a mistake somewhere, corners cut, or defects, or something fishy - it lowers the inherent "value" by asking too little.  

For instance, if I were to throw an Eastman in the classifieds and ask $8000 for it, everybody would scoff and laugh and wonder who lost their marbles.  However, if I were to throw "The Bel" mandolin build #12 on there for $8000.. there would be NO laughing or scoffing.  Maybe I wouldn't ever see a bite, but nobody would impugn the high price.  Rather, people would say, never heard of that maker but it better sound good!

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## 9lbShellhamer

I can only imagine how much this beloved site has driven up the value of our wonderful pieces of art/tools of the trade.

I think the price distribution of high dollar to low dollar mandolins is pretty much accurate, and I think they are fairly priced up to a point. 

I love going to Carter and blind testing some 6000$ mandolins and comparing to $10k-$20k mandolins... 

I've played a $6000 A style that would compete easily with the highest dollar mandolins, and I don't jest, I bet in some blind tests my 2002 MT2 could easily beat out some $7000 mandolins.

A lot of them are great and I love them all.  :Smile: 

I digress. I think this is a really cool list. I really do enjoy a lot of the aforementioned!

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Timbofood

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## Mandoborg

Shellhammer you hit the nail right on the head !!! I've seen instruments by two of the ' big names' on that list,  one of each, and they were dogs IMO. One the guy waited almost 7 years to get ! I also chuckle when I see a certain name on there who was charging like 18K + after the first 5 instruments, and folks lined up. I'm all for it if you can get it. How do you tell somebody there new 15K mandolin they waited 5 years for doesn't really sound that good ??!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUGTTuoRPs

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## fscotte

> How do you tell somebody there new 15K mandolin they waited 5 years for doesn't really sound that good ??!!


Tell em to wait another 5 years.  

My '99 Gibson A5L was just that dog when new.  Today I can say that it sounds as good as the best of em.  

What they will always have is a Picasso, or a Rembrandt.  Nice pictures, and I've seen better, but still... it's a Picasso.  When Gilchrist stops making, when Kemnitzer stops, when Macrostie stops, there taint no more son.

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## barry

> Good call on Paganoni... I can find records at the $11,500 and $12,000 level.  I'll include him in the deceased section.  
> 
> On RL Givens... I'm seeing only a few that are asking above 10K in the market, and don't see verifiable records of sales above 10K.  Most of what's available are A styles, and they are in the 2K-6K range.
> 
> Andrew Mowry is certainly on the bubble.  His F5 retails for $8,200, Mandola $9,200, Octave is $11,000... but those are recent increases.  For an F, he's not crossed the 10K threshold yet, where others on the list have with regularity.  I think he'll be there soon, given the artists that are using his instruments, and the records they are making.
> 
> I would also say Fletcher Brock is also on the bubble.  His prices are in line with Mowry.



You can move John Paganoni back out of the "deceased section".  I just received an email from him.  I'm happy to report that he is alive and well.  He is just not currently building mandolins.

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Bernie Daniel, 

DataNick, 

Jeff Mando, 

Spruce

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## kjbllc

some things become collector items, and get priced beyond there playing qualities. not that they are not top of the line but a bonus price gets added to. it.   I know  violins, of living makers can bring more money than a new one that they make.

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## JeffD

For many of them the situation is, (I surmise), that were they to charge less their backlog would be excessive and the wait time would be extreme. Other choices to meet the demand would be short cuts that compromise on quality (not an option), or more automation in the process, which also can impact quality, or hiring on people to do the routine tasks, which they likely already do to some extent.

Their instruments are of such quality and sought after properties that the price is what slows down the demand so they can work at a human pace and meet demand without compromise to quality.

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## JeffD

There are likely more than a few first rate luthiers creating amazing quality instruments, struggling with how to meet the demand. Likely in time they will reach a point where they raise their prices in order to reduce wait time.

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## dschonbrun

Updated again

John Monteleone - $45,000
Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
Tom Ellis - $12,000 - 14,000
Bill Collings (MF5V Custom) - $11,000 - 13,000
Corrado Giacomel J5 - $12,500
Jonathan McLanahan - $11,000 - 14,000
A. L. Smart - $9,500 - 15,000
Will Kimble $9,000 - 11,000

And here's a short list of maker's that are no longer building (perhaps deceased), but continue to bring high prices. Again, happy to get input here from others.

Lloyd Loar Signed Gibson F5 - $75,000 - 200,000
D'Angelico - $20,000 - 35,000
D'Aquisto - $15,000 - 25,000
John Zeidler (Carrara) - $18,000 - 25,000
Hans Brentrup (just stopped mfg.) - $15,000 - 20,000
Paganoni - $12,000-15,000

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## dschonbrun

I agree that price on it's own does not equate to build quality or sonic performance.  Sometimes you can find an instrument from a maker early in their career, and believing it will be great... buy before their prices skyrocket.

I purchased my Northfield having compared earlier Artist Series instruments to much more expensive samples from other makers (both modern and old), and simply prefer the qualities of the NF to my ear, and the feel to my hands.  Knowing that Mike Marshall, Mike Kemnitzer, Adam Steffey, and Emory Lester all contributed to the development in some way... made me feel like it was a sound investment.

For those who walk into a shop and "only want the best" (and can afford it) - something scarce and perceived as desirable, getting a top maker's instrument at a top price is the way to go.  That wasn't my route... 

I wanted to build the list more to share with others and provide some perspective, but it's by no means an endorsement of any one particular maker... simply a reflection of the current market.

Thanks to everyone who has shown interest and contributed to the list.  Love this community.

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## Spruce

> No one is stopping anyone from asking a high price for their mando builds.


Keep in mind that the current "high" prices paid for instruments by certain makers were instituted by _us_, and not by the makers...    :Wink: 




> You can move John Paganoni back out of the "deceased section".  I just received an email from him.  I'm happy to report that he is alive and well.  He is just not currently building mandolins.


Didn't Mark Twain build some mandos back in the day?   :Wink:

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## Charles E.

You could add Wayne Henderson to that list and possibly Paul Duff.

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## Bill Snyder

So why wasn't Michael Lewis added to the list? I pointed him out in one of the first few posts.

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## dschonbrun

Hey Bill, I did some research and Michael's price for an F5 is $9,000.  He does list an "Archive Loar" model for $15,000 but I'm not able to find samples in the market to verify sales.  He does get over 10K for guitars... but this list was meant to focus on that level for Mandolin family instruments.  I would put him in the same group as Mowry and Brock... right on the bubble.

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## dschonbrun

Paul Duff's A4 is $5,000 and F5 is $9,000... he's another one on the bubble.  I love his work, but am trying to be consistent here.

Wayne Henderson... agree, I see sales of $10,000 - $14,000 for recent F5's.  I'll add him to the next list.

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## Ron McMillan

All of which only makes me even more convinced that one of *the* screaming bargains in the market must be Tom Ellis's A5 at about $6k. The strap-hanger fashion scroll skews the market to an astonishing degree.

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DataNick, 

Ivan Kelsall

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## Cornelius Morris

> Updated again
> 
> John Monteleone - $45,000
> Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
> Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
> Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
> Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
> Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
> Tom Ellis - $12,000 - 14,000
> ...


So a new Jamie Wiens (whose #35 I own; http://www.mandolinarchive.com/wiens/serial/35) is a pretty good bargain at these prices:  http://wiensmandolins.com/

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## Ivan Kelsall

I have to agree 100 % with Ron McMillan. Most of us would agree that a good "A" style can sound _as good as_ an equivalent "F" style. I'm fortunate enough to own an Ellis "A" style which i'd put up against any mandolin on the planet in the 'tone stakes'.

  I simply can _not_ believe that a Gil. or a Dude. or a Monte etc. can be worth 5 x the price for the 'sound' produced. I am NOT saying that they are not superb mandolins (Chris Thile's Dude. is one of the finest sounding mandolins i've heard to date),but so is my Ellis !.

    It's not for me to argue about builder's pricing policies,if you want a new Gil. / Dude. / Monte. etc,you pay the asking price or,buy 'used'. Having said that,wasn't it the case of owners selling their 'used' Gils. at much higher prices than Steve Gilchrist was selling them for 'new', that caused SG to raise his prices ?. I can see his point !,
                                                                                                           Ivan :Wink:

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DataNick

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## Chris Daniels

Rolfe Gerhardt lists a new Phoenix Ultra at $10,500. And that's without one o' them fancy strap holders.

C.

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## HoGo

Whenever I see such list I must think about my "hero" builders and their contribution and would not just make a list with money as the main factor...
For me there is the first row of makers that consists of Gilchrist, Kemnitzer (Nuggett) and Monteleone these are true legends because their long time hard work and consistent results and even though I may not like everything they did, they doubtlessly deserve being the "top crop" and the prices of their work reflect this.
Then there is category of makers whose prices sky-rocketed up there partly due to 'big name' endorsee like Thile, Grisman, Steffey, Benson etc. (Dudenbostel, Giacomel, McLanahan, perhaps Daley before he quit) 
Then there is category of the makers without very noticeable player connection who barely got over the 10k mark or close (like McRostie, Heiden, Collings, Ellis, Smart, Kimble, Lewis, etc. or Henderson -his guitars instead of endorsee drive the prices of mandolins up)
And then there is category of Makers who just started really high (Wiens comes to mind with his campaign, or the discussed Stadler at Carter's).
And then there is whole lot of other equally great builders who would deserve as much praise as the above mentioned but they just don't charge the price...

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DataNick

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## red7flag

I feel blessed to have played most on that list.  I can say that when I have blind A/Bed some of them, my result changed the next day when in a different playing mood.  Past a certain point, I feel that how a person compares two mandolin is more a matter personal taste and picking style.  Once in a while I have played an instrument that just had IT.  What ever IT is.  I will list them.  One (of many played) Loar,  one Red Diamond, Brentrup H4, two Gils one a mandola (of many played), one Stanley, one Sobell.  These were instruments that simply glistened when played, even by me.

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## jesserules

It's great to see gifted, hardworking craftspeople rewarded for the years of study and experience and dedication they put into the works of art they produce.

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Spruce

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## McIrish

I've played a few of the big ticket builds. Some were good and some were great. But in the end, tonality is a pretty individual sort of thing. We all hear slightly different and have differing tastes on what constitutes a good sound. When I was looking at mandolins to buy last year, I played everything I could get my hands on while touring. I didn't end up with anything over $10k, but it really was good to compare and finally pick the one that sounded like "I" wanted a mandolin to sound. I'm very happy with what I have but I'd still plan on playing everything I find; just to know what the tonal possibilities are. I honestly don't think anything is going to sound significantly better than what I have but it's fun to window shop anyway. (I'm sure my wife would not agree with that)

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## Mandobar

> Rolfe Gerhardt lists a new Phoenix Ultra at $10,500. And that's without one o' them fancy strap holders.
> 
> C.


Rolf is no longer building.  His former apprentice has taken over Phoenix.  That said, he'd bend the prices quite a bit if you bought directly from him.  So, asking and selling are a different thing.  Anyone can list their prices at 12k or 20k, but how many are really pocketing those amounts?

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## dschonbrun

Looks like I need to add Daley and Sobell to the 2nd part of the list.  Good call outs.

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## RJMFry

> Looks like I need to add Daley and Sobell to the 2nd part of the list.  Good call outs.


Actually, Stefan is still building mandolins (and I'm pretty sure he's not dead [eek!]). I'm on the docket for a mandolin from him come August. He _has_ started focusing more on his guitars, but he still builds mandolins every now and again. It's just his larger mando-family instruments that have been missing as of late, though I'm hoping to high heaven that I can convince him to take a swing at another bouzouki.

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## dhergert

As an outsider (from being able to afford this price group) I'd observe that there are a lot of important names that are "on the bubble", plus there are questions about actual price verification with some of the names that are actually on the list...  

As such, would it be worth it to add another category that would include the names that are say, over $7.5K but under $10K?  

Or, is there magic to the $10K number?  (I know you have to set somewhere to start.)

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J.Albert

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## JeffD

Dead people make very few mandolins, it turns out.

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Timbofood

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## Mike Floorstand

I didn't see my name on the list - I charge $60K for my entry level model.

A non-refundable 50% deposit secures a place on my 40-year waiting list.

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## sprucetop1

I can't give mine away......

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## Clinton Johnson

> I can't give mine away......


 :Laughing:  I feel your pain brother! Lol

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## banjoboy

I feel like a broken record...but....I'd put Gail Hester's mandolins up against anything on the list. She just doesn't charge as much as the other builders, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. She doesn't produce a ton of mandolins each year, and at present, I'm not aware of any famous mando players who use her mandolins, although I know Adam Tanner (not that he's not famous) has one of her instruments. But I'm sure if you talk with Adam Steffey, David Grisman, or Jesse Brock, they would give Gail's instruments high marks. I also would put Stan Miller's name on the list as well. You don't hear much about Stan, but he builds great instruments and continues to fly under the radar.

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DataNick, 

FLATROCK HILL, 

sgarrity

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## dschonbrun

> As an outsider (from being able to afford this price group) I'd observe that there are a lot of important names that are "on the bubble", plus there are questions about actual price verification with some of the names that are actually on the list...  
> 
> As such, would it be worth it to add another category that would include the names that are say, over $7.5K but under $10K?  
> 
> Or, is there magic to the $10K number?  (I know you have to set somewhere to start.)


Hey Don, the 10K was an arbitrary starting point.  I'm not stuck on it by any means.  If it's helpful to add a group of great makers on the bubble... say 7K-11K, I can certainly do that.

David

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## dhergert

I'd hate to change the course of this thread if no one else feels that way...  Clearly $10K has meaning to you and to the majority of people suggesting builders' names; even if $10K is arbitrary, it is a good starting point.  Let's see if anyone else feels a change would help.

Btw, even though I am not in this market, it is threads like this one that provide extremely valuable education.  Thank you!

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DataNick

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## nkforster

These threads are always interesting. The positions folk take often come to who does, and who does not understand "supply and demand" along with "what the market will support." It's these two factors which dictate what work sells for if it sells. This price may or may not be indicitive of quality. A good example is Sobell - generally considered "the best" of the "Celtic mandolin" makers. But the market currently isn't large enough to support a $10,000 price tag. Were more folk interested in buying them, the price would rise. Supply and demand. 

Nigel
www.theluthierblog.com

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## fscotte

Let us digress just for a minute.  Forget names, brands, etc..  What if you found a mando that was stellar in sound, the best tone you've ever heard, angels sang when you struck a note, the devil weeped, and God wrote a lullaby in your honor... The workmanship top notch, miters came together in supreme perfection, deep quilted maple so 3D that you reached up to take off your 3D glasses that aren't there, a neck as smooth as oil on glass, the most beautiful looking and sounding mandolin as you had ever seen or played.  The only thing, the peghead said something boring from a maker you've never heard of.

Would you pay $20,000 for it?  No. Because we don't pay that premium for sound and looks, regardless how much people pretend to say that tone is their #1 priority, it isn't.  People want the name on the peghead and all the history behind it.  They want the inherent value of something they know will hold its value.  When these builders are done building, there will be no more.  Sounding and looking good is just a bonus.

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Tom Haywood

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## Mandobar

Absolutely, fscotte.  I have played some pretty pricey mandolins that left me flat.  We sometimes get wrapped up in "drinking the koolaid", and forget what it's all about, playing and making music.

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DataNick

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## Ivan Kelsall

From fscotte - _"........... the most beautiful looking and sounding mandolin as you had ever seen or played."_. If i found exactly that,i wouldn't give a hoot regarding who's name was on the headstock & if i had the cash for it,i'd buy it.

   I fully understand that folk 'want the name' on the headstock,but lots of folk buy instruments built by makers who haven't yet made their name - Lynn Dudenbostel / Steve Gilchrist / Michael Heiden & Tom Ellis didn't ''start off famous'',they got that way because their instruments are stellar !. I can almost imagine the scenario you paint, regarding the first guy to buy a Gilchrist -  ''Steve who ? '' . Many years later & we ALL know ''Steve who'' !!!, :Grin: 
                                                                                          Ivan :Wink:

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## Jim Garber

> And here's a short list of maker's that are deceased, but continue to bring high prices.  Again, happy to get input here from others.
> 
> Lloyd Loar Signed Gibson F5 - $75,000 - 200,000
> D'Angelico - $20,000 - 35,000
> D'Aquisto - $15,000 - 25,000
> John Zeidler (Carrara) - $18,000 - 25,000





> Cool list!  The mention of D'Angelico makes me wonder what the market might have been had the bluegrassers embraced the D'Angelico mandolins.........


I have played quite a few D'Angelico mandolins tho I have never seen one priced at $35k. There was a time a few years ago when Mandolin Brothers had 4 or 5 of them and I played them all including the 12-string that Andy Statman demoed on a video. Frankly I don't think D'Angelico was up to the level on his mandolins that he was respected for his guitars and I think the prices reflect that.

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Jeff Mando

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## Mandoplumb

Buying the great one of a kind mandolin by unknown mandolin for $20000 wouldn't happen for the most part because " when I sold I couldn't get anywhere close to that". We have been programed to think of value not as what I want or like but what can I sell it for. I am a retired plumber and I don't know of the times someone has told me they have to have a whirlpool tub, not be cause they use it, but becuase you can't sell a house on this price range with out it. Think about it, they have to have it knowing they won't use it so they can sell it to someone that won't use it. That's the American way!  To get back to the original post, I've never seen a mandolin I would give $20000 dollars for, it can't be 10 times better than my Dearstone, but if  I did see one that was and could possibly swing the cash I would buy it no matter what the name because if it's that good I'm not worried about what it would bring       'cause I ain't gonna sell it.

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Ivan Kelsall, 

Tom Haywood

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## Jeff Mando

The question was asked, basically, where do they come up with these prices/price ranges?  I don't know if it applies to mandolins, but 15 or so years ago the electric guitar market was flooded with boutique makers who basically came out of nowhere and started running full-page color ads in the guitar magazines.  I think full-page color ads would put most small builders out of business, so they must have had money behind them, from somewhere.  They all were similar in appearance, basically looking like a PRS on steroids, super flamey tops, wooden binding, wild colors, and selling the idea of hand craftsmanship.  And prices that were higher than PRS, Gibson, and Fender.  They were playing upon the same market that PRS focused on, new guitars that appealed to vintage buyers (who had a lot of disposable income).  Nothing wrong with making a new product and trying to market it, mind you.  I was working at a vintage guitar shop at the time, and while I would see these ads and say, "huh?" and turn the page, customers would ask me, "Hey Jeff, have you ever played a so and so?"  So, advertising works, as they say.  A lot of customers love the idea they can pick up the phone and talk directly to the maker who will build a guitar just for them, to their specs, from start to finish.

Anyway, I find this an interesting parallel. Now, obviously, these makers did not "come out of nowhere" as it takes years to learn the craft.  My point is how do you justify boutique prices with no track record or past sales to speak of?  Unless you just take a leap of faith, as a builder, and say "I can't work for less!"  Then, there is the question of resale, should the buyer decide to unload it......

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## nkforster

> Dead people make very few mandolins, it turns out.


Yet they have been known to make a remarkable number of Cremonese violins. The late Leo Fender and his dead workers have made a fair amount of mid 50's instruments since his death. Once the market becomes valuable enough the dead will also start making mandolins too. Who knows, Loar may have already made a couple!

Nigel

www.theluthierblog.com

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derbex

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## Jeff Mando

I say if dead people can still vote, they can still make mandolins!  :Laughing:

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## Spruce

> Yet they have been known to make a remarkable number of Cremonese violins. The late Leo Fender and his dead workers have made a fair amount of mid 50's instruments since his death. Once the market becomes valuable enough the dead will also start making mandolins too. Who knows, Loar may have already made a couple!


I'm actually quite surprised that copyists haven't targeted certain modern makers who are commanding top dollar.
Their work is a whole lot easier to successfully replicate than say, a Loar...

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j. condino

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## Jeff Mando

> I'm actually quite surprised that copyists haven't targeted certain modern makers who are commanding top dollar.
> Their work is a whole lot easier to successfully replicate than say, a Loar...


But couldn't a "copy" be verified with a simple phone call or email to the modern maker, if he or she was still alive?

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## Mandolin Cafe

> For many of us, a top level mandolin is something we spend years or even a lifetime saving and yearning for.  Here's a short list of the global individual luthiers, producing in small quantities, who are currently getting 10K or more for their new top level mandolins and who have established themselves as producing instruments of consistently high quality.  Please feel free to add any that I may have missed.
> 
> John Monteleone - $45,000
> Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) - $25,000 - 30,000
> Steve Gilchrist - $22,000 - 25,000
> Lynn Dudenbostel - $22,000 - 25,000
> Don Macrostie (Red Diamond) - $15,000 - 20,000
> Hans Brentrup (just stopped mfg.) - $15,000 - 20,000
> Michael Heiden - $17,000 - 20,000
> ...


Small problem. Unless you were the actual buyer or seller and you're telling the truth, this is all guesswork. The rest is hearsay. Some of the pricing here is fuzzy. Some wildly inaccurate. But it does reduce the building community to a bunch of numbers. I think they deserve better. 

Asking and receiving are apples and oranges. If someone pays one wildly high or low price, is that their market price now? How do we know it's accurate? If builder John Doe puts on his web site he sold one for $40K does he rise near the top?

Problems with this:

I know for a fact an instrument from a well known current builder was sold and the buyer and seller agreed on a public price they leaked to benefit the builder. Problem: the real selling price was $10,000 below the real price, but it's still bantered about as fact to this day. Thank you. Yes, I did see the check. It was a long time ago.

That John Monteleone asks $45K for a new mandolin is pretty much widely known as the price a luthier sets when he no longer wants to build one--unless someone is really willing to pay that much. Power to him if he does, but John Monteleone is no longer someone that needs to build mandolins for a living. He's a well known and respected guitar builder that could build a mandolin if he desired.

About ten years ago I was selling a bunch of stuff on April Fool's day on the Classifieds and before I hit send I posted my #159 Nugget Deluxe as for sale for $40K and then wrote SOLD after it as a joke. I drove to Kansas City about 45 minutes away, came home about 8 hours later and had 100+ emails. Many congratulating me, some cursing me and using words I can't post here, but all believers. Mike Kemnitzer said he spent the entire day in a duck blind hunting and thinking I was a real ####. We had a good laugh about it later.

Not sure what's being accomplished here but I've given my two cents and will now slink away and keep my mouth closed. Maybe.

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dang, 

Doug Freeman, 

Mandobar, 

mrmando

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## Mandolin Cafe

Yea, that didn't last long.

Here's one that's not listed, and built by people still alive (not confirmed) vs. the early 1920s Gibsons.  Gibson's 120th Anniversary Mandolin. Only $20K apiece, though they still list on their web site as you can get all three for $60K. There's some real marketing genius. Also listed for sale at Guitar Center, Musician's Friend and amazon (free shipping). Oh and also available from Woodwind & Brasswind (in stock they say)

But wait, here's a new one for just over $10K on Reverb they say is brand new. From Reverb's definition of Brand New: _These would be products that are in the box as received from the manufacturer which come with the original warranty. Only authorized dealers are permitted to sell an item as Brand New._

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## HoGo

> Small problem. Unless you were the actual buyer or seller and you're telling the truth, this is all guesswork. The rest is hearsay. Some of the pricing here is fuzzy. Some wildly inaccurate. But it does reduce the building community to a bunch of numbers. I think they deserve better. 
> 
> Asking and receiving are apples and oranges. If someone pays one wildly high or low price, is that their market price now? How do we know it's accurate? If builder John Doe puts on his web site he sold one for $40K does he rise near the top?


Excellent point Scott.
I've been around MC and internet for two decades and as aspiring builder I've watched regularly virtually all mandolin builder pages around world (I still have thousands of pictures downloaded from their sites) and also good portion of violin makers and later guitar makers. Of course I knew pricing of most of them and saw many of the rises in pricing. Only after many years I realized that in many cases there was noticeable pressure on the public image by various folks (very likely not very independent from the maker - you can call it marketing) that they are so and so good and you should buy before the prices will go even higher etc. I had suspition that some of the sales on public pages were fake just to show up and justify the higher asking price. 
That's why I tend to divide makers according to their history. Paying hefty price to newcomer just because the instruments is nice or sounds nice or some known player used one on his latest show is risky, the bubble may burst and inflated pricing will drop back down. For that price if I look elsewhere I can get great instrument from time proven reputable builder and will have ALL bases covered.
Now I can add ane more builder to the 10k+ category... Brunkalla just came to mind... Weird pricing IMO. Mandolin for 15k while violin goes for 5k.

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DataNick

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## JeffD

> but if  I did see one that was and could possibly swing the cash I would buy it no matter what the name because if it's that good I'm not worried about what it would bring       'cause I ain't gonna sell it.


Yes.

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## JeffD

> Let us digress just for a minute.  Forget names, brands, etc..  What if you found a mando that was stellar in sound, the best tone you've ever heard, angels sang when you struck a note, the devil weeped, and God wrote a lullaby in your honor... The workmanship top notch, miters came together in supreme perfection, deep quilted maple so 3D that you reached up to take off your 3D glasses that aren't there, a neck as smooth as oil on glass, the most beautiful looking and sounding mandolin as you had ever seen or played.  The only thing, the peghead said something boring from a maker you've never heard of.
> 
> Would you pay $20,000 for it?


Or whatever top dollar means to you. $20,000 is an amount I could not justify for a mandolin. But I get what you are saying, and it is a very interesting question. 




> No. Because we don't pay that premium for sound and looks, regardless how much people pretend to say that tone is their #1 priority, it isn't.  People want the name on the peghead and all the history behind it.  They want the inherent value of something they know will hold its value.


I am not sure. I think it often boils down to not trusting your own judgment and making what others think matter. 

I think if you can pretty much play an instrument and see and feel that it is great with enough confidence that the opinions of others are of no concern, and you can afford it, you would go for it. But that confidence only comes with a ton of experience. 

Also there is the cognitive dissonance - how could a mandolin this extraordinary be made by a someone I have never heard of? Not that I have heard of everyone, but a mandolin this good should have captured the attention of the mandolin world. So my trepidations might be along the "what's the catch" line of thinking.

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## Spruce

> 


Gawd, I'd _love_ to take a hacksaw to _that_ Florida...    :Wink:

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dang, 

j. condino

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## pops1

> Gawd, I'd _love_ to take a hacksaw to _that_ Florida...


A black magic marker would do nicely.

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## mrmando

> If builder John Doe puts on his web site he sold one for $40K does he rise near the top?


No list of high-dollar builders is complete without the fabulous John L. Williams! 
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...he-classifieds

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## Timbofood

I said it once, I'll say it again:
 "They will only bring as much as the buyer is willing to pay."
Many valid points here, small boutique builders have spent countless hours learning their craft, some guys seem to be able to "pound out" decent products. Some never will quite "get it" and then, there are builders who simply have the time and talent to make as many as they feel inclined. For me anymore, sadly, they will not be within my reach. I have been lucky enough to have played some very fine examples from several of the levels, mentioned above, all out of reach and all interesting, some desirable some, not so much. If I was a situation which would make owning one feasible, the "search list" for me would be pretty small. But, I'm repeating myself.

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## Mandolin Cafe

> No list of high-dollar builders is complete without the fabulous John L. Williams! 
> http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...he-classifieds


Why yes, in fact we _do_ have that in backup from April, 2013. For your viewing pleasure, one of the top three mandolin builders by price in the world. For now.

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## mrmando

You could definitely add Paul Bigsby to the deceased list. 

Both of the recent Bigsby mandolin finds, the 10-string and the 5-string, have now sold. I don't know what the final prices were, but the asking prices were in the Monteleone range.

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## Ivan Kelsall

I'd bet even the builders of the over-ornate Asian mandolins had a snigger at that Gibson. How to make a 'potentially' lovely instrument into a complete travesty IMHO,
                                                         Ivan

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## Mandolin Architect

Hey man! I havnt been on the cafe in over 6 months and I just seen this thread  :Smile:  Yes, as Karl Hoyt mentioned I have a much larger shop now and I also have 9 pro players playing my mandolins.....
and no.... none of them were free. I made a decision a long time ago that I would never make free mandolins. I have another two batches coming out here real soon. The first will be finished this week :Smile:

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Bernie Daniel, 

DataNick, 

Ivan Kelsall

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## Doug Freeman

> Some of the pricing here is fuzzy. Some wildly inaccurate. But it does reduce the building community to a bunch of numbers. I think they deserve better.


Agreed. This thread gave me the creeps from post one. Still, I've looked back in on it, kind of like a rubber neck driver gawking at a fatal wreck on the highway.

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## lowtone2

Old thread, but I wonder where does Campanella sit on this list? I’ve never seen a price but assume they are not inexpensive.

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## yankees1

> I can name (but won't...) at LEAST 10 builders who don't get that kind of scratch for their instruments but whose work is every bit as good as any of the above mentioned builders....


I absolutely agree ! BUT, I will name one ! Max Girouard ! I have played half of your list at Grhun's and I would take a Girouard over any that I played.

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ccravens

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## Aaron Woods

Can you imagine if we all watched and contributed instrument reviews as accurate and beautiful as what the FBJ did on JR's mandolin? 

I've heard him play 6' away (pre-social distancing) and the video is accurate. 

Not that looking at mandolins with outrageous woods and inlays isn't fun. 

Perhaps it would be better if we reflected on tonal character with a video that used proper microphones operated by sound technicians..

This would benefit everyone that wants to know more than the level of binding, inlay, Florida, case, pick etc. 

What is it? What bracing and how exactly does it change the tone? What did it sound like? Soul?

Remember that Sharon Gilchrist peghead video that she references swapping the fingerboard put her instrument back to "new" and only started to return after six months of playing? #thehorror

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pheffernan

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## Doug Freeman

Off topic, but it was nice to watch that Reischman video again. In one closeup (2:17-2:22, and only at that point) it appears he has the G and D courses strung in octaves. Is that a thing?

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## MontanaMatt

> Off topic, but it was nice to watch that Reischman video again. In one closeup (2:17-2:22, and only at that point) it appears he has the G and D courses strung in octaves. Is that a thing?


Wow, I’ve not seen that on regular f...perhaps it’s a editing error of a different instrument? I’ve seen that on octaves though.

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## pops1

On any of the other closeup shots of the mandolin and him playing it they are not octaves. I think that is a random shot from somewhere???

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## Marty Jacobson

> Off topic, but it was nice to watch that Reischman video again. In one closeup (2:17-2:22, and only at that point) it appears he has the G and D courses strung in octaves. Is that a thing?


Look at the intonation.. that's an octave mandolin/bouzouki. Nice catch, though.

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