# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  New Millennium Acoustic Design (NewMAD)

## Scott Tichenor

Some information that came my way today I thought would be of interest and worth sharing. Peter Mix, formerly of Rigel Instruments has formed a company taking the name New Millennium Acoustic Design, a builder of carbon fiber mandolins. The images that follow are the initial moulds. I apologize for not knowing more about these but Peter and I have played phone tag today and his last message said to post these if I wished as I'd mailed him that request. Guessing the first three images are the mould made by Will Kimble. The remaining images are the moulds made by the company that will actually perform the process of shaping the instrument by whatever process they use.

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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Glassweb

Absolutely fascinating! It seems like there's a brave new world in the "mix". Best of luck to all involved. Thanks for the posts Scott.

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## gwalt

Is this a in the garage type venture? Or are they looking for investers? It might be kind of fun to get a little mandolin cafe members, grassroots kind of thing going.

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## glauber

No folk art!

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## Lane Pryce

This will be nice to follow. An all weather mandolin that doubles as body armor.   

Synthetic materials have served Ovation well. Pete may be on to something here.  Lp

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## fretmasher

Rats. My MAS has been in remission for over a month now. If I can get a parrot painted on the back, I'll send in my $500.

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## Will Kimble

I believe these are technically not the molds, but the pattern being prepped to create the molds. #

Thanks for the interest and support,
Will Kimble

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## jmcgann

This is very exciting, a meeting of some great mando minds looking forward into the future!

The MSA company makes carbon fiber pedal steel guitars. I played one last year- lightweight and sounded warm and wonderful. 

These molds look classic, and I'm excited to play and hear and feel them when they are released.

Very best of luck to Peter, Will and the other explorers!

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## Hal Loflin

Will...Any idea as to what the costs will be?

Very interested...Thanks, Hal

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## floyd26

can't wait to hear'em and see'm strung up. I'm an old school type of guy, but it sure would be nice to throw your mando across the room on those frustrating days, when your just not playing up to par.

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## siren_20

Like everyone I'm eager to see/hear/play the finished product... very neat stuff. I'm also very interested to see how these will sound plugged in. I know Rigel had a great internal piezo setup to begin with, and since carbon fiber guitars with built-in piezos have a good reputation (or so I've heard), the combination of the two is pretty enticing.

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## mikeo2

This is very exciting! I can't wait to see a finished product.

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## Dale Ludewig

Fascinating. It almost looks like the prototype body forms are Photoshopped out of Rhino3D. Or milled similarly. I'm really interested in how this will work out. Best of luck to all involved.

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## Antlurz

I wonder if the necks will be hollow?

Ron

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## Will Kimble

Hi Dale and friends,

The patterns are carved out of solid mahogany. #I carved a solid rim, then carved top and back plates as usual with no graduation on the inside. #I carved a neck and cut a dovetail as usual, then glued the neck in and the back on. #I made a fingerboard and clamped it to the neck with locating pins and carved the neck to match the fingerboard. #

My understanding is that the pattern will generate three carbon fiber pieces: #1) back, sides, neck #2) top #3) a long narrow piece that will serve as the face of the headstock, the gluing surface for the fingerboard, and the fingerboard extension. #The fingerboard will be made of ebony and bound in a traditional manner. #

The pictures of the grey patterns on the white boards are still the same mahogany patterns that I built, except they have been sprayed with some type of primer to fill the pores of the mahogany and make it easier for the molds to release from the pattern. # #

I will try to answer a few other questions - it is my understanding that the necks will be hollow, but the neck cavity will be closed off from the body cavity. #

These mandolins will come with a built-in pickup as standard equipment, just as the Rigels did. #But I believe these pickups will be MUCH better - I am reluctant to spill the beans here and will defer to Peter Mix for more details about the pickup. #I will also defer to Peter for any information about pricing. #

I will be happy to answer any more questions about the process, but please understand my expertise is in building mandolins out of wood. #My job was to make it easy for Peter's team - who are already building violins, violas and cellos out of carbon fiber - to make a mandolin out of carbon fiber. #I can provide more insight than most, but am still pretty limited. #

Have I mentioned how excited I am to hear one of these new mandolins? #

Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

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## groveland

Are Octave Mandos/Bouzoukis in the plans?

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## fwoompf

Same question! I'd love to own a CF Octave. 

Also, when these come out, you guys should do some publicity on Youtube by staging some really funny situations that cause the instruments to be thrown, dropped, kicked, etc, and then you recover them and show that it's not damaged.

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## DryBones

The most important question.... can I get a lefty?

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## Peter Mix

The grey pattern in the photos is indeed Will's mahogany A5 prepped for overlaying the mold material. That process is well underway and now we're just a couple of weeks away from the prototype.

It's going to be extremely beautiful and should sound fabulous if the bowed instruments are anything to judge by and I believe they are.

We'll be using the new Schertler piezo, an internally-mounted version of the Dyn-M, in these instruments as I believe they are the finest on the market. This will push our price a bit higher, but the goal is to produce a world-class performance instrument that has a superb acoustic voice and can be plugged in as needed.

The necks of these instruments are hollow, but the neck/body joint is sealed to prevent the hollow neck from acting as a secondary sound chamber. 

We now anticipate a retail price of about $3500, but do bear in mind that no one has done this before and we're learning as we go. We'll be presenting them to the music world at the NAMM show in Anaheim CA in January. If you plan to attend, you'll find us at the Schertler booth. Please stop by and try them out. I want to know what players think.

I've been immersed in the world of mandolins for most of my life and I am as excited as a child on Christmas eve. I love fine carved mandolins- some might even say I am obsessed by them ;-) The carbon fiber version will be nothing short of wonderful. The material is so resonant
and so strikingly beautiful that it provides the means by which to build a great and gorgeous instrument that is virtually impervious to humidity and heat. 

The instrument will be called the Mix A5. Will already has his name on the headstocks of many wondrous mandolins and my name is so much shorter that it fits neatly on a headstock and a tailpiece cover. It's very hard to wait for the prototype after so much time in planning and designing, but it will be here soon.

Thanks so much for your interest. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or comments.
 # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Peter Mix

New Millennium Acoustic Design
978 Oakes Road
Waterville VT 05492
802-644-5607
newmad@wildblue.net

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## Peter Mix

More answers to pertinent questions: yes, OM's, mandolas and more are in our plans. A left-handed version of the Mix A5 will be available almost immediately once production begins.
               cheers, Peter

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## PhilGE

I imagine this is kind of like watching the building of a Ferrari prototype. For me, it's way out of reality to consider owning one, but it's incredibly fascinating to watch and fantasize about possibilities.

-Phil

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## Hal Loflin

Peter:

Are ther future plans to build an F style? I know you are in the early startup stages but have you discussed building an F style eventially? Would there be any problems with the scroll on a composite mandolin?

Thanks, Hal

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## Peter Mix

Hi Hal,
  When I first began to explore carbon fiber mandolin-building, F5's were where I wanted to start. I quickly learned that we have to begin with a less complicated body geometry in order to surmount a host of construction challenges before we can begin the F5, but we're well on the way. Some of what we've developed for the A5 will make the F5 possible, though the big challenges are the scrolls and the points.

My hope is to raise the capital to develop the F5 once we've proved the A5. This is a very costly undertaking and the F5 will be even more so, but no one said it would be easy or inexpensive. I firmly believe that we'll produce great instruments in the process.
             cheers, Peter

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## Hal Loflin

Thanks Peter...That is sort of what I figured (scroll and point problems). Still...the A style will be great! Can't wait to read the reviews. I'm already starting to save up...

good luck...Hal

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## mandroid

The top rim would be a bit wider than the back one , wouldn't It?#
mould release shape seems to favor Cones, even ever so slightly, over Cylanders in getting parts out of layup molds ,as I found in Fibreglass & metal [sand] casting, at least.

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## PaulD

Very Cool! Thanks Scott, Will, and Peter for sharing the information, and best of luck on your new business venture.

pd

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## Peter Mix

We've gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to design an A5 that looks and feels like a great A5 and is not merely a translation. 
 # I'll hope to post more photos soon....
 # # # # # # # # # # # #cheers, Peter

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## glauber

> The instrument will be called the Mix A5.


Bummer. I was hoping for MAD (for Millenium Acoustic Design).  

Best of luck!

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## thistle3585

Peter,
Are these going to be vacum formed from pre-impregnated sheets or layed up as individual layers? I am guessing based on the model that you will be using a female mould. Will the top be bound? 

Andrew

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## JeffD

Does the carbon fiber technology allow you to make the material with custom properties? Can you, for example, adjust the vibratory modes of the top by placement of the fiber, so as to emphasize a certain sound?

It is a brave new world.

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## Spruce

> _"It is a brave new world. "_


Guess I better learn to flip burgers....

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## mandolooter

hahahahaha! great line Bruce! I highly doubt it tho...wood has lots of desirable qualities too, and my underwater mando needs are minor...for now...???

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## Peter Mix

I have a sneaking suspicion that my email replies are not getting to the folks who've contacted me about the A5 and I'd hate to have anyone think I'm ignoring them. If you emailed me directly and didn't receive a reply, please call me if you'd like at 802-644-5607. We recently installed satelite internet access and it's not quite all that it's cracked up to be. We receive email, but no one seems to receive our replies...
 #The prototype is due within a couple of weeks and will then go through some close scrutiny to see if we have produced what we are aiming for. We may need to make minor modifications and build a couple of additional prototypes, but production will begin as soon as we've dialed in the voice by way of the bracing and sound-holes. We should be able to deliver the first instruments in January 07 and there still a few available in the first run.
 # If you'd like to reserve a spot on the list, all we need is a modest refundable deposit. Just call me at the number above. This is an instrument whose time has come!

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## Antlurz

Will there be any attempt to make it look like wood?

If not, what sort of appearnce and finish will it have?

Ron

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## Peter Mix

Carbon fiber can be finished much as maple and spruce can be with sunbursts and solid colors. I think carbon fiber is so lovely on its own that we'll begin by offering clear finishes initially and adding options fairly quickly. I'm working with the same finish wizard, Larry Sweeney, who created all of Rigel's finishes in the past 5 years, so you know they're going to look wonderful.

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## Lee Callicutt

Only problem is, Maccaferri beat you to the punch fifty some years ago! Just kidding, I know polystyrene is a long way from carbon fiber, though it does make a hell of a bowling ball.

Peter, you are to be commended and encouraged for this brave new venture.

Personally, I like the look of raw carbon fiber.

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## Dale Ludewig

I think it's going to be more like the modern graphite flyrods, of which I'm a huge fan. I'm sure a lot of work that can't even be talked about has gone into the acoustics. Will the builders of wood instruments now become the equivalent of bamboo flyrod makers? I doubt that, but I am looking forward to the first models being available.

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## Bob Denton

I play a Composite Acoustics and had the pleasure of a factory tour last Monday. I am not unfamilier with carbon layups but I did find the process of turning a plastic with a few pieces of ugly fabric, into a supurb sounding guitar.

They had a 5 year learning curve. I returned a guitar I had recently purchased due to some minor imperfections in the layup, for one that was perfect. They commented that they have leand a lot even in the few months since my former guitar was made.

CA spends a vast amount of time finishing the instruments (sanding, filling, spraying and polishing. I was told that if they could elimate all that work, they could halve the price.

The beauty of carbon is that it can really open up possibilities since it doesn't require bracing and doesn't move.

I tuned my guitar in Lafayette, LA and took it out of the case for a session last night in San Jose, and it was still in tune. It rode in a car from Lafayette to Las Cruces, NM then to El Paso and gate checked to Houston , then to San Jose.

Good luck with this project!

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## Michael Lewis

Peter Mix, you bringing some of these to NAMM? Hope to see you there. Come by the Luthier's Consortium and pick some.

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## Peter Mix

I bought one of those dandy little Maccaferri guitars when MandoBros first unearthed them 30 years ago and loved it. It was a big inspiration in its way. 
NewMAD's Mix A5 is all carbon fiber except for the ebony bridge and fingerboard. It's arched top requires bracing very much like a carved mandolin. 
Michael, I will be at NAMM with a couple of mandolins at the Schertler booth, #1412. It'll be a pleasure to see you.

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## Ward Elliott

Just want to wish you the best of luck with this new project Peter, it is very exciting stuff! We just may be looking at the future of mandolin making!

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## Peter Mix

Thanks, Ward! You're very kind. I don't expect carbon fiber instruments to ever replace great carved-wood instruments, but it is a great thing that alternative materials are available for those times when you don't want to risk an irreplaceable instrument when traveling or performing.

My email problems seem to have been solved, so feel free to email me at info@new-mad.com
 # # # # # # # # # # #cheers, Peter

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## Rick Turner

Having been involved in carbon fiber instrument parts making for thirty years now (I got the first patent on hollow graphite necks), I can tell you that there's a lot to specific fiber directional layup as well as with what exact formulae you use for the matrix. Graphite composites are like wood that you can design yourself.

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## Lee Callicutt

> I bought one of those dandy little Maccaferri guitars when MandoBros first unearthed them 30 years ago and loved it. It was a big inspiration in its way.


Yeah, they are cool from an engineering perspective. I was especially impressed with the peghead enclosed gearing for the banjo styled tuners and the way you can raise or lower the action without it going out of tune.

Again, all the best of luck in your venture.

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## trevor

Peter,
Sounds great, any chance of an oval hole A4?

BTW, I just got my hands on one of the two I-110s, hasn't arrived yet, cant wait.

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## Peter Mix

Greetings Trevor!
  Yes, an A4 is in the works and we plan to bring at least one of each to the NAMM show in January. Will we have the pleasure of your company there?
             regards, Peter

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## trevor

Peter,
Yes/No!
I would love to come, I haven't been for the last two years, but I have been stacking up my flying miles and polution quota recently with a trip to see friends in China, so not sure, 'tis a long way for a couple of days...

Might be worth the trip just to see your new mandos.

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## Peter Mix

With any luck, we'll have the prototype A5 in our hands a week from today. There will be more to do at that point, but we'll know a great deal once the first instrument is complete. The second instrument will be an ovalhole. I'll post more information and photos as soon as possible.
This is extremely exciting!
           cheers, Peter

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## fwoompf

We can't wait to see them! Post some sound samples when you get it, too!

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## Jim Garber

A friend just emailed me with link to an article he wrote to come out in tomorrow's NY Times Science Section about new directions in instrument making. Carbon fiber is mentioned. Article here.

Jim

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## Glassweb

Hi Peter... just my 2 cents here, but since you're doing something radically different here why not go for a non-trad design? Given the material, I would think that there must be plenty of potential for creating something new that would be visually arresting as well as sonically advanced. Guess that might be a bit much at this stage though... bonne chance!

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## Peter Mix

Design-wise, the sky is the limit, I suppose, but I'm not trying to re-invent the mandolin. I love A's and F's and believe that the sound chambers of both instruments have proven their merits. Couple that with the very significant cost of development and it makes a compelling argument for building A's and F's initially.
 # Just a few more days now until the prototype is finished and I can hardly wait. I believe it's going to be an amazing-sounding instrument.....
 # # # # # # # # # # # # # #cheers, Peter

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## Peter Mix

The prototype Mix A5 was completed on Monday and set up on Tuesday. It's beautiful, very light and very responsive with an extremely well-balanced voice. I played it briefly Tuesday night at a lesson where it drew rave reviews. My student is blind and has been playing one particular instrument for many years. She loved the feel of the prototype and played it for much of our session. She told me that after just a couple of minutes it felt as though she had always played it. 
 # # #Hearing it played was a delight. Double-stops on the G and D strings sound marvelous, breathy and full-bodied all at once, kinda like Kathleen Turner. The treble is brilliant and even all the way to the 22nd fret with no drop-outs. The mid-range is very sweet and even as well.
 # # #After leaving my student's house, I took the prototype to my pal Larry Sweeney, the finish wizard. He's doing the final cosmetic work on it and it should be ready early next week for photos and video recording, then it'll be sent out to meet the public.
 # Overall, my belief that carbon fiber would produce a dandy mandolin has been proven to my satisfaction at least.
We're building an A4 now and another A5 will follow rapidly with some minor changes for comparison. Production will start quite soon and our waiting list is growing.
 # I'm sorry to keep you all waiting a few days more, but I think you'll be amazed and delighted when you see the first Mix A5. It's everything we hoped for and more....

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## fatt-dad

You know what, this is a cool project! If/when there's a Mix-model in Virginia (Richmond in particular), I'd like to know about it and have a go at playing some solid amature mandolin tunes. I'm really curious just how "different" the sound is. . . . .

Good luck on this venture!

f-d

p.s., any thought of a "Mix-Master model"?

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## Bob Denton

Is the fingerboard carbon? 

Thanks

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## Peter Mix

I agree! This is a very cool project. The fingerboard is ebony with a 12" radius and 22 frets. With any luck, I'll have photos to post in less than a week.

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## Peter Mix

I can't resist sending these...

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## Peter Mix

and....

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## DryBones

would the grain run the opposite way on a lefty?

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## Peter Mix

It certainly could....

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## fwoompf

What will the bridge be made out of?

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## Peter Mix

We use Steve Smith's excellent ebony bridges and Bill James tailpieces.

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## gwalt

Any chance there might be a 2-point in the works?

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## ShaneJ

Mr. Mix, that is incredibly cool! I can't wait to hear it. Have you considered or experimented with a graphite bridge and/or saddle? I have a piece of graphite that I intended to cut a saddle out of, but I havn't done it yet. I know from building fishing rods that by adding graphite arbors and reel seats to a graphite rod, the sensitivity is greatly improved. Of course, that just means that vibrations are transmitted to the hand more effectively. Seems to me that a well-fit graphite bridge and saddle would transmit string vibrations very effectively as well. Would it transmit vibrations more effectively than ebony? Would that mean "better" tone or not? I guess there would likely be a wide range of opinions about that. It would be interesting to try it and see (hear) if there were any noticable differences in volume and/or tone between graphite and ebony. Maybe you could talk Steve Smith into crafting a bridge from graphite??

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## Peter Mix

Yes, we have considered a two-point instrument, though an F5 will likely be the next instrument in line. This is a very expensive process and each instrument represents a very substantial investment, so we have to be as practical as we can. 
In that regard, we are looking for a few investors to help #this company achieve what we believe will be remarkable things. The initial results are extremely encouraging and confirm what I have believed since I began this quest:carbon fiber is a superb material for mandolins.
If any of our gentle readers are interested in participating financially in what I think is some of the most exciting work taking place today in acoustic stringed instruments, please contact me by phone at 802-644-5607.
 #Regarding graphite bridges: we'll stick with ebony initially, but I would be interested in trying graphite as well. Tone is critical, of course.
 # # # # # # # # # # # cheers, Peter

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## Don Grieser

Really cool, Peter. Congrats. Can't wait to hear some clips of it.

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## Mattg

You are in good company. Rainsong has been making carbon fiber guitars for a few years now. They are cool sounding guitars and are very durable. Lorenzo Pimental, an excellent builder in Albuquerque, helped with the design. This was interesting to me as the Pimentals have been traditional builders of classical guitars for years.

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## Bob Denton

> #Regarding graphite bridges: we'll stick with ebony initially, but I would be interested in trying graphite as well. Tone is critical, of course.
>  # # # # # # # # # # # cheers, Peter


I ecently upgraded my CA Legacy to a carbon nut and saddle from the original Tusq, and there was a marked improvement in tone, I assume primarily from the saddle. 

I would suggest crafting at least one bridge from carbon stock just for the comparison. It wold appear to be an ideal material.

Cya!

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## WireBoy

Hmmmm, can't beat having Kathleen Turner at your finger tips...

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## sgarrity

Looks pretty darn cool. Can't wait to see and hear the finished product. The future A4 really has my interest piqued. 

Shaun

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## VictorLouis

That A-model looks great. Personally, I would like something a little _less_ traditional than the routine violin-style f-shape of those soundholes. More in keeping with the radical new carbon build. Something, perhaps, like the wavy-s shape common to Breedlove's?

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## Potosimando

I prefer the traditional look (f-hole, and everything else)...and the natural CF material (as opposed to "painting" it).

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## mikeo2

Yes, I agree a wavy S-hole would look cool....

Any word on a list of dealers we can go visit to play these yet? (Please tell me someone in or around Nashville is getting one...!)

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## braggard

Peter:

Maybe this is a naive question: What does it sound like?

oh and what will it sell for?

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## Jim Garber

> Peter:
> 
> Maybe this is a naive question: What does it sound like?
> 
> oh and what will it sell for?


Patience... this is just a prototype. And how do you describe sound/ tone etc.

As to the second question read the posts earlier in this thread. Peter said they were shooting for retail around $3500 but that is not set in stone.

Jim

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## Mike Buesseler

Regarding the sound, I'd say Peter gave a fairly positive description (!)



> Hearing it played was a delight. Double-stops on the G and D strings sound marvelous, breathy and full-bodied all at once, kinda like Kathleen Turner. The treble is brilliant and even all the way to the 22nd fret with no drop-outs. The mid-range is very sweet and even as well.


YOWZA!!

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## Bob Sayers

Hmm...looks like the mandolin equivalent of the B-1 Stealth bomber. Pretty cool. 

Bob

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## Peter Mix

After set-up, Neil Dean and I played it for nearly two hours, passing it back and forth it with my wife, Cynthia, as our audience. It's got a warm, powerful, full-bodied voice that is extremely even all across its range. There are no drop outs and dead spots, no wolf tones. The high D at the 22nd fret rings with clarity, the mid-range is rich and brilliant, the bottom end is full and fruity...okay, maybe not fruity. I'm running out of adjectives.....please feel free to send some my way.

It sounds like a very fine carved maple and spruce mandolin which is exactly what I expected! Cynthia says it's astonishingly beautiful and sounds great! I think she's astonishingly beautiful and sounds great.

At this early point, instruments will be available from NewMAD directly at $3500. Naturally, a 24-hour approval period will be in place. There is tremendous interest from dealers, so I expect that they will become more widely available as time goes along. The waiting list is growing, so you might want to contact us and send a deposit. The first batch is sold out at this point.
  Oh, we can probably offer wavy s-holes if you really want....

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## kww

Are the various hole designs built into the mold, or are they carved as a later manufacturing step?

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## jackofall

> I imagine this is kind of like watching the building of a Ferrari prototype. For me, it's way out of reality to consider owning one, but it's incredibly fascinating to watch and fantasize about possibilities.
> 
> -Phil


Yeh. What Phil said.

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## jackofall

> ...Cynthia says it's astonishingly beautiful and sounds great! I think she's astonishingly beautiful and sounds great...


Classy line, Peter. 

I am blessed in being married to a similarly inspiring lady. Nice to see someone say it. Romance lives: there is hope for the world.

(Not meant as flippantly as it might read)

Oh, and the mandolin stuff is cool too.  :Wink:

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## mandroid

How is the neck done on these ? solid resin and graphite fiber ?
laying in a previously manufactured pre stressed piece?
fiber in any special pattern, to resist string tension?
shape cross section and thickness is ... texturized surface to make all those neck sanding 
the lacquer off them folks happy ?

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## Bill Snyder

> ...The necks of these instruments are hollow, but the neck/body joint is sealed to prevent the hollow neck from acting as a secondary sound chamber. ...


I know the above quote from Mr. Mix does not answer all your questions about the neck, but it gives you a bit of information.

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## Peter Mix

okay, okay, just one more photo. Larry's gonna murderize me when he sees that I've posted another photo from last week of the unfinished prototype, but he's in the woods hunting wabbits....

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## otterly2k

I like the pinstripe look... but I find I like it best when it is lined up the way it is on the back, parallel with the neck and centerline... I find the diagonal strange...I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to it. But I"m wondering if that plays any structural role... is there a reason to make the top with the lines diagonal, or did it just happen that way?
curious...

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## Don Grieser

Just when I thought I had my MAS under control....

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## Peter Mix

The cross-grain top is largely structural. Whether we can build the same instrument with vertical fiber orientation remains to be seen. I love how it looks!
Cynthia describes the instrument as a mandolin in a tuxedo.

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## lklose

Peter,

I'd be glad to work as a field tester... 

Larry :Smile:

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## Steve Davis

Me too. It looks very cool.

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## Keltic Fiddler

Peter

That is an excellent looking mando.....I'd love to hear one, even more, I'd love to play one!

FWIW....I believe it was 2 weeks ago that the New York Times Sunday paper had an fantastic article about violin makers who have been experimenting with graphite for making the next(new?)generation of violins. The article went in depth to describe how the sound waves work inside the body of the instrument, and in the materials of the of the instrument to produce the rich tones that will be heard when the instrument is played.

If you havent seen it, it might be worth trying to find a copy of the article.

Good luck in your venture!

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## Patrick Sylvest

Carbon fiber, Huh? How much does that thing weigh, and is it fast?

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## Steve Davis

It's #here # but you have to pay for it unless you are a subscriber.

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## Jim Garber

> It's here  but you have to pay for it unless you are a subscriber.


It still is available to free registered subscribers. It came out on November 28 in the Science Section. At some time soon the Times does archive article for fee or paid subscribers only. At that time, for anyone interested, I created pdfs of both whole article with photos as well as the text only version.

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## Jim MacDaniel

Hi Peter -- exciting project you have going on there, and the prototypes look nice. Are you going to mimic the ledendary Rigel neck width, profile, and radius for these?

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## Peter Mix

Without hardware, the A5 is so light it almost floats away. With hardware, it's less than 1 3/4 pounds- very light. We should be able to set it up again tomorrow, so now I have the task of occupying my time until it's ready. I couldn't sleep last night with visions of carbon-fiber mandolins, mandolas and tenor guitars bouncing around my mind!
I'll post photos of the finished instrument as soon as it's ready for its close-ups.

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## jaimo

Hi Peter
I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if repeated...
What can you tell us about the aging of this material? Or, other characteristics which may occur as time goes by?

I tried out a Rainsong a couple of years ago that sounded pretty good. However, I decided against it because I could not justify the price when weighed against the unknowns. The major ones being longevity, repair and return on investment (which equates to acceptance by the guitar and mando community).
Thanks, mon!!

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## Jim Garber

I await Peter's replies on the topic but Jaimo does bring up an interesting question. How does one repair an instrument like this? 

Jim

----------


## evanreilly

That assumes it will break.

----------


## ErikAitch

If it were a model aircraft, repairs of a crunchy break would be easy-peasy. Something like a mando, where appearance is of major importance would be tricky, I guess. Getting the fibers perfectly aligned (and that's assuming that it's showing the weave) would be the critical part. Structural things ought to be easier than they are in wood, all other things being equal. 

Interesting to think about, that's for sure. If a top replacement were needed, will it affect collector's value? If a better sounding layup comes along... hmmmm. Juicy stuff!

----------


## Peter Mix

What I can tell you is that carbon fiber has been utilized for quite a number of years in a wide variety of ways including aircraft, automotive, bicycle and marine manufacturing. Luis&Clark have been building bowed instruments for 8 years or more and the oldest of them look brand new. Raw carbon fiber can age and take on an amber hue if exposed to UV rays long enough, so finish is essential, but the track record indicates that it's a very durable material. Just don't crash at speeds in excess of 100 miles an hour as it will likely shatter. 
Our tops are removable in a worst case scenario and the A5 is designed to be maintained just as you would a fine maple&spruce instrument except that it won't be nearly as delicate. Return on investment is a question that only time will answer, I suppose, but I believe the guitar and mandolin communities will embrace these instruments for all of the right reasons: they sound great, they're extremely beautiful, they feel wonderful in the hands, they stay in tune and they couldn't care less how hot, cold, humid or dry it is.

----------


## danb

Peter, I'm curious what the process is for honing the thicknesses and response on such a novel material. Is it something you can carve/adjust after it's been cast, or is each tweak a new mould? Curious to know if you can adjust the tone on it after it's been manufactured, and how you are able to work for optimal tone etc.

----------


## delsbrother

Kind of a parallel question - if each top comes out of the same mold, do they all sound the same? Or are there still variations from instrument to instrument? What do the players of other CF instruments say?

----------


## Peter Mix

There is real art in creating an arched top with carbon fiber and the folks we're working with are masters. Our tops are comprised of several specifically chosen weaves. The sound chamber has proven its virtues tonally, so if anything, we only to need to make minor adjustments to bracing size/configuration or f-hole size. The initial results are so good that we'll build another prototype A5 with slightly larger f-holes just to hear the differences and determine which way to go.

----------


## danb

So Peter, what was the process like to figure out how to deal with the different material in terms of graduations (is it graduated?) and bracing.. all that sort of thing. Supposedly you wouldn't need braces for structure, but perhaps they impart typical tone features?

And why no CF fingerboard? seems like CF humps would wear out less quickly than wood/metal frets

----------


## Will Kimble

I'll take a stab at this... #

There is a lot of experience and development from building violins/violas/cellos that is being applied to the carbon fiber mandolins. #I don't know how much of the nitty gritty details Peter can share, as this is the only company I know of that is building archtop instruments out of carbon fiber.

The braces are similar to what I use on my mandolins, but translated to a new material based on previous experience. #In my opinion, tonebars are not structural elements of wooden mandolins - they tie the top together and allow it to respond more quickly. #They are TONEbars, not top braces. #

The fingerboards are made of ebony so fretwork can easily be done by guys like me. # #It also gives us easy access to some fret (mando/banjo) and fingerboard (flat/radiused) options.

Will Kimble

----------


## mandolooter

Peter...did I hear ya say tenor guitars.....lol...great idea!!!

----------


## Shana Aisenberg

Peter, that looks really cool! I sure look forward to trying one sometime. Just let me know if you need any extra testers :Smile:  

Seth

----------


## bluegrassplayer

Wow! Good work! I usually lean towards the traditional, but I like the nontraditional in this case.

Drop me a letter if yall want to send a sample down here in the mid-west.  

Micah

----------


## sgarrity

I have to admit that I prefer relatively traditional instruments. But today I played a CA Vintage Performer carbon fiber guitar for the first time. And it sounded pretty darn good. Especially at it's price point. These things definitely have a place in the market. I'll be very interested to play one of these mandos.

Shaun

----------


## Bob Denton

I play a new CA Legacy and I took it to a session the other night. I usually change my strings once or twice a week, but I wanted to see how long the factory strings lasted.

I broke a G string in the middle of a song and the damn thing stayed perfectly in tune! The remaining 5 strings were in perfect pitch and all in tune...

I don't think there is a wood instrument that would remain in tune with a broken wound string.

Cya!

----------


## HoGo

Now I wonder what kind of case would you recommend for this mandolin?
Usually the case is stronger than the instrument it holds...
Maybe solid cast iron or concrete?

----------


## Chris Baird

Looks great I'd love to play one. I think there will certainly be a place for instruments that can sound great and withstand the rigors of the road. 
 I would advocate exploring phenolic to replace ebony for the fingerboard. I think the whole industry would do well to get away from ebony.

----------


## siren_20

I was curious about the potential use of black phenolic for the fingerboard as well... if you'll excuse the blatant pun, it seems like a "natural" choice for an instrument built of predominantly synthetic materials.

----------


## Scott Tichenor

Peter emailed a few select people some images of the first instrument in it's finished status. The pictures needed some fairly serious color correction to remove shadows. All I've done is adjust the RGB balance a bit which helps, but lets just say Peter won't be winning any National Geographic photographic contests any time soon. Here they are as I received them.

----------


## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



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## Scott Tichenor



----------


## JimRichter

Will K. sent me some of these photos this AM. Needless to say I was pretty excited to see it strung up. I would love to play it.

Peter--will there be a decal or inlay for the headstock?

Jim

----------


## bluegrassplayer

What type of an endpin is that? It's blueish in the pictures.

----------


## Peter Mix

Our logo decals are in the works as is the engraved James tailpiece. The bluish strap button is the Schertler endpin-jack cover. We hope to have them plated to match the tailpieces.
  Apologies for the photos. The mandolin is stunningly gorgeous and all I can say is that my photographic work is very inexpensive.....

----------


## Steve Davis

I'd love to hear some sound clips. It looks great.

----------


## bradeinhorn

oh my god....why do i want that??? for my bank acount's sake, i hope it sounds bad. no offense.

----------


## Don Grieser

Is the logo decal going to say "The Mad Mix"?  

It's looks really great!

----------


## JimRichter

> Is the logo decal going to say "The Mad Mix"? # 
> 
> It's looks really great!


No, I betcha it says "Sir Mix-A-Lot"

Jim

----------


## mikeo2

COOL! Cool cool. I'm so excited to hear some reviews on what these sound like.

----------


## cbarry

How well does carbon fiber accept "wood" screws? (Related to tuner and tailpiece attachment.)
Thanks, Chuck

----------


## Perry

this satisfies my M.A.S. cravings on many levels...

bad a** looking black top
built in Schertler with an end pin jack
Will Kimble-ness playability vibe
all that and I can play it underwater

----------


## fwoompf

Finally, an instrument you can personalize with decals!

I'm gonna put a racing strip on mine!

----------


## Glassweb

Lloyd, move over over... and let Peter take over!! YEAH! You know what I'm talkin' about... yeah... YEAH!!

----------


## bradeinhorn

does it need a case?

----------


## Glassweb

Hell, it IS the case!

----------


## Peter Mix

I hope to find a case manufacture who can create something as diminutive as the teens mandolin cases which were barely bigger than the instrument itself. These instruments don't need a heavy case- in fact, a gig bag would suffice- but not everyone is comfortable with a gig bag.
Back to playing the prototype.....

----------


## Lee

I'll take one in chrome please.

----------


## wichitamando

All I can say is WOW!

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

> Finally, an instrument you can personalize with decals!
> 
> I'm gonna put a racing strip on mine!


Flames -- must have flames on mine!

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

> ...lets just say Peter won't be winning any National Geographic photographic contests any time soon.


Well for starters, the instruments in his pics would have to be topless to receive serious consideration.

----------


## Daniel Nestlerode

> Flames -- must have flames on mine!


Yes yes! BLUE flames!


Daniel

----------


## Joe Parker

I'm guessing it's available in any color you want as long as it's black. Looks very stealthy! JPP

----------


## Mattg

WWWWOOOOOWWWWW!

That instrument has such a bright future, I need sunglasses just to look at it.

----------


## JEStanek

> Originally Posted by  (Don Grieser @ Dec. 14 2006, 13:05)
> 
> Is the logo decal going to say "The Mad Mix"?  
> 
> It's looks really great!
> 
> 
> No, I betcha it says "Sir Mix-A-Lot"
> 
> Jim


I like big tone and I cannot lie,
You other pickers can't deny.
When a man walks in with an
itty bitty case and the CF in your face you get

Sprung!

Thanks Jim Richter.

That looks pretty darn cool. Will someone please elaborate on the synthetic fretboard material (phenolics) Chris Baird was talking about for replacing ebony? could those also be used for bridges?

Jamie

----------


## MASadict

Being somewhat new to the mando scene, and having already bought 3, it will probably take selling all I have just to entertain getting one of these babes...:p

----------


## John Flynn

> I hope to find a case manufacture who can create something as diminutive as the teens mandolin cases which were barely bigger than the instrument itself. These instruments don't need a heavy case- in fact, a gig bag would suffice- but not everyone is comfortable with a gig bag.


A black fiberglass case would seem appropriate. Perhaps something like the Eastman cases. That sure is a great looking mandolin! I can't wait to play one!

----------


## mikeo2

> Back to playing the prototype.....


Hey Peter, If you get tired of playing it, feel free to send it to me for a while

----------


## Peter Mix

Quoth JPP: I'm guessing it's available in any color you want as long as it's black. Looks very stealthy! 

Carbon fiber can be stained and we have two orders for Atomic sunburst instruments. With the black/grey warp&weft underneath, it will look a bit different than stained maple and spruce, but should be gorgeous. Imagine a Midnight Blue burst! Ooh lala! Flames!

My daughter, Sophia, is working on some deco-inspired designs for the back of an instrument and I can hardly wait to see them.

I'm sorry to keep you waiting for sound-bites. It shouldn't take too much longer. For comparison's sake, I can tell you that it is very similar in voice to my Vanden which has long been my "desert island" mandolin. In short, I think it sounds fantastic. 

The only dilemma is that I frequently have to stop playing and put it down to admire its beauty!

----------


## PCypert

This sounds like the perfect mando for me since I've moved to Bangkok, Thailand. If you're willing I'll put it through the paces to see if CF is all it's cracked up to be. I routinely go from dry, hot city to tropical forest to the wasteland that is border Cambodia to the mountains to beaches, etc. If this thing can really withstand all that and sound good I'm in. No varnish mandolins for me...cool season is 89 degrees and only 50% humidity 

Paul

----------


## Jim MacDaniel

> I'm guessing it's available in any color you want as long as it's black....


Hmmmmm... the _NewMAD Model T_.

----------


## tiltman

I'm late to this thread and entire topic.
How could one go about seeing one of these and/or ordering one?
Kirk

----------


## Peter Mix

Hi Kirk,
  We are taking orders and expect to be shipping the first instruments in January. Our waiting list is growing rapidly, so feel free to contact us at 802-644-5607 or newmad@wildblue.net if you'd like a spot reserved.
  Our prototype ovalhole mandolin is due by the end of the week and if the f-hole version is anything to judge by, it should be wonderful. I'll keep you posted.
  The website should launch in a day or two with soundbites at www.newmillenniumacousticdesign.com 
               cheers, Peter

----------


## twaaang

Peter did set the instrument down long enough on Friday evening to let me play it, and it was a real treat! First, it's astonishingly light (but not neck-heavy). Second, it's astonishingly responsive and bright -- I was thinking "loud" when I first played on it, but after awhile I felt it was more a matter of the immediacy of the sound and it being very, very clear in its tone. It was marvelous to be in front of, if you've heard Peter's sound clips on other mandolins I think you'd agree this one is comparable-to-superior. Also being passed around were an L&H and a Rigel CT-110, all blending nicely in different permutations; I wish I'd asked to see his Vanden, so perhaps I could second the comparison he makes above.

In any event the instrument is being forwarded this week to some people with real "cred" (more than this nosy neighbor) who should be weighing in in due course, so stay tuned for them. I do hope I get a chance at the oval-hole . . . which should be just right in a forest green, no? -- Paul

----------


## valle

M.A.S.S. indead....I hope this is not too gauche, but is there any Idea yet as to how much one of these lovelies is gonna Hoover out of my wallet?  I like to start saving now or reconcider having that first born so I could sell 'em. OK, maybe not that extreem. She is beautiful Mr.Mix and I really can hardly wait to hear and hold one.

              Best Regards,
                   Valle

----------


## bluegrassplayer

I would put in an order except that my dad wants me to save up for a car. # 
Who wants a car when you can get an indestructable mandolin that actually sounds good?

----------


## Bill Snyder

> M.A.S.S. #indead....I hope this is not too gauche, but is there any Idea yet as to how much one of these lovelies is gonna Hoover out of my wallet? # I like to start saving now or reconcider having that first born so I could sell 'em. #OK, maybe not that extreem. #She is beautiful Mr.Mix and I really can hardly wait to hear and hold one.
> 
>  # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Best Regards,
>  # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Valle #


It has been mentioned two or three times in the thread on earlier pages that they will be in the $3,500 range.

----------


## Will Kimble

I spent a day with the protoype and I am amazed at the potential of this material and this instrument. #Take a look at the website, it just went live and includes some wonderful sound clips: 

http://www.new-mad.com/

Will Kimble

----------


## bluegrassplayer

I hate cars!

----------


## JimW

Well, I'll have to say I'm impressed with the sound and tonal complexity of this mandolin. But I'm a bit disappointed Peter, for I wanted to hear you tear 'er up on some hard drivin' 'grass. A little bit of "Bluegrass Stomp" or "Southern Flavor" or maybe some "Pike County Break Down."  A few good chop chords would've been nice and also get it in a jam and see how it holds up. I'd really be interested in seeing and hearing it in a jam situation.

Sounds great though, and I'm looking forward to more reports.

Jim Watts

----------


## Ragamuffin

Peter...

The proof is in the pudding. I just listened to your sound clips and you have indeed created what to my ears is a winner. Fabulous sustain, clarity and balance. I hope you enjoy trmendous success with this endeavor...and all the while saving a few trees in the process.

Regards,

Ragman

----------


## Yellowmandolin

Yeah, those videos are pretty sweet. And Peter, you can certainly play a mandolin! I have a question about the recording though: Is is just the Schertler, or did you use an external mic in the mix as well? Sounds very good!

----------


## Chris Biorkman

Peter, you should be very pleased with the results. I didn't know what to expect, but I was very impressed by the tone.

----------


## Phil Jolly

Wow, after watching those soundclips, I'm sold

----------


## billkilpatrick

lovely sound - beautiful looking instrument. what made it for me with the sound clip videos, however, was peter's wee bit of grey beard up there at the top of the screen, wagging along with the music.

nice playing, too.

- bill

----------


## Peter Mix

I didn't use the Schertler, just a Canon Optura 600 video camera and its built-in mic. It seems like the fairest representation that way. No big production values and effects!
I'll leave the bluegrass tunes to those that do them justice. Will can tell you about its chop- it's a monster! We'll add more soundbites as we go and better pictures, too. 
It does indeed have fabulous sustain, clarity and balance. After the A4 is finished, we'll build another A5 with slightly larger f-holes to see if we can improve an already great voice.

----------


## Bret Roberts

Mr. Mix,

Just got done on the new web site and really enjoyed the sound clips (Im not to sure about the rest of the office). Good luck to you on this new venture in the New Year. I will have to start saving up for when you come out with a F, no need to rush as this will take a long time.

Would it be at all possible for you to post the names of the songs in the sound clips #s 1-6? I know that this was not the purpose of the sound clips, but I would love to see if I could find the tab for these on Mandozine (yes I know that I should work them out and not rely on tab but that does not seem to be working for me at this time)

Thanks again.

----------


## mandelect

I think a couple of the tunes, at least, are Peter's own? I think clip 3 is called "Robin Heud" & clip 4, "This I Know". I recognize these from some old mando-tasting vids I downloaded a while back. Would love to hear full versions of these very nice compositions ...and possibly obtain TAB arrangements!

The NewMAD mandolin looks beautiful - I want one but I think I'll have to sell my Vanden first.

----------


## ronlane3

Peter, I just finished watching and listening to the clips. That thing sounds awesome. I love the volume and tone of it at this point. I do have one question. Normal wooden mandolins will "open up" as they are played in, do you foresee this mandolin doing the same thing?

Ron

----------


## TonyP

Bravo, kudos, every explicative in the book to the whole NewMAD crew! I enjoyed and was impressed by the pics and sound clips. I too would have liked to hear at least a couple of chops, just to hear 'em. I also am impressed that you went for the heart, the sound, and bypassed the lure of the Florentine. It's about the tone, and I personally would rather sound good than look ostentatious. It's not easy to convey that I think the look of the mando is also spot on, because there are so many that are swayed by exotic woods and finishes. But I am a lover of simple esthetics, and I've never been swayed by just pics and sound clips, but oooh, if only there were an inoculation for MAS, I think I'd need it now.

----------


## Scott Tichenor

This instrument is in my possession at the moment. Will sent it overnight. Sorry, you'll have to wait for more, but I have played it for about a half hour already.

----------


## Daniel Nestlerode

I'm listenening to NME's _All the Rage_ as I read and type this (paused the CD while watching the clips) and I'm struck anew by the idea that Robert Fripp had when creating the League of Crafty Guitarists.

Fripp had his students use Ovation guitars because they sounded more similar to one another than any other fully wooden brand or type of guitar. #This allowed a high degree of group cohesion and control of the dynamic. #These mandolins would like have the same properties in a mandolin orchestra that Fripp was looking for in his League of Crafty Guitarists. #Imagine the tone of an orchestra outfitted with a full range of New-MAD mandolin family instruments.

Daniel

----------


## bradeinhorn

that thing sounds really awesome-can't wait to try one- grey fox, peter???

----------


## Peter Mix

I don't honestly know what to expect in terms of the instrument opening up. It certainly did in the hours after its birth and again when we finished it, but I don't know if anyone can say with certainty what it will do over time. Kinda exciting and mysterious, yes? 

I feel our job is to build an instrument that sounds great right out of the box. 

Lest I forget my manners, I want to express my profound thanks to you all for your very kind support and even kinder words. Will and I have put a great deal into this, as have the carbon-fiber folks who are nothing short of 21st century magicians. We appreciate more than we can convey the response we are getting to this labor of love.

Hats off to the mandolin, King of Instruments!

----------


## mandopete

Wow, I just checked out the sound clips that that mandolin sounds fantastic! Are you going to be at Wintergrass perchance?

----------


## Peter Mix

Neil Dean will be at Wintergrass showing his own splendid work. Neil will be bringing a few NewMAD instruments as well.

----------


## JEStanek

Peter,

Those sound clips sound very nice, great playing! What a cool instrument. Everything looks like black gold for this project.

Jamie

----------


## Scotti Adams

That thing is a beast already..I love it. Great work to all those invloved..cant wait to play one some day.

----------


## first string

I'm amazed. I mean really. I was extremely skeptical, and I'm still not a hundred percent sure that it sounds like a traditional wooden mandolin...but who cares. It sounds really lovely from what I can hear. Someday if I have the bucks I'll definitely do my best to aquire one of these. Not that I could make it sound like that but still. 

I especialy liked your rendition of Lord Inchiquin.

----------


## fatt-dad

I really enjoy the sound of that mandolin and the tune selections. Beautiful all around!

f-d

----------


## Scott Tichenor

My observations from spending the day with it:

It's loud and has a big voice. I like that. The weight--it's quite light when you pick it up. The balance (ie, weight of headstock vs. rest of instrument) is agreeable. I'm mostly an F player but found the balance to my liking. The top looks thin but this isn't wood and I'm no expert on these things so I can only say it caught my eye and I was surprised. 

Interestingly, the thing has huge overtones that immediately annoyed me so I put some silencer's below the bridge. Nothing happened. It's all coming from the headstock, so a couple of silencers there did the trick. Does that have something to do with the fact that the neck is hollow? No idea, but I've never seen a mandolin produce that kind of ringing when the strings behind the nut were not muted.

Where you would expect a seam, it appears the material is possibly folded or stretched. It's interesting how that process must occur during production.

What's unremarkable about it, and this may be somewhat in jest, is that it looks, feels, responds and sounds like a very good A model mandolin. The chop sounds like a mandolin chop, the lead notes and chords sound very good. Personally I didn't notice it opening up while playing it but can't say it will or won't. My guess would be it likely wouldn't change much.

One final thing, no picture I've seen of this has done it justice. It's very striking. Gotta run or I'd tell more. This evening it's being taken to a dinner with a bunch of area musicians and luthiers/repairmen that really know their business, ala Jim Triggs and Leo Posche and others. Be fun to get their take on it.

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . oh and one more thing, Mr. Mix - Got any tab for those beautiful mandolin pieces? You did a great job showcasing that mandolin and it's music I'd like to learn myself (even if I can't buy your cool mandolin right away).

f-d

----------


## Kevin K

Yessir, that's some catchy playing besides good sounding mandolin.

----------


## VictorLouis

Gorgeous sound on those clips outta my tiny little tower speaker. The sustain seems dramatic for an f-hole, so I wonder how powerful the oval will be.

----------


## Peter Mix

I am a card carrying potato-head when it comes to transcribing my own material. Stop by the house and I'd be glad to teach you these tunes. Otherwise, I have to rely on someone with greater skills to tab or transcribe them. Sorry! 
The O'Carolan pieces are readily available in O'Carolan and Irish collections (as an aside, the NME's live version of Lord Inchiquin is superb). Carolan's Concerto is huge fun and there are a number of versions. I got mine from Will Patton and I'll have to ask him the name of the source. Best played at high speed!

----------


## Chris Baird

Sounds great! Congratulations.

----------


## MML

Peter,

 # This has probally been said, but I think you will go down in history. Mandolin history at least.

Thanks for following your vision.

----------


## Stillpicking

Peter, please forgive me but I could not help but post the "Mix A5" portrait. I'll have some prints in the mail tomorrow for you.

Thanks again !

Mike

----------


## Loren Bailey

Peter,

This may have been answered somewhere back in the last eight pages but I can't find it; what are the specs on the strings you're using? Just curious, this whole thing has me very fascinated. I agree with one of the previous posters, you have furthered your stake in mando history. This is going to be fun to watch. That is one very gorgeous sounding instrument.

Loren

----------


## ErikAitch

Oh jeebers. I figure that by the time I've learned to play well enough to need one of these, I'll either be dead or rich enough to afford one.

----------


## Keith Erickson

Peter,

This sounds absolutely beautiful and the looks are a killer. I have a soft spot in my heart for those "A's" so you really tugged at my heart "strings".

If you already answered this my apologies but I was wondering would this A have the option for a front strap button as well?

Lookin' good and best of luck to ya....

Best Regards,

----------


## warren

peter
 could you please list the titles of the six pieces, particularly #3.
Awesome mandolin by the way. Stange how a carbon fibre black mandolin seems less threatening to the traditionalists than the rigels (which by the way i also like)

----------


## Peter Mix

I have the prototype strung with D'Addario EXP's and the tunes are:
Clip#1 is Lord Inchiquin by Turlan O'Carolan
Clip#2 is Sophia In Paris...written for my daughter
Clip#3 is Robin Heud...written for my father
Clip#4 is This I Know...written for my wife
Clip#5 is DeWalt's Blues...written for my son
Clip#6 is Carolan's Concerto by Turlan O'Carolan
There is a strap button on the prototype just beyond the treble side of the heel of the neck (well, I left it off when I shipped it out, but it does have one). There are several spots where the button could be mounted.
This instrument is nearly effortless to play and extremely responsive. I believe a great instrument will bring out qualities the player may not have known they possessed, so I say Invest in yourself!

----------


## JimW

Peter, I have a couple other questions that I don't believe I've seen addressed yet. Does this mandolin have tone bars? and if so, how are they placed and are they made of the carbon fiber material? Could a decorative (i.e. binding) edge be put on the instrument? Since the body is almost indestructible, have you thought about offering them with a composite finger board with Stainless Steel frets?

Peter, I love the way this mandolin sounds and can't wait until I hear from a bluegrasser about how it holds up for some hard drivin grass.

Thanks,
Jim Watts

----------


## Perry

FYI: Clip #3 has a little bit of strumming towards the end...sounds to me like it has a nice tight focused thump....

Here'a another question: Since the material is carbon fiber and not wood, would the instruments sound identical to eachother as they roll off the production line?

The clips sounds great! Two of the things I love about the mando from afar are the killer looks and the built in Schertler.

Perry

----------


## Will Kimble

I'll try to help Peter with this round of questions.

It does have tonebar bracing, and the braces are made of carbon fiber. #It is not possible to add binding in the traditional sense because of how the instrument is constructed, but I'm sure there will be some interesting paint schemes in the works. #We stuck with an ebony fingerboard so that fretwork could be done by your local luthier. #

I don't think either Peter or I have enough experience with stainless steel frets to consider that possibility at this time. #Everybody I have talked to has said it is very difficult to work with. #Obviously there is a lot of potential there, too, and hopefully I will get a chance to work with the stainless frets someday.

My vision was to build a traditional mandolin out of carbon fiber, hence the Loar-style ebony bridge, ebony fingerboard, etc. #It is functionally very similar to the wooden mandolins that I build, but with some new construction techniques to accomodate the new materials. 

Oh yeah, the chop is killer by the way!#

Will Kimble

----------


## ftlstrings

Not that this is new, but great job! Those look and sound great, at least when played by someone who know what he's doing, and really appeal to my design senses in regards to modern material usages.

Keep pushing it!

~M~

----------


## Don Grieser

WOW! The mando and Mad Mix (still lobbying for that on the headstock) , the player, sound wonderful. MMAS for Xmas.

----------


## Peter Mix

Tone bars are actually made of graphite, but Will is otherwise right on the money as usual.

----------


## fatt-dad

Will you offer this in "pancake"?

f-d

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## Mario Proulx

Peter and Will, have you guys talked to the boys at CA guitars at all? When they began making their CF guitars, they also used an ebony fretboard, but this soon proved to be a problem with some players' climates; the ebony would change with the seasons or with RH changes, and the neck would go into various states of relief. While the CF didn't respond at all to humidity, the ebony still wanted to act like ebony. They have now gone to a CF(or someother composite) fretboard. The mandolin's shorter, stiffer neck may eliminate this trait, but y'all may want to investigate a bit into it anyhow.

Fretting with stainless also isn't the big deal it's so often made out to be. I've gone through a couple pounds of it, and don't see it as a big issue at all. Well worth the effort to use! I would think that fretting into Cf would simply require a slightly wider slot, with perhaps a little epoxy to lock it in place(as with Don Teeter's fretting method of old).

Just some thoughts to try to help. Methinks your mandolin's pretty cool!

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## Jim Garber

> . . . oh and one more thing, Mr. Mix - Got any tab for those beautiful mandolin pieces? You did a great job showcasing that mandolin and it's music I'd like to learn myself (even if I can't buy your cool mandolin right away).
> 
> f-d


I had admired Peter's tune Sophia in Paris, which he also played on one of the Rgel site videos. He had sent it to me some months ago and gave me permission to post it here.

Jim

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## Kevin K

Have not listen to all the clips yet, Which one on Mad's site is Sophia? I'll be sure to listen to it

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## Nathan Sanders

Really amazing mando! I cannot wait to see the oval hole and f-hole. I'd love to see an army-navy (or pancake) with a snake head.

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## Jim Garber

> the tunes are:
> Clip#1 is Lord Inchiquin by Turlan O'Carolan
> Clip#2 is Sophia In Paris...written for my daughter
> Clip#3 is Robin Heud...written for my father
> Clip#4 is This I Know...written for my wife
> Clip#5 is DeWalt's Blues...written for my son
> Clip#6 is Carolan's Concerto by Turlan O'Carolan


Peter listed them on the previous page (see above).
#2 is Sophia -- close to my heart for two reasons 1) I like the tune and two my daughter's name is also Sophia (not Sophie, as she will tell you!)

Jim

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## warren

Quote:"Clip#2 is Sophia In Paris...written for my daughter
Clip#3 is Robin Heud...written for my father
Clip#4 is This I Know...written for my wife
Clip#5 is DeWalt's Blues...written for my son"

Wow! those are some of my favourite solo mandolin pieces. Do yo have a cd available? If so i want one.

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## haptown

I may have missed this while reading the thread but how much will these mandolins cost?

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## Bob Denton

> They have now gone to a CF(or someother composite) fretboard. The mandolin's shorter, stiffer neck may eliminate this trait, but y'all may want to investigate a bit into it anyhow.


I was at the factory a few weeks ago and saw the fretting of the CF boards. I was told it works exactly like wood.

Cya!

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## jefflester

> I may have missed this while reading the thread but how much will these mandolins cost?


It was mentioned a few times in this thread. $3500

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## Brad Weiss

Carbon Fiber or no, I just LOVE Mr. Mix's playing!! Thanks for posting Sophia In Paris, Jim- I'm going to get right on it!!!

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## Peter Mix

Aw shucks, you're all too kind. I don't have a cd available though I have started recording one this year. My hope is to get into the studio soon with Will Patton and actually finish what I've started.

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## Duc Vu

Very nicely done, and congratulations to all involved. My mind is running wild with the possibilities as CF becomes accepted and is no longer bound to traditional wood based architecture:

-one piece bbody and neck, woven as a cocoon
-Fuller dome skeleton with thin skin for max vibration.
-Other materials sandwiched between layers of CF with electronic control to change shape/tension of the top to dial in desired tone.
-Mandolin shaped like this:  

When that happens Peter will be the Bill Gates of the mandolin world. 

After all CF bikes don't look like steel bikes. Of course, Peter will sound great no matter what he's playing.

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## Keith Erickson

Peter,

May I ask what type of strings are you using on your CF mando?

Thank you,

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## Duc Vu

CF bike:

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## Peter Mix

I've got it strung with medium gauge D'Addario EXP's. By the way, the Mix A4 went into the spray booth this afternoon and should be ready to play in about a week. It's quite beautiful. Oh boy! I can hardly wait!

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## Scott Tichenor

Here's a front shot I took of it just now. It's about 40 degrees out, but apparently this mandolin doesn't care. Still doesn't capture the sort of 3D look it has up close.

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## Scott Tichenor



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## Peter Mix

Aren't you that photographer for National Geographic? Man, that is one fine looking instrument!

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## Bob Sayers

I like the black buttons. They add to the stealthy look.

Bob

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## mandroid

Stealth would be an all black finish, its a given that the instrument may have a tendency to upstage the player, as it is.

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## c3hammer

That is one incredible instrument! I made some carbon fiber mandolin tops a few years ago, but never got the body neck molds sorted to actually complete one. Now I'm super jealous that I didn't finish it.

Too many people second guessed my efforts and as I was too much of a newbie back then, I started to wonder if it would work and put it on the back burner. Looks like it's going to be a killer project.

There was also a couple of folks who built a carbon fiber mando back in the early / mid 90's. They had a complete bluegrass band that played all carbon fiber instruments at one of the composites industry shows back then. Sadly the main guy behind those instruments died in a car crash some years ago and all the developement kind of disapeared with him as far as I know.

Congratulations to you guys on having the wherewithal to stick it out to completion. Those things are incredibly cool and should prove to be the next big step in the evolution of mandolins.

Next you need to try some thermoplastic and thermoplastic composite tone bars to tame those bad boys 

Cheers,
Pete

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## SaltySox

Wow, that sounds incredible...

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## grandmainger

If it's not a trade secret, I would very much like to know what glue is used to fix the ebony fretboard to the carbon fiber neck... 

Thanks
Germain

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## John Flynn

> By the way, the Mix A4 went into the spray booth this afternoon and should be ready to play in about a week. -Dec. 22


So any pix yet? Any sound files? Inquiring minds want to know!

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## Jim Garber

> So any pix yet? Any sound files? Inquiring minds want to know!


You need to read back thru this thread. Pic and sound files have been up for awhile on the New-Mad site.

Jim

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## twaaang

The earlier photos and clips are of the A5. I too am one of the inquiring minds standing by for the A4. -- Paul

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## John Flynn

> You need to read back thru this thread. Pic and sound files have been up for awhile on the New-Mad site. - jgarber


Jim:

You need to re-read my post and the quote. The pix and the sound files that are out there now are for the A5,as in F-holes. On Dec. 22, Peter said the A4, as in oval hole, was almost done. I was wondering about pix and sound files for that.

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## Jim MacDaniel

> The earlier photos and clips are of the A5. #I too am one of the inquiring minds standing by for the A4. #-- #Paul


Me too. 

(And I wonder what a carbon fiber mandolin's soundhole rosette should be built from.  )

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## Peter Mix

Hi folks,
   Sorry to keep you waiting in suspense about the A4. I've been in computer hell for two days and have finally emerged, I hope (we made the switch from pc to Mac after 20+ years). The A4 is wonderful! It has the rich, warm, enveloping voice on the G & D strings that you hope for in a great ovalhole instrument. As well, it has wonderful power, punch and clarity on the A & E strings. I've always been a great fan of the elevated fingerboard and 15th fret neck-joint of the F5 and this has all of those physical characteristics coupled with the voice of a fine ovalhole. This is a powerful instrument with great sweetness, fullness and purity of voice. I'll try to post photos tomorrow and will be recording it for the website in the next couple of days. Please email me at info@new-mad.com if you have any questions. Thanks for your interest!
                            cheers, Peter

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## Jim Garber

Sorry, Mando Johnny, I did misread your post. I am so used to the multiples of people esp. on this thread asking the same question, like, how much will it cost, etc.

Jim

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## Peter Mix

Well, the photos could undoubtedly be better, but here's the lovely A4:

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## Jim Garber

Thanks for posting the A4 pic, Peter. It looks by the birdge position that is has the same neck length of the A5?

Jim

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## bluegrassplayer

By looking at the fretboard, it looks like it joins at the 12th fret like a standard A4. #

But I may be wrong.

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## mandolooter

> I've always been a great fan of the elevated fingerboard and 15th fret neck-joint of the F5 and this has all of those physical characteristics coupled with the voice of a fine ovalhole.


Does anyone ever READ the posts?

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## fatt-dad

O.K. I've been avoiding being the critic, but here goes. . . . Just from the "looks" department, the sound hole on the A4 seems too close to the fretboard. To me it looks like it wants to be moved a half inch (maybe 3/8ths) south.

fatt I-do-like-this-project-however dad

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## sgarrity

I'm gonna have to agree with fatt-dad on this one. That's the first thing I noticed when I looked at that pic. Still anxious to hear some sound clips of it though. This project is undoubtedly a milestone in mandolin construction. Can't wait to actually hold and play one myself.

Shaun

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## Peter Mix

I'll defer to Will Kimble on soundhole placement, but can tell you that it sounds marvelous and is extremely beautiful. The 15th fret of the Mix A4 lies exactly where the 12th fret would be on a vintage Gibson A-model. I'll work on video clips this weekend and will hope to have them on the website next week.....
                  regards, Peter
Peter Mix
NewMillenniumAcousticDesign
978 Oakes Rd
Waterville VT 05492
802-644-5607
info@new-mad.com
www.new-mad.com

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## Peter Mix

Hi folks,
    We finally posted videoclips of the first Mix carbon fiber A4 ovalhole here: www.new-mad.com  My Christmas tree darkened the room quite a bit, but hopefully you can idea of its voice. I like it lots! 
    	We're off to the NAMM show in Anaheim tomorrow and will be at Booth #1412 with Chris Middaugh of Schertler. Stop by to say hi if you have a chance and try one of these elegant little nippers.
                                    ciao, Peter
Peter Mix & Cynthia Salter-Mix
NewMillenniumAcousticDesign
978 Oakes Rd
Waterville VT 05492
802-644-5607
info@new-mad.com
www.new-mad.com

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## Lane Pryce

Pete you have yer-self a dang good sounding pair of mandolins. I listened to all of the sound clips and was knocked over; very good tone and the volume as well. Sounds like carbon fiber is meant to made into mandolins. The A5 to my ears had a little more substance and complexity, however the A4 was supurb in its own way. IMO your R&D was time well spent. Congratulations ------ I know these instruments will be well received. Lp

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## ShaneJ

2 words.....Wow! & Congratulations!

Those are beautiful in looks and in tone, IMO.

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## mandroid

Earlier the topic of a snug fitting case for these was mentioned . 
 The case that was made for David Hodson's Djangolins comes to mind . Mine seems to be vacuum formed of a metalflake colored material, and its rimmed with a gasket, same stuff as Pegasus, same latches .
its fairly light , by itself .. Better than ABS,  Lexan or non branded Polycarbonate sheet vacuum forms nicely.
and as forming takes place at a higher temperature a silvery case should be stable, not warping or blistering, even if left locked in the car.
 just a suggestion..   note: vacuum forming is a pretty quick process , once the tooling is made. 
a pizza oven and the hoover box

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## Peter Mix

Mandolinist and photographer extraordinaire Gary Payne of San Diego took photos of our first instruments at the NAMM show and they've just been posted on the website:http://www.new-mad.com/ 
and they are extraordinarily beautiful. We have some very cool stuff in the works now that I hope to reveal in a couple of weeks...stay tuned.....
																		regards, Peter

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## Don Grieser

Great photos--they really show the beauty of the materials. Is a strap button on the neck side an option? Can you drill into this stuff to install one later? I have a Red Diamond oval A with the 15 fret neck joint. This neck length works in an oval hole.

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## Glassweb

Hey Peter... as long as you're working with carbon fiber how about doing all of us a favor (and hopefully yourself too) by creating a line of well-designed, carbon fiber cases. Any thoughts?

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## ErikAitch

Beware the Niggle-Snark, my son...

Very, very well executed... and lovely, lively sound. Cudos, Peter and team!

But... there are two things that bother me on a strictly visual (and mostly visceral) basis. The Lesser Niggle: I think the headstock would look better if it were plainer. It seems very busy compared to the rest of it; perhaps a finer weave would minimize it? In all honesty, if it were mine, I'd add a piece of ebony with a delicate binding.

OTOH, The Greater Niggle has to do with the logo; I stared at its picture for a long time, and couldn't make sense of it at all. Only by reading the copy on the home page did I understand it says "Mix", not "Miss" or "Mi96." In my overly educated visual arts and merchandising opinion, puzzles like that don't make happy potential customers; they'll look and look, not get it, and end up with an uneasy and unidentifiable feeling. Not what you want potential customers to feel until after they've written the check. Maybe I'm just especially dense today? but I believe that it's best to be utterly unambiguous or completely abstract where logotypes are concerned.

While I'm a on typographical nigglefest, I'd like to point out the kerning between the M and the I is off; it would be a good spot for a ligature if you keep that font (and can find an appropriately simple X.)

I'm not trying to imply by either comment that those issues spoil its visuals                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               to any significant degree; far from it. What I see and hear make me hungry! But I do feel that a little finessing in those areas would add just that last little bit of polish, especially the logo; at this point in the company's life image is something.

And yes, I'd be happy to help tweak it if desired.

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## Daniel Nestlerode

I had the chance to play #3 at SuperGrass this weekend...

If #3 can be taken as an example of the quality of NewMAD's output, Peter is spearheading the creation of some fine instruments. The mandolin has a surprisingly warm sweet sound and a lot of chop. It responded well to both melody playing and chording, chopping and strumming. It's quite loud. Held its own in the Buffalo Brothers room amongst all of the hubub and guitar picking.

I liked the feel of the unfinished carbon fiber that I could touch with my little finger through one of the F holes. It's cool stuff. Wondering if there'll be a French polish option. Or maybe a completely unfinished option?  

If you get a chance to play one of these you should jump on it! 

I'll be interested to watch Peter & Co. work out the details of creating a Loar inspired F style carbon fiber mandolin, and then twice as interested to play it. 

Daniel

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## ErikAitch

> I had the chance to play #3 at SuperGrass this weekend...
> 
> If #3 can be taken as an example of the quality of NewMAD's output, Peter is spearheading the creation of some fine instruments. The mandolin has a surprisingly warm sweet sound and a lot of chop. It responded well to both melody playing and chording, chopping and strumming. It's quite loud. Held its own in the Buffalo Brothers room amongst all of the hubub and guitar picking.
> 
> I liked the feel of the unfinished carbon fiber that I could touch with my little finger through one of the F holes. It's cool stuff. Wondering if there'll be a French polish option. Or maybe a completely unfinished option?  
> 
> If you get a chance to play one of these you should jump on it! 
> 
> I'll be interested to watch Peter & Co. work out the details of creating a Loar inspired F style carbon fiber mandolin, and then twice as interested to play it. 
> ...


I am SO jealous!

If Rainsong's published schedule is any indication, the resin used to laminate isn't very UV resistant. For an indoors only axe, that would probably be ok, but it needs some kind of sunblock, I think.

Hmmm: I know there are lots of naked carbon fiber slope racers around, and I don't think I ever saw one go chalky... so I could be wrong. :b~~~

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## Peter Mix

We've already changed the font for the logo for the very reason you mentioned, Erik. It looked good on paper, but it just didn't translate well. As far as the headstock is concerned, I love how it looks, but if a customer wanted an ebony overlay, it's easily done.
 # #Carbon fiber cases are very appealing. I saw a line of cf guitar cases at NAMM that were gorgeous, but at $1100 apiece, I don't know how big the market will be. If cf mandolin cases can be built at a moderate price point, they'll be well received.
 # #Strap buttons will be installed on the Mix A4 and A5. I put one on #1, but never got around to installing them on #2 and #3. I was just too excited to play them to stop and install strap buttons.
 # # #Yes, carbon fiber needs UV protection, so it cannot be left unfinished. We're going to start on the F5 in a couple of weeks and I can hardly wait! Some lines may need to be softened a bit as cf doesn't really like tight curves and sharp points, but I know we can build a gorgeous and great-sounding F5. Stay tuned!
 # # # # # # # # # # # # # # cheers, Peter

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