# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Just found a Lyon and Healy Style B

## hopefor4

Number 250.  My Grandfather just passed last month, and upon clearing his things, I came across the historical facts that my Great Grandfather was a concern Mandolin player.  Included in all his show programs, degrees, music etc, was a BEAUTIFUL Lyon and Healy Style B number 250.  I don't know anything about these instruments, and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of what to do as far as selling it.  I would LOVE to see it go to someone that would really appreciate it, so when I came across this through my google search, I thought I would ask!

Thanks!  

Michelle

----------


## EdSherry

You can put it up for sale here on the Cafe in the classified section [always a good choice], or try to sell it through any of a number of stores that specialize in high-quality acoustic instruments.  

Some of the ones I've had good experiences with include Gryphon Stringed Instruments (Palo Alto, CA), Elderly Instruments (Lansing, MI), Gruhn Guitars (Nashville, TN), Mandolin Brothers (Staten Island, NY), and Matt Umanovs (Greenwich Village, NYC).  There are lots of others.  

If you contact them, they can give you an idea of what they'd try to sell it for and what commission they'll take on the sale.

Here's a link to a book about pre-war Washburn instruments (Lyon & Healy was one of their brands),  Look at p. 114 for a description of the labels used during various time periods:  it might help you to date yours.

http://books.google.com/books?id=E8I...e+2442#PPP1,M1

----------


## barney 59

The style b was produced from about 1915 to 1925. You should post a picture of it.  Condition means alot & I've seen really excellent ones go for about $2000. There is a little fan club for Lyon and Healy A's and B's. Do you have any old photos of it maybe in an orchestra setting with Grandpa? People buying old instruments often also like the history that goes with them. They'll pay for that as well and that can raise the value. Does it have the little pop out stand on the bottom? Alot of people come to this sites classifieds to look for mandolins by the way.

----------


## mrmando

If it's been sitting for a while, it would be a good idea to take it to a repair shop to see if it needs any work: braces or seams reglued, cracks cleated, etc. Don't take it to just any old guitar shop -- let us know where you're located and someone will recommend a qualified repair technician. That person can write down a description of any problems and give you a repair estimate, as well as an idea of the value. 

I am _not_ saying you should get it repaired, unless it's completely unplayable in its present condition. A typical buyer would want to get the instrument from you as you found it, and then decide for himself/herself where to have it worked on. 

You may want to have it appraised, but remember: A shop owner who appraises an instrument for $X,XXX is counting on displaying it for a year and having his/her customers come and try it out. If you try to sell it yourself for $X,XXX, you may not get any bites, but you might well be able to sell it for 75-80% of $X,XXX. The appraisal does not establish what an instrument is "worth," only what the appraiser thinks he/she can sell it for. You can always start at $X,XXX and work your way down until it sells. 

I know I'd personally be interested in any Style B that comes along, as would a number of other people here, so we do hope you put it in the Classifieds. Meanwhile you're welcome to post photos of it. 

As for the concert programs, music, and other memorabilia, they're also of great interest to collectors. You should decide what you want to keep for yourself and start another thread about those items. Even if you don't want to sell them, the historians among us might be interested in digital copies.

----------


## woodwizard

I have a fiddle player friend that has a very nice large vintage collection of instruments and one of them is an early Style B.  I have played it on several occasions and aside from the very short neck to me it was pretty sweet.  But his Monty and 1920 F4 gets most of my playing time when I'm over there. Norman Blake has a nice Style B he plays sometimes.

----------


## EdSherry

What Martin said.  -- Ed

----------


## atetone

Michele, that is a very nice find.
Give us all a thrill and post some pictures.
Then,,, put it on the classifieds here on this site.

----------


## Django Fret

They don't come up for sale too often, but on eBay, I've seen them go from the low $2,000 range to over $2,500 depending on the condition.  The economy is not in your favor right now to get top dollar, and you might even consider waiting until after tax time before you try sell it.  There is one listed right now on a UK mandolin site for the equivalent of $2,835.23 (today's exchange rate) plus shipping.  

250 is an early number which might help make it more desirable to some players.  Provenance that you such as your grandfather's programs and occasions where he might have played it would also add to the desirability in my opinion.  You might also want to contact any mandolin orchestras in your area to see if anyone could give you a better idea of what it could be worth.  They also usually have a lot of very dedicated players that would be the kind of people who would really appreciate it.

Good luck and keep us posted how things turn out!

----------


## JEStanek

For a somewhat rare instrument to have enthusiasts about, this is about the center of the mandolin universe.  Please post pictures and once you get a feel for pricing, take advantage of the free classifieds section.

Jamie

----------


## hopefor4

Thanks for all the advice everyone!  So much to learn, I find it all fascinating!  I really enjoy the learning opportunities life throws at you  :Smile: 

I will work on getting a price, and I will post pictures later in the week, the Mandolin is at my Grandfather's condo, and I am meeting with an antiques appraiser for the contents on Monday, perhaps he will have an idea.

Have a wonderful weekend!

Michelle

----------


## Bob A

No one has mentioned it yet, but these mandolins came in two different scale lengths, which would probably make a difference to a buyer, though probably not in pricing.

You should measure the distance from the nut to the bridge, (this would be the length of the vibrating string. It will be either 13 inches or 14 inches, approximately), and mention it in any advertisement.

----------


## mrmando

If it's an earlier L&H it's likely to have the longer scale. The shorter ones came later. 

I wouldn't put too much faith in what an antique appraiser says about musical instruments. It's a highly specialized market that general antique dealers don't seem to understand very well. Sometimes in antique malls you'll see a $1,000 price tag on an instrument that isn't worth more than $150. Not long ago a Gibson mandolin appeared on eBay that was an obvious fake -- but the seller had an appraisal from someone at a local Antique Roadshow-type event, and wouldn't listen to anyone else. By all means ask the appraiser for an opinion on the Style B, but take it with a grain of salt.

----------


## atetone

Yes, Martin is dead on there in regards to antique dealers/appraisers,,, some might have a clue about vintage instruments but generally they just feel as though they have to say something to prove that they are knowledgable.
The real pros are here on this message board.

----------


## Adam Tracksler

you should keep it and learn how to play it.

----------


## Bob DeVellis

Michelle - If you're comfortable saying what general part of the country you're in, people can perhaps direct you to a local source of reliable information.  A hands-on inspection would be useful not only for determining value but to make sure that there aren't any structural issues.  Until structural integrity is determined, I'd recommend that you not tune it to pitch.  If there were a problem, that could make it much worse.  Generally, these are pretty durable instruments but I'd still have someone look it over to be sure.  There are excellent repair people in many (although certainly not all) parts of the country who will understand and respect an instrument of this type.  On the other hand, many music shops will have absolutely no clue about this type of instrument and may give very bad advice.

This is a nice and fairly valuable instrument.  As both a family keepsake and an object of worth, it deserves the care and knowledge that a qualified shop can give it.  You've made an excellent move in that direction by consulting this site and there are many here who can give you very good advice.

----------


## hopefor4

Thanks again for the further advice.  I have of course spent some time investigating it on the internet, this site definately my first choice!  I can't seem to find to much on them, as there doesn't seem to be many around.  I would love the name of a reputable person to advise, as I mentioned, it looks to be in beautiful condition for something that is so old!  It is in the original case, and I think that helped protect all these years.  I am in the Toronto Canada area if you have any info for me!

Thanks again everyone!

Michelle

----------


## JEStanek

Michelle, Go to 12th Fret right in Toronto.  They should be able to help you.  Good luck. Unless you need the cash, keeping it in the family is a very honorable thing to do as well.  It's a fun instrument that is versatile across almost all styles of music.

Jamie

----------


## Schlegel

Yep, that's a real heirloom!  You can be proud to pass down a gem like that.  IMO, that's just the right kind of thing for a family treasure... worthy of being taken care of, but not so valuable that people feel they have no choice but to sell it.

Kailo

----------


## mrmando

Another vote for the Twelfth Fret. No, I haven't actually been there, but the place has a great reputation, and you can tell from the Web site that they know vintage instruments.

----------


## EdSherry

I echo the suggestion of the Twelfth Fret in Toronto.  Over the years, I've bought a number of instruments from them while visiting Toronto.  Good, knowledgeable and (in my experience) honest people .  -- Ed

----------


## Fretbear

My experience with places like the 12th Fret, are that invariably the instrument will be pronounced as "not worth very much", at least until they buy it, clean it and turn around to sell it for lots more than you received as a "rare vintage gem anyone would be proud to call their own.." (I'm from Toronto, and know how these places work, please don't try to convince me otherwise...) If they would sell it for you on commission, then it might possibly work more in your favour, but you will do much better with a private sale. Take excellent detailed photographs of the instrument from every angle and let the instrument sell itself here in the 'Cafe classifieds, which are checked regularly by interested people from around the globe.

----------


## EdSherry

Fretbear -- I don't know what your experience with "how these places work" is, or how much you've dealt with the folks at The Twelfth Fret in the past.  I don't live in Toronto, but I used to visit Toronto relatively frequently in the past on business, and I always had good experiences with them.

They do take in instruments instruments for sale on consignment, and in my experience their instrument descriptions are very accurate.

I agree completely with Martin that a typical "antiques appraiser" is far less likely to know what it's worth than the folks at the Twelfth Fret are.  Antiques appraisers by nature have to be generalists, valuing everything from silverware to paintings to furniture, to musical instruments from pianos to trombones.  The folks at the Twelfth Fret are specialists.  

Is it possible that the instrument could fetch more in a private sale?  Sure.  But they have both a website and a retail store that will advertises the instrument to lots of people who would otherwise never hear of the instrument for sale, and I suspect that their commission percentage is reasonable (though I don't have first-hand knowledge of their commission structure).  

And in my experience, lots of potential buyers feel more comfortable buying a valuable instrument from an established store with a reputation to uphold than they do buying "sight-unseen" from a private seller -- even one who has provided good photos of the instrument.  Photos can't reveal everything (e.g., loose braces).

In any case, I'd strongly recommend that the OP take the instrument in to them and have them look at it before proceeding further.

And, of course, I had previously recommended listing it in the Cafe Classifieds once the OP knows what she has and has a better idea of what it's likely to be worth.

----------


## mrmando

The recommendation to take the instrument to a shop is primarily to have its condition evaluated and see whether it needs repairs; secondarily to get an idea of its value; and a distant third for possible consignment. 

Once Michelle is able to post photos and has more details about the condition (i.e., an in-hand description from Twelfth Fret), I expect several of us will be willing to chime in on what we might expect to pay. I haven't mentioned any hard numbers yet because I'm waiting for those details. The hard numbers that _have_ been mentioned thus far strike me as accurate in a general sense.

There are two ways to consign an instrument: (a) sell it outright to the dealer, as Fretbear describes above; or (b) obtain a written contract from the dealer stating the dealer's sale price and commission, and waiting to receive your money until the instrument sells. One will probably get a better deal with (b), as well as avoiding the potential sense of betrayal if a dealer buys the instrument for $X and sells it for $3X. 

Selling it oneself via the Classifieds can be more profitable than either (a) or (b). I wouldn't do (a) unless I were desperate for the cash, and even then I would never do (a) with any dealer who didn't also offer (b) as an option.

----------


## EdSherry

What Martin said.  -- Ed

----------


## atetone

Folkway Music in Guelph seem like a knowledgable shop also.
They have sold some great vintage mandolins over the years.

----------


## hopefor4

I have finally gotten around to getting some pictures of my Mandolin.  Would love to hear your opinions on it!  Hope you like them!

Michelle

----------


## mrmando

Appears to be the longer-scale version. It has the original case. It seems to be in very good condition, and I don't see evidence in these photos of any serious problems. I am glad to see that the tailpiece is all there and in good shape ... a tailpiece alone can be worth more than US$300.

You posted a photo of one of the sides -- the bass side (e.g., the one closest to the heavier strings). I'd like to see a photo of the treble side. Some Lyon & Healys had a little gizmo that folded out of the treble side, so that a male player could stabilize the mandolin while playing by inserting the gizmo into his vest pocket. I'm guessing this instrument doesn't have one of these, but you could check the treble side to be sure. 

US$2,000-2,200 seems like a reasonable range of asking prices, should you choose to sell. Do let us know once you've had it checked out for any problems.

----------


## hopefor4

Here is a picture of the other side you asked about.

----------


## mrmando

So it does have the pull-out peg. Very cool.

----------


## atetone

Very nice. I have seen more attractive back woods in lots of these but that is nit-picking.
Very good find.

----------


## Rick Turner

Those are just gorgeous instruments.   Love 'em.

----------


## mtucker

very niiiice. keep it. unless you really need the cash ... it will only appreciate over time provided it's cared for.  :Mandosmiley:

----------


## 8ch(pl)

I actually like the body shape and symetrical points on this one better than the Asymetrical points on some Lyon and Healy A models.  This is a nice instrument.  I wish I could have inherited one.

----------


## wildpikr

> you should keep it and learn how to play it.


I'll second this vote!  Just get it set up and you're on your way...no questions about/shopping for an instrument since you have a nice one already... :Mandosmiley:

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

The Asymmetrical points are on the "newer" models - when they put the Washburn label inside.  Symmetrical points date this to pre-1921.

----------


## delsbrother

I am also curious to know whether there were any photos of your relative and/or the orchestra to which he belonged. Orchestras like to take group photos, and there are usually other interesting instruments to be seen in such photos.

----------


## hopefor4

Time has been scares here, I am still working on settling the estate issues etc. with a close date on the condo this Saturday!  Following that I will have time to look into a few things, and post some more pictures I hope!  I am also instressed in finding out where my Great Grandfather played etc.  My son is a history buff so he and I can bond over this project!  :Smile: 

Michelle

----------


## guitharsis

Such a beautiful instrument and so much history and sentiment attached.  Another vote for keeping it in the family.  You or your son may decide to learn to play.

----------

