# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  How much would you pay for a pick?

## Earthwood

Some people will pay .35 cents, some will pay $35... What are you willing to spend on pick?

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## Handy Hummingbird

If there's a high likelihood the pick will enhance my technique, tone and volume then I think $35-$40 is probably the ceiling within my means.  Anything higher than that then the ramifications of losing it end up being financial as well as tonal  :Crying:

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## ourgang

I've paid the $35 for a Blue Chip pick, TD-50, bought it about three years ago.  I've never regretted this purchase.  The pick has a way of pulling the tone out of the guitar like no other pick I've used, including the real tortoise shell (bought a couple of those in my day also).  I've had it about three years and the wear on it is just barely visible.  Should be good for another ten years.  Only pick I use on my guitars but don't care much for it on the mandolin.  I use a Dunlop 1.14 on the mando.  When it comes to my music, I buy the very best that I can afford at the time, I use only Elliott and my original McKinney Tony Rice capos.

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## J Mangio

Golden Gate...around a Buck on e-bay does it for me.

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## Earthwood

I have a blue chip and couldn't be happier.  I figure it is no different than someone spending alot on a bow for violins, cellos, etc...

I have been researching different materials for making picks, and it is amazing how expensive some of the picks are vs. how cheap the materials are to buy.  I have been considering buying a sheet of TIVAR1000 and working with someone to CNC some picks out of it.  I can get the sheet shipped to my house for $60, and if I pay $100 to have my pick design cut out, I can get 650 picks for $160.

There is another guy selling TIVAR picks and is charging $25 each, so a batch of 650 would yield $16,250.  Subtract the the $160, plus $7 for little ziplock bags, $20 for business cards in each bag, $100 for envelopes, maybe $400 for postage and your left with $15,563.  The only work having to be done is to finish sanding each pick to remove sharp edge which is maybe a 1 weekend project, and then the next weekend pre-bag all the picks with business cards.  Throw in some money for a website, some marketing at some bluegrass festivals, etc... and your still looking at a VERY hefty profit.

Not that I have looked into this kind of thing at all... :Whistling:

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## abuteague

My answer to this question has changed over time.

Under a dollar - Early on in my learning, I saw no point in paying more than 50 cents. I felt no pressure to play a 'recommended' pick, or to emulate anyone else's style or habits. I was in this stage for 10 years.

$5 - A few years later I tried out a couple of picks that famous people use. "Hmm. They like this one, I'll give it a shot. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me." I trained myself to like those picks because I trusted their judgement/advertising. I didn't see any real benefit to paying up to $12 for a pick. I'd reach into my collection and play what I had in my hand. I played in this stage for 5 years.

$35 - Blue Chip. I figured I'd splurge and try it out as an experiment. Possibly it would be a waste of money. If I liked it, it would be expensive. I was blown away by a pick for the first time ever. Wow. Passages I could not play fast enough were now not a problem. It was the first time that the friction of the pick on the strings was just right for me. For me, it is as close to perfection as I have experienced. Other picks now are awkward, catch on the strings wrong, and otherwise slippery. I will not play any other pick. I've been enjoying BC picks for about 5 years.

I have a fiddle and it costs more than $35 just to get it re-haired. I've played mandolin with a piece of plastic I found on the ground or a cut out of a piece of someone's plastic id. So free is an option. When I hear someone play, I don't judge it based on the pick they use. I learned from my middle phase of chasing down what other people play that it might just be hype and advertising and sales. There are plenty of expensive picks that don't do it for me.

In answer to the thread question... I'd pay what it takes to have a pick that works for me.

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David Rambo, 

Tommy Berry

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## Capt. E

I bought two Blue Chips and have enjoyed them very much (lost one, darn it). Still have the 50 3R with three different points.
Probably will never buy another (though never say never) since I found "Papa's Picks" at 1/3 the price. http://www.guitaradoptions.com/papas_picks/
These are made from casein with the same properties as tortise shell. They are every bit as good as the Blue Chip picks (IMHO) except for the fact that they are somewhat smaller.  I like the medium-heavy and heavy weights. 

So, my current price threshold for picks is around $15.

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Tim Pike, 

Tommy Berry

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## Mandobart

Like everyone, I got a bunch of picks.  I do like my blue chip; but to me it's not enough better than the Wegens, GG, and Tortex etc. that I've always played on to go to any special lengths to get more.  The price isn't that big a deal to me; none of us can be pursuing this work/hobby/avocation to try and save money.  My current favorite pick is a great big thick Dunlop Americana that a fellow cafe member sent me to try.  The tone is fine, but the volume is way more than any other pick I've used.  Whenever you think picks cost too much go out and price some fiddle bows...I know guys who spend more on their bows than most of us spend on our instrument!

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Tommy Berry

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## Shelagh Moore

Probably less than £1. I've tried many picks over 45 years and gave my two Wegens away... they were good but not the best for me. The picks I prefer now are Dunlop Ultex, followed closely by Japanese Kasho celluloids. For a few things I use an old TS pick I've had for 30 years and I quite like the Pro-Plecs that are included with Jazzmando strings.

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## Steve Ostrander

If I thought it would significantly improve my playing, I'd pay a lot. In my case, the money would be better spent on lessons.

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## journeybear

_Pay_ for a pick? Who pays for picks? Why would you pay for a pick when they're so easy to swipe?  :Confused: 

OK, I'm kidding! Guys! Geez!  :Laughing: 

I'm in the 35¢ camp. Seems to me I was seeing them 2-3 for a buck. Maybe the Dunlops I like  - 1.5mm or 2mm - were about a buck. But I never have seen the point in spending more than that for a piece of plastic, however high-tech they claim to be. Certainly not on spec. Which is not to say I didn't enjoy that Wegen for a year, though that was mostly because it was of a similar thickness and also big enough for a solid grip - plus the little holes helped there - but it was a gift. Sad to see it go (no idea how I lost it), but I just dug out my good old Dunlops and I'm back in action.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Ron McMillan

Not much.

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## JeffD

> Some people will pay .35 cents, some will pay $35... What are you willing to spend on pick?


I will assume this a legitimate question, and not an instigation to an innevitable lock down.

I will restate the question:

Are you willing to spend one tenth as much, ONE TIME, on something that enhances your tone and playability, as you would willingly spend to set up your mandolin properly.

Are you willing to spend a quarter as much, ONE TIME, on something that enhances your tone and playability, as you would willingly spend MONTHLY on lessons?

Are you willing to spend a tenth as much, ONE TIME, on something that enhances your tone and playability, as you would SEVERAL TIMES A YEAR on festivals?

Are you willing to spend as much, ONE TIME, on something that enhances your tone and playability, as you spend on Netflix EVERY MONTH?

Are you willing to spend as much, ONE TIME, on something that enhances your tone and playability, as you blow at the diner ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH?

Are you willing to spend as much, ONE TIME, on something that enhances your tone and playability, as you spend EVERY WEEK on cigarettes, whisky, waffles and ice cream, Batman Comics or other indulgences of dubious long term value? 

 :Disbelief:

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## Denny Gies

Paid $35 for real T-shell and have not regretted it.  Love the sound and feel.

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## JeffD

You don't have to give up waffles and ice cream entirely. Just once.

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## JeffD

And I am not sensitive to the argument that you lose your picks, so its more of a consumable than a one time expenditure. Just stop losing them. You don't lose cell phones, remote car starter buttons, mp3 players, or other small losable expensive items. Not twice you don't.

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## Bill Snyder

I am pretty sure I have never spent as much as a dollar on a pick, but I don't know that my playing warrants spending any more than that.
Of course that may mean I don't have any business responding to this thread.  :Confused:

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## JeffD

> I am pretty sure I have never spent as much as a dollar on a pick, but I don't know that my playing warrants spending any more than that.
> :


Have you tried someone's high end pick. You may find it enhances your playing to a new level of warranting.  :Smile:

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## foldedpath

> And I am not sensitive to the argument that you lose your picks, so its more of a consumable than a one time expenditure. Just stop losing them. You don't lose cell phones, remote car starter buttons, mp3 players, or other small losable expensive items. Not twice you don't.


Right, it does require an attitude adjustment if you're used to buying inexpensive picks by the bag. I made that transition after trying my first expensive pick, a Red Bear, and then later settling on a Blue Chip model. One learns to develop consistent habits in pick storage and handling, to avoid continually losing picks. Sometimes it takes losing one or two, before that kicks in (it did for me).

On the other hand, I don't think the more expensive picks ever completely lose their "consumable" status, due to the small size. All you have to do is accidentally drop one through the boards of a deck at a dockside restaurant, for example. And even picks like the Blue Chip suffer some wear and change of texture at the picking surface. 

I've owned four Blue Chips in the last few years. I lost one due to carelessness (before getting my "pick management routine" down), and sold off another one that wasn't the right shape for me. I now keep two identical ones in rotation as my main and backup picks. Due to the wear cycle, I think I might be on a program of buying a new one every two years or so, unless I find a way to restore the original bevel (a subject for another thread). That's a small price to pay.

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## Elliot Luber

When you buy a $35 pick, it's amazing at how well you are able to track it suddenly.

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## shortymack

I was a pick loser as well for as long as I could remember, until I got a couple of Blue Chips. Somehow you always seem to know and care where they are. BTW regarding the OP's question, 40 bucks. Like everyone else when I first heard of the 40 dollar pick thought 'thats crazy no way' until I tried one. 40 times better than an ultex? Nope, but the law of diminishing returns is something we just deal with as musician's.

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## Charley wild

> When you buy a $35 pick, it's amazing at how well you are able to track it suddenly.


It's also amazing how better you sound! I know if I spent $35 on a pick I'D sound much better! :Smile:

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## Bill Snyder

JeffD, I don't know anyone that plays mandolin, so no I have never tried a high end pick.

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## journeybear

Gee whiz, Jeff! I never really thought of it before, but context can be a real buzz kill!  :Crying:  I mean, if you put almost any kind of expenditure in the right context it can be made to seem justifiable. For instance, the $200 I sweated over paying for a used amp paid for itself in a gig and a half, but if I had paid twice as much and gotten a new one I wouldn't be having the problems I have been with it (maybe), and that would have paid for itself in three gigs. Which out of a lifetime of gigs isn't that much. Right? So a pick that costs as much as a steak dinner for yourself and the SO is justifiable if it lasts you years, as it works out to not so much per year. Right? Like that Wegen I mentioned. I was planning to get years out of it, owing to its hardness and size, which would have meant a long time for it to wear down and be unusable. Until I lost it, of course ... Oh well!

Then again, when I dropped the amp off at the store for the repairman to give it the once-over, they had a little dish of odds and ends picks there for whomever/whatever, including a Dunlop 2mm mandolin pick (I guess - one of those small ones). I left that, but helped myself to a couple of Fender guitar picks, one heavy, one extra heavy (possibly - lettering is worn off). These should last me the rest of the decade, maybe the rest of my life, and the price was so right. With the money I saved I might just treat myself to a lobster dinner, never mind the steak!  :Grin:

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## pjlama

I've spent $50 and felt it was worth, I do have several BC picks. I dunno, it's all very subjective. I do lose one once in a while and it's a pretty big bummer with the expensive ones.

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## Earthwood

> When you buy a $35 pick, it's amazing at how well you are able to track it suddenly.


My Blue Chip is ALWAYS slipped into the strings.  I won't lose that one!

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## mandobassman

I love when this subject comes up.  People seem to think that a pick shouldn't be expensive because it is small.  After all, "it's just a  pick".  Well, it's a tool that is just as important as the instrument or the strings.  All of these combine to create the tone each player is looking for.  I have use flatwound strings for the last 15 years, and until a year ago I used Thomastik.  Lots of people think it's crazy to spend nearly $40 on a set of strings, but until the D'Addario flatwounds came out, the TI's were the only strings that gave me the sound I was after. The cost didn't matter.  Same with picks.  I tried a couple of the Blue Chips.  Loved the tone and feel, but ultimately used a custom-made Wegen because the BC didn't have the volume I needed.  Now, the Wegen I use at $15 each, seems like a bargain.  But the cost shouldn't matter, unless of course you can't afford them.  If tone matters to you, buy the best you can afford.

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## JeffD

A mandolinner named Dave,
Found a flat rock in a cave,
It was too bulky and thick,
To use as a pick,
But think of the money he saved!

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houseworker, 

Ted Eschliman

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## JeffD

I wrote a blog on this topic, so I won't report it here, but there is no such thing as a free puppy. It seems to me that if a one time $35.00 for a pick seems onerous, then a one time expense of $500.00 give or take, should have been entirely out of the question. And many of us trying to save a few bucks on a pick have spent much more than $500 on our second or third manodlin.

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## guitarpath

> I love when this subject comes up.  People seem to think that a pick shouldn't be expensive because it is small.  After all, "it's just a  pick".


Exactly. 

Why people minimize and devalue the impact of picks is beyond me. 

This analogy seems apt. A pick to mandolin is like a bow to a violin. Ever price a violin bow?

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## mandroid

So another BC pick thread.. by a different name..  :Whistling:

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## Cheryl Watson

The Blue Chips are my limit and I only have four.  I buy them by saving up and rolling my quarters and dimes, at least that is my reasoning behind paying so much money for a pick!  I've seen stone picks that were gorgeous and much more expensive, but I doubt they have the tone and stone is too heavy, I think.

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## Steve G

I've spent 40 on TS. Bought a BlueChip TPR60 one time and let it go after a bit, just too bright. Like ProPlecs but always go back to my TS for both mando and guitar. I've never completely lost one but came close.

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## greg_tsam

I used to buy the cheapest shoes available b/c I thought they all do the same job.  Then I realized not all shoes and boots are made equal and don't mind spending $100 or more on a quality product that save strain on my body, helps me perform better and lasts a long time doing it.  I started the same way with picks and now own a BC and knew I had to have one and that it was worth it the minute I played my buddies.

Sometimes I still buy a cheap pair of flip flops for $2, lots of people do, but I know there is something better out there for me and I'm willing to pay.

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## foldedpath

Just having a little fun here, running the numbers....

One Blue Chip pick is roughly *.007%* the cost of my mandolin (Lebeda F5). 

I use the same BC model on mandolin, guitar, and octave mandolin. I usually don't take more than two of that combination out on gigs or jams, but that still knocks the total cost down to *.003%* compared to the value of any two of those instruments.

If I add the value of my current compact "load it in a Subaru Forester" PA system, then on a typical gig the cost of a BC pick is something like *.002%* of the total, including two instruments.

To put that in _practical_, everyday terms for small-time gigging musicians like me, I've done bar gigs that paid barely the cost of 2 BC picks. I've also done weddings that would buy 20 or 30 BC picks for the gig. 

It's all relative. I'm fortunate to have nice instruments to play, and enough gigs to keep me in strings and picks... for now. It won't last forever. I'm pushing 60 (next year), and I'll use the best gear I can afford while these hands and ears keep working, and I can still keep playing music.

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## Paul Busman

> Like everyone, I got a bunch of picks.  I do like my blue chip; but to me it's not enough better than the Wegens, GG, and Tortex etc. that I've always played on to go to any special lengths to get more.  The price isn't that big a deal to me; none of us can be pursuing this work/hobby/avocation to try and save money.  My current favorite pick is a great big thick Dunlop Americana


That's my current favorite too.  I have the 3mm. It's extremely comfortable to hold due to it's matte finish and gently arched shape. I'm getting some arthritis in my right thumb joints, and I can hang onto this pick without having to grip it tightly.  Yes, I can get a lot of volume using this pick, but I can also play it softly.  At $5.99 locally for a pack of three, it's all the pick I need.

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Tommy Berry

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## Mando Nut46

I started with the cheap picks, .35 each. Then I decided one day to try a Red Bear pick and I was blown away with the new tone! I then decided to try a BC pick for comparison and was equally impressed , but the tone to me, wasn't as warm as the RB.
I still like playing with the BC but always gravitate back to the RB.
So for me, if I can get that much more tone,sound out of my mando, the $35 is a small price to pay.
Ron

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## journeybear

I think I have made it clear I don't buy into the extravagant pick mythology, and all the ratios and amortizations people want to trot out are all well and good, but if someone could convince me that a Blue Chip is 100 times better than a Fender or Dunlop, I'll shut up and say no more on the subject. But as Mark Twain said (actually, not some internet misattribution), "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." And the same statistics can be used to justify both sides of nearly any argument. $35 is two weeks' groceries for me. There's a statistic!  :Wink: 

That said, I must confess that whatever I may have o say on the subject may easily be considered mot, as I have never used a BC or RB or any such snazzy pick. I liked the Wegen , but I can't say it provided an appreciable improvement in tone. It was just a solid pick in my preferred thickness range, with a dependable grip. I get all that from a Dunlop and Fender also. And another reason it is quite alright to believe anything I have to say about this is moot - I am predominantly an electric player, and even when I play my acoustic, it is still through the amp and PA, not through a mike. Thus any boon a high-end pick might provide in tone (of which *I* remain unconvinced) would not apply to my performing set-up.

But if they work for you, spend all you want on those picks. It doesn't matter to me. Heck, I won't even buy a gallon of milk unless it's under $3 - and I do mean under $2.99 - just because it ain't right. And I sure ain't about to spend $3 on an artichoke either. Some expenditures just seem extravagant to me, and I can't shake the feeling someone is trying to put something over on me. I'll bet people who throw ha kind of money around are also the ones that the hi-fi stores used to make so much money off of with high-end speaker cables. Sure, you want to have the absolute best, but when marketing and hype outweigh common sense, I just sort of walk away.

Oh, and the least comfortable shoes I ever owned were Doc Martens. That was _not_ money well spent.

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## guitarpath

> I think I have made it clear I don't buy into the extravagant pick mythology,, and all the ratios and amortizations people want to trot out are all well and good, but if someone could convince me that a Blue Chip is 100 times better than a Fender or Dunlop, I'll shut up and say no more on the subject.


Unfortunately, price and quality are not necessarily linear. 

A Blue Chip is not "100 times better" (whatever that means and however one could quantify such a subjective metric as "better"). The price is what it is. It is up to the individual player to decide for themselves if it is worth the price. 

It is the same with mandolins. A The decent Chinese-made mandolin (Loar, Eastman, Kentucky) is 10-times less than a top-tier Gibson F-5L. Is the Gibson 10x better? I think not. But that does not mean that the Gibson is not worth the price to a prospective buyer.

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## foldedpath

> I think I have made it clear I don't buy into the extravagant pick mythology,, and all the ratios and amortizations people want to trot out are all well and good, but if someone could convince me that a Blue Chip is 100 times better than a Fender or Dunlop, I'll shut up and say no more on the subject.


Oh, c'mon... I prefaced that post by saying that the numbers were just for fun. The same numbers would apply to spending $35 in trying 35 different $1 picks. Which... come to think of it... I'm sure I've done over the years. 

The point was just that the relative cost is inconsequential, if you're playing anything more than an entry-level mandolin. And all the fiddlers will be jealous of the cost-benefit ratio, no matter what pick you choose.
 :Wink:

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## journeybear

Well, if someone wants to loan me a Blue Chip so I can check it out, I'll be happy to give it a whirl and write a review. And send it back in a timely fashion. I just don't see how a pick can really be all that, nor for that matter why it should cost that much. But I must admit I am curious - just not enough to shell out for one. I don't really have a horse in this race, I'm just trying to sort this out from what I see as a common sense viewpoint.

And yes, it's quite true that picks and strings are the least expensive components of a mandolinist's gear, so if one is looking for ways to improve one's sound, that seems an obvious place to start. hen again, there's always working on one's technique ...  :Whistling: 

BTW, I spent $35 today on getting my amp fixed. No problem there - _that_ was money well spent!  :Wink:

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## raulb

While I have bought things like Alaska Picks, I tend to get my picks from the free picks given out in guitar stores and at the Winter NAMM (avoid the biodegradable picks, they don't last).  Other than that, when I do buy one (haven't for a long time), I spend less than a buck.  I played a Blue Chip once and I still cannot understand why it was worth $35.

I remember when I first took up the dulcimer (30+ years ago) people used to agonize over the same thing, what kind of pick to use.  When it came out that Jean Ritchie, first lady of the mountain dulcimer, made her own picks out of coffee can lids, the discussion kinda stopped.

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## pjlama

> Well, if someone wants to loan me a Blue Chip so I can check it out, I'll be happy to give it a whirl and write a review. And send it back in a timely fashion. I just don't see how a pick can really be all that, nor for that matter why it should cost that much. But I must admit I am curious - just not enough to shell out for one. I don't really have a horse in this race, I'm just trying to sort this out from what I see as a common sense viewpoint.
> 
> And yes, it's quite true that picks and strings are the least expensive components of a mandolinist's gear, so if one is looking for ways to improve one's sound, that seems an obvious place to start. hen again, there's always working on one's technique ... 
> 
> BTW, I spent $35 today on getting my amp fixed. No problem there - _that_ was money well spent!


PM your address and I'll send you one, keep it a while, I have more than a few. I don't think it'll prove anything though, it's a matter of priorities. Priorities are different for each of us and not one of us can comment for one another. But for kicks I'd be happy to send one out for a month or two. BTW, I like my proplecs nearly as much so it's all a bunch of who-ha, let's do it for fun, I'll be interested to get your impressions.

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## journeybear

Cool beans! I must say, I do have this overreaching curiosity that gets me into some pretty odd situations. But life is about discovery, so I poke my way along and hope for the best. In this case, it will be worth it to find out once and for all what he fuss is all about; if I decide it is well-founded, then we will have succeeded in getting me to shut the #^¢% up about at least _one_ thing. It would be a start!  :Laughing:

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## shortymack

Hey, Ive never played any other f hole mando except for my MK. If I say how much all other more expensive ones could never be 100 times better, will someone send me theirs to play so I can change my mind???  :Chicken:  :Whistling:  :Mandosmiley:  :Popcorn:  :Laughing:

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## journeybear

It's worth a shot. Might want to brush up your delivery, though. Just a touch. But you never know ...  :Smile:

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## bmac

Two picks for a dollar is about right, I'd say. I like the green ones with the turtle. The sound is amazingly better than the yellow picks. But I'll have to admit the red picks sound decent. Just don't lose one!!! they cost 50 cents each.

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## greg_tsam

> Two picks for a dollar is about right, I'd say. I like the green ones with the turtle. The sound is amazingly better than the yellow picks. But I'll have to admit the red picks sound decent. Just don't lose one!!! they cost 50 cents each.


There's a joker in every crowd and this crowd is full of 'em.   :Grin:

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## Earthwood

> So another BC pick thread.. by a different name..


Actually, I was just curious how many people will actually pay premium prices for picks.  As I said, I have been considering buying some different materials and making some picks, but was curious how big the market actually is for them, and if it actually was a worthy venture.

I figure if I can make some great picks out of some great materials and offer them at a more affordable price, it would be a win win situation.  I was curious how many people would be willing to pay more than $1 for a pick, and how many people are already buying picks for $20+ that might be interested in the same quality materials at a lower cost.

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## Earthwood

And I'm not trying to bash more expensive picks either.  I have a Blue Chip CT55 and it is hands down the best pick I have ever used before. :Mandosmiley: 

I play faster and smoother with it and love the tone I get from it.  It really eliminates the metallic sound and lets the wood do the talking

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## pjlama

> Cool beans! I must say, I do have this overreaching curiosity that gets me into some pretty odd situations. But life is about discovery, so I poke my way along and hope for the best. In this case, it will be worth it to find out once and for all what he fuss is all about; if I decide it is well-founded, then we will have succeeded in getting me to shut the #^¢% up about at least _one_ thing. It would be a start!


My attorney is drafting a contract, once the contract is signed the pick will delivered by Brinks. This is gonna be fun  :Smile:

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## Jim

25 to 50 cents. Probably more if I needed one right now and didn't have one.

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## allenhopkins

I like Dunlop Ultex, so I'll pay a buck, give or take.

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## foldedpath

> Actually, I was just curious how many people will actually pay premium prices for picks.  As I said, I have been considering buying some different materials and making some picks, but was curious how big the market actually is for them, and if it actually was a worthy venture.


I think Blue Chip and a few other brands like Red Bear have proven that there is a market for a "premium" chip at a fairly high price point. However, you have to offer something truly special at that price. Blue Chip picks actually do feel and work differently than other picks -- not necessarily better in an absolute sense, that's a personal judgement call. But they are noticeably different than any other pick I've tried. 

The high price has a direct relationship to the cost of the high-tech synthetic material (which was identified in one of the longer BC threads here, somewhere). You may find that an alternative material also has a high cost that would reduce your profit margin. 

Speaking of alternatives, has anyone seen a carbon fiber pick? I wouldn't ordinarily think a laminate process would result in a thin enough pick, but I was recently shown a carbon fiber reed for the chanter of Scottish border pipes. The owner said it was expensive, but he was very enthusiastic about how much easier it was to play and keep in tune, compared to traditional reeds. It was very thin, but still had that characteristic black diamond CF pattern in the surface.

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## Shelagh Moore

_...has anyone seen a carbon fiber pick?_

Yes... I was given a carbon fibre/nylon Pickboy one but don't care for it too much. Too stiff.

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## Jim Garber

> I have been researching different materials for making picks, and it is amazing how expensive some of the picks are vs. how cheap the materials are to buy.  I have been considering buying a sheet of TIVAR1000 and working with someone to CNC some picks out of it.  I can get the sheet shipped to my house for $60, and if I pay $100 to have my pick design cut out, I can get 650 picks for $160.


What is TIVAR1000? Is it comparable to the material that BC picks are made of? I believe the material that BC picks are made from is Meldin. Is costs considerably more than the TIVAR1000 you mention.




> I bought two Blue Chips and have enjoyed them very much (lost one, darn it). Still have the 50 3R with three different points.
> Probably will never buy another (though never say never) since I found "Papa's Picks" at 1/3 the price. http://www.guitaradoptions.com/papas_picks/
> These are made from casein with the same properties as tortise shell. They are every bit as good as the Blue Chip picks (IMHO) except for the fact that they are somewhat smaller. I like the medium-heavy and heavy weights.


One reason I use the BC picks is that that are virtually indestructible. Esp when I play rhythm guitar I wear out ultem picks after one or two tunes. I still have my BC for over 2 years and it has relatively little wear.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the casein picks will break more easily and are esp harmed by moisture -- same with the Red Bear picks.

----------


## journeybear

> Actually, I was just curious how many people will actually pay premium prices for picks.  As I said, I have been considering buying some different materials and making some picks, but was curious how big the market actually is for them, and if it actually was a worthy venture.


Aha! Now I see! Well, I hope you have learned something from this, like perhaps put all the information out there in your first post. Otherwise, the next thing you know, you get all kinds of posts from Blue Chip owners. I swear, it's like a cult. "Blue Chip is the way. Here, try one." "It will make all the difference." "Your playing, even your whole life will be better." "It's what's been missing from your life." "It's all you need to become what you've always wanted to be." "Join us. Blue Chip is the way."

OK ... anyway ...  :Whistling:  It so happens that while at the local music store yesterday, I noticed a display of wooden picks - a plastic case with about two dozen compartments of guitar-pick sized picks of different woods in hardness grades. They were arranged from hard to soft, starting with lignum vitae, then two kinds of ebony, down to mahogany (I think, and certainly nothing as soft as pine or spruce), with numerical gradations of some sort of scale (not sure how these were determined) showing each wood's relative hardness. I don't recall the name of the maker, and I didn't try any of them, but it did seem very cool, especially all together like that. I think they were $5 each, not _too_ expensive, and certainly in keeping with the amount of work put into creating each one, presumably by hand. I especially liked the jet black ebony.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the casein picks will break more easily and are esp harmed by moisture -- same with the Red Bear picks.


I believe you are correct. Casein has been tried many times before.

----------


## sgarrity

Blue Chips are the best in my book and worth the money.  I have several.  Red Bears are junk.  If you buy one, be prepared for it to break.  At least three of mine did.

----------


## greg_tsam

If BC picks only cost a quarter I'd still use them.
 :Chicken:

----------


## Bill Baldridge

$35

----------


## JeffD

> At $5.99 locally for a pack of three, it's all the pick I need.


I would be willing to pay a lot more than that for a pick that was all I need.

----------


## JeffD

> I think I have made it clear I don't buy into the extravagant pick mythology, and all the ratios and amortizations people want to trot out are all well and good, but if someone could convince me that a Blue Chip is 100 times better than a Fender or Dunlop, I'll shut up and say no more on the subject. .


Well here is my deal. Its not for everybody, because we all play differently, on different instruments, and we all have different, overlapping, but different taste in tone. So I would never say whether the pick is worth it to you or anyone, or not. 

My whole point is that what ever that wonderful tone you want is, if a particular pick helps you get it, it is worth it. Achieving that tone is worth it. Is it 100 times better? Heck no. But the total amount spent is peanuts compared to the cost of a musical life, that saving money there is just a misplaced frugality. Lets say it another way, if it works, then the money saved on cheaper picks just ain't worth it. I could save up all that money spent in the course of a year, (I don't lose picks, ever, so its what, $20 bucks total every three or four years?), I can take that saved money and there is nothing I could buy with it that is worth sounding crummy for all that time. 

BC, Wegen, Red Bear are my goto picks. They do it for me. And getting it done is what is worth the money.

It ain't a myth that the pick makes a difference. Its a fact. A measurable, objective, verifiable fact. Whether the difference it makes is in the direction you want, and if its enough of a difference to pay for, well those are personal taste decisions.

Saving money on picks, to me, is like saving money on bourbon. Buying cheap bourbon is no savings. If the money matters that much, (and I know what its like when it does), then just don't buy bourbon.

----------


## journeybear

> My whole point is that what ever that wonderful tone you want is, if a particular pick helps you get it, it is worth it.


Now, this is a way of stating the argument with which I completely agree. While I remain unconvinced that a pick can be all that - and I repeat, I claim utter ignorance in this matter, having never encountered a Blue Chip - I am all in favor of getting the sound you want, however it is done and whatever it takes. My recent experience with buying a good amp showed me that the money spent was all worth it. And it only cost six Blue Chips.  :Wink:  If a pick is all that it takes for someone to get there, go there. I don't understand how a pick can do this, and think it's funny to think so, so I am having a bit of fun at all y'all's expense. I may well change my tune in a week, once I get to check one out, but I doubt it. For now.

I also quite agree with the point about cheap bourbon. I would also like to point out that no matter how many gallons of yellow mustard one may be offered, it will not be as worth having as one jar of good Dijon mustard. Quality trumps quantity, in most instances. Bound to be a break-even point, a lot of the time, though, but not with mustard or bourbon (unless you really have to get drunk and have a limited budget, but I don't think that's what we're talking about).

----------


## JeffD

[QUOTE]


> And yes, it's quite true that picks and strings are the least expensive components of a mandolinist's gear, so if one is looking for ways to improve one's sound, that seems an obvious place to start.


There is a huge difference here to be considered. That is that picks are a one time purchase, while strings are a consumable. . Saving money on picks saves you pocket change once. While a little savings on strings can save you a whole lot of money over time. I pretty much stick with my J-74s. On one mandolin I have the Thomastic Infeld Mittels, and I love them, but when they wear out I am not sure I am going to replace them in kind. 




> Then again, there's always working on one's technique ...


One thing has nothing to do with the other. I don't think there is anyone who is advocating that once you have the right pick you don't need to practice. You should work on your technique regardless. And on the other side, working on your technique does not make irrelevant the advantage of the right pick. Imagine how much better you would sound with the right pick and strings, no matter how much better you can get to sounding through practice and lessons.

----------


## JeffD

> Blue Chips are the best in my book and worth the money.  I have several.  Red Bears are junk.  If you buy one, be prepared for it to break.  At least three of mine did.


I love my Red Bears. The ultimate in the dark intimate sound I like. Tone wise perhaps even preferred over BC. 

I have never had one break. Never. My understanding is that you have to moisten it, and then physically fold it over. Perhaps keep it in your pocket too long.  I have heard this isn't good for my mandolin either.

I think with normal care and normal use a red bear will last for ever. Mine have.

----------


## JeffD

Its amazing. Let me ask - would you spend $100 on picks, if you knew you would never have to buy another pick again.  I mean, thats what it amounts to, I spent a little over $100 on a small assortment of high end picks once several (going on many) years ago, and I have not needed or wanted to buy another picks since. They don't wear, they don't break, and I don't lose them. An excellent deal if you ask me.

----------


## journeybear

> Then again, there's always working on one's technique ...





> One thing has nothing to do with the other. I don't think there is anyone who is advocating that once you have the right pick you don't need to practice. You should work on your technique regardless.


I get the distinct impression that some believe exactly that, that all they need to get better is to get a more expensive pick. I believe you stand a better chance of improving if you work on your technique, or just adjust it to netter suit your purposes. A clumsily utilized swanky pick isn't going to sound that much better than a clumsily utilized inexpensive one. Sounding better means playing better, more than using the best equipment. Well, up to a point. (Again, that break-even theory.) But I can't help believing that improving one's technique is more important, and $35 would be better spent on a lesson or two. Or a good bottle of bourbon (or two), so you can just spend a bit of time relaxing and playing and sorting a few things out about your playing. It's like the old saw about quite something else: It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it that counts.

----------


## greg_tsam

> Now, this is a way of stating the argument with which I completely agree. While I remain unconvinced that a pick can be all that - and I repeat, I claim utter ignorance in this matter, having never encountered a Blue Chip 
> 
> I don't understand how a pick can do this, and think it's funny to think so, so I am having a bit of fun at all y'all's expense. I may well change my tune in a week, once I get to check one out, but I doubt it. For now.


The point you admit you have no clue and no experience is the point where you say "Goodnight, Gracie!"

The second part about having fun at BC owners expense is actually going to be a lot funnier next month when you accept PJ's generous pick loaner and have to eat crow.  Better got get you a bucket of Grey Poupon right now.  You're gonna need it.

 :Disbelief:

----------


## journeybear

If I may briefly return to the OP, here is what I saw at the store, if I recall correctly: http://surfpick.com/ I don't see the variety display I mentioned (these seem to be mostly lignum vitae), and the price range is a good bit higher - $10-12 and up - but I'm pretty sure that was the name of the company.

And yeah, Greg, I don't know why no one has called me on that yet. Maybe it's because I have been putting in disclaimers all along.  :Wink:  And I wish I could stop posting on this, but it just seems irresistible somehow. I just ... can't ... stop. I am actually looking forward to learning I have been wrong all along about this, as a lot of experienced and well-intentioned posters swear by them (cult influence notwithstanding), and would prefer to believe, for their sake, there is something to all this. I just don't see it. Yet. Be sure and tune in next week, if anyone still cares at that point!  :Grin: 

And I was just about to make that same point about crow and mustard. Damn! You beat me to it! Well, some say it's good eatin', just like chicken, only black ...

----------


## shortymack

Better gear (whether picks or the instrument itself) does make you play and sound better. It inspires you. If it didn't everyone would be playing rogues with bread ties. Spending that money on a  lesson or a bottle of whiskey played on cheap gear will do nothing for you if you dread picking the thing up in the first place.

----------


## greg_tsam

> I get the distinct impression that some believe exactly that, that all they need to get better is to get a more expensive pick. I believe you stand a better chance of improving if you work on your technique, ...




Journeybear you're a wealth of fuel and fodder today.  First, no one is saying you don't need any musicality, just a BC and any 5 year old can play Bach flawlessly.  They're saying, I'm saying, it's a good tool to have in your toolbox and worth the money.  Are you the guy that buys all his tools from Harbor Freight?  I'm not.  If I need it on a regular basis then I invest in a good tool.  Same here.

How do you like your crow?  Well done?   :Smile: 




> It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it that counts.


Please tell me you don't really believe everything she tells you.  Just like your example, a better tool makes for a better job.

----------


## journeybear

Never had crow (as far as I know), but I was thinking the beer can method might be just the thing.  :Wink:  Not looking forward to the plucking part, though. If people had to pluck their own chickens or turkeys or geese or ducks (yes, I sorta said ''pluck their ducks''), poultry consumption would be way down.  :Chicken: 

But don't get your hopes up, just yet. I remain skeptical if open-minded. And while I am willing to put my beliefs on the line for the cause of truth and knowledge, I believe it is more likely my previously stated opinion will be borne out than discredited.  :Smile:

----------


## jesserules

"Tone"?

I like the tone(s) that Bill Monroe, Rudy Cipolla, Jesse McReynolds, Howard Frye, Dave Grisman, and Andy Statman have.  

None of them used a Blue Chip pick.

So, that's not the answer. 

I guess I'll just have to keep practicing.

----------


## JeffD

If we know anything about the journeybear, its that he is unfailingly genuine. When he does try a BC, it will be with an open mind I have not the slightest doubt, and if (if if if ) he loves it, I have no doubt that he will tell us.

----------


## journeybear

Why, thank you, kind sir! I believe this is a post with which I am in complete agreement!  :Grin:  Well, maybe ''unfailingly'' is a bit much, but I do try. Bear in mind, though, even if I give the Blue Chip a positive review, I will still be unlikely to go for one. During my trip to the music, in which I got a Blue Chip's worth of much-needed and worthy repairs on my amp, I also picked up a couple of more Fender-type picks, plus a Dunlop 2mm stubby, which, when added added to the Fender, Dunlop 1.5mm, Dunlop 2mm, and Dunlop 3mm in my current arsenal, plus the Dunlop 1.5mm I found stuck in my mandola's strings (Oh! _That's_ where it was!), should last me the rest of my life. So that Blue Chip will have its work cut out for it, if it is going to budge me from my current flush situation enough to consider buying one. But fortunately, this is a test, only a test. If it were a real emergency ...

----------


## JeffD

> "Tone"?
> 
> I like the tone(s) that Bill Monroe, Rudy Cipolla, Jesse McReynolds, Howard Frye, Dave Grisman, and Andy Statman have.  
> 
> None of them used a Blue Chip pick.
> 
> So, that's not the answer. 
> 
> I guess I'll just have to keep practicing.


I am going to have to take your word for it, because I have no idea what they used or use for a pick. Nor do I care, really. I mean I would listen to what someone so great might recommend, and I might even try it, but for the way I play and the things I like their pick might not match. However, I do know two things - 

1 - if there was some kind of magic pick invented that gave us the tone quality of these guys, we would be all over it whether they used it or not.  (Don't worry, I don't blieve there is or ever coiuld be.)

2 - I could duplicate in every detail what these guys use, every detail down to Bill's Hat, and I woudl not sound as good as they do, so emulating their equipment is no answer whatsoever. So you are right, I just have to keep practicing. But I tell you what, I am going to practice with the pick that is most playable and makes my mandolin sound the best.



2 -

----------


## foldedpath

> "Tone"?
> 
> I like the tone(s) that Bill Monroe, Rudy Cipolla, Jesse McReynolds, Howard Frye, Dave Grisman, and Andy Statman have.  
> 
> None of them used a Blue Chip pick.
> 
> So, that's not the answer. 
> 
> I guess I'll just have to keep practicing.


Well, if we're using the "argument from authority," then I guess if you like the tone of Chris Thile, Ricky Skaggs, Mike Marshall, Doyle Lawson, and Adam Steffy, who do use BC picks, then that's a reason to use them?

Nah, doesn't work for me either. 

All I did was try a bunch of different picks to find the one that I felt suited my playing. No more, no less. No claims that it's a substitute for woodshedding. Which, by the way, I don't think anyone has made here. Straw dog arguments are as bad as argument from authority. Just try 'em all, see what works for _you_. 

We're blessed with an abundance of choice that the older generation of players didn't have. Same as with mandolins, and not everyone is looking for the same thing anyway. I'm not sure 'Ol Bill would think much of my redwood-topped, Czech-made mandolin. But it works for me.

----------


## Buck

Some very good picks - other than BC's - are in the $30-50 range.  I'd pay that much pretty easily if I really liked the pick.  Anything approaching $100 would make me think twice, perhaps thrice.  Anything over $100 would probably not find its way home with me.

----------


## Earthwood

> What is TIVAR1000? Is it comparable to the material that BC picks are made of? I believe the material that BC picks are made from is Meldin. Is costs considerably more than the TIVAR1000 you mention.



TIVAR is a ultra high molecular weight polyethylene.  It is abrasion, corrosion and impact resistant and is self lubricating.  They use it alot for guide rails for chains on conveyor belts.  Here is a pick made from it being sold for $25.  

http://hufschmidguitars.bigcartel.co...tivar-plectrum

----------


## JeffD

> Bear in mind, though, even if I give the Blue Chip a positive review, I will still be unlikely to go for one. During my trip to the music, .. I also picked up a couple of more Fender-type picks, plus a Dunlop 2mm stubby, which, when added added to ...my current arsenal, should last me the rest of my life.   So that Blue Chip will have its work cut out for it, if it is going to budge me from my current flush situation enough to consider buying one.


Hey, when you fall in love, you stop dating. What can I say.   :Smile:

----------


## Josh Kaplan

> I figure it is no different than someone spending alot on a bow for violins, cellos, etc...
> 
> I have been researching different materials for making picks, and it is amazing how expensive some of the picks are vs. how cheap the materials are to buy.  I have been considering buying a sheet of TIVAR1000 and working with someone to CNC some picks out of it.  I can get the sheet shipped to my house for $60, and if I pay $100 to have my pick design cut out, I can get 650 picks for $160.
> 
> There is another guy selling TIVAR picks and is charging $25 each, so a batch of 650 would yield $16,250.  Subtract the the $160, plus $7 for little ziplock bags, $20 for business cards in each bag, $100 for envelopes, maybe $400 for postage and your left with $15,563.  The only work having to be done is to finish sanding each pick to remove sharp edge which is maybe a 1 weekend project, and then the next weekend pre-bag all the picks with business cards.  Throw in some money for a website, some marketing at some bluegrass festivals, etc... and your still looking at a VERY hefty profit.


As long as you are doing marketing research, here are my thoughts, free of charge:

Using the figures above, it sounds like your total costs for 650 picks will be $687, a little over a dollar per pick, not including your labor, which you estimate as two weekends, or the website or marketing at festivals. I would suggest charging $5.00 or $7.50 per pick.

If it were me, the question would not be "how much would you pay?" but "how much would make it worth my while?" Also, I would have to believe that I had a great product that I wanted to share with others.

----------

Earthwood

----------


## Earthwood

> As long as you are doing marketing research, here are my thoughts, free of charge:
> 
> Using the figures above, it sounds like your total costs for 650 picks will be $687, a little over a dollar per pick, not including your labor, which you estimate as two weekends. I would suggest charging $5.00 per pick.
> 
> If it were me, the question would not be "how much would you pay?" but "how much would make it worth my while?"


That is kinda the price point I was thinking.  I figure your average patron of a bluegrass festival will have at least $5 in their pockets, and it is a low enough cost that people might be willing to buy one to try.

----------


## JeffD

> If it were me, the question would not be "how much would you pay?" but "how much would make it worth my while?" Also, I would have to believe that I had a great product that I wanted to share with others.


I would charge what ever maximized sales. And hope like heck I could produce, manufacture, package, ship, advertise, and cover returns, pay for the website, pay booth and shelf fees, etc., etc., and make some profit, at that price.

----------


## catmandu2

Jeff, you've been nipping at the bourbon again haven't you..

----------


## JeffD

> Jeff, you've been nipping at the bourbon again haven't you..



Yea and its Knob Creek, perhaps the Wegen of bourbons?

----------


## Charley wild

If I WAS to buy a $35 pick what would I do with the 150 or so Fender heavies I ripped off from the music store I worked in years ago. I've only lost or worn out a half dozen since then! :Smile:

----------


## Bill Baldridge

A cheap pick is impossible to lose.

----------


## Mike Bunting

> Yea and its Knob Creek, perhaps the Wegen of bourbons?


Then Woodford Reserve is the Blue Chip of bourbon.  :Smile:

----------


## chip

> Paid $35 for real T-shell and have not regretted it.  Love the sound and feel.


I agree..that's what I pay and prefer! Made a big difference and just feels right. 1.5

----------


## Mike Snyder

I work for a living and paid $50 for my 80 thickness BC. The Red Bear (an old one, very thick but no graphics on it to tell, seems comparable to a Wegan 200) has been sucessfully super-glued after a simple straight break after getting scrunched in a closing case. Those and the Wegan Trimus 250 are in constant rotation on the mandolin. Strings and picks are the only way I know of to do the final dial-in on what you want your mandolin to sound like. Practice alone will effect what your playing sounds like.

----------


## JeffD

> Then Woodford Reserve is the Blue Chip of bourbon.



Quite possibly. A friend of mine loves it. I haven't tried it myself.

----------


## greg_tsam

> "Tone"?
> 
> I like the tone(s) that Bill Monroe, Rudy Cipolla, Jesse McReynolds, Howard Frye, Dave Grisman, and Andy Statman have.  
> 
> None of them used a Blue Chip pick.
> 
> So, that's not the answer. 
> 
> I guess I'll just have to keep practicing.


Yea, those guys traded, bought and sold entire mandolins to get what they wanted.  I guess you could also say that David Grisman would sound like David Grisman whether he played his personal mando or a $50 Rogue and I'm sure he would but would he want to?  The answer is no.  He's outgrown the $50 Rogue and now wants a better tool to express himself.  Same thing with Waverly tuners.  And BC picks.

They're not magic (schmergel devastor excluded), they're just better tools to facilitate musical expression.  If it makes life easier and you like it and can afford it, why not?

----------


## jesserules

> Yea, those guys traded, bought and sold entire mandolins to get what they wanted.  I guess you could also say that David Grisman would sound like David Grisman whether he played his personal mando or a $50 Rogue and I'm sure he would but would he want to?  The answer is no.  He's outgrown the $50 Rogue and now wants a better tool to express himself.  Same thing with Waverly tuners.  And BC picks.
> 
> They're not magic (schmergel devastor excluded), they're just better tools to facilitate musical expression.  If it makes life easier and you like it and can afford it, why not?


if you really think your plectrum makes as much difference to the sound you get as the mandolin itself ...

----------


## greg_tsam

> if you really think your plectrum makes as much difference to the sound you get as the mandolin itself ...


No, I don't.  I think it's a small piece of the puzzle but useful nonetheless.

----------


## Jared Heddinger

All this talk of BlueChips has me wondering. Are there any picks that cost MORE than a BC? I know in the world of violins there are bows in almost every price range, but are there picks there too? Or is the BlueChip material the ultimate pick so far?

----------


## JeffD

> All this talk of BlueChips has me wondering. Are there any picks that cost MORE than a BC? I know in the world of violins there are bows in almost every price range, but are there picks there too? Or is the BlueChip material the ultimate pick so far?


No, there are picks that are more expensive, made of natural materials.

----------


## pjlama

> No, there are picks that are more expensive, made of natural materials.


Those are my favorites but I seem to lose those, have a hard time finding them etc. I'm sending out j. Bear's BC tomorrow, I think he'll like it but probably not enough to buy one. $35 a pop is steep relative to what regular picks cost. That the problem, it's not the cost but the cost in relation to what other picks cost.

----------


## JeffD

> That the problem, it's not the cost but the cost in relation to what other picks cost.


Perhaps, but I think the real issue is that feeling you get when you suspect there is a lot of hype and kings new clothes going on, and the natural reluctance to join the bandwagon just because everyone seems to be.

I am a natural skeptical contrarian at heart, so believe me I understand. OTOH sometimes a knee jerk avoidence of the popular choice is as ridiculous as a blind following of the corwd. All I ask is that folks give high end picks an honest try. If its not right, thats fine, but reject it because its not for you, not because you saved a whole $30.00 one time. I have spent that much (and more) on a wink and a smile, much less 1000 or more positive postings.

----------


## journeybear

Well, yes, to a lot of what you said. Follows my line of thinking, pretty much. Also, I got a bit tired of my automatically gainsaying the notion of a high-end pick making _that_ much difference just because it defies my version of common sense. And sounding rather snarky in so doing. So thanks in advance to PJ for enabling me to make a determination on my own. And at a fraction of the cost - albeit at the cost of a couple-few Dunlops ...  :Wink:  So if this turns out to convince me of their merit, and I embark on a journey to satisfy my newly acquired PAS, PJ will have become an enabler. Hope he can live with that!  :Grin:

----------


## pjlama

I've been called worse, much worse  :Laughing:

----------


## greg_tsam

My first, second and 30th reaction was that it was too expensive.  It was only after trying it myself that I was converted.  All of a sudden it made sense and was worth it.

----------


## Miked

Over the last 4 years, I've purchased two BC picks and still have them both.  That averages out to $1.46 per month, so not too bad in that respect.

----------


## Mandobart

> Probably will never buy another (though never say never) since I found "Papa's Picks" at 1/3 the price.http://www.guitaradoptions.com/papas_picks/
> These are made from casein with the same properties as tortise shell. They are every bit as good as the Blue Chip picks (IMHO) except for the fact that they are somewhat smaller.  I like the medium-heavy and heavy weights. 
> 
> So, my current price threshold for picks is around $15.


Thanks for the tip Cap'n.  I got my Papa's today and I like the sound and feel.  Got the 1.7 mm, the 2.2 mm and the 2.7 mm.  Nice bright tone, no "click" noise.  Easy to grip.  $12 each.

----------


## Bob Clark

I admit it.  I am a pickaholic. 

I'm still on the cheapies, but I try to manufacture reasons to go into music stores to look for a few more cheap picks I haven't tried.  I'm always looking for the cheap pick-fix.  The next cheapie is sure to be the best one I have ever tried.  Often they are, at least for a day or so.  Then it's back to my old reliable and the search for a better pick begins again.  It's even worse than MAS.  

I know the day is coming when I will move beyond these gateway picks into the real hard core stuff.  There just has to be a BC in my future.  It's destiny; just look at my initials.

----------


## Paul Statman

I have three BlueChip picks. Nuff sed..

----------


## journeybear

Well, not really. If these are all folks say they are, why would you need more than one?  :Confused:  Oh, never mind - different thicknesses and sizes, I get it.  :Wink: 

So, I just got the Blue Chip pick in the mail, and I'll tell you what - I don't know where all that shipping cost folks are griping about elsewhere comes from. This was put between two business cards taped together, popped into a regular business size envelope, a 45¢ stamp stuck on it, and, well, here it is. The following is the gist of my PM to him:  

_Yes. sir! Just got back from the post office. Very nice packing job, actually. I am 100% on Santiago's side - $5 shipping is crazy, when 45¢ will do just fine. Plus you get to advertise your business for free!  Brave of you to send it uninsured.  But then, I can imagine the conversation with a postal inspector should it go missing. ''You insured a geetar pick for $35? You think we're going to pay out on nonsense like that? Get outta here!''
_
OK, gotta cool down a bit and then give this premium pick a spin, see what the fuss is all about. Woo hoo!

----------


## foldedpath

> So, I just got the Blue Chip pick in the mail, and I'll tell you what - I don't know where all that shipping cost folks are griping about elsewhere comes from. This was put between two business cards taped together, popped into a regular business size envelope, a 45¢ stamp stuck on it, and, well, here it is.


I think the point here is that this isn't a normal commodity product... something you order online as a one-shot deal from an anonymous large company. There is a support safety net behind the product. You can return if if you don't like it, or try another one. That overhead that has to be covered somehow. Unless you think people's time isn't valuable?

An alternative could be something like a $5 restocking charge for handling individual returns. Instead, it's just (I assume) folded into the shipping charge they've decided on. The total overhead of the business is spread out over the cost of the pick and the cost charged for the shipping. Seems reasonable to me. Kvetching over a shipping charge when you have a 30 day trial period, seems a bit out of proportion. You don't get a trial period for many things.

----------


## Paul Kotapish

I spend a fair amount of time around start-up and emerging businesses and entrepreneurs. 

One key difference between the businesses that make it and those (99%) that don't is that the successful businesses really understand how much it costs to run the business and then build those expenses into their fees for goods and services. Often this means charging prices that are a lot higher than their competitors and depending on quality products and great services to build the business. Consumers who don't like the terms vote with their lack of purchases.

A boutique instrument-accessory manufacturer trying to make an actual living at it is going to charge way more for everything than a large-scale manufacturer/distributor would. Five dollars for shipping and handling does seem high, but in a tiny start up, that's probably the margin it takes to make the thing fly.

Bear in mind that for a lot of cheap consumer goods, most of the cost of the product off the shelf is for the packaging, shipping, handling, stocking, and sale of the product rather than the value of the product itself.

----------

Miked, 

Ted Eschliman

----------


## shawnbrock

A few times in my life I have paid $35/ $40 for a pick, only 3 in fact.  Each time it was for shell which I only use on guitar.  I lost my 1st within 6 months of buying it, (I was 15 at the time).  My 2nd and 3rd have lasted me for 16 years.  So that was a pretty good investment for me.  When I consider the $1000s I made with those picks, the price don't bother me.  Nothing wrong with paying out that much, and it can be justified as almost anything music related can be. 

Now here's point 2 and the other side of the argument which I am living with on the mandolin.  I have tried everything being sold and still use the Dunlop 2MM.  When the bevel gets weird I just toss it into the audience, in the trash, or leave it in the car for the times when I go to the music store and have forgotten to bring a pick.  I can buy these by the bag, and end up with about 200 picks for $35, (I get a discount on them).  They always work for me, and for me nothing sounds better. 

No question that a pick can make a big difference in your playing, but for me, no pick has made $35 worth of difference.  I have played professionally for a long time now and have learned to except the times when its worth the money, and the times when it isn't.  I'm not calling any custom pick makers frauds, I'm just saying that I tried them and they just didn't sound or feel better than my Dunlop to me. 

I see a lot of players who are just starting out, or who are dissatisfied with their playing, and those are the people sucked in by any sellers of "new and improved" products.  Like all of the sudden this new bridge, tailpiece, pick, strings or instrument will just make the bulb turn on.  Often this isn't the case, and you just have a slightly modified sound from what you had before.  Not that I don't have a small shop bridge and tailpiece, and not that I don't think they make a difference.  They do, but they didn't turn my instruments or playing into some kind of magical experience.  Its all about you and how much work and experimentation you put into making yourself better.  No instrument or accessory will drastically change your playing over night.  Thinking that it will is just a small step from walking around the woods looking for Aladdin's lamp...

----------

Tommy Berry

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## Elliot Luber

> Just having a little fun here, running the numbers....
> 
> One Blue Chip pick is roughly *.007%* the cost of my mandolin (Lebeda F5). 
> 
> I use the same BC model on mandolin, guitar, and octave mandolin. I usually don't take more than two of that combination out on gigs or jams, but that still knocks the total cost down to *.003%* compared to the value of any two of those instruments.
> 
> If I add the value of my current compact "load it in a Subaru Forester" PA system, then on a typical gig the cost of a BC pick is something like *.002%* of the total, including two instruments.
> 
> To put that in _practical_, everyday terms for small-time gigging musicians like me, I've done bar gigs that paid barely the cost of 2 BC picks. I've also done weddings that would buy 20 or 30 BC picks for the gig. 
> ...


And what percentage of the weight is that tiny piece of spaceaged plastic compared to all that tonewood? A mandolin's about 12 pounds, compared to what?

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## shortymack

A 12 pound mandolin?  :Disbelief: 

Why does one have to quantify the amount of money made playing to justify a purchase whatever it may be? I havent made a penny in years playing but that doesnt make it less likely that I will buy something like a BC nor does it make me a better or worse musician. If it gives you incentive to play and share music thats all that matters to me not 5, 10 or 40 bucks. I just dont see why some players are so apprehensive about buying something equivalent to a movie date that will last a lot longer and give you much more pleasure than sitting in a theater for a couple hours.

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## hank

Something to keep in mind on a trial of a pick material is that it is also the shape, size and thickness that you already prefer and are comfortable with.  Journeybear I'm with you on the Dunlop 1.5 mm big stubbys, a great pick.  The Thile BC would be close as a match.  I've noticed when I go back and play my stubby or Fender heavy big triangle that my grip is much loser than it was before giving them up for the Thile BC. I'm not sure if practice has made the improvement or using the tacky BC for so long.  Tremolo with these more pointed picks has required a looser grip and the tackiness of the BC had a lot to do with my attraction to it.   Before the BC I had meandered from the big pointed triangles to a more rounded point because I couldn't hold on to the big pointed triangles during tremolo but the rounded picks just didn't seem as precise in feel and the tone seemed too dark for my preferences. Anyway my Mando-Fu is still pretty weak but I'm glad I gave the BC a try.  I'm not as dependent on it now as I was at first but it might be worth a try for other players that want to loosen their grip on the pick.

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## foldedpath

> And what percentage of the weight is that tiny piece of spaceaged plastic compared to all that tonewood? A mandolin's about 12 pounds, compared to what?


I don't understand your point here. A flatpick is small and weighs very little, but it's no less important than a fiddler's bow or a sax player's reed as an essential interface with your instrument. In fact it's so small, compared to something like a fiddle bow, that tiny differences in feel, bevel shape, and surface texture can make a relatively large difference. If it only makes a 5% difference, that's a difference some will pay for. 

BTW, in reference to one of your earlier posts, it isn't necessarily a tone or volume difference that people look for when choosing picks -- i.e. making a mandolin sound "more expensive" than it really is. Sometimes it's just a mechanical difference that facilitates technique. 

I actually prefer the _tone_ of an Ultex 1.0 pick on my mandolin over that of the Blue Chip. The Ultex has a slightly more rich, darker tone than the Blue Chip I'm using, especially when played off the corner of the pick (which is what I do with all my mandolin picks). The BC is a little sterile-sounding by comparison, which I compensate by angling the pick a little more than with the Ultex. On the other hand, the slick surface and hard bevel on the edge of the BC allow me to do "treble" ornaments in Irish trad fiddle tunes, just a _little bit_ easier and more consistently compared to other picks I've tried. Tremelo is a little easier too, although tremelo isn't an important part of the music I've been playing lately. 

It's a very small difference, but one I care about and will pay for. Others might make a different choice and go for tone over mechanical advantage. Maybe my technique will improve enough over the years to let me do this with an Ultex and ditch the BC. Who knows? This is what works for me right now, and that's all any of us can use as a basis for choosing picks, strings, mandolins, or anything else we use to make music.

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## Elliot Luber

And by comparison, what does that better-sounding Ultex cost you?

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## Jim Garber

I have posted a similar post on other of the Blue Chip pick threads. The #1 reason I find the BC picks valuable is for my playing rhythm guitar for old time music. I pound the stuff out of the guitar and every pick I use gets worn out with the exception of the BC. For mandolin it is not as crucial as most of my playing is melody and  the std picks I like -- Ultex and heavy Gibson small teardrops (no longer made tho I have a stockpile) are fine. So I have a TAD40 for guitar and usually a BCJazz 35 for mandolin. I did buy a BCJazz 40 and 50 used from a Cafe seller and sometimes try those. Now that I own all those I don't need any more and hopefully the guitar pick will last a long time and would be certainly worth the price for that to me.

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## rico mando

For the " Pick of Destiny " I would trade my soul !

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## Paul Statman

> Well, not really. If these are all folks say they are, why would you need more than one?  Oh, never mind - different thicknesses and sizes, I get it. ...


I have three of the TPR60 to be safe. I play one, with one spare, plus an extra spare which I would need should I lose (the) one (I play with). Does that make sense, or am I just being paraffin - about losing one and not having a backup, I mean?

----------


## mandolirius

> I have three of the TPR60 to be safe. I play one, with one spare, plus an extra spare which I would need should I lose (the) one (I play with). Does that make sense, or am I just being paraffin - about losing one and not having a backup, I mean?


Makes sense to me. I have three as well. I like them so much I don't feel comfortable with just one spare.

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## JeffD

> No question that a pick can make a big difference in your playing, but for me, no pick has made $35 worth of difference.  I have played professionally for a long time now and have learned to except the times when its worth the money, and the times when it isn't.  I'm not calling any custom pick makers frauds, I'm just saying that I tried them and they just didn't sound or feel better than my Dunlop to me.


A surprising statement, considering how little $35 buys these days. But there is no arguing with your conclusion, its your conclusion. At least you have tried 'em and you know.

My first high end pick was the Red Bear, and it made a large difference in the tone. For me, for how I play. A difference of the same magnitude as a good set up. So I figured it was worth about that much to me.




> I see a lot of players who are just starting out, or who are dissatisfied with their playing, and those are the people sucked in by any sellers of "new and improved" products.  Like all of the sudden this new bridge, tailpiece, pick, strings or instrument will just make the bulb turn on.  Often this isn't the case, and you just have a slightly modified sound from what you had before.  Not that I don't have a small shop bridge and tailpiece, and not that I don't think they make a difference.  They do, but they didn't turn my instruments or playing into some kind of magical experience.  Its all about you and how much work and experimentation you put into making yourself better.  No instrument or accessory will drastically change your playing over night.  Thinking that it will is just a small step from walking around the woods looking for Aladdin's lamp...


First of all its a bit of a straw man arguement, I believe.  Hyperbolic rhetoric aside, I don't think anybody really expects magic. But it all does make a difference, as you say, and the amount of difference for the amount of cost is a ratio only each individual can assess. 

Accessories don't take the place of practice and attention to your technique. Of course not. Nobody really thinks so. The way I look at it, there's ME, with all the practice and work and attention I can give it, and then there's ME with a high end pick. And there is a measurable difference between the two, that is well worth a one time expenditure equivalent to dinner for two at the diner.

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## JeffD

> And by comparison, what does that better-sounding Ultex cost you?



Who cares. If it works it works. If it doesn't it doesn't. In either case you're not aout a lot of money.

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## JeffD

> For the " Pick of Destiny " I would trade my soul !



 :Laughing:  Mee too.

----------

rico mando

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## Polecat

I lose picks, so I doubt I would be prepared to shell out for a "high end" piece of plastic. What stops me most of all from buying a B.C. is that there is no opportunity to try the thing out before buying it. If I could walk into a music store with my mandolin and pick a few tunes with it, maybe I would be tempted, but as it is, the cheapest option here in Germany costs roughly 45. If I knew that it was worth it, I might order one, but, as I say, there is no way to find out, and a B.C pick represents about 6 1/2 hours work for me, so I am not prepared to take the risk. For the same price, I can buy 540 Tortex picks, and presuming that I wear one out every month (which I don't - they do wear out, but I've never bothered to take notice of how long it takes, and usually have 2 or 3 in my case), that's enough for 45 years. Does anybody seriously believe they will keep a pick that long? 
As regards tone, I am of the (not fixed) opinion, that the greatest factor in tone production is the musician, and the periphary, though not entirely unimportant, is easily overestimated. As I say, I would certainly be prepared to revise this opinion, if using a B.C. proved a revelation, but lacking the opportunity, I reserve judgement. BTW, does anybody know if BC will take their picks back and provide a refund if one is not satisfied?

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## JeffD

> I lose picks, so I doubt I would be prepared to shell out for a "high end" piece of plastic.


Once you purchase a high end pick, for a high end price, you will stop losing picks.




> What stops me most of all from buying a B.C. is that there is no opportunity to try the thing out before buying it.


Find someone at a festival or a jam that uses one and ask to try it out.

----------

Paul Statman

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## Paul Statman

> BTW, does anybody know if BC will take their picks back and provide a refund if one is not satisfied?


Yes, they do, so you have nothing to lose, Polecat! If tone is something for which you strive, we the converted recommend the BlueChip pick.

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## Elliot Luber

Well, After grousing about shipping charges, I bit the bullet and am awaiting delivery of my CT55. Curiosity got the better of me. Not expecting miracles, but don't expect to return it either.

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## greg_tsam

One thing I haven't mentioned is the way the BC grips my skin which allows me better control of tone.  You may ask why is this any news since this is a well discussed ability of the material.  The reason is personal.  I have a hand disability and small differences to able bodied people can make a huge difference to someone in my shoes.

What's that worth to me?  Priceless.

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## catmandu2

> I see a lot of players who are just starting out, or who are dissatisfied with their playing, and those are the people sucked in by any sellers of "new and improved" products.  Like all of the sudden this new bridge, tailpiece, pick, strings or instrument will just make the bulb turn on.  Often this isn't the case, and you just have a slightly modified sound from what you had before.  Not that I don't have a small shop bridge and tailpiece, and not that I don't think they make a difference.  They do, but they didn't turn my instruments or playing into some kind of magical experience.  Its all about you and how much work and experimentation you put into making yourself better.  No instrument or accessory will drastically change your playing over night.  Thinking that it will is just a small step from walking around the woods looking for Aladdin's lamp...


Mandolin (for better or worse  :Wink:  ) is a relatively "low-maintenance" instrument--not requiring much in the way of gear and accessories.  This is unfortunate for some, as many of us are inclined to fiddle and futz around with stuff--especially when it directly pertains to our favorite hobbies (this is probably the definition of _nirvana_ for some)

The tendencies described above occur particularly among woodwind players--as it is simply fundamental to experiment with gear (mouthpieces and reeds) in order to derive a desired sound, or even to render a horn playable.  There are myriad variations in reeds and mouthpieces (and then of course we like to experiment with varieties of ligatures...and even barrels too!).  Add to this the complicating factor that: every different reed and mouthpiece adjustment usually has a readily discernable and often marked difference in sound.  So, while the above may hold true for mandolins--that no accessory will drastically change your playing overnight--for woodwinds, a simple accessory _will_ change your _sound_ overnight.  So, we're simply shpilkes as a normal state   :Frown: 

Mandolins--you've got to make something happen   :Wink: .  It can be something small, or large--in Bird's time, many thought the magic grail was the "works"

If one likes to tinker with gear, my experience is that the best activities for this are banjo playing, fishing, and windsurfing

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## foldedpath

> Mandolin (for better or worse  ) is a relatively "low-maintenance" instrument--not requiring much in the way of gear and accessories.  This is unfortunate for some, as many of us are inclined to fiddle and futz around with stuff--especially when it directly pertains to our favorite hobbies (this is probably the definition of _heaven_ for some)


I have tendencies in that direction, but I sublimate them into recording gear.  :Smile: 




> The tendencies described above occur particularly among woodwind players--as it is simply fundamental to experiment with gear (mouthpieces and reeds) in order to derive a desired sound, or even to render a horn playable.  There are myriad variations in reeds and mouthpieces (and then of course we like to experiment with varieties of ligatures...and even barrels too!).  Add to this the complicating factor that: every different reed and mouthpiece adjustment usually has a readily discernable and often marked difference in sound.  So, while the above may hold true for mandolins--that no accessory will drastically change your playing overnight--for woodwinds, a simple accessory _will_ change your _sound_ overnight.  So, we're simply shpilkes as a normal state


I've been trying to learn Irish flute lately (conical bore wooden flute, six holes, no keys). Aside from maybe hand drums, its the most _basic_ instrument I've ever played. Nothing to adjust or buy on a regular basis... just keep the thing clean and occasionally oiled. 

The tone from this flute is maddeningly dependent on the player's embouchure and finger dexterity. No excuses. Nothing to buy that will improve or alter the tone, outside of what I do with my body and its interaction with this stubborn stick of wood. On the one hand, it's refreshing not to have to buy strings every few weeks to keep the tone fresh. On the other hand... no excuses. If the tone sucks, it's because I suck. It's both liberating and frustrating at the same time. So be glad there's at least _something_ to fool around with on other woodwinds and the mandolin, to adjust the tone.
 :Wink:

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## catmandu2

It's western man's immutable hell--to play an instrument for which there are no accessories.   :Wink:

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## Paul Statman

> .. no excuses. If the tone sucks, it's because I suck. It's both liberating and frustrating at the same time. So be glad there's at least _something_ to fool around with on other woodwinds and the mandolin, to adjust the tone.


I am willing to bet that you haven't tried a single BC pick on it. You haven't, have you? Yup. I thought as much..

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## Polecat

> If one likes to tinker with gear, my experience is that the best activities for this are banjo playing, fishing, and windsurfing


OT: I would recommend restauring East German Communist mopeds :Wink:

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## greg_tsam

> If the tone sucks, it's because I suck.


Bingo.  But does that mean we should all play Rogues and not Nuggets?

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## catmandu2

Well for my money, I would buy _whatever_ I wanted to express myself--unless I couldn't afford it.  I guess that's how one amasses so many instruments (picks & strings are not up there on my radar however--I'm too immersed in bows and reeds): give me something thick (a Dawg) for mandolin; I go incrementally lighter as scale-length generally increases...even up to a medium or a med-thin for CGDA banjo

I suppose that if I played mandolin exclusively or predominantly I might be more concerned over a pick

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## hank

Santiago I hope you enjoy your CT55 as much as I have mine.  It was like a Ferrari compared to a bread truck when I compared the new pick to a more rounded pick shape I'd meandered to.  Since using it primarily for awhile I find holding other big more pointed triangle picks easier than before getting used to the CT55. Seems the BC's tackiness helped me get rid of an overly tight grip that transferred over to non BC picks.

----------

Elliot Luber, 

Paul Statman

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## Elliot Luber

Okay, so I've been one of the loudest complainers about the cost (and shipping cost) of the Blue Chip pick. I broke down and bought myself a CT55 - I figure if it makes me sound one iota closer to Chris Thiele it's worth it. The pick arrived today at 5 p.m. in the mail. Here's my findings: 

So far, I have to say that I am quite pleased with the purchase. I'm playing faster, cleaner and louder than I was with my Red Bear, Wegen, V-Pick and ProPlecs, and the tone is pleasing. It's more secure in my fingers. It's similar to the old Red Bears, but it's thicker with the Chris Thiele speed bevel, and it stays put in my hand and (they tell me at least) that it won't break (but I'm not going to try at $39+ a pop). Mind you , I mentioned those other picks because they are my favorites. I will still use them, but I could tell an immediate difference with the Blue Chip. Now, if they could lower the shipping fees.  :Smile:

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## foldedpath

> Bingo.  But does that mean we should all play Rogues and not Nuggets?


Well, when it comes to the instrument itself, I've always felt that the general rule (if you can afford it) is to buy something good enough that the instrument won't be an obstacle, and can be something you'll grow into over time. Even for a rank beginner, there's a heck of a lot more room for personal musical growth with a Nugget under your hand, compared to a Rogue. 

Mandolin is just one of those instruments where you have to pay attention to a few other things like strings and pick selection.... because the darned thing won't make music without strings on it, and without a pick under your fingers (fingerstyle players notwithstanding).

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## rico mando

what does  35 bucks mean to you ?  do you even notice the expenditure or does it mean eating Kraft Dinner for the week ?

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## Jim Garber

There is an upgrade available for these high end picks. You can have a blue chip embedded into them that is registered with your local police precinct just in case you lose it.  :Smile:

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## shortymack

Santiago, I think the same thing. BC's are the loudest most articulate picks that I have ever tried. I do like to use my wegen on occasion for different things but the BC's are my go to's on both guitar and mando. Glad you like yours.

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## Mike Snyder

I've gotta figure out which one is ideal for tenor banjo in GDAE. Winfield is less than a month away and the BC folks will have a booth under the grandstand. I'll be face-to-face with the bossman, so anything you want me to ask him? 
  The CT55 works well on my banjo but I'm thinking something thinner, maybe.

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## Bill Baldridge

$5,000,472,091.06 but not a cent for shipping.

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## shortymack



----------

Paul Statman

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## Elliot Luber

> $5,000,472,091.06 but not a cent for shipping.


  At that price, buy a ProPlec and a Loar.

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## Polecat

I found this helpful video on youtube: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCfREvCkaVg

I've no idea how representative it is, but I honestly would put the BC in second place, behind the Ultex, certainly as far as my idea of how I like a mandolin to sound.

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## liestman

> I've gotta figure out which one is ideal for tenor banjo in GDAE. Winfield is less than a month away and the BC folks will have a booth under the grandstand. I'll be face-to-face with the bossman, so anything you want me to ask him? 
>   The CT55 works well on my banjo but I'm thinking something thinner, maybe.


Mike, I play Irish trad on tenor banjo in GDAE. I took a TAD40 and thinned it (silicon carbide paper down to 600 grit and then buffed it with tripoli) down to .64 mm (.025") and it is a killer pick for the purpose. The good folks at BC do not recommend you do this and claim it can become brittle at that thickness, but I have played mine like that for a long time and it rocks! I would love it if they would make that model - it would be a TAD25. Anyway, just be sure to sand it equally from each side, so that the bevel (what remains of it) and point are "centered".

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## rb3868

I just picked up three different V-Picks.  all are very well made.  I got a small "pearly gates" pointed, an Onyx, both 2.75, and the "chicken picker".

They all felt very nice to grip, and I was shocked at how different they all sounded.  the pearly gates seemed to have a bit of a subdued sound, almost like strumming with my thumb.  With the chicken picker, I was able to pick very fast and it was great for tremolo.  The pointed tip of the onyx was LOUD and really gave a sharp twang to my picking

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## Elliot Luber

I like them too. It's good to have diversity of tools.

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## twangjunkie

Alot of people do not realize the impoertance of playing with the right pick, granted everyone is looking for something different according to their likes. But different picks make the mandolin sound & play different. In my opinion having the right pick and right strings are very important, they will not replace practice or knowledge but they definately have an impact on playing and sound. The most that I have paid for a pick so far is $16.00, but that's because I always try to find the best deal on a pick that I can as I'm sure most want to do.  The next pick that I am looking to try is a Blue Chip, but I just recently spent about $35.00 on a bunch of different picks to try and find the one that I will stick with. The outcome is having alot of different picks that I have decided not to use but that's how it is when your looking to find the pick that suits you best. Sorry for being so longwinded.
Rich

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## azflyman

<Moderator's edit. Discussion of Tortoise prohibited by Forum Guidelines. Please review.>

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## bmac

I have paid up to one dollar, if I recall.

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## journeybear

I apologize for two things - the lateness of this report on the Blue Chip Pick Challenge, and for resurrecting a pick thread at all.  :Wink:  I suppose if I had been more timely with the former the latter would have been unnecessary, but, well, so it goes. Or went.  :Whistling:  Anyway ...


So, I brought the Blue Chip pick to a gig, along with the rest of my collection. This included a Dunlop 1.5mm. a Dunlop 2mm, a Fender extra heavy, and a bunch of others of varying pedigrees. I figured I would get a better idea of how each pick performed if I could listen to how the instruments sounded through the PA, not only because playing them through a decent system meant being able to hear subtle differences more clearly, but also because this would produce a certain distancing from the actual sound production, thus potentially a more objective sound sampling experience. Besides, the goal is to be able to make my instruments sound the best in a professional situation anyway. 

Much to my surprise, there did indeed seem to be some variation in sound produced by these picks; I had always assumed a pick was a pick, and it was the picking, not the pick, that made a difference. I had a hard time grading the picks on anything other than a pass-fail basis The above-mentioned were in the pass group; indeed, they pretty much comprised it. I'd be hard put to say whether the Blue Chip or the Dunlops were superior, though I did feel the Fender was slightly behind them. 

But there was another factor. This gig was at a dockside bar (imaginatively called The Dockside), and while the stage was constructed with plywood, the rest of the flooring was typical 2x4s with many layers of marine paint and 1/4" gaps between them. If a pick were to go flying there was a 99% chance it would slip between boards and be lost to the deep. This made me very nervous about using the Blue Chip. Even in a "normal" venue I would feel wary of losing it; in this situation, it was really wearing. Since I didn't notice a marked difference between the Blue Chip and the Dunlops, which cost just a few percent of its price, I have concluded the Blue Chip isn't worth it. All things being equal (like if I were just given these picks), I might well choose it. I like the shape and size of it, and it also feels and even looks cool. But I'll stick with what I've got.

And there is a sort of epilogue. A little while later, while cleaning up and clearing out my room, and going through a bunch of stuff in the process, I came across an old large triangular Clayton pick, a pretty thick one, in the 1.2-1.5mm range. This went back a few years, maybe even about a quarter century. This instantly became my go-to pick for half a year, so much so the logo wore off it. It was also fun to rotate it in my grip, if it ever began to do so, in either direction. No performance effect, just fun. Sadly, it went AWOL a couple of weeks ago, and I don't know what happened to the Dunlops either (the point on the 1.5mm was worn down anyway, to where it looked almost like a Grisman pick and thus was pretty unusable), so I've been using some sort of a Fender-shaped (though not Fender) sort of matte finish pick, another stage floor find. It works just fine, and the matte finish helps maintain a grip. And it's purple.  :Wink:

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## Phil Goodson

> ..... flooring was typical 2x4s with many layers of marine paint and 1/4" gaps between them. If a pick were to go flying there was a 99% chance it would slip between boards and be lost to the deep. This made me very nervous about using the Blue Chip. Even in a "normal" venue I would feel wary of losing it; in this situation, it was really wearing.......


Makes sense to me.  Heck, if I thought *I* couldn't keep up with it, I wouldn't even play a mandolin.  I'd go for the bass!!!   :Laughing:

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## journeybear

No kidding. You'd probably get a lot more gigs, too. And never lose a pick.  :Grin:

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## JeffD

Well done JB. Good report.

I am playing with a quartet now and again, and I am finding with the quartet that I like the Red Bear over the Blue Chip. There are four distinct instruments and the sound qualities of each seems to become more important.

----------

journeybear

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## wsugai

If I lost my CT55, and the price doubled to $70, I would still pay it. I would bitch and moan like the dickens, but I'd still pay it. Aside from the significantly increased bitching and moaning, the other thing that would happen is that I would greatly improve my  pick management techniques.

Offhand, I can only think of two things that would deter me -- if I found a pick I liked better, or if the price went from $70 to $7,000. Then it would be an fairly easy decision to make.

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Paul Statman

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