# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Harmony mandolin model?

## Nick Royal

I just got a Harmony mandolin from someone on the Cafe.  It's a Monterey model by Harmony.  Anyone know about this kind of a Harmony? Did they make lots of different models/different named mandolins?
Nick Royal
Santa Cruz, CA

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## jim simpson

I had a Monterey/Harmony mandolin long ago. It looked like most others of that name that I've seen. It was a solid top mandolin that I believe was press shaped not carved. I was surprised that a music store would give me a trade in value on it when I went for a new one (this was 1986). It was a step up from the really bad no name that proceeded it. I didn't know how to set up or tweak a mandolin back then and probably could have made it more comfortable to play with later aquired knowledge.

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## allenhopkins

Here's an answer Jim Garber gave on allexperts.com earlier this month:

_
According to my sources, Harmony Monterey mandolins were mde from the 1950s into the 1970s. Book value (exc cond) is $150-175. The Monterey mandolin were models H410, H417 or H8017. usually there is some sort of stamp with the serial number with an "H" in the middle and then the style number. There should be a smaller number near the other stamp that says F-XX or S-XX and that should be the year. 
I am not 100% sure whether it is solid wood. You could easily tell whether the top is solid by looking at the edge of the sound holes._

Harmony's "Monterey" line also included arch-top guitars.  From a cursory Google search, it appears that it was a mid-price line, decently made.  I've seen several of the guitars and mandolins with a distinctive red-to-black "sunburst" finish.  

Harmony made several models of mandolin.  Other than their notorious "batwing" quasi-F-style, I think the Monterey was probably as good as they made.

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## MikeEdgerton

I have Harmony Monterey's on a catalog page from around 1936. I can date them because on the back side of the page there are Kalamazoo mandolins that can be dated. That number with the H in the middle isn't a serial number, it's a model number. Harmony didn't use serial numbers. As he states the other number you would look for that may or may not be in the mandolin would be a date stamp, usually a number like W54 or S72 (Winter of 1954 or Summer of 1972). There may also be another number in that series and it may or may not be inside a circle, oval or rectangle. There were two models of Monterey mandolins in the later years, one had binding on the fretboard and the other didn't. I don't recall the model number difference. They were solid wood, they were pressed. The earlier ones from the late 40's that I've seen were actually half decent. The necks were like playing a baseball bat. The 48 that I had actually had some real flame on the back.

Here's a post by Jim Garber that shows a 1939 catalog page with a Harmony Monterey.

Found my catalog pictures. Here's a page with Harmony Monterey mandolins and a page with Kalamazoo mandolins (both sides of the catalog page). You can easily date the Kalamazoo's. That automatically dates the Harmony Monterey's.

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## Mattg

That's so cool to see that page from '36. I have one with a stamped number inside that says 2098H410. Mine looks just like the one in the catalog. Its got a slightly birds eye back. It was litterally handed to me in a trash bag. A relative was cleaning out another relatives house after he passed. It almost got tossed.

I keep mine in my office at work for a bit of practice now and again. It's a 12 fret, not too loud and with a skinny neck and slightly short scale. It's very easy to play and quite mellow sounding. Really doesn't hold up against more than one instrument. Glad to have it though.

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## Jarfly

I can obain a Harmony Monterey mandolin, with the F-41 stamp on the inside, in good condition. The thing about this mando is that it is supposed to be Jimmy Roger's mandolin, inherited from him, through the seller's family. This provenance remains to be checked-out. The mandolin also has a full set of Gretsch mandolin strings, in their original wrappers, and a cardboard-material case. The marketry on this mandolin is very unusual, as well.

Any idea as to value?

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## MikeEdgerton

Well, if it is indeed Jimmy Rogers mandolin it's worth $200.00 or less. If it isn't it's worth $200.00 or less. On a good day you might get a little more and on a normal day you'll get a whole lot less. That's not saying it's bad, they just don't bring big money.

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## allenhopkins

I assume you mean Jimmy Rodgers, the '50's pop singer (_Honeycomb, Bim-Bom-Bey, Kisses Sweeter Than Wine,_ etc.), not Jimmie Rodgers, the "Singing Brakeman," "Father of Country Music," blue yodeler of the '20's-'30's.  The earlier JR couldn't have owned a Harmony Monterey since they didn't come out until the '50's.

Since neither was known for playing mandolin, the provenance of this particular instrument doesn't enhance its value much.  If it were connected with the earlier JR, I think some country music person would be quite interested (assuming the connection could be proven, a picture of him holding it _e.g._).  However, the '50's JR is really just a bit of a footnote now; you'd have to find a person who is a real nostalgia-trip fan of his, to get a premium for what's a pretty ordinary instrument.

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## Jarfly

> Here's an answer Jim Garber gave on allexperts.com earlier this month:
> 
> _
> According to my sources, Harmony Monterey mandolins were mde from the 1950s into the 1970s. Book value (exc cond) is $150-175. The Monterey mandolin were models H410, H417 or H8017. usually there is some sort of stamp with the serial number with an "H" in the middle and then the style number. There should be a smaller number near the other stamp that says F-XX or S-XX and that should be the year. 
> I am not 100% sure whether it is solid wood. You could easily tell whether the top is solid by looking at the edge of the sound holes._
> 
> Harmony's "Monterey" line also included arch-top guitars.  From a cursory Google search, it appears that it was a mid-price line, decently made.  I've seen several of the guitars and mandolins with a distinctive red-to-black "sunburst" finish.  
> 
> Harmony made several models of mandolin.  Other than their notorious "batwing" quasi-F-style, I think the Monterey was probably as good as they made.


It appears that the Harmony Monterey was made before the 1950's - I have an "F-41" Monterey, together with the original set of Gretsch mandolin strings, and what looks like a tortoiseshell mandolin pick?

Any interest from anyone? Any idea re: value?

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## Jarfly

I have a Monterey Harmony, "F-41"" (made in 1941), with original case, and set of Gretsch mandolin strings. 

Any idea of its value?

Thanks!

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## MikeEdgerton

Did you read the post above with a value in it? Are you trying to sell it? The posts above already have catalog pages with Montery's back to 1936.

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## 8ch(pl)

friend of mine has one that is in sound condition, but the finish is pretty bad.  He used to carry it to play at dances in rural Nova Scotia in the 1950's.  He walked quite a distance in all weather and did not own a case.

Despite that, it still has a really nice sound, not too loud, but sweet toned.  I believe he told me that he paid $39.95 for it from Sears, but I can't swear to it.  He has retired and moved back to his home town, I haven't seen him in about 10 years.

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## chip

Harmony "monterey" was my first mandolin. Paid $75 for it and that's about what it was worth. Soon after I bought a Flatiron Performer A model. Hang it on the wall for decoration.... :Smile:

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## Capt. E

The Monterey seems to be older than the 50's. See the above advertisement from 1936!   

If your Monterey was owned and played by Jimmy Rodgers it could be worth more than normal because of the association, but you will have to have solid provenance like sales receipt, photos, etc.   Not always an easy thing to do.

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## mrmando

Jimmie Rodgers, the Singing Brakeman, died in 1933. 
Jimmie Rodgers the '50s pop singer was _born_ in 1933. He is still alive. 
Jimmy Rogers the blues guitarist and Muddy Waters sideman died in 1997.
James Gamble Rogers IV, the Florida folk singer, died in 1991. 

An instrument dated 1941 could not have belonged to the Singing Brakeman, and I doubt that provenance related to any of the other JRs would increase the value of the instrument.

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## Spencer

Bought a Harmony in 1977, but not a Monterey, I don't remember seeing any Monterteys for sale one at that time.  Someone quoted Jim Garber as saying they were made into the 70's, does anybody know for sure when they stopped?

Spencer

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## MikeEdgerton

I had one from the early 70's. harmony stopped building in the US in the early 70's.

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## Ed Lee

All;

Someone on the cafe replied to me that my Supertone was made by Harmony c. 1916 - 1940, the latter when Sears changed the name to Silvertone.  Also, that Sears bought Harmony to produce ukeleles meeting demand.  All I can do is stir this around a bit, but it does dovetail to era of my Grandmother.

Ed Lee

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## Paul Hostetter

There's a Harmony guitarnut site that offers this bit of history, which I have edited for spelling and pointless hyperbole:

The Harmony Company was founded by Wilhelm Schultz in 1892. Wilhelm immigrated to America to work for the Knapp Drum Company of Chicago. In 1892 he bought a two room loft on the top floor of the Edison Building at Washington and Market Streets, later the site of Chicago's Civic Opera House.

By 1894, the Harmony Company had 40 employees. In 1904 a larger location was acquired and the business settled in their own 3 story 30,000 square foot factory at 1738-1754 Lawndale Ave. A new wing was added in 1906. By 1915 Harmony had 125 employees.

In 1915 Harmony was the first large scale ukulele builder. In 1916 Sears wanted to corner the market on ukulele sales (they were extremely popular at the time) so they bought the world's ukulele leader, Harmony.

In 1916, the Sears, Roebuck Company purchased Harmony and appointed Jay Kraus as vice-president. The following year Jay succeeded founder Wilhelm Schultz as president.

By 1923, Harmony stated annual sales of 250,000 units. Later in the decade, (Feb. 1928) Harmony introduced the first of many Roy Smeck models. The first models were called the Roy Smeck Vita series.

In 1930, annual sales were reported to be 500,000 units sold. The amount of instruments being produced by Harmony made up the largest percentage of stringed instruments being manufactured in the U.S. at that time, and Harmony made them all: guitars - archtops, flat-tops, electric Spanish, Hawaiian bodies, ukuleles, banjos, mandolins, violins and more. They continued to turn in impressive annual sales figures right up till the company was dissolved.

In 1930 the Roy Smeck Grand Concert and Hawaiian models were unveiled and in 1931 the Vagabond guitar line was first produced.

In 1938 Harmony returned to violin production after a 19 year hiatus and in 1939 Harmony bought several brand names from the bankrupt Oscar Schmidt Company. These names included: La Scala, Stella and Sovereign.

In February 1940, Jay Kraus resigned as the President of Harmony. John T. Higgins was named as new company head. Then in December 1940, Jay Kraus bought the firm by acquiring controlling stock. In 1941, he moved the company to 3633 Racine Ave. Jay remained as head of the company until his death in 1968.

Charles Rubovits, who had been with Harmony since 1935, took over as president, remaining in that position till the dissolution of the company. In 1975 the Harmony Guitar Co. in Chicago ceased operations and had a three day auction.

It's never been clear to me how one could own a company that was simultaneously owned by Sears-Roebuck. I don't recall ever having (knowingly) seen a Harmony violin. The issue of Harmony making Airline instruments - it did happen - requires explanation since Airline was a brand of Montgomery Ward, Sears' main competitor, usually made by Kay, Harmony's main competitor. Welcome to the world of jobbers and capitalism. Supertone to Silvertone wasn't sudden and didn't even have to do with musical instruments, for that matter. Lots of loose ends here, but some good info.

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## STEViE Simpson

Here's the Harmony I've gigged with for years....


I believe this to be mid-fifties. I have another on loan to a mate that is somewhat older.
This is the last one I bought, a much later one from the seventies....

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## Big Joe

I have a 1964 Monteray in the shop for sale now.  It is in extremely nice condition, and plays and sounds pretty good.  It was purchased in Minneapolis in 1964 and owned continuosly by the same guy.  He owns over 400 instruments, mostly the "off" brands like Harmony and Kay.  He never learned to play and it was rarely out of the case.  The case is the original chipboard case in like new condition and the bag (canvas type) with snaps that is also like new.  It is a really cool package.  This one is priced at 450 and it is a very fair price for this instrument.  

It is a very cool piece of mandolin history and represents a period of American made instruments that were not expensive, but well built.

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## Jim Garber

Sorry for the confusion on the Monterrey mandolin. that is why I bowed out of the "expert" biz. Besides, it wasn't anywhere as fun as this site.

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## Paul Hostetter

> Here's the Harmony I've gigged with for years....


This is a real Harmony, made in Chicago. Pressed, not carved, these sound really good. 




> This is the last one I bought, a much later one from the seventies....


This one, of course, is made in Korea, and most likely has a laminated top. No awards for the sunburst!

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## STEViE Simpson

> This is a real Harmony, made in Chicago. Pressed, not carved, these sound really good. !


I love this mando, it's very well travelled nowadays an' has played gig after gig after gig with some maintainance it has to be said but then I'm slammin' chords on it an' it needs TLC from time to time. A damn fine workhorse that's proved itself again an' again.






> This one, of course, is made in Korea, and most likely has a laminated top. No awards for the sunburst!


This one doesn't sound bad either, though it's looks are somewhat stark [:{D>

A good friend of mine made me a sporran to go with my plaid an' carved my mando onto it....




Thanx for your info Paul.

CHEERS !!

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## 8ch(pl)

Hope you're wearing Fraser Tartan, since Simpson is a sept of Clan Fraser.

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## Paul Hostetter

> A good friend of mine made me a sporran to go with my plaid an' carved my mando onto it...


My wife, a Petrie from Orkney (sept of MacGregor), approves.  :Smile:

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## STEViE Simpson

> Hope you're wearing Fraser Tartan, since Simpson is a sept of Clan Fraser.


Indeed for most occasions, apart from a cheap kilt which is just a party kilt for when I'm travellin' places on the bike....



an' just to keep this mandolin orientated here's one from my travels.... Kaunas. Lithuania. The tag on the album reads '96, that should have read '06. An' sort of off the back of that trip on the bike I played a festival there last summer an' returned at the back end of January this year.



CHEERS !!

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## TheMandoKit

Mine is from the early 1970's.  Stamped "8823H8017" and "S-72-<something maybe a W?>"  Also "Made in U.S.A."

A little embarrassed to say that I am the original owner.  But, it was given to me as a gift from my parents, so it has sentimental value, too.  Honestly, it's not a bad sounding mandolin.  Got me through college, and then I got away from the mandolin for a while.  It's been through a lot in its nearly 40 years on the planet.  Could use some fret work, but I hate to sink money into it.

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## MikeEdgerton

It was made in 1972, I have one just like it. My bridge has a little bow in it.

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## Big Joe

We sold ours today.  I kind of miss it already.  It certainly sounded and played very well.  It was one of the better "cheapies" I've seen in a long time.

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## Phil Goodson

Yeah Joe.  I got home with it okay.   It still sounds pretty good.  Thanks for the pleasant visit.

From the above discussions, I haven't been able to figure out the numbers inside.

4451H417     UV-S2S

I understand the first set:  417 style.

The UV-S2S  is inside an oval.  Any ideas on what this indicates?

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## MikeEdgerton

The number insdie the oval is a date code but are you sure about the numbers/letters? Can you post a picture of the mandolin as well?

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## Phil Goodson

Here are some pix.

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## Spencer

What models had the "stencil" F-holes?  This is mine that I bought new in 1976, I assume one of the last made since they closed in 1975.  In the catalog in post #4, it looks like the left hand model has the "stencil" type and the one on the right has normal F-holes.  


Spencer

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## Phil Goodson

> The number insdie the oval is a date code but are you sure about the numbers/letters? Can you post a picture of the mandolin as well?


Mike, (or anyone else)
Any insight on the numbers/letters after seeing the pix?

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