# Music by Genre > Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance >  Saint-Saëns: The Swan, mandocello duet

## Martin Jonas

Camille Saint-Saëns (1886): Le Cygne/ The Swan
Played on double-tracked mandocello.

This is a test recording to try out my new mandocello -- a Suzuki MC-815 (see this thread in the CBOM section for details on the instrument).

I've only got my hands on the mandocello three days ago, so I'm still getting to know this instrument and the mandocello in general.  For now, I'm using the Thomastik strings that came with it although I also want to try out the D'Addario mandocello strings.

This piece was written for solo cello with accompaniment on two (!) pianos.  My recording is based on an arrangement by Adina Chan for two violins.  I wanted to try out and demonstrate the tone of the Suzuki 'cello as a bass backing instrument and as a lead melody instrument, alternating single stroke playing and tremolo.  The melody in this arrangement is printed precisely as in the composer's own 1886 violin and as I'm playing it on cello but use the same fingering I would use on mandolin, it sounds in C major instead of the original key of G Major -- 'cello purists will no doubt sniff, but the original cello melody is too far up the neck for me to try as my first attempt at mandocello.

I think on this piece, the TI strings sound very nice and the smooth flatwounds mean there is no finger squeaking despite my rudimentary mandocello technique -- I'm not sold on them for other genres (e.g. Celtic/Baroque), yet. 



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Martin

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houseworker, 

JEStanek, 

wildpikr

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## Eddie Sheehy

Got a lead sheet for this Martin?  Bass or Treble clef.

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## Martin Jonas

Here you are, Eddie.  I've played it from the attached violin duet version, simply pretending I was in GDAE tuning.  Thus, while the score is in G major, my recording is a fifth lower in C major.  Apologies for the fudge -- the original cello part in G major is in the very upper edge of the cello register and is therefore usually written in tenor clef, not bass clef.  A step too far for my baby steps on mandocello, I feel.

I also attach Saint-Saens' own violin and piano adaptation of the piece, and as you can see the violin duet arrangement I've used is simply the original violin part plus the piano bass line, except for the last few bars.

As this is simply a test recording to try out the new mandocello, I've now marked the Youtube video as "unlisted" to save myself from irate comments from the violincello community...

Martin

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Eddie Sheehy, 

JEStanek, 

Phil Vinyard, 

wildpikr

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## Andy Boden

Nice looking instrument, Martin. Congratulations

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## Caleb

Truly beautiful.  Thanks for posting.  That's one of my favorite pieces of music.

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## Tavy

That's interesting - you can certainly hear it has a short scale I think - and the effect of the flatwound strings too.  It'll be interesting to compare how it sounds with roundwound - IMO it could use a little more "zing".  BTW, I'm actually a big fan of flatwounds on mandolin, but I'm not so sure on longer scale instruments, certainly on my 17" scale 'dola D'Addarrio chromes have not been a success: beautiful to play on certainly, but too dull for my liking.  It's going to be interesting to see how this one works out - I look forward to more!

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## bratsche

Nice job, Martin!  I have to confess that after having recorded it on viola on my YT channel in a much more conventional way, I was prepared to not like this particular piece at all as a mandocello duet, but it actually works!  It's different, but sounds quite charming in its own way.  I've downloaded the pdf duet version, which is useful to have.  

You're pretty proficient at getting around on that big instrument already, for having just bought it.  It has a very nice tone.  I like the Thomastiks sound, personally.  It sounds to my ear better than that other person who recorded one of those same instruments on YouTube, but probably with different strings (I mean the acoustic one, not the plugged-in guy).  But then, I do like Thomastiks on almost everything, except for violas and other bowed instruments.   :Wink: 

bratsche

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## Martin Jonas

Thanks for the comments -- it's a fun instrument to play!  The tone of the TI strings is a bit of a curate's egg: I can see where bratsche is coming from and I really like these strings on this piece.  However, on balance I tend to agree with Tavy -- for much of what I want to play on it it needs a bit more bite and a brighter tone and based on my previous experience with flatwounds I suspect that is what changing to the d'Addario strings will do.  What I would really like is a tone something like Mike Marshall demonstrates here, having bite as well gorgeous depth of bass:



Now, those are definitely d'Addario strings (it's their sponsored upload), but of course it's also a mega-bucks Monteleone mandocello, not to mention Mike Marshall playing it.

I'm making a few more recordings for my own comparison purposes on the TI strings now, and will then do comparison recordings on the roundwounds to see which I stick with.

Martin

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brunello97

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## Bartk1448

Hi Martin,  Great job.  Now I'm wondering how I could play the same thing an octave higher on my Mandola.  BTW, how do you record both parts?  What equipment or programs did you use?  Thanks for sharing the video with us.

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## Martin Jonas

> Hi Martin,  Great job.  Now I'm wondering how I could play the same thing an octave higher on my Mandola.  BTW, how do you record both parts?  What equipment or programs did you use?


Thanks!  Of course you can play it on mandola.  There are two ways of doing so: the same way as me, using mandolin fingering in mandola tuning which transposes the tune to C major, or alternatively you can capo on the second fret for DAEB tuning and play it at the original (cello) pitch in G major with the benefit of being able to stay in first position rather than in fourth as on cello.  The second option only works for the melody line, not for the arpeggio backing as that one goes below D.  Another option for playing both parts at the original pitch would be an octave mandolin.  Of course, this assumes you want to use the treble clef violin adaptations I've posted -- there are also viola adaptations that transfer directly to mandola.  Check IMSLP.

It's fairly easy to overdub both parts: you need a computer running the free Audacity recording software, a USB microphone (I use a Zoom H2n recorder in USB mode) and headphones.  I have first recorded the arpeggio backing, then played the melody line while listening to the backing track on the headphones.  I find it is helpful to generate a click track in Audacity to keep the tempo steady when putting down the first track.

Martin

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## violmando

Sounds really good; that Suzuki has a nice tone. THANKS for posting this. I played this years ago in my bowed cello days....now I've got something to try.

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## Bartk1448

Thanks for the info, Martin.  Now I'm off to find and load Audacity.  Just one more question.  Can a midi voice be one of the tracks?  I ask because I have learned a couple of the Beethoven Mandolin and Piano parts and my piano is really out of tune.  Plus, I have been practicing with the midi piano part that I loaded on my computer using the music software, Finale.  I loaded both parts and then I just mute the Mandolin part and read it as it scrolls in front of me while it is playing.  This makes it really easy. I guess I don't need audacity for this, I can record it with a camera and have live action in the recording. However, I have a piece with two mandolins and piano by Calace, the Op. 78 Siciliana, that I could record using audacity.

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## Bartk1448

P.S.  I have a Suzuki mandola, so I like your choice in instruments, Martin

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## Martin Jonas

> Thanks for the info, Martin.  Now I'm off to find and load Audacity.  Just one more question.  Can a midi voice be one of the tracks?  I ask because I have learned a couple of the Beethoven Mandolin and Piano parts and my piano is really out of tune.  Plus, I have been practicing with the midi piano part that I loaded on my computer using the music software, Finale.  I loaded both parts and then I just mute the Mandolin part and read it as it scrolls in front of me while it is playing.  This makes it really easy. I guess I don't need audacity for this, I can record it with a camera and have live action in the recording. However, I have a piece with two mandolins and piano by Calace, the Op. 78 Siciliana, that I could record using audacity.


I haven't done it, but it should be straightforward to use a MIDI track as your backing track instead of a click track.  Audacity can import MIDI files, so you start with that and overdub the other instruments onto this.  You will need to have some lead-in notes or rhythm markers so that you have a cue for when to come in.

I recommend you use Audacity or something similar rather than recording directly into the video software, as you want to be able to adjust the relative volumes of the instruments after recording.  I also suggest you record all instruments in mono and then adjust the stereo positions after recording in Audacity.

Martin

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## bratsche

Sure, you can use a MIDI track in Audacity for your backing track.  When I recorded The Swan, I used a MIDI track to create the 2-piano "accompaniment" for my viola, and then played along with it (hearing it in my headphones) to record the viola track.

bratsche

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## Tavy

> Thanks for the info, Martin.  Now I'm off to find and load Audacity.  Just one more question.  Can a midi voice be one of the tracks?


Yes, and even if you don't use the MIDI in the final mix, it can useful to play along to.  Lot's of ways to get a MIDI audio into Audacity:

* It can import the MIDI file directly.
* You can play the MIDI back in other software and use MIDI's loopback feature to record it.
* You can use software like Synthfont to render a MIDI sequence direct to mp3 (or whatever).  Handy if you want to use custom soundfonts - there are some very good free piano soundfonts around that should sound a lot better than the default.

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## Martin Jonas

I have now restrung the mandocello with d'Addario J78 strings.  Despite the short-scale of the Suzuki 'cello, the string tension on these feels just fine -- as I had hoped, the short-scale is compensated by the fact that a flat/canted-top instrument is intended to take lower tension than a Gibson-style archtop mandocello.

The character of the J78 strings is completely different to the TI strings.  Much livelier with lots of resonances, more pick noise and more finger squeaking, but also a more balanced tone across the strings and less of the wet-rubber-band effect that the TI strings had especially on the G and C.  It's altogether a wilder and less cultivated experience.  I can see how different players would prefer one or the other -- I think on balance I prefer the J78.  I expect in any case that some of the bright edge will wear off as the strings settle down, just as J74 strings do on mandolins. 

For a compare-and-contrast on tone, I have now re-recorded the Saint-Saens piece with the new J78 strings.  It sounds quite different indeed -- see which version you prefer:

[MP3=2]http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114685&d=1393027958[/MP3]



For another set of comparison, I have also recorded the Bourree I&II from the Third Cello Suite both with the TI strings and the J78 strings:

a) D'Addario J78 strings:

[MP3=3]http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114686&d=1393028039[/MP3]

b) TI strings:

[MP3=4]http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114687&d=1393028119[/MP3]

Taking it fairly slow while I'm still finding my way around the 'cello.  Nice to finally play the Cello Suites at the intended pitch!

The recordings actually sound more similar than how they did when I played them, but again there is a rubber-band effect on the TI bass strings that isn't there on the J78.

Martin

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## Tavy

It's always hard to say from recordings as you know, but the swan in particular has a much more light and airy feel to it than it did before.  I didn't find the fret noise excessive either.  Looks like the D'Addario's is the way to go then, I think once you get used to the instrument it's going to sound surprising good especially considering the short scale!  Well done on playing those Bourree's on the 'cello, I sometimes try to play those on OM and that's bad enough, can't image getting round them on a 'cello  :Smile:

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## bratsche

Well, I didn't hear anything with the Thomastiks that I would have characterized as "rubber-band effect"; in fact I liked them quite well.  The D'Addarios were significantly different, but okay too, except for the tremolo, that is.  Sorry to say the round-wound tremolo sound just doesn't do anything positive for me at all on this cello (sort of a "dental drill effect", IMO).  If it were mine, I'd just use the Thomastiks (as usual; what else is new?  LOL!).

bratsche

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## Martin Jonas

Thanks, Tavy/bratsche!  Your views neatly summarise the two conflicting responses I experience myself, and are more or less what I had expected from your earlier comments.  Tonal preferences are so personal that it's hard to pin down objective criteria.  This is still very much a work in progress and I haven't made any decisions yet, not least because the J78 strings still have a bright edge which I suspect will disappear with use (it does when using J74 strings on mandolin) and which probably accounts for  the twang that bratsche dislikes on the tremolo.  Also, pick choice massively influences tone and ease of playing on the 'cello.  I will leave the roundwounds on for a little while now and then may try one more set, probably either Dogal or Optima, i.e. a classical set of roundwounds.  The Optima set in particular looks promising.  I wonder what the "special grinding" for the mandocello set is and how it differs from Optima's "normal" grinding which sells for almost the same price.  Unfortunately, both are quite a bit more expensive than the d'Addarios so I'm less inclined to experiment extensively than on mandolin.

Martin

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