# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Strad-O-Lin Mystery

## Catmando

I have just purchased this beautiful looking/sounding Strad-O-Lin.  I am not sure I have ever come across or seen one that is hand carved and bound so well.  Every thing is original on this including the case.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/album.php?albumid=760

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## MikeEdgerton

I had one just like that few years ago. That one is pretty nice in the grand scheme of things. Make sure you upload some pictures to the Strad-O-Lin social group. By the way, if you haven't seen it, here's mine.

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## Catmando

Mike, Wow!  Follow the link on my post and their are more pics.  I will update them with better images soon.  Any Idea of date? Value? Origin?

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## BradKlein

Do you think that ANY of the various strads were hand carved?  All the variations I've seen looked like pressed front and back, even those with solid wood.

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## MikeEdgerton

There are rumors of a few surfacing that were carved. 

As far as more information on origin and such, there are links to the theories in the Strad-O-Lin Social Group.

As for values, all over the place. I paid $50.00 including shipping for mine.

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## Catmando

From my experience owning and playing mandolins, I am sure that this is carved.  With a mirror in the f-hole you can see the evidence.  I am not looking to sell this, however, I wonder if there are precedents for pricing such instruments.  Thanks for your comments.  I will post some sound samples. This is the sound I have been looking for.  If you can't tell already, I am so giddy about this thing I could wet myself.  Been there?

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## Michael Gowell

I saw a similar one this morning on the bench of a local luthier...except it was Electric, w/ a really sweet D'Armond pickup.  The most striking difference is the f holes...no circle at each end, an extemely slim f hole with just a tiny nicked-out notch instead of the usually significantly carved notch on each side of the f.  Unfortunately it was no longer for sale.

I'm amazed at the emerging variations in Strad-o-lin appointments and designs.  How could their history be so obscure when obviously many people were involved in producing them for decades.

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## Spruce

> I wonder if there are precedents for pricing such instruments.


They are _waaaayyyyy_ undervalued, IMHO...

I recently bought one for 200 bucks that looks similar to yours, and it's a killer mandolin...

Turns out it was a friend's (who we all know around here) first-ever mandolin, so I sold it to him a couple days ago for double what I payed for it....

But if I had to value it, I'd say it's worth twice that, or about 800 bucks...
They can be that good, in my opinion, and that one was...

The woods are top-notch (even if they might be pressed), and they have a sound all their own....

You can see it here....

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## Capt. E

That Strad looks very much like a Kay that is up on ebay right now. Same ff holes, same maple on back etc.   Very interesting.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Actually it is a one-piece back and the ff holes are a bit different...still interesting. It had a buy it now of 125 and is probably a good buy at that or less.  
I think we have probably heard of the manufacturer of all these instruments. I remember a discussion of Strad-O-Lin and mention of who made their mandolins. Several changes over the years and perhaps more than one manufacturer at any one period of time. Same with Kay, same with Harmony, etc. Just like many of the japanese produced instruments of the 70's - 80's. Same factory produced instruments for Alvarez, Ibanez, Aria, etc.

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## MikeEdgerton

Kay and Harmony were both companies based in Chicago. All of the Chicago builders did business with the same jobbers and with each other. Thus you'll find the occasional known Kay body style labeled Harmony and such. That's actually pretty rare. The stuff that was imported had little to do with the companies that existed prior to them being shipped offshore. The stuff that comes in now labled Kay has no relationship what-so-ever with the the company that was in Chicago. The Strad-O-Lin's on the other hand have never been positively identified as to who the maker was. The company that owned the name farmed that work out, most likely to a company based in NYC or NJ. The Strad-O-Lin social group has message threads that point to the messages on the message board that discuss this.

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## Capt. E

It is just interesting how much the Kay now on ebay looks like Catmando's Strad-O-Lin. It seems they were likely made in the same shop. 
I agree the later asian produced Harmony and Kay instruments are another matter altogether.

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## Spruce

> It is just interesting how much the Kay now on ebay looks like Catmando's Strad-O-Lin. It seems they were likely made in the same shop.


Not to these eyes....
YMMV.....

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## MikeEdgerton

Kay didn't make them, they simply have similar segmented f holes but they really are no where near the same.

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## Capt. E

Will bow to the superior knowledge...  I know Strad-O-Lin has quite a different reputation that has Kay.

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## allenhopkins

Speculation on Strad-O-Lin "parentage" has centered around several NY-area firms: Hoverick Bros., Homenick Bros., Oscar Schmidt.  The name similarity between "Hoverick" and "Homenick" probably causes much confusion, since the _Mugwumps_ index only shows Hoverick making instruments in the 1920's, while Homenick went on for much longer (as did Strad-O-Lin).  Kay was Chicago-based, and the similarities between Kay and Strad-O-Lin mandolins don't appear to be evidence of an actual manufacturing relationship.

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## Catmando

So for now I will play a great mandolin and wonder about its origin date etc...  But damn, what a woody bark/banjo killer/thump of an axe.  Thanks for all your imput.  Keep it coming.

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## MikeEdgerton

The date is probably the 30's and they are wonderful. Make sure you post those pictures on the social group. It probably has more Strad-O-Lin information in one place than any place else on the web.

Oops, I see you did. Thanks.

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## dan in va

Do these fancy SOL's have real body binding?  Pics posted by Catmando and Mike seem to show binding, and the blonde one in Spruce's post looks a little more like painted on trim.

Also, how clean is the work inside the box?

Is the bracing in these fancy models the standard SOL transverse type, tone bars, or something else?

The neck angle looks pretty shallow...less than 5 degrees?

Thanks...dan

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## MikeEdgerton

The binding on mine is real, the vast majority were painted on. Mine is clean inside as well. I've honestly never looked at the bracing inside mine, one of these days I will.

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## grassrootphilosopher

Let me guess that the 30ies Strad-O-Lins have a cross brace. That and the f-holes makes the sound a sort of hybrid between a vintage oval-hole and a tone-bar f-hole instrument. At least they sound vintage in a very good way.

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## Spruce

> Let me guess that the 30ies Strad-O-Lins have a cross brace. That and the f-holes makes the sound a sort of hybrid between a vintage oval-hole and a tone-bar f-hole instrument. At least they sound vintage in a very good way.


I've never recorded a Stradolin, but I'll bet they sound fabulous on tape...
Unique sound for sure...

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## Capt. E

Listen to Peter, Paul & Mary...Paul played a Strad-O-Lin

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## MikeEdgerton

I thought that PP&M had a band member that played one, I think Jamie knows who it was. I could be wrong.

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## Givson

Paul Prestopino was the mandolin player with Peter, Paul and Mary.

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## Catmando

My Strad-o-lin is the Maple one in question.  It has real binding, in fact on the back, there is a slight portion that will sooner or later will need to be filled with hide glue. It may be a dark wood binding, but maybe an early plastic.  The inside is very clean, and it has a row of very fine cleats down the middle of the back center seam.  It is hard to tell about the top bracing, however there is a single brace that I can see with a mirror across the top just below the F-holes.  I have posted new close-ups on the Strad-o-Lin social group site.  I am working on sound samples.  I would love feedback on what you think of the sound, I like it.... but do not have much to compare it to. Thanks again for all the great conversation.

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## dan in va

Carmando,

Thanks very much for educating us here with all the excellent info.  I hope to find one similar to any of the three top shelf ones posted depicted here.  Please contact me if you ever want to find another caring home for it.  Looking forward to the sound samples also.  What a treat!!

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## grassrootphilosopher

> I've never recorded a Stradolin, but I'll bet they sound fabulous on tape...
> Unique sound for sure...


It sure does sound fabulous on tape (or hard disk drive...). It records easy and has a sweet vintage tone to it. The tone on tape is quite unlike an F-5 style tone. While the F-5 style tone is quite punchy, hard, "brash"(?) and difficult to record (for me), the Strad-O-Lin takes a microphone very much with grace coaxing it to take the best of sound. I have a difficult time recording my expensive mandolin and my very good banjo while the old guitar is easier to record (as seems the Strad-O-Lin). But recording an instrument is an art to itself. 

The Strad-O-Lin also sounds great from the front (and from behind) while of course it cannot put out like a good F-5. But it takes a real good instrument to sound as good as the old little oddball. For what it´s worth I´ll think of it proudly when on a festival a pro musician (connected with the IBMA) came all the way across the campground telling me that he thought the Strad-O-Lin was an old F-5. 

And since I like it so much, here it is:

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## dan in va

Some of these de-luxe models look to have 3-piece necks and a treble clef or other design on the peghead.  I've seen others with sealed tuners.  Do the lower models have these characteristics, or are they upper model features?

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## Bruce Clausen

There's lots of variables, and since Strads have no labels or numbers, it isn't easy to tell which features have to do with date and which with price level.  The OP's Strad has good-looking woods, the three-piece neck, and purfling along the fingerboard.  So a fancier model.  But the logo on the head looks stencilled, and it has the shorter neck, the "dot" f-holes, and the squared-off fingerboard end. Olaf's has the other style of f-holes and fingerboard end, which may point to an earlier date, but not a higher model level. I haven't seen any with sealed tuners.

BC

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## Spruce

> It sure does sound fabulous on tape (or hard disk drive...). It records easy and has a sweet vintage tone to it. The tone on tape is quite unlike an F-5 style tone.


Ya know, I had a Strad-o-lin for only a short while, and with lousy old strings to boot...

And every time I played it, I thought "this is a great _recording_ mandolin...

Dry, woody, with a great "old" sound....

Any way you could post a sample of your recorded Strad, grassrootphilosopher?
Love to hear it if "yes"......

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## Jean Fugal

this looks like a sealed tuner
http://cgi.ebay.com/Strad-O-Lin-Mand...#ht_500wt_1182

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## dan in va

This very mando prompted my question.  Since I haven't seen the closed tuner backs on the old ones, it may be a later one or replacement.  Y'know, I'm learning that it's pretty hard to keep a secret around here!

dan

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## Jean Fugal

Ain't no secrets on the WWW

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## Spruce

> Ain't no secrets on the WWW


Well, you'd think that _somebody_ would have spilled the beans as to who made these Strad-o-lins, where they were made, and when, no?....

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## Catmando

If the beans were spilled?... Then what?  Maybe all the top end Strad-O-Lins were made by Lloyd Loar while teaching at Northwestern.  He had his students doing all the production and marketing in order to support his life long dream of opening a stringed instrument theme park.  Kind of like "Dolly-Wood".... "The Magic Mandolin Kingdom".  I kid.

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## MikeEdgerton

If I'm not mistaken those closed back tuners were made in Italy, I've seen them before on 50's and 60's instruments. They could have been replacements or they could have been originals if someone was putting the last of the old stuff together. Since we don't know who made them (there are a few theory's floated, read about them in the Social Group) we really don't know when they stopped making these things.

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## Bruce Clausen

Here's a sound clip of mine, a little tune that shows that dry thunky sound.

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## Michael Gowell

Catmandu - genius.  Thanks.

And Bruce, so nice - notes so thick you could slice them up like cake...congrats.

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## BradKlein

Nice job Bruce.  Is that an original tune?

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## Mark Marino

Here's a picture of the brace in mine.  Solid top, and appeared to be carved as well.  Great sound, especially for a 'beater.

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## Bruce Clausen

Thanks, Michael and Brad. Yes, Brad, it's my tune.  

Mark, did you do some work on yours? Is it back together? 

The catalogue copy on my model says "graduated top and back like a violin", but I have my doubts.

BC

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## Mark Marino

Bruce- when I bought that Strad, the back had separated from the side (rib), and under tension the rib had bulged out around the tailpiece.  I did a very 'functionally beautiful' restoration that befits a festival instrument... aint pretty, but works well.   I posted some other pics at that time, as I was surprised once I opened it up- although the back had been painted black, the wood used was nice and flamey as well.  

If it worked right, here's a link to a thread where I posed a few pictures of it.  Althought the back was plywoood, the front was clearly solid.  http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...dolin-surprise

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## bratsche

Thought I'd chime in here... my local CL had an ad last Friday night for one of these labeled instruments for dirt cheap, stating "needs TLC".  It was 2 am when I saw it, and on a whim because of this thread and others, I e-mailed the seller (there was no phone listed) and said I was interested in the mandolin, had to work in the morning, but gave my number and said they should please call me at 12:30, so I could hopefully go see it then (the listed location was roughly halfway between my gig and home).  Then I did what I seldom do, left the cellphone on, and as I was getting ready to leave after my rehearsal, it rang. 

The instrument belonged to an older woman who had used it for old timey music, but had become disabled and no longer played.  It had no case and was literally covered with dust and had rusty, crusty strings.  The tuners were really stiff so I settled for tuning it up to about  E - B - F# - C#,  played a few lines of Bach, and even in spite of all that, it had a surprisingly lively sound.  I told her I'd risk it  for an old vintage piece, and paid her.     She said she would have to inform about 8 other e-mailers that it was sold.  Wow!!  Who would have thought there would be that kind of interest around here?  I don't even know any other local mandolin players.

I was expecting a basket case, but it's really not.  Nothing that a good cleaning and lubing couldn't fix.  I didn't even put new strings on it, since I had no light ones other than flatwound, but instead looked through a pile of old used ones that I had replaced (yes, I'm a weird packrat type, I save 'em all!) and put together a suitable trial set.  And it sounds really robust now.  Body is entirely structurally sound, the top is in nce cosmetic shape, but the back, again with the black paint job, is majorly chipped and scratched, but nothing going down all the way to the wood, though. No cracks or breaks or warpage anywhere, straight neck; Waverly cloud tailpiece, riveted on amber streaked celluloid (?) tailpiece cover matching the pickguard, all are there and in good shape.

Part of me wants to strip down the paint just to see what it looks like underneath, since it's so worn and chipped already (and then learn how to re-paint it decently if the wood is plain or unattractive).  The other side of me just wants to leave it as is and make it my officially designated beater.  But to have an instrument that plays in tune and sounds decent for only $50, well, I can hardly believe that such a thing would be possible in this day and age!

bratsche, off to join the SOL social group.  (BTW, those initials sure sound funny!  :Laughing:  )

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## Spruce

_"Wow!! Who would have thought there would be that kind of interest around here?"_

The power of the Mandolin Cafe...    :Wink: 

_"Part of me wants to strip down the paint..."_

No!
When these things eclipse A models in value after Thile uses his to record his duo record with Bruce Clausen ("Dueling Strad-o-Lins"), you'll wish you hadn't...   :Wink:

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## bratsche

LOL!  

Thile owns a SOL?  For real?   :Disbelief:   Naaaaaah!   

Oh, you meant Elmer Thile, down in Podunk, right?    :Laughing: 

bratsche

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...off to join the SOL social group...


Be sure to post some pictures in the group photos.

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## bratsche

> Be sure to post some pictures in the group photos.


Done, Mike!   :Smile: 

bratsche

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## MikeEdgerton

Wonderful. Great shots.

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## grassrootphilosopher

> Ya know, I had a Strad-o-lin for only a short while, and with lousy old strings to boot...
> 
> And every time I played it, I thought "this is a great _recording_ mandolin...
> 
> Dry, woody, with a great "old" sound....
> 
> Any way you could post a sample of your recorded Strad, grassrootphilosopher?
> Love to hear it if "yes"......


Okay, I hope attaching a soundclip worked. Mind you, it´s nothing grand. "Were You There When They Crucified My Lord" was recorded live at Radio Barneveld, NL in May 2006. My friend Gabi and I each played into vocal mics (Shure presumably) and instrument mics (dunno what kind). Gabi played a 70ies square shoulder Gibson J-45 and I played the Strad-O-Lin. I don´t know if there was any mastering equalizing etc. involved. I may find yet another recording that gives a "more truthful" impression of the instrument.

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## Bruce Clausen

Sounds great, Olaf.  Right in the style, and that sounds like exactly the right instrument for the job.

BC

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## bratsche

Very nice playing, Olaf!  And your instrument sounds great!

While I play (mostly Bach) in an obviously entirely different style, I am amazed that this little SOL of mine is turning out to be such a great voice for that, too.  (No recordings - yet - but perhaps one day, if I learn how to do it cheaply!)

Honestly,   I don't understand what has happened here at all.  This was not supposed to be an instrument that I would personally enjoy.  Not at all.  It is made of laminated wood, for pete's sake.  I bought it just because of the cult following here, and intended only to clean it up and then flip it, because the $50 price was certainly right, and I could certainly use the money I could make on it.   In my head, I had already begun composing the wording of my classifieds ad...  "nice shape old Strad-O-Lin, no structural issues, plays easily, good sound _but not personally my cup of tea_...." etc., etc.

It also has f-holes, for crying out loud - my only non-bowed instrument that does - so how on earth could it possibly produce the amount of sustain that I crave??  But, inexplicably, by any logical reasoning, it does.  And I always thought these were weird, funny-looking odd ducks.  But the appearance of mine is even strangely beginning to captivate my mind....  my MidMo M-2 is getting jealous from my two-timng, even...  :Laughing: 

It was not supposed to happen this way.   But my SOL is definitely both a player and a keeper.   

Serendipity hath struck again.    :Smile:  

bratsche

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## MikeEdgerton

Have you scraped away any finish from inside the f-hole? I haven't seen too many of these that were laminated. There are some but certailnly not the majority of them, most had solid tops.

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## bratsche

I think I see three thin layers, but definitely two; and no, I haven't scraped anything away.  But it made me think laminate right away because of the absence of any of the straight parallel grains typical of spruce on the top layer, whatever wood it is.  The top surface would be uniform and just about if not entirely grain-free if it weren't for the patterns of crackling from finish aging that give somewhat an illusion of grain, albeit an irregular one, and definitely not like your typical spruce top at all.

And yet, as I said, it sounds very good.  If a laminate SOL sounds like this, I'd love to get my hands on a solid top one.

bratsche

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## Catmando

So I found this on the web. By someone who claims there was a Strad-O-Lin Company in Chicago in the 40's.  Feedback experts?http://www.emando.com/builders_inactive/Stradolin.htm

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## allenhopkins

Mike Holmes of _Mugwumps_ says that the maker of Strad-O-Lin mandolins is "a mystery,"and if Holmes doesn't know, I'm pretty sure no one else posting about instruments on the internet does either.  The later history of the Strad-O-Lin label, when it was sold to Peter Sorkin Music and then associated with Multivox ('60's and later) is pretty well-known.  "Strad-O-Lin" got stuck on a variety of inexpensive domestic and imported instruments; I've seen a Strad-O-Lin *trombone* for sale, and electric guitars and amps with that nameplate are pretty common.  Most discussions of Strad-O-Lins have mentioned the NY/NJ area, where Hoverick, Homenick, and Oscar Schmidt were located, but I've heard speculation that some models were built in Chicago by Harmony and/or Kay/Stromberg-Voisinet.

There's *gotta* be someone out there who worked for Strad-O-Lin in the '40's, or picked up shipments of their products at some shop and delivered them to distributors, or had some association with production of the mandolins.  So far, that person hasn't come forth to solve the mystery.  Maybe it'll happen.

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