# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  Fender Electric Mandolins

## F-2 Dave

I play a '62 Fender four string. There doesn't seem to be much conversation about them on the site. Maybe there has been in times past and I missed it. Anyway, are there a lot of other vintage Fender players out there? What do you play through? Effects, etc?

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## greg_tsam

Mine isn't vintage yet but I'm working on it.  Baggs PADI, multi-effects, boss GE-7 and Ultrasound ds4

and my 4 string has an extra set of strings.  haha sorry I should have read closer.  Maybe I should just put on 4 strings next time I change them and see how that works.

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## Ken Olmstead

I want a real vintage one...BAD! Even before I played mandolin, I would look at them in books and go "now that's cool!" Now that I play mandolin I would love to have one! I would play it through my champ with my Verbzilla like I do my Kentucky 300e, but my smile would be a LOT bigger!!  :Grin: 

Dave, toss up a picture of yours and your rig if you get a chance!! Thanks!

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## F-2 Dave

I play mine through an old white Bassman about the same vintage. I use a little danelectro reverb pedal. I really like the sound although my E string is a little weak through the pickup. I posted a picture of the mandolin in the 'post a picture' section a week or so ago. It should still be there somewhere. They are cool little instruments, especially if you're into old Fender stuff like I am. I'd like to have an old fender electric violin someday but they're even harder to come by than the old mandolins.

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## Mike Herlihy

> I play mine through an old white Bassman about the same vintage. I use a little danelectro reverb pedal. I really like the sound although my E string is a little weak through the pickup. I posted a picture of the mandolin in the 'post a picture' section a week or so ago. It should still be there somewhere. They are cool little instruments, especially if you're into old Fender stuff like I am. I'd like to have an old fender electric violin someday but they're even harder to come by than the old mandolins.


Like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/rare-1971-FENDER...3A1|240%3A1318

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## Daniel Nestlerode

the post a pic thread with Dave's mandocaster:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...633#post622633

Nice!
Top loading barrel bridge was an interesting production decision.  I guess Fender didn't want to drill holes through the body?   :Smile: 

Daniel

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## F-2 Dave

Mike, Yes, like that. Actually Fender took a couple of hitches at fiddle building. I think the first ones were made around '58 or '59. They were re-introduced in the late '60's or early '70's then discontinued around 1976. Later, around '00 they came up with a new line of violins. I suppose they are still making them, but I'd really like one from the first generation. 
Daniel, I don't know why they didn't use the string through design on the mandolins either. Thanks for bringing up the photos from the other section.

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## F-2 Dave

This is my bass/lead amp. I play bass in the group, but I switch off to mandolin for some stuff.

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oheare

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## Christian McKee

I *love* those white Bassman heads and cabs, always have.  And for my part, I don't have one of the mandocasters because:

1) They're missing a C string, 
2) $.  

If they had made five string versions, I might actually be prowling for one.  As it is, other priorities keep me away, though I play my friend's '58 as often as he'll let me, and I love it!

Christian

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## Dan Margolis

Any ideas on how to make an old Fender mandolin intonate well?

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## Jim Bevan

"an old Fender mandolin" meaning a mandocaster?

Intonation being the least of their problems, I haven't ever felt that I was out-of-tune more than I was out-of-tone.   :Smile: 

Where does the intonation bug you? 
  Way up the neck? 
    Solution: with a few compromise-adjustments, you can make it quite listenable. 
  Or, just the B on the A-string sounding so sharp in a normal open-position G-chord?
    Solution: don't play that chord-voicing!

All that said (and now that I'm on this post) -- I love these instruments!
Every other 4-string electric mandolin sounds like just that: a 4-string electric mandolin (although the Les Paul thing in my avatar really does sound pretty Gibson-y),
but a mandocaster sounds like a real soprano version of a Fender Mustang (which, admittedly, is not Leo's high point), and they blend with Strats better than all the rest.
Their history shines clearly, through the right amp.

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## rico mando

try heavier strings. those super lights will go sharp if you do more than barely touch them.

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## Dan Margolis

Yeah.  A '66.  If an angled set of saddles were available (like they are for 3-saddle Teles) the problem would be largely solved.  And yeah, it's primitive, but it is very cool.   Dan

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## Daniel Nestlerode

I'd love one of these in the same way that I'd love a Martin guitar made before 1900.  They're treasures in and of themselves, but I think more recent/modern examples are better at suiting my needs as a player.  

I would never consider altering an original mandocaster (especially a pre-CBS mandocaster) the way I altered my FM-988.  It has new larger frets, new pickguard, and a new bridge.  Likewise I'd never get that nineteenth century Martin and re-brace it for steel strings.

The next electric mandolin I get will be a 5 string with 2 pickups.  Unless a Fender mandocaster lands in my lap.  :Wink: 

Daniel

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## Dan Margolis

If I could get angled saddles as I mentioned above I would install them, since it would be a non-intensive way to correct the intonation.

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## Chief

I had a late 50's mandocaster in the mid 80's that I sold for $200!!!!!I needed the money, and I only paid $200 for it and a Fender Champ tube amp (which I still have). Who would've guessed they'd be worth so much now?

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## Dan Margolis

When my outer strings are perfect, the inner two are out.  I've been thinking about angled saddles.  Old fashioned Tele bridges have three saddles for six strings, as Mandocasters have two saddles for four strings.  Years ago Tele players would bend the screws to angle the saddles and intonate the guitar.  I did it.  Then companies started machining compensated saddles.  Somebody could do this for Mandocasters, if they were motivated.  It's non-invasive, it would be fairly cheap.  Callaham sells beautiful Tele saddles (set of three) in brass for $37, in stainless steel for $45.  Due to the smaller market, they could sell two-piece mandolin sets for the same money.  I'd pay $40 to have my M-caster play in tune!  I emailed Callaham suggesting they make some, maybe if you own a mandocaster and are interested, you could also let them know:  callaham@callahamguitars.com 

If they don't want to, maybe some other company will, or perhaps a mando enthusiast with a machine shop could do it.  Could anybody else with a Mandocaster weigh in here?   Dan

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## Jim Bevan

I have more than I should, so yes, I'll weigh in here:

Steve Ryder makes a Tele kind of thing, with compensated saddles. I've ordered one, and it'll be finished when I get home in August, so I'll see what's what. (I know, that's no help today! But you could check out his site, and see that at least someone is making angled saddles.)

Another thing wrong with mandocaster saddles is the fact that they are really just bolts, which means that the groove that the string lies in is actually on an angle, because it's part of a spiral. It gives a slight sitar-like buzz to the strings that's a little annoying, and also impedes the sustain. I don't have one with me to check, but I'm curious to know if a compensated saddle might fix the sitar buzz, or make it worse, depending on which way the threads are going.

The thing is, where do you stop?
Other than once putting a '56 pickguard on a '65, all I ever change is the tuners and the strap buttons (I use DiMarzio Cliplocks), but I could easily replace the bridge, re-position the pickup (which would involve making new cuts in the body, putting on a new pickguard) closer to the neck, move the volume knob closer to the bridge...

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## Dan Margolis

You know, changing two saddles in a Mandocaster is hardly a major refIt.  It made a huge difference putting compensated saddles on my Tele, and the originals are in a labelled bag in the case.  I want to play this instrument, and I want to be in tune.  It's got a great neck, it's very "live" and easy to play.  It just needs to be in slightly better tune.  The replacements would not be threaded like the originals, but smooth.  The Tele ones on the Callaham and Vintique sites look really good.  Unfortunately, the saddle dimensions are not the same for Teles and mandolins.

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## Jim Bevan

I agree with you 100%, Dan.
Here's a pic of Stever Ryder's saddle:
http://www.sjryder.com/sadlz.jpg
He also makes (and _sells_ -- I doubt that he's selling the saddles) replacement mandocaster pickups, which I plan to buy and test drive one day.

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## mandroid

...   getting a 4 saddle bridge made for these  is heresy?

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## Dan Margolis

I've had good luck with the compensated saddles.  A four-saddle replacement bridge strikes me as a lot more involved, and no longer a simple drop-in.  I wouldn't elevate it to the level of heresy.   I _do_ like the vintage three saddle on my Tele, and thought that I'd like the vintage two saddle on the mandocaster.

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## Dan Margolis

And I think that the sonics of the Mandocaster would improve with better compensated saddles, in addition to better intonation.

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## Jim Bevan

Exactly, and probably by quite a lot -- those threaded saddles buzz against the strings, muting and adding weird harmonics.

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## Jim Bevan

It would be nice if we could talk Mr. Ryder into making and selling an all-in-one upgrade kit: tuners, saddles, and the optional pickup.
Maybe I'll give it a go, after the EM-24 is finished in the summer.

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## mandroid

Rather than rely on angling a round piece to get the offsets, you could make a stair like offset 
and drill and tap the shrew threads, square,  in say aluminum, or brass.  
 file till the offset  difference is right .

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## Dan Margolis

I spoke with Larry Smoak, a luthier who owns Wooden Wizard in VA.  He was referred to me by Frank at Joe Barden.  Larry said that he could make compensated saddles, but he would need a Fender mandocaster in hand in order to measure, craft and fit them.  I'm willing to ship mine to him.  If any of us who own these vintage Fenders were interested perhaps he could make a batch, and, just speculating, maybe the cost would go down a bit.  He would only need one mandocaster to do this; like saddles for Teles, the dimensions would not change from instrument to instrument.  If there is any interest, let's hear it and see if we can get something going!  Thanks, Dan

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## mandroid

As long as there is agreement on string gages and types..  or just a ballpark  range ..  CGDA offsets quite different from  GDAE of course.  

flat wound versus round wound a lesser difference , but may be able to be heard..  rough blanks drilled and tapped and supplied with setscrews..
 with enough metal left to file off on final installation  may be practical ..

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## Dan Margolis

I tune emandos just like a regular mandolin.  Aftermarket Tele saddles are sold ready to install--look at the Callaham or Barden sites to see what they do.  Personally, I'm _not_ lookin' to file any metal.  One mistake and it's trash!

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## Jim Bevan

I'd ship him one of mine, if I was home, but I won't be home until the last two weeks of August.
(I wonder if he needs the whole instrument, or could he make do with just the bridge..?)

Anyways, yep, I'm in, GDAE roundwound.

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## Dan Margolis

I'll talk to Larry again this week about this.  If anyone else who owns a vintage mandocaster would be interested in compensated saddles, please let me know.  Dan

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## Dan Margolis

Sooooo...I had a set of Fender electric mandolin saddles made for me by Michael Slotboom of Armadillo Machine Works LLC in Austin TX.  website:  http://armadillomachine.com/

Michael did a great job, even though he did not have the instrument in hand and instead relied on my measurements of my original saddles with bent screw intonation a la Telecaster.  The result:  a _much more in tune_ Fender mandolin!  I have tweaked the setup pretty much to the limits of my ability, and it is very, very close.  Close enough, in fact, to use on gigs and jams.  If any owners of vintage Fenders (mine is a '66) live in or near Austin, Michael would be glad to check it out and probably improve it a bit more.  Here are pix of my mando before and after the new saddles were installed:  

http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/a...ic%20mandolin/

I have troubles posting pix on the Cafe, but the Photobucket pix are good.  

Michael used brass saddle material that is thicker than the original Fender mandolin saddles.  I like this for two reasons:  1) Brass helps tame the twangyness of the mandolin, and 2) I believe that the heavier saddles also help the tone.  Although he sent me long screws and new springs, I used the originals and saved the stuff that I didn't use.

It was great dealing with Michael (I have no financial interest), and if you want saddles like these, send him an email.  _No one else makes these_.  If the angles can be further refined I would not hesitate to purchase another set, cuz the price was very reasonable.  That said, I'm very happy with these, and look forward to using this mandolin onstage.  They are a gigantic improvement!

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## Dan Margolis

After posting I brought the Fender to my repair guy, who does superb work.  He's going to fix one bad fret, and also look at the saddle and maybe file it to perfect the intonation.  If anyone can do it, he can.

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## Soundfarmer Pete

Do these look useful  (last but one item on page)?
http://www.axesrus.com/axeSaddlesh.htm
Wilkinson also does compensated saddles!

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## Dan Margolis

The first thing I looked into was using Tele saddles, but they don't work--they are not wide enough.  Anyone that makes Tele saddles can make these, but most don't want to because it's a small market.  Michael Slotboom (Armadillo Machine) makes them now, and they're much, much better than the stock saddles.  The last little 2% of refinement will simply require Michael to get his hands on a vintage Fender electric so that he can tweak the saddle angles _slightly._  If that doesn't happen, these saddles are still great.  For around $25, your vintage Fender mandolin will play in tune.

I guess I should say, "long enough".  Mandolin saddles are longer than Tele saddles.

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## ortha

I just ordered a set of these for my beloved 66 Mandocaster. I can't wait to install them.

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## mandroid

yea hard to heat the shop in Maine  enough for Lacquer with snow up to the windowsill.

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