# Music by Genre > Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex >  Best Old Time Intruction for Intermediate Player

## Pick&Grin

Hey all,

I've been moving more and more into old time and looking for good instruction (book or online) for an intermediate-level player. Any advice would be more than appreciated. 
Many thanks!

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## LongBlackVeil

You don't need no stinking instructions for old time! Just learn the tunes!

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fatt-dad, 

Pick&Grin, 

Ray54

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## JeffD

There is some truth to that.

Just learn the tunes and don't chop.

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## Manfred Hacker

> You don't need no stinking instructions for old time! Just learn the tunes!


Pick & Grin, here is another friendly answer for you:
Carl Jones Old Time Mandolin Tunes and Tips
http://www.elderly.com/videos/items/...LLE-DVD012.htm

I don't own this DVD but I have heard him play in an intimate setting and he sounded wonderful.

By the way. "Learning" the tunes is not everything. I can learn the tune and still not sound Old-Timey. Over at the Song-a-Week Social Group there is a lady that can make sound EVERYTHING old-timey, while I am always struggling with it, although I would have the technical skills, I believe.
Same thing on the fiddle. You can "learn" a tune but bowing in an old-timey style is a different kettle of fish.

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Caleb, 

Pick&Grin

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## Pick&Grin

Thanks Manfred Hacker; I think I might give that DVD a try! Yes, following tab is one thing, the sound is something one can pick up, but there are always useful tips, eh?

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## onassis

Perhaps not as "instructional" as you might be looking for, but I thought this tune collection looked interesting.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/79773

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Pick&Grin

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## Mark Wilson

Have you looked in the tablature archive here on MandolinCafe? In the Old Time section.

I would like a good source CD for OT tunes myself

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Pick&Grin

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## LongBlackVeil

I think in any music, but maybe even more so with old time. Listening is the most important thing. My problem with books and DVDs (at least the ones I have purchased over the years) is that they spend way too much time teaching tunes, instead of giving tips and teaching how to really listen. It's a personal pet peeve of mine when I buy a book or dvd, and I end up with a songbook or some guy showing me tabs and teaching tunes. 

I can get that by myself, for free, that's why honestly at this point I'm really cynical about DVDs and books. I don't know,
Maybe the dvd mentioned above is better than I think, but I'm not going to be shelling out for another DVD, Most have been a waste of money for me, I have learned most of what I know by listening and learning tunes by ear and by studying jazzmandos ffcp (again free). The ffcp helps learn by ear because if you know the key, you can apply the ffcp and now you know almost all the notes, you just have to put them in order

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Pick&Grin

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## Pick&Grin

Thanks onassis and Mark Wilson! These are very helpful!

Thank you, too, LongBlackVeil. Yes, this has been a frustration of mine, too, and why I am also cautious about books/dvds/etc., hence the post. Thanks so much for turning me on to ffcp! I'd been consciously doing 1st position ffcp on my solos without realizing it was a thing. Googling it, if found http://jazzmando.com/ffcp.shtml, and am definitely going to get working on the other positions. Thanks for that!

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## LongBlackVeil

> Thanks onassis and Mark Wilson! These are very helpful!
> 
> Thank you, too, LongBlackVeil. Yes, this has been a frustration of mine, too, and why I am also cautious about books/dvds/etc., hence the post. Thanks so much for turning me on to ffcp! I'd been consciously doing 1st position ffcp on my solos without realizing it was a thing. Googling it, if found http://jazzmando.com/ffcp.shtml, and am definitely going to get working on the other positions. Thanks for that!


I'm glad you looked it up then. Honestly ffcp I think has helped me more than anything so far. Like I said, it really makes it easier to learn by ear, which I think is the ultimate learning method. Ffcp is important no matter what style your playing. Another good site is mandozine.com. Lots of good stuff there. lessons, exercises, tabs, all kinds of stuff.

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Pick&Grin

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## Pick&Grin

Ace! Thanks, LongBlackVeil!

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## farmerjones

If I could offer one thing it would be this: Have the ability to swing OR play stuff squarely. Lots of OT fiddle stuff, if it's swung it starts to sound grassy. That's OK if you realize it. If that's what you want. But I'd say having the skill to adjust or shut that swing off will ingratiate you to the OT world. Playing hornpipes and such, sometimes they want to play them with a lilt. This is another rhythm thing that needs to be mastered. Conquer the subtleties. One subset being rhythms. Stemming from OT being the music that folks dance to.

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Pick&Grin

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## Jacob Hagerty

Here is a great website that i have been using to learn Old-Time fiddle tunes.  Enjoy.  :Smile:  some of the recordings are pretty rough but still good.
http://slippery-hill.com

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Mark Wilson, 

Pick&Grin, 

Ryk Loske

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## Perry

> Pick & Grin, here is another friendly answer for you:
> Carl Jones Old Time Mandolin Tunes and Tips
> http://www.elderly.com/videos/items/...LLE-DVD012.htm
> 
> I don't own this DVD but I have heard him play in an intimate setting and he sounded wonderful.


I had not heard of Carl's DVD. He is a great player never flashy; always serves the tune. That's a big part of old-time IMHO.

The OP might enjoy Norman Blake's mandolin DVD as well.

Here's another description of Carl's DVD:

Carl Jones Old Time Mandolin Tunes and Tips

Several tunes slowed down for learning and useful musical "tips" sprinkled in along the way. Simple concepts that make it easier to wind your way through songs and tunes. Erynn Marshall provides guitar back-up. A good addition to any mandolin enthusiasts library.

"I recorded this down in Louisiana with the assist of Wilson Sayoy and his sister Gabrielle--on cameras and production. It was just a few days after my daughter, Kelli, had married Wilson's brother, Joel Savoy, in a lovely ceremony in Eunice. They have many happy years ahead of them I am sure."

1. My Little Home In West Virginia Key of G (Ellis Hall from the Green Mountain Boys fiddled this tune so well)
2. The Georgia Waltz key of Gbeing from Macon Georgia, I was compelled to include this one!
3. Little Princess Footsteps- key of C from Missississppi  fiddler Alvis L. Massengale and the Newton County Hillbillies. One of my all time favorites.
4. Gwine Down The Valley  A happy little A tune I always enjoy playing and I think you will too.
5. Wes Muir's TuneThe Key of C and a Missouri tunealways a winning combination. The mandolin works great C as you will "see"."On the video I feel like I was successful in covering a lot of ideas in a short time (these are put into the chapter format for quick access) and Erynn and I had a bit of fun picking as well which I hope comes across."

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Pick&Grin

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## Pick&Grin

Thanks farmerjones: great advice!

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## Pick&Grin

Thanks a ton, Jacob Hagerty. What a great website, eh? I went to your YouTube page and really enjoyed your playing. I've gotta get working on that Wayfaring Stranger!

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## Pick&Grin

Thanks, Perry. Very helpful! I've got a mind to order that DVD, which I will do soon.

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## High Lonesome Valley

Here's the best way to learn.  Play along with these folks.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...C36C58B8781B9C

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Pick&Grin

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## Jim Garber

> Here's the best way to learn.  Play along with these folks.
> 
> http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...C36C58B8781B9C


Certainly all excellent musicians for sure but I would say that is only one style of old time music and most of those folks are more on  the bluegrass border with old time. Wonderful videos tho, of course.

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Pick&Grin

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## gauze

don't forget to have fun

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Pick&Grin

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## Trey Young

I've spent a lot of time listening to Mike Compton's work with John Hartford.  Specifically a show from May 30, 1997 where it's Mike, John, and I believe Darren Vincent (primarily on bass).  Lots of ideas of rhythmic accompaniment that is not a chop. Also, another vote for Carl Jones' video.

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Pick&Grin

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## Mickey King

Matt Flinner will be having an online old time music course starting in January.  http://http://www.mattflinner.com/2014/11/old-time-mandolin-curriculum/

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Pick&Grin

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## John O'Brien

I found this great instruction record from 1977 by Michael Holmes. "Mandolin Instruction: Old Time, Country, and Fiddle"

http://www.amazon.com/Mandolin-Instr.../dp/B000S57C8U

There's three versions of each title. He plays each tune slow, fast, and with accompaniment. I have learned several tunes from it so far, and listen to it while I work for familiarity. While the tunes are a century old, it's new territory for me.

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Pick&Grin

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## Gary Leonard

I got a song book for Christmas, Old Time String Band Music for Mandolin, includes a CD with about 10 songs, in multiple versions by multiple artists. 23 tracks total. I have just glanced through the music, there are 70 or so songs. First 6 pages or so have some information on the transcription method he used, and how one can fill out the melody by interpreting the song, or listening to the artists on the tracks. 

The recordings are rough, but there are some gems. I have never heard the "All Go Hungry Hash House" before, I need another listen to digest it.

http://www.amazon.com/Time-String-Ba...c+for+mandolin

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Pick&Grin

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## Ryk Loske

> I found this great instruction record from 1977 by Michael Holmes. "Mandolin Instruction: Old Time, Country, and Fiddle"
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mandolin-Instr.../dp/B000S57C8U
> 
> There's three versions of each title. He plays each tune slow, fast, and with accompaniment. I have learned several tunes from it so far, and listen to it while I work for familiarity. While the tunes are a century old, it's new territory for me.


Michael Holmes used to be the person responsible for Mandolin Camp North in Charlton, MA.  He's retired as the head but will still be there because it's his baby.  There's a pretty good dose of Old Time at the long weekend camp.  Highly recommended.
There's a discussion of it here:  http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...awesome-lineup!

Ryk

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Pick&Grin

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## pcg

Ryk, thanks for the reference to Mandolin Camp North. It's around the corner from where I visit. An obvious must-attend!

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## Jack Roberts

This is a long post.  You can ignore everything except the last line if you like.

I'm going through Ryan's Mammoth randomly.  I'm just picking tunes by closing my eyes, flipping to a page and pointing.  As Old Time really is more about listening, playing by ear, and playing in ensemble, this in not really the "old-timey" way of learning Old Time music, but there it is anyway. 

To build on the playing in ensemble skills, I figure out the guitar chords and play those into a loop pedal, play them back though an acoustic amp, and then pick up my mandolin or fiddle and play the tunes.  I've found that playing in ensemble has been hard for me, as was not something I could do myself in practice.  Now that is no longer a problem: with a loop pedal I can accompany myself at any speed I want.

Three requirements for my method are: you have to read notation (easy enough to learn), you have to be able to strum guitar chords, and you have to be able to figure out what chords belong in the melodies.  The third part takes some knowledge of how chords are constructed and named.

A great book is the "Mandolin Player's Pastime".  It has the chords, notation and mandolin tab for a large number of old-time tunes.  Go to voyagerrecords.com for this and a lot of other learning resources, including recordings that Vivian and Phil Williams have made.

Finally, go to digital.berea.edu and use their search engine "Search Audio Files in Berea Digital" using "Fiddle Tunes" at the search Genre.  The Berea College Collection is the place to hear authentic OT on the web.  You can download the tunes played by the old timers themselves.  Then pick the tunes by ear.

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Pick&Grin

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## Jim Garber

I realize that this thread goes back a few months and the OP may be long gone, however, one thing that truly should be mentioned is that the heart of old time music is playing with other musicians. Find other players of your level and play a lot. Go to festivals and jam your brains out. Go to lots of concerts and listen to the music to get it in your blood and head. Technique is important, too ,but the subtle technique of playing and fitting in with other musicians is the heart of music IMHO.

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Pick&Grin

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## diymando

Check out Caleb Klauder. Also check out the Caleb Klauder Country Band. There are tons of youtube videos and full sets. An AMAZING old time mandolin player. His band is pretty fine too! His use of double stops is something to study in itself...

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Pick&Grin

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## Pick&Grin

Absolutely Brilliant, Jack Roberts! Thanks so much for the advice and for that link. I'm going to be spending a lot of time at Berea Digital!

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## Pick&Grin

> I realize that this thread goes back a few months and the OP may be long gone, however, one thing that truly should be mentioned is that the heart of old time music is playing with other musicians. Find other players of your level and play a lot. Go to festivals and jam your brains out. Go to lots of concerts and listen to the music to get it in your blood and head. Technique is important, too ,but the subtle technique of playing and fitting in with other musicians is the heart of music IMHO.


That's some great (and fun) advice, Jim Garber. I haven't found many OT players here in my area of Iowa, but I know they're around. I'll be looking! Many thanks.

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## Pick&Grin

> Check out Caleb Klauder. Also check out the Caleb Klauder Country Band. There are tons of youtube videos and full sets.


Great stuff, diymando. Thanks so much!

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## Pick&Grin

Thanks to all for your really helpful advice. This has been just great. To add to the mix, I've found Baron Collins-Hills very helpful site, MandoLessons.com. A great list a fiddle tunes with videos, as well as technique lessons. Highly recommended, and it's all free; I'll surely be tipping him on PayPal. Any more advice and links are more than welcome. Thanks again.

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