# Music by Genre > Jazz/Blues Variants, Bossa, Choro, Klezmer >  How about western swing

## Sellars

Hi all!

I'm listening to my Bob Wills CDs, and I was wondering which western swing bands did use an (e)mando in their band?

Names,
Recomendations,
etc. 

will all be welcome in this topic!

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## peterbc

Tiny Moore played electric mandolin with Bob Wills starting in 1946... Not sure how long he was with him... That's about the extent of my knowledge of western swing!

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## AlanN

Asleep at the Wheel I think sported an e-mando. Although not strictly western swing, Dan Hicks featured the incomparable Sid Paige. They indeed swung.

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## Joel Glassman

Tiny Moore played electric mandolin with the Billy Jack Wills Band
There are 2 recordings on the Joaquin label in print.

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## John Rosett

check out randy elmore and paul glasse on the "tom morrell and the time warp tophands" cd's. i especially dig randy's playing on the more recent discs. also, doug dalton (anyone have any info on this guy?) on the "roy lanham and the whippoorwills" cd's that have recently been reissued. also, alot of the compilations of western swing will have some cool mandolin on them.
          happy hunting, john

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## mandroid

Johnny Gimble then with the Texas Playboys,along with fiddle from god, doubled on a singled strung, mandola tuned, EM-150. If there was a recording of TM and JG trading solos, it would rank right up there .

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## jugband

> Johnny Gimble (duh) with the Texas Playboys,along with fiddle from god, doubled on a singled strung, mandola tuned, EM-150. If there was a recording of TM and JG trading solos, it would rank right up there with enlightenment, bodhisattivas.


I heard that on a recording of "Milk Cow Blues" that I have.

If Bob hadn't said in plain English that it was Gimble on a mandolin, and "the smartest little instrument in the world", I never would have known it was a mandolin solo.

I wouldn't exactly say that it sucked, but it was the most un-mandolin mandolin I've ever heard.

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## Pete Martin

Randy Elmore has some solo recordings that have great electric mando. On the Wills Tiffany transcriptions, Tiny plays on a lot of stuff. Check out Paul Glasses recordings, he has some electric mando I think.

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## Coy Wylie

I have an old friend who played with the Playboys at different times over the years. I saw him at a jam yesterday and asked him this question. He confirmed what you guys have already written. The mando playing was primarily by Tiny Moore and Johnny Gimble. He said it was really a fad that Wills didn't stick with. As he remembered it, it didn't last more than about 4 years.

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## Bren

In Austin, Tx, in 1978, I sometimes used to see "Dan del Santo & his Professors of Pleasure". At that time, Dan played an electric mandolin, not so much Western Swing as Western Bop, if my memory serves me well.

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## michaellampert

You know, Dan Del Santo is the first peron that I ever saw (on Austin City Limits, I think) playing the electric mandolin.
Where is he now? He had a very fine band.

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## Richard Singleton

Danny Del Santo passed away, you can find his obit and sad story on the web, #linked to another web site that you find by searching "The Arm Brothers", his bluegrass band from the mid hudson valley region of New York, before he moved to Austin. #There are a couple of mp3's on it of the band and their great bluegrass mandolin player Tim Duran. I used to go out dancing to them in the 70's in the local bars and they were legendary around here. I once saw them as the third bill at our local state college in New Paltz when Bill Monroe played there, #(Harall , Reno and Smiley were the 2nd act) and they really warmed up the house for the stars, as their legion of local fans turned out. Many of us became bluegrass fans after hearing them and some went along with them whem they would make the trek to Bean Blossom. #Terry Likona (sp?) from Austin City Limits used to do a bluegrass radio show up here and also another show featuring Arm Bros. live before he left for Austin. Evan Stover used to play fiddle in the band and was in Fiddle Fever later with Jay Unger. He also is on Bromberg's Midnight on the Water album. I think Bob Poole, the bass player from the Arm Bros. was in the band that Danny had on the Austin City Limits appearance, I have an audio tape of it somewhere. Danny also used to play a mean Dobro. Jerry Oland was the Arm. Bros. banjo player and was terrific, and still lives around these parts.

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## Gary S

Leo Raley was an early Western Swing Electric mandolin player.He had a unique sound. He played on recordings with Cliff Brunners Texas Wanderers,Buddy Jones and others. He doesnt always solo on all the cuts, but when he does , he sounds like no one else. If you can find the Western Swing Volumes on the Old Timey label if they are still available. I have a few of them on vinyl...Gary

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## TheDrew

I think Johnny Gimble also said:
"If I don't see you in the future,
I'll see you in the pasture..." #

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## mrmando

Gimble's mandolin is not an EM-150 but an A-50 with a custom pickup, if you really wanna pick nits.

Danny Roberts played in Asleep at the Wheel. Jeff Reynolds is a D.C.-based player with a band called the Oklahoma Twisters. 

Does anyone have a photo of Dan Del Santo playing electric?

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## Django Fret

> Does anyone have a photo of Dan Del Santo playing electric?


Not sure if this is him, but this one showed up in a search...

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## Ted Eschliman

I just picked up this delicious Western Swing CD, Cactus Setup featuring vocalist Becky Kilgore and Fiddler James Mason. 





A few of the tracks feature Mason on electric mandolin. 
Kilgore is a jazz singer who hosts a jazz radio show, and I believe they are based out of the Portland, Oregon area. This album is a lot of fun and a clever, convincing "throwback" to an era when a song had simple yet profound lyrics, and a melody that can never leave your brain.
More fiddle than emando, but definitely worth a spin in your player...

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## Oren

I don't think that anyone has mentioned the Tiny Moore-Jethro Burns album "Back to Back," produced by David Grisman in the late 70's or early 80's, with Ray Brown on bass (I think), Shelley Manne (sp?) on drums, and Eldon Shamblin on rhythm guitar. I don't know if it was re-issued on CD, but you might try Grisman's Acoustic Disc. As a follow-up to that album, "Austin City Limits" had a mando-special, with the Grisman Quintet, and then Tiny, Jethro, and Johnny Gimble playing with Shamblin.

Tiny Moore put out his own album later, called "Tiny Moore Music." It had some nice western-style swing, and Merle Haggard played fiddle (that's right!) on at least one track. Eldon Shamblin played guitar again.

Maybe some of this stuff has been re-issued. Used LP's might be around, too.

Oren

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## Sellars

I just ordered "A Ride With Bob" and a live DVD from Asleep at the Wheel, and a four CD box called Doughboys Playboys and Cowboys on Proper records.

So, chime in all you western swing lovers, and keep this thread alive!

aaaaaahhhhh yyyeaaaaaaah!

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## John Rosett

"i wouldn't exactly say that it sucked, but it was the most un- mandolin mandolin i've ever heard."
                   -jugband
 wow, that's the first time i've ever heard anyone talk about johnny gimble's playing like that. 
 i think it's about the music, and the notes being played, not the particular instrument used. i haven't heard johnny or tiny ever play anything that i hadn't wished i'd played.
                 john

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## Sellars

I just received the DVD Asleep At The Wheel - We Keep On Ridin'

I am looking at it now, and man! I love it. After 3 songs no mandolin content so far, but the fiddler also plays emando, so hopefully they put in some mando!

at 10 euro (soewhat like $12) you cant miss!

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## mrmando

Here's some footage of Dan Del Santo and the Professors of Pleasure, with Dan on a Fender Mandocaster and Johnny Gimble sitting in on fiddle! I would guess this is from the Austin City Limits show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meN4E6YDgkA

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## Don Stiernberg

The Asleep at the Wheel and Leon Rausch release from 2010 "It's a Good Day" has Jason Roberts on electric mandolin on half of it's cuts. I think it's fair to say that Jason plays fiddle and mando in the Gimble style. I may have heard they are related. Certainly the influence of Johnny is celebrated as it should be and Jason does a great job of carrying forward that language. He swings hard and plays the good notes! Gibson hollow-body, four strings tuned down to mandola range I'm pretty sure. Don't miss anything this guy plays, and he's a great singer besides..

 "Tribute to the Best Damn Fiddler" by Merle Haggard on Capitol reissued by Koch is as much a must have as "For the Last Time" by Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys on United Artists. Significant doses of Tiny and Johnny on those. Tiny worked a lot with Merle Haggard, a thorough perusal of his catalog would yield many hot mandolin solo tracks. In addition to the projects already listed above, don't forget Tiny Moore Music on Kaleidescope, and the couple tracks he guested on with the David Grisman Quintet backing Stephane Grappelli live at the winery.Tiny also guested on an early Darol Anger album playing a Bird tune, and guys here at the Cafe trade CD's of live shows he did in CA, particularly "Live at Larry Blake's" I think it is.Tiffany Transcriptions, especially the sessions with Billy Jack Wills, are essential. Viva Tiny Moore!

 Johnnie's solo records have great mandolin on them too...Mandolopin', Under the X in Texas.. A force of nature, that's Johnnie Gimble on that C-G-D-A electric mandola-mandolin with the pickup handwound by Leo Fender that he carries around in a tennis racket bag! Don't miss "Fat Boy Rag", Jr. Barnard's great tune in original form with Bob, or re-done by Asleep at the Wheel. Peter Ostroushko's "Buddies of Swing" also has Johnnie on board. And visiting his site and youtube will lead you to a lot of cool stuff.
 Love you Johnnie...

 Allthough not exactly Western Swing, you'll really enjoy "Jazz From the Hills" on Bear Family. The great JETHRO BURNS plays a few types of mandolin on there, including Fender and Gibson solid bodies. Don't worry, it swings hard and also has hot fiddle and steel on it and Jeffo let his brother-in-law in on the session I guess, some guy named Atkins...

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## John Morton

> check out randy elmore and paul glasse on the "tom morrell and the time warp tophands" cd's. i especially dig randy's playing on the more recent discs. also, doug dalton (anyone have any info on this guy?) on the "roy lanham and the whippoorwills" cd's that have recently been reissued. also, alot of the compilations of western swing will have some cool mandolin on them.
>           happy hunting, john


Roy Lanham and the Whippoorwills were the house band for the Smiley Burnette radio show, I think around 1950-53.  There are 292 of them here, maybe 15 min. each:
http://otrarchive.blogspot.com/2009/...certified.html
There's a lot of awful cornpone humor, but also many fine vocal arrangements.  These transcriptions give you band instrumentals during the commercial breaks, and those feature truly spectacular guitar/mandolin duets.  Tempos 300 and up, even on many of the ballads.  Lots of contemporary (early fifties) jazz standards.

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## journeybear

Though it's nice to see Sid Page's name mentioned any old time, as far as I know he did not play emando but mandolin. It may have had a pickup on it - it has been some 38 years since I saw the original band - but I doubt it was magnetic. He was/is mostly  a fiddler anyway.

One of my old bands played a lot of western swing - guitar, fiddle, mandolin, and bass - but again, I was using piezo pickups and had an acoustic sound. We did swell up to six pieces for a while, adding a female singer and a pedal steel player (that's right, six pieces and no drummer; we were not normal). But we never did any serious recording, so this is all lost to the ages, even if some live tapes survive. My newest band - right now electric mandolin and bass - plays mostly blues and blues-rock, all original, but there are a couple of different songs to mix it up, one of which is western swing. Snappy little number and it really pops - pleasantly surprised how well it worked out.

I know this isn't exactly what was being asked, but I did want to say that western swing is indeed a viable option for mandolin, and vice versa.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Gregory Tidwell

Dave Shapireu plays emando in West of Next, a Sacramento based western swing band. NFI, but Dave is my mandolin teacher. 

Here's their website:

http://westofnext.com/

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## notneils

I realize this is an old thread, but i've recently discovered a great video on youtube of Merle Haggard leading some of the Texas Playboys in an 8 minute 24 second tour-de-force medley that aired after Bob Wills' death.  Go watch it now, it'll be the best spent >10 min of your life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbTJ8gDAvn8

It includes Tiny Moore on his 5-string Bigsby and an interesting-looking electric violin, with no f-holes and with a volume dial.  Anybody know more about that? 

There's a great dual-mando solo in "rolie polie" at about the 5:00min mark.  But i'm not sure who the other player is, anybody?

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## Pete Martin

Its Johnny Gimble.  Tiny is playing a Jay Roberts 5 string.  He used to sell those from his Music store in Sacramento and I bought one.

Thanks for that video, I hadn't seen it.

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## notneils

> Its Johnny Gimble.  Tiny is playing a Jay Roberts 5 string.  He used to sell those from his Music store in Sacramento and I bought one.
> 
> Thanks for that video, I hadn't seen it.


Thought it might  be Gimble, great to see the two of them trading licks. Any idea on the third fiddle?

There's also a whole concert up , "the last ever concert", after the death of pianist Al Stricklin, in 1986.  I will say that that '76 show is a little more on fire (and there is a substantially different line up), but there's plenty to love in this one too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jglq9...A3651F6C3183C4

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## Pete Martin

Third fiddle is probably Joe Holly as he is left handed.  I haven't seen pics of Joe so I'm not sure, but that is my guess.

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## Django Fret

> It includes Tiny Moore on his 5-string Bigsby and an interesting-looking electric violin, with no f-holes and with a volume dial.  Anybody know more about that?



I think it is a National Electric Violin, which is also called a VioLetric.  As far as I know, they all feature a single volume knob and except for the very early ones, they don't have any f-holes. I've only seen them in brown and blonde colors and never in a reddish colored one but that might be the quality of the video.  They also have a large single pick up under the bridge but it is hard to tell from that video.

Here is a picture of one.

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Charlieshafer

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## JeffD

One of the Asleep at the Wheel albums has Marty Stuart on an electric, if I am not mistaken. 

Going on more than several 12 hour work days in a row so I could be sooooooo mistaken.

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## notneils

> I think it is a National Electric Violin, which is also called a VioLetric.  As far as I know, they all feature a single volume knob and except for the very early ones, they don't have any f-holes. I've only seen them in brown and blonde colors and never in a reddish colored one but that might be the quality of the video.  They also have a large single pick up under the bridge but it is hard to tell from that video.


Thanks, paused and zoomed on that video, best i could, and i'm pretty sure you're right.  Dang, that's a hot fiddle.  I'm not sure i've ever heard another fiddle with a magnetic p/u.   I want one.  Or rather, i want my daughter to want one since she plays and i don't.  But she poo-pooed it (she's all fancy and classical these days, so not the tone she's going for).

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## Django Fret

> Thanks, paused and zoomed on that video, best i could, and i'm pretty sure you're right.  Dang, that's a hot fiddle.  I'm not sure i've ever heard another fiddle with a magnetic p/u.   I want one.  Or rather, i want my daughter to want one since she plays and i don't.  But she poo-pooed it (she's all fancy and classical these days, so not the tone she's going for).


NotNeils, I don't know if this would help convince your daughter to play one, but you might want to show her this advertisement for the National Violin.  It features some testimonials from a couple of classical players and Stuff Smith, the great swing fiddle player who was one of the first to play electric.

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Charlieshafer

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## notneils

> NotNeils, I don't know if this would help convince your daughter to play one, but you might want to show her this advertisement for the National Violin.  It features some testimonials from a couple of classical players and Stuff Smith, the great swing fiddle player who was one of the first to play electric.


Thanks, i started googling around looking for info on these instruments and i'd seen that.  I feel like Mr. Stuff might scare her right off  :Smile:     We had such a time tying to get a decent amplified sound out of her fiddle, though, that if she goes back to needing amplification she might be game to try magnetic.  

What i couldn't find googling around, though, is what these sell for (which tells me that there don't seem to be a lot of them!)  Interesting that fiddlers/violinists have largely eschewed magnetic for piezo, given how dang fussy they are!

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## Django Fret

> What i couldn't find googling around, though, is what these sell for (which tells me that there don't seem to be a lot of them!)  Interesting that fiddlers/violinists have largely eschewed magnetic for piezo, given how dang fussy they are!


I have only seen a few of them over the years and they seem to range in prices to around $750 for ones needing repairs, to around $1,500-2,000 for ones in playable condition and up to $4,000 for ones in perfect condition. Buying one brand new in 1938 would have set you back around $250 and that came with a case!

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## Shelby Eicher

Isaac Eicher plays with the Tulsa Playboys. The next show is January 10th at the Cain's Ballroom in Tulsa. February 15th in Canton, Texas. The CD is coming very soon, although I played most of the mando parts on the recording except for the solo on Fat Boy Rag.

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## Mark Seale

My chosen solution for amplified fiddle is a clip-on condensor mic (DPA 4099v.)  Its as transparent a sound as you can get on a potentially loud stage.  I run that either directly into a phantom powered board or my Acoustic Image amp.  I've used it in a variety of situations and that is the best, cleanest sound I've ever gotten.

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## notneils

> My chosen solution for amplified fiddle is a clip-on condensor mic (DPA 4099v.)  Its as transparent a sound as you can get on a potentially loud stage.  I run that either directly into a phantom powered board or my Acoustic Image amp.  I've used it in a variety of situations and that is the best, cleanest sound I've ever gotten.


Thanks.  We went for a cheaper piezo pickup (Fishman).... but then found it necessary to get a pre-amp & a better amp to compensate.  She wasn't going for much of a natural tone, which was helpful, but getting GOOD tone was still a struggle.  I will file this recommendation away for the if/when she goes back to amplification.

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## Pete Martin

My solution was this fiddle

http://www.acousticelectricstrings.c...c4strings.html

The inexpensive one was 600.  No need for special amp or preamp.  Sounds great just like it is.  My amp is my electric Mando amp, a Quilter MicroPro 8.

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## doc holiday

Every time I visit Texas, I go to see Paul Glasse.  He is a killer mandolin player.  His usual thursday night gig in Austin with the Lone Star Swing Band  also features Rick McRae (George Strait's Ace in the Hole Band)on guitar....& one of the finest anywhere, anytime.  Paul is a master of the instrument and plays an Monteleone A and a Michael Stevens (built Junior Brown's Git-Steel -  http://www.stevensguitars.com/models/mandolin/), Paul Glasse model. Always, every time, beautiful playing & beautiful tone.  There are a few youtube videos of Paul Glasse playing with Robert Bowlin...they are something special.

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## Django Fret

Here is a clip with two mandolin players performing in Al Dressen's Super Swing Revue.  Jason Roberts is listed in the description but don't know who the other player is but both sound pretty good to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OljQj3-orvE

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## Don Stiernberg

those are your two greatest e-mando monsters right there, Jason Roberts and Paul Glasse! I'm pretty sure the tune is Johnny Gimble's "Mandolopin'". Thanks for posting this!

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## Mark Seale

That's also Rick McRae on the tele taking the break after Paul.  Lots of talent on that stage!

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## notneils

I've just got myself a copy of the "Tiffany Transcriptions" set by Bob Wills & The Texas Playboys.  Hundreds of selections recorded in '47/48 to serve as "live" broadcasts on far-flung stations.  The songs are longer than the studio recordings, which were short to fit on 78s, and the playing is a bit wilder & unhinged.  

I mention this here because Tiny Moore is all over these performances on electric mando playing wild, crazy stuff.  Everybody who likes that sort of thing should get your hands on this collection!  Lots to be said for ALL the musicians, of course, the but electric strings on this collection are pretty much rock and or roll in it's earliest, primitive form.  Amazing stuff.

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