# Music by Genre > Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex >  Tune talk for Contra dances

## Jim Nollman

I'm noticing that my favorite thread on the Cafe "New fiddle tune" is looking a bit haggard lately. It's become two threads. One is about sharing new material. The other is about what to play at contra dances. 

i thought it might be worthwhile to start a new thread focused on contra dances. Let's see if it flies.

Some subjects that seem worthy of discussion:

1. what's a slow tune, what's a fast tune. what too fast. Too slow
2. How do you go about merging tunes into sets? Does that include reels with jigs and marches, or do you keep them separate? Do some tunes absolutely not work when strung together? 
3. Are you playing all Celtic, Appalachian, and Cajun tunes? Anyone playing Russian? Turkish? Tunes you composed yourself?
4. Do you think the audience even hears your inspired playing on mandolin? Or does nothing get heard but the one beat?
5. etc, etc  so forth.

At the moment, I am especially interested in adding a few slower tunes to my repertoire.  One caveat. We all know that "slow" is a relative term here, right? _Swinging on a gate_ is a perfect example. I can play it fast (116) or slow (-108), but far prefer the latter entirely for musical aesthetic reasons:: I think it loses an essential lilt when pushed. Other slow tunes I'm thinking about are _Winder Slide_ (makes me wonder how you musically define a "lament" or a "cakewalk"), _Rights of Man_ (basically a hornpipe, except it's rich melody makes me not want to play it with the usual wobble of Sailor's hornpipe). 

As we all know, there's also lots of tunes that exist beyond the edges of the conventional 16 bar precision. Who can imagine a dance being called to _Wild Rose of the Mountain_? Or _Evening Prayer Blues_? 

So let's talk contra dances.  :Smile:

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## DrEugeneStrickland

Fantastic idea as the wonderfully diverse world of fiddle music played on the mandolin need not be limited by discussions of tunes in the contra dance repertoire which must adhere to a defined amount of beats.
It would be most wonderful to have separate conversations about tunes which have ragtime and minstrel origins ,many of these have too few or too many beats to be appropriate in a contra dance setting.

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## Mike Snyder

Unfortunately, I don't play dances. I live in a dead area for contra and only have bluegrassy-type jams to play at. The players I sit  with infrequently do play dances. Hopefully they will weigh in. I love fiddle tunes or the playing of them and started the "What's your new..." thread for sharing tunes by name (and video - thanks woodwizard) to stretch the repertoire a little. I like to try a bunch and see what fits my fancy. I do know that the dancers seem to like fast tempos for the most part, with a slower tune thrown in for a breather. Never two in a row. They come to move. The session folks tend toward up-tempo, also, even on tunes that sound better played slowly, to my ears. They'll play "Crested Hens" much faster than I ever would. They even push "Winder Slide" up in tempo 'til it looses some charm. Looking foreward to the development of this thread. Thanks, Jim.

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## Jody Kruskal

Hi Jim, Mike, Doc, 

Great idea! I just played a contra dance tonight at the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender Community Center on 13th St. in Manhattan. A lively crowd as always. Ridge Kennedy was the caller and the band was Squeezology. Unique to this band, almost all the tunes we play are composed by me. We've been playing since '97 with the same musicians, fiddle, Anglo concertina, piano and bass.

Something very interesting happened tonight. Ridge said for the next dance he wanted something slow, slinky, bluesy and sexy. I picked a set of smooth jigs we've been playing for years. The piano player started us off with 4 potatoes and at the third one Ridge stopped us and said "Wait... I want it slow and sexy" So that's what he got. Real slow, somewhere around 90 or so. What fun, bluesing it up, and playing at that relaxed speed gave us room for all kinds of improv. that we had never done with that set. The dancers had a fun time of it too. After about ten times through, Ridge asked us to speed it up a bit but we kept the slinky character. This was the dance right before the last one of the evening so as an antidote we played the last dance super fast. The crowd loved the contrast and were very appreciative.

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## Mike Snyder

So many wonderful things can happen when you're able to back off the tempo a little on some tunes. The schottiskes and polkas don't necessarily go as fast as the jigs and reels. Must be nice playing orig material. You won't have anybody that it "should" be played at a given speed except the caller. Sounds like you have an innovative one.

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## Ryk Loske

Great idea for a thread!  Thank you!  What i would truly appreciate hearing are metronome numbers.  I'm in an almost constant "fight" with bandmates over tempo.  I don't think anything we do is played slowly enough.  It's as if the notes were all piece work.

Thanks,
Ryk

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## JeffD

This is a good read.

http://www.voyagerrecords.com/ardance.htm

as is this

http://www.biteyourownelbow.com/what.htm

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## Jim Nollman

Metronome numbers can be deceiving. One person's 120, is another person's 240. If you can wrap your mind around why that might be so, (is it 2/4 or 4/4?) then let's all agree with 120 as a practical benchmark.  I learned to play fiddle tunes on mandolin from a guy who insisted that we always try to play faster than we were already playing. Consequently, the 4 members of our current quartet can keep it together for brief sprints at 124 or if its just a "riff tune" (think modal) occasionally at 128. Whether we keep it together above 120, really depends on the song. Perhaps ironically, the two tunes we always rip, have lots of notes: Reel San Antoine and Whisky Before Breakfast". Maybe it's because both tunes have such strong melodies and they both work off of linear patterns. That's just a hunch. A tune that changes scale or uses odd intervals causes me big problems at excessive speed. My fingers stop working when I'm playing a semi-chromatic jig like "Little Burnt Potato". In that case, I play double stops in harmony with the fiddler. She can rip it because fiddles don't have frets and she gets to "cheat" :Wink:  I mean slide across those big intervals. 

We can sustain at 120 for an hour-long set, but by that time my fretting forearm is stiff. If we're un-amplified (not very often) I find myself constantly shaking it out and extending my hand to the ceiling after every tune. If we're amplified (more often) I just play less vigorously. 

Our current caller prefers 116 as her "speedy" limit. She even likes us to start a medley at 112, and then work up to 116. We like working with her, because after 2 years playing lots of tunes  at 120, 116 seems like a breeze, and lets us explore nuance, improvisation, harmony, counter-rhythms, etc. 

What I was expressing in this thread's  initial post, is that right now, I'm in a conversation with our caller about whether she knows any dances at about 108-110, which is about perfect tempo for some of my favorite tunes that I've never gotten to play at a contra dance, because they have a special lilt, or a push, or a syncopation, (whatever you want to call it) that makes the tune sound right. At usual contra dance speeds, these songs seem to lose their focus, their delight. 

Which makes me want to ask, Jody, what tunes were you playing so slowly? You kind of imply that it could have been ANY tune, rather than a tune that sounded especially good when slow.  

Have any of you heard the Mike Marshall/Chris Thile version of Fisher's Hornpipe? That's seems a good example of two virtuosos  pushing the tempo to its physical limits. I suppose they did it because they could. I know I'll never get there. BUT...As a guy who plays contra dances once or twice a week, I listen to a recording like that one only once,  because when the  whizziest speed is the main motive, it seems  a rather one-dimensional reason to arrange a tune for recording.  I admit, I have no interest in racing whether its horses, cars, or hornpipes. So some of you may see it a bit differently than me.

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## Jody Kruskal

> Metronome numbers can be deceiving. One person's 120, is another person's 240. If you can wrap your mind around why that might be so, (is it 2/4 or 4/4?) then let's all agree with 120 as a practical benchmark.  
> 
> Which makes me want to ask, Jody, what tunes were you playing so slowly? You kind of imply that it could have been ANY tune, rather than a tune that sounded especially good when slow.


Hi Jim,

Yes, speed is relative. I agree that 120 is a normal "fast tempo" and though my bands generally play reels there it gets wearing for us and the dancers and so we like to vary things. 110 is a normal "relaxed tempo" and 115 is a good medium tempo. We might get up to 126 and at 130 it's really too frantic, though I think we have probably gotten that fast on occasion but probably only the last time through the last dance of the evening.

I don't bring a metronome to the dance so this is what I'm figuring out at home and it's really only my best guess. Watching the dancers is key. If they are struggling then we know to play slower and we don't wait for the caller to tell us. On the other hand, if the dancers are young and experienced we will tend to play faster because fast is exciting and we are out there to give everyone a good time.

My little story about playing very slow at 90 could work for any tune I suppose, but we picked smooth jigs, (also called double jigs?) with long lines. Also saying 90 is misleading because we were playing in 6/8 time. Really it would be more accurate to say that dotted quarter notes were at 45 bpm. Since the caller wanted slinky, that slow tempo allowed us to add lots of slink. Fun! I don't remember what the dance was like but the dancers were having a great time and that's what counts.

The tunes we played were by me, Song of the Hobby Horse in G, Pumpkin Moon in Em and Rugby Road in D all published in my latest tune book titled "Cool Tunes for Hot Dances" available from me or the Button Box.

For reels, a regular "slinky  tempo" really should not go too far below about 100 or swinging gets difficult. 

What tunes? Try anything that lends itself to blue notes like Abe's Retreat, Sandy Boys, Waynesboro might work well. Not slinky at all, but Oyster River works well slow.

For slow or slinky jigs try Mug of Brown Ale, Tar Road to Sligo, Star above the Garter, Cowboy's.

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## Jim Nollman

Jody's post has me thinking about the proper nomenclature of traditional tunes. What's the difference between a double jig and a jig? Is it the speed, or the length of the melodic lines? So where would _Tobin's Jig_ (for just one example) fit in that scheme. I can't tell if the lines are very long or very short. We play it at a furious speed, where an uneducated ear might think we were playing something by Bach. 

I also get confused listening to what I think must be a rag (because the phrasing clearly reminds me of Scott Joplin), but then be  told it is a hornpipe. So is a hornpipe a rag with a specific wobble to the rhythm? Or perhaps a better example. One of the waltzes I play is _The Rosebud of Allenvale_. I recently looked it up on a celtic site, where it was described as "an air". Can someone please tell me what an "air" is? I mean, is it a mood, or a speed, because it seems to defy rhythm? That suggests to me, that another category, the "laments",must also be a mood.  

Clarification of these terms, and any others, is much appreciated.

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## Paul Kotapish

Jim, these dance rhythms are actually fairly well codified, but there is some slop in how people apply the terms. 

Here's a quick response--completely open to additions, corrections, and arguments. 

In general, an air is a slow melody--most typically a song--and sung or played freely and not intended specifically for dancing. Some airs are in waltz time (3/4), but others almost defy time signatures. Many--perhaps most--traditional Irish airs began as Gaelic songs sung in the unaccompanied _sean-nós_ style.

However, over the years the term "air" has been used to refer to all manner of tunes, so interpret with a grain of salt. 

Lament does not typically refer to any specific rhythm--it can be a free air, a waltz, or a march. It's music to commemorate a death or tragedy. The term refers to its application, not its rhythm.

Hornpipes mean different things in different places. In many parts of the U.S., a hornpipe is played pretty much the same as a hoedown or reel in 2/4 or 4/4 time. In Ireland, Scotland, and England, a hornpipe is typically a slower 2/4 piece with a pronounced dotted rhythm. "Boys of Bluehill" is a common hornpipe that sounds pretty "hornpipey" no matter who is playing it.

A strathspey is a Scottish tune type with a dotted rythmn--kind of an inverted hornpipe.

It would be unusual to play a true hornpipe or strathspey at traditional tempo at a typical contradance unless the caller specifically requested it for a particular dance. 

That said, plenty of tunes with "hornpipe" in the name ("Fisher's Hornpipe" is a classic example of a nonhornpipe "hornpipe) are often played in flat-out reel time and work perfectly well for most contras.

A schottish is in roughly the same ballpark in terms of the dotted rhythm, and there are specific tunes that go with specific dance figures. Some callers like to include a schottish as a couple dance in the course of an evening of contras.

Marches are pretty much what you'd expect, and can be used at contradances in place of reels for a more stately dance. Barn dances and flings can be similarly adapted.

The term "rag" can mean many things . . . 

Ragtime is a specific classical American piano idiom featuring a variety syncopations that can sound a bit hornpipish at times. The most familiar versions were composed by Scott Joplin, who intended them as serious recital repertoire, not popular dance music. Most ragtime follows a structure along the lines of AABBCCA (also AABBACCC, AABBACCDD), also common in French musettes and Brazilian choros.

Rags in modern parlance, on the other hand, can be derived or adapted from ragtime compositions, but are usually played in strict tempo and are appropriate for dancing. Many rags follow the typical ragtime structure(s), but can also be more straightforward blues. These work great for free couple dances and many squares or contras.

The term "jig" had a different meaning in 19C. American usage, but in contemporary usuage it typically referes to one of the major types of Irish jigs--single, double, or slip. Most tunes commonly called jigs are double-jigs in 6/8, where the phrases fill the full measure, and the pulses are on the first and fourth beats. "Tobin's Favorite" is a standard double jig. Single jigs typically have three-note phrases--typically a half note followed by a quarter note--and can feel a bit more syncopated. Think "Humpty Dumpty." "Smash the Windows" or "Off She Goes" are common single jigs. Both double jigs and single jigs work for most contras, with the double jig being the most common form.

Slip jigs are in 9/8 and are the most tricky for the novice, but once you get the three-pulse feel, they are quite natural. "Kid on the Mountain," "The Butterfly," and "An Pis Fliuch" are all common slip jigs, but it would be unusual for a caller to request one unless they are doing a specific dance such as "Strip the Willow" that requires a slip jig.

There are a bunch of other jig terms--light, treble, etc.--that are references for competitive dance styles in Irish _feis_  settings that don't necessarily apply to the music itself. 

You can also play slides--12/8 Kerry tunes--for contradancing, and it's pretty common to just play them a bit slower and pulsed to emulate double jigs.

Irish polkas--played much slower than in a trad Irish setting--also work for some dances in place of reels.

If you have more specific questions, maybe we can ferret out more specific answers.

Hope this helps.

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## JeffD

This might be of use. Taken from the recommendations of Donegal whistle player Packie Manus Byrne

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## Jim Nollman

Many thanks, Paul. You help give this 4-year-long traditional music obsession of mine a much needed set of definitions. 

I learn tunes by ear, and  had recently downloaded Kid on the Mountain, as something new for my jig repertoire. It didn't seem too difficult to figure out the lines, but every time i tried playing it without the recording in my ear, I could tell I was leaving something essential out, but couldn't figure out what it was. It was the unique unfolding of those three extra beats.  I just listened to it again, and now it's obvious. 

Also thanks for providing much needed context for a "hornpipe". I suppose that everything called a hornpipe these days was once truly syncopated. But so many recordings of hornpipes just have me scratching my head, because they have lost the "wobble". I was also confused , because some of my favorite hornpipes really seem to share the melodic lines of ragtime piano pieces more than the much simpler melodies of reels. Garfield's Hornpipe seems straight out of the Scott Joplin songbook.

I think more of these odd-timed (and syncopated) tunes are in my future, although i can't imagine ever having a venue to play them. 

I hesitate to ask more questions, for fear of hogging this thread. I really hope more performers of contra dance tunes will also chime in.

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## Jody Kruskal

Contra Categories

Thanks Paul for your great and inclusive description of dance tune meters and rhythms. Well said. So when do you play what?

When I play for a dance the caller often asks for some kind of tune. 

There is a sort of low level request like slow or fast, jig or reel or perhaps anything you like. That last one is easy. 

Sometimes the requests might be stylistic like old-time, Quebecois, New England, Irish.

Sometimes they are rhythmic suggestions like marchy, well phrased, slinky, smooth or bouncy, jig, reel, polka, rag, hornpipe, that kind of thing.

Sometimes the caller asks us to play tunes that sound like “Reel de Montreal” or some other specific tune.

What I like best is to see the dance card or have the caller tell me what and when are the distinctive figures of the dance. That is the most helpful. Some tunes support balances on the top of the A or B. Heys and gypsies often indicate a smooth tune. Down the hall in a line of 4 is good for marchy jigs or marches. Petronella turns shout out for short 2 measure phrases at that point in the dance.

As the caller teaches the dance we watch and sometimes have an Ah Ha! moment where one of us says “Donkey Riding” would be perfect for this. 

That is how we pick tunes, often on the fly but sometimes with lists that we have worked out ahead of time to match these structural dance elements to the tunes we want to play. When we do a good job of matching the tunes to the dance, then the dancers have more fun, and so do we.

How do you do pick your tunes at a dance?

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## stevenmando

Cool music and i love the idea of a concertina

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## Jim Nollman

Jody, it sounds like you are a bit more advanced than our band is,  in your personal knowledge of the linkage between tunes and dances.

When we rehearse, (or play informal unamplified dances) we usually spend some time working on a new tune. Last night, it was Sally in the Garden. We spend more time trying out new medleys. As we do more dances (and as the dances get bigger), we seem to have developed a better focus on what songs will work together for what kinds of dances. Right now, we're struggling with "Liberty". We've tried it in several different sets, but it doesn't quite feel right in any of them yet. Anyone have a good idea of a "Liberty" medley? 

In general, right now we're working on medleys that go from G to D to A. In general that lets the tune tonality develop from dark to bright.  We used to join jigs with reels, but lately, we seem to be making our sets to have one or the other. In the odd case, if there is a jig, we'll put it last in order.

We also do tunes that have their own dances. Childgrove, Petronella, Gallopede, Haste to the Wedding. I like to merge Petronella with La Bastringue, but that's another story.

We do at least 2 waltzes at a dance. We like to do 2 different waltzes at every major dance, just to prod us to keep learning. For our next dance, this saturday, we're performing Swannanoa and Josephin's. as different as two waltzes could possibly be. 

Before a dance, we send a list of our sets to the caller, and we simply let her choose the set order. I noticed that our last list included about 15 sets and several single tunes, or about 50 songs total. 50 tunes held in finger memory, played at rip-roaring speed, and yet, I absolutely regard myself to be a contra dance neophyte. 

I'm also producing a CD project that deconstructs some of these same tunes, leaning on jazz and techno styles. That's much more about composition than speed or bounce.

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## JeffD

Good communication between the band and the caller, before and during the gig is essential.

Its really cool if one of the band members is a caller, but the tradition more often than not is to book the caller and the band separately. (And there are dancers that follow a particular caller, others who follow a particular band.) So close communications and (hopefully) shared taste are important.

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## Jody Kruskal

Hi Jim,

Our approach to picking tunes and working with the caller has been developed over 25 years of playing for dances. It's not the only way to go. Just having good communication with the caller and paying attention to the dancers will lead you to your own way of figuring things out for yourselves.

That said, here is an example of how I would think about tune selection. Liberty would work well for a dance with lots of balances or petronella turns at the top of the A sections and something smoother in the B sections like heys, swings, circles or hands around. Liberty is in D. Following it with other tunes that have short phrases in the A and smoother in the B would be my choice, so... how about Glise de Sherbooke in G as the second tune and then last, Kitchen Girl in A. That last switch from G to A is quite dramatic and should make 'em yell!

Sending a list of medleys and tunes to the caller... there's a thought. Never tried that. My concern is that the caller would not know the tunes on my list well enough to make the best choice. Most of the callers I work with for contra dances want to just show up and see what happens with the crowd. When I play English Country dances, that is very different. For EC, the caller selects the dances and tunes before hand and I try to get that list at least a week before the dance so I can do my homework.

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## Jim Nollman

I've worked with callers several ways. Sometimes, they show up at a dance and work more with the crowd than with the band, and make their choices based mostly on fitting dances to the dancers' overall experience. That's OK with us. Some callers just ask us to play "SOMETHING", then choose a dance after hearing our choice. That also works OK. 

Either way, when caller and band don't communicate well,  it can lead to false starts. Another problem is that the caller can sometimes forget to end the dance after a goodly length of time. If its way too long and too fast,  the band can get tired too early in the evening. That is definitely not OK with the band.

I believe it is the band's primary job to play the tunes as well as possible, and at speed. The lack of communication by the caller can sometimes make a  dance seem unprofessional, and I can get annoyed, because people are paying money to have a good time.

I also worked with a caller once who chose a dance that the band wasn't able to match with a fitting tune. Rather than working within our repertoire, (which is hardly scant) he called his chosen dance anyway, and we ended up playing a tune that we all knew didn't match. The dancers got confused by it. That was not a fun experience for the band.

The caller we're working with right now, has as much knowledge about tunes as the band members do. She learned to be a caller after having been in her own band for some years. I very much enjoy that clear level of working together to create a fun experience for all.

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## Paul Kotapish

Getting a strong sense of what tune to play for which dance figures is a long-term commitment, and one that can be eased along by spending some rehearsal time with an experienced caller.

Depending on your local scene and on your caller's willingness to help the local musicians get better, you might coax him or her into coming to a rehearsal or two specifically to work through a program of dances and match up the planned dances with your band's repertoire. Most caller's I've met over nearly forty years of playing for dances are more than willing to spend some time with the musicians. The more experienced callers will know how to guide your choices and make specific tune suggestions, and the less experienced ones can simply try out the various dances matched up with various tunes to find the best parings.

You'll also find that callers vary wildly in terms of what they consider appropriate for specific dances. Some callers are happy to call to jigs most of the night, while other prefer nothing but reels.

Also, some of the old chestnuts are set to specific tunes, and most callers will expect a band to know some standards--"Lady of the Lake," "Hull's Victory," "Chorus Jig" (actually a reel), and so forth. The chestnuts have fallen out of favor in some regions, but a well-versed band would do well to learn the roots as well as the branches.

All of that said, most modern contradances are--in general--very adaptable to a wide variety of tunes, rhythms, and tempos, and most callers can tailor things on the fly. Square dances, on the other hand, tend to work much better with specific kinds of tunes at specific tempos, and the callers can be pretty persnickety about what works for their particular regional idiom.

When I first started playing for dances, I found it helpful to learn to call an evening's worth of squares and contras, and that provided a very personal sense of what would work and what wouldn't. We also used to host dance parties in our house--sometimes with one square or line in the living room--another in the dining room--and the band in the hallway. That way we were able to test out dances and tunes with actual people and see what worked. If you don't have a private place to host such a party, try to get into the hall a little early with some volunteers and work some things out ahead of the official start time.

I just stumbled on this research page with some good articles for contradance bands written by a bunch of experienced musicians and callers. Worth checking out:
http://biteyourownelbow.com/contramu.htm

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## Paul Kotapish

One last comment. 

As the dance itself you can spin your wheels and go crazy trying to match up the perfect tunes for each dance. Unless you are really up to the task, don't let the caller overload you with a lot of detailed info about "there's a hay-for-four in the first A and a balance a the top of the second B" or any of that stuff. 

Unless they have specific tune suggestions, just get them to tell you whether they'd prefer a jig or reel and to give you some sense of the tempo they want. Also, callers sometime use terms like "bouncy," "dreamy," "flirty," and so on to describe the kind of tune they want, but those are completely objective and mean different things to different callers and musicians.

As with most aspects of live music, using your ears--and eyes--at the dance will tell you whether or not you are on the right track. If the dancers are engaged and moving to the music--it's working, regardless of the choice.

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## Jody Kruskal

> One last comment. 
> 
> As the dance itself you can spin your wheels and go crazy trying to match up the perfect tunes for each dance. Unless you are really up to the task, don't let the caller overload you with a lot of detailed info about "there's a hay-for-four in the first A and a balance a the top of the second B" or any of that stuff. 
> 
> Unless they have specific tune suggestions, just get them to tell you whether they'd prefer a jig or reel and to give you some sense of the tempo they want. Also, callers sometime use terms like "bouncy," "dreamy," "flirty," and so on to describe the kind of tune they want, but those are completely objective and mean different things to different callers and musicians.
> 
> As with most aspects of live music, using your ears--and eyes--at the dance will tell you whether or not you are on the right track. If the dancers are engaged and moving to the music--it's working, regardless of the choice.


Hi Paul, I think you are right for the most part. Especially the part at the end about paying attention to the dancers. 

I also agree about not getting too worked up about finding the perfect match. Really, almost any tune will be fine for almost any dance. There are times when it's all we can do just to pick anything to play when the caller says "go." Still, we are all there to have fun and part of my idea of fun is the satisfaction of picking just the right medley of tunes that all work together musically and also support the dance. 

Over the years, I've noticed that when the structure of the tune is in agreement with the structure of the dance everyone has more fun. I like to pick contra tunes based on critical detailed info like... "there's a hay-for-four in the first A and a balance at the top of the second B" and all of that stuff. Sometimes other important considerations trump that level of detailed choice, but when the pick is a great match to the dance, then magic happens. 

It's not a mysterious art. The dance moves have rhythmic phrases with different durations and accents. So do the tunes. When the phrases align... bingo!

I like to see the dance card the caller is using, written out in black and white, because not all the information is relevant. There are only a few moves that I really care about matching to the tune and the rest is just filler. A glance will tell me if there is anything distinctive about the dance to bother matching. Lots of dances (and tunes) are pretty generic and it really makes little difference what you play... they all work fine.  

Some callers are surprised and pleased that I want to see the card and know more about their dance choice. I guess not too many musicians want to know all that much detail, but generally I do.

I would love to work with a caller in rehearsal as you describe, but in 30 years of contra dance playing I have never once done that. I wonder why?

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## Jody Kruskal

OK, I see that I need an example to show what I'm talking about. Let's say that the dance has a full petronella in the A1. The dancers would balance and turn, balance and turn, balance and turn, balance and turn. A good choice would be Sandy Boys, Abe's Retreat, Jaybird, Puncheon Floor, (and many more) because the phrases of these tunes do what the dancers are doing. A not so great choice would be Ships Are Sailing, Swinging on a Gate, Yellow Barber, Barrow Burn, Don Tremain, Paddy on the RR. Not that these tunes in the second list wouldn't work for the dance or because they aren't as much fun to play but because they wouldn't be as much fun to dance to for the moves the dancers are doing. 

I would look at the dance card, see the A1 petronella and that's all I really need to know. The rest of the dance might affect my choice of tune but probably not. So if the caller asked for New England chestnuts or something like that, then my pool of tunes to match the dance would be much smaller and make it much harder to find the right ones. See what I'm saying?

Then again, one fiddler I love playing with would say, "Jody, you're thinking too hard." He's right too. This is not the most important thing going on at the dance. It's just one of many details that need our attention.

So what is the most important thing for the musicians to pay attention to, in your opinion? Flying skirts? I agree!

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## Jim Nollman

We played Petronella for its eponymous dance the other night at a Grange dance. After 5 repeats we switched to La Bastringue. It seemed to work really well for all involved.

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## Jody Kruskal

Excellent!

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## Paul Kotapish

> We played Petronella for its eponymous dance the other night at a Grange dance. After 5 repeats we switched to La Bastringue. It seemed to work really well for all involved.


I'm sure it worked for Petronella, but be aware the "La Bastringue" has it's own specific dance that goes with that tune with lyrics in French that are often sung along with the first part. It's a Quebec quadrille and a popular mixer or first dance in some areas. It works well with beginners or non-dancers at weddings and parties, too.

http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc...s/labastri.htm

Here are some of the lyrics. There are many other verses, but folks usually just sing three or four.

Mademoiselle, voulez-vous danser
La bastringue, la bastringue?
Mademoiselle, voulez-vous danser?
La bastringue va commencer.

Oui Monsieur, je veux bien danser
La bastringue, la bastringue
Oui Monsieur, je veux bien danser
C'est pour vous accompagner.

Mademoiselle, vous savez danser
La bastringue, la bastringue
Mademoiselle, vous savez danser
Vous allez vous fatiguer.

Oh! Monsieur, je sais bien danser
La bastringue, la bastringue
Oh! Monsieur, je sais bien danser
Je suis prête à r'commencer!

Mademoiselle, je n'peux plus danser
La bastringue, la bastringue
Mademoiselle, je n'peux plus danser
Je vous prie de m'excuser.

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## Jody Kruskal

Yes, Paul. Right you are. I would probably not pick this tune to go with Petronella at a dance for the very reason you mention, still it is a good fit structurally. We often play Green Mountain Petronella as a second tune.  We rarely play those few tunes that go with specific dances in other contexts, but there really is no reason to save them if they work well, I suppose. Let's see there is Petronella, La Bastringue, what other dance has its own tune... Rory O'More, Chorus Jig, Hmmm... there must be a few more without getting into the English barn dances not often done at a contra, like Bleydon Races, Dashing White Sargent, Galopede, Gay Gordon's, or the singing squares etc.

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## Jim Nollman

Childsgrove? Gallopede? Haste to the Wedding? These are dances we have performed, which the caller seems to have a dance of the same name.

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## Jody Kruskal

This thread has gone dormant. Here is a question that might perk you up...

At a contra dance, you probably play a few waltzes. What are your favorites? We play many and quite a few originals, but over the years, I guess that the six waltzes we have played over and over again would have to be:

Feed Your Babies Onions (Peeler Creek)
Westphalia
Boda
Tombigbee
Planxty Fanny Powers
Midnight on the Water

You?

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## kmmando

The Cumberland Reel set as played by ourselves, just for interest ....

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## Jim Nollman

There's 4 we keep coming back to, although we occasionally play others

Midnight on the Water
Fanny Powers
Swannanoa
Josephin"s

Right now we're discussing the idea of adding some waltzes with lyrics. These include:

Kentucky Waltz
Sweet Someone
Bartender's Waltz

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## JeffD

There is another aspect to contra dance tune talk, and that is pick up bands. There are many dance venues around the country where once a week or so the band is... who ever shows up and wants to play.

Usually a strong core group and a lot of hangers, but often the wall of sound created can be really exciting. I prefer this kind of thing myself, in that it feels less like performing and more like playing. 

The tunes are often selected from somebody's huge collection of tunes and are chosen by a carefully thought out process of "oh that will sound good".

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## JeffD

> One last comment. 
> 
> As the dance itself you can spin your wheels and go crazy trying to match up the perfect tunes for each dance. Unless you are really up to the task, don't let the caller overload you with a lot of detailed info about "there's a hay-for-four in the first A and a balance a the top of the second B" or any of that stuff. 
> .


My experience has been that as long as there are the right number of beats in more or less expected places, the dancers, most of them, don't care what music you play. Experienced dancers like it when the music and the dance match up and the figures flow, but for most of them.. just don't stop playing. 

I half expect some dancer to yell out: "Hey, don't interrupt us with interesting arrangements, we're trying to dance out here."

I may be totally off base, but I suspect not way off base.

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## Rob Gerety

As an avid dancer I can't agree with this.  I have stopped going to dances like this. For me the quality of the arrangements etc. is a major draw and adds greatly to the experience.  Many of the better bands these days give a great deal of thought not only to the arrangements for individual tunes but also to the "shape" of the entire evening.

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## JeffD

> As an avid dancer I can't agree with this.  I have stopped going to dances like this. For me the quality of the arrangements etc. is a major draw and adds greatly to the experience.  Many of the better bands these days give a great deal of thought not only to the arrangements for individual tunes but also to the "shape" of the entire evening.


Perhaps I overstated my case. 

I agree that the better bands to absolutely give it a lot of thought, in fact most do to some extent. But I think that musicians tend to put together nice arrangements and things that sound great together, because of their musical sensibilities and desire to make something beautiful. I experience it more as a push from the muscians, not a pull from the dancers, musicians providing the quality because they want to, as opposed to dancers demanding the quality.

A great band will acquire a following of great dancers as well I think.

But as a percentage, how many dancers are avid experienced dancers who seek out the better bands and better callers. 

I don't know. I may be all wet.

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## Jody Kruskal

Hi Jeff,

I think I know what you mean. Dance musicians sometimes wonder if the dancers even hear what they are up to, but I think they do. They may not be able to articulate their experience of what they are hearing in words that musicians can understand but they know how to dance to it for sure. Watching the dancers and paying attention is the best thing if you want to satisfy the masses. 

Some arrangements might be overly fancy or some tunes might have too many chords for good dancing, both are pitfalls to be avoided. Thoughtful medleys of tunes that fit the dance always work if you keep in mind the needs of the dancers. We do all kinds of wild stuff and the dancers love it but we never mess with the rhythm too much and we try to keep the phrases clear and well defined so that everyone knows where they are in the dance. We are servants of the dance first and musicians second.

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## Jim Nollman

I think dancers hear us. We have worked hard to put together a good sound system no matter the venue, and we put effort into using monitors that let us hear what the audience is hearing as well as each other. 

What contra musicians call "push" seems to be much the same thing as what rock and jazz musicians call the groove. Getting into the groove is not a secondary objective for me, but as important as having my fingers play all the right notes for an entire evening. Making strong pushes in the right places is what makes the music fun, both for me as well as for the musicians I play with. It is one of things we work on as a band at rehearsal, When we do it well, there is no doubt to me that the dancers respond with more oomph.

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## Eddie Sheehy

Two fellow Cafe members and I have been asked to play at quarterly Contra/English Country Dances for High-schoolers.  They are currently using taped music.  I guess our first step is a get together with the caller and have him show us what tunes he uses for the different dances/sets and maybe work in a few "replacement" tunes that we already know for some more obscure ones...  We should have a list of tunes by next week...  Maybe y'all could make some suggestions if I publish it here?

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## JeffD

English Country Dancing is another thing entirely. I know those folks listen, carefully and with discernment, listening for the tune to match the dance, which they have been working on to match the tune etc. etc.

A lot of the English Country Dance repertoir can be found in these two books:

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## kmmando

Here's an English country dance popular in Scotland, just for interest ...

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## allenhopkins

Two interesting and (sorta) related topics: pickup bands, and arrangements.  I have put together _ad hoc_ bands on quite a few occasions, based on my knowledge of competent local musicians.  In the ongoing bands in which I work, we of course have arrangements, usually of two tunes, sometimes three.

Pickup bands can be wonderful, and are usually at least adequate if you have a "stable" of good musicians from which to draw.  But of course one can't get too ambitious about trying "arrangements" with a band that's never played together (as a whole).  KISS is the real secret hear ("keep it simple, stupid" for those who think I'm referring to the rock band).

The real questions on multi-tune arrangements include making transitions smooth, changes in texture logical, subtle, and not clashing, and non-distracting.  Key modulations, which sometimes can add energy to a dance, can also change coloration, not always for the better!  I sometimes like "alternating" arrangements, swapping back and forth between two tunes, but they have to be the _right_ tunes.

One place where major pickup action goes on is the New England Folk Festival (NEFFA) which has a traditional "festival orchestra" that's basically anyone who shows up.  Huge band, huge sound, always seems to work.  Since I'm not a dancer (don't go to dances unless I can play!), I can't speak to the experience on the floor, but from the sidelines "that trick always works," to paraphrase Rocky the Flying Squirrel.

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## Eddie Sheehy

That was great, Kevin.  I'll see if we can't get those tunes into our repertoire...

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## Jim Nollman

Most of you are probably aware that there's a rather impassioned thread going on in the Celtic area about sitting in at sessions. After reading the latest entries, it dawned on me that the method of Irish session rules relates in an odd sort of way to how contra bands learn tunes, but maybe not as much to how we perform them.  We play 20-30 Celtic tunes. To make the effort to play them well enough for a dance, someone in the band has to like the tune well enough to promote it with the rest of us. Once we all decide to learn it, we work hard to play it well enough to play it for other people. 

We simply don't feel we're ready to assign parts, experiment with embellishments, or otherwise create dynamics until, first, we can all play the tune together, without error, at speed, and in unison. Isn't that much  the same way they do it in a proper Session? Unison playing is, perhaps, the most affective musical technique for first detecting, then mastering the unique set of bounces that  every tune carries. 

Once you recognize that, It doesn't take much of a leap to realize why unison playing is such a practical way to keep the tune articulate in a session, which strives for good music while allowing anyone who walks in off the street to join in, and no matter for their playing level.

Our performances, however, don't have much in common with the Irish session in two important ways. We don't let anyone sit in, and we strive for interesting dynamics.

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## Eddie Sheehy

So here's a list of Country Dances I was given.  Are these individual tunes or sets of specific tunes or are the tunes arbitrary with in a type i.e. jigs, reels etc.

Gordon Dance (aka Gay Gordons)
Patty Cake Polka
Cumberland Square
Posties Jig
Riverside
Virginia Reel
Indian Queen
Spanish Waltz
Soldier's Joy

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## Eddie Sheehy

Well, we played a practice-dance session last night.  We played a reel medley of Mason's Apron and Macarthur Road for a Contra set and it seemed to fit nicely.  We also played two Country Dances - Posties Jig (we used Whiskey B4 Breakfast, St. Anne's, Liberty, and Golden Slippers), and Cumberland Square (I can't recall which tunes we used).  It seems to me that the word JIG in a country-dance title is misleading as the timing of the dance appears to be 4/4...  We're looking forward to putting a "Civil-War" set together for the Virginia Reel...

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## Paul Kotapish

> As an avid dancer I can't agree with this.  I have stopped going to dances like this. For me the quality of the arrangements etc. is a major draw and adds greatly to the experience.  Many of the better bands these days give a great deal of thought not only to the arrangements for individual tunes but also to the "shape" of the entire evening.


Rob,

Not sure what you mean by "dances like this." There are plenty of great, "hot" dances where the band plays in a very traditional style without a lot of elaborate arrangements, but plays so well and so in the groove that the dancers are lifted off the ground by the music. And there are plenty of bands that use every trick and flourish in the book but somehow manage to not connect with dancers at all. 

In an ideal world the evening is a three-way collaboration between the music, the dancers, and the caller, with the caller facilitating the connection between the music and the dance and then standing out of the way. I think that's why Wild Asperagus has been so popular over the years--George is part of the band, and his calling is tailored to the strengths of the band and works perfectly (nearly) every time. 

It's great when a evening program really clicks and the caller, band, and dancers are all in synch and the evening has a tangible arc of energy tension and release.

But when in doubt, groove trumps all, and a novice band would always do better playing material they can really hammer home rather than floundering around with arrangements or tunes that diminish the rhythm rather than enhancing it.

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## Jim Nollman

I think Rob is referring to jam-style dances, where anyone who wants to play is allowed to get up on stage. By the end of the evening there may be lots of players, but only half of them actually know the tunes, let alone at speed. We used to have such dances occasionally where I live. The music is barely legible, and the bounce is nonexistent. But until they know what their missing, the dancers who love to dance will endure anything to get their contra hit. 

I agree that the push, or groove, or bounce  (or whatever else you want to call it) is primary. A band that can get it going cleanly and sharply, and then keep it going through original combinations of medleys and through entire sets, may have the dancers who endured  the above type of dance begging for them to return. As a player, I very much enjoy when different tunes with different rhythms are chosen carefully enough to generate a transformation in the room. We do one medley with modal Appalachian fiddle tunes, that contain a kind of drone feel. Then we start the next medley with a tune like Morpeth Rant, and the mood in the room changes. Quite magical.

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## JeffD

I have played in contra dance bands, both gigging bands and pick up bands, which included a piano. If you have a good contra dance piano player, it seems to almost not matter what ever else the band is doing. Especially if the piano player catches the rhythm emphasis at the ends of tunes and swings well into the beginning of the next tune - my goodness many a sin is covered by the piano and the dancers always complimented us.

I would never say we didn't do a good job, or that we got sloppy because we let the piano cover it. We worked hard and sounded good, sometimes great. What I mean is that we probably sounded better than we needed to, and our arrangements were absolutely more interesting to us than to most of the dancers, and the very few times an entrance or tune entrance was awkward, the piano player covered it so that nobody could tell.

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## Jim Nollman

> If you have a good contra dance piano player, it seems almost not to matter what ever else the band is doing.





> What I mean is that we probably sounded better than we needed to



Your first statement reminds me that music is the whole thing, not just its parts. Dancers who make a point to tell us how much they like our version of song x or y are not being insincere. 

I can't get into this idea of playing "better than you need to". It's always more fun to play as good as you can play. When all the players in the band are locked into a groove, the music takes on a life of its own. Dancers respond accordingly. At least  in my experience.

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## JeffD

> I can't get into this idea of playing "better than you need to". It's always more fun to play as good as you can play. When all the players in the band are locked into a groove, the music takes on a life of its own. Dancers respond accordingly. At least  in my experience.


I agree aboslutely that it is much more fun to play well, and to play interesting and effective arrangements. And if you are meaning that the general increase in fun amongst the musicians translates into a better grooce for the dancers..  I buy that too. 

What I mean is that all but the very experienced dancers are not going to be able to articulate what it is you are doing right, and most of the dancers won't notice any particular arrangement except that "a change occured".  If you are doing great and interesting things because you enjoy it and it makes everyone play better and work harder, that is great (and its the way I like things), and it will contibute to the general energy and feel. If you are going for more challenging arrangements in the hopes that the dancers will appreciate the music, the way a stationary audience might, I think it will be lost of most of the dancers, and you could have the same effect with a less challenging arranement more enthusiastically played.


This is very different, in my experience, to what is expected by English Country Dancers, who, as a generalization, seem very very tuned into the nuances of the playing and the arrangements. The compliments we have gotten are different. A contra dancer will say something like "that was great, you guys are the best", while an English Country dancer will say, "I like the way the fiddle came in on Double Lead Through in the B part, very dramatic. It helped with the lift the dance needs at that point."


YMMV and one should always do the best one can, regardless of whether or how knowleadgably it is apprciated.

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## Jody Kruskal

oops

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## Jody Kruskal

Paul, Jeff, Jim and the rest,

I think you guys have your heads in the right place and would be happy to play any time with you based on your words alone. I absolutely agree that solid rhythm (groove, bounce or whatever you call it) trumps all and everything else is just the icing on the cake, sweet and colorful as it may be, without the foundation, there is no there there. 

To make that happen in a band is the trick. Great grove requires everyone agreeing on the rhythm and I'm not just meaning the tempo (though that's important too) but rather the internal rhythms in the groove. 

What are they, you may ask... I think that the important thing is to listen to each other and tune in. When you all do that then everyone matches and gets in sync with the swing factor. This is the amount of dottedness you put in your sound. Straight eighths at one end of the spectrum and hornpipe or even Scottish snap rhythm at the other end and everything else in the middle. If everyone is doing the same thing with the swing, regardless what it is, then the band sounds together. 

Me, I like to listen to the lead fiddler and play it the way they are playing it. They always notice and appreciate my attention and we get a thing going on where we play with these subtle nuances of phrasing that all revolve around how the swing factor is presented. Tunes are much more than a bunch of notes, though they are that at the basic level... when you and your band mates are in agreement about the rhythm and swing of those notes then the dancers will howl with pleasure... right?

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## Jim Nollman

Good ideas, Jody. 

It makes me want to comment on the special strength of a mandolin in a contra dance band. This is nothing like a bluegrass band where the mandolin's role  is either barking the rhythm or playing a wild "lead solo" off the melody. 

And its nothing like playing traditional fiddle tunes in a unison session. Whereas there's been many threads on the Cafe discussing the purist disdain for vamping or barking a mandolin while playing Celtic music, I do it all the time, to great effectiveness, at contra dances. We're certainly not Irish, nor are we traditionalists. We are a contra dance band, with all the players, except the fiddler, coming to this music after years of playing other kinds of music. I'm the only lifelong professional musician in the group.

Our quartet is comprised of an electric  piano player who loves to focus both on the "one", and on the bass end of the spectrum. She's rock steady. As Jeff as commented here, her steadiness is what the dancers need the most. Our guitar player focuses more on the general swing of each tune's rhythm. He has worked out 6 or 8 different swing rhythms, and he sticks to one of these through an entire tune. He's also steady. And never played onstage before he started playing with us. He's the husband of the fiddle player. The piano player is my wife. We call ourselves Hands Four. 

The fiddler is entirely a melody player. She's been playing this music since she was a kid, because her mother is famous contra dance fiddler, whom i believe Paul has played with.  She knows far more tunes than the rest of us. And because the melodic burden is on her, she gets first choice on the tune list we perform at a dance, in discussion with the caller.

My mandolin playing role is three fold, and the most diverse. I have to (1) know the chords, (2) the melody, and (3) enough harmony theory to improvise off the fiddler, especially during a waltz. 2 and 3 are easy to understand. 

It is my chordal rhythm playing that really gets pumped up during a contra dance. It's hard to explain music in words, but I'm basically building counter-rhythms off the piano and guitar. This counter-rhythm accentuates the bounces within each individual tune. I have no idea if this way of playing  can be regarded as "traditional", although maybe not because I find my best  analogy in the vamping guitar lines of James Brown, or African High Life. If you know those two examples, then you can imagine that I work up a sweat at a dance flailing my right hand, while my left hand's  fingers never stop moving. However, as a mandolin player, I am only occasionally playing genuine  "chords". What i am actually playing is a mixture of double stops, dampened vamping, and chords without open strings. The total effect is of a chord melody. But not so subdued as you might hear it in jazz. I play ferociously, and when I really get into it, my right arm will be stiff enough that I have to shake it out after some especially spirited  tune. The dancers love it. 

Now that we're playing regularly, and we have great monitors as well as a sound guy, I can play the same way but less ferociously, and lately I've started to add single-note melodic embellishments to the counter-rhythms, especially at the turnarounds. Great fun.

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## Jody Kruskal

Hi Jim,

So you are the oddball in the group, just like me. The player who glues all the elements together and sometimes takes it over the top. At least that is sort of how I think of it. In moving through all of those functions as you and I do, that gives us lots of freedom. As you describe, I play melody, harmony, rhythm, chords, horn section riffs and let the rest of the band take care of business. I must admit that though I do play mandolin, I never play it at dances and stick with Anglo concertina, the instrument I know best, but it seems from your description of your playing that we have something in common in our approach to the contra band. 

Where does Hands Four play?

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## Jim Nollman

Unless your band is focused on sticking to conventional rhythm, and is content to follow the purist dictates of basic unison, I would expect that most mandolin players  in a creative contra dance band would eventually experiment with enhancing the edges. Unless you're one of the world's few bona fide mandolin stars good enough to get paid well to invent your own music, I venture that playing mandolin in a contra dance band allows a devoted player to showcase more varied techniques than any other music. Not better, not more challenging, but more varied

Our band is entirely local to an island county in Puget Sound. There's not much money in contra dances  however you cut it, so remaining local (and avoiding a limited ferry boat schedule) seems realistic for us.

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## JeffD

I recently had the experience of playing Harvest Home Hornpipe into Boys of Blue Hill at a dance. Somehow we got started wwaaaayyy too fast. We sounded like the chipmunks do contra. We accused our lead fiddler of drinking too much Red Bull. But we got through it.

And the dancers absolutely loved it. They held together and got into the fling of the swing of things. It was way too fast to be "musical" in the strictest sense, but it most assuredly was dancible.

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## kmmando

For interest, Scottish style ...

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## Jim Nollman

I'm very curious if any of the contra dance players reading this thread, ever employ dynamics to advantage during a dance.

Our band is finding it tough to make any kind of dramatic changes DURING a tune, and retain the needed energy to drive the dancers. Subtracting energy is the biggest loser. By that i mean, one instrument drops out for 8 bars in an attempt to make the tune more interesting, and the dancers seem to feel like they've suddenly lost part of the floor. 

The only dynamic changes that seem to work consistently for us, is if the mandolin starts out doubling the fiddle melody, then at the second time around starts playing  a harmony part, and finally on the third repeat starts vamping the chords in some counter-rhythm. When the mandolin starts vamping against the piano and guitar rhythm, it puts the tune into overdrive. The piano can do a bit of the same, by playing only left hand bass for part of a medley, then add right hand chords as the tunes segue.

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## Jody Kruskal

> I'm very curious if any of the contra dance players reading this thread, ever employ dynamics to advantage during a dance.
> 
> Our band is finding it tough to make any kind of dramatic changes DURING a tune, and retain the needed energy to drive the dancers. Subtracting energy is the biggest loser. By that i mean, one instrument drops out for 8 bars in an attempt to make the tune more interesting, and the dancers seem to feel like they've suddenly lost part of the floor. 
> 
> The only dynamic changes that seem to work consistently for us, is if the mandolin starts out doubling the fiddle melody, then at the second time around starts playing  a harmony part, and finally on the third repeat starts vamping the chords in some counter-rhythm. When the mandolin starts vamping against the piano and guitar rhythm, it puts the tune into overdrive. The piano can do a bit of the same, by playing only left hand bass for part of a medley, then add right hand chords as the tunes segue.


Hi Jim,

You guys should work on that because we change dynamics all the time and sometimes by design. The dancers love it. As you say, you build and get to that overdrive place then where do you go from there? You are at max. energy so the only place to go is down, with the plan of building it up again. 

I'll offer you a few suggestions but remember, a lowered dynamic should not go hand in hand with a slower tempo. That would certainly be a let down, so keep the energy and tempo up and focus the energy when you get quieter.

OK. Here are a few tricks that we employ.

*Shh!* - Get everyone's eye and call this out, and everyone gets suddenly quieter in their own way at the top of the tune. The fiddler keeps playing strong but the guitar, piano and mando pull back. Remember, band dynamics equal the sum of the individual players so if the three or two rhythm players keep the same dynamic but play more sparsely with fewer notes, then the band gets quieter. Your piano player could simply play up two octaves. That would keep everything moving but your bass would drop out. Your guitar player could stop playing swing chords and become the bass with a walking bass line for instance. You on mando could join the melody or play diamonds.

*Diamonds* - This is where the rhythm players loudly play the down beat of each chord change as a single held note or chord. A few extra notes might be thrown in if the chords do not change fast enough. Often, this works best for say... four measures, then back to full playing but you have broken that over drive thing so when you all come back in you could have a fresh start for building the energy again. We often do this in the B section of a tune that has a new chord per measure and then when it comes around the second time, we play diamonds again. 

*Pedal* - like diamonds, but more dramatic. The piano plays a big chord with the pedal depressed, on the down beat and keeps the pedal down for a full two A sections. Every once in awhile they add another bass note or arpeggio to keep the drone going, or diddle around in the upper register but really it's just a drone. The guitar might play a rhythm on a single string at that drone pitch. You would join the melody. You might add more notes and bring the intensity up so that you are playing the B section at full tilt again.

My regular bands do these (and many other) tricks regularly and find them effective. The piano player has to want to do them though, as they are largely in control. There is a piano player I sometimes work with who is very strong but he refuses to do any of this stuff. I like his playing but his lack of dynamics falls flat to my ear. After a few tunes I really start to miss the excitement of the ebb and flow of band dynamics.

If you want to hear a great example of band dynamics, nifty tricks and cool arrangements, buy this CD by Grand Picnic. I know you will love it.
https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/grandpicnic

Good luck up there in Friday Harbor.

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## Jim Nollman

all good ideas, Jody. We'll try all three at our next dance and report back.

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## JeffD

We have a huge pick up band every Monday, and have been goofin around with handing the melody around, fiddles, other strings (mandolins and guitars mostly), woodwinds (flutes, recorders, whistles), brass (a french horn or sometimes a euphonium) and then ensemble again.

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## Jim Nollman

anybody here playing slip jigs at a dance? If so, which ones, and which dances go with it.

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## JeffD

I have found that slip jigs are not generally asked for by the caller. I suppose for some specific dance or specific setting, but certainly not spontaneously.

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## JeffD

Our pick up band has the bad habit of glueing tunes together in sets that are related thematically, but not musically. Farewell to Whiskey to Whiskey Before Breakfast, or Bearentanz to Dancing Bear. Huh? I call these gryphon sets, because they have put the head of one on the tail of another and hoped for the best. You always hold your breath at the transition.

The best thematic set I have heard, though I would not recommend it for dancing, is:

Behind the Bush in the Garden
Haste to the Wedding
You Married My Daughter but You Didn't
Growling Old Man Grumbling Old Woman

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## Jim Nollman

We do that sometimes, Jeff, although (like you) mostly for poetic fun, and not for practical effectiveness. The problem is, instrumental tune titles have nothing to do with inherent melody or rhythm. Plus, playing for dances, no one outside the band ever learns the names of these tunes.

Nonetheless, our fiddle player has a Mom Sally and a Dad John. So of course she has joined together the two tunes, _Sally in the Garden_ with _Johnny Don't Get Drunk_.

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## Jody Kruskal

> anybody here playing slip jigs at a dance? If so, which ones, and which dances go with it.


I love slip jigs but I've never played one at a contra dance. They are just wrong for that kind of dancing. I wrote a very nice slip waltz though. The dancers don't seem to mind changing right to left foot lead every measure. The tune is called "La Pente Glissant" and it is in my tune book "Cool Tunes for Hot Dances" http://www.cdss.org/product-details/...nces-book.html

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## Jim Nollman

If there are slip jigs, and slip waltzes, it implies that "slip" is a generic musical term, and not just a jig in 9/8 time. Is your waltz in 4.5/4 time?

How do you define "slip"?

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## JeffD

And I always thought a slip was Freud's intimate apparel.   :Smile: 

After a contra dance I sometimes fall into a spontaneous jam with the remaining musicians. We did a "mess" of slip jigs the other day. I was such a relief from the four sqaure playing. Some of the still hanging around dancers were versed in Irish Step and started dancing along, bringing some cool energy to the after dance jam. Became sort of an after dance dance.

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## Jody Kruskal

> If there are slip jigs, and slip waltzes, it implies that "slip" is a generic musical term, and not just a jig in 9/8 time. Is your waltz in 4.5/4 time?
> 
> How do you define "slip"?


The idea of a "slip waltz" came to me long after I wrote the tune and it is not generic as far as I know because I've never heard of another tune like La Pente Glissant. It's a 3/4 waltz for dancing though and nobody seems to mind that the phrases are consistently in multiples of 3 measures long at the dances where I've played it.

I wrote... "The dancers don't seem to mind changing right to left foot lead every measure." but that was incorrect in that all waltzes do that. Sorry for the confusion. The dancers actually switch lead feet from left to right every 3 measures. Each section is 12 measures long, AABB. The feet do this - 
:RLR LRL RLR     LRL RLR LRL:

A regular waltz comes in 2, 4 and 8 measure phrases. This slip waltz of mine comes in 3, 6 and 12 measure phrases. 

Gosh... words do not suffice. Here it is... enjoy!

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## Jody Kruskal

> all good ideas, Jody. We'll try all three at our next dance and report back.


So Jim, what happened with your band? Did you try the Shh, Diamonds and Pedal tricks I was telling you about on June 26? Perhaps you are all taking a break for these hot summer nights.

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## Jim Nollman

We did try your dynamic ideas at our last dance. Easy to do, and totally worthwhile. Many thanks. We seem to be on an unplanned break right now while half our quartet builds their own home.  We'll start up our once-a-month contra dance again in September. I live in a county of islands in the Salish Sea, and the possibilities for performance are limited, to say the least. Having to get on a ferry boat to 'the mainland" for any paying activity, takes away all the profits. 

I have just been informed that my next CD has been pressed. The folks at the  label tell me its now ready for mailing, promotion, and (hopefully) review writing. Want to review it? Meanwhile, the distributor has its own release date of early October. 

I'm learning new tunes all the time. Right now, rendering some rather challenging (I learn by ear)  tunes to memory, including Minnie Foster's Hornpipe, and Coaties' strathspey. In the latter, the fiddle sounds like a bird. It's uncanny.  I'm trying to figure out the best way to keep the melody sounding like a bird on mandolin, by using pull-offs in a manner I've never done before.

I'm curious how often bands in other parts of the country play contra dances. I mean is there anyone in the USA doing this full-time and professionally?

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## Jody Kruskal

> I'm curious how often bands in other parts of the country play contra dances. I mean is there anyone in the USA doing this full-time and professionally?


There may be others, but the only band I know of is Wild Asparagus
http://www.wildasparagus.com/about.html

Look at their schedule and you will see how often they play.

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## JeffD

> I'm curious how often bands in other parts of the country play contra dances. I mean is there anyone in the USA doing this full-time and professionally?


I don't understand the question. If you mean how many primarily or only contra dance bands are there, playing regularly and at a professional level and charging for their music, there must be thousands. 

If you mean bands where none of the band members need work at anything else because the band is making them enough money, I would guess hardly any.

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## JeffD

So that folks are aware: this is an excellent resource.

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## Jim Nollman

Surely, there are thousands of rock bands. Thousands of jazz bands too. Maybe a few other genres as well multiply into the thousands.  So lets ask, what percentage among all those thousands of rock bands and jazz bands and bluegrass bands are working full time? Full time means full time. No rocket science or garbage collecting day jobs, and at least middle class finances to pay the credit card. 

But thousands of contra dance bands? Hmmmmm. My original question was: what percentage of those (thousands?!?) of contra bands are working full time? So far, I'm hearing there's only one, for certain.  This subject would make an interesting chart.

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## JeffD

What you mean by full time is not clear to me. (Long night, and I perhaps have not had enough coffee.) I know what one would mean by a full time musician. But a band is a bit more complicated. A band could be playing a dance twice a month, touring within a two hours driving distance, and even giving performances at coffeehouses and selling CDs, and not be making enough money to support the band members, who are doing it more for love than money anyway. Would that be "full time"? A band could be making the Festival circuit, the regular and beloved "house band" at many a venue, and still be more of an avocation than a vocation for its members.

As I said, if you mean by full time that the band members are full time musicians, and do not have to have "day jobs" to support themselves, I would say very very few. Is playing in a contra dance band any musician's full time gig? Perhaps, but only a few, not many. Would you consider a gigging band playing dances in the summer, made up of school teachers and folks retired from other jobs, none of whom need the money, a full time contra dance band?

If you mean something even more restrictive than that, then even fewer. Maybe just one or two. 

Contradance bands out there, full time or not, primarily playing dances, (i.e. getting together only to play dances, rehurse for dances, or host a dance workshop) well I would guess at least one thousand anyway.  :Smile:  There are so many many regularly meeting contra dance venues around the country, going through a different band each time, or having a beloved house band, and perhaps a small minority of them regularly use a pick up band. Still I would guess around 1000.

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## Paul Kotapish

> My original question was: what percentage of those (thousands?!?) of contra bands are working full time? So far, I'm hearing there's only one, for certain.  This subject would make an interesting chart.


Twenty years ago there were quite a few independent musicians and probably a few dozen bands around the country whose members made their living primarily from playing contra dances, but I don't think anyone made it solely on the income from dances. Even playing five or six nights a week--which would be almost impossible to book these days--would make for a fairly paltry existence. Most contradance musicians also teach or have some sort of side line--computer consulting, writing/editing, instrument building, working in a music store, etc. And most also have a few other musical outlets, too--different kinds of dance bands, concert ensembles, coffeehouse duets, etc.

Most communities try to keep the door prices very affordable, so even at a really big dance or dance weekend or camp, the income isn't all that much. Wedding gigs can plump the bottom line, but there are only so many of those to go around. And CD sales--which used to be a significant part of the gross--especially on tour--are way down.

I still know a few musicians on the east coast and NW who depend on contradance gigs for the bulk of their livelihood, but it's a tough way to scrape the coppers together. The arc of contradance popularity definitely seems on the downswing at the moment, at least in California, and I don't know any full-time dance players around here any more. The old-time squaredance scene, on the other hand, seems to be flourishing. Not sure you could make a real living at that, either, but it definitely seems a little more energized and a lot less gray than the longways dances.

On the other hand, it's a great way to travel around and meet folks if you are young and foolish. I was able to cobble together a so-called living together playing primarily contradances back in the late '80s and through the '90s, but it was slim pickings even in my best years when I was also touring at a higher level on the festival circuits, and I certainly couldn't have relied on what any one band was earning. But I got to play dances in every state except Mississippi and Arkansas as well as Canada, Europe and even Costa Rica, met thousands of great folks, swapped tunes with a lot of fine players, and generally had a large time. I even met my wife at a contradance weekend in the wilds of Chena Hot Springs in Alaska. I had a great run, but when it came time to provide for a family, I hit the salt mines.

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## Jim Nollman

Thanks Paul. I can especially relate to your mention of how much easier it is to play full time "if young and foolish". And yes, of course, weddings are virtual treasure chests when compared to the usual gigs.

It seems to me that several folks up here in the far Pacific Northwest corner are now making a concerted effort to heat up the local contra dance scene. A few devotees recently traveled hundreds of miles to attend a workshop with Wild Asparagus.

North of Seattle, it seems that the 8 or 10 callers all seem to know one other. At a recent dance our own band played, four callers showed up, and took turns over the 2 1/2 hours we played. I can't say how the dancer's responded to this tossed salad, but I viewed it as a rare treat to compare varying styles. It was especially educational to notice that one of the callers was rigidly precise, but confused some of the beginning dancers, while another caller was over-the-top downhome and constantly interjected asides, but he taught the dancers some great moves quite quickly. 

Last week I attended a dance just to hear a band that, I had been told, were masters of the form. I was very surprised at how quiet they played, and how much the fiddler was in charge, and how closely he stuck to classically accurate versions of each melody. It made me re-appraise my own band as nearly punk by comparison, with our boogaloo rhythms, mandolin chop melodies, and a fiddler who serves her double stops like gooey cheese from a pizza.   :Disbelief:

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## JeffD

> met thousands of great folks, swapped tunes with a lot of fine players, and generally had a large time.


Woo hoo! Well worth the opportunity cost of the career track not followed.

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## Paul Kotapish

Jim--which band did you hear? For my money, the real excitement is in the bands that are going back and playing in a very traditional format. Messing around with the music is great fun and sometime works, but nothing tops the sound of great players nailing the chestnuts like they were brand new.

Jeff--I like to think that I took my retirement while I was young enough to enjoy it.

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## Jody Kruskal

I don’t know what other work the Wild Asparagus folks do but they are certainly professionals and earn fees well above the norm.

* They bring their own sound system and know how to use it so they always sound good.

* The caller plays in the band so the dances and the music always fit together.

* They play all the time and so they are well rehearsed.

* Their home dance in Western MA is very well attended by young and old, it’s a thriving scene.

* They attract a large crowd of fans and set their own terms when booking a dance.

* IMO, they are fun to dance to and have a unique sound. It’s based on traditional contra dance but they deviate from the norm in tempo, tunes, instrumentation and feel.

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## Jim Nollman

Paul, I have been told the band was put together by the Seattle fiddler, JP Wittman. They played with great traditional precision, both melodically and rhythmically. I like to hear something else beyond traditional character. I suspect from Jody's post, that a unique approach to the music helps sustain the magnetism of Wild Asparagus.  That idea of making the caller part of the band seems so obvious, yet you hardly ever see it out here. Not sure why.

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## Jim Nollman

Quite a lull on this thread. This got me thinking about what i have been learning by playing mandolin on lots of contra dances recently.

We did a gig last weekend at a local Odd Fellows Hall, advertised as a "Harvest Dance". It's good size, with a nice wooden floor. In the back corner of the hall, they set up a cider press, grinding apples and pressing juice for anyone who wanted to take some home. They set up a table against one wall  to serve up at least 30 apple pies for only about 120 people. The promoter paid us partially in pie. So much for being a "professional". Plus, the caller had to request the cider guy to refrain from turning gears while he was explaining the dances. Everyone in the hall heard the exchange, because the caller forgot to turn off his head mic. So it goes.

I love to play for a  full hall of people under 30, they dance so exuberantly, and can keep going way longer than i can play exuberantly. Sometimes the whole building seems to shake off its foundation, with dancers constantly whooping and hollering, and adding extra steps, sometimes dancing outside the lines as much as inside them.

Our own quartet is starting to jell better after a year together. We are constantly learning new tunes, building new sets, and casting aside older tunes. The piano and guitar focus entirely on rhythm, except  during a waltz, when the pianist is starting to take solos. The fiddler grew up learning this music from her famous fiddler Mom, and most of the time she's the one to bring a new tune into the group. Last week she brought in Hollow Poplar, Billy Wilson, and Morrison's Jig. After a year, it's become pretty easy for me, on mandolin, to pick up a new melody, and then deconstruct it just enough so I can complement the fiddler's own part, and provide a counter to the guitarist's on-the-beat playing.  I find  reels, especially, to be much easier to learn quickly.Let's face it, they  are usually just a riff first done on the tonic, then up to 5, then on the four-five, and back to the one. The B part is often just a harmony to the A riff often done an octave higher. i realize I'm simplifying this learning task to the point where it doesn't explain much of anything, but those of you who are continually learning new fiddle tunes, will know what i mean. 

The other thing we're doing a lot of right now, is revisiting the segues between tunes. We started one set last weekend with Hunting the Buffalo, then segued into Shoofly. It was like going to overdrive. After playing  the incredibly uplifting B part to Shoofly, we finally segued into Sandy Boys. What a letdown. Let's face it, Sandy Boys is little more than a blues riff in A mixolydian. It can sound great when played at medium speed by a fiddler able to ride the edges of the notes using odd double stops, but it just doesn't provide enough melodic calories for the dancers to lift off of.  So at rehearsal the other day, we eliminated Sandy Boys, and added Possum on the Gum stump. Except we made it first in the set, since it starts off low (in G) on the scale. Buffalo is  bit higher, and Shoofly higher still. You get the idea.

I'd love to have some of you other contra dance players chime in on some of your own inspired sets of three tunes, and what specifically, makes them push well against one another.

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## Jim Nollman

Let's see if i have any luck revitalizing this thread about playing mandolin for contra dances. 

Over the summer, I've been enjoying playing a weekly dance without the band using any electricity. We were playing in a 150 year old hall.  The band included piano, fiddle, guitar, and mandolin. 

Doing it this way has made me think a lot about the long tradition of these dances, and the fact that until no more than 60 or 70 years ago, no one playing these dances used power. I'm hardly a traditionalist, but I have to say that the feel and the mood of these all-acoustic dances is profound. That is, so long as the dancers can hear both the music and the caller.  

Our usual caller, 82 years old and still going strong, used a head mike driving a single speaker set up on a high pole in one corner. Another caller the band hired for a big outdoor wedding, possessed the  rare vocal quality that makes me think of Aretha. Her natural voice has such an edge that it  cuts through everything else without making her even raise her voice. Because she's also masterful at teaching a dance very quickly, she's definitely our future first call. 

One other thing I like about an acoustic dance. The dancers do pay better attention to the caller, and so they were much quieter while the dance was being taught. 

I was having the hardest time being heard while playing my BRW oval hole. Most people would call it a loud mandolin. But I finally figured out that it wasn't so much an issue of raw volume, but of a specific sound quality i hadn't paid enough attention to, and which bluegrass players refer to as  "cutting power". I'd define it as the mysterious capability of one particular mandolin design to optimally focus and project the high harmonics through ff holes. In other words, i was ready to buy myself an F5. 

So I bought one. It's been a revelation, and has changed the way I play my own parts in these un-amplified dances. First of all, the instrument is a good one, (although emphatically not a famous one), but still  on that level of those not-so-common F5s that make it easy to hear every note, high or low, without having to bang on strings. I now understand what "tubbiness" means, and why i don't want it when playing a dance in  a band, without electricity. I can also hear the difference between the cutting power of a good F5 and just about any FF-hole A shape you want to put up against it. Maybe not on a recording, but definitely in a dance hall. The F5 capability to  project high harmonics louder far across the room then in my own ear, definitely took some getting use to. Once i got used to it, i realized that it lets me be heard clearly by the dancers no matter how loud the band gets, how boomy the room is, or even how clear it sounds to me. Because i no longer have to dig in so much while playing all those 16th note melodies at the furious pace of a contra dance, my playing is more in control and I can be much more playful in my note choice and rhythm choice over the course of an entire evening.

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## JeffD

Contra dance band success strategies vary. There is one local band that was getting booked all over the place, to the point where they were on the verge of burn out - and the reason they were so popular is, beyond being very good musicians and practicing alot, they had a fare amount of klezmer and eastern european tunes and influence in their sets. Really great stuff, and everyone loved them. 

And there are a few bands that have made a name for themselves by having unique instrumentation. Oboe or lower brass or something.

Another band I know, decent musicians all, and they get lots of gigs because of the agressive networking and marketing abilities of one of their members. I don't know that their playing was especially memorable, but they have become a household name.

Competent musicians that play well together and are smooth and practiced, that seems to be the easy part. Distinguishing yourself through some uniqueness in playing or instrumentation, or having an excellent caller on board, or flyers on every post within 50 miles of here, these seem to get you gigs.

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## Jim Nollman

I have never heard a contra dance band with an oboe. It sounds wonderful. 

Burn out is an issue for any band. You put the time in, and occasionally something clicks within the music or the group chemistry. Then you want the whole world to hear your music. Maybe go on the road awhile. One day you realize that what you are doing is less then the dream. The road lifestyle is painful. Your mutual commitment has become an agreement to live in poverty. Or you hit you a musical ceiling. Someone demands something new, which the others can't do.

Our band plays at least one dance a week. Sometimes two. You do that for years and you get both skillful and comfortable within the music. Getting more and more skillful on mandolin is bottom line for me. I also love it that 4 unplugged acoustic players can get a full house of dancers to levitate a building.  

I live in a county of islands in Puget Sound accessed by ferry. The 3 big  islands have one contra dance band apiece. Each island band occasionally plays on one of the other islands. Only rarely does one of the bands play on the mainland. Each of our bands could probably hold its own anywhere in the country. I mention this, to describe the unique context of our island scene.   :Mandosmiley:

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## Jody Kruskal

Hi There Jim, Jeff and all.

A while back we were having an interesting conversation about contra dance tune medleys. I just came across this in depth discussion including many well known musicians and callers. All the quotes are from 1990 so this is a rather antique document. Things have changed in the past 23 years, but less than you might think. The book is called...

Contra Dance Choreography
A REFLECTION OF SOCIAL CHANGE
by Mary McNab Dart
http://www.cdss.org/elibrary/dart/co...ce_event_2.htm

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## JeffD

I think I have seen that book. I am not sure. Very interesting.  Oh, I see. CDSS, yes that is where I have seen it.

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## Jim Nollman

Yes, I've seen it. Interesting stuff. Are you still playing dances, Jody? 

We have an unusual gig (for us) this Sunday. We're playing unamplified, onstage, in a pub, for an audience sitting in chairs, for St Paddy's day. The pub has requested that we forego their sound system to make it sound more "authentic". Go figure. We will play slightly slower than contra dance speed, and focus our hour set on jigs. We'll also play one or two old-time tunes since we all like stretching out on modal breakdowns  starting slow, getting faster   as much as the unison and note-y Irish tunes.

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## JeffD

> We have an unusual gig (for us) this Sunday. We're playing unamplified, onstage, in a pub, for an audience sitting in chairs, for St Paddy's day..


that sounds like a lot of fun.

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## Jim Nollman

wish you could be there Jeff, to sit in.

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## Jody Kruskal

Hey Jim,

Yes, I'm still playing dances right and left.

I hope your gig went well. Did they all sit and listen silently? That would not be too authentic now would it?

Last Sunday I had a St. Pat's / 40th birthday solo gig on concertina. The birthday boy, his wife and child and mother-in-law were all from Ireland. I think most of the other folks there were too, at least back a generation or two. What a scene. 

It was in a dark back room of a dive bar here in Brooklyn. There were about 30 folks there, 10 of them little girls under 5. No one could tell me why all the kids were girls. Open tab and some great draft at the bar up front. They all did quite a bit of dancing as well as nonstop talking and they clapped after every tune. Whenever they started in dancing, I would switch to polkas... which seemed to fit what they were doing. The mother-in-law made a point of coming over at the end to tell me that it would have been a waste not to dance to such good music. She grew up in Clare and hearing all those tunes made her nostalgic.

It turns out that the birthday dad was a tattoo artist, which explained why most of the men had full tattoos up their arms. If the women had tattoos too, they were not showing, so I don't know.

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## Jim Nollman

My gig was just OK. I don't do well performing with lots of players with varying levels of proficiency. All in wobbly unison. Yes, I do understand that's the way the Irish promote it. But to do it more than once a year, I'll need to learn how to leave my ears at home.  

The only time anyone got up to dance is when I formed an impromptu trio  with a talented 14 year old fiddler and a young 82 year old concertina player, to do Ashokan Farewell. Certainly not  Irish, but it is a spirited waltz. Jay Unger is visiting next month, so it seemed an apt choice.

One of our near locals, Clyde Curley, played a contra dance here last weekend on fiddle with piano and banjo. He adds a wonderful lilt to the canon.

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## David Horovitz

I'm enjoying learning lots of new (to me) tunes from the Portland Collection volumes 1 & 2 that Clyde Curley and Susan Songer published. They've also put out some accompanying CDs of them playing a selection of tunes from each book. Great stuff. I've never been to a contra dance but am tempted to check it out. I know there are dances almost every month here in SF Bay Area. 

It's interesting to hear how the mandolin fits in a contra dance band. Seems to be part rhythm playing, part melody playing and part rhythmic melody playing!

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## Jody Kruskal

> I'm enjoying learning lots of new (to me) tunes from the Portland Collection volumes 1 & 2 that Clyde Curley and Susan Songer published. They've also put out some accompanying CDs of them playing a selection of tunes from each book. Great stuff. I've never been to a contra dance but am tempted to check it out. I know there are dances almost every month here in SF Bay Area. 
> 
> It's interesting to hear how the mandolin fits in a contra dance band. Seems to be part rhythm playing, part melody playing and part rhythmic melody playing!


Hi David,

You should go. Not only will dancing make you a better mandolin player, it's fun! 

My band Grand Picnic https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/grandpicnic is playing in NYC again this May 11 at http://cdny.org/ We are a two fiddle band and one of the fiddlers, Sam Zygmuntowicz often brings his mandolin for added color. While the mando is not essential to the contra sound it adds a great deal. Sam's playing certainly does the things you are talking about. Instead of the two fiddles blending, fiddle and mandolin create a layered texture that is had to beat and a sparkle that brightens up the room.

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## Paul Kotapish

> I'm enjoying learning lots of new (to me) tunes from the Portland Collection volumes 1 & 2 that Clyde Curley and Susan Songer published. They've also put out some accompanying CDs of them playing a selection of tunes from each book. Great stuff. I've never been to a contra dance but am tempted to check it out. I know there are dances almost every month here in SF Bay Area.


Hey David,

There are dances every week--often several per week--in the greater Bay Area. I don't play for them much anymore, but I played hundreds of them over the past three decades. Playing for dances is fun, challenging, physically demanding, and sometimes frustrating, but it's a great way to build your chops and stamina, and the tunes are great.

It's a bit of a schlep from San Jose, but the Berkeley dances on alternate Wednesdays have an open band with a generally welcoming policy to all comers. Basic session courtesy applies--play if you know the tune, listen carefully and play softly if you are just learning it, stay quiet and just listen if you have no idea what's going on.

http://www.bacds.org/series/contra/berkeley_wed/

Here is a roster of all the BACDS dances: http://www.bacds.org/series/contra/

The Palo Alto dance is probably the nearest one, but the other dances generally do not have an open-band policy.

There are also dances happening in Hayward: http://www.haywardcontradance.org/

And there's a fun dance scene down in Felton and in Santa Cruz: http://santacruzdance.org/calendar.php

And further afield, there's a very lively scene in Marin and Sonoma: http://www.nbcds.org/

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## Jim Nollman

Paul Says:

Playing for dances is fun, challenging, physically demanding, and sometimes frustrating, but it's a great way to build your chops and stamina, and the tunes are great.
Yes i agree wholeheartedly with all of those adjectives. One thing that has always struck me while playing the contra dance scene, is how little respect this music gets from the so-called serious musicians in my neck of the woods. Certainly these are not the most harmonically challenging tunes on the block. But there's no other music I have ever played that drives at such a speed, and for such a length of time. Getting to that speed takes practice, and I find i quickly lose it if i don't perform for even a few months.,

The open sessions are often frustrating to me. I stopped attending a popular session where i live, because as the population of players grew and grew, I found myself less and less able to hear what i was doing. As the band hit a critical mass, the sound system disappeared. I opted out with the excuse that: "I'm mainly in it for the music. When I can't hear myself play the music, what's the point". 

Despite my excuse,  I am well  aware of the point for all those folks who are so much deeper into the aesthetic than me. The expression of community is what it is all about. 

 I had no interest in raining on this local event that continues to make both players and dancers so happy. I show up at this weekly dance about once every six weeks.  And always relish the incredible rush playing great tunes like Reel St Antoine and Green Willis at 115 bpm.

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## homejame

Ugh Sunday morning..  Here in England the caller  will request - 32 bar jigs - or 48 bar ... hpipes etc etc.  so its up to the band to have the required reportoire  to hand - normally with the dots. A lot of stuff will be traditional to the area - in England this is very varied - we're fortunate enough in the n'east to have huge local collections - James Hill for one..  who wrote some cracking good hornpipes, reels etc. there is a very strong Northumbrian pipers society that has pushed out various collections . One thing that will vary with your local is the speed .Newcastle way its fast  the midlands a little less racy - Southern speed is sort of slow..coupled with the fact that a few years ago there was a fashion for hopstep bands with sometimes a trombone giving a nice bottom end- almost New Orelans feel to a dance. On the other hand we had Robin Dun to the dance club the other week( Newcastle ish) and he really wasn't taking any prisoners.. a case of dance two sit one out for me lolol

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## JeffD

> A lot of stuff will be traditional to the area - in England this is very varied - we're fortunate enough in the n'east to have huge local collections - James Hill for one..  who wrote some cracking good hornpipes, reels etc.


Some cracking good hornpipes indeed. I picked up a copy of Pete Loud's Collection and he has over 25 James Hill tunes in there. Most everyone is wonderful.

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