# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Martin two point

## Grindstaff

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWAX:I

I wonder what this would sound like.  Anyone played one?

I have nothing to do with the listing.

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## allenhopkins

Never saw a Martin looked *anything* like that.  The body shape is wrong, the headstock is wrong, the bridge is wrong, the pickguard is wrong, the finish is wrong, the inlays are wrong.  The tailpiece does look somewhat like the "cloud" that Martin used.  Also: Martin mandolins had model and serial numbers; this one doesn't.  The "customized by D'Angelico" hypothesis of the seller also is extremely dubious.  If someone picked up the $2K "buy it now" (I see that "bidding has ended"), I think they got hosed.  Someone may have put the C F Martin stamp on the backstrip, but I'd bet it wasn't anyone working for C F Martin.

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## thunderfingers

Looks like a custom 1930 2-30 martin. They only made around 65 of these mandolins from 1935-1946. They sound sweet however not real strong. Sure is fine looking.

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## allenhopkins

Well, the 2-30 had f-holes, not an oval hole.  It didn't have the obvious pickguard screws that this one has, and it didn't have block inlays on the fretboard.  It didn't have an adjustable bridge (though of course that could be a later addition).  The picture in the Longworth book also doesn't show a pointed pickguard like the one on eBay; it also shows a darker finish.  Also, the 2-30 had the "Martin" decal on the headstock.

There is mention of a Style 30 mandolin, like the 2-30 but with an oval hole.  Only two were made, one in 1932 and one in 1941.  And I did make a mistake when I said Martins had model and serial numbers; serial numbers only, stamped into the center backstrip inside the instrument.  My Style A is 8560 (1920).  So do we have one of the two Style 30's, with non-Martin inlays, pickguard, finish, and no serial number?  Or do we have something else?

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## Jim Garber

I know that mandolin and have played it tho it was years ago. I was at the auction of my old teacher, Roy Smeck, and this mandolin was brought it right before the auction started. It was not part of the estate but the owner said that Roy had owned it at one time, hence the RS. I think the story was that it was originally a Martin but was customized. I don't remember being too impressed with it. I can't recall what it sold for tho I prob have the records somewhere, maybe in the case of the lapsteel I bought at that auction.

In any case, here a few links to style 20 mandolins:
Elderly Style 20 

Mandozine from Tone Poems

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## barney 59

I have played 8 of the 63 2-30's and 3 of those are for sale right now. In the 4G range. One of them Dawg has consigned to a music store. All of them had a sweet tone but didn't project very well. I almost bought one some years ago but while I slept on it Bob Dylan bought it -or so the story goes. The archtop Martin guitars were kind of the same way --beautifully made but didn't deliver. The jazz players that they were marketed towards just didn't bite. The guitars are sought after for flat top conversions. The 2-20 is very much the same but not fully bound like the 2-30. Easier to find and about half the cost as they made over 200 of them. I always thought the the 2-30 would become valuable because they look so good and so few were made but they haven't taken off yet.   I've seen the one on ebay listed before. The Roy Smeck (RS) defacing makes it a little more interesting---If Martin custom made an instrument like that they may also have records.

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## brunello97

Here is a Martin I have in my files as 1932 2-30 (but I am notorious for mistyping things.)  Allen, might this be one of the ones you are referring to?

Mick

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## allenhopkins

Longworth's book says the Style 2-30 had f-holes, and the "two-of" Style 30 was the same instrument with an oval hole.  He did not have a picture of the Style 30, which would be a real _rara avis._  The finish on the one you picture, the pickguard shape, fretboard inlays and Martin decal look a lot more like a "normal" Martin mandolin than the eBay one -- but if, as Jim G states, Smeck had Martin or D'Angelico either build a custom instrument, or customize an existing Style 30 or 2-30, could have ended up with what's currently for sale.  I've not played one of the Martin carved-tops -- as stated above, they weren't musically successful and weren't in the Martin catalog for too long.  What throws me off is the lack of a serial number; Martin mandolins generally had them.  They're not easy to see, since they're stamped into the backstrip and may not be darkened as those of Martin guitars tend to be. 

If the pic in your files is of a Style 30, and if Longworth is right (and he was working from Martin factory records, which are pretty accurate), it's one of two of which Martin has a record.  Is the eBay one the customized other one?  Or is it one made for Smeck, with no serial number?  Or is it a D'Angelico top on a Martin 2-30 body?

I apologize for my initial reaction of shouting "fake."  I had never seen anything like that blonde mandolin -- block inlays, screwed-on pickguard, etc. -- and didn't think it could be a Martin.  But it may well be some unique hybrid.

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## bigbike

The funny thing is that when I followed the link, I endedup on ebay with some Martin guitar that someone is trying to get $6K for a fancy 00.  But of course it DOES have a Roy Rogers pick guard! :Mandosmiley:

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## Capt. E

Here's the usual 2-30 on Ebay right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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## brunello97

> Here's the usual 2-30 on Ebay right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT



I've always liked the look of these, but have never played one.  It is a pity that the reviews have been so lukewarm.  The price on this one is creeping up into A, A-1 range, probably where it should be.  Too bad Martin didn't invest the resources to develop a great archtop and sustain production.

Mick

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## barney 59

> I've always liked the look of these, but have never played one.  It is a pity that the reviews have been so lukewarm.  The price on this one is creeping up into A, A-1 range, probably where it should be.  Too bad Martin didn't invest the resources to develop a great archtop and sustain production.
> 
> Mick


Martin,being Martin decided to finally produce a mandolin to compete with the F5. The only problem was that they began making these at about the time the mandolin craze was ending. They missed the market. Martin was always slow to move,they didn't produce guitars to accept steel strings until 1927, more than a decade behind the competition. If they were selling them maybe they would have evolved like the F models did.

Don't get me wrong 2-30's are very nice mandolins. But compared to an F-5 from that period... well......for types of music other than bluegrass  like classical or new age/ whatever  a 2-30 might be the sound your looking for.I bet they sound great through a good acoustic pickup. I always wanted one but everytime I've found one there is  some greater power that prevents me from getting it. I stumbled on one that was a good price the same week that i had to put a down payment on my house, things like that. I know where there are 3 right now besides the ebay one but I am temporarily(I hope) poor.

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## zookster

The Martin carved tops are good mandolins, and like other brands, they run the gamut in sound quality depending on the particular instrument.  Martin made a lot of them the first year,  then production really drops off for the remaining  period of construction. I think 1942 was the last year, with a special run in the 50s of a dozen or so Style 20.  These carry an "S" on the serial  stamp.

  I own a '29 Style 20 (first year) which is a good, all around mandolin.  It is particularly good for old time, with a nice cutting edge to the sound. They have a completely different sound from the Gibsons, sweeter and not as loud, although mine has adequate volume.   The 13" scale is the main drawback.  There is a very pleasant V shape to the neck,  which has no adj. rod but is still straight.

  I've played three style 2-20s, and not been impressed at all.  A clear lack of volume and bite. Sure, they would probably be alright with a good pick up, but overall  something lacking.  

  I've often wondered, with the quality of the carving, who at the factory was making these mandolins.  Its pro all the way.  Did they hire somone specifically with the skills needed, or promote from in-house?  Maybe a particularly good neck carver was used.  Until the foray into the Style 15 and 20, and a few years later with the F series, Martin didn't do any kind of carved bodies.  

  If you can find a good one they are a sleeper on the market.

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## doghouse

[/QUOTE]If the pic in your files is of a Style 30, and if Longworth is right (and he was working from Martin factory records, which are pretty accurate), it's one of two of which Martin has a record.  Is the eBay one the customized other one?  Or is it one made for Smeck, with no serial number?  Or is it a D'Angelico top on a Martin 2-30 body?

I apologize for my initial reaction of shouting "fake."  I had never seen anything like that blonde mandolin -- block inlays, screwed-on pickguard, etc. -- and didn't think it could be a Martin.  But it may well be some unique hybrid.[/QUOTE]

Apology accepted.  Hello gentleman, I am brand new to the forum and I am also the guy who purchased the assumed customized Martin 30 mandolin.  As many of you know and have probably experienced with on occasion, painful consequence, there is a risk when buying any instrument via ebay let alone one with an uncertain past and modifications and vague descriptions.  I have definitely taken a risk here but time will tell if my instincts were on the right track. Because Martin only made two of these M 30s , it made sense to me that because of the binding, the custom finish and stylings and extended fingerboard and beautiful workmanship, it was most likely one of the two M 30's ever made.  Assuming this was correct, I also ventured that it was either made custom for a person of renown (ie. Roy Smeck) by Martin or modified after the fact by a competent luthier who may have known such and individual (ie. D'Anglelico).  I am assuming also that I will find a serial no. (though with only two ever made, I am assuming Martin can lend information either way) and I plan to contact Martin once the Mandolin is in my hands (as it is currently in route).  I think that the case itself is worth $500 minimum.

This should be fun and entertaining and we shall see what kind of egg the goose has laid, be it a beautifully crafted mandolin to make music with or a golden treasure.  Time will tell as I plan to establish provenance wherever I can find it.  So if any of you gentleman could help me in this regard it would be really great.  I appreciate all of the expertise and humor and camaraderie this forum has to offer.

Your newest member,  John Hill  

ps.  I am also a trained violin maker and was musing about making copies of this instrument if the sound is as good as other model 20's ovals that previous owners have described.  Again time will soon tell and I will keep you posted.

www.hillviolin.com

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## Jim Garber

John: since we can't see the original pics any more, how about posting some of your new acquisition. As I recall it was modified by whoever owned it. There might have even been some rumor that D'Angelico had done the work, tho it also could have been merely something the owner decided with no basis on fact.

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## doghouse

Hi Jim, I will post some pics as soon as I get it as it is still in en-route..

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## doghouse

Also Jim, I just realized that in the previous reply you stated that you have had some first hand knowledge of this instrument.  That is really great and I would be very interested in knowing more of that story if you may uncover any more details ie.) the purchase price at auction, who may have purchased it etc. and very curious about who may have done the custom work.  I am sure the detail in the custom craftsmanship here will lend credence in some direction (in one way or the other).  I will definitely post some detailed pics and share with you what I ascertain from Martin after I hopefully find a serial no.   John

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## Jim Garber

Here are the pics that I have.

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## doghouse

Great Jim, thats the one..

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## doghouse

Hello.  I am dropping in to give anyone who may be interested an update on the possible rare Martin model 30 mandolin I bought on ebay..  I have learned a lot in the last few days about this instrument.  First, it arrived with top cracks and slight deformation around the block area.  I found a serial no. 14320 and called Dick Boak at Martin.  It is definitely a Martin though a Model 20 made in 1929, the first year of this model.  The blonde finish is factory (only a few).  The rather garish custom ornamentation was supposedly done by a student of D'Angelico for Roy Smeck.  He did supposedly own this at one time according to the previous owner and as Jim mentioned.  I negotiated a return of $1,000 from the seller for the undisclosed cracks and a few other undisclosed minor rib cracks and filled holes. So for a $950 purchase I think I did okay.  

I am undertaking the restoration back to it's original design.  So far, I have removed the customized fingerboard (to be replaced with a factory looking plain ebony with dots), removed the sloppily glued and too thick sound hole binding and cleaned up the sound hole and removed the top.  

The inside had some, weekend warrior like attempts, of stabilizing the top cracks and rib cracks and trying to glue a loose bass bar, all without removing the top.  I will give that guy a B for effort.  There is excess glue (of some sort - not hide glue) to clean up, a top brace to replace, the afore mentioned cracks to glue and cleat.

All in all not too bad.  I did play the instrument before I broke it down and it sounded great so I look forward to hearing it after I get it cleaned up and restored with a new bass bar and minus heavy glue and really heavy former repair blocks etc..

Here is a pic of this mandolin in it's hey day..

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## allenhopkins

Congratulations for bargaining with the seller for a more realistic price, doing the detective work to establish the instrument's provenance, and for undertaking its restoration.  I hope you'll save the "blinged" fingerboard as well, as a footnote to #14320's history.

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## Jim Garber

I suppose it ti possible that Roy Smeck owned that one, tho the reality is that he rarely played mandolin and when I knew him he had a Harmony Monterrey and that was prob it for the mandolins. As I mentioned, that mandolin was brought in at the tailend of Roy's estate auction and it was not part of the estate.

No doubt the work you are doing on it will improve the sound and playability. I don't remember being all that impressed with it at the time. Those oval carved Martins can be nice instruments and it sounds like you paid a fair price once you got the rebate.

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## doghouse

Thanks Allen, I will post some pics after I am finished working on it.  Always a nail biter when buying musical instruments over ebay but all things considered, I am happy and having fun restoring this instrument.  The back and it's arching's are especially beautiful on this model and as a violin maker, I am usually not impressed by production carved guitar / mandolin arching's. This model is a beautifully made production instrument.  

ps.  I thrashed the old fingerboard in favor of the spruce on the main body where it was glued.  Shaved it down bit by bit till I got to the delicate spruce surface. I did take more pics before I started though..

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## doghouse

Yes Jim and Allen, I was definitely happy with the rebate.. without it I was planning to send it back or negotiate a settlement through ebay buyer protection for the non-disclosure.  I am happy the people selling it were reasonable, realistic (after I sent them some detailed photos) and fair to deal with.  Good people and it could have been a real pain in the tushka..

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## doghouse

Hello again.  I need some feedback on what you guys would suggest regarding tuners for my model 20 two point oval hole martin mandolin instrument.  The machines that came with the instrument when I purchased it on ebay could be original for the instrument, I am not sure.  I think they are martin tuners but are nickel instead of the pearl celluloid as shown in vintage pictures and the bass plates are visible from the front which I seriously doubt is original.

I am probably going to replace them as would like a more refined tuner and yet hopefully retain some of the vintage look without sacrificing the quality.  

What would you suggest?  Any advice here would be appreciated.

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## doghouse

Hello Guys, just wanted to share some pics of the Martin Model 20 1929 I finished restoring.  I pulled the top to rebuild it at the block area in which there was a horizontal block crack, laminated some rib cracks and replaced a lateral tone bar with a nice, scalloped x-brace.  Also, as you can see from the old photos, I replaced the fingerboard, nut, re-laminated the head stock and custom made the pick guard from 1/8th inch celluloid from Axiom.  The tail piece also from Axiom. I am happy to say it plays very well and sounds sweet with resonance and plenty of volume. A lot of work but also a great learning experience for a violin maker venturing into a mandolin restoration.  Thanks for all of your initial help.  It has been fun.  

John

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## Ronny

Amazing mando, wonderful work...

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## F-2 Dave

Looks great John. That's a beautiful mandolin.

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## mando_dan

I wish I had something more to say than nice work and beautiful!  So nice work and beautiful.  Your skills are very apparent in the loving care that went into this restoration project.  Best of luck in future projects.

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## Toycona

Great job!

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## Jim Garber

Nice work! Did you make the bridge for that? Any pics of that?

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## doghouse

Hello Jim, 

I used the bridge that came with the instrument when I initially purchased it off of ebay a few months ago..  not an original and you can get the identical from Stew Mac I believe.  

By the way, I have the old Waverly tuners that were on it and the original tailpiece if any one is interested.  I chose a modern tail piece for the benefit of the mandolin (much more stable and holes were better placed in the block area).  For those not familiar with, I highly recommend the James tailpiece I got from Axiom.  Works very well, is strong, quite stable and handsome for the instrument I think.  As you can see, they will also custom engrave for you..

Thanks to all for the Kudos..

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## doghouse

Hello all, I was hoping to get some help here regarding the best resource for a making a custom cutter for my new mandolin project..  I am building a copy (though an enlargement to 14" Scale length) of the Martin Model 20 I just finished restoring. I am used to mortising violin necks by hand but because of the uniqueness of the mandolin design, I could use some pointers on the best way to set up whatever kind of jigs to do the job.  I am sure there is more than one approach.  So the basic application for a Model A Gibson would closely match the Model 20 Martin.  Any of you builders who would care to give me some pointers here?  I tried a search on this topic but perhaps i did not dig deep enough and perhaps I missed it.  I do appreciate any helpl

John

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## MandoSquirrel

Gibson look tailpiece on a Martin? Naughty boy!! back in the doghouse wi'ye.

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## doghouse

> Gibson look tailpiece on a Martin? Naughty boy!! back in the doghouse wi'ye.


Hello, if you would have read a bit more before posting your comment, you might have supported my decision.  It was based on aesthetic as well as structural integrity for the instrument. As I mentioned in a previous post, the (possibly original) tailpiece's hole configuration was too close to the belly wood and would have damaged part of the restoration work and caused more problems in the future.  I looked for a modern replacement that may have been closer to the original look for Martin but decided that a custom James Gibson style tailpiece was best for the over all look and integrity of the instrument.  Besides, if some old fart wants to replace it with an original at some point in time for whatever reason, then he can go for it, no harm done.  By the way, I will keep the instrument the original tail piece that was on it along with the Waverly tuners that are in decent shape.

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## Ron McMillan

> Hello Squirrel, if you would have read a just a little bit before posting your comment, you would have understood the reason for my decision.


Doghouse - I have a feeling your Irony/Humour Alert was switched to low when you wrote this. 

By the way, I loved your restoration job on the Martin.


ron

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## doghouse

Perhaps so, I lightened it up a little.  Thanks.  I am from Oregon and perhaps am suffering from a bit of Seasonal Affected Disorder.  Ha!  I would have certainly taken it with more levity had I been more familiar with whomever was quipping my way..

Glad you liked the restoration.  It was fun and now I am embarking on creating a 14" string length version of the same.  I will keep you all posted.

John

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## Bill Snyder

Doghouse, you might get more resposes to your question about your new build in the Builders/Repairs section.

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## doghouse

Thanks Bill, will do..

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## doghouse

Per the Posting Guidelines, please refrain from posting your own ads in the forums.




> Ebay, online auctions, Cafe Classifieds, direct dealer solicitations: while discussing online auctions or the classifieds is permitted, posting personal transactions for business or self-promotion is prohibited.

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## JeffD

I really like the look of that. I have seen those style Martins in the past and didn't think they looked like much, but in blonde with the black pick guard that is one handsome instrument.

I am glad there are people like yourself willing to take on the restoration of old instruments.

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## Jim Garber

Here is what an all-original one looks like (from Frank Ford's site).

Another one here.

Come to think of it, I don't know if I have ever seen a sunburst style 20. I think all were blond. I have seen sunburst style 2-20 and 2-30.

I would think that changing to x-brace would change the tone, but I am sure that it sounds quite nice and might even be an improvement over the original.

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## doghouse

> Here is what an all-original one looks like (from Frank Ford's site).
> 
> Another one here.
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't know if I have ever seen a sunburst style 20. I think all were blond. I have seen sunburst style 2-20 and 2-30.
> 
> I would think that changing to x-brace would change the tone, but I am sure that it sounds quite nice and might even be an improvement over the original.



Hello Guys, actually, according to my source at Martin, there were only a few that were finished blonde.  The other 200 + had color to the finish.  I think the X-bracing tone bars did improve the sound, but I may be a bit biased..  It does make for a more stable top as well.  I originally purchased this model 20 for a model to make another, which I have started.  I am increasing the string length to a 13n7/8 scale so overall increased the size of the instrument as well.  We shall see what this will do.  I have it posted the original here for sale in the classified section, if anyone might be interested.  It is very solid now, sounds and plays great.  Thanks for all of your comments and interest!  John

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## Jim Garber

John: are you talking about the front or the back finish. Maybe it was the back. So yours has the original finish?

I had a later f-hole 2-15 and one "fatal" flaw of those was top seam separation near the tailpiece. I am not sure what sort of reinforcement was there but it obviously was not enough. I am not sure if the same problem happens with the earlier style 20. 

BTW you say: "I also replaced the after factory plastic head stock laminate with a mahogany one." Was that a tortoise celluloid overlay? On later Martin archtops and guitars, Martin actually put on those overlays at the factory. Here is a 1938 Style 2-20 with one.

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## doghouse

Hello Jim, the finish on mine is original.  And yes the reason for the seam separation was a very light construction mainly due to less than substantial block and an overly thin top in this area.  I reinforced mine with a spruce laminate that extends towards the sound hole a few inches and wider than the block so to give extra support.  

The overlay that was on my model 20 was an after factory black plastic.  Not pretty and the inlay was botched so I chose to replace with an original factory choice of mahogany laminate on the peg head. Had I seen the pic that you just showed me, I might have taken liberties and used the tortoise instead.  Quite beautiful and would have matched my pic guard.

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## delsbrother

While I think the mandolin looks great and is probably more stable than the original, I wince a bit at the term "restoration" considering your modifications. 

Regarding your new project, the few Martin archtops I have played had a neck angle that was completely different from Gibson As. Was this the case with your Style 20?

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## doghouse

Yes, true, I used the term restoration, a bit loosely. However, I feel I did bring the mandolin close to it's original design, minus the obvious custom tail piece and customized pick guard and tuners. If you happened to see what I started with, I think you would agree.  By the way, the original Waverly tuners that were on it when I purchased it, along with the original tail piece go with the instrument. Both are in good condition and within a short time, would be much closer to the technical term of restoration. Again, the tail piece that I put on it, the James tailpiece, is much stronger and better for the instrument as the old one helped to create another necessary repair for the holes being too close to the top.  The only major deviation was of course the X tone bars. I could see that the top was a little too thin to support the stress of just a lateral tone bar, especially the one that was in it.  My main intention was of improving the structure to make it into a solid playing instrument as well keep to the original design aesthetic. I feel that I restored / improved the top from a sunken, cracked and weak structure into a strong and more resonant membrane.  It plays and sounds great and I am happy with the overall look, especially with the modified accessories.  Did you happen to see some examples of the ugly hunk of ebony that most of them came with for a pick guard?  Yikes!  If I had one, I would have used it but I think mine looks better anyway.  So there you have it.  Thanks for the feedback.

John

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## doghouse

Actually it is hard to describe the neck angle as the ribs get taller to meet the neck joint.  However, I see it as being about 5%.  About he same as Gibson no?  It is just a completely different feel.  Skinnier and shorter fingerboard and with a petite feel to the shape of the neck.  I played a friends Gibson about a month ago and it felt quite substantial in the left hand as compared to the more delicate Martin neck, to be sure, but I think the angle felt about the same to me.  In making my two point, I am using the raised finger board approach from Gibson A and with a level rib height but with the martin two point design.

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## delsbrother

I think in the Hot Rod world they'd call this a "restification".  :Smile:  I look forward to your original design - we need more two points!

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## doghouse

I will keep you all posted when I finish my hybrid.  Until then you will have to find other things to wince and whine about!  Ha! All the best, John

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## delsbrother

Well, until that day, there are plenty of other vintage Martin 2 points for sale - though some of them are in the less-expensive original, un-improved condition.

YMMV NFI

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## doghouse

Well, in my search, six months ago. I found three model 20 ovals for sale.  One of those sold for $3,500, the other I purchased and the third was the one you are pointing too..  if one is keen on purchasing a Model 20, they are beautiful little mandolins, however be wary of a horizontal block crack.  They are endemic to this model, are hard to see from a photograph and make for an expensive repair.  Also, the top arching may have sunken under the bridge due to the not as supportive lateral tone bar, the one in mine was very light.. Also, my $3,500 is a starting asking price, I am open to reasonable offers.  Take care..

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## Jim Garber

Oh, funny! I didn't realize until I re-read the beginning of this thread that this was the same style 20 from the Roy Smeck auction. And I commented on it a year or so. Now it all comes together.

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## doghouse

Hi Jim, yes, when I was researching this mando about six months ago, I read your post before I purchased it.  In part, your comments help me decide whether or not to acquire this project and because of this forum, we tell a nice little story about this little model 20.  Your comments have been appreciated and helpful!  John

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## delsbrother

Martin 2 points have structural and design issues (from the factory) that are well known. So do Vega cylinderbacks, Howe-Ormes, Lyon and Healys, heck even some Gibsons. Should they all be improved, given the chance? Maybe. Have some been? Sure, famously, even. Would they sound better, be better players? Again, there are plenty of famous examples to the positive. It all depends on the situation - I don't have a problem with the idea of modification itself. I've had them DONE myself.

My beef with this whole deal (if you actually comprehended my comments instead of just sniping at them) is the idea that somehow this has been "fully restored" (and priced accordingly). I don't care who you are (Randy Wood, Gilchrist, et. al.) there is no way I would pay more than original prices for a significantly modified vintage mandolin. Again, YMMV. I appreciate your skills, and truly wish you good luck with your sale.

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## doghouse

> Martin 2 points have structural and design issues (from the factory) that are well known. So do Vega cylinderbacks, Howe-Ormes, Lyon and Healys, heck even some Gibsons. Should they all be improved, given the chance? Maybe. Have some been? Sure, famously, even. Would they sound better, be better players? Again, there are plenty of famous examples to the positive. It all depends on the situation - I don't have a problem with the idea of modification itself. I've had them DONE myself.
> 
> My beef with this whole deal (if you actually comprehended my comments instead of just sniping at them) is the idea that somehow this has been "fully restored" (and priced accordingly). I don't care who you are (Randy Wood, Gilchrist, et. al.) there is no way I would pay more than original prices for a significantly modified vintage mandolin. Again, YMMV. I appreciate your skills, and truly wish you good luck with your sale.


  The original price for this instrument was $150 I think it is worth more than that.    By the way, if you don't want to buy it, you don't have to but there is no need to try and undermine someone else's work and or asking price for the sake of argument.  I have already said my price was a starting point, I have agreed with you that the term "restoration" was used a bit loose and was partially restored partially modified.  I have seen that these instruments are priced between $2,500 and $4,500 according to a couple of reputable dealers I have spoken with in varying states of condition. I have also stated it was an "asking price".  A starting point.  Any way your point is well taken but you could be a little nicer about it. What is YMMV stand for anyway?  Peace Brother.

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## allenhopkins

> ...What [does] YMMV stand for anyway?...


Your Mileage May Vary.  Derived from old advertisements that promised an attractive number of MPG for a certain brand of automobile or gasoline, then appended this disclaimer.  Has become a widely (somewhat inaccurately) used shorthand for, "This is what I think, but you may find something different."

We all know that opinions are -- just that, _opinions._  Except for mine, which are well-reasoned, brilliantly and cogently phrased, and backed up by research and experience.  That is, if you disregard Post #2 of this thread, which was just stupid, as subsequent posts have proven.

Oh, well...

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## doghouse

Oh well.. words to live by.  All the best Allen.

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## doghouse

JSH 2-20 Mandolin by John Hill

For those of you who have followed this thread, I thought I would post this here first so as to wrap up the saga of my foray into the world of the Martin Model 20-2 Mandolin..

I just finished this as of yesterday.  Amidst all of my other work, and having to build all of the jigs and design work etc., it took a longer than anticipated.  

The body outline was traced from the Martin 2-20 that I recently restored.  I enlarged it by 6 percent so to accommodate the 13n7/8 scale length. I chose to build it with X tone bars.  The arching, neck and head and pick guard are of my own design.  I installed a James tail piece.  Euro spruce top, maple back, ebony lining and finished with French Polish.

As a violin maker and now, most recently a mandolin maker, I have a new found respect for the latter.  A lot work and not any less demanding for the technical skill set!

I hope you enjoy these pix and thanks to those for the positive support in the past!  

All the best, John

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## Eddie Sheehy

That's breathtaking, John.  Words fail me...

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## doghouse

Thank you Eddie!

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## McBenet

From one violin repair guy, and wanna be mandolin player, to another (violin maker) ----- Absoulutely Gorgious.  I don't think I can say anything else that would approximate my admiration for your work.

-----Barry

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## doghouse

Too kind Barry, thank you..

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