# Music by Genre > Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance >  Mandolin orchestra/ensemble

## sgarrity

So me and a fews picking buddies have jokingly talked about starting a mandolin orchestra. I doubt we have enough interested parties to have a full orchestra, but maybe a little ensemble. I was thinking about 2-3 mandolins, a mandola and then maybe an octave mandolin or a guitar.

Has anyone else put one together? Especially a smaller group? Where do you get your music? Especially for the mandola and guitar? Any helpful hints and discussin is appreciated.

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## Neil Gladd

Hi, Shaun. There's nothing wrong with starting small. Before mandolin orchestras, there were the smaller mandolin clubs, here. In the 1880s-90s, they consisted of 1st and 2nd mandolin, (octave) mandola and guitar. Some also had a flute and (bowed) cello.

I have links to the major mandolin publishers here. You will find a lot for mandolin ensemble, especially from Trekel in Germany, but if you want to find that early American mandolin club music, you need to take a trip to the Library of Congress. I see that you're in Virginia Beach, so that would be doable if you're willing to give up a weekend. The Music Division is open on Saturdays.

I know that some members here have some of that music, as well, and may volunteer to copy it for you. (It's all PD.)

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## harwilli55

Shaun, 

Giving this a bump, cause I sure would like to see some talk about this also ! 

Are you and Jim thinking about this? When you two coming up to Richmond again? I have been spending a lot of playing time with Bern lately, he talks about you and Jim quite bit!

If you are seriously thinking about a mando orchestra, keep me in mind and in the loop !!!

Harlan

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## Martin Jonas

I am playing in an ensemble much like what you're envisaging, together with fellow Cafe member Fliss. We are eight: six mandolins, plus octave mandolin and guitar. The mandolins split up usually into two voices, and sometimes into three. There are vast quantities of arrangements from the first half of the 20th century (and some more recent ones) that work very well with this configuration. Some of them were published for quartets (guitar/OM/2 mandolins), some for guitar plus two mandolins (in which case the OM plays the second mandolin part one octave down) and some for full mandolin orchestra but work well when reduced to four parts. As we are sort of descendant from two now-defunct mandolin orchestras, we have inherited much of their repertoire, plus I've introduced a good chunk of material from the Nakano site and from scans of old Pagani published scores and similar. We play Italian dance music, light classical, swing, ragtime, Russian music, tangoes, all sorts of fun stuff. No pretensions to technical perfection, no particular intention to play concerts (although we occasionally do play concerts or functions when somebody asks us to), all strictly amateur and informal. It's just a weekly get-together for two-and-a-half hours for our own entertainment. Great fun, and much recommended if you can get a bunch of people together. Most importantly, get a guitar player who can read music and can set a clear rhythm -- he keeps it all together in the absence of a conductor. Ours is wonderful and I don't know what we'd do without him. As our arrangements are essentially quartet arrangements, we can still play even if a few of us can't make it, which happens fairly frequently (I'm the main culprit because I often have to travel on overseas work).

Try it; I'm sure you'll have fun.

Martin

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## John Kasley

Hey Shaun,
I'd be interested in participating in a "peninsula" mandolin ensemble. I live in Williamsburg and we've met at jams and recent Roland White workshop in VA Beach, but you may not remember me. There's a couple other mandolin players here in Williamsburg who have expressed a similar interest to me. 
Send me a pm if you'd like to explore further.
John Kasley

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## Steve-o

Shaun,
I play in a 25-person mandolin/guitar orchestra that's been around for several years now. #It's organized by local musician and instructor Don Julin. You could contact him  here to get some ideas. #Good luck!
Steve

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## sgarrity

Thanks for the interest and the information. This is the kind of discussion I had hoped to get started. This was originally BrianT's idea. So me, Jim and Brian have casually/jokingly tossed the idea around. I think it would be great fun and might start trying to get serious about putting it together.

Harlan, I hope to get to Richmond in the next weekend or two. I haven't been up there to pick in a while.

John, of course I remember you. I always enjoy listening to you and getting to pick a few together. How 'bout a mando orchestra version of Old Dangerfield??

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## Don Grieser

Old Dangerfield could work. Have you heard Butch Baldassari's Nashville Mandolin Ensemble play "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed"? It rocks as a mando ensemble tune.

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## btrott

Shaun,

I am up the road in Williamsburg, and would be interested in seeing what might be possible in terms of mandolin ensembles in the area. Keep me posted. John Kasley and I talked briefly about a similar venture this past summer.

Barry

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## sgarrity

Hello Barry--

I'll definitely keep you in the loop. I'm assuming you guys would like to have something out that way versus on this side of the water? How many people out there do you think might be interested? Is there a good place to meet?

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## morgan

Last year I joined an existing ensemble that is now up to five mandos, plus me on mandola and mando, two nylon-string guitar players, and acoustic bass. We play Balkan, Irish, Klezmer, and Swedish tunes, old French and Italian waltzes, contradance songs, Vivaldi and Bach... It's great fun, enough for me to drive 1.5 hours each way to practice every other week. It's also (for me at least) a whole 'nother way of playing - a challenge, but really broadens the horizons.

"Most importantly, get a guitar player who can read music and can set a clear rhythm -- he keeps it all together in the absence of a conductor." Our bass player mostly fills that roll for us. It is a necessary ingredient.

The classical guitar players really sound great behind all the mandos.

I think we've got at least three parts for most of the tunes, I don't think we play any with more than five. 
Mandola parts are catch as catch can. Some double one of the mando parts, some pieces have mandola or viola parts or enough violin parts that I can take one of those, some I write parts for.

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## John Kasley

I wouldn't mind driving from Williamsburg to either Norfolk/Virginia Beaach or Richmond if we could rotate the practice venue and share the driving "pain" equally. 

In Williamsburg, I wonder if one of the meeting rooms at the library could be used. Maybe Barry could advise.

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## sgarrity

There we go. Rotating would be a good idea. I need to start looking for a place down here to get together.

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## btrott

We certainly could use one of the meeting rooms at the Williamsburg Library w/o charge on a once a month (or every two month) basis. I would also be amenable to traveling on a rotating basis to Richmond or Southside. 

I have a fairly large collection of first and second mandolin music from the late 19th and early 20th century, and could probably track down mandola and m'cello parts for specific pieces from this collection.

Barry

Barry

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## Dave Cohen

I've been interested in a classical ensemble for some time, though inertia has prevented me from doing anything about it.

Because of time constraints, I'm not sure about traveling all the way to VA Beach or the tri-cities area, but Williamsburg is probably doable. I have a mandocello, but I am out of mandolas at the moment. Sold my only demo mandola at CMSA Sarasota. I do have a demo octave at the moment.

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## Chunky But Funky

Shaun, 
Charlie Rappaport conducts both the Three Rivers Mandolin Consort (small ensemble as you are suggesting) and the Pittsburgh Mandolin Orchestra. He is from Northwestern PA, but teaches at Acoustic Music Works here in Pittsburgh 1-2 days a week. I've seen two of their concerts, and they seem to have a library of music. PM me for his e-mail. I just contacted him about joining the PMO. 

Doug

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## John Goodin

Shaun, I suspect that many of the groups listed on the Mandolin Groups and Orchestras page at the CMSA website (http://www.classicalmandolinsociety....groupindex.asp) could give you both good advice and copies of public domain music. I was active in the early years of the Louisville Mandolin Orchestra back in the late 80s. I know that the founder, former CMSA president Mike Schroeder, wrote a helpful article about starting an orchestra a few years ago. I bet if you contact Mike he'd be glad to pass it on. 

There are few things more fun than playing music with a whole bunch of mandolins but it's a lot of work to get something organized and then keep it going. That's one reason why things like the CMSA conferences (where you can play in a 100 plus size group) and events like AmGuss and Carlo's workshops are so good. Those of us who don't have groups nearby can at least get that experience for a few days that way.

John G.

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## delsbrother

Somewhat OT, but I was wondering... How hard would it be to make a group recording digitally (i.e. over the Internet)? That way you could be part of a Worldwide Mando Orchestra even if you were thousands of miles away from the other players. I dunno, would that work, or just be a nightmare?

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## MLT

That is a cool idea! But I believe that due to a problem with syncronization each member (or group that could physically get together) would have to record their part, then someone would have to engineer all of the parts to make them one orchestral piece.

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## sgarrity

Thanks for all the ideas and contacts. I'm slowly starting to look into some of this and hopefully a few of us will get together soon and start the brainstorm!

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## Linda Binder

Wow, we're witnessing the birth of a mandolin orchestra! #Very cool. #Good luck! #The resources mentioned: the Library of Congress, CMSA, other orchestras, etc., should help you build some repertoire and you'll have a great time! #Dave Cohen, I'm sure you know that one of your fine mandocellos adds a great sound to our orchestra. #Thats a beautiful instrument. # 
--Linda, Director Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra "Unplugged Since 1900"

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## Chunky But Funky

Shaun, 
I guess my fingers were moving faster than my brain in my first post, but you may also try to contact Alan Epstein, who I believe was a founder and former director of the Pittsburgh Mandolin Orchestra. He now teaches at Elderly Inst. in Michigan, but I'm not sure how else to get a hold of him besides through Elderly.

Doug

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## John Goodin

Here's Alan's email address as listed under Mandolin Instructors on the CMSA website:
abe526@earthlink.net

Alan's a great guy and could be a lot of help.

John G.

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## sgarrity

Thanks for the email address. A few of use will probably informally discuss this tomorrow night at our Old-Time/Bluegrass jam that I co-host and then we'll have a more formal informational meeting sometime after the holidays.

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## John Goodin

Shaun, pretty much by accident I just came across a link to Mike Schroeder's article "Forming and Managing a Mandolin Ensemble" that is presently hidden on the CMSA website. Here's the link:

http://www.classicalmandolinsociety....ives/1198.html

Mike tends to make things sound easy but I know from close observation how hard he worked to make his dream come to life. His work has resulted in many people getting a great deal of pleasure over the years both from participating in the orchestra and from listening to its performances.

John G.

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## sgarrity

Well it's coming together folks. Our first meeting will be on Jan 26 in Williamsburg, VA.

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## Alex Fields

Another mandolinist I know and I were, at his initiative, hoping to get a classical mandolin ensemble together in East Tennessee, but we found like...nobody except he and I who could read music and play classical music proficiently. I would still very much like to play in one. I think a mandolin quartet, equivalent to a string quartet and playing string quartet repertoire, would be really cool. I know there are several of these out there, including the Nashville Mandolin Ensemble, but most of them seem to play arrangements of stuff and not true string quartet repertoire. I would _love_ to play some late Beethoven quartets or even like some Schubert or Mozart quartets with a mandolin group. Heck, I'd play any of the instruments...I can read all three clefs, played viola in an orchestra for a while and used to take piano lessons. I don't have a 'dola but I'm getting a mandocello in a few months.

On this note, if anyone in eastern TN, western NC, southeast KY, or elsewhere and willing to travel a ways, is interested in maybe learning some repertoire independently then meeting every month or so to practice/record/perform...please get in touch with me, I'd love to do something like this, even if it's just for rare performances or a recording or two and not as a regular gig.

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## JeffD

> I am playing in an ensemble much like what you're envisaging, together with fellow Cafe member Fliss. #We are eight: six mandolins, plus octave mandolin and guitar. #The mandolins split up usually into two voices, and sometimes into three. #There are vast quantities of arrangements from the first half of the 20th century (and some more recent ones) that work very well with this configuration. #Some of them were published for quartets (guitar/OM/2 mandolins), some for guitar plus two mandolins (in which case the OM plays the second mandolin part one octave down) and some for full mandolin orchestra but work well when reduced to four parts.
> 
>  #We play Italian dance music, light classical, swing, ragtime, Russian music, tangoes, all sorts of fun stuff. #No pretensions to technical perfection, no particular intention to play concerts (although we occasionally do play concerts or functions when somebody asks us to), all strictly amateur and informal. #It's just a weekly get-together for two-and-a-half hours for our own entertainment.


I tell you what, that sounds as close to heaven one can get on this earth.

I hope some day to join such a group. 

I keep my mandola skills up - thinking I have less competition and so a better chance of getting in.

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## Alex Fields

> I keep my mandola skills up - thinking I have less competition and so a better chance of getting in.


Yeah, no kidding. Same with viola players in the classical world, or bass players in any world.

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## sgarrity

Our first meeting is this Saturday from 1-4pm at the Williamsburg, VA library. contact me with any questions. Please pass along this info to anyone you know tht may be interested

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## Eugene

Good luck at it!

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