# Music by Genre > Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex >  Black mountain rag

## mcashion

Does anyone know the history of Black Mountain Rag? I'm thinking of playing it on dulcimer in an old time competition, but am wondering if it is considered old time or bluegrass. Anyone know for sure?

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## allenhopkins

Reportedly written by Leslie Keith, fiddle player with the Stanley Brothers when they first started out in the late 1940's. I believe he originally called it _Black Mountain Blues,_ no relation to the Tom Rush song of the same name.

Charles Wolfe apparently wrote an article, _"The Mystery of_ Black Mountain Rag," which I can find referenced through Google, but can't find the text.* Here's what _The Fiddler's Companion_ website has to say:

BLACK MOUNTAIN RAG. Old‑Time, Bluegrass; Rag. A Major (Brody): G Major. AEac# or GDac. AA'BB'CC'. "One of the most popular fiddle tunes in modern history..." (C. Wolfe). The piece became popular in the late 1930's. It was claimed by fiddler Leslie Keith (who is featured on the very first recordings of the Stanley Brothers), who said he wrote it in the early 1940's after taking "a little bit of" 'The Lost Child', and " a little of two or three of the Carter Family's tunes." He named it "Black Mountain Blues" after the name of a mountain in Cumberland County, Tenn., however, "The Lost Child" is the basic melody for the tune. Curly Fox changed the name from "Black Mountain Blues" to "Black Mountain Rag" on his 1947 recording for King, which eventually sold over 600,000 copies (Charles Wolfe, The Devil's Box, Dec. 1982, pgs. 3‑12). Several black mountains have been suggested as the one referred to in the title, including one of the tallest peaks east of the Mississippi, Mount Mitchell. Mitchell was apparently called by various names in the past, beginning with Grey Eagle (due to a rock formation on its side). Later it became known as Black Mountain because of the dark appearance of the balsams at the top. The tune appears in a list of "traditional" fiddle tunes common to the Ozark Mountains, compiled by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph in 1954. It was also a favorite "trick" fiddling tune in the Texas tradition. Brody (Fiddlers Fakebook), 1983; pg. 48. United Artists 9801, "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" (various artists). Rounder 0073, "The White Brothers, Live in Sweden." Vanguard VSD 45/46, "The Essential Doc Watson." Vanguard VRS 9152, "Doc Watson." County 703, Benny Thomasson ‑ "Texas Hoedown." Elektra 7285, The Dillards with Byron Berline ‑ "Pickin' and Fiddlin.'" Antilles 7014, "Country Gazette, Live." Mercury SRM 1‑1058, Vassar Clements ‑ "Superbow." County 730, Kenny Baker ‑ "Baker's Dozen." Folkways FA 2398, "New Lost City Ramblers, vol. 3." Folk Star 613(2764) ‑ "Glen Neaves and the Grayson County Boys (Va.)." Mercury 6246 ‑ Tommy Jackson. King Records 562, Curly Fox (Ga.) {1946}. Caney Mountain Records CLP 228, Lonnie Robertson (Mo.) ‑ "Fiddle Favorites."

Probably more than you wanted to know...

**Later:* It's apparently a chapter in Wolfe's book _The Devil's Box: Masters of Southern Fiddling,_ published by Vanderbilt University Press.

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## Peter Hackman

> Does anyone know the history of Black Mountain Rag? #I'm thinking of playing it on dulcimer in an old time competition, but am wondering if it is considered old time or bluegrass. #Anyone know for sure?


It's considered a tune. Bluegrass and old-timey, to the extent that these labels mean anything, is what you do to the tune.

I believe especially the label "old-time(y)" is unfortunate and misleading.
It seems to be used in the sense of non-bluegrass, thereby also (often)
negating the most vital and universal values of BG. To the Opry circuit Monroe was "old-time" because he didn't use electric instruments. His repertoire
included originals, old fiddle tunes, traditional and original
gospel songs, etc., but also covers of
recent country compositions. I would say that he took stuff from his
own "old-timey" sources and brought it to a higher level of professionalism,
smoother harmony, more varied keys, less repetitive arrangements, etc.

It's unfortunate when the old-timey label (as indeed happens)
is used as an excuse for amateurism. It's very unfortunate that
some of the stuff that was recorded in the 20's didn't evolve
into professional genres parallelling and rivaling Monroe and his followers..

Just as Monroe covered country hits of his day many songs "considered"
old-time were pop songs from the early decades of the 20th century, e.g.,
Down Yonder, Snow Deer, Red Wing, Silver Bell. Nothing wrong with that.
The old-time scene of the 20's was richly varied and broad-minded
although not very slick.

Now the most popular rendition of Black Mountain Rag is that of Curly Fox,
which sold well because it was very good. Old-Time? Bluegrass?
There was at least one electric guitar in both Carter style and
thumbpicking style, and a steel guitar playing some intriguing
scale things on top of everything. I suppose you could call the fiddling
old-timey, not exactly what was taught at conservatories.

You will not invoke the wrath of purists if you incorporate that
wonderful tune in your repertoire.

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## allenhopkins

IHMO, "old-time" as opposed to "bluegrass" is used to designate playing styles, rather than differentiate repertoire. Old-time tempos are closer to dance tempo than super-fast bluegrass, fiddle tends to be the consistent lead rather than swapped breaks among different instruments, banjo is often frailed or clawhammer rather than Scruggs or Keith style fingerpicking, etc. Many tunes are played in both styles, and _Black Mountain Rag_ would surely qualify.

I'm not sure what's meant by old-time being "an excuse for amateurism." There does tend to be a "looser" atmosphere around old-time sessions than bluegrass jams; tunes are played many more times through (as they might be at a dance), there's less emphasis on arrangement, less trading of "breaks," more of a "groove" established rather than a rapid-fire succession of tunes. But old-time musicians can be just as professional and accomplished as bluegrassers.

In the formative years of bluegrass, there were a lot of "hot" fiddlers who had started playing as dance fiddlers, become involved in the fiddle contest circuit in the South, and emerged as virtuosic stage performers. Curly Fox would be a good example, as well as Fiddling Arthur Smith, Chubby Wise, Howdy Forrester, probably Clayton McMichen, Erwin Rouse, etc. Listen to the Rouse Brothers' 1939 _Orange Blossom Special_ -- pre-bluegrass for sure, but just as hard-driving and spectacular as any later performance by a bluegrass band.

I help produce a Fiddlers' Fair every year, at which each act on stage must feature fiddle. No attempt to exclude bluegrass bands, as long as the fiddle leads, but it is interesting to listen to the "hot" non-bluegrass fiddlers with their racehorse tempos and flashy fingerings. Not amateurs, for sure.

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## Peter Hackman

Well, I wrote "when", not "that", and added, in parentheses, "as indeed happens".
The English language was not sung at my cradle, but I do believe I'm
capable of more nuance than some people care to read into my
statements.

My main point is my dislike of labels, especially those that arbitrarily,
and ignorantly, divide certain areas of music, and traditions, into opposing camps.

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## cooper4205

cool info allen. i grew up about 15 miles from Black Mtn. and used to go camping up there and hiking all the time. didn't know that was the "black mountain". good stuff

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## danb

"Black Mountain" tuning or AEAC# is used on a few other realy cool tunes. I love to play "the hanged man's reel" (shows up in the _fiddler's fakebook_ among other places) in that tuning too. It has a banjo-like sound to it as it makes an open chord

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