# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  Is a Tenor guitar tuned to GDAE actually a Tenor?

## PiousDevil

"Tenor" refers to the vocal range of an instrument, right?  I'm too lazy and dumb to figure out if GDAE is still in the tenor range, but I doubt it.  Is it still a tenor?

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## Lord of the Badgers

Would you call it an "octave" guitar?
I think it might confuse folks! Keep it simple  :Smile:

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MdJ

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## SincereCorgi

Eh, I think the etymology that led to a 'tenor' guitar being called 'tenor' comes from the tenor banjo, the origin of which is equally convoluted and hotly disputed among banjo nerds. I think if it's got four strings tuned in fifths and is played with a pick, you can safely call it a tenor. If you're playing Irish, you could just call it an Irish banjo and people will know what you mean. Nobody I know plays a soprano or alto banjo.

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cayuga red, 

DavidKOS, 

dburtnett, 

Lord of the Badgers, 

MdJ

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## MdJ

Dear Corgi and Badger,

WWEZMPD?

(What Would E Z Marc Poschman Do?) (or Say?)

All the Best,

MdJ

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## Charles E.

As SincereCorgi has said, four strings, tuned in fifths, are important. A true tenor guitar should have a scale length of 22 7/8 inches or less.

Tenor banjos have historically had standard scale and short scale (17 fret) banjo's. Tenor guitars are tenor banjo scale necks set into a guitar shaped body.

If the scale is longer it is then a plectrum guitar.

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## EdSherry

In my experience, there are three common 4-string guitar tunings:  CGDA (like the tenor banjo), GDAE, and DGBE (the so-called "Chicago" tuning).  I personally call them all tenor guitars, even though DGBE is not in fifths.    In my experience, most Texas-style TG players use CGDA.  I personally use GDAE most often.

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cayuga red, 

DavidKOS, 

SincereCorgi

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## E. Z. Marc

> Dear Corgi and Badger,
> 
> WWEZMPD?
> 
> (What Would E Z Marc Poschman Do?) (or Say?)
> 
> All the Best,
> 
> MdJ


Since it's still if fifths, of course it's still a tenor! Good enough for Paganini, good enough for you and me!  :Wink:

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cayuga red, 

MdJ

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## journeybear

This chart purports to show the ranges for the human voice and numerous instruments. The tenor guitar is tuned the same as mandola and viola, which is indicated. Hopefully this will help.

It's worth noting that some instruments with "tenor" in their names have different ranges than others. The term may be more relative than absolute, a means of putting instrument families in order within themselves yet not necessarily relative to others. This is something that someone with more familiarity with music theory should be able to clarify.

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Londy, 

PiousDevil

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## Bertram Henze

Just like the "Tenor" with the TB never made strictly logical sense, register-wise, it will evade serious prodding with the TG. You might call the GDAE-tuned TG an Irish Tenor Guitar to clear things up for few, but deepen confusion for many.
If change of tuning would call for a different name, DADGAD and Drop-D guitar players were in for trouble about what exactly it is they are playing.

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## Beanzy

The term "tenor" was not always where it is so it's not surprising it gets shuffled about in the modern era.

19fret is the standard tenor banjo, 17 is the short scale one favoured in Irish music and that gets tuned in GDAE. 
The instrument doesn't stop being what it is just because you stick slightly fatter strings on or give the tuners a twist one way or another. There's a long standing practice of tuning the tenor guitar in Chicago tuning too.

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## MdJ

A notorius musician whose bad reputation precedes him wherever he goes,  once said in my presence that, 

"an instrument is never defined by the manner in which it is tuned" 

this was said relative to the dgbe/cgda/gdae schism which always seems to flare up when more than 3 TG folks gather in one location. I dismissed this statement  because of my prejudice against the speaker but it stayed in my head.... Keith Richards learns open G from Ry Cooder and even jettisons the bass string, but he is obviously still playing _guitar_. John Cage 'prepares' a _piano_ for a performance, but the instrument  is not re-named.....

The whole idea of 'standard' vs 'alternate' tunings for specific instruments seems slippery at best and likely to shift around with individual players, genre of music,  or changing popular taste. After some reflection, I now find myself in reluctant agreement with Mr. Notorious. 

Best always,

MdJ

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DavidKOS

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## Lord of the Badgers

Indeed. And why confuse the poor sod who asks you what your instrument is (when you're not in CGDA)? 

Currently my tenor is actually a four string octave fifths & a fourth guitar!

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MdJ

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## DavidKOS

> In my experience, there are three common 4-string guitar tunings:  CGDA (like the tenor banjo), GDAE, and DGBE (the so-called "Chicago" tuning).  I personally call them all tenor guitars, even though DGBE is not in fifths.    In my experience, most Texas-style TG players use CGDA.  I personally use GDAE most often.


Those are the main tunings, and I've used them all...and a few plectrum banjo players will tune a tenor guitar to CGBD!

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## Pete Martin

> In my experience, most Texas-style TG players use CGDA.


In my experience as well.  I know some who experimented with other tunings but always came back to CGDA.  It really fits nicely in between the 6 string guitar and the fiddle!  To my ears octave mandolin tuning GDAE is too much in guitar range for Texas Fiddle accompaniment.

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cayuga red

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## DavidKOS

> I  To my ears octave mandolin tuning GDAE is too much in guitar range for Texas Fiddle accompaniment.


And thus ideal for Dixieland!

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## PiousDevil

Good stuff in here, thanks guy.

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## mandroid

And then there is 'Chicago'  tuning ,  DGBE..   but its still  being done on a Tenor Guitar, not a  Baritone Uke.

Though it is also an optional tuning on those too .. :Whistling:

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## Explorer

Regarding not liking instruments in the same family based on tuning, over at a banjo website some of the hardcore bluegrassers get angry when anything other than the bluegrass banjo is referred to as a banjo.

Since Django Reinhardt immediately taught himself to play banjo guitar when he received one as a gift in 1922 at the age of 12, and recorded on one by 1927-1928, it leads to grumbling among those who don't want facts to interfere with their view of either history or nomenclature.

----

In a nutshell, yes, a 4-string guitar can safely be called a tenor guitar. 

For the record, even Bach wrote music for violin in alternate tunngs, not just fifths.

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MdJ

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## DavidKOS

> Regarding not liking instruments in the same family based on tuning, over at a banjo website some of the hardcore bluegrassers get angry when anything other than the bluegrass banjo is referred to as a banjo.
> 
> Since Django Reinhardt immediately taught himself to play banjo guitar when he received one as a gift in 1922 at the age of 12, and recorded on one by 1927-1928, it leads to grumbling among those who don't want facts to interfere with their view of either history or nomenclature.


That's odd, because the bluegrass style banjo wasn't developed as we know it until after the tenor banjo craze brought metal strings and resonators to the banjo world - which prior to the early 20th century was gut strings and open backs played either "stroke" style or classically fingerpicked. Also the tenor guitar had been developed before Earl Scruggs and Don Reno hit the scene.

Guitar banjos have been around since the late teens/early 20's for sure, Johnny St. Cyr used one in early jazz recordings.

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MdJ

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## mandroid

Long history of the  Tenor CGDA banjo in trad dixieland Jazz , the GDAE  Irish  tenor banjo has a more recent history , 

 but has taken a pretty firm  place in Sessions.  tenor guitars are of course cousins  for both..

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## Explorer

> Regarding not liking instruments in the same family based on tuning, over at a banjo website some of the hardcore bluegrassers get angry when anything other than the bluegrass banjo is referred to as a banjo.
> 
> Since Django Reinhardt immediately taught himself to play banjo guitar when he received one as a gift in 1922 at the age of 12, and recorded on one by 1927-1928, it leads to grumbling among those who don't want facts to interfere with their view of either history or nomenclature.





> That's odd, because the bluegrass style banjo wasn't developed as we know it until after the tenor banjo craze brought metal strings and resonators to the banjo world - which prior to the early 20th century was gut strings and open backs played either "stroke" style or classically fingerpicked. Also the tenor guitar had been developed before Earl Scruggs and Don Reno hit the scene.


I agree it's odd, but they have a history of those reactions against history, so it's not out of character. *laugh*

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cayuga red, 

DavidKOS

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## s11141827

I use GDAE Tuning on the Tenor Guitar w/ John Pearse 450 Strings cause it allows me to get a much deeper & mellower sound.

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## s11141827

CGDA is an Alto Voice, on the other hand GDAE is the true Tenor for both Tenor Guitar & Tenor Banjo.

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## JeffD

> Since it's still if fifths, of course it's still a tenor!


Except when it is tuned DGBE, then it is a Chicago tuned tenor guitar. 

I think "tenor" when describing a guitar, in reality, is synonymous with "four string".

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## journeybear

> I think "tenor" when describing a guitar, in reality, is synonymous with "four string".


I'll go along with this definition. It may not be 100% accurate, but it rings true. What Charles E. said back in post #5 




> Tenor guitars are tenor banjo scale necks set into a guitar shaped body.


also rings true. I've always thought tenor guitars were tuned in fifths - which is why I own one (a steel one)and can play it.  :Wink: 

The notion of the term "tenor" meaning the same thing when applied to the guitar or the voicing was dispelled earlier in the thread.

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