# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  Finishing Process

## Jules Tenney

First time build, here, in thw white and sounding good. I haven't given too much thought to the finishing process until now: I'm finding the whole thing a little bewildering... how does this sound as a basic process:

1. Finish everything off, obviously...

2. Sand through 320, remove all marks and scratches.

3. Dampen the wood to raise the grain, let dry and then sand 320 x 3 or 4 times to prepare the wood.

4. Apply the Stain directly to the wood, using water based aniline stain from behlen (any experiences with that, or colours used for your sunburst would be good). Planning on applying several thin coats of quite dilute stain to build the colour up slowly.

5. Seal the stain. Is this necessary with water based stain? With a spray shellac?

6. French Polish with Shellac.

Are any steps missing? Any advice? I'm looking for a fairly simple basic process that has the least options for going wrong, time is not really an issue.


Here's the mandolin as it looks right now:

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## Lefty Luthier

Suggest using masking tape over the binding before stain. Sure saves a lot of scraping later. Transtint wood dye is a good choice with either water or preferably denatured alcohol.

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## Jules Tenney

I dn't think you can get TransTint in the UK. Shipping stuff from the US has nearly broke me already on this project...

Otherwise the process sounds about right?

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## sunburst

Your process sounds good to me. I still scrape bindings, masking just doesn't work well for me. I use alcohol soluble dyes, but lots of people have good luck with water soluble dyes so you should be fine there.
If you really are "...looking for a fairly simple basic process that has the least options for going wrong...", stain it a single solid color and rub the finish on using Truoil. If you are already adept at FP and feel confident in your staining ability, then you're already beyond the need for a simple solution to the finish problem, and you're on the right track.

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## Jules Tenney

Thanks. The one colour tru-oil does sound like the simplest approach, but there have been other steps in the process that I could have avoided, and I've been pleased that I chose to do them. So I'm thinking about the sunburst. I also read somewhere that tru-oil ends up as a french polishing exercise anyway, so thought 'why not just french polish from go'. 

I've never french polished anything, but I don't mind a lengthy process. I'll practive whatever process I commit to on some spare wood first and make sure I'm happy with where it's going.

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## j. condino

Where are you located? There is a workshop on this hand rubbed sunburst process in Seattle in about seven weeks at the Guild of American Luthiers show:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Skill....aspx?id=30182

j.

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## Tavy

Jules the process sounds about right to me, I do as you do with a couple of minor variations:

* When the grain is no longer being raised I sand to 400 (if I'm staining), or through to 1200 and then 0000 wire wool if not (mahogany necks come up really nice this way).  You can also sand _very very_ lightly after dying with some ultra fine grit (or the wire wool) to get that final polish before finishing.
* From you're posts it sounds like you're in the UK?  If so then the Liberon water based wood dyes work really well for me - you can pick them up in your local hardware store too - though for the concentrated single colour ones you may have to try eBay.
* I don't spray shellac - just wipe it on after the dye is well and truely dry - dying is a "wipe on wipe off" process anyway - slap it on liberally (dilute it if you just want to tint) then use a clean dry cloth to remove as much as you can - so very little if any should come off on your FP pad later.  Just change the pad after the first couple of sealer coats if you're worried.  To be honest your more likely to move the natural oils in the wood than the dye (watch out for the darker woods).
* For binding I've used masking tape OK-ish, but now I paint shellac onto the binding before dying, then use 400 grit to smooth off the shellac on the binding and remove any dye sitting on the surface.  Also use a damp cloth to remove the worst of the excess dye from bindings before it dries and then there's not much to do later  :Wink: 
* For building up the shellac I use a hybrid french-polish/padding technique, then sand level and work up through the grits (to 2500) and either FP the final coat or simply polish with Maguiars #2 - the instrument in my avatar was done that way - and it's almost as glossy as FP but not quite so "in your face" shiny.  <shrug> whatever you prefer I guess.  TruOil is definitely easy and a lot quicker (though I would still do a shellac sealer coat or 2 (or 3) first) but IMO nothing beats shellac for appearance.

HTH, John.

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## Fretbear

You don't need to be told of the need to be very careful, as you must have already been to have such a beautiful instrument there. Ill-advised finishing choices can quickly spell disaster to an otherwise successful project. Staining, sun-bursting and FP is not for the faint of heart or likely to end up great on one's first attempt. I would also choose a single color, and would use colored spray lacquer, maybe with a similar colored primer beforehand, polished out after it cures, but then I love blacktops, and don't buy into the superiority of shellac finishes.

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## Jules Tenney

Thanks. Yes, I don't need to be told to be careful, having got this far and pleased with the result. Indeed, that is the dilemna: finish it off nicely and end up with a really nice instrument, or finish it off safely and end up with a really nice instrument.

Anyone got any pictures of a single colour F5? I cannot find any online anywhere, they are all sunburst. Somehow, the sunburst feels like the right thing to try and do. This whole project has been about learning new stuff. I feel pretty confident I could do a one colour tru oil finish.

If the sunburst stain goes wrong there are options to bail out and

i) sand it off and start again
ii) sand it off and start on the one colour tru oil approach having realised this is w-a-y harder than I had realised, and there's not a hope of success;
iii) turn a messed up sunburst into a dark one colour finish;

With a decent sunburst stained on, I can still go the tru-oil finish from there, right?

I think I really need to get some practice wood: what did you guys practice on?

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## Jules Tenney

This is the liberon concentrated dye?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-l...5ml-prod22543/

The dye for a one colour approach?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-l...dye-prod23634/

One thing I am not too sure about is getting the colours right for the sunburst from the primary colours in the pots. Presumably if you use them straight you end up with something looking like an archery target.

This whole finishinging thing is most bewildering.

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## Fretbear

> Thanks. Yes, I don't need to be told to be careful, having got this far and pleased with the result. Indeed, that is the dilemna: finish it off nicely and end up with a really nice instrument, or finish it off safely and end up with a really nice instrument.
> 
> Anyone got any pictures of a single colour F5? I cannot find any online anywhere, they are all sunburst. 
> 
> If the sunburst stain goes wrong there are options to bail out and
> 
> i) sand it off and start again


Back to the bare wood won't be an option in this case, and there are the graduations to consider.

Here is the Gibson Victorian, solid black-top with reddish-brown back and sides. The F-holes on this are bound with white.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...Victorian.aspx

Here's the Goldrush:

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...-Goldrush.aspx

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## sunburst

> ...what did you guys practice on?


I practiced on hundreds of banjos! 
Spruce scrap is probably best for practice, but to get a feel for staining the carved curves of a mandolin top, with it's varying amount of end grain, a carved scrap is best. It can be just 2x4 material, spruce, fir, pine, something like that, and it needs to be prepared just like you will prepare the mandolin. Sand and raise the grain like preparing the mando. BTW, I seldom sand finer than 220 grit to prepare the wood, but sanding must be thorough, meaning _all_ scratches and damage caused by previous machining, carving and sanding are removed. Wetting to raise grain and re-sanding more than once can locate scratches, but it's surprising how many can escape detection and then show up when the staining starts. When that happens, I stop staining and sand away the offending scratches/damage.

A 'burst just needs to be evenly graded from the chosen center color to the chosen edge color. It is fine if it is a light or dark 'burst, if the center is larger or smaller, lots of variation is acceptable in sunbursts. Take your time, go at it slowly, observe the dye and how it is being accepted by the wood, avoid the places that are darkening faster and concentrate on the places that are not taking stain as well, and when you have something that looks good to you, stop. As the dyes dry, it may start to look blotchy or uneven, but it is fine. The look that you have while the dyes are still wet is the look that you will have when the finish is applied, so observe the color while still wet to know when you're done and don't worry about what it looks like dry. The longer you work at it the darker it will get, and if you are never satisfied with the 'burst you can keep going until you have a dark color all over. Sanding and starting over is not a good option because the dyes penetrate pretty deep into the wood unless the wood is sealed before staining.
The FP vs TO decision is independent of the coloring decision. Whether you end up with a masterful 'burst or a solid dark color, after staining, you can decide whether to use shellac or Turoil.

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## Tavy

> I practiced on hundreds of banjos!


LOL best quote I've seen all day!  :Smile:   :Smile:

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## Nonprophet

I'm considering a kit build too and I was wondering if it would work out ok to stain first and then put the binding on and varnish? Seems like it would save the time and effort of masking/scraping the binding...


NP

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## Tavy

> I'm considering a kit build too and I was wondering if it would work out ok to stain first and then put the binding on and varnish? Seems like it would save the time and effort of masking/scraping the binding...


You need to be able to sand/scrape the binding so it's flush with the body - hard to do that without sanding the colour off as well  :Frown:

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## Nonprophet

> You need to be able to sand/scrape the binding so it's flush with the body - hard to do that without sanding the colour off as well


Got it, thanks!

NP

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## Jules Tenney

I think, after lots of thought, I'm going to go for the one colour tru oil finish. Seems I'll get a very successful project completed that way. 

One thing I'm thinking about is doing the neck back and sides one colour, and the top another, and trying for a 'faux sunburst' with the one colour lightened a little in the middle of the top / back. Anyone ever tried that? I'm thinking I can put one coat on the top and then another round the edges and blend it in to the one coat. Any mileage down that road you reckon?

I spent a lot of time looking at and playing the mandolin tonight, and it's too good and sounds too nice to mess up now.

Thanks for the advice, you guys are invaluable.

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## peter.coombe

Practice, practice, practice on scrap before you touch that mandolin.  As John suggested, carved scrap is a good idea.

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## Jim Hilburn

So I'm in the middle of my second french polish session and it's going amazingly well. But there are still some things that all the reading and even watching Steve G. don't address until your actually doing it.
 Sometimes I seem to get exactly the right combo of shellac, alcohol and oil and it just goes on like a dream. Other times it's dragging a little and leaving streaks, not the "vapor trail" but it's just not flowing as well as I wish. So I'm looking for insight on the proper load in the applicator.

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## Chris Baird

Usually, when the FP isn't laying down right, despite the normal combo of shellac and oil, the pad/fad/? needs to be replaced with a new one.  But, I also notice that some days just aren't good FP days; humidity, temp, alignment of the stars???

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## Jules Tenney

Does anyone have a recipe for the Sheraton Brown stain used on the Gibson Jam Masters? I believe thi is an old gibson colour? I reckon that looks classy. I'm planning to use Liberon or Behlen Dyes. How does one best go about trying to mix and match a dye to a photo?

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## sunburst

Photographs are not reliable enough for matching colors. You can match the photo, but the photo isn't likely to actually match the actual instrument closely.
There is no recipe that is commonly used for the color. You'd have to start with dark brown and a scrap of wood. Stain the scrap with the brown dye and compare to the original under sun light, incandescent light, fluorescent light, and any other light. To darken, add black, to make it more red, green or blue, add what you need. After each try, once again stain the scrap and check under all lights. When you have a matching color, you have the recipe... if you measured each addition of dye and kept good records throughout the process.

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## Charles E.

To add to the French Polish thought, I am Just finishing up my mando by doing a final coat of french polish. I bought some "green" denatured alcohol by Crown, it is supposed to be friendlier to the enviornment, and made a one pound cut. It is AWFUL. I should have known when it took two days to dissolve the shellac flakes. I think it has too much H2o in it or absorbes it more readily from the air, but I will never use it again. I made a new batch with the regular stuff and all is well.

Jules, great looking instrument! Keep us posted when it is done.

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## Jules Tenney

Any reason not to use Colron Refined Wood Dye? Main reason is convenience as they stock it down the road.
http://www.colronrefined.co.uk/

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## dunwell

A suggestion I got way back when from Michael Lewis on spraying sunburst is related to practicing the spraying technique. He suggested to make up a bunch of mandolin shaped hardboard or particle board bits. Then practice your moves for spraying on these and just toss them when done. Or you can run them through the drum sander and re-use them. I sanded mine to 220g and sealed them with spray shellac first to simulate a sanded and sealed instrument. This is how my tops are anyway, after the first try to spray or rub to the raw spruce shellac seal the top before rubbing or spraying stain. This seals the binding too and helps with cleanup. And further you can recover from error by wiping off the offending stains w/o it already being into the wood. I still like to shoot straight to the wood on the back and sides though because there is a difference in the look of the stain in wood as opposed to stain sitting on top and the tighter grain of the maple is not so prone to the splotchy look as with spruce. 

Alan D.

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## Jules Tenney

When staining, do you do the whole instrument in one go, or do the top, back, and sides / neck in stages? I'll be wiping it on.

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## JeffD

There is a video somewhere, and I cannot find the link, where a fellow, a guitar maker if I remember, goes through the whole finishing process with a plank. It ends up being a lovely amazing shade of green with the grain just popping through and a subtle sunburst. As I remember. But he goes through the whole process in detail - enough detail to remind me why I don't make 'em, I just play 'em.

Anyone remember or know the video I am talking about?

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## Ed Goist

Jeff; I haven't seen that one, but I really like this 9 video series on the finishing process for a violin.
Very similar, I'm sure, to the process for finishing a mandolin, however I know that not all (very few?) mandolin luthiers apply ground coat(s).
Very cool stuff.

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## Nonprophet

Is this it?





NP

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JeffLearman

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## sunburst

I believe Jeff is referring to James Condino's video. I think this is a link to it, but it might not workhttp://www.finewoodworking.com/Skill....aspx?id=30182

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## JeffD

> I believe Jeff is referring to James Condino's video. I think this is a link to it, but it might not workhttp://www.finewoodworking.com/Skill....aspx?id=30182



Yes that is it. Just amazing. I can't watch it without imagining myself screwing it up with every other step.  There is a lot of wisdom in practicing with a plank or two or several, before touching a musical instrument.

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## Jules Tenney

Gents, just checking in with my evening finishing question:

I'm trying to start to mentally rehearse the staining process. Do you stain the top, back and neck and sides in seperate stages, or do you do the whole thing at once?

I have settled on Behlen Nutmeg Brown as the closest thing I can find to the colour of the Gibson Jam Masters (in some photographs anyway...) and it's close enough

Nutmeg Brown:


Nice Gibson Mandolins

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## sunburst

> Do you stain the top, back and neck and sides in seperate stages, or do you do the whole thing at once?


It doesn't really matter, especially if you are staining everything one color. I do the top, the back, the rim, then the neck, but as I said, it doesn't matter.

In the sunburst video above (that's me, BTW), I stained the whole mandolin with amber in the order above (I think...) then did the burst on the top followed by the rest of the coloring on the rest of the instrument.

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## Tavy

> I'm trying to start to mentally rehearse the staining process. Do you stain the top, back and neck and sides in seperate stages, or do you do the whole thing at once?


A bit of both - assuming that Behlan's is a "wipe on wipe off" product like most water based dyes, I slap the dye on one surface (neck, or back, or sides or top), then immediately wipe off with a clean cloth - this ensures an even colour over that area.  Then I immediately move on to the next surface and repeat.  What I don't do is multiple coats in one sitting - I let it dry fully first so I can evaluate what I have before adding any more dye.  I believe some of the sunbusters do it all in one sitting though - IMO that takes more skill though  :Wink:

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## Fretbear

Because it is all the same color it shouldn't be too big a deal, but still the spruce top and maple sides will not behave exactly the same as far as absorption of the stain goes. I would want to at least slightly mask the sides and neck until I was done with the top, just to prevent inadvertent dribbles that I then had to match up after. For instance you might like the look of it with just one pass on the maple back and sides, but if it is already dribbled on, then you might have to end up making it look darker than you want it to. Just a thought.

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## Jules Tenney

> In the sunburst video above (that's me, BTW


I doff my cap to you. Nice. 

I picked up the dye this morning, so I am now offically dangerous. It's not water based, it's solvent based, and the chap at Behlen's said "this is fantastic stuff, but this is the last of it since the regulations changed. When it's gone it's gone. You ought to get a few extras to put to one side if you like it. The WB stuff is not as good as this". 

I got some retarger too, so I'll play around on some scraps of wood now and see what happens...

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## Jules Tenney

Tonight's question, finshing fans, is:

Do I need a sealer between Behlen Solar Lux dye, and Tru Oil. On my very scrappy sample, the oil did not appear to move the dye.

BTW, the Nutmeg Brown does not look like the sample once on wood. It's a beguiling red / brown. Sometimes it's red. Sometimes it's brown. But's it's too red. The advice about different light is spot on - thanks.

I am going to make 6 practice surfaces. Got an old shelf that I can cut into three top shapes, and have a crack at each side = 6. 

My f-holes are now finished, so that means it's time to take the strings and hardware back off. Part of the problem I've got, is not playing it when I'm supposed to be working on it...

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## Jim Hilburn

I think sealing with sprayed shellac is always a good idea before hand applying any clearcoat.
If something is too red before clearcoats, watch out because red explodes once it's coated. When I spray it on it can look invisible but look very bright once clearcoated.

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## Dale Ludewig

I haven't read every post here.  But it is important to make sure your sample wood is the same as your final wood.  Sealing at this point seems like a good idea.  Jim is right as to red becoming quite vibrant after being sprayed.  (Not that that's a bad thing)  When you're working with your samples, if it is too red, you can move it to brownish by adding a bit of green into the mix.  Ideally you should spray this because you can control it more than by hand applying whatever mixture you're using.  The other side of this "solution" is that is will darken the look as it moves to the brown.  And you never know exactly what it will look like until it's clearcoated.

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## Keith Newell

Here is a picture of a single color F model of mine.
Keith

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## Jules Tenney

> Here is a picture of a single color F model of mine.
> Keith


Nice! What finish is on that? That's not tru-oil...

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## Tavy

Jules - although you can put TruOil straight on - IMO you get a better/smoother finish if you seal with shellac first.

HTH, John.

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## Jules Tenney

> Here is a picture of a single color F model of mine.
> Keith


What did you do to make the grain look so good? Is that just what happens, or did you force the contrasts somehow? On my scrap, the grain is really accentuated with the dye, but my scrap is very scrappy. I need to make a half decent top to practice on I think.

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## Jules Tenney

When I picked up my dye, the chap at Behlen's wasn't over-enthusiastic about tru-oil. Reckoned it would need re-doing quite frequently. That doesn't really jive with what I've read - I think he might have thought I meant a tung oil? He recommended their aerosols of stringed instrument lacquer. That does appear to be an easy way of spraying a lacquer. He reckoned on 3 cans for a mandolin @ £10 a can.

Anyone have any experiences with either i) the longevity of tru-oil; ii) the aerosols?

I'm quite happy with my experiments with tru-oil so far, but a lacquer would be something to think about, if I can do it easily...

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## Jim Hilburn

Jules, I think your starting to grasp the concept that there's no easy way to achieve a great finish. It takes a lot of effort and there's a steep learning curve for any method you decide to choose.
 That's why they invented lacquer, a way to avoid many of the pitfalls asscociated with the more traditional finishes. Yet it isn't easy to deal with either. Used in a factory setting where your doing a lot of instruments it makes things much easier but for your first finish...
Still probably a good way to proceed since it's available to you. And it is basically it's own sealer coat. Buy an extra can for practice.
Try to make the first coat very thin.

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## j. condino

> .....a fellow, a guitar maker if I remember....



 :Wink:  :Wink:  :Wink:

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## Tavy

> When I picked up my dye, the chap at Behlen's wasn't over-enthusiastic about tru-oil. Reckoned it would need re-doing quite frequently.


IMO there's no issue with durability of TruOil - it's pretty tough if anything - though perhaps less resistant to dings than some others - but that's because it's so flexible which is also a good thing... so you pays your money and takes your choice  :Wink:

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## Fretbear

Anyone who can build a mandolin as nice as you have can surely do a beautiful lacquer finish, even on the first try. Lacquer is an excellent finish for a musical instrument, it provides  great protection for the mandolin and sounds great as well. 
It is very forgiving; if it runs somewhere you can easily just sand it out after (the same day!) and then spray over it and it will all blend together as if nothing ever happened in the first place. If you go with lacquer you have lots of options. You can spray the top with a colored lacquer of your choice (spray a lacquer primer coat first of the same color if available) and then stain the back and sides a different color, afterwards spraying multiple coats of a clear matte or glossy lacquer coat over that stain.
Getting a great-looking spruce top is fairly easy with a colored lacquer. The maple back and sides are more amenable to being stained and then clear-coated with lacquer (and still looking good) than a softwood top is in my experience. Initially the colored lacquer will have an "orange peel" look, but after the lacquer gasses-off and cures, which can take several weeks or months, you can then buff it up to a beautiful shine with some super-fine wet and dry sandpaper followed by a buffing compound.

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## Jules Tenney

Thanks. This evening I cut a rough top from an old shelf, sanded it down and stained it. No real problems, so I feel much more confident. As it happens, you just seem to whack it on. I went for the Behlen Medium Brown Mahogany stain, and it's red when you put it on, but it browns out as it dries. It looks like a colour that can either blend into the shadows - or come out under the lights. Maybe the greater red when it's wet is the same thing you said about how red jumps out under a finish? Applying an even stain was not difficult at all.

If the mando looks as good as my rough cut, then I may well want to go for a better finish than tru-oil. I think I'd be tempted to try a french polish, rather than lacquer. I just like the idea of doing it. I think if I go down that road I need to French polish a practice piece first, all the way through, and learn how to do it. I might sand off a £15 ukelele and have a play.

This is all great advice, I'm learning a real lot here. Thanks also for the kind words on the mandolin, and yes, I am just coming to terms with just how hard a great finsih really is!

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## Tavy

> Thanks. This evening I cut a rough top from an old shelf, sanded it down and stained it. No real problems, so I feel much more confident. As it happens, you just seem to whack it on. I went for the Behlen Medium Brown Mahogany stain, and it's red when you put it on, but it browns out as it dries. It looks like a colour that can either blend into the shadows - or come out under the lights. Maybe the greater red when it's wet is the same thing you said about how red jumps out under a finish?


Nod. Usual rule of thumb is that the surface will look like it does when wet once the finish is on.

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## Andy Morton

You seem to be very careful...and not apt to rush things as shown by your questions....I would say that a shellac based french polish with care and thoughtfulness (including some practice) would turn out very well for you.  For me at least, it is very easy to correct any finishing mistakes or imperfections with successive applications assuming you can take the time (advantage of a hobbyist luthier) and are not on tight schedule for completion of the instrument.

Andy
Madison, WI

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## Jules Tenney

I put some tru-oil over the stain on the dummy top: yes, it is now more red, and a little darker for the tru-oil. i can leave the final finish decision until the stain is on, and yes, there's no need to rush into anything at this stage of things and mess it up.

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## Jules Tenney

Tonight question is:

The dye has raised the grain on my sample. So I will have to raise the grain with water, and sand it off before staining, right? It's supposed to be a NGR, did I put too much on? The sample is quite soft pine, and I appreciate that is not the same as the mando...

So the real question: if you have to raise the grain and sand it off, do you then proceed immedietely to staining, or can the wood sit at all?

And you clean it after sanding with what we call lighter fluid, like for a zippo?

thanks,

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## sunburst

Wet the wood to raise the grain, let it dry, re-sand just lightly enough to remove the "fuzz", and you're ready to stain. Brushing with a dust brush and/or blowing with compressed air is enough to clean the dust off. The stain and finish work best directly after sanding, but you can wait a day with no real problems.

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## Jules Tenney

what about time between applying the stain and the first coat of finish? I'd have thought there was a bit more to play with there?

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## sunburst

You can get away with longer, but sooner is better, just like a glue joint. Either way, you want something to stick to the wood (glue or finish) and a freshly prepared surface sticks best.

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## walt33

> 


 At least he didn't call you a banjo maker!

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## Jules Tenney

Tonights poser for you fans of finishing is this:

After Behlen Solar Lux Dye. A Tru-Oil sealing coat before the French Polish? Is that an acceptable way forward? I need to seal the dye before the french polish, definitly, and tru-oil will work as a sealer?

I can get some other sealer, but I was planning on doing a pure tru-oil finish: in fact it appears I have an option to take a foot on that road before finally committing to finsih the tru-oil, or switch to french polishing?

That's a good option if it stacks up.

All the hardware is off now. Plan to do the stain this weekend, with the rest of the evenings this week on the final bits and pieces.

A further question for those finishing freaks out there that found the first one too easy is this: how to keep dust away from the french polish as you do it?

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## Tavy

I use shellac all the way.  IMO shellac makes a good sealer for TruOil, but I wouldn't do it the other way around - if you accidently sand through the shellac into the TruOil when levelling there's a good chance you'll end up with witness lines.  Which is not to say it can't be done... most things can  :Wink: 

The trick when applying the first shellac coat with a pad, is _don't hang round_, and _never touch the same area twice_.  Follow that and you really shouldn't get any colour blead... but as ever try it out first on one of your scraps.

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## Bill Snyder

I have not used a true french polish but I have finished a few instruments by padding on straight shellac and dust has never been a problem because the straight shellac dries so quickly.

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## Jules Tenney

When you're applying he stain, how do you gt in under the fingerboard extension, and around it's support? I can imagine making a mess there. I'm guessing that I would stain the easy bits of the top, and get the pad in there as much as possible, and then get in there with a smaller brush / small pad?

Thanks for the advice on shellac over oil. I read somewhere that Gibson finished their early mandolins with Shellac over an oil finish, and have seen several other folk recommend it as a method. Any other experiences? On the other hand, if I just use a shellac wash coat, you just apply it with a soaked pad, and basically get it on as fast as possible, in lines down the mandolin, or you do the curly figure-eight french polishing motion? I think I'm becoming possesed with this whole process... I guess I just want to know exactly what I'm doing in my head before I start...

Finally, if I want to really make the figure in the maple come out, how best to do that? Before the stain, or after?

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## Dick Hutchings

You can't rub or pad shellac over stain without spreading, smudging, wrecking your stain job. I found that out the hard way on #1. You should spray some very light coats of something before padding.

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## Jim Hilburn

If your not set up to spray I noticed in the Fernandez french polish video he brushes on a sealer coat of shellac before proceeding to the pad. However he isn't sealing color since he's doing a classical guitar. I just wonder if you were to brush on a wet coat if you could get away with it. I bet you could if you used water dye.

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## j. condino

> You can't rub or pad shellac over stain without spreading, smudging, wrecking your stain job. I found that out the hard way on #1. You should spray some very light coats of something before padding.


If you use a solvent based stain and then try to pad on a solvent based finish, like shellac, the colors will pull and run. (I've also made this mistake early on...) That is why you find both water based stains and solvent based from better suppliers. My preference are for the separate ones sold by LMI. If you use the water based color on the wood as shown in my video over at finewoodworking.com, you can rub it all day with shellac and there will be no color pulling or smudges. If you use one of the more generic types like colortone that claim to work in any liquid medium, you may run into different issues like color pulling and smudging. The ultra -toxic MEK color dyes can aslo be padded on by hand, but can run into issues with them smudging and running also, but the color intensity is off the charts once you find a way that works for you!

The number one thing to remember about almost all finish work is that time in the saddle usually trumps all advice. Practice, practice, practice, and then start working. When I first started french polishing and hand rubbing color sunbursts, it probably took me close to 60 hours of fussy, delicate work to get a finish that I was unsatisfied with but finally gave up and had enough with the process.  Now it generally takes me one hour long session for all of the color work, another hour for any scraping and touch up, and then five 45 minute sessions complete the entire finish- that is quicker than I can do spray work and clean up all of the equipment and without any of the chemical offgassing issues. It is really more of an approach and mindset than a complex process. For folks interested, I'll be giving a full demonstration of the handrubbed sunburst at the Guild of American Luthiers  show next month.

Post some images and let us see the process- we're a bunch of visual geeks...

j.
www.condino.com

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## Mike Black

> Post some images and let us see the process- we're a bunch of visual geeks...


That's what I was also thinking.  

James, Do you think there will be any video of your Guild demonstration for those of us that can't attend?

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## Jules Tenney

I think the problem comes down to sealing the dye. This is a one colour finish, so more forgiving. Thanks so much for bearing with my questions.

I've mixed up some shellac and tried it on the sample. It is much more what I'm after than the tru-oil, so that's what I'm going to do.

The choice I have, I think, is either switch to a water based dye, or find a way of sealing the dye stain I have before trying to apply the shellac by hand at all.

Are there aerosols of shellac sealer available? Or something else that would work?

I think brushing might work better than padding if I end up applying that first coat with my hands.

thanks again, this is so helpful.

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## Mike Black

You can try using this to spray on the first coats of Shellac.

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## Tony Francis

Jim how did you like the Fernandez dvd?

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## Jules Tenney

> Now it generally takes me one hour long session for all of the color work, another hour for any scraping and touch up, and then five 45 minute sessions complete the entire finish- that is quicker than I can do spray work and clean up all of the equipment and without any of the chemical offgassing issues. www.condino.com


This is exactly what I want to do. What exactly do you do now?

On the other hand, you wouldn't do what you do now, if you hadn't gone through that initial 60 hours, and for all 60 of them I imagine you were doing what you thought was the best thing. That's where I am. Working on the samples is most illuminating.

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## Jules Tenney

> You can try using this to spray on the first coats of Shellac.


I wondered about that.

I had even thought about using one of those things my mum had to water the flowers with. Sort of pump action spray gun she used to put Baby Bio in. I imagine that would end in tears... yes?

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## j. condino

Mike:

I'm pretty sure that there will be a film crew there covering the whole workshop that they will likely use in the future. As for right now, I just know the day of the event production details.  It should be in one of the large halls at Pacific Lutheran University where I'll be wired for sound and they have a film crew doing closeups of the details while I work that will be projected on one or possibly multiple large screens; kind of like having a fancy gig with a nice band  at one of the festivals where they project everything so the folks in the cheap seats can see a little!

We're also in the process of finishing up a spray finishing video that Ken Jones and I did with the film crew from Dream Guitars in the booth with us. You'll be able to see a full sunburst on one of Ken's guitars, a historic uke, and and a GIANT 'burst on one of my double basses that mimics the Brock '59 Les Paul. That one should be up on their Youtube channel soon.

The best thing I ever did for my learning curve with French polishing shellac was to take a private workshop from Eugene Clark- the old classical guitar Jedi- about a dozen years ago. He channels everything down to just what is important and throws away anything that is not. His results are very fast, timelessly beautiful, and his methodology is near zen like....as he told me, "Why would I ever need to take up yoga or fly fishing when I get to blissfully French polish my guitars every day....."

j.

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## Jules Tenney

OK, this is the answer for the first coat of shellac:

http://www.behlen.co.uk/Merchant2/me...Category_Code=

Zinsser Spray Shellac. Any tips on using that?

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## Jim Hilburn

Spray light. Don't try to get a thick build all at once.

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## Jules Tenney

> Spray light. Don't try to get a thick build all at once.


I plan on spraying several light coats until I feel confident it's all sealed, especially around the bindings, and practicing first. I expect to just let a fine mist come down over it a few times, a few seconds each time, but practice will tell me how quickly it sprays.

I'm stunned at what shellac has done to the sample I stained, it almost glows, and the wood has really come alive.

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## Jules Tenney

Tonights dilemna for you finishing fastidiards is this:

Mask the bindings or not? 

I can see pros and cons either way. Putting the masking on seems very tedious. Scraping the bindings also seems very tedious.

Nearly ready to go with the stain now...

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## Dick Hutchings

Scraping the dye off of the binding is easier than masking an F5 in my limited experience. I just haven't found a good way to do the masking yet and it's never perfectly kept out the dye for me so I end up scraping anyway. My last one I didn't mask and it was a lot of work scraping around those stupid scrolls I'm so fond of, got to have. Can't wait to hear some responses from the pros.

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## sunburst

I can scrape them much faster (and better) than I can mask them, but that's just me. I know of at least two who mask bindings successfully.

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## Jules Tenney

I got to say, I think, if faced with stained bindings, I would do a better job of cleaning them up, than if faced with a roll of masking tape, I would properly mask them. It probably won't hurt to try and get at least one good line around some of the tricky bits.

Every job on this mandolin, the scroll has made ten times harder. It's a good job they look so pretty.

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## Jules Tenney

Prayed, and got the stain on. There is a good deal to discuss - but I am not disappointed. I'm not over the moon yet either, but it's going to look OK, when I revisit a few bits. Issues:

The light part of the recurve near the toe: that's the grain not taking the dye: it really stands out. I know the tailpiece will be down there, but however much I trie to darken that area, it jus wouldn't go, and I ended up making the wood just north of there too dark. Couple of other bits where this happend as well - basically anywhere the wood was flat.

Glue. Man, I thought that had all gone. Still, there's not much, but how to touch up those little areas?

Inside the scroll. See earlier issue about glue, and difficulty getting a rag in there.

Finger board support: did not take the stain at all well.

I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the pics. I know the finish will add an awful lot, and the clincher for me with the shellac is the amber hue it has: that's going to liven her up a lot, it did on the samples. It looks a lot better after I lightened up the centre, and scraped a good deal of the bindings (small straight edge excellent binding scraper, real fast).

Thanks for all you help.

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## sunburst

Well, I think I see some sanding scratches still visible anyway, so I'd scrape the glue spots with an X-acto blade (or equivalent) and re-sand the places that need it and stain it again. (Actually, I would have stopped when the glue and scratches showed up and scraped and sanded before proceeding.)
The color difference you see on the top is the result of grain run out in the top wood. If the grain was perfectly straight through the top blank, the chatoyancy wouldn't shift to each side of the center line. There's not really anything you can do about that, though a little air brush touch up can minimize the look. That top grain is actually pretty good, many tops have more run out than that. An air brush is one of the best solutions for getting dye inside the scroll too.

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## Jim Hilburn

Also until you see stain with clear whatever you use on it, it often seems disappointing. But it changes dramatically.
I was in Texas for my Dad's 89th birthday which was on Fathers Day and I tried to log in there but never got it done. But what I wanted to say about taping binding is the lesson I just learned. Even if you aren't planning to tape, at least tape off the binding joints so that stain can't get into them. It's best that those joints be so tight that no stain can get into them but that's not always the case.

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## Jules Tenney

I just picked up  cheap airbrush and a can of propellant so I can touch up round the sides of the top, especially around the bottom bit. That'll be a big improvement, and I take your point about the finish, that did make a huge difference on the samples. I should have bought the airbrush to start with...

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## sunburst

Practice with the airbrush for a while. They tend to 'spit', especially the cheap ones that aren't double action, so you need to learn to control when and where the 'spits' happen.

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## Jim Hilburn

Another thing that's quite common is for that area of the recurve at the tail to come out lighter. When you scrape across the grain instead of with it it just absorbs differently and also it's where the arch bottoms out and has more face grain instead of end grain showing.

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## Dick Hutchings

It's hard to erase those little dark brown spots when they're right in the middle of your sunburst. :Whistling:

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## Jules Tenney

I'll practice of course. The air brush wasn't expensive, £23, and £10 for the canister, but all I really want to do with it is run round the edge of the top, and cover the big grin round the bottom area: you think it'll hide that OK, with the gun set to spray about as wide as that area is? 

There's a couple of other small areas that would benefit as well but basically I don't want to end up getting carried away and messing it up. The sides are OK, good in fact, so I'll mask them off. I was thinking about putting some paper under the masking tape so it doesn't lift any stain from the sides - good idea? I'll be able to get properly into the bit between the neck and the scroll as well - that was a pain with the rag.

Great stuff, thanks again.

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## sunburst

No need to mask the sides for airbrushing the top, unless you just want to. Anyway, masking tape will not lift stain out of the wood.
Airbrushing is best done little by little, at least for me. When touching up stains I like very low pressure and a small spray pattern. I keep going over the area and observe the color building and stop before I think it's done (DAMHIKT) because it can be overdone pretty quickly.
The finish will help even out the color, the tailpiece will cover the center seam and it will look fine, the strings and bridge cover part of the top, it will look better than you think when it's all done.

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## dunwell

> OK, this is the answer for the first coat of shellac:
> 
> http://www.behlen.co.uk/Merchant2/me...Category_Code=
> 
> Zinsser Spray Shellac. Any tips on using that?


Jules referenced this Zinsser spray shellac, and as the kids here on campus say, "I'm just like 'Cool' Dude!" So I scored some from my local Ace Hdwr [by the bye they also have a nice flat black lacquer in a can] and tried it. I had down a nice burst that was Homestead tints with alcohol vehicle with shellac under coat on the top of an F-style. As the under coat it went on nice and left a matt finish that the stains adhered to well. 

However, a word of caution as a top/seal coat. The spray from the can does not have a "fan tip" type nozzle but just a regular rattle can type nozzle and the pressure in the can is a tad high. When I hit the area around the F-holes on the bass side the pressure of the spray moved some of the dark tint and made a sort of "windrow" run looking thing out of the tint. I don't think it was melting the under coat because the yellow and amber tints seem to remain in place, but the brown and black where it was thin and feathered into the amber sort of slushed into a line. Totally obvious and ugly.

So time to wipe the whole thing and try again. Dang! it was a nice burst too. I think that if you stay back a bit more, 6-8 inches, it is probably just fine, the spray is wet and doesn't seem to air-dry enroute. I'm guessing I just got a bit close and move the tint around. I'm so use to using a jamb gun or HVLP that I didn't think about the nozzle pressure. On the back and sides where I was shooting to raw wood there was no problem at all as you would suspect, just on the top where I had done the seal coat and the tints were just lying there on top of it.  So, just a word of warning in case others use this stuff. Oh, and watch for drips from the nozzle. It didn't spit, but it did drip a bit. Not usually a problem if you hold the work in front of you rather than below the can.

FWIW,
Alan D.

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## Jules Tenney

Now we're talking:



You can still see the light bit, but it looks a lot more like the mandolin in my head now! I got through a whole can of propellant doing that, so it's soon worth getting a compressor.

Thanks for the tips on the spray shellac. I'd already worked out that that stuff very soon starts to run. Gonna do several very light coats and let them dry. I take it from myresearch that the seal coat doesn't need to be flat particularly, just seal the dye. Any bumps will come out later during the FP, is that right?

Man am I glad I got that airbrush.

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## Jim Rowland

Looks like you're doing OK,Jules. You will likely get a pleasant surprise when you scrape that binding. Everything seems to light up at that juncture.
Jim

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## Jules Tenney

Now I've got an airbrush, you think I should spray the first coat of shellac with that rather than the can?

Can I thin 2lb cut shellac with more alcohol to 50:50 to make a 1lb cut? I assume so... I have a big old whiskey bottle full of 500ml alcohol (meths in the UK), 112.5 grams of blonde de-waxed shellac flakes and 12.5 grams of sandarac. I left the last tiny drop of whiskey in there too. Does that sound like a good FP recipe to you?

I am probably naively hoping that I'll get to grips with the french polish quite quickly, and all will go smoothly once the dye is sealed. No doubt I will have further questions.

Thanks for sticking with this thread, the help's been tremendous. Hopefully it will be a complete kit builder's guide to finishing when it's all done. That's a resource that just does not exist in one place. It would be great to have a complete step by step guide, with clear explanation of the steps and the various options with dyes, their application and the final finishing process itself online somewhere. Something that picks up where the MacCrostie video leaves off, with the rather understated '...now fine sand the mandolin, and finish it to your taste...'.

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## Jules Tenney

Do you spray the sealer THEN scrape the bidings? Or other way around?

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## sunburst

I seal, then scrape. I only spray a very thin layer or two of shellac, just enough to seal the stain in place so it doesn't smear around during the scraping process. Too thick with the shellac, and/or too long drying, and it can chip along the edge of the binding from the blade used for scraping.

Years ago, when my favorite dyes were available, I didn't seal before scraping. I could get the look I wanted with no airbrush work, and the dyes did not smear, so I could scrape then seal. That helped the bindings fill level easier during the finish process.

Oh, as for shellac, I mix mine without measuring, making it pretty darned concentrated, then thin with alcohol to the viscosity I want. In other words, I treat it a lot like lacquer.

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## Jules Tenney

Got the bindings scraped and it looks brilliant, better than I ever hoped it might with the first clear coat on.

When french polishing do you do each surface in different sessions, or do the whole thing at once? I am thinking you must have different sessions for the top and the back, with - what - at least a few hours between them? I think I could probably do the back, sides and neck in one session, the top in another.

A few questions on masking during finishing: 

I had the fingerboard bindings masked whilst I sprayed. When I apply the finish, do I apply it over those bindings (I assume so). I assume also that I keep any finish clear of the thin edge of binding next to the fingerboard?

Is it better to keep the f-hole blocked up whilst polishing, or to remove the balloons and cardboard? I'd hate the cardboard to end up stuck to the finish in the holes and pull it off. In fact, do you finish around the edges of the f-holes or just keep to the surface of the top?

Peghead: I am assuming I finish over the peghead and inlay?

To finish the nut or not?

Thanks again.

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## Jules Tenney

Here we are with the bindings scraped: it looks fantastic, better than I ever thought it might. I am hoisting a beer for everyone who has helped so far: have a great weekend.

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## Dale Ludewig

That looks great.  You should be very happy.   :Smile:

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## Jules Tenney

It's all going well so far,except for one problem: whilst french polishing, the stain is bleeding on to the bindings. I expected that with the first coat on top of the sealer, which is where I've got to. No big problem, I cleaned them up (again) but I could do without having to do this each coat, eventually I guess it will start to become diffficult to get a nice finish across from the wood onto the binding.

Does this settle down as I get a good sealed coat of shellac on, or are there tactics to emply?

Also, what do you use to get into the fiddly bits? I need to spend a bit of time around the fingerboard on the top, and around the heel on the back before I go too much further?

Thanks.

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## r.riley77

Jules, how did that inexpensive airbrush work.  Did you get a lot of spitting or did it work ok? I'm thinking about building my first mandolin soon, and I'm looking at all the different finishing options.

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## ColdBeerGoCubs

Oh dear lord theres a banjo in that picture. 

Nice work, The back on that thing is looking stellar.

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## Jules Tenney

OK, the French Polish golden rule: too little cannot mess you up. Too much can really mess you up. I had to sand off the back, and restain it after starting to pull up the polish and messing up the stain underneath. I ended up chasing a small patch of bare wood down the back from the heel. Ghhaaa. I think the pad got too wet. Also, some polishing sessions seem to go just fine, and others just do not seem to get going properly. I can't figure out why.

It looks just as good now - and I got rid of the glue blob, and the scratches.

I have small cloudy patches on the top in the polish, and am finding it very difficult to get a good coverage around the fingerboard extension. A good deal of the cloud disappeared aftera vigorous rub with the pad with just alcohol on it. I'm hoping the rest might eventually disappear as well - any advice?

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## Jules Tenney

> Jules, how did that inexpensive airbrush work.  Did you get a lot of spitting or did it work ok? I'm thinking about building my first mandolin soon, and I'm looking at all the different finishing options.


It worked fine. I figured it would work OK the first time, and if I only use it once, then it's done what I needed it to do. I cleaned it all out pretty good afterwards, and there are diagrams to help you strip it and re-build it if you want a proper clean. It did not spit at all - I tested it quite a bit before hitting the mando with it - you need to get a feel for the trigger. If you're getting aerosol propellant get at least two cans, and always have a spare: it doesn't last too long: one can lasted me about an hour maybe. You only need to buy six cans for it to be worthwhile getting a small compressor, and if you're spraying the whole thing, you might get through 3 or 4 cans, especially once you've got a spare on hand, and you do two or three spraying sessions.

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## Dale Ludewig

Hey Jules-
You're learning some important things.  Relax.  I've often learned the hard way and often continue to do so:  sometimes it's good to take a deep breath and walk away and come back tomorrow.  The finish process can drive you nuts.

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## dunwell

Update on the Zinsser spray can of shellac:
As I mentioned earlier in this thread I was using this to do the prep coat to the top before shooting color. So I though I'd also use it for spraying the final light seal coat after the color coats were on. NOT recommended. 

Initially the can was OK but as it got used up a bit it started to do some spitting. I cleaned the nozzle with alcohol and that seemed to help. But finally it started doing the random spitting even when the nozzle is clean. I'm guessing this is some problem with the propellent. Naturally it spit all over my final perfect burst so it had to be wiped and re blown. Grrrrrrr!!

So maybe this stuff is OK for doing the prep coats and other tasks but not for final top coats. 
Alan D.

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## toddjoles

Dunwell, there is nothing worse than having all your hard work ruined from a rattlecan spitting. I've found it pretty normal for the last 1/3rd of rattlecan can to spit.  It may be from the tip or from a glob of material, I'm not sure which.  Changing the tips doesnt seem to  help much.  I've learned that when topcoating to put the can aside and grab a fresh can when it reaches 1/3rd.  I save the partial cans for use on lesser projects and always keep the tips in a jar of lacquer thinner.

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## dunwell

Thanks for the data Todd, good to know it wasn't just the one can but a generic issue with the cans. Kind of my own fault too for being lazy  :Redface: , I've got a compressor and various guns, I should just fill my jamb gun with  1-lb cut and mist it with that. That is my plan as soon as the new color has dried out well today.

Alan D.

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## Jules Tenney

I didn't get the sealer coat anywhere near smooth enough to even think about trying to do it on top of a finish, but I'm not sure what further work after spraying that top coat you anticipated? I did put quite a bit more on the back after sanding off the first attempt, and that has led to a whole load more work with the french polishing to get a smooth even coat: there's a lot more orange peel in there than on the top, where the sealer coat was very light. On the other hand, the stain has not bled onto the bindings. I'd still go very light with it as a sealer.

Also, for the archives, it is more humid tonight, and the FP was not going on as smoothly as it has done on other occasions. I don't know if there's anything in that.

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## dunwell

Hey Jules, I was just trying to fix the color coats with a very light spray of the shellac. I really should do this with my real spray rig, not with the caned spray, it isn't good enough for that. This is just enough that I can handle it to do the binding scraping.

In the past I've just shot lacquer to it all but lacquer on the top has its own problems. I'm switching to doing a build coat(s) of shellac on the top followed by FP of shellac looking for a final finish in the 0.005" (0.0127cm) range. So my plan is to just shoot some build coats of shellac to the top after I've scraped the binging clean and done the back and sides in lacquer. Then follow that with the FP to the top to get a bit of gloss to it. We'll see. And yeah, raining here right now so no FP for the time being. I mean, what's with this moisture here in Colorado in the US of A! I mean, the  humidity is waaaaay up there in the double digits! :Laughing: 

Alan D.

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## sunburst

> ...I mean, the  humidity is waaaaay up there in the double digits!...


 :Whistling:  
(A comment from central Virginia...)

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## Jim Hilburn

Alan's right, it's like Ireland around here right now, just not HOT and humid. 70% in my shop. 
By the way, anyone going to Dublin anytime soon who would like to carry an extra mando?

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## sunburst

Actually, according to the weather channel, the humidity here right now is only 47%, but that's mostly because it's 95 degrees and climbing. (It's the kind of weather that makes you appreciate running water... The AC and dehumidifier are working their butts off in the shop.)

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## Jim Hilburn

De-humidification has never been an issue...till now.

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## Jill McAuley

> Alan's right, it's like Ireland around here right now, just not HOT and humid. 70% in my shop. 
> By the way, anyone going to Dublin anytime soon who would like to carry an extra mando?


Jim,
You might widen your request to see if anyone's traveling to the UK - if it's possible for the mando's new owner to hop over to England/Wales to meet someone I'd say they'd not have a problem carrying it back home from there. There's a Cafe member who posted recently asking about shops in the UK because he's traveling to London/Wales soon (AlanN? He posted over in General Mandolin Discussions, probably buried under more recent threads now but it was only a few days ago that posted)

Cheers,
Jill

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## Jules Tenney

> looking for a final finish in the 0.005" (0.0127cm) range.


How do you measure that? Is that thin or thick? What's considered too thick?

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## sunburst

Don't worry about any of that yet.

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## Jules Tenney

LOL. I'm not. But when I build the $25000 mandolin I'm going to start on next, it might be a consideration! 

It had never occurred to me you'd be fussy about the thickness of your finish, other than to get it as good as possible with as little as possible. THere's always something to learn here.

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## sunburst

Enough to protect and look finished, and no more. It takes skill and experience to apply a good looking, minimal finish, so there is a tendency to apply thick finishes in an effort to avoid problems with sanding through and/or buffing through. Some types of finish can be thinner than others, but around .005" to .006" is a common thickness goal for instruments in general.

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## dunwell

> How do you measure that? Is that thin or thick? What's considered too thick?


Not to worry on that, pretty much any finish you do  on your first instruments will be good. I'm obsessing here a bit. For a french polish 5-Thou is probably a bit thick when you talk about a classical guitar, but still well within a good range for protection since shellac is softer than some other finishes.

With lacquer I do get very fussy since to my ear, especially on a large top like guitar, you can damp the sound with too much finish. There I try to keep it between 0.005-0.007". 

The way I measure is just a bit crude. To be exact you would use something like a Hacklinger Gauge, but those are quite expensive. What I do is, after I have the top all sanded and prepped and ready for the first seal coat, I reach a vernier caliper inside one of the F-holes and measure the top thickness, write this down on your build record. You do keep a build record don't you? :Whistling:  I do this measurement lightly so as not to mar the wood. Write down which F-hole and where you do this so that you can do follow-on measurements in the same place. 

An additional or alternative way is to do all your finishing with the F-holes stopped with a balloon or a hard piece of paper. Then when all done, flake off a piece of the finish build-up and measure that. Both get you with a thou or so and that is all you really need. What you are trying to avoid is getting on a really heavy finish of 15 thou or more.

When shooting lacquer I usually build to around 0.009 so I have some to sand back for leveling. With FP you are building as you do the polish so you can just measure as you go. 

Blah, blah, blah.... you get the idea.

Alan (long winded) D.

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## Jules Tenney

Hiya,

Just a quick update: it's progressing well. Few bits and peices to sort out in the finish, but it's getting there:

----------


## Jules Tenney

Sorry, I forgot one:

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## Jules Tenney

and just for fun:

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~cczjrt/polish.swf

I wish that did take six seconds, rather than six weeks!

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## dunwell

In reference to Jules earlier reference to FP and running through with a wet fad.

I'm wondering if maybe after the color goes on if shooting a layer of vinyl sealer to the stain would help with that. "In theory" the VS, being more of a lacquer product, should lock out any later alcohol solvents when doing the FP.

Has anyone done this sort of thing? I've just shot lacquer to the back/sides and want to FP the top on a couple, something I haven't done before. I've done FP, just not to stained mando. Any ideas/comments/flames appreciated.  :Whistling: 

Alan D.

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## Jules Tenney

ta-da!

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## Steve Sorensen

Nice 'burst!
Steve

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## Ed Goist

Beautiful, Jules!
I REALLY like that stain. Great combination of colors. Also, I love how there is no clear line of demarcation between the colors in the stain (no "bulls eye effect"), and how the darkest part of the stain still isn't so dark as to lack identification as a color (not just black).
*Fantastic!*

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## Dale Ludewig

Beautiful.

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## amowry

Looks like it came out great! Nice work.

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## Tavy

> ta-da!


Really nice work Jules!

Now you get to play her to death :-)

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## JeffLearman

> Is this it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NP


At the end, what's he spraying?

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