# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  considering quitting the mandolin

## kevbuch

I love the mandolin and have been having a blast but mine is just so crummy.. it's a jbp with the laminate kind of peeling, a bent inward bridge and I can't get it to sound good. I'm kind of obsessive compulsive about these things and I really cant play without thinking of how everybody else sounds so great. I went to a jam session and  felt like my playing  was like nails on a chalkboard compared to everybody else. With my budget it will take a long long time to save up for a cheap Kentucky and I will have to give up tv and basically everything other than practicing for like year. I can't do that because I already spend so much time just sleeping or staring at the ceiling. I'm considering just giving up because I can't play for or with others like this. What do you guys think?

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## Bertram Henze

Music has been good to you so far. It won't give up on you if you don't give up on it. Something will turn up sooner or later.
Never curse an uncomfortable situation - it's always there to teach you something, and you'll find out what.

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akjed, 

Bill Clements, 

Bob Clark, 

Cue Zephyr, 

Darren Bailey, 

G7MOF, 

George R. Lane, 

hank, 

JEStanek, 

Jim Adwell, 

Mike Sutterfield, 

Pasha Alden, 

TheArimathean, 

vegas

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## Petrus

I don't know how long you've been playing but maybe you're not ready to jam just yet. I've only been playing a couple of years casually and no way would I feel comfortable jamming in a "real" group.  Play to satisfy yourself first and foremost.  Play with non-musician friends once in a while but make sure you're the only one there with an instrument.  If you can play one note you can play another one.  There's always someone who's better than you musically, but you can always improve yourself day by day. Be your own benchmark.  Play in the experimental genre, where no one can judge you because there is no standard. 

You're welcome to join my notional band, Zero Fret and the F Holes.  We cheer up the patients at St. Elsewhere.   :Cool: 

Edit: Look up Daniel Johnston, Jandek, and Wesley Willis on YouTube. My latest musical heroes!

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Bertram Henze, 

Bob Clark, 

Cue Zephyr, 

George R. Lane, 

hank, 

ides1056, 

Pasha Alden

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## roysboy

Maybe mandolin just isn't for you . It does take a commitment... Financial and time wise .... No way around that. Sounds like you've given it a shot , at least. Playing an instrument isn't a life and death thing . Let it go...move on.... Do something you CAN commit to. No big deal .

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## delsbrother

Put a chord chart on the ceiling.

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akjed, 

Cue Zephyr, 

Douglas McMullin, 

G7MOF, 

houseworker, 

Loretta Callahan, 

Mike Sutterfield, 

Roin

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## Tom Coletti

It's completely understandable if you dont think that the mandolin is for you, but remember that your difficulties are not a sign of failure; everyone has been in that position, and indeed, a lot of them still are. I hit road blocks and limitations all the time. Everyone starts with inexperience, lack of resources, frustration, doubt, and so on. Learning to play an instrument is a daunting, time-consuming endeavor, and it will take a while to get a feel for it, but if you're willing to practice, then you can do it. It'll take a lot of hard work, but if you can find people to experience music with, then you won't be alone in the struggle. And for the OCD/fear of incompetence, just let things happen. Don't be afraid to mess up at a jam. I believe that a famous painter once said that "we don't make mistakes, we just have happy accidents."

Instrument-wise... Have you talked with Dan at Grand Central Music? He usually carries some Kentucky A's; maybe you can work out a trade-in deal. He also occasionally carries other similar models. If either of those fail, then eBay would be a great shot at getting a good used Kentucky, sometimes for less than $100 if you're lucky/diligent. Even as the owner of a Breedlove, I've really liked the playability and tone of the Kentucky A's.

--Tom

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Roin

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## Ray(T)

Do you drink, smoke, drive a car or have any other expensive passtimes?

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## dang

I found a blue Washburn oval hole mandolin (laminate) at a local music store for $150 and was shocked at how good it sounded.  No, not a Weber or Collings but it was certainly playable after some minor setup by myself.  Had it been my starter mandolin (instead of the junk I got) I would have put many more hours in before upgrading.  Though some of us here that argue you need to spend $XXXX to get an entry level mandolin, in truth it is your time spent practicing that determines how good you sound.

It sounds to me like you need to be resourceful and find a functional bridge _on a budget_.  Learn how to fit it to the top.  Learn the basics of setup so you can get the most out of your current instrument.  Understand what bridge compensation, neck relief, string height, well cut nut and bridge slots contribute to playing easily and in tune across the fretboard.  Many of us here learned that way on our starter mandolins, doing the work ourselves because there is no one around who knows anything about the mandolin.  

Then after YEARS of practicing and saving up you get to buy an instrument that you wouldn't dream of trying to set up yourself because it is such a piece of beauty.  And you get to rejoice in the ability you have worked so hard at, and are thankful to play such a fine instrument.

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AubreyK, 

Jim

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## Petrus

Inspirational quotes from W.A. Mathieu, _The Listening Book: Discovering Your Own Music_.

Music is everyone's birthright, and everyone who wants to can claim it. There will always be someone more musical than you, but there is always more music in you to uncover.

Anythinig that requires uninterrupted consciousness seems like work. When we are actually practicing consciousness, like meditation or music, it feels like good work that does itself. But when we are inactive, there is an anxiety around it; inertia is our defense.

Whether or not you actually practice, spend some time hanging out with your resistance.

Technique is rarely your limit. The weak link is the ear. What is truly needed is to hear more deeply and to know more precisely where you are on the coordinates of musical space and time.

When you can play what you hear, you will know naturally what technique to practice, and you will want to.

There's not much to learn and it takes forever.

A musician can spend a lifetime learning five notes and still not know everything in them. The more masterful you become, the deeper becomes the mystery and the more you are a beginner.

A few of my own:

_Never play with anyone better than you.

If you make a mistake, repeat it.  Now it's a style._

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AubreyK, 

ides1056, 

kevbuch, 

Roin, 

tangleweeds

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## mrmando

I dunno, I kind of wanna be the worst musician in the room, so I can be challenged by and learn from those around me. 

kevbuch, where are you located? Maybe you can't afford a new mandolin, but if you can save enough for a setup job it might make a difference. Knowing a little about your circumstances from your previous posts, I want to encourage you not to quit. I just looked in my bag of spare parts and there are four bridges in there; I can send you one of them for your mandolin, although you will still have to either get someone to fit it for you or get some sandpaper and fit it yourself.

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AubreyK, 

Jim, 

kevbuch, 

Mike Sutterfield, 

Pasha Alden, 

pheffernan

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## UsuallyPickin

Any new endeavor takes awhile to get off the ground. There is always a learning curve that requires patience and effort to surmount. Having poor tools is a one  of the many pitfalls to be crossed. If you truly love to play , you will play, and you will  figure out a way to acquire what you need to play better . Be that lessons , a new instrument , better practice habits or the right jam. More than anything though is just the refusal to give up. Learning fiddle is even worse, trust me. Just to make a pleasant sound on a simple melody with one takes years. I'm on year thirteen now and like to fiddle. I had to make myself practice  at first because it was noise not music. Keep at it ... in time you will be glad you did..... R/

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## belbein

> . I'm kind of obsessive compulsive about these things and I really cant play without thinking of how everybody else sounds so great


Giving up the TV isn't such a bad idea, actually.  TV just reinforces our feelings of inferiority.  

If you're really serious about this post--and I can't tell if it's not a put on--then this sentence is the problem.  Some people are always going to be better, no matter how good you get.  And some jams are going to have people who make a habit of looking down on others no matter how good they are.  So if you can't get over this, you should quit, but then you'll have to quit every other thing you do with people, because it's the same in golf, tennis, writing, gardening, lawyering, whatever.  

If you want to get over it, you'll have to change the self-talk you're punishing yourself with, and that means therapy, or meditation, or programming your thoughts with affirmations ... but any way you slice it, no mandolin is going to fix this issue.

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Tom Haywood

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## Bertram Henze

> If you're really serious about this post--and I can't tell if it's not a put on--then this sentence is the problem.  Some people are always going to be better, no matter how good you get.


This is exactly one of the things I meant by "teaching you something" - do not run away from it, face it and make peace with it. Then you'll be winning what money can't buy. Music and instruments are not supposed to be a protective shield against human encounters - they are for enforcing such encounters, and we all desperately need that, if we like it or not.

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## pheffernan

> Knowing a little about your circumstances from your previous posts, I want to encourage you not to quit.


I have similar thoughts. It seemed like you had such a positive initial experience of the mandolin, as so many of us have, that your thoughts jumped from the beater you've started on to possibilities in the $1000-$1500 range. In the process, I think you bypassed the intermediate level of instruments, which is where I'd urge you to turn your sights. If you could afford the $60 in monthly payments for The Mandolin Store, as you were projecting, then you are only five months away from saving up enough for a Kentucky 150 like this one: http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=8697. Or perhaps a helpful relative, like your supportive grandfather I believe, could loan you the money to acquire the mandolin now and allow you to pay him back. Either way, don't let your frustration with your current instrument turn you off of the mandolin entirely.

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## Beanzy

I think it's been way too short a time playing for you to jack it in. 
You're already playing next to others within a few months, that's a heck of an achievement. 
I owned my mandolin about 14 months before I dared go out and jam with people. I sounded rubbish for a long while and choked up any tone I may have been capable of by being intimidated by everyone elses ability. Then I got talking to them and realised most had been at this kind of stuff since I was in daipers. I carried on turning up and resolved to carry on.

From reading your previouis posts I reckon you've already got a stack of hurdles out of your way and by the sounds of things you just leaped over another one. 
You're listening to how others sound in relation to you. Yes you don't like the difference at the moment, but you've not given it the time to bed-in yet. Many people attend jams and never really get that listening thing going at all. Don't rush it, there's no way the skills will be there yet to pull your best tone out of the instrument you have. But now you're hearing where you want to be and it's frustrating that you can't just do it.
Rather than being frustrated with what is really pretty rapid progress already, set aside a short time to talk to the people whos sound you would like to achieve. Ask them what they think makes it work for them. Remember they've taken until now to get as good as they are, maybe find out how long that is.

I'd say just take it steady and allow a year to see just what tone you can pull out of the mandolin you have.
This music playing and learning is a life long-path but we take many steps on it. 
The jams and playing with others is like the dance at the crossroads where you celebrate what you can do together.
If your shoes (instrument) are a bit cheap or tatty you can still step along the path to the crossroads, you can still skip out a jig or two with the others. By the time that instrument is completely clapped out you'll be able to make it sound a million bucks anyway.

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## AlanN

The goal is to be inspired by the better players, not intimidated by them.

And a well-playing mandolin is a necessity.

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## Matt DeBlass

There will always be better players, and the way I look at it is I learn from watching them. A nicer instrument helps, but as long as the notes are in the right places, plunking away at an inferior instrument still prepares you for the day you can get a better one. I understand it's tough and finances can be a problem (I just lost a job myself) but I've always found that music helps keep me together during the tough times. 
On the other hand, if you're feeling frustrated, maybe you need a break. Sometimes a week off from playing is just what the doctor ordered. I don't know man, but out of all the reasons to give up on playing "I'm not good enough yet" shouldn't be one of them.

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## Petrus

Some of them old-timer players made legendary work with instruments they bought from a Sears Roebuck catalog, recording in one of those old booths where you'd put a quarter in the machine and make a record directly onto a wax disc.  The thought of spending what would've amounted to more than a year's pay for an instrument would have left them aghast and incredulous.

Django Reinhardt once played a whole set on a toy guitar, borrowed from a local circus clown, because he had forgotten his instrument in his wagon the night before during a drunken debauch. His fingers were cut up and bloody by the end of the set, but those present report he played wonderfully.  He never took very good care of his instrument either, carrying it around wrapped in newspaper and making adjustments to the bridge by sticking torn pieces of matchbooks under it.

This was also a guy who was a hotshot as a teenager, already on his way up, when one night he fell asleep with a lit cigarette in his gypsy caravan and nearly burned to death. Several of the fingers on his fretting hand were ruined and immobile forever after, and he spent a tortuous couple of years literally re-learning how to play from scratch with this permanent fretting limitation. He learned how to make the sound he wanted with only his left thumb and two fingers, and went on to achieve his greatest success after that.  You'd think that woulda been enough to get most folks to quit.

Not everyone has to be a virtuoso (and sorry that that's a guitar story, but I don't have a similar mandolin story at hand) but I still find it inspiring to think about any time I feel like quittin'.

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## fatt-dad

music is another language.  Baby's don't do well in universities.  Babel on with your noodling and care not about others.  Tackle a few scales, maybe a fiddle tune or so.  Play slow, correct the wrong notes.  Do it when watching football, basketball or any reality show!  Heck, any/all commercials are ripe for a few dozen notes.

When learning it's an easy foil to claim others are better.  O.K. They're better.  Who cares?

Somewhere I learned a quote, "I don't sing because I'm happy.  I'm happy because I sing."  Music does that.

f-d

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Matt DeBlass, 

Steve Zawacki

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## Bob Clark

Hi Kevbuch,

I assume that we all go through times when we are really into our playing, and other times when we are less into it.  During those down times, it is important to remember that the up times exist and are meaningful to you.  That will help you to persevere and ultimately, become a better player.  You have a distinct advantage in that regard; you have the thread you began a short while back in which you told us very sincerely how much your music means to you, and how it has improved your life.  Go re-read what you wrote then and how we responded.  That was real, not that this is any less real, but please use those words of yours to keep you going now.  We really want to see you succeed.  You can do it.  The joy will return.

I wish you all the best,

Bob

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## bmac

Although you don't give your age or the brand of your instrument you sound like a teenager sitting around waiting for life to happen.... The news is, "It ain't going to."  You haven't even explored your mandolin yet... The bridge and its straighntess is *your responsibility* just as much as tuning your own instrument is, as well as replacing strings and glueing back separating plywood. Bridges are cheap, as is Elmers Glue.

A cheap mando is not an excuse for bad playing. The only excuse for bad playing is tone deafness. But it is not the instruments fault. 

So I suggest you give up and throw away your instrument... Maybe in five or six years you will be mature enough to see something like this through, but presently you probably should just sit and watch the tube.  Remember: There is always a home for you in your parents' basement.

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## Steve Zawacki

If the issue is that your mandolin has worn out and the budget isn't ready for a $300 new one, the logical alternative is get what you can afford.  A new Rover RM-50 set-up and delivered runs between $150-170, a Rover RM-35 at around $100, and a Rogue 100 is less than $50 at the big-box stores.  It's all a matter of desire - do you want to play the mandolin or not?  If you do, then you do what is the first rule of anything - never buy above your ability to pay; followed by rule #2 - make the most of what you have.

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## jaycat

I don't see anything wrong with staring at the ceiling. I spend a of time just looking out the window. It's called "meditation."

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## Shelagh Moore

If you like it, stick with it. It'll come good.

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## multidon

You say you love the mandolin. If that statement is true but you must fo it on the cheap I recommend getting a Rogue from Musicians Friend for 50 bucks and then ask Rob Meldrum for his free e book on doing your own set up. It wont be set up out of the box but maybe the only thing that will be truly necessary is to adjust the bridge height. Invest in a set of 5 dollar feeler gauges from your local auto parts store to check action at the bridge and the nut. If thats too much do like the old timers did and use a dime for the nut and a nickel for the 12 th fret. It will be plywood but it will sound like a mandolin and play as well as anything else if properly set up. As far as jams try to talk to some of the people there and find out if there is a slow jam anywhere near you. Slow jams are just like they sound like. Usually half tempo for beginners. If you have trouble with that speed listen watch and learn. Be like a sponge and soak up whatever you can. I hope you are joking about not having time to practice because of staring at the ceiling. Remember if something is worth doing it is worth putting time and effort into it.

I am a retired music teacher. Been playing music for almost 50 years. And I still dont know everything and I still feel inadequate about my playing sometimes. To me thats what makes music interesting. Its impossible for there not to be something new to learn. You have given it what 2 months?

There is a social group here on the Cafe' called Cheap Mandolins I think where people actually revel in and celebrate the cheapos. They often discuss ways to make them better. You should check it out maybe join the group and participate. Tell those folks exactly whats wrong with that cheapo of yours and they might help you out.

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## George R. Lane

You have many Café friends giving you quite detailed reasons for not giving up. I would suggest you ask yourself 'Will my life be better or worse without my music'? I hope you keep at it, I know it has made a tremendous positive impact on my life as well as my family.

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## Ken Olmstead

Hand your current mandolin to an experienced player and listen to it played by someone that has some skillage. You will likely discover that the machine itself sounds much better to you. If so, that means all you need is time to sound better and it sounds like you have plenty of that. My skills on fretted instruments was primarily developed in front of the TV. I practice a new arpeggio or scale shape or whatever, get it under my fingers a bit and play it a bunch while watching Star Trek or something.

I would encourage you to keep at it. Perhaps save some $ for a setup and new strings. Times change, and while you may not envision yourself buying a better mandolin now, in a couple of years you will probably be posting yet another "Best F Model for under $1,000!"  :Smile:  Of course we will tell you to buy an A model!  :Smile:

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kevbuch

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## Canoedad

A bowed in bridge is awful to play.  Someone here recently advised someone in that situation (maybe it was you) to cut the bridge slots deeper for the outside courses.  Made sense to me. 

Hang in there.

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## Jim Garber

Aside from your concerns with your mandolin (addressed well by others above) I would recommend getting together with a few friends who also play music at your level to work (and play) on tunes/songs you all like. Even one person would be great. Music should not be a competition and jam sessions even at best are not the best places to hear yourself or what others are playing. I know you are on a serious budget but fixing up some of the weaknesses of your current mandolin you may also want to save a little for a lesson with a good teacher. There are ways to get what you want.

BTW I assume that you would have to give up TV to work to get the money you would need for the Kentucky?

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## Freddyfingers

I picked up the mandolin back in the early 90's.  A cheap epiphone at the time.  ABout 150.  Thats what I still have today.  I can honestly tell you , that up until the past year, I approached the instrument the wrong way.  For the first few months o had it, I played it everyday.  It got confusing, and I got frustrated, and no one in the band wanted to hear it.  So I put it down.  Over the years I would pick it up occasionally, but I still had my bad habits.  Last year, out of no where, I heard a tenor guitar.  I liked the sound, but thought it was too confusing to play.  I then read on this forum, that its tuned like a mandolin, and like a tenor banjo, which is also in the closet.  I took out my banjo and was shocked that I could play it, at least some chords.  I got the tenor eventually, and that led me back to the mandolin.  I now play it religiously.  I am not one to be shy in front of a crowd, and have already taken my mando to jams.    The point where is not that I am amazing, for I am far from it, but that you never know when inspiration will hit you, or how.  Even though I shelved the mandolin for years, it came back to me full force, because in the mean time, I practiced my other instrument, guitar.   HAd you asked me a little over a year ago if I would be playing in jams and bands with a mandolin, I would have laughed.  But here I am.  You never know how or when it will hit, but if you keep at it, and get rid of the "I cant do it" attitude, you will over come!

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ides1056

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## Pasha Alden

Hi Kevbuch!   In life I've learnt nothing worthwhile comes all that easy! 

From your circumstances I can see there are some challenges.  
Talking about challenges:
 I am a visually impaired mandolinist who learned to play and held a mandolin for the first time on 15 December 2012.   There are no teachers nearby, no music in braille.   and despite having the blessing of having played guitar and fortunately having perfect pitch, with no method books or music in braille I am moving slower than I'd like.  
Giving up? Me?    
Uh uh?  That concept is a non existent one in my vocab!
A further challenge:
There are very few good mandolins here in SA, so I often did not like the way I sounded when I heard video clips by other mando players from the café.   I constantly thought: "I will never be like that." 
"Never, ever sound like them."  
So not in a spirit of arrogance or being condescending, I encourage you to try and try again!
don't give up!
There are many a challenge and nothing worthwhile in life comes that easy.   Yep, most in the US and UK are better mandolinists than I am.   But I am already playing live and tomorrow for the first time at a more formal function and playing for our senior citizens soon.   Yep it's not Carnegie hall, not with Chris Thile or Mike Marshall, but I am having huge fun!   It may be that you need a friend from the mando café to assist you a little.   I had them assist me out of the US and UK.   So? what do you have to lose by staying and trying a bit longer? <big smile> 

Sometimes the most worthwhile thing seems so difficult, but in the end it turns out as one of the most healing things we have chosen.  
My mandolin journey started on a humble ovation Crafter, with a neck like a guitar.   It sounded OK, not nearly as beautiful as all the Gibsons.   Today I have the Crafter still and the Jbovier.  I will not be able to function without my mandolins and they have enriched my life.   

Apologies to all for the rambling.  In conclusion I quote  Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush:
"Don't give up; Because you have friends"

Please feel free to pm me and I will be so glad to assist what little I may.
As we translate an Afrikaans expression "Sterkte" poorly translated "strength to you"   Directly translated when we are being jocular with each other in SA: "Strongs"
So "strongs" to you!

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Bob Clark, 

ides1056, 

Jim, 

Jon Hall, 

mandogerry, 

Mike Arakelian, 

Peter Kurtze, 

swain

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## Alex Orr

I'd suggest just giving up TV and staring at the ceiling in general.  Maybe I'm missing something but I'd rather be practicing mandolin (or playing with other folks) than doing either of those things.  

Low-end Kentuckys start around $150 or less used on eBay.  The top will not peel off of them.  I don't make very much money either, but even by my paycheck-to-paycheck reality, saving a $150 over the course of a few months is an attainable goal.  You can buy Epiphone mandolins for less than a $100 used on eBay and though it won't be a Dudenbostel, the top won't peel off and the bridge won't collapse.  I spent four years saving up for the Brentrup I own, so sometimes you just have to accept that you are not going to own a high-end mandolin from day one.  Furthermore, if your biggest reason for no longer wanting to play mandolin is that you can't afford a high-end mandolin, then maybe you should question how much you care about playing the instrument versus how much you care about owning a nice mandolin.

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## Tobin

I hope this doesn't sound rude, but why did you even post this thread?  If you're going to quit, then quit and be done with it.  Why announce it to the world?  Were you looking for inspiration or encouragement?  Were you hoping people would talk you out of quitting?

I hope the answer to the last two questions is yes.  Others here have tried to provide that.  But at the end of the day, if people are having to give you external validation in order to keep you playing, you're not going to make it.  It's as simple as that.  To learn the mandolin (or to do anything worthwhile in life, for that matter), you have to want it on your own.  You can't rely on others to prop you up every time you feel like throwing in the towel.

So do you want to play the mandolin?  REALLY want to play it?

You say you love it, and you enjoy it.  OK, that's a good first step.  Take that and build on it.  If you have a cheap crummy instrument that disappoints you, that's only a temporary setback.  It shouldn't kill the desire to learn or play the mandolin.  There are numerous topics on this board that can show you how to tweak your mandolin and make it playable.  It's not going to be a high-end instrument, and it's not going to sound like others who do have high-end instruments.  But if you REALLY want to play, you'll have to develop the playing skills and do the grunt work to not only make that instrument playable, but to _be able to play it_.  I suspect you're having the same disappointment that many, many beginners have: your technical playing skill is pretty rough, and you're blaming the instrument.  This isn't to say that your instrument isn't part of the problem, but I'll bet it's only a minor part.

And as others have said, if you REALLY want to play, you're going to have to sacrifice other things in your life.  I'd gladly give up my television if I had to, in order to afford a decent mandolin.  Matter of fact, I did give up something I love in order to afford it.  I sold my Harley.  What sacrifice are _you_ willing to make to pursue something that you claim you enjoy?  

These are tough words, but it comes down to this: If you really can't be bothered to put in the time practicing, and would rather watch the boob tube or stare at the ceiling, then you don't have it within you to master this instrument.  If you can't be bothered to adjust your budget to afford a playable mandolin, or put in the hand-work on your existing mandolin to make it playable, then you don't have it within you to master this instrument. 

Everyone here wants to help you.  But you have to help yourself first.  No one can do it for you, and whining that you want to quit is not going to solve anything.  Most of us started on instruments that were awful, and most of us had to pinch pennies and work hard to afford better quality.  We did not let that hold us back from playing and practicing to improve our skills.  If you want to be a mandolin player, you have to pay those same dues.

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fatt-dad, 

mandocrucian, 

swain

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## Mike Sutterfield

If you truly have music in your soul you will not be able to quit. You might take a break but you'll be back. I think we've all been frustrated about our ability and our instruments, but the passion to create melody runs deeper than any frustration I've felt. Now that being said, I don't always feel better right away. I think we all get in a rut from time to time. Just hang in there man. As far as your instrument goes; I can see the financials being a problem. Good mandolins are expensive when compared to other instruments of quality. It might take time but the right one will come along for ya.  When you feel like giving up come visit the forum, we are all here to support each other and our shared passion.

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## ides1056

I am glad this thread was started. 
I figure I have thirty years left, and sometime before then I will be able to play well enough to improvise on the beauty of life on my mandolin. 
Many things have come to me easily, but not the mandolin. It takes lots of time. I have time, and l like playing, even if it's two hours of right hand drills. Flat picking is very hard. I started with the banjo, and finger-picking came naturally. Soon I could carry a tune. 
Not so the mandolin. But I love having this bell ringing in my hands, right where my heart is. Today the temperature will not get past ten, and I will spend hours in the sunshine, so to speak.
A friend of mine who has been playing his whole life tells me it's prayer. I'd say so.

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## Mike Arakelian

I've read your earlier posts, so I'm somewhat familiar with your situation.  For sure it's a tough one, but you're the only person that can really do anything about that.  So, it's up to you.  Your mandolin may be of poor quality or in bad shape, but if you take the $60 a month you were willing to pay for an expensive instrument at TMS and put it away for a few months, you'll be able to save enough to buy a decent entry level mandolin for yourself.  It really depends on how important music is to you.  As far as playing at the jam is concerned, we have a woman who comes every Saturday morning with her cheap Mandolin.  She can't finger any tunes, and only knows two or three chords.  Most of the time she just wraps her hand around the neck in a strangle hold and just strums muted strings.  Still, she's there every Saturday morning and always has a smile on her face because she's enjoying the music and her own limited participation.  I hope you stick it out and accept the circumstances as they are, for what they are, and work until you get them closer to where you would like them to be.  The best to you......

----------

MaggieMae

----------


## Timbofood

Just remember, it's called "Playing" music! If it feels too much like work, take a break and come back to it if you need to.
I have had to get away from it from time to time.

----------


## catmandu2

"Landfill Harmonic"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXynrsrTKbI

----------

Bertram Henze, 

Pasha Alden

----------


## CSIMelissa

As a newbie - don't give up! A crappy mandolin is better than no mandolin. I just got my first one(a Kentucky) in November after saying I wanted to play for 20+ years.  Now I'm so addicted I wish I hadn't waited to long.  I feel giddy whenever I touch mine. Music isn't a competition about who has the better/best stuff. It's art.  Enjoy playing with others no matter what.  I hope I'm lucky enough to jam with others eventually.

----------

Pasha Alden, 

swain

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## Pasha Alden

To all our "newby" friends Go for it!

----------

Astabeth

----------


## Doug Heinold

It is normal to hit the occasional wall and get a little frustrated.  When you push through that wall, and take the next step, that is where the real progress and joy come.  I've only been playing a little longer than you, and the only "jamming" I've done is with my family.  It took a lot of courage for you to even step out there in the first place.  Maybe spend some more time on the "newbies" section of the Cafe and don't be too hard on yourself.  It takes a lot of time, but it is well worth it.  Even if just playing by yourself or for a family member.  From where I sit, it seems like the mandolin has been good for you.  Hang in there.

----------


## jaycat

> . . . I feel giddy whenever I touch mine. . . .


I'll have what she's having.

----------

Bertram Henze

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## Caleb

There are always ways to make a little money if you really want to.  When I got interested in mandolin I wasn't in a very good place, financially, and couldn't afford a good mandolin.  So I took the little play money I had and would buy used books at thrift stores for a buck or so, books that I knew I could move for a better price on Amazon.  I'd turn my one dollar into four.  I'd take my four dollars and get some other things, sell them on Amazon or eBay, and my four dollars was suddenly ten.  This went on till I had $500 or so in my hand (about 4 or 5 months and probably could've gone faster).  I also looked around my house for things to sell: just small things to make a few bucks.  

If a person has time to stare at the ceiling or watch TV for hours, that same person has time to work parttime at a fast food restaurant for 3 or 4 months to get some mandolin money.  Or mow lawns, rake leaves, shovel snow, wait tables.  There are as many opportunities as there are excuses. 

I like to write as a hobby.  But here's the deal: the world doesn't care if I write another word and won't notice if I quit.  But I do.  So I write.  If you really want to own a better mandolin and get better at playing it, you will.

----------

MaggieMae

----------


## JEStanek

If you enjoy playing, i.e., you get some pleasure from playing, get Rob Meldrum's Mandolin set up guide and use the tweeks to maximize what you have.  

It's only a competition if your in a competition.  Make music, contribute what you can, practice to improve.  Don't be hyper critical of yourself.  Just breathe.  If you aren't doing this to get paid, why get so crazy over it... the point is to have some fun.  Fun can be had on a well set up cheapo, I know.

I'm not a very skilled player.  I can play a handful of easy songs.  It helps me relax and is pleasurable.

Jamie

----------


## Rob Meldrum

Wow, lots of great advice here.  If, indeed, you are fairly young (teenager,plus or minus), turn off the darned TV (it's an IQ-eraser), get out and get some part-time work.  People will pay you to mow their lawns, wash and wax their cars, power-wash their decks, muck the leaves out of their gutters, etc.  Two benefits: you get used to interacting with relative strangers and conducting business with them, and you make some money.

Maybe your mandolin is not salvageabl.  Email me for the free ebook on mandolin setup mentioned earlier.  Email rob.meldrum@gmail.com and put madolin setup in the subject line.  Check the setup of your current mandolin and see if you can improve it.  If not, buy a Rogue, set it up and practice for twelve months while you save cash.  Then buy a better mandolin.

Finally, buck up, cheer up, and get to work.  You'll learn a lot of great life lessons.

Rob

----------

catmandu2

----------


## catmandu2

> why get so crazy over it...


Some of the previous remarks by the OP WRT compulsivity, etc. tells us that it's a particular challenge for some (maintaining a relatively rational approach).  Per Jamie's suggestions--try to stay in the moment

Excellent advice by Rob WRT utilizing your resources; a $50 Rogue can go a long way..

----------


## allenhopkins

Kevbuch --

So: in *this recent thread* you were planning -- if you got financing, which apparently you didn't -- to buy a "$1000-1500" mandolin from the Mandolin Store.  And you talked about how responsible you would be to make the payments, because _"I always pay back my debts because the money technically doesnt belong to me…"_.

Well, if you could make payments on a $1K mandolin if you had it in your possession, why not just put aside an amount equivalent to, say, half that payment amount every month?  In a few months you'd be buying a decent Kentucky or Rover A-model that would definitely meet your needs as a learner.

Instant gratification is wonderful, of course, but looking for it in terms of developing musical skills, or obtaining a better instrument, can just make you even more frustrated.  Perhaps your current instrument is unfixable, perhaps not.  Have you taken it to an instrument tech in your area for an opinion?

People learn on some pretty gnarly mandolins, and the real variable is motivation.  Every one of us sounded like dog's breakfast when we got started.

You described yourself as a "high functioning autistic," and said "mandolin makes [you] feel normal."  That's a helluva lot to give up over current frustration.  Considering what you said you were getting from your mandolin playing, persistence -- difficult though that may be -- offers a major payoff.  Take a serious inventory of the pros and cons before you chuck the whole enterprise away.

----------

MaggieMae, 

Steve Zawacki

----------


## MaggieMae

It can be a trait of an autistic to get super enthusiastic about something new, only to become very discouraged when it gets to be challenging or less fun than anticipated.  You are on an emotional roller coaster and are in the valley from your previous high.  Give yourself time to come back to a middle ground, and practice, practice, practice.  It is not that unlike a bipolar cycle. (In fact, do you have psychological support in place?)

See what you can do to lay aside a little extra money here and there or sell some things to earn some extra money while you are gaining some skills. But I think buying a super expensive mandolin right now wouldn't be the best idea.  If you are still playing in a year, that might be the time to spend some money on an upgrade.

----------


## roysboy

> It can be a trait of an autistic to get super enthusiastic about something new, only to become very discouraged when it gets to be challenging or less fun than anticipated.  You are on an emotional roller coaster and are in the valley from your previous high.  Give yourself time to come back to a middle ground, and practice, practice, practice.  It is not that unlike a bipolar cycle. (In fact, do you have psychological support in place?)
> 
> See what you can do to lay aside a little extra money here and there or sell some things to earn some extra money while you are gaining some skills. But I think buying a super expensive mandolin right now wouldn't be the best idea.  If you are still playing in a year, that might be the time to spend some money on an upgrade.


GREAT , SMART advice for ANYONE ,Maggie May . Dropping a ton of $$$ on what may be a just a whim ...whatever that happens to be ...is just foolish and irresponsible . " _If you are still playing in a year , that may be the time to spend some money on an upgrade "_ .

----------


## terzinator

I just bought myself a cheap banjo. 

So there is that avenue, if you choose.

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## kevbuch

Lot not  replies than I thought @_@ time to get reading!

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## kevbuch

> Do you drink, smoke, drive a car or have any other expensive passtimes?


Nope. Other than rent at my campsite, a meager amount of groceries and 8$ for Netflix, I have between 20-30$ leftover each month.I even quit video games when I got my mandolin.

Mandolin is all much fun. I know it's for me. I just don't want to be playing alone and I'm too shy to be just playing alone at the park or something.

----------


## kevbuch

> I have similar thoughts. It seemed like you had such a positive initial experience of the mandolin, as so many of us have, that your thoughts jumped from the beater you've started on to possibilities in the $1000-$1500 range. In the process, I think you bypassed the intermediate level of instruments, which is where I'd urge you to turn your sights. If you could afford the $60 in monthly payments for The Mandolin Store, as you were projecting, then you are only five months away from saving up enough for a Kentucky 150 like this one: http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=8697. Or perhaps a helpful relative, like your supportive grandfather I believe, could loan you the money to acquire the mandolin now and allow you to pay him back. Either way, don't let your frustration with your current instrument turn you off of the mandolin entirely.



That 60$ involved some creative thinking that I'm not comfortable posting. I'm actually glad I didn't get approved. It would've been  disaster.

----------


## Clement Barrera-Ng

I haven't read through al the replies, so at the risk of repeating what everyone may have already said: Don't quit. From your previous posts, it seems that playing music has had a really positive impact on you so far, and to quit that now would be like finding your true soul mate but breaking up with the person because you don't have a car to drive them around. In the end, none of that matters, and everything is relative. I play a 2k instrument and I ought to be very happen with it, but each time I jam with the big boys who play one of those high end top notch axe, it makes my baby sound like a little cigar box.  But I'll never be able to afford one of those so I learn to enjoy all the nuances and subtleties that my instrument give me each day.

----------


## kevbuch

> Although you don't give your age or the brand of your instrument you sound like a teenager sitting around waiting for life to happen.... The news is, "It ain't going to."  You haven't even explored your mandolin yet... The bridge and its straighntess is *your responsibility* just as much as tuning your own instrument is, as well as replacing strings and glueing back separating plywood. Bridges are cheap, as is Elmers Glue.
> 
> A cheap mando is not an excuse for bad playing. The only excuse for bad playing is tone deafness. But it is not the instruments fault. 
> 
> So I suggest you give up and throw away your instrument... Maybe in five or six years you will be mature enough to see something like this through, but presently you probably should just sit and watch the tube.  Remember: There is always a home for you in your parents' basement.



YOWCH! Calm down there, fella! I get that I was just being silly and I think I just needed some moral support. But you've hit some VERY hot button issues there. Thank God you said that over the internet or I'd probably be back in prison. :Mad:   :Mad:   :Mad:

----------


## yankees1

> YOWCH! Calm down there, fella! I get that I was just being silly and I think I just needed some moral support. But you've hit some VERY hot button issues there. Thank God you said that over the internet or I'd probably be back in prison.


 Back in prison ?  :Frown:

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## kevbuch

> It can be a trait of an autistic to get super enthusiastic about something new, only to become very discouraged when it gets to be challenging or less fun than anticipated.  You are on an emotional roller coaster and are in the valley from your previous high.  Give yourself time to come back to a middle ground, and practice, practice, practice.  It is not that unlike a bipolar cycle. (In fact, do you have psychological support in place?)
> 
> See what you can do to lay aside a little extra money here and there or sell some things to earn some extra money while you are gaining some skills. But I think buying a super expensive mandolin right now wouldn't be the best idea.  If you are still playing in a year, that might be the time to spend some money on an upgrade.



Ok ok I was being stupid, silly and the jam session made me really embarrassed and depressed even though I should've realized I wasn't ready. No I don't have any support, psychological or otherwise. My family doesn't even know what autism is. My only contact with the outside world is internet, and I play chess with my grandpa.  Couples time a week. I think I just want  in a bad place and needed somebody to communicate with. I'm sorry.

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## kevbuch

Long stupid story. Never had to hurt anybody in my life(outside of prison). I shouldn't have brought it up but he said the one type of thing that sets me off. Steam is still coming out of my ears. I'm ruining the chill atmosphere of the cafe. I'm going to take a break for a day or two. Sorry.

----------

Jim

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## yankees1

You might want to work on your personal issues before you had any mandolin issues,  just saying !

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## kevbuch

> You might want to work on your personal issues before you had any mandolin issues,  just saying !


And you called me immature °-°

I'm sorry for what I said to you but do you really think what you said was called for?

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## Frank Donnoli

The great Bluesmen played fencing wire nailed to a barn wall. The music was inside them and they didn't let a poor instrument stand in the way of expressing themselves. If it's the mandolin you want to use to express yourself then stick with it.

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## allenhopkins

I'm on kevbuch's side here, with the proviso that I disagree with letting temporary frustration threaten what could be -- apparently _is_ -- an emotionally supportive activity, learning to play the mandolin.  And I understand that he has revealed himself more than most Cafe´participants do, in regard to his personal situation and psychological issues.  Once that's done, it's understandable that some of us are jumping in, regarding more than his relationship to the mandolin.  I'm guilty of that, as well.

But it's really none of our business what he's doing with his life, other than the part of it that relates to his request for assistance and advice regarding his mandolin progress (or lack thereof).  With regard to "personal issues," who among us is casting the first stone?

Let's provide some assistance and support, perhaps "talking him down" from hastily giving up playing mandolin, perhaps offering him some possible strategies toward either obtaining a better instrument, or making the one he has playable.  We can draw on our experiences -- our own frustrations when our musical progress seemed blocked, and we felt inadequate, wondering if we would ever reach a level of competence equal to other musicians, becoming convinced of our own inferiority.

I'd be damn surprised if most of us haven't reached some point where we wondered if it was worth it to keep trying, when we didn't seem to be getting any closer to where we wanted to be.  Or when we felt proud of achieving some milestone in our progress, only to find that it seemed insignificant when listening to others' playing.  Most of us probably feel reticent to share feelings that kevbuch has expressed -- in really raw form -- but I'll bet many of us have felt them.

There are strategies that can get around these blockages in our progress, these feelings of self-doubt and frustration.  Most of us can figure out these strategies ourselves, or at least "in private."  Others give up, and only they know whether that decision made sense or not, in their overall perspectives.  We have a Cafe´member here who's revealed rather more than most of us would care to, and let's not make that any harder than it probably is already.

Just my 2¢.

----------

JEStanek, 

kevbuch, 

MaggieMae, 

Mike Arakelian, 

Pasha Alden, 

TheArimathean

----------


## Roseweave

Listen I can't play anything worth a crap and probably won't be a great player ever, but I still make good music that people like, somehow, and I consider it another tool to add to my arsenal so I have an extra layer on top of all the bleeps and bloops I normally use.

Don't think of the Mandolin as a static, unchangeable instrument with a series of goals to accomplish. It's your Mandolin - play it how you want, make it your own. Learn some old timey riffs. Start a folk punk band. Pull it out to play songs with at parties like a Ukulele. Have fun with it.

----------

kevbuch

----------


## Nick Gellie

Kevbuch,

I can emphathise with your feelings about frustrations with your mandolin playing.  Basically it can be a tough instrument to play well.  Most people playing in sessions play at much faster speed than most are able to keep up with.

You can make it a goal to learn a medium tempo tune really well and go back to the session and try it out.  Also sessions are an opportunity to find out how people play the mandolin.  You can learn a lot by listening and asking simple questions - how did you do that in that last tune or song, etc.?

All the best with your mandolin playing.  If you do come by some extra money in time, invest in a Kentucky KM-150 or equivalent and make sure it is well set up.

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## Pasha Alden

To Allen Hopkins: a million thanks for your remarks: just need to share: when I play my mandolin I am no longer visually impaired.   That's so powerful and it is as if I can free myself.
By that of course I am not suggesting that I'm different to anyone or sitting insack cloth and ashes.   Life is way too precious and short for that.  I just wanted to share that I "see through music".   That is so liberating.

Happy playing to you all and best to you Kevbuch!

----------

Jim

----------


## Roseweave

> Although you don't give your age or the brand of your instrument you sound like a teenager sitting around waiting for life to happen.... The news is, "It ain't going to."  You haven't even explored your mandolin yet... The bridge and its straighntess is *your responsibility* just as much as tuning your own instrument is, as well as replacing strings and glueing back separating plywood. Bridges are cheap, as is Elmers Glue.
> 
> A cheap mando is not an excuse for bad playing. The only excuse for bad playing is tone deafness. But it is not the instruments fault. 
> 
> So I suggest you give up and throw away your instrument... Maybe in five or six years you will be mature enough to see something like this through, but presently you probably should just sit and watch the tube.  Remember: There is always a home for you in your parents' basement.


Can we not with this?

Everyone goes through a period where they feel overwhelmed. Especially for someone like autism, you can't judge them as the same standard as everyone else but some people, especially older and often more socially privileged people push a model of "personal responsibility" that might have been the in thing in the 50s but doesn't really work when you figure in all the actual difficulties real people go through. 

People are allowed to have interests outside of Mandolin too. I swear to Tchaikovsky, my Ballet teacher is nowhere near as much of a haradass as some of you guys and she has to deal with a lot of kids and parents that just can't be bothered but still expect to be great.

We're not all self reliant renaissance men and some of us have our limits. Be a little more compassionate, please.

----------

Beanzy

----------


## kevbuch

Thanks to you all. I just did some thinking and remembered back when I was little and made "music" with rubber bands on a shoebox with pencils stuck in for twisting into different sounds. I realize that all that matters is being able to make noise. I just REALLY REALLY REALLY want to make noise with others!! It has nothing to do with my mandolin. I was just so excited about maybe being able to be a part of something. Maybe I'll make a post(or put up some flyers) and try to start a jam session for beginners. THIS
IS IS MY MANDOLIN. THERE ARE OTHERS LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE!!

----------

Jim, 

MaggieMae

----------


## Roseweave

do you have a pickup in your mando? if not get one. and get some effects program or guitar pedals. something to pitch shift it down for extra fun(a micropog will do it polyphonically). you can make some great noise with just about any sound source.

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## chuck3

"I just did some thinking and remembered back when I was little and made "music" with rubber bands on a shoebox with pencils stuck in for twisting into different sounds."

I was very good with rubber bands on those hollow desks in junior high school, and went on to become a pretty good bass player.  Now I play mando too and I love it.  It's a great instrument.  Don't give up - listen to this ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjgxx782c68

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## Petrus

> I'm on kevbuch's side here, with the proviso that I disagree with letting temporary frustration threaten what could be -- apparently _is_ -- an emotionally supportive activity, learning to play the mandolin.  And I understand that he has revealed himself more than most Cafe´participants do, in regard to his personal situation and psychological issues.  Once that's done, it's understandable that some of us are jumping in, regarding more than his relationship to the mandolin.  I'm guilty of that, as well. But it's really none of our business what he's doing with his life, other than the part of it that relates to his request for assistance and advice regarding his mandolin progress (or lack thereof).  With regard to "personal issues," who among us is casting the first stone?


I have nothing but support to offer anyone with good intentions, as kevbuch has shown. I haven't seen any stone casting other than a few people suggesting that yes, mandolin is hard and it's not for everyone (but that's not much of an answer.)  I would offer the same support regardless of whether we're talking about the mandolin, violin, piano, chess, poker, programming, visual art ... anything that one might have a passion for but find occasional speed bumps along the way.  The main point in all of these things is to _satisfy yourself_.  Unless you have set out to turn it into a professional endeavor with large sums of money involved (unlikely in the case of mandolin; more likely with stuff like computer programming or maybe poker), you are the sole judge of what constitutes acceptable progress and whether you are enjoying yourself or not.  I don't want to get into the autistic aspects of this conversation which would take us a little far afield and off-topic, but I suspect it is about a hairsbreadth away from real enlightenment, probably much closer to the truth than most "extros" (non-autistic types) would be willing to admit.

To be brutally honest, I too know the frustration of coming onto the forum to crow about my latest cool instrument that I really enjoyed finding only to be told what a cheap amateur piece of plywood it is and how I really need to spend the equivalent of a the price of a good used car for a "real" mandolin.  Way to pop a newbie's bubble. (I'm not pointing fingers here and maybe I'm overreacting.)  Then of course I realize, "hey, my reaction is _my_ problem, not what anybody else says."

----------


## Petrus

> You might want to work on your personal issues before you had any mandolin issues,  just saying !


That applies to everybody.  Hell, if we all put everything aside to work on our "personal issues" before doing anything else, we'd never do anything else. Ever hear of music therapy?

----------


## Roseweave

While we're on inspirational songs  :Smile:

----------


## pryjazz

The first line of your post say you love mandolin and are...having a blast.  Just stop there, man.  Why spend so much energy looking at all the negative s#@%?  My first mando was a Black-Friday Rogue.  The bridge was poorly set and the tuners are crap.  I read everything I could about the mandolin fit and repair.  I even read a couple of histories on the mandolin.  After 2 hours of filing, tweaking, tightening, and oiling, it stayed in tune!!...okay, for about two songs, but still!!  It sounds like you know other players, and that's great.  Pick their brains.  Sometimes, even something like a new $5 set of strings can make a change.  

Conversely man, if deliberately building your skill and knowledge doesn't keep you engaged with the music you say you love, I have to echo "roysboy" and suggest maybe a different instrument.  I played guitar years before mando and was an okay rhythm guitarist.  Then I found mando and I hardly ever touch a guitar now.  So, find your passion and maybe you will find yourself dissatisfied with staring at the ceiling.  Just sayin'.

----------

Steve Zawacki

----------


## kevbuch

> While we're on inspirational songs


Omg I love that book so much that I can't watch that video. Think it will make me cry.

----------


## Mike Scott

Interesting thread.  Lots of advice freely given and hopefully well received.  Granted I failed to read ever reply but.............  I have been where you are.  I have sold all my mandolins a couple of times figuring I would just pack it in on the fiendish little instrument.  I have come back to it and now really enjoy the whole thing.  I must say we are all our own worse critics-so be it.  I haven't been to a jam in a couple of years.  Need to go, it is just that the timing seems to be off.  I am sure once I go I'll keep going.  After nearly 6 years in, I can play a lot of fiddle tunes, some ITM and some Pop/rock stuff.  I am sure I won't know most of the songs at the jam, but will "chop along" as best I can and when totally unsure will just try to stay in time and do the percussive thing.  I then plan to write down all the tunes played so I can learn those I don't know and be able to play more breaks as time goes on.

Keep working at it.  You will regret quitting if you do or at least find the guitar, banjo, harmonica or whatever.  Music is too important to not be involved-that's my $.02

----------


## Roseweave

> Omg I love that book so much that I can't watch that video. Think it will make me cry.


Have you never seen the musical? It's a different take on things, it's good in it's own way. The song is empowering but there are songs that make me cry, like not that girl and for good.

----------


## Petrus

Here's one that I've been wanting to post for a while. It's another one of those quirky things that the first time you see it you go, "wtf?" but than little by little it dawns on you how awesome it is.  It's John Cage (who once admitted that he couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, and didn't believe in recorded music -- he thought you should only ever hear any piece of music once and once only), _playing a cactus needle with a feather_.  He once wrote a piece for toy pianos.




And here's a fun little piece by Conlon Nancarrow, who wrote music for player pianos.  Yeah, he'd physically punch holes in a scroll of player piano paper and run it through the piano.  Point being, you can do anything you want and be your own judge.  How many times do you think these guys had to put up with people thinking they were nuts or didn't know what they were doing? Good thing they ignored all that.

----------


## Sandy Beckler

I am at a loss for words...of the length of this thread, and the number of fine people who took their time, and got sucked in.

Sandy

----------

Petrus

----------


## Samuel David Britton

I know about getting frustrated about playing. Sometimes I feel that no one wants to hear me play.
What really helped me is playing with other musicians because they like what I add to the group. 
I also think that a nice instrument really inspires me because it has a sound that just needs to be heard.

----------


## Petrus

> I am at a loss for words...of the length of this thread, and the number of fine people who took their time, and got sucked in.


I suspect disillusionment and frustration with one's musical practice is a more common ailment than most are willing to admit.

----------

kevbuch

----------


## Bertram Henze

> I too know the frustration of coming onto the forum to crow about my latest cool instrument that I really enjoyed finding only to be told what a cheap amateur piece of plywood it is...
> 
> ...Then of course I realize, "hey, my reaction is _my_ problem, not what anybody else says."


True, and true. When I bought my first cheapo East-German-made mandolin, I was walking on sunshine because I felt that it would carry me out of the rut my life was stuck in, and rightfully so. Later, I saw other, better instruments (live, there was no forum back then) and slowly realized that my own starter was exactly what I had needed but that it was just that: a starter.
There were no unfriendly comments then, because I was lucky to play Irish music, where the quality of your instrument is unimportant. Even after abandoning my starter instrument, I could hold on to what it had done for me, and I still do without the need of approval but my own.

Discouragingly cool comments typically come from someone who can't understand what the problem is (answer to the hunger in the world: just eat more!) What I have learned on the Cafe is to not answer unless I feel I've been there myself.

----------

Pasha Alden, 

Petrus

----------


## Steve Zawacki

> The first line of your post say you love mandolin and are...having a blast.  Just stop there, man.  Why spend so much energy looking at all the negative s#@%?  My first mando was a Black-Friday Rogue.  The bridge was poorly set and the tuners are crap.  I read everything I could about the mandolin fit and repair.  I even read a couple of histories on the mandolin.  After 2 hours of filing, tweaking, tightening, and oiling, it stayed in tune!!...okay, for about two songs, but still!!  It sounds like you know other players, and that's great.  Pick their brains.  Sometimes, even something like a new $5 set of strings can make a change.  
> 
> Conversely man, if deliberately building your skill and knowledge doesn't keep you engaged with the music you say you love, I have to echo "roysboy" and suggest maybe a different instrument.  I played guitar years before mando and was an okay rhythm guitarist.  Then I found mando and I hardly ever touch a guitar now.  So, find your passion and maybe you will find yourself dissatisfied with staring at the ceiling.  Just sayin'.


Odds are that the first mandolin (or guitar, xylophone, gamelan, whatever)  for a significant number of us was a "POS" impulse purchase.  That instrument lasted a long time until it either wore out or something better (even marginally) came along.  However, that first instrument will always be remembered no matter how many others come afterwards.

If you know other musicians (those you jam with?) perhaps they have a spare instrument that they can let you have as a bargain.  It's just a matter of appreciating the other guys and letting them know you are in a "budget-limited" market.  Musicians understand other musicians, especially those trying to play better.  Musicians also (generally) believe that an unplayed instrument is almost sinful, and if they have an instrument which just never gets played anymore, will be more than willing to have the instrument "adopted" by someone they know who will love it.  My guitars (except two) have been "adopted" by my musician-granddaughter and she already has eyes on my mandolins.

The advice on looking at other, less maintenance oriented instruments is also wise.  Even if you stay with the mandolin, having a second instrument (e.g., harmonica, flute, whatever) when the hands hurt, the strings break (and you just don't feel like replacing them immediately) or something else goes wrong can fill the down-time.  Many (especially amateur) musicians are interested more in making music regardless of the instrument than mastering just one instrument.  Having a second means to do so, especially for us with lousy singing voices, is common.  So, don't rule it out autocratically.

Good luck!

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## akjed

I had to get a second job in order to pay for my new mandolin. It was worth the weekend nights I gave up. Learning an instrument, for most people, is a lifelong process. I started playing four years ago, and was really embarrassed that I couldn't noodle and rip. But the best advice I heard from a guy who was pretty decent, is that it takes hours of tedious, arduous, slow practice. And that's just a fact of life. 99% of the players probably get to where they are not from sheer natural talent, but from giving up TV and video games and sitting down and playing. Pick a tune, learn it, then pick another and learn it. Don't think about it. Just do it. Good luck, brother.

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OldSausage, 

Pasha Alden

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## Pasha Alden

To Kevbuch: if at all possible, don't give up!

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## catmandu2

> Many (especially amateur) musicians are interested more in making music regardless of the instrument than mastering just one instrument.


My own daemons WRT music--being on the spectrum myself (as I've shared here on the forum several times in the past):

I've been playing and studying voraciously since the age of about 8 (starting first on my dad's delaminating guitar with the top curled-up from the bottom--which I deployed as a "whammy-bar"); I've been playing all kinds of instruments almost constantly since then.  I'm unable to stay with one instrument--as my interests fly from one to another abruptly.  In college--as soon as the course reading list came out for the semester, I would invariably acquire a stack of books for my personal reading--which was always at odds with course objectives (sometimes professors allowed me to go "off-syllabus" and write papers in my exuberant state--as a writing objective frequently incited my curiosity and I pursued topics to philosophical ends [I was also permitted to continue art history in my master's program electives in behavioral sciences])...anyway, all this to say that--for many of us the "normal life" syllabus is particularly challenging, and the irrational impulse is especially hard to override (which makes playing music and pursuing art that much more sensible, etc)

Cut to chase: although I spent several decades with guitar--since giving up a more-or-less myopic approach to study (it didn't work in college and it doesn't work for me elsewhere) I seem to compulsively study a new instrument every year or two.  This isn't the approach advocated by formal pedagogies, and certainly not the approach to take if mastery is the goal.  Those of us challenged in similar ways must gain personal insight and formulate strategies to accommodate our needs.

The creative process often involves deep self-inquiry and analysis; many similarities between an artistic process and the cognitive processes folks with particular challenges deal with day to day--we start from the beginning over and over again.  Ultimately, seeing the very artistic and creative essence of life--each day--is very helpful

Or more succinctly, as Leo Kottke said: create when you're manic; edit when you're depressed

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## TheBlindBard

Hey, Kevbuch, firstly, step back a bit and calm down. We've all been at a point where we feel that our music isn't good enough or that playing is useless. I've been there several times myself. I originally started making music on guitar and it never clicked. I knew lots of great guitar players around me who could just play anything they wanted quickly and they could express themselves greatly. I never really got into guitar that much because I was discouraged alot. It doesn't matter if you're skilled at making music, it matters that it does something for you. It matters that it helps you feel normal and like any personal problems you have don't exist. I'm blind, and that is my only problem. Tons of people, though, think because I'm blind, that means I have any number of other things wrong with me. "Do you need help doing your seat-belt, sweetie?" stuff like that and worse. Music helps me feel like something more than "that blind kid".
There's been a lot of great advice here (and some not-so-great advice, but, don't let that get you down). I'm not that handy and wouldn't feel comfortible setting up a mandolin on my own, but you sure can try, you have sight, which is a very useful tool, trust me on that one. Don't get discouraged in your playing because you feel you aren't progressing quick enough. Everything that is good and worth having takes time. Playing an instrument, having a stable romantic relationship, or even making friends. Just, what-ever you do, don't quit. If you quit, you let the people who think you don't sound good or can't do it win. Take the bad mandolin you have, if you can, set it up to make it playible, take a break from playing. Music is supposed to be something that is fun and that can lift you up when you're feeling down. It shouldn't be something that frustrates you and annoys you.
Please, step back, relax, and realize that hundreds of other people have walked the path you're walking now, learning a new instrument. it's not easy and there will be bumps along the road. All you can do is pick yourself up and keep on walking and learning. Music is a beautiful thing that shouldn't be thrown away on a wim.
Lastly: We (as artists or musicians) are our own worst critics. There will  be times when I am playing in my room and a part sounds crappy. Rather than letting it get me down, I go back and play it a bunch to get it down and sounding good. practice as much as you want to, but, make sure it's fun and enjoyible, learn tunes you enjoy or songs.
Best of luck, man, I hope it all works out for you. If you ever want to talk, you can message me, man.

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DataNick, 

kevbuch

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## Roseweave

My Mando is pretty damn cheap but I'm still enjoying it despite the difficulty in fingering etc. I'm glad I didn't get one of the truly truly cheap ones in the end.

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## kevbuch

I'm over the whole quitting thing. It was a stupid thought I had in a really bad mood and I posted without thinking it over enough. In retrospect, it wasn't my mandolin. I just thought I was better than I was and was scared I wouldn't be able to play with others. I'm going to find out what my drunk former step uncle is up to. He used to have jam sessions with his brother and his neighbor and you could hardly call it music, but it was hilarious to watch, probably more fun to play in.  Every song they played was called "crocodile boy" and sounded completely different.

"This song is an old favorite called crocodile boy......  :Mandosmiley:   :Mandosmiley:  ........ this next song is about a man I met down in the bayou. He crawled out of the swamp, said his name was crocodile boy and this is what he told me..... :Mandosmiley:  :Mandosmiley: ....when I was just a pup, my momma would sing me this song...it's called.....crocodile boy :Mandosmiley:  :Mandosmiley: 


Hilarious and if they tried to learn their instruments a little, they could probably have people rolling in the aisles if they went on stage.

...sorry, I got sidetracked. I remembered that story while typing :Disbelief: 

Thanks for the support. I just wanted you guys to know I'm not down in the dumps anymore. Don't worry about me. I'm very grateful and I have a lot of wisdom to recall if I ever feel discouraged again.

P.s. I'VE STRUCK GOLD!! Not really, but it feels that way to me. Who knew junk was worth so much? I've made over 140$ on eBay in the past several hours with stuff from my designated random junk box. Haven't played my video games since I started mandolin, so they're part of that money too. With any luck, when the bids are finished, I will have about 200$. I think I put some of my " buy it now"s too low though :Mad:  and just so you know. I'm not going to blow this newfound wealth on the first mandolin I see  :Smile:

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Bertram Henze, 

DataNick, 

Jim, 

Pasha Alden, 

Petrus

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## Caleb

My advice would be to get a few hundred bucks, sit on it, and watch the Classifieds here like crazy.  When the right deal comes along, jump on it.  Good luck, and till then just play the heck out of what you have.  Have fun.

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## Jeff Hildreth

I don't play with others or "jam"

These are not requirements of playing mandolin.

Re-group... try classical.

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Bob Clark, 

Caleb, 

kevbuch, 

Pasha Alden, 

Petrus

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## Phil-D

I remember a poster in my high school guidance counselor's office that said "Winners never quit, and quitters never win."

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## Roseweave

Hey Kev, this might inspire you. I got bored today and bought a ####ty €5 transducer to experiment with. It actually sounded surprisingly good with guitar, but mostly I wanted to make spooky sounds with my mando. 

It's awful lol:

https://app.box.com/s/795c0c5zqhrwjmi0267t

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kevbuch

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## Pasha Alden

Thanks to the BlindBard.   I experience similar stuff! even people who wish to feel sorry for someone with a disability.   No need, and again concur with Bard, 
When I play the mandolin, I am Pasha the musician, the equal of others playing alongside me or the equal of the audience I sing and play for. So long live the mandolin!

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## Pasha Alden

At Kevbuch: That's the spirit and happy playing!

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## TheBlindBard

Kev, glad to see you're past that. Keep saving up some money and keep an eye on the classifides for sure. Lots of people here set up their instruments and you can get some good deals on the classifides, especially in the playibility area. Happy playing man.
@Vanilla mandolin: Yeah, I had stuff like that happen to me all the time in school, it's annoying as hell for sure. I mean, I can't see, doesn't mean I'm mentally disabled as well.

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## Pasha Alden

At BlindBard: I have now a few choice answers for people like that.   I kindly, very politely refer them to the Oxford dictionary, there is a difference between blindness and a mental challenge. If we experience stereotypical thinking I wonder how parents of mentally challenged children feel?   It must be hard.

I think if this was not so unrelated to the mandolin we could have started our own thread creating awareness about 
etiquette around persons with special needs relating to disability.


However, it won't really be necessary for the café because none of that stuff happens here, so well done to the members of the café.
That's what I love about the mandolin and the café - It's wonderfully liberating! So here there is no need for my daily work related activism.



Now back to the thread and mandolins and Kevbuch keep playing and keep the faith!

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## Beanzy

I reckon there'd be no harm in kicking off a thread about specific physical difficulties for musicians and how people work around them or incorporate them into their musicmaking. You could get some really useful ideas knocking about for strategies and techniques, even if it's just how to get past the "Does she take sugar?" issues. 

Even if it we're a slow-burner it could be useful over time for people coming by doing searches for their particular situations in later years.

& well done Kevbuch on successfully leaping another hurdle.

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kevbuch, 

Petrus

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## Pasha Alden

Hi Beanzie and others

If we started such a thread I think it will address musical strategies as you suggest.  
E.G. tips for playing without seeing the fret board, finding one's way on the fret board without looking when playing faster, etc. 
There are many little tips. And the "How much sugar does she take" is a lovely example by the way.   <big smile> It is funny to stand with four people and suddenly someone asked my husband "what does she want" Naturally he becomes a trifle uneasy and answers: "Ask her, she doesn't see you but she talks." <big smile> I think my husband and I have now learned to drop the annoyance and just show them how silly they are.

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## roysboy

> I'm over the whole quitting thing. It was a stupid thought I had in a really bad mood and I posted without thinking it over enough. In retrospect, it wasn't my mandolin. I just thought I was better than I was and was scared I wouldn't be able to play with others. I'm going to find out what my drunk former step uncle is up to. He used to have jam sessions with his brother and his neighbor and you could hardly call it music, but it was hilarious to watch, probably more fun to play in.  Every song they played was called "crocodile boy" and sounded completely different.
> 
> "This song is an old favorite called crocodile boy......   ........ this next song is about a man I met down in the bayou. He crawled out of the swamp, said his name was crocodile boy and this is what he told me.........when I was just a pup, my momma would sing me this song...it's called.....crocodile boy
> 
> 
> Hilarious and if they tried to learn their instruments a little, they could probably have people rolling in the aisles if they went on stage.
> 
> ...sorry, I got sidetracked. I remembered that story while typing
> 
> ...


This 'crocodile boy' stuff is hilarious...Reminds me of a blues jam I used to go to in Niagara Falls New York years ago where one of the guys named songs AFTER we played them . Many were called " _stop the war"_ or '_stop the bombing_ '..._'stop the madness_' ...you get the idea .  The guy was the great organist  Ronnie Foster who ended up playing with the great jazz guitarist George Benson and recording with many others. Not sure they'd be good song names for a mandolin/bluegrass session but they worked at a blues jam. 
Happy to hear of your financial windfall . Where there's a will ....etc.....

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## Jim

Kevbuch, Glad you're feeling better and continuing with Mandolin. In an earlier post i remember you mentioning that playing mandolin made you "feel normal". Well that frustration at not being as good as you hoped is just another aspect of "normal". I'm sure that a better instrument will find you in time, meanwhile just keep on working with what you got and making it better when you can. Most of all, enjoy it. Tune it up and play something that makes you happy and you are playing as well as anyone can.

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## Petrus

> I reckon there'd be no harm in kicking off a thread about specific physical difficulties for musicians and how people work around them or incorporate them into their musicmaking. You could get some really useful ideas knocking about for strategies and techniques, even if it's just how to get past the "Does she take sugar?" issues.


There's a long list of famous blind pickers ... mainly guitar but probably mando too. It's not that they're super-virtuosos either, they just practiced a lot and it was one of the few things a blind person could to do earn a living. Not so many deaf musicians -- Beethoven being the notable exception. Django Reinhardt, who I mentioned before, lost a couple of fingers in a fire and had to learn how to play all over again in a new style to accommodate his limitation.

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## Jim

Along with those that have made music while dealing with physical disabilities, blindness , damaged limbs and nerve diseases. There are also a great number who have made GREAT music while dealing with mental illness and addiction, sometimes with success sometimes not. Some pretty amazing beauty came from these tortured souls. Parker, Breau, Pass, Barrett the list goes on & on.

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## Pasha Alden

At Beanzie and Jim

Many thanks.
In the past music was a career that persons living with blindness could follow. It is all practice.  

Cannot speak for other persons living with mental illness, damaged limbs and nerve damage.   I know that music is powerful and the human spirit can triumph over almost anything.   Perhaps it is through that beauty expressed that the triumph is manifested.   Something like "Why does the caged bird sing?"

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## TheBlindBard

So, do you want to do the honors, Vanilla? In starting that thread. I'd be happy to post on such a thing. Maybe it'll even help some of the non-disabled folks on this sight who want to play without looking.

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## TheBlindBard

... Django's playing is really quite wonderful. The recordings aren't the best quality, but I love his works  :Smile:

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## Roseweave

It was super cool that he was Romani too.

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## Beanzy

I've just kicked off another post as folks were being a bit shy about it.

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## Josh Levine

Crocodile boy is my favorite song. 

Every few months I get the nerve to go to the open bluegrass jam. Then I usually don't go back for a few months. I really just need to go regularly, because when I do go I usually do not feel very confident. I imagine one day I will go there and feel pretty comfortable- who knows when that will be. 

I did just get the Pete Wernick Jamming DVDs. They are pretty good and give some good tips and practice for jamming in a group, with many of the regular songs. If you want to practice the jam setting by yourself I would recommend it.

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