# Instruments and Equipment > Equipment >  What's up with Gibson?

## Elliot Luber

"There are no Gibson Original Mandolins guitars currently available."
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...-Original.aspx

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## AlanN

An original mandolin guitar, I'd like to pick on that one...

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## John Duncan

It was discussed the other day on banjohangout that they are doing website maintenance. 

Mandos should be back on their website shortly. 

Banjos...not so much

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Elliot Luber

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## mandotrout777

FWIW, I noticed this the other day as well. I sent in a question to Gibson customer service because if you just go to the regular Gibson homepage now and select "Acoustic Instruments", there is no mention of mandolins, banjos, Dobros, or OAI at all any more. As far as I know, only by doing a search for "Gibson Mandolins" do you get the message in the OP (same with banjos). I also happened to have an email exchange with the Mandolin Store and I asked them about it. They said Dave Harvey said that they were doing website maintenance. A few days later I finally heard from Gibson customer service and the response was: 

_Unfortunately we don't have a webpage available for mandolins, as they are not currently in regular production. The Custom Shop does build some mandolins for dealerships, but they are only on a special order basis._

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## mandroid

There  was that Flood  a couple years  ago ..

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## Elliot Luber

I think the winning answer appears to be that they're revamping their Website, which is something to look forward to. In the mean time I love those SJ-200s guitars.

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## Hendrik Ahrend

> _Unfortunately we don't have a webpage available for mandolins, as they are not currently in regular production. The Custom Shop does build some mandolins for dealerships, but they are only on a special order basis._


I can't help it, this reads like mid '70s routine. At the same time, I'm hoping that Dave Harvey still has his good crew around him.

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## Elliot Luber

I guess you're right. Sad to see them on the ropes. I just think it's a marketing gaff to not count themselves in the mandolin business on their Website. Thus, I suspect they will update it with something.

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## f5loar

Dave Harvey has been posting the mandolins he puts out from Gibson on facebook.  Just did a new Fern model.  Super quality mandolins.  Dave is doing a really good job at Gibson for the mandolins.

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almeriastrings, 

Bradley, 

Gary Hedrick, 

hank, 

Hendrik Ahrend, 

mandotrout777, 

Richard.g.hampton

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## Ivan Kelsall

I know that a lot of folk have Facebook accounts,but wouldn't it make more sense to post info.re.Gibson mandolins on the Gibson website,or is this a temporary measure ?. Having had my own Facebook account hacked a while back (along with 45,000 other UK members),i avoid it like the plague,
                                              Ivan

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Bob Clark

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## Elliot Luber

They should have a Web presence, if only to say that fine Gibson mandolins are produced by hand in low quantities to maintain the brand standards, and they could even have a gallery of past builds like other small-volume builders without setting expectations for mass shipments.

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## MikeEdgerton

Many large organizations have pretty much forsaken using their web pages to disseminate current news and have switched to social media. You may not like Facebook, you may refuse to take part and I get that, but the ability to instantly see and hear your customers has stepped to the forefront of the business world.

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bobcoe, 

doc holiday, 

hank, 

Mike Bunting, 

woodwizard

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## almeriastrings

Gibson's marketing strategy is plain out WEIRD. First they 'delete' their long established main dealers..including Elderly...and Mandolin Brothers....(in favour of Guitar Center)..... then they 'ban' selling things via the 'net... now they have no web descriptions of their mandolins.

Must make sense to someone, I suppose.  :Confused:

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bluesmandolinman, 

Bob Clark, 

mandotrout777

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## mandotrout777

> Many large organizations have pretty much forsaken using their web pages to disseminate current news and have switched to social media. You may not like Facebook, you may refuse to take part and I get that, but the ability to instantly see and hear your customers has stepped to the forefront of the business world.


Well, until this recent "removal" of OAI products from their website, Gibson hadn't updated the mandolin content for several years. As far as I know they aren't really using  social media to disseminate information about mandolins either. Dave Harvey is posting photos of the mandolins they are building on his personal Facebook page. It seems to me that Gibson doesn't give much of a rip about mandolins and banjos. I'll bet if it hadn't been for Mr. Harvey and his crew, mandolins would have been written off completely as a casualty of the flood, as appears to be the case with banjos. Hopefully they will update their webpage soon and/or start using social media to promote their mandolins. In the meantime, thank goodness for Dave Harvey doing what he can to let people know they are still there, cranking out some really good mandolins.

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## Marty Jacobson

Another thing to think about is the fact that if they had a mandolin Web presence of any kind, they'd have to deal with a constant deluge of inquiries from folks asking what they have available in the $200 - 400 range, where most initial mandolin purchases are made. 
Though you'd think Gibson could treat it like Dodge does with their Viper - use it as a halo to enhance their brand overall. Harvey's reputation and work certainly seems like it has value in the acoustic instrument community, which to a PR group is a form of very real capital.

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## foldedpath

Yeah, I wouldn't read this as an intentional marketing strategy by Gibson, unless it still looks this way a year from now. It looks like Mr. Harvey's personal interest in the Facebook posts, and the company Web site may be in the middle of a redesign phase. 

Big companies do care about marketing via social media, but most of them are aware that Facebook ain't the only game in town anymore, and that it has an aging demographic. The kids are moving elsewhere (Pinterest, Twitter, etc.) and don't want to be on the same service being watched by their parents and grandparents. The under 30's and 20's demographic is where the future of music instrument sales are, as Gibson surely knows. 

I'd expect to see the OAI info show up again on the company Web site before long, because the Web is still relevant to young people, at least as a static info resource.

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hank

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## CES

At risk of initiating a firestorm...there are independent luthiers putting out better mandolins...

I totally get the Gibson mystique and history and would buy a Loar era mando if I had the spare cash, but have long detested their reputation for poor customer service and "big business" attitude/model.  Of course there are exceptions to that rep, as Big Joe, Dave, and others have demonstrated time and again, and from a business standpoint I get it, at least to some degree (as I'm sure their guitar sales in a few weeks outpace mando and banjo sales combined in a year, though I'm completely pulling that out of the air without any figures to support my statement  :Wink: .  But, no decisions that come out of that company surprise me anymore...

That said, I hope they maintain a presence in mando and banjo markets, and I hope they continue to live up to their rep (as, despite my initial statement, behind which I stand, Dave and crew are definitely doing some really nice work).  Like it or not, there are many players who refuse to play anything other than a Gibson...

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Jonathan James

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## f5loar

I can think of several really "big" companies/organizations in the news, that recently had and still undergoing some serious web issues.  It's not a good thing for Gibson to be void of mandolin information, but it's not like 1000's are trying to order new Ferns and F5Gs everyday.  I quick web search for Gibson mandolins for sale will give you the information and where to find a new Gibson mandolin.  I just did it and found pretty quick The Mandolin Store and when I went to their website in bold headline is "WE HAVE NEW GIBSON MANDOLINS IN STOCK".   I can find stores that still have those pre-flood NOS Gibson mandolins for sale at pre-recession prices.

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Eric Michael Pfeiffer

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## Ivan Kelsall

f5 - I hear what you're saying & i understand it - to a point - however,if i wanted to order say a Gibson F5 'Goldrush' mandolin,i'd expect to be able to find the Gibson website & a contact name. I've just done a web search & having looked at 4 different Gibson sites,all of which listed 'acoustic instruments',they were all guitars,not one link could i find to Gibson mandolins. I'm almost tempted to suggest that Dave Harvey,who seems to be a one man band for Gibson mandolins right now,form his own company & have his own website. We all know what quality we'd be getting !. Gibson's 'apparent' indifference seems apalling,
                                                                                                                                                         Ivan

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Bob Clark, 

Jim, 

mandotrout777

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## almeriastrings

Ominous.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...-Original.aspx

Exact same wording (and we_ know_ the situation with the banjos).

I agree with Ivan - it is hardly comprehensible how they have (non)-marketed these things. If I was running Gibson (!) I'd have been shouting from the rooftops about the fantastic work being done by Dave Harvey and the team recently - not ignoring it. These are (in my opinion) the best mandolins Gibson has put out since the 1920's. I just suspect that mandolins (and banjos) just don't mean too much to the "higher ups" these days - they seem more interested in electronic stuff and electric guitars...they still list and describe the acoustic guitars, however, so I have serious doubts this is just a website update issue....

We'll see.

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Bob Clark, 

Eric Michael Pfeiffer, 

Jim, 

mandotrout777

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## Ivan Kelsall

While we mandolin players quite rightly bemoan Gibson's 'apparent' lack of interest in promoting their mandolins & banjos,personally,i can see their point re. caring more about their guitars etc. Gibson have for a very long time produced guitars just as iconic in their own way as Gibson mandolins & banjos. Gibson most likely sell 100's of new guitars for every new mandolin / banjo sold,so if this is where they make their money,can we really blame them for cashing in & keeping the Co.going ?. However,for those of us wishing to buy a new Gibson mandolin,they should at least be making an effort to place their goods in front of us. How else are we to know what instruments are available ?. For Dave Harvey to seemingly have to 'market' Gibson mandolins on his _personal Facebook account_ seems totally ridiculous to me !. I totally agree with Almeria,that the quality of the mandolins put out under Dave Harvey's tenure have been built to a very high standard & have gained a reputation for being superb instruments in every respect. I feel almost as though Gibson don't deserve to have their name on the headstock if they apparently care so little. All the more credit to Dave Harvey & his team that _'we'_ still care,
                                                                                                                        Ivan

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## Canoedad

> Unfortunately we don't have a webpage available for mandolins, as they are not currently in regular production. The Custom Shop does build some mandolins for dealerships, but they are only on a special order basis.


I wonder what rough percentage of the Gibson mando folks' time is spent building mandos.

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## Astro

I wonder how long it will be before we can buy a "Harvey" mandolin. I don't know how much his hand is actively involved in building them --or if he is more of a supervisor? 

I have no first hand experience with "his" instruments but his reputation, at least on this forum, seems to have grown stronger than his employer's label.

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## Elliot Luber

> Many large organizations have pretty much forsaken using their web pages to disseminate current news and have switched to social media. You may not like Facebook, you may refuse to take part and I get that, but the ability to instantly see and hear your customers has stepped to the forefront of the business world.


 As a media consultant and professor of graduate business, management and leadership I can tell you that large corporations have not forsaken their Websites for social media -- they use social media to drive people to their Websites. They do more and more business through their Websites -- even with a separate sales channel. Yes, they can visualize an ecosystem that was once theoretical, and they can measure that response through all kinds of big data sources, but they have not forsaken their Websites. They are a key part of the branding effort.

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jesserules

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## MikeEdgerton

Yeah, except I'm seeing exactly the opposite. I'm seeing people moving the bulk of the real customer service over to the free platforms. Leave a message for your health insurer on their website and see how fast they get back to you. Leave them a message on their facebook page or twitter and see how fast they get back to you. On social media you don't need a crew of programmers working in the background the heavy lifting is done for you. Retail sales are another thing. You'll own that platform. Advertising is another. It's just cheaper and that's where the audience is.

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## Elliot Luber

Yes. That has nothing to do with anyone leaving their dot com. That's where the revenue is.

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jesserules

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## MikeEdgerton

I don't see anything there where I said anyone was abandoning a dot com. You're going to own it but if you're not taking orders on it or processing some sort of customer input then it behooves you to go to where your customers are and take care of their needs without the overhead of the platform and the back end. Some folks are doing this well, others not so much.

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## Elliot Luber

Essentially you're confusing marketing and communication. They're related, but different.

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## Verne Andru

FWIW I had some interactions with Gibson and their custom shop people during last years [2013] NAMM and asked them this very question. They told me that because of the flood they had to use what was the mandolin production line for other instruments [presumably in higher demand] and moved mandolins to the custom shop. They told me they will continue to make their mandolins available on a custom-shop order basis and had no indication when, or if, they would resume regular production.

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hank

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## MikeEdgerton

> Essentially you're confusing marketing and communication. They're related, but different.


I'm really not confusing anything. I made a statement, it holds true. You can either agree or disagree but what I said is what I said.

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## MikeEdgerton

> They told me they will continue to make their mandolins available on a custom-shop order basis and had no indication when, or if, they would resume regular production.


And that makes perfect sense for a low volume production line of instruments. Unfortunately nobody on the outside had the numbers that were being produced before the flood. For all anyone can really tell the post flood production could be greater than the pre-flood production. A few years back someone asked about the numbers of mandolins built per year and if I recall those numbers never came out.

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Gary Hedrick

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## Nick Triesch

Can you still buy a new Gibson from the mandolin store?     Yes!!!!   So everything else is moot!

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## Bill Snyder

If  you really want to get to information about a Gibson mandolin bad enough you can find what you want on their website... at least for the time being. Here is one example. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...del/Specs.aspx

and here is a second.
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...ter/Specs.aspx

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## danielpatrick

I bought a gibson f5 built by Dave himself. I had to send it back due to the way the neck settled. Dave himself called me because of the time it was taking to get it back to me and I had a session to play on coming up. He was amazing. Said he remembered this mandolin and loved the tone. Reset it, redressed the frets, priority shipped and called me again to make sure I was satisfied. Total class act!

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hank

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## Ivan Kelsall

From Santiago - _"they use social media to drive people to their Websites.They do more and more business through their Websites -- "_. Possibly that's the way it's supposed to work,but in the case of Gibson,there's nothing but guitars on the 4 websites i visited. We want mandolins (& banjos) on the Gibson site. For some folk,a Gibson mandolin is the 'only' make,so let's see them in the same way that Gibson show off their guitars. It's really not too much to ask - or is it ?, :Frown: 
                                                                                                                    Ivan :Chicken:

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## Elliot Luber

That's my point. If they want to be in the business, they should keep a current Website… because otherwise it sparks discussions just like this one. It sends the message that they're no longer in that business.

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doc holiday, 

jesserules

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## sgarrity

Your'e trying to understand Gibson's business practices?  You'd have better luck trying to count to purple using only the color nine!

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George R. Lane, 

hank, 

Markus, 

Pete Jenner

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## Tobin

> Can you still buy a new Gibson from the mandolin store?     Yes!!!!   So everything else is moot!


I don't see that it makes everything else moot.  I'm over 1000 miles from The Mandolin Store.  What if I want to actually *play* a Gibson mandolin before spending $10K or $25K on one?  Gibson has a huge number of dealers around the country (5 right here in San Antonio), but how many of them have a mandolin in stock?  I've been to every Gibson dealer in town, and they all tell me the same thing.  I'd have to order one to see one.  That's a pathetic way to run a business.  We're talking about instruments that cost as much as an automobile.  Would you be willing to plop down the cash to order a new Toyota just to take a test drive?  Or would you be willing to take a few days off of work and buy a plane ticket to Arizona just to take a test drive?

So even though we can technically still buy a new Gibson from one store (or maybe a handful of stores), it's still a pretty sorry way to market their product or get it into the hands of consumers.  It's almost as if they are sending a message that they don't really want to build or sell mandolins, and if you want one, you have to REALLY want one.

Meanwhile, there are builders who are building high quality mandolins who would do anything to get their instruments into the hands of players.  Folks like Collings, Weber, etc., are filling up the huge vacuum that Gibson apparently isn't interested in addressing.  If it's true that their corporate mentality is such that guitars are the only focus, and mandolins are of no interest to them, then fine.  But they are currently in the process of killing off a historical and traditional piece of Americana in the process.

I'd love to own a Dave Harvey mandolin.  Maybe one day he will take the same road as Bruce Weber and start his own line.  He would be every bit as successful, I'm sure.

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## foldedpath

> If it's true that their corporate mentality is such that guitars are the only focus, and mandolins are of no interest to them, then fine.  But they are currently in the process of killing off a historical and traditional piece of Americana in the process.


Lest we forget, it wouldn't be the first time they did that. 

Years ago, they acquired the Dobro® brand, and they have done next to nothing to actually advance or promote the brand since they bought it. After a few years of offering a slightly larger product line, they ended up marketing only a fairly rough entry-level Hound Dog model and then a big jump to a very expensive signature model, with nothing in between. As far as I can tell, their Dobro® guitars are now in the same limbo as the banjos.

Meanwhile the spider-cone resonator world moved elsewhere, to small shop builders at the high end, and cheap PacRim imports at the low end. Gibson had a chance to do what the National Reso-Phonic did to revive the National brand... recreate a few classics, along with new innovative designs... and they blew it. 

Maybe there is still enough corporate pride in the fact that their company name is associated with the classic Loar design, so the same thing won't happen to the mandolins.

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## Nick Triesch

Look,  Gibson just must not make enough money on Bluegrass instruments.    I bet they make a ton on guitars.  Also,  here is another point...A few years ago our top super instrument store had just about all the top brands of mandolins.  You could try a bunch of Collings and Webers

 for example.  But I remember the instrument buyer told me that they just could not compete with the Mandolin Store.   Now Buffalo Bros.   has very few mandolins on the wall.  So maybe Gibson has decided that most sales will be from the internet in the future.  The high end stuff in music store could be history.  Tobin,  I know you are a thousand miles away from the Mandolin store but I bet they sell every Gibson mandolin they get in in no time.  Maybe the days of trying out a mandolin are over.  I have a friend who bought a new Weber from the Mandolin Store a few years ago but did not love it.  He sent it back and bought another new Weber from them and it is his dream mandolin.  So maybe this is the new standard of buying?  Also,  the people that want to buy a Gibson that cost as much as a car will find a way to get one with a few phone calls.

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## Nick Triesch

I think what Gibson is doing is all planned.   By doing this they are making the mandolin brand have a certain untouchable elegance.  They want them rare on purpose.   Only for the very few.  Kind of like a 2014 Porsche 911 turbo.    Sorry,  I'm a car guy.  That is all I could come up with but you get the point.

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hank

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## allenhopkins

Gibson makes its money selling electric guitars; they provide a bewildering variety of Les Paul models, plus a bunch of others.  They have outsourced all their lower-priced acoustics to Asia (Epiphone, Flatiron), as well as their entry-to-mid-level electrics.  They do continue to make some nice acoustic guitars (pricey, though) in Montana.  I think they're making Dobros in Asia too.

Mandolins?  Do they sell one mandolin for every thousand electric guitars?  Doubt it.  Banjos?  Ditto.  While I do believe that there are Gibson personnel who respect, maybe even cherish, their long tradition of producing top-quality acoustic stringed instruments other than guitars, it's pretty clear that they aren't driving the company's business plan.

Which is as it should be, although it hurts to say it.  The purpose of a manufacturer in a capitalist economy, is to maximize profits.  If Gibson could make more money emphasizing mandolins, Dobros and banjos, they'd do it.  It's good that they're producing mandolins that are generally considered very special, even if only in limited numbers.

"Killing off a piece of Americana" is the flip side of "progress."  You can't buy an Oldsmobile car, a Stromberg-Carlson radio, an IBM personal computer, or a Piper Cub.  There are more types and makers of quality mandolins now than there have been since before WWII.  Gibson's place in the current market is evolving; we can hope that they'll step up mandolin production in the future, but don't look for them to do it out of nostalgia.

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Austin Bob, 

hank, 

Rush Burkhardt, 

tkdboyd, 

waynef

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## jesserules

> Gibson makes its money selling electric guitars; they provide a bewildering variety of Les Paul models, plus a bunch of others.  They have outsourced all their lower-priced acoustics to Asia (Epiphone, Flatiron), as well as their entry-to-mid-level electrics.  They do continue to make some nice acoustic guitars (pricey, though) in Montana.  I think they're making Dobros in Asia too.
> 
> Mandolins?  Do they sell one mandolin for every thousand electric guitars?  Doubt it.  Banjos?  Ditto.  While I do believe that there are Gibson personnel who respect, maybe even cherish, their long tradition of producing top-quality acoustic stringed instruments other than guitars, it's pretty clear that they aren't driving the company's business plan.
> 
> Which is as it should be, although it hurts to say it.  The purpose of a manufacturer in a capitalist economy, is to maximize profits.  If Gibson could make more money emphasizing mandolins, Dobros and banjos, they'd do it.  It's good that they're producing mandolins that are generally considered very special, even if only in limited numbers.
> 
> "Killing off a piece of Americana" is the flip side of "progress."  You can't buy an Oldsmobile car, a Stromberg-Carlson radio, an IBM personal computer, or a Piper Cub.  There are more types and makers of quality mandolins now than there have been since before WWII.  Gibson's place in the current market is evolving; we can hope that they'll step up mandolin production in the future, but don't look for them to do it out of nostalgia.



as foldedpath observed:

National Reso-Phonic.

They aren't in the _nostalgia_ business. They make a product people want, and people give them money in exchange.

I know it sounds crazy ...

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Austin Bob

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## Clef

There are several videos on Youtube showing the Gibson guitar factory.  They have a huge quantity of staff pumping out electric guitars like crazy.  Gibson Les Paul guitars are expensive as well.  I can walk into the local Guitar Center and play a few dozen Les Paul guitars.  That's where they are making all of their money.

Regardless of how many guitars they sell vs mandolins, they still make mandolins.  The webmaster at Gibson could have the mandolin pages online within a few hours.  It doesn't take that long to put products on a webpage.  Who knows what's going on with the executives at Gibson, but I hope they don't stop the mandolin production.

It's obvious that David Harvey takes great pride and effort to carry on the legacy of Gibson mandolins.  Anyone who owns or has played one of his mandolin knows how incredible they are.

Look at the Collings mandolin production.  They are making way more mandolins than Gibson.  Collings mandolins are fantastic as well.  Gibson could do the same thing if the corporate executives wanted to increase production.  Gibson isn't selling very many mandolins because there are very few out there to be purchased.  When I was looking to buy a new Gibson F5, I wanted the Goldrush model.  I had to do a national search to find one to buy and there were only two available in the entire country at that time.

I have to take my hat off to Harvey for producing fine mandolins because I'm sure he has to roll with the punches at Gibson to keep his quality as high as it is.

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## f5loar

Maybe Gibson should go back to their "golden" years of advertising in 1923.  In a magazine ad from 1923 was a full color page of the new Master Model Mandolin style F-5.  All you had to do was fill out and mail in the little coupon at the bottom of the ad which said "I would like to try a Master Mandolin. Please ship one on 10 days approval to my address below."  So for the price of a stamp (2 cents) you got a signed Loar F5 shipped to your door free of charge.  If you didn't like it after 10 days you sent it back with no questions asked.  If you liked it you sent them $250 plus $25 if it had a case or you could sign up for Gibson's no interest payment plan.  Where's the time machine!

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Austin Bob, 

Bob Clark, 

Gary Hedrick, 

hank, 

Hendrik Ahrend, 

jesserules, 

Markus

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## Mike Bunting

> Maybe Gibson should go back to their "golden" years of advertising in 1923.  In a magazine ad from 1923 was a full color page of the new Master Model Mandolin style F-5.  All you had to do was fill out and mail in the little coupon at the bottom of the ad which said "I would like to try a Master Mandolin. Please ship one on 10 days approval to my address below."  So for the price of a stamp (2 cents) you got a signed Loar F5 shipped to your door free of charge.  If you didn't like it after 10 days you sent it back with no questions asked.  If you liked it you sent them $250 plus $25 if it had a case or you could sign up for Gibson's no interest payment plan.  Where's the time machine!


I even know the serial number of the one I'd buy!

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Austin Bob, 

hank

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## Austin Bob

> Where's the time machine!


I once built a time machine.
I remember it like it was tomorrow.

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Pete Jenner

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## John Ritchhart

I built a time machine too. But I could only get back to here.

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## Tobin

> Tobin,  I know you are a thousand miles away from the Mandolin store but I bet they sell every Gibson mandolin they get in in no time.  Maybe the days of trying out a mandolin are over.


But that begs the question: if they sell out every new Gibson they get in a matter of days, isn't Gibson missing an opportunity to make more money by not ramping up production?  The demand is obviously there.  I mean, they don't need to start making them by the thousands, but even adding 50% more capacity in the shop might be very profitable.




> I think what Gibson is doing is all planned.   By doing this they are making the mandolin brand have a certain untouchable elegance.  They want them rare on purpose.   Only for the very few.


Well, it's actually a pretty good point.  I don't know if this is really their intent, but that's the way it has turned out.  "Untouchable elegance" can be an effective strategy for keeping the price point high.  And to be honest, I'd rather see Gibson focus on producing only the highest quality mandolins, even if it's only a few per year, rather than start mass-producing junk like they were doing in the '70s.

So maybe it is the best thing after all.  By limiting their mandolin production to only hand-made, top-quality instruments, they can ensure that their reputation remains intact.  And it does put them on equal footing with high-end small-shop producers who do only custom builds.  

This is perhaps where Collings is making a mistake.  They do make nice mandolins, but they're _everywhere_.  The price for a new one just can't go up when the market is flooded with used ones.  Gibson may be taking the opposite approach, after many decades of learning that lesson.

Interesting thoughts!

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## jim33

I spoke to Bryan at the mandolin store who is their set up guy.  He said that David Harvey would like to increase the work force to produce them faster, but it will be done slowly so as to maintain quality.

I ordered an F5g 1 5/32 nut which is called the wide nut and is fully bound.  I will have to wait 60 to 90 days for it, which is fine with me.   It is a mandolin store only instrument, they helped design it.  He told me that these mandolins being built now are the best ever in his opinion.  They (the mandolin store) have made similar remarks on youtube.  

The best Gibson mandolin descriptions are on the mandolin store site.

They offer 48 hour approval, so if you don't like it you are only out the shipping.

It seems to me that it is cool to get a limited number of high quality instruments.  If you really want one they are available.

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## Austin Bob

> I spoke to Bryan at the mandolin store who is their set up guy.  He said that David Harvey would like to increase the work force to produce them faster, but it will be done slowly so as to maintain quality.
> 
> I ordered an F5g 1 5/32 nut which is called the wide nut and is fully bound.  I will have to wait 60 to 90 days for it, which is fine with me.   It is a mandolin store only instrument, they helped design it.  He told me that these mandolins being built now are the best ever in his opinion.  They (the mandolin store) have made similar remarks on youtube.  
> 
> The best Gibson mandolin descriptions are on the mandolin store site.
> 
> They offer 48 hour approval, so if you don't like it you are only out the shipping.
> 
> It seems to me that it is cool to get a limited number of high quality instruments.  If you really want one they are available.


Jim, I have that mandolin, I bought it last year from TMS, and I'm very pleased. It sounds great, everyone who's played it is pleasantly surprised.

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## mandopops

Bob & Jim,

I have the F5G-Wide on order from the Mandolin Store, as well. Heard so much about the new Gibson's, so I'm upgrading from a 90's F5G. I like the features, a retirement/Xmas present from my Family. 3 cheers for my family.

Bob, glad to hear the positive feedback. I'll just wait for mine to arrive.

Joe

----------

Austin Bob

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## AlanN

So, is TMS the only dealer to get a new Gibson mandolin from these days? There used to be several (Jackson's Music in Winston-Salem was one). Not sure I'm reading that right. If so, sounds like a bridge thingy in Jersey....

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## Herbm55

> ........This is perhaps where Collings is making a mistake.  They do make nice mandolins, but they're _everywhere_......


 Collings has responded to the needs of a market and they are everywhere because a lot of people are buying them. Gibson has done the very same thing, except with the Les Paul.   :Smile:   In the meantime, they have lost the banjo market and appear to be trying their best to do the same with mandolins. I hope they right the ship.

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## jim33

Bob, Thanks for the input.  I am looking forward to it.

Alan, TMS is not the only source for Gibsons.  They apparently are the source for some models that they helped develop.

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## Verne Andru

I'm not convinced Gibson engineered the Nashville flood just so they could create a false scarcity in their products, but it would make an interesting "who-dun-it" premise.

Let's not forget that Gibson sells a ton of mandolins each year - they're called Epiphone.

As much as those that have played for a while appreciate a really nice instrument, the bulk of the business is in the mid-to-low-end of the market. Serving that market with low-cost Epiphones while working to build back Gibson's brand reputation [which was taking a serious beating] by keeping an eye on QC makes as much sense as any other business strategy IMHO.

And then there were the raids by the Feds to factor in.

All in all, Gibson had a pretty tough run for a while there and I'm very happy to see they're doing what it takes to keep things moving forward and working to improve their product offerings.

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## mandotrout777

> So, is TMS the only dealer to get a new Gibson mandolin from these days? There used to be several (Jackson's Music in Winston-Salem was one). Not sure I'm reading that right. If so, sounds like a bridge thingy in Jersey....


Janet Davis, Morgan Music, there are probably others who carry them on a regular basis. I talked to a guy on the Gibson forum who ordered one through a dealer in Pittsburgh. He said the wait was 8 to 10 weeks and he had to put 50 percent down, but it was worth it because they gave him a big discount. I've seen them showing up at places that normally only carry Gibson guitars, especially Custom Shop guitars. 

But...I've bought two from TMS and have been very satisfied. They really do go out of their way to make you happy.

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## Terry Allan Hall

> An original mandolin guitar, I'd like to pick on that one...

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## Austin Bob

> So, is TMS the only dealer to get a new Gibson mandolin from these days? There used to be several (Jackson's Music in Winston-Salem was one). Not sure I'm reading that right. If so, sounds like a bridge thingy in Jersey....


The Guitar Center has several listed on their website, not sure what the stocking level is.

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## Verne Andru

> 


That is most cool. Be nice to see an Epi version of that. Although I can see where the placement of the toggle between the mando and guitar bridges could be a problem.

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## Jeff Hildreth

This is simple.

Gibson gets a higher return on their investment in building flat-top guitars than they do in building mandolins or ordering parts to assemble banjos (as opposed to actually building banjos.. which they have not done for years)

I have owned many Gibsons including mandolins:  1915 A, 1922 Snakehead ,1955 A5 etc. 

The earlier, the better.

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## almeriastrings

> I have owned many Gibsons including mandolins:  1915 A, 1922 Snakehead ,1955 A5 etc. 
> 
> The earlier, the better.


Totally disagree with that. With the exception of the late 'teens through mid 20's period when they did make some outstanding stuff, for many decades much of their output varied from distinctly average to unbelievably bad. Sorry - but I'd take a recent Harvey signed model (Fern, F5G, Goldrush, MM) over a 1930's through 1980's instrument without even having to think about it. Things did not really improve until Charlie Derrington took charge and restored their reputation at long last. The most recent output has been (in my opinion and many others) the best since the Loar period.

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mandotrout777

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## Ivan Kelsall

From NickT - _" They want them rare on purpose..."_. Well,Nick,there's rare & un-obtainable,which according to one poster on here,unless you order one - un-obtainable is it !!.
   Thank goodness that there are so many fine builders of mandolins totally divorced from Gibson to choose from. However,it really is hard for me to get my head around how Gibson 'seem' to be ignoring their mandolin & banjo fans. It's not for nothing that these 2 instruments have become such icons in the hands of Bill Monroe,Earl Scruggs & many great musicians who came after - at the time they were the _very best_ that you could buy. I don't know so much about the Gibson banjos these days,of the last 2 new ones i played a RB250 & RB75,the RB250 was abysmal & the RB75 was just about on a par with the Chinese built Gold Star 're-issue' i bought. However re.the current 'Harvey built' mandolins,as Almeria says above,& from what i've read on here,they are certainly the very finest mandolins from Gibson in a Long time. Most companies 'build' on a good product,if they don't there's a chance that they're going to be 'back-burnered' & customers will go elsewhere. Even if a company such as Gibson should choose to resurrect their mandolins in the future,that's no guarantee of sales. Right now,Gibson aren't _''keeping their (potential) customers satisfied''_. Personally,as the guy who seems to be single handedly keeping the Gibson mando.boat afloat,Mr Dave Harvey,i'd love to hear (read), what he has to say about the current (lack of) marketing by Gibson & the true state of play re.their mandolin production, & how Gibson see it as part of their operation. Currently it looks more of an 'add-on' than a serious attempt to pursuade us all to ''buy Gibson'', :Frown: 
                                                         Ivan :Mandosmiley:

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## almeriastrings

They used to boast "Only a Gibson is Good Enough" - but these days, you have Collings, Northfield, Weber and dozens of other small/independent builders more than capable of filling in the gap with instruments that are certainly more than good enough...

Not really a time to take your eye off the ball I'd have thought.

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## AlanN

> 


Lovely...and I think of Jimmy Page for some reason.

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## Nick Triesch

Ivan,  I just think right now there is a down turn in interest in high end mandolins.   They cost a ton!   And if some one is interested in learning there are some wonderful PAC Rim models to choose from.   Also,  many super less expensive mandolins are also very pretty to the eye.  So many young folks see them at a music store and think that they look better than the ones costing thousands more.  I think it is the times we live in.  I don't think there are tons of folks waiting in line to buy Gibson mandolins right now or any super high end mandos for that matter.  What is interesting is that guitar players like my Son would give anything to have a real deal American Les Paul or a Fender Strat.  It is just the times and not enough demand.   Lets use Winchester model 94 for example.  After over 100 years making this rifle, the company pulled the plug on this famous rifle .  Then a few years later they started to offer it again on a very limited basis at a huge cost.   A few years ago you could buy the model 94 at Big 5 for $300!!   Maybe Gibson will do the same.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Hi Nick - I tend to agree with what you say,but,_some_ folk are still buying top end mandolins. Over the past 5 months,i've read of 2 Gibson 'Goldrush' & 2 Ellis F5 purchases on here. As i said in an earlier post,if Gibson still wish to sell mandolins to us,they have to display their goods to their potential customers. In a way,we are spoiled by having so many builders of top flight instruments,but again,as i said,for some folk, only a Gibson is good enough. The name still has mucho kudos attached to it because it was 'what Bill played'. I have to say that having seen the beautiful Goldrush models that have been issued under Dave Harvey's rule,that i'd love one myself - only the lack of the necessary shekels deprives me of that pleasure ( or the pleasure of owning my 'other' favourite - an Ellis). If Gibson are still serious about building mandolins,especially of the current quality,then they need to shape up big time. That's why i said i'd really like to hear what Dave Harvey has to say about the current situation.
We can speculate all we like,but only the current 'main man' could tell us _''what's really up with Gibson''_,
                                                                                                                                                  Ivan

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## Mandobar

Last I looked on the US trademark database the Dobro brand, along with Flatiron belonged to Bank of America.  These were obviously used as collateral for loans.  Lenders get nervous when you have legal issues.   Friend of mine, who is a Gibson dealer, told me that they can no longer order custom acoustic guitars, so production of certain products is limited.  Obviously they are being careful with their money, so we will just have to wait and see what happens.  In looking at the new line of electrics four 2014, they seem to be offering more of the mid priced models.  They have also gone to masking dealers use floor planning for financing their purchases, which is what auto dealer do.  I believe Taylor Guitars was doing this also.  I think Guitar Center has made a lot of manufacturers nervous.  Fender is talking now about selling direct like Carvin.

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## Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Yeah I always loved this group....McLaughlin definately has a really clean smooth and tight Monroe style approach to his playing...I dare say, even cleaner than Bill himself ( Ok now I'm in trouble!!!!

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## Hendrik Ahrend

> Yeah I always loved this group....McLaughlin definately has a really clean smooth and tight Monroe style approach to his playing...I dare say, even cleaner than Bill himself ( Ok now I'm in trouble!!!!


Right so, Eric, in trouble for being in the wrong thread, that is.  :Smile:

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Eric Michael Pfeiffer

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## Eric Michael Pfeiffer

> Right so, Eric, in trouble for being in the wrong thread, that is.



Gosh you're right! LOL

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## yankees1

> I'm really not confusing anything. I made a statement, it holds true. You can either agree or disagree but what I said is what I said.


 Come on boys, hold it down or the moderator will close this thread !  :Smile:

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## Elliot Luber

This started as a question about their Web presence failing to show their mandolins. I just feel that if they're trying to hold onto the high end of the market they should feature the instruments that are sometimes available. I get the fact that they're putting their emphasis into guitars, but a simple page representing their mandolins shouldn't be too difficult or costly considering what they lose through omission, and someone responded that they were in the middle of revamping the pages. I know mentioning the name Gibson can be throwing red meat, because people love them and others love to bash them. I love them, though I can't afford their instruments, and I love the work of a million small manufacturers but the economics of high-end mandolins are impacting the market for sure. We see Kimble moving away from scrolls, etc. It's ironic that we're in a period of great innovation and artistry in mandolin making, yet the industry's ability to sustain production -- especially Gibson which suffered a natural disaster -- is somewhat in question. Henry at Gibson did a great job of saving this iconic brand, and I bet he'll do it again.

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## Canoedad

If younger/newer mandolin players can't go to the Gibson website and dream, then they'll go to other builders websites and do it.  And when their dream finally comes true, it likely won't be a Gibson.

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## f5loar

Just got word over at the Banjo Hangout (sorry, I play the banjo too) and it appears Gibson is dropping the Earl Scruggs strings.  Anybody know about the status of the Monroe strings, other then being really expensive (compared to similar like brands)?

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## mandotrout777

> Just got word over at the Banjo Hangout (sorry, I play the banjo too) and it appears Gibson is dropping the Earl Scruggs strings.  Anybody know about the status of the Monroe strings, other then being really expensive (compared to similar like brands)?


The Bill Monroe strings are still shown as available on the Gibson website, but then again so are the Scruggs banjo strings. I use the Monroe strings a lot of the time and my local shop still has them. They don't have any more of the Scruggs strings.

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## Elliot Luber

Thought this was apropos.

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## Mandobar

There are several schools of thought concerning musical instrument builders.  Go whole hog with the adverts and web presence or fly below the radar.  Perhaps they've chosen the latter.  It works for Wayne Henderson and a few others.  Why not Gibson?

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## Jeff Hildreth

"Totally disagree with that. With the exception of the late 'teens through mid 20's period when they did make some outstanding stuff, for many decades much of their output varied from distinctly average to unbelievably bad. Sorry - but I'd take a recent Harvey signed model (Fern, F5G, Goldrush, MM) over a 1930's through 1980's instrument without even having to think about it. Things did not really improve until Charlie Derrington took charge and restored their reputation at long last. The most recent output has been (in my opinion and many others) the best since the Loar period. "

I believe we agree that the earlier period of the teens and twenties produced superior instruments.

I disagree that later models were all that great.  Case by case.  I have seen and played some very disappointing "new golden age" stuff.  I also believe there are many makers who rival Gibson's curent efforts... too many to name them all.

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## Mike Bunting

You have Gilchrist, Duff, Heiden, Kimble, Red Diamond, Stanley, Mowry, Collings, Altman, Ellis, Daley, Brock, Dudenbostel, LaPlant, Brentrup, Buckeye et al (and apologies to the great builders I have missed). building the best mandolins of the century, a golden age of mandolin building. Ask me if I give a hoot what Gibson does.

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Phil Goodson, 

Zissou Intern

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## Nick Triesch

Yup you do,  but I would sure  like to have the original F5 that started it all!   I talked to a Gibson dealer here in the west that told me the new Gibson mandolins sound fantastic.  Also,  more professional Bluegrass players play Gibson mandolins.  Must be a reason?

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## almeriastrings

> Yup you do,  but I would sure  like to have the original F5 that started it all!   I talked to a Gibson dealer here in the west that told me the new Gibson mandolins sound fantastic.  Also,  more professional Bluegrass players play Gibson mandolins.  Must be a reason?


I think "the NAME" does have a lot to do with it. You still get that "wow... it's a real Gibson" effect.... unless you are playing to a bunch of hard-core mandophiles, 99% of people (even many guitar players) will never have heard of Gilchrist, Ellis, Heiden, Stanley and the rest. As far far as they're concerned, could be a $500 copy.... they have no idea, but they have heard of Gibson. Even back in the 70's when Gibson's were really bad, many players still wanted one..just like they wanted a Martin guitar (and Gibson banjo). The effect of the brand name is very powerful.

Sure, they are now many fine builders. More than ever. Quite a few put out things that in many ways are the equal of or surpass Gibson. But Gibson are very much a part of the bluegrass heritage, Bill and his F5, Earl and his flathead... and it has been good to see them (finally) putting our some mandolins again truly worthy of their great name. Even if you play or prefer something else, who can't have felt disappointed with the nose-dive they took in the 60's/70's, and despite any other preferences, feel a bit of a warm glow when you pick up a recent MM, Fern, Goldrush or whatever.

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## Ivan Kelsall

I totally agree Almeria - All the more puzzling re.why Gibson aren't setting out to capitalise on their mandolins. Maybe they reason that there are enough already in circulation to satisfy the demand,but it hardly seems a realistic viewpoint !.
   From Mike Bunting - _"Ask me if I give a hoot what Gibson does."_. Adopting a less selfish attitude,ask a person who wants to buy a new Gibson what they think,
                                                                                                                                                 Ivan :Confused:

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## notneils

It's also worth mentioning that, brand name aside, the Gibsons are real pretty.  Guitar shopping with my son, we tried a $3200 Gibson that didn't really sound any better than some guitars half the price, but it sure _looked_ better.  And that means a lot to a lot of people - as well, of course, as playing the same brand their heroes play (Clapton plays a Fender Strat, every 16 year old wants a Fender Strat, Bill played a Gibson...)

But i would agree with the posters who listed a plethora of equivalent and superior brand names.  I believe we are living in something of a golden age of luthier-ing (luthieing? nah, sounds like a winter olympics sport), for mandolins, guitars and lots more.

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David Rambo, 

Mike Bunting

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## jim33

Ivan,  I want to buy a Gibson mandolin and I have had no problem finding all the information I need and a source to buy it from.

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Mike Bunting

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## Mike Bunting

> I totally agree Almeria - All the more puzzling re.why Gibson aren't setting out to capitalise on their mandolins. Maybe they reason that there are enough already in circulation to satisfy the demand,but it hardly seems a realistic viewpoint !.
>    From Mike Bunting - _"Ask me if I give a hoot what Gibson does."_. Adopting a less selfish attitude,ask a person who wants to buy a new Gibson what they think,
>                                                                                                                                                  Ivan


You missed the point.

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## Nick Triesch

Dang Mike,  we cannot mind read!

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## mandotrout777

Just to bring this full circle; there are a handful of mandolins on the Gibson site again. They're listed as "Gibson Custom" instead of OAI.

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DataNick

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## Ivan Kelsall

From Mike Bunting -_ "Ask me if I give a hoot what Gibson does."_. And just which part of that did i miss ?. We all know without you needing to tell us of the _other_ builders,this thread is about *Gibson* - or did you miss the point !,
                                                                                                                                                     Ivan

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## Misty Stanley-Jones

Here is the link: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou.../Mandolin.aspx

If you click an individual model, you are still taken to a page over a year old (based in the ages of the comments) and notice that the title of the page (at the top of the browser window or in the tab) says Dobro before the mandolin model name.

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## mandotrout777

> Here is the link: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou.../Mandolin.aspx
> 
> If you click an individual model, you are still taken to a page over a year old (based in the ages of the comments) and notice that the title of the page (at the top of the browser window or in the tab) says Dobro before the mandolin model name.


Sorry, I'm not seeing Dobro anywhere. Maybe they're still tweaking things. There is a comment on the Sam Bush model page that's only 3 days old.

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## foldedpath

Notice that the year selection on the left defaults to "All," and if you click the year 2014 it says "There are no 2014 Mandolin guitars currently available." Mandolin guitars? 

I think the web site is either being rebuilt (and poorly, in terms of interim info), or else it's just way out of sync with whatever is actually going on with current mandolin production.

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## Caleb

Gibson will always have that old American mistique for a lot of folks. I'd take a Gibson mandolin (and I've never even played one), just like I'd take a Martin guitar, just to say I have one. But I'll likely never go out of my way to make either of those things happen.

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Mike Bunting

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## mandotrout777

> Notice that the year selection on the left defaults to "All," and if you click the year 2014 it says "There are no 2014 Mandolin guitars currently available." Mandolin guitars? 
> 
> I think the web site is either being rebuilt (and poorly, in terms of interim info), or else it's just way out of sync with whatever is actually going on with current mandolin production.


I agree it seems rather disjointed. Based on what happens with the guitar models, selecting the 2014 model year is supposed to show you new models introduced in 2014(??). No new mandolins introduced in 2014, so "...no 2014 'Mandolin guitars' currently available". Looks like their "not currently available" web page template says something like "There are no 2014 [insert model name here] guitars currently available". Not that any of this really matters. At least they are still building mandolins. Now, if you're hankering for a Gibson banjo...

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## Bernie Daniel

> "Totally disagree with that. With the exception of the late 'teens through mid 20's period when they did make some outstanding stuff, for many decades much of their output varied from distinctly average to unbelievably bad. Sorry - but I'd take a recent Harvey signed model (Fern, F5G, Goldrush, MM) over a 1930's through 1980's instrument without even having to think about it. Things did not really improve until Charlie Derrington took charge and restored their reputation at long last. The most recent output has been (in my opinion and many others) the best since the Loar period. "
> 
> I believe we agree that the earlier period of the teens and twenties produced superior instruments.
> 
> I disagree that later models were all that great.  Case by case.  I have seen and played some very disappointing "new golden age" stuff.  I also believe there are many makers who rival Gibson's curent efforts... too many to name them all.


That may be your experience.  I'm not sure *specifically* what Gibson mandolins (models, years) you found lacking but whatever each person has an opinion.  On the other hand, without exception *every person* I know who has actually tried a David Harvey era Gibson mandolin (post flood) has said that they are the best since the Loar-era. The two that I have personally seen (both F-models) and played are IMO better than the Loar era or any other mandolin I've seen. 

And yes, I agree you can buy other brands of mandolins that might be equal to Gibson in sound etc -- but none of these other brands no matter how good they are -- not one of them -- were made by the Company the *invented the F-5* (that would be Gibson) and none of them (except Ibanez) were played on stage by Bill Monroe.  And that is just a fact!  :Smile:    Just saying............

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## Mike Bunting

> From Mike Bunting -_ "Ask me if I give a hoot what Gibson does."_. And just which part of that did i miss ?. We all know without you needing to tell us of the _other_ builders,this thread is about *Gibson* - or did you miss the point !,
>                                                                                                                                                      Ivan


I think you missed the part about how to use punctuation.

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## foldedpath

> At least they are still building mandolins. Now, if you're hankering for a Gibson banjo...


Or a Dobro®... let's not forget how they wasted that branding opportunity.

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## fatt-dad

I'd sure like to have the A5 that started it all!

f-d

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doc holiday

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## Roin

> While we mandolin players quite rightly bemoan Gibson's 'apparent' lack of interest in promoting their mandolins & banjos,personally,i can see their point re. caring more about their guitars etc. Gibson have for a very long time produced guitars just as iconic in their own way as Gibson mandolins & banjos. Gibson most likely sell 100's of new guitars for every new mandolin / banjo sold,so if this is where they make their money,can we really blame them for cashing in & keeping the Co.going ?. However,for those of us wishing to buy a new Gibson mandolin,they should at least be making an effort to place their goods in front of us. How else are we to know what instruments are available ?. For Dave Harvey to seemingly have to 'market' Gibson mandolins on his _personal Facebook account_ seems totally ridiculous to me !. I totally agree with Almeria,that the quality of the mandolins put out under Dave Harvey's tenure have been built to a very high standard & have gained a reputation for being superb instruments in every respect. I feel almost as though Gibson don't deserve to have their name on the headstock if they apparently care so little. All the more credit to Dave Harvey & his team that _'we'_ still care,
>                                                                                                                         Ivan


Well if you could buy Gibson Mandolins in germany at any other shop than thomann I'd be happy to give them some german money, for I could afford at least something like an A-9 and yet  I cant buy it... so oh well I suppose it isnt my fault -_-

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## Bernie Daniel

> Or a Dobro®... let's not forget how they wasted that branding opportunity.


I like Gibson, obviously, but I agree with you on that.  They frittered away the names Flatiron and Epiphone too!  Next the "Mastertone" will wither and die because they dropped banjos.  The company has definitely had (still has?) the headless horseman syndrome over the years!  Bring back Orville and Loyd!

And why no one at Gibson had the presence of mind to copyright the name "F-5" is beyond me.  Their lawyers seem good at suing people but at forward thinking not so much?

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## mandotrout777

> I like Gibson, obviously, but I agree with you on that.  They frittered away the names Flatiron and Epiphone too!  Next the "Mastertone" will wither and die because they dropped banjos.  The company has definitely had (still has?) the headless horseman syndrome over the years!  Bring back Orville and Loyd!
> 
> And why no one at Gibson had the presence of mind to copyright the name "F-5" is beyond me.  Their lawyers seem good at suing people but at forward thinking not so much?


It's pretty clear the corporate guys aren't much interested in anything but electric guitars. Just check out the "History" tab on their site. From reading that it would appear that nothing much happened before the development of the electric guitar pickup.

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## bohemianbiker

Looks like they've fixed the web site problem.  If you click on "acoustic instruments" you'll see a list on the left, one of which says "mandolins," and that takes you to the mandos.  bb

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## Elliot Luber

Good. I don't think they were "abandoning" mandolins, but I think they're focusing in the survival mode after the flood and other atypical problems that impacted the business.  They're ensuring Gibson will be around for us.

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## fentonjames

long ago, guitars didn't come first...

http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrin...linlabelLG.jpg

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## Elliot Luber

Yes. Times have certainly changed but that's the music business today.

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