# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  The ultimate OLD and IN THE WAY

## SternART

Listening to this recording brought back some great memories for me:

Old And In The Way turned out to be one of the most influential Bluegrass bands ever, introducing the genre to a new generation, and the live album of the same name became one of the biggest selling Bluegrass albums of all time. Now 40 years later, David Grismans Acoustic Oasis has a new Hi-Def download of not one but two complete shows, entitled Old and in the Way Live at the Boarding House. It is also available in CD or MP3 quality downloads, with actual CDs available soon. Recorded by the infamous Owsley Stanley III, mixed live to 2 track on a Nagra, at San Franciscos Boarding House in October of 1973, the HI-DEF version gets you as close as possible to the Master tapes. The original live record came out in 1975 and is culled from the 2nd of these shows. Grisman is a true musicologist and has restored the order of the tunes to exactly how they were played at the two shows a week apart, with 2 complete sets for each show.

A little background if youre new to OAITW. The band as recorded here has two of Bill Monroes ex-Bluegrass Boys: Peter Rowan (guitar & vocals) and Vassar Clements (fiddle). Add David Grisman (mandolin & vocals) and the Grateful Deads Jerry Garcia (banjo & vocals) with John Kahn his bass player from the Jerry Garcia Band.

Now back in 1973, I was a tie-dyed long-haired counterculture Deadhead living in the San Francisco Bay Area going to art school. I followed Garcias other projects outside of the Grateful Dead, going to small clubs around the Bay Area whenever the word was out he was playing somewhere, and he played a lot. The Bay Area was rich with great bands, and lots of small clubs. These were the days when psychedelic rock ruled, and most of the counterculture didnt know much about Bluegrass or the likes of Bill Monroe, Lester Flat, Earl Scruggs and the Stanley Brothers. I had heard about Jerry playing banjo in jug bands down in Palo Alto prior to going electric with the Warlocks and then the Grateful Dead, but had never seen it. The only other instrument other than guitar Id seen him play was pedal steel with the New Riders of the Purple Sage, who would open the show sometimes for the Dead.

The first time I ever heard the band OAITW was from the Record Plant in Sausalito, live on KSAN the hippie rock radio station, and I loved it, thinking to myself ....what is Garcia up to now? There were a few gigs that weekend that I missed. Then the following weekend they were at the Keystone Berkeley and I was waiting in line early, to get a spot near the stage.

The band came out dressed like long-haired hippie cowboys, and when they started playing I was mesmerized by the mandolin player. He was driving the band rhythmically, complex rhythms with an emphasis on the backbeat, and his syncopated solos were in a rapid fire series of notes, that were obviously improvised but still carefully crafted melodies. Who was this bearded guy stealing the limelight from Garcia? He was introduced by Peter Rowan as David Dawg Grisman and I recognized the name from the Grateful Dead album American Beauty that came out a few years earlier. The fiddle player that night was Richard Greene; in fact he played in the band the first few months. He too was a great soloist, also an alum of Bill Monroes Bluegrass Boys, and of course Monroe is the Father of Bluegrass, so a great credit to have on your resume. The complex acoustic music was fabulous and totally new to my ears, so different from the extended solos I was used to from rock music. The solos were short and intense, carefully designed to have a beginning and an ending exactly filling the right amount of space. It was like they made a game of playing these complex passages and stopping on a dime. And the harmony singing was so different, at first I was attracted more to the instrumentals, but found that the Bluegrass style of singing grew on me as I listened more.

They played pretty regularly for a few months at small clubs that no longer exist: Keystone Berkeley, the Inn of The Beginning in Cotati, The Lions Share in San Anselmo, and the Boarding House in San Francisco. The music consisted of what I now know are greatest hits, or Bluegrass standards, as well as originals by Peter Rowan and a few instrumentals by Grisman. The Rowan tunes spoke to the counterculture with crowd favorites like Panama Red and Lonesome LA Cowboy and they even covered the Rolling Stones hit Wild Horses. But when they played the straight ahead hard core Bluegrass these hippies could really play the genre in authentic old school fashion, and were having a lot of fun doing it. The crowd of mostly Deadheads loved it. In fact, I went several weekends in a row, before the band headed to the East Coast for a few concerts.

On this East Coast tour Vassar Clements replaced Richard Greene, and when they returned to the Bay Area, and I saw them again I was thinking now who is this older guy smoking a pipe and with an unusual carving on the headstock of his fiddle? This guy could really play and stood toe to toe with the younger guys. He improvised with ease and every note he played seemed perfect. He was an amazing virtuoso! Little did I know he was one of the most famous Bluegrass fiddlers, who had played with Bill Monroe and Jim & Jesse McReynolds. He had also recorded with younger musicians including John Hartford and Norman Blake.

The band was cooking rhythmically better than ever, and it had been just a few weeks since Id last seen them. And Vasser brought along a few of his instrumentals Lonesome Fiddle Blues and Kissimee Kid both great tunes. The harmony singing, Garcias dancing banjo licks, Rowans lead singing were all coming into focus, and they all made it look easy, like they were really enjoying themselves up there. It created a party atmosphere for the audience too.

OAITW only lasted about a year.........only played maybe 40 shows, but the live album sold incredibly well largely based on the legion of college age fans of the Grateful Dead. It is interesting to note that when Vasser joined the band he didnt even know who Jerry Garcia or the Grateful Dead were. Looking back I was fortunate to have seen them play live so many times.

The bottom line here is this band was special; the music they made was special; the chemistry of the musicians was special; their appeal to a new audience for Bluegrass and this new release from Acoustic Oasis are all special. If you are already a fan of the original OAITW record this will not disappoint you, getting to hear the two complete concerts with the tunes in the order they were originally played, and with incredible master tape sound is a treat. The live recording really captures the essence of this band. And if you dont already know this music -- get this for your collection, it is a classic!

----------

Beanzy, 

Bigtuna, 

Bogle, 

craig.collas, 

dang, 

DataNick, 

David Rambo, 

fatt-dad, 

Gary, 

Gary Hedrick, 

Glassweb, 

j. condino, 

Jordan Ramsey, 

journeybear, 

Mandobart, 

Marty Jacobson, 

mcgroup53, 

Miked, 

MysTiK PiKn, 

noah finn, 

Paul Kotapish, 

R. Kane, 

Rush Burkhardt, 

Trav'linmando, 

William Smith

----------


## SternART

Listening to this recording brought back some great memories for me:

Old And In The Way turned out to be one of the most influential Bluegrass bands ever, introducing the genre to a new generation, and the live album of the same name became one of the biggest selling Bluegrass albums of all time. Now 40 years later, David Grismans Acoustic Oasis has a new Hi-Def download of not one but two complete shows, entitled Old and in the Way Live at the Boarding House. It is also available in CD or MP3 quality downloads, with actual CDs available soon. Recorded by the infamous Owsley Stanley III, mixed live to 2 track on a Nagra, at San Franciscos Boarding House in October of 1973, the HI-DEF version gets you as close as possible to the Master tapes. The original live record came out in 1975 and is culled from the 2nd of these shows. Grisman is a true musicologist and has restored the order of the tunes to exactly how they were played at the two shows a week apart, with 2 complete sets for each show.

A little background if youre new to OAITW. The band as recorded here has two of Bill Monroes ex-Bluegrass Boys: Peter Rowan (guitar & vocals) and Vassar Clements (fiddle). Add David Grisman (mandolin & vocals) and the Grateful Deads Jerry Garcia (banjo & vocals) with John Kahn his bass player from the Jerry Garcia Band.

Now back in 1973, I was a tie-dyed long-haired counterculture Deadhead living in the San Francisco Bay Area going to art school. I followed Garcias other projects outside of the Grateful Dead, going to small clubs around the Bay Area whenever the word was out he was playing somewhere, and he played a lot. The Bay Area was rich with great bands, and lots of small clubs. These were the days when psychedelic rock ruled, and most of the counterculture didnt know much about Bluegrass or the likes of Bill Monroe, Lester Flat, Earl Scruggs and the Stanley Brothers. I had heard about Jerry playing banjo in jug bands down in Palo Alto prior to going electric with the Warlocks and then the Grateful Dead, but had never seen it. The only other instrument other than guitar Id seen him play was pedal steel with the New Riders of the Purple Sage, who would open the show sometimes for the Dead.

The first time I ever heard the band OAITW was from the Record Plant in Sausalito, live on KSAN the hippie rock radio station, and I loved it, thinking to myself ....what is Garcia up to now? There were a few gigs that weekend that I missed. Then the following weekend they were at the Keystone Berkeley and I was waiting in line early, to get a spot near the stage.

The band came out dressed like long-haired hippie cowboys, and when they started playing I was mesmerized by the mandolin player. He was driving the band rhythmically, complex rhythms with an emphasis on the backbeat, and his syncopated solos were in a rapid fire series of notes, that were obviously improvised but still carefully crafted melodies. Who was this bearded guy stealing the limelight from Garcia? He was introduced by Peter Rowan as David Dawg Grisman and I recognized the name from the Grateful Dead album American Beauty that came out a few years earlier. The fiddle player that night was Richard Greene; in fact he played in the band the first few months. He too was a great soloist, also an alum of Bill Monroes Bluegrass Boys, and of course Monroe is the Father of Bluegrass, so a great credit to have on your resume. The complex acoustic music was fabulous and totally new to my ears, so different from the extended solos I was used to from rock music. The solos were short and intense, carefully designed to have a beginning and an ending exactly filling the right amount of space. It was like they made a game of playing these complex passages and stopping on a dime. And the harmony singing was so different, at first I was attracted more to the instrumentals, but found that the Bluegrass style of singing grew on me as I listened more.

They played pretty regularly for a few months at small clubs that no longer exist: Keystone Berkeley, the Inn of The Beginning in Cotati, The Lions Share in San Anselmo, and the Boarding House in San Francisco. The music consisted of what I now know are greatest hits, or Bluegrass standards, as well as originals by Peter Rowan and a few instrumentals by Grisman. The Rowan tunes spoke to the counterculture with crowd favorites like Panama Red and Lonesome LA Cowboy and they even covered the Rolling Stones hit Wild Horses. But when they played the straight ahead hard core Bluegrass these hippies could really play the genre in authentic old school fashion, and were having a lot of fun doing it. The crowd of mostly Deadheads loved it. In fact, I went several weekends in a row, before the band headed to the East Coast for a few concerts.

On this East Coast tour Vassar Clements replaced Richard Greene, and when they returned to the Bay Area, and I saw them again I was thinking now who is this older guy smoking a pipe and with an unusual carving on the headstock of his fiddle? This guy could really play and stood toe to toe with the younger guys. He improvised with ease and every note he played seemed perfect. He was an amazing virtuoso! Little did I know he was one of the most famous Bluegrass fiddlers, who had played with Bill Monroe and Jim & Jesse McReynolds. He had also recorded with younger musicians including John Hartford and Norman Blake.

The band was cooking rhythmically better than ever, and it had been just a few weeks since Id last seen them. And Vasser brought along a few of his instrumentals Lonesome Fiddle Blues and Kissimee Kid both great tunes. The harmony singing, Garcias dancing banjo licks, Rowans lead singing were all coming into focus, and they all made it look easy, like they were really enjoying themselves up there. It created a party atmosphere for the audience too.

OAITW only lasted about a year.........only played maybe 40 shows, but the live album sold incredibly well largely based on the legion of college age fans of the Grateful Dead. It is interesting to note that when Vasser joined the band he didnt even know who Jerry Garcia or the Grateful Dead were. Looking back I was fortunate to have seen them play live so many times.

The bottom line here is this band was special; the music they made was special; the chemistry of the musicians was special; their appeal to a new audience for Bluegrass and this new release from Acoustic Oasis are all special. If you are already a fan of the original OAITW record this will not disappoint you, getting to hear the two complete concerts with the tunes in the order they were originally played, and with incredible master tape sound is a treat. The live recording really captures the essence of this band. And if you dont already know this music -- get this for your collection, it is a classic!

----------

Gary Hedrick, 

j. condino, 

Jim M., 

Rush Burkhardt

----------


## yankees1

I have the original LP album that I bought new when it first came out !

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## AlanN

Thanks for the fun read, SternART...sure beats capo chatter. 

By all means, get the OAITW release from AD. The HD-FLAC sounds terrific. And what fun to once again hear that gal calling out in a plaintive voice for Foggy Mountain Breakdown. 

Anything Garcia touched back then brought out the hordes. I remember The Gold Ol' Boys playing in Saratoga, NY (FW hometown, still) to promote that record Pistol Packin' Mama, from the same era. This was Frank, Chubby Wise, Don Reno, David Nelson and a lucky bass man. Garcia produced. It had the Monroe thing, plus the NRPS thing, plus Jerry. So very big.

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## Jan Ellefsen

Thanks for the info, Arthur. Lucky you to be able to hear them live at the time. Living in Norway I had to make do with the album, but I remember it got a lot of playing time in the house I was sharing with friends in the mid seventies. The Hi-Def versions will definitely be downloaded to my computer in the near future.

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## AcousticBuckeye

To the OP thanks for posting this.  Great story/info.  Love Garcia and the Bluegrass connection.  I try to explain to my wife and kids the musical talent Garcia had.  I try to explain that in his off time he would just go and play what is now considered some of the best bluegrass out there.  And he did this on other fronts with the OAITW and Jerry Garcia Band,  Merl Saunders, Grisman, NRPS, Legion of Mary and it goes on.  And this was all in between the crazy Dead tour schedule.  My family just doesn't get where I'm coming from and think I'm crazy  :Smile:   I will go to the grave thinking Garcia as one of the most soulful musicians of all times.

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Dan Krhla

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## SternART

Thanks Alan......that is the Acoustic Oasis, Grisman's download site: http://acousticoasis.com/vault2.html

I saw those Good ol' Boys too.......they played the Bay Area, I was hoping Garcia might show up, he didn't, but Frank & all-star band were still a lot of fun!

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## Scott Tichenor

Duplicate threads merged. Not necessary to post multiple copies of the same information in different areas of the forum please.

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## SternART

[QUOTE=AcousticBuckeye I will go to the grave thinking Garcia as one of the most soulful musicians of all times.[/QUOTE]

You got that right Buckeye.......Garcia was a genius!   Interesting if you study the list of gigs he played.........back in '73, he would do OAITW on the weekend and then do a few shows with Merl Sanders during the week, then OAITW the next weekend.  He really lived to play music.  I miss him.......that is part of why these collaborations with Grisman that Acoustic Oasis is releasing are so special. Like you say in your post,  it just helps illustrate the range he had as a musician.

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Dan Krhla

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## SternART

Thanks for the merge Scott!

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## AlanN

> he would just go and play what is now considered some of the best bluegrass out there.


Debatable, my friend, debatable.

----------

Bill Kammerzell, 

Jim Roberts, 

Rush Burkhardt

----------


## Dave LaBoone

Right on, Buckeye, and a huge thanks to sternART for the well-written memories. I look forward to hearing these hi-def recordings!

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## Gary Hedrick

> Debatable, my friend, debatable.


Again this is one of the interesting points of discussion that is part of the bluegrass story.  "The Best" is best compared to what and frankly there is so much width and breadth of what is "The Bluegrass Music".....Bill's vision.....what Flatt and Scruggs did....what Jimmy Martin did.....what the Stanley Brother did.....what the Country Gentlemen or Jim and Jesse or The Osborne Brothers did and then you can take off to today's thoughts on the music.

Is Old and In the Way is the best......well in some eyes it is.....if compared to Bill's version of the music then perhaps not. 

I love the music they created and I love Monroe's music ...they are different and they are the same .....

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Trav'linmando

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## Gary Hedrick

Arthur, thank you for all of this information. These forums are a place where the history of music can be presented and preserved and are searchable. Hopefully years from now the information here is still alive on the Web and some young anthropologist will come across some of these first hand accounts and use them in some scholarly work. 

You had a chance to see and experience something that was unique....special and I thank you for sharing this......

There are certainly a number of folks on this forum that have great and unique experiences that have been shared here......whether it is bluegrass, the instruments we play and new directions of bluegrass and other forms of music that include mandolins are well discussed here......

The jazz, classical, bluegrass, rock etc all have some really heavy hitters contributing here.......

I love reading all of this....

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## dmckay

Hi:  New to the forum but this is a good place to jump in.  I was hitch hiking with a buddy back in the early 70's and saw OAITW in Santa Barbara, CA.  We were getting a sandwich in a deli and saw a poster for a Doc and Merle Watson concert in a downtown theatre.  I was doing some flatpicking and Doc, of course, was a primary inspiration.  OAITW was the opening act.  Of course, we were surprised to see Jerry Garcia up there playing banjo in this great band.  The fiddle player was Richard Greene.  Sometime later I got the live record with Vassar on fiddle.  I always assumed that Richard Greene had replaced him in the band after that recording was made.  So now I can say not only that I saw OAITW way but the original OAITW.  Cool.

Dan

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journeybear

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## AlanN

> Again this is one of the interesting points of discussion that is part of the bluegrass story.  "The Best" is best compared to what and frankly there is so much width and breadth of what is "The Bluegrass Music".....Bill's vision.....what Flatt and Scruggs did....what Jimmy Martin did.....what the Stanley Brother did.....what the Country Gentlemen or Jim and Jesse or The Osborne Brothers did and then you can take off to today's thoughts on the music.
> 
> Is Old and In the Way is the best......well in some eyes it is.....if compared to Bill's version of the music then perhaps not. 
> 
> I love the music they created and I love Monroe's music ...they are different and they are the same .....


Just saw this post now, Gary. Right on. Reminds me of the Les McCann Compared To What. 

Of course, 'best' can mean a lot of things, in a lot of contexts. As a super tight bg band, with great harmonies, phrasing and feel, I would say OAITW was not that. The little Grisman book of Recorded Bluegrass Solos 1966-1976 has the awesome Dawg solo on Kissimmee Kid, and his cool solo on Knockin' On Your Door. Darol Anger supplies commentary on some of the tunes and calls the band 'rhythmically sagging' in spots. 

Face it, Garcia's banjo was not the greatest (he himself said so), but he was _Jerry Garcia picking the banjo!_ How cool was that. The band admittedly did not practice much, sort of winged it. And the vocals were a bit grating, at times. But, as a 'thing', the band was out of this world. And as a first exposure to bg for the legions of Deadheads, OAITW was stupendous. So, in that sense, they were 'Best' right there.

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Rush Burkhardt

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## tree

And yet, I like the OAITW version of Pig In A Pen as good as any other, better than most.  Unique tempo, different harmonies, and *Vassar*.  Man, I miss him! He was a never-ending fountain of expressive, melodic ideas.  His solo on White Dove is just about the bluesiest fiddle EVER.  

I love DG's intro to Wild Horses on one of the other OAITW releases, can't remember exactly which one it was on, but he manages to introduce it with some creative cojones, tremolos through some cool doublestops and ends it with a killer Monroe-ism. I like it so well I've stolen it for my own personal use.

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## SternART

> calls the band 'rhythmically sagging' in spots.


I notice when Grisman does the melody on a solo, there wasn't as strong a rhythm...........maybe that is why he added a 2nd mando in the DGQ to correct for that.

I've heard it said that is why Django had a coupla other rhythm guitarists.....when Grappelli soloed he had Django on rhythm, so when Django soloed he needed two other guys makin' the groove to equal him.

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## AlanN

Yep, that was one of Dawg's reasons for the 2 mandolin thing. I thought that sound was so cool at the beginning. Todd played with such beauty and easy restraint, getting the chordal thing very perfectly behind the band. 

The thing with OAITW, Peter had his style and his songs. But as a strong guitar man, a la Rice, wasn't really there. And between him and bass man Kahn, the rhythmic groove wasn't too strong, imo. Hence, the sagging.

As Rice said one time (paraphrasing here)...give me one strong mandolin man, don't need 2.

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## tree

Interesting how different folks hear different things from the same recordings . . . to my ear it's Garcia on banjo that creates the "sag" in the rhythm.  I always felt Peter was pretty tight rhythmically, especially with his vocabulary of bass runs.  But when the banjo goes south, it drags the whole thing down.

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Bill Kammerzell

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## AlanN

No argument there, tree. Just I don't hear/feel the drive in the guitar.

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## tree

I agree that Rowan is certainly no TR or Kenny Smith on rhythm guitar. Would that more folks could drive like that . . .

The other interesting aspect of OAITW (to me) is the core connection with Muleskinner: Rowan, Kahn, and DG (rhythm guitar, bass, mando).  I've always thought it would be cool to hear TR with OAITW.

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## SternART

[QUOTE=tree;1231055 The other interesting aspect of OAITW (to me) is the core connection with Muleskinner: Rowan, Kahn, and DG (rhythm guitar, bass, mando).  I've always thought it would be cool to hear TR with OAITW.[/QUOTE]

Or had he still been alive Clarence White.  But part of OAITW's mass appeal to the college audience was the original tunes Rowan brought, with the counterculture lifestyle references, etc.  Peter was part of the recipe that made this band popular.

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## tree

> But part of OAITW's mass appeal to the college audience was the original tunes Rowan brought, with the counterculture lifestyle references, etc.  Peter was part of the recipe that made this band popular.


Indeed he was.  College was where I first heard the OAITW album, and Panama Red (and Wild Horses) were indeed a couple of favorite tracks from that record at that time in my life.  

Too bad college, by the time I got there, was 4 or 5 years too late to catch a live OAITW show . . . but right on time for some DGQ, first time with Tony, next time with Mark O'Connell and Mike Marshall, and a DG/Stephan Grappelli show to boot.  Not complaining!

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## neebee

This is a great thread and thanks to SternART for the awesome intro. I am always reluctant to say anybody is the best but OAITW was incredibly influential to me based on where I was when I first heard them - freshman in collage - and, well, Jerry, regardless of how good he was on banjo.  I have been searching to find people who experienced this temporal phenomenon and this thread has resolved that.  One question to you all...why no Peter Rowan guitar breaks?  And any video out there?

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## AlanN

> why no Peter Rowan guitar breaks?  And any video out there?


He was mostly trad in a bluegrass setting, and outside of Clarence White and Doc, there were few guitar pickers who took breaks back then. Pete's style was pretty straight and a break would have likely been a bass note, downstroke thing.

I too would love to see some OAITW vids. The closest is that TV show of Muleskinner (have it on VHS). Some stoned hippies in that....

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Gary Hedrick

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## Rex Hart

> Debatable, my friend, debatable.


I can't put my finger on it, but in some way I can't fully explain or understand, OAITW sounds almost older than WSM. Maybe it is the sagging or timing, but their music just seems to flow. I love Garcia's accentuated banjo at the end of vocal lines. I love Vasser's break on Wild Horses, I love all the breaks on The Hobo Song. Is it perfect? Are there flaws? Does Jerry play with the timing of JD Crowe? Does Vasser play with the preciseness of Mark O'Connor? Are Dawg's solo's as intricate as Thile? Nah. I am thankful for that and for this recording. This is more about feeling and if some don't get it, I can't help you, but I hope you get it someday.

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Glassweb

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## AlanN

If this is directed to me, I'll play. Here's the quote from above that I questioned:

he would just go and play what is now considered some of the best bluegrass out there.

I have said OAITW was its own thing, full of all of the various influences going into it, some of them very beautiful. In that regard, it was hard to beat and was wonderful. To claim it is 'some of the best bg out there' is debatable. And that aspect hardly plays into the whole OAITW vibe, anyway.

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Bill Kammerzell

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## Rex Hart

Alan, 
It's all good, and I guess it is "debatable", but to me, it is some of the best bluegrass out there. However, point taken. OAITW probably didn't consider themselves the best by any means. Like you said, it wasn't there vibe. I bet it was considered rather progressive when it came out, but now sounds almost traditional if not old timey. That album along with Barren County by NGR were the two that got me and I was hooked. That led to Stanley Brothers and WSM. No more Outlaws and Lynyrd Skynrd for me!

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## AlanN

You betcha. The prism of time has a way of putting everything into perspective. With a related recording, The Good Ol' Boys Pistol Packin' Mama, and Frank's mandolinisms, seemed radical at the time. Now, if I listen to it, I see how closely FW was tethered to the Monroe pole.

As you say, Rex...it's all good.

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Gary Hedrick

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## Gary Hedrick

Remember that Vassar's fiddle style was hardly long bow bluegrass of the Gordon Terry's of the world. He played a lot of short stroke jazz (to my ear) passages. 

Alan, it is true that looking back things don't quite seem the way they were with the perspective of time. I used to really find Frank Wakefield's playing to be a bunch of note factory stuff. But when I go back and listen to some of the recordings with Red Allen and naw it isn't that way at all.

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Glassweb

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## SternART

Grisman learned a lot about Monroe style directly from Frank.........who was one of the first to really study it & when he wants to Wakefield can indeed play a lot like Monroe.  I hear a lot of Monroe-isms
played by Grisman on this 4 CD set of OAITW.

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## Gary Hedrick

Oh certainly when one listens to Grisman he can throw the switch and play Monroe as good as anyone I've heard and so can Wakefield.  OAITW just had a vibe that was loose and free flowing.....the harmony of the vocals in many cases left a little bit to be desired. Some of Vassar's fiddle playing was more Stephen Graffelli (sp?) than Monroe fiddle player in style. But the music to me was interesting....a mix of several styles by folks that were great musicians.

When I lived in Fresno for several years and played at a jam session there some of the music was tinged with their music along with western swing. When I played I had folks asking me where I was from because I played "Kentucky" bluegrass. But OAITW certainly was an big influence on a number of the pickers there.

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## Bernie Daniel

> I have the original LP album that I bought new when it first came out !


Me too!  I love the cover art!

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## LMF

I've always wanted to give OAITW a listen but it was not available a few years back. Looks like I have something to download tomorrow.

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## Gary Hedrick

Remember that in the days when this was done guitar players did rhythm very few picked breaks etc. Also Pete Rowan most certainly could play driving rhythm ...I heard him do it with Monroe. 

When I lived in Fresno for 8 years I played at a jam session where many of the folks played in the style of OAITW....a kind of loose flowing grass...a couple of the fiddle players were kind of Grappelli like in their phrasing.....I had a number of folks ask me where I was from because I played "Kentucky" bluegrass....

This band influenced a number of folks in those years....many Deadheads were drawn to bluegrass by Garcia playing a banjo. 

A couple of the folks where I worked in Indiana were true Deadheads and when I explained to them that Garcia was playing banjo before the Dead came about they just about were ready to lynch me.....then I told the story of him and Sandy Rothman making copies of bluegrass tapes from Bean Blossom in the basement of my father's shop and they calmed down a bit.....I had seen and experienced the presence of the "master" first hand so I was blessed.

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## AlanN

Re-reading the Rice book, the part where he left JD, moved out west to be with Grisman. The joy, enthusiasm and sheer musical magic that was then is so cool to re-live, through his eyes. It was all so new and vibrant then. When the DGQ record came out, it was a pure mindblast. And it was all a continuum of OAITW, 70's bluegrass.

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## Glassweb

Old & In The Way were amazing in many ways. When you have the musicality of Peter Rowan, David Grisman, Jerry Garcia and Vassar Clements in one band... well, that's a hell of a lot vision, diversity and experience! Vassar and Peter were members of Monroe's band... so the vibe was thick on their part and of course Jerry brought his cult status, his enthusiasm and soulful voice. And the Dawg... well what can you say about the Dawg? The guy was (and is) just an ELECTRIC player with an amazing life force. One of the greatest rhythm players of all time as far as I'm concerned.  Also OAITW perfectly reflected the times they were living in... heavily influenced by drugs and rock n' roll... maybe sex too! You see all these kids playing "Americana" and banjos and stuff today? In no small way was OAITW directly responsible for this. By the way, I was speaking with Andy Statman the other night and we both agree that Grisman is, hands down, the most influential and important mandolinist of all time. I know many would argue with that, perhaps even David himself, but I'll stand by it...

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dang, 

Perry Babasin

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## SternART

> By the way, I was speaking with Andy Statman the other night and we both agree that Grisman is, hands down, the most influential and important mandolinist of all time. I know many would argue with that, perhaps even David himself, but I'll stand by it...


No argument here.

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## Gary Hedrick

Oh the Bluegrass Police will come after you two.....

But if you really take into account the Acoustic Disc stuff......the OAITW stuff....the other bluegrass recording etc.... the academic material..... the classic stuff...the Dawg Music....the helping and influencing of a whole bunch of folks that wouldn't know a mandolin from a "funny little guitar"....then you are likely correct in total numbers and he hopefully still has a bunch more left in the tank which will further cement that influence.

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## Glassweb

> Oh the Bluegrass Police will come after you two.....
> 
> But if you really take into account the Acoustic Disc stuff......the OAITW stuff....the other bluegrass recording etc.... the academic material..... the classic stuff...the Dawg Music....the helping and influencing of a whole bunch of folks that wouldn't know a mandolin from a "funny little guitar"....then you are likely correct in total numbers and he hopefully still has a bunch more left in the tank which will further cement that influence.


How right you are Gary... and lest we forget, guess who is responsible for the now _worldwide_ fervor and fever for Choro music in general and Choro mandolin in particular? It ain't Red Rector baby!

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## Gary Hedrick

Yep, that's just the point that you and Arthur are dead on about.....the man has influence and exposure in this world of internet and he knows how to work things and seems to have a never ending curiosity about different forms of music and the mandolin.

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## Glassweb

Actually it was David's legendary mandolin work on The Grateful Dead's "American Beauty" (Ripple, Friend of the Devil) that sent legions of young longhairs scurrying out the door to buy a little 8-stringer (yeah, I was one)! And hey, don't forget his composition "Doggy Mountain Breakdown", which was heard repeatedly for YEARS every week on NPR's Car Talk w/ Klic & Klack, The Tappit Bros. No, seriously... this Dawgs paws go deep and don't let go...

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Gary Hedrick

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## fatt-dad

thanks for the OP. I saw the band at some bluegrass festival in the early 70s.  We were at the Culpeper or the Culpeper/Warrington Bluegrass festival.  Just crazy good with everybody from Grandpa Jones to NGR.

Now who cited Les McCann?  You see back in those days, I listened to jazz and bluegrass.  It was Les' "Invitation to Openness" that got the most airplay in my house though.

f-d

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## brunello97

> ....Now who cited Les McCann?  You see back in those days, I listened to jazz and bluegrass.  It was Les' "Invitation to Openness" that got the most airplay in my house though.
> 
> f-d


Les McCann (another Kentucky boy!) blew my Texas Gulf Coast ears open.  :Smile:   All else followed.  Try to make it real.

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fatt-dad

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## SternART

I just heard this OAITW download is now the Acoustic Oasis biggest seller.  :Disbelief:

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## neebee

I got the CD two days ago - I don't do downloads.  Awesome sound and great to hear some other versions of what I have been listening to for years.  On the 10/1 show, Dawg and JG really get down at the end of Old and In the Way Breakdown.  Thanks again, SternART, for kicking off this thread.

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SternART

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## neebee

I forgot about a CD I had titled "Studio Sessions".  Not sure when it was recorded but I think it was early in the Vasser era.  Lots of good chatter and cool practicing great songs.  Can somebody tell me how to post tunes to the forum?

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## Will Patton

In response to your post about the lust for that big rhythm section behind your solo thang -  Django and Dawg - I've heard that same thing, Art, and had it collaborated by a number of folks -  Ya just need that big honkin' pompe behind you!   Great bit of writing here, thanks.
WP

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SternART

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## Psyberbilly

Exactly . The music is alive and it breathes. It's not machine like , but it is human , warts and all . As someone who plays five string banjo , I believe that Garcia's missing middle right hand finger ( which required him to use the ring finger in it's place ) had a lot to do with his banjo sound . I have played around using that finger , just out of curiosity. Can't replicate what he does , but it does noticably change the sound .

A friend of mine from North Carolina was buying a load of white oak wood an old man had cut at his old home built saw mill , and made a mention ( not complaining , just noticing ) of the fact that the wood didn't conform to modern commercial " norms " . 

The old man grinned at him and said " Ya want it perfect , or do ya want it WOOD ? "

I like "wood" and am vastly appreciative of some of the same imperfections in music .

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## JeffD

I love that song. 

Oh... never mind.

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## journeybear

I have a recollection that is sort of the flip side of this coin. In the winter of 1977-1978 I was living in Berkeley, and went to see the Jerry Garcia Band for the first and only time at some small club. They took a long time to come out for the first set and then took a long break between sets. During the down time the sound guy played the first David Grisman Quintet album - just-released - and with all that time, I got to hear it all the way through nearly twice. I had never heard it before, though I must have read about it somewhere, because I knew what it was. I liked the JGB alright - some of it seemed a bit lopey and loopy, and overall not as adventurous as Grateful Dead - but that Dawg music took me for a ride and really stuck with me. I was well aware of Grisman from his two songs on "American Beauty" and the OAITW album, but this was a whole 'nuther sum'thin' that wasn't no part of nothin' else I'd ever heard before. It really opened my mind to the possibilities of the mandolin.  :Mandosmiley: 

And thanks to SternART for one of the best-written posts I've ever read here.  :Mandosmiley:

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## MysTiK PiKn

Wow, this thread  - and has it been resurrected? 
SternArt - I can tell you were there; like really there.  :Wink:   Your description is entirely experiential.  No thought required.  Genuine peaked interest experience.
On the Canadian side I saw most of the musicians mentioned in this thread - and that, thanks to various friends who just kinda dragged me along to see "who"?  Grisman et al, a couple times, once in a small venue church with Mark O"Connell, Vassar with some new young kid named Tony Rice; but it was the Vassar Clements show. Yeh, we really liked him with his pipe hanging out of his mouth. And young buck Tony Rice was like almost shy and wowee.  They played outdoors on the front lawn of Univ of Guelph, ON. The cops had to shut it down cos some idiot made a noise complaint. - Doc and Merle, and Doc solo. @ Ontario Place, Toronto.  Bill Monroe and His Bluegrass Boys at the original Carlyle Bluegrass Festival (my first) circa 1977, dancing like a crazy thing in front of the stage.  But I never saw Garcia.   :Frown:   :Frown: 
Thanks bigtime for this thread.  As someone mentioned this is like a history, or an anthology, or something big.  I can't believe I just read this entire thread.  These musicians were my introduction to Bluegrass.  This is how I got my ears burned.
Just a great thread.  Thanx again.
I also saw most of the rock history in the 60's 70's; but that's some other story, some other thread.  But I never saw Jimi.  :Frown: 
Some pretty crazy times back then. dontcha know.

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## rick frank

After seeing the Dead in '74, I  got the little 33 1/3 disk that they sent to their mailing list and subsequently the  full LP.  That stuck in my head. After

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## Mandolin Cafe

Missed the recording date yesterday. Best we know is this was recorded October 8, 1973.

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## AlanN

> Thanks Alan......that is the Acoustic Oasis, Grisman's download site: http://acousticoasis.com/vault2.html
> 
> I saw those Good ol' Boys too.......they played the Bay Area, I was hoping Garcia might show up, he didn't, but Frank & all-star band were still a lot of fun!


Fun to re-read this thread. 

Interestingly, the Good Ol' Boys record/band came up in discussion at IBMA, I think with Tom Rozum. Pat Campbell was the bass player on that record and he is a well-rounded and respected Bay Area musician. Frank moved to the West Coast for a period right around when that record was recorded and subsequently did the record Bluegrass with Jon Glik, the Lindner boys, Tom Stern. Good recording, with tunes like Bluegrass Band #1, New Musician's Waltz, The Greek, etc.

If anyone has a copy of that recording, please contact me. We can trade...

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