# Music by Genre > Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex >  old timey challenge

## JeffD

This challenge was brought up at a party, and I thought I would put it up here.

Here's the idea.

Take an old war horse of a tune. Preferabley something you have heard a thousand times more than you ever want to hear it. Something that makes you fidget when a newbie plays the tune with enthusiasm.

Take that tune and find a way to make it interesting again. No big changes to the tune, but can we play it in a way that the tune shines again, and will make the most jaded of old fiddlers want to play it.

Pick any tune you want, but make it something very common, something we all probably know, and have stopped listening to. Something that has become trite, and dorky. Then add your own style or technique or enthusiasm to bring out the tune in a way you think will make others take a new interest in the tune.

I would like to share them here, but the challenge of course goes beyond the cafe into your home jam sessions.

I am presently working on Angeline the Baker. I have some cool sounding ideas. I will share when ready.

Lets see what we can do to pump some sunshine into dead horses.

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## Jim Nollman

Jeff, this sounds like great fun. My only comment is that one person's war horse is another person's quagga. What's a quagga. Precisely. Does anyone out there in Mando land besides me regard the Scottish fiddle tune, The Rosebud of Allenvale, as  a war horse?

I am now recording a CD of traditional tunes, using the deconstruction tools often found in rap remixes and even bebop. Give a listen to the waltz linked to my signature, for one example. This starts off as a classic Scottish fiddle tune, but eventually deconstructs into a jazz improv. There's 8 other tunes done this same way. I'm happy to share more tunes from this project if people want to hear more.

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## Mike Black

I do that to Angeline the Baker already.  I play it in C.  It sounds cool in the low register.

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## JeffD

> Jeff, this sounds like great fun. My only comment is that one person's war horse is another person's quagga. What's a quagga. Precisely. Does anyone out there in Mando land besides me regard the Scottish fiddle tune, The Rosebud of Allenvale, as  a war horse?
> 
> This starts off as a classic Scottish fiddle tune, but eventually deconstructs into a jazz improv. There's 8 other tunes done this same way.


First of all, yea Rosebud of Avondale could be considered a war horse. I remember being real tired of that tune.  :Smile: 

Taking it into jazz, well yea thats cool. There was a duo, I remember from a while ago, Hamish Moore and Dick Lee, bagpipes and sax. They did these great Scottish tunes that slowly and lovingly morphed into an almost dixieland arrangement. Really cool.

But thats different than what I was thinking though. I was hoping that a tune could be made interesting again, and still be within its original tradition. Perhaps a harder challenge?

But while its a challenge, its not a competition, so lets take all comers and see what happens. Could be very interesting.

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## JeffD

> I do that to Angeline the Baker already.  I play it in C.  It sounds cool in the low register.


Just tried it and yes thats true.

I am trying something with extensive whiney double stops that shift up an octave.

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## Jim Garber

One thing I sometimes do is to play a super-familiar tune in as many keys as possible. it is a great exercise and gtes you in upper positions as well. 

I used to play for a clogging workshop and the teacher would teach for 1/2 hour straight with continuous music. We used to play what i called warhorse sets and I would call out the next tune in a mega-medley. It was also a challenge to see if I (or anyone else) could actually remember it to start. One time I was the only musician so I just played what I wanted and even switched keys since there were no old time banjo players. Oh, BTW I was playing fiddle. if it were mandolin i doubt I could hear myself in a room full of cloggers.

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## Charles E.

You could look for other variations of the tunes. A long time ago I dismissed Angeline the Baker but when I heard The Critten Hollow Stringband play their version, I liked it again. They had good vocals and a slight twist to the melody that I had never heard before, Fast forward many years and Crooked Still did the same thing, made it fresh for me.

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## JeffD

A hammered dulcimer friend of mine turned Devils Dream Hornpipe into a waltz. Really fun.

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## Psyberbilly

It's not old time , but " Fox On The Run " has become somewhat cliche in many bluegrass circles and sessions . On the album " Double Banjo Bluegrass Spectacular " Tony Trischka has given it a fresh treatment that has made it new and interesting to me again. So far I have just been listening to and enjoying it again , one day soon maybe I can deconstruct it and see what they have done differently .

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## JeffD

Haven't heard it but thats what I am talking about.

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## foldedpath

This might be disqualified under "_No big changes to the tune,_" but at a recent concert I heard Natalie MacMaster play St. Anne's Reel with a section in the middle where she shifted it down to a minor mode for a few repeats, and then back to major for the finish. It sounded terrific, with that big lift back to major key. I've been fooling around with it, trying to figure out how she did it, so I can ambush the local OT players at the next jam...

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lowtone2

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## Mike Snyder

Yes, I like to do that with Red Haired Boy. Funny, it seems kinda intuitive on the mandolin, but throws the hammered dulcimers into a quandry. They're good musicians, too. Lots of tunes could stand that minor shift in the middle. Gotta go try St. Anne's now.

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## Jim Nollman

Our contra dance band sometimes uses meter changes as a way to challenge ourselves in rehearsal. Some of them are very musical. We often do this with St Ann'sReel, which sounds equally good as a waltz, as a jig, and as a hornpipe. I especially like it as a waltz. Tobin's Jig also sounds good as a waltz.  Calliope House sounds as good as a reel as it does as a jig. 

And thanks for pointing out the challenge of actually changing the mode of a tune, but maybe just in one part. For no good reason, The B of Scolley's Reel comes immediately to mind as a distinct possibility.

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## JeffD

I just did an amazing Angeline the Baker, with the vocals done in a spoken manner, not as a song, and mandolin and fiddle playing the tune slowly between verses.  Sounded really great.

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## catmandu2

> Here's the idea.
> 
> Take an old war horse of a tune. Preferabley something you have heard a thousand times more than you ever want to hear it. Something that makes you fidget when a newbie plays the tune with enthusiasm.
> 
> Take that tune and find a way to make it interesting again. No big changes to the tune, but can we play it in a way that the tune shines again, and will make the most jaded of old fiddlers want to play it.


By goll Jeff...if I had read your thread this morning, I wouldn't have had to write a page on the Jack White thread!   :Crying:

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## JeffD

> By goll Jeff...if I had read your thread this morning, I wouldn't have had to write a page on the Jack White thread!


 :Smile:

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## mandolirius

> This challenge was brought up at a party, and I thought I would put it up here.
> 
> Here's the idea.
> 
> Take an old war horse of a tune. Preferabley something you have heard a thousand times more than you ever want to hear it. Something that makes you fidget when a newbie plays the tune with enthusiasm.
> 
> Take that tune and find a way to make it interesting again. No big changes to the tune, but can we play it in a way that the tune shines again, and will make the most jaded of old fiddlers want to play it.
> 
> Pick any tune you want, but make it something very common, something we all probably know, and have stopped listening to. Something that has become trite, and dorky. Then add your own style or technique or enthusiasm to bring out the tune in a way you think will make others take a new interest in the tune.
> ...


This is a band I was in called "Mandolirium". I wanted to do something with Red Haired Boy/Little Beggerman so I moved it to the key of D which, to me, has a darker sound than A, slowed it down and then put it in a medley with another tune called "My Maggie".
It was a coffeehouse gig and yes, we'd drunk a lot. 

Oh yeah.........accordian alert!

09 Track 9.mp3

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Dave Hicks

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## Ed Goist

Really nice. It is dark (a good thing). Also, the slower tempo, and the arrangement contribute to making for a fresh, interesting and enjoyable listening experience.
Excellent playing by all throughout.
Also, and your high speed mandolin playing at the end is just off the hook! *Well done.*
Oh, and your mandolin here has a really nice, dry, woody tone to it on this clip...I'm guessing this is the '05 Randy Wood (?)

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## Earl Gamage

Try Clinch Mountain Backstep with the guitar playing Am Em

I guess that's Bluegrass instead of Old time, sorry

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## mandolirius

> Really nice. It is dark (a good thing). Also, the slower tempo, and the arrangement contribute to making for a fresh, interesting and enjoyable listening experience.
> Excellent playing by all throughout.
> Also, and your high speed mandolin playing at the end is just off the hook! *Well done.*
> Oh, and your mandolin here has a really nice, dry, woody tone to it on this clip...I'm guessing this is the '05 Randy Wood (?)


Thanks for the comments, Ed. We played a lot of different mandolins (and mandolin family instruments) in that band. The other mandolin player has quite a collection. I can't quite remember what we were using for that tune. I think I'm playing my old Givens A and Rick may be using one of a pair of 80's vintage Kentucky KM1000's he used to own. But I really can't be sure. BTW, that's mostly Rick's high-speed antics at the end. He played the tune, I just did backup and the low harmony.

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## JeffD

Very nice.

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## mandolirius

Thanks Jeff. I have to confess to re-posting this on the General forum, because I wasn't sure if this one got much traffic. But I'm not getting any more response there than I did here so, I don't know. Sometimes I can't understand this site. People will post pages and pages about the price of mandolins or someone's off-the-shelf starter mandolin. But try to interest people in actual mandolin playing and no one says much. Oh well. Maybe I'll try MandoHangout.  :Grin:

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## JeffD

> Sometimes I can't understand this site. People will post pages and pages about the price of mandolins or someone's off-the-shelf starter mandolin. But try to interest people in actual mandolin playing and no one says much. Oh well. Maybe I'll try MandoHangout.


Things go in waves, don't they? Folks will go on about equipment, and then we'll have a long thread about what is really bluegrass or what is and isn't really old time. We'll yammer for hours about picks and then for hours again as to whether so and so is or isn't the reincarnation of Bill Monroe. 

So it just depens on when you catch it which wave you catch. And everyone's criticial issue is a yawner for someone else.

I like what you did with the tune.

With the "new posts" feature, I look at all new posts, regardless of which section they are in.

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## mandolirius

Yeah, it's true, things do go in waves. But I noticed even David Grisman made a comment about what people talk about in these forums.

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## Jim Nollman

Mike I am guessing that this is 2 mandolins, and not 2 tracks of 1 mandolin. Correct? Plus bass, guitar, and accordion? Anything else?  tell us something about the mandolins. If that is a live recording, I think someone did a terrific job of it.

And i can see why you have positive comments about my own new CD creation. We are definitely flying on the same airship.

No apologies for that accordion. We mando players usually do well to add something that widens the field of our sound. They way it speeds up sounds Greek to me. Greek and gorgeous. 

Do you play in Victoria? Anywhere else in the general vicinity? If so, and you are interested, I might be able to get you a gig at our local theater.

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## Tbone

> This challenge was brought up at a party, and I thought I would put it up here.
> 
> Here's the idea.
> 
> Take an old war horse of a tune. Preferabley something you have heard a thousand times more than you ever want to hear it. Something that makes you fidget when a newbie plays the tune with enthusiasm.
> 
> Take that tune and find a way to make it interesting again. No big changes to the tune, but can we play it in a way that the tune shines again, and will make the most jaded of old fiddlers want to play it.
> 
> Pick any tune you want, but make it something very common, something we all probably know, and have stopped listening to. Something that has become trite, and dorky. Then add your own style or technique or enthusiasm to bring out the tune in a way you think will make others take a new interest in the tune.
> ...


I've been working on a version of Angeline in 7/4. Don't quite have it yet, but it kinda works.

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## mandolirius

> Mike I am guessing that this is 2 mandolins, and not 2 tracks of 1 mandolin. Correct? Plus bass, guitar, and accordion? Anything else?  tell us something about the mandolins. If that is a live recording, I think someone did a terrific job of it.
> 
> And i can see why you have positive comments about my own new CD creation. We are definitely flying on the same airship.
> 
> No apologies for that accordion. We mando players usually do well to add something that widens the field of our sound. They way it speeds up sounds Greek to me. Greek and gorgeous. 
> 
> Do you play in Victoria? Anywhere else in the general vicinity? If so, and you are interested, I might be able to get you a gig at our local theater.


Yeah, it's live. I forget what we used to record. Nothing fancy, I'm sure of that. The guitar player doubled on accordion (which I was only jokingly aplogizing for). The speed up was always the way Rick played it but I had been listening to lots of Hungarian gypsy violin around that time, so we were all about the speed up. As for gigs, that band is no more, unfortunately. I think the website mandolirium.com may still be up.

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## JeffD

Have you ever heard Red Wing, mandolin and C-clarinet. Woohoo!

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## Mike Bunting

I really like this, it is almost classical in this elegant arrangement. The sound and feel of the sustained accordion is perfect.
P.S. a review http://www.mudcat.org/thread_pf.cfm?threadid=25230

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## mandolirius

> I really like this, it is almost classical in this elegant arrangement. The sound and feel of the sustained accordion is perfect.
> P.S. a review http://www.mudcat.org/thread_pf.cfm?threadid=25230


Thanks for noticing. This one was pretty straightforward, but Mandolirium had some pretty complicated arrangements, which were  done by me. I was unemployed at the time and really wanted to learn more about arranging. I didn't start the band, but I did manage to turn it into a vehicle for some crazy ideas I had. We did a medley of the theme from "For A Few Dollars More" and "Pipeline". Another was "Secret Green Things", which was "Secret Agent Man", "The Green Leaves Of Summer" and "My favourite Things" (not in that order). We did "Delila" with the theme from "The Godfather" and lots of silly stuff. One of my faves was called "Tell It To Beaver", which had parts of eight different tunes, starting with the "William Tell Overture" and ended with the theme from "Leave It To Beaver". "RH Boy/My Maggie" was one of our more, ahem, serious pieces.

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## Jim Nollman

The William Tell Overture merged with the theme from Leave it to Beaver and My Maggie!  :Laughing:  Gotta love it. There's a certain irony, Mandolirius, to hear you owning up to such outside musical tastes on the "old-timey" forum. Why do I doubt that you'd encounter a discussion of such music on either the rock or the jazz forum. 

Reminds me of a song I am now producing. It is, recognizably, the inspired hornpipe, "Rights of Man", and with a rather traditionally performed mandolin lead. But it's three minute length  also includes two choruses of a T Monk-inspired piano solo, and a prelude that features the very big sound of the Antarctic Ross Ice sheet splitting apart.

Maybe we should rename this forum: old timey + post avant garde.

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## mandolirius

> The William Tell Overture merged with the theme from Leave it to Beaver and My Maggie!  Gotta love it. There's a certain irony, Mandolirius, to hear you owning up to such outside musical tastes on the "old-timey" forum. Why do I doubt that you'd encounter a discussion of such music on either the rock or the jazz forum. 
> 
> Reminds me of a song I am now producing. It is, recognizably, the inspired hornpipe, "Rights of Man", and with a rather traditionally performed mandolin lead. But it's three minute length  also includes two choruses of a T Monk-inspired piano solo, and a prelude that features the very big sound of the Antarctic Ross Ice sheet splitting apart.
> 
> Maybe we should rename this forum: old timey + post avant garde.


Yeah, it's funny how some discussions wind up in places you'd never imagine. But speaking of that band, we did a tune someone showed me years ago. He called it "Dusty Miller Hornpipe" but I'm pretty sure that's not the  right name. For one thing, it's not a hornpipe. I'll try to find a version of it from one of our shows and post it. Maybe someone will recognize it.

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## Jim Garber

Here's a live recording of my old band of a variant of the jig Off She Goes converted to a Latin rhythms. Not the best recording however... sorry about that.

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## JeffD

> Maybe we should rename this forum: old timey + post avant garde.


I suppose. But the original intent of the challenge was not just to take St. Anne's Reel and play it bosanova, it was to take an old war horse tune and play it in a way that re-expresses something great about the tune. Whether the result is bosanova or still old timey. Thats why I really like what mandolirious did, because the dark and sad feeling came through, which is usually overlooked in the "funny" lyrics.

Of all the trades a going, sure the begging is the best
For when a man is tired he can sit him down and rest
He can beg for his dinner, he has nothing else to do
But to slip around the corner with his old rigadoo

After hearing Mandolirium play the tune one gets re-interested in the tune. It's not just funky different or old made modern, its hey listen to that, where did that come from.

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## JeffD

Here is a perfect example, though outside of OT, of what I am getting at. When I first heard this (as a kid) it broke my heart.

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## mandolirius

> I suppose. But the original intent of the challenge was not just to take St. Anne's Reel and play it bosanova, it was to take an old war horse tune and play it in a way that re-expresses something great about the tune. Whether the result is bosanova or still old timey. Thats why I really like what mandolirious did, because the dark and sad feeling came through, which is usually overlooked in the "funny" lyrics.
> 
> Of all the trades a going, sure the begging is the best
> For when a man is tired he can sit him down and rest
> He can beg for his dinner, he has nothing else to do
> But to slip around the corner with his old rigadoo
> 
> After hearing Mandolirium play the tune one gets re-interested in the tune. It's not just funky different or old made modern, its hey listen to that, where did that come from.


Gosh Jeff, that's awfully nice of you to say that. I always loved that melody but it got played to death around here, in both the bluegrass and celtic circles, to the point where people were starting to roll their eyes when it was suggested.

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## Jim Nollman

Jeff, can we agree that the main point in your statement comparing the Streisand to the St Ann Bosanova, is that you personally like the Streisand, and personally don't like the SA bosanova 

Its great that you think the Streisand is great. It's not my thing. I have never heard a recording of the St Ann Bosanova. It might be great.   :Coffee:

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## JeffD

> Jeff, can we agree that the main point in your statement comparing the Streisand to the St Ann Bosanova, is that you personally like the Streisand, and personally don't like the SA bosanova


I am not a big fan of Barbara actually. Just that she turned "Happy Days" from a pep rally string band tune into a ballad, and found in the tune a certain sadness or bitterness that could be heartbreaking.





> I have never heard a recording of the St Ann Bosanova. It might be great.


Oh it might very well be great. I am into it. But cooler yet is if addition to being great it brought out something inherent in St. Anne's Reel that we all miss when we diss the tune at a jam. Thats all I'm saying.

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## Jim Nollman

Now you got me thinking. I love playing St Ann's Reel, usually as the second of three tunes in one set. Actually, it was the first tune i ever learning as a grouping. It was very easy to learn, whether it followed another reel or a jig, because the beginning of the A part is played with a 6-times repeating double-stop: 0520. [bang, bang, bang) X 2]. All I ever needed to think about  to make that transition was to bang out that double stop as if it was the beginning to "Dust My Broom" by Elmore James. So easy to do. And the dancers always love it whenever our band can bring such a push to any  song transition. This transition is the king of emphatic.

As all contra dance musicians soon learn, some transitions can be a burden to learn correctly. This one was learned in a minute. 

Now, of course, when you listen to any proper recording of that tune, no one plays it that way. When the song is being performed by itself, to add that Elmore James beginning, displays little finesse, no grace. Nor do I play it that way, whenever I play it by itself at a dance, or in a performance. 

I mention this in regards to your original question. In this case, in some situations, when you destroy a tune's implicit subtlety, you may bring down the house at a contra dance.

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## Ed Goist

Jim, you're playing that Em double stop as two blues triplets (DDD..DDD), Right?
Thanks.

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## Jim Nollman

Whoops. I made not just one, but two mistakes.  :Redface: 

1. I meant to write 0052. I play it as a D double stop comprised of the 1 (D) and its 3rd (F#). It's one of my most often used fingerings for old time tunes. And yes, the same double stop could also serve for the relative minor, in this case Bm. 

2. I only bang it out 4 times. Then I hit single notes (starting with the high E) down the scale to establish the melody.

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## JeffD

> in some situations, when you destroy a tune's implicit subtlety, you may bring down the house at a contra dance.


Very true. 

And other times I wonder if the dancers are even listening to the tune at all, or just following the rhythm.

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## Jim Nollman

> I wonder if the dancers are even listening to the tune at all, or just following the rhythm.


Now you hit on an essential view, hotly argued among the musicians where I live. I take the optimistic point of view that it is the actual quality of the musicianship that prompts the dancers to listen to the music or only to the beat. When the music is good, and especially when the musicians are playing off the dancers, that the whole room seems to light up and the building itself can be seen lifting from its foundation. Seeking that status, I have been the squeaky wheel in my band to upgrade our sound system so that the nuances we work out in rehearsal even get heard. Others argue, just as forcefully, that these efforts are for nought, because all that noisy broadband stomping around by dancers kills every nuance and leaves nothing whole but the one beat played by the bass.

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## catmandu2

> I take the optimistic point of view that it is the actual quality of the musicianship that prompts the dancers to listen to the music or only to the beat. When the music is good, and especially when the musicians are playing off the dancers, that the whole room seems to light up and the building itself can be seen lifting from its foundation.


There is likely a symbiotic, synergistic effect taking place among dancers and players.  But, I take the cynical view...I think dancers are hearing mostly the bass, too..   :Smile:

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## hank

Great Idea and thread Jeff.  I stumbled upon your thread after listening to rene demo his 1921 A3  in the classifieds and both are very inspiring.  I'm reminded that what I'm looking for is here, I'm just looking in the wrong places.

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## JeffD

> Now you hit on an essential view, hotly argued among the musicians ...


Well my experience is that both are correct. I am not trying to be a peace maker, I really believe this to be the case. The difference is the quality of the dancers. Experieced dancers listen a lot more carefully and appreciate subtle movements in the music. They nolonger fixate on the beat and where to put their feet.

Inexperienced dancers, OTOH, can more easily get distracted by the melody, and hang on tight to the beat as they work out their place in the whole thing.

I noticed this when I played a dance where we had a beginners contra, before the regular dance, with extra training and patience, because the regular dance was attended by so many experienced dancers that the beginners were getting intimidated. What I learned was that you can't, shouldn't, use the same music for each. A dance with a lot of beginners needs to have music that is a bit more predictable, straight forward, but fun. Experienced dancers like a lot more fun, switch ups, sweeping melodies, cool flingie transistions, etc.

What the musicians might want is quite irrelevant. Ahh, but that is nothing new.  :Smile:

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## catmandu2

Good observations Jeff.  Out West, seems the practice is to hold beginning instruction the first 1/2 hour...the more experienced dancers show up later.  Our band's first set is usually a polka set--very regular structure and pulse.

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## JeffD

The only dances where beginners and old pros alike appreciate the same thing about a tune is the waltz. A beautiful waltz is appreciated by everyone.

Applying my challenge applied to waltzes might create something still playable and appreciated at a dance.

To make a war horse waltz new again, I go and get the lyrics. And in my playing, I try and really bring out what the song is about. If there are no lyrics, I will grab any hint or intuition I have, and over emphasize it. I try and make the waltz *about* something. Make it about one great thing.

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## catmandu2

Well said...and a very musical sounding approach.

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## JeffD

This was posted elsewhere but I linked here because it is a FANTASTIC example of what I am talking about. New life breathed into an old warhorse.

Without an excurstion into the wierd or outlandish, or crossing the boundaries of the genre, or even scaring the neighbors.

What is wonderful about this is that the tune still does the work. The integrity of the tune itself, now with lyrics, is the engine here, the motion. And knowing the tune intimately (having played it 984092347534985 times), one can feel some kind of "home" in the tune itself, which links with the theme of the song.

This is brilliant on many levels.

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## Jim Nollman

This discussion reminds me of a CD assembled by a friend, containing 14 different versions of "Smells Like Teen Spirit". My personal favorite was a female choir doing it a cappella.

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## Steve Roberts

> This was posted elsewhere but I linked here because it is a FANTASTIC example of what I am talking about. New life breathed into an old warhorse.
> 
> Without an excurstion into the wierd or outlandish, or crossing the boundaries of the genre, or even scaring the neighbors.
> 
> What is wonderful about this is that the tune still does the work. The integrity of the tune itself, now with lyrics, is the engine here, the motion. And knowing the tune intimately (having played it 984092347534985 times), one can feel some kind of "home" in the tune itself, which links with the theme of the song.
> 
> This is brilliant on many levels.


Yeah, but where the heck is the banjo?  I hear it, but I sure don't see it.

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## JeffD

> Yeah, but where the heck is the banjo?  I hear it, but I sure don't see it.


 :Laughing: 

Ahhh well. There are some that would prefer they be seen and not heard.

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## Markus

Jeff [and other contributors], what a great thread. The thoughts in the first post, and additional comments, have been bouncing around my noggin since this thread first started.

I've been in a good position for some of these old songs ... after growing tired of them on guitar, I deliberately skipped quite a few songs as I switched to mandolin. Only recently, as I build my fiddle tune repertoire to completion [of songs I'll encounter regularly], have I gotten around to learning anything beyond the rhythm parts on many of the worn-out standards - having some time away, spending some jams just playing rhythm, I'm looking at these tunes with a more fresh eye.

This thread is great in that context, as it has me thinking about how to make them jump up and grow some hair so-to-speak - not just have the correct notes. I know these tunes on another instrument - I'm looking far beyond competency when I learn them, I want people's feet to dance after ignoring the tune for years.

Of course, now that I'm finally getting some of them down at proper speed, I'm aware of the rolling eyes when I suggest them at a jam  :Smile:  Oh well, hopefully my smile as I nail it the first time will be infectious, and hopefully some of the ideas this thread got into my mind have added some touches that open the ears of the most jaded pickers.

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## JeffD

The reason many tunes are so over played is, in most cases, because they are great tunes. They engaged us before we knew it wasn't cool to be engaged by those tunes.

If one can find a way, as Steel Wheels did, of re-engaging us, surprising us into re-experiencing what was great about the tune in the first place, that is the trick I think.

I remember I think it was Jean Redpath, in an interview, talked about the integrity of traditional music. That if you were at a loss to figure out a way to present a song, (in her case a traditional Scottish song), you really couldn't go wrong presenting it traditionally. NOT at all to suggest that a traditional setting is the lazy man's arrangement, not at all. It's that a traditional tune or song has survived because it can deliver the goods, and you don't have to do a lot besides get out of the way and let it do what it does.

This is not an argument against innovation either. 

Its an argument against innovation for its own sake. Try what ever you want, but you will know you have succeeded when it sounds like it has always been done that way.

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## Nick Royal

I recently bought the cd, "Saturday Night Waltz," by mandolinist, Joe Walsh, which I saw mentioned on the Home Page of the Cafe.  He does a really nice version of Whiskey Before Breakfast, reworking the tune in a very nice way.
Nick Royal
Santa Cruz, CA

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## Willie Poole

On the bluegrass scene The Country Gentlemen worked up a great version of an old timey tune, "Aunt Dinahs Quilting Party" and my band plays it at most shows and people enjoy hearing some of the old songs that they knew as a kid....There are quite a few old timey songs out there that make good fillers to put on a CD, something for all walks of life , I guess....

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## JeffD

> On the bluegrass scene The Country Gentlemen worked up a great version of an old timey tune, "Aunt Dinahs Quilting Party" ....


If thats the one I am thinking of - wait let me check youtube - yep, great tune. Tasty mandolin opportunities.

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## JeffD

So what do you think? Angeline the Baker qualifies as a war horse that if I hear it again I will scream. And here it is new again:

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## Jack Roberts

Ooh, that's so pretty it hurts.

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## SincereCorgi

Yeah, but if this is an 'old timey challenge' how is that even remotely 'old timey'?

It's an interesting reworking of the tune, but it veers into what I think of as 'insurance company commercial music'.

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## JeffD

I think I know what you mean. What I think of when you say insurance company commercial music, is stuff that is not meant to be heard, just kind of backgroundy music. Stuff you could turn your back on and not miss anything.  There isnt any part of Sarah's playing there that I could turn away from.

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## Jim Nollman

Here's a version of Kitchen Girl/Cluck Old Hen i recorded about a year ago.  :Chicken:  :Chicken:  :Chicken: 

those opening sounds are cowbirds. Common birds where i live. They lay their eggs in other birds nests. The eggs hatch and push out all the mother's babies. The mother of that different species then feeds them until they fledge.

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billkilpatrick

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## JeffD

Look at this. OMG. I guess I am late to the party. You Are My Sunshine by a band called The Dead South. It brings out a darkness that has always been there in the "original" lyrics and but not emphasized before brought out. Wow. Just wow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MevYCdn5S8

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Rosemary Philips, 

Sue Rieter

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## JeffD

Oh and of course we cannot forget the Punch Brothers doing Church St. Blues, being discussed in this thread. What is important to this thread is it is an example of taking an old tune and made it interesting in a new way.

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## Jim Garber

That is a good trick to change up a standard from major to minor. Also works to Klezmerify with a Jewish mode.

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## A 4

Speaking of cello, here is Joe Walsh playing an original song that morphs into Solly's Little Favorite.  Solly's favorite may not be that all common of an old time tune, but I love this version, maybe because I really like cello in a string band, and I like how the song and the tune are integrated bit by bit until they just jump fully into the fiddle tune.

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## tmsweeney

see Joe Craven "Camptown"

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## Dave Hicks

Jazzy version of a fiddle tune.  Is this sort of what you had in mind?

D.H.

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Sue Rieter

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## Jim Nollman

Here's a cut from an old album of mine. The album is definitely a creation of the recording studio. All the fiddle tunes therein were deconstructed to some extent, with arrangements strongly influenced by techno, free jazz, and ambient music. I originally learned Swinging on a Gate while playing for contra dances. The tune includes a looped intro, and a long improvised section in the middle that is all over the map in terms of harmony, meter, and feel, but which eventually swerves back to the melody. The mandolin I'm playing is a BRW 3-point oval hole, built for playing jazz. Enjoy.

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Dave Hicks, 

GoingHome

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## JeffD

Check it out. Simple dare I say boring tune: Found something in its incessant lyric that makes it. Sometimes all that takes is to play it like you mean it.

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Sue Rieter

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## Sue Rieter

Thanks for tha, Jeff. That is one of the first songs, if not _the_ first, that I ever learned from my mom as a very little kid  :Smile:

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## nick delmore

Re-arrangement of Red Haired Boy in a medley with My Maggie:

RH BoyMyMaggie.mp3

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