# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Skaggs calls ibma "ignorant"

## mrmando

Here's how Ricky Skaggs talks about the IBMA -- which has given him enough awards to pave his driveway -- because they're not charting his collaboration with Bruce Hornsby: 




> "I think it's just jealousy on their part. They're not playing it very much. But, hey, that's all right. It just shows their ignorance."


Geez, Ricky, does the IBMA have to like everything you do? If that's your standard, I guess you can count me out of your fan base. 

I'm sure some people who consider themselves your fans are still trying to figure out WHAT you were thinking when you recorded that cover of "Superfreak"...

But apparently it's not enough for you that the IBMA has given you more support than any other bluegrass band in the past 10 years, with the possible exception of Del McCoury. At the slightest sign of a lapse in that support, you start throwing around words like "jealousy" and "ignorant."

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## MikeEdgerton

It's a decent CD, he's entitled to his opinion. There were people that vilified the guy when he was playing country in the 80's. That was decent music as well. I have no problem with him saying that. JMHO.

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## Tony Sz

I don't understand, possibly someone could explain it to me, but how does the IBMA "play" anything? It's an organization, or do they have a radio broadcast somewhere? I'm a grassroots member, but I'm not aware of any IBMA "play" that one can listen to. They have a newsletter, and possibly they haven't mentioned it there, but there's hundreds of projects that don't get mentioned there. Bela Fleck has a bunch of work that never gets mentioned, but then, just because he plays banjo doesn't make it bluegrass. IBMA couldn't possibly report all the "bluegrass" releases that come out. I haven't heard the Hornsby/Skaggs CD, but could it be possible that it falls outside the realm of bluegrass?

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## MikeEdgerton

> I haven't heard the Hornsby/Skaggs CD, but could it be possible that it falls outside the realm of bluegrass?


Well, it does have a piano in it.

He's complaining that he isn't on their list:

"They've got a chart that they do in their magazine and we're not even on it," Skaggs said. "We've been No. 1 on the Billboard bluegrass charts for seven or eight weeks now. So I think it's just jealousy on their part. They're not playing it very much. But, hey, that's all right. It just shows their ignorance."

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## mandopete

...and no clarinet? The nerve of some people!

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## MikeEdgerton

> ...and no clarinet? #The nerve of some people!


We actually had a guy show up at a bluegrass jam with a clarinet one night. The guy knew all the songs and took some amazing breaks on that thing.

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## mrmando

> It's a decent CD, he's entitled to his opinion. There were people that vilified the guy when he was playing country in the 80's. That was decent music as well. I have no problem with him saying that. JMHO.


I never said it wasn't a decent CD. It is. I own it; the "Superfreak" thing made me scratch my head, but I like some of the other tracks. 

I guess I'm saying that Ricky's remarks come across more like name-calling than expressing an opinion.

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## MikeEdgerton

I'm sure that Ricky is just as upset that they are ignoring his CD that is topping the Bluegrass charts everywhere but in the IBMA. Ricky isn't the only big name act that has had problems with the IBMA, he might be the first to get this vocal about it. Sure, they gave him awards but without the artists they wouldn't exist. It is indeed a two-edged sword.

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## zookplayer

Funny - my first post ever on the message board WOULD be about something like this... and I'm not a hardcore bluegrass picker... 

Note to Ricky - If it ain't bluegrass why in the world should you be on the list? The only ignorance and jealousy is your own. The quote 'Shut up & sing' comes to mind. This time I think it's appropriate.

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## mrmando

Fine, he might be upset, but that doesn't give him the right to attribute the snub to ignorance or jealousy. Obviously someone at the IBMA decided the record wasn't bluegrass. That doesn't automatically make that person jealous or ignorant. I wouldn't call it bluegrass either, frankly.

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## Enigmatic Recluse

> Fine, he might be upset, but that doesn't give him the right to attribute the snub to ignorance or jealousy. Obviously someone at the IBMA decided the record wasn't bluegrass. That doesn't automatically make that person jealous or ignorant. I wouldn't call it bluegrass either, frankly.


He has every right to attribute it to jealousy and ignorance. We just had a holiday yesterday celebrating that right. 

I doubt it is so much jealousy and ignorance as close-mindedness. While mainstream, Billboard is still part of the music industry. If it is on their chart, the album must have a trace of bluegrass to it. It is a shame that an organization devoted to promoting bluegrass music would have such a narrow definition. Fiddles and banjos are authentic old-time instruments, for the most part, guitars and mandolins weren't used in that music until the 20th century, but I've seen Mike Seeger and Norman Blake (to name a few) playing old-time music on mandolin. The IBMA should lighten up and call the Skaggs/Hornsby project what it is: modern bluegrass. 

I'm on a tight budget. If you aren't a Skaggs fan anymore I'll be happy to send you a SASE for the disc.

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## sgarrity

This is the weakest project Skaggs has done since he "returned" to bluegrass. I own and enjoy all of his other efforts but I just can't get into this one. Now....I was excited to hear that he will have two different recordings coming out in the next 6 months. I'd venture a guess that they will be much better than his collaboration with Mr. Hornsby.

PS -- I thought I'd like this cd. The song they recorded for the Monroe tribute, Darlin' Corey I believe, was excellent.

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## kymandolin59

maybe skaggs has-got above his raising- just a thought.

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## mrmando

> He has every right to attribute it to jealousy and ignorance. We just had a holiday yesterday celebrating that right.


Ha! Well, there are rights and then there are rights. How about this: Skaggs has a *right* as a U.S. citizen to express his opinion, and a *duty* as a member of a civil society to express it soberly and responsibly. In the exercise of his *right* he is neglecting his *duty.* (I could slap him around on religious grounds too, since he likes to make a spectacle of his faith when it suits him, but I won't go there.) 



> I doubt it is so much jealousy and ignorance as close-mindedness.


Well, there you are. I agree, that's probably closer to being accurate. It still sounds like name-calling, though.



> While mainstream, Billboard is still part of the music industry. If it is on their chart, the album must have a trace of bluegrass to it.


Obviously it takes more than a "trace" to pass the IBMA sniff test.



> It is a shame that an organization devoted to promoting bluegrass music would have such a narrow definition.


Neither Skaggs nor the IBMA has the last word on the definition. 

I listened to the Mountain Heart CD that came out on Skaggs' label a couple of years ago, and decided it was country music with bluegrass instruments. In fact, he's released several records I'd describe that way, most or all of which were on the IBMA charts anyway. 

I hope that doesn't make me jealous or ignorant...



> Fiddles and banjos are authentic old-time instruments, for the most part, guitars and mandolins weren't used in that music until the 20th century, but I've seen Mike Seeger and Norman Blake (to name a few) playing old-time music on mandolin.


If there's any kind of music that's harder to define than bluegrass, it's old-time. 

Next you'll be saying no one should play Bach on the piano, an instrument that wasn't in use during his lifetime.



> I'm on a tight budget. If you aren't a Skaggs fan anymore I'll be happy to send you a SASE for the disc.


I'm a fan by _my_ definition. The question is whether I'm a fan by _Ricky's_ definition.

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## MASadict

Mr Mando, your "Angry Young Mando" monicker fits you well

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## 12 fret

not to start another controversy, but I think the quote was..

"Shut up and play yer guitar"
  The late great Frank Zappa

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## mrmando

> Mr Mando, your "Angry Young Mando" monicker fits you well


Aw, shucks. That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all day.

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## John Rosett

Ricky's still mad about what Jimmy Martin said about him.

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## MikeEdgerton

So, let me get this right. It's Ricky's duty as an American to not call it as he sees it?

Was this letter from Rhonda Vincent wrong as well? If not was it because she chose her words carefully? Your perception becomes your reality. Ricky's perception is his reality. It may not be your reality but nobody asked you what your feelings were in an interview.

There's a picture somewhere of Johnny Cash showing the record industry in Nashville that they are Number 1 in his book after what he perceived as a snub. Was he a bad American for taking out a full page ad with his picture on it to say that?

People are interested in hearing what Ricky says. He says it and you have every right to disagree with him but that doesn't mean he isn't right to say what he thinks.

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## mrmando

Sigh. 

I don't see Rhonda calling anyone names in her letter, no. There is a difference between Ricky expressing his opinion ("I'm upset because my record isn't on the chart; I think my record should be on that chart") and calling people names ("those people are ignorant and jealous"). The former is a fair statement about Ricky; the latter is an unfair statement about someone else. Ricky couldn't possibly know whether people are jealous, and it's not likely that IBMA board members are in any sense ignorant about bluegrass or about Ricky's record.

The Cash thing was juvenile, and I bet if you had asked Cash about it a few years later, he would admit that it was juvenile.

Ricky is also being juvenile. And if you think "right to freedom of expression" equals "license to be juvenile," then...

you're welcome to your opinion, in which you have the full support of every juvenile in America.

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## JimD

Good thing he didn't come out against illegal downloading or unauthorized youtube videos.

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## Dave Caulkins

I find it interesting that Skagg's latest outing even places on ANY Bluegrass charts... not just because of that really, really, really odd treatment of "Superfreak". I think it could be argued that it's little enough a country album, let alone a bluegrass one.

If I remember correctly, this is also this mandolinist who wanted upon Monroe's death to be hailed as the "father of bluegrass to be"... His ego, has, shall I say, gotten carried away with itself. I love his traditional styled albums, so don't get me wrong... (I spin them with odd frequency...) 

I like Bluegrass, it isn't my primary genre by any stretch, but I enjoy some home cookin' now and again, so to speak. I've heard a bit of the new album on XM (not Bluegrass Junction, mind you, but X-Country). #I don't think what I've heard is BG at all... I mean... Piano? I'm not an instrument "racist" but... jeez... at best that is going to be Honky Tonk or Classic County in most purists eyes... It's kinda modern country with jam band influence... Not terrible, but I've listened to each track once... and proceeded to change to Bluegrass Junction subsequently (you caught me, I use satellite radio for two channels!).

All in all, this is a big "get over yourself"... I'm not going to walk out of the fan base... but really.... Hornsby wrote singer-songwriter stuff, plays piano, played with the Dead, has hordes of hippies... 

What would Bill say?

Yeah, I thought so...

Dave

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## 12 fret

Even better that he waited to announce his upcoming tour with the Dixie Chicks

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## zookplayer

> People are interested in hearing what Ricky says. He says it and you have every right to disagree with him but that doesn't mean he isn't right to say what he thinks.


actually I have to say you're absolutely right and I take back my 'shut up & sing' statement. he certainly has the right to speak his mind... no question.

but for him to call IBMA ignorant & jealous because they choose not to put his collaboration with Hornsby on the list seems like whining on steroids.

who cares Ricky? play the music that makes you happy and be happy.

my $.02

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## MikeEdgerton

Cash thought it was right to the end. Rhonda is ok because she didn't call names. Do you see a problem here? Because someone chooses the words they choose they are wrong. You assume that Johnny felt bad, he didn't. Skaggs expressed what he felt. Disagree by saying you don't think that's the reason, that's your right. He has the right to call it as he sees it. He called it.

By the way, we've all got a "license to be juvenile". I'll wear it proudly.

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## MikeEdgerton

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines&gt;_

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## mrmando

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines&gt;_

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## Scott Tichenor

Name calling will stop now guys. Both of you are pushing it too far.

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## mrmando

_&lt;Comment removed for violating board posting guidelines&gt;_

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## gospelman

Is it strange that the only cut on the album I really liked was "Superfreak"?

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## 12 fret

All this over what Ricky Skaggs thinks????/

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## zookplayer

> All this over what Ricky Skaggs thinks????/


right... does seem silly... time better spent playing... not squabbling via keyboards... 'computer OFF!'

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## mandolooter

Ricky who? Did I miss something? I hate to see things degenerate down to name calling. Music sure can stir up the emotions now can't it....even just talkin'bout it! Maybe he just needs a Super Administrator to edit his comments too!

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## MikeEdgerton

For the record, I didn't call anyone a name, I simply posted a PM and that's against the rules, and Martin thanks for the apology.

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## DryBones

> What would Bill say?


" That ain't no part of nothin' "

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## allenhopkins

Well, anyone can say what anyone thinks (as long as you don't violate posting guidelines!), but it does seem unwise to burn your bridges or bite the hand that feeds ya, IMHO. Since his brief flirtation with "country stardom" around 20 years ago, Ricky S has relied on bluegrass audiences and bluegrass venues for a large part of his success. Throwin' the insults and deprecations around won't help him in either area.

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## jim simpson

WHAT you were thinking when you recorded that cover of "Superfreak"...


They should have done "Can't Touch This" instead!

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## D C Blood

Ricky will have his Hornsby thing nominated and maybe seleccted for a Grammy. He doesn't need the ibma...

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## Pete Martin

Ricky just has to deflect Jimmy Martins anger somewhere...

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## bootinz

What did Jimmy Martin say about Ricky?

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## Bernie Daniel

I agree Skaggs has the right to say what he thinks -- but I wish he had not used that approach.

To me Ricky Skaggs is a powerful force in bluegrass, a consumate instrunmentalist, an incredible singer, and the heritage -- he has direct links right back to the founder(s) of the music. He is as "real" as it gets. He is and will remain right among the very top of my list of performers -- no question. 

So he is a big man and I feel big men should act the part. He is also becoming an elderstatesman -- no kid any more. Time does that.

So sure its fine to say the IBMA missed the boat. But why call them ingnorant and jealous? No need for that and it sounds petty and stupid in my opinion.

IBMA jealous? Jealous over what? 

And as to ignorant -- if they are ignorant then why did they name his band as instrumental band of the year for the last umpteen years in a row?

I will still listen and admire Ricky Skaggs -- he is just outstanding on stage -- but those remarks were "small time" -- IMHO

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## Tim

There's a line about not wanting to see how sausage is made. #I generally feel that way about most artistic efforts. #There is just too much stuff I'd normally enjoy that I'd miss if I worried about the faults and quirks of the artist.

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## swampy

If Bill is the Father and Jimmy the King, what does that make Ricky?

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## MadMax

To find out what Jimmy Martin allegedly said about Ricky Skaggs, read Tom Piazza's "True Adventures With the King of Bluegrass." 

If Jimmy's quotes are accurate, I couldn't agree more.

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## sgarrity

Sounds like a book i need to read

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## DryBones

just heard Hills of Mexico on Sirius BLuegrass channel 65. must be bluegrass enough for them.

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## Romkey

Well, quite a discussion without being too certain about the context of Ricky's comment!

These "what's really bluegrass" arguments don't seem to result in much more than the "what's really Irish" debates. I was just listening to a Bill Monroe tune with accordion on it, for crying out loud, so what's the big deal about piano? (Clarinet might be a reach, even for me -- apologies to Andy Statman. And "Superfreak" is perhaps a questionable choice of material.) While there is a point where a tune isn't bluegrass so much as something else, some of this seems more like a discussion about politics than music. (And maybe IBMA politics.) 

If I get this right, the IBMA isn't following the CD in its chart because it doesn't consider the album "bluegrass," and Ricky is irate, probably because that impacts his sales. So, maybe this issue is political and economic as well as musical? 

I was playing with some people one time a guy came up to the banjo player and told him one of things he did during his break wasn't really a bluegrass lick. I guess everybody is entitled to an opinion.

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## Timbofood

I think maybe some need to get re-newal forms for their "Juvenile License" #My sister loves Mr. Scaggs, me...not so much. Some is quite exciting, all technically interesting. #Do I really care what he says about IBMA? Not really. I am happy to be able to exercise my right of personal censorship and turn it off when I don't want to hear it.

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## Tighthead

> For the record, I didn't call anyone a name, I simply posted a PM and that's against the rules, and Martin thanks for the apology.


Isn't the fellow whose "private" communication you were going to post owed an apology, too, since you went ahead and made his public?

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## Joe Dodson

> We actually had a guy show up at a bluegrass jam with a clarinet one night. The guy knew all the songs and took some amazing breaks on that thing.


Breaks shmakes. How was he on rhythm clarinet?

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## Scott Tichenor

I'm not going to tolerate further discussion or analysis of what transpired above, and I'd really appreciate it if the parties involved refrain from doing so as well. Things like this happen from time to time and I dealt with it. It's by us now. Continuing to bring it up serves no one.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Originally Posted by  
> 
> We actually had a guy show up at a bluegrass jam with a clarinet one night. The guy knew all the songs and took some amazing breaks on that thing.
> 
> 
> Breaks shmakes. #How was he on rhythm clarinet?


I can't seem to recall, I was dazzled by the fact that he could play Foggy Mountain Breakdown on the Clarinet.

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## hoffmannia2k7

Har Har Har, Mr. Sticky Raggs just gained some respect in my book!

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## jmcgann

> Breaks shmakes. How was he on rhythm clarinet?


How long can you sustain a note without tremolo and modulate the dynamics?

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## Jim Broyles

John, we aren't talking heavy compression/distortion and a volume pedal, are we?

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## adgefan

> These "what's really bluegrass" arguments don't seem to result in much more than the "what's really Irish" debates. I was just listening to a Bill Monroe tune with accordion on it, for crying out loud, so what's the big deal about piano? (Clarinet might be a reach, even for me -- apologies to Andy Statman.


So what did we all think of Ricky's last album which was touted as bluegrass, sounded far more like Irish music and contained plenty of clarinet, and if I recall correctly, accordion?  

Slightly off-track - last year a trombone player turned up to a local bluegrass festival. He respected the sessions, the other musicians respected him and together they made great music. He was marvellous, and to many was the highlight of the festival!

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## chip

picky ricky...

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## hoffmannia2k7

Trombone could sound really nice as a rythym bass jug sounding type thing.

Bill Monroe had a pump organ and accordion did he not.

It is all good.

And anyhow, Bruce Hornsby is raelly great and so is Sticky Rags and I am gonna go out and get this album.

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## Enigmatic Recluse

I haven't been able to find what Jimmy Martin said about Ricky Skaggs, but here is a review of Tom Piazza's book. Sounds like Ricky Skaggs wasn't the one with the problem. 

Jimmy Martin entered the hermetic world of bluegrass music at the age of 22 by approaching Bill Monroe backstage at the Grand Ole Opry in 1949 and asking if he could play a song. As the story goes, Monroe hired Martin on the spot, with Martin becoming one of Monroe's most visible and talented sidemen. He eventually formed his own band, the Sunny Mountain Boys, had hit records and performed on the Grand Ole Opry. But he was never invited to become a regular member of the Opry, a professional slight that Martin has still not got over. Tom Piazza wanted to know why Martin, who remains at the age of 72 a legend to bluegrass aficionados, had failed to earn a place of prominence in the Nashville music establishment. What he got instead was a tour of Jimmy Martin's private hell. As Piazza presents him in ''True Adventures With the King of Bluegrass,'' Martin is a horror -- a loud, boastful, mean drunk. Piazza, a music critic, pulls the reader in so close to the action that one can practically smell the odor of whisky on Martin's breath and feel the suffocation of darkness closing in around Martin's isolated home. To Piazza's credit, we also feel Martin's anger and hurt. As Marty Stuart warns in his excellent foreword, ''Time spent with the King of Bluegrass is not for the lily-livered or the faint of heart.''

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## mandopete

> If Bill is the Father and Jimmy the King, what does that make Ricky?


I believe that would make him the Clown Prince.

You know, his comments do sound a bit juvenile to me. #What does jealousy have to do with it?

I'm not sure what "chart" he is referring to. #I think the National Bluegrass Survey (as found in Bluegrass Unlimited) comes from the various radio stations that play bluegrass music. #If the recording isn't getting much airplay it's because the programmers don't #like it much or the listeners aren't requesting it. #As a bluegrass programmer here in Seattle I'd say it's both. #Jealousy? #That ain't no part a nuthin' son!

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## Ken Sager

I think it's funny that a lot of "Bluegrass" stations (or stations that play "Bluegrass") play the songs on the BU chart simply *because* they're on the chart... so they're on the chart because they get played, yet they get played because they're on the chart...

I'm the chicken, you're the eggman, Paul's the walrus, Ricky's the clown prince.

So far this is the most entertaining thread of the day.

Love to all,
Ken

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## mandopete

I do a "Top 5" countdown as part of my 3 hour bluegrass show on KBCS. #It's sort of a goof like the old Top 10 Countdown things you hear on the radio in the 50's and 60's. #I also think it's interesting for the listeners to hear what is being considered as "popular" bluegrass today.

Hey, I play plenty of unpopular bluegrass too.

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## Keith Erickson

What was said was said and that's that.

Mr. Skaggs is probably a little ticked off with an organization that he has spent much of his time and energy being a part of over the years. We are all people and we have difference between us.

However in the end music is music and it's the open market place which dictates what is a success or what is a failure.

Hey look at my hero Richard Halley. I would much rather go the route of Mr. Halley to make and prove a valid point

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## Romkey

((So what did we all think of Ricky's last album which was touted as bluegrass, sounded far more like Irish music and contained plenty of clarinet, and if I recall correctly, accordion?))

I call it homage to Celtic music. An ITRAD Nazi would call it fake Irish music, but I'm not down with that. I thought the piece recorded with the orchestra was interesting. That's the brilliant Mr. Statman on the clarinet. How one ends up being a mandolin AND clarinet virtuoso is a profound mystery.

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## lovethemf5s

I saw a Ricky Skaggs concert over ten years ago after he made the transition from country music to bluegrass and he was bad mouthing country music something awful. Sounded like sour grapes to me.

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## adgefan

> That's the brilliant Mr. Statman on the clarinet. How one ends up being a mandolin AND clarinet virtuoso is a profound mystery.


Brilliant indeed. I love Gallatin Rag, must learn that one soon.

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## zookplayer

> So he is a big man and I feel big men should act the part. He is also becoming an elderstatesman -- no kid any more. Time does that.
> 
> So sure its fine to say the IBMA missed the boat. But why call them ingnorant and jealous? #No need for that and it sounds petty and stupid in my opinion.
> 
> IBMA jealous? Jealous over what? 
> 
> And as to ignorant -- if they are ignorant then why did they name his band as instrumental band of the year for the last umpteen years in a row?
> 
> I will still listen and admire Ricky Skaggs -- he is just outstanding on stage -- but those remarks were "small time" -- IMHO


I think you summed it up nicely. we expect more out of someone of his stature. I've admired his playing for more years than I can remember. the Skaggs & Rice album remains near the top of my all time favorites.

but whenever I've seen him live (handfull of times over the years), he's managed to open his mouth and say something that really puts me off and, unfortunately, those moments come back to me when I hear his music.

if he had just said that he thinks IBMA has missed the boat and let it go at that, it would have been cool. but, then again, I don't think that would be like him.

c'est la vie - he's gotten our attention though hasn't he? hmmmm...

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## hattio

So what _did_ Jimmy Martin say about Ricky Skaggs?

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## mandopete

> c'est la vie - he's gotten our attention though hasn't he? hmmmm...


Hey, it worked for Paris Hilton didn't it?

Yeah, I think if he put forth a thoughtful commentary regarding the IBMA it would be one thing, but to call the entire organization ignorant and jealous, that's just Ricky I guess.

I too very much admire his mandolin playing and enjoyed his earlier return-to-bluegrass recordings such as Bluegrass Rules and Ancient Tones. #I liked each successive recording less and less. #But then I'm just ignorant and jealous.

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## cooper4205

> I haven't been able to find what Jimmy Martin said about Ricky Skaggs, but here is a review of Tom Piazza's book. Sounds like Ricky Skaggs wasn't the one with the problem.


there is also a section in the Bluegrass Reader that breifly covers Martins' backstage thoughts on Skaggs. There was also a video clip on the internet with Martin talking about Skaggs. I tell you one thing, Jimmy sure could drop the F-bombs!


Jimmy's thoughts on Ricky, Pt. 1 (watch out, if you don't like choice language, don't click the link)

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## AlanN

Jimmy aged well, dontcha think??

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## Jim MacDaniel

Even if one can't chop worth a darn on it, a good clarinet has a nice woody tone.

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## Mike Bunting

On an album called Holiday in Japan by J.D. Crowe, recorded live in Japan in 1975, I was embarrassed when Skaggs did one of those mocking "Ah, so" types of a fake Japanese accent while introducing a song. That was 32 years ago and I thought that he was an insensitive lout then and in the ensuing years nothing much has changed to alter my opinion despite his obvious musical talents. I was told in a whispered aside from a very prominent member of the Nashvile bluegrass community that no one pays him much heed anymore.

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## Tbone

I personally cannot stand ricky scaggs. He's a great picker, and his band is great....but I refuse to spend one single cent on that guy's products. Last time I saw him at rockygrass, about 3 years ago, he was condescending and talked down to the crowd the whole time. He spent 10 minutes talking about fried chicken, then said "but you all probably don't eat that out here", insuitaing that the entire crowd was a bunch of dirty hippies.

The guy is a jerk, plain and simple.

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## AlanN

> On an album called Holiday in Japan by J.D. Crowe, recorded live in Japan in 1975, I was embarrassed when Skaggs did one of those mocking "Ah, so" types of a fake Japanese accent while introducing a song.


Jethro did a similar thing at a 1982 birthday bash at the birchmere, where Akira Otsuka was on stage. I thought it in poor taste, just as I thought of Skaggs' remarks on that tape you mention. Oh well, from cradle to grave...

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## swampy

> The Skaggs & Rice album remains near the top of my all time favorites.
> 
> 
> c'est la vie - he's gotten our attention though hasn't he? hmmmm...


Skaggs and Rice is one of my top five albums of all time. Incredible singing and very tasty playing, however, for the record I've never cared much for him as a person. 

I heard a live recording when he was supporting Tony's Manzanita album (late 70's I think) and he just wouldn't stop talking...about himself.

What's next? The IBMA drummer of the year award.

This thread has been incredibly fun!

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## sgarrity

I just watched those Jimmy Martin videos......that's embarassing. Makes ya feel sorry for the ol fella. But I reckon he did it to himself. It's unfortunate too, cuz he sure could sing!

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## Jim Broyles

> I just watched those Jimmy Martin videos......that's embarassing. Makes ya feel sorry for the ol fella. But I reckon he did it to himself. It's unfortunate too, cuz he sure could sing!


Now there was jealousy and sour grapes if I ever heard it. In my opinion, Jimmy was bitter that he wasn't made a member of the Opry.

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## Jim Broyles

> Originally Posted by  (Mike Bunting @ July 06 2007, 13:45)
> 
> On an album called Holiday in Japan by J.D. Crowe, recorded live in Japan in 1975, I was embarrassed when Skaggs did one of those mocking "Ah, so" types of a fake Japanese accent while introducing a song.
> 
> 
> Jethro did a similar thing at a 1982 birthday bash at the birchmere, where Akira Otsuka was on stage. I thought it in poor taste, just as I thought of Skaggs' remarks on that tape you mention. Oh well, from cradle to grave...


You know, I am familiar with things like this just from observing people over the years. A lot of times, they don't even get that they are being stereotypically offensive. I doubt Ricky or Jethro would have intentionally mocked their hosts or fellow performers, I think they actually thought they were trying to be culturally relevant. When I go to visit family in Virginia, hard-core non-PC stuff is heard all over the place but nobody is deliberately offensive. They just don't get it.

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## theBlood

2 Points come to mind

 For one, Bill Monroe wouldn't have liked the CD either, and probably wouldn't have encouraged its play. My guess is that the IBMA is acting as a kind of continuance of Bill's determination to keep the genre as a discreet entity. Bill has his critics for doing the same thing as IBMA is doing with Ricky, would be my point. 
  Secondly, music history is filled with gripes by successful musicians against institutions such as the Grand Ol Opry, the grammies, or whatever. It comes with the territory, it seems, that doing any kind of exploration with a genre's form produces some resistance from the keepers of the faith. Dylan with the folk community, etc... 
  Both have their places I guess, the musical establishment and the independent mind of a musician.


Youngblood

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## 12 fret

Seems like we expect too much from performers. The single-mindedness that it take to get good enough to succeed also results in a certain cluelessness on things outside of that focus. When performers make dopey, crude statments the best response is to laugh at them and realize that you can be a talented performer and a complete doofus at the same time. Skaggs comments probably don't even make the top 20 of "dumb celebrity quotations". If you like his music, buy it and don't worry about what to call it. If you don't like, there's thousands of other people to listen to.

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## Mike Bunting

12 fret is right. At the jazz festival the other day, I saw the most amazing drummer I've ever seen here playing a free jazz gig with friends he'd played with for more than 30 years, truly brilliant on any musical level. He borrowed my cell phone to make a call but had to get me to dial it for him!

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## mandopete

> When performers make dopey, crude statments the best response is to laugh at them and realize that you can be a talented performer and a complete doofus at the same time.


Are you serious?

I don't see a smiley face.

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## 12 fret

The "smiley" is implied but I'll stand by it as a serious statement.

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## John Ritchhart

Just because someone excels in a particular discipline or area of endeavor doesn't mean they are accomplished human beings. Look at academics for example. Some of the best musicians I ever met were dumber than a bag of hammers in all matters else. In fact I think it the exception that a phenom is also a great, well rounded, human.

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## mandopete

No excuse.

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## John Ritchhart

I think you're right Pete. But anyone who spends that much time on one thing can't be expected to be decent at everything.

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## Milan Christi

I've been fortunate to meet some of my musical heroes and in most cases they didn't live up to my expectations on a personal level - but that's not their problem - it's mine. I can probably learn more from them on a musical level than they can learn from me on a personal level so I think I'm still coming out ahead

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## Soupy1957

Wasn't the main reason that Ricky started his own label, because the major record labels didn't want to put out "traditional" Bluegrass material?

I'm surprised he was willing to record with one other than his own, but "flavoring" (my choice of words), is always neat for a song or two. 

We've got a guy who comes to OUR "Jam" locally, with a scrub board, a cheese grater, wooden spoons, etc...

-Soupy1957

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## AlanN

> We've got a guy who comes to OUR "Jam" locally, with a scrub board, a cheese grater, wooden spoons, etc...


And if the jam goes south, y'all can stop and make a salad

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## zookplayer

> No excuse.


well put.

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## Bradley

Well after viewing the Jimmy Martin video we see why his Legacy is what it is.....a grumpy old drunk.

Even Monroes history is filled with comments and many actions that are less becoming than we would like to think.
We all do things that are stupid and the mouth is especailly dangerous when things come flying out of it.
Ricky made a mistake, and who knows the real perspective that he meant it. I feel that he was frustrated that he worked this project with a new twist or flavor and the IBMA has boxed him out of "their list". I personally am a Skaggs fan, but have not bought the instrumental and definitely will not pick up the Hornsby project. I will anxiously look forward to the new projects that are on the horizon. 

If we are entitled to bash Ricky on this board over his

1. return to Bluegrass
2. Country music career
3. His religous convictions
4. His hair
5. his clothes
6. Why he got to play Monroes Mandolin at the Country 
  hall of fame
7. Mother stories
8. On stage antics
9. Mandolin collection
10 His Gibson Signature model
11 Monroe Heirdom
12 His Grammys
13 Fried Chicken fettish.........


And we dont allow him to say anything that we disagree with....Is that fair ?

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## 12 fret

Nobody is "not allowing" him to say anything. He already said it.Having said in the manner he chose to say it, I can only assume he's willing to accept the criticism or praise that follows.

Case in point ( moderators correct me if I'm wrong) , referring to another member of this board as "jealous" or "ignorant" as a means to advance an argument will get your posting deleted. Nobody is restricting rights here either, they are simply defining a framework for civil discourse. Society as a whole also has rules and if someone chooses to advance their point of view via childish name calling, they can expect no better in return

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## jmcgann

No comment on the current controversy other than two little opinions:

1) One of the finest singers ever...the duo album with Tony Rice that was tossed off in a weekend has some of the best (most soulful, expressive, and accomplished) singing on the planet, in any idiom, ever. That recording is a masterpiece.

2) A guy who entered commercial country music from a truly deep rooted bluegrass background, and did a lot to bring the roots of country music back to the public eye in the '80's when it was going mostly in the phase shifter '70's rock direction, in Nashville's 10 year lag of trying to #'be contemporary'. I think he helped open the door for a lot of other rooted artists like Vince Gill and Dwight, because as we know, "most people" need to be told something is cool before they will like it.

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## cooper4205

> Even Monroes history is filled with comments and many actions that are less becoming than we would like to think.


That's what made him Monroe.

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## Enigmatic Recluse

> yada yada yada
> If we are entitled to bash Ricky on this board over his
> 
> yada yada yada
> 4. His hair
> yada yada yada


I'd like to see a whole section of the board devoted to this kind of thing. What is up with these dudes and their hair? Chris Thile looks like he is on his way to audition for 90210. And don't even get me started on Marty Stuart...

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## 12 fret

Listen to them when they start to play, stop listening when they start to talk about anything other than playing. Comments about mullets are culturally insensitive.

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## brunello97

That high and lonesome sound:

"Going back in Chinatown
Three's not a crowd to her, she says
"Room 714, I'll be waiting"
When I get there she's got incense, wine and candles
It's such a freaky scene That girl is pretty wild now
The girl's a super freak
The kind of girl you read about
In new-wave magazine
That girl is pretty kinky
The girl's a super freak" 

Hair notwithstanding, I dig Marty Robbins. Now considering The Mullet as a Cultural Statement (and worthy of our sensitivity) is VERY interesting. Been thinking about canning the shaved head of late. The Stetson has been riding a little low.

Mick

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## Jim Broyles

Marty Robbins?

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## brunello97

Aah, maybe I've got my Martys mixed up. I feel a little more confident about the hair thing, though.

growin' a beard,

Mick

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## 12 fret

Are we talking about Marty Streets of Laredo small size 5 guitar Robbins or Marty used to play mando for Lester Flatt skin tight jeans Clarence White Telecaster quasi mullet Stuart?

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## Enigmatic Recluse

Actually, I meant Marty McFly.

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## Peter Hackman

> Trombone could sound really nice as a rythym bass jug sounding type thing.
> 
> Bill Monroe had a pump organ and accordion did he not.
> 
> It is all good.
> 
> And anyhow, Bruce Hornsby is raelly great and so is Sticky Rags and I am gonna go out and get this album.


Maybe I'm sidetracking the topic here (not sure it hurts!), but:

It seems that all discussions about the purity and boundaries of bluegrass
(a kind of discussionI would noramlly not engage in)
 that accordion and organ are being brought up.
Just a few remarks (I leave the applications to the reader):

1) I think the most signifcant thing about the accordion (pre-Flatt & Scruggs)
is that Monroe didn't go hunting for another accordion player when Sally Ann
left. Neither did he look for a new banjo player sounding like Stringbean.
He was apparently through with that 
stompy stuff and looking for a different groove.

2) I'm pretty sure that organ was an electric, possibly a B3 - I even think I hear a Leslie on "Angels Rock Me to Sleep". Signficantly the organ was played by Owen Bradley who was in charge of the sessions and most likely conceived of them as gospel sessions, applying some of the production techniques
of that genre. Another indication of this is the way the quartet was
treated as soloist+backup vocals on several numbers.

Some of this stuff may have had Monroe's approval but it was still alien
to his ideas of his music, as was clearly illustrated by his live versions
of, e.g., Pilgrim and Wayfaring Stranger (at least in the first case I prefer
the studio version).

I believe Skaggs was in full charge of that Hornsby collaboration.

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## csstanley

Just because of this thread, I went and bought myself Live at Charleston Music Hall.

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## JohnF

Bill Monroe may have experimented but he soon realized his error and went back to the core instruments:D 
For what it's worth, I agree that's it's all good but at the same time I always find myself saying that ain't bluegrass and perahps IBMA should do the same - and stop it with the country music artists hosting bluegrass events! 
Skaggs can have his opinions but last time I saw him he spent 10 minutes talking about how his momma's chicken could lure terrorists out of their caves. Time before he yelled at a guy for being drunk and made a comment in a voice that was seemingly aimed at minorities so he does scare me a bit! Then again I'm just a Northeast bleeding heart tree-hugger: :Wink: :

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## MikeVB

JohnF,

I'm from way down deep in South Georgia and I don't care for him at all either. The man is about as talented as anyone that's ever walked the face of the earth, but his personality, attitude, comments, and swagger just turn me off so much I can't hardly listen to him anymore - well, except for the Skaggs and Rice album!

As for WSM-style mandolin, personally I don't think anyone can hold a candle to Compton.

That's all I've got to say about that.

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## Steve Cantrell

Quote:As for WSM-style mandolin, personally I don't think anyone can hold a candle to Compton.

That's all I've got to say about that.

Ditto.

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## JohnF

Amen on that Skaggs and Rice Album! Listened to that the other day.

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## K3NTUCKI8oy

Well the stuff Ricky and Bruce composed and recorded in my opinion wasnt bluegrass at all.
If he wants to call IBMA ignorant maybe he should start writing more of his own songs,
and I mean (Traditional Bluegrass) that he boasted he was going to carry the torch for.
For him to make such a statement makes him look like a pouting little kid. If he really
expects the IBMA to love what he's done with Hornsby he should just keep his mandolin in 
its case.

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## Bradley

They are going to be on one of the Morning news shows friday (Skaggs and Hornsby) for those wanting a taste
tune in to I believe CBS early on Friday

THE EARLY SHOW BROADCASTS LIVE FROM Fayetteville Street FEATURING A PERFORMANCE BY Bruce Hornsby & Ricky Skaggs

(7/9/07) The Early Show has lined up a world-class roster of musicians for our summer concert series and taking the show on the road! On Friday, July 13, 2007 from 7:00 AM to 9:00 AM, the action is happening at Fayetteville Street in Raleigh where Bruce Hornsby & Ricky Skaggs will be performing a LIVE concert for CBS The Early Show!

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## EggerRidgeBoy

> Originally Posted by  (JoeD @ July 06 2007, 11:01)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by  
> 
> ...


Speaking of clarinets in bluegrass, I just came across this article yesterday: http://www.forward.com/articles/mixi...ntain-musics/.

"Listening closely to Leverett playing bluegrass leads on her clarinet and you will acknowledge that it is indeed still bluegrass, but the rarity of the woodwind sound in bluegrass makes it almost sound like a whole new genre."

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## JeffD

> No comment on the current controversy other than two little opinions:
> 
> 1) One of the finest singers ever...the duo album with Tony Rice that was tossed off in a weekend has some of the best (most soulful, expressive, and accomplished) singing on the planet, in any idiom, ever. That recording is a masterpiece.
> 
> 2) A guy who entered commercial country music from a truly deep rooted bluegrass background, and did a lot to bring the roots of country music back to the public eye in the '80's when it was going mostly in the phase shifter '70's rock direction, in Nashville's 10 year lag of trying to #'be contemporary'. I think he helped open the door for a lot of other rooted artists like Vince Gill and Dwight, because as we know, "most people" need to be told something is cool before they will like it.


Well said.

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## JeffD

> Seems like we expect too much from performers. The single-mindedness that it take to get good enough to succeed also results in a certain cluelessness on things outside of that focus. When performers make dopey, crude statments the best response is to laugh at them and realize that you can be a talented performer and a complete doofus at the same time.


I find it is often worse than this - that those who can communicate profoundly with music or painting or architecture, and even the written word, often are very limited, and perhaps even handicapped, in the skills required for direct real time human to human communications.

I am of the "shut up and sing" persuasion, and I try not to pay attention to what performers say or do outside of their performing.

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## Timbofood

Once again I see the tradition of "build 'em up and tear 'em down" starting on yet another personality that has, alright maybe, Gotten a little above his Raisin'. Oh, well.

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## GTison

"Frau Blucher"  .....

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## Mike Bunting

To get away from personalities etc., and back to the topic. We all define the parameters for what we'll accept as bluegrass. I don't think that it would be proper to denigrate anyone for having tastes that include bluegrass that is outside my definition and the IBMA has their definition, and the right to it. I think that Skaggs showed a certain lack of taste in judgement in making his statement. He is a big enough star that he could have stayed above it.

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## 12 fret

[QUOTE] He is a big enough star that he could have stayed above it.

They just can't stop themselves. I have not heard the CD, I imagine a collaboration with Bruce Hornsby would not necessarily be Bluegrass. Has anyone who has heard the CD want to render a Bluegrass / Not Bluegrass assessment?

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## mandopete

> Has anyone who has heard the CD want to render a Bluegrass / Not Bluegrass assessment?


You're kidding, right?

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## JHo

It was indeed a rash statement about the IBMA's ignorance. I can only assume he regrets saying such a thing in hindsight. As is life I guess.

As for the album I've heard it, and I'd say it's partly bluegrass influenced, played partly in a bluegrass style, and played mostly on bluegrass instruments, but it doesn't sound like something that Bill Monroe would have called bluegrass per se. I can see how the IBMA would be reluctant to put this in the running with other more traditional bluegrass (string) bands. I'd imagine that there are some bluegrass purists at the IBMA that aren't too keen on the idea of a bluegrass band with a piano and drums and of course Superfreak, which left me almost speechless. It's interesting what they did with it, but still I couldn't help but laugh when I heard it. The laughing stopped a few minutes after the song ended. I bet they had a hoot recording that one.

As for how I'll categorize it, I will call it Ricky-fusion.

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## Gutbucket

God bless America and thank God for Pigeon-holing! Amen

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## JeffD

Who knows what Bill Monroe would be trying if he were alive today. 

I would hate to see Bluegrass become ossified due to the stranglehold of a man eleven years dead.

Oh, I better duck now.

Incoming!!

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## MandoSquirrel

"other more traditional bluegrass (string) bands" Pianos have strings! 

"Who knows what Bill Monroe would be trying if he were alive today. I would hate to see Bluegrass become ossified due to the stranglehold of a man eleven years dead." He invented Bluegrass, so his definition is the one that holds most merit.

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## 12 fret

Re; speculation on what Monroe would be doing now, I think the answer is same as he always did. I don't hear much difference throughout other than line up changes. He stuck to what he belived in musically. I don't however, think the model of "The Sportcoat Mountain Boys" band has much long term potential Guys like Rice, Grisman, Douglas, and Keith have explored the edges of bluegrass and redefined it for a lot of us. The difference is they don't bitch about it if someone challenges it for being non-traditional. Monroe didn't try to fit anyone else's definition of string band music, he went his way and didn't give a rat's rear if critics or associations liked it

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## Mike Bunting

[QUOTE]Monroe didn't try to fit anyone else's definition of string band music, he went his way and didn't give a rat's rear if critics or associations liked it [/QUOTE
Perhaps Little Ricky should take a leaf from the old man whose torch he is carrying.

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## C. Carr

Man, this thread has become way more intense than I'd ever have guessed.
Listen, "Super Freak" was just a goof. If you saw the concert video, Bruce Hornsby was poking fun at his early days playing at the local Holiday Inn in the late '70;s/ early '80's.

If you haven't read Tom Piazza's book you should. The review posted above misses the point. Piazza wanted to like Jimmy and it appears that he did, nonetheless, its a "warts-and -all" appraisal. The man carried the Grand Ole Opry rejection around like a cross on his back.

Thanks for a great thread though, made my Sunday evening!!!

Regards,

Charlie Carr
New Orleans

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## re simmers

"you're just........ignorant." Andy

"you're just bein' nice." Ernest T. Bass

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## Russ Partain

I wonder what Bobby Hicks' comments would be on this subject. I am sure it would make the hair on your neck stand at attention.

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## Glassweb

Bill Monroe is dead? Well I'll be...! We should all be so alive after we've died.

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## 45ACP-GDLF5

> I wonder what Bobby Hicks' comments would be on this subject. #I am sure it would make the hair on your neck stand at attention.


Bobby told me what he thought about Ricky Skaggs four years ago, and it didn't surprise me in the least!!

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## K3NTUCKI8oy

[QUOTE= (Mike Bunting @ July 19 2007, 21:21)]


> Monroe didn't try to fit anyone else's definition of string band music, he went his way and didn't give a rat's rear if critics or associations liked it [/QUOTE
> Perhaps Little Ricky should take a leaf from the old man whose torch he is carrying.


But he wont do it Ricky is in it for the money
and the glory.

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## graciemuldoon

You can read my review of Skaggs/Hornsby's new cd at www.bluegrassmusicprofiles.com

I do spin the disc occassionally because at Worldwidebluegrass.com - #we play bluegrass new and old.. about 95% bluegrass and even - every now and then, #something that just isnt bluegrass by a bluegrass artist.. thats bluegrass inspired.. that we think is just plain old good music - though we state before spinning - we know it isnt bluegrass.. but it is GOOD MUSIC. #That disc is good, IMHO.

This was a project - with two talented musicians - topshelf artists.. that were having fun and just making good music.. that's all.

 #

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## MikeEdgerton

> Ricky is in it for the money...


And Bill Monroe wasn't?

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## JHo

Apparently Ricky has responded. Also shown is the original quote, which Ricky puts in context. See link below.

http://www.thebluegrassblog.com/rick...-ibma-remarks/

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## entau

ricky has the right to speak his mind or say whatever he wants to say-

but that hair ....

puleeze

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## JHo

You mean "that heir"? 

I like Ricky, but still I just couldn't resist throwing that in there.

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## 12 fret

From his response, he thinks bluegrass is his "core audience". ????

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## GVD

> From his response, he thinks bluegrass is his "core audience".


You mean he actually still has an audience?

GVD

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## Lefty&French

> "Frau Blucher" # #.....


"Doctor Frankensteen?"

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## AlanN

> Originally Posted by  (bowfinger @ July 19 2007, 20:39)
> 
> "Frau Blucher" # #.....
> 
> 
> "Doctor Frankensteen?"


..."Eye-gor"

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## Timbofood

I am amazed at how much information is taken out of context, then has it's intent "rearranged" and then thrown back in the conversation without any knowledge of the original statement. Thanks for getting the original 2 paragraphs out in view for better perspective.

"What Knockers!"

"Why, Thank you Doctor!"

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## AlanN

Hey, beats the Skaggs Bag anyday!

"Abby...somebody"

"Abby...somebody?"

"Yes, Abby...Normal"

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## jmcgann

> a unit that featured a young Lester Flatts on guitar


You know, Rascal Flatts' dad

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## jmcgann

> would hate to see Bluegrass become ossified


* become?*  




> Adjective: ossified #'ósu`fId
> Set in a rigidly conventional pattern of behaviour, habits, or beliefs
> "an ossified bureaucratic system"


Most 'traditional' bluegrass bands are much less "traditional" than they seem, if you hold the original Monroe/Flatt and Scruggs Blue Grass Boys music as the standard for traditional bluegrass...I think that band is the original traditional bluegrass band, no?

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## johnM

This does NOT surprise me what so ever. I saw Skaggs band last year and he was one arrogant mandolin player. Ive also never heard any cuts off the album with Bruce Hornsby on any radio station. 

I think its important to let Mr. Skaggs know that if it has a PIANO its NOT BLUEGRASS. Not saying its bad its just NOT BLUEGRASS MUSIC.

Someone please let him know that!

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## jmcgann

> cal·ci·fi·ca·tion #(kls-f-kshn)
> n.
>  An inflexible, unchanging state: calcification of negotiations.


The irony, of course, is that Monroe was an innovator, going against the grain of convention and having the balls to do something that, while different from the conventional way of doing things, was heartfelt and done with complete conviction. Think about him as being non-traditional, because he was!

He had an accordion in the band for awhile, and recorded with an organ- would you give HIM grief for that, I wonder?

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## Tim

> He had an accordion in the band for awhile, and recorded with an organ- would you give HIM grief for that, I wonder?


I wouldn't give him grief but I wouldn't automatically call it bluegrass either.

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## Mike Bunting

It all seems to be semantics to me. We seem to get along with the different labels of rock and roll, rock, R and B etc. Is thre some reason that I don't know about that says all acoustic music must be called bluegrass? I can hear the inherent sound and rhythms of bg. and it is pretty close to the old stuff. I like the new forms and many different styles, in fact one of the hippest CDs  I have is by the Wayfaring Strangers which has banjo (Trischka), mandolin (Statman and some guy named McGann) but I don't think that anyone wants to call it bluegrass.
 In the long run, it's only about the music, isn't it?

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## jmcgann

> I have is by the Wayfaring Strangers which has banjo (Trischka), mandolin (Statman and some guy named McGann) but I don't think that anyone wants to call it bluegrass.


We call it bluegrass tunes set to music *(JUST KIDDING!)*




> In the long run, it's only about the music, isn't it?


Call it what you like, but if it wasn't for bluegrass, that band and that music wouldn't exist (would probably be a relief to the diehard traditionalists...)

I'm with you, Mike, the question, subjective as it is, should be is "it" (Wayfaring, Skaggs, Zappa, Monroe, AKUS,Thiele, your favorite band here) good music or not...not "is it bluegrass or not"! Just IMHO.

A cow don't make ham*... # 

* quote from the great flatpicker Frank Zappa #

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## entau

if it don't have a banjer - it taint bluegrashe

wait wait wait

if the banjer ain't got all 5 strangs - it taint bluegrashe

wait wait wait 

if the base is one of them 'lectric thangs - it taint bluegrashe

wait wait wait 
if the fiddle player has got one of them "punk rock" hairdos and a pin through his nose -
it taint bluegrashe

if the mandolin and guitar ain't made by Gibson - it taint bluegrashe

and by God the mandolin player's name better not be "Bill" -ceptin the foundin father - God rest his soul

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## jmcgann

> He had an accordion in the band for awhile, and recorded with an organ- would you give HIM grief for that, I wonder?
> 
> I wouldn't give him grief but I wouldn't automatically call it bluegrass either.


Well, it _was_ the music of Bill Monroe- got another definition? #

----------


## kyblue

Who can define any kind of music any more? 

I certainly can't define 'country' any more, or 'rock' or 'pop' or 'folk' or whatever. Thankfully, XM has a feature on that site that allows you to type in an artist and find what channel(s) they might be playing on. Although, it doesn't seem to me like they know where to put some artists either.

Saw Old Crow Medicine Show Saturday night, I've been asked several time what kind of music they play and found myself using several genres to describe them. Hey, XM only puts them on X Country, described as "The roots of greasy, gritty, down-home country infused with folk, rock, and blues." The description sounds a lot like contemporary Nashville might bill itself, but I don't see a lot of parallels between Toby Keith and OCMS. 

I guess it's a good thing to me in a way, because I like good music and don't really care what bucket it comes from. Maybe all those different top whatever charts will eventually go the way of the CD, wherever that is.

Paula

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## Jim MacDaniel

I agree: XM's _X Country_ is the antithesis of contemporary (i.e., commercial) Nashville. Where else can you hear Hank III, BR549, Ray Wylie Hubbard, SCOTS, Michelle Shocked, AKUS, Marty Stuart w/ the Staple Singers, Mindy Smith, Dwight Yoakam, Reckless Kelly, Girlyman, King Wilkie, Steve Earle, Ryan Adams, Avett Brothers, Swampdawamp -- and Ricky & Bruce as well  -- all during the same broadcast?

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## Tim

> Well, it _was_ the music of Bill Monroe- got another definition? #


*"Was"* is the key word.

Consider this: #Edison invented the light bulb. #If he were somehow brought back around, I'm not sure I'd consider him the authority as to whether lasers, TV tubes and neon lights were "light bulbs".

Still, I maintain that a music genre is something that describes as song. #A song is or isn't in the "accepted" style of the genre. #A musician can play in the style of the genre all the time, sometime or never but he/she is not the genre. #Any song that Ricky Skaggs plays is either bluegrass or not (by some criteria) but even if every song he plays is bluegrass he is not "bluegrass" because he is a musician not a song.

Who decides what is "accepted" is the reason we have these threads. # 

Beyond that, I only care about the label to the extent that I don't have to flip by two thousand rap CDs to find a bluegrass CD.

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## jim simpson

I wonder if requests will start to be shouted out for Super Freak at Ricky's shows?

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## kyblue

Maybe "it's not bluegrass" is a nicer way of saying "it sucks" Ricky.

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## jmcgann

> Maybe "it's not bluegrass" is a nicer way of saying "it sucks" Ricky.


 #  : 

I did see a review in Bluegrass Unlimited one time, of an excellent old time album. The reviewer said "for my money, I'll take the hard drivin' sound of the bluegrass banjo over this any day!".

Whaddya gonna do

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## sirmando

People need to keep an open mind about music. Also he can say what every he is thinking this is a free country. I think he was just mad at them and had to vent.

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## Timbofood

This is getting silly, #it was said, it didn't really HURT anybody, it just shows that emotion can overdrive oral motor skills and his foot didn't get there first. #Can we just go on, maybe his next CD will not have anything on it but "Muleskinner Blues" 13 tracks. Would that make people happy? Ignorance can lie in the mouth of the speaker as much as the listener. #Didn't someone say:
"Better to keep you mouth shut and let people think you are stupid than to say someting and confirm it"

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## GVD

> ...Didn't someone say:
> "Better to keep you mouth shut and let people think you are stupid than to say someting and confirm it"...


That someone would be Mark Twain and the quote actually goes like this:

_"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."_

While this definitely applies in Ricky's case I think the following paraphrased Twain quote might be even more apropos:

_"Concerning the difference between Ricky and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass"_

GVD

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## Timbofood

Thanks GVD! I knew it was a great social commentator, just could not remember. The "jack" addendum is another pearl!

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## re simmers

Unbelievable number of responses and views to picky ricky in such a short period of time. Ricky speaks, and he sure does like to speak, and people listen and respond. Scott, are there any stats on what has generated the most posts in such a short period of time?

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## mandopete

> Scott, are there any stats on what has generated the most posts in such a short period of time?


Top Five would have to be....

5) What Is the Best Mandolin?

4) What Is Bluegrass?

3) Is Chris Thile the best mandolin player ever?

2) What do you think about Gibson?

1) Ricky Skaggs Said WhaT?

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## cooper4205

Pete-

You forgot the "What's the best string?" thread. It's gotta be up there somewhere

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## mboucher

> Originally Posted by  
> 
> ...Didn't someone say:
> "Better to keep you mouth shut and let people think you are stupid than to say someting and confirm it"...
> 
> 
> That someone would be Mark Twain and the quote actually goes like this:
> 
> _"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."_
> ...


Actually, GVD it is from Proverbs, long before Mark Twain

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding

Mark

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## mandolooter

Hey, I've called 'em both ignorant before too...lol!

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## Soupy1957

I think:

"-What Pick do you prefer" should be in the top 5.

-Soupy1957

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## Ivan Kelsall

Reading the quote from Ricky Skaggs" ......it just show's their ignorance" - i think ingnorance in this instance can be taken as it's literal meaning of a ''failure to know''as per a ''failure to know of my billboard position for the last X # of weeks ''.
  As for a few comments on music ''outside Bluegrass'',have any of you been listening to Bluegrassradio.org in recent months ?. Half the stuff they play these days seems to be 'outside Bluegrass',but the other half is great !,
                          saska

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## Steve Davis

To quote Duke Ellington: "If it sounds good it is good."

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## K3NTUCKI8oy

> Bill Monroe is dead? Well I'll be...! We should all be so alive after we've died.


WOW! You made a great view point there! um....yea ok...

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## K3NTUCKI8oy

> Originally Posted by  (K3NTUCKI8oy @ July 23 2007, 04:22)
> 
> Ricky is in it for the money...
> 
> 
> And Bill Monroe wasn't?


Mike don't question what I posted I'm sure you know
excactly what I meant.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Originally Posted by  (MikeEdgerton @ July 23 2007, 13:59)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by  (K3NTUCKI8oy @ July 23 2007, 04:22)
> 
> ...


Actually I didn't as the question was rhetorical. Thanks for writing.

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## mandolong

"If man were crossed with the cat it would improve the man.... #but diminish the cat"

MT

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