# Music by Genre > Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk >  What is Celtic Music

## trebleclef528

Hi

The term Celtic (which is pronounced KELTIC as mentioned on another thread) is widely used and often misused. Especially in musical terms it seems to have developed into a kind of "marketing" term.... however, a couple of years ago I asked nigel gatherer to write an article "WHAT IS CELTIC MUSIC".

It's interesting and makes a lot of sense especially considering the very complicated historical backgroud of "the Kelts"... so here is the article.....
What Is Celtic Music?

The term Celtic Music has problems, because it means different things to different people. To some it's a marketing label so that traditional music with roots in Ireland and Scotland can be found together in record shops and so on, and that's probably what most people understand by the term Celtic Music. 

To others it's a bond between "seven nations", Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Isle of Man, Brittany, Cornwall and Galicia - the so-called Celtic fringes, where the original Celtic tribes penetrated and survived to an extent. Many actually believe that the music and people of these areas are descendents of a mythical, romantic race, and it can lead to ideas of pure-blood supremacy. The truth is that there is no music from the times when Celtic tribes existed as an entity, and every one of these areas are now made up of descendants from many ethnic origins. Scotland itself consists of people with origins as diverse as Pictish, Celtic, Scandinavian, Dutch, French, Welsh, English, Italian, Polish, Indian, Pakistani... and so on.

If we identify Celtic Music as music mainly from Ireland and Scotland, the reason for a unifying term is that the music of these two countries has much in common, and there are many shared tunes within each tradition. It is generally accepted, for example, that the reel originated in Scotland, and was enthusiastically absorbed into Irish dance and music; many of the old Irish reels have origins in Scotland. Also, because of the many collections of fiddle music which were published in Scotland from the 18th century, music arrived in this way too. 

Travel and kinship between Scotland and Ireland over the centuries has resulted in a lot of exchange and cross- pollenation. It is said that at one time as much as a third of the population in Scotland's Central Lowlands had some Irish background, so with the waves of Irish immigrants came Irish culture. Today, towns such as Glasgow have a strong affinity with Irish music, while areas in Ireland such as Donegal have a strong affinity with Scottish music.

Celtic music has gone through various periods of fashion and disinterest. In 17th century England, for example, Scottish music became rather popular, and one of the first publications of printed music, Playford's collections, featured Scotch tunes. 

In the 19th century, Scottish culture was of great interest in the Europe of the Romantic era, and novels, paintings, stories and music were eagerly consumed. Beethoven, Hayden and other composers set arrangements of traditional Scottish tunes. In a similar way, Irish culture has been exalted in the past 20 years, and you now have a huge interest in Irish music: Irish bars all over the world, even Irish sandwich shops! Irish music was shaken up in the early 1960s when musician Sean O'Riada started arranging Irish tune sets in a new way, which wasn't traditional, but was judged by listeners as enhancing the music. 

Out of his ventures came The Chieftains, a group of traditional musicians who continued presenting the music in this new way, with multi-instrumental arrangements. They, and even more so in the 1970s with Irish folk groups such as The Bothy Band and Planxty, ensured an enormous rise in the popularity of Irish music.

Another thing which has contributed to the rise of Celtic music is the pub session. In the 1940s and 50s large numbers of Irish people came to London for work, mostly in the building trade. They congregated in certain bars, and a few became known for having Irish music. 

This was the beginning of a phenomenon which slowly but surely spread around the world. You can now find Irish pub sessions just about anywhere, and it has also inspired many people to explore their own heritages, so you have English sessions, Scottish sessions, Klezmer, Cape Breton, etc. One of the reasons why so many people are keen to learn a musical instrument now, I believe, is because they see people having a session in a pub, and they feel like they want to join in. For this reason, Celtic music is enjoying a rose period.

Celtic Music as a term may not mean much as an ethnic identifier, but as a catch-all label for certain genres of folk music it is a fact of life, and as such it more easily understood than explained. 

(by permission of Nigel Gatherer)

Trebleclef528
www.mandolinscotland.org

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## Mandophyte

trebleclef528 and Nigel Gatherer,

Many thanks for your post, that's excellent!

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## tango_grass

I like that Galicia is mentioned....but there is 2 other Spanish regions too, Asturias, and one other that slips my mind...

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## lucho

I agree with Nigel Gatherer post... the label celtic was created by music producers to label traditional music from Ireland and Scotland .... and later with time has included the so called 7 celtic nations... but indeed, these are traditional music styles using diatonic instruments that through time has gotten closer through  parallel development.... as smallpipes/border pipes, fiddles, and flutes in A/D in scott tradition  versus gaitas, pandeiros and requintas in C/F in galician folk.
For instance, before Milladouro, most traditional galician music used to be a rather old fashioned stock.... after the 80s and earlier 90s.... some instruments such as bodhran, and bouzouki started to be shared by some galego folk groups.... and now the sound of some dance music in 6/8 such as the muiñeira is getting closer in feeling to a scot/irish jig.... I do play in a trad. galician bagpipe band too and some old dances such as the danza del Osu are shared with asturians and the french bretons and we have had the opportunity to play it along ... so I guess there is some older background music lying underneath....

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## Nigel Gatherer

As far as music is concerned, the word "Celtic" is now a fact of life. It has become a catch-all, convenient way of describing a certain type of music. I do a lot of mandolin workshops and residentials around Britain, and it's common for there to be a number of genres being taught. A Baroque specialist or a Dixieland expert will be quite happy to be classed under "Classical" or"Jazz" and it's understandable for organisers to look for an umbrella term for what I do (Scottish mandolin). In the absence of such a suitable term, "Celtic" has filled the void, and it's working. I know it's innacurate as far as origins and history goes, but it's a description that most people seem to understand.

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## Jeff Hildreth

A "lost" wing of the Celtic Nation was the Boli tribe from South  Eastern Germany, Northern Austria and what is now the South Western portion of the Czech Republic.  The Boli  later became known as Bohemian. So may we now include "Bohemian" music under the umbrella of Celtic ?

Excellent essay Nigel.

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## Eddie Sheehy

I can see switching from a slip-jig to a rhapsody without missing a beat...

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## Bertram Henze

Freddie Mercury died too soon - so much integration work left undone.

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## Gerry Cassidy

> As far as music is concerned, the word "Celtic" is now a fact of life. It has become a catch-all, convenient way of describing a certain type of music. I do a lot of mandolin workshops and residentials around Britain, and it's common for there to be a number of genres being taught. A Baroque specialist or a Dixieland expert will be quite happy to be classed under "Classical" or"Jazz" and it's understandable for organisers to look for an umbrella term for what I do (Scottish mandolin). In the absence of such a suitable term, "Celtic" has filled the void, and it's working. I know it's innacurate as far as origins and history goes, but it's a description that most people seem to understand.


Nigel, thanks so much. It's nice to hear from someone very close to the source. 

I'm wondering, would Central-European Folk, 'Gypsy', Romanian Wedding, etc. be considered  examples of Celt music? The Celtic influence was rather vast over the centuries, I'm wondering if it would be correct to include these other genre's into the collection?

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## foldedpath

> Nigel, thanks so much. It's nice to hear from someone very close to the source. 
> 
> I'm wondering, would Central-European Folk, 'Gypsy', Romanian Wedding, etc. be considered  examples of Celt music? The Celtic influence was rather vast over the centuries, I'm wondering if it would be correct to include these other genre's into the collection?


Maybe in an ethnographic sense, but not musically, I think. I've been slowly learning a bit of music from those areas, and it gets into some very non-Celtic sounds (at least to my ears), like the use of Freygish scale and odd/complex time signatures. Irish, Scottish and related music may be melodically complex, especially in terms of ornamentation, but it's rhythmically very straightforward compared to many of the Eastern European or "Balkan" styles. It goes back to the dances, as usual. Where the dances are very different, the music will be different. The wacky time signatures in some of the Eastern European stuff is directly related to the dances, and not just the musicians trying to show off.  :Smile:  

I suppose if you step back far enough, there are more similarities than if you compare any of these regions to say, the traditional music of Africa, India, or China. But to the extent that it's useful at all to distinguish separate styles, I think Eastern European/Balkan music is very distinct from what's usually considered Celtic music. 

Just my $.02 opinion, and I haven't been exposed to this music for very long. I'd be interested to hear if there's more cross-pollination than what I've heard so far.

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## Paul Cowham

Interesting thread...

Not sure how relevant this is but I've heard that Irish music has links with moroccan music, apparently the scales are similar, the bohran came from Morocco (or was inspired by similar instruments in Morocco) and apparently Davy Graham "invented" DADGAD guitar tuning which is commonly used in Irish music when he was in Morocco listening to teh traditional oud players...

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## Eddie Sheehy

This should answer the question....or not!

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## wormdiet

Western music general has some important Arabic/middle eastrern influences.

Our citterns, 'zouks, mandolins, etc. all are very closely related to the Oud, the middle eastern Lute family. 

Popular music from the middle ages, particularly from Spain, has some clear similarities too.

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## mandocrucian

(pictured - original album cover, French release; 80's Rounder reisssue)

_"Celtic Music"_ as a description stems directly from Breton harpist Alan Stivell who if not actually copining the term, certainly popularized it with his 1972 album titled _Renaissance de la harpe celtique_ (or _Renaissance of the Celtic Harp_) which included trad. music from Brittany, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.  

NH

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## zookster

You're right, "Celtic" is the catch-all phrase that has come to define the traditional music we enjoy. The Irish and Scots still scratch their heads when you use this term on their home turf.   I only have a problem when the New Age artists use the term  just because they may employ a Celtic harp, whistle, or  other indigenous  instrumentation.  (I'd like to come up with a recording and name it "Haggis Twilight" )

  Is it is true that the actual Celts who settled the islands from the continent probably only had drums and wind instruments of some kind, and while you may think Chuculainn built the first Irish pub, the Irish music as we know it only dates to the end of the 17th or start of the 18th century.  


   I've been the host of an NPR radio show for the last 20 years, and it has been gratifying to see the explosion of interest in not only the music, but of the culture and history of the people the music represents.  First and foremost, it's great music, and that's what draws folks in.  I remember when people only vaguely knew the name "Robert Burns" as some dead Scotsman. Now listeners call requesting actual tunes or songs attributed to Burns!  Likewise  O'Carolan...........

  Many groups, like the House Band and Planxty,  has brought in eastern european sounds with good results, and it appears (at least musically) that there is a distant kinship.

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## Bertram Henze

I think it is a good thing that the name business, the country business, the ethnic group business and the instrument family business are all secondary to the core character of this music we talk about.

When I was a little boy in elementary school, I sang in a choir - simple songs fit for children. But there was one song in the repertoire, whose melody touched me as strangely odd, familiar and attractive at the same time. That was in post-war Germany, of course all the songs had German lyrics, nobody knew anything about Irish music and it took me more than 20 years to find out that that melody was really "Danny Boy". 

From that follows that my attachment to the music was genuine at the time (and I hope it still is), dependent on its character alone, no matter what it's called or who plays it on which instrument.

Bertram

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## man dough nollij

Somehow "Old Helmut Boy" just doesn't have quite the same ring to it... :Smile:

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## mrmando

> This should answer the question....or not!


Nice ... is Derek playing a Harmony electric?

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## Eddie Sheehy

I can't make out the type of mando.  At least he's not playing his bowlback...

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## David Casal

in my modest opinion "celtic" was a name needed to englobe some kind of atlantic way of live, not vikings not mediterraneans.
that term (keltoi) was used by the romans to talk about the atlantics lands of europe.

in those days communications were by sea but faster and usual than land communications.
the "same" climatic conditions made the "same" kind of living	
Therefore the biggest influence in the beginning were the territories that were more or less close to the  same sea.
in this case galicians or asturians spend less time arriving to the britanny or ireland than to the center-south of spain. So the people that  were conected get influenced by the others.
With the construction, by the romans (well, they desing, slaves built) the great Vias (stone roads) all around their empire, the way of comunication change, Roma was one of the centers of the world and almost everything was connected. They made a stone-internet :Smile: 
i beg your pardon, again, for my english.  i´m trying to comunicate but i´ll do an effort to be clearer next time

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## David Casal

> I like that Galicia is mentioned....but there is 2 other Spanish regions too, Asturias, and one other that slips my mind...


maybe you mean Cantabria, or Basque Country?

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## whistler

> maybe you mean Cantabria, or Basque Country?


Not the Basque country.  Maybe Asturias.

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## Bertram Henze

> in my modest opinion "celtic" was a name needed to englobe some kind of atlantic way of live, not vikings not mediterraneans.
> that term (keltoi) was used by the romans to talk about the atlantics lands of europe.
> 
> in those days communications were by sea but faster and usual than land communications.
> the "same" climatic conditions made the "same" kind of living	
> Therefore the biggest influence in the beginning were the territories that were more or less close to the  same sea.
> in this case galicians or asturians spend less time arriving to the britanny or ireland than to the center-south of spain. So the people that  were conected get influenced by the others.


I like that explanation of Celtic music really being "Atlantic music" - explains that longing gaze to the horizon and the moist salty wind it seems to express.  :Smile: 

Bertram

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## Paul Kotapish

As much as I dislike using the term "Celtic" to describe the tradition-based music that most of my bands play, I find that it helps me cut to the chase when I try to explain what we do to casual listeners. If I say "traditional Irish," the usual point of reference is the Clancy Brothers. Not that there's anything wrong with the Clancy Brothers, of course, and there is a lot of overlap with what we do, but if I say "Celtic," they tend to get the association with jigs and reels and pipes and fiddles a lot more easily. 

And like so many of us mongrel musicians, my repertoire includes music from Ireland, Scotland, France, Quebec, Cape Breton, New England, Appalachia, and points south--in varying proportions--and that gets to be a mouthful to explain. "Celtic" and "old-time" seem to convey the idea more quickly, notwithstanding the anthropological, linguistic, and cultural inaccuracies.

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## Bren

I like David's idea of the sea connection.
It's explored in detail in Alastair Moffat's book The Sea Kingdoms
To put it in perspective from our modern view of travel and communication, Moffat points out that until around 150 years ago, the quickest way from New York to San Francisco was around Cape Horn.
Places like Stornoway that we now think of as remote and outside the mainstream, were central to sea routes around Gaelic Scotland.

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## Bertram Henze

Bren, thanks for pointing out that book - I ordered it right away. If Stornoway on Lewis was central - that reminds me that even St. Kilda had a regular population. When the Vital Spark was still just a dream... Says a lot.

bertram

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## David Casal

http://breizhpartitions.free.fr/es/p...ras_violin.php

this is a place for those who knows how to read partitures (I dont)

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## Mike Crocker

It has become a very elastic term. There is a local "celtic roots" festival which celebrates music from a variety of "nations" and I'm happy enough to accept the term, as long as the music is of quality, even if the roots are very far removed. All music is derivative, and most refuses to be static.

Mike

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