# General Mandolin Topics > General Mandolin Discussions >  Double Stop Fiddle Shop Lost to Fire

## GDAE

Byron Berline's Double Stop Fiddle shop is burning to the ground as I write this.   An Oklahoma landmark in the historic town of Guthrie, it would have had Webers, Collings, Gibsons (in mandolins, not to mention fiddles and other musical instruments) on the walls.  A great loss to the music community, to Guthrie, and to Byron.

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Mark Seale, 

Paul Statman

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## William Smith

OH man that sucks BAD!

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## sgarrity

My parents live in Guthrie and just texted me the news. So incredibly sad.  Byron gave me my first mandolin lesson there. Watched countless shows upstairs. The amount of bluegrass history lost is hard to think about. Thinking of Byron and his family. Hopefully everyone is safe.

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Bernie Daniel, 

GreenMTBoy, 

Jim Roberts, 

Mark Seale, 

Paul Statman, 

seankeegan

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## Bob Buckingham

This is so sad!  no other words.

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## Caleb

Unbelievably sad.  I follow him on Instagram and it looks like such a neat place.

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## Eric Hanson

So sad. all that is lost is just terrible.

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## goose 2

This is such sad news.  I watched some great shows by amazing musicians there.  It was there that I played my first Loar which Byron so graciously allowed me to play.

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## John Soper

Sad, Sad news indeed.  I never visited his shop, but photos and film online looked like it was one of those special places.  And Byron is a national treasure.

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Phil Goodson

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## BradKlein

Terrible news. Beyond the possibilities of personal injury and financial harm, there is the very real chance that numbers of historically important instruments may have been lost. So sorry for Byron, who I had the pleasure of meeting while doing photography for Andy Statman.

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DavidKOS, 

SternART

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## Jim Roberts

Here’s a link to the newscast:

http://www.news9.com/story/40014748/...n-guthrie-fire

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Charles E., 

JAK

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## Steve Sorensen

Heart breaking.
Steve

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## Mandolin Cafe

Uninsured is what we were told by a close friend.

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## Timbofood

Oh no, how sad for the entire mandolin community!

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## Fretbear

> Uninsured is what we were told by a close friend.


I seem to remember Byron being a Loar owner;
Wonder if the fire got it.

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## MikeEdgerton

> Uninsured is what we were told by a close friend.


That's a shame.

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## JAK

Just read and got info from "Bluegrass Today" that one person was in the shop at the time of the fire, he grabbed Bryon's playing fiddle and mandolin, "and that's it." I've read Byron had 200-300 fiddles, in addition to mandolins and guitars. It's hard to believe he wouldn't have had musical instrument insurance.

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brunello97

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## brunello97

> ....It's hard to believe he wouldn't have had musical instrument insurance.


Agreed.  Something very strange--or tragic--about this....

Mick

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## dhergert

I'm sure the store itself had some form of insurance, but insuring every instrument in the house is a pretty technically and financially daunting task, especially for a brick-and-mortar store in today's retail environment.

I often wonder how many casual musicians (like myself) who have more than 10 instruments in the house have each of them insured for their value...

My youngest son used to refer to our instruments as "future firewood".  While a joke, it sort of helps put things into perspective.  The most valuable items at Double Stop *were* saved -- those being the people who played and worked on the instruments.

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Joe DiLorenzo

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## Northwest Steve

Sad news indeed. A quick look at his web site looks like he had some terrific instruments.

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## Mark Seale

This is truly a major loss in the music world.  The place was a treasure trove of instruments and memories.  I'm incredibly saddened to hear this news, and I cannot imagine the impact to Byron and his family.

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## Mark Seale

> Uninsured is what we were told by a close friend.


That leaves me speechless.  I know some who don't insure because "once an instrument is lost, its lost and money won't replace it," but he had his own and others' instruments in care (consignments, etc.)  I hope that isn't the case.

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## Nathan Sanders

Just saw video on FB. The Loar survived.

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SternART

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## Mandolin Cafe

Hang on to your hats for this bit of news. What I'm told is Byron and his crew are going to post and confirm this on the web as well, where I don't know but I'd guess on Facebook:

Byron's Loar was in a safe on the second floor of the building. By the time the fire was out the safe was in the basement with most of the rest of the building, under several feet of water totally submerged. They talked the fire department into pumping the basement dry from the water used to put out the fire. The safe was opened, everything in the safe was totally wet and ruined, but the Loar was in a _--removed, but does it really matter? No one reads anyway--_, always said to be waterproof. They opened the case, the mandolin was dry and still in tune.

That's the story as it was told to me just on the phone with Jim Triggs a few minutes. Jim is a close friend of Byron's, said Byron was crying when he pulled it out of the case and saw it was undamaged. This information literally came to me just now in this fashion. I'd say that's pretty damn good news as part of an otherwise tragic story.

EDIT: the video, click the image to start:

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Bob Bass, 

Bob Clark, 

bobrem, 

BradKlein, 

dang, 

darylcrisp, 

Dave Fultz, 

David Lewis, 

Drew Egerton, 

EdHanrahan, 

fatt-dad, 

Glassweb, 

jd.panko, 

Joe DiLorenzo, 

Northwest Steve, 

Phil Goodson, 

Philippe Bony, 

pops1, 

sblock, 

seankeegan, 

Spencer, 

SternART, 

tree, 

William Smith

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## Charles E.

That....is....amazing!?   :Disbelief:   :Smile: 

Wow.

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## seankeegan

Wow.

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## ABrown

I guess I’m buying a Calton

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## Mandolin Cafe

Hang, you HAVE to watch this. Click the image to start video. Fast forward to 3:00 mark if you just can't stand it. I'd say if Calton Cases were a public stock the price would be rising at the moment.

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almeriastrings, 

brunello97, 

Charles E., 

darylcrisp, 

Randi Gormley, 

SternART, 

Steve-o, 

William Smith

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## Aehle

Glad to see his Loar survived. Calton cases are fine cases but it looks like a Leaf Case to me.

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## Loudloar

Sure looks like a Mark Leaf case to me.

Steve

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almeriastrings

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## Mandolin Cafe

Think Mark Leaf is right. I was told Calton from 80s over phone.

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## sgarrity

To heck wth the case, tell me about that safe!  So happy it survived. That’s my favorite Loar that I’ve played!

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brunello97

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## William Smith

> To heck wth the case, tell me about that safe!  So happy it survived. That’s my favorite Loar that I’ve played!


 Yes I need a safe myself for my old F-5's! What Loar is his? Date? So happy it survived!

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## Gary Leonard

Where those bows that he took out along with that mandolin case? In the long thin boxes? Wonder what was in those.

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## brunello97

Great news about the Loar.  

That rack of toasted fiddles in the background is devastating to see.  Like it came out of a forno or kiln.  

Any ideas what caused the fire?  

While we're all feeling good about this recovery, there's something unsettling about this whole story.  A lot of lessons to be (re) learned, here. 

i don't mean to be a grump but....

Mick

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## Northwest Steve

A little divine intervention? Maybe he can get an endorsement deal from which ever case mfg.

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## wreded

Goodness!  I had the pleasure of meeting Byron at his store a few years ago.  He's sittin' behind the counter swattin' flies and I'm just in total awe!  Wonderful store, full of wonderful instruments and, I'm sure, stories to go along with them.
Such a loss.

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## EvanElk

Holy cow...

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## Charles E.

> Great news about the Loar.  
> 
> That rack of toasted fiddles in the background is devastating to see.  Like it came out of a forno or kiln.  
> 
> Any ideas what caused the fire?  
> 
> While we're all feeling good about this recovery, there's something unsettling about this whole story.  A lot of lessons to be (re) learned, here. 
> 
> i don't mean to be a grump but....
> ...


According to the news report in post #10, the fire started next door on the back porch in the alley.  Many years ago in Raleigh NC, one of our favorite restaurants was heavily fire damaged by a worker flinging a cigarette butt into a trash can, on the back porch, in the alley, while on break.
I hope that is not the case here.

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## Fretbear

That case not only kept it initially unburnt, and secondly dry, but then also protected it inside that safe during it's violent fall into the basement.

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## Julia LaBella

Reminds me of Feb. 25, 1986 when Bill Monroe got his Loar back from Gibson after it had been brutally destroyed by some vandal & was brought back to life! Byron Berline, I was praying so hard for a miracle that you too, would find your Loar saved! I was visualizing a safe in prayer. Hallelujah! 🎶♥️🙏🏻 tears of joy again, this time for Byron.

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Bernie Daniel

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## Doc Ivory

Wow!

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## Paul Statman

What a relief, and thanks for the update. That case, though.. doesn't look very Calton-ey. More Mark Leaf-ey to my eye..
Maybe I just never saw one that looked like that. I stand to be corrected.

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## Bogle

Heavy as they get, but what protection! I'm definitely hanging on to my Mark Leaf dread case!

I'm so sad for Byron's losses in the fire, but certainly happy for his Loar being unharmed. 

Oh.....and welcome to Julia.

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Bernie Daniel

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## William Smith

On You tube there was a better Video, of two big ole safes being opened, and close ups of the Loar, there is a bit of water damage as you can see the cloudin on the Loar and he said the label was wet, but that'll all dry! I can't even imagine! So happy the F-5 was saved!

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Bernie Daniel, 

Paul Statman

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## Hendrik Ahrend

I feel so sorry for Byron, and I'm glad nobody got hurt. He is such a fine fellow and wonderful fiddle player. I'm proud to have toured, played and shared the room with him for 4 weeks in 1994 in Europe. John Hickman was on banjo; also a really fine fellow and player. Imagine standing next to them and being part of the (almost) original Sally Goodin and Gold Rush in 28 concerts during 27 days - fond memories for sure. At that time, he was about to move from LA to Guthrie to open his fiddle shop and, of course, was all excited about it. Byron and I not only shared a common interest in music, but also in instruments, especially fiddles and mandolins; we went fiddle hunting in Italy, a wonderful adventure. Back then, when Byron arrived in Europe, he and his family just experienced an earth quake in LA, which, if I remember correctly, didn't destroy his house, but was strong enough to make the cups and saucers fly out of the cupboard.
I'm glad nothing happened to his Loar now. (BTW it's #73007 ) Back then, I believe Byron also owned a fine H5 and a pre war D28. I wonder what became of those. I'm still thankful to Byron for how he treated me, what I learned from him and for selling me two fine mandolins (a '93 F5 and a '23 F4) in later years. 

Hendrik

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almeriastrings, 

Bernie Daniel, 

darylcrisp, 

f5joe, 

JAK, 

Northwest Steve, 

Paul Statman, 

William Smith

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## William Smith

Its a miracle that the Loar was saved! On the youtube video, it looked like a lot of other guitar/cases were pulled out of another big ole safe, none was opened like the Loar though. I emailed Byron and mentioned that even damaged instruments have an appeal to some and he should let us all know on the café if anything can be saved and he should put them up here on this great site and try and get something out of them? I'd be interested in something perhaps to help him out in his time of need? I imagine that some would buy to help him out? Just a thought?

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Bernie Daniel, 

Bluejay, 

Hendrik Ahrend

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## Jan Skovajsa

The case doesn't seem to be the Calton: neither the new one made in the US nor the old Canadian or the one that was used to make in the UK.

As I long term user of Calton cases I have to say that they are not water resistant nor water proof. The water gets in around the hinges if the case is exposed to the heavy rain in a bad angle or even if you wash it closed in the shower or if you hose it down. I have long experience with the old UK cases made by Keith, the Canadian Caltons as well to the new ones made in the US.   





> Hang on to your hats for this bit of news. What I'm told is Byron and his crew are going to post and confirm this on the web as well, where I don't know but I'd guess on Facebook:
> 
> Byron's Loar was in a safe on the second floor of the building. By the time the fire was out the safe was in the basement with most of the rest of the building, under several feet of water totally submerged. They talked the fire department into pumping the basement dry from the water used to put out the fire. The safe was opened, everything in the safe was totally wet and ruined, but the Loar was in a Calton case, always said to be waterproof. They opened the case, the mandolin was dry and still in tune.
> 
> That's the story as it was told to me just on the phone with Jim Triggs a few minutes. Jim is a close friend of Byron's, said Byron was crying when he pulled it out of the case and saw it was undamaged. This information literally came to me just now in this fashion. I'd say that's pretty damn good news as part of an otherwise tragic story.
> 
> EDIT: the video, click the image to start:

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Paul Statman

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## Hendrik Ahrend

> The case doesn't seem to be the Calton: neither the new one made in the US nor the old Canadian or the one that was used to make in the UK.
> 
> As I long term user of Calton cases I have to say that they are not water resistant nor water proof. The water gets in around the hinges if the case is exposed to the heavy rain in a bad angle or even if you wash it closed in the shower or if you hose it down. I have long experience with the old UK cases made by Keith, the Canadian Caltons as well to the new ones made in the US.



Since it's mentioned in post #43, what Byron has looks like a Mark Leaf case, no?.

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## AlanN

> Since it's mentioned in post #43, what Byron has looks like a Mark Leaf case, no?.


Yes, has been fairly confirmed. And I did not know the Leaf is watertight like that.

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Paul Statman

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## Bob Buckingham

There just may be a run on Calton cases now.

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## mtucker

Awesome! The gods (and the Fire Dept.) were obviously smiling on Mr. Berline and his Loar as steel safes are far from fireproof, they only delay fire and heat damage for a short period of time, like 1,300 degrees for 20-30 minutes. Local fire had to have acted very quickly (likely unknowingly) in getting that fire out in order to save his beast.

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Paul Statman

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## Paul Statman

> Since it's mentioned in post #43, what Byron has looks like a Mark Leaf case, no?.


I believe that was post #42  :Popcorn:

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Hendrik Ahrend

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## sunburst

For those unfamiliar with Leaf cases, they are made of rigid foam (think insulation) covered by a fiberglass (think fire resistant) skin. They are a lot like very tough coolers with a nearly waterproof gasket (think refrigerator) on the lid.
We can chalk the survival of the Loar up to good fortune, but it seems to me that it was a result of proper planning as much as anything - in a safe, in a Leaf case.
I still have two Leaf cases that I use for storing and transporting some of my more valuable instruments, and I have a safe in my shop, and that is where customer's valuable instruments (think Loar) reside while I am not working on them.

I don't know Byron Berline personally, but I hope he, his family and his business associates come through this as well as possible.

I wonder if there is some way those of us who are accomplished at instrument repair could offer to help...

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Northwest Steve, 

Paul Statman, 

Timbofood

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## Paul Statman

> There just may be a run on Calton cases now.


?  :Confused:

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AlanN, 

Bernie Daniel

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## William Smith

Yes its a real blessing the Loar survived! If you watch the youtube video you can see that it "The 23 Loar F-5" did get some water damage, cloudy on the back and the treble side and Byron said the label was wet but still a great save! It was just a few years ago that a nice 25 Fern F-5 got the full ravages of a house fire! I know Byron had some old, old violins that weren't so lucky! Its such a shame but should be an eye opener for us Loar owners or any high quality instrument owner! I'd be devastated if something like a fire took my Loar or Fern or even my favorite mandolin my old beat up 30's F-7 conversion! These things can't be replaced, sure you could get another for some serious $ but its still not the same as all are different! Lucky some would say for him but still the devastation you could see on his face before he opened the Loar case after seeing the uncased violins in the safe, I think he thought it was toasted? His reaction was priceless when he opened the case, I'm thrilled another vintage F-5 was saved! If it would've been in water for much longer it would be completely apart! I've seen this years ago with a Loar that was in a flood of some sort that Charles Johnson had years ago for sale, but now its been restored to its former glory, well not original its still saved!

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## PH-Mando

I nearly cried when the case was opened and the mandolin emerged in one piece with little damage.  I hope he rebuilds soon.  Been to the shows numerous times and really enjoyed the concerts.

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## Buck

A fire resistant gun safe is not all that expensive, but it does take up a lot of room and doesn't hold too many (large) instruments.  Things can get hot in there, and suffer some moisture damage.  However, it's a lot better protection than no protection.  You could see many intact fiddles in the safe as well.  I'm sure they all suffered at least a little, but they're not ashes.  My most expensive instruments aren't Loars, but still, old Martins are pricy enough.  I've thought of buying a second safe for that reason.  Maybe I'll think a little harder about that now....

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William Smith

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## William Smith

I agree I need a safe after all this eye opening visualizations! I'd hate to see my Loar and Fern and well other expensive rare instruments gone! I'd be lost indeed as I worked real hard for what I have. Pure devastation, I'd skip sad and go straight to angry for my own stupidity on not doing my part to shift these to the next generation! Were all just present keepers of these things to pass on through the ages! If one thinks about it can you really imagine all the golden era violins that didn't stand the test of time with, fire, war, displacement, theft, plain destruction because of jealousy? This can be said also with mandolins and guitars from our pre WWII era!

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## Jeff Mando

Not much to say except what a terrible loss!

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## JAK

In 2017 the wildfires destroyed much of Santa Rosa, California. I have a friend who had a really good 6' tall safe in his house. The fire destroyed the house, and the safe MELTED, as well as everything inside. And nothing is really 100% safe (pardon the pun).

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## Jeff Mando

On a related note, about 40 years ago when I became a photographer (back in the day of film and darkrooms!  :Cool: ) I did a good amount of research to find a safe that would protect my negatives -- but unfortunately, as mentioned above, every safe only delays the effects of fire and heat, giving extra time, but not preventing damage totally if the fire continues too long.  Of course, still a good idea for theft protection, etc.......

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## Michael Manley

Hi folks, I believe most of us are mandolin players and reference Loyd Loar, but that is one special mandolin, but what about the two hundred fiddles?  True Tragedy!

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## f5loar

Don't keep saying it was a Calton.  It was in an older small style Mark Leaf fiberglass coated case made by Mark Leaf.  The seal is a semi-water tight seal and yes it did suffer some lower point separation, water hazing on finish in lower area and the label was wet.  The amazing thing is it was still in tune and he picked a tune on it.  The sad part is Byron, a most beloved master fiddler in bluegrass (Monroe/Country Gazette/Berline/Cary/Hickman/Dillard and Clark to name a few, did lose, I estimate, a million dollars or more in instruments and his music store business.  There are several ways to donate to help him get back to work doing what he loves to do, teaching the bluegrass instruments, repairing instruments and selling vintage instruments. I will donate some money for his loss and you should too.  Berline has given me a lifetime of great bluegrass music.  Here are the current Byron Berline funding links...

1. https://www.gofundme.com/byron-berli...ddle-shop-fire

2. Checks to InterBank, 224 East Oklahoma Ave., Guthrie, OK 73044

3. https://www.facebook.com/donate/4298...1157280356554/

Double Stop Fiddle Shop - Authorized Post-Fire Support Page: https://www.facebook.com/doublestopsupport
Post any other offers here.

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almeriastrings, 

bobby bill, 

BradKlein, 

Mark Seale, 

William Smith

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## Jim Garber

Here's another video. The Loar was in a big safe and some of the violins look like they took the heat badly. He takes out the Loar and opens the case around 3:30.

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Jeff Mando, 

pops1, 

Spencer

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## slimt

Lucky person.  That says alot of the quality case as well.

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## Jim Garber

> Lucky person.  That says alot of the quality case as well.


Mark Leaf (I believe). No longer made and weigh a lot but very protective (obviously).

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## Caleb

That mandolin will have one amazing story attached to it from now on.

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## f5joe

> Mark Leaf (I believe). No longer made and weigh a lot but very protective (obviously).


My Leaf mando case weighs very close to my Loar case.  The Leaf is no burden to carry.

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Bernie Daniel

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## AlanN

> My Leaf mando case weighs very close to my Loar case.  The Leaf is no burden to carry.


Yep. Not heavy, at all.

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Bernie Daniel, 

f5joe

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## Bob Clark

It would be really cool for someone from Fretboard Journal to wait a brief period for Mr. Berline to settle a bit, and then interview him about this experience and especially this mandolin, to write it up for publication.  I am sure it would make very interesting reading, and would document this historical event.  I am sure Fretboard Journal would take just the right approach, being sensitive to Mr. Berline while reporting on this instrument. This really is an important moment in the life of a historic instrument.  And I am sure Mr. Berline has more than one amazing story to tell.

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Caleb, 

f5joe, 

Hendrik Ahrend, 

wildpikr, 

William Smith

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## William Smith

Water is the most destructive force in nature more so than fire isn't it? No case is really safe from water getting in, some are just better at slowing the process, water can get into anything. I'm sorry for his loss with everything but the 23 Loar will be saved, and hopefully some of the older violins? I know he had some from the 1700's right? It looked like some bows were saved if that was them in the smaller cases before he pulled out the Loar case? Some of those old bows are worth as much as a Loar correct?

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## wildpikr

> It would be really cool for someone from Fretboard Journal to wait a brief period for Mr. Berline to settle a bit, and then interview him about this experience and especially this mandolin, to write it up for publication.  I am sure it would make very interesting reading, and would document this historical event.  I am sure Fretboard Journal would take just the right approach, being sensitive to Mr. Berline while reporting on this instrument. This really is an important moment in the life of a historic instrument.  And I am sure Mr. Berline has more than one amazing story to tell.


Hmmmm...this goes a few steps past baking it in the oven!  :Disbelief:  Didn't Frank Wakefield do that?  He might have some interesting assessments about changes in the tone when he finally sits down to evaluate things...hope he and his shop come back better than before!

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## Buck

> ...The sad part is Byron, a most beloved master fiddler in bluegrass (Monroe/Country Gazette/Berline/Cary/Hickman/Dillard and Clark to name a few, did lose, I estimate, a million dollars or more in instruments and his music store business....


I'm guessing you're correct, and as you imply, probably on the light end of the estimated loss.  No one who hasn't run a business can fully appreciate the potential for loss, which is more than just what was damaged.  I don't know whether he owned the building or not.  If he didn't, he may still be obligated to make rent payments depending on the terms of the lease.  If he did, the insurance coverage even to the building might be very limited.  The damage to anything he owned outright is one thing, but some of the stock was new it may have been on a line of credit.  There's the loss of income between now and when the store opens again.  Employees who can't be paid now may have to find other jobs, making them unavailable in the future.  And the list goes on. 

All that said, it was good to see him smiling in those videos.  If he can smile right now, he can probably keep perspective and overcome.  Thanks so much for the donation links.

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## Jeff Mando

Exactly, Byron's smile says a lot to me.  Very hopeful.  A lot of people wouldn't be able to smile, I'm thinking.

Good luck getting back to "normal," Byron.

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## David Lewis

Wonderful clips showing the retrieval. Great news re the Loar and like everyone else, grateful no-one was hurt.

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