# Music by Genre > Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants >  Singing...with or without an accent?

## JeffW

Hello all,

This is probably a really silly question, but it's one I have to ask...

When I sing a song where the original artist has a southern accent, I tend to mimmick the accent of the original artist even though I don't have one personally.  I don't consciously do it.  I think I just focus on keeping my pitch correct and matching the melody, and before I know it, I'm singing with a twang.

So I have to know...

Does anyone else sing with a fake accent?   :Grin: 

As an audience member, would you find a vocalist singing with a non-natural accent annoying or perfectly acceptable?

Thanks for humoring me with your thoughts.

Jeff

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## bobby bill

With apologies - annoying.  Some fake accents are more annoying than others.  Seeing/hearing a white guy sing reggae with a fake Jamaican accent is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

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## MikeEdgerton

There are many people that simply slide into the local accent when they move to or visit an area, the same thing happens with songs. It's hard to overcome.

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## Bob Wiegers

I recently got Kasey Chamber's "Rattlin' Bones" CD...good stuff. sounds rather southern/folksy. but they're Australian! the funny part is hearing them count off a song with their Aussie accent, and the next beat it's gone.

I will confess to having more of an accent in song than in person. that said, I also have more of an accent when talking to my mechanic (for example) who has a thicker accent.

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## farmerjones

my brain is like moosh. If i'm speaking to anybody with an accent it rubs off easily. It's embarassing. I hope the person to whom i'm speaking doesn't think i'm mocking them. It's awful. When i sing i try to establish my own voice. I just remember some ol' Bluegrasser saying, "If i wanted to hear Lester, i'd play the CD." I do try to soften my midwestern accent a bit.

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## JeffW

> With apologies - annoying.  Some fake accents are more annoying than others.  Seeing/hearing a white guy sing reggae with a fake Jamaican accent is like nails on a chalkboard to me.


No apologies necessary -- I appreciate your opinion!

(Note to self...take Bob Marley songs off set list)   :Smile: 

Seriously, though -- I have NEVER sang in public.  Mostly because I have always been very critical of my voice.  But I also never practiced singing and playing an instrument at the same time (due to the reason above).

Now I feel like I am finally ready to develop my voice as another instrument, but when singing along with a track, I notice that I tend to mimmick whatever I'm singing along with.

It's not too early for me to change!   :Smile: 

Jeff

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## Jim MacDaniel

W _spoke_ with a fake accent, so I don't see why you can't _sing_ with one.  :Wink:

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## Landgrass

I grew up in St. Louis with a minimal accent. After college, I moved to 
"Foat Wuth" Texas for 12 years. Never really noticed a change, but when I moved to California later, everyone asked where I was from. When I said St. Louis they all thought I was from the South. I guess I had picked up the local accent and didn't even know it. I later moved to Atlanta for 6 years and felt right at home. Same thing happened to my cousin who lived in England for many years. When I saw him years later he almost had an English accent. Hard not to assimilate when everyone around you talks differently. When I sing I tend to have a bit more of that twang then when I was back in Missouri. 

P.S. I still can't sing any Willie Nelson without slipping into his distinct vocal style.

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## mandopete

Funny you should ask.  I recall years ago reading about the band "Green Day" and how their singer (Billy Joe) would sing in a fake British accent.  I think the reason was they were really trying to imitate and honor the sound of the classic 70's punk bands from England.

Which brings me to bluegrass (oddly enough).  There are times when I really want to hear (and sing) with a southern accent.  It just sounds so "right" and I just can't help it.  I also noticed that some things are actually a little easier to sing with the accent and I have just decided that's what I'm going to do.  My biggest problem is talking (like announcing songs and such) with the accent.  It's a bit like getting into character.  I don't do it to be disrespectful at all, it just sorta comes out that way.

I love the the word "y'all", especially the possesive, yall's...

_"Is that yall's  mandolin over there?" _

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## Phillip Tigue

But it sounds funny to us!  Especially on TV shows where someone's trying to sound Southern...HILARIOUS!

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## Tom C

Accents? I'm from New Yawk so I don't sing  :Smile:

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## John Flynn

Two apropos digressions:

I am reminded of the discussion in Tom Wolfe's book "The Right Stuff" about how after Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier and was for a while the biggest celebrity in the country, every pilot in the country suddenly developed a southern accent. It became routine for airline pilots to give their spiel to the passengers over the PA in a southern drawl, no matter where they were from.

I am also reminded of my Navy days visiting the Philippines and going to the city of Olongapo, or "Po City" as the sailors called it. Nearly every bar on the strip had a line-up of Philippine impersonators of American singers: Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton, you name it. They all sang in absolutely perfect English, not a trace of an accent. But if you talked to them off-stage, many could not speak English at all and if they did, it was with a very thick accent and a very limited vocabulary.

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## Steve Ostrander

One of the reasons I don't go for country music is accents. I realize a lot of the artists are from from the south, but the Beatles were from England and they sang normal...sort of...

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## Jim MacDaniel

> ...I am also reminded of my Navy days visiting the Philippines and going to the city of Olongapo, or "Po City" as the sailors called it. Nearly every bar on the strip had a line-up of Philippine impersonators of American singers: Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton, you name it. They all sang in absolutely perfect English, not a trace of an accent. But if you talked to them off-stage, many could not speak English at all and if they did, it was with a very thick accent and a very limited vocabulary.


Wow John -- I haven't thought about my visits to the Philippines in a long time, but your post brought back many memories. The bars were all interesting, as was the entertainment -- particulary to this  then-country boy fresh out of Indiana -- but I also enjoyed the hospitaily of the locals once you got away from the strip, as well as the street food available up and down the strip: especially the lumpia, fertilized "eggs with legs", and "chicken" on a stick -- which I and my friends refered to as "rhesus pieces" (say it out loud  :Wink:  ).

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## mandolooter

whats ya'll talk'n bout? I taint gots no accent! :Grin:

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## Ted Eschliman

All I can think of is Elmer Fudd sings Bruce Springsteen:
<slow, low guitar riff intro>
_"I'm dwiving in my cahhhhh, tune on duh way-dio."_

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## mandozilla

I sing straight up BG and I try *NOT* to sing with an accent. BUT, I do tend to pronounce certain vowels southern style. For instance, there is no 'I' in bluegrass, and if there is it is pronounced 'AH'.  :Laughing:  Standard English doesn't fit very well in BG...it sounds like folk music...can you say Kingston Trio...WHO?  :Confused: 

My dad was one of those Great Depression guys who came out here during that time. He spoke with an accent and I grew up pronouncing many words with a southern accent like caint = can't, aint = Aunt or is not, purtnear = almost, dawg = dog, and so on. Southern sounds normal to me but not to many Californians.  :Grin: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## mandopete

> For instance, there is no 'I' in bluegrass, and if there is it is pronounced 'AH'. 
> 
> ...pronouncing many words with a southern accent like caint = can't


Yes, no "I" in bluegrass  :Wink: 

Now as for the word "can't", I find that's a word that may be hard to sing, but as many 'grassers have found "caint" is a lot easier to vocalize (IMHO).

I'm also reminded of that scene in Amadeus where the the king asks Mozart to write an opera in German.  The response was something like "_German is too bruta for sing_" (think Italian accent here).

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## Mike Bunting

I love accents. I met a lady last year who lived in Florida, grew up in Georgia and was born and spent her younger years in New Orleans. I really didn't hear much accent at all, and I'm from western Canada!, until she said N'Awlins. Maybe she had picked up a little of the Canadian accent from the snowbirds living in Florida. I realized that when I go to Owensboro or Austin, I'm the one with the accent.

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## Tom C

I like singers who sing in their own voice and don't try to sound like the person who wrote it. For example I love Dylan tunes but hate hearing people try to sing them like him.

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## Red Henry

The band with my favorite singing accent was the Bluegrass 45. Anybody remember them?

Red

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## Phillip Tigue

> the band with my favorite singing accent was the bluegrass 45. Anybody remember them?
> 
> Red


 :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing: 

gold!

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## Gary Hedrick

When I lived in Fresno, CA and played at the Kings River Bluegrass jams, folks would comment that I sounded like "real" bluegrass...that KY twang....yet being from Indiana folks from the KY/TN/NC heartland of bluegrass would die to even think that I had that "twang".....it's all of matter of perspective......

Heck sing the way it speaks to you and forget the rest of it.....

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## man dough nollij

You want to grow up to paint houses like me, a trailer in my yard till you're 23 
You want to be old after 42 years, keep dropping the hammer and grinding the gears 

Well, I used to go out in a Mustang, a 302 Mach One in green. 
Me and your Mama made you in the back and I sold it to buy her a ring. 
And I learned not to say much of nothing and I figured you already know 
but in case you dont or maybe forgot, Ill lay it out real nice and slow 

Dont call what your wearing an outfit. Dont ever say your car is broke. 
Dont worry about losing your accent, a Southern Man tells better jokes. 
Have fun but stay clear of the needle. Call home on your sisters birthday. 
Dont tell them youre bigger than Jesus, dont give it away. 

Six months in a St. Florian foundry, they call it Industrial Park. 
Then hospital maintenance and Tech School just to memorize Frigidaire parts. 
But I got to missing your Mama and I got to missing you too. 
So I went back to painting for my old man and I guess thats what Ill always do 

So dont try to change who you are boy, and dont try to be who you aint. 
And dont let me catch you in Kendale with a bucket of wealthy-mans paint. 

Dont call what your wearing an outfit. Dont ever say your car is broke. 
*Dont sing with a fake British accent.* Dont act like your familys a joke. 
Have fun, but stay clear of the needle, call home on your sisters birthday. 
Dont tell them youre bigger than Jesus, Dont give it away. 

Dont give it away

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## mandozilla

> Now as for the word "can't", I find that's a word that may be hard to sing, but as many 'grassers have found "caint" is a lot easier to vocalize (IMHO).


Mandopete you're absolutely right.  :Disbelief:  It seems too me that many BG numbers were written with the southern pronunciation  :Confused:  (Duh, southern songwriters of BG songs?) of many words in mind (unconsciously of course). And that to pronounce them in Standard English, New England, Boston, New York accents or what have you is quite difficult, for example; the 'Ah' sound for 'I' in many cases...Am I babbling too much?  :Laughing: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## kyblue

> would you find a vocalist singing with a non-natural accent annoying


If it's obviously not natural (and often it is obvious), then OH YES.

(But for some of us we're actually slipping back into something we've tried to put behind us, and it may come out natural!)

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## mandopete

> ...Am I babbling too much?


Ya'll caint babble too much on this here cafe!

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## jim simpson

I have a gal in my office that kinda hates bluegrass but came out to hear one of the bands I play in. She said my singing sounds different from my speaking voice. I try to sing natural so I was a little puzzled as I don't want to affect an accent that I don't have. 

I heard that Madonna would get to keep her English accent as part of the terms of her divorce!

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## mandopete

> I heard that Madonna would get to keep her English accent as part of the terms of her divorce!


English accent, is that what they call that?

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## man dough nollij

> I heard that Madonna would get to keep her English accent as part of the terms of her divorce!


For some reason that American-with-a-fake-affected-British-accent thing is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me! 

Mando content: Madonna would probably say the same thing of my playing...

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## Patrick Gunning

I don't seem to adopt a southern accent when I sing bluegrass, but when I sing anything by someone with an English accent (like Seth Lakeman) I almost can't help but pronounce the words with the accent.  Something about how the phrasing works.

People tend to tell me, if I'm singing something that I haven't worked on much, that it sounds like I'm more consciously mimicking the original artist's tone and pronunciation.  I think part of it is just living with the song for a while before you really feel it's your own.

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## Jon Hall

Being a Texas "pure blood", with a Jimmy Stewart inflection, Southern songs are no problem but it's kinda scary when I take a turn at Irish or Scottish vocals. :Smile:

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## AlanN

When we first moved south and I would hit the jams, I got several "You ain't from around here, is you?" I guess it was obvious.

Thank Goodness not all grass is from the south. The Seldom Scene, with John Starling on lead vocals, did much to show that perfect trio harmony could be had with nary a twang in the bunch. Ronnie McCoury has that 'in between' timbre to his voice.

I like to inflect a southern thing into vocals (within reason) on certain tunes. But when I say the days of the week all ending in -eee, the family groans.

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## mandopete

Having worked for companies that are based out of Texas for the past 20 years, there's one line that I always hear (and I like) when I'm there:

_Hi ya'll doon?_

(How are you?)

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## journeybear

Living in Key West for nearly seven years I've picked up a few Southernisms. (I also played mostly country for nearly four years, so what are ya gonna do?) People here forget sometimes that we're in the South - cosmopolitan though it may be - and locals talk and act with a certain regionality. A few years ago I spent a month in northern Mississippi ("Miss-sip," they called it), and soon found myself unintentionally speaking similarly. So much so that one of my new friends asked if I was making fun, and I said no, I was just getting acclimated. Being surrounded by these voices, some of it had to rub off on me, especially me with my flat voice. There's more to "speaking Southern" than the drawl/twang, and niceties like calling someone "sugar" or "sweetie" or "darlin'" are so charming, I'll miss them should I ever move away.

When I sing, I sometimes put on a bit of an accent, but it's usually a clumsy attempt at humor. With my voice, it's probably best to just get through the song without calling too much attention to myself.  :Wink:  Still, if you feel a song that way, go with it. I probably would myself if my bandmates would stop whacking me in the head every time I do it.  :Mad:  All in all, it's best to sing from the heart, however your voice expresses that, because people pick up on fakery real quickly. If you're really feeling the music, you'll carry that through, and affectations won't matter.

Mandopete mentioned:

_I love the the word "y'all", especially the possesive, yall's..._

Just so y'all understand, that's the _possessive_ form. The _plural_ of y'all is all y'all.  :Smile:

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## CES

South Carolina born and raised, and haven't strayed further than North Carolina other than on vacation or business...where I'm from NC's getting dangerously close to the Mason Dixon Line  :Grin:  (that smiley should really be missing at least one tooth)...

Amazingly, I don't have a very heavy Southern accent (wife's family is from Chicago originally, and we've only had a few communication issues over the years) when speaking, but I tend to slip into it when singing, especially if country, BG, or gospel...

Rather than affecting accents I have to be careful not to try to borrow the style of another vocalist.  I tend to try to sing it "how it's supposed to be" rather than making it my own.  A friend of mine and I were playing Simple Man (LS, not CDB) several months ago, and neither of us could get that guy from Shinedown's voice out of our heads....we eventually gave up, because neither of us can sing like that guy, which was frustrating b/c it's a great song and 4 chords...we kept saying, "Just sing it like you" but neither of us could do it...

Fake accents tend to irritate me, but it's hard not to sing most country and BG without a little twang...without it you end up sounding like country night on American Idol (I think Randy Travis is still going, "Huh?  I thought this was country night..."   :Frown:

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## ShaneJ

Please don't fake a Southern Accent, no matter where you are from.  Even some singers in Nashville that are from the South try to sound even more twangy than they really are, and it sounds horrible, IMO.  Everyone's best singing voice is their natural voice.  Just sing and be yourself.

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## Matt Hutchinson

> English accent, is that what they call that?


I think it's what she would call it, I don't know any English people who speak like that though and I've lived here 37 years!

In England almost EVERYONE sings with an American accent of some kind. I think it possibly started with post war variety entertainers imitating the big money US performers (take Morecambe & Wise - spoke with English regional accents but sung with American ones!). Nowadays I think people here see American accents as 'cool', maybe in the 60s British accents were considered cool in the US due to the Beatles.

Contender for 'worst fake American accent of all time' has to be Mick Jagger though (yet I don't mind it for some reason!)

Matt

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## Bruce Evans

Most of the time I sing like a native Michigander. However, I recently started singing Whiskey In the Jar at the Irish sessions. The last two lines of the last verse are:

_But me, I delight in the juice of the barley,
And courtin' pretty fair maids in the mornin' bright and early._

Now, here in Michigan - where no one has an accent (just ask us) - that last word is pronounced, "IHR-lee". But that doesn't rhyme well with "barley." So I sing the last four words, "marnin' brite 'n arley." After 6 or so verses in normal Michinglish everyone knows that I am affecting the accent for humorous puposes. 

Sometimes I sing a different word than "courtin'", too.   :Redface:

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## Paul Kotapish

I always try to sing in my own voice (and accent, such as it is), but I definitely find it challenging not to drift into emulating the singer from whom I learned the song. I, too, hate the sound of a phony accent, but at times the twang or lilt just slips in there on its own.

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## allenhopkins

> Sometimes I sing a different word than "courtin'", too.


You scalawag, you...

Irish songs on St. Pat's, especially after the third hour, have been known to make me start sounding like some WASP guy trying to sing Irish.  Maybe if I drank more -- but then I couldn't play 'em...

My main problem is leavin' off all the final "g's" when I'm singin', though when I'm talkin', I don't do that.  My wife says it's annoyin'.

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## Spencer

You get all kinds of accents in the European bands, and there are a few common pronunciation errors that I have tried, more or less unsuccessfully, to correct with the locals, but you get used to it, otherwise you'd play alone a lot.  Some bands try to copy southern accents, but most sing in a pretty much "standard" english, whatever that is. :Confused: 

When I sing, I don't consciously try to fake an accent, but once in a while something slips in.  When we do "Don't that Road look rough and Rocky" the word "thinking" sure doesn't come out sounding like it came from where I grew up in southern Wisconsin.

Spencer

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## mandozilla

Matt said;



> I think it possibly started with post war variety entertainers imitating the big money US performers (


Might it have been the influence of American recordings as well?

You know I was just thinking about Tony Rice as a singer. Though born in the Great State of VA, he grew up in California. He doesn't, excuse me, didn't (sorry Tony), sing with a full blown southern accent but some of his vowel pronunciations and inflections have a southern feeling to them.  :Smile: 

Though he's not one of my top favorite BG singers, I enjoy listening to him on the 'Bluegrass Album Band' series. And I guess the way I approache BG singing is kind of like the way Tony sings BG...I've also figured out how not to be so nasal when I sing...did that a bit in my youth.  :Laughing: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Ivan Kelsall

I think singing songs using an English accent, like how what we speak proper like,is the way to go ! (LOL!!!)  :Laughing: . Oh boy !, if you could only hear some of our British regional accents,totally impenetrable to anyone outside that region. But it's great !.May the good Lord forbid that we all speak the same way. Now if y'all could sing in a really nice Texas drawl,that's fine by me - no insult to anybody not from Texas intended,it's just that when i listen to *Jerry Allison*,Buddy Holly's old drummer speak,he's got an accent as broad as Texas itself,i could listen to that guy for hours,
                                                                                                                  Saska

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## man dough nollij

That's why we needed subtitles on The Full Monty... :Disbelief:

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## Ivan Kelsall

Lee - 'The Full Monty' were reet easy tha' knows. A few years back,a friend of mine from Newcastle in the North east of England,got up to play with his band at a Bluegrass Festival.The folk up there are known as 'Geordies' & they are wonderfully generous,warm hearted people.The accent up there takes a bit of listening to, to begin to understand the regional terminology they use. Matt (for that is my friend's name) announced to the audience *"We're gan tay play one for* *yous all nah,a tune called 'Gannin' doon the rood' "* - translated :-" We're going to play one for you all now,a tune called 'Going down the Road' " - I swear that possibly not more than 2 or 3 people understood him. I've met with a similar reaction when i've been up to that part of the Country. Having a pint in a pub,just having a general chat,someone will say " Why doon't ya speak proper like ? " - All good fun,
                                      Saska  :Grin:

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## journeybear

> ... if you could only hear some of our British regional accents,totally impenetrable to anyone outside that region.


That point was made so well by Professor 'enry 'iggins in "My Fair Lady." But there are countless examples of mini-dialects in America as well. I've known a number of people from the area around Brockton MA (south of Boston), and that is an accent I always recognize. Talk about broad accents - take that "pahk the cah" and triple it, so "Brockton" almost becomes "Brackton."  :Smile:  Jay Leno's from there, and he's bred it out of his speaking voice, but falls back into it whenever he has a guest from the vicinity. Also, since the leader of my Cajun band married into a family from the New Bedford/Fall River area, her accent isn't as distinctive as her husband's and their friends. Though it's only 30-40 miles away, it's markedly different. And when they get to talking after they've got a few beers in 'em - whew!  :Disbelief:  And I can pick up on a northern Rhode Island accent, especially since I don't hear it so often here.

My grandmother was from Boston - OK, Brookline - and what an accent she had! I thought everyone from Boston spoke like that. Decades later I learned she had grown up in Nashville - probably broke her mama's heart when she married a Yankee and moved up there - so that was quite the odd mixture of accents. 

Those of us who stay up after Letterman for Craig Ferguson get to hear a wee bit o' the Scottish burr. Glad that CBS took a chance on him, as he's hilarious and even (gasp!) intelligent - not a quality deemed desirable in this dumbing-down age. His accent isn't as thick as many other Scots', but sometimes it's quite apparent. "Early" comes out "airly," "down" becomes "doon," etc. It's been instructive.  :Wink:

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## mandozilla

Saska
As one whose ancestors fled the British Isles long ago but who still has strong feelings toward our Mother Country, it's good to know that we Americans aren't the only ones who butcher up the 'Queens English'!  :Laughing: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Ivan Kelsall

Hi mark - You guys can always come back to the fold - as long as you bring you Loars,Gils.,Dudes,
Heidens etc with you - you'd be welcomed with open cases. :Grin: 
  A note for Bruce,with his *'Barley' & 'Early'* - they don't have to rhyme,people seem to get the idea ok.It seems a bit strange at first,but believe me if i had the time to think about it,there are MANY instances of this in Folk songs from all over the place.
    We don't so much as butcher the Queen's English as 'mangle' it. We also don't invent 'new' words or new pronunciations of existing words as much as you guys in the USA seem to do on occasion. I watch many US TV series on British TV (not 'soaps' i hasten to add !) & often hear words that have been in the English language for 100's of years, either mispronounced or completely replaced with a new word,which seems to me to be un-neccessary. This process can't be stopped !.It's gone on for centuries,but i often wonder how these 'new' words come to be. In one of my favourite programmes C.S.I. - the word 'Criminologist' has been replaced with 'Criminalist',
why ?. Going back literally hundreds of years,we've had the word "Buoy" (BOY) a 'floating marker,anchored at sea'. It's become a widely used practice in the US to pronounce this word as *"Booey"* - for the life of me i can't understand why. Even the original spelling,doesn't make grammatical sense to be pronounced that way - & how do you reconcile pronouncing the word as "Booey" while still pronouncing *'Lifebuoy' as 'Lifeboy' & 'Buoyant' as 'Boyant'* ???.
   Please believe me - this is *NOT* a criticism,merely an observation as to how language can seem senseless at times & we Brits.are NOT without our linguistic downside either,
                                                                                                             saska  :Confused:

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## man dough nollij

I work with a Kiwi of British origin. He never gets tired of giving me a hard time for spelling flavour, colour, and aluminium wrong. I argue that Americans are much more efficient-- we don't need those extra letters.  :Grin:

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## Ivan Kelsall

Wel ther is that Lee,we don't want to use up all the leters do we - i can see how it makes sense -all is becuming cleer !!!,
                               Saska  :Laughing:

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## Mike Snyder

If a vocal accent is contrived, it's just gonna stink. Some accents will seem odd, but if it's real- it's real. I would have sworn that the guy from Creedance Clearwater Revival was pure Mississippi delta, or maybe south Louisianna--- nope, southern California surfer. Born On the Bijou---not.

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## Bruce Evans

> A note for Bruce,with his *'Barley' & 'Early'* - they don't have to rhyme,people seem to get the idea ok.It seems a bit strange at first,but believe me if i had the time to think about it,there are MANY instances of this in Folk songs from all over the place.


Dear saska,
With all due respect, when *I* sing them, I _want_ them to rhyme. And indeed there are many, many, "MANY instances of this in Folk songs from all over the place." And when I find them I research as much as possible to discover what might have been previous versions that do rhyme, and lacking that, I create my own versions with no reservations. I am part of the "folk process," too. 




> Going back literally hundreds of years,we've had the word "Buoy" (BOY) a 'floating marker,anchored at sea'. It's become a widely used practice in the US to pronounce this word as *"Booey"* - for the life of me i can't understand why.


Two thumbs up here. I live very close to Lake Michigan and there is a lot of boating activity in the area. The only people who pronounce buoy as "booey" are the non-cognizenti who are simply trying to be correct.

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## journeybear

> Going back literally hundreds of years,we've had the word "Buoy" (BOY) a 'floating marker,anchored at sea'. It's become a widely used practice in the US to pronounce this word as *"Booey"* - for the life of me i can't understand why. Even the original spelling,doesn't make grammatical sense to be pronounced that way - & how do you reconcile pronouncing the word as "Booey" while still pronouncing *'Lifebuoy' as 'Lifeboy' & 'Buoyant' as 'Boyant'* ???.


Waitaminnit - you mean it isn't pronounced as written, "boo-oy?"  :Laughing: 

The conflict I see between spelling and pronunciation is that writing developed long after verbal communication, so it seems to me that spelling should reflect that. Thus the way a word is written should direct the speaker to pronounce it as if it had been written phonetically. This is so often not the case - look at the way words containing "ough" vary in pronunciation. It's really rough to plough through this thoroughly, so I've always thought.  :Wink: 

I appreciate that words brought into English from other lanquages carry their spelling with them, sometimes modified, and also their pronunciation. And also words with regional variances in pronunciation would pose difficulties for someone attempting to standardize spelling. I can only imagine the headaches and heartaches Samuel Johnson and Noah Webster endured while compiling their lexicons.  :Disbelief:  There's a nice enough article on American and British English spelling differences at wikipedia.

I'm not advocating an overhaul of spelling practices to better correspond to actual pronunciation, a la Esperanto or Creole approaches. English is confusing enough as is; if it's already broke why fix it? However, I do applaud Slade's efforts in this area. "Mama Weer All Crazee Now" sez it awl.  :Grin:

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## Kentucky

The best thing any musician can do is be authentic.  Be real and true to who you are and where you are from.  Sing with the accent your history has given you.

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## mandozilla

I tend to sing like my daddy talked...I also talk a bit like dad did. I spent a lot of time with my dad as a little boy...tagged along with him at work etc...he never lost his accent even living in California. Seems like most transplants to Calif. couldn't  lose theirs fast enough! :Laughing: 

Saska
If the plural of mouse is mice, why isn't the plural of house hice?  :Confused: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## man dough nollij

> If the plural of mouse is mice, why isn't the plural of house hice?



So, do polygamists have spice?

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## alanz

How do folk feel about Kevin Costner in his Robin Hood movie?  He didn't even attempt a British accent, and took quite a bit of heat for that...

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## JeffD

> So I have to know...
> 
> Does anyone else sing with a fake accent?  
> 
> As an audience member, would you find a vocalist singing with a non-natural accent annoying or perfectly acceptable?



How about all those rockers from England and elsewhere, who sang with horrible imiatations of southern accents. They became pretty successful.

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## journeybear

> How do folk feel about Kevin Costner in his Robin Hood movie?  He didn't even attempt a British accent, and took quite a bit of heat for that...


Let's not forget Sean Connery's Scottish burr in every role he's ever played.  :Disbelief: 

Also, Renee Zellweger got taken to task for "taking" the role of Bridget Jones away from British actresses. (I thought she did rather well, BTW.)

Conversely, a lot of British actors have done pretty well doing Southern accents, and even just ordinary American accents. I've been surprised to hear their normal speaking voices on talk shows - Hugh Laurie ("House"), Lena Headey ("Terminator"), etc.

If you saw "The Boy In The Striped Pajamas," you might have noticed that there was no attempt by any of the actors in this UK/US co-production to use anything other than their British accents. I found this so distracting I wonder why the title wasn't spelled "Pyjamas."  :Smile: 

Finally, I would like to know why so many actors playing ancient Romans used something resembling British accents.  :Confused:  Perhaps "Patrician" is the universal accent, independent of culture and era?

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## mandozilla

How about Tom Cruise in Valkyrie...German accent...NOT!  :Laughing: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Ivan Kelsall

Our 'common' language for all it's USA/English 'differences,is full of spelling 'anomalies' that we've learned to live with for hundreds of years.Personally i say 'let it be'. Change for changes sake can rob us all of rich diversities that have evolved over long periods of time. If we were to spell_ 'all_ _words as they are pronounced'_,how then,do we tell the difference between a)Bow / b) Bow & c) Bow ?. a - The object that you shoot an arrow with.
                       b - To bend forward at the waist in respect.
                       c - The branch of a tree - currently spelled *'bough'.* 
 other than by the context in which  a word  is used ?. English can be a confusing language,but at least we don't have 'feminine' & 'masculine'  genders - nouns & adjectives ( i don't mean Man & Woman) as per the French & German languages.
   I'm sure we all have our views on this,which is exactly as it should be -but i feel that the expression  " if it ain't broke,dont mend it " fits well here (IMHO),
                                                                                      Saska :Wink:

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## MandOz

Bluegrass has dedicated followings in all English speaking countries. Just as the method of Bluegrass Mandolin playing has to be emulated thus the 'texture' rather than the accent of the songs has to be copied. 'New Mule Skinner Blues' in a Yorkshire accent would be a joke (OK if that is what you want to achieve). I like to play and sing 'White Lightning' (yeah, it's not strictly bluegrass)  - the fiddle break translates well to mandolin - the song cannot be sung credibly in my Australian accent. The change is a natural accomodation.

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## Bruce Evans

Just yesterday I discovered (for me) on YouTube the song, Sally Wheatley. Beautiful melody and a captivating story. I had to research the lyrics. Here is the verse as I found it at http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiSALLYWH.html . 

_Oh dear me, Ah divent na what to de
for Sally's stole my heart away completely,
and Ah'll niver get it back
for she gans wi' Mr. Black
and they say he's gan ter marry Sally Wheatley._

The poster adds, in part, this note:
"This would normally be delivered by someone with a strong Newcastle accent, which is very hard to understand if you haven't lived there, but this accent softens somewhat when they sing -a bit in the way that everybody tends to favour an American accent when singing no matter what their origins. KRS"

I am still trying to decide how to sing this, but I think I am going to have to deliver it attempting the accent in my best Michinglish. One of my favorite lines is:

_if you fail ta shove ahead and fettle reetly,_


"Fettle reetly." It obviously means from context, to do the proper thing in time. Although I have never heard a "strong Newcastle accent." I think I will have to sing it just like this, because it must rhyme with, "Sally Wheatley." (_See previous post._)

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## journeybear

> Our 'common' language for all its USA/English differences, is full of spelling 'anomalies' that we've learned to live with for hundreds of years. Personally I say 'let it be'. Change for change's sake can rob us all of rich diversities that have evolved over long periods of time.


I certainly do not advocate any change unless I can propose a valid workable solution, which I can't. I do wish, though, that our written language had _developed_ differently, so that the examples you mentioned ("bow") and many, many others, would have been spelled differently. We needed more than five vowel characters. Each vowel has several pronunciations, some determined by context, some not, which require memorization. What I wish for is a written language that is instantly pronounceable because each letter has but one sound. I know it's too late for this in our civilization, but if I were king ...  :Whistling: 

And I agree - having no genders is wonderful. I also appreciate the lack of cases for nouns. Taking a couple of terms of Serbo-Croatian in college was enlightening on this matter. For those unfamiliar, in Latin and Russian and a lot of their related languages (Greek and Sankrit too), there are declensions for nouns much as there are conjugations for verbs - only more of them, I think eight in S-C - called cases. Thankfully in English there are just the subjective and objective cases, and prepositions define the rest. The original approach calls for _a lot_ of memorization. I guess if you grow up speaking these languages you are naturally accustomed to them, but as an outsider trying to learn - and simultaneously unlearn one's customs, and consciously separate the two - whew! I appreciate what immigrants go through trying to become acclimated to their new homes.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Imagine how difficult it must be learning MANDOLIN CHINESE,
                                                                                 Saska  :Laughing:

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## ralph johansson

> Dear saska,
> With all due respect, when *I* sing them, I _want_ them to rhyme. And indeed there are many, many, "MANY instances of this in Folk songs from all over the place." And when I find them I research as much as possible to discover what might have been previous versions that do rhyme, and lacking that, I create my own versions with no reservations. I am part of the "folk process," too.


"folk process is the name everybody gives to their mistakes" (oscar wilde - almost)

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## journeybear

> Imagine how difficult it must be learning MANDOLIN CHINESE



Try it on a Chinese mandolin!  :Grin:

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## Ivan Kelsall

OMG ! - In the face of overwhelming wit,i give in,
                                                                 Saska :Frown:

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## mandozilla

I wonder what it is about BG music, the 'Ancient Tones' or obvious British Isles balladry/Scots Irish fiddle music influences that appeals or speaks to people outside Dear Old Dixe in the USA let alone to the other English speaking nations that seem to love the music.  :Disbelief:  I doubt its the blues/jazz/swing aspects but I dunno...there I go, careening off on a tangent again.  :Laughing: 
 :Mandosmiley:

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## Ivan Kelsall

Mark - The ONLY picking session that i can currently attend is 99% Irish music.Lots of Fiddle tunes which i manage to pick through by the seat of my pants.The ONLY difference between many of those tunes & Bluegrass is TEMPO.You're right in your thoughts about it being a music that 'speaks' to people - even the English,Scotts & Irish who's music forms the basis of many Bluegrass tunes.
    I've been at Bluegrass festivals & stood near to folk who had never been to a Bluegrass festival,or heard/seen a Bluegrass band before - usually curious local folk,these folk just get blown away by the music. To see & hear a good Bluegrass band in full flow is a truly awesome sight & sound & even Bluegrass 'newbies' appreciate the musical skill displayed. 
    It's the same for me when i hear Scottish or Irish Jigs & Reels. When i cease to tap my foot along to that style of music - i'll be 6 feet underground,
                                                                          (tap,tap,tappety tap.....) Saska :Grin:

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## JeffD

I tend to pick up accents really fast. Within a couple of weeks of stumbling around Scotland - while I did not sound like a highland native, nobody would have accused me of being from New Jersey.

And while I have spent my life (thus far) north of the Mason-Dixon, it only takes a week or two in Dallas - Fort Worth and I'm giving directions like a native.

It's nothing I can fake or even do deliberately, it just happens as I talk to folks, and I don't notice it till I get back home.

The point is that if one is immersed in Irish music, for example, up to the eyeballs, and singing being an audio emulation of some sort, it would be somewhat natural to fall into an accent.

Just don't perform it till you have the accent down cold authentic.

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## Ivan Kelsall

Back in 1992 at the Executive Inn,Owensboro at the IBMA Fanfest,me & my workmate who i was over with were in the resaurant getting dinner.There was a very pretty young lady serving & she heard me & Andy talking.She said to us _"we sure do like your accent"._ I turned to Andy & said
in a very English 'upper class' voice (well,as near to it as i could get !) _"we don't have accents do_ _we.It's these people who have accents"._ The young lady nearly dissolved laughing, as did we.
   One thing i love to hear,is the way Canadians pronounce the word _'out'_. It sounds more like _'oat'_ than any other word. When my late & much missed Canadian friend David Tinkoff used to phone me, or me him,i just loved to hear him pronounce 'out' or 'about' - it sounded 'rural' somehow. I love regional accents.
   I live in Manchester which is in the English county of Lancashire,but my 'home' county is Cheshire,which is very rural still,whereas Manchester has been a major industrial city.When i began playing Banjo in 1963,i went to all the Folk music clubs i could get to & made friends with a local
Banjo player (clawhammer) & Lancashire dialect poet. I was talking to him once regarding accents & dialects. Now most Lancashire accents are _'reet broad tha knows'_, whereas i considered myself as having no sort of accent at all. He said to me 'you don't hear yourself as other people do,believe me you DO have an accent'. A couple of years after that,me & my band did some session work & at the end of the recording (good old reel-to-reel tape),the tape was left running as we were talking.When we played the tape back,i heard my own voice for the first time - i was floored !. I sounded twice as 'broad' at the people i thought had this strange accent - i couldn't believe i sounded like that, i probably still do,
                                                             Saska  :Grin:

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## billkilpatrick

i sing songs in italian, french, latin, a galacian/portugese/latin mixture, one song in old german and many more in good ol' amur'ican english from nyc ... accents? - pshaw! ...

dubious accents in bluegrass/old time music are distracting but what really bothers me is the whining nasal tone that goes with it.

- bill*

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## journeybear

> ... dubious accents in bluegrass/old time music are distracting but what really bothers me is the whining nasal tone that goes with it.


Ditto with people mock-imitating Bob Dylan's accent. Boy oh boy, someone has got to explain HIS accent, because NOBODY else from Minnesohta talks like that, yoo knohw ...  :Smile:  When I "do" him I sound as much like Bullwinkle as him. One of my favorite bits of stage patter, in a tweak to local icon Jimmy Buffett, is to say one of my favorite Dylan songs is this one, one he's not so famous for, and then let the moose loose on "wasted away again in Maragaritaville ...  :Laughing:  Gets 'em every time. I have yet to get all the way to the last line.

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## mandocrucian

Did Mary Black ever go back to singing in her regular voice?  Great Irish singer, but then somewhere along the line she decided she wanted to sound more like Nanci Griffith and sing bland semi-C&W and became really mediocre. I remember my wife got a copy of *The Holy Ground* and we both thought it was a total waste of money. 

And I could never stand American folkies (esp Baez) that would put on the brouge for Irish or Scottish stuff. (Unless it was parody/comedy....which is something _entirely_ different.

However, when English is not the singer's naitive language, then they might as well go for the regional accent for the material.  There was(is?) a BG band in Helsinki that was into the hardcore sound and it was hard to tell they weren't Americans vocally. 

NH

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## Bruce Evans

> Did Mary Black ever go back to singing in her regular voice?  Great Irish singer, but then somewhere along the line she decided she wanted to sound more like Nanci Griffith and sing bland semi-C&W and became really mediocre. I remember my wife got a copy of *The Holy Ground* and we both thought it was a total waste of money. 
> NH


Just a thought. I don't _know_ nuthin'. 

Maybe Mary was aiming the "product" at  a certain market - a market for which it had been determined they would sell more "units" if she didn't sing with an "annoying" accent. Maybe they were hoping there would be more people who appreciated it than those who didn't. 

Maybe not. I don't know nuthin'.

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## billkilpatrick

> One of my favorite bits of stage patter, in a tweak to local icon Jimmy Buffett, is to say one of my favorite Dylan songs is this one, one he's not so famous for, and then let the moose loose on "wasted away again in Maragaritaville ...  Gets 'em every time. I have yet to get all the way to the last line.


that's good ...

a good way to psyche yourself out of singing with an accent is to make the song mean something to you - make it "real."  when playing any music linked to a culture or tradition - bluegrass/old-time included - it's so easy to make it sound like a pastiche - a goofy stereotype.  

with the motown songs i'm doing lately, i make an effort to enunciate the "-ing" endings of some words which aren't there in the original and to substitute those that a 62 year old, middle-class white-guy wouldn't use without feeling ridiculous.  there are limits, of course but the point is to be true to the song.

after 30-plus years of living in 'yurp, my amur'ican accent - such as it was - is probably somewhere mid-atlantic, heading east.  when i meet europeans for the first time they usually ask if i'm canadian or irish (!?) ... americans usually say " - and who are you trying to be?" 

"tell me what (did) i say! ... let me hear you say 'yes!' ... " - bill*

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## journeybear

> "tell me what (did) i say! ... let me hear you say 'yes!' ... " - bill*


LOL!  :Laughing:  But please, no grammatical corrections. At least not so they ruin the poetry. I'm so glad Tim Hardin said "If I were a carpenter/ And you were a lady." EVERYBODY else says "If I was ..." which just ain't right!

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## mandozilla

> what really bothers me is the whining nasal tone that goes with it.





BLUEGRASS : "Music from the heart, sung through the nose!"  :Grin: 

I take it you don't care for BLUEGRASS music billkilpatrick? That's OK the world's big enough for all genres I suppose.  :Laughing: 

We are in the BLUEGRASS Forum aren't we or am I lost?  :Disbelief: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## allenhopkins

I remember back when Joan Baez's second LP came out, and she did _Little Darling, Pal Of Mine_ and _Banks Of the Ohio_ with the Greenbriar Boys; my college friend Lance Mather of Middletown OH used to mock her "southern Ohio accent" on the bluegrass/country songs.

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## man dough nollij

Not so much on the musical topic, but I get to spend a bunch of time in New Zealand and Australia. I could never tell one from the other, probably because one Kiwi will have a very different accent from another one. Aussies, not so much, in my observation. 

When I went from NZ to OZ, and back again last year, I figured it out. A Kiwi will sometimes pronounce "Fish and Chips" as "Fush and Chups" an Aussie never would. An Aussie will sometimes pronounce it as "Feesh and Cheeps", but a Kiwi never would. The rule I remember is: if they ever pronounce "i" as "ee", they are Ozzy every time. 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming... :Popcorn:

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## mandozilla

Say Lee
Ever find any bluegrass music in NZ? Or at least any mando music of any kind there? The wife and I may be vacationing in NZ in the next year.  :Grin: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## man dough nollij

No, not so much. I came real close to a festival in Queensland, Oz. Just missed it by a couple of days. I don't know if there's much of a BG scene in NZ-- probably some. They are hurtin' for music stores, I can tell you that much. 

I was within a stone's throw of luthier Davy Stuart's  place in Christchurch-- I'm going to see if I stop in for a visit. 

PM or e-mail me when you get closer to your travel date-- I can probably be a virtual tour guide. NZ is an amazing country. If I could live anywhere in the world, it would be there.

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## mandozilla

Thanks Lee. Never been there, only seen photos but man what a georgeous country!  :Grin: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Mike Crater

I had a singing class with Kathy Kallack and her advice was not to use an accent you didn't come by naturally.  Otherwise, you're just hee-haw.

Personally, I speak with a North Carolina drawl, but sing with a neutral accent unless there's no other way to sing the word.  Ban-ger and darlin' come to mind.

On the other hand, if you're having fun, does it matter?

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## billkilpatrick

> ... I take it you don't care for BLUEGRASS music billkilpatrick?


no-no ... i like it - it's the ersatz, "hee-haw" accents (as mike says) that are off putting.

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## Chris Keth

Sometimes an accent is important for the rhythm or character of the song. I and a few friends sang _Mother's Lament_ from Cream's "Disraeli Gears" album. We started out doing it without the heavy cockney accents and it just doesn't work. We ended up doing it in the heaviest, cheesiest accents we could muster and it went over great.

..A muva was wushing her baybee one noight... :Wink:

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## mandozilla

I wonder if American opera singers, when singing an opera in Italian, sing with Italian accents or if they use whatever their native dialect is? You know, Brooklyn, Philly, Jersey, New England, Mississippi, or whatever?  :Laughing:  :Laughing:  :Laughing: 

Oh, and why is it that almost all of the UK singers we hear/heard in the US sing with some kind of American Accent and that's OK? HMM? Go figure!  :Confused: 

 :Mandosmiley:

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## Bruce Evans

> I wonder if American opera singers, when singing an opera in Italian, sing with Italian accents or if they use whatever their native dialect is? You know, Brooklyn, Philly, Jersey, New England, Mississippi, or whatever?
> 
> Oh, and why is it that almost all of the UK singers we hear/heard in the US sing with some kind of American Accent and that's OK? HMM? Go figure!


I wonder: Could all this discussion be boiled down to good singers are good singers and mediocre singers aren't?

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## billkilpatrick

> Sometimes an accent is important for the rhythm or character of the song. I and a few friends sang _Mother's Lament_ from Cream's "Disraeli Gears" album. We started out doing it without the heavy cockney accents and it just doesn't work. We ended up doing it in the heaviest, cheesiest accents we could muster and it went over great.
> 
> ..A muva was wushing her baybee one noight...


i tried it just now and you're right - sounds psychotic ...

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## Chris Keth

> i tried it just now and you're right - sounds psychotic ...


Yeah, it just doesn't work.

That song w/  accent=funny
That song w/o accent=stupid and the rhymes don't work

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## journeybear

> i tried it just now and you're right - sounds psychotic ...



Cream - Mother's Lament

Lyrics (the poster's best guess - YMMV):

Are we wollin'? A one, a two, a free, a four...

A mother was washing her baby one night,
The youngest of ten and a delicate mite.
The mother was poor and the baby was thin,
'Twas naught but an skelingtin covered with skin.

The mother turned 'round for a soap off the rack.
She was only a moment but when she turned back
Her baby had gone, and in anguish she cried,
"Oh, where 'as my baby gone?" The angels replied:

Oh, your baby has gone down the plug 'ole.
Oh, your baby has gone down the plug.
The poor little thing was so skinny and thin,
He should 'ave been washed in a jug, in a jug.

Your baby is perfectly happy;
He won't need a bath anymore.
He's a-muckin' about with the angels above,
Not lost but gone before.

Thank you,
Do you wanna do it again?

Another similar curio from the same time period is side B of Ogden's Nut Gone Flake by The Small Faces. It's a mock fairy tale called "Happinesd Stan" narrated by I-wish-I-knew-whom interspersed by a series of somewhat thematically related songs. The narrator uses a mock Cockney (would that be mockney?) accent and keeps tripping over his own tongue as well. It's hilarious, and also the songs are good. The meaning of life is summed up thusly: "Life is just a bowl of oat bran/ You wake up every morning and it's there."   :Grin:  It's living proof that The Beatles did not have exclusive rights to envelope-stretching musical creativity.  :Mandosmiley:

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## billkilpatrick

in early '60-something, i first heard this song on a british, folkways-ish lp of english pub songs - freshly brought from dear ol'blighty by a friend of a friend, etc..  i tried singing some of these gems to my earnest, folky-buddy friends down in washington square ("sweeny todd the barber" being one) and do you know ... they just didn't want to know!

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## Eddie Sheehy

I wish.... hard to hide a brogue.

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## Ivan Kelsall

My favourite accent of all is Irish (Eire). I have several friends over there & i get a buzz every time i speak to one of them.They sound so laid back,they're horizontal, in spite of currently having a
tough time of it financially - wonderful people !,
                                                                Saska  :Wink:

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## Martin Jonas

> If you saw "The Boy In The Striped Pajamas," you might have noticed that there was no attempt by any of the actors in this UK/US co-production to use anything other than their British accents. I found this so distracting I wonder why the title wasn't spelled "Pyjamas."


Oh, but it _was_.  Only the US release got the "pajamas" spelling, the rest of the anglophone world had "pyjamas", as indeed did the book.

Martin

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## journeybear

> Another similar curio from the same time period is side B of Ogden's Nut Gone Flake by The Small Faces. It's a mock fairy tale called "Happiness Stan" narrated by I-wish-I-knew-whom interspersed by a series of somewhat thematically related songs. The narrator uses a mock Cockney (would that be mockney?) accent and keeps tripping over his own tongue as well. It's hilarious, and also the songs are good. The meaning of life is summed up thusly: "Life is just a bowl of oat bran/ You wake up every morning and it's there."   It's living proof that The Beatles did not have exclusive rights to envelope-stretching musical creativity.




I am amazed every day at what will find its way to youtube! Someone actually took the time to excerpt Stanley Unwin's narration from Happiness Stan and upload it, along with some suitably psychedlic imagery. Some of the edits are a little rough. It's better as an entirety with the songs and all, but this gives you an idea of what I was talking about, including the meaning of life at the end. The youtube video has a lot of background info too. It looks like the whole album is up there in serial (not cereal) form.  :Grin:   :Wink:   :Whistling:

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