# Music by Genre > Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance >  classical setup and such

## fatt-dad

I'm trying my hand at some classical pieces. Learning to read standard notation is all a part of this great experiment.  I have a way to go on tone and technique and am in no rush.  There is a library of new musical passages and muscle memory to obtain!

I have several mandolins and use mostly j-74 string gauges.  Often using EXP-74s, but more recently using the Gibson Monel (Sam Bush) stings.  I use a heavy pick (Blue Chip CT55).  I'm mostly playing my Cohen, which is an a5-sort-of mandolin.  I have two older Gibson oval hole mandolins too.  Use the j-74s on them also.

I read about "flat wound" and Thomistic-type strings. I'm curious whether the more "proper" classical tone is obtained from a pointy pick versus a rounded pick and these strings.  I also figure that in the 1900s there were few choices and folks just made it happen.  Can you all help a newbie?  Sure, there's a lot of personal preference, but I'd be interested in any consensus that relates to classical setup.

Meanwhile I'm practicing and having a great time!

f-d

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## Jim Garber

There is no consensus as to proper classical set up. The only thing I can say is that some players prefer the shorter scale that would allow bigger stretches up the neck. Otherwise, I would stay with whatever set up you have. You may want to lower your action and make difficult passage easier that way. 

I am not generally a fan of flatwound/TI strings. I know some players are. You certainly can try them and you may like them. It is a entirely a matter of taste. The only mandolins I have liked with those strings are Phoenix Neo-Classicals. 

Just for info: even in Europe there are various schools of playing classical. The German school does prefer T-I strings (less pick noise, rubbery plectra and large-bodied bowlbacks. Some Italian players prefer roundwound (Dogal Calace) strings and Embergher or Calace mandolins.

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fatt-dad, 

JEStanek, 

Marty Jacobson

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## KristinEliza

I guess it depends on what your final goal is.  Are you just dipping your toes into the genre and playing some Bach...or are you jumping into the pool and wanting to explore the technique and repertoire?

If you just want to play some tunes, I don't see any need to change your set up.  Maybe you would like to try some different strings for a different tone, etc.

But if you really want to learn some classical technique and 'standard' repertoire...that's when a different pick may come in handy, etc.

I use the TI flatwounds on my F-style mandolin and I like them.  They don't project as much (but I think that it mostly my mando) but I am happy with them.  I tried them on my Mandola and couldn't stand them!

Once I made the switch over to a pointed pick...I never went back.  I can't play anything on a rounded pick anymore!

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fatt-dad

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## fatt-dad

Oh do tell me the pointed pick that you use!

f-d

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## KristinEliza

I find most 'jazz' picks are pointy enough for me.  If not, I can modify them.  

On my F-style I use a BC large jazz.  But that pick is too much for my bowlback. 

I am currently using a Wegen "bigcity" pick that I have slightly modified to make the point a little less rounded.  It produces a smoother more consistent tone that I like for most of my classical playing.  And I have some TS picks that I rotate through from time to time.  I have yet to try a roman style pick...but hope to one day.

For my mandola I use a rather large triangular TS pick...but I'm not doing anything fancy (read - technically challenging) on the mandola!  Just want to get a big 'dola sound out of it!

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fatt-dad

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## fatt-dad

So, KristinEliza do you like the thick pick?  I have a Dunlop jazz pick that I'm going to try tonight.  It's the 206. I picked it up one day when I learned that's the pick that Scott T. (a.k.a., Cafe Dad) used.

Thanks so much for the feedback.  mostly I'm just excited 'cause I'm making progress reading standard notation and have a classical duet partner (he's on hammered dulcimer).

Here's the piece of music I'm reading right now.  I'm pretty good up to the chromatic stuff. . .



f-d

p.s., Orrin Star was my mandolin instructor in the mid-80s.  Funny eh?

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## Jim Garber

My main "classical" pick was the John Pearse Jazz heavy.  I have since then gone thru a few other types including Roman/Ranieri style and Blue Chip jazz 35. The BC is my all-around go-to pick but i sometimes go back to the Ranieri.

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fatt-dad

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## KristinEliza

Those Telemann Canonic Sonatas are fun to play!

As for thickness, I can't really say I have a preference.  I don't like the feel of a really thick pick in my hand (my mandola picks are a bit thick) , and it depends on how much the instrument can take.  I guess that's why I have a container full of picks!  Oh well....they are cheap (compared to my other musical accessories!)

My BC is a "50".  My Wegens are 1.4mm

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fatt-dad

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## Bill Clements

Carl, I've got a number of easier classical pieces/duets I'd be glad to send you.  
I've tried many different strings, and I keep coming back to Thomastiks.  I know they don't project like other strings, but like the feel, and lack of string noise.  I've tried all three varieties and have settled on the Starks, but the Mittels are fine, too.  I use a BC TAD60-1R.  I'd like to try the TAD80-1R but at $50 I may wait until I win the lottery!   :Disbelief:  Once Red Bear gets back in production, maybe look at a Roman Plectrum.
Careful...once bitten by the Classical bug you'll be hooked!

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## fatt-dad

Bill,

Any duets would be great.  My jam mate is a hammered dulcimer/guitar player (and much more accomplished then me), so we would work up a duet for sure.  I recently bought the Telemann for Mandolin book, so that's fun for solo playing.  That said, I gotta make good with my jam mate so I'm more focused on the duet stuff.  After I get the Telemann cannon down, I'm headed over to Bach to get one of the inventions worked up.  My jam mate has one of them transposed to a mandolin-friendly key, so I got a bit of homework.

Thankfully, I learned a few years back not to rush the music!

On a related, but unrelated note:  Do classical players like flat fretboards, thin fretwire or any other typical preferences?

f-d

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## JeffD

> Careful...once bitten by the Classical bug you'll be hooked!


True that.

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## Tom Cherubini

Pretty darn nice. Telemann is fun. If you want to have even more fun, try altering the dynamics from chorus to chorus for a little variety and to keep the listener interested.

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## fatt-dad

> Pretty darn nice. Telemann is fun. If you want to have even more fun, try altering the dynamics from chorus to chorus for a little variety and to keep the listener interested.


THAT'S NOT ME PLAYING IN THE VIDEO!!  I got a long journey to that destination!

f-d

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## Tom Cherubini

> THAT'S NOT ME PLAYING IN THE VIDEO!!  I got a long journey to that destination!
> 
> f-d


Oh. I thought you looked kind of different! and when you said that you were just learning how to read, I thought, wow, this guy is very modest. He makes Telemann look easy.
 :Smile: 

Thomas

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## man

I bought the Kentucky 150 and have been using it to pluck through my old violin material. For an entry level non-oval hole non-violin scale instrument I find that it nevertheless lends itself well to classical music. Especially pieces that call for a more percussive sound like Vivaldi. All of the classical fingerings will work as written although some 1st position reaches like F/F# on the A string are tougher (but doable). The folks I bought from also started me off with a handful of different picks. My favorite so far is the 1.5mm Pro Pleck because it gives a fuller tone and doesn't click against the string as loudly as the thinner picks.

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## Martin Jonas

> Any duets would be great.


Check out John Goodin's Mandotopia site, which has many great duets, including:

Original tunes (solos and duets) by John
John's Transcriptions of 18th century mandolin and cittern duets
John's mandolin duo arrangements of Bach and Telemann pieces

Martin

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## fatt-dad

> Check out John Goodin's Mandotopia site, which has many great duets, including:
> 
> Original tunes (solos and duets) by John
> John's Transcriptions of 18th century mandolin and cittern duets
> John's mandolin duo arrangements of Bach and Telemann pieces
> 
> Martin


Thanks for the links!  I did buy his book and tried a few. . .  All in good time.  I am making progress on one piece though!

f-d

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## John Uhrig

I was bitten by the classical bug a few years back.
I have bought, downloaded and copied ( with permission )  as much music and old method books as I can lay my hands on. I like old books!
I put Thomastic Mediums on my Eastman 514. I really like how they sound and feel. And they do seem to last a long time.
I was able to get ahold of some Pettine picks awhile back. They are the smaller, very pointy ones, 0.95mm thick.
I used the Bickford method, and Christofaro, to learn how to read the dots when I finally decided that it was time. I'm so glad that I did. It just opened up so much more available music.

So f-d   good luck on your journey in classical music.

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fatt-dad

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## BinkWms

I am using the BC Jazz LG 50 with TI flatwounds on a BRW two point mando.  Love the tone and action.  My main problem seems to be the scale length which needs to be shorter.  Guess I need a bowlback or a finger stretcher.

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## Jim Garber

> Guess I need a bowlback or a finger stretcher.


Or a Lyon & Healy/Washburn, Martin or Vega mandolin with a 13" scale.

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## Martin Jonas

> Thanks for the links!  I did buy his book and tried a few. . .  All in good time.  I am making progress on one piece though!
> 
> f-d


To follow up on this side trip into John Goodin's Telemann arrangements, I have just posted my recording of three of John's duets of the Telemann minuets in the old Telemann thread here in the Classical forum:



For the on-topic setup discussion: for this clip I've played the first mandolin on my "Baroq-ulele" with four single nylgut strings in mandolin tuning GDAE, using a pointy thin (0.8mm, I think) green Tortex pick, and the second mandolin on Embergher bowlback with Optima Goldin strings, using a 0.88mm (dark-gray) Jim Dunlop nylon pick.

Martin

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## fatt-dad

Thanks everybody.  Just saw yesterday that John Goodin has published 50 duos from Telemann's work.  Some more to work on, eh?

Sight reading is still a struggle though.  If I can hear it first, then the dots can inform my playing.  But, to just go dots to music. . .  Well, that's a different story.

f-d

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## Tom Cherubini

Dots to music? No. If you are a new reader it is MUCH more difficult to learn/play a piece that you have never heard. That's where U-toob comes in. It has been a boon to players of all categories of music. Sit in front of the computer with your piece, slip on the headphones, find ten million versions of your piece on U-toob and follow along. It doesn't have to a mandolin recording. Any instrument will do. Some U-toob performances even have a sort of 'bouncing ball follow-along' music staff in the video.

T.

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## Tom Cherubini

I had an idea for you today, FD. Gesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring, by Bach is simple to read and quite beautiful. I just happened to have the sheet on my music stand today and I played the melody line. I immediately thought of you and your commendable ambition to read the "dots". I'm sure you could download the music on the web. 

Tom

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## fatt-dad

(we ran the Telemann Canonic Sonata tonight.  It was a blast!  I tried the lead and I tried the follow.  Now I'll learn the frist two movements and we'll have the whole thing.  All in good time. . .)

f-d

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## Tom Cherubini

> (we ran the Telemann Canonic Sonata tonight.  It was a blast!  I tried the lead and I tried the follow.  Now I'll learn the frist two movements and we'll have the whole thing.  All in good time. . .)
> 
> f-d


Which one?

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## fatt-dad

I'm working up the same sonata that's in the video.  So, that one!  (I guess I need the correct citation, eh?)

f-d

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## billkilpatrick

fd - i prefer a quieter, more lute-like sound for the classical pieces and for this i use a risha or mizrab as it's sometimes called.  basically it's a strip of plastic - in days of old when knights were ... etc., they used strips of horn or bird quill.  the strings are calace round-wound, RW92 medium - which also help to produce a more mellow, less percussive tone:  (good luck on the reading exercises - i find it incredibly hard)

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fatt-dad, 

Jesse Harmon

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## billkilpatrick

... here's another with calace strings on both mid-missouri instruments (m-o and m-4) - beatrice uses a standard pick while i use the risha:

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fatt-dad, 

Jesse Harmon

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## Jim Garber

I also like the Dogal Calace RW92 strings. I actually put them on my L&H (most classical players in the US seem to like T-I on those mandolins). I do like the tone but I think it would sound even better with the stronger tension which is RW92A. I ordered some of those.

I use the very light RW92B (dolce) on my vintage bowlbacks. They sound esp good on the Vega.

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## Jesse Harmon

I have been doing BWV 1008 Suite 11 for violin, (The Prelude)  JS Bach.  This was picked somewhere from the Cafe and it's really doable and a pleasure to read. Thanks for this thread, I have been using my Rigel Q which has the original strings from when I bought it used about a year and a half ago.  This thread has made me feel guilty about changing my strings and also playing my AC bowlback more.  On learning to read I found it helpful to spend a designated time each morning working on music that I did not know and turning the page the minute I became familiar with it.  Constant new material and fairly short sessions.  Leaning on You Tube or recordings is only helpful on very complex rhythms and can become a crutch.  Nothing wrong with it except it can shortstop your goal which is to learn how to also visually connect to these rhythms.  I used a book called Melodic Rhythms for Guitar for this, I don't know whether there is an equivalent book for mandolin but it is excellent for learning the rhythms.

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