# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Water Damaged Master Model on E-bay

## tnt2002

This one looks repairable.  Not by me though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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## Mike Bromley

Uh, nope.

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## barney 59

If the price doesn't go any higher it might be fun to try.

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## Mandolin Mick

You'd have to love a challenge ... I'm not that ambitious ...  :Wink:

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## Ed Goist

I know I'm seeing this through the eyes of someone with very marginal 'handy' skills, but...
How on earth did the bid get as high as it has on this?!

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## JeffD

> The mandolin split open and the entire wood body is warped, split, cracked, chipped, etc etc. The strings are rusty, the screws are rusty. The finish of the mandolin has water marks on it as well. The case is also water damaged. The latches are rusty and the felt is peeling inside the case.


But think of the money you'd save.  :Smile:

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Verne Andru

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## Chris Biorkman

I wouldn't pay $20 for that. It's junk.

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## Spruce

> I wouldn't pay $20 for that. It's junk.


Yeah, plus it's got all that water damage.....

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Magnus Geijer

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## woodwizard

Wow! Accidents & natural diasters happen. Sad. Doesn't matter how much it's worth when it's soaked in water it's going to come apart. Seen pictures of a Loar apart like that from water damage. I bet it would cost way too much to fix this F5G right. Wonder how many Loars were lost/destroyed etc. through time? I'm pretty sure there are probably several that didn't make it.

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## MikeEdgerton

I'm amazed that anyone would pay that much for this. There is one Loar that has been a flood and was reconstructed. It was for sale a few years ago and was owned at the time by a collector (and forum member) from Florida.

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## woodwizard

On the other hand... now that one was worth fixin'  :Smile:

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mojocaster

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## Brett Byers

the tailpiece looks fine.  :Smile:

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## sgarrity

First of all it's not a Master Model.  And it surely ain't worth the money to buy it and then pay to repair it!

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## Bernie Daniel

> the tailpiece looks fine.


Yeah that and the tuners, and the inlay -- look OK.   But the rest is probably not remotely worth trying to restore, IMO. 

Isn't there at LEAST $2 - 2.5K in work there for a luthier -- maybe (probably) more?  

Then you are about back to the price of a decent used F-5G that has never been "under water for 24 hours".  This is a great example of what a c-r-a-pshoot eBay has become for some items -- like quality musical insturments.  That high bidder is being taken for sure.

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## MikeEdgerton

> First of all it's not a Master Model.  And it surely ain't worth the money to buy it and then pay to repair it!


The Gibson F5G label is the standard Gibson label that says it's a Master Model. The seller is taking it from that.

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## sgarrity

Yeh I know Mike.  I always thought it was stupid that Gibson did that.  But in mando speak it still ain't a MM, it's an F5G!

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## allenhopkins

OK, the waterlogged F-5G is currently at $700.  Recent used F-5G's have sold between $2.8K and $3.2K.  That's a "spread" (assuming that bids on the "Jacques Cousteau model" don't go much higher) of between $2.1K and $2.5K.  Now, of course we don't know what the restored "Titanic" Gibson will look or sound like, so it's a crapshoot (will the Cafe censor program edit that?), but if in fact, as hypothesized above, "there['s] at LEAST $2 - 2.5K in work there for a luthier," you're not too far from an economically defensible purchase.

Not that _I'm_ gonna *take the plunge...

LATER:* Can't believe I said "take the plunge"!  Actually, it's the F-5G that took it; my mind must have been underwater, or maybe I'm "all wet" by nature -- but really, it's the _mandolin_ that's "all wet"...

Time to stop now, and go to bed.

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## mrmando

I'm buying it for my wife to use in her mermaid act.

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## Bill Snyder

> Yeah that and the tuners, and the inlay -- look OK.   But the rest is probably not remotely worth trying to restore, IMO. 
> 
> Isn't there at LEAST $2 - 2.5K in work there for a luthier -- maybe (probably) more?  
> 
> Then you are about back to the price of a decent used F-5G that has never been "under water for 24 hours".  This is a great example of what a c-r-a-pshoot eBay has become for some items -- like quality musical insturments.  *That high bidder is being taken for sure*.


How so? If all of the pertinent facts are given I don't see how anyone is being taken. They may lack the knowledge to limit their bid at a reasonable level, but to say they are being taken suggests the seller is pulling the wool over their eyes.

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## Knucklehead

> I'm amazed that anyone would pay that much for this. There is one Loar that has been a flood and was reconstructed. It was for sale a few years ago and was owned at the time by a collector (and forum member) from Florida.


Was that the one that was in a car that went into one of the canals in Florida? I heard the story from a friend who has a couple of music stores out in Hawaii.

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## Bernie Daniel

> How so? If all of the pertinent facts are given I don't see how anyone is being taken. They may lack the knowledge to limit their bid at a reasonable level, but to say they are being taken suggests the seller is pulling the wool over their eyes.


Taken as in making an poor/uninformed decision (not being defrauded) -- certainly the seller has a right to sell.  My main point was these on-line auctions (like eBay) readily lead to these questionable purchase decisions.  Not too many, even uninformed, mandolin buyers would walk into a music store, handle that mandolin and then pay over $700 for it with that kind of damage I'd guess.  But on-line they figure maybe I can fix it up.  I have not actually seen it but I doubt it will be worth the effort.  I could be wrong.

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## bmac

It all depends on whether you have the skills and how you value your time... Granted, it would not be worth its price and then paying someone else to restore it... However it could be a wonderful deal for a retired builder interested in owning a Gibson of that era. Or, I suspect, a skilled amateur could bring it back to playability and appearance. I think it would be a really interesting challange.

If I had the money.....???

.

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## AlanN

> There is one Loar that has been a flood and was reconstructed. It was for sale a few years ago and was owned at the time by a collector (and forum member) from Florida.


Yeah, Charles Johnson has a series of photos of that Loar. Serious seam sep (but not as bad as this, as I recall). I heard Gilchrist fixed it up.

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## MikeEdgerton

It took me a few minutes but I found the pictures of the Loar that was dmaaged on Charles Johnsons site. They are here. He always has great stuff at www.vintagemandolin.com.

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## Bernie Daniel

Nice pictures!  Hate to see that but for sure I would pay $700 for a water damaged Gibson F-5 that happened to be signed by Lloyd Loar.  :Smile:

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## Tom C

That Charles Johnson one is #72799. After being reparied, it looks well used but does not look like it's been in a flood.

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## MikeEdgerton

Here's a link to 72799 in the Mandolin Archive.

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## Bernie Daniel

> That Charles Johnson one is #72799. After being reparied, it looks well used but does not look like it's been in a flood.


Wonder how it sounds after being repaired?  I would think that the story of the reconstruction of that mandolin might make interesting reading -- wonder if its been written up?  Do you know did the repairs?

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## Chris Oliver

You guys don't know what you're missing... I should have bid more than $10 less than the final price... of course that sort of recursive statement could have really bad results. The last instrument I restored (under water rescue) turned out to be one of the best sounding I've heard. 1949 D-28

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## Bernie Daniel

> You guys don't know what you're missing... I should have bid more than $10 less than the final price... of course that sort of recursive statement could have really bad results. The last instrument I restored (under water rescue) turned out to be one of the best sounding I've heard. 1949 D-28


Whozeers!  Awesome restoration!  Just wonderful to be able to follow those photo of your work as you proceeded -- must be a great feeling of satisfaction when that job was done. Of course that was a much more valuable instrument than that F-5G mandolin.  It sold on auction for a bit under $1K.

I cannot think of anyone any more qualified then you to answer this question.  I you were asked to restore that water damaged Gibson mandolin how much would you have to charge? (given what you can see on the pictures that is).

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## Chris Oliver

Bernie, Thanks for the kind words. That Martin turned out better than ever expected given it was under-water and semi-destroyed by another 'luthier' at some point. It truly does have a wonderful sound and has some former owner mojo.

As for that F5-G. There are a lot of if's.  But, if the neck and fretboard are not swollen or twisted you are really only looking at possibly replacing the back and re-gluing the tone bars... I am assuming they loosened... maybe not.  Considering they didn't loosen the strings, I guess the top is under some strain but the sides look like they have warped to accommodate the pressure.

So... replace back (or just strip and re-glue). cr@p shoot really comes in to play if the sides do not return to original shape to get neck angle right. No back bindings... so probably it would need to be bound to make it look right after re-gluing. Sunburst the back and sides, shoot with lacquer and buff. Setup and done.  $1500... if the top needs to be refinished add $300.

If I were doing it for myself, it would be worth it... maybe...probably not. If someone else asked me to do it... I would really have to have it in hand for an estimate. I would rather build them a new one!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Bernie Daniel

Interesting, thanks.  If, when actually examined closely, the mandolin is about as you assess it the buyer might make out on this purchase.  Assume that even if the top needs some work and you had to charge ~$2K to fix it up then the buyer would have a F-5G for ~$3K -- not too bad.  Probably a little less than you would typically pay for a good used -- albeit un-drowned one.  I'd suggest a typical used price of $3,200 - $3,800 for one in decent shape?

My big concern would have been that the sides not longer mate up to the back and/or top plate and you mentioned that.  I guess if I had a shop it might be a fun challenge to try and restore it.

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## barney 59

It seems to me that there must be a tremendous number of amateur luthier  hobbyists out there.  I follow ebay auctions in search of possible restorations and some of the most wrecked stuff sells for unrealistically high prices, full complete and playable examples of the same instrument could be had for close to the price that some basket cases go for. People with a hobby aren't really concerned with the cost and the time involved isn't necessarily a factor,the longer the better maybe. When something shows up that is kind of cool but really a mess there seems to be a group that gets particularly excited about that and will pay a premium for an interesting challenge. This waterlogged Gibson would be a great project for someone who didn't really care what it cost or what it's value would be once completed. All said and done the cost of rebuilding this mandolin is probably cheaper than golf.

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## Chris Oliver

Bernie,
My guess is that if an amateur bought this mando, it will get some work done in a few months, mostly just taken apart. Then, it will be remembered when it is in the way of putting the hose away next winter, and possibly gotten rid of in a few years, in a big cardboard box, for a 20 bucks at a yard sale. On the other hand... 

I just hope if someone does fix it up that they post some of the restoration and completion photos in this or a new thread. I'd love to see this guy in a year playing some awesome version of Soldier's Joy... while in the background, a video of its guts are displayed being put back together.

Some instruments are worth putting back together for monetary purposes, some for educational reasons, some for historical reasons and some for diabolical reasons (think Christine, evil jealosy mojo). 





> It seems to me that there must be a tremendous number of amateur luthier  hobbyists out there.  ... All said and done the cost of rebuilding this mandolin is probably cheaper than golf.


Barney.... I agree and yes... totally cheaper than most outdoor hobbies these days.  If I had bought a mandolin like this before I started building instruments, I would have had a great Gibson F5 with all the trimmings by the time I was done, no matter the expense and time. For many, this would be enough... having a great instrument to bang around on that you restored yourself. Me, being an overachiever, would have done this project as a hobbyist and then started an additional additional [sic] career...  :Crying:

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## Schlegel

That was pretty much the motivation behind me buying an a-40 with a broken dovetail joint off craigslist.  It was under $300, though, and a lot less work than this will need.

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## anserg

> You guys don't know what you're missing... I should have bid more than $10 less than the final price... of course that sort of recursive statement could have really bad results. The last instrument I restored (under water rescue) turned out to be one of the best sounding I've heard. 1949 D-28


Chris, how much will you take for the restoraion work of this F5-G?

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## woodwizard

After seeing that amazing Martin guitar work by Chris Oliver, (thanks for sharing),  I have no doubt that Chris could bring that F5G back to life again.  If that ever happens it sure would be nice to see the progress pics as it went along.

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## anserg

> After seeing that amazing Martin guitar work by Chris Oliver, (thanks for sharing),  I have no doubt that Chris could bring that F5G back to life again.  If that ever happens it sure would be nice to see the progress pics as it went along.


I havn`t got it from the USA yet. When I have it, I`ll post some good sharp pictures before the restoration project begins. Now it is at my friend`s in the USA ( banjo builder)  and he will ship it to me along with some other stuff I bought.
He said the things are not so bad as you think guys. There are some good violn luthuers in Moscow. I hope they will help me with operations I can`t do myself.

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## Chris Oliver

> I havn`t got it from the USA yet. When I have it, I`ll post some good sharp pictures before the restoration project begins. Now it is at my friend`s in the USA ( banjo builder)  and he will ship it to me along with some other stuff I bought.
> He said the things are not so bad as you think guys. There are some good violn luthuers in Moscow. I hope they will help me with operations I can`t do myself.


Sorry, I totally missed the additional posts on this topic.

Congratulation on your purchase... I think.  :Smile:  

I believe I 'guestimated' around $1800 for a restore with several dependencies. I would definitely have to have the mandolin in hand for inspection and have a chance to talk about expectations and realities before locking in a price.

Let me know if you want me to take a look... I'll do that for free (you cover shipping). Just send me a pm if you want.

Otherwise, I hope it is in better shape than it looked in the photos. And, I (and others) would love to see it again during and after a restoration.

Good luck!
chris

 :Mandosmiley:

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## anserg



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Bernie Daniel, 

Chris Gray, 

John Soper, 

Larry S Sherman, 

William Smith

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## Bernie Daniel

Just wondering when you completed the rebuild? The last post was January 2011?  In any case, your work was certainly was successful - the restored mandolin looks great.

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## mojocaster

> the tailpiece looks fine.



Best thing I read all day. Thank you for the chuckles on a day when chuckles were not in my inventory!

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## William Smith

> Wonder how it sounds after being repaired?  I would think that the story of the reconstruction of that mandolin might make interesting reading -- wonder if its been written up?  Do you know did the repairs?


This Loar was put back together very well from a guy in Florida-I passed on buying it but sent the info to a friend who got her and it is an AMAZING Loar F-5 I knew it would be being the only one signed on that day, my friend got a deal of the century on this one and is very pleased I sent him the info on where it was also it as just finished touched up/French polished, never refinished in the 50's like it says in the archive! Its a HOSS!

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## anserg

This baby has been waiting for restoration for 8 years. And now I feel myself like a traitor. I gave it to my friend at least. Now he has Gibson F5 mandolin, the only in in the hole Russia. It sounds great and looks great too. The restoration was done by russian luthier in Moscow just for $500.

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## anserg

02

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Chris Gray

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## anserg

03

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Chris Gray, 

Northwest Steve, 

Rush Burkhardt, 

Verne Andru

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