# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Compulsive purchase- Flatiron 1N

## atetone

I woke up from a nap this afternoon, searched ebay and did a Buy-It-Now on a 1994 Flatiron 1N with hardcase.
About 10 minutes later when I fully woke up I realized what I had done, it dawned on me that I really don't know much about them. This MAS thing is killing me. I am doing it in my sleep now.
So,,, since I now own one can anyone tell me anything about them? 
Please, please, say that I didn't make a bad mistake.
No,,,,, just tell me the truth. I can take it.

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## Steve L

These are one of the nicer flat-top oval holes you can get. They tend to be surprisingly loud and play quite nicely. If you decide you don't like it, you should be able to move it on the classifieds pretty easily. They are really good for Celtic playing.

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## John Flynn

They are great, really. They are a thin flat-top, "frying pan" style in the Gibson Army/Navy tradition. They tend to have a good volume and a very clear tone that is very strong on the treble end. That high end sound can come across as "tinny" when played solo with bright strings, although it cuts through nicely in jams. If you want to tone it down for solo play, T-I strings might be a good choice.

Flatiron 1-N's are light weight and fun to play. The blues player, "Lil Rev" plays one as his main mando. Enjoy!

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## fatt-dad

I have silk and steel GHS strings on mine and it plays real nice. You should be happy with your new 1N. Mine is on my not-for-sale list (along with too many others) - ha.

fatt-dad

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## Bowzette

I have one and like it a lot. It projects and "cuts" in an old time jam session. It is not a bluegrass instrument and does not have a deep, woody low end. Other than trying to sound like Bill Monroe, you should be happy with it. IMHO it is a great buy in the used mando market.

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## atetone

Thanks folks, I am getting more comfortable with it now.
I had always liked the look of them. Kind of plain, but functional looking.
I had just not done any research into them. Seems like it is worth a tryout for sure. #Thanks

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## pickinNgrinnin

I also have a Flatiron 1N and it is one of my all time favorites. I bought it sight unseen and was surprised how loud it played. A very comfortable neck to boot. I would never dream of selling it - unless I ran across a really nice 2N or 3N # 

Extra sweet tone and the fit and finish is flawless. The simplicity of the design is classic.

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## racuda

Congratulations! My 1N is also one of my favorites. Very user-friendly. I like TI Mittels on it. 

I saw that eBay listing. You got a good deal. You could make a nice profit if you wanted to re-sell.

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## atetone

Hey Racuda,, I will trade you straight across for that scratched up old mando that you got #with that guys aunts' intitials scribbled all over it.

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## bratsche

Hey, I did the same thing as you when I happened upon a 1N *mandola* on eBay last year with an outrageously low Buy-it-Now (even less than yours, but a gig bag instead of a hard case). I figured "Hit that button now, ask questions later". It wouldn't last long otherwise. Well, that was one of my lucky days. It is really a great sounding and playing instrument, and one I have no plans to sell. Of my three mandolas, it is usually the "go to" one lately. It even has a fair amount of figure in the wood for the lesser-appointed model.

Now, for all you Flatiron 1N owners with better eyes than mine - I see a second label on the inside, way up under the neck, but can't make out everything it says. Can anyone help me out here? (I assume the mandolins have it too).

bratsche

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## pickinNgrinnin

The second label you are referring to mentions using light gauge strings. I'll have to give it a second look when I get home for it might say more than that.

I love this little 1N! If you see one of these floating around, pounce upon it quickly. You will have no regrets

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Parker135

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## pickinNgrinnin

The 2nd label states the Mandolin is made from solid woods and should not be exposed to extreme temperatures and humidity. It also lists the recommended string gauges for each string. Bruce Weber told me to use light gauge strings on the 1N.

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## bratsche

Thanks, pNg -

The only thing "wrong" with my mandola when I got it was that the previous owner was using really heavy strings (probably D'Addario). They were completely stifling the potential tone! I switched immediately to GHS light mandola strings, and the tone has been opening up ever since. Guess I'm lucky that nothing warped. As for the first part, I live in South Florida, the land of extreme heat and humidity, and I wouldn't take the instrument outdoors ever in the summertime (which lasts most of the year!)

bratsche

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## atetone

So,, does the label give the suggested string guages, or does it just say light strings?

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## Bowzette

mine suggest the actual gagues, the "G" is 36 and the "E" is 10. Martin has a pack with these gagues. I may determine if the TI mediums are approximately equal to the Martins and try a set of them next time. The "E" string with the Martins is loud, cuts like a lazer, but seems "harsh" to me.

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## pickinNgrinnin

The label lists the following string guages:

1st - .010
2nd - .013
3rd - .024
4th - .036

I checked the label this morning and while the Mandolin was out, I had to play it for awhile. Wound up being late for work!  

The tone and volume from this little flat top is amazing

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## atetone

Late for work!!!, yeah me too but here I sit.
Thanks for the string guage info.

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## pickinNgrinnin

atetone-

I checked the ebay sale and you indeed got a great deal on your 1N!! I'm still looking for a hard shell case for mine.

Enjoy the heck out of this one - it's a classic. The Flatiron company has a great history and some of the best Mandolin builders out there today have been associated with the company.

Maybe we need to start a Flatiron 1N/2N/3N thread like the endless BRW thread. Only 26 more pages to go. We need to get Scotti one of these 1N's  

OK...you better get to work

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brobmarketing

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## fatt-dad

So, is the goal to add more and more postings to this thread and see how many pages we can get - ha? I am preparing to get my 1N out and look for this sticker that tells me what strings to use. I will report back with serial number and sticker details. There, that will add another posting.

f-d

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## atetone

Well it looks like I might be waiting a while before I can post any thoughts on mine. The vendor has not received the money order yet even though I mailed it priority post on Monday.
I hate the waiting part.

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## bratsche

> So, is the goal to add more and more postings to this thread and see how many pages we can get - ha?


Sure, fatt-dad, why not? We don't need no steenkin' BRWs anyway.  :Wink:  

FWIW, the mandola string recommendations are .012 .021 .032 and .049. Not exactly the same as the GHS set I'm using, but close enough.

Does anyone else's Flatiron N1 smell as nice as this mandola? I've never had an instrument smell so fragrant, other than my all-mahogany MidMo M-11 (which I had to sell). It surprises me for a maple/spruce instrument. My MidMo M-2 doesn't smell like this!

bratsche

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## Dan Adams

I've been watching this post and I hope the Gibson Flatirons are as nice as the originals! I own a Flatiron 2M, and it is the loudest mandolin in the herd. I hope Gibson held the line true to its founders! I have a friend with a 3M, and it iw the sweetest maple mandolin!!!  I hope yours holds true to the tradition, if so, it is a great investment. What about the !N in the classified ads?
God Luck, Dan

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## bratsche

So now I'm confused - how do you know if you have an *original*?? Are the Gibson-made ones labeled "Flatiron" or "Gibson"?

I see a Cadet in the classifieds, BTW, but not a 1N...

bratsche

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## fatt-dad

O.K. I am being sucked in. My 1N is serial number 84052747. All I can divine from it is that it was made in 1984. Others seem to read more into the serial numbers for Flatiron, but I remain confused. What I do know is that it was made prior to Gibson's purchase of the Flatiron Mandolin company.

My 1N does not have a truss rod or truss rod cover (wonder why I added the last part, eh). It does have the sticker that references the string gauges. Mine says recommended string gauges, 0.010, 0.013, 0.024, and 0.036. That said, I have GHS silk and steels on it, which have less string tension but heavier gauge diameters (especially on the wound courses. (I like the silk and steel strings and use them also on my A-3.)

My mandolin came in a hard shell case with orange-colored plush lining, but the more remarkable thing about the case it has alot of clasps. For such a compact case, there are five clasps and the two hinges - go figure.

When Gibson bought the Flatiron Mandolin company, they also made the 1N, 2N, 3N, etc mandolins. At some point (don't ask me) truss rod covers with adjustible truss rods showed up. (I can't be sure whether the pre-Gibson 2 or 3Ns had truss rods though.) I have never played one of these, I have just read descriptions and seen classified listings.

When Gibson ended the Flatiron line and moved to Nashville, they (apparently) continued to make a "flatiron style" mandolin. It looks just like the 1N, but has no markings on the headstock, other than a truss rod cover that says "Gibson". Under the truss rod cover there is nothing but wood.

The Post-Flatiron, Gibson Nashville 1N style mandolin is a toy. There is no solid wood to be had, there are no decals, the bracing is installed like lumber, etc. I had one, that played o.k., but it was not long in my collection. I sold it for what it was and got $200.00 in a gig bag. In another few years it may be worth $180.00 - who knows.

I sent a message to Gibson on their version of the 1N and they indicated that it was made at Opry Mills as a tourist item for the souvenier shop, not so much for the mandolin player. I got the one that I had when they donated it to a fundraiser, which I purchased it from. Nothing sneeky on their part, no problems here either, but also no replacement or alternate to the 1N. Note also that the Opry version of the 1N does not bear any of the warrantee decals and is sold with a 90 day warrantee (according to Gibson).

So there, now we may have something to talk about, but I may not have much more to add. Other than to say, one of these days, I may need a refret on mine and the last guy either took off or wore off the neck finish. All I know is it's seen lots of wear and is fun to play.

fatt-dad

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Mandolinian

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## atetone

A couple of years ago I almost made the mistake of buying one of the "toy" pancake mandolins. The seller made it quite plain that it was not a very good mando but I of course figured that I knew more than him and that he didn't know what he was talking about.
Well, it turned out that he ended up educating me to the fact that it was a knockoff of the Flatiron being sold by Gibson at the Gibson Showcase.
He told me that he was told they were made in Asia.
Since then I have seen a couple of more of them around. They are a sort of orange to brown sunburst.
You have to be careful of these or you will be in for a big disappointment.
I am a big fan of Gibson because they treated me royally when I had a problem with my A5L. Charlie and Big Joe went above and beyond what I expected from them and were fabulous about the whole thing.
I wish that Gibson hadn't started selling these copies though. Even though Gibson is not trying to trick people with this, someone is going to mistakenly get burned on one of these on the used market.

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## pickinNgrinnin

Nice job fatt-dad! Mine is a 96 Signature Series 1N and it has a truss rod and an truss rod cover # This 96 is a Gibson era Flatiron and it is the only pancake style Flatiron I've seen or played. Could be among the last made in Montana before they moved to Nashville. 

Flatiron was around in the early 80's then in 87, they were bought out by Gibson. In December of 96, Gibson moved the operation. 

FD- I would venture to say that yours was made on May 27 of 84 amd the 47th 1N made that year.

The neck profile on the 1N is very comfortable to play. I believe it may be a tad bit wider at the nut than my Yellowstone.

The Cadet is from the Performer Series. Supposedly the Performer Series was Flatiron's entry line, then Signature Series, Artist Series and Master.

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## bratsche

Do the first 2 numbers of the serial no. denote the year made? If so, then my mandola is a '96 Signature Series also.

You guys know about these pages, right? Mine is just like the natural mandola on the lower right picture here, except that it doesn't have the tailpiece pictured, the decal is light colored, rather than dark, and someone has stuck on a clear pickguard (ugh). Still can't complain, because the sound is great, and so was the price!

I can't believe Gibson put a truss rod cover over the plain wood on their toy replicas. Is that a tacky touch, or what? LOL

bratsche

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## atetone

Bratsche, obviously you like your 1N mandola. What other ones do you have that you are comparing it to and how does it stack up? 
Are your other ones carved or flatops and how different are they in tone, loudness etc..?

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## fatt-dad

O.K. so now we are on our second page. I also like the neck profile on the 1N. Here is what is slated for today. Considering that the silk and steels are the wrong gauge, I am going to restring with medium lights. As I was playing today, I noticed that the action seemed high up the neck and as there is no adjustment, I figure that with the lighter gauge strings, I will have somewhat easier time noting up there. So, report to follow.

Regarding the Flatiron link, I have seen that before. It is a good one. I have only great things to say about my Flatirons, however neither are from the Gibson era. That said, my A5-1 is a great mandolin (I know that everybody says that about their favorite mandolin, but I hear this from people who are playing their favorite mandolins - ha).

Fatt-dad

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## fatt-dad

I hate to post and then post again, but there is a 1N on ebay with 2 days remaining, no reserve and at $102.50 right now. Who knows where it will end up, but interesting - eh?

Put my GHS phosphor bronze med lights today (as specified) and all is well. It is interesting how different it plays as the silk and steels were larger diameter even though they do not have much tension. The medium lights have made the playability much better and the sound is real good too!

f-d

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## atetone

fatt-dad, where did you see that one on ebay? What catagory? I can't seem to find it.

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## pickinNgrinnin

I couldn't find it either. The seller may have ended the auction.

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## fatt-dad

Go to the main ebay page and type flatiron 1N into the search. I'll be there and it's now at $150 with one day left.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

OK. I see it. I was doing a search for a Flatiron Mandolin and it does not come up. You have to add 1N to get there 

There is a 1N a 2MB and a 3K all for sale on Ebay. The 2MB has some killer Bird's Eye on the back side.

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## fatt-dad

So maybe I'll steal the 2mb, ha - my first Gibson-era Flatiron. Then again, I won't get my hopes up, I really do need to sell some pac-rim for the present.

f-d

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## racuda

> Hey Racuda,, I will trade you straight across for that scratched up old mando that you got #with that guys aunts' intitials scribbled all over it.


I appreciate the offer, but you wouldn't believe what I went through to get that mando - and besides, the scribbled initials are very faint on the back. I don't even notice anymore.

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## atetone

Racuda, I was just kidding you about the scratches. I am sure you did go through a lot of trouble to get it. That's why I backed out. Didn't think he would deliver.
For those of you that don't know, Racuda picked up an A2Z cheap. It was a "throw in" on a deal for an old non-descript bowlback that the owner thought was the real desirable mandolin.
Great story. 
Sorry to go off topic.

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## pickinNgrinnin

OK folks-

The 1N on Ebay sold last night for (get this) $157.00! The auction closed at midnight. As I watched it end, I thought, why am I not bidding on this? I was gearing up for a possible bidding war with ole8string! Never mind the fact that I already have a sweet 96 1N. I suppose I could have used another one to keep in my office. How bad does that sound? We may never see one go for this price again. It did have some minor issues with it but heck, for $157.00 I would have, could have should have...sigh

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## fatt-dad

Feeling your pain - the one that I paid $300.00 for had some issues with it also. How do you deal with the problem, when you have too many mandolins (heck we could get pages of postings over that statement), some of which you may never make a dime on and then comes along a mandolin that you could make a $100 bucks on? How can I communicate the wisdom of buying another mandolin to anyone outside of this newsgroup (i.e., my wife)? What is it about kids, shoes, cars, etc that make them more important then more mandolins - ha?

Oh well, where did we start here - oh yeah, someone picked up a 1N on an impulse. I can only hope that whoever bought the 1N last night enjoys it.

f-d

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## atetone

Yes, I watched that one close too and wondered why I didn't go after it, but since I have one in the mail on its way to me and have never tried one before, I resisted.
That is cheap though even with the issues that it had.
Oh well, you can't have them all.

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## Tom C

On Ebay there is currently a 3K and a 2MB. How do these compare to the N1.
These were made in 92 and 96.

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## fatt-dad

Oh no, someone else headed for the 2MB. I may have to bow out, but you have to continue posting on this thread.

Unless I'm mistaken (we can discuss if I am), the 1N and the 2N (or in this case the 2MB) are very similar with the 2 having different wood (in the case of the one on ebay, birds-eye maple) and the 2 having the adjustible truss rod. I'm not really sure, but I figure if I make some claims, someone who really knows will set the record straight - ha.

fatt-dad

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## Tom C

I shouldn't be a threat unless it's alast minute thing.

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## Bowzette

have you seen the one just posted in the classifieds?

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## Tom C

Whatdoes the "C" mean? Cedar top?

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## pickinNgrinnin

Good question. I've not heard of this type of a Flatiron having a Cedar top. The one in the classifieds has some very nice looking flame! 

Welcome to this thread. We only have 28 some pages to go to catch up to the BRW thread

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## Tom C

<span style='color:purple'>My other mando is a Flatiron performer F I can't say enough about. But I would consider a relatively inexpensive round 'ole Flatiron mando for a different tone.</span>

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## fatt-dad

Today's report. See the following:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....03&rd=1

This is a "Gibson" plywood with truss rod cover (truss rod not included).

Please welcome the fellow asking about the "3" in the classifieds. Hopefully s/he will find us here. That said, does anybody know the real difference between the "1", "2" and "3" series. I think we figured the letters stand for the wood or finish, something like that.

f-d

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## Tom C

<span style='color:orange'>...And here is another Flatiron. This is a</span> CH-1

<span style='color:orange'>......Mmmm Orange</span>

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## Tom C

<span style='color:green'>... Or get the orig Gibson Army-Navy</span> Gibson DY


<span style='color:green'>...Mmmmm Lime</span>

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## Jim M.

All of those flat Flatirons had adjustable truss rods. All had spruce tops, no cedar. The difference between 1, 2 & 3 was wood and finish details. 
 #1 = Plainer woods, no binding or rosette, rosewood fingerboard
 #2 = Fancier maple (koa was an option) binding but no rosette, ebony fingerboard
 #3 = Same as 2 but had binding and rosette

I don't know all the letters but some are:
 #MB = Birdseye maple
 MC = Curly maple
  N = Natural finish
 #CH = "Chocolate" finish
 # C = "Cherry" finish (I think)
 # K = Koa

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## fatt-dad

Jim M,

Thanks for getting us to page 3. Regarding the "1" series, the early ones did not have adjustible truss rods. Maybe when Gibson took over the factory they became standard, but my 1N from '84 does not have an adjustible truss rod - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Very interesting description on the meanings of the numbers and letters - thanks again.

fatt-dad

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## Jim M.

You're right, sorry, I should have specified that those were post-Gibson takeover. One of the options available was f-holes. Has anyone seen those on the flattops? Anyone have a Flatiron mandola they want to sell?

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## Tom C

<span style='color:blue'>The 1992 3K on Ebay does not have a Truss Rod. The 1996 2MB does. Which would you choose?</span>

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## Jim M.

Personally I wouldn't worry about lack of adjustable truss rod. Those are well-built instruments, and there are plenty of non-adjustable truss rod Gibson A's that have survived many years. I'd buy the koa because I like the sound and would want to add something other than maple to my herd. I'm not bidding on it, so don't worry about me.

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## Tom C

I have festivals and the suymposium coming up so I can hold off also unless they really stay that low in price.

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## lucho

I own a 1988 2MW and it doesn't have an adjustable truss rod, so I think adjustable truss rods showed up years after the Gibson take over. BTW, MW stand for wavy maple. I also own a 1984 3K OM and despite size considerations when compared to other maple back instruments.... tone could be nice but volume lacking. So if you are planning to use a mando in sessions I would suggest the maple back mando. 
BTW, I am also interested in Army Navy style mandolas.... Flatiron didn't make many so they are more than rare. Bratsche's mandola is one of the few that I discovered in ebay... too late to get it. So if you want a AN mandola, options are very few, Sawchyn in Canada make some nice copies as AN models for near Ca$900... #I have heard good things about sawchyn instruments... Has anybody tried them?...
salu2

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## bratsche

atetone - all three of my mandolas are flat top/back instruments with a round or oval hole, as well as all being made from spruce and maple. I also have a Troubador Gervaise (discussed in a different thread) and a Sawchyn Beaver Tail (hi, lucho! - this will interest you too!) The Gervaise, while it has a great tone, is not yet living up to its potential, because it still has incomplete setup issues that I haven't had time to attend to (faulty intonation due to too high zero fret). The Sawchyn is absolutely perfect in every way! I love it! And it is very, very similar, both in sound and feel, to the Flatiron. I was eyeing Flatirons before a member of the Cafe offered to sell me the Sawchyn. The Flatiron, however, is the one I grab first, for a couple of reasons, nothing to do with sound. One, it has already received its first few scratches, and I dread the day that I mar the Sawchyn for the first time! And two, its fretboard is not bound - while I've not yet had to have fret work done on any of my instruments, I'd hate to wear the frets out on the Sawchyn from repeated practicing to learn pieces well, knowing that it would be the more costly one to re-fret due to its bound fretboard! But they really are very similar. The Sawchyn is a "deluxe" though, and a little fancier - radiused ebony fretboard, the binding, and some inlaid rings around the soundhole. The Gervaise is somewhat different, with its bigger body, smaller soundhole and shorter scale. But they're all nice...

bratsche

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## pickinNgrinnin

OHhhhI should have bought the 1N that sold for $157.00 # 

The Cadets appear to be the same instruments with a different finish. Also, I've noticed the 2N's have binding on the top only.

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## Dan Adams

The 3MC in the classifieds is a really nice mandolin. I've played it a few times. Its beautiful to look at, and has a nice rounded tone. For the condition that one is in, I think it is a great price. My 2M in from 83, early Flatiron, and is a great Celtic mandolin. No truss rod in the early years though. I hope somebody local, here on the cafe, picks the one up in the classifieds.

Slim pickins on those Flatirons, Dan

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## atetone

Well, my 1N arrived all in one piece.
I have to say that I was very taken aback when I opened the rather small case.
This mando is very small!!! I didn't realize just how small these things are.
There is nothing small about the sound that jumps right out of it though.
It is kind of mystifying how that kind of sound comes out of that little box.
I look at it and my brain says "tiny skinny box with way too much bracing. Hardly any room left for a soundwave to even move around in there",,, but the sound just jumps right out at you and is startlingly loud.
It doesn't seem possible but,, there it is.
Amazing. I find myself looking at it and thinking "how did they do that??"
Anyway, I took the rusty strings, bridge, tuners and tailpiece off it and cleaned everything really well and put it back together and strung it up with
D'Addario J62s and then whomped on it for a couple of hours.
I suspect that this mando has not been played for a long time.
It was very tight at first and would not stay in tune, but I expected that.
This mando came from Florida to me here in Western Canada so it will probably take a while before it acclimatizes.
Either it is starting to loosen up or I am getting more used to it but I am now expecting it to improve greatly over the next fews days.
It's pretty good already.
I will keep you posted on the progress.

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## fatt-dad

Hey, my 1N came from Canada to Richmond, Virginia.

Great to hear your story. I was playing mine last night and had similar thoughts on size and sound. Amazing, eh?

f-d

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## fatt-dad

O.K., so here I do it again - posting after a post. Having just scanned ebay, I note the following. The plywood "Gibson Flatiron" is up to $300.00, the 2MB is under $200.00, nobody is the least bit interested in the 3 for $600.00 and there are two KM-11 (Kalamazoo pancake) that are begging in the $200 to $300.00 range (another great flat-top oval hole mandolin. For the under $300 market, the 2mb and the KM-11s are the way to go (IMHO).

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

Hey All-

How do you attach a strap to your Flatiron? A strap button on the heel? Tied off to the headstock? Don't use a strap?

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## fatt-dad

I tie my strip of rawhide around the headstock, going under the strings and between the tuners. What I actually to is get three rawhide shoelaces, braid them together and then end the braid with one sticking out for tying on to the end pin and also around the headstock.

f-d

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## Bowzette

has anyone played a koa model?

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## mandomick

I'm about 20 minutes from the Cadet in the classifieds and bought my 1st mando 4 yrs ago from the seller.(family had a great small town music store)

Where do these cadets fit in with the models discussed here? The $595 asking price seems high but I don't have a clue as to what I'm looking at.

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## fatt-dad

Herein lies the death of the Flatiron 1N thread. No match for "thinking about a BRW". Alas, on to other topics.

f-d

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## RolandTumble

Hey, if you want quantity, it takes time...(or is that quality?).

I just found the thread, so I'm only now chiming in. I own a 2M, serial 8105921 (with the five-latch HSC). I love it, but it's actually not my go-to-first mandolin (right now--kinda goes in cycles). It _is_ on my not-for-sale list, though.

I'd mentioned, in passing, to Ken Cartwright that I wanted one.... Years later I walked into his shop & he said "There's your Flatiron." I'd just received a prob'ly-teens Vega (flat back, two point) from an eBay purchase (this one is my current main axe), so I was kind of strapped for cash. I didn't even want to play it, 'cause I knew I'd be hooked. I failed to resist temptation, and put it on layaway before I left....

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## pickinNgrinnin

Where can one find a hard shell case for a Flatiron 1N???

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## fatt-dad

Call TKL in Oilville, Virginia and they may have something that works. I did some research on Flatiron cases, and I think that they used Harptone cases. TKL bought Harptone and was in the process of moving the forms from the Harptone shop to Virginia. Whether they did it or not is unclear.

Good luck,

fatt-dad

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## pickinNgrinnin

F-D
I was thinking that TKL might have something. I'll give them a call tomorrow.

How about the BRW thread getting shut down! About time #

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## atetone

The hardshell case that came with mine is definately made for the mandolin.
Very form fitted. Snug as a bug.
I assume that it was a factory supplied case. It's a pretty good one.

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## fatt-dad

Here is the TKL phone number in Oilville, Virginia - 804-749-8300. I have no real opinion on the BRW thread, as I never made an attempt to read through the personal chat to learn about the BRW mandolin. I guess if there are cafe members that get some enjoyment discussing a "mandolin-related" topic I do not see the harm with it continuing. But then, it's not my web page - ha.

f-d

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## racuda

atetone, I was wondering..since you have had your 1N for a couple of weeks now what do you think?

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## Nathan Sanders

I have been reading a lot of the posts about the Flatiron 1N. They are awesome. I bought mine in 1993. And it was definitely the sound that sold me. Later I bought a hardshell case for it from Elderly. For a strap I bought a set of shoe laces, actually for lace up boots, and tied an end to the headstock and the other end to the strap button. Mostly I've used D'Addario J74 strings.

My 1N is not for sale, however, I just acquired a 1994 1CH that is for sale. It is in excellent shape and it has a hard shell case. I will have pictures available very soon.

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## Nathan Sanders

Pictures are now available of the Flatiron 1CH:

1994 Flatiron 1CH

Thanks!

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## fatt-dad

Please post here if you are able to get $650.00 for your 1ch. It sounds ambitious, but for the patient seller, it may be the right price. I would like to know if you are successful. When I bought my 1N (pre-gibson), I paid almost $400.00 for it. In actual fact, I think I overpaid for it, in that there is substantial pick wear on the top, which some looser added stain to to blend the colors. Bad idea and bad job all rolled into a few brush strokes. Also, the finish on the neck was removed and there is some fret wear. So I knew that I was buying some blemish along with wear. I also factored in the fact that it was a 1984 flatiron, which offset some of the earlier sins.

So, is a mint 1ch (gibson) right for $650.00? I'd like to know.

Good luck.

fatt-dad.

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## pickinNgrinnin

FD-

I was pretty lucky to pick up my 96 1N for $300.00. It is in very good condition - just a few dings and a few finish checks. I'd be interested to see if this 1CH sells for the asking price. More from a curiosity factor though. I doubt I would sell my 1N - unless a very fine 2N or 3N fell my way

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## Nathan Sanders

Thanks for the interest! I will keep you informed of how the sell goes. If you are interested, I have it listed on ebay at the moment:

Flatiron 1CH on EBAY

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## Nathan Sanders

Well, my ebay listing for the Flatiron 1CH just ended without reaching my Reserve price, which was lower than what I have been asking for it other places, including my ad on Mandolin Cafe. So, the 1CH is still for sale. I'd still like to have $650.00 for it, but I will consider other offers. Thanks!

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## fatt-dad

Dear 1N Newsgroup,

Does anybody have a reference to the most recent "list" (i.e., not street) prices for the various Flatiron "pancakes"? I guess that would be somewhere in the 1998 or 1999 range, you know what did the 1N, 1CH, 2N, etc. list for?

Using the list price, we could then figure that the actual wholesale price would have been about half. That to me would be the maximum price one could expect for a pancake today (excluding other factors - i.e., bad finish touchups, rough shape, missig the case, etc.)

(can you tell that I am an engineer in my other life?)

fatt-dad

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## pickinNgrinnin

FD-

Paula Jean Lewis at Sound to Earth/Weber would (likely) be able to dig up some list prices on the flat-tops Flatirons.

It seems to me - based upon ebay prices and the cafe classifieds, that these little Mandolins have held their value over the years. I too would be curious to find out what they listed for.

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## Nathan Sanders

They have held their value. They are great sounding mandolins. I do know a year or two ago, a local guitar store, which deals in new and vintage, Martin, Gibson, and other such stuff, had a very nice condition 1N with a price on it of $650. I forget what year it was built, but it was a Bozeman era and in excellent shape. I checked back later on it and they had sold it for what they were asking.

I acquired a 1N last year from an individual for a couple of hundred. The label inside said something like built for some person, by the Gibson Nashville folks. It was pretty plain, did not have the glossy finish and no name on the peghead, but it did say Gibson inside. I think it may have had Gibson on the truss rod cover. Anyway, it sounded and played just great like it should. I ended up selling it on EBAY and doubled my money.

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## pickinNgrinnin

The flat-top Mandolins made in Nashville should not be confused/compared to the ones that were made in Montana. The Nashville made ones were more toy like or novelty items. The ones made in Montana were the real deal - pre Gibson and post Gibson, did not matter on this series. Lots of folks talk about pre and post Gibson with the Flatiron line but IMO, the pre/post did not matter in regard to these flat-tops. Essentially the same people were making them during the Montana years.

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## fatt-dad

FYI,

Here is an ebay auction with a $500.00 "buy it now" for a 1983, pre-Gibson 1N.

f-d

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## JiminRussia

I got a pre-Gibson 1N about two months ago and paid what I thought at that time was a little too much. Maybe I was just being cheap, I don't know. Today I do not regret it at all. I was fortunate in that I was dealing with an honorable man that had depicted the mandolin very acurately. It had a few issues, but nothing that a re-humidifyng, a seam repair and a bridge lowering didn't cure. Including the repair I have about $560.00 invested and I now don't have any wories about taking my mandolin to jams, festials, traveling, etc. I can leave my Newson F-5 at home when I have any doubts and can still fight of the attacks by the banjo players of the world.
The sound from it using, D'Addario FT74 flat tops is great. It is balanced and very clear. The playability is wonderful and the volume is, well it still amazes me that this little guy can shout so loud. I remember having read that when Gibson took over the factory in 1988 or '89 or thereabouts that they began their serial number run with a "9", Previous to that all of the real Flatirons had numbers begining with "8". BY the way, it came with that five clasp case that you guys were talking about and the fit is as described, perfect, tighter than a knot in green lumber.

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## Nathan Sanders

I still have a 1994 Flatiron 1CH mandolin for sale. Check out the Classifieds on Mandolin Cafe, ad #10211. Thanks!

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## John Jesseph

I need to track down my 1N. I didn't realize they were so in-demand. I could sell any of my other mandos, but the 1N and my Red Diamond are gonna be hard to part with.

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## fatt-dad

Here  is a pre-Gibson 2N on ebay right now under $200.00 with no reserve. It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

Looks like ole8string is back doing some cad bidding.  Have not seen him/her on the Mando trail for awhile. A fast starter but does not have a finishing kick.

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## fatt-dad

Ebay still has a Flatiron 2M(ending up around $478.00)f-dhere's the link) and there is a 2mc or something close in the cafe classifieds for the great price of $375 - fyi.

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## Dan Adams

See the 2MC in the classifieds? Its worth 1/2 again plus what is being asked. That one is a steal!! I certainly hope a Cafe Member grabs that one before its gone! Good Luck! Dan

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## Ipnter

I was going to bid on that 2m at the last minute, but somebody else had the same idea (and a bigger wallet it seems). I'm also looking to buy the 2mc in the classifieds, but I'm not the first in line  . 

In order to make this something more then a "whine about not winning an ebay bid" post, I was wondering if any of you mandolin experts could pontificate about the differences between mid-Missouri mandolins and these flatirons being discussed. I'm wanting to buy my first mandolin and these are the two kinds I've narrowed it down to.

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## fatt-dad

Sig,

Not being an expert, having never played a Mid-Mo and only having the benefit of owning my 1N, all I can say is it is fun to play, gets alot of attention for its tone and volume and seems to be a good "investment". Just be careful not to get a Gibson Flatiron, which is made for tourist sales in Nashville. As long as the label on the inside says Flatiron (whether under the ownership of Gibson or not is immaterial).

Hope I am not confusing you. Let's try again. Flatiron made these pancake mandolins from the early 1980s through the late 1990s. Somewhere in the middle of this time, Gibson bought out the Flatiron Mandolin company. So, there are pre- and post-Gibson FLATIRON mandolins. Somewhere near the turn of the millenium, Gibson moved their mandolin making to Nashville (where they make great mandolins). However, they quit making the pancake as a real instrument. Instead, they make it as a commercial toy with plywood and heavier bracing. The overall quality is not where it used to be. So, enjoy the hunt. If it weren't for the fact that you have narrowned down the hunt to a Flatiron or a Mid-Mo, I would offer you several choices of mandolins in the under $250.00 range.

fatt-dad

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## fatt-dad

New on Ebay - here - if you are interested just track it and see where it sells. So far it is in the $300.00 range.

Also, I noticed that there is a Mid Mo on ebay at the opening bid of $295.00.

(nothing in either of these for fatt-dad - fyi only.)

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Concerning the Flatiron 2MC in the Classifieds....I bought it, if anyone is interested. It's a great mandolin in great shape.

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## pickinNgrinnin

Looks like ole8string is on the ebay prowl again  

F5dude - do you have the 2MC already??

QUOTE: "It's a great mandolin in great shape".

Not to mention at a great price too!

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## jlb

I wonder how folks compare these to the new Weber flattops. I got a bargain-basement deal on an Aspen #2, and while its no banjo killer, I think it is one of my best mandos tone-wise...better tone than any carved top Weber I've ever played.

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## Nathan Sanders

Yes I have the 2mc in my possession.

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## pickinNgrinnin

f5dude- Do you have any pictures you could post?

Tell us more about it!

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## Nathan Sanders

Yes, I do have pictures available now of the Flatiron 2mc. You may view them here:Flatiron 2mc mandolin

Their is a brief description of the mandolin on the page. If you have further questions or want to make an offer let me know.

Thanks

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## sgarrity

Hhhhmmmmmmmmmm.........Looks like I made a mistake. You live and you learn I reckon. I had the 2MC that was in the classifieds. I paid $200 for it about 2 years ago. Since then I bought a Weber Bridger and a Ratliff F5, so the 2MC never got played. I hope someone gets it that will actually use it. I had it listed on the classifieds earlier this year for $400 and no one bought it. Where were all of ya then???   Anyway, it is one fine mandolin and in near perfect shape.

Happy pickin'
Shaun

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## fatt-dad

What's up with that? You get three mandolins and need to sell one? How many years of therapy did it take to get to that point? Whew, I don't know whether I could do that - ha.

I don't think I will sell my 1N, as what else compares to it? The closest thing that I have is my Kalamazoo pancake (circa 1930s), but I think the Flatiron pancake will go down in mandolin history as a great little mandolin.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]I think the Flatiron pancake will go down in mandolin history as a great little mandolin.

The history of the Flatiron pancakes has already been written. They are no longer made and the name is now part of Mandolin history. A great little Mandolin indeed! I can't see selling my 1N unless (like I've said) a killer flame or bird's eye 2N comes along

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## fatt-dad

touche, pNg. . . .

Here is the correction, "the Flatiron pancake is going down in history", or is it, 
"the Flatiron pancake has gone down in history"? Whew!

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Just to update, I just sold the Flatiron 2MC. Thanks!!

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## fatt-dad

Congratulations! Hope you didn't have to go down too far. It is surly a pretty mandolin and I'm sure it will impress the next owner.

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## fatt-dad

Latest good buy from ebay

Incredible that a 2MC went for $316.01. I thought about going higher, but did not hear from the seller during the auction. That can be a bad thing.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

Hey FD-

The Flatiron thread lives on! One of the longest running too  

Geeze that 2MC went for peanuts! Ugly pickguard and some negative feedback may have been a factor. Aside from the PG, it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Nice flame on the back. Heck of a buy. I suppose one could remove the PG. There may be an unsightly tan line left behind depending how long it has been on there.

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## Nathan Sanders

Yep I was watching the 2MC also. I almost bid on it, but I really did not like the pickguard. It probably could be taken off. I am surprised it went for such a low amount.

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## fatt-dad

Yeah, I was concerned about the seller, but at least I received a call from his cohort today. I was the successful (only) bidder on the other mandolin that he sold - for $100.00, I am the proud owner of a 1979 Washburn A-model, f-hole mandolin. Contacted Washburn and they informed me, based on the serial number that it is spruce and maple (solid). I may just need a new beater as my former beater is under the scalple right now, by my own hand.

I really was curious about the 2mc that just sold, as the price was right - I just couldn't get the guy to write me back (I had asked whether it came with the case).

Long live the pancake!

f-d

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## Moose

Hey fatt-dad... "...but I may not have much more to add.." - I think you "contributed" a quite informative post!(seriously) - Let me add that the "pancake" 1N I bought at a flea market for $150.00 impressed me so much I ordered - and bought in 1995 - a new Flatiron F5 Artist Model @ $3100.00!! - Yes! - the older "pancakes"(i.e. all solid wood) WERE great!!

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## fatt-dad

Moose,

Who signed your F5 and how great is it? I have a Flatiron a5-1 that just sings (o.k. I should say it is the best ban%o killer that was ever made and everybody else should just give up). I have only noodled on an F-5 Flatiron once and maybe I was too timid to play it full volume, but I suspect that they are just great (not as good as mine though).

(Have you ever tried the FlatTop 74s on your pancake?)

f-d

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## Moose

Well, herein lies a tale!! - I traded the "pancake" as part of the deal for the F5(incidently, my luthier friend "suggested" I always use Light-guage on the "pancake"..as others have mentioned) - Rest of story...: I unpacked/tuned-up the Flatiron - it had arrived at the music store from Montana ; I tuned it up... ; I "chopped"it(i.e. played several "full/closed" chords..! ; BLAH!!??##... ; I paid for it(3K!!..; the dealer allowed me $100.00 for the "pancake') - I said to myself "self, this machine needs to be played!! -and HARD!..it'll open-up.. Soas to finish this post...- I kept the mando.., played lots of gigs, jams, etc.. - I NEVER liked it!! - it NEVER "opened-up" .. at least not to my satisfaction(and ears). Kept it approx 5 years - the last year under my bed! - Couldn't stand the sound. I called Montana - talked with them..; they asked what's wrong..., send it back and we'll "fix it" - I told them there was nothing "wrong" asthetically and/or workmanship-wise. I finally sold the Flatiron for $1500.00. Wha' was wrong..!?? - I dun'no.. - I missed playing a/any mando ; went to a Guitar Show in Philadelphia(Pa.) - found a HORNER "A" that just blew everything away(people/passerby were stopping to liste- not for my "dexterity/pickin' but the sound of that mando. I bought it for $1400 (Charles Johnson @ Mandolin Hdqrs.) - Love it! - Lost my a**ss ($$$$) on the Flatiron.. but, whatever. This is NOT to flame Flatiron. "Your mileage may vary"... Sorry to ramble. Regards and best wishes in your music. If I can answer or help - from 30+ years of pickin'... just ask. Moose.

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## fatt-dad

Ah, Charles Johnson - local boy. I also live in Richmond, Virginia and am trying to corner the $100 to $200 mandolin market, but Charles, now he has the stuff!

What Moose needs is another pancake. I say the board feeds him a tip (unless you want to buy my Kalamazoo).

That is quite a tale. As I said, I have the greatest Flatiron, but it is an 84 (pre-gibson). So, maybe your story can be blamed to Gibson, who hasn't been bashed for about a week or so - ha.

f-d

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## Moose

In retrospect - and "knowing-what-I-know-now" , your hypothesis is quite plausible(AHEM!!! - COUGH!##) - hee... hee.. - But we ain't gonna' bash Gibson today...are we!??#. I really enjoy -and respect - Charlie and Joe's interest and contributions on this CAFE. What the he****l, it was only....MONEY. Have a good'n.

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## fatt-dad

And in spite of my great pancake, I want a distressed master model (no joke). It is, however, a matter of priorities and money. But one of these days (kids out of college, house paid for, working car, humidor filled to the brim). . . . .

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Interesting story on the Flatiron Moose. As you may have seen in previous posts, I still have a Flatiron 1CH up for sale, but lately I have really been loving the sound of it. I used it at an outdoor gig recently and the thing really put out the sound. I bought it a few months ago and still have not changed the strings. So I really do not know how old the strings are, but the mando really puts out a nice loud sweet sound. It has a decent chop too for a flat top. I also still have my 1N which I bought new in 1993, but it is not for sale.

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## Moose

Hey f5dude.. Don't let that 1N "pancake" go!!! - I would gladly buy back the one I gave "in-trade' - at twice the price the dealer allowed me..($100.00)!### - Thanks for the post.

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## PaulD

I'm fairly new to this forum, but I guess I need to take a closer look at my Flatiron pancake and join in. It's currently sitting in the corner waiting for me to finish filing the frets... it wasn't getting played since I bought my '49 Gibson A, but I _do_ miss that punchy sound that it has! The frets hadn't been touched since it was new and they were _really, really_ grooved at the low end. I've got them leveled, and I bought an LMI fret file last spring to finish the job but I haven't gotten back to it.

It was my first mandolin after starting to learn on a borrowed Kay. In 1981 I was going to buy a $190 Ibanez A model from a local shop, Acoustic Music, but they showed me what (as I recall) was their first Flatiron for $300. I tried it out and it blew me away, and as I knew I was going to be laid off for the summer I figured I'd better do the logical thing and spend the extra money on the Flatiron (less work = more time to play)! 

I'll have to go check the labels... as I recall mine says 1SH for the model, but maybe that's a precursor to the S/N. I also don't recall the sticker with recommended string guages, but I'll have to check on that. I'm pretty sure it was made in '81, maple B&S with light birdseye, spruce top, unadorned. Early on I put better chrome tuners on it, but I have the originals and will probably swap them back and use the chromies on the first instrument I build. As others have stated about their Flatirons, I can't imagine ever parting with it... I could never sell it for what it's worth to me.

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## PaulD

Oh, one more thing... mine was built by Backporch Productions in Bozeman, MT. I don't know when they dropped that designation... anybody???

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## JiminRussia

Would this be a good time to list my pre-Gibson 1N? I have a bad case of MASfor an oval hole F style. Do you think that I could get enough for a decent down payment on say a Eastman MD614? They go for about $1350 delivered when you can find one.

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## fatt-dad

Well I'm fasinated by PaulD's Backporch pancake. Regarding the sticker on the string gauges, check up-inside the sound hole where the body meets the neck. That is where my sticker is (I didn't know it was there until this post began). Is there any reason to believe that Flatiron had the name "Backporch Mandolin" prior to forming as Flatiron? Somebody. . . . . .

Regarding the used price of a pre-gibson 1N, I have no idea other than I gave $300.00 for mine in it's original hard-shell case. But, mine was monkeyed-with by a guy doing finish repair. It also has lots of fret wear. I have quite a finish-mar blemish that is now located where pick rash used to be - some people!

I really had MAS for a f-4 clone also, JiminRussia. I just missed the Washburn that was in the cafe classifieds for $695 earlier this month. What do you have to do, sit here and study the classifieds all the time, whew?

I say keep your 1N, so you can continue to have rights to post on this informative thread.

fatt-dad

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## Nathan Sanders

I've seen the Back Porch sticker before, I think in a pre-Gibson Flatiron. It may even say it in one of mine. I'll check.

Jim, I would probably be interested in buying your Flatiron, but I could not pay you what you want for it. I'd say keep it. They are a great instrument to have on hand.

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## PaulD

> Well I'm fasinated by PaulD's Backporch pancake. Regarding the sticker on the string gauges, check up-inside the sound hole where the body meets the neck. That is where my sticker is (I didn't know it was there until this post began). Is there any reason to believe that Flatiron had the name "Backporch Mandolin" prior to forming as Flatiron? Somebody. . .


To clarify, it still says Flatiron on the head, but the label inside says it was made by "Backporch Productions". I'll drag it out and get pics of the label if people are interested... if nothing else it would stretch this thread out!  I would consider posting a pic of the whole instrument, but the finish looks like $#!@ because I never had a decent case and I used to take the thing everywhere. 

In the mid-80s someone at a jam told me he had been to that "factory" and it was literally somebody's back porch (Weber's?). At least that's what I recall. I never drove to Bozeman to see for myself.

I swear, this thread is going to have me ignoring the house remodeling and the desk I'm building for my SO and filing frets. I guess that shouldn't really take too long now that I've got a fret file. I was using needle files and was having a hard time shaping the fret without scratching up the fingerboard, even with the rosewood masked off. 

I'm also considering refinishing it; I talked to Weber about it's construction a couple years back and he said it would be glued with Titebond (I had some separation to repair) and finished with "Fullerplast" (?). I'm assuming that's a lacquer... maybe I'll ask on the builder's forum. Whatever I do, I'm trying to not screw it up!

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## Ipnter

Jim-
I think you should sell it. Cheaply. To me. 
I hear they're not very good mandolins anyway.  :Wink: 

In the time between when I last posted on this thread and now I ended up buying a mid-mo (m4), it's a great mandolin and I'm having a lot of fun learning on it, but I still kinda wish I'd have held out for one of these to show up at a price I could afford.

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## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]Is there any reason to believe that Flatiron had the name "Backporch Mandolin" prior to forming as Flatiron? Somebody. . .

I'm thinking that is the way it went. Backporch Mandolin - Bozeman. Not sure when Steve Carlson's history began. Flatiron Mandolin & Banjo (mid 80's) Bozeman. Bruce Weber joined the operation in 87. Then down the road a bit to Belgrade. Not sure when they dropped the Banjo handle.

Hey Paula Jean! are you reading this thread???

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## JiminRussia

MIne is an '83 and it doesn't have the "Back Porch Productions" sticker on it but it does have the string guage sticker on it. I remember seeing one that was from well before mine that had that sticker. aybe someone that has the ear of Bruce Webber could wrire and ask him. I've never met him, but I hear that he's a nice fellow and would probably answer a question like that.

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## fatt-dad

Mine is an 83 also. I looked (played) at it last night and there is no reference to "Backporch" anything. Just a side note, I probably hadn't played it in 2 or 3 months, but it stayed in tune. This is amazing to me as there has been such a change in environment over the last few months (i.e., summer to autumn, A/C to heating, etc.). Just a very stable pancake (as they all are I guess).

f-d

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## PaulD

I took a pic of the label, but my camera is not "plug-and-play"ing well with my work computer so I can't post it now. It reads: 

FLATIRON MANDOLIN
Model No. 1SH
Serial No. 8105960
Handmade in Bozeman MT by Backporch Productions

There is no string gauge sticker in it, and since I am the original owner I would have noticed if one fell out. I think I will make a note of the guages posted early in this thread. I wonder if people collapsed the tops on these early models by using heavy strings, or if the string gauges were a recommendation for the best tone.

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## fatt-dad

Maybe I posted this above - I can't recall, but the GHS A-250s have the exact string gauges recommended for the pancake series flatirons. They are a phosphore bronze string and work real well.

JustStrings carries them and they seem to be a good Cafe Sponsor. I just did some business with them and the price and delivery were first rate.

fatt-dad

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## pickinNgrinnin

The label lists the following string guages:

1st - .010
2nd - .013
3rd - .024
4th - .036

Bruce Weber told me to use light gauge strings. No need to question that. I suspect the light gauge is recommended given the flat top and bracing configuration. 

My 1N has sweet tone and plenty of volume with light gauge.

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## racuda

Tomastik-Infeld Mittles also work very well. I have a 1-N and have had the TI's on it for six months. They sound great and feel really great.

1st #- #010#

2nd - #.015

3rd #- .021
#
4th - #.033#

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## Nathan Sanders

I usually use D'Addario J-62 strings on my 1N.

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## mikeyjc

Hey Forum!

I was the winner of the 2MC. #It arrived yesterday, and has finish cracks on the bass half of the top, all around the sides, on the back, and up both sides of the neck. #AARRGGHH! #Not quite the 'excellent condition; no blemishes or flaws' disclosed in the listing  

Have sent the seller and his minion two e-mails - one last PM, one late this afternoon - but alas, have not heard back from either as of yet  #Also just noticed someone else posted negative feedback for him this past Monday ...

HOWEVER ... other than needing a setup, it seems to sound and play fine.

Since I'm not a luthier, I plan to take it to the fine folks at Elderly to determine if it has structural problems, and have advised the seller accordingly ...

No, it didn't have a case. #The pickguard is definitely funky - will find out Saturday if it's covering up a bullet hole or something # 

Way OT (apologies in advance) - my dad died in 1987. #He was born and raised in Quincy, Mass. #I can't help but think he's smiling - somewhere - now that the Sox have finally won the Series. #In 1986, we watched Game 7 together over the phone - he, in Seattle, me, in Anchorage - while he was losing his battle with lung cancer.

Thanks to all - the Cafe is an INCREDIBLE community &lt;salute&gt;.

 - Mike in MI

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## fatt-dad

Mikeyjc - you can always scrape the finish off the neck and get rid of the cracks that way. My 1N arrived with a naked neck along with a bad finish repair job. While I received the case, it is the tone and fun of playing it that keeps it in my not for sale list.

f-d

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## racuda

The label in my 1-N looks like someone has erased the serial number and crudely written a name with a black Sharpie. While I am not in favor of buying stolen goods, this was an eBay item and I didn't know about the defaced label until I received it.

Does anyone know if the serial number is witten in pencil on the wood _under_ the label, like the old Gibsons?

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## pickinNgrinnin

Don't know about that. You may want to contact Paula Jean at Weber as she will likely know. It may not be a stolen Mando - maybe some fool got ahold of it.

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## fatt-dad

my serial number is typed on the label.

f-d

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## fatt-dad

(not to unneccarily streach out this thread, but here goes. . . .)

What would be a good bridge replacement for my 1N? Also, not having nut files, what would be the best choice for getting a replacement nut? Has anybody used a non-wood bridge on their pancake?

I feel like prior setups on my 1N have come at a compromize to the nut and bridge slots. I am in the midst of getting all my keeper mandolins right - so this one will need to go somewhere for some fret replacements, etc. Figuring it will get shipped, I may also send along a new bridge and maybe a nut blank (unless the luthier has what I need).

f-d

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## JiminRussia

I'm a little gunshy about putting anything really fancy on my mandoilins after spending a bunch for a fossilized brigde saddle and wedges for my Brekke brigge on my F-5. It made it sound too bright and kind of tinny and thin. I'd try to keep the Flatiron pretty much as close to original as possible, if I were you. I just love the sound of my 1N now that it's all original again after I had the original bridge put back on it. It came with both the original in the case and a replacement that was just too high for it. I am realy glad that the original was there! It's already very bright and LOUD, as are all that I have ever tried, and I wouldn't want to make the same mistake with it as I did my Newson F-5.

----------


## Dan Adams

My 83 2M has the 'Made in Bozeman, Montana by Backporch Productions' label. It is an early 83, made in January. Killer tone, and huge volume! It would be nice to get the final clrifications about when and where they were produced in the early stages of the company.

All that Glitters is not Scrolled! Dan

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## fatt-dad

Yeah, I'm glad that my bridge and nut are original, but they have been gacked up none-the-less. I have a hard time with string slots larger than the string (i.e., at the bridge) and I also have a hard time with the strings sitting too far into the nut. These are the faults with my setup. (Note to anybody that wants some advice - don't deepen the slots to improve action.)

Further comment?

f-d

----------


## Jim M.

How about one of the Red Henry maple bridges?

----------


## fatt-dad

Jim M. Any information on where to purchase? I just also posted at the builders forum to see if there is a wood putty product that would enable me to infill the slots well enough to have them reslotted. Comments?

f-d

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## Jim M.

Red is now selling them at: http://www.murphymethod.com/maplebridge.html

There is also a lot of information at his site about his experiments with them. Someone else was selling them too, but I can't find that link right now. On filling the nut, I've always heard that super glue does the job, either by itself or mixed with sawdust.

----------


## PaulD

I've filled the nut on my fiddle with Superglue and small ebony splinters, then refiled the groove. The G and D strings used to buzz a little on some notes, but I was able to cure it this way. 

On another note: I posted on the Build/Repair topic that I finished filing the frets on my Flatiron. Thanks to this thread, I was able to dig through my string stash and find a set of the appropriate gauge strings that I must have bought for the Flatiron years ago. It's _SO SWEET_ to be able to play that instrument again... I've been trading back and forth between that and the Gibson "A" having fun with the different tone and texture. The Flatiron is really bright and punchy compared to the Gibson, which seems to be more refined, and it has more bass response than I remember. The Gibson seems to be more balanced across its range.

I was thinking about lowering the action on the Flatiron, but I think I'm okay on the nut end and need to lower the bridge. In my Builders/Repair topic post, I expressed concern about changing the volume and punch by lowering the bridge, but someone said he did the same thing and it sounds fine. I will probably make a new bridge so I can go back to the original if I don't like it.

I also mentioned previously in this thread that the finish has chips and is peeling in some places. I had e-mailed SoundToEarth a year or so ago and was told the Flatiron was originally finished with Fullerplast, but I wasn't able to find any reference to that finish at the time. A few days ago I was able to find the manufacturer on the Web, so now I know that it's a catalyzed varnish.

I e-mailed the mfg'r for recommendations on touching it up with brush-on varnish. The feedback sounded more like a sales pitch for Fullerplast, but I was told that if the finish was peeling and chipping it was probably not Fullerplast. He said that touching up Fullerplast with a lesser varnish would probably not work because of Fullerplast's superior flexibility, and that I should strip the mandolin and respray it with Fullerplast. I'm sure their product is good, but I doubt it's much different than other quality varnishes/lacquers that I could use. 

I'm hesitant to strip it because I don't want to lose the "The Flatiron" decal/silk screen (whatever it is) logo on the headstock. I'm leaning toward scraping the loose finish, sanding and feathering the areas to be touched up, and using a good quality brush-on varnish to fix the areas where the finish is gone. Does that seem like a reasonable approach? I'm open to suggestions.

----------


## Moose

This is great; all these CAFE "pages" about "the pancake"!!! - But, yes, that mandolin IS worthy of the attention!! - AS I mentioned earlier, I had(!?###) one - AND wish I still had it.   carry on.

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow! I'm glad to see this thread is still alive. Great information. Keep it up!

----------


## mikeyjc

Follow-up to my previous post:

2MC bought on eBay got back from Elderly today; had them remove the cheesy pickguard, do some fret work, and set it up. They truly do miracles there  

Best news of all is that there was no structural damage. Seller also stepped up and sent me a check to cover undisclosed finish cracks.

What a sweet sweet mando I now have! I may eventually upgrade, but I'll never part with this one!

Again, thanks to all of you who post here - wonderful community, incredible info shared.

A VERY happy Flatiron owner - 

mikeyjc

----------


## JiminRussia

Hey Fatt-dad, I was just re-readig some of the posts on this thread and I wouldn't worry too much about not having the right files for the nut. Just use an old string that is of the right diameter. The wound strings will cutr the right size slot in it for you pretty quickly. The only one that you will have to figure out is the easy one, the "E" string I use a serrated knife to start the slot on the E string and then polish it out with an old "E" string. I only learned this little tip a short while ago but it sure did work well when I tried it out on a buzzing string.

----------


## fatt-dad

Jiminrussia,

Love the tip. I will surely use it!

Pertaining to 1N style mandolins, there are two flatiron pankcakes in ebay right now. One is a "real" one with a reserve of $500.00 (for some reason its in the listing) the other (with a "buy it now" of $695.00) is the laminated Nashville, fake truss rod, Authentic Gibson "Flatiron". Hard to believe that there is a hope to get $695 for this poor substitute.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

I saw the fake one on the bay last night. Buyer beware on this cheesy imitation! I nearly hoarked when I saw the asking price. If I remember correctly, the laminated toy is on it's 3rd ebay round.

----------


## JiminRussia

I know what you mean about the "fake". The reserve price on the "real" Flatiron is probably prety fair, but if you are looking for a bargain, this isn't it. With the reserve that is on it, I expect this to go for a fair price, but not at any bargain basement price. Nothing wrong with that, but like most folks I'm always trying to find that Loar at a Pac Rim Import price.

----------


## fatt-dad

Personally, I'll be amazed if the 1N goes for $500.00 (although having the original case does help).

f-d

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## Onesound

I had a 2M that I wish I had never sold! It was a great little box - very bright and loud. My first wife hated it... so I divorced her! 

Brian

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## fatt-dad

PaulD gets the credit for this find - Frets.com shows how to install/fit a new bridge and uses a 1N as the subject. HERE'S the link.

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Great looking case Pick. Good job on the modification. Your case does look deeper than my case. I bought a hard shell case for my 1N from Elderly Instruments and it fits perfectly without modification. They even advertised it as fitting the army-navy style. Now, before anyone goes off rushing to Elderly to buy, I bought my case about 10 years ago. I just checked their web site and could not find it. So I do not know if the case is still made or what. I cannot find a brand name on my case, but I believe it to be a Harptone. Anyway, just wanted to add my two cents, and also keep this thread alive.

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## pickinNgrinnin

I had talked with the folks at TKL about a case for this Flatiron. After the person on the phone checked numerous model numbers, the case did not exist or at least that's what I was told. I thought they could make one for me but if so, I was sure it would cost a lot. These Flatirons have not been made for a long time so companies like TKL, GWW, Harptone, may not make them anymore. This particular GWW that I have was advertised as not fitting a standard A style Mandolin. The case provides a nice snug fit for the pancake.

How about a shot of that case F5dude?

----------


## fatt-dad

(as an aside, TKL purchased the Harptone line and moved, or is moving, the molds to their Oilville, Virginia facility. Whether they could do research at some point in the future to remake the case may be possible. PickinNgrinnin, did you ask them about this?)

f-d

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## PaulD

I kinda dropped out of this thread for awhile, but I just noticed it was still alive. I would like to find a "correct" case for my 1SH. I've got it in an A case that is way too big, mostly to provide some protection from rapid humidity/temperature changes. I was in Acoustic Music last weekend and they were suggesting I bring it in to see how the Mid Missouri cases fit... they are pretty small and flat, although not as much as the Flatiron.

Paul Doubek

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Here is a picture of my 1CH in its case. The case is the same thing as the case for my 1N.

----------


## Walter

Does anyone know anything about the 3MB that was in the classifieds? Looks like it was posted and sold soon after. It's a beauty. Anyone know the selling price?

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## johnsmusic

While y'all are on the subject, I wanted to show off my latest. I have to thank Charles Johnson for this. I put an ad in the "wanted" section and never thoght that I would find one, but Charles contacted me and just recently had gotten this in, hadn't even listed it on his site yet. #It is a'84 3M Flatiron zouk, curly maple back and sides and it is a sweetheart. Just curious, there is no logo on the headstock although the label and everything is intact inside. Is that common? There is really no sign that there ever was one on the headstock. Thanks, John

----------


## johnsmusic

Sorry, here is a photo

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## johnsmusic

and one more

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## pickinNgrinnin

I saw the 3MB on the classifieds last night and I think the seller was asking $500.00 He must have removed the price when the ad was re-posted as sold. $500.00 for a nice 3MB is a great buy. I bet he could have sold it for more without much trouble.

FD- I did not ask the folks at TKL if they planned to remake the Flatiron cases - probably should have!

I wonder if the Mid-Missouri cases will fit. The body on the Mid MO has a different shape. Let us know how that works out Paul.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

That's the first Flatiron I've seen without the Logo on the headstock. An early one perhaps? Could be older than fatt-dad's? They may have decided to add the logo later on in 84? F.D.'s is a May 84 1N. Also it looks like the shape of the headstock is a bit different. There appears to be a more pronounced point at the top of the headstock than on other Flatiron's. Go back through this thread and compare some pics. Nice looking instrument.

What is the serial number?

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## johnsmusic

It is 8410314, plays like a dream with good volume...if I can only get my hands to spread and cover those frets now....John

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## PaulD

As I've posted earlier, my Flatiron 1SH is an '81 and has the logo on the headstock. I wonder if it's been stripped and refinished???

pd

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## fatt-dad

Note to the thread - there is another 3mc in the 'cafe classifieds.

f-d

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## johnsmusic

"As I've posted earlier, my Flatiron 1SH is an '81 and has the logo on the headstock. I wonder if it's been stripped and refinished???"

Sure doesn't look like it. Definitely not the instrument, MAYBE the headstock???

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## pickinNgrinnin

Do you have a close up shot of the headstock?

----------


## Don

The selling price on the 3MB that sold in the classifieds was $500.I bought it.I had a 2MC and let it go a couple years or so ago,and have been missing it.It was a great little mandolin.The sound that came out of that little box was amazing.Shortly after getting the money order mailed for my new baby,I got up on the classifieds and saw the ad for the other 3MB.Really nice looking mando and for a good price too.Surprised it hasn't been snatched up already.

----------


## Don

For all you folks who have these little Pancake style mandos,I'd be interested in hearing what strings and gauges you are using.

----------


## fatt-dad

Ah Don, You have to look at the earler pages of this thread. The recommended string gauges should be posted on a label inside the soundbox. Look up toward the neck joint and see if there isn't a label that shows the recommended string gauges. I found that the GHS ??-250s work. I can't remember the letter prefex, like it may be P-250 or something like that. Whatever, they are an exact fit with the recommended gauge for the pancake mandolin.

Good luck.

fatt-dad

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## Nathan Sanders

Mostly I have used the D'Addario J-62 strings on my Flatiron.

----------


## fatt-dad

> Mostly I have used the D'Addario J-62 strings on my Flatiron.


Checked the string gauges for the J-62s and they run up to 0.034, which is just under the 0.036 gauge that is referenced in the label. The GHS A-250s are a better match as they go from the 0.010 to the 0.036 as specified, but the a-string may be somewhat off on the a-250s.

f-d

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## PaulD

As posted earlier... my Flatiron doesn't have the string gauge sticker... must have been a later innovation. I have Martin strings on it right now, but I just bought a new set and I can't recall the brand. I know the E was .010, and I think the G was .036, so maybe they are the GHS set. Thanks for the string gauge info to those of you who posted it. I'm glad to have it set up right.

Paul Doubek

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## PaulD

The replacement strings I bought are J-62's... .034 G string. The Martin strings that I put on it are also .034 on the G string, although when I checked it with a micrometer it measured .033. The bass response seems good but I'll try the GHS strings next time for comparison. I'm probably also going to restring that mandolin with octave strings on the G and D just to play with it. 

pd

----------


## Don

Was just on the classifieds and checked that other 3MB
for sale.It's still there,but no longer has the asking price listed with the ad.Do you suppose it's been sold?

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## pickinNgrinnin

Two of these currently on the Bay. This one is a pre-Gibson and it is getting quite a bit of action. Been watching Papa Gordo?

----------


## fatt-dad

WOW - that price is up there. I believe that that thing will be in the $700 to $800.00 range by the time it's all over. Looks real fine though.

Funny that this thread resurfaced today. I'm preparing to bring mine out of the closet, change the strings and bring it to the next old-time jam. I heard it calling, "Play me, play me. . ."

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow, I'm glad to seet the return of this thread. Hey fatt-dad, I just got my 1N out the other day and broke a string tuning it up. So, yeah, I need to change them. It's been a while. I too saw the price on that mandola currently on ebay. Wow! I placed a bid early on, but I think I will let this one go.

I just sold my 1CH, which I had previously mentioned in this thread. And I got a really good price. The new owner had a 1CH that he accidentally broke the peg head on, so getting another one was a real treat for him. And, when he received the one I sold him, he checked the serial numbers between it and his broken one, and they were consecutive. What's the probability of that?

----------


## fatt-dad

fatt-dad continues. . . . 

I am considering a partial refret on mine. But the real question is whether to radius the board. What would the purists think about that?

f-d

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## BlueMt.

I've had this 2K mandola since 1982. I also had a 1N and a Flatiron octave, but I let those get away.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey, if anyone knows of a Flatiron Bouzouki for sale, I would be interested.

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## pickinNgrinnin

It's the thread that will not fade  

Consecutive numbers on a 1CH? What the? The probability of that happening - incomprehensible. 

Nice Koa 2K - too bad about the 1N!

El Papa Gordo...we all know you took to the radiused boards but to desecrate a 1N?

----------


## fatt-dad

> El Papa Gordo...we all know you took to the radiused boards but to desecrate a 1N? #


Yeah, I know better. I do need to send it out and get the frets worked on. The first three are really slotted and a dressing doesn't look like it will work. I also need to get the bridged lowered and have learned my lesson - i.e., not to do it myself. I am excited to get the work done and it will give me something to add to this thread in the months ahead. Maybe even a photo will make this thread too!

f-d

p.s., it's don Papa Gordo - ha.

----------


## PaulD

> It's the thread that will not fade


It does seem to go on... doesn't it. 

don Papa, My Flatiron frets were _seriously_ grooved. I leveled and crowned them and they cleaned up nicely, but I think they were rather tall when the instrument was new (1981). One of the next things I want to do with mine is lower the action at the bridge. The nut seems fine. I haven't learned my lesson yet... hopefully the Flatiron will survive! 

I restrung the G and D strings with .012 unwound strings for the second string on each course and tuned those an octave high. It's an interesting sound. I still need to shim the slots in the nut for the two unwound strings because they sit a little low, but I figured I would just drop a sliver of wood in there rather than gluing something in so it will be easy to go back if I want to.

Paul Doubek

----------


## fatt-dad

> I haven't learned my lesson yet...


My problem when working on a fixed bridge is how to shave the wood from the underside and keep it square. I guess it must require a jig or someother mechanical method to keep the bridge upendicular with respect to the sandpaper/scraping tool/belt sander, etc. In my prior impatience, I would just try to hold it in my hand and sand away. But, the end product was always messed up.

Am I making sense?

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

> I haven't learned my lesson yet...


My problem when working on a fixed bridge is how to shave the wood from the underside and keep it square. I guess it must require a jig or someother mechanical method to keep the bridge upendicular with respect to the sandpaper/scraping tool/belt sander, etc. In my prior impatience, I would just try to hold it in my hand and sand away. But, the end product was always messed up.

Am I making sense?

f-d

----------


## racuda

> My problem when working on a fixed bridge is how to shave the wood from the underside and keep it square. #I guess it must require a jig or someother mechanical method to keep the bridge upendicular with respect to the sandpaper/scraping tool/belt sander, etc. #In my prior impatience, I would just try to hold it in my hand and sand away. #But, the end product was always messed up.
> 
> Am I making sense?
> 
> f-d


Frank Ford's method has worked very well for me.


Fitting Bridge "Feet"

----------


## fatt-dad

Racuda,

That is a great way to fit the bridge, but what if you have to remove maybe a sixteenth of an inch to get the action to where you want it? I feel that it would be a lot of scuffing and scraping using this method. Maybe, I'm just impatient?

Thanks for the link - I'll see about my confidence. . . .

f-d

----------


## PaulD

Frank's method is what I used... it made sense to me that if you slide it side-to-side it would be easier to maintain perpendicular attitude relative to the top. If I were removing 1/16" I would scribe a line all the way around at 1/16" and then remove wood almost to the line (leave the line and maybe a little more). 

Removal could be done with a sanding drum, Dremel, router table, etc... but I would personally prefer to use a block plane, sharp chisel, knife, or spokeshave with the bridge clamped in a vise. Then finish up with the sandpaper on the instrument top, as per FF. 

pd

----------


## racuda

f-d, I did have to take off about 1/16" from my 1-N bridge. By scraping with a pocket knife and then using sandpaper to identify the high spots, I was able to fit it perfectly - better that the factory job. It only took about an hour.

The bridge foot is not really flat, but rather slightly curved to conform with the top, so I would not not use a sanding block or any method that would flatten the bridge. 

A sixteenth of an inch is really not that much to remove from ¼" x 4" piece of wood. Just take your time and do it right and you will be rewarded with a mandolin that plays like butter and sounds even better than you expected as a result of perfect intimate bridge to top contact.

----------


## hotwire

Hi all- iv'e been following this thread with some interest.A local shop has a flatiron 2MC w/case for sale [it was a trade in]. It looks like it's in great shape.The chipboard case has no wear at all. This could be a instrument that sat in a closet for years. the serial # starts with 84 (1984 ?) Now the big question ... what would be a deal to good to turn down? # #$$$$ any comments?

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Hotwire-

The one I referred to on this page, just sold on the bay for $760.00 It was the same year (although with a different finish) as the one you are looking at. What are they asking for the 2MC?

----------


## fatt-dad

If the action is good, the frets are good and the neck is straight, anything under $500.00 would be too good not to buy. That said, pNg is correct, there is a buyer out there that will pay several hundred more. I doubt that you'll sell it though - ha.

f-d

----------


## hotwire

pNg-  The asking price is $450, they said they would take $400. Now the task of convincing my wife it will be a good "investment" (long term that is).

----------


## fatt-dad

Let me know if the wife says no. My wife won't know if I add another to the stow

----------


## atetone

Hotwire, if it's in decent shape that is a good price especially if the case is the original.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

$400.00 for a 2MC???What the?? If it's in the shape you describe, that's a great deal! OK...where is this for sale? Let me know ASAP

----------


## fatt-dad

Let's not fight. I want it more than pNg.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I'll take it.:D

----------


## fatt-dad

Dateline 18 February 2005 - Update on Fatt-Dad's 1N.

I just shipped it off for new frets and a setup. I just don't think I want to practice on adjusting the action of a fixed bridge. At least fitting an adjustible bridge you have the option of using the thumb screws if you get too low.

Hotwire - you have to get that mandolin. That way we'll be able to continue this thread. I just showed mine to a colleague and she seemed impressed with the sound. It's really quite a thrill to play one of these.

That said, I'll be without for a week or so. (Note to self, buy mandolins that don't need to be refretted.)

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

more from fatt-dad.

Ebay has a pre-Gibson 1N with a reserve of $400 right now. Non original case, but seemingly in great condition. The bids are getting close to $300.00 and no it's not mine. FYI.

f-d

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## fatt-dad

Hotwire, Did you buy it? Upon receipt, post photos. If you aren't getting it, I'll take a PM with the contact information. I really hope you found a way to pick it up though.

f-d

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## hotwire

fatt-dad , At this point I'm trying to exibit self-controll.... No , have not made the deal..yet. I have been waching a 84' 2MC on e-bay w/ 14 hrs. left. The last bid was around $430.    hotwire

----------


## fatt-dad

Update - March 3, 2005. Yesterday I got my 1N back from a refret - love it! As it turned out I needed a new nut and the replacement is made of bone. Now I thought as a purist that I would want a wooden nut, but it's no matter. The mandolin continues to be fun to hold and play. I am further impressed with the tone and sustain. Bottom line is I'm keeping it. Maybe I'll post a photo to add yet something else to discuss on this thread.

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

The moment you all've been waiting for. . . . . .

Here is a photo of my 1N in it's five latch case. Note sub-par cosmetic "repair" at the pickwear - wish folks would just leave well enough alone. That said, this mandolin has seen some wear. I bought it out of Canada where it was apparently used by a player in a Klezmer band. New fret job and bone nut are great along with the brand new set of GHS A250s!

fatt-dad

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Nice job there El Papa Gordo! Good looking 1N and a cool case to boot. Notice any tone/volume differences with the bone nut?? I have a Fossil Walrus Ivory nut blank I could use for my 1N. It's just laying around not being used.

----------


## fatt-dad

pNg,

No real jump-out-and-grab-you difference from the nut. It's just so nice to have new frets and the proper action that I'm more drawn to the new-found playability. If there is a nut factor, it's second to the overall playability.

fatt-dad

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Nice looking 1N fatt d! I'm waiting to get my F-5 back from a local shop where it is getting a partial refret. I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell. And this one has a different tailpiece. Instead of the fan-like tailpiece usually seen, it has a more traditional one like an F-5. The mando is a '96 model. Any idea of why the different tailpiece? Factory? Later customization?

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

I have a 96 1N and it has the fan style tailpiece. The one you mention must have been an add on.

----------


## fatt-dad

> I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell.


I have two things to say about that: 1) yeah sure. . . . 2) what's up with that?

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

> Originally Posted by  (f5dude @ Mar. 04 2005, 13:53)
> 
> I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell.
> 
> 
> I have two things to say about that: 1) yeah sure. . . . 2) what's up with that?
> 
> f-d


What's up with it fatt-dad is that I'm buying a Flatiron 2MC mandolin from a friend and I may put if up for sale soon. When I get it, maybe I will post a picture of it. Any other questions?

----------


## PaulD

Nice looking pancake, f-d... I wish mine looked that good. Mine sure plays nicely, though, since I leveled and reshaped the frets. Still need to lower the action at the bridge, as we've discussed before. I wish I had a decent fitting hard case for mine too... I've got one for an A model that's a little big.




> I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell.


f5dude: In the interest of fairness, you can give it to me since my birthday is tomorrow...  

I never saw a stock Flatiron pancake-type without the fan tailpiece... it's probably a replacement since stringing that tailpiece is the only bad thing about that mando!  

pd

----------


## fatt-dad

> Any other questions?


It's all good here. I just know that for myself, sometimes it's hard to "just get one" and then sell it - ha. Have you had one to play yet? You may just want to keep it.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Yep I know what you mean fatt-dad. It is hard to "just get one." I have my 1N which is just awesome. This will actually be my second 2mc. I bought one last year and sold it some months later. It was very nice. It had a great sound and feel and the fan-like tailpiece. I just sold a 1CH which was really awesome too. Sometimes I wish I would have kept them all as part of a quest to collect the whole Flatiron line of army-navy mandos. But finances will not allow. 

On a related topic, a friend of mine just had a mad rush of MAS. In a period of 3 weeks he bought an old Martin mandolin. Then he decided to sell it (at a profit) and he bought a Flatiron 2MC (the one I'm buying in fact). Then almost overnight he decides he might as well step on up to a Gibson A-9. After a quick search on the net, I find him a great deal on a new A-9. He calls the store and buys it. What next?

----------


## fatt-dad

There's a big difference between an A9 and a 2MC IMHO. I think that my collection will always have my 1N, my A3, my A5-1 and my new Stanley (yes, I bought it)! So, I think I have the basis covered. I guess I'll keep my Stiver A for awhile also. . . .

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Check out this army-navy style mando currently on ebay (I have no connection to it):

Handmade Kneeland Mandolin

----------


## fatt-dad

I hope they sound great and play well. Looks real interesting and quite a favorable price if it goes for $500.00.

(nothing in it for me either).

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey fatt-dad and the rest, here is a picture of my recently acquired Flatiron 2MC. Notice the different tailpiece. I'm guessing a previous owner made the change in tailpiece. Anybody have a tailpiece cover that says "The Flatiron" ?

----------


## fatt-dad

f5dude,

What's the serial number/vintage of that mandolin? A "The Flatiron" tailpiece may not be authentic for a real early Flatiron. I say that as my early 80s A5-1 (with a tailpiece like that) is not inscribed. I think that was a later feature - maybe even when The Gibson bought them, but not sure.

F-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Fatt, the 2MC is a '96 model built in Montana, but I am not really concerned whether or not "The Flatiron" tailpiece is authentic. I think it would just look cool since this mando has this type of tailpiece. As a friend of mine suggested, I could get this tailpiece engraved locally, but I probably won't.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

f5dude-

Do you have a shot of the back side??

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## PaulD

f-d, 

My '81 1SH has the same clam shell looking tailpiece as your's (the one you posted a pic of on 3/3). No engraving. In fact, it looks the same as my old bowl-back other than the fact that it's shiny.

pd

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## fatt-dad

PaulD,

10-4 on that. I am just wondering when did Flatiron start using the engraving of "The Flatiron" on their Gibson-style tailpieces (recognizing that this is off the topic of the pancake)? I ask this cause my A5 Flatiron has the Gibson-style tailpiece, but is not engraved.

On the matter of the pancake, I'm pretty sure that f5dude's is a replacement. I also suspect that it makes little difference on the sound.

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Yep, I'm sure the tailpiece is probably a replacement. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but my F-5 is in the shop right now for warranty work. A couple of weeks ago I took my F-5 to a local luthier for a partial refret. A few days ago I picked it up. By the way, the luthier did a great job;the new frets look as good as new. Well, when I got home I got my F-5 out to look at it more and tune it up. It was then I noticed the tailpiece....IT WAS BROKEN!! It was coming apart at the 90-degree bend. I took it back to the luthier. He said he'd seen this type of break before, but failed to notice it on mine. Anyway, since I am the original owner and have the sales receipt and he is an authorized Gibson repair guy, warranty will cover the cost of repairs. It almost makes me wish I had the original tailpiece for my 2MC, but I do not.

Anyway, I'll upload a picture of the back of the Flatiron later tonight or tomorrow. It sounds really awesome. Did you notice the little rubber "donuts" on the strings between the bridge and tailpiece? I've never run into these. Are they vibration dampers or what? Any thoughts?

----------


## fatt-dad

F5dude, HERE is where you can buy a "replacement-type" tailpiece for your pancake. On a whim I went to www.stewmac.com and found this link almost immediately. You may loose yourself at this site if you've never been there 'cause it has all sorts of interesting stuff.

I would like to hear more about the dampers on tailpiece side of the bridge. I've noticed that some folks weave a leather lace in the string sets, some use those donut things, some use felt on the underside of the strings at the tailpiece and some (me) do nothing. I guess there could be harmonic overtones, I just don't seem to hear them when I play, but then again maybe thats what the audience is complaining about - ha.

fatt-dad

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Thanks dad for the link! I may just have to get one of these original type of tailpieces. I've been to Stew Mac's site before but I didn't even think about checking for a tailpiece. If I were a woodworker I'd probably buy one of their kits. I met a guy once who had built a couple of pancake mandolins, just like the Flatirons. I do not know if he used the Stew Mac kits or what. He had colored his mandos too. One was green and the other was blue. Quite interesting, and they sounded pretty good.

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## Nathan Sanders

Here's a picture of the back of the 2MC

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## pickinNgrinnin

Oh, that's mighty nice. Looks like the sides are flamed too. So is this one for sale?? I'd go with the Stewmac tailpiece to get it back to an original look. The other one is definitely a replacement. 

10 pages and counting

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey Pick,

I have not decided yet whether to sale this one or not. It really is nice to play. And I just may go back to the clam-type tailpiece too. I would consider offers though.. :Smile:  (and lets keep this thread goin'...)

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## bratsche

I've seen lots of pictures of these instruments with the clamshell type tailpiece, but FWIW, my 1N mandola also has this same sort as yours, with a metal endpin. It looks pretty original (i.e. undisturbed), but who knows? It was made in '96 too.

bratsche

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## Nathan Sanders

Interesting bratsche. I guess we could ask Bruce Weber?

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## fatt-dad

Dear pancake fanciers:

For the last few years, I have had my Romanian Montana as my beach mandolin. Other than some corrosion on the machines, I've noticed no real issues from it being at the beach (yes, it's taken a few spills off the beach chair and into the sand and no, I don't always keep it in the case). I just have decided that it is such a lousy mandolin I may start using my 1N as this years beach mandolin. Here is your chance to talk me into it or out of it. I would recognize the need to spray the machines with wd-40 and would not likely carry it in its case. It would be subjected to wind but little water.

Am I crazy? I just really want to be able to enjoy playing the mandolin when I sit at the beach.

fatt heading-to-page-11 dad

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## Nathan Sanders

Aww fatt,

It pains me to think of the abuse the Flatiron might get on the beach. But then again it would be nice to play one at the beach. Man I just don't know. Why not pick up an ovation mando somewhere and abuse the heck out of it. Rainsong should make a mando.

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## PaulD

f5dude - That is one sharp looking mando... much nicer than my 1SH

f-d - I would be a shame if the 1N sustained damage due to being a beach mando, but if that's where you would get the most pleasure out of it... go for it. While I can understand the mentality that we are "custodians" of our instruments, I say it was built to make music and provide pleasure and you should decide how it can best fulfill that purpose. I'm sure you would take reasonable precautions with it anyway, but it would certainly safer if it never left a temperature/humidity controlled glass case! 

My 1SH finish is pretty bad from being my only mandolin for years, and the fact that I only had its original cardboard case. I would like to touch up the finish, but I don't regret all the times I had it with me out camping or carried it to parties/jams in my backpack while riding my bike in the winter. That's what trashed the finish... it still sounds great. It's served its purpose well, and I'll try to keep it playable for the rest of my years. 

pd

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## PaulD

I also meant to comment on the donuts... I've never used the donuts, and I don't have anything to dampen the strings on my Flatiron. I found the two Gibsons, however, both needed damping so I went with the leather between the strings. The Gibson A has the short tailpeice, the F-9 has the long one like f5dude's Flatiron.

pd

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## fatt-dad

PaulD: Regarding the use/abuse matter, I'm with you to a point. I mean, I would not think of using my 1920 A3 at the beach, nor one or two of the others. The deal with the 1N is that I had it with me at a state park over the weekend, and I was playing it to the trees and really enjoyed having it with me. I have carried my Romanian mandolin to the beach and have seen little damage to the finish, but I really don't enjoy playing it as much (setup, tone, etc). I guess if I was to have a mandolin relegated to the status of "beach mandolin" it would be nice if it had good tone, good playability and some level of stability. The fact that my 1N already had a checkerboard finish (i.e., lacquer cracks) some spots worn through the finish and no finish on the back of the neck shows it's working heritage. Maybe that's enough to push me over the edge and just retire the Romanian mandolin and hire the Flatiron for beach duty?

f-d

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## PaulD

I can understand wanting to take a mando that "sings" to you (not to mention that the trees would probably appreciate it more  ) rather than a box with strings. I've never played an Ovation mando, which was one suggestion for a beach mando, but I know I don't care much for playing their guitars unplugged. I'm not trying to bash Ovation, a lot of people love them. I don't blame you for not wanting to use your A3 as a beach mando, but if you wanted to I would consider it foolish, not morally reprehensible. 

I think the Flatiron is a great instrument for this purpose. They were originally relatively cheap. They're small, light, loud, fun to play. I still think you should take care of it; use it, but not abuse it. A beach or camping instrument is going to be subject to more stress and possibility for damage. I've loved packing mine around and will continue to do so. 

pd

PS: are we almost to page 11 yet?

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## Nathan Sanders

OK, maybe this will get us to page 11.

I have more information about the clam shell tailpiece and the traditional tailpiece on my 2MC. Bratsche mentioned she has the same tailpiece on her 96 Flatiron 1N mandola that I have on my 2MC. Well, I went to the source to find out more information. I e-mailed Paula at Sound To Earth, Weber's shop, and here is her reply:

"Yes, we had to switch to the more standard non-clam style tailpiece. #Steve Carlson had about 5000 tailpieces originally made by a maker. #During the years following, the maker died; and we were unable to locate his survivors and/or the tooling...pjl"

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## pickinNgrinnin

Papa Gordo! 

Friends don't let friends take their 1N's to the beach. Sure it plays and sounds great but you have a load of other Mandolins you could bring that would do well. Some of the A styles you have for sale could be converted to a beach mando!
No need to get carried away   

Hey f5dude- Great info about the tailpiece mystery! I would have sworn the standards were not original. So I guess if you have one with a clamshell style tailpiece, it's worth even more money

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## fatt-dad

But I want to sell them, I don't want to sell my 1N.

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## Nathan Sanders

I hear you fatt. I don't want to sell my 1N either. My 1N is a keeper. The 2MC is fast becoming a keeper. Sometimes I wish I'd kept the 1CH.

Take the 1N to the beach. It deserves some fun in the sun anyway. Besides, if I remember right, you've had quite a bit of work done to it anyway haven't you. I'd still take precautions when taking it out there though. Or what you could do is find one of those cheap, plywood, Nashville-made pancakes and use it as a beach mando. I had one for a short time and it had a great sound and played fine. Just a thought.

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## fatt-dad

> Or what you could do is find one of those cheap, plywood, Nashville-made pancakes and use it as a beach mando.


Had one and sold it. Not likely to get another.

There is a real side to me that is certain that my 1N will become the next beach mandolin, even if it suffers some of the associated ravages. I want to get my "fleet" of mandolins down to a few, each of which serve a specific purpose. I have the 1N for informal old-time get togethers and now THE BEACH. I guess, I'm not quite sure the best method to protect the machines or whether I should just go and buy a set of Grovers and let them be the sacrificial set for the summer.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

Well...I've heard stories of how folks take their Loars to festivals and pass them around the campfire pickin sessions. If that is true, I guess the 1N could stand up to the rigors of the beach. Just would not want to take mine there. It would cause me to fret - HA!

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## bratsche

f5dude - thanks for the info, as I had always been mildly curious about that tailpiece.

fatt-dad - if you want to protect the machines, you could always tie a plastic bag over the headstock while at the beach. It would look a bit silly, but would keep the sand and salt off them... 

bratsche

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## PaulD

f-d; I wonder if a stiff brush coated with Johnson's Paste Wax would do the trick. I like paste wax as a dry lube because it lubricates, protects from moisture, but doesn't attract dirt like grease or oil will. It's also a lot less messy if you bump up against it. Getting some cheap tuners so you can preserve the originals doesn't sound like a bad idea either. 

I was just thinking about this thread while I was talking to a guy about those "Formica" Martin guitars. Well they are really some composite laminate, but they are the best sounding plastic guitar I've ever heard... better than many "cheap" wood guitars. I wonder if a mandolin could be engineered the same way... you could take it on the beach, river trips, etc. Get home, toss it in the shower and rinse it off. 

f5dude; Another thanks for the tailpiece info. I had always assumed that they only used the Gibson style tailpiece on the carved-top models.

pd

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## fatt-dad

PaulD,

I couldn't agree with you more. It would really be great to have a functional "weatherproof" mandolin. Instead of plywood substitute for real tone wood, just go at it with the hightech materials of today - Kevlar, carbon fiber, HDPE, milk-jug plastic, etc. Then a set of Monels would be all that's needed (unless you could braid up some Kevlar for that too.

In the meanwhile, the paste wax is a good idea. . . . 

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

I see there is a cheapy, plywood pancake made in Nashville listed on EBAY. I think it has been there before.

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## fatt-dad

THIS is what the laminated "Gibson" Flatiron mandolins look like. There is no truss rod (just the truss rod cover) and they originally sold for $200.00 at the Showplace in Nashville. They are similar in apparance to the Montana Flatiron 1N mandolin, but with the laminated construction and thicker bracing do not have the same projection or value (IMHO).

fatt-dad

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow!! Somebody actually paid 425.00 for the laminated Flatiron. You are right fatt, these Nashville pancakes are nowhere near the same as an original Montana-built Flatiron. Yet, the one I had was better than a bunch of other cheapo mandolins. It did put out a decent sound, for what it was.

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## telepbrman

Who's got one to sell? Later, dy.

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## Nathan Sanders

telepbrman, what are you looking for? I have a Flatiron 2MC I just got, but it looks like I may have to let it go. There are a couple of pictures of it on page 10 of this thread. IT really has a great sound and is beautiful.

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## fatt-dad

HERE's a reference to another thread on the flat-top Flatiron mandolins. One of the postings shows a sketch of the internal bracing.

FYI-type stuff.

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey Fatt-Dad,

There's a Flatiron pancake on EBAY right now which would probably make a great beach mandolin!

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## fatt-dad

f5dude, it will be interesting to see how THIS ebay auction plays out, allright. #I'll be otherwise on Spring break to follow too closely. #Being an '82 model, it certainly has some "collectible" value (i.e., pre-Gibson). #But it does make me wonder of the condition, not having a case and all. . . . .

f-d

p.s., forgot to add, went to an old-time jam with my pancake and it really made an impression.

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## Eric F.

Hmmm. Looks from the high bidder like fatt-dad might have found his beach mando!

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## racuda

> Hmmm. Looks from the high bidder like fatt-dad might have found his beach mando!


Yes, it looks perfect! Good luck fatt-dad.

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## fatt-dad

Well, I missed it while on Spring Break. It seemingly went for about $230.00 in need of a crack repair, a fret job and a case. That would add up to maybe another $250 to $300.00, which is not great, but not bad.

On a separate note, I didn't take my 1N to the Beach afterall. My Romanian four-piece solid-spruce top Montana flat-top returned into service. I mean it's not like I need the tone when the waves are crashing and the sand is blowing.

f-d

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## Eric F.

Well, a Flatiron 2M just arrived for me. I'll post pix in a while. Right now, I have to get the strings off and some new ones on. These are dead. Otherwise, it seems nice.

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## pickinNgrinnin

f-d,

Good call, the Montana Flatiron is ill suited for the beach. It's heritage is from the mountains not the beach

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## Nathan Sanders

Eric,

Congratulations on the Flatiron 2M! Can't wait to see pics. I have my 2MC For Sale if you know of anyone. I just bought a Flatiron Bouzouki from a fellow Cafe member. It is too cool! What an interesting sound. You can even get a banjo sound out of it if you play close to the bridge. But then, why would anyone want to do that? HA...

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## Eric F.

Thanks! I'll take some pics tomorrow. Tonight I put on some new J-62s and now it's singing. This little thing pumps out some sound. It was an impulsive eBay purchase, although I had been thinking about picking up one of these again (I used to have a 2MW) for some time. The price was very, very right, so I jumped on it. It's a nice little mandolin. A little bit of what Big Joe calls "crackalura" on top for that vintage look. The back is very nice indeed. Tuners are a bit sticky and I'm not wild about the clamshell tailpiece, but I do like the sound quite a bit. The listing did not mention the internal pickup, which is a nice bonus, although I would prefer an endpick jack, not a separate hole in the mando. I plugged it in briefly at my lesson tonight, and it sounded pretty good amplified. It kind of amazes me with all we spend on instruments (myself included) that something that costs so relatively little can sound this good. So count me in as a happy member of the Flatiron pancake club.

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## Eric F.

Well, I can't get the photos to upload. I'll try again later.

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## fatt-dad

Photos may be either too big or too large (funny, eh?). There is both a maxumum file size and a maximum pixel size that limits what can be posted. Here is what I have done: insert the photo into a powerpoint slide, grab the lower corner of the picture box and resize the image on the powerpoint slide, save the image as a *.jpg file (this may be via a right click or a save-as command - I cannot recall). Be sure to rename something other than the original file (which may also be a *.jpg). Use the new file to upload to the cafe.

Voilla!

f-d

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## Eric F.

The back:

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## Eric F.

The front:

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## Eric F.

Hey, it worked. Fatt-dad, thanks for the tips. What I did was actually read the instructions in PhotoShop. Call me old-fashioned. 

Anyhow, I played this mando for hours last night after I put new strings on it. I like it. I would not take it to the beach, although I would take it camping.

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey, beautiful Flatiron 2M! I really like the birdseye maple. It looks the birdseye on my Flatiron bouzouki. You will have many fun days with this mandolin.

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## Eric F.

Thanks, f5dude. I really like the birdseye, too. Heck, I really like this mandolin.

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## fatt-dad

And another one joins the fold - considering this a temporary anticdote for MAS. Maybe so, maybe so. . . . . .

Beautiful pancake. We need a party!

f-d

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## Eric F.

F-D,

Yes, we do need a party. I can't put this thing down. No, I am not going to refuse delivery of my Arches A when it arrives, but ... this little mandolin has some serious mojo going for it. I played it on my front porch all night long tonight. It's a beautiful night here in the middle of nowhere, the owl is hooting in my back yard and there's a coyote howling off aways. A glass of bourbon and some fiddle tunes on the Flatiron made it just that much more beautiful.

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## pickinNgrinnin

Great looking Mando - love the Bird's Eye! Sounds like a keeper. Hey we're on page 12! The party continues

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## Eric F.

Page 12? We're going to beat the "Thinking About A Whatever It Was" thread soon!

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## fatt-dad

> A glass of bourbon and some fiddle tunes on the Flatiron made it just that much more beautiful.


Uh oh - posting after drinking. . . . . There's another thread right about this topic right now - ha.

Another front porch picker, eh?

f-d

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## Eric F.

Yes, my front porch is my favorite place to play the mandolin, especially at night. It helped me meet my neighbors when I first moved here, too. Of course, the neighbor across the street is a horse. She doesn't seem to mind the music. 

And officer, I only had one drink before posting. I swear.

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## Nathan Sanders

Sounds like the party is starting. Gee, maybe we should start the Unofficial Flatiron Pancake Society or something. (I think page 13 is just around the corner!)

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## Nathan Sanders

OK..I got curious...had an idea...Flatiron Cafe....but guess what......here it is...
The Flat Iron Cafe

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## PaulD

That is a nice birdseye pancake... I might need to get another one because mine is so plain! I guess I bought it for the sound. 

I almost took the Flatiron camping over Easter weekend, but the Gibson A came with us instead. My girlfriend brought an old Kentucky, but I need to look it over because we couldn't get it to stay in tune. She understably didn't want to bring her Old Wave. Still, it's hard to beat picking amongst the Utah red rocks around the campfire under a full moon with someone you love! 

Paul Doubek

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## Eric F.

Paul, I think the back is really nice, but I don't look at the back when I play. If you have one that's a keeper for the sound, that's more important. And your Easter weekend sounds lovely.

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## PaulD

Yeah... mine is a keeper. It was the first mandolin I bought (as mentioned about 9 pages ago!  )... new in 1981. Even during my impoverished college years I maintained that I wouldn't sell it because I coudn't ever get what it was worth to me. Despite the attention my Gibsons get, the Flatiron is an old friend with a great voice.

By the way... it is _understandable_ that my girlfriend didn't want to bring her Old Wave... not _understable_. Where's the spell check on this thing? 

pd

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## Eric F.

Paul, I thought maybe your girlfriend was unstable and thus not to be trusted around an Old Wave. Though given some of Mr. Bussman's posts and creations, that might be a good fit! Just kidding, Bill. I would LOVE to own an Old Wave oval some day. 

I think it's great that you still have your first mandolin. 

Hey, I'm using D'Addario J-62s on the Flatiron. Can anyone compare how theirs sounds with J-62s and some other types of strings? I'm thinking Thomastik-Infeld mediums might sound very nice. I like GHS Silk & Steel, but they're too heavy for this.

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## fatt-dad

Harken back several pages ago, but I think it's the GHS A-250s (or something that ends in 250 by GHS) that I use and they really do compliment my pancake. (For $50.00 I can get my first mandolin back - a pos Kay. . . but is it worth it?)

You know for every page of this thread, we've yet to have a thread basher claiming that the pancake was overrated, or didn't sound any good or any of that other stuff.  I consider that yet another testiment considering what the other guys have to put up with.

f-d

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## PaulD

Well, I hated to p#ss in anybody's cornflakes, but I really hung on to the Flatiron 'cause nobody else would have the weenie little POS!  

Sorry F-D... couldn't help myself. I can't recall if I mentioned that I started on a POS Kay. It was borrowed from my friends parents. It had no case and my little bro accidentally broke the head off. I replaced it by building a grape arbor about 10'x14'... figured we both won because they weren't using the mando before I borrowed it and the additional grapes meant more homemade wine for my friend and I to drink! 

pd

BTW: in case there's any doubt... the only thing I've _ever_ disliked about my Flatiron is the tailpiece when it comes time to restring. Other than that, it's amazing.

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## Nathan Sanders

Paul,

Check out my previous posts in this thread, I think about page 10, where I have pictures of my 2MC with a different tailpiece. Keep reading and you will find why it has the different tailpiece. I know what you mean about the clam shell tailpiece. It is a little trying when it comes time to restring. BTW, my 2MC is For Sale.

----------


## Eric F.

Yes, restringing made me unhappy. Thinking of getting a Rigel tailpiece as a replacement. I'll try the GHS lights and see how they sound. Also, one day when I'm feeling rich I'll try some T-Is, though the price has gone through the roof lately due to the dollar's decline.

----------


## PaulD

f5dude... 

I recall that portion of the thread... I was speculating that somebody had replaced yours, but then we got the real story. I've considered replacing mine. I replaced the tuners in the first year for no particular reason; I'll probably swap them back next string change. I've got a couple standard tailpieces I bought for projects, but I'll probably just keep the Flatiron the way Backporch Productions intended it. 

Your 2MC is a nice looking instrument... I could be tempted to pick it up, but I think I _need_ and Octave Mando first. I was dumb enough not to jump on a Weber Sage OM that somebody on the list put up for sale recently... it was a really good price, so by the time I checked the ad again it was in a "sale pending" state. DUH!

I don't know if any of you were following this thread when I mentioned how I've got mine strung up. I replaced the 2nd G and D strings with .012 unwound strings and tuned them an octave higher. I still need to shim the slots in the bridge and nut so that my pick strikes both strings simultaneously, but the sound is kinda fun. I don't want to totally rework the bridge and nut until I decide if I want to make the change permanent.

Paul Doubek

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Paul,

I just bought a Flatiron bouzouki(octave mando). It is really cool. If you change your mind on my 2MC, let me know. I had thought I might sell the Octave, but the more I play it, the more I like it.

----------


## PaulD

Oh... you'll find that the OM is just really too bulky to take jammming and gigging... the 2MC is much more compact. You really want to sell me the OM... cheap... really... you do.  

pd

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## Nathan Sanders

You funny man Paul...I actually took it to a jam this past Saturday. It was quite interesting as I jammed with a buddy of mine who was playing his 12-string Guild. Weird mix. Anyway, with another group of people I ended up playing a Taylor guitar as someone else held and played at my bouzouki. Don't get me started about Taylor guitars and how over-rated they are.

Anyway...hey...Paul...make me an offer on the bouzouki if you want. As the old adage says, "Everything is for sale."

----------


## PaulD

Didn't you see the offer in my previous post? 


> You really want to sell me the OM... cheap...


  

I don't know what that bouzouki is worth, but it's probably more than I can spend right now... especially if you _like_ it! I find the negotiation process goes much better for me if the person's not using the item under negotiation! The Weber Sage that was posted was being sold for $700 because the seller wasn't playing it... the next best deal I've seen on a Sage was a Buy-It-Now auction on eBay for $12XX. I should have not questioned it and pulled the trigger for $700! 

It just seems like there are so many mando players at the jams nowadays that I either play my fiddle (which can be a horrible experience for everyone present) or find a harmony on the mando. I think it's time I expand my horizons... that's part of the reason I finally strung up the Flatiron with octave strings for a little different sound.

pd

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## fatt-dad

HERE's a pre-Gibson pancake on ebay. 

f-d

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## Eric F.

Interesting. I prefer the natural look, but it's not that big a deal. Say, the J-62s seem to have settled in nicely and my new 2M is sounding very nice.

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## Nathan Sanders

I typically use J-62 on my Flatiron and they do sound great. Currently I have Darco strings on them, only because my favorite music store did not have J-62's and I needed strings quickly. But the Darcos sound alright and do the job. To me, though, D'Addarios just hold up better. They keep a really good tone for a long time.

----------


## fatt-dad

HERE's the same vintage 1N as the one that I have. Note the five latch case and the rust colored case interior. Seems like some aggressive pricing, but who knows. . . . .

fatt nothing-in-it-for-me dad

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## berkeleymando

> OK..I got curious...had an idea...Flatiron Cafe....but guess what......here it is...
> The Flat Iron Cafe


Hmmm ... there's also a Flatiron bar & grill in San Rafael, California.

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## Eric F.

F-d, I think they are usually listed for around $500 by most dealers, so I don't think the price is way out of line. Still, I picked up my 2M for a shade less than $400, so maybe eBay isn't too kind to Flatiron sellers.

----------


## PaulD

That eBay Flatiron looks almost exactly like my 1SH, except the finish is still good and the back has more figure. I wish I had the case, though. I've got mine in a carved-top A style case and it really doesn't fit well. I noticed that the one on eBay says it was made by "Backporch Productions", which was a discussion we had early in this thread. Apparently the later ones dropped that moniker by the mid 80s.

pd

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey Ya'll, I just sold my 2MC yesterday.

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## fatt-dad

> Hey Ya'll, I just sold my 2MC yesterday.


How can we celebrate that¿ Hopefully, you have another pancake though. . . . .

f'd

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## delsbrother

sorry

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## Nathan Sanders

Man those pancakes look good and I've long admired the unique Flatiron building. I'll stick with my pancake mandolin though. Even though my 2MC has sold, I still have my 1N. It was my first pancake and will remain with me. But now we can add the buyer of my 2MC to the army navy club. He is getting a great instrument. By the way, have you seen the Flatiron bouzouki currently on ebay? According to the description it was once played by Bill Monroe....hmmmmmm....kind of interesting but priced pretty high. Keep an eye on it.

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## fatt-dad

> But now we can add the buyer of my 2MC to the army navy club.


Did you provide written instructions to the new buyer so they will be able to find this thread? Now that it's out and about, we need to hear the review!

f-d

p.s., congratulations!

p.p.s., nice graphics delsbrother!

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey fatt, good idea! I'll e-mail the new owner and let him know about the site and this thread, in case he doesn't already.

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## fatt-dad

Dear fellow pancake lovers. . . . 

What is the difference between the "Flatiron Cadet" and the subject of this thread, the 1N, 2N, etc. series? They basically look the same and I suspect that when the Cadet was being offerred the 1N was also available. Was the Cadet a different scale length? Was it also solid wood? Any information?

f-d

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## PaulD

f-d, 

I can't answer your question directly... in fact, I guess I can't answer it at all!  I found what looks like a leftover link to the 1996 Flatiron catalog on Gibson's site that has the material specs for the Flatiron line. I can't see much difference between the Cadet and the Scout from the rest of the flattop line. Maybe it was a marketing thing.

Paul Doubek

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## pickinNgrinnin

I've wondered about that too. Perhaps it is simply a difference in the finishes?

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## Nathan Sanders

I really do not know the answer, but I tend to think it has something to do with the different finishes, the white tuning buttons as opposed to the pearloid buttons, not sure really. I do believe the cadets are all solid wood though.

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## fatt-dad

PaulD's link seems to show that they are the same, other than the Cadet is in the color "C" only. The Signature 1 series being availble in more than one color. Otherwise, they seem the same.

Thanks PaulD.

Further comment. . . . ?

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Further comment?....hmmmmmm.....let me think.....uh....well I got my 1N out tonight and man the thing just sounds awesome!!! (keep the thread going)....

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## PaulD

Keep the thread going? Okay... how about this question. This link seems to say that F-holes were an option in 1995 on the Model 2. Has anybody every _seen_ an F-Hole Flatiron in the wild? If you find one, you should tag it so we can track its movements... it's got to be a rare beast! 

Paul Doubek

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## Eric F.

If we really wanted an answer to these questions, we could just e-mail Paula Jean at Sound to Earth. But it's more fun to speculate.

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## fatt-dad

> Keep the thread going? Okay... how about this question. This link seems to say that F-holes were an option in 1995 on the Model 2. Has anybody every _seen_ an F-Hole Flatiron in the wild? If you find one, you should tag it so we can track its movements... it's got to be a rare beast! 
> 
> Paul Doubek


It's the Flatiron version of the Loar A5! Where for art thou?

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## Nathan Sanders

This doesn't really answer the f-hole question, but check this out at Folk of the Wood: Flatiron Picker A

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## Eric F.

I've seen those pics before. Sure looks like a Weber Hyalite to me. Maybe it never got developed at Flatiron but did once the changeover was made.

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## fatt-dad

the travesty (where is the pancake moderator), we're now discussing an archtop f-hole mandolin? Tell me it's a bad dream. . . . . 

f-d

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## Eric F.

Well, I guess we could discuss them in the context of how much better our pancakes are.

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## fatt-dad

Back to "Cadet" v. "Signature 1" series. Maybe it's just the chipboard v. hardshell case?

f-d

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## PaulD

Mine came with a cardboard case, but I suspect that was before they really started selling them. It seems like a few years later they were offering them with a hard case. Maybe Acoustic Music here in SLC, UT just didn't order it with the hardshell case. 

pd

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## fatt-dad

Fast-forward to after Gibson took over. They seemed to have these different series of instruments i.e., performer, artist, signature, whatever. Maybe under the Gibson ownership they introduced the "Cadet" (this is what i suspect) - the no-frills version of the Signature 1 series mandolin - ha, like the 1N is an all frills mandolin. The only frill that could possibly separate these two mandoilns is the type of case (in my humble opinion).

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

My 1N has nickel hardware but pearl-like buttons. I believe the cadet has the nickel hardware with plain white buttons. Other than a different finish, that is probably about the only difference. I am not sure about the case. When I bought my 1N in 1993, it came in a chipboard case. I later bought a hard shell for it from Elderly.

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## fatt-dad

So, it's all about the tuning machines? Who would have thought. . . . . .

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Of course I just had a thought and checked the pictures of the 2MC I just sold. It had the plain white tuning buttons too..hmmmmm...very interesting...and the 2MC I sold last year had the pearl-like buttons.....hmmmmm

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## fatt-dad

Well the flatiron on the classifieds today is as follows: Model number 2MW Serial # 92064587. Not too bad a price if it's in good playable condition.

fatt nothing-in-it-for-me dad

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## fatt-dad

So, I use my 1N for camping and just love it! This past weekend (even though we are in May) it was so windy that after the sunset, it was just too cold on the hands to do much playing. That's when I pulled out my finger-tip-less gloves (you know bum gloves). Well, they worked great! I had a great time playing my pancake!

f-d

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## Eric F.

Nice-looking pancake with a koa back on eBay today. I've played the mandola version in koa, but not the mandolin.

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## fatt-dad

HERE's an octave that's up on ebay. Having never played an octave mandolin, I'm tempted. . . .but, nah.

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## Nathan Sanders

Fatt,

I recently bought a Flatiron octave from a fellow cafe member. It's pretty cool. It opens up some really neat possibilities. I actually paid a little less than the current bid on the one listed now. Did you see the Flatiron octave listed that Bill Monroe supposedly played once? Flatiron OctaveI see it did not sell again. They are asking too much for it.

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## Eric F.

I followed those auctions. Jeez, just because Bill Monroe supposedly played it once it's worth two grand? Now, if he had left some of his powers inside, that's another matter.

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## PaulD

The auction f-d posted is actually a nicer looking instrument than the alleged Bill Monroe instrument.... that birdseye back is wild! Not that the other one is bad looking... it's not, but $1800 

pd

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## fatt-dad

I also like the wood on the non-monroe octave. That thing is looking at $900.00 right now. . . . .

f-d

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## fatt-dad

Memorial Day. #Every year I go camping at a real great spot outside of Winchester, Virginia. #The guy that I go with plays the old-time ban)o and I brought my 1N. #What a great time, playing all those old-time tunes. #So, last night when I'm sitting at home on my porch, I'm back at it. #I just got to say, that dang thing is one of my favorite mandolins. #I'm taking it to jams, camping, everything outdoors (just not the beach).

So, now I'm wondering. . . #Have we said all there is to say about out pancakes? #Maybe we need to change the theme: #Photos of your pancake outdoors. #Stories of your pancake.

Comments?

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]So, now I'm wondering. . . Have we said all there is to say about out pancakes?

Nah...we're just getting started

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## fatt-dad

THIS GUY on ebay is setting new territory! The bid on a pre-Gibson 1N is up to $510 and the reserve is not met?

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Did you see the pancake that sold on ebay last week or so for around $800? By the way I have a 2MW For Sale. 

1992 Flatiron 2MW Mandolin

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## Eric F.

Well, I just invested $65 in some fret work and my 2M now plays like a dream. Wow, what a difference.

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## Eric F.

I just checked out that auction from last week: $810 for a 1N. What's that about? 

Let me say that as much as I enjoy my pancake, I would sell it for $810.

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow! Have you seen the latest Flatiron 1N on ebay? It only has a few hours to go and is up over 800.00, and the Reserve is not met! I have my 2MW listed with a Buy It Now that just may work out to be a bargain.

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## Eric F.

Unbelievable. I would say the owner is seriously deluded if the reserve has not been met at $829, but I have to wonder about people who bid that high on it. Again, though, much as I like mine, if anyone wants it for $800, they can have it.

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## Eric F.

The reserve has been met and that 1N is at $850 with less than two hours left. Crazy.

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## Nathan Sanders

Unbelievable! The 1N is up to 950.00 with minutes to go. And I just sold my 2MW for $750.00. Dang! I wish I had raised the Buy IT Now a little. Oh well, I'm still happy. Eric, you may want to consider selling the pancake. Nah....keep it. I'm keeping my 1N.

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## pickinNgrinnin

$950.00!!! That has to be a record!! Hard to figure. I suppose I'd sell my 1N for $950 if someone wanted it that bad. 

Just when I was thinking the market was going down the tank.

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## Eric F.

Folks, I really like my 2M but for that kind of money I would sell it in a heartbeat and immediately talk to Chris Baird about a flattop. F5dude, I think you should be very happy. I have never seen a retailer price one in that territory.

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## fatt-dad

Apparently there's alot of extra "value" in the pre-Gibson status. Who would have thought. . . .

f-d

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## Eric F.

I'm not sure why there would be. I owned a pre-Gibson pancake and it was nice. My current pancake is from '91 and I think it's even nicer.

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## fatt-dad

Yeah, but do you think you could get $950.00 for it?

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

I think this recent sale is a fluke. The seller got very lucky. It's an Ebay sellers dream to have a some suckers stumble in and bid up your auction. I suppose some folks may put an extra value on a pre Gibson Pancake but not to $950.00

A fool and his/her money are soon departed  

Could it be that this now 15 page thread is pumping up the prices on the Pancakes

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## Eric F.

Yes, I think we are creating a pancake feeding frenzy! I won't sell until the prices hit four figures. And f-d, no, I don't think I could get $950 for mine. After playing mine a minute ago, I have to say I would be sad to see it go, too. 

I agree that these two that went for above $800 probably were flukes, though after seeing f5dude's go so quickly at $750, I have to wonder. Elderly has a '94 2MC for $685. That's the most I can recall seeing a pancake list for at a major retailer.

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## PaulD

Yeah... as much as I like my pancake that seems pretty pricey for something that sold for about $300 or $400 new and is less than 100 years old!  I suspect that it's eBay auction frenzy... all I know is I've seen mandos I would be more willing to pay $900 or $1000 for on eBay. It could be a case of Pancake Envy.

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## addcourt

I'm ejoying this discussion and really don't know much about this type of mandolin. How would Mid Missouri's compare to these. I've never seen nor played either, but it seems they might make nice travel instruments. Thanks.

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## Eric F.

Hello, addcourt. I think Mid-Missouri makes a fine mandolin. I am particularly fond of the M-11, the model that is all mahogany. I think any Mid-Mo would make a nice travel or campfire instrument. They start at less than $400 new, which I think is a bargain. I prefer my Flatiron, but some of that might just be that I like having something old that isn't made anymore. I suppose there's a little mojo in the history of the company, too. I think also that after being played in for 15 years, it sounds really nice. Also, many of the Flatirons have nicely figured backs, if you're into that. Still, I would certainly buy a Mid-Mo before I'd spend $950 on a Flatiron pancake. Either one is a quality instrument that you don't have to worry too much about lugging around with you.

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## fatt-dad

. . . . marching on to page 16. . . . . .

(and in summary, just don't pay big bucks for the "Gibson" clone of the Flatiron pancake)

f-d

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## PaulD

You know... f-d... you're largely to be credited or blamed (you all decide  ) for the "march on to page 16"!

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## addcourt

Thanks Eric--I think I'll start a search for one of these jewells. I do like the ideas you brought up re: Flatiron vs. MM. That 2MC at Elderlies looks pretty nice but I'd rather "play the fish" abit before I end the search.

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## Eric F.

Addcourt, you're welcome. I occasionally see Mid-Mos sell for $300 or less on eBay. That would be a steal. F-d's reference to the Gibson clone, by the way, was not meant to scare you off of pancakes made after Gibson bought Flatiron. Rather, there is (or was?) a similar looking mando made in Nashville essentially as a souvenir that f-d reports is a clunker.

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## addcourt

Eric: I saw that report earlier--buying one of those thinking it was a real instrument could really make for a bad day. Thanks.

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## Eric F.

Can you imagine buying one of those off eBay and finding out it wasn't really a Flatiron? Ouch.

There's a Mid-Mo M-11 on there now at $250. They don't seem to attract much interest on eBay.

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## Eric F.

I guess you never know with the 'bay: There's a D'Andrea Pro Plec pick going for $1.75 right now (35 cents from most retailers) and a Wegen "pick pouch" for $4. Go figure.

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## Nathan Sanders

I wonder what it might cost to get Gibson or even Weber to custom build a pancake, and I do not mean the souvenir clone thing or a kit. And I do mean the army-navy style. I guess I could ask Big Joe. hmmmmm..... # (getting closer to page 16)

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## Dan Adams

I don't know if I would take $900.00 for my 83' 2MB. #It sounds WAY to good to let go for under a grand. #Now thats how prices get driven through the ceiling! #Seriously, mine is a great sounding mandolin for what I paid for it, and would have to really give it serious thought before ever selling.

Never bought a mandolin I didn't keep! #Dan

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## Nathan Sanders

Several Flatirons have passed through my hands-- 2MC, 2MW, 1CH -- but I have yet to acquire a 2MB or even a 3MB. Anybody have a lead on one?

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## bratsche

Every time this never-ending thread rears its head again, I have been plagued with guilt that I haven't been playing the 1N mandola more. (In the bratsche household, no play = get rid of, since there's neither the money or space for idle instruments!) This has been doubly true since last month when I got my MidMo M-16, the Flatiron has no longer been my "go to" mandola, or even No. 2 for that matter.

You guys have no idea just how close I was to putting this instrument up for sale. But then I took it out (getting ready to take its picture for future ads), and to make a long story short, that never happened. In a moment of strange experimentation, I lowered the strings to OM tuning. It sounds really hauntingly lovely this way - lots of warm tone and sustain - even though the strings are not perfect for this setup. I need slightly more tension, and am going to experiment further, having just ordered some D'addario flat tops to try with the GDAE tuning. So, like the pardoned Thanksgiving turkeys, my 1N mandola has gotten a reprieve from the chopping, er, auction, block. It has filled a gap - I currently own no OM instruments, and got rid of the one I had, because even the short (a tad over 20") scale hurt my hand.

All of this has gotten me wondering if the "box" on the Flatiron OM is that much bigger than that of the mandola. The mandola's body measures 12.25" long by 10.5" wide by just over 2" thick. I had my doubts whether the flat pancake shape had the depth necessary for this experiment, but was pleasantly surprised, at least for a good Bach sound.

bratsche

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## Nathan Sanders

bratsche

I have a Flatiron OM and the body is a little bigger than your mandola dimensions. It is about 2 5/8" deep, 12" wide, and about 13 3/4" long (measuring on the top from where the neck meets the body to the edge by the tail piece). I've not had the chance yet to get my hands on a Flatiron mandola of the pancake variety. Should you decide to sell yours someday let me know. I might be interested.

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## bratsche

Thanks for the info, f5dude. So, now I have a mini-OM with a very short 17" scale that feels as comfortable to play as a mandola (actually, it's a little more comfortable this way), and it sounds nice, to boot. That works for me! Since I down-tuned it and the intonation has stabilized some more, it is even sounding better. I'm much less inclined to sell it than I was earlier today. I feel like I've just acquired another instrument! Life sure is funny sometimes...

bratsche

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## Eric F.

I played the 3K mandola at Gruhn's in November and regularly make sure it's still there waiting for the day my ship comes in. Or at least a spare $1,000 comes in. It had a really choco-licious kind of sound.

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## bratsche

After that description, I had to go look. Very nice - I'd be tempted too, Eric, even though I've never seen or heard a Koa instrument of any size. What's the scale length? #There is also a similar one on the Mandolin World Headquarters site that is described as having a 15" scale. Wow! That's even shorter #than the Mid Mo - I thought _that_ was the shortest scale mandola out there. And I always assumed all the Flatirons have 17" scale, like mine. Guess I assumed wrong on both counts!

bratsche

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## guitardave

Can I come in? #I played all the mandolins at Elderly last week, and kept coming back to the reasonably priced Flatiron 2MC. #The first two things that struck me were how loud and open it sounded. #It looks so small, how can it be so loud? #Then I thought, well, it must sound thin and have no bottom end (like me). #Nope, full and rich, with a normal mandolin bass. #Also pretty easy to play. #By this time I was pretty hooked. #They wanted $680 for it. #I made an offer of $625. #Nope. #So I put it back and walked away. #That didn't work. #As soon as some other folks were over looking at the mandos, I knew I'd better go grab it, and pay the piper, because it would not last long. #It came with the original hard case. #I consider it to be a fantastic bargain. #It is in excellent condition. #Definitely a keeper! #Dave

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## lucho

Bratsche: If you ever reconsider to part away from your Flatiron mandola, please keep me on your short list of potential keepers for your axe. As perhaps some of you #remember I do own 2 Army/ Navy style Flatiron axes: a 3K OM, and a 2MW mandolin and MAS keep me looking for a mandola or short scale cittern in this style to complete the family. As guitardave already commented, the tone and sheer volume of these mandos is really surprising for any newcomer. Now a question for you, how these flatiron axes compare with handmade army-navy style mandos made today by any of the few makers that keep this style on the roll:
http://www.sawchyn.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/la2/elloree/mandolins.html
http://www.oakwoodinstruments.co.uk/...e.htm#teardrop http://brunkalla.com/BOUZOUKI.html 
http://www.stuart.co.nz/
 I know bratche could say a few words about the comparison with Sawchyn.... Anybody else?.....
 #Also, maybe my list is far from complete so any luthier addition to the Army/navy roll call is welcome...
salu2,

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## Nathan Sanders

Bacorn Guitars and Mandolins makes an army-navy style:

Bacorn Guitars and Mandolins

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## fatt-dad

Welcome guitardave! You did the right thing. When I bought my 1N, I was somewhat dissappointed in that the prior owner had some refinish over a pinkey-plant blister. Then I noticed that it needed a refret. But the time the dust settled (refret, setup, purchase price, etc.), I'm $500.00 into it. I would not sell my 1N for less than you just paid and actually your a trim line above mine.

For me it quickly became a personal favorite and an integril member of the "poor-man's-keeper-collection" (PMKC).

(side note to f5dude - thanks for getting us there. . . .)

f-d

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## addcourt

Congrats fatt-dad! I've been in Boston for the weekend(stopped by Music Emporium and barely "dodged a bullet")and did not have access to a computer. You made it to page 16 and appears to still have life. By the way, I'm in the hunt for one of these things now. Regards, Mike

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## Nathan Sanders

Thanks fatt dad for the mention! I'm just glad to do my part in furthering the legend of the pancake. Wait....off in the distance....a cloud of smoke......on the horizon....look...could it be.....yes...I think I see a "17" around the bend......anyway.....

My eyes and ears are always open for a Flatiron 1N, 1CH, 2MC, 2MW, 3MB...basically any Flatiron pancake....they're out there....

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## Dan Adams

It looks like Bacorn is trying to re-create the originals. All book matched maple backs, birds-eye maple backs, and birds-eye-maple sides!!. Or is that Tiger maple, like the 3M? 

Good Luck Bacorn!!!, Dan

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## Eric F.

Bacorn's look nice, don't they? I remember lusting over his a few years ago. If I remember right, the Army-Navy was more than a grand at that point. The Flatiron is still a bargain, even as we watch prices spike. 

Bratsche, I have no idea what the scale length is on the one at Gruhn's. I'm not a 'dola guy. It felt short to me, not a stretch at all, so maybe it IS 15 inches. I'd really like to buy it and see if I could become a 'dola guy, but there's a small matter of buying a house first. 

Guitardave, welcome. And addcourt, I think I saw one on Intermountain Guitar & Banjo's site for $750. Maybe they'll come down on that price.

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## bratsche

Lucho - actually, I like the sound of my Sawchyn mandola better than the Flatiron, at CGDA tuning, anyway. It is much more subtle (I am able to get more versatility of tone out of it) and in general mellower, and I'm a mellow kind of person.  :Wink:  The Flatiron has more of a brash, in-your-face tone, or at least that is my perception of it while playing - I have never played either of them in front of an audience! Anyway, that's probably why it "works" at all in #a lower tuning. I can't even imagine being able to improvise a "mini-short-scaled-OM" from the Sawchyn. LOL

Eric - I hear ya about having more uses for your money than to shell out so much on the Gruhn Koa 'dola. But if you're lusting after the Bacorn for its appearance, I'll have to say how surprised at how much I find the one on their site looks like the Sawchyn Deluxe Beaver Tail mandola that I have. I had to do a double take! I don't know what the Sawchyns cost new these days in Canadian $$, but when I got mine they were well under a grand, and I got mine (purchased from a Canadian) for around $100 more than I paid for my MidMo, and it was and still is in pristine shape. It's a really great instrument. It has a bound and radiused fretboard, and is built with the induced arch bracing, as well as having a finer "fit and finish" than the Flatirons, from what I can tell. Anyway, they may still be a bargain worth considering.

bratsche

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## Eric F.

Bratsche, Peter's Web site lists the Beavertail mandola for $899 Canadian, which is about $720 U.S. A bargain seemingly, but those are 2003 prices. I've always liked the looks of his mandolins, and I've heard nothing but praise for his work. I'd like to have him build me a pumpkin top oval hole, but that would be a tad more than $720. I wonder what his waiting list is like.

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## lucho

Bratsche: your Sawchyn mandola has sides and bottom made of mahogany vis-a-vis the Flatiron maple back and sides axe, that would explain the mellower tone for your Sawchyn axe... I do have two other mandolas (Salterio and Breyer), one with mahogany and the other with rosewood back and certainly I do love their tones more than maple.... but for sessions I do prefere maple.... just for volume sake... 
All this talk about army/navy mandos remind me another question... Where to get appropiate hardcases for them... I do own one 2MW with an original softshell case and I would like to get a good hardcase for it, but the standard hardcases available to me here in South America or through the web don´t fit this smaller size.... It seems I would have to order a custom case. #Any suggestion is welcome.

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## bratsche

Lucho, my Sawchyn *is* maple. Very nicely flamed, for that matter. And the difference in tone between it and the Flatiron has nothing to do with volume - the Sawchyn is just as loud, but has a more easily expressive voice, if that makes sense. In contrast, the Flatiron seems to sound more similar no matter where and how I pick it - it's a little more difficult to vary the tone. At least for me, that is.

bratsche

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## Eric F.

Lucho, Elderly used to sell a case designed for the Mid-Missouris, but I don't see it on their site anymore. I would call Mid-Mo and ask them what they use. I bet the dimensions are similar. Otherwise, yes, I think if you want a hard case you will need to either get a custom or stuff a bunch of old T-shirts in a regular size case. Good luck.

It looks like addcourt won the auction for a Cadet, so we should soon have another member of the club. 

And Bratsche, if I go the mandola route I will most likely be looking for something other than maple. I want a chocolatey, warm sound. Koa or mahogany would be high on my list of back woods.

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## lucho

Bratsche: interesting what you say about your Sawchyn mandola. According to Peter Sawchyn's website the standard wood for the AN model backs and sides is mahogany.... Eric... even Peter Sawchyn sells his AN models with gigbags so I will check Mid Miss, if I could match the internal measurements may be I could adapt and fill the depth of one of their cases....

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## fatt-dad

You may also try calling TKL, Oilville, Virginia and ask whether they have the forms for the original case. I think Flatiron used Harptone cases, New York City, NY and TKL bought out Harptone and relocated the forms. Give them a call (their listed in the business white pages) and ask for customer service.

f-d

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## bratsche

Lucho, my Sawchyn must have been a custom job then, in addition to having the features of the deluxe version. I only know one other person who has one, and it's maple too, I believe, so I didn't realize that mahogany was the norm. #Guess I got pretty lucky, because not only did the seller really give me a fantastic price - but it came with a Harptone case, too, not a gigbag. I love this mandola! But I also love my MidMo M-16, which has an altogether different tone, and is easier to play because of the shorter scale. The Flatiron is fun to play with, too. #

To anyone wondering, a Flatiron mandola fits nicely in a ProTec mandolin case.

bratsche

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## fatt-dad

For the ultimate "pancake" collector - FLATIRON mandola strings. Now, it makes me wonder whether Flatiron had their own line of strings for the beloved mandolin pancake as well. . . . 

f-d

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## Eric F.

Hmmm. I don't think those mandola strings are going to sell. There's a 1N not drawing much attention on eBay. I wouldn't mind a second pancake. Then my travel mando would have a travel mando. I tried the GHS lights and like the sound very much. WIth new strings and as fret job, my 2M is singing.

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## fatt-dad

O.K. guys, am I reading THIS auction correct, is this a 1979 1N? Note that there is no "Flatiron" on the headstock, no truss rod and label saying, Backporch Productions? I think this may be a good collectable for somebody.

fatt no-i'm-not-buying-another-mandolin-maybe dad

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## Nathan Sanders

I saw that too fatt. I guess this would be from among the first instruments to come out of Flatiron. Too cool. I'd almost try to grab it, but I better hold off. I just bought a Gibson A-9 to hang out with my Flatiron. MAS has struck again.

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## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]AND THE ORIGINAL STRINGS ARE JUST FINE.

Now that's what I call getting good mileage out of your strings

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## pickinNgrinnin

OK F5dude... not that we are keeping score here or anything but how many pancakes have you bought and sold in the past 2 years??

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## Nathan Sanders

Good question pick...let me think.....I have bought and sold three 2 models and one 1CH in the past year. Before that I handled one of those cheapy, plywood pancakes, if you want to count it. What great mandolins! I'd probably buy them all if I could...ha ha ha ha ha....

----------


## fatt-dad

So, let's guess what we think it should sell for, noticing that the case doesn't seem right, but it is an early one. . . . .

From what I've seen in the last few months, I'm thinking over $500.00.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I wouldn't be surprised to see it hit the $500 area. Who knows, another case of pancake fever might strike and bump it up to the $700-$900 range. But I could see it selling for $550.00.

----------


## John Hill

I picked on a 1N a few days ago and I was impressed. Sounded loud, clear, sounds like a great blues mandolin...hmmm, another looming purchase perhaps.

...must.....fight.......M.......A......S!


John

----------


## Eric F.

John, just surrender. You'll be glad you did.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

John...join the ranks of the pancakes...you'll be glad you did. Just curious, what kind of price were they asking?

(woo hoo......page 17......keep it going!!)

----------


## John Hill

In the $400's I think, don't remember exactly. 

Ah yes, another excuse to go back and play it  

John

----------


## Eric F.

Sounds like a good price, given some we've seen lately. I suggest you scoop it up pronto!

----------


## fatt-dad

I'd say we're seeing the plus-$500.00 1N pancake in the $500.00 range when their pre-Gibson. I would think a 90s vintage 1N in the $400.00 is about right (i.e., not a screeming good deal). That said, if you buy it, you'll consider it a friend for life (at least that's how I feel).

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

CASE IN POINT

f-d

----------


## John Hill

By jove I think you got it Watson!

That's the model I played and the price is close...heck I'll have to go back now for sure!

John

----------


## Eric F.

I don't know, f-d, I think anything under $500 is a good deal. My 2M WAS a screaming good deal at less then $400, but I got it on eBay when there were several pancakes listed and it didn't attract a lot of attention. I also got lucky and made my final bid with about 3 seconds left. As you said, you'll consider it a friend for life, so at any reasonable price, this is a good purchase. Mid-Mos top out at about $500 street, and while I think they are excellent instruments, they lack the "Je ne sais quois" of a fine pancake.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

I think a 1N in good condition with a good case should sell for at least $500. I don't buy into the pre Gibson hype with regard to the Pancakes - although some sucker did in the recent record setting Ebay Pancake sale! The same folks were still in Montana making the same instruments after the big G moved to town. Well, I guess they did add a truss rod but I like that feature in my 96.

----------


## guitardave

I thought I would share some pics of the 2MC I picked up at Elderly a couple of weeks ago. #I am still likin' it, and I love those snowflake inlays.
Dave

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/barger...bum?.dir=/acec

----------


## Eric F.

Sweet. Nice-looking back. I'm glad to hear you are enjoying it. Mine has become my office mando. It's nice to be able to pick it up and play for a few minutes during the day.

----------


## fatt-dad

guitardave,

That's some nice-looking wood on that 2mc! The "bear-claw" on the spruce top is great looking.

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

That's one of the nicest looking Pancakes I've seen! What a find.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Great looking 2MC dave! Congratulations!

----------


## fatt-dad

What's the word on the FLATIRON 2K? Now that's a beautiful pancake. I can see that drawing some real attention. Unfortunatly, I'll be at the beach as this auction plays out.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Wow, that 2K is beautiful. I'm going to keep my eye on it, but I betcha the reserve is high.

----------


## PaulD

That 2K is a sweet looking mando... I like the bound pancakes (although I like my Backporch 1SH too). I bet you're right that the reserve is high.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey everybody, how about a picture of some of the Flatirons I've had. The 1N in the picture is my original. The 2MC and 1CH have both been sold. Enjoy.

----------


## fatt-dad

I really like that photo!

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Thanks dad! Several months I had the idea of creating some pictures to hang in the home and this was the result.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

A nice sale on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....75&rd=1

That was a fine looking Pancake.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

f5dude-

That would make a cool poster for us Pancake lovers! I'm going to set it as my computer's background.

Hey...I just hit 1,000 posts. Guess it's appropriate to have it happen here on the Pancake page

----------


## sgarrity

f5dude--

Do you know how many times I've kicked myself in the rear for selling that 2MC? Hahahaha

Oh well, you live and learn. Thats a good lookin' pic

Shaun

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Thanks everyone for the kind words on the picture. Actually, I have considered selling copies of it. It would make a good poster for our Unofficial Flatiron Mandolin Forum, or the Flatiron Society, or the Pancake Feeders, or the Army-Navy Brigade...or well...you get the idea...any other ideas?

That was a nice looking 2K on ebay. I was a little surprised the reserve was not higher, as I had thought earlier. I am not surprised, though, at the final sale price. I expected it to go a little higher.

Hey Shaun, yep, I sometimes kick myself for letting the 2MC go, and the 1CH, and the other 2MC, and the 2MW...oh well....ha ha ha....I'm glad there are now others enjoying them as well.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey All, I'm just checking the board from Thailand. Doesn't look like much is happening on the pancake scene. I haven't really come across any mando-related stuff yet in Thailand, but I'm keeping my eyes open. Catch you later when I return to the US next week.

----------


## fatt-dad

But is your pancake with you. . . . . . ?

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

_Khanom Buang Yuan._

----------


## fatt-dad

> _Khanom Buang Yuan._


. . . which means, "heck yeah, fatt-dad"

----------


## OdnamNool

(It's only because I want to be a part of this hystoric thread...) #Now, here's a bit of trivia...

I am actually a full-fledged, permanant member of... ehem... #"The Pancake Sisters." #I even have a membership card! #I'm _not_ kidding! #In fact... I'm on the Board of Directors! #(well... we all are... there's only 4 of us...)

----------


## OdnamNool

(However... we are not neccessarily "flat.")

In fact, our "motto" is: #(oh, and F.D...it has _nothing_ to do with mandolins...) #Our "motto" is:

*No Pancakes Allowed.* #

----------


## addcourt

OK--so now I'm a certified member of the pancake gang. #Bought a '92 Flatiron Cadet a few weeks ago and have finally taken it seriously--seems abit like a toy compared to the F5s I've been playing. #It is a perfect travel instrument and is actually a pretty good sounding mandolin with nice playability. #Also, I feel like I've done my part in keeping this thread moving forward. #Thanks for getting me involved--great value for the $$. #Regards, Mike

----------


## fatt-dad

Mike (a.k.a., addcourt),

Try those GHS strings on it. I can't remember the leading letters, but something ending in 250, like A-250 or P-250. . .? Not to add unnecessary comment, but you'll likely find that your sitting on the front porch playing the pancake and the ol' f's remain in their cases - ha. Save them for the ban)os, eh?

f-d

----------


## addcourt

f-d: I'll get some and give them a try--is Elderlys still in business? Will give you a performance check after I get them installed. Regards.

----------


## fatt-dad

> is Elderlys still in business?


Ha. I just got a set of ban)o strings from Elderly delivered yesterday along with a ban)o capo (which I can use on a mandolin too!). No problems at all. Alternatly, you may want to support www.juststrings.com - a cafe sponsor.

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

addcourt-

Now that you have your Flatiron Cadet, we can start to take you seriously  

Welcome to the club! BTW, I like D'Addairo J-62's on my 1N

Can you send a picture to the thread?

----------


## addcourt

pickinNgrinnin--thanks for the welcome. I'm MandoCafe photo ignorant at present but have help coming. When I figure it out, I'll post some shots. It's basic black topped with dark stained b/s/n. I ordered 3 sets of strings suggested by f-d and will report on their effectiveness. Regards.

----------


## Roachcoach

Hi Fellow panheads, 1988 Blackface cadet, GHS Silk and Bronze # -
 # # # (=O=)===# # # # #
 # # # # -

----------


## fatt-dad

Uh Roachcoach, Those strings are too heavy for the pancake, no matter whether you like the tone or not. Look inside the sound hole toward the neck and you should see a sticker that lists the recommended string gauges. I think the S&B set is heavier than recommended. I used to use the silk and steel and have also tried the S&B, but really like the GHS lights (something-250s). You should try them!

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey Ya'll, I'm back in the USA from Thailand. Good to see the pancake ranks expanding. I did not take a mandolin with me on the trip because I was already carrying an electric bass. I also took a Martin Backpacker guitar which came in real handy. I'll post a picture later of a little old man I met at the Night Market who builds Thai instruments, similar to mandolin but really different.

----------


## addcourt

Nice try on the 2K fatt-dad. I gave up early--would probably been more interested had photos of the koa been shown. Man this is a pathetic disease!!

----------


## fatt-dad

(to the pancake fellowship - addcourt and I were spying a 2K on ebay that went for a seemingly good price.)

Yeah, I was hoping for a "short stack", but alas, must show self-dicipline. . . .

Now where is the guy/gal that picked up that 2K.

BTW, I played my 1N tonight and again it drew attention.

fatt do-I-really-need-another-mandolin dad

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Of course you need another mandolin fatt, don't we all? Of course it's not really a matter of need as it is want....wait...strike that....it is need, more of obsession really...ha.....that was a nice looking 2K. Too bad my finances were not in shape to jump on it. Oh well. I need to break out the 1N very soon and let it ring some. I played the A-9 and the F-5 when I got home from work, but it has been a while for the 1N.....

----------


## addcourt

fatt-dad: Finally put the ghs A250s on my Cadet and you were correct--BIG improvement! I ordered ghs PF250s(Med. Lights)along with the A250s since you weren't completely sure about the letter prefix. They don't seem like they would stress the mando too much--have you had experience with Med. Lights? Regards, Mike

----------


## fatt-dad

Mike,

It's the A-250s that I've been using and I'm pretty sure I'll stay with them. I'm very happy with the "fit" of those strings with my pancake.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey fellow pancakers check out this inlaid mando I came across on ebay:

Inlaid Ebay Mando

----------


## lucho

f5dude, that mando is one of the many made at the workshop of a taiwanese inlaid artist.... Antonio Tsai.... very ornated but don´t know how it sound.... I think he makes some with a mountain banjo body shape with f holes, closer to the Army Navy body shape.

----------


## fatt-dad

Gentlemen,

Please don't make me look at that, it's so depressingly aweful.

f-d

----------


## addcourt

From an ornamentation standpoint, it's 180 degrees from my Cadet--man, I do like the simplicity of the Cadet.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I never said it was pretty, but it is interesting. I kind of doubt the part of the description that says it sounds like an A-9 though.

----------


## racuda

Believe it or not, but I just went through all 18 pages of this thread looking for what kind of strings everyone is using.

I put TI mediums on my 1-N right after I got it, about a year and a half ago. I'm still using that same set of strings. They won't wear out! 

I would like to try something different, hence my searching all 18 pages. 

I found out that fatt-dad uses GHS A-250's and f5dude likes D'Addario J62's.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

I prefer the D'Addario J62's

Check em out

----------


## fatt-dad

I prefer the GHS A-250s

Check em out!

fatt and-stubborn dad

----------


## addcourt

ditto the GHS A250s.

----------


## Dan Adams

See the Gibson Alrite in the classifieds? Not a bad deal at a mere $700. A good return on investment considering it listed for somewhere around $18.00 when it was orignally made!

Now if I live to be 120 years old that 2M will be worth..Dan

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Yep, just saw the Alrite in the Ads. Kind of nice looking. Too bad I don't have $700.00 or else I'd probably snatch it up. I had one of these for a short time that I bought from someone on ebay. It wasn't nearly as nice and needed some work. I ended up selling to the guy in Canada with Folkways. He was going to refurbish it for his own purposes. $700 for this one in the Classifieds is not that bad of a price really.

----------


## fatt-dad

WARNING! somebody is selling a pancake clone made by Gibson on the famous "auction site".

f-d

----------


## addcourt

fatt-dad: Are you sure? Man, that is one fine looking piece! Quality wood, finish and hardware. If it weren't for that steep starting bid, I'd probably wade in. How's the clawhammer coming? Regards, Mike

----------


## fatt-dad

> fatt-dad: #Are you sure? #


Yes, I had one of these and it's all laminated construction. It is a novelity piece for the tourist that passes through the Opry Mills Showplace - or so I think. I mean it plays, it just isn't the "real thing".

f-d

----------


## addcourt

f-d: Just kidding about the quality issue. Sorry, my humor can be a little dry. Regards, Mike

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey fellow pancakers, check this out. Ever seen a Flatiron 2MF? I came across it in some classified ads online. I've e-mailed the guy to see if he still has it. According to the description it is pre-Gibson, made in 1981.

----------


## addcourt

Would like to hear more about it--isn't that a year before Flatiron was founded though?

----------


## fatt-dad

Well, that's an interesting pancake! The label shows "Flatiron" as does the headstock. I tried a google on "flatiron 2mf" and got nothing. Please provide some details if they are available.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey fd,

Google Flatiron 2M-F and you will find the ad. The guy lives in Hawaii. I did receive a reply from him and he still has it and is still interested in selling. Apparently there is quite a bluegrass scene in Hawaii. Check out some of the other links on the site. He does have a picture of the headstock and it has quite a bit of finish cracking. Might be a good beach mando!

----------


## fatt-dad

Well f5dude, you going for it? I guess the finish cracking is not that much concern. Action and neck relief would be something to get some feedback on. Makes me wonder how the sound compares to the more typical sound-hole version. Maybe it's no different - I mean, it's not like your going to expect the same f-hole v. round-hole differences, I wouldn't think.

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Now that's a new twist on the pancake! I've not seen this model before. How unusual. I can't imagine there are too many of these floating around.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Well, I thought I would at least check it out, but I do not think I will buy. I mean, I'd kind of like to have it just because it is so different, but I really do not have the funds at the moment. So do not let me stop you from pursuing it. I had no idea Flatiron ever did a f-hole pancake. I wonder how the sound is.

----------


## fatt-dad

f5dude,

I sent an email (knowing your passing on this). Whether I'm willing to go to $400.00 is another question.

fatt yeah-I-just-sold-a-few-but-may-need-to-restock dad

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Cool dad. I had already sent another e-mail telling him where I was located and asking how firm he was on the price, but I have not heard back from that inquiry. Even if I had the money, I do not think I would want to spend $400.00 either. Hope it goes well for you.

----------


## PaulD

That F-hole pancake is bizarre! I've never seen one of those before. I'd like to hear it, and I'm curious if they used the same ladder bracing. Maybe when F-D buys it he can give us the rundown. 

Addcourt; that mando is the same year as mine, which I bought new in '81. See page 6 of this thread (13 pages ago? WOW!). IIRC, Flatiron started selling around '79.

----------


## addcourt

Thanks PaulD--I stand corrected. I based my comments on info from Chas Johnson's website re: the Flatiron A5-2 I've been lusting over stating that Flatiron was founded in 1982. When I read that, I thought that I had seen Flatirons earlier than that date. Anyway, I hope one of you guys pick up the f-pancake(weird to even type that). Regards, Mike

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]fatt yeah-I-just-sold-a-few-but-may-need-to-restock dad

HA!!

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey all, have you been looking at this thread concerning the return of the Flatiron name:

Flatiron Is Back

----------


## PaulD

I saw that... interesting. I can't imagine they're bringing back the _pancake_ though. New pancakes would be cool if they weren't relegated to tourist-toy status!

p did-fatt-restock-with-that-f-hole-pancake-cause-i-wanna-hear-sound-clips d

----------


## fatt-dad

Dear All,

In spite of my cunning ploy, the dude in Hawaii sold the F-hole pancake to a local. What's the odds that they'll find this place (pretty good, maybe) and then find this thread (getting slimmer) and then post (huh?).

Oh well, I'll be surprised to ever see another, but it would be interesting to get a review from somebody that's played one.

fatt still-waiting-for-a-short-stack dad

----------


## PaulD

Sorry to hear it... I was tempted to contact him and try to buy it, but until we get settled into the new house I need to watch the "toy" budget*. It's an intriguing beast. My hunch is that there's a reason we haven't seen more of them around... at least that's what I'm telling myself! 

pd

*My fiance is a mando player/OldWave owner, so as soon as we get settled I'm sure she will be MAS tolerant!

----------


## Nathan Sanders

You know, I asked a buddy of mine if he had ever seen one of those f-hole pancakes before, and he had. He couldn't remember where but he had seen one before.

----------


## delsbrother

Don't know if this has been posted before, but I thought it was very cool.. Can you name this famous Flatiron player?

----------


## delsbrother

Good Lord, have I killed the thread? Or has everyone seen this picture already? Or is everyone completely stumped? Or does no one care?

I could give you a hint but it'd have to be really, really small. 

Darrell

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Tiny Moore!

----------


## delsbrother

Aaaaaah-Haaaaa! You are correct sir! Thank you.  Please resume pancaking.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Great picture! I have not seen it before. Thanks!

----------


## PaulD

Grisman was plugging Flatiron in the early '80s, wasn't he? I recall an ad with Dawg playing a pancake... I think. Anybody have a copy of that? Or am I misremembering?

----------


## delsbrother

OK, so hypothetically speaking.. Say you were interested in a 3K mandola, hypothetically located in a well-known (and yet still hypothetical) music store. It is in apparently mint condition.. How much would you be willing to pay and not risk your hypothetical pancake friends saying, "I can't believe someone paid XXX for a pancake 'dola!"?

Darrell

----------


## PCypert

I still think it's kind of wishful thinking to charge that much. The market dictates price and that thing has collected dust for some time now. Knock 100-200 bucks off and it'd be great. Still would be a sweet play. Don't think anyone would judge you too much for getting it. I've often thought of saying forget it to the whole "great mando search" thing and bought a series of mandolin, mandola, and octave flatiron pancakes. Get a tiger mandolin, birdseye dola, and a koa octave. Be through with wants and needs forever. Also have a similar plan involving Mid Mo.
Paul

----------


## fatt-dad

I think that one of the "mando-outlets" (i.e., Elderly, Gruhn, Vintagemandolin.com) had a similar "pancake" mandola for $1,000.00. #Whether that's too much or not - who knows. #You can sit in front of a computer monitor or drive to alot of shops looking for a better value, but all the while, you'll be sipping rare scotch or burning gas. #If it's there and a good one, buy it (funds permitting).

fatt I-play-my-pancake-every-day dad

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Darrell,

I've looked at the pictures of the 3K mandola too in the well-known hypothetical music store. Even if I had the bucks, I'm not sure I would pay that much. But then again, it is koa and looks to be in great shape. I remember several months ago a store in California had a Flatiron pancake mandola for around $600.00 listed on their site. It had been in their store for a while I think. They would not budge on the price. A little while later I checked on it and it was gone. It was not Koa, though, but was in great shape.

----------


## PaulD

I say strike your best deal with the seller and if you're comfortable with the price, buy it. Don't worry about what anyone else "thinks" it's worth. Ultimately, anything that is not available in production is "worth" exactly what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to take for it. 

I can't run down to my local dealer where I bought my pancake and get a Flatiron any more, so if I want one I have to strike a deal with whoever has one for sale. That said, before I plunked down $1K on a flat-topped mando I would check Mid-Mo and other options. I don't have enough spare cash to justify paying a premium for a Flatiron just for the sake of having another Flatiron!

pd

----------


## delsbrother

> I've often thought of saying forget it to the whole "great mando search" thing and bought a series of mandolin, mandola, and octave flatiron pancakes. #Get a tiger mandolin, birdseye dola, and a koa octave. #Be through with wants and needs forever. #Also have a similar plan involving Mid Mo.


LOL, and then a Gibson family, a L&H, Howe-Orme, Larson, Gilchrist.. etc. etc. 

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I'm not sure if I was looking for reasons to buy it or reasons not to buy it.. I don't presently own a flatiron (or any acoustic mandola), but I've been in contact with a luthier regarding a flattop mandola - for considerably more money. That's what's making the hypothetical mandola so attractive right now..

Darrell

----------


## Eric F.

I've played the 3K 'dola at Gruhn's. It was there when I visited Nashville last November. They've knocked $25 off the price since my visit. I'm not a mandola player, so my opinion is not based on any particular knowledge or expertise. But ... I think there's a reason they've had it for a year. I think it's about a $600 instrument with maybe an extra $100 for the gorgeous koa. I wanted to love it when I played it, but it seemed unremarkable to me.

----------


## kyblue

Eric,

I played that one as well. I later bought a 3MC from someone here on the cafe and it is a great instrument, but the one at Gruhn's just didn't do it for me. 

Paula

----------


## Eric F.

Paula, I guess we have similar taste. Neither of us liked that mandola, and you're getting an Arches unless my memory is wrong. I'd like to get a mandola sometime, but I doubt I will ever play it enough to justify anything beyond the price of a Mid-Mo. 

On another pancake-related note, I sold my 2M over the summer and recently replaced it with a Davis flattop. I have been so busy with work/moving/renovating a 100-year-old house/getting married that I have played just enough to keep my calluses from disappearing, but so far I am very impressed with the Davis. I'm taking it with me to California for two weeks and hope to give it a good workout.

----------


## kyblue

Eric,

Yes, I'm on the list for an Arches octave. Got the Flatiron zouk to try out the 23.5 scale length, but it's too much for me, so we're going to go shorter on the Arches.

I do like really like the voice of the octave though, and can't wait to see what Chris does for me. The Flatiron sounds really nice, just wish it were easier for me to play. I'll be selling it once I get the Arches. 

Paula

----------


## PCypert

This thread is crazy....my kids will read it when they grow up...will still be going. Just need to start having them.

Paul

----------


## 8ch(pl)

Having What, Kids or Pancakes. Kids cost a lot more.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Eric F. - The Davis Flattops could be the best Mandolins out there under $1,000. I've played a bunch of them over at Mass Street Music. Excellent tone, volume and of course, Bill's workmanship is top flight. Enjoy!

This thread is getting so long that I may have already posted a comment regarding Bill's Flattops.

----------


## PCypert

I think Thile was just getting his first mandolin when this one started. 
Paul

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I wonder if the new Flatiron line coming out will include the army-navy style? (I thought I would bring up the topic here instead of the other thread where the discussion about the new Flatirons turned into a Gibson-bashing session.)

----------


## fatt-dad

F5dude,

I think that that topic was brought up on the other thread, but there was no feedback on the pancake. BigJoe referenced the A and F f-hole and the F oval hole. I can't recall whether he also referenced the A oval hole. I think that every thing that he discussed was an arched top mandolin.

What intreagues me is that the Flatiron pancake seems like an easy instrument to produce. It must have been a good design also, in that the sound/tone is there. So, you'd think for easy money, you could ramp up to produce them and make lots of new-pickers happy (even old ones looking for a cool backup). It would be great to see that there is a return of the flatiron pancake.

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]What intreagues me is that the Flatiron pancake seems like an easy instrument to produce. It must have been a good design also, in that the sound/tone is there. So, you'd think for easy money, you could ramp up to produce them and make lots of new-pickers happy (even old ones looking for a cool backup). It would be great to see that there is a return of the flatiron pancake.

Agree! Bring back the Pancake! How about it Big Joe? Has he posted on this thread yet??

----------


## spoefish

As I have mentioned before, I had a couple of Flatirons that had problems with the top cracking along the neck - I think associated with the neck coming up a bit. #I have talked to my son about this - he worked for Flatiron in 83 (and into 84 I think) and did service and assembled bodies. #He did not think it was a big problem to repair - so recently I bought a nice 2MW here for $275 - advertised with a high action and maybe needing a neck reset. #Gave it to my son a couple of weeks ago, and he was really happy. #He did not have one from his time at Flatiron, and this is likely one he might have built, or very close to it. #He did not think he action was that bad, and just took the bridge down a bit. #My own flattop is a MidMo M-3 (the walnut body one) which I really like a lot. #It lacks the fit and finish of the Flatiron, but overall I prefer the MidMO, and I do think it is built a bit better - I don't know of problems with the tops cracking as the necks come up. #I think I will finally break down and put Schaller tuners and a better tailpiece (Weber?) on the MidMo. #I love my Eastman 604 and gloss maple Weber Hyalite, but still would not give up the MidMo (my wife asked, just in case) - It is not "just" the picnic mandolin, it is a really nice mandolin with a clear bright voice and plays well, and Mike Dulak is a pleasure to deal with (as is Gianna and Weber). #I think I am actually getting over GAS - and now my nearly 9 year old daughter is starting violin (go for fiddle I told her - she loves Alison Krause and the Dixie Chicks) I play along with her - fun stuff. #Flat tops forever.

Stephen

----------


## Big Joe

As of today...and this is always subject to change....there are no plans to reintroduce the Army Navy style mandolins (pancake style). We have discussed it at times, but are not ready to proceed. We have quite a bit on our plate just getting the other Flatiron on the market. Who knows about tomorrow though. Anything could be possible!

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . at least there's hope!

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

I thought there were pancake style mandos offered to tourists at Opry Mills (everyone here seemed to think they were horrible-sounding plywood models). Aren't they Flatirons? Or do they have the Gibson name on them? Are they still available?

Darrell

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Big Joe responds to the now running 21 page Pancake thread!
Thanks for the update. Here's a vote to return the Pancake to the Flatiron line.

----------


## fatt-dad

The Opry Mills pancake has no headstock marking other than the word "Gibson" on the faux truss rod cover. I had one, it played, but was no substitute for the original pancake. I'm not sure whether you can still buy them at the Opry Mills store (I got mine off ebay). They are laminate construction and use a somewhat different structural system (by appearance).

f-d

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## BigJoe

Those mandolins were neither Gibson or Flatiron. They were called Opry Mills mandolins. The parts and bodies were from the orient and final assembly done in Opry Mills. They were pretty bad mandolins with terrible construction. We discontinued them a couple years ago. The problems they created were more problem than they were worth. Then there were the ones people put a Gibson logo on and tried to get repaired under the "lifetime" Gibson warranty that did not apply to those instruments. They carried the special 50/50 warranty. You know...if it breaks in half you own BOTH halves!  . After a few of those problems I decided enough was enough and got rid of the product. They were designed to be tourist toys but some people thought they were getting a top of the line mandolin...for 199.00. Go figure!

----------


## fatt-dad

Thanks for the reply, BigJoe. And, thanks for doing your part to preserve the integrity of the pancake.

Unfortunatly, they sell on ebay upwards of $200 to $400. On two occasions, when I've seen the bids get over $200, I notify the bidder on what they are really bidding on - and I've seen retractions accordingly.

fatt just-doing-my-part-for-the-pancake dad

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## PCypert

I see no reason they won't bring them back. There's obviously a market. It'd be kind of funny to have a straight Gibson pancake again. Back from the original. Any chance for one with a varnish finish with a radius fretboard .
Paul

----------


## telepbrman

Yep, I'm back on the hunt for a Flatiron Pancake...I'll keep you posted, dy.

----------


## telepbrman

Yep, game on, I have a 2MC on the way, and I run her thru her paces, and fill you in soon, dy.

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## Nathan Sanders

Well, I've got another one! Remember the F-hole pancake I showed you a few pages ago. I just bought one like it. According to the label it is a Flatiron 3, built probably in 1980, according to the serial number which begins with 80 (if you can go by that). It has the Flatiron label inside with the Backporch Productions on it. Here's a picture:

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Oh, and it sounds awesome and plays easy. It will probably be going on the Classifieds soon though, unless I get too attached.

----------


## addcourt

Does anyone know the wood combination used on the Montana built Cadets?  I'm guessing spruce/maple.

----------


## telepbrman

F5dude, that is soo wild looking with the "F" hole deal, how much different is it from the "O" holes that you have played in the past?

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## Nathan Sanders

I may be dreaming, but this f-hole pancake is closer to sounding like an f-model than the oval hole pancakes do. It just seems to have a "woodier" sound than my 1N. Maybe it's age of the instrument. It does put out the sound like a 1N as far as loudness. But like I say, and maybe I'm dreamin', it leans a little more towards a carved top than the other pancakes do. I'll try to post a sound clip in the next couple of days.

----------


## fatt-dad

I like it!

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Thanks dad! This one looks to be in a lot better shape than the Hawaii one that had the finish-cracked peghead. Did you notice there's no name on the peghead? I guess this would be a very early Flatiron. I'll get some more pictures posted.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Attention Pancake Society, I now have a sound clip of the 1980 Flatiron 3 with f-holes at the following link, plus a couple of more pictures:

1980 Flatiron 3 Sound Clip and Pictures

----------


## fatt-dad

And what you have there is a nice rendition of Angeline the Baker played on an F-hole pancake. Fine job f5dude!

Nice photos at your site too. I'm sure that there will be a good home for that mandolin. It seems you've set a real fair price - good luck!

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

After considerable time spent _talking_ about the Pancakes, F5dude has raised the bar and we are now _listening_ to a Pancake! I believe this is the first soundclip posted at the on going lovefest. Nice pickin there F5dude! I believe you win the award for owning/selling the most Pancakes

----------


## telepbrman

f5dude, great jam on that...and yes, it is different than that of a round holed Pancake. Great quality on that recording as well...dy.

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## Nathan Sanders

Thank you thank you thank you esteemed members of the Pancake Society! I don't know why I did not think of adding sound to my previous offerings. It's fun! How about a Tone Poems or Tone Poets project for the Pancake!...hmmmm.....let's keep rolling on to the next page................

----------


## telepbrman

I like that idea, how the Pancakes' different models sound, and the different styles is covers. #That is one thing, style: #Many see the Pancake limited to Old Tyme only, and I will say that was me at one time, yet as I play more, I see that she does keep up in a regular grouping just fine, and that the ease of playing allows you to really streatch out for a lot of music. #That cut and volume gets it on. As a side note: when did the first Pancake Flatiron come about? I went thru all of my Mandolin World News's, and saw them in there, around 1979, any info on the beginings of Pancakes for Flatiron? Because here is the deal: Why doesn't Weber come out with an anniversary Pancake? Have like the 30th anniversary N1 or something...think about how many that would sell....dy.

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## fatt-dad

One of the fellow posters on this thread has one from 1979 and it has the "Backporch Productions" lable without reference to Flatiron Mandoilns. Just don't have the time to find the post, but it's up there. . . .

f-d

p.s., the anniversary idea is a good one, but who wants to wait 'till 2009?

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I think I pondered this before, but you think a person could custom order an army-navy from Weber? Might be kind of neat. A while back I met a guy who had built himself a couple of pancakes. I don't know if he used a Stew Mac kit or did it all himself, but one was green and I think the other was blue. They sounded pretty good. I played one and it played just fine. Of course I'm still hoping the style is brought back in the new Flatiron line.

----------


## PCypert

I'm still holding out for my 4 series...varnish finish, radius board, maybe a fancy headstock inlay, etc. All for about 800 . I'm pretty mad at this forum thread though. I've noticed since this started the pancakes are creeping into the too much for what they are category. They're good and versatile and all that, but they were really good when they were going for dirt cheap back in the day when no one appreciated them. I miss those days. Saw some trashed out when in a shop for like 500. It would have been 150 a year ago. Thanks guys .
Paul

----------


## fatt-dad

No hype intended on this thread on my part. I have one pancake and it's not for sale. I also have over $525.00 in it and it's not much to look at either. I figure I'd never sell it for what I've paid for it (that is if it were for sale), but no matter, I just like it.

I think we can all recall the day when mandolins were less expensive. Knowing that, I also think it's important to recognize those mandolins that may just be worth it today. If somebody already had a "5"-type mandolin (i.e,. A-5 or F-5), and had no pancake, I'd think nothing of spending $500 to $800 getting one.

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

HERE's a bid to watch! Dismembered pancakes. . . . 

f-d

----------


## PaulD

f-d... you spend too much time on eBay!  Who'd a thunk there would be Flatiron pancake "kits" available! That is worth watching.

pd

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Yep, I saw that too. Very interesting. You think Weber or somebody else also have parts like this laying around somewhere?

----------


## PCypert

Did you see the other pancake that someone's trying to get 850 for? I bought an octave for 650 about two years ago.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Paul,
Yep, I saw the 3MB on ebay too. They tried to sell it last week but it did not meet reserve. Hey, if they can get that much, great! It could happen. But then again....

----------


## fatt-dad

> Did you see the other pancake that someone's trying to get 850 for? #I bought an octave for 650 about two years ago.


Yes, I too thought it was too rich for a 3mc - but then again. . . . . .

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

HERE's a mandolincafe thread that provides a link to get mandolin cursors for your mouse. One of the cursor options is a pancake and it's a good one!

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Check This

Someone got a good deal on a Pancake! These Pancakes seem to be showing up with some frequency on the bay

----------


## fatt-dad

What I can't believe is that the dismembered pancakes fetched over $800.00! Somebody really wanted them and feels like they must know how to bring them back to life. . . . 

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I too was suprised at the final price of the pancake pieces. I might have tried to get them if the bidding hadn't gone so high. Oh well.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Pancake scraps for $831?? What the??

I suppose they could turn out to be nice instruments in the right assembler's hands. They may wind up back on the bay!

----------


## RolandTumble

Hello, all:

Not my first post to this thread, but the only other one (so far), was back in the single digits....

I am very pleased to have my pancake back in service. I've been playing my Vega for a while now, but the 2M was calling my name. Some time back, I put a set of TI mittels onto it (that's what the Vega wears, & _she's_ very happy dressed that way)--big mistake, on _this particular_ mando. The A string intonation went south in a big way, without throwing the rest off more than fractionally. Grumph. Snark. Back on the shelf it went--it's on the not-for-sale list, even when temporarily unplayable.

Fast forward to about a month ago. Faint cries of "Play me! Play me!" were being discerned coming from that case, and getting louder. I invested in a set of JM-11s from our own Mandohack, and I'm *very* pleased. It's the Vega on the shelf for a while, I expect (it's another NFS mando)....

----------


## fatt-dad

So now I'm interested in the JM-11s. I tried the FT74s (d'Adderio) and kind of liked the feel, but not the projection. The JM-11s seem to follow the pancake gauge profile (fairly well) and I may just have to try.

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

F5Dude,

Congratulations on getting over $600.00 on your crazy f-hole pancake! Fabulous bidding on what must be something in demand.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Yep, I was very happy with the results. Part of me would still like to keep it, but I'm glad to see someone get a great mandolin. And I'll keep my eyes open for the next pancake, be it a round hole or f-hole. There has to be more f-holes out there somewhere. There seems to be a plethora of pancakes on ebay at the moment. Usual cycle though. Gotta love it.

----------


## Onesound

The prices that people are paying on Ebay for the pancakes these days just blow my mind. In many cases they are approaching a new Weber flatop Y2K3.  Just goes to show that collectability and desirability is all in the mind of the beholder.  There is a nice 2M listed now, but bidding starts at $550! Too much for me, but I bet it easily sells for more.

----------


## RolandTumble

I paid $600 for my 2M (at a brick-&-mortar, not on eBay, and it did include a receipt for $250 worth of recent work), and still consider it worth every penny. What amazes me is what old Gibson oval-As are going for....

I wasn't too impressed with the one Y2K that I've had a chance to play, but that was some time ago. Don't know about the "Y2K3", but my pancake is hands-down a better mando than that one--it's not just about collectability.

----------


## telepbrman

I picked up Guitardave's Flatiron 2MC here on the cafe and all is great. Dave is easy to work with and made things easy for me. The Mandolin was just as he said and had no suprises. As for the 2MC, very nice, loud, and tons of cool factor. They are just so easy to play and get mojo jams on...too much fun on these little guys. Now you all may recall that I had a 1N, well I sold it to my bud, he did not have a Mando, I had 4 or 5 or maybe it was 6 at the time, anyway, I really missed the Pancake, so I bought this 2MC....well comes to find out that this 2MC and my old 1N are only 17 numbers apart! Both from 94 and only 17 apart in the numbers, that is cool. Anyhow, I am back in the Flatiron deal, and especially the Pancake...fans of the pan, later, dy.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

> There seems to be a plethora of pancakes on ebay at the moment.
> 
> Why???


The prices that people are paying on Ebay for the pancakes these days just blow my mind.

And so it goes...

It's all because of this thread!

----------


## Eric F.

Well, a Cadet that was listed on eBay ended with no sale. It didn't even crack $300. Another Cadet topped out at $276 recently. So maybe those are still undervalued in the marketplace.

----------


## PCypert

I know...this thread can go on and people can keep paying those ridiculous prices. I'll buy a new MidMo or used Bill davis for these are going for. Good mandolins...heck yeah! 800 Dollar mandolins (A Style Festival, banged up A9) no way! Market may be dictating a high price on these...but the market's uneducated and silly if you ask me. I'll take a new instrument with a great warranty for half the price rather than a used one with no warranty for more.

Paul

----------


## Onesound

Yeah! #I bought mine for around $220 back in 85/86, so $400-$450 in today's dollars for a used M2 or M3 in real good condition would be reasonable. #Anything higher and I'll buy something new. #The pancakes were a great value for their price in their day. #But $850 for an M3 on Ebay today (there is one there) - I don't think so. #Course, there are a few who can and will pay just about any price to own one. #Guess that what collecting is all about. #Most antiques are simply way overpriced "old furnature" in my (worthless) opinion. #

----------


## fatt-dad

So, you're mad at us? 

Your post is kind of like a person that takes the time to go to a birthday party and then announces that they don't like chocolate cake - O.K.!

fatt I-really-don't-care-how-much-you-pay-for-your-hobby dad

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

There has been a lot of the Pancakes on Ebay because people have been paying a lot to get them! The prices may be fueling the owners to sell. The recent Cadets were very under valued IMO. No use in grousing about the prices. BTW, did you see what the Dude was selling for in the classifieds?

I'll admit this is my favorite thread on the cafe. Perhaps it has helped contribute to higher Pancake prices. The prices are up and people are buying them. It's a Pancake renaissance! Great time to own one, to play one and to sell one!

----------


## Onesound

> So, you're mad at us? #
> 
> Your post is kind of like a person that takes the time to go to a birthday party and then announces that they don't like chocolate cake - O.K.!


Sure I'm mad. Those few "buy at any cost" bidders price these nice little mandos way above us average Joe's budgets. Now, if I was on the selling end, that would be a different situation.    

BTW - I prefer yellow cake.

----------


## fatt-dad

Well, I was really jabbing at PCypert in my post. That said, I don't think that this thread or even the mandolincafe has any real influence on the prices folks are willing to spend on the Flatiron pancake. Just for the record, I've paid over $500.00 for my pancake (including necessary repairs) and I've had it for two years. I've never regretted any part of my purchase and don't really care whether I will ever get my money out of it. It has some real blemishes and it makes no matter to me.

fatt gave-up-cake-altogether dad

----------


## PCypert

I'm not mad at the post or anything like that. Just hope we promote realistic pancake purchases here as well. I was just saying one could commission a new Sawchyn for the price these things are going for. At that point they kind of quit becomming the things we love them to be. Even at 500 (I'm glad you have one you love) I'm not seeing anymore mandolin than a MidMo and when you buy a used MidMo they'll fix it for free even if it wasn't your original purchase. I love the Flatty Pancake. I'm just for supporting realistic, down-to-earth, value reflective prices for them. Maybe the tread's scope of "pancake" should expand to meet the demands of the times  . I would consider a 3 level pancake at 500 at the top of it's price point. I guess others disagree, but feel like they'd get a better mandolin from Sawchyn, others at that point.

Paul

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . . and then there's the mojo factor. 

I'll offer yet another perspective: I wizz away a few hundred dollars a month on take out lunches, fake beer (quit drinking) and (formerly) cigars (just quit). Finding an instrument that may or may not be at the bottom price is not what I do. If I "overpay" by $50.00 or $100.00, I just don't care. Here's where the problem lies: If you don't know what you want or if your too timid to return an instrument during the 48 hour trial period. I just don't know whether I would like a MidMo "better" than my pancake, but I sure know that there are folks that do. Same's true for the other makers. Every once and awhile they post about them too!

f-d

----------


## Eric F.

I think the mojo factor is what is driving the auction prices. You see the pre-Gibson pancakes getting the most attention. The listings generally harp on how Flatiron was the company Gibson couldn't compete with, so it bought it, the implication being that it then ruined it. That begs the question of why archtop Flatirons are not going through the roof. I think the answer is that there is so much more competition above $1,000. You see probably four or five pancakes for every Mid-Mo on eBay, and I've never seen a Sawchyn or Davis or Arches flat top for auction.

Oh, and I agree with everybody.  

Flatirons are nice, Mid-Mos are nice, Davises are nice, Sawchyns are probably nice, too. It's all good. Except fake beer. Yecch.

----------


## PCypert

Yeah,
There you have it folks. Advice from a guy who drinks fake beer  . 

I'll give you mojo. Just expect these to hit a ceiling and come back down. I know where one's sitting hidden on a shelf collecting dust for 350 bucks. First 50 paypal'd to me and I'll tell em where it is.   :Wink: I thought it was overpriced for the sound and looks, but looks like I was wrong. Tried to tell my wife I could resell it and she didn't buy. It's an old flatty from the Montana days. Blackface to boot.

Paul

----------


## Nathan Sanders

The Flatirons have the reputation, the history, the heritage, which today's flat tops are only beginning to build for themselves. For some it's fun to have a piece of history. Some would rather buy a new mandolin or are more concerned about price. Some are more willing to invest in a known quantity than take a risk with something which may not hold its value. Just some thoughts in the ongoing pancake conversation.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey Paul, a flatty blacktop sounds like a Cadet model and $350.00 sounds like the price range some of the cadets have been getting lately. They are still great mandolins though. I know where a new Cadet model is for about $500.00. I guess it would be new old stock. The guy is a dealer and has had it a while.

----------


## fatt-dad

> I thought it was overpriced for the sound and looks


Well if someone overstrung it with J-74s (i.e., doesn't have the currect string gauges on it), the sound/playability may not be all that impressive.

On a separate note: Old Milwalkee N.A. - all the flavor of Old Milwalkee without the alcohol!

fatt tough-crowd-shows-up-for-page-23 dad

----------


## PCypert

Yikes...if only they'd come out with a NA Steel Reserve! 

Paul

Glad you're not drinking...not trying to poke too much fun...

----------


## fatt-dad

> Glad you're not drinking...not trying to poke too much fun...


I'm WAY over that. It's giving up cigars and reckless mandolin buying that's working my nerves - ha.

fatt "mellow-man" dad

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hello...my name is Nathan and I'm a Mandoholic.

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . back to the topic at hand. #I've never played any other "pancake", Army-Navy or flattop, other than my Alvarez Martin clone (separate animal) or my Kalamazoo (very similar - sort of). #The Kalamazoo was a spruce top mahogany mandolin. #The point of all this is that I have no idea whether the other mandolins (MidMO, Davis, etc.) are "better than my Flatiron". #For the two that I once had, I liked the playability of the Flatiron over the Kalamazoo, so I sold the Kalamazoo.

Is there, and has anybody here ever play a mahogany Flatiron? 

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

You mean mahogany back/sides AND top? Or just b/s?

Speaking of cheap mahogany-ish pancakes.. Where do these things rate? Opry Mills import-quality? Better? Or worse?

----------


## BigJoe

The Opry Mills flat mandolins were not really designed for players. They were tourist items and many thought they should be professional quality instruments....for 200.00. They weren't, and we finally did away with them because they were not decent enough quality for me to be proud to let out our doors. I think having a good pancake mandolin is a good idea, but the Opry Mills mandolin was not. At least I'm honest  .

----------


## delsbrother

Hi Joe, thanks - I think you've answered here about the OM products before. What I was actually asking about were those Ozark Army/Navy Specials (click on the link). They're about $200 too, but I thought Ozark was the same group making those Romanian Troubador mandos that some on this board also liked (for the price).

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Check it out - Big Joe is following the Pancake thread. Maybe he is working behind the scenes to bring them back  

[QUOTE]Hello...my name is Nathan and I'm a Mandoholic.

Make that, Hello...my name is Nathan and I'm a Pancakeoholic

----------


## fatt-dad

My name is fatt-dad and I forgot my other flat-top mandolin. I too have (I think) Romanian flat-top, "Montana" mandolin. I forget about it 'cause beach weather is come and gone for the year. When I'm on the beach it's my favorite mandolin - ha. My "Montana" has a solid wood top (four piece) and seems to be fairly well stable. Maybe the Ozark is a good "cheap" pancake - can we get an informed report?

I was wondering whether there is/was a spruce top, mahogany sides/back Flatiron and how it may sound compared to my earlier Kalamazoo. I guess I'll never figure this out via a message board posting, but that doesn't mean I don't wonder.

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

[QUOTE= (pickinNgrinnin @ Oct. 05 2005, 21:51)]Check it out - Big Joe is following the Pancake thread. Maybe he is working behind the scenes to bring them back # 




> Hello...my name is Nathan and I'm a Mandoholic.
> 
> Make that, Hello...my name is Nathan and I'm a Pancakeoholic #


You may be right...I might be more of a pancakeoholic...oh well...it's a nice condition to have...

I sure would like to see the army-navy Flatiron back in the new line. Hey Big Joe, can a person still order a Gibson AN? I remember seeing one several years ago in a local shop. It was nice looking, sunburst I believe with a sound hole rosette and maybe some nice binding. Just wondering.

----------


## kyblue

Thank God someone just outbid me on that 1N on the auction site. I was starting to sweat. 

I think I need a 12 step program. I guess one step should be a block on certain sites on my computer. 

Please quit feeding the MAS...

----------


## Eric F.

Haw! I nearly bid on that myself, and another mando is the last thing I need. At $405, someone got a bargain by recent eBay standards.

----------


## fatt-dad

> Thank God someone just outbid me on that 1N on the auction site.


Ah, but you would have gotten a good deal and we would have had new subject matter. I would think that a pre-Gibson 1N for under $500.00 (playable and not needing new frets) would be a good deal. Unfortunatly, that mandolin did not have the original case.

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

> If we really wanted an answer to these questions, we could just e-mail Paula Jean at Sound to Earth. But it's more fun to speculate.


Well, I _have_ emailed her about this thread (she'd always been helpful in my previous inquiries about both Flatiron and Weber).

She's:

a) Aware of this thread, and interested because it pertains to early Flatiron history.
b) Answered a few of my general pancake questions, and given me permission to post those replies here.
c) Offered to answer more, as long as we're patient (as she's very busy at the moment).

So I put it to you.. Do we really want to know more from the source? Or will that kill the thread? 

Darrell

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Here's a vote to hear what Paula Jean has to say about the Pancakes. She's been following this legendary thread?? That's great. She's the best in the business.

I'm sure there will still be plenty of room to speculate after Paula shares some info.

----------


## Kilrush

> ... those Ozark Army/Navy Specials ... I thought Ozark was the same group making those Romanian Troubador mandos that some on this board also liked (for the price).


Ozark is the brand name of a UK importer, their instruments come from various sources, both in Europe and the Orient.

They have sold the Romanian "Reghin" instruments (from the actual manufacturers of "Troubadour") for many years, the Army/Navy is a more recent offering and is made in Korea.

Personally I would be wary of that model, as I have seen several with cracks developing at the heel.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Paula has always been helpful to me when I asked about Flatiron stuff. In fact I think I even put one of her replies somewhere in this thread about a tailpiece on one my pancakes. As long she is fine with posting her answers, I say post them. The more information the better. The thread will survive and continue to grow.

----------


## RolandTumble

To the best of my knowledge (and I'm not really an expert, just a long-time interested observer), there wasn't ever a _production_ Flatiron pancake with mahogany b/s, though they _all_ had mahogany necks. A possible exception is the Cadet/Scout instruments, as those were always opaque-finished because of their "lesser" woods.

----------


## fatt-dad

I say, by all means let's chronicle what Paula has to say on the early pancakes. We can still speculate, make up folk rumors and expand on the truth as it is presented to us (all in the name of civil free speach and American liberty).

Woo Hoo!!

f-d

----------


## telepbrman

What are the heavyest strings used here on the pancakes? I have my MC2 strung up with J-75's, 11.5-41. I feel it drives more, more tone...dy.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

telepbrman-

Were you not the guy who's Sweet Pea top caved in due to stringing it up with J-75's  

You have to go light on your strings Bro. These Pancakes like light gauge. Refer to the first page of this thread as I listed the recommended string guages as they appear on a label inside of the soundhole.

----------


## delsbrother

OK, here goes. I sent Paula Jean a brief email asking her whether the folks at Sound to Earth had seen this thread. Along with it I asked a couple of basic pancake questions about bracing, scales, production numbers, etc. - particularly in comparison to Sound to Earth's own flattop, the Y2K. I also asked if Weber would consider reissuing the pancake. She responded:




> Yes, we are aware of the thread running on MandolinCafe regarding the little Cadet model in the Performer Series and/or the #1N in the Signature Series, and the Gibson AN-Custom. Those instruments would be considered proprietary to Gibson. #We came up with our own preferred design in our Y2K and/or Aspen #1 or #2, and would not be in a position to consider re-issuing the former instruments. #My understanding was the little flat that is offered thru the Opry Mall Gibson Store is reminiscent of the original flat tops. #It is always refreshing for us to read the enthusiasm shared about older Flatiron instruments, though.
> 
> I can speak only to instruments made by Montana Flatiron luthiers prior to 1997. #All solid woods were used; no laminates; no plywood. #After about 1989/90, all instruments had adjustable truss rods. #All Signatures Series instruments carried a lifetime warranty to the original owner; all Performer Series instruments originally carried a one year warranty. #I am familiar with most models and specifications with little exception. #Numbers built by any builder tend to be proprietary information, and we would have no Gibson data referencing quantities. #I started with Steve Carlson in July 1991. #He had been building since 1979, and his business was purchased by Gibson Guitar Corporation in April/May 1987.
> 
> The scale length was probably 13 7/8 or there abouts. #Ours is 14". #The bracing pattern would have been considered lateral. #We're using what we call a lateral/modified X-brace in our Weber flats. #The Cadet model came into the Performer Series about 1987. #You might be able to reference Mandolin Brothers, Ltd historical data, as a 1989 catalog indicates the Performer Series itself came into being in 1987. #The PX 1917 and Cadet were plain with no binding. #The Gibson AN-Custom built by Flatiron was a very high-end, ornate flat top.
> 
> Our string choice for our mandolins today is GHS A270's. #I simply do not remember the strings used prior to the Gibson Guitar Corporation purchase; but we did use Gibson strings after the purchase, as they had their own String Division in Elgin, IL. #
> 
> Our instruments today showcase the integrity of craftsmanship that has filtered down over the years to our luthiers today. #We've taken the Steve Carlson/Flatiron era and brought it to an even higher level of integrity in craftsmanship/tone/playability/esthetic beauty, etc. under the guidance and direction of Bruce D. Weber. #It is both a pleasure and a privilege working with him and providing thousands of players an exceptional line of acoustic instruments at a very fair price, embracing customizations to create personal dream instruments.
> ...


Of course I then fired off whole bunch of questions that I'd cut and pasted from this thread!  She responded she was interested in answering as many as she could, but it might be a while before she had the time to get to all of them. 

So there you go.. If there's stuff you want to know, fire away! Hopefully Paula Jean will consider posting directly to this thread.

Darrell

----------


## delsbrother

Here, I'll start:

Does anyone have pics of a Gibson AN-Custom?? 



Darrell

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## Nathan Sanders

I do not have pictures of a Gibson AN-Custom but I saw one once at a store. It was pretty cool. Imagine a sunburst pancake with sound hole rosette, and I think it had binding at least on the top, maybe back too.

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## fatt-dad

> What are the heavyest strings used here on the pancakes? #I have my MC2 strung up with J-75's, 11.5-41. #I feel it drives more, more tone...dy.


I've quoted this message for one important reason: To ask whether this is why BigJoe sees "problems" with the mortise and tendon neck joint? I mean when the sticker on the inside of the instrument actually gives the gauges and folks put the heaviest string offered on the little things - no wonder there are neck problems. Please consider using the GHS A250s (or some other equivalent).

I also want to thank Darrell for going the extra mile on learning more about the pancake. Now we have some insight on the difference between the performer and the artist series.

On the matter of the Custom Gibson, there was on on Ebxx that was real fine looking - I wanted it. Unfortunatly, it went for a pretty penny (like maybe $800.00).

f-d

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## delsbrother

Really no problem, F-D. As others have pointed out throughout this thread, Paula Jean's an incredible source of first-hand info, and she has always been just an email away.

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know if the pancake 'zouk Thile is playing nowadays is a Flatiron? Or is it a Brunkalla (sp)?

----------


## telepbrman

Ok, I will back off the heavy strings...yes the pea caved in, yet, I removed the strings, went into the bathroom with the shower on hot, so there was a lot of steam around, and gave it a few tugs to lift the top a bit. All's mello now, lights are the game plan...thanks, dy.

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## pickinNgrinnin

FD - Interesting question regarding the wrong string guage and "problems" with the Mortise and Tenon neck joint. I too wonder if that could be a contributing factor.

Great info by Paula Jean!

There you go dy - you are on the right track now!

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## bratsche

Completely ditto the "light strings on flattops" advice! I had two similar experiences on purchases of mandolas, my Flatiron pancake and my MidMo M-16. #Both were previously owned, and in both cases, the sellers told me they were great instruments, and praised them to the skies. True, but when each arrived, you'd have never known it. #Both were outfitted with the heaviest, awfullest strings you could imagine, and sounded choked and lifeless until I changed them. #Not to mention that the Flatiron's strings were so tense that they'd eaten down through the ebony nut in several places and despite the extremely low action, they still felt like cheese cutters even to my callused fingers. I suppose I am fortunate that there was not yet any neck warping or top cracking on either instrument. I am convinced that if either of these sellers had ever used proper strings on the instruments, they might likely have been so "wowed" by the sound that they wouldn't have sold them... so their loss was my gain!

All that said, despite their similarities in this regard, my Flatiron and MidMo mandolas couldn't possibly be any more different from each other. They have nothing in common other than being flattops. ;-)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if that instrument being played by the guy called "Tiny" a couple pages back is a mandola or a mandolin?#If it is a mandolin, then he really *is* tiny!#With reference to his size, the instrument looks about the same proportion that my Flatiron mandola looks on me. (Not that I am tiny, but I would be small if I were a guy. ;-) )

bratsche

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## delsbrother

Yes, I think that is a mandola.. I guess that's another question for Paula Jean! Also notice the picture is from the Backporch days.. Does this mean Bratsche will soon be taking up Western Swing? 

Darrell

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## telepbrman

Ok, I did finally swap out the strings on the MC2, I did the GHS Medium Light 11/11 16/16 24w/24w 38w/38w and I know this is still heavy compaired to the inside sticker, it is not the J75's. I will be honest, I can't tell the diff on these Med Lights to the heavies, and I like that due to the possible damage on a flattop. If there is a tone difference, it maybe a tad less bass-ish, but all is good...Last item, I bought a t-shirt from that Bar in Cleveland, Flatiron Irish Resturant & Bar, to match up with the Mando, later, dy.

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## telepbrman

I was wondering about a hybrid deal, special order a Weber Aspen with round hole, aka current Pancake via Weber? Any thoughts on this? Later, dy.

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## Nathan Sanders

Here's a stack of pancakes, taken just before I shipped off the f-hole.

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## fatt-dad

What a nice family!

(on the matter of a special order pancake from Weber, ala 1N, I think from an earlier post it won't happen. The design went to Gibson with the Flatiron purchase - what a shame.)

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Thanks!

I think it would be neat to order a 1N from Gibson with the coloring, finish, and binding of an A-9. I guess really it would be more of a 2M than a 1N. By the way, did you see the Gibson AN in the Classifieds?

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## telepbrman

f5--What is the long neck Flatiron? Mandola? Thanks, dy.

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## fatt-dad

> Thanks!
> 
> I think it would be neat to order a 1N from Gibson with the coloring, finish, and binding of an A-9. I guess really it would be more of a 2M than a 1N. By the way, did you see the Gibson AN in the Classifieds?


I bid on one of these last year (ebxx) and wasn't the winner, but loved the look of it. The one in the classifieds looks to be the same instrument (or a brother/sister). Using the currency converter the price of 975 euros (i.e., $1170.00) seems somewhat agressive, but who knows?

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Tele,

The long neck Flatiron is the Flatiron bouzouki. It has a great sound. In fact, I bought it from a fellow cafe member.

Yep, fattd, I thought the price was little agressive too for the AN. But, like you say, who knows? I remember seeing one in a guitar store a few years ago. I might have to check it out and see if they still have it.

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## telepbrman

F5--That Flatiron bouzouki is cool, can you use a capo on it to make a fake mandola? Thanks, dy.

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## Nathan Sanders

Tele,

I suppose you could do that. I hadn't thought about it. I currently have it tuned like a mandolin, so I guess you could capo up to the fifth fret and get a mandola tuning.

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## Markelberry

Ok Ive read all of the post on this subject and now I have the fever I located one in near mint condition in hard case an 1982 1N for 750.00 I know there might be a better deal somewhere any thoughts on the price? Mark

----------


## fatt-dad

Markelberry,

Well, you pay for "mint" condition. I figure that my pre-Gibson 1N would be properly priced at $550 or $600 and it has quite a pick rash (more like a blister) on the front. It also has the original case, but it too is worn. I would think the $750.00 is a little high, but looking and fretting over an ebay find may wear you out and not without some risk.

Another perspective is to look at the price of a comparable modern flat-top mandolin. To go with a Davis Flattop you'd be in the $800 to $900 range and the MidMo would put you in the $600 to $700 range (with a proper hard shell case). The pre-Gibson 1N will have some mojo over either. That said, if you have the patience, you may be able to find a pre-Gibson 2- or 3-series pancake in the $750 range - whether it's "mint" or whether you have the patience to shop is another matter.

The way I would see it is what's the price of shopping, hunting and uncertanty considering that you've seen the "mint" 1N and (presumable) you like (love) it!

good luck.

f-d

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## Markelberry

Ive seen the mandolin not in person the photos are great,as described have not a chance to play it I would have to buy it first. Would you not agree the consistancy of the pre-gibson flattys are quite good? It is being carried by a well established music shop.

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## pickinNgrinnin

I've played a few of these and I've found the tone to be pretty consistent from Pancake to Pancake. The asking price seems a bit high for the one you are looking at IMO. It would have to be in mint condition - both Mando and case + being a 2N or 3N to get up in that price range. If you are patient, you can find them for less than $750. Even with the pre-Gibson date, it's on the high side. Personally, I don't value a pre-Gibson Pancake over a Gibson Flatiron Pancake. They were made in the same factory by the same people. YMMV.

M.A.S.ing for a Pancake. You just welcomed in the Jr

----------


## Markelberry

Yeah I know  its a sickness and I cant get cured!

----------


## racuda

> Ok Ive read all of the post on this subject and now I have the fever I located one in near mint condition in hard case an 1982 1N for 750.00 I know there might be a better deal somewhere any thoughts on the price? Mark


I bought mine in February 2004 on eBay and paid $255. It's not "mint" but not too bad either - a couple of minor dings and light scratches. It came with a non-original case that is too big. Someone defaced the label by writing their name with a Sharpie over the serial number (maybe it's hot?).

It almost plays itself and sounds much better than it has a right to. I think it is worth double what I paid ( I wouldn't sell for triple).

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## delsbrother

I guess it is a Flatcake after all.. But is it a'Zouk or OM (i.e. what scale)?

Darrell

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## Nathan Sanders

Great picture! It looks like the zouk to me. And it looks the like one he plays in the video for the Smoothie Song, which is probably what they were playing when this picture was taken. There was a sunburst Flatiron zouk on Ebay several months ago.

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## telepbrman

Mark, I think the consistancy between Flat's are fine. I think $750 is a bit steep, unless it is ultra mint. I have made purchases and trades and lost money in doing so, so my advice is to hold out just a bit more and get your hands on one. Yet if that store takes trades, it may lower the price on you a bit...later, dy.

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## bratsche

I've recently committed what some of you would call an act of heresy, but frankly, it feels wonderful! As if tuning my 1N mandola as an OM wasn't radical enough, let's say it can be #surprising what the electricity-less, Internet-less isolation of post-hurricane life can do to both the imagination and the will. #

After becoming more familiar with this fine instrument than I had ever previously been, by learning and committing to memory the rest of the Bach 3rd cello suite on it (I had previously only known the Bouree movements from that work), I decided one fine morning to do what I had always wanted to do with the slow, thickly lacquer-laden neck - I stripped it down to the bare wood! #The result felt so heavenly by comparison that I took things a step further and slathered Citrus stripper all over the back and sides. I could never stand how that damned shiny finish looked anyhow, and the fact that the back maple, apart from still being fish-belly white after 9 years of life in spite of the spruce front being nicely tanned several shades darker (an instrument whose back is much lighter than its front is just SO aesthetically wrong, imo!) also had black stains from when some previous owner had put it on a rubber or vinyl stand. #

It took a full 3 applications of stripper to get off all that mess! #But when I did - oh, my! # The tone I had loved with the OM tuning on this mandola just got so much better after all that goo was removed! #And how could it not? I think the sustain increased by another 50%! #And the maple figure became much more pretty and pronounced even when stripped bare than it had been before. #(I am beginning to hate, yes, HATE nitrocellulose lacquer!!) #There then remained only one thing left to do. #Yes, I de-strung the mandola and removed the tailpiece, and stripped the front as well. #I always hated the way the top got all groady and fingerprinty-looking and hard to clean, as well as the fugly-looking clear stick-on pick guard #that a previous owner had stuck on, that I had no use for, and that I could never even slightly lift, despite applying heat to it several times. #Truth be told, I never could stand the finish on this thing at all, but just the sound and the inherent potential of good looks beneath the horrors of that awful coating. #So off it came!

I am doing nothing to the top except a few coats of hand-rubbed tung oil for protection. #The maple back and sides I have stained just slightly to make it a shade darker than the top, but still keep it within the designated natural "N" range using (horrors!) a Minwax product that does it all - stains, seals and varnishes. #But since I am a Min-imalist (ha!) anyway when it comes to finishes, I doubt 2 coats of that rubbed in by hand will do any harm. #And I love the way it looks now! #Very MidMo-esque. ;-) #I can't wait until it is thoroughly dry enough to string up again. # My mouth waters at the prospect! #

Some will no doubt say that I have ruined my Pancake's original collectors' value, but seeing as I paid just $290 for it, it's perfect, and I have no intention of ever selling it now, I might as well have it the way I like, right? #If any of you disagree, you can just blame Fred Flintstone's windy wife, Wilma. # And now my mandola (a/k/a world's smallest, shortest scale OM) looks like new again, only better (to me)!

Just got my Internet access back, btw.  :Wink: 

bratsche

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## telepbrman

bratsche---That is 100% cool in my book. I am all about playing the instrument, making it your own, making it better to you, so yeah man, rock it...we know the other side, but rock it brother. I'd love to see a pic or two. And if you do need to send her up the road, let me know, I'm in. 

I have guitars, Mandolins, and Banjo's that I have done mods to or had them done. All to improve playing and feel and tone. Yep, I have lost $ on trades and sales due to mods, but the instruments inspire me to play more when they feel and sound how I want. It is simple to me, mod that sucker and rock out. My 2MC has that neck feel...you have motivated me to do some research on the unfinished neck theme, I'll keep you posted.....dy.

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## Nathan Sanders

bratsche, that sounds interesting. I know we'd all love to see pictures sometime if possible.

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## delsbrother

Just curious, but wouldn't tung oil be even worse a finish for an acoustic instrument (tonally)? Does any professional luthier use it?

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## pickinNgrinnin

bratsche -

OMG! HERESY! 

OK, just kidding. That's an interesting project and it sounds like you are happy with the results. I have a pretty light satin finish on my 1N. No need to strip here.

Send a report when you get it up to playing speed Good to hear you have your electricity back

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## delsbrother

And on the other end of the pancake aesthetic spectrum... 

The elusive... 

*Gibson Army Navy Custom!*



In our own Classifieds, to boot. Follow the link there to this site for more interesting A/N custom pancake pics.

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## pickinNgrinnin

The Gibson pancake on that site sure is purty! Top O the line.

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## bratsche

It turned out great, both tonally and in the looks department! Got it strung up now, and can't wait for it get re-accustomed to strings and to hold its intonation better (I had to put the old strings back on, as they're the only ones I have). It's a lot more "lively" now than it was. #I can feel lots of vibrations through the neck and body that I hadn't been aware of before. If someone drives down the street with a boombox booming, I can feel that through the instrument too! Ornaments of 3 and 4 notes are a lot easier to make sound. And I suspect the action is even lower now than it was, which is one thing I hadn't counted on. Who would think of the finish as contributing to an extra .5mm of height at the bridge? #

Sorry there won't be any pictures for a while, but my camera gave up the ghost without warning (no Wilma aftermath pics either; sigh!) #And Doug, I'm a sister, not a brother. ;-) #

Delsbrother - I wouldn't even call what I did with the tung oil a "finish", but just a waterproofing, actually. I didn't let any build up, as my goal was an "unfinished look" finish. I took a small amount, rubbed it in evenly everywhere with my hand, and wiped off the excess with a paper towel. The next day I did the same thing again. The top has no more sheen now than it did when it was stripped, but water will bead on it. It doesn't need any more protection than that, the way I play. I have no idea if anyone else uses tung oil, but most people out there seem to be more fond of finishes than I am.  :Wink:  The back and sides with my Minimalist-wax finish are very thin coats too, and have only a slight satiny sheen.

bratsche

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## Eric F.

I believe tung oil is often used on necks by people who remove the finish from them. Bratsche, I'm glad to hear the experiment was a success. I hope you're getting life back to normal. My friend in Hollywood lost all her grand old trees, but at least the house was unscathed.

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## Eric F.

And then there's this pancake style up for auction.

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## Dan Adams

Wow! I didn't know Kentucky tried to jump the retro bandwagon in the early 80's. It probably plays and sounds just fine. Who's going to start the 'Post a Picture of My Pancake Thread?' 

Is that there a tennis racket you're travlin with? Dan

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## mandocaster

I bought a 1CH mandola and a 2MB mandolin from a friend today. The mandola has a uniform brown stain, and the mandolin has a reddish brown stain. These are Gibson era, I think. Anyone familiar with the models?

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## Nathan Sanders

Mandocaster, here's a link to a page I have set up for a Flatiron 1CH mandolin I sold some time ago:

Flatiron 1CH

Wow, I'd really like to see the 1CH mandola and the 2MB mandolin. If you are planning to sell either anytime, I'd be interested.

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## mandocaster

I'll post some pics when I get home later. My mandola looks identical to the 1CH mandolin you had. I read somewhere that the "CH" stood for "chocolate".

Thanks for the interest. I did buy the 2MB on a lark because the former owner offered to sell it to me along with the mandola for a reasonable price ($400 for the mandolin, and it's quite clean). I figure I will keep it for an outdoor gig, i.e. renaissance festival, mando. My Givens is getting a lot of wear and tear.

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## Nathan Sanders

Yep, I'd always understood that the "CH" stood for "chocolate." I sometimes regret selling that 1CH. It had such a nice sound, but I sold it to someone who is getting great use out of it. I have yet to get my hands on a Flatiron mandola though.

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## mandocaster

Here is the front of the 1CH mandola and the 2MB mandolin

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## mandocaster

And the back...

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## Nathan Sanders

Oh man, those two pancakes are beautiful! Does the CH model have a glossy finish?

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## Eric F.

Yes, very nice. I have incipient 'dola lust.

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## mandocaster

They both have a glossy finish. 

I ordered a set of LaBella mandola strings from Just Strings. They were the lightest non-Thomastic set available. The TI's are $41 and someone said that they were too short for a 17" scale mandola. The LaBellas have .019 wound A's, which is pretty wierd. I figure if the intonation is too different from the compensation of the bridge, I can replace them with loop plain 12's

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## bratsche

> They were the lightest non-Thomastic set available. #The TI's are $41 and someone said that they were too short for a 17" scale mandola.


Urban myth? I use TIs (the 164 "alto mandolin" set) on my 17" Sawchyn Beavertail, and they fit just fine and sound great. #And $41? You must be referring to their "Mandola" set, which is for octave tuning. #That too would work on a 17", but probably not much longer, pancake scale. #BUT they would have to be used for octave tuning. #Trying to tune those to CGDA would be a kiss of death for a pancake neck/top - those strings are like ropes! #They are too short for what pankake aficionados would consider "normal" octave scales, but were made with European shorter scaled "mandolas" in mind. And, as noted, they're pricey - which is why I use D'Addario flat top mandola strings for octave tuning on my 17" Flatiron 1N instead (and again, wouldn't even use those for CGDA tuning - too much tension for this type instrument!)

bratsche

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## mandocaster

Where do you get your T-I 164's?

Have you tried the Labella mandola strings? I ordered the bronze wound version.

What is a good stock pick in today's uncertain market? What is the velocity of a European swallow.

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## RolandTumble

I put a set of TIs (I don't remember the number, or where I got them, but the seller, at least, called them a "mandola" set), onto my 17" Trinity College mandola (japanese), and they were _barely_ long enough. The D strings _just_ pulled the wrap into the nut slot once they were up to pitch (the other strings were fine). 

However, this 'dola has a Gibson-style tailpiece, where the loop anchors are down by the endpin. The Flatiron pancake (scallop shell), tailpiece puts the loop anchor right at the edge, leaving just that much more string "free" to reach the nut. I've thought about replacing the TP with one that moves the anchors even closer to the nut, such as any of the Allens or the Orrico. But I'll prob'ly do that upgrade to my pancake mandolin first, since it gets more playing time....

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## bratsche

I got my TI 164s from Mandohack Ted... he gave me a great deal on his last sets in stock, since he had had problems with people returning them due to size misunderstandings, so I guess those do occur... he did also say that he'd be able to reorder them on request (I don't know their current cost).

Roland - all my tailpieces are the 2-piece kind; even my Flatiron 'dola, fortunately (I don't think I'd have kept a clamshell on there, personally, as it would leave some nasty impressions in my arm since that's where it rests, which is the main reason I prefer smooth tailpieces!) and the 164s are fine with them. I just don't have to cut several inches off the top end, like I do most other brands. But the top D string wrappings (on the Sawchyn) clear the nut by around an inch or so. It'd be the same on the Flatiron, since they're so similar in size and design.

bratsche

Edit: #Re. LaBella strings - nope, haven't tried them - they aren't flat-wound, are they? #I found that all the finger-whooshing noises from round-wound strings just annoyed me too much, so I now just use flat-wound ones.

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## mandocaster

AAARRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

I put the set of LaBella mandola strings on my new 1CH and one of the D strings broke (at the tuner) before it got to pitch. I don't feel any rough spot on the post or the edge of the hole. I am guessing that Just Strings does not have a pile of La Bella loop end singles lying around, but I will give them a call.

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## Markelberry

Anybody see the 82 2k on the auction site right now? Ummm!

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## Markelberry

WHen I purchased my 84 jr a cpuple months ago the original owner sent me the full Flatiron broshure from 84 with color pictures of all there models options pricing and gear articles from frets on rating its pretty cool.

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## delsbrother

Got a scanner?  :Wink:

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## Markelberry

yes we do,Ive never used it,but my sweetheart could show me.

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## Eric F.

Mandocaster, I have bought three sets of LaBella mando strings and broken so many that I've never actually gotten a full set on a mando. Supposedly they have fixed the issue, but I'm wary. I will say that I have been very happy with LaBella strings on my tenor guitar.

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## Markelberry

Okay I think I have it. I thought you lovers of the flatiron might enjoy these from an 1984 broshure I have if you can see this and want more let me know. Mark

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## Greenmando

I just spent the last few hours reading the 26 pages on the pancakes, time to go to bed now. After watching this thread for over a year I thought I should read it. Hmmm, I have already emailed that seller on that 2K.

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## Markelberry

Im just curious there is a 2k flatiron on e-bay seller claims its signed by Bruce Weber although I can see this nowhere on the label they claim all 2k mandolins were signed by him. All I see is hanmade in Bozeman Montana by backporch productions?

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## Greenmando

Ok, is there a problem with this one? I see that even Fatt Dad withdrew a bid.

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## Greenmando

Oh I see.

A: ALL BIDDERS! THERE IS AN ERROR IN THIS LISTING. THE MANDOLIN DOES NOT HAVE THE WEBER SIGNATURE I DO REGRET THIS ERROR AND YOU MAY CANCEL YOUR BIDS IF YOU WISH. BIGDENX

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## delsbrother

Thanks Markelberry! Neat to see the "official" explanations of the letter designations.. (Still haven't heard back from Paula Jean) 

Interesting to see:

- Mandos, mandolas, and OMs - but no separate listing for 'zouks. Are we sure they made both (i.e. two different long-scale pancakes)? Or is one person's OM another's 'zouk?

- OMs only in level 3 ornamentation.

- Ebony fingerboards on 2s and 3s.

- Adjustable bridges and pearl inlaid logos as options.

You said you had some color photos too - were there any pancakes in those?

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## Nathan Sanders

Zouks are under OM. Look in the parentheses.

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## delsbrother

What I'm saying is I thought (based on previous posts here) that there were two distinct instruments: an OM and a Bouzouki (the 'zouk presumably having a longer scale). This catalog seems to say there is only one instrument - but people call them different names. At least that's how I read it..

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## Nathan Sanders

Ah, I understand.

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## RolandTumble

Interesting that the inlaid logo is an option. On my '81, the front of the headstock is nekkid, with "The Flatiron" stamped/branded onto the back of the headstock. I kinda like it that way....

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## bratsche

Even more unusual that an adjustable bridge is an option - for $15 more! #Yikes! #I would prefer the one-piece one hands down, any day - or even to have a couple of them if humidity changes demanded it (I never had that problem with a viola or violin, though).

bratsche

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## Markelberry

Im going to post a few pages of there items for you all that came in the broshure hopefully they will look good.

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## Markelberry

and again

----------


## Markelberry

another

----------


## Markelberry

again

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## Markelberry

some more

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## Markelberry

another

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## pickinNgrinnin

Great addition to the thread Markelberry! 

Wow, the sunburst finished Mandolins and Mandolas look pretty ugly in the pictures.

I always thought I had an Ebony nut on my 1N and now I know I do! 

Where has Fatt Dad been hiding???

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow! Thanks for adding this brochure to the thread Markelberry! If you ever want to part with this brochure, I would be interested.

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## Markelberry

Maybe you can see this.

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## Markelberry

Im glad you like it. I thought it was pretty cool when he sent it to me. F5dude help me find a pancake and its yours  Markelberry

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## delsbrother

Cool cool cool!

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## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]F5dude help me find a pancake and its yours Markelberry

Heck, he probably has 3 or 4 sitting in his closet

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## Nathan Sanders

Well actually, I do not have any extra pancakes at this time, but that could always change at a moment's notice. I did notice the 2K is back on EBAY (Item number: 7368981407).

Markelberry, I'll keep my eyes open.

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## JeffS

Has this thread surpassed the "thinking about a BRW" thread yet?

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## Markelberry

You know I was watching that I questioned the sellers description (signature Weber)he told me all 2ks had it. One thing led to another and two hrs. before it ended everyones bid was cancelled. He then offered it to me because the winning bidder declined because it wasnt signed.He wanted me to contact him privately for a buy it now. I still dont know if it is legit,everything looked okay but it gives me a funny feeling. If anyone is watching and has an opinion on this let it be known.

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## Markelberry

Also I noticed in the sellers feedback the guy who won the mandolin the other day and cancelled his bid is already in the feedback calling it flawless transaction,Im confuzed.

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## Greenmando

> ,,,He then offered it to me because the winning bidder declined because it wasnt signed.He wanted me to contact him privately for a buy it now. I still dont know if it is legit,everything looked okay but it gives me a funny feeling. If anyone is watching and has an opinion on this let it be known.


Something stinks here. He did not use the ebay "second chance offer", but instead wanted to make his own private sale. Not really wrong but just fishy when you add in the positive feedback.

I had asked him a question before he cancelled the bids. I asked him if the mando was made with Koa wood. He answered me that he did not want to venture a guess, that the pictures should be enough to go by. I though the pics were a bit fuzzy for any real id, the pic of the neck was the best.

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## Markelberry

So I might ask is it true with the paypal buyer protection if you send your money and nothing happens your reimbursed?

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## bratsche

No personal experience, but I wouldn't rely on it. #Much easier to pay with paypal using a credit card, then put in a dispute with it if something goes wrong. That has worked well the 2 times we've had to do it.

bratsche

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## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]Has this thread surpassed the "thinking about a BRW" thread yet?

So what's your point?

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## Greenmando

> So I might ask is it true with the paypal buyer protection if you send your money and nothing happens your reimbursed?


With my experience with paypal I would say no. Paypal is owned by ebay and they go to extremes to protect the seller.

I had a few purchases go bad when I used paypal with my checking account, in every case I lost my money. Paypal said they would investigate it, there was no results.

In every case since then I have used my VISA card with paypal. Paypal always push for me not to use the VISA and state how good they are. My account with VISA has backed me up, I keep records. After a few questions and answers with the staff at VISA they reverse charges. Paypal has sent me a email each time telling me I should have called them (I have never found a phone # for them yet).

Am I the only one who has found it odd that paypal offers protection (or a paypal warranty) for a extra charge.

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## Markelberry

I was under the assumption that by using paypal they claim I get upto a 1000 protection in case I pay and never recieve an item.

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## spoefish

Arrrrgh, you folks are making me crazy. #Every time the question of how is a Cadet different from a 1N comes up, the answer just sort of slips away. #Well now I have a reason to want to know - just bought the 92 Cadet on E**** Flatiron Cadet . #Bought a 2MW a while back, but ended up giving it to my son (most likely he built the body while he was working at Flatiron at the time it was made). #BTW, this is a great thread, and a lot more fun than working. #Thanks for all the information.

Stephen

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## pickinNgrinnin

Looks like Markelberry joined the club. See here heck, it looked like Markelberry and Fatt Dad were slugging it out down the stretch! Speaking of FD....where have you been?

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## RolandTumble

> Arrrrgh, you folks are making me crazy. #Every time the question of how is a Cadet different from a 1N comes up, the answer just sort of slips away. #


Seems like I've commented on this before, but here goes:

I can't tell you all of the differences, but I _do_ know that the Cadets all had opaque finishes (at least on the tops), and shorter warranty periods--think it was one year instead of (lifetime? (of the company, as it turned out...)). 

They were all solid woods, all with mahogany necks. Looking at the pictures of yours, the Cadets may have had mahogany back & sides, as well (unless that's stained maple--hard to tell). The numeric line got fancier--both in trim and in wood figuring--as the numbers ascended, so the 1N was the bottom of the range (the "N" stood for Natural (finish)). The Cadets may have been the answer to "How do we use up the wood that's structurally sound, but not even pretty enough for the 1 series?"

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## spoefish

Thanks, and yes it looks like the sides are mahogany and the back very plain maple. #I can live with that for $310 - and the black top is actually sort of neat. #Talked to my son tonight and he had done some work (lowered the action via taking a little material off the bridge) on the 2MW I sent him and says now it plays and sounds great. #In 10 days I will be in NC and we can do duets with the family of pancakes. #Now I have to decide if I really need my 76 Martin Style A as well. #I expect it will still be sweeter, but can you own them all (maybe)?.

Stephen

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## Markelberry

It appears I got a good buy at 525.00 with original case. They retailed new for 396.00 in 84 plus 70.00 for the case. I cant wait to hear it everyone talks how good they sound for there size,and the koa wood will be nice Ive never owned a masndolin with this type of wood. Wasnt 1982 there first year of production?

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## RolandTumble

I'd say you did, indeed get a good buy (though other posters in this thread might disagree). As I've said before, I paid $600 for my 2M (Maple), with OHSC & a ~$250 "repair" (action adjustment) receipt, from a brick-&-mortar seller. Never regretted it for a moment. 

I have an acquaintance who owns a 3K--in fact that's how we met. I noted the rosette and the color & asked "Is that a 3K?" His response was along the lines of "Wow, you know that???" He told me that as soon as he first played it, he knew he'd found his lifetime companion.... Also a story about stepping on it on a camping trip, totally shattering the top, and being completely heartbroken 'til it got repaired.

I can't run & look at the moment, but I _think_ mine's an '81. It's quite possible that '82 was the first year for koa, though....

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## Markelberry

I have a full color broshure that is posted here but there are no examples of the 3k or otherwise what is the differece fro the 2k is it soundhole rosette? What is it you like about your mandolin so much?

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## RolandTumble

It's a simple scheme, really: 1 is plain, 2 adds top binding & visually upgraded wood, 3 adds rosette, back binding & still fancier wood. The 1 series came in N (Natural) and...um...something else (SunBurst?? Much less common, whatever it was). In the 2 & 3 series, the letters designate the wood used for back & sides (all tops spruce, all necks mahogany, all fingerboards--I think--ebony). Choices were Maple, MapleWavy, MapleBirdseye, Koa (and maybe one or two others, at different periods).

I don't have a 3K--those stories were about an acquaintance.

What I like so much about my 2M is its sound & feel (don't ask me to describe what _about_ the sound & feel I like so much--it "just does it for me"), and a bit of "reverse snobbery" direceted against those garish, frou-frou F styles....

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## Markelberry

Well I recieved the 82 2k flatiron today. Put a new set of strings on it the ones that were on there have been rusted for awhile. Im amazed at the sound that comes out of this little mandolin and it plays very nicely what volume. I dont have the interior label that suggest string gauges, I strung it with GHS phosphor lights .10-.36 sounds great it will definately get play time and its a keeper the wood selected is quite nice. Its been awhile since its been played but at some point someone wore a little gouge in the top with a fingernail it looks like and oh it has the logo inlaid in pearl quite colorful option at the time. Im a happy picker with a new toy tonite.Markelberry

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## pickinNgrinnin

Markelberry-

Go back about 100 pages  and I posted some information regarding the string gauge recommendations. Go light with the gauge.

The Pancake - great tone, volume and playability. The Flatiron logo inlaid with MOP is very cool. Have not seen that before.

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## Markelberry

I am assuming it is mop,in the pics before it arrived I thought it was decal,but it glows like mop or abalone when light reflects off of it more golden in color with a hint of pink red? In my 84 broshure it was an option,I have a frets critique of their octave in 82 and it stated logo in pearl,so maybe it was standard at that time?

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## pickinNgrinnin

Markelberry-

Is that you selling the 82 Flatiron 2K Mando in the classifieds?? What the??

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## Markelberry

yes it is  I realized after the purchase I really should have put cash elsewhere,I love the mandolin boy does it sound good. I didnt want to withdraw my bid. INTERESTED? I will get right on it.

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## John Goodin

Markelberry-

Can I ask what the serial number is on that 2K? I just found my old warranty card for the 2K I owned back in 82-83 and wonder how close your number is to mine.

John Goodin

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## Markelberry

> Markelberry-
> 
> Can I ask what the serial number is on that 2K? I just found my old warranty card for the 2K I owned back in 82-83 and wonder how close your number is to mine.
> 
> John Goodin


The serial # is82031466

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## John Goodin

Thanks very much. Synchronicity or something. My old warranty card was for #82031476. Only 10 mandos apart!

John

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## Nathan Sanders

Whoa, that's pretty cool on the serial number. I probably posted this several pages back, but I sold a Flatiron 1CH to a guy who had broken the peghead of his 1CH. When he received the one from me, he got to looking and the serial numbers of the two 1CH mandos were sequential. One came right after the other. What are the odds of that?

Mark, I wish I had the extra funds to buy your 2K. I'd probably trade you a Guild 12-string guitar though, if you were interesed in a trade.

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## michael.denslow

I saw an all red Flatiron Pancake in a store the other day. Not sure of the model or year. I really enjoyed playng it but the guy wanted $1000 for it! That seems a VERY high to me. What is the going rate for one in good condition?

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## Nathan Sanders

Michael,

Sounds like you were playing a Cadet model. If so, $1000 seems high. I know of an all red Cadet in a store, and last time I saw it the owner wanted around $500. It was a new one as far as I know, or new old stock, since they haven't been built in a while.

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## spoefish

Yeaaaa, my 1992 Flatiron Cadet came today. #Very plain - spruce top, maple sides and back, and I think the neck is maple, but hard to tell under the stain. #Black top and fairly dark stained back and sides. #This one was $300 well spent - a little wear but no damage, nice straight neck, and it sounds great. #Came with some horrible mix of stings on it, but now has a GHS-250 set (like the sticker inside says). #Only change from the original format I can find is an upgrade to Schaller tuners (no complaint there). #And once I got it cleaned up and restrung it was really nice. #Bright and full, and pretty loud. #I think the black top and dark finish are to cover the very plain wood - not a problem and the black top is pretty neat. #But best of all is the sound and playability, with a nice low action. #Nice to know that even the bottom of the Flatiron line is this satisfying. #My son has an 84 2MW, an I really don't notice a lot if difference - actually I think I like mine better. #And both are pretty different from the two MidMo mandolins I have owned (maple and walnut) - they seem a little sweeter, but I like the fit and finish on the Flatirons better. #Think I know what I will be playing the rest of the evening.

Stephen

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## sgarrity

Well, I've joined the pancake family again. I sold my mint 2MC to f5dude in Aug of '04 and have kinda regretted that ever since. At the time my MAS was in remission, I had 3 mandos and decided I only needed two. Can you believe that??? Now my MAS has flared up again, big time! And I think I got a pretty good deal on it. I'll give y'all a report when i get it in my hands.

Shaun

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey Shaun,

Glad to hear you're in the pancake patrol again. I cannot wait to see and hear what you bought. And when you get ready to sell it someday...well....anyway...hopefully you will keep this one. Catch you later dude.

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## Bike Mike

Hello All,
I'm new to the board and wish to say I purchased the 2MW from ebay and it (finally) got here yesterday. My first Flatiron and I'm very happy with the condition of the mando, and blown away by the "bullet-proof" construction of the original case! The mandolin does have a slight sinking of the top, and that worries me a little, but it plays beautifully and the action is low and even. I'll put on new strings as soon as I get used to how it sounds now, and report back.
  It's great fun to participate in this thread and to bump it to yet another page. This thread is what educated me to the Pancakes and I'm just tickled to now own one.
  As a guitar player of 30 years a year long attempt at the banjo convinced me what was really stirring me was the mandolin music I kept hearing over everything else. So... my chop chords are just now becoming do-able, and I'm looking forward to the journey.
  Thanks to all who make this forum possible. The volume of information for learners, and especially the history to be found here is amazing. Thanks to all the people who use their valuable time to post here, and help out so generously. (Loar pic of the day, for example).
  Long live the Mandolin Cafe!

Mike

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey Mike,

Welcome to the Flatiron Brigade! The 2MW is a great mando, like the other Flatiron pancakes. I've had two 2MW mandos pass through my hands and each was awesome. Have fun and enjoy the great sound.

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## pickinNgrinnin

Bike Mike-

Check to see if it has any loose braces on the inside under the top. Also, it may be on the dry side. Take a toothpick to a Zip Lock bag and poke a number of holes in the bag. Then place a wet sponge in the bag, set it inside of the case and close the case. Check every couple of days to see if the sponge is still moist. Some extra humidification may bring the top back up.

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## Bike Mike

Thanks very much for the advice.
I just got it yesterday, and have not even had time to use a mirror to check it.
  I was considering finding someone to send it too for a repair and set-up.
  Being new I'm not sure I know how to check intonation correctly, but to my ear it sounds okay on old strings.
  I will start to humidify it though, bound to help.
  My camera died just last week, so when it's replaced I'll post a couple pictures. It really has a very flamey back and sides.
  Mike

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## pickinNgrinnin

Bike Mike-

If you follow the sponge in the ziplock procedure, in a few days, you may see the top come up a bit. Certainly worth a try. Upon receiving my 1N, I discovered 3/4" crack on the top right along side of the fretboard. I had the crack cleated on the underside and sealed on the top. The person who sold me the Mando didn't seem to know (obviously) the role of proper humidification. Keep a small wet sponge (in the above described zip lock bag) in the case during the dry winter months to prevent the Pancake from drying out. 

A dried out Pancake is not too tasty

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## sgarrity

Well I got mine today. It's in great shape. Very little playing wear. Kinda feels like the back seam might be separating ever so slightly at the bottom. I'm gonna try the sponge technique and see if that doesn't tighten it up. This thing has been sitting in its case in a clost for years and not humidified properly.

The label reads Model 2M and serial #84082896. Does that mean it was made in 1984? I don't remember how to read those. Also, is the 2M the same as the 2MC?

As far as the sound goes, my first impression is very good. The strings are ancient so I'll be replacing those later today. But even with them, this thing is LOUD! It seems much louder than the '95 2MC that I sold last year.

Shaun

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## pickinNgrinnin

Welcome back to the fold! Yes, you have an 84 pre Gibson Pancake. When you restring, be sure to go with a light gauge. There should be string gauge recommendation on the neck block. Take a look inside of the sound hole.

It's a shame that folks don't know to humidify solid wood instruments during the winter. Just creates damage that could easily be prevented.

Shaun - do you still have your Davis F5?

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## mrt10x

I just wanted to be the 700th!!!! post on this thread

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## sgarrity

Funny you should ask about the Davis. I just decided about an hour ago to put it up for sale. MAS works in strange ways. But I've decided to down grade a little to an A-model. It's been a great mando, I'm just ready for a change. Again......

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## Nathan Sanders

Shaun,

Just saw your Davis on the Classifieds. Dude, MAS has really struck hard I guess. What a-model do you think you might get?

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## sgarrity

I played 2 Weber's with cedar tops the other day. They were both the best mandos Ive ever had my hands on. Just absolutely amazing. So I'm going to order an A model when the Davis sells. And in the meantime I'll have my pancake to pick on. I'm really liking this one.

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## Nathan Sanders

Cool deal Shaun! I haven't played a cedar top Weber yet. I did play a Weber Yellowstone that was really awesome. Yep, I think I might have to find another Flatiron 2MC sometime, to keep, and then maybe a 3MB, and then a Flatiron mandola.....maybe it's a case of PAS...Pancake Acquisition Syndrome... ha ha ha ha ha ha

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## sgarrity

Do they make a hardshell case for these?

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## Nathan Sanders

Hardshell for the pancake? Well, back in the day you could get them from Elderly. I bought my case from Elderly for my 1N, but that was 12 years ago. What do some of the current flat top makers use I wonder, such as Davis, or Mid Missouri, or even Weber? Of course, the Flatiron is really different from all of those.

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## sgarrity

I checked the Elderly site before I posted here. I knew I'd seen them there before. Maybe I'll email TKL or Cedar Creek and see if they can still make one at a reasonable cost. I've been toting this thing around with me everywhere and would just like a little more protection than the chipboard case. And I'm not to sure about the foam on the inside. It's kind of dry and flaky is spots.

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## Nathan Sanders

Here's a page from Mid-Missouri's site showing their hard shell cases:

Mid Missouri Mandolin

I guess you'd have to get some measurements or maybe find one locally to try out.

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## bratsche

These two in the classifieds sure went in a hurry.#Gone before I even saw 'em go up. Wonder if the buyer will comment?

bratsche

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## Nathan Sanders

Yep bratsche, I missed them too. I probably would have bought the mandola. And there was a Flatiron 2MW on ebay I was planning to bid on which was ending today. Just checked and it said the seller ended the auction early to sell to the only bidder on it. OH well....

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## sgarrity

I'll comment on them just as soon as I get 'em. The seller had posted a few pics/comments a couple of pages back. Maybe I'll have them in time for the OCTMA jam.

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## Nathan Sanders

Shaun,

Aww man! Congratulations! It's not looking good for me to make it to the OCTMA meeting this month. If I am able to make it at all I'll have to come about 6 or so and leave early.

I do want to see the mandola though. I've never had the privilege of playing a Flatiron mandola. Of course, if you ever decide to sell it.....well....

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## mandocaster

I'm the seller.

I'll miss them, but I didn't give myself a chance to get attached to them.

Ahhh GAS - how it has ruled my life... sigh

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## sgarrity

Well I got the mandolin and mandola today. They arrived earlier this week, but I've been out of town on business. Nice looking instruments. I'm especially pleased with the mandola. Now I just need to replace a string on it and give it a test drive.

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## Nathan Sanders

Shaun,

I cannot wait to see the mandola, but I cannot make it to the OCTMA meeting this month. Probably next month though. There was another Flatiron mandola on the Classifieds a few days ago, and I would have bought it except for a shortage of funds. I believe it's gone now though. Oh well....

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## sgarrity

Yeh I saw that one too. It went fast. I think it was about $650 or so. A pretty good price in my opinion. Mine isn't going anywhere. So you'll have plenty of time to pick on it. If you get any time between now and then, holler at me and we can have a little pancake get together. Now all I need is an octave mandolin and I'll have the whole family.

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## sgarrity

Ok, I'm about to go nuts. #I cannot get the D strings to the right pitch on this thing (mandola). #They're either too loose or I'm on the verge of breaking them. #Any ideas???

----------


## mandocaster

I came to the conclusion (rather belatedly) that the D nut slots on that particular mandola are pretty tight. I kept breaking strings as I put them on. Try using strings no heavier than the ones stamped on the inside of the 'dola, and/or use a little graphite.

----------


## fatt-dad

Something to contribute: I just returned from an afternoon visit to Picker's Supply in Fredericksburg where they had a great 1SH with original hard shell case for $695.00 (or thereabouts). It was a 1981 vintage and seemed to be in perfect shape. I played it, it sounded great and while somewhat overpriced, was an excellent mandolin (nothing in it for me). Having a discussion with the sales guy (in the beginning stages of MAS), he told me that the local re-enactors (you know the Civil War guys) like to buy these as they have the more authentic "look" for the Civil War vibe (notwithstanding that the Army Navy style is from the '20s). I just wanted to pass that along, a good sighting and an interesting market. . . . 

fatt still-playing-my-1N dad

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## fatt-dad

Here's my pancake in the hands of a little boy that doesn't even own shoes. #He listened to me play a few tunes and his toe was tapping as if he'd heard those fiddle tunes all his life. #It was pretty amazing.

f-d

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## fatt-dad

Oh yeah, this was last week in Capira, Panama. . .

f-d

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## Bike Mike

Hello All,
I'm the guy that bought the 2MW on ebay a while back. The top has some sinkage to it and now I finally have photos and some questions.
  I love this thing and it plays wonderfully. A new set of strings really woke this thing up and it's really lively now!
  I'm worried about the top, and even with a newly purchased inspection mirror it's just too narrow top to back to allow me to see what's going on in there.
  Should I just play the heck out of it, as somehow the intonation seems okay.
  Should I spend the money for repairs, and who to send it too? I've spoken with STE and they are not able to work on it.
  I've tried many times to get the sinkage to show on camera, this is the best I could manage. The sound hole looks slightly out of round and it's not the camera angle but the depth of the top doing that. Also you can better see the space under the foot of the bridge, so it does have some major sinkage that a lot of humidification is not going to correct.
  I'm tempted to just keep playing it, as it's too much fun, but don't want it to become worse. It's become my "take everywhere" mandolin when I don't want to get my Weber out in the weather.
  Opinions?
  And thanks in advance.

  Mike

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## Bike Mike

Here is the space under the bridge.

Mike

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## sgarrity

My advice would be play the heck out if it. #The repairs would probably cost close to what the instrument is worth. #As long as the top stays stable, I wouldn't worry too much. #Of course this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it! #

----------


## PaulD

> Hello All,
> I'm the guy that bought the 2MW on ebay a while back. The top has some sinkage to it and now I finally have photos and some questions.
>   I love this thing and it plays wonderfully. A new set of strings really woke this thing up and it's really lively now!
>   I'm worried about the top, and even with a newly purchased inspection mirror it's just too narrow top to back to allow me to see what's going on in there.
>   Should I just play the heck out of it, as somehow the intonation seems okay.
> 
> &lt;SNIP&gt; 
> 
>   Opinions?
> ...


Mike, 

You _are_ using light gauge strings, aren't you? These things were pretty lightly built... not designed for J-74's. Early in this thread (about page 6 IIRC) there was a reference to the appropriate string gauges for the pancakes. I use the Martin light gauge strings on mine... they're pretty close. 

I've never heard of this happening with a Flatiron pancake, but you might reach inside or look in with a mirror to ensure that none of the braces have come loose. It's transverse braced, conceivably a loose brace could cause the top to sink. Another way you can sometimes tell is to tap around the top with a knuckle and listen for any spots that rattle, buzz, or just don't _sound right_.

Paul Doubek

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## Bike Mike

I am impressed with the quick replies.
  At first I thought the strings on it were oversized, but I put the Martin lights on it and the original ones seemed the same size.
  It was disclosed that the top had some sinkage. I have been trying to view inside with a small mirror but no luck.
It also has a 1/4" microphone jack on a short cable that hangs out the sound hole, but I doubt that has any effect. I'm not familiar with any kind of amplification stuff, but it seems the cord is attached to the bridge.
  Part of the fun was getting a "classic" for a good price, so I'll keep playing it and keep a watchful eye on the top.
  It has an original case that is in nearly new condition, also part of the fun. I does show a lot of fretware, even has some grooves in the first couple frets.
  I don't care, I love this thing!
  Mike

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## Tom C

I would start another post ans ask about this sinkage. Luthiers not interested may just skip this post.

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## glauber

> It also has a 1/4" microphone jack on a short cable that hangs out the sound hole, but I doubt that has any effect. I'm not familiar with any kind of amplification stuff, but it seems the cord is attached to the bridge.


It could be a small piezo pickup under the bridge, or one of those bridges that has an integrated piezo pickup. It may work or not. If it works, you may need an additional preamp to get a good sound, but you should get at least some sound when plugged to a guitar amp.

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## fatt-dad

I just can't believe that there isn't a loose top brace in that thing. I would think that a brace reglue wouldn't cost more than a hundred bucks, even with a little setup thrown in (from my experience in dealing with folks). If you want a name for repairs, send me a PM and I'll give you a name.

fatt I-love-my-pancake dad

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## jaizbones

What should that Flatiron Cadet on Ebay go for, provided there is not a lot of over bidding.

----------


## fatt-dad

So what, you want to take it from me? (Don'w worry, I have my max in there right now and I'm sure I'm too low.)

I would say $350 on a good day (if it's in the very good shape as they say and there are no structrual issues) and $500.00 if somebody is just going nuts.

f-d

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## pickinNgrinnin

How much of the top sinkage is due to the Mando being dried out? You could take some wet sponges and place them inside of a ziploc plastic bag (punch a number of holes in the bag with a toothpick) and set the bag(s) inside of the case and inside of the sound hole. Keep the case shut for a few days and see if the top comes back up.

----------


## jaizbones

I have an opportunity to buy a pancake model. I forget the model #, for $400.00. That seems like a good deal. I used to own one and sold it but I like the idea of having the Flatiron as a traveler and workhorse. Is that a good price?

Why not wait till the end of the auction to put your price in?

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## pickinNgrinnin

If it's in good shape, and comes with a HSC, $400 is a good buy.

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## spoefish

I have a black-top gloss finish 92 cadet that I paid $310 for - and which turned out to be a very fair price for what #got. #A few very fine checks in the finish on the back, and took a lot of cleaning up (peel off a really ugly pickguard, etc.) but when I was done it looked and played and sounded great - I like the gloss finish black tops better than the satin finish red tops, but I bet they sound about the same. #Martin light strings work fine, and will make your mando last longer. #No adjustable truss rod, but they seem very stable. #I gave an 84 2MW to my son - action on the 2MW was getting a bit high and I think the Cadet sounds better. #Cases seem to be a bit of a problem, but I ended up using a Blue Heron soft case I had and it works fine - very light to haul around and pretty good protection. #These are just fine little mandolins - not as sweet as my Martin Style A, but the Flatiron seems a little more versatile. #The Martin is better for classical stuff. #But then so is my Arches.

Stephen

1972 Martin Style A
1992 Flatiron Cadet
2003 Weber custom (gloss sunburst maple) Hyalite
2004 Arches A style f hole, walnut
2004 Eastman 604

----------


## alespa

I hope it's not inappropriate to mention here . . . but since we are talking about Flatiron Cadet's and I noticed the Cadet on ebay that just sold . . . does this compare with the Mid-Mo M4 to any degree? I know they differ in exact body shape and size, but I am intrigued by the look of the Flatiron, and assume from what I have heard that the Cadet is the "entry level" Flatiron. I can't think of any other pancake flat top style mandolins in this price range $400-500 that are worth looking at. I'd love to hear from the buyer of this Cadet what they think of it.

----------


## Eric F.

> I can't think of any other pancake flat top style mandolins in this price range $400-500 that are worth looking at.


Not too long ago I noticed a Howard Morris flattop on eBay with a BIN of $350. Howard has a good reputation for making no-frills, quality arch tops. You might track him down via the Cafe builders database and see if he has made any more. That's an awfully good price. I believe a company called Wichita Band has a guy on its staff who makes flattops for around $500. I've heard they are excellent, too. 

Finally, it's very hard to go wrong with a Mid-Mo or Flatiron. I've owned each and would happily play either brand. Flatirons are getting harder to find in this price range, though. It seems to go in phases on eBay - all of a sudden, Flatirons go for $700 or $800 for a while, then things settle back.

----------


## spoefish

I have had several MidMo's (and still have a MiniMo around somehwere). #The ones I owned were the walnut and maple versions. #They were both fine - of the two I liked the walnut better - but if I had a chance to choose between a MidMo and a Flatiron for the same price I would take the Flatiron. #I just like the way it plays and sounds a little better, and as I indicated above I am very happy with my black-top Cadet. #And now I get to spend some time with my new Tacoma M3 sunburst which should be here next week. #Just can't have too many mandolins.

Stephen

1972 Martin Style A
2001 Tacoma M3 Sunburst
1992 Flatiron Cadet
2003 Weber custom (gloss sunburst maple) Hyalite
2004 Arches A style f hole, walnut
2004 Eastman 604

----------


## spoefish

And it looks like there will be another happy new owner. #The more I see of the fancier ones, the happier I am with my Cadet. #Looks like no adj. truss rod in this one, just like the Cadet. #Still trying to figure out the coming-and-going's of adj. truss rods in the pancakes. #This one is very pretty.

I sometimes wonder how many of the pancakes Flatiron made before they quit them. #Not that I will, but one of each style would be nice. Hmmmmmm

Stephen

Flatiron M2W on eBay

----------


## fatt-dad

unless I'm told otherwise, I would guess that the adjustable truss rod was something that done under the Gibson ownership.

fatt I-really-don't-know dad

----------


## fatt-dad

(post following post - must be a forum no-no. . . .)

fast forward to the year 2027 (or so)

www.pancakejournal.com where you can list and show photographs of all your vintage pancakes. Hey, we're on a budget here!

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]I would guess that the adjustable truss rod was something that done under the Gibson ownership.

That's a 10-4 there Flaco Dad!

----------


## jaizbones

just picked up a Flatiron 2MW from 84 locally for $400 even with case. Has some scatches where a pickguard would be but otherwise in perfect shape. None of those surface cracks that some of the early ones have. Could not help myself. 

Later

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Well, <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Flatiron-Mandolin-3K-Very-Good-Cond_W0QQitemZ7394070298QQcategoryZ10179QQrdZ1QQcm  dZViewIte


m" target="_blank">here</a> is a 92 Gibson era without the trussrod. So... maybe sometime in 92 or after.

Well, try this:

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Flatiron-Mandolin-3K-Very-Good-Cond_W0QQitemZ7394070298QQcategoryZ10179QQssPageNa  meZWDVWQQ
rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/Flatiro....iewItem</a>

----------


## telepbrman

Did anyone notice the Flatiron catalog items on ebay a few days ago? I'll fill you in on the items when they come in, later, dy.

----------


## sgarrity

Yeh I picked one up. I got an '84 dealer packet and catalog. Goes great with my '84 2MW!

----------


## Bike Mike

I bought one set of the three that sold a few weeks ago. They are in like new condition and a lot of fun. Price lists also. And educational for a new Pancake owner. By the way, due to our drought like weather, a small crack is visible now where the top is sunk in, corresponding with the larger ding on the top. I'm sure it's a loose brace and I'm going to have it fixed one of these days. Just like this thing too much not to do it.

Mike

----------


## telepbrman

That accounts for the 3 that were for sale, me, sgarrity, and bike mike on the ball....later, dy.

----------


## telepbrman

I got my pack today, that E-bay Flatiron deal pack, and it is cool. Some of it was filler, a Yamaha, Godin, and odd catalog things other than Flatiron, yet the actual Flatiron items are very cool, the big fold out folder has some pics of the making of the pancakes, some reviews from buyers, and general info from Carlson printed on the inside of the folder. The packet came with a dealer purchase list, which was titled confidential. Neet inside info into the dealer world and pricing. The color papers on the models was cool, helpful in models and specs, a black and white sheet had the new A5-1 & A5-2 mando's, Model #3's and the music stands for point of sale. A typed letter to the music shop was included and signed by Carlson, dated Nov 5, 1983. I also have a Jan 1, 1986 price list. Nice collectable. I will use the color spec sheet's as a mini poster deal, frame them for the wall, and the actual folder will be used as a sheet music holder for some of my favorite mandolin tunes...later, dy.

----------


## fatt-dad

telepbrman: Any chance of producing a scan for the benefit of this thread? We're making a historical archive here and need your help!

f-d

----------


## telepbrman

Fatt-dad: Actually Markelberry has that stuff already posted, I have the same paperwork..long live the cakes...dy.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Hey Fatt, yep go back to about page 26 and 27 of the thread and you will see Markelberry's postings. It's a great brochure. I now have it in my possession. Thanks Mark!

----------


## fatt-dad

(I realize that this is somewhat off-topic, but if somebody can give me information from these catalogs on the A5-1, I'd appreciate it. You can PM me or email through the cafe.)

f-d

----------


## telepbrman

I am wondering about the year 1986...that is pre-Gibby right?  Thanks, dy.

----------


## fatt-dad

Gibson bought Flatiron in May 1987 (information from the Weber Web site).

f-d

----------


## Jim M.

Okay pancake fans -- Gryphon just put up a 1995 2MC mandola for $540. Who's going to grab it? www.gryphonstrings.com

NFI on my part. Just vicarious MAS.

----------


## telepbrman

Thanks for the info fatt...I guess 86 is pre-gibby, and it looks like I have one coming in the mail---- Yep, I'm back in the pack, it's a 86' 1CH, and I'll fill you in when it all comes together, thanks to everyone who has posted here on the 1N thread, I'll keep you posted, dy......

----------


## fatt-dad

(seemingly) mint 1981 1N at Elderly for $600.00 (original soft shell case).

Price check. . . .

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

> Okay pancake fans -- Gryphon just put up a 1995 2MC mandola for $540. Who's going to grab it?


Already gone?

----------


## Jim M.

> Originally Posted by  (Jim M. @ Mar. 15 2006, 14:28)
> 
> Okay pancake fans -- Gryphon just put up a 1995 2MC mandola for $540. Who's going to grab it?
> 
> 
> Already gone?


It was gone the day after I posted. I want to know who got it. Come on, don't hold out on us.

----------


## telepbrman

Ok, it's a done deal...an 86' 1CH Flatiron from Ithica Guitarworks for $495. Now the odd thing is, she is a full gloss finish. I will also say that the keys have been changed, a few cracks are present, and the bridge is non original. That being said, she still screams! I have had 2 other pancakes, and this one is a fantastic Mandolin. I am going to reread some of the older posts, especially the ones about the bridges, and refresh my memory on the 1CH. Another thing, she came with a thin chip board case. Ok, I'll keep you all posted, later, dy.

P/S I have an 86' price list, it came with that e-bay pack I bought from 84', and there is no memtion of a "gloss" finish as an option...this gloss finish is super quality, top notch. Some of you have said it may be a special order, I'll e-mail Weber and see if there is any info.

----------


## telepbrman

Mike e-mailed me back, here is the info:



I spoke with Helen who was working for Flat Iron at that time. She said
it is a factory finish and it was call Fuller Plast.  It isn't a
catalyzed lacquer, but it was really durable stuff so they used it for
awhile.


Good deal, later, dy.

----------


## fatt-dad

Please support my archive project and send me via PM or post here serial numbers, description, photos, etc. on your pre-Gibson Flatirons (i.e., 1987 or earlier). I would like to make a database of this information.

f-d

----------


## kyblue

Another compulsive Flatiron purchase tale.

I bought Ken Cartwright's 94 Scout Mandola from the classifieds last week. It arrived in Kentucky today. I've been home about 2 hours, and haven't been able to put it down.

I love it! I think I see more Flatirons in my future. 

Paula

----------


## telepbrman

Paula...will the Flats in the future be mandolins?

----------


## kyblue

telepbrman 

Probably so. Flat tops, of course. 

I had a bouzouki before that I liked, but didn't have much need for it after I got my octave mando so I sold it. 

I really like these flat tops!

Paula

----------


## fatt-dad

All I can say is the 1SH mandola in the Classifieds for under $600.00 is a seemingly good deal for a pre-Gibson with the original 5-latch case. It's also going in my Archive!

fatt nothing-in-it-for-me dad

----------


## PaulD

> Mike e-mailed me back, here is the info:
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke with Helen who was working for Flat Iron at that time. She said
> it is a factory finish and it was call Fuller Plast.  It isn't a
> catalyzed lacquer, but it was really durable stuff so they used it for
> awhile.
> 
> ...


I had talked to Weber some time ago about my 1SH finish because it needs some serious repair. I was told the same thing (Fullerplast), but I had a helluva time trying to find out what Fullerplast is. I finally tracked it down; it's a catalyzed varnish that is sold only in larger quantities required by manufacturers. It's durable but after about 20 years I had a patch around the bass-side side to back seam flake off... I still don't know what happened. If I had spilled a beer in it (which I didn't) it would have run to the other side unless I was drunk enough not to realize I was holding it backward.

pd

----------


## Eric F.

Hey, I'm back in the pancake club. An '83 2K arrived today. I'm busy putting together a final exam so I haven't had much chance to play it, but it sounded pretty fine in the few minutes I spent with it.

----------


## fatt-dad

Congratulations, EF! When you post the details, I'd love to add it to my Flatiron archive project.

fatt thanks-for-blowing-the-dust-offa-this-thread dad

----------


## Daniel1975

f-d,

what strings do you like best on your flat tops? Thanks

----------


## fatt-dad

HERE's the link to the specs on GHS A-250 string set. They are perfect for the recommended string gauge sticker that was originally located on the neck block of the pancake. That said, they're also cheap and good. I've never tried the D'Adderio light mandolin strings, but some folks like them too.

f-d

----------


## Daniel1975

Those GHS are what I have on mine now. And the D'addario are the only other strings that I have tried. It's not that I don't like them. I was just curious what you used and I am always looking to try something different. They need changing too, but I am lazy

----------


## fatt-dad

O.K. fans: What does the "SH" stand for in 1SH? Page 3 has most of the other designations spelled out. . . 

f-d

----------


## allenhopkins

I'll probably get a rep as a flack for John Bernunzio (well, he's here in Rochester, so there's some excuse), but has everyone seen the Gibson "pancake," signed by Carlson, and apparently dated right after G purchased Flatiron? It's the fanciest one I've ever seen. Bernunzio has it for sale; here's a link:
Gibson Army-Navy Custom

No idea what it sounds like -- maybe I'll mosey over there and try it...

----------


## fatt-dad

Yes, I want that pancake. It's like the D-45 of the pancake world. I think it showed up (or one just like it) a year or so ago. Somewhere around $1,000.00 if I recall correctly. Oh well, can't have them all. . . . 

f-d

----------


## Eric F.

That is one seriously crazy back!

----------


## Nathan Sanders

WOW!! Just checked out the above mentioned Gibson army-navy. That thing is beautiful!

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

The D-45 of the Pancake world 

A mighty tasty looking Pancake.

----------


## Markelberry

Has anyone came up with the explanation for 1SH description? The broshure I used to have did not show this in it,Im sure everyone interested has seen the one on the up for grabs site? Markelberry

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . . drum roll please - "Shaded". You had the option of the "Natural" (i.e., 1N), 1SH (shaded) or 1SB (sunburst).

Just received some more catalog scans tonight.

f-d

----------


## telepbrman

I'm on the hunt again...I'll keep you posted, dy.

----------


## jenford

I just bought one on ebay - really sweet little instrument - a 1983. Lots of crazing on the finish - but otherwise very good condition. 


Best,
Jen Ford

----------


## fatt-dad

Yet another pancake-designation question: What the heck is THIS? It has the designation PX-1917 rather than the more customary 1N, 2N, 3N-type model number. The label says "Flatiron Performer Series" and it has a 1989 serial number (ala Gibson vintage). Comments (additional to it being a cool-looking pancake)

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

What the  Just when you think you've seen them all! This is certainly a designation I've not seen before. Very interesting. Some pronounced wings on the back of the headstock.

----------


## delsbrother

Are you asking about the PX designation, or just the fact it's on a Flatiron? If the former, I think the original (Gibsons) were sold in PXs - hence the name "Army-Navy" - so it would make sense the original Flatcakes might pay homage to the Gibson model.. If you're asking about the latter.. I dunno. Paula Jean!

----------


## jenford

Oh My - Such a nice pancake - have to say I'm diggin my pancake purchase. 

Design is so clean - and the tone is amazing for such a little critter. 

I have the Weber Hyalite and the Flatiron at the office - folks come around and immediately pick up the Flatiron.

Best,
Jen Ford

----------


## allenhopkins

Couldn't resist -- went to John Bernunzio's new store (Bernunzio Uptown Music, it is now), and bought the Gibson Army-Navy Custom I linked to back on May 15:
Army-Navy Custom

Cost me a '30's National Triolian plectrum guitar plus some cash. Here's the story as best as John B knows it: it's labeled "Gibson Army Navy AN-Custom." Serial number is 7001128; label says "Tested and Approved December 16, 1987," and it's signed by Steve Carlson. The label says "Gibson, Inc., Bozeman MT USA."
John B says it came from a dealer in New Hampshire named Louie Catello, and was his personal mandolin. (Catello wrote his name inside as well.) Apparently Catello was a Harley-Davidson dealer who also bought and sold vintage instruments; he may have been a Gibson franchisee, which could be why he had Gibson make him a custom instrument.
Back, sides and neck are highly figured maple; back and sides are bound wbw with ivoroid. There's an abalone ring around the soundhole, with two rings of bwb purfling surrounding it. Neck is bound; hardware is gold-plated and engraved. Headstock's engraved "The Gibson" and has a curlicue inlay like the old A-3. Fretboard is ebony, with dot MOP inlays; headstock facing is also ebony.
There's a serious, though professional and solid, repair to the back of the neck at the headstock joint, and a stable hairline (possibly finish only) crack running from the soundhole on the bass side of the neck. A fair amount of lacquer checking as well, but overall eminently playable.
The instrument sounds stronger and heavier than I anticipated, though it has a distinctive round-hole thin-body twang to it. Seems like an excellent general-purpose instrument, which is how I intend to use it.
Overall, quite a unique "pancake," one you won't see at IHOP...

----------


## guitharsis

Nice mando. Congrats Allen!

I've got to get over to Bernunzio's new store one day myself. 

Doreen

----------


## cpmusic

I just came across this thread and thought I'd toss in my two cents. I found my 1981 1N in 1993 in an off-the-track music store. I didn't play much mandolin at the time, but I knew what I was looking at and the price was good, so I bought it on impulse. It didn't get the best of care from its previous owner(s), but it was and still is structurally sound. I'm not much better on mando than I was then, but that Flatiron isn't going anywhere.

I don't know if this is common or the result of a later alteration, but this 1N has no logo on the front of the headstock. Instead, THE FLATIRON is burned into the back of the headstock in plain sans-serif letters.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]I don't know if this is common or the result of a later alteration, but this 1N has no logo on the front of the headstock. Instead, THE FLATIRON is burned into the back of the headstock in plain sans-serif letters.

An 81 is an early one. With these older pancakes, I believe it was common to imprint/press the Flatiron name on the back of the headstock and not have the logo on the front. Get ahold of fatt dad to enter your Flatiron in his archive!

----------


## fatt-dad

Just a reminder to Chris - Go find your camera and send me some photos! I'd like to see a photo of the overall instrument (i.e., front and back), the peghead (front and back) and the instrument in its case. Also, a photo of the soundhole/label would be cool.

f-d

----------


## cpmusic

Thanks for the info, pickinNgrinnin. It doesn't look like it was altered, but it's hard to know such things when you buy an instrument used.

fatt-dad, will do. I'm a habitual procrastinator, but I'll try and get to this in the next few days.

----------


## Dan Margolis

I went to Louie Catello's shop in Berlin NH about ten years ago. #He specialized in archtop guitars and had been written about in Guitar Player magazine, probably about 20-25 years ago. #That's how I knew about him. #As I recall, he had an old fashioned store with some nice stuff in it. #He was a Fender dealer, too.

----------


## cpmusic

> Just a reminder to Chris - Go find your camera and send me some photos! #I'd like to see a photo of the overall instrument (i.e., front and back), the peghead (front and back) and the instrument in its case. #Also, a photo of the soundhole/label would be cool.
> 
> f-d


F-D, you have mail!

----------


## allenhopkins

Apparently Catello's shop in Berlin NH is still open; his sons are running it. This is the contact info:


Catello & Sons Music
Contact: Bob Catello
680 Glen Ave
Berlin, NH 3570
Phone: (603) 752-7109
eMail: brasscat@n.c.i.a.net

Talking with Dave Stutzman here (Stutzman's Guitar Center is a wonderful family-owned store, where I have purchased most of my instruments) -- he says that Louie Catello had a big billboard near his store, advertising "Harley-Davidson motorcycles, aluminum boats, and Fender instruments." According to Dave, he sold everything from chainsaw parts to guitar strings, and always wrote his name with a felt-tip pen inside the instruments he sold. Dave bought a mandocello from him. The Gibson Army-Navy Custom "pancake" I bought from Bernunzio has "L Catello" written inside it.

It's a great little mandolin, Gibson's salute to the Flatiron instruments after Gibson took over the Bozeman operation. I love having an instrument that is probably unique, a "one-of" signed and dated by Carlson, with a bit of history of its own. The case, by the way, was so gunked up with tape residue that I ended up painting it white -- should reduce heat build-up, and make it stand out in a crowd of other cases.

----------


## racuda

What is your take on the lable in my soundhole?

I've had this mando for two years. It is my "go to" instrument, although is technically in the lowest echelon of my collection.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Drunk & stupid with a Sharpie!

----------


## fatt-dad

Wow! No tellin' what happened that night - ha.

f-d

----------


## racuda

Notice how the serial number is "conviently" obliterated?

----------


## Jim M.

33 pages and going strong. Is anyone looking for a mandola or OM? These recently showed up for sale at what looks like pretty good prices:

Mandola

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Flatiron-octave-mandolin-bouzouki_W0QQitemZ330013365584QQihZ014QQcategoryZ1  0179QQrdZ1QQcmd
ZViewItem" target="_blank">Octave</a>

----------


## Eric F.

Great price on that 'dola. I recently picked up a pancake 'dola from the early '80s. Now I just need an octave to have a complete set!

----------


## Greg Ashton

Hi,
 I'm the new owner of a Flatiron mandola. I was wondering if anyone has tried a cast tailpiece on them.

----------


## Eric F.

I was wondering the same thing. I have a new-to-me '82 mandola and an '83 2K. Every time I change strings I think about changing the tailpieces.

----------


## cpmusic

I don't have a mandola, but I put an Allen TR-1 on my Flatiron OM/zouk. I've read that a cast tailpiece improves tone relative to the stamped steel variety, but since I changed string gauges when I installed the TR-1, I don't know how much difference it made. The main reason I bought it was to allow the use of ball-end strings, since I can buy them in bulk and in a variety of gauges.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

I still have the original clam shell looking TP on my N1. If I were to go with a cast TP it would be the generic Weber given the historic connection. I doubt it would make any difference in the tone. It would make changing strings easier and the cast Weber TP is nice looking IMO.

----------


## racuda

> 33 pages and going strong. Is anyone looking for a mandola or OM? These recently showed up for sale at what looks like pretty good prices:
> 
> Mandola
> 
> <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Flatiron-octave-mandolin-bouzouki_W0QQitemZ330013365584QQihZ014QQcategoryZ1  0179QQrdZ1QQcmd
> 
> ZViewItem" target="_blank">Octave</a>


I would have LOVED to have that mandola, but I didn't check this thread in time. If anyone knows one for sale please PM me.

----------


## fatt-dad

THIS is a perfect-looking 2K with the original 5-latch hardshell case. Not bad for a BIN of $699.00.

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

Wow, that's a beaut! Anyone know if they made koa mandolas or OMs?

----------


## fatt-dad

> Wow, that's a beaut! Anyone know if they made koa mandolas or OMs?


So far I haven't seen one, but the archive is only up to 31 instruments (we have a long way to go, but who's in a rush?)

I got a side offer on the Koa at ebay (I asked if I could place it into my archive and it turns out to be a guy that's given me other entries. Problem is, my new hobby is free and going back to actually buying them, well, that's another story. I'd miss my wife - ha.

f-d

----------


## Eric F.

I once played a 3K mandola - to answer delsbrother's question - at Gruhn's. It was a thoroughly unimpressive instrument. It's the only pancake I've ever played that just left me flat.

----------


## delsbrother

Ahhh- now I remember. I even asked about that mandola! Geez, you know you're getting old when you're asking a question that's already been asked (by yourself) 15 pages ago..

----------


## lucho

Hi delsbrother: besides koa mandolas there are perhaps more koa OMs... At least I have seen more OMs than koa mandolas.... BTW, I do own one koa OM made in 1984 with the older kidney tailpiece. Even though it doesn't have much volume compared to other axes, the tone is deeper and perfect to mingle with guitars in a ceilidth band.

----------


## pdogfood

Speaking of pre gibson flatirons, I have one model "Flatiron 1", with a 79XXXX serial number, handmade by "Backporch Productions", Bozeman. I think this was there first "production. any one seen this before. thanks

----------


## fatt-dad

Please consider listing this in my Flatiron ARchive. I'd like the serial number and some photos.

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

pdogfood-

Welcome to the cafe and this long running thread! A 79 is an old Pancake - maybe the oldest one in this thread. I'd like to see a picture of that one.

----------


## Fstpicker

I just love my 1996 Flatiron Pancake I was fortunate enough to come across off of this forum! It is a wonderful sounding instrument, and leaves little to be desired tonally. These mandos are so much fun and so easy to play! 

In fact, my friend liked mine so much, he bought himself one last week. 

Jeff

----------


## fatt-dad

Glad to see new life over here. If/when you hear of a Flatiron that has a date of 1987 (or earlier), I'd like to know about it for my archive project.

f-d

----------


## Eric F.

Nothing in it for me, but there's a 2MW in the classifieds for $395. That's a heckuva deal.

----------


## Fstpicker

> Nothing in it for me, but there's a 2MW in the classifieds for $395. That's a heckuva deal.


You got that right! If I hadn't already bought mine, that one would be mine instead! 



"Hi, my name is Jeff. I am addicted to Flatiron pancake mandolins...."

----------


## fatt-dad

> Originally Posted by  (Eric F. @ Oct. 10 2006, 11:05)
> 
> Nothing in it for me, but there's a 2MW in the classifieds for $395. That's a heckuva deal.
> 
> 
> You got that right! If I hadn't already bought mine, that one would be mine instead! 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hi, my name is Jeff. I am addicted to Flatiron pancake mandolins...."


The seller of that mandolin "spoefish" has reported on that 2MW about two or three pages up from here. It's likely priced correctly.

f-d

----------


## bratsche

Mandola alert at ebay with 1 day left. #Already at $190 more than I paid for mine. (GLOAT) #Well, it has a case, and mine had a gig bag, but still...

bratsche

----------


## fatt-dad

Yikes! A 1977 2K in the classifieds right now! $750.00 get's somebody an early piece of pancake history!

fatt nothing-in-it-for-me dad

----------


## Dan Adams

The earliest I've played is a 79.' A 77'? Impressive! Probably before 'Sound to Earth', bought the name or the rights to market and manufacture? It sounds fun to play!! Dan

----------


## Eric F.

Gibson bought Flatiron. Sound to Earth (aka Weber) was formed after Gibson moved production to Nashville. Bruce Weber and some of the others did not want to leave Montana. Unless my coffee hasn't kicked in and I'm missing something, which is always a possibility.

----------


## cooper4205

wasn't "back porch productions" on sokme of the early flatiron tags?

----------


## Eric F.

Yes. As I understand it - and I wasn't there, so I could well be wrong - Steve Carlson started the company as Back Porch Productions. The first instruments were all flattops, I believe. I thought it started in '79 but if there's a mandolin dated 1977, clearly I was wrong about that.

----------


## fatt-dad

And the arch-tops came into the picture around 1983 - according to catilog information telepbrman gave me several months ago. (My A5-1 is an 84). Seven years of pancakes is a tall stack!

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]Seven years of pancakes is a tall stack!


Indeed, extra syurp please

----------


## fatt-dad

O.K. Pancake fans: Is THIS a genuine 1981 pre-Gibson Flatiron pancake? Here's why I ask: What's with the truss rod? I've never seen this on an early pancake.

Comments?

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Interesting. The Pancake looks to have had a neck replacement. I've not seen one with a bound fretboard, inlay on the headstock, and that style of inlay on the fretboard. "The Flatiron" inlay looks a little off too. I'd guess the body is original but the neck is not.

----------


## Mandomaiden

I've recently come across a couple of mid-80s Flatirons, both in mint condition (although I've not seen them yet), both priced in the $800 range. After following this thread, that seems a bit on the high side. Opinions?

----------


## Eric F.

For a Flatiron pancake mandolin, yes, it's high. For a carved top, no. For a flattop mandola, about right, possibly a bit low. For a flattop octave, low.

----------


## Mandomaiden

Both pancakes....thanks!

----------


## telepbrman

Back in the club...I tracked down my old 94' 1N and we're in buisness. I gave my buddy that Kentucky KM-100S in sunburst and 50 bucks. I'll keep you posted, later, dy.

----------


## mikeyjc

> Hey Forum!
> 
> I was the winner of the 2MC. #It arrived yesterday, and has finish cracks on the bass half of the top, all around the sides, on the back, and up both sides of the neck. #AARRGGHH! #Not quite the 'excellent condition; no blemishes or flaws' disclosed in the listing  
> 
> Have sent the seller and his minion two e-mails - one last PM, one late this afternoon - but alas, have not heard back from either as of yet  #Also just noticed someone else posted negative feedback for him this past Monday ...
> 
> HOWEVER ... other than needing a setup, it seems to sound and play fine.
> 
> Since I'm not a luthier, I plan to take it to the fine folks at Elderly to determine if it has structural problems, and have advised the seller accordingly ...
> ...


Hey everyone - this mando was a dream to play, especially after the fine folks at Elderly gave it a super going-over (including the removal of the cheesy pickguard). #Ended up putting it up on consignment there earlier this year after picking up a very nice 'burst Breedlove Quartz OO ...

But, the pancake bug bit me again, and on 12/8 I won a 1984 1N on the 'Bay.

Right out of the packing box with grungy strings, I think it plays as well as the 2MC ever did. #It's up at Elderly now for a set-up and repair of a small wood crack on the back.

Nice to see this thread has had such a long life ... seems fitting to keep it going.

fatt-dad, pics are in the 'Bay listing if you want to grab them for your project.

----------


## mikeyjc

If anyone wants to see how the 2MC turned out after the removal of the icky pickguard:

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-4467.htm

(Provides more pics / info for f-d's project, too.)

----------


## fatt-dad

mikeyjc, Thanks for the informative link to the Elderly site. No doubt this is a wonderful pancake! Just as an aside, I've focused my Flatiron archive project on those mandolins produced during and prior to 1987 (i.e., the pre-Gibson era). Somebody else (you?) can take over from there. . . . . 

f-d

----------


## mikeyjc

Ah, was late when I was catching up on this thread - missed that you were focusing on the pre-Gibson era. #The one I just bought on the 'Bay on 12/8 (Item #110063163973) is from 1984 ... if you want pics and the ones in the listing don't meet your standards, let me know and I'll shoot some for you when the '84 gets home from Lansing.

----------


## mikeyjc

f-d - also just sent you 2 e-mails with sad pics of a 1981 I bought and returned last summer ... 2nd e-mail has the whole album, OK to delete the first e-mail which just has one pic (user error on my part).

----------


## fatt-dad

> f-d - also just sent you 2 e-mails with sad pics of a 1981 I bought and returned last summer .


Mike, Got a serial number for the busted 81? Thanks also!

f-d

----------


## mikeyjc

f-d - appears from the pic to be 8102747, model 2M ... I only had it in hand for a few days before returning it to the seller.#

I also recall that the label included the "Backporch Productions" text.

Too bad - it was really a gorgeous instrument # #

----------


## delsbrother

Flatiron catalog in the MC classifieds. If someone here gets it, could you please post scans? (or are they already in this thread...?)

----------


## David Newton

I love the Flatiron pancakes, and the Gibson D-y's and A-n's so much I had to make my own. My friend has a real early Flatiron that I sort of went by, but the shape was lifted from a pattern of a Kalamazoo that I had. This one really rings.

----------


## fatt-dad

Nice mandolin Dave! Work up to production speed and corner the market - you can do it, it just takes a dream!!!

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

Awake after a 3 month slumber (and I'm posting against my earlier rave)!

When did the pancakes go from Bozeman to Belgrade? I noticed THIS auction for a 1N and the label says Belgrade, MT. The earlier ones were Bozeman. Anybody know the history? No doubt it relates to Gibson production, but other than that, I'm not sure . . . . 

f-d

----------


## David Newton

Good catch fatt-dad! Maybe the post office moved? Looks good, doesn't it? Guess on the selling price? Loser buys lunch.

----------


## fatt-dad

$327.56? Anything but fast food.

f-d

----------


## David Newton

If I was on one of those game shows I should say $328.00, but I'm all about fun. That thing is in pristine condition, and a great case, I'll say $400. Good bread, cheese, and a beer.
If that thing goes for low bucks, I'll be wailing, for what I want for the New Navys.
Looks like Belgrade is just a few miles from Bozeman, must have moved digs.

----------


## JEStanek

That one looks very nice. Pity I'm not in the market, although Dave is making some nice looking Pancakes in alternative woods that are very interesting...

Jamie

----------


## David Newton

Hey, what's alternative about walnut and mahogany and spruce?&lt;g&gt; I think Orville used walnut and mahogany for most of his. Some of the Army-Navys were mahogany. I know, I know, maple...
I hope someone soon (on this board) is going to find out how good they sound and play too.

----------


## David Newton

Well dad, looks like you owe me lunch, any time is good for me, that beauty went for $580! I wonder if the buyer is around here?

----------


## fatt-dad

$580.00!! I find that hard to believe for a Gibson-era 1N - it seemed clean though and likely a nice one.

O.K. on to lunch. . . . .  Where are you again? Anywhere close to Ashland, Virginia? There's a Wal-Mart there and I could buy you a Polish ring sausague and a quart of Old Mil - what you say?

f-d

----------


## PCypert

These prices are plain silly. I'd get a Gypsy new one for just a bit more or a new Big Muddy...reminds me of something that circus guy said about folks a while back 

Paul

----------


## David Newton

Since you are buying, I'll come to you. It may be a while, Texas won't let me leave...

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Why reserve high resale prices to just Gilchrist, Nugget, Dudenbostel, etc?

----------


## mandoforme

I bought a 1994 Flatiron 1N for $300 here in the classifieds. I am really enjoying it too!

----------


## 4Strings

Hello,

I just stumbled on this board and this thread about the Flatirons. That 1N that closed for $580 was bought by a German bidder...I shipped it off and am already regretting parting with it. I sure hope the IV A model I am building (still!) comes close to replacing it.

----------


## fatt-dad

I'm still building my IV kit also - ha. I know you'll miss the 1N, but that said, I've missed many that I've sold also. Ah, the fickle mandolin player - ha again. As a former owner, you have a seat on this thread as a lurker.

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

Fatt Dad, to you have this one in the registry? It's gorgeous! I especially like the koa sides.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

FD - 

Do you have this one in the archive? It's my 84 2MW

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Back-

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## David Newton

I know it's just another 1N, but hey, it's for sale.

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-Gibson-FlatIron-Mandolin-Prestine-Condition_W0QQitemZ270113217395QQihZ017QQcategoryZ  1

0179QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-Gi....iewItem</a>

Not mine, BTW
I just figured out that the one earlier (see above) went for $580, and this one is at $570 and hasn't hit the reserve.

----------


## fatt-dad

> FD - 
> 
> Do you have this one in the archive? It's my 84 2MW


Nice photo! If I know the serial number I can check if it's in the archive.

f-d

----------


## delsbrother

Is the archive online yet? I just joined the brotherhood with an '85 3MW mandola and wanted to check.

Also read in another post how neck-heavy the OM/Zouks are; ditto the mandola. The soundbox is so small and light, the mahogany neck is kind of tiring to hold up while playing. I'm also kind of afraid I'm going to crush the body as I hold it against my burly barrel-sized chest. 

I guess I'll try tying a strap to the headstock first, but is the treble side of the heel the accepted place for a strap pin?

----------


## sgarrity

So does anyone else have a sunburst pancake? #I've only seen two, my oval hole and then one of those funky f-hole models. #Forgot one...Thile's octave.

Shaun

----------


## fatt-dad

> Is the archive online yet? I just joined the brotherhood with an '85 3MW mandola and wanted to check.


No the archive is not online and I'm not quite caught up on adding new instruments. In the meanwhile, if you want to send me the serial number and photos that'd be great! You can email at fatt-dad AT comcast DOT net

f-d

----------


## Odell

Just got a Flatiron 1n off of ebay. Was worried because it was a compulsive bid and did not expect to win. Not much to look at but it sounds great and feels better. Those people in Montana sure knew/know there business.

Odell Flatiron a5 artist; weber ccustom bitterroot; and
Flatiron 1n

----------


## jefflester

This 3M on Ebay was discussed previously on page 7 of this thread. No label on the headstock.

----------


## jefflester

Woo hoo! 30,000 views!

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

About time this thread got up and running again

----------


## Buxton Bumpkin

I have a '94, MT made that my wife got for me as my first mando. I took lessons from a Celtic preferance guy that said he liked the treble side of mine better than his '27 Gibson brown top. It is my camping mando because its so nice and compact. I'll never sell it. Isn't there a certain date that would deliniate the move from MT to TN? I have heard (over heard) discussion that some 1Ns are kinda dead sounding but mine is very good. Not as good as the Yellowstone but amazingly 'stout' and good. The fat neck-flat board is good to go back to to practice some long reaches. (once you go blond you'll never forget)lol

p.s.-my 9N was rolled by somebody else and the steering wheel was quite bent!!

----------


## fatt-dad

I have no idea what a 94 Flatiron "MT" would be. . . Got any photos?  Is it a flattop mandolin?

Curious. . .

f-d

----------


## sgarrity

I think he's referring to it being made in Montana in 1994

----------


## Buxton Bumpkin

Yes, Belgrade, Montana, I think the same guys in that shop were/are the same folks at Weber now. It looks like the '94 3MW above without the binding. Blonde wood finish, tight grain spruce top(flat) nice maple sides and back, mohogany neck, rosewood finger board and it does have a truss rod, bone nut & schaller(i believe) tuners.

----------


## sgarrity

Anybody see the Gibby Army/Navy Custom at Elderly? #Almost makes me wanna trade my 2MB for it. #But $1400 is a bit pricy IMHO

They also have about 4 Flatiron Flattops for sale

----------


## DryBones

Shaun you may want to reread and edit this post! # #I can't believe THAT slipped through the filter #

----------


## sgarrity

Ooops.........my bad #

----------


## Chip Booth

Thought I would revive this thread...

Turns out I now have the pancake bug. I'm thinkining about the Flatiron koa, model 2K? How do you folks like koa compared to the maple ones? Does anyone have one they want to part with?

Chip

----------


## Eric F.

Go for it. I've had two 2Ks and two 2Ms pass through my home for wayward flattops. One of the 2Ks stood out as the best. It was REALLY loud, in a good way. Each was very crisp. I think the koa was a touch heavier on the mid-range than the maple. 

I used to just buy any Flatiron pancake I saw under a certain price, play it for a while, then sell it when I needed a few extra bucks. Sort of a savings plan you can enjoy while the interest accrues. My Big Muddy M-4 has cured me of that, although I still get a bit twitchy when I see a 2K at a reasonable price.

----------


## allenhopkins

My Flatiron 3K octave mandolin is koa. Sounds really good. Koa's closer to mahogany than maple, IMHO.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Check out <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Bozeman-FLATIRON-MANDOLIN-MODEL-1SH-w-Original-Case_W0QQitemZ330216632210QQihZ014QQcategor
yZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">this</a> Pancake! It's perhaps the oldest I've seen - 1981. Looks to be in good shape.

Time to get this thread up and running again

----------


## steadypluckinaway

Why not, I'll bite; I just got my 3MC back. She's a beauty, and it sat here on the classifieds for a bit while I was nervously scrapin' cash together. I love this mando, it is such a beast!  :Cool:

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

A Pancake <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1996-Gibson-AN-Custom-Mandolin-New-Flamy-Old-Stock_W0QQitemZ350034728641QQihZ022QQcategory
Z10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Deluxe</a> and with extra syurp. Very tasty version!

----------


## Chip Booth

Yum!

----------


## Chip Booth

I thought this thread needed a bump, so I bought this little guy.  

I played it against a couple of other Flatiron pancakes a few weeks and it was the winner in sound hands down, plus I was hoping to find a nice koa instrument. #It should arrive in a day or two.

Chip

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Beautiful Koa on that Pancake! Nice assist in bumping the thread  

We're expecting a report with more pictures when you receive it.

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

I had a 1983 model 1SH - no idea what the model means. I had it for 20 years. I really enjoyed playing it. I only sold it because it had appreciated so much and allowed me to start my MAS collection.

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

I just saw the 1SH a couple of posts back. Because of the nick in the back at the edge I believe it to be my old one. Nice to see it again......

----------


## Chip Booth

Got the 2K today, less than 24 hours after I ordered it! It's an '83, in good shape, especially the koa. The top has a few minor cosmetic issues but nothing of consequence. It sure is fun to play! I haven't spent a lot of time with these pancakes, but my first reaction is that this is a very serious instrument and that I will get a lot of good use out of. It strums in a way that none of archtops do.

I'll try to post more pics and sound clip.

Chip

----------


## fatt-dad

1SH - the basic pancake, spruce top, maple sides and back with the "SH"aded top. Not to be confused with the 1N with the "N"atural top.

For reference the 2N would have body binding and be in a "N"atural top.

Get it?

f-d

----------


## Chip Booth

After spending an evening with my 2K I am just as happy as I can be. I can't believe how much mandolin this little thing is. It's incredibly loud, sweet and very full, with a rich low end and ringing top end. 

But you guys all already knew that didn't you? 

Chip

Beautiful koa back:

----------


## Chip Booth

Front:

Someone put a Fishman bridge pickup on it. There is another bridge in the case (the original hardshell five latch case BTW) but I don't think it's original either as it has too much arch and is too high. So I cut off the carpenter jack and left this one on for now. The jack has been on there for a long time and left a little discoloration on the top underneath where it was. I hope that with some years of sun the top will even out a little bit.

----------


## Chip Booth

Koa headstock as well. #Ok, that's all the pics for now, although it does have interesting tuners with a sort of flower motif in the etching. #I assume they are original, they look right.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Yes, those tuners look original. Not sure what brand they are. Same ones as I have on my 86 2MW. I had a mid 90's 1N and it had Schaller tuners on it. 

That's some beautiful looking Koa on the back. These little Pancakes really pour out the tone and volume!

Great to see this thread back up here again

----------


## fatt-dad

Wow! Perfect finish. Love it!

f-d

----------


## Eric F.

Beautiful mando. I'm no longer a member of the Pancake Club, though still a Flatiron owner. Chip's pics have me thinking I need another pancake, though. Yum!

----------


## epicentre

One more time;

Yep, well that worked after a fashion. Kinda small.

Well aged spruce top, poplar back, white cedar sides, maple neck, Cumberland Acoustic fretboard, bone nut, pinned mortise and tenon neck join.

Has low action and great sound. Finally got a neck angle right....

----------


## Dan Adams

I was just playing my 83' Flatiron 2MB while thumbing through some old Mandolin World News publications from my past and came across a Flatiron ad for their mandolins. The oldest 'pancake' I've ever seen and/or played was made in 1979, which was at the Denver Folklore Center a couple years ago. This ad is in the Winter 1979-80 edition with Ry Cooder featured. Is this the first Flatiron ad ever? Just wondering! Dan

----------


## Mace

Having played our weekly jam with my 87 1N this week, I realized why I've kept it while so many others have come and gone. It used to be my loaner although that policy is about to change. It is no longer in the near mint condition as when I first acquired it showing its age and use now. It just keeps sounding better to my ears. Occasionaly, I go looking for a hardcase for it. Any suggestions?

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

If you are brave enough to sift through the initial pages of this thread, there are some comments about cases. I've yet to find a manufacturer who makes cases for these Pancakes

----------


## JeffD

Flatiron 3MW mandola 1984 SN#8409226

I just wanted to be the 900th poster on this thread.

----------


## blacktop

i didn't read all 900 posts, but i loved my little flatiron buddy. bought in 1988 from quigley music in k.c. after being on vacation, and watching a guy play mandolin in the ozarks. my 1st- for about 325.00. i traded up later, and have missed it ever since. it actually came back to the music store i traded it to[georges music],and i passed on it. stupid. blacktop.

----------


## Chip Booth

Nice post Jeff!

I've not played a mandola or octave pancake but from the think the nature of the tone of my 2K mandolin I would think this design is fantastic for the lower registered instruments, maybe even better suited than for a mandolin.

Chip

----------


## mikeyjc

Can't believe this thread is still active  

I've owned and sold 3 or 4 of these over the years, and just picked up another one that needed some work (glue/cleat a few body separations, plus a minor headstock repair). Cosmetically challenged (she was played hard), yes - but, DANG does she play and sound nice now (thanks to Kjell @ Elderly)!

Just hard to beat these mandos IMO.

 - Mike

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Just had to do a search and be sure this thread was still around.

----------


## radiognome3

Thought I would post my (possibly inane)question here: do the old Gibson Army-Navy mandos have a similar tone/volume as the Flatirons? I am looking for a Flatiron, but have been thinking, what the heck, might as well get a Gibson, if they are as well regarded as the Flatirons.

Thanks,
John

----------


## fatt-dad

I've never played an old Gibson pancake. I had a Kalamazoo, however and my Flatiron beat the snot ot of it. Nothing wrong with the Kalamazoo, but when it came time to sell, the "zoo" went and the Flatiron stayed.

----------


## radiognome3

Thanks for the input. The Flatirons receive almost across the board thumbs-up (the only mando I have read about to be liked by most everybody), I think I will just wait for one of those to come up. I have seen a few for sale online with some damage - are they delicate, or do they just get played so dang much that the inevitable knocking around finally gets to them? Thanks, again.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

I don't think the Pancakes are delicate. They seem to be well made. A good number of the early (WW I) Gibson Army Navy's are still around - that says a lot about how they were built. I think the Flatiron Pancakes are essentially the same design. I've seen some abused ones for sale on Ebay but I think it a result of negligent ownership.

----------


## Weagle

Just wanted to be part of the thread. Got my Flatiron 1N too. For the $$$$$ one the best purchases I've made. My little blond beauty is great.

Weagle

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Welcome aboard! How about some pictures??

----------


## fatt-dad

The problem with Flatiron pancakes is folks put J-74's (or the equivalent) on them and it bends the neck. If you stick with the proper string gauge, they work just fine (and to me sound better).

f-d

----------


## Chip Booth

> Thought I would post my (possibly inane)question here: do the old Gibson Army-Navy mandos have a similar tone/volume as the Flatirons?


In my limited experience no Gibson Army/Navy I have played has sounded as good as the best Flatiron pancakes I have heard. Not all Flatirons are a home run either, but when they are good they are really good.

Chip

----------


## dburtnett

Well, I've just shipped off my second Flatiron Pancake after making a sale here on Cafe classifieds, am trying not to fall too deeply into seller's remorse. It sold so quickly, and got such a fast and furious response, I might have under-priced it a bit. But hey... maybe good karma...

The first one bought and sold was a Koa back/side mandolin, a 1991 I think. Today I shipped out a 1990 2M mandola with gorgeous birdseye maple back/sides. #I'm now on the hunt for an Flatiron Octave to compliment my tenor guitar collection. 

I've loved the sound each pancake has produced, and kept trying to convince myself that I could get into (and good at) a shorter scale... but to no avail.

There is just something so beautiful about these little flatirons... can't wait for my next one.

Daryl

----------


## Onesound

To be honest, I didn't have the patience to wade through every single posting in this thread, so I appologize if these ads have already been uploaded. #I was flipping through an old stack of Frets magazines and found these Flatiron Pancake adds. They date from 1979 to 1985.

It was during one of those years that I ordered mine from Elderly, eventually selling it to fund another instrument. #I've been kicking myself ever since. #Tight wad that I am, I always balked at buying a used one at nearly three times the price of my original. #When I recently saw the RedLine Traveler advertised in the Classifieds, I knew that my pancake fasting was finally over. #Hope to get it in a month or so.

----------


## sgarrity

I'm working on some YouTube videos of me playing the 'burst 2MB I have. Once they're complete, I'll post a link.

----------


## Mace

My recent Stradolin is getting more playing time.....this thread keeps my priorities straight when I star thinking about reducing down....I do love my 1N even with the playing wear I've put on it.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[QUOTE]I'm working on some YouTube videos of me playing the 'burst 2MB I have. Once they're complete, I'll post a link.


COOL!

----------


## sgarrity

Ok.....I really haven't been playing much this summer and it definitely shows in these videos. But they were fun to do anyway. And I'll be adding some more old-time type stuff in the next few weeks. Click on the link in my signature and it'll take you to my video page. I recorded Amazing Grace and The Girl I Left Behind Me. Hope you enjoy!

----------


## man dough nollij

Hey Shaun,

That sounds great! The Girl will definitely be the next song I learn. You don't have tabs by any chance?

----------


## JEStanek

Lee,
Here are some tabs for the Girl I Left Behind Me from Mandozine.com. #You'll need the TablEdit software (free there). #Mandozine is my first stop for looking for mandolin tab/notation. #Shaun may have his version from another source...

Jamie

PS, Shaun, Nice pickin, man.

----------


## sgarrity

Thanks for the kind words. As for tab, I don't really remember where I learned those versions. But like Jamie suggested, mandozine is a great tab resource

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Nice job Shaun! Fine tone coming out of that Pancake

----------


## Jude Reinhardt

Here are some pics of my 2M. I found this thread last night and have read to page 10. I'm proud to be part of the fraternity.  :Smile:  I bought this one on ebay and it was described as being in excellent condition. Ha! Boy, talk about buyer remorse, but then I suppose one person's excellent is another persons pretty good with issues. There's a crack in the top going from the sound hole to the corner of the fingerboard on the G strings side. There's a cross brace under the end of the fingerboard so it can't get any worse but I'll glue a diamond shaped cleat under the top where it's at for insurance. It's got some fret wear on the first seven frets and as you can see in the bridge pic the strings have been lowered to the point where a neck reset might have to be done in the future. Right now it's very playable with light gauge strings. The necks good and straight with just smidgen of relief. The label reads- The Flatiron Mandolin, Model No. 2M, Serial No. 82031474, Handmade in Boseman, MT by Backporch Productions. There's no label giving recommended string gauges. I'm liking it more and more everyday. I probably paid too much for it but someday it'll be worth what I paid for it. I don't think they're going to get any cheaper. Take care and thanks to everyone that's posted so far.
Jude

----------


## Eddie Sheehy

My latest acquisition, a 3MC Bouzouki.  This was special-ordered in 1995 - I even got the original receipt with it.  It came with a pickup installed and a custom HSC - the HSC cost $168 IN 1995. It has an unbelievable sound.  Check it out in my album below...

----------


## Jill McAuley

Hey there, kind of a newbie, kind of not - I used to post here about a year ago as "ruraltradpunk". I'll soon be joining the Flatiron club as I have a 1985 2M in transit as we speak, an ebay purchase so I'm keeping everything crossed that it really is in the excellent condition the seller reports it as being, and hoping that no one in it's past has put heavy strings on it! I've been wanting a Flatiron Pancake since seeing one at The Acoustic Music Co. in Brighton UK in July '07. At the time it wasn't in my price range. I moved to the States 6 months ago and while I've seen quite a few nice mandolins going I really had my heart set on a Flatiron. Missed out on one in the classifieds here a few weeks ago and also missed out on a nice looking '82 2M on ebay about a week before I found my one. I'll post pictures of mine once it arrives - wish me luck!

Cheers,
Jill

----------


## fatt-dad

Good job Jill!  And, a pre-Gibson pancake to boot!  Hope it's great and looking forward to the photos and favorable review.

f-d

----------


## Jill McAuley

Well my 1985 Flatiron 2M arrived a few days ago and I gotta say I was pretty nervous what with it being an ebay purchase. Luckily the nerves were unjustified because I couldn't be happier with it! Aside from a few dings on the top it's in great shape - straight neck, no cracks, hardly any wear on the frets at all. The strings on it were absolutely black - first thing I did was re-string it and it sounds fantastic! And it came with it's original case too, which is also in great shape. I primarily play Irish trad stuff and the 2M is really well suited for that. I literally haven't been able to put it down since it got here. Here are some photos of it - the light outside wasn't great when I took these, so the photo of the back doesn't do it proper justice.

Cheers,
Jill

----------


## fatt-dad

Wow!  What a nice-looking 24-year-old mandolin!  Congratulations, Jill!  Just make sure you use the correct string gauge.  I've found that the GHS A-250s (if I recall correctly) are the perfect gauge for the specification of these old pancakes.

f-d

----------


## Jill McAuley

Ah, thanks to this thread I had a set of GHS A-250's here waiting for the 2M's arrival!

Cheers,
Jill

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

That's a mighty fine Pancake. Beautiful silking on the top, Birdseye on the back and Rosewood Headstock overlay. The Hardshell Case is very hard to find these days. 

I love this thread!  :Mandosmiley:

----------


## Capt. E

I here about the 1N's and 2N's, but I searched this thread and there was no comment about the Flatiron 1CH. How common is the chocolate stain? There is a '92 one for sale at a shop here in Austin. Good fair price and plays great.

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Flatiron made some Pancake models in their Performer Series line called Cadets. IIRC, they made them with a Brown/Chocolate finish, a Red/Cherry finish and a Black finish. I don't see the Cadets floating around too often and if I do, it's usually a Black one. Not sure how many they made in the Cadet line. I suspect that information would be difficult to obtain.

That little picker is calling your name - you had better go buy it and take it home  :Mandosmiley:  :Mandosmiley: 

Long live this thread  :Laughing:  :Laughing:

----------


## Capt. E

Yeah, that's the bottom line...if it calls to me or not. The label does say 1ch, not cadet. Made in '92. They want $550 with a cheap, worn case. Not really a bargin, but it is a nice player and I have been looking for another pancake style since I sold my Mid-Missouri M-0 (a mistake).

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## pickinNgrinnin

I don't think the labels had the Cadet name, just the color scheme designation. For $550.00 with a worn case, they are not exactly giving it away -although it's in the ballpark. Perhaps they would take less if you made an offer. FWIW, I've yet to play a Mid Missouri that sounded as good as these Flatirons. YMMV

----------


## Jim Kirkland

WOW, I finally read the entire post.  Sure is a lot of history here.  Thanks to pickinNgrinnin I found out about the thread.  Based upon pickinNgrinnin's comments, (thank you for the push) I did buy a 96 flatiron, 1N, Bruce Weber signed, with orginial case.  Has 1 small ding, other that that, looks new. I'm the 2nd owner.  Orginial owner just pretty much bought mandos, played a little, put away and then sold.  I will pick it up as soon as I get to Albq.  I will post pics soon.  I will be traveling around for the next month (seeing the daughter off to Iraq) and I am sure I will be looking in all the unsual places for the little flat round hole mandos.

----------


## Capt. E

With sales tax of 8.25% the price will be up towards $600. They won't take less right now so I will probably pass right now. I could probably find a 1N or even a 2N for that price if I keep my eye peeled.

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## pickinNgrinnin

Jim, 

Reading the entire thread is indeed, a daunting task - a task reserved for the truly devoted. That's a lot of Pancake information to digest  :Laughing:   A Weber signed Pancake is pretty uncommon - something usually reserved for the Flatiron Signature Series Carved tops. Bruce's signature will certainly add extra mojo. Glad to hear you reeled this one in - they are great little pickers. Be sure to post pictures when you get it home.

Capt. E - there are a few Pancakes on Ebay right now, including a 2M for a best offer. It's a pre Gibson 82 and comes with the original case. I wouldn't worry about the repaired top crack as it's a pretty small one. You might be able to pick this one up at a good price. Good luck!

----------


## Capt. E

Ask and you shall receive...

I just bought a Mid-Mo M1 in near new condition with case etc and paid only $300 plus sales tax. Someone brought it in to the shop just yesterday. Just what I was looking for. It's not a Flatiron, but it does what I want.

----------


## mistermyro

Hi all,
I’ve just acquired a beautiful 2K Mandola that even the wife said had to come home with us. Great overall shape but the action is a bit high.  # 8205***  with original case. I’m pleased.

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## pickinNgrinnin

That's an early one. Post some pictures if you can. A good set up will help it play much easier. The original case is frosting on the cake. Welcome aboard!  :Mandosmiley:

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow, I haven't visited this thread in a while. But I do still have my 1N. About 4 years ago I bought and sold several Flatiron pancake mandolins. You can search this thread to see some of them. One of them was a 1980 Flatiron 3 with f-holes instead of the round hole. A fellow Cafe user sent me a message recently, saying he had seen the pictures in this thread but the link I had for the sound clip was dead. Well, yes, I took down the page quite a while ago which I had set up to sell the mando. But I did find the files today and thought I would set it up again. So once again you can enjoy the sound of the 1980 Flatiron F-Hole Pancake I once had. Thanks!

*1980 Flatiron 3 Army-Navy f-hole mandolin*

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## DerTiefster

And I appreciated Nathan's looking up the files and reposting them.  Since I became acquainted with this thread, I became acquainted wih a Flatiron 2MB mandola.  I think it sounds interesting and am using it for now as bratsche mentioned awayyyyyy back long years in this thread, as an Octave Mandolin.  Maybe someday I'll find an appropriate Octave Mandolin to keep it company and return it to mandola status.  Most why I'm doing this now is that it provides me an octave mandolin with near-mandolin scale length.  It is supposed to have 0.012"-0.049" strings and it came with an 0.051"to 0.052" G string.  I'm planning to put FT76s on it with an 0.053" G string to try to get the tension up a bit keeping octave GDAE tuning.  I'll have to remember not to tune to CGDA that way, though.  It's really a beautiful mandola, as even my wife agrees.  Of course she always agrees with me.

Y'all did believe that last sentence, didn't you?

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## sgarrity

I can post another compulsiver purchase.....a Flatiron octave mandolin.  It's a '93 model.  I've lost count of the number of these Flatiron flattops I've owned.  I think it's approaching ten....
Pics in a week or so

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## delsbrother

Is this really what they were selling in Opryland? If so, yikes. That neck joint looks nothing like a Flatiron!

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## fatt-dad

Yes, this is the Opryland pancake, sigh.  Notice the "truss-rod" cover.  It's solid wood below.  There is no truss rod, it's just a cover!  Bracing below is much thicker.  A terrible knock-off of a successful and simple design.

This thread is like an old friend, eh?

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Wow, it's great to find this thread once in a while and see what is happening in Pancake World. I still have my 1N, and I recently acquired a Redline Traveler from a fellow Cafe Member. I'd have to say I am really impressed with the Traveler and excited there is someone building the army-navy style again. Hopefully soon I'll have a video made so you can enjoy the sound of it like I am. Here's a picture of my RedLine Traveler from the Classifieds listing.

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## Eric F.

My latest 2M is in the office with me today. Like Shaun, I've lost count of how many of these I've owned. I think I'm done with catch and release, though. Of course, I've said that before.

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## fatt-dad

Just for the record, I still have my same old pancake. It's getting some battle scars and started with one from the prior owner. It still gets lots of play and I love it.

f-d

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## mandoross

I have a 2M that I bought new in 1981. I had a radiused fretboard put on it. Still plays and sounds great.

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## fatt-dad

Today's photo (cell phone):



Strap from Guatemala - a gift from my mom 20 years ago, or so.  It's travelled on a few of my mandolins over the years.

f-d

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## AnneFlies

I have had a '93 Flatiron A5 Artist for a few years (my first one), and love it.  A recent trip to Elderly's to buy an '81 Flatiron 1N - I so had my heart set on buying my 2nd mandolin (I don't count the Chinese Loar because it's just a cheapie for camping trips).   

Unfortunately, the 1N at Elderly's had been banged pretty badly on the side and glued in place, and broke my heart.  It needed a better repair than that, but I couldn't do it and wasn't willing to pay for that and all the other repairs it needed.  I had also replied to an ad here for a flat-top, but the seller never responded.  I was getting a little discouraged, but on the way out of Elderly's a Weber Y2K2 jumped into my arms and told me it was going home with me.  It's a great instrument, and sounds different enough from the A5 that I'm really happy with it.  

BTW, both the A5 and the Y2K2 were signed by Bruce Weber.  That guy must have writer's cramp by now.

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## pickinNgrinnin

Very cool Mando Strap FD! Your Pancake is beginning to look well loved. Great to see this thread back up and running again.

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## Bill Van Liere

Last Saturday I play the Spirit Of The Woods Folk Festival in Brethren, MI. I had the pleasure of sharing the stage with the Juggernaut Jug Band from Louisville KY (I think). Standing back stage I heard this great sounding oval hole mandolin being played by one their members. What pleasant surprise it was to find out it was nice chocolate colored pancake from the early years. Sweet sounding, gently worn old Flatiron that sounded as good as any oval I have ever heard.

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## AnneFlies

Finally found a 1N on the classified ads here.  Bought it before I went on vacation in Idaho, the seller was kind enough to hold shipping until I returned.  Now I can't wait to see it - tomorrow!  Don't know if I paid a fair price, overpaid, underpaid, but anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  I only hope it's in as good as condition as advertised - if so, it's a real gem.

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## Ed Goist

Congratulations AnneFlies!
Be sure to keep us posted, and post pics once you get it!

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## fatt-dad

> Finally found a 1N on the classified ads here.  Bought it before I went on vacation in Idaho, the seller was kind enough to hold shipping until I returned.  Now I can't wait to see it - tomorrow!  Don't know if I paid a fair price, overpaid, underpaid, but anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  I only hope it's in as good as condition as advertised - if so, it's a real gem.


go back to page 1 and do your homework now. . .  Use light gauge strings for sure. I like the GHS A-250s.

congratulations and we do need photos for sure!

f-d

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## Nathan Sanders

Stopping by the ole Compulsive Pancake thread to say Hey. And I recently acquired a Flatiron Bouzouki. This is my second, as I had one a few years ago and sold it. The one I just got is a '95 model and sounds awesome. I'll try to get some pictures and videos going soon.

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## DerTiefster

I used to enjoy the 3MB mandola I had. I sold it to fund purchase of a 3K bouzouki which I also enjoy and hope not to part with for some long time.  I ought to post some 3K pics.  Maybe you'll beat me to the punch.  Maybe not.

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## Nathan Sanders

Finally made a video of my Flatiron bouzouki.

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## Nathan Sanders

How about one more video:

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## sgarrity

Awesome playing Nathan!

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## Jeff Oxley

Ditto...love those bathroom acoustics.  Glad to see I'm not the only one that does the greatest thinking on the porcelain throne...

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## pickinNgrinnin

Way to pick that Bouzouki! I love this thread :Mandosmiley:

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## Jeffff

This is my first mandolin. I picked it up about a month ago. Even though it needs a partial refret I am amazed by its sound. And it is beautiful!






It's an 84 2MW

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## bratsche

Wow, 39 pages and still going strong - this thread is epic!  I remember being around at its inception (2004?), when I had just snagged my Flatiron 1N mandola for a ridiculously low B-I-N on da 'Bay.   I'm sure I probably chronicled all my experimentation along the way.  

To recap, I ended up stripping the heavy lacquer off it, and refinishing it very, very lightly.  Now that I have added a couple more mandolas to the herd, this one it has found its permanent niche as my extremely short-scaled octave mandola, strung with Thomastik 154s.   Finally, I added an over-the-tailpiece armrest that I made myself for it.

For those who didn't see it on the other post-a-video thread, here is what it sounds (and looks) like: 

Bach: Sarabande (Cello Suite No. 6) on Mandola


Fun instrument.  Best $275 I ever spent!  

bratsche

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## sgarrity

It certainly is an epic thread.  I show up on page 5.  I've owned around 10 of these now in mando, mandola, and 'zouk.  I really regret selling the 2MB sunburst I had a few years ago.  But I do enjoy the 'zouk I currently have.

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## Nathan Sanders

This thread is definitely one of the big highlights of the forum. I show up about page 4. And like, Shaun, I've bought and sold several of the Flatirons, most of them chronicled in this very thread. I even had a Redline for a short time. I still have my initial '93 1N. I'll try to make some videos with it soon. I'm on my second zouk and plan to keep it for a good while. Of all the pancakes I've had though, I've never had a mandola. Someday. Let's keep it going.............

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## VicAjax

Hi all.

Way back in 1989, my grandmother gave me a mandolin as a high school graduation present, and together we picked out "Lara's Theme" from _Doctor Zhivago_. I'm primarily a guitarist, and I didn't really know anything about mandolins (still don't), but i fell in love with this thing.  Almost stopped playing guitar for several years in favor of my little black mando, but then I put it away and hadn't really thought about it until a few days ago.

It's a Flatiron Cadet, I think from 1988 (serial number is 88somethingsomething), and it looks to be in just about mint condition... i'm not sure how i managed that, since i beat it up constantly through college.  just ordered a new pair of strings for it, and plan to start playing around with it again.

Can anyone give me advice on how to tweak the intonation with the floating bridge?  it seems to be mostly ok, but could use some fine tuning.

thanks!

Oh, and this is an EPIC thread, btw.

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## fatt-dad

the nice thing about a floating bridge is you can float it toward the nut or the tailpiece to get the intonation just right.  slacken the strings a bit (to make sliding the bridge easier), get a tuner and make the open string note an octave lower than the 12-fret note.  It's as easy as it sounds.  I'd do it for one of the high e strings and one of the low g strings and call it done (of course it doesn't really matter whether they are slacked to a lower note).

I have no idea what page I show up on, but it remains an epic thread for sure and I still love my pancake!

f-d

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## VicAjax

> the nice thing about a floating bridge is you can float it toward the nut or the tailpiece to get the intonation just right.  slacken the strings a bit (to make sliding the bridge easier), get a tuner and make the open string note an octave lower than the 12-fret note.  It's as easy as it sounds.  I'd do it for one of the high e strings and one of the low g strings and call it done (of course it doesn't really matter whether they are slacked to a lower note).
> 
> I have no idea what page I show up on, but it remains an epic thread for sure and I still love my pancake!
> 
> f-d


awesome... sounds easier than my guitar... thanks!

any advice on how to judge whether the frets and the neck are healthy, other than just playing?

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## DerTiefster

It really is very easy.  But I've found that upon re-tensioning the other strings, those strings don't always slide on the bridge saddle, and can cause the bridge to tilt toward the headstock.  But this is a tractable problem.  Have a great time with your Cadet.

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## kirkw101

I will first say that I've only read about 5 pages of this epic mandolin story. But let me add a odd find. It is not in my hands gets but look at these pics and PLEASE give me insight on this thing. What I know (or think I know). 1988 px 1917, black top. okay that's about all I got. I know giggly bought Flatty in 87, but the label is odd. Performer on a pancake. Photos will tell the store so here goes.........

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## Nathan Sanders

That is an odd label Kirk. I wonder what happened there?

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## Nathan Sanders

Hey, as a follow up to my some of my recent posts about my recently acquired Flatiron Bouzouki. Well, the zouk has found another home. I traded it for sort of a close relative --- a Weber Bitterroot F mandolin. And it was a great trade all the way around for both parties. I'll try to get some videos posted soon.

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## kirkw101

as goofy as it is to see performer on that label I think its legit. I bet some knucklehead at gibson had a bright idea and this was it.

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## Nathan Sanders

Here's a theory. Maybe someone had the idea of sort of a memorial to the original Gibson army-navy mandolin, referring to this one as the "px" in reference to the post exchange(?) where a soldier might have bought a new army-navy mando in 1917. I once had a Gibson Alrite mandolin from 1917. It was in rough shape and needed lots of work.

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## Steve Carlson

> Here's a theory. Maybe someone had the idea of sort of a memorial to the original Gibson army-navy mandolin, referring to this one as the "px" in reference to the post exchange(?) where a soldier might have bought a new army-navy mando in 1917. I once had a Gibson Alrite mandolin from 1917. It was in rough shape and needed lots of work.


Thanks for the heads up on this "fatt-dad",

Good info and deductive reasoning in the reference above.

This instrument ties out specifically to the Performer Series.  If recollection serves, the Gibson Reps were always complaining about price points. 'If only they were cheaper' I would here. And I was always at odds with the reps because very few of them actually sold anything on their own merit as a salesperson. The bulk of our Flatiron sales (after the Gibson purchase) were with already established 'Flatiron' accounts which the reps would 'visit' . . . when in the area . . . and we had to pay them a commission for this. It was an on going aggravation for me. So at the next Sales Meeting, the Performer Series accomplished for me . . . "OK, here it is, let's see you sell it". And nothing changed with the reps, and our good customers added to their Flatiron inventory the Performer Series. And Reps in a good Flatiron dealer area made more commissions.

Performer Flat, Performer A, Performer F. These were all less expensive instruments with perhaps the gigging musician in mind.

This particular instrument: #3982 made in September of 1988 was inspired by an early Gibson 'Alrite' mandolin with a 1917 date, that wandered into our shop one day. I had never seen one before. I'm not sure how many of this model were made as I believe the name 'Cadet' replaced it. Both names however, were intended as a homage to the 'Army-Navy' Gibson.

Note: In '88 there were no knuckleheads at Gibson that I knew of. Everyone was working hard to put Gibson back on the map and create a 2nd 'Golden-Era' of instruments in the Gibson legacy.

Best,
Steve Carlson

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## fatt-dad

. . . and now we know the rest of the story.  Thanks Steve!

f-d

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## Steve Carlson

> . . . and now we know the rest of the story.  Thanks Steve!
> 
> f-d


 :Laughing:  . . . anytime.

Steve

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## Nathan Sanders

Thanks for the history Steve. As you can find in this thread, several Flatiron flat tops have gone through my hands, most of them from the 90s, but I did have one with f-holes from the 80s for a short time. And I still have my 1N. Great mandos!

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## pickinNgrinnin

How cool is it to have Steve Carlson posting to this epic thread???

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## Tim Pike

My 1987 2M Mandola - so very sweet sounding! Great thread, I hope it can keep going! And yes, how cool it is to have Mr Carlson on board!

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## DerTiefster

Funny, that Tim Pike mentioned a 2M mandola he'd found.  I came across a '93 mfr. 2K mandola in AZ, some aridity cracks to be repaired (by the esteemed John Hamlett) and no case, so I'll be adapting a TKL 8852 from another cafe denizen for it.  I'm looking forward to receiving it later this year.  It's in good hands for assessment and repair now.

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## PWS

Hi guys!

I've just spent the last couple of days reading this thread--not constantly--but that's how long it's taken me to get to this point where I'm actually posting. And I'm posting, and indeed I've read this entire thread, because I am the proud owner of a new (only to me) '79 Flatiron 3 mandolin. It is quite the instrument and my skills don't do it justice but now I have the rest of my life to change that. It has a very interesting story:

I am a guitar player but I owned a cheap mandolin a bunch of years ago and had fun playing it until it fell apart and the dog got a hold of it. At any rate I was perusing the classifieds on the Acoustic Guitar Forum when I stumbled across an offering for a Mandolin and since I've always wanted to replace the one I had, I began to correspond with the fellow. He was from Bozeman, Montana and the story of the mandolin was that it was made for his father. Indeed on the label it says: The Flatiron Mandolin, Model: Flatiron 3, Serial 7906020 M. Tyers, Handmade in Bozeman, MT by Backporch Productions.

The fellow I bought it from's name was M. Tyers, a great guy who made the whole transaction very enjoyable. At any rate, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading up on all this stuff--I had no idea! And it indeed packs a punch in the tone department!

There are a few finish cracks but otherwise it is in incredible shape, I will post pics when I get a chance.

Have a great holiday season out there, you pickers and I salute you all!

Cheers, Peter

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## fatt-dad

I saw that mandolin and thought what a cool instrument.  I'm so glad it's with somebody that will appreciate it.  I'm pretty sure, in spite of all the fun I've had over the years buying nice mandolins I could live a very happy life with my 1N.  It's a lifetime instrument for me, unless my son borrows it for a spell - ha.

I'm also glad you read this thread.  Quite an archive, eh?  I like the GHS A-250 strings on mine.  You did see the posts about the recommended string gauges, eh?

Welcome!

f-d

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## PWS

I sure did. And then many references to it. A funny story is that when I got it, I hadn't played a mandolin in a long time and when I tuned it up (with help from Wikipedia) and strummed it, I thought, "hmmm, this will take a bit of getting used to this sound." After a bit I realized that I was an octave too low. When I (redfaced) brought it up to pitch all was well.

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## jesserules

Looks like Elderly just got a bunch of Flatiron pancakes in.

(No financial interest on my part, just a heads up in case anyone's looking.)

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## Nathan Sanders

Thought I would add a picture of the current collection, though the Weber is about to find a new home.

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## Jim Garber

Wow. This is one of the longest running threads on the Cafe. Approaching its 1000th post.

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## fatt-dad

I'm just reporting that I tried the D'adderio FW-74s on my 1N and thought them too heavy.  It was more the feel than the gauge.  So, I went with the Thomistik Mittel and love them!  They are just great and have a wonderful feel and tone.  I'm not sure they take away any (much) volume, but they do feel great.

A high cost string for a humble instrument though. . .

f-d

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## fatt-dad

yesterday at the beach.  My '84 1N



f-d

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## JeffD

I recently sold my 3MW 1984 mandola. I sold it to a friend of mine, who loves it and plays it regularly. I get all nostalgic when I see it, though, all the places I took it, all the fun I had with it. He lets me play it now and again, and it just sounds wonderful.


I was part of a small syndicate, where we found this Gibson Army Navy in an antique (junk) shop, that looked in terrible condition. We had it professionally restored to playability and intend to sell it for just over what we have in it.  

The Gibson sounds great. I have to admit it sounds more like my 1923 A2 than any Flatiron I have played.


I think that family of Flatiron instruments, the mandolin, mandola, and the bouzouki, is classic wonderful, and I sometimes regret selling it.

Wistful is the word.

----------


## David Newton

Here's my latest Army-Navy style mandolin.
Disclosure: Huge financial interest.

----------

Jim Garber, 

MaggieMae

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## Markelberry

Wow after all this time I found another Flatiron pancake! 81 1N beautiful birdseye maple perfectly bookmatched!

----------


## fatt-dad

price check:  An '83 1N in the original 5-latch case just sold on eBay for $430.00.  I love mine, sure the new owner will appreciate theirs too!  I'd think retail would have been closer to $600.00, so somebody got a good deal too!

f-d

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## pheffernan

> price check:  An '83 1N in the original 5-latch case just sold on eBay for $430.00.  I love mine, sure the new owner will appreciate theirs too!  I'd think retail would have been closer to $600.00, so somebody got a good deal too!


Was that the one with the cigarette burn and bandaid residue?  :Smile:

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## Markelberry

Ijust missed that by a hair was trying to get the case for my 81#1132 made


> price check:  An '83 1N in the original 5-latch case just sold on eBay for $430.00.  I love mine, sure the new owner will appreciate theirs too!  I'd think retail would have been closer to $600.00, so somebody got a good deal too!
> 
> f-d

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## Markelberry

> Was that the one with the cigarette burn and bandaid residue?


Yepper!

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## Markelberry

This my 1981 1N ,the back has very cool birdseye with flame though a little hard to see in these pics

----------

fatt-dad

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## Markelberry

Mr. Carlson what year was the first 1N built? Ive seen a pic of Bruce Webers ? I think it was a 79 no logo on front

thanks in advance 
Mark

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## Markelberry

I read that article #1332? oops just realized yours was a 79 the story I read was very similar, it was #81111332 the fellow had helped on the build and spoke of his father helping paint the little red barn?He gave the instrument to his father. Ill try and find the link

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## Franc Homier Lieu

Got an '83 1N today. What can I say that has not been said in the 1002 previous posts? Beautiful. Simple. Playable. Sweet tone. Great volume. Going to play it all day tomorrow.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## fatt-dad

welcome Franc!

f-d

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## Franc Homier Lieu

Been alternating between playing the new 1N and reading this old thread most of the day. The guy I bought it from assured me that he followed the string gauge recommendation on the sticker inside, but I have been playing and comparing the strings to the J74s on my Eastman 505 and the Elixir lights on my son's Rover, and I don't think the 1N has light gauges on it, so I tuned all the strings down a couple of steps and will get some new strings first thing tomorrow. It is quite playable as is, though I think the action could be lowered slightly up the neck. The intonation is bang on for the A, E, and D strings, but I will need to tweak the bridge to get the G right.

----------


## whaler

It is with bleary eyes that I report having read 1000 posts in this thread.   

But the best news is that I picked up a 1993 1CH in almost new condition today.  What a delight.   :Smile: 

Thanks to all for the preceding info.....Lyle

----------


## Franc Homier Lieu

From the second newest member of the club to the first, welcome! I only made it about 25 pages in today, but I now feel like I have know fatt-dad my whole life.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Franc Homier Lieu

My 1983 1N has a crack! I am so _disappointed_! And then I find out that "The Flatiron" has no actual connection to "a steeply sloping triangular landform created by the differential erosion of a steeply dipping, erosion-resistant layer of rock overlying softer strata"! Of all the crass marketing schemes! I just assumed that based on the name....

Just kidding. No cracks (yet) though I have been playing the heck out of it in the last few days. I just wanted to bump this thread. There have been a few Flatiron pancakes in the classifieds lately, so there must be some new pancake owners, no?

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## noah finn

> =And then I find out that "The Flatiron" has no actual connection to "a steeply sloping triangular landform created by the differential erosion of a steeply dipping, erosion-resistant layer of rock overlying softer strata"! Of all the crass marketing schemes! I just assumed that based on the name....


 :Laughing:

----------


## Petrus

> And then I find out that "The Flatiron" has no actual connection to "a steeply sloping triangular landform created by the differential erosion of a steeply dipping, erosion-resistant layer of rock overlying softer strata"!


Wouldn't it be cool if the instruments had been made here:

----------


## Petrus

Wow, ten year old thread.  Actually I have been thinking about a Flatiron pancake style mando for a while now. I have it up high on my wish list, and if I find one I like and can afford I may end up getting one this year.  I'm trying to stick to a "one in, one out" philosophy, so I may make myself part with one of my current instruments.  Since I have a lot of vintage junque, it won't be hard and I won't be crying as it'll be a move up.  (The Trinity College OM is off the table though!)

----------


## Josh Levine

Still messing around with this Cadet I got off Guitar Center. 2 Questions:

1.Are the truss rods on these things easily adjustable? 

2.Is there a current consensus on a good small case for these things?

----------


## Josh Levine

Ok, So I like the tone of the Cadet, but the case is pretty crappy, the tuners kind of suck and there is a slight bow in the neck I figured it couldn't hurt to order the 1CH that was $100 bucks more considering is has nicer tuners and a more solid case. Hopefully it won't require any setup work, but I will update when it gets to my house.

----------


## fatt-dad

I would have responded to your earlier, but my pancake doesn't haveca truss rod and came with a case. On an unrelated note, TKL, Oilville, Virginia just fixed the drawbolt on my case!

f-d

----------


## Josh Levine

No worries, we will see how this 881CH compares to the 94 Cadet.

----------


## pheffernan

Any comparisons to share?

----------


## Josh Levine

Well, the action was even higher on the 1CH. Plus some of the binding was coming undone. So I returned it. For the extra 100 bucks I really was getting less of a value. Plus the mando had more wear. The case was just a standard A style case, so it sat in it funny. If I am not throwing the thing around the chipboard should be fine. I still have the cadet hanging around. I reckon it needs a proper setup. It is loud and the notes are crisp. I like the portability of it and it is fun to play. I did buy a 90s flatiron A5 though as my beater mandolin. It plays nice and I got a good enough deal that I can beat it up with no regrets. I will probably hang onto the cadet until I get bored with it, then move it along. I feel like it was a steal at $400. So I could easily move it for the same or a little more to cover my shipping costs for this experiment.

----------

pheffernan

----------


## LongBlackVeil

Someone might snag this from me but im gonna post it anyway just because i dont know much about these.

Im wanting to pick this one up.

Can anyone share their opinion about it?

https://reverb.com/item/195724-vinta...ck-sides-25405

----------


## fatt-dad

the finish checking doesn't bother me.  The crack sorta bothers me, but it may be stable and not affect sound - don't know.  I love the look and am also interestedin Koa. That said, I'm so drawn to my new snakehead right now, that's what I'm playing.  Oh don't get me wrong, my love affair with the 1N remains strong. Just not looking for another pancake.  I've always been curious about these koa pancakes though!

f-d

----------


## LongBlackVeil

> the finish checking doesn't bother me.  The crack sorta bothers me, but it may be stable and not affect sound - don't know.  I love the look and am also interestedin Koa. That said, I'm so drawn to my new snakehead right now, that's what I'm playing.  Oh don't get me wrong, my love affair with the 1N remains strong. Just not looking for another pancake.  I've always been curious about these koa pancakes though!
> 
> f-d


The crack looks like nicely repaired, a good crack repair can last just as long as solid wood. i think its in pretty decent condition. Im just not sure of what it will sound like. Ive never owned a pancake mandolin OR a Koa mandolin, so this would be unknown territory for me. That said if its still available in a couple of days im gonna try to grab it.

what do you think about the price?

EDIT:Well... Bad news, just got a private message from the seller 

"I'm sorry, It just sold last night. Wish i had another one for you. Jim DeStafney Owner, Blues angel Music"

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Ah, good to visit the "Compulsive" thread once again and enter into the record that I just recently acquired the '86 1CH that was recently in the Classifieds. And it is a beauty, plays easy, and sounds awesome! Maybe I can post a video soon.

----------


## LongBlackVeil

> Ah, good to visit the "Compulsive" thread once again and enter into the record that I just recently acquired the '86 1CH that was recently in the Classifieds. And it is a beauty, plays easy, and sounds awesome! Maybe I can post a video soon.


agh, i tried to snag that one too and got a similar message. "sold and shipped"

----------


## Nathan Sanders

> agh, i tried to snag that one too and got a similar message. "sold and shipped"


Stay tuned, it may come up for sale again down the road. But I do really like it.

----------


## pheffernan

> agh, i tried to snag that one too and got a similar message. "sold and shipped"


JWalterWeatherman mentioned elsewhere that he might move the Cadet that he discussed upthread.

----------


## LongBlackVeil

Flatiron 1CH spotting. This might be a spot no one thought to check, so i thought id share it with yall. 

http://www.musicfolk.com/docs/Instru...lery=Mandolins

worth a look if your looking for a pancake

----------


## Josh Levine

> Flatiron 1CH spotting. This might be a spot no one thought to check, so i thought id share it with yall. 
> 
> http://www.musicfolk.com/docs/Instru...lery=Mandolins
> 
> worth a look if your looking for a pancake


I've played that one when I was in STL a few months ago. Its a good one. 

I would let my Cadet go for $500 shipped and insured, but haven't listed it or committed to selling it. I like it and it is convenient for when you need an even smaller mandolin. I took it camping a couple weeks ago and had to backpack in a short distance, so it was nice having the pancake in that instance.

----------


## pheffernan

Who wants to join our ranks: http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/78572?

----------


## Nathan Sanders

The '86 Flatiron 1CH

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## BillG

Recently took my Fern in for some work and decided to break out my sweet little 3MC Flatiron.    
Wow, this baby is fun, especially with the GHS A-250s.  A belated thank you to f-d for that great tip!

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## eastman_315

> Who wants to join our ranks: http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/78572?


That would be me. :-)

I just traded for it & am expecting it to show up tomorrow (Wed. the 27th).

FYI - Its a 1SH instead of a 1N. I'm sure to post some pix when I get a chance.

Frank

----------


## fatt-dad

just to add - Nathan, we'd have a fun jam together. I love playing those tunes and all the others just like them!  Your pancake sounds great!  Looking forward to eastman_315's too!

f-d

----------

Nathan Sanders

----------


## eastman_315

> Looking forward to eastman_315's too!


Bummed! Didn't come today!

Oh well, there's always tomorrow!

Frank

----------


## eastman_315

Yes, finally its here!

Nice mando! Its a cute little thing!

I think I want to clean it up a bit & restring even before I tune it up. 

Question #1: I've got a set of J73s available. The recommended set is .010, .013, .024 & .036. The J73s (PB Lights) are .010, .014, .024 & .038. Any reason why I shouldn't start with the J73s? I'm going to get some others while they are on sale (15% off) at Elderlys anyway, but I'd rather not wait. :-)

Question #2: I've almost read all this thread but not quite. My 1SH came with what I believe to be an original fiberboard-type case, not the ultra 5-latch luxury version. ;-) I would like to get a better case. 

*** Anyone know where I can get a better case now in late 2014? ***

These are really cool mandos! Might be a keeper . . .

Frank

----------


## pheffernan

> Question #1: I've got a set of J73s available. The recommended set is .010, .013, .024 & .036. The J73s (PB Lights) are .010, .014, .024 & .038. Any reason why I shouldn't start with the J73s? I'm going to get some others while they are on sale (15% off) at Elderlys anyway, but I'd rather not wait. :-)


You shouldn't have a problem there. My impression is that Flatiron often installed J62's, although fatt-dad has pushed the GHS A250's before migrating to the Thomastik-Infeld Mittels.  :Smile: 




> Question #2: I've almost read all this thread but not quite. My 1SH came with what I believe to be an original fiberboard-type case, not the ultra 5-latch luxury version. ;-) I would like to get a better case.


I wouldn't know. Mine came with the ultra 5-latch luxury version.  :Wink:

----------


## eastman_315

> Mine came with the ultra 5-latch luxury version.


Lucky dog!

Gotta find me a case!

Frank

----------


## Josh Levine

I recently took my Cadet in for a proper set up. The action was pretty high and with the non-adjustable bridge I needed a luthier to help me do it proper. 

Also re:cases, I considered getting a nicer case, but actually kind of like the little clipboard case. It wouldn't expect it to provide too much protection, but it seems to get he job done. Actually took it backpacking with the little case and some plastic bags for water proofing and it held up fine.

----------


## eastman_315

Yeah, JWW, I might get mine setup fairly soon. As it is, the strings were really slackened for shipping & the bridge moved considerably. I'll try to get the intonation correct when I restring it, but if I can't get it close enough I'll take it in & get the work done. The PO said he had it setup recently, though, so I'm hoping it can wait.

I knew the case was going to be an issue but I really do want a better one. The OHSC that came with it is in good condition, though, so I have time. My '83 1SH is in very good condition & I just want to keep it that way! Really, though, I like nice cases as much as I like nice instruments! :-)

I see that there are some new army/nave type flat-tops being made like the Crystal Forest mandos, & I wonder where they are getting cases for them? Are they different size than the Flatirons?

Frank

----------


## pheffernan

> Are they different size than the Flatirons?


My Flatiron is noticeably more narrow than my other flattops. I bought a McClung pancake armrest for it but found it too big and thus ended up installing it on my Mid-Missouri instead. You might want to contact Steve Smith (Steevarino) at Redline Acoustics as he studied the Flatirons when developing his Traveler pancakes. Mine came with an Access gigbag, but he might have a lead for you: http://redlineresophonics.com/contact. You also might be interested in this thread: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...other-pancakes.

----------


## fatt-dad

anybody still have their ebony (?) nut or have we all gone to bone?

f-d

----------


## eastman_315

> anybody still have their ebony (?) nut or have we all gone to bone?


Still ebony on my '83 1SH.

Just got her cleaned up a bit & threw some J73s that I had lying around on. I'm digging the vintage vibe for sure! Got to let the new strings settle in a bit before I can comment on the tone, but first impressions tell me I'm going to be looking for something other than J73s. They just seem a bit bright/brash for my taste. I'm going to be placing a string order at Elderly while they still have a 15% off sale & I'm thinkin' GHS A-260s might be the next ones I try. Other suggestions welcome!

Frank

----------


## Josh Levine

I did some research on the cases when I first was looking into them, but the threads were pretty old. If you find something, be sure to update us on what it is. 

My nut is ebony or plastic? Its black thats for sure, I just assumed it was plastic, though. 

I agree that the sound can be a little on the bright side. I kind of appreciate that about it. It is loud, bright and full. Thats why I kept it around as it is quite different and unique in comparison to my quiver of A/F5s.

----------


## pheffernan

> anybody still have their ebony (?) nut or have we all gone to bone?


Ebony here. 




> I'm going to be placing a string order at Elderly while they still have a 15% off sale & I'm thinkin' GHS A-260s might be the next ones I try. Other suggestions welcome!


GHS A250
D'Addario J62
Thomastik-Infeld Mittels

----------

dgmcgee1952

----------


## eastman_315

Thanks pheffernan! GHS A-250s are what I want, not A-260s.

Take care,

Frank

----------


## eastman_315

First Pix!

 

 

Frank

----------

fatt-dad, 

Nathan Sanders

----------


## fatt-dad

excellent shape! Nice photos too!

f-d

----------


## eastman_315

Thanks f-d!

I don't think the "shaded" version looks much different than the "natural" one from the other pix I've seen. I like the coloring, though. Kinda reminds me of my old D-18.

Put the J-73s on and after a few days they sound pretty good! I'll put A-250s on next.

Glad I made the swap for this little gem!

Take care,

Frank

----------


## pheffernan

> I don't think the "shaded" version looks much different than the "natural" one from the other pix I've seen.


I had similar thoughts, and doing a little googling there seems to be a lot of variation in SH models from 1980...



...to 1993...



...with a similar 1982 in the middle:



Is it possible that the SH designation was sometimes used for a shaded back and sides rather than top?

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Great looking 1SH Eastman! Congrats! I typically use D'Addario J62 strings on my 1N. I have not changed the strings on the 1CH yet but will probably use the same.

----------


## eastman_315

Thanks guys!

Yeah, pheffernan, I wondered if it might mean a shaded back & sides, too. Mine does have that "aging toner" look to it.

Nathan, the J-73s I've got on there now have settled down some & the mando is sounding/playing pretty well. I have some A-250s coming but it might be a while before I even put them on. I'll definitely try some J-62s sometime, though.

I checked out the case thread mentioned earlier & it looks like I might have to just keep looking & trying out after-market cases 'till I find something close & maybe modify it a bit. We'll see. Seems to be a bit of a moving target.

Take care,

Frank

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Eastman, the j73 are a great set too. As for cases, I would have to go back and read the thread, so some of this may have been mentioned. Back in the day when Flatiron was still around, I bought a hard shell Harptone case for mine. Some of the other pancakes I have had in my hands had the original hard shell case as well. This 1CH I recently got came in a hard shell case, but it is not one of the original type of hard shell cases. Nor is it just a plain A-style case (I think). I am not sure, but maybe it was a case made for Mid-Missouri/Big Muddy mandolins? It fits well. I had a Redline Traveler for a short time and bought a Breedlove case for it. It worked pretty well. Hope this helps.

----------


## eastman_315

I'll figure out a case eventually. I intend to keep this mando so I figure I can take some time to find a decent case for it. I have a Breedlove case that I got with my KO but it looks like it'd need some serious additional padding to work well. Might be a little over-kill, too.

This one for a tenor uke might work but I'd want to try it out first:

http://elderly.com/accessories/items/RBCONT-TENUKE.htm 

Also, $150+ is a little steep. I guess if it fit well, though . . .

Anyway, I'm sure havin' fun with it!

Take care,

Frank

----------


## fatt-dad

over the weekend. . .



f-d

----------


## Jim Garber

> over the weekend. . .


I guess the green light was on for you, F-D!

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Franc Homier Lieu

> over the weekend. . .
> 
> 
> 
> f-d


I've see a couple of photos of your 1N with a Wegen in the strings. I have gone around and around with picks for my 1N, and keep coming back to my Wegen TF140s. Just got a couple from Strings and Beyond (they had a great sale on). Love the feel of the Wegen, and the tone is really nice. Mellower than the Primetone Sculpted, though I do like those too. I just find that I don't need a really heavy, rigid pick to pull a really nice tone out of the 1N. Now that my 1N is the only mandolin in my house, my BC's (and RedBears, and insert really long list of expensive picks here) just sit in the pick box. I might have to go out and buy a carved top mandolin just so my boutique picks don't go to waste.

----------


## fatt-dad

it seems a good match between the 1N, the A-250s and the Wegan.

I do love the CT55 Blue Chip though. . .

f-d

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Great picture Fatt! It's about time for a few new pics of my pancakes. Thanks!

----------


## pheffernan

> I've see a couple of photos of your 1N with a Wegen in the strings. I have gone around and around with picks for my 1N, and keep coming back to my Wegen TF140s. Just got a couple from Strings and Beyond (they had a great sale on). Love the feel of the Wegen, and the tone is really nice. Mellower than the Primetone Sculpted, though I do like those too. I just find that I don't need a really heavy, rigid pick to pull a really nice tone out of the 1N.


I had the same observation. While I love the Wegen TF140 -- it's my most comfortable pick to play, over a Blue Chip CT55, a Red Bear Big Picker Heavy, and even a tortoise -- I prefer its heft on a carved instrument fitted with medium strings. For my flattops strung with medium lights, I often find myself reaching (don't laugh) for a Yamaha medium triangle that came in the case with my 1N. As I find the Wegen so comfortable, I've toyed with the idea of getting the lighter TF120 or even the TF100 to try on my flattops. I just haven't placed the order yet.

----------


## Josh Levine

Oddly enough I prefer the Wegen 120 for my cadet. For my F5s I switch between a 140 and CT55... This thread reminds me I need to call my luthier to get my cadet back.

----------


## pheffernan

A fairly priced offering just hit the classifieds: http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/80680.

----------


## pheffernan

A cheaper alternative has surfaced on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321577346835.

----------


## pheffernan

A far more expensive option for the discerning pancake enthusiast: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-Custom-...item3f4053ce8b

----------


## fatt-dad

That '81 Custom's a trip!

f-d

----------


## Rob Zamites

Well, just spent 3 days reading this whole thread. If I can sell my three instruments in the classifieds, I'm almost certainly on the hunt for a Flatiron....

----------


## pheffernan

$430 + $4.61 shipping: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321577346835

----------


## mrmando

> That '81 Custom's a trip!
> 
> f-d


Ooh, it's local! An oval-hole, snakehead pancake, wow. 

Really, though, he'd do well to get 20% of what he's asking. I wonder what the auction price was.

----------


## Eric F.

Yes, that's some optimistic pricing there.

----------


## twist_of_nate

Hi, gang. I have a question regarding a Flatiron 1-N that's for sale at a shop in Nashville and this seems like the thread in which to ask it.

The shop has a lefty (!!) with a bridge pickup and the original case for $800. Now, I've done some digging around here on the various Flatiron threads and it seems to me this may be a useless question without knowing the serial number and other such details...but does that seem reasonable to the more knowledgeable of you on here?

And if it IS impossible to say without more background on it, well, that will help too because I'll know what to ask.

Thank you for your time.

----------


## atbuckner21

I just got the TAD 60 with a round bevel, and fell in love with it instantly. I had been trying out Pro Plecs, Primetones (both shapes), Wegens (Round and TF140) and the CT55, but just lost it when I started using this TAD 60 with a round bevel.  :Smile: 



> it seems a good match between the 1N, the A-250s and the Wegan.
> 
> I do love the CT55 Blue Chip though. . .
> 
> f-d

----------


## pheffernan

> The shop has a lefty (!!) with a bridge pickup and the original case for $800. Now, I've done some digging around here on the various Flatiron threads and it seems to me this may be a useless question without knowing the serial number and other such details...but does that seem reasonable to the more knowledgeable of you on here?


I've seen that one -- it has been listed for some time -- and I think that you're paying a premium because it's lefty: http://theparlorknoxville.com/mandol...iron-1-n-lefty. But then there's a righty that's posted on my local craigslist with a pickup for $700: http://sarasota.craigslist.org/msg/4747224159.html. I think of a 1N as a $400-600 flattop and my favorite in that price range. I just put a fresh set of GHS A250's on mine last evening and played it at lunch two hours ago!

----------


## LongBlackVeil

> I've seen that one -- it has been listed for some time -- and I think that you're paying a premium because it's lefty: http://theparlorknoxville.com/mandol...iron-1-n-lefty. But then there's a righty that's posted on my local craigslist with a pickup for $700: http://sarasota.craigslist.org/msg/4747224159.html. I think of a 1N as a $400-600 flattop and my favorite in that price range. I just put a fresh set of GHS A250's on mine last evening and played it at lunch two hours ago!


ive seen this one too, and i wondered, is it really a lefty? or has it just been restrung to accommodate a lefty. Also, if it were a true lefty, wouldnt the logo be backwards? 

but really, does it matter? 

Ive heard some say that an instrument that is built righty, may sound different strung left handed because of the tensions being different on both sides. BUT ive also heard builders say that there is no left or right side of an instrument, the body works as one.

----------


## old_swede

Hi, thanks to everyone for a great thread, going for more than 10 years.  I came across this because my grandchildren started messing around with an old Flatiron that I have, and I wanted to find out more about the instrument.  I bought it in Salt Lake City in 1979 or 1980.  According to the label it's a Model 1 (not 1N), with serial no. 7904002.  I'm thinking this means it was the second instrument made in April 1979, am I correct?

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Mark Wilson

NFD!!!

Thanks to fatt-dad and everyone that contributed to this thread.  Musta read it twice while shopping for a flattop.

Just got this 2M today. Looks like an '88 by the serial#.  In really nice shape - almost perfect save some hairline finish cracks on the top extending from the fret board. Neck must have flexed at some point.  Action is nice and everything looks fine to me.

Put on some A260's (what I had on hand - tuned 1/2 step down) today and played for an hour or so.  I'm excited with the sound of it. Clean, clear, balanced. Warm but pleasingly bright. Plays easy. Just a pretty tone with the extra sustain. It's gonna be fun getting acquainted.  I think it's loud enough to take to a jam.  So yeah...
I'm stoked.  :Mandosmiley:

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## fatt-dad

to Old-Swede, it's certainly from '79. Don't you just love the simplicity of the pancake?

to Mark,  Beautiful mandolin!  I'm sure you know my preference for the GHS A-250s.  Give them a try at full pitch.

f-d

----------


## Mark Wilson

There's a couple packs on the way fatt-dad.  Thanks again for all the info and for the heads up on these flatiron pancakes.

----------


## Eric F.

> NFD!!!
> 
> Thanks to fatt-dad and everyone that contributed to this thread.  Musta read it twice while shopping for a flattop.
> 
> Just got this 2M today. Looks like an '88 by the serial#.  In really nice shape - almost perfect save some hairline finish cracks on the top extending from the fret board. Neck must have flexed at some point.  Action is nice and everything looks fine to me.
> 
> Put on some A260's (what I had on hand - tuned 1/2 step down) today and played for an hour or so.  I'm excited with the sound of it. Clean, clear, balanced. Warm but pleasingly bright. Plays easy. Just a pretty tone with the extra sustain. It's gonna be fun getting acquainted.  I think it's loud enough to take to a jam.  So yeah...
> I'm stoked.


That back looks identical to my '86 2M. Enjoy!

----------


## Jim Garber

> I woke up from a nap this afternoon, searched ebay and did a Buy-It-Now on a 1994 Flatiron 1N with hardcase.
> About 10 minutes later when I fully woke up I realized what I had done, it dawned on me that I really don't know much about them. This MAS thing is killing me. I am doing it in my sleep now.
> So,,, since I now own one can anyone tell me anything about them? 
> Please, please, say that I didn't make a bad mistake.
> No,,,,, just tell me the truth. I can take it.


I love these long "historical" threads like this one. I had to look at the original post tho to realize why it was titled as it is. Funny.

----------


## Bruce Clausen

Yeah, that is funny.  We haven't heard from atetone here in quite a while.  He told me once he had mandolins stuffed in the rafters at home.  Unlike Bob A, who said he was tripping over mandolins as he walked around the house.  You must have your own storage solution, Jim.

----------


## Jim Garber

I must have a solution... you are right! I think I may just rent a dumpster and start really clearing things out. :-)

I remember when the Flatiron pancakes first came out. They were way ahead of their time. I am not so sure that there were many Asian imports then. There were also many fewer mandolin players than now.

----------


## Travis Wilson

As some of you may know (recent thread on the eBay sub-forum), I have recently come into possession of an '84 MW.  It's a superb little mandolin.  It's so cool, I find my guitar-playing son picking it all the time these days.

To the point, I purchased this little axe for travel purposes, but the chipboard case is not satisfactory.  I have explored some of the case and gigbag suggestions discussed on this thread, but many are no longer viable.  So, what is the modern consensus for a good case or gigbag for this little pancake?

----------


## bsnider

Dear Pancophiles,
I'm looking at a Flatiron 3K to buy, but I'm concerned about a slight distortion in the top (less than 1/16" longitudinally, flat from side to side). I just posted in the Builders and Repair forum, but I thought I'd check with other pancake owners. Does your instrument have a bit of a sag? If so, has it remained stable over time? How much would be enough to warn you away from buying an instrument or lessen its value?

Thanks!
Bruce

----------


## fatt-dad

I guess we'd need a photo.  Problem with the pancake is has very specific string gauge requirements.  If the prior owners used the time-honored J-74s, they had too much string and the top or neck angle may be affected.

So, you got a photo of the irregular area?

f-d

----------


## bsnider

Here you go. It's a pretty subtle dip, but you can see about 1/16" of air under that straight edge. The top seems to have retained its slight side-to-side arch under the bridge. How does that look to you?

Thanks,
Bruce

----------


## eastman_315

> . . . I have recently come into possession of an '84 MW.


Congrats on the MW! I really do enjoy my 1SH!


> To the point, I purchased this little axe for travel purposes, but the chipboard case is not satisfactory. <Snip> So, what is the modern consensus for a good case or gigbag for this little pancake?


Mine came with the original chipboard case, too. I really never found a case that really fits the Flatiron, but eventually contacted Steve at Cumberland Acoustics to see what they ship with their Redline Traveller, a modern version of the Flatirons. He offered to sell me one of his cases so I bought it. As it turns out, the case he uses is a Guardian model made for the A-Style mando. 

I think the tag that was in the case labelled it as a CG-020-MA but I must have thrown the tag away.

As you can see, the Flatiron does fit, just not that well.

There is a lot of room over the headstock. I guess you could put a strap there.

The body is also smaller than the case requiring additional padding for a reasonable fit.

I trimmed a piece of bubble-wrap that had the big bubbles to lay under the mando and raise it up so the neck rested evenly over the storage compartment. I also used a large, rolled-up microfiber cloth at the bottom to keep the mando snug & secure from moving around in the case.

Overall, this case does offer more protection than the original fiberboard one. It also looks better, too. :-) I suppose at some point I can try to create some sort of padding that looks a little better, but it is still pretty much of a compromise for a Flatiron mando.

Anyway, I'm still on the lookout for a case that really fits my Flatiron!

Take care,

Frank

----------

Travis Wilson

----------


## Nathan Sanders

I think I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I had a Redline Traveler for a short time. I bought a Breedlove mandolin case for it, which fit very well. I believe it had a couple of small pillows included to help the fit, but overall I liked it a lot. Most of the Flatiron pancakes which have come through my hands have had the original hardshell case. I bought a Harptone hardshell for my original 1N back in the day when Harptone was still around and they made a case specifically for the army-navy style.

----------


## fatt-dad

I'd proudly use the original chipboard case.

f-d

----------


## eastman_315

> I'd proudly use the original chipboard case.
> 
> f-d


Spoken like a man who owns the super 5-latch version! :-)

I'm keeping my "vintage" chipboard case in a vault to maintain its value . . .

Later,

Frank

----------


## Mark Wilson

1N ebay auction alert: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flatiron-1N-...ht_2251wt_1362

I've noticed 'the flatiron' headstock decal in black or white.  Was this a year or model change?

----------


## pheffernan

> I've noticed 'the flatiron' headstock decal in black or white.  Was this a year or model change?


That '85 looks just like my '84, which yesterday received its first set of Thomastik-Infeld Mittels. It is an odd experience to spend 10% of the cost of an instrument on one pair of its strings.  :Confused:

----------


## eastman_315

> I've noticed 'the flatiron' headstock decal in black or white.  Was this a year or model change?


Not certain but I think it has more to do with the model than the year. The basic models I've seen have the black name & the higher grade mandos have the white.

Of course, I could be wrong.  :Grin: 

Frank

----------

Mark Wilson

----------


## Mark Wilson

> That '85 looks just like my '84, which yesterday received its first set of Thomastik-Infeld Mittels.


Interesting.  Post a review.  Hopefully they last a long while

----------


## BlueMountain



----------


## BlueMountain

I bought the 1981 blond about six years ago on eBay for $100. The brace below the sound hole had come unglued and the top had cracked and sunken about a half inch. It also had a lot of stress cracks in the finish. I bought the chocolate 1986 a few weeks ago here for $150 plus shipping. It had some cracks that had been repaired and cleated and four cracks that ran the length of the top that were open. I repaired all of these with glue and cleats, but the cracks happened because the top shrank,mand it didn't come together with a clamp, so I glued it open, as the braces are solid. It has a 1/16" glued crack now, but it's all very solid. At first the chocolate sounded thin, but now they sound identical. I've shimmed both with ebony. I use flat wound strings from Ted Eschliman's JazzMando site. Excellent strings from La Bella. (I play jazz/swing.) The action at the 12th fret is now 4/64" (that's 1/16") for both mandolins, without buzzing. Outstanding. The tone is warm, very loud and direct, not as nuanced as my Collings, but with that slightly dead sound I want from flat wound strings.

I've used the blond for years for traveling. The cardboard case slides right in beside my suitcase in the overhead compartment, unlike a regular mandolin's case, and doesn't interfere with other people putting in suitcases. I don't use a strap because this mandolin is so light and easy to cradle in my arms while playing. It interests me that the nuts on these are rosewood. I don't think you can find a better travel mandolin than one of these pancakes. Even though repaired, these are great mandolins.

----------


## BlueMountain



----------


## BlueMountain



----------


## Nathan Sanders

Look what I picked up last week

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Oh, I should mention the above posted set of Flatiron Octave Mandolin strings were in the case pocket of my latest BIG PANCAKE, a 1995 3MC.

----------


## Jim Garber

[QUOTE=Nathan Sanders;1394113]Oh, I should mention the above posted set of Flatiron Octave Mandolin strings were in the case pocket of my latest BIG PANCAKE, a 1995 3MC.[QUOTE]
Yes, but was it a compulsive purchase?

----------


## Nathan Sanders

[QUOTE=Jim Garber;1394178][QUOTE=Nathan Sanders;1394113]Oh, I should mention the above posted set of Flatiron Octave Mandolin strings were in the case pocket of my latest BIG PANCAKE, a 1995 3MC.


> Yes, but was it a compulsive purchase?


Actually Jim it kind of was a compulsive purchase. An opportunity presented itself. You might call it SOMAS....SUDDEN ONSET MANDOLIN ACQUISITION SYNDROME.  :Grin:

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Maybe it should be called PMAS, Pancake Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome? Whatever the case, here's what I picked up this week, a 1996 Flatiron 3MC mandolin, a good match for my Flatiron OM. Keep an eye on the Classifieds, though, as I may be listing it, unless a matching mandola comes along. Ha!

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Already posted this in the Post a Video thread, but thought it should be included in the record here too. This is the Flatiron 3MC pictured above. I had a local luthier make an original style bridge to replace the pickup bridge which came with it.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

And here is the Flatiron 3MC Octave Mandolin (Bouzouki) I recently acquired.

----------

Dave Hanson, 

Randolph

----------


## Josh Levine

Wow, sounds great. The pickin ain't bad either.

----------

Nathan Sanders

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Nice job!

----------

Nathan Sanders

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

> Congrats on the MW! I really do enjoy my 1SH!Mine came with the original chipboard case, too. I really never found a case that really fits the Flatiron, but eventually contacted Steve at Cumberland Acoustics to see what they ship with their Redline Traveller, a modern version of the Flatirons. He offered to sell me one of his cases so I bought it. As it turns out, the case he uses is a Guardian model made for the A-Style mando. 
> 
> I think the tag that was in the case labelled it as a CG-020-MA but I must have thrown the tag away.
> 
> As you can see, the Flatiron does fit, just not that well.
> 
> There is a lot of room over the headstock. I guess you could put a strap there.
> 
> The body is also smaller than the case requiring additional padding for a reasonable fit.
> ...


I had the finish on a Gibson J-45 react from being in contact with bubble wrap. Since then, I keep it away from my instruments.

----------


## Dave Hanson

Love it.

Dave H

----------


## eastman_315

> I had the finish on a Gibson J-45 react from being in contact with bubble wrap. Since then, I keep it away from my instruments.


Thanks pickinNgrinnin,

Great to know! I haven't seen anything like that happening yet, but I'll keep checking. At least I can cover it with some cloth or something.

I really wish there was an aftermarket case for these wonderful little mandos!

Take care,

Frank

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Rosin the Beau on the Flatiron Bouzouki

----------


## Cobalt

For the sake of completeness I might add the model number of mine. I don't see the Flatiron 1DC mentioned anywhere else on this entire site (apart from one of my own earlier posts).
Model No. _1DC MANDOLIN_
(The word 'mandolin' appears as part of the model number).

It is a 1994 version with a matte (non-glossy) dark chocolate finish and adjustable truss-rod. I've had it since new, with matching hard shell case. The instrument has travelled around quite a lot with me, it's still one of my favourites, very playable and nice tone.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Josh Levine

Someone needs to buy this 2k before I do. Great price. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Fla...2k-Mandolin.gc

- - - Updated - - -

Well is was priced at $440 on sale but moved up in price now.

----------


## harper

I became the lucky owner of a Flatiron 1N this Christmas. It has light GHS strings on it.  I experimented with several picks and found that the V-pick called Chicken Picker draws out the sweetest, clearest, bell-like sound. Thinner picks produce a thinner sound on it. This one is on my do-not-sell list and is now my go-to mandolin for everyday playing.

----------


## fatt-dad

Happy New Year Pancake fans!

f-d

----------


## harper

Dear Flatiron Fans,

I bought the Flatiron 2K referenced in the link to Guitar Center in JWalterWaethermans's post. Details: built in 1983, koa back and sides, ebony nut and bridge, spruce top, no truss rod. Some minor dings, but almost no finish checking. The construction is very solid with no cracks, evidence of repairs, or seam separations.

I spend yesterday morning cleaning it and putting on new strings. Three of the tuners were frozen.  I took them apart and cleaned them with advice from Graham MacDonald. Reassembling was tricky, lining up the cog, worm gear and stem of the tuning post. I had to turn one cog 14 different ways before the unit would fall into place. I put a smalldrop of Teflon bicycle chain lubricant on the brackets that hold each worm gear.  They moved well enough unstrung, but now that they are under load two of them are very hard to turn. The one 1 turned 14 different ways works fine. I used Savarez 1540X strings, which are fairly light.

Also, the one piece bridge is too high, making the action too high.  The fret board is perfectly level.

The instrument is loud and resonant, and for sure a keeper, but I need to do something about the tuners and bridge.

If anyone has any advice on next steps, I would welcome it. I'm learning as I go.

----------


## Bill Kammerzell

> I woke up from a nap this afternoon, searched ebay and did a Buy-It-Now on a 1994 Flatiron 1N with hardcase.
> About 10 minutes later when I fully woke up I realized what I had done, it dawned on me that I really don't know much about them. This MAS thing is killing me. I am doing it in my sleep now.
> So,,, since I now own one can anyone tell me anything about them? 
> Please, please, say that I didn't make a bad mistake.
> No,,,,, just tell me the truth. I can take it.


Although I do the research, I don't think I've ever bought a mandolin that wasn't a compulsive purchase. Seeing how over the last Five (5) months I've either bought sold (or am in the process of selling) Ten (10) different mandolins. That's 3.33 times the number of mandolins I owned in the 64 years preceding.  :Wink: . Funny thing, as of yet, it hasn't bothered my wife one bit. She even told me how "pretty" the Eastman MD504 is.  :Smile:

----------


## Nathan Sanders

In keeping with the historical nature of this thread, here are two recent acquisitions, a 1995 Flatiron 2MC and a 1996 Gibson AN.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## JeffD

I had a 1984 3MW mandola. I got it soon after my first mandolin destroyed itself in a hot car. Getting the Flatiron was the first time I spent what to me was a chunk of change to get a nice musical instrument. I ordered it from Elderly back a long time ago. I recently sold it to someone who is playing the potatoes out of it.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Cool JeffD. Out of all the Flatirons I've had, I never have had a mandola. I wish I could have bought yours. If your friend ever decides to sell it, let me know.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Here's a recent picture of my pancake arsenal. Pictured are Flatiron 2MC, 1N, Bouzouki, and a Gibson AN. I guess this was sort of a farewell gathering because I just sold the 2MC earlier this week. 


(Sorry the picture is sideways. The original is not that way. For some reason it posted this way.)

----------


## soliver

Old thread, but I'm joining the fray... new 1N owner here. I've been enjoying it thus far. Looking to get some new strings for it and maybe a Wegen TF140.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the GHS Strings and the D'addario's?

----------


## Chris Daniels

> Can anyone tell me the difference between the GHS Strings and the D'addario's?


I perhaps neglected posting to this thread when I got my 1N but if so this should remedy the oversight.

Anyway, I'm a loyal D'Addario player for everything stringed from way back but the GHS A250 set is the closest to the recommended gauges printed on the Flatiron's neck block so I made an exception. They're really sweet strings and to date I've found no reason to switch to EJ73/EJ62, etc. The GHS are nice and balanced on the 1N with good tone + volume across all 4 courses.

~://:~ C.

----------


## fatt-dad

Yeah, I'm like Chris.  The A250s are perfect gauge for the sticker.  So, I just use them.

f-d

----------


## Br1ck

I should have bought the last one I played. Very sweet tone for all but bluegrass.

----------


## fatt-dad

yeah, I bring my pancake to a bluegrass jam and surprise people. It can be heard!  It looks nothing like a mandolin should look.  It's fine for such jams though.  I'd never say, "Not for bluegrass!" but for the look. . .

f-d

----------


## pheffernan

> Can anyone tell me the difference between the GHS Strings and the D'addario's?


.010 / .015 / .024 / .036 vs. .010 / .014 / .024 / .034

----------


## Jim Garber

Ah, nice to see this, one of the grandfathers of Cafe threads. Also it is nice again to see all those compulsive purchasers of Flatiron 1N mandolins. A little nostalgia for the old folks.  :Smile:

----------

Eric F.

----------


## Br1ck

Don't we have a fondness for Zombies? Ah, the classics.

When it comes to Flatiron pancakes, is there a pecking order that denotes fancier appointments? The use of both numbers and letters confounds me. Primer please.

----------


## Eric F.

> Don't we have a fondness for Zombies? Ah, the classics.
> 
> When it comes to Flatiron pancakes, is there a pecking order that denotes fancier appointments? The use of both numbers and letters confounds me. Primer please.


Higher number = fancier. Letter = type of wood. 

1N = Unfigured maple back.
2M Flame or birsdseye maple back.
3M Rosette, flame or birdseye maple back

2K = Flame koa back
3K = Rosette, flame koa back

I once owned a 2MW. Mary Weber told me it meant "western maple."

----------


## fatt-dad

> Don't we have a fondness for Zombies? Ah, the classics.
> 
> <snip>


Just a friendly issue about, "Zombie."  There is something about this thread that is basically unique.  It's had bouts of activity on a fairly regular basis for the last 13 years!  You can check, but to my knowledge all you'd ever want to know about Flatiron, "Army-Navy" mandolin-family instruments are found herein.  Fun stories throughout the years.

I think of a zombie thread as something that's popped up after years of abandonment.

That is not this thread.

(I'm being a pedant and mean no ill will.)

Kind regards!

f-d

----------


## Jim Garber

I agree with F-D (one of the protagonists of this epic thread) that this is should go down in the archives as one of the classic threads. It is much more cuddly than any "zombie". Reminds me of my early days (pre-Internet) in mandolin-land.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## fatt-dad

This and the haiku, which has been idle for a spell, but. . .  That's a long-lasting thread too!

f-d

----------


## artguy

> This and the haiku, which has been idle for a spell, but. . .  That's a long-lasting thread too!
> 
> f-d


And the thread stays alive!

I received my NTM Flatiron 1N today and its a beauty! Its an 83 and seems like the original strings were still on it (bleccch) No dings or divots or scratches. Just a couple of finish glaze lines when you hold it a certain angle. For 35 years old it looks and plays amazing!

Ive never seen one before with the flatiron just burnished into the back of the headstock. Im assuming this has to be an early one. No truss rod. Wood nut. 

Looking forward to playing the heck out of it!!

Kurt

----------


## Eric F.

Looks sweet. Congrats! Enjoy it. As fatt-dad often says, that can be a friend for life.

----------


## Jim Garber

The pancake Flatirons started earlier than 1983, I believe as early as 1977. My carved A5-2 was made in ‘83 and was one of the first of those. Not sure when the embossing would have happened, but maybe yours is early and not ‘83?

----------


## fatt-dad

looks great!  Try the GHS A-250s for strings.  Their gauges are a perfect match to the spec.  (Don't try j74s!)

Enjoy!

f-d

----------


## Zach Wilson

NMD!! Congrats and happy pickin 🤓

----------


## MikeyG

> The pancake Flatirons started earlier than 1983, I believe as early as 1977. Not sure when the embossing would have happened, but maybe yours is early and not 83?


Jim's right (as usual). I have a Flatiron 2 that I believe was built in 1979.  The serial number is 7905019.  here's a photo of the label:

I think the first two digits '79' indicates the year of manufacture 1979, the next pair '05' refers to the month May, and the final three 019 means this was the nineteenth Flatiron of that month or possibly year.  If anyone knows this to be incorrect, please let us know.

MikeyG

----------


## fatt-dad

Well, this fellow says the first Flatiron mandolins were made in Boulder - mid-'70s.

http://guitars.morrisonprairie.com/Boulder.html

f-d

----------


## Jim Garber

> Well, this fellow says the first Flatiron mandolins were made in Boulder - mid-'70s.
> 
> http://guitars.morrisonprairie.com/Boulder.html
> 
> f-d


Thanks, F-D! I never heard of Charles Morrison and did not know that he was the originator of the Flatiron mandolin. I knew of them later when Mandolin Brothers first carried them in NY.

----------


## multidon

Just out of curiosity, does this thread set some kind of record for the longest lasting thread, the most replies, or the most views? If not, what thread beats itin those categories?

----------


## pops1

> Just out of curiosity, does this thread set some kind of record for the longest lasting thread, the most replies, or the most views? If not, what thread beats itin those categories?


I know it won't make the longest lasting, but maybe the most replies and views, is the thread about Blue Chip picks.

----------


## jefflester

> Just out of curiosity, does this thread set some kind of record for the longest lasting thread, the most replies, or the most views? If not, what thread beats itin those categories?


Dunno about oldest in terms of time, but in terms of replies and views I think this is the winner:
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...ns-in-progress
Replies: 8,248
Views: 1,836,562
330 pages
(as of 1/17/2018 3:30 PM West Coast)

----------


## NJBENNY

<Removed by Moderator. Please limit commerce to the Classifieds. Please take some time to read the posting guidelines.>

----------


## fatt-dad

today, I say farewell to my 1N. . .

Baby girl is getting married tomorrow and tonight at the rehearsal dinner the pancake will be bestowed to the future son-in-law.

I'm sure it'll show up at the beach.  I'm certain he'll use the A250's included in the deal.  Heck, he's getting a TF140 too!

I already know he likes it!  He has already had his fingers on it on prior beach trips.

Not bitter sweet at all!  I'm really tickled.

Vicariously, through this thread and knowing its whereabouts, I'll always be a pancake fan.  Thankfully, I have other mandolins and a compulsion to look at the classifieds!

In the words of a famous statesman, "I'll be back!"

f-d

----------

Jill McAuley, 

MikeEdgerton, 

pheffernan

----------


## Jim Garber

Just think, F-D: even if you no longer have your Flatiron, you will always be an compulsively integral part of the compulsive legacy of this compulsive thread.

----------

MikeEdgerton

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . And he liked it! along with my Dad's slide rule tie clasp. Yeah, how often do you see those?

f-d

----------


## MikeEdgerton

> Just think, F-D: even if you no longer have your Flatiron, you will always be an compulsively integral part of the compulsive legacy of this compulsive thread.


Are you sure? You might just think that's true.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Oh wow, fatt-dad, at least the pancake is still in the family. I bet you get another sometime though. Maybe I will even sell you one sometime, as I still buy and sell them now and then. Congrats!

----------


## JeffD

> Just out of curiosity, does this thread set some kind of record for the longest lasting thread, the most replies, or the most views? If not, what thread beats itin those categories?


Not even close. Women with Mandolins, Post a video of yoursel, post a picture of yourself, show us your instrument, they all have more replies.

And Women with Mandolins, no surprise, has almost a million views. Mandolins in Progress has almost twice that.

----------


## MoreThanQuinn

What is the going rate for a flatiron 1n these days?

----------


## Chris Daniels

> What is the going rate for a flatiron 1n these days?


$400 to $700

C.

----------


## fatt-dad

> Oh wow, fatt-dad, at least the pancake is still in the family. I bet you get another sometime though. Maybe I will even sell you one sometime, as I still buy and sell them now and then. Congrats!


hit me up!  I do prefer the 5-latch cases though and they are sort of hard to find!

f-d

----------


## pheffernan

> What is the going rate for a flatiron 1n these days?


Per the classifieds, the current rate is $500: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/121167#121167

----------


## fatt-dad

Don't get the bridge and tailpiece modifications when it remains with the ebony nut!

I did change to bone nut on my 1N.  Prefer the simpler cloud and fixed bridge; however.

f-d

----------


## pheffernan

> Don't get the bridge and tailpiece modifications when it remains with the ebony nut!


He has retained and offered the originals . . .

----------


## pheffernan

> Don't get the bridge and tailpiece modifications when it remains with the ebony nut!


He has retained and offered the originals . . .

----------


## vetus scotia

This is very interesting, and very, very tempting....

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/126533#126533

----------


## fatt-dad

Mary is killin' me!  I want the Koa!

f-d

----------


## vetus scotia

Indeed. At least I am not at all tempted by the two Fender mandolins on offer from Montana Lutherie. But that hardly makes up for the temptation of those pancakes (though, also not a fan of the pancake with pickguard look, so that one is safe).

Has she been selling these things all along? Were old pancakes ever for sale from the Weber website?

----------


## fatt-dad

It's like deja vu all over again. . .

Here it is!  Back from an MOP inlay to remove the strap button and setup, the 1N to replace my other 1N.  This one's an '83, so one year older.  Much less wear too!  Plays/sounds great!  Just love it all over again!  Even with the original gold 5-latch case!





f-d

----------


## Jim Garber

Congratulations, F-D on your new addition. 1N+1N=2N, yes? And I sincerely I hope it was a compulsive purchase.  :Smile:

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## fatt-dad

> Congratulations, F-D on your new addition. 1N+1N=2N, yes? And I sincerely I hope it was a compulsive purchase.


(it was)

f-d

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

F-D w/o a Pancake is just wrong on many levels. Glad to see this thread still up and moving!

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Jim Garber

Yes! I compulsively read this venerable thread.

----------


## Eric Platt

So, I'm now officially in. Just picked up an '83 1N from Willie's American Guitars in St. Paul, MN. Guess it doesn't help to have a great shop between work and home.<G>  Somewhat of an impulse purchase. Didn't need another mandolin. But after picking it up and starting in on Sakkijarven Polkka my wife knew it was only a matter of when, not if, I was buying it. She loves the volume and tone. And a nice contrast to my vintage Gibson A's.

A side note - the label on this one states it's by Backporch Productions. Noticed a few pages earlier that a slightly later '83 1N doesn't have that on the label. So we can see where the transition period is.

Came with the chipboard case. But will probably use an Eastman gigbag most of the time. Of course, it'll mainly sit out on a stand at home. The neck shape just seems to be calling to me to play it.

----------

fatt-dad, 

Jean Andreasen

----------


## soliver

You guys are making me wish I didn't sell mine.

----------

Eric Platt

----------


## Eric Platt

> You guys are making me wish I didn't sell mine.


Don't get too hung up on it. You ended up moving it to get a better instrument. Nothing wrong with that. It's not like these are really rare and expensive. That's part of the fun. Like the Strad-O-Lin. Funky and different and something that can go to the beach, a jam, or even a gig.

Plus, I just got mine yesterday, so have to talk it up. Still in the honeymoon phase.

----------


## Khatarlan

Wow!  I didn't know these things had such a following, much less risen in value like that.  

I bought my Flatiron 2MC from GC back in '96?  for $275 ish.  Looks like its a post-Gibson, pre-Nashville version.... stamped with 'the Flatiron' on the headstock, and sticker says made in Belgrade, MT.  But the tailpiece cover is all Gibson (except not engraved).  Started playing mando, then marriage/house/life happened and I didn't come back to playing until I found my Flatiron sitting forlornly in the corner about three years ago.  It is a great little screamer - but it may be screaming from the D'Addario strings.  I'll have to try the GHS A250s instead.

After reading this thread, treated it to a sturdier TKL case instead of the original chipboard. :D

K'hat

----------


## Br1ck

One of those 1 Ns was the first flat top mandolin I played. Should have bought it for $500. Makes the second tier of should have bought it regrets.

----------


## Dan Adams

I also read this thread on a regular basis.  My 1983 2MB continues to be the mandolin that is always within reach, travels around the country, and in different areas of the world.  It has busked in New Orleans, Budapest, Vienna, Galway, Aruba, Jamaica, Boulder, etc..

----------


## fatt-dad

they go anywhere!



(last month in Frisco, NC)

During this time of the year, my 1N is always entertaining the neighborhood too!  I just walk about the yard playing random fiddle tunes!

f-d

----------


## soliver

> Wow!  I didn't know these things had such a following, much less risen in value like that.  
> 
> I bought my Flatiron 2MC from GC back in '96?  for $275 ish.  Looks like its a post-Gibson, pre-Nashville version.... stamped with 'the Flatiron' on the headstock, and sticker says made in Belgrade, MT.  But the tailpiece cover is all Gibson (except not engraved).  Started playing mando, then marriage/house/life happened and I didn't come back to playing until I found my Flatiron sitting forlornly in the corner about three years ago.  It is a great little screamer - but it may be screaming from the D'Addario strings.  I'll have to try the GHS A250s instead.
> 
> After reading this thread, treated it to a sturdier TKL case instead of the original chipboard. :D
> 
> K'hat


It was nice to meet you at the Marietta Square Jam the other night!... Hope to see you (and your 2MC) there again soon!

----------

Khatarlan

----------


## Steve Carlson

> Thanks, F-D! I never heard of Charles Morrison and did not know that he was the originator of the Flatiron mandolin. I knew of them later when Mandolin Brothers first carried them in NY.


Here's a little more info on the subject of Flatiron Mandolins startup and early days.

https://zetaviolins.com/steve-carlson 

Best,
Steve Carlson

----------

Bernie Daniel, 

fatt-dad, 

Jim Garber, 

Jim Hilburn, 

pickinNgrinnin

----------


## Jim Hilburn

Thanks for that link Steve.
I met Chuck M. in Boulder a few years ago when he was working on a presentation on early luthiery in the Boulder area. He told me the Flatiron story but this article really fills in the blanks.

Also wanted to mention that the first time I saw Tim and Mollie O'Brien play the Boulder Theater in support of their first album Tim was playing a Flatiron pancake octave. Surely led to the creation of the Nugget octave which led to me and many more building them

----------

Bernie Daniel

----------


## Jim Garber

> Here's a little more info on the subject of Flatiron Mandolins startup and early days.
> 
> https://zetaviolins.com/steve-carlson 
> 
> Best,
> Steve Carlson


Thanks, Steve. I bought one of your very first A5-2s from Mandolin Brothers in 1983. I still have it and play it quite often. I contacted you via telephone (pre-cell and pre-email) soon after that to see if you would build me a carved mandola, but it would have taken another year and a half and I needed to get a good instrument—there were fewer of thse than even decent mandolins in those days. 

BTW I love this souped-up early Morrison Flatiron. Love that soundhole.

----------


## Khatarlan

Spencer - I plan on coming back to Marietta Square for more jams.... but this time with a strap and a chair!

Playing my Flatiron with no strap - and on one leg - makes for a great story, but not great music  :Laughing:

----------


## Khatarlan

First time with using pictures w/Cafe, trying again....

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## fatt-dad

Late ‘70s, Boulder, Colorado, working as a geologist! Ah, the memories. . . 

My first awareness of Hot Rize! 

Had my Kay. It took a while for me to upgrade!

f-d

----------


## J.C. Bryant

Somehow I completely traded or sold off my flat top mandolins and really miss them.  I had some Big Muddies and really like them but eventually sold them off ( I do not know why).  So, here just lately, I have gone into a MAF (mandolin acquisition fit) and have acquired two Flatirons, an NI in a great case and a 3MC with case.  This time I really plan on holding on to them and enjoying them.  Having said all that I also really like my two arch tops also.  The Flatiron thread moves on!

----------


## ironmikezero

A new member here, with a question: Does it count as a _compulsive_ _purchase_ if someone else (like a loving spouse) acquires a Flatiron Cadet for you?

If so, I might have a tale to tell . . . 

A coupla weeks ago, I was rummaging around in a little-used, yet overstuffed closet in a bedroom we don't use, except as a catch-all for you know, _stuff_. Wedged in the back of the closet, I discovered an old fiberboard mandolin case. Hmm, heavy--there's something in it. A vague memory surfaced, but it was clouded by more than two decades of life's intervening events. Sometime in the dim past my wife had mentioned that she liked the sound of a mandolin, and she'd like it if I were to add a mandolin to my modest selection of guitars (I'm merely a hobby guitartist just for fun). I must have mumbled something in the affirmative because a little later, she presented me with a mandolin in this very case. I graciously accepted and put it away fully intending to begin learning the mandolin. That was 1993.

Unfortunately, life has a way of disrupting the best of intentions. I was still in government service at the time, and circumstantial demands would only escalate until my retirement in 2005.

Ever hear the typical comments about how much free time you'll enjoy post retirement? Yeah, right . . . They don't tell you about the rip in the space-time continuum that allows all that presumed leisure time to subtly leak away. You learn that lesson the hard way--and then you look for something else to do, just to stay sane. So, I have a second career as a technical/legal writer and novelist that has proven satisfactory, and more often than not, fun. 

All the while the music has beckoned, a guitar usually handy for periodic foray into calming bliss that keeps me centered and often leads to inspiration. Trust me, novelists need all the inspiration they can get.  

Occasionally life allows a pleasant surprise, just waiting to be rediscovered in the nether regions of a dark forgotten closet, and earning me a smug smile and knowing glance from my ever-patient wife. 


Okay, the details: 1993 Flatiron Cadet (as new in the original fiberboard case, 3 clasps), Serial No. 93105083, Performer Series, Handmade in Bozeman, MT., Nickel/Chrome (?) tuners, and it does have a truss rod. The original strings were about a whole step flat, and some rust speckles were evident on the A & E strings just above the bridge.  (Sorry, no pics--I don't have, or want, a smartphone)     

Oh yes, I've read the entirety of this legendary thread, savoring the wit and wisdom of the posting members, and learning more than I ever expected. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen; and by all means, please carry on!
 :Cool:

----------


## fatt-dad

> A new member here, with a question: Does it count as a _compulsive_ _purchase_ if someone else (like a loving spouse) acquires a Flatiron Cadet for you?
> 
> If so, I might have a tale to tell . . . 
> 
> A coupla weeks ago, I was rummaging around in a little-used, yet overstuffed closet in a bedroom we don't use, except as a catch-all for you know, _stuff_. Wedged in the back of the closet, I discovered an old fiberboard mandolin case. Hmm, heavy--there's something in it. A vague memory surfaced, but it was clouded by more than two decades of life's intervening events. Sometime in the dim past my wife had mentioned that she liked the sound of a mandolin, and she'd like it if I were to add a mandolin to my modest selection of guitars (I'm merely a hobby guitartist just for fun). I must have mumbled something in the affirmative because a little later, she presented me with a mandolin in this very case. I graciously accepted and put it away fully intending to begin learning the mandolin. That was 1993.
> 
> Unfortunately, life has a way of disrupting the best of intentions. I was still in government service at the time, and circumstantial demands would only escalate until my retirement in 2005.
> 
> Ever hear the typical comments about how much free time you'll enjoy post retirement? Yeah, right . . . They don't tell you about the rip in the space-time continuum that allows all that presumed leisure time to subtly leak away. You learn that lesson the hard way--and then you look for something else to do, just to stay sane. So, I have a second career as a technical/legal writer and novelist that has proven satisfactory, and more often than not, fun. 
> ...


Own up!  We want photos!

(great story, lord knows what I'll find when I retire and organize the house!)

f-d

----------


## Jim Garber

Very funny! After reading this thread for over 15 years I just now realized that the title is not accurate. There is a difference in meaning between compulsive and impulsive.

The title should really be "Impulsive purchase- Flatiron 1N." The OP back in 2004 just clicked the mouse on eBay and bought a Flatiron not knowing anything about them. He didn't find himself buying one every week or even every month or year. 

Of course, many of us here *are* compulsive mandolin buyers—we see or play one and a repeat the act of buying another over and over. That is the heart of MAS.

Here's a description of the difference from *verywellmind.com*:




> While impulse buying is largely unplanned and happens at the moment in reaction to an external trigger — such as seeing the desired item in the shop — compulsive shopping is more inwardly motivated. A compulsive shopper will plan the shopping experience as a way to avoid or relieve uncomfortable internal feelings, such as anxiety.
> 
> Compulsive shoppers are also more likely to experience negative consequences as a result of their shopping than impulse buyers, such as running into financial difficulties, having arguments with family members, and experiencing emotional confusion. They are also more likely to fall into a pattern of addictive behavior, in which they shop more and more in an attempt to stave off stress and anxiety. This is how shopping addiction develops.

----------

bruce.b, 

fatt-dad, 

John Soper

----------


## Spawndn72

My 1984 3MW Flatiron Mandolin just showed up. This is my first mandolin, from what I can tell, it plays well.
Wanted to say thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread. I spent 2 days reading all of it  :Smile:

----------


## Spawndn72

What is everyone’s action height at the 12th fret?

----------


## atetone

> Very funny! After reading this thread for over 15 years I just now realized that the title is not accurate. There is a difference in meaning between compulsive and impulsive.
> 
> The title should really be "Impulsive purchase- Flatiron 1N." The OP back in 2004 just clicked the mouse on eBay and bought a Flatiron not knowing anything about them. He didn't find himself buying one every week or even every month or year. 
> 
> Of course, many of us here *are* compulsive mandolin buyerswe see or play one and a repeat the act of buying another over and over. That is the heart of MAS.
> 
> Here's a description of the difference from *verywellmind.com*:


As the original poster of this thread over 15 years ago all I can say is "Mr Garber, , oh sure throw that in my face!!!"  Haha!
 I can't remember last week never mind 15 years ago but I think I was a compulsive buyer who engaged in an impulsive buy.
One thing I do know is that that particular Flatiron was only the first in a number of Flatiron Cadets that I have bought and sold over the years along with dozens and dozens of other mandolins.
I might not have been a compulsive mandolin buyer way back then but I certainly became one.
I still find mandolins around here that I have no recollection of buying.
Lots of nooks and crannies in this house to hide them in.
Turns out that I unintentionally hide them from myself too.
15 years!  Wow. Time flies.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Jim Garber

> As the original poster of this thread over 15 years ago all I can say is "Mr Garber, , oh sure throw that in my face!!!"  Haha!
>  I can't remember last week never mind 15 years ago but I think I was a compulsive buyer who engaged in an impulsive buy.
> One thing I do know is that that particular Flatiron was only the first in a number of Flatiron Cadets that I have bought and sold over the years along with dozens and dozens of other mandolins.
> I might not have been a compulsive mandolin buyer way back then but I certainly became one.
> I still find mandolins around here that I have no recollection of buying.
> Lots of nooks and crannies in this house to hide them in.
> Turns out that I unintentionally hide them from myself too.
> 15 years!  Wow. Time flies.


Well, Mr. Atetone (if that is your real name), do you still have your original Flatiron 1N? That particular mandolin was the inspiration for one of the most iconic and long-lived threads on this esteemed site. Did you sell that one, too?

----------


## Br1ck

I love seeing this thread pop up now and then. The 1N is as solid as it ever was, and a fine way to go if bluegrass isn’t your thing. It is still the cheapest truly satisfying mandolin I’ve played.

----------


## atetone

Jim I dont still own the mandolin that I started this thread about.
I cant really remember but I think I probably traded it away for something else.
After that I did buy several others iterations of the Cadet but they are all gone too.
In regards to my apprehension at the time I need not have worried.
I was very happy with the purchase as it turned out. They are nice little mandolins and louder than you would think possible but of course you are familiar with them so you know that.
Once this thread took off I made a point of not posting to it until now.
I didnt want to be seen to be falsely pumping it but that is old news now.
It took on a life of its own and it seems to help people learn about these wonderful little mandolins.
Good stuff.

----------


## Jim Garber

That is all right. Thanks for "compulsively" starting this thread. It is one of the landmark threads of this site.

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Good to check in on the old Flatiron pancake thread once in a while.

----------


## fatt-dad

Son in law has my original '84. Gave it to him as a wedding present!

Immediately bought an '83. And, yes, it does have the five-latch case!

Still love these mandolins!

f-d

----------


## Franc Homier Lieu

> Got an '83 1N today. What can I say that has not been said in the 1002 previous posts? Beautiful. Simple. Playable. Sweet tone. Great volume. Going to play it all day tomorrow.


Quoting the post I made in January 2014 on page 40 of this thread because I just bought this '83 1N back from Cafe member theCOOP after selling it to him a few years ago. He was very kind to give me right of first refusal before listing it for sale, and I am so happy to have this mandolin back. I have sold a lot of mandolins in the almost ten years since I got my first one, but I have never really had seller's remorse except for the 1N. I know to never say never, but I am never parting with this mandolin again!

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Eric C.

Guess I'll join in the fun. Just compulsively bought the 1N Elderly put up in the classifieds. Always wanted one!

----------


## Franc Homier Lieu

Congrats! I find it is the perfect complement to my KM-950, which I see you also have. Post some pics when it arrives, please!

----------


## fatt-dad

Hi Eric!  Full report when it's in hand!  I just noticed that mandolin myself. Looks very clean.  I'm sure it'll be great!

f-d

----------


## Jim Garber

> Guess I'll join in the fun. Just compulsively bought the 1N Elderly put up in the classifieds. Always wanted one!


Hah! Being a language curmudgeon, I will again bring up the misuse of the title word here. So, Eric, will you buy another for every week for a while, not being able to stop. Just kidding, of course.

The correct title for this thread should be "*Impulsive* purchase- Flatiron 1N."

----------


## soliver

Working on Soliver #001: my first build is following plans from Terry Majewski for a Flatty just like the 1N. I had a 1N for a short period (see page 45 #1115 of this thread) and I kinda wish I'd kept it.... #001 will have a torrified sitka top and mahogany back and sides.

----------


## Eric C.

> Hah! Being a language curmudgeon, I will again bring up the misuse of the title word here. So, Eric, will you buy another for every week for a while, not being able to stop. Just kidding, of course.
> 
> The correct title for this thread should be "*Impulsive* purchase- Flatiron 1N."


Stay tuned!  :Mandosmiley:

----------


## fatt-dad

soliver, That's exciting!  

f-d

----------


## soliver

> soliver, That's exciting!  
> 
> f-d


INDEEDY!... I'll keep this thread updated!

----------


## soliver

Here's a more complete pic of where I'm at:



Top and back rough cut waiting on bracing; received brace wood from LMI, radiused ebony finger board from SM

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

Ive owned a few of these over the years but not in recent times. That changed with this Koa back and sides March 1986 model. Came with the 5 latch case. Incredible tone and playability. Always happy to see this thread resurface!

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## dulcillini

One comment.  Others have given splendid comments about the mandolin.  There is no such thing as a compulsive purchase, when it comes to mandolin!.  Now, on the subject of retirement.  I experienced the same issues.  I had to purchase the larger DayTimer diary AFTER I retired.  After about 1 year or so, I learned a whole new word, NO !  It is hard at first, but it gets easier.  You have to say it to your neighbors, all the organizations you belong to, your grandchildren, the list goes on.  I quit using the word, "retirement" altogether.  That helped, as well.  Eight years later, I am busier than ever, but I am setting the pace and feeling the peace, knowing that I now have the time to do purposeful, fulfilling work.  I stepped up to be president of my Rotary Club, because I wanted to.  I play my mandolins and mountain dulcimers often--in the house, in the yard, wherever.  I serve as a library trustee because I wanted to and felt passionate about it.  In this world today, literacy and music are things that will save people from themselves.  Find that light that has been burning inside you and go for it.  You are not required to be a gatekeeper, a chauffer, or a family logistics facilitator.  It will feel so liberating and it IS NOT selfish.

----------

Eldon Dennis, 

fatt-dad, 

Franc Homier Lieu, 

robw95, 

Sue Rieter

----------


## fatt-dad

P-N-G,  Wow! That's a sweet mandolin!  I'm also drawn to the 5-latch case as ultimate security for these pancakes! Just so right!

I'd also be quite curious about the koa sound!  I can already tell, it's cool looking!

f-d

----------


## fatt-dad

> One comment.  Others have given splendid comments about the mandolin.  There is no such thing as a compulsive purchase, when it comes to mandolin!.  Now, on the subject of retirement.  I experienced the same issues.  I had to purchase the larger DayTimer diary AFTER I retired.  After about 1 year or so, I learned a whole new word, NO !  It is hard at first, but it gets easier.  You have to say it to your neighbors, all the organizations you belong to, your grandchildren, the list goes on.  I quit using the word, "retirement" altogether.  That helped, as well.  Eight years later, I am busier than ever, but I am setting the pace and feeling the peace, knowing that I now have the time to do purposeful, fulfilling work.  I stepped up to be president of my Rotary Club, because I wanted to.  I play my mandolins and mountain dulcimers often--in the house, in the yard, wherever.  I serve as a library trustee because I wanted to and felt passionate about it.  In this world today, literacy and music are things that will save people from themselves.  Find that light that has been burning inside you and go for it.  You are not required to be a gatekeeper, a chauffer, or a family logistics facilitator.  It will feel so liberating and it IS NOT selfish.


(I want to retire so badly!  Had my papers in.  Had my date set.  Then COVID!  Sure, I get to work from home!  So, that's nice.  Heck, my wife has been working from home for decades! Then she lost her job.  So, I keep working for the medical insurance (She's younger). We'll get there. . . all in good time.)

f-d

----------

TheMandoKit

----------


## allenhopkins

> ..There is no such thing as a compulsive purchase, when it comes to mandolin!.


I believe an earlier post revealed that the thread was supposed to be called "_Im_pulsive Purchase."  I'm too lazy to go looking for the post.




> Now, on the subject of retirement.  I experienced the same issues.  I had to purchase the larger DayTimer diary AFTER I retired...I quit using the word, "retirement" altogether...Eight years later, I am busier than ever...Find that light that has been burning inside you and go for it...It will feel so liberating and it IS NOT selfish.


Agree.  I retired 19.5 years ago.  Since then I've played 2-3K gigs, plus helping set up two concert series, and keeping active in political campaigns, alumni affairs, and our local folk music club.  The pandemic's cut me back severely, but I'm raring to get back into things when it's over.  (_If_ it's ever over...)

----------


## pickinNgrinnin

[Wow! That's a sweet mandolin!  I'm also drawn to the 5-latch case as ultimate security for these pancakes! Just so right!

I'd also be quite curious about the koa sound!  I can already tell, it's cool looking!

f-d[/QUOTE]

Glad to see you are still keeping this long standing thread going! My Koa Pancake has the brightness of the Maple back and side versions Ive owned but this Koa Pancake has a sweeter midrange. Such a great little picker. Its also my first one that came with the 5 latch case. I lived in Montana when this was built, lucky to have found it 34 years later. Heres a shot of the back, very flamey back and sides. Beautiful!

----------


## robw95

> One comment.  Others have given splendid comments about the mandolin.  There is no such thing as a compulsive purchase, when it comes to mandolin!.  Now, on the subject of retirement.  I experienced the same issues.  I had to purchase the larger DayTimer diary AFTER I retired.  After about 1 year or so, I learned a whole new word, NO !  It is hard at first, but it gets easier.  You have to say it to your neighbors, all the organizations you belong to, your grandchildren, the list goes on.  I quit using the word, "retirement" altogether.  That helped, as well.  Eight years later, I am busier than ever, but I am setting the pace and feeling the peace, knowing that I now have the time to do purposeful, fulfilling work.  I stepped up to be president of my Rotary Club, because I wanted to.  I play my mandolins and mountain dulcimers often--in the house, in the yard, wherever.  I serve as a library trustee because I wanted to and felt passionate about it.  In this world today, literacy and music are things that will save people from themselves.  Find that light that has been burning inside you and go for it.  You are not required to be a gatekeeper, a chauffer, or a family logistics facilitator.  It will feel so liberating and it IS NOT selfish.


Great post my friend. I am retired (I'm 60) and I spend a lot of time with guitar, and now mandolin, and being a volunteer literacy tutor at my local library. I agree that music and literacy make the world a better place. 

Rob

----------


## robw95

> [Wow! That's a sweet mandolin!  I'm also drawn to the 5-latch case as ultimate security for these pancakes! Just so right!
> 
> I'd also be quite curious about the koa sound!  I can already tell, it's cool looking!
> 
> f-d


Glad to see you are still keeping this long standing thread going! My Koa Pancake has the brightness of the Maple back and side versions I’ve owned but this Koa Pancake has a sweeter midrange. Such a great little picker. It’s also my first one that came with the 5 latch case. I lived in Montana when this was built, lucky to have found it 34 years later. Here’s a shot of the back, very flamey back and sides. Beautiful!


[/QUOTE]

That's a pretty mandolin and a great story about being nearby when it was built and then finding it years later! 

Rob

----------


## fatt-dad

That is a pretty mandolin!  Play it in good health!

f-d

----------


## Cobalt

> Hah! Being a language curmudgeon, I will again bring up the misuse of the title word here. So, Eric, will you buy another for every week for a while, not being able to stop. Just kidding, of course.
> 
> The correct title for this thread should be "*Impulsive* purchase- Flatiron 1N."


I guess it could be compelling rather than compulsive.
When I bought mine it seemed that way - still does.

----------


## fatt-dad

2M-F on eBay (5-latch case)!  Wow! An f-hole pancake!

f-d

----------


## soliver

#001 coming along nicely! My sound board has some really nice bear claw!

----------


## fatt-dad

Hey Spencer! That's so great!

I was going to edit in my screen capture of the f-hole pancake.  Too late.  So, I'm doing that right now.



f-d

----------

Cobalt

----------


## soliver

Sawchyn makes an F hole model; The Hobo https://store.dustystrings.com/p-5791-sawchyn-hobo.aspx

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## pops1

> Hey Spencer! That's so great!
> 
> I was going to edit in my screen capture of the f-hole pancake.  Too late.  So, I'm doing that right now.
> 
> 
> 
> f-d


I've been seeing that and wondering how it sounds. Must have been an early one?

----------


## fatt-dad

> I've been seeing that and wondering how it sounds. Must have been an early one?


dude won't accept my offer and wants a heavy shipping fee.  I think I'll pass, but. . .  Very intrigued!

f-d

----------


## TheMandoKit

> (I want to retire so badly!  Had my papers in.  Had my date set.  Then COVID!  Sure, I get to work from home!  So, that's nice.  Heck, my wife has been working from home for decades! Then she lost her job.  So, I keep working for the medical insurance (She's younger). We'll get there. . . all in good time.)
> 
> f-d


I feel your pain...My date was going to be June, 2020. Then COVID. Then some family stuff. My new date is late spring 2021.

Apropos of dulcillini's post above, I am looking forward to learning how to say "NO" to people. Being in a position where you have to serve your client's (frequently unrealistic) demands, it's not a word I use very often. It will be great to say "No, sorry, I have some important things to work out on my mandolin/guitar/dulcimer/violin/piano. Maybe some other time." And I won't feel selfish or bad about it at all.

BTW, to circle back, I have a 1N that was a bit of an >>im<<pulsive purchase. Great for playing in the backyard under the umbrella. Until the mozzies get too bad.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## soliver

Updating with recent photos...

I made a 3 piece peg head veneer with ebony and sapele and got the binding installed over the last few days. Waiting on a couple more things to finish up the fretboard before gluing it to the neck and then I can finish shaping the neck. I wiped down the body with mineral spirits to see how it'd look... unfortunately I'm low on funds so I may have to put things on hold for a short while.

----------

Eric Platt

----------


## fatt-dad

Thanks for that reply!  Saying, "No!"  Hahahahhaaahhaaa!  When the phone rings the answer is, "Yes."  The mantra of a consultant, which I was for over 30 years.  Now it's agency work.  Another world of Dilbert!  That said, I do love my career. Geo-stuff is fun! And, we are building some really cool projects right now!

Regarding the compulsive [sic] purchases.  Seems there are a few of us.  How else it get to almost 50 pages of pancake!?!

f-d





> I feel your pain...My date was going to be June, 2020. Then COVID. Then some family stuff. My new date is late spring 2021.
> 
> Apropos of dulcillini's post above, I am looking forward to learning how to say "NO" to people. Being in a position where you have to serve your client's (frequently unrealistic) demands, it's not a word I use very often. It will be great to say "No, sorry, I have some important things to work out on my mandolin/guitar/dulcimer/violin/piano. Maybe some other time." And I won't feel selfish or bad about it at all.
> 
> BTW, to circle back, I have a 1N that was a bit of an >>im<<pulsive purchase. Great for playing in the backyard under the umbrella. Until the mozzies get too bad.

----------


## Nathan Sanders



----------

E.R. Villalobos, 

fatt-dad, 

soliver

----------


## fatt-dad

That sounds great Nathan!  Thanks for posting!

f-d

----------


## soliver

Nathan, I wasn't aware that Gibson had made more current versions of the flatty... Cool! Thanks for sharing that, it sounded great!

----------


## Nathan Sanders

Thanks Soliver! Yes, Gibson made this particular army-navy in 1996. Not sure how many they made, but you do not see them too often. The one I have was in a local dealer's inventory for nearly 20 years, brand new. I played it once or twice while he had it. I told a buddy of mine about it, who ended up buying it. I later did some trading with my buddy and ended up with it. Great pancake!

----------


## soliver

Realized I hadn't posted any recent pics of soliver #001 here on this thread, particularly since it was finished, disassembled, reassembled And refinished... and now sporting an Ebony armrest to match all of the other ebony appointments:

----------

fatt-dad, 

Nathan Sanders

----------


## Eric C.

Realized I never posted a photo of mine.

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## allenhopkins

> Nathan, I wasn't aware that Gibson had made more current versions of the flatty... Cool! Thanks for sharing that, it sounded great!


It's called an "A N Custom"; I have one, label signed by Steve Carlson and dated December 16, 1987.  Serial number is 7001128, no FON that I can find.

_Very_ figured back and sides, the old "A-3" inlay design on the headstock, gold hardware and a very nice fitted hardshell case.  Mine came from Bernunzio's, and is also signed inside with a Sharpie, "L. Catello."  John Bernunzio told me that it was probably made for Lou Catello of Catello & Sons in Berlin NH, a store that was in business for quite a few years and "sold everything from Gibson guitars to bass boats and outboard motors," according to John B.

Nice instrument, and shows that Carlson didn't lose his love of making "pancake" mandolins when he went to work for Gibson.

----------

fatt-dad, 

Nathan Sanders

----------


## soliver

One of these days I'm going to remember which way to hold my phone so that photos turn out right side up on the MC forum

----------


## fatt-dad

I awake in a fog. . . 

Last night I offered $600 against a $1,200 eBay pitch on an '83 2M.  The dust settled at $650.

Now to wait. . .

Seems almost perfect condition and includes the 5-latch case.

Couldn't pass it up!

I think it's compulsive?

f-d

----------

Eric Platt

----------


## RobP

I just have to say I love this 17-year-old thread.   It was started the year my youngest was born!  :Smile:

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## pheffernan

Welcome back to this old thread!

----------

fatt-dad

----------


## Parker135

So just a basic question..how similar is the 1N to the Gibson Army/Navy (or the three mandolins I've made from Crystal Forest plans)?

----------


## fatt-dad

Hmm?  I've only had the Flatiron in my hands.  I think the original Flatiron was modeled after the Army-Navy; however.  Not sure about the Crystal Forest?

f-d

----------


## Eric Platt

Looking at the Crystal Forest plans, they look similar to the Army Navy style. Not sure if the Crystal Forest is deeper at 1.5 inches or not.

----------


## Parker135

Okay.  Thanks.  I forget the depth on the plans.  I followed the plans pretty closely on the first one then tried a little deeper body and different wood from the maple spruce  original.   Very subtle differences and all fun to play.

----------


## soliver

The CF plans call for sides that are 1.5" deep. Terry's (Crystal Forest) mandolins are only slightly different from the 1N, but to look at a Crystal Forest next to a Flatiron, it'd be hard to tell the difference. I do believe the Flatiron was modeled after the Gibson Army/Navy.

I have built 2 from the Crystal plans, ... I am in the process of finishing up the second: with this one, i modified the plans even further, it is x-braced with a 7' radius induced arch (rather than 10'), i made the sides about 1.75" deep and did F-holes rather than an oval. The top is redwood and the back and sides are redbud wood.

----------


## soliver

Here are all 3 of the above mentioned Mando's from left to right: Gibson Army/Navy, Flatiron 1N, and Crystal Forest.

  

You can tell they are all very similar and I believe anyone would be comfortable calling them "Pancake" Mandolins! Gibson also sold the "Alrite" which was a fancier version of the Army/Navy mandolin with fancier appointments.

----------


## pheffernan

> Gibson also sold the "Alright" which was a fancier version of the Army/Navy mandolin with fancier appointments.


Andy Poe also sold an Alrite . . . once!

----------

soliver

----------


## soliver

And theres the Redline Traveler too,... just sayin'... but the discussion above was regarding the A/N, the 1N and the Crystal Forest mandos... and there's also the Sawchyn Beavertail. .... I'd say its a safe assumption that these are all modeled after the original Gibson A/N mando, though I'm not 100% certain.

----------


## fatt-dad

. . . and Troublesome Creek too:

https://troublesomecreekguitars.com/...hm-1-mandolin/

f-d

----------


## soliver

Finished my #002 build. I posted this and a video in my thread about the build of #001, but wanted to share a pic here too:



This one is X-braced rather than the typical A or H style bracing on the CF plans for this type of mando. Its also about 3/16" deeper and has violin style f-holes rather than the round hole. Redwood top and Redbud back and sides.

----------

Cary Fagan, 

Eric Platt

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## Zach Wilson

The Pancake bug bit hard and I impulsively bought an '82 N1 that should be here hopefully this week or next (I know the shipping world has been crazy with the Holidays and whatnot). No case. I'll be seeking recommendations though??? And, of course I'll post some photos/video upon its arrival. Oh, I can't wait!!!

Here's a photo from the seller.

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Eric Platt, 

fatt-dad, 

Sue Rieter

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## Zach Wilson

Also, forget to mention how great this, now historical, thread is. I will catch up on all the posts over the Holidays when I'll have some free time to read all 50 pages. Thanks to all who added!

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## J Mangio

Sorry...not a fan.

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## Zach Wilson

> Sorry...not a fan.


Savage but ok.

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## Eric Platt

Zack - congrats on getting one. Hopefully you will report on how it sounds once it shows up.

Been getting the itch for one again. Not sure if it will happen or not. Been trying to really downsize on instruments this year.

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## A 4

> No case. I'll be seeking recommendations though???


Ah, good luck with that case search.  If you find any good options, let us know.  

In my case, I had a Flatiron 2-MB with a chipboard case in terrible condition.  I ended up buying an inexpensive 1-N just for the case.  I was always disappointed in the 1-N until I finally had it setup earlier this year.  Turns out it sounds really good!  Now I have another good sounding Flatiron in a crummy case.

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## Sue Rieter

Looks cool, Zach. Alot different from your Weber, for sure  :Mandosmiley:

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## pheffernan

> Sorry...not a fan.


Strange . . . I haven’t seen Zach searching up threads about The Loars to voice his dissent. 

I am a fan. My Flatiron 1N to my ears was the best sounding of the flattops I sampled when starting out, including a Mid-Missouri, Gypsy, and Redline Traveler. I did prefer the aesthetics and especially the playability features on the Redline though — adjustable bridge and truss rod, radiused board, larger frets, etc. — and requested those specs when I ordered a custom built Scout from Andy Poe. It isn’t three times better for three times the money, but then, I haven’t had an urge to buy another pancake subsequently.

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Eric F.

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## Zach Wilson

> Zack - congrats on getting one. Hopefully you will report on how it sounds once it shows up.
> 
> Been getting the itch for one again. Not sure if it will happen or not. Been trying to really downsize on instruments this year.


Thank you! I'll do a full report once I receive it  :Smile:

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## Zach Wilson

> Ah, good luck with that case search.  If you find any good options, let us know.  
> 
> In my case, I had a Flatiron 2-MB with a chipboard case in terrible condition.  I ended up buying an inexpensive 1-N just for the case.  I was always disappointed in the 1-N until I finally had it setup earlier this year.  Turns out it sounds really good!  Now I have another good sounding Flatiron in a crummy case.


Yes, I have a couple spare cases that I've collected over the years. Im hoping that one of them fits it... at least close to fitting it.

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## Zach Wilson

> Looks cool, Zach. Alot different from your Weber, for sure


Yes, very cool! I've always loved flat top mandolins. I'm excited to get another.... I hope my Red Valley doesn't get jealous :Wink:

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## Zach Wilson

> Strange . . . I haven’t seen Zach searching up threads about The Loars to voice his dissent. 
> 
> I am a fan. My Flatiron 1N to my ears was the best sounding of the flattops I sampled when starting out, including a Mid-Missouri, Gypsy, and Redline Traveler. I did prefer the aesthetics and especially the playability features on the Redline though — adjustable bridge and truss rod, radiused board, larger frets, etc. — and requested those specs when I ordered a custom built Scout from Andy Poe. It isn’t three times better for three times the money, but then, I haven’t had an urge to buy another pancake subsequently.


I love the look of Andy Poe's builds. I've always wanted to try one!

I'm a Flatiron fan too. I'm excited to own one!

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## allenhopkins

> Yes, I have a couple spare cases that I've collected over the years. Im hoping that one of them fits it... at least close to fitting it.


One of the things I really loved when I purchased by Gibson A/N Custom "pancake," is that it came with a really fine, perfectly fitted hardshell case -- unfortunately, with a lot of ugly goop on the outside, which I covered with white paint (!), and stickers: "Bernunzio Uptown Music" (where I bought it), "Resist/Organize/Vote," and "Make Music, Not War."  I also stenciled my last name on the side of the case.

Thus, I have totally personalized it, and also reduced the resale value by what the next owner's gonna have to spend, to de-personalize it.

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Sue Rieter

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## Zach Wilson

> One of the things I really loved when I purchased by Gibson A/N Custom "pancake," is that it came with a really fine, perfectly fitted hardshell case -- unfortunately, with a lot of ugly goop on the outside, which I covered with white paint (!), and stickers: "Bernunzio Uptown Music" (where I bought it), "Resist/Organize/Vote," and "Make Music, Not War."  I also stenciled my last name on the side of the case.
> 
> Thus, I have totally personalized it, and also reduced the resale value by what the next owner's gonna have to spend, to de-personalize it.


Sounds awesome! I wish mine came with an original chip board (5 clasp) style, but didn't. Oh, well. If none of mine fit it I may start a hunt for something more vintage... maybe something I can personalize like yours!

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allenhopkins

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## Zach Wilson

Hey!!! I just got an email notification that my 1N might be delivered today! 

Here's to hoping  :Smile:

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## Sue Rieter

So exciting!
I know it's still kinda early on the left coast - but do you have it yet?

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## Zach Wilson

> So exciting!
> I know it's still kinda early on the left coast - but do you have it yet?


It's here! I'm gonna wait a little longer to let it get to temp.... "Waiting is the hardest part" -Petty

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Sue Rieter

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## Zach Wilson

Happy NMD! Today I received my "new to me" '82 1N. I bought it over the phone from GC in Fayetteville, GA after calling them to inquire about it. Originally the salesman told me it came without a case but upon arrival it has a very nice Alvarez travel-lite style case that fits it well! Also, I was surprised to see it has a pickup (K&K I think) installed that wasn't mentioned over the phone! It's louder then my other flat top, the volume actually is quite shocking! As for the set up, its good, a tad higher than I prefer... I might look at getting a new bridge to play around with or shave this one down a bit. Otherwise, other than a few scratches and a bump on the peghead it's a solid and fun mando!

Anyways, I'm stoked!

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Chuck Leyda, 

Eric Platt, 

Sue Rieter

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## Sue Rieter

It looks cool, and you look like a happy man!

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## Jim Garber

> It looks cool, and you look like a happy man!


I see sparkles of MAS in your eyes, Sue.  :Smile:

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Sue Rieter

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## CES

I sold my 1N in a downsize move a couple of years ago. IIrC I tossed the original and useless chipboard case and housed it in a TKL a style case with t-shirts stuffed in to fill the dead space. Not ideal, but functioned OK for my non-abusive travels with it. I currently have a Reunion Blues gig bag that would probably have worked better. Congrats, and good luck on the case!

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## Zach Wilson

> It looks cool, and you look like a happy man!


Very happy man!

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## Zach Wilson

> I sold my 1N in a downsize move a couple of years ago. IIrC I tossed the original and useless chipboard case and housed it in a TKL a style case with t-shirts stuffed in to fill the dead space. Not ideal, but functioned OK for my non-abusive travels with it. I currently have a Reunion Blues gig bag that would probably have worked better. Congrats, and good luck on the case!


Thanks! Looking forward to some time off next week to play this one... a bunch!

- - - Updated - - -




> I see sparkles of MAS in your eyes, Sue.


I do too  :Laughing:

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## Zach Wilson

Here's a sound sample video of my new Flatiron I did real quick. Enjoy!

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## Zach Wilson

Some thoughts on my 'new to me' 82 1N:

I was able to play this one a bunch over the last couple days as my Plant has been down (maintenance down time) for the Holidays and will continue to be until after New Years. I wanted to wait to change the used/dead-ish strings it arrived with until after Christmas morning cause I usually receive new strings (and other mando related gifts) from my loving wife. As I suspected I did, GHS A205's in fact, which are one of my favorite strings for my Red Valley flat top. As we gathered at my Mom and Dad's house in Kent, a short drive from my house, Christmas day enjoying each other's company (gift exchanging, feasting, watching movies, playing games, and connecting through conversation and laugher) there were some quiet times where nothing was really going on... this is when I pull out an instrument and noodle on Christmas tunes. Instead of playing I took the time to change strings.... 

First, the tailpiece (clamshell style) is not awful to work with but also not ideal if you have limited time. Once I figured the right way to (carefully) bend the loop end of the string it was, a little easier.

The result, this Mandolin really sings! And is really loud... it's like a Canon, and I love that about it. The lighter gauge strings are comfortable and still put out plenty of volume, however when played with a light touch the 1N also plays sweetly. 

I noticed that the tuners are not original and in another post asked about them. I suspected that they were Grovers and that was the consensus from others (thanks). They run very smoothly and hold well. What more could you want?  :Smile: 

The frets are in good shape but much, much thiner than the frets on my other mandos. It felt funny to play it at first but didn't take long to get used to. I do not know if they are original. 

The pickup, which I didn't know about when purchasing over the phone that the salesman forgot to mention (happy surprise) sounds good through my Amp at home. I haven't tried it elsewhere yet. I do like the internal placement as it doesn't feedback like my external (lr baggs) pickup does. It's a little 'electric' sounding however (sort of like an under saddle guitar pickup) but it would work in a pinch when acoustic subtleties aren't an issue. 

When I received it I was also surprised that it came with a functional Alvarez travel-lite style case that fits it... kinda. I stuffed the dead spaces with some unused socks and it works. Pretty nice case really. 

All in all I really dig this instrument and it is probably one I'll keep (I don't release a whole lot anyway) forever. It seems perfect for travel and camps and such.

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Eric Platt

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## fatt-dad

so exciting Zach!

You're hooked now!  Seems you started on a good one too!

f-d

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## Zach Wilson

> so exciting Zach!
> 
> You're hooked now!  Seems you started on a good one too!
> 
> f-d


Definitely hooked! This '82 1N is a keeper  :Smile:

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## CES

Sounds great! Nice score on the pickup and case!

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## prof_87

> I woke up from a nap this afternoon, searched ebay and did a Buy-It-Now on a 1994 Flatiron 1N with hardcase.
> About 10 minutes later when I fully woke up I realized what I had done, it dawned on me that I really don't know much about them. This MAS thing is killing me. I am doing it in my sleep now.
> So,,, since I now own one can anyone tell me anything about them? 
> Please, please, say that I didn't make a bad mistake.
> No,,,,, just tell me the truth. I can take it.


I had a Festival F in the 90"s and it was marvelous. Bill Monroe played it and that it was a "Goodern"  I sold it to buy and John Hutto F 5 Master. This one is heavely.

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## Jim Garber

Since we revived this “vintage” thread I might as well post my most recent acquisition, a Flatiron 2K from ‘83. Here are pics with my ‘83 A5-2 which I bought new in that year from Mandolin Brothers. I love playing this pancake. I did not realize that recommended string gauges were printed on a label on the neck block and I had some German light gauge strings that were the proper gauge and make this 2K sing.

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allenhopkins, 

EdHanrahan, 

Eric Platt, 

fatt-dad, 

Sue Rieter

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## fatt-dad

> Since we revived this “vintage” thread I might as well post my most recent acquisition, a Flatiron 2K from ‘83. Here are pics with my ‘83 A5-2 which I bought new in that year from Mandolin Brothers. I love playing this pancake. I did not realize that recommended string gauges were printed on a label on the neck block and I had some German light gauge strings that were the proper gauge and make this 2K sing.


nice collection!

f-d

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## Jim Garber

> nice collection!
> 
> f-d


I guess two can be a collection but I also consider it a reunion of two mandolins that could have been in the STE shop at the same time. I really enjoy playing this pancake and koa is one of my favorite woods in both look and tone.

BTW I am *compulsively* playing it. A truly fun instrument.

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fatt-dad

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## Jim Garber

Also: Bernunzio has a nice looking 2M (maple flavored) for sale. NFI for me. With original HSC. https://bernunzio.com/product/flatir...andolin-28303/

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## MikeyG

> I consider it a reunion of two mandolins that could have been in the STE shop at the same time.


I don't think that's possible, Jim. Sound to Earth was founded in 1997.  But they might have been together in the Bozeman shop of the Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Company in 1983.

MikeyG

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## Jim Garber

> I don't think that's possible, Jim. Sound to Earth was founded in 1997.  But they might have been together in the Bozeman shop of the Flatiron Mandolin and Banjo Company in 1983.
> 
> MikeyG


You are correct. I meant Back Porch Productions which is on the label.

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## tmsweeney

I just picked up the Flatiron Mandola that Mill River music had on Reverb  (only a 2 hour drive so took the wife on a date as part of the deal), I've only every played the octaves and mandos and don't believe those dola's are all that common? 
I always thought they felt well made and the tone  and volume was always vey good on them. This one is no exception, a 96, a few surface dings but in overall great shape. The sustain and tone and over tones are all vey intriguing and I like the action and playability. A little thin on the bottom compared to my Weber's, but still a great mandola. Sooner or later I'll try a set of Curt Mangan's, I think it will be louder yet. This is mandola number 5 for me, and I think its a keeper.

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## Mace

Good for you. I had thought about it as a matching companion to my cadet mandolin. The scout seem to be rare. I reached out to Bruce Weber regarding production numbers, etc. He replied that all the records went to Gibson and he has often regretted not copying them. If you have or find out more information, please post. There is a cadet at Gruhn for a decent price if youre interested in a matching set.

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## tmsweeney

Well I do have a Flat Iron Festival but its an F style, so I have 2 Flatirons , The Dola is that blood red finish, Scout 9601545 Performer Series it has recommended string gauges listed on the neck butt - 12-21 32 49, a fixed bridge and seashell tail piece cover with a very plain back and overall finish.  The simple but well proportioned design and quality workmanship  indicate the instrument was meant to be played by anyone anywhere. To me the phrase rings true "there is wisdom in humility, there is power in grace".

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## fatt-dad

> I just picked up the Flatiron Mandola that Mill River music had on Reverb  (only a 2 hour drive so took the wife on a date as part of the deal), I've only every played the octaves and mandos and don't believe those dola's are all that common? 
> I always thought they felt well made and the tone  and volume was always vey good on them. This one is no exception, a 96, a few surface dings but in overall great shape. The sustain and tone and over tones are all vey intriguing and I like the action and playability. A little thin on the bottom compared to my Weber's, but still a great mandola. Sooner or later I'll try a set of Curt Mangan's, I think it will be louder yet. This is mandola number 5 for me, and I think its a keeper.


That's just great!  I had my hands on one at a local jam one time and just loved it.

f-d

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## fatt-dad

> Also: Bernunzio has a nice looking 2M (maple flavored) for sale. NFI for me. With original HSC. https://bernunzio.com/product/flatir...andolin-28303/


I think that's a pretty good retail price, considering the hard-shell case.

f-d

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## Jim Garber

> I just picked up the Flatiron Mandola that Mill River music had on Reverb  (only a 2 hour drive so took the wife on a date as part of the deal), I've only every played the octaves and mandos and don't believe those dola's are all that common? 
> I always thought they felt well made and the tone  and volume was always vey good on them. This one is no exception, a 96, a few surface dings but in overall great shape. The sustain and tone and over tones are all vey intriguing and I like the action and playability. A little thin on the bottom compared to my Weber's, but still a great mandola. Sooner or later I'll try a set of Curt Mangan's, I think it will be louder yet. This is mandola number 5 for me, and I think its a keeper.


My 83 2K mandolin has a sticker on the neck block with recommended string gauges. Did they do that in 96?

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## tmsweeney

Sample of the Scout I just put a set of Curt Mangan Mandola strings on

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## Sue Rieter

That's pretty dang cool! Sounds great and looks awesome (red!)  :Mandosmiley:

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tmsweeney

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## tmsweeney

The Lonesome Flatiron Scout enjoying a Danish Beverage and a respite from its owner trying to remember the chords to "Russian Lullaby" for the 47th time

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Sue Rieter

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## Sam Schillace

> I just picked up the Flatiron Mandola that Mill River music had on Reverb  (only a 2 hour drive so took the wife on a date as part of the deal), I've only every played the octaves and mandos and don't believe those dola's are all that common? 
> I always thought they felt well made and the tone  and volume was always vey good on them. This one is no exception, a 96, a few surface dings but in overall great shape. The sustain and tone and over tones are all vey intriguing and I like the action and playability. A little thin on the bottom compared to my Weber's, but still a great mandola. Sooner or later I'll try a set of Curt Mangan's, I think it will be louder yet. This is mandola number 5 for me, and I think its a keeper.


I have one of these (and a cadet, and a 2K and a 2MI like them). Its a really nice tonal range, easy to play.  Someone had dropped it at one point and one side of the top brace had gotten loose and caused some sinkage, but Gryphon fixed it right up. 

I also have a Gibson 1917 army navy (I dont know why, I really like the flattop style), its a nice instrument but the flatirons sound much nicer.

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## Nathan Sanders

I just picked up the Flatiron Mandola The Mandolin Store had for sale. Great instrument! I will post a picture and/or video soon. This rounds out my Flatiron collection. Talk to me about strings. I usually use D'Addario and I noticed Curt Mangan strings mentioned above. I am considering GHS too. Any others? Opinions? Thanks.

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## fatt-dad

Well tm,  That both sounds great and I love your touch in that tune!

Perfect!

f-d




> Sample of the Scout I just put a set of Curt Mangan Mandola strings on

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## tmsweeney

Thanks f-d, those flat iron pancakes are so rugged and simple, a real joy to play, inspiring!

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## Jim Garber

This '81 1N believe it or not is on ShopGoodWill.com and looks AFAIK to be in good condition. Lots of interest in it though and might sell for close to retail. https://shopgoodwill.com/item/148941667

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## Eric Platt

Am back in! Was thinking of getting the PX1917 that was on Reverb, but dilly-dallied too long. Then got thinking about one that has been hanging at a local store for a long time. Like years. Was going to buy it last time in the store, but walked out with a Brentrup instead. 

Not this time. Took a slightly longer lunch and headed over to make the purchase. Came with the original soft case. At home removed the (extremely) old strings and then sanded down the bridge. A lot. Much more playable now and still loud Put on a set of GHS A250 and spent most of last night practicing.

Like last time, am probably going to use the Eastman gigbag for transporting it around. Unless someone knows of a better bag? Also, the neck on this one seems a bit bigger than the 1983 I previously had. But hard to say for sure. Maybe I'm just getting more used to smaller necks.

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## Sue Rieter

Really nice looking mandolin, love the color.

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## Eric Platt

For posterity - these are some photos of the 1989 Flatiron PX1917 I missed. Since this model doesn't turn up that often figure it might be worth documenting. From what I can tell, it looks like a black Cadet with very plain back. Tuners are replaced Rubner as stated in the original ad.

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