# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  Quality of Harley Benton vs Eastwood/Revelation?

## Ron McMillan

I know that there are a list of mandocaster brands coming out of almost certainly one factory in China - including Eastwood, Alden, Clearwater, Morgan Monroe, Revelation and now Harley Benton. 

I was told by one of the members here that the quality varied between brands, and that Eastwood and Revelation were the best-made ones in his (qualified) opinion. 

Now I see that Harley Benton is widely available in Europe (I'll be back there in a couple of months), priced very cheaply.

Does anyone know if Harley Benton branded mandocasters compare well in terms of quality with Eastwood and Revelation models? The Harley Bentons are so cheap that I could get one of them, upgrade the pick-ups with replacements from Almuse, and still be around the shop price of a Revelation, and much cheaper than an Eastwood. 

I know the sums of money involved are small, but this purchase is a real indulgence, so I'm not going to pay big bucks until I find out if I really have a place for an electric 8-string. And if I do, then maybe it would be time for a custom order. Hmmmmmmm

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## Soundfarmer Pete

Yikes!!!!!   Just looked up the HBMA500 and Thomann are now shifting them for £80.00 ($124).....I should be buying them in and upgrading them myself   :Grin: .....and I notice they`re not just sunburst any more!
As for quality, not sure but I notice they`re shown with the old style pickup and compensated bridge combo (having said that, contrary to what is often posted here, a few minutes work and a decent set of strings will result in absolutely perfect intonation)!
Eastwoods and Revelations are built to a similar standard and have individual bridge saddles...haven`t seen any of the others apart from the Clearwater, a quilted maple veneer finished example and the finish was pretty shoddy (and yet again, the old style hardware).
Hope this helps your decision.

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## Ron McMillan

> Yikes!!!!!   Just looked up the HBMA500 and Thomann are now shifting them for £80.00 ($124).....I should be buying them in and upgrading them myself  .....and I notice they`re not just sunburst any more!
> As for quality, not sure but I notice they`re shown with the old style pickup and compensated bridge combo (having said that, contrary to what is often posted here, a few minutes work and a decent set of strings will result in absolutely perfect intonation)!
> Eastwoods and Revelations are built to a similar standard and have individual bridge saddles...haven`t seen any of the others apart from the Clearwater, a quilted maple veneer finished example and the finish was pretty shoddy (and yet again, the old style hardware).
> Hope this helps your decision.


Thanks, Pete. I was pretty astonished by that price, too, though it's a shame to hear it means a lower quality bridge. Still, a very economical starting out point, eh?

ron

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## thistle3585

I've had a couple of those through my hands,  and I'd say that they are the better of the import emandos in that price range.  Their construction is much better than the mandobirds.  I designed a bridge for Eastwood but they decided not to use it due to cost.  Its available through moongazer music.  It drops right in to the existing holes.

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Dave Greenspoon, 

Soundfarmer Pete

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## crisscross

I ordered an HB-MA 500. I have a 4-string Kentucky that I really like, but to practice silently, I wanted an electric eight-string, so I tried the MA 500. When it arrived, I had to do some set-up work, adjusting the action at the bridge and the intonation. The saddle is still a tad too high, but I don't want to mess with it, so I bought a set od Pyramid extra light strings. Now it plays OK.
The two strings  of a pair are a little closer together than those on an acoustic mandolin.
As I said, I use this mandolin predominantly to practice at night without any amplification, but today I wanted to hear its electric sound. Somewhere on the Thomann website, the mandolin is listed a a "Bluegrass Series"-mandolin, so I recorded the chord changes of the tune "Going down the Road feelin' bad" and tried to come up with a solo that is as close to BG as I'm able to create and play one.
Amplified, the 4 additional strings don't make that much of a difference, to my ears it still sounds like a little guitar.
It has two pickups, but they are not too far away from each other, so the difference between the two is audible, but not that big,
Overall it sounds and plays quite nice and for 111€ is a nice entry into the world of electric mandolins, if you are not detered by the need to do some setup work.

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Dave Greenspoon, 

joni24

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## s1m0n

> I designed a bridge for Eastwood but they decided not to use it due to cost.  Its available through moongazer music.  It drops right in to the existing holes.


I`ve made my first foray into electrics with one of these.



Which has a relatively simple bridge. Your design (which I take to be this):



is more complex. Can you explain why it`s superior? What problem is the stock bridge likely to cause, and how does an upgrade fix it?

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## Mandobart

The advantage of the improved bridge is that the intonation of each course can be adjusted individually.  On the original bridge you can only adjust the "slant" of the saddle.  My Mandobird VIII came with the same type of original bridge and I could not get all strings intonation correct.  Got the upgrade from Tom at Moongazer and now the intonation is perfect.

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## lenf12

I have the Morgan Monroe version of this mandolin and I'm thinking of replacing the pickups. Any suggestions?? I had DiMarzio twin blade humbuckers in a Mann SEM-5 and liked them a lot. What else?

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## s1m0n

> The advantage of the improved bridge is that the intonation of each course can be adjusted individually.


How much does this matter if I rarely stray above the seventh fret?

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## Mandobart

> How much does this matter if I rarely stray above the seventh fret?


If the intonation is good for all open strings and every fretted note up to the 7th with the original bridge, in theory you're fine.  Because you're _never_ going to want to progress to playing above the 7th fret, and $45 is a princely sum compared to the cost of the instrument, or a boutique pick, or a set of flatwound strings, or a mandolin lesson, ......

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## lenf12

Here's a pic of the bridge on my Morgan Monroe. Intonation problems don't exist. The saddle on the OP's bridge is compensated and the fret board is flat so if the first 7 frets are good, I strongly suspect the next 13 frets are good as well. It's nice to have individual saddles for each course of strings but probably not so critical in s1m0n's case. 



Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## thistle3585

> I`ve made my first foray into electrics with one of these.
> 
> 
> 
> Which has a relatively simple bridge. Your design (which I take to be this):
> 
> 
> 
> is more complex. Can you explain why it`s superior? What problem is the stock bridge likely to cause, and how does an upgrade fix it?


Yes, that's my design.  The reason I believe it is better than the stock design is that it allows for better intonation and height adjustment than the stock one piece bridge.   Also, there is more adjustment in the intonation than the stock bridge which means you can experiment with different gauges including going to a lighter set.  The only thing I don't like about my bridge is the saddles.  Several years ago, the company that makes the saddle went to a "finer" thread so the larger strings don't sit in the grooves well and require additional slotting.  I like Len B.'s saddle design but don't like that the paired strings come through the same hole in the bridge which I believe allows the bridge to be pushed to one side when playing.  I don't really build bridges anymore other than my own personal use.  I may have some remaining stock if anyone wants one.  They may not be plated.  Tom at moongazer may have some too.

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s1m0n

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## lenf12

"I like Len B.'s saddle design but don't like that the paired strings come through the same hole in the bridge which I believe allows the bridge to be pushed to one side when playing." 

Hi Andrew, I hear ya, a string thru body with ferrules, like a real Tele, would seem to work just fine. But honestly, the saddles being pushed to the side hasn't been a big issue for me. The saddles are still pretty well aligned in the pic I posted above imho, in spite of the strings being on the left side of the adjusting screws. It's very stable and I play with a "light" picking hand so, maybe not the best design but a good, inexpensive compromise.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## thistle3585

If it works then that is great. I used to build a single  bridge that used an offset slot but had problems with it moving. It seems to work on guitars. Maybe it's the short scale. Did you make your saddle?

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## Verne Andru

> I have the Morgan Monroe version of this mandolin and I'm thinking of replacing the pickups. Any suggestions?? I had DiMarzio twin blade humbuckers in a Mann SEM-5 and liked them a lot. What else?
> 
> Len B.
> Clearwater, FL


If you don't mind using 6-string pickups, there are a ton of choices. I used a couple of Allparts strat-style blades in my Fender FM60E and quite like how they sound. From what I could gather, they're made by Artec [Korea] with Alnico magnets and are wound fairly hot. They come with 4 conductors so I've wired mine for out-of-phase and single/humbucker selections providing quite a nice range of tones.

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## lenf12

Hi Verne,

That's about what I want to do with my MM electric. I like the idea of having as much tonal variation as possible on such a short scaled instrument. On my Mann SEM-5, the DiMarzio pickups were wired for single/humbucker selections through push/pull potentiometers. It didn't have out of phase however but the range of tones was pretty good. With the Morgan Monroe, the pickups have a relatively low output (weak magnets?) so I usually run a pre-amp or a boost pedal. I'd like to upgrade to hotter pickups since the stock pickups are the major downfall of this mandolin. Thanks for your input!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## Verne Andru

> Hi Verne,
> 
> That's about what I want to do with my MM electric. I like the idea of having as much tonal variation as possible on such a short scaled instrument. On my Mann SEM-5, the DiMarzio pickups were wired for single/humbucker selections through push/pull potentiometers. It didn't have out of phase however but the range of tones was pretty good. With the Morgan Monroe, the pickups have a relatively low output (weak magnets?) so I usually run a pre-amp or a boost pedal. I'd like to upgrade to hotter pickups since the stock pickups are the major downfall of this mandolin. Thanks for your input!!
> 
> Len B.
> Clearwater, FL


No worries. Here's the quasi-build thread if you want some of the nitty-gritty:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ktop-make-over

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lenf12

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## lenf12

Thanks again Verne!! Looks like I complimented you (post #4) when you first posted that thread. Still very impressive imo.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## Verne Andru

> Thanks again Verne!! Looks like I complimented you (post #4) when you first posted that thread. Still very impressive imo.
> 
> Len B.
> Clearwater, FL


Right you are! Sorry for not noticing.

The one thing I'd change on that wiring would be to try and find a way to change the tone cap when switching from humbucker to single-coil. At present, there isn't much tonal variation between those two modes, and changing the caps would make all the difference. To do that requires a triple-pole-double-throw push-pull [which I don't think anyone makes], so the only solution would be to move that functionality to a separate TPDT switch [which are made], but that gets into real-estate issues.

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## thistle3585

I have the switch to do single coil/humbucker /out of phase.  Its an on/on/on switch.  That is the standard wiring scheme that I use on my instruments and have posted the diagram on this site in the past.  If you can't find a switch then let me know and I can send you one.

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## Verne Andru

Thanks Andrew. All the wiring diagrams and switches you'll find do as you say - split the humbucker to a single-coil. What they don't do is change the tone capacitor at the same time. This is necessary to get the proper impedance between the two modes and makes a world of difference in the tone between them. In most wiring diagrams, you're stuck with choosing a single tone cap for either humbucker or single-coil, which compromises one of the modes sound.

I can do it on a DPDT push-pull as long as it's switching one pickup. In that case it's easy to put pickup splitting on one set of poles and capacitor switching on the other. In this case I'm switching two pickups on one DPDT push-pull at once, so I need both poles for humbucker/single-coil splitting. One more set of poles - Triple-Pole-Double-Throw - would do the trick, but I don't know of anyone making TPDT in a push-pull. Lots of stomp and toggle switches, just no push-pulls.

There might be a way to do it by stacking capacitors on the DPDT switch, but I've not put time in perusing that. Capacitors connected in parallel are summed :: total capacitance = the sum of the individual capacitors. Theoretically I could use a .022 cap as the base and when the PP is set to humbucker, switch in a .025 [or another .022] in parallel, which should double the capacitance close to .047 needed for that mode. I'll try that next time I pull the mando apart.

The other issue is the difference in potentiometer values - humbuckers use 500K pots with .047 mfd caps, and single-coils 250K pots and .022 mfd caps. Still haven't figured a work-around for that short.

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## JeffD

> How much does this matter if I rarely stray above the seventh fret?


 :Laughing: 

Touché.

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## thistle3585

> Thanks Andrew. All the wiring diagrams and switches you'll find do as you say - split the humbucker to a single-coil. What they don't do is change the tone capacitor at the same time. This is necessary to get the proper impedance between the two modes and makes a world of difference in the tone between them. In most wiring diagrams, you're stuck with choosing a single tone cap for either humbucker or single-coil, which compromises one of the modes sound.
> 
> I can do it on a DPDT push-pull as long as it's switching one pickup. In that case it's easy to put pickup splitting on one set of poles and capacitor switching on the other. In this case I'm switching two pickups on one DPDT push-pull at once, so I need both poles for humbucker/single-coil splitting. One more set of poles - Triple-Pole-Double-Throw - would do the trick, but I don't know of anyone making TPDT in a push-pull. Lots of stomp and toggle switches, just no push-pulls.
> 
> There might be a way to do it by stacking capacitors on the DPDT switch, but I've not put time in perusing that. Capacitors connected in parallel are summed :: total capacitance = the sum of the individual capacitors. Theoretically I could use a .022 cap as the base and when the PP is set to humbucker, switch in a .025 [or another .022] in parallel, which should double the capacitance close to .047 needed for that mode. I'll try that next time I pull the mando apart.
> 
> The other issue is the difference in potentiometer values - humbuckers use 500K pots with .047 mfd caps, and single-coils 250K pots and .022 mfd caps. Still haven't figured a work-around for that short.


Its only a compromise if you believe it is a compromise.  There are so many ways to create different tones with an electric and I don't think its fair to say that a certain capacitor or a certain potentiometer must be used in a specific way.   Years ago, I sat down with an instrument and swapped out capacitors then did it again with different volume and tone pots and in many cases there were very minimal differences between some of the caps.  At least, not enough difference that a guy with a $150 emando could distinguish.  I think part of that is because of the short scale and limited voice of an emando compared to a longer scaled instrument like a guitar.

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## Verne Andru

> Its only a compromise if you believe it is a compromise.  There are so many ways to create different tones with an electric and I don't think its fair to say that a certain capacitor or a certain potentiometer must be used in a specific way.   Years ago, I sat down with an instrument and swapped out capacitors then did it again with different volume and tone pots and in many cases there were very minimal differences between some of the caps.  At least, not enough difference that a guy with a $150 emando could distinguish.  I think part of that is because of the short scale and limited voice of an emando compared to a longer scaled instrument like a guitar.


Not sure I agree with this. I wired a guitar so that it switched caps when the pup's split and it made a world of difference.

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## lenf12

> in many cases there were very minimal differences between some of the caps.  At least, not enough difference that a guy with a $150 emando could distinguish.  I think part of that is because of the short scale and limited voice of an emando compared to a longer scaled instrument like a guitar.


The short scale AND the distance between the coils reading the string signal. I think it's especially true with the blade type humbuckers made to fit in a single coil space i.e. strat style humbuckers. The individual coils are so close together that they're reading essentially the same signal off the strings. Switching between single coil and humbucking modes won't yield much tonal variation from an individual pickup. That's where your middle position, running two pickups, comes into play.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

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## Verne Andru

> The short scale AND the distance between the coils reading the string signal. I think it's especially true with the blade type humbuckers made to fit in a single coil space i.e. strat style humbuckers. The individual coils are so close together that they're reading essentially the same signal off the strings. Switching between single coil and humbucking modes won't yield much tonal variation from an individual pickup. That's where your middle position, running two pickups, comes into play.
> 
> Len B.
> Clearwater, FL


Respectfully, we're talking apples and oranges. The value of potentiometers and capacitors effect the impedance, resistance and frequencies of the signals being carried along the wires. The locations of the pickups and distances between them have no bearing on those factors - the tonal changes are due to the strings vibration and how that creates an electrical charge within the pickups.

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## DaveTrumpet

Hi,  Have read through this thread with interest. I have dusted off my Pilgrim mando during the lockdown and have been been enjoying it so much I want to keep practising. I bought a Revelation mando on eBay. Unfortunately I can't sort out the intonation. I can get it perfectly in tune on the open strings and at the 12th fret but it is way out of tune everywhere between the 1st and about the 9th fret. After that it improves up to the 12th fret. Does the bridge height need adjusting or perhaps the nut? I have played various fretted instruments over the years and the only time I have come across this was on a really cheap ukulele. Thats.

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## Mandobart

Dave - its likely nut slot depth, angle, or both that is causing poor intonation on the lower frets.

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## Ronny

I have a clearwater emando, and I'm very happy with it... In fact, I spend a lot of time on it (change the fretboard, the nut, the pickups, shield all the cavity, check all the wiring...) and it can be playable as soon as you are able of spending a lot on time on it...

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Verne Andru

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## Lord of the Badgers

Hi, when i spoke to Eastwood over their tenors (of which i currently have two), they pointed out the Warren Ellis ones are made in S Korea, and other models (my classic) in China. The quality difference is notable, and they pointed it out to me.... The warren Ellis is superior in most respects. The classic is badly wired, buzzes loads (it has humbuckers...). Most Classic owners have had to take them to get that sort of thing sorted. 

So check to see where the Eastwood is made

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## mandroid

Q:   How much does this matter if I rarely stray above the seventh fret?

Other than the premium priced Stevens  IDK about any builders of electrics limiting the fret count to have a neck  pickup further from the bridge..

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## Seter

I was pleasantly surprised by my Harley Benton 8 string guitar, the only complaint with it is subpar pickups. They seem to be good for the money.

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