# Instruments and Equipment > Builders and Repair >  "Bear Claw" spruce vs good straight grained spruce

## Jim Hudson

Does anyone care to opine on the differences to expect between figured "bear claw" spruce and a good quality straight grained spruce. The application is the soundboard for an OM. I was told figured spruce may be stiffer??? Or is the difference simply cosmetic? The goal is to achieve the best sound - deep, woody and rich, that will stand up to aggresive flatpicking. Cosmetics are secondary. Thanks for your help!!

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hank

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## Spruce

> I was told figured spruce may be stiffer???


Not necessarily...




> Or is the difference simply cosmetic?


Yes.

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hank

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## MikeEdgerton

It's funny, I would imagine you couldn't give bear claw spruce to Martin or Gibson back in the 20's or 30's. They probably saw it as defective. Now it's a feature.

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fentonjames, 

Jeff Mando

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## Oliver A.

It's like perfume. If it doesn't sell at $5 charge $50.

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j. condino, 

John Lloyd, 

Timbofood

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## Spruce

> It's funny, I would imagine you couldn't give bear claw spruce to Martin or Gibson back in the 20's or 30's.


Actually, _everybody_...
Up till the early 80's it was unsellable...
Enter Dana Bourgeois, building for Schoenberg Guitars, who built a run out of "BC" log, a fabulously figured bearclaw Sitka from the Olympic Peninsula...
Instant turnaround...    :Wink: 




> It's like perfume. If it doesn't sell at $5 charge $50.


Whether you like it or not, it is indeed _rare_...
One out of 50 trees has good bearclaw, and one out of 25-30 of those splits straight...
Do the math--it's hard to find and worthy of a good price bump...
(Not that I _do_)...    :Wink:

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michaelcj

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## Russ Jordan

here is my 000-21, 12 fret built by Gerald Anderson.  Gerald got the top from Dave Nichols

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addamr, 

Carleton Page, 

David Houchens, 

Dobe, 

Ivan Kelsall, 

John Lloyd

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## Oliver A.

> good bearclaw


 :Confused: 

 :Wink:

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Spruce

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## Ivan Kelsall

There are so many other factors to consider,that determining the 'effect' that one grain of wood will have against any 'other' grain of wood,could only be determined (maybe) by building 2 instruments _as absolutely identical as possible_ using those woods to hopefully hear any differences. Even then,it's doubtful that you would hear a difference that was 'purely' down to the wood grain.
    I did read a post on hear quite a while ago where the 'benefits' of Bearclaw tops were outlined, & i remember being pretty pleased with what was being said,as my Lebeda has a 'Bearclaw' German Spruce top on it - but i was also a bit sceptical. Recently,Lynn Dudenbostel said that Chris Thile's well known 'Dude' had a ''German Spruce'' top - like  the one on my Lebeda. However,my Lebeda has it's 'own tone',which isn't at all like the tone of CT's 'Dude',but it *is* a tone that i like very much indeed,
          Ivan :Wink:

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## Lord of the Badgers

Seems a strange discussion - every mandolin has its own sound surely - so how can you ever tell? lol. 
My Forster gzouk has bearclaw bits on it. It's interesting, as a nerd talking point, but it wouldn't have made a difference to me if it had all been straight grain.

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## Jim Hudson

Thanks to all, I know it is a question of individual instruments and their specific sound, just struggling mightily to decide whether to order the custom OM with bear claw or not. Russ, your triple-0 is gorgeous, one can only assume the sound is equally stunning? What wood does she have for back and sides? I love the responsiveness and rich sound of my Taylor 12 fret (all Koa). Slotted headstock? Spruce, I value your opinion, your comments are well taken. I have a quote from the luthier with the bear claw top which is within my budget but just don't want to value vanity over substance ...

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## Jeff Hildreth

German classical guitar maker Hauser often used, and preferred bear claw.

Puerto Rican guitar maker Manuel Velazquez , worked in the Hauser style also used, and preferred , bear claw.

When CF Martin IV asked the now defunct Acoustic Guitar Magazine discussion group to design the CEO-5.. bear claw  was suggest (by me) and adopted as one of the main features of the CEO-5.  Prior.. bearclaw was culled and considered "inferior".

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## Lord of the Badgers

I would say that it's obvious you're really into the idea of bearclaw - so why not do it? Better than to regret  :Smile:

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## Russ Jordan

> Russ, your triple-0 is gorgeous, one can only assume the sound is equally stunning? What wood does she have for back and sides?


Jim--I love this guitar.  Back and sides are Honduras rosewood.  I had purchased the rosewood and a red spruce top from John Arnold.  While at Gerald's I saw this bear claw sitka top and we traded.  This guitar really came alive when I put Martin Retro monel strings on it---wish they made a monel mandolin string!

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## Spruce

> I have a quote from the luthier with the bear claw top which is within my budget but just don't want to value vanity over substance ...


Out of curiosity, does your luthier value the bearclaw more than straight grained spruce?  A lot of them _do_.

Luthiers like to gripe about the pricing of tonewoods, but a lot of times _they_ are the ones driving the high pricing, and this is a good example...
(I don't charge more for bearclaw, for instance...)

Brazilian Rosewood is another example.  
It wasn't the tonewood folks that put that high value on a set of BR, it was the luthiers...
(...and _then_ tonewood suppliers followed suit...)

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Timbofood

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## oldwave maker

David Perino once told me he had sent Martin several sets of San Pedro river mesquite (prosopis velutina) and it exploded in their planer, maybe earlier thicknessing machinery was hard on figured topwoods? Keeping the bearclaw top on the left for a personal build, it just speaks to me. Only topwood Don Musser ever asked about buying back!

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darylcrisp

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## Spruce

> Only topwood Don Musser ever asked about buying back!


Blue Spruce by chance??
I don't know much about that species, but I do know that bearclaw is _extremely_ rare in Red Spruce for some reason...
It exists, but I've never found one...    :Frown:

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## darylcrisp

I read a few years ago a short article where Richard Hoover (Santa Cruz guitars) was asked about "bearclaw". He had a couple sets that were really full of the "bearclaw", much like Russ' Anderson guitar above(and Russ that is a beauty, would love to hear a soundclip from that), and he felt the sets he had contributed to a specific tone. A well known(to the acoustic guitar world) fingerstyle/jazz player (Eric Skye) had a SantaCruz built from one of the bearclaw sets and he raved about it(small body 00 12 fret). He owned other SantaCruz guitars as well, but loved the bearclaw 00 so much he had another built if memory serves.

it may take me a few days but I will try to find that specific article, it was quite interesting.
(now I need to go adjust kitchen cabinet doors-took a weeks vacation and redid our kitchen, looking forward to returning to my paid job Monday............)

d

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Jim Hudson

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## oldwave maker

Here's a closeup, pretty sure its Engelmann, discolored like a Mt. Wilson. Colorado log I used up years ago. Got a few bearclaw red tops from John Griffin at Old Standard a decade ago, but the most outrageously figured top in my stash is Sitka I got from you Bruce- thanks again!

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## craigw

On a cross country trip 3-4 years ago we hung out with Hans Brentrup in Minneapolis for a weekend. He had backed way off on mandolin building and I was able to procure from him some nice wood sets, among which was one of the most heavily bear clawed top billets I had ever seen. Late last year I used it on a 2-point mandola which I was fortunate enough to sell via a trade with Doyle Lawson at the Wintergrass festival in Bellevue, WA about three months ago. I sure don't hesitate to use bearclaw and really think it looks cool. This one was so heavily figured, though, that I thought the sunburst toned it down and made it a little more subtle. Here are some shots during the build and after it was finished.

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Ivan Kelsall, 

Jim Hudson

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## Phil Goodson

> ....--wish they made a monel mandolin string!


Here you go Russ:
Gibson Sam Bush monel mandolin strings.

Or other option:

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## Russ Jordan

Thanks, Phil.  Actually I'd like 'em with a fatter A string.  






> Here you go Russ:
> Gibson Sam Bush monel mandolin strings.
> 
> Or other option:

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## Oliver A.

I haven't used a lot of bear-claw so I couldn't comment on it's sound qualities as opposed to non-bear-clawed. My gut tells me that it would be nearly impossible to definitively attribute a characteristic sound to the bear-claw figure in isolation from all other factors. My experience tells me that factors such as strength to weight would be much more significant than the bear-claw figure in determining the suitability of any of the spruces for use as a soundboard. The individual maker is also a huge factor. Personally, I don't really like the look of bear-claw on mandolins or even guitars for that matter. That is just my own personal preference. If _you_ like the look, by all means, get a mandolin with a bear-claw top. The inherent quality of the wood combined with the makers skill will probably have way more influence on the resulting sound than the bear-claw figure, so if you dig it, no reason not to get it.

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## bernabe

> Got a few bearclaw red tops from John Griffin at Old Standard a decade ago


Finishing up an A style now with a Red Spruce top with bearclaw from Old Standard. Ordered some tops last year and it just happened to be in there.

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## sprucetop1

Here in Europe in the violin-making world the term "hazel spruce" seems to be used for spruce that exhibits bearclaw.  The German term is "haselfichte".  I'm not sure that the terms hazel spruce and bearclaw spruce are describing the same property of the wood, but suspect that they probably are.  Either way, many violin makers like spruce with the hazelling effect and use it.

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billhay4

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## Jim Hudson

So much great info. You guys are good! I'm going to discuss with the luthier now with much better info. The OM will be a cutaway guitar body with natural top finish. I love Craig's two point but agree that the sunburst slightly toned down the figuring. 

I think the decision will boil down to what individual set the luthier can find. To some extent, with a custom build, it is out of my hands and I depend on the luthier building an instrument he or she is proud to put their name on. I love the process of working with the luthier on a custom build but it does take away the advantage of listening to the instrument before you buy. As buyer my control is limited, having most control over the look, depending largely on my choice of luthier. I have and will continue to communicate the sound I desire but we all know such descriptions are limited. I am awed by how you guys take someones words and transcribe them into the bones of a great instrument.

Spruce, you are correct that it was the luthier who suggested the figured top. I do like the look, but the look is secondary. What seems clear is that a figured top, despite their rejection in the past, CAN sound as good as straight grained in the hands of a good luthier.

Oldwave, the top on the far left does have a wonderful ring and look to it! I can only hope my luthier can find one like it.

Thanks to all for the great discussion and info!

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## Spruce

> Here in Europe in the violin-making world the term "hazel spruce" seems to be used for spruce that exhibits bearclaw.  The German term is "haselfichte".  I'm not sure that the terms hazel spruce and bearclaw spruce are describing the same property of the wood, but suspect that they probably are.


I just ran "hazel" and "hasel" through an English/German translator, to no avail...
I've never known what it refers to...anyone?
In Italy, it's called "Maschio" (spelling?), pointing to the belief that bearclaw only appears in male trees...
Not sure about that one, either...    :Wink: 

I _do_ know why we call it "bearclaw"...
The cambium of a good tree looks _exactly_ like a bear has sharpened her claws on the tree...

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billhay4, 

darylcrisp

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## sprucetop1

I should be seeing a pro. violin maker later this week who refers to bearclaw spruce as "spruce with hazel".  This (highly skilled and experienced) maker was trained in Mittenwald, Germany in the 1950's.  I'll see if I can get further info. on the origin of this term.  For the moment, am baffled.....

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## Perilous Deep

Translated from wikipedia.de (usually quite reliable):

"The common name "Haselfichte" likely arose because the gently waving growth rings and the small, brown intrusions in the grain are reminiscent of hazelnut wood: the wood of common hazel (Corylus avellana) often exhibits moderate furrow formation on the surface of the wood. This serration, however, is not found in the cross-section (of hazelnut wood)."

A brief search didn't turn up any good images of the surface of hazelnut wood, but the description sounds very much like what Bruce posted above. Sounds like a plausible explanation of the name to me, but there's always a fair amount of cloudiness surrounding folk etymology.

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Ivan Kelsall, 

Spruce

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## MikeEdgerton

Growing up in Oregon we called hazel nuts filberts (a variety I suppose). I can't find any images of the grain that are large enough to show anything. However, it should be noted that every engineered floor plank manufactured with the Hazel name on it has a whole lot of bear claw in it  :Cool:

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## Paul Hostetter

I've known the German term haselfichte for a long time. It's simply the German term for what we call bearclaw. 

Stefan Sobell makes incredible guitars with bearclaw Sitka. He has a whole model designation for them, the Steinbeck, which is basically his Martin Simpson model with specific materials: Malaysian blackwood (a true ebony) back and sides, wengé neck, and the bearclaw Sitka top (from Steve McMinn). Stefan feels there's a density to the figured spruce that affects the response. I've known other luthiers to say the same thing. No way to know for sure, but he's clear that the bearclaw Sitka makes a sound like no other spruce. All I know for sure is that my Steinbeck is one extraordinary guitar.

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darylcrisp, 

Dobe, 

Ivan Kelsall, 

Jim Hudson, 

michaelcj, 

mtucker, 

Spruce

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## Paul Hostetter

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haselfichte

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Spruce

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## HoGo

I think it is the look of old dry branches of hazelnut tree that gave the name to the spruce. When the dry half-rotten bark peels off it leaves darker stringy pieces of cambium on the surface looking much like the haselfichte in the pic Bruce posted.
The wood of hazelnut is rather plain light colored with not much to see so no connection there.

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## James Rankine

I think spruce is a rather boring wood compared, to say, maple. I rather like the bear claw mark on my Tom Buchanan flat top mandola, though I can't say it played any part in the decision to purchase it.

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## MikeEdgerton

I felt compelled to post this picture of Spruce with Hazel. Carry on.

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bruce.b, 

Paul Hostetter, 

Spruce, 

Timbofood

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## Ivan Kelsall

Paul - That is the most sensational guitar top that i've ever seen !!!. :Disbelief:  I'm begining to love my 'Bearclaw topped' Lebeda mandolin even more,
               Ivan :Grin:

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## Timbofood

Thanks a whole lot MIKE!
Had to clean the screen, should have known better.

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## MikeEdgerton

My pleasure, really Tim.

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## Timbofood

One of these days we have got to meet! A night of swapping lies and bad stories with a couple of other mandolin nuts, Whee boy!

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## Bill Kammerzell

> Jim--I love this guitar.  Back and sides are Honduras rosewood.  I had purchased the rosewood and a red spruce top from John Arnold.  While at Gerald's I saw this bear claw sitka top and we traded.  This guitar really came alive when I put Martin Retro monel strings on it---wish they made a monel mandolin string!


Aren't the Sam Bush Gibson strings, Monel wound? Had four packs of these. Used them on all my mandolins and gave one pack away. Love the sound. Really bell like, especially on the high end.

https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/gisambumowom.html

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## Bill Kammerzell

Looks like Gibson discontinued Sam Bush Monel strings. Just bought some medium Monel Strings by Curt Mangan.

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