# RSS News Feeds > RSS News Feeds >  Ry Cooder on the protest songs of today

## NewsFetcher

From Mandolin Moments web site - Ry Cooder on the protest songs of today

Read article...

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## Mandolin Mick

I love Ry's mandolin work on Love in Vain by the Stones!  :Mandosmiley:

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## KanMando

Ry's new CD, "Pull Up Some Dust And Sit Down" was released yesterday.  Here's a link to "No Banker Left Behind".  Prominent mandola on this tune.



Bob

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## journeybear

Interesting if brief article. Ry makes some good points - no surprise there. Got me wondering, where ARE the protest songs of today?  There are plenty of issues that could be addressed in song, but either no one is doing this or none of them is getting airplay. Granted, there could well be a whole lot of them out there and I am just unaware of them, because I hardly listen to radio any more. Come to think of it, this is one of the down sides of on-demand radio - one will only hear what one wants to hear (or what the channel suggests is similar to that), and is unlikely to hear something new, different, and unrelated to one's predetermined tastes, a voice from outside one's comfort zone. For a protest song to gain an audience, and possibly change peoples' minds, it has to break through this dynamic of complacency. I don't know how this is done anymore, if people aren't listening, or if only to a protest song channel on satellite radio.  :Disbelief:  The answer, my friends, may be blowing in the wind, literally. But if people aren't listening, it would blow right by, into the sounds of silence. Are people too disengaged for protest songs to have any impact any more? Was that just a dream some of us had?

Just to reinforce the obvious, political discussions are not very welcome here, nor am I interested in them, nor discussions of any _issues_ which may be the subject of protest songs - unless it be indifference itself.  :Wink:  I am interested in the art form, and a discussion on the _musical_ merits of protest songs could prove interesting.

Also, there is a link from that article to a stream of the entire album. I may have to put that on a little later while I'm cooking dinner.

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## Mandolin Mick

Steve,

I remember in the `70's, how American Punk Rock was kind of a joke compared to British Punk Rock. The reason being that things were so much better in America than the UK (no offense to our British brothers), so the American brand rang kind of hollow.

Without getting political, things are a lot better than they were in, say the `60's, by most  anybody's estimate. Though there's always somebody with a legitimate ax to grind, maybe people don't feel a need to write those songs?  :Wink:

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## journeybear

I think there are plenty of issues every bit as serious as those facing us in the 60s and 70s, and some even more so. I think the underlying issue is indifference or apathy. Also, people seem disengaged, and though I see a lot of chatter on facebook about this or that, I don't see a corresponding effort devoted to action. Not that I have ever known how to go about getting stuff done, but endlessly commenting on what is wrong isn't going to make things better.

Yes, I know, I just did exactly that. Whaddayagonnado?   :Redface:   :Confused:   :Whistling: 

You are right, though, about the difference between American and British punk rock. Bands like The Clash and The Sex Pistols - at least early on - were addressing social and political concerns, while in America it seemed bands just had stylistic issues on their minds. I am no authority on this, and didn't listen to much of any of it, but that is the impression I got from what little  I did listen to. Those and other British bands were indeed the protest singers of their day. The band I have heard the most social commentary from in recent years is Green Day, and even if some may accuse them of selling out or going mainstream, they have had some interesting and insightful things to say and do so well. No mandolin, though ...

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## SternART

Did any of you hear the NPR interview? He talked about wanting to use his music more like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger etc. and has written a batch of tunes that deal with the times we are living in.  There was an article last weekend in the SF Chronicle  too. It talked about a RARE gig of his Big Band coming up here in SF, but I was too late to get tickets. He is really enjoying playing a mandolin built for him by Canadian luthier Michael Heiden these days!

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## Mandolin Mick

The Sex Pistols are actually what I was thinking about; in comparison to the Ramones. Yet, the Pistols were patterned after the New York Dolls ... I actually met the Dolls and Ramones here in Milwaukee, partied with the Dolls for whatever it's worth. But, that was another life for this Bluegrasser ...  :Smile:

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## Spruce

> Did any of you hear the NPR interview?


Here 'tis...
You can also stream the whole CD from that site....

Ol' Ry's is ticked...    :Wink:

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## Paul Kotapish

We're going to see Ry tonight at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. Flaco is rumored to be playing with him on this tour and Los Centzontles are sharing the bill. Should be a great night.

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## barney 59

Well you got yer Steve Earle, and yer Billy Bragg, Marty Stuart will occasionally do a song about the plight of the farmer or the working man. Has a T.V. show and reaches a large audience while doing it! Other country singers will do the same. Ryan Bingham singing about "Hard Times" etc. I've listened to some of the Raggae/Rap stuff that is popular with the young potheads and there are political themes buried in there. I suspect that you might find some of that in Hip Hop music but I doubt that I'll ever know.  Protest music never got much airplay,even Bob Dylan back in the day-his songs that made the radio were not his protest songs. Joanie's airplay was limited to old spirituals or more popular stuff like "The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down" no "Joe Hill".  With the exception of Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth" or Neil Young's "4 dead in Ohio" I can't off the top of my head think of any other "protest" songs that had major popular radio airplay. The issues are there and real enough. Way too many people are facing very difficult hard times economically. No one seems to be offering any solutions short of ruin. This could be a good time for topical songwriters to reappear, the form if it does appear may be quite different than what was before though.  
      Please, this could be an interesting topic and if I can constrain myself from going into a pinko tirade you can do the same. Someone is going to turn this into politics, shutting this thread down. We'll be back to talking about picks and strings!

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## Denny Gies

Yes, the NPR interview was good.  It was fun to hear him talk as his singing voice seemed quite different.

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## Jim Roberts

Rumor has it he is playing a Heiden F5 Heritage model...

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## SternART

<<    Rumor has it he is playing a Heiden F5 Heritage model... >>

Not a rumor!  Michael Heiden told me this back in June....... when he called to wish me a Happy Birthday!

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## JeffD

> I think there are plenty of issues every bit as serious as those facing us in the 60s and 70s, and some even more so. I think the underlying issue is indifference or apathy....


No I think things are polarized differently. Where as before a musician attracted a certain demographic and that demographic coincided with the political divisions along the same fault lines.

Today, things are so polarized in wackie ways, and so a performer can be assured of torquing off and losing almost half his audience no matter what he or she says.

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## Mike Pilgrim

Ry sings Woody.

Song starts at 1:00.

Flaco!

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## journeybear

> No I think things are polarized differently. Where as before a musician attracted a certain demographic and that demographic coincided with the political divisions along the same fault lines.
> 
> Today, things are so polarized in wackie ways, and so a performer can be assured of torquing off and losing almost half his audience no matter what he or she says.


I think you've got something there. There does seem to be a great divide between people or groups with differing opinions, and the level of disagreement I see in some "discussions" on facebook is disconcerting. Often it is little more than people shouting repeated rhetoric or espousing their personal agendas. I don't see a whole lot of suggestions of solutions to problems, but mostly accusations of blame, denunciations of the other side, or dismissal of the other's opinions or stance. That won't help anyone get anything done.

I still think though that there is an air of resignation underlying a lot of peoples' dissatisfaction, as if they feel powerless to effect change. I also sense a certain smugness, as if people don't care what happens to the rest of the world as long as they've got what they want. This "I've got mine" attitude flies in the face of the "let's work together" approach we really need.

I dunno. Were the important issues fifty years ago more clearly defined and easy to grasp than those of today? Or was I just fifty years younger and more naive and seeing things differently? I dunno. For example, there was a major war back then and a lot of protest songs about it; I don't recall hearing a single one about any recent wars. Granted, I don't listen to the radio much any more, and I'm not very social, but it seems I would have heard _something_.

I listened to the stream of Ry's album twice through while whipping up a pot of curry, and there are some good songs on there. I don't see any of it catching on with the general public - as usual with Ry's music, it is too bound up with the roots music he loves to be of interest to most people - but I give him props for trying. He has nothing to prove, nothing better to do than speak his mind, and if he wants to devote himself to this, I'm all for it. But if you see someone walking down the sidewalk listening to his iPod with his earbuds, you will have no idea whether he is listening to Ry. And even if he is, he is unlikely to step outside of the isolation/insulation of his personal space to engage you in conversation about it. Perhaps if you are a facebook friends you may read a comment about it later on your iPhone. Eh. I have no idea what people really care about any more.

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## JeffD

Well I think that the lines are not drawn where they used to be. It used to be petty reliable that a person of a certain age held certain views. Not guaranteed, but more likely than not. A group of music loving young people could be expected to be at least symathetic with a certain set of vews. There were others who disagreed, deeply and honeslty and probably as hotly as today, but they were a different age group and liked different music.

Today the fault lines run through the generations, and through the musical genres, through the economic layers of society, so that any given person you routinely run into, musically, educationally, or even your own family, could be someone with whom you would violently disagree if you talked (or sang) politics.

Best to keep a distance from politics, social criticism, etc., unless you know what your getting into.

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## JeffD

> . Eh. I have no idea what people really care about any more.


People hide what they care about because they don't feel like having to defending themselves to friends and neighbors all the time.  Its much easier to share when you can count on some sympathy.

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## Markus

Well, the radio [for the most part] has become irrelevant for most people. 

When I think of protest songs today, Steve Earle, Billy Bragg, Tom Morello[Rage against the machine] and the works of various `conscious' reggae and hip-hop come to mind. The first three, mainly ... given I've know of all of their work for long enough that they're on the radar.

And I guess it depends what you call `protest songs' ... I can tell you that if you're playing for a group of people protesting, nothing beats one of Woody or Pete's tunes. The emotional response, instantly people singing ... some of those old songs are just so well done, so universal ... that re-inventing the wheel is of no use. Certainly the whole songbook is not usable ... but this prior spring's protests here it seemed like a couple chestnuts were brought back and `worked'. I had the opportunity to play with a group of folks in the Capitol, and I'll likely never move people like that through music in my life again [nor in such an amazing building] - and Woody and Pete both provided tunes that lit up the crowd. 

In live context, people like covers more than originals :D

For new topics, there were quite a few songs about Katrina. I would call those protest songs of a sort, at least.

But as many mentioned ... internet/cable culture has made politics a third rail for many performers. I'm not a fan of how heated all such discourse is these days, and I don't see a lot of people risking fickle musical careers on political stances excepting patriotism.

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## journeybear

Thanks for the report from one very visible scene of protest. It occurs to me that some of the most enduring and effective protest songs are the ones not specifically about a specific person, incident, or situation (though Dylan and Guthrie did write some great ones about just that),* but about more general concerns, which can find application to many instances, and tend to resonate beyond specific issues. Songs like "We Shall Overcome," "We Shall Not Be Moved," "Where Have All The Flowers Gone," "Blowin' In The Wind," "This Land Is Your Land," and many others, serve a purpose of bonding people gathered together to demonstrate their beliefs, and are very effective in communicating solidarity, even though they address issues only in general terms. Some of these may not be the greatest or most powerful songs ever, but when sung by a large group, they have power and meaning beyond themselves. They may not have been protest songs as such, but they were used in this manner.

I grew up in New Haven in the 60s, where many demonstrations were organized during the anti-war movement and Black Panther trials, and these songs were often sung at the end of a rally to demonstrate a commonality of purpose and leave attendees with a feeling of accomplishment and a hope their efforts would help change matters toward their wishes. The sound of hundreds, even thousands, of voices raised in song together is a compelling force, one which hopefully was felt by those in power. Many have said that demonstrations such as this helped stop the war and bring about changes in the fight for equal rights for blacks and women, and music was a part of this. The whole world was watching, and also listening.

* I'm thinking of songs like Dylan's "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll," "Only A Pawn In Their Game," and later on, "Hurricane;" for Guthrie, "Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)," "Pastures of Plenty," "1913 Massacre" - well, so many of them, that they are almost more like reportage via balladry than protest _per se,_ but describe events that display what he perceived as injustice.

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## Markus

Very well put, that sense of community [partially due to familiarity] is part of those songs strength. In fact, I would say it is the positive images that make a song like `This land is your land' so powerful ... patriotism and happiness are tapped more than the underlying protest sentiment [of verses often left out except at protests]. 

There have been a lot of local, topic protest songs ... but so few have staying power or are truly catchy [or unique] - and it's become apparent that it's hard to portray a nuanced, complex sentiment in lyrics that doesn't distill a protest sentiment to a catchphrase or generalization that only references a small portion of the audience. 

Excepting protests focused on a simple, easy concept [against a war or single policy] thus Vietnam [or coal mining, Katrina,  etc] are far better suited to song than something that happened here that was stated in the media to be about one issue yet encompassed a lot more issues and people than the simple media portrayal lets on. In such a case, you would need more verses than Bob Dylan to include everyone's concern ...

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## SternART

> Rumor has it he is playing a Heiden F5 Heritage model...


He has a new Heiden........but looks like he went with his old F4 for the GAMH gig in SF.  (see other thread for photos)

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## Markus

> He has a new Heiden........but looks like he went with his old F4 for the GAMH gig in SF.  (see other thread for photos)


It's a beauty ... 
Photo from other thread linked here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonomap...7627567605834/

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