# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Tenor Guitars >  Electric Tenor Guitars, Power Chords and Scale Length

## Ed Goist

I am in the planning stages for a solid-bodied, electric, GDAE tenor guitar build, and I'm considering the options for scale length.

The classic trade-off, of course, is the enhanced fret-ability and playability of a shorter scale vs. the enhanced tonal benefits of a longer scale. However, many believe that the tonal benefits of the longer scale are all but lost on electric instruments.

Despite this, I have found that the longer scale length certainly helps with an electric instrument's Power, Sustain and what I'll call _"Shimmer"_ (that classic clarity, crispness, and 'bite').

Since I play mostly _"guitarish"_ Rock and Blues, this Power (especially on Power Chords), Sustain and Shimmer are more important to me than being able to play lightning fast fiddle tune melodies. So, I don't think a very short scale will work for me. However, I'm wondering about a scale length just slightly less than normal.

So, does anyone have an electric tenor in the 21" to 22" scale length range, and if so, how would you rate its tonal performance on Power Chords and rhythm lines on the low strings?

If I can make that pinky stretch just a little shorter great...But I sure don't want to lose that _Punch_ that comes with the longer scale.

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## rico mando

if you choose a shorter scale you could tune to g sharp to get the tension up to where the punch is or try heavier strings or both maybe more neck angle . the eastwood mandola is 19 inches buy one then resell it if you do not like it and call it a rental fee .

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## djweiss

I tune my Earnest Tenorcaster down a fifth (FCGD)....1) I like the lower notes than CGDA; 2) I have an easier time transposing up the neck than across strings (everything is the same as mandolin + 2 frets, i.e. an "A" bar chord is on the 4th fret instead of 2nd fret); and lastly, 3), if I want to play something in open GDAE like I would on mandolin, I use a capo and the scale length is suddenly shorter and easier to reach...

Food for thought...I did this on the tenorcaster after first having a 5 string archtop tenor tuned FCGDA (a fantastic Arrow Instrument).

-DJW

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## Jayyj

I made a solid body tenor with a 21" scale which I gig with pretty regularly. I use it generally tuned CGCG and it can sound pretty massive for power chords. My only complaint is it feels a little toy like to play, although fine if you're used to electric mandolins. I went with the shorter scale in order to make string bending easier, and so that I could open tune quickly mid set without fear of snapping the high string going up to A. I've just started a 23" scale build, so it'll be interesting to see how they compare.

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## Jayyj

Here's the 21" scale guitar.

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## Jeffff

Anyone who thinks the tonal benefits of a longer scale are lost on an electric instrument has never played a Tele with humbuckers. or P90's.

That 3/4 of an inch makes all the difference.

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## Jayyj

I'd be the first to agree that a Tele with beefed up pickups is a glorious thing, but there are plenty of great designs that work with shorter scale lengths as well. 

Having said that, my little 21" scale was designed with psychedelic jangle and Sonic Youth style drones in mind rather than meaty leads and power chords, and I suspect a longer scale around the 23" mark might work better if that's the goal.

Ed - what design do you have in mind for your tenor?

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## Ed Goist

Jayyj; I'm envisioning something with an undeniable Gibson vibe: Mahogany body and neck; double cutaway; a single, very good humbucker pickup (wired series/split/parallel) located closer to the neck than the bridge, and tuned GDAE. This instrument will be used primarily for Blues and classic rock, so power chords and meaty rhythms and riffs on the G and D string are essential.

My plan is for this to be my primary electric tenor, and to maybe keep my Warren Ellis in GDGD tuning for electric slide.

The more I think about it, the more I think I should emulate the 22 7/8" scale on the old Gibson SG Special and Les Paul tenors. Thoughts?

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## MdJ

Der Ed 

Just in case you did not see this - look 2-3 posts down

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ghlight=Carthy

Best

MdJ

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## Ed Goist

Hi MdJ;
Your ES 125T 3/4 is a beauty!
I think the scale length on these is 22 3/4". Is that the scale of yours?

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## MdJ

You are correct on the scale length
the  conversion came in under budget too....which was very nice.

Best

MdJ

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## Charles E.

Ed, here is an electric-power chord tenor........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Gibson-...item56494d854d

It might be a bit over your budget tho....   :Wink:

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## Jayyj

I think the Gibson style tenors will be ideal for you if you're looking for something chunkier sounding than the Warren Ellis. I'm working on an SG Junior tenor at the moment, using an existing unfinished body and making the tenor neck from scratch. 

It sounds like you have an interesting project in mind - I'll look forward to seeing how it progresses.

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## Ed Goist

Thanks for all the great feedback.

Gibson-style electric tenor it is, with a scale length of 22 7/8".

Here's some great feedback I got from Tom Molyneaux (of the band Spudgasket and tenorguitar.com):
_"...Now for the octave mandolin tuning you are using I would go as long as possible-whatever you are comfortable playing.  The Breedlove tenors have a 25+" scale length and sound great, but you may find this too long for you.  You could make it as long as 27" if you're a masochist, but I'd say at least 22 7/8" scale, which should handle it nicely..."_

I think I agree with this completely, especially for the type of music I play. When the scale gets much under 22.5", the G & D strings get thick and floppy enough that they lose punch and definition.

I'll be sure to post on the progress of the project as it moves forward.

Thanks again to all for the great feedback.

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## Charles E.

Ed, have you chosen a builder yet? I see you have a custom E mando.

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## Ed Goist

Hi Charley; I am excited to say that Max Girouard has agreed to work with me on this electric tenor guitar build.

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## 5thBeliever

I've got a homemade (not by me) 23" scale electric tenor, currently strung as an octave mandolin, which I'm really enjoying. I've also been playing around with CGCG tuning, which seems (at least based on my Wikipedia-based knowledge of power chords) perfect for playing power chords- root, fifth, root, fifth. Jayyj, I'm also into "psychedelic jangle and Sonic Youth style drones"- any advice for translating that sort of sound to the tenor/octave?

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## Ed Goist

> I've got a homemade (not by me) 23" scale electric tenor, currently strung as an octave mandolin, which I'm really enjoying. I've also been playing around with CGCG tuning, which seems (at least based on my Wikipedia-based knowledge of power chords) perfect for playing power chords- root, fifth, root, fifth. Jayyj, I'm also into "psychedelic jangle and Sonic Youth style drones"- any advice for translating that sort of sound to the tenor/octave?


Since you are already in OM tuning, GDGD also works nicely if you want a slightly lower voice (which will give the power chords a little more punch).
I plan on using this tuning for Blues slide...
Open = double power G, 
slide @ 2 = double power A, 
slide @ 5 = double power C, 
slide @ 7 = double power D, 
4-2-X-X (middle & index) = power E
Oh...I definitely see some swampy noise in my future. Nice!  :Grin:

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## Jayyj

The lipsticks on my home made tenor certainly have jangle, coupled with a Fender Princeton Reverb with plenty of sparkle, and a ProCo Rat for distortion. If you have a listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyKtfwHPXLU you can hear what sort of thing I'm doing with it - the main riff in the quiet bits is an acoustic mandola, then the lead part in the loud bits is the electric tenor in CGCG tuning. The CGCG tuning is pretty good for blending power chords and riffs, so it tends to be my most used tuning on electric.

Tenor works great for me with that band because there's so much else going on (std guitar, keyboards, piano) that it's really easy to make things sound muddy by adding an extra guitar, where as the tenor always seems to sit comfortably at the top without masking what the others are doing.

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## Ed Goist

Jayyj;
That clip is absolutely fantastic! Thanks for posting.
This is the 21" scale tenor you mention above? It sounds great.

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## Jayyj

Thank you! Yes, that's the 21" scale tenor.

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## ambrosepottie

Cool band Jayyj. Moody Manchester with a sparkly top end. Do you use acoustic tenors as well? I also hear cello or viola on some tracks?

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## Jayyj

Thanks Ambrosepottie! I have a 1929 Gibson TG1 tenor that I use for acoustic, as well as a mandola and viola. So basically anything that can be tuned to a C gets used...  

Ed, back to the scale length thing, I've been messing about with SG based designs and have eventually decided to go with 22" for the scale length. I definately want to beef up the 21" of my current electric but it's going to be a gig guitar and I use different tunings within the set, and the more I thought about it I just can't be bothered with constantly snapping A strings. So 22" it is. This is still aimed at CGDA or variations of, although I'm tempted to try stringing up with GDAE just to see how it works.

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## Ed Goist

Thanks Jayyj.
Every time I pick-up the Warren Ellis, my plan is to play it, then to change the strings to GDAE after the session. However, it always seems to impress me so much in its current tuning that I end up leaving it in CGDA. 
This is a nice quandary.  :Grin:

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## Jayyj

I'd really like to try the Warren Ellis out of curiosity but they're pretty hard to come by in the UK. I'd guess Warren uses GDAE, seem to remember seeing him with an Australian made tenor that was tuned GDAE a few years ago.

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## Ed Goist

Yes, Warren Ellis does play his in GDAE with string gauges 42-28-17-11. 
It comes in CGDA, with gauges 36-24-13-09.

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