# Music by Genre > Jazz/Blues Variants, Bossa, Choro, Klezmer >  Purchasing a bandolim or cavaquinho?

## SincereCorgi

Greetings, MandolinCafe choro experts- can any of you suggest a way to obtain a proper Brazilian-made bandolim or cavaquinho without booking a flight to Rio de Janeiro?

I have become very interested in choro music and am very seriously considering purchasing a bandolim and/or cavaquinho. The higher-end Giannini instruments seem to get cautious approval on this board and elsewhere but almost always with the caveat 'but there are so many fine Brazilian luthiers that you should consider purchasing one of their instruments instead'.

Does anyone here have any experience doing this? I was thinking of spending in the $700-$1000 range for the bandolim and maybe a little less for the cavaquinho. What tend to be the standard prices for such instruments? Has anyone had a satisfying experience with a particular luthier or his instruments? Is my budget unrealistically low?

Right now I'm playing on a MidMo M4 which pleases me very much (if that gives you any hints) but while it has a better tone for choro than a bluegrass-ier mandolin, I have an itch to be playing on the 'real thing'.

Thanks in advance for any advice- I've almost hauled off and ordered a Giannini cavaquinho a couple times but I'm forcing myself to wait for some sage advice.

Trevor

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## Jesse Appelman

About a year and a half ago, I bought a Bandolim Especial (rosewood) from Joao Batista of Sao Paulo. I paid $1540, plus about $140 for FedEx shipping to the US. 

It's a wonderful instrument - I've brought it to Brazil since then, and Brazilian players are always very impressed with it. Joao was very easy to work with - I paid him by credit card and he shipped the instrument right away, I had it within two weeks of ordering it.

The only caveat is that I'm not sure whether or not he speaks English - I only corresponded with him in portuguese, so that could be an issue.

Here's a link to the instrument on his website:
http://www.jbinstrumentos.com.br/index.p....emid=73

You can hear the bandolim in action on my choro group's new CD - check out http://www.myspace.com/grupofalsobaiano

Good luck!

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## garypaynephoto

I have had two very nice bandolims from a builder name Caio Caravelli. I did the order through a friend, Paulo Sa (http://www.paulosabandolim.com/), who is an excellent Brazilian mandolinist, and a big fan of Caio. I think a couple years ago it cost around $1700.00 with shipping. Feel free to contact me directly if you have more questions. garypaynephoto@mac.com

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## Jeff Hildreth

http://www.luthierbarros.com.br/


Just curious,  Cavacos are really different than a bandolim.... is it the music that attracts you or the instruments....

I am currently building a Cavaquinho for myself...
I was disappointed in a high end Brazilian unit and returned it.... workmanship and humidity cracking problems right out of the case... others seemed to like them so I won;t reveal the maker.

Incidentally the prices quoted in previous posts seem high .. unless I am totally out of touch.

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## SincereCorgi

> Jeff said: Just curious, # Cavacos are really different than a bandolim.... #is it the music that attracts you or the instruments....


That's an interesting question- I guess the music? I like choro music very much and part of that is the unique timbre of the instruments. I get a lot of pleasure out of just the 'notes' -- I love ragtime harmony, and the genres are clearly close cousins -- but my MidMo (which I like very much) doesn't have the characteristic dry chiming sound of a bandolim.

As for the cavaquinho- well, I already can play ukuleles with moderate proficiency, and figured that if I'm paying for shipping from Brazil I might see if I can kill two birds with one slightly larger stone. Those amazing Henrique Cazes videos on YouTube didn't hurt either. How much did the instrument you purchased cost, Jeff? I know you want to protect the innocent, but was it a private luthier or a certain giant Brazilian stringed-instrument company? 

Also, *thanks very much to everyone who is posting in this thread.* Right now I'm leaning toward contacting Jaoa Batista with some questions (hooray for Portuguese-speaking friends) but I'm going to wait a few months to make sure this is worth the money. So, please, I'm still all ears for any other suggestions or anecdotes.

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## Doug Hoople

In general, while both bandolim and cavaco are capable of the full range of musical expression, you'll find that the bandolim focuses much more on melogy, and the cavaco much more on rhythm. 

Both are also harmony instruments, but the harmony seems to be couched in terms of the primary function of each instrument. 

I think you'll find that your opportunities for melody will be much more constrained on cavaco than bandolim. On the other hand, you may not be as free with the bandolim to play rhythm. You can play rhythm on bandolim, but it's kind of a different animal. Hamilton de Holanda, at the Symposium a year ago, and probably a little tongue-in-cheek, frowned on trying to use the mandolin to play rhythm at all! #

My apologies if you already know all this. But if you're trying to make an either/or choice, these observations about typical use may help make that choice. 

In a perfect world, you'd just get both and have a blast playing everything!

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## SincereCorgi

Hey Doug, I read your account of your trip to Brazil with pleasure and, yes, I had worked out that the two instruments have different roles in a typical 'roda de choro'. So I guess you could say that this is definitely a 'perfect world' scenario where I was thinking of buying both the sports car and the pickup truck, so to speak. #

Incidentally, I did see in your diary that you were going to talk to 'Claudhino' about places to purchase good cavacoquinhos and a reasonable price- did that ever come to anything?

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## DavidLuthier

Hi, I`m also luthier and I only made mandolins up to now but I want to make a cavaquinho. If you are interested I can make a cheap price because it will be my first cavaquinho.

My email is davidsh@ibest.com.br

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## Doug Hoople

> Hey Doug, I read your account of your trip to Brazil with pleasure and, yes, I had worked out that the two instruments have different roles in a typical 'roda de choro'. So I guess you could say that this is definitely a 'perfect world' scenario where I was thinking of buying both the sports car and the pickup truck, so to speak. #
> 
> Incidentally, I did see in your diary that you were going to talk to 'Claudhino' about places to purchase good cavacoquinhos and a reasonable price- did that ever come to anything?


Glad you enjoyed the account. I still have a day and a half to recount.

I didn't talk to Claudinho about a cavaquinho. The trip was coming way too quickly to its final days, and I was still wrestling the the "Honey, look what followed me home from Brasil" conversation. 

Now I'm sorry I didn't. I'm playing in a Pagode band, which is mostly percussion and cavaquinhos, and I had a quick strum of a friend's. I was surprised how much more responsive it felt to playing rhythm, and it sounded great. 

I'm still wrestling with the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none thing, otherwise I'd be actively seeking to buy one right now. My guess is that there's a cavaquinho in my not-too-distant future. 

But I've also just started on on a fan-fret 10-string mandolin that my father-in-law built for me this summer, and it's all I can do to figure it out. 

An embarrassment of riches! Life is pretty good when these are the problems that we're trying to wrestle with!

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## Jeff Hildreth

The cavaquinho was from a well known Brazilian luthier... $1100 #US #

Note that the Cazes you tube videos were in the DGBE #tuning #not the traditional #DGBD #tuning. 

I built all the jigs, moulds #workboards etc for Cavaquinhos about 5 years ago #and just finished my first protoype body (I'm busy)..I'll make the neck over the winter or as I have time then #to work out the kinks and refine the process... #I have enough wood to build about 200 #cavacos #maybe more... most of it 20-40 years in my shop...

Aspiring adult prodigy

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## Brad Weiss

Here's another comment on this topic...

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## Al Bergstein

I have a builder friend who would like to know if there are any plans anywhere for building a decent bandolim. He'd be glad to setup his shop to do them here in the Pacific NW. He builds amazing guitars, and has a great shop to work from. He said if I got him plans, he'd be glad to tackle it. He's built mandolins in the past.

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## BlueMountain

Contact DavidLuthier (who posted above). I bought a very nice bandolim from him that he made, and maybe he'll sell you a copy of his plans. But you would be much wiser to buy one from him.

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## nhanduti

hallo,
I'm brasilian and I play bandolim (mandolin) and a bit cavaquinho. To buy a good bandolim you need to buy a Do Souto or a Giannini top model, but the best is the Do Souto,  that you can buy for about 1500US$. The Giannini is a bit inferior but is a very good instrument (I have one model ABO-3 1978 - out of production) especialy the top of line, solid brasilian rosewood and solid sitika top, like mine.
The cavaquinho the best is Do Souto too, Giannini is not good. You can buy from a luthier like Araujo also, he make bandolins too.  (about 700US$).
Do Souto was an old luthier that lived in Rio de Janeiro and their instrumments are always much sought because the higth quality of this. But there are rare and expensive too. They were made for choro.
Both, cavaquinho and bandilim, are used in choro, cavaquinho is best for acompanish and bandolim is best for solos, but we have - or had - very good solists and composer that make solos in cavaquinho.
I hope I've help you.
best regards.

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## marcos p

just to you guys realized what is cheap and what is expensive Tercio Ribeiro is around u$6.000 to U$7.000,00. Besides that you need a craftsman to achive masterpiece, as the name says the instrument in a way to achive a goal, and it`s all deppending of the player to reach 


- just to point the obvius, DOUG check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4bUmXbq-yo watch all but specially at 4:27

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## Michael Wolf

Thanks for the video-link Marcos, its a wonderful thing that we have so many splendid videos of Hamilton and others available on the net. Always a new inspiration.

I had the chance to play a Pedro Santos Bandolim recently at a dealer and I found it to be a terrific instrument. It was very well made, perfect playable, responsive and it sounded immediately like Choro. Very clear highs and also strong base, but not chunky, more airy. It had a very piercing, but to my ear still pleasing tone and wonderful sustain. You could play it very loud. 
The only reason I didn´t buy it then was this Bandolim from Switzerland coming in my way while I was trying to sell another mando to get "Bandolim-money".
I once emailed Pedro Santos and his Rosewood model currently costs 1700,-$. We communicated in English. Since Pedro has some illustrious clients, like Dudu Maia, this may also speak for his instruments.

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## Doug Hoople

> - just to point the obvius, DOUG check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4bUmXbq-yo watch all but specially at 4:27


Thanks for the link, Marcos! Great stuff, as usual. 

Of course, Hamilton was half-joking when he told us that the bandolim is not a rhythm instrument. 

I still smile when I think back on it. Here's how I recall the exchange. You might even remember it, Marcos. You were there, translating for Hamilton during class at the Symposium. 

I asked if we should try to play rhythm on the mandolin like a cavaquinho player would. Hamilton wagged his finger, shook his head no, and said the mandolin is a melody instrument. 

When I said, "But you play rhythm on the mandolin." He smiled and said, "Ah, but I play cavaquinho!"

He was half-joking, but, as I understood it, he was half-serious, too. 

I understood him to mean that we should avoid banging away on big chords the whole way through, and that we should master the rhythm patterns instead of just blindly hammering away in a fuzzy general rhythm. I also understood him to mean that the mandolin is noisier than the cavaquinho, and that we should try to keep a lid on that big sound to make space for the rest of the music and the musicians.

The video is a perfect example (which I'm sure is why you chose it!). 

In the whole 5-minute tune, there's only about 5 or 10 seconds (at 4:27) in which Hamilton strums hard on all 10 strings. In the opening, he's playing very hot extended rhythm, capturing the essentials of the harmony, but playing only on a couple of strings and/or playing highly articulated and very rhythmic double-stops and arpeggios.

Dudu has taught us to play rhythm on the mandolin more or less along the same lines, making sure that we're observing the underlying rhythm pattern, but spreading the load through arpeggiation.

That's a helluva lot harder than just strumming away, but it does sound much better. 

You guys make it look and sound so easy!

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## Al Bergstein

I also just bought a used bandolim, Joao Batista model, similar to Jesse's, built in 2000 from the guy at Carmel Music, who used to import them. I've not found any others on the used market and I looked quite a bit. It's been wonderful to play it. Paid under $1200 for it. Only thing about it I wonder about is how the neck is attached, if I ever needed to reset it, how I would get it off. But the tone is beautiful, loud, and most definitely a playable radiused neck, which I love. Some have commented it's neck is a bit cramped, but I've adopted to it quickly.  I would agree with Michael, when he says that they can have a "piercing" sound. The highs can be very 'brilliant'. Maybe too brilliant? 

If you really want to get one, contact Dudu Maia and head down to Brazil. He's an incredibly gracious person, as are all the Brazilian players I've met. He told me, prior to my finding the used Batista, that he would get me to a builder that was good and within whatever price range I could afford. And actually going to Brazil is probably worth saving up for. It's an amazing country. One that more North Americanos should become familiar with.

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## atomicrayco

I am also looking for a well made bandolim , thanks to all for the great information

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## Jim MacDaniel

I am looking for a _budget_ cavaquinho -- do any of the factory brands (Giannini, Rozini, etc.) make an inexpensive one that stays in tune and intonates well? (my two main requirements)

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## Tom Pinit

Hey all, sorry to dredge up a 9-month-old thread, but came across this while looking for info on Tone Gards for bandolims (anyone know if they fit or if I need a custom one built?). But I digress.

I lucked out and bought my used '94 Joao Batista rosewood bandolim from Pioneer Music Co. here in P-Town, I think it was ~ $850. The previous owner had it in Montana, let it dry out, and developed hairline cracks that needed some repair. Anyhow, I love the thing now and sold my Weber to buy it  :Smile: 

Has anyone had issues with customs and CITES (http://www.acousticmusic.org/CITES-and-ESA-sp-78.html), transporting Brazilian rosewood instruments back into the U.S.?  Seems like a dicey proposition, especially since my bandolim didn't come with any documentation about CITES status.  But I noticed some of you have traveled internationally with yours in the past.

**edited** The search function is my friend: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ngered+species

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## MandoNicity

Very interesting thread.  I too have been bitten a bit by the cavaquinho bug and am also interested in a budget model like Jim.  Seems it's either cheap #### off Ebay or expensive stuff I can't afford.

JR

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## Baskervils

I am a big Forro fan.  I purchased a Giannini GCSM10 EL Cavaquinho on Amazon last year.  The first one I purchased had some cracking around the pickup interface.  They accepted my return and my 2nd one was perfect.  

I recently had it set up, and I have to say that it's one of the nicest instruments that I have ever played.  The build quality and intonation are excellent.  I have Martins, Fenders, Gibsons and Yamahas that aren't this much fun to play.  I highly recommend it!

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## Baskervils

This girl is rocking the Cavaquinho:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Rs1kP5bTQ

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## Al Bergstein

Hey, if you like Cavaquinho, check this out...
http://www.youtube.com/user/esturdil.../3/Wdc8_DWHjYo 
and this...
http://www.youtube.com/user/esturdil.../2/4zs9cmyb798

my oh my

Now a year after buying my Joao, I'm still playing it daily. It's a great instrument, and has held up pretty well, with some minor issues. (Cracking nut needs replacement, and I do too though, looking to add a pickup to it), And yes, I would love a cavaquinho too, but life is short. I'll buy one someday, but for now, there is no reason a north americano can't play rhythm on a bandolim or mandolin. For cryin' out loud, this is the land of Sam Bush! Just do it! When you get to Rio, just lay back and drink when it's not your turn. They got some killer clear liquids down there!  A day with Caipirinha and you'll play anything they pass to you!

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## Mark Levesque

I bought a Joao Batista bandolim from Carmel  Music back in 2001 and have had no issues. 
We humidify the house in the winter which must help.

Here's an mp3 of what mine sounds like:
http://www.mandolincafe.net/mp3/levesque.mp3

Joao has written back to me in English when I have had questions.

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## Doug Hoople

> Now a year after buying my Joao, I'm still playing it daily. It's a great instrument, and has held up pretty well, with some minor issues. (Cracking nut needs replacement, and I do too though, looking to add a pickup to it)


Hi Al, 

It's your fault, actually. I resisted buying a bandolim for years, and wasn't convinced that I really wanted one. But then I played your Batista last April at the Port Townsend Choro Workshop. It was so playable and the sound was so nice, I determined to get one at the earliest possible. 

It wasn't until August that anything turned up in the Cafe classifieds, but then John Eubanks put his Batista up for sale. I couldn't line up consent in time from my wife, and his Batista sold, but he also had a Barros he was selling, maple back and sides, already wired with a Fishman SBT series pickup in it. On the strength of players like Pedro Amorim and Rodrigo Lessa playing these instruments, and John's observation that it was the equal of his Batista, I bit. 

Well, it's a beautiful instrument and I can't stop playing it. I get great comments on its sound from people who hear it, and it sounds as good amplified as anything I've heard so far. 

My only problem with it is that the bridge cuts through E strings like a knife, so I'm going to have to get it to a luthier to clear that up. No biggie.

You might include the Fishmans on your list of pickups to evaluate, Al. And let us know which way you decide to go when the time comes. 

Doug

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## mandolirius

Are there any North American luthiers making professional-caliber bandolims?

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## John Eubanks

Hi Doug,
I am really glad to hear you are playing the barros bandolim and enjoying it. I purchased the instrument in Rio from Rodrigo lessa and he assured me it was a great example of a Barros chosen out of a batch of 5 or 6. When I was taking a lesson from Rodrigo I played his 10 string and was immediately hooked. that is why he sold the Barros to me and why I passed it on to you. All of the bandolinistas I met in Rio were very helpful and  I am sure would help in any way they could with a bandolim purchase. I recommend working with Tercio Ribiero. Sorry to hear about the e strings. I don't think I ever broke a string on a job. I am sure it will be easy to fix. 
John

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## Doug Hoople

> Sorry to hear about the e strings. I don't think I ever broke a string on a job. I am sure it will be easy to fix. 
> John


Hi John, 

Yes, no biggie. Things like that creep into the best of instruments, and I'm sure the fix will be easy. I've actually gotten a little relief by putting a bit of pencil lead in the string slots, so the slots are probably just binding a bit. I'll let the "graphite" solution settle and see what happens. If I'm still breaking strings after that, then it's a trip to the luthier. 

In the meantime, since my return last August, we've been out twice or three times a week playing, a surprisingly regular mix of rodas along with one proper formal gig, a film festival gala. The Barros has seen a lot of playing time, and lots of people are saying good things about what they're hearing. It may be the only proper bandolim in all of New Zealand, so it gets a lot of attention from the Brazilians who come in to hear us play. It has the unmistakable sound of home, even in my hands.

Thanks again, John! It's real joy.

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## Jim Garber

So, what happened to Joao Batista? His web site is no longer live. Is he still building?

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## mandolirius

> Are there any North American luthiers making professional-caliber bandolims?


I'm guessing not. I'm interested in a bandolim but have no idea where to start looking. Because of heavy customs and import duties to Canada, I'd prefer not to have to import an instrument from Brazil.

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## Al Bergstein

Doug, glad I could contribute to the delinquency of a minor key. As to your e string breaking, what size strings do you use? I've not broken any e's or others. Got space down there if Megan and I decide to take a trip to NZ this winter? 

As to finding a builder of a bandolim up here, good luck. My buddy Dave Llewellen who builds outrageously good guitars wanted to build a bandolim, but couldn't find any plans anywhere. If you wanted to contact him, he'd try it based on my bandolim's measurements. But I would just make the efforts to find a Portuguese speaker and communicate directly with someone down in Brazil. The cost of building here would be much higher than there.  Barring that, jump on a plane. It's a fun place to go and have a great excuse!  

Since Joao seems to have dropped off the radar, I would go with dudu's maker. Not sure what the prices might be, but Dudu is a great guy, very accessible, speaks English and can probably point you in the right direction for the price you want to pay. And he gives great lessons over the Internet!  Or try these....http://www.bandolim.net/luthiers

I've give the Fishman's a try, Doug. it was funny, a famous british mandolin player  told me that when he visited the Rigel shop, the actual pickups they were using were built from Radio Shack parts. Not sure this is real, but apparently the pickups weren't very fancy, but did the job just fine! 

Hope to see you all next April at the next Choro workshop in Port Townsend at Centrum. We are working on making it even better than last year, which was more fun than anyone should have. Met with the guys  last week to discuss plans for the workshop. Bring all your bandolims!

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## Doug Hoople

> Doug, glad I could contribute to the delinquency of a minor key. As to your e string breaking, what size strings do you use? I've not broken any e's or others. Got space down there if Megan and I decide to take a trip to NZ this winter?


We've got a spare bedroom, Al, so let us know when you're coming. Try to be here on a Tuesday so you can come to the roda at Estadio!

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## Jim Garber

> Since Joao seems to have dropped off the radar, I would go with dudu's maker. Not sure what the prices might be, but Dudu is a great guy, very accessible, speaks English and can probably point you in the right direction for the price you want to pay. And he gives great lessons over the Internet!


It took me a little while to find, but Dudu's luthier is Pedro Santos. Has anyone dealt with him and know of the range of price? Also, on his site he mentions back woods: Fundo de jacarandá filetado and Fundo de jacarandá. Anyone know what the difference is?

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## Michael Wolf

I once mailed Pedro and asked him about prices. He replied in English, so no language-barrier. The price of a rosewood bandolim was about 1700,- Dollar. I played one of his mandos that was in a shop here in Germany and it was a wonderful instrument, sounded like choro as you might guess. It was the loudest instrument in the shop as well. The were Flatbush, Weber and other arch top mandos.
Well, it was certainly a total different sound and not really comparable. The highs of the bandolim were so aggressive that the hurt the ears a bit, but that´s certainly good for the roda.
I would have bought that Santos, but while trying to sell one of my archtops to free some money that Bandolim from Switzerland was offered to me and I swaped the archtop for it.

Btw.: It looks like DuDu is also playing a Ribeiro besides his Santos.

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## Jim Garber

It sounds like Pedro Santos is in the same price realm as most of the other makers. Ribeiro seem sot be way above them -- sort of the Dude/Gilchrist/Monteleone of Brazil.

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## Al Bergstein

Just got my reply from Dudu. Here's his recommendation:

"I highly recommend luthier Pedro Santos, I play his instrument in the Caraivana videos. His website is www.pedrosantos.com.br . He's a real nice guy and his prices are quite reasonable."

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## Doug Hoople

> I'm guessing not. I'm interested in a bandolim but have no idea where to start looking. Because of heavy customs and import duties to Canada, I'd prefer not to have to import an instrument from Brazil.


Probably the best thing to do is wait until something comes up on the Cafe Classifieds. They don't come up often, but when they do, they're usually good. I know of someone who bought her Tercio Ribeiro 10-string that way at a very reasonable price. There were two quality bandolins that came on last August. It just takes a little patience. It's a small community, so the buyers and sellers generally know each other from hanging out here, and you'll probably get a good sense of whether or not the instrument is good before you have to commit.

The other thing you might do is have an instrument built in Brazil, have a friend in Seattle or Bellingham buy it on your behalf, and go pick it up directly. If I've just suggested something illegal, then ignore the suggestion. 

Or, just pay the duty. It's around 6%, right? A bandolim is not that expensive. You're not buying a Loar, and you're not paying the labor for all those curly-cues, after all. You're going to let $100 or so prevent you from getting your hands on one of these beautiful things?

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## Jim Garber

Seems like there is a path strewn with dead links... what is the story with brazmus.com?

Just another question: how do Barros bandolims compare with, say, Batistas? Also, is there a general preference for rosewood vs. maple?

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## mandolirius

> Probably the best thing to do is wait until something comes up on the Cafe Classifieds. They don't come up often, but when they do, they're usually good. I know of someone who bought her Tercio Ribeiro 10-string that way at a very reasonable price. There were two quality bandolins that came on last August. It just takes a little patience. It's a small community, so the buyers and sellers generally know each other from hanging out here, and you'll probably get a good sense of whether or not the instrument is good before you have to commit.
> 
> -I've been watching.
> 
> The other thing you might do is have an instrument built in Brazil, have a friend in Seattle or Bellingham buy it on your behalf, and go pick it up directly. If I've just suggested something illegal, then ignore the suggestion. 
> 
> -Nope, it's not illegal and that may be the way I have to go in the end.
> 
> Or, just pay the duty. It's around 6%, right? A bandolim is not that expensive. You're not buying a Loar, and you're not paying the labor for all those curly-cues, after all. You're going to let $100 or so prevent you from getting your hands on one of these beautiful things?


I wish it was 6%. I couldn't find out the rate online, but it's a pretty specific question that will likely require a phone call. Based on some other items I did find, 14-16% may be closer to the mark. Plus there are the broker fees and they are substantial in Canada. There will be the combined federal and provincial taxes as well.

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## Jesse Appelman

Here's Joao Batista's website - seems live to me: http://www.jbinstrumentos.com.br/jb/

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## Jim Garber

> Here's Joao Batista's website - seems live to me: http://www.jbinstrumentos.com.br/jb/


Wow, that is amazing. he is unsearchable for some reason. If I put the URL without the jb at the end it doesn't come up. Good work.

Funny site tho... I tried the contact form and I am not sure if it worked. I may have his email address at home since I contacted him a few years ago when I found that Carmel Music no longer sold his instruments.

Jim

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## Baskervils

Often with my Brazilian searches, search engines will disregard the main country site if it finds listings for products in English.  

Finding Brazilian anything, especially records (I collect Forro records), can take some finaglingng.

Rob

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## Paul Kotapish

Does anyone have experience with the instruments of J.P. Charles, the French bandolim player and luthier living in Bahia? His archtop bandolims look and sound lovely, but I've never seen one.

http://www.jpcharlesluthier.com/eng01.htm

Is anyone else building archtops in the Brazilian style?

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## Jim Garber

Paul: where did you hear one of Charles' instruments? It looks like Ted Eschliman and Gary Payne who both post here at the Cafe own his instruments and are pictured in his Gallery pages. The first instrument i saw was at RF Charle's site in France and was an acoustic-electric mandolin wit5h a very graceful style. He makes flattop bandolims as well as arched ones.

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## Jim Garber

Anyone have email address for Joao Batista or have any idea of what his instruments cost today?  I don't think that the contact form on his site works.

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## Jim Garber

An interesting Del Vecchio bandolim on eBay. I know Del Vecchio only as the makers of resonator guitars. Anyone familiar with these bandolims?

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## Baskervils

I think that the Del Vecchio on ebay was a student fairly inexpensive student model from Brazil, which usually costs around $150 there.  It did come with a nice case!  You don't see them in the States too often.

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## Baskervils

I would be curious to know what a top of the line Batista Cavaquinho would run.  Camel says that they are $850 and up.  I'd love to know what the up is!

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## Jim Garber

Is this a DelVechhio on the cover of Jacob's album?

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## Jim Garber

Here is a larger scan.

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## Al Bergstein

I don't know, but Jim I tried to reply to your email and your mailbox is full. Empty out some messages (G).

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## Jim Garber

I deleted some msgs. Oh, I do see that I got a msg telling me that the mailbox is full. Sorry.

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## Brad Weiss

This looks like a pretty good deal. Someone stop me . . . please . . .!
 :Frown:  :Disbelief:  :Crying:

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## Jim Garber

Yeah, I have been looking at that one since it was listed on the Cafe. I was waiting for someone else to snatch it away from me.

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## Paul Kotapish

[QUOTE=Jim Garber;842185]Paul: where did you hear one of Charles' instruments? [QUOTE]

I'm not sure where I first heard of them, but I've been ogling them for years. They remind me a bit of Stefan Sobel's elegant English mandolins in shape and aesthetic, and I'm curious to know whether the archtop thing is popular with the choro enthusiasts.

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## Baskervils

There is a student model Giannini cavaquinho on ebay right now.  The sound of mine (not the one on eBay) is a bit boxy, but the build quality / intonation are OK.  It comes with a decent built in pickup / tuner.  It's a good student cavaco.  The auction ends October 8th.

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## Jim Garber

It always helps us if you post a link. There are actually two Giannini cavaquinhos on eBay:

GCSM10EL - it says professional but this price is for a new one

GCSE17 CT EL This one has a cutaway. 

Does anyone know about these?  Marques rosewood

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## Baskervils

> It always helps us if you post a link. There are actually two Giannini cavaquinhos on eBay:
> 
> GCSM10EL - it says professional but this price is for a new one
> 
> GCSE17 CT EL This one has a cutaway. 
> 
> Does anyone know about these?  Marques rosewood


GCSE17 CT EL (cutaway) - This was the used one I was referring to.  It's a cheap one, but a good starter cavaco.  The new Gianinni is actually a very good instrument for the price.

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## Jim Garber

BTW what is the difference in the name: cavaco or cavaquinho?

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## delsbrother

I thought it was like uke/ukulele. But I could be wrong.

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## Baskervils

> I thought it was like uke/ukulele. But I could be wrong.


Exactly - cavaco/cavaquinho = quick + dirty / prim + proper.

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## delsbrother

OK, next question: how do you say mandola and mandocello in Portuguese?  :Smile:

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## Jim Garber

> OK, next question: how do you say mandola and mandocello in Portuguese?


According to Google Translate:


> OK, a pergunta seguinte: como vocês dizem mandola e mandocello em Português?

----------


## delsbrother

Hmm..

Doing some digging into the personnel in this photo (discussed in the Gelas mandolin thread) I did some Googling for the two seated players: Luiz Pinto da Silva and José Alves de Lima. I found at least one Portuguese document online that uses says one of the players played "bandola". The English version of the same document uses "mandola" as a translation, but I'm not sure if they're technically the same instrument. It makes sense, though (bandolim-mandolin/bandola-mandola). So now all I need is the Portuguese word for "cello".  :Smile:  

I guess more interesting would be what exactly the role of the bandola player was in choro - simply a lower pitched bandolim? I'm trying to imagine what that would sound like.

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## Jim Garber

Then there is Marilynn Mair'sd article in which she also says:



> The earliest identified bandolimist is José Alves, who played bandolim in 1919 for Pixinguinha's first "Os Oito Batutas" (The Eight Hotshots). Also in the band was Luis de Olivera who played bandola.


Perhaps she can shed some light on that instrument?

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## delsbrother

It's funny how these things connect.. If that MM quote is true, that means the earliest known bandolim (and/or bandola) might have actually been a Gelas! Those pictures are from the 'teens.

It's hard to tell about the bandola, though - there's another South/Central American instrument called that and I think it is tuned differently.

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## Jim Garber

Nice picture of a Rogerio Santos bandolim on the Phoenix Museum thread.

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## nickster60

I dont know anything about these instruments but the is one in the Fort Myers Fl Craiglist that looks a lot like one of these

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## Jim Garber

> I dont know anything about these instruments but the is one in the Fort Myers Fl Craiglist that looks a lot like one of these


Sorry... are you referring to cavaquinhos or bandolims and does this one look like one of which? A link might help...   :Smile:

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## Mandolin Mick

Hey Jim!

Went to see the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra on Saturday and Linda Binder brought up your name to me!  :Smile:

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## Jim Garber

Uh-oh! I am in trouble now. She is quite the musician and nowadays plays her 10-string Ribeiro bandolim which I had a smnall part in her getting a few years back.

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## Jim Garber

> GCSE17 CT EL (cutaway) - This was the used one I was referring to.  It's a cheap one, but a good starter cavaco.  The new Gianinni is actually a very good instrument for the price.


Actually Amazon has that handmade one cheaper than the ebay seller.

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## Mandolin Mick

That's why she brought you up. She was showing me her bandolim. She offered to let me play it after the concert but I had to get going.

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## nickster60

My browser would let me copy the link it is having a cow lately. It looks like the round one and listed as a mandolin it looks like a decent instrument. Sorry about the link but for $225.00 it may worth a look and it has been on there for a long time.

Correction it is done have its cow
http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/msg/1929501811.html

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## Jim Garber

Yes, and getting back to the topic at hand... I was talked out of buying a good quality bandolim by a wise denizen of this thread. First off I don't have anyone to play choro and second, I can certainly play a std mandolin of which I have quite a few and third, should I ever get deep into, I suppose I can find one somewhere or order one. of course, there is always endless MAS and the need for yet one more different sound....

----------


## Jim Garber

> My browser would let me copy the link it is having a cow lately. It looks like the round one and listed as a mandolin it looks like a decent instrument. Sorry about the link but for $225.00 it may worth a look and it has been on there for a long time.
> 
> Correction it is done have its cow
> http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/msg/1929501811.html


It looks like a German or eastern European made Portuguese style instrument. Might not be Brazilian. It might be worth $225.

This eBay mandolin looks very similar from the front. Someone wrote to the seller that it was German-made from the 1903s. The back on the CL one looks much nicer and the price is much, much nicer. However, this confirms that this is not a bandolim in a Brazilian sense.

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## Jim Garber

> This looks like a pretty good deal. Someone stop me . . . please . . .!


Brad (or anyone else) did you buy that beauty of a Batista on Elderly? I had it tabbed on my browser for days and today it finally said "no longer available."

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## lusophile

Among budget-priced cavaquinhos, is Giannini supposed to be better than Marques, or vice versa? There's a new Marques Paulistinho TMC 0817 with rosewood back and sides and cedar neck. Handmade, the ad says. $249 + shipping. At Amazon there's a Giannini GCSM 4 with Imbuia back and sides and cedar neck. $229 + shipping. 

I did find a Brazilian web site that offers the Marques for 328 reais, which converts to $214US. Of course I'd have to pay shipping and duties. But if I found one of these in a US shop, wouldn't I pay much more than that?

I'm thinking I'd be more comfortable with the Marques from eBay, unless someone warns me that Marques is like the Sears Silvertone of cavaquinhos.

TIA for any thoughts on this.

----------


## Baskervils

> Among budget-priced cavaquinhos, is Giannini supposed to be better than Marques, or vice versa? There's a new Marques Paulistinho TMC 0817 with rosewood back and sides and cedar neck. Handmade, the ad says. $249 + shipping. At Amazon there's a Giannini GCSM 4 with Imbuia back and sides and cedar neck. $229 + shipping. 
> 
> I did find a Brazilian web site that offers the Marques for 328 reais, which converts to $214US. Of course I'd have to pay shipping and duties. But if I found one of these in a US shop, wouldn't I pay much more than that?
> 
> I'm thinking I'd be more comfortable with the Marques from eBay, unless someone warns me that Marques is like the Sears Silvertone of cavaquinhos.
> 
> TIA for any thoughts on this.


I have never played the Marques.  I have the student model Giannini Cavaquinho GCSM and it's decent.  I bought it on Amazon last month.  The intonation is good.  I purchased the EL version that has built in pick up and tuner.  I compare it favorably to a good Yamaha student model guitar.  It's not like owning a Martin pro guitar, but for a cheap instrument, it plays well and stays in tune.

I also have the hand built Giannini GM10, which is awesome.  It has a stunning tone and was a steal at $650 when I bought it.  It was worth the $$$ any day of the week.  That one has a rosewood back and sides.  It smells amazing, too.  Rosewood is like love potion.

----------


## Jim Garber

I just received this "bandolim kit" in the mail today. It is marked from a well-known music store in Rio, Casa Oliveira. It looks like it was a little more than a tourist model -- looks like decent quality -- no laminates, as far as I can tell. The neck is nice mahogany and finished quite nicely and the spruce(?) top wood also looks like in perfect shape. The tuner buttons are gone but I actually have a set that will fit or I can replace the buttons. There are some nice details such as herringbone binding around the edge and some decorative lining the fretboard and the headstock.It also has a nice bone bridge. The worst part is the back which has multiple cracks and one half is split off altogether. OTOH it looks like beautiful Brazilian rosewood and would not be so hard to fix esp since it is pretty much apart already.

I was trying to see if there was a way to get in touch with someone at that store which evidently still is in business and find out something about this bandolim. In any case, I know it is prob no Batista or Ribiero but might be a decent starter instrument.

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## Doug Hoople

> So now all I need is the Portuguese word for "cello".  
> 
> I guess more interesting would be what exactly the role of the bandola player was in choro - simply a lower pitched bandolim? I'm trying to imagine what that would sound like.


Sorry, I'm late to the conversation. 

I don't believe that there is any such thing as a "bandocello" in common use in Brazil. Even the bandola is relatively uncommon, although the C string is definitely on its way back with the resurgence of 10-stringed bandolins. 

A couple of thing come to mind. 

1) The tenor guitar seems to occupy the slot that we normally associate with octave mandolin and mandocello, although to completely different effect. The tenor guitar is, for those who don't know, essentially an octave mandolin with single-string courses. Jacob himself played violão tenor, most notably on 'A Ginga do Mané,' and there's a small, but dedicated following for the instrument, both in Brazil and around the world. 

2) Mike turned Hamilton on to the octave mandolin a few years back, and loaned or gave him a Flatiron to take home to Brazil. Hamilton hadn't had a whole lot of exposure to lower-register mandolins, but he loved it. A couple of years later, when visiting Tercio Ribeiro's workshop in Rio in 2008, we got to see and play the newly-completed custom octave mandolin that Tercio had built for Hamilton on commission. We were really lucky in our timing. A week earlier, and it wouldn't have been ready to play. A day or two later, and it wouldn't have been there. I think Hamilton was supposed to pick it up the next day. A beautiful instrument with a really lovely sound.

I'm pretty sure that even the octave mandolin is an extreme rarity in Brazil, and that mandocellos are an almost complete unknown. 

btw, a cavaco and a cavaquinho are one and the same thing. The "quinho" is an affectionate diminutive, and means absolutely nothing. A cavaquinho is not, for example, a delightfully cute little cavaco. It's a little like choro and chorinho. From what I can tell, there's not an ounce of difference.

----------


## delsbrother

> 1) The tenor guitar seems to occupy the slot that we normally associate with octave mandolin and mandocello, although to completely different effect. The tenor guitar is, for those who don't know, essentially an octave mandolin with single-string courses. Jacob himself played violão tenor, most notably on 'A Ginga do Mané,' and there's a small, but dedicated following for the instrument, both in Brazil and around the world.


Thanks for the input, Doug! So are you saying the violão tenor as played in Brazil is tuned GDAE and not CGDA? I have searched in vain for a method book (supposedly) written by Garoto and I was under the impression it was written in CGDA. I've seen the cover, and it says it's also appropriate for "F Banjo" which I'm assuming is _Frevo_, or perhaps _Forro_?

(sorry for hijack of a hijack)

----------


## Doug Hoople

> Thanks for the input, Doug! So are you saying the violão tenor as played in Brazil is tuned GDAE and not CGDA? I have searched in vain for a method book (supposedly) written by Garoto and I was under the impression it was written in CGDA. I've seen the cover, and it says it's also appropriate for "F Banjo" which I'm assuming is _Frevo_, or perhaps _Forro_?
> 
> (sorry for hijack of a hijack)


Very good question, Darrell. You'd know better than I would. I just spotted a thread on the topic you chimed in on in 2005! 

I always assumed that, because of the scale length (similar to guitar and octave mando), that it would be GDAE, but that could be wrong. CGDA seems to be more common in general, and your Garoto book would suggest that it was common enough. Changing string gauge can do a lot to make things workable, so it's hard to say.

Obviously, there's an answer to this question, and that is to listen to a couple recordings. Listening for range and for open strings should provide definitive answers. If I were home, I'd be on it, but I'll have to wait until later in the day.

----------


## delsbrother

LOL, yeah, I know most of these questions would be answered very easily by just playing and listening instead of endlessly trolling the 'net... Well, that and the fact that 9 times out of ten I'm posting from somewhere other than where my instruments are..  :Whistling:

----------


## Baskervils

> LOL, yeah, I know most of these questions would be answered very easily by just playing and listening instead of endlessly trolling the 'net... Well, that and the fact that 9 times out of ten I'm posting from somewhere other than where my instruments are..


I live in New York City, which has a big Brazilian population, and as far as I know, there is no place to try out a cavaquinho or bandolim in the city.  Even if there were, you'd probably have one brand to chose from.  

Maybe some of the charm behind the instrument is that it feels unusual, rare or special in North America.

----------


## Jim Garber

In a quest to find more information about my Casa Oliveira bandolim, I found this Brazilian bandolim site. For those who want to venture into the mostly Portuguese forum it could be interesting. I did find a few folks who do speak English and used Google Translation otherwise. I may explore it some more. For some reason, Translation works nicely on the PC asking me if I want to translate the whole site into English, but i can't figure out how to do it on my Mac at home.

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## Michael Wolf

> I always assumed that, because of the scale length (similar to guitar and octave mando), that it would be GDAE, but that could be wrong. CGDA seems to be more common in general, and your Garoto book would suggest that it was common enough. Changing string gauge can do a lot to make things workable, so it's hard to say.
> 
> Obviously, there's an answer to this question, and that is to listen to a couple recordings. Listening for range and for open strings should provide definitive answers. If I were home, I'd be on it, but I'll have to wait until later in the day.


The tenor guitar in Brazil is indeed always tuned in CGDA and they have a shorter scale than the classical tenors. The resos from Delveccio seem to have a scale around 52cm and the nylon string tenors are often even shorter.

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## Doug Hoople

> The tenor guitar in Brazil is indeed always tuned in CGDA and they have a shorter scale than the classical tenors. The resos from Delveccio seem to have a scale around 52cm and the nylon string tenors are often even shorter.


Thanks, Michael, for chiming in. I thought you might. 

Just doing the math, 52cm is about 20-1/2 inches. Most mandolas are around 16 inches, for an idea of how the scales compare. Interesting.

----------


## Doug Hoople

> I live in New York City, which has a big Brazilian population, and as far as I know, there is no place to try out a cavaquinho or bandolim in the city.  Even if there were, you'd probably have one brand to chose from.  
> 
> Maybe some of the charm behind the instrument is that it feels unusual, rare or special in North America.


In Brazil, where the music shops are filled with these instruments, they still have the power to charm. It's the unique way they're played that makes them interesting and compelling. 

The cavaquinho is thought to be a rhythm instrument, much more than as a harmony instrument, which is a really interesting concept that hits you right in the gut as soon as you hear someone playing like that. 

And, in the right hands, the bandolim just sings in a very elastic way that other mandolins struggle to reproduce.

----------


## Al Bergstein

Wow. the longest thread in a while?  Baskervils: you have to listen to a bandolim in the hands of a pro, to really understand the difference. It's not really what I would call 'charm'.  It's like saying a spanish style nylon string is like a Martin used for bluegrass. It's a very different animal. Tone is different, more brilliant, almost a harsh tone even with an older instrument, very different than a Loar like instrument, and more like a teens A model Gibson than what they designed for Apollon. But they obviously designed it to be heard above a lot of racket (read banjos for us, but remember that Choro incorporates horns and tambourine like instruments).  These mandolins are *loud*. Though when built with fine rosewood, like mine is, they are as complex a sound as any high end F. And many of the Brazilian players play it differently. Strings that are more like a rubber band than the heavy bluegrass strings. Some play lighter picks for what they call a "dirtier" sound.  The way they attack the strings is different, with a much more finger tip  oriented approach (a classical style origin rather than folk?) to the tremolo. At least these are the differences I've seen, as a middling amateur coming from the bluegrass beginnings. Maybe Bruce or someone who is a long time player of many styles could clarify my limited vocabulary. 

So no, I would have to disagree. It's not just that they are 'charming' and unusual. They bring a new voice to the music here in North America. To me, the ability to shift away from banjos and bluegrass and add horns, pandeiros, flutes, clarinets, sax, etc, is really exciting. If anything is 'charming' it's the music, rather than the instrument.  Sort of like jazz players playing Dixieland. Not modern, but really swings, and is fun. That's why I play it.

----------


## Baskervils

> Wow. the longest thread in a while?  Baskervils: you have to listen to a bandolim in the hands of a pro, to really understand the difference. It's not really what I would call 'charm'.  It's like saying a spanish style nylon string is like a Martin used for bluegrass. It's a very different animal. Tone is different, more brilliant, almost a harsh tone even with an older instrument, very different than a Loar like instrument, and more like a teens A model Gibson than what they designed for Apollon. But they obviously designed it to be heard above a lot of racket (read banjos for us, but remember that Choro incorporates horns and tambourine like instruments).  These mandolins are *loud*. Though when built with fine rosewood, like mine is, they are as complex a sound as any high end F. And many of the Brazilian players play it differently. Strings that are more like a rubber band than the heavy bluegrass strings. Some play lighter picks for what they call a "dirtier" sound.  The way they attack the strings is different, with a much more finger tip  oriented approach (a classical style origin rather than folk?) to the tremolo. At least these are the differences I've seen, as a middling amateur coming from the bluegrass beginnings. Maybe Bruce or someone who is a long time player of many styles could clarify my limited vocabulary. 
> 
> So no, I would have to disagree. It's not just that they are 'charming' and unusual. They bring a new voice to the music here in North America. To me, the ability to shift away from banjos and bluegrass and add horns, pandeiros, flutes, clarinets, sax, etc, is really exciting. If anything is 'charming' it's the music, rather than the instrument.  Sort of like jazz players playing Dixieland. Not modern, but really swings, and is fun. That's why I play it.


I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with from my post.  I'm not sure that you read it carefully. I PLAY the cavaquinho, not the bandolim.  

My point was, there aren't stores in the US where you can try them out.  They are difficult to find in the US, which adds to their charm and allure.  Charming isn't a bad thing.  It certainly doesn't make them any less of a "real" instrument.

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## Al Bergstein

Posts are such an incomplete method of communications. No slam meant. Charming means many different things to many different people.

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## John Eubanks

To Alb
very well said. As I move from playing mandolin to bandolim almost exclusively, I am finding that the tone of the bandolim is as complex as my high end f models and the response is like that of a teens gibson. As I am getting used to this instrument, about 6 months in, I am not sure what tercio Ribeiro has created but I feel the instrument is going to develop a unique voice that seems to really suit me and my playing style as well as anything I have tried. I am playing a lot of bach trying to pay close attention to not only pulling the tone out of the instrument in a classical way but trying to get the deep background sound to match what chris or mike are getting while using a pointed medium pick. I will play Pupville or Old Ebenezer to try to get the down pressure I am playing with to be the same. NOLA or any Jethro Burns sounds great on the bandolim. I don't know how much this has to do with purchasing a bandolim but I am happy to be traveling  the road this instrument taking me on.

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## Doug Hoople

My use of the word "charm" was meant to imply "enchant." And, I have to say, I find the sound of the bandolim played well enchanting and inimitable. 

For my part, it was increasing familiarity with bandolins that led me to finally acquire one. And, contrary to the novelty aspect of it, the bandolim grew on me slowly from a poor start. 

When I first heard it, my first impression was that it was thin and inadequate, that choro was inspiring in spite of, not because of, the bandolim. In short, I didn't care much for it. Frankly, I also didn't get Jacob right away... I thought his sound was harsh and edgy, and that his sense of time was not his strong suit (I'm describing honest first reactions here, and cringing as I write!!) 

What a difference a few years make. Only upon really getting to know the bandolim and listening to thousands of hours of choro did I actually get it. Okay, so I'm a little slow, but it hit me like a ton of bricks when it finally did hit me. 

So it wasn't the novelty or the rarity of these instruments that drew me to them. It took a long-developing familiarity with Brazilian instruments, an acceptance of them as the norm and not the exception.  That, and falling in love with choro and Brazilian music in general, led me to see how irreproducible it is without them. That's what made playing a bandolim so essential for me.

----------


## hhold

Speaking of Bandolims, does anyone know who made Eva Scow's?

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## Jim Garber

Looks like a Batista but someone else might actually know for sure.

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## Michael Wolf

> ....When I first heard it, my first impression was that it was thin and inadequate, that choro was inspiring in spite of, not because of, the bandolim....
> 
> ...What a difference a few years make. Only upon really getting to know the bandolim and listening to thousands of hours of choro did I actually get it. Okay, so I'm a little slow, but it hit me like a ton of bricks when it finally did hit me.... 
> 
> ....That, and falling in love with choro and Brazilian music in general, led me to see how irreproducible it is without them. That's what made playing a bandolim so essential for me.


Doug, that was my experience too. I finally had to accept that I need a Bandolim or a similar sounding flattop, but it took me a few years. I always thought that archtops are the superior instruments, but somehow they don´t give me the tone and the possibilities that I need for Choro.
Some F5-players that I know can only sneer at me now, because I strayed from the right path. :Smile:

----------


## Jim Garber

I finally broke down and bought a bandolim. This one was built in 1998 by Manoel Andrade of São Paulo. It took me awhile to get it playable -- I was not aware how these things were set up but with some good advise from some wise North American bandolimists and a loan of two sets of Rouxinol silk and steel strings (thanks, Linda!), I am on my way.

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## Doug Hoople

> I finally broke down and bought a bandolim. This one was built in 1998 by Manoel Andrade of São Paulo. It took me awhile to get it playable -- I was not aware how these things were set up but with some good advise from some wise North American bandolimists and a loan of two sets of Rouxinol silk and steel strings (thanks, Linda!), I am on my way.


Congratulations, Jim! 

I'm puzzled, though. You broke down and bought a bandolim... but it took you awhile to get it playable. I recall you posting about this instrument, I think, or, porssibly you emailed me. 

Have you had it a while, parts on the floor, and just gotten it playable enough to actually play it? Or did you lurk, negotiating setup with the seller, and then finally, just now, pull the trigger? 

When will it be playable? And when will you be able to give us your impressions?

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## Jim Garber

No, Doug... perhaps I am a little confusing AND confused. On post #82 is my exploded bandolim which I bought rather cheaply on eBay. It has the name of a Rio music store on it and looks decently made, of Brazilian rosewood, probably 20-30 years ago. I will likely get that put back together some time.

In the meantime, after a rather convoluted bunch of circumstances not worth going into at this time, I bought the Andrade above. I guess it is an early one of his. So, I have two, but only one is playable at the moment. I spent recent days trying to set it up so it felt good playing it and finally with the Rouxinols it sounds and played pretty good. Sorry for the confusion.

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## MandoNicity

Congrats on your purchase Jim!  Looks awesome.  Post some sound clips when you can.

JR

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## Larry S Sherman

> I finally broke down and bought a bandolim. This one was built in 1998 by Manoel Andrade of São Paulo.


Cool! I have one of his bandolims as well.



Mine was originally ordered by Peter Mix, and eventually changed hands a couple times until I got it. It's perfectly setup, and plays beautifully. The bone bridge contributes a lot to the sound, and I run Ti's on it.

Larry

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## Jim Garber

Mine belonged to Marilynn Mair. I had emailed her about her new method book and she just mentioned she had this one which she was no longer playing much since she got a new bandolim. She said she used this one on her CD Meu Bandolim.

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## Jim Garber

Larry: Ours were built in the same year. Is yours rosewood or maple back and sides? Also: it looks like you have a different bridge on yours with some compensation. I have the original bridge with mine as well as a thicker one that Marilynn had made. neither are compensated.

So far I have tried two different string sets. Marilynn uses Savarez Argentine. When I first got the the strings were very old, so I  changed them to close the same gauge as both the Savarez and the Rouxinol (Brazilian) string -- some D'Addario J-62s which is what I had on hand. My friend Linda Binder sent me a couple of sets of the Rouxinols which are silk and steel and the sound is much different.  So far I like it tho it does seem a little hare to intonate it properly. I am not 100% sure if the zero fret is set right -- it sort of angles on the bass side.

----------


## Jim Garber

I don't know if anyone is looking for a bandolim, but this top-of-the-line, handcrafted GSBM5-EL is available from Amazon at what looks to be a seriously low price. I hope there is not a catch. but it is being sold by Amazon, not one of their affiliated sellers.

Let us know if anyone buys one. It looks like 2 are left.

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## delsbrother

I think they put the laminated price on the handmade instrument; it's since been fixed - it's still on sale, but it's not $1000 off anymore.  :Frown:   I wonder if they will honor the original advertised price.

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## Jim Garber

Man, I was almost going to buy one just to have but I realized that I have two bandolims that need fixing and the money would prob be better spent there. Oh well. The price is still pretty decent.

I wonder if someone tried to buy it and was told that that was not the price.

Then again the model GBSM3 EL is still at a rock bottom price, well below the acoustic only model. Grab it while you can.

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## Baskervils

I got the Giannini top of the line Cavaquinho on Amazon about 12 months ago for $680 and now they are $950+.  Even at that price, it's a great instrument!  Better than I expected.

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## Jim Garber

> I got the Giannini top of the line Cavaquinho on Amazon about 12 months ago for $680 and now they are $950+.  Even at that price, it's a great instrument!  Better than I expected.


Actually, that GCSM10 Cavaquinho is currently $852.00.

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## Baskervils

> Actually, that GCSM10 Cavaquinho is currently $852.00.


Ah, I got the EL (which is worth the extra $100, w the pick up / tuner.

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## OneFineBob

I see this is an old thread, but I'm new to the forum. I have a cavaquinho that my wife brought back from a trip to Brazil last year. It is a Tok's brand cavaquinho that cost her about $100US to purchase while she was there. Admittedly, I don't know much about playing it yet, but it seems to have a nice sound to it and it came with a pickup already installed. Tok's might be an answer for those looking for the inexpensive end of the spectrum.

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## Jim Garber

Actually I just bought as used Rozini cavaquinho professional model rosewood laminated B&S. It also has a built-in tuner/pickup the tune works fine but I have yet to try the pickup. Pretty nice for an inexpensive instrument. Now I just have to learn to play it. I think I would like to keep the tuning to the trad dgbd as opposed to the top 4 strings of guitar one octave up.

I think I would concentrate on the rhythm aspects of this instrument and use the bandolim for melody.

OneFineBob: Check out youtube. There are quite a few cavaquinho players who demonstrate various rhythms.

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## OneFineBob

Jim - I've seen some of the videos. They are amazing! I picked up a DVD course on the instrument from Brazil - I can't speak the language, but I can read the music/tab and follow the video. I'm looking forward to learning!

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## Baskervils

> Jim - I've seen some of the videos. They are amazing! I picked up a DVD course on the instrument from Brazil - I can't speak the language, but I can read the music/tab and follow the video. I'm looking forward to learning!


I can recommend Marcos Dupra's beginning and intermediate cavaquinho DVDs.  Good lessons.  Honest guy.  DVDs work on US computers.

http://www.professordecavaquinho.blogspot.com/

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SincereCorgi

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## Baskervils

http://cgi.ebay.com/Giannini-GCSM-10...41074010751562

This handcrafted Giannini Cavaquinho is up on eBay for a great price as of 7/18/11.  I have 2 of these and it's an amazing deal.

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## Jim Garber

> I just received this "bandolim kit" in the mail today. It is marked from a well-known music store in Rio, Casa Oliveira. It looks like it was a little more than a tourist model -- looks like decent quality -- no laminates, as far as I can tell. The neck is nice mahogany and finished quite nicely and the spruce(?) top wood also looks like in perfect shape. The tuner buttons are gone but I actually have a set that will fit or I can replace the buttons. There are some nice details such as herringbone binding around the edge and some decorative lining the fretboard and the headstock.It also has a nice bone bridge. The worst part is the back which has multiple cracks and one half is split off altogether. OTOH it looks like beautiful Brazilian rosewood and would not be so hard to fix esp since it is pretty much apart already.
> 
> I was trying to see if there was a way to get in touch with someone at that store which evidently still is in business and find out something about this bandolim. In any case, I know it is prob no Batista or Ribiero but might be a decent starter instrument.


I got this bandolim back from my luthier and she did a great job. I cannot even tell if where the separation was on the back. it plays nicely and I have a feeling once it settles in with some playing and slight adjustment would be nice instrument.

Here is what it looked like before:

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