# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > CBOM >  Andy Tobin Cedar Bouzouki Build Diary

## Andy Tobin

Hi Everyone

I've recently started building a Rosewood and Cedar bouzouki for a list member. So here's a photo diary detailing each stage of it's construction. I hope that you find it interesting.



Here the neck mahogany has been squared and marked up, truss rod inserted and the headstock inlay fitted.....





After bandsawing the excess, carving can start. The offcuts fro the neck can be used for the top block and also the kerfed linings....



A Stanley knife and a good sharp spoke shave are the best tools for this job.



Here most of the shaping has been finished. Final profiling will done when the instrument is fully assembled. Now the angle of the neck block will be cut very precisely before fitting into the building jig.

This is probably one of the most important stages as the geometry and positioning of the neck in the jig will setup the playing angle and the height of the strings at the jig.





More to follow....

All the best

Andy

PS - any ideas how to make the photos a wee bit bigger ??

----------

Clement Barrera-Ng, 

cwboal, 

fox, 

gortnamona, 

hank, 

John Kelly, 

Nick Gellie, 

Reinhardt, 

ronin

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## Reinhardt

Andy , Great to see you on board the Cafe. Fellow members, I have 2 of Andy's bouzoukis , standard and large body, they are just fantastic, Andy dont worry about the pictures, when I click on them I get full size which is perfect. I always wondered how these were put together. Just as a matter of interest, both of mine are spruce tops, what do ya see as being the main differences in tone etc between spruce and cedar. 

Keep the photos coming Andy, its fantastic to get an insight as to how skilled luthiers like yourself put their masterpieces together. Whoever gets this instrument is going to be a lucky guy/gal.

John

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## Nick Gellie

John

Western Red cedar imparts a warmer tone across the range of the instrument.  One gets an immediate effect after the initial build.

Great to see Andy's deft workmanship being revealed here.

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## fox

Great, love theses build diary's ...

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## Andy Tobin

Hi John, Nick's right about Cedar, compared with the Spruces, it does have an immediate warmth across the tonal range, and it's generally accepted that it doesn't need as much playing in either. Having said that I think it does develop and mature tonally with time. I'm certainly being asked for it more these days which is great - it's a gorgeous sounding wood.

Andy

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## Mike Anderson

> PS - any ideas how to make the photos a wee bit bigger ??


Andy, when you embed the photos they only show as thumbnails on the web page, but if you click them, you get a nice big blowup of the image! So they're just fine.  :Smile:

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## johnbazgtr

Hi Andy, John Burge here up in county durham.............a while before you start my LBB I Know. But,This discussion about cedar v spruce for the top, is there much noticeable difference apart from the warmer sounding cedar, and what advantages if any, are there with spruce over using cedar ?? I'm 50/50 at the moment, but I know I have time to decide etc. John (Ryan) reckons his spruce ones opened up after a few months.I would think there might be possibly more clarity with spruce ??Anyone else out there other than Andy with an opinion on this, put your thoughts forward here on the forum. Cheers off to bed now to dream about bouzoukis again !!!!!!!

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## Nick Gellie

> Hi Andy, John Burge here up in county durham.............a while before you start my LBB I Know. But,This discussion about cedar v spruce for the top, is there much noticeable difference apart from the warmer sounding cedar, and what advantages if any, are there with spruce over using cedar ?? I'm 50/50 at the moment, but I know I have time to decide etc. John (Ryan) reckons his spruce ones opened up after a few months.I would think there might be possibly more clarity with spruce ??Anyone else out there other than Andy with an opinion on this, put your thoughts forward here on the forum. Cheers off to bed now to dream about bouzoukis again !!!!!!!


John

I had a Rick Westerman bouzouki years ago and it was a cedar topped instrument.  It had a fantastic tone, warm and bright at the same time.  My preference is for a western red cedar topped bouzouki.  There are also quite a number of USA luthiers who have made beautiful western red cedar topped instruments and they work well.

Nigel Forster's western red cedar topped ibouzouki sound really good based on very high quality sound clips I have listened to.

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## fox

I have built two tenor guitars with cedar tops and lots more with spruce and some with cypress.
I found the cedar to be a lovely sounding wood, maybe not quite as clear or sharp as spruce. I don't notice much different in volume or sustain but the cedar seems to have more depth, and a more mellow tone.
I also think the average cedar top  looks nicer than the average spruce top!
However the big difference is the hardness of the wood with cedar being very soft.
In my case, my cedar toped guitars are well dented!
 Of course a professional builder will most likely produce a much better & harder finish coat that I can manage & dings may not be an issue!
I think it is nice to be slightly different and as long as you are carful with your instrument, I would highly recommend a cedar soundboard.

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## johnbazgtr

thanks for that Fox

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## Andy Tobin

Here are the latest pics for you.....





In these images, the neck and top block are being fitted into the jig. Getting the alignment and geometry correct here is crucial.

Once the jig is setup I can make a start on the back and sides.

----------

cwboal, 

hank, 

Nick Gellie

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## Andy Tobin

Oops, don't know what happened there...

Anyway, that was a photo of the bending iron I use. I made this probably 30 years ago out of a piece of 3" steel pipe welded to a bit 8mm sheet so I can clamp it into a vice. It's heated with a small gas burner from a camping stove. Once up to temperature it gives a very even heat along the length of the pipe. About 10 or 15 years ago I bought a proper one thinking it would work better - well it didn't and so I very quickly went back to using this.

So, the back's glued up and the sides are planed to the correct thickness. Time for bending them up...



I really enjoy this part of the build - it's the first time that you start to see the instrument coming together.





and after a bit of cleaning up, they can be glued into the jig.

----------

cwboal, 

fox, 

hank, 

Nick Gellie, 

Reinhardt

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## Nick Gellie

I like your simple tools and jigs Andy.  Obviously a lot of thought has gone into it over the years.

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hank

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## Andy Tobin

> I like your simple tools and jigs Andy.  Obviously a lot of thought has gone into it over the years.


Hi Nick, well there's nothing wrong with simple !! The jig system I use seems to work very well for me. It's quite different to a more conventional guitar style mould which is a method that works very well if the neck is joined to a completed body with either a dovetail or some other mechanical join. As I build my instruments with an integral block ie: no dovetail or mechanical join, the method of construction needs to be different. This jig is similar in some ways to the traditional Spanish Flamenco guitar construction where the body is built around the neck and slipper heel. It's a wee bit more complicated to build this way but there are significant tonal advantages in avoiding the dovetail join.

As for tools, I'll talk more about these later, but I do like my hand tools. Japanese saws and chisels are beautiful tools to use and all of my thicknessing is done with a small Veritas block plane and cabinet scraper - you don't really need much else !! - well maybe a small router, oh and a bandsaw comes in handy too.

All best

Andy

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hank

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## Reinhardt

This is great Andy and really inspiring for all of us would be luthiers!!! or should that be "wood be".
Its great to see the instrument coming together. Also great to see you using hand tools and your own jigs and bending iron. The integral neck block is a really interesting idea. would you say its used much by luthiers??  Is that just a simple flat piece of MDF under the back you are joining or are there some secrets going on under there!!!

Cant wait for the next installment!!

John

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## fox

Yeah same here......

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## Andy Tobin

> This is great Andy and really inspiring for all of us would be luthiers!!! or should that be "wood be".
> Its great to see the instrument coming together. Also great to see you using hand tools and your own jigs and bending iron. The integral neck block is a really interesting idea. would you say its used much by luthiers??  Is that just a simple flat piece of MDF under the back you are joining or are there some secrets going on under there!!!
> 
> Cant wait for the next installment!!
> 
> John


Hi John, No secrets I'm afraid, just a piece of 25mm MDF with a bit of candle wax down the middle of it to stop the glue sticking. It's getting a wee bit tatty now though - I can't think how many tops and backs have been glued up on this !

As for the style of building, most other bouzoukis I've seen use the more conventional method of fixing the neck to the body with a dovetail, mortice and tenon or some form of mechanical joint, and there's nothing wrong with this at all. The method I use is a bit different but works very well too, and I believe that it does have distinct advantages, tonally and also additional sustain.

All best

Andy

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## cliff g

I have one of Andy's 5 course citterns - a really versatile alternative to the bouzouki - shorter scale length which makes it a bit more manageable and the option of a low growling bass when you want it.  I know nothing of building and neck joint options but certainly the sustain on this instrument is incredible.  It seems to be able to produce a tight percussive (bouzouki) sound or a more open, ringing, chordal tone depending on how you want to use it.  Perfect intonation and playability all the way up the neck - which is fairly important, I think, on these instruments as we frequently capo at the 5th or 7th fret.

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## Reinhardt

I'll second that Cliff, I have 2 of Andy's Bouzoukis, Standard and Large Body, both spruce tops. Great instruments and sensibly priced as well. 

John

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## Andy Tobin

OK, here's how the bouzouki is progressing.



The two halves of the back have been glued together and are sawn to shape. Now the thicknessing can start.



I like to use a small finely set Veritas Block plane for this, and then a cabinet scraper.



When it's the correct thickness I rout a small 6mm channel in the outside face to take a Kingwood inlay. As well as being decorative, this inlay also strengthens the glue join meaning that an internal reinforcing strip is not necessary. This will make the job of fixing and shaping the internal bracing much easier.



Now we can start on the back braces. These are made from very straight close grained Sitka spruce cut from split billets. A slight radius is carved into the gluing face. Again this is all done with the block plane. The braces can then be glued and when dry carved to shape.









and the finished back....

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cwboal, 

derbex, 

hank, 

Nick Gellie

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## Reinhardt

This is great Andy. Better than any book on lutherie!! Maybe you should write one!!!! Keep the threads comin...

John

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## Andy Tobin

Really glad that you like the pictures John. The last one didn't come out for some reason, so here it is...

Attachment 156106

So the next job is to fit the kerfed lining to the sides before fitting the back. These are made out of offcuts from the neck and are a right pain to make !! This shot shows the lining fitted and cleaned up.

Attachment 156108

Then we have to fit the back to the sides and mark the positions of the back braces on the linings and cut the rebates out. This is best done with a small Japanese saw and sharp chisel.





Then the back can be glued on. This is where this style of building jig really comes into its own. These spool clamps fit into pre threaded holes in the aluminium plate. The spool can then be screwed down to the back to clamp it down.



Next job is to start work on the top......

All best

Andy

----------

cwboal, 

hank, 

Nick Gellie

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## johnbazgtr

> Really glad that you like the pictures John. The last one didn't come out for some reason, so here it is...
> 
> Attachment 156106
> 
> So the next job is to fit the kerfed lining to the sides before fitting the back. These are made out of offcuts from the neck and are a right pain to make !! This shot shows the lining fitted and cleaned up.
> 
> Attachment 156108
> 
> Then we have to fit the back to the sides and mark the positions of the back braces on the linings and cut the rebates out. This is best done with a small Japanese saw and sharp chisel.
> ...


Really interesting seeing it all come together Andy....... is this an LBB or an SBB ?

cheers          john burge

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Nick Gellie

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## Reinhardt

Slightly off thread ( and maybe Andy wont agree) . For all you lucky Tobin Bouzouki Owners out there, try a pair of Nickle Wound 20s on the A strings. Just put it on me large body, (Bouzouki that is), wow,sounds fantastic or even fantasticker (new word for Oxford English Dictionary) than it did before.

John

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Nick Gellie

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## Andy Tobin

OK, making the top is the next job on the list.



so the two halves are glued together in exactly the same way as the backs are on my trusty piece of very old MDF. This instrument will be made with a Cedar top. I remember selecting this piece of wood a number of years ago, it has a lovely tight grain and is especially stiff, I had a feeling it would make far a great instrument.



Now it can be thicknessed. Again, the Veritas block plane is the best job for this.



This is a lovely tool to use, good and heavy, a really well designed plane. The iron is 3mm thick and from PMV-11 steel - no idea what that means but it works !!

Now I can fit the rosette. Good circle cutters are hard to find and I've never wanted to go the Dremel drill route, all those complicated jigs and things. I found this cutter in a tool shop over 30 years ago and it works a treat.



The arm is from a high carbon steel and I had it hardened. It cuts a beautiful, very accurate circle. The only drawback is that the waste then has to be removed. So it's back to the Lie Nielson chisels.





Here the rosette is ready to be glued in.



And here is the finished rosette cleaned up. The top is now ready for the bracing to be fitted and carved. As with the back, the braces are made from tight close grained Sitka spruce.



Here the main braces have been glued and are being roughly carved to shape.



And here is the finished top ready for fixing to the body. Now you may have noticed that the bracing looks a wee bit different from a conventional X bracing most commonly used. Well, I've been using this bracing system for many years now and have over time developed it into the pattern you see here. 

As you'll probably know, the X bracing system was developed for use in guitars and is designed primarily for guitars with pin bridges. 

In a guitar the forces acting on the top are completely different from a bouzouki which has a floating bridge. In a guitar the forces are sheer - ie; the strings are trying to pull the bridge off. On a bouzouki with a floating bridge the forces are of compression - ie; the strings are trying to push the bridge into the body. 

X bracing just isn't designed to cope with this force, especially when you have a weak cross half lapped joint right under the bridge ! This offset transverse bracing is much more designed to cope with the compression force. I know it's unconventional but it's a system that works very well.

OK - that's all for now, next job will be to fix the top to the body.

All best

Andy

----------

cwboal, 

fox, 

hank, 

Nick Gellie

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## Dagger Gordon

> Hi John, Nick's right about Cedar, compared with the Spruces, it does have an immediate warmth across the tonal range, and it's generally accepted that it doesn't need as much playing in either. Having said that I think it does develop and mature tonally with time. I'm certainly being asked for it more these days which is great - it's a gorgeous sounding wood.
> 
> Andy


I have 2 Sobell instruments - a ten string mandolin and an octave mandolin, from the 1980s which are cedar/rosewood and that seems to suit me fine.
I also got a cedar/rosewood Lowden guitar about four years ago. Very responsive and easy to play, but actually I almost find it TOO loud.

There seems to be a school of thought which suggests that cedar is good for fingerstyle guitar playing but spruce is better for strumming. I don't know what you would think of that, Andy.
Having said that, I think some of my favourite Celtic rhythm guitar playing is by Donogh Hennessey on early Lunasa albums and Ross Martin from Scottish band Diamh. As far as know they are both cedar topped Lowdens, and judging from the amount of wear on their guitars they were definitely being used pretty hard!

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## Reinhardt

Great stuff Andy. How thick does the soundboard end up when you're finished?? Is it uniform thickness or does it vary.?

How do you know when to stop shaping the bracing?? Might sound like stupid questions but this whole thread is just so inspiring for those of us with dreams to build their own instrument. 

Keep up the great work Andy. This has to be the best builder thread on the cafe!!!

John

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## Andy Tobin

> Great stuff Andy. How thick does the soundboard end up when you're finished?? Is it uniform thickness or does it vary.?
> 
> How do you know when to stop shaping the bracing?? Might sound like stupid questions but this whole thread is just so inspiring for those of us with dreams to build their own instrument. 
> 
> Keep up the great work Andy. This has to be the best builder thread on the cafe!!!
> 
> John


Hi John, I'm really glad that you're finding this interesting and inspiring. I think you're right, many people would love to have a go at building their own instruments, I hope that this helps to demystify some of the processes.

I usually take my soundboards down to about 3mm at the centre, then the edges are feathered down to anywhere between 2.5-2.8mm. I want to keep the top fairly stiff in the centre, but more flexible at the edges - a bit like a loudspeaker cone, it has to be flexible enough to respond to the lightest of touches, but also strong enough to cope with the string pressure. 

As Cedar is a softer and less dense wood than the various spruces, I'll make these thicknesses about 10% bigger.

As to the shaping of the braces, and how far to take the carving, this is where it does get a wee bit airy-fairy. For me, much of it does comes down a gut feeling, and I'm afraid that much of this comes down to experience. How it looks and feels, you get a sense when it's right, and this is reinforced by tapping. I do this a lot when I'm tuning the top - the tone of the top will tighten and ring more when it's right, you've just got to remember to stop at the right time !!!

All best

Andy

----------

cwboal, 

hank

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## Nick Gellie

I like the simple tools again in the process of preparing the top.  They might be a bit slower and require exacting attention to detail but they seem to do the job well.

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hank

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## Andy Tobin

> Really interesting seeing it all come together Andy....... is this an LBB or an SBB ?
> 
> cheers          john burge


Hi John, sorry, I forgot your reply - this is an SBB with a scale length of 632mm. Hope that helps - Andy

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## Andy Tobin

OK, the top's all finished now, so I need to get the body ready so I can fit the top. So after cleaning up the edges of the back with the router, it's time to take the body and neck out of the jig. There may be a bit of excess glue so there's a wee bit of cleaning up inside first, then the kerfed lining can be fitted.





I make the kerfed linings out of offcuts from the neck blank. Mahogany is a good wood to use for this, although they could be from spruce, lime or poplar. Although these can be bought ready made, they're much better if you make them yourself - they're a right pain to make though !



Here the linings have been glued in place. I use clothes pegs to hold them in place.



Sometimes these instruments can get a bit of a hammering and as the sides are made from a solid but thin section, they'll need reinforcing across the grain to hep reduce the risk of splitting. I make these reinforcing strips out of offcuts of rosewood planed down to 2.5mm.



So here's the finished body ready to have the top fitted. I glue in the label at this stage too. Fitting the top is the same process as for fitting the back. The positions of the braces are marked and the small rebate is cut using the Japanese saw with the excess being chiselled away. 



Then the top can be glued on using the same spool clamps I use for fitting the back. I'll set this aside now for a couple of days before making a start on the next jobs of fitting the purflings, linings and fingerboard.

----------

derbex, 

Nick Gellie, 

Reinhardt

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## Reinhardt

Hi Andy, did you make those spool clamps yourself??? also how many reinforcing strips do you install, is it always in or around the same area as the braces meet the sides?? great to see how the mysterious of the instrument takes shape!!

John

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## Andy Tobin

> Hi Andy, did you make those spool clamps yourself??? also how many reinforcing strips do you install, is it always in or around the same area as the braces meet the sides?? great to see how the mysterious of the instrument takes shape!!
> 
> John


Hi John, yes I made the spool clamps. They're really useful things to have in the workshop. Very simple to make - just some 35mm dowel with a hole drilled through the middle and a 6mm nut embedded in one end. Then they can screw onto a 6" length of 6mm studding. I fit 4 of the reinforcing strips per side at equal spacings which happens to line up with the 3 of the back braces.

All the best

Andy

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## Andy Tobin

OK, it's time to fit the purflings and bindings to the body. But before I do that the body will need a good tidy up first. Use a router to trim away the overhanging excess from the top and back and then clean up any glue overspill from the sides.

Now it's time to cut the rebates for the purflings and bindings. There are various ways you can do this and by far the easiest and most accurate way is with a router. One way of doing this is to set the router upside down in a table - so you've basically got a small spindle moulder. The cutter can be adjusted for height and depth and the instrument is run against a stop. 

But I like to cut the rebates using a small hand held router using a bearing follower. I just find this method easier and more flexible - also it's one more bit of equipment you don't need to keep in the workshop. The router I use is a small Bosch POF52. This model was discontinued years ago - amazingly mine is still going after 30 years. I had to change the bearings on it a good 20 years ago and it still runs perfectly.





I also need to cut the vertical rebate which links the top and back bindings together with mitred joints. This photo is a close up detail showing the rebates all cut.

So the next job is to glue them all in. The rosewood bindings will need bending to the body profile first. The purflings are flexible enough and they don't need bending. 





While the glue is drying the bindings and purflings are held in place with a low tack masking tape. They only need to be held for 10 minutes or so, until the glue has 'grabbed'. Then set the instrument aside for a good day or two until the glue has dried fully.

After all the tape has been removed and the glue has dried fully the fingerboard can be fitted. The fingerboard is cut to the finished shape and the fret slots are cut too, but the surface is left flat. It makes it much easier to glue and get an even pressure right to the edges if the fingerboard is flat. Also, no matter how careful you are with your gluing and clamping, the drying process will always leave a very slight positive or negative bow in the neck which can be dealt with later when the fingerboard profile is cut.

Now it's time for a big clean up !!







So next is the fingerboard and fretting......

All the best

Andy

----------

derbex, 

fox, 

hank, 

Reinhardt

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## Reinhardt

Wow, really taking shape now Andy. Just a few questions if ya dont mind!!

Whats that little wedge where the bottom body meets the neck? do you use the same type of glue for the bandings and purflings as you use on the rest of the instrument. Would it be easier to rout the channels for the bandings before you attach the neck??

Keep em comin Andy. This is great stuff and really explains some of the mysterys of the dark art of lutherie!!!

John

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## Andy Tobin

> Wow, really taking shape now Andy. Just a few questions if ya dont mind!!
> 
> Whats that little wedge where the bottom body meets the neck? do you use the same type of glue for the bandings and purflings as you use on the rest of the instrument. Would it be easier to rout the channels for the bandings before you attach the neck??
> 
> Keep em comin Andy. This is great stuff and really explains some of the mysterys of the dark art of lutherie!!!
> 
> John


Hi John, yes it's coming together now. Well spotted, after I took that photo I was wondering if anyone would figure out what the wedge is for !! Well, when I'm cutting the vertical rebate for the binding and also cleaning everything down, it's really handy to be able to fix the instrument into a bench clamp. The wedge provides a surface that is parallel to the surface of the fingerboard - makes it much easier to clamp then.

Glue - yes, the same glue for just about every job really - I use Franklins Titebond.

The neck is the first component to go into the jig and the body is built around it, so it's part of the body from day one really, so the binding and purfling rebates have to be routed with the neck in place. Actually the routing is made easier with the neck in place anyway, especially for the back as the instrument can be clamped down by the neck with a couple of G clamps which holds everything steady.

Routing the rebates is a very quick and easy job to do - although it can look like a scary one ! If the router is set up properly, and the cutter is set to the correct depth, and the bearing follower is set, very little can go wrong. Always do a test cut first though on some offcuts. And another tip - always use a HSS cutter rather than a TC one. TC cutters are fine when they're new, but the edge goes much quicker than you'd expect and they're difficult to sharpen. HSS cutters are much easier to sharpen and you'll get a much better finish, especially on softwoods like spruce or cedar. 

Hope that helps.

All the best

Andy

----------

cwboal, 

hank, 

Reinhardt

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## Reinhardt

C'mon Andy, We're all waitin for the next installment!!!!!!! Meant to ask, do you ever use plastic bindings? I've heard these are really easy to shape. You'd probably need different glue though would ya.

John

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## Nick Gellie

Remember John he needs time to build it first and I also think Andy liked to create a bit of excitement and anticipation.

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## Reinhardt

You're so right Nic!! This is like a suspense thriller!! I'm particularly interested because I'm a Tobin addict and owner!! Its great to see how the instruments are put together, I had no idea that Andy used that integral neck joint for instance, it seems to be a major factor in how he gets the great sound. Believe me, the instruments are fantastic, beautiful tone, sustain and volume. I'm hoping to make a copy of one myself. This thread has been invaluable but I can guarantee you 100% that mine wont be half as good as Andy's particularly as I've never built an instrument before!! I'm just doing it as a personal project as I've always wanted to see if I could actually do it.. I'm nearing retitrement ( 2 years 10 months and 3 days, but who's counting!!). Want to keep busy even if it is only destroying perfectly good pieces of wood in my attempts at mastering lutherie!!!

Seriously though, I've always had a big interest in how instruments were put together but just never had the time or guts to pursue it. I'm not getting any younger so its now or never!!

Would love to see some videos of the finished product when its done. Looks like a fantastic instrument. Love the look of the cedar top as well. Mine are Spruce tops, beautiful as well. Andy must be busy putting the finishing touches to it. I'll just have to be patient!!

John

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Nick Gellie

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## Andy Tobin

Sorry guys - been a wee bit distracted here, the sheep are playing havoc and the builders are busy turning the house into a pile of rubble !!

Anyway - where did we get to - Ah yes, final tidy up and then fingerboard and fretting...



The body's all cleaned down now, purflings and bindings are finished, so now the neck profiling can be finished.





Once all of the carving and spoke shaving is finished, the neck can be sanded down with some 80 grit paper spray mounted to a bit of MDF. This will give you a good flat and straight surface.

The fingerboard can now be profiled. I start off by taking the edges down with the block plane and then put the finished radius with a 16" radius extruded aluminium sanding block. This is a great tool from StewMac and makes this job a doddle.





Now we've got a perfectly flat and smooth fingerboard the Mother of Pearl dots can be glued into the drilled out holes with a bit of superglue. I use 4mm up the face of the fingerboard and 1.5mm dots in the edge.



The next job is the fretting. As the fingerboard has now been profiled, the fret slots must be recut to the correct depth. I like to use a Japanese Hassumne crosscut saw for this. It makes a beautifully smooth cut the perfect width for fretting. The sharp top edges of the cut will need to be filed away slightly. This will help the frets seat properly.



So now cut the frets slightly oversize and hammer them in. If you start at the edges of the frets and then move into the centre they will be more secure. I start fretting at the nut end and work my way to the sound hole. You don't need to hit the frets hard with the hammer but when you get to the part of the fingerboard that is over the body it's a good idea to support the inside with a small block of lead. This will absorb most of the shock and not damage the soundboard.

If the fretting is done properly you won't need to use any glue. Bear in mind that every instrument at some point in its life will need refretting and believe me, it's no fun at all taking out frets that have been glued in !!

Once all of the frets are in, clip the ends flush, file smooth and then file in a bevel. 





So we're nearly all done now. Finishing and assembly next....

All the best

Andy

----------

derbex, 

hank, 

Nick Gellie, 

ronin

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## Nick Gellie

I like the fact that you use such simple tools to make such a great instrument.  I am doing much the same myself and may I say I am getting some of those tools.  I found my spoke shave BTW today.

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## Nick Gellie

John

Andy is planning some videos with his new video camera.  Just a reminder Andy!

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## Andy Tobin

> John
> 
> Andy is planning some videos with his new video camera.  Just a reminder Andy!


Hi Nick, Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the videos. I've figured out how to take the video on the new camera and get the clips onto the laptop, but haven't got a clue what to do with it from there. Any help greatly appreciated - please......

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## Nick Gellie

> Hi Nick, Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the videos. I've figured out how to take the video on the new camera and get the clips onto the laptop, but haven't got a clue what to do with it from there. Any help greatly appreciated - 
> please......


What Computer OS do you use?  The camera should come with a USB to camera socket cable.  Connect the camera to your computer using the cable and you should be able to see the files in the files window.  The movies will be in a special folder.  From the camera's manual check what format your camera takes movies in.  Check the files by date and time and copy the one you want to your computer.

You should be able to double click on one to view it.

Then use the upload feature above the quick reply window to put them on the cafe.  You should see a little movie icon above the typing area.  Click on that and find the file you want to upload. Click on it and then upload and it should load alongside your reply text in special formatting characters.

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## Reinhardt

Hi Andy, really taking shape now. lookin great, cant wait to see the finish on it. do you just use the stanley knife for carving the neck where it meets the headstock? 

John

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## brendan456

This has been fascinating from start to 'nearly at the finish line' and I just wish I was watching my own instrument being made.  Guys, I took delivery of one of Andy's LBBs a few short months ago and I have to say that it is the best instrument I have ever purchased!  Now I understand more fully where that brilliant sound comes from.  
BTW Andy, just tried some Elixir strings last time around and I'm delighted with them.  Holding that new sound so much longer, even with my 12-string strumming style not holding back on them...  Looking forward to seeing the next few steps.  Keep up the excellent work and I hope your waiting list is growing and growing....

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## Andy Tobin

> Hi Andy, really taking shape now. lookin great, cant wait to see the finish on it. do you just use the stanley knife for carving the neck where it meets the headstock? 
> 
> John


Hi John, Yes I use the Stanley for the heel as well as for the bit at the nut end - I think it's called the 'volute'. In fact I use it for loads of jobs. It's a really useful and underrated tool and everybody should have one ! I'm sure over in the States they'd probably design a complicated jig and router method to carve the heel. 

Only a bit more to go on the thread now.

All the best

Andy

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## Andy Tobin

> This has been fascinating from start to 'nearly at the finish line' and I just wish I was watching my own instrument being made.  Guys, I took delivery of one of Andy's LBBs a few short months ago and I have to say that it is the best instrument I have ever purchased!  Now I understand more fully where that brilliant sound comes from.  
> BTW Andy, just tried some Elixir strings last time around and I'm delighted with them.  Holding that new sound so much longer, even with my 12-string strumming style not holding back on them...  Looking forward to seeing the next few steps.  Keep up the excellent work and I hope your waiting list is growing and growing....


Hi Brendan, Great to see you on the Café and I'm really happy to hear that the LBB is going well for you. Interesting what you say about Elixir strings. I've not used them before on the bouzoukis, I've always used D'Addario Phos/bronze but I've just had an old instrument in for a service and strung it up with a supplied set of Elixir strings. They sounded really good.

All the best

Andy

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## MichaelW

Great thread Andy.

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Mando-Mauler

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## Mando-Mauler

G'day Andy...following this thread has been very instructive. Every builder has his/her own particular methodology and timbers/materials. I agree with the choice of WRC (Western Red Cedar) - it's a beautiful timber & I am surprised it is not used more often. Builders don't push the envelope enough. I have spent some time researching the construction and sonic theories of Greek & Levantine stringed instruments, including the various styles of bouzouki. There is an amazing number of geographical variations. One thing struck me as being common to most, this being the use of mulberry wood for sides and backs, especially the species generally known as Black Mulberry. A beautiful and visually striking wood with colours in a single piece ranging from a gentle creamy tint immediately abutting a startling chocolate/dark brown with no gradiation between. Check it out! One of these days (ha ha), I will try an experimental mulberry mandolin or mandola body construction with a gutsy top to match - something with cohones like red cedar or King Billy pine. I've tucked away some slabs of black mulberry in the back of my shed which has drying for about 40 years...should be about ready. Should be different. BTW, has anyone out there tried mulberry for any of the mandolin family?

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## Andy Tobin

Hi Everyone Here's the next instalment.....

The bouzouki is now just about ready for finishing, just a final rubdown with 320 and then 400 paper before getting it ready.





Finishing the instrument is something I like to do myself. Spraying is not that difficult, as long as you have reliable compressor powerful enough and a good clean spray gun. These instruments get a lot of hard use (or at least my ones do) so the finish needs to be able to take a bit of punishment without compromising the tone, so finding the right finish is important. There's little doubt that the thinner the better tonally, and a shellac or French polish would be ideal, but it just wouldn't stand up to the use these instruments are subjected to. So for the past 10 years or so I've been using a Morrells two pack AC lacquer. Very tough and resilient, easy and forgiving to spray and with enough build that I don't need to use a grain filler which can be very detrimental to the tone. I also like to use use a satin finish which is beautiful to look at and feels lovely and is FAR less labour intensive than a gloss finish.

So here's the instrument, sprayed up but not polished....



The next job after polishing is to finish off the frets. After the frets have been fitted, the ends will need filing and the surfaces dressed.



If necessary, adjust the truss rod so the neck is perfectly flat and then file the surface of the frets so that they are perfectly flat relative to the adjacent fret. I use a neat little tool for this....



The tool has 4 perfectly ground edges and sits over three frets, each one should be perfectly flat with no rocking. If there is carefully file the centre fret until the rocking disappears, then move on to the next fret and repeat. By the time you've finished you'll have perfectly adjusted frets. Then after re-crowning a good polish with 800 and 1200 paper and 0000 grade wire wool you'll have a perfect fretboard.



Now the fun really starts when it's time to put it all together. First the machine heads go on...



Then the tailpiece. I make this from 16 guage solid brass sheet which I cut and fold to shape. The string holes are drilled and filed smooth, the fixing holes are drilled and countersunk, and then the finished piece is polished. It's a very simple design but works really well providing a good solid fixing for the strings.



Next up is the bridge. This is made from ebony which along with the bone saddle makes for the most efficient way of transferring the vibration from the strings to the top. In this photo I'm routing the compensated slot for the saddle using a simple MDF jig and my trusty Bosch router.



Next is the bone saddle and nut...



And then finally the strings...

All the best

Andy

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fox, 

hank, 

Matt Harris, 

Nick Gellie, 

Reinhardt

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## Reinhardt

Great stuff Andy. I love the look of the cedar top. Might be a stupid question, but how do you polish the body?? do you use a buffing wheel and some sort of compound?? I've heard that some luthiers us a form of compound used to polish cars!!

Quick question re the bridge, do you think full contact between the bridge and the body (that you use) is better than the bridge types that have 2 or 3 points of contact. Hope that makes sense.!!

The owner of this bouzouki is going to love it!! I often wonder do great luthiers like yourself fully realise the joy and endless fun your creations bring to us demanding musicians!!!

All the best Andy, would be great to hear the instrument at some stage.

John

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## Andy Tobin

> Great stuff Andy. I love the look of the cedar top. Might be a stupid question, but how do you polish the body?? do you use a buffing wheel and some sort of compound?? I've heard that some luthiers us a form of compound used to polish cars!!
> 
> Quick question re the bridge, do you think full contact between the bridge and the body (that you use) is better than the bridge types that have 2 or 3 points of contact. Hope that makes sense.!!
> 
> The owner of this bouzouki is going to love it!! I often wonder do great luthiers like yourself fully realise the joy and endless fun your creations bring to us demanding musicians!!!
> 
> All the best Andy, would be great to hear the instrument at some stage.
> 
> John


Hi John - Finishing / spraying / lacquering the instrument is probably the least enjoyable part of the whole process, so when I say I like to do it myself, I don't really, I'd just sooner do it myself rather than hand it over to a total stranger who might dent it, drop it, break it etc.... paranoid, probably !! 

But to answer your question, some years back when I finished my instruments with a high gloss lacquer I did use a polishing compound and buffing wheel. These are helpful to produce a high gloss finish, but the whole process is incredibly labour intensive and therefore costs much more. Grain fillers, many more sprayed coats, lots of cutting back, more spraying, more cutting back, more spraying, leaving it for days to harden, then polishing. Also a high gloss finish needs to be perfect as any flaws stand out like a sore thumb !

The process I use today is still labour intensive, there's no getting around that, but the Morrells lacquer makes life much easier. It's a fairly high build finish so you don't need that many coats, which is a big advantage tonally, it's also fast drying, so you can spray and cut back within a few hours and spray again, and so on until there's enough finish. Cutting back between coats can be done with 320 paper, then after the top coat, 400, 600, 800 grades and finally 0000 wire wool with the grain will give you a beautiful flat satin finish, tough as boots.

Re. the bridge, I've always made them so the entire surface sits on the top. I did experiment a number of years ago with a Mandolin / Jazz guitar style adjustable bridge, but I didn't think it sounded as good.

Yeah, still working on the video. The bouzouki will be with me for a while yet as the new owner is coming over to collect it in a couple of months. I'll get some good shots of it strung up in the next few days.

All the best

Andy

----------

hank, 

Nick Gellie, 

Reinhardt

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## Nick Gellie

I agree about the full contact bridge.  Spreads the load across the top and and thus assists the sound.

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Bob Schmidt, 

Reinhardt

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## Bob Schmidt

Andy,
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I have just started to build a bouzouki to see if I can improve on the sound of my current TC bouzouki. It is refreshing to see that people like yourself are so willing to share the expertise they have developed over the years. I really appreciate it and have learned a lot from reading this.

Thanks for sharing
Bob Schmidt

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## Andy Tobin

> Andy,
> I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I have just started to build a bouzouki to see if I can improve on the sound of my current TC bouzouki. It is refreshing to see that people like yourself are so willing to share the expertise they have developed over the years. I really appreciate it and have learned a lot from reading this.
> 
> Thanks for sharing
> Bob Schmidt


Hi Bob - That's great, I'm really glad that you've enjoyed the posts and have found them helpful. I'll take some shots of the finished instrument and put them up soon.

All the best

Andy

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## Reinhardt

Hi Andy, wheres the photos of the finished instrument!! Get snapping. As you all might have guessed I'm a great fan of Andys work. Here's a great example of one of his bouzoukis being played by Benji Kirkpatrick.. enjoy..

John

----------

Chuck Leyda, 

Simon DS

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## Andy Tobin

Finally got around to taking some finished pics of the bouzouki - I hope you like them. 

All the best

Andy

----------

Chuck Leyda, 

cwboal, 

hank, 

Simon DS

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## Nick Gellie

Absolutely superb photos Andy!

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## fox

Fantastic Andy, good honest work & a great thread for this forum.

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## Reinhardt

“ hey you guys and gals, have a look at this. A pal of mine Seanie McGrath from Clare in Ireland recently commissioned a bouzouki from Andy and look how its shaping up. Andy is incorporating some different woods than normal such as bog oak and sycamore veneers which came from the homestead of my buddy. Looks pretty cool don’t ya think!!” Love the use of the veneers on the headstock. Seanie is counting the days in anticipation of his new baby!!!

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gortnamona

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## Reinhardt

Seanie's bouzouki coming on nicely, nearly there!!! Bog oak rosette, Flamed Maple binding and sycamore on headstock. Looks gorgeous. Nice job Andy!!

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## hassettdes

> Hi Everyone
> 
> I've recently started building a Rosewood and Cedar bouzouki for a list member. So here's a photo diary detailing each stage of it's construction. I hope that you find it interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Here the neck mahogany has been squared and marked up, truss rod inserted and the headstock inlay fitted.....
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Andy, coming a bit late to this  really great thread, just wondering if the heel block is a separate piece glued on and how do you shape it, thanks for the very informative posts
Colm

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## Reinhardt

Hi all, just back from a bouzouki gathering in County Cork, Ireland. 6 members (bouzouki nerds)of the Irish Bouzouki Forum gathered  together in a beautiful rural setting to compare each others bouzoukis. There were tons of them!! All were brilliant and each one had its own different sound and personality. I had my large Body Tobin with me and it was greatly admired by all who were there. Andy makes fantastic instruments and is a true gentleman to boot. Highly recommended. Just ask Manus Lunny!!!!

John

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## Andy Tobin

Hi Colm, Well done for finding this one in the archives!!! Yes, the heel block and neck are all one piece. The heel is marked up using a template and offset the thickness of the sides. I then cut it out carefully on a bandsaw. When the neck and sides are fitted into the jig the sides will fit into the rebate if that makes sense.
Hope that helps.

All best

Andy

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## Wayne C

Andy. Thank you for sharing this build. Im about to start my own build. I would like it to have a fixed bridge with pins. In your opinion am I sacrificing anything by using that over a floating bridge?

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## Andy Tobin

> Andy. Thank you for sharing this build. Im about to start my own build. I would like it to have a fixed bridge with pins. In your opinion am I sacrificing anything by using that over a floating bridge?


Hi Wayne

To be honest I've never been a fan of bouzoukis with pin bridges. To me they just don't sound like a bouzouki should. Much of the characteristic voice of a bouzouki comes from the floating bridge and the pressure of the strings pushing down on the top. The forces on the top are completely different - compression as opposed to shear (guitar bridge). The floating bridge and the compression on the top gives that crisp attack and resonance. Now, don't get me wrong there are some great instruments out there with pin bridges, but if you are after that characteristic punchy bouzouki voice, I'd definitely stick to a floating bridge. The same goes for guitar bouzoukis - to me they all sound like guitars with 8 strings. This is mainly down to the body size and the bridge arrangement.

Your choice of bridge will also affect the bracing pattern that you use for the top. Go with a pattern that best supports the compression of the strings. This isn't necessarily an X bracing pattern. This pattern was developed for guitars and a shear force bridge and isn't really designed to support a downward compression force.

But whatever system you decide to go with, good luck and I hope it turns out well.

All best

Andy

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## Simon DS

> Hi Andy, wheres the photos of the finished instrument!! Get snapping. As you all might have guessed I'm a great fan of Andys work. Here's a great example of one of his bouzoukis being played by Benji Kirkpatrick.. enjoy..
> 
> John



Unfair Reinhardt!
You hear this song, and then it really doesn't matter what the maid looks like.
Though of course, a beautiful instrument too.

Really nice work, Andy.

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