# General Mandolin Topics > Looking for Information About Mandolins >  Acoustic Bass Guitars no mandolin content

## nickster60

I am interested in purchasing a acoustic bass, not a stand up bass. Does anyone have any experience with these bass guitars.

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## Astro

I have been consistently disappointed with all of them (or at least with the usual mass produced suspects at GC). These acoustic basses unplugged are just too quiet to play with others.

I would recommend checking out the Kayla U bass. It needs acoustic amplification for sure but sounds more like an upright bass and has more of a pleasing tone and easier to play than the guitar shaped acoustic basses I've seen. Its fun.

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## dcoventry

http://www.rigelinstruments.com/publish/abg.shtml

There you go.

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## RichM

> http://www.rigelinstruments.com/publish/abg.shtml
> 
> There you go.


Wow! I had not seen that before, and it's a cool idea. So I did a little googling, and holy crap, that thing is BIG!!!

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## allenhopkins

Many companies make "acoustic bass guitars," and, from observation and from reading user evaluations, I'd say that every one I've seen needed to be amplified to provide sufficient volume for ensemble work.   My son had an Asian-made laminated one, and it "worked" in a duet with an acoustic guitar. played gently.  Anything more, and it pretty much disappeared into the mix.

Have heard good things about two discontinued models, the Ernie Ball Earthwood bass and the Tacoma Thunderchief.  Also have heard "pretty good" things about the Taylor bass guitar (also discontinued, I believe).

Small-bodied amplified instruments can have quite a bass presence; I've heard the U-Bass and it does a decent job of counterfeiting a bass fiddle sound.  So does the Guild Ashbory solid-body (reissued by Fender/DeArmond); I own an Ashbory and it works -- amplified.

An acoustic guitar body just doesn't have sufficient vibrating surface or internal volume, to produce the bass response of a bass fiddle.  If you get an acoustic bass guitar, and you don't want to amplify it, be prepared to compromise with a "small" bass sound, both in terms of volume, and of tonal quality.

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## almeriastrings

Plugged in they can sound pretty good. Some sound very good. Much has to do with the transducer and electronics quality. They are usually DI'd straight into the PA. The two nicest one's I've heard were a Breedlove Solo model with cedar top, and a Guild.  I actually liked the Breedlove better - despite it being much less costly than the Guild. To date, that is the nicest one I've seen/heard. Some of the real cheap ones sound pretty nasty. 

Acoustically, of course, as everyone has said, they lack volume and really don't pump out the low stuff like a string bass can. I know a couple of people who have them. For practice sessions,  you can get away with no amplification - but on stage, you'll need it for sure.

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## Mandobart

The Rigel sure looks awesome.  I've never played one.  Of the ABG's I've played, the hand's down best is the Tacoma Thunderchief.  Louder, bassier, better sound than any others.  If you get an Ibanez, Fender, or anything you're likely to find in a music store, it flat out can't be heard without an amp.  Thanks Fender, for buying then closing down Tacoma guitars.

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## almeriastrings

> I would recommend checking out the Kayla U bass. It needs acoustic amplification for sure but sounds more like an upright bass and has more of a pleasing tone and easier to play than the guitar shaped acoustic basses I've seen. Its fun.


Wow. Thanks for highlighting that. For some reason I had never stumbled on those. They do indeed look like a very interesting option!

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## Petrus

Funny, I've been sort of getting the bass bug myself lately. I'm looking at a cheapo (sub-$200) Dean just to play around with and see if I like it or not.

Here's something that at least looks interesting ... Trembita (brand name?) from Ukraine.  I think it's also available with a pickup.  It has a sort of mandoesque look to it, but I don't know what it sounds like.  (Of course you could always go with a mando bass, if they still make 'em. I guess they're stand-up, though.)




http://www.ebay.com/itm/181505458459

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## dang

> Wow. Thanks for highlighting that. For some reason I had never stumbled on those. They do indeed look like a very interesting option!


If you get a chance try an play one... a local store had 2 fretted versions that I thought both had intonation problems up the neck.  Maybe it was my technique, fretting too heavy?  But if you are considering one look into the fretless version.  You might have already seen this review on youtube:

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## James Rankine

I have a cheap one which is fine for playing at home and recording but I never intended performing with it . If you go down this route I can recommend Thomastik acoustic bass strings which do a pretty good job of imitating the more mellow sound of an upright. They have a nylon core with phosphour wound - rather like the bass strings on a classical guitar. They will further rob some of the volume but give a better tone. I had to adjust the trus rod after fitting them as they put a lot less tension on the neck than metal strings. They are not cheap but can transform the sound of even the cheapest of basses.

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## spufman

ABGs are usually very disappointing. I have a Tacoma Thunderchief and like it very much. It plays wonderfully and is loud for an ABG, which is to say it can be heard well enough in a living room with a small not-overzelous group of players. It plugs in and sounds nice if things get louder. The big old Guilds are similarly good. Never came across the rare Earthwood.

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## JH Murray

Has anyone tried putting Ubass strings on a tenor banjo? I got the idea after seeing this home made banjo bass.

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## Nevin

I have an Asian import ply one from Sam Ash (Brownsville brand).  The craftmanship is pretty poor but it is louder than any other I have played.  I use tapewound strings on it which give it a decent imitation of a real DB.  The volume is OK if played with a guitar or two for fun but as others have pointed out it does not have the volume for a gig.  It is extremly prone to feedback when amplified.  I have fun with it but would be inclined to just go with tapewounds on an electric bass for a gig.

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## Mandomonte

You might look into the Kala ubass. I just sold one,v to a friend after advertising it on here with no responses. Quiet enough to practice on unplugged, but sound quite upright with several bass amps. Took mine to a few b.g.banks when I got it, where it was pretty much dismissed as "cute". Two years later several have up at BLUEGRASS festival. Lots of videos on utube of them.

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## nickster60

The reason I am asking I am doing a little project with my wife. I would like to play a little back up to a acoustic guitar song she is working on. I would be nice to not have to plug in and bass amps tend to rattle the house. Since the opinion of most  is the ABG arent very good. It might just be better to buy a used electric bass for the project and run it through a Bass amp app and output to a speaker source. We also may record the song into garage band.Maybe a used Fender J or P bass or even Ibanez.

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## RichM

> The reason I am asking I am doing a little project with my wife. I would like to play a little back up to a acoustic guitar song she is working on. I would be nice to not have to plug in and bass amps tend to rattle the house. Since the opinion of most  is the ABG arent very good. It might just be better to buy a used electric bass for the project and run it through a Bass amp app and output to a speaker source. We also may record the song into garage band.Maybe a used Fender J or P bass or even Ibanez.


Yup, as a bass player myself, I can concur that there really aren't many acoustic bass options except for the ol' stand-up bass. There's a reason those things are so big! The Rigel looks like a very interesting option, but the size and price are not for the casual player.

I play with a rock combo and we occasionally play unplugged. I play a Fender American Special Jazz Bass through a 30 watt Hartke combo amp with a 10-inch speaker. Yes, you lose some of the "thump" you'd get with a bigger rig, but it provides just the right amount of volume to play with an acoustic combo without overwhelming the sound.

The Kala UBass mentioned here is one of a family of short-scale basses that use silicone strings that allow a good bass sound on a very small instrument. The chubby silicone strings do take some getting used to (and they never-- NEVER-- stop stretching, so I hope you enjoy retuning), but the sound is a reasonable approximation of that smooth stand-up bass tone, and hangs back nicely in an acoustic environment, even amplified.

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## wildpikr

Thinking outside the box a little, do you know any mariachi players?  Maybe you could borrow a guitarrón :Mandosmiley:

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Jim, 

nickster60

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## nickster60

RichM

I played bass many years ago and migrated to other instruments. I had some nice bass guitars in the the day Spector, Fender J and a Musicman. How are the lower end Fender bass guitars today are there any others you would recommend.

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## spufman

Yeah, my Tacoma is cool but for guaranteed audible bass that transports easily and is comfortable, I will generally bring an electric. If really going for an upright-esque sound, either my fretless or my short scale with flats works best, though any of them are fine with appropriate muting and plucking technique. The Roland Microcube amps are surprisingly good, if you need to run on batteries.

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## Jacob

The only acoustic bass guitar I have found that produced acceptable acoustic volume levels was an Ernie Ball Earthwood played at NAMM 1975. These are massive and they seldom appear for sale.

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## bassthumper

if you can find one of the (no longer produced) Taylors....they have a bigger sound chamber and push more air...

I have an older Martin B-1... great sound & a dream to play but not loud enough in a crowd...I'm in a wheelchair now so the upright is unmanagable...I'm looking at putting onboard preamp/pickup on it and hanging a battery/bass amp on the back of my wheelchair//

If you go the acoustic bassroute make sure you get the 34" scale...and check out Breedloves fretless

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## Gerry Cassidy

I am a bassist, and made a living as a studio hound for 20+ years. For many of those years I banged my head against the wall trying to find an acoustic bass that did anything other than look really cool. No luck.

Basses have to be felt as much as heard. The only person that feels an acoustic bass when it isn't plugged in is the player. Also, if there is more than one other instrument being played very quietly you will not be heard if you are not plugged in.

As for being plugged in; In my opinion, these basses sound like guano. There is only one pick-up I have come across that can come close to capturing the bass frequency spectrum and it isn't cheap; the David Gage Realist which isn't designed for acoustic guitar-styled basses anyway.

I would get a P Bass, or if you *HAVE* to have an acoustic I definitely *wouldn't* spend the money it would take to get into a Larrivee, Taylor, Martin, or Tacoma acoustic bass. Don't get me wrong; they are nicely made instruments, but in reality they aren't really good for much.

Again, if you HAVE to have one, the best all-around model (playability/ cost) I have owned was an Epiphone El Capitan. The little Kala's are pretty cool, but as with every small builder who gets their 15 minutes of fame because of the internet, they shot their prices way up. I wouldn't pay for one these days. They aren't very versatile, either. 

A P Bass would be what I would throw in the gig bag. Make sure to throw a string sponge in the pocket for the thumpy URB tone and you're good to go. 

Still, if you want to get your acoustic bass ya-ya's out, there may be a couple others out there that are playable, but whatever you end up with I wouldn't spend more than $300, maybe $400 all tolled.

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Petrus

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## nickster60

Any thoughts on the J bass vs the P bass. I think I have given up on the acoustic bass idea.

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## Gerry Cassidy

It depends on what you want to do with it, what style of music, etc. 

I recommend you go on over to TalkBass.com. It's the equivalent of the Mando Cafe for bassists.

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## ombudsman

I love the U bass. I have the all mahogany version. 

As for full size acoustic bass guitars, I've played many, the best ones acoustically are the Guild B-30 and B-50. But even those are really only useful three ways - for practice by yourself, for recording picked up by a microphone, or amplified.

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## spufman

P-bass necks are traditionally beefier and a bit wider at the nut compared to a J neck, but these days there are so many options with neck shapes. As far a basic tone, I find the P To sit real nicely _in_ the mix versus the J which I find can honk nicely _through_ the mix. Of course, those are just the most basic generalizations. I'm a J guy for sure. So many people (Jamerson, Paladino and a zillion others) make the P sound so perfect, but I just never like the way I sound playing a P. It's me, you gotta check 'em out yourself. And not just solo, you need to see how they fit in the context of who you're playing with. There are a boatloads of other pickup options as well (my #1 is a Musicman, but I have Zon, G&L, Fender and a host of others). Check out the G&L offerings - traditional designs with strong, versatile pickups. A used SB-2 would do anyone well on the cheap.

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## mandroid

traditional guitarrón    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitarr%C3%B3n_mexicano

 and there is a Bass  Balalaika too ..

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## mandroid

:Whistling:

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## foldedpath

nickster60, if you're going the electric route with a P or J bass, try one with a fretless fingerboard and tapewound strings. I have a J bass I put together from parts many years ago, fretless with La Bella tapewounds. It won't fool someone with a good ear for the real upright bass sound, but it gets pretty close. I like the sound of that much better than amplified acoustic bass guitars I've heard. I just run the bass straight into a tube DI and into the recording interface, or PA mixer. 

I've never tried a Kala U bass or seen one in person, but I don't think I'd trust my intonation well enough to play fretless on that short a scale. I don't play bass very often, so I need room to fudge it, on the longer scale.
 :Wink: 

I can get a lot closer to a real upright bass with a guitar synth and a good sampled VSTi instrument, but that's another whole bucket of worms. If you're not already into sampled instruments with a keyboard or guitar synth to drive it, then it's probably not worth the hassle of getting into that world.

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## Petrus

Another point to mention, often overlooked: (E)UBs permit playing in both pizzacato (plucked/slapped) and arco (bowed) manner due to their curved bridge and fingerboard. Bass guitars (and bass mandos, iirc) can only be played pizzacato.  In some styles this can be an issue to consider.

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## Ryk Loske

Petrus' point relative to arco and pizz is an important one.

For acoustic bass if you're not going to get an upright then the Rigel ABG is the way to go.  I own an Upton upright, have played just about all the acoustic bass guitars out there and have one of the toy like Kala style instruments and watched as Pete developed the ABG and played a few of them.  (Yes .. they look big ... but they've been designed in a way to make them incredibly comfortable to play.) With the exception of it not being able to do arco (though Pete said he could probably set one up so that it was possible) it comes closest to the sound of a real bass.

Ryk

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## nickster60

I have decided to go the electric bass route. The Kala is a cool little instrument but and it does sound great. But at $400.00 there are lots of pretty decent used electric bass guitars out there. The electric bass just seems more versatile that the acoustic bass or the Kala bass. The acoustic bass is a great idea but I haven't heard many good things about them.

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## Gerry Cassidy

> I have decided to go the electric bass route. The Kala is a cool little instrument but and it does sound great. But at $400.00 there are lots of pretty decent used electric bass guitars out there. The electric bass just seems more versatile that the acoustic bass or the Kala bass. The acoustic bass is a great idea but I haven't heard many good things about them.


Good call. This is the best way for getting into the world of bass. Get yourself something to mess around with. Then, if you find yourself enjoying it you can start dabbling in all the other cool hipster stuff that was mentioned in the various posts.

Something to think about when you are shopping for a bass;

The P Bass pick-up config is a single humbucker. About as basic as an electric comes. One volume, and one tone pot. It also gives you a fat, solid bottom-end tone. 

The Jazz config is a little more elaborate. It has 2 single-coil pick-ups. Not as "Fat" as the P, yet cuts through the mix a little better. 

Try to play before you buy. Bass electronics are notorious for being noisy. Especially the single-coil set ups.  Poor shielding is the usual cause.

There's a whole bunch more of this type of info at Talk Bass.  

Whatever you end up with have fun!

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## your_diamond

The EKO BA-4 is as close to the sound of a double bass as it gets.   http://www.ekobass.co.uk/about.html 
Make sure you get one that says "Made in Italy" (circa 1978 - 1987), I can't vouch for the made in China versions. Both Italian and Chinese can be found on eBay but the Italian made BA-4 does show up (about one every couple of months) on eBay USA or the United Kingdom eBay for around $400 to $800 USD, which is a good value considering the new Chinese ones are just under $500. 
James Rankine is right, I use a set of Thomastik AB344 strings on my BA-4. I also agree with Allen Hopkins, this bass works in a duet with an acoustic guitar, played gently... up to a medium volume, anything more and you might want to stick a Piezo microphone in there. One of the reasons people like the sound of these basses is the full 34 inch neck length. Most acoustic basses have 32 inch or 30 inch neck lengths which sound muddy by comparison. I have owned eight of these. They made fretted, fretless and very few 6 string basses.

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allenhopkins

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## your_diamond

Here is an EKO BA-4 similar to the one in Tony Bacon's 'Ultimate Guitar Book', on eBay's Germany site...   http://r.ebay.com/14sZlJ

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## Paul Kotapish

I own an inexpensive Epiphone El Capitan and I've played a bunch of other brands/models and would agree that as purely acoustic instruments, acoustic bass guitars do not deliver enough sound for anything other than the smallest/quietest session.

With even a small amp, however, my experience is that they can hold their own just fine. I've used a tiny battery-powered unit (Pignose, Marshall, et al) at a variety of loud acoustic sessions and it's worked great. Many of the little battery units are small enough to tuck unobtrusively under a chair and stay largely invisible.

The couple of Martin bass guitars I've played--both fretted and fretless--were really nice, although once you plug in, the subtleties are kind of lost, so I'd go for the bargain instrument to start with. 

My current preference for a woody-sounding bass instrument is a Hofner "Beatle" bass through an a small amp. It plays like a dream and has a very nice, acoustic thump. They were designed to be an alternative to an acoustic bass, and they manage that pretty well. The German-made basses are pretty expensive, but there are some cheaper Chinese versions that sound OK, too.

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## Petrus

Recently I've been considering an acoustic bass, with the idea of retuning it CGDA, making sort of a bass mandola out of it.  It would be close enough to the standard tuning that the strings wouldn't be too floppy or tight.  (Tuning the low E down to C might be a bit floppy, maybe.)

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## EdSherry

As others have said, most of them don't have enough volume to be heard if the music gets at all loud.   There are a few exceptions, none of them in current production.  Over the years I've acquired two Taylors, a Guild B-30, a Tacoma Thunderchief and an old Ernie Ball Earthwood that I've had for 30 years.  (I've played but never owned a Martin acoustic bass.)  The Earthwood is the biggest (and loudest) of the bunch, with the Tacoma second.  None is loud enough for a bluegrass band/jam when played acoustically.  Over the years I've used all of them for live gigs in a duo/trio context, and occasionally for recording (the Taylors are especially nice for that), but ordinarily when I need a bass sound I play either my old Engelhart upright or an electric upright or stick to an electric bass ( a Fender P with an aftermarket P/J pickup setup is my mainstay, though I have a Parker bass that I like a lot).

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## Gerry Cassidy

Acoustic Electric basses are what they are. They have their own place in the world of musical instruments, but when they start being compared to acoustic upright basses, well, it's not even close. Scale length (all of the PacRim AE basses are 34"), elaborate pick up / preamp electronics, whatever. It's not even close. 

I try not to be too critical. I think they are a great tool for someone whom bass is not their first instrument, or aren't too worried about the tone. But saying you have one that sounds like, or even close to an URB? I say; "Get yourself an URB and play it for awhile. Your opinion will change"

When I played for a living I had to have authentic instruments. Trying to use "replacements" was the best way to get your name taken off call lists. I have owned a handful of URB's throughout the years, I had to mortgage the house to pay for a couple of them  :Disbelief:  , and there never was anything that wasn't an URB that came close to sounding like any of them. A friend of mine, Steve Azola used to make electric upright basses and I had him make a couple for me; I still own one of his floating top 5 string basses. I was hoping I could use it instead of having to haul around an URB. It turns out I could get away with using it for live gigs, but if I brought one to a studio gig it stayed in the case. Most engineers, or producers really didn't like them and wouldn't record them. Steve was one of the best bass luthiers available. His stuff is immaculate, incredibly well-engineered and even he will tell you there is nothing out there that sounds like an Acoustic Upright Bass.  

To those who play acoustic guitar basses, play on and make great music, I say!  :Mandosmiley:   But don't think your bass sounds like anything other than an acoustic electric bass being represented through a piezo.

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## your_diamond

Getting an ABG to sound like an upright bass is like getting a mandolin to sound like a guitar. We are talking ABG's with a string length of 34" (Guild B-50's are only 30 1/2") & a 3/4 to 4/4 stand up bass having a scale length between 41.3  43.3 inches. Still if you are playing in a band with horns, even a double bass will have to plug in. I saw Ron Carter play at the Blue Note & as small as that club is, he was plugged in.

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## Nevin

Generaly I agree that an ABG is not going to sound like an UB (and I play one).  However, my cheap pacrim ABG with a 35" scale and tapewound string is a lot closer than I ever would expect.  If it were a fretles I think I could fool people in a blind sample.  It is however too quiet for a gig and a feedback mchine when amplified.

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## Steve Ostrander

I had a Dean Playmate AE bass. It was disappointing. A friend had a Luna AE. "Bout the same.

As far a Jazz vs. Precision, you just have to try them and see which you prefer. I'm a Jazz man.

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## Petrus

I'm looking more in terms of a solo instrument (since I'm not good enough to play with anyone anyway, lol.)  Anyway, when I do record, I lay down each track separately (since I can only play one thing at a time obviously) so any loudness issues would be dealt with in the editing suite.  I just like that low, bassy sound, but I want to keep the mando connection via alternate tuning (and also get one with a lute/mando shaped body.)

For upright, the NS Design EUB is on my wish list (but not in the near future.)



http://www.amazon.com/NS-Design-Stri.../dp/B003EV6EG6

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## Charles E.

I played a Gold Tone Microbass at a local guitar shop and was impressed..........

http://www.goldtone.com/products/det.../494/MicroBass

I play a 1/2 size upright and the smaller size does help in schlepping it around and it has enough volume to support an eight piece string band.

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Gerry Cassidy

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## Petrus

Yeah, reminds me of the Kala U-bass.  I've played the Kala in a store. Those rubber band strings look (and sound) cool.

I'm attracted to the fretless look and feel.  Have you seen this fretted/fretless convertible bass? The frets automatically retract into the fingerboard when you want to go fretless. Amazing.

http://www.mikeyguitar.com/

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## Dave Hanson

It baffles me why someone would post about an acoustic bass in a section specifically titled ' looking for information about mandolins '

Did you not understand the heading ?

Dave H

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## Petrus

From his sig, it's clearly someone familiar with the place and who already owns several mandos.  Hey, we can _try_ to convert him to getting a bass mando, I suppose.  I'm interested in a sort of bass mandola (if that's the term?), CGDA but in the bass octave range. So there's that.

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## your_diamond

> Generaly I agree that an ABG is not going to sound like an UB (and I play one).  However, my cheap pacrim ABG with a 35" scale and tapewound string is a lot closer than I ever would expect.  If it were a fretles I think I could fool people in a blind sample.


Strings do make a huge difference. So if you want a UB sound use strings similar to UB strings. NYLON CORE! 
That is the only reason I would spend $69.00 (cheapest on eBay) on a set of Thomastik Acousticore (Nylon Core) Bass Strings Bronze Wound AB344. I can not stress this enough HUGE DIFFERENCE. 

I have thought about trying a set of LaBella 1006 SET ORCH BASS SUPERNIL STANDARD 3/4 but have never tried them for two reasons. They cost $100 & they might not be the correct thickness for an ABG.

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## Nevin

> I'm looking more in terms of a solo instrument (since I'm not good enough to play with anyone anyway, lol.)  Anyway, when I do record, I lay down each track separately (since I can only play one thing at a time obviously) so any loudness issues would be dealt with in the editing suite.  I just like that low, bassy sound, but I want to keep the mando connection via alternate tuning (and also get one with a lute/mando shaped body.)
> 
> For upright, the NS Design EUB is on my wish list (but not in the near future.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/NS-Design-Stri.../dp/B003EV6EG6


I would tend to avoid instuments like this unless space is of prime importance.  You can get a decent real upright bass with a pickup and pre-amp for less.  I have looked at the NS design and doubt that you could bow it decently. The overstand is just too low.  Even if you only want to play pitz, bowing is a big help in developing good intonation.

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## oldwave maker

Took the home made walnut/carpathian deep body triple 0 size 30.5" scale abg tuned up a 4th to adgc on the last rafting trip. Has endgrain walnut frets. Not a wine bar dance party tool, but worked ok on the sandbars.  '51 pbass pu in the soundhole makes for a thumping stage prop plugged in. Mandatory mandolin content- 2 old waves, sounded drier the farther you hiked from the river!

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## eadg145

I'm with Rich and Gerry on this one.  As a longtime bass player, I've played quite a few basses of all configurations.  In general, the acoustic bass guitars (ABGs) don't generate enough sound acoustically to cut through with multiple other instruments.  There are very few exceptions (Guild B30, Earthwood, and particularly Dave Maize), but you're getting into boutique pricing and that doesn't seem to fit the application you're describing.  I've also found that once you start plugging in the various ABGs that have electronics, you don't really get a sound different from a solidbody  electric anyway.

I went on a multi-year quest for an ABG, and I finally ended up with a full custom commission from Orien MacDonald, whom I met right here on Mandolin Cafe back in 2006 or so.  Among its many features is a rather huge body, which generates the note swell I want, and enough volume to be played acoustically in a small venue with up to two guitars or a mandolin and a guitar.  Beyond that, I'd need amplification, too.

For the application you described (backing your wife on guitar), I recommend you get a fretless Fender Precision bass.  This will be very easy to put into your mix, and will play well inside GarageBand or whatever you are using.  (I also use a Tech21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI with a P bass for recording.)  You will almost certainly get the sound you want for accompanying your wife.  Plus, the whole system is portable, and useful in a wide variety of applications.  The other basses have their pros and cons, but from what (little) you described, the fretless P bass is your ticket.

(And Rich, congrats on the Beardsell in your avatar.  I was stalking that one for a bit!)

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## allenhopkins

The other, sorta weird, potential alternative -- and one that has some appeal for a mandolin player used to a shorter scale -- is an *Ashbory bass.*  Designed in England, they were sold by Guild for years, discontinued, picked up again by Fender/DeArmond, and again discontinued.  But there are a bunch of them around.

I have one of the earlier Guild Ashbory instruments, and it has a very acoustic-bass-like sound, with a scale hardly longer than a mandolin's.  It has an piezo pickup, and what I'd guess (experts -- jump in and correct me!) sort of on-board pre-amp that boosts the piezo signal; my old Guild puts out a weak signal with the power (9v battery) turned off, but a quite adequate one with the power on.  I believe the later DeArmond basses turned on when their cords were plugged in; mine has a switch.

Now, I don't use mine much (read: almost never), but when I do, it's not that far from the sound of my (aluminum, yes it is!) bass fiddle, even through a small amp speaker.  And the Ashbory's small, light-weight, and lovably weird-looking.

Ashbory basses turn up used for $300 or less.  The Kala U-Bass silicone rubber strings work on the Ashbory as well.

My love of odd instruments has led me down some strange paths, but the Ashbory bass is useful as well as weird, IMHO.

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Petrus

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## RichM

> It baffles me why someone would post about an acoustic bass in a section specifically titled ' looking for information about mandolins '
> 
> Did you not understand the heading ?
> 
> Dave H


Not half as baffling as why someone would enter a thread clearly titled, "Acoustic Bass Guitars no mandolin content" and complain that it's about Acoustic Bass Guitars and has no mandolin content!  :Laughing:

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Nevin, 

Petrus

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## eadg145

I quite like my Ashbory bass, particularly for the "upright sound".  That being said, it's a pretty tricky instrument to play well, considering the short scale, the strange silicone strings, the repeated tuning, and the incorrectly printed fret lines.  If you're already a fretless bass player, you will probably like it.  If not, it'll probably be a short-lived tool for you.

I bought mine brand new from largesound.com (NFI).  I just checked, and NEW ones there are $327.

(Once you become good at it, though, the Ashbory is a real kick.  It often gets odd looks and comments from unknowing bandmates.  However, once you plug it in and start playing, you get a VERY different response!)

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## Petrus

Interesting -- I didn't know those rubber band strings have been around so long. I first saw them on the Kala U-Bass this year and thought they were a new invention.  Apparently they've been around since the '80s with Guild, as allenhopkins pointed out.  I wouldn't mind finding an old Guild version in natural wood color.  I never could get into instruments in blue, green, etc. for some reason.

http://uniqueguitar.blogspot.com/200...bory-bass.html

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allenhopkins

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## spufman

I've also got an old Guild Ashbory and can attest to its upright sound and pia tuning. But lots of fun and gets the looks, for sure!

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## allenhopkins

> ...I wouldn't mind finding an old Guild version in natural wood color.  I never could get into instruments in blue, green, etc. for some reason.


I think only the prototype was "natural wood."  Most of the Guilds I saw were black (as is mine), though they were cataloged in a variety of colors, as are/were the more recent Fender/DeArmonds.

Commenters at bass websites say the new DeArmond models have better tuners than the old Guilds.  I've only played my old one, so I can't evaluate their opinion.

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## ombudsman

Ashbory basses were designed around silicone rubber strings. The U bass strings are made of polyurethane. 

I think the U bass is the better of the two, but that is not entirely an apples to apples comparison because the Ashbory is solid and I have not played a solid body U bass, only the hollow one. 

A lot of the difference in sound I would attribute to the pickup. Piezos and preamps designed for them have gotten better since the 80s. Newer Ashbory basses might be better than the old ones, I don't know.

I'm an upright bassist first. Nothing can impersonate an upright with bright sounding steel strings, but for the gut/nylon core/fabric coated/other "fake gut" upright bass sound, and comparing amplified sound to amplified sound, it can be imitated quite closely with a U bass. You could easily tell them apart side by side if nothing else was going on, but in a band mix and given the way an upright usually sounds through an amp in a small club, it would be very difficult to tell which is which based on sound alone.

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## re simmers

I recently bought a Gold Tone Micro bass for my wife.   It is great for small gigs.   We tried it at church but it just did not have the volume, but maybe we need help with running it through the sound system.

For church she went to a fender 4 string electric that I've had for about 15 years.

But, I still prefer that she play her 1962 Kay Upright.    I hate lugging it around (while she carries my mandolin), but it is a great instrument.   Plus, she plays some with a bow.

Bob

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## your_diamond

Then there is always this... from an original Gibson Catalog U from 1932 on eBay, the bass banjo

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## Gerry Cassidy

> I'm an upright bassist first. Nothing can impersonate an upright with bright sounding steel strings, but for the gut/nylon core/fabric coated/other "fake gut" upright bass sound, and comparing amplified sound to amplified sound, it can be imitated quite closely with a U bass. You could easily tell them apart side by side if nothing else was going on, but in a band mix and given the way an upright usually sounds through an amp in a small club, it would be very difficult to tell which is which based on sound alone.



You're a better man than me. I could never emulate my URB right hand technique on the rubber string contraptions. Regardless of how they are projected. Right hand is as, or more important in bringing out what an URB can do. IMO, and many of my teachers/mentors.

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## Nevin

I think we are coming down to a discussion of how close is close enough.

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## Petrus

> I think only the prototype was "natural wood."  Most of the Guilds I saw were black (as is mine), though they were cataloged in a variety of colors, as are/were the more recent Fender/DeArmonds.


Black is good too for solid-body composite instruments like these.  I'd go for transparent acrylic too.  :Cool:

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## Dave Hanson

Curiosity Rich M just curiosity.

Dave H

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## almeriastrings

Curiosity got the better of me and I grabbed one of these to play with:

 

 

This is a silly cheap "Harley Benton" (Thomann's own brand) 'version' of the U-Bass. It does have a very good, genuine B-Band transducer and preamp built, in however - these alone sell for $100.... and this whole thing only cost $150! Add in the tuners, and the Thundergut string set, and they are virtually paying you to take it away  :Laughing: 

Bear in mind I am not a great bass player, and lack the golden ears and 'feel' for the instrument that a seasoned pro will have. However... while very anemic acoustically, plugged in through a really good PA - surprisingly OK sounding. With a bit of tweaking on the desk, this thing sounds _a lot_ closer to an upright bass than the vast majority of standard electric bass guitars I've heard or tried. It may not be the epitome of bass tones or performance, but heck... I've heard worse, many times. Conclusion: very useful and workable little box. Does a passable job and you can't beat the size advantage. Might seriously consider trying one of the genuine Kala's.....

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## James Rankine

Almeria - unbelievable value. The nylon core strings I bought to get my acoustic bass to sound passable cost nearly half the price of your whole instrument. Did you go for the fretted or frettless? - I can't tell from the pics if those are markers or frets. Mind you at that price you could get one of each. I wish you hadn't posted this - another instrument is just what I don't need.

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## almeriastrings

I got the fretted one, but a fretless is also available. Same price.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_bent...lu_bass_fl.htm 

Here's the pickup by itself...

http://www.thomann.de/gb/b_band_u15t...pickup_set.htm

Setup out of the box was playable, but did a bit of surgery on the nut to get it just right. Frets were well-installed and nicely finished. Intonation seems fine. Should be toy, really, at that price, but you can get some quite convincing sounds from it and while 'fit and finish' is not exactly up to Collings standards (to say the least), it is quite adequate for beginners and I have no doubt it could be gigged too.

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## Petrus

The Harley Bentons look like a good deal, but they seem to be UK based and I think the exchange rate, shipping and customs would probably kill any savings over the Kala.  Now, if someone were to make one with a mando-shaped body ... hmm.

Anyway, now for some obligatory mando content ... an interesting mandobass.



http://www.joshuavt.com/category/hearfind-me/page/2/

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## almeriastrings

They're in Germany... but yes. 

Makes a pleasant change from the usual situation, though, where the best deals are in the US and shipping and import taxes to the EU rule out taking advantage of them.  :Wink:

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## ombudsman

> You're a better man than me. I could never emulate my URB right hand technique on the rubber string contraptions. Regardless of how they are projected. Right hand is as, or more important in bringing out what an URB can do. IMO, and many of my teachers/mentors.


I've probably just got more time on a U bass. 
The thing about that is you have to use a different technique with much less right hand finger movement and at a different angle*, so it's not so much about using your existing URB technique as it is finding a new one that sounds like it using almost no force. It feels like you are simply pulling away your fingertips instead of explicitly plucking. Those strings bounce around pretty freely, they don't need much encouragement. 

And if your style involves creating some growl by the way you roll off your left hand fingers (which is more of a steel string technique anyway), that won't work at all on a U bass. 

*It's also fun to sit the butt of the U bass on your left calf and play it in an upright position

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Gerry Cassidy

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## steve V. johnson

> The reason I am asking I am doing a little project with my wife. I would like to play a little back up to a acoustic guitar song she is working on. I would be nice to not have to plug in and bass amps tend to rattle the house. Since the opinion of most  is the ABG arent very good. It might just be better to buy a used electric bass for the project and run it through a Bass amp app and output to a speaker source. We also may record the song into garage band.Maybe a used Fender J or P bass or even Ibanez.


Get a friend to play bass with you.  Friends helping friends with music is more fun (IMO) than going out and buying another instrument.   If you get a double bassist it'll be great fun.

I have a Tacoma Thunderchief, and got lucky and found an all-mahogany one remaindered from a closing dealer on eBay.  I really like it a lot.  I didn't really expect that it would be very audible acoustically, but I've found that in some cases it really is.  

Most of the ABGs I've seen come with huge roundwound strings and those completely defeated me at getting nice sounds from them, well... other than just a couple of bright/mid-rangey ones.  I messed with flats and finally put RotoSound black tape wound strings on the Tacoma and I'm quite happy with it.  It won't do contemporary slap&pop stuff but I've found it quite versatile for acoustic musics, and the lows are so rich that I can use small amps (which I like, too!) and groove without lots of volume.  It does not sound like a double bass, tho I can sort of evoke that if requested.  That wasn't my intention for this one.   

It's light, tho huge, and I really enjoy the lightness of it.  I found a Levy gigbag for it that has backpack straps and that's about the best way to carry it, because of its size.  I'd love to find an all-mahogany Tacoma 5-string, but Tacoma ownership has changed, and so have the instruments have, too.  They're getting more rare.

The Breedloves, even after the corporate change, are nice, and inexpensive.  They're smaller than the Tacoma and there are several different models.   I liked the cedar-topped ones.  Before the change they made some nice five-string models, but I think they may have discontinued those, tho I hope not.

Cheers,
stv

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## Petrus

Having a bit of a theoretical tuning crisis here (relatively low on the scale of crises, granted.)  Here's what Wiki has to say about the mandobass:




> There are three main variants of the mandobass:
> 
> The large four-string mandobass has a much longer neck and is tuned EADG, like a double bass. It was popular in early 20th century American and European mandolin ensembles.[1] Early examples had very large bodies and were often played in an upright position like a double bass is. Later examples often have smaller bodies and are intended to be played guitar style.
> 
> The small four-string mandobass is identical, but built on a smaller scale and usually tuned GDAE, two octaves below the mandolin. Though not as resonant as the larger instrument, payers often preferred it as easier to handle and more portable.
> 
> The eight-string mandobass, or tremolo-bass, relatively rare, is built exactly like a mandolin but is much larger and tuned either GDAE, two octaves lower than the mandolin, or CGDA, two octaves below the mandola.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandobass

Now, I have no way to confirm any of the above, having never seen any of the three mentioned mandobasses in person, so I'm hoping some experts here (where else?) can help out.  I'm interested in the bass but want to maintain the 5ths tuning, which (IMO) is what would make it part of the mando family rather than just a funny shaped UB.  I can tune a bass guitar (or uke) to CGDA using the given strings, but no way is it going to go to GDAE without different strings.  Any advice?  (I'm talking bass guitar body style here; I don't think I could find or afford an actual mandobass, or have room for one.)

Also, has anyone seen or heard a tremolo-bass or eight-stringed mandobass?

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## ombudsman

> Now, I have no way to confirm any of the above, having never seen any of the three mentioned mandobasses in person, so I'm hoping some experts here (where else?) can help out.  I'm interested in the bass but want to maintain the 5ths tuning, which (IMO) is what would make it part of the mando family rather than just a funny shaped UB.  I can tune a bass guitar (or uke) to CGDA using the given strings, but no way is it going to go to GDAE without different strings.  Any advice?  (I'm talking bass guitar body style here; I don't think I could find or afford an actual mandobass, or have room for one.)
> 
> Also, has anyone seen or heard a tremolo-bass or eight-stringed mandobass?


It shouldn't be too hard to get a bass guitar to a GDAE tuning with custom strings. But I think you'll find that at 30 to 34 inches scale length, there is a lot of left hand jumping around to do, and it's still not going to be anything like a mandolin as far as anyone can see or hear. I understand that it would allow you to keep existing knowledge of the fingerboard.

I haven't seen an 8 string version, but there is a 6 string berde on ebay right now (poorly described and in near basket case condition), which is more or less of a mandobass.  It's made for 3 doubled strings.

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## mandotim1955

My wife plays a U-bass. Hers is the Ortega 'Lizard' bass, and it's just superb. German company, and reasonably priced. She is using the Aquila 'Thunder Reds' strings, which are polyurethane impregnated with copper to give a greater mass. This enables the strings to be a little thinner, and they play a lot easier than the standard poly strings. I bought it for me, but she decided she was the bass player in the house....

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## Sven the Impaler

Martin Brunkalla makes the most amazing acoustic bass guitars - the Bullfrog.

Played one at a bluegrass fest near Chicago (where he is based).

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## Petrus

I ended up getting a nice Johnson JG 785 acoustic bass guitar.  Supposedly they retail for $400-600 (though I had a hard time finding much about them online), I snagged one off eBay for $90 with a broken neck.  Slathered a ton of JB Weld two-part epoxy (steel and hardener) on both exposed breaks (luckily no one had tried to fix it prior to my purchase, so the wood mated perfectly), C-clamped it for 48 hours (with protective cauls on the clamps obviously); strung it up today (_very_ cautiously, keeping it pointed away from my face!) and so far it hasn't exploded, so I'm hoping it works.  End result, a $400+ bass for under a hundred bucks to play around with and decide if this instrument is for me.



I'm loving that low-end sound.  I like that it's quiet for late-night practicing; it's got a pickup and onboard EQ if I decide to amp it.

*Obligatory mandolin content*: Yes, I am still interested in doing mandobass (GDAE) or mandolabass (CGDA) tuning (which was the whole point in the first place.)  I'm using the old strings it came with for now just as a test in standard bass guitar tuning; I'm waiting to be sure the thing doesn't completely fall apart on me before I invest in any new strings, etc.

I may end up selling it down the road and investing in something like this Trembita bass:



I like the mando-like body and head scroll, and would tune it CGDA or GDAE.

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## Astro

> Martin Brunkalla makes the most amazing acoustic bass guitars - the Bullfrog.
> 
> Played one at a bluegrass fest near Chicago (where he is based).



Its a lap full:

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## Astro

Another better than average:

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Petrus

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## Astro

Stoll Acoustic bass guitar. Sounds great but Its huge:

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## Petrus

Yep, Breedlove fretless FTW ... when I can afford one someday.  (I like Guild too.)

That huge-bodied one could be better played on the floor, with a spike like a cello. Some vintage big guitars used to be played that way.

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## Gerry Cassidy

> Another better than average:


Being a big Kim Breedlove fan, I tried 2 of these; one of these 4 string fretless and a 5 string fretted... meh. I didn't own either of them for very long.

I don't think you can get the 5-string any longer. Could be wrong on that one. 

They're cheap (PacRim) and they look cool, but you get what you pay for.

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bassthumper

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## Petrus

> Being a big Kim Breedlove fan, I tried 2 of these; one of these 4 string fretless and a 5 string fretted... meh. I didn't own either of them for very long. I don't think you can get the 5-string any longer. Could be wrong on that one.  They're cheap (PacRim) and they look cool, but you get what you pay for.


That's disappointing to hear. I like Breedlove for their mandos (& I've heard their guitars are good too.)  But almost everyone feels that acoustic basses are tough to get right.

BTW, here's a version of Soldier's Joy that approximates the sound I'm going for.  It's at 25% pitch and speed, with some echo added.  I also rigged up a 12% version, but it goes a little too far into weird alien spaces.  

https://soundcloud.com/nadamegha1089...pitchspeedecho

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## allenhopkins

> Stoll Acoustic bass guitar. Sounds great but *it's huge*...


And that is, really, the point.  To approximate the sound of the "stand-up" bass fiddle, you have to approximate the size of its vibrating surface and the depth of its sound-box.  Otherwise, you get a sound similar to playing the bass strings of a normal guitar, with a bit more bass overtone because of heavier, longer strings, but not much of the volume and deep-end resonance that a bass fiddle player delivers.

So the more effective "acoustic bass guitars" may be the biggest -- also leading them to be a bit awkward to handle.  Very good reasons that nearly all of them have built-in pickups, and get played through amps.  The oversized hybrids pictured here may be "huge" out of necessity,

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## Gerry Cassidy

> That's disappointing to hear. I like Breedlove for their mandos (& I've heard their guitars are good too.)  But almost everyone feels that acoustic basses are tough to get right.
> 
> BTW, here's a version of Soldier's Joy that approximates the sound I'm going for.  It's at 25% pitch and speed, with some echo added.  I also rigged up a 12% version, but it goes a little too far into weird alien spaces.  
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/nadamegha1089...pitchspeedecho


I did like the first few years of Kim's guitar work. The mandos can hold their own as well. That's why I was hopeful for the basses... to no avail. 

Wow! That recording is out there! Interesting stuff. You can definitely get that kind of reproduction with an Acoustic Bass. A P-Bass would sound really cool using it for what you are going for in this recording. Plus, a P Bass would be a bit more flexible if you wanted to experiment more.

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## chuck3

> Many companies make "acoustic bass guitars," and, from observation and from reading user evaluations, I'd say that every one I've seen needed to be amplified to provide sufficient volume for ensemble work.   My son had an Asian-made laminated one, and it "worked" in a duet with an acoustic guitar. played gently.  Anything more, and it pretty much disappeared into the mix.
> 
> Have heard good things about two discontinued models, the Ernie Ball Earthwood bass and the Tacoma Thunderchief.  Also have heard "pretty good" things about the Taylor bass guitar (also discontinued, I believe).
> 
> Small-bodied amplified instruments can have quite a bass presence; I've heard the U-Bass and it does a decent job of counterfeiting a bass fiddle sound.  So does the Guild Ashbory solid-body (reissued by Fender/DeArmond); I own an Ashbory and it works -- amplified.
> 
> An acoustic guitar body just doesn't have sufficient vibrating surface or internal volume, to produce the bass response of a bass fiddle.  If you get an acoustic bass guitar, and you don't want to amplify it, be prepared to compromise with a "small" bass sound, both in terms of volume, and of tonal quality.


Bass is my primary instrument, and I've got two acoustic bass guitars along with two upright basses (and more electric bass guitars than I should, like maybe 8).  Allen's post above basically sums it up, as do many of the others.  ABG (as it's called on the bass forums) is a useful instrument for practicing, but pretty much useless in group performance unless you amplify it.  Tacoma Thunderchief came closest, but they're hard to find since Fender shut down Tacoma.  The Kala U-Bass is amazing for what it is and a lot of fun to play (don't own one but I've played them).

I do use ABGs to practice, though, as they are good for that (if you like to practice in rooms where there is no amp).  I have a Fender acoustic that really feels like a bass, just the way the neck is, and a 32" scale Ibanez 5-string acoustic that is a little bit of an oddball instrument but sounds pretty good.

Not to send the OP off in a direction he doesn't want to go, but if you want to play bass acoustically there really is no substitute for an upright, and they are a blast to play.  Totally different technique from a bass guitar, though.

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allenhopkins

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## Petrus

> Bass is my primary instrument, and I've got two acoustic bass guitars along with two upright basses (and more electric bass guitars than I should, like maybe 8).  Allen's post above basically sums it up, as do many of the others.  ABG (as it's called on the bass forums) is a useful instrument for practicing, but pretty much useless in group performance unless you amplify it.  Tacoma Thunderchief came closest, but they're hard to find since Fender shut down Tacoma.  The Kala U-Bass is amazing for what it is and a lot of fun to play (don't own one but I've played them).


Yes, I gathered as much from my research.  It doesn't bother me to have a less-desired instrument; the price is certainly right (there being less market demand) and the quietness works fine for my solo late night practice purposes (headphones can be plugged in if I want, or I can amp it when playing for friends.)

The Kala is cute, but I specifically want something that's not so cute, and has a long scale. Maybe I should chalk it up to midlife crisis or some sort of psychological compensation that "the little blue pill" could solve, but that's another story entirely.  :Redface: 




> Not to send the OP off in a direction he doesn't want to go, but if you want to play bass acoustically there really is no substitute for an upright, and they are a blast to play.  Totally different technique from a bass guitar, though.


I've fooled around with UBs in stores and they are fun, and irreplaceable as classic totems of Bluegrass, Rockabilly, and so forth (and I _am_ a Charlie Mingus fan), but no way am I lugging a monster like that around.  It would barely fit in my vehicle and I know I'd be constantly bumping into doorways and knocking things over with it.

I'm already finding my Johnson a bit cumbersome (no jokes!) ... may end up selling it and getting a Hofner violin bass, which has that classic look in a less awkward package (if I can put up with the tiresome Beatles quips that I expect to receive, that is.)

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## chuck3

> I'm already finding my Johnson a bit cumbersome (no jokes!) ... may end up selling it and getting a Hofner violin bass, which has that classic look in a less awkward package (if I can put up with the tiresome Beatles quips that I expect to receive, that is.)


truly, the way to go, if not upright bass, is the contrabass balalaika  :Grin:  -

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Petrus

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## Petrus

Yowza, try fitting that in the overhead compartment!  :Disbelief: 

That's about as portable as a theorbo.

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## Petrus

Cool old Gibson ad.



And here's an Alembic 8-string electric bass from the '70s (?)  Do it up GDAE, and voila, instant mandobass.

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## chuck3

> And here's an Alembic 8-string electric bass from the '70s (?)  Do it up GDAE, and voila, instant mandobass.


I was in Sweden this summer and saw one of these 8-string Hagstroms for sale - almost bought it until I realized what an act of insanity it would be (given how many basses I own, and the fact that octave pedals, which I use, kind of make the 8-string bass obsolete).  But my first bass was a 1965 Hagstrom and these 8-strings - made only in 1968 and 1969 I think, but what years those were - were historic.  Jimi and Noel played them on the Hendrix albums.

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## chuck3

[QUOTE=Petrus;1325417]Cool old Gibson ad.



Very cool.

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## bassthumper

again $$$$$ becomes the issue but a Schertler in a Martin B-1 amped through a good bass amp gives superb upright sound

there are several battery portable bass amps that I'm lookin' at that do a great job for an informal jam

look at Carvin ... an oft overlooked quality alternative

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## Bill Snyder

Anyone interested in an acoustic bass should take a look and listen to Jake Wildwood's *bass banjo*. It sounds like a bass, not a banjo. 
If you check it out make sure to click on the *Soundcloud link.*
I am hoping Jake will weigh in as far as volume and usability in a jam without amplification.

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## Sven the Impaler

I play an old Kay upright bass and a buddy's Kala uke bass sounds remarkably close (albeit through an amp).

http://www.kalabrand.com/instrumentsU-bass.html

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## wsugai

I use a discontinued Fender Precision Jr. 7/8-scale body with extra-short scale (around 30", I think). Used to play standard 34" scale for a long time but my hands don't like them any more. Also tried a 32" scale Precision for a while, but I like the extra-short 30" scale best. Been using felt ukulele picks for a long time for better tone control.




> Any thoughts on the J bass vs the P bass. I think I have given up on the acoustic bass idea.

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## chuck3

> Any thoughts on the J bass vs the P bass. I think I have given up on the acoustic bass idea.


The J bass vs the P bass is a favorite topic on bass forums.  There are two main differences.  The first is pickup configuration.  The P bass has one pickup, a single coil, usually split, in the sweet spot in the middle of the bass.  The J bass has two pickups, one closer to the bridge, one closer to the neck.  The P bass gives you a classic Motown type tone; the J is more versatile in that you can dial in a more aggressive tone using the bridge pickup.  Accordingly, P basses are most often strung with flatwound strings whereas J basses are more often strung with roundwound strings.  The other main difference is that a P bass generally has a slightly wider neck - J bass necks are quite narrow.

There is no right or wrong or better or worse.  I have played plenty of both, often letting the style of music dictate the choice.  They are the two classic styles of electric bass.  Leo Fender was the man.

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