# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Black top A3 on Ebay

## MANDOLINMYSTER

I don't think I have ever seen a Black top A3, The one currently on Ebay looks real nice and appears to be original. Has any one else seen a Black top A3? even the sides, neck and back wood selection looks nice. :Popcorn:

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## F-2 Dave

I've never heard of a original black topped 3, but anythings possible.

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## allenhopkins

*Link.*

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## tnt2002

I saw that yesterday, She's a real beauty, so I added it to my watch list, but I'm sure it'll be over 2K by close.

Tom

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## Ed Goist

Wow...That instrument looks to be in incredible condition for its age!
I've read some on the forums about a natural degradation of instrument finishes over time...Certainly no indication here.
How common/rare is it to see a mandolin this old in this kind of condition?

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## Jim Garber

That is what makes me a little nervous. You prob can't really tell until it is in hand whether it was refinished. If it was a white face, I would imagine that it could easily have been refinished without even stripping the top. It could have been done at the Gibson factory later on in its life. Anything is possible. A friend has a 1920s L1 guitar that was refinished by Gibson in the 1960s with a cherry sunburst. Looks odd

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## jim simpson

Propably wasn't a white face as the sound hole is bound in white - not black as a white face would have.

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## allenhopkins

According to the _Vintage Guitars_* guide to Gibson models and serial numbers,*  Gibson F-2's and F-4's were available with "optional black or orange finish" up through the 'teens.  I would guess one could have ordered an A-3 with the black top finish as well...?

The same guide states that the white-face A-3's started around 1918, and this mandolin's serial number (looks like 24023) does indicate 1915 manufacture.  So probably not a refinished white-face?

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## Lou Giordano

How much would it change the value if it was refinished?

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## Jim Garber

In general,  a refinished instrument could be worth up to half of an untouched one in excellent condition. You guys are prob right that it was not a whitefaced, but it still could be refinished. That back esp looks too good to be true. The front does have a centerline crack and it would not surprise me if it was refinished black years ago to cover up that. I just wonder, has anyone actually seen a black A3 all original. I know it is possible... just wondering. if so this is indeed rare.

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## allenhopkins

> .. just wonder, has anyone actually seen a black A3 all original. I know it is possible... just wondering. if so this is indeed rare.


One shown *here* at Mandolin Archive.  Palm Guitars in Holland claims to have one *here,* but it only has one ring of soundhole purfling and no ornamental inlay on the headstock, plus a 1925 serial number when I understand the A-3 was discontinued before that, so I dunno...

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## Jim Garber

I can't see how that one at Palm Guitars is an A3 either. Here's the pic.

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## Darryl Wolfe

I agree with Garber.  The subject mando may be refinished and one would have to see it.  IMHO..it is a refinished pumpkin top

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## Darryl Wolfe

Actually, I changed my mind.  It is of exactly the same period as my H2 mandola, and all nuances are the same including the lighter color on the neck and glossy pristine black finish on the top.  So it may be refinished, but I'm betting now it's just an nice original oddity

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## Jim Garber

Hmmmm... now which Darryl should I agree with.  :Smile:  In any case, it did not meet reserve and if the seller wants big money I would arrange for return privileges and take a look at it in person.

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## Tom C

If you look at rosette binding, it does not look even. Rosette also looks like it was varnished over. -very gold in color.

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## Jim Garber

Here's a few pics for posterity, since this ebay posting may disappear soon.

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## Jim Garber

Here are the rest.

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## MANDOLINMYSTER

I love the picture with pick guard clamp.

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## Darryl Wolfe

I guess you could say I'm 50/50 on this one.  I have seen black top mandos of that period look that good.  The top crack is suspicious with respect to that it may have been refinished because of it.  And of course being black topped to begin with.   The label is pristine and all binding has the correct "Gibson factory look" which usually is not the case on a refin

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## Jim Garber

I think one of us will need to buy this, just so we can rest the case. Darryl?  :Smile:

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## Charles Johnson

Sorry to necro the thread, but I have an original 1915 blacktop A3 in my personal collection.

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## Jim Garber

> Sorry to necro the thread, but I have an original 1915 blacktop A3 in my personal collection.


Charles, can you post some pictures?

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## Charles Johnson

Here are some pictures. It came out of Gruhns shop about 12 years ago. George indicated he believed the finish to be original, as do I.

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