# General Mandolin Topics > Vintage Instruments >  Gibson F4 1916-1918? Mandolin

## pombonted

I'm looking at buying a Mandolin but I'm not sure what the market price is.  I've read several threads on here from a while ago that say it would be only be worth a couple of thousand dollars to another thread that said one sold for $15k.  Also are these worth holding as a collectors item?  It's in pretty good nick and has original handel tuners etc  Any guidance would be much appreciated thnx

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## houseworker

There's a good match with this model between supply and demand; $5k-6k is probably a fair price for one of these in sound original condition - clean and complete and with the original HSC.  I'm not sure how far your "pretty good nick" would be from mint, but condition and originality very much determine the market value.

"Are these worth holding as a collector's item?"  Only if you're a collector.

They're lovely instruments, stunningly beautiful but they're not rare, and are best bought to play rather than as a financial investment.  But at current market prices, you'll not lose money on a clean original instrument.

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## Darryl Wolfe

The market is extremely mixed on these.  All instruments took a hit a few years ago, and some were simply priced too high to begin with and that bubble burst independent of the economical downturn.

Any clean unadulterated F4 is collectible and is a good investment at the right price.  If it does not meet that description I would steer clear.

With that said any price slightly north or south of $4500 is a decent deal, provided it is clean and "right"

Edit:  houseworker posted as I was composing.  As you can see our prices do not agree.  Again an indicator of how mixed the market is.

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## Goodin

I'm with Darryl on that price range.  Seems like a few years ago these were selling in stores for $6500 range but now $4500 is about right (which I think is a GREAT deal), maybe even less on Ebay.  I remember 4-5 years ago Gruhn's had a Loar period F-4 for $12k, now a Loar period F-4 can be found in the $6K-7K range easily.  Heck, even Mandolin Bros has one for sale right now for $7k.  So yeah, prices all over the map lately.  

These teens and twenties Gibson F-2's and F-4's are fantastic mandolins for the money and I think they are undervalued.  I would only part with my '24 F-4 if I was about to be out on the streets.

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## Jim Garber

> I've read several threads on here from a while ago that say it would be only be worth a couple of thousand dollars to another thread that said one sold for $15k.


That one that sold a few years ago for $15K was a Loar era one which generally go for more, tho never that much. I think that particular one was in exc condition and may have been one of the rarer Cremona brown finished rather than the red ones. Still I think it was more of bidder insanity for that price, IMHO. Usually they top out at around $6-8k

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## pombonted

Thanks for all the input.  He said he'll sell it for $8k which I guess is too much really.  I just found out it's 1916 and serial no: 27797. I'll try to upload a pic.

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## mrmando

Nah. It's a nice one, but even at the peak of the market $8K would've been high for a '16. And in today's market $8K is a pipe dream.

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## pombonted

Well I am quite the dope, I heard about this thru a friend but apparently it's been sitting on ebay all this time anyway.  Here's the link if anyone wants it.  No wonder he was keen to sell it to me - no bids so far - no wonder  :Smile:

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## pombonted

Woops, forgot the link.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130693942...84.m1423.l2649

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## f5loar

Not sure where you are getting your serial nos. translated down under but in the USA we would call this an early 1915 by that serial no.  And to be a 1915 that is insainly minty which makes me rather suspecious it might be a refinish.  I just don't see the correct crazing cracks in the headstock and on the body for one that old in those photos. The tuners show no rust or aging as if they were recently buffed polished.   Add to that a new fret job on one that minty it should really be showing some major wear on it to warrent new frets.  If it has been refinished then you are talking a $2200 to $2750 in US dollars which lately is about the same in exchange rates.  The orange finish was optional and I've not seen that many so I hope Ken W. chimes in on that finish being original or not.

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## pombonted

Hi,

I can get him to send me more pics if u like?  I'm a very inexperienced novice but have a mad mando mate which is how I hear about some of these.  :Smile:

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## Goodin

My first impression after looking at the pics is that it's been refinished.  I've never seen an orange F-4 but f5loar says this color was an option.  The label looks very white and fresh, and the hand written serial number is very clean and clear.  This makes me think the mandolin has been well preserved over the years so it could be the original finish.  Either way $8000 is way too much for this mandolin.  Maybe $6000-6500 at the most if it's for sure all original and minty, like it looks in the pictures.

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## Darryl Wolfe

May be original finish, but likely not.  The peghead texture looks lacquer to me.  I also question how it could be in that condition but have been refretted and be missing the original case  (as in worn out)....and of all things be in a Pegasus case now?

The little old lady part of this story is not there

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## Darryl Wolfe

But on the other hand, look at 27793

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/27793

Hmmmm

It could merely be a case of over aggressive cleanup and french polishing

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## houseworker

George has one at $7,500

The seller's price makes better sense once you know the instrument's in Australia, and that a local buyer won't face any import charges, as is the case here in the UK, where prices tend to be well above US ones.  I'd still be surprised if it sells, not least because the seller won't ship it which limits the potential buyers, but if the OP is seriously interested, an approach direct to the seller might achieve a more realistic price.  At worst, the seller should be prepared to let it go for $7200, since that is what he would be left with after an $8k eBay sale.

Darryl's last suggestion may well be correct, which is a shame since it's clearly a very nice instrument.

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## f5loar

That's what I thought in the head looks more lacquer checked to me.  And to me the archives you mentioned is not quite the same shade of orange going on.  Is the archives more of a faded out red sunburst?  I see dark reddish around the big scroll.  No original case does raise a flag for one this minty looking.  The one in the archives you can see normal wear even in it's near mint condition but you sure don't see that on this one in AU.

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## pfox14

I've never seen a c1916 F-4 sell for $15K and don't think I ever will. I've een them as high as $6000-7000 in really nice condition, but I think in today's market that would equal more like $4000-5000.

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## Ken Waltham

I think that one is a refin. Not so much refinished, but, finish removed, and that is the colour that is left over. Earlier F4's are more uniform in colour, like this one, with really no sunburst, but, this one is too pale.
Also, like others have said, that peghead shot just looks like it has lacquer on it.
Ken

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## Jack Roberts

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/22227

This one sold for $6,500 just before the recession.  It's from 1913.

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