# General Mandolin Topics > eBay, Craig's List, etc. >  Unique, single-point Gibson F4 (Julius Belson) on ebay

## Clement Barrera-Ng

http://cgi.ebay.com/270790598073

Very interesting. I've never seen one like it before - seems to be a custom, one-off for Julius Belson (of whom I am unfamiliar)?

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## Clement Barrera-Ng

Here's a picture for posterity reference....

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## mrmando

Julius Bellson was the brother of famous jazz drummer Louie Bellson. He worked for Gibson as a historian if I'm not mistaken, and wrote _The Gibson Story,_ an official history of the company.

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## Backlineman

Very interesting. The sellers description says it incorporates several features including the extend fret board, truss rod, and the body finish found only in later f-5's. Most unusual for an F-4 from 1921 or any previous year.  I wonder why the missing point was special ordered?

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## allenhopkins

No reserve mentioned, bidding under $1300 with four days to go...wonder where it'll end up?  The unusual features and provenance make this a "natural" for a Gibson collector, or a general mandolin collector.

Regarding the missing point, the seller says it was to facilitate access to the highest frets, which squares with the extended fretboard.  Apparently Mr. Bellson liked playing the _really high_ notes.

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## Gary Hedrick

There also is a mandolin in this era that was missing  some feature because the wife of the conductor didn't like it poking her in the breasts if I remember correctly... Also I seem to remember this mandolin being out in the LA during the 90's and for sale by an older gentleman that played classical .

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## sgarrity

I gotta be honest......that's ugly as sin!

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## John Soper

Yeah, trim two features and chnage the headstock- it could be a snakehead A!

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## Howie

It looks great to me. The point enables muscle memory to zero in where they are, however this was an out of the box moment. You can get set up to play way up the board. I played it 10 years ago and it wasn't set up. You could see by the wear and know exactly what they were thinking.The board extending over the sound hole has always been problematic with me on all mandos as well as pick guards covering part of a sound hole as well.  Please do not bid.

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## Glassweb

OK Howie... I won't!

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## lenf12

> OK Howie... I won't!


I'll stay out of this too, Howie  :Laughing: 

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

PS - I think this is a totally cool, very unique and desirable mandolin. It wouldn't surprise me if the Dawg gets into the fray. Good luck with the bids!!

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## clem

OK, I *want* it...just for the record.

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## JFDilmando

Somewhere, I seem to think I have seen a picture of Julius with the mandolin in a band setting... does anyone know where that might have been ?  On the cover of a Gibson catalogue or something ?

JohnD

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## Bob A

I spoke with Mr Bellson many years ago, when I had a question about the A2Z mandolins. In what little I recall of that conversation, he indicated that he had an A-style mandolin (an A-4, if I recall correctly).

I'm at work and unable to access ebay, but before bidding on the instrument, I'd make a strong effort to check the provenance, to be sure it belonged to Mr B. (If that consideration was important to me as a bidder, anyway).

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## Spruce

> ....but before bidding on the instrument, I'd make a strong effort to check the provenance, to be sure it belonged to Mr B.


Are you saying that there might be more than one of these kicking around??

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## Ken Waltham

That is definately Julius's mandolin. You can see a picture of him holding it in the ebay listing, I believe.
That one is well known, with provenance. Louis was his brother, but, in this case, more importantly, so was Albert. Albert was one of the most important musicians of his day.

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## JFDilmando

I think this is an interesting modification in light of D'Angelico's take on the F5 design, currently for sale on ebay as well.  In that F5 "copy" (sort of) the lower bottom point was omitted, and he kept the high point... just the reverse of this instrument modification.  In my view... THIS one makes some sense... clears up obstruction to get to higher frets, AND keeps the value of the lower point in resting/holding position on leg in playing.... Both of those things I have thought about when playing... the benefit of that lower point ref an A model, to me is very beneficial... while the "treble point" really is a bit of a nuisance... one always gets used to whatever is in your hands to some degree...

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## Darryl Wolfe

I have a problem with that along the grain dip or crack in the top...8th pic looking straight down on it

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## danb

#66719 if I'm not mistaken.. I had two records of this same instrument, the other had digit #3 as a 1. I'm going with Frank's read of the label which was 66719!

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?1771

Way too much coolness going on with that mando to really pick on it too much, but wouldn't you have removed the other point? That's the only one that's ever bugged me.

I note the fingerboard extension matches Ken's Funky F4 #22712.

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## BradKlein

#22712 seems to have 31 frets - and #66719 looks like 29, same as an F-5?

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## Vernon Hughes

it's gone..

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## Tom C

They will probably re-list it with a reserve unless they decided it was just too unique to let go after finding their way here.

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## Vernon Hughes

Or someone made them an offer they couldn't refuse..

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## Jim Garber

> it's gone..


I hate when sellers do that. Personally I think they are shooting themselves in the foot, since most serious bidders will snipe at the last minute. It is in the bidder's interest to end the auction early esp for a one of a kind item like this. Who knows how high it will go.

I wonder if Howie was able to get it. it would be nice if someone here did in any case.

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## JFDilmando

Latest word that I had was that the seller was offering it for a friend.... who was a close bud with Aubrie Hainey, and Aubrie ended up with it.... From my perspective, it couldn't end up in better hands...

JohnD

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