# Octaves, Zouks, Citterns, Tenors and Electrics > Four, Five and Eight-String Electrics >  The return of U Srinivas

## mrmando

5-string electric mando-whiz U Srinivas is touring the States again. NY and PA this weekend, working his way west. Visit http://rasika.org/ for a tour schedule. I saw him last time he toured, and I can't say enough about how great a show it was. Indian music isn't everyone's cup of tea, but if you appreciate world music & culture, you'll have a great time at one of these concerts.

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## jmcgann

If you like the mandolin (duh!) or have ears (!) you will be amazed at this man's music. What a humble guy and a humbler as a musician!

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## Christian McKee

I *love* his playing, and would offer the word of caution that if your only exposure to it is through a record on Peter Gabriel's WOM label, you gotta keep looking. I can't remember this particular album's title, but I'm glad it wasn't the first one I heard, since I'm not sure I would have looked for others. I'll be at the Portland show, anyone else?

Christian

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## mrmando

The two records he did for Gabriel's label are Dream (w/ Michael Brook) and Dawn Raga. Which one do you dislike?

I'll be at the Seattle show, but probably not the Portland show.

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## Christian McKee

Thanks, mrmando. It was Dream that I didn't like, it felt like generic, bubble-gum "world music" to me, complete with the tepid dance beats. On the other hand, I thought Dawn Raga was a *fantastic* record, and it spent a lot of time in my stereo while I had it from the library. Very heartily recommended to anyone who likes Indian classical, and/or is interested in off the beaten path mandolin. 

Christian

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## Christian McKee

I saw U. Srinivas and his ensemble yesterday afternoon, and was more floored than I was prepared to be. I have to say, I think he may very well be the most techincally proficient mandolinist I've ever seen, period. Speed, fluidity, grace, melody, and really complex, compelling rhythmic figures just pour out of him. Beyond what appears to be his *complete* mastery of the instrument, the duets that he and his brother play and his skills as an improviser are amazing. Just another plug encouraging people to go see him whenever possible. Amazing. 

Christian

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## John Flynn

> If you like the mandolin (duh!) or have ears (!) you will be amazed at this man's music. What a humble guy and a humbler as a musician!


I am honestly glad to hear about his humility. I sure then, he would be horrified by his own website. Buttons include "The Maestro" and "A Star is Born." There is one quote that really gets me. It is describing one of his early concerts: "The way critics gushed, it was hard to tell if they were talking about a child or a god!" If he really is that humble, he needs to have a talk with his PR people.

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## JEStanek

Johnny,
I wonder if this isn't a cultural thing. If the web page originates from India this may be the case.

Jamie

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## Christian McKee

That very thing has been discussed here before, and I seem to remember someone saying that such rhetoric is quite common in that part of the music universe. I'm inclined to forgive that sort of thing, though, think of all the times you've heard "Jimmy Page is GOD," or a variation on that same theme...

Christian

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## John Flynn

> I wonder if this isn't a cultural thing. If the web page originates from India this may be the case.


Well, that is a possibility, but if you check out Ravi Shankar's site, for instance, or the sites of some of Shankar's proteges, such as Shubhendra Rao or Gaurav Mazumdar, you do see some appropriate self-promotion, but nothing like you see on Shinivas' site.

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## mrmando

Well, I had an assignment to interview Srinivas here in Seattle. It didn't happen. The promoter wouldn't let my photographer shoot anything, and made us both leave the venue during sound check. The photographer got disgusted and went home, and I had to buy a ticket just to get back into the venue. I did manage to get up to the green room after the show, and Srinivas said he was too tired to talk. He took my card and promised to call from Portland, which he hasn't done. 

Beforehand I submitted some interview questions via e-mail, as I'd been warned that I might not have much time to talk with Srinivas. In response to questions designed to get Srinivas to open up about his background, his instrument, and his philosophy/approach to playing and teaching, most of the answers I got were single phrases, sometimes a single word.

So, I'm still a big fan but I'm a little puzzled. Neither Srinivas nor his promoter seemed the slightest bit interested in talking to me as a member of the press. I'm quite familiar with the Web site in question, and I'm thinking it's the work of rabid fans, of which he has plenty, and he's so indifferent toward the concept of publicity that he's given the site no attention. I don't think he has any "PR people" as such.

Patrice O'Neill, who helps coordinate the Mandolin Symposium, was at the gig, with hopes of getting a commitment from Srinivas to come to the Symposium sometime. I'd love to see him do that, but don't know whether Patrice was able to make the right connections to bring it about. We shall see.

If a nose-flute player managed to get a seat in the Chicago Symphony, and was able to give compelling yet musically appropriate renditions of the classical repertoire on the nose-flute, we might well marvel at his accomplishments, and be tempted to describe them in hyperbolic terms. Well, that's more or less what Srinivas has achieved: he's taken an instrument not designed for classical Indian music and demonstrated that he can nonetheless perform the music correctly on it.

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## Christian McKee

Interesting! I was struck by the fact that Rasika (the promoting group) may be line up a concert, but knows *nothing* about running them. Witness the 20 minute delay in starting because nobody brought an extension cord (!) and then during the concert itself, the "organizing" staff kept running around the venue, stopping people from taking non-flash photos, getting church staff to set up oscillating fans while they were playing, frequently going up and talking to the performers between songs, and generally making a serious nuisance of themselves. This never stopped throughout the whole performance. I actually thought about sending them a letter about it. 
Still, the music rang true, and I'll go again. 

Christian

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## SternART

Looks like he hits the Bay Area Sunday.....Chabot College in Hayward.

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## jefflester

L.A. show is Saturday at Wilson High School in Long Beach.
http://cricket.sulekha.com/events/ev...197003&nma=LAX

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## jmcgann

mrmando- sorry to hear you were treated shabbily.

However, I think the nose flute analogy is a possibly just a wee bit sour grapes- I doubt John McLaughlin feels Srinivas is anything but a world class improvising musician...

Still, it reminds me of Jay Leno's adage that if you are a nice famous person, two people will hear about it; if you are a famous jerk, 40 people will hear about it...

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## glauber

Does U. Srinivas play 8-string too or just 4-string?

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## mrmando

John, ya got me all wrong! The nose-flute analogy concerns Srinivas' stunning accomplishment of playing Carnatic classical music credibly on a non-Indian instrument. I was saying that a nose-flute (i.e., non-Western instrument) player being accepted in the Chicago Symphony (i.e., Western classical music) would be an equally stunning accomplishment. I could've used Howard Levy's achievements on the harmonica as an example (he can play Strauss! and Stephane Grappelli licks!), but that's not a non-Western instrument. 

The analogy wasn't meant as a putdown of Srinivas at all, and I wasn't thinking about his work with Remember Shakti. He IS a world-class improvising musician, no doubt about it. As for the way I was treated, I'm not sure Srinivas himself is to blame. He seems quite shy, for one thing. I can certainly understand that, as I get that way myself sometimes.

Srinivas has never played 8-string, or 4-string, for that matter. He says he started with an 8-string mandolin but realized he'd have to remove 3 strings and retune in order to do what he wanted with the instrument. So he's been a 5-string player from the start, and he uses an open tuning (CGCGC).

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## glauber

Mr Mando, 

that's right, 5 strings, tuned in C. I remember now i've read that somewhere. I think U is a truly original musician, a rare thing. I'm not into Indian music right now. I was before, but just to think of the complexity of it now makes me shy away. But that's not here nor there.

I didn't think you mean any disrespect. And you have to remember that the nose flute was used symphonically to great effect by the great P. D. Q. Bach. I also think you're probably right, that the bumbling management company is more to blame than the artist, for the way you were treated.

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## jmcgann

mrmando- my apologies for misinterpreting!

I sure get the Howard Levy analogy- he's another monster musician.

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## delsbrother

What an interesting show! The event was promoted by the local Carnatic Music Society. I was a little late, but they didn't start until about 1/2 hour after the scheduled time.. As it turned out, I walked into the auditorium right in front of Michael Brook..

The set was about 3-1/2 HOURS, with nary a break in between songs.. He and his brother play so fast it's amazing. I was surprised by how different they sound from another - U. Rajesh is a lot more brash, fiery, and loud. U. Shrinivas is much cleaner, especially during those intricate hammer-on passages (where he played long segments entirely with his left hand). 

I'd seen videos before, but it was neat to see stuff live - the band and the audience counting beats; the interplay between the musicians (can't beat playing with your brother!); watching the mandolinists switch from picking, to palming/fingerpicking, and back again; wondering what that stuff was they kept daubing on their fretting fingers (oil to help the sliding?); listening to Shrinivas play a cool intro passage intentionally on the fringe of feedback (something I hadn't expected - it was kind of Hendrix-like). I went home and tried about thirty of the licks and techniques I'd seen.. And failed miserably on most of them.. But a cool emando experience nonetheless!

On the "smugness" note, Shrinivas seemed extremely humble before the audience.. Though the promoters kept up the "He is a Genius - We are in such _Ecstasy_" lines both before and after the set.. I could understand how he could be too tired to talk afterwards, too. He looked happy but exhausted.. Personally I can't understand how the percussion players can keep going that long - my arms would've fallen off after the first tune.

Darrell

oh I dug the digital tambura too!

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## mrmando

Yeah, the digital tambura relieves some poor musician of a thankless task!

Too bad we didn't get 3.5 hours at the Seattle show. I was watching the right hands very carefully (and this was something I wanted to ask him about): I don't think he uses a plectrum at all. There are times he holds the thumb & index finger together to make a sort of pseudo-plectrum, but then he'd open up the hand and go back to finger picking. He does oil his left-hand fingers repeatedly (he has the softest hands of any musician I've ever shaken hands with). 

The only time he doesn't seem comfortable is when he picks up the mic to announce the next number. In person, Rajesh seems the more outgoing and friendly of the two.

I thought the mridangam and ghatam players were top-notch too (but what do I know?).

Am I more or less right in thinking that ragas (at least as performed by these cats) are more or less structured like jazz? -- a "head" that everyone knows, followed by increasingly complex improvisations, followed some of the time by a restatement of the head?

I think Rajesh has improved as a player since the last show I saw. But Srinivas is still a better improviser ... a master of the slow burn. He really takes his time to build interest, complexity, and tension in a solo, and then finally resolves it in a blaze of glory.

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## delsbrother

> I don't think he uses a plectrum at all. There are times he holds the thumb & index finger together to make a sort of pseudo-plectrum, but then he'd open up the hand and go back to finger picking.


LOL! I guess that would explain how (I thought) he did it so effortlessly, eh? 

Oh well - I could've sworn there was some palming going on, but I wasn't that close.. You're probably right. In most of the pictures I can find on the net it _does_ look like he's using his fingers, but I then there are others like this.. 



Maybe he switches off depending on the song.. ?

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## Christian McKee

His Portland set wasn't quite 3.5 hours, but it was really close. I was quite impressed with all of their endurance, and seated at that! 
In terms of the structure of ragas as a form, the closest parallel that we have in western music is something along the lines of modal jazz, with its head/jam/head structure, although there are plenty of ragas that don't close with a re-statement of the "head." There are other important differences, notably the "gat," those lovely solo introductions. They are considered arhythmic, but are often formally divided into different sections (slow, fast, etc.) The other thing that makes this so different from jazz, is the fact that the harmony is static: there are no chord changes at all, as the focus is squarely on melody and rhythm. It's the different choice of rag (like a tone series) and tal (time signature) that keeps these pieces sounding different one from the next. 
Call me predictable, but there are some really excellent Shankar records that were recorded with an educational purpose in mind, so not only does he play the hell out of these ragas, he also speaks about their structure and musical elements as introductions. For me, that makes for a much more enjoyable learning experience than trying to read a book about it. 

Christian

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## glauber

You just can't go wrong with Ravi Shankar. I love everything Hariprasad Chaurasia did too. To me, he's one of the world's foremost flute players.

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## delsbrother

> Call me predictable, but there are some really excellent Shankar records that were recorded with an educational purpose in mind, so not only does he play the hell out of these ragas, he also speaks about their structure and musical elements as introductions. #For me, that makes for a much more enjoyable learning experience than trying to read a book about it. #
> 
> Christian


Christian, could you point me to one or two of these records? Looking at the (massive) Shankar section at Amoeba LA is a daunting task.

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## Christian McKee

I was wishing that I could remember titles as I was typing that, but none were coming to mind... I'll poke around, and see if I can't get the ol' lightbulb to glimmer a bit. The ones I was thinking of were from the 60's (around the time that all us long-hairs were briefly infatuated with the music for reasons that many Indian musicians found upsetting.) 

Christian

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## michael.denslow

I have traveled to South India a few times, I read these comments with a smile. I would say that the description of the artist and the promoters is "so very south Indian". When I am in India I often spend nights going to her carnatic classical music or hanging out with musicians. 

The cultural differences are not something that can be described easily but I am not surprised to hear that they forgot an extension cord or they neglected the press. I don't think its a matter of disorganization either its really just a different approach to life.

In India music is a spiritual practice unto itself, as such performing is often secondary. One is always performing in the presence of God. In the case of U. Srinivas his personal diety is Rama (or Ram). Initially this is often reffered to as "selfish" by people, but I would argue the opposite.

It is also important to keep in mind that U. Srinivas is a Carnatic Classical musian this very different from the Hindustani music of Hariprasad or Ravi Shankar. In theory the music is very similar but in practice very different! They play many of the same Ragas but they will take a very different approach. Listen to any Shankar then Srinivas record and you will see what I mean.

I will be going back to South India some time within the year and always pick up lots of CDs including U. Srinivas, they usually go for about $2 over there so let me know if I can pick some up for any one.

MD

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## mrmando

Hi Michael ... I'd certainly be glad to get some Srinivas CDs from you. These cultural differences, of course, are something I had hoped to discuss with Srinivas. Unfortunately, the reticence regarding the press often just increases the misunderstanding ...

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## michael.denslow

Sure Mr. Mando,
I will try to PM you and we can work something out. I just got a few more of his CD from a friend who recently got back from India.
MD

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## glauber

> It is also important to keep in mind that U. Srinivas is a Carnatic Classical musian this very different from the Hindustani music of Hariprasad or Ravi Shankar. In theory the music is very similar but in practice very different! They play many of the same Ragas but they will take a very different approach. Listen to any Shankar then Srinivas record and you will see what I mean.


Could you ellaborate on this? What's Carnatic? What's Hindustani? When i think of what i've heard of Hariprasad or Shankar and what i've heard of Srinivas, i think the music of Srinivas is more relaxed, contrasting with a more stately Hariprasad or Shankar, but i'm not sure this is "it". I don't know enough to put the finger on the difference.

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## glauber

Here's some followup on my own question:

(1) The [Wikipedia article] is readable and "encyclopedic".

(2) I found a very interesting article by Todd McComb, called [Why Carnatic Music?] that's a good read. Here's a quote from that article:



> I value Carnatic music first for the effectiveness with which it can build positive mental discipline. It helps me to focus and organize my thoughts, and it helps to eliminate negative mental habits. How does it do this? Of course, I do not really know.

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## michael.denslow

Hey Glauber,
I will take a stab at it. One major difference in the two styles is the instrumentation. For example a sitar is almost never found in Carnatic Music. They often use earlier versions of the sitar such as the Veena. If I am not mistaken the Sitar is a much more recently developed instrument, relatively speaking. 
The time is kept by the tabla in Hindustani and usually the Ghatam and Mridangam in Carnatic. Both the Ghatam and Mridangam were originally made of clay. Actually Mrid is the root word for mud in Sanskrit, you can here the similarities. Anyway the Mridangam is now usually wood and if you cut it in half you have the tabla.
Both styles revolve around the Raga, which can be thought of as a set of rules or guidelines. Both style share some of the same Ragas but approach them differently. For example in Hindustani music the introduction (called Alap) slowly develops the character of the raga. In Carnatic they usually jump right into the raga more quickly. 

The underlying theory of the music is the same but in practice different. Interestingly the violin has become very popular in Carnatic music and one can hear some incredible players (L. Subramanian probably being most famous). So it is really not so surprising that the Mandolin would work so well.

Anyway I realize that I havent really given an exact definition of either style but hopefully I have shed some light. I am really a bigger fan of Carnatic music and fill my suitcase with CDs whenever I go to India.

MD

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## jefflester

U. Srinivas clip on YouTube

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## mrmando

I see. So SOMEBODY was allowed to bring a camera to a gig. Whatevah.

FWIW, that is the same ghatam player I saw him with. Not the same mridangam player. And I feel sorry for the violinists, who seem to be sitting in for the tambura.

Word is that Srinivas will be back in the States in the fall. I'll see if I get another whack at interviewing him then.

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## delsbrother

Ton of (pirate) Remember Shakti stuff up on YouTube as well. You could get lost in there for a couple hours easy...

Found this one that clearly shows Srinivas' hands, esp. his right hand and picking motion, for those interested in such things. 

(moved from other thread to this one where we talked about picks)

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## mandolirius

&lt;That very thing has been discussed here before, and I seem to remember someone saying that such rhetoric is quite common in that part of the music universe. I'm inclined to forgive that sort of thing, though, think of all the times you've heard "Jimmy Page is GOD," or a variation on that same theme...&gt;

Hype is hype. It knows no cultural boundries. At this point in my life, I'm pretty much impervious to it. Hype filter on!

That said, this is right up my alley. Too bad there are no Canadian dates. I could get to Vancouver.

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## delsbrother

Whoops, sorry mandolirius. This is an old thread; the tour's long gone!

Here, have another one of these instead. You can practice your "rapture" soloing face. Mando content - Srinivas' emando has different knobs in this one!

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## mandelect

There's no doubt that U.Srinivas is a masterful musician, and a great improviser - I have many of his CD's. His brother U.Rajesh is no slouch on the mandolin either; I'd recommend his recent "Into The Light" CD which also features classical pianist Anil Srinivasan. Great compositions and some wonderful improv too!

I loved the Youtube video of U.Srinivas & U.Rajesh playing Ghandi's favourite " Ragupathi Raghava Rajaram". Seeing that encouraged me to track down the "Maestros In Concert" DVD which is very poor quality but worth it for a better (than Youtube) version of that track alone!

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## mandolirius

&lt;Whoops, sorry mandolirius. This is an old thread; the tour's long gone!&gt;

I didn't click the link, so I missed that. Thanks for making me aware of him. I'll keep an eye out. Vancouver has a large south asian community so a show there would make sense. Maybe next tour.

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## Christian McKee

Unfortunately, little about this fine musician's live performance schedule in North America seems to make sense. Here's hoping, though!

Christian

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## Brewerpaul

Wow-- great stuff!
Does anyone have a good link to his current tour schedule? Anything in the Northeast?
Glauber-- are you the Glauber I'm thinking of from C&F?

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## mandolooter

WOW is right! Just lately on a trip to Pandora intenet radio I heard some old John McL. stuff and was inspired to pull out all my old Indian/related music records and burn some songs to CD for listening to in the car and at work. Good stuff!
Dels bro - nice link! That was a fun listen! Anyone know what they call that takataka kind of singing? I'd like to find out more about it.

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## jmcgann

Konokol

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## delsbrother

Thanks John! Maybe I can finally learn to count properly! It's really quite mesmerizing to watch at one of these concerts - everyone's counting with their hands, from 10-year-olds in the audience to the musicians onstage who aren't soloing. It's like magic to the uneducated - everyone except me seems to know when the song's going to end, or when the climax to the pieces occur - because they understand the beat structure. 

I tried to learn this by watching tabla instructional videos, but this DVD looks to be more helpful (plus it has some nice tunes on it). Thanks again.

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## mandolooter

way cool...its way more than singing then...maybe this is what I need too cuz Im lost timing wise and i really dig that kind of music. Thanks John!

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## delsbrother

Yeah, at least in my tabla video, there is no written notation to what's being played - it's spoken, and remembered as a "phrase." The instructor on the video would say, "Now I'm going to play 'taka...'" and then he'd play the phrase on the tabla. The syllables would stand for different ways to hit the drum head (different fingers, different places on the drum, different methods of attack, etc.). 

Like this (I'm glad this isn't my job, by the way).

Or, I suppose, like this.

When you speed it up, it sounds like what is happening in the Shakti clip. I'm not sure if this is a more complex way of applying the basic rhythms of Konokol for percussionists (something I think they allude to at the beginning of that Konokol clip), or if it's something else altogether. If it's any clue, the two "singers" on the clips I posted are Zakir Hussain and V. Selvaganesh, both pretty much living legends of percussion (Haussain is revered even more than Srinivas, I believe). If I'm understanding things correctly, this is how they would "speak" to each other if they didn't have any instruments. Hmm... I wonder if that would be a way to do _Dueling Banjos_ without banjos, LOL.

If you have a copy of the Concert for George DVD (George Harrison tribute) the behind the scenes clips show a lot of the type of hand-counting I'm talking about (and maybe even some mistakes? Anoushka Shankar seems a little frustrated at times while conducting). I was under the impression none of this stuff was written down, and was surprised to see a lot of the Indian musicians in the rehearsal scenes taking notes. 

That's what made me wonder about how Srinivas' school operates. Is there notation? Tab? Konokol/spoken phrasing? Or just a lot of listening and repeating? I think there are literelly thousands of differnent tunes - how do you remember them all?

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## West

Can anyone recommend some U Srinivas (preferably available on itunes) that really shows off his speed? #I have tried clicking through a few itunes snippets and they all sound like a drone with 3 slow notes above them. #I know, I'm shallow -- sometimes I like slow stuff too, but I just really like the speed in the 1/4/08 video posted above.

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## delsbrother

OK, got the Konokol DVD and John's right, it's exactly what they're doing on the YouTube clips. Don't know how the tabla stuff relates (it must), but that's not what they're doing. Cool DVD!

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## worldmuziq

http://www.kennedy-center.org/explor...&source_type=B

*Mandolin U Shrinivas is performing on March 1, 2011 at 6pm EST at the Kennedy Center for Performing Arts, Washington DC.*

YOu can watch this concert live on their website
http://www.kennedy-center.org/explor...&source_type=B

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## Ed Goist

Here's a very good profile of South Indian electric mandolin virtuoso U Srinivas. 
He performs on a 5 string e-mando tuned CGCGC.
Too cool for words!
...Never underestimate the power of the mandolin.

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## foldedpath

Ed, FYI -- a Facebook account is needed to see that video, otherwise it shows a padlock icon and "Secure Video." Not everyone is on Facebook (I'm not; maybe the last holdout?). Anyway, YouTube links are more widely accessible.

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## Ed Goist

Foldedpath; thank you for that information. Sorry about that - I'll be sure to use YouTube links henceforth.
Here is the YouTube link for this fine video profile of U Srinivas...His playing is just remarkable!! Love it!

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