# Technique, Theory, Playing Tips and Tricks > Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks >  I Hate Playing Chords

## Sherry Cadenhead

"Hate" is a really strong word, but it describes my state of mind when practicing chords.  I rarely have the opportunity to play with others, so, mostly, I play melody from the written music.  I know, though, if and when I do play with others, I'll need to play chords.  Until a couple of years ago, I was fairly adept at playing 2 finger chords when playing at jams at the local senior center.  Now I'm determined to master 3 finger chords.  I'll spare you all the details as to how I got here, but I think what I'd like to do now is concentrate on chords in a single key.  So, if you were to do that, would you work on A, C, D or G major pieces?

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## John Kelly

Since they are the 4 keys that are most regularly met (if we are playing traditional music) then proficiency in all four would be a very useful skill, Sherry.  Why do you feel the need for 3-finger rather than 2-finger chords?  I play regularly with fiddlers and accordion players and generally back them on guitar, but often I am playing mandolin or octave lead and will revert to chorde from melody to give the tunes a bit of variety.  I use 3-finger more on the octave as I find that the mandolin's small narrow fretboard is a bit tight for me (even when playing my own build which has a slightly wider fingerboard and longer scale length).  I might try chords in G and D first as I find the chords in those two scales are maybe a bit easier to finger with 3 fingers, but others may well differ.  Remember too that there are inversions of the chords so fingering will vary, and some groupings are easier than others.

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John MacPhee

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## dhergert

Interesting, chords are almost all I play.  I finger the chord patterns to get to the melody.  And yes, I play mostly chord-melody.

Nice thing is, there's room for all of us.  Never be afraid to be different, and never be afraid to be the same.  Make it yours.

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ajh, 

RobP

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## stevedenver

> Interesting, chords are almost all I play.  I finger the chord patterns to get to the melody.  And yes, I play mostly chord-melody.
> 
> Nice thing is, there's room for all of us.  Never be afraid to be different, and never be afraid to be the same.  Make it yours.


Im with you!!!
while I play an lot of leads and fiddle tunes, im with you, chords are where its at for finding the melody, improvisation, and outlining changes.

but, I agree with sherry, mando chords, nekked, can be, sometimes, depending on the player and instrument a bit shrill brittle sounding, compared to say, a guitar. especially, imho, solo with vocals. I think partially its due to its range.

I happen to love two finger open chords for some tunes, as my mandos sound very full and have great overtones that they don't when fretted. 

Chords in all keys should be easy Sherry, as once you get a couple keys down, eg.  G. 

Once you can play in G, everything is movable. Slide all your G chords up two frets and youre playing in A. 


Ditto key of C shapes, can be slid up 2 frets to D, 2 more to E. 

For example, if you use a three finger G chord, you use the E string, fretted at the third fret (G note) to know that's a G chord.  Move it up two frets (fifth fret) , its an A, two more frets (seventh fret), its a B, one more fret upward and its a C (eighth fret). using a C shape, in the first position, the second string is fretted at the third fret (C note). move it up two frets and its a D, etc.

Learn a three finger G, and C, (C chord shape is the same as D chord shape, but moved up (in pitch) two frets) . Frankly you only have two forms (initially ) to learn and you can play all those keys using only two chord shapes. Learn to use the side markers on the fret board to figure out where you need to slide to or land with your chordal shape.

Once you learn where to move, say in a I-IV-V progression, ie three finger G, C, D...notice where the I chord is (G), where the IV chord is (C) and where the V (D) chord is.  

Do the same using a C shape. once you remember where to move, you can play in any key. *The RELATIVE chord positions stay the same. * 


Sherry, chording is muscle memory. And to some extent, finger /hand strength. Get used to the idea that at first it may be a little plinky until you fret with adequate pressure and clearing the frets. Chording is also "target practice". Try your three finger G, and pick each string until it rings clearly. It may take a few days or more to get the strength.

Then , when you know the chord forms,   play along with a simple 2-3 chord song in G, and try to make the changes at tempo, or, sing a song you know and make the changes in time. Start slowly, get the muscle memory, then increase tempo.  Do this daily, just ten minutes, and in two weeks, youll be smokin'.

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Charles E., 

dhergert, 

Phil Goodson

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## John Soper

And if you are jamming with others in bluegrass or swing, or accompanying a vocalist, you'll need to play chords - or at least partial chords - a higher per centage of the time than you'll play single notes.  So buckle down and learn those chords during this time of social isolation.  I'm practicing a bunch, because nobody can hear my mistakes!

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## Drew Egerton

I think one thing to consider would be what type of music and what other instruments you will be playing with. Based on that, you might need to focus on more open sounding ringing chords, or ones that are better suited to a chop.
The great thing about the mandolin is once you learn a few shapes you can move them around to make other chords if they don't use open strings.

If you're playing bluegrass, go for the chop chords. That does NOT mean you need the 4 fingers Bill Monroe G shape. The bottom two (bass) strings will give you all the chop you need and you can use about 3 different shapes to play any chord necessary. Other styles will dictate different approaches.

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## SOMorris

I think starting with G Major would be  good move.  There are a lot of songs played in that key.

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## farmerjones

Don't beat yourself up about two finger chords. They're not wrong. They're just voiced differently than three or four finger chords. Just go to Jazzmando.com look into  Four Finger Closed Position chords. Simply for the patterns at first. Tuned in 5ths, mandolins and fiddles are a wonder of sensible patterns for me. 
It took awhile for me as well. Must be a left brain, right brain thing? To play a melody for one round, then the chords for the next, then back. Or learn a tune with words, then, do your own melodic break, then sing another verse, etc. By gum, it ain't easy, at first. Makes y'all appreciate them what can.

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## AlanN

I love playing chords, so did this guy  :Laughing:

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Steve Weeks, 

stevedenver

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## Bertram Henze

I have been there, but the way out of Melody Metropolis leads through the Domain of Doublestops. Eventually, Chord Country looms on the horizon. Today, I play it all mingled together.

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gfury, 

tangleweeds

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## Mark Gunter

It gets better with time and practice, Sherry. Some things take days, some things take years; frustration only takes a moment. Don’t give up, have fun, and work on the things you want to do. You’re doing well.

 I really like the sound of Key of G on the mandolin using 2 finger G with three finger C and D. That might be a good place to start.

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## gortnamona

I never play chords, i don't know any,  its all melody for me, closest I get is a open string above or below a fretted note .

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## Nevin

I have to ask why you hate playing chords?  If you are having a hard time doing it, it may be a setup issue on your mandolin.  You may also have some issues with your left hand technique.  As for keys, G and D are probably the most common but after you are playing three and four note chords it doesn't matter as they are movable.

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Explorer

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## foldedpath

> "Hate" is a really strong word, but it describes my state of mind when practicing chords.  I rarely have the opportunity to play with others, so, mostly, I play melody from the written music.  I know, though, if and when I do play with others, I'll need to play chords.


Not necessarily.  :Smile: 

There are genres like Irish and Scottish traditional music, where the primary role of the mandolin is to play the melody, not chords. Harmonic backup is considered less essential and a somewhat recent development in this music, compared to other Western or Americana styles of music. 

You might throw in some double-stops here and there when playing Irish trad, or even partial chords occasionally within the melody line. But the main focus is unison melody along with all the other instruments like fiddles, flutes, whistles, and concertinas. 

OldTime music has a similar focus on unison melody, although in that genre it's a little more common to see mandolin filling either role of melody or chord backup.

This isn't to say that you should completely ignore getting familiar with at least the basic chords and some harmonic theory, just to be a well-rounded musician. It's a path you might consider though, if you want to eventually play with others and focus on just the melody line.

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gortnamona, 

tangleweeds

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Why do you feel the need for 3-finger rather than 2-finger chords?


Because,  John, I feel after 5 years of playing, I should have advanced beyond 2 finger chords. In my area I would say 3 finger vs 2 finger chords separate the men from the boys, so to speak.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Once you can play in G, everything is movable. Slide all your G chords up two frets and youre playingin A.


Steve, I do understand moveable chords. In fact, a teacher in my area has had me playing a barre A chord, along with  D and E with the same shape. I detest that barre A. I get no D string sound at all and can't figure out what to do with my thumb. Nothing is comfortable. 

Sorry to sound like such a crybaby!

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stevedenver

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> I think starting with G Major would be  good move.  There are a lot of songs played in that key.


This is what I've decided to do.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> I really like the sound of Key of G on the mandolin using 2 finger G with three finger C and D. That might be a good place to start.


So, Mark, is the D you use the same shape as C?  I've been trying to figure out the best D shape to use.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> I have to ask why you hate playing chords?  If you are having a hard time doing it, it may be a setup issue on your mandolin.  You may also have some issues with your left hand technique.  As for keys, G and D are probably the most common but after you are playing three and four note chords it doesn't matter as they are movable.


Oh, Nevin, let me count the ways.  I've been told by several my setup is fine. Playing chords hurts my fingertips  - much more than playing melody, which doesn't hurt at all. I never quite know what to do with my thumb. It's usually very curved and that's painful. So, yes, I do have left hand issues. The teacher I mentioned, as well as a friend who plays, don't seem to know how to help. I keep trying different approaches, trying to find a comfortable position.

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## Drew Egerton

Sherry, you might try out an online teacher that can see what you're struggling with and help out.
I'd highly recommend ArtistWorks with Mike Marshall but there are lots of others out there. Lots of pros willing to give lessons right now while their gigs are cancelled.

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## Mark Gunter

> So, Mark, is the D you use the same shape as C?  I've been trying to figure out the best D shape to use.


Yes. I get a lot of mileage out of ~

G: 0023
C: 5230
D: 745x

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Sherry Cadenhead

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Yes. I get a lot of mileage out of ~
> 
> G: 0023
> C: 5230
> D: 745x


I thought so. And D7?

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## Mark Gunter

D7: 545x (or 5455)
C7: 323x (or 3233)

I use those a lot, they are "rootless" - both of those forms lower the root note on the G string to the flat 7, based on the two chords I showed for C and D in the last post.

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Sherry Cadenhead

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## Mark Gunter

> I've been told by several my setup is fine. Playing chords hurts my fingertips  -


I visited Sherry a few years ago and checked the action on her mandolin, it was set up well at that time; also, a good mandolin teacher checked it IIRC.

Sherry, if you're not doing it already, I think you should try light gauge strings for awhile and see if that helps. I can tell you that playing causes pain in my fingers sometimes, but that's mostly due to my age and some arthritis as well as some neuralgia. Some years ago I decided to push through the discomfort and keep playing (I was a lifelong guitarist, this was before I picked up the mandolin). I found that I was able to play on and build up my strength bit by bit. The pain never goes away, but playing benefits my condition, especially when it comes to range of motion and strength.

I wouldn't advocate hurting oneself, but realistically for me and many others there can be some discomfort involved in playing and in training for new skills. Be wise about such things. I have overdone it at times on my way to increasing stamina and strength. Back then, when I first made the determination to push through, I remember one time I had to rest and heal for a few days. But if you persevere, and you _don't overdo it but continue to stretch yourself_, over time you can build strength and stamina - in addition to hopefully gaining some more musicality.

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Sherry Cadenhead

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## Stevo75

> Steve, I do understand moveable chords. In fact, a teacher in my area has had me playing a barre A chord, along with  D and E with the same shape. I detest that barre A. I get no D string sound at all and can't figure out what to do with my thumb. Nothing is comfortable. 
> 
> Sorry to sound like such a crybaby!


I used to think that A barre chord was really difficult, and same with the thumb - I was never sure if it should be around the back of the neck like a classical guitarist (it shouldn't) or if I could keep the same basic hand position as playing any other chord (I can now, and I believe that's the better thing to do).

I assume you're talking about the 2 2 4 5 A chord.  A couple things that helped me.  You can finger this chord with your first three fingers, or with your first finger, ring finger, and pinky finger.  I use the ring finger and pinky finger to get the 4th and 5th fret notes.  But try it the other way too.  Maybe one way works better for you.

The other thing is that I aim my first finger, the one that is barring the second fret of the G and D strings in between the string courses.  I don't worry about fretting all four strings perfectly.  I know I'll get at least one of the G strings and one of the D strings and the ones I don't get will be muted.  This is also a great trick for the Em chord that's fretted 4 2 2 3.  You'd use the same technique to fret the middle string courses.

Another great chord shape, that I think is one of the easiest closed position shapes to play, is the D chord fretted 2 4 5 x  (basically the same shape as the A barre chord but you're moving the whole shape one string lower (lower meaning lower in pitch) and you're dropping the top string (top meaning highest in pitch - the E string)).  It's also a great shape to know because it easily becomes a minor chord my moving one finger 2 3 5 x.

Hope this helps!  Keep doing it.  It becomes easier with time.

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E.R. Villalobos, 

Phil Goodson, 

Sherry Cadenhead

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## Bunnyf

Sherry, you can get pretty far with the 3 finger g- chop 523 (root high) moved across and up and down; the 233 shape (root middle) and 224 shape (root bass). They move around nicely to play in any key. I’m still working on easy movable 7s.
Btw, I’m not crazy about that a shape either and can’t get it to ring out reliably when using 1 finger to cover the g and d string. I find a full barre easier or even two separate fingers for g and d string (hold over from my uke days) but I am working on hitting that sweet spot covering the second g and first d, and just muting the first g and second d (I have fairly thin and not terribly strong fingers.

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Sherry Cadenhead

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Sherry, you might try out an online teacher that can see what you're struggling with and help out.
> I'd highly recommend ArtistWorks with Mike Marshall but there are lots of others out there. Lots of pros willing to give lessons right now while their gigs are cancelled.


Thanks, Drew.  I'll consider this, although, I feel my problem is mostly hand position.  That might be difficult to see online.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

Mark, I hope we get the chance to play together again one of these days.

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## Cobalt

Chords are not compulsory.  :Smile:  I play some, but when I play along with others, I tend to play melody, harmony-melody, runs and fill-ins, there is just so much that can be done - with any instrument - that it comes down to personal preference. And above all playing music should be enjoyable. So long as there are six guitars around me banging out the chords, I feel little need to add to them. Still, each to his or her own!

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## belbein

Sherry:  There's an easy way to learn.  I know because it's the way I learned chords on guitar, banjo, mandolin and mandola.  Choose some pieces of music you like.  Preferably from a "three chord" book (like https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/the-guitar-three-chord-songbook-volume-3-g-c-d-sheet-music/20107850?utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhZr1B  RCLARIsALjRVQPXYZYdZWfY8DkVqo6uyP4oolZjzJxB0SFEu_0  xj3I8NC-4Gj_dtjwaAsUBEALw_wcB&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_sidecar&  d=sem_ggl_{campaign_id}_&popup=false&popup=false&u  tm_source=google&ac=1&country_code=USA&sc_intid=20  107850&scid=scplp20107850) (just an example of the kind of book, I'm not hawking it and I have no financial interest).  Pick a few songs you like.  Then choose from those songs all of the songs in one particular major key.  I prefer to start with D, because that's what most of the roots music is in and that's what I like to play, but it doesn't matter.  Don't learn the CHORDS, learn the songs.  As you learn to play them more and more ably you're learning chords, chord progressions and chord changes.  If you learn the three D key chords, you've already got 2 out of 3 of the key of G  chords.  Then when you learn the  key of G chords, you'll have 2 out of three chords for the key of A.  And by that time, you'll have realized that by moving the exact same forms up one fret or two ("up"=toward the bridge) you will be changing into a new key without changing the position of your fingers. So the D chord moved 2 frets toward the bridge becomes an E, the G chord moved 2 frets toward the bridge becomes an A, and the A chord (from the key of D chords) moved one fret toward the bridge becomes an E.  That's the genius of an instrument tuned in 5ths.  And of learning to play music, not chords.  And the bonus: since you have become expert in reading music, you know where all of the notes are located on the fretboard, which means you can always find the notes that are the roots of every one of those chord forms ... from there paradise is yours.

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E.R. Villalobos

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## dadsaster

I focus on the 2 or 3-finger major chord forms that omit the e-string entirely.  The barre A -> 224x, 3-finger D -> 245x, and E -> 122x represent the 3 forms.  Once these are comfortable it's easy to learn the minor forms for all three and build from there.

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## fatt-dad

I can whistle two notes at once, but rarely do.

I don't like fussing over chords either. I suffered over the chop chords and a few of the minors, but never invested the time. Love Jethro though!

When I retire. . .  But, really playing alone and with all the melodies in my brain, I'm happy.  I do get flummoxed when I play folky stuff with others.  All those off chords!

f-d

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## JeffD

The big revelation I had was that I don't need to strum through all four courses of 
strings to do a creditable chord.  !!!?!

So all the double stops become chord enough for me. A closed form for finger chord, like the big bluegrass G chord, is made of three pairs of double stops. And any of them in a pinch will suffice as a chord.

So pick a double stop out of G chord. Move it across to make it a C chord. Move it from there up two frets to make it a D chord. Now you have a I a IV and a V chord. The whole constellation can be moved to any where up the neck - so really you have a I, IV and V chord in every key. Heck, messing around like this you don't even need to know, necessarily, what key you are in. (Not that I recommend it.)

Mess around with this for an hour and you can have a lot of fun. Soon enough you will be able  provide chord like sounds when you want, where you want, have something to contribute in most keys commonly played.

With time one can expand from there, but even so, it is a fantastic place to land and rest for a while and just enjoy what can be done.

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tree

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## tree

> The big revelation I had was that I don't need to strum through all four courses of 
> strings to do a creditable chord.


I had this revelation also on guitar, and it has really enriched my musical life.  I was copying some of George Harrison's fills and licks off Sargent Pepper (the bit following _Bil - ly Shears_ that leads into With A Little Help From My Friends). Only 3 or 4 strings, whoa! Then I noticed he does it in other places too.  Wow. Maybe you don't need all the strings all the time. 

And then when I was taking mandolin lessons from Wayne Benson he was showing me some chord theory and how much you can do with just 2 or 3 strings.  I keep experimenting and find that often, depending on the context, fewer strings actually works better.

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## JeffD

Fewer strings gives more flexibility. Three courses gives you all the up and down the neck positions, and one move side ways across the neck. Two courses gives you the same up and down the neck, but three positions across the neck.

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## tmsweeney

I love playing chords, the coolest chord I ever played was an Am7b5 on mandola which is phrased as ( stings and frets) this is the opening of McCoy Tyner's "Search for Peace"

A 6
D 5
G 5
C 9

the notes are A C G Eb

but I digress, just an open C or F on a Mandola can stop me in my tracks, forget about a CMaj7 on Mandocello, I am not going anywhere if that is happening

Double stops are not chords but they are harmonizations, the Greeks were the first to document octaves, fifths and thirds, but I am sure Harmony ( Chords are 3 and 3+ harmonized tones) but I'm sure mutli tone music is far older than that.

With music a solo performance can be captivating, memorable and moving, but so can a duet or larger group- even of the same piece of music.
I have heard some fiddlers and talk about not worrying about the chords so much, the beauty of the mandolin is it is strong as both a solo and chordal instrument.

Grisman and Burns are masters at shifting one finger and still emphasizing the chord change.

I know B.B King used to say "I don't play chords"
me I love to play chords

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GrooverMcTube

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## Mark Gunter

> Double stops are not chords but they are harmonizations, the Greeks were the first to document octaves, fifths and thirds, but I am sure Harmony ( Chords are 3 and 3+ harmonized tones) but I'm sure mutli tone music is far older than that.


I've been making a study of this. The earliest texts we have documenting intervals in music theory are Sumerian, about 5,000 years old. There was a time when Western musicologists believed the Greeks had the earliest documentation, although iconic representations in Egypt, Babylon and even earlier in cave drawings - as well as very ancient flutes tuned to pentatonic scales - did prove that multi-tone instruments existed long before any textual documentation that we've found. And that just stands to reason; people had to have thought about, experimented and taught music theory long before the Chaldeans carved it into stone or the Greeks put it on parchment. The Egyptians did little or nothing to document music theory. The earliest appears to be Babylonian, and the Greeks surely borrowed from them.

But all this is digression from the topic. I love playing chords too!

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Cobalt, 

fatt-dad

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## JeffD

I think in many cases it comes from what instruments one played before mandolin.

I came from woodwinds. And to a woodwind the world of music is a single note melody. Harmonies and chords are all someone else'a job, someone else's problem. Learning music became a bit like memorizing phone numbers. Just boop boop boop beep beep. And I got kind of good at it.

So the result was that I hated chords and avoided having to play chords for a long time, because it seemed to me and my prejudice that playing the chords was what someone does when they did not know the tune. 

It took a while to realize and learn that the mandolin can be the whole darn orchestra, and there were all these other strings besides the one the melody note was on.


I know the reverse is true as well. Very often those whose prior musical experience is folk guitar often conceive of mandolin as "just" a chord instrument. And playing the melody or singing is someone else's job.


So its kind of a mental thing. Do you conceive of music horizontally, as a string of notes over time, needing chords, like telephone poles, to hold things up now and then; or vertically, as a structure of chords like beautiful beads, with a melody there to string the beads together. Neither is true, though neither is entirely false.

Music, for me, always seems to transcend any mental model I create.  Hope that helps.

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Cobalt, 

Monkeyhat

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## mandroid

I often tend to harmonize the melody line with double stops .. 2 notes ..  Major or minor interval relationships between them..
suggesting a chord ..even a 7th..

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## dhergert

Who was it who said "there's no money above the 5th fret"?

Well, anyway, I play above the 5th fret much if not most of the time, but but I rarely use a full 4-course chord above the 5th fret.  I'll routinely cover course 1-2-3 and then I'll reach over and pinky-finger the 4th course if needed.

Double/triple-stops and chord melody pretty well dictate chording up in the hinterlands.  You can get away with vamping without chords, but personally I prefer to vamp chords too, also often above the 5th fret.

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## lowtone2

> I think in many cases it comes from what instruments one played before mandolin.
> 
> I came from woodwinds. And to a woodwind the world of music is a single note melody. Harmonies and chords are all someone else'a job, someone else's problem. Learning music became a bit like memorizing phone numbers. Just boop boop boop beep beep. And I got kind of good at it.
> 
> So the result was that I hated chords and avoided having to play chords for a long time, because it seemed to me and my prejudice that playing the chords was what someone does when they did not know the tune. 
> 
> It took a while to realize and learn that the mandolin can be the whole darn orchestra, and there were all these other strings besides the one the melody note was on.
> 
> 
> ...


Melodies are mostly made of chord tones, and different ways to connect them. My first instrument is a woodwind too, and I practice chords continuously. Music is, first of all, a craft.

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## The Og

Sherry:  Just reading this thread, here's my 2 cents...Playing chords in major keys on a mandolin is pretty easy if you use a basic bluegrass chop and can hear the chord changes.  Since you are dealing with four sets of strings, barre chords (all the strings) are fairly easy and with two basic positions you can play along in just about any picking situation.  I use (and I doubt you will find these in most booksI discovered them by drawing a mandolin fretboard, penciling in 1, 3 and 5 [do, mi and sol] notes then looking for patterns) 4-5-5-5 and 7-4-5-7.  The first position (good for E, F, G, A, B and C) is a 3-1-5-2 which is REALLY a hybrid 9th chordbut with the chop doesnt usually sound the 2 on the first (highest sounding) string.  Similarly, the second position is 5-3-1-6 (good for B, C, D, E and F) is a sixth chord.  Pair these two and a knowledge of the circle of fifths (beadgcf) and you can go a long way.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Sherry:  There's an easy way to learn.  I know because it's the way I learned chords on guitar, banjo, mandolin and mandola.  Choose some pieces of music you like.  Preferably from a "three chord" book (like https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/the-guitar-three-chord-songbook-volume-3-g-c-d-sheet-music/20107850?utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhZr1B  RCLARIsALjRVQPXYZYdZWfY8DkVqo6uyP4oolZjzJxB0SFEu_0  xj3I8NC-4Gj_dtjwaAsUBEALw_wcB&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_sidecar&  d=sem_ggl_{campaign_id}_&popup=false&popup=false&u  tm_source=google&ac=1&country_code=USA&sc_intid=20  107850&scid=scplp20107850) (just an example of the kind of book, I'm not hawking it and I have no financial interest).  Pick a few songs you like.  Then choose from those songs all of the songs in one particular major key.  I prefer to start with D, because that's what most of the roots music is in and that's what I like to play, but it doesn't matter.  Don't learn the CHORDS, learn the songs.  As you learn to play them more and more ably you're learning chords, chord progressions and chord changes.  If you learn the three D key chords, you've already got 2 out of 3 of the key of G  chords.  Then when you learn the  key of G chords, you'll have 2 out of three chords for the key of A.  And by that time, you'll have realized that by moving the exact same forms up one fret or two ("up"=toward the bridge) you will be changing into a new key without changing the position of your fingers. So the D chord moved 2 frets toward the bridge becomes an E, the G chord moved 2 frets toward the bridge becomes an A, and the A chord (from the key of D chords) moved one fret toward the bridge becomes an E.  That's the genius of an instrument tuned in 5ths.  And of learning to play music, not chords.  And the bonus: since you have become expert in reading music, you know where all of the notes are located on the fretboard, which means you can always find the notes that are the roots of every one of those chord forms ... from there paradise is yours.


Belbein, I've thought of doing something like this, as I'm still having the chord struggle months after I started this thread.  Speed of moving between chords is a particular challenge.  I suppose only practice will help - although I also struggle with knowing the best chord shape for a tune.  (I could use input on this.)

Mostly I work on melody with my classical violinist teacher.  I need be more consistent in adding chords to my practice time.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Sherry:  Just reading this thread, here's my 2 cents...Playing chords in major keys on a mandolin is pretty easy if you use a basic bluegrass chop and can “hear” the chord changes.  Since you are dealing with four sets of strings, barre chords (all the strings) are fairly easy and with two basic positions you can play along in just about any picking situation.  I use (and I doubt you will find these in most books…I discovered them by drawing a mandolin fretboard, penciling in 1, 3 and 5 [do, mi and sol] notes then looking for patterns) 4-5-5-5 and 7-4-5-7.  The first position (good for E, F, G, A, B and C) is a 3-1-5-2 which is REALLY a hybrid 9th chord…but with the chop doesn’t usually sound the 2 on the first (highest sounding) string.  Similarly, the second position is 5-3-1-6 (good for B, C, D, E and F) is a sixth chord.  Pair these two and a knowledge of the circle of fifths (beadgcf) and you can go a long way.


Thanks.  I'll work on this.

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## Bunnyf

Sherry, I’ve been following this thread for awhile now and I have to agree. Hate is a strong word, but I surely prefer not playing chords. I can do it. I just rather not. I use the Og’s method. The two patterns mentioned are my usual too. I take either the three finger chop or my fav-3rd on the left shoulder of the 1, 5 just to the right. Moving these to the right and left or in an L-shape, I can play the 1,4,5 chords in any key. Combine this with playing melody in a closed scale, putting your index finger anywhere you want to be the root and your set. 

Knowing this, though, doesn’t make me like it. I like how the violinist in our jam usually kinda chills and does melodic fills throughout the song and takes a solo when it comes to him. He doesn’t really bother playing much on the rhythm side. Sure he occasionally does his little bouncy staccato chordal thing (I don’t know if it’s just little double stop chords) but it’s more of an accent. He usually just does a little embellished echo of the melody or some other cool fill in the gap between sung lines and does a simple melodic break when it his turn. This is the kind of playing I prefer. Sure, someone has to play rhythm but I prefer it to not be me. If there are already enough players in a jam, I enjoy playing like the violinist (especially if there is no violinist). For me, it’s just more fun. 

That said, knowing chords and being able to play rhythm is a good thing and worthy of some practice time. Just finding a couple of patterns that you like (and knowing where the 1 is in that pattern) and moving them across or in an L on the fretboard gets you pretty far. Anyway, Sherry, I get what mean when you say you “hate” chords.

----------

Sherry Cadenhead

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## DougC

I hated chords and probably still do, ha, ha. However the problem was my attitude. And I learned that I _am learning,_ though not as quickly as I'd like.

As a violin player, chords are not the focus. In most situations like orchestras, or even bluegrass bands where there is a guitar doing chords, the 'chords' are made from the combined sounds of the instruments.  

I did learn the guitar players, mostly jazz and classical folks, look for the smallest movement from chord to chord. This demands that you know the melody well. 

Hope this helps.

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## CBFrench

Don't hate playing chords as that's where the beauty lies...explore various genre's, 2-3 positions for each chord, two and three note chords are very powerful. I really like playing without a pick using my thumb and/or index finger for chords and single or double note passages. Don't get stuck on genre tempos, play anything at the tempo you feel. You can take any tune from any genre and make it your own. Remember that chords are moveable, take a simple 3 chord song like You Are My Sunshine, start with Key of D so that'll be D G A and play those chords and sing it, then start moving it to different keys, G C D, A D E, E A B etc. Once you start getting comfortable with different chord positions a light bulb will come on and you'll advance from there. A mandolin is a great chord accompaniment instrument

I'm a home player now and don't care to play in a so-called jam setting but had rather play alone or at best with a couple of open minded folks not locked into a genre.

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## JeffD

I see that I have already responded with everything I think about the subject. But I continue to want to be helpful, and if the original poster Sherry, or anyone else, has an ahaaa moment from anything I have contributed, it will make my heart sing.

So here is something. Its more of a mental thing than substantively different from what I or anyone has said here before.

I say, don't bother learning chords. Don't bother learning chord finger configurations and memorizing their association with letters of the alphabet. That can all be learned later. Now is the time for fun. 

What can be done is this - using Picklosers guide to double stops, or any other double stop guide, (my prejudice is that Picklosers is the best). And perhaps a competent and patient piano player - figure out the particular second note that will go with what ever note you are on. You only need to learn this once. 

So say your index finger is on this particular fret, this particular string. Learn where from there is something that will work as part of a major chord for that note. I am partial to down one string and down one fret, but there are many options. 

Only two more things to learn - from that same index finger position, discover where you can move to do two of the notes of the four chord, and two of the notes of the five chord. Not difficult. Can be done. The piano friend can be of service if you are not using Picklosers guide, but in any event it is not crazy hard.

Then practice the potatoes out of them. For every index finger position you will have the major chord piece for that note, and where to go from there for the fourth chord and the fifth chord. Practice it everywhere.

At this point, without learning the name or configuration of a single darn chord, you have a way of harmonizing and providing excellent support, for 85% of the music you are likely to come into contact with, in any key at all. Up the neck, anywhere.  

Start with the melodies you know. Soon enough the rest will come into place. With a little practice, with others at a jam or with recordings you may have, you will hear when to switch and where to switch to (my particular hurdle), and within a short time you will have become a freaking monster being able to contribute substantive backup to anything in any key, and to provide a full orchestral multi note sound to your melodies.

Eventually, without trying, your ear tunnels a direct connection to your fingers, and you can hear what you need to do, without even consciously thinking about it. The key thing here is that it happens in time, without even trying to do it. Trust the force Luke, trust the force.

After enjoying the ever loving asparagus out of this kind of playing for a year, you may want to go on and figure out the chords themselves, or the "why" of it all. Or not. It doesn't matter. 

Can you imagine contributing substantively in a jam without knowing what key you are in, just by copping the proper index finger anchor point from the fiddle player? Fun awaits.

----------

DougC, 

Sheila Lagrand, 

SOMorris

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## JeffD

I think this kind of thing described above provides much more immediate competence than learning chord configurations and copping the chords from the guitar. Which believe me is how I tried to go about it at first. 

Of course by now I have been doing this for a truck load of years, and have dived deep into the hows and whys of it all. I even have wondered into classical music, where I can hide from chords and harmonies and anything not written out for me. With all of that, when attending a jam, and we start playing, I fall back on my closed position double stops and chord stubs, learned relative to a particular index finger position and not to a particular key or note, and I manage to have more fun than someone with my level of understanding should have.

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## journeybear

As others have suggested, concentrate on the key of G for a while. It's used quite often, the chords are fairly simple to form, and they live at the low end of the strings, where the tension is a bit less, causing you less pain.

There are simpler fingerings that should be easier to play with. G 0023 is as easy as it gets. For C, if you don't like barring, as in 0233, try 5230 or x520. For D, the 2002 is a magnificent chord, one of my favorites. Indeed, give it a good hard strum and let it ring and fade. If you're ever discouraged, just do that - it will make you fall in love with the mandolin again.  :Mandosmiley: 

I mean, listen to the opening chord on this. It's just marvelous, to my ears. Pretty sure it's that D chord. Making the mandolin sound like this is a real treat, which could be yours. Keep at it - you'll get there.  :Mandosmiley: 

[/QUOTE]

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## JeffD

The mandolin is an ocean, with infinite pathways traversing its surface. You don't need to learn them all. You only need to learn how to get to where you want to get to, and how to get either back home or on to some other place from there. 

Two dirty little secrets that musicians rarely admit: 

No matter how accomplished, nobody knows all the paths across this ocean. Even the mighty Thile has his collection of comfortable paths and destinations, which no matter how many he knows, is only a small fraction of what there is to know. Sure he is above me. But he is not really that much closer to the moon than I am. And we both are just doing what we can, what we know.

And secondly, everyone is only playing the tunes they know. No matter what, there is an infinity of tunes they don't know. Nobody, really, is playing the mandolin, they are, all of them, like me, playing things they know on the mandolin.

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Explorer, 

Sue Rieter

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## NDO

I really appreciate this thread, not because I dislike chording but because I love it maybe a little too much. I just started mandolin as my first stringed instrument about five months ago, partly because I wanted a way to provide backing for vocals and harmonica when my band wasnt around to jam with. So I just learned some chords and started playing a few songs I already knew, which was a fun and easy way to start. Im up to about twenty songs that are suitable for playing for friends at the brewery. I appreciate the information on this thread which has provided me some great insights on alternate fingerings for chords, and helping me transition to closed chords. My next quest is how to get my brain to switch from chording as a main vocal accompaniment to chording as a rhythm backing, and also how to switch between chords and melody picking and back again in the middle of a song. For instance on Alan Jacksons Remember When, I can do the intro and then switch to chords and vocals through the rest of the song, but there are some great little picking breaks after the intro and I struggle to jump into them and normally just chord all the way through the rest of the song.

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## catmandu2

> ...everyone is only playing the tunes they know. No matter what, there is an infinity of tunes they don't know. Nobody, really, is playing the mandolin, they are, all of them, like me, playing things they know on the mandolin.


No offense intended, but I think you're drastically reducing the realm of music and totally missing on essential factors - by boiling it all down to "a bunch of tunes"..

An artist is vastly more than this, as is the quality, value, and meaning of his/her work.  What Thile "knows" (if this terminology has any utility) is a different universe than where most of us dwell, and probably _is_ closer to the celestial bodies.  :Wink:

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## sblock

Sherry -- Something to realize, in case you don't know it already:  three- and four-finger chords have the virtue that these forms can be shifted around on the neck of the mandolin. Once you learn one basic hand shape, you can move it to other positions on the neck to get different named chords. Two-finger chords, in contrast, have to rely on some open string to get the third note of the chord, and there are only four possible open notes: G,D,A,E.  If one of those four notes isn't a chord tone, then it will not be possible to play a two-fingered version of it. And if you just play two fretted notes at the same time, you are -- by definition! -- playing a double-stop, and _not_ a chord.

In other words, three- and four-finger chords are versatile and "universal" on the mandolin. but two-finger chords are rigidly idiosyncratic.  

Put in the work, I'd urge you. Learn to play three- and four-finger chord shapes and move amongst them: your playing technique will benefit, and your music should improve.

If you play music with others, the chances are good (in most musical genres, anyway; there are some exceptions) that you will spend a lot more time playing chords than playing lead.

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## Bill McCall

I’d learn G chords:
455x for G
523x for C or 023x
745 for D or 245x
022x for Em or 457x

But play for fun.  Learn lots of melodies, there’s plenty of tunes to enjoy in all genres.

Horn players don’t play chords, so be easy on yourself.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

Thanks to The Og for bringing this thread back to life. I had forgotten I had even started it and just started a new thread in the Newbies group, asking how others successfully transitioned from 2 to 3 finger chords. I see there are lots of suggestions here and I intend to try them all. I figure most of my problem is in my head, not in my hands.

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DougC, 

Rick Jones

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## Bob Gnann

Hi Sherry.  Just a few thoughts regarding chords.  I played guitar (and sang) in a bluegrass groups / jams before playing mandolin about 20 some years ago.  I still play guitar but not as my main instrument.  The guitar was / is primarily a rhythm in instrument in that ensemble setting.  I feel that the mandolin should also be approached as not just a lead instrument but also a compliment to others you are playing with.  If you are playing only your part I feel you are missing the chance to contribute more to to the total sound.  Learning full chords will greatly enhance your ability to play rhythm and rhythm is the basic building block that all music starts with.   Approaching the mandolin as only a lead instrument leaves a lot of musical possibilities unexplored.  It's well worth the time to expand your horizons by learning full chords.

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Jess L., 

Sherry Cadenhead

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## Zach Wilson

I love playing chords and I love chopin', that's why they keep me around at jams  :Laughing:

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gfury, 

Rick Jones, 

Tom Haywood

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## Tom Haywood

> I love playing chords and I love chopin', that's why they keep me around at jams


I agree 1000%. Knowledge of some chords and chord progressions is essential to playing with others if you are playing traditional-based music. Some violin players can get along sort of OK without knowing all that. The ones who only know how to play melody and fills and who play it consistently on top of the singers and other lead players (mostly classical violinists, in my experience) find themselves in less demand over time. Ninety percent of the mandolin's job is as a rhythm instrument, so chords, strumming, and chops are integral parts of playing it. Folks want to hear the lead played by the mandolin. Maybe that takes the most practice, but I suggest it remains secondary to the rhythm practice. Being familiar with the various chord forms will make melody and lead playing easier in due time. To me, this may dictate getting some lessons from a music teacher who is also a good mandolin player.

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## journeybear

> I figure most of my problem is in my head, not in my hands.


Some wise person said, "Free your mind; the rest will follow." I figure it will help if you find some chords that sound good to you, and are easy to play. Playing them, listening to them, should inspire you to play more - increasing your enjoyment level, as it were. 

For me, the ones that do this for me are the abovementioned D 2002 and G 0023. Playing them will nearly always bring me out of whatever gloom I may be in. Minor chords that also work, filling me with feeling, are Em7 4253 and Am 2235. That first one may look daunting, but it's a really comfortable fit. And what a sound! Slightly more exotic chords like G6 0020 and Cma7 5223 are also beautiful to my ears. 

All I'm saying is, offset your general dislike of playing chords with chords that you like playing, like to hear, and you should get past this obstacle, and sooner than you'd think. Find what works for you and work it.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Sherry Cadenhead

Update from original April 2020 post:

I've been playing 2 finger chords again for a few months now.  I can switch easily and enjoy playing them.  I do have a local mandolin teacher I manage to see about once a month.  He's been working with me on 3 finger chords, but really wants me to master that dreaded barre A.  Anyway, when I practice, I start out with 3 fingers, only to revert back to 2 fingers out of frustration.  I practice with a metronome or play along with YouTube videos, sometimes downloaded to Transcribe! where I can change the key.  If I'm playing 2 finger chords, my rhythm is good.  My regular (classical violin) teacher has beat into me the importance of always maintaining the beat.

Based on suggestions that have been made in the Forum and Newbies group, I've set up a notebook with tunes from Dix Bruce's Parking Lot Picker's Song Book.  I've chosen G major and only songs with 3 chords.  A couple of people have said they like that 2 finger G, which I've played for sometime.  I plan to combine it with the 3 finger C nearby, shifting to D (although I love the 7 chords, so I'll need to figure out how to make D7 at that location (which I think Mark Gunter has given me somewhere. (I've always played 2032.)))  I'm starting this strategy today.

I appreciate all the comments.

Sherry

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Tom Haywood

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## journeybear

Aha. Reading this, I realize I may have been putting too much emphasis on the title of this thread and its implications. I'm sorry if I've been off topic as a result. (There's probably some useful information in my posts, anyway.  :Whistling:  )

So I'll just add this. There's another D7 chord in that area, if 2032 gives you problems. It's 2435. I will grant it doesn't have a D note, but it fulfills the function otherwise. It may be easier to play for you; everyone's different.

There's also another A chord, which your teacher may not like, because of its open strings. That's 6200. It's a bit odd, but it has all the notes, and it pairs well with D 2002.

Alrighty then! Keep at it.  :Mandosmiley:

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> Aha. Reading this, I realize I may have been putting too much emphasis on the title of this thread and its implications. I'm sorry if I've been off topic as a result. (There's probably some useful information in my posts, anyway.  )
> 
> So I'll just add this. There's another D7 chord in that area, if 2032 gives you problems. It's 2435. I will grant it doesn't have a D note, but it fulfills the function otherwise. It may be easier to play for you; everyone's different.
> 
> There's also another A chord, which your teacher may not like, because of its open strings. That's 6200. It's a bit odd, but it has all the notes, and it pairs well with D 2002.
> 
> Alrighty then! Keep at it.


No apology necessary!  You have made some valuable comments, and I always like encouragement to play a 2 finger chord!

2032 doesn't give me problems at all.  I just figure there's a better fit when playing in the movable D area.

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## Sherry Cadenhead

> No apology necessary!  You have made some valuable comments, and I always like encouragement to play a 2 finger chord!
> 
> 2032 doesn't give me problems at all.  I just figure there's a better fit when playing in the movable D area.


Sometimes I post before I think things through!  That 2032 D7 works great with 0023 (or (x)523) and 523(x).

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## bigskygirl

For D7 good ol’ 545x is not a huge move off the C chord and you can always do a diagonal 7th chord, in this case for D7 it’s 5432 or just use 3 of the notes...the mando generally doesn’t have to be concerned with the root note you get to decide what you like the sound of best.

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Rick Jones, 

Sherry Cadenhead

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## Mark Gunter

> For D7 good ol’ 545x is not a huge move off the C chord and you can always do a diagonal 7th chord, in this case for D7 it’s 5432 or just use 3 of the notes...the mando generally doesn’t have to be concerned with the root note you get to decide what you like the sound of best.


Im with bigskygirl: For D to D7,  7-4-5-x to 5-4-5-x is usually my choice. Use that all the time. The note at fret 7 is the root (D) and when you lower it a full step you get the flatted 7 (C note). Both chords leave out the 5th. That D chord plays 1st-3rd-8v (8v = octave, or root) and the D7 plays b7-3rd-8v

The diagonal 7th chord bigskygirl mentions, 5-4-3-2, also omits the 5th. It could be spelled b7-3rd-b7-3rd and that of course is moveable all over the neck to change the chord name. The D7 iteration being discussed can be altered by playing a two-finger variation at 5-0-0-2! That is to me a beautiful open chord but I use it judiciously, where an open ringing chord is called for. It spells b7-1st-5th-3rd

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gfury

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## Tom Haywood

Sherry, that all looks like excellent planning and progress. As somebody indicated, don't work at it too hard. Keep it enjoyable, but do play one of those new chord forms at least once every day. The difficulty will be gone before long.

I'm a big fan of 2 finger open "chords". That voicing sounds best (to my ear) in folk, country, fiddle tunes, and anything "modal" - in short, most of the music you are probably playing. Three finger triangular shape chord voicings (leading to the four finger chop chord) sound best in bluegrass and in other styles where you need a strong major chord sound. Knowledge of them gives you quick access to whatever chord you might happen to need anywhere on the fret board - including extended chords such as the 7th, and it gives you a good understanding of the fret board overall. Not having that voice available tends to cause serious bluegrassers to want another mandolin player. Bar shaped chord voicings work best for me in jazz, swing, and rock styles. They probably give the best access to minor chords, extended chords, and understanding the fretboard, but they are the least useful voicings in the music styles I currently play.

FWIW, I play regularly with a professional musician who primarily plays finger style delta blues guitar with a lot of slide. His focus over the years has not been on full chords and chord structure. When he comes to the jam sessions and tries to lead a song, very few people can follow him through the chord progression, because he doesn't really play it. His approach leads him to, shall we say, unique timing (which is part of that genre) which nobody can follow. He is best as a solo artist, but frustrated because he wants to play other styles with a band. At age 70, he is making progress in learning chords, true chord progressions, and good timing based on playing chords. Most everyone at the jams are beginning to really look forward to him being there.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

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## Bill McCall

You can build a 7 chord by either dropping the root or raising the 5.  So 243x is pretty simple, so is 545x.  You need the 3 and the b7, the 1 and 5 are optional.  I wouldn’t bother with all 4 strings either.

Ymmv

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## JeffD

> Two-finger chords, in contrast, have to rely on some open string to get the third note of the chord, and there are only four possible open notes: G,D,A,E.  If one of those four notes isn't a chord tone, then it will not be possible to play a two-fingered version of it. And if you just play two fretted notes at the same time, you are -- by definition! -- playing a double-stop, and _not_ a chord.


While you are correct, I disagree.  :Smile:  

It is my personal opinion that in ensemble performance, in most cases, I am not responsible for every darn note in the chord. Some guitar or banjo or maybe even the melody player, will have that note. Even in playing alone, so many times the flow of the tune itself will fill in the ambiguity of the two-note double stop. On quick passages this is especially true.

The exceptions can be dealt with, or ignored.  :Smile: 

It is a cheat, i admit.  :Smile:  If the goal is do it all, you are 100% right, no denying it. But if the goal is have a lot of fun and play the potatoes out of your instrument until such time it matters enough to do it right... well I am your man. Nobody has ever caught me at this, and if I had to do it right before I did anything I would never have done anything.


Anyone wondering why I would never teach this stuff, well now you know  :Smile:

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journeybear

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## JeffD

> No offense intended, but I think you're drastically reducing the realm of music and totally missing on essential factors - by boiling it all down to "a bunch of tunes"..
> 
> An artist is vastly more than this, as is the quality, value, and meaning of his/her work.  What Thile "knows" (if this terminology has any utility) is a different universe than where most of us dwell, and probably _is_ closer to the celestial bodies.


Nah.  :Smile: 

While true musicians have earned my respect and awe, the instrument has more possibilities than even they use. All musicians, no matter how good or accomplished, have their "querencia" out of which they play. (A pretty cool word, "querencia" comes from bullfighting, where a bull stakes out his querencia, a certain part of the bull ring where he feels strong and capable. I hardly ever get to use this word. Yay!)

Of course few musicians say this in front of non-musicians or the audience. They deliberately portray the false image that they can do it all, when truth is, they can do what they do, and it is never all.


My apologies for what has perhaps turned into a hijack of the thread. Your regularly scheduled program returns after this.  :Smile:

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## catmandu2

> Nah. 
> 
> While true musicians have earned my respect and awe, the instrument has more possibilities than even they use. All musicians, no matter how good or accomplished, have their "querencia" out of which they play. (A pretty cool word, "querencia" comes from bullfighting, where a bull stakes out his querencia, a certain part of the bull ring where he feels strong and capable. I hardly ever get to use this word. Yay!)
> 
> Of course few musicians say this in front of non-musicians or the audience. They deliberately portray the false image that they can do it all, when truth is, they can do what they do, and it is never all.
> 
> 
> My apologies for what has perhaps turned into a hijack of the thread. Your regularly scheduled program returns after this.



Can you please provide examples of musicians "deliberately portray(ing) the false image that they can do it all"?  What does this even mean?   Can you clarify what you're talking about?

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## catmandu2

Ive some time here, so ...

What is "_all_"?  Of course, (we) are using the same instrument, essentially.  But the instrument is just the tool, the vehicle of expression.  It has limitations.  Are you not hearing something, say, by Thile, that you would _like_ to hear played on a mandolin?  Where is he lacking?

Artists are usually searching for something more and are rarely content to play their "set bag" in perpetuity; "tunes" - bigger, faster, more complex - are just a slice of it.  For the improvising musician, such as Thile, new sounds, approaches, ideas are always possible.  At such level of musicianship, the amount of information contained in each and every note is "worlds" beyond what the casual player is imbuing on the instrument or in the music.

But of course, this is just what _I_ hear. 
 Mileage, of course, varies.

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## catmandu2

But hey I like to hear your experience - we's all different  :Mandosmiley:    It's music!

*heres some stuff from Charlie Haden that always stuck with me. http://www.newsavanna.com/meandering...7/me10707.html

And if we can hear that in our playing, as we all should at least sometimes (chords or not), it should inspire us. I believe we can all attain that beauty.  That would be my conception of "all."   :Smile:   Maybe that's what you were saying?  I don't know.

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## NDO

This thread has been super helpful for me. It prompted me to find an alternate voicing for an F#m chord that made a much easier transition from A to F#m to B7.  And in a different song from A to F#m to D.

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## journeybear

That F#m, it's not 6402, is it? And it sure better not be F#m7 6400 that's running in your mind now, because I invented it. Yes, that's right - MY invention!  :Mad:  Dang! I knew I should have copyrighted it.  :Crying: 

But yeah - your second song, then, could go 6200 6400 2002 - three two-finger, two open-string chords in a row.  :Mandosmiley:

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## journeybear

> ... if I had to do it right before I did anything I would never have done anything.


Indeed, sir. This reminds me of something I deduced back in the old days, when I was urgently trying to get good enough to play with other people - not just for fun, but also to learn from them and improve my playing from this newly acquired knowledge. I devised a plan where, in order to get good, first I had to get good at "faking it." That is, find some riffs that were strong enough to impress better players, yet not be clichés, and enough of them so I could sit in the big guys' circle until it came my turn to play a lead, and acquit myself well for those few seconds. This did work well enough, and I was able to learn from listening to them and watching how they did it, and translate that into my own playing. Somewhere along the line, though, I began to wonder whether this "faking it" had instead evolved to be my own style, so to speak - if I had the gumption to call the way I was playing a style. I may never know the true answer to this conundrum. But at least I did overcome my self-doubt concerning perfecting my skill, which kept me from languishing in assumed imperfection.

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## The Og

“We are what we repeatedly do“ is a quote most often attributed to Aristotle.  Aside from the implication that practice makes perfect there is also the reality that, since we all undergo an experience that is unique to no one but ourself, each of us ultimately travels down a path that is entirely our own.  Applied to the mandolin, we do not (cannot) play/sound like someone else…we have our own distinct sound and (unfortunately, since perfection is an illusion) proficiency level.  I have NEVER tried to play note-for-note passages like someone else…everything is an adaptation of what I (after years of trial and error) can do.  I play it like me!  The moral of the story is play what you hear, feel and can do…have fun!

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## catmandu2

Yet, there is another aspect in music - that which compels others to engage in lifelong listening, emulation, endless experimentation, research and analysis, and what, for lack of less abstruse terms, constitutes _art_.

I like this old gem https://youtu.be/QwXAqIaUahI

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