Morris Vs Kratzer mandolins

[old dog]

Hello everyone, I have been doing my homework for a while and have my choices narrowed to either Barry Kratzer or Howard Morris. I have decided that my purchase will be from a U. S. Manufacturer. I like what I see from the one-man/family builders. Both builders seem like fine gentlemen. Can anyone give me any first hand pros or cons about their products, in particular, flat tops? Also, one builder uses adjustable truss rods and the other does not. Is this an issue either way? Thank you.
-Old Dog

[multidon]

I have played neither. I have only seen them in the classifieds. I know that Morris uses no adjustable truss rods in any of his instruments. They get great reviews here, but I have heard of at least 2 instances where there were issues with the neck. Kratzer does use adjustable rods in his carved tops, but not sure about the flat tops. Some say the adjustable rod is not necessary, but speaking for myself I would want to have one just in case. If they are not necessary, why did Gibson start using them in the 1920s, touting them as an improvement?

Update: I just checked the classifieds and the Kratzers DO have an adjustable truss rod. The one for 550 looks like a lot of mandolin for the price.

[jazzjune18]

Can't speak for Barry's Mandos, but the Morris Mandos are a great value in my opinion. I have had one for a few years and have zero complaints. Granted, I am selling it but only because I upgraded to something MUCH more expensive . I have not played his flat tops, but based on the quality of his carved tops I can almost guarantee they are great. Not to mention sonny is great to work with. I think he has a couple available now. Regarding the steel rod opposed to truss rod. I have a number of Mandos with steel rods that I have had for years and the have given me zero problems.

[allenhopkins]

...one builder uses adjustable truss rods and the other does not. Is this an issue either way?...

An adjustable truss rod is a nice thing to have; it allows you to correct the "relief" (slight concave curvature) of the neck to the correct level, without the more complicated, invasive and expensive process of taking off the fretboard and planing the neck.

But is it necessary? I have a raft of old mandolins -- Gibsons, bowl-backs, mandolin-banjos, mandocelli, etc. -- without truss rods, and with no neck relief problems. Inexpensive, more modern mandos, like my Strad-O-Lin, often lack them; again, mine is fine, after 50+ years.

Morris apparently installs a steel reinforcement rod in the necks of his mandolins (at least the F-models, don't know about the flat-tops). This isn't adjustable, so its preventive rather than corrective of neck warping. I might be a tad more cautious about a new mandolin, as the neck's wood might undergo some change -- whereas a century-old Gibson F-2 has probably been through all the self-adjusting it's going to.

Morris is a luthier with a very positive Cafe reputation, and I'm sure he would make any adjustments you might require after playing your mandolin for a while. I wouldn't make an adjustable vs. non-adjustable truss rod into a deal breaker.

[spufman]

You've narrowed it down to two excellent choices, absolutely. You're gonna be happy either way. Try and find some soundclips to get an idea of each and let that be the deciding factor.

[pops1]

I have had a Kratzer, but not a Morris. Was not a flat top, but a nice mandolin. I think either would be a good choice. Eeenie Meanie Miney Mo.

[Northwest Steve]

I have not had the opportunity to try either and both seem to make fine mandolins. I live about 3+ hours away from Sonny and would like to visit his shop and play a few one day. There was one mandolin of his I have seen on the café with a problem with the neck, but that mandolin seemed to have not been treated with loving care? He does laminate three pieces of maple for the neck (as stated in his ads) and does have a non-adjustable rod in there, Seems to me that would be fairly stable. I do find it interesting that the people that do bring up the adjustable truss rod issue usually have not played or owned his mandolins? Anyway if you could up your budget slightly Sonny has a two point carved top and back mandolin brand new for $900 in the classifieds. I would think you would be happy with that mandolin for a long time and he has a return if you did not. Goode luck in the search and I bet you will be happy with which ever you choose.

[lflngpicker]

Hi. Howard Morris made me a custom build with wood choices and a K and K pickup installed. I do not have a flattop, but it is an oval hole. These are great mandolins with wonderful tone, sustain and a consistently beautiful appearance. The fit and finish are high end quality. The attention to detail and pictures along the way as your mandolin build is in progress, are a nice touch Howard provides with an order.

My Morris' neck is straight and beyond stable. Funny thing-- I have played guitar for over 50 years and my experience has included numbers of guitars and several mandolins. Most never need the truss rod adjusted. I have owned three Martin Guitars (including my present 1996 D28) which do not have a truss rod adjustment capability and their necks, like Sonny's are very stable. I do not have experience with the Kratzer, but to pay just over $1,000 for a really nice instrument, hand made, is a big plus for H Morris.

[George R. Lane]

Here is a video form another thread that features a Morris A model with f holes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlilJ

[Mike Scott]

I had a carved top Bulldog mandolin earlier in my mandolin playing days. I have small fingers and the string courses were too far apart so I had a new nut installed. Apparently it had an issue with the fret board too and that was fixed at the same time. I was a beginner at that time so I really couldn't tell the difference except for the courses being tighter. It had a great tone and I wish I had never sold it, but at the time I really didn't think mandolin playing was my thing. I think Barry builds good mandolins and wouldn't hesitate to purchase from him again. I am jonesing for an F style and am considering having him build it for me.

I have not played a Morris, but like Northwest Steve am about 3 hours away and he has a new F for sale now so....... Both have great reps so I would take a look at both. As an earlier poster said Barry has a pretty killer deal on a flat top right now. Best of luck with your decision.

[Pete Braccio]

I got Bulldog #1 in a trade almost ten years ago. A LOT of mandolins have gone and gone since then, but that one has always stayed with me. That is the only mandolin of Barry's that I've ever played, but from that sample size of one, I'd go with Kratzer.

Pete

[Mandobart]

I've never seen nor played a Kratzer. I've been enjoying my Morris for the past 5 years with no problems at all. I live about an hour's drive from Sonny and have played with him several times at our Old Time Fiddler's jams. I've played probably ten of his instruments over the years and they are all great. The sound and playability rivals instruments costing three times what Sonny Morris asks.

[Frank Russell]

I'll throw my hat in the ring for a Morris flat top. I've played a few Kratzers, and they were very good, but I haven't played one of his flat tops. I own a Morris flat top that he made to my specs, and it sounds more like a carved top oval-hole than any other pancake I've ever played. Fine workmanship, great price, and a really good guy to deal with. Of the 30-odd mandos I've owned over the years, I had one that needed a truss rod adjustment, and it was a rare defective Weber with horrible neck relief issues that the truss rod adjustment didn't help anyway. As stated before, Sonny stands by his work, so if there's an issue, he'll fix it. Two good choices, don't see a problem either way. Frank

[ahasverus]

Can't speak to the Morris, but I have a Kratzer F-model. Had it built and was delivered in May. Barry is a standup guy, real fun to talk to and goes out of his way to make all right. I love my Kratzer and will never part with it by choice. The thing I dig about Barry's instruments is that they are very soulful. Well, and they sound amazing. Mine has an incredible chop and it hasn't even opened up yet. Those flat tops he posted looked sweet. I wouldn't hesitate! Cheers! -Gantt

[pheffernan]

As you are located in Georgia, I'd suggest that there might be some value beyond sentimental to working with a local builder like Barry Kratzer.

[Steve Williams]

I have both a Kratzer and Morris flat top, they are both fine mandolins. The Kratzer has a longer fretboard and solid bridge, the Morris fretboard is radiused with an adjustable bridge. The Kratzer has a spruce top/sycamore sides and back, the Morris is cedar/maple. The Kratzer is louder, but has been played for several years, the Morris is only a couple months old. That said, the Morris is developing a lovely complex sound, and I play it twice a week at a coffee house gig where it really shines.
Workmanship for both is way above their price point, and Barry and Sonny are both wonderful men to work with. You have picked two fine instruments to consider - both real "sleepers" in my experience. You won't go wrong with either one.

[old dog]

I thank everyone for their inputs. I took a look at the Morris two-point Northwest Steve pointed out. Pulled the trigger last night after speaking with Howard earlier in the day. My two-point should be enroute by Thursday. I'll let everyone know all about it after it arrives. Happy New Year to all. -Old Dog

[PaulVA]

Congrats old dog! Off topic, but in regard to Iflngpicker's post and mention of Martin Guitars, all Martins made since the late 1980's or so have adjustable truss rods. It's not obvious, as the adjustment nut is not in the headstock as with Gibsons, but inside the body - you access the nut with a 5 MM Allen wrench through the sound hole - it's in a cavity under the fretboard extension. Just so you know you can adjust the truss rod on your '96 if ever desired.

[lflngpicker]

Hi Paul, Wow! Thanks, I never noticed that, if you can believe it?! I started on my dad's 1948 00018 Martin and then I bought a 1970 D35 in 1974, which of course was the old set up (that guitar was stolen out of my apartment when I was a blossoming Singer/Songwriter). I apologize for my claim about Martins, though innocent :redface:, and I am in your debt for pointing out the correct information, PaulVA! Well, I just gave my Guild D55 (1976) its first truss rod adjustment in nearly 40 years. All said and done, I tried 1.25 turns but had to back it off to only a 1/4 turn. I could have done without that. I did notice that action in the first position was much easier for finger style. Thus, our point, unless there is a serious issue, most action adjustments can be made with the nut, bridge and fret work done in a typical set up. My Morris has a very straight and stable neck. Each musician knows what is best for their situation, to be sure :). Thanks again, Paul!

[Northwest Steve]

Old Dog... Interested if you have had a chance to play it and what your thoughts are?

[old dog]

Northwest Steve, Yes, I have played it a bit now and can tell you that it is a wonderful instrument. I have played a Breedlove (excellent playability and OK sound), an Ovation (excellent sound, but a high set-up), and an electric Mandocaster (easy to play but sounds electric). My two-point Morris is very easy to play, has excellent tone (to my ear anyway) and looks like it should cost twice as much. It is not that loud, but perhaps that is partially my technique. Anyway, I just play for myself at home, so it doesn't matter very much. I couldn't be happier with it. -Old Dog_

[Northwest Steve]

Glad to hear you like it. since it is new you might find the tone and loudness develop over time. I have two mandolins that changed considerably after playing them for a while. I would also suggest trying some different pics, I can not believe the difference my Primetone 1.3mm rounded picks make. Much better tone and noticeably louder. It might be work getting on the pick sampler list to see. Also strings can make a difference as well.
.

[oldpoet41]

After reading this thread, I too purchased a mandolin from Howard Morris. I got the A5 from the classifieds and have had it a couple of weeks. (How about that, Old Dog and Old Poet both got a Morris mandolin the same week).
The thing I am most impressed with is the responsiveness of the instrument. As Northwest Steve said, picks make a huge difference in tone and volume. The mandolin is more alive than anything I've ever played and the slightest change in attack and pick weight makes you think you're playing a different mandolin.