Giacomel?

[Chiledog]

I have been watching the NAMM thread, and I would like to know why the commotion about this mando. I know Grisman is involved, is this like his Signature model or something?

I need a history lesson folks, if you please!

Thanks,
Todd

[JEStanek]

Todd,

David Grisman got the Giacomel mandolin from Corrado Giacomel (http://www.corradogiacomel.it/indexE.htm) a couple of years ago. I first heard it when he played it with the DGQ. It is a very nicely built, great sounding instrument. If it replaced his Loar, Crusher, you know it's something special.

David and Eastman strings have apparently joined forced to make copies of instruments in his collection. So far, we know Corrado and David are allowing the Eastman Giacomel copy, and there is a Bacon Artist model. Sean, dang his hide, is mum on the others.

By looking at the lower res photos here of the Eastman Giacomel copy, they got the build look down just right. This would be someone's opportunity to get a mandolin that looks like a $12K one for $2-3K. Eastman, I personally feel, has demonstrated they can build good instruments.

Think of these like the Kentucky Dawg mandolins from the 80s. Will they be as good, we'll see. Will they be as collectable, depends upon how many are made. Regardless, it's very exciting to see a production company like Eastman making repros of these old (or new!) famous instruments.

Some more history, about 2 months ago, John Bernunzio went to China and an Eastman factory tour. On his trip report on his website, the Giacomel copy was just sitting on a bench, no muss no fuss... well, the cat got out of the bag. Thus the buzz and excitement. Here are a couple of threads. (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=Search&CODE=02&SID=485d87fd14f52f31)

Jamie

[mandolirius]

I don't know too much about it but, at some point, Grisman began playing an Italian-made Giacomel. Since he has access to so many great mandolins, and this one is pretty unusual looking, it attracted attention. It's price was around 12 grand, which cuts a lot of people out of the market. A less-costly production model means that a lot of those people may be back in the game, so to speak. I suspect that's what the "commotion" is about. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the Eastman model.

[man dough nollij]

Makes you wonder what Giacomel has in it. Since it won't be really high volume, he won't be making a ton of money on Eastman clones being produced. It will in small part dilute the exclusivity of the name, and dilute a little of the mojo. I'm sure that are some at the cafe that have some thoughts on this-- PJLama?

[JEStanek]

I actually really doubt it will be a bad decision for Corrado. If the Eastman copy is a limited run, even a long limited run to a couple of years, there will be a bunch out there for people to see. Right now he has Dawg, and Tim O playing his instruments on stage that I know of. I'm sure he's getting compensated for allowing the use of his design. More exposure will ultimately mean more orders for him. When I talked to John Bernunzio about this after seeing the clone on his site, he said Corrado can only make 12ish of these a year.

I bet having more out there, will increase awareness and desirability for the "real McCoy."

Jamie

[cooper4205]

the KM-Dawgs didn't seem to have any ill effects on Mr. Monteleone.

[Nick Triesch]

Giacomel? I love cars and my favorite in the world is the the Lamborgini. But this little mandolin just seems to make too many hard right hand turns. Hurts my eyes somewhat. Kind of like the way the Alfa Romeo Milano did in the 80's with its pretty hood line then when it reached the trunk portion, the line made a 90 degree turn right up the back. I do think Eastman is way cool for these new mandolins. Nick

[Stephen Perry]

Much better in person. Works as a dynamic object. I like the tone pretty much, too, but I'm not really a mando player.

[Glassweb]

Even the mandolins made by Giacomel himself are no big deal... loud with no refinement and decent, but not superb workmanship. If he weren't hitched to the Dawg's star his career as a known builder in this country would not exist. These things are VASTLY overpriced at 12K. I'd choose a Brentrup, Kimble, BRW, Clark, Ellis etc... any day over the Giaco... but I do kinda dig the design...

[fatt-dad]

I just want to know how to pronounce "Giocomel". . . Eastman's easy.

f-d

[Glassweb]

I just want to know how to pronounce "Giacomel". . . Eastman's easy.

f-d
Jah-Ko-Mel

[Hans]

Todd,

David Grisman got the Giacomel mandolin from Corrado Giacomel (http://www.corradogiacomel.it/indexE.htm) a couple of years ago. #I first heard it when he played it with the DGQ. #It is a very nicely built, great sounding instrument. #If it replaced his Loar, Crusher, you know it's something special.

Jamie

I heard both at Flagstaff last year and there is no way that it replaced the Loar. There is no comparison. It's Italian spruce and the Loar is 85 years old.
New apples and "old" oranges. # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[steve V. johnson]

Glassweb observed, regarding Giacomel, "If he weren't hitched to the Dawg's star his career as a known builder in this country would not exist. "

I first noticed Giacomel when Tim O'Brien got one of his octave mandolins, so it's not only Grisman who's introduced Giacomel, but in terms
of volume of exposure, perhaps Grisman's impact may be greater.

The sound of the Giacomel octave is quite distinctive.

stv

[Chris Biorkman]

the KM-Dawgs didn't seem to have any ill effects on Mr. Monteleone.
But did the KM Dawgs have Monteleone on the headstock?

[foldedpath]

Makes you wonder what Giacomel has in it. Since it won't be really high volume, he won't be making a ton of money on Eastman clones being produced. It will in small part dilute the exclusivity of the name, and dilute a little of the mojo. I'm sure that are some at the cafe that have some thoughts on this-- PJLama?

The luthier probably sees this as just an additional income stream, even if it's not a major one. Every little bit helps. If the lower-end, mass market design does become popular over time, it's also a way to pass on some income to your kids, once you're retired and no longer building.

I doubt that it devalues the higher-end instruments, since that's really a separate market. I remember a few years back when the late Thomas Humphrey licensed his classical guitar design to Martin for a lower-end version (a project which didn't work out too well, unfortunately). Anyone looking for a "real" Humphrey wasn't going to be interested in the mass-produced Martin version at something like 1/5 the cost. And that one wasn't even built overseas. So there probably isn't much risk of cannibalizing your own brand, if the brand is established well enough in the player community.

[Glassweb]

I first noticed Giacomel when Tim O'Brien got one of his octave mandolins, so it's not only Grisman who's introduced Giacomel, but in terms
of volume of exposure, perhaps Grisman's impact may be greater.
Think about it... it took Gilchrist YEARS of exposure through Grisman & Carmel's efforts before he was able to charge 12 grand for an F5. People like Will, Hans, Brian, Austin, Sim, John H, Jamie etc... make AMAZING instruments and some of them are still struggling... still trying to get consistent orders at a fair price. Gil, Monteleone and Dude seem to be at a whole other price point right now and I don't begrudge their success one bit... they're established masters of mandolin lutherie that have already influenced and continue to influence the current generation of builders. So Dawg shows up at some gigs playing a bizarre looking mandolin (much as he did years ago with the Monteleone Grand Artist) gets some buzz going and all of a sudden he's selling these at a very high price point - I just don't get it. If these Eastman-Giacos are selling for a few grand that will really be, in my mind, a more "reasonable" price. Hey, more power to everyone, huh?

[steve V. johnson]

I don't recall exactly what the Giacomels sold for before the Grisman exposure, but it seems to me that, back in '04 or so after I heard the OM from O'Brien, I looked at the Giacomel website and did the Euro/USD math (in '04 when we went to Ireland in Febr, we paid $1.15 for each Euro) #the Giacomel mandolins were in the $7k - 9k range. # I do remember feeling some 'sticker shock' and thinking, 'well, I won't be able to buy any of these ...'

Somewhere in there is probably another middleman's cut (Grisman's?), shipping, insurance and currency differences...

stv

[TomTyrrell]

The production Eastman mandos won't have Giacomel in the headstock. I don't see how the Eastman versions could hurt Corrado in any way. If you have the money and you want a real one they aren't hard to get. If you don't have the money you aren't going to get a real one anyway.

If only a few people who can't afford a real one buy the Eastman version instead Corrado will make more money than he would have.

I think it is nice that more people are making mandolins that don't sound anything like a Loar-signed Gibson F5.

[Chip Booth]

Grisman has said that he has had to find all sorts of ways to make a living over the years. Endorsing and then distributing instruments has been one the ways he has done it. I am sure he really likes these mandolins but I suspect that money is also a motivating factor.

Chip

[Lee]

IMHO, something about the Jah-Ko-Mel looks off-kilter to me too. Though it's great that Eastman is running off repros.

Alfa returns to the USA market in late 2009 with three 2010 models to be sold through Maserati's existing dealer network. (What? You don't know where your local Maserati dealer is located?!)

[Chiledog]

Thanks to all for the information. I got knocked off the internet by a Squall line that swooped through here at about 0200 Saturday morning. Fried my modem and my router http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I just got back on line about 20 minutes ago.

I gots lotsa catching up to do!

Again thanks all for the information.

Peace,
Todd

[pjlama]

Even the mandolins made by Giacomel himself are no big deal... loud with no refinement and decent, but not superb workmanship. If he weren't hitched to the Dawg's star his career as a known builder in this country would not exist. These things are VASTLY overpriced at 12K. I'd choose a Brentrup, Kimble, BRW, Clark, Ellis etc... any day over the Giaco... but I do kinda dig the design...
I've owned most all of the mandolins referenced and have to respectfully disagree. I can only speak to the Giacomel I own and and it's on par with everybody else's work. They are loud but there's refinement in the tone, it's a very crisp balanced sound. BTW all mandolins are vastly overpriced (at least it often seems that way), I've owned more than a few mandolins in this price point and the Giacomel easily fits with other mandolins in the range. I'm not trying to start anything here I just want to offer another opinion, from an owner. Also, when you buy something you're paying for the design too.

[brunello97]

.... Also, when you buy something you're paying for the design too.

Very well put, PJ.

Mick

[Keith Erickson]

Would it be safe to say that there are things about the original Giacomel that the Eastman Giacomel would not have?

(i.e. tone, feel, chop)

I wouldn't know. I'm just asking the question. This is not to take anything away from Eastman. Are the Eastmans exact equivelants to the originals?

[pjlama]

It seems the Eastman has dots for inlay on the visual tip, and I'm sure the wood and varnish are different so they'll certainly sound different. I am curious to try one.

[Scott Tichenor]

I played Grisman's Giacomel two weeks prior to playing the one at the NAMM show. I'd have to say they were remarkably similar in sound and they nailed the rest spot on. The workmanship on the reproduction was exceptional. As with any design that moves outside of traditional scroll F-style instruments, there will always be a certain amount of grousing. I suspect Loar probably received some of that when his first mandolin designs appeared. No one raved, "wow, the perfect bluegrass instrument!", because it was made for classical music.

Remember when all the grumbling was about a certain raggedly dressed musician with goofy hair, questionable behavior and criticized by a lot of older musicians as talented but what he was playing, "that ain't bluegrass?" Sam Bush. That was the name you were thinking, right?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[JEStanek]

Well it's been a few months and I'm wondering how the Eastman/Dawg collaboration mandolins are coming along. I don't recall hearing of any making it to people's hands. Anyone with any information on where things stand with the Giacomel, Bacon, etc copies? Sean Chase?

Jamie

[Ivan Kelsall]

I think that Eastman will sell every 'Giacomel' that they make,providing that they sound at least 'good' off the shelf. When i say good,i mean as good as the standard Eastman top of the range Mandolins.
The instrument design is different enough for players who would like a more radically designed Mandolin than the norm,again provided that they sound ok to start with,then it's the usual period of opening up to develop their individual tonal qualities. I for one,would love to be able to lay my hands on one out of sheer curiosity. I like the Giacomel design as i like Hans Brentrups 'different' designs quite literally for the different take on the basic F-5 design. I personally hope that the collaboration between Giacomel & Eastman bears sweet sounding fruit,after all,who wants any maker to fail,certainly not me,
Saska :mandosmiley:

[SChase@EastmanStrings]

We have a few of each model in stock and we are just waiting on the final paperwork to be drawn up. An official press release will follow.

They sound, look, and feel amazing!

Last week, I took one of each model to a local world-famous mando dealer and everyone was very impressed and eager to get their hands on their own.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I have been extremely impressed with Eastmans top models and I have been absolutely salivating to get my hands on a Giacomel ever since I got Tim O'Brien's Irish Bouzouki and Mandolin DVD last year. Speaking of which, is there an Eastman/Giacomel OM/Bouzouki?

[Andrew DeMarco]

Pics? Any other info concerning price and specs? I am stoked for this collaboration.

[SChase@EastmanStrings]

Sorry, no teasers. The press release will hit soon.

[steve V. johnson]

... is there an Eastman/Giacomel OM/Bouzouki?

Oooh. Oooooh! Oooh!!! Oh, yeah, I sure hope so. Woo.

That would be wonderful. Eastman/Giacomel OM. Yes, yes, yes, please?

stv

[JEStanek]

You boys might have to wait for the Eastman - O'Brien collaboration for that one. ;)

Jamie

[Michael Cameron]

I WANT ONE ! (Eastman/Giacomel/Grismanesque mando)

Honestly,I never used to think much about the whole China/Eastman thing(my personal prejudice and ignorance). Shame on me.

Then I played a few of their instruments(very favorably impressed). I don't have an Eastman mando;but,
I do have an Eastman AR 605 archtop guitar. It re-sparked my guitar playing,with which I thought I was finished... What a fine instrument! Those guys know about carving instruments. They've had a LOT of practice.

I think it's cool that the players(artists) and makers(luthiers) are intermingling. Like the Don MacRostie/Red Diamond,"Crusher" and "Rieschmann"(sp?) mandolin.
Nugget/Collings/Tim O'Brien.

I been outta the loop for a while. Looks like lots of good stuff happening!

M