Peterson AutoStrobe ?

[Michael Cameron]

Are these really the most accurate tuners?
I have used one(490) to set intonation on mandolins;
they seem to be as accurate as anything.

Just wondering if there is anything out there even more precise?

IIRC,Claire Lynch used to use an old "Conn" strobe tuner
on stage;so even though it's big(bread-box) it is possible to
use something similar for gigs.

c

[Treblemaker]

Don't know about the new digital models but the old Conn mechanical, analog units that look a bit like and oscilloscope are very accurate.

Pete Wernick (along with Hot Rize) has always used a Conn and tours with it.

Roger Waters has used them for years on his tours and actually has a number of them arrayed on stage... Probably 5 - one for each string of a guitar (clearly there are 2 E's on a guitar - though RW plays bass, mostly.)

David Gilmour (to me, perhaps the most lyrical and expressive rock guitarist on record) has two rack mount Peterson Strobe tuners in his rig...

These old analog devices need to be manually switched to different notes when tuning a guitar, they don't auto-sense what note you play.

I regrettably traded mine for a rack tuner which crapped out on me - much to my regret....

Those clip on Intelli tuners lie (IMHO).

-Treblemaker

The image below is Gilmour's Tour Rack with 2 Peterson Tuners...
"Welcome to the Machine."

[Treblemaker]

More cool Strobe stuff:
http://www.petersontuners.com/forum/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=3807&TOPIC_ID=537&FORUM_ID=2

Treblemaker
www,WorldWideTed.com

[foldedpath]

I don't know about "most accurate," but the Autostrobe series is certainly accurate enough for checking and setting intonation. With this level of gear, it's really as much about the ergonomics of the display, as it is the internal accuracy in the circuit. You can't make fine adjustments if the display isn't capable of showing fine distinctions in tone frequency. That's why mechanical wheel-type strobes (and their later digital equivalents) have always been popular for pro-level adjustments. They're easy to read, as well as being very accurate internally.

Cheap compact digital tuners are limited more by their displays than their internal accuracy. There's only so much you can show with a LED ladder display.

I use a Peterson StroboFlip tuner, when I can get away with something that large (for informal jams, I use a small clip-on tuner). I've wanted one of the larger Autostrobe series for setting intonation, but I can't justify the price, since I don't do repairs and setups for a living. The less expensive StroboFlip is accurate enough for checking bridge position, etc. on my personal instruments.

[Michael Cameron]

Thanks for the replyTreblemaker and foldenpath.

Ran into this while googleing "conn"

http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/1998-May/032167.html

http://www.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/1998-May/032124.html

An interesting 6 year old discussion:

http://www.audioforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3343.html

LOTS more to be found. The guys that tune pianos are waaay out there! In a good way.

c

[pager]

I am a registered technition with the Piano Technicians Guild. For techs that use tuners, the Pertesons are highly respected. If techs in the field use them to tune a Steinway grand, I feel they are up to task to tune a mandolin and set intonation.

[steve V. johnson]

Our local guitar shops always had Peterson strobe tuners in place, so I got used to the displays and operation of them for setups and intonation. Many of the recording studios where I've worked had one (or more), and many of the piano tuners I've known carried them as well.

More recently, a recording client of mine used various pianos, harps, strings and reed instruments and she specified a Peterson strobe tuner for her project, so I went shopping and found that the models were changing rapidly, and I chose a VS-II model. It served well for both acoustic and electronic instruments. (Many old analog synths and hardware midi synths include slightly innaccurate tuning as a 'feature'... ;-) )

I recently sold the VS-II happily, both for the buyer and myself. I regard them as the 'state-of-the-industry' in tuners. The newer "virtual" ones are fine, especially since I've had experience with the older ones. I don't really prefer the pedal models, and it's amazing that Peterson keeps bringing out more models.

I really regard them as ... uh ... 'shop' instruments. I don't think I'd like to use one on stage or informally. Perhaps they'll miniaturize more and create something that's as small as the little clip-on ones and more usably accurate.

stv

[Lee]

Hi Pager,
I'm also on board with the PTG. I set up the temperament aurally from D3 to E4, check it by using a Peterson VirtualStrobe, then check it again aurally. I had a 490ST but it's much to big and heavy to lug around, and I'm afraid of it causing scratches. The VS-II is very lightweight, uses batteries or plugs in, and the soft plastic case can be set anywhere without a concern for scratches. And it's extremely accurate. Plus it has the pre-set historical temperaments too. I stretch the rest of the piano by ear. I think the only thing a Sanderson, CyberTuner, or Veritune will do better is the stretch. But the VS-II is only about $250.

[Stephen Lind]

i've owned and used Conn and Peterson strobe tuners for years with excellent results
i currently have a Conn, Strobo flip, and a Strobo stomp
i really like the Strobo flip with the clip for mnadolin

for tunning on the fly
i also use the little clip on Korg that looks like an eye on mandos which is quite small, convenient, and very accurate for a metered tuner

[Paul Hostetter]

I have owned a Conn for 40 years, and love it. I have had a Peterson for many years, and it's also fine. I now have a TurboTuner ST-122 (http://www.turbo-tuner.com/st122-index.htm) and prefer it to either of them.

No matter how refined the electronic tool is, there's still the issue of the human ear and its inherent limitations and strengths. A good ear is better than a good electronic tuner, even if it can't hear nearly as much as they do.

http://www.turbo-tuner.com/images/wip/DSCN1366-200w.jpg

[buckles]

I have owned a Conn for 40 years, and love it. I have had a Peterson for many years, and it's also fine. I now have a TurboTuner ST-122 (http://www.turbo-tuner.com/st122-index.htm) and prefer it to either of them.

No matter how refined the electronic tool is, there's still the issue of the human ear and its inherent limitations and strengths. A good ear is better than a good electronic tuner, even if it can't hear nearly as much as they do.

http://www.turbo-tuner.com/images/wip/DSCN1366-200w.jpg

Paul, can you say why you like the Sonic TurboTuner better than the Peterson?

[JeffD]

The image below is Gilmour's Tour Rack with 2 Peterson Tuners...
"Welcome to the Machine."

Oh my.

All that to play music. Wow. Looks as if you need an FAA license and hours of solo flying hours to operate it.

[Paul Hostetter]

Paul, can you say why you like the Sonic TurboTuner better than the Peterson?

Better was not the best word choice. The Peterson VS-II is probably the top of the heap. But I use the Sonic because it's small and portable and it's quick and more than accurate enough.

[buckles]

Better was not the best word choice....

:-)

Unfortunately the ST-122 is not available.

[Poener]

I have an old Conn and one of those big blue Petersons. I like the Peterson because it's programmable. Each instrument has its own "sweet spot" tuning and the Peterson can be programmed so that I can get each instrument's best tuning.

[Rob Gerety]

Paul, if you set that thing in front of you in a room full of musicians can you tune a mandolin or guitar acoustically without a wired connection? Does it pick up the other instruments in the room?

[Ivyguitar]

I downloaded the Peterson iStoboSoft tuner app for my i-Phone last week. The most stable accurate tuner I've ever used. I tuned everything in the house and intonated a mandolin with it. I've never been in contact with a real strobe tuner for comparison, but it was far and away better than any other tuner I have. (intelitouch, digital, needle etc)

Highly recomended.

[Gary Alter]

I have owned a Conn for 40 years, and love it. I have had a Peterson for many years, and it's also fine. I now have a TurboTuner ST-122 (http://www.turbo-tuner.com/st122-index.htm) and prefer it to either of them.

http://www.turbo-tuner.com/images/wip/DSCN1366-200w.jpg

On their site, when you go to the purchase link for The Turbo Tuner ST-122 it's listed as indefinite back order. I called them about a month ago and they said that there has been issues with the plastic housing on that model and that they are retooling to use the aluminum casing that's similar to what their ST-200 model uses. No time frame on it's availability.

[Douglas McMullin]

The ST-122 is a really nice little unit and it compares very well to much larger and far more expensive strobe tuners. It may be worth the wait for the new and improved casing. Hard to imagine what the issues is with the old casing; mine seems bomber.

[Paul Hostetter]

:-)

Unfortunately the ST-122 is not available.

Dang. Glad I got one when it was available.


Paul, if you set that thing in front of you in a room full of musicians can you tune a mandolin or guitar acoustically without a wired connection? Does it pick up the other instruments in the room?

I wouldn't know, perhaps. However that's not an appropriate use in my estimation. I use it in my shop. For sessions there are the Intellitouch clip-on things, they're plenty good enough for that. Maybe you can use your iPhone? :grin:

[Rob Gerety]

I've managed to resist iPhone mania. So far.

But its just a matter of time.

[Gary Alter]

Hard to imagine what the issues is with the old casing; mine seems bomber.

They said some had cracked.

<can you tune a mandolin or guitar acoustically without a wired connection? Does it pick up the other instruments in the room?>

You can always plug in one of the wired tuning clipon pickups.

[Jeff Rose]

Michael,
I have used the old Conn strobe tuners for years until the Petersons strobes came along. My band uses a couple of the Petersons with really good outcomes especially with the "sweetened" tunings for guitar, bass, violin etc. If you don't need all of the extras and happen to have an Iphone, the Peterson app is about $9.99 and the display is even better than on the regular strobe tuners. The mic in the Iphone picks it up great and you can stand a few feet away to tune. None of the Petersons like much ambient noise. The guitar techs that I know use Conns or Petersons. If you are after precise, I don't think you would be disappointed. cheers,
Jeff

[Rick Albertson]

[QUOTE=Gary Alter;768691]They said some had cracked.


Just spoke to Roger at Turbo Tuner. They have never had any problems with cracks in the tuner's polycarbonate cases. The production delay is due to the aluminum models for the cases having worn out. News molds are just about completed. New models will have aluminum cases.

Rick

[Gary Alter]

[QUOTE=Gary Alter;768691]They said some had cracked.


Just spoke to Roger at Turbo Tuner. They have never had any problems with cracks in the tuner's polycarbonate cases. The production delay is due to the aluminum models for the cases having worn out. News molds are just about completed. New models will have aluminum cases.

Rick

That's good to hear. I don't remember who I spoke to when I called but whoever it was did tell me that the previous plastic housings had issues with cracks and they were switching to aluminum and the new version wouldn't be available till the molds were done. I guess there was a miscommunication.

[buckles]

Just tried a Peterson StroboFlip at Guitar Center. I found it difficult to use, even using the tuning clip. Are the StroboFlip and the V-Sam about equal in their ease of use?

[John Bertotti]

I don't know about those two but I do know I use my 590 autostrobe all the time. I had to get the hang of the way to read the wheel but now I can tune in no time flat.

[buckles]

I think the 590 is a true strobe tuner as opposed to a "virtual" one. The displays on the old mechanical strobes I used in the 70s and 80s were pretty stable, but this StroboFlip seemed a lot more difficult than my recollection of those. Of course, in the 70s I was tuning an electric guitar, not a mandolin.

[John Bertotti]

Oh yep yu are right it is a true dial spinning, not a digital display. Is the strobo flip like the strobo stomp display?

[buckles]

Howdy John.... I didn't check out the strobo stomp, since I was tuning an acoustic instrument.

On another tuning note, I talked to a fella at Sonic Research, makers of the ST-122 Strobo-Tuner and got this info: they expect to be delivering this model again in late March or early April. It will have an aluminum case rather than polycarbonate, which was already mentioned here. They will NOT necessarily be selling it at the current price point of $129.99. But if you get on their mailing list to be notified when the new units are available, you will be eligible for "a special deal," which will not necessarily be the current price point.

My question about the ST-122 is this: it has only two preprogrammed temperaments (where as the Peterson tuners have a bunch of them already programmed). So, why not take the pitch offsets from the Peterson manual and program them into the user temperament presets of the ST-122?

[foldedpath]

Oh yep yu are right it is a true dial spinning, not a digital display. Is the strobo flip like the strobo stomp display?

Yes, they're the same. I think it takes a while for most people to get used to the display, and some folks never get comfortable with it. I think one problem people run into is not damping the other strings well enough. The Peterson tuners are very sensitive to the overtone series, and they show it (in groups) as part of the display "wheel". The display can be jittery if it's reading harmonics from other strings. With my StroboFlip, I pick the tuned string with one finger, while using my thumb and other fingers to damp the other strings so they can't go into sympathetic ringing. This helps with any tuner, but it's especially important for the Peterson tuners in stabilizing the display while you're tuning.

My Significant Other is a fiddler, and she could just never get the hang of using my StroboFlip, or my original "blue brick" Peterson VS tuner. The display was just too confusing. She got the Sonic Research ST-122 and is very happy with it. I'm more used to the Peterson display because I've been using them for years now. I can tune as fast on a Peterson as she can with the ST-122. They're both good strobe tuners. It's just a question of which display paradigm works better for you.

There are a few other differences worth mentioning. The Sonic Research tuner is a little faster to switch between 12TET and sweetened tunings. It's sized better for fitting in instrument case compartments, and it's lighter in weight (although that may change with the new aluminum case model). The Peterson protects the display and buttons better with its clam shell case design, so it's better for casually throwing into a gig bag. With the ST-122 you have to be a little more careful, or use a carrying case or bag. The mic sensitivity is about the same on both, and both will benefit from using a clip-on piezo transducer in a noisy environment.

[buckles]

One thing I noticed about the StroboFlip.... I had a much easier time getting the right most part of the display to stabilize, i.e., the harmonics. The fundamental, on the left, I never did get that to stop moving. I was damping other strings as best I could.

[John Bertotti]

I have to let my 590 settle down between strings but other wise it is cake to tune with. Damp the otehr strings pluck one at a time. Oddly I use a pick and pick firmly but lightly and I pick a few times before I let the display lead me. Doesn't take but a minute to get through all my strings usually. I have tried sweetend tunings on guitar but didn't lie them so that function of the new or different models nefer appealed to me. One thing is the whole display will not stop moving on mine one row of bars will be the indicator and I can get it to stbilize but if you try to get the whole display to move you will be at it for a long time, I think that is a common mistake for people new to strobo displays. I do use the clip on the head stock. I have the suction cup pickup for it but have not needed it or even tried it. Someone should post a you tube clip of tuneing a mando with one of these.

[david blair]

Just the other day I was saying that when the i-phone has a guitar tuner I'll buy one!
I have a Peterson 590-ST, stretch tuning for equal temperament. It also works as a tone generator and a metronome. Expensive for sure but I enjoy using the tuner and have no regrets. Besides tuning up or set-up work I use the tuner while practicing violin or singing to check my intonation and my ear has improved. The only negative thing is that the strobe light bothers my eyes after a few minutes.
Planet Waves has a strobe tuner shaped and used like a pick, but only for guitar. It works by pointing/strobing two LED lights at the string, tuning then aligns the two lights. It doesn't hear at all and works in the dark.

[Paul Hostetter]

Just the other day I was saying that when the i-phone has a guitar tuner I'll buy one!

Get the Peterson app. I watched Dennis Cahill pulling out his iPhone onstage a few times the other night to check his tuning. Plopped it on his knee while Martin Hayes gabbed as he does so well.

[buckles]

Ditto on the Peterson app. Nice stable display plus it tells you how many cents sharp or flat your string is.

On the same iPhone that I tried with the Peterson app, there was another tuning app called ClearTune that also seemed to work. This app used the deflecting needle type of display.