The mistery of Flatiron

[sanpix]

Hi Gents this is my first post (and its not going to set the forum on fire). Though I have been gleaming words of wisdom from the cafe for some time. I am looking at a style F-Festival Number 090512008 mandolin . On the oval sticker viewed through the f hole the above is printed, under that it states, Gibson Original Acoustic Instruments. To the Left hand side it says The Flatiron. Can any one tell me, the year of manufacture and the location made. I figure from what I have read its Nashville. Also what would you imagine this instrument was worth, it in really nice condition and comes in a hard case. Any info would be good. Thank you for your time gentlemen. Sanpix

[AlanN]

I had Flatiron Artist #10850106. That one was completed in October, 1985, #106. So...yours maybe September, 2005?

[sanpix]

OK that would make sense, do you know when they stopped producing them, and where they all US made ?

[mandopete]

Quite a bit of information regarding Flatiron mandolins can be derived elsewhere here on the Cafe, but long story short is that the company was puchased by Gibson. Gibson eventually closed down the operation in Montana and what remainded become Weber (I think).

[almeriastrings]

Also... be aware that a "Flatiron Festival-F2" that is made in China also exists.

http://www.epiphonewiki.com/index.php?title=Flatiron_Festival_F-2

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/folk-traditional-instruments/flatiron-festival-f-style-mandolin/514371000327000

This is a very different animal from the old Montana and Nashville Flatirons.....

[sanpix]

Thanks it would seem production may have moved to china by 2005?

[sanpix]

would the F2 still have the Gibson original acoustic instrument sticker in it, its a bit of a mine field...

[Willie Poole]

I don`t know the way to correctly read Flatiron serial numbers but I bought a new Festival model in 2000 and the serial number starts with 0009 so I figured that the first two digits were the year it was made....It for sure wasn`t made in `09 using the third and fourth numbers as the year made...When Gibson moved Flatiron to Nashville they must have started using the same serial number ID`s that they were using on their own mandolins...

As far as value goes I would say between $1800 and $2200 would be a going price...

[Meadowview]

would the F2 still have the Gibson original acoustic instrument sticker in it, its a bit of a mine field...

The first ones that came from China had a label that said "Gibson origional acoustic instrument", no mention of China. I think that perhaps they had a small label on the back of the headstock that said "made in Chinia.

[Meadowview]

I just found two picture of the label in a Flatiron from Chinia.

[sanpix]

That's interesting the label the label in this one looks nothing like that.
I will post pics as soon as I get home. No mention of F2.

[allenhopkins]

Quite a bit of information regarding Flatiron mandolins can be derived elsewhere here on the Cafe, but long story short is that the company was puchased by Gibson. Gibson eventually closed down the operation in Montana and what remainded become Weber (I think).

Pretty close; Flatiron was started in Bozeman MT, first producing "pancake" style mandolins based on the old Gibson Army-Navy and Alrite models. Flatiron moved on to making carved-top instruments, both A- and F-style. Gibson bought the company in 1987, and built Flatiron and Gibson mandolins in Bozeman; they also started to have acoustic guitars built in MT as well. In 1996 Gibson relocated Flatiron to Nashville, and Flatiron mandolins were built in the same facility as Gibsons, though with some differences in construction. Bruce Weber and other Flatiron employees in MT chose to stay there and start Sound To Earth, which produces the Weber brand of mandolins. "Gibson Montana" is still building acoustic guitars, but Gibson discontinued building Flatiron-brand mandolins in Nashville sometime in the early- to mid-2000's. Soon thereafter they started importing mandolins branded "Flatiron" from China; they popped up in Cafe threads around 2007. The first Asian-made Flatirons, which were F-style instruments with either carved or pressed tops, apparently did not have "Made In China" on their interior labels, but just listed "Gibson Original Acoustic Instruments."

[sanpix]

OK I'm beginning to get a sneaking feeling I'm in the far east on this one not the deep south. Here is the label and a view of the instrument in question.90983

[sanpix]

90984

[Mike Snyder]

Yup, it's from the East, man.

[fatt-dad]

the serial number that you are showing bears no resemblance to any Flatiron or Gibson serial number. Flatiron originally had the last two digits of the year to start the serial number, then under Gibson (after they moved to Nashville) they went to some "backwards" method where the year is shown by the first and last digits of the s/n. So, 8xxxxxxxxx9 would be some mandolin made in 98, just like 0xxxxxxxxxxx0 would be some mandolin made in 2000. (1xxxxxxxxxx0 would be 2001.)

You have a made in China "Flatiron"

f-d

[AlanN]

I had Flatiron Artist #10850106. That one was completed in October, 1985, #106. So...yours maybe September, 2005?

Got my tang toungled up. My F-5 Artist was serial no.: 85100106. Heck, it's been a while...

[Gregory Tidwell]

That's Chinese. I have one of those too, but my SN Is DW08030020. Not sure why mine has the letters.

[resophil]

http://assets.amuniversal.com/d65ca550cddc012fe1d2001dd8b71c47

[Axeman]

I think I'll keep my '98 until it's completely "distressed".
I'm a little irritated with Gibson for what they did to the Flatiron brand. At least we have Webers.

[MikeEdgerton]

A little information on Flatiron serials from Charlie Derrington can be found here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?192-Gibson-Flatiron-F-Serial).

[Fstpicker]

I have a friend of mine who received a Flatiron F-2 in payment for his attorney fees. He was pretty tickled about receiving this mandolin. At first I was excited for him, as I thought (wrongly) that it was indeed made in Nashville.

After borrowing it from him for the weekend, I did some online investigation and discovered that it was the Asian-made one and not the Nashville one. The value went from around 2K+ back down to around $700-800. And yes, the inside paper label was rather deceptive in saying that it was Gibson made, but no mention of whether it was USA or China. Pretty clever for them. The serial number was the key to determining the country of origin, compared with the serial numbers of the USA-made ones, and the fact that the paper label will say if it is indeed USA-made specifically, and not just leave it for guessing.

I carefully informed him of this, and he didn't seem to be too bothered by it as he felt he still got a good mandolin regardless. It did sound pretty good and the quality seemed to be decent, but I would take the sound of my Loar LM-520VS over it any day, which even my wife confirmed the difference in tone was noticeable to her.

Your mileage may vary, however...

Jeff

[Gregory Tidwell]

I put a new nut and a new bridge on it along with some J74s, and my import Flatiron F-Festival sounds pretty good. Doesn't sound fantastic, and I'd rather play my Breedlove A, but it's good enough.

BTW, $700 to $800 is the list price, and I'm pretty sure you can get one for just under $300 new. I bought mine off of CL and paid about $150. If it were any more I would not have as high an opinion of it.

[almeriastrings]

I believe there have been a few changes in production of these over time. I bumped into one last year, a recent one, and it was not bad at all. Certainly comparable to other sub-$1K F style mandolins. Not great. Not outstanding, but not garbage either. The one I saw was all-solid wood, appeared carved top, not pressed, and put together pretty cleanly. Finish was not too thick. It was kind of in the MK/Morgan Monroe territory, I'd say... nowhere near a Kentucky KM-1000, but then, much cheaper too. Probably OK if you are looking for a decent beginner instrument, and can get it at a good price. Absolutely no comparison with the 'real' Flatirons, though.....

[sanpix]

Hi Gents, thanks to you one and all. The mandolin in question was offered to me but now with total confidence I can say know thanks.
I have a Kentucky KM 250 which sounds OK, but I'm looking to move on up and would love a F style. The right one will come up. Ive only been playing for about a year but am hopelessly in love. Thanks again for your combined knowledge. James

[Willie Poole]

It would nice to know just how many mandolins are actually built in the same factories in China....Can it be that there are all that many different places that build them or are just a few factories building them for different brands? I guess that ifno could be found somewhere....

Willie

[fatt-dad]

I'd expect Gibson makes the Epiphone and Flatiron mandolins in the same shop. Not sure though. . .

f-d

[fiddler37]

What does a Flatiron mandolin with the following serial no. tell you? 96071606
Thanks, Fiddler37

[fatt-dad]

(my guess)

pre-Nashville (i.e., Montana) Flatson (i.e., Gibson-made Flatiron), July 16, 1996, opus 6.

Not to be confused with the Nashville Flatson or the New-Nashville Flatson (i.e., the discontinued the Montana-legacy Flatiron for a spell then issued a new line-up in Nashville that ultimately went to the Pac-Rim Flatson.

So, in summary:

Flatiron to 1987
Montana Flatson from 1987 to c. 1997
Nashville Flatson from 1997 to c. 2004
New-Nashville Flatson from c. 2008 to 2009
Pac-Rim Flatson from 2010 to present

This is all my guess work. All in good fun!

f-d

[2 fake knees]

Hello, can you help me identify my Flatiron Festival F-2 mandolin serial # 6605399. There is no prefix. I was told by one Gibson rep that it's from 1996 and made in Bozeman and another said it's from 2006 and from Nashville. Thanks.910479104891049

[Axeman]

Hello, can you help me identify my Flatiron Festival F-2 mandolin serial # 6605399. There is no prefix. I was told by one Gibson rep that it's from 1996 and made in Bozeman and another said it's from 2006 and from Nashville. Thanks.910479104891049
Not '96. Scalloped extension is interesting.

[fatt-dad]

that's a pac-rim flatson if you ask me. To the best of my knowledge, the designation F-2 is only on the Chinese-made Flatiron lineup. Unless it's a prototype made in Nashville that is. . . I kind of doubt it though.

f-d

[2 fake knees]

that's a pac-rim flatson if you ask me. To the best of my knowledge, the designation F-2 is only on the Chinese-made Flatiron lineup. Unless it's a prototype made in Nashville that is. . . I kind of doubt it though.

f-d

What confused me is the seven digit serial number. I would be very happy if it turned out to be a prototype made in Nashville but I think I would have better luck winning the lottery. I'll keep up researching though. Thanks for the help.

[jimmy powells]

Hi. My F5 from 1984 has serial number 84110018 and I think Steve Carlson replied on the forum some months ago that the serial number meant 84 (made in 1984) 11 (November) and the 0018 (the 18th one signed off in November).
Jimmy Powells, Northumberland, England. email james.powells@sky.com

Someone in London has been advertising a China one with a Fishman a few times. Looks Ok but too far to go and try. Obviously a completely different mandolin and can't see the point at all in retaining the Flatiron name as it just causes endless confusion rather like the Epiphone guitars when they changed from USA many years ago.

[fatt-dad]

Hi. My F5 from 1984 has serial number 84110018 and I think Steve Carlson replied on the forum some months ago that the serial number meant 84 (made in 1984) 11 (November) and the 0018 (the 18th one signed off in November).
<snip>

I think the Flatiron numbering stayed like this until they went to Nashville.

f-d