Performance

I thought this might be an interesting topic.

For me the most fun is getting to play for other people. Even though my group is probably very average in musical ability compared to the general population, we still go out and perform about every other week.

I recommend hitting the nursing/retirement home circuit this group of people are always a joy to perform for.

If you are as shy as I was when we started 10 years ago you will find hard to do it the first few times or more. Being in front of the webcam is very much like being in front of live strangers. It was scary enough for me that I could not get through this song cleanly which I normally have no problems with.

If we think about these little song of the week videos as performance we might also get good practice at performing.

I used to have to do this looking at the written song because I didn't memorize them, the paper was a crutch. Now I try to make eye contact with the audience and sing the song like I was telling them a story of my personal experience.

What about you? Do you go out and perform or would like to? Have any tips?

yes ... but rarely and not with mandolin:

Chris, I've been playing mandolin (then expanded onto other mando family instruments) for just about 4 years now. I started playing with my band about 2 years ago, and started performing shortly after that. Before that, it was probably piano recital in elementary school! We don't have as many gigs as we'd like, but we do perform several times a year. I enjoy playing in front of people. Sometimes, I look out at the crowd, sometimes I gaze inward. I do believe that videoing ourselves is very beneficial!

What went 'thwack' at the end of your song?

I don't so much care about playing FOR other people - I just love playing WITH othersAs a result we do end up playing for people, but I have just as much, or more, fun at our band practices when we're experimenting with different arrangements and harmonies, or jamming around. seems like no matter how often we rehearse, the groove is much less relaxed and not nearly as good in the performance as it was when we practiced.

"What went 'thwack' at the end of your song?"

I sure hit something wrong, it sounded awful.

Yeah I agree it is hard to play in the performance environment. Sound quality, noise level, space available, amplification, etc. are all a challenge. Just trying to here myself is often difficult not to mention the getting the nerves. The more I think about that the more a agree that just getting together and playing is more fun in many ways.

My husband and I had our first gig a few weeks ago. It was very improvisational - it turned out the PA didn't work, and we had no idea what kind of people would show up, if any... but it was a blast!! I realized then that I love performing. I just need to learn how to behave on stage, what to say and so on. I'm waaay worse at that than play the mandolin and sing...

I used to play with a group 20 years ago, but playing in sessions is definitely more fun. The worst was not playing in front of others (you get used to that), but the constant fear of some electronic equipment going south on me, not counting the tedious carrying of heavy stuff in and out of venues. Just taking the instrument and being ready to go is paradise.

I think being average and at peace with it makes performing easier - less expectations from everybody (including oneself), you just don't fall that deep. That might be the secret of being top-notch: not noticing how good you are and not wanting it either. If you balance across a steel beam at the top of a 100 storey building site, they tell you to not look down - listen to them.

Bertram

I've been playing in public off and since I was 13. My first gig was with my music teacher, finger picking our classical guitars at The Occasional Coffee House. We made $7 -- and I don't mean apiece. The set list was "House of the Rising Sun," "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right," and "Rosie's House of Sin." Might have played a few more, but those are the songs I remember.

I played in a series of country rock (for lack of a better term) bands with a revolving cast of characters from college into my 40s. We did everything from bluegrass and Western Swing to blues and Rolling Stones. We'd add a horn section and girl singers for what I liked to call our Annual Excess Show. While I didn't exactly have stage fright, I will confess to imbibing in my share (or more than my share) of Jack Daniels and other things to bolster my courage and feel in the grove. I don't know what was the matter with me. I feel pretty stupid about all of that now. And I do mean all of that, including a lot of the material.

I've been playing mostly Celtic music that past 6 or 7 years, though I'm falling hard in love with bluegrass. I've finally gotten comfortable being on stage. My strategy is to flip a brain switch and completely tune out the audience. (Unless I'm doing something that causes me to show off, which generally precedes an error or getting totally lost in the tune.) Seriously, it's like I'm playing with my friends at somebody's house and those other people aren't even there.

That works well for me, in terms of being able to pay attention to what I'm doing. For the past year, I've been trying to really listen to what other people are playing. I've had some really fun experiences when that interplay gets going of people taking turns leading and following and building on ideas (whether they're intentional, inspired by the Muses, or a lucky mistake that doesn't crash and burn). It's harder to do than it might seen. In my hack bands, everybody just turned up their amps and blasted away, for the most part. (Me being one of the worst offenders.) But I've found that even playing acoustic music, it's a little awkward suggesting to somebody that they maybe lay back this time through and give the tune air to breathe. Unison playing, which is what happens a lot in Irish music, complicates the issue. (One of the things I like about bluegrass is you're either playing rhythm to support the tune or having your turn in the spotlight.)

What I want to work on next, however, is connecting with the people I've been working so hard to ignore. I was at a festival this summer and struck for the first time (I'm kind slow!) at how perfectly relaxed people like Tim O'Brien are with the audience, whether it's 30 people on the grass at a workshop or 10,000 in front of the main stage. I think that's a function of being comfortable with what you're doing and who you are.

That's the ultimate thing, in my opinion: to be so relaxed in your skin with who you are and what you're doing that you don't have any doubts about anything. It doesn't necessarily mean being a great player. I think even somebody whose abilities are fairly plain can be really entertaining if they are sincere and comfortable and true to their material.

Mike, I echo a lot of what you stated and you struck on something that's akin to what I try to do when I'm performing and that's relax. It's very important to do so and especially have a good time.

You're right about the listening to what's going around you, too. Watching Marshall and Thile playing Fisher's Hornpipe makes me think of how tight they are. They're playing through, complimenting each other's playing, playing backup for one another, trading 8 measures, 4 measures, and finally 2 measures then at the end they both have a different ending that's stretching the envelope of the tune's key. I'd love to get to that level of playing and being in tune with another or other musicians. It takes a lot of time practicin' and playin' and listenin'. It's beautiful when it happens even if it's not at the stellar level of play that those two cats play at. It's a soaring of the spirit. Playing for dancers is the same, too, when you get that joy because the musicians and the dancers end at the same time musically and within the context of the circle, line, or square dance. It's about community and connecting. There's a lot of joy in that. Even though we here are connecting within this social group, the connecting we do when we get the chance to spend time with one another, face-to-face, is special. That's what was so great about gettin' to see MandoKatt (Paul Lucas), talk, and play a little music together and reconnect after all these years.

A former student of mine once told me, "You're a different person when you perform. It's like you've flipped a switch on." It's so important to have fun with it. A performance is a fleeting moment and one can't get to wrapped up in the mistakes though I find my inner critic listening to all my clams (mistakes) and I have trouble shutting that critic up and tend to beat myself up but then someone comes up and pays a compliment or I see someone's foot tapping and the same person or others smiling. It's gotten to be a kick watchin' the audience while I'm playing just to see their expressions. Playing at a farmer's market and watchin' the folks' reactions as they're walkin' by. I can see the enjoyment on their face as they're hearin' the fiddle tunes I'm playin'. That's worth more than all the fame, glory, and money in the world. Hearin' about how a tape or cd I've recorded and given to someone as a gift because they were sick helped them to get up and out of bed, helped them to get through lyme disease or whatever. I liken performing to having the opportunity to become something other than Joe Nobiling and a fiddle, mandolin, banjo, or guitar...to become something that's a melding of the instrument and the person...to becoming the music. That's really what it is. The music with all that my life has brought to me at that particular point in time and blended, intertwined, and woven into the music to play, emote, and interpret it which may be totally different at another playing. A recording is an opportunity to create a piece of art that is more permanent. A performance is a moment in time that isn't necessarily preserved but fleeting. That's getting pretty esoteric and out there, I'm afraid, but that's me. I know a couple of things and they are, 1. if it starts to get too much like work, I'm not going to enjoy it and it's time to get away from it for awhile or forever and 2. "What should it be if it shouldn't be fun?" - John Hartford.

Chris,

I am a beginner and the first time I played with people was in 2008 at the Steve Kaufman Acoustical Music Camp. It was so much fun playing with others but everytime it was my turn to lead a song in a jam session my hands would shake and sweat so much I could hardly play. I have been playing most Saturday mornings at a nearby music shop that has been having a bluegrass jam session (actually they play a little bit of everything) and my confidence is improving but my skills are still not up to speed to the guys there. They are a good group and slow things way down so that I can "tag" along. The only thing I wish I could find a band to play in to polish off a set of songs and play for people. I think it would be fun to play for people. And like you I see the video recordings as a way for me to get closer to that dream. What's the best way to find band members?

Be patient, keep playin', it'll come. Prod some folks of like mindset and abilities, plant the seed so to speak, or, as I've done a lot, be aware of and open to opportunities and take a giant leap and agree to play for whatever opportunity presents itself...give yourself some lead time...find some folks willin' to play even it's temporarily and go for it!

I am so very lucky, because when I decided to learn to play an instrument 4 years ago, it was because my close friends play, and already had a band. After I'd been playing for a couple of years, the band, which was a trio, lost their guitar player, and they were just in need of warm bodies. That was when Donna and I joined the band.... the band practice was already at Donna's house, as she'd been the major 'band enabler' for several years already! We get together, the four of us, usually twice a week, for practice, which is also a social event.... snacks, libations, and usually even dinnner! (I did say Donna was an enabler, right!) The four of us have been friends, some longer than others... but in excess of a decade, each friendship (and I think Scott & Jeanne have been friends for over 30 years!) Getting to get together and play and practice, so regularly, is wonderful! We do play several gigs a year, and are (slowly) working on recording a new CD (The Flatland Ramblers put out one CD several years ago, which is a great CD, if anyone is interested... Celtic & Old Time music.)

The advantage to regularly practicing with the band, is you really get to work on arrangements... which is what makes the music sound it's best.

As far as performing, I enjoy it. I was a little nervous at first, but usually when we perform, we have a small group of regular fans that come, so it's like playing to our friends.

I have a question for you, Barb. You do such a nice job of looking at the camera and smiling. Any thoughts or tips for those of us who tend to look grim or even clinically depressed while we play? I know I do, and it's the exact opposite of what I'm feeling inside. One would think being a well-rounded musician would include not looking as if one were being tortured while playing.

Mike, thanks! It doesn't come naturally, as when I first started playing, the first performance, one of my friends commented on how I looked mad! And, many photos that have been taken when we are performing, I look mad... I think a good way to practice how we LOOK when we are playing, is to first play in front of a mirror. I've found that when I am looking at my instrument, I tend to look more intense. So, I recommend practicing playing without looking at your instrument... looking outward instead of down. And, just practice smiling! You do feel kind of stupid smiling at a video camera.... maybe putting the camera someplace that when you look in that direction, you are looking at something interesting, or that makes you smile?

That's a pretty good approach, Barb, and you certainly are fortunate to have had friends who were already playing together and actually get together to practice regularly. Blessed might be a better adjective.

I am blessed, in so many ways!

Yes- my pastor totally messed me up, because one sunday just before service she told me "I can always tell when you are doing someting difficult becuase you press your lips together and jut out your jaw" -- whack! I couldn't hit a lick the whole service b/c everytime I'd start into a run I was thinking 'am i making that face' and it totally wrecked me. Finally I've decided to make a point of really smiling and connecting with the crowd on the easy parts, and then when I have to pay close attention to my picking for a few measures, they'll just have to live with my 'face'.

Is it reel or is it Memorex?

Yesterday I took song #4 on the road, i.e., to a monthly Bluegrass Jam. Yes, folks, I biffed it in the middle of the tune. I could not click the Stop button; there was no Take 2. The others were cool enough to keep playing and looking expectedly as I try to regain my place... through an entire verse.

So here's a question... but first an admission. I took something like 17 takes and chose from the best three flawless ones. What do others do? AND might more people join in the fun if we could only post our first take (letting the reluctant folks see behind the curtain? ;-)

As for me, I need to work way more on these handful of tunes I DO know so that I can confidently call them... again (yes, the same happened on Old Joe Clark) next month! I need, as well, to think carefully about what it means to "know" a song... Playing it flawlessly in one take? Being able to stay in beat over the mis-steps?

Playing it flawlessly in one take is the ideal and goal to shoot for. Ah, but it's an elusive goal and we're often our worst critics as it is really rare to get that flawless one take.

According to Malcom Gladwell, author of Outliers, it takes 10,000 hours of practice
to acquire mastery of anything. I believe that holds true of mastering the mandolin but not necessarily mastering a tune. One week is barely enough time to master a tune, at least in my book, unless I've got every waking minute to work on it. (Like that's gonna happen!)

Music performance being a fleeting moment, almost requires, maybe even mandates, that a musician be able to quickly adjust, adapt, and overcome to those times when a missed note, or other screwup, occurs. Not always easy to do. I still have moments where because I'm not totally solid with a tune that I screw it up and can't back in the groove. Mostly, those are new tunes, and lately, it seems to be on the endings. Just don't the endings solid enough. Usually I end up going out on a limb and try to do something I've never done before, make a mistake, laugh about it and, while laughing, keep going as best I can. Gratefully, those playing with me are laughing once I start and, unless we're into total delirium - which does happen, we keep right on keepin' on! We all know it's a challenge and we've all done it and that's the good part - acceptance of everyone's foibles, faults, and shortcomings!

One can always take on the philosophy that if you make the same mistake in the same place twice, it becomes a variation!

So, hang in there, as you've come a long way already and you'll achieve your goal. The only problem is we keep changing our goal as we get further along. At least I do. Gotta push that envelope!

This is providing a lot of grist for my mill. I wonder if looking mad when we concentrate has something to do with the fact that when we're in flow and really the moment we just tended to be more relaxed and ... happy? And, conversely, tense and angry when we're trying too hard (probably hurting the performance in the effort).

I'm going to try the Smiling Barb method once I get ready to post Forked Deer. We'll see if Smiling Mike looks and better than Mad Mike.

Daijoki, sometimes I get my posts in one take, but sometimes I do them a lot more than 17 till I get a good one. I just let the camera roll. I think being able to do that is a plus, not a minus. If you were making a CD, you'd do your part until you were happy with it. (Or sick of it -- G.)

I've stopped trying to play these flawlessly. This isn't Bach, where the notes have got to be letter perfect. None of the versions of these tunes is the same anyway. So, just a suggestion, but don't worry about whether you get all the notes in or add something extra.

Staying in beat is a bigger issue. It takes time to keep rolling no matter what. Try using a metronome and an insanely SLOW tempo, then gradually bump the speed up. Honestly, there's nothing that makes it easier to learn hard tunes or parts than to play them however slow it takes and then speed them up. It's a waste of effort to play fast but almost always botch that trick 9th measure. The even bigger issue is always knowing where you are in the chord progression. That's one of the things I'm working on.

Well, I don't play bluegrass, and rarely go to jams (but I have attended a few "irish jams") so I'm not sure how it works in that situation. I think if you look at the videos, you'll see that there are VERY few flawless ones.

The more you play a tune, the more you 'know' it. To me, 'knowing' a tune completely, is when your fingers can play the tune, without your brain being involved at all! So, practicing while you are watching a TV show, trying to follow a conversation, etc., is good practice for that. I believe that being able to stay in beat is most important when playing with others. For me, what works best, if we are playing as a group (I am in a band), and I get lost, or major flub it... is to quit playing, until I can get BACK into the tune in the right place. A second or two of no notes, is far less distracting that a few seconds of wrong notes at the wrong places! I don't know if this is what everyone else does, but it works for me!

Daijoki - I reckon it should remain up to folks themselves whether or not they choose to post their first take or their fourhundreth take. Like Barbara has said before, this is a social group, no need for setting rules for how you choose to participate. I suspect some folks don't post because, like myself originally, they don't have a webcam yet, or others are just plain shy. There's still alot to be gained from folk just reading posts and every so often a new brave soul turns on the webcam and joins the fun.

For myself, I think a key part is knowing the chords, and understanding how the parts of the melody I'm playing relate to them. It's a lot easier to learn the chords than the fingering for a particular version of the melody.

If I can really understand why I'm playing what I'm playing over a certain section, then I'm much less likely to make a mistake, and it's easier for me to recover from it if I do. Thinking like that is also what makes it possible to improvise.

Good points, all. And by the way I apologize; I tend to speak hypothetically. I understand this group is a social one and (yet) tend to throw ideas out as food for thought, not as thoughts on how to move forward.

I think I need to work on learning to play to a point where I'm thinking less and playing more (can have a momentary conversation without skipping a beat)... and recommending those tunes as ones I want to play in a group situation. I think I also need to learn the chords so that I can switch to "Chord Mode" for the rest of the part (A/B) when I choke... rather than sitting there frantically trying to regain my place. It's hard to catch a moving bus... better to catch it at its next stop.

When I used to play handbells, I called those 'catch up places' - those places in the tune where, if I got totally off, I could jump back in and get on again - usually for me it's the turnaround or the beginning of the next section - if I get totally messed up that's where I can get back with it.

Kat, now THERE is something I had never considered. Forked Deer with handbells. Could you give it a shot? Please?

You seem to have the right attitude and desire, Daijoki. That'll get you far. Personally speaking, I don't feel you need to apologize for your tendency to speak hypothetically. It is part of us being social, sociable, respectful, wanting and willing to lend any expertise, insights, or comments any of us might have.

Reading the other posts a thought came to mind from my experience and that is don't get a band together where you're the only one playing melody as that will tend to stick you in that mode and then you never play backup or learn the chord progression. As OS stated knowing the chord progression is what makes it possible to improvise.

Ears, the deal with handbells is that you only can play two (or sometimes four, if you're really good) at a time, and each bell only plays one note, so to play any kind of melody at all, you need about 13 people all working together and playing their own note (s) in the right sequence at the right time. My years in a bell choir were the most challenging and also the most exhilirating I ever had muscially - you had to be totally in the moment and not let your attention wander even for a second or you would be lost and take the whole choir down with you.

I sat in on a handbell choir once and it was quite a kick and a trick!!!

Since my "disastrous" performance Saturday I've come up with some ways to practice based on tips here.

While playing with a metronome is great, I've also been practicing to a tempo-appropriate recorded version. When I mess up, it forces me to catch up, not re-play (as I might do if just messing around).

I've also tried to alternate between chords and melody at each part:

A- Melody
A- Chords
B- Melody
B- Chords

I'll work up to jumping from chords to melody within a part as I get stronger.

To me this seems like yoga for mando players... strength AND flexibility training.

I would say the main thing is not necessarily to physically switch between playing chords and melody, although that probably helps, but while you are playing the melody to be thinking what chord you are playing over at the time.

Got ya. Thanks for adding that. I was still thinking either/or.

P.S. I did some practice with Soldier's Joy, i.e., forcing myself to be conscious of what chord I'm playing over when playing toe melody line. I sometimes switched to that chord for a moment so that I could hear it/make the connection. It takes some mental discipline at first, but comes naturally once you get used to it. Thanks again.