How do you learn a song?

  1. Boomslang
    Boomslang
    Please, pull-up a sandbag and share...what is the consensus on the best way to "really" learn, and play from ""memory"" a new song. Up till now, 15 months and eleven perfectly played tunes for me is to drop everything (insofar as playing other songs I have down), and dedicate all my practice time to that one new tune. I average 3 to 5 days to get it perfectly smooth and memorized at 106 BPM, and go from there.
    I've found after the reprieve, going back to the other songs in my bag are a tad rough for mayby a day, then everything seems to fall right back in place, uptempo.
    Can't figure why Temperance Reel has taken 9 days to pass my quality control, when so many others are seemoingly more difficult.
    Hey Barbara Shultz- your well metered, relaxed (and prolific) playing manner inspires me.
  2. Manfred Hacker
    Manfred Hacker
    I am sure this is not the consensus: I don't memorize tunes intentionally. When a tune (song) of the week is announced, I try to get the notation for it and sight read it slowly and identify the difficult passages. I play it slowly with a metronome, cleanly, and then crank it up in 3-5 bpm intervals.
    The tunes I really like I play often and can also play by heart, However, even if I can play a tune by heart, I always feel safer with the notes in front of me.
    A nice melody makes it so much easier for me to memorize a tune. I have lots of problems with some tunes that seem to go up and down the scales aimlessly without a discernable melody.
    Posting in this group has helped me immensely to learn tunes really well and play them at reasonable tempos. This has greatly boosted my repertoire
  3. Werner Jaekel
    Werner Jaekel
    something like 6500 tunes on the computer. No way of memorizing them all, and many resemble each other and differ only slightly. Many crop up again and again with different titles. Of them I keep approy 2000 in folders and with 200 I go over them once a week each, the new ones more often. These are the favourites, which constantly build up, daily, thanks to mandocafe. I do it like Manfred Hacker, without the scores infront of me I would be lost, except for maybe 20. He is right. If a melody pleases me in some way it is going down like ice cream and stays. A new tune needs 3 or 4 rounds. I set tabledit to 20% speed increase, starting with 80 bpm to 80 % in the beginning, the slower ones to 100 %. The dicey parts are marked and trained separately over and over again. Some, like McGanns' Shetland Jumper or Sam Bush's Grey Eagle remain a ongoing challenge. ( but I will and must manage with them, grrrrr!!!! )

    I always wondered how people manage playing publicly. How many tunes do they memorize, do they practise them before each session, or do they play ad- lib ? How big is their complete repertoire , and the one for sessions , or for a single session ?

    Manfred Hacker
    ".... this group has helped me immensely to learn tunes really well and play them at reasonable tempos. This has greatly boosted my repertoire "

    exactly.
  4. neil argonaut
    neil argonaut
    To learn a song from music/tab I play it for a while with the music, by which time it's half learned, then try and gradually play with out the music, mess up and go back to the music, etc till I don't need it. For learning from youtube/record/cd/file etc I tend to learn start to finish, I e don't go on to the second line till the first one's totally memorised, because by the time I work out what is being played and try and play it myself and get it sounding the same, half the works's done.

    As for keeping them memorised, I write down every song I learn in a list, and use this to make sure every one gets played at least once every few days.
  5. Marcelyn
    Marcelyn
    My method is a little different from the two above. Once a tune of the week is announced, or whenever I come across one I want to learn on my own, I go through all the recordings on Youtube to find one that is at a managable tempo and which also has the feel I want to aim for. I then listen to it a few times while humming along, then I pick up the mandolin. The first time through, I basically determine the key and hit any notes I can, each time after I join in more and more until I'm playing along. I find I have the tune memorized in under half an hour this way.
    When I first joined the group nearly two years ago, it was like pulling teeth to learn a song this way, and sometimes it took a day or two just to get it memorized. I am sure that doing it weekly has built some sort of neural connections that get the job doen a lot more quickly. To get it recorded though takes dozens of times of playing it through. This part is the key to getting the song stuck in my head long term. Songs I somehow record on the first day or two, I don't retain by the next week.
    Since joining, I've more than doubled the songs I can play at the drop of a hat. Most of them, I don't think I'd have come across on my own. I also try to focus on some aspect of each song like tremolo, chording, tripplets, keeping my left hand fingers where they should be, DUD DUD picking, etc. so I'm not just memorizing tune after tune, but also practicing technique.
    I'm sure everyone has a way that works best for them. I think the key is doing it often and however you do it will get easier and easier.
  6. billkilpatrick
    marcelyn - that's the way i've learned new songs, with the same result - more often than not, i've forgotten them by the next week. i'm taking fiddle lessons with the express purpose of improving my reading (ahem) skills. once a week i go to a teacher and practice scales, reading and playing - mind-numbingly boring. (the kids after me are about 7 years old - you should have seen their faces when i teetered out of the practice room.) but! - i'm so tired of loosing the tunes i worked so hard to get.
  7. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    I suspect that thinking about how I memorize songs will instantly result in my forgetting them all.
  8. Boomslang
    Boomslang
    Thanks-Some really good imput here. I've found, even as a relatively new player, I can pretty much play any tune off a tab. Just for me, the tune isn't mastered until it is hard-wired into my brain, and I can play it in the dark. As a former world qualfying archer, I tried to follow Berline's axiom: "Become the arrow", at every tournament...I know it sounds corny, but I try to bond musically with the song; kinda' become part of it for the moment for best results. Without a doubt, I can leave that song for weeks and come back and get it right without a bunch of frustrated jerking around with what has already been previously learned.
    I guess the analogy for me is mastey learning (a tune) opposed to cramming. For some as mentioned above, their musical abilities far transcend me...I've always been in awe of those that can hear a song and basically play it on the fly; Wish I had it in me.
  9. Michael Pastucha
    Michael Pastucha
    To learn a new song I usually check the abc's and any tab out there just to get a feel for the key and position. Then, like Marcelyn, I go and listen to various versions of the song (I use Rhapsody and collect the songs I like and put them in my iTunes.) Usually I'll zero in on a fiddler or, if I want a real challenge, a harpist, and try to adapt what they are playing to the mandolin. I slow down the song so I can clearly hear the notes and try to memorize what is being played by going a phrase at a time. Sometimes I'll have to write it out in tab first and then work on memorizing it. For me, a song is not "my own" until it's memorized and I play it awhile and mess around with the fingerings and phrases until it sounds right to me. I then check it by going back and playing along with whatever version I learned it from. Next record. Work out backup and record that too (yes, I record the backup after first laying down the mandolin part...)

    For long term retention of a tune, I've found a set list is handy. Break down the songs into sets of 8 or so and go thru them like you're going to play in public. One time each, no stopping to correct, until you're done. Touch up any songs afterwards and repeat the set list. Try to aim for performance quality, that is, the best you can do -- especially no stopping. Vary the set list from day to day. This method really works for me and it might for you too.
  10. Martin Whitehead
    Martin Whitehead
    I don't have much to add to what has already been mentioned; I have used all those techniques at one time or another. I look for patterns. Tunes with four measure patterns are easiest to learn and commit to memory. I have trouble keeping the name and tune paired together in my head, so I keep a notebook with all my learned tunes in it. I have about 20-30 tunes that I can play at the drop of a hat at any given moment (and remember their name). As for the rest, I need to look at the first two measures to remind myself how they go. Once I get started though, it comes back, usually in a few seconds. A lot of it is muscle memory too, which only develops after playing the tune a few dozen times. I try to work on two new tunes at a time, but that doesn't always work out. I won't spend my entire practice time on a new tune. I may practice it for 30 minutes or so and then go back and play other stuff to stay fresh. Then I'll play it one more time before I stop for the evening.

    I heard an interesting story on NPR years ago that confirmed for me that learning new music is done in your sleep. That is, any professional musician will tell you that you must sleep between practice sessions in order to really learn a new piece. I have definitely noticed that myself.
  11. Marcelyn
    Marcelyn
    Wow, a world-class archer! How cool. Sorry if I implied that I can listen to a song and then jump right in. The first 15 minutes or so sound really hideous, and I'd never attempt it in public. I have seen people who could do this though. Maybe I'll be able to in a decade or so. It did take hours when I first tried it, so it is coming along. I think learning by ear does help to internalize the patterns you start finding in these tunes. After a while, you start to anticipate the notes.
    What I find I do to remember a tune is lock on to a measure or two. It may be the first measure, but sometimes it's just a unique part of the song that stands out. I have a mental picture of the pattern of those three or four notes that becomes a hook to sort of hang the tune on. Then, if I can't remeber how it goes, I play those few notes until it comes back. I like the idea of grouping the playlist into sets and playing all the way through a set once a day. I think I'll try it out. .
  12. Martin Whitehead
    Martin Whitehead
    There's a guy in the jam I go to who has Alzheimer's, yet if you help him get started on a tune he can remember how it goes. I bet neurologists would have fun with that!
  13. Marcelyn
    Marcelyn
    I knew a harmonica player like that too, Martin. He swore he couldn't learn any new tunes, but luckily, he seemed to have hundreds stashed away already.
  14. Boomslang
    Boomslang
    All good stuff- Thanks much. Marcelyn, I became an archer at 9, and by the time I quit, in '98, at a highly competitive level it wasn't fun anymore; (travel, little money and all about winning to maintain sponsors).
    More frivoulous matters to espouse, but I'll end with Martin- Sir: You've absolutely nailed it in my humble opinion on probably one of the single most important variables of learning...sleep!
  15. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    "Become the arrow" nails it.
    It is wrong to say you play the instrument and the instrument plays the tune. Instead, the tune plays the instrument, and the tune is you.
  16. neil argonaut
    neil argonaut
    Yeah, have to agree about the sleep thing, sometimes i've really struggled with something, then 8 hours of sleep later it's no problem.
  17. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    8 hours of sleep - I envy those youngsters.
    But there's lots of useful things done in sleep, no doubt.
  18. Michael Pastucha
    Michael Pastucha
    It's funny, but if I practice something right after I wake up, it seems to stay with me all day and longer...
  19. Brent Hutto
    Brent Hutto
    I play it over and over (and over and over) until I'm pretty close to being able to play it from memory. Then if there are a couple spots where I tend to trip up I play just that part over and over until the tendency to trip up is gone. Then it's memorized.

    I have almost no tunes memorized. It just takes me too long. The only ones I can play from memory are either bog simple, short little things or else they are favorites that I play all the time and eventually remember. Perhaps not correctly. Once I don't need the music I quit looking at it and for all I know I "remember" some of those with a wrong note or phrase or with things out of order.

    Playing new stuff is more fun than memorizing so I don't sweat it. I'm always playing at home where my tune books are within arms reach anyway.
  20. Marcelyn
    Marcelyn
    There was a Radio Lab podcast done on sleep which may be the NPR show Martin was refering to. One of the segments was on why we're better at certain things after a night's sleep. They found that when we sleep our brain is washed back and forth by electrical waves. They believe these waves have the effect of cleaning away the millions of random mental connections and memories made during the day. While this seems it would make practice time less productive, scientists think that the brain has a way of prioritizing its connections according to emotional investment. They say, the things you are most intent on receive stronger connections. The analogy made for the electrical waves was like turning down the volume on all the old day's memories. So, if you practice an hour, the electrical waves will turn that down a notch, but in the end--when all the other competing connections are quieted--the practice time connections stand out much more clearly. It's interesting, and I've definitely found it true for myself. There was also a segment on how the brain actually practices skills and even makes new connections during sleep. One scientist mapped the same brain waves--down to every right and left turn--of rats running through a maze while they were awake and then while they were sleeping.

    http://www.radiolab.org/2007/may/24/
  21. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    Here's what I think is the fastest way to learn any new tune:

    Play through the song with the metronome set to as slow as you can stand. Pick out phrases that you find difficult and concentrate on them, slowing them down even more if necessary, always working with the metronome. Bring the whole tune up to speed gradually. Keep using the metronome until you can play it to your satisfaction at a good speed.

    To memorize the tune, just spend as much time looking away from the music as you can each time you play it through.

    Did I mention use a metronome? Most people find it difficult to do at first, but it gets much easier with practice, and I think it gives you a bonus because this way you can both learn a new tune and improve your musicianship at the same time.
  22. mculliton123
    mculliton123
    Martin and Marcelyn have brought up an interesting concept. Since I've started taking up the Fiddle, oh about 1 year now, I've noticed that, just as I am falling to sleep my left hand will involuntarily begin fingering a new tune I've been practicing that evening. In over 50 years of playing fretted instruments that has NEVER happened before. I didn't notice it until my wife asked me to stop fidgiting. Now what would explain that?
  23. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    Probably something you ate shortly before bed. Cheese, possibly?
  24. SweetTea
    SweetTea
    I have not posted in a long time but still enjoy reviewing the "Song of the Week" postings everyday. Currently I am in Chiryu, Japan working but wanted to share my experience with this subject that has haunted me for a long time: How to learn a song. I grew up taking music lessons in 4th grade from a piano teacher then I joined the Junior High & High School band playing trumpet and french horn. Basically I learned to play by notation and that is my comfortable method of learning to play music. Much later in life I bought a guitar and took lessons from a guy that was attempting to teach me to play by ear. Poor Fellow! He showed me a method that I still struggle to use because because my default to hurry and learn a song is by reading written music. I am really trying to follow his method now. Here was his method. While listening to a recording try to figure out the key the song was in. 2nd try to learn the chords and chord changes to the song. 3rd pick out the basic melody of the song phrase by phrase by turning the chords into scales and pick out the notes. 4th once the basic melody is developed learn the ornamental notes and play them. He also told me that he felt like it was easier to remember the tune than the notation. He claimed if I followed his method I would be able to play songs by ear one day. At first he would only give me easy songs that were in the all in the same key to try to pick out. Unfortuately I had to move after one year of lessons. I really think if I would just throw the music away and use his method I could learn to play by ear. But that is very difficult for me since I was "raised" in music by reading it. I think there is merit to learning to do both. Hopefully one day I will be able to post a song that I picked out the song by ear.
  25. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    Mike: just as I am falling to sleep my left hand will involuntarily begin fingering a new tune I've been practicing that evening - reminds me... when I was on a tour with a band in my younger years, I shared a bed with our fiddler one night and found out that he practised full-swing right-hand bowing motion, ramming his elbow into me while he was fast asleep.

    Teaching us that you'd probably better not go to sleep with a drummer...

    ...and certainly not with a metronome
  26. mculliton123
    mculliton123
    Important Safety Tip, Bertram!
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