New Jacobson "Leviathan" - Mandocello/GOM instrument design

  1. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Hello everyone. I've had a lot of interest in some kind of Guitar-Bodied Octave Mandolin for a while.

    I've decided to develop two new mandolin-family instruments. The first one, which I'm currently calling "Chimera", is for shorter scale instruments and higher tunings, accommodating scale lengths from 17" to 22" or so, depending on the application. Examples: Mandola, Octave mandolin, short scale cittern, Waldzither, "tenor lute", etc.

    The larger instrument, which I'll post images of here, accommodates scales from 21.5" to 26" or longer, and is designed to work well all the way down to a second-octave C (which is the lowest string on a cello).
    Examples: Long-scale bouzouki, Mandocello, tenor guitar, Long scale CGDAE cittern, "liuto cantabile" (24"), etc.

    It is called "Leviathan". I had numerous problems to solve in designing this, and have spent who knows how much time working towards this over the past two years.

    My primary goals were to produce a design which was:
    1. Appropriate for me to manufacture, minimizing time number of components
    2. Ergonomically improved over other Guitar-bodied mandolins out there.

    A mandocello is not a guitar, and there are differences in how most people play them.

    What I have come up with is a design which is I believe is visually striking, but most importantly, it just feels right. It is a pretty huge instrument, but in the arms it feels like a much smaller instrument, and is well balanced. If an individual prefers, it can be played the same way as a guitar-bodied OM using the upper waist, or they can use the leg cutaway.

    I've gotten a lot of valuable feedback from many members of the forum, thanks to everyone who contributed.












  2. Michael Bridges
    Michael Bridges
    Wow, Marty! That just looks amazing, and of course, completely original. The visual effect of the one F hole on that large body is striking. Can't wait to hear how it sounds/plays. How will it be tuned?
  3. bruce.b
    bruce.b
    That is beautiful, Marty. I'm excited to see how this progresses, both this one and the Chimera. I believe you said the chimera is a scaled up version of your mandolin body?
  4. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Mike, with instruments like this, there's a lot of variation in how players use them. But I intend the primary tunings to be CGDA, CGDAE, or GDAE.

    Bruce, I'm still working on the Chimera. The current idea is for it to be sort of halfway between the Nautilus and the Leviathan in appearance. You can see the shape I'm currently thinking about for it in the last picture, just above Mike's post.
    I added the body points for practical reasons, because I don't want to wrap the sides around an instrument that big all in one go. So it has to have points somewhere.
  5. Tom Haywood
    Tom Haywood
    Gorgeous!
  6. Steve-o
    Steve-o
    Marty - As usual, we can count on you to break the mold when it comes to design, and I duly tip my hat to you. That said, the Leviathan does not really grab me - I dunno, maybe I'm a sucker for symmetry. Just one guy's opinion. I'll be very interested to see how the Chimera turns out. Thanks for posting your ideas.
  7. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    I hear you, Steve. Thanks for the candid feedback. I will make some without the lower bout cutout, and have considered a two-point version, too. But I do believe that if you play sitting down most of the time, the lower bout cutaway is a clear ergonomic advantage.
  8. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Just for fun, here are a few permutations with no cutaways, just a neck cutaway, and just a leg cutaway.

    I know the leg cutaway looks strange, but once you hold it... it just feels right.





  9. Michael Bridges
    Michael Bridges
    The single-cutaway with 2 F holes.....Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! That's just downright sexy. Would be interesting to hear the difference in tone between 1 and 2 f holes.
  10. bruce.b
    bruce.b
    I think the Chimera would look fantastic with the oval hole from your mandolins as it mirrors the body shape as you currently have it.
    This new F hole style on the Leviathan is very elegant, as are the F holes on your mandolins.
    I slightly prefer the Leviathan with a single fingering cutaway, two F holes and no leg cutaway, but I also like it with the leg cutaway quite a bit too.
    As of now I'd go with the Leviathan two F hole, single cutaway, but that could change when I see the actual instruments. All of them are neat. A GDAE tenor guitar with a 21" to 21.5" scale length.
  11. Michael Bridges
    Michael Bridges
    Marty,
    You don't mention, but how is yon beastie braced? I assume it would require something different than the mando-standard x-brace or tone bars. That's a lot more wood to support. Also, would it have a fixed bridge, like a guitar, or will it float? This is new territory for me. I like your adventurous approach to design!
    Since you seem to be into mythical creatures, can we look for a "Kraken"? You know, 8 strings, 8 arms, etc.
  12. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Ah, Bruce, I am looking forward to playing with the Chimera's possibilities. That's definitely one I'll have to give a try. The peaked headstock would look good with it, too.

    Mike, you're a pretty tall guy, so you might be comfortable holding a non-leg-cutaway Leviathan. I'm going to make a video this evening to show how the ergonomics differs from a guitar of the same size.

    I've considered using tone bars and X-bracing. I'd definitely use an X or H pattern for a Leviathan with a centered oval hole. Other than that, the considerations are really not that much different than a mandolin. The arch is a little taller, so the top is helped by that. It's a wide span, which makes it less stiff at the same thickness. That would be bad for a mandolin, but it's good for a mandocello, as the normal modes of vibration need to correlate to the range in which the instrument will be played.
  13. Mike Arakelian
    Mike Arakelian
    Throwing in my $.02 here...of the three renderings above, I like the 1st one the best. I'm partial to two point instruments, and #1 does that for me. The single cut away is also nice, but if I had a choice to select, I'd choose the first. I don't care too much for the third with the leg cut away. I admire your creativity, Marty. Your instruments always have an interesting flair one way or the other.
  14. Steve-o
    Steve-o
    I'm with Mike and Bruce in picking #2 as having the best aesthetic (functionality too). This is a fun spectator sport Marty.
  15. Don Grieser
    Don Grieser
    I really want to hear how these beasts sound. Especially interested in the oval hole version, but curious about both.
  16. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Thanks for the feedback, gents.

    Don, I look forward to hearing them, too. Doesn't look like I'm coming out your way this year, but if I do, I'll let you know.
  17. Michael Weaver
    Michael Weaver
    I like both of them actually and I am having a hard time deciding which one I like more. I would definitely have to go with an oval hole for sure with a black top. My next thought was "good luck finding a case." Damn.....well, here goes some more money heading your way Marty.
  18. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Thanks for the feedback, Mike. Actually, designing them to fit in a case was one of the major criteria I kept in mind. The Leviathan fits in a Jumbo case, and the Chimera fits in a -- don't laugh -- ES-335 case. Strange, I know, but both styles offer a wide selection of excellent cases at all price points.
  19. Michael Weaver
    Michael Weaver
    That's good news. You can find a ton of options for both. Now I'm really starting to think that #23 will sure feel lonely without a big brother around!
  20. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    Something's been bugging me about these designs. Maybe this is what it is:

  21. Killian King
    Killian King
    I saw that same photo somewhere yesterday and it reminded me of Marty's design as well.
  22. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    The Kay Venetian style was definitely an influence, among others.

    Actually, I have never been a huge fan of the Kay instruments, and definitely did not set out to design an "updated Kay". However, the instruments of Gary Nava, Alan Beardsell, and Paul Lestock all have made me rethink the possibilities. I do think it helps to have a sense of historical familiarity, which the Kay design certainly is. I also tried to echo the two treble side points of an F-style to some extent.
    Before Kay, the Stromberg-Voisinet design was pretty cool, more recently Breedlove and Jean Courfleou (sp?).... on and on and on.

    What I realized in designing this was how logical it was to make that flat area along the top, resulting in the bass side point... but also how hard it is to make it work.

  23. Markkunkel
    Markkunkel
    Every time I find something from another builder and send it along to Marty (most recently http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=315563 from KZOM guitars) he'll respond as he does here with, "Yep, there's that too...here's how his work comes from this...and this...and this..." and go on to teach me (with pictures, as he does here) about how great artists study precedent. Pretty cool to see this happen, as Marty studies the successes and slips of the best and not-so-best and tries to come up with new approaches (solutions, even?) to some very old problems...

    Thanks, Marty, for sharing your creative process with us!

    MK
  24. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    Yes, don't get me wrong, I really like the old Kay design.

    "I also tried to echo the two treble side points of an F-style to some extent."

    That I think is a smart thing. That's why I never understood two-pointers - they seem to me to have the wrong two points.
  25. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Well, I guess I should clarify. The Kay body shape is cool for what it is, and as an artifact from the era in which it was designed. But it's not a timeless classic like the F-5 or a '66 Corvette.
  26. Killian King
    Killian King
    When I bought my Taylor 910 back in 1997, the Taylor brochure at the time featured a 9 series jumbo with a venetian cutaway on the cover. I loved the design and would have bought one like it, but unfortunately it was a one-off and not available. They sold a 12 string with that body style only.


    Something very appealing (sexy?) about venetian styling.
  27. Killian King
    Killian King
  28. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Hehe, good eye, I was drooling over that earlier today.
  29. dusty miller
    dusty miller
    They look cool! Be fun to try one.
  30. Mike Knapp
    Mike Knapp
    Hey Marty,

    For what its worth I dig the lower bout cut-out and the single f-hole from an aesthetic standpoint. I'm very curious what it will sound like with the one f-hole too. Keep on keepin' on.
  31. Marty Jacobson
    Marty Jacobson
    Thanks, Kris and Mike. Will do. First batch of Leviathans will include a mandocello, an octave mandolin, and a multiscale CGDAE cittern.
  32. Killian King
    Killian King
    Marty - Are you familiar with Julien Regnier? His Newzouki made me think of the Leviathon.
    http://www.julienregnier.com/newzouki.php

    Check out his youtube videos, the guy is a seriously talented player too.
Results 1 to 32 of 32