Not stopping or hesitating after you make a mistake

  1. Sue Rieter
    Sue Rieter
    This is a big challenge for me. I have an almost irresistible urge to stop and go back, then I lose the timing. Anybody have any ideas on how to conquer this?

    take it easy,
    Sue
  2. Louise NM
    Louise NM
    Sue, the best cure for this is playing with other people, especially when there are enough of them so they just keep going even if you don't. Even one person, if they are bullheaded enough, can fill this need!

    When you are learning a tune, or polishing one, there's nothing wrong with stopping to fix a problem. Once you isolate the measure that's giving you a problem, besides working on that little bit also spend some time moving into and out of the passage—the measure before and the one after. Playing with a metronome can also help.
  3. HonketyHank
    HonketyHank
    I have the same problem and I strongly suspect Louise is correct. But I don't play in jams or in any kind of group setting -- partly out of laziness and partly because I am still having fun without doing jams. If I were younger, I think I would probably seek out groups to play with. But it really only affects me now once a month when I turn on the webcam for tune of the month. I do a lot of do-overs.

    One thing I have noticed is that my mistakes are getting better. You know, when you hit an obviously wronger'n wrong note, well that is a show stopper for me. But I find that sometimes now I am making less obvious klunkers now and some of those times I can keep going. One thing I do when I am practicing for the tune of the month is to force myself to play the tune, with a metronome or if I have tabs, with the midi playback in TablEdit, all the way through even with the klunkers. That helps me play the whole tune in fewer retakes when I do turn the camera on.

    I was looking at a mandolin here in the classifieds a couple years ago listed by a very talented semi-pro player. His group has several videos on youtube so I looked them up to get an idea of what the mandolin sounded like. He played the mandolin better than I ever will and the videos are great. But I noticed something -- every now and then while he was playing a break, he and the bass player would exchange glances and kinda raise an eyebrow. I am pretty sure he messed something up or did something unexpected. But you wouldn't know it. One key to that was that he never lost the beat.
  4. Gene Lewis
    Gene Lewis
    And I will be another to suggest playing with others! I have a couple of very patient friends that I play with occasionally, one in particular that is a much better player than myself and he has been a big help for me. He continues to play and I have worked on playing through those mistakes.

    One other thing I will add is playing along with backing tracks. They definitely don't stop unless you stop them! One in particular I have used is the mandolessons website. Baron does the back and forth play along track where he plays melody and you play rhythm and then switch it up. I find that playing melody at the same time he does helps me as much, especially if it is a tune that we play a little bit different as most fiddle tunes have many variations. I learned a little different version of "Whiskey Before Breakfast" than he has on his track so playing along with that forces me to concentrate more and when I make those mistakes I need to keep time or I really am done.

    I hope that makes sense? With all that said, I have been working on this stuff for several years! Sure wish I had started 20 years ago but having lots of fun with it now!
  5. maudlin mandolin
    maudlin mandolin
    If you are playing on your own it will not matter if you stop and go back. That is how you learn.
    It is when playing with others or to a backing track that you need to keep going at all costs. The only way to learn how is by practice and the mandolin Play-along series of books provide good training for this.
  6. Sue Rieter
    Sue Rieter
    Thanks, folks, for the useful thoughts.

    Not that I'm not having alot of fun learning on my own - I am. I'd love to be able play with other people, though, and can even think of a couple that would be patient enough. But it's pretty much not in the cards until springtime, anyway. If we were able to have a big Thanksgiving with extended family this year, for instance, there are at least 4 other (better than me) musicians that might be there. Believe it or not, nobody has ever brought instruments to get-togethers before, but I would have been pushing to start a new tradition. Next year, perhaps.

    The problem isn't stopping and going back a measure, or going over a tricky phrase multiple times, though. I guess that's the first phase of practicing a tune.

    It's the "playing through" piece that's really hard. What I find myself doing (especially if I'm trying not to look at the mandolin) is missing a note, or even "tripping" over the wrong string, then "instinctively" (for want of a better word) replaying that one note vs. just carrying on. If I'm trying to play with a metronome or follow a backing track, this totally messes me up every time. I'd like to be able to resist the "redo" urge and just keep going, have a better mental discipline, in other words.

    I'm hearing that I just need to make this be a regular part of practice and be patient with myself. The second part isn't always easy.
  7. Stacey Morris
    Stacey Morris
    Good luck, Sue. I have the same kind of problem. Then again, for me that is just one of many!
  8. Sue Rieter
    Sue Rieter
    Yeah, me too. This is just the one that is front and center for me right now

    Hank, how do you "force yourself to play all the way through, even with the clunkers?" I find the mistakes seem to cascade after the first "redo" and that's all she wrote for that go-around.
  9. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Same problem here! On the rare occasion I can play with others, when I lose my place, I have trouble getting back in, especially on one of the few tunes I've memorized. I've started working on those 3 every day, hoping that will help. If I have the written music in front of me, it's easier.
  10. HonketyHank
    HonketyHank
    Sue, I learn the tunes in chunks or phrases, similar to how Baron Collins-Hill teaches in his videos. So if I am playing to a TablEdit midi track, I try to jump in at the next chunk (which usually arrives sooner than I am ready for it). I might mess that up too, but I keep trying to catch the next chunk. Playing to a metronome, I just try to get back on the tracks as soon as I can.

    I think it is important to stop and hammer away at a problematic phrase until you get it. But that is, to me, phase I of learning the tune. Putting it all together is phase II and that is where I try to not stop and repeat the phrase. It is kind of psychologically pleasing to stop, then play it right, then think "See, I can play that!". Leaving the flub uncorrected is difficult. But correcting it when you already know how to play it, just to prove to yourself that you can, is worse.

    On the other hand, since I don't play with others, I try not to obsess about it.
  11. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Sue, I believe my teacher would say you should play at a slower speed, gradually increasing as you improve. Going slow is not much fun, so maybe each time you go back to pick up a note, you should "punish" yourself by returning to a slower speed.

    I, too, struggle with this, but have improved over time.
  12. phb256
    phb256
    Bass educator Ariane Cap talks about this here: https://arisbassblog.com/performance...practice-mode/
    I think it's good advice on effective practice that applies across instruments.
  13. Sue Rieter
    Sue Rieter
    Thanks, phb256, that's a good link.

    Sherry, I kind of like your concept of "punishing yourself"

    I've been not only returning to a slower speed, but stopping to practice the tricky phrase over and over before going back to the tune. I read somewhere else, "practice makes permanent" so you don't want to lock in any bad habits or mistakes!

    I saw my brother yesterday, and it was the first time he heard me play since we got together last fall. "Hey, you're improving," he said. That was nice.
    Now that the weather is getting better (it pushed toward 70 for awhile yesterday) we were talking about getting together to play again. I'm psyched!
  14. NDO
    NDO
    I agree with practicing the tricky part over and over again. As slowly as necessary to get it right, then speed up until you can do it faster than normal, then slow down to normal. Although I haven’t gotten around to using a metronome yet

    Once I start playing a song in front of people I generally power through from start to finish. Half the folks will never notice a little mistake. It helps if you sing loudly enough that a momentary wrong chord can be corrected before anyone else hears it
  15. JeffLearman
    JeffLearman
    When I first started playing gigs (way back in say 1980), this was my biggest hurdle. I'd spent most of my musical life playing alone. Earlier I had gotten a recorder and realized my timing was terrible so I had worked on that -- but again, alone. When I finally started playing in bands, the "no stop and do-over" issue was big. Stage fright was an issue: I got nervous, which made matters worse.

    All the things mentioned above are helpful and important. Use a metronome. Backing tracks -- they don't stop for you. CHUNKS! And today we have another tool, which is really merciless: the looper. If you can figure out a way to play the mando into a mic into a looper (you can do this on your computer if you have an audio interface, though setup is fiddly), you REALLY get a lesson in "KEEP GOING".

    But for me, back in the day, the single thing that made the biggest difference was an attitude adjustment, for which I coined the phrase:

    Mean what you play, even when you didn't play what you meant!

    It's a big adjustment and takes effort to internalize, but it was a big help for me. I had to let go of my natural perfectionism (which was really misplaced, since I make so many mistakes!) I had to learn to let it be what it is and not what I was trying to force it to be. In the end, it made me a more confident musician and making far fewer mistakes. (Unless I hit the RECORD button, then ... arrgh. Oh well. Learning to play with a looper is really kicking my ass. Even though I've done a lot of home recording I never got over this issue.)

    Regarding speed: I find it's best to work through tough parts at a lot of different speeds. Slow to start with, of course. But once I get the lick mostly under my fingers, I find it's important to really push the speed, using a metronome. This is difficult but it forces my fingers to learn more efficient moves. When I reach a plateau, I back off a lot, say 20%, and practice doing it cleanly rather than fast, but it's easier now after hitting the high speed. A day later, I'll do it again, and shoot for a slightly higher target, then back off again.

    It's a bit like swinging 3 bats before stepping up to the plate. Maybe not literally, since that's more a matter of warming up muscles. But as an simile it's apt, and the feeling is very close: the actual thing is easier having just done the harder thing.

    I'm building a mando kit, and when it's done it'll be my first mando, so pretty soon I'll be a newbie!
Results 1 to 15 of 15