Now that the Blues Mandolin social group has been created, please add your suggestions on subjects to cover. It was mentioned a tune of the week as a venture, I'm not sure how this would be implemented, if someone wants to jump in and moderate that part it would be great.
Hi! I love listening the the blues, but have never learned (or attempted to learn) to play them on the mandolin! I'm looking forward to learning some. On the subject of a tune a week venture, we do already have a social group called The Song A Week Social Group, which I moderate. It has taken off, and it does take a fair amount of keeping up with it, to moderate it. The goal of the group was to incorporate as many genre of music as possible, and so far, we haven't had any blues tunes even suggested! If anyone is so inclined to video themselves doing some blues tunes, please also consider contributing them to the Song A Week Social Group! We have our "Official Tune of the Week", and we also are open for contributions of any tunes (on any instruments!) any time! I'm looking forward to participating in the growth of this blues group, and hopefully, learning something about blues playing on the mandolin!
Welcome Barbara- You can probably help with the guidelines on how to run the "Blues Song of the Week". Now I'm thinking once a month may be enough. Thoughts?
Hey everyone Thanks for starting this up, Amandalyn. That was real fast! For these things to work somebody's gotta be a go-getter/self-starter, and you didn't waste any time. I'm on two other groups. One seems to be pretty much pokin' along, the there seems a bit abstract, so I'm not too involved in either. I don't know what to expect here, nor how involved I'll get (yes I really am that antisocial ) but I have been playing the blues for decades, and had the blues for even longer, so I am surely willing to share what I've learned. I don't know how well the song a week group is working out, but I think a song a month is going to be too slow, and people's attention will wander; one a week at least sounds better. I'm not too good with tab, usually writing out song ideas with numbers assigned to notes of the scale,or if I know the key, the appropriate letters. That gets a bit sloppy-looking with the blues, with all the slurs, especially around the minor/major 3rd and the 6/7b notes. But I'm here to learn as well as impart wisdom (so to speak). Oh, and great choice for the avatar. I love R. Crumb's work!
I got the Steve James instructional DVD a few months ago but all I've managed to do is learn 12-bar blues in the key of G with a pretty basic solo...
Hi, I'm one of those pesky guitarists who suddenly discover the mandolin family and then ask lots of questions. I've been playing blues on guitar for years, but am a mando beginner. I've been playing around with the DelGrosso book Mandolin Blues, which is great. I highly recommend it.
hello,this really did start up pretty fast,great job Amandalyn...i'm looking forward to really learning a lot here...Barbara is doing a really great job with the song of the week group,i'm sure her input would be tremendous...my thinking is,make it very free form,if someone wants to post a blues tune they know?put it up here,if anyone wants to respond with their version of the same tune?have it linked to it? i'm not too confident in posting vids,but i'll give it a go,soon,sometime? sharing some video's of blues greats or knowledge,anything blues...not sure about picking a song a week though?with different genres of all sorts..i'm sure something will workout??? love the avatar..yes...thats blues...looking forward to all this..cheers
I suggest you send an invite to MandoKatt and see if he won't join this group. He will have a lot of good input from the basis of his study of Old Time Mandolin Music. Hokum Blues is one he seems to be studyin' or knows right now. Also, Mike Compton's got some blues tunes up on his Google groups page. MandoKatt and I recorded Stealin' when he paid me a visit earlier this month. I've posted it to the Song of the Week Social Group and can post it here, later on this evening. Steve James' stuff should be a wealth of information as would Jim Richter. Plus Richter's is free online I've been told. I've seen a lot of YouTube videos of him out there. Byron Berline, on the liner notes of his album, Flat Broke Fiddler, (which he plays mandolin and fiddle) says he believes the Blues is the soul of bluegrass music.
As a resource we could start a list of links to bluesmen, blues music and helpful sites that we may stumble upon along the way. 1. http://www.mandolinblues.com/ 2. http://www.amazon.com/Mandolin-Blues.../dp/B000003ORG 3. http://www.stevejames.com/ 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlGi4mpswd0 5. etc.,etc.
The Song A Week Social Group is by far the most active social group thus far on the mandolin cafe. When Scott opened up the social group function, many groups started, but most that I belong to have kind of fizzled, some never really even took off. I would guess that the 'success' of the Song A Week Social Group is that we are learning and playing and submitting, not just talking about whatever it is that the group was formed around. I wasn't suggesting that this Blues Group incorporate tunes of different genre... I was talking about the Song A Week Social Group. But, I would invite everyone here, to also join the Song A Week Social Group, and add your Blues influence there, as well!
A lot of good info to be found at Mandolin Radio, MandoKatt's fine site on Old Time Mandolin Music. Barb's got a good point, it will only help to strengthen the Tune of the Week social group but there's no guarantee that a blues tune will be the tune of the week time after time as the group is very diverse. But the openness of the group certainly doesn't discourage posting of tunes other than the Tune of the Week, as one can see by visiting the group and some of y'all here know.
Mike Compton's site as I mentioned earlier has some blues tunes in the Files folder. Need to join it, though. That's easy enough if you have a Gmail account. Taterbugmando
I would be happy to lead a blues tune a week or every other week. Actually what I think would be better would be for me to provide a lesson a week and then maybe a backing track for people to work w/. Something like that. Again, as I said in the blues forum, is that blues tunes are not the way to go w/ blues mandolin. For one, with fiddle tunes, there is a wealth of tunes out there. Those tunes are then transcribed to mandolin (easy enough job). However, there isn't a wealth of instrumental mandolin blues tunes out there. And if you do look for them, you're limited yourself to stuff recorded in the 20's and 30's, except for the later stuff by Yank and Johnny Young (and Rich, Gerry, etc.). You can transcribe solos to songs, but again, you really need the recorded material to understand the transcription. It isn't like Angeline the Baker--any version would do to understand the tune. A transcription of a break by Johnny Young from such and such an album really requires access to the original material to understand context. There is a wealth of instrumental blues guitar instrumentals--that's why I draw strength from them. Also being a blues guitarist who loves Freddie King, Hollywood Fats, Magic Sam, Robert Jr Lockwood, etc., I understand how the tunes are supposed to be played and channel that feeling into how I play them on the mandolin. Most important to blues isn't learning a bunch of instrumentals. Even learning songs isn't imperative as the form is primarily the 12 bar 3 chord format (w/ obvious exceptions). The goal is to learn how to vamp over them, as well as solo. That is more of a study of blues form, licks, patterns, etc. That's why I focus on that. Any blues songbook would work for lyrics and chords. The real challenge is how to work those up for mandolin. Once you learn the basic blues vocabulary, you can work any of that stuff up. If you all have an interest in me helping lead either a study/tune/lick of the week type thing, let me know. Jim
Maybe a good place to start would be for some people to talk specifically about what they want to learn - scales, runs, riffs, songs, certain artists' work, whatever - so those of us who have a bit more experience will be able to focus on those areas.
Jim, that would be GREAT!! I think I would get a lot out of what you recommend. Also, as evidenced by the outstanding success of the Song of the Week group, having a weekly project of some sort seems to be the way to go. Of course, there is no reason people couldn't also work on tunes together on this page, or post blues tunes on the Tune of the Week group.... together, we can certainly handle more than one thing at a time.
Hi Jim, thanks for joining and your input. If you would head up the Blues tune/lesson a week that would be great , and if it's not every week don't feel pressured. I like your idea of learning the concepts of how to play blues on mandolin, rather that just tabbed out songs. Since many of us play Bluegrass, I'm sure we'd like to add the blues element into our playing, a study of licks ala Compton, Monroe, etc. would be a good subject to cover. So please- go for it! Teri
Shawn... good point! I'd like to see all of the members of this group also join the Song A Week group. When this group gets to the point where the members are making videos of themselves for this group, it will be very simple to also post them at the Song A Week group, as well! As I said, we have a HUGE collection, so far, of "OTHER TUNES"... not the official tune of the week tunes (we are up to week 12 so far on the official tunes!) The way these group discussions are set up, the only videos that can be embedded into the groups are YouTube videos. If for whatever reason you have, you chose to upload your video to a different service, you can only link to them. We have one member on the other group that uses Vimeo, as he's just 17, and his dad won't let him use You Tube. However, it is real handy to have the actual videos embedded into the actual discussions here in the groups! I think this group has a lot of enthusiasm, which I think is just what it's going to take to make a successful group!
Jim's School of Blues tune of the week or 2? sounds cool...could be like journeybear said too,maybe now/then just a run or riff?something we can work on?noddle around,add what you want? i'm looking to learn anything i can here,on this site or this forum..or another forum...This cafe has been such a wonderful learning tool for me,and with groups as diverse as there are here,well,it's just amazing to me...Barbara's song of the week group surely stand's on it's own,i think she has started a great forum...i belong,i'm picking up a great deal there,if i were confident in my playing,and my hands were healthy for playing and wanted to post a tune,whither it's Stoney Creek,Catnip,It Hurts me too or some Willie Dixon song?i sure would put it up there?as i would post here on this forum also...but,i also want to hear what people think too,suggestions on blues music,history,scales,tuning's,up coming show's... well,i'm rambling...looking forward to the first lesson,song..cheers
Howdy All Here's what I found out about blues along the way.....I started out on guitar but the experience of just jamming over blues changes just kind of spilled over to the mandolin. I'm not that old (46) but 30 years ago there was almost NOTHING in the way of books; let alone YouTube, DVD's, online lessons. And I'm talking guitar here. We just hacked away at it till we hit something good and tried to remember it for next time And that was a good thing......I've found through all my book/DVD/video collection that NOTHING beats just hacking away at your instrument (hacking 'in time' to a metronome of course). If it were easy we'd all be skinny have six pack abs! Learning the blues on mandolin is totally different concept then learning a fiddle tune note for note. The blues is really as simple (in concept) as learning some patterns; licks and then just playing to some blues changes. As you get better all the other sources out there become fertile grounds for picking up new licks and building a vocabulary but first you have to be able to generate some stuff on your own that is NOT by route. The blues is about improvising. After that you can start to discuss ideas like what kind of things work over the IV (four) chord; what's a cool thing for the V (five) chord and you can start "collecting" licks and turnarounds. So I guess I'm saying that a "tune of week" thing really doesn't seem to fit the blues. How about a "concept of the month"? Weeks fly by too fast For example: bluesy double stops playing dimished scales leading to the IV playing the changes I IV V whole tone scale over the V Also there are some good blues backing tracks out there for purchase. Mel Bay has one called Rock and Blues Play-Along Tracks that has a great cross section of tune types that you would likely encounter when jammign with non bluegrass guitar players. oops....I just read Jim's post and I see I sort of said the same thing Perry
Jim's school of blues is the best idea since sliced bread. I'm probably like a lot of you here I can play the mandolin fairly well, not professional but OK. I can play the blues scales and can pick up by ear tunes Jim posts online (if I slow them down). But when trying to work out my own solos I tend to run out of steam after an initial promising start. For instance, I'm working on a Sonny Terry and Brownie Mcgree tune at the moment (Woke up this morning got coffee in my bed, picked up the cup and threw it at her head, 'cos I was evil, evil hearted me.........). The first chorus (solo) is OK (I have nicked a couple of ideas from Jim' playing) but when I go into a second chorus, I run out of steam. So it's not a lack of skill, in my case, but a lack of creative pointers. Another tune, Bring it back home to me (If you ever change you mind, about leaving, leaving me behind....), though not strictly a blues tune, I suppose, raises the same sort of problem. First solo is OK on the lower end of the fretboard with a lot of double stops then I try to go up higher for the second chorus but run out of inspiration. I'm writing this as possible indications to Jim of whom his target audience might be. I would also like more ideas about how to work with double stops or part chords as guides to moving forward with a solo. I find Jim's playing particularly effective in this regards. In fact I can't praise his playing enough.
I would suggest that there be some concept lessons that start with assuming the 'student' has NO idea of what you are talking about! I don't play bluegrass, I don't play guitar, my mandolin experience is almost completely playing melody of Celtic, Old-Time & fiddle tunes. I do read music, I have some basic music theory knowledge (I know scales, and understand what a I, V, etc are, but don't use that knowledge in what I do on the mandolin so far). On topics, I think it's nice to have an 'introduction' discussion, so the members can introduce themselves (not necessary to give their full name, if they don't want to,) but since so many people use a 'catchy' name for their user name, and don't sign off with any kind of first name... it's nice to at least be able to associate a real name with a user name. Plus, it's nice to read a little history on the members... makes the group feel more 'social', if you know what I mean! I also think it's nice to sign off your discussions with a real first name, if your user name doesn't reflect it... but that's just me! If this group grows and gets huge, you might want to do a 'table of contents' post. That's what the social group wanted. It's kind of a PITA.... there's no way to make it 'sticky' to have it be at the top of the page, and you have to manually add the new discussions to it. If you want to do this, and want detailed instructions on how I've done it on the Song A Week group, send me a PM, and I'll expound! You may come up with a better way... I am managing the other group by the seat of my pants.... trying to figure things out by myself as I go along!
So I guess I'm saying that a "tune of week" thing really doesn't seem to fit the blues. How about a "concept of the month"? Weeks fly by too fast Perry, I don't think Jim was proposing actual full length tunes every week but , to quote, "more of a study of blues form, licks, patterns, etc.", which I think would be quite absorbable provided we can all play at a reasonable level. How we can repay him for his kindness is another matter.
Yes I think I know where Jim's stance is at........I was referring to the earlier posts about a tune o' the week. It's not about the tune but about the arsenal (not the the fish but the fishing pole) BTW in case you didn't know there's a few semesters worth of learning already on Jim's site. "Bring it on Home to Me"...great tune, you ever here Phoebe Snow sing it? That tune can lead into more jazzy concepts like substitutions etc. Therein lies a danger...taking the blues into more advanced territory leads you to JAZZ! I'm also gonna go out on a limb and suggest that's there plenty of other folks out here that can add their ideas to the mix.
Never heard of Phoebe Snow but I've just been listening to her on youtube. Nice voice but no "Bring it on home to me" up there, unfortunately. Sam Cooke's and The Animals' versions are the ones I base myelf on but as my voice is nothing like theirs at all you might say I have created an entirely novel version of the tune. So go on, Perry, how would you tweek the tune, substitutions, etc? I basically start off the first chorus with low double stops, move up to higher double stops then back down to kind of sketch out the melody, then I move up to the fifth fret (1st and second strings - I'm playing in D, to suit my voice) and fiddle about with the blues scales there and slip in some of the octave double stops. I'm a bit obsessed with double stops for the moment. Yes, I'm a regular visitor to Jim's site and am currently working on his Highway 69 in fits and starts.
Hi all. I'm Laura, and I want to play blues on the mandolin. Thanks for starting up this group. Code: a study of blues form, licks, patterns, etc. That sounds 'bout perfect. I'm looking forward to learning from Jim and the rest of you all. I'll be on the lookout for how I can contribute too.
a study of blues form, licks, patterns, etc.
okay here's my first attempt at a YouTube lesson. I find this pattern to be a good homebase to jump off of from. It's the blues scale.
thanks, good lesson Mike
My suggestion would be that the lessons, like that one you just submitted (thanks!) should have a discussion of their own... not buried in this discussion. The moderator of this site may even want to start a discussion much like the ones for links, etc., that the 'lesson's go in. But, if this site grows like it hopefully will, it will be easier to find these, if they have their own discussion!
I agree with Barb- let's keep the lesson's in one place. I'll start a "Topic discussion" area for that. If Jim agrees to do his thing, we'll have a separate area for his lessons, to keep everything in order. Thanks for all the input! Teri
Hi all Wasn't suggesting for me to take over the lesson/tune of the week--it should be a group effort. Egads, it's a social group, dagnamit. I'm just throwing my hat in the ring to help out. It actually got me thinking of putting together a blues mandolin summit here in Indiana. I'm having Rich out in December to give a workshop/performance (I'm sending out the press release this weekend). But I've wanted to arrange a blues mandolin camp that would have Rich, myself, Gerry Hundt (if he's interested), Bert Deivert (if he was in the states), Nikes H. (if he's inclined), Mike Butler (out of Indy who organized the Yank Tribute CD and owns Yanks Harmony) etc. Much like the Monroe Camp, except for the blues. Try to do it out of Indianapolis and maybe get Hal, the owner of the Slippery Noodle, to let us use space there and maybe have a faculty concert there. Something like that. The mural of Yank on the wall would be a nice backdrop to such an event. Blues mandolin is such a niche, but one that seems to have increasing interest, I'm for doing anything that will keep that going. As far as tune of the week, that could be done--I think that it'll be harder to do than the other Tune of the Week. However, one possibility is that if it were concurrently done w/ Instruction of the Week, perhaps we could see how people use the instruction to arrange the tune of the week. For example, maybe the tune of the week is Rock Me Baby (one that Yank used to do a lot but mainly known through BB King). The lesson of the week could be vibrato or Dominant 7th double stops. It'd then be up to the participant to incorporate the lesson into the tune. I'd contribute as many as I have time for.
Jim- we appreciate whatever you want to contribute, and as you suggested, "study of blues form, licks, patterns, etc." may be the way to go.
What a great idea for a group. I look forward to furthering my blues mando knowledge, which is very limited.
My first visit to the group now that it's up and running! Shame on me! I love it! I've already picked up a couple of things. I learn slow! There's enough on here already to keep me going for months! lol One thing: Jim, thanks for your tab on the "Young" riff. It's hard to see fingers on videos quite often and I have a terrible ear! I think this group is off to a great start!!!
It would be nice to have a subtopic naming specific blues mandolin artists and recordings.
What a great forum...I am in and starting to practice..... Mr Richter ...I say the study of blues form, licks, patterns, etc. is definitely the way to go.....thank you all for your time jim
Hello All, I just recently joined this group. What a great group of people, You all have some great ideas. Jim and Perry, you both seem to have a wealth of information that you are willing to help people with in getting started playing the blues or continuing on in thier quest with the blues. I myself was in a blues band for 25 years so my love for the blues goes very deep. I'm glad that I found this group. Happy Playing !!! P.S. Barbara, your group is one that I stand in awe of, to commit to that pace (a song a week) is outstanding, I only wish that I had that kind of time to devote to it.
Certainly there are times when structured discussion are in order. A lessons section is a case in point. But my own inclination is to avoid structure and let discussions free flow until they suggest an area where structuring the discussion will be valuable. But just glancing at the present discussions and comments there are some which will obviously grow and some which will hit a dead end. That's OK because the dead ends contribute as much to the overall direction as the popular discussions. I know on some sites I pay attention to there are as many as ten categories for discussion but only maybe three are really used and the others lay dormant and when someone comments on a dormant one no one bothers to read it and that person feels ignored. Anyway those are my thoughts. But then again I rather enjoy chaos. Just ask my wife. Bart
Another subject which might be interesting is "What mandolins in your collection and which of them do you gravitate to for playing the blues, and why?"... I have seven lower end mandolins and among them one is exceptional for blues. most of the others have virtues but the Stradolin is a real killer and I really get a kick out of the fact that it cost me about $100. Anyway I just thought it might be interesting see what folks have and how they use them for blues. And it would be interesting to see your collection, even if it is a collection of one mandolin. Just a thought. Bart
I know I am just a new guy here but how about a topic on fingerpicking the straight and natch'el blues on mandolin? Things like playing a Blind Blake thumb slip on mandolin or working out Rube Lacy's "Mississippi River Groan" (which he played in D minor tuning with a slightly flat third string) on the mando.
