New mandolin question. (eastman, the loar, richwood)

Hello everyone, long-time guitar player here, interested in picking up the mandolin. I have been searching the forum and learned a lot in the past few weeks. However, as a complete beginner, I am afraid of making a bad choice.

The most recommended starter mandolins (but still decent) seem to be the Eastman 305 and the Kentucky km-150. I really like the look of the eastmans (304/305) but I don't have the chance to try them. They would come at at least 600€.

I am located in Europe and I have come across this mandolin from Richwood Guitars.
https://richwoodguitars.com/products...pruce-top.html
It seems pretty good on paper but it is hard to find more information or user reviews. This would cost about 450€

Since my budget is pretty limited, I am also considering The Loar lm-110 honey creek. I can get it as b stock from Thomann for 200€ and save a lot, which makes sense since I never owned a mandolin before. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

The Richwood looks good, especially since it comes with a luthier set-up. Otherwise, sight-unseen, I'd tell you to go with the Eastman.

I'd be worried that the "The Loar" might discourage you, esecially if it is not set-up properly.

I've played few of the Richwood mandolins, one of them was the model in the link the other was kind of f style with simplified scroll.
The A was pretty much generic chinese pressed wood mandolin with filler/glue visible in the neck joint nad other tight spaces. nice looking solid wood but not carved. The plates were a bit thin, IMO, and supported by heavier tonebars so the sound suffered. I was OK for beginner but I think carved Kentucky or Eastman has greater potential.

I think you are likeliest to be happy with the Eastman.

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Originally Posted by Laroz

Hello everyone, long-time guitar player here, interested in picking up the mandolin. I have been searching the forum and learned a lot in the past few weeks. However, as a complete beginner, I am afraid of making a bad choice.

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At the expense of sounding kid of snippy, (my apologies in advance) let me go off a little bit on all the wonderful mandolin styles you seem to have passed over. You don't say what kind of mandolinning you want and you indicate you are a beginner and have never bought a mandolin before. So how do you know that you don't want a flat top or a carved top oval hole A style, (not to mention all the yummy bowl backs left on the shelf). Also, because of the relative popularity here in the usa of arch top f hole mandolins, the market may be softer for flat tops and oval holes, that may, in fact, be capable of doing everything you want a mandolin to do at a lower cost, (or higher quality at the same cost).

I don't know the relative availability of these other styles outside of the usa, but I can't imagine they are rare.

Just a thought, if not for you, for all those to follow with a similar goal. There is a whole lot more to the mandolin world than the f hole.

Snippy, but submitted with respect...

I've heard 3 or 4 Eastman 305 and 505's that sound great. I haven't heard a very good Eastman oval yet

Richwood's all-solid-wood, but heat-pressed and not hand-carved like the Eastman or the Loar Honey Creek. I sorta second JeffD's suggestions that you look into other types of mandolin available in Europe, especially if price is a major consideration. There are a variety of European-made instruments (quite a few made in Romania) that are generally available; flat-top styles, mostly, with a different sound from the carved-top, f-hole instruments you're considering.

If you're aiming to play bluegrass, a carved-top, f-hole instrument -- either an A-model, or an F-model with the "scroll and points" -- will be closer to the sound you want. As a beginner, the main consideration is to get one that's properly set up, with the bridge height, fit and placement correct, the nut properly slotted, decent strings installed, and the neck checked for straightness and proper "relief." This applies to any type of mandolin you get.

As a "long-time guitar player," you know about proper set-up. Mandolins differ from guitars, however -- especially the un-fixed "floating" bridge. You may end up buying from an on-line or mail-order firm that doesn't do shop set-ups, and have to either pay for one, or learn to do your own.

Eastman mandolins are quite popular on the Cafe; I've owned a few myself (just one now). The "economy" Loar Honey Creeks don't get the same high marks, but appear to be decently playable. You mention the Saga/Kentucky KM-150, also a popular choice.

If you can do hands-on comparative evaluation -- adapting your guitar skills to mandolin testing -- I think that's the best way to find what suits you. Not always easy to do, but in the end, the best path to buyer satisfaction, IMHO.

Good luck!

Thank you all for your replies. JeffD you don't sound snippy at all. Your response is very reasonable. Truth is I have been considering all the options but I wanted to keep the question more specific.
I will admit I was mostly hoping to hear that the RIchwood was a great deal but I knew it probably wasn't. Comparisons between a-style, f-style
f holes, a holes have been covered extensively in this forum and I didn't want to make another duplicate thread.

I play mainly jazz/blues and some folk, but I would like to learn classical mandolin too. I am not particularly interested in bluegrass but I am open to it and I really like the sound of a carved top. A carved top oval hole seemed like a good compromise so my first thought was the Eastman 304.

There are many bowlbacks in the market here. I am in Greece. There are many makers here. I am open to the idea of a Greek made bowlback since I get to try it but I am not sure if they are recommended for classical or structurally different from other bowlbacks. Would you consider something like this a better deal? http://www.matsikas.gr/en/Product-%C...BF-MD-303A_629 Thanks again for your time.

I haven't tried their mandolins, just a friend's bouzouki at a pub session, but Carvalho from Portugal look like good value in Europe. They're the flat topped, flat back style, which personally I find a lot more comfortable than a bowl back.

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Originally Posted by JeffD

So how do you know that you don't want a flat top or a carved top oval hole A style, (not to mention all the yummy bowl backs left on the shelf). Also, because of the relative popularity here in the usa of arch top f hole mandolins, the market may be softer for flat tops and oval holes, that may, in fact, be capable of doing everything you want a mandolin to do at a lower cost, (or higher quality at the same cost).

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I saw this Flatiron pancake which would work well for blues and folk:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/176702#176702

Welcome to the wonderful world of mandolins! The folks here are a big help — as you've already discovered.

Jeff and Allen are making a good point. Here's another:

Like you and a lot of other mando players, I was a long-time guitar player.

I discovered that mandolins are not like guitars. With guitar, a beginner can hear huge differences between instruments. Right? Mandolins: not so much so. They feel and sound pretty much the same at first. It's only with experience that your ear and touch start to notice differences. (Yes, the differences are huge. But they're not obvious.)

So a first mandolin should simply be something you can afford and can stand looking at. (If you don't like looking at it, you won't want want to pick it up.) Get one, play it for a while, and take your time deciding whether you want to stick with it.

If you do, that's when you should start thinking seriously about prices, types, and makers.

My first mando was a $50 used plywood Fender. It was enough to let me know I wanted to stick with it.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

So a first mandolin should simply be something you can afford and can stand looking at. (If you don't like looking at it, you won't want want to pick it up.) Get one, play it for a while, and take your time deciding whether you want to stick with it.

If you do, that's when you should start thinking seriously about prices, types, and makers.

My first mando was a $50 used plywood Fender. It was enough to let me know I wanted to stick with it.

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I completely agree with Charlie’s point here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding an affordable starter/beater mandolin and starting the journey from there. One of my first mandolins was a less than 100 dollar one that I bought cheap specifically because I needed one when I was working on the road the majority of the year. It’s still in my collection as backpacker mando for overnight hiking trips.

If you’re game for investing in a quality instrument, my advice is to play a variety of them before buying. Plenty of shops out there with hidden gems.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Welcome to the wonderful world of mandolins! The folks here are a big help — as you've already discovered.

Jeff and Allen are making a good point. Here's another:

Like you and a lot of other mando players, I was a long-time guitar player.

I discovered that mandolins are not like guitars. With guitar, a beginner can hear huge differences between instruments. Right? Mandolins: not so much so. They feel and sound pretty much the same at first. It's only with experience that your ear and touch start to notice differences. (Yes, the differences are huge. But they're not obvious.)

So a first mandolin should simply be something you can afford and can stand looking at. (If you don't like looking at it, you won't want want to pick it up.) Get one, play it for a while, and take your time deciding whether you want to stick with it.

If you do, that's when you should start thinking seriously about prices, types, and makers.

My first mando was a $50 used plywood Fender. It was enough to let me know I wanted to stick with it.

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You make some good points but I respectfully disagree that it’s hard for a guitarist new to mandolins to pick up on subtle differences. Anyone who has played decent guitars for any amount of time knows the tonal differences between different instruments. Where I think you might be going with your comment is if it’s your first mandolin and you’ve nothing to compare it with. My first mandolin was an eBay special that started falling to bits within a few months. That didn’t bother me as I just wanted something to start on. Next I bought an a-style Ozark which was a good instrument for the price but I very quickly knew that it wasn’t the sound I wanted. Within 6 months of starting I bought a secondhand Eastman blonde 515. The difference was like a punch in the gut; I could feel the top and sides resonating against my body. I was no expert by any means but my guitar experience meant I knew I had a good instrument.

Unfortunately, I ended up selling it to fund another guitar purchase - one of my few regrets. Now, after 15 years of not having a mandolin I’m looking to get another and it’s more than likely to be another Eastman but, as finds are tight it’ll probably be a 304 or 305 this time around.

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Originally Posted by JeffD

how do you know that you don't want a flat top or a carved top oval hole A style, (not to mention all the yummy bowl backs left on the shelf)

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You buy the tool that does the job you want done. If the job is bluegrass, then that's an f body f hole. But OP sounds like he's in Europe. There's a good chance he wants to play some classical or more likely some Celtic. For that an A body oval hole is preferred.

Well, I am a Kentucky guy myself. I went and played 4 different Eastman's this past weekend. A 305, 505, 315, and a 515. I was not impressed even a little. Although I have never played a Kentucky KM-150. I like the master models a lot, but they are a lot more money. For my money I would buy used because you can get a better deal. I know it is hard buying an instrument that you can't play first so maybe make sure that they have a good return policy if you buy it from a shop and if you buy it from a person make sure that you get a good enough deal so that you can resale it and not lose a bunch of money. I would for sure 100 percent NOT buy that Honey Creek though. It gives The Loar mandolins a bad name. I also have a Loar LM-400, and it is amazing, but I played a Honey Creek model and I actually laughed out loud about how bad it was. The playability was okay but the sound was terrible. I am pretty sure they are not carved either. Anyway, I feel like I am rambling so I will end with this. This will be your first mandolin so the best thing to do is find one that will be set up before it gets to you. Mandolins are hard to play at first and a well set up mandolin will make a big difference. If the Eastman and the Kentucky are both in your price range then go with the one you think looks the best, because most likely this won't be your last Mandolin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrTDnpah2uo

This video shows them side by side. I have to say that I think the Eastman is the way to go here. I never thought I would say that because I am a die-hard Kentucky guy, but it's hard to argue with that video.

I decided to start dabbling with the mandolin again last year and picked up a The Loar 310F Honey Creek. I'm a long time guitar player and worked for a while in a music store doing set ups and repairs, so I had the skills to set up the Honey Creek to play pretty good. And, let me tell you, it was a lot of work to get it to play good and intoned properly. I had to do some pretty extensive modifications to the bridge to get the feet firmly planted on the soundboard and I had to do quite a bit of shaving to get it the height down to where it needed to be, but in the end it played really nicely. I traded it this week for an Eastman MD315 and it is a night and day difference in sound and playability. The Honey Creek sounded like it was stuffed with socks compared to the Eastman.

Moral of the story, The Loar Honey Creek probably isn't going to be your best choice.

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Originally Posted by JeffD

...You don't say what kind of mandolinning you want and you indicate you are a beginner and have never bought a mandolin before. So how do you know that you don't want a flat top or a carved top oval hole A style, (not to mention all the yummy bowl backs left on the shelf)....

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This kind of thought process is how this newbie finds herself falling into the "one of each" camp. If only I had more $$ :mandosmiley:

I'd look for a flat-top if I were OP, it will work great in the genres listed and will be quite a bit less expensive for a nice instrument. See if you can find a used model from a local builder, you can sometimes get nice flat tops for reasonable prices that way (if you can find one).

I am also a beginner and I recently purchased a Big Muddy flattop. I am quite happy with it and I feel it has allowed me to progress better than my old Amazon-bought mandolin. If you can’t find a decent mandolin in your area, I would inquire how much they charge to ship to Europe. Recently they had a mandolin on sale for under $400, which is quite a steal for a hand-made solid-wood instrument.

If you can access thomann you may want to take their "harley beneton" models into consideration. They are quite cheap and with a bit of work sound quite nice.
And if buying used is an option for you maybe check out ebay-kleinanzeigen. There is a load of used or slightly used mandolins, old and new.

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Originally Posted by Dan in NH

You buy the tool that does the job you want done. If the job is bluegrass, then that's an f body f hole. But OP sounds like he's in Europe. There's a good chance he wants to play some classical or more likely some Celtic. For that an A body oval hole is preferred.

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What are the main differences between the building styles? I usualy thought it was just the looks. I got an F-Style Mandolin but usualy play classic pieces with it.

I believe the ' F ' style was designed for classical music.

Dave H

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Originally Posted by Dave Hanson

I believe the ' F ' style was designed for classical music.

Dave H

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Not sure that's true. Of course, you can play anything on 'any mandolin' but classical is usually played on 'Neopolitan' bowl back styles or with open holes.
I have an F style and an A style. I much prefer my A whilst both have 'f' holes. Both are really punchy though so if i was playing 'classical' styles all the time or even ITM then I'd be at least looking at an oval style holed mando. I don't think A or F would even be a consideration for me personally as I have never really seen by the cosmetics. I mean, of course, some outstanding examples will exist in any style, just that I personally wouldn't likely benefit other than aesthetics.

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Originally Posted by Laroz

Hello everyone, long-time guitar player here, interested in picking up the mandolin. I have been searching the forum and learned a lot in the past few weeks. However, as a complete beginner, I am afraid of making a bad choice.

The most recommended starter mandolins (but still decent) seem to be the Eastman 305 and the Kentucky km-150. I really like the look of the eastmans (304/305) but I don't have the chance to try them. They would come at at least 600€.

I am located in Europe and I have come across this mandolin from Richwood Guitars.
https://richwoodguitars.com/products...pruce-top.html
It seems pretty good on paper but it is hard to find more information or user reviews. This would cost about 450€

Since my budget is pretty limited, I am also considering The Loar lm-110 honey creek. I can get it as b stock from Thomann for 200€ and save a lot, which makes sense since I never owned a mandolin before. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

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I have a the Loar honey creek A style, and I love it. I have two Webers for comparison, and while the honey creek isn't in that league, it's really nice for the money, both in sound and playability. I'm not sure about a "B stock" one, but if you get one from a dealer who will set it up I think you will be pleased. All mandolins need to be set up for that matter. Anyway like I said I love mine. It's a delight.