Tunings and string gauges

Hello everyone! Hope you're keeping well.

I've been playing tenor guitars for the best part of a year now (after 14 years of ukuleles), but have been having a couple problems!

I have a Cromwell 1935 archtop - from bridge to nut is 23", with strings 11, 14, 22w, 32w. The A string never lasts more than 3-4 re-tunes. It breaks between the tuning peg and nut. The nut is clean and lubricated.

I have 2 other tenor guitars:

1930 National triolian, 23" scale, 10,13,24w,30w, CGDA
Tonewood T-1, 20.5" scale, 10,14,22w,32w, CGDA

I have found that on both these instruments, the D string 2nd/3rd fret is ALWAYS sharp by as much as 5Hz. I tend to tune the string down to counter this, but wondered if i'm doing something wrong with gauges?

Any advice appreciated!

11 gauge "A" @ 23" scale = over 28 lbs. - seems a bit excessive. It's a vintage instrument perhaps a little lighter gauges would be more appropriate? Have you tried 9's (19 lbs.) or 10's (23 lbs.)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HQentity

Tonewood T-1, 20.5" scale, 10,14,22w,32w, CGDA

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Your current set is a little light. Do you feel that these gauges are a little floppy? (Except the "A").

0.0100 in. 18.68 lbs
0.0140 in. 16.31 lbs
0.0220 in. 15.95 lbs
0.0320 in. 14.88 lbs

Your tuning may benefit from a little heavier gauges.

0.0100 in. 18.68 lbs
0.0150 in. 18.72 lbs
0.0240 in. 18.90 lbs
0.0360 in. 18.54 lbs

I tend to bend notes sharp by putting too much pressure behind the fret if my strings are too light.

So I was using a 10 before with the Cromwell, but I struggled even to tune it up once without it breaking! So I went to a guitar shop and they suggested I tried 11? If I use a 9, will that possibly survive instead then?

The Tonewood gauges do feel a little floppy to what I prefer, yes! So that means I need a higher gauge? Is there a rule for how high you can get before it is dangerous?!

Well try and get you head around this as it is surprising but a .9 tuned to A on a 23#» scale will be close to its natural breaking strain but... so will a .10 or a .12 or a .20
The thicker strings will be under more pressure to reach pitch so still close to breaking strain.
That is a basic statement but basically to get a lower tension feel with the A string ... you need to drop the scale length not increase the string size.
More to the point ...you can expect the A string on a 23’’ instamment ‘no matter what string you choose’ to be short lived especially if you play hard.

So, I guess I would be better off not tuning to that tuning then! Food for thought. I did consider tuning down (Bb F C G) and using a capo.

How do I decide how high gauge I can safely go before damaging the instrument? I like high tension!

There are already hundreds and hundreds of post on here about string choice ....
Firstly ... it is still very popular to tune CGDA on 23’’ tenor guitars and tenor banjos and has been for a long time.
Lots of folk dont have issues but there is no doubt many do!
Personally I prefer GDAE on 23’’ scales and CGDA on 20-22’’ scales.
Most Tenor guitars seem to be happy with around 70-85lbs of total tension over the four strings or 20lb per string.
Vintage guitars might suit more delicate tensions and some mass production new guitars might except a bit more.
You can study one of the On line string tension charts and spend hours playing with tunings and tensions ha ha ha.....
Buy single guitar string and make your own sets ........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HQentity

Hello everyone! Hope you're keeping well.

I've been playing tenor guitars for the best part of a year now (after 14 years of ukuleles), but have been having a couple problems!

I have a Cromwell 1935 archtop - from bridge to nut is 23", with strings 11, 14, 22w, 32w. The A string never lasts more than 3-4 re-tunes. It breaks between the tuning peg and nut. The nut is clean and lubricated.

I have 2 other tenor guitars:

1930 National triolian, 23" scale, 10,13,24w,30w, CGDA
Tonewood T-1, 20.5" scale, 10,14,22w,32w, CGDA

I have found that on both these instruments, the D string 2nd/3rd fret is ALWAYS sharp by as much as 5Hz. I tend to tune the string down to counter this, but wondered if i'm doing something wrong with gauges?

Any advice appreciated!

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On the National and Tonewood, I would have a knowledgeable person / guitar tech check out your nut and saddle. My guess is that the either the saddle is not compensated (and maybe it needs to be) on your D strings or the nut slot is cut too shallow on the D string (which makes the lower fret notes to play sharp) and one of those is what is causing the out of tune D string.

On the Cromwell (and the National), presuming you are using CGDA on each, just use a well-planned tenor banjo set designed for 23" and CGDA, such as the D'Addario EJ63 set 10, 16, 23 wound, 30 wound. The 10 should stop the breaking on the A string. You could go down to a 9 too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by liestman

On the Cromwell (and the National), presuming you are using CGDA on each, just use a well-planned tenor banjo set designed for 23" and CGDA, such as the D'Addario EJ63 set 10, 16, 23 wound, 30 wound. The 10 should stop the breaking on the A string. You could go down to a 9 too.

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John,

I'm curious why you would recommend the banjo set over a tenor guitar set?

EJ63 Tenor Banjo Strings (Has a 9 not a 10 according to their website).

0.0090 in. 19.05 lbs
0.0160 in. 26.82 lbs
0.0230 in. 21.23 lbs
0.0300 in. 15.97 lbs

EJ66 Tenor Guitar Strings

0.0100 in. 23.52 lbs
0.0140 in. 20.53 lbs
0.0220 in. 20.08 lbs
0.0320 in. 18.73 lbs

Or better yet, change to a 9 for a more balanced set.:

0.0090 in. 19.05 lbs
0.0140 in. 20.53 lbs
0.0220 in. 20.08 lbs
0.0320 in. 18.73 lbs

Just my opinion. I respect your experience so I'm curious for your answer.

Thanks,
Huck

Hey, I'm selling a vintage National Style 1 tenor tricone (but keeping my Style 2!) that I've always strung for CGDA. Buyer wants it set up for GDAE. Those of you playing Nationals in GDAE, what string gauges do you prefer?

If you can say what strings you use for CGDA we can match the tension with GDAE.
However I think a slightly lighter set than normal will suit a resonator 12p 17p (or 18w) 28w 42w.
You might find a heavy Irish tenor banjo set will work well.

Well, for standard tuning I usually go with the D'Addario gauges: 32-22-14-10. I've used the Martin tenor set as well, but that apparently is no longer available. I think the C in the Martin set was a 30, not a 32.

Oh well in that case you can fit a standard JP set https://www.elderly.com/products/joh...nor-guitar-set i am sure the new owner will be happy with them ... and if he is not tell him (her) to get on the forum and we will adjust to taste.....

... On this one, that I have just finished the transformation... it sound so much wonderfully !... that the gauges will be like that during the test (1 year necessary to feel and see, and understand...) :
- GG = .39
- DD = .23
- AA = .14
- ee = .10

Attachment 192780

After... May be:
- GG = .40
- DD = .24
- AA = .14
- ee = .10

... the initial project was:
- GG = .40 /.20
- DD = .24 /.11
- AA = .14 /.07 or .08
- ee = .10 /.10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrmando

Well, for standard tuning I usually go with the D'Addario gauges: 32-22-14-10. I've used the Martin tenor set as well, but that apparently is no longer available. I think the C in the Martin set was a 30, not a 32.

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Actually the Martin Tenor Set has been renamed as Vega & it's a Tenor Banjo String set. You could convert it to a tenor Guitar string set by adding ball ends to the strings.