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I'm trying to put together a list of 20 tunes that should be the essential core repertoire for all Oldtime mandolinists. I want this list of tunes to be a broad sampling of all the different Oldtime styles for players at varying levels of ability. What do you think I should include? Thanks!
That is an interesting question. I can think of standard repertoire tunes like Soldier's Joy or Mississippi Sawyer but most sessions or parties or festivals I have been to, you rarely hear the warhorses these days. And there are some tunes that will be popular and will then fade from most people's repertoire.
I am sure that you will get a wide sampling on this thread but, frankly, I am not sure what purpose a small list would serve. Frankly, I would take a look at Larry Warren's site, for instance, and pick a handful of tunes in various keys from there and hope for the best. I am not sure what a core repertoire would actually be for old time music these days.
Why did you not ask for 20 core tunes for mandolin in the " rock, folk rock,etc" forum?
What exactly is your goal?
Not as easy as it sounds. If you are asking what are the 20 tunes that I should learn to be competent at most any old timey jam it is really difficult. There are regional differences in what is popular at any given moment, and even within a region, there are differences between one jam and another in how "orthodox" old timey they get. And also, how experienced the jammers are. A jam with more seasoned players is probably going to avoid many of the war horses and play more esoteric stuff, while a mixed jam will have a higher percentage of tunes everyone knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbmandolin
Tough question.
Were you to ask for the top 20 contra dance tunes I could do it, as I notice that the there is a lot of regional overlap. I am going to guess that about one third of the repertoire of just about any contra dance pick up band in the country is the same. But not so for old time jams.
Here's a few: Ducks on the Pond, Soldier's Joy, Buffalo Gals, Cumberland Gap, Pretty Little Girl, Darling Nelly Grey, Cold Frosty Morining, Blackberry Blossom, Old Grey Mare, Big Sciota (or Scioty), Fire on the Mountain, June Apple, Fly Around Pretty Little Miss, Sally Ann (Sail Away Ladies), West Virginia Girls, Bury Me Beneath the Willow, Flop-eared Mule, Boatman Dance, Leather Britches, New Five Cent Piece, Midnight on the Water, Lost Indian, Old Joe Clark, Cotton Eyed Joe, Kitchen Girl, Shove That Pig's Foot a Little Further in the Fire, Grey Eagle, I've Endured, Rain and Snow, Cluck Old Hen, Liza Jane, Shady Grove, Cookhouse Joe, Georgia Railroad, Big-eyed Rabbit, and many more including Nail That Catfish to a Tree.
Go here to see the keys:
http://www.oldtimejam.com/Tunes.html
Good question. I wrote some out in the bluegrass thread but then erased it after I saw it was a thread everywhere. I didn't do it to be part of a survey. Thought it was originally a legit question. I'm out. Then again I could just be grumpy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles E.
Hmmm. I see that. Whats up dbmandolin? Are you publishing a book?
I think the easiest way to figure out the tunes central to any jam is to attend the jam and experience what tunes are played a lot.
Guess if I knew what it was about.
I'd go to that old time jam! Learn these!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl Watson
f-d
Hey, thanks so much for these suggestions! Good questions too. Mostly, I'm putting together these lists for my own benefit. I love learning new tunes and I want to learn tunes in many genres that are well know amongst their respective music circles. I also hope to use these tunes as a resource my students and other mandolin players. Finding a common ground of an essential repertoire is a great starting point for students (at least that has been my experience).
Poor choice of words and attitude on my part.Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty miller
With the goal of "learning new tunes in many genres," a good idea would be to check out the Song-A-Week Social Group here. To get voted in as a tune of the week, it's usually fairly well known. You can get a good sampling of old time, Celtic, and BG. There are #235 tunes listed in the Table of Contents and hundreds more in the Table of Contents for other tunes. Even from those lists, , I'd say there are way more than twenty that I'd put on an "Essential OT" list. and there are lots more they haven't had time to vote in yet.
Do you want twenty tunes in D or some in that other key? ;)
Seriously though, in addition to tunes like (I hate to say it) Angeline the Baker (D) and Cluck Old Hen (Am) for beginner tunes, you might want to consider some rags in C. Stones Rag, Old Melinda, and New Money come to mind.
Check out the thread "what's your new fiddle tune" in this forum, lots of good tunes.
Good luck with your teaching and musical endeavours.
You can also go to a local jam and write down the tunes they play.
f-d
Old Joe Clark, Johnny Cope, all 3 Liza Janes, Cherokee Shuffle, Mississippi Sawyer, that'll git you started
I'm just getting into a lot of Old Time while learning the clawhammer banjo. There might be a couple duplicates from above lists.
Boatman, Black Eyed Suzie, Bull at the Wagon, Cotton Eyed Joe, Broken Down Gambler, Crow Creek, Johnny Don't get Drunk, Lost Indian, Hangman's Reel, Cuckoo's Nest, Kitchen Girl, Little Rabbit, Liberty, Possum in a Well, Jump Jim Crow, Sandy Boys, Jaybird, John Brown's March, Dry and Dusty, Flop Eared Mule.
Lots of Old Time tunes out there.
20 tunes in multiple genres. Yeah you will get a "core" (sort of) in each but not much of anything in any of those genres. Besides after you master those 100 tunes in old time, celtic, jazz, classical and bluegrass then you go to a gathering/rehearsal and none of them are being played.
I play a lot of old time, but rarely do I hear anyone play Old Joe Clark or Angeline the Baker except rank beginners. Sometimes it is nice to return to those tunes and re-explore them but for the most part jam repertoire does move on and get to more obscure tunes. I would say you need at least 100 core tunes in each genre to get anywhere -- and best to stick around in each genre to learn the nuances.
Click Home, upper left click tab, click old time
Ditto here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Garber
I conclude that there can be no "core 20" Old time. Any attempt to bottle it up that way is an exercise in the arbitrary. You are essentially asking us to offer up a list commensurate with Rolling Stone magazine's list of 100 favorite Beatle tunes. Except this is far more subjective, because at least the Beatles tunes were all composed by 4 guys during the same short time span. Old Time music has developed over several hundred years. Many of the genres have evolved in relative isolation from each other.
I just spent the weekend jamming with one of the premier Old Time performers and ethnomusicologists in the Pacific Northwest. He shared with me his Contra Dance tune list of about 80 tunes. I knew about 10 of the tunes, at best. I'd heard about 10 more of them. It was just as easy for me to start playing tunes he couldn't play. And that's how these sessions usually go, with passionate players wishing to teach other players previously unknown great tunes. My friend also mentioned to me that New England contra dance bands have a completely different grab bag of Old Time tunes than our part of the country.
I notice that you ask the same question on a Celtic thread. That music draws from a far deeper well.
Thanks Cheryl...great resource "oldtimejam.com
Sandy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl Watson
The old standards- Soldiers Joy, Arkansas Traveler and such- don't get played nearly as much as I wish they would. It's like there's a rule against playing something everyone knows. Too bad. They are a great way to start off a big group.
As I got used to jamming and ran across a continuous stream of tunes I didn't know I did find I was learning them faster and faster so that on most tunes that aren't too crooked I could keep up on the second or third time through. I often record tunes as a jam goes along then go home and polish up the stuff I just heard.
Thanks for the suggestions! Sorry to raise any controversy or frustration with my question. Perhaps it is an unfair question to ask. I realize that there can't be a true "core" repertoire of twenty tunes in any of these genres. However, I feel that finding the common ground between the different practicing areas of this historic tradition would be a great resource for me and my students. Thanks again! I appreciate all of your input and experience so much!
Part of the trick of picking 20 tunes is that one "old time" group of jammers might have a different set of "core" tunes than another group of jammers down the street.
The best idea is to go to some jams and see what THEY play. Record the jam or write down all the tunes. Do this a bunch of times.
Enjoy!
For all those war horses that don't get played much, I like to sneak them in. So for example Old Joe Clark might not be a choice, but in a rip snorting jam I might sneak it in after another, more esoteric tune, if the energy is right. Everyone usually responds positively, and actually enjoys the common tune in the new context.
Its another way to make old new again.
I don't really understand all this work in being prepared for what one might find at a jam. Best way to find out what you need to know is to go to the jam, and its more than likely however prepared you think you are, you will not be prepared anyway.
The jam, be it Irish Traditional, Old Time, Bluegrass, it used to where people got together to learn and share music. Now it seems folks think its a place to play what you have worked on back home in the woodshed.