Sweep picking on mandolin?

I see lots of NVNV picking exercises in my method and exercise books, some reverse picking and some mixed picking. Is 'sweep picking' much used on mandolin? I'm talking about pieces where say you have a one note per string arpeggiated sequence on D A G, and play those NNN.

I’m sure there are many more examples but one I like is in this video of Emory Lester, at about 1:00 he does all downstrokes thru the chord progression, pretty cool sound.

That is basically an arpeggiated chord and I believe is sometimes called a harp effect. Why not? That is what music is about.

Starting on page 60 on Volume 2 of the reissued Calace method (Lichtenberg & Marshall) there is are some Exercises Using Arpeggios which indicate down strokes then upstrokes. Translator note says "This is also called 'harp arpeggio' or 'cross-picking.' The first of these #320 uses 8 note arpeggios (4 down and 4 up) and the second uses 6 note ones (3 down and 3 up)

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Originally Posted by Jim Garber

That is basically an arpeggiated chord and I believe is sometimes called a harp effect. Why not? That is what music is about.

Starting on page 60 on Volume 2 of the reissued Calace method (Lichtenberg & Marshall) there is are some Exercises Using Arpeggios which indicate down strokes then upstrokes. L&M have a note saying, "This is also called "harp arpeggio" or "cross-picking." The first of these #320 uses 8 note arpeggios (4 down and 4 up) and the second uses 6 note ones (3 down and 3 up)

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Thanks. This is an old technique for classical/Italian players.

On page 49 of Bickford Mandolin Method Volume 4 there is an etude called "Arpeggios on Four Strings" followed on the next page by "The Arpeggio on Three Strings."

Here's the the top and the first lines of both:

Attachment 192452 Attachment 192453

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Originally Posted by bigskygirl

I’m sure there are many more examples but one I like is in this video of Emory Lester, at about 1:00 he does all downstrokes thru the chord progression, pretty cool sound.

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Excellent, thanks. It looks like he's sweeping up N through the chords then partially V back down again, in one seamless movement!

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Originally Posted by Jim Garber

On page 49 of Bickford Mandolin Method Volume 4 there is an etude called "Arpeggios on Four Strings" followed on the next page by "The Arpeggio on Three Strings."

Here's the the top and the first lines of both:

Attachment 192452 Attachment 192453

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Thanks Jim, but those attachments aren't displaying on this PC.

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Originally Posted by maxr

Thanks Jim, but those attachments aren't displaying on this PC.

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Nor on my Mac at least at this time.

Something like this?:

Attachment 192459

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Originally Posted by DavidKOS

Nor on my Mac at least at this time.

Something like this?:

Attachment 192459

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Thanks for that chart David, that should keep me going for a while. Do you stop that on each string in turn, or sweep through them all with a constant motion?

Sorry. I am not sure what happened there. I think I posted a pdf and it got converted to two images that no longer show up.

Here are the two Bickford pages from volume 4 as jpegs:

Attachment 192587 Attachment 192588

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Originally Posted by maxr

Thanks for that chart David, that should keep me going for a while. Do you stop that on each string in turn, or sweep through them all with a constant motion?

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Each sweep is one long down (or up)stroke across all strings, in a carefully timed constant motion.

It's fun practice, I'm still getting better at being smooth at it.

Check the attachment in Jim's post as it has picking marks.

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Originally Posted by maxr

I see lots of NVNV picking exercises in my method and exercise books, some reverse picking and some mixed picking. Is 'sweep picking' much used on mandolin? I'm talking about pieces where say you have a one note per string arpeggiated sequence on D A G, and play those NNN.

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What do the letters N and V signify?

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Originally Posted by Jim Garber

That is basically an arpeggiated chord and I believe is sometimes called a harp effect. Why not? That is what music is about.

Starting on page 60 on Volume 2 of the reissued Calace method (Lichtenberg & Marshall) there is are some Exercises Using Arpeggios which indicate down strokes then upstrokes. Translator note says "This is also called 'harp arpeggio' or 'cross-picking.' The first of these #320 uses 8 note arpeggios (4 down and 4 up) and the second uses 6 note ones (3 down and 3 up)

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"harp arpeggio" sounds to me like a tautology. The word "arpeggio" derives from "arpa"=harp. Anyway to my mind arpeggio and sweep picking is not really the same thing. An arpeggio is a broken chord, where the individual notes may very well be played one at a time, e.g., with alternating up- and downstrokes. A sweep is one stroke distributed over several strings and may be combined with various left hand legato devices. The guitar is far richer in possibilities than the mandolin owing to the tuning in smaller intervals.

I use it very little, if at all, on mandolin, but extensively on guitar (probably inspired by Barney Kessel). I do use a kind of abbreviated sweep on mandolin when playing triplets. Either dropping the pick from one course to the next higher one or splitting a down stroke across one course.

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Originally Posted by ralph johansson

What do the letters N and V signify?

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I think those are the bowing direction symbols that look like n’s and v’s.

N and V (Nobilis and Vilis, from 1698 according to Wiki) now appear in a number of mandolin method books for Down and Up strokes. Violin convention, b.t.w., is that the indicated direction is maintained for as long as a single tie covers the notes, because that gives the 'phrasing' sound. So e.g. 4 notes (or 8, or 12, or...) with an N on the first one would all be played in the same direction with one down bow. Obviously that's only going to work for mandolin in specific circumstances, so the exercises Jim Garber kindly posted above have a pick indication on every note so we're sure.

Most mandolin and guitar methods and tablatures, and some sheets, use something more like the capital Pi symbol and the carat or (often inverted) v letter.

An "open bottomed box" similar to the capital Pi symbol indicates downstroke, while the "v" indicates upstroke. I don't know the origin of these conventions, but they could well have been developed from the small n and v of Nobilis and Vilis ...