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My girlfriend recently acquired her dad's old Raymond bowlback mandolin, which is unplayable due to the indentation/crack on the left side of the top sound board. Id like to get it repaired (I know a guy who makes his own guitars who could probably do it) but I dont know how old it is and Im not sure if repairing it would drop the value. Thoughts?
Hard to say anything without pictures, but it's probably an early 1900's "made for trade" instrument made in a Chicago or New York area factory, and not particularly valuable-- most likely no more than a few hundred dollars. Repairing it won't reduce the value if the repair is well done. But if the damage is bad, or it needs a lot of other work to make it playable, the cost of the repair might exceed the value of the instrument.
Raymond was a brand for the Wurlitzer Company. The mandolin was probably made for them by Lyon & Healy or perhaps some other Chicago Company, as Bob said.
The problem has to be more than a crack if it is actually unplayable. Something would be making the strings too high or too low.
Few repair people are comfortable with bowl backs, but most can address a top crack if that’s all that’s wrong.
In the condition as you have described it the value is basically nothing. If it was playable with no cracks or defects the value might be $100.00 to $200.00 maybe $300.00 on a good day if the planets align and you find the right buyer. Repaired the value isn't going to be more than that. The cost of doing the repair will probably exceed the value of the instrument no matter what. If you're going to get it repaired then go in with your eyes wide open. Also, as Richard has mentioned it might not just be a top issue and that bowlback construction is unlike any guitar your friend has ever seen.
How do I post pictures? I'm new to this site (surprise suprise)
Here is a short video tutorial created by the site owner on how to post a picture. If that doesn't work for you try the message above it in the thread.
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Two top cracks, plus sound-hole crack, possibly caused by having too heavy strings on there such as those currently on it.
Slacken off the strings today, don't try to tune it again, then decide on repair pathway.
A side-on photo showing the full length of the instrument would give a chance to see whether it needs a neck reset.
Looks like a decent player's instrument otherwise.
I don't think the cracks are the only problem with the top.
Mike is right. Unless it is an issue with the light reflection it looks like there is some top distortion. A closer side view of the top, neck soundhole are would help to see of the neck is starting to cave in the top.
Bob: you and Mike are correct: the reflection IS from the indentation that is dropping the bridge on that side, resulting in strings that are too close to the fretboard. Whether the indentation (prob caused by something giving way somewhere under the 'pick guard') caused the crack, or vice-versa, I'm not sure.
I'll post some side view pics later tonight.
Could easily be a brace under the top and might be fixed by humidifying the mandolin and regluing the brace though I might think it is a lot harder to do that through the small soundhole on these bowlbacks.
If it's not a brace loose under the fingerboard extension, one could be added for support. There is more than just the cracks, there is the cause.
Regardless of monetary value, I think it’s a fine looking one and might be considered family sentimental. Yes, bowl back repair isn’t available everywhere, but the saving grace is the sound hole, which provides access for the clamps needed to raise and glue the brace or put in a new one. Same tool set as for guitars.
But put a straight edge along the fretboard and see where the strings will or won’t intersect the bridge (if the bridge is back up where it belongs). That will tell you if the neck has deformed, which is a much bigger and more expensive deal. Assume the string height at fret 12 is a bit less than 0.100” when set up.
My sister-in-law bought an A.C. Fairbanks bowlback recently, from a work colleague. She doesn't play: I do, and I repair. She showed it to me, and because she has found many useful items(including instruments) at her town 'dump'(or exchange/freebie hut), and given them to me, i said I would fix the top crack(n/c), it look easy and straightforward.....
It was not(partly because someone with no idea of repair had put glue in the crack, but not clamped it). This is only the second bowlback I've worked on...because the first was also not straightforward either. As noted above, bowlbacks are challenging to repair, and mostly have little cash value. I did successfully repair the Fairbanks, and it came out well. But it would need additional work to play well(frets, poor neck angle, which will not happen).
My point is that, for the OP, the top repair may well not be simple(expensive), and only once that is done can it be safely strung up, and any other issues affecting playability then determined, and priced.
Best of luck!
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Looking down the neck from the tuning pegs (the 1st photo) the warpage/indentation is very apparent!
egads! mandolin kaput!
Now there's a challenge!
I would probably want to remove the top, steam it back flat, glue up the cracks and possibly make new braces - the originals will certainly be loose, and may also be distorted out of shape. Oh, and that bridge needs a replica making that isn't all bent out of shape!
Perfectly repairable, you just need to decide if it's worth the $$'s.
Ah,yes, family heirlooms like this are what drives the burgeoning bowlback repair industry, pouring literally tens of dollars into the world economy! :)
Unless the OP’s guitar-repairing friend wants a challenge or is willing to do a big favor this may be a good candidate for the bowlback wall decoration. OP does not mention if GF even plays mandolin. Raymond might be fine as a part of the decor and would be fine to remind her if dear old dad.
Good point! Wall hangers serve a fine purpose, IMHO.
Of course, I can also enjoy seeing a junkyard full of rusted, non-running antique cars -- I see no need to spend thousands making an old car drivable, just to realize it doesn't have air conditioning or cruise control...
When I saw this one I was thinking "I'm sure I've seen Tavy resurrect a similar case"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavy
These always remind me of the Teddy Bear's Hospital cases of the musical world;
Thinking it's worth the money or you'll end up with a lovely teddy to give to the grandkids kind of misses where the value might lie. (not to mention the choking & fire hazard!)
These cases are for softer hearts who want the connection to the past, the feeling of carrying the family baton forward, rather than an investment piece.
How much to fill the room with & hear the same sounds that gave pleasure to her dad?