What characterises a slide in Irish music?

Hello, as a bouzouki and mandolin player, I am familiar with the different kinds of Irish session tunes, and these include a relative small number of slides (12/8) that are represented in the local repetoire, eg Star Above the Garter, Dingle Regatta, Road to Lisdoonwarner, O'Keefe's. We tend to play them together, but it seems to me they sit well with the jigs too, since the 12/8 and 6/8 time signatures allow it. So my quetion is, "What essentially makes a slide a slide?" Another way to ask the question is, if I were writing a tune (I have written a few) what would inform me whether I was writing a slide or a jig? Surely its not simply a matter of which time signature I choose? Since it is all basically dance music, does it have to do with the nature and rhythm of the dance?
Thanks for any clarification. I tried to look up old threads, but all I got was "slide mandolin" which is not really what I meant....

I've forgotten the details, but it has to do with the longer notes replacing some of the triplets that characterise jigs. There may also be a different dance associated with it!

There are loads of info about slides in Irish music readily available on the net. Here is a link to a discussion on The Session website from 20 years ago:

https://thesession.org/discussions/1025

I'm not even going to try to describe how they are played differently, It'll just be word soup.
Alan Ng has done a good job of distilling the differences here: https://www.irishtune.info/rhythm/
I would add that in London sessions I've been to both jigs and slides, along with many tunes get played way too fast for the steps in their dances to be properly executed. However the best way to really get a feel for the differences is to watch the dances & see what gravity will dictate in terms of shifts of weight & direction. That really gives you a feel for where to lean on a note or let it off early to allow space & lightness.
Slides seem quite sprightly, but there's actually a lazy swing within the bars which means they are still light & unhurried for the dancers to execute.

Playing a bouzouki, and probably mandolin too, involves accompaniment as well as the melody. So here is an excellent tutorial describing the difference between jigs and slides from a guitarist's point of view.

https://youtu.be/NkMW_yPyZLs

Quarter note eighth note combinations interspersed with runs of eighth notes. Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall, describes this with humpty, and dumpty each being a quarter note eighth note combination and the sat on the wall representing a run of eighth notes. Where runs of eighth notes come in the tune is variable and doesn’t change the overall rhythm. The best way to illustrate this is with this recording I did for the SAW group a while back. First time through I just play it with quarter eighth notes with a down up picking pattern to establish the rhythm. When the eighth note runs start to come in second time through I add these in as DUD followed by a down then return to the down up pattern. Some tunes have more runs of eighth notes as an integral part of the melody- the second part of Merrily Kissed the Quaker is a common example in sessions and I go into a jig DUD during that section which does take on a jig feel. It is of course possible to play any slide like a jig and I think in beginner sessions road to lisdoonvarna is more commonly played as a jig

Thanks for the helpful response. I see this question has occupied a few minds, and that just talking technically about notation is not enough. It is very much to do with the feel of the tune, and I suspect that as a number of my session friends are relative beginners, we don't really notice the difference without the help of an experienced mentor. So the videos are both helpful, addressing melody playing and accompanying, and as a simple go-to reference I like the quote fron the "Session" discussion:
If the penultimate Irish jig is something like the Irish Washerwoman (kidding, I’m kidding) then the penultimate Irish slide is Pop Goes the Weasel.

I'll try to apply all this - and then maybe I'll manage to write something that really feels like a slide... :-)

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Originally Posted by James Rankine

Quarter note eighth note combinations interspersed with runs of eighth notes. Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall, describes this with humpty, and dumpty each being a quarter note eighth note combination and the sat on the wall representing a run of eighth notes. Where runs of eighth notes come in the tune is variable and doesn’t change the overall rhythm.

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Thanks James,
A great example of a commonplace slide. Another common tune (around here at least), which to my ears has kind of a slide feel, is the theme tune to the Archers from radio 4. Maybe this is an unusual or amusing juxtaposition and isn't trad Irish, but might be a useful example of a slide type of tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNEawM6vZf4

Here is a folkier version of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCFhbfIygkI

My take on a slide is that it is 12 8 timing with less triplets than a jig, not diddly diddly but 1 and 3 1 and 3 etc. Usually played faster, and definitely count 4 to a bar rather than 2.

PS we may know some people in common James, I have ventured over the Pennines for a tune on occasion, not for while though. Always great to know of fairly local mando players :)

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Originally Posted by Tim N

I'll try to apply all this - and then maybe I'll manage to write something that really feels like a slide... :-)

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Writing is a good way to learn. I'd suggest transcribing some traditional slides first however. That experience will show some subtle rhythmic and melodic 'twists' that are essential in understanding the 'concept' of a dance form called The Slide.

The Archers theme song is a clear example of a composer that understands the rhythm but goes nuts with the non-traditional accompaniment and harmonies.

Also the music was 'composed' well before standard musical notation was applied, hence the need to look at it's function in Traditional Irish culture as Matt Heaton suggests.

A ' slide in Irish music is also known as a single jig '

Dave H

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Originally Posted by Paul Cowham

Thanks James,


PS we may know some people in common James, I have ventured over the Pennines for a tune on occasion, not for while though. Always great to know of fairly local mando players :)

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I’m sure we do Paul. Wednesday night at the Chemic is my stomping ground. Angela Usher graced us with her presence a few months ago.

For what it's worth, triplets aren't a tune part or phrase as such in ITM. Merely ornaments, just like rolls, cuts, and crans. Jigs don't have triplets. Triplets may be used to ornament parts of the tune but a double jig can be played just fine with nary a triplet.