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Might seem like a silly question but I am curious why aren't bar frets used anymore? Seems, in my mind, they would be easier to make, with all these laser cutting machines, in various thicknesses and heights and easier to install. I have not worked with bar frets so my first-hand experience with them is limited.
Thanks!
Check out the blog at hazeguitars.com, which tells all - or probably all. Obviously a lot more work, more skill, and more danger to the instrument since, lacking tangs or barbs, they are held in by compression only. ‘Modern’ machining doesn’t help with something that doesn’t seat on the fretboard either; each slot will have different depth so substantial leveling is necessary. Any virtues? Let someone else comment on that.
None.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard500
Much harder to install, much harder to get good feeling frets, just more problematic in general.
We have the technology to make and install "T" frets so why would we want to use archaic bar frets without a good reason?
I've worked with bar frets enough to feel competent working with them, but the amount of work is bordering on ridiculous compared to T frets.
If there is an advantage it might be the very slight advantage of being able to have frets of varying heights. Early Martin guitars had frets that were higher toward the nut and lower toward the body. Being able to mill those frets lower toward the nut was a way of delaying the first neck reset. To me, that is certainly not enough of an advantage to warrant using bar frets.
As for those individuals who claim a difference in sound, they'll have to show me supporting evidence from at least one double blind listening test.
The only advantage to bar frets was compression fretting. Martin had frets a few thousands wider and it would straighten the neck when using a thicker fret. I refretted my '28 2-17 with the next size wider that I happened to have purchased from Martin 20 years or so ago when they sold out. It leveled the neck perfectly without doing anything else. The rest of the fret job, as John says, not as easy. I know there are T frets of varying tang thicknesses, but since it had bar frets and I had the right ones I decided to keep it original.
Bar frets are archaic technology. Although Martin, always stubborn to change in the old days, did not discontinue bar frets until 1934, they are 19th century technology.
The biggest advantage of bar frets is that they add some stiffness to a neck, but that effect is far greater on guitars than it is on mandolins.
And yes, compression refretting really works with bar frets, while its effectiveness with T frets is debatable at best.
The biggest disadvantage is that installing them takes at least 3 times more labor time than a standard T-fret job. Levelling and crowning bar frets takes hours of filing, and few people do it well. I think most people give up before they get a really smooth crown due to sore muscles. You have to file, file, and file some more; then put the work aside for a day, and then pick up your tools and start filing again.
For those who want to try it, the back of the fret can be barbed with a cold chisel to get a tight seat in the fret slots.
Interesting, I had to wonder because with the advent of pork and CNC I thought maybe it might be more viable. I do like the feel of the bar frets in my old Vega but I don’t dislike the frets in my Old Wave. I guess maybe it is more a preference for tall and narrow and maybe not so much bar and t. Thanks everyone.
Pork?
That’s much older than mandolins, I’m told.
I didn’t catch that it was supposed to be plec!
You can use a wider tang and get the same advantages for compression fretting. My understanding is that this is how Martin did it after they gave up bar frets.Quote:
Originally Posted by pops1
I have bar frets on my only mandolin. When it is time for a refret I will put a new board on and fret with T frets.
#^@& bar frets!!!!
The only advantage of bar frets I can see is that they can be manufactured easier. Just cutting them from sheet. Everything else is well behind T-frets. SInce there are big manufacturers provide us with wide range of T-wire there's no need to revive use of bar frets.
The biggest advantages of T is that if you properly install them on perfectly prepared fingerboard there is no real need for any levelling (mostly just to check the final surface). They all sit on the same surface and are same height. They also cover the slots and any damage or worn places after refrets are hidden... And you can easily undercut the ends over binding... try that on bar frets!
I have and it is a pita, but It's not really that bad, especially compared to leveling the frets!Quote:
Originally Posted by HoGo
Many old Martin guitars with fingerboard binding had bar frets trimmed to fit over the binding, so when re-fretting such guitars we have to trim the ends of the frets.
Attachment 192417
For some odd reason—I am truly not sure why—the Luigi Embergher shop used bar frets on their instruments for the life of the shop into the 1950s even (under his disciples). Perhaps it was their traditional way to do it or just stubbornness.
Both, I'd guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Garber
Tradition! Now get off my lawn.
Sometimes when you have those six, thousand-foot coils of brass in the back room from 1922, you’re gonna keep using them.
What I don’t get is who got the idea to leave the wine down cellar for more than a month or two?
Well, I'll work on 'em. But don't expect a rush job or a bargain price.
Totally off topic but being in the wine business: They made the wine for the year and noticed that the wine at the end tasted better. When they had a surplus and held it longer, it tasted better still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard500
Now back to mandolins.
Best thing I've read here in a while!Quote:
Originally Posted by rcc56