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Thread: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

  1. #1
    Celtic Strummer Matt DeBlass's Avatar
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    Default Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    This is spinning off from the "playing for tips" thread.
    Like a few of the posters on that thread, I got laid off a while ago (two years in Feb) and have been relying on temp work and music gigs to keep body and soul together while I search for the possibly mythical "day job." It happens to a lot of folks these days, and on the bright side, I finally have the time/desperate need to focus on my music career.

    A few posters in the other thread talked about bypassing the traditional venues and creating performance opportunities. I thought it would be interesting and possibly helpful if we collected some of the ideas and discussed what worked/what didn't, without hijacking that thread.
    If I call my guitar my "axe," does that mean my mandolin is my hatchet?

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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    what worked for me in the past was hiding in amongst a bunch of others in medieval costume and keeping my head down as i played - too shy to go solo. but if i were to go it alone and i were back in the states, i'd select music from someone like stephen foster or do a selection of beatles or broadway musical tunes and play just those - create a theme and stick to it (with changes in costume, as required and a sign saying what sort of music i was playing, propped up behind the collection tin.)

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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    I know that in my neck of the woods churches are always looking for guest 'alternative' musicians (non-piano/organ).
    The pay for a Sunday morning's work can be pretty good (averages $80 here).
    I might suggest creating a website and a 'one-sheet' about yourself showing your musical strengths and styles and how they would appeal to a broad range of denominations and faiths and get that info (along with some strong references) to all of the churches in your area.
    Oh, and public radios stations, park systems, and local government entities often need musicians for community events...Be sure to include those folks in your distribution.
    One final thing: Reputation, References and Attitude are KEY. Take it from someone who works on the hiring side of this equation.
    Last edited by Ed Goist; Dec-30-2010 at 9:53am. Reason: added 'one final thing'
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    Work in Progress Ed Goist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Matt, here's something you can do immediately...Contact all of the 'First Night' organizers in your area and see if they have any entertainment openings or emergency cancellations they need to fill for Friday night. If they do, the overworked organizer will be frantic to fill the spot...trust me on this!
    First Night events are usually decently funded by sponsors, and as a result they pay fairly well. Moreover, I am sure that they would love to have a 'Celtic Strummer' performing at one of their venues!
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    Registered User Jon Hall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Matt

    In an effort to supplement my income I began teaching guitar and mandolin lessons at a local music store. This has worked out well for me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    There's a "Scene" and then there's purpose.
    It's easy to create the scene, if you have others to jam with. Some folks are keen to jam all day, every day and all night. They'd be your core stock.


    Otherwise, i've been entertaining the idea of music therapy for the elderly and infirmed.
    Not so much for the money, but i have faith i'll be compensated.
    Like many of us, Nursing Homes were amoung my first gigs. I feel that tug, again.

    If you want your career to flourish, it looks like you half to have a champion, or a sponsor of sorts. It comes off like bragging if you don't. There's alot of folks trying it on there own, and 99% of the time, something suffers. If you're good at sales, your picking may be taking a back seat. If your good at pickin, you're probably not out there selling.
    And of course the ideal situation would be to have multiple champions competing for you. Then are you wise enough to pick the right one?

    Goooooood thread.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    If you're relying on solo perfromance, this restricts your opportunities. Unless you're Willie Nelson or Jackie Evanko (?), making it as a solo performer will be slim pickins. But then, your blues chops will develop.

    I've found that diversifying your interests and capacities is a very good way to increase your playing opportunites. Your best bet--if you want to work--is to take up bass and drums. Other possibilities:

    Organize your own house concerts--collaborate with a few friends and put on a show

    Play country or rock music (not recommended)

    Marry a rich woman

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    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    NOTHING!!! I've had it! I'm switching to banjo!










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    Destroyer of Mandolins
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Your mileage will vary wildly, but in years past I made a nice supplementary living playing for:

    Churches (Like Ed, I used to get $100 a week)

    Nursing and retirement homes (they usually have entertainment budgets that no one even knows about)

    Campgrounds (bored retirees in $100,000 Winnebagoes will spend money for a Saturday night's music)

    All three of those have something in common. They have money no one thinks to ask for. Nursing homes especially, since it's fairly easy to exploit the guilt of someone who has dumped their parents off. It makes them feel better to know Dad's having a good time. They often even have an 'entertainment director' whose job it is to spend the cash, but people come in and volunteer their time without even checking first.

    Back in '78 I made those rounds and earned $2,000 - $3,000 a year. What's that in today's money, $8,000 - $10,000 or so? And the church pay added another $5000 or so. Back then I earned four bucks an hour at the factory, so I basically doubled my income on the weekends. I was a lot younger then and able to keep up the pace, but it wasn't a bad dollar.

    I should add that the $100 a week from the church was for being the full-time organist and choir director, not for plucking a couple of tunes on the mandolin. And of course, it was a sizable church.
    Last edited by Tim2723; Dec-30-2010 at 12:15pm.
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    Organize your own house concerts--collaborate with a few friends and put on a show

    Play country or rock music (not recommended)
    Hey, i could make George Thorogood look like a schoolgirl, but only for couple of minutes. I get tired. Then i get sleepy. Not good for a Rockar to be asleep by ten.

    Yep, pas me a banjar too.

    Good stuff there Tim,
    That's sort of the reason i quit the nursing homes. (aside from my Grand passing)
    The home manager said that if i had a duo or more he'd pay, but not a solo?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Banjer is great, btw--it's what most folks want to hear from me when I perform solo.

    Other possibilities of hiring out:

    Acquire a pro sound system and run sound for local bands

    Lease your personal space as rehearsal space for bands seeking such

    If you are footloose and fancy free, go out on tour with other bands

    Of course, give lessons


    Folk music is not the most lucrative market--no one gets rich playing contra dances. But if you are hellbent on playing folk music, the bedpan circuit is a regular means of income. I was an activities director in a local facility for a couple of years--a job I took so that I could play music all day. You will need to sing, however, for maximum entertainment. If there is a choice between a mandolin instrumentalist, and a person who will lead others in song--even a capella--the latter will be more successful, for a variety of reasons.

    Sidenote: when I was working in this capacity, I had the good fortune to be working under an interim regional director, who understood the value of what I was doing and let me hire a fourth staffperson--for which I ran an advertisement for a "musician"--some of the best musicians in town responded to my ad, which really showed me what "the scene" was like here. Some of the best players in town are in bands that I play in--they are scuffling for gigs too.
    Last edited by catmandu2; Dec-30-2010 at 1:38pm.

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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    In the past, a group I played with would be less active in the winter season, we found a fire hall out in the country and set up a monthly gig, we would have a different guest group each month, we would each do 2 sets. The door would pay the room rent, then we would split the rest with the guest band. Food was provided by the women's auxilary so they benefitted from the food sales and our audience got fed. Having a steady monthly gig through the slow season gave us something to fill in around. We built a pretty solid regular audience.
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Some thoughts on what's worked for me. And let me state up front, that while I make a "good second income" from music -- over $15K annually -- I couldn't live on what I make; that's where civil service retirement comes in...

    1. Playing for seniors: I compiled a list of nursing homes, senior centers, assisted living facilities in my area, sent out a "mass mailing" to the recreation/activities directors, and started getting jobs almost immediately. Now I do 75-80 such jobs per year, playing familiar songs, sing-alongs, "pop" and folk from the 1930's-1950's. I charge $55-75 for an hour program, amplify myself with a little battery Fender Amp Can and a couple mikes, and play guitar, banjo, ukulele and harmonica (mostly).

    2. Working with libraries: this is less reliable, especially in the current economic climate, but still works. There are websites to which libraries turn for program suggestions; I list myself and a number of programs that may appeal to such venues, such as Civil War songs, songs of the railroad, etc. I get probably a dozen responses and inquiries per year. They often involve regional travel. A similar strategy works with historical societies and museums, although there direct mail is needed to make initial contacts.

    3. Get a website, or at minimum a Facebook page. Compile an e-mail list of potential venues (as well as of "fans" once you get some, with a sign-up sheet at your gigs), and send out periodic e-mail schedules etc. (I do one weekly). Get a "snail mail" list on your computer, and send out calendar postcards -- print 'em three to a 8.5X11 sheet of cardstock at your local copy center, cut 'em up on a paper cutter, print labels and mail 'em every couple months or so. I have a mailing list of 300, mostly places that have booked me before and might again.

    4. Make arrangements to host an open mic (I know, I know, the "Playing for Tips" thread dumps on these, but the host person is the one who generally gets paid by the club). You'll need a PA, some expertise in running it, some contacts to generate performers and audience, and the willingness to give up your Wednesday nights for the next two years or more. Plus side: it gets your name out there -- "Club Exploit-O presents an open mic hosted by Matt DeBlass every Wednesday" -- and it's a steady gig, probably not paying a lot.

    5. Work in schools: your area may have a Young Audiences or similar group that brings music programs to schools. Not easy to get affiliated, but if you can scarf a copy of the current local-state "arts curriculum" or "social studies curriculum" requirements, you can build a program that fits one of the niches. Do they need to learn about "pioneer/homespun days"? Can you put together a program of "pioneer" music, emphasis on local styles/performers/composers, and market it? I've been doing a railroad songs program for 5th graders at a local school for the past dozen years; the kids I played for originally probably have their own kids now.

    These are some of the things that have worked for me in building what I immodestly call a "music career." Luckily, I've never had to pay my mortgage or buy my food with "music money"; it goes for my psychotic collection of instruments, and the related strings/picks/repairs. But it's not much different than any small business: study the market, identify the needs, determine which of those needs you can meet, market yourself in a targeted way, make contacts, develop "product loyalty," promote yourself. Oh, and treat it like a business: keep records, pay taxes, write off expenses, have decent tax/legal/accounting advice as needed.

    Good luck. I'll once again repeat my tired aphorism: "Music is a great mistress, but a lousy wife." Be prepared for a lot of ups and downs and disappointments, but remember, it's doing something you love to do -- and that's more than a lot of "jobs" can provide.
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    ... remember, it's doing something you love to do -- and that's more than a lot of "jobs" can provide.
    That's important for some of us more than others. A few years ago, one of my daughter's boyfriends--who is a painter and a drummer--was visiting. This prompted me to examine what I was doing, and quickly realized that I would rather be doing that than "working." Best move I've made in a long time.

    I was pursuing a master's degree in art history before I abandoned it for a more "practical" field of study. Bad move, it turns out.


    But if all of the above fails--start a reggae band http://www.facebook.com/pages/Chele-...4061033&vm=all

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    Celtic Strummer Matt DeBlass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Some very good ideas here, I like the idea of hitting up the nursing homes both from a financial standpoint and the feeling of being useful.
    I've done well on occasional gigs as a sideman (usually playing drums/percussion, which was my first instrument), although they're not nearly steady enough. One of the ideas I've had recently was to hook up with a wedding photographer and cross-promote a bit, having her recommend me if they couple is looking for music and vice-versa.
    I'm also working on building up a show based on local history and music from my home state (NJ) and planning to market it to parks, historical societies and libraries. I'm thinking that I may try to find a guitar player who's in the same desperate straits as I am, and work on a full-time duet, because, as mentioned above, it seems that it's easier to book a duo than a solo act.
    While I'm well aware of the frustrations and struggle that comes with trying to be a successful small-time musician, I think the times dictate that the only opportunities out there for a lot of us are the ones we can create ourselves.
    Maybe some of us from the Cafe should band together and create a touring mandolin orchestra, or a small-venue ensemble, we can call it the Mandolin Cafe Pot-Luck Parlor Pickers.
    If I call my guitar my "axe," does that mean my mandolin is my hatchet?

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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt DeBlass View Post
    Maybe some of us from the Cafe should band together and create a touring mandolin orchestra, or a small-venue ensemble, we can call it the Mandolin Cafe Pot-Luck Parlor Pickers.
    You're going to need air-fare for that. A more practical approach is to do this locally--craigslist is an excellent vehicle for building contacts. Probably should have mentioned this at the outset, but I assume it's common knowledge: for any aspiring working players seeking opportunities--craigslist is your BFF.

    You've got the right approach in diversifying, collaborating, cross-promoting, etc. I'm surprised that you don't find as much opportunity for drumming. I would bet that there are at least a couple of "seeking drummer" ads right now...not that all of these will amount to anything. But the more ads that you answer the greater will be your choices of course.

    I suggest paying a visit to your local music stores and getting your name on their referral lists for various instrument pedagogy. I'm sure you could pick up a couple of harp students.

    Another idea is to branch out into children's entertainment. There's much potential here, but it would entail elements perhaps not suitable for many--young repertoire, perhaps costumery, and again MUCH singing. I always aspired to having a "clown act" with my daughter and one of our miniature dachshunds just for fun, but we never progressed beyond and informal "act." Come to think of it, this was during a period when I was in a similar situation as you--trying desperately to come up with something creative to do for money. I acquired a unicycle--thinking that I couldn't go wrong with riding a uni while playing concertina...but riding a unicycle is very difficult, so I abandoned the uni and started joining bands instead. Frankly, the easiest gig is to sit on a comfy padded throne and keep time for the band...can be boring though. I've played a lot of gigs with some bands that I didn't particularly enjoy listening to, and this is definitely W O R K.

    Concerning the young repertoire, I find that this is not incompatible with a lot of folk music: kids love mandolins and concertinas, and all the old standards. When I get bored of that, I'll break out Garcia tunes or whatever. If you're an entertaining person and are inclined to this sort of performing (highly interactive), this shouldn't be a difficult niche. Business cards, and word of mouth; once one mother sees your stuff, you'll have automatic entree into a network and other gigs, just like that.

    One other thing regarding solo work--I find that creating visual interest helps a great deal. Folks like my button accordians because they're unusual. Hammered dulcimers always attract interest (but are inconvenient for performing). People generally like banjos--especially kids and older folks. I find that having easy volume and projection helps a great deal, too--one reason why banjos and accordians are my favorites for solo entertaining.
    Last edited by catmandu2; Dec-30-2010 at 4:11pm.

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    Registered User Dan Adams's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    I like the first Friday gig idea. We play for First Friday Art Wark in a gallery. It is the most people you'll ever play for at any given time, just a transient crowd that exchanges by the minute. We've also busked, retirement homes, local coffee shop, local brew pub, etc... My favorite was setting up in the gazebo in a neighboring community and playing on a Friday night. There are some opportunities for a band, but I don't know about solo, even though I found a cruise ship to possess a captive audience. But..., two of the band mates are retired at a 'reasonable' age, mid-50's, and I have a full time 'day job' so we can afford to set up and play for exposure, tips, etc... Dan
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Matt, I just re-checked your page and see you list yourself in Central Jersey. My friend, if I can make it on the North Circuit you should be cleaning up on the Central. You've got the Shore and the City in reach. Definitely hook up with a partner and play as a duo. South River Street in Hoboken is no place to play alone on a Saturday night. You're playing Irish? You should kill down there. There's a RA bar on every other corner. Brush up on Go Home British Soldiers and kick hard.
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    Default Re: Creating a "scene," what's worked for you?

    Cool thread.

    As for performance situations that are actually lucrative, look around your area for voids that seem marketable. Obviously, you want to do something that you actually dig, and not just be a money mercenary. Not that these would necessarily be a fit for other folks, but a couple of scenarios that've worked well for me:

    * My current duo does something that one might think would be common, but evidently not - we play a wide variety of instruments and an eclectic mix of "roots" music - old blues, old country, cool R&B/pop/rock, pretty much anything that we dig, and we put a lot of thought into choice of material. Great songs and diversity are the key; people seem to dig hearing tunes by Hank Williams, Mississippi Fred McDowell, The Beatles, Utah Phillips, Howlin' Wolf, Jimmy Webb, Gillian Welch, Joe South, Warren Zevon, Big Star, etc., as well as old traditional tunes - all within the same set. It's a very easy act to book and we do pretty well with the wages.

    * Exact opposite of the above - look for a very specific musical genre that's not well represented in your area. I don't live in Louisiana (standard fare there), but nobody around here was playing cajun/zydeco music, so some mates and I designed a band around that premise that worked constantly. We did the traditional standards from the repertoire, but also peppered it with edgier offshoots of the N'awlins/second line thing, such as covers by acts like The Meters and Little Feat. Because there was such a void in the area, the cajun dancing community followed us around all over town to bars and clubs, and booked us for parties and all sorts of events.

    So - look for voids and create a niche'.


    Lots of good suggestions have been made as to teaching. In addition to the usual one-on-one approach: Summer group classes for children are pretty common. These often take place in morning or early afternoon hours, which are typically difficult hours for working musicians to book. Some music schools offer a "School of Rock" program, where the leader's responsibility is to turn a bunch of kids into a band and have 'em go test the waters at a real live music venue. If you have an idea for a workshop course of study (for example, a class on arranging), many music schools and stores will take your idea on if it's well presented and looks attractive to potential clients. This is a lot of work - plenty of prep and thought involved.


    The next thing I'll mention is something I haven't done... and I'll preface by sheepishly admitting that I don't have a decent home recording system (all my recording gets done at studios) - BUT - I'm asked now and then to create music for short independent films of all sorts, and folks have budgets for these projects. I don't currently possess the technology for such, so I have to turn the work down, which is absolutely ridiculous on my part, and this needs to change sooner than later.


    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2
    I've found that diversifying your interests and capacities is a very good way to increase your playing opportunites. Your best bet--if you want to work--is to take up bass and drums.
    Right on. For those that want to work 'til they drop - be a bass player that actually plays bass like a bass! Be a solid bassist that also SINGS, and there's more work available than can get done. Bass is a really good choice for pickup gig work, because the gear, tuning, and maintenance considerations typically border on being fairly minimal.

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