A Bridge too far

[dusty miller]

Having this issue on two of my mandolins, the fixed bridge tilting forward. What would cause this? I change strings one at a time and only slightly rest my palm near the bridge, I don't really rest my hand there. Any insight?

[Ken Willms]

Just use both hands and pull the bridge saddle back towards the tailpiece.
Then check intonation.

The bridge is not fixed so intonation cabe adjusted by moving it back or forward.

[dusty miller]

It's a Michael Kelly in this picture and my other one with this issue is a Kentucky. I thought or it looks like to me that they are fixed bridges. Looks like they are stuck on there to me but I could be wrong.

[Stephen Perry]

Have to burp the top of the bridge ("saddle" in the popular nomenclature) back towards the tailpiece regularly.

Putting on high quality bridges can help, too. As well as not making the notches deep, and lubricating them. Regardless, you're going to need to burp that sucker regularly!

[Steve Sorensen]

You can loosen up all the strings a little -- maybe 6 to 8 half-turns of the tuners. Also mark the current position of the bridge feet on both sides with a little Painter's Tape (stick it to your shirt a couple of times to reduce tack. Make little pencil marks to show the front and back of the foot.

At this point you should be able to move the bridge from it's current position. Might be slightly stuck to the top finish, but should not be glued.

Now, see if you can pull the bridge back into an upright position. Bridge and saddle should be perpendicular to the top . . . perhaps even a slight bit of backward tilt towards the tail AND the base of the bridge should be flush with the surface across both feet.

Tune up the strings and check for intonation at the 12th fret. If the octave at the 12th fret is higher than the open note, the bridge is too close to the nut; if the note is lower then the bridge is too far back. Move the bridge foot backwards or forwards until both the open and octave at the 12 fret are the in tune.

Good luck!
Steve

[dusty miller]

Perfect, thanks for the information!

[amowry]

Yes, you probably just need to make a practice of tugging the saddle backwards occasionally. Many saddles have holes for the posts that are unnecessarily large, and this makes it easier for the saddle to tip forward.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'd certainly check if the 2 posts are not bent forward as well.Remove the bridges after marking the position,remove the top saddle & see if the posts aren't bent. The bridges on both my mandolins lean forwards very,very slightly under string tension,but nothing like that,
Ivan

[AlanN]

Yeah, that's some severe lean. I regularly check the tilt to make sure it's straight up. I do this by holding the instrument up to eye level, closing one eye to inspect. Then, I flip the instrument over (so bridge is closest to floor) and do the same. You'd be surprised to find that a bridge which looks good facing up does not look so good facing down. Go ahead, try it....

I remember at IBMA one year, Gilchrist took my Gilchrist and gave it the burp, with no loosening of the strings. I darn near had kittens...

[Nevin]

A little plumbers (teflon) tape on the threads of the adjusters can tighten things up a bit.

[pfox14]

Are the saddle support posts loose? Or bent? The base of the bridge seems to be sitting at the correct angle, but the upper part/saddle is leaning, so I would think the support posts are not seated correctly or are bent or loose.

[dusty miller]

It does seem to me that the base of the bridge is sitting perfectly, where it should be and the posts are bent. The upper post more than the lower. The nut on the lower post is flush with the top of the bridge so you don't see any of the threads on that side. Not sure if I will be able to bend that back properly. New bridge I guess is in order and a constant check of the lean angle. Any suggestions?

[David Houchens]

I have seen thumb wheels with the hole so chamfered that there was only one complete thread inside. Also some that were just plain sloppy on the post. Check for wobble at the thumb wheel. Also if its been like this for a while you might need to true up the saddle surface that sits on the wheel.

[dusty miller]

Thanks David, I'll check that out. My Kentucky is in the shop and with this bridge problem I'm left with pickin' my Fender mandolin and it's big bluegrass tone and playability. Sounds and plays just like a Gibson, NOT.

[Tom Haywood]

Just about all of them have a tendency for the saddle to lean forward from time to time, especially when you change strings and tighten them up. So you have to check it and straighten in back up. Just part of the routine. Odds are the posts are not bent - there is just some wiggle room in the holes. Loosen the strings a little, stand it up straight, tighten the strings. If it starts to lean forward, straighten it up with a little more tension on the strings. Adjust it as you tighten them up. Someone with experience can do this with the strings at full tension, but I've seen bridges get cracked that way by inexperienced hands.

[Stephen Perry]

Good post, good wheels. Can sometimes fudge with stock pieces and a tap etc. Just make it no flex. A cheat is solid spacers slid down on the posts.

[eadg145]

From the photo it looks like the issue is indeed with the posts and not the bridge feet. Still I'd like to share a little trick I developed for string-change time. I typically change half of the strings at a time, first the bass side and then the treble side. This way I can wipe down the fingerboard. Well, a by-product of this technique is I need to carefully watch the angle of the bridge and even "burp" it sometimes. My trick is to take an empty paper envelope from a string and check all four corners of the bridge to ensure good contact. I shouldn't be able to slide the paper under any corner if it's just right. This has been very handy for me. Does anyone else do this?

[Killian King]

Talk about a timely discussion. I just noticed this on my KM900 a few days ago.

Tune up the strings and check for intonation at the 12th fret. If the octave at the 12th fret is higher than the open note, the bridge is too close to the nut; if the note is lower then the bridge is too far back. Move the bridge foot backwards or forwards until both the open and octave at the 12 fret are the in tune.

Good luck!
Steve

Do I need a better tuner than the mini planetwaves headstock variety to check this?

Thanks

[dusty miller]

Talk about a timely discussion. I just noticed this on my KM900 a few days ago.



Do I need a better tuner than the mini planetwaves headstock variety to check this?

Thanks

I would think that tuner would work just fine. Although I am not familiar with it.

[Killian King]

It's definitely something I will have to tinker with a bit. I think my bridge was more tilted than the one in your photo. I adjusted it a bit and it's definitely better now. Maybe one more slight tweak to get the intonation a bit closer.

Thanks to everyone on this thread. Very helpful.

[Bertram Henze]

What would cause this? I change strings one at a time and only slightly rest my palm near the bridge, I don't really rest my hand there.

Changing strings one at a time slows down the process but can't prevent it. The one string you're changing tugs at the saddle, and the other seven strings "try" to hold it in place but are elastic after all, so they give for a grillionth of an inch. And so on. After several rounds of restringing, those grillionths add up to something visible.

I lubricate each saddle slot before putting on the new string, that helps a little (but I have a bone saddle, don't know how ebony would react).

[briankwood]

Having this issue on two of my mandolins, the fixed bridge tilting forward. What would cause this? I change strings one at a time and only slightly rest my palm near the bridge, I don't really rest my hand there. Any insight?

It looks like a sloppily made bridge. The steel posts may not be perpendicular to the bridge, or the holes ithat capture the upper part of the bridge are too big. I've had that happen too, and I fitted a new bridge to solve it.

[A-board]

Wow, talk about timely. I've recently noticed the same issue on my Eastman 615. In my case it really appears that posts are bent. I've noticed I'm getting a bit of new buzz also. The suggestions appearing here are extremely helpful. I guess it's time to play mechanic.

[dusty miller]

Wow, talk about timely. I've recently noticed the same issue on my Eastman 615. In my case it really appears that posts are bent. I've noticed I'm getting a bit of new buzz also. The suggestions appearing here are extremely helpful. I guess it's time to play mechanic.

I really thought my posts were bent too by the look of it but turns out the holes they sit in are bigger and the top just started leaning forward. Hopefully your issues are as simple as mine were. I never knew to check the bridge during string changes to prevent this from happening. Good luck with yours.

[Stephen Perry]

This thread points out both the importance of a finely made bridge and of maintenance thereof.

Fiddles have it worse, and fiddlers learn to constantly keep that bridge upright. Same reasons.

My suggestion is to put on a high quality bridge, make sure the notches aren't very deep and are lubricated well, and maintain it. Can install the bridge with a slight backwards tilt. That helps a bit and may even make the instrument sound better.

Fixes for a cheaper bridge are entirely feasible. Sold spacers instead of wheels will really make a difference.