Measurements of Mike Marshall's cello nut and bridge

[Newmexmandoboy]

I am coming into an Eastman cello and I've read all about the string spacing issues with this instrument. Mike Marshall was nice enough to provide me a tracing of his nut and bridge. I added a ruler, and the following is the result.

[mrmando]

Yeah, if you can get your Eastman set up this way, it will make a world of difference. You'll still have the neck profile to contend with.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Silk purse, sow's ear come to mind...

[mrmando]

To some extent that's true. But the factory setup on the Eastman cello is bloody awful, and respacing the nut and bridge is well worth it IMHO.

When I tried Mike's Monteleone I was pleasantly surprised to note that it felt a lot like my Andersen...

[Newmexmandoboy]

Yeah, I realize that the Eastman 'cello doesn't get the best reviews, but it seems like the most 'affordable' way to get into the cello. I plan to use it for a couple years before I can upgrade. I would like to do everything I can to get it to be the best it can be, which is why I plan to change the nut.

The forum search had come up with several threads about measurements on MM's 'cello, so I thought the picture above might be of some use to people in the future.

Btw, MrMando, I ordered a few sets of strings from emando.com. I only got confirmation from paypal, and not emando.com. If that's your site, did you get the order?

Thanks.

jgw

[Mandobar]

The Eastman without fixing the nut and bridge is almost unplayable. The design is bad. I am playing the Mowry and a Trillium now and have consigned my Eastman to a friend who has a dealership. I play the Mowry just about every day. I hardly touched the Eastman and as Martin said, the neck is also something you need to deal with. These are designed as archtop guitars, not as mandocellos.

[Marty Jacobson]

This a nice confirmation, thanks for sharing.

[Newmexmandoboy]

The Eastman without fixing the nut and bridge is almost unplayable. The design is bad. I am playing the Mowry and a Trillium now and have consigned my Eastman to a friend who has a dealership. I play the Mowry just about every day. I hardly touched the Eastman and as Martin said, the neck is also something you need to deal with. These are designed as archtop guitars, not as mandocellos.

Well, I think I'm managing to play it. Without ever having played any other cello's I don't know any better. I can certainly sense that the spacing isn't always ideal, but I think it might get me by for a couple years. I'm 1/2 way through the prelude for cello suite #1. I'm treating this piece essentially as a test for whether cello is in my future. Along with Gator Strut

[Don Grieser]

Did you figure out what the music is on the other side of the sheet?

Weber makes some cellos with 1 3/4 nuts too. I'm not sure what they're thinking. 1 1/2 is plenty wide.

[Bernie Daniel]

To some extent that's true. But the factory setup on the Eastman cello is bloody awful, and respacing the nut and bridge is well worth it IMHO.

When I tried Mike's Monteleone I was pleasantly surprised to note that it felt a lot like my Andersen...

Have you ever posted a picture of your Anderson? If not a good idea to do so?

[Bernie Daniel]

I am coming into an Eastman cello and I've read all about the string spacing issues with this instrument. Mike Marshall was nice enough to provide me a tracing of his nut and bridge. I added a ruler, and the following is the result.

That is a nice little bit of information you supplied there -- thanks much!

[wildpikr]

Did you figure out what the music is on the other side of the sheet?

Weber makes some cellos with 1 3/4 nuts too. I'm not sure what they're thinking. 1 1/2 is plenty wide.

It looks like one of his fingerbuster exercises...but I could be mistaken...

[Greg Stec]

A friend of mine bought an Eastman m'cello for the same reason: I gotta get a mandocello. He had a luthier put a new nut and bridge on it that were more in line with a vintage Gibson m'cello and better strings The work left about an inch of fretboard above the low C strings. It played OK, kinda. He eventually sold it and took the loss.

My flippant two cents: If you *REALLY* want one that bad take out a loan and get a better m'cello. Assuming you are gainfully employed, that is. And it will be worth it.

[Bernie Daniel]

A friend of mine bought an Eastman m'cello for the same reason: I gotta get a mandocello. He had a luthier put a new nut and bridge on it that were more in line with a vintage Gibson m'cello and better strings The work left about an inch of fretboard above the low C strings. It played OK, kinda. He eventually sold it and took the loss.

My flippant two cents: If you *REALLY* want one that bad take out a loan and get a better m'cello. Assuming you are gainfully employed, that is. And it will be worth it.

Another approach is to slim down the neck and fret board of the Eastman-- or you can make a new mandocello fret board and then just slim the neck to match. I think the Eastman is a decent box - -but the neck and fret board are not serious.

Or from my experiences with converting arch top guitars to mandocellos I can assure you that it can be done but it is not a venture for the faint of heart.

Here, for example, is a Gibson L-50 guitar that I converted to a K-50 mandocello. It was a lot of work but the materials and supplies were something like $200 or so -- estimated prices (fret board blank with slots and sanding ($35), fret wire ($5), binding ($8), tuners ($60), bridge ($30), nut ($5), tail piece ($40), & strings $12) -- the rest was labor.

But it's a GREAT mandocello in the end.

[Greg Stec]

Another approach is to slim down the neck and fret board of the Eastman-- or you can make a new mandocello fret board and then just slim the neck to match. I think the Eastman is a decent box - -but the neck and fret board are not serious.

Or from my experiences with converting arch top guitars to mandocellos I can assure you that it can be done but it is not a venture for the faint of heart.

Here, for example, is a Gibson L-50 guitar that I converted to a K-50 mandocello. It was a lot of work but the materials and supplies were something like $200 or so -- estimated prices (fret board blank with slots and sanding ($35), fret wire ($5), binding ($8), tuners ($60), bridge ($30), nut ($5), tail piece ($40), & strings $12) -- the rest was labor.

But it's a GREAT mandocello in the end.

A friend of mine bought an L-50 already converted to mandocello some years back. Very nice. A luthier in know converted a bunch of old Harmony archtops to mandocellos a few years back. Sales were hot. They flew out the shop.

[Bernie Daniel]

A friend of mine bought an L-50 already converted to mandocello some years back. Very nice. A luthier in know converted a bunch of old Harmony archtops to mandocellos a few years back. Sales were hot. They flew out the shop.

Do you or your friend know any details on the L-50 conversion or the Harmony conversions? It would be great to compare notes!

[Greg Stec]

Do you or your friend know any details on the L-50 conversion or the Harmony conversions? It would be great to compare notes!

Sri, I have no details. The L50 conversion looked to me to be a very straight n easy bridge-nut-tuners conversion. The instrument was in fair condition. It had been a well-loved guitar before the change. There were (maybe still are?) one or two small popped seams on the back. It still plays well. I don't know of any neck resets, but I would expect onefor guitars that age (late 40's).

[Michael Richmond]

A luthier in know converted a bunch of old Harmony archtops to mandocellos a few years back. Sales were hot. They flew out the shop.

Any idea who the luthier was?

[Newmexmandoboy]

I went ahead and refiled the bridge and made a new nut for the Eastman using the Mike Marshall dimensions. Below are before and after shots. I also am using the "normal gauge" cello strings from emando.com (NFI) instead of the ones that ship on the instrument. The nut isn't especially pretty and could be improved, but it does the trick right now. I'm willing to guess the string spacing is within 1mm of Mike's. Could be 2mm. Don't know for sure. The action feels very close to being correct.

It plays WAY better now. With this setup this completely feels like it is a good starter cello.

The nut is 1.75" as compared to the 1.5" standard cello nut. You can see there is about an extra 1/8" on either side. I suppose a neck job could be done, but I'm willing to wait on that.

Anyhow, I'm happy for now. Thanks for the input on this thread. I was waffling big time about whether I was going to buy it. But now I know. Actually, I probably knew as soon as I started filing the bridge

Before:


After:

[wildpikr]

What material did you use for the nut?

[Newmexmandoboy]

Bone.

[Bernie Daniel]

I think the approach you took on the Eastman makes good sense. You might realize some additional gains in "playability" from narrowing the neck but it is not a trivial thing to do.

Try to get you hands on an old Gibson K-model to get a perspective on that.

For comparison here is a pic of the head stocks of three mandocello (from guitar) conversions that I have made over the last couple of years.

The off-white band below the nut is a piece of paper 1.5" (36.75 mm) long.

Personally I think this is about the right range for a mandocello.

The Vega (center) conversion is the narrowest at the nut and I decided after that one I decided maybe that this was a tad too narrow to get a good string separation.

So on my last conversion (the Gibson) I went to a nut of about 1.6" (1 5/8").

I can't make up my mind if that was an improvement over the narrower Vega (1.5") or not -- both play easily and switching between them is no problem.

All are strung with J78's and none of the three instruments exhibit any significant buzz anymore so much of the problems with buzz and rattling I used to have on mandocellos was operator error I think.

The Epiphone (left) represents my attempt to minimize inter-course separations in favor of more inter-string separation. It plays fine but I have small "hicups" when I pick it up after playing on of the other to mcellos. I may redo the nut on that one.

[Greg Stec]

Any idea who the luthier was?

The luthier was/is Jeff Hostetter. He was in New Freedom, PA at the time, but now relocated to Florida. Orlando/Buena Vista area, I think.

[Bernie Daniel]

The luthier was/is Jeff Hostetter. He was in New Freedom, PA at the time, but now relocated to Florida. Orlando/Buena Vista area, I think.

Thanks for the info. Greg -- I go to Florida each winter maybe I'll try to try to find him.

What part of the country is your annual classical mandolin symposium that you attend this year - in Mpls-StP last year?

[mrmando]

Hi Bernie, CMSA 2014 will be in Portland, Oregon.