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Thread: a nice zither

  1. #51

    Default Re: a nice zither

    When I practice playing this zither, my IMAGINATION (and creativity, an attribute of my design engineering career) pops up and I think about making an instrument similar to the concert zither, except the accompaniement part only needs about 6 strings like a guitar (iwth a separate neck), and I could design a electro mechanical device, micro-processor controlled, which has one pin for each string & fret slots for the first 5 ot 7 fret position. A set of pedals (one chord per pedal) and the microprocessor will translate the contact of each pedal to a set of pins corresponding to a chord. This way, one can play melody and simply swipe the accompaniement strings to produce the right chord (as if there is a second guitar player). This device can be certainly used on a normal guitar so that one can play leads / melody along with chords without too much hassles. One just need to finger the frets for the melody on trebble strings and the lower strings (pressed down for proper chords by the device) can be plucked or strummed to produce the chord (selected by stepping on the proper pedal).

    WAY TOO MUCH FROM MY IMAGINATION but I am certain it is doable. And someone could file a patent for this design if it does not exist yet.

    Then I found something called the "autoharp" which has chord buttons !!!. I did some look up on it and watch a couple youtube video and understood how this chord mechanism works. Pretty simple.
    It looks like the easiest instrument to play (at least the strumming part, the melody part is kind of tricky but not that hard) while the concert zither is on the other end from the difficulty scale !!!
    This afternoon, I had a chance to see , touch and try one 21-chord auto harp, first time ever, and I strummed it so easily to some usual chord sequence, it sounds sweet.
    Oh Oh, MIAS ( musical instrument AS kicks in again), but I resist myself from buying that one.
    It has 36 strings and takes about 30 minutes to tune it.

  2. #52
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    Harp guitar...
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  3. #53

    Default Re: a nice zither

    Yes, I have seen these harp guitar photos. However, the harp strings are fixed at certain notes (no frets), probably bass notes.
    It's still better than none.

  4. #54
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    Quote Originally Posted by kkmm View Post
    I think about making an instrument similar to the concert zither, except the accompaniment part only needs about 6 strings like a guitar (with a separate neck)
    I would think a zither design with only 6 strings would prob include mainly bass notes. Hence the harp guitar. There were a bunch of variants on zithers that had melody strings and other strings arranged in chord groupings. And then, as you mention, there was the autoharp.
    Jim

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  5. #55

    Default Re: a nice zither

    Hmm... I can't resist the autoharp, so after seeing and playing one, I bid and won this one on eBay ( seller is a pawn shop, I think I am lucky here too to get a good deal). But let's wait and see when it arrives to my home.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=231127055586

    The strange thing is NO ONE bids this one except me. There are identical auto harp (same brand, same look) that had a few bids up to 150$ and bidding is still going on.

    I am still practicing the zither (and others such as guitars, piano, keyboards, mandolins as I do play gigs very often with them), but I am far away from being playing the zither well enough even just to show off to friends. I have to remove every other strings so the spacing is not too narrow, and tune the remaining string my own way (just to get a few chords to play).

    [ I just retired so I have plenty of time for this hobby ]

    This auto harp is the easiest instrument to play (if you already know strumming and chords names).

  6. #56
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    You got a good deal on that autoharp if it is in good shape. I think that is a fairly new one. I also have a 21 bar one but I found that the std button arrangement makes little sense for accompaniment of songs. For instance, the minor chords should be positioned near the relative major, for example Am should be near C. I remember moving the bars and also buying a few others -- you can get custom bars and buttons for chords they do not provide.

    I play a lot of tunes and songs in D and the relative minor chord missing is Bm so I think I ordered one of those.
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  7. #57

    Default Re: a nice zither

    Hi Jim,

    you are right about the chord buttons arrangement. I have done some research on the Web and found this arrangement which looks more logical:

    Ab----Bb7----F7---C7---G7---D7---A7
    --Eb-----Bb----F----C----G----D----A
    ----Cm-----Gm---Dm---Am---Em---E7---B7

    This is the first thing I will do, remove the chord bars, do some cleaning first (as it is dusty), then put the bars back to get the configuration above. Then, on a cheat sheet I will have to write down all the keys I can play with, something like:

    in C Major: C F G G7 Am Dm Em E7 A7 (can be used)
    in D Major: D G A A7 Em B7 (missing Bm, F#m)
    in G Major: G C D D7 Em Am B7 E7 (missing Bm)
    etc.....

    This will tell me quickly whether a song can be played with this autoharp or not.
    For example, I play many songs in F#m key to fit with with singer's voice, Gm is a bit stressing sometimes. F#m requires these missing chords: C#, Bm, so I have to avoid these songs.

    Most of the times, the X7-th chords can be substituted with X chord, so going forward and I may replace the X7-th chords with other chords I need more often, thus making the instrument more versatile.

  8. #58

    Default Re: a nice zither

    By the way, there is an Android Apps called "Real Guitar" that can be used on an Android tablet and the player can select the main key. It will show other corresponding chords and one can play it like an auto harp. It sounds good when plug into an amp.
    This mode should be called "auto harp".
    There is also a custom chord config for 7 chords total for each key. That's more than what a real auto harp can handle.
    The downside for the table is there is no touch sensitivity, no matter how soft or hard the finger sweeps the "strings", the volume is the same.

  9. #59
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    Actually I prefer to keep the upper two rows as-is and just have the relative minors on the third row. That way you have the 1-4-5 of each key in a nice compact triangle with the minor nearby.

    If I can dig out my autoharp I can show you how I have it set up. I actually used to play it a bunch in my old time band many moons ago. Great for Carter Family and the like.
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  10. #60

    Default Re: a nice zither

    Hi Jim,

    Is this is what you have done on your auto harp ?

    Eb--- Bb--- F---- C---- G---- D---- A
    F7--- C7--- G7--- D7--- A7--- E7--- B7
    Cm---Gm---Dm---Am-- Em---Ab--- Bb7

    This arrangement makes a lot of sense as they are arranged in 5-th.
    This also shows the Ab and Bb7 can be replaced by the Bm and F#m that I need.

  11. #61
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    Yeah, something like that. I will see if I can get my autoharp from my closet. Time to take a look. That last time I played it was for my daughter's 2nd grade class and she is in college now. I suppose it needs to be tuned, too.
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  12. #62

    Default Re: a nice zither

    Hi Jim,

    Yours must be a high quality one. I heard that new ones are built with lower quality than vintage ones. From what I read on the Web (in various place), the Rhythm Band (ChromAharp) is built better than the Oscar Smith. Again, I have to wait to see if it is good quality or not. Can't compare with the OS as I don't have one of these.

    About the string tuning on this harp (and on my concert zither), I use a small rigid tube to extend the handle lenght and therefore it's easier to get the string in tune (less force to turn the pin and the pin turns LESS with the same handle displacement.

    After going thru zither tuning (30 some strings) , mandolin and guitar string tuning are piece of cake.

  13. #63
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    I guess I bought it in the late 1970s -- it was still plywood but built pretty solidly. I think I got a star tuner from a piano shop which worked better than the wrench that came with it.
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  14. #64

    Default Re: a nice zither

    Mine is without a tuner wrench !!! I will have to buy one after measuring the (square) pin size.
    Maybe the zither tuner (for rectangular pin heads) could work temporarily. However, if it does not grip the pin head tightly, I will not make any turn for fear this will damage the pin heads.
    I will be on 8 days vacation starting from tomorrow, so I won't see it until Friday next week.

  15. #65

    Default Re: a nice zither

    You have a "Konzertzither" This is a "folk" instrument and regularly played in the German speaking word. It came to fame in the classic movie "The Third Man". Go to you tube for more information.

  16. #66
    Registered User Petrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    Here's a zither up on eBay recently.

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    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Franz-Schwar...s/181438668075

  17. #67

    Default Re: a nice zither

    I have decided to put the concert zither on the side (still in very decent condition) and start playing the auto harp instead.
    So far, I bought 4 auto harps from eBay and the cheapest one turns out to be the best sounding one as it is built with solid wood. I sold the other 3 fairly quickly on local CraigList (after doing works on them to ensure they play well).
    It took me only 4 weeks to be able to play a dozen songs (melody and accompaniement) and now almost any tune I know.
    The concert zither is really hard due to the narrow string gap. I cannot even play harmony strings cleanly. This nice concert zither is now part of my instrument collection, the only one for display only.

  18. #68
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    When you are ready to move up in your AAS: check out Orthey Dulci-Harps. A friend of mine is an excellent autoharp player and he plays one of these. It sounds like a grand piano.
    Jim

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  19. #69

    Default Re: a nice zither

    I take a look at these Orthey Dulci-Harps. I have no doubt they have highest quality. For now I will continue to practice with the "el-cheapo" one I got. It was sold by someone (on eBay) who know nothing about these instruments and that's why it's cheap (15$ + 25$ shipping !!!). Probably he just want to get rid of it.
    I performed this instrument to various groups of friends and all said it sound wonderful. Now I have a dream for Orthey Dulci-Harps.
    The last couple days, I look at some of the "lever harps" on local CL, and felt the urge to buy one but I need to control myself. My wife told me why not buying a violin (since I am playing mandolins and she love violin sound, remembering what I did with it about 25 years ago), I still can't decide.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    European zithers are very cute

    I love the ethnological developments of these instruments across the world. The techniques are very different across the different zithers of course. I tried learning lever harp, but just wasn't getting enough practice time.

    In the end, I opted for a horizontal zither - here's mine - a bit larger than a laptop kantele or German autoharp:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuErovibtJk

    It's made of aged rosewood; moveable bridges. It's native base key is diatonic, although you can play atonal music and achieve microtones easily. I love its open resonance.

  21. #71

    Default Re: a nice zither

    These "horizontal zither" are called Gu-Zheng, I grew up see it played all around. But it's not for the kind of western music I am used to. To my understanding, it is tuned based on a chosen pentatonic scale (C / D / E / G / A for example OR all the black keys on a piano !!!). It could be re-tuned to different keys but not practical to change key during a live session.
    The concert zither can play music written for piano and that makes it attractive, but it's too difficult for me. I love the autoharp, so easy to play.

  22. #72
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    Default Re: a nice zither

    What kind of 'western' music are you into?

    Music like the Moonlight Sonata; Ave Maria, or Mario Super Bros are Justin Bieber are very simple to transcribe onto the gu-zheng zither.

    The base scale can be D major, C, G, F, Bb, Eb with skilled performers switching between major and minor keys. Some atonal pieces and microtonal pieces have been written for guzheng. I see what you mean: how can you get a full chromatic scale from a 5 string octave, which repeats over 4 octaves?

    The moveable bridges are actually moved during concert. Listen to this piece:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mGM2qhl680

    during which, the player moves the bridge. This is standard practice during performance. She was playing in California recently ...

    So say the strings are tuned in pentatonic D major: D, E, Fsharp, A, B.
    By bending the strings (left string side of the bridge is partially depressed, whilst right hand plucks), you also add:

    D sharp/Eflat; F natural, G, Bflat, C.

    The missing Csharp, Gsharp are also attained by further increasing the string pressure of the left side, or simply by moving the bridges, but that's only of interest for players. Microtones are achieved by subtle left hand string pressure, and arpeggios are completely flawlessly executed - even a 4 year old cannot screw up an arpeggio on a guzheng, since the whole four octaves are practically strung in pitch to make it impossible, at least in the simple major keys.

    It is this peculiar glissandi technique, combined with polychromatic techniques of the left hand playing gives the guzheng zither its strong oriental coloration and tonal complexity. It is an instrument which is really necessary to have good lessons for. I guess I'm fascinated by it because I never grew up nor ever saw one being played live until a few years ago. When I as learning piano in college, variations in note pitch was impossible - notes were essentially always the same pitch, with very little tone colour (compared to a flute, or guitar). There's something beautiful about plucked string instruments with wood resonance; piano keys and hammers don't quite do it for me, but then, this may be my fascination with orientalism

  23. #73

    Default Re: a nice zither

    The Gu-Zheng is a special and interesting instrument. Tuned in pentatonic scale but intermediate notes can be achieved by putting more pressure on the strings with left hand fingers. I do play the mono-chord (single string instrument) and it can play ANY note in an octave including microtonal notes (such as a note between F and F#). This instrument plays using harmonic technique. Typically the string is tune in C and can produce (from low to high) C, G, E, G C as harmonic notes. All other notes are obtained by bending, with the left hand, the "whammy bar" which the string is attached to.

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