Thoughts on an octave mandolin

[PastorDoug]

I am considering adding an octave mandolin. Love the sound but never played one. Any advice or thoughts on ease of playing both, models, etc?

[Chip Booth]

I think the Brock guitar shaped OM is one of the industry standards.

[belbein]

Pastor Doug: I think "ease of playing" is hard to answer. It's easier than bagpipes, and less annoying, but harder than a kazoo. If you're a guitar player, then the size of the fretboard, and the tension of the strings will be much more familiar. If you're a mandolin or fiddle player, it will seem like the reaches between frets are astronomical. But if you play fiddle or mandolin, of course the tunings are the same so your understanding of the geography of the fretboard will apply directly.

I personally fell in love with my Octave. The first one I ever played was the one I built. I ended up giving it away to my son, and I still think it's my favorite instrument of my banjos, guitars, mandolin and mandola. If you like full, vibrant, bass-y sounds, you will love Octave mandolin.

As for models, here's my impression. The variations are very similar to the models with mandolin, except that I don't think there's an "F" model. I'm with Chip: I absolutely LOVE Brock's GBOM, which is why I'm trying to build a guitar-bodied octave mandolin now. But other standard models are the flat-top/flat-bottom Irish style Bouzouki/Octaves, and then the "A" style arch tops. If there are other models, I'm confident someone will point it out.

I am certain that you will like Octave, since you asked the question, so here's my suggestion. Nearly every advertiser of used instruments on this site sells the Trinity College OM. Buy a well preserved TC O ctave--they're pretty cheap and are decent instruments, if not brilliant. If you don't like it, no big investment. If you do like it, then either it's all you need as a second instrument back-up for your mandolin/banjo/bagpipes and you don't need anything more ... OR ... you have a beach instrument and can figure out what style OM you want to spend real money on.

[doc holiday]

Fletcher Brock's octave are killer & I've heard lots of them in the hands of great musicians. Michael Heiden recently built a batch & they are bound to be wonderful too

[Ryk Loske]

My wife has a Weber Bridger A D hole style OM that is wonderful, she started out on a Michael Kelly F style ff hole and found that the OM sound charmed her.

What others have said .. coming from mandolin there is the stretch to get used to … from guitar it's just the tuning. John McGann wrote a very good tutor for the OM.

Ryk

[JEStanek]

If I had more money, I would go Oldwave Guitar Shaped OM or have Jack Spira make one. With Less money, the Trinity College is a great way to start.

Jamie

[dang]

I have one of those Blueridge tenor guitars (BR-60T) that I replaced the CGDA strings with heavier strings and tuned it GDAE. It is single string, but it is also 10x cheaper then the fletcher brock or many others I was considering. It has a great sound and is relatively easy to play mandolin tunes on, but the spacing is too much for the 4 fingered chop chord. I have since learned new chord structures and have added those to my mandolin playing to improve that also.


Absolutely no financial interest but there is a similar one in the classifieds that I would jump on at that price, and then restring with heavier strings and tune it in GDAE.


A thread on string gauges that you might never find because of the spelling of the title...

[tmsweeney]

You might want to peruse the CBOM section, you'll get more than opinions on octaves than you bargained for, caution: few who enter ever make it out completely safe from the lure of the dark side.

[OldSausage]

They certainly do make f style carved top octave mandolins:

[allenhopkins]

Seconding several suggestions above: visit the CBOM (Cittern, Bouzouki, Octave, Mandola) Forum, where there is mucho info on octave mandolins. Consider an introductory Asian import such as Trinity College or Gold Tone, to see if the instrument fits your needs. If so, and if you want to step up, there are builders such as Petersen, Gypsy, etc. that have OM's you can purchase in the low four figures.

One consideration is scale length, which varies significantly for different makes and models. The Trinity College imports from Saga Music are at the short-scale end, while models that lean toward the "Irish bouzouki" type have longer scales. If you start off on an instrument like the Trinity College or Gold Tone, and then "graduate" to one like the Petersen, you'll find that the scale length and fret spacing increases.

And concerning "bouzoukis": most of the instruments sold to American mandolinists under that classification, are actually long-scale octave mandolins, not the original Greek instrument, which is strung and tuned differently. Irish musicians took Greek bouzoukis and tuned them as octave mandolins, which led to a new, though related, instrument called the "Irish bouzouki." So if you're looking for a longer-scale octave mandolin, there are Asian-built, and other, "bouzoukis" that will suit you.

[Mandobart]

Yes there are F-style OM's. Mine by Tom Jessen is my favorite instrument to play of all my OM's, mandolins, guitars and fiddles. Weber offers F style OM's as well (as illustrated above) although they'll run about 3 times the cost of one TJ builds.

The OM is almost guitar-like in versatility; being in the same range as the guitar. I play BG, blues, folk, Gypsy Jazz, classical, ITM, etc. on mine. It also is good for vocal accompaniment.

[Sweetpea44]

I have a 22" scale OM made by Doug Dieter -- I love it.

[John L]

I had one for awhile. Beautiful instrument, but the scale was up around 25". Would love to have another, but would definitely go shorter on scale. Down around 20-21".

[Capt. E]

I really enjoyed Sarah Jarosz playing hers this month at the Paramount here in Austin. It adds so much to the range of her music. She does play some guitar (with mandolin first and then a tenor banjo), but the Octave is so much better. Here's a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2f4b...6lE4wcWkT-9OQg

[Petrus]

I just got a weird idea ... I wonder if anyone has ever made a double-necked mandolin, with a long neck for octave and a short neck for regular mandolin. You know, like those double-neck electric guitars.

[Bertram Henze]

Ease of playing comes when you play what's easy on the OM
The longer scale length demands a different playing style - forget closed chords, prepare for either more pinky usage or more hand movement up and down the neck. You can afford to pick less - let the longer sustain of the instrument sing for you; left-hand ornaments (hammer-ons/pull-offs, rolls etc) become more effective with the longer sustain.

[Bertram Henze]

I just got a weird idea ... I wonder if anyone has ever made a double-necked mandolin, with a long neck for octave and a short neck for regular mandolin. You know, like those double-neck electric guitars.

Things like that are possible (I am playing with this guy on a regular basis, and he gets along well with his contraption); but since both instruments share one body, the question of sound balance becomes a more complicated one. Also, to make the combination worthwhile, you have to have a looper.

[JH Murray]

If you already play guitar, an easy way to 'try out' an OM is to switch the strings on a guitar around and create your own 4 string version. It lets you test drive the concept before investing in the model. I did this for a month before buying my Trinity College.

[Mandobart]

Ease of playing comes when you play what's easy on the OM
The longer scale length demands a different playing style - forget closed chords, prepare for either more pinky usage or more hand movement up and down the neck. You can afford to pick less - let the longer sustain of the instrument sing for you; left-hand ornaments (hammer-ons/pull-offs, rolls etc) become more effective with the longer sustain.

There are simple closed barre chords that work better on OM than on the mandolin, as you have more room for your fingers. Don Julin has just a couple in his book (see Chapter 6 of "Dummies", pgs 106 - 108 in my copy). There are a few other forms availabe. Of course, the high sustain ringing open chords are one of the coolest things about an OM and this gets minimized with closed chords.

[Bertram Henze]

barre chords

to fret 8 strings with one finger you have to have an iron hand or light strings. Since I have neither, that's outside my experience, but I would like to see it done on my 21" OM with gauges 54-36-26-15.

[catmandu2]

re: barre chords, and playing out of "barre" positions

Routine for me--on all the zouks and citterns, irrespective of scale length--requiring neither "iron hands" nor light gauge strings. Players develop requisite hand strength to execute desired technique, be it 24" SL CBOM or 42" SL doublebass (on which standard positions and double stops are much more demanding than any barre position on a CBOM--granted, they may be impractical on 26" SL zouk at the first couple of frets, etc, but not due to lack of hand strength, but rather fret spacing). Obviously mileage varies. You may not be a bassist, of course, but only to illustrate the standard physical demands of playing (any instrument) for desired technique

Check out some of the doublebass string gauges - http://baen.tamu.edu/users/rel/perso...ssStrings.html

[David Rambo]

Tom Jessen makes good quality "A" style octaves, also. Check out his web site for some of his builds. http://cricketfiddle.com/
He also makes some other unusual instruments, which hes hows on his site.

[John L]

Ease of playing comes when you play what's easy on the OM
The longer scale length demands a different playing style - forget closed chords, prepare for either more pinky usage or more hand movement up and down the neck. You can afford to pick less - let the longer sustain of the instrument sing for you; left-hand ornaments (hammer-ons/pull-offs, rolls etc) become more effective with the longer sustain.

I had an OM long enough to understand that a different approach is needed, but my next one will be shorter - say 21"

[Mandobart]

to fret 8 strings with one finger you have to have an iron hand or light strings. Since I have neither, that's outside my experience, but I would like to see it done on my 21" OM with gauges 54-36-26-15.

I barre my mandocello, C1 .066, C2 .032, G1 .046, G2 .020, D1 .032, D2.014, both A's .020.
My OM is easier with G1 .048, G2 .024, D1 .039, D2 .020, both A's .024, both E's .014.

I don't have an iron hand but I do have fairly large, fairly strong hands. Years of knuckle busting on motors and plumbing I guess.

Also seriously you should check out Tom Jessen's instruments. I've not found any finer for the price he charges. And his cases are a thing of functional beauty.

[tmsweeney]

I was looking at Tom Jessen's stuff, that octave F4 looks sweet

Didn't see any mandolas though