Zoom H2 as external microphone

[bratsche]

I have a Kodak Zi8 pocket sized HD video recorder which I selected specifically because you can use an external (stereo) microphone with it. Information all over the web assured me I could use my Zoom H2 as such a mic, and it seemed like a simple task. However, in my early experimentation, when used in this capacity it records only one channel loud and clear (and the sound qualityis much better than the camera's internal mic), but the other channel signal is very faint, just a step above inaudible.

My H2 records both channels perfectly well when used as a USB mic plugged into my computer. But I was hoping for something to give me more versatility with where I could record video with nice sound. I tried two different cords with the 1.8" plugs; same thing happens with both of them. I'm trying to rule things out to get at the problem, but am stumped. What could cause this?

bratsche

[Tom Wright]

First dumb question---are you sure you are using a tip/ring/sleeve stereo cable to connect between H2 and camera?
Second dumb question--did you select a simple stereo option for mic pattern on the H2?

[bratsche]

Tom, don't worry - your questions aren't quite as dumb as I am when it comes to electronics!

To your second question, yes.

But to the first question... No, I'm not sure at all. I used a cable with 1/8" or 3.5mm plugs, because they're what you're supposed to use, they're what I had on hand that were long enough to reach from camera to Zoom, and they fit. I don't know where they came from originally, they were just in my spare cords box.

However, I looked again, and the guy's video on YouTube that I watched to learn how to do this did say "stereo cable", however he only shows it already plugged in, so I can't see what the plugs look like. Not sure what you mean by "tip/ring/sleeve"? Not the RCA type, right? (it wouldn't fit right anyhow). Is it possible or likely that what I have seem to fit well, but aren't good for stereo? How would I know that for sure (other than it not working with my setup), and if so, what sort do I need? (Obviously I'm a dunderhead on this subject...)

Thanks,

bratsche

[Martin Jonas]

Tom, don't worry - your questions aren't quite as dumb as I am when it comes to electronics!

To your second question, yes.

But to the first question... No, I'm not sure at all. I used a cable with 1/8" or 3.5mm plugs, because they're what you're supposed to use, they're what I had on hand that were long enough to reach from camera to Zoom, and they fit. I don't know where they came from originally, they were just in my spare cords box.

3.5mm audio cables can be mono or stereo. Stereo ones (e.g. on most headphones) have three separate metal contact areas, i.e. two black plastic rings. Mono ones have only two contact areas, with one plastic ring separating them. Plugging a mono cable into a stereo connector such as that on the Zoom would explain your symptoms.

I use a Zoom H2n for all my audio recordings and it's a great little device. However, I use it as USB microphone rather than through the line out socket, so I can't offer any specific experience with your problem.

Martin

[bratsche]

Thank you Martin - that explained things very well! It turns out that the first cable I tried (just the right length) was indeed mono. I have another one much longer that is stereo, but it is male-female. So I tried it by connecting it with a shorter male-male one to get male-male, as I need, unwittingly rendering the whole thing mono again, because the shorter cable was mono. (Duh! Just not having any dumb luck today!!) But tomorrow, I will try pairing it with a longer one that is stereo (but unfortunately not quite long enough to work alone). Eventually, I'll probably buy one at eBay that is stereo, male-male, and just the right length for my setup!

bratsche

[almeriastrings]

Yes you do need a stereo male-male mini-jack with TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) configuration.

One thing to be aware of is that not all video recorders will be entirely happy with a line-level input into their 'external mic' sockets. These are typically designed for use with a consumer type self-powered electret microphone and will be expecting an input level in that range. If you feed a line level input in, beware of clipping (distortion). Not all offer much - if anything - in the way of attenuation, input impedance matching, or control over audio inputs, either. You all that on professional camcorders, but consumer devices tend to omit such useful options.

[bratsche]

Thank you for your ... input... (pun intended), although most of the technical jargon went over my head.

I hope it will be happy enough, though. (Sometimes we just gots to play with the only toys we gots...)

bratsche

[Don Grieser]

I just record the audio separately on the H2, then import the audio in iMovie and get rid of the Kodak Zi8 audio after I get them lined up.

[dave2015]

I just record the audio separately on the H2, then import the audio in iMovie and get rid of the Kodak Zi8 audio after I get them lined up.

This should work, but can be tricky to get right. I"ve not tried it with iMovie, but I have done it with Adobe Premiere Elements and also Final Cut Pro X.

Doing it manually may require some significant effort if the tracks are significantly out of alignment, and a clapperboard, or some other form of visual marker can help a lot. However the the video and the audio can be trimmed so that their starts are close enough, and then alignment can be a bit easier. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gVL-pMv1FM and http://www.sheldonbrown.com/synchronize-video.html - also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYBsN7JGXjY

It may not matter too much if there is a slight misalignment (+/- a few milliseconds) as often our brains can tolerate small errors, though lip sync issues show that we do require good alignment on some material. Fast finger work may also be more critical, and misalignment may be obvious.

For manual alignment, once the alignment has been fixed, this can be checked by listening to both (or multiple) audio channels simultaneously - if they are accurate enough there should be no echo effect. If there is an echo, then the alignment should be tweaked further until no echo is apparent.

There is a tool called PluralEyes which can help with alignment. There is a free trial - though I've not tried it - https://www.redgiant.com/products/pluraleyes/
Unfortunately it's quite expensive, though some offers are available.

Apple's Final Cut Pro X package also has a feature similar to PluralEyes. I have tried that, and when it works (I gather it doesn't always - but it could be that it simply requires patience ...) it can be very good and very quick. Final Cut Pro X is a significantly more complex piece of software than iMovie, and is also quite expensive, though probably worth it for anyone who really wants to make and edit films. There is a 30 days free trial, though it would take a day or two or more to get to figure out how to use it. For good results it may be worth it.

Using PluralEyes or FCPX really requires all film clips to be recorded with a sound track for best results, as this makes the synchronisation much simpler. Synchronisation can also be done by time codes, which might work for video without a sound track as well, but I figure that audio sync is more accurate. Audio tracks which are not needed are suppressed/deleted/removed once the material is lined up in the final version, though it could be worth keeping the project files in case any editing is wanted later.

There is also another recent (late 2015?) tool called Woowave DreamSync. There is a video showing some features and comparing with FCPX = http://www.woowavedreamsync.com/freq...ked-questions/ For large projects a lot of time may be saved by using automated sync tools. However, currently it looks as though DreamSync costs the same as PluralEyes.

[Beanzy]

If you know you'll be replacing the audio then it's a good idea to give yourself something easy to align with, that's what the old clapper board was used for in films. You can do the same by clapping with your hands clearly visible against a plain background. This gives you a good clear audio spike on the timeline which you can use to align the replacement audio with both the original and the image. If you do the same once you're finished you can align the ends too and that helps to tighten up any drift there could be over a longer recording. Once done you just deselect the original audio, select the new tracks and trim the ends. This needs to be done before any other editing and it's a good idea to save the new one as a new sub clip to be used for the actual edit.

If you're feeling handy you can even make up your own proper clapper board where you can write up the details to make identifying takes within clips much easier in the edit.

[nickster]

I just recently recorded a video while using the Zoom H2 for audio. I used a Samsung Note 3 for video. Audio on the Note 3 is awful bright and thin. Dumped both files into Adobe Premiere Elements 11. I used the clapping of hands to align. I aligned the audio just by sliding the audio file to the point where the clap spike matched the video of hands together. It took a few minutes to get it just right ( or close enough). This works well for videos up to three minutes I'm told. It may get out of sync again if video is longer because you are recording from two different pieces of gear. This was my first attempt at doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd8W50z34hQ

[Tavy]

Just to say there's no need for a clapper board when doing this - as long as both devices record audio the key is to put a clearly identifiable "spike" from clapping your hands or whatever at the start and end of the piece. Line up the spikes in your editor (something like reaper makes this pretty trivial) then mute the low-res sound source and you're good to go. In fact if you happen to forget the clap at the end, all is not lost - you can still usually line up the beats in the music "close enough". Having a clap at the start is pretty much a must though, as you're unlikely to start the 2 recorders at exactly the same time, so you need all the help you can get in finding the correct start synch-position. In contrast the end position is unlikely to be more than a second or two out even after 20 minutes or so, so once you have the start aligned, getting the end right is much easier.

[foldedpath]

A quick tip here if you're using hand claps for sync. Try using three sharp claps instead of just one. It's easy to distinguish those three spikes compared to anything else in the audio tracks, when you're working in the video editor.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I use the triple clap and sync method with my H1 as an external mic/recorder for all the lessons I make and have been very pleased with the results!

Thanks,
Baron