'Dola - F holes or Oval hole???

[dang]

So I have an F style mandola with F holes that needs work. It isn't really playable, but I still dream...

And in my dreams I keep seeing a Collings Mandola. Maybe a big brother to my MT2O, maybe not though...

I want to start gathering my thoughts on this, and stew on it for a while because I felt a little cheated after getting a crappy F style 'Dola that is now a wall hanger. Now all I want is sound and playability.

I feel that an F hole mandolin is a little more versatile FOR ME than an Oval hole mandolin (which is of course how I justify having both). Something about how the diffuse sound of the F holes cuts through other instruments better when chording, as opposed to my Oval which holds it's own voice and stands out in an ensemble, but I have to use a totally different chording technique?

Which begs the question, is an F hole mandola more versatile than an Oval?

[Mandobar]

if you are dreaming for an oval hole Collings mandola, it could be a long time before it comes true. Mandolas don't fit into all tunes. Some keys are pretty tricky for mandola players when playing with others.

[Mark Marino]

I really like the warmth of an oval hole over f-hole, and to me that fits mandola range nicely for solo stuff- so I built a Siminoff kit and am really happy with it (and not getting tired of showing it off . However, you are spot on that f-holes will cut through a jam better. With the mandola overlapping the pitch range of a guitar, even f-hole mandolas can easily be overpowered. I really think the mandola is better suited for smaller intimate groups or duets.

[Dolamon]

Recently I've been thinking about an F hole Mandola as ... well I've just been thinking about one. I own a few carved top and flat top mandolas and have been wondering about the potential of an F but haven't taken the plunge yet. To that end, I own three Sawchyn mandolin family instruments (A2, Beavertail Mandola and a carved top cello / bouzouki AO-2 ) and have been drooling at his web site of an F Dola he makes http://www.sawchyn.com/index.php/man...5-ah-5-mandola .

If you're not familiar with Peter's work, explore his web site. He is and has been one of the premier builders in Canada for almost forty years and I am still amazed at the quality of his workmanship and the terrific sound out of his creations. I was flattered when a Winfield winner played my A2 and said that finally someone got Gibson's ideas right. High praise from this guy, I had to pry it out of his hands to keep his larcenous past from rearing its head.

Due to the curious range of a Mandola, the F may or may not work for what you want but ... the Sawchyns have consistently been the best sounding instruments I've been exposed to. I think he's worth a look.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I have an F-hole mandola and an Oval -hole mandola. I use the Oval-hole for Classical and ITM. The F-hole is nicely percussive for BG and Rock. I'll probably have to release one of them though. Two mandolas is a luxury...

[tmsweeney]

if you are dreaming for an oval hole Collings mandola, it could be a long time before it comes true. Mandolas don't fit into all tunes. Some keys are pretty tricky for mandola players when playing with others.

I disagree entirely

[Cheryl Watson]

That's a very handsome mandola, you built, Mark! I wish I could build my own too, but I have a very good inkling of how much work (and how many tools) it takes to make one correctly.

I really like the warmth of an oval hole over f-hole, and to me that fits mandola range nicely for solo stuff- so I built a Siminoff kit and am really happy with it (and not getting tired of showing it off . However, you are spot on that f-holes will cut through a jam better. With the mandola overlapping the pitch range of a guitar, even f-hole mandolas can easily be overpowered. I really think the mandola is better suited for smaller intimate groups or duets.

[RBMB]

I have a Weber Bitterroot A-style, F hole mandola and it sounds great. It has a much more open sound than I would have expected. I was worried about the F hole model being limiting, and was plesently surprised when it arrived.

Since I couldn't find any mandola a to try near my home, I listened to lots of sound clips before buying. I also had a long talk with Dennis at the Mandolin Store. I also suggest contacting Weber as they make both styles, and there are other features to consider.

I'm curious what other folks who own F hole mandolas think about them.

[Jeff Budz]

My first mandola was a Eastman f style with f holes. It was ok but I never really dug the sound. I sold it a few years ago because it wasn't getting played much. I came across a Webber Gallitan a style with f holes. It sounds way better than the Eastman, is very versatile, and fits great in a variety of styles. I play it with my bluegrass band often and it cuts fine. I don't think the oval would cut as well. The gallstones can be had for about 1200 used, I would recommend it.

[allenhopkins]

...The gallstones can be had for about 1200 used, I would recommend it.

Wouldn't pay that much for gallstones, and then there's the cost to remove 'em…

I assume Jeff meant "Gallatin" -- blast them pesky spell-check programs!

On the basic question, not sure what's meant by the "diffuse sound" of an f-hole instrument; I've usually found f-hole mandolins, mandolas etc. more focused in sound. Generally -- and remember that each individual instrument differs!-- f-hole instruments have a more percussive attack, and a quicker sonic "decay." Oval-holes have more sustain, more of a "ring," but don't "bark" like the f-holes.

Assume you're talking about a carved-top instrument, not factoring in a flat-top oval-hole, or other type of construction. And a bit confused about your "different chording technique." If you're saying that your oval-hole doesn't respond well to the "chop" chording associated with bluegrass -- and that's the way you want to play -- then perhaps an f-hole instrument, like the Eastman mandolas which are constructed like oversize F-5 mandolins, might fit your needs. Jeff B above wasn't satisfied with his Eastman, but I have a 615 mandola that's pretty useful in a quasi-bluegrass context.

Mandolas are so scarce, that advising you to try an f-hole and an oval-hole side by side is probably useless; you won't find many dealers that have two you could compare. I'd say if you're looking for a bluegrass, or bluegrass-related, sound, that an f-hole instrument might be your ticket. I have an induced-arch, long-scale oval-hole Sobell that I use for Celtic and klezmer, the above-mentioned Eastman for bluegrass-like music, and an old Washburn bowl-back for historical music programs. Different instruments, different sounds, one not "better" than another, but, really, different tools for different purposes.

[dang]

Great info so far, not sure I could build one... Those Sawchyn instruments look beautiful, but not sure about that price point. I will have to compare closely cause they are almost $100 more than a Collings would be.

On the basic question, not sure what's meant by the "diffuse sound" of an f-hole instrument; I've usually found f-hole mandolins, mandolas etc. more focused in sound. Generally -- and remember that each individual instrument differs!-- f-hole instruments have a more percussive attack, and a quicker sonic "decay." Oval-holes have more sustain, more of a "ring," but don't "bark" like the f-holes.

Agreed, my use of diffuse in this case = quicker sonic decay

And a bit confused about your "different chording technique." If you're saying that your oval-hole doesn't respond well to the "chop" chording associated with bluegrass -- and that's the way you want to play -- then perhaps an f-hole instrument, like the Eastman mandolas which are constructed like oversize F-5 mandolins, might fit your needs. Jeff B above wasn't satisfied with his Eastman, but I have a 615 mandola that's pretty useful in a quasi-bluegrass context.

Yes that is what I meant, but no, not how I necessarily want to play...

After surveying the comments so far, and reflecting on my usage of my oval hole instrument, I am leaning towards an F-hole A-style 'dola (and yes, I am only really considering carved top instruments).

Thanks again for the comments so far, I don't have a specific ensemble or setting where I want to play a 'dola but I imagine my initial use will be to lay a second lower part over some tracks I have recorded on mandolin, guitar and bass.

Keep the opinions coming!

[dang]

I will have to compare closely cause they are almost $100 more than a Collings would be.

That should read $1000... What happened to the edit button?

[mandowilli]

Don't forget the D hole!

[Ted Eschliman]

Love my Gallatin D-hole mandola.

[Bluetickhound]

I really like the warmth of an oval hole over f-hole, and to me that fits mandola range nicely for solo stuff- so I built a Siminoff kit and am really happy with it (and not getting tired of showing it off . However, you are spot on that f-holes will cut through a jam better. With the mandola overlapping the pitch range of a guitar, even f-hole mandolas can easily be overpowered. I really think the mandola is better suited for smaller intimate groups or duets.

My friend, if I can build a mandola that nicely I will have no qualms myself about posting pictures at any opportunity!! Nice work!

[Orrin Star]

I've got an Old Wave oval mandola that I love (and often play in solo shows).
I would second the comments about the dola sharing significant range with the
guitar—but also mention two options that both help the it "cut" more:
i) capoing at the second fret
ii) using octave courses on the bottom two strings. (I use a .022 for the high C and
a .016 for the high G). That really helps articulate the lower notes.

[Bernie Daniel]

....Mandolas are so scarce, that advising you to try an f-hole and an oval-hole side by side is probably useless; you won't find many dealers that have two you could compare. I'd say if you're looking for a bluegrass, or bluegrass-related, sound, that an f-hole instrument might be your ticket. I have an induced-arch, long-scale oval-hole Sobell that I use for Celtic and klezmer, the above-mentioned Eastman for bluegrass-like music, and an old Washburn bowl-back for historical music programs. Different instruments, different sounds, one not "better" than another, but, really, different tools for different purposes.

This is true -- you rarely see even one mandola in a typical music store unless you are near Nashville (lots of big & famous places) or some place like Mandolin Brothers,or Elderlys, or the Mandolin Store etc (there are others around the country and I do not mean to slight anyone). I think the focus on oval versus f-hole can get over done -- I agree typically more sustain from the oval hole more punch from the f-hole -- exactly like guitars. It is why jazz & big band players went to f-holes -- to cut through. Same thing for bluegrass mandolins. If you are playing old time and Celtic just get an oval or D-hole instrument it will work better and you won't look weird (kidding). That said you can do fine with an f-hole instrument playing Celtic (have you noticed that all the fiddles have f-holes?) and Jimmy Martin liked the sound of an F-4 for his SMB band. Mike Compton sometimes uses a oval hole mandolin too. Nothing is cast in stone.

[dulcillini]

Dear Mr. "dang" of Omaha:

I went through this process. I love the mandola. I don't play it as often as I should, but I find that when I am in the mood to just play for fun, I will pick up the dola over the mandolin just about every time. I am blessed with two extraordinary instruments, the Collings MF5 mandolin and the Collings MT2 mandola. Just cannot say enough nice things about them. As to your question about hole shape, I never found any appreciable difference. Typically, but not always, the oval or "D" hole has more sustain, a little less percussive snap, etc. HOWEVER, I do not find the difference that noticeable. So many factors go into the sound besides hole shape so it is hard to tell. The difficulty is that many retail outlets do not carry mandolas, so it is difficult to do side-by-side comparisons in the same room, same player, same environment, etc to make a definitive decision. Only the very large outlets. like Elderly, Manndolin store, Mandolin Brothers, Acoustic Music Works, etc. have enough dolas on hand. My first mandola was a Weber Bridger A mandola. It was a wonderful instrument with a "D" hole and great sound. I had difficulty with the scale length as I have small hands for a man. I sold it and purchased the Collings MT2 mandola, which has a scale length just under 16 in. I could not believe what a difference this made for me personally. I can literally go from the mandolin to the mandola, song to song, and not feel the stretch. That being said, the Collings mandola has the "f" hole and to me, it sounds exactly the same. The Weber "D" hole possibly had a little deeper and more resonant base (and that would make sense with the longer string length), but the difference was not an issue with me. One nice little bonus to having the "f' hole Collings mandola, was that I noticed, one day while playing around, that 4 finger chop chords further up the neck worked well, especially the G and A chords, so this dola could fit into a bluegrass setting. In fact, since it was up the neck, the finger stretch was more manageable for me, with my small hands.
In summary, having a mandola is really a nice addition, and I encourage you to have one, as you will enjoy it. I think the mandola is, on the whole, underplayed and underappreciated by the general mandolin public. I sense however that that is changing as I seem to be seeing more mandolas out and about. Great ! I am even seeing some hybrid instruments adding the C string to the mandolin and making it a five course instrument. Anyway, go for it, and I think you will be happy with either hole shape. I just wish there were more dealers around that had a range of dolas on hand to compare in a live setting. That would make your choice so much easier. The two dolas I have owned were fantastic and I would have kept both of them, if I could, but alas, I had to keep just one ! Hope this helps your though process and I invite comments from others.

Michael A. Harris

[Mandobar]

I disagree entirely

Is your group playing old time or bluegrass? because I've found that when playing bluegrass tunes with the group in conventional keys can be a bit tricky tuned in CGDA can be very challenging. Case in point, Gold Rush in D. Same goes for old time. Are you capoing?

[tmsweeney]

well I'll admit the mandola probably has limited identity in traditional bluegrass simply due to it's historic lack of presence in the genre.
That doesn't mean it can't sound good in a traditional bluegrass combo playing traditional style BG. Same as a viola is almost never heard in BG, but that doesn't mean it won't work. I've heard some killer flute and cello in bluegrass, along with banjos and guitars and mandolins.
This is all a matter of personal opinion, I tend to not only be open to transforming traditional styles (now legal in some states) but I am a certified mandola, octave and mandocello nut case bent on promoting the use of these instruments at all possible opportunities.

[Mandobar]

I play mandola, octave and cittern as a general rule with a couple groups. Even playing old time or Irish tunes dependent on keys, mandola is the hardest to find an "octave placement" for: too high and you are in the mandolins space, too low and no one can hear you. I end up playing octave in these instances. The only time I use a capo is with the cittern.