Looking for Advice on setup for THE LOAR Lm600 (replacing nut)

[MrMandoMan]

Hi again folks,

I just recently bought a used but like new(its in mint shape)never nothing done to it!! 2012 THE LOAR Lm 600.I want this thing to play perfect,and while I am new to Mandolin,I do understand the need for proper action on any givin instrument(I am primarily a guitar player).

My issue is this.I have gone and bought a Cumberland Bridge to have installed on it,and well as the James Tail piece(already installed by me).So I have takin this mandolin to a place that sells acoustic instruments,such as violin's(Fiddle's for us country folks ) Mandolin's,high end acoustic guitar's ...you get the picture.So while there I was told the factory nut was to low and might have to be shimmed or a new nut put on.I have always just read that these usually only had to be filed,I have never heard of a nut replacement on a new instrument,it was unplayed really.He then proceeded to tell me that the neck has a slight radius(near as I know from reading threads,these are a flat neck)...he say that the saddle was sunken in the center A and D string area...but looked at the Cumberland bridge like it was alien or something....which kinda made me uncomfortable so to speak,so I question what kind of set up job I am going to get....the whole while he just played it right hard with a guitar pick....and making it sound just terrible.I played it at home,and it didn't sound like that at all....I am worried,should ave I left it there like I did ? and besides that the cost for everything could be as high as 150.00 plus taxes....full setup,nut work or replacement,and saddle fit and adjustment.Would some of you let me know if this is the right way to have this looked into...what should I be having done ? Thanks for all your replies in advance.

[Lefty Luthier]

Many inexpensive bridges sink in the middle due to the downward force of the D and A strings so that is not unusual. Chances are your current nut is some sort of plastic so replacing it with a good bone or pearl nut will certainly be an improvement. Cumberland bridges are excellent so if your Luthier doesn't understand that, I would go elsewhere for any work. A full setup for $150 is not unreasonable for a top line Luthier but it pays to shop around. I would request that the action height at the first fret be about 0.020 and at number 14 about 0.035.

[pfox14]

If the current nut is plastic then I would definitely replace it. I'd go with bone.

[Mike Arakelian]

Where are you located? Somebody here at the Cafe may be able to refer you to a reliable shop if we know where you are. IF you have questions about this place I wouldn't let him do the work on fitting the C/A bridge. It's unusual that the nut slots would be cut too deep on a relatively new instrument, but you don't know what the previous owner might have done. If they're too deep, you should be hearing buzzing when you fret. Too high (which is more common), and the strings will be difficult to fret. Replacing the plastic nut with one made of bone would be worthwhile. For comparison purposes, go to the web site of one or more of the Cafe sponsors. You should be able to get prices for the fitting of a new bridge, the nut, etc. Good luck.

[avaldes]

I don't know if the specs have changed, but the LM 600 has a bone nut and Cumberland Bridge, according to the Loar site. Looks pretty sweet, actually. I would consider getting it back if they have not started the setup, and get independent verification of the sunken bridge. I don't know about the reputation of this shop and the luthier, but I can't avoid the impression that he is like the car mechanic that you take in a factory perfect car and he says you need a valve job.
http://www.theloar.com/products/mand...olin-lm-600-vs

[Bill Snyder]

The page you linked to does say it has a bone nut but it does not say anything about a Cumberland Acoustics bridge. It says a compensated ebony bridge.

[avaldes]

The page you linked to does say it has a bone nut but it does not say anything about a Cumberland Acoustics bridge. It says a compensated ebony bridge.

Oops, my bad eyes.

[pfox14]

If the slots in the original nut are too low, you can try the old baking soda mixed with crazy glue trick. That's a pretty easy and cheap way to fix slots that are too low.

[Greg Mirken]

There is only one symptom that is specific to nut slots too low: If there are buzzes on open notes but not when the string is fretted at the 1st fret, the nut has to be the culprit.

[MrMandoMan]

It was buzzing when it was fretted up by the nut....but by the likes of me,there seemed to be at least 1/8 of a little better in clearance from the fret board to the strings at the end of the neck(bridge end)....and the way he was hammering at it...it seemed to be buzzing when played open too.And also I must mention,that a few days ago,I played a J Bovier Vine F5 Mandolin.That thing sounded amazing,and the action was even lower then what set on mine!!I am in Canada...on the beautiful South Shore of Nova Scotia

Thanks for all the replies so far...I am reading each and everyone very carefully

[MrMandoMan]

Also he did mention that the string gauge was really way to light for that Mandolin...there was 10's to 38's on it I believe!! He suggested going with heavier strings.Also he did ask me if I played Bluegrass and wanted that chop sound.To which I replied yes!! :D

[Gene Summers]

All of "The Loar's" come with a REAL BONE nut, and a flat fingerboard, unless they had been replaced by a previous owner. I would recommend D'addario J74's, as that is what I used on my LM520VS. You say you are new to the mandolin? I would recommend reading as much as you can about them here in the cafe, just so you won't be ignorant and be a sucker for an untrustworthy dealer/repairman at a music store. Not that you are! You have a good mandolin, best wishes!

[bmac]

I did not read previous comments answering your question... What you are experiencing is "buyers panic". I think most new mando owners experience it during the early stages of ownership... they see (hear) a small problem and panic.

If your nut seems too low causing problems with normal playing it is more likely that the bridge is too low. I would bump the bridge up say half a turn on both sides and see what that does..... this will likely cure the problem.

If it does nothing and and you don't want to raise the bridge higher. Then shim the nut up using a strip from a dollar bill edge as wide as the nut base... Glue it in place with just a tiny bit of glue on the shim and its bottom side.... It doesn't have to be much because the strings will hold it in position for pretty much the rest of its existance... (you very rarely take off all the strings at once.).

My guess is that the raising of the bridge slightly will fix your problem. and nothing else should be needed at this time....

Relax. The correction of the problem should cost you nothing but a little nerve and efffort. Mandos are made to be adjusted so you will be doing nothing unusual or dangerous to your mando.

I suggest you read frets.com for set up and maintenance info you need.

See instructions on frets.com.... That should be all you have to do to correct the problem. That nut problem suggests that your instrument has already been set up and needs very little adjustment.

Relax and enjoy it. From its reviews on this site you should be in good shape.

[bmac]

A Cumberland Accoustics bridge is simply a well adjusted bridge base on an adjustable bridge. no magic about it except that it is more expensive than a cheap one. A cheap nut can look kind of awful but even a cheap plastic nut works fine and you will not be able to tell the difference from its sound. It is the set up after installation which makes either a cheap nut or bridge sound good. Expensive ones can sound awful too.

Pouring money into your fine mando will not solve any of your problems but will make the seller of parts feel pretty good. The same goes for strings... If your strings work now then I wouldn't bother to change them until one breaks... and it sounds like your instrument has already been set up with decent strings.

I think my comments sound cynical, but they are based on my own experiences on setting up my own mandos... It is way to easy to spend money on mandos thinking that a fine mando is sold to you with sub standard bridge or nut. In my opinion they are fine and you won't be able to hear any difference until you have a year or two experience even if there is a slight difference... So in my opinion you should get it playable. and then just learn to play it... You will be surprised how cheap that is and how much it improves tone.

This comment is meant as an encouragement. I hope you take it that way.

[roysboy]

I'd strongly suggest replacing the light gauge strings with J 74's (about 7 bucks ) Light gauge strings and fret buzz go hand in hand on acoustic and electric guitars and on 2 of the 4 mandolins I've owned . This alone may alleviate the issues you are having and it's a very inexpensive place to start .

[Folkmusician.com]

Most "flat" fingerboards do have a slight radius to them. The is the case with your LM-600. It would be considered flat, but if you lay a straight edge on it you will see a slight radius. I wouldn't replace the nut until the bridge is fitted and the action is set. THEN, if the nut is low enough to cause bussing, it can be replaced. It is also important to level the frets before messing with the nut. Odds are the frets need some work and once this has been done it may not need a new nut. These do come with a bone nut.

If your luthier is good with bridge fitting, the CA bridge is a great upgrade, if he isn't it will not be an upgrade at all. The fit is just as important as the part.

[MrMandoMan]

Thank you....I have learned quite a few interesting new concepts from this post.All of which were very informative,and as I'm sure were well viewed and learned from by others as well.This is such a great place for information.I have gained very valuable insight in the world of Mandolin repair and in playing.I like to take this opportunity to thank each and everyone of you who has takin your time to help me with my question posted.A big hats off to ya my new friends,and a mighty BIG THANK YOU!!

[bmac]

We have no idea what you paid for the used instrument, but one distinct advantage of buying used is that the major set-up issues have been taken care of by some previous owner when they purchased new. And what you describe sounds minor and can be done by you with very little effort. These minor adjustments are normally simple and certainly enhance your knowledge of the workings of your instrument saving costs and increasing your knowledge base. I personally find this one of the fun aspects if owning a mandolin, whether cheap or expensive.

[Stephen Perry]

There's really so much to setting up a mandolin, including your taste. The CA bridge is an excellent upgrade. You might look at the bridge instruction outline on my mandovoodoo site for fun tricks with bridges. On nuts, I prefer the strings in each course to be closer together. That and differential spacing really make for a feel I like.

Have fun!