Paying $5,000 sight unseen for a Givens F-5

[samlyman]

I am considering buying a Givens F-5 for $5,000 from an Ebay auction. The mando was made in 1987 and is an F-5 Fern. The thing I am struggling over is that the seller offers no return. I would purchase it via PayPal so I would have some protection but I am still a bit uneasy about this. My bid on this best-offer is contingent upon the neck being true and it not needing new frets. Am I crazy?

What do you folks think?

Sam

[Phil Goodson]

I am considering buying a Givens F-5 for $5,000 from an Ebay auction...... Am I crazy?

Sam

Maybe........

I'd NEVER do it unless I talked to a person on the phone and FELT REALLY GOOD about the conversation. (Doesn't happen often.)

and even then ........

[mrmando]

This one here?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RL-Givens-F-...item2c759dc497

Have you ASKED the seller about the neck and frets, and gotten an answer? Create a paper trail of questions and answers that took place between you and the seller. Make sure you use eBay's message service for this, not just email. Get him to affirm that the neck is straight and the frets are OK. Ideally, get him to post these answers to the mandolin's eBay page. Then if you buy the mandolin and it arrives with something out of whack, you have documentation to show that the seller misrepresented the mandolin, and you should be able to file a "substantially not as described" claim with PayPal -- although you might want to check with eBay and/or PayPal to make sure that this claim applies to the seller's message text as well as his original description.

[Jstring]

Maybe........

I'd NEVER do it unless I talked to a person on the phone and FELT REALLY GOOD about the conversation. (Doesn't happen often.)....

I agree with Phil...but if you DO feel confident that the seller is trustworthy and the mandolin has no major issues, that's an excellent price. Gruhn's has a Givens F5 for $9,500 right now...Elderly had one recently for $7,500...

I really regret selling my Givens...one of the best-sounding mandolins I've ever played. If you get it for 5K, you could afford to fix any minor issues since you didn't pay 7-9K for it...

[mrmando]

P.S. 1 inch at the nut????

[Jim Garber]

I agree with Phil. Contact the seller, get lots of photos. Ask to speak with him with the instrument in hand. You can also ask if he will honor an approval period -- it is possible that eBay has the non-return as a default and he may still be willing to honor a returns. If not I might be hesitant to do this.

Is this the one in Michigan? It sounds like the seller reduced the price already and is looking to sell. He might be willing to offer returns. At the worst, perhaps there is a Cafe member who lives near it who could check it out for you before you commit?

There is one offer pending but 7 others rejected.

As Martin noted... 1" at the nut seems even narrow for me.

[samlyman]

Yes - that is the one. Say... are you going to Wintergrass Martin? It is hard to believe it is next month!

[samlyman]

Jim: 1" is narrow. I have owned 3 Givens mandos with this width over the years and it works for my hands just fine.

Sam

[Jim Garber]

I should not be surprised... actually I play a few bowlbacks with narrow necks.

Good luck on this one, Sam. I would contact the seller and see how it goes. He may be quite reasonable.

[samlyman]

Jim:

I sent the seller my questions so the answers will be documented. We'll see how it goes from here.

I have small hands so 1" to 1 1/8" works best for me. I have owned some National RM1s but I just could not play on those chunky wide necks in spite of lots of trying.

[Clef]

You should fly there and pick it up in person. Several years ago I got a flight across the country to buy a guitar. The guitar I bought cost less than this mandolin also.

Make it a weekend getaway and find something to do while you are in town.

It looks like a nice mandolin.

[samlyman]

I could fly there for free by using up some frequent flyer miles and be back home in Idaho by the end of the same day....

[Timbofood]

If it weren't so bloody cold and snowy, I might be convinced to go take a look. I don't even want to look out the window today!

[mrmando]

I have some instruments coming in from here and there, and have asked sellers to wait to ship until at least Thursday, when Midwest temperatures start returning to normal. I don't relish the thought of a truck getting stuck somewhere in Nebraska at -30 F with my mandolin in the back of it.

[DataNick]

I have heard and both found by first hand observation that not all Givens are created equal. I really think you need to see/hear the mando in question. It might not be worth $5k to you from a tonal/playability perspective, IMHO

[Steve Zawacki]

Just a couple thoughts - there must be a reason why the seller wants to EBay the mandolin instead of arranging with a reputable music store to sell it on consignment. The price may be good, but when it's too good, why is that so? If the seller is a private party is out in the middle of nowhere, perhaps EBay makes sense, but if the seller is near any metro area, I'd be wary.

[j-hill]

I know that there are Givens mandolins made by R.L. Givens (the original Givens of Givens mandolins) and there are 'Givens Legacy' mandolins in which another builder or two builds Givens mandolins under the Given name using the same jigs and tools. The Givens Legacy has Givens on the headstock the same as those made by RL (Bob) Givens. I believe the mandolin that you're considering is one of the mandolins made by Bob.

Additional information can be found here:
Givens Legacy Information

[Jim Garber]

Yes, Midlands, MI is lovely this time of year... a warm 6 degrees right now.

Some folks just know eBay as the go-to-place. He says he is selling it for his aging brother and I would assume he is not a mandolinist. Otherwise, he prob would post an ad here on the Cafe classifieds.

[DataNick]

I know that there are Givens mandolins made by R.L. Givens (the original Givens of Givens mandolins) and there are 'Givens Legacy' mandolins in which another builder or two builds Givens mandolins under the Given name using the same jigs and tools. The Givens Legacy has Givens on the headstock the same as those made by RL (Bob) Givens. I believe the mandolin that you're considering is one of the mandolins made by Bob.

Additional information can be found here:
Givens Legacy Information

All true J-Hill!

If your response is to my comment, I was referring to the "true" Givens mandos made by Robert Givens. There are definitely some great ones out there, however I have heard/played some not so great ones as well (per my Bluegrass tonal palete)...

[Mike Bunting]

P.S. 1 inch at the nut????

Apparently in the early days in Nashville, Bob Givens was building some mandos for fiddlers who liked a narrow neck, thus the 1" nuts. I had a '78 F with the narrow neck that I played for quite awhile before trading it off.

[lorrainehornig]

The seller has a 100% feedback rating on 31 transactions. In reading the ad, it sure sounds like he is on the up-and-up. I would document all communications, as others have stated, just in case there's a problem. Good luck! It appears you might have a true find here.

[womandolynn]

Ebay/paypal let you return just about anything these days as long as you pay shipping. It really doesn't matter if the ad says "no returns." This is very unfavorable to dishonest sellers and to honest sellers who happen to sell to dishonest buyers.

[Bruce Clausen]

Some folks just know eBay as the go-to-place. He says he is selling it for his aging brother and I would assume he is not a mandolinist. Otherwise, he prob would post an ad here on the Cafe classifieds.

For what it's worth, this Givens (#379) was advertised here on the Cafe last September.

[Hallmark498]

To answer the OP question, The only way I would buy a mando without playing it is if someone I really trusted (aka they must know about mandolins, David Harvey for example) put their stamp of approval on it.

[stevedenver]

im in the camp you gotta either know the instrument and or seller or be skeptical. Mrmando is right on too for making a paper trail of your understanding and formation of the offer to purchase.

Simply, if you don't LIKE it, that's a lot of money to have , no less to try to resell.
If its fine, or in need of tweaks, big or small, you take on a project to manage.

I have bought a few pricey instruments sight unseen, but only with an unconditional right to return at my discretion, less shipping.

I have returned only 2-one not as represented, one that was simply an overbuilt but beautiful archtop. There's something about a certain investment level that one should be gleeful, unconditionally. Since sound and feel are so personal, and can be, sometimes, SO TERRIBLY hard to massage or correct, personally, I would not risk this amount.

The upside is impressive and a possibility indeed. The potential downside would bug me for a long long time. There is nothing like having the Grail in the house, and determining, after a day or two of oggling and caressing , it no longer 'glows in the dark'. Been there -always makes me happy to know I don't have to keep it. As for the pay pal protection, (and im a lawyer) I don't want the hassle, the argument, the possibility that some idjit somewhere doesn't agree to return your money . And frankly, from what I understand, you have contractually foregone the right to return, short of fraud. Don't disregard the possible impact of this condition of purchase.

Its sold. Let us know, please, if 'twas you, and how it is!