octave has tune issues

[JPS1919A2]

hello to all, I changed the strings that was originally on my weber octave mandolin to J80s . the problem is this, intonation is fine, neck is straight, frets are new, space from the 12th fret to bass and treble strings are per factory, it is in tune, its just when I start playing each string course it sounds out of tune so i check the strings and they are in tune! what gives?

[Mandobart]

Is it more out of tune on the lower frets than the higher frets? Could be a nut problem. Have you checked the intonation?

[darylcrisp]

could be a bad string set

d

[jmp]

What kind of strings did you originally have on their? How do they compare to the J80s in terms of gauges?

[jshane]

I'll jump in and suggest something else-- IF the strings are in tune when open, and the intonation is good at the 12th, and string height seems reasonable--- it is POSSIBLE that you are bending the strings just a bit when fingering. This would occur mostly on the lower wound strings. The only reason I raise this is that when my wife switched to playing octave, the relatively loose strings made it very very easy for her to change the pitch of a fretted note by as much as an eighth-note if she either pressed too hard on a string, OR she deviated even the slightest in pressing a string straight down.

I know it sounds like a long-shot, but I thought I'd mention it-- particularly if you are coming to the octave from traditional mandolin.

[Tobin]

What kind of strings did you originally have on their? How do they compare to the J80s in terms of gauges?

I'm guessing this is the main issue. Changing strings to a different gauge can cause strange issues like this. Or even the same gauge but a different brand which uses a different core wire. I was having this conversation last weekend with Steve Smith about our string choices on our Ellis mandolins. Apparently Tom Ellis compensates his bridge saddles specifically for one brand/gauge of string (GHS A270s in this case), and although they may be the same gauge as other brands, the tension is different. This likely has to do with different alloys used in the wire, different hardening techniques, or other stuff I don't really care about. All that matters is the fact that using a different brand/gauge than it was built for will indeed cause strings to play slightly out of tune when fretted, even if it's perfectly in tune when open and when intonated correctly at the 12th fret. Bridge compensation matters!

Since this problem seems to have cropped up when you changed strings to J80s, the first and most obvious solution is to go back to the same exact brand/gauge you had on there before (or the brand/gauge Weber recommends). See if that solves the problem. If it does, then the answer is most likely that the new strings are outside the design range for your OM's compensation. To use those strings, you may have to get a bridge compensated for them.

[JPS1919A2]

I was told that they could be John pearse strings from the factory.

[JPS1919A2]

I might have to go back to the original strings which were John pearse.

[Bertram Henze]

Having looked up the specs of J80s, I must say they seem to a bit on the light side, even for a 23" scale length.
You get this effect, too, when playing an Irish tenor banjo (GDAE): light fretting forces only or else they sound kind of elastic.

[JPS1919A2]

Bertram , all things considered, do you think if I put on a little more heavy gauge it would get rid of the tune issue?

[allenhopkins]

...when I start playing each string course it sounds out of tune...

What exactly do you mean by "out of tune"? Do the strings sound sharp? Flat? Is one string of a pair out of unison with the other? Assume that the strings are in tune when you don't fret them; do they start going out of tune when you fret them? How far up the neck? Have you checked the 12th fret octave against the harmonic at the same fret?

"Out of tune" is a broad description. Some people use it for a sound that they don't find pleasing, even if the pitch is accurate. If you try to describe the problem more specifically, we can be more help.

[bmac]

I will make the assumption that you are fairly new to the mandolin, based on the number of messages you've sent.

Your Weber is a fine instrument and is likely not part of the problem.

I seriously doubt that your strings are defective.

unless you have futzed with the nut yourself the nut is probably in good adjustment.

It is possible that your bridge is too high... Quite likely if you or someone has messed with it.

But I am going to guess that there is really nothing wrong with your instrument other than the fact that you are not used to it. The first year of my mando experience was similar to yours... Although I bought it new and set up from a reputable dealer I began to obsess about tone and intonation until I began "hearing things". I took it to a luthier and it cost me $60 to learn that there was absolutely nothing wrong with my mando and its intonation. The problem was me, and my inexperience.

[Bertram Henze]

Bertram , all things considered, do you think if I put on a little more heavy gauge it would get rid of the tune issue?

If the problem started with changing to lighter strings, that's exactly what I would think, and it's always worth trying. They should not get heavier than neccessary to get rid of the problem, though, i.e. approx. the same gauge as the original strings were.