Luthiers please respond...starting to lose sleep...

[AeroJoe]

I purchased a new (well-known brand...$4999.95) *I won't mention brand names because I respect Mr. Tichnor and don't want anyone to shut this post down until i can get some answers* mandolin at a GC in Texas. Great mando, no complaints...yet. I told them just to ship it to the GC nearest my hometown and I'd pick it up there vs. driving to Texas. They did. The teen-age kid I dealt with said, "it'll be waiting and ready for you when you get here to pick it up!!!...I'll even change the strings!!!" I said "NO!!! DON'T mess with it!!!...if the string are rusty, that's fine...i'll still be able to get a general idea of how it sounds". So off on a two-hour, one way trip to the GC it was shipped to...and come to find out the kid had changed the strings ANYWAY...worse, to get it to intonate at the 12th fret, he pulled the bridge back, I assume with both hands, while the strings were under full tension. Anyway, this bit of genius caused the INNER feet of the bridge on the bass side, say under the D-course of strings, and, to a slightly lesser degee, the INNER feet under the E-course of strings, this caused the bridge feet to cause a trench, dip, whatever adjective you want to call it, in the beautiful contour of a perfect top. My question, will they be stable? Will the sinking get worse? Is it certainly no worse than a bad finger wear indentation (thru to the wood) I've seen some people have where they place a pinky when they play. It's not deep, but it IS noticable when you feel for it, on both sides...humidification has no effect, nor de-humidification, as far as I can tell. I've always believed in a tight bridge fit to a top as condusive to a good sound but this is pushing things a bit. I'm starting to lose sleep over this because i'm not sure whether it's not a problem and don't worry and just keep play the thing or take the thing back and get a refund. I'm running out of days to do the refund thing, because I wanted to see if there would be any change once the humidity level was brought up to proper standards and the thing had a chance toadjust to my condo. You can BARELY see the dip/trench if you hold it up to a well-lit lamp shade and view it from the side...on the other hand, when you rub your finger across the contour of the top, it you can most certainly feel it. Sorry this is long...i look eagerly to any responses and I APPRECIATE them...THANK YOU IN ANDVANCE!!! God bless...

[Bluetickhound]

I'm no luthier but that's an awful lot of money to spend on an instrument to be losing sleep over potential issues. If it were me, I'd go get my money. ..

[multidon]

Personally I would have never accepted it in the first place. I vote for taking it back along with a chat with the store manager about the incident and the young genius's failure to respect a customer's wishes.

[sunburst]

I can't know what the situation is from your description, I'd have to examine it in hand to know what damage has been done and the extent of the damage, but it sounds to me like it comes down to this:
If you really like the sound, feel and playability of the mandolin, it would be a shame to give up on it because of some light surface damage. If, on the other hand, you can easily find another mandolin that you like as well or better, it's not worth loosing sleep over... take it back.

[JeffD]

If you are paying full new instrument prices to get a new instrument, it should be in new condition.

[AeroJoe]

Mr. Hamlett...I like your choice of words.."light surfage damage"...I do like the mandolin I must make that clear, and I did not notice this damage, if you will, until a few days after I got it home and took the (light) strings off and put Exp-74's on it. It did not take super-powers to figure out what caused the damage. I did call the GC but they had absolutely NO idea what i was trying to communicate with them. I did call the maker...I was told they were undecided about whether this should fall undera warranty-covered structural problem (their time and money and a 6-9 month wait for a new top) or stupidity on the fault of a person, causing the said problem (my time and money) They said "I'll have to get back with you on that" (Still waiting) If the consensus (and I do need more of your opinions) is that it will likley just be a dent and remain just that and be stable and give no further problems, I'll keep the thing. If a dip in the contuor of the top (it's no bigger than a dime) is going to cause problems later on, then I'll go get a refund. AGAIN...I ***APPRECIATE*** ALL THE HELP YOU WHO HAVE *MUCH* MORE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS THAN I (AND MOST OTHER) PEOPLE DO... ... ...that's why we depend on you guys so much, even though it may seem you all go underappreciated at time... God Bless...

[Dale Ludewig]

Can you post a few photos?

[pfox14]

Why did you $5K for a damaged mandolin? I don't get it.

[Tom Haywood]

If the consensus (and I do need more of your opinions) is that it will likley just be a dent and remain just that and be stable and give no further problems, I'll keep the thing. If a dip in the contuor of the top (it's no bigger than a dime) is going to cause problems later on, then I'll go get a refund.

I would seek an inspection, not a consensus.

[Rodney Riley]

Why did you $5K for a damaged mandolin? I don't get it.

In post #6 his said he didn't notice until he put heavier strings on. I still would have had a discussion with the teen and his manager about him not doing as you had asked.

[fscotte]

Seems normal to me.

[Bernie Daniel]

In post #6 his said he didn't notice until he put heavier strings on. I still would have had a discussion with the teen and his manager about him not doing as you had asked.

More then likely the kid had already done it when the first call was made? Unfortunate situation all around I'd say.

[G. Fisher]

Are these indentations directly under the bridge where it is now or where the bridge was before it was moved?

[AeroJoe]

Dale...thanks for the question...my camera won't pick them up... G.Fisher, the indentations are in *front* of the bridge feet NOW, where it sits on the top where it is positioned now. The kid that moved it, causing the problem, actually (and ironically) got it set accurately and it inntonates fine...my whole point beside wondering if this problem of the indentations will stay stable, is that if he had moved the bridge to set it in the proper place when he put those "lights" on it, he should have tuned the strings waaaaaaaay down before sliding that bridge under full string pressure, causing the problem in the top in the first place...he literally drug those dips into a beautiful top... ... ... Like I said before, there is a dime-sized (not dime deep...) dip in front of the bridge foot in front of the D-strings and a smaller, less deeper one in front of the bridge foot in front of the A-strings...

[G. Fisher]

Since they are where the bridge was. The indentations could've been made by the bridge just being in that spot on the top. I've seen that before when I've taken the bridge off that there are indentations and I haven't moved the bridge at all.

These marks are on the edges of the arched cut out on bottom if the base of the bridge correct? If the bridge was moved under tension I would think there would be other marks on the top in addition to the marks you've mentioned.

[Rob Grant]

First off, pardon my ignorance, but what's is a "GC?" My mind boggles at the possibilities, especially considering the problem that was caused by said "GC."<G>

Anyhow, one can't expect a proper opinion without a decent photo 'ol son. Sounds to me like you either have a minor finish touch up problem or a major disaster (replace the top???!!!).

The average modern digital camera and a bit of finesse will give a us out here (or "down here"<g>) a better idea of your problem.

Relax, have a glass of wine or a couple of cold tinnies (it'll probably take a six pack of that Yank grog<g>) and post a photo so we all can properly analyze your situation.

[Bluetickhound]

GC = Guitar Center. A big box retailer of musical instruments and supplies in the States.

[Rob Grant]

GC = Guitar Center. A big box retailer of musical instruments and supplies in the States.

Thanks for that. I can sleep now.<G>

[Bluetickhound]

Always glad to help!!

[Pete Jenner]

(it'll probably take a six pack of that Yank grog<g>)

I was pleasantly surprised by Yank grog. They have a huge variety. Marty Jacobson took me to a grog shop in Atlanta that was an enormous beer warehouse. They even had Coopers Pale Ale.

[Keith Newell]

Moving a bridge a bit after it has been in a spot since the finish was new can leave a mark and be pretty deceptive as far as how bad it is. It should not effect the structure of the top but only be a visual annoyance. If the top is that fragile that that small blip makes it an issue then you should get your money back otherwise it should not effect the top. I am just putting in my 2 cents and it is not my mandolin. Been there and got the t-shirt kind of thing. The top should be pretty robust and if heavier strings also change things to much then my opinion is the top is on the fragile edge of being awesome/being a catastrophe.
Keith

[Tavy]

Just my 2c... but are you sure this is not just the "usual" marks left by a bridge when it's been sat in spot for a while? Moving the bridge has exposed them, but not necessarily caused them... and over time you'll get more...

[AeroJoe]

I appreciate all your responses...though I have gotten widely different variety of them, I thank each of you for your time spent in dealing iwht my little problem. Again, someone asked for photos...my camera will just not pick it up...I tried several angles/lighting this morning to no avail. Then, I noticed a pad of those little yellow "sticky" notes on my desk next to the computer. An idea came to mind... I peeled off 2, then 3 then 4, made sure I kept the sticky part away from the instrument and covered the indentations with them. When using 4, you can no longer feel the indintation or dent or whatever you want to call it in the top...how thick is 4 "sticky" notes" to fill that indentation as un-feelable?, less than half the thickness of a dime...whatever that mathematical measure terms that comes up to be. You are probably wondering my sanity to be able to feel something that thin...but believe me, I can... AND so can my roomie, who has absolutely no idea about things conerning instruments except to tell at me to "turn it down!!!" when watching "Vampire Diaries" are on TV. So at least you all that have chosen to chime in, have an idea how deep the dips are...sorry for this rudimentary way of measuring and those of you that waste 4 sticky notes of your own to get an idea of how deep the dent/ding is on my mandolin top...well, I want you to know I do thankyou...very much so!!! God bless...

[allenhopkins]

Get thee to a good instrument repair shop, one that knows something about mandolins, and get an expert diagnosis. Shouldn't be too hard to find one in NC. The well-informed responders to this thread -- among whom I do not include myself -- are working in the dark since the damage is not significant enough to show up in a photograph, apparently.

Two separate issues here: is the mandolin too badly damaged to be kept -- which is a question that it would take a good on-site inspection to determine -- and secondly, what should be done about the idiocy of the Guitar Center staff, who disregarded a customer's wishes and by doing so inflicted the damage. Unless the top's structurally compromised (unlikely), the dings are probably nothing worse than I've put on most of my mandolins in their first year of use. Now, if every time you pick up the mandolin you find yourself running your finger over the dents and cursing softly to yourself, perhaps you should take it back, because you're never going to really accept it. But if you like the sound and the feel, and find yourself pretty much ignoring the scuffs or dents or whatever they are -- well, you can look on it as "distressing," and people pay big bucks for "distressed" instruments these days.

On the second point, if the jerk who restrung and dinged the instrument works in the local store, I'd definitely visit the place and talk to the manager. In my infrequent visits to Guitar Center, I have never been overly impressed with the acoustic-instrument expertise of the store staff. Probably I'm slandering a host of experienced and helpful GC employees who don't happen to work on Jefferson Rd. in Rochester, but store managers need to know when their subordinates don't follow customers' wishes and instructions -- and possibly cost their stores a major sale by doing so!

Just my 2¢.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Slight indents are not necessarily indicative of a collapsing top. You'd find that issue on many old and recent Gibsons, e. g. the Schultz Loar, note the gap under the bridge base end:http://www.mandolinarchive.com/image...idge_macro.jpg