Zero Fret... Pros and cons?

[TJ.]

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting on the forums. (I really should come here more often) I am a Mandolin builder and was just wondering how you all feel about 'zero' frets. Personally I prefer them... they're easy to install and you get the absolute lowest action possible at the nut. I've also been accused of being lazy and taking 'cheap shortcuts'. (I don't install zero frets and all my Mandos, but use Ebony nuts most of the time) What do you think? Can you detect a difference in the sound between a 'metal nut' and one made of Ebony? Thanks! TeeJay from Minnesota.

[Tavy]

Another zero fret fan here, there's nothing to not recommend them IMO, except some folks don't like the look (or rather they are more used to seeing bone nuts).

[Willie Poole]

There was a thread on here a while back that showed the bone nut with a zero fret made into it so it had the traditional looks of a bone nut but still had the advantages of a zero fret...I believe that is the way to go...I think a lot of builders shy away from them because at one time most of the inexpensive Asian mandolins had them so they sort of got the rep of being cheap looking, myself I like them because they don`t require any slotting of the nut....

Willie

[MikeEdgerton]

You still need to slot the nut on a zero fret. It just isn't critical to the height of the strings. It is critical to the string placement across the fretboard.

I'm not a fan, simply because I don't care for the way they look, nothing more nothing less. No science involved.

[mirwa]

A properly fitted zero fret will give the lowest possible action on the open strings when done correctly with no buzz, so Im a fan of the zero fret

[sunburst]

A "regular" nut can be set up for exactly the same height as a zero fret, or higher or lower for that matter (lower, of coarse would be too low), so it is not entirely correct that a zero fret gives us "the absolute lowest action possible at the nut", at least it doesn't do so to the exclusion of 'standard' nuts.
If we can hear a difference between strings resting in a nut slot and strings resting on a fret, then there may be more consistency of sound with a zero fret. I don't hear a significant difference, so for various reasons I prefer a nut to a zero fret.

[buchrob]

Nuts get neglected, busted, dirty, played-width & wrong-sized a lot more than a zero fret.

If I were a builder, I would like the reassurance that my buyer could play with string gauges, etc. to his heart's content while knowing that the action I delivered was impeccable and largely invulnerable to buzzing and other effects from client intervention or neglect.

If the zero fret never sounds worse than the ideal nut, then why not go for it in a "player" instrument?

[CarlT]

I agree. I have a lower end 70s Washburn (made in Japan) with a zero fret, and have often wondered why they aren't used more. It is a great playing and sounding mandolin. It seems like even if they were only used on "cheap" mandolins, they still should be used over plastic high action nuts!

[Pete Jenner]

I'm a big fan of the zero fret however, after reading the article on intonation by Gary Magliari and Don MacRostie in the latest AL mag, I'm wondering if nut compensation will be the way of the future. I still don't fully understand the article will have to read it a few more times for the information to sink in. Nut compensation is of course not possible with a zero fret. Perhaps it would be a good subject for another thread.

[Les Corley]

I'm a firm believer in 0 fret & I don't know if it is better or worse. I like the looks of it better but if you're a traditionalist then you probably won't like them. I think It's mostly just a matter of taste. I'm building a Stromberg style canted top & It's having a 0 fret & 13" scale. I don't mind the setup on a bone nut but the 0 fret is much easier & I think more accurate & you don't have to worry about the string binding up in the slot

[Dan of SC]

I'm not an old pro by any stretch, but the zero fret seems like a good idea to me, lessens the need for the nut to be ultra precise. I've seen a total of one guitar with a zero fret. I wonder, how long has this idea been around?

[Bertram Henze]

I have changed string gauges so often, and all I had to do was cut the nut slots a bit wider if neccessary, with not even a thought about that risk of open string buzzing because of some mistake I made or whatever, because the zero fret is there to take care of it.

I never would buy an instrument without one again. Often, I have seen a nice instrument on some luthier's website or on YouTube and thought "should I get myself one of those" but something about it seemed just not right and at last I saw it: no zero fret. "pity", I thought, "one customer less". It has happened many times.

[Mandolin-Tele]

http://www.zeroglide.com/installation.asp

[Tavy]

I'm a big fan of the zero fret however, after reading the article on intonation by Gary Magliari and Don MacRostie in the latest AL mag, I'm wondering if nut compensation will be the way of the future. I still don't fully understand the article will have to read it a few more times for the information to sink in. Nut compensation is of course not possible with a zero fret. Perhaps it would be a good subject for another thread.

I'm still a born-again-skeptic when it comes to nut compensation - or at least with a zero fret the instrument is equally out of tune on every string whether fretted or not

Or to put it another way, since nut compensation is irrelevant once you fret a string, why not make every note a fretted note by using a zero fret...

[Tavy]

http://www.zeroglide.com/installation.asp

I genuinely don't get that - sure maybe it reduces friction in the nut, but other than that it seems to have all of the disadvantages of each method and the advantages of neither.

[Shelagh Moore]

I personally prefer a well-cut nut to a zero fret. You need a nut anyway with a zero fret and I prefer the aesthetics of just the nut.

[Pete Jenner]

I think you would find the article interesting Tavy. However I think the thrust of it is more about ''fret compensation' or averaging out fret spacing to get the best intonation outcome for all strings when sting tension on fretting is taken into account. If I'm reading it correctly, nut compensation is only a small part of the overall picture which includes saddle and fret compensation.

Until I fully understand the concepts, I shall continue to spruik the benefits zero fret.

[Bertram Henze]

I prefer the aesthetics of just the nut.

I can tell from experience that, once you come to terms with the aesthetics of a zero fret, you'll give in to the aesthetics of a capo more easily

[mirwa]

Compensated nuts to me are a lot like equal temperament frets, cute idea but really unnecessary in the hands of a good guitar player

[David Houchens]

Not trying to change the OPs original question, but I really don't understand why people think a capo makes a compensated nut void.How is nut compensation irrelevant after fretting a string?
If you believe this, try placing a small piece of wood or anything under a string right against the nut. (make the distance between the nut/first shorter)
Now retune the string and capo at any fret and see what happens on the remaining frets.
A compensated nut does the same as a compensated bridge. Did it on banjos for years with another builder. You are changing the whole string not just the first fret.

[Bertram Henze]

If you believe this, try placing a small piece of wood or anything under a string right against the nut. (make the distance between the nut/first shorter)
Now retune the string and capo at any fret and see what happens on the remaining frets.

If I understand this argument right, then nut compensation would only be neccessary to make up for intonation issues originating from the fact that the nut is not a fret (height, string bending properties etc). If that is so, a simple zero fret would make any nut compensation unneccessary.

[vernob]

Every note other than an open string already is made with a fret. A nut is traditional but, as has been said, is easier to install and levels out all notes as being made by a fret. I just made a cittern and used a zero fret. I don't have a set of nut files and I didn't want to buy them. I'm not a pro builder just a cobbler for my own use. I went with what seemed easier.

[bmac]

The only negative of zero fret usage is that it may increase manufacturing cost a little, very little. Otherwise it eliminates the necessity of shaping and carving the nut for accurate and easy playing. I am surprised that it is not used more on new mandolins. It would certainly reduce the necessity for costly set up expenses.

[Tommcgtx]

Does a zero fret wear faster than the rest, and need replaced more often?

[Jim Adwell]

Does a zero fret wear faster than the rest, and need replaced more often?

According to a previous thread here on the subject, no.