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Thread: Laminated back and sides bad?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Some 10 years back, there was this very plain Jane, Lyle student grade classical guitar. Ugly finish, light colored fretboard dyed black, the whole deal. It sounded amazingly good for what it was, and everyone who heard it would comment on it. i've always regretted not plunking down the 2 bills for it.

  2. #52
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Probably 1/3 of the best guitar builders in the country offer laminated sides; they just don't mention it to keep the whining down....

    That Lyle guitar was probably influenced by the 1960s Ramirez models with laminated sides.

    I've got a giant article coming up in American Lutherie magazine on the entire process of building with laminated sides. Mandolins are so small that I don't need to, but they kick @$$ for the guitars and upright basses.
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  4. #53
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Even in the upper-end boutique jazz guitar world there are makers who use laminated woods to construct their instruments. Of course, these are usually meant to play using pickups but there is still some concern with acoustic sound. A friend of mine has a very nice Roger Borys archtop that is primarily laminated.

    Also, the Epiphone Company evemn back in the 1930s and later often used laminated back and sides for many of their archtops.
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  6. #54
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Jim, I get what you re saying, but for an arched mandolin, it seems the bare minimum is a hand-carved top and the preference is solid wood. The flat top design for a mandolin seems to be more forgiving, but there does not seem to be any interest for any mandolin not made of solid wood. I had a rogue and can tell the solid top on my rover is a step up in quality. To move into a solid mandolin, the best options seem to be the economical rover RM-50 or waiting for the KM-150. I have tried a few oval hole mandolins, but the good ones are out my price range for now. I looked at the KM-120 Army-Navy Pancake mandolin, but there was little enthusiasm amongst the café dwellers for it. Thanks again!

  7. #55
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    I can't see how laminated sides can really have much detrimental impact on the sound. If the laminated back were carefully carved and graduated by an expert it could probably sound as good as any mandolin. . . .
    They carve laminated backs? I thought they just molded them. My first mando was a $50 plywood Fender, and I deeply doubt it was carved.

    I know a lot more about guitars than mandos, and I've found that, all things being equal, guitars with solid backs and sides have clearer, louder voices than plywood.
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  8. #56
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    ……….I know a lot more about guitars than mandos, and I've found that, all things being equal, guitars with solid backs and sides have clearer, louder voices than plywood.
    Yeah, that Django guy couldn’t get any volume or clarity out of his Selmer laminated guitar, rosewood over mahogany.
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  9. #57
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Charlie/Bill: I think we can agree that guitars and mandolins are apples and oranges. Where laminate in a guitar may work or have a benefit, does it have any value for a mandolin or a mandolin family instrument? If the issue is just volume, does it matter for a mandolin not trying to compete with a banjo or fiddle? Or one that is amplified? Just curious. I found my old laminate (a rogue) to have an odd tinny sound especially when trying to hit higher notes. It seemed to have a sweeter sound when the G string was tuned up to A and the E string tuned down to D. Maybe it is just my ear for power chords or, as someone pointed out, an undeveloped ear for the mandolin. As a beginner, I am not really in a position to argue otherwise. Cheers!

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  11. #58
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    Yeah, that Django guy couldn’t get any volume or clarity out of his Selmer laminated guitar, rosewood over mahogany.
    You got me there, pard! Good music-making always depends the player, not the played.

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  12. #59
    Registered User JiminRussia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Bad? Gosh, I hope not! That’s what I have.
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  14. #60
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    It is certainly possible to carve laminated wood and there are many products that do this. As was earlier postulated, (if) a laminated mandolin back was carefully carved and graduated by an expert it could sound as good as any mandolin. Manufactures probably don't do this due to the general preconceived notion that laminated wood will never sound as good as solid. Perhaps as the value of solid tone wood increases the market will consider carved laminates as a viable option for tone and value.

  15. #61
    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Haven't read the thread through yet, but...

    Laminated back & sides is perfectly acceptable in a cheap mandolin. In fact it's to be expected. No, it won't have the tone or volume of even a student-grade mandolin, but a cheap mandolin is still a worthwhile, inexpensive tool to learn on.

    A proper setup is even MORE IMPORTANT on a cheap mandolin than on a student-grade mandolin, mostly because cheap mandolins don't come anywhere near correctly set up by the factory, and most stores that sell cheap mandolins are clueless on how to set them up.

    And remember the rule - Skip your second mandolin and go straight to your third mandolin.
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  17. #62
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by phydaux View Post
    . . . And remember the rule - Skip your second mandolin and go straight to your third mandolin.
    Actually I should have skipped the third one and either stuck with the second or skipped to the fourth!
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  18. #63

    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    And remember the rule - Skip your second mandolin and go straight to your third mandolin.
    The Jethro approach. Jethro said " I always mess up my first song so I started playing the second song first."

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  20. #64
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlM View Post
    The Jethro approach. Jethro said " I always mess up my first song so I started playing the second song first."
    =O]
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  21. #65

    Default Re: Laminated back and sides bad?

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    This was my first mandolin, an Ibanez M510. One thing I appreciate about laminate mandolins is I can leave them out and not worry too much about humidity/etc. This mando withstood a lot of abuse, swings in temp and humidity, and fell down about 20 ft (I thought hanging it on a nail over the stairs was a good idea) this made a crack from the treble F-hole down to the side. But 2 years later the crack hasn't spread and it still sounds great. I ended up putting ultra light strings on it and giving it to a musically inclined family member.

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