Rookie mistake on my first mando

[PaulaJ]

I always wanted to learn mandolin having grown up with musicians in the family. The instruments that I have inherited are really just sentimental and not suitable for learning on. I set out to purchase a good starter mandolin and settled on The Loar LM220-vs over any of the Kentucky's or Eastmans. This was based a lot on reading up on the Internet. The mistake? I bought it on Amazon. ...

The "G" string didn't sound right and there was some buzzing. I sent it to a guitar luthier for setup. He came back with some issues that at the time I interpreted as defects, but may be more of a setup issue. I has been a challenge to find a mandolin luthier in the Atlanta area. I am sure they exist ...

I posted the issues on the "The Loar production issues" thread and people agreed that a better setup would make it sound better. I took it to a different guitar luthier nearby and he has reset some frets and adjusted the bridge. It did make a difference, but he says that the strings are sitting too close to the frets.

My question is - should I keep trying to work with this one or move on to a new mandolin from a dealer (probably online) that will set it up correctly from the beginning? I have started lessons and this does appear to be something that I will continue with. I could perhaps justify a higher budget. The biggest issue has been finding someone that can really help me with the LM220.

For the most part, the three people that have looked at it have not liked it at all and really don't seem to want to work on it. I can't return it. Would someone buy it for their kid?

[Tobin]

If they've already adjusted the bridge and frets but say the strings are too close to the frets, it sounds like it needs a new nut (or some filler in the existing nut). This is a pretty easy and inexpensive option, as opposed to buying a new mandolin.

Since you're a beginner and likely don't want to pour big money into this yet, I'd stick with what you have, assuming it is indeed fixable. But meanwhile, as you're learning, save for a better quality instrument.

You just need to find someone willing to do the work. If you can't find one locally, there are numerous folks on this board who are qualified enough and willing to do the work for you. It may involve shipping, though, which requires patience and costs money. So it's a trade-off.

[Folkmusician.com]

Hello Paula,

Few luthiers will have extensive experience with mandolins. It is just not a mainstream instrument. Without seeing it in person, it is really hard to say if it still just needs some setup, or there is actually a problem.

I am the largest The Loar Mandolin dealer, so I do have a financial interest when I say this.... The Loar's do not have anymore issues than the other brands in the price range. In fact, they have the fewest "serious" issues I see. When I say serious, I mean warped necks, truss rods that don't work, etc... It is very rare that I get one that does not setup great. I tend to think you haven't found the right setup person yet. One sign of caution here is that you were told "the strings are too close to the frets" That is why these have adjustable bridges.

Where are you located? maybe someone can recommend a nearby luthier that does know mandolins well. I would be happy to set it up for you, though there would be a big expense in round trip shipping, so it may not be worth it.

[Paul Hird]

I am only a beginner at this, but if he said the strings are "sitting too close to the frets", through his set up he should have corrected that by adjusting the nut and or the bridge. I had the same issue and the set up took care of the buzzing. Based on what I have heard here on the forum, a good set up can make almost any mandolin playable enough to learn on. Again, I am kind of speaking out of school about the set up as I am new to this, but I believe any luthier should be able to set the action high enough to eliminate the buzzing or strings being to close to the frets, unless there is some problematic structural issue.

[nickster60]

I would recommend if you can to purchase a mandolin from Folkmusician.com, Robert is a member and sponsor on the cafe. Robert does a great setup and it will be right. He also is happy to give you advise on a good choice for a mandolin. You can then have your mandolin setup or just sell it.

Robert you are fast you beat me to it.

[Iron]

Playing a mandolin like that really makes it hard to learn, you got your plate full learning don't make it harder than it has to be, if you really are serious about learning the mandolin set the one you have aside and buy the best mandolin you can afford.
Playing an inferior instrument is like washing your feet with your socks, it can be done, but...........

[Eric F.]

Paula, have you tried Maple Street Guitars? They are a Collings and Eastman dealer, and probably have a capable setup person.

[Rodney Riley]

Send a PM to Marty Jacobsen, café member in Atlanta. He should know the best in town. (Which is probably him)

If he can't help you, see if he will let you come and see what he is building. That would be a great visit.

[Eric F.]

If I lived in Atlanta, I'd definitely visit Marty's workshop, which means I would leave with a much lighter wallet. So I guess it's good I don't live in Atlanta.

[OldSausage]

Yes, I don't know which part of town you're in, but as already mentioned, Maple Street Guitars do a great set up, and the mandolin I bought from Marty Jacobson is probably one of the best set up mandolins in the world. Here's Marty's website: http://martinjacobson.com/

[Eric F.]

Hey, Marty's website shows a koa custom Nautilus reserved for someone with my initials. I'd like to thank my wife for thinking of me. That must be it, right?

[belbein]

Hey, Marty's website shows a koa custom Nautilus reserved for someone with my initials. I'd like to thank my wife for thinking of me. That must be it, right?

Yeah, just don't tell her she bought it for you BEFORE you bring it home.

[belbein]

PaulaJ: As other people have said, guitar luthiers seem to think they know more about mandolins than they do, which is why you should learn to do your own setups. It really isn't all that technically demanding.

I've used Maple Street Guitars--they're great. I've had them do a setup for an instrument that just wouldn't respond to what I was doing. (Their verdict: this mandolin is never going to be any more than it is right now.) But you really liberate yourself if you learn how to do this.

Just for example: I have this POS mandolin I bought for my office. It disintegrated one day (explosive failure of the neck joint). I glued it back together, but did not recut the nut. As a result, my e-string course is very hard to fret at th is sitting wrong: the nut will have to be recut to lower them. Well, I could not only diagnose it myself, but I can do the adjustment myself, I don't have to take it to a luthier. It will just be a pencil, a needle file, and a ruler, and voila! Done.

I don't want to offer to work on your instrument: I'm not that good yet. But particularly if you have a hankering to learn to do it yourself, I don't mind taking a look at it for you to see if there's a serious problem or it's just a set up issue you can handle. More important, I can talk you through the process if you want to get Rob Meldrum's book and learn how. I make no claim to expertise--there are many people in Atlanta who are a lot more accomplished than I, including some luthiers who haunt the café, and if it's a question of me or them, you should choose them. But I could give you guidance if you want to teach yourself.

[Folkmusician.com]

I say take up Belbein's offer. I would honestly trust him more than the average "guitar" luthier. Even if he does not have a ton of experience, he probably has a better understanding of the instrument.

[Delaware]

Im not shilling for anyone here, but I have to say I have been impressed with the advice given by Mr. Fear. When I pull the trigger on that Loar, I will remember the professional and respectful way you responded. I had posted in another thread about the Loar setups and your comments on the instruments themselves was enlightening, as were all responses on here. Thank you all.

[CeeCee_C]

The generosity shown by members of this forum towards each other both comforts me and makes me glad to be an active member of this community.

[notneils]

I posted the issues on the "The Loar production issues" thread and people agreed that a better setup would make it sound better. I took it to a different guitar luthier nearby and he has reset some frets and adjusted the bridge. It did make a difference, but he says that the strings are sitting too close to the frets.

Yeah, even I could tell you that what that is, is a set up issue, which is what you took it to buddy for. So clearly buddy didn't have a clue. I'll chime in with the others and say, with a PROPER set up you will probably be fine.

[Steve Zawacki]

I say take up Belbein's offer. I would honestly trust him more than the average "guitar" luthier. Even if he does not have a ton of experience, he probably has a better understanding of the instrument.

PaulaJ, what do you have to lose? The best case scenario is that you've made a new local friend with a common interest and got your LM-220 up to snuff. The worst case scenarion is that you've made a new local friend with a common interest who can advise on future mandolin quesions/issues. It's a win-win.

[belbein]

I say take up Belbein's offer. I would honestly trust him more than the average "guitar" luthier. Even if he does not have a ton of experience, he probably has a better understanding of the instrument.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Can I get you to write me a letter of recommendation?

[PaulaJ]

Thanks to everyone for so much great information! I second the "local friend with a common interest". Belbein, I am in Roswell. PM me if you want to discuss looking at it.

This helps me focus a bit better. A little bit of additional information - this year is my 50th birthday . I have decided to be a total primadonna about it and I have a deal with my husband to get a better one IF I stick with my lessons and make progress. Basically, I need a "good enough" mandolin to get by while I make a decision. The Loar has some good points, ie it looks good and I already have it. My instructor frowned at the tone and volume, but maybe that is because the bridge is a quarter inch off the saddle?

Next question then is, how long can I expect this type of setup to take?

[Folkmusician.com]

"Next question then is, how long can I expect this type of setup to take?"

This really depends on the level of setup and speed of the one doing the work. At least a couple of hours of straight work, but someone that is not real fast could spend a whole lot more time dressing frets and fitting a bridge.

[mrkrgr]

PaulaJ, you mentioned that the tone is weak and the volume is low? What strings are on your Mando? I find that with light strings the tone isn't that good nor is the volume. I prefer a .040 G string basically a set of J74's by Daddario or PF270's by GHS. I have a Ibanez 517 A model pressed solid top and the heavier strings make it sound fuller. It will never sound as good as my Weber but it sounds aceptable for what it is. If your going to get the mandolin "set up" ensure that it is set up for the strings that you want to use. J74's, to me, aren't that much harder on the hands than light strings. and the tone and volume are much overall. My 2 cents.

[acousticphd]

If your bridge is already adjusted as high as possible (bottom of the saddle 1/4" above the base?) and the strings are still too low/buzzing, that could explain why the previous setups could not set the action correctly - and might explain why one of the luthiers you went to mentioned other "issues", for eg, a fallen top or a too-extreme neck angle.

I still think though that with some with some elbow grease and a little help, you can get by with the mandolin while you learn. For ex, you could shim the bridge up higher and get by, or replace it with a taller bridge. It's also possible the nut slots are cut too deep, but that would be very uncommon on a new, entry level mandolin. Really any experienced guitar setup person should be able to handle nut and bridge adjustments, so it does suggest some other issue(s).

It's a shame to have to go to such lengths to get a new mando playable.