what can one typically expect from a Collings MF?

[darylcrisp]

i have a trade offer and i'm seriously considering it. It does involve the addition of $ on my end. it is returnable of course.
this is a wide nut model, which i think would be neat. i play fingerstyle guitar and most everything i have is nearly 2" wide at the nut-so coming to the mandolin has been, ahem, a different world-but not as difficult as i initially thought it might. the webers and Pava in our house are all 1 1/8" nut widths. I know you play string spacing and not the actual nut width, but i'm thinking that extra 1/16" might impress me-thoughts from any of you who have been there, done that?

i have never played a Collings mandolin. the reputation is excellent as expected. i'm assuming this is considered a hard driving bluegrass unit, but i have heard them played slower and in such a way as to be really nice(on youtube)and having rounded bell quality notes(like the Pava i hope).

those of you who have owned or own one, what attributes do you find in the MF, and what styles of music do you play with yours?

we have 2 weber F style Gallatins(sitka top/maple and a englemann/mahogany) and the Pava A in the house.
what will i hear/feel different in the Collings vs the Webers?

i'm thinking the Pava and Collings will be more close in tone-probably with the MF having a louder projection and more punch(thinking since Pava worked at Collings some of that has carried over in her builds??).

and i probably don't have to explain why i want another mandolin in the house on this forum, but the reason is-the webers belong to my wife and daughter-they are setup for their style play, have their own straps and such on. having experienced the Pava, which is an absolute wonderful mandolin, i have found i don't like the A style and highly prefer the F so i can use the points while playing seated. i use a strap, but i find the F style fits my position perfectly. The A just does not work well for me. i like the webers a lot and had thought to try to get an F of my own, having experienced the red spruce top of the Pava and its tone, i'm thinking the Collings would be the ticket. and i still have two webers to use at times if i want to. variety.

thank you
d

[Tobin]

i'm thinking the Pava and Collings will be more close in tone-probably with the MF having a louder projection and more punch(thinking since Pava worked at Collings some of that has carried over in her builds??).

I don't own a Collings MF, but do own a Pava, and played it next to several Collings models at the shop. That said, I don't find it to be true at all that the Collings has louder projection and punch. Pava's previous employement for Collings has nothing to do with the way the Pava mandolins are built. As I understand it (and I'm always open to correction if I'm mistaken), her work for Collings was more in the finishing work like inlays, binding, etc. I don't think she was graduating tops or doing other tone/volume-defining work.

At any rate, the Pavas are based on the Ellis mandolin line, and really don't bear any characteristics of Collings. I actually found the Pava a tad louder and punchier than the Collings MF and MT mandolins when I played them side-by-side (not a night-and-day difference, but enough that I noticed it). And with a more developed range of tone. Which is why I walked out the door with the Pava and not the Collings.

That's not to say the Collings MF is going to disappoint you at all. I'm sure you'll find it to be a great mandolin with plenty of what you're looking for if you prefer an F-style. And you never know, the one you get may compare differently to the Pava you have than what I experienced. But I would stop well short of expecting too many similarities based on Pava's past employment, as it bears virtually no relevance to the qualities of the instruments which bear her name. They are very Ellis-like, which is a distinctly different sound than Collings.

[darylcrisp]

what i will say is:

if the Pava were a F style build-we would not be having this conversation(er, thread). The Pava is simply excellent if tone, playability, looks, it has it all. And i love the price point.
Having said that, no matter what i do or change, i'm simply not comfortable with an A shape. I tried some friends A models recently and its all the same-using a strap, no strap. I can pull up a F model anything and feel comfortable right off the line. Its a huge difference. Those two bottom points make all the difference with me.
I can play with no perceived tension in my back, arms, hands with a F style. The A immediately tenses up areas no matter what i do-even hanging from a strap. And its not that i blame the mandolin shape, its my body type and things of age related issues.
My time is so limited and i'm starting late(age) with all this, i simply want a nice comfortable mandolin to learn the best i can.
Love the Pava, don't love the A shape. My loss.

anyone else "been there, done that" regarding shapes
d

[pheffernan]

One can typically expect consistent excellence from any Collings instrument. The only question is whether you're interested in the tone that they produce at a consistently excellent level. Certainly, there has been some cross-pollination between the Collings and Ellis shops. From what I understand, they shared space back in the 80's with Bill building custom guitars and Tom building mandolins. I have heard that Ellis helped Collings initially set up his mandolin manufacturing arm, and as you noted, Pava migrated from Collings to Elllis (with a furniture restoration stop in between). That said, I wouldn't expect them to be tonally similar. As far as I know, Tom Ellis is voicing the tops on the Pava mandolins just as he does the Ellis ones, which have a reputation for being a bit darker in tone. Collings, but contrast, are noted for being a bit more modern and crisp. Both should be outstanding, so it comes down to a matter of preference.

[red7flag]

I had a Collins MF that was a beast. It has power and tone to spare. I sold it to get a Collins MF5. While the MF5 had a refinement of tone. I was never as satisfied with the MF5 as I was with the MF. The other MFs I have played have not been as good as the one I had. Hard to describe why. I would buy that MF right now.

[darylcrisp]

i know i really like the sound i hear from Sarah Jarosz when she plays mandolin and its a Collings(heard her live/solo about 3 years ago at Bristol Rhythm & Roots) and we've been fortunate to see her a few more times. I know, as with guitar, tone/sound is largely based on the player, but at the same time certain brands have a characteristic sound.

thanks for the replies and thoughts folks, keep them coming
d

[DataNick]

...As far as I know, Tom Ellis is voicing the tops on the Pava mandolins just as he does the Ellis ones, which have a reputation for being a bit darker in tone...

Mr. Ellis told me on the phone that they carve them all (Pava & Ellis) TOGETHER...no differentiation from a Pava to an Elllis as far as who carves what. Also rumor has it that Pava carved(graduated) Collings mandolins #1-130...

[Phil Goodson]

I owned an MF for a year or so and ended up selling it ONLY because I found my 'soul mate' mandolin and needed to sell some things to pay for it. Otherwise, I would have been very happy for that MF to be my only mandolin. The sound was complex and satisfying. It had a lot of headroom and could be heard very well in a jam.
If you like the sound that Collings puts into their line of mandolins, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute.

[DataNick]

I owned an MF for a year or so and ended up selling it ONLY because I found my 'soul mate' mandolin and needed to sell some things to pay for it...

Now that's a descriptor for the mando at the end of the Grail quest that I can identify with!...I'm in search of my soul mate!

I love it Bro!

[Jay G Miller]

I played many Collings mandos in search of a second mando. I played wide neck and standard, MT, and MF models. I found that though all I have ever heard about was the consistancy of them , I think that's a little bit deceiving if a person takes that as they all sound alike. They don't, and a few individual instruments I played I wouldn't have owned in a million years. Most were at least good though, with only 2 having something above the others in tone. As it were, both outstanding instruments happened to be MT's.

The first one I played had the wide neck. I've played standard neck size my whole life, and Honestly, I never even noticed nor did I know until later when someone told me it was so. Of course that was both my first WN and Collings so i didnt know what to expect. Comparing necks side by side, you can tell, but its not much difference. I love both necks Collings puts out and the playability WAS very consistent, as was fit and finish. Those 2 MT's were quite incredible having the whole package in a big way. However in the end, when I got the Pava in my hands, tonally it was better to my ears. Even new it has a gorgeous bell like ringing and tonal depth that the Collings seemed to lack. I know you're looking for an F so I won't beat that horse. I will advise that you search out and play any Collings you're interested in, because there are a few only fair sounding instruments in the mix, and I'm sure you at least want a good one. Myself I'd search for one of the few, more exceptional sounding instruments, as new they all cost the same. I will also state that tone quality obviously is a personal choice, but for my ears there are better sounding bluegrass instruments than Collings, though they'll certainly do the job. I do think if they are what you want tonally, you would be more then happy with an MF on every other account. Just my opinion.

Have you ever considered a Clark? Wow factor on them!

[darylcrisp]

well, I wimped out!

Actually had the Pava shipped out FedEx for the trade, missed its playability and sound so much I called FedEx and had it stopped and returned back to me.

I thought long and hard and know from guitars you can mess up and do a trade or sell something you regret. I think that would have been the case with the Pava. Being new to mandolins, and since we have two F style webers in the house, I figured it best to take some time, at least a good year, and allow myself to explore this A shape more. I have the webers to satisfy the F shape when needed.

I simply did not give the A shape its due time for me to learn how to play that shape. Definitely need to experiment around with it much more. And in the end, if I just don't work with it well, I'm sure the Pava mandos will still be looked upon quite favorable and then maybe do a trade or sell.

thanks to everybody who replied
d

[pheffernan]

I simply did not give the A shape its due time for me to learn how to play that shape. Definitely need to experiment around with it much more.

I nearly posted this thought earlier in the thread, but frustration mixed with Collings MAS and a bit of scroll envy is a heady combination. Now elevate your left foot and get picking!

[darylcrisp]

[QUOTE=

Have you ever considered a Clark? Wow factor on them![/QUOTE]

have not heard of them, now I will have to research that of course!

thanks for the reply and thoughts
d

[Capt. E]

I see much discussion here comparing Collings and Pava/Ellis, but little mention of Weber. What you really seem to want feedback on is how Weber compares with Collins. Both make a wide nut model, but differ in tone. I have played many Collins and Weber mandolins side by side, trying to compare equivalent models where possible. I consistently prefer the tone, volume, and playing feel of the Webers. I too really love Sarah Jarosz and have heard her play her Collins F at least a dozen times. If she played a Weber I am sure I would love her every bit as much, though I am sure there would be some subtleties of tone etc. My point is that you can play great music with any of the mandolins mentioned above. Have fun exploring and making your choice. You seem to have a great set of instruments already.

[DataNick]

Pat,

When did you get the Pava you rascal!

Congrats Bro!

Now you need a scroll in your stable...LOL!

[pheffernan]

Pat,

When did you get the Pava you rascal!

Congrats Bro!

Now you need a scroll in your stable...LOL!

It made its way to me from the frosty north the Saturday before last and my wordless introduction didn't engender much conversation: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...nto-the-breach. I'd been pining for one since last July, and when the opportunity presented itself, I pounced. I am happily MASless for the moment, and while your Flatiron scrolls do have their appeal, my next purchase is more likely to be a Girouard or a Jacobson.

[Jay G Miller]

have not heard of them, now I will have to research that of course!

thanks for the reply and thoughts
d

http://www.clarkmandolins.com/

Mass Street has a gorgeous Clark F
http://massstreetmusic.com/collections/mandolins

[darylcrisp]

http://www.clarkmandolins.com/

Mass Street has a gorgeous Clark F
http://massstreetmusic.com/collections/mandolins

ah, MassStreet
i know those guys well, i would love to visit that shop, they always have some excellent instruments. i've purchased a guitar or two in the past from them, always a pleasure to buy from

d

[Jay G Miller]

ah, MassStreet
i know those guys well, i would love to visit that shop, they always have some excellent instruments. i've purchased a guitar or two in the past from them, always a pleasure to buy from

d

If you ever do decide to visit them please let me know. I'm about 30 minutes away from them and I'd love to catch ya there. I too have done business a long time with them. I mainly know the long timers there and have a few as friends. Great bunch of top notch folks there.

[J.Albert]

DataNick wrote above:
[[ Mr. Ellis told me on the phone that they carve them all (Pava & Ellis) TOGETHER...no differentiation from a Pava to an Elllis as far as who carves what. ]]

A little off-topic to this particular thread, but I would expect that the Pava A's and the Ellis A's sound very similar. Has anyone ever A-B'd them side-by-side?

[darylcrisp]

DataNick wrote above:
[[ Mr. Ellis told me on the phone that they carve them all (Pava & Ellis) TOGETHER...no differentiation from a Pava to an Elllis as far as who carves what. ]]

A little off-topic to this particular thread, but I would expect that the Pava A's and the Ellis A's sound very similar. Has anyone ever A-B'd them side-by-side?

J
you might find this thread interesting:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...i-ended-up-wit

[Nick Gellie]

DataNick wrote above:
[[ Mr. Ellis told me on the phone that they carve them all (Pava & Ellis) TOGETHER...no differentiation from a Pava to an Elllis as far as who carves what. ]]

A little off-topic to this particular thread, but I would expect that the Pava A's and the Ellis A's sound very similar. Has anyone ever A-B'd them side-by-side?

While I don't want to sidetrack this thread - the OP is about a Collings MF mandolin. I have heard a couple of videos of Pavas and Ellis mandolin. I favour the sound of the Ellis A5s over the Pavas - the Ellis videos were done a few years ago and are not current while the Pava one's are. I am not sure what they do at the TMS but the sound sounds too bright and echoey, when compared to other videos. it might be the room they record the sound in.

The Collings mandolins overall are pretty consistent - so are the Pavas and Ellis's. It is very hard to judge what would be right for you given mandolin tones can get pretty subtle at times. Best to go and play them if you can for comparison.