The Problem of Rootlessness

[st_brickworks]

Genuine hillbilly back-porch pickers, much love to you, but this post is not for you.

I've been getting more and more into bluegrass for the last five years or so, and have been playing mandolin for about the last three. I've recently discovered the wonder that is John Hartford, and it got me thinking about roots. I'm a London-based office worker; my parents are American classical musicians. I feel pretty far-removed from the folk traditions of either country. I know it shouldn't matter so much to me, but I keep comparing myself to people like Hartford (steamboat pilot), Darrell Scott (Kentucky coalminer's son), and so on... When it comes to trying to write my own songs in the bluegrass idiom that I enjoy so much, I just feel like I'm wearing someone else's clothes.

Bluegrassers from outside of bluegrass country, folkie newcomers, what are your thoughts about roots and rootlessness?

[OldSausage]

As someone who lives in the deep south and plays regularly in bluegrass bands and jams here, but was also a London office worker until I was nearly 40, my personal view is that what you're concerned about is just smoke on the breeze. People come to bluegrass from all walks of life, and if you love the music and respect the tradition which you clearly do, then I think you belong.

We all have no choice but to bring our own personalities and backgrounds, skills and prejudices to the music we create. For a bluegrass songwriter, you have an unusual and interesting background, and will no doubt craft songs that are different from others in the genre as a result. But different is good, it's what everyone wants.

[Tobin]

Great post, and lots of food for thought! I think the same is true of almost any culture-based human activity. There are those who grew up immersed in it, or lived the type of life that gives them 'credibility' in it, and there are those who come into it from the outside. In my opinion, there isn't any entry requirement for bluegrass. Loving the music and admiring the lifestyle it depicts is all that really matters. As long as you're not trying to pretend to be something you aren't.

[billhay4]

Gillian Welch.
Bill

[mrmando]

Gillian Welch's dad was the musical director for The Carol Burnett Show ... yet somehow she manages to be rootsy enough to satisfy most listeners.

[nickster60]

I started playing the Blues, played bass in a funk band, play classical violin and jazz saxophone. I went to a bluegrass jam while in Ga and feel in love with the music. I couldn't play any of the other styles of music with my wife who plays the guitar. It seemed to fit and I like the mandolin. I think most of us come from other musical backgrounds and that is probably a good thing.

[jaycat]

Look at John Fogerty. A California boy who was Born on the Bayou.

Remember, it's creative writing, not journalism.

[Beanzy]

Just don't do the mock accent and it's all good to go.
We're blessed for outlets to play BG in the UK, with some amazing people to learn from/with, so it's a case of immerse yourself in the learning, respect it and the fact it comes from elsewhere, but make it your own too and live the music as you sing/play it.
I always think it's a bit like the 'Continental Ceileidh' for we Irish. There's few more rewarding things than to turn to a great fiddler leading a session and ask them where they're from and where they got the touch from, only to be told Dortmund. Awe and respect are what I feel when people really live in an adopted tradition.

And in that vein have you come across Hippy Joe from Essex yet?

[roysboy]

As a music listener / lover I'd much rather listen to a good player who's done his 'wood-shedding' in the genre of his choice out of desire , passion and an emotional connection to the music regardless of where his 'roots' might be than listen to someone whose roots may actually be IN the genre he/she is working within but may not have the skills , the talent , the chops or the commitment . There are LOTS of very mediocre, if not just BAD , bluegrass players who simply want to play out of sheer joy ...and so they should . I'd just prefer not to listen to BAD anything , given the choice . Would you ?
I'm a longtime player who's explored and made a living in several genres and my connection to bluegrass/acoustic music doesn't come from my roots . I've just always been emotionally and spiritually connected to it ...vocally , musically and writing-wise . I don't question it anymore than I question my love of a certain food or sport or ( your example here ) . My response is honest , my appreciation is honest , and my degree of commitment to understanding and learning more about it is not just incredibly rewarding but , at times, borders on being all-consuming . I'm not going to spend time trying , unnecessarily ,to rationalize this connection . I'm going to acknowledge my love of the music spiritually and enjoy the hell out of immersing myself in it as a player and a listener .

[st_brickworks]

Remember, it's creative writing, not journalism.

That's a nice point, thanks. I guess I just need to broaden my definition of 'genuine' - after all, I've got no problem at all with the likes of Gillian Welch.

[nickster60]

You have to be genuine in your own eyes, and your heart.

[OldSausage]

You have to be genuine in your own eyes, and your heart.

Or learn how to fake it

[jaycat]

That's a nice point, thanks. I guess I just need to broaden my definition of 'genuine' - after all, I've got no problem at all with the likes of Gillian Welch.

You're welcome. Wish I could remember where I stole it from.

[Bslot0622]

I've had this discussion with so many people in so many forms. David Grisman, Barry Mitterhoff, and Andy Statman are all New York based Jewish mandolin players, and are some of the most accomplished. This fact alone makes me feel like I'm part of a niche tradition of bluegrass pickers, seeing as how I myself am a Jewish mandolin picker from New York. Bela Fleck is from New York City too, and he can sure pick the fire out of the banjo!

How about Bob Dylan? In this video, you can clearly see Clarence Ashley and Doc Watson listening to him play, and sing what may as well be authentic folk music. But Robert Allen Zimmerman was a Jewish boy from Duluth, Minnesota and yet he's become quintessential in the discussion of American folk music. I believe that the real roots come from what you listen to, how you play, and why you play, rather than geographic and ethnic background.

Here's the video:
http://www.wimp.com/silencedcrowd/

[allenhopkins]

As a middle-class WASP with an Ivy education, I've enthusiastically played bluegrass, Celtic, klezmer, blues, old-timey, and generic "folk" for 50+ years. Coming from a non-Appalachian non-hillbilly background hasn't stopped iconic types like David Grisman, Bela Fleck, Richard Greene, Bill Keith, or Peter Wernick from playing a helluva lot of bluegrass. Nor has it stopped Bonnie Raitt, Andy Cohen or Roy Book Binder from doin' the blues, or Bruce Molsky, Bob Carlin or Ken Perlman from becoming masters of old-time mountain music.

It's what speaks to you, and what you love to play. Bill Monroe once noted that his "hippy" college audiences were more informed and tradition-strict than the Southern country crowds he'd been playing for.

One of my grad school profs quoted a social scientist bemoaning the theory that you had to be immersed in a group in order to properly study its behaviors; taken to the extreme, that means "only cockroaches can study cockroaches." Leaving roaches aside, nowhere does it say that you have to be a hillbilly to play hillbilly music -- or whatever bluegrass is.

[st_brickworks]

At the risk of complicating the discussion - how do you find your personal backgrounds factor into your songwriting?

[Bill Baldridge]

You may find it of interest to check out my mandolin maker and bluegrass banjo player: Sim Daley. Although he now lives near Nashville, he is from Cornwall. Here is an interesting place to start:

http://blog.melbay.com/sim-daley-interview/

or here:

http://www.simdaley.com/

[nickster60]

St Brickworks

I don't write much music I am to busy trying to keep up with all the different instruments I play. I admire you for writing.

[JeffD]

Genuine hillbilly back-porch pickers, much love to you, but this post is not for you.

I've been getting more and more into bluegrass for the last five years or so, and have been playing mandolin for about the last three. I've recently discovered the wonder that is John Hartford, and it got me thinking about roots. I'm a London-based office worker; my parents are American classical musicians. I feel pretty far-removed from the folk traditions of either country. I know it shouldn't matter so much to me, but I keep comparing myself to people like Hartford (steamboat pilot), Darrell Scott (Kentucky coalminer's son), and so on... When it comes to trying to write my own songs in the bluegrass idiom that I enjoy so much, I just feel like I'm wearing someone else's clothes.

Bluegrassers from outside of bluegrass country, folkie newcomers, what are your thoughts about roots and rootlessness?

This is kind of like the endless debates as to whether you have to be black or have a cocaine addiction to play the blues.

According to that logic, most people shouldn't play music at all.

No. My personal belief is you have to respect the tradition in which you are playing, know something about it's musical and cultural history and about the people and life styles it has been a part of, to some extent anyway. But that being said, bring your own experience and musicality to it.

I believe we can claim music we weren't born into. Absolutely.

While I wasn't born into old time music in any measurable way, I am totally in sync with folks throughout history that have had a soul draining job and need to play music with friends on a weekend to restore some of their humanity. While my own profession is modern, my working hard at it and feeling drained afterwards is timeless and universal.

[jaycat]

At the risk of complicating the discussion - how do you find your personal backgrounds factor into your songwriting?

Depends on you define 'personal background.' Certainly my life experiences have influenced what I write. Not to mention all the musical influences absorbed over the years. But none of that is related to where I was born or what color I am, etc.

[mrmando]

I write almost exclusively about the difficulties of having a butler who puts the salad fork where the shellfish fork belongs, maintenance costs of Olympic-size swimming pools, the most effective product for removing the tarnish from gold-plated chandeliers, stuff like that.

[Jim M.]

If you look at the lineup of the later Bluegrass Boys, you will see a lot of young Yankees who came south because of their love for the music (Peter Rowan and Richard Greene come immediately to mind but I know there were others). If they can play Bill Monroe's music, you can too. Roland and Clarence White were born in Maine and grew up in Los Angeles. Cain't get much furthur from bluegrass country than that.

This is from an interview with Bruce Molsky about Tommy Jarrell:
"There’s a great story about Tommy Jarrell. Some Jewish kids from the city came to visit him. He was a really welcoming, nice guy who didn’t have any problem with that. One day Tommy’s sitting around with three or four guys from New York and he’s showing them all the tunes—they’re all having a great time. Suddenly Tommy looks around and realizes who he’s sitting with and says, “Don’t any of you people have your own music?” [Laughter.] As a result of that, Hank Sapoznik, whose grandfather was a rabbi and who grew up in a culturally very strong Jewish household, went back and got involved in Klezmer music. He now runs a huge Klezmer archive in Madison, Wisconsin. He’s a preeminent guy in the field!"

[Mandoplumb]

I read with interest the preceding posts and agree with almost every thing said. The one thing missing is, in all the names of bluegrass artist mentioned, the only first generation named was Monroe. If you are going to play bluegrass, you don't have to be a "hillbilly" but you have to know the roots. Those artist mentioned did.You can hear echoes of Flat&Scruggs Reno&Smilie Stanley Brothers etc. in their music.Now before you label me the bluegrass police, stop and think,you can put wings and a jet engine on a machine and call it a car but that don't make it one. Granted a car today don't look like a first generation car, but it wouldn't be a car if it looked like a first generation airplane or refrigerator now would it. It all goes back to it's roots. Rick

[belbein]

smoke on the breeze

dust in the wind?

[belbein]

This is a fascinating discussion. I hope there's more, being the aesthetics junkie I am.

It reminds me of a long debate I had with my younger son about authenticity and art. He's noticed that his peers (lefty college kids) seem to judge everything based on "authenticity," which is actually their perception of authenticity as generated by various media influences. Not to pick on them, though: my generation wore "authentic" working man's clothing, though not many of us ever had a job where we had to wear "dungarees" to work in.

I like your "cockroaches studying cockroaches," Allen. Great line. Which I shall use the next time the subject comes up.