hmmm should i trade my crummy Savannah to this little girl?

[kevbuch]

She has a guitar she wants to trade for it, and I wouldn't mind having one. The problem is that I think the mandolin is too hard for her. Especially the one I can trade her(I have a jbovier as my main and a Kentucky 140 as a backup). My mandolin is more expensive than her guitar, but the guitar sounds better than the mandolin.

So, what do you think? Would it be a good trade for her? She is 9.

P.S. it's a The Little Mermaid guitar, but that just makes me like it more.

[DataNick]

Just give her the Savannah...

[kevbuch]

Maybe I should tell her I'll lend it to her, if she lets me borrow her guitar and tell her I'll only trade permanently once she learns a song. That way she can make sure she really wants it and I can make sure the trade is more likely to lead to an adorable little mandolinist?

[kevbuch]

I'm not sure I should just give it to her... I've spoiled her rotten in other ways and feel like I'm teaching her an the other kids that they can get whatever they want from me. Also, she's not the only kid and I don't want the others to get jealous.


Now I feel like a jerk u_u maybe I can have her earn it. Her mom could really use more help from her....

[cayuga red]

Maybe I should tell her I'll lend it to her, if she lets me borrow her guitar and tell her I'll only trade permanently once she learns a song. That way she can make sure she really wants it and I can make sure the trade is more likely to lead to an adorable little mandolinist?

Good idea. Hope she enjoys the Savannah.

[Steve Zawacki]

Sounds to me like you have a protege in the making. Are you sure you have a 9-year-old who wants to trade or a 9-year-old who wants your attention and has found a way to get it?

Suggest you lend her the mandolin as you planned, with the back-of-your-mind plan being to give her the mandolin as a birthday or such gift downstream. Don't be surprised if what she's really looking for are lessons with you, and that this is a way for her to command more of your time. If she can play the guitar even a little, the mandolin might even be an easy transition.

Either way, it would be best to speak with the mother and get her okay for whatever you do. She may have some additional ideas about dealing with her 9-year-old daughter, and the mother does have the ultimate say here.

As far as a trade goes, the 9-year-old is too young to make a trade decision like that. The mother may not appreciate it and that could make for difficult times.

[kevbuch]

I made a plan with her mom. The girl has to read for a half hour every day, do all her homework on time and water my plants for two weeks. If she misses one of these, she loses the mandolin for two days and two days are added onto the two weeks. Other than that, once she learns a simple song, it's hers. Also going to ask her if I can borrow her guitar for a couple days, but it's not a requirement.

I hope she does want lessons from me, but does anybody know of a very basic, beginner tutorial video I can download? Hopefully something made for kids ?

[kevbuch]

Also, it's no big deal, but I feel inclined to tell you guys that it's not really a Savannah, it's a jb player. Same quality. I just call all mandolins of such low quality Savannahs.

[belbein]

I have a number of concerns about this whole scenario, Kev, but I am wary of kibbitzing where I'm not wanted. If you want my opinion, you can PM me.

So I shall just observe this: it's a terrible parenting idea to make something positive into a punishment. To take away a musical instrument as a punishment is to turn a positive thing in the girl's life into a negative. Look at it this way. Let's say the little girl loves Brussell Sprouts. If she doesn't behave, are we going to say, "OK, no Brussell Sprouts for you for two days?" It's bad behaviorism and bad parenting. Let her mother take away her Ipad or TV or something. I believe I'm right in guessing that the mother doesn't value musical instruments, so to her the mandolin is the same diversion as some idiotic electric device. She obviously doesn't know that music is the door opening to a whole bunch of good stuff.

And as far as friendship is concerned ... well, I think it's bad friendship to be a party to her mother's machinations. But that's just my gut feel. I hate to be manipulated into being a pawn in a third party's machinations.

[kevbuch]

I have a number of concerns about this whole scenario, Kev, but I am wary of kibbitzing where I'm not wanted. If you want my opinion, you can PM me.

So I shall just observe this: it's a terrible parenting idea to make something positive into a punishment. To take away a musical instrument as a punishment is to turn a positive thing in the girl's life into a negative. Look at it this way. Let's say the little girl loves Brussell Sprouts. If she doesn't behave, are we going to say, "OK, no Brussell Sprouts for you for two days?" It's bad behaviorism and bad parenting. Let her mother take away her Ipad or TV or something. I believe I'm right in guessing that the mother doesn't value musical instruments, so to her the mandolin is the same diversion as some idiotic electric device. She obviously doesn't know that music is the door opening to a whole bunch of good stuff.

And as far as friendship is concerned ... well, I think it's bad friendship to be a party to her mother's machinations. But that's just my gut feel. I hate to be manipulated into being a pawn in a third party's machinations.

Couldn't taking away Brussels sprouts make them want them more? Two days isn't much to pay for nurturing a lifelong healthy habit.

Also, I haven't been manipulated whatsoever. I want the girl to have the mandolin but to know she earned it and I didn't just give it to her, the kid wants the mandolin and the world needs more young mandolinists. It's a win win win win situation. Don't overthink it

[DataNick]

...I want the girl to have the mandolin but to know she earned it and I didn't just give it to her, the kid wants the mandolin and the world needs more young mandolinists. It's a win win win win situation. Don't overthink it

Kev,

Respecftfullly, if you post here people will think upon it...A gift ceases to be a gift when one has to "work" to "earn" it. Part of learning how to navigate in life is how well do you manage the gifts given to you; and there are valuable lessons to be learned in that area. If you want her to "earn" it, you're really selling it to her in a currency that is mutually acceptable. I say as I noted earlier, just give it to the kid...remember the old addage: "It's more _____________ to give than to receive". You will get the most enjoyment/satisifaction out of being able to be a "blessing" to a child....I think you'll feel good about it!

[epicentre]

Just give her the Savannah...

encore. You'll never regret it.

[kevbuch]

I couldn't justgivee it to her, her mom won't let me because the girl is skipping her homework. Also, the mom wanted her to lose the mandolin permanently instead of the two day thing. Anyways, her mom had a beer and calmed down. I convinced her to let me give it to her daughter on the grounds that she proves shes interested in playing it and it won't just sit around like her guitar.

Seriously, though, anybody know a very very very beginner training video?

I have the girl's best interest in mind

[Steve Ostrander]

A friend of my Dad gave me my first guitar and started me on the road to being a musician. He'll never know how much joy it brought me. And untold riches. Okay, lot's of joy.

[mandolinlee]

Read a half hour a day, do all her homework on time and water your plants. OK- where is PRACTICE the mandolin for 15 -30 minutes every day. The only way she will know if she wants to play mandolin is: fumble, stumble, get sore fingers, get hand cramps, attempt to play for a given time daily.

If she fails the chore requirements, don't take the mandolin away for two days as that seems to me a sure route to failure.

If you play mandolin, you can get her started on tuning and 2 finger chords as well as simple tunes w/o a video.

Just my opinion. Good luck.
Lee

[belbein]

So there a bunch of issues. There's one significant one that I will address privately by PM. But here are the issues (not all of which I will comment on).

1. Mom pissed because girl isn't doing homework
2. Girl isn't doing homework
3. Girl's attitude toward school (which we can infer from #2)
4. Mom's punitive attitude, using negative reinforcement
5. Mom's nuclear option ("OK, now you lose it for-E-V-E-R!!!!!!!)
6. Mom's willingness to use something the girl is interested in as a weapon (and possibly take it away forever)

I'm not going to comment on the beer, etc.

This all confirms what I thought, regarding the mother's disregard for musical instruments and music. Someone who will take an instrument away for-EVER!!! does not understand that musical instruments aren't like Gameboys and music isn't like Angry Birds. So, given her lack of understand of what music and instruments are I, personally, would not want to become her hit man.

Nuclear option is bad parenting and, as I said before, bad behaviorism. Particularly if it's something the girl is interested in. Not to say that there's not a place for negative reinforcement in parenting, but you negatively reinforce what you DON'T want someone to do, not something positive. And there is little more positive than music.

Here's the important point. If this girl isn't interested in school, and doesn't have the discipline to do her homework, then there may be a number of things wrong. Maybe she has a learning disability. Maybe she is in a power struggle with her mother (and frankly, I'm already ready to resist her mother's machinations and I don't even know the woman). Or maybe the school is just bad.

But most likely: the girl has not found anything in school that sparked her interest. That means she's not doing her work. That means she's failing in one sense or another. And that means she hates school, so she's not paying attention, and [repeat cycle]. Once her interest is sparked, once she actually does something that means something to her and has some success, then she will start feeling a different sense of her abilities, her worth, and her possibilities. Music can be the key*. And that instrument might be the key to the key. The mother needs to let the kid explore her own world a little bit. And she needs to listen to her kid. [Gasp. Outrage!]

Yes, I know I don't know these people and that I'm relying on hearsay.

- - -
*Truly, no pun intended.

[Steve Zawacki]

And no one has even questioned where's Dad in this matter, and whether some of this mother-daughter conflict is connected with the non-referenced Dad.

[edandjudy3946]

I don't think you should even have to ask that here. Just give her the cheap mando and you'll be the better person for it. Once I got a $1000 Alvarez in a way I should not have (another story). I actually play praise music. I made a mistake. My wife made me aware of how foolish I was and that I could not honor God with that instrument. I could not take it back. I repented and actually GAVE that guitar to a teenager on our praise team who could NEVER have afforded it. . I cannot tell you how it affected that boy AND his mother. It was a painful lesson. Not too long after, God replaced that guitar (by providing the circumstance and finances) with a Taylor 514CE - presently sitting here beside me. Quit orchestrating a plan over an inexpensive instrument you probably don't play and just bless the girl !

[kevbuch]

Girl has bad a.d.d. and, yeah, her mom is terrible with negative/positive reinforcement, but I can't tell her that. Anyways, as I believe I mentioned earlier, the chore stuff is gone. I thought she would enjoy the mandolin more if she knew she earned it. The girl just can't take a lesson from me until she does her homework. Never met the dad, they're going through a divorce. The girls mom is really stressed out by the girls two little brothers (3 and 2) and takes it out on the daughter.

I don't want to be rude, but some of you are kinda overthrowing this. I do agree that it was stupid of me to consider accepting he guitar, though.

[Mike Scott]

I probably shouldn't get involved in what is becoming a less than amiable discussion which I would guess will be locked soon (or at least should be), but gee whiz-here is a guy trying to give a mandolin to a youngster that needs some positive reinforcement and is asked to do some small amount of effort to be able to keep going (I think as an incentive or motivation or whatever), and we are arguing about the motive and looking at it punitively. Man.....................I just don't get it.

[kevbuch]

I probably shouldn't get involved in what is becoming a less than amiable discussion which I would guess will be locked soon (or at least should be), but gee whiz-here is a guy trying to give a mandolin to a youngster that needs some positive reinforcement and is asked to do some small amount of effort to be able to keep going (I think as an incentive or motivation or whatever), and we are arguing about the motive and looking at it punitively. Man.....................I just don't get it.

It bothers me that some think I'm doing something wrong, but it's okay because they're trying to protect a child. I don't see any reason to lock the topic yet.

[fatt-dad]

Don't do business with 9-yr olds. Don't do business with people you don't respect. Do offer to loan a disposable mandolin and be supportave about music.

f-d

[Randi Gormley]

I'll honor the thought and comment on another portion of the question. I don't think you'll find an easy video to help you teach mandolin to a child without some thought as to what aspect you want her to learn. A child with ADD has a short attention span, so having her (or you) watch a video about basic chording or whatnot might not work if it's one of those with a lot of talking. I don't know if you have children of your own or teach for a living, but even the best of kids gets squirmy, stubborn, unhappy or want to give up numerous times if things start to go south. That's all just being a kid and don't take it personally or think it's a permanent condition. Patience, knowing when to take a break and sharing a glass of milk or something does a lot to calm down frustration and most kids have a short recall when they insist they want to give something up.

[belbein]

It bothers me that some think I'm doing something wrong, but it's okay because they're trying to protect a child. I don't see any reason to lock the topic yet.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think your gesture is admirable. And I think your motivation is wonderful. "Good on you," as our Below The Equator friends say. More people should act as you are acting.

Just ... be careful. As my mother used to say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[belbein]

Amen to that!