Teens & '20s Gibson - Mismatched Dot Markers?

[Doug Freeman]

Did Gibson ever use different size and material fretboard dot markers on the same instrument in the teens and '20s? I'm looking at several mandos here and attaching pics of the fretboard dot markers.

First is a 1919 A2 Sheraton Brown, showing frets 5-12. The dot markers are pearl, fairly shiney and white, 6mm in diameter, all the same:


Next is a 1924 A Jr., frets 5-12, as above, shiney and white pearl, 6mm, all the same:


Last is a 1928 A blacktop, frets 3-12, with fret 5 dot missing (hairline crack in fretboard probably allowed it to loosen and fall out). All dots but fret 7 look to be about 5.5mm and are a yellowed celluloid, clearly old and original. Pretty sure that's what the missing dot at fret 5 would have been (that's the size of the hole). Dot 7, however, which also looks never to have been replaced, is the larger 6mm shiney white pearl just like all the dots on the prior two mandos:


I'm going to replace the missing dot, obviously. And I imagined the larger, pearly dot 7 was unoriginal and was going to remove it and replace it with one like the others (yellowed celluloid/pearloid), filling in the extra space around it with ebony dust and glue. But because it otherwise looks old and like it's never been replaced, and because it looks identical to all the markers on the other mandos, now I'm wondering if Gibson might have used one different dot marker on this instrument. Has anyone ever seen that before? Thoughts? Thanks!

[Doug Freeman]

Bumping this, hoping to get some input on whether the mixed dot markers on the '28 A blacktop could be original. Anyone seen that before? Thanks.

[MikeEdgerton]

Have you visited the Mandolin Archive and looked at similar vintage models?

[MikeEdgerton]

I just cruised through the archive. The only 1928 listed has thumbnail sized pictures only (I'm wondering if the archive is having issues as many of the pictures didn't want to expand). I was able to view a 1927 and a 1929 (the 29 was shipped in the 30's) and they all had uniform dots but that doesn't mean much. I imagine that if someone messed up an inlay hole at the factory they might have simply bored it larger and used a larger dot, who knows. If it was repaired years later and the luthier didn't have the right sized dot he probably would have enlarged the hole. So many possibilities.

[sunburst]

I'll go out on a limb here and say Gibson probably did not have a policy of using a different size/material dot for one fret position. Why would they? In a factory, standardization of parts is one of the corner stones of efficiency. In other words, even if someone at Gibson did mess up a hole and grab a 6mm pearl dot to take care of the problem, and it is factory original, I doubt that it was done as a policy on all mandolins at the time.
The missing dot is a good indication that the dot in question has been replaced. Celluloid shrinks and it's not uncommon for a celluloid dot to fall out, and if one did another could have. My bet is on the pearl dot being a replacement, and if I were you, I'd change it to a matching dot (or change the rest to pearl to match it, and have better, though unoriginal, inlays.)

[Doug Freeman]

Many thanks for the comments. Yes, I looked through the archive at the pics of mandos from that period and saw nothing but uniform dots. Which is what I would expect. Hadn't occurred to me this one odd dot might have been the result of a flub at the factory. Maybe I'll just imagine that being true, replace the missing dot and call it a day. The smaller yellowish celluloid dot, of course, will be harder to match. Hoping I can just stain a pearloid dot and get close to it.

[Doug Freeman]

The deed is done. Ground flat the end of an aluminum shaft from an old potentiometer, pretty much the same diameter as the original dots, glued plastic stock onto it, and shaped a couple dot markers for frets 5 & 7. For plastic material I hacked up a repro vintage Stratocaster pickup cover that was about the same color.

Grinding out the larger pearl marker at fret 7 was a nail biter (I'm now convinced it was indeed original, probably used as someone said to cover up a flub at the factory) but got it out cleanly. Filled in the space around the smaller dot marker with ebony dust and glue.

Did a partial refret of frets 1-7 using Stew-Mac 764 stock (.050" wide) to pretty closely match the original .045" wire, which wasn't .037" as everyone seems to say. I guess by '28 they were using slightly wider wire.

OK, I'm sick of working on this thing now, time to play it! And, man, does it sound good! Really full, but not tubby, and sweet top end. Exactly what I've been hoping for.