Fender 'Expo' and LD Maui system update

[almeriastrings]

You may have noticed that Fender announced this at NAMM.

http://www.fender.com/series/fender-...der-expo-120v/

There are no published, detailed specs.... however...

We have previously discussed the LD Systems MAUI II.

I have just seen two side-by side (including one of the first 'Expo' units in Europe) and well... let's just say there is a striking, nay, amazing similarity!

http://www.ld-systems.com/en/complet...system-active/

I shall be giving one of them a test over the next couple of weeks in real, live situations and will let you know how it performs.

[stevedenver]

not to mention the similarity to the Bose
how nice to be able to buy a less expensive PA in this form
wonder how they will sound and surround?

[almeriastrings]

The Maui has been available in Europe for a couple of years and has attracted positive reviews. I tried the Maui 28 in 2012:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?87093

The one I am testing next is the Maui 11 (and the Fender Expo appears to be a re-branded version of the same design).

Street price on these is below $1K, which is really competitive.

[mandroid]

My guess is there are either details that differ , or the Patents may be defended in court .
both are able to pay their Lawyers well enough ..

[almeriastrings]

Both designed by the same people... not copies, just different names on what seems to the the exact same thing. I suspect from the same factory. LD Systems do not market anything in the US so it would make sense to license their design to someone who does have good distribution there.

[mandroid]

No Bose in the EU?

[almeriastrings]

Yes. Plenty of Bose

These designs are quite careful in that although they look quite close to a Bose, and are based on the same line-array principle, they do not infringe any of Bose's proprietary technologies.

[Frankie Sands]

To Whom it may Concern,

I wouldn't get too excited about the Fender Expo just yet. They are being very secretive with respect to technical specs, but I did manage to find one site that stated the class D Amplifier in the sub which powers it and the passive line array is only 150 watts. That coupled with the very modest price tells me that this unit like certain others who make overly optimistic claims, will never be able to handle anything near a crowd of 300 people. Most if not all of the truly good line arrays seem to be made in Europe and units with a true capacity to handle 300 plus people cost more. If your interested in learning more, I suggest you read the very detailed post I wrote yesterday on DJ Forums in response to an inquiry made by someone there seeking information on the new Fender Expo system. I have copied and pasted it below:

DJ GDN,

I "ll be glad to help you out. I have done a lot of research into Line Array Systems, Portable Line Arrays specifically. Unfortunately, most of the better ones are not readily available in this country. They are held in high regard in Europe where most of the top name brands are manufactured such as, the HK Elements system, the F.B.T. Vertus, The Fohhn Linea 100 and the K Array Brand.
You'll notice I did not include either Bose or Fender on the list. In the case of Bose, I have heard them and agree with most of the comments made here. They are very weak on lows/ bass and they absolutely will NOT handle the audience sizes they claim that they will.

I am not a DJ. Rather, I am a professional singer who's stock and trade is Tributes and Impersonations ( Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin & Bobby Darin ). Although I do perform with a band for some gigs, people's finances being what they are in today's economy, most of the gigs I do find me performing to pre-recorded instrumental tracks. For this type of music, clarity and accurate reproduction of voice and music are critical. So, when I sought to acquire a Portable Line Array Sound system, my criteria was that in addition to being easier to transport, set up and breakdown, it had to sound as good as a conventional PA system. The conventional system I had been using consisted of two Mackie 450SRMv2's, a Mackie mixer and Sennheiser Mics and a Mac laptop or iPod as the music source. The Mackies were very powerful and clear for this purpose, but, were heavy to carry and did require a certain "spread" between the speakers to avoid feedback from the mic. So my search for a portable Line array system began.

A good friend of mine who broke me into the business does exactly what I do except he impersonates Elvis. After years of lugging around a pair of JBL speakers, he too was looking for something lighter and more portable without sacrificing sound quality. This was almost 4 years ago when Bose was the only game in town with respect to Portable line arrays. The other brands either weren't in the U.S. yet or were not widely known. He bought the L ll w/ B2 Bass ( the bigger base module ). I sang through it at two shows we did together. I was very impressed with the even distribution of sound throughout the venue, but I was not impressed with the quality of the sound itself.

I recently did a gig with him and was speaking with his wife who runs the system while he performs and she confessed to me that over the years they learned that the system will NOT in any way shape or form, handle the 500 Person events Bose claims it will.

1) It just doesn't have the necessary power to do so and

2) the line array itself ( the bose tower) has 24, 2 inch drivers arrayed at various angles to give 180 degree coverage. These drivers begin from the floor and extend to the top of the tower (92 inches) which is 7 feet 8 inches. This being the case, most of the drivers are below 6 feet. When the unit is setup on one side of the dance floor as is the case at weddings, and the dance floor is filled with people, the sound waves get soaked up by the human bodies and do not carry well to the other side of the dance floor where the rest of the guests are seated. With conventional PA's, you have the luxury of getting the speakers higher up with the use of stands projecting the sound over the crowd.

Another problem is the horizontal coverage area of 180 degrees. While there may be occasions where you might have audience members immediately to your left or right, most of the time the audience is more or less in front you. In those situations, 180 degree coverage means you are sending sound out in directions where you do not need to and sacrifice "throw" in the direction where you do need it.

I was also very turned off by how secretive Bose was with sharing technical information about the product and that made me very suspicious. When a company is asking you to plunk down thousands of dollars on a product, they should be able to answer any question you have. Would you walk into a car dealership and buy a car from a manufacturer who refused to give you specs on the engine and transmission saying it was proprietary information? So much for BOSE.

Fender seems to be taking the same path with the EXPO unit. I can find no technical data on the unit, and the price, being far below that of units that I know to be capable, tells me that this unit is probably not up the task they advertise it for as someone else in this thread has observed. ( As stated above I have since read the amp is only 150 watts).

The companies I mentioned at the beginning of this post are who you should be looking to for portable Line Array systems. There are a few others, but the ones I mentioned are the ones I am most familiar with. I personally passed on the HK units because they did not support phantom power which my condenser mice require, and were a little more than I wanted to spend. The Fohhn units were very expensive AND had to be ordered directly from Europe ( No U.s. Distributor )so I passed on them as well. I had heard good things about the F.B.T. Vertus units, but they have poor customer service here in the U.S, so I passed on them as well.

That left K Array. K Array like the Vertus, is made in Italy and they have partnered with Sennheiser who acts as their exclusive U.S. importer. I have used Sennheiser mics for years and have had a good experience with the company. K Array makes portable line arrays in various sizes. Their Red Line Series are top shelf, but they are Pricey and more than you need. They come in three sizes. I only mention them as evidence of their quality. One of the top Sound reinforcement companies in NYC ( L & M lighting and sound ) considers them their "go to" speakers. They have used them in Avery Fischer Hall in Lincoln Center and at Ivanka Trumps wedding. Suffice it to say K Array is good stuff.

About two years ago they started a Blue Line Series designed for the solo artist, small group market. Currently there is only one model in this line called the KB1( and a slave unit version called the KBR), and it's a beauty. Sennheiser arranged to have a sales rep bring one to Sam Ash in White Plains NY where I could demo it. Everyone at Sam Ash, staff and customer alike was impressed. Unlike Bose, K Array is very forthcoming with product specs. The SPL from the highs is a little less than that of a conventional speaker,( approx 112db - 119db ) but the sound wave is so focused, that drop off over distance is much less so it works fine. The line array consists of eight 3.15 inch drives that sit atop a pole of adjustable height so you CAN get sound over that crowd if need be. The pole itself screws into the subwoofer so it has an even smaller footprint than Bose. The subwoofer is a bonafide sub, one 12 inch speaker of 450 Watts. Trust me, this unit has Bottom! The line array is 240 watts so 690 watts in all. Horizontal dispersion is claimed at 90 degrees but I think it sounds great even outside this range. Vertical dispersion is adjustable from 10 degrees, to 35 degrees or 60 degrees with a computer laptop mixing program which they provide. Or you can use a conventional mixer and leave vertical at 10 degrees. The subwoofer also houses a basic mixer so if you really wanted to you could plug directly into the unit and GO!

Suffice it to say I have been very happy with it in the 5 months since I bought it. It costs $2000 from Sam Ash or guitar Center. They also make a slave unit called the KBR which has no mixer in the subwoofer for $1499. Used together, the KB1 controls both and you have stereo sound. So basically for $3500 you can have two units, giving you more power, better sound and better distribution of sound for a little more than Bose hits you for one unit. And if one unit should go down, you still have one unit to work with. If your single Bose unit goes down?

In any case I hope this information helps you. I spent a great deal of time going over the pros and cons of each choice before I settled on the KB1 so I thought I would share it and hopefully save someone a lot of work.

Regards,

Frankie Sands

[almeriastrings]

To Whom it may Concern,

I wouldn't get too excited about the Fender Expo just yet. They are being very secretive with respect to technical specs, but I did manage to find one site that stated the class D Amplifier in the sub which powers it and the passive line array is only 150 watts. That coupled with the very modest price tells me that this unit like certain others who make overly optimistic claims, will never be able to handle anything near a crowd of 300 people. Most if not all of the truly good line arrays seem to be made in Europe and units with a true capacity to handle 300 plus people cost more. If your interested in learning more, I suggest you read the very detailed post I wrote yesterday on DJ Forums in response to an inquiry made by someone there seeking information on the new Fender Expo system.

Hi Frankie,

Thank you for an interesting review of a system you have never used, in fact never even seen, and one (furthermore) based on hearsay technical data from an unnamed 'site' which I might add is completely inaccurate. It is a good thing we don't review mandolins here on that basis!

I would just like to correct a few points.

You say (somewhat confusingly) that "the class D Amplifier in the sub which powers it and the passive line array is only 150 watts"

You are implying here that there is only one Class D amplifier in the unit. This is incorrect. There are actually three separate power amplifier modules inside. In other words, it is tri-amped. You also refer to the "passive line array". Again, this is factually inaccurate. It is an active line array. You base your conclusions on the reported power of 150 watts. Well, this would be very concerning if true - however, it is not true. The power amp arrangement is as follows:

Sub: 200w RMS
Mid: 70w RMS
High-Mid: 70w RMS

Total: 340w RMS

There is quite a sophisticated DSP based active crossover which also includes a multiband limiter and dedicated EQ function on each frequency channel. The X-over frequencies are (sub) 50-180Hz, (mid) 180-1.2kHz, (high-mid) 180-7kHz and (HF - passive crossover) 7kHz-20kHz.

This makes for a very efficient system, with far fewer losses than seen on passive systems. The Class-D power amplifiers also produce very little excess heat and are well matched to the selected drivers. Continuous max SPL is in the region of 113dB and peak in the region of 121dB.

You also refer to a horizontal dispersion of 180 degrees, but it seems you are talking about the Bose there, not this unit?

FYI this design has a specified horizontal dispersion of 120 degrees, not 180.

I agree with your positive assessment of the FTB Vertus, Fohnn and HK units. I have used FTB a fair bit and like them a lot. They are nicely engineered and sound good. They are, however aimed at a somewhat different market and function. The HK Elements also has some strong points, but a few weaknesses, too. It is rather subjective of course, but they each have their own "sound" which may or may not be ideal for a particular purpose. So do the Bose systems. The area of bass handling differs a lot... here, in a nutshell, some folks like a lot and others prefer a less exaggerated delivery. Music genre covered has much to do with this. As a 'tribute' performer doing popular music to recorded backing tracks, your requirements and preferences will certainly differ from mine and from the majority of users on here, who are looking for a faithful reproduction as possible from traditional stringed instruments (mandolin family, fiddle, banjo, guitar, etc), typically sourced via condenser mics with no pre-recorded content.

I do not wish to comment in detail yet on the performance of the system in question because I have only had it here for a short time and have not yet "put it through its paces" in a range of real-world situations. I can certainly say that I have no doubt that (for the type of music I am involved in, at least), it would not have any issue with audiences in the 250-300 range. Obviously if you do karaoke or heavy metal or disco this would likely not hold true

The only real test I have run so far was for an outdoor Ceilidh and Square Dance, where we had acoustic bass, fiddle, two banjos (!), two acoustic guitars, bodhran, two different mandolins (my F-style and an oval-hole flat-top) and octave mandolin. We ran a 'standard' PA alongside for comparison and as backup. It handled all this very well. It was dynamic, very clean and natural sounding. Audibility was excellent throughout the area and all the musicians commented favourably. At one point I wandered more than 100 yards away and noted that everything still sounded nicely balanced and clear. There were around 50 dancers and another 100 or so people in the audience. It was not even running close to full output. I have yet to test it in indoor environments but will do so over the next few weeks.

They are absolutely not a universal solution to every situation, for for some situations, they work very well. I would not generally recommend them to 'DJ' type users - but for live acoustic music, they can be very viable indeed. It would be a serious mistake to dismiss them just because they do not deliver what is expected in a disco or for a karaoke-style performance.

Watch out for a larger version of the 'Expo'. One with five bands of active Class-D amplification and total RMS output of 400w. There is also a 1.6 kW (!) version of the same design in the works. All of the design and engineering for these was carried in in Germany, incidentally.

You might care to update your 'review' to include the correct information....

It is unfortunate Fender have decided not to issue detailed specs. I suspect this has to do with marketing and pricing in different locations...

[Frankie Sands]

almeriastrings,

Thank you for your input, but there is no need for me to update my "review". In point of fact if you read the "review" in it's entirety, I qualified everything by saying that 1) I had not seen technical details from Fender and 2) the specs on the wattage did not come from Fender and was obtained from another site.

As it regards 180 degrees of horizontal dispersion, I never claimed that the Fender Expo was claiming 180 degrees horizontal dispersion. Since the thread was comparing the new Fender Expo with the Bose System, I was addressing some of the cons associated with 180 degrees horizontal dispersion that the Bose Units have.

I was also referencing the Bose system because, since the thread was comparing the Bose to the Fender Expo, claiming they were similar, I wanted to point out that despite Bose claims regarding the audience capacity, that the claims are overstated. This I know from personal experience with the unit and from the very credible input of my friend who has used the most powerful of the Bose Towers with the largest Base Module for four years now and he does over 100 gigs a year. By way of comparison then, I was attempting to demonstrate that if the Bose Units were incapable of living up to their claimed audience size, then the Fender Expo certainly could not.

Now that you have been good enough to provide detailed specs on the wattage of the subwoofer and the line array, I will double down on my assertion. That Unit will NEVER handle an audience of 300 people real people who are conversing and dancing and basically having a good time. For a DJ, that is the real life situation he or she will be faced with. In my case, most people who come to my shows are there to listen so if anyone could get away with less power it's me, not a DJ. Even at that, it would never handle an audience of 300 for me.

All that having been said, if you put the Fender Expo in an empty room capable of holding 300 people, I'm sure it will fill the room with sound. You put 300 people in that room in a real life social situation and you can forget it.

You state the Fender Expo has a total wattage of 340 watts. Accepting that as fact, I again re-iterate that it will never handle an audience of that size. I say this by drawing on years of experience performing coupled with support data I received from other professionals in the field as well as the manufacturers of products I have used.

Mackie for example is known to make speakers that can get really loud with a lot of "Throw". My two Mackie SRM 450v2's give me a combined 800 Watts of power and Mackie has told me that using them as I do, ( my vocals plus tracks ) an audience of 200 is the upper limit. For my voice alone it would be more, but we are also talking 800 watts vs 340 watts.

With regard to my line array system, the K Array KB1 which you did not address at all, has a combined total of 690 watts, 450 to the sub and 240 to the line array, and IT will not handle an audience of 300 using it as I do. In a real audience / party situation I place it's limit at about 125 people. I know my estimates to be credible, because I use my systems regularly. I do upwards of 85 - 100 gigs a year at everything from weddings, to corporate events, to private parties to restaurants. Further, that is also the number I was given by the folks at L & M lighting and sound. They are experts at live sound reinforcement, they do not sell sound systems and so have no reason to recommend a system unless they really felt it was good or criticize it unless they felt it was substandard ( They give Bose very Low make by the way). They are very big on the K Array units ( Of course they use the pro Redline series units as I mentioned in my original post ).

If you had two KB1 units you could handle an audience of 250 - 300 people. This number is perfectly in harmony with the Unit's specs. That coupled with the efficiency of the line array technology, would allow two KB1's to handle an audience larger than my two Mackies could handle.

What new, bigger units Fender has planned for the future, I do not know. I do know that based on my personal experience, conversations with other experts in the field, and other performers, this unit will not handle an audience of 300. In fact NONE of the other line array companies you mentioned ( HK in particular is very realistic about audience size) claim an audience size of even close to 300 for one unit of their base models ( The base models are the closest in spec to the expo, but are all more powerful than the expo).

The Expo may be a nice little unit for coffee houses with audiences of 50 - 70 people, but I wouldn't rely on it for more than that. You generally get what you pay for. None of the other manufacturers offer a unit they claim can handle an audience of that size for that price OR with those anemic specs. Something was skimped on somewhere. Figures don't lie, which is why I suspect Fender has been less than forthcoming in providing them. If they did, people would be able to readily compare the Expo to the competition and they would pass it by.

I'm one of the top Frank Sinatra Tribute Artists on the East Coast and I've perfumed at everything from small restaurant gigs, to Regis Philbin's retirement party. I work Every SINGLE WEEK, multiple gigs a week. I'm not some weekend schlump gigging once in a blue moon at bars for $100, but hey, if you have it and you like it, great. To each his own. It's still new so the jury is still out, but from I've seen so far, heard on youtube.com and now with the specs you provided, I would never consider it.

Frankie Sands

[almeriastrings]

You state the Fender Expo has a total wattage of 340 watts. Accepting that as fact, I again re-iterate that it will never handle an audience of that size. I say this by drawing on years of experience performing coupled with support data I received from other professionals in the field as well as the manufacturers of products I have used.

Mackie for example is known to make speakers that can get really loud with a lot of "Throw". My two Mackie SRM 450v2's give me a combined 800 Watts of power and Mackie has told me that using them as I do, ( my vocals plus tracks ) an audience of 200 is the upper limit. For my voice alone it would be more, but we are also talking 800 watts vs 340 watts.

With regard to my line array system, the K Array KB1 which you did not address at all, has a combined total of 690 watts, 450 to the sub and 240 to the line array, and IT will not handle an audience of 300 using it as I do. In a real audience / party situation I place it's limit at about 125 people. I know my estimates to be credible, because I use my systems regularly. I do upwards of 85 - 100 gigs a year at everything from weddings, to corporate events, to private parties to restaurants. Further, that is also the number I was given by the folks at L & M lighting and sound. They are experts at live sound reinforcement, they do not sell sound systems and so have no reason to recommend a system unless they really felt it was good or criticize it unless they felt it was substandard ( They give Bose very Low make by the way). They are very big on the K Array units ( Of course they use the pro Redline series units as I mentioned in my original post ).

What new, bigger units Fender has planned for the future, I do not know. I do know that based on my personal experience, conversations with other experts in the field, and other performers, this unit will not handle an audience of 300. In fact NONE of the other line array companies you mentioned ( HK in particular is very realistic about audience size) claim an audience size of even close to 300 for one unit of their base models ( The base models are the closest in spec to the expo, but are all more powerful than the expo).

The Expo may be a nice little unit for coffee houses with audiences of 50 - 70 people, but I wouldn't rely on it for more than that. You generally get what you pay for. None of the other manufacturers offer a unit they claim can handle an audience of that size for that price OR with those anemic specs. Something was skimped on somewhere. Figures don't lie, which is why I suspect Fender has been less than forthcoming in providing them. If they did, people would be able to readily compare the Expo to the competition and they would pass it by.

I'm one of the top Frank Sinatra Tribute Artists on the East Coast and I've perfumed at everything from small restaurant gigs, to Regis Philbin's retirement party. I work Every SINGLE WEEK, multiple gigs a week. I'm not some weekend schlump gigging once in a blue moon at bars for $100, but hey, if you have it and you like it, great. To each his own. It's still new so the jury is still out, but from I've seen so far, heard on youtube.com and now with the specs you provided, I would never consider it.

\

Hi Frankie,

I did mention this before, but it needs to be said again. We are not all DJ's or 'pop' acts and we do not all perform the same kinds of music to the same audiences. Neither are we all impersonators or perform to backing tracks. Many of us (certainly here) play traditional music to audiences used to that kind of music and with totally different expectations (and behaviors) to audiences more accustomed to pop and rock music. That is not what we do. Believe it or not, when we perform, the audiences are attentive and quiet. They actually want to hear every note.... I also run sound for classical performers from soloists to string quartets, and also for traditional Spanish music events - classical or flamenco guitar recitals, etc. I do not need 800 watts of amplification for a solo guitar recital to an audience of 200! Seriously! The audience are quiet, polite and treat it as the main event, not as background music to talk or shout over. What they do demand is very high fidelity and accuracy. So, we will be using DPA, Neumann and Schoeps microphones and while we do not require high SPL's or earth-shaking bass, we do need excellent, even coverage, a very good dynamic range, and excellent transient response. We have (for almost 3 years) very successfully used the Fishman SA220's in this role. These would be entirely useless for your purposes, but they are outstandingly good performers by the criteria we require. I can (and have, many times) covered audiences of around 200 with just a single one of these (220w RMS). For larger audiences and outdoors, we interlink them. You need to understand that music goes beyond disco, DJ's and popular music to backing tracks. Your requirements are totally different. You should not therefore assume what we can and cannot do with this kind of equipment. Your music is different. Your audiences are different. I absolutely guarantee you we would have no problem covering an audience of 200 with the Fender Expo/Maui II. Please do not assume that we do not know what we are talking about... to put this yet another way, a heavy rock outfit would find your own system feeble and totally inadequate. Their needs are different again. Their audiences are different. I try to avoid getting involved in sound for those kind of bands these days (I value my hearing too much), but when I did, we thought nothing of 8-12Kw rigs....for audiences and venues of a size we can manage perfectly happily with "only" 500w, or even less.

The Fender Expo is not a new design. It is a tried and tested one. It has been on the market for several years in Europe under another name and has proved very popular and successful for its target uses: solo acoustic musicians, small live bands, duos, traditional performers, etc. It is not aimed or marketed at rock bands, disco operators, karaoke or that kind of thing. I know several jazz performers, however that really like them and use them several times a week. Some of those, like yourself, do perform in restaurants.

There are many people here who use Bose systems too. They also get excellent results. There are others who use more standard powered speaker systems in various configurations. These can all work very well if used correctly and if they are chosen appropriately for the performer and the audience/venue. One of the first things I learned many years ago was that there is no single, universally correct or best solution to every situation. You need to learn what is required in any given circumstance, and if you are providing the sound, you need to adequately understand the pros and cons and technical capabilities of all the available options. You also need to know how to use those to maximum advantage. You do not make unfounded assumptions that what works for you personally is going to be the right answer for everyone else.

[Frankie Sands]

First of all, I made a point of stating that my original post on this thread I copied and pasted from a DJ forum where I wrote to help someone out who was a DJ looking to use a Fender Expo for that purpose.

Secondly, I write for an American audience. I know American audiences. I have no idea how attentive or courteous European audiences are or aren't ( Although based on what I've seen at some of your Soccer stadiums they seem an unruly bunch even by American Standards). Based on this two caveats my statements are as relevant and as accurate as I originally claimed them to be.

Regardless of how quiet your audiences are, I still question the ability of one Fender Expo to handle an audience of 300 indoors or outdoors, but hey if you're happy with it, fine. I'm not in Spain. I'm in NYC in the United States. The Fender Expo will not fly here for the audience size they are claiming for it. Myself and others have already seen this this with the Bose Units. Virtually everyone who has one has learned the hard way that the claims made for the units by Bose are overly optimistic and false. There are simply too many options here, better than the Expo to be had for not much more money. It's use here will be confined to small audiences as I stated earlier. 200 -300 people? You won't see the expo being used here inn the U.S. for that. Enough said.

Frankie Sands

[almeriastrings]

Frankie,

There are many very satisfied Bose users. If there were not, would they still be making them? I think not.

You simply cannot seem to get your head around the fact that different musicians and users have very different requirements from your own. No-one is saying they are the best thing for all kinds of music in every situation. They are not. Then, neither are your Mackie SRM 450's. I've used them - many times - and I don't like them. Highly colored, poor transient handling. If I do use a system of that kind, I prefer 10" (or even 8") LF drivers and better overall design and build quality, QSC's for example.

You clearly don't know the first thing about American traditional and classical music audiences, by the way...

Frankie (Sinatra, doubtless), Sands (the hotel?) - New Jersey? My wife is from Bergen County

[Frankie Sands]

Kid,

Have it you way. I couldn't care less. I wrote what I wrote and I stand by it. If you love your unit I'm happy for you. Insulting me and telling me that I don't know the first thing about popular music is wrong and will get you nowhere. I'm the top vendor at what I do in the entire Northeast and I make over six figures doing it. Obviously someone thinks I know something.

Further, YOU can't seem to get YOUR head around the fact, that you're not simply disagreeing with my assessment, but with the assessment of the top professional sound reinforcement company in the Tri State Area, L & M Sound and Light and they wouldn't recommend a unit of that output, REGARDLESS OF WHO MAKES IT, for and audience of 300 REGARDLESS OF WHAT TYPE OF MUSIC IT WAS OR WHO WAS LISTENING TO IT.

So why don't you carry on your little crusade with them and leave me out of it. Here's there contact information.

L&M Sound & Light
www.lmsound.com/
A full service sound, lighting, video design and rental company.
Google+ page · Be the first to review
Mariners Harbor, New York, NY
(718) 720-4213

If you really think you know so much about sound, why don't you run your assertion by them and see what they say.
And what your wife originally coming from Bergen County NJ has to do with any of this is beyond me. I'm done with you and this forum. So enjoy strumming your mandolin through your Fender Expo to your adoring audiences. I the man who knows nothing about music will simply have to remain content with performing 120 times a year at a thousand a performance minimum. Somehow, I think I will get by.

[Frankie Sands]

P.S.

You did say that the Fender Expo is simply a re-branded LD Maui 11 correct? Good. After L & M Sound and lighting stop laughing at you, go argue with LD, THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE IT. Here's a link to their youtube product info video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LSOTAmvpCU . In the first 30 seconds he tells the audience size. Want to guess? Up to 100 people. Which is exactly what I wrote. End of discussion. I let the manufacturers own words speak for me. End of discussion.

[almeriastrings]

Thank you for calling me a "kid" Frankie. No-one has done than in over 40 years. I'm flattered.

You are still totally failing to take on board that you cannot give a universally accurate audience capability for any system. It depends on multiple factors, as indeed the manufacturers do take pains to point out:

Moreover, the “MAUI 11″ is light, sets up quickly, and, according to the manufacturer, offers enough power to provide sound reinforcement for audiences of around 300 persons when two systems are used. That surely also depends on the room acoustics, the style of music involved, and the background noise (300 people can be very loud).

They are talking there very generally, and I do agree with them that for some styles of music in some conditions you may well need two to cover 300 people. However.... for what I do, you do not.

I remind you that you are still making these pronouncements about a system you have zero experience of, did not even know the basic specs of, have never used or even seen one and furthermore appear to be completely clueless as to the fundamental differences between a solo mandolin or classical guitar performance to a seated audience and a rendition of "My Way" to backing tracks at a garden party! The fact that you come onto a forum like this and refer to "strumming a mandolin" is clear evidence you really are totally out of your depth and need to try to learn more about traditional musical forms.

Unlike yourself, I actually have one here on test and have already used it at one event. There were approximately 150 people present (outdoors) and it handled it extremely easily. It was not even close to running out of steam or coverage. This is a fact - not guesswork. I have stated so many times I have lost count that it is not an ideal system for certain applications. Also audience coverage capability will vary with musical genre, venue acoustics, and audience type. This is true of all systems. However, with many years professional audio engineering experience specializing in acoustic and classical performances, I can positively guarantee than in these particular situations this unit will easily deal with many more than 100 persons present. The fact that it may not do so for a mobile DJ is completely irrelevant.

[Frankie Sands]

It's you who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about. I said something you didn't want to hear, so you attempted to discredit me and insult my ability as a performer. Then I presented you with the top sound company in NY saying the same thing and you just disregarded that because it didn't support your fantasy. Then I present you with testimony from the people who make the damn thing and now you're trying to parse words with them! He didn't qualify his remarks saying" but IF your playing acoustic guitar you can do 300 people". No, he placed the upper limit at 100 and now you're trying to say it could 300 IF you playing to a seated audience. A 150 people ( 50% more than the people who MAKE it claim it can handle ) I might buy. Three times what they say is max? Like the saying goes. When the hold world tells you your drunk lie down! I'll have no further conversation with the likes of you. A half baked jerk who doesn't have the education to admit when he's wrong. I don't just sing you schmuck. I've been an accomplished jazz drummer and leader of my own quartets since I was 18. I'm 55 now and I have made and continue to make more money playing and singing than you will ever see so don't you dare speak to me like some rank amateur! I'm the top man in my field in the country with the most critical, and most lucrative audiences in the world! Not some half baked bankrupt country in the E.U. So go play away in andalusia, but don't insult my ability again. I have the top players in NY in my band and I wouldn't hire you on a bet.

[almeriastrings]

Your hugely offensive (and racist) post reveals all I think we really need to know about you.

I have politely pointed out that you continue to rant on about a system you have never seen or used and have made comments about it that were based on completely incorrect information. Also, that you really do not know of understand much (if anything) about how sound systems have to behave very differently for different musical genres in different situations. I am sorry if that upsets you.