Can lighter strings be louder ?

[Davey]

I've just restrung my Eastman MD404 with 10 to 36 Ernie Ball instead of 10 to 40 Addario and raised the action a tiny bit on the treble side as I had a little buzz somewhere on the A strings.

The whole thing seems to resonate more. Could it be that the previous strings were stopping the top from vibrating ? They did feel quite a lot tighter, maybe the string core is heavier.

[jshane]

I doubt that the other strings were inhibiting the top's vibrations--- I bet it is just that you have found a better string set for that particular mandolin. My opinion.

[Tobin]

Yep, each mandolin will be different. I had one that I tried to put heavy strings on to get more volume out of it, and all it did was sound muffled compared to medium gauge strings. I'm guessing it somehow was dampening the top with that much force. Yours likely has a similar issue between mediums and lights.

[sunburst]

When we pick a string we set it in motion. It takes more energy to set something heavy in motion that to set something light in motion, so yes, light strings can be louder because it takes less energy to set them in motion. It is also true that picking a heavier string sets more mass in motion, and that can move the mandolin more, so generally speaking, heavier strings can be played louder, by picking harder, than can light strings. The mandolin in question has to have enough "head room" to generate more sound from the heavier strings, however, in order for that to be true.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The downside is that light strings posses less energy,therefor they have less energy to impart to the top of the instrument,so realisticlly,the instrument 'should' be less loud unless you pick them harder. A fellow cafe member & owner of a Hedien "A" style found exactly that when he was using Thomastik strings on it. The strings simply couldn't make the top respond no matter how hard he picked. In fact if he picked too hard on it all he got was a stringy, stretchy,twangy sound,as though the strings were coming out of the bridge slots. A change to J74's sorted the problem out & a further improvement was gained when he changed to DR 'medium' strings. I agree with what John Hamlett says,but on hearing strings which are maybe a bit 'too' light, i feel that i'm hearing the 'string itself' & less of the instrument,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

Short tale from physics:

Every oscillating system has a certain "window" of oscillation amplitude where its behavior is linear, i.e. normal. Below the window (too little input), the system won't oscillate at all (any input is damped out immediatly), above the window, the system will oscillate non-linear because of physical limitations (non-harmonic overtones and noises - turn up the gain switch of your favourite tube guitar amp to get that, for instance).
On a stringed instrument, strings and top each are oscillating systems respectively, and in an ideal world they have identical amplitude windows. Changing the string gauge shifts the strings window against the top window, making them fit better or worse.

Thus, for each instrument there is an ideal set of string gauges, and finding those can be a long time of experimentation. In an ideal world (again), the luthier has done this for you and recommended the best string gauges.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Bertram - "Thus, for each instrument there is an ideal set of string gauges,.....". I tend to agree with this,but what about strings of the same gauge producing a very different tone / volume ?. That's something which i've puzzled over for a while now. I recently changed string brands from D'Addario J74's,to DR MD11 'mediums',exactly the same string gauges in each set. However,the tonal qualities /volume of the DR's on my Weber are nothing short of incredible compared to the J74 tone / volume. The volume has increased by 50% & the tone is very strong & 'punchy'. I'm assuming that because the strigs are of the same gauge,that the tension to bring them up to pitch must be the same - or is it ?. I know that the DR's are 'hand made' & i'm sure i've read that the wound strings are 'compression wound' ie.the strings are wound & have a larger diameter than required,so they are 'rolled' to reduce the diameter,which compresses the windings. I can imagine that this would maybe change the tonal qualities of the G & D strings to make them sound more powerful,but the A & E strings which are plain wire,also sound more powerful. So,are they 'borrowing' some power from the G's & D's. Without placing strain gauges onto mandolin strings on a mandolin strung firstly with J74's on it & then DR's,it's hard to figure out what's going on to cause such a change in tone / volume.
Maybe best just to accept it - but we're creatures imbued with a shed load of curiosity aren't we ?.Meanwhile over in the lab..... ,
Ivan

[UsuallyPickin]

BH and IK ..... I once again both appreciate and enjoy your input. My ear has known for years that a certain instrument will sound better with a certain set of strings. It never occurred to me to look to physics for the reason even though I am "aware" of the physics of sound ...just not a student of the science .. it only makes sense.... of course... nicely put Gents .... R/

[Dave Cohen]

I like Bertram's point, but I am not so sure that the nonlinearity is all that is involved. Actually, all strings (except ideal, non-stiff ones) are slightly nonlinear, and not completely harmonic. It is just that the deviations from harmonic behavior under ordinary circumstances are small enough that most do not notice it. Completely harmonic means, among other things, that the 2nd harmonic is exactly 2x the frequency of the 1st harmonic, the 3rd is exactly 3x the frequency of the 1st, and so on. Wanna see some nonlinearity? Tune a string using an electronic tuner. You will notice that the pitch is initially higher, but drops off a bit as the amplitude of the string motion decreases. If the string behavior were completely linear, the frequency (aka "pitch") would not depend on amplitude.

What is more likely to interfere with "ideal" string behavior in the case of lighter strings (unless they are an awful lot lighter) is simply that you will drive them to the point at which they start buzzing, either against the frets or against each other, before they get to the point at which they start to exhibit significant nonlinear behavior. At that point, they are effectively at the upper limit of their volume.

Neither lighter gauge strings nor heavier gauge strings are "louder" in actual practice. Imo, you get more responsiveness from lighter gauge strings. That is, you get reasonable volume from modest effort. But you get more of what most players refer to as "headroom" from relativel heavier gauge strings. You can play harder, with more resultant volume, from relatively heavier gauge strings before they reach the point at which they start to buzz against frets or each other.

http://www.Cohenmando.cmo/

[Bertram Henze]

Isn't buzzing against the frets just another non-linear feature of the system as a whole?

[Dave Cohen]

Bertram, I suppose that you could say that buzzing is way the heck away from linear behavior. It's just that it isn't the nonlinear behavior to which you were referring in your post #6.

http://www.Cohenmando.com/

[mandroid]

You can lay harder into thicker strings and they will move the soundboard more..

davey may be just noticing the difference New strings make,
after you got used to the sound coming from your old ones.