Octaves: Weber Gallatin A (F holes) or Crump OM-III?

[dinobili]

Still looking for my son who wants something different than his mando or guitar. Saw both of these as contenders...know it's a personal thing...but looking to this forum and your expertise to inform me who knows little about this...except when I hear good stuff, I know it.

I heard the OM-II on his website and it sounds amazing. Have not heard a good clip from the Weber.

Thanks, Mark

[Steve L]

Based on some, but limited experience of hearing and playing both brands, I would take a Crump any day of the week. Purely based on my sound preferences and not workmanship which is excellent on both. Webers to me have a somewhat dark, tubby sound which, coming from Irish music, is not what I'm looking for. I believe there's also the issue of flat top (Crump...possibly induced arch) to carved top which are very different from each other.

[Mandobart]

My absolute favorite OM of the many I've played:



Get yours here.

Weber, Herb Taylor, Crump, and more are very fine instruments. But the tone and playability of this F4 by TJ beats them all. It also doesn't hurt that I spent less than half of what the equivalent instrument by the other guys would have been. NFI.

[dmcginnis]

Well, I have not played many Webers, but I agree with Steve L that the ones I have tried sounded a bit tubby. I own a Crump bouzouki and it is a marvelous instrument. I highly recommend the Crumps. But, I also want to point out the amazingly affordable custom instruments made by Paddy Burgin in New Zealand. I had him build a redwood/walnut octave mandolin (see http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ghlight=burgin) and it is a fantastic sounding instrument. The Burgin and Crump have some similarities in tone and sustain, but they are different wood sets, so the actual sound is different. Both are really great instruments. A good friend just ordered up a Burgin OM after playing mine, and he will get it in late July - about a 2.5 month wait period. Not too bad.

Cheers,
Dave

[fredhicks]

OK....I will admit I don't know the term tubby. What does a "tubby" sound mean? Any clip I have seen on YouTube, the Weber's sound great. I am kind of looking to get rid of my mandolin and buy an octave.

[Steve L]

If you're familiar with electric guitars, tubby would be like having a Gibson ES-175 with the neck pickup on. I prefer something more like a solid body single coil sound. If you like the sound of Webers, then that's for you. They make very good instruments, I happen to prefer octaves that are voiced a bit brighter.

[Bob Clark]

It really depends on personal taste and genre of music you will play. There is a really big difference between a flat-top OM and a carved, arch-top OM just as there is a big difference between their equivalent mandolins (of which I have both because each has their place). There is also a difference between ff holes and Ovals, but I think the greater difference is between the flats and the arched tops.

I personally prefer carved arch-top OMs and have a great arch-top oval hole (D-hole to be specific) Weber that I really love. The sound is complex and refined and perhaps what some would describe as 'darker' than that of the flat-tops. For my style of playing, I find the flat-top OMs too bright. When I play my OM, I am really looking for the deep bass and really, really long sustain that the Weber arch-tops deliver in spades. Whichever you choose, I hope you like it as much as I like mine. They are wonderful instruments to play and to listen to.

Best wishes,

Bob

[Steve L]

I think a lot of what drives taste is "imprinting", the first exposure you have that grabs you. Mine was Irish music of the late 70s and 80s for mandolin family instruments. Whatever it was that people were playing that did "that", I wanted one.

[Bob Clark]

I think a lot of what drives taste is "imprinting", the first exposure you have that grabs you.

I never thought of it that way but you may be right, in which case, it's pretty funny. You mean we're a lot like ducklings? Oh well, I've been compared to worse than that!

Best wishes,

Bob

[foldedpath]

OK....I will admit I don't know the term tubby. What does a "tubby" sound mean? Any clip I have seen on YouTube, the Weber's sound great. I am kind of looking to get rid of my mandolin and buy an octave.

Okay, take everything below (except the YouTube links) with a grain of salt, because we're getting into personal preference here. What some folks call "tubby" with an archtop OM, I'd call focused and midrangy, compared to a flattop.

I think it's a Cafe convention now to describe the general sound we look for in these instruments as a sort of ""chorrnng"... the ringing sustain you don't hear in a mandoln.

With an archtop instrument, especially one with F-holes, the middle "orrn" is the dominant part of the sound. It's a focused midrange emphasis that some may call dark, and others might call tubby.

With a flattop OM, the build is more similar to a guitar and you hear more of the "ch...nng" in the upper frequencies. This is especially emphasized in bouzoukis, and I think many 'zouk players like the way this cuts through the sound of other instruments when backing in an Irish session.

That may be a dumb over-generalization, but maybe it will help. Personally, I like the "darker" and more focused archtop/F-hole sound. It works well enough in a session, and I just love it when playing alone at home. Here are two very fine players using archtop/F-hole Webers with that kind of tone:

[fredhicks]

Oh yeah......listened to those two video's a couple of times. I definitely like oval hole mandolins better than f-hole. If I end up selling my mandolin (1924 F4 Gibson) I would have enough to buy the bottom level Weber Octave and still have $2500 left over. I like the sound of Sierra's instrument better.....but then again it could just be her. Now....in my perfect world they would both play those same tunes and then reach down and pick up the same instruments with an oval or D hole to see how it directly compares. I just don't live near any stores that carry an octave. Seattle is probably the closest and that would be around 6 hours each way. But then again.....Bend is only a little bit further than that.

[foldedpath]

I like the sound of Sierra's instrument better.....but then again it could just be her.

Sierra's OM sounds brighter, but I'd chalk that up mostly to different microphones and recording chains in different rooms. Maybe a bit of difference in technique and pick choice. The body volume and construction is the same on both models, and my F-style Yellowstone OM is in that same ballpark for tone.

An oval hole archtop Weber will sound a little different, maybe a little more "open" with more volume to the player's ear and less projection across the room (vast generalizations there). But it will still be in that same general family for tone, vs. a flattop OM.

[Mandobart]

...I would have enough to buy the bottom level Weber Octave and still have $2500 left over. I like the sound of Sierra's instrument better.....Seattle is probably the closest and that would be around 6 hours each way. But then again.....Bend is only a little bit further than that.

Again, NFI but there are other builders like Tom Jessen, Joe Mendel and others that can build you an awesome instrument for less than a Weber.

Greg Boyd's in Missoula may be closer than Bend, and he always carries a great selection. Call ahead. Same with Dusty Strings in Seattle (Fremont). Call and see what they have before hitting the road.

[dinobili]

Ok - received the Crump OM-III. It was a s advertised 'like new'; I couldn't find a mark, nick, or scratch on it. I doubt it was played. Is that bad or good? Looking for some advise on set-up. Are strings for it hard to find - specific to octaves - or all just the same cut to different lengths? (I am not a musician - remember it's for my son). He has played mandolin and guitar and plays mostly bluegrass. I won't be able to get it to him for a few days and the return clock is ticking so I'd like to have some up front data to best prepare. (I know - should have asked sooner.)
Thanks, Mark

[Eddie Sheehy]

Even though you didn't buy it from him Phil will be very helpful as to what string gauges to use, drop him an email. Daddario, John Pearse, Curt Mangan all make Octave Mandolin sets. Martin Stillion (Emando.com) sells custom sets - including flatwounds. Check it for a straight neck and 'reasonable' string height at the 12th fret. Using a tuner check the note of an open string against that string pressed at the 12th fret - it should register the same on a tuner (or very close). Check that the tuners aren't bent and move freely (might need a drop of gun-oil). Check the top for 'sinkage'. Listen for rattles or buzzing when you strum the strings or tap the top. Push the strings to the side and see if the frets are notched or worn excessively. It doesn't matter that strings may be too long... as long as they are long enough - GHS mandolin strings would almost fit a guitar. Cosmetic issues (varnish lines, wear spots, discoloration, varnish-crazing) are just for the finicky, they do not affect the sound or playability - but watch out for hairline cracks in the wood. Wishing your son years of enjoyment and a good case of OMAS...

[acousticphd]

Sort of on the subject ... : This past weekend I was taking a stroll through Centennial Park here in Nashville, and came upon a fellow playing a lovely 2-pt Crump model similar to this one (http://www.pwcrumpco.com/oct_mando.html). It was the first Crump instrument I have seen firsthand. Unusually, he had it tuned like a guitar (DGBE) and capo'd, and was playing it in a country-blues style (!). Sounded really good, too.

[dinobili]

Initial set up with old strings and it's buzzing. Getting new strings and checking with music store about possible bridge adjustment.
What causes buzzing? Suggestions?

[Rob Meyer]

Sort of depends on where it is is buzzing. Any specific frets? If so, might need a fret leveling. Or is it the just the zingy/buzzy sound that is not unusual in these types of instruments. My Crump bouzouki has relatively little of that, but it can depend on the setup. That leads me to suggest getting a setup done on the instrument. Sounds like the it has been sitting around unused and it might simply need a truss rod adjustment. A good repair person should be able to discern the cause of any unwanted buzzing and work out a remedy.

[Rob Meyer]

Eddie's comments about strings gauges reminded me of a situation similar to yours that I experienced. A while back I purchased a second hand instrument that buzzed a good bit on arrival (after tuning up, bridge placement and such, of course). I discovered that most of the strings were of too lite a gauge. Changed them to a more appropriate gauge and all was well. Are the strings on your OM the same as what Phil Crump recommends? A string change is all that might be needed. Still, I think a setup would be a good idea (assuming you are not planning on returning the instrument).

BTW, the strings I use on on all of my instruments are custom sets built from single strings that I order from Juststrings.com. The commercial sets don't have the proper gauges for my instruments and their respective tunings.