Buying the Big One (Capital B, Capital O)

[Amanda Gregg]

I could just kiss you guys

[Amanda Gregg]

verbs4us, thanks for posting those great articles. Definitely super relevant to the thread.

[JeffD]

Why is there an undercurrent in this thread from a few that Amanda isn't necessarily accomplished, talented, or "practiced up" enough??

There is a video, I can't find it right now, my connection is too slow, of Amanda on stage with Gordon Neidinger and The American Gypsies, doing a heart breakingly wonderful job on Monti's Csardas, which you normally hear on violin, not on three mandolins.


Look, I think everyone knows that it is much easier to get a great mandolin than it is to play great on any mandolin. That said, there are advantages to a better mandolin at all levels of play, and folks should just get the best they can afford and appreciate.

I recently purchased the best mandolin I have ever played personally, but it doesn't replace what I had. While the honeymoon with the new one is not over, it will be at some point and I will go back to loving on and visiting with my other instruments (I am a catch and never release type), which I have played so long that I know them with great familiarity.

[Jim Garber]

There is a video, I can't find it right now, my connection is too slow, of Amanda on stage with Gordon Neidinger and The American Gypsies, doing a heart breakingly wonderful job on Monti's Csardas, which you normally hear on violin, not on three mandolins.

There is this one:

[NoNickel]

Why is there an undercurrent in this thread from a few that Amanda isn't necessarily accomplished, talented, or "practiced up" enough?

I certainly have not implied nor meant to imply that there is anything wrong with Amanda's or anyone else's playing. How could I know such a thing? I think if you read my posts, you will find any deprecating comments regarding developing better technique etc as referring to myself and maybe others in general, but certainly not Amanda specifically. She was asking for advice on buying the "Big One." As I said in my original post, I had just recently had very similar thoughts and her post struck a nerve in me. So I shared MY thoughts and MY conclusion regarding MY desire to buy a better mandolin (which is still there by the way). What I have said is not advice to Amanda but sharing my own thoughts on the subject which seemed relevant to what she was asking.

To be clear, my point is that seeking "the Big One" or even the next one should done with self-awareness as to the reason behind the purchase/trade. There is nothing wrong with buying the item just because it is beautiful. There is nothing wrong with buying something as an investment and locking it away for safekeeping. There is nothing wrong with buying something just because you want it.

Sometimes, however, and it has certainly happened with me, a purchase and/or trade is motivated by something that is perceived to be lacking in the instrument when it is really in the player. (REMEMBER I SAID SOMETIMES AND I SAID THAT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT AMANDA's PLAYING IS LIKE). It is frustrating to buy a new instrument and after a short period determine that nothing really is that much different, other than you have a more expensive instrument now and less money. This is based upon MY experience and observation and your mileage may vary. I am only saying that examining all of the reasons for getting the big one or the next one is a good thing to do.

[DataNick]

NoNickel,

Why do you think my comments were aimed at you?
The word "few" is not you, nor "NoNickel"...

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Is that Charlie Rappaport on mandolin?

[NoNickel]

NoNickel,

Why do you think my comments were aimed at you?
The word "few" is not you, nor "NoNickel"...

That's a good point D-Nick. I thought that as I appeared the biggest crepe hanger on this post, that it probably was me, and if it was, then I want to make sure that my comments were not taken to imply something that was not meant.

[sgarrity]

Play everything you can get your hands on and save your pennies so when you find the one you can't live without, you can pounce on it! I look at mandolins the same way I look at wine....in the right circumstance even the bad ones can be pretty alright!

The education is a journey and to me, a big part of the fun. If you get into wine by drinking $6/bottle Yellow Tail, you'll probably think that's pretty good wine. Then as you start to explore what's available and what your palate likes, you may find that Yellow Tail ain't fit to drink. Or you may think it's just fine, in which case you just saved yourself a LOT of $$$. As you get into the more expensive wines/mandolins you will find some pricey ones that knock your socks off. You'll also find some pricey ones that you may not enjoy any more than that Yellow Tail. Or you'll have my problem......once you've had the good stuff it's hard to go backwards. The upper tier mandolins have a feel, responsiveness, and depth of tone that most of the cheaper ones just don't have. As a hobby picker of average ability I need all the help I can get from my mandolin!

Should you order one from a builder? Yes and no. I will only order from a builder whose work I am intimately familiar with. I would say that you should play a minimum of 3-5 examples of someone's work before ordering one. The builders that we have today are exceptionally talented, passionate people. But they are human and the materials they use are quite variable. If you order a mandolin based off of hype you read here or maybe playing one instrument, you run the risk of being disappointed. Also, some builders change their tone over time due to increased knowledge, personal preference, and maybe even forces from the market.

I love a good F5. But don't overlook the A-styles and two points. Have you heard Joe Walsh on his Gil A5? He sure makes that thing sing! My personal favorite mandolin is my Heiden A5. A buddy has Nugget A5 that will make you forget scrolls ever existed. An A5 is a great way to get into the upper tiers of tone without having to spend $20k.

Did I mention play everything you can get your hands on? Also, have them played for you so you can hear what it sounds like out front. You're going to Monroe Camp, right? Make some time to go to Carter Vintage, Gruhns, and Cotten Music while your'e there, with major emphasis on Carters! With the kind of inventory they carry it'll be like getting a Masters degree in mandolin tone in one sitting! In the end it is about finding the right instrument that fits your hands and responds well to your style of playing. Enjoy the journey!

[NoNickel]

Great advice Shaun. The problem with going to Carter's during the Monroe Camp is that there won't be any where to sit as all the campers will be there. And watch me make a fool out of myself (vis a vis these posts) and buy something that weekend.

[jmagill]

At the risk of stating the obvious, I'll also mention that there is more than just one great mandolin tone.

Borrowing Shaun's wine analogy (but substituting single malts, since I'm more familiar with them), the Laphraoig 10 year is heavy on peat smoke and seaweed flavors, while the Dalwhinnie 15 year is a lighter, honey-flavored malt. Both are acknowledged exceptional whiskies and one could never be mistaken for the other, but the one you like best is a matter of taste. Personally, I prefer the Laphraoig, but others may find its heavy flavors are not for them.

In mandolins, you'll find similar distinctions; different top-tier builders have different signature sounds, and the one you want will be the one whose sound matches most closely your own 'ideal' sound.

Keep in mind also that this is not just shopping for an upgrade; it's the Quest for Excalibur, and as you grow as a player, what Excalibur looks, feels and sounds like may change...

[Amanda Gregg]

Is that Charlie Rappaport on mandolin?

Indeed!

[mandroid]

[MixA5 no.56] Wore out enough fretwire spots to need a Refret. seemed to need a fingerboard leveling ..

Bought it used and there was a bit of a hump.. but once it came back
It was making some of my other mandolin's fingerboard surfaces seem jealous ..

[DataNick]

...As a hobby picker of average ability I need all the help I can get from my mandolin!

Stop lyin Shaun! Average ability indeed!

FWIW, Shaun is an exceptional Monroe Style Mandolin picker!

Come on now Baby! I gots to give you props Brotha!

[Mandobar]

Unfortunately wine is not forever, because once you uncork the bottle, what remains in the end is a useless cork and an empty bottle. Same goes for single malts, etc. One could effectively own and play the same mandolin for their lifetime.

That said, I can tell you that after almost 20 years of playing and buying and selling mandolins and guitars, it goes in cycles, and it depends on how active a player you are in terms of rehearsing, taking lesson, going to jams, etc. Certain instruments fit into certain settings. So, the Big One, who can say they are wedded to just one mandolin, and forever?

[sgarrity]

......So, the Big One, who can say they are wedded to just one mandolin, and forever?

Certainly not us!!!

[Mandobar]

nope, not us, shaun. not us for certain.

[Jim Garber]

So, the Big One, who can say they are wedded to just one mandolin, and forever?

Certainly not us!!!

That is why I say, "The Big Two" or the "Big Ten".

[sgrexa]

A buddy has Nugget A5 that will make you forget scrolls ever existed. An A5 is a great way to get into the upper tiers of tone without having to spend $20k.!

Amen to that! CT is not that far and you are welcome to come down and play my Nugget A5 anytime. It is magical and inspiring and honestly, money aside, I would not trade it for anything. I sit and play it for hours every day and am amazed at the sound that comes out of that little box. Of course I am a bit biased and there are many, many excellent luthiers building mandolins these days but there is certainly something to be said for experience. It is easy to look at one of their creations and say "Gee, that looks a lot like that $1,500 "insert mando brand here". Believe me, after four decades or more building and repairing hundreds of mandolins, there is something special inside a lot of these instruments that is not easily quantified. It has to be experienced first hand. Your Stiver was built by a man with decades of experience and I have only played one or two examples. I remember Danny Stewart's Stiver A5 I played at Wind Gap years ago was a spectacular bluegrass mandolin. It could take some time to find a better mandolin than the one you already have. You might really want to think about what is lacking and fine tune the specifics of what you really want and need, and what you really don't.

Sean

[George R. Lane]

Amanda,
Your playing kicks A##. I bet you could make a Rover sound great.

[Jim Garber]

A buddy has Nugget A5 that will make you forget scrolls ever existed. An A5 is a great way to get into the upper tiers of tone without having to spend $20k.

They must have heard you ... here's a Nugget A5 right now, a beauty, in the classifieds!

[Mark Wilson]

Recently, I saw Alan Bibey pick up a student's mandolin instead of his Loar, and what do you know? It sounded exactly like Alan Bibey LOL

I can imagine that. But I can imagine Alan thought it seemed far different.

It's like many things in life. Your friends. Your car. Your House. Your boots. Sometimes its just about how it all makes you feel about yourself. Doesn't have to be 'better' to someone else or 'worth it' to someone else if it makes you feel better having it or being around it. If you can afford it and you like it, life is pretty short. I'm just grateful I'm not privileged to see, touch, or play better instruments. Cause having the best one I can afford seems to make me pretty dang happy.

[Capt. E]

I bought a Weber "Bighorn" about 5 years ago and I really don't think I could ever find anything better (for me). However, I continue to drool over various instruments, especially the occasional Ellis I get to "try out" at Fiddlers Green. I might have purchased one by now if not for the "do I really need it?" that bounces around in my brain. My wife's response to the purchase also has a significant influence. Someday...

[fatt-dad]

I'm faithful in marraige. In mandolins, I'm looking for a harem.

Very happy with my Cohen, my A3 and my pancake.

f-d

[Iron]

This is the best thread I have read, I guess I will always be searching for the Big One, it just inspires me to get better.I just bought a Weber Bighorn, amazing how good a $5k mandolin can sound.