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Thread: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

  1. #1

    Default 1st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I'm starting my sunbursting experiments. The F is a Savannah and the A is a Johnson. I know the Savannah is solid wood. Are the weird spots on the Johnson veneer that is missing from my overly enthusiastic sanding? I have sprayed nitro sunbursts on guitars as per reranch's instructions here: http://www.reranch.com/sunburstaerosol.html with great results. I am thinking I will hand run the F and spray the A unless someone can tell me how to get rid of the weird spots on the A.
    TIA
    Newbie Kenny
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    Please no rubbing my Johnson jokes. LOL Too obvious.
    Last edited by Kennyz55; Jun-04-2014 at 4:33pm.

  2. #2

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    The A has sealer down in the grain still, so it's not taking up the stain. If you can't get it to go away with a modest amount of sanding, then a toned sunburst might be the only way to go. On those hand-rubbed sunbursts, keep going with it until you get it looking really right. If you screw anything up and need to "reset" a little bit, you can lightly sand the wood with 400 grit or so and it's almost like getting a completely fresh start.

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  4. #3
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    The A has sealer down in the grain still, so it's not taking up the stain. If you can't get it to go away with a modest amount of sanding...
    If it's a laminated top, it might be sanded all the way to glue-saturated wood near the glue joint in the lamination. If so, no amount of sanding will improve it, and will likely make it worse. You might be better off spraying the burst regardless of what is causing the "spots".

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  6. #4

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Progress on the F.
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  7. #5
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I've used nothing but hand rubbing when I build..I take "hand made" to heart and only spray sealer...think that those little imprefections only add to the piece.....
    kterry

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  9. #6
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I think you may want to try airbrushing. Hand rubbing gets great results and you can't learn if you don't practice, but airbrushing is so easy and gets you nearly the same results.

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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    And don't fool yourself. Spray applications where being used in the late 19th century, guess what?, Loars were sprayed. At least after an initial hand rubbed coloring.

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  12. #8

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Tried my share of hand rubbed, had a couple not bad, it's sure worth trying for the experience. That dang re-curve is the problem; especially in the spruce. I'll always spray on caved instruments from now on, but flat-tops: this one came out pretty nice. I let my son give it a try for a while after getting him started. He threw up his hands in defeat after near an hour "it looks like a kindergartener did it !!" Relax, we can save it, a little patient cleanup with clean rag alcohol and gentle re-application of colors; Viola ! we left the sides, as he liked them.


  13. #9
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    It seems to always look better after the lacquer goes on anyway.

  14. #10

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Now spraying lacquer. Does anyone spray varnish?What's your process?
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  15. #11
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Oh man bro...

    I'm all for experimenting and practicing, but you can/could have done much better than those. I guess my initial thought and question is why did you desire to do a hand rubbed sunburst if you weren't really going to at least do your best? I think you're going to be gravely disappointed down the road.

  16. #12

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Thanks for your unvarnished opinion. (Sarcasm intended). How would you improve the finish and what am I going to be "gravely disappointed" in? I was trying to thin the finish on some inexpensive mandolins to try to marginally improve their tone and learn a little something in the process before starting an F5 kit. How can I fix without a complete sand? I tried buffing with the dog.
    Ps my original question about spraying varnish remains unanswered. TIA.

  17. #13
    Troglodyte Michael Weaver's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    If you screw anything up and need to "reset" a little bit, you can lightly sand the wood with 400 grit or so and it's almost like getting a completely fresh start.
    I think this may have been the point fscotte was trying to get at.
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  18. #14
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz55 View Post
    Thanks for your unvarnished opinion. (Sarcasm intended). How would you improve the finish and what am I going to be "gravely disappointed" in? I was trying to thin the finish on some inexpensive mandolins to try to marginally improve their tone and learn a little something in the process before starting an F5 kit. How can I fix without a complete sand? I tried buffing with the dog.
    Ps my original question about spraying varnish remains unanswered. TIA.
    Your F model ain't nearly as noticeable, but the A model looks as if you just took some black paint and painted a ring around the edge. I'm of the opinion that if you're going to do something, you should at least strive to do it right, or at least your best. You took the time to strip two mandolins, and you own a sprayer, so I know your competent enough to do better. You wanted to do a sunburst.

    If you haven't gone too far and you don't want to restrip, you can spray some stain to try and fade the transition in a bit. You'd be surprised how easy it is... But I would do the "reset" on the A model at least, strip away what lacquer you have on (it'll come off quite easily), and just attempt to do better. Reach for a higher plateau cause I know you're capable.


    I'm not sure of John Hamlett's secret, but I think he's using an alcohol soaked rag to fade the colors in after each application of color. That helps the stain gel together for smooth transitions.


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  20. #15

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I'm toying with the idea of doing the A model in a Gibson red sunburst like on an SG.
    Thanks for the help. I think the criticism and the Rabgers losing 3-0 in the playoffs made me a little sensitive. I already transitioned the black on the A. I am going to start an IV A model and a Siminoff F model soon.

  21. #16
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    And for the record, I tried the hand rubbed bursts myself, and I have no prior experience at all with spraying or hand rubbed finishing at all. I tried on a couple scraps. It can be done. You'll notice the left piece has that hard transition which will stand out like crazy once the lacquer is on. Because of that, I decided to go to spraying. It is an art and it takes genuine practice.

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  22. #17

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    How can I lighten the dark area on the F in the middle of the amber.
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  23. #18
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Is that stain I presume? If so, you'll have to remove it to lighten it. Perhaps get some tips from the experienced rubbers here. Maybe contact John Hamlett. And BTW that doesn't look too bad overall for a first time burst. I like the color.

  24. #19

    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I sanded the dark spot and bleached it. It was white as a sheet of paper. It turned dark as soon as I applied the amber. Any suggestions?? Sunburst??

  25. #20
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz55 View Post
    Any suggestions?? Sunburst??
    As many stain/finish problems as I've had over the years, I've never been in this situation. I don't know what to do. Are you spraying yet? I think you'll have to resort to that. Rubbing a sunburst is much easier with a fresh start, ie on a new instrument.

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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I don't think you will be able to lighten that middle area at all. Have you considered a blacktop?
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Kennyz55, that is an example of a very poorly split out top. The fibers of the wood are running in such a way that you will never pull that one out of the fire. I wouldn't use anymore wood from that stash.

  28. #23
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    I agree with many about the critical thing,
    Practice.
    For first attempts, not awful at all! You'll get the hang of it, just stick to it.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  29. #24
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    A tangential gripe..Trying to get a couple of mandos finished,I discovered to my horror that the price of Deft glossy spray had trebled. and none of the regular outlets I depended on are carrying it. No doubt it has been classified as a bomb -like danger to society and surcharged accordingly. Somehow the additional cost negates its explosive propensities. I paid it...you're welcome.
    Jim

  30. #25
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: !st Hand Rubbed Sunbursts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz55 View Post
    How can I lighten the dark area on the F in the middle of the amber.
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    You have significant grain runout there, and the strip of sapwood near center is prone too sucking the stain more then rest so it immediately becomes darker then rest. There are few possibilities to reduce this. FIrst is use od stain tha doesn't soak that deep and use it "dry", meaning the application should not leave wet spots, the rag must be barely wet. This requires TONS of expertise asnd stain hat drie quick enough. You can use airbrush with very reduced flow to apply color so it stays on top. If that doesn't work another option would be clear sealer (thin layer of shellac) before application of color (but the sealer may also turn the areas slightly darker but can be compensated by applying more color to the lighter spots). Or you can seal the wood completely and use toned finish (must be sprayed obviously) or the very last resort is black top or other solid color scheme.
    Adrian

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