Building ITM repertoire

[Jim Garber]

Thanks to Connor and grandomando (and others) for your excellent suggestions. I have a good pile of source material including O'Neill's (bought way back in the 1970s and much dog-eared) plus recent acquisitions mentioned on my OP. I find myself using the Kingston (Ontario) session boom as my main source and take it from there. There is enough indication in the transcriptions to glean the ornamentation.

It is funny that i am primarily an ear-player but I am learning the tunes from that book to start. I figure I will then listen to some of the master recordings -- I do have a bunch of those even from the 1960s and 70s to draw from and even the classic reissues on 78 rpms as well. I generally have an Irish tune always bouncing around in my empty head (makes for good reverb). I definitely agree on the immersion experience. Luckily there are a few good sessions not too far from me.

Randi, who posts here often, invited me to her weekly session in Connecticut. That one is quite interesting since it starts really slow on the early end for the rank beginners and then as the evening progresses more and more experienced players show up and it turns into a full-fledged session, but welcoming to all.

Brian Conway runs a nice session in a local bar and often brings other excellent local folks up from New York City and elsewhere to join him. I am also going to my first fiddle lesson with Brian this coming weekend, so that will get me into the "code" or ITM, I would think.

[Annette Siegel]

And just to throw another idea at you.....Brian Conway & Marla Fibish are both instructors at the upcoming http://portalmusicweek.com/ I went last year and had a great time, it a smaller group and very relaxed. A private lesson is also included in the week for you.

[Jim Garber]

Timing is everything. I was out in AZ for my niece's wedding but we didn't get too far from Phoenix and I don't think I can go back there. OTOH Brian and host of other ITM greats taught at the Catskill Irish Week closer to me up here in NY. I guess I will jusr have to settle for a lesson with Brian for right now.

[Annette Siegel]

Timing is everything. I was out in AZ for my niece's wedding but we didn't get too far from Phoenix and I don't think I can go back there. OTOH Brian and host of other ITM greats taught at the Catskill Irish Week closer to me up here in NY. I guess I will jusr have to settle for a lesson with Brian for right now.

Oh you poor thing...I guess you'll just have to settle for that.

[Jim Garber]

Yes, I am looking fwd with some trepidation to my lesson. After 40 years of playing, no doubt there are many things I am doing wrong, tho for some reason the music does come out relatively all right.

[Connor]

You know, I have mixed feelings about the whole "doing it right/doing it wrong" thing. On the one hand, technique errors can get you in a bind that keeps you from playing well. On the other hand, if it works, and if you get to make music, enjoy it, and share it with others... what the heck! I have a friend that is of the opinion that if he can't do it extremely well, there's no point in trying at all. Thus, he has almost no hobbies. Somewhere along the line I acquired the philosophy: anything worth doing is worth doing poorly. Thus, I'm willing to wade in almost anywhere that I can do some musical damage.

I also really like the Duke Ellington quote (quoted regularly by Peter Schikele): If it sounds good, it IS good. And, Jim, your final statement is the real justification - "for some reason the music does come out relatively all right." I like it.

Cheers!

[Jim Garber]

Connor: I can see your viewpoint for sure. I am certainly no perfectionist when it comes to playing various styles but I do consider and enjoy the challenge of getting close. I have enough facility on the fiddle and mandolin and a fairly well-trained ear to hear the difference. I know what it sounds like for a strictly old time player with no concern top stylistic differences to play ITM or a classical player to do the same to, say, bluegrass or blues. I do prefer the more authentic at least when it comes to listening and as for my playing I like the nuances. I do agree with the Duke but what sounds good to me is the more authentic or as close as I can get.

[whistler]

I have mixed feelings about the whole "doing it right/doing it wrong" thing.

I agree. But, like Jim, I like stylistic nuances and try to capture them as best I can. I like Irish music because of the way it sounds, and I like Old Time because of the way it sounds, so if I am trying to play either of them, the closer I get to the 'sound', the more I enjoy it. The danger, I think, is placing so much weight on imitating a particular style, player - even a single performance - that the music is no longer a vehicle for your own expression. Part of what makes these musical traditions so rich is the variety of personal approaches to the tunes.

Duke Ellington had it right, of course. But 'good' is subjective.

[Bertram Henze]

I like Irish music because of the way it sounds, and I like Old Time because of the way it sounds, so if I am trying to play either of them, the closer I get to the 'sound', the more I enjoy it. The danger, I think, is placing so much weight on imitating a particular style, player - even a single performance - that the music is no longer a vehicle for your own expression.

These are the criteria indeed. Play it like it is Irish for you, because that is reachable. Don't try to make it sound Irish for everybody else, for you can't please everybody with a mandolin - there will always be the odd person who needs a set of uileann pipes or a spit stick (flute) to feel Irish

[Connor]

Another thing - there are folks that believe that there are correct and incorrect instruments for playing a particular genera of music. We wouldn't have the bouzouki/cittern in Irish music if groups in the '60s hadn't infused the Greek folk instrument into Irish music. Also consider the bodhrán, which evolved to what we hear today very recently. If I hear someone playing an older bodhrán using the older, simpler style I sometimes find myself cringing and thinking to myself: "amateur" before I reel in my orthodox thinking.

I guess part of my realization as I moved from playing primarily classical, orchestral music to dabbling in all sorts of folk/traditional music, was that all of the styles we know of now as "authentic" are all an evolution of music due to the creativity and inventiveness of all of the great (and not so great) musicians through the ages. There is definitely joy to be found in nailing an Alisdair Fraiser lick or tune. But, there is also joy to be found in taking an old familiar reel and doing something completely new with it - especially when you and your musical friends create it together. There's room for both. Neither extreme is "right".

It's pretty humbling to realize that some of what people call "traditional" Irish music evolved substantially within my lifetime. Makes me feel OLD.

[Connor]

ps... I always loved Peter Schikele's twitting of the authentic instrument folks in the classical world. On his radio show he would illustrate tunes with his "authentic" instrument, a cheezy Casio keyboard.

[Connor]

pps... After I posted my ps I decided to peek and see if there was any new info about Schikele Mix. On the website I found another phrase that I love (but had forgotten). It offers the flip side of my previous argument: "it don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that certain je ne sais quoi". There IS something "right" that has to be captured in the playing, too.

Keep on playing, folks!

[Bertram Henze]

"it don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that certain je ne sais quoi"

Wonder why people always speak French when they don't know what to say. Reminds me of the Irish habit of speaking Irish for saying dirty things.
It's all a kind of whack-fol-alderah...

[pkev]

Hi

Some tunes from the O'Neills collection I'm re-discovering, might be worth checking out to add to your repertoire

Sergt Early's Jig
Tell her I am
Humors of Tralibane
Julia McMahon
Humors of Ballingarry
Road to Lurgan
Charley the Prayermaster
Fasten the leg in her
The Kneebuckle
The Flitch of Bacon
The Kilfinane Jig
Kitty of Oulart
Humors of Castle Comer

Reels

The Bantry lassies
Ladies Pantalettes
Flower of the Flock
Mountain Lark
Peggy on the settle
Downings Reel
The Ivy Leaf
Skibereen Lassies
My Honey in the House
The Callan Lassies
Maid in the Cherry tree
The Hag by the Fire

Hornpipes

Bantry Bay
Kit O'Mahony's
Glengariff Hornpipe
Thirty Years ago
Ballancollig in the Morning
Tomgraney Castle

Set Dances

The Job of Journey work
Hurry the Jug
The Spalpeen Fanach

Hope you find the list useful

Pkev

[Jim Garber]

Hey pkev: Thanks for your list. I sometimes read thru parts of O'Neill's and other tune books to see ones I might like. I will check out those.