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Thread: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

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    Default Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Hi! Does anyone have any suggestions on what strings to put on this for a young musician to get started on mandolin. We also have an ukulele I am going to use Aquila 5ths to tune it to a mandolin b/c my so likes to take it everywhere with him and I think it will help him move forward with mandoline. He plays songs from his violin and piano music by ear on it.

    My husband and I have moved about 17 times and the mandolin has always been with us, though we never removed it from its case. My 10 year old son wants to play it b/c the strings are the same as on the violin.

    I can tell it was played a lot but I have thoroughly cleaned everything. The tuners are turning smoothly, but sadly one of the gears is missing and I want to keep the tuners original (dealing with that). I want to put the best strings I can on it that won't be too hard for my son b/c he is very sensitive to tone and distortion in instruments. He does have some callouses built up from uke and violin.

    At first I had no idea the value of this until I started looking into it and we would not otherwise be able to afford to buy him a mandolin. But I trust my son to take good care of it b/c he takes really good care of his violin and our antique piano. He sometimes plays for hours a day.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Well, don't string it up until the gear is replaced. You won't be able to tune the string that has the missing gear.

    It's easier for beginners to use the lightest strings they can get. Start with D'Addario J73s perhaps. You can get heavier strings later on.

    I like the tone of flatwound strings with resonator mandolins, but those are expensive.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    What brand flatwound strings do you prefer? I realize I can't tune the string with the missing gear, but I may go ahead and string it just to get him started. I hope it's not too much of a long shot finding the gear. When it had 4 strings on it, it was quite loud. I play guitar and uke a little and I'm not quite used to the sound of the mandoline. My son gets a lot of sound out of his violin too!

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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    I like the tone of flatwound strings with resonator mandolins, but those are expensive.
    Any in particular? I play the John Pearse 2150Ms on my resonator, as National recommends, and I've read many satisfied customers of the Jazzmando JM-11s, which now are discontinued. What alternative do you endorse? Thomastiks? FW74s?
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Thank you pheffernan. Everyone please keep in mind our National is approximately pre-war. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. It is loud which is ok as long as the strings enhance the tone. The first 5 fret bars show quite a bit of play was done on this and I wish we knew who played it but my husband's mom passed away when he was only 10. So we don't know anything about it. The frets were pressed down in places by the strings. They will probably be need to be replaced eventually.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    If I were stringing up a mandolin with flatwounds, I'd probably make my own set from D'Addario Chromes. I had an old Dobro mandolin for a while and the previous owner had put, I think, Thomastiks on it. Sounded great. FW74s would be less costly than the Thomastiks.

    All old National mandolins are prone to neck problems. Using lighter strings = less tension and may help keep the neck from going out of whack. If you're planning to have the tuners fixed soon, any strings you put on it now will have to come off when it is repaired, at least on the side with the missing gear. I'd regard those strings as wasted. If the repair is further off in the future, go ahead and string it now. Just don't put a string on the tuner with the missing gear.

    I don't know how practical it is to replace just a gear. It may depend on what tuners you've got and whether somebody's got a drawer of old parts for them. It could end up being easier to replace the whole strip on that side of the instrument. I'd rather have a playable old mandolin with a couple of replacement parts than one that's all original but can't be played.

    489 is a low serial number and may indicate a pre-1930 manufacture; it depends on which model of mandolin you've got.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Martin thank you for your reply. I really am hoping to keep it original. I cleaned the old tuners - there is no rust or anything and they turn like butter. The "bone" pegs look beautiful, but I want it to be playable so really hoping to find the gear and nickel end the string winds on. This is a prr-WWII all steel mandolin with resonator. I almost donated it once. So glad I didn't since my son wants to play it and picks up new instruments fast. Does that gift skip a generation??? I can play by ear but have trouble with picking techniques, which is why I want a 12 string mando with high and low octave strings - so cool!

    The neck looks good right now. Thanks for the advice on keeping strings light as I don't want to ruin anything. How my son knew the string run the same as violin - I have no idea. He knows so much about music I never showed him. It did have 4 strings on it and my son immediately knew it needed 8. And he's only 9. He has a keen interest in music.

    This mando was played a lot. I polished out the pick scratches. I cleaned the frets and the first 5 have indentations from the strings. There are some insignificant little dents on the back and one on the side. It has a mirror finish. So beautiful! Can't wait for one of us to take off on it, probably my son. My 3 children and I are all playing something right now, uke, guitar, violin, piano. My husband plays congas. I will check out the D'Addario Chromes. Why do I need to put together my own set? They have a 73 set - is that too heavy? New to mandos. They are more complicated to me than ukes, guitars and violins. BUT I will probably get strings to tune my uke to mando to learn mandolin. I like it!

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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Some pics

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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    OK, looks like a nice shiny Style 1. Where are you located? You need a repair tech who works on a lot of vintage mandolins and is likely to have a spare tuner post and gear sitting around. Tell us your location and perhaps someone can recommend a luthier.

    Another reason to use light strings is that these have a scale length of about 15 inches. You have to put extra tension on standard-gauge strings to bring them to pitch at that length, since they're designed for a scale length closer to 14 inches.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Ah, Martin beat me to it. I had one of those for many years (sold it last year) and when I first strung it up did not like the tone until I realized that National designed them for the maximum volume and so made them with that extra long scale. This may or may not present a problem fro your 10-year-old. One other alternative is to string it singly and see how it works for him then. I had mine strung to a lower pitch to play blues on it with the lowest strings at E.

    I now have a modern National which has a more standard mandolin scale (13-7/8"). Tone is actually more pleasing to my ear (less tinny) but I do miss my old style 2 -- prob more as a collector than as a player.

    I don't actually recall what tuners it had on it but I am not 100% sure that Page's tuners are original. Anyone know for sure? Martin? Those look newer to me.

    Take a look at this one from Jake Wildwood's site (1928 Style 1).
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    You have a quite valuable instrument there, but also one that may be difficult for a 10-year-old to learn on. The old National mandolins had a longer-than-standard scale, as discussed above. They're also very heavy.

    The mandolin evidently has some family value to you, so I'm not suggesting that you trade it on a more "kid-friendly" instrument, but i am suggesting that a decent, inexpensive Asian-made A-model instrument might be easier for your son. Especially since he's a violinist, apparently, and the violin scale is even shorter (less than 13 inches for a full-size instrument) than the standard mandolin scale. So transferring violin fingerings to the long-scale National will be a challenge.

    By all means get the National restored; seems in good shape other than the missing tuner shaft. It's a prize! But, for my 2¢ worth of advice, think about getting an instrument for your 10-year-old that's closer to his violin in terms of scale length.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Martin: I am in South Orange County, California so anything in the vicinity of Laguna Niguel, Aliso or Mission Viejo, Beach Cities... My husband also works in Riverside so that works.

    Jim: Yes those are the same tuners but mine are cleaner. I have disassembled them, cleaned, polished, lubed and re-assembled. Normally an antique, I wouldn't wipe of patina, but thought it was appropriate in this case. Hope to find a gear for these. The neck is about 16", but does not have the center inlay like the one you reference. Does anyone know what brand tuners those are?

    Jim & Allen: I agree this mando is heavy and LOUD. We can't really afford another mandolin, BUT I am going to string a pineapple ukulele with 5ths string like a mandoline for my son to practice on. He's pretty strong and can pick the mando up but the strings may be a little challenging for him right now. He already has a 6-pack and is ripped from paddling a lot to surf (: We don't push him in so he gets quite a workout several times a week!

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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Who's doing vintage repairs in the OC these days? Anyone know? There may be some repair action down at Buffalo Bros. in San Diego, although the retail shop has closed. If you feel like trekking up north, McCabe's in Santa Monica might help.

    Page's tuners do resemble Jake's (four bumps on the end, five screw holes) although the engraving on hers is fancier. I am not the true expert on tuners that Dan Beimborn is, but I see no reason to think that hers are not original.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Thanks, I'll be working on this. BTW the number on the Antebellum site is 212. Ours is 489. Our tuners looked like those before I cleaned them up - you couldn't event tell they were part brass. I have the same case, but the interior is red, handle is gone. Thank you for everyone's input on the strings. That will help set us up for success. I will let you know the outcome.

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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    The longer scale adds more tension to the instrument. I'd advise lights or do what I do, string the bottom two courses (G and D) in octaves to reduce the tension on the neck, Also from the looks of the shape this instrument is in I would be hesitant to recommend it for use by a ten year old. Find some thing very cheap to get him started, even the 80 dollar elcheapos with a decent setup would suffice. Obviously I am not trying to be pretentious and do not know your family, but a nice vintage instrument is more likely to be damaged by inexperience. He will thank you later on when he is ready for it.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Quote Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
    The longer scale adds more tension to the instrument. I'd advise lights or do what I do, string the bottom two courses (G and D) in octaves to reduce the tension on the neck... I would be hesitant to recommend it for use by a ten year old.

    Thanks for your input. So do you mean have the G and D strings in low and high octaves like a 12 string mandolin?

    I'm still thinking this over for our son. He does take unusually good care of his instruments. He is very tempermental about anyone touching his violin. Having a case for his violin and the mandolin helps. We'll see how it goes.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    If he knows how to take care of his violin, he'll know how to take care of this. I have a friend in our mandolin orchestra, who shall remain nameless, who is a fully grown adult but seems to be a little accident prone with her instrument. In fact she dropped it backstage just before a concert last December and cracked it; she had to sit out the gig because we didn't have a spare. So age is not necessarily a deciding factor here. Get a sturdy strap for it, but advise him to play seated even while wearing the strap.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    ...Get a sturdy strap for it, but advise him to play seated even while wearing the strap.
    When the 10-year-old hefts that National, he'll elect to play seated 24-7. How many of you who don't own pre-war Nationals have ever even picked one up? My Triolian (1938 or so) is steel-bodied, and is probably lighter than the brass-bodied one Page owns. Even so it weighs a ton.

    Were I setting it up, I'd string it with single strings in each course; I'd put on flat-wounds, tune them a full step low, and put a capo at the second fret so the kid would be playing above the capo, close to a standard mandolin scale, and single rather than double strings.

    Playing one of those old Nationals is like driving a bread truck rather than a "crossover" SUV. Don't get me wrong: great instruments, volume that'll peel paint off the wall, growly bluesy sound, loads of "mojo." But not the easiest mandolin on which to learn, especially for a pre-teen.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    FYI - those reso's are not standard mandolin scale. They are 15" vs. 13.whatever on the mandolin. As a consequence, standard mando strings can put too much pressure on the neck. This can cause bowing to the neck [excess relief] on those without truss-rods or neck reinforcement making the instrument difficult to play.

    I use GHS Ultra Light's on mine and they work like a charm.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    I think I hear an echo in here.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Two echoes, and they're having an argument. It's true that these instruments are unwieldy. But let's not forget that Cameroonian jazz bassist Richard Bona learned to play on a homemade guitar built from a motorcycle gas tank with bicycle brake cables for strings. If Junior can learn to play this mandolin, he can play any mandolin. Cheapie beginner mandolins may not be heavy, but they have other problems.

    P.S. I have owned two RM1s and five vintage National mandolins, three of which are still with me. Interestingly, one of them (a rare wood-bodied Triolian) has a standard scale length; I think it's the model on which the RM1 is based.
    Last edited by mrmando; Jul-10-2014 at 1:27am.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Two echoes, and they're having an argument. It's true that these instruments are unwieldy. But let's not forget that Cameroonian jazz bassist Richard Bona learned to play on a homemade guitar built from a motorcycle gas tank with bicycle brake cables for strings. If Junior can learn to play this mandolin, he can play any mandolin. Cheapie beginner mandolins may not be heavy, but they have other problems.

    P.S. I have owned two RM1s and five vintage National mandolins, three of which are still with me. Interestingly, one of them (a rare wood-bodied Triolian) has a standard scale length; I think it's the model on which the RM1 is based.
    Sorry for being redundant, it was late and I wasn't looking - oops.

    As for the RM1's, a few years back I visited Nationals booth at NAMM. There was a fellow there doing some demos, an older musician who I didn't know but may even be a member here. Anyway, he told me that when National was designing the RM1 they came to him for his opinions. He said he insisted they make them to standard mandolin scale instead of their traditional longer scale. Not sure if it was based on anything, but it sounded like it was a major point of discussion and he was quite pleased to have prevailed.

    While I didn't pursue it further, my feeling is that I prefer the longer scale and wider fretboard on the originals and the standard mando neck is one of the things I don't like about the RM1. But that's just my opinion. I find the 15" scale more comfortable for some things and, I guess, is about 1/2 way between a mandolin and a mandola - which is pretty cool IMHO.
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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    If he knows how to take care of his violin, he'll know how to take care of this... So age is not necessarily a deciding factor here. Get a sturdy strap for it, but advise him to play seated even while wearing the strap.
    Very GOOD! That's my plan. I at least want to give him the chance b/c practices so much.

    Verne, thanks for the info especially the strings. I will go for the GHS. Good reviews for those.

    By the way, here is my little grom playing piano:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fACIIgR1zkY at the school talent show.

    I cringe whenever he plays away from home b/c nothing sounds quite like an antique piano:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2DXy8ECKK8

    He also enjoys classical music and Stevie Ray Vaughn. He's learning Alley Cat on piano right now and He's A Pirate on violin.

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    Default Re: Strings For Vintage National Resonator Mandolin 489

    Quote Originally Posted by Verne Andru View Post
    As for the RM1's, a few years back I visited Nationals booth at NAMM. There was a fellow there doing some demos, an older musician who I didn't know but may even be a member here. Anyway, he told me that when National was designing the RM1 they came to him for his opinions. He said he insisted they make them to standard mandolin scale instead of their traditional longer scale. Not sure if it was based on anything, but it sounded like it was a major point of discussion and he was quite pleased to have prevailed.
    I remember reading similar things said by Wade Hampton Miller when I was erased arching my National RM-1: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=291775.
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