Likely Orville Gibson made mandolin

[TR Crandall Guitars]

Here is an interesting mandolin that came into our shop for repair.



Overall length 26 1/2", lower bout width 9 7/8", depth of sides 1 3/4", body length 14 7/8". Scale length 13 5/8", nut width 1 1/8", string spacing at bridge 1 11/16". No original internal braces (three were added somewhat recently to try and stabilize the top). The neck and neck block are carved from one piece. The carve of the back and top are very deep and bulbous.

Back is walnut, top fir or pine, sides sycamore, neck hemlock. The finish, inlay, tuners, and tailpiece are all consistent with Orville Gibson made instruments.

There are more pictures on our facebook page HERE

We have never seen another quite like it. We received a few request to post it here. Hope you enjoy!

-Alex

[journeybear]

You should definitely contact Dan at the Mandolin Archive about this. I think this would pre-date anything else on display there. I'm curious - what repairs does it need? I must say, it looks to be in very good shape, from this distance.

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

So does this one get excused from the ugliest scroll thread based on provenance alone?

Regardless, that thing is flat out cool.

[darrylicshon]

I like the look

[barney 59]

Anyone seen that tailpiece on another Gibson? The headstock design and the lack of any attempt at a scroll is unique otherwise it is really similar in construction to a 1902 F model that I have seen which might mean that Orville didn't personally make it. Orville's early prototypes were usually highly decorated with butterfly inlays and such and the crescents were usually much larger -this one is really subdued for Orville.

[TR Crandall Guitars]

This repair it needs is a three inch top crack caused by dryness this winter. Other wise it is in nice shape.

The tailpiece matches those found on the lyre mandolins that adorned the Orville Gibson labels. http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/uploads/lyre-large.jpg

It is an intriguing instrument and likely one of a kind.

[Ken Waltham]

I don't think that mandolin has ever been in Kalamazoo..... except maybe the Handel tuners.

[Graham McDonald]

A couple of things that should be thought about is whether the neck has been hollowed out and if the sides have been cut out of a solid block of timber. These were two aspects of building that were distinctively Orville. Another factor is the shorter 13 5/8 scale, as Orville was quite committed to the longer scale and even experimented with a longer 15" scale, but the e strings kept breaking.
One other possibility is the English Windsor company. They made a similar lump scroll f style instrument around 1910-12.

cheers

[barney 59]

The origin of the "Lump Scroll"---WoW! so there was a historical context to the lump scroll of the 1970's --I'll bet no one,not even at Gibson (or maybe particularly at Gibson) knew that! Could this be a prototype of an early attempt to accomplish what the 70's lump was trying to do by the new purchasers of Orville's name?-- to create a less labor intensive and therefore less expensive instrument? Is this lump completely(or at least mostly) hollow? Orville's hollow neck didn't pan out and the scroll as it ended up being built didn't really add much volume and from articles I've read Orville was experimenting with increased volume. This is a cool historical piece and I'd love to hear from someone like Roger Siminoff for his perspective on this one!
I don't know anything about the Windsor but everything about the body of this one, with exception of the lump is exactly like a Gibson from their early manufacturing period '02-'04. I also wondered about the rib construction, bent or carved?---- Orville Gibson's 1898 patent was for carved.

[RBMB]

What year did OG stop participating in the building of mandolins?

[goaty76]

I'm on the fence with this one. Really 50/50 from the pics I see. The build style and design are very OG but a few things, such ad the volute and neck heel, are slightly off from the other known instruments. It's possible it's an experiment from OG either pre or post dating his known body of work. Or there is possibility it was made by someone impressed with his original designs. Imitation is highest form of flattery.

Phil

[Michael Weaver]

Definitely looks 100% legit to me but I'm no expert. I freaking love it. You definitely have a piece of awesome history there. And yes the tailpiece and headstock match other early Gibsons.

[journeybear]

I'm thinking this is transitional. I wish I could find pictures of the earliest one I've seen (before this) which I think was 1895. This could fit into the timeline at a point where he was still standardizing his design. The lyre tailpiece looks right. Sycamore and hemlock - wow! Yes, I'm giving this a pass on the lump scroll. In fact, I believe that is the most beautiful lump scroll I have ever seen.

[mrmando]

I think it's a knockoff by a violin maker. No top bracing? Did Orville make any instruments with no top bracing?

I've seen other old mandolins with violin-style C-bouts like this ... I may be able to find a photo.

[goaty76]

I don't believe any of Orville's instruments had bracing. I thought that was a key part of his design.

Phil

[Jim Garber]

One other possibility is the English Windsor company. They made a similar lump scroll f style instrument around 1910-12.

Here is an ad from 1914 and poor photo of a Windsor Pyxe. Similar but not exactly to the OP's.

[Jim Garber]

Lots of pics of early Gibsons: The Orville Gibson Guitar and Mandolin -- tho nothing that resembles the OP's.

FWIW that tailpiece is pictured in my 1901 Tonk Brothers catalog and I have seen them on other brands as well.

[Timbofood]

Just doesn't look "Orvillian" to me. Fingerboard end not as "fluid" as Orville's hand would have made. Graham may be on to something, still pretty darned cool!

[Michael Weaver]

I think the Windsor is quite a bit different. Also note the Handels. Who else was putting Handels on their mandolins at that time? As long as they are original that is.

[Timbofood]

Star and crescent are....different.
Not saying it's not but, not certain it is either. I hold that it's still pretty darned cool!
This could be pretty interesting when the research starts flowing in.

[Jim Garber]

I think the Windsor is quite a bit different. Also note the Handels. Who else was putting Handels on their mandolins at that time? As long as they are original that is.

Agreed about the Windsor. Joseph Bohmann, Larson Brothers and CF Martin also used Handel tuners on various instruments. Here is a Larson-made Stahl bowlback and a Bohmann.

[Michael Weaver]

Hmmm....you're making me waiver a little Jim but I'm holding out. I have high hopes. I went back and looked through the pictures I have and the crescent is smaller than others but that doesn't mean much if this is a prototype. Also I can't find any pics with a body that drastic. I would love to see of the inside of it.

[Jim Garber]

Just because other makers used Handels doesn't mean that OHG didn't build it. I was just responding to your question and establishing that Gibson did not have exclusive access to these tuners.

[Michael Weaver]

Just because other makers used Handels doesn't mean that OHG didn't build it. I was just responding to your question and establishing that Gibson did not have exclusive access to these tuners.

No I know what you were saying. I just wish I could find a picture close. Watch there be a label on the inside.....

[journeybear]

I hope everyone's looking at the OP's facebook page. Many more photos there.