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Thread: Is this good for braces?

  1. #1

    Default Is this good for braces?

    Is this wood good for X-Braces?
    At my local Big Box Store, I ran across this board. Nice tight grain, cut from the center of the log the grain on each edge is near perfectly quartersawn. I ripped a few pieces, thinking it would work well for bracing. Not sure what kind of wood it is, but is lightweight and nice tight grain. Then I noticed a little bit of runout, and I now wonder if the darker color in those spots might be prone to splitting as the wood ages and dries once everything is finished.

    So what do you think? Is this wood suitable, or should I keep looking?

    PhilClick image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Teacher, repair person
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    It all depends upon its lateral stiffness. Bracewood must be pretty stiff. If that's good, any pieces with vertical grain should be usable.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    When we talk about runout it is the split perpendicular to the grain lines. On a planed edge of quartersawn spruce (like in preparing the top center joint or a bar) I can usually see it but it is almost invisible if you don’t know what you’re looking for. Once you split it parallel to the grain you need to split it again perpendicularly (this is actually what’s happening when a log is split into wedges). Otherwise what we think looks quartersawn won’t do much for you as it can just snap diagonally. This is important along with all the other properties of your wood.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    Here is an example of a top billet, ostensibly quartersawn but with bad runout. The black line is to highlight the nearly invisible lines that follow the true direction. Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    The grading stamp has 'SPF' (spruce-pine-fir), which groups western species of similar strength. The spruce is Engelmann, the pine is lodgepole or other similar western pines, and the fir is white fir.
    Your photo appears to be Engelmann, which can work very well for bracing. The fact that it contains the pith means that vertical runout should be minimal. The small amount of runout you show on the sides of the bracing is much less concerning.
    In the 1980's, I sourced most of my Engelmann tops and braces from construction lumber, selecting from stacks of S-P-F. I quickly learnd how to distinguish Engelmann from the other woods.
    Pine is usually easy to identify, having relatively large, dark knots and a resin-y odor. Also, the resin canals tend to be noticeably larger than those in Engelmann. White fir resembles Engelmann, but lacks resin canals and often has a disagreeable odor.
    While the 'center cut' board shown is convenient for cutting braces, it is not essential. Braces can be cut from most any grain orientation by angling the ripping such that the cuts are parallel with the growth rings. The main characteristics of good bracewood are straight grain and minimal runout in the vertical direction. Grain width is not a reliable indicator for stiffness, but thicker latewood (aka 'hard line') does tend to be stiffer.
    Most of my favored Engelmann has had at least some hard line.
    Last edited by John Arnold; Mar-10-2024 at 6:40am.
    John

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  7. #6
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    I have used a lot of wood from lumber yard that could be sold as tonewood. But I would look into thick quartered boards and only cut pieces farther from the center as the center contains more knots and defects. My best bracing spruce is from split firewood from large logs that had some rot in the center but the outside 8-10" was healthy clean and straight splitting.
    Adrian

  8. #7
    Registered User PT66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    I’ve seen worse on 100 year old Gibson guitars that are doing just fine. Just sayin’.
    Dave Schneider

  9. #8

    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    Good points, and sure, there is a science to it all, but the question, for me, is can you hear it?

    As a matter of practice, we are taught if you use the best materials you get the best results, but....

    A lot of cheap laminated stuff sounds great, IMHO.

    Even, John D'Angelico liked to use Formica to repair/reinforce cracked bridge plates on acoustic guitars....I wonder how many customers said, "hey John, I really prefer Adi spruce for my bridge plate.....?" (back when wood was cheap and Formica was a "space-age" product!)

    Hey, a lot of 60 year old houses, still have Formica in DAILY use!!!

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    I have a 100+ year old guitar made by Lyon and Healy, and the first brace you can see thru the sound hole has a knot the height of the brace. It' been working for over 100 years and the top is flat. It is an 0 sized guitar and ladder braced.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  11. #10
    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    All that may be true, but why not use the best stuff you can find now?
    Bill
    IM(NS)HO

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  13. #11
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    Quote Originally Posted by billhay4 View Post
    All that may be true, but why not use the best stuff you can find now?
    Bill
    I agree, just saying inferior stuff has survived for more than 100 years. The stuff the OP showed is so much better.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  14. #12
    Registered User PT66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    Quote Originally Posted by billhay4 View Post
    All that may be true, but why not use the best stuff you can find now?
    Bill
    The quality of the material is secondary to the quality of workmanship. You can make poor materials sound good with good workmanship but you can’t make poor workmanship sound good with great materials.
    Dave Schneider

  15. #13
    Registered User bpatrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    That looks like a piece of spruce, but possibly European spruce? I went to the website listed; binderholz.com. The company seems to be headquartered in Austria? PEFC also seems to be a euro-centric forest sustainability organization. It could be you have some fine, slow growing, high alpine European spruce...or not…

    I recently bought a tight and clear spruce 1 x 4 for some home related project at Home Depot. It was a product of Sweden. I guess it's cheaper to get wholesale wood from Europe these days.

    Many years ago, I made the tops of my first two mandolins with a piece of spruce from Lowes. I picked through the pile and came up with a nice tight grained board. I think it was labeled SPF from Idaho. I spoke with someone at the USDA Forest Products Laboratory about getting it identified. They told me it was likely Engelmann or Blue Spruce. Either way, it made a couple of nice sounding and good looking soundboards that are still holding up well today. Since then, I've gotten Adirondack tops from Old Standard Wood in Missouri.
    Bryan Patrick

  16. #14
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    Default Re: Is this good for braces?

    I am a young builder.......but a very respected building mentor told me once if you want the best pieces to use for tone bars, you cant just cut a couple out of one piece of wood or only order 2. To his advice, I will make 30 or 40 of them (they are small and dont take much time to mill up)....but all the same dimension. Then I give them all the plink test (dropping them on something to make them resonate) and put them into piles from "dud" to "sounds nice".........then I have my best ones (The rest make great spacers for tonewood) I once had a nice piece of red and sitka from tonewood dealers......but made my best sounding tonebars for my builds now from the bracewood on a 120 year old piano soundboard.....at the end of the day I dont want to fit and glue them in and THEN find a piece that sounded better..... I dont think anything is right or wrong (mostly) but its the way that works for me.

    Cam

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