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Thread: 1921 F4 .feedback please

  1. #1

    Default 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Recently I have been looking at this F4 with a view as a possible purchase.
    After getting my hands on the instrument I have come to the conclusion it has been over sprayed at some stage.The finish is different to an A4 1918 that own in the sense that it is crazing in a particular way that indicates overspray,coupled with the more obvious tell tale signs around the oval hole of red drips around the hole which I feel are a definite sign of the over spray.The instrument exhibits the overspray on the top and back. It is in good condition apart from one small split that is in the lower bout.It sounds thin, I suspect due to the metal bridge, which I understand is original to the vintage.Can the cafe experts put a dollar figure on the instrument, and offer any opinions on my observations.Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Registered User tim noble's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    "the more obvious tell tale signs around the oval hole of red drips around the hole which I feel are a definite sign of the over spray"
    That is more indicative of a refin not an overspray. 1921 should be a varnish finish which should be easy to differentiate from lacquer. If you post some more detailed well-focused photos it may be possible to tell.
    Tim

  3. #3
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Hello David,

    Yes if you can get us larger photos in sharp focus we can better help..

    The colors look right to me, overspray might indeed be present but very hard to tell without more detailed photos.

    The aluminum saddle is original to that time. I actually put one *on* an F2 that was heavily bassy as it balances it a bit. You could change the bridge (this version doesn't have a swappable saddle with the wooden type) and see if that improves the tone.
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    Registered User pfox14's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Have to see a few more detailed photos to help you out.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    I have seen several F4's with the red "dripping" near the f/b extension, and soundhole area. This is straight from the factory, and does not necessarily mean refinish at all. The most common sign of an overspray is lacquer on the label, as they didn't seem to be too careful back then.
    Also, these crazings, be careful, you may have an original example there, in really nice shape. From the photo you provide, it looks that way. More photos would help most.

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    Registered User sgrexa's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Yes, the drippings would actually be "normal" and it wouldn't even be out of the realm of possibilities for Gibson to have used lacquer on a 1921 F-4. According to Steve Gilchrist, they started using it as early as 1918 on A3s and Sheraton brown A models. I would need to see better photographs but from what I do see, it looks fine.

    Sean

  7. #7
    Registered User tim noble's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Interesting - I have an early 1922 F4 that is clearly varnished (although its a Cremona finish not red). Is it likely that they experimented with lacquer with less expensive models before switching to lacquer in 1924/25? However that doesn't explain why a 1921 F4 could be lacquer when they were typically varnish at that time. I know that Martin transitioned from varnish to lacquer in the late 20s and have an early 1928 00018 with lacquer back and sides and varnish/french polished top.
    Tim

  8. #8
    Registered User sgrexa's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    I believe your F4 would be an oddball indeed if it were lacquer, I was just hinting that it was possible, that is all. It is way more likely varnished.

    Sean

  9. #9
    acoustically inert F-2 Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    That's a beautiful looking F-4. What I can see of the case looks good too. What's the asking price?
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    Registered User Gary Hedrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is a photo of one I own that is of the same age....

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  12. #11
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    I notice the case is in very nice condition as well. That would indicate a very well cared for instrument. Cases are almost always in worse condition.
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  14. #12

    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	123475Here is another photo .The case is in very good condition as well.For owners of similar F4's of the period I am wondering what strings you use.This has no truss rod and I am concerned about the pressure on the top and neck.Thanks for all those who have already commented.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #13

    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    D'Addario J74's.

  16. #14
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Down right beautiful. I wouldn't worry one bit about whether it is varnish, laquer, over-sprayed, etc. as long as it plays well. You might replace the metal bridge saddle with an ebony one. (Keep the original of course). The torch is fabulous.
    Jammin' south of the river
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  18. #15

    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    I really don't believe that is oversprayed at all. I think you have a stunning 1921 F4 there.

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  20. #16
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Is this a player or a collector purchase? looks good in the pictures, at least..
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  21. #17

    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    How many mandolins do you need to own, before they become a collection ?
    It will be a "player" ,
    but also part of the "collection"

  22. #18

    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    I'm in agreement with Captain E above.

    That F-4 looks wonderful.

    If the price is agreeable, buy it, and quit worrying about the finish...

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  24. #19
    Registered User Doug Heinold's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    I purchased a 1921 F4 earlier this year as a "player"... definitely in rougher condition than the one in your pictures, but stable and most importantly sounds good. To me it seems it is all a bit of a sliding scale. I was looking for a player, and I chose something that needed a little work and was priced accordingly. IMHO, a few rough elements add to the antique charm of the instrument. But if the price is up near vintage dealer pricing, it would need to be near perfect in appearance and sound to shell out what these era F4's seem to command. Good luck!
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  25. #20
    Registered User sgrexa's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1921 F4 .feedback please

    Wouldn't overspray be pretty easy to see with a black light? I thought that was the definitive "test".

    Sean

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