Octave Mando vs tenor guitar

[jazzjune18]

Howdy. I understand the obvious structural differences between an octave Mando and a tenor tuned gdae, but what are the main differences when it comes to sound, playing, etc? Pros and cons of each?

[Lord of the Badgers]

OK I'll bite ...
I have both at the moment.

Tenor Guitar... quiet - small body, single courses certainly lend it that nature... obviously lends itself to fingerstyle a bit more readily. Bit easier to fret if your hands aren't used to the tension of an octave - though you could get a bouzouki if that's a concern. Mine is a Buchanan, 20" scale. Fretboard much narrower than my Fylde octave. So, easy to play.. but on the downside, I need heavy strings as I'm used to fretting double courses, so I find the current strings (GDAE) bend too easy as I over compensate. So I have to be careful not to play out of tune!!!

Octave Mando..
For me, it feels more brash. That might be down to the instrument, as tbh, i'm not entirely satisfied with either instruments as time goes on. I had to go for fairly light strings due to being used to my zouk.
But... it's loud and GROWLS like a beast (tho not 'cello growl certainly)... it's got POWER and is a blast on the right material. At the moment I'm most in love with it than I've been in a while and have been writing on it. Something makes me want to try something like a Weber as I keep seeing them on the TAMCO Brighton site and thinking that they look cool.
I did once happen upon one made by my main luthier, f holes, narrow neck width. Pity it was a southpaw's instrument cause it felt great.

Note... I don't really play tunes I'm more of an accompaniment sort as I'm a song writer.

[Marty Jacobson]

I think the best answer will be from yourself. Listen to a bunch of youtube clips of each, and see which one you think would work best for what you want to do. I don't really like to flatpick a tenor guitar like I would an OM. But I love to fingerpick a tenor guitar (though I'm still figuring out how best to do that), and the tenor guitar's character opens up a lot of possibilities not available on mandolin-family instruments.
They are very different instruments. Fortunately decent tenor guitars are fairly inexpensive, so maybe you can have one of each.

[Mike Floorstand]

An OM should be like a tenor guitar fed through a distortion pedal. In a good way.

I'm interested in tenor guitars but never played one I liked enough to buy. I suspect they are best played in CGDA for jazz chord-melody pieces, which is a style for which I have yet to develop any technique or repertoire.

[John Flynn]

An OM should be like a tenor guitar fed through a distortion pedal. In a good way.

Not sure I agree with that. I play a custom-built Mendel OM at church every week and I find it to have what I call a very "church-y" sound, by which I mean sort of majestic, compared to either a six or four string guitar, yet simpler and cleaner than a 12 string guitar.

But these are all attempts to describe sounds in words. As has been said, you should really find recordings of each and see what you like.

[Lord of the Badgers]

It is worth playing with different tunings on a tenor though...


Oh and it's massively more cool than being another six string player

As Marty says... get both!

[Lord of the Badgers]

Not sure I agree with that.

You're right.. it's not my experience either... !

[djweiss]

I play mainly honky-tonk and swing on my tenor, primarily fills/leads. As such I find the big mandolin family instruments too jangly (like a 12 string guitar vs 6 string). I prefer tenor instruments tuned to FCGD, which gives me lots of sustain and low notes, while all my mandolin theory still pertains. Between my Arrow 5 string Archtop Tenor and various resonator tenors, I've never felt they were quiet...

[Mark Wilson]

Tenor Guitar...So, easy to play.. but on the downside, I need heavy strings as I'm used to fretting double courses, so I find the current strings (GDAE) bend too easy as I over compensate. So I have to be careful not to play out of tune!!!

I found this to be my biggest adjustment on tenor. My Gibson TG-1 tenor tuned CGDA has string tension like an electric guitar. Seems mushy to both hands at first and its easy to push notes sharp coming from mandolin. The scale length is a challenge.

To me the tenor is the prettiest sounding instrument I own. Soft and mellow acoustic guitar sound but with a tone of its own. Reminds me of the sound you can get from old archtop jazz guitars amplified. Has the 23" scale so capo stays on the 3rd fret to shorten it up. But man what a sound. I play flatpick and can play most tunes I learned on mandolin with some adaption to the scale. It's a challenge to play coming from mandolin but it does reward the effort.

Wish I could compare my tenor to OM but I've never held one just listened to YT and builder videos. They do not sound at all similar to a tenor guitar imo.

[ukrobbiej]

OK I'll bite ...
Something makes me want to try something like a Weber as I keep seeing them on the TAMCO Brighton site and thinking that they look cool.

Hey Badger, I have a Weber Yellowstone Octave Mandolin that is wonderful, you are very welcome to try it some time. I see you are based in the South West- I've just recently moved to Bradford On Avon. Let me know

Robbie

[Eddie Sheehy]

Tenor guitar is great for Blues since the strings bend so easily, also marvelous sustain...

[mandroid]

then again Irish Zouk is a long scale Octave .. the shorter scale octave uses thicker strings
to get the sound of the octave lower (than mandolin)

[bruce.b]

I wouldn't describe my Herb Taylor arch top tenor as quiet. It works well playing with 6 stringers. I'd say it's in the same general volume range as a 6 string and my brother often comments how the timbre of mine really cuts through and stands out against his 6 stringers.

>>I suspect they are best played in CGDA for jazz chord-melody pieces<<

I play tenor tuned GDAE and it's wonderful for playing fiddle tunes. Most of the players I know are playing Irish trad and tuned GDAE. I think it's great that there are three very different tunings commonly used on tenors, CGDA, GDAE and DGBE and all of them sound quite different and work equally well. Some of the best known players tuned DGBE, not 5ths. I think it's obvious that this statement is not true.

[Lord of the Badgers]

Hey Badger, I have a Weber Yellowstone Octave Mandolin that is wonderful, you are very welcome to try it some time. I see you are based in the South West- I've just recently moved to Bradford On Avon. Let me know

Robbie

Robbie... that's cool - I'm up for that. Get yerself to The Three Horseshoes on the 28th.. we're playing - be good to meet a fellow mando obsessive as always! (from another Rob)

[Lord of the Badgers]

Well folks I just tuned mine to GDBD (the Tenor that is)... jolly good fun...
I find I experiment with tunings a lot more on it.

But the jury's still out on the instrument for me. I do like double courses.. we'll see I want to put it thru our PA one day

[darrylicshon]

I think you need to play as many of both to really find out what you like there is so much different things about both , they both come in different scale lengths which has alot to how it plays and feel. I have a few octave i like a scale length of 19" - 20" , but they do have longer scale lengths, try as many as you can

[Mike Floorstand]

You're right.. it's not my experience either... !

LOTB: I think I am referring to the sound you describe as a "growl" from your Fylde. That's what I hear in my Shippey, and what I like. I have played OM's that don't have it, and didn't like them so much.
John: not sure what a "church-y or "majestic" sound would be - that would have connotations of organ music for me, which I would not associate with an OM.

The stereotypical sounds I would be looking for would be something like:
12-string guitar - jangly
Bouzouki - twangy, nasal
OM - growls
Guitar - pianistic
Mandolin - well, like a mandolin, innit?

[Mike Floorstand]

>>I suspect they are best played in CGDA for jazz chord-melody pieces<<

I play tenor tuned GDAE and it's wonderful for playing fiddle tunes. Most of the players I know are playing Irish trad and tuned GDAE. I think it's great that there are three very different tunings commonly used on tenors, CGDA, GDAE and DGBE and all of them sound quite different and work equally well. Some of the best known players tuned DGBE, not 5ths. I think it's obvious that this statement is not true.

Obviously I have heard tenor guitars playing ITM in GDAE I'm just not keen on the sound. It sounds like a guitar trying to be a banjo, but lacking the best features of either. Whereas tuned CGDA (or DGBE, which I believe is the tuning jazz band guitarists used to save learning fifths tuning) and playing jazz rhythm or chord-melody, that for me captures the unique personality of the tenor guitar.

[Lord of the Badgers]

That's what I hear in my Shippey

not jealous. honest. Paul is a friend of a friend (I'm not far from where he lives).. but that waiting list... have you seen that new 5 string "artist" mando of his?

[bruce.b]

>>Obviously I have heard tenor guitars playing ITM in GDAE I'm just not keen on the sound. It sounds like a guitar trying to be a banjo, but lacking the best features of either.<<

For an example of a tenor guitar sounding like a tenor guitar listen to Kevin Macleod. I feel he really nails it and plays to the instrument's advantages. His new CD, Highland Strands is beautiful. To my ear he plays it more like a mandolin family instrument, which is how I see it too. You don't have to play it like a banjo for ITM unless you want to.

[Lord of the Badgers]

heard the clips of the above album Bruce that you mention - if only I was a fifth as good... sob

[luthierseye]

[QUOTE=Lord of the Badgers;1322084]It is worth playing with different tunings on a tenor though...


Oh and it's massively more cool than being another six string player

As an instrumental soloist, I agree. I mainly use a six string guitar as my "mini-orchestra" to back me as a singer/songwriter and it works wonderfully.
When I do play an instrumental solo, the OM gets loads of attention as it is not frequently heard; and yes that's where it is so cool. Try Autumn Leaves(Johnny Mercer) on the OM in Em; awesome!!

[SincereCorgi]

If the 'jazz' part in Jazzjune is the operative word, I'd go for a tenor guitar. They work very well as swing rhythm instruments, whereas an octave mandolin would sound strange. You could, I suppose, cook up a Tom Waits-y jazz combo with deliberately off-sounding instruments, and a octave would be great in that.

[Steve Zawacki]

For me, it all depends what genre gets the most playing time. I don't do Irish Folk, so my TG (Blueridge BR-40T) is now set on CGDA to handle rock and such. Have had the TG on GDAE, but my tin ear prefers CGDA. As an old six-string guy, have fallen in love with the TG for its mellowness and adaptability and wonder what took me so long to Go-4.