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Thread: Absolute beginner looking for advice

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    Default Absolute beginner looking for advice

    So you've all probably seen this kind of post before. I want to learn to play an instrument and have for a lot of years. I have thought long and hard and find myself drawn to the mandolin more than any other instrument. Is it realistic to learn to play music on a mandolin? I have absolutely no music ability, though I have been an avid roots music lover for a long time. I'm committed to whatever it takes... assuming lessons and lots and lots and lots of practice. Suggestions for a bluegrass lover's first mandolin? Advice on this plan? Thank you in advance for any guidance provided. Peace, UberGinger

  2. #2

    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    I just started taking mandolin lessons and so far I am finding it pretty easy to pick up (granted I have dabbled in guitar as well and have a bit of a musical background singing for a long time). I am by no means an expert though...I hardly read music and have only basic theory understanding. I think It is a great instrument to try for a first go at one. I cant help you too much with a good first mandolin as I just posted about that here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...g-for-the-Buck good luck with it!

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    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Take a look at this recent active thread: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ement-Beginner

    Your question has been answered many times here. Basic conclusion is to go for it, but find a decent instrument. That will cost you $300 or so. Used would be good, since you could sell at same price later when you want something better.

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    Bark first, Bite later Steve Zawacki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    First question is whether there are any musical clubs, etc. near where you live. Getting face-to-face advice and actually handling a few instruments may impact what you do.

    Second question is if there are are music stores near you which carry mandolins as a major part of their business/inventory? Again, it helps to be able to go through the "Goldilocks" step of finding which instrument feels best to you. They all have different neck diameters and shapes, the weights are close, and the basic shapes (A-style, F-style, Flattop) and sound holes affect sound and aesthetics.

    Prices vary dramatically. A little research can save a lot and keep from buying a throwaway.

    Hope this helps a little.
    ...Steve

    Current Stable: Two Tenor Guitars (Martin 515, Blueridge BR-40T), a Tenor Banjo (Deering GoodTime 17-Fret), a Mandolin (Burgess #7). two Banjo-Ukes and five Ukuleles..

    The inventory is always in some flux, but that's part of the fun.

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    thank you so much for the advice. Ianbarton -- good thought to rent one. Best of luck with your new passion and your purchase. Steve - I think there is place nearby or not too far that specializes in alt stringed instruments. I'm going to Fresh Grass Bluegrass festival this weekend so I'm going to be doing some investigation there. Perhaps Sam Bush will give me some advice. HAA! (kidding)... Thanks Capt E for the link -- it was helpful. I got what I needed -- yes, this is doable and not crazy as long as I'm willing to put in the time and you've provided some resources.

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    TBI survivor Richard J's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Take classes from a good mandolinist, not just a guitarist who can also play a mandolin. Then practice, practice, practice and practice again.
    I think, therefore, I pick.

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    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Since you don't want to get one and then realize it's not the one you want (that will happen anyways, but it's better if it's not right away!) you need to explore and decide if you want one with an oval hole or F holes. They will sound very different from each other (If you are a Sam Bush fan, that might give you a clue)
    The scroll part is less important and will be more a matter of affordability, as both kinds come with and without. This is a good place to start looking, and he offers a set-up with purchase, which is crucial.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Quote Originally Posted by UberGinger View Post
    ...I want to learn to play an instrument and have for a lot of years. I have thought long and hard and find myself drawn to the mandolin more than any other instrument.
    Which is a good start -- motivation and specific interest in mandolin

    Is it realistic to learn to play music on a mandolin?
    Yes. It's not the easiest instrument to learn -- I usually suggest harmonica for those who really have no musical background and want to be able to play something recognizable in a short time -- but if you're "committed to…lessons and lots and lots and lots of practice," you can do it.

    The biggest problems beginners seem to encounter, generally relate to buying a bottom-end instrument that's not properly set up. As a learner, having a mandolin that plays easily and in tune is more important than getting one that sounds good. Beginners don't sound good right away -- obviously -- and a hard-to-play, unresponsive instrument discourages practice and frustrates both student and teacher.

    Suggestions for a bluegrass lover's first mandolin? Advice on this plan?...
    As a "bluegrass lover," you're used to the sound of a carved-top, f-hole mandolin, so I'd suggest an inexpensive A-model (no use paying for the scroll etc. when you're starting out), such as the Kentucky KM-150, available for around $300. It's all solid woods, decently made, and if well set up, will be very adequate for learning and for a couple years of progress. I'm showing the Mandolin Store's page, because they do shop set-ups (as does Elderly Instruments, which also sells the KM-150). You can get it at Musician's Friend for just over $200, but without a case and not set up.

    If you can rent an equivalent model locally, that's a good "toe in the water" step. Try to find a place where the rental fees apply to the purchase price, if you decide to keep the rental.

    Good luck.
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    I am gonna chime in since I am a beginner player. Maybe, it will help you out?

    Is it realistic to learn to play music on a mandolin?
    Yes, it is realistic. With the amount of books and videos out there, people can learn just about everything. I just took up the mandolin and I found it a breeze but again, one thing to remember about me is that I've had 7 years of violin playing. Because of this, it was easy for me to catch on, due to the fact that it was in fifths. The notes are similar to the violin and therefore, it was easy for me to pick out stuff.

    Since you are wanting to learn and just beginning, I would suggest books and lessons, as well as a good mandolin. Books are going to help you out, for it will teach you how to properly read sheet music as well as how to hold the instrument and pick as well as strum. Lessons will help you by teaching you how to identify how the note correctly sounds, the fingers, as well as learning to read music and/or play by ear.

    In my opinion, a mix of lessons and books will help you catch up faster.

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    Registered User Petrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Helpful Hint: Extended tremolo can be a great way to stall for time while you're trying to remember how the next measure goes.

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    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Hi UberGinger,

    Lots of good advice here. Here are a few thoughts of mine some of which are echoing those of others.

    1. I would find a good teacher even if you have to drive a bit to get to him/her. I think that one-on-one is very helpful. If it doesn't feel right after a couple of lessons, find another teacher instead. Not all teachers, even good ones, are a fit for all students.

    2. Buy a decent mandolin from a reputable dealer that does a good set-up. How the instrument is set-up is, perhaps, even more important that what instrument you buy (within reason). Set-up is crucial!

    3. While opinions differ, if you really want to do this, I would buy, not rent, and I would stretch a little to buy a slightly better instrument. Knowing you committed a few bucks to this, and knowing that the beauty sitting there is all yours, and having it be really a thing of beauty is a great motivator when you get to a slump and feel like quitting (which undoubtedly will come at some point). Committing right up front like that might keep you going through the slump.

    4. Consider a good flat-top. Sure, you are going to want a carved, arch-top in time, but save that purchase until you are ready to commit real money to the venture and use it as a reward when you achieve some musical goal. By doing so, you will already own an instrument that you will want to keep when you buy an arch-top anyway. This will allow you to expand your tonal palette. I own both and, unexpectedly, my flat-top gets more play time than my fairly expensive arch-top. Flat-tops get you a lot of instrument for the money.

    These are just my thoughts. Others will disagree with some of them and their thoughts are equally correct.

    One overlying comment is, however, this is really not a difficult instrument to learn at a basic level, you can learn to play it, and if you really commit to it, you will learn to play it. In doing so, you are going to have a lot of fun and make some great friends.

    Best wishes,

    Bob

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    You will soon learn, if you haven't already, that bluegrassers tend to prefer the scroll as a strap-hanger. This complex carving generally adds a significant amount to the price of the instrument. You may or may not want to go that route. It is a matter of tradition, not tone, which suggests that. On the other hand many bluegrass players started on mandos without the (scroll) strap hangers and did just fine.

    If you could tell us roughly how much you are willing to spend on your first mando and whether the scroll is important to you, we could be more specific and helpful.

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    I would say once you have the mandolin. Practice a lot! Many people don't really know how to practice. My suggestion is simplicity. Take a song you know. Break it down into 7 or 8 note lines (or whatever fits the song) and stay with those several notes and play them over and over. Not 5 times, 10 times, 20 times. Hundreds and hundreds of times. Then put the pieces together. Once you have the whole song down, THEN, the most important part is to get the feel of the song or the bounce or the "swing" of it. That's what separates the student from the stage performer.

    I started playing guitar when I was 9. When I was 50, I bought a B-bender and basically became a beginning guitar player again. But again, with practice--same technique--repeating a phrase over and over--after 1000 times you can do it without thinking about it (or looking at the neck). I hope this helps.

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    Registered User John Gardinsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Times a wastin'...if you are interested then get the best instrument you can afford and get after it. Every single musician started at some point with no musical ability except for the ability to listen. It takes a lot of hard work but it is fun too.

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    WOW! I go to a Bluegrass Festival and I come back all inspired and to all this great advise. Thank you, thank you all! Fresh Grass was a whole lot of fun. Great music -- some wasn't quite my taste, but that's the way it goes. So I've decided I'm going to buy and it seems the Kentucky KM150 is the most common suggestion from multiple sources. AND I'm going to take live lessons (as opposed to trying to learn via videos / books to start). I'll let you know how it goes. Cheers! Susan

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    should I look for someone who teaches BLUEGRASS Mandolin or is that a stretch?

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Check out the videos at pete@petimarpress.com

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Absolute beginner here as well (an not a young one), I also have never played music before. I started taking lessons late spring and summer/September has been hit or miss for scheduling so has been going slower than I would have hoped.

    I started with an Eastman 305, all I could ask in a entry level mandolin. The Kentucky 150 should be fine, I have not played one but there are many good entry level mandolins. As mentioned SET-UP IS CRUTICAL. You will not understand until you play one that is not set-up properly and then play it once it is set-up correctly.

    I would strongly suggest a good teacher in person. When I started I quickly developed a slight hesitation between measures. My teacher quickly put a halt to it. If I was just watching videos or working out of a book I might have developed some very bad habits without realizing it. I think as I progress I will still take an occasional lesson or workshop just to make sure I am on track or learn some new stuff.
    I don't think you will need a Bluegrass specific teacher. Bluegrass, Old Time and Country all come from the same music originally. I would think just playing will get you headed in the right direction. I try to practice 45 min to an hour a day. Be prepared to get callouses on your fingers.

    You will need to decide if you want to take lessons with tab or learning to read music. My instructor is a classically trained musician and only teaches to read music. I figure that tab will be fairly easy to learn if I can read music. It will take more time but there are benefits. On the other hand it seems faster to learn tab (my daughter is doing tab in her fiddle lessons) and there are many great musicians that don't read music.

    It will be frustrating at times and some days I just really struggle then the next it seems better. You will notice steps where you just get something you have been struggling with.

    Good Luck and stick with it.

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    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    lessons, arch-top, strap hanger and such. All fun to ponder. The longer I play (for fun only), the more I liken learning music to learning a language. Then I think of how I (we?) learn language. We're all given a voice box and we just experiment on imitating what we hear (English, our parents/siblings). After a spell of aping, we then go on to learn to read and the difference between a noun and vowel.

    My advice - go get a mandolin. I'd get an arch-top, a-model, properly setup by a mandolincafe sponsor. Pay the extra! I'd get a heavy triangle pick (Gibson or Fender or Dunlop), a tuner, a package of D'Adderio J74 strings (always need a spare set about) and I'd make noise. Tablature is fun! Learn a basic set of chords (A, C, D, E, G) including a few minor chords (Em, Am, Dm, Bm). Want to play Wagon Wheel? Google the chords and strum along. Get it in your ear what you want to sound like, try to make that noise.

    You learn to play what you can hear.

    I mean if you know no music, folks will want to explain how to build a scale or theory about chord structure. That's interesting (to me, I'm an engineer). Turns out though, I'd rather just play.

    You just need a mandolin and some sofa time. . .

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Since I am confused by what many of you are saying about mandolin specs due to my complete lack of knowledge of the actual instrument, my first purchase was Mandolin for Dummies. I like to start at the very beginning. When I'm not a completely mandomoron, I shall buy my mandolin. I'm OK with callouses. I'm calling the local luthier today to get their advice and will start going to events there. My first song will NOT be Wagon Wheel, even though it's a catchy tune. I believe there's a bluegrass law again excessive Wagon Wheel playing.

  36. #21

    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    You may not be lucky enough to find someone who plays bluegrass mando as a teacher As a beginner you have a lot of very basic stuff to go through and it is probably not paramount that you find a "Bluegrass teacher". You may be lucky to find someone who plays mandolin at all. but you sound self-motivated and can likely learn by yourself if you have to. There are a few instructional videos by Mike Marshal on very basic mando mandolin techniques, like posture, holding the mando, hand and finger positions, etc and you will find oodles of other video lessons for free on the internet.

    If you are willing to spend up to $400-$500 you will have some great choices. Kentucky and The Loar are two brands which come to mind selling new instruments which have good reputations sound wise. It may take a little nerve, but you can often find pretty good deals on used instruments in that price range, which usually will give you a better instrument for the money compared with buying new.

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    Default Re: Absolute beginner looking for advice

    Check out todays Classified, There is a nice "The Loar" for sale for about $500 shipping included if I recall. Likely a fine beginner instrument for a bluegrass lover.

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