Looking for Information on this Mandolin

[adria1191]

I am looking for some information on this instrument. I don't know anything about mandolins. All I know is that this came from an old house. It looks like the label inside says "WHG" or "WRG" with a year that looks like either 1934 or 1984-very hard to read. Any help in identifying the make, time period it might have been made would be helpful.

[MikeEdgerton]

I suspect that is a 30's mandolin made by Slingerland. Then again, there are some other builder's traits there as well. It not from 1984, it's the earlier date. And the more I look at it the more it looks like a Frankenmando, different builders parts put together. If it wasn't factory built someone did a nice job building it.

[Perry Babasin]

Very cool looking mandolin!! I love the wood, I'll bet it sounds good!

[F-2 Dave]

I like it. Can't help with info, but it looks like a really decent quality vintage mandolin.

[adria1191]

Thank you all for the replies. I really don't know what to do with it. Nobody in my family plays the mandolin but it's nice to know that it is in an older instrument.

[bart mcneil]

It appears to have a steam pressed top and back. A solid top which yours likely is, is usually desirable.

There might be some interest if you decide to sell it on the classified section of this site. You could sell it as "make offer" if you don't want to list a price It is impossible to tell if there would be much interest in it but it might be worth a try.

[JeffD]

Sure is a pretty thing.

[adria1191]

Looking at the stamp on the inside more carefully it looks like it also says "Alexander" something. I can't read it. It's pretty faded. Maybe this helps narrow it down a bit more.

[Capt. E]

The case looks just like a Geib "Challenger" I own. The stamp on the back of the case will say G&S prior to 1937, Geib after. I'll bet the mandolin is of the same era (pre-WWII). The back has nice grain to it and the top is nicely bound...probably equivalent to the best of the Strad-O-Lins.

[bingoccc]

There's probably no connection but there used to be a Wm. R. Gratz import company that dealt in musical instruments in New York City. They were there at least up until the 40's. I have no idea if they ever dealt in mandolins but they were always adding whatever they could to the line. They may have carried domestic instruments.

If you know any one with a good UV light that may bring out a little more of the label.

[adria1191]

The case definitely says G&S Co Challenge or Challenger. I don't know if it's a clue but there are several old sheets of music in the case (Ukrainian I believe). I love vintage things and often search for the story behind what I own. It is really nice to learn about this instrument. I thank you all so much. Yeah, being able to read the inside a bit better would be great. Wm R Gratz could possibly explain the "WRG." Thank you!

[MikeEdgerton]

If that instrument was imported it was imported from the American midwest. It's American made, in the 30's. The case is a common case used on many instruments in that time period. The tailpiece was used on Regal built instruments that I know of but was a common Waverly product. Some things confuse me a bit. It almost looks like a Gibson style neck block. Frank Kordick the president of Regal musical instruments in Chicago used to pattern some of his guitars shapes after Gibson built instruments. They could have built this as well, they had the ability. The headstock looks more Slingerland to me. I can't find a Slingerland mandolin in a catalog with an oval hole and arched top but that doesn't mean a whole lot. All of the major builders built instruments at one time or another for the trade, where a music teacher or distributor could put their label inside. I'd like to see a close up of the label.

[Jeff Mando]

I agree with Mike, def USA made and those cases show up with various brands. Appears to have more "quality" than the average Chicago made mandolin. The 3-piece V neck, for example, would remind me of Epiphone (old 20's USA, Epi--not recent import) If you click on the pics a couple times they will enlarge to show from the backside it almost looks like a snakehead peghead shape. Of course, from the front, we see it is bound, which the Gibson wouldn't have. Pickguard bracket looks Gibson, it could have been added later. It would be helpful to see a close-up pic of the peghead front and the neck joint from the front. As far as the label goes, it was very common for repairmen to paste their own label and date it when a repair was made. We see this a lot with violins. Let's say it is a 20's mandolin that was repaired or modified by WRG? in 1934? A possibility. The wood marquetry binding and rosette were commonly seen on Regal and Stella instruments. But, could have been added by a repairman, as well as the peghead binding....just a thought? Back appears to be solid maple and it was repaired with cleats near the label. All in all, looks way more sophisticated than most Chicago instruments. Slingerland is a good guess--I had a May-Bell 30's guitar that had the 3-piece V neck (made by Slingerland). It also had a Gibson style peghead shape. OK, my brain hurts, somebody else take over--let's figure this one out!

[Jeff Mando]

more pics, please.

[adria1191]

Here are some more pics-probably the best that I can get. The music books in the case I thought were Ukrainian are actually in cyrillic-Russian? One is dated 1936.

[Jeff Mando]

The music books probably reflect the heritage or interest of the original owner, but the mandolin is USA made. Case is USA. The tuners are Waverly units from the 20's-30's. The quality of the wood looks a lot like a Gibson A-2, if not for the wood marquetry binding/rosette and lack of truss rod. Most of the Chicago stuff didn't use wood this nice. (I say most, because Regal did, in fact, have a custom shop and did produce professional grade instruments, such as 18 inch body archtop guitars like the Regal Prince, which would rival the nicest Gibson.)

[brunello97]

If that instrument was imported it was imported from the American midwest. ......

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

This does look similar.

[mclaugh]

If you're interested in the music, Russian and Ukrainian use slightly different Cyrillic alphabets, and the piece you pictured says 'Ukrainian'. Also, CPIBANN(I)K = spivannik = hymnal, which I found here:
http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/spirit/songs.htm

Nice looking instrument.

[adria1191]

I might need to learn how to play it. I'm more of a piano player. Tried guitar once and could not stand the pain in my fingers. Hubby is a guitar player. Is the mandolin similar to guitar when you first start out? I'm guessing it may be similar to the Croatian tamburica which he can also play.

[MikeEdgerton]

Inverting the colors on the label closeup brings out a few more letters but none of them seem to help. The Wm. R. Gratz import company might have been a distributor by the 1930's and not just selling imported instruments. There's some history on that company and the WRG might be them. That doesn't get us any closer to a builder, we can already assume it was made for the trade.

[tkdboyd]

Sure is a nice looking instrument. Been played a lot too, those frets will need some work. Worn frets usually a pretty good sign that someone enjoyed the instrument!

Would love to hear when restrung and setup.

[pfox14]

I am stumped. It's obviously a quality instrument, but I have no idea who made it. It is definitely none of the usual suspects like Epiphone, Gretsch, Slingerland, any of the Chicago makers, so I really don't know. A real head-scratcher.

[mrmando]

Maybe a retopped May Bell?

[bingoccc]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to divert things with talk of an import company. I don't think it's from overseas, I just thought they may have become a distributor. I do thinks it's American. If the OP can access a real UV light (not a normal bulb with a purple filter), the ink may have a greater flourescence than the paper and old, faded ink may show up a little better. Whatever the label says it may help.