Any Advice For Beginner Who Wants To Jam?

[mttmiller14]

Hello All You Mando Players,

I just got inspired to pick up my mandolin recently after a long time of it gathering dust. I want to jam with my roommate (guitar) but don't really know how. I can solo over his rhythm but that gets old after a bit. I just looked up Aminor Pentatonic scale and he played in the key of C...it didn't sound great but that's what we used to do when we would jam with 2 guitars. I know some chords but me just playing the same chords at the same time as him doesn't sound very good.

Does anybody have any advice for what I can do? Like maybe little runs between chords or double stops or something? I don't really know how to do either of those things and I don't know if they would even sound good. Our end goal is to play some dispatch songs as a guitar mandolin combo but I don't really know how to achieve this. I feel like learning to jam might help me get there and help me get a better idea of how to make the music combine well.

Any advice for him would be appreciated too. We're used to just jamming on 2 guitars and I don't know how he's supposed to be playing if it's different at all

Thanks guys and gals!

[Mandobart]

Playing on a regular basis with other people in a fun and supportive environment is the single thing that made the greatest difference for my mandolin playing. I encourage you to find jams in your area that are fun and supportive (not all are...). I live in a small community and have the opportunity to attend 10 such jams each month; and I would if it weren't for that having to support my family thing. This is the number one thing that will improve your playing the most, and the quickest.

Yes you do need to learn the chords. Learning chord structure enhances your ability to play arpeggios, harmonies, etc. Its part of theory and not near as scary as it sounds. The neat thing about 5ths tuned instruments is the use of moveable shapes (moving up and across the fretboard yields predictable chords). You "just playing the same chords at the same time as him doesn't sound very good" if you are playing the same chords and the same rhythm, same picking method, etc. Because your instrument's range is an octave above his, there already is a cool sound; it would be even worse if you were just playing the same chords at the same time as him on a guitar.

Last pick some tunes that feature guitar and mando; there are tons out there. Find a few you like and see how they do it. I'm thinking a lot of David Grisman and Jerry Garcia (no one starting out is going to sound like the Dawg, but they are a great example of a duo like yours). Listen to pick up ideas on how to make it sound more interesting.

[SincereCorgi]

I don't think you've gotten many replies because you're asking some really big questions, like 'how to improvise' and 'how to connect chords'. I would get a book like 'Mandolin for Dummies' and start working through it just to get a good basic sense of a lot of mandolin topics, and, like Bart said, keep playing with your friend. There's no special set of rules for how a mandolin and a guitar have to get along, but it will take some experimentation to figure out what sounds good to you. Usually it comes down to staying out of each other's way and supporting the other guy rhythmically.

[Mandoplumb]

Solo over his rhythm is what it's all about, I don't understand why that is boring unless your solos are very simplistic. In that case you need to work on solos, listen to other mandolin players in your style of music, or for that matter any lead instrument to get a feel for fills. That is pure ' by ear" everything you learn about theory and chord shapes and progressions make it easier.

[Tobin]

Mandolin and guitar make a very good pair. But yeah, jamming is going to be boring if neither of you know what role to fill.

What kind of music are you playing? You mentioned "dispatch songs". I don't know what that is.

In bluegrassy-type stuff (or similar related genres) typically the mandolin and guitar would take turns playing the melody or improvising around the melody while the other is playing rhythm. For guitar, chords are the rhythm with some walking up or down in between. Mandolin excels at playing chop chords as a percussive rhythm over a chord. But you can experiment with playing open, ringing chords as well. Depends on what suits the music and your style.

You gotta know a lot of tunes. And be able to go back and forth, put them together in medleys, etc.

We mere mortals cannot play mandolin this well, and most guitar players can't either, but Chris Thile and Michael Daves are a heck of an inspiration on what you can do with a mandolin-guitar pairing.

[samlyman]

Patience, fortitude, and a willingness to work very hard. There are no shortcuts - play with as many people as you can, with YouTube videos, and CDs and in a few years you'll be tearing it up. In all things the 10,000 rule applies....

[jshane]

SincereCorgi is right-- you are asking a very big question---one that encompasses almost everything---- kinda like, "How high is up?".

Rather than answer with specific musical theory or technique, how about this--

If your friend was playing the guitar, could you sing/hum/whistle along making up pleasing sounds as you go? If so, then my suggestion is to strive to PLAY the same pleasing sounds that you are singing/humming/whistling--- and learn the theory/technique necessary to do this, over time, as you go. If you CANT create interesting sounds in your head that you can sing/hum/whistle, I guess I suggest putting on some favorite music on the soundbox, and letting your mind go until it comes. THEN strive to play these sounds.

There is a song that Sam Bush plays with the line: "Spirit is the journey, body is the bus. I am the driver, from dust to dust". In this case, "Music is the journey, mando is the bus, YOU are the driver......etc etc".

Good luck and have fun.

[JeffD]

What might be fun to play some simple straight forward blues progressions, and trade off melody and chords back and forth.

[farmerjones]

I think I understand the question, "how do you jam?"
This is how: If the persons are not familiar with Bluegrass, and many are not, the best thing to do, is each come up with a list of songs/tunes each knows. Could be a just a mental list, could be written. But the thing is, you really need to know the song/tune well enough to teach it to somebody else. Use that as a benchmark. Hopefully, your list and the other person's have some of the same song/tunes. Those are the one's you can start with quickly. Trading off chord and melody parts. If you run out of those song/tunes, you either have to learn from the others or teach the others. This is decided buy how skilled each of you is to picking up a song/tune cold.

How one quickly picks up tunes cold is another question. Find the key. Find the chord progression, Extract a melody.

[Grommet]

That cover of Rolly Polly just smokes!! Hmmm...mebey if I hold my pick a little different....naahh!!

Scott

[Grommet]

Forked Deer/Big Sciota...whoooeee! Think if I could get my hands on that Schmergel Devastator and dip my pick in some.....naahhh!

Scott

[Grommet]

Kidding aside, the clips selected by Sincere Corgi and Tobin really illustrate the practiced non-verbal communication that develops over time between two musicians who know each others styles well (and also dynamite picking by all). In jamming with friends or at a regular community jam session elements of the same communication at work, but it takes a little time to grow atuned to it. Good steady rhythm, rhythm with a little bass line, fills and little breaks are the building blocks. When they are second nature, then let the communication begin.

Scott

[EdSherry]

If you're already used to jamming on two guitars, jamming on mando/guitar is not appreciably different. Typically the players swap off on the lead and the rhythm parts. Double stops are a fun way to play rhythm on a mando; you don't need to play full chords. You'll need to learn the chord progression to the tune you're working on, and the chords you need to play, and scales/arpeggios in the right key. Jamming on 12-bar blues is a staple of many jam sessions.

[Pasha Alden]

You say you not OK with double stops and little runs and licks? The best is also for you to practice the things you would like to add to your jam sessions: like double stops. Then start adding them. Sometimes taking parts of those pentatonic scales, changing the pattern can also help. Also try and work on improvisation.

[doc holiday]

This thread has got some cool comments & examples. ( BTW farmerjones....there is no mention of bluegrass in the OP post). Sincerecorgi you really hit the nail on the head with the big questions. OP...'what to play' is a big question. The 3 videos show great musicians playing commonly known tunes. When you're 'jamming' on guitars...are you playing common tunes or are you simply noodling at the same time? The commonality in Bluegrass & Old Time playing is that people playing together are playing from a collection of known tunes. The same is true of jazz...whether its Joe Pass playing "Cherokee" or Bil Frisell playing "Shenandoah," the tune is identifiable....they're not just playing some scale over chord changes. If you know tunes on the guitar, try to figure them out on the mandolin...play the melody....otherwise jamming can get frustrating pretty quickly.

[farmerjones]

I could see how one would confuse what I was referring to. I could have not mentioned Bluegrass at all and been better off. As most know, where the rubber meets the road is where two or more peoples repertoire converge. Bluegrass being what it is, is a sort of repertoire of it's own. IF and only if two or more people who intended to jam, were into Bluegrass, the repertoire would be, to a large percentage, established. Otherwise strangers have to compare repertoires and see what songs/tunes they have in common, these being the more immediate songs/tunes the two or more could jam on.

Where there is no common ground, one has to learn from the other(s). It definitely helps to be quick on the uptake. But alas, how one becomes quick on the uptake, is from much jamming. A conundrum.

mttmiller14 - has your question been answered?

[mttmiller14]

Yes!

This has all been extremely helpful. Unfortunately I haven't really had a chance to try anything out yet seeing as we have both been busy, me with school, him with work.

I have some great tips that I can't wait to work on to improve our jam sessions.

And I do want to play in a bluegrass sort of fashion and mess around with some bluegrass tunes. Any suggestions on good ones to start with?

Thank you everybody!

[PaulBills]

Going back to your original question, I jam with a guitarist and a double bass player. I started off with playing the chords in a song, but follow the bass player to add to the rhythm, then for lead breaks I have a rough idea of what the original song sounds like and aim for that (I get fairly close to the original, but not identical) - the main thing is to enjoy it, and if your jam partner(s) are supportive, they won't mind the mistakes, because you're all learning the song together.

Mind, we do Rock n Roll, things like 'Don't Stop' by Fleetwood Mac, Dirty Ol' Town (3 key changes in that), last week we started on 'Sweet Home Chicago' and this week we're doing Jailhouse Rock (I'll be aiming for the Queen Live at The Rainbow 1974 version)

So basically, enjoy yourself and the choons will all come together :D