the all mighty chop.

[op23]

I went to a bluegrass meetup yesterday and I found myself very under prepeaired. I've been playing for a little over a year now and the most difficult thing for me has always been chop choards. They would list off a choard and I know a few ways to make choards but not chop choards. Ex. Okay this song is A then D then A then E then A. I found myself just doing the standard barre choard and moving up and down the neck. Where can I find a list of chop choards to practice and better yet, understand how to make my own.

Also there was an older player there who I noticed only used three finger chop choards. Same placement for G and C as standard chop choards but left out his pinky. I thought you shouldn't do that, or is that kind of an in between until you can do 4 finger chord's

[Mandoplumb]

Chop chords are overrated. The mandolin is the " drums" of a bluegrass band so a chop is needed but who said it should be only one shape and one position? I know Bill did it that way but did he? I hear a variety of back up chords in his playing, more so in the early years. A good chop can be had with 3 fingers, and sometimes with 2. There's not much simularities between Jethroe Burns and me, but one is being totally bored holding one chord shape and chopping only on the off beat.

[9lbShellhamer]

The standard chop chord used in bluegrass-

STRINGS

G-D-A-E

(G Chop)
7-5-3-2

(D Chop)
7-4-5-2

(C Chop)
5-2-3-x

These chords are only the "starting point" for chop positions, but they open up a whole new world to rhythm on Mando. Slide the C chop up 2 frets and you have a pinky-less D chop with three fingers, slide the G chop up and play in the key of A. The beauty of the mandolin is in its fifths tuning, and using these closed position chords opens a world of possibilities.

When I started I thought I'd never be able to do that dang D chop chord, but after about 6 months of practice, i found myself ripping along with some favorite tunes. Stick with it. You WILL get it!

[LongBlackVeil]

You can play all your life and never use a 4 finger chop chord if you want. Just work on it at home and eventually youll get it, but dont feel pressured, its not absolutely necessary

[DavidKOS]

Thanbks for explaining what "chop" chords - something I've heard about in Bluegrass but never have had defined.

So they are backbeat accent chords usually played with no open strings?

[Tobin]

When I started I thought I'd never be able to do that dang D chop chord, but after about 6 months of practice, i found myself ripping along with some favorite tunes. Stick with it. You WILL get it!

I struggled for a long time with the 4-finger D chop chord too. Eventually I decided that it was a waste of my time, because even when I got it right, I couldn't stand the sound of playing the E string. It kind of ruins the sound of a good chop chord for me (like adding a cymbal over a typical drum beat). I like the bassier muted sound I get from the G and D strings, with the A string being played with the chop only as a courtesy. The E string just makes it too bright for my tastes. So I typically just use the 3-finger C chop chord shape and slide it up for a D chop.

I still use the 7523 shape for the G-chop (and 9745 for A), but I don't play the E string on those either. I know I ought to go back and try to get the 7452 D-chop shape down, just out of a sense of general principle, but I can't see myself ever using it.

[bayAreaDude]

I rarely bother with 4 finger chords and instead use 3 finger moveable patterns. Playing with others I really don't think anyone can hear the difference and I've also recorded myself with bass and rhythm guitar and I can't tell the difference myself. Much more important for me is quick clean changes and the flexibility and coverage of the fretboard the moveable shapes give you. And how easy it is to alter those shapes and have this massive chord vocabulary.

[John Adrihan]

And when exactly did chopping become so prevalent in bluegrass? Early Monroe did not chop alot, played alot of notes and tremolo from what I can hear.

[Mike Bunting]

Monroe would chop in the beginning when didn't have a strong rhythm guitar man, otherwise he'd do what the previous post described. He would always mix it up.

[DavidKOS]

Does anyone use the closed D chord 2455 ( A F# D A) for chop chords or is it always the 7452 ( D F# D F#) inversion?
or the 2452 (A F# D F#) inversion?

[DavidKOS]

And when exactly did chopping become so prevalent in bluegrass? Early Monroe did not chop alot, played alot of notes and tremolo from what I can hear.

He sure seemed to mix it up but always had a very strong rhythm. Later players seem to have focused on the chop.

[LongBlackVeil]

And when exactly did chopping become so prevalent in bluegrass? Early Monroe did not chop alot, played alot of notes and tremolo from what I can hear.

I'm under the impression that monroe invented the chop, or at least is the first person known to do it. And early monroe isn't considered to be bluegrass by a lot of people. Many people (including myself) would say bluegrass wasn't invented until Earl joined the band and incorporated the three finger style. By then Bill was chopping

[SincereCorgi]

Monroe would chop in the beginning when didn't have a strong rhythm guitar man, otherwise he'd do what the previous post described. He would always mix it up.

That's interesting. I've been reading a book about Django Reinhardt's approach to rhythm, and he liked having two strong rhythm guitars behind him when he soloed because it let one pump the rhythm while the other could tremolo and add accents and otherwise drive the beat, similar to Monroe.

[Tobin]

Does anyone use the closed D chord 2455 ( A F# D A) for chop chords or is it always the 7452 ( D F# D F#) inversion?
or the 2452 (A F# D F#) inversion?

It's not always 7452. Some have been known to chop the D chord using 7-7-9-10 (basically the 2245 A shape, moved up). Then moving it up again to the 9-9-11-12 position for an E. These can be attractive shapes for chop chords because the two most bass notes are I and IV - and these are the ones that really get the 'punch' of the chop chord going. They're easy to turn into minor chords, unlike the standard chop shape. And since they use more frets up the neck, they're "tighter" chords, meaning that they are easier to be percussive because it's a shorter string length being played.

[DavidKOS]

It's not always 7452. Some have been known to chop the D chord using 7-7-9-10 (basically the 2245 A shape, moved up). Then moving it up again to the 9-9-11-12 position for an E. These can be attractive shapes for chop chords because the two most bass notes are I and IV - and these are the ones that really get the 'punch' of the chop chord going. They're easy to turn into minor chords, unlike the standard chop shape. And since they use more frets up the neck, they're "tighter" chords, meaning that they are easier to be percussive because it's a shorter string length being played.

Good, because I use those chord shapes all the time.

I was getting the impression only certain shapes were used for the "chop".

And, the comment about Django and the rhythm guitar players and "le pompe" are correct as far as I know.

[Mickey King]

Roland White's approach to the chop.

[DavidKOS]

Roland White's approach to the chop. http://youtu.be/OO-4FIRjgXw

He likes 455, eh? that's part of the 4553 G chord, BGDG.

A very useful shape based on the open E chord, and easy to turn to minor - 355.

[AlanN]

One can chop anything. I chop 2-0-0-2. I love the chop.

[ianbarton]

I feel like one good way to learn about how to construct your own chop chords would be to learn the arpeggios for the chords you are wanting chops for. And more specifically dont just focus on first position, but explore the rest of the fretboard as well (may not be the most fun practice, but useful for sure, because it will help improvising skills too). once you know where the notes are on the fretboard contained in each chord, you can combine any youd like to form your own chop chords as long as it contains the 1,3,5.

This sort of just dawned on me after lots of reading on this site and some dips into theory. I plan on diving into this soon.

[Tobin]

once you know where the notes are on the fretboard contained in each chord, you can combine any youd like to form your own chop chords as long as it contains the 1,3,5.

The cool thing about chop chords is that they don't even really need the 3. Last winter at an acoustic camp, Steve Smith enlightened me on the joys of just using 1 and 5 for a groovy sound. For instance, a G chop sounds great as 755X, played with only two fingers, and it puts you in an excellent position for closed position improvising up the neck (starting at the 5th fret on the D string).

[Mike Bunting]

The cool thing about chop chords is that they don't even really need the 3. Last winter at an acoustic camp, Steve Smith enlightened me on the joys of just using 1 and 5 for a groovy sound. For instance, a G chop sounds great as 755X, played with only two fingers, and it puts you in an excellent position for closed position improvising up the neck (starting at the 5th fret on the D string).

I don't even bother with the high D sometimes.

[DavidKOS]

So it's really just Bluegrass chord comping, it's the beat that really counts?

[SGraham]

You wouldn't chop all the way through a song. You want to listen to what the other players are doing. If the banjo is chopping, you should be doing single note or double stop stuff. If he's doing a roll, you probably want to be chopping. All the musicians playing behind someone who is soloing or singing, need to listen to each other and NOT do what someone else is doing. What you do depends on what others are doing.

[LongBlackVeil]

You wouldn't chop all the way through a song. You want to listen to what the other players are doing. If the banjo is chopping, you should be doing single note or double stop stuff. If he's doing a roll, you probably want to be chopping. All the musicians playing behind someone who is soloing or singing, need to listen to each other and NOT do what someone else is doing. What you do depends on what others are doing.

So if I'm chopping the whole time everybody else should just do something else

It's a joke but I think it has some truth, for me at least. The mandolin is the primary chopper, if both the banjo and mandolin are chopping, the banjo should stop and the mandolin should continue.of course, if the banjo or fiddle doesn't take the hint, it's appropriate do do some single note stuff so as to better serve the music.

I chop most of the time that I'm not soloing except for waltzs or slower tunes. That's just my approach. I think the banjo and fiddle should only chop when the mandolin is soloing

[JeffD]

The mandolin is the primary chopper, if both the banjo and mandolin are chopping, the banjo should stop and the mandolin should continue.of course, if the banjo or fiddle doesn't take the hint, it's appropriate do do some single note stuff so as to better serve the music.

I am not sure I get you. In bluegrass I don't think its ever appropriate for the mandolin to do any single note stuff unless taking a break.

There are other rhythm backup thingies besides chopping. But not playing single note stuff.

I chop most of the time that I'm not soloing except for waltzs or slower tunes. That's just my approach. I think the banjo and fiddle should only chop when the mandolin is soloing

That sounds right.

Of course I am not predominantly a bluegrasser, and when I do play bluegrass its a very informal jam, not a performance. But this is my understanding.

I use three finger chop chords mostly, and usually the configuration covering the G, D and A strings. Gives me the best woof for my stroke.